1 00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:03,960 Speaker 1: What's going on? I'm S. L. Jackson, author of the 2 00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:08,560 Speaker 1: award winning debut urban fantasy novel Animal Instincts The Urban Jungle. 3 00:00:08,840 --> 00:00:11,360 Speaker 1: Animal Instincts The Urban Jungle. Is it a collection of 4 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:14,040 Speaker 1: creative stories based on the lines of animals and the 5 00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:17,400 Speaker 1: urban underworld jungle. The stories are focused around the family 6 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:21,280 Speaker 1: are outlaw rabbits. So get to know these characters Leads, Jumps, Mamo, 7 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 1: Popa and Groovy by ordering your copy today at one 8 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:28,639 Speaker 1: s L. Jackson dot com. That's one s L. Jackson 9 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 1: dot com to order your copy of the award winning 10 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:38,000 Speaker 1: urban fantasy novel Animal Instincts The Urban Jungle. Boy. All right, 11 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 1: welcome to everybody to another episode of Against the Chronicles. 12 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 1: I'm James McDonald here with my host Big Still, and 13 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:50,680 Speaker 1: tonight we have a very special guest. We've had them 14 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:53,239 Speaker 1: on the show before, gentleman by the name of Ory 15 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:58,520 Speaker 1: Spade On. Hello, everybody, there's a pleasure to be here again. 16 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:02,640 Speaker 1: You're good to have you back again. And recently, um 17 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:05,320 Speaker 1: glad that started some controversy and I'm on his show 18 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 1: when he had the gentleman Michael Francaise and um Michael. 19 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:11,360 Speaker 1: For those out there that might have saw Michael had 20 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:17,200 Speaker 1: some rather despairing remarks, and if you don't mind, take 21 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:20,160 Speaker 1: a moment to correct him. The first thing I'd like 22 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:24,199 Speaker 1: to remark about is he said that he told Jack 23 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:29,280 Speaker 1: Siolardi to throw me off the office. Jack Jolari has 24 00:01:29,319 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 1: been a friend of mine for over forty year. No, 25 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 1: he did represent Michael franchise at one period of time, 26 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:41,880 Speaker 1: and that ended a few a few years ago, prior 27 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 1: to Jack's dying, when Jack got him a deal and 28 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:51,040 Speaker 1: got him a quarter of a million from a producer, 29 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 1: but he took the quarter a million cup it got 30 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 1: another quarter a million from another producer and went with 31 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 1: the other guy. New to say, nothing really happened from 32 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 1: the whole event anyway, But I want to clear that 33 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 1: up because I was at the church a Good Shepherd 34 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 1: where they had a service for Jack when he passed away, 35 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 1: of which I was invited to. I was invited to 36 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:25,239 Speaker 1: Paramount Studio. They had Joe Montaigne, they had Frankie Avalon 37 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 1: a whole school a celebrity, and there were several hundred 38 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:37,120 Speaker 1: people there. There was no Michael Frenchise. So Michael, get 39 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:42,920 Speaker 1: your story straight. I have no objection to anything you say, 40 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 1: but you know that I'm going to come back with 41 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:51,080 Speaker 1: the truth. Michael. Jack was a very dear friend of mine. 42 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:53,839 Speaker 1: He was your friend at one time too. But no, 43 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:57,160 Speaker 1: Jack never threw me out of the office. In fact, 44 00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:00,440 Speaker 1: I had somebody out of Jack's office for when he 45 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:03,800 Speaker 1: called one day. I want just cause who that person was. 46 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 1: But I did throw him out. Uh, so I want 47 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:12,399 Speaker 1: to correct that. In addition, you know Jack Seun calls 48 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:18,320 Speaker 1: me uncle, So where does he come off with this crap? 49 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:23,919 Speaker 1: The next day he says, he said that his father 50 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:29,120 Speaker 1: didn't know me. Well, I'm very confused with that there, Michael, 51 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:34,680 Speaker 1: because I have an indictment over here, a shoppersd indictment. 52 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 1: I'd like to show you, all right, And the indictment 53 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 1: began with a Comba frame and they were initially fourteen 54 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 1: but then we got severed off. Do you see Michael 55 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:50,480 Speaker 1: Franchise's name on that indictment plus his name on here? 56 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:56,720 Speaker 1: You don't see Michael Franchise. Are Sonny Franchise? John Sonny? Yeah? 57 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 1: John France says he also known that Sunny Francis Easy 58 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 1: Sean Capellino known as Johnny Cupp, Christopher Corona, Vic Joseph 59 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:11,840 Speaker 1: the Gorga, Angelo gi and Graham Day and Orlando Spader 60 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:14,600 Speaker 1: also known as Ari Spader. That's it right there, and 61 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:18,040 Speaker 1: there's no Michael Frank. Then the receipts rightdicul, I turn 62 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 1: this around. I turn its around real quick. Yeah, they 63 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:27,880 Speaker 1: were the receipts right there. So I didn't know, Sonny, 64 00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 1: Why was that in indictment on Michael? You should have 65 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:33,440 Speaker 1: told your friends at the FBI that I didn't know 66 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:35,680 Speaker 1: your father. Maybe I wouldn't have better than that indictment, 67 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:39,480 Speaker 1: but you know they know you're a liar. Offshow. No, 68 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 1: let me let me ask you this. I'm sorry, James, 69 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 1: so I cut you off, But let me ask you 70 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:47,120 Speaker 1: this though, Where does the conflict come from with you 71 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 1: and Michael Francisi? Like, like, what is this all about? There? 72 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 1: For that there, you're gonna have to read my book, 73 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:58,919 Speaker 1: The Accidental Gangster. It's in the book. Michael is a 74 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:02,039 Speaker 1: bleep in the book. My book is not about Michael 75 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:06,040 Speaker 1: Frank my bike. My book is about Ory Sprado and 76 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 1: my life. It's not about him. It's not about his 77 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:15,400 Speaker 1: stepfather or anybody but me. But it is in my book, 78 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:20,719 Speaker 1: and it takes uh. It's a result of a sit 79 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:23,599 Speaker 1: down that we had at the Russian Tea Room on 80 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:29,680 Speaker 1: fifty seventh Street in New York. And uh, you know, 81 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:32,560 Speaker 1: Michael Poe claims that he was a tough guy and 82 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 1: he was a couple. Let's talk about that. Michael was 83 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 1: never a street guy. Michael was never a tough guy. 84 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:47,360 Speaker 1: Michael was a son or stepson, and it's correct that 85 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:52,840 Speaker 1: he is his stepson a Sonny franchise. Michael's real name 86 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:56,720 Speaker 1: at birth was Grill. Michael was a one and a 87 00:05:56,760 --> 00:06:01,799 Speaker 1: half years old when Sonny met Tina Kappa bie uncle 88 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:09,719 Speaker 1: who was worked at the Store club in New York. So, yes, 89 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 1: Michael is a step son. He is not full blood 90 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 1: of Sonny franchise, but he had his name change. Sonny 91 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 1: did adopt him out there. We'll call Sonny his father 92 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:26,800 Speaker 1: because Sonny adopted him. Give him that credit. On the 93 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:29,159 Speaker 1: other hand, I also give Michael cruddy. Michael is a 94 00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:35,240 Speaker 1: very smart individual. Now. When he got made, that was 95 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:39,360 Speaker 1: only because of Sonny. When he became a couple, who 96 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:43,960 Speaker 1: was only because it's Sonny and Michael got very lucky 97 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:48,240 Speaker 1: and the guests link tax business and he made hundreds 98 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:52,520 Speaker 1: of millions of dollars. Now there's a big difference with 99 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 1: Sonny franchise and Michael Francais. The differences with Sonny you 100 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 1: make money. Sonny makes money. You could earn with Sonny franchise. 101 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:08,680 Speaker 1: Michael franchise. I don't know if anybody, and there's somebody 102 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:10,920 Speaker 1: out there, there's very money with Michael, let me know. 103 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:16,480 Speaker 1: But Michael, once he takes money, you could versely count 104 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 1: that money being dead because it never appeared again, and 105 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 1: he don't give anything back. So by not sharing or 106 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 1: giving what you should have bringing bride or whatever you 107 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 1: want to call it, by him being made, he didn't 108 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:33,360 Speaker 1: have to worry about nobody bothering him or to worry. Uh. 109 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 1: From my understanding to this day, Michael was still very concerned. Uh, 110 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 1: you know, Michael, you're supposed to pull out of pictures. 111 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:45,360 Speaker 1: He saw his father twice and thirty too much when 112 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:48,760 Speaker 1: Sonny was in the nursing home, and then on one 113 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:52,440 Speaker 1: occasion Michael didn't go, but he sent his lawyers there 114 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 1: to try to get Sonny to sign over Sonny's rights 115 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 1: to Michael. Michael was no dummy. I mean, Sunny was 116 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 1: no dummy. Sunny was a very smart guy. He threw 117 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:07,040 Speaker 1: him off. He didn't sign. He didn't sign the rights. 118 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 1: You know you heard me on another podcast. I happen 119 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 1: to know the lawyer who put the money in Panama 120 00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:18,680 Speaker 1: for Michael franchise. I gave his initial on the lad 121 00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:23,400 Speaker 1: interview because he's still alive. Uh. And I don't want 122 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:25,680 Speaker 1: to get him involved in anything, but Michael knows who 123 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:30,600 Speaker 1: it is. All the people that were around who were 124 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:37,600 Speaker 1: to protect Michael franchise were put there by Sonny Michael, 125 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:41,440 Speaker 1: and he worked ahead to be done. It was Sonny 126 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:49,160 Speaker 1: who took care of it, not Michael. Uh. I became 127 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:52,959 Speaker 1: very close with Sonny. As people know. People in New 128 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:56,120 Speaker 1: York know it. I could pick up the phone and 129 00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 1: I could still call people in New York. Michael can't 130 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:01,959 Speaker 1: do it. Michael can't call the people that I talked to. 131 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:12,760 Speaker 1: Michael says they didn't know his father. Uh. Michael. Michael's brother, Johnny, 132 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:20,960 Speaker 1: with Sonny's really real son became an informant world wire 133 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 1: against his father's Sonny, me and several others. And I 134 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:35,800 Speaker 1: have had a court transcript of and I'll read you 135 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:38,560 Speaker 1: a part of it here and then I'll give it all. Right, 136 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 1: I'm crossing in gamin ation. Mr franchise. Are you familiar 137 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 1: with the individual name Orlando Spatto, Yes, I am. How 138 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:51,920 Speaker 1: do you know him? He was a friend of my 139 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:56,040 Speaker 1: father's back in the seventies. Is he involved in the 140 00:09:56,120 --> 00:10:01,720 Speaker 1: Colombo Prime family? Yes, your son, that's your son, that's 141 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:06,079 Speaker 1: his real son on the witness stand in court. So 142 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:13,000 Speaker 1: Michael gets a fucking straight could I say fun? Michael, 143 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:16,800 Speaker 1: I must have had over a hundred phone calls of 144 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:22,120 Speaker 1: people telling me you lie, You lie every time you 145 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:26,960 Speaker 1: open your mouth. Your brother, Johnny, was an addict, became 146 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:30,360 Speaker 1: an infeign. But I give Johnny a lot more credit, 147 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 1: not that they have any respect for him, but I 148 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:38,200 Speaker 1: give Johnny credit because he had the guts to get 149 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 1: on a witness stand, point his finger and talk. You 150 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:48,319 Speaker 1: don't have those kind of guts, Michael. Michael, you talked 151 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:52,440 Speaker 1: about when you took the oath. I never took the oath. 152 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:55,440 Speaker 1: I refused it tool twice, once on the West Coast, 153 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:58,280 Speaker 1: once on the Eage coast. But I bide it by 154 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:02,320 Speaker 1: those rules all my life because I know what they are. 155 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:07,000 Speaker 1: You talked about how you were brothers to all these guys. 156 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 1: Michael Herr is part of a proper statement. That's been 157 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:16,439 Speaker 1: following Michael all right, by Michael franchise and on this 158 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:21,640 Speaker 1: particular proper statement, Michael, you give the names of Jimmy, Angelina, 159 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:28,480 Speaker 1: Sally Mesca, Courtsca. I can't even say Mrs ms Shada, 160 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:34,120 Speaker 1: Johnny Minerva, Jerry Brown and Vito Google. That's five days, Michael. 161 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:39,120 Speaker 1: You gave the information to the FBI. Five people that 162 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:42,480 Speaker 1: got made at the same time that you did. That's 163 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:44,880 Speaker 1: a no. No. You want to tell me you're not 164 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:51,560 Speaker 1: in informat Michael. What about John Marshall? Remember John Marshall 165 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:54,080 Speaker 1: at the flea market that you had on a long island. 166 00:11:55,280 --> 00:12:00,240 Speaker 1: You informed against him, you proffered and for your pet. Well, 167 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:04,440 Speaker 1: you do not know understand what a profer agreement is. 168 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:08,800 Speaker 1: I'd like to explain it. A proper agreement is when 169 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 1: you have made a deal with the FBI and the 170 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:19,080 Speaker 1: U S Attorney for lesser time and all sorts of 171 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:22,040 Speaker 1: deal they allow you to keep money. Sometimes all sorts 172 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:24,640 Speaker 1: of deals are made. Once that deal is made, you 173 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:29,079 Speaker 1: sit down with the FBI and the U. S. Attorney 174 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:32,120 Speaker 1: And it's not like you sit down for fifteen minutes. 175 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:34,960 Speaker 1: He see you go on for days where you have 176 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 1: to mention it and talk about every single person that 177 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:44,320 Speaker 1: you know. So you might say that you know, I 178 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:49,280 Speaker 1: know John Doe who lives over in Long Beach and 179 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:55,360 Speaker 1: he's a made guy, and John I hear deals drugs. 180 00:12:57,040 --> 00:13:01,240 Speaker 1: What that information does is gives the e I the 181 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:08,679 Speaker 1: information to begin an investigation on that individual, and they 182 00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:12,480 Speaker 1: when the FBI investigate, they eventually give you get you. 183 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 1: In addition, it was on national TV while he Michael 184 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:25,599 Speaker 1: did take the stand against Norby Walters. I think you 185 00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:27,679 Speaker 1: all know Norby Walters. He was very big in the 186 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:33,600 Speaker 1: music business. He was Norby Walters and then he got 187 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:36,320 Speaker 1: to be a sports agent. In addition, and him and 188 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:40,280 Speaker 1: Michael were working together. Michael informed on him in the 189 00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:47,720 Speaker 1: courtroom in Chicago. Uh. In addition, there are over fifty 190 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 1: over fifty individuals names that Michael gave to the FBI 191 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:58,320 Speaker 1: and the U S attorney talent exactly who everybody was, 192 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:02,800 Speaker 1: and the Colombio fanly and other families in the New 193 00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:06,800 Speaker 1: York area. So why is why? I mean, when you 194 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:12,280 Speaker 1: hear about the mafia, you will see thorough when you 195 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 1: hear he read it or I don't like rats, How 196 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:19,040 Speaker 1: do Marveda put it? Why is he still alive. Why 197 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:22,520 Speaker 1: why That's a very good question, James, and allowed me 198 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:28,280 Speaker 1: to answer that once again. His father's Sonny franchise. Sonny 199 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:31,960 Speaker 1: was the underball start Coloma crime family, and Sonny was 200 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:38,880 Speaker 1: very powerful individual up until the time that you know, 201 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:44,200 Speaker 1: Michael became an informant. And from what I was told, 202 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:50,040 Speaker 1: Michael paid off a million dollars in cash UH to 203 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:55,040 Speaker 1: a lot of people, five people. Michael was not allowed 204 00:14:55,080 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 1: to go back to New York. And as Michael his mother, 205 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:04,120 Speaker 1: you should tell me that she used to say, when 206 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 1: Sunny dies, Michael will die. She told me that several times. 207 00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:15,240 Speaker 1: She told other people that there. Tina died shortly after 208 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:18,360 Speaker 1: we were all in court and in Brooklyn. She died 209 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:29,080 Speaker 1: at cancer, Michael. That was Michael's real mother, Tina. She 210 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:34,680 Speaker 1: died broke and from my understanding, they had to bury 211 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 1: her in her hospital gown. And while she was dying 212 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:44,280 Speaker 1: at cancer, she was calling Michael, Michael, you promise you 213 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:47,360 Speaker 1: come to see me. Michael never went to see her, 214 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 1: so he that was his mother. So are you saying 215 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 1: he never wanted to go see his mother that was 216 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:59,880 Speaker 1: passing away, she was dying, She died dying at cancer. 217 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:07,280 Speaker 1: He didn't go back. Look at look at if you 218 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:10,240 Speaker 1: would look at all the things that's going on or 219 00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:14,280 Speaker 1: in in in your life, with all of this ship 220 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:18,400 Speaker 1: going back and forth and people speaking and dropping dimes 221 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:21,240 Speaker 1: on each other. Do you think that that's one of 222 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:23,360 Speaker 1: the reasons why he didn't go back because he knew 223 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:26,800 Speaker 1: he's in a serious situation. He knows because he never 224 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:30,560 Speaker 1: knows who is going to be that person to myke 225 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 1: pop up and want to make his ball. She did, 226 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:38,760 Speaker 1: so could you understand why? And then again, on the 227 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:45,800 Speaker 1: other hand, Michael has been doing podcasts and interviews for 228 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:51,840 Speaker 1: thirty years. He has a big Christian that's a good scam. 229 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:55,200 Speaker 1: I gotta give him credit there. Now. He claims he's 230 00:16:55,240 --> 00:17:00,320 Speaker 1: a born again Christian and he teaches the Bible. But 231 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:03,640 Speaker 1: the basic cust is he sells his books when he 232 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:07,800 Speaker 1: goes around the country, but not New York City. He'll 233 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:10,280 Speaker 1: go to state in New York. I know wherever he is. 234 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 1: Everybody knows where Michael was. Michael was basically a public figure. 235 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:17,679 Speaker 1: So to take down a public figure that could be 236 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:21,560 Speaker 1: on the minds of people too. This is not like 237 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:26,000 Speaker 1: in the old days when I Michael, you know, beside 238 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 1: your father. I knew Frank Costello, Russell Buffalino, I'll calin Marcello, 239 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:33,920 Speaker 1: Mayer Landskip, I can go on Michael all right, And 240 00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:36,200 Speaker 1: I could direct dial any one of them any time 241 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:39,080 Speaker 1: I wanted to those I knew all those people before. 242 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:42,399 Speaker 1: I know Sunny. But back in those days, this and 243 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:45,800 Speaker 1: never would have happened, just would have been put away 244 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:50,160 Speaker 1: already and there'll be no discussions about it. But times 245 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:56,840 Speaker 1: have changed, and they changed much quite often. You read 246 00:17:57,080 --> 00:18:00,480 Speaker 1: the proper agreement, do you understand there is this is 247 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:04,640 Speaker 1: just one page of several pages of a proper agreement 248 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:09,639 Speaker 1: which should been held under lock and key, because that 249 00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:15,000 Speaker 1: information it's leaked out somehow at somebody's trial, and that's 250 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:17,800 Speaker 1: how this should come out. And that's how slowly but 251 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:23,360 Speaker 1: surely all this information will come out, because that's called discovery, 252 00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:25,720 Speaker 1: and they had to bring it out when these people 253 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:28,720 Speaker 1: vot to court or vote a trial. Yeah, were from 254 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:30,800 Speaker 1: me with discovery. Let me ask you this, U, you 255 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:34,520 Speaker 1: say it's something earlier. Don't you think it's a possibility 256 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:37,000 Speaker 1: he could really be a born again Christian? Like why 257 00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:40,080 Speaker 1: why do you say it's a scam? Because he was 258 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:44,800 Speaker 1: really a born a King Christian. Why is he talking 259 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:48,560 Speaker 1: about criminal activity all the time? All right, he's supposed 260 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:52,680 Speaker 1: to be an expert on it. Michael never did, no, 261 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:55,520 Speaker 1: or you know, I'm not disputing you enough, or I'm 262 00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:57,399 Speaker 1: gonna asking that question, cause I'm pretty sure people have 263 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:02,439 Speaker 1: that question and say, well, maybe he did. Maybe. The 264 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:07,959 Speaker 1: reason I don't believe it because when his sister, Jia 265 00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:12,399 Speaker 1: passed away. Jia also died of an overdose at a 266 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:20,360 Speaker 1: hotel in uh Florida, and Sonny was in uh St. Petersburg, 267 00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:26,040 Speaker 1: Virginia at the time doing time, but the marshals took 268 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:31,120 Speaker 1: him to go to the funeral of his daughter. At 269 00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 1: the same time, a friend of mine named David called 270 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:37,600 Speaker 1: me and had a friend who was a limousine driver 271 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:41,640 Speaker 1: one car I'm not talking about a school car, one car, 272 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:45,880 Speaker 1: trying to make a living for his family, and Michael 273 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 1: was trying to shake him down. David called me, and 274 00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:55,479 Speaker 1: it was on the same day they were burying Jia 275 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:04,680 Speaker 1: and I I called Michael. Michael sold that I'm Whisker Boulevard, 276 00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:11,439 Speaker 1: ah the Worser Corridor at the time. I said, Michael, 277 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:14,680 Speaker 1: this is LORI, what the hell you think you're doing 278 00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:16,919 Speaker 1: with this kid. I said, this kid who was with 279 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:22,800 Speaker 1: me lay off him or were coming from the same mold. No, Michael, 280 00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:26,720 Speaker 1: you broke that mold. Michael, you broke that molde long ago. 281 00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:31,119 Speaker 1: Stay away from this kid, he says, he's with me 282 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:37,080 Speaker 1: as you understands. Yeah or okay, I says, And Michael, 283 00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:41,040 Speaker 1: the other thing you want to talk so much, Why 284 00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:44,720 Speaker 1: aren't you at the funeral of your sister. They're burying 285 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:48,760 Speaker 1: her right now. Is we're on the phone. Why aren't 286 00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:52,159 Speaker 1: you there? My sister passed away and went back to 287 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:58,800 Speaker 1: New York. I mean, family is supposed to be family. 288 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:04,560 Speaker 1: I think Michael, maybe subconsciously. I'm not a psychiatrist. I 289 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:09,200 Speaker 1: don't know. Because of the fact that he's not blooded 290 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:14,000 Speaker 1: Si Franchise, that could be a difference. I don't know. 291 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:20,640 Speaker 1: I don't have those answers. Uh. You know his brother John, 292 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:24,800 Speaker 1: who I've done many things for. He says that I would. 293 00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:28,440 Speaker 1: I never dealt drug with John franc Ai. Never. John 294 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:32,440 Speaker 1: franch A was a drunkide. There must be maybe all right, 295 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:37,359 Speaker 1: sevent to a hundred drug dealers in Los Angeles that 296 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:39,879 Speaker 1: I had to go to that keep them away from 297 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:42,520 Speaker 1: John Franchi when he lived out here, you know, speaking 298 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:46,880 Speaker 1: to John Fry says, you know, Michael made an accusation 299 00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:49,280 Speaker 1: on Lash show also that he suspects that you may 300 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:52,240 Speaker 1: be the one to put his brother on drugs. It's funny, Michael, 301 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:55,200 Speaker 1: why don't you Johnny was a drug addict long before 302 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:59,639 Speaker 1: he came to California. Michael knows. That's a lie. I 303 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:04,320 Speaker 1: never but Johnny and drug. Was I ever involved in druge? Folks? Yes? 304 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:10,280 Speaker 1: I was never co came I did. You don't just 305 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:12,800 Speaker 1: to have several hundred pounds of marijuana going to New 306 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:17,240 Speaker 1: York every few weeks, yeah, I admit to that. That 307 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:22,840 Speaker 1: was back in early nine dies. Uh with all this 308 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:25,679 Speaker 1: going on, man, like this back and forth, like James said, 309 00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:29,320 Speaker 1: you know, you would have thought, like just mafia traditions, 310 00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:30,760 Speaker 1: they would have took care of the guy, you know, 311 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:33,080 Speaker 1: for doing all the things he said, and he also 312 00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:36,159 Speaker 1: made um and he also refuted something else that you 313 00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:39,600 Speaker 1: see it. He said that his dad never put a 314 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:42,520 Speaker 1: hit on you. Did dad never put a hit on me? 315 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:47,000 Speaker 1: I also had the court transpress at all and reference 316 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:52,959 Speaker 1: to that too. Okay, but you know what, being a man, 317 00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:56,679 Speaker 1: you had to face out and understand what was the 318 00:22:56,720 --> 00:23:00,720 Speaker 1: reality of Whitest. Sonny approved a hit on each spadal. 319 00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 1: It all came from another informant named Guy fit Battle, 320 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:14,359 Speaker 1: who tapes had over four hundred and fifty tapes of Sunny, 321 00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:19,159 Speaker 1: Frank J and Michael A guy for thought it was 322 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:23,639 Speaker 1: out there, and Sonny told me he wanted me to 323 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:27,680 Speaker 1: introduce him. The Johnny unknownst to me at that time. 324 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:31,280 Speaker 1: He and Johnny already knew each other. They were both 325 00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:36,199 Speaker 1: confidential informants. I didn't know it, but I had had 326 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:40,120 Speaker 1: you're making boy that I took care of. His name 327 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:44,240 Speaker 1: was Ricky. He got arrested. I was helping him. His 328 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:47,280 Speaker 1: wife came to my house with too Megican that Mike 329 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:50,240 Speaker 1: did he owe a half a million to The money 330 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:53,400 Speaker 1: was on the streets in Brooklyn. I knew the guys 331 00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:56,040 Speaker 1: who had the money. I called him up. They said, already, 332 00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:59,600 Speaker 1: we already got on your grant. Ricky didn't understand it. 333 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:04,159 Speaker 1: You know, we're converted and it's gonna take longer, but 334 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:06,480 Speaker 1: we got a hundred grand. The informer had the money 335 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:08,800 Speaker 1: picked up and sound half to me, and that's all 336 00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:12,160 Speaker 1: the money I ever saw from it. Later I found 337 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:15,200 Speaker 1: out that it was the FBI and guy for thought 338 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:18,000 Speaker 1: of the informant that got that money. They collected the 339 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:21,600 Speaker 1: rest of the money. It just sounded me like everybody 340 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:24,960 Speaker 1: was greedy. Everybody had their hands in the cookie jar. Everybody. 341 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:28,960 Speaker 1: And then when and and me and like a lot 342 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:34,120 Speaker 1: of other people that watched MARFIW movies. You just see, 343 00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:39,760 Speaker 1: I mean co heartedness didn't have a problem with killing. Uh. 344 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,960 Speaker 1: They took care of their families. Uh, it didn't matter. 345 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:47,359 Speaker 1: And this is the impression I was under. It didn't 346 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:50,040 Speaker 1: matter if you was my son or not. A rat 347 00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:54,680 Speaker 1: was a rat. And and I'm I'm if they come 348 00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:57,240 Speaker 1: and say I gotta hit you because your son did 349 00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:01,600 Speaker 1: this and he going the quarter YadA yata, don't you 350 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:03,840 Speaker 1: think he's all the thistions should have been? You know 351 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:09,080 Speaker 1: you said the magic word, James. All Right, movies, what 352 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:12,000 Speaker 1: you're seeing the movies and what's real life are two 353 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:18,240 Speaker 1: different things. Okay, the movies they gotta make things, and 354 00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:20,760 Speaker 1: they're all saying in Hollywood, they gotta make a film. 355 00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:26,199 Speaker 1: The Middle America's gonna watch, all right, and so you 356 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:30,320 Speaker 1: have all those things. That's all creative stuff by writers. 357 00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:33,479 Speaker 1: Are very good writers that come up with that stuff. 358 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:36,280 Speaker 1: You know, Nick Polegie is a dear friend of mine, 359 00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:40,200 Speaker 1: and he did Good Fellows Casino, and you know, he 360 00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:44,000 Speaker 1: and I have had a lot of conversations. How you know, 361 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:48,359 Speaker 1: all the conversations he had with Rosenthal for Casino and 362 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:54,320 Speaker 1: Henry Hill for a Good Fellows and uh, you know, 363 00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:57,240 Speaker 1: they gotta take that there. And sometimes there's a book, 364 00:25:57,280 --> 00:25:59,280 Speaker 1: they gotta take the book. And now you've got to 365 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:02,840 Speaker 1: creative film about it. You gotta take something that might 366 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:07,879 Speaker 1: be a boring sudger, and you've got to create that lure, 367 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:13,199 Speaker 1: lure of killings and hits and all this year. But 368 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:21,560 Speaker 1: getting back to where Sonny approved the Hemi whack, this 369 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:25,280 Speaker 1: informant went back to New York told Michael Catto Ponto, 370 00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:27,359 Speaker 1: who was an acting captain of the Come On with 371 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:31,960 Speaker 1: Family who hadn't to be Sonny's nephew, that we're they're 372 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,880 Speaker 1: going to make all this money with Ori. Now all 373 00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:37,320 Speaker 1: of a sudden, it's Ore that's going to be doing 374 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:41,560 Speaker 1: fifty kills every couple of weeks, and the New York 375 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:47,000 Speaker 1: and they're going back and east. Michael caught upon all 376 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:50,200 Speaker 1: the money that they're going to make with Ori. Of course, 377 00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:55,199 Speaker 1: every time you start it, it's on tape. So Michael 378 00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:58,959 Speaker 1: catt Uponto at the time is getting nervous and words 379 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:01,200 Speaker 1: his money the worse ought to be making with Lori 380 00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:06,200 Speaker 1: and Guy Fitado. The informant says, you know, I think 381 00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 1: he's been doing the deal and he's screwing us out 382 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:15,000 Speaker 1: of the money. Michael went to Sunny and Sunny gave 383 00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:19,080 Speaker 1: him hermission to white men. Of course, I'm still here, 384 00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:27,399 Speaker 1: and my last words was Sunny while in prison, was 385 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:30,960 Speaker 1: in the courtroom because Sunny was on on bail. I 386 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:36,040 Speaker 1: didn't get bill. Sunny was on on Bill. You want 387 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:39,119 Speaker 1: in the court rooms anybody? I hear you're upset with me. 388 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:42,080 Speaker 1: Now he's standing in front of me. I'm already sitting 389 00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:46,800 Speaker 1: down at the table with the other courty round. I said, no, not, 390 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:50,200 Speaker 1: I said, with your buddy. Why just because you gave 391 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:52,720 Speaker 1: permission to white men, I should want to sit with 392 00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:56,040 Speaker 1: your bunny. For is the fact they used to call 393 00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:58,439 Speaker 1: me and asked me coming in New York to have dinner. 394 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:02,800 Speaker 1: But you never called me that asked me what's really 395 00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:08,119 Speaker 1: going on here, which could have if anybody worked too, 396 00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:14,040 Speaker 1: would have jeopardized my life. Quite obviously. That situation was 397 00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:19,840 Speaker 1: resolved ultimately what occurred. Michael Cotta Potto never called me, 398 00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:25,240 Speaker 1: and I never discussed things with Michael Cato Ponto. If 399 00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:29,080 Speaker 1: I discussed anything in the Clumbu crime family with anybody 400 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:33,600 Speaker 1: was only one person, Sunny franchise. So that's what he 401 00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:38,240 Speaker 1: called the Hito. Yeah, so that was that was used 402 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:42,000 Speaker 1: the lucky man at that point. Well, Michael Cato Ponto 403 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:48,440 Speaker 1: ended up getting indicted on a cocaine conspiracy. He got 404 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:51,360 Speaker 1: seventy eight months. But don't somebody else pick up to 405 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:54,120 Speaker 1: hit if if if this person is out of commission, 406 00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:58,640 Speaker 1: you're not gonna whack a guy who did nothing. There 407 00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,560 Speaker 1: was no reason I didn't do nothing. I wasn't doing 408 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:04,760 Speaker 1: that cocaine thing. If I was doing that cocaine, think 409 00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:07,400 Speaker 1: I'm still be in freaking prison. Let me ask you this, 410 00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:12,280 Speaker 1: how do you prepare for you know, somebody want to 411 00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:16,680 Speaker 1: take your life? You know, somebody could be come from 412 00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:21,040 Speaker 1: any side of the building, from around the corner, jump 413 00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:22,800 Speaker 1: out of a tree or whatever at you. How you 414 00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:26,080 Speaker 1: prepare for that? Well? You know, as a young kid, 415 00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:31,560 Speaker 1: I uh, I'm a marine. Tim Or Curry, he taught 416 00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:37,320 Speaker 1: me I would always know my surroundings and to this day, 417 00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:40,720 Speaker 1: I as I walk as I drive, I know what's 418 00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:43,800 Speaker 1: behind the tree. And I don't just look behind the tree. 419 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:47,320 Speaker 1: I you gotta follow because somebody you could be walking 420 00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:49,400 Speaker 1: on the tree. You gotta be happy behind the tree. 421 00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:53,000 Speaker 1: But he could walk around that tree while you're walking 422 00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:55,360 Speaker 1: by and come up behind it. So you gotta be 423 00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:59,080 Speaker 1: aware of those things. You gotta watch out. It's a 424 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:08,280 Speaker 1: natural It's just a natural insect that you eventually developed. Uh. 425 00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:11,720 Speaker 1: I'm talking about like like sleep, did you did you 426 00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:15,600 Speaker 1: lose a lot of sleep? I'm talking about because I've 427 00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:18,400 Speaker 1: been in situations where I couldn't sleep. I got I'm 428 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:21,239 Speaker 1: always looking out the window, like damn, I gotta do 429 00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:25,080 Speaker 1: this though, And you just you, you just so pumped 430 00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:29,800 Speaker 1: up because you know, at any given time something can happen. Well, 431 00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:34,400 Speaker 1: you know, I seriously, I did not do anything that 432 00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:39,000 Speaker 1: deserved being whacked. I never was concerned about it. I 433 00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:43,400 Speaker 1: come fronted Michael Carrafnal in prison, and I'll tell you 434 00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:48,280 Speaker 1: how that occurred and what happened there. Okay, because he's 435 00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:51,800 Speaker 1: the one who win the ash for permission. Now you 436 00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:57,600 Speaker 1: understand Shunny took his nephew like a Cardofnal's word that 437 00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:05,960 Speaker 1: I would robbing money. Michael never called or Spadel. Why not? 438 00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:08,760 Speaker 1: There's not one tape of me and Michael called Uponto 439 00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:16,480 Speaker 1: discussing drugs. We were the only two I drug conspiracy. 440 00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:20,440 Speaker 1: And then on the last superseding indictment that I just 441 00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:24,320 Speaker 1: showed you, there was only one change amongst everybody on 442 00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:30,880 Speaker 1: that indictment that was Oris Fadal because initially they indicted 443 00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:35,320 Speaker 1: me for five keels of cocaine. On the last superseding 444 00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:41,440 Speaker 1: indictment they increased it to the fifties. No, you know, James, 445 00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:44,440 Speaker 1: where would I be if I got it? I went 446 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:47,120 Speaker 1: to trial on that there, I guess you would lose 447 00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:50,640 Speaker 1: no matter what, even though it wasn't a real deal. 448 00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:55,280 Speaker 1: I never had no intention because these Mexicans had to 449 00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:58,120 Speaker 1: be paid back. They're half a million before they were 450 00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:00,760 Speaker 1: going to give anything to anybody else. I greet it. 451 00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:05,240 Speaker 1: I mean fifty killers, even though there was a whole 452 00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:07,720 Speaker 1: lot of money. And do you think they're going to 453 00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:10,640 Speaker 1: give fifty kiels and credit for you to bring back 454 00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:15,560 Speaker 1: to New York. It seems like a whole bunch of betrayal, 455 00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:20,240 Speaker 1: and just a whole bunch of betrayal. And there was 456 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:27,400 Speaker 1: more betrayal and cunniness. There was an awful lot of 457 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:31,800 Speaker 1: round funny franchise and Michael franchised. Michael mack Franchise said, 458 00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:36,320 Speaker 1: there's a video out there about me, and he thinks 459 00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:40,360 Speaker 1: that I was a rat. I'd like to address that video. 460 00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:45,320 Speaker 1: That video was also made by another informant, but it 461 00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:48,560 Speaker 1: goes by the name of Kenji Galo. His real name 462 00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:53,440 Speaker 1: is Kenny Knel. He robbed the tape out of Jimmy 463 00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:59,360 Speaker 1: Conchi's home because I was taping the FBI. Anybody listened 464 00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:02,640 Speaker 1: to that day, you see that I'm the one doing 465 00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:07,240 Speaker 1: the recording. That was a fatal mistake that I did. 466 00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:11,280 Speaker 1: That's the reason, if you want to really get down 467 00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:14,520 Speaker 1: to it, why I ended up on that Columbo Crime 468 00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:18,280 Speaker 1: Family indictment. Because they only need to predicate acts they 469 00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:24,000 Speaker 1: get you. I am responsible for the agent. His initials 470 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:33,000 Speaker 1: are seg getting demoted from the FBI uh Organized Crime 471 00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:37,640 Speaker 1: Task Force, and they put him on the Fugitive Squad. 472 00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:41,840 Speaker 1: And honestly, he owes me a favor because he got 473 00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:45,400 Speaker 1: a nod and notoriety. Today he's ahead of the fugitive 474 00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:48,920 Speaker 1: Squad and he's the guy that they give credit for 475 00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:56,720 Speaker 1: getting Whitey Bulger oh wow, So nor will finish something, Michael. 476 00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:02,240 Speaker 1: I know for a fact that that agent, along with 477 00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:07,800 Speaker 1: Michael Wax, Andy Stefanix Paranas, and a few others, used 478 00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:12,120 Speaker 1: to go to your home and have dinner. I never 479 00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:14,440 Speaker 1: had an FBI agent in my home. I haven't dinner 480 00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:18,000 Speaker 1: with me. Michael. You're the only person that I know 481 00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:21,000 Speaker 1: or do I know that information because you invited your 482 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:23,600 Speaker 1: brother to the house, and your brother used to tell 483 00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:31,200 Speaker 1: me everything. So after tonight, I want to leave Michael 484 00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:35,640 Speaker 1: franchise alone. I don't want nothing to do with him 485 00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:40,319 Speaker 1: because he is not worth my time. But Michael, if 486 00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:43,040 Speaker 1: you want to meet me and you want to have 487 00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:48,399 Speaker 1: a joint interview, I am more than willing to do it. 488 00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:53,160 Speaker 1: We will pick any social club in Brooklyn. I think 489 00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:55,680 Speaker 1: that would be a great place. Michael. Would you like 490 00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,319 Speaker 1: to come to Brooklyn with me? Michael, if you're doing 491 00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:00,600 Speaker 1: in Brooklyn digital soapber, do it. Don't do it with 492 00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:02,920 Speaker 1: nobody else. I've got people in Oh yeah, I already 493 00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:08,560 Speaker 1: got your soapbox at do it. Yeah. We have the 494 00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:11,240 Speaker 1: Gainst chronicles. Yeah, against the chronicles we had against chronicles 495 00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:15,080 Speaker 1: we have we ever done in New York. Okay, Michael 496 00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:17,120 Speaker 1: ain't gonna come to a social club in New York. 497 00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:19,840 Speaker 1: What if you do, though, Oh great, then I'll do it. 498 00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:27,480 Speaker 1: I look at it like this, playing simple and uncut. Y'all. 499 00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:32,840 Speaker 1: Guys are way older than us, and y'all for this. 500 00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:37,359 Speaker 1: This was a long long time ago, right what this? Yeah, 501 00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:42,000 Speaker 1: during the time, during the time two thousand eight. Yeah, okay, 502 00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:48,439 Speaker 1: that was years two years. And just like you said, 503 00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:51,160 Speaker 1: let's just put it away. I'm done. I'm not gonna 504 00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:56,680 Speaker 1: give you the credit. I'm not gonna speak on you 505 00:35:56,719 --> 00:36:00,080 Speaker 1: no more. Don't you think it's time to just say 506 00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:03,000 Speaker 1: I ain't got time for this ship no more. Yeah, 507 00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:05,200 Speaker 1: because I got bigger things that I might play right 508 00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:10,880 Speaker 1: now than Michael Franchi. Just no burger than me. No burger, 509 00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:16,200 Speaker 1: no burger. Michael Franchisers would never anybody except for the 510 00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:21,680 Speaker 1: fact that he would the stepson of Sunny Franchis. That's it. 511 00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:27,560 Speaker 1: In his own life, he used the name Sonny. I 512 00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:30,000 Speaker 1: look at it in his book. If you read his 513 00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:33,160 Speaker 1: first book, there's only one good chapter in that book, 514 00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:36,880 Speaker 1: and that's the chapter we talked about. I don't real 515 00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:38,560 Speaker 1: I don't, I didn't. I didn't read none of it. 516 00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:42,359 Speaker 1: I grew up watching the Mafia and all these big 517 00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:49,160 Speaker 1: names on TV. Yeah. Uh, and I kind of like 518 00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:56,120 Speaker 1: I'm enthused. I was just like, man, that's Dave straight Killers. 519 00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:58,960 Speaker 1: I loved that type of ship. It would like that 520 00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:02,840 Speaker 1: years ago. Okay, So then you sit at the table 521 00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:06,399 Speaker 1: and and all my heroes a crush because they all 522 00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:11,520 Speaker 1: like in jail from putting each other in jail. Um, 523 00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:15,200 Speaker 1: you know, going back and forth warm with each other 524 00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:21,600 Speaker 1: over twelve years, something that happened to al years. I'm like, man, 525 00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:27,080 Speaker 1: do you understand that we're talking about something that Michael 526 00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:31,680 Speaker 1: Frenchaise was never involved in if he goes right, but 527 00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:34,600 Speaker 1: see if he never involved and he was involved with 528 00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:38,120 Speaker 1: WD his name comes from all right, just because he 529 00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:41,160 Speaker 1: was the son. Well it's coming up because he's the 530 00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:44,680 Speaker 1: son and he had a lot of viewers. I get 531 00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:47,239 Speaker 1: pretty He've been doing this for thirty years. I've been 532 00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:50,279 Speaker 1: doing it for eight months. So you know, Lad's got 533 00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:54,840 Speaker 1: four millions of subscribers, so good, a lot of meals 534 00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:58,600 Speaker 1: for Flag. I made just mine a loan. I'm black 535 00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:01,920 Speaker 1: got over half a million just that one thing about Michael. 536 00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:06,879 Speaker 1: You know, I want to discuss my book. Yeah, we 537 00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:08,520 Speaker 1: were gonna get to your book. But you know what, 538 00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:12,000 Speaker 1: you cause a lot of controversy last time, man, because 539 00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:14,680 Speaker 1: you know when you talked about the guy Haitian Jack, 540 00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:17,879 Speaker 1: I don't another guy he called um, he called one 541 00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:19,440 Speaker 1: of the guys that was on the show and then 542 00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:21,479 Speaker 1: and had some words for us. He has some words 543 00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:23,520 Speaker 1: for you, he said, he's gonna come out here and 544 00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:27,120 Speaker 1: smash you. Well, Jack, I'm here. If you don't have 545 00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:29,239 Speaker 1: the money, I'll buy you a ticket. I'm sure a 546 00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:32,600 Speaker 1: kind of wife off to buy your wine. Okay, because 547 00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:36,719 Speaker 1: they're still paying you off. Jack. For whatever reason, I'm 548 00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:42,359 Speaker 1: not worried about Jake, Jack, Michael. These people really are 549 00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:47,200 Speaker 1: nothing in my life. Hitian Jack was another individual I 550 00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:50,279 Speaker 1: tried to help. I did not know either informant and 551 00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:53,640 Speaker 1: then you know, when everybody found out, I'm the guy 552 00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:56,560 Speaker 1: in Los Angeles that took all the fucking heat from 553 00:38:56,680 --> 00:39:01,440 Speaker 1: all the guys because Jack, when he was in my 554 00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:05,360 Speaker 1: name out here? Are you say he was in a formative? Yeah? 555 00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:08,400 Speaker 1: Who they sued Jack to him, I had no idea. 556 00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:11,320 Speaker 1: I mean I wasn't about They said something New York. 557 00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:15,040 Speaker 1: He was working for the FBI. Okay that so he 558 00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:17,560 Speaker 1: was back in New York. Now, I don't know where 559 00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:20,120 Speaker 1: what it could have been out here. He tried to 560 00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:22,839 Speaker 1: get close to a lot of people out here, but 561 00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:27,279 Speaker 1: people didn't trust him. M Yeah, it caused the whole 562 00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:30,760 Speaker 1: but he was pretty upset last time. He's pretty upset, 563 00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:37,280 Speaker 1: he said. Or he Spader didn't run me out of nowhere. Yeah, okay, Jack, okay, 564 00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:40,840 Speaker 1: this what's going on with your book? My book is 565 00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:44,919 Speaker 1: doing very well. Uh. I've had a lot of issues 566 00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:50,080 Speaker 1: from Hollywood. A lot of producers have approached me. Um 567 00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:55,880 Speaker 1: having a major phone call this Friday, UM with an 568 00:39:55,960 --> 00:40:04,040 Speaker 1: award winning producer director h Knowing Hollywood the way I do, 569 00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:07,400 Speaker 1: I'm very selected when who are just not going to 570 00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:12,480 Speaker 1: get my action or my rights to anybody? I know 571 00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:17,120 Speaker 1: how long it takes. I'm so active in a few 572 00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:21,600 Speaker 1: other films. I have another film coming out. It's not 573 00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:24,480 Speaker 1: coming out yet, but it was in the process. I 574 00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:30,839 Speaker 1: secured the deal for UH World Boxing Kickboxer, the one 575 00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:35,600 Speaker 1: in Japan. It's got a gage, sir in him. Look 576 00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:39,920 Speaker 1: got everything that you want, all the elements of this story. 577 00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:46,320 Speaker 1: I got the people retaining Ah the writer who I manage, 578 00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:52,799 Speaker 1: and UH. We got a couple of other films are 579 00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:59,239 Speaker 1: in the works, and you know, Hollywood, it's like the army, 580 00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:01,120 Speaker 1: hurry up and get there. When you get there awake, 581 00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:04,120 Speaker 1: Yeah for sure. So where can people because the under 582 00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:05,880 Speaker 1: the book has been I've been seeing you everywhere. You've 583 00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:07,640 Speaker 1: been in a couple of promo tours. Where can people 584 00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:10,359 Speaker 1: purchase the book at? They can purchase your ship Uh 585 00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:15,399 Speaker 1: Amazon obviously. Uh. They like an autograph copy, they can 586 00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:23,680 Speaker 1: go to my website www dot the Accidental Gangster dot com. Uh, 587 00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:29,799 Speaker 1: they could order from Barnes and Noble, Google, h all 588 00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:33,640 Speaker 1: the other platforms from my understanding. Man, that's been great. Man. 589 00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:37,879 Speaker 1: Before we leave, Man, is there anything that you want 590 00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:39,839 Speaker 1: to say to Sunny France season that you ever haven't 591 00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:41,759 Speaker 1: see since this is the last time you see y'all 592 00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:46,319 Speaker 1: going back and forth forth with this man Sunny franchise. Okay, 593 00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:50,760 Speaker 1: And I talked to Sonny a week before he passed away. 594 00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:55,640 Speaker 1: I was talking to Sunny on a weekly basis, and 595 00:41:55,800 --> 00:42:00,920 Speaker 1: you know what hurts. I called because Sunny wanted me 596 00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:04,560 Speaker 1: to go back. There was Sunny. He died on paper. 597 00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:08,400 Speaker 1: He was still on paper, and I wanted to go 598 00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:10,480 Speaker 1: visit him, but I was not going to be the 599 00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:15,920 Speaker 1: person responsible for him to be violated. So I call 600 00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:19,840 Speaker 1: this probation officer, who happened to be very nice, nice 601 00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:23,680 Speaker 1: lady on Long Island, and she said, Mrs Spareng, gonna 602 00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:26,759 Speaker 1: talk to my supervisor. I said, like it. He's a 603 00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:31,920 Speaker 1: hundred three years old. I'm seventy five. We ain't doing nothing, okay, 604 00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:34,000 Speaker 1: I said, he's just an old friend. I nor him 605 00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:40,279 Speaker 1: over forty year and just go have a lunch. And 606 00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:42,239 Speaker 1: she called me up to the next day. She talked 607 00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:46,000 Speaker 1: to the supervisor and because of the fact that Sunny 608 00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:52,520 Speaker 1: and I I've been friends for over forty years and 609 00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:55,120 Speaker 1: we were on the same indictment, they told me to 610 00:42:55,160 --> 00:43:01,080 Speaker 1: wait until June. Quite obviously, June is here, but Sonny 611 00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:04,719 Speaker 1: is not. So if you got any last words from 612 00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:07,840 Speaker 1: Michael and everybody out there that's rocking with Michael, what 613 00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:10,880 Speaker 1: you got to tell him? Michael, look at you know. 614 00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:15,000 Speaker 1: I don't know where your beef is with me, but 615 00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:17,920 Speaker 1: I'm going to back everything I say up with facts, 616 00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:22,600 Speaker 1: and you know it's what you come at me with 617 00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:28,040 Speaker 1: bullshit and live Michael. I never reached out to you 618 00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:33,920 Speaker 1: for anything, and I never would. I have no reason, 619 00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:38,560 Speaker 1: but you reach out to me. Remember, Michael, your reach 620 00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:40,360 Speaker 1: out to me when you were out of a prison 621 00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:46,400 Speaker 1: because you were paranoid about any strangers coming into the tone. Remember, Michael, 622 00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:48,520 Speaker 1: we had a meeting. I took you in the alley 623 00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:52,080 Speaker 1: and behind the Wrangling Record Club and saying to Monica 624 00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:57,040 Speaker 1: Bolivar and I told you, Michael, then if your father 625 00:43:57,320 --> 00:44:00,520 Speaker 1: asked me to do it, I'll do it. Because you 626 00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:03,880 Speaker 1: were asking me to let you know when any strangers 627 00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:09,799 Speaker 1: flew in the town. I'm not a travel agent. But 628 00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:12,200 Speaker 1: if Sonny would have told and you know what, Sonny 629 00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:14,800 Speaker 1: words work. Our Sonny called me every week from prison, 630 00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:20,160 Speaker 1: every prisoner that he was in. Son he says, don't 631 00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:25,839 Speaker 1: do a damn thing. Michael. You didn't take care of 632 00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:31,800 Speaker 1: your mother, your brother, your sisters. With all that money 633 00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:35,640 Speaker 1: that you saw that you may you've got it hidden. 634 00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:41,680 Speaker 1: You left your first wife and children. They had to 635 00:44:41,719 --> 00:44:49,960 Speaker 1: go on welfare and food stamps. Michael, which build a 636 00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:55,640 Speaker 1: pair of balls, get some character, become a man. Start 637 00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:58,719 Speaker 1: taking care. I don't want nothing from you, but take 638 00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:02,520 Speaker 1: care of your family the right way. Michael. Start bragging 639 00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:05,800 Speaker 1: about that you were a couple. You were a couple 640 00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:12,640 Speaker 1: for only one reason. Your father, John Sonny franchise that said, Michael, 641 00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:16,520 Speaker 1: I don't want to mention your word. If you've got 642 00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:20,680 Speaker 1: a serious beef with me, call me. You got my number. 643 00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:26,800 Speaker 1: I ain't calling you Michael because I don't call That's hip, folks. 644 00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:31,759 Speaker 1: Could we leave Michael franchise along and dead and Barry 645 00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:35,480 Speaker 1: he should be? I would say that would be the 646 00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:38,080 Speaker 1: best thing. I wouldn't do a blad interview on it. 647 00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:40,879 Speaker 1: I wouldn't do against the Chronicle's interview on any more. 648 00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:44,640 Speaker 1: I think, you know, how does Michael. By the way, 649 00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:48,960 Speaker 1: Michael is a few years younger than me. I think 650 00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:54,880 Speaker 1: he maybe really, I don't know, maybe sixty. I'm seventy five. 651 00:45:56,520 --> 00:45:59,160 Speaker 1: Michael's in a six. Let's live with life. We have 652 00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:03,640 Speaker 1: left in a positive on a positive note, and and 653 00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:06,000 Speaker 1: and we don't have to go back and forthtand each 654 00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:11,680 Speaker 1: other down over a situation. You over here, he's over there. 655 00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:15,400 Speaker 1: Like you said, it's over and done and Gains. The 656 00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:19,120 Speaker 1: Chronicles is done with the Michael conversation.