WEBVTT - Paperwork | Ori Spado's Revenge 0:00:01.000 --> 0:00:03.960 What's going on? I'm S. L. Jackson, author of the 0:00:04.000 --> 0:00:08.560 award winning debut urban fantasy novel Animal Instincts The Urban Jungle. 0:00:08.840 --> 0:00:11.360 Animal Instincts The Urban Jungle. Is it a collection of 0:00:11.400 --> 0:00:14.040 creative stories based on the lines of animals and the 0:00:14.200 --> 0:00:17.400 urban underworld jungle. The stories are focused around the family 0:00:17.400 --> 0:00:21.280 are outlaw rabbits. So get to know these characters Leads, Jumps, Mamo, 0:00:21.400 --> 0:00:24.880 Popa and Groovy by ordering your copy today at one 0:00:25.239 --> 0:00:28.639 s L. Jackson dot com. That's one s L. Jackson 0:00:28.680 --> 0:00:31.760 dot com to order your copy of the award winning 0:00:31.920 --> 0:00:38.000 urban fantasy novel Animal Instincts The Urban Jungle. Boy. All right, 0:00:39.280 --> 0:00:42.800 welcome to everybody to another episode of Against the Chronicles. 0:00:43.440 --> 0:00:47.400 I'm James McDonald here with my host Big Still, and 0:00:47.520 --> 0:00:50.680 tonight we have a very special guest. We've had them 0:00:50.680 --> 0:00:53.239 on the show before, gentleman by the name of Ory 0:00:53.360 --> 0:00:58.520 Spade On. Hello, everybody, there's a pleasure to be here again. 0:00:58.720 --> 0:01:02.640 You're good to have you back again. And recently, um 0:01:02.680 --> 0:01:05.320 glad that started some controversy and I'm on his show 0:01:05.319 --> 0:01:09.280 when he had the gentleman Michael Francaise and um Michael. 0:01:09.319 --> 0:01:11.360 For those out there that might have saw Michael had 0:01:11.400 --> 0:01:17.200 some rather despairing remarks, and if you don't mind, take 0:01:17.240 --> 0:01:20.160 a moment to correct him. The first thing I'd like 0:01:20.280 --> 0:01:24.199 to remark about is he said that he told Jack 0:01:24.280 --> 0:01:29.280 Siolardi to throw me off the office. Jack Jolari has 0:01:29.319 --> 0:01:32.360 been a friend of mine for over forty year. No, 0:01:33.400 --> 0:01:37.600 he did represent Michael franchise at one period of time, 0:01:38.800 --> 0:01:41.880 and that ended a few a few years ago, prior 0:01:41.920 --> 0:01:48.240 to Jack's dying, when Jack got him a deal and 0:01:48.520 --> 0:01:51.040 got him a quarter of a million from a producer, 0:01:51.960 --> 0:01:54.960 but he took the quarter a million cup it got 0:01:55.000 --> 0:01:58.360 another quarter a million from another producer and went with 0:01:58.440 --> 0:02:02.000 the other guy. New to say, nothing really happened from 0:02:02.040 --> 0:02:07.200 the whole event anyway, But I want to clear that 0:02:07.280 --> 0:02:12.320 up because I was at the church a Good Shepherd 0:02:12.320 --> 0:02:17.160 where they had a service for Jack when he passed away, 0:02:17.200 --> 0:02:20.560 of which I was invited to. I was invited to 0:02:20.680 --> 0:02:25.239 Paramount Studio. They had Joe Montaigne, they had Frankie Avalon 0:02:25.360 --> 0:02:28.880 a whole school a celebrity, and there were several hundred 0:02:29.000 --> 0:02:37.120 people there. There was no Michael Frenchise. So Michael, get 0:02:37.160 --> 0:02:42.920 your story straight. I have no objection to anything you say, 0:02:42.960 --> 0:02:45.320 but you know that I'm going to come back with 0:02:45.440 --> 0:02:51.080 the truth. Michael. Jack was a very dear friend of mine. 0:02:51.120 --> 0:02:53.839 He was your friend at one time too. But no, 0:02:53.960 --> 0:02:57.160 Jack never threw me out of the office. In fact, 0:02:57.200 --> 0:03:00.440 I had somebody out of Jack's office for when he 0:03:00.480 --> 0:03:03.800 called one day. I want just cause who that person was. 0:03:03.919 --> 0:03:08.880 But I did throw him out. Uh, so I want 0:03:08.880 --> 0:03:12.399 to correct that. In addition, you know Jack Seun calls 0:03:12.480 --> 0:03:18.320 me uncle, So where does he come off with this crap? 0:03:20.240 --> 0:03:23.919 The next day he says, he said that his father 0:03:23.960 --> 0:03:29.120 didn't know me. Well, I'm very confused with that there, Michael, 0:03:30.400 --> 0:03:34.680 because I have an indictment over here, a shoppersd indictment. 0:03:35.040 --> 0:03:38.560 I'd like to show you, all right, And the indictment 0:03:38.640 --> 0:03:41.600 began with a Comba frame and they were initially fourteen 0:03:41.960 --> 0:03:45.400 but then we got severed off. Do you see Michael 0:03:45.400 --> 0:03:50.480 Franchise's name on that indictment plus his name on here? 0:03:50.920 --> 0:03:56.720 You don't see Michael Franchise. Are Sonny Franchise? John Sonny? Yeah? 0:03:57.520 --> 0:04:00.320 John France says he also known that Sunny Francis Easy 0:04:00.760 --> 0:04:06.160 Sean Capellino known as Johnny Cupp, Christopher Corona, Vic Joseph 0:04:06.240 --> 0:04:11.840 the Gorga, Angelo gi and Graham Day and Orlando Spader 0:04:12.000 --> 0:04:14.600 also known as Ari Spader. That's it right there, and 0:04:14.720 --> 0:04:18.040 there's no Michael Frank. Then the receipts rightdicul, I turn 0:04:18.080 --> 0:04:22.440 this around. I turn its around real quick. Yeah, they 0:04:22.440 --> 0:04:27.880 were the receipts right there. So I didn't know, Sonny, 0:04:27.880 --> 0:04:30.640 Why was that in indictment on Michael? You should have 0:04:30.720 --> 0:04:33.440 told your friends at the FBI that I didn't know 0:04:33.520 --> 0:04:35.680 your father. Maybe I wouldn't have better than that indictment, 0:04:36.520 --> 0:04:39.480 but you know they know you're a liar. Offshow. No, 0:04:39.760 --> 0:04:41.880 let me let me ask you this. I'm sorry, James, 0:04:41.880 --> 0:04:43.640 so I cut you off, But let me ask you 0:04:43.680 --> 0:04:47.120 this though, Where does the conflict come from with you 0:04:47.200 --> 0:04:50.200 and Michael Francisi? Like, like, what is this all about? There? 0:04:50.279 --> 0:04:52.880 For that there, you're gonna have to read my book, 0:04:53.320 --> 0:04:58.919 The Accidental Gangster. It's in the book. Michael is a 0:04:59.040 --> 0:05:02.039 bleep in the book. My book is not about Michael 0:05:02.080 --> 0:05:06.040 Frank my bike. My book is about Ory Sprado and 0:05:06.240 --> 0:05:09.240 my life. It's not about him. It's not about his 0:05:09.320 --> 0:05:15.400 stepfather or anybody but me. But it is in my book, 0:05:16.160 --> 0:05:20.719 and it takes uh. It's a result of a sit 0:05:20.800 --> 0:05:23.599 down that we had at the Russian Tea Room on 0:05:23.839 --> 0:05:29.680 fifty seventh Street in New York. And uh, you know, 0:05:29.920 --> 0:05:32.560 Michael Poe claims that he was a tough guy and 0:05:32.640 --> 0:05:36.520 he was a couple. Let's talk about that. Michael was 0:05:36.640 --> 0:05:40.760 never a street guy. Michael was never a tough guy. 0:05:42.200 --> 0:05:47.360 Michael was a son or stepson, and it's correct that 0:05:47.520 --> 0:05:52.840 he is his stepson a Sonny franchise. Michael's real name 0:05:52.880 --> 0:05:56.720 at birth was Grill. Michael was a one and a 0:05:56.760 --> 0:06:01.799 half years old when Sonny met Tina Kappa bie uncle 0:06:04.040 --> 0:06:09.719 who was worked at the Store club in New York. So, yes, 0:06:09.839 --> 0:06:13.320 Michael is a step son. He is not full blood 0:06:13.640 --> 0:06:18.200 of Sonny franchise, but he had his name change. Sonny 0:06:18.320 --> 0:06:22.760 did adopt him out there. We'll call Sonny his father 0:06:22.839 --> 0:06:26.800 because Sonny adopted him. Give him that credit. On the 0:06:26.800 --> 0:06:29.159 other hand, I also give Michael cruddy. Michael is a 0:06:29.279 --> 0:06:35.240 very smart individual. Now. When he got made, that was 0:06:35.279 --> 0:06:39.360 only because of Sonny. When he became a couple, who 0:06:39.440 --> 0:06:43.960 was only because it's Sonny and Michael got very lucky 0:06:44.120 --> 0:06:48.240 and the guests link tax business and he made hundreds 0:06:48.360 --> 0:06:52.520 of millions of dollars. Now there's a big difference with 0:06:52.560 --> 0:06:59.000 Sonny franchise and Michael Francais. The differences with Sonny you 0:06:59.160 --> 0:07:03.560 make money. Sonny makes money. You could earn with Sonny franchise. 0:07:04.600 --> 0:07:08.680 Michael franchise. I don't know if anybody, and there's somebody 0:07:08.680 --> 0:07:10.920 out there, there's very money with Michael, let me know. 0:07:12.480 --> 0:07:16.480 But Michael, once he takes money, you could versely count 0:07:16.520 --> 0:07:20.440 that money being dead because it never appeared again, and 0:07:20.520 --> 0:07:24.000 he don't give anything back. So by not sharing or 0:07:24.120 --> 0:07:27.040 giving what you should have bringing bride or whatever you 0:07:27.040 --> 0:07:30.080 want to call it, by him being made, he didn't 0:07:30.080 --> 0:07:33.360 have to worry about nobody bothering him or to worry. Uh. 0:07:33.720 --> 0:07:39.480 From my understanding to this day, Michael was still very concerned. Uh, 0:07:39.560 --> 0:07:41.640 you know, Michael, you're supposed to pull out of pictures. 0:07:42.120 --> 0:07:45.360 He saw his father twice and thirty too much when 0:07:45.400 --> 0:07:48.760 Sonny was in the nursing home, and then on one 0:07:48.880 --> 0:07:52.440 occasion Michael didn't go, but he sent his lawyers there 0:07:53.680 --> 0:07:57.400 to try to get Sonny to sign over Sonny's rights 0:07:58.640 --> 0:08:01.960 to Michael. Michael was no dummy. I mean, Sunny was 0:08:02.000 --> 0:08:04.760 no dummy. Sunny was a very smart guy. He threw 0:08:04.840 --> 0:08:07.040 him off. He didn't sign. He didn't sign the rights. 0:08:08.360 --> 0:08:10.840 You know you heard me on another podcast. I happen 0:08:10.880 --> 0:08:14.000 to know the lawyer who put the money in Panama 0:08:14.480 --> 0:08:18.680 for Michael franchise. I gave his initial on the lad 0:08:18.760 --> 0:08:23.400 interview because he's still alive. Uh. And I don't want 0:08:23.400 --> 0:08:25.680 to get him involved in anything, but Michael knows who 0:08:25.680 --> 0:08:30.600 it is. All the people that were around who were 0:08:30.760 --> 0:08:37.600 to protect Michael franchise were put there by Sonny Michael, 0:08:39.240 --> 0:08:41.440 and he worked ahead to be done. It was Sonny 0:08:41.440 --> 0:08:49.160 who took care of it, not Michael. Uh. I became 0:08:49.280 --> 0:08:52.959 very close with Sonny. As people know. People in New 0:08:53.040 --> 0:08:56.120 York know it. I could pick up the phone and 0:08:56.160 --> 0:08:59.760 I could still call people in New York. Michael can't 0:08:59.760 --> 0:09:01.959 do it. Michael can't call the people that I talked to. 0:09:04.760 --> 0:09:12.760 Michael says they didn't know his father. Uh. Michael. Michael's brother, Johnny, 0:09:14.440 --> 0:09:20.960 with Sonny's really real son became an informant world wire 0:09:21.440 --> 0:09:28.120 against his father's Sonny, me and several others. And I 0:09:28.200 --> 0:09:35.800 have had a court transcript of and I'll read you 0:09:35.840 --> 0:09:38.560 a part of it here and then I'll give it all. Right, 0:09:38.640 --> 0:09:43.040 I'm crossing in gamin ation. Mr franchise. Are you familiar 0:09:43.080 --> 0:09:48.920 with the individual name Orlando Spatto, Yes, I am. How 0:09:48.960 --> 0:09:51.920 do you know him? He was a friend of my 0:09:52.160 --> 0:09:56.040 father's back in the seventies. Is he involved in the 0:09:56.120 --> 0:10:01.720 Colombo Prime family? Yes, your son, that's your son, that's 0:10:01.720 --> 0:10:06.079 his real son on the witness stand in court. So 0:10:06.320 --> 0:10:13.000 Michael gets a fucking straight could I say fun? Michael, 0:10:14.360 --> 0:10:16.800 I must have had over a hundred phone calls of 0:10:16.960 --> 0:10:22.120 people telling me you lie, You lie every time you 0:10:22.200 --> 0:10:26.960 open your mouth. Your brother, Johnny, was an addict, became 0:10:27.000 --> 0:10:30.360 an infeign. But I give Johnny a lot more credit, 0:10:31.360 --> 0:10:33.640 not that they have any respect for him, but I 0:10:33.679 --> 0:10:38.200 give Johnny credit because he had the guts to get 0:10:38.200 --> 0:10:43.520 on a witness stand, point his finger and talk. You 0:10:43.600 --> 0:10:48.319 don't have those kind of guts, Michael. Michael, you talked 0:10:48.320 --> 0:10:52.440 about when you took the oath. I never took the oath. 0:10:52.480 --> 0:10:55.440 I refused it tool twice, once on the West Coast, 0:10:55.520 --> 0:10:58.280 once on the Eage coast. But I bide it by 0:10:58.320 --> 0:11:02.320 those rules all my life because I know what they are. 0:11:03.520 --> 0:11:07.000 You talked about how you were brothers to all these guys. 0:11:07.080 --> 0:11:11.040 Michael Herr is part of a proper statement. That's been 0:11:11.080 --> 0:11:16.439 following Michael all right, by Michael franchise and on this 0:11:16.520 --> 0:11:21.640 particular proper statement, Michael, you give the names of Jimmy, Angelina, 0:11:23.640 --> 0:11:28.480 Sally Mesca, Courtsca. I can't even say Mrs ms Shada, 0:11:28.760 --> 0:11:34.120 Johnny Minerva, Jerry Brown and Vito Google. That's five days, Michael. 0:11:35.000 --> 0:11:39.120 You gave the information to the FBI. Five people that 0:11:39.320 --> 0:11:42.480 got made at the same time that you did. That's 0:11:42.520 --> 0:11:44.880 a no. No. You want to tell me you're not 0:11:45.120 --> 0:11:51.560 in informat Michael. What about John Marshall? Remember John Marshall 0:11:51.720 --> 0:11:54.080 at the flea market that you had on a long island. 0:11:55.280 --> 0:12:00.240 You informed against him, you proffered and for your pet. Well, 0:12:00.440 --> 0:12:04.440 you do not know understand what a profer agreement is. 0:12:04.520 --> 0:12:08.800 I'd like to explain it. A proper agreement is when 0:12:08.840 --> 0:12:13.920 you have made a deal with the FBI and the 0:12:14.040 --> 0:12:19.080 U S Attorney for lesser time and all sorts of 0:12:19.120 --> 0:12:22.040 deal they allow you to keep money. Sometimes all sorts 0:12:22.040 --> 0:12:24.640 of deals are made. Once that deal is made, you 0:12:24.800 --> 0:12:29.079 sit down with the FBI and the U. S. Attorney 0:12:29.880 --> 0:12:32.120 And it's not like you sit down for fifteen minutes. 0:12:32.200 --> 0:12:34.960 He see you go on for days where you have 0:12:35.200 --> 0:12:39.640 to mention it and talk about every single person that 0:12:39.720 --> 0:12:44.320 you know. So you might say that you know, I 0:12:44.440 --> 0:12:49.280 know John Doe who lives over in Long Beach and 0:12:49.760 --> 0:12:55.360 he's a made guy, and John I hear deals drugs. 0:12:57.040 --> 0:13:01.240 What that information does is gives the e I the 0:13:01.360 --> 0:13:08.679 information to begin an investigation on that individual, and they 0:13:08.679 --> 0:13:12.480 when the FBI investigate, they eventually give you get you. 0:13:13.520 --> 0:13:21.520 In addition, it was on national TV while he Michael 0:13:21.720 --> 0:13:25.599 did take the stand against Norby Walters. I think you 0:13:25.640 --> 0:13:27.679 all know Norby Walters. He was very big in the 0:13:27.800 --> 0:13:33.600 music business. He was Norby Walters and then he got 0:13:33.600 --> 0:13:36.320 to be a sports agent. In addition, and him and 0:13:36.360 --> 0:13:40.280 Michael were working together. Michael informed on him in the 0:13:40.400 --> 0:13:47.720 courtroom in Chicago. Uh. In addition, there are over fifty 0:13:48.120 --> 0:13:53.920 over fifty individuals names that Michael gave to the FBI 0:13:54.040 --> 0:13:58.320 and the U S attorney talent exactly who everybody was, 0:13:59.000 --> 0:14:02.800 and the Colombio fanly and other families in the New 0:14:02.840 --> 0:14:06.800 York area. So why is why? I mean, when you 0:14:06.880 --> 0:14:12.280 hear about the mafia, you will see thorough when you 0:14:12.400 --> 0:14:15.640 hear he read it or I don't like rats, How 0:14:15.640 --> 0:14:19.040 do Marveda put it? Why is he still alive. Why 0:14:19.160 --> 0:14:22.520 why That's a very good question, James, and allowed me 0:14:22.560 --> 0:14:28.280 to answer that once again. His father's Sonny franchise. Sonny 0:14:28.600 --> 0:14:31.960 was the underball start Coloma crime family, and Sonny was 0:14:32.160 --> 0:14:38.880 very powerful individual up until the time that you know, 0:14:39.960 --> 0:14:44.200 Michael became an informant. And from what I was told, 0:14:45.560 --> 0:14:50.040 Michael paid off a million dollars in cash UH to 0:14:50.200 --> 0:14:55.040 a lot of people, five people. Michael was not allowed 0:14:55.080 --> 0:15:00.360 to go back to New York. And as Michael his mother, 0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:04.120 you should tell me that she used to say, when 0:15:04.120 --> 0:15:09.640 Sunny dies, Michael will die. She told me that several times. 0:15:10.080 --> 0:15:15.240 She told other people that there. Tina died shortly after 0:15:15.360 --> 0:15:18.360 we were all in court and in Brooklyn. She died 0:15:18.360 --> 0:15:29.080 at cancer, Michael. That was Michael's real mother, Tina. She 0:15:29.280 --> 0:15:34.680 died broke and from my understanding, they had to bury 0:15:34.840 --> 0:15:39.880 her in her hospital gown. And while she was dying 0:15:39.880 --> 0:15:44.280 at cancer, she was calling Michael, Michael, you promise you 0:15:44.400 --> 0:15:47.360 come to see me. Michael never went to see her, 0:15:51.120 --> 0:15:53.960 so he that was his mother. So are you saying 0:15:54.000 --> 0:15:55.600 he never wanted to go see his mother that was 0:15:55.600 --> 0:15:59.880 passing away, she was dying, She died dying at cancer. 0:16:00.080 --> 0:16:07.280 He didn't go back. Look at look at if you 0:16:07.280 --> 0:16:10.240 would look at all the things that's going on or 0:16:11.240 --> 0:16:14.280 in in in your life, with all of this ship 0:16:14.360 --> 0:16:18.400 going back and forth and people speaking and dropping dimes 0:16:18.440 --> 0:16:21.240 on each other. Do you think that that's one of 0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:23.360 the reasons why he didn't go back because he knew 0:16:23.520 --> 0:16:26.800 he's in a serious situation. He knows because he never 0:16:26.920 --> 0:16:30.560 knows who is going to be that person to myke 0:16:30.600 --> 0:16:33.760 pop up and want to make his ball. She did, 0:16:33.800 --> 0:16:38.760 so could you understand why? And then again, on the 0:16:38.760 --> 0:16:45.800 other hand, Michael has been doing podcasts and interviews for 0:16:46.760 --> 0:16:51.840 thirty years. He has a big Christian that's a good scam. 0:16:52.040 --> 0:16:55.200 I gotta give him credit there. Now. He claims he's 0:16:55.240 --> 0:17:00.320 a born again Christian and he teaches the Bible. But 0:17:00.680 --> 0:17:03.640 the basic cust is he sells his books when he 0:17:03.640 --> 0:17:07.800 goes around the country, but not New York City. He'll 0:17:07.840 --> 0:17:10.280 go to state in New York. I know wherever he is. 0:17:11.040 --> 0:17:14.840 Everybody knows where Michael was. Michael was basically a public figure. 0:17:15.400 --> 0:17:17.679 So to take down a public figure that could be 0:17:17.760 --> 0:17:21.560 on the minds of people too. This is not like 0:17:21.640 --> 0:17:26.000 in the old days when I Michael, you know, beside 0:17:26.040 --> 0:17:30.520 your father. I knew Frank Costello, Russell Buffalino, I'll calin Marcello, 0:17:30.880 --> 0:17:33.920 Mayer Landskip, I can go on Michael all right, And 0:17:33.960 --> 0:17:36.200 I could direct dial any one of them any time 0:17:36.240 --> 0:17:39.080 I wanted to those I knew all those people before. 0:17:39.080 --> 0:17:42.399 I know Sunny. But back in those days, this and 0:17:42.480 --> 0:17:45.800 never would have happened, just would have been put away 0:17:45.840 --> 0:17:50.160 already and there'll be no discussions about it. But times 0:17:50.240 --> 0:17:56.840 have changed, and they changed much quite often. You read 0:17:57.080 --> 0:18:00.480 the proper agreement, do you understand there is this is 0:18:00.560 --> 0:18:04.640 just one page of several pages of a proper agreement 0:18:04.960 --> 0:18:09.639 which should been held under lock and key, because that 0:18:09.760 --> 0:18:15.000 information it's leaked out somehow at somebody's trial, and that's 0:18:15.000 --> 0:18:17.800 how this should come out. And that's how slowly but 0:18:17.920 --> 0:18:23.360 surely all this information will come out, because that's called discovery, 0:18:23.720 --> 0:18:25.720 and they had to bring it out when these people 0:18:26.160 --> 0:18:28.720 vot to court or vote a trial. Yeah, were from 0:18:28.720 --> 0:18:30.800 me with discovery. Let me ask you this, U, you 0:18:30.880 --> 0:18:34.520 say it's something earlier. Don't you think it's a possibility 0:18:34.520 --> 0:18:37.000 he could really be a born again Christian? Like why 0:18:37.040 --> 0:18:40.080 why do you say it's a scam? Because he was 0:18:40.200 --> 0:18:44.800 really a born a King Christian. Why is he talking 0:18:44.800 --> 0:18:48.560 about criminal activity all the time? All right, he's supposed 0:18:48.600 --> 0:18:52.680 to be an expert on it. Michael never did, no, 0:18:52.840 --> 0:18:55.520 or you know, I'm not disputing you enough, or I'm 0:18:55.520 --> 0:18:57.399 gonna asking that question, cause I'm pretty sure people have 0:18:57.920 --> 0:19:02.439 that question and say, well, maybe he did. Maybe. The 0:19:02.520 --> 0:19:07.959 reason I don't believe it because when his sister, Jia 0:19:08.119 --> 0:19:12.399 passed away. Jia also died of an overdose at a 0:19:12.480 --> 0:19:20.360 hotel in uh Florida, and Sonny was in uh St. Petersburg, 0:19:20.560 --> 0:19:26.040 Virginia at the time doing time, but the marshals took 0:19:26.119 --> 0:19:31.120 him to go to the funeral of his daughter. At 0:19:31.119 --> 0:19:33.560 the same time, a friend of mine named David called 0:19:33.560 --> 0:19:37.600 me and had a friend who was a limousine driver 0:19:38.600 --> 0:19:41.640 one car I'm not talking about a school car, one car, 0:19:42.040 --> 0:19:45.880 trying to make a living for his family, and Michael 0:19:45.960 --> 0:19:52.800 was trying to shake him down. David called me, and 0:19:52.800 --> 0:19:55.479 it was on the same day they were burying Jia 0:19:58.359 --> 0:20:04.680 and I I called Michael. Michael sold that I'm Whisker Boulevard, 0:20:06.280 --> 0:20:11.439 ah the Worser Corridor at the time. I said, Michael, 0:20:11.440 --> 0:20:14.680 this is LORI, what the hell you think you're doing 0:20:14.680 --> 0:20:16.919 with this kid. I said, this kid who was with 0:20:17.040 --> 0:20:22.800 me lay off him or were coming from the same mold. No, Michael, 0:20:22.840 --> 0:20:26.720 you broke that mold. Michael, you broke that molde long ago. 0:20:27.359 --> 0:20:31.119 Stay away from this kid, he says, he's with me 0:20:32.920 --> 0:20:37.080 as you understands. Yeah or okay, I says, And Michael, 0:20:37.119 --> 0:20:41.040 the other thing you want to talk so much, Why 0:20:41.080 --> 0:20:44.720 aren't you at the funeral of your sister. They're burying 0:20:44.720 --> 0:20:48.760 her right now. Is we're on the phone. Why aren't 0:20:48.760 --> 0:20:52.159 you there? My sister passed away and went back to 0:20:52.240 --> 0:20:58.800 New York. I mean, family is supposed to be family. 0:21:00.200 --> 0:21:04.560 I think Michael, maybe subconsciously. I'm not a psychiatrist. I 0:21:04.640 --> 0:21:09.200 don't know. Because of the fact that he's not blooded 0:21:10.800 --> 0:21:14.000 Si Franchise, that could be a difference. I don't know. 0:21:14.200 --> 0:21:20.640 I don't have those answers. Uh. You know his brother John, 0:21:20.960 --> 0:21:24.800 who I've done many things for. He says that I would. 0:21:24.840 --> 0:21:28.440 I never dealt drug with John franc Ai. Never. John 0:21:28.480 --> 0:21:32.440 franch A was a drunkide. There must be maybe all right, 0:21:32.800 --> 0:21:37.359 sevent to a hundred drug dealers in Los Angeles that 0:21:37.480 --> 0:21:39.879 I had to go to that keep them away from 0:21:39.960 --> 0:21:42.520 John Franchi when he lived out here, you know, speaking 0:21:42.560 --> 0:21:46.880 to John Fry says, you know, Michael made an accusation 0:21:46.920 --> 0:21:49.280 on Lash show also that he suspects that you may 0:21:49.280 --> 0:21:52.240 be the one to put his brother on drugs. It's funny, Michael, 0:21:52.240 --> 0:21:55.200 why don't you Johnny was a drug addict long before 0:21:55.200 --> 0:21:59.639 he came to California. Michael knows. That's a lie. I 0:21:59.720 --> 0:22:04.320 never but Johnny and drug. Was I ever involved in druge? Folks? Yes? 0:22:04.400 --> 0:22:10.280 I was never co came I did. You don't just 0:22:10.440 --> 0:22:12.800 to have several hundred pounds of marijuana going to New 0:22:12.840 --> 0:22:17.240 York every few weeks, yeah, I admit to that. That 0:22:17.400 --> 0:22:22.840 was back in early nine dies. Uh with all this 0:22:22.960 --> 0:22:25.679 going on, man, like this back and forth, like James said, 0:22:26.359 --> 0:22:29.320 you know, you would have thought, like just mafia traditions, 0:22:29.359 --> 0:22:30.760 they would have took care of the guy, you know, 0:22:30.800 --> 0:22:33.080 for doing all the things he said, and he also 0:22:33.160 --> 0:22:36.159 made um and he also refuted something else that you 0:22:36.200 --> 0:22:39.600 see it. He said that his dad never put a 0:22:39.640 --> 0:22:42.520 hit on you. Did dad never put a hit on me? 0:22:43.840 --> 0:22:47.000 I also had the court transpress at all and reference 0:22:47.080 --> 0:22:52.959 to that too. Okay, but you know what, being a man, 0:22:54.520 --> 0:22:56.679 you had to face out and understand what was the 0:22:56.720 --> 0:23:00.720 reality of Whitest. Sonny approved a hit on each spadal. 0:23:02.560 --> 0:23:07.080 It all came from another informant named Guy fit Battle, 0:23:09.600 --> 0:23:14.359 who tapes had over four hundred and fifty tapes of Sunny, 0:23:14.400 --> 0:23:19.159 Frank J and Michael A guy for thought it was 0:23:19.200 --> 0:23:23.639 out there, and Sonny told me he wanted me to 0:23:23.720 --> 0:23:27.680 introduce him. The Johnny unknownst to me at that time. 0:23:28.400 --> 0:23:31.280 He and Johnny already knew each other. They were both 0:23:31.359 --> 0:23:36.199 confidential informants. I didn't know it, but I had had 0:23:36.240 --> 0:23:40.120 you're making boy that I took care of. His name 0:23:40.200 --> 0:23:44.240 was Ricky. He got arrested. I was helping him. His 0:23:44.280 --> 0:23:47.280 wife came to my house with too Megican that Mike 0:23:47.480 --> 0:23:50.240 did he owe a half a million to The money 0:23:50.280 --> 0:23:53.400 was on the streets in Brooklyn. I knew the guys 0:23:53.440 --> 0:23:56.040 who had the money. I called him up. They said, already, 0:23:56.080 --> 0:23:59.600 we already got on your grant. Ricky didn't understand it. 0:24:00.080 --> 0:24:04.159 You know, we're converted and it's gonna take longer, but 0:24:04.200 --> 0:24:06.480 we got a hundred grand. The informer had the money 0:24:06.520 --> 0:24:08.800 picked up and sound half to me, and that's all 0:24:08.840 --> 0:24:12.160 the money I ever saw from it. Later I found 0:24:12.200 --> 0:24:15.200 out that it was the FBI and guy for thought 0:24:15.280 --> 0:24:18.000 of the informant that got that money. They collected the 0:24:18.080 --> 0:24:21.600 rest of the money. It just sounded me like everybody 0:24:21.680 --> 0:24:24.960 was greedy. Everybody had their hands in the cookie jar. Everybody. 0:24:25.000 --> 0:24:28.960 And then when and and me and like a lot 0:24:29.000 --> 0:24:34.120 of other people that watched MARFIW movies. You just see, 0:24:35.119 --> 0:24:39.760 I mean co heartedness didn't have a problem with killing. Uh. 0:24:40.000 --> 0:24:43.960 They took care of their families. Uh, it didn't matter. 0:24:44.920 --> 0:24:47.359 And this is the impression I was under. It didn't 0:24:47.400 --> 0:24:50.040 matter if you was my son or not. A rat 0:24:50.040 --> 0:24:54.680 was a rat. And and I'm I'm if they come 0:24:54.720 --> 0:24:57.240 and say I gotta hit you because your son did 0:24:57.320 --> 0:25:01.600 this and he going the quarter YadA yata, don't you 0:25:01.640 --> 0:25:03.840 think he's all the thistions should have been? You know 0:25:03.960 --> 0:25:09.080 you said the magic word, James. All Right, movies, what 0:25:09.200 --> 0:25:12.000 you're seeing the movies and what's real life are two 0:25:12.000 --> 0:25:18.240 different things. Okay, the movies they gotta make things, and 0:25:18.280 --> 0:25:20.760 they're all saying in Hollywood, they gotta make a film. 0:25:21.119 --> 0:25:26.199 The Middle America's gonna watch, all right, and so you 0:25:26.400 --> 0:25:30.320 have all those things. That's all creative stuff by writers. 0:25:30.359 --> 0:25:33.479 Are very good writers that come up with that stuff. 0:25:34.040 --> 0:25:36.280 You know, Nick Polegie is a dear friend of mine, 0:25:37.040 --> 0:25:40.200 and he did Good Fellows Casino, and you know, he 0:25:40.280 --> 0:25:44.000 and I have had a lot of conversations. How you know, 0:25:44.520 --> 0:25:48.359 all the conversations he had with Rosenthal for Casino and 0:25:48.560 --> 0:25:54.320 Henry Hill for a Good Fellows and uh, you know, 0:25:54.440 --> 0:25:57.240 they gotta take that there. And sometimes there's a book, 0:25:57.280 --> 0:25:59.280 they gotta take the book. And now you've got to 0:25:59.280 --> 0:26:02.840 creative film about it. You gotta take something that might 0:26:02.880 --> 0:26:07.879 be a boring sudger, and you've got to create that lure, 0:26:08.240 --> 0:26:13.199 lure of killings and hits and all this year. But 0:26:13.320 --> 0:26:21.560 getting back to where Sonny approved the Hemi whack, this 0:26:21.720 --> 0:26:25.280 informant went back to New York told Michael Catto Ponto, 0:26:25.359 --> 0:26:27.359 who was an acting captain of the Come On with 0:26:27.560 --> 0:26:31.960 Family who hadn't to be Sonny's nephew, that we're they're 0:26:31.960 --> 0:26:34.880 going to make all this money with Ori. Now all 0:26:34.920 --> 0:26:37.320 of a sudden, it's Ore that's going to be doing 0:26:38.160 --> 0:26:41.560 fifty kills every couple of weeks, and the New York 0:26:43.960 --> 0:26:47.000 and they're going back and east. Michael caught upon all 0:26:47.040 --> 0:26:50.200 the money that they're going to make with Ori. Of course, 0:26:50.280 --> 0:26:55.199 every time you start it, it's on tape. So Michael 0:26:55.240 --> 0:26:58.959 catt Uponto at the time is getting nervous and words 0:26:59.040 --> 0:27:01.200 his money the worse ought to be making with Lori 0:27:02.400 --> 0:27:06.200 and Guy Fitado. The informant says, you know, I think 0:27:06.520 --> 0:27:09.080 he's been doing the deal and he's screwing us out 0:27:09.080 --> 0:27:15.000 of the money. Michael went to Sunny and Sunny gave 0:27:15.040 --> 0:27:19.080 him hermission to white men. Of course, I'm still here, 0:27:20.840 --> 0:27:27.399 and my last words was Sunny while in prison, was 0:27:28.160 --> 0:27:30.960 in the courtroom because Sunny was on on bail. I 0:27:31.000 --> 0:27:36.040 didn't get bill. Sunny was on on Bill. You want 0:27:36.080 --> 0:27:39.119 in the court rooms anybody? I hear you're upset with me. 0:27:39.240 --> 0:27:42.080 Now he's standing in front of me. I'm already sitting 0:27:42.080 --> 0:27:46.800 down at the table with the other courty round. I said, no, not, 0:27:46.960 --> 0:27:50.200 I said, with your buddy. Why just because you gave 0:27:50.200 --> 0:27:52.720 permission to white men, I should want to sit with 0:27:52.760 --> 0:27:56.040 your bunny. For is the fact they used to call 0:27:56.119 --> 0:27:58.439 me and asked me coming in New York to have dinner. 0:27:59.600 --> 0:28:02.800 But you never called me that asked me what's really 0:28:02.840 --> 0:28:08.119 going on here, which could have if anybody worked too, 0:28:09.040 --> 0:28:14.040 would have jeopardized my life. Quite obviously. That situation was 0:28:14.200 --> 0:28:19.840 resolved ultimately what occurred. Michael Cotta Potto never called me, 0:28:20.840 --> 0:28:25.240 and I never discussed things with Michael Cato Ponto. If 0:28:25.240 --> 0:28:29.080 I discussed anything in the Clumbu crime family with anybody 0:28:29.400 --> 0:28:33.600 was only one person, Sunny franchise. So that's what he 0:28:33.760 --> 0:28:38.240