Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome to the Bob Left Sets podcast. My
Speaker 1: guest this week is super Mention himself, Jeff Gordon. Good
Speaker 1: to be here. Okay, you were the first time I
Speaker 1: might have seen you face to face and talk to you.
Speaker 1: Was that AIBA for those people don't know, that's a
Speaker 1: conference in Nashville primarily for fair grounds and you were
Speaker 1: being honored along with Alice Cooper and they gave you
Speaker 1: the word first and you said, I've learned in my
Speaker 1: career who's in front and I should be behind Coope
Speaker 1: And you really said almost nothing. That must have been
Speaker 1: two thousand and eight maybe, okay, but in the last
Speaker 1: handful of years you've been on a run of publicity.
Speaker 1: So what changed? Um? The documentary Mike Meyer is making
Speaker 1: that documentary. UM first to change because I had an
Speaker 1: obligation to promote it. UM. I I would have been
Speaker 1: hard to look in the mirror and not promote someone's work.
Speaker 1: After beating up all my artists to make sure they promote,
Speaker 1: they did their promotions. So that was the first wave.
Speaker 1: Very uncomfortable, UM making speeches. I have real self worth
Speaker 1: issues that come out strongly. UM. But I'm I found
Speaker 1: that I loved moderated discussions UM, so I went through
Speaker 1: my promotion part of the journey and enjoy the interaction
Speaker 1: as long as I didn't know the questions that were
Speaker 1: being asked. UM. It really was sort of like psychotherapy
Speaker 1: and really fun UM. And people would come in the
Speaker 1: audiences that I knew from past lives, so reconnected some stuff.
Speaker 1: And then when I thought it was over, I started
Speaker 1: to get a lot of young musicians, managers, UM, at
Speaker 1: risk people UM who were reaching out to me thinking
Speaker 1: that I had maybe some frozen food answer, that maybe
Speaker 1: I could make them happy and with two or three
Speaker 1: war words, And although I know I can't UM, I
Speaker 1: wanted to try and really fulfill them. I didn't want to,
Speaker 1: you know, UM, not give them some hope of a
Speaker 1: good life or a successful career. So I started responding
Speaker 1: to the people and that just led to more and
Speaker 1: more of it. And now I sort of I find
Speaker 1: myself in a really bizarre position of UM being an
Speaker 1: inspiration to so many young people and maybe not to
Speaker 1: myself all the time. Yeah, how does that cross with
Speaker 1: your self worth issues? Uh? It's really bizarre because it's
Speaker 1: it's I sort of step into the character and it's
Speaker 1: ironic because your biggest act is a character. No, I
Speaker 1: was gonna say, it's very much like Alice who steps
Speaker 1: in tell Us Cooper. For those who were just starting up,
Speaker 1: shep was the manager through the heyday and it's still
Speaker 1: the man it so you know, for him, he steps
Speaker 1: into Alice Cooper, he leaves Alice on the stage. And
Speaker 1: I found that sort of in that same thing. I
Speaker 1: try and I try and be that person that the
Speaker 1: documentary made it up here. I am, and there's certainly
Speaker 1: a part of me that are in that movie. But
Speaker 1: I'm a human. I mean, you know, I failed a
Speaker 1: million times, which is what I want these people to know. Um,
Speaker 1: and I've done a lot of stupid things and I
Speaker 1: don't have great self worth and I still got to
Speaker 1: where I wanted to be. Okay, But you also wrote
Speaker 1: a book. What was the inspiration? How did that come together?
Speaker 1: The book was really interesting? The book was I went
Speaker 1: to just about everything in my life is um knee
Speaker 1: jerk reaction. Although it appears that I'm very calculated. Um,
Speaker 1: I don't really plan, so I didn't think about doing
Speaker 1: a book. I got a lot of people asking me
Speaker 1: to do a book after the movie, but it wasn't
Speaker 1: even in my wheelhouse at all. But I went to
Speaker 1: Roy Choi chef here who started Kogi Trucks, who was
Speaker 1: one of my heroes, and he had a book come out,
Speaker 1: so I went. I wanted to support him. I happened
Speaker 1: to be in New York. I went to his book
Speaker 1: signing party and Anthony Bourdain was there, and he came
Speaker 1: over him and he said, I got to do your
Speaker 1: book with you. I have a publishing company. I published
Speaker 1: roy Choice book. I wouldn't be here if it wasn't
Speaker 1: for you. And I said why, why? What does that mean?
Speaker 1: He said, you made Emerald Lagas famous. I became famous
Speaker 1: by beating up Emerald Lagas. I owe you big time. Okay,
Speaker 1: so what did we learn? Although you've given a pretty
Speaker 1: good answer from suddenly coming out from the shadows and
Speaker 1: being in this movie, what did we learn? Um? I'm
Speaker 1: still learning. I I learned that, um, the service is
Speaker 1: really beautiful. UM, I get a whole bit. Whole life
Speaker 1: is based on service. But it's usually with people that
Speaker 1: I know that I have a history that has a purpose.
Speaker 1: But I'll get an email from someone who's fifteen years
Speaker 1: old and had an abusive childhood and writes poetry and
Speaker 1: always depressed and what can I do? And I spend
Speaker 1: a few minutes either in an email or I talked
Speaker 1: to him, and I think I really helped their lives
Speaker 1: for that moment. It's all about the human connection and
Speaker 1: that it's been beautiful because I didn't really have that
Speaker 1: in my life before. I was so behind the curtains.
Speaker 1: You talk about your whole life, not only growing up,
Speaker 1: you were behind the curtains, emotionally, irrelevantive. Okay, so it's
Speaker 1: totally different. I mean, you grew up in the era
Speaker 1: I used the line of demarcations really the Beatles. There's
Speaker 1: before and after the peace and you were of the
Speaker 1: age and I was. We were conscious, but from six
Speaker 1: to let's say eighty, and then the empty v era
Speaker 1: was a twist upon this. If you were successful, everybody
Speaker 1: knew and there was a thin layer of what was successful,
Speaker 1: whereas today you can make a record, a movie, a book,
Speaker 1: and if you can have zero impact or you could have.
Speaker 1: The other thing is these things exist forever. Prior to
Speaker 1: the VCR, basically a movie was in the theaters, might
Speaker 1: go to the revival houses, but if you haven't seen it,
Speaker 1: it doesn't go on TV. It's like it doesn't exist.
Speaker 1: We're Superman continues to be on all these streaming services.
Speaker 1: So what is it like to be the featured person
Speaker 1: in that movie? Where movies tend to have less of
Speaker 1: an impact but longer of a life. I'm actually filling
Speaker 1: in the holes here. I'm more interested in what it's
Speaker 1: like being on your side of the equation. Yeah, it's Um,
Speaker 1: it's funny. Always really ever asked me, So I haven't
Speaker 1: really guarded there in my brain. But um I I UM,
Speaker 1: I'm sort of proud of myself. Um that your parents
Speaker 1: proud of you? Um, I have my answer. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: think my father was always very proud of me. Um.
Speaker 1: I think my mother became proud of me when I
Speaker 1: could afford to pay the rent exactly. But let's say
Speaker 1: even say that for later discussion. But you're proud of yourself,
Speaker 1: and I'm sort of proud of myself that Um that
Speaker 1: I that I take the time too to respond to
Speaker 1: people who who are in need. Um, I went, I
Speaker 1: went out to dinner last night. Was someone who was
Speaker 1: a staple of MTV, and this particular person got there
Speaker 1: before we did and sat in the corner of a
Speaker 1: restaurant in the b room. Obviously did not want to
Speaker 1: be recognized, wanted to have a night out. When you
Speaker 1: go out in Los Angeles, other where are you recognized?
Speaker 1: Sometimes not not overly, um, I mean, not pop star yet,
Speaker 1: but but I enjoy it when I yeah, I really
Speaker 1: enjoy it. Okay, let's go back to the beginning. You're
Speaker 1: from Buffalo from note from Long Island. I was born
Speaker 1: in Jackson Heights, raised on Long Island, the ocean side,
Speaker 1: right during that Levitt Town period um when middle class
Speaker 1: families were going out to a place where it was
Speaker 1: a backyard at basketball courts. It's um great, great place
Speaker 1: to be raised. Went from there to school. Your father
Speaker 1: did what for a living? My father was an accountant
Speaker 1: who never got his c p A. Because he just
Speaker 1: didn't bother No, he supported his family, his brother and
Speaker 1: his mother, and he just went right to work and
Speaker 1: just did his brother's mother, who was still growing up
Speaker 1: when he became an accountant. And your mother worked outside
Speaker 1: the home or not, yes, in the early days she did.
Speaker 1: She worked to the sales lady or whatever she could do.
Speaker 1: And you have a brother. I have a brother who's
Speaker 1: a veterinarian veterinarian, really older or younger older three years? Okay,
Speaker 1: so you're growing up. What's your life like out on
Speaker 1: the island. Um, it wasn't a happy life. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think you only know the life you have, so
Speaker 1: it's hard to tell what it is. Um. But in retrospect,
Speaker 1: it wasn't for me A very I always feel. I
Speaker 1: say that the first day of my life started at
Speaker 1: the University of Buffalo. That was my starting point before
Speaker 1: we get there, and that's important. You're growing up oceanside.
Speaker 1: Do you are you a popular kid? Do you have friends?
Speaker 1: Have friends? I wouldn't say popular. Um was it? I
Speaker 1: was on the golf caddy and on the golf team,
Speaker 1: played basketball, had some good friends. Um was Jewish, so
Speaker 1: got bullied. In those days that bullying was um part
Speaker 1: of the fabric, especially if you were Jewish. There was
Speaker 1: always somebody and you handled that. How cried. You're a
Speaker 1: pretty You're a physically someone imposing guy when you were
Speaker 1: growing up? Were you also a big guy? Talk? I
Speaker 1: was pretty big, but I was never a physical I
Speaker 1: never had to fight. My first fight in my life
Speaker 1: and only fight was Bill Graham. Okay, wait wait, wait, wait,
Speaker 1: what what's what's killed down there? What was that about? That?
Speaker 1: Was Bill like to have a fight at his shows?
Speaker 1: He was pretty famous for that. You know, he'd like
Speaker 1: to bought. He'd pull a guy out of the stage
Speaker 1: or have he had he had to do it it
Speaker 1: shows and um he promoted al Us in Phoenix at
Speaker 1: the Colisseum. Alice's father is a minister. And I come
Speaker 1: down and I see Bill Grab holding Alice's farther by
Speaker 1: the collar, putting them up against the wall. And I
Speaker 1: was a pretty big guy, and I was pretty rowdy,
Speaker 1: and I was you know, I used them substances to
Speaker 1: get me to places. And I said, you want to
Speaker 1: fight with someone, pal let's go. And we had a
Speaker 1: really we had a knockout, like through the doors Danny's
Speaker 1: Aleskoes first job as a security guard was that night
Speaker 1: at the show. For those who don't know, that's a
Speaker 1: constroma based in Arizona. That this first night working, he
Speaker 1: sees Bill Grab come flying through the doors. Then I
Speaker 1: come flying through the doors. Chairs of a flying thing
Speaker 1: to going The irony is though sometimes with bullies, if
Speaker 1: you stand up to them, that neutralizes it, and they
Speaker 1: liked it. I didn't give me a chance it was just,
Speaker 1: what was your relationship like after that? Oh, yeah, no problem,
Speaker 1: did he ever mention it? We'd off the battle a
Speaker 1: little bit, but they were there. Neither one who us
Speaker 1: really got hurt, a little bruise, a little this, and
Speaker 1: it was just it was over. So, how do you
Speaker 1: decide to go to the University of Buffalo Region scholarship
Speaker 1: furthest place in New York State Region scholarship you can
Speaker 1: only use in New York State universities. That was the
Speaker 1: farthest place from where I lived in New York State.
Speaker 1: For those peop don't know, Buffalo was really far. That's
Speaker 1: gonna be like, it was about a seven hour drive,
Speaker 1: eighty miles something like that. Okay, So you took the
Speaker 1: bus to go to college. If the bus met my
Speaker 1: partner Joe Greenberg, who was my partner up through Alice,
Speaker 1: probably more significant in the early days of Alice than
Speaker 1: I was um and we stayed. We met on the bus.
Speaker 1: We both were in the Greyhound bus station in Manhattan,
Speaker 1: both of us staying away from our parents, were sort
Speaker 1: of embarrassed to be with our parents. Who was that
Speaker 1: time in our life. And we sat next to each
Speaker 1: other on the bus and became buddies and partners and
Speaker 1: we both signed Alice together. Okay, so but you say
Speaker 1: your your life began first day of Buffalo. Amplify that
Speaker 1: a little, cause that was the first time I started
Speaker 1: to see that I had a life. That I didn't
Speaker 1: know what my life was. But I spent most of
Speaker 1: my life either on a basketball court or locked in
Speaker 1: my room. Um, those are the only two things I
Speaker 1: really knew. And now when I got to Buffalo, I
Speaker 1: had friends who could come to my house. Nobody could
Speaker 1: come to my house and the child because that my
Speaker 1: brother had this dog that bid people, so I never
Speaker 1: had anybody over. Now, all of a sudden, I'm living
Speaker 1: in a community of my peers and I can come
Speaker 1: out of my door. Um, that's mind blowing for me. Um,
Speaker 1: first time early my life that I had any social
Speaker 1: contact other than my father. Now this is pre internet,
Speaker 1: pre cable TV. And one could argue that Buffalo was
Speaker 1: kind of off the grid. Well, it was called the
Speaker 1: Berkeley of the East, very very liberal. I went to
Speaker 1: the first year it became a state university. Um, and
Speaker 1: it was that that they wanted to be the Berkeley,
Speaker 1: and they tipped. It was when the scales were tipping
Speaker 1: too far. So I had three courses taught by Dr
Speaker 1: Marty Kriegel. There were something, nothing and everything. Something. You
Speaker 1: brought a record and they would play one record. Anything,
Speaker 1: you brought two or more records. Nothing, you brought no
Speaker 1: records and just sat in the room for a half hour,
Speaker 1: and that was I got credits. Doesn't all the sixties? Sixties?
Speaker 1: I love it? Okay, But you will start college? What? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I graduate, So it must be that's a very transitional year.
Speaker 1: It's the Vietnam time. We burned down the Roxy building.
Speaker 1: It we met. Kennedy died the first year as a freshman,
Speaker 1: and I remember all of us meeting in the middle
Speaker 1: of the street, hugging each other and crying. And then
Speaker 1: we activated. We act. We actively fought against the war
Speaker 1: or in Vietnam. We didn't complain, we didn't get angry.
Speaker 1: We acted, which is what these kids in Florida are doing. Now.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna ask you about that. So what do you
Speaker 1: think about those kids? And I know you sponsored I am.
Speaker 1: I am so proud um to be on the same
Speaker 1: planet as these humans. Um. I was starting to lose
Speaker 1: faith in humans and seeing them and listening to them,
Speaker 1: I'm completely remotivated. Um so, what do you think happens?
Speaker 1: Because we live in a very divided country where half
Speaker 1: the country seems to say I can't believe what's going on,
Speaker 1: and then Trump and his minions just keep marching. You know,
Speaker 1: I think on the political reality side of life, it's
Speaker 1: a very dark moment. But that's my that's my view,
Speaker 1: and I know there are people who have different views.
Speaker 1: What these kids are doing that I think is so
Speaker 1: important is they're driving us back to democracy. So as
Speaker 1: opposed to I am, as I am to the things
Speaker 1: Trump is doing, and personally, I'm really post. If of
Speaker 1: the people in America voted for a dirty water, I
Speaker 1: could live with it, then maybe I choose to move.
Speaker 1: But and that's where they're focused. For me, the gun
Speaker 1: issue is the tip of the iceberg. It's really about
Speaker 1: getting the voice of the people back into our governing body.
Speaker 1: I mean, I wake up every morning angry, listening to
Speaker 1: the news and watching seeing these things, simple things like
Speaker 1: you can't the Census Bureau now can't tell you how
Speaker 1: many people were at the march. That's insane, you know,
Speaker 1: it's insane. There's almost a separate podcast, but The only thing,
Speaker 1: the only interesting thing is is that I wait in
Speaker 1: on this early and I was made aware of the
Speaker 1: blowback we're talking about. And so what I find is
Speaker 1: and even you know, the the election was called wrong
Speaker 1: by the New York Times many other things. Unless you
Speaker 1: have a name with a face, you were not coming
Speaker 1: up against these people who disagreed with you. And Frank
Speaker 1: rich Now at the New York magazine he says, because now,
Speaker 1: what are we gonna do about some people are saying, well,
Speaker 1: we should try to convince these people that their ideas
Speaker 1: are wrong. And then Frank which says, you can't do that.
Speaker 1: You just have to get out the vote. You have
Speaker 1: to get out of the vote. And so the interesting
Speaker 1: thing is we sit here and talk. You know, it's
Speaker 1: just like the demonstrations themselves. Will they make a difference.
Speaker 1: Having lived through the sixties, you're optimistic. Having lived through
Speaker 1: the last few decades, you're pessimistic. I think I think
Speaker 1: they have a real I think if there era has
Speaker 1: been a chance, this is a chance. And the things
Speaker 1: they're doing is so brilliant. I tried to support the
Speaker 1: kids of Maui to help him out, and we did
Speaker 1: a big benefit. We did a free concert. Jack Johnson
Speaker 1: play and Steven Tyler and Willie Nelson, Chris Christofferson all
Speaker 1: donated time said yes in a minute, and all of
Speaker 1: us talked about and we talked on stage. We had
Speaker 1: fifteen kids talking. Everybody's concern was how do we move
Speaker 1: forward and not how do we move forward to beat
Speaker 1: some political party. How do we move forward to get
Speaker 1: people to vote, because that's what makes our country so great.
Speaker 1: And it stopped in Mauie. We get fift vote to turnout.
Speaker 1: We have the lowest voted turnout in the world. Everybody stoned.
Speaker 1: It's wild. It's just they don't care. And then I
Speaker 1: don't think there's they realize that they can affect the
Speaker 1: world they live in. Well, I mean, after what happened
Speaker 1: in the year two thousand and in Virginia a couple
Speaker 1: of months ago, the individuals vote really does count, does count?
Speaker 1: So so what they did a couple of days ago,
Speaker 1: the kids from from Florida, they started an organization for kids,
Speaker 1: students who are under eighteen to get their parents and
Speaker 1: their grandparents to pledge to vote. White grandparents is going
Speaker 1: to say no to the twelve year old kid. None
Speaker 1: And in Maui. We're gonna take it one step further.
Speaker 1: We're going to provide transportation if you're under eighteen to
Speaker 1: pick up your parents and your grandparents and take them
Speaker 1: to vote, assuming they don't rig the voting. So that
Speaker 1: that's a whole other question. Yeah, that's hard for me
Speaker 1: to help. But you know, you know that I've actually
Speaker 1: experienced that, which growing up in Connecticut, I never had that.
Speaker 1: You want to go to vote, maybe wait five minutes,
Speaker 1: you can wait like an hour to vote. I mean,
Speaker 1: if you're someone that's responsibility. No, no, it's it's terrible thing. Okay,
Speaker 1: So you're at you be and you're thinking your future
Speaker 1: is going to be what. Um, I didn't know really
Speaker 1: at all, never thought about it. I um started in
Speaker 1: ub I started selling drugs. Um selling drugs as a
Speaker 1: hobby or saying this is a way to make money,
Speaker 1: way to make money. Yeah. And now this, of course
Speaker 1: is when most people harrow and his death, they don't
Speaker 1: know what marijuana is. And are you afraid at all
Speaker 1: of getting arrested? Um? No, absolutely, yeah, no, absolutely. It
Speaker 1: wasn't that I wanted to do and I just didn't
Speaker 1: ever resources and that it's voke. But my freshman year.
Speaker 1: I loved it. I wanted it for myself, and then
Speaker 1: people started asking, Um, so it made sense and I
Speaker 1: ran poker games. Okay, I have to ask because you're
Speaker 1: talking about Buffalo, and I'm not that Buffalo fluid. But
Speaker 1: a few in the early seventies, the Weinstein brothers were
Speaker 1: the concert promoters in Buffalo. I knew Harvey. Well that's
Speaker 1: the question. What was Harvey doing when you were in Buffalo?
Speaker 1: Probably the same thing, but I'll never tell what. But
Speaker 1: what was his day to day life? Harvey and Corky
Speaker 1: they had a promotion company even when you were there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was very successful. I think it maybe start at
Speaker 1: sixty sixty seven. Um, in the sixty this is right
Speaker 1: in the beginning. Um, I think I went to a
Speaker 1: James Brown show they did or something. So h Anyway,
Speaker 1: you're selling Marilana and running a poker game, running a
Speaker 1: poker game, and so you are inherently entrepreneurial. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: I'm now learning who I am. I'm learning about myself.
Speaker 1: I'm finding way to survive, um, things that I never
Speaker 1: really did before. So for me, this is again it's
Speaker 1: like the first day in my life and up seeing
Speaker 1: who I am. I'm starting to realize some of the
Speaker 1: skills that I have, although I don't think of as skills.
Speaker 1: I think of as life support at that time, and skills.
Speaker 1: Wasn't okay while you're there. Your parents checked out leaning
Speaker 1: on you. No, No, they were, they were. Um, they
Speaker 1: moved to Florida. My dad had a series had ten
Speaker 1: or eleven heart attacks. It was it was during the days,
Speaker 1: and they didn't have bypass or stints, so he would
Speaker 1: have that uhly nitro glycer in capsules which he took
Speaker 1: all the time. Um, and they moved out to Florida.
Speaker 1: I checked out of school on a psychiatric leave for
Speaker 1: six months, well a little slower. So how long were
Speaker 1: you in college before this happened. I was there three years,
Speaker 1: I think it was. So what was the psychiatric leave about?
Speaker 1: It was I had I always had teachers who gave
Speaker 1: me grades for giving him marijuana, and I had a
Speaker 1: couple of teachers pull out and I would have failed
Speaker 1: the causes and the only way to not fail him
Speaker 1: was to get a psychiatric leave. So okay, So there
Speaker 1: was no real psychiatric event, and so what did that mean?
Speaker 1: You gotta go away for six months? So I went
Speaker 1: down to Florida. I live with my parents. Um, they
Speaker 1: had a want a studio apartment, so I slept in
Speaker 1: a big closet. And how you know these are Jewish parents,
Speaker 1: How how do they feel about your absence from school?
Speaker 1: My mother was always tough on me. My father just
Speaker 1: loved me purely. It was like pure love. So he
Speaker 1: would go along with my mother. But and did you
Speaker 1: work when you were in Florida? So six months you're
Speaker 1: crying in your beer, so to speak. And then you
Speaker 1: go back to you be and then I go back
Speaker 1: to you be. Graduate. Um, I don't know what I'm
Speaker 1: gonna do? Was the sociology major? Not much you can
Speaker 1: really do. My cousin offered me a job in New York.
Speaker 1: He had a place called Divine Garments, which made suits
Speaker 1: and dresses for funerals. Um, so I knew I had
Speaker 1: a job. So I applied to the New School for
Speaker 1: Social Research because it had just started and I heard
Speaker 1: about him. By that point in my life, I started
Speaker 1: thinking of myself like on a white horse. Um, as
Speaker 1: you know, I'm going to save the day kind of guy. Um,
Speaker 1: just I don't know where that came from. What you're
Speaker 1: gonna and you're living in New York, going to a
Speaker 1: new school, working in the garment. You're gonna save who
Speaker 1: and what? I don't even know, but I just a
Speaker 1: new school for social research would lead you to either
Speaker 1: a welfare worker or a probation officer. Those were the
Speaker 1: two jobs there were actually okay at the time when
Speaker 1: new school started. Was there actual degree program? Yes, it
Speaker 1: was no doctorate, but I think a master's um. And
Speaker 1: you paid for this house, um going to the vine
Speaker 1: garments so you can make it. Ye, maybe had a scholarship.
Speaker 1: I don't quite really remember. I do remember that the
Speaker 1: first blimpies was on the corner. So I had a
Speaker 1: blimpie sub a thing, all right, and it had great lighting.
Speaker 1: So I would study there a little bit. UM and
Speaker 1: a recruited came from California. From you felt I'm gonna
Speaker 1: be a probation officer. I didn't know what I was.
Speaker 1: I was gonna be something to help people. Um that
Speaker 1: that seemed to be my inclination. Um and a recruited
Speaker 1: came from the California Probation Department. It was during the
Speaker 1: Reagan era, he was governor, and they were really abusive
Speaker 1: to hippies. There were always pictures of them up against
Speaker 1: the wall. There was that big song some Flower in
Speaker 1: My Hair in San Francisco. So I always wanted to
Speaker 1: go to California. They came in and I said, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go do this job if I get accepted.
Speaker 1: And they accepted me. So I went out to California.
Speaker 1: It's a probation officer Los Petrinos Juvenile Hall. It's been
Speaker 1: an hour outside of l A still exists, which direction
Speaker 1: I don't remember, I don't even know it. Okay, so
Speaker 1: you get this at about an hour. Okay, at this
Speaker 1: point you fly to California, you drown, hitchhike to California
Speaker 1: only in the Yeah, hit shike maybe three quarters of
Speaker 1: the way, and end up somewhere along the way selling
Speaker 1: some acid to someone. So I had enough money to
Speaker 1: get an aeroplane ticket for the last quarter, then hitchhike
Speaker 1: in a friend of mine named Richie Lawrence, who just retired.
Speaker 1: He he ended up owning Abrahams, Ruby, Uff and Lawrence,
Speaker 1: the big commercial agency. He was. He'd gotten a job
Speaker 1: as a producer and I can't think of the name.
Speaker 1: That was one of the talk shows, Crane less crane
Speaker 1: talk show. So I slept on his floor until school
Speaker 1: till probation office started and went down. And the first day, UM,
Speaker 1: I had long hair past my shoulders. And the first
Speaker 1: day at the probation department, UM, they told me to
Speaker 1: take the kids out to play softball, but they didn't
Speaker 1: tell me I was going to be the softball and
Speaker 1: the kids. There were no other guys around, and the
Speaker 1: kids really kind to me. They could have hurt me,
Speaker 1: but they got around me. They started hitting me a
Speaker 1: little bit with the bats, and I knew this is
Speaker 1: I was set up. It was by this point I
Speaker 1: had some street smarts so for my stuff in Buffalo,
Speaker 1: so I knew they was set up. And I just
Speaker 1: went back in and took my badge off and said, okay,
Speaker 1: I'm leaving. So one day, you're not even a whole day.
Speaker 1: I didn't make the whole day. UM. Drive into l
Speaker 1: A and however it's still clearly getting in. I get
Speaker 1: off the freeway on Highland and I get trapped in
Speaker 1: the right lane where you can't keep going. So I
Speaker 1: make that right and now I'm on found on Franklin
Speaker 1: Avenue and there's a motel signed vacancy. So I had
Speaker 1: maybe five hundred dollars in my pocket and a couple
Speaker 1: of hundred hits of acid, and I pulled in. It
Speaker 1: was like thirty dollars for the night. Give me a
Speaker 1: room two two four up in the corner. I go
Speaker 1: up into the corner um and I take some of
Speaker 1: my products and uh, I hear a girl screaming, and
Speaker 1: I've just come from a jail. So I had never
Speaker 1: thought of anything but something bad. And I go down
Speaker 1: on my white horse. Did jew from Long Island saving
Speaker 1: the day? Here he comes to save the day. And
Speaker 1: I separate the two of them, and she punches me,
Speaker 1: and I've been hit again. It's like and she they
Speaker 1: were making love. It wasn't you know. It was a
Speaker 1: beautiful thing. And when I go down to the pool
Speaker 1: in the morning, the girl ends up being Janis Chopolin,
Speaker 1: just completely random, like okay, But I have to ask
Speaker 1: at this point, Jannis Chopolin is famous. When you went
Speaker 1: into the light of the day, do you realize it's
Speaker 1: Jannis Choplin. Yes, but I wasn't that much of a
Speaker 1: music free but but she was sitting with Jimmy Hendrix,
Speaker 1: which blew my mind. Almost speechless. Okay, so you certainly
Speaker 1: recognized and the Chambers brothers, UM and people I didn't know,
Speaker 1: who Paul Rothschild, who I got to know, who was
Speaker 1: a great producer for the doors, Um, who else? A
Speaker 1: couple of the Credens clear Water guys with it that
Speaker 1: day was it was called the Hollywood Landmark Motel. Sadly
Speaker 1: it's where Janice um. But it was rock and roll
Speaker 1: heaven for people who hadn't I didn't have in those days.
Speaker 1: There was no scale of economy, you know. Alice Alice
Speaker 1: played sold that Madison Square Garden in seventy two. It
Speaker 1: was a dollar fifty a ticket, so acts didn't make money.
Speaker 1: It wasn't like you made money. Chambers, whether it's cousins,
Speaker 1: slept in my car in the in the lot at
Speaker 1: the hotel, um and when I saw him. So now
Speaker 1: now it's I've been one day in probation department. I
Speaker 1: get hit at night. Now all of a sudden, I'm
Speaker 1: in front of Jimmy Hendricks, Janis Joplin, Credence clear Water,
Speaker 1: all these people, and my mind says to me, oh
Speaker 1: my god, I now have the greatest customer base for
Speaker 1: my business in the history of the world. Okay, Okay, okay,
Speaker 1: let's just go back. I want to go really slow.
Speaker 1: You're literally driving down Fountain and your Franklin okay, and
Speaker 1: nearly say that it could have been a different hotel
Speaker 1: in the whole story. Never gonna happen, It never happened,
Speaker 1: never happened. Okay, Well, return to this conversation with Chef Gordon,
Speaker 1: super mentioned manager extraordinaire in a moment. You're listening to
Speaker 1: the Bob Left Sets podcast, recorded here at the tune
Speaker 1: In Studios in Venice, California. Each week, I interview a
Speaker 1: new guest and dive into their lives and careers. If
Speaker 1: you enjoy listening to it, subscribe, rate, and review the show.
Speaker 1: Please also check out some of the earlier episodes, like
Speaker 1: my conversation with songwriter Diane Warren or they head of
Speaker 1: music for YouTube and Google, Lee or Cone. You can
Speaker 1: hear them all on tune in, Apple Podcast or your
Speaker 1: podcast player of choice. And now Morley, Chef Gordon, Okay,
Speaker 1: you obviously have a product these people want, absolutely, So
Speaker 1: then what happened? So we start a relationship, we become friendly.
Speaker 1: Um I saw you know, getting a little money, Um
Speaker 1: I buy a nineteen fifty four Cadillac limousine because I
Speaker 1: was a jerk, but I bought it. Chamber's brother's kids
Speaker 1: started sleeping in it. That cousins, and you're continue to
Speaker 1: live in the hotel. I'm in the motel. You lived
Speaker 1: in a motel for I think a year and a half,
Speaker 1: two year and one day. Was sitting around a pool
Speaker 1: and Jimmie Hendrick says, I think I had just gotten
Speaker 1: like a new watch or something. And Jimmie Hendrick says,
Speaker 1: what are you going to tell the police if they
Speaker 1: ask you? Where did you get the money for the
Speaker 1: rent in the car and this stuff? And I said,
Speaker 1: I'm a middle class kid from Long Island. The police
Speaker 1: don't ask you. And he said where I was raised.
Speaker 1: They asked you. You better have a story. He said
Speaker 1: you Jewish and I said yeah. And he said he
Speaker 1: should be a manager. All the managers are Jewish. And
Speaker 1: I said, great, who should I manage? And Lester says,
Speaker 1: I have this guy from Phoenix in my basement, Alice Cooper.
Speaker 1: I bet you if you give him ten dollars a week,
Speaker 1: you could be a manager. So Dallas tell us a
Speaker 1: story of Lester Cubby Gett is saying I found that
Speaker 1: jew is Lester cham Chambers. I don't give you ten
Speaker 1: dollars a week to be your manager. So they all
Speaker 1: come over to the motel and I give him all
Speaker 1: the bag. By that time, I was selling grass, also marijuana,
Speaker 1: and then I give him a bag of it if
Speaker 1: we go. Okay, you're the young jew from Long Island.
Speaker 1: Does Jimmy Hendricks and Janice job and they accept you.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Albert Grossman was their manager, right, but even
Speaker 1: before you, before you become the manager, you're an unknown
Speaker 1: quantity of a young age and I had what they wanted. Okay.
Speaker 1: So and you have the gift of gab. You ingratiated yourself.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that was okay. So at the time you
Speaker 1: become Alice and I made groupies. My first experience with
Speaker 1: groupies because those days it was free. Sex was part
Speaker 1: of the fabric. There was no age. It was the
Speaker 1: worst thing you got, okay, but you weren't famous. No,
Speaker 1: But I was in now, I was in that circle.
Speaker 1: I was in the hotel. The hotel was sort of
Speaker 1: the group they all, you know, girls thought if they
Speaker 1: could get to anybody in the hotel, then then maybe
Speaker 1: they could beat Jimmy exactly. Okay, so then you know
Speaker 1: you're very young at the time. But for those who
Speaker 1: have been around for a while, very few of these
Speaker 1: people live up to the image Jimmy Hendrix, Janis Joplin.
Speaker 1: They were. They were amazing to me. They were amazing
Speaker 1: to me. I mean, I can't say enough good stuff.
Speaker 1: They treated me like an equal. Um, help me and
Speaker 1: so many things. Yeah, I didn't know anything. I didn't
Speaker 1: know anything. So um, I said, what do I do?
Speaker 1: And they said, well, you get them jobs and you
Speaker 1: get him a record contract. How do I get them jobs?
Speaker 1: And let's just said, you know, we're playing a big festival.
Speaker 1: I forgot the name of in that, but I'll get
Speaker 1: I'll I'll tell our agent. They gotta put Alice on
Speaker 1: the show. And it was our first show. We played
Speaker 1: to like thirty or forty people down. No, it was
Speaker 1: I'm not really important. But okay, you obviously run out
Speaker 1: of product at some point, how do you know? No, no, no, uh,
Speaker 1: we had supplies. We we had you know, we had
Speaker 1: It was a business. Okay, So your supplies came from
Speaker 1: your usual connections. Okay, so you didn't have to find
Speaker 1: new connections in Los Angeles, which would raise your risk.
Speaker 1: Do you get involved with Alice Cooper? And is he
Speaker 1: already put out his records with Frank's APPA. He's done nothing,
Speaker 1: He's done nothing, Okay, so how do you get the
Speaker 1: deal with straight records? As soon as I meet Alice,
Speaker 1: he says to me, oh, by the way, Um, we
Speaker 1: played a couple of days ago for Frank's APPA and
Speaker 1: his manager, Herbie Cohne, offered us a deal and said
Speaker 1: he was going to manage us. So you have to
Speaker 1: tell him that you're doing it, not him Herb Cone,
Speaker 1: because I was giving a ten could be. So I
Speaker 1: go to Herb Cone office on will Chair Boulevard. Also
Speaker 1: living at the motel the Landmark with the G T
Speaker 1: O s who rolls together outrageously. I became very friendly
Speaker 1: with um. They would feed me um. They were great,
Speaker 1: great girls. UM. So I knew them. And I get
Speaker 1: to the lobby and they're in the lobby of Herb's
Speaker 1: office and what are you doing it? He manages us?
Speaker 1: Where on his lay? Wise that guy that I signed,
Speaker 1: Alice Cooper, he's on the label too, but I'm going
Speaker 1: to manage him. So I get called into hers What
Speaker 1: are you doing here. I said, I'm Alice Cooper's manager.
Speaker 1: He said, no, no, I'm Alice Cooper's manager. No no,
Speaker 1: they He ends up running after with a chair, screaming
Speaker 1: with the chair and uh Mrs Christie and Mercy and
Speaker 1: Pamela get in the middle of the here the screaming,
Speaker 1: run into the office and get me out of the office,
Speaker 1: and like stand between me and her while he's got
Speaker 1: a chair trying to hit me. Get me out of office.
Speaker 1: I get the Wow, this management thing is pretty weird.
Speaker 1: It's what everybody in l A. What's they hit me?
Speaker 1: And so we got through it. Um, it wasn't a
Speaker 1: great experience. The Frank Zapper error. Okay, so he a lot.
Speaker 1: He agrees to let you manage the band. You put
Speaker 1: out two records. This isn't in an era with as
Speaker 1: much less cacophony, so you could get noticed. But the
Speaker 1: records were not highly reviewed or did they sell well
Speaker 1: at the time. Don't completely god disasters, I think less
Speaker 1: their bangs. And Rolling Stone said, uh something. Walt Disney
Speaker 1: had the good sense to leaving the can So, okay,
Speaker 1: you had this deal. Was there any money involved in
Speaker 1: the deal? Nothing? And the records came out. I shouldn't
Speaker 1: say nothing. I think it was six thousand dollars was
Speaker 1: the minimum to make it legal, but they made deductions
Speaker 1: in the six thousand. We owed them money to make it.
Speaker 1: And then what was the being living on? Um my dealing? Basically? Okay,
Speaker 1: and two records that you know, the momentum is an
Speaker 1: heavy here. What are you still believing in the dream? Well?
Speaker 1: We we yes, because we had no other dreams. This
Speaker 1: has to work. This has to work, and we um
Speaker 1: we make a pact amongst us. I remember the conversation
Speaker 1: I had with him, which I said, listen, it took
Speaker 1: twelve guys or eleven or twelve. I'm not a religious
Speaker 1: guy to make Christianity. We don't have to be that big.
Speaker 1: We got six. I'll take care of the amount of people.
Speaker 1: We just got to believe because just like in Christianity,
Speaker 1: it's belief. It doesn't necessarily be reality. So if we
Speaker 1: believe strong enough, we are going to make this happen.
Speaker 1: And we all shook hands that we were going to
Speaker 1: stay together until we got to the place, and we, uh,
Speaker 1: how are we going to do it? That became the
Speaker 1: first conversation, Okay, how how are we going to do
Speaker 1: it obviously doing a record, which happen. That's none of
Speaker 1: that stuff is gonna work. And we talked about what
Speaker 1: what was our strength, and our strength was that everybody
Speaker 1: hated Alice Cooper. Um, we'd play holes, everybody would leave. Um,
Speaker 1: Lester Banks are saying it's something Walt Disney. So that
Speaker 1: that was our strength, which is not easy. When you're
Speaker 1: opening for the doors and you can get two thousand
Speaker 1: people to leave a building, that's not easy. So I said,
Speaker 1: you know, let's when I was in college at social
Speaker 1: at New School, one of the professors talked about he
Speaker 1: was talking about art and social culture and how, um,
Speaker 1: people's likes are very narrow. So when you pick up
Speaker 1: when when you deal with an art you have get
Speaker 1: a narrow audience. The things that get big our social waves.
Speaker 1: And he used the example of Elvis Presley. He said,
Speaker 1: when Elvis Presley's hips couldn't be shown on its sullivan
Speaker 1: he became an overnight success because he tapped into what
Speaker 1: every child goes through, which is rebellion of their parents. Um,
Speaker 1: it's the clothes, it's the music, it's it's everything. There's
Speaker 1: a there's a wave that every kid goes through a
Speaker 1: rebelling against the parents, and we said, well, wait a second,
Speaker 1: that's what we know how to do. We know how
Speaker 1: to get people to hate us. We can get those
Speaker 1: parents to say Alice Cooper is the most disgusting thing
Speaker 1: in the world. At breakfast, we will get the kids
Speaker 1: to do anything to go see Alice Cooper. Now, at
Speaker 1: this late day, there's been a re evaluation of those
Speaker 1: first two records more positive than it was at the time.
Speaker 1: But there is a gigantic leap between those first two
Speaker 1: records and Love It to Death. And one would say
Speaker 1: that no matter what the philosophy was, that you just
Speaker 1: lucidated without good music, and well, no, no, we realize that.
Speaker 1: So so that the first part was that, okay, here's
Speaker 1: our strength. So that led us to doing Alice Cooper.
Speaker 1: That led us to trying to do you know, going
Speaker 1: on stage naked to the chicken biting. But we also
Speaker 1: realized without great music, there's no way to make it.
Speaker 1: So in the same way we did that, we sat
Speaker 1: down and we said, okay, who is the least significant
Speaker 1: band and I don't mean this in a bad way,
Speaker 1: who's had the most amount of hit records? The Beatles
Speaker 1: had hit records, but they're significant. The Rolling Stones had
Speaker 1: hit records. That's significant. The guests who from Canada. It
Speaker 1: was a band. Nobody really knew they were making the
Speaker 1: greatest records ever American woman. Well, so we went to
Speaker 1: the back. The greatest records but not thought of as
Speaker 1: the real deal. So he said, who's doing these records?
Speaker 1: So we looked on the back. It was Jack richardson
Speaker 1: Nimbus nine Toronto. My partner and I got on an
Speaker 1: airplane and we flew to Toronto. We sat in his
Speaker 1: office for three days. He wouldn't even see us, but
Speaker 1: we made this guy was doing the record. And the
Speaker 1: back story is that he hired Bob Ezra two days
Speaker 1: before and the first thing he told Bob, and your
Speaker 1: first job is get these guys out of my office
Speaker 1: and do not say yes. But we got him to
Speaker 1: say yes, and he came to Max's Kansas City, he
Speaker 1: saw Alice. He said he would do it. We assumed
Speaker 1: we had Jack Richardson, which we did. He did do
Speaker 1: the first record. Jack and the rest of the sort
Speaker 1: of history before we go there. You talk about your partner,
Speaker 1: and you mentioned it earlier, but how did you You're
Speaker 1: living in l a in the Landmark. How is your
Speaker 1: partner moved in with me? So you called him up
Speaker 1: and said, hey, you gotta come out here? And how
Speaker 1: what was the division of labor um? I think he
Speaker 1: carried much more of the ball than I did. Probably
Speaker 1: in the beginning days. He got Alice's first show with
Speaker 1: Bill Graham and San Francisco, opening for Icentina Turner. He
Speaker 1: did tell him that Alice was a female folk singer,
Speaker 1: and Bill threw him off the stage. His exact line was,
Speaker 1: on I fucking stage, you either do music or you act.
Speaker 1: You're not doing both of them on my fucking stage.
Speaker 1: Get out of here. Really, how long did it last
Speaker 1: with you and Joe? I'm less than until I would
Speaker 1: say seventy five? End um. We had some personal issues.
Speaker 1: We ended up flipping a coin, one person to take
Speaker 1: the business, one person to take the money, and he
Speaker 1: won the coin flip and he chose the money. If
Speaker 1: you would won the coin flip, would you have taken
Speaker 1: the money? Probably? Yeah? Okay, So you get involved with
Speaker 1: Bob bes Wind and Jack Richardson does Love It to
Speaker 1: Death album. Now that record doesn't do the album he does.
Speaker 1: It's more complicated than that. So I go to my
Speaker 1: representative at Warners, Clyde Bachimo, and say I got Jack Richardson.
Speaker 1: He's agreed to do four tracks, start the record and
Speaker 1: see how it goes. And Clyde's flipped out. He said,
Speaker 1: we've been trying to get to do business with Jack
Speaker 1: Richard Are you kidding me? That is the greatest thing.
Speaker 1: And then he called him back and he says, we
Speaker 1: can't do it. Herb Cone won't allow it. What do
Speaker 1: you mean? Her conelt he doesn't want to hit. He's
Speaker 1: scared you've gotta hit. What never made sense to me
Speaker 1: too till years later, Right, so what was the sense?
Speaker 1: What what happened was And I'm not looking for a lawsuit,
Speaker 1: but Herb and his brother were dead. Yeah, so so
Speaker 1: what happened as I put the pieces together. Herb and
Speaker 1: the head of Warner Brothers Records at the time, More Austin,
Speaker 1: were very good friends. And I don't mean to denigreat
Speaker 1: Mo at all. Life is life. You do what you
Speaker 1: have to do U. And they used to travel to
Speaker 1: France every year. Herb had an apartment in France they
Speaker 1: stayed in. They brought drugs together, they did a lot
Speaker 1: of things together. They were very very close. Warner Brothers
Speaker 1: gave her and Frank's Appa label UM and a lot
Speaker 1: of money, and that money was to record albums. The
Speaker 1: way the way record deals worked was if you had
Speaker 1: a label, maybe they'd commit to four artists, two albums.
Speaker 1: Each artist would be a budget. In our case, the
Speaker 1: budget but I think two hundred thousand record UM. So
Speaker 1: now they have an eight album distribution deal. And let's
Speaker 1: say it's two hundred thousand a record, that's a million six. Well,
Speaker 1: if they only spend one dollar on the record, that
Speaker 1: million six goes in their pocket. So if you look
Speaker 1: at the artists the Bizarre signed, it was wild Man Fisher,
Speaker 1: who didn't have a band, didn't play a guitar, was
Speaker 1: in an insane asylum. The g t o S who
Speaker 1: are in a group Alice, who everybody thought was the
Speaker 1: laughing stock of the world. There was no chance these
Speaker 1: guys were ever going to sell one record. We did
Speaker 1: our first album. We showed up at Whitney Studios to
Speaker 1: work with Frank's Appa. He came at nine o'clock, introduced
Speaker 1: us to his brother. The band thought they would rehearsing.
Speaker 1: He came back at five o'clock took the tapes and
Speaker 1: that was the end of the album. That was it.
Speaker 1: It was nine o'clock to five o'clock. So he pocketed
Speaker 1: a lot of money. The only way he would have
Speaker 1: to give up that money if anybody sits the producers,
Speaker 1: if anybody sold records. So the last thing he wanted.
Speaker 1: We ended up in a major lawsuit because a team
Speaker 1: came out of those four tracks and the label change
Speaker 1: probably twenty times because I would I would go in
Speaker 1: and say, you're not putting this out on straight. He
Speaker 1: wouldn't pay for it, um, And then he would go
Speaker 1: in and MO would call me up, I gotta put
Speaker 1: it if I have to put it on straight, um.
Speaker 1: So the label changed the copy I have sets straight, Yeah,
Speaker 1: and there's a lot of Warner Brothers ones so um.
Speaker 1: But in any event, he does four tracks and Edrind
Speaker 1: does uh the rest of the track, and I think
Speaker 1: Edd's part of it. I think they sort of do
Speaker 1: it together. But what happened was one of the reasons
Speaker 1: that I wanted Richardson so bad was because there was
Speaker 1: Canadian content and c KALW was the breakout station in America.
Speaker 1: It was out of Canada, but Wixie in Cleveland and
Speaker 1: Rosemary Trumbley, who was programming with c KLW. If she
Speaker 1: played a record, you had a hit. And by doing
Speaker 1: it in Canada with Jack Richardson, we came under the
Speaker 1: Canadian content rule and she had a place seventy five
Speaker 1: or eight percent Canadian content, and that got us on
Speaker 1: and when it went on the radio, Um, you could
Speaker 1: still manipulate sales. You know you you knew the record
Speaker 1: stores were the singles were, so you could send people
Speaker 1: into buy them. And I had every relative I had
Speaker 1: in the world, and every Alice relative calling c kl W,
Speaker 1: A hundred times of data requested and it just popped
Speaker 1: and then it took off on its own. But a
Speaker 1: good album, nonetheless, dream Oh My Out of Dwight, Okay,
Speaker 1: but suddenly you have airplay. But to someone who's not
Speaker 1: involved in the center, it doesn't. It looks like it's
Speaker 1: more than a blip, but not a whole hell of
Speaker 1: a lot more than a blip. Okay, So what's the
Speaker 1: thought after that? Everything all the same, The thought is
Speaker 1: all the same. It's where the more power we're getting,
Speaker 1: the easier it's going to be for us to hear
Speaker 1: atate parents. So we now have a record that's starting
Speaker 1: to hit. I do. I get Barbara gear Warners, who
Speaker 1: by now is having a little faith in me, to
Speaker 1: do a coming out party at the Ambassador Hotel for
Speaker 1: a debutante named Alice Cooper. We don't tell the hotel,
Speaker 1: we don't tell anyone. Um, and you get up to
Speaker 1: what we invide all the music people that Bob calls everybody,
Speaker 1: you know, the important people, and said, you've got to
Speaker 1: be here for this. You won't believe it. And it's
Speaker 1: debutante season and everybody's at the Ambassador. Well every debutant
Speaker 1: party is. So you pull up to the thing in
Speaker 1: it the dis these girls would trade to meet you.
Speaker 1: They weren't girls. They were the cockettes from San Francisco, transvestites.
Speaker 1: And this is in seventy um with cigars, cigarettes vasiline,
Speaker 1: which I still love. Then there were guerrillas. The entertainment
Speaker 1: was TV Mama, who was four d pounds who came
Speaker 1: out of a cake. Um. I went over to her
Speaker 1: manager during the afternoon and I said, is there any
Speaker 1: way we could get TV Mama to take her top off?
Speaker 1: And he said to me, Son, to you, she's TV Mama.
Speaker 1: To me, she's TV dinner. That would be two hundred
Speaker 1: extra and we have a great picture of her breast
Speaker 1: hitting am it her again in the face of the
Speaker 1: front row. And that started the journey. And then we
Speaker 1: just did everything we could to tell how people say,
Speaker 1: this is the most disgusting thing I've ever seen. That
Speaker 1: was our That was what we wanted for us. Winning
Speaker 1: was getting a parent at the breakfast table to tell
Speaker 1: their kids if they ever here. I'm listening to Alice Cooper,
Speaker 1: they grounded for a month and to what degreed do
Speaker 1: you believe? The success of hip hop today is based
Speaker 1: on the same theory, exactly the same theory. I can
Speaker 1: remember I walked I have four adopted kids. I walked
Speaker 1: past their room at one o'clock in the morning, I
Speaker 1: heard for the first time wrap in hip hop. I
Speaker 1: opened the door and I said, how can you listen
Speaker 1: to this ship? And as I said it, I looked
Speaker 1: at him and I said, oh God, here's the next wave.
Speaker 1: Well staying here, you know, of course, of course, you know,
Speaker 1: we used to have a new sound every three years.
Speaker 1: You know, we had here being music replaced by Seattle
Speaker 1: Sound in the twenty one century. It hasn't gone down
Speaker 1: that way. But the same tiking people are aging every day.
Speaker 1: So we have parents who grew up with hip hop.
Speaker 1: This may not be your number one focus this days,
Speaker 1: but you're certainly a sociologist. Is something going to come
Speaker 1: along to bump off hip hop? Oh yeah, I think.
Speaker 1: I think you see the edge sharing, you start seeing
Speaker 1: real songs coming back. There's definitely gonna be a reaction.
Speaker 1: I don't know what it is, but there's always a reaction. Okay.
Speaker 1: So from my viewpoint as an avid fan and music
Speaker 1: drove the culture back then. We were all aware of
Speaker 1: the song I'm eighteen, heard a little bit and then
Speaker 1: it is the end of nineteen seventy one and in
Speaker 1: a boxed out review in Rolling Stone, Lester Bangs gives
Speaker 1: a rave of Alice Cooper's Love It to Death and
Speaker 1: they at the time, uh, rolling Stone was famous for
Speaker 1: doing hoaxes. They had the Great White Wonder. This was
Speaker 1: such an over the top rave, Great White Wonder exactly
Speaker 1: that you said, I'm going to buy this record even
Speaker 1: if it sucks, because i want to see what's going on.
Speaker 1: I remember literally buying the record, dropping the needle on
Speaker 1: under my wheels, and you got it immediately. The Great
Speaker 1: White One. The financed us buying all our amplifiers. I was,
Speaker 1: I did the Great White One there, okay, well tell
Speaker 1: my audience what that is. Great White There was a
Speaker 1: time in the history of copyright lore where it was
Speaker 1: not illegal to record a live concert and sell it.
Speaker 1: So I was able to record Rolling Stones Bob Dylan
Speaker 1: and sell it, sell it legally. We did it in
Speaker 1: white album jackets and the Great White One that was
Speaker 1: I think Dylan. I don't remember which was which, Um,
Speaker 1: but we did Rolling Stones. We did a bunch and
Speaker 1: then the copyright law changed. Was that when it was
Speaker 1: seventy that's wild? Yeah, okay, so did you ever get
Speaker 1: in trouble? I had one interesting moment I had done
Speaker 1: Oh that's that's right. So it's seventy two. I had
Speaker 1: done the Toronto Pop Festival, which was seventy two and
Speaker 1: with John Lennon and the co promoters were people who
Speaker 1: owned the big department store chained the Eatons in Canada
Speaker 1: and a film named Kenny Walker. And um, they knew
Speaker 1: I was did the Great White One because it was legal,
Speaker 1: so I wasn't hiding it from anyone, and they called
Speaker 1: me up to buy the master tapes. They offered me
Speaker 1: two hundred thousand dollars, which was a lot of money.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, master tapes. I had everything, even thought
Speaker 1: about thousand dollars um. And I said to him, you
Speaker 1: know there are no master tapes, and he said, I
Speaker 1: don't care. I want to buy the master tapes from it.
Speaker 1: And I just my streets nose went up. So I
Speaker 1: went to a lawyer named David Ruddick. I don't know
Speaker 1: if you remember him. He he was on Sunset Boulevard
Speaker 1: as a music business attorney. I told him the story.
Speaker 1: I said, what could they be trying to do? Why?
Speaker 1: And they won't come to me. I have to go
Speaker 1: to them. And he said, you know, the only thing
Speaker 1: I can think of is if you bring something at
Speaker 1: the Canada and you sell it for two hundred thousand
Speaker 1: and you didn't report it, that's a serious thing, he said.
Speaker 1: So I'll tell you what to do, he said. I
Speaker 1: had a customer, Sam, the record man. He was one
Speaker 1: of my big customers for the Great White One. There.
Speaker 1: So I went, I flew up. I went to Sam's
Speaker 1: over the counter, bought Great White One. They got a
Speaker 1: receipt for it. I went to a recording studio in Toronto,
Speaker 1: took that record, put it on a piece of tape,
Speaker 1: got a bill from the recording studio, so now legitimize legitimized.
Speaker 1: I go to the hotel on Avenue Road whose name
Speaker 1: I can't think of, and I walk into the suite
Speaker 1: where the exchange is going to be made, and Kenny
Speaker 1: Walker and then come in and have a suitcase two
Speaker 1: hundred thousand knowledge Canadian. They open it up, I give
Speaker 1: him the tape and Alan Klein comes out of the
Speaker 1: bathroom with four maltis. Alan Clyde was the Beatles manager
Speaker 1: and I had done Beetles and rolling stones were part
Speaker 1: of the come out. They put handcuffs on me and
Speaker 1: my partner Joe, because we were still partners then, and uh,
Speaker 1: we say listen, we knew what they were up to.
Speaker 1: They take us to the station house and I said, oh,
Speaker 1: lawyer knew exactly what they were doing. I said, unless
Speaker 1: you have a law in Canada that it's illegal to
Speaker 1: get two hundred thousand for something that's worthless. Here's the receipt.
Speaker 1: We bought it at Sam the record man. Here's the
Speaker 1: receipt for the studio. They took about half an hour
Speaker 1: a prosecutor came. We waited for him to come. You
Speaker 1: look through the receipts and they let us go. It's
Speaker 1: the last time I ever saw Alan Klein and you
Speaker 1: didn't get to stay right there, We'll be back with
Speaker 1: more of Chef Gordon, legendary manager of rock stars chefs
Speaker 1: and even Groucho Marks right here on the Bob left
Speaker 1: Sets podcast. Hi, this is Bob left Sets. My guest
Speaker 1: come to the tune In studios in Venice, California to
Speaker 1: have these conversations with me. And if you ever want
Speaker 1: to see what they look like where we take the show,
Speaker 1: check out the photos and videos search at tune In
Speaker 1: on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram. Let's dive right back in
Speaker 1: with my guest, Sheep Gordon. So, uh, now Killer comes out.
Speaker 1: You start to feel the momentum. Yeah yeah, we could
Speaker 1: feel it, off of it to death, but we couldn't
Speaker 1: turn it into monetary success um. Killer. We start, you know,
Speaker 1: billion dollar babies Killer. We start to really fuel our oats.
Speaker 1: Now we're in stride and having a good time, okay,
Speaker 1: and then of course the tipping point is schools Out,
Speaker 1: which becomes an anthem and says everything we've focused all
Speaker 1: that angst for us, it was like doing a Who
Speaker 1: song that was sort of the top of the wrong
Speaker 1: was that Who? Who knew how to do anthems of rebellion? Okay,
Speaker 1: you had all these innovative packages, you know, whether it
Speaker 1: be Muscle of Love with certain stains on the box
Speaker 1: or whether it be the panties on. That was one
Speaker 1: of my biggest mistakes in my career with Alice, was
Speaker 1: that box. Why? Because I didn't realize that the thickness
Speaker 1: in those days, most of your sales were rack sales,
Speaker 1: which means you walked into a store that wasn't a
Speaker 1: record store and they have twenty or thirty records in
Speaker 1: the stack. I could only do if it held twenty,
Speaker 1: I could only do ten. So my Alice's bins were
Speaker 1: empty all the time because they only were read. However,
Speaker 1: as a big fan, that album was not as good
Speaker 1: as its spread us, and I think that was part
Speaker 1: of it. Also. It was it was when the group
Speaker 1: was starting to come apart. Okay, Bob Green goes on
Speaker 1: the road, writes a book. How does that come still?
Speaker 1: And the book still holds up? But how does that
Speaker 1: come together? Comes together? My idea, I think he had
Speaker 1: done a book on the Kennedy campaign on and I
Speaker 1: wanted real credibility for Alice. UM. I felt that it
Speaker 1: was time to now go from hatred of the parents
Speaker 1: to put some steaks in the ground and a book
Speaker 1: by a guy who did the Kennedy thing to me
Speaker 1: was putting a stake in the ground. And the same
Speaker 1: thing with the golf uh no golf. I that was
Speaker 1: to help him with this alcoholism. I knew it was
Speaker 1: difficult for his career, um, and a truth to be
Speaker 1: very difficult for his career. Okay, so then the band
Speaker 1: breaks up, there's a solo album. What's really going on
Speaker 1: at that point? You know, Um, it's really interesting. Living
Speaker 1: in the bubble of stardom is really tough. UM. I
Speaker 1: have a lot of sympathy for it, and and it
Speaker 1: became very different points of view on the success. UM.
Speaker 1: The rhythm of a day was that Alice would get
Speaker 1: up at eight o'clock or nine o'clock in the morning,
Speaker 1: drink all day, but work all day. He would do
Speaker 1: fifty interviews every day because it was everywhere in the
Speaker 1: world and we was so hot, and he was the
Speaker 1: only one who really could do good interviews. So he
Speaker 1: was our focal point. We early on in the career,
Speaker 1: um we met it. We maybe ten weeks after I
Speaker 1: had met him, we went to a lady named pat
Speaker 1: King police office, who she was the PR person, and
Speaker 1: we had this idea about parents hating. I said, who's
Speaker 1: the best person to do with? Someone gave me her name,
Speaker 1: she was gracious enough to meet me. I've brought the
Speaker 1: band with me and after I talked to she has
Speaker 1: the band, to go out in the lobby and she said, listen, Chef,
Speaker 1: give me one person named now. Because Alice was named Vincent,
Speaker 1: he wasn't. Oh okay, So what point in the career
Speaker 1: did this is it? I'm going to tell you the story.
Speaker 1: So she said, they're going to lobby. Says, Chef, you
Speaker 1: gotta give me one person named Alice Cooper. I don't
Speaker 1: know how to make five guys with a girl's name famous.
Speaker 1: You give me one of them that I know how
Speaker 1: to do. It's the right time. You have a great idea.
Speaker 1: So I go out in her lobby and I said, listen, guys,
Speaker 1: we gotta pick one of you to be Alice Cooper.
Speaker 1: Because she said, that's you know the way it's gonna work.
Speaker 1: And she's great, and right there in the lobby we
Speaker 1: picked Alice. This is before any records. This is before anything. Okay,
Speaker 1: So now, no, no, I think it's maybe after the
Speaker 1: first record. If you look on the first couple of records,
Speaker 1: I think it's Vincent Fernie. It's not Alice Cooper, I believe. Okay,
Speaker 1: So what point does the band wake up and say, hey,
Speaker 1: wait a minute. So I'm gonna tell you what the
Speaker 1: rest of it. So he's working hard all day. So
Speaker 1: but but right at that point, shortly thereafter, we sit
Speaker 1: him all down and Alice in the group and I say, listen,
Speaker 1: we're going to change his name illegally, which means you
Speaker 1: guys are in real jeopardy. But um, what we need
Speaker 1: to do right now we shake hands. The tour all millionaires.
Speaker 1: Nobody is leaving this thing. Once you're all millionaires. We
Speaker 1: sit and talk, but and I was very focused on Alice,
Speaker 1: basically saying, we're giving you the gauntlet. You're not taking
Speaker 1: this right away from us. This is like you know, um,
Speaker 1: And we all shook hands on it. So we got
Speaker 1: to the point where we were almost million airs maybe
Speaker 1: we had three hundred four, which was like millionairess not
Speaker 1: even know if we had that much, but everyone now
Speaker 1: could afford a car. Now for the first time, they
Speaker 1: were all living on their own. Wasn't a group house. Um.
Speaker 1: We were able to fly places. I didn't have to
Speaker 1: bounce checks. We were starting to really make it and
Speaker 1: you could see on the horizon. Nine seventy two they
Speaker 1: had the biggest tour in the world. Led Zeppelin was
Speaker 1: the second big so he could see it's we're right there.
Speaker 1: And the guys asked me if I would come to
Speaker 1: a meeting. They never asked me to come to a meeting.
Speaker 1: And I go up to Connecticut and I sit down
Speaker 1: and they just fomb it out. They said that, Um,
Speaker 1: I had let me back up. I had this running
Speaker 1: battle with him for the year previous, which was every
Speaker 1: night they wanted to just do the show in dungarees
Speaker 1: and not do the theatrics, and every night I would
Speaker 1: have to get really intense about you know, think about
Speaker 1: the people in the audience, what they're here for, or
Speaker 1: forget yourselves. Um and I beat him into it. But
Speaker 1: it wasn't a happy thing. It was. It got to
Speaker 1: be very intense every night, and that was what the
Speaker 1: meeting was about people don't appreciate our music. They think
Speaker 1: of as a novelty. Alice gets all the attention. We
Speaker 1: wanted to leave. We want to break up. We want
Speaker 1: to put it on hold for a year or two
Speaker 1: and do our own records so people will see that
Speaker 1: we're really talented musicians. And my take on it was, hey,
Speaker 1: we shook hands. It was so close, like, let's just wait,
Speaker 1: and they wouldn't do it. Um, And I said, you know,
Speaker 1: I said, I'm gonna go with Alice. I'm not going
Speaker 1: to be part of your guys journey. It's not First
Speaker 1: of all, I don't break my word. Secondly, I don't
Speaker 1: really know what you do. Um. I know you know. Um.
Speaker 1: And we never had a right, we never had an argument.
Speaker 1: We're still all friendly. They just played shows with England. Um. Okay.
Speaker 1: So slowly the band walked from Alice. So at what
Speaker 1: point did the band, because these are human beings, have
Speaker 1: sour grapes. I don't know, but I'm sure fairly soon.
Speaker 1: And did they ever come crawling back? Oh? No, that
Speaker 1: we've both it's not a matter of crawling or anything.
Speaker 1: We've been really good friends. Um. There's never been a
Speaker 1: moment of anything but friendship and respect for each other.
Speaker 1: They made a bad decision. They made a bad decision,
Speaker 1: but they didn't knock on the door ready to be
Speaker 1: the backing big they'd love to be back in Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: but no reason. So why in the last couple of
Speaker 1: years have they suddenly been playing with Alice? Because it's
Speaker 1: a really nice thing to do. Alice loves that, the
Speaker 1: audience loves it. Um, it's great for them. It's you know,
Speaker 1: it's been a long time. I think it's a great moment.
Speaker 1: I mean, our job is to make the audience happy.
Speaker 1: It's not to make ourselves happy. It's the and I
Speaker 1: you know, when we're writing it, we know that that
Speaker 1: makes the audience happy. There is a part of the audience.
Speaker 1: So they do three or four songs. At the end,
Speaker 1: Alice can still do a show and the way he
Speaker 1: wants to um, And it's nice for them. They're back
Speaker 1: on stage and all of them together. They all love
Speaker 1: each other, these kids who went to high school together.
Speaker 1: So if it's you know, if it's basically is his bifurcation,
Speaker 1: when do you get your next client? I got my
Speaker 1: next time. Before that, I got Um and Murray was
Speaker 1: probably seventy three, ish if I maybe a little later.
Speaker 1: Okay in Murray this is before Snowbird. No, this is
Speaker 1: as Snowbird is number one. Okay, how does she find you?
Speaker 1: Who's the previous record company? Go? Brian to Hearn producer
Speaker 1: met me during the John Lennon days when I did
Speaker 1: the festival up there. Um I had helped him get
Speaker 1: his recording studio together, an actron I got want us
Speaker 1: to finance. We had a good relationship and he called
Speaker 1: me up about managing her and the record was number one,
Speaker 1: and I I was. I was sort when he called.
Speaker 1: I said, you know, let me this is a great
Speaker 1: way for me to see if I have any skills
Speaker 1: or not. Alice was, you know, I have no idea
Speaker 1: how much I was of it and how much it
Speaker 1: was fate. So let me see if the principles work
Speaker 1: for any And I was very open with her and
Speaker 1: honest that I you know, I don't know what kind
Speaker 1: of job I can do, and you know I may
Speaker 1: have gotten lucky, but if you want to take a role.
Speaker 1: And it went on for how long? I went on
Speaker 1: for about four years, five years, and everybody was happy. Okay,
Speaker 1: let's go back to this era. As we've established, ticket
Speaker 1: prices were cheaper, the world was both smaller and bigger
Speaker 1: at the same time. In retrospect that you let a
Speaker 1: lot of money flow through your fingers. Oh yeah, absolutely,
Speaker 1: well we still do. I never been. I used to
Speaker 1: tell every actor would come in. If you're looking to
Speaker 1: make the most amount of money, I am so the
Speaker 1: wrong guy for you. But if you're looking to not
Speaker 1: need your second name, I'm your guy. Like I know
Speaker 1: how to make your famous. I'm not the best in monetizing.
Speaker 1: And you look at someone like her career and what
Speaker 1: he's done to monetize is just so brilliant. My hats
Speaker 1: off to him every time. Um brilliant. But it's not
Speaker 1: what I It's just not what I do. Okay. So
Speaker 1: after we had Murray, then what's next? A couple of
Speaker 1: really great ones in the middle gradual marks you John
Speaker 1: or Raquel Welsh? What did you do for Raquel? Raquel
Speaker 1: was a great one to Raquel called me up and said,
Speaker 1: I'm literally I yew that freak that helped make Alex
Speaker 1: Cooper famous said, he said, you take immediate Academy Awards
Speaker 1: tomorrow night. And I went within the Academy Awards, which
Speaker 1: was unbelievable. I remember I wore something green and the
Speaker 1: sweater around my arg pitch made it dark by the
Speaker 1: time I got there. And she was very honest. She
Speaker 1: said that she was aging, had two children, she had
Speaker 1: a support on her own, knew that as a sex
Speaker 1: star movie Starr, her years were limited in her income
Speaker 1: and that she needed to make a living in that
Speaker 1: maybe I could figure out something. And to me, it
Speaker 1: was so obvious, And Margaret was gigantic in Vegas UM,
Speaker 1: so it was so obvious to me. The highway was
Speaker 1: already built. I just had to put her on that train.
Speaker 1: So I hired UH and Margaret's choreographer, guy named Robbit Scuff,
Speaker 1: and UM got her a long term deal with Caesar's
Speaker 1: UM and and was it saying, I mean, you obviously
Speaker 1: got paid, but people wanted to go, oh yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: we did really well. Why do you think uh, sex
Speaker 1: symbol Vegas UM right setting, and Margaret said, a fantastic
Speaker 1: blazing UM. You know, she was the trailblazer and her
Speaker 1: shows were incredible. So it was an entertaining night and
Speaker 1: you got to see rac yel was safe for a
Speaker 1: guy to bring his wife and still maybe get a
Speaker 1: heart on Okay, So then how do we come with
Speaker 1: Blondie and Luther V Andrew's uh. And then by then
Speaker 1: I started to get a reputation, um and and I
Speaker 1: made a decision, UM that the toughest part of management
Speaker 1: how the artists would react to fame into having a voice.
Speaker 1: So I decided I would only take on acts I had.
Speaker 1: I was fortunate enough that most artists wanted me to
Speaker 1: manage him. They knew I didn't sign contracts. The word
Speaker 1: had gotten around I did unique stuff. So I would
Speaker 1: only take acts if they had number one records, because
Speaker 1: then I knew they were sort of fire tested, had survived.
Speaker 1: So Blondie I think was Chrysalis who came to me, Um,
Speaker 1: Luther Vandross was okay. So you got involved with Blondie
Speaker 1: after Heart of Glass hit, after their Heart of Glass
Speaker 1: before Rapture, and Luther v Andros Luther was after his
Speaker 1: first record. Let's go a little bit deeper into fire
Speaker 1: tested with their fame. Give us those people obviously could
Speaker 1: handle it. Give us examples of people who couldn't. Um,
Speaker 1: I don't know, because you don't hear about them. No,
Speaker 1: I don't need the names. Yeah, not not in my life?
Speaker 1: What would it? What would it look like? Um? It
Speaker 1: could look like anything. It looks like drugs, it could
Speaker 1: look like um, um, insanity, it could look like ego, UM,
Speaker 1: so many things. Well, how hard is it to be famous?
Speaker 1: Really tough? Really tough? What are the key elements to
Speaker 1: be able to cope? I think having people around you
Speaker 1: that don't say yes, it's really important. Um. And I
Speaker 1: think am I found I loved hearing Open Winfrey the
Speaker 1: other day saying the kind of thing I try and
Speaker 1: always tell my clients. They asked her why she feels
Speaker 1: she successful, and she says, the most important thing in
Speaker 1: my life is I wake up every day and the
Speaker 1: first thing I do before I get out of bed
Speaker 1: is say thank you. And I say thank you for
Speaker 1: waking up, thank you for giving me this day, he says.
Speaker 1: And it starts my day with gratitude. Um. And that's
Speaker 1: what I always tried to really push into the artist
Speaker 1: that I worked with brain, is that it's not about you,
Speaker 1: it's about them. Um. Okay, you know who was it? Somebody? Uh? Oh.
Speaker 1: The book about Joan Winner and Rolling Stone came out
Speaker 1: four or five months ago, and Johan is telling relating
Speaker 1: the story of becoming friendly with John and Yoko showing
Speaker 1: around San Francisco, going to lunch and somebody comes up
Speaker 1: for John Lennon's autograph and Lennon says, fuck off. Okay,
Speaker 1: that's the opposite of someone like Jon bon Jovi, who's
Speaker 1: being nice to everybody. Benning oldly got angry with his
Speaker 1: record company ironically about a year ago. But you know,
Speaker 1: you have someone like Bob Dylan, who's elusive and an icon,
Speaker 1: and you have other people are glad he and he
Speaker 1: isn't what makes you famous being the beacon and being
Speaker 1: different and not worrying about what the audience thinks. I think.
Speaker 1: I think there's a different paths for everything, but for
Speaker 1: in my journey, I can't take that path. Look at
Speaker 1: your personal journey, but the and the journey with my art. Okay,
Speaker 1: you know you So we're in a strange era now
Speaker 1: where unless you're hip hop act, no one's listening to
Speaker 1: the new music anyway. But do you want to tell
Speaker 1: you to tell your artists just give them what they want,
Speaker 1: take the pay day, move on. I don't think. I
Speaker 1: don't think it's a matter of just giving it. I
Speaker 1: didn't mean it that way, So tell me how you
Speaker 1: meant it. I meant it. Um. If Alice knows that
Speaker 1: his audience would really enjoy having the old guys on
Speaker 1: stage with them, why not do it. It doesn't compromise
Speaker 1: his art at all. Um. Okay, Let's let's use someone
Speaker 1: of Alice's vintage. Okay, and let's leave Alice aside. Let's
Speaker 1: say you were representing, and there's tons of them. Acts
Speaker 1: had gargantuan hits in the seventies who were still on
Speaker 1: the road or maybe even the eighties. Do be Brothers
Speaker 1: in the seventies def Leopard in the eighties, these were gigantic,
Speaker 1: identic and can still sell tickets today. Generally speaking, one
Speaker 1: believes people want to pay their money and hear the
Speaker 1: hits per Actually, you have to play the hits. What
Speaker 1: do you tell an act like that, That is you
Speaker 1: just say, be thankful that anybody wants to see you,
Speaker 1: or yeah, and play your hits. Okay, And you have
Speaker 1: to play your hits and what about And I said
Speaker 1: the same to the chefs when I manage them. You
Speaker 1: have to play your hits. It's exactly like songwriting. If
Speaker 1: you went to Spago and they didn't have pizza. That
Speaker 1: would be like going to the Rolling Stones and not
Speaker 1: hearing their hits. And then when the artist says, I'm stifled,
Speaker 1: I have to express my creativity. You try and make
Speaker 1: a balance and help them work through it and get
Speaker 1: some kind of a balance, um, and try and make
Speaker 1: it work. And they, unless they're completely unconscious, if they'll
Speaker 1: see it immediately with the reaction of the audience. And
Speaker 1: there's I don't know any entertainer who's been in it
Speaker 1: for a while who doesn't want the the emulation of
Speaker 1: their audience, all right, right, you know, it's all about
Speaker 1: the attention. That's where they're doing much more than the money.
Speaker 1: So when the artist says, I'm frustrated, I have to
Speaker 1: express myself, but I don't think my audience can handle this.
Speaker 1: How do you cope with that? I mean I would
Speaker 1: It depends on who it is, but I try and work.
Speaker 1: Maybe I would say to me, why don't we go
Speaker 1: to a small club somewhere, try it out, see how
Speaker 1: it feels. Well, let's do an invited audience. Um, each
Speaker 1: one is pliable, but but try and keep him on
Speaker 1: focus about it's a service business, okay, So let's go
Speaker 1: specifically to Alice Cooper. Alice Cooper certainly has a number
Speaker 1: of hits, can play to the end of his career,
Speaker 1: selling a certain number of tickets because of the change
Speaker 1: in society and Halloween becoming such a big deal he's
Speaker 1: been associated with that. Is there any way to make
Speaker 1: him bigger than he already is? Um? You know it's
Speaker 1: it's um. It's hard for me to determine that he's
Speaker 1: been on a rising. He's been rising. Um. And we
Speaker 1: just keep trying to the right things. We keept trying
Speaker 1: to make interesting new product. We try and make the
Speaker 1: shows as exciting as we can. Um. And we try
Speaker 1: and be as pure at Alice Cooper, which we can be.
Speaker 1: Everything we judge is what would Alice do? Um? But
Speaker 1: are we going to be Justin Bieber again? We would
Speaker 1: love to, of course, we'd love to. But is that reality?
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's reality. But all we have
Speaker 1: he a happy artist. He just loves what he does.
Speaker 1: How many dates do he does? A hundred and thirty?
Speaker 1: He does a radio show five nights a week. Um,
Speaker 1: he loves it. He truly loves it. Yeah, I tell
Speaker 1: he would pay to do it if they didn't pay him.
Speaker 1: So How did you get involved with the Chefs? Um
Speaker 1: The Chefs was a a work of passion, sort of
Speaker 1: like I won the con Film Festival in nineteen seventy seven.
Speaker 1: I got taken to a restaurant in the south of France.
Speaker 1: It was Ridley Scott's first movie called The Duellist. In
Speaker 1: my first movie, And how do you decide to get
Speaker 1: in the movies? I got in. There was a girl
Speaker 1: named Carolin Pheiffer who were in, who was Pat Kingsley's
Speaker 1: associate in England, and she was very instrumental in Alice's career.
Speaker 1: England was very important to us and she was very,
Speaker 1: very instrumental, and we developed a love for her. Alice
Speaker 1: and I. Alice had a love hate because she worked
Speaker 1: them so hard. I had a pure love. And the
Speaker 1: baby on Billion Dollar Babies was her daughter, Lola, the
Speaker 1: one that Alice is holding up. And the baby had
Speaker 1: a crib death for six months and Carolin worked out
Speaker 1: of her house. Charlie Chaplin was the baby's godfather. Um,
Speaker 1: so you know you'd walk into the apartment to be
Speaker 1: Mick Jagger, Paul McCartney, Charlie Chaplin, oh, Marshal Reef. That
Speaker 1: was the life she lived in, and she called me
Speaker 1: up and she said, you know, Um, I can't go
Speaker 1: back into my apartment. I gotta leave the happy job
Speaker 1: for me. So I said, come on that. She she
Speaker 1: represented rack Heel, So I said, come on, just work
Speaker 1: with me on rack Keel. Come to you know l
Speaker 1: A and we got you covered. So she came in.
Speaker 1: She worked with rack Heel. She brought it in a
Speaker 1: couple of other artists, Sarah Miles. I don't remember, sis um,
Speaker 1: Sarah Miles. She had read that great controversy which one
Speaker 1: the guy in the bathtub exactly. So she said, I
Speaker 1: an article and Esquire about twenty years ago. Exhausted said,
Speaker 1: three guys committed suicide over her. Yeah, well, okay, I'm
Speaker 1: not a witness. Okay, she that cares. She was certainly
Speaker 1: attractive though she was very cool. But it is that
Speaker 1: charismatic that the guy just could not get over quirky.
Speaker 1: But she was great. Um. We did. She wanted to
Speaker 1: vomit up that whole thing, so we did with Bill
Speaker 1: Graham at the A c T in San Francisco. We
Speaker 1: did a one woman show s smiles as me smiles um,
Speaker 1: where she vomited up that whole thing about the finding
Speaker 1: the guy in the bathtub and it was really beautiful
Speaker 1: for her. Carolin came and she didn't like management at all.
Speaker 1: So I said, what do you want to do? And
Speaker 1: she said, you know, I'd love to make movies. As
Speaker 1: a younger person. She had been an assistant to Omar
Speaker 1: Sharief on the set of Lawrence of Arabia. It was
Speaker 1: in her blood. So UM I asked her who she
Speaker 1: thought she'd like to learn from, and it was a
Speaker 1: young guy named David Putnam. So I found David and
Speaker 1: hired him. Hired David. They were on a film company.
Speaker 1: We started a live films in. Our first project was
Speaker 1: a duelist with FRIDDLEI Scott David produced that the money
Speaker 1: came from where. Um there was a wonderful man and
Speaker 1: United artist named David Picker who loved Karen and the
Speaker 1: way we all did. And Um, David Putnam and I
Speaker 1: went into his office and we told him the story
Speaker 1: about Carolin doing the man and we didn't even finish
Speaker 1: the story and he said, you got a million dollars,
Speaker 1: do anything you want to do as long as Caroline
Speaker 1: is involved. So UM, the Duelists ended up being the project,
Speaker 1: and so we win the con Film Festival with it.
Speaker 1: Ever make you ever get paid on that? We got
Speaker 1: some small producers feed it never got released although we
Speaker 1: won the con Film Festival. It was David Picker at
Speaker 1: Finance when we won. We brought it back to show
Speaker 1: him at the studio at Paramount on Merrows. He had
Speaker 1: been fired that weekend and Michael Eiser and Barry Dilla
Speaker 1: took over the studio. They came from ABC TV and
Speaker 1: they watched five minutes of the movie with us. We
Speaker 1: were all in the screening room so proud, Oh my god,
Speaker 1: that cod We're gonna be these guys. We're gonna rape
Speaker 1: these guys for our next movie, you know, ovitually thinking
Speaker 1: of twelve pickured deal. They stopped the movie after ten
Speaker 1: minutes and got up and said, listen, we come from television.
Speaker 1: We don't really like this kind of stuff. Um, we're
Speaker 1: not gonna put it out. And that was it never
Speaker 1: got to put up. But what played Boston one week?
Speaker 1: Um so they could get it on paid, you think. Um.
Speaker 1: But anyway, so I go into this restaurant called the
Speaker 1: Mulan Dejan south of France. It's where all the big
Speaker 1: shots are. Clint Eastwood's in there, and uh, Anthony, could
Speaker 1: I not think of his name? Anthony Quinn, James Coburn,
Speaker 1: we're all there. Days you could smoke poveratti Boba strives
Speaker 1: in and we've just won the festival where like you know,
Speaker 1: and um, I'm looking around. Everybody's smoking cigarettes and their
Speaker 1: knees are bouncing up and down. They're looking around the room.
Speaker 1: Nobody's looking really at their table. And I thinking to myself,
Speaker 1: and I'm at this time, I'm now doing way too
Speaker 1: much cocaine and everything and drinking too much, and and
Speaker 1: I look around. I'm a young kid, and I said,
Speaker 1: wait a second, I'm becoming one of them. My knee
Speaker 1: is gonna start bouncing and sweating and boom. And I
Speaker 1: started to really think about it, and into the room
Speaker 1: walked this elderly white head man in a white suit,
Speaker 1: and this hush came over the room and James Cockburn
Speaker 1: jumped up and hugged him, and Anthony Quinn and people
Speaker 1: waiting in line to hug him. And I said, that's
Speaker 1: who I want to be. I want to be that calm,
Speaker 1: the you know, pool in the middle of the storm.
Speaker 1: Who is this guy? And they told me he owned
Speaker 1: the place and he was a chef. And I waited
Speaker 1: till um to everybody left, I said, I take a
Speaker 1: cab home, and I went over to him. He was
Speaker 1: alone with that he was having to drink with someone,
Speaker 1: and I told him I wanted to be his grasshopper.
Speaker 1: But this I was pretty fucked up at this point,
Speaker 1: and the grass in the Kung Fu had There was
Speaker 1: a TV show and David was the grasshopper for this
Speaker 1: wise man. So I said, I didn't realize he didn't
Speaker 1: speak English. Wise, I want to be a grasshopper. What
Speaker 1: is this grasshopper? So I explained to I just wanted
Speaker 1: to be around them. And he said that you cook,
Speaker 1: and I said no. He said, well, if you learned
Speaker 1: to cook, I'll let you work in the kitchen one day.
Speaker 1: And he gave me the names of some cooking schools
Speaker 1: and I left and I went to the cooking schools really,
Speaker 1: which Marcella Hanson in Bologna and um Charlie's in Bangkok
Speaker 1: at the Oriental. Those are the two names he wrote down.
Speaker 1: And then I came back. The next year. I was
Speaker 1: very lucky. I had a moving in the festival. Maybe
Speaker 1: the next twelve or thirteen years in a row. So
Speaker 1: I come back. I showed up at the restaurant. Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm here. I went to the schools and he had
Speaker 1: no idea who I was at all, and they said, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry. I'm leaving for Bangkok right after the festival,
Speaker 1: and I said, can I go with you? And he
Speaker 1: said yes. And I was with George Griff who actually
Speaker 1: knew him. So I said, George, come with me, so
Speaker 1: he'll deal with me. And we went to Bangkok and
Speaker 1: stayed with him. And that started, UM, this really close
Speaker 1: relationship where I was his grasshopper for the next twenty years. UM,
Speaker 1: take his jacket off, put it on, moved the chair out,
Speaker 1: and I loved it. I mean, I just love that.
Speaker 1: And UM, at one point he said to me, I said,
Speaker 1: what can I do for you? You? I can't imagine
Speaker 1: my life without you. And you said, give my give
Speaker 1: my profession some dignity. Um. You know, in Europe they
Speaker 1: treat us like we deserve to be treated. In America,
Speaker 1: it's and I had gotten to know all the chefs
Speaker 1: because I was his groupie. They all ad they no
Speaker 1: one knew who I was. They just knew that I
Speaker 1: was this guy who pulled his chair out and paid
Speaker 1: the bills and did everything. So I knew I got
Speaker 1: to meet all the guys wolf Gang Nobu because wherever
Speaker 1: Verge was, they were all congregated, so like Chuck Berry
Speaker 1: was in town for the rock and Rollers. And when
Speaker 1: they Wolfgang asked me to come over to Spago, and uh,
Speaker 1: I had told him about Mr Vige asking me to,
Speaker 1: you know, try and do something maybe change in ninetamics.
Speaker 1: Nobody was making any money. Nobody had two restaurants. Um,
Speaker 1: this is there was nobody with two restaurants. Wolf Gang
Speaker 1: maybe made a hundred thousand, that was probably the biggest
Speaker 1: the country. And he uh, it was the first year
Speaker 1: he was doing his festival at Universal, so he had
Speaker 1: all the chefs in town. And I went over to
Speaker 1: Spago lunchtime wasn't opening. There were like a Norman rockwall
Speaker 1: painting of you know, Paul Prude home, Alice Waters um
Speaker 1: no Bood Daniel and a big banner in the back
Speaker 1: that just said help. So I decided I sort of
Speaker 1: owed it to Mr Verge and that I had the
Speaker 1: skills that I knew how to do. So what did
Speaker 1: you start to do? Well? At first? I thought about it,
Speaker 1: and UM, I realized I did some studying. I looked
Speaker 1: at other art forms that UM that came to prominence.
Speaker 1: UM golf was was one because McCormick had written a
Speaker 1: book about how he took it from Yeah. He talked
Speaker 1: about Arnold Palmer being his first client, driving overnight from
Speaker 1: tournament to tournament, barely getting gas money, and then he
Speaker 1: got ABC wide World of Sports Jim McKay to broadcast
Speaker 1: the tournament. Once he got broadcast everything he started happening
Speaker 1: fast and now on a Palmer owned the golf courses.
Speaker 1: So I went to the guys and I at the
Speaker 1: second meeting, I sent them all the book and then
Speaker 1: I said, listen, we authorized me to if I can
Speaker 1: find a broadcast partner, will you authorize me to give
Speaker 1: up your services for three or four years for free
Speaker 1: because if you get on TV, we win, game said
Speaker 1: match it's over. And I was doing everything pro bono.
Speaker 1: So I just wanted to get out of there, and
Speaker 1: I got the Food Network. Helped to get the Food
Speaker 1: Network on the air. The big star, of course, was Emerald,
Speaker 1: because Emerald was willing. He was the only one who
Speaker 1: was willing to treat it as a different profession. He
Speaker 1: went to tutoring school. He he had a videographer's work
Speaker 1: with him. Um, we developed BAM, we developed a personality
Speaker 1: for him. It was fit the medium. Um. He was
Speaker 1: the only one willing to do and everybody else wanted
Speaker 1: to be who they were and do their cooking. They
Speaker 1: didn't see it as an entertainment form. Emerald got it eventually.
Speaker 1: Emerald was the biggest start and then it ended. Why
Speaker 1: did it end? What the Food TV? The TV Food
Speaker 1: Network ended not Emerald. They made a decision and I
Speaker 1: guess in some way rightfully so although it was difficult
Speaker 1: for the chefs to take that um it was too
Speaker 1: organic and too real, and that they wanted to move
Speaker 1: in more towards reality television. And they brought in a
Speaker 1: new lady to run the network, UM who was completely
Speaker 1: the felt the people who started a network, Reece and
Speaker 1: his wife were very vocal about how they hated chefs,
Speaker 1: like vehemently talked about it. I thought they were like,
Speaker 1: you know, um, but they they made that a living.
Speaker 1: This new girl who came in was a TV executive
Speaker 1: of who was very bizarre. UM. I remember I had this.
Speaker 1: I think Emerald wrote about it in his book, so
Speaker 1: I think I can talk about it. But I had
Speaker 1: stopped managing and I did it all for free. So
Speaker 1: once it'd worked over, there was a great moment. We
Speaker 1: were walking that park avenue out of a cab. A
Speaker 1: guy stuck his head out and said bam, and I
Speaker 1: third to em and I said, I'm out right. So uh,
Speaker 1: he said, you gotta come down. We just got a
Speaker 1: one rating, and that was our dream when we started,
Speaker 1: was to get a one rating. I left before they
Speaker 1: got a one rating, so I go down. When I
Speaker 1: get there, he's just I'm so sorry. I can't go
Speaker 1: to dinner with it tonight the Neon they just named
Speaker 1: the new head of the network. She's here tonight. She
Speaker 1: wants me to go to dinner and she'd love to
Speaker 1: talk to you. So he brought me over, introduced me.
Speaker 1: He went to tape the show, and she was very complimentary.
Speaker 1: I said, listen, can I tell you what I want
Speaker 1: to talk to Amaron about the night? It's true, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell him. He's really going to make a decision. Um,
Speaker 1: he's got to either be a TV personality or a cook.
Speaker 1: He's gonna have to give up the restaurants or give
Speaker 1: up the TV. I'm not going to re up his contract.
Speaker 1: And I said, you realize you just got one rating
Speaker 1: this week? Said yeah, but that's and I said, you
Speaker 1: realize you pay him two hundred dollars a show. How
Speaker 1: much are you gonna raise that I can't afford to
Speaker 1: give him a raise? I said, you're gonna actually tell
Speaker 1: him on the day you got a one rating that
Speaker 1: he has to give up his income, move his family
Speaker 1: into like warehouse, um housing. Go on, So go on
Speaker 1: welfare in order to do your TV shows. You are
Speaker 1: out of your mind. And they go to a restaurant
Speaker 1: on Madison Avenue and seventy great with the best bolonaise
Speaker 1: in the world. By the way, send send something. And
Speaker 1: I get a call from the major d Paulo Della
Speaker 1: Pooper at about eleven thirty at night that the police
Speaker 1: have just come because Emerald threw the table on some woman.
Speaker 1: Wo He did end up having a talk show right
Speaker 1: on ABC, which didn't quite work. Okay, So if we
Speaker 1: pull the curtain back, the problem is this is like
Speaker 1: reading a self help book. I mean read a self
Speaker 1: help book and it and there's a huge business in that. Okay,
Speaker 1: and I remember I would go to the psychiatrist who
Speaker 1: would reinforce it. The self help book may be good,
Speaker 1: but you're not the person who fits with that self
Speaker 1: help book. Okay, so you've obviously been ultra successful. Someone
Speaker 1: comes to you and says, I want to be you.
Speaker 1: What do you tell them or evaluate them to steer
Speaker 1: them on a course so that they will be successful?
Speaker 1: You know? I tell him that, UM, I wish I
Speaker 1: had the power to snap my fingers and help them,
Speaker 1: and that I don't have any answers, but I can
Speaker 1: tell them some of the things that I think are important.
Speaker 1: And I think it's waking up earlier and going to
Speaker 1: sleep later and working during the time Europe UM. I
Speaker 1: think that UM Embracing failure is really important. UM. And
Speaker 1: I try to then hone in onto what their specific
Speaker 1: need is, but not to be scared of failure. Live
Speaker 1: at your dreams. I always tell them, you are going
Speaker 1: to die. You're going to die. Make the time between
Speaker 1: now and you're dying really important. Do what you want
Speaker 1: to do, don't do something out of fear of failure.
Speaker 1: Lived for the the excitement of success, and if you fail,
Speaker 1: that just gets you one inch closer to making it.
Speaker 1: And if you're if the person who's calling me is
Speaker 1: trying to be a successful musician or trying to be
Speaker 1: an actor, or trying to be a player, right, I
Speaker 1: remind them that every rejection is one step closer to acceptance.
Speaker 1: And any star they talked to in any field has
Speaker 1: been rejected for years before they become famous. Well, now,
Speaker 1: the barrier to entry and so many things is very low.
Speaker 1: And I certainly hear from people who believe in themselves,
Speaker 1: but if you are exposed to the work, they could
Speaker 1: never make it. Yeah, it's a reality. Okay, So you
Speaker 1: know on some level failure is good for a certain
Speaker 1: subset of the overall population. Then there's other mean, I
Speaker 1: believe Bob Dylan from a dear loan landlord. It's each
Speaker 1: of us has his own special gift and you know
Speaker 1: that was meant to be true. And if you don't
Speaker 1: underestimate me, I won't underestimate you. But you have to
Speaker 1: find out what it is that you do well. When
Speaker 1: I guess when I say failure, I mean on the
Speaker 1: on your journey. So if you're a manager of a
Speaker 1: young artist, don't be scared to do the wrong thing,
Speaker 1: but do something that's where I mean failure. I don't.
Speaker 1: That's sort of where I focus what you're basically saying,
Speaker 1: don't be paralyzed by the situation. If you were twenty
Speaker 1: two today, do you think you would take the same path,
Speaker 1: I have no idea. I think my path was so
Speaker 1: a a result of opportunities that came rather than calculated that.
Speaker 1: I can't tell you yes, but you took advantage of
Speaker 1: the opportunities. Yes, when you first of all, you were
Speaker 1: willing to quit the job with the probation the probation
Speaker 1: department be I don't care who you are. It is
Speaker 1: not easy to ingratiate oneself with famous people. It is
Speaker 1: not there on guard. They've been hit up a million times.
Speaker 1: So not only did you have a product they wanted,
Speaker 1: you obviously have the gift of gab whatever that they
Speaker 1: liked him. Okay, so these are certain skills that not
Speaker 1: everybody has. Well, I always had. Service was part of
Speaker 1: my aim before I realized that. And in the life
Speaker 1: of an artist, if you do things for him, that's big.
Speaker 1: So I naturally would like, you know, drive him somewhere
Speaker 1: if they needed to be driven. Nobody had cars except me, um,
Speaker 1: I would drive him home if they were drunk, not
Speaker 1: because they were are, but because I could in the
Speaker 1: back of your mind, though you thought this will bond
Speaker 1: me to this person. I wouldn't say. Maybe some self
Speaker 1: interest in everything you do, I think, Um, but it
Speaker 1: was just my natural. It was always my natural. My
Speaker 1: dad was very much like that. UM, and I think
Speaker 1: I I I'm lucky enough to have some of it
Speaker 1: rubbed it off. Okay, so you've obviously been let go
Speaker 1: by a certain number of clients. Okay, and Murray and
Speaker 1: Murray was really any Loggins and Murray? And what happened
Speaker 1: with both of those how today? And Murray I never
Speaker 1: knew until I read her book, which was what which
Speaker 1: was really interesting. She said that they realized that they
Speaker 1: needed something if they were going to make it big,
Speaker 1: and they heard about me, and they knew that I
Speaker 1: didn't make them sign contracts. So her and her manager
Speaker 1: at the time decided they would hire me, learn everything
Speaker 1: they could, get to the goal they wanted, and then
Speaker 1: fire me. And that's what they did. So when she
Speaker 1: did fire you decades back, you must have said, I
Speaker 1: have no idea what's going on here? I didn't care.
Speaker 1: I was it didn't matter and what app with Kenny Loggins.
Speaker 1: Kenny Loggins it's um I can't actually talk about, but
Speaker 1: it was personal. It was you had done something he
Speaker 1: no no, he UM wanted me to do something I
Speaker 1: was uncomfortable doing. And we're still great friends, okay, and
Speaker 1: then you parted ways. A guy from my office I
Speaker 1: think went off to management. UM. I just saw him.
Speaker 1: Were just how Hi up at Botle Rock, which was
Speaker 1: really great. So in the time you have left, what
Speaker 1: would you like to accomplish? If anything? I have no idea.
Speaker 1: I'm really UM. I get excited when I can use
Speaker 1: my skills that I've hoped to do something that maybe matters. UM.
Speaker 1: So this Saturday in Maui, I put together a free
Speaker 1: concert for the students. Kids came and it was to
Speaker 1: support the Florida students and it was Concert for Our
Speaker 1: Lives with Jack Johnson, Willie Nelson, Chris Christofferson, Steven Tyler,
Speaker 1: Lily Miolay named Willie Kay who was amazing there and
Speaker 1: I think ten students, speakers, UM and Senator Corono, Representative
Speaker 1: gavern Um. The Maui News wrote a beautiful review that
Speaker 1: sort of brought a tear to my eye. I felt
Speaker 1: so proud. But it was last night at the mac.
Speaker 1: Hundred people entered the the concert an hour and a
Speaker 1: half later, people whose lives had been changed permanently. That's
Speaker 1: that's a review. You don't usually got left the concert.
Speaker 1: Never on the island of Maui, as our feeling of
Speaker 1: Ohanna been stronger. Um. And that really was touching to
Speaker 1: me because that's what we tried for. Now you're on Maui.
Speaker 1: How much of the year I lived there, But yeah,
Speaker 1: but we all try today nine months a year, nine
Speaker 1: months a year. So what does the typical day look like?
Speaker 1: It's beautiful, Um, the weather is beautiful. Um. I wake
Speaker 1: up in the morning, have a cup of coffee. Um,
Speaker 1: where surrong most of the day. But I put on
Speaker 1: a bathing So now to take a walk, so I yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a my emails. Then I take a walk down
Speaker 1: the beach. If there's somebody around that I know, they
Speaker 1: walk with me and come back to some more emails.
Speaker 1: And then there's always some project that takes some time,
Speaker 1: whether it's Alice's new tour, I'm working with the Hollywood Vampires.
Speaker 1: We we sort of put that together, so we work
Speaker 1: on that, think about what I'm gonna have for dinner.
Speaker 1: That's usually the first I get in the jacuzzi after
Speaker 1: my walk and think about dinner. This is what time
Speaker 1: of day now we're at about seven o'clock. Um, some
Speaker 1: poor coffee, too much coffee. Um, smoke a joiner to um,
Speaker 1: do my thinking, because that's that's sort of what I
Speaker 1: try do for Alice and everyone, to get ahead of
Speaker 1: them for a year and visualize and try and manifest
Speaker 1: what I want to see and then try and create, um,
Speaker 1: what I want. And then I usually go play some golf.
Speaker 1: I'm not good at all. What's your handicap? I'm a
Speaker 1: fifteen it is probably a twenty. Now I'm not terrible,
Speaker 1: and I play three I know gambo, don't keep scoring,
Speaker 1: play five six holes and then have dinner. And we
Speaker 1: have such an amazing community on Maui of um, both
Speaker 1: visiting people because everybody visits, and people from my world
Speaker 1: of experience who lived there. So Steven Tyler lives there,
Speaker 1: Mick Fleetwood lives there, Um, Sammy Hagar, Owen Wilson, Woody Harrelson,
Speaker 1: and they're just people on Maui and we hang and
Speaker 1: they play music and backyards and we have good meals
Speaker 1: and we do great stuff for the community. How how
Speaker 1: often are you seeing these people if you're that's my life.
Speaker 1: We did seventy birthday party for Stephen Saturday night. I
Speaker 1: helped put together. Um. I don't think a week doesn't
Speaker 1: go by where I'm not just involved with him. We
Speaker 1: have dinners and we hang out Stephen. All all of
Speaker 1: them care about MAUI. Stephen just went to the Drug
Speaker 1: Court for graduation unannounced, gave the whole speech which was
Speaker 1: just so beautiful. Um. Mc fleetwood has a club there
Speaker 1: where he plays whenever he's in town. He plays a
Speaker 1: couple of nights a week. This week he had Neil
Speaker 1: Finn with him. Yeah, who came and did our concert Saturday.
Speaker 1: Hey now hey now, great song, great guy. Um. So
Speaker 1: it's just it's an amazing community. You never get Island fever,
Speaker 1: never for a second. Ever. When did you move there?
Speaker 1: Moved there? I'm in the same house. So what you
Speaker 1: would say is your expertise is thinking. Probably would say
Speaker 1: my uh, because there are things we didn't cover here
Speaker 1: that I'm aware of. You certainly had a number of
Speaker 1: publicity stunts, whether it be with stuff in London with
Speaker 1: Alice Cooper or Luther, Van and Ross and the women's
Speaker 1: on these concerts, etcetera. To what degree are those stunts
Speaker 1: that has a negative connotation? But I don't mean in
Speaker 1: a negative way, integral to the success of these I think,
Speaker 1: I think really important. I think that's why I always
Speaker 1: had great relationships with the artists, because I mean, let's
Speaker 1: take Teddy for an example. So how do I separate
Speaker 1: Teddy from Luther? How do I Teddy from Luther? How
Speaker 1: do I define to why I'm at a point in
Speaker 1: his career. I have every black woman in America getting
Speaker 1: wet panties everyone? How do I move them to the
Speaker 1: white arena? I have a black elvis? How do I
Speaker 1: move them? Um? So I have you joined it to
Speaker 1: sit in my hot tub? I think about, Okay, what
Speaker 1: would I like to see? What would tell people out
Speaker 1: there who maybe you're peeking in what we well? What
Speaker 1: about if he did a concert and it was just
Speaker 1: women in the audience and I can get do it
Speaker 1: at a big enough level that people white women will
Speaker 1: hear that there's this artist that those shows for women only.
Speaker 1: What the hell is going on? So I go back
Speaker 1: to Teddy and I say, I think I know how
Speaker 1: to get this across women only. And he looks at
Speaker 1: me like I'm crazy and he can we do it?
Speaker 1: And as lawyer tells us, we can't do it because
Speaker 1: it's discrimination lawyers. He can't just sell to uh. And
Speaker 1: I said, no, we'll sell to anybody. I work my
Speaker 1: way around that. I get another lawyer's opinion. I go
Speaker 1: to a record company. You can't do it, will kill
Speaker 1: his career. Every man in the world burned the records. No, no,
Speaker 1: I'm doing it. You know this is gonna work. Um.
Speaker 1: And then I manifest what do I want those women
Speaker 1: doing on them? Like going crazy? So I make chocolate
Speaker 1: Teddy Bear lollypops up to take a lick on. But
Speaker 1: that's all because I thought about it. What do I
Speaker 1: want to see that day? And then manifested to be reality, um,
Speaker 1: which is you know, that's what I did as a manager.
Speaker 1: So I was never the best of making the most
Speaker 1: money on that path, but I was good at thinking
Speaker 1: of So how do let me Luther? So how do
Speaker 1: you do that for Luther? You know, how do I
Speaker 1: define where Teddy is pure sex? It's women licking lollypops,
Speaker 1: It's just pure unadulterated sex. Luther is romance? How do
Speaker 1: I how do I do the same thing for romance?
Speaker 1: What we ended up doing was in the top ten
Speaker 1: markets in America. You got married by Luther on the air,
Speaker 1: the the priest marriage that he sank to you on
Speaker 1: the air, And how many people lined up for that?
Speaker 1: Oh my god. But his songs became the biggest thing
Speaker 1: in weddings for the next two years. And it's a
Speaker 1: fine romance as opposed to sex. So it became I
Speaker 1: was very proud of that. In today's god confidence world,
Speaker 1: do you think you can achieve the same thing with publicity?
Speaker 1: Look at I mean I this may be completely off base,
Speaker 1: and I'm sorry if it is, but I thought the
Speaker 1: Elevator incident with Beyonce and jay Z, I knew there
Speaker 1: was gonna be two or three albums out of it.
Speaker 1: Now I may be wrong, but to me, that was
Speaker 1: one of the great ones. Janet Jackson's top coming. Well,
Speaker 1: what do you think that the thinking was? I did
Speaker 1: that with Rackel. That was how I got around HBO
Speaker 1: many many years before one of the one ofver straps
Speaker 1: we guaranteed would sort of fall off. It wasn't the
Speaker 1: first time. Um, but no, I think it's being done.
Speaker 1: I think you know, this guy's like Scooter Braun, who
Speaker 1: are so brilliant, who just get it so good. You know,
Speaker 1: Arian the Grandes tragedy was one of the brilliant management things.
Speaker 1: How do you turn that horrible incident into a career
Speaker 1: builder and a win win for everybody? And that's what
Speaker 1: a great manager does. You take the failure in the
Speaker 1: horrible and you turn into something strong. And do you
Speaker 1: think the acts are grateful? I think for the most part, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think for the most part. You know, they get
Speaker 1: reputations that really aren't deserved. And I think, um, if
Speaker 1: you're if if you're do an honest, good job. Um,
Speaker 1: you know you see guys like irving him with acts
Speaker 1: for thirty years, I'm scooed it will be with his
Speaker 1: actual life. Then never let him go. Um. I was
Speaker 1: with all my acts except for a couple forever. I
Speaker 1: think if they see that you really, you know, not
Speaker 1: just getting him a Coca Cola, But if they if
Speaker 1: they perceive that they need you, you're in a pretty
Speaker 1: good shape. And then if you're happy to be, if
Speaker 1: your intentions are right and they feel they need you.
Speaker 1: You have the basis of a very strong relationship, and
Speaker 1: need is a big part of it. And the difference
Speaker 1: between the great managers, in my opinion, and and the
Speaker 1: managers who are just there are the ones where an
Speaker 1: artist perceives they need them. Yeah, yea are on a
Speaker 1: ground they could have been a disaster. It was a triumph. Um.
Speaker 1: So and so in terms of legacy, does that concern
Speaker 1: you at all? And what are you gonna do with
Speaker 1: all that said? I made I say that, but I
Speaker 1: have an ego like everybody else. What are you gonna
Speaker 1: do with the money you have? Um? Probably spend it
Speaker 1: all my one. I don't have a lot of things
Speaker 1: that I I fear and one is it the I'm
Speaker 1: gonna have wine left in my cellar when I die.
Speaker 1: If we started tonight, you know, I don't get a lot.
Speaker 1: I know. I know a lot of people say the
Speaker 1: same thing. But if we started tonight, we couldn't work
Speaker 1: our way all the way through. It's a problem. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna have to live, log down and other things personal
Speaker 1: irrelevant of business that you would like to do or
Speaker 1: achieve that you haven't done yet. Um. I always wanted
Speaker 1: to have a child in my own I have for
Speaker 1: adopted a little bit past the point if you met
Speaker 1: a woman of child bearing age at seventy two, would
Speaker 1: you have a child? It was the right relationship. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: you know a lot of this, And if I'm shooting bullets,
Speaker 1: what statistics are that most of the birth defects come
Speaker 1: from older men, from men as opposed to with a
Speaker 1: problem with that absolutely hesitatement. But you know, one of
Speaker 1: my heroes in life is normally and he had a
Speaker 1: child at eight, so as did what's his name, the
Speaker 1: close to a seventy eight the Broadway actor Tony whatever is, yeah,
Speaker 1: from the odd couple, And uh so, anything specifically you
Speaker 1: need to say before we wrap it up here, now,
Speaker 1: just what that's it's I live in and I'm really
Speaker 1: distant from the community that I grew up in the
Speaker 1: music community, and your stuff is fantastic because it keeps
Speaker 1: me plugged in. So I am a huge fan that's
Speaker 1: so happy to be here. I actually just so everyone knows,
Speaker 1: I called him exactly. So you know, as I say,
Speaker 1: it's interesting because there's a lot of stuff that as
Speaker 1: they say, we have the movie and there's a lot
Speaker 1: of things I would have liked to have covered, but
Speaker 1: we have a limited amount of time. Blonde okay, Blondie
Speaker 1: and the videos. Who paid for those? Um, the record
Speaker 1: company paid from Chrysalis was very supportive. Okay. So traditionally,
Speaker 1: as uh, someone whose name I won't mention, who ran
Speaker 1: one of these record companies said, the record major label
Speaker 1: model is theft. Okay, so there are certain Alan Klein
Speaker 1: being a good example, he would specialize on extracting money
Speaker 1: from the label. To what degree were you in your career?
Speaker 1: Hardass that way? Um, not my strongest thing, but I
Speaker 1: would try and get a lawyer involved who could really help,
Speaker 1: because beating him up for creativity stuff they cost money. Yes,
Speaker 1: beating him up for the big check. I used to
Speaker 1: try and get a lawyer to do if I could
Speaker 1: continue my fight. Okay, there's so much to talk about,
Speaker 1: but that's the most we're gonna talk about today. Chef
Speaker 1: is so wonderful to have you here. Pleasure Okay, until
Speaker 1: next time, Chef Gordon on the Bob Left Sets podcast.
Speaker 1: That wraps up this week's episode of the Bob Left
Speaker 1: Sets podcast, recorded here at the tune In Studios in Venice, California.
Speaker 1: I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Chef Gordon about
Speaker 1: his roller coaster ride of a career and the music industry,
Speaker 1: film and cuisine has always I welcome your feedback. Email
Speaker 1: me at Bob at left sets dot com. Until next time,
Speaker 1: I'm Bob left Sets. Me reason, I don't know me exactly?
Speaker 1: Why must be its out of the season filling dry