1 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind from how Stuff 2 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 3 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:16,759 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Julie Degla And 4 00:00:17,079 --> 00:00:19,040 Speaker 1: Julie I was looking around the Internet the other day 5 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 1: and I found this amazing theory which is completely out there, 6 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:27,960 Speaker 1: completely non factual, but it's it's kind of the genesis 7 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 1: for this, uh, this podcast, and it captured your imagination 8 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:34,919 Speaker 1: after is my imagination and serves to exemplify why this 9 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:37,800 Speaker 1: is an amazing uh concept, the idea of the technology 10 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:42,599 Speaker 1: of the ancients. Because the theory involves vedic nuclear war. 11 00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:48,560 Speaker 1: We're talking here right right, We're talking um atomic warfare 12 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:54,720 Speaker 1: in uh the first millennium BC, which is a crazy idea. 13 00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:56,440 Speaker 1: And let's let me just get to get it out 14 00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:58,840 Speaker 1: before I go into the details. Here. We do not 15 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:01,160 Speaker 1: buy into this at all. No, but I see a 16 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 1: movie here, like a Jerry Bruckheimer movie. Well it's interesting. 17 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:07,400 Speaker 1: I actually was looking around and Grant Morrison, who's a 18 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:12,880 Speaker 1: graphic novel comics sky brilliant, brilliant and weird Scottish dude. 19 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 1: He's apparently doing some sort of like sci fi adaptation 20 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:22,560 Speaker 1: of the you know, the ancient Vedic epic, the Mahabarata, 21 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:25,680 Speaker 1: and so so some people were thinking along these lines. 22 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:28,200 Speaker 1: But but yeah, this this theory which you'll find if 23 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:31,600 Speaker 1: you do a search for Mahabarata and uh, we're just 24 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 1: for nuclear warfare ancient India. You'll find just tons and 25 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:40,759 Speaker 1: tons of websites, all of them saying that, hey, um, 26 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 1: they're like radio There are these you know, the remains 27 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 1: of these ancient cities and their radioactive and there's a 28 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:50,440 Speaker 1: big crater and it's because there was nuclear warfare going 29 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 1: on way back in the days, because the ancient ancients 30 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:56,920 Speaker 1: had all this advanced technology that it took us centuries 31 00:01:56,960 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 1: millennia to to catch up with again after their fall 32 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:05,279 Speaker 1: all and they point to the Mahaparata as showing proof 33 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:07,440 Speaker 1: of this. Yeah, and I should mention too that if 34 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:09,840 Speaker 1: you go on such a quest on the internet, you 35 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:13,400 Speaker 1: may find yourself in some very odd places down the 36 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:15,919 Speaker 1: rabbit hole without like a rope. So yeah, we should 37 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:18,640 Speaker 1: just warn people of that, and certainly without a scientific rope. 38 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:23,360 Speaker 1: So so then, just to give a little background on 39 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:27,640 Speaker 1: the Mahaparata, this is a is an epic of ancient 40 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 1: India written in Sanskrit, and it's full of imagery of 41 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:38,400 Speaker 1: warring kings using utilizing like flying machines, terrifying energy weapons 42 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:42,080 Speaker 1: and and magic and gods. It's um it's the story 43 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:45,800 Speaker 1: of a great rivalry between two royal houses, the Kurus 44 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:50,880 Speaker 1: and the Pandavas and uh and it it kind of 45 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:53,120 Speaker 1: has its genesis in the first millennium BC in the 46 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:55,960 Speaker 1: form of just popular stories about gods and kings and 47 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:58,720 Speaker 1: so forth, UH and the But then it eventually gets 48 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:01,520 Speaker 1: written down and their additional date for the war uh 49 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 1: that it's that's the central event of this epic is 50 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 1: a thirteen O two PC, but most historians as signed 51 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:12,000 Speaker 1: it actually a later date. So you'll find a lot 52 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 1: of these web these crazy websites UM citing the Mahaparata. 53 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:20,359 Speaker 1: But they'll but they'll do this really annoying thing where 54 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:22,680 Speaker 1: they'll have like they'll have like a particular um, you know, 55 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 1: section of texts here and here where they're where it 56 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 1: sounds you know, it's like, hey, it sounds like they're 57 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 1: talking about, you know, somebody using some crazy advanced technology 58 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:31,919 Speaker 1: to blow up the city. And they're talking about people 59 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 1: fleeing burning cities and food becoming contaminated. That's great. And 60 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:37,160 Speaker 1: then you go and then you know, I'm looking at that, 61 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 1: I'm thinking, hey, let me look up the original on that, 62 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 1: because I just want to be sure since this is 63 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:45,480 Speaker 1: a crazy website. And then it's bund is green against 64 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 1: that black background. I'm like, well, let me let me 65 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:50,000 Speaker 1: research this. But and then you look down to where 66 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:53,240 Speaker 1: they site it, and they just put site the Mahaparata. 67 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:56,840 Speaker 1: The mob Haaparata is one is a one hundred thousand 68 00:03:57,000 --> 00:03:59,840 Speaker 1: verses long. See, you can't just say, oh, it's like 69 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 1: me saying God is love, dude, quote the Bible. It 70 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:06,080 Speaker 1: just doesn't, you know, give me a little specific to 71 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:08,840 Speaker 1: go on. I found somewhere they'd actually say, oh, this 72 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 1: is from the drown up Purva section of the Mahaparata. 73 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:16,360 Speaker 1: But that section in and of itself has over two 74 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 1: hundred subsections of text. So, um, the best I could find, 75 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:25,240 Speaker 1: like find just I'm on my own time when without 76 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 1: just killing days trying to track down what sources these 77 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:31,720 Speaker 1: guys may or may not be quoting from. Um, if 78 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 1: you don't mind, I'm just gonna read like a real 79 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:36,359 Speaker 1: quick bit no no, because I think again it captures 80 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:39,719 Speaker 1: your imagination is this idea, is of this ancient warfare 81 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 1: and kings and flying saucerers. Even perhaps I don't know. 82 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 1: So here's here's a little bit from section thirty four 83 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:51,480 Speaker 1: of book eight the Karna, and uh it goes a 84 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 1: little something like this, I'm gonna use the kind of 85 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:55,880 Speaker 1: the door. I'm not gonna wrap, but I'm gonna I'm 86 00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 1: gonna do a voice, you know, kind of like um. 87 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:04,480 Speaker 1: Then he called Nila Rohita, that terrible deity, robed in skins, 88 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:08,360 Speaker 1: looking like ten thousand suns enshrouded by the fire of 89 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:13,440 Speaker 1: superabundant energy, blazed up with splendor that discomforter of even 90 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:16,919 Speaker 1: him that is difficult of being discomforted. That victor, that 91 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 1: slayer of all haters of Brahma, called also Horror, the 92 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:23,839 Speaker 1: rescuer of the righteous and destroyer of the unrighteous, the 93 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 1: illustrious Fanu, accompanied by many beings of terrible might and 94 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:31,040 Speaker 1: terrible forms that were endued with the speed of the mind, 95 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 1: and capable of agitating and crushing all foes, as if 96 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 1: with all fourteen faculties of the soul awake about him, 97 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:43,839 Speaker 1: looked exceedingly resplendent. So it's yeah, so it's like lots 98 00:05:43,839 --> 00:05:46,400 Speaker 1: of that and that's that's awesome, and you can made 99 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 1: even better by your Charleton Heston like voice. By the way, 100 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 1: I could have handed up even more. But but some 101 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 1: of the some of the words are a bit uh 102 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:57,680 Speaker 1: bit out there. Yeah, the names and all. But okay, 103 00:05:57,680 --> 00:05:59,720 Speaker 1: but you know there's an example of yeah, there's all 104 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:01,600 Speaker 1: sorts of crazy stuff going on in here. There are 105 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:05,600 Speaker 1: these references to these like these different ostras, which are 106 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:09,120 Speaker 1: some people think are weapons, and then there are these jantras, 107 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 1: which people think are machines. And if you go to 108 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:16,240 Speaker 1: some of these websites, they'll even get real detailed with 109 00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 1: it and say, this is referring to a flying machine, 110 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 1: this is talking about nuclear weapons, this is talking about 111 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:23,919 Speaker 1: a TV screen or a heat ray or a holographic device, 112 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:28,600 Speaker 1: and uh, these are interpretations of this text, right yeah. 113 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:31,640 Speaker 1: And then and then to the ruins there there we 114 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:34,719 Speaker 1: do have ruins of the ancient cities of Harappa and 115 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 1: Mahineodaro and these were once give great metropolises of the 116 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:43,320 Speaker 1: Indus Valley civil civilization, some of the earliest urban centers 117 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:45,839 Speaker 1: in the world. And you know now they're gone. But 118 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:50,160 Speaker 1: you see these references talking about radio radiation in these sites, 119 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:54,560 Speaker 1: and there's just no I could not find a single source. Actually, 120 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:58,200 Speaker 1: I applaud you for for looking into it so intently, 121 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:00,479 Speaker 1: because I have to admit that when I was looking 122 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:02,680 Speaker 1: into it and I started to see some talk of 123 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:05,600 Speaker 1: anti matter, I started back away because I knew that, 124 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 1: like right around the corner, aliens were hanging out there. 125 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 1: So I was like, it is is a very intriguing thing. 126 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:13,040 Speaker 1: And I think what's so intriguing about it is because 127 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:18,840 Speaker 1: people were thinking about warfare and technology UM in a 128 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:23,960 Speaker 1: very complex way much before they could even actually put 129 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:26,679 Speaker 1: it into use. Right, We've seen this over and over again. 130 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:29,920 Speaker 1: We see we've seen this with da Vinci and drawings 131 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:34,520 Speaker 1: with all sorts of ideas of how to create stuff 132 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:36,600 Speaker 1: that he just was way too ahead of his time 133 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:40,880 Speaker 1: to put into motion. Yeah, it drives some the real 134 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 1: examples we're going to look at here, the ones that 135 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:45,280 Speaker 1: are actually that we can actually say, yes, this happened 136 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:48,680 Speaker 1: or this probably happened, and are not related to atomic 137 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 1: wars between demigods and in a primal age um. These 138 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:56,280 Speaker 1: are these are all examples of that did really show 139 00:07:56,320 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 1: how how much the human mind can accomplish even if 140 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 1: it does and have the same tools that minds have today. 141 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:04,280 Speaker 1: Like I kind of like to think of it as 142 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:07,600 Speaker 1: imagine you give one guy a sheet of paper and 143 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:10,680 Speaker 1: one guy a poster board, and then both of them 144 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 1: are artists, and you say, fill it up with some 145 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:15,400 Speaker 1: art for me, you know, give me some art and uh, 146 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 1: and if they're they both have the same amount of skill, 147 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 1: one guy is gonna be able to fill up one uh, 148 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 1: you know, sheet of papers worth of art they have. 149 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:25,440 Speaker 1: The guy's gonna fill up one poster boards worth of art. 150 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:29,239 Speaker 1: And today we can fill up more of a poster 151 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 1: board size because we have the science we were able 152 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:35,320 Speaker 1: to stand on the backs of giants. We uh, we 153 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 1: we have a much much more advanced technology to aid 154 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:40,560 Speaker 1: the human mind and developing these things. But still given 155 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:43,839 Speaker 1: the limited, um, you know, restraints of the time. Uh. 156 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 1: Some of these guys you know in the you know, 157 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:49,720 Speaker 1: for common era back but you know, in BC time, 158 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:53,960 Speaker 1: they were accomplishing amazing things with their technology and and 159 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:58,760 Speaker 1: in their understanding of the visible universe. Yeah, which became 160 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 1: a pretty nuanced understanding for for that time. In those capabilities. 161 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 1: As you mentioned, Um, I did want to talk about 162 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:07,080 Speaker 1: really quickly. A couple of things that I came across 163 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:11,360 Speaker 1: which are kind of low fi um tech. Uh, I 164 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:14,280 Speaker 1: guess you could say inventions of warfare. And this is 165 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 1: from the Christian Science Monitor. It's called articles called early 166 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:21,439 Speaker 1: weapons of mass destruction and they cite a king and 167 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:24,200 Speaker 1: Asia minor of the second century b C. Who was 168 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:28,280 Speaker 1: defeated when Hannibal quote catapulted live snakes on two ships, 169 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 1: which I thought. It's creative, right, yeah, it's the sort 170 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:35,559 Speaker 1: of warfare. It's the kind of thing you would more 171 00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:39,600 Speaker 1: expect from ancient times as opposed to dazzling weapons of light. 172 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, you see, like you know, flamethrowers, snakes. 173 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:45,280 Speaker 1: I mean, the snakes thing I do have to say 174 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:47,079 Speaker 1: kind of reminds me of Pee Wee Herman a little bit, 175 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:50,440 Speaker 1: like if he catapulted snakes. No, I mean he he uh, 176 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 1: he released some snakes of going from a pet store, 177 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:55,160 Speaker 1: but if he were to go into warfare, I'm pretty 178 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 1: sure that's how he would do it. Um. And then 179 00:09:57,160 --> 00:09:59,800 Speaker 1: there's sort of an example of early bio warfare and 180 00:09:59,840 --> 00:10:04,320 Speaker 1: the the Hittite sent plague victims into the land of 181 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 1: their enemies, and this is from the same article. They 182 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:10,680 Speaker 1: basically say in this article quote, the principle of summoning 183 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 1: plague for self defense maybe related to the reality that 184 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 1: invaders are immunologically naive and therefore more vulnerable to epidemic 185 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:24,199 Speaker 1: diseases in foreign lands than the local population. So there 186 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:30,720 Speaker 1: was some sort of understanding about disease and other cultures 187 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:34,160 Speaker 1: perhaps not having or being vulnerable to it. Yeah, you know, 188 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:38,080 Speaker 1: this is this is a bit of an extrapolation of 189 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:42,600 Speaker 1: the idea. But again there's this idea that that humans 190 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:45,200 Speaker 1: are sitting around saying, how is how can I best 191 00:10:45,559 --> 00:10:49,280 Speaker 1: my enemy? I've got snakes at my disposition, I've got 192 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:51,880 Speaker 1: a couple of plague victims. You know, what else can 193 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:54,840 Speaker 1: we do here? Yeah, it's a lot more nuanced than saying, 194 00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:57,840 Speaker 1: all right, guys, we really want to take uh these 195 00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:01,560 Speaker 1: other this other tribes the stuff. So let's go pokem 196 00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:04,200 Speaker 1: with sharp sticks. Everybody get a sharp stick. Let's go, 197 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:07,320 Speaker 1: let's do it. Yeah. Yeah, that sharp stick I di 198 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:09,400 Speaker 1: didn't work out so well last time? What else can 199 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 1: we do? Um? So this has kind of brought us 200 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:15,559 Speaker 1: to actually what we were talking about before, just these 201 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:19,840 Speaker 1: much more complex mechanisms that people began to look into 202 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:23,160 Speaker 1: to better understand the world and can navigate it. And 203 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:28,320 Speaker 1: in particular, there's something called the Islamic astrolabe. Very cool thing. Yes, 204 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 1: the astrolabe is pretty amazing. And I'm gonna I'm gonna 205 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:33,920 Speaker 1: put together, as usual, a blog post to accompany this, 206 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 1: and I'll be sure to have an image of an 207 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:40,440 Speaker 1: astrolabe because it's you've probably seen it before and uh, 208 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:43,960 Speaker 1: and you know what I'm talking about here, But but 209 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 1: you have to look at them because they're just be 210 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:48,880 Speaker 1: beautiful art um. As was common in those days. When 211 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:52,200 Speaker 1: you're creating an artifact um that's going to aid you 212 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 1: in anything, you're also going to g's you know, it's 213 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:57,080 Speaker 1: like illuminated manuscripts. It's descightful, but let's make it beautiful 214 00:11:57,080 --> 00:11:59,280 Speaker 1: as well. And it's the same. I was trying to 215 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:01,920 Speaker 1: think about how to best describe it, and it's obviously 216 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:05,200 Speaker 1: it's this disk that has these different inlays on it, 217 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:08,120 Speaker 1: and with inlay a sort of like carvings too, and 218 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:13,320 Speaker 1: all sorts of um information and symbols on it and 219 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:16,440 Speaker 1: so on and so forth. But it reminds me of 220 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 1: something that like that you would create now as a 221 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 1: steampunk piece. Of jewelry. Yeah, it does have that kind 222 00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:23,800 Speaker 1: of look to it. It's basically it's a small circular 223 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 1: device usually made of wood or brass, sometimes paper, um 224 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:34,439 Speaker 1: varying degrees of like we said, artistic embellishment. And essentially 225 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:36,240 Speaker 1: it's a model of the stars in the sky and 226 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 1: you can move them to show where the stars would 227 00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:40,200 Speaker 1: be at any time in the year. And then you 228 00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:42,600 Speaker 1: flip it over and you and there's like a gear 229 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:45,559 Speaker 1: and you can in this site concerns the sun and 230 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:51,000 Speaker 1: the moon, and it's uh, the basic idea. The concepts 231 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:56,320 Speaker 1: originate around three b C. And the the Arabs of 232 00:12:56,360 --> 00:12:59,000 Speaker 1: the ninth century were the ones to perfect it. And 233 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:01,000 Speaker 1: and this is what's crazy. After they perfected it in 234 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:03,960 Speaker 1: the ninth century, it was the basic astronomer's tool for 235 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:07,240 Speaker 1: the next seven hundred years. That's how much staying power 236 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:11,080 Speaker 1: this device goes. Nowadays, my my iPad or my my 237 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:14,160 Speaker 1: pod or iPhone or any kind of technological device I have, 238 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:16,160 Speaker 1: it has like what a shelf life of of maybe 239 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:20,120 Speaker 1: a year before a new version comes along. And granted 240 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:21,440 Speaker 1: they were you know, and a lot of this time 241 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 1: they were adding little features apps, if you will, to 242 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:28,040 Speaker 1: the astro labor astrolabe and uh, but but still the 243 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:31,840 Speaker 1: basic concept was just held strong, right, And we should 244 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:35,359 Speaker 1: probably mention too that it's the design and the execution 245 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:38,480 Speaker 1: of the design is credited with Appollonius and two fifty BC, 246 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:41,200 Speaker 1: So that'll just kind of ground everybody. And and what 247 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:43,840 Speaker 1: we're talking about here in this timeline, and again you 248 00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:47,120 Speaker 1: talked about the actual idea of it being around around 249 00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:51,600 Speaker 1: three and that, yeah, and that's that's because people had 250 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 1: to hold on a concept called stereographic projection, which is 251 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 1: used in this device. Um. The ironic thing to me 252 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:01,240 Speaker 1: about this is that, yes, this app that if you 253 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:03,000 Speaker 1: know how to use it, you've got like thousand different 254 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:06,720 Speaker 1: choices on different data that you can access. But if 255 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:09,520 Speaker 1: you were to put it and you are its hands today, 256 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:11,320 Speaker 1: it would be like putting up in nana our hands 257 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:12,800 Speaker 1: and being like, hey, you used just to find out 258 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:14,719 Speaker 1: what time it is? Yeah, we'd have we'd just be like, oh, 259 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:18,200 Speaker 1: this is pretty Yeah, it would it would be as 260 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:21,680 Speaker 1: lost in our hands as my iPhone would be in 261 00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:24,520 Speaker 1: the hands of somebody from well, probably we would be 262 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:26,480 Speaker 1: more lost because I think that I would just say 263 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:28,720 Speaker 1: it's so intuitive. I think they'd start doing you know, 264 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:31,680 Speaker 1: oh the screen moves, okay, and then that individual would 265 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:34,440 Speaker 1: rule the world inside a week with that. With that, well, 266 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:36,080 Speaker 1: now we probably wouldn't be able to get three g 267 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 1: if you travel back. And it's true, but but no, 268 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:41,520 Speaker 1: an astrolabe can let you tell the day and time, 269 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 1: calculate distances determined prayer times. Uh. You know this is 270 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:49,000 Speaker 1: especially drawing to its uh, its origins in in the 271 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:51,320 Speaker 1: Middle East, and it's perfection in the Middle East is 272 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 1: that people U Muslims were able to use this to 273 00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:58,760 Speaker 1: make sure they knew what times they needed to pray. Likewise, 274 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:01,040 Speaker 1: it could be used to determine the direction of Mecca, 275 00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:04,120 Speaker 1: so you know which direction to pray, and can determine 276 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:08,720 Speaker 1: building heights, can be used in surveying longitude, latitude, altitude, horoscopes, 277 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:12,840 Speaker 1: um position of the planets, various occult usages that are 278 00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:16,800 Speaker 1: tied in with with the position of the heavens. Well, 279 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:19,800 Speaker 1: and there's the astrological events that correspond to the Islamic 280 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:22,840 Speaker 1: faith too, right, So um, that was important for them 281 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:24,600 Speaker 1: to know as well. Yeah, so I mean it was. 282 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:26,920 Speaker 1: I mean for a long time, if you were a 283 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:31,360 Speaker 1: learned individual, uh, you probably had an astrolabe Yeah. And 284 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:33,240 Speaker 1: this is the cool thing too about this is that 285 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 1: Islamic astronomists they really did work on this for centuries 286 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:40,440 Speaker 1: and centuries, as you say, perfecting it. Uh. And this 287 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:42,360 Speaker 1: is not something that we've seen in the past with 288 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:45,720 Speaker 1: other mechanisms or technology that you know, a group of 289 00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:50,000 Speaker 1: people would um or a faith even would work on 290 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:52,880 Speaker 1: something so diligently to try to make it the best 291 00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:55,479 Speaker 1: that it could be. Usually what happens is that technology 292 00:15:55,560 --> 00:15:57,880 Speaker 1: is created and then someone somewhere over on the other 293 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:00,720 Speaker 1: side of the world, you know, reinvents the wheel um 294 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:03,440 Speaker 1: or you know, the technology itself may fall away or 295 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 1: become distorted, but yes, you know, these scholars kept it 296 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:11,920 Speaker 1: um alive for so many years that by the time 297 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:15,080 Speaker 1: that it became used in the Age of Discovery, it 298 00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:17,760 Speaker 1: was just sort of poised to actually usher in the 299 00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:20,920 Speaker 1: Age of discovery, right because all of a sudden, we 300 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:25,240 Speaker 1: have this, this incredible instrument that you could navigate with, 301 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:28,680 Speaker 1: and that just kind of opened up the whole world, right. Yeah, 302 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 1: I mean I was looking through um. One of James 303 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:35,280 Speaker 1: Brooke's books, i think was Connections, talking about the way 304 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:40,160 Speaker 1: different inventions sort of timeline to each other and the 305 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:41,880 Speaker 1: astrolabe is one of these like you look it up 306 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:43,680 Speaker 1: in the index and it shows up just dozens of 307 00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:47,160 Speaker 1: times because it was it's an important step in our technological, 308 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:49,840 Speaker 1: uh and its scientific evolution. Yeah, I mean, I think 309 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:51,600 Speaker 1: it's fair to say that if it wasn't the place 310 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:53,680 Speaker 1: that it was at the time, then the just discovery 311 00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:55,880 Speaker 1: would not have happened. We'd be living in a very 312 00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:59,640 Speaker 1: different world most likely. Well, hey, we're gonna take a 313 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:01,400 Speaker 1: quick right here, and when we come back, we're going 314 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:09,960 Speaker 1: to talk about a little something called the Antiquathera mechanism. 315 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:12,919 Speaker 1: This presentation is brought to you by Intel Sponsors of 316 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:20,879 Speaker 1: tomorrow and we're back the So the Antiqathera mechanism. I 317 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:23,040 Speaker 1: did want to mention something really quickly, is this is 318 00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:26,720 Speaker 1: just one of those like cool fact things about the astrolabe. 319 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:30,280 Speaker 1: The first technical manual on it. Oh yes, yes, it 320 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:33,720 Speaker 1: was actually written by Jeffrey Chaucer for his eleven year 321 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:38,480 Speaker 1: old son so he could understand how it worked. Great writer, 322 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:40,880 Speaker 1: one of the greatest writers of all time, as technical 323 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:43,960 Speaker 1: manual for a device, possibly the first code monkey. Maybe, 324 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:45,320 Speaker 1: I don't know, it's kind of like her kind of 325 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:47,879 Speaker 1: a loose use of the term. But that's like kind 326 00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:50,760 Speaker 1: of like how stuff works own Tracy V. Wilson, she 327 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:54,280 Speaker 1: used to do technical technical manuals. I think, yes, that's 328 00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:56,320 Speaker 1: what I've heard anyway. And I'm pretty sure that she 329 00:17:56,359 --> 00:17:58,840 Speaker 1: has an astro lebe Oh yeah, yeah, oh yeah, I've 330 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:00,440 Speaker 1: seen her. I've seen her on Marta pull it out 331 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:03,680 Speaker 1: and yeah, yeah, train is running late again. That was 332 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:05,840 Speaker 1: before she got the she upgraded to an iPhone, but 333 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:12,919 Speaker 1: now she's in the fold. So um, let's look at 334 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:16,240 Speaker 1: this anti Cathera mechanism. Now, this you may recognize from 335 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:18,320 Speaker 1: if you've seen images of it. It kind of looks 336 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:24,080 Speaker 1: like a rusted gear, kind of green looking gear embedded 337 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:26,640 Speaker 1: in a big lump of stone. Yeah, and I love 338 00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:32,440 Speaker 1: the idea that these divers found it, right yeah. Yeah, 339 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:35,560 Speaker 1: they're um sponge divers and they spotted it, and you 340 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:38,600 Speaker 1: think that there it was probably covered in barnacles. Yeah, 341 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:40,679 Speaker 1: and they're probably like, what is this hunk of junks 342 00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:42,840 Speaker 1: sitting here at the bottom of the sea. Like I 343 00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:44,920 Speaker 1: wouldn't have thought to pick it up and bring it 344 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:46,680 Speaker 1: with me. If I saw on somebody's garden, I might 345 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:48,359 Speaker 1: be like, Oh, that's that's the neat use of an 346 00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:50,720 Speaker 1: old gear looking rock, but I wouldn't have thought it 347 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:52,720 Speaker 1: was amazing. Yeah, all that I was thinking about in 348 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:55,159 Speaker 1: the context of that period of time where there was 349 00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:58,480 Speaker 1: so much archaeological discovery that I'm sure that divers all 350 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:01,119 Speaker 1: the time we're probably looking for ship breckx um. And 351 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:03,040 Speaker 1: this was in fact part of a shipwreck that was 352 00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:07,520 Speaker 1: off the island of Anti Cathera so so named for 353 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:11,200 Speaker 1: that island. Yeah, and it it turns out, as best 354 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:14,160 Speaker 1: we can, we can understand it. It was very much 355 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:17,480 Speaker 1: like the astrolabe, and it was an astronomical device representing 356 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 1: the movements of the heavens, which to the ancient Greeks 357 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:24,159 Speaker 1: was five planets, because that's all they knew of. Again, 358 00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:28,040 Speaker 1: think to that, you know, the whole paper versus poster 359 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:30,600 Speaker 1: board painting. You know, they were working within the limits 360 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:35,040 Speaker 1: of their their understanding. But but it had a really alarmingly, 361 00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:39,439 Speaker 1: you know, complete understanding of it. Um studies of the 362 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:41,399 Speaker 1: wreck and the cargo it carries it up to the 363 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:43,800 Speaker 1: ships that sailing around sixty five b C. And it 364 00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:46,439 Speaker 1: was heading west from Asia Minor. It was a Roman 365 00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:49,440 Speaker 1: ship and it was carrying Greek loot back to Rome. 366 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:51,920 Speaker 1: I love it the rogue part of it, right, Yeah, 367 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:54,640 Speaker 1: almost like it was cursed, like you know, they took 368 00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:57,919 Speaker 1: it and then the vessel. But um, there's no evidence 369 00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:00,920 Speaker 1: for them. Just fun to think about. Yeah, though it 370 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:04,399 Speaker 1: did uh you know, it did have Greek inscriptions on it, 371 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:07,320 Speaker 1: which is another key, you know, way that we're able 372 00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:10,240 Speaker 1: to to try and understand what it was. And these 373 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:13,639 Speaker 1: inscriptions the device dated back you know, U two around 374 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:17,000 Speaker 1: one hundred BC, and it suggests that it was already 375 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:19,640 Speaker 1: a few decades old when the ship sank. So now 376 00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:21,199 Speaker 1: it seems more likely that it was actually made in 377 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:24,000 Speaker 1: Syracuse and then then it was taken east to show 378 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:28,760 Speaker 1: off to the scholars at Rhodes. So what we're now 379 00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:32,720 Speaker 1: where Syracuse gets interesting is that Syracuse was the hometown 380 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:42,679 Speaker 1: of Archimedes, the the ancient mad genius mathematician, and now 381 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:45,880 Speaker 1: he lived He lived a century before this mechanism was made, 382 00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:47,880 Speaker 1: so there's no way he could have made it. Uh, 383 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:50,119 Speaker 1: he couldn't have created it, but he pioneered the use 384 00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:53,680 Speaker 1: of gear wheels to achieve different force ratios with weights 385 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:57,560 Speaker 1: things like that. So um, based you know, based on 386 00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:01,080 Speaker 1: what we know, Um, it's it seems he a lot 387 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:04,280 Speaker 1: of his ideas may have wound up in this device. Yeah. Yeah, 388 00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:07,480 Speaker 1: it's very likely that that he may be even held 389 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:12,479 Speaker 1: onto one himself, m giving given his sort of penchant 390 00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:16,480 Speaker 1: for stuff and gears and um, I guess you could 391 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:19,920 Speaker 1: say that he was a gear head of yesteryear. Yeah. 392 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:22,920 Speaker 1: This is from the Anti Cathera mechanism research project. Is 393 00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 1: a question that says, does does the mechanism favor a 394 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:30,199 Speaker 1: heliocentric or a geocentric universe? So is the Sun at 395 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:33,119 Speaker 1: the center of the university depicts or is the Earth 396 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:35,399 Speaker 1: at the center of the university depicts? Yeah, which is 397 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:37,480 Speaker 1: a really interesting question. You and I have talked about 398 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:41,240 Speaker 1: this both wrong but right. But still they represent a 399 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:44,879 Speaker 1: drastic change in our thinking about the cosmos. Yeah, and 400 00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:46,439 Speaker 1: this gives us a little bit of a clue to 401 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:50,120 Speaker 1: of how well they understood the world. And uh So, 402 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:54,920 Speaker 1: the the answer um from this organization is, in a word, neither. 403 00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:57,600 Speaker 1: The purpose of the mechanism is clearly to position heavenly 404 00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:01,280 Speaker 1: bodies with respect to the celestial sphere with reference to 405 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:03,200 Speaker 1: the observer's position on the surface of the Earth. In 406 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:05,560 Speaker 1: order to achieve this, this mechanism has to use a 407 00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:08,800 Speaker 1: geocentric model However, this does not imply that the manufacturer 408 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:11,560 Speaker 1: favored a geocentric model the universe. In fact, it was 409 00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:18,000 Speaker 1: Aristarchos of Samos around who first proposed a heliocentric solar 410 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:22,960 Speaker 1: system in two Unfortunately, proponents of the helocentric universe were 411 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:26,000 Speaker 1: increasingly persecuted for the beliefs in ancient Greece and in 412 00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:29,040 Speaker 1: later times. It is highly probable that the maker of 413 00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:31,760 Speaker 1: the mechanism was aware of the heliocentric universe, but it 414 00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:34,239 Speaker 1: does not imply he favored it. So I think it's 415 00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:36,760 Speaker 1: really just interesting to know that maybe they were politics 416 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:39,159 Speaker 1: going on at that time, that if you were creating 417 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:44,159 Speaker 1: this instrument, that you might not necessarily talk about what 418 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:47,160 Speaker 1: the implications of it might be in terms of understanding 419 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:52,000 Speaker 1: the world or even understanding religion or society with this mechanism. Um. 420 00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:55,720 Speaker 1: Of course we've talked about then in another podcasts uh, 421 00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:59,600 Speaker 1: in much more detail. But we should probably get to arguments, 422 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:03,160 Speaker 1: because again, this guy mad genius. I mean, I feel 423 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:06,600 Speaker 1: like he's the Byron of his time. Yeah, minus the 424 00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:11,160 Speaker 1: pet bear and the skull full of wine? Right, yes? Yeah? 425 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:15,080 Speaker 1: Or is it the moose? You know? I got confused 426 00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:19,440 Speaker 1: with ta Yeah, yeah, right, yeah, yeah, I get drunk 427 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:25,399 Speaker 1: animals people like at those confused. But this guy, he 428 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:30,400 Speaker 1: had something called death ray. Yes, Now did you ever 429 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:32,399 Speaker 1: have it or do you just have the plans for it? Well, 430 00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:35,240 Speaker 1: we all have plans for death rays. This is in debate, 431 00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:38,119 Speaker 1: right right, right, he had his drawings, We know that 432 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:41,199 Speaker 1: for sure, but we think that it's it's let's just 433 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:44,399 Speaker 1: say that it's up for debate, but it's highly probable. 434 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:48,320 Speaker 1: And um, this is from Josh Clark's article what was 435 00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:51,879 Speaker 1: our Committee's Death Ray? Basically, it's a series of mirrors 436 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:56,520 Speaker 1: that reflected sunlight onto Roman enemy ships that were moored 437 00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:59,960 Speaker 1: in the Arc Committee's hometime of Syracuse. The ships were 438 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:03,119 Speaker 1: earned by the collective condensed sunlight and cause the entire 439 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:06,080 Speaker 1: fleet to catch fire. So this was the idea. So 440 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:08,280 Speaker 1: this guy is sitting around thinking, okay, we're about to 441 00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:10,760 Speaker 1: be attacked. What it was my what sort of tools 442 00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:14,479 Speaker 1: do I have laying around here? The sun? Um? And 443 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:19,880 Speaker 1: this is someone again who when you go back to uh, creativity, 444 00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:24,520 Speaker 1: humans and and trying to figure out a better way 445 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:29,480 Speaker 1: to well, in this case, exact revenge. But that that's 446 00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:33,119 Speaker 1: what happens throughout our history of science. Yeah, It's true. 447 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:35,199 Speaker 1: It's true. Um. I mean this guy was thinking about it, 448 00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:36,760 Speaker 1: you know he was. He was sitting at home in 449 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:39,080 Speaker 1: his hammock if he had a hammock. Um, I thinking 450 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:42,240 Speaker 1: how can I utilize the Sun's energy best? Which is 451 00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:44,480 Speaker 1: pretty amazing for this time period. Right we're talking about 452 00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:47,680 Speaker 1: eight MNBC. Yeah, we're talking about just you know, thinking 453 00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:52,400 Speaker 1: about advanced usage of optics and mirrors and uh yeah. 454 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:55,520 Speaker 1: What I like best from this article is the quote 455 00:24:55,640 --> 00:25:00,639 Speaker 1: that is ascribed to him to Arcumentives, which is, and 456 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:03,960 Speaker 1: I'll try my best with Charlton husband. Here, give me 457 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:06,639 Speaker 1: a lover long enough in a place to stand, and 458 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:10,399 Speaker 1: I will move the world. Okay that got n at 459 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:13,480 Speaker 1: the end, Yeah it did. But I love that this 460 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:17,560 Speaker 1: is a guy who was again just no holds barred. Yeah, 461 00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 1: it's like, hey, you get something for me to do, 462 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:21,400 Speaker 1: you know. I mean that's the way. He was technically 463 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:24,080 Speaker 1: a freelancer, you know, so you've got to when you're 464 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:26,640 Speaker 1: in a freelancing situation, you gotta put yourself out there 465 00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:29,080 Speaker 1: like that. You you know, you're like, what, you need 466 00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:30,960 Speaker 1: me to write an article about this? Yeah, give me 467 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:33,320 Speaker 1: a pen. I can write it. You know what I 468 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:35,080 Speaker 1: like givebot. This guy t is that he just did 469 00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:39,760 Speaker 1: not like go gently into and you know, into the world. There. 470 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:41,679 Speaker 1: I mean, at the end of his life at seventy 471 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:43,840 Speaker 1: five years old, a Roman soldier came to get him 472 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,280 Speaker 1: and he was giving a calculation and he was he 473 00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:49,360 Speaker 1: was basically saying, step off, I'm in the middle of something. Yeah. 474 00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:51,960 Speaker 1: It was completely ignoring the fact that this guy was 475 00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:55,560 Speaker 1: his doom and uh you know, and so he died 476 00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:59,200 Speaker 1: doing math. I can imagine being like carry the one 477 00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:03,880 Speaker 1: and then hey, I almost had it. Yeah, this dangerous 478 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:09,760 Speaker 1: work math. Yeah. So that leads us to another interesting 479 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:14,160 Speaker 1: possible past technology, if not an actual technology, then again 480 00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:17,920 Speaker 1: people thinking about the technology, and that is robots. Yes, 481 00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:19,840 Speaker 1: I know when people are gonna be like, no, really, 482 00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:22,280 Speaker 1: you guys found a way to go back to robots. Yeah, 483 00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:24,600 Speaker 1: yeah we did. Yeah, but these are different robots and 484 00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:26,920 Speaker 1: these are not This isn't you know, as much joke. 485 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:28,800 Speaker 1: Can we make a robot that can lie to people? 486 00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:30,320 Speaker 1: Or can we make a robot that can fall in 487 00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:33,479 Speaker 1: love with people? I mean these were these were you know, 488 00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:36,639 Speaker 1: back to like the thirteenth century, even guys looking at 489 00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:39,200 Speaker 1: the human form and saying, well, you know, the human 490 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:42,880 Speaker 1: body is basically a machine, and I'm pretty good with machines. Um, 491 00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:44,879 Speaker 1: I'm gonna take you go a building one, see what happens, 492 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:48,040 Speaker 1: you know, Yeah, what their idea of a machine could be. 493 00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:50,400 Speaker 1: Or even if you were trying to replicate a human 494 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:52,199 Speaker 1: at that time. So we're talking about a lot of 495 00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:56,840 Speaker 1: wood here and screws, um, and these stories are there. 496 00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:58,479 Speaker 1: The kind of things were like if you were making 497 00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:01,879 Speaker 1: a even if you're just making basically a mannequin with 498 00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:06,000 Speaker 1: with moving parts, Uh, that would be kind of outrageous. 499 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:08,280 Speaker 1: And that's gonna cause stories. If I did that, people 500 00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:10,080 Speaker 1: would say, I don't know what he's doing. He's he's 501 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:12,719 Speaker 1: got a mannequin in his house and it it moves. 502 00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:16,360 Speaker 1: There's something fishy going on. So even more real, girl, 503 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:19,840 Speaker 1: and you've got like this wooden mechanical, life size thing 504 00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:22,480 Speaker 1: next to Yeah, people are gonna talk. So our stories 505 00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:26,240 Speaker 1: of these are often a little elaborated. Um Like, for instance, 506 00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:30,280 Speaker 1: there's a thirteenth century Albertus magnus Um, you know, great 507 00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:34,200 Speaker 1: thinker um later candonized by the church. Um. But he 508 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:38,359 Speaker 1: was he worked on this automaton uh that he supposedly 509 00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:42,240 Speaker 1: had given quote the powers of speech and thought. Um 510 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:44,560 Speaker 1: it was. It was said to be composed of metals 511 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:48,719 Speaker 1: and unknown substances chosen according to the stars, and uh 512 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:52,160 Speaker 1: endowed with the spiritual qualities of magical formulas and so forth. 513 00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:54,680 Speaker 1: I mean, this is a time of alchemy, um and 514 00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:59,160 Speaker 1: a which in in in some ways was a crude 515 00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:02,320 Speaker 1: science and was sort of science mixed in with a 516 00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:06,760 Speaker 1: little um magic and and and folk ideas. It was 517 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:08,800 Speaker 1: just kind of unformed. It's kind of like sciences in 518 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:12,199 Speaker 1: the oven cooking. It's a pie, but if you were 519 00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:14,000 Speaker 1: to take it out and eat it as alchemy, it 520 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:16,439 Speaker 1: would be a bit gut shot and running, like you 521 00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:18,320 Speaker 1: still needed a little while to actually cook before it 522 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:21,760 Speaker 1: became early science. Yeah, I think if it is like 523 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:25,000 Speaker 1: the the wood chips in your backyard, they're supposed to 524 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:28,199 Speaker 1: become strawberries in that pie. They never became strawberries. It 525 00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:30,439 Speaker 1: was a wood chip pie. Yeah. And that that's the 526 00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:32,600 Speaker 1: problem with alchemy, right. It was a great idea, but 527 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:36,480 Speaker 1: not based in anything actually scientific. Yeah. So supposedly this 528 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:40,000 Speaker 1: thing could walk, it could speak, it could perform domestic chores. 529 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:43,120 Speaker 1: Now this we're just gonna go ahead and cast away 530 00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:45,440 Speaker 1: the idea that this thing was walking around like a human. 531 00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:47,920 Speaker 1: But it's easy to imagine this guy that was interested 532 00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:50,800 Speaker 1: in the way the human body works creating something that 533 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:53,600 Speaker 1: that could move when you pulled on some pulleys or something. 534 00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:58,120 Speaker 1: Or supposedly there was like a like a brass head 535 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:00,720 Speaker 1: that could speak, you know, So I mean it could 536 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:02,840 Speaker 1: have basically been a puppet he and he may may 537 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:04,360 Speaker 1: have had a sense of humor. You know, it's like, hey, 538 00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:06,760 Speaker 1: look at the press head talk and it's freaking out. 539 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:08,680 Speaker 1: But well see that, I'm thinking all Magnus was sitting 540 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:12,360 Speaker 1: there doing some ventriloquism maybe, but it worked on his disciple, 541 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:18,240 Speaker 1: Thomas Aquinas, because he allegedly decided that the device was 542 00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:21,360 Speaker 1: diabolical and destroyed it with a hammer. That's because he 543 00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:23,600 Speaker 1: just got annoyed with ventriloquism. Yeah, that could have been 544 00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:26,840 Speaker 1: he was just he was tired of it. So there's 545 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:28,480 Speaker 1: that story. Like I said, there's not a lot to 546 00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:30,720 Speaker 1: go on there, but it's it's one that I love 547 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:33,840 Speaker 1: to think about. Um And then in the fifteenth century, 548 00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:36,000 Speaker 1: of course, Leonardo da Vinci, right, yeah, yeah, we have 549 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:38,640 Speaker 1: a great article that's called Top ten Leonardo da Vinci 550 00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:43,240 Speaker 1: Inventions UM by Christopher Lampton, and he actually wrote about 551 00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:46,560 Speaker 1: da Vinci built actually built this, because most of the 552 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:49,440 Speaker 1: times he would just create plans for your drawings. But 553 00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:53,120 Speaker 1: he had a plan for a robotic night that was 554 00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:58,640 Speaker 1: based on his working knowledge of anatomy and mechanics. And um, 555 00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:02,120 Speaker 1: he built it right, this life size night and it 556 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:06,000 Speaker 1: uh it did not survive, unfortunately, and no one is 557 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:08,640 Speaker 1: exactly sure of what it was capable of doing. But 558 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:11,360 Speaker 1: apparently it could walk, sit down, and it could even 559 00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:14,800 Speaker 1: work its jaw. So again we're seeing the ventriloquism here. Um. 560 00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:20,200 Speaker 1: It was frequently brought out at parties thrown wealthy Leonardo Patron, 561 00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:24,520 Speaker 1: load up, you take it, viz. Yeah, you're better with 562 00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:27,600 Speaker 1: the Italian I think so. Yeah, it's probably awful, but 563 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:30,040 Speaker 1: better than mind. But anyway, the mere fact that the 564 00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:34,000 Speaker 1: robot is making appearances at drunken parties. Uh so I 565 00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:37,240 Speaker 1: think into the idea that that it it wasn't actually 566 00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:40,560 Speaker 1: a you know, too elaborator a thing, that it was 567 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:42,840 Speaker 1: that it had a certain comic element to it, that 568 00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:45,920 Speaker 1: it was maybe kind of a big puppet. I'm seeing 569 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:49,360 Speaker 1: some sort of thread here with becoming an icon, right, 570 00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:51,600 Speaker 1: if you're going to be Tico bra Hay or Da 571 00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:54,040 Speaker 1: Vinci or you're going to be Byron. You've got to 572 00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:57,840 Speaker 1: have something that you roll out at parties that involved drinking, right, 573 00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:01,200 Speaker 1: And I mean it's a moose or a drunk dog, 574 00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:09,840 Speaker 1: a bear bear and then your robotic night Yeah yeah, yeah, 575 00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:12,000 Speaker 1: you know you had to had to stay kind of crazy, 576 00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:14,080 Speaker 1: kind of dangerous. Yeah. So I mean, just I'm just 577 00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:17,520 Speaker 1: noting that for anybody he wants who's going for icon status, yea, 578 00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:19,920 Speaker 1: that's something that you probably want to work into your stick. 579 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:21,720 Speaker 1: But um, but yeah, I mean this is still a 580 00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:25,000 Speaker 1: really cool thing. And it was used or driven by 581 00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:27,960 Speaker 1: a system of pulleys and gears, so back in the 582 00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:31,520 Speaker 1: damn sure that it was absolutely shocking. Yeah. And then 583 00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:34,120 Speaker 1: in the seventeenth century here's a there's another notice when 584 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:35,680 Speaker 1: there's not a lot to really go on here, But 585 00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:38,520 Speaker 1: I still find it amusing. Uh. There was the notion 586 00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:41,920 Speaker 1: that French philosopher and at Cards so allegedly had I 587 00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:45,040 Speaker 1: should probably say allegedly allegedly like use it twice just 588 00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:48,760 Speaker 1: to drive home, had a beautiful automaton named Francine which 589 00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:50,760 Speaker 1: he built to replaces de cease daughter, and he would 590 00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:54,720 Speaker 1: take on when he had to sail somewhere. Um, he 591 00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:58,200 Speaker 1: would have the the the androids stored in a crate 592 00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:01,920 Speaker 1: under under deck. But many things wrong with that, Yeah, 593 00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:03,680 Speaker 1: they're just there are a lot of things wrong, especially 594 00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:06,920 Speaker 1: the felidity of it. Um. I don't think there's anything 595 00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:12,240 Speaker 1: to it. But according to Alison Murray in her book 596 00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:15,720 Speaker 1: The Enlightenment Cyborgs, she makes the case that this was 597 00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:18,600 Speaker 1: a time where and you see roots of this with 598 00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:21,960 Speaker 1: da Vinci and Magnus, We're we're learning more and more 599 00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:25,160 Speaker 1: that the human body and many um in many ways 600 00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:28,120 Speaker 1: is a machine. We're coming to grips with the mechanical 601 00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:31,000 Speaker 1: nature of humanity, and it it leads to this kind 602 00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:34,120 Speaker 1: of weird identity crisis of what are we? You know, 603 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:36,680 Speaker 1: we're not this well, you know, we're not quite this 604 00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:42,040 Speaker 1: magical divine creation where something else and we're not even this, 605 00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:44,600 Speaker 1: you know, spark of life and meat were some sort 606 00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:47,880 Speaker 1: of some sort of machine and we're so it leads 607 00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:49,880 Speaker 1: to questions like, well, then can we make a machine? 608 00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:52,080 Speaker 1: And it's and to a certain extent, we're still we're 609 00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:55,360 Speaker 1: still troubling over that today, except in in fields such 610 00:32:55,400 --> 00:33:00,040 Speaker 1: as genetics and and and other related films and to 611 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:03,120 Speaker 1: start to a larg extent still in robotics. Yeah, I 612 00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:07,040 Speaker 1: mean actually robotics, um, as you say, in biology and 613 00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:09,920 Speaker 1: neo evolution, this is a big topic that's coming up, 614 00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:13,320 Speaker 1: right and how we can or can we actually use 615 00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:17,680 Speaker 1: the question influence our evolution? Um, should we, should we stop? 616 00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:21,480 Speaker 1: So on and so forth, and um, I don't know, 617 00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:24,080 Speaker 1: it's all, it's just all a very fascinating question. And well, 618 00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:26,360 Speaker 1: also the Blue Brain project, right, we've talked about this 619 00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:29,360 Speaker 1: before about there are people who are trying to reverse 620 00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:31,640 Speaker 1: engineer the human brain so we can actually put a 621 00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:34,920 Speaker 1: blue print together. So you're saying all these different things converge. 622 00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:37,360 Speaker 1: So actually, it's what's really interesting about this is that 623 00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:40,480 Speaker 1: there is a thread between the you know, ancient technology 624 00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:44,480 Speaker 1: and future technology. And you look at robotics expert Mark Rusham, 625 00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:46,960 Speaker 1: who used da Vinci's notes to build a working model 626 00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:49,560 Speaker 1: of a Da Vinci robotic night and then some of 627 00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:54,280 Speaker 1: those concepts were actually used for design a planetary exploratory 628 00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:59,120 Speaker 1: robots by NASA. So you see that blueprint back in 629 00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:01,840 Speaker 1: time being used the well, because these guys were basically 630 00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:04,880 Speaker 1: trying to do what roboticists today continue to try and 631 00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:08,160 Speaker 1: do um or some roboticists working on how do you 632 00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:11,000 Speaker 1: make a machine that moves like a person? Um, And 633 00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:12,799 Speaker 1: part of you know, there's a little bit of human 634 00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:14,560 Speaker 1: vanity is still tied up and there can I make 635 00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:17,040 Speaker 1: the thing that I am. But also as we try 636 00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:20,239 Speaker 1: to make robots that can navigate a human environment and 637 00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:23,480 Speaker 1: and live alongside humans, it becomes, you know, ideal to 638 00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:27,279 Speaker 1: have a machine that moves like us and can manipulate 639 00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:29,799 Speaker 1: the same objects that we manipulate, so that you know 640 00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:31,719 Speaker 1: that a human can use the same screwdriver as a 641 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:35,600 Speaker 1: robot and vice versa. Yeah, it's the Geppetto conundrum, what 642 00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:40,919 Speaker 1: I'm gonna call it? And uh yeah, so let's see, 643 00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:43,080 Speaker 1: I don't I guess we're beginning to run out of 644 00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:44,600 Speaker 1: time of bit in this I wanted to touch real 645 00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:47,600 Speaker 1: quick on the idea of ancient mathematics. UM. I have 646 00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:49,200 Speaker 1: a blog post about this that I did a while 647 00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:52,000 Speaker 1: I'm back that I'll probably linked to in the accompanying 648 00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:56,279 Speaker 1: blog post for this podcast. There's a really good neat 649 00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:58,239 Speaker 1: idea that was put forth by Mark A. Peterson in 650 00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:01,960 Speaker 1: the Geometry of Paradise and uh. He points out that 651 00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:07,160 Speaker 1: that Dante um Uh fourteenth century author of Inferno. You 652 00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:09,600 Speaker 1: know the Divine Comedy, Um, there's a lot if you 653 00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:11,719 Speaker 1: ever read the Divine Comedy, there's there's a lot of 654 00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:14,000 Speaker 1: math thrown there, a lot of science. Like Dante was 655 00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:17,360 Speaker 1: interested in everything, and you see him throwing math and 656 00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:22,720 Speaker 1: science into his imagining of this, uh, these different afterworlds. 657 00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:26,279 Speaker 1: And so Peterson points out that Dante could have easily 658 00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:28,839 Speaker 1: excelled as a mathematician had he been born into a 659 00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:31,879 Speaker 1: time when geometry was more fashionable, but instead he lived 660 00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:35,240 Speaker 1: in an age of languishing mathematics between the Hellenistic period 661 00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:37,719 Speaker 1: in the seventeenth century. So here's a quick quote he's 662 00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:41,360 Speaker 1: Peterson says, medieval cultures were in the particular peculiar condition 663 00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:46,399 Speaker 1: of being being unmathematical cultures in possession of sophisticated mathematics. 664 00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:49,680 Speaker 1: They possessed in it the sense of having the books, 665 00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:53,280 Speaker 1: studying them and translating him and even doing some mathematics, 666 00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:56,520 Speaker 1: but they had no clear indication where this rich subject 667 00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:59,200 Speaker 1: had come from or what it would be good for. 668 00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:01,719 Speaker 1: They did not know, in our terms at least, what 669 00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:04,279 Speaker 1: it was. So I go into that a bit more 670 00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:06,080 Speaker 1: of the block post. But but I love the idea, 671 00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:09,880 Speaker 1: you know, because I think that's what's what's fascinating about 672 00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:12,759 Speaker 1: about concepts such as the crazy idea that there was 673 00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:15,560 Speaker 1: a vedic nuclear war and then then they had this 674 00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:17,840 Speaker 1: advanced technology in the old days. Is the idea that 675 00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:19,880 Speaker 1: we could forget it. It's the reason we love the 676 00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:22,920 Speaker 1: idea of of a post apocalyptic scenarios where we have 677 00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:28,480 Speaker 1: to re understand past technologies. Um the idea that that 678 00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:30,600 Speaker 1: that math would had kind of been forgotten for a while, 679 00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:32,480 Speaker 1: and then it was this thing that you know, it 680 00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:36,000 Speaker 1: was like us picking up a an astrolabe and saying, 681 00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:37,480 Speaker 1: what is it? How does it work? I don't know, 682 00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:39,239 Speaker 1: it's pretty let's put it up there on the on 683 00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:41,799 Speaker 1: the wall. Yeah. And and the fact that we're going 684 00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:45,320 Speaker 1: through a similar period just because we have such advanced 685 00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:49,600 Speaker 1: technology that we no longer need the basic fundamentals I'm 686 00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:51,520 Speaker 1: wanting to say fundamentals. I mean, it's some of the 687 00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:55,560 Speaker 1: more complex um aspects of math we just don't need 688 00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:58,520 Speaker 1: to master anymore because we simplified our existence. Yeah, I 689 00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:01,759 Speaker 1: could not build an iPhone obviously, But to your point 690 00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:04,400 Speaker 1: about um Dante, what I think is really interesting is 691 00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:06,200 Speaker 1: that during that time period, I mean, those were the 692 00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:08,680 Speaker 1: scholars that were that they it was the scholars that 693 00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:11,480 Speaker 1: were sort of keeping this alive right to a certain extent, 694 00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:14,439 Speaker 1: and it was in the real house, not necessarily, um, 695 00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:17,360 Speaker 1: something practiced by the public at large. And if Dante, 696 00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:20,200 Speaker 1: who wrote in Italian rather than Latin because he wanted 697 00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:22,920 Speaker 1: to reach more people, want to reach the people, right, 698 00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:25,440 Speaker 1: if he had a better understanding of that would be 699 00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:27,360 Speaker 1: very interesting to see how that might have influenced the 700 00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:29,760 Speaker 1: masses during that time. Yeah. But of course if Dante 701 00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:31,080 Speaker 1: had gone into map we would have we might have 702 00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:33,520 Speaker 1: missed out on one of the greatest pieces of literature 703 00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:36,719 Speaker 1: the world has ever seen. So here here well, hey, 704 00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:41,000 Speaker 1: so advanced technology of the ancients. It's a great subject. 705 00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:43,319 Speaker 1: I really love it. Um, but let's get some listener 706 00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:48,319 Speaker 1: mail in here before Garry drives us out of here. Yeah. Um, 707 00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:51,160 Speaker 1: First we have one from Jackie. Jackie right fan, and 708 00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:53,600 Speaker 1: she says hello. First of all, thanks for the podcast 709 00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:56,320 Speaker 1: on meditation. I've recently begun meditating, and just as I 710 00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:59,399 Speaker 1: started wondering what was happening in my brain, you show 711 00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:02,600 Speaker 1: up with the here. Hey, I'm actually writing with a 712 00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:05,080 Speaker 1: request that I'm sure you've received before. How will the 713 00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:08,160 Speaker 1: zombie apocalypse work? After all, we have an official emergency 714 00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:10,960 Speaker 1: plan and the zombie proof House. H Yeah, both of 715 00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:14,200 Speaker 1: those I think have showed that. We've discussed the the 716 00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:17,799 Speaker 1: emergency plan from the CDC in a blog post last week, 717 00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:19,759 Speaker 1: and the zombie proof House I can get shown up 718 00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:23,680 Speaker 1: on our Facebook feed. Um blow the minds quote? Anyway, 719 00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:26,080 Speaker 1: Jackie goes on to say, anyway, thanks for a great podcast, 720 00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:28,960 Speaker 1: keep up the good work. Um. Yeah, the zombie apocalypse 721 00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:31,640 Speaker 1: is an interesting scenario and just trying to figure out, 722 00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:35,719 Speaker 1: you know, how we respond to um, two scenarios of 723 00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:40,480 Speaker 1: a pandemic disease. The CDC, of course, has jumped on 724 00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:43,839 Speaker 1: it recently as easy as a way to to sort 725 00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:46,440 Speaker 1: of get the message out about emergency preparedness, because the 726 00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:49,520 Speaker 1: emergency preparedness kit that you might have for the zombie 727 00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:52,040 Speaker 1: apocalypse is more or less like what you would have, 728 00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:54,960 Speaker 1: you know, in case there was an energy crisis or 729 00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:58,440 Speaker 1: disease or fire or earthquake or any number of things. Yeah. 730 00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:00,399 Speaker 1: I thought it was a brilliant way to to bring 731 00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:03,719 Speaker 1: attention to that, just to you know, basically parallel it 732 00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:07,600 Speaker 1: with the zombie apo apocalypse. Yeah, and I highly recommend 733 00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:10,640 Speaker 1: anybody who's interested in zombies if you haven't already read 734 00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:15,839 Speaker 1: Max Brooks World War Z. This is a really fun read, 735 00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:18,520 Speaker 1: not only because it concerns zombies and people you know, 736 00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:21,480 Speaker 1: in a post apocalyptic environment trying to figure out what 737 00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:24,520 Speaker 1: they're doing, but he does a great job of taking 738 00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:26,800 Speaker 1: the idea of the zombie apocalypse and applying it to 739 00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:31,319 Speaker 1: different regions of the planet, different situations, and asking like, hey, 740 00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:36,440 Speaker 1: how would the zombie apocalypse UH affect relations between Indian 741 00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:39,879 Speaker 1: Pakistan and UH? And there's a really thought provoking way 742 00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:42,000 Speaker 1: of looking at it. So so I would recommend that 743 00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:44,759 Speaker 1: to any listeners out there who are into zombies. We 744 00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:49,440 Speaker 1: also have a quick email from Chris with a K 745 00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:51,759 Speaker 1: Chris with a K right, and it says thanks for 746 00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:54,280 Speaker 1: having such a great show. While listening to the prolonged 747 00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:58,640 Speaker 1: lifespan episode that's Birthday Candles, I immediately began to wonder 748 00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:01,840 Speaker 1: if suicide rates would jump along with the increased lifespan. 749 00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:05,600 Speaker 1: Even though people could be healthy physically, the mental toll 750 00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:08,600 Speaker 1: of such longevity would be extreme. Trying to find purpose 751 00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:10,840 Speaker 1: in life may be difficult, and I don't want to 752 00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:13,600 Speaker 1: work until I'm sixt five now What would I feel 753 00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:15,399 Speaker 1: like if I had to work until I was six 754 00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:19,400 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty years old before I could retire? That alone, 755 00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:24,160 Speaker 1: Uh makes a person prompt suicide? Um, major societal changes 756 00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:26,040 Speaker 1: would have to occur before I want to live to 757 00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:28,440 Speaker 1: be a thousand if we were if we lived at 758 00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:30,520 Speaker 1: that aide, we'd be in school until we were two 759 00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:34,200 Speaker 1: hundred years old. UM wouldn't have children or get married 760 00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:36,600 Speaker 1: until we were three hundred, and that would bring up 761 00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:38,800 Speaker 1: the point of marriage. The thought of spending a lifetime 762 00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:41,800 Speaker 1: with the same person seems astronomical in these terms. Anyway, 763 00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:43,640 Speaker 1: Thanks for having such a great podcast and keep up 764 00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:46,000 Speaker 1: the good work. Indeed, these are you know, all the 765 00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:47,959 Speaker 1: different things you have to think about. We have human 766 00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:51,600 Speaker 1: life lifespan. Was to jump from less than a century 767 00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:55,160 Speaker 1: to more than nine centuries, how would that effect the 768 00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:57,960 Speaker 1: flow in the basic definition of what it is to 769 00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:02,279 Speaker 1: be human? Right? Can you up mode another person's brain 770 00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:04,280 Speaker 1: to your own? Brighton? Could you have a different experience? 771 00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:06,279 Speaker 1: Could you completely start over at two D and become 772 00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:08,719 Speaker 1: a different person? And all sorts of questions? Could you 773 00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:10,759 Speaker 1: go from being a TV starting the movie starting back 774 00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:14,600 Speaker 1: to being a TV star again? Um? Career I don't know. 775 00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:16,320 Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean Tom Hanks, we don't You 776 00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:18,080 Speaker 1: don't see him going back to t v D No, 777 00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:23,920 Speaker 1: not yet. So hey, um, if you have anything to 778 00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:26,759 Speaker 1: add about the technology of the ancients, be it a 779 00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:30,040 Speaker 1: really cool corner from history that we missed or a 780 00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:33,760 Speaker 1: really out there theory about how you know the ancient 781 00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:38,200 Speaker 1: Babylonians had submarines or something, then hit us up with it, 782 00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:40,839 Speaker 1: share it with us on Facebook again, we are blow 783 00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:43,000 Speaker 1: the Mind there and you can also find us on 784 00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:46,080 Speaker 1: Twitter also Blow the Mind, and we update both those 785 00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:50,080 Speaker 1: feeds with stuff all day long, different different links here 786 00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:52,200 Speaker 1: on this one and on the other, so that there's 787 00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:55,040 Speaker 1: a little diversification. Yeah, and also make sure that you 788 00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:58,480 Speaker 1: check out the article what was Archimedes Death Ray give 789 00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:01,120 Speaker 1: us a little bit more into Kamedes and all the 790 00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:04,560 Speaker 1: coolness that he created, and you can just pop that 791 00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:07,200 Speaker 1: into our search bar, or perhaps it will be on 792 00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:09,040 Speaker 1: our homepage on the day that you come to how 793 00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:11,879 Speaker 1: stuff works dot com. In the meantime, you can send 794 00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:15,680 Speaker 1: us an email and blow the mind at how stuff 795 00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:22,319 Speaker 1: works dot com. Be sure to check out our new 796 00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:25,759 Speaker 1: video podcast, Stuff from the Future. Join how Stuff Work 797 00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:29,360 Speaker 1: staff as we explore the most promising and perplexing possibilities 798 00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:29,960 Speaker 1: of tomorrow,