WEBVTT - Kitchen Science with Martha and America’s Test Kitchen’s Dan Souza 0:00:05.080 --> 0:00:09.280 America's Test Kitchen has been studying and deconstructing recipes to 0:00:09.360 --> 0:00:14.160 help educate home cooks for twenty five years. Their readers 0:00:14.160 --> 0:00:17.520 and viewers rely on the science driven thinking that America's 0:00:17.840 --> 0:00:21.639 Test Kitchen provides. Dan Susa has held many roles at 0:00:21.680 --> 0:00:25.480 America's Test Kitchen and is currently the chief Content Officer 0:00:25.560 --> 0:00:29.360 for the brand. That means he oversees sixty test cooks, 0:00:29.680 --> 0:00:34.560 creating four television shows, two magazines, and thousands of recipes 0:00:34.600 --> 0:00:38.440 for the website. I'm sitting with Dan now at America's 0:00:38.479 --> 0:00:42.920 Test Kitchen headquarters in Boston, and we're discussing his role 0:00:43.040 --> 0:00:46.760 at ATK, which is America's Test Kitchen, and how he 0:00:46.840 --> 0:00:50.360 hopes the brand will evolve in months and years ahead. 0:00:50.760 --> 0:00:52.960 Welcome to my podcast, Dan, thank you for having me 0:00:53.360 --> 0:00:56.520 Muche very nice and we've not met before, It's true, 0:00:56.600 --> 0:01:00.480 which is weird because we're both in exactly the same 0:01:00.520 --> 0:01:05.520 business of creating recipes for the American consumer and teaching 0:01:05.560 --> 0:01:10.680 them and publishing stuff for them. And it's very nice 0:01:10.720 --> 0:01:12.880 to be here. And this is very reminiscent of my 0:01:13.200 --> 0:01:15.800 big kitchen at Star at Lee High, which is where 0:01:15.840 --> 0:01:20.320 I started really doing my thing. In New York City. Yeah, 0:01:19.840 --> 0:01:22.080 and you do it here in Boston. You have two 0:01:22.160 --> 0:01:23.400 hundred employees here. 0:01:23.360 --> 0:01:25.360 Yes, a little over two hundred employees. 0:01:25.040 --> 0:01:27.080 Yeah, yep. And how many shows? 0:01:27.400 --> 0:01:29.640 So we have our two flagship shows which are on PBS, 0:01:29.680 --> 0:01:32.600 America's Test Kitchen and Cook's Country. We also have an 0:01:32.600 --> 0:01:35.480 Amazon show called America's Test Kitchen the Next Generation, which 0:01:35.520 --> 0:01:37.640 is sort of a competition show to get on our 0:01:37.720 --> 0:01:41.200 other shows, a whole slate of YouTube shows and others 0:01:41.240 --> 0:01:43.040 on OTT and Fast Networks. 0:01:43.200 --> 0:01:48.160 Yeah, and you're very rigorous kind of way of choosing recipes. 0:01:49.080 --> 0:01:52.000 I'll make it onto your show. So can you describe that? 0:01:52.400 --> 0:01:55.440 Sure? Yes, it's definitely quite involved. So it starts with research. 0:01:55.440 --> 0:01:58.440 We have a beautiful cookbook library here with over five 0:01:58.480 --> 0:01:59.200 thousand titles. 0:01:59.200 --> 0:02:01.640 We have a great any of my cookbooks in your Life? 0:02:01.680 --> 0:02:05.000 We definitely, we definitely have I'm ready to go check. Yes, well, 0:02:05.080 --> 0:02:06.800 we will try to hear this, but we absolutely do. 0:02:07.280 --> 0:02:09.760 And so that we start with research and then we 0:02:09.800 --> 0:02:11.720 do what we call five recipe tests. So we'll pull 0:02:11.760 --> 0:02:14.520 recipes from cookbooks and online and choose five that we 0:02:14.520 --> 0:02:17.480 feel like represent the landscape of that recipe. We try 0:02:17.520 --> 0:02:19.760 them in the kitchen. Everyone comes and taste, and we 0:02:19.800 --> 0:02:22.040 figure out what works what doesn't work. We learn a 0:02:22.080 --> 0:02:24.560 lot from that process. We cobble together what we call 0:02:24.560 --> 0:02:28.040 our working recipe, and that's what we'll test true scientific method, 0:02:28.280 --> 0:02:30.880 trial and error against over a period about six weeks. 0:02:31.800 --> 0:02:34.240 I should have asked you before I came here, because 0:02:34.360 --> 0:02:38.400 we recently discovered something weird about pacha shoe. Uh huh? 0:02:38.840 --> 0:02:41.200 Now are you you make pacha shoe? Right? 0:02:41.320 --> 0:02:41.840 Absolutely? 0:02:41.919 --> 0:02:44.760 Yeah, Well, what's your recipe? America's Test Kitchen has just 0:02:44.840 --> 0:02:49.799 published their new twenty fifth anniversary cookbook called America's Test 0:02:49.919 --> 0:02:54.400 Kitchen five hundred favorite recipes, Yes, five hundred recipes that 0:02:54.520 --> 0:02:58.080 changed the way America cooks. So let's see what your 0:02:58.120 --> 0:03:02.000 pacha shoe recipe says. I'm very curious because I did 0:03:02.040 --> 0:03:04.880 not refer to yours when I was testing my recipe. 0:03:04.960 --> 0:03:05.320 You did it? 0:03:05.440 --> 0:03:08.359 No, I didn't. But I did refer to an awful 0:03:08.400 --> 0:03:11.600 lot of classic recipes for pata shoe, and I found 0:03:11.600 --> 0:03:13.239 a really unusual fact. 0:03:13.480 --> 0:03:14.080 What did you find? 0:03:14.080 --> 0:03:16.600 Well that they're pretty much all exactly the same. 0:03:16.840 --> 0:03:17.840 Yes, they definitely are. 0:03:18.160 --> 0:03:21.880 Goujear is a way of baking the pata shoe dough. 0:03:22.080 --> 0:03:26.160 So we have two large eggs plus one large egg white, 0:03:26.639 --> 0:03:29.880 five tablespoons of butter, two tablespoons of milk, six tablespoons 0:03:29.919 --> 0:03:32.400 of water, a little bit of salt and sugar, and 0:03:32.440 --> 0:03:35.080 then half a cup of all purpose flour. 0:03:35.160 --> 0:03:38.160 Oh, so that makes a very few pata shoe twenty 0:03:38.240 --> 0:03:42.360 four little foals. Yes. So I had a young man 0:03:42.440 --> 0:03:45.480 working in my kitchen and I said, oh, please make 0:03:45.640 --> 0:03:50.000 guget four cocktails for tonight. And he made the gujeer 0:03:50.120 --> 0:03:53.280 and they were the best guget I have ever tasted. 0:03:53.640 --> 0:03:54.680 Did he mess something up? 0:03:54.760 --> 0:03:57.480 Well, he didn't mess it up. He actually fixed it. 0:03:57.880 --> 0:04:03.640 And he used twelve eggs per cup per cup of flour. Wow, 0:04:03.680 --> 0:04:08.120 And it made the lightest, fluffiest, most hollow gouge air 0:04:08.200 --> 0:04:10.600 you've ever seen. And he didn't put the cheese in 0:04:10.640 --> 0:04:13.440 the dough. He put the cheese on top, very very 0:04:13.480 --> 0:04:16.240 finely grated cheese. He used to a rasp, but would 0:04:16.320 --> 0:04:18.680 rasp to grate the cheese and it was He put 0:04:18.680 --> 0:04:21.080 it on top of the dough and that sat out. 0:04:21.120 --> 0:04:25.120 He said for a while it the best. So obviously 0:04:25.160 --> 0:04:27.880 the four eggs was somebody's idea that that's really what 0:04:27.920 --> 0:04:30.240 it should be. For one cup of flour. Yeah, and 0:04:30.400 --> 0:04:32.520 it doesn't have to be I love that and I 0:04:32.560 --> 0:04:34.400 loved it. I just loved that, and I thought, I 0:04:34.480 --> 0:04:36.839 actually did think of America's Test Kitchen and I was 0:04:36.880 --> 0:04:39.600 doing that, yeah, wondering did they ever find that out? 0:04:40.000 --> 0:04:43.400 Well, so, yeah, so it sounds like that's even twice 0:04:43.400 --> 0:04:46.240 what we have in this recipe. We use a one 0:04:46.320 --> 0:04:49.720 less yolk in our recipe. Fat has that tenderizing effect 0:04:49.839 --> 0:04:51.840 on baked goods, so we get less spring out of it, 0:04:52.120 --> 0:04:54.480 so we have a dryer, fluffier result from the egg white. 0:04:54.640 --> 0:04:56.600 But it makes sense to me that more eggs you're 0:04:56.640 --> 0:04:59.800 gonna have more leavening power and more ability to trap back. 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:04.360 See your lighter, Yeah, more tender it really worse. 0:05:04.120 --> 0:05:05.159 Try it, I will I definitely. 0:05:05.600 --> 0:05:07.480 I saw the photo in your book and you can 0:05:07.560 --> 0:05:09.520 see like sunlight poking through them. 0:05:09.520 --> 0:05:11.400 It looks so light. Yeah, I will say, I've never 0:05:11.400 --> 0:05:12.640 seen the goose that looks. 0:05:13.000 --> 0:05:13.720 It's kind of fun. 0:05:13.800 --> 0:05:14.440 Yeah, I love that. 0:05:14.520 --> 0:05:17.520 But that just it just makes me think that cooking 0:05:17.760 --> 0:05:21.440 is a science, and it is it is a science 0:05:21.480 --> 0:05:24.080 that changes according to the Women of. 0:05:24.080 --> 0:05:26.560 The Ship, actually well exactly, and that trial and error 0:05:26.640 --> 0:05:29.039 is so key to our process. You know, we we 0:05:29.080 --> 0:05:31.000 don't find things out unless we try them and see 0:05:31.000 --> 0:05:33.359 if they make it or fail. When we're finally happy 0:05:33.400 --> 0:05:35.320 with the recipe in house, we also do this kind 0:05:35.360 --> 0:05:38.440 of big in the real world experiment where we send 0:05:38.480 --> 0:05:41.680 our recipes to forty thousand home cooks that actually volunteer 0:05:41.760 --> 0:05:43.839 to make our recipes before we publish them. We learn 0:05:43.839 --> 0:05:44.680 a ton from that process. 0:05:44.720 --> 0:05:48.680 Forty thousands yeah wow, yeah, get who's sits through that. 0:05:49.200 --> 0:05:52.359 So we luckily have a survey system that like manages it. 0:05:52.400 --> 0:05:53.920 But so we look at a lot of things where 0:05:53.920 --> 0:05:56.039 like if someone couldn't find an ingredient, we'd like to 0:05:56.040 --> 0:05:59.080 know if something was awkward, But we always look for 0:05:59.400 --> 0:06:01.719 an eighty make again score, like would you make the 0:06:01.760 --> 0:06:04.120 recipe and add it to your repertoire. That's really our 0:06:04.160 --> 0:06:07.120 standard because that's how you change someone's life and actually 0:06:07.440 --> 0:06:08.159 incorporate into it. 0:06:08.200 --> 0:06:09.239 So that's that's sort of our process. 0:06:09.279 --> 0:06:12.159 That's been the most successful, that's been the most disastrous 0:06:12.200 --> 0:06:13.200 test you've ever done? 0:06:13.560 --> 0:06:19.560 Oh, disaster, We've had some. We have some big disasters here, 0:06:19.800 --> 0:06:22.400 I would say. So I worked on a macarone recipe. 0:06:22.440 --> 0:06:25.800 So the beautiful little French cookies for a very long time, 0:06:25.800 --> 0:06:28.000 probably much longer than six weeks, and I could never. 0:06:27.960 --> 0:06:29.480 Get them as good as Lade. 0:06:29.720 --> 0:06:32.720 Absolutely not. No, so I I we did, I would 0:06:32.720 --> 0:06:33.600 get it. You did. 0:06:33.640 --> 0:06:35.680 So we have a recipe now that is as good 0:06:35.680 --> 0:06:38.480 as lottera. But for me, I had so many variable 0:06:38.839 --> 0:06:41.400 variables and it would fail sometimes and work other times. 0:06:41.440 --> 0:06:43.760 I wasn't happy with it, and so our home testers 0:06:43.800 --> 0:06:45.960 never had success. So I put it away for years. 0:06:46.240 --> 0:06:48.279 When I took over as editor in chief of Cooks, iilltrated. 0:06:48.320 --> 0:06:50.040 I assigned it to someone and he did a much 0:06:50.080 --> 0:06:50.920 better job than I did. 0:06:50.960 --> 0:06:53.120 No, it can be done, yes, and it can't. They 0:06:53.200 --> 0:06:54.160 can be made at home. 0:06:54.279 --> 0:06:54.520 Yep. 0:06:54.720 --> 0:06:57.800 And and we we found that out, and we we've 0:06:57.880 --> 0:07:02.440 we've tried to demystify you know, difficult recipes like the 0:07:02.480 --> 0:07:05.040 best brioche. You know, it's hard to hard to do 0:07:05.080 --> 0:07:08.159 that brioche the way the way you really wanted to 0:07:08.200 --> 0:07:11.160 turn out. And I do little tests. You probably do 0:07:11.200 --> 0:07:13.240 the same thing. I mean, I did a cost test 0:07:13.320 --> 0:07:17.760 in New York City, who makes the best costal? And 0:07:17.760 --> 0:07:20.080 and well at the first the first time I did it, 0:07:20.120 --> 0:07:21.880 and this was quite a few years ago, and they 0:07:21.920 --> 0:07:25.560 don't exist anymore. Was the Petrosian Bakery? Oh really yep, 0:07:25.640 --> 0:07:29.720 right on fifteen ninth Street, I think, And they made 0:07:29.840 --> 0:07:33.880 the best costle and then they closed their bakery, so 0:07:33.920 --> 0:07:36.960 then I had to search and search again, and then 0:07:37.000 --> 0:07:42.000 I found that Laderie made the best according to our 0:07:42.040 --> 0:07:47.880 little independent survey, and they were very, very good. And 0:07:47.920 --> 0:07:51.200 now so many people are making good class on which 0:07:51.240 --> 0:07:51.640 is nice. 0:07:51.720 --> 0:07:53.360 It's true. And people make them at home too. 0:07:53.480 --> 0:07:55.560 Oh, of course I make them at home. I when 0:07:55.600 --> 0:07:58.120 I was starting, when I started catering, there was no 0:07:58.160 --> 0:08:01.000 place to buy costal sure, and so I had to 0:08:01.000 --> 0:08:04.800 make them. And I followed Julia Child's recipe and volume two, 0:08:05.520 --> 0:08:08.440 that twenty two page recipe, and I don't can't remember 0:08:08.440 --> 0:08:09.280 how many pages it were. 0:08:09.800 --> 0:08:12.440 I could always tell the challenge of her recipes. 0:08:12.080 --> 0:08:15.280 Basically, but they were delicious. My daughter still remembers that 0:08:15.320 --> 0:08:18.240 mine were the best costume she has ever tasted of them, 0:08:18.240 --> 0:08:20.520 which is nice. They were really Julia's, but they were 0:08:20.760 --> 0:08:24.520 I made them. But how interesting that that things have 0:08:24.640 --> 0:08:25.400 changed so much? 0:08:25.480 --> 0:08:26.640 It's true, it's true. 0:08:27.000 --> 0:08:32.040 So what motivated you to follow a career in culinary 0:08:32.200 --> 0:08:33.840 like this? And what is your background? 0:08:33.880 --> 0:08:37.160 Just briefly, Yeah, so I went to the culinary instead 0:08:37.160 --> 0:08:38.480 of America for culinary school. 0:08:38.480 --> 0:08:40.280 Actual he graduated first in his class. 0:08:40.320 --> 0:08:43.600 I read that my mom loves that back she loves 0:08:43.840 --> 0:08:46.360 She's also a Martha by the way, with a beautiful garden. 0:08:46.440 --> 0:08:46.680 Yes. 0:08:48.040 --> 0:08:51.079 So I worked in restaurants in Boston and New York. 0:08:51.120 --> 0:08:53.040 I spent a little time at Lebernon Dan and I 0:08:53.120 --> 0:08:56.760 loved restaurants for the sort of repetition and the speed 0:08:56.840 --> 0:08:59.080 and how fast you could get. But I've always just 0:08:59.080 --> 0:09:02.120 been incredibly curiou this person, and so the test kitchen 0:09:02.200 --> 0:09:04.000 really was a good home for me where I could 0:09:04.280 --> 0:09:06.240 have a big question about food and go after and 0:09:06.320 --> 0:09:08.360 chase it and they would pay for all the food 0:09:08.400 --> 0:09:10.880 and pay for my time. And then I love writing, 0:09:10.920 --> 0:09:12.959 so it gave me an outlet for that. It really 0:09:13.040 --> 0:09:14.920 brought together a lot more so. Food media for me 0:09:15.080 --> 0:09:17.640 was an extension of what I could learn in the kitchen, 0:09:18.000 --> 0:09:20.000 but just more broadly and not in the science part 0:09:20.040 --> 0:09:20.960 of it too is big And. 0:09:20.840 --> 0:09:24.960 You stayed in Boston, which is which has very excellent 0:09:25.480 --> 0:09:30.720 restaurant some very excellent developmental chefs up here, but you've 0:09:30.720 --> 0:09:32.520 never been tempted to come back to New York. 0:09:32.800 --> 0:09:35.080 So I love New York. My roots are really here. 0:09:35.200 --> 0:09:36.040 I have my family. 0:09:36.320 --> 0:09:40.160 Yeah, my family is either from Maine or Massachusetts, and 0:09:40.679 --> 0:09:42.760 so I had my roots side, my friends, and honestly, 0:09:42.800 --> 0:09:44.679 the test kitchen. I fell in love with this place 0:09:45.559 --> 0:09:48.000 sixteen years ago when I got the job of test cook, 0:09:48.880 --> 0:09:49.560 and I haven't left. 0:09:49.600 --> 0:09:50.080 I just love it. 0:09:50.160 --> 0:09:53.080 I keep taking on new and fun different jobs. But 0:09:53.120 --> 0:09:54.040 it's a really great place. 0:09:54.840 --> 0:09:57.360 And so Cook's Illustrated. It was one of my favorite 0:09:57.400 --> 0:10:00.920 magazines for a long time. Yeah, Kimball, he was my 0:10:00.960 --> 0:10:02.000 neighbor in Fairfield. 0:10:02.040 --> 0:10:03.280 Oh was he really? Yeah? 0:10:03.280 --> 0:10:06.480 And I've known him for many, many years. And so 0:10:06.520 --> 0:10:07.960 how do they first notice you? 0:10:08.160 --> 0:10:11.000 So the application process to be a test cook involves 0:10:11.160 --> 0:10:14.880 recipe development. So you actually develop a recipe for a muffin, 0:10:14.920 --> 0:10:16.560 and then you submitted it along with a story, kind 0:10:16.600 --> 0:10:18.000 of in the style of Cooks Illustrated. 0:10:18.400 --> 0:10:18.920 So I did this. 0:10:19.240 --> 0:10:20.719 Even if you don't like muffins, I don't like. 0:10:21.040 --> 0:10:22.720 Even if you don't like muffins, you got a muffin 0:10:22.760 --> 0:10:23.400 rest me in your book. 0:10:23.559 --> 0:10:25.000 Huh, well, blueberry muffins. 0:10:25.400 --> 0:10:26.079 That doesn't count. 0:10:26.160 --> 0:10:29.040 But no, no, I put that in because it is 0:10:29.080 --> 0:10:31.920 one of my favorite muffins. But I still don't like I. 0:10:31.840 --> 0:10:33.480 Don't even Yeah, well, so I didn't. 0:10:33.480 --> 0:10:35.679 After this, I spent weeks working on a Cranberry U 0:10:35.720 --> 0:10:37.880 muffin and I submitted it along with a story, and 0:10:37.880 --> 0:10:40.400 I got a call from the editorial director and she said, 0:10:40.400 --> 0:10:43.640 we loved your story. Your recipe didn't work. I said, 0:10:43.640 --> 0:10:45.640 that's impossible. I had worked on it for weeks. I 0:10:45.960 --> 0:10:48.760 had gotten myself so tired of muffins. But she said, 0:10:48.800 --> 0:10:50.480 we're going to give you one more shot at fixing it. 0:10:50.720 --> 0:10:52.240 And I got this call when I was like driving 0:10:52.280 --> 0:10:55.719 home from the supermarket. I parked my car, I got out. 0:10:55.840 --> 0:10:57.960 Had you left out an ingredient when you sent it in? 0:10:58.200 --> 0:11:01.319 Well, so I figured out that one of the ratio, 0:11:01.440 --> 0:11:04.760 one of the measurements was off in the version that 0:11:04.800 --> 0:11:05.400 I sent them. 0:11:05.760 --> 0:11:06.920 But this is the crazy thing. 0:11:07.040 --> 0:11:08.560 So I parked my car, I got out, and I 0:11:08.600 --> 0:11:10.760 was walking to my apartment and there's a construction worker 0:11:10.760 --> 0:11:13.160 at the building next door and he goes, hey, your car, 0:11:13.440 --> 0:11:15.600 And I whip around and my car is cruising down 0:11:15.640 --> 0:11:18.160 the driveway at this steep grade and plows into the 0:11:18.160 --> 0:11:20.840 garage door of my neighbor. I forgot to put the 0:11:20.840 --> 0:11:24.360 car in gear and pull the emergency. It was so 0:11:24.440 --> 0:11:26.720 focused on the recipe and then he was looking at 0:11:26.760 --> 0:11:28.240 me like I was crazy. But I just turned around 0:11:28.240 --> 0:11:30.560 and walked inside and opened my laptop up to like 0:11:30.640 --> 0:11:33.600 fix the recipe. I just left the car because I 0:11:33.640 --> 0:11:36.160 wanted to do this. I want to do this so bad. Okay, 0:11:36.200 --> 0:11:37.680 and it worked, and it worked. 0:11:37.720 --> 0:11:39.679 Yeah. I sent the next version and it was fine. 0:11:40.360 --> 0:11:43.000 Well, you've held so many roles at America's Test Kitchen, 0:11:43.320 --> 0:11:47.040 Test Cook, editor in chief of Cook's Illustrated, on air 0:11:47.160 --> 0:11:51.600 science expert, creator of What's Eating Dan, and now chief 0:11:51.640 --> 0:11:55.240 content officer of the entire company? What role has been 0:11:55.240 --> 0:11:56.000 the most fulfilling? 0:11:56.559 --> 0:11:58.360 So this probably won't come as a surprise to you, 0:11:58.440 --> 0:12:00.480 but editor in chief of Cooks Illustrated it has been. 0:12:00.640 --> 0:12:02.320 I've been done that for the last seven years, and 0:12:02.360 --> 0:12:06.680 it's been so incredibly satisfying. Making a magazine is, as 0:12:06.720 --> 0:12:10.360 you know, this all all in sort of proposition, and 0:12:10.400 --> 0:12:12.480 I love that we can sweat over every word and 0:12:12.520 --> 0:12:15.320 every image and you can just see our fingerprints all 0:12:15.320 --> 0:12:17.280 over each issue of it. I work with an incredible 0:12:17.320 --> 0:12:20.120 team and we just asked really big questions about food and. 0:12:20.080 --> 0:12:20.760 Go and tackle them. 0:12:20.800 --> 0:12:22.440 What's been the most challenging job. 0:12:22.880 --> 0:12:25.320 Most challenging job I think is the same I think, yeah, 0:12:25.360 --> 0:12:26.800 I think it is editor in cheap I love doing 0:12:26.960 --> 0:12:27.720 the stuff on TV. 0:12:28.440 --> 0:12:29.680 It comes pretty naturally to me. 0:12:29.800 --> 0:12:32.719 But the managing a team making something like that, it's 0:12:33.160 --> 0:12:35.520 been a big role, very satisfying. 0:12:35.000 --> 0:12:38.599 Though, And Cooks Illustrated has really garnered a lot of 0:12:38.679 --> 0:12:41.480 attention and an awful lot of fans. How many people 0:12:41.559 --> 0:12:43.199 subscribe to Cooks Illustrated. 0:12:43.600 --> 0:12:46.600 We have about seven hundred thousand subscribers right now, and 0:12:46.600 --> 0:12:49.359 we actually won a national magazine work for General Excellence 0:12:50.040 --> 0:12:52.360 two years ago, the first time in our history. 0:12:52.520 --> 0:12:55.200 Yeah, so it's under your tutelage, under my tutelage. Yes, 0:12:55.280 --> 0:12:56.559 I'm pretty good, very proud of it. 0:12:56.679 --> 0:13:00.280 Yeah, yeah, it's really fun. No, I miss having the 0:13:00.280 --> 0:13:03.600 printed magazine, and Martha Stuart Living is now you know, 0:13:03.679 --> 0:13:09.040 basically online. Sure, we're doing some SIPs special interest publications, yes, 0:13:09.080 --> 0:13:12.000 we do for six a year now, which are fun 0:13:12.040 --> 0:13:15.040 to do, but it's not the same as doing that 0:13:15.440 --> 0:13:21.000 monthly real difficult production of a beautiful magazine. It's true, 0:13:21.080 --> 0:13:25.200 and and but people's taste for magazines has really changed, 0:13:26.200 --> 0:13:28.920 so we're looking for information in so many different places. 0:13:29.240 --> 0:13:33.360 How else does America's Test Kitchen relate information and recipes 0:13:33.400 --> 0:13:34.640 to your members? 0:13:34.840 --> 0:13:37.160 Yeah, So I love magazines, I love print, I always will, 0:13:37.200 --> 0:13:40.560 but our web membership, our digital subscription is really the 0:13:40.920 --> 0:13:43.040 sort of you know, it's the highest quality, the most 0:13:43.040 --> 0:13:45.960 polished version of our content. And we're imagining really cool 0:13:46.000 --> 0:13:48.440 and interesting ways to present recipes. I mean, obviously, when 0:13:48.480 --> 0:13:50.680 you have video and you have the ability to really 0:13:50.679 --> 0:13:53.120 break down steps for people, it's a much better tool 0:13:53.160 --> 0:13:55.920 for teaching and learning. So I love that we're putting 0:13:55.920 --> 0:13:57.480 a ton of effort into that moving forward. 0:13:57.600 --> 0:14:00.200 Yeah, when I go back to find a recipe, like 0:14:00.280 --> 0:14:03.199 I was making stuff peppers this weekend, it's so many 0:14:03.240 --> 0:14:05.480 stuff peppers in the garden and I had to pick 0:14:05.520 --> 0:14:07.960 them before the frost. Oh sure, And so I made 0:14:08.040 --> 0:14:12.720 two giant giant pots of stuffed peppers green peppers and 0:14:12.760 --> 0:14:15.600 two red peppers and one yellow pep. But I used 0:14:15.600 --> 0:14:17.600 ground turkey, And of course I don't have a recipe 0:14:17.640 --> 0:14:21.600 for that particular thing. But I love stuff peppers. I 0:14:21.640 --> 0:14:27.040 think it's the polish background. But I go to the website, 0:14:27.120 --> 0:14:29.920 I look, and I rarely go to other people's websites 0:14:29.960 --> 0:14:32.960 for things that I know I love that I probably 0:14:33.000 --> 0:14:35.640 have made in the past sometime and it was just 0:14:35.720 --> 0:14:37.880 it's just fun to go back and see and how 0:14:37.920 --> 0:14:40.960 easy it is to retrieve a recipe online. And that's 0:14:40.960 --> 0:14:43.160 what people are doing now totally so much. 0:14:43.240 --> 0:14:44.920 So, yeah, we have the ability to like save a 0:14:45.000 --> 0:14:47.400 recipe and you can come back to build these collections. 0:14:47.960 --> 0:14:49.960 It's much higher touch and yeah, yeah, it's the most 0:14:50.000 --> 0:14:52.160 kind of premium experience. I got stuff peppers too, I 0:14:52.200 --> 0:14:52.440 love them. 0:14:52.520 --> 0:14:55.040 You did. Yeah, And then some friends of mine made 0:14:55.040 --> 0:14:58.200 stuff my mother's stuff cabbage over the weekend and they 0:14:58.200 --> 0:15:01.520 sent me pictures of their stuff cabbage and they had 0:15:01.560 --> 0:15:05.560 gotten that recipe online also, So it's so funny. That's 0:15:05.760 --> 0:15:10.200 that's the way people are referencing information so so much 0:15:10.240 --> 0:15:13.480 more than ever before. It's true, it's true, And you 0:15:13.480 --> 0:15:15.440 have a lot of subscribers to to your information. 0:15:15.840 --> 0:15:19.200 We do, how many, Yes, we have over five hundred 0:15:19.240 --> 0:15:22.400 thousand web members, but we're everywhere, right, so we've got 0:15:22.440 --> 0:15:25.920 two and a half million on YouTube. Really some amazing 0:15:25.920 --> 0:15:29.760 original shows they are, including What's Tone and Techniquely with 0:15:30.120 --> 0:15:32.800 my colleague long Lamb, it's like all about technique really 0:15:32.800 --> 0:15:35.560 about teaching in that forum, and then you know, we're 0:15:35.560 --> 0:15:36.440 all over social media. 0:15:36.440 --> 0:15:39.120 It's Instagram and well the Instagram. Like this morning, I 0:15:39.160 --> 0:15:41.840 was in the car coming up to Boston and just 0:15:41.840 --> 0:15:45.120 just turned on just the stream, you know, just watching 0:15:45.200 --> 0:15:47.760 and watching reels on the way, and you learn so 0:15:48.000 --> 0:15:52.720 much in a few minutes of watching a few cooking reels, 0:15:53.160 --> 0:15:56.240 you learn so much. And it's you know, learn how 0:15:56.240 --> 0:15:59.320 to make a dumpling a different way, or you learn 0:15:59.360 --> 0:16:01.320 how to chop it onion in a different way, or 0:16:01.360 --> 0:16:04.200 so chase something a different way, and it's and there's 0:16:04.320 --> 0:16:07.040 so much information out there from all over the world, 0:16:07.160 --> 0:16:09.040 which makes it very interesting. 0:16:08.720 --> 0:16:09.120 Very interesting. 0:16:09.320 --> 0:16:11.960 I agree, and I think we love writing a lot 0:16:11.960 --> 0:16:14.920 about recipes, whether it's a fifteen hundred word article in 0:16:14.960 --> 0:16:17.760 the magazine. But I actually am like such an evangelist 0:16:17.760 --> 0:16:21.200 for social video because in forty five seconds and sixty seconds, 0:16:21.200 --> 0:16:22.560 we can teach you a technique. 0:16:22.560 --> 0:16:24.200 We can teach you how to cook a steak a 0:16:24.200 --> 0:16:27.240 certain way or whatever. And it's a cold steak that 0:16:27.320 --> 0:16:28.040 the cold steak. 0:16:27.920 --> 0:16:30.240 Yeah, your cold stake telling the audience what your full 0:16:30.360 --> 0:16:30.880 steak is. 0:16:31.040 --> 0:16:34.680 So we have a cold seared steak, which sounds a 0:16:34.680 --> 0:16:38.680 little bit crazy, but really it's throwing out everything you 0:16:38.800 --> 0:16:40.920 kind of learned about steak cookery. So instead of a 0:16:40.960 --> 0:16:43.360 ripping hot skillet and tons of oil, we use a 0:16:43.400 --> 0:16:46.880 cold pan and no oil, And instead of flipping one 0:16:46.920 --> 0:16:49.360 time halfway through, we flip it frequently, every two minutes. 0:16:49.840 --> 0:16:51.880 And so here's what happened to kind of steak. So 0:16:51.920 --> 0:16:53.479 we start with either a strip steak. 0:16:53.280 --> 0:16:55.640 Or a rabi. You want to good enough marveling. 0:16:55.240 --> 0:16:56.960 That some of that fat will render out right, So 0:16:57.000 --> 0:16:59.000 you start it cold and you turn the heat up, 0:16:59.080 --> 0:17:01.080 and as is cooking, you flip every two minutes, and 0:17:01.120 --> 0:17:02.840 you add browning on the outside the same way you 0:17:02.840 --> 0:17:05.320 would paint a house layer after layer. So by the 0:17:05.400 --> 0:17:07.880 time the inside is warm to that perfect medium rare, 0:17:08.080 --> 0:17:10.720 the outside is gorgeous and brown turns everything kind of 0:17:10.760 --> 0:17:12.360 on its head. But it makes sense when you really 0:17:12.400 --> 0:17:14.560 think about. You know, what the interior needs and what 0:17:14.600 --> 0:17:17.000 the exterior needs, but it's cooking in its own beef fat. 0:17:17.040 --> 0:17:17.920 So it's really wonderful. 0:17:18.000 --> 0:17:32.679 Yeah, yummy. What dish do most cooks home cooks ask for? 0:17:34.040 --> 0:17:34.840 That's a good question. 0:17:35.119 --> 0:17:36.919 I mean one of the biggest questions is like chicken, 0:17:37.040 --> 0:17:38.320 Like what do I do with chicken? How do I 0:17:38.320 --> 0:17:41.200 add flavor or salmon or salmon. Salmon is a really 0:17:41.200 --> 0:17:41.560 big one. 0:17:41.560 --> 0:17:42.879 What's your favorite way to cook salmon? 0:17:43.560 --> 0:17:45.480 So this whe it's sound like a broken record, but 0:17:45.520 --> 0:17:47.639 we have a cold start method for that as well. 0:17:48.000 --> 0:17:51.280 You know, farmery salmon nowadays is very fatty, has a 0:17:51.280 --> 0:17:51.879 lot of fat in its. 0:17:51.920 --> 0:17:53.160 We're not allowed to have it. 0:17:53.600 --> 0:17:54.480 You're not allowed to have it. 0:17:54.600 --> 0:17:57.000 No, that salmon has to be lined, caught. 0:17:57.000 --> 0:17:58.960 Lin caught, line caught wild. Well, even if you get 0:17:59.040 --> 0:17:59.840 like king salmon there. 0:18:01.960 --> 0:18:03.840