WEBVTT - Shep Gordon 0:00:04.400 --> 0:00:08.039 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome to the Bob Left Sets podcast. My 0:00:08.119 --> 0:00:13.560 guest this week is super Mention himself, Jeff Gordon. Good 0:00:13.560 --> 0:00:16.919 to be here. Okay, you were the first time I 0:00:17.000 --> 0:00:18.920 might have seen you face to face and talk to you. 0:00:19.040 --> 0:00:21.439 Was that AIBA for those people don't know, that's a 0:00:21.520 --> 0:00:27.480 conference in Nashville primarily for fair grounds and you were 0:00:27.480 --> 0:00:31.280 being honored along with Alice Cooper and they gave you 0:00:31.320 --> 0:00:33.760 the word first and you said, I've learned in my 0:00:33.880 --> 0:00:37.760 career who's in front and I should be behind Coope 0:00:38.120 --> 0:00:41.000 And you really said almost nothing. That must have been 0:00:41.520 --> 0:00:44.640 two thousand and eight maybe, okay, but in the last 0:00:44.680 --> 0:00:47.760 handful of years you've been on a run of publicity. 0:00:48.120 --> 0:00:51.880 So what changed? Um? The documentary Mike Meyer is making 0:00:51.920 --> 0:00:56.120 that documentary. UM first to change because I had an 0:00:56.120 --> 0:01:00.720 obligation to promote it. UM. I I would have been 0:01:00.720 --> 0:01:04.759 hard to look in the mirror and not promote someone's work. 0:01:04.840 --> 0:01:07.480 After beating up all my artists to make sure they promote, 0:01:07.680 --> 0:01:10.559 they did their promotions. So that was the first wave. 0:01:11.720 --> 0:01:16.600 Very uncomfortable, UM making speeches. I have real self worth 0:01:16.640 --> 0:01:20.600 issues that come out strongly. UM. But I'm I found 0:01:20.640 --> 0:01:24.520 that I loved moderated discussions UM, so I went through 0:01:24.560 --> 0:01:28.440 my promotion part of the journey and enjoy the interaction 0:01:28.520 --> 0:01:30.119 as long as I didn't know the questions that were 0:01:30.120 --> 0:01:33.800 being asked. UM. It really was sort of like psychotherapy 0:01:34.080 --> 0:01:36.840 and really fun UM. And people would come in the 0:01:36.840 --> 0:01:41.000 audiences that I knew from past lives, so reconnected some stuff. 0:01:41.800 --> 0:01:43.840 And then when I thought it was over, I started 0:01:43.880 --> 0:01:48.120 to get a lot of young musicians, managers, UM, at 0:01:48.280 --> 0:01:52.520 risk people UM who were reaching out to me thinking 0:01:52.560 --> 0:01:56.600 that I had maybe some frozen food answer, that maybe 0:01:56.640 --> 0:01:59.760 I could make them happy and with two or three 0:01:59.800 --> 0:02:04.520 war words, And although I know I can't UM, I 0:02:04.560 --> 0:02:08.240 wanted to try and really fulfill them. I didn't want to, 0:02:08.680 --> 0:02:12.720 you know, UM, not give them some hope of a 0:02:12.760 --> 0:02:17.160 good life or a successful career. So I started responding 0:02:17.200 --> 0:02:21.160 to the people and that just led to more and 0:02:21.200 --> 0:02:24.520 more of it. And now I sort of I find 0:02:24.520 --> 0:02:31.000 myself in a really bizarre position of UM being an 0:02:31.000 --> 0:02:36.120 inspiration to so many young people and maybe not to 0:02:36.160 --> 0:02:38.960 myself all the time. Yeah, how does that cross with 0:02:39.000 --> 0:02:42.920 your self worth issues? Uh? It's really bizarre because it's 0:02:42.960 --> 0:02:47.880 it's I sort of step into the character and it's 0:02:47.880 --> 0:02:50.280 ironic because your biggest act is a character. No, I 0:02:50.320 --> 0:02:53.320 was gonna say, it's very much like Alice who steps 0:02:53.320 --> 0:02:55.800 in tell Us Cooper. For those who were just starting up, 0:02:57.240 --> 0:02:59.600 shep was the manager through the heyday and it's still 0:02:59.639 --> 0:03:01.960 the man it so you know, for him, he steps 0:03:02.000 --> 0:03:05.359 into Alice Cooper, he leaves Alice on the stage. And 0:03:05.400 --> 0:03:07.880 I found that sort of in that same thing. I 0:03:07.960 --> 0:03:12.720 try and I try and be that person that the 0:03:12.840 --> 0:03:17.080 documentary made it up here. I am, and there's certainly 0:03:17.080 --> 0:03:19.560 a part of me that are in that movie. But 0:03:19.639 --> 0:03:22.000 I'm a human. I mean, you know, I failed a 0:03:22.000 --> 0:03:26.320 million times, which is what I want these people to know. Um, 0:03:26.400 --> 0:03:28.600 and I've done a lot of stupid things and I 0:03:28.639 --> 0:03:32.359 don't have great self worth and I still got to 0:03:32.400 --> 0:03:35.000 where I wanted to be. Okay, But you also wrote 0:03:35.000 --> 0:03:37.240 a book. What was the inspiration? How did that come together? 0:03:37.240 --> 0:03:39.440 The book was really interesting? The book was I went 0:03:39.480 --> 0:03:42.720 to just about everything in my life is um knee 0:03:42.760 --> 0:03:47.120 jerk reaction. Although it appears that I'm very calculated. Um, 0:03:47.440 --> 0:03:50.280 I don't really plan, so I didn't think about doing 0:03:50.280 --> 0:03:52.280 a book. I got a lot of people asking me 0:03:52.360 --> 0:03:54.440 to do a book after the movie, but it wasn't 0:03:54.480 --> 0:03:57.000 even in my wheelhouse at all. But I went to 0:03:57.320 --> 0:04:01.000 Roy Choi chef here who started Kogi Trucks, who was 0:04:01.040 --> 0:04:03.720 one of my heroes, and he had a book come out, 0:04:04.240 --> 0:04:06.960 so I went. I wanted to support him. I happened 0:04:06.960 --> 0:04:08.320 to be in New York. I went to his book 0:04:08.360 --> 0:04:12.400 signing party and Anthony Bourdain was there, and he came 0:04:12.440 --> 0:04:13.960 over him and he said, I got to do your 0:04:14.000 --> 0:04:17.120 book with you. I have a publishing company. I published 0:04:17.200 --> 0:04:20.080 roy Choice book. I wouldn't be here if it wasn't 0:04:20.080 --> 0:04:23.960 for you. And I said why, why? What does that mean? 0:04:24.080 --> 0:04:28.920 He said, you made Emerald Lagas famous. I became famous 0:04:28.960 --> 0:04:35.560 by beating up Emerald Lagas. I owe you big time. Okay, 0:04:35.839 --> 0:04:38.239 so what did we learn? Although you've given a pretty 0:04:38.240 --> 0:04:41.320 good answer from suddenly coming out from the shadows and 0:04:41.440 --> 0:04:45.880 being in this movie, what did we learn? Um? I'm 0:04:45.920 --> 0:04:52.640 still learning. I I learned that, um, the service is 0:04:52.760 --> 0:04:56.839 really beautiful. UM, I get a whole bit. Whole life 0:04:56.839 --> 0:04:59.640 is based on service. But it's usually with people that 0:04:59.720 --> 0:05:01.679 I know that I have a history that has a purpose. 0:05:02.360 --> 0:05:07.039 But I'll get an email from someone who's fifteen years 0:05:07.040 --> 0:05:15.279 old and had an abusive childhood and writes poetry and 0:05:15.520 --> 0:05:19.440 always depressed and what can I do? And I spend 0:05:19.440 --> 0:05:21.520 a few minutes either in an email or I talked 0:05:21.520 --> 0:05:24.920 to him, and I think I really helped their lives 0:05:24.960 --> 0:05:28.160 for that moment. It's all about the human connection and 0:05:28.200 --> 0:05:31.240 that it's been beautiful because I didn't really have that 0:05:31.279 --> 0:05:33.840 in my life before. I was so behind the curtains. 0:05:35.040 --> 0:05:37.240 You talk about your whole life, not only growing up, 0:05:37.279 --> 0:05:42.479 you were behind the curtains, emotionally, irrelevantive. Okay, so it's 0:05:42.520 --> 0:05:45.080 totally different. I mean, you grew up in the era 0:05:45.440 --> 0:05:47.920 I used the line of demarcations really the Beatles. There's 0:05:47.960 --> 0:05:49.960 before and after the peace and you were of the 0:05:50.000 --> 0:05:53.120 age and I was. We were conscious, but from six 0:05:53.720 --> 0:05:56.240 to let's say eighty, and then the empty v era 0:05:56.360 --> 0:05:59.920 was a twist upon this. If you were successful, everybody 0:06:00.040 --> 0:06:02.200 knew and there was a thin layer of what was successful, 0:06:02.360 --> 0:06:04.719 whereas today you can make a record, a movie, a book, 0:06:05.279 --> 0:06:09.520 and if you can have zero impact or you could have. 0:06:09.760 --> 0:06:12.640 The other thing is these things exist forever. Prior to 0:06:12.680 --> 0:06:16.120 the VCR, basically a movie was in the theaters, might 0:06:16.160 --> 0:06:17.960 go to the revival houses, but if you haven't seen it, 0:06:18.040 --> 0:06:20.040 it doesn't go on TV. It's like it doesn't exist. 0:06:20.080 --> 0:06:23.640 We're Superman continues to be on all these streaming services. 0:06:23.720 --> 0:06:27.080 So what is it like to be the featured person 0:06:27.240 --> 0:06:30.400 in that movie? Where movies tend to have less of 0:06:30.440 --> 0:06:32.719 an impact but longer of a life. I'm actually filling 0:06:32.720 --> 0:06:34.600 in the holes here. I'm more interested in what it's 0:06:34.600 --> 0:06:37.279 like being on your side of the equation. Yeah, it's Um, 0:06:37.320 --> 0:06:40.119 it's funny. Always really ever asked me, So I haven't 0:06:40.160 --> 0:06:45.360 really guarded there in my brain. But um I I UM, 0:06:45.880 --> 0:06:49.240 I'm sort of proud of myself. Um that your parents 0:06:49.240 --> 0:06:52.680 proud of you? Um, I have my answer. Yeah. I 0:06:53.080 --> 0:06:55.599 think my father was always very proud of me. Um. 0:06:55.640 --> 0:06:57.480 I think my mother became proud of me when I 0:06:57.480 --> 0:07:00.000 could afford to pay the rent exactly. But let's say 0:07:00.000 --> 0:07:02.160 even say that for later discussion. But you're proud of yourself, 0:07:02.200 --> 0:07:05.400 and I'm sort of proud of myself that Um that 0:07:05.800 --> 0:07:10.720 I that I take the time too to respond to 0:07:10.800 --> 0:07:15.000 people who who are in need. Um, I went, I 0:07:15.080 --> 0:07:17.240 went out to dinner last night. Was someone who was 0:07:17.280 --> 0:07:21.680 a staple of MTV, and this particular person got there 0:07:21.720 --> 0:07:24.200 before we did and sat in the corner of a 0:07:24.240 --> 0:07:28.200 restaurant in the b room. Obviously did not want to 0:07:28.240 --> 0:07:31.240 be recognized, wanted to have a night out. When you 0:07:31.360 --> 0:07:34.760 go out in Los Angeles, other where are you recognized? 0:07:34.960 --> 0:07:39.000 Sometimes not not overly, um, I mean, not pop star yet, 0:07:39.320 --> 0:07:41.680 but but I enjoy it when I yeah, I really 0:07:41.760 --> 0:07:43.680 enjoy it. Okay, let's go back to the beginning. You're 0:07:43.680 --> 0:07:46.600 from Buffalo from note from Long Island. I was born 0:07:46.640 --> 0:07:51.120 in Jackson Heights, raised on Long Island, the ocean side, 0:07:51.720 --> 0:07:55.239 right during that Levitt Town period um when middle class 0:07:55.960 --> 0:07:58.240 families were going out to a place where it was 0:07:58.280 --> 0:08:02.440 a backyard at basketball courts. It's um great, great place 0:08:02.480 --> 0:08:05.800 to be raised. Went from there to school. Your father 0:08:05.840 --> 0:08:08.200 did what for a living? My father was an accountant 0:08:08.240 --> 0:08:11.160 who never got his c p A. Because he just 0:08:11.200 --> 0:08:14.560 didn't bother No, he supported his family, his brother and 0:08:14.640 --> 0:08:17.000 his mother, and he just went right to work and 0:08:17.040 --> 0:08:19.160 just did his brother's mother, who was still growing up 0:08:19.160 --> 0:08:22.760 when he became an accountant. And your mother worked outside 0:08:22.800 --> 0:08:24.880 the home or not, yes, in the early days she did. 0:08:24.960 --> 0:08:27.920 She worked to the sales lady or whatever she could do. 0:08:28.080 --> 0:08:29.960 And you have a brother. I have a brother who's 0:08:30.000 --> 0:08:35.880 a veterinarian veterinarian, really older or younger older three years? Okay, 0:08:35.920 --> 0:08:38.400 so you're growing up. What's your life like out on 0:08:38.440 --> 0:08:42.280 the island. Um, it wasn't a happy life. I mean, 0:08:42.559 --> 0:08:44.920 I think you only know the life you have, so 0:08:45.000 --> 0:08:49.359 it's hard to tell what it is. Um. But in retrospect, 0:08:49.400 --> 0:08:52.480 it wasn't for me A very I always feel. I 0:08:52.520 --> 0:08:55.440 say that the first day of my life started at 0:08:55.440 --> 0:08:58.760 the University of Buffalo. That was my starting point before 0:08:58.760 --> 0:09:02.599 we get there, and that's important. You're growing up oceanside. 0:09:02.720 --> 0:09:04.959 Do you are you a popular kid? Do you have friends? 0:09:05.600 --> 0:09:09.280 Have friends? I wouldn't say popular. Um was it? I 0:09:09.360 --> 0:09:11.600 was on the golf caddy and on the golf team, 0:09:11.880 --> 0:09:16.439 played basketball, had some good friends. Um was Jewish, so 0:09:16.600 --> 0:09:21.080 got bullied. In those days that bullying was um part 0:09:21.080 --> 0:09:24.200 of the fabric, especially if you were Jewish. There was 0:09:24.200 --> 0:09:29.360 always somebody and you handled that. How cried. You're a 0:09:29.400 --> 0:09:33.240 pretty You're a physically someone imposing guy when you were 0:09:33.240 --> 0:09:35.160 growing up? Were you also a big guy? Talk? I 0:09:35.240 --> 0:09:37.360 was pretty big, but I was never a physical I 0:09:37.520 --> 0:09:39.240 never had to fight. My first fight in my life 0:09:39.400 --> 0:09:43.240 and only fight was Bill Graham. Okay, wait wait, wait, wait, 0:09:43.240 --> 0:09:47.040 what what's what's killed down there? What was that about? That? 0:09:47.160 --> 0:09:49.120 Was Bill like to have a fight at his shows? 0:09:49.520 --> 0:09:51.880 He was pretty famous for that. You know, he'd like 0:09:51.960 --> 0:09:54.319 to bought. He'd pull a guy out of the stage 0:09:54.400 --> 0:09:56.719 or have he had he had to do it it 0:09:56.840 --> 0:10:01.080 shows and um he promoted al Us in Phoenix at 0:10:01.120 --> 0:10:05.760 the Colisseum. Alice's father is a minister. And I come 0:10:05.840 --> 0:10:09.520 down and I see Bill Grab holding Alice's farther by 0:10:09.520 --> 0:10:13.840 the collar, putting them up against the wall. And I 0:10:13.960 --> 0:10:15.800 was a pretty big guy, and I was pretty rowdy, 0:10:15.880 --> 0:10:19.000 and I was you know, I used them substances to 0:10:19.040 --> 0:10:21.680 get me to places. And I said, you want to 0:10:21.679 --> 0:10:24.880 fight with someone, pal let's go. And we had a 0:10:25.360 --> 0:10:29.319 really we had a knockout, like through the doors Danny's 0:10:29.320 --> 0:10:33.840 Aleskoes first job as a security guard was that night 0:10:34.000 --> 0:10:36.280 at the show. For those who don't know, that's a 0:10:36.280 --> 0:10:40.199 constroma based in Arizona. That this first night working, he 0:10:40.280 --> 0:10:43.720 sees Bill Grab come flying through the doors. Then I 0:10:43.840 --> 0:10:46.439 come flying through the doors. Chairs of a flying thing 0:10:46.520 --> 0:10:49.280 to going The irony is though sometimes with bullies, if 0:10:49.320 --> 0:10:51.679 you stand up to them, that neutralizes it, and they 0:10:51.679 --> 0:10:53.840 liked it. I didn't give me a chance it was just, 0:10:55.240 --> 0:10:57.839 what was your relationship like after that? Oh, yeah, no problem, 0:10:58.160 --> 0:11:00.520 did he ever mention it? We'd off the battle a 0:11:00.559 --> 0:11:03.360 little bit, but they were there. Neither one who us 0:11:03.400 --> 0:11:06.760 really got hurt, a little bruise, a little this, and 0:11:07.800 --> 0:11:10.240 it was just it was over. So, how do you 0:11:10.280 --> 0:11:13.600 decide to go to the University of Buffalo Region scholarship 0:11:13.960 --> 0:11:17.720 furthest place in New York State Region scholarship you can 0:11:17.760 --> 0:11:21.520 only use in New York State universities. That was the 0:11:21.559 --> 0:11:25.120 farthest place from where I lived in New York State. 0:11:25.720 --> 0:11:27.719 For those peop don't know, Buffalo was really far. That's 0:11:27.720 --> 0:11:31.160 gonna be like, it was about a seven hour drive, 0:11:32.240 --> 0:11:34.280 eighty miles something like that. Okay, So you took the 0:11:34.320 --> 0:11:35.960 bus to go to college. If the bus met my 0:11:36.080 --> 0:11:39.679 partner Joe Greenberg, who was my partner up through Alice, 0:11:40.040 --> 0:11:43.560 probably more significant in the early days of Alice than 0:11:43.600 --> 0:11:46.200 I was um and we stayed. We met on the bus. 0:11:46.480 --> 0:11:50.199 We both were in the Greyhound bus station in Manhattan, 0:11:51.040 --> 0:11:53.720 both of us staying away from our parents, were sort 0:11:53.720 --> 0:11:55.760 of embarrassed to be with our parents. Who was that 0:11:55.920 --> 0:11:58.120 time in our life. And we sat next to each 0:11:58.120 --> 0:12:01.840 other on the bus and became buddies and partners and 0:12:02.800 --> 0:12:05.679 we both signed Alice together. Okay, so but you say 0:12:05.720 --> 0:12:09.520 your your life began first day of Buffalo. Amplify that 0:12:09.600 --> 0:12:11.360 a little, cause that was the first time I started 0:12:11.400 --> 0:12:15.000 to see that I had a life. That I didn't 0:12:15.000 --> 0:12:18.520 know what my life was. But I spent most of 0:12:18.520 --> 0:12:21.120 my life either on a basketball court or locked in 0:12:21.160 --> 0:12:23.880 my room. Um, those are the only two things I 0:12:23.960 --> 0:12:26.120 really knew. And now when I got to Buffalo, I 0:12:26.120 --> 0:12:28.720 had friends who could come to my house. Nobody could 0:12:28.720 --> 0:12:30.480 come to my house and the child because that my 0:12:30.520 --> 0:12:33.360 brother had this dog that bid people, so I never 0:12:33.400 --> 0:12:35.800 had anybody over. Now, all of a sudden, I'm living 0:12:35.800 --> 0:12:39.000 in a community of my peers and I can come 0:12:39.000 --> 0:12:44.319 out of my door. Um, that's mind blowing for me. Um, 0:12:44.520 --> 0:12:47.439 first time early my life that I had any social 0:12:47.480 --> 0:12:50.560 contact other than my father. Now this is pre internet, 0:12:50.559 --> 0:12:53.599 pre cable TV. And one could argue that Buffalo was 0:12:53.679 --> 0:12:55.800 kind of off the grid. Well, it was called the 0:12:55.840 --> 0:12:59.959 Berkeley of the East, very very liberal. I went to 0:13:00.360 --> 0:13:04.720 the first year it became a state university. Um, and 0:13:04.880 --> 0:13:06.920 it was that that they wanted to be the Berkeley, 0:13:06.920 --> 0:13:09.400 and they tipped. It was when the scales were tipping 0:13:09.400 --> 0:13:12.920 too far. So I had three courses taught by Dr 0:13:13.000 --> 0:13:18.920 Marty Kriegel. There were something, nothing and everything. Something. You 0:13:18.960 --> 0:13:23.520 brought a record and they would play one record. Anything, 0:13:23.640 --> 0:13:26.520 you brought two or more records. Nothing, you brought no 0:13:26.640 --> 0:13:28.480 records and just sat in the room for a half hour, 0:13:29.080 --> 0:13:34.040 and that was I got credits. Doesn't all the sixties? Sixties? 0:13:34.160 --> 0:13:37.839 I love it? Okay, But you will start college? What? Yeah, 0:13:37.880 --> 0:13:43.560 I graduate, So it must be that's a very transitional year. 0:13:43.840 --> 0:13:47.040 It's the Vietnam time. We burned down the Roxy building. 0:13:47.120 --> 0:13:50.560 It we met. Kennedy died the first year as a freshman, 0:13:51.000 --> 0:13:52.680 and I remember all of us meeting in the middle 0:13:52.720 --> 0:13:55.640 of the street, hugging each other and crying. And then 0:13:55.679 --> 0:13:59.920 we activated. We act. We actively fought against the war 0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:03.439 or in Vietnam. We didn't complain, we didn't get angry. 0:14:03.800 --> 0:14:07.160 We acted, which is what these kids in Florida are doing. Now. 0:14:07.200 --> 0:14:08.920 I'm gonna ask you about that. So what do you 0:14:08.960 --> 0:14:11.080 think about those kids? And I know you sponsored I am. 0:14:12.679 --> 0:14:16.720 I am so proud um to be on the same 0:14:16.720 --> 0:14:20.640 planet as these humans. Um. I was starting to lose 0:14:20.760 --> 0:14:26.240 faith in humans and seeing them and listening to them, 0:14:26.280 --> 0:14:29.560 I'm completely remotivated. Um so, what do you think happens? 0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:32.120 Because we live in a very divided country where half 0:14:32.160 --> 0:14:34.080 the country seems to say I can't believe what's going on, 0:14:34.560 --> 0:14:37.360 and then Trump and his minions just keep marching. You know, 0:14:37.480 --> 0:14:42.400 I think on the political reality side of life, it's 0:14:42.440 --> 0:14:45.320 a very dark moment. But that's my that's my view, 0:14:45.360 --> 0:14:47.280 and I know there are people who have different views. 0:14:47.880 --> 0:14:50.240 What these kids are doing that I think is so 0:14:50.440 --> 0:14:55.120 important is they're driving us back to democracy. So as 0:14:55.120 --> 0:14:57.840 opposed to I am, as I am to the things 0:14:57.920 --> 0:15:02.200 Trump is doing, and personally, I'm really post. If of 0:15:02.200 --> 0:15:05.880 the people in America voted for a dirty water, I 0:15:05.880 --> 0:15:08.160 could live with it, then maybe I choose to move. 0:15:09.160 --> 0:15:12.480 But and that's where they're focused. For me, the gun 0:15:12.520 --> 0:15:16.440 issue is the tip of the iceberg. It's really about 0:15:16.440 --> 0:15:20.280 getting the voice of the people back into our governing body. 0:15:20.560 --> 0:15:24.600 I mean, I wake up every morning angry, listening to 0:15:24.640 --> 0:15:28.760 the news and watching seeing these things, simple things like 0:15:29.120 --> 0:15:32.960 you can't the Census Bureau now can't tell you how 0:15:32.960 --> 0:15:38.760 many people were at the march. That's insane, you know, 0:15:38.880 --> 0:15:42.560 it's insane. There's almost a separate podcast, but The only thing, 0:15:43.560 --> 0:15:47.840 the only interesting thing is is that I wait in 0:15:47.880 --> 0:15:51.040 on this early and I was made aware of the 0:15:51.040 --> 0:15:57.040 blowback we're talking about. And so what I find is 0:15:57.160 --> 0:15:59.400 and even you know, the the election was called wrong 0:15:59.440 --> 0:16:01.880 by the New York Times many other things. Unless you 0:16:01.960 --> 0:16:04.840 have a name with a face, you were not coming 0:16:04.920 --> 0:16:08.480 up against these people who disagreed with you. And Frank 0:16:08.640 --> 0:16:11.960 rich Now at the New York magazine he says, because now, 0:16:11.960 --> 0:16:13.680 what are we gonna do about some people are saying, well, 0:16:13.760 --> 0:16:17.360 we should try to convince these people that their ideas 0:16:17.360 --> 0:16:20.440 are wrong. And then Frank which says, you can't do that. 0:16:20.560 --> 0:16:22.160 You just have to get out the vote. You have 0:16:22.240 --> 0:16:23.920 to get out of the vote. And so the interesting 0:16:24.000 --> 0:16:25.960 thing is we sit here and talk. You know, it's 0:16:26.000 --> 0:16:30.200 just like the demonstrations themselves. Will they make a difference. 0:16:30.360 --> 0:16:32.960 Having lived through the sixties, you're optimistic. Having lived through 0:16:33.000 --> 0:16:35.680 the last few decades, you're pessimistic. I think I think 0:16:35.680 --> 0:16:37.720 they have a real I think if there era has 0:16:37.720 --> 0:16:40.040 been a chance, this is a chance. And the things 0:16:40.080 --> 0:16:44.640 they're doing is so brilliant. I tried to support the 0:16:44.720 --> 0:16:46.600 kids of Maui to help him out, and we did 0:16:46.640 --> 0:16:51.480 a big benefit. We did a free concert. Jack Johnson 0:16:51.480 --> 0:16:55.440 play and Steven Tyler and Willie Nelson, Chris Christofferson all 0:16:55.520 --> 0:16:58.240 donated time said yes in a minute, and all of 0:16:58.320 --> 0:17:00.760 us talked about and we talked on stage. We had 0:17:00.760 --> 0:17:04.160 fifteen kids talking. Everybody's concern was how do we move 0:17:04.240 --> 0:17:06.840 forward and not how do we move forward to beat 0:17:06.920 --> 0:17:10.080 some political party. How do we move forward to get 0:17:10.119 --> 0:17:14.359 people to vote, because that's what makes our country so great. 0:17:14.760 --> 0:17:17.840 And it stopped in Mauie. We get fift vote to turnout. 0:17:17.960 --> 0:17:21.119 We have the lowest voted turnout in the world. Everybody stoned. 0:17:21.480 --> 0:17:23.560 It's wild. It's just they don't care. And then I 0:17:23.600 --> 0:17:26.359 don't think there's they realize that they can affect the 0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:28.359 world they live in. Well, I mean, after what happened 0:17:28.359 --> 0:17:30.200 in the year two thousand and in Virginia a couple 0:17:30.240 --> 0:17:33.440 of months ago, the individuals vote really does count, does count? 0:17:33.480 --> 0:17:35.560 So so what they did a couple of days ago, 0:17:35.760 --> 0:17:41.800 the kids from from Florida, they started an organization for kids, 0:17:41.800 --> 0:17:46.000 students who are under eighteen to get their parents and 0:17:46.040 --> 0:17:51.639 their grandparents to pledge to vote. White grandparents is going 0:17:51.720 --> 0:17:54.280 to say no to the twelve year old kid. None 0:17:54.520 --> 0:17:57.280 And in Maui. We're gonna take it one step further. 0:17:57.520 --> 0:18:01.280 We're going to provide transportation if you're under eighteen to 0:18:01.440 --> 0:18:04.000 pick up your parents and your grandparents and take them 0:18:04.000 --> 0:18:07.480 to vote, assuming they don't rig the voting. So that 0:18:08.080 --> 0:18:11.119 that's a whole other question. Yeah, that's hard for me 0:18:11.160 --> 0:18:13.639 to help. But you know, you know that I've actually 0:18:13.680 --> 0:18:16.639 experienced that, which growing up in Connecticut, I never had that. 0:18:16.640 --> 0:18:18.320 You want to go to vote, maybe wait five minutes, 0:18:18.720 --> 0:18:20.239 you can wait like an hour to vote. I mean, 0:18:20.280 --> 0:18:24.040 if you're someone that's responsibility. No, no, it's it's terrible thing. Okay, 0:18:24.200 --> 0:18:28.120 So you're at you be and you're thinking your future 0:18:28.240 --> 0:18:31.200 is going to be what. Um, I didn't know really 0:18:31.200 --> 0:18:35.480 at all, never thought about it. I um started in 0:18:35.680 --> 0:18:40.080 ub I started selling drugs. Um selling drugs as a 0:18:40.080 --> 0:18:42.119 hobby or saying this is a way to make money, 0:18:42.320 --> 0:18:45.280 way to make money. Yeah. And now this, of course 0:18:45.359 --> 0:18:47.760 is when most people harrow and his death, they don't 0:18:47.760 --> 0:18:50.920 know what marijuana is. And are you afraid at all 0:18:50.960 --> 0:18:54.639 of getting arrested? Um? No, absolutely, yeah, no, absolutely. It 0:18:54.720 --> 0:18:56.600 wasn't that I wanted to do and I just didn't 0:18:56.600 --> 0:19:01.240 ever resources and that it's voke. But my freshman year. 0:19:01.280 --> 0:19:03.600 I loved it. I wanted it for myself, and then 0:19:03.640 --> 0:19:06.840 people started asking, Um, so it made sense and I 0:19:06.920 --> 0:19:09.719 ran poker games. Okay, I have to ask because you're 0:19:09.720 --> 0:19:12.960 talking about Buffalo, and I'm not that Buffalo fluid. But 0:19:13.040 --> 0:19:16.320 a few in the early seventies, the Weinstein brothers were 0:19:16.359 --> 0:19:19.280 the concert promoters in Buffalo. I knew Harvey. Well that's 0:19:19.320 --> 0:19:21.400 the question. What was Harvey doing when you were in Buffalo? 0:19:21.400 --> 0:19:27.560 Probably the same thing, but I'll never tell what. But 0:19:27.600 --> 0:19:30.199 what was his day to day life? Harvey and Corky 0:19:30.240 --> 0:19:32.640 they had a promotion company even when you were there. Yeah, 0:19:32.680 --> 0:19:35.639 it was very successful. I think it maybe start at 0:19:35.640 --> 0:19:39.280 sixty sixty seven. Um, in the sixty this is right 0:19:39.280 --> 0:19:41.359 in the beginning. Um, I think I went to a 0:19:41.440 --> 0:19:45.480 James Brown show they did or something. So h Anyway, 0:19:45.760 --> 0:19:50.159 you're selling Marilana and running a poker game, running a 0:19:50.200 --> 0:19:55.000 poker game, and so you are inherently entrepreneurial. Yeah, I'm 0:19:55.359 --> 0:19:59.440 I'm now learning who I am. I'm learning about myself. 0:19:59.480 --> 0:20:03.000 I'm finding way to survive, um, things that I never 0:20:03.040 --> 0:20:06.760 really did before. So for me, this is again it's 0:20:06.800 --> 0:20:08.240 like the first day in my life and up seeing 0:20:08.240 --> 0:20:10.600 who I am. I'm starting to realize some of the 0:20:10.640 --> 0:20:13.440 skills that I have, although I don't think of as skills. 0:20:14.000 --> 0:20:16.639 I think of as life support at that time, and skills. 0:20:16.640 --> 0:20:21.520 Wasn't okay while you're there. Your parents checked out leaning 0:20:21.560 --> 0:20:24.840 on you. No, No, they were, they were. Um, they 0:20:24.880 --> 0:20:28.160 moved to Florida. My dad had a series had ten 0:20:28.240 --> 0:20:30.680 or eleven heart attacks. It was it was during the days, 0:20:30.680 --> 0:20:33.440 and they didn't have bypass or stints, so he would 0:20:33.560 --> 0:20:37.400 have that uhly nitro glycer in capsules which he took 0:20:37.440 --> 0:20:41.440 all the time. Um, and they moved out to Florida. 0:20:42.960 --> 0:20:45.199 I checked out of school on a psychiatric leave for 0:20:45.280 --> 0:20:49.439 six months, well a little slower. So how long were 0:20:49.480 --> 0:20:53.240 you in college before this happened. I was there three years, 0:20:53.280 --> 0:20:55.879 I think it was. So what was the psychiatric leave about? 0:20:56.080 --> 0:21:00.280 It was I had I always had teachers who gave 0:21:00.320 --> 0:21:05.080 me grades for giving him marijuana, and I had a 0:21:05.080 --> 0:21:06.920 couple of teachers pull out and I would have failed 0:21:06.920 --> 0:21:09.480 the causes and the only way to not fail him 0:21:10.000 --> 0:21:13.280 was to get a psychiatric leave. So okay, So there 0:21:13.359 --> 0:21:16.000 was no real psychiatric event, and so what did that mean? 0:21:16.040 --> 0:21:17.520 You gotta go away for six months? So I went 0:21:17.520 --> 0:21:19.720 down to Florida. I live with my parents. Um, they 0:21:19.720 --> 0:21:22.280 had a want a studio apartment, so I slept in 0:21:22.320 --> 0:21:25.879 a big closet. And how you know these are Jewish parents, 0:21:25.880 --> 0:21:29.119 How how do they feel about your absence from school? 0:21:30.080 --> 0:21:32.080 My mother was always tough on me. My father just 0:21:32.160 --> 0:21:35.560 loved me purely. It was like pure love. So he 0:21:35.560 --> 0:21:37.679 would go along with my mother. But and did you 0:21:37.720 --> 0:21:40.560 work when you were in Florida? So six months you're 0:21:40.880 --> 0:21:42.720 crying in your beer, so to speak. And then you 0:21:42.760 --> 0:21:44.080 go back to you be and then I go back 0:21:44.080 --> 0:21:47.359 to you be. Graduate. Um, I don't know what I'm 0:21:47.359 --> 0:21:50.600 gonna do? Was the sociology major? Not much you can 0:21:50.640 --> 0:21:53.800 really do. My cousin offered me a job in New York. 0:21:53.840 --> 0:21:58.080 He had a place called Divine Garments, which made suits 0:21:58.080 --> 0:22:01.919 and dresses for funerals. Um, so I knew I had 0:22:01.920 --> 0:22:03.639 a job. So I applied to the New School for 0:22:03.720 --> 0:22:07.000 Social Research because it had just started and I heard 0:22:07.040 --> 0:22:10.680 about him. By that point in my life, I started 0:22:10.760 --> 0:22:16.600 thinking of myself like on a white horse. Um, as 0:22:16.640 --> 0:22:19.560 you know, I'm going to save the day kind of guy. Um, 0:22:19.600 --> 0:22:21.280 just I don't know where that came from. What you're 0:22:21.280 --> 0:22:22.800 gonna and you're living in New York, going to a 0:22:22.840 --> 0:22:25.680 new school, working in the garment. You're gonna save who 0:22:25.720 --> 0:22:28.680