WEBVTT - PRISM Part Two 0:00:04.240 --> 0:00:07.200 Get in touch with technology with text Stuff from how 0:00:07.280 --> 0:00:15.840 stuff works dot com. Hey there, and welcome to text Stuff. 0:00:16.320 --> 0:00:20.680 My name is redacted. No, I'm Jonathan Strickling. I learned 0:00:21.480 --> 0:00:23.079 today we're gonna talk a little bit more about the 0:00:23.160 --> 0:00:27.240 n s A and the data collection that it's been 0:00:27.840 --> 0:00:31.160 participating in. And uh, and exactly what is that? How 0:00:31.160 --> 0:00:34.559 does that apply to you, whether you're an American citizen 0:00:34.640 --> 0:00:38.800 or someone living abroad. What exactly is going on? And 0:00:38.800 --> 0:00:41.160 and specifically what all this prism how about is about? 0:00:41.200 --> 0:00:47.160 Should we be concerned? Spoiler? Yes, um concerned? At least 0:00:47.760 --> 0:00:49.680 it's always good to educate yourself as much as you 0:00:49.720 --> 0:00:52.519 possibly can when you're talking about classified information that is 0:00:52.560 --> 0:00:56.440 being withheld from people. But let's let's start with talking 0:00:56.440 --> 0:00:59.720 about a personality, someone who has been identified as being 0:00:59.760 --> 0:01:04.000 the very center of this controversy, the man who leaked 0:01:04.080 --> 0:01:07.240 the information to the press that let us know about 0:01:07.280 --> 0:01:11.200 about prison period. Yes, Edward Snowdon. Edward Snowdon formerly a 0:01:11.240 --> 0:01:14.600 technical contractor for the n s A. I am assuming 0:01:14.680 --> 0:01:18.400 they have terminated that employment. Well he was, okay, so 0:01:18.400 --> 0:01:21.000 so he is thirty years old right now as of 0:01:21.040 --> 0:01:23.839 this podcast. He was twenty nine when he leaked this information, 0:01:23.920 --> 0:01:28.360 which which seems terrifically young for being a whistleblower on 0:01:28.480 --> 0:01:32.560 one of the largest intelligence gathering entities in the world. 0:01:32.800 --> 0:01:35.160 Some might even go so far as to suggest that 0:01:35.200 --> 0:01:37.840 he has he has effectively, at least as far as 0:01:37.840 --> 0:01:40.640 the United States is concerned, thrown the rest of his 0:01:40.680 --> 0:01:43.959 life away, which I mean, in other words, there were 0:01:44.000 --> 0:01:48.720 some major consequences to his actions, and so that says 0:01:48.800 --> 0:01:51.600 something right, well, you know, and there's there's a lot 0:01:51.640 --> 0:01:53.760 of different points of view on on on him and 0:01:53.800 --> 0:01:56.640 what he's done. Um, but uh, who is this guy? 0:01:56.720 --> 0:01:58.560 I wanted to say a little bit about him since 0:01:58.560 --> 0:02:00.680 all of this stuff that's been swirling around and um. So, 0:02:00.680 --> 0:02:03.040 so he got his g D and listed the army. 0:02:03.080 --> 0:02:06.520 In two thousand three, um was was discharged after breaking 0:02:06.640 --> 0:02:10.359 his legs in a Special Forces training exercise. Yeah, so 0:02:10.760 --> 0:02:13.560 trained for special Forces. UM then worked at the n 0:02:13.639 --> 0:02:15.720 s A as a security guard and then I t 0:02:16.160 --> 0:02:20.799 security in the c i A. Yeah, so he crossed 0:02:20.800 --> 0:02:23.840 the cross departments. He's crossed streams. In two thousand seven, 0:02:23.840 --> 0:02:27.280 the CIA sent him on assignment to Geneva, Switzerland, UM 0:02:27.440 --> 0:02:31.520 and then later he signed with defense contractor UM Uh 0:02:31.840 --> 0:02:37.360 booz Allen Hamilton's UM as a assist amin I see 0:02:37.560 --> 0:02:39.239 right right right, So it turned out that he had 0:02:39.280 --> 0:02:42.680 had an ability with computers. So it was because when 0:02:42.680 --> 0:02:44.400 you think about like he started off like a security 0:02:44.400 --> 0:02:49.360 guard and now he's overseeing actual information system right right, 0:02:49.400 --> 0:02:52.880 like like six figure salary, Like pretty pretty important dude 0:02:53.040 --> 0:02:55.600 for this contractor um uh he was. He was working 0:02:55.639 --> 0:02:58.720 on an ns A contract out in Hawaii under under 0:02:58.720 --> 0:03:03.480 bus Allen Hamilton's UM when he copied certain classified documents 0:03:03.520 --> 0:03:07.160 and removed them entirely from his office before telling his bosses, hey, 0:03:07.200 --> 0:03:10.280 I need some vacation. He specifically told them that he 0:03:10.320 --> 0:03:14.040 needed to leave in order to undergo epilepsy treatments. Wow, 0:03:14.720 --> 0:03:18.200 and then flew to Hong Kong and contacted the press 0:03:18.360 --> 0:03:20.200 with all the stuff that we're gonna be talking about 0:03:20.200 --> 0:03:22.440 in the right. And there's still quite a bit of 0:03:22.440 --> 0:03:25.840 controversy about him. There are people who consider him to 0:03:25.880 --> 0:03:29.400 be a whistleblower and uh and someone who has the 0:03:29.440 --> 0:03:31.680 interests of the American public at heart. There are others 0:03:31.760 --> 0:03:33.480 who go so far as to say that he's a 0:03:33.520 --> 0:03:37.520 trader um. And there are people who say that maybe 0:03:37.520 --> 0:03:40.840 traders the wrong word, but he certainly has put a 0:03:40.840 --> 0:03:43.400 lot of people at risk by revealing information that was 0:03:43.400 --> 0:03:46.480 supposed to be secret. So there's a there's a lot 0:03:46.560 --> 0:03:49.680 of different views on this, and we're not gonna really try. 0:03:49.800 --> 0:03:52.480 We're trying not to lay down on one side or 0:03:52.520 --> 0:03:56.600 the other, but we we you'll probably get a little 0:03:56.640 --> 0:03:59.000 hint of our own personal but least, but we don't 0:03:59.080 --> 0:04:02.119 we don't mean to push them on anyone. Absolutely, Now, 0:04:02.200 --> 0:04:04.320 this is this is you know, it's it's as as 0:04:04.360 --> 0:04:07.400 people who talk. We do have opinions. But um, in fact, 0:04:07.400 --> 0:04:10.000 we're not even sure the crazy thing is exactly what 0:04:10.080 --> 0:04:11.920 he has leaked to the press. Um. We we know 0:04:12.000 --> 0:04:14.800 that there was a forty one slide power point presentation 0:04:15.520 --> 0:04:19.320 UM about a program called Prism, about a program called Prism. UM, 0:04:19.360 --> 0:04:23.640 and there was basically what we know, And there was 0:04:23.720 --> 0:04:28.919 some some information about phone program as well, because Prism 0:04:28.960 --> 0:04:33.600 Prism really was mainly about uh, internet communication, but there's 0:04:33.640 --> 0:04:37.880 also this element about phone records. Uh, there was about 0:04:37.960 --> 0:04:41.640 the the n s A has access to information. I 0:04:41.680 --> 0:04:43.920 think it's something like seven years worth of information of 0:04:44.040 --> 0:04:49.560 Verizon customers phone information. Um, that's a lot of info. Oh, absolutely, Well, 0:04:49.560 --> 0:04:51.760 you know, I'm just saying that we're not exactly sure 0:04:52.000 --> 0:04:55.320 what documents exist and where this information has come from overall, 0:04:55.360 --> 0:04:58.320 aside from this one power point presentation, which are the 0:04:58.520 --> 0:05:01.640 host of works article about this pointed out that UM, 0:05:01.880 --> 0:05:05.400 that this proves that, yes, international security is just as 0:05:05.400 --> 0:05:10.520 boring as your job, superspies power point. I've also seen 0:05:10.560 --> 0:05:12.719 quite a few people who took the power point presentation 0:05:12.720 --> 0:05:15.799 and then uh distilled it down to something like twelve 0:05:15.880 --> 0:05:19.200 slides and said that, you know, they obviously need some 0:05:19.200 --> 0:05:23.800 some some classes on power point uh design. And in 0:05:23.880 --> 0:05:26.760 my thought is like, well, I'm glad you're able to 0:05:26.760 --> 0:05:29.240 to take a step back and critic makes a little 0:05:29.240 --> 0:05:32.240 bit of a joke as opposed to freaking out, but 0:05:32.320 --> 0:05:35.880 so okay to to catch us up on the climate 0:05:36.040 --> 0:05:40.120 and overall politics of of what has led to all 0:05:40.160 --> 0:05:42.400 of this mess two thousand one and to say came 0:05:42.480 --> 0:05:45.640 under direct fire for failing to catch the plot of 0:05:45.680 --> 0:05:50.880 the World Trade Center attack UM. And subsequently, the USA 0:05:50.920 --> 0:05:55.200 Patriot Act was signed by George W. Bush with bipartisan 0:05:55.320 --> 0:05:58.960 congressional support. This was the act that gave the government 0:05:59.200 --> 0:06:05.000 much broader capabilities when it came to surveillance and detecting 0:06:05.200 --> 0:06:10.480 potential terrorists acts um, and some would argue, in fact, 0:06:10.520 --> 0:06:15.440 many have argued that it ended up violating at least 0:06:15.520 --> 0:06:19.800 some freedoms of American citizens in the process. Sure, um 0:06:19.839 --> 0:06:22.320 in two thousand two, and we didn't actually find out 0:06:22.360 --> 0:06:24.640 about this. The the American public or the public at large, 0:06:24.640 --> 0:06:26.719 did not find out about this until two thousand five. 0:06:27.360 --> 0:06:31.039 H George W. Signed an executive order that specifically authorized 0:06:31.080 --> 0:06:33.920 the n s A to UM to monitor international emails 0:06:33.920 --> 0:06:38.320 and phone calls from people inside the US. Yeah, that 0:06:38.440 --> 0:06:42.159 was skipping the part where the Special Court outlined in 0:06:42.360 --> 0:06:45.200 VISA is supposed to review each case. Right, And we'll 0:06:45.200 --> 0:06:47.320 talk more about VISA in a bit, But yeah, so 0:06:47.360 --> 0:06:52.479 this is essentially giving even more broad powers to when 0:06:52.480 --> 0:06:54.600 when when The New York Times leaked this information, and 0:06:55.000 --> 0:06:58.840 the officials maintained that they were still requiring the n 0:06:58.920 --> 0:07:04.920 s A to obtain arrants for entirely domestic communications, right, Um, 0:07:04.920 --> 0:07:06.960 This is where it gets complicated because again we talked 0:07:06.960 --> 0:07:10.320 about in our last podcast about how a foreign agent 0:07:10.920 --> 0:07:14.360 can be someone who is not an American citizen, who's 0:07:14.400 --> 0:07:17.760 not in the United States, and then a lot of 0:07:17.760 --> 0:07:20.320 these protections that we're talking about don't apply because the 0:07:20.360 --> 0:07:23.520 protections that we mostly talk about American citizens, that's what 0:07:23.600 --> 0:07:26.800 the Constitution is covering. You know, we can't really cover 0:07:27.160 --> 0:07:30.360 the freedoms of people in other nations because that's not 0:07:30.520 --> 0:07:35.080 the role of one government to say for another. Uh. 0:07:35.120 --> 0:07:37.160 You know that that kind of falls more on the 0:07:37.240 --> 0:07:39.520 other governments as well as the United Nations and some 0:07:39.600 --> 0:07:44.160 other organizations. So uh, but when it comes to American citizens, 0:07:44.200 --> 0:07:47.080 they're supposed to be certain rules that we follow. This 0:07:47.280 --> 0:07:51.800 was an example of expanding those rules. All right. So 0:07:52.440 --> 0:07:54.640 two thousand five that's when The New York Times ends 0:07:54.720 --> 0:07:58.360 up publishing this information. Right. Also in two thousand five, 0:07:58.640 --> 0:08:01.679 that was when the n s ARE created US Cyber Command, 0:08:01.720 --> 0:08:05.760 which is that network warfare unit designed to specifically protect 0:08:06.120 --> 0:08:10.840 against terrorist data and network threats. Two thousand six an 0:08:10.840 --> 0:08:15.240 interesting note, um we it was revealed by a former 0:08:15.320 --> 0:08:19.080 a T and T technician that um that the company 0:08:19.120 --> 0:08:21.400 had allowed the n s A to install a computer 0:08:21.480 --> 0:08:24.720 at San Francisco Switching Center, which happens to be a 0:08:24.840 --> 0:08:29.800 key hub for fiber optic cables. Yeah, this was where 0:08:29.920 --> 0:08:34.520 we learned about the secret rooms. Right. So this is 0:08:34.559 --> 0:08:37.559 where and we'll we'll probably mention this again later on. 0:08:37.640 --> 0:08:41.199 But this is where the we we learned about the 0:08:41.280 --> 0:08:44.920 n s A creating special rooms and various carriers, whether 0:08:44.960 --> 0:08:49.280 their phone carriers or beyond telecommunications all the way through 0:08:49.640 --> 0:08:53.760 Internet carriers, that they were putting in these special secret 0:08:53.840 --> 0:08:58.160 rooms that would allow them access. Anyone who had the 0:08:58.240 --> 0:09:00.280 n s A clearance could gain access to it, but 0:09:00.320 --> 0:09:02.839 otherwise you could not go in there. So, in other words, 0:09:03.000 --> 0:09:04.800 an A T and T employee, if that A T 0:09:04.880 --> 0:09:08.000 n T employee did not have special access granted by 0:09:08.000 --> 0:09:09.800 the n s A, they could not go into this 0:09:09.920 --> 0:09:11.480 room even though it was within a T and T. 0:09:12.480 --> 0:09:14.439 This was what was allowing the n s A to 0:09:15.240 --> 0:09:20.120 two intercept information without having to actually go to A 0:09:20.200 --> 0:09:22.160 T and T and say, hey, hey, I want this thing. 0:09:22.360 --> 0:09:24.320 Yeah there, here's a list. Here's a list of the 0:09:24.360 --> 0:09:27.320 stuff that we have been authorized to ask for. Give 0:09:27.360 --> 0:09:29.320 it to us. Now, they don't have to go for 0:09:29.360 --> 0:09:31.600 the authorization because they just have this special room. All 0:09:31.640 --> 0:09:33.040 they have to do is show up and go into 0:09:33.040 --> 0:09:36.080 the special room and then they run. And I'll talk 0:09:36.160 --> 0:09:38.760 more about how they collect their data and the kind 0:09:38.800 --> 0:09:42.280 of queries they are running, and also the sort of 0:09:43.160 --> 0:09:46.600 mental gymnastics you need to do in order to understand 0:09:46.640 --> 0:09:50.160 how they look at this as not being not falling 0:09:50.240 --> 0:09:53.920 under that Fourth Amendment protection against unreasonable search and seizure. 0:09:54.400 --> 0:09:56.520 If you remember from our last podcast we taught that's 0:09:56.520 --> 0:09:59.000 central to a lot of the arguments against what is 0:09:59.000 --> 0:10:01.120 going on with the n s A is the idea 0:10:01.160 --> 0:10:03.839 that under the Constitution, we have this Fourth Amendment right 0:10:04.120 --> 0:10:06.720 that protects us from unreasonable search and seizure, and the 0:10:06.760 --> 0:10:10.480 government is supposed to have at least uh, they're supposed 0:10:10.520 --> 0:10:15.559 to be have authorization and evidence before they can go 0:10:15.840 --> 0:10:20.160 and search you as an American citizen. Again, the supplies 0:10:20.200 --> 0:10:23.080 to American citizens. And it gets complicated again when we 0:10:23.120 --> 0:10:26.800 talk about foreign agents who could be American citizens that 0:10:27.600 --> 0:10:30.160 or or an American citizen who's talking to a foreign agent. 0:10:30.360 --> 0:10:35.120 Right that also American communication lines. Yeah really, Oh, it's 0:10:35.120 --> 0:10:37.160 so sticky, um and and and and again. All of 0:10:37.200 --> 0:10:39.240 this is stuff that we already knew about. None of 0:10:39.280 --> 0:10:43.120 this is new. None of this was leaked by every Yeah, 0:10:43.120 --> 0:10:46.080 this was stuff that had been revealed over the years 0:10:46.120 --> 0:10:49.120 through various means. Sometimes there were things that were just 0:10:49.240 --> 0:10:52.440 met part of law. So if you just read the law, 0:10:52.480 --> 0:10:54.880 you would understand it. Some of this was stuff that 0:10:55.320 --> 0:10:58.800 wasn't laid out in the law but was later uncovered 0:10:58.800 --> 0:11:01.280 by various news papers, things of the New York Times, 0:11:01.280 --> 0:11:04.400 Washington Post, etcetera. Yeah. Um, the next big one was 0:11:04.440 --> 0:11:07.439 in two thousand seven. That was the Protect America Act, 0:11:07.920 --> 0:11:11.360 signed into law by George W. Bush. Um. This this 0:11:11.520 --> 0:11:16.040 was this basically allowed um the Attorney General and the 0:11:16.080 --> 0:11:19.079 Director of National Intelligence who we we We talked about 0:11:19.120 --> 0:11:23.720 that role in the first podcast. UM two explain in 0:11:23.760 --> 0:11:28.080 a classified document how the US would be collecting intelligence 0:11:28.080 --> 0:11:31.520 on foreigners overseas over the course of the next year. Right. 0:11:31.559 --> 0:11:34.640 And it it's also known as Title seven. So that's 0:11:34.679 --> 0:11:36.920 the other name for this. If you've ever heard Title seven, 0:11:36.960 --> 0:11:40.200 that's referring to the Protect America Act of two thousand seven, Right, Um. 0:11:40.360 --> 0:11:42.560 And the important part about this is that, UM, it 0:11:42.640 --> 0:11:46.640 does not require them to name specific targets or places. 0:11:47.160 --> 0:11:49.000 They don't you don't even Yeah, you don't have to 0:11:49.000 --> 0:11:50.960 do that, which means you don't need a warrant. Obviously, 0:11:50.960 --> 0:11:52.800 if you if you don't have to name the specific 0:11:52.840 --> 0:11:55.679 targets or places, then clearly the warrant is not right. 0:11:56.520 --> 0:11:58.320 How would you get a warrant if you just said 0:11:58.400 --> 0:12:00.920 someone somewhere is doing something. Let me look in not 0:12:01.120 --> 0:12:05.040 that that's so. So essentially this is the warrantless wire 0:12:05.080 --> 0:12:08.360 tapping portion of law. If you've ever heard about that, 0:12:08.400 --> 0:12:11.880 about warrantless wire taps, that's where this comes from. And 0:12:11.960 --> 0:12:14.960 it was supposed to just focus on, like you said, 0:12:15.040 --> 0:12:18.680 foreign intelligence, right, it's uh, and only if the targets 0:12:18.679 --> 0:12:23.360 were reasonably believed to be outside the US. Now what 0:12:23.520 --> 0:12:27.640 counts for reasonable believability? I don't know, because they're not 0:12:27.720 --> 0:12:30.400 telling me so. I mean, a lot of these terms 0:12:30.480 --> 0:12:33.439 are vaguely defined, and many of them are vaguely defined 0:12:33.640 --> 0:12:36.880 for a reason. It's to give as much flexibility as possible. 0:12:37.720 --> 0:12:41.200 If you're being less charitable, it's to to to be 0:12:41.360 --> 0:12:45.040 as draconian as possible. I wouldn't go that far. I'm 0:12:45.240 --> 0:12:48.800 I'm thinking of the sense that I want the flexibility. Uh. 0:12:48.880 --> 0:12:51.880 And if there ever were a point where we defined it, 0:12:51.880 --> 0:12:54.040 it would likely be in a court case, like you 0:12:54.040 --> 0:12:56.200 would bring something to court and the court would decide 0:12:56.200 --> 0:12:59.880 whether or not it met some criteria for reasonable belief 0:12:59.880 --> 0:13:03.560 of it. But that also will get into a little 0:13:03.559 --> 0:13:05.720 bit more of a discussion. When we talk about the 0:13:05.840 --> 0:13:08.960 n s A and uh, and and what their threshold 0:13:09.080 --> 0:13:12.520 is for believing someone to not be an American citizen 0:13:12.600 --> 0:13:15.679 before they start collecting all the data on them. So, anyway, 0:13:15.760 --> 0:13:19.360 two thousand seven was the Protect America Act. What what 0:13:19.360 --> 0:13:22.880 happens two thousand eight? Well? Okay, um, So the Protect 0:13:22.920 --> 0:13:26.920 America Act technically expired early in two thousand eight, um, 0:13:27.160 --> 0:13:30.640 and was subsumed by if I didn't just make that 0:13:30.679 --> 0:13:34.440 word up, by the by the two PHISA amendments, Right, 0:13:34.480 --> 0:13:38.560 that's the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, which was originally enacted 0:13:38.600 --> 0:13:41.520 into law in nineteen seventy eight. Now, these amendments changed 0:13:41.640 --> 0:13:44.960 that act, right, I mean that they obviously they amended it. Now, 0:13:45.080 --> 0:13:48.240 the original FISA Act was there to try and put 0:13:48.240 --> 0:13:52.960 down specific rules when it comes to foreign surveillance, and 0:13:53.000 --> 0:13:56.320 it's set down a lot of different restrictions that the 0:13:56.320 --> 0:13:59.680 government had to obey in order to do this in 0:13:59.679 --> 0:14:02.760 a way that was seen as responsible and accountable. The 0:14:02.800 --> 0:14:06.320 amendments started to loosen some of those restrictions to give 0:14:06.480 --> 0:14:11.200 the intelligence communities more freedom to pursue surveillance in an 0:14:11.240 --> 0:14:15.760 effort to counteract any sort of uh, any sort of 0:14:15.920 --> 0:14:21.080 anything that would endanger national security. Right. Specifically, this included, 0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:23.520 uh one that you might and an amendment that you 0:14:23.600 --> 0:14:25.600 might have heard of um in the news, which is 0:14:25.640 --> 0:14:30.440 five A section seven oh two, which basically uh okay. 0:14:30.440 --> 0:14:33.040 So so according to the Director of National Intelligence, it 0:14:33.120 --> 0:14:37.520 facilitates the targeted acquisition of foreign intelligence information concerning foreign 0:14:37.600 --> 0:14:42.400 targets located outside the United States under court oversight. Sounds pretty, 0:14:42.600 --> 0:14:46.080 sounds pretty on the up and up court oversight. It's 0:14:46.240 --> 0:14:49.920 only targeting foreign targets, only foreign targets that are outside 0:14:49.920 --> 0:14:52.680 the United States as and sound like it's too too 0:14:52.680 --> 0:14:56.480 bad as far as encroaching upon American citizens rights, well, 0:14:56.520 --> 0:15:01.080 the problem is that according to the washing To Post anyway, 0:15:01.680 --> 0:15:05.120 according to two documents that they have since uncovered, um, 0:15:05.360 --> 0:15:09.240 the their analysts only have to have a certainty rates 0:15:09.520 --> 0:15:13.040 what someone is foreign, that someone is not of an 0:15:13.240 --> 0:15:16.600 American citizen right or not in America even Yeah, there's 0:15:16.640 --> 0:15:19.680 a fifty one certainty that they have to meet. So, 0:15:19.720 --> 0:15:23.200 in other words, coin flip plus one and if you watch, 0:15:23.280 --> 0:15:25.520 don't be dumb, it might just be a coin flip 0:15:25.560 --> 0:15:29.600 depending upon the coin, you know, the one I'm talking about. Yeah, Like, 0:15:29.680 --> 0:15:32.240 because the way certain coins are made, they do actually 0:15:32.240 --> 0:15:34.560 flip on one side. A little more than the other. 0:15:36.040 --> 0:15:38.360 This is a that's that's all they have to do. 0:15:38.400 --> 0:15:40.120 They have to feel a little bit better than a 0:15:40.120 --> 0:15:43.720 coin flip situation that a person is in fact of 0:15:44.480 --> 0:15:48.960 foreign nationality not an American citizen for them to move forward, 0:15:49.320 --> 0:15:53.880 which seems pretty low to me. Also, again, according to 0:15:53.880 --> 0:15:56.960 the Washington Post, they have training materials that advise new 0:15:57.000 --> 0:16:00.400 analysts that quote, it's nothing to worry about out end 0:16:00.480 --> 0:16:05.880 quote if they accidentally collect us content, right, don't worry. 0:16:06.240 --> 0:16:09.160 We we know what we're doing. We won't do anything here. 0:16:09.720 --> 0:16:12.520 We promise we won't look at it. There's gonna be 0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:14.880 editorializing at the end of this episode, by the way, folks. 0:16:15.000 --> 0:16:17.560 Uh And and I'm just warning you now because I 0:16:17.600 --> 0:16:21.040 do have something to say about just just the dangers 0:16:21.240 --> 0:16:25.600 of pursuing this kind of line of thought without without 0:16:25.680 --> 0:16:28.680 questioning it. I'm not saying that everything that's been done 0:16:28.840 --> 0:16:31.160 is bad, but I am saying that you've got to 0:16:31.280 --> 0:16:36.160 question things a collective. Some may or may not so anyway. Alright, 0:16:36.200 --> 0:16:38.400 So so let's pick up with FISA here now that 0:16:38.480 --> 0:16:41.720 this is still stuff that we knew about before Snowdon's 0:16:42.080 --> 0:16:47.720 information lead. So FISA created Uh there's the FISA Court. Now, 0:16:47.720 --> 0:16:51.080 the FISA Court oversees these requests that are are sent 0:16:51.160 --> 0:16:56.280 in to U to pursue surveillance over foreign targets. Keeping 0:16:56.320 --> 0:16:58.360 in mind this is still not for American citizens, it's 0:16:58.400 --> 0:17:01.880 for foreign targets. The is a court is a secret court. 0:17:02.680 --> 0:17:04.560 If you listen to our last podcast, you heard us 0:17:04.560 --> 0:17:07.120 talk about it a little bit. It's hearings are in secret, 0:17:07.200 --> 0:17:10.360 it's findings are in secret. There are eleven court members. 0:17:10.359 --> 0:17:14.480 Those eleven court members are appointed by the Supreme Court 0:17:14.600 --> 0:17:18.480 Chief Justice, and there is no um, there's no process 0:17:18.520 --> 0:17:22.480 there to approve of those appointments. That's the Supreme Court 0:17:23.160 --> 0:17:26.520 Chief Justice. Just as finals say, which some have argued 0:17:26.880 --> 0:17:30.200 means that it creates a court that doesn't have diversity 0:17:30.240 --> 0:17:32.760 in it because you only have one person and that 0:17:32.800 --> 0:17:36.119 person may end up uh completely filling that court with 0:17:36.200 --> 0:17:39.320 people that that that follow that same person's philosophy, the 0:17:39.400 --> 0:17:43.840 Supreme Court Chief Justice's philosophy. Uh So there's that argument 0:17:43.840 --> 0:17:48.400 as well. Um. Also, whenever they do serve out any 0:17:48.480 --> 0:17:50.679 kind of warrant or order, if you've listened to our 0:17:50.720 --> 0:17:53.840 last episode, you know there's a gag order involved with that, 0:17:53.920 --> 0:17:57.280 which means that the recipient cannot acknowledge the fact that 0:17:57.320 --> 0:17:59.440 they received this. They can't talk about it, they can't 0:17:59.440 --> 0:18:04.040 reveal it, which may explain why some of the companies 0:18:04.040 --> 0:18:06.840 that were revealed within that presentation that Lauren alluded to 0:18:06.840 --> 0:18:09.440 at the top of the show, when they were approached 0:18:09.480 --> 0:18:11.720 about this, they said, we don't know, we don't know 0:18:11.760 --> 0:18:15.200 anything about this. Well, there are to two possibilities. One 0:18:15.280 --> 0:18:17.720 is that they actually don't know about it, and that 0:18:17.840 --> 0:18:20.520 the way that the n s A is gathering information 0:18:20.880 --> 0:18:26.720 actually circumvents their internal workings. That's either they were they 0:18:26.720 --> 0:18:29.119 were completely unaware of it, as they said, or they 0:18:29.119 --> 0:18:31.479 are under a gag order and cannot say yeah. So 0:18:31.520 --> 0:18:34.560 either way, we we can't know for sure unless someone 0:18:34.800 --> 0:18:37.680 from those companies comes out and leaks that information. But 0:18:38.080 --> 0:18:44.480 either way they disowned any knowledge of this. UH. Going 0:18:44.520 --> 0:18:47.000 on to the what the what fights it can do? 0:18:47.200 --> 0:18:51.600 They define foreign powers as any foreign government or component 0:18:51.800 --> 0:18:55.120 of a foreign government, whether or not officially recognized by 0:18:55.160 --> 0:18:58.520 the United States. In other words, there could be governments 0:18:58.560 --> 0:19:02.840 out there that government is claiming that they oversee a 0:19:02.840 --> 0:19:06.280 sovereign nation, but the United States has not officially recognized 0:19:06.280 --> 0:19:09.160 that as a sovereign nation under FISA, that doesn't matter. 0:19:09.160 --> 0:19:12.320 They're still classified as a foreign government. Uh. They also 0:19:12.400 --> 0:19:15.320 defined as any faction of a foreign nation or nations, 0:19:15.440 --> 0:19:20.040 or any foreign based political organization that isn't substantially composed 0:19:20.320 --> 0:19:25.120 of United States persons. Uh. Faction and substantially not defined. 0:19:25.560 --> 0:19:31.399 So don't really know what would meet that criteria. Maybe 0:19:31.400 --> 0:19:36.440 it's don't know. Any entity, like a political organization or 0:19:36.480 --> 0:19:39.080 a business as directed or controlled by a foreign government 0:19:39.160 --> 0:19:42.640 also is considered a foreign power, and any group engaged 0:19:42.680 --> 0:19:46.960 in or preparing to engage in international terrorism. That's broadly 0:19:46.960 --> 0:19:50.080 defined as activities that involve violent acts or acts dangerous 0:19:50.080 --> 0:19:52.600 to human life, that are a violation of US criminal 0:19:52.680 --> 0:19:56.560 laws or would be a violation if committed in the US, 0:19:56.680 --> 0:19:59.720 or that appear to be intended to intimidate or coerce 0:19:59.800 --> 0:20:03.080 a civilian population, to influence the policy of government by 0:20:03.080 --> 0:20:06.280 intimidation or coercion, or to affect the conduct of a 0:20:06.280 --> 0:20:10.879 government by assassination or kidnapping, and occur totally outside the 0:20:10.960 --> 0:20:14.360 United States or transcend national boundaries in terms of how 0:20:14.400 --> 0:20:19.200 they are accomplished. UH So that's the definition of foreign 0:20:19.240 --> 0:20:22.560 power as far as foreign agent is concerned because remember 0:20:22.600 --> 0:20:25.919 this is really involving the communications between foreign powers and 0:20:25.960 --> 0:20:31.000 foreign agents. Foreign agent is defined under FISA as anyone 0:20:31.040 --> 0:20:33.080 that is not a US person who is an officer 0:20:33.240 --> 0:20:35.840 or employee of a foreign power, anyone that is not 0:20:35.920 --> 0:20:38.760 a U S person who engages in quote unquote clandestine 0:20:38.840 --> 0:20:42.760 intelligence activities also known as spying in the United States 0:20:42.760 --> 0:20:46.800 on behalf of a foreign power, or any US person 0:20:46.880 --> 0:20:50.240 that does the same and maybe violating the law. That's 0:20:50.320 --> 0:20:54.359 an important distinction their US person who is also not 0:20:54.440 --> 0:20:56.920 only acting as a foreign agent but also violating the law. 0:20:57.359 --> 0:20:58.840 So if you're not a U S person, you don't 0:20:58.840 --> 0:21:01.639 have to be suspected of a crime. You just have 0:21:01.760 --> 0:21:04.600 to be foreign That's that's all you have to be. 0:21:05.040 --> 0:21:06.439 If you are a U S person, then you have 0:21:06.560 --> 0:21:09.520 to h be suspected of a crime on top of 0:21:09.560 --> 0:21:12.320 being a foreign agent. And anyone, whether a U S 0:21:12.359 --> 0:21:15.200 person or not, who engages in or prepares for acts 0:21:15.280 --> 0:21:18.760 of international terrorism or sabotage is also defined as an 0:21:18.760 --> 0:21:23.840 agent of foreign power under FISA. So that's what is 0:21:23.960 --> 0:21:26.240 really the concern here. That's the n s A says 0:21:26.280 --> 0:21:30.359 that they are only interested in these communications between foreign 0:21:30.400 --> 0:21:33.560 powers and foreign agents. Any other information that they gather 0:21:33.680 --> 0:21:37.200 that happens to be about American citizens is completely coincidental, 0:21:37.280 --> 0:21:39.359 has nothing to do with what they are interested in, 0:21:39.600 --> 0:21:42.800 and you should just stop worrying. And so that is 0:21:42.840 --> 0:21:45.280 the the body of the law as as we have 0:21:45.440 --> 0:21:49.520 known it. UM. Unfortunately, there are a little bit of 0:21:49.680 --> 0:21:52.120 extra bits here and there that only came to light 0:21:52.640 --> 0:21:55.200 when when Snowden leaked some information. But we will talk 0:21:55.240 --> 0:21:58.000 about that in the second half of the show. And 0:21:58.480 --> 0:22:01.359 right now we should take a quick break to thank 0:22:01.359 --> 0:22:05.960 our sponsors. Sounds good to me. Let's take that break, alright. 0:22:06.000 --> 0:22:07.760 So were back. So when we left off, it was 0:22:07.880 --> 0:22:11.639 just before we started learning about the additional information that 0:22:11.720 --> 0:22:15.400 was leaked by Snowdon and UM, you had something about 0:22:15.800 --> 0:22:18.240 you know, we mentioned in that last that last half 0:22:18.240 --> 0:22:24.200 that you know, if any American citizen information is collected, 0:22:25.000 --> 0:22:29.159 that's okay, yeah, well okay. So so part part of 0:22:29.160 --> 0:22:31.199 what we found out thanks to Snowden is that on 0:22:31.320 --> 0:22:36.520 July nine, UM guidelines were proved by the Secret fives 0:22:36.560 --> 0:22:40.440 A Court and also Attorney General Eric Holder UM that 0:22:40.440 --> 0:22:43.119 that although the n s A is required to UM 0:22:43.440 --> 0:22:47.960 minimize the collection of data from U. S citizens, UM 0:22:48.000 --> 0:22:53.960 any inadvertently acquired domestic communications can be kept under certain 0:22:54.000 --> 0:22:59.640 circumstances with no warrant for up to five years. Yeah, 0:23:00.200 --> 0:23:03.639 that's um that's a big question mark there, right, I 0:23:03.640 --> 0:23:07.600 mean that definitely sounds like without a warrant. So already 0:23:08.440 --> 0:23:11.640 that seems to violate the Fourth Amendment to the Constitution. 0:23:11.720 --> 0:23:14.240 I'm sure there are other arguments against that, but it's 0:23:14.240 --> 0:23:18.040