1 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:09,719 Speaker 1: Hi, Hello, and welcome back to Cardinal Territory. I'm your host, 2 00:00:09,800 --> 00:00:13,000 Speaker 1: Katie Wu writing solo today, but we will have Trevor 3 00:00:13,039 --> 00:00:17,239 Speaker 1: Rosenthal back next week. Don't worry. First off, I hope 4 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 1: you all had a very very happy everything. I know 5 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:22,480 Speaker 1: from my perspective, it was nice to have a little 6 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 1: refrieved from baseball and disconnect and be with family. But 7 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 1: of course very happy to be back with you all today. 8 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:31,800 Speaker 1: And let me say a huge thank you to everyone 9 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:34,920 Speaker 1: who has already like subscribed listened to the show. The 10 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 1: reception of Cardinal Territory has already far exceeded my expectations, 11 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:41,600 Speaker 1: and that's a testament to all of you. So thank 12 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:43,440 Speaker 1: you so much. Hopefully we can keep bringing it and 13 00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:47,520 Speaker 1: you guys keep coming back. So I had some reservations 14 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:50,880 Speaker 1: about hosting by myself this episode today because doing me 15 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:53,159 Speaker 1: podcast solo can be kind of weird, right, Like, I'm 16 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 1: sitting here essentially talking to myself, very off putting. I've 17 00:00:56,400 --> 00:00:58,760 Speaker 1: literally shot this intro like seven times. I don't care 18 00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:01,160 Speaker 1: if this is awkward anymore. I'm not recording another try, 19 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 1: so we're rolling with it. So to combat being alone, 20 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:08,400 Speaker 1: I thought we could make this into a fan episode. 21 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:11,040 Speaker 1: So let me kick this up for you. Here we go. 22 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:15,080 Speaker 1: And the reason for that was because I just kind 23 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:17,440 Speaker 1: of wanted to make this inclusive, right, So I thought 24 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:20,440 Speaker 1: maybe you could send me some fan questions, comments, concerns, 25 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 1: and I try to answer them as best I can. 26 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:25,360 Speaker 1: There are tons of great questions here. I tried to 27 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:28,960 Speaker 1: include the ones that were asked more than once. For example, 28 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:31,200 Speaker 1: we do have a Mason Wynn extension question coming up. 29 00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 1: That's a hot topic this go around, and hopefully we 30 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 1: get some good answers and you all aren't tired of 31 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:40,120 Speaker 1: my voice at the end. Also disclaimer, I am producing 32 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 1: this podcast by myself too, so a lot going on. 33 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 1: Set your expectations accordingly. Let's get to it. First question 34 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:52,320 Speaker 1: comes from my friend Quinn. He's a popular guy on 35 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 1: cards Twitter and if you've ever met him in person, 36 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 1: you know that he is a gem. His question, if 37 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 1: the season started today with the rotation, shouldn't be something 38 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 1: like Gray Sonny Gray, Miles, Michaelas, Eric Betty, Stephen Matts 39 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:06,880 Speaker 1: and Andre Polante. And if someone has moved, will it 40 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:11,160 Speaker 1: be McGreevey, Groseppo, Thompson, maybe even a tink Hens, Quinn, Matthews, 41 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:13,839 Speaker 1: will they be competing for spots during spring. All right, 42 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:17,520 Speaker 1: good question. Let's talk about the rotation. So we have 43 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:20,520 Speaker 1: four spots locked in coming into pittures and catchers, which 44 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 1: by the way, is like six weeks and a couple 45 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:25,400 Speaker 1: of days away. Very scary. Sunny Gray is going to 46 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 1: be your opening day starter barring health the right, we 47 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:29,239 Speaker 1: know that you can just pen that in. Then they're 48 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 1: probably gonna go some combination of Eric Betty, Miles, Michaelis 49 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:36,080 Speaker 1: and Andre Polante. The Cardinals want Andre Polante in the 50 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:38,440 Speaker 1: starting rotation next year. He's more than earned it based 51 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:40,640 Speaker 1: on what he did last year. He had the best 52 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 1: second half er and all of the rotation last year. 53 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:45,640 Speaker 1: That's pretty impressive when you think about the guys that 54 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 1: were competing, and with the Cardinals focusing on their youth movement, 55 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:51,680 Speaker 1: of course, this makes a lot of sense, right, Andre 56 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:54,679 Speaker 1: Polante definition of youth movement. He's earned an opportunity to 57 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:56,519 Speaker 1: start every day, so they're going to give it to him. 58 00:02:57,000 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 1: Where it gets a little unsure is where the Cardinals 59 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:02,440 Speaker 1: are going to go with Steven Mattz. Right, they could 60 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:04,799 Speaker 1: trade him, they could keep him for long relief. You 61 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:07,040 Speaker 1: saw Mike McGreevy. He had, I know, just three starts 62 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:09,840 Speaker 1: last year, but they were pretty impressive and they could 63 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:12,360 Speaker 1: be competing for a spot in the rotation comes spring training. 64 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:16,240 Speaker 1: I think if the season started today, McGreevy would maybe 65 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:18,760 Speaker 1: be penciled in as long relief. These are just conversations 66 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 1: that we had with John Mozaelac at the GM meetings 67 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:23,959 Speaker 1: and the Winter meetings where he said McGreevy will absolutely 68 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 1: be a factor at the major league level on the 69 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 1: big league roster next year. His role, though, can be flexible. 70 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 1: Now here's where what I would like to see. I 71 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:35,360 Speaker 1: would like to see Michael McGreevy in that rotation next year. 72 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 1: He's a first round pick. You don't know what you're 73 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 1: gonna have in him unless you see him in the 74 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 1: rotation every day. And I think the Cardinals have gotten 75 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:46,839 Speaker 1: themselves in a little trap not committing to their young 76 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:50,040 Speaker 1: pitchers coming up through the pipeline on what their role 77 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:52,080 Speaker 1: is going to be. And a lot of that did 78 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 1: factor into you know, they were competing for the postseason. 79 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 1: You know, it was basically like who's the best guy 80 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:00,600 Speaker 1: for what we need right now? But you look at 81 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 1: the kind of up and down roller coaster careers so 82 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:08,200 Speaker 1: far of Zach Thompson, Matthew libertore At Polante too, it 83 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 1: took them so long to have defined roles. I would 84 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:13,160 Speaker 1: hate see that happened to McGreevy. He's a very go 85 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:14,600 Speaker 1: with the flow kind of guy. I think he'd be 86 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:17,200 Speaker 1: successful no matter what the Cardinals decided to do with him. 87 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:19,919 Speaker 1: But I do think they've caught themselves in a trap 88 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:22,560 Speaker 1: in terms of, hey, we're just gonna like fluctuate our 89 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:25,320 Speaker 1: guys between starters and relievers. I would like to see 90 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:27,359 Speaker 1: McGreevy come up and have a defined role and have 91 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:30,120 Speaker 1: them stick with it. And I personally would like see 92 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:32,400 Speaker 1: it in the rotation. I just don't know if we're 93 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:35,720 Speaker 1: going to get that. Now here's my disclaimer for you, Quinn. 94 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 1: There's no guarantee the rotation looks like this in six weeks, right, 95 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:42,919 Speaker 1: we'll get to the Nolan Arnaudo stuff, because, as we 96 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:46,039 Speaker 1: talked about before and fire episodes, that could dictate this rotation. 97 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:50,440 Speaker 1: But if we started the season today, I think you 98 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:53,600 Speaker 1: could pencil in a Pennan, Sonny Gray, Eric Fetti and 99 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:56,920 Speaker 1: Miles Michael was in that rotation and Polonte. It's kind 100 00:04:56,920 --> 00:04:58,680 Speaker 1: of up to what they see for Steven Mattz, and 101 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:02,039 Speaker 1: if Michael mcgreeby can fit in now Grisepo, Gordon gricefo, 102 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:05,360 Speaker 1: he'll get some opportunities at spring training. So was Zach Thompson, 103 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:09,720 Speaker 1: tink Hence Quinn Matthews. Very exciting guys Obviously lots to 104 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:12,120 Speaker 1: be excited for there, but I don't see them as 105 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:15,880 Speaker 1: necessarily making an impact on the opening day roster. Definitely 106 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 1: two pictures to keep an eye on come the second 107 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:21,880 Speaker 1: half of the season, but for now, I think the 108 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:24,600 Speaker 1: Cardinals there was pretty much between us, Stephen Mattz, and 109 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 1: Mike McGreevey in terms of that final rotation spot. All right, 110 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:35,719 Speaker 1: moving on, next question from Cee seventy, another one of 111 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:37,799 Speaker 1: my friends. I promise I didn't just pick like people 112 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:41,080 Speaker 1: that I knew and liked. These were just good questions. 113 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 1: Here's this question. Does the emphasis on development preclude extensions 114 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 1: for young players like Brendan Donovan or Mason Win? Say, 115 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:49,680 Speaker 1: I knew we had a Mason Win question in there, 116 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:54,279 Speaker 1: So I love this question because in a perfect world, 117 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 1: if you are trying to sell a fan base that 118 00:05:56,920 --> 00:06:01,120 Speaker 1: is frustrated that is rather apathetic. I mean, look, at 119 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:03,039 Speaker 1: how Bush Shadium was at the end of the twenty 120 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:06,800 Speaker 1: twenty four season. It was really sad, and that is 121 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:11,480 Speaker 1: you fans have every right to vocalize their frustration with ownership, 122 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:13,880 Speaker 1: with management. You know what, if that's how you want 123 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:16,400 Speaker 1: to send a message, all power to you. Let the 124 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 1: people in charge know that you're not happy with your organization. 125 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 1: Not shim up to games is the perfect way to 126 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 1: do it. If you're trying to get that fan base 127 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 1: to buy back in and you're trying to sell them 128 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 1: on a youth movement, whether you agree or not, the 129 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:30,480 Speaker 1: first thing that you can do to ensure that this 130 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:33,719 Speaker 1: youth movement is in good faith is to extend a 131 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:36,400 Speaker 1: player like Mason Win or Brendan Donovan. Mason Win is 132 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:38,719 Speaker 1: probably my pick because he's so dynamic and to me, 133 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:41,600 Speaker 1: he's like the face of the future. Extend him through 134 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:44,280 Speaker 1: the arbitration years, give him like a jacksonurial kind of deal. 135 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 1: And that's expressing to your fan base, Hey, we're serious 136 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:50,240 Speaker 1: about this youth movement. It's not like code to soften 137 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:53,480 Speaker 1: our rebuild. Like, we actually believe in what we're doing here. 138 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:56,000 Speaker 1: We believe in our plan and we believe that Mason 139 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:58,560 Speaker 1: is the guy to go forward. I think everyone to 140 00:06:58,640 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 1: be on board with that, and I think would go 141 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:02,919 Speaker 1: on long way with the fan base. The problem this 142 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:05,840 Speaker 1: current front office, John Mozelock's front office is not going 143 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:08,520 Speaker 1: to be the front office that sees the next you know, 144 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:12,400 Speaker 1: five at minimum years. Right, that's him Bloom's front office. 145 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:16,360 Speaker 1: So John Mozelock's not going to make any like huge 146 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:20,760 Speaker 1: future altering decisions without hein Bloom. And it's to me 147 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 1: a little unclear on what him Bloom wants us to 148 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 1: be because we haven't seen him. Right, we can go 149 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:26,800 Speaker 1: back to see what he did with his tenure with Boston, 150 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 1: but to me, that's a little unfair because different ownership 151 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 1: groups different demands. So maybe the Cardinals are thinking, hey, 152 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:36,880 Speaker 1: let's give him the chance to completely make over this 153 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:39,320 Speaker 1: team when he takes over in twenty twenty six. So 154 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 1: I can see why there hasn't really been a lot 155 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:44,440 Speaker 1: of extension talks. Here. Here's another thing we need to consider. 156 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:47,520 Speaker 1: It's not just John Mozelock who's stepping down after twenty 157 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:50,920 Speaker 1: twenty five. Everyone in the front office that we have 158 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 1: grown accustomed to their contracts are up in twenty twenty five. 159 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:55,920 Speaker 1: That includes Mike Gersh and yes, I know that he 160 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 1: took a step down. You know his role has been 161 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 1: diminished in terms of the front office day to day operations. 162 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:04,200 Speaker 1: But his contract's up in twenty twenty five. Randy Flores 163 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:06,480 Speaker 1: is up in twenty twenty five, Morsis Rodriguez. You go 164 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:08,760 Speaker 1: down the list. So the Cardinals brass that has been 165 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:12,480 Speaker 1: instrumental in forming this organization over the last decade or so, 166 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:15,560 Speaker 1: there's no guarantee any of them will be back, right. 167 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 1: I'm not saying they won't be, I'm just saying that 168 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:20,680 Speaker 1: contracts are up. So while I'm all on board with 169 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 1: a Mason Winn extension or Brendan Donovan extension, and I 170 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:25,440 Speaker 1: think it would be done in good faith booth to 171 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:27,680 Speaker 1: the player and to the fan base, the timing of 172 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:33,880 Speaker 1: the front office turnover makes that really difficult. All right, 173 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:40,600 Speaker 1: Moving on from JD at the backwards DJ, what would 174 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 1: the perfect Nolan Arnatto trade package look like for the Cardinals. Oh, 175 00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 1: I actually have a perfect example. It is the trade 176 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 1: package that Nolan said no to last week. What the 177 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:56,640 Speaker 1: Cardinals had with the Houston Astros was a perfect ideal 178 00:08:56,679 --> 00:09:00,559 Speaker 1: situation for John Mozaylock and his bosses, the Cardinals ownership, 179 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:04,600 Speaker 1: because the whole point of trading Nolan Arnado was or 180 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:07,440 Speaker 1: if they do or not, is to move salary. Mo 181 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:09,360 Speaker 1: has gone out and said this on the record. He 182 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 1: doesn't he's not. I think most sometimes gets a bad 183 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:16,240 Speaker 1: rap with how he talks and communicates. But when he 184 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 1: goes out and says something so blatantly like hey, we're 185 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:23,440 Speaker 1: moving him because of the financial ramifications, it's good like 186 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:25,720 Speaker 1: that's that's a legitimate reason. He wouldn't say it if 187 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:29,679 Speaker 1: it wasn't true. So the perfect Nolan Arnaudo trade package 188 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 1: for the Cardinals has less to do with the players 189 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:34,440 Speaker 1: they're getting back and much more to do with the 190 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:36,920 Speaker 1: end of money they don't have to pay anymore. So 191 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:39,960 Speaker 1: we reported at The Athletic also reported around ESPN MLB 192 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:44,600 Speaker 1: dot com last week that the Cardinals had a deal 193 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:50,440 Speaker 1: in place with the Houston Astros to sorry, my phone 194 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:52,720 Speaker 1: is green and I'm not so over this podcast. So 195 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:55,199 Speaker 1: the Cardinals had a deal with the Eastern Astress to 196 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:58,200 Speaker 1: trade Nolan Arnaudo to the Astros and he said, uh, 197 00:09:58,559 --> 00:10:00,600 Speaker 1: thank you. Next, I am not in that at the 198 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:03,679 Speaker 1: time being, And the Cardinals were frustrated from their standpoint, 199 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:07,200 Speaker 1: because they were only going to have to pay five 200 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:11,000 Speaker 1: million dollars roughly for the next three years. And that's 201 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:13,280 Speaker 1: a great deal for them for an organization that's trying 202 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:17,360 Speaker 1: to move payroll, move salary. Having to only pay fifteen 203 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:20,360 Speaker 1: million dollars roughly. If Nolan Arnado's remaining seventy four million 204 00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:23,240 Speaker 1: dollar salary, that's a layup of a deal. That's the 205 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 1: perfect trade package. I don't know if they're going to 206 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:27,679 Speaker 1: find a deal like that again, right, but again, and 207 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 1: we talked about this in a couple episodes prior. It's 208 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:31,680 Speaker 1: not just about what they want, it's about what Nolan 209 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:33,680 Speaker 1: wants to and if he didn't want to go to Houston, 210 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:36,040 Speaker 1: he has every right to say no. So I think 211 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 1: that's what I've been trying to convey to the fan base. 212 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:41,880 Speaker 1: And it's hard, right because like the Cardinals don't trade 213 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 1: away good players for salary relief. That's not like, that's 214 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:48,880 Speaker 1: that's not the Cardinal way, right, So I understand why 215 00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:51,320 Speaker 1: there's a lot of confusion, a lot of pushback on 216 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:53,440 Speaker 1: why they're doing this, But Moe has said it about 217 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 1: as clear as possible. They want financial relief. They are 218 00:10:56,960 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 1: trying to get payroll down. Moving seventy four million dollars 219 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:04,560 Speaker 1: off their books certainly accomplishes that. That's their perfect trade package. 220 00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:06,720 Speaker 1: It's less about the players coming back, more about the 221 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:09,760 Speaker 1: money they are moving. There is also still no guarantee 222 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:12,600 Speaker 1: they get this trade done. I imagine though my worlds 223 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:15,720 Speaker 1: will involve over the next six weeks Nolana out of situation, 224 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:19,839 Speaker 1: so we'll have plenty of updates on that. All right, 225 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:26,040 Speaker 1: up next from Stephen Thomas. What level of confidence does 226 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 1: DeWitt and the front office have an Ollie Marmle. Is 227 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 1: he the guy to take the team all the way 228 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 1: through the reset to contention or do they see him 229 00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:35,240 Speaker 1: as a likely bridge that develops young players that they 230 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:41,000 Speaker 1: move on from. This is a good question. I can 231 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:44,640 Speaker 1: see I can see where you're coming from here. But 232 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 1: at the same time, it doesn't really matter what this 233 00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:50,160 Speaker 1: current front office feels in Ollie Marmle. Obviously, John Mozelak 234 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:52,880 Speaker 1: has a ton of confidence in him. That's why he 235 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 1: was given that extension ahead of the twenty twenty four season, 236 00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:58,120 Speaker 1: fresh off the Cardinals having their worst season in like 237 00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:02,720 Speaker 1: thirty years. I think Allie also gets a bad rap sometimes, 238 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:04,680 Speaker 1: and I promise this is not like oh, beat writer 239 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:06,920 Speaker 1: looks sticking up for the players, signing up for the coaches. 240 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:09,040 Speaker 1: I read those comments, you guys, I read the comments 241 00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 1: on YouTube. I know when you're saying mean things about me. 242 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:15,480 Speaker 1: This is my honest opinion. Ollie Marmle has a huge 243 00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:18,839 Speaker 1: background in player development. So does his coaching staff. When 244 00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:20,800 Speaker 1: you think about the guys that were coming up in 245 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:23,760 Speaker 1: like twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen, so think of 246 00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:28,160 Speaker 1: like the Tommy Edmund, Jack Flaherty era, the Paul De 247 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:30,559 Speaker 1: Young era, Harrison Bader, all of those guys that made 248 00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:36,000 Speaker 1: that twenty nineteen championship era playoff team so exciting. Guys 249 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:39,600 Speaker 1: like Allie Marmele, Pop Warner, Stubby Clap. They were instrumental 250 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:41,840 Speaker 1: in the minors in player development. And we've talked a 251 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:44,520 Speaker 1: lot about player development kind of falling off the wayside 252 00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:50,240 Speaker 1: for the organization. Ollie, Stubby Pop, those Mike Schult when 253 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:53,040 Speaker 1: he was there, they really molded those minor leagues. So 254 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:55,200 Speaker 1: the players that climb up in twenty nineteen, that like 255 00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:58,120 Speaker 1: Core that everyone was super excited about, they were ready 256 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:00,559 Speaker 1: to be big leaders. And I still thing that, you 257 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 1: know what if in twenty twenty. I think that maybe 258 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:05,480 Speaker 1: derailed their setback a lot of guys in their careers, 259 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:08,079 Speaker 1: but you can't control that. The point is, in twenty nineteen, 260 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:11,120 Speaker 1: those players were ready to play, they were ready to contribute, 261 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 1: and we saw that. You know, yeah, they ran into 262 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:16,360 Speaker 1: the World Series Champions and the Nationals and the NLCS. 263 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:19,319 Speaker 1: That's baseball. But that was a core that people were 264 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:22,520 Speaker 1: excited about. So Allie Marmle's job is now to do 265 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:24,959 Speaker 1: what he did in the minor leagues with this current 266 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:27,559 Speaker 1: core now because they didn't have that. This current core 267 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:30,679 Speaker 1: didn't have that in twenty twenty, twenty one, twenty twenty two, 268 00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 1: Jordan Walker, Nolan Gorman, Yvon Herrera, Pedro Pajez, Lars Newbark. 269 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:37,400 Speaker 1: Go down the list, guys, and we have not even 270 00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:39,839 Speaker 1: starting about the pitchers. Right go down the list. These 271 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 1: are guys that maybe didn't get the best minor league 272 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:45,080 Speaker 1: instruction during their time in the player development or in 273 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:48,520 Speaker 1: their farm system. And now Allie Marmle's job and his 274 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:51,439 Speaker 1: staff's job is to find that development at the major leagues. 275 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:54,200 Speaker 1: That is really really hard to do. But given his 276 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:56,240 Speaker 1: background and given the fact that he's done it before, 277 00:13:57,000 --> 00:13:59,120 Speaker 1: I can see why he's here for twenty twenty five. 278 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:01,560 Speaker 1: I can see why his staff was given extensions at 279 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:04,520 Speaker 1: the end of the year or had their contracts renewed. Right. 280 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:08,040 Speaker 1: I think this is the right play because you're essentially 281 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 1: teaching these players what they should have learned in Double 282 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:12,360 Speaker 1: A and TRIPAA at the major league level, and you're 283 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:14,680 Speaker 1: doing it with guys that have worked up their ranks 284 00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:17,600 Speaker 1: through the Cardinals organization in the minor leagues and player 285 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 1: development staff as well. So that's the first part to 286 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:25,320 Speaker 1: this question. The second part is it really kind of 287 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:28,200 Speaker 1: depends on what Heim bloom Sea's after twenty twenty five, right, 288 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:31,800 Speaker 1: Like this whole transition year. I totally understand why the 289 00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:36,000 Speaker 1: Cardinals are doing it. It's very unorthodox, but it does 290 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:38,480 Speaker 1: make sense when you really sit down and break it down. 291 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 1: I think Ollie Marvel in twenty twenty two, I mean, 292 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 1: he had two nationally MVP candidates, he had Albert Poohles, 293 00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:49,240 Speaker 1: but he also had a relatively young squad there and 294 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 1: that was helpful. In twenty twenty three, I'm not quite 295 00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:55,120 Speaker 1: sure who could have won with that team, especially in 296 00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:57,880 Speaker 1: the second half. Tony LaRussa in the second half of 297 00:14:57,880 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 1: twenty twenty three, He's probably not winning with that roster 298 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:02,840 Speaker 1: he hears up, probably not so. I do think he 299 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:05,080 Speaker 1: gets kind of a bad rap there as well. But 300 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:07,160 Speaker 1: this is a big year for him because if he 301 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:10,080 Speaker 1: can solidify the trust in this young group and help 302 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:12,600 Speaker 1: mold them at the major league level, then you can 303 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:15,880 Speaker 1: maybe see him taking them through contention. Now, if guys 304 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 1: take significant steps back, which you know you hope doesn't happen, 305 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:22,160 Speaker 1: or the Cardinals completely fall apart and this whole reset 306 00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:24,920 Speaker 1: really goes up in flames, then I think him Bloom 307 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:27,160 Speaker 1: has a tougher decision to make. But for right now, 308 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 1: I think for what the Cardinals are doing, this is 309 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 1: the right call. Whether or not fans want to hear that. 310 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:35,760 Speaker 1: And if you're rolling your eyes at me right now 311 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:37,560 Speaker 1: because you don't like the answer, because you want all 312 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 1: the mar mule to be fired, that's fine. I get it. 313 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:47,360 Speaker 1: I again read the comments. Next up, with all the 314 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:50,000 Speaker 1: new hires in the organization being front office and minor 315 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 1: league instructors, do the Cardinals have plans to help the 316 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:55,360 Speaker 1: young guys on the current roster? Is it sink or swim? 317 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 1: Or are we waiting on the next batch of youngsters. 318 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:01,560 Speaker 1: I like this question because we don't know right like 319 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:04,080 Speaker 1: they believe they have we taught. We've just talked about this. 320 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:08,160 Speaker 1: Ollie Pops w in place, Daniel descalso coming back, John Jay. 321 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:10,640 Speaker 1: I mean, these were guys you think about the Memphis Mafia, 322 00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:13,960 Speaker 1: that they know what it's like to be homegrown Cardinals 323 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:16,840 Speaker 1: and be part of that that core that brought a 324 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:20,400 Speaker 1: world series back to Saint Louis. So like losing what Limbogee, 325 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:22,400 Speaker 1: that's that's tough. I know he'll try to be around 326 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:24,840 Speaker 1: the organization. He just won't be with the major league 327 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 1: roster every day. But bringing someone like John Jay into 328 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:32,800 Speaker 1: the organization to be with descalso, to be alongside Olie Marmel, 329 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:36,240 Speaker 1: like what but Discalso and John Jay did in Saint 330 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:39,440 Speaker 1: Louis is textbook what the Cardinals want to recreate. So 331 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:42,320 Speaker 1: that I think will be super helpful. That will help 332 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:44,040 Speaker 1: the young guys on the current roster. And there are 333 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:45,640 Speaker 1: tons of young guys that are looking to take the 334 00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:47,800 Speaker 1: next step, and we're not talking about just the ones 335 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:49,720 Speaker 1: that we think will be starters, right Like, this goes 336 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:52,880 Speaker 1: beyond Mason Wyn, Jordan Walker, Brendan Donovan. This is also 337 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:55,040 Speaker 1: guys that are in like triple A kind of knocking 338 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:57,680 Speaker 1: on the door. The four A kinds of guys. Now 339 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 1: it's kind of sinker swim though you think about it, 340 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:02,400 Speaker 1: and this has less to do with the instructors. Like, 341 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:04,240 Speaker 1: of course, the coaches are going to help the players 342 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:06,240 Speaker 1: and do the best that they can to ensure that 343 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:08,840 Speaker 1: they're putting them in the best position to succeed. But 344 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:12,639 Speaker 1: if this core does not work out, then this cardinal's 345 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:17,960 Speaker 1: reset becomes a lot longer than what they're expecting it 346 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:21,440 Speaker 1: to be. So let's start with like the best case scenario, Right, 347 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:24,680 Speaker 1: Mason Wynn takes off flars Newbar, figures it out and 348 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:28,359 Speaker 1: stays healthy. Brendan Donovan continues to post. Nolan Gorman figures 349 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:30,160 Speaker 1: out a way to hit the ball more consistently. Jordan 350 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:32,440 Speaker 1: Walker hits the ball near all things that they want 351 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:34,840 Speaker 1: to see. Right, you can take some steps forward with 352 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:38,480 Speaker 1: cashing with Von Herrera and Pedro Pajz. What Mike Siani 353 00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:41,080 Speaker 1: and Victor Scott the second Victor Scott the second do 354 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:43,840 Speaker 1: in center field that will be helpful as well. What 355 00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:46,840 Speaker 1: pitchers take a step up? Will that be? Andrea Plante 356 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:49,080 Speaker 1: figured out will Mike McGreevy be a guy can Gorn 357 00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:51,840 Speaker 1: and grissefo be maybe a high leverage reliever. These are 358 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:53,760 Speaker 1: all things that if they all pan out, you're all 359 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:56,160 Speaker 1: of a sudden getting really excited about the next upcoming 360 00:17:56,200 --> 00:18:00,520 Speaker 1: corps right now. On the flip side, if everyone takes 361 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:05,719 Speaker 1: a step back and essentially the players that stalled so Gorman, Walker, 362 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:10,720 Speaker 1: et cetera, continue to stall, all of a sudden, you're thinking, Okay, 363 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:13,200 Speaker 1: maybe we don't have the pieces in place. We tried 364 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 1: to see what we had, it's not working out. Now 365 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 1: we have to create a new batch of players in 366 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:21,640 Speaker 1: our farm system. Now we maybe have to make some trades. 367 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:25,600 Speaker 1: It's so unpredictable. And that's why this plan that the 368 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:28,119 Speaker 1: Cardinals have, whether it's it's not the most popular with 369 00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:31,520 Speaker 1: the fan base, and I understand, I can. I can 370 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:34,399 Speaker 1: also understand the rationale behind it because they aren't going 371 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:36,720 Speaker 1: to know what they have until they run out their 372 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:40,399 Speaker 1: current core every single day. So by running out that 373 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:43,600 Speaker 1: core and having descalso and John Jay kind of be like, hey, 374 00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:46,280 Speaker 1: we did this, we know what it takes, and ultimately 375 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:49,359 Speaker 1: ultimately accomplished the top goal, which is to win a 376 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:51,359 Speaker 1: World Series and bring it back to Saint Louis, like, 377 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:53,560 Speaker 1: this is what you have to do. I think that's 378 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:55,920 Speaker 1: going to be really helpful. It's also on the players 379 00:18:55,920 --> 00:18:58,080 Speaker 1: to figure it out, right, Like can Nolan Gorman make 380 00:18:58,119 --> 00:19:01,560 Speaker 1: those changes? Can Jordan Jordan Walker make those changes? Can 381 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:03,760 Speaker 1: Lars new Varse healthy? Like we go down the list. 382 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:08,480 Speaker 1: Ultimately it's can these players, given a proper runway perform 383 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:10,200 Speaker 1: or can they not? And at the end of the 384 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:12,479 Speaker 1: twenty twenty five season, the Cardinals will have their answer 385 00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 1: and they can go from there all right. Coming up 386 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 1: from Adam Layton, do you feel that Moe has some 387 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:25,560 Speaker 1: regret over his decision to fire Shilt given his success 388 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:28,040 Speaker 1: and Marvel struggled the last few seasons. I think both 389 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:30,320 Speaker 1: are great guys, but I think the pressure on Marmalty's 390 00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:32,159 Speaker 1: new school philosophy is different than he was used to 391 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:36,080 Speaker 1: thanks and enjoy the show. This is an interesting question. 392 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:41,359 Speaker 1: I don't think John Moselac has regret over his decision 393 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:45,800 Speaker 1: to fire Mike Shildt. I think he just wasn't expecting 394 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:47,720 Speaker 1: to at the time, and he went out and said that. 395 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:50,520 Speaker 1: When the Cardinals lost the twenty twenty one wild card 396 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:53,639 Speaker 1: game against the Dodgers, John Mosela caught a fight back 397 00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:56,040 Speaker 1: to Saint Louis, and he was preparing to extend Mike Shilt. 398 00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:57,960 Speaker 1: How could you not. He had just won seventeen games 399 00:19:57,960 --> 00:19:59,679 Speaker 1: in a row with a roster that was, you know, 400 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:02,840 Speaker 1: not exactly a powerhouse and made it to the playoffs 401 00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:04,399 Speaker 1: and they had like what a two percent chance of 402 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:07,760 Speaker 1: doing that come September first it was insane. But things 403 00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:10,399 Speaker 1: went down over their exit interviews and Mo made the 404 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:13,919 Speaker 1: decision to not extend Shill and ultimately fired him. And 405 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:16,800 Speaker 1: that was not something that he was expecting to do. Now. 406 00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:19,760 Speaker 1: He always thought that Ali Marmel would be either a 407 00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:23,439 Speaker 1: farm director or a major league manager. So did he 408 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:26,560 Speaker 1: give Ali the shot? Absolutely? And did Ali do really 409 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:29,560 Speaker 1: well in twenty twenty two? Yes? Is he continuing to 410 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:33,080 Speaker 1: learn from his mistakes? Of course? Is he continuing to 411 00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:35,560 Speaker 1: be a better manager? I think so. I think when 412 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:38,960 Speaker 1: you're looking in twenty twenty four, especially those like very 413 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:43,080 Speaker 1: tight margin of victory games, how Allie and Daniel Discasso 414 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:47,399 Speaker 1: used their bullpen and Dusty Blake like that won them 415 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:52,320 Speaker 1: so many games. So yeah, I don't think there's regret there. 416 00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:54,920 Speaker 1: I think it was just a situation that Moe didn't 417 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:57,320 Speaker 1: see coming. And say what you want about John Mosilac, 418 00:20:57,359 --> 00:21:01,360 Speaker 1: he is very calculated. There are no surprises with him. 419 00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:04,359 Speaker 1: He is very aware of what's going on within that organization. 420 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:06,760 Speaker 1: It is very much his show. When I say that 421 00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:10,239 Speaker 1: as like a like a matter of respect, like he 422 00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:12,679 Speaker 1: is very rarely caught off guard with things that are 423 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 1: happening in his own organization, and that's how it should be. 424 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:18,480 Speaker 1: He was not expecting to fire Mike Schildt, and I 425 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:20,120 Speaker 1: you know, for what it's worth, I think Mike shild 426 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:21,959 Speaker 1: learned from his mistakes in Saint Louis too, look at 427 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:26,200 Speaker 1: the success he's seen in San Diego. So no, I 428 00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:29,239 Speaker 1: don't think there's regret. I think it was just a 429 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:32,359 Speaker 1: matter of not really being prepared to make a manager 430 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:34,679 Speaker 1: at a change and then having to scramble after. But 431 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:38,080 Speaker 1: credit to Allie Marmal twenty twenty three aside, that was 432 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:41,000 Speaker 1: an insane year, and if you've replayed that year again, 433 00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:43,280 Speaker 1: I don't think it's great, but I don't think it's 434 00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:47,399 Speaker 1: as bad as whatever that disaster was. I think Allie 435 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:49,679 Speaker 1: and Moe are very much invested in the success of 436 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:53,000 Speaker 1: bringing winning baseball back to the Cardinals. I think Moe 437 00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:55,320 Speaker 1: is aware that that might not happen under his tenure, 438 00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:57,480 Speaker 1: but he's doing his best to put the organization in 439 00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:00,240 Speaker 1: a position to succeed when he's gone. And I think, all, 440 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:02,400 Speaker 1: you know, he came up as a cardinal. He understands 441 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:06,639 Speaker 1: this as well, So don't see there's any regret. I 442 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:10,000 Speaker 1: certainly understand the cardinal fans desires for both Moe and 443 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:14,159 Speaker 1: Alie to be better. I guess I read about it 444 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:16,760 Speaker 1: every day, but if you really break it down and 445 00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:21,720 Speaker 1: look at it through the organization's lens, I think they're 446 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:24,800 Speaker 1: okay with how this worked out twenty twenty three, aside 447 00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 1: because they weren't expecting to make a change in the 448 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:33,080 Speaker 1: first place. All Right, we're almost done. We're almost at times. 449 00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:35,680 Speaker 1: So I'm going to get to two more from Tyler Leonard. 450 00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:38,440 Speaker 1: The reset, I like that you use that in quotes. 451 00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:40,720 Speaker 1: I do that too. The reset is about letting the 452 00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:42,640 Speaker 1: kids play and seeing what they've got as the team 453 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:45,280 Speaker 1: looks to the future with this young core getting a 454 00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:48,880 Speaker 1: fair shot. Which players are one more year of underperforming 455 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:51,680 Speaker 1: away from not being part of that future. Tyler, this 456 00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:53,800 Speaker 1: is a question that I read and instantly was like, yeah, 457 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:55,919 Speaker 1: I'm including that because it is such a good question, 458 00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:00,680 Speaker 1: and if I had to pick one, I go with 459 00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:03,520 Speaker 1: Lars Newbar. Look, I think Lars Newbar can be a 460 00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:06,760 Speaker 1: dynamic talent, right, and he's fun to watch, He's great 461 00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:09,320 Speaker 1: with the fans. He has all the skill set, but 462 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:14,120 Speaker 1: can he stay on the field like he's I don't 463 00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:16,000 Speaker 1: like how we talk about baseball players like in their 464 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:18,880 Speaker 1: mid twenties to early thirties as being old. It makes 465 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:21,680 Speaker 1: me feel like very self conscious. But in the grand 466 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:23,560 Speaker 1: scheme of things, like he's on the verge of the 467 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:26,480 Speaker 1: youth movement, right, he's almost aged out of it. And 468 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:28,480 Speaker 1: this is the guy that the Cardinals have been adamant 469 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:32,600 Speaker 1: about building around for years. Every winter meetings and every 470 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:36,280 Speaker 1: trade deadline, high profile teams call about two players, Brendan 471 00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:39,359 Speaker 1: Donovan and Lars new Bar, and every single time the 472 00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:41,760 Speaker 1: Cardinals are like, those are non starters for us. We 473 00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:44,640 Speaker 1: are not getting rid of them. We believe in their future. 474 00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:47,600 Speaker 1: So this is a big year for Lars Newbar. It's 475 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:49,359 Speaker 1: got to stay healthy. He's got to hit the ball 476 00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:51,040 Speaker 1: a little bit more consistently. When you look at the 477 00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:53,760 Speaker 1: bad of all metrics, it's all there, and I wonder 478 00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:55,520 Speaker 1: you know, if he didn't crash into the wall in 479 00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:59,080 Speaker 1: spring training last year, how his April would have gone. 480 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:02,840 Speaker 1: Because I remember in or very early spring training when 481 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:05,720 Speaker 1: he's on the backfields watching him take batting practice, and 482 00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:08,240 Speaker 1: his swing looked different and it sounded different, and I 483 00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:10,840 Speaker 1: went up to him and I was like, what did 484 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:13,640 Speaker 1: you do? Did you change something? And he went into 485 00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:17,160 Speaker 1: this whole detail about he'd spent the off season back 486 00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:20,800 Speaker 1: in so Cal working with the Arnatto brothers on totally 487 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:23,639 Speaker 1: revamping his swing and it looked really good. And then 488 00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:26,439 Speaker 1: of course the injuries happened. He's hurt. It's hard to 489 00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:28,800 Speaker 1: bounce back from that. That's been the story of Lars 490 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:31,320 Speaker 1: new Bar's career. Unfortunately, with his time in Saint Louis. 491 00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:36,399 Speaker 1: I do believe that he has every every like I 492 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:38,720 Speaker 1: don't know, possibility of being an impact player. And the 493 00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:41,440 Speaker 1: Cardinals obviously believe that too. That's why he's still here, 494 00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:44,120 Speaker 1: That's why they are so so hesitant to move him. 495 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:46,640 Speaker 1: But if he doesn't figure out this year, they may 496 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:50,320 Speaker 1: have to rethink their strategy with Lars. The good news 497 00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:51,880 Speaker 1: is he's going to have a chance to play every 498 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 1: single day. Right, we know this about him and I 499 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:57,080 Speaker 1: don't know how this outfield is going to pan out, 500 00:24:57,160 --> 00:24:58,840 Speaker 1: but we do know that he's going to be in it. 501 00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:02,480 Speaker 1: So it's a big year for Lars new Bar above all, 502 00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:06,800 Speaker 1: I'm excited to see how that works out for him. 503 00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 1: Last question from Thomas, We see Thomas. I really liked 504 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:12,959 Speaker 1: your question here because there's so much to dive into. 505 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:16,160 Speaker 1: Are the Cardinals using spring training to decide on their 506 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:19,320 Speaker 1: primary catcher, second, third, basement, and center fielder or are 507 00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:22,480 Speaker 1: the spots already solidified? Newpar could surprise and center would 508 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:27,959 Speaker 1: prefer Donnia a third and Herrera at catcher raises the ceiling. Okay, 509 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:29,920 Speaker 1: a lot to dive in here. This is a good 510 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:34,240 Speaker 1: question to end on. So there are like two positions 511 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:37,960 Speaker 1: solidified next year shortstop Mason Wynn, first base Wilson and 512 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,600 Speaker 1: Juris If Nolan Arnauto stay is obviously he's going to 513 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:44,320 Speaker 1: play third base in every day, right, So let's say 514 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:48,240 Speaker 1: you know that he does. All of a sudden, you 515 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:49,639 Speaker 1: have a little bit of a competition. What are you 516 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:51,640 Speaker 1: going to do with Nolan Gorman because they want Nolan 517 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:54,280 Speaker 1: Gorman to play every day? Does he become the regular 518 00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:58,159 Speaker 1: starting second baseman? I would lean yes, because Moas said it, 519 00:25:58,160 --> 00:25:59,920 Speaker 1: they wanted to see five hundred to six hundred played 520 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:03,359 Speaker 1: appearances next year. So he's going to be in the 521 00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:05,800 Speaker 1: lineup every day. Could he switch off in DH, Sure, 522 00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:08,439 Speaker 1: but that's where someone like Brendan Donovan and his ability 523 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:12,439 Speaker 1: to play every position ever really helps out. So that 524 00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:15,760 Speaker 1: I could see center field that's going to be an 525 00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:19,080 Speaker 1: open competition. Look, Mike Siani is a dynamic talent. Should 526 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:21,160 Speaker 1: I think he should have gotten some more goal glove love, 527 00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:23,800 Speaker 1: but that was a really competitive center field class last year. 528 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:26,800 Speaker 1: Victor Scott the second has all the tools and he's 529 00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:29,119 Speaker 1: another one of those players that was not helped at 530 00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:31,560 Speaker 1: all in the Cardinals farm system, and they did rush 531 00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:34,080 Speaker 1: him up out of need. You know, that's I don't 532 00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:36,000 Speaker 1: think you can blame anyone for that. The Cardinals had 533 00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:39,520 Speaker 1: four outfielders go down in spring training, so rushing Victor 534 00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,440 Speaker 1: before he was ready was just an unfortunate circumstance. And 535 00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:44,840 Speaker 1: I thought he did well given given what was going on. 536 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:48,399 Speaker 1: If he comes out and shines in center fields, then 537 00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:50,200 Speaker 1: all of a sudden you have a legit competition where 538 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:53,560 Speaker 1: Sianni and Scott are Maybe that's like the biggest competition 539 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:57,879 Speaker 1: position wise in spring training the primary catcher, I can 540 00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:00,520 Speaker 1: see the Cardinals going fifty to fifty as you can 541 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:03,520 Speaker 1: make an argument for Pedro Pajas his defense is a 542 00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:05,919 Speaker 1: little better than Yvon Herrera. I think Von Herrera has 543 00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:08,560 Speaker 1: the higher offensive ceiling. Both of them are so young, though, 544 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:10,560 Speaker 1: and you know, just coming off their first full year 545 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:12,119 Speaker 1: of their careers. It's hard to know what kind of 546 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:14,320 Speaker 1: player they're going to be every day, so you try 547 00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:16,760 Speaker 1: to play them equally. I think that's the plan. Now. 548 00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:18,760 Speaker 1: If someone comes up and absolutely runs away with the 549 00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:21,240 Speaker 1: show in spring training, they're probably going to get the nod. 550 00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:24,200 Speaker 1: But I can definitely see the Cardinals platooning their catching 551 00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:27,520 Speaker 1: position next year and not necessarily having a starting catcher 552 00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:31,560 Speaker 1: and a backup catcher. Now, I'm actually going to push 553 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:33,520 Speaker 1: back a little bit on new Bar in the center 554 00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:36,680 Speaker 1: because if you've looked at the metrics, it would be 555 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:39,840 Speaker 1: such a huge drop off from Siani to Scott to 556 00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:43,000 Speaker 1: new Bar. Defensively, new Bar is great in the corners, 557 00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:44,920 Speaker 1: and I think he profiles really well there. He has 558 00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:48,040 Speaker 1: a strong arm center. Though the reeds take a significant hit, 559 00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:50,520 Speaker 1: the reaction time takes a significant hit, the jump is 560 00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:54,040 Speaker 1: not as strong. So if you're constructing this lineup, you 561 00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:55,840 Speaker 1: really have to think about what matters more to you, 562 00:27:56,080 --> 00:28:00,560 Speaker 1: offense or defense. And the Cardinals for so long value 563 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:04,639 Speaker 1: defense that I cannot see them willingly running new Bar 564 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:08,840 Speaker 1: in center field every day. We'll see though, I could 565 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:12,320 Speaker 1: see Donovan at third, but even if Arnatto leaves, I 566 00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:14,199 Speaker 1: think Gorman is going to go to third primarily, and 567 00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:16,040 Speaker 1: then you kind of have the rotating spot at second 568 00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:18,640 Speaker 1: with Donnie there. He can play everywhere. That's what's nice 569 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:19,960 Speaker 1: about having him. You know he's going to be in 570 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:21,520 Speaker 1: the lineup every day, you just don't know what position 571 00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:24,640 Speaker 1: he's going to be at. So again, like if you're 572 00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:27,320 Speaker 1: predicting the lineup next year, it's up to you. Almost 573 00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:30,000 Speaker 1: you value more if you value offense more, and then 574 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:31,680 Speaker 1: Hirea is going to catch every day, new Bar is 575 00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:34,359 Speaker 1: going to be in center and you can maybe play 576 00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:38,560 Speaker 1: around with Burlison, Gorman, Donovan in terms of how you 577 00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:41,320 Speaker 1: utilize them. If you value defense more, you're going to 578 00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:43,760 Speaker 1: have either Seanni or Scott in center field. You're going 579 00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:45,680 Speaker 1: to have new Bar and left, and you're going to 580 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:47,760 Speaker 1: hope that Dorna Walker figures it out in right field. 581 00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:50,320 Speaker 1: Because this is, you know, going back to the previous question, 582 00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:52,920 Speaker 1: this is the year for him to figure it out. 583 00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:55,200 Speaker 1: And I've said it before, I'll say it again. I 584 00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:58,160 Speaker 1: don't really think that he had the most fair shakeout 585 00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:00,160 Speaker 1: in the outfield in terms of how he can came 586 00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:02,040 Speaker 1: up through the minor league system. But that's the story 587 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:05,000 Speaker 1: for another time. So if that's what you're valuing defense, 588 00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:06,720 Speaker 1: then you're going to see the center field alignment of 589 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:09,800 Speaker 1: like Scott Siani and then maybe you're going to have 590 00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:13,640 Speaker 1: Gorman at second or Gorman the DH and you know 591 00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:16,040 Speaker 1: we'll go from there. But a lot can change, you guys. 592 00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:18,600 Speaker 1: It's only December twenty seventh. There's still six more weeks 593 00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:22,000 Speaker 1: of this crazy offseason, and I expect it. I don't 594 00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:26,040 Speaker 1: expect this to be the like actual full roster. I 595 00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:28,080 Speaker 1: do think they'll make at least one or two more changes, 596 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:30,280 Speaker 1: but I do think it's really hard to predict what 597 00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:32,520 Speaker 1: that's going to look like until they know what's going 598 00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:36,560 Speaker 1: on with Arnato. And as we've all seen, that's been 599 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,280 Speaker 1: an interesting saga. All Right, we did it. We survived 600 00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:42,320 Speaker 1: almost thirty minutes of just me talking. If you stuck 601 00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:44,280 Speaker 1: with me this long, you deserve, like an award or something. 602 00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:48,080 Speaker 1: Thanks as always for following along. Like I said, we'll 603 00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:51,800 Speaker 1: have Trevor Rosenthal back next week. You know the drill. 604 00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:55,160 Speaker 1: Follow us on Card Territory, Like and subscribe to our 605 00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:58,080 Speaker 1: page on YouTube, find us on Spotify, Apple, wherever you 606 00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:01,280 Speaker 1: get your podcast. Thanks much for tuning in you guys, 607 00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:03,320 Speaker 1: but then get to your question. I'll try to get 608 00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:05,920 Speaker 1: to it next time. Thanks as always for the early 609 00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:08,719 Speaker 1: support and we will talk soon