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Speaker 1: welcome to everybody to another episode of Against the Chronicles.
Speaker 1: I'm James McDonald here with my host Big Still, and
Speaker 1: tonight we have a very special guest. We've had them
Speaker 1: on the show before, gentleman by the name of Ory
Speaker 1: Spade On. Hello, everybody, there's a pleasure to be here again.
Speaker 1: You're good to have you back again. And recently, um
Speaker 1: glad that started some controversy and I'm on his show
Speaker 1: when he had the gentleman Michael Francaise and um Michael.
Speaker 1: For those out there that might have saw Michael had
Speaker 1: some rather despairing remarks, and if you don't mind, take
Speaker 1: a moment to correct him. The first thing I'd like
Speaker 1: to remark about is he said that he told Jack
Speaker 1: Siolardi to throw me off the office. Jack Jolari has
Speaker 1: been a friend of mine for over forty year. No,
Speaker 1: he did represent Michael franchise at one period of time,
Speaker 1: and that ended a few a few years ago, prior
Speaker 1: to Jack's dying, when Jack got him a deal and
Speaker 1: got him a quarter of a million from a producer,
Speaker 1: but he took the quarter a million cup it got
Speaker 1: another quarter a million from another producer and went with
Speaker 1: the other guy. New to say, nothing really happened from
Speaker 1: the whole event anyway, But I want to clear that
Speaker 1: up because I was at the church a Good Shepherd
Speaker 1: where they had a service for Jack when he passed away,
Speaker 1: of which I was invited to. I was invited to
Speaker 1: Paramount Studio. They had Joe Montaigne, they had Frankie Avalon
Speaker 1: a whole school a celebrity, and there were several hundred
Speaker 1: people there. There was no Michael Frenchise. So Michael, get
Speaker 1: your story straight. I have no objection to anything you say,
Speaker 1: but you know that I'm going to come back with
Speaker 1: the truth. Michael. Jack was a very dear friend of mine.
Speaker 1: He was your friend at one time too. But no,
Speaker 1: Jack never threw me out of the office. In fact,
Speaker 1: I had somebody out of Jack's office for when he
Speaker 1: called one day. I want just cause who that person was.
Speaker 1: But I did throw him out. Uh, so I want
Speaker 1: to correct that. In addition, you know Jack Seun calls
Speaker 1: me uncle, So where does he come off with this crap?
Speaker 1: The next day he says, he said that his father
Speaker 1: didn't know me. Well, I'm very confused with that there, Michael,
Speaker 1: because I have an indictment over here, a shoppersd indictment.
Speaker 1: I'd like to show you, all right, And the indictment
Speaker 1: began with a Comba frame and they were initially fourteen
Speaker 1: but then we got severed off. Do you see Michael
Speaker 1: Franchise's name on that indictment plus his name on here?
Speaker 1: You don't see Michael Franchise. Are Sonny Franchise? John Sonny? Yeah?
Speaker 1: John France says he also known that Sunny Francis Easy
Speaker 1: Sean Capellino known as Johnny Cupp, Christopher Corona, Vic Joseph
Speaker 1: the Gorga, Angelo gi and Graham Day and Orlando Spader
Speaker 1: also known as Ari Spader. That's it right there, and
Speaker 1: there's no Michael Frank. Then the receipts rightdicul, I turn
Speaker 1: this around. I turn its around real quick. Yeah, they
Speaker 1: were the receipts right there. So I didn't know, Sonny,
Speaker 1: Why was that in indictment on Michael? You should have
Speaker 1: told your friends at the FBI that I didn't know
Speaker 1: your father. Maybe I wouldn't have better than that indictment,
Speaker 1: but you know they know you're a liar. Offshow. No,
Speaker 1: let me let me ask you this. I'm sorry, James,
Speaker 1: so I cut you off, But let me ask you
Speaker 1: this though, Where does the conflict come from with you
Speaker 1: and Michael Francisi? Like, like, what is this all about? There?
Speaker 1: For that there, you're gonna have to read my book,
Speaker 1: The Accidental Gangster. It's in the book. Michael is a
Speaker 1: bleep in the book. My book is not about Michael
Speaker 1: Frank my bike. My book is about Ory Sprado and
Speaker 1: my life. It's not about him. It's not about his
Speaker 1: stepfather or anybody but me. But it is in my book,
Speaker 1: and it takes uh. It's a result of a sit
Speaker 1: down that we had at the Russian Tea Room on
Speaker 1: fifty seventh Street in New York. And uh, you know,
Speaker 1: Michael Poe claims that he was a tough guy and
Speaker 1: he was a couple. Let's talk about that. Michael was
Speaker 1: never a street guy. Michael was never a tough guy.
Speaker 1: Michael was a son or stepson, and it's correct that
Speaker 1: he is his stepson a Sonny franchise. Michael's real name
Speaker 1: at birth was Grill. Michael was a one and a
Speaker 1: half years old when Sonny met Tina Kappa bie uncle
Speaker 1: who was worked at the Store club in New York. So, yes,
Speaker 1: Michael is a step son. He is not full blood
Speaker 1: of Sonny franchise, but he had his name change. Sonny
Speaker 1: did adopt him out there. We'll call Sonny his father
Speaker 1: because Sonny adopted him. Give him that credit. On the
Speaker 1: other hand, I also give Michael cruddy. Michael is a
Speaker 1: very smart individual. Now. When he got made, that was
Speaker 1: only because of Sonny. When he became a couple, who
Speaker 1: was only because it's Sonny and Michael got very lucky
Speaker 1: and the guests link tax business and he made hundreds
Speaker 1: of millions of dollars. Now there's a big difference with
Speaker 1: Sonny franchise and Michael Francais. The differences with Sonny you
Speaker 1: make money. Sonny makes money. You could earn with Sonny franchise.
Speaker 1: Michael franchise. I don't know if anybody, and there's somebody
Speaker 1: out there, there's very money with Michael, let me know.
Speaker 1: But Michael, once he takes money, you could versely count
Speaker 1: that money being dead because it never appeared again, and
Speaker 1: he don't give anything back. So by not sharing or
Speaker 1: giving what you should have bringing bride or whatever you
Speaker 1: want to call it, by him being made, he didn't
Speaker 1: have to worry about nobody bothering him or to worry. Uh.
Speaker 1: From my understanding to this day, Michael was still very concerned. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, Michael, you're supposed to pull out of pictures.
Speaker 1: He saw his father twice and thirty too much when
Speaker 1: Sonny was in the nursing home, and then on one
Speaker 1: occasion Michael didn't go, but he sent his lawyers there
Speaker 1: to try to get Sonny to sign over Sonny's rights
Speaker 1: to Michael. Michael was no dummy. I mean, Sunny was
Speaker 1: no dummy. Sunny was a very smart guy. He threw
Speaker 1: him off. He didn't sign. He didn't sign the rights.
Speaker 1: You know you heard me on another podcast. I happen
Speaker 1: to know the lawyer who put the money in Panama
Speaker 1: for Michael franchise. I gave his initial on the lad
Speaker 1: interview because he's still alive. Uh. And I don't want
Speaker 1: to get him involved in anything, but Michael knows who
Speaker 1: it is. All the people that were around who were
Speaker 1: to protect Michael franchise were put there by Sonny Michael,
Speaker 1: and he worked ahead to be done. It was Sonny
Speaker 1: who took care of it, not Michael. Uh. I became
Speaker 1: very close with Sonny. As people know. People in New
Speaker 1: York know it. I could pick up the phone and
Speaker 1: I could still call people in New York. Michael can't
Speaker 1: do it. Michael can't call the people that I talked to.
Speaker 1: Michael says they didn't know his father. Uh. Michael. Michael's brother, Johnny,
Speaker 1: with Sonny's really real son became an informant world wire
Speaker 1: against his father's Sonny, me and several others. And I
Speaker 1: have had a court transcript of and I'll read you
Speaker 1: a part of it here and then I'll give it all. Right,
Speaker 1: I'm crossing in gamin ation. Mr franchise. Are you familiar
Speaker 1: with the individual name Orlando Spatto, Yes, I am. How
Speaker 1: do you know him? He was a friend of my
Speaker 1: father's back in the seventies. Is he involved in the
Speaker 1: Colombo Prime family? Yes, your son, that's your son, that's
Speaker 1: his real son on the witness stand in court. So
Speaker 1: Michael gets a fucking straight could I say fun? Michael,
Speaker 1: I must have had over a hundred phone calls of
Speaker 1: people telling me you lie, You lie every time you
Speaker 1: open your mouth. Your brother, Johnny, was an addict, became
Speaker 1: an infeign. But I give Johnny a lot more credit,
Speaker 1: not that they have any respect for him, but I
Speaker 1: give Johnny credit because he had the guts to get
Speaker 1: on a witness stand, point his finger and talk. You
Speaker 1: don't have those kind of guts, Michael. Michael, you talked
Speaker 1: about when you took the oath. I never took the oath.
Speaker 1: I refused it tool twice, once on the West Coast,
Speaker 1: once on the Eage coast. But I bide it by
Speaker 1: those rules all my life because I know what they are.
Speaker 1: You talked about how you were brothers to all these guys.
Speaker 1: Michael Herr is part of a proper statement. That's been
Speaker 1: following Michael all right, by Michael franchise and on this
Speaker 1: particular proper statement, Michael, you give the names of Jimmy, Angelina,
Speaker 1: Sally Mesca, Courtsca. I can't even say Mrs ms Shada,
Speaker 1: Johnny Minerva, Jerry Brown and Vito Google. That's five days, Michael.
Speaker 1: You gave the information to the FBI. Five people that
Speaker 1: got made at the same time that you did. That's
Speaker 1: a no. No. You want to tell me you're not
Speaker 1: in informat Michael. What about John Marshall? Remember John Marshall
Speaker 1: at the flea market that you had on a long island.
Speaker 1: You informed against him, you proffered and for your pet. Well,
Speaker 1: you do not know understand what a profer agreement is.
Speaker 1: I'd like to explain it. A proper agreement is when
Speaker 1: you have made a deal with the FBI and the
Speaker 1: U S Attorney for lesser time and all sorts of
Speaker 1: deal they allow you to keep money. Sometimes all sorts
Speaker 1: of deals are made. Once that deal is made, you
Speaker 1: sit down with the FBI and the U. S. Attorney
Speaker 1: And it's not like you sit down for fifteen minutes.
Speaker 1: He see you go on for days where you have
Speaker 1: to mention it and talk about every single person that
Speaker 1: you know. So you might say that you know, I
Speaker 1: know John Doe who lives over in Long Beach and
Speaker 1: he's a made guy, and John I hear deals drugs.
Speaker 1: What that information does is gives the e I the
Speaker 1: information to begin an investigation on that individual, and they
Speaker 1: when the FBI investigate, they eventually give you get you.
Speaker 1: In addition, it was on national TV while he Michael
Speaker 1: did take the stand against Norby Walters. I think you
Speaker 1: all know Norby Walters. He was very big in the
Speaker 1: music business. He was Norby Walters and then he got
Speaker 1: to be a sports agent. In addition, and him and
Speaker 1: Michael were working together. Michael informed on him in the
Speaker 1: courtroom in Chicago. Uh. In addition, there are over fifty
Speaker 1: over fifty individuals names that Michael gave to the FBI
Speaker 1: and the U S attorney talent exactly who everybody was,
Speaker 1: and the Colombio fanly and other families in the New
Speaker 1: York area. So why is why? I mean, when you
Speaker 1: hear about the mafia, you will see thorough when you
Speaker 1: hear he read it or I don't like rats, How
Speaker 1: do Marveda put it? Why is he still alive. Why
Speaker 1: why That's a very good question, James, and allowed me
Speaker 1: to answer that once again. His father's Sonny franchise. Sonny
Speaker 1: was the underball start Coloma crime family, and Sonny was
Speaker 1: very powerful individual up until the time that you know,
Speaker 1: Michael became an informant. And from what I was told,
Speaker 1: Michael paid off a million dollars in cash UH to
Speaker 1: a lot of people, five people. Michael was not allowed
Speaker 1: to go back to New York. And as Michael his mother,
Speaker 1: you should tell me that she used to say, when
Speaker 1: Sunny dies, Michael will die. She told me that several times.
Speaker 1: She told other people that there. Tina died shortly after
Speaker 1: we were all in court and in Brooklyn. She died
Speaker 1: at cancer, Michael. That was Michael's real mother, Tina. She
Speaker 1: died broke and from my understanding, they had to bury
Speaker 1: her in her hospital gown. And while she was dying
Speaker 1: at cancer, she was calling Michael, Michael, you promise you
Speaker 1: come to see me. Michael never went to see her,
Speaker 1: so he that was his mother. So are you saying
Speaker 1: he never wanted to go see his mother that was
Speaker 1: passing away, she was dying, She died dying at cancer.
Speaker 1: He didn't go back. Look at look at if you
Speaker 1: would look at all the things that's going on or
Speaker 1: in in in your life, with all of this ship
Speaker 1: going back and forth and people speaking and dropping dimes
Speaker 1: on each other. Do you think that that's one of
Speaker 1: the reasons why he didn't go back because he knew
Speaker 1: he's in a serious situation. He knows because he never
Speaker 1: knows who is going to be that person to myke
Speaker 1: pop up and want to make his ball. She did,
Speaker 1: so could you understand why? And then again, on the
Speaker 1: other hand, Michael has been doing podcasts and interviews for
Speaker 1: thirty years. He has a big Christian that's a good scam.
Speaker 1: I gotta give him credit there. Now. He claims he's
Speaker 1: a born again Christian and he teaches the Bible. But
Speaker 1: the basic cust is he sells his books when he
Speaker 1: goes around the country, but not New York City. He'll
Speaker 1: go to state in New York. I know wherever he is.
Speaker 1: Everybody knows where Michael was. Michael was basically a public figure.
Speaker 1: So to take down a public figure that could be
Speaker 1: on the minds of people too. This is not like
Speaker 1: in the old days when I Michael, you know, beside
Speaker 1: your father. I knew Frank Costello, Russell Buffalino, I'll calin Marcello,
Speaker 1: Mayer Landskip, I can go on Michael all right, And
Speaker 1: I could direct dial any one of them any time
Speaker 1: I wanted to those I knew all those people before.
Speaker 1: I know Sunny. But back in those days, this and
Speaker 1: never would have happened, just would have been put away
Speaker 1: already and there'll be no discussions about it. But times
Speaker 1: have changed, and they changed much quite often. You read
Speaker 1: the proper agreement, do you understand there is this is
Speaker 1: just one page of several pages of a proper agreement
Speaker 1: which should been held under lock and key, because that
Speaker 1: information it's leaked out somehow at somebody's trial, and that's
Speaker 1: how this should come out. And that's how slowly but
Speaker 1: surely all this information will come out, because that's called discovery,
Speaker 1: and they had to bring it out when these people
Speaker 1: vot to court or vote a trial. Yeah, were from
Speaker 1: me with discovery. Let me ask you this, U, you
Speaker 1: say it's something earlier. Don't you think it's a possibility
Speaker 1: he could really be a born again Christian? Like why
Speaker 1: why do you say it's a scam? Because he was
Speaker 1: really a born a King Christian. Why is he talking
Speaker 1: about criminal activity all the time? All right, he's supposed
Speaker 1: to be an expert on it. Michael never did, no,
Speaker 1: or you know, I'm not disputing you enough, or I'm
Speaker 1: gonna asking that question, cause I'm pretty sure people have
Speaker 1: that question and say, well, maybe he did. Maybe. The
Speaker 1: reason I don't believe it because when his sister, Jia
Speaker 1: passed away. Jia also died of an overdose at a
Speaker 1: hotel in uh Florida, and Sonny was in uh St. Petersburg,
Speaker 1: Virginia at the time doing time, but the marshals took
Speaker 1: him to go to the funeral of his daughter. At
Speaker 1: the same time, a friend of mine named David called
Speaker 1: me and had a friend who was a limousine driver
Speaker 1: one car I'm not talking about a school car, one car,
Speaker 1: trying to make a living for his family, and Michael
Speaker 1: was trying to shake him down. David called me, and
Speaker 1: it was on the same day they were burying Jia
Speaker 1: and I I called Michael. Michael sold that I'm Whisker Boulevard,
Speaker 1: ah the Worser Corridor at the time. I said, Michael,
Speaker 1: this is LORI, what the hell you think you're doing
Speaker 1: with this kid. I said, this kid who was with
Speaker 1: me lay off him or were coming from the same mold. No, Michael,
Speaker 1: you broke that mold. Michael, you broke that molde long ago.
Speaker 1: Stay away from this kid, he says, he's with me
Speaker 1: as you understands. Yeah or okay, I says, And Michael,
Speaker 1: the other thing you want to talk so much, Why
Speaker 1: aren't you at the funeral of your sister. They're burying
Speaker 1: her right now. Is we're on the phone. Why aren't
Speaker 1: you there? My sister passed away and went back to
Speaker 1: New York. I mean, family is supposed to be family.
Speaker 1: I think Michael, maybe subconsciously. I'm not a psychiatrist. I
Speaker 1: don't know. Because of the fact that he's not blooded
Speaker 1: Si Franchise, that could be a difference. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't have those answers. Uh. You know his brother John,
Speaker 1: who I've done many things for. He says that I would.
Speaker 1: I never dealt drug with John franc Ai. Never. John
Speaker 1: franch A was a drunkide. There must be maybe all right,
Speaker 1: sevent to a hundred drug dealers in Los Angeles that
Speaker 1: I had to go to that keep them away from
Speaker 1: John Franchi when he lived out here, you know, speaking
Speaker 1: to John Fry says, you know, Michael made an accusation
Speaker 1: on Lash show also that he suspects that you may
Speaker 1: be the one to put his brother on drugs. It's funny, Michael,
Speaker 1: why don't you Johnny was a drug addict long before
Speaker 1: he came to California. Michael knows. That's a lie. I
Speaker 1: never but Johnny and drug. Was I ever involved in druge? Folks? Yes?
Speaker 1: I was never co came I did. You don't just
Speaker 1: to have several hundred pounds of marijuana going to New
Speaker 1: York every few weeks, yeah, I admit to that. That
Speaker 1: was back in early nine dies. Uh with all this
Speaker 1: going on, man, like this back and forth, like James said,
Speaker 1: you know, you would have thought, like just mafia traditions,
Speaker 1: they would have took care of the guy, you know,
Speaker 1: for doing all the things he said, and he also
Speaker 1: made um and he also refuted something else that you
Speaker 1: see it. He said that his dad never put a
Speaker 1: hit on you. Did dad never put a hit on me?
Speaker 1: I also had the court transpress at all and reference
Speaker 1: to that too. Okay, but you know what, being a man,
Speaker 1: you had to face out and understand what was the
Speaker 1: reality of Whitest. Sonny approved a hit on each spadal.
Speaker 1: It all came from another informant named Guy fit Battle,
Speaker 1: who tapes had over four hundred and fifty tapes of Sunny,
Speaker 1: Frank J and Michael A guy for thought it was
Speaker 1: out there, and Sonny told me he wanted me to
Speaker 1: introduce him. The Johnny unknownst to me at that time.
Speaker 1: He and Johnny already knew each other. They were both
Speaker 1: confidential informants. I didn't know it, but I had had
Speaker 1: you're making boy that I took care of. His name
Speaker 1: was Ricky. He got arrested. I was helping him. His
Speaker 1: wife came to my house with too Megican that Mike
Speaker 1: did he owe a half a million to The money
Speaker 1: was on the streets in Brooklyn. I knew the guys
Speaker 1: who had the money. I called him up. They said, already,
Speaker 1: we already got on your grant. Ricky didn't understand it.
Speaker 1: You know, we're converted and it's gonna take longer, but
Speaker 1: we got a hundred grand. The informer had the money
Speaker 1: picked up and sound half to me, and that's all
Speaker 1: the money I ever saw from it. Later I found
Speaker 1: out that it was the FBI and guy for thought
Speaker 1: of the informant that got that money. They collected the
Speaker 1: rest of the money. It just sounded me like everybody
Speaker 1: was greedy. Everybody had their hands in the cookie jar. Everybody.
Speaker 1: And then when and and me and like a lot
Speaker 1: of other people that watched MARFIW movies. You just see,
Speaker 1: I mean co heartedness didn't have a problem with killing. Uh.
Speaker 1: They took care of their families. Uh, it didn't matter.
Speaker 1: And this is the impression I was under. It didn't
Speaker 1: matter if you was my son or not. A rat
Speaker 1: was a rat. And and I'm I'm if they come
Speaker 1: and say I gotta hit you because your son did
Speaker 1: this and he going the quarter YadA yata, don't you
Speaker 1: think he's all the thistions should have been? You know
Speaker 1: you said the magic word, James. All Right, movies, what
Speaker 1: you're seeing the movies and what's real life are two
Speaker 1: different things. Okay, the movies they gotta make things, and
Speaker 1: they're all saying in Hollywood, they gotta make a film.
Speaker 1: The Middle America's gonna watch, all right, and so you
Speaker 1: have all those things. That's all creative stuff by writers.
Speaker 1: Are very good writers that come up with that stuff.
Speaker 1: You know, Nick Polegie is a dear friend of mine,
Speaker 1: and he did Good Fellows Casino, and you know, he
Speaker 1: and I have had a lot of conversations. How you know,
Speaker 1: all the conversations he had with Rosenthal for Casino and
Speaker 1: Henry Hill for a Good Fellows and uh, you know,
Speaker 1: they gotta take that there. And sometimes there's a book,
Speaker 1: they gotta take the book. And now you've got to
Speaker 1: creative film about it. You gotta take something that might
Speaker 1: be a boring sudger, and you've got to create that lure,
Speaker 1: lure of killings and hits and all this year. But
Speaker 1: getting back to where Sonny approved the Hemi whack, this
Speaker 1: informant went back to New York told Michael Catto Ponto,
Speaker 1: who was an acting captain of the Come On with
Speaker 1: Family who hadn't to be Sonny's nephew, that we're they're
Speaker 1: going to make all this money with Ori. Now all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, it's Ore that's going to be doing
Speaker 1: fifty kills every couple of weeks, and the New York
Speaker 1: and they're going back and east. Michael caught upon all
Speaker 1: the money that they're going to make with Ori. Of course,
Speaker 1: every time you start it, it's on tape. So Michael
Speaker 1: catt Uponto at the time is getting nervous and words
Speaker 1: his money the worse ought to be making with Lori
Speaker 1: and Guy Fitado. The informant says, you know, I think
Speaker 1: he's been doing the deal and he's screwing us out
Speaker 1: of the money. Michael went to Sunny and Sunny gave
Speaker 1: him hermission to white men. Of course, I'm still here,
Speaker 1: and my last words was Sunny while in prison, was
Speaker 1: in the courtroom because Sunny was on on bail. I
Speaker 1: didn't get bill. Sunny was on on Bill. You want
Speaker 1: in the court rooms anybody? I hear you're upset with me.
Speaker 1: Now he's standing in front of me. I'm already sitting
Speaker 1: down at the table with the other courty round. I said, no, not,
Speaker 1: I said, with your buddy. Why just because you gave
Speaker 1: permission to white men, I should want to sit with
Speaker 1: your bunny. For is the fact they used to call
Speaker 1: me and asked me coming in New York to have dinner.
Speaker 1: But you never called me that asked me what's really
Speaker 1: going on here, which could have if anybody worked too,
Speaker 1: would have jeopardized my life. Quite obviously. That situation was
Speaker 1: resolved ultimately what occurred. Michael Cotta Potto never called me,
Speaker 1: and I never discussed things with Michael Cato Ponto. If
Speaker 1: I discussed anything in the Clumbu crime family with anybody
Speaker 1: was only one person, Sunny franchise. So that's what he
Speaker 1: called the Hito. Yeah, so that was that was used
Speaker 1: the lucky man at that point. Well, Michael Cato Ponto
Speaker 1: ended up getting indicted on a cocaine conspiracy. He got
Speaker 1: seventy eight months. But don't somebody else pick up to
Speaker 1: hit if if if this person is out of commission,
Speaker 1: you're not gonna whack a guy who did nothing. There
Speaker 1: was no reason I didn't do nothing. I wasn't doing
Speaker 1: that cocaine thing. If I was doing that cocaine, think
Speaker 1: I'm still be in freaking prison. Let me ask you this,
Speaker 1: how do you prepare for you know, somebody want to
Speaker 1: take your life? You know, somebody could be come from
Speaker 1: any side of the building, from around the corner, jump
Speaker 1: out of a tree or whatever at you. How you
Speaker 1: prepare for that? Well? You know, as a young kid,
Speaker 1: I uh, I'm a marine. Tim Or Curry, he taught
Speaker 1: me I would always know my surroundings and to this day,
Speaker 1: I as I walk as I drive, I know what's
Speaker 1: behind the tree. And I don't just look behind the tree.
Speaker 1: I you gotta follow because somebody you could be walking
Speaker 1: on the tree. You gotta be happy behind the tree.
Speaker 1: But he could walk around that tree while you're walking
Speaker 1: by and come up behind it. So you gotta be
Speaker 1: aware of those things. You gotta watch out. It's a
Speaker 1: natural It's just a natural insect that you eventually developed. Uh.
Speaker 1: I'm talking about like like sleep, did you did you
Speaker 1: lose a lot of sleep? I'm talking about because I've
Speaker 1: been in situations where I couldn't sleep. I got I'm
Speaker 1: always looking out the window, like damn, I gotta do
Speaker 1: this though, And you just you, you just so pumped
Speaker 1: up because you know, at any given time something can happen. Well,
Speaker 1: you know, I seriously, I did not do anything that
Speaker 1: deserved being whacked. I never was concerned about it. I
Speaker 1: come fronted Michael Carrafnal in prison, and I'll tell you
Speaker 1: how that occurred and what happened there. Okay, because he's
Speaker 1: the one who win the ash for permission. Now you
Speaker 1: understand Shunny took his nephew like a Cardofnal's word that
Speaker 1: I would robbing money. Michael never called or Spadel. Why not?
Speaker 1: There's not one tape of me and Michael called Uponto
Speaker 1: discussing drugs. We were the only two I drug conspiracy.
Speaker 1: And then on the last superseding indictment that I just
Speaker 1: showed you, there was only one change amongst everybody on
Speaker 1: that indictment that was Oris Fadal because initially they indicted
Speaker 1: me for five keels of cocaine. On the last superseding
Speaker 1: indictment they increased it to the fifties. No, you know, James,
Speaker 1: where would I be if I got it? I went
Speaker 1: to trial on that there, I guess you would lose
Speaker 1: no matter what, even though it wasn't a real deal.
Speaker 1: I never had no intention because these Mexicans had to
Speaker 1: be paid back. They're half a million before they were
Speaker 1: going to give anything to anybody else. I greet it.
Speaker 1: I mean fifty killers, even though there was a whole
Speaker 1: lot of money. And do you think they're going to
Speaker 1: give fifty kiels and credit for you to bring back
Speaker 1: to New York. It seems like a whole bunch of betrayal,
Speaker 1: and just a whole bunch of betrayal. And there was
Speaker 1: more betrayal and cunniness. There was an awful lot of
Speaker 1: round funny franchise and Michael franchised. Michael mack Franchise said,
Speaker 1: there's a video out there about me, and he thinks
Speaker 1: that I was a rat. I'd like to address that video.
Speaker 1: That video was also made by another informant, but it
Speaker 1: goes by the name of Kenji Galo. His real name
Speaker 1: is Kenny Knel. He robbed the tape out of Jimmy
Speaker 1: Conchi's home because I was taping the FBI. Anybody listened
Speaker 1: to that day, you see that I'm the one doing
Speaker 1: the recording. That was a fatal mistake that I did.
Speaker 1: That's the reason, if you want to really get down
Speaker 1: to it, why I ended up on that Columbo Crime
Speaker 1: Family indictment. Because they only need to predicate acts they
Speaker 1: get you. I am responsible for the agent. His initials
Speaker 1: are seg getting demoted from the FBI uh Organized Crime
Speaker 1: Task Force, and they put him on the Fugitive Squad.
Speaker 1: And honestly, he owes me a favor because he got
Speaker 1: a nod and notoriety. Today he's ahead of the fugitive
Speaker 1: Squad and he's the guy that they give credit for
Speaker 1: getting Whitey Bulger oh wow, So nor will finish something, Michael.
Speaker 1: I know for a fact that that agent, along with
Speaker 1: Michael Wax, Andy Stefanix Paranas, and a few others, used
Speaker 1: to go to your home and have dinner. I never
Speaker 1: had an FBI agent in my home. I haven't dinner
Speaker 1: with me. Michael. You're the only person that I know
Speaker 1: or do I know that information because you invited your
Speaker 1: brother to the house, and your brother used to tell
Speaker 1: me everything. So after tonight, I want to leave Michael
Speaker 1: franchise alone. I don't want nothing to do with him
Speaker 1: because he is not worth my time. But Michael, if
Speaker 1: you want to meet me and you want to have
Speaker 1: a joint interview, I am more than willing to do it.
Speaker 1: We will pick any social club in Brooklyn. I think
Speaker 1: that would be a great place. Michael. Would you like
Speaker 1: to come to Brooklyn with me? Michael, if you're doing
Speaker 1: in Brooklyn digital soapber, do it. Don't do it with
Speaker 1: nobody else. I've got people in Oh yeah, I already
Speaker 1: got your soapbox at do it. Yeah. We have the
Speaker 1: Gainst chronicles. Yeah, against the chronicles we had against chronicles
Speaker 1: we have we ever done in New York. Okay, Michael
Speaker 1: ain't gonna come to a social club in New York.
Speaker 1: What if you do, though, Oh great, then I'll do it.
Speaker 1: I look at it like this, playing simple and uncut. Y'all.
Speaker 1: Guys are way older than us, and y'all for this.
Speaker 1: This was a long long time ago, right what this? Yeah,
Speaker 1: during the time, during the time two thousand eight. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: that was years two years. And just like you said,
Speaker 1: let's just put it away. I'm done. I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: give you the credit. I'm not gonna speak on you
Speaker 1: no more. Don't you think it's time to just say
Speaker 1: I ain't got time for this ship no more. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because I got bigger things that I might play right
Speaker 1: now than Michael Franchi. Just no burger than me. No burger,
Speaker 1: no burger. Michael Franchisers would never anybody except for the
Speaker 1: fact that he would the stepson of Sunny Franchis. That's it.
Speaker 1: In his own life, he used the name Sonny. I
Speaker 1: look at it in his book. If you read his
Speaker 1: first book, there's only one good chapter in that book,
Speaker 1: and that's the chapter we talked about. I don't real
Speaker 1: I don't, I didn't. I didn't read none of it.
Speaker 1: I grew up watching the Mafia and all these big
Speaker 1: names on TV. Yeah. Uh, and I kind of like
Speaker 1: I'm enthused. I was just like, man, that's Dave straight Killers.
Speaker 1: I loved that type of ship. It would like that
Speaker 1: years ago. Okay, So then you sit at the table
Speaker 1: and and all my heroes a crush because they all
Speaker 1: like in jail from putting each other in jail. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, going back and forth warm with each other
Speaker 1: over twelve years, something that happened to al years. I'm like, man,
Speaker 1: do you understand that we're talking about something that Michael
Speaker 1: Frenchaise was never involved in if he goes right, but
Speaker 1: see if he never involved and he was involved with
Speaker 1: WD his name comes from all right, just because he
Speaker 1: was the son. Well it's coming up because he's the
Speaker 1: son and he had a lot of viewers. I get
Speaker 1: pretty He've been doing this for thirty years. I've been
Speaker 1: doing it for eight months. So you know, Lad's got
Speaker 1: four millions of subscribers, so good, a lot of meals
Speaker 1: for Flag. I made just mine a loan. I'm black
Speaker 1: got over half a million just that one thing about Michael.
Speaker 1: You know, I want to discuss my book. Yeah, we
Speaker 1: were gonna get to your book. But you know what,
Speaker 1: you cause a lot of controversy last time, man, because
Speaker 1: you know when you talked about the guy Haitian Jack,
Speaker 1: I don't another guy he called um, he called one
Speaker 1: of the guys that was on the show and then
Speaker 1: and had some words for us. He has some words
Speaker 1: for you, he said, he's gonna come out here and
Speaker 1: smash you. Well, Jack, I'm here. If you don't have
Speaker 1: the money, I'll buy you a ticket. I'm sure a
Speaker 1: kind of wife off to buy your wine. Okay, because
Speaker 1: they're still paying you off. Jack. For whatever reason, I'm
Speaker 1: not worried about Jake, Jack, Michael. These people really are
Speaker 1: nothing in my life. Hitian Jack was another individual I
Speaker 1: tried to help. I did not know either informant and
Speaker 1: then you know, when everybody found out, I'm the guy
Speaker 1: in Los Angeles that took all the fucking heat from
Speaker 1: all the guys because Jack, when he was in my
Speaker 1: name out here? Are you say he was in a formative? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Who they sued Jack to him, I had no idea.
Speaker 1: I mean I wasn't about They said something New York.
Speaker 1: He was working for the FBI. Okay that so he
Speaker 1: was back in New York. Now, I don't know where
Speaker 1: what it could have been out here. He tried to
Speaker 1: get close to a lot of people out here, but
Speaker 1: people didn't trust him. M Yeah, it caused the whole
Speaker 1: but he was pretty upset last time. He's pretty upset,
Speaker 1: he said. Or he Spader didn't run me out of nowhere. Yeah, okay, Jack, okay,
Speaker 1: this what's going on with your book? My book is
Speaker 1: doing very well. Uh. I've had a lot of issues
Speaker 1: from Hollywood. A lot of producers have approached me. Um
Speaker 1: having a major phone call this Friday, UM with an
Speaker 1: award winning producer director h Knowing Hollywood the way I do,
Speaker 1: I'm very selected when who are just not going to
Speaker 1: get my action or my rights to anybody? I know
Speaker 1: how long it takes. I'm so active in a few
Speaker 1: other films. I have another film coming out. It's not
Speaker 1: coming out yet, but it was in the process. I
Speaker 1: secured the deal for UH World Boxing Kickboxer, the one
Speaker 1: in Japan. It's got a gage, sir in him. Look
Speaker 1: got everything that you want, all the elements of this story.
Speaker 1: I got the people retaining Ah the writer who I manage,
Speaker 1: and UH. We got a couple of other films are
Speaker 1: in the works, and you know, Hollywood, it's like the army,
Speaker 1: hurry up and get there. When you get there awake,
Speaker 1: Yeah for sure. So where can people because the under
Speaker 1: the book has been I've been seeing you everywhere. You've
Speaker 1: been in a couple of promo tours. Where can people
Speaker 1: purchase the book at? They can purchase your ship Uh
Speaker 1: Amazon obviously. Uh. They like an autograph copy, they can
Speaker 1: go to my website www dot the Accidental Gangster dot com. Uh,
Speaker 1: they could order from Barnes and Noble, Google, h all
Speaker 1: the other platforms from my understanding. Man, that's been great. Man.
Speaker 1: Before we leave, Man, is there anything that you want
Speaker 1: to say to Sunny France season that you ever haven't
Speaker 1: see since this is the last time you see y'all
Speaker 1: going back and forth forth with this man Sunny franchise. Okay,
Speaker 1: And I talked to Sonny a week before he passed away.
Speaker 1: I was talking to Sunny on a weekly basis, and
Speaker 1: you know what hurts. I called because Sunny wanted me
Speaker 1: to go back. There was Sunny. He died on paper.
Speaker 1: He was still on paper, and I wanted to go
Speaker 1: visit him, but I was not going to be the
Speaker 1: person responsible for him to be violated. So I call
Speaker 1: this probation officer, who happened to be very nice, nice
Speaker 1: lady on Long Island, and she said, Mrs Spareng, gonna
Speaker 1: talk to my supervisor. I said, like it. He's a
Speaker 1: hundred three years old. I'm seventy five. We ain't doing nothing, okay,
Speaker 1: I said, he's just an old friend. I nor him
Speaker 1: over forty year and just go have a lunch. And
Speaker 1: she called me up to the next day. She talked
Speaker 1: to the supervisor and because of the fact that Sunny
Speaker 1: and I I've been friends for over forty years and
Speaker 1: we were on the same indictment, they told me to
Speaker 1: wait until June. Quite obviously, June is here, but Sonny
Speaker 1: is not. So if you got any last words from
Speaker 1: Michael and everybody out there that's rocking with Michael, what
Speaker 1: you got to tell him? Michael, look at you know.
Speaker 1: I don't know where your beef is with me, but
Speaker 1: I'm going to back everything I say up with facts,
Speaker 1: and you know it's what you come at me with
Speaker 1: bullshit and live Michael. I never reached out to you
Speaker 1: for anything, and I never would. I have no reason,
Speaker 1: but you reach out to me. Remember, Michael, your reach
Speaker 1: out to me when you were out of a prison
Speaker 1: because you were paranoid about any strangers coming into the tone. Remember, Michael,
Speaker 1: we had a meeting. I took you in the alley
Speaker 1: and behind the Wrangling Record Club and saying to Monica
Speaker 1: Bolivar and I told you, Michael, then if your father
Speaker 1: asked me to do it, I'll do it. Because you
Speaker 1: were asking me to let you know when any strangers
Speaker 1: flew in the town. I'm not a travel agent. But
Speaker 1: if Sonny would have told and you know what, Sonny
Speaker 1: words work. Our Sonny called me every week from prison,
Speaker 1: every prisoner that he was in. Son he says, don't
Speaker 1: do a damn thing. Michael. You didn't take care of
Speaker 1: your mother, your brother, your sisters. With all that money
Speaker 1: that you saw that you may you've got it hidden.
Speaker 1: You left your first wife and children. They had to
Speaker 1: go on welfare and food stamps. Michael, which build a
Speaker 1: pair of balls, get some character, become a man. Start
Speaker 1: taking care. I don't want nothing from you, but take
Speaker 1: care of your family the right way. Michael. Start bragging
Speaker 1: about that you were a couple. You were a couple
Speaker 1: for only one reason. Your father, John Sonny franchise that said, Michael,
Speaker 1: I don't want to mention your word. If you've got
Speaker 1: a serious beef with me, call me. You got my number.
Speaker 1: I ain't calling you Michael because I don't call That's hip, folks.
Speaker 1: Could we leave Michael franchise along and dead and Barry
Speaker 1: he should be? I would say that would be the
Speaker 1: best thing. I wouldn't do a blad interview on it.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't do against the Chronicle's interview on any more.
Speaker 1: I think, you know, how does Michael. By the way,
Speaker 1: Michael is a few years younger than me. I think
Speaker 1: he maybe really, I don't know, maybe sixty. I'm seventy five.
Speaker 1: Michael's in a six. Let's live with life. We have
Speaker 1: left in a positive on a positive note, and and
Speaker 1: and we don't have to go back and forthtand each
Speaker 1: other down over a situation. You over here, he's over there.
Speaker 1: Like you said, it's over and done and Gains. The
Speaker 1: Chronicles is done with the Michael conversation.