1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: This is the warning. I'm Steve Schmidt today. I am 2 00:00:04,320 --> 00:00:08,280 Speaker 1: thrilled to be joined by Katherine Stewart, the journalist and 3 00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 1: the author of the new book Money Lies and God. Catherine. 4 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:17,560 Speaker 2: Welcome, it's great to be here. Thanks so much for 5 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:18,040 Speaker 2: having me. 6 00:00:19,079 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: My first question that I have when you read this book, 7 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:32,440 Speaker 1: and I know you you are incredibly smart, capable, there 8 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:39,600 Speaker 1: are a million things that you could write about that 9 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 1: you could devote your attention to. Manifestly, there are injustices 10 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:55,360 Speaker 1: all over the world, there are threats all over the world. 11 00:00:56,160 --> 00:01:03,280 Speaker 1: But you have applied your very foreign, formidable intellect, your 12 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:13,640 Speaker 1: creative energy, your work to writing three books about a 13 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:24,919 Speaker 1: very specific subject. Why have you written three books about 14 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:26,320 Speaker 1: Christian nationalism? 15 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:31,720 Speaker 2: I started writing on this topic sixteen years ago when 16 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:40,840 Speaker 2: Fundamentalist Bible Club installed itself from my daughter's public elementary 17 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 2: school in Santa Barbara, California, And right from the start 18 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:49,600 Speaker 2: it was very clear to me that this group was 19 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:52,560 Speaker 2: much more than it appeared to be. They called themselves 20 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 2: Bible Study from a non denominational standpoint. They said they 21 00:01:56,240 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 2: just wanted to help the kids, but they were inculcating 22 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 2: very little children in their public schools with the idea 23 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 2: that if they didn't go to they didn't believe in 24 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 2: the right kind of right version of the Christian religion, 25 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:14,720 Speaker 2: if they didn't believe in Jesus, they were going to 26 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:18,480 Speaker 2: go to Hell. And they were like deceiving these very 27 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 2: little kids into thinking that their public elementary school endorsed 28 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:27,280 Speaker 2: a very reactionary form of the Christian faith. Public schools 29 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:29,680 Speaker 2: have a cloak of authority in the minds of very 30 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 2: young kids, especially, they think if it's happening in their 31 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 2: public school, it must be what their public school wants 32 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:39,360 Speaker 2: them to believe. So I was really astonished to discover 33 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:44,639 Speaker 2: that these clubs were legal and constitutional in our public schools, 34 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 2: given the constitutional principle of church state separation. And I 35 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 2: could see how divisive these clubs were. They were targeting 36 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:57,120 Speaker 2: kids who were too young to read and giving them 37 00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:01,240 Speaker 2: candy or prizes for recruiting their to the club. So 38 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:05,920 Speaker 2: they were incredibly divisive. They were taking this formerly harmonious 39 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:08,919 Speaker 2: public school community where kids are learning to get along 40 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:12,640 Speaker 2: with kids who are different, you know, have different backgrounds, 41 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:17,400 Speaker 2: different ethnic backgrounds, and they were dividing, teaching the kids 42 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:21,840 Speaker 2: to divide one another into the pure versus the impure. 43 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:25,040 Speaker 2: You're an insider. You're an outsider. The kids would say, 44 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:26,760 Speaker 2: I know it must be true because they taught it 45 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 2: to me in school. 46 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:31,919 Speaker 1: Can I ask one quick question not to derail you. Yeah, 47 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 1: how many parents are we talking about that brought this 48 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:39,120 Speaker 1: into the school? And right? I mean it doesn't just 49 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:45,720 Speaker 1: spontaneously combust. So it's a group of two people, one person, 50 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 1: three people, seven people. How does this present? 51 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 2: Well? The interesting thing is these clubs, they call them clubs, 52 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 2: their programs. They are run by a national program called 53 00:03:57,640 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 2: the Child Evangelism Fellowship. It's the people who came to 54 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 2: our school were not parents. They're from outside the community, 55 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 2: and members of our community didn't want them, including the 56 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:13,120 Speaker 2: evangelical parents at our school, who offered them free and 57 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:17,480 Speaker 2: better space in the church literally next door to the school. 58 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:21,839 Speaker 2: Montecito Covenant Church is an absolutely beautiful church. And the 59 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:25,920 Speaker 2: Good News club leaders declined. This all really kind of 60 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:29,360 Speaker 2: astonished me, and I thought, how is it legal? Impossible? 61 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:33,440 Speaker 2: I started researching the legal strategy. 62 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:37,679 Speaker 1: I have one more predicate question as we get deeper 63 00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:40,720 Speaker 1: into this, but I just want to ask, right, and so, 64 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 1: for all the people that are watching this that have 65 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 1: had the experience of traveling a lot. You and I 66 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:50,800 Speaker 1: both travel a lot. There is that moment in the 67 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 1: hotel room of modern society where you walk around thinking 68 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:02,040 Speaker 1: to yourself, where fuck is the plug? Right? Where can 69 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:06,280 Speaker 1: I pluge something in? Where do these people who are 70 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:13,280 Speaker 1: from outside the district right, who are not parents? I 71 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:18,040 Speaker 1: imagine them holding a cord? Where are they plugging into? 72 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 1: Where do they make first contact in the Santa Barbara 73 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:25,479 Speaker 1: school day? Is it at a principal level, is it 74 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:30,040 Speaker 1: at a board level? How do they reach the frontier? 75 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:34,640 Speaker 2: They send a letter with legal backing from groups like 76 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:39,960 Speaker 2: the Alliance Defending Freedom and Liberty Council, which says essentially, 77 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 2: you need to let us in or we're going to 78 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 2: launch a lawsuit because and what I could see is 79 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:52,280 Speaker 2: that these legal advocacy groups were reframing the First Amendment 80 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:56,760 Speaker 2: of religious freedom to count as nothing more than speech 81 00:05:56,800 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 2: from a certain point of view. So these kinds of 82 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:03,640 Speaker 2: clubs had been excluded from public element talking really little 83 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:07,160 Speaker 2: kids here, they'd been excluded from the public elementary schools 84 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 2: for years because there are adult led clubs, not student led. 85 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 2: It's not like the Fellowship for Christian athletes, which happens 86 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 2: at the high school level and is led by students. 87 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:21,280 Speaker 2: Sustensibly we're talking really little kids. But they mounted a 88 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:25,480 Speaker 2: legal strategy to reframe the idea of religion as speech 89 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:28,360 Speaker 2: from a certain point of view and then force these 90 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 2: programs into thousands of public elementary schools nationwide. And once 91 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:36,719 Speaker 2: I recognized the legal strategy, the perversion of what I 92 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:40,120 Speaker 2: could see as not just the religion clauses of the 93 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:42,600 Speaker 2: First Amendment, but also the free speech clause of the 94 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 2: First Amendment. And I recognized that the legal advocacy sphere 95 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:51,279 Speaker 2: of the religious right was putting into place over time, 96 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 2: these novel legal building blocks, bringing just the right cases 97 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:59,839 Speaker 2: to the right circuit courts to get this big win. 98 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:04,160 Speaker 2: I could see that they were aiming to destroy our democracy. 99 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:06,960 Speaker 2: It was as clear to me as day back sixteen 100 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 2: years ago, and I thought, Wow, if they follow this 101 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:16,000 Speaker 2: strategy to its logical conclusion, they are really going to 102 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 2: try to take down our democracy. I also started really 103 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 2: digging into the ideas behind the organization, the Child Evangelism Fellowship. 104 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 2: This is a group that was incredibly hostile to the 105 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 2: institution of public education, because public schools are rooted in 106 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:39,880 Speaker 2: the principles of equality, and pluralism. They're supposed to know, 107 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:44,800 Speaker 2: neither affirm nor detegrate any particular religious viewpoint because they 108 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 2: have to be comfortable and open for all families. And 109 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:53,320 Speaker 2: they were exploiting this public schools in order to eventually 110 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 2: destroy public schools. I went to their national convention. That 111 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 2: was one of the first things I did, and I 112 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:07,560 Speaker 2: heard speakers say things like, any education that's not rooted 113 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:11,120 Speaker 2: in our faith is, you know, a consequence of evil. 114 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:16,880 Speaker 2: I also saw speakers were basically talking about you know, 115 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:20,560 Speaker 2: they were very very anti pluralism, but they were also 116 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 2: you know, Young Earth creationists. They were deeply, deeply fundamentalists. 117 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 2: They they talk about children as strategic machinery for taking 118 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:34,440 Speaker 2: back the culture. 119 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 1: You know. 120 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:37,640 Speaker 2: They said, you know, one one speaker said, if you 121 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:40,480 Speaker 2: want to you want to change the direction of the 122 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:43,080 Speaker 2: cruise ship, you've got to go after those kids. It's 123 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 2: the most strategic age group we have. They spoke of 124 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:49,839 Speaker 2: our public schools as mission fields and our children as 125 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:54,360 Speaker 2: the harvest. And they also hated public education. They would say, 126 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:57,040 Speaker 2: kick down the doors of the public schools. Are knocked down, 127 00:08:57,640 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 2: all doors and all barriers to those public K through twelve. 128 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 2: Take the gospel to this open mission field now, and 129 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:11,120 Speaker 2: so it's really clear to me. I looked into this organization, 130 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:14,200 Speaker 2: I looked into their linkages there, and I could see 131 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:18,080 Speaker 2: that they were really part of a deep organizational infrastructure 132 00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:21,760 Speaker 2: of the Christian nationalist movement. They weren't just aiming for 133 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:24,520 Speaker 2: a seat at the table. They weren't just aiming to 134 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 2: you know, we just want our voices heard in the 135 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 2: noisy form of American democracy. We just want to be 136 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:33,719 Speaker 2: treated like everyone else, which is what they said. They 137 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:37,040 Speaker 2: really wanted to take over. And I recognized that the 138 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:40,720 Speaker 2: hostility to public education ran so deep, I mean, and 139 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 2: Jerry Folwell laid the agenda out in nineteen seventy nine. 140 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:46,319 Speaker 2: He said, I hope to see the day when there 141 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:49,439 Speaker 2: are no more public schools. Churches will have taken them 142 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:52,360 Speaker 2: over and Christians will be running them. So this is 143 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:55,199 Speaker 2: the sort of long story about how I fell down 144 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 2: into this world, and my newest book, Money Lies in 145 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:03,320 Speaker 2: God inside the movement to destroy American democracy really is 146 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:08,120 Speaker 2: a big picture. Look, you know, my first book was 147 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:11,560 Speaker 2: really about the war on public education is part of 148 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 2: a larger attack on modern constitutional democracy. My second book 149 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:20,560 Speaker 2: took a deeper look at the Christian nationalist movement and 150 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:24,760 Speaker 2: its infrastructure and money lies in God is even I 151 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:29,160 Speaker 2: would say bigger level. I pay very close attention to 152 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:31,920 Speaker 2: the money people, the people funding this movement. There are 153 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:37,319 Speaker 2: billions of dollars billions that have been invested over decades, 154 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:42,559 Speaker 2: I mean many billions to destroy democracy. I look at 155 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:47,160 Speaker 2: lies or disinformation, which is a huge piece of the story. 156 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 2: I mean, Steve, you probably know what percentage of Americans 157 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:54,880 Speaker 2: have been completely separated from the facts and led to 158 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 2: believe this sort of QAnon conspiracy and this idea that 159 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:03,120 Speaker 2: you know, anyone to the left of the MAGA agenda 160 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:06,720 Speaker 2: is a woke communist or whatever. And then of course God, 161 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:11,280 Speaker 2: because Christian Nationalism, I would say, is the largest, like 162 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:15,400 Speaker 2: most important ideological framework for the largest part of this movement. 163 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 1: Before we get into the newest book, I want to 164 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:25,040 Speaker 1: keep at this foundational level as people think about this 165 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:31,280 Speaker 1: and we move deeper into a discussion about the brave 166 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 1: danger that this that this philosophy presents. And I want 167 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 1: to take people into decision making at a local school 168 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:47,520 Speaker 1: district where there's a lot of good intention people, including 169 00:11:47,559 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 1: the lawyer with the school district, and I have a 170 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 1: very specific sometimes where I have I'm anti lawyer, believe me. 171 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:04,800 Speaker 1: Where generally where a letter comes in and a threat 172 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:10,160 Speaker 1: is made, and somebody's going to take the letter, the attorney, 173 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:13,440 Speaker 1: and they're going to bring it to an elected board, 174 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:20,440 Speaker 1: usually superintendent, somebody with authority who has a tight budget, 175 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:27,120 Speaker 1: and nine times out of ten, the answer will be 176 00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:34,040 Speaker 1: let them in avoid the fight. Now, let's pretend in 177 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:39,880 Speaker 1: a world that I'm the superintendent and I get the 178 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 1: letter and my instructions to the attorney are absolutely not. 179 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:51,280 Speaker 1: I will litigate this to the Supreme Court of the 180 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:57,200 Speaker 1: United States. And so the First Amendment issue freedom of 181 00:12:57,240 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 1: religion and the appreciation that you know in the constellation 182 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:08,080 Speaker 1: of ideas in all of the history of the world, 183 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:16,400 Speaker 1: good ones to really bad ones, genius ones, the crazy ones. 184 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 1: The greatest idea in world's history, maybe it's certainly no 185 00:13:24,559 --> 00:13:28,960 Speaker 1: lower than top three is the separation of church and state. 186 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:40,199 Speaker 1: So has anybody opposed on a legal basis the intrusion 187 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:47,120 Speaker 1: of these groups into a school district and been successful 188 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:54,960 Speaker 1: at keeping them out using the First Amendment saying no way, 189 00:13:55,920 --> 00:14:02,600 Speaker 1: or has has the legal regime completely now open the 190 00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:07,760 Speaker 1: gates too, They're in the public school systems everywhere all 191 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:08,280 Speaker 1: at once. 192 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:13,080 Speaker 2: Suddenly, you know, the right wing legal sphere has invested 193 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:18,400 Speaker 2: so much money in taking the courts. Somebody like Leonard Leo, 194 00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:23,720 Speaker 2: who you're very familiar with, recognized years ago that he 195 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 2: wasn't going to be able to get the policies he 196 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:31,480 Speaker 2: wanted to pass if it all went to a you know, 197 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:36,520 Speaker 2: public vote, because he wanted to impose his religious values 198 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 2: and his frankly right wing ideological values on American society, 199 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 2: and a lot of these ideas are deeply unpopular. So 200 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:47,160 Speaker 2: he understood that if you can get the courts, you 201 00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 2: can get the country. And all theocracies do that, whether 202 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:55,600 Speaker 2: we're talking about Iran or if we're talking about certainly Russia, 203 00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:58,680 Speaker 2: you know, which I wouldn't sort of sort of see 204 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 2: it's a more of a kleptocracy with theocratic features. But 205 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:06,440 Speaker 2: this is what sort of more theocratic regimes do, or 206 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:11,960 Speaker 2: autocratic regimes with theocratic features do. They take over the courts. 207 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:15,400 Speaker 2: And that's something the right wing legal sphere started to 208 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:18,760 Speaker 2: do quite some time ago. They started investing in these 209 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:22,920 Speaker 2: organizations like the Alliance Defending Freedom, of the Federalist Society 210 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:28,440 Speaker 2: and the Liberty Council, and so the right wing legal 211 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 2: sphere got this big win for speaking about this particular organization, 212 00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:37,360 Speaker 2: specifically in two thousand and one where they ran the 213 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:42,680 Speaker 2: case in a public school that went up to grade twelve. 214 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 2: And now all of a sudden, they're applying it to 215 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:48,960 Speaker 2: public schools that go off to grade five. So initially 216 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:51,760 Speaker 2: they ran it, and you know, it's like very different kids. 217 00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:55,320 Speaker 2: You know, you're talking kids who are like six years old. 218 00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:58,160 Speaker 2: You know, they were targeting children literally who are too 219 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:01,960 Speaker 2: young to read with that have no words, just pictures 220 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:06,040 Speaker 2: and shapes, and kids who are in the high school 221 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:10,320 Speaker 2: level are very different developmentally. But you know, without getting 222 00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:14,200 Speaker 2: to the weeds about this, you were talking about ideas, 223 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:17,320 Speaker 2: and this is broadly speaking, and I could see it 224 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:21,440 Speaker 2: right away that this is a movement that fundamentally doesn't 225 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:26,640 Speaker 2: believe in the idea of America. They have the idea 226 00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:31,760 Speaker 2: that America is founded not on any principles, but on 227 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:36,400 Speaker 2: a specific religion and cultural heritage. They have the idea 228 00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:39,760 Speaker 2: that America is on the brink of an apocalypse owing 229 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 2: to the rise of equality and pluralism. And what they call, 230 00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:48,240 Speaker 2: you know, the radical left, which is anyone remotely to 231 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 2: the left of them who actually believes in democracy, which 232 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:54,800 Speaker 2: by the way, includes a lot of Republicans and moderate Republicans. 233 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:59,720 Speaker 2: They have this idea that democracy itself won't solve their problems, 234 00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:03,880 Speaker 2: won't bring about the changes that they want, They won't 235 00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 2: be able to impose, they won't be able to impose 236 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:11,080 Speaker 2: their values with a true democracy, and so they say 237 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 2: the rules don't really apply anymore, and that clears a 238 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:18,520 Speaker 2: way for this idea of putting their faith in a 239 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:22,520 Speaker 2: strong man right, an authoritarian leader who puts himself above 240 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 2: the law, who's going to seize the reins of power 241 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:28,000 Speaker 2: and scrap the rule of law in favor of an 242 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:31,480 Speaker 2: iron fist. And I could see right away that they 243 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:34,680 Speaker 2: have this idea of the government. It's not just separated 244 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:37,479 Speaker 2: from church and stay is very important, but this idea 245 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:41,879 Speaker 2: of the government as representative of the people and respecting 246 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:46,480 Speaker 2: individual rights in a pluralistic society. They really have the 247 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:49,760 Speaker 2: sense that this kind of government isn't what they want, 248 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:52,440 Speaker 2: so they want to sort of smash it up and 249 00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:58,879 Speaker 2: create something new, which is an autocracy. And this was 250 00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:02,160 Speaker 2: clear to me from the very beginning. At the time. 251 00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:06,840 Speaker 2: Of course, we're talking twenty sixteen, the big story in 252 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:10,240 Speaker 2: religion journalism was the rise of the so called nuns. 253 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:14,320 Speaker 2: I remember who was there was a George Bush speech 254 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:16,880 Speaker 2: writer who said, this is a movement that could fit 255 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:21,320 Speaker 2: into a phone booth. You have to be wilfully ignorant 256 00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:26,240 Speaker 2: to not recognize that they were developing a legal advocacy sphere, 257 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:31,119 Speaker 2: think tanks, networking organizations. They were investing in really sophisticated 258 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:35,000 Speaker 2: data initiatives. At the time, they were also investing these 259 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:38,200 Speaker 2: pastor networks that I've described in my work Money Lies 260 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:40,760 Speaker 2: in God. I talk about watchmen in the wall and 261 00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:43,760 Speaker 2: faith wins where they know, they know very well. If 262 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:46,360 Speaker 2: you can get the pastors, you can get a sector. 263 00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:48,719 Speaker 2: You can get their voters, and they turn out their 264 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:52,239 Speaker 2: voters in disproportionate numbers. I mean, I looked it up 265 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:55,119 Speaker 2: this morning. I think white evangelicals count as something like 266 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:58,800 Speaker 2: thirteen percent of the population. And of course, as we 267 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:02,720 Speaker 2: know evangelicals and it's diverse, and not all white Evangelicals 268 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 2: support this movement, but they do in really disproportionate numbers. 269 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:11,639 Speaker 2: And then of course the movement also draws an ultraconservative 270 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:17,639 Speaker 2: Catholics and Pentecon segment of charismatics. But they know if 271 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:20,920 Speaker 2: they can get those churches to function as like partisan 272 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:26,240 Speaker 2: political sels, they can dominate in election cycles, especially in 273 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:29,359 Speaker 2: a country where forty to fifty percent of people don't 274 00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:30,600 Speaker 2: turn out to vote at all. 275 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:41,280 Speaker 1: So I agree with you completely on every conceivable level, 276 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:48,000 Speaker 1: deeply about the threat. I have a but I would 277 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:52,640 Speaker 1: like to discuss. I think it is really important, and 278 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:56,520 Speaker 1: I think at this moment that what I'm going to 279 00:19:56,600 --> 00:20:01,800 Speaker 1: talk about has to be discussed. It has to be confronted, 280 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:06,440 Speaker 1: because if you look at the current situation, we are 281 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:12,159 Speaker 1: all together in some type of proverbial plane crash in 282 00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:18,119 Speaker 1: the Alaskan wilderness, cut off from the world we knew, 283 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:26,040 Speaker 1: dealing now with the realities of an unrestrained, thuggish Donald 284 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:32,000 Speaker 1: Trump and Elon Muskin secretary Little Marco, and African children 285 00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:38,600 Speaker 1: starving with American food aid on the shelves, as ignoble, 286 00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:46,920 Speaker 1: as unchristian, as indecent, a set of actions undertaken ever 287 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:56,440 Speaker 1: in our history. So how did that happen that forty 288 00:20:56,560 --> 00:21:01,480 Speaker 1: nine point nine percent of the people by one of 289 00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 1: the thinnest margins as a matter of historic reality in 290 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:10,399 Speaker 1: the last one hundred and twenty years, Elect Donald Trump 291 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:13,200 Speaker 1: to be the forty seventh President of the United States. 292 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:20,360 Speaker 1: And I can't help but wonder the implications of all 293 00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:30,600 Speaker 1: of those people whose accumulation of arrogancies left the gates 294 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:38,119 Speaker 1: unlocked for the wolves to enter a sanctuary. And so 295 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:50,440 Speaker 1: when public education was expressed as a national security necessity 296 00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:55,520 Speaker 1: in the nineteenth century, as a society, we have to 297 00:21:55,600 --> 00:22:01,200 Speaker 1: have mandatory public education for every kit. It was an 298 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:06,920 Speaker 1: evolution really from the first mandates of American society. Is 299 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:12,160 Speaker 1: it spreads out out of the Plymouth Bay Colony, right 300 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:19,600 Speaker 1: out of these original pilgrims. And the edict is every 301 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:22,720 Speaker 1: village that has fifty families in it has to have 302 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:29,119 Speaker 1: a school. Not a lot of rules imposed about what's 303 00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:32,120 Speaker 1: taught in the school, but there will be a school. 304 00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:38,679 Speaker 1: And so we have across America this vast network of 305 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:43,840 Speaker 1: community colleges, universities, the finest in the world, most intricate, 306 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:49,040 Speaker 1: decentralized educational system that's ever been in world history, that 307 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:53,159 Speaker 1: spreads out over two hundred and fifty years and about 308 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:58,920 Speaker 1: one hundred and forty years ago, got to educate every kit. 309 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:05,120 Speaker 1: And there's a lot of resistances, a lot of American men 310 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:10,919 Speaker 1: and women, immigrants I need that kid who's sixteen not 311 00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:16,760 Speaker 1: learning nonsense about math. We have to harvest the crop 312 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:21,160 Speaker 1: and don't tell me what to do with my kid. 313 00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:28,880 Speaker 1: And so the purpose of public education, as argued by 314 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:33,960 Speaker 1: its advocates at the dawn of its inception, was the 315 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:43,480 Speaker 1: purpose of doing this is to teach citizenship, because the 316 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:54,679 Speaker 1: republic requires educated people to be good citizens. Has the 317 00:23:54,800 --> 00:24:00,960 Speaker 1: curriculum of America's public schools in the last thirty years 318 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:08,879 Speaker 1: taught a doctrine of faith in America's institutions, in America's ideas, 319 00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:17,800 Speaker 1: or has America's public education system taught a faith of 320 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:24,199 Speaker 1: skepticism that degrades those ideas and places them in a 321 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:36,119 Speaker 1: context completely through the prism of today's moors, applied to 322 00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:42,000 Speaker 1: a fallen world that has evolved from two hundred years ago, 323 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:48,320 Speaker 1: where we judge, like little MAOIs with read books, the 324 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 1: sins of the geniuses who incepted the greatest idea in 325 00:24:53,160 --> 00:25:01,399 Speaker 1: world history and denounce them for their hypocrisies instead of 326 00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:06,800 Speaker 1: studying them through the context of human frailty. Because I 327 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:12,399 Speaker 1: think the answer to that question explains how it is 328 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:17,520 Speaker 1: maybe why we have what we have sitting in the 329 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:23,000 Speaker 1: White House, and how it is in the absence of 330 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:31,960 Speaker 1: faith in something. There was a seed planted that grew 331 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:39,080 Speaker 1: a poisonous trade in a garden of tolerance, that held 332 00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:44,600 Speaker 1: we are all created equal, that the purpose of life 333 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:49,240 Speaker 1: is the pursuit of happiness, and that the framework of 334 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:52,159 Speaker 1: guaranteeing all of this is a government of the people, 335 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:58,000 Speaker 1: by the people, for the people, which has great nobility 336 00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:02,639 Speaker 1: of purpose and has been defended at the greatest cost. 337 00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:08,240 Speaker 1: And that there's a mutuality of connection through these values 338 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:13,280 Speaker 1: everywhere all around the world, but that the engine of 339 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:21,000 Speaker 1: their power is the United States. And children, you live 340 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:27,240 Speaker 1: in a flawed country, but a great one, and the 341 00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:30,840 Speaker 1: purpose of your life should not be to be a billionaire, 342 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 1: but to play a role in the fabric of your 343 00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:42,639 Speaker 1: nation to help perfect the union. Do you see anywhere 344 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:49,400 Speaker 1: in America where that has been anywhere a part of 345 00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:54,639 Speaker 1: the civics education on a forty year basis as this 346 00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:55,720 Speaker 1: pestilence rose. 347 00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:59,320 Speaker 2: You know, I'm just one mom who is actually sent 348 00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:04,040 Speaker 2: her to several different public schools, as some of them 349 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:07,359 Speaker 2: do a better job of civic education than others. But 350 00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:10,840 Speaker 2: I think that the fact that so many Americans have 351 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:14,720 Speaker 2: been drawn into a fact free world speaks to the 352 00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:18,439 Speaker 2: fact that we need a more robust civics education. We 353 00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:21,920 Speaker 2: need to be teaching children critical thinking. We need to 354 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:26,680 Speaker 2: help them understand the difference between fact and propaganda, because 355 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:31,160 Speaker 2: we've really come to a place where there are these 356 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:38,320 Speaker 2: incredible propaganda information propaganda operations being funded by the way, 357 00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:43,600 Speaker 2: by incredibly rich people that are intended to separate Americans 358 00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:46,919 Speaker 2: from the facts and draw them into this movement that 359 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:51,640 Speaker 2: is actually destroying our country. It's, you know, the look 360 00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:54,679 Speaker 2: at what's happening now. You know, it's tanking our economy. 361 00:27:54,760 --> 00:28:01,960 Speaker 2: It's we have an amoral, transparent, the amorl leader and 362 00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:08,680 Speaker 2: his you know, billionaire co president who's rampaging through the government, 363 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:12,800 Speaker 2: you know, promoting chaos and going after Grammar's social security 364 00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:19,040 Speaker 2: and medicare. We have alienated our most dear friends. They've 365 00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:23,360 Speaker 2: instigated needless trade wars with some of our closest friends, 366 00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:32,600 Speaker 2: allied with a kleptocratic murderer whose country has an economy 367 00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:36,920 Speaker 2: smaller than that of Canada. I mean, you know, it's 368 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,640 Speaker 2: it's it's really unreal what's happening. And the fact that 369 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:43,480 Speaker 2: so many Americans have been drawn into this fact free 370 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:47,520 Speaker 2: disinformation sphere and actually thought that Donald Trump was going 371 00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:53,320 Speaker 2: to save us, and we're so eager to abandon democracy 372 00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:58,160 Speaker 2: and embrace a more authoritarian form of leadership. Speaks to 373 00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:01,239 Speaker 2: a lot, speaks not just to the education section, but 374 00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:03,920 Speaker 2: it also speaks by the way, Steve and I really 375 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:05,920 Speaker 2: this is really the subject or a lot of the 376 00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:09,520 Speaker 2: subject of my current book. Over the past decades, we've 377 00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:13,920 Speaker 2: had a vast concentration upward, concentration of wealth at the 378 00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:18,239 Speaker 2: tippy top of the economic ladder. This has led a 379 00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:21,920 Speaker 2: lot of Americans to feel rightfully resentful. You have a 380 00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:24,520 Speaker 2: lot of Americans who feel like they're being left behind. 381 00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:28,440 Speaker 2: A lot of Americans, also, by the way, have sort 382 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:33,200 Speaker 2: of unexamined, the unexamined prejudices that can be tapped into. 383 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:37,960 Speaker 2: But it's not all prejudice. The resentments can be tapped into. 384 00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:41,680 Speaker 2: And you have these operations that are saying, these are 385 00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:45,760 Speaker 2: the folks who are responsible for your troubles, the woky's 386 00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:48,800 Speaker 2: over here, the wokani wokes here, and the you know, 387 00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:53,400 Speaker 2: the liberals over here, you know, the woke communists. And 388 00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:58,440 Speaker 2: then you know that pribes them to you know, accept 389 00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:01,000 Speaker 2: a leader like Trump who promised is he ran on 390 00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:06,240 Speaker 2: promises of vengeance, and he promises to punish these people's 391 00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:09,320 Speaker 2: political enemies, and they think he's going to make America 392 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:13,520 Speaker 2: great again. And that's not just an education problem, it's 393 00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:18,600 Speaker 2: also an equality problem, an economic inequality problem. It's a 394 00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:22,760 Speaker 2: you know, these days you have you know, you've got 395 00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:26,040 Speaker 2: two parents, you've got three jobs, and they still can't 396 00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:30,360 Speaker 2: like manage a life of dignity for their kids. You know, 397 00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:32,720 Speaker 2: this is a movement that promises to stand for the 398 00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:35,600 Speaker 2: American family, and that's very appealing to a lot of people, 399 00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:41,280 Speaker 2: but they're driving support for economic like for for politicians, 400 00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:45,000 Speaker 2: it's economic policies are just going to make things even 401 00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:48,320 Speaker 2: worse for them. We're going to see tax cuts for 402 00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:53,680 Speaker 2: billionaires by by stiffing the working people of our country. 403 00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:56,480 Speaker 2: And this is just going to be a continuation of 404 00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:59,080 Speaker 2: the politics that have led us to the sort of 405 00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:01,880 Speaker 2: state of unrea that we're in right now. 406 00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:10,360 Speaker 1: We're going to talk about three tributaries of this with 407 00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:22,120 Speaker 1: our time remaining, fraudulent corruption, and lethal danger. So let's 408 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:28,520 Speaker 1: start with a totem of fraudulents. And I'm not going 409 00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:30,960 Speaker 1: to play it now while we're here together, but we 410 00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:35,000 Speaker 1: will edit it in and I'm going to show White 411 00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:44,480 Speaker 1: House Faith advisor Pastor Paula, former mistress of televangelist Benny Hint, 412 00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:51,520 Speaker 1: married to now a former member of the band Journey, 413 00:31:53,320 --> 00:32:01,280 Speaker 1: speaking in tongues talking about demons. She has an office 414 00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:05,840 Speaker 1: in the West wing of the White House, And so 415 00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:21,080 Speaker 1: talk about the performances, the fraudulencies of these grifters that 416 00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:29,200 Speaker 1: have always existed in the American culture. Seneke Oil Salesman 417 00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:42,600 Speaker 1: Revival ministers this uniquely American amalgamation of thirty different strains 418 00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:50,800 Speaker 1: of Protestantism and Busticisms on a new continent that in 419 00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:54,120 Speaker 1: the two hundred and fiftieth anniversary year of the American 420 00:32:54,240 --> 00:33:06,360 Speaker 1: Revolution has in this great stu produced movement nascent fraudulents 421 00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:12,960 Speaker 1: epic right. And so talk about that Pastor Paula and 422 00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:14,600 Speaker 1: her friends. 423 00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:22,280 Speaker 2: Pastor Paula White is a representative of the independent charismatic 424 00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:26,800 Speaker 2: movement that has brought new energy to the larger Christian 425 00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:33,280 Speaker 2: Nationalists movement. These movements are both multiracial, by the way, 426 00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:38,080 Speaker 2: and also transnational, and for many years they were nowhere 427 00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:42,280 Speaker 2: near the center of the traditional religious right. But the 428 00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:44,080 Speaker 2: way I do a lot of my research as I 429 00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:46,800 Speaker 2: go to right wing conferences and strategy gatherings, and I 430 00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:50,640 Speaker 2: started to notice there were representatives of this movement, people 431 00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:54,920 Speaker 2: like Lance Walna, who are being invited to gatherings like 432 00:33:55,240 --> 00:34:00,360 Speaker 2: Ralph Read's of Faith and Road to Majority conference. The 433 00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:03,360 Speaker 2: first time he showed up, I was frankly stunned. I 434 00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:06,760 Speaker 2: was like, Wow, what's Lance wall now doing here? Because 435 00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:08,920 Speaker 2: it was so unusual. And then all of a sudden, 436 00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:12,279 Speaker 2: they're having not just breakout sessions on what they call 437 00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:15,560 Speaker 2: the Seven Mountains mandate, which is the idea very common 438 00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:20,560 Speaker 2: in these movements that people who dominate, that only Christians 439 00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:23,480 Speaker 2: like them should dominate, or conservative Christians or as they 440 00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:27,239 Speaker 2: call it radical really it's not conservative should dominate the 441 00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:32,720 Speaker 2: Seven Mountains or molders or peaks of culture including finance, government, education, 442 00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:37,680 Speaker 2: arts and entertainment, etc. And then they're having not just 443 00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:42,520 Speaker 2: breakout sessions, but presentations on seven Mountains from the main stage. 444 00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:47,680 Speaker 2: So the ideas, the style of the and language of 445 00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:51,719 Speaker 2: this sort of sector has spilled out into other sectors 446 00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:56,640 Speaker 2: of the movement. It's a radically democratic idea, this idea 447 00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:59,920 Speaker 2: of the Seven Mountains. This is a movement that often 448 00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:05,799 Speaker 2: sees spiritual battles taking playing out in real time in 449 00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:10,359 Speaker 2: the political realm. And they say that, you know, God 450 00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:13,520 Speaker 2: has you know, put his hand on Donald Trump's shoulder, 451 00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:17,000 Speaker 2: and any opposition to him is demonic or satanic. There's 452 00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:19,440 Speaker 2: a lot of demon talks, you know, a lot of 453 00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:23,400 Speaker 2: talk about taking dominion back from Satan. Anything that's not 454 00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:27,840 Speaker 2: any sector of culture, any sort of position of power 455 00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:32,279 Speaker 2: that's not dominated by someone like them, is basically, you know, 456 00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:33,640 Speaker 2: a Satanic stronghold. 457 00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:39,600 Speaker 1: So it really there is no room for disagreement. 458 00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:42,680 Speaker 2: No, and so it really provides you. 459 00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:47,160 Speaker 1: You are either with the man that God has said 460 00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:53,080 Speaker 1: you get to live today, Butler Pennsylvania to save America, 461 00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:57,400 Speaker 1: an usher in the Golden Age? Will we kill the 462 00:35:57,440 --> 00:35:58,120 Speaker 1: guy behind you? 463 00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:03,920 Speaker 2: Well, it set it creates a permission structure for political violence. 464 00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:06,800 Speaker 2: And there are a lot of representatives of this movement 465 00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:11,719 Speaker 2: that are actually involved in organizing the sort of January 466 00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:15,000 Speaker 2: sixth disgraceful attack on our capital. 467 00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:20,960 Speaker 1: Does the Secretary of Defense have any identifying markers or 468 00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:25,920 Speaker 1: tattoos on his body that would associate himself with any 469 00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:29,280 Speaker 1: aspect of this political movement that we're talking about. 470 00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:33,320 Speaker 2: Pete Hegseth appears to be more closely aligned with a 471 00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:36,879 Speaker 2: pastor based in Moscow, Idaho, who has a vast When 472 00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:39,719 Speaker 2: I say he's a pastor, I mean he's another one 473 00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:43,400 Speaker 2: of these, I would say religious entrepreneurs who has like 474 00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:48,560 Speaker 2: a whole world around him, publishing houses. He's a head 475 00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:50,960 Speaker 2: of sort of parachurch networks, so there are a lot 476 00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:54,040 Speaker 2: of churches that are kind of affiliated with his movement. 477 00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:58,960 Speaker 2: His name is Doug Wilson. He is also equally anti democratic. 478 00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:02,080 Speaker 2: He has said that giving women the right to vote 479 00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:06,560 Speaker 2: was a mistake. Think about that, and that's half the population, 480 00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:16,399 Speaker 2: you know, And he's extremely reactionary. He has published work 481 00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:21,640 Speaker 2: that offers what has been widely perceived as a defense 482 00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:26,120 Speaker 2: of what he calls biblical slavery. I have a lot 483 00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:28,680 Speaker 2: of the details of that, I believe in my former 484 00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:34,440 Speaker 2: book The Power Worshippers Inside the Dangerous Rise of Religious Nationalism, 485 00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:37,400 Speaker 2: where I have a section on Doug Wilson. And we 486 00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:41,000 Speaker 2: know that Pete Hegseth has praised Doug Wilson, and he 487 00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:45,359 Speaker 2: has also attended a church that is affiliated with Doug 488 00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:51,680 Speaker 2: Wilson's broader ministry. So you know, it's interesting. There are 489 00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:54,759 Speaker 2: multiple strains within this movement. The movement would, by the way, 490 00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:58,720 Speaker 2: be nowhere without the influence of a cadre of ultra 491 00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:03,279 Speaker 2: conservative Catholics. But here's a thing, Steve. When you look 492 00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:07,160 Speaker 2: at the people funding the movement, some of them are Evangelical, 493 00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:10,080 Speaker 2: some of them are Protestants, some of them are ultra 494 00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:13,480 Speaker 2: truth like trad Catholics. Some of them are Jewish, some 495 00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:18,160 Speaker 2: of them are frankly atheistic and religiously they're all over 496 00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:22,440 Speaker 2: the place. But what they really want is economic policies 497 00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:26,480 Speaker 2: that are going to justify their vast concentrations of wealth 498 00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:31,520 Speaker 2: and actually increase it. They want minimal regulation for their businesses. 499 00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:34,439 Speaker 2: They say, they're you know, it's so ironic. They say, 500 00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:37,000 Speaker 2: we're just pro capitalists. We want to let the markets 501 00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:40,960 Speaker 2: do their thing. And yet they want taxpayer subsidies, a 502 00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:44,200 Speaker 2: lot of them, for their businesses. They want protective contracts, 503 00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:48,480 Speaker 2: protective policies for their I would say, privileged contracts, protective 504 00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:53,000 Speaker 2: policies for their monopolistic businesses. Look at Elon Musk, you 505 00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:57,080 Speaker 2: think he's motivated remotely by religion in any of this, 506 00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:03,279 Speaker 2: of course, not or Burry Side, Chicago billionaire who is 507 00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:06,680 Speaker 2: not even a Christian, but he donated one point six 508 00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:10,520 Speaker 2: billion dollars to form the Marble Freedom Trust. That's billion 509 00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:13,560 Speaker 2: with a bee, and he put Leonard Leo in charge 510 00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:16,400 Speaker 2: of it. I really dig into the funders of this 511 00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:19,760 Speaker 2: movement because I think it says something about the movement 512 00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:23,000 Speaker 2: that's really important to remember. A lot of the religion 513 00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:26,440 Speaker 2: stuff is just like it just gets the rank and 514 00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:29,680 Speaker 2: file on board the foot soldiers. How are you going 515 00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:33,040 Speaker 2: to get some poor lady living? I mean and met 516 00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:36,160 Speaker 2: so many of these poor women's single mother in Las 517 00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:39,360 Speaker 2: Vegas who has had a bad divorce and one of 518 00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:42,400 Speaker 2: her kids won't talk to her like she's struggling to 519 00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:44,000 Speaker 2: make it work as a hair address. So I'm just 520 00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:47,480 Speaker 2: thinking very specifically about someone I actually met, How are 521 00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:50,000 Speaker 2: you going to get her to vote for economic policies 522 00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:53,440 Speaker 2: that are going to hurt her, for a movement that 523 00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:55,919 Speaker 2: actually wants to take away her right to vote that's 524 00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:59,880 Speaker 2: taking or the form of birth control that she relies 525 00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:04,160 Speaker 2: on that is going to destroy the public school where 526 00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:09,000 Speaker 2: her kids actually get you know, federally mandated services because 527 00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:13,000 Speaker 2: one of her kids has a learning disability, Well, you 528 00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:16,440 Speaker 2: get her all in on, you know, blaming abortion and 529 00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:20,120 Speaker 2: the trans people for all of her problems. You get 530 00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:22,200 Speaker 2: her distracted by what I think of as like a 531 00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:25,480 Speaker 2: laser pointer cat toy. You get her involved in a 532 00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:28,319 Speaker 2: church where her pastor tells her you got to vote 533 00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:32,240 Speaker 2: your biblical values and these are what your biblical values were, 534 00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:35,799 Speaker 2: you know, reduced to. And that's how you get her 535 00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:38,719 Speaker 2: on board. And that kind of story is playing out 536 00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:41,200 Speaker 2: over and over again in our country. 537 00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:52,360 Speaker 1: Okay, So again for everybody that listens to this conversation. 538 00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:59,040 Speaker 1: The political point that I want to make is this, 539 00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:06,200 Speaker 1: and it is urgent in this moment in our country's history. 540 00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:15,759 Speaker 1: Politics demand a response to this. If there is a 541 00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:26,759 Speaker 1: vacuum of nothingness, there is no better faith this disease 542 00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:34,320 Speaker 1: can take root. So let's talk about the corruption quickly 543 00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:38,640 Speaker 1: before we get to the end, which is the depth, 544 00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:46,160 Speaker 1: which is always what fills the theater seats. So the 545 00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:58,560 Speaker 1: corruption of this the connection points the shared ideology is 546 00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:09,640 Speaker 1: anesthetical to message in that this manifests itself as a 547 00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:17,640 Speaker 1: philosophy of taking, not love, not service. So if all 548 00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:24,560 Speaker 1: of these people were lined up in the temple, when 549 00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:30,640 Speaker 1: Christ comes back, if he's the same guy as he 550 00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:36,360 Speaker 1: was on the first go round, he will turn over 551 00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:42,920 Speaker 1: their companies and tables, and so how do these people live? 552 00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:48,600 Speaker 1: Do they live as humble servants of Jesus Christ? Do 553 00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:59,080 Speaker 1: they live lives of love and decency and compassion? Do 554 00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:05,839 Speaker 1: they help the stranger, blessed, be the poor? Do they 555 00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:10,520 Speaker 1: serve the cause it's outlined in the Sermon of the Mount? 556 00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:12,080 Speaker 1: How do they live? 557 00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:18,520 Speaker 2: Great question? Google Betsy Devos's Yachts with an S and 558 00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:21,760 Speaker 2: you'll see. I mean when you talk about the Sermon 559 00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:25,280 Speaker 2: in the Mount and the Social Gospel. I was at 560 00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:30,400 Speaker 2: America Fest recently in December. It's two hundred, sorry, twenty 561 00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:33,960 Speaker 2: thousand hardcore MAGA supporters and the head of Turning Point 562 00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:37,000 Speaker 2: USA Faith. This is a gathering organized every year by 563 00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:40,880 Speaker 2: Charlie Kirk's organization Turning Point USA, the head of the 564 00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:47,799 Speaker 2: faith outreach arm, said that woke Christianity is heretical. He 565 00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:53,800 Speaker 2: called progressive Christianity heretical, and he specifically spotlighted the Social 566 00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:58,800 Speaker 2: Gospel as being part of this heresy. So it's really 567 00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:01,360 Speaker 2: he said, we need a new Nice and Creed and 568 00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:07,600 Speaker 2: Co Council, referring to the fourth century Synod that sort 569 00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:10,080 Speaker 2: of established that. You know, he said, I've made it 570 00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:15,279 Speaker 2: my mission to eradicate wokeism from the American pulpit. Wokism 571 00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:19,040 Speaker 2: the social gospel, which is, as you know, what a 572 00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:22,160 Speaker 2: lot of Christians think of as the gospel, the idea 573 00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:23,120 Speaker 2: of loving your neighbor. 574 00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:25,399 Speaker 1: But this is the movement that I don't think though, 575 00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:27,680 Speaker 1: that's what wokeism is. I'm going to tell you what 576 00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:30,280 Speaker 1: I think is amiss. Have you ever seen the movie 577 00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:35,959 Speaker 1: The Lives Other People's Lives in East Germany about life 578 00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:36,760 Speaker 1: in East Germany? 579 00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:38,360 Speaker 2: I have not. 580 00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:46,200 Speaker 1: I think there's a difference by degree of different authoritarian systems. 581 00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:49,839 Speaker 1: And when we grew up, we grew up in an 582 00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:56,160 Speaker 1: era where the authoritarian system that we faced was gray 583 00:44:57,280 --> 00:45:03,560 Speaker 1: and draft and life us. The Nazis were utterly decadent 584 00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:10,359 Speaker 1: and fascist. Trump's capital the wild place, they, no doubt 585 00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:14,719 Speaker 1: snorting lines of coke off the bar. The Reich was 586 00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:20,319 Speaker 1: a wild time. Wokism is in the eyes of a 587 00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:23,040 Speaker 1: lot of men in the country, for example, and you 588 00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:27,480 Speaker 1: look at their deterioration again the gates being opened. You 589 00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:29,680 Speaker 1: live in terror that you're gonna be summoned to your 590 00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:33,560 Speaker 1: HR department because you said the word whiteboard, or you 591 00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:37,320 Speaker 1: were dined out by some millennial or some gen z 592 00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:40,279 Speaker 1: because you looked at them the wrong way, or your 593 00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:43,200 Speaker 1: privilege and all of that. That's where they went to. 594 00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:47,640 Speaker 1: Now I urge you to watch that movie Catherine right, 595 00:45:48,239 --> 00:45:52,920 Speaker 1: Other People's Lives, which would show a different type of 596 00:45:52,960 --> 00:46:04,479 Speaker 1: authoritarianism that's imposed by a secular in tolerance language police right. Hey, 597 00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:09,479 Speaker 1: I'm for police reform. No, I'll destroy your pulier, right. 598 00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:13,040 Speaker 1: And last year it's defund the police or that's not 599 00:46:13,560 --> 00:46:16,560 Speaker 1: that's on all of these things. So this has to. 600 00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:20,040 Speaker 2: Interrupt you for a second. Let me be clear, I 601 00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:24,120 Speaker 2: don't think I count as especially woke. I'm pretty protective 602 00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:26,640 Speaker 2: of the rights and dignity that women have had to 603 00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:30,080 Speaker 2: fight for over centuries. I'm a big believer in Martin 604 00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:33,880 Speaker 2: Luther King's statement that people should be judged on the 605 00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:36,320 Speaker 2: basis of not on the basis of their skin color, 606 00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:38,080 Speaker 2: but by the content of their character. 607 00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:41,120 Speaker 1: And I'm tolerant, right, I'm inclined to. 608 00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:43,920 Speaker 2: Think that identity politics has gotten out of hand, but 609 00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:47,600 Speaker 2: even more so not just on the left, but especially 610 00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:52,480 Speaker 2: on the embittered right. But that said, right now, I'm 611 00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:56,880 Speaker 2: much more anti anti woke than I am anti woke, 612 00:46:57,120 --> 00:47:00,120 Speaker 2: and it's partly because the anti woke movement has has 613 00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:04,480 Speaker 2: now become its own kind of wokery. It I don't 614 00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:06,560 Speaker 2: think we have time to mess around with battles that 615 00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:12,359 Speaker 2: are often entered into for their symbolism for virtuous as 616 00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:15,880 Speaker 2: opposed to actual harms and lives that are at stake. 617 00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:19,239 Speaker 2: So I think the main purpose of a lot of 618 00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:23,600 Speaker 2: this into wokery that we are hearing from the right 619 00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:29,239 Speaker 2: is scapegoating. It's it's scapegoating to an authoritarian movement, I 620 00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:34,000 Speaker 2: meaning this huge crisis. Our democracy is under direct attack 621 00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:37,719 Speaker 2: from within. We no longer have a credible system of 622 00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:41,320 Speaker 2: justice and law enforcement at the federal level. Our economy 623 00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:45,240 Speaker 2: and livelihoods are at stake. We have, you know, millions 624 00:47:45,239 --> 00:47:48,400 Speaker 2: of people likely to lose their Medicaid coverage and possibly 625 00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:51,680 Speaker 2: their Social Security. And when you go to a place 626 00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:56,360 Speaker 2: like Turning Point, us say all they talk every single 627 00:47:56,880 --> 00:47:59,799 Speaker 2: I would say, every other speaker when you go to 628 00:47:59,840 --> 00:48:03,440 Speaker 2: that sort of America fest which I attended, they're like, 629 00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:07,600 Speaker 2: you know, massive signs everywhere, give Trump his cabinet picks. 630 00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:11,680 Speaker 2: Every other speaker spoke about this issue of trans women 631 00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:16,280 Speaker 2: in sports, whatever you think about that issue. They're using 632 00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:21,319 Speaker 2: this kind of identity politics in order to mobilize for. 633 00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:25,640 Speaker 1: Fascism, yes or no question. Mistake for Gavin Newsom to 634 00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:26,800 Speaker 1: sit down with Charlie. 635 00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:30,640 Speaker 2: You know what, I haven't watched the whole thing, so 636 00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:32,759 Speaker 2: I can't make a judgment until I watched the. 637 00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:37,440 Speaker 1: Whole last last thing. We have two minutes left, but 638 00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:39,520 Speaker 1: we don't really have to spend a lot of time 639 00:48:39,600 --> 00:48:42,480 Speaker 1: on the last thing. So I just want to say, 640 00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:45,320 Speaker 1: and I want to be clear about what I'm saying, 641 00:48:45,719 --> 00:48:52,960 Speaker 1: which is this, the extremism of the left is the 642 00:48:53,080 --> 00:49:01,480 Speaker 1: fuel of the grievance and the unjustified power annoying of 643 00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:01,919 Speaker 1: the right. 644 00:49:02,160 --> 00:49:03,960 Speaker 2: It's part of the fuel. And I do have a 645 00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:08,160 Speaker 2: section on that in my book Money Lies in God. 646 00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:13,759 Speaker 1: It's truly the only renewable energy source known to man 647 00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:19,400 Speaker 1: that never ends, and so we have to recognize it 648 00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:23,960 Speaker 1: because in the end, what this is, what Katherine Stewart 649 00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:27,200 Speaker 1: is talking about a Money Lies in God which I 650 00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:32,719 Speaker 1: urge you all to read, is that this is a 651 00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:39,160 Speaker 1: political faith, a dogma, and a philosophy that says something 652 00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:42,800 Speaker 1: very different than the American faith, which is that God 653 00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:49,120 Speaker 1: has given the individual human being inalienable rights, replacing it 654 00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:54,839 Speaker 1: with a notion that God has mandated that we will 655 00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:59,719 Speaker 1: enforce His will as we interpret it by exercising absolute 656 00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:05,720 Speaker 1: political power to impose that interpretation on you, the human 657 00:50:05,840 --> 00:50:11,400 Speaker 1: being under our jack boot enslaving you. And it is 658 00:50:11,560 --> 00:50:19,560 Speaker 1: the singularly most evil political philosophy short of Nazism, that 659 00:50:19,640 --> 00:50:24,000 Speaker 1: has ever existed on earth. And everywhere it exists, there 660 00:50:24,080 --> 00:50:28,480 Speaker 1: is suffering and there is death, and that is the 661 00:50:28,640 --> 00:50:33,200 Speaker 1: point of this book. So I want to ask you 662 00:50:33,719 --> 00:50:39,560 Speaker 1: talk about the death, because in the end, society's built 663 00:50:39,640 --> 00:50:44,919 Speaker 1: on a few men, and it is always men who 664 00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:51,200 Speaker 1: say I am the voice of God. Ends in blood. 665 00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:54,960 Speaker 1: The question is talk about where this inevitably goes. Where 666 00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:59,080 Speaker 1: it goes, it goes into rivers of blood, That's where 667 00:50:59,120 --> 00:50:59,600 Speaker 1: it ends. 668 00:51:00,200 --> 00:51:05,040 Speaker 2: Well, I think that we're not there yet. We have elections. 669 00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:08,320 Speaker 2: As you said, look Trump, the country didn't go maga. 670 00:51:08,719 --> 00:51:12,160 Speaker 2: What happened is a lot of Democrats didn't show up 671 00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:14,360 Speaker 2: to vote. And there are a lot of reasons for that, 672 00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:17,040 Speaker 2: and we could do a whole other segment on that. 673 00:51:17,880 --> 00:51:20,920 Speaker 2: We won't get into it right now. But one thing 674 00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:24,200 Speaker 2: this movement does right is they give people a sense 675 00:51:24,200 --> 00:51:26,880 Speaker 2: of identity. You know, it's not a nice identity, but 676 00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:29,239 Speaker 2: it's an identity and they also turn them out. They 677 00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:33,760 Speaker 2: turn out their base to vote. All of that infrastructure 678 00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:38,040 Speaker 2: of the Christian nationalist movement is aimed at turning out 679 00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:40,960 Speaker 2: their base, and they also go after low propensity voters. 680 00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:43,120 Speaker 2: I think a lot of mistakes were made in this 681 00:51:43,200 --> 00:51:46,719 Speaker 2: past election, and we need to, you know, those of 682 00:51:46,760 --> 00:51:50,080 Speaker 2: us who believe in a pro democracy movement and it's 683 00:51:50,120 --> 00:51:54,440 Speaker 2: basic principles need to really focus on getting the vote out. 684 00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:56,920 Speaker 2: We have elections in less than two years. I mean, 685 00:51:56,920 --> 00:51:58,760 Speaker 2: there are a few things we need to keep in mind. 686 00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:01,960 Speaker 2: Number One, we need a big tent. We're not going 687 00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:04,720 Speaker 2: to agree on everything. We have to stop purity testing 688 00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:08,560 Speaker 2: one another. But if we can believe agree on certain 689 00:52:08,640 --> 00:52:13,560 Speaker 2: fundamental democratic principles, we can work together. Second of all, 690 00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:17,520 Speaker 2: we need to really focus on turning out our base. 691 00:52:17,600 --> 00:52:21,879 Speaker 2: I think there was I think relational organizing is much 692 00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:26,440 Speaker 2: more effective than TV ads. There was so much money 693 00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:29,440 Speaker 2: spent on the Democrat by the Democratic Party on the 694 00:52:29,480 --> 00:52:33,879 Speaker 2: Democratic side on television ads, whereas on the right they 695 00:52:33,920 --> 00:52:36,320 Speaker 2: really invest in relational organizing. Well. 696 00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:39,279 Speaker 1: The difference the difference between the television ads on the 697 00:52:39,320 --> 00:52:42,040 Speaker 1: two sides was the MAGA ads were effective and the 698 00:52:42,120 --> 00:52:46,520 Speaker 1: Democratic ads were craped right, they were incompetently done, They 699 00:52:46,520 --> 00:52:50,759 Speaker 1: had no emotional residents. The urgency of the moment was 700 00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:54,279 Speaker 1: met with brat Summer in the politics of joy and 701 00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:58,400 Speaker 1: the Democratic Party gas lit the American people about a senile, 702 00:52:58,480 --> 00:53:01,319 Speaker 1: eighty two year old man who could not function and 703 00:53:01,360 --> 00:53:04,040 Speaker 1: said he was good for four more years when the 704 00:53:04,080 --> 00:53:07,760 Speaker 1: most menacing threat in this country's face since the Confederacy 705 00:53:08,239 --> 00:53:12,600 Speaker 1: was bearing down. That's what happened. Democrats lost an election 706 00:53:12,760 --> 00:53:16,560 Speaker 1: on honesty, honesty on the economy, honesty on the border, 707 00:53:16,600 --> 00:53:21,160 Speaker 1: in honesty about Joe Biden. And so now we deal 708 00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:27,600 Speaker 1: with a lethal threat at hand. And the resolution to 709 00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:32,560 Speaker 1: all of this, I think is to really appreciate the 710 00:53:32,719 --> 00:53:39,720 Speaker 1: fact that democracy is a misunderstood concept in the tone 711 00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:42,120 Speaker 1: in which we argue it. And there was a Times 712 00:53:42,120 --> 00:53:45,439 Speaker 1: of London editorial at the outbreak of the Civil War, 713 00:53:45,920 --> 00:53:49,799 Speaker 1: in explaining the difference in American society between the two 714 00:53:49,880 --> 00:53:55,359 Speaker 1: propositions at hand, said the South is for democracy and 715 00:53:55,400 --> 00:53:59,680 Speaker 1: it is for slavery. The North is for democracy and 716 00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:04,640 Speaker 1: it is for freedom. So when the offering of democracy 717 00:54:04,719 --> 00:54:08,920 Speaker 1: is put before you, American people appreciate that what's at 718 00:54:09,200 --> 00:54:13,920 Speaker 1: hand and what's at stake is your liberty. That's the 719 00:54:14,080 --> 00:54:20,240 Speaker 1: consequence of the choice that democracy affords you. And liberty 720 00:54:20,360 --> 00:54:24,560 Speaker 1: and democracy are different things. And so is faith, and 721 00:54:24,600 --> 00:54:28,319 Speaker 1: so is politics, and so is God, and so is 722 00:54:28,360 --> 00:54:31,839 Speaker 1: a tyrant. And so if you read this book, put 723 00:54:31,960 --> 00:54:34,279 Speaker 1: up here on the screen, that's how you order it. 724 00:54:34,840 --> 00:54:38,200 Speaker 1: Money lies in God. Catherine Stewart, thank you for your 725 00:54:38,239 --> 00:54:38,880 Speaker 1: time today. 726 00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:40,200 Speaker 2: Thank you so much. 727 00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:44,640 Speaker 1: I'm Steve Schmidt. This is the warning. I invite you 728 00:54:44,680 --> 00:54:47,960 Speaker 1: to join this community where I promise to be honest, 729 00:54:48,239 --> 00:54:51,840 Speaker 1: blunt and direct about what is happening in this country. 730 00:54:52,080 --> 00:54:56,440 Speaker 1: America is in crisis. Follow and subscribe to this channel 731 00:54:56,560 --> 00:54:58,360 Speaker 1: on YouTube and on substack. 732 00:54:58,600 --> 00:55:00,000 Speaker 2: Thank you.