1 00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:10,200 Speaker 1: Welcome to Prognosis. I'm Laura Carlson. It's day eighty four 2 00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:15,120 Speaker 1: since coronavirus was declared a global pandemic. Our main story. 3 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:21,000 Speaker 1: Dozens of pharmaceutical companies are pouring resources into developing new 4 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:24,120 Speaker 1: drugs that can help blunt the effects of the pandemic, 5 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:28,280 Speaker 1: but the outbreak has halted the momentum behind a bill 6 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:32,400 Speaker 1: that would slow the rising price of such drugs. Still, 7 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:37,920 Speaker 1: Senator Chuck Grassley told Bloomberg he believes drug price reform 8 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:49,800 Speaker 1: isn't dead yet. But first, here's what happened today. Protests 9 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:53,720 Speaker 1: against police violence continued in every state in the US 10 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:58,120 Speaker 1: and some cities around the world. Some protesters defied US 11 00:00:58,120 --> 00:01:05,319 Speaker 1: city curfews, but demonstrate raiders were overwhelmingly peaceful. Still, President 12 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:09,880 Speaker 1: Donald Trump on Wednesday urged police to get tough and 13 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 1: appeared to double down on his support for the use 14 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:19,319 Speaker 1: of greater force to quell protests. The pandemic isn't finished 15 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:23,199 Speaker 1: with the US labor market. Economists believe a second wave 16 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 1: of job cuts is around the corner, and this one 17 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:32,279 Speaker 1: will hit white collar workers particularly hard. Close to six 18 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:36,360 Speaker 1: million jobs are potentially on the line, according to Bloomberg Economics, 19 00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:41,360 Speaker 1: that includes higher paid supervisors in sectors where frontline workers 20 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:47,040 Speaker 1: were hit first, such as restaurants in hotels. Industries connected 21 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:50,280 Speaker 1: to those service sectors will also see a knock on effect, 22 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:56,920 Speaker 1: like professional services, finance, and real estate. The extent and 23 00:01:57,040 --> 00:02:00,760 Speaker 1: details of the spillover job cuts will start to reveal 24 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 1: themselves Friday, when the government releases its May employment report. 25 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 1: The unemployment rate probably soared to nineteen point five, the 26 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:18,440 Speaker 1: highest since the Great Depression. New York Governor Andrew Cuomo 27 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:23,440 Speaker 1: declared victory over the coronavirus pandemic, touting the lowest daily 28 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:28,600 Speaker 1: death toll and hospitalization rate since it began, but in Florida, 29 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:33,880 Speaker 1: cases jumped the most in nearly two weeks. Florida began 30 00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:43,680 Speaker 1: a phased reopening on May four, and now our main story. 31 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:49,280 Speaker 1: The drug industry has been pouring resources into researching and 32 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 1: developing treatments and vaccines for COVID nineteen that has helped 33 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:59,400 Speaker 1: quiet a long running debate over rising prescription costs. The 34 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:03,760 Speaker 1: pharmaceutical industry hopes that efforts to reform drug pricing, which 35 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 1: had bipartisan support before the pandemic, are now dead, But 36 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:13,960 Speaker 1: Senate Finance Committee Chairman Chuck Grassley insists that the long 37 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 1: delayed drug price bill he is co sponsoring will get 38 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:22,120 Speaker 1: a vote this year. The bill would limit drug price increases. 39 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 1: Grasslely worries that if the bill doesn't pass, drugmakers will 40 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:32,239 Speaker 1: charge whatever they want for COVID nineteen related drugs and 41 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:35,880 Speaker 1: the Court and Riley Griffin spoke to Senator Grassley about 42 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 1: what coronavirus means for his efforts to stem the rising 43 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:50,560 Speaker 1: price of drugs. So, Riley and Emma, can you tell 44 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:52,720 Speaker 1: us a bit about this drug price bill that the 45 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 1: senators vonagon It is a co authored bill by Senator 46 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 1: Chuck Grassley and Democratic Senator Ron Wyden. One key component 47 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:07,720 Speaker 1: of this bill is what some call an inflation cap, 48 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:12,240 Speaker 1: others call an inflation rebate, but it would ultimately penalize 49 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 1: drugmakers that raise prices past the rate of inflation. That 50 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 1: is one of the sticking points of this bill. It's 51 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:23,719 Speaker 1: one that has a little bit more disagreement within the committee, 52 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:27,840 Speaker 1: but ultimately what makes it so novel um, but there's 53 00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:31,279 Speaker 1: been a slow burn in getting this across the finish line. 54 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:35,040 Speaker 1: We haven't yet seen this bill introduced by Mitch McConnell 55 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:38,600 Speaker 1: to the to the broader Senate. But M and I 56 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:42,599 Speaker 1: spoke with Senator Chuck Grassley about his bill, which many 57 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:46,159 Speaker 1: have considered dead. To be quite frank, it's missed a 58 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:50,040 Speaker 1: couple of key deadlines. He suggests that this bill is 59 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 1: not dead. In fact, it has more potentially momentum than 60 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:58,000 Speaker 1: ever as we look forward and consider affordability questions related 61 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:02,080 Speaker 1: to the coronavirus. So, the price of drugs has been 62 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 1: a hot button topic in America for years. Why are 63 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:11,720 Speaker 1: we hearing about this bill now? In some corners of 64 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:15,560 Speaker 1: this debate, you know, the perspective is that drug pricing 65 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:18,480 Speaker 1: is is kind of this debate is over right. COVID 66 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:21,800 Speaker 1: nineteen has sort of, you know, many people have said, 67 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:24,280 Speaker 1: sucked the oxygen out of the room. I mean, we're 68 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:28,480 Speaker 1: basically plowing as many as resources as possible into trying 69 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:31,800 Speaker 1: to alleviate the health as well as economic impact of 70 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:36,320 Speaker 1: this pandemic. In many ways, the Republicans and Democrats have 71 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 1: have been talking about drug pricing for years, haven't reached 72 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:42,560 Speaker 1: a consensus, even though Americans have, you know, said for 73 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 1: a long time they're worried about the price of their medication. 74 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:47,840 Speaker 1: They're worried about whether they can afford to keep taking 75 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:50,360 Speaker 1: the medication. You know, we've been talking about drug pricing 76 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:53,840 Speaker 1: for so long nothing has happened. Can we really do 77 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:57,080 Speaker 1: anything now that there's a pandemic on um But you know, 78 00:05:57,120 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 1: when Riley and I spoke with Chuck Grassley, the senators 79 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:02,960 Speaker 1: sort of said, this is the right time to address it. 80 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:08,680 Speaker 1: Right the need for drugs affordability is still central to 81 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:13,560 Speaker 1: our conversation. It also highlights the need to act for 82 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:18,040 Speaker 1: the next pandemic right now. There's nothing to stop bad 83 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:25,120 Speaker 1: actors in the pharmaceutical industry from hiking prices astronomically when 84 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:30,240 Speaker 1: the next pandemic would hit. So there's no reason whatsoever 85 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:34,680 Speaker 1: for delay of our legislation given that we are so 86 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:39,240 Speaker 1: reliant on the pharmaceutical industry to make these vaccines and 87 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:42,320 Speaker 1: therapeutics that will hopefully get us out of this public 88 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:45,159 Speaker 1: health crisis. And I thought that was a really interesting point. 89 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:47,040 Speaker 1: But I think you know a lot of folks who 90 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:50,080 Speaker 1: have been watching this would would probably disagree with him 91 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 1: about the feasibility of getting legislation passed at this moment. 92 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:57,720 Speaker 1: So I am wondering on that point. With the new 93 00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:02,560 Speaker 1: relevance of vaccine therapeutics, as you mentioned, for COVID nineteen. 94 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 1: Are there elements in that bill that will specifically address 95 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 1: these What Senator Chuck Grassley had said was fundamentally, those 96 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 1: provisions do impact any pharmaceutical, whether it's a vaccine, whether 97 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 1: it's a therapeutic. It's not necessarily limited to COVID nineteen treatments, 98 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 1: but it touches diabetes, it touches cancer therapies, it touches immunology, drugs, 99 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:30,320 Speaker 1: um and very much so when we have this conversation, 100 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:34,040 Speaker 1: for the most part, um it's about branded drugs, right, 101 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:36,920 Speaker 1: not your off patent generics which account for nine and 102 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 1: ten medicines in in your cabinets, but newer drugs coming 103 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:48,559 Speaker 1: to market with pricier tags. Regardless, healthcare is the number 104 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 1: one issues for voters. We know that going into the 105 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:57,120 Speaker 1: presidential election, healthcare has taken the number one slot. It 106 00:07:57,320 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 1: is interesting to consider whether or not the drug pricing 107 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:06,080 Speaker 1: debate itself will shift in the wake of the coronavirus, 108 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 1: whether or not you'll see lawmakers take a more sympathetic 109 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:14,680 Speaker 1: view in their relationships with the pharmaceutical industry, because remember 110 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 1: that relationship between Washington and Fharma had been quite antagonistic 111 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:22,720 Speaker 1: up until this point, I think it's important to point 112 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 1: out also, you know, when we're talking about the Grassley 113 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 1: Widen Bill, for instance, that we're the focus here is 114 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:33,559 Speaker 1: is really on restricting how much drug companies can increase prices. Right. 115 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:36,480 Speaker 1: So there's this sort of almost annual or bi annual 116 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 1: tradition of of drug companies raising the prices of their 117 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 1: drugs in January and then again in the summer. And 118 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 1: this is what Grassley is really talking about in this bill. 119 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:49,960 Speaker 1: He says that you know, we asked him, are you 120 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 1: worried about what will happen with the pricing of COVID 121 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 1: nineteen products? And he said, without the Grassley Widen bill 122 00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:00,320 Speaker 1: is wild country. Whatever they want to price, said that 123 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:04,280 Speaker 1: they're going to because look at what happened January of 124 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:09,480 Speaker 1: this year, these fabulous increases in drugs. It's a wild West. 125 00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:13,000 Speaker 1: Another words, he said, drug companies could charge whatever they 126 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:15,800 Speaker 1: want to. But the reality is that this bill is 127 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 1: really focused on sort of what happens after drug companies 128 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:21,720 Speaker 1: price their product. Um. I would also sort of note 129 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:24,079 Speaker 1: that in some ways the conversation about drug pricing and 130 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 1: COVID nineteen is is almost academic and largely theoretical at 131 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:30,440 Speaker 1: this point, you know, we really haven't gotten to a 132 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:33,760 Speaker 1: point where we have you know, enough products that have 133 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:36,640 Speaker 1: been you know, approved for COVID nineteen that are are 134 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:38,600 Speaker 1: thought to be really helpful that that where we're going 135 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:41,760 Speaker 1: to have this kind of UM conversation really aired out. 136 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:46,480 Speaker 1: Is there a concern at all about the election potentially 137 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:51,200 Speaker 1: delaying the passing of this bill. Absolutely. I think that 138 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:54,360 Speaker 1: the expectation of the committee was first to have this 139 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:57,440 Speaker 1: done earlier in the year. UM. When I spoke with 140 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:01,840 Speaker 1: folks in Washington close to this bill last fall, for example, 141 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 1: the hard stop I was given was May, and we've 142 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:08,160 Speaker 1: passed that point. Right. The new date that's being floated 143 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:11,680 Speaker 1: is September. I think the closest the closer you get 144 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 1: to the election cycle, the more this becomes a politically 145 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:22,040 Speaker 1: charged package. Right. There really has to be the perfect 146 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:25,920 Speaker 1: storm to get this bill across the finish line before 147 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:30,680 Speaker 1: the election, and I would say more people than not 148 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:35,679 Speaker 1: are somewhat skeptical that that storm will come into play 149 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:40,360 Speaker 1: in this really tight timeline. I would also kind of 150 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:44,040 Speaker 1: note that, Um, what we heard from Chuck Grassley, which 151 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:46,480 Speaker 1: I thought was quite interesting, was he said, you know, 152 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:52,080 Speaker 1: pharma should want what we're doing here, because ultimately, you know, 153 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:56,160 Speaker 1: if Democrats come into power and d c um come September, 154 00:10:56,800 --> 00:11:00,160 Speaker 1: you know they're going to be proposing really aggressive of 155 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 1: changes to drug pricing. And I would think that Big 156 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:08,559 Speaker 1: Farmer would think in terms of keeping a Republican president 157 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 1: and a Republican majority in Congress pretty important because if 158 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:22,319 Speaker 1: we have a Democrat president and we have a Democratic Congress, 159 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:27,200 Speaker 1: which means that the government is going to be very 160 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:33,199 Speaker 1: deeply involved in setting drug prices. We've seen both Republicans 161 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 1: and Democrats talk about drug pricing a lot, especially in 162 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:39,199 Speaker 1: recent years, but their visions of sort of how it 163 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 1: should change are are very different. And finally, I did 164 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:44,920 Speaker 1: want to just circle back to a point both of 165 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:46,520 Speaker 1: you raised, but I was hoping that you might be 166 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:50,720 Speaker 1: able to dig deeper on it about overall the pharmaceutical 167 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:54,360 Speaker 1: industry's reaction to this proposed bill. What what what is 168 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:59,400 Speaker 1: their reaction? I think the pharmaceutical industry, the lobby companies, 169 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:02,440 Speaker 1: would say a lot of the rising drug costs aren't 170 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 1: actually attributable to those who manufacture the drugs, but to 171 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:09,160 Speaker 1: those that are outside of their control, and they'd like 172 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:13,600 Speaker 1: to see some changes made there, but this question, for example, 173 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:16,840 Speaker 1: of the inflation cap, that's not something that industry supports, 174 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:21,560 Speaker 1: there adamantly against it. And so if a delay is 175 00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:25,679 Speaker 1: here to seeing the Senate Finance Committee bill pass as is, 176 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:29,800 Speaker 1: that won't necessarily come as bad news too many as 177 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 1: the CEO of BIO the excuse me, the incoming CEO 178 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:38,079 Speaker 1: of BIO another trade organization said to US, any drug 179 00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 1: pricing reform that existed prior to this pandemic is quote 180 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:46,400 Speaker 1: obsolete um. And that's a that's a very interesting and 181 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 1: compelling perspective because it suggests that we have to start 182 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:56,400 Speaker 1: from scratch um. And I think that lawmakers like Senator 183 00:12:56,400 --> 00:13:00,240 Speaker 1: Grassley would be fairly opposed to the notion. And with 184 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:03,959 Speaker 1: COVID nineteen, you know, being such a huge kind of 185 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:08,520 Speaker 1: factor is the fact that the industry is really benefiting 186 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:11,520 Speaker 1: in terms of public perception. So people have been up 187 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:13,840 Speaker 1: in arms about the prices of drugs for years in 188 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:16,240 Speaker 1: the US, and suddenly, you know, we're turning to the 189 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:19,200 Speaker 1: pharmaceutical industry and saying, can you please come up with 190 00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:22,800 Speaker 1: a vaccine and some several vaccines and drugs so that 191 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:25,040 Speaker 1: we can kind of get out of this whole situation. 192 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:27,040 Speaker 1: I think you know you're going to see that be 193 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:30,920 Speaker 1: a really powerful tool shaping discourse, you know, in the 194 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:36,480 Speaker 1: coming months. That was m The Court and Riley Griffin. 195 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:39,920 Speaker 1: And that's our show today. For coverage of the outbreak 196 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:42,920 Speaker 1: from one D and twenty bureaus around the world, visit 197 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:47,959 Speaker 1: Bloomberg dot com slash Coronavirus and if you like the show, 198 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:51,320 Speaker 1: please leave us a review and a rating on Apple 199 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:54,800 Speaker 1: Podcasts or Spotify. It's the best way to help more 200 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:59,720 Speaker 1: listeners find our global reporting. The Prognosis Daily edition is 201 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 1: produced by Tobah Foreheads, Jordan Gaspure, Magnus Hendrickson and me 202 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 1: Laura Carlson. Today's main story was reported by Emma Court 203 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:15,440 Speaker 1: and Riley Griffin. Original music by Leo Sidran. Our editors 204 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:20,560 Speaker 1: are Francesca Levi and Rick Shine. Francesco Levi is Bloomberg's 205 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:23,200 Speaker 1: head of podcasts. Thanks for listening.