WEBVTT - Sniper Strike in Idaho, Gilgo Beach Murders Discovery, and the Forensic Hunt for a Killer

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<v Speaker 1>This program features the individual opinions of the host, guests,

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<v Speaker 1>and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

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<v Speaker 1>it's affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true

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<v Speaker 2>crime all the time.

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<v Speaker 3>Listen.

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<v Speaker 2>If you have the Sunday night blues like me, join

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<v Speaker 2>in because I am so glad we're together tonight. Please

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<v Speaker 2>call us anytime eight eight eight three one crime because

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<v Speaker 2>we have a stacked night of headlines. It's June twenty ninth,

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<v Speaker 2>and listen as we come on the news tonight. We're

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<v Speaker 2>following a breaking story out of Quardlaine, Idaho, where apparently

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<v Speaker 2>law enforcement is having some sniper fire go down. Two

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<v Speaker 2>lives have been lost already, God willing there are no more.

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<v Speaker 2>But we will be following that very closely throughout the

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<v Speaker 2>next few hours. And if you have something to share,

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<v Speaker 2>please do so by reaching out real time. Also, we

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<v Speaker 2>have Joseph Scott Morgan, the host of Body Bags, here

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<v Speaker 2>with us again. He's going to be breaking down all

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<v Speaker 2>things forensics in the Long Island serial murder case. We're

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<v Speaker 2>going to be really dissecting the grounds with which the

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<v Speaker 2>victims were found and then also later in the.

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<v Speaker 3>Show Diddy Diddy, Diddy Diddy.

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<v Speaker 2>Closing arguments happened on Friday, and the defense rests tomorrow.

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<v Speaker 2>The jury will actually have Diddy's fate in their hands.

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<v Speaker 2>And I gotta be honest, I am very divided about

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<v Speaker 2>how this is gonna go. So again, if you have

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<v Speaker 2>an opinion, guilty or not guilty, we want to hear

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<v Speaker 2>from you. I'm Stephanie Leidecker, and I head of KT Studios,

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<v Speaker 2>where we make true crime podcasts and documentaries and I

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<v Speaker 2>get to do that every day with Courtney Armstrong and

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<v Speaker 2>Body Moven. So body fill us in on where we

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<v Speaker 2>are with Diddy right now?

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<v Speaker 4>Closing arguments Finally, doesn't it seem like it's been forever?

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<v Speaker 3>It had however, but it's also seemed really brief.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, it's been what you know, thirty days, but

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<v Speaker 2>the defense just stopping and sharing nothing is also curious,

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<v Speaker 2>very curious.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, Closing arguments concluded in the Diddy Combs trial, with

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<v Speaker 4>the defense focusing on really kind of like five basic compartments, Okay,

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<v Speaker 4>different things, how Diddy's sex life was unconventional but not illegal, right.

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<v Speaker 4>They denied any organized effort. They insisted that his accusers

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<v Speaker 4>consent to all the sexual encounters, and they questioned the

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<v Speaker 4>truthfulness and motives of the accusers. They also urged the

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<v Speaker 4>jury to ignore all the emotion and tabloid headlines and

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<v Speaker 4>focus on the lack of proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

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<v Speaker 3>Right, So this is again, you have to be.

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<v Speaker 4>One hundred percent not in ninety nine one hundred percent convinced.

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<v Speaker 3>That he's guilty in order to check that guilty box.

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<v Speaker 4>Right.

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<v Speaker 3>The prosecution did do a short rebuttle afterwards. So that's

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<v Speaker 3>basically what's going on.

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<v Speaker 4>And Monday we'll hear hopefully maybe something from maybe we'll

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<v Speaker 4>get some questions from the jury. I don't know.

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<v Speaker 2>And listen and I will say both the prosecution, which

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<v Speaker 2>is an all female led you know, legal team of greatness,

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<v Speaker 2>did a great job. And the defense, you know, by

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<v Speaker 2>the way, you get what you pay for, they too

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<v Speaker 2>did an amazing job, right, Like they really came to

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<v Speaker 2>play and they called it, you know, his ditty's lawyer

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<v Speaker 2>said it was the tale of tailor two trials, right,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, like there's a case that's the glorified media

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<v Speaker 2>version and then there's this other case that's this consenting adults.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, maybe it's kinky behavior behind closed doors, but look,

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<v Speaker 2>is that a crime? And you know you said the

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<v Speaker 2>perfect word consented. They consented. Is that the same as

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<v Speaker 2>consenting the entire time? You know, Courtney, I see you like,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, brushing up there, go ahead.

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<v Speaker 5>Because the prosecution it's not just about Ditty's quirky sex life.

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<v Speaker 5>It is about kidnapping and bribery and sex trafficking, and

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<v Speaker 5>that is what the prosecution alleges went on for twenty years.

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<v Speaker 2>And by the way, like even he agrees with that,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, even his legal team acknowledge, is like, look,

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<v Speaker 2>this was not.

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<v Speaker 3>Necessarily a great look.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, perhaps he mistreated women, Okay, fine, perhaps he was

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<v Speaker 2>occasionally violent, Okay, yes, But again, you know, they're also

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<v Speaker 2>making it an assessment that this has been a big

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<v Speaker 2>money grab. And by the way, just as we're talking

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<v Speaker 2>about it, Cassie Ventura, who's the ex girlfriend of Ditty

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<v Speaker 2>of ten years, who was on the stand for multiple

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<v Speaker 2>days in her ninth month of pregnancy, you know, they're

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<v Speaker 2>saying this is just like a money grab for her.

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<v Speaker 2>She already got the money grab. She had twenty million

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<v Speaker 2>for she got I think even thirty million. Well she

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<v Speaker 2>asks for thirty why she got the money?

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<v Speaker 3>Why not go away?

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<v Speaker 4>Right?

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<v Speaker 3>Why would you have to still speak up? Right?

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<v Speaker 2>So it's not a money grab. That money was already grabbed.

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<v Speaker 2>And you know, listen, well earned and well deserved. In

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<v Speaker 2>my humble opinion, not that that matters, but I think

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<v Speaker 2>it's sort of this he said, she said, And then

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<v Speaker 2>you know, Diddy says again, I'm so curious because again

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<v Speaker 2>here in the studio it's really divided about the guilty,

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<v Speaker 2>n guilty.

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<v Speaker 3>Curious where you guys are landing today guilty?

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<v Speaker 4>Oh well, listen, I'm pretty I feel pretty compelled by

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<v Speaker 4>the witness testimony. I thought Jane was compelling. I thought

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<v Speaker 4>Kid Cutty was compelling, and to the root of it all,

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<v Speaker 4>I thought Cassie was very compelling. Yeah, I think it

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<v Speaker 4>showed a history and basically a pattern, right of organized

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<v Speaker 4>efforts to commit crimes.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, that's where you go. I think he's guilty bribery,

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<v Speaker 3>absolutely guilty.

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<v Speaker 5>And I do think that the prosecution has done a

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<v Speaker 5>really beautiful case, especially in their closing arguments, how they

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<v Speaker 5>laid everything out point by point. Take the bribery for one,

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<v Speaker 5>that involves as we all remember that horrible video of

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<v Speaker 5>Ditty abusing Cassie Venture in the hallway holding his towel. Okay,

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<v Speaker 5>that happened. The charge is bribery because then one hundred

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<v Speaker 5>thousand dollars was given to people to squash that and

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<v Speaker 5>make sure nobody ever sudden it never saw the light

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<v Speaker 5>of day, which ultimately happened. But it's the bribery and

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<v Speaker 5>the acknowledgment that what he did was wrong and he

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<v Speaker 5>could that makes him culpable to cover up.

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<v Speaker 4>And the defense in the closing argument said it was

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<v Speaker 4>just for bad publicity, argued that Combs paid the hotel

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<v Speaker 4>guard in twenty sixteen to avoid bad publicity, not to

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<v Speaker 4>block a police probe. So they addressed that in their

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<v Speaker 4>closing arguments. They addressed each criticis like each charge in

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<v Speaker 4>the closing arguments, and I said, I thought.

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<v Speaker 3>They did a great job.

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<v Speaker 2>But you know, I'm diddy, you know, and I have

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<v Speaker 2>ten of the greatest lawyers of all time defending me. Look,

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<v Speaker 2>they did a fantastic job, for sure. He's showing a

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<v Speaker 2>real like face of strength also apparently in the courtroom.

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<v Speaker 2>But at its core, do we believe that this guy

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<v Speaker 2>should get off? I mean, because it's becoming an all

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<v Speaker 2>or nothing at this point, he could walk, and my

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<v Speaker 2>fear would be that victims everywhere are going to be

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<v Speaker 2>less and less.

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<v Speaker 3>Likely to speak up. Well, I spoke up. What do

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<v Speaker 3>you guys think? I think guilty? What do you guys think? Oh? Oh, guilty, guilty.

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<v Speaker 4>No jury's going to say guilty. Oh gosh, that's what

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<v Speaker 4>I'm saying. What I'm saying, the jury's going to say

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<v Speaker 4>he's guilty.

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<v Speaker 3>I think so. I do think so. I do think

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<v Speaker 3>so too. I want to believe.

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<v Speaker 2>So listen, we've been down the rabbit hole and have

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<v Speaker 2>been listening and watching everything imaginable and apparently, during you know,

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<v Speaker 2>the defense's closing argument, that jurors were nodding, apparently allegedly,

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<v Speaker 2>and they seemed very you know, at ease in that

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<v Speaker 2>Diddy and the judge. Everything was like even the defense attorney,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, was making some giggles and jokes with the juror.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know, it seems like it landed very positively.

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<v Speaker 2>But again, did they know something that we don't.

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<v Speaker 4>That's a good question because he is that defense not

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<v Speaker 4>putting on an argument is fishy to me.

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<v Speaker 3>And was he overcharged? I don't know.

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<v Speaker 4>I think I think Rico might have been going too far,

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<v Speaker 4>but I do think he's guilty of it.

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<v Speaker 5>So many questions. We want to hear what you are thinking.

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<v Speaker 5>Eighty eight three one crime. So give us a call,

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<v Speaker 5>join our conversation or hit us on the talkbacks on

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<v Speaker 5>the iHeartRadio app.

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<v Speaker 3>And we have a talkback right now.

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<v Speaker 6>Hi, my name is Sarah.

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<v Speaker 7>And in reference to the Diddy case, does his smugnus

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<v Speaker 7>and the quote strategic plan from the defense to not

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<v Speaker 7>have any witnesses kind of seems suspicious to anyone else,

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<v Speaker 7>Like he knows he's getting off, possibly because he may

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<v Speaker 7>have paid somebody to get off already, and he just

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<v Speaker 7>knows that that's what's going to happen. I know that's

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<v Speaker 7>down a conspiracy hole, but I can't help but to

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<v Speaker 7>think that way.

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<v Speaker 4>I just said that. Yeah, I mean, I don't think

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<v Speaker 4>it's a conspiracy. I don't think that he's in on anything.

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<v Speaker 4>I don't think he you know, there's like money under

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<v Speaker 4>the table or anything like that. I think he's just

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<v Speaker 4>gotten away with everything his entire life and doesn't expect

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<v Speaker 4>any repercussions for his bad behavior.

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<v Speaker 2>Totally fair and by the way. You know, I Miko,

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<v Speaker 2>my two cents would be too. And I know being

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<v Speaker 2>sequesters as jurors is a really big deal.

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<v Speaker 3>A It's crazy expensive. Think about it.

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<v Speaker 2>Your thirty days, you're in a hotel, you have no phones,

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<v Speaker 2>you're away from your job. I don't wish that on anyone,

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<v Speaker 2>or any citizen for that matter. However, in a reco

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<v Speaker 2>case where people are accusing someone of taking bribes and

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<v Speaker 2>paying people off and intruding the system, if you will,

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<v Speaker 2>only in that case do I think being sequestered could

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<v Speaker 2>be meaningful. I'm not suggesting at all that the jurors

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<v Speaker 2>have not done an extraordinary job and haven't been paying

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<v Speaker 2>attention and of course not paying attention to anything in

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<v Speaker 2>the media.

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<v Speaker 3>That is the rule.

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<v Speaker 2>However, it's hard to imagine that no one has said

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<v Speaker 2>anything to anyone. And I also would have to wonder

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<v Speaker 2>just to go down this like, you know, rabbit hole

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<v Speaker 2>of conspiracies. Is it interesting that he hasn't brought one witness?

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<v Speaker 2>Is that because that one witness could be a rabbit

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<v Speaker 2>hole with celebrities and in people that he has to

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<v Speaker 2>zip it up for or think about that. Here's another

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<v Speaker 2>theory that I read, not mine But another theory is

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<v Speaker 2>it possible that Diddy turned on state's evidence and as

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<v Speaker 2>a result, he knows he may walk in exchange for

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<v Speaker 2>someone bigger, meaning the rico is under a rico charge

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<v Speaker 2>of maybe a larger celebrity who may have been at play,

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<v Speaker 2>or even a larger celebrity than that that may have

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<v Speaker 2>been at play.

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<v Speaker 4>So is because then they would never be able to

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<v Speaker 4>charge him again with this if because he got off.

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<v Speaker 3>Or if he was given immunity.

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<v Speaker 4>If he was given immunity, they would dismiss the charges

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<v Speaker 4>and he wouldn't he would be there would be no jury,

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<v Speaker 4>there would be he would be you know what I mean,

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<v Speaker 4>like there wouldn't they wouldn't go through with it.

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<v Speaker 3>So is that how it works.

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<v Speaker 2>So, in the eleventh hour, right before the defense was

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<v Speaker 2>about to do closing arguments, if Diddy, for example, and

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<v Speaker 2>again I'm going on a limb here. If you have

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<v Speaker 2>an opinion, please join us eight eight eight three one crime.

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<v Speaker 2>This is not my even personal opinion. This is an

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<v Speaker 2>opinion of others that I've read, which you know got

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<v Speaker 2>in my head. So imagine in the aven or did

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<v Speaker 2>he is like I'm not doing jail time from this

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<v Speaker 2>point forward, I've had enough, I then turn on somebody else,

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<v Speaker 2>and therefore I get immunity.

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<v Speaker 3>Therefore, I have this very cocky.

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<v Speaker 2>Air quotes, arrogant per our talkback that is saying, I

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<v Speaker 2>know I'm going home in two weeks, if not sooner,

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<v Speaker 2>and somebody else might take the hit that I've been

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<v Speaker 2>covering for this whole time.

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<v Speaker 3>Is that even possible?

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<v Speaker 4>I don't think so, But maybe this is something that

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<v Speaker 4>we can ask our buddy, Jarrett Farantino, because I know

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<v Speaker 4>I'm lawyer.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I just I don't think.

0:11:32.440 --> 0:11:34.480
<v Speaker 4>I think that they would pull the charges and he

0:11:34.559 --> 0:11:38.720
<v Speaker 4>would get like he wouldn't get acquitted because then if

0:11:38.760 --> 0:11:40.560
<v Speaker 4>he pulled, if he's like, well ha ha, I just

0:11:40.679 --> 0:11:42.880
<v Speaker 4>I was just joking around, like I you know, I

0:11:43.240 --> 0:11:45.679
<v Speaker 4>don't have anybody, They can't. They would never be able

0:11:45.720 --> 0:11:47.839
<v Speaker 4>to charge him again. Then he just is free as

0:11:47.840 --> 0:11:48.240
<v Speaker 4>a bird.

0:11:48.840 --> 0:11:51.240
<v Speaker 5>I think the defense putting up no witnesses is as

0:11:51.240 --> 0:11:54.680
<v Speaker 5>simple as really solid legal advice because of what could

0:11:54.679 --> 0:11:57.120
<v Speaker 5>happen to everyone under cross examination.

0:11:57.720 --> 0:11:58.120
<v Speaker 3>I agree.

0:11:58.160 --> 0:12:01.240
<v Speaker 5>I mean everyone who is up there think about the

0:12:01.600 --> 0:12:05.560
<v Speaker 5>job that the defense did on cross They basically put

0:12:05.600 --> 0:12:08.800
<v Speaker 5>their entire case forth in that way. They don't want

0:12:08.840 --> 0:12:12.959
<v Speaker 5>to give the prosecution a second bite at the apple.

0:12:13.720 --> 0:12:15.960
<v Speaker 2>And by the way, I guess the lead here is like,

0:12:15.960 --> 0:12:18.480
<v Speaker 2>what's the takeaway? What are we taking from this? I

0:12:18.480 --> 0:12:21.439
<v Speaker 2>guess the takeaway is like your nothing comes for free.

0:12:21.559 --> 0:12:24.200
<v Speaker 2>You know, if someone's paying your bills and they don't

0:12:24.200 --> 0:12:27.080
<v Speaker 2>want to hear from you, you're stuck. And I don't

0:12:27.120 --> 0:12:29.120
<v Speaker 2>want that to be the case, because we hear a

0:12:29.120 --> 0:12:32.400
<v Speaker 2>lot about consented and money and all the things that

0:12:32.480 --> 0:12:34.800
<v Speaker 2>doesn't wash away abuse Listen.

0:12:34.840 --> 0:12:38.000
<v Speaker 5>Coming up, we have forensic expert Joseph Scott Morgan with us.

0:12:38.160 --> 0:12:40.720
<v Speaker 5>We're going to be talking about the Long Island serial killer.

0:12:40.880 --> 0:12:44.040
<v Speaker 5>Then we have a case out of Atlanta's Piedmont Park

0:12:44.320 --> 0:12:46.400
<v Speaker 5>and do not forget to call us eight a eighty

0:12:46.440 --> 0:12:49.040
<v Speaker 5>three on crime True Crime Tonight.

0:12:57.080 --> 0:13:00.400
<v Speaker 2>Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio talk in

0:13:00.480 --> 0:13:04.120
<v Speaker 2>True Crime all the Time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker and I

0:13:04.160 --> 0:13:07.400
<v Speaker 2>head of KT Studios, where we make true crime podcasts

0:13:07.480 --> 0:13:10.440
<v Speaker 2>and documentaries and I get to do that every day

0:13:10.480 --> 0:13:14.800
<v Speaker 2>with Courtney Armstrong and body Moven and also soon to

0:13:14.840 --> 0:13:19.319
<v Speaker 2>be Joseph Scott Morgan, host of the hit podcast Body Bags.

0:13:19.600 --> 0:13:21.839
<v Speaker 2>He's going to be breaking down a ton of forensics

0:13:21.880 --> 0:13:25.319
<v Speaker 2>for us, specifically in the Long Island serial killer case

0:13:25.520 --> 0:13:29.400
<v Speaker 2>as well as this very disturbing case coming out from Atlanta.

0:13:29.640 --> 0:13:32.800
<v Speaker 2>You know, we're following closely the new developments happening in Quardlaine,

0:13:32.840 --> 0:13:37.840
<v Speaker 2>Idaho active shooter. There's a sniper and law enforcement are

0:13:37.960 --> 0:13:40.800
<v Speaker 2>praying that there are not more casualties, So we'll be

0:13:40.880 --> 0:13:44.600
<v Speaker 2>monitoring that throughout the show. And then Diddy, of course,

0:13:44.840 --> 0:13:49.120
<v Speaker 2>closing arguments ended on Friday, and the jury could hit

0:13:49.160 --> 0:13:51.400
<v Speaker 2>it tomorrow and we could have a verdict in the

0:13:51.440 --> 0:13:52.360
<v Speaker 2>next coming days.

0:13:52.440 --> 0:13:55.160
<v Speaker 3>Think about it. Fourth of July is upon us. The

0:13:55.240 --> 0:13:56.040
<v Speaker 3>courts close.

0:13:56.640 --> 0:13:59.640
<v Speaker 2>This is like three days and if you're a juror,

0:13:59.720 --> 0:14:01.880
<v Speaker 2>do you you think to yourself, I have three days

0:14:01.920 --> 0:14:03.640
<v Speaker 2>to make a decision and then I can be with

0:14:03.679 --> 0:14:06.880
<v Speaker 2>my family and no more jury duty, or do you

0:14:06.880 --> 0:14:08.880
<v Speaker 2>you know, think about it for a couple of days,

0:14:09.080 --> 0:14:11.160
<v Speaker 2>knowing that there's a holiday, and then you have to

0:14:11.200 --> 0:14:14.319
<v Speaker 2>come back. Who knows, but it does seem as though

0:14:14.320 --> 0:14:17.959
<v Speaker 2>we're up against a clock, and this case has been

0:14:18.000 --> 0:14:21.200
<v Speaker 2>on our minds twenty four to seven, so it's pretty

0:14:21.320 --> 0:14:24.120
<v Speaker 2>amazing that it's just around the bend and we're getting

0:14:24.120 --> 0:14:26.920
<v Speaker 2>really mixed signals on what that could look like. So

0:14:27.240 --> 0:14:29.920
<v Speaker 2>we also are asking to hear from you. Listen, this

0:14:29.960 --> 0:14:32.680
<v Speaker 2>is your time to weigh in eight eight eight three

0:14:32.720 --> 0:14:34.960
<v Speaker 2>to one crime. Or if you just want to leave

0:14:35.240 --> 0:14:38.760
<v Speaker 2>a message, you can download your iHeart app, press the

0:14:38.840 --> 0:14:42.240
<v Speaker 2>right hand corner and just leave a message and boom.

0:14:42.320 --> 0:14:44.320
<v Speaker 2>You can join us on the show and just give

0:14:44.320 --> 0:14:46.720
<v Speaker 2>your opinion. In fact, we have a talkback right now.

0:14:46.920 --> 0:14:49.520
<v Speaker 6>He did he those couple of charges they dropped? Does

0:14:49.520 --> 0:14:52.560
<v Speaker 6>that mean that if he is found innocent of the

0:14:52.640 --> 0:14:56.320
<v Speaker 6>other stuff, will they be able to recharge him with

0:14:56.400 --> 0:14:59.160
<v Speaker 6>the ones that they dropped later on if they can

0:14:59.240 --> 0:15:01.040
<v Speaker 6>pile more evidence against him.

0:15:01.360 --> 0:15:06.240
<v Speaker 3>Great question, great ut question. I don't know. I want

0:15:06.280 --> 0:15:08.800
<v Speaker 3>to say that if they drop, if they drop.

0:15:08.640 --> 0:15:09.960
<v Speaker 4>Things or not, they're not going to be in the

0:15:10.040 --> 0:15:14.800
<v Speaker 4>charging document and therefore their rechargeable. But they would probably

0:15:14.880 --> 0:15:17.400
<v Speaker 4>be done at the state level, right because they would

0:15:17.440 --> 0:15:21.000
<v Speaker 4>only be like two things, and those two things would

0:15:21.000 --> 0:15:25.080
<v Speaker 4>not be RICO right, so there would be separate charges

0:15:25.080 --> 0:15:28.600
<v Speaker 4>at stay I listen, I'm not a lawyer, so you know,

0:15:28.880 --> 0:15:29.680
<v Speaker 4>take it pretty close.

0:15:29.880 --> 0:15:31.080
<v Speaker 3>But I think pretty close.

0:15:31.280 --> 0:15:34.320
<v Speaker 2>If I was meeting a lawyer and my brother wasn't available,

0:15:34.360 --> 0:15:36.560
<v Speaker 2>you'd be next on the list. Oh you know, all

0:15:36.640 --> 0:15:40.360
<v Speaker 2>that to be said, listen, is that perhaps strategy why

0:15:40.640 --> 0:15:45.920
<v Speaker 2>the you know, prosecution slimmed down the charges aiding and

0:15:45.920 --> 0:15:50.080
<v Speaker 2>embedding the possible the intent of you know, they did

0:15:50.120 --> 0:15:53.280
<v Speaker 2>they streamlined this, which got a lot of talkback of like,

0:15:53.360 --> 0:15:55.240
<v Speaker 2>oh my goodness, it must mean that they don't have

0:15:55.280 --> 0:15:57.840
<v Speaker 2>a case or does that mean they have the option

0:15:58.000 --> 0:16:01.360
<v Speaker 2>to still charge of that part at a later date?

0:16:01.480 --> 0:16:02.280
<v Speaker 3>Courtney, go ahead.

0:16:02.320 --> 0:16:02.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:16:02.560 --> 0:16:05.600
<v Speaker 5>My understanding is that as long as the files were

0:16:05.680 --> 0:16:10.960
<v Speaker 5>dropped without prejudice, then they can be refiled, assuming the

0:16:11.000 --> 0:16:15.040
<v Speaker 5>statute of limitations hasn't been passed and there is sufficient evidence,

0:16:15.280 --> 0:16:18.160
<v Speaker 5>and if it's with prejudice, they cannot be refiled.

0:16:18.560 --> 0:16:19.520
<v Speaker 3>That's my understanding.

0:16:19.520 --> 0:16:23.000
<v Speaker 5>Hopefully we can get an attorney in to confirm.

0:16:22.720 --> 0:16:24.160
<v Speaker 3>Because I just don't know that it would be done

0:16:24.160 --> 0:16:24.960
<v Speaker 3>in federal court.

0:16:25.280 --> 0:16:27.760
<v Speaker 2>Fair but still court is court right and for sure,

0:16:27.760 --> 0:16:30.320
<v Speaker 2>by the way, speaking of court, Courtney, that's a really

0:16:30.360 --> 0:16:33.720
<v Speaker 2>interesting point. So is that possible if they slim down

0:16:33.720 --> 0:16:37.720
<v Speaker 2>the charges? Therefore, those charges may still apply at a

0:16:37.800 --> 0:16:41.800
<v Speaker 2>later date should he be found not guilty. And my

0:16:41.960 --> 0:16:44.520
<v Speaker 2>other question would be should he found be found not guilty,

0:16:45.040 --> 0:16:50.960
<v Speaker 2>does he just go home? Yeah, yep, Wow, I know, silence,

0:16:51.160 --> 0:16:53.440
<v Speaker 2>what's the one thing he said on radio?

0:16:53.600 --> 0:16:55.680
<v Speaker 3>But we're all sort of taken by that.

0:16:56.160 --> 0:16:59.520
<v Speaker 5>He'll walk to two places, He'll walk home or you know,

0:16:59.840 --> 0:17:02.640
<v Speaker 5>go to two places home or back to where he's

0:17:02.680 --> 0:17:03.120
<v Speaker 5>being held.

0:17:03.560 --> 0:17:04.560
<v Speaker 3>Wow, right, I.

0:17:04.520 --> 0:17:07.440
<v Speaker 4>Mean yeah, right, that, I mean, there's nothing. If he's

0:17:07.480 --> 0:17:09.920
<v Speaker 4>found guilty or not guilty of all charges, go home.

0:17:10.000 --> 0:17:13.199
<v Speaker 4>If he's found guilty of one though of like the

0:17:13.240 --> 0:17:16.359
<v Speaker 4>sexual trafficking, which is I believe a separate charge because

0:17:16.400 --> 0:17:18.360
<v Speaker 4>he's got the RICO and then the sex trafficking, Yeah,

0:17:18.720 --> 0:17:19.440
<v Speaker 4>then he'll go.

0:17:19.760 --> 0:17:21.320
<v Speaker 3>You know, he's going to be Listen, he's going to

0:17:21.359 --> 0:17:23.760
<v Speaker 3>be guilty of one of them. Just last words.

0:17:23.840 --> 0:17:26.640
<v Speaker 2>I honestly don't have a strong feeling on it one

0:17:26.640 --> 0:17:29.639
<v Speaker 2>way or the other. And again my heart is with

0:17:30.000 --> 0:17:32.760
<v Speaker 2>I have, you know, the jurors and that they are,

0:17:32.960 --> 0:17:35.800
<v Speaker 2>you know, sifting through things really carefully. How about these

0:17:35.840 --> 0:17:40.199
<v Speaker 2>recent charges that just popped up with Justin Combs. That's

0:17:40.480 --> 0:17:44.800
<v Speaker 2>you know, Diddy's eldest son, and Justin has now been

0:17:44.920 --> 0:17:49.720
<v Speaker 2>brought up on charges as well, allegedly allegedly, allegedly he

0:17:50.000 --> 0:17:53.280
<v Speaker 2>lured a woman from a woman from Louisiana he met

0:17:53.320 --> 0:17:57.119
<v Speaker 2>on Snapchat. He encouraged her to send some risque photos.

0:17:57.440 --> 0:18:03.000
<v Speaker 2>She did very quickly. He Justin allegedly responded saying, you know,

0:18:03.160 --> 0:18:05.840
<v Speaker 2>please come to LA you can meet my dad, and

0:18:06.160 --> 0:18:10.479
<v Speaker 2>promised her lots of access to career help. Apparently she

0:18:10.640 --> 0:18:13.719
<v Speaker 2>was a you know, a thriving star to be and

0:18:13.760 --> 0:18:16.960
<v Speaker 2>when she arrived in Los Angeles, she was met by

0:18:17.119 --> 0:18:21.440
<v Speaker 2>a gaggle of humans that were wearing masquerade masks. How

0:18:21.480 --> 0:18:24.720
<v Speaker 2>scary in and of itself, and she claims she was

0:18:25.080 --> 0:18:30.920
<v Speaker 2>drugged and raped. And these charges just dropped. Is that scary?

0:18:31.080 --> 0:18:33.919
<v Speaker 2>Does the apple fall far from the tree? Or is

0:18:33.960 --> 0:18:36.679
<v Speaker 2>it just a crazy coincidence that on the eve of

0:18:36.720 --> 0:18:40.560
<v Speaker 2>the time that he may be released, that suddenly Diddy's

0:18:40.800 --> 0:18:43.840
<v Speaker 2>eldest son is also brought up on charges. And by

0:18:43.840 --> 0:18:46.920
<v Speaker 2>the way, Diddy is also said to be a part

0:18:46.960 --> 0:18:51.560
<v Speaker 2>of this raping. Apparently Justin referred to pops end quotes

0:18:51.840 --> 0:18:56.800
<v Speaker 2>and that in her opinion, this anonymous victim assumes that

0:18:56.920 --> 0:18:57.960
<v Speaker 2>was didty himself.

0:18:58.160 --> 0:19:00.000
<v Speaker 3>What do you make of that? I mean the time,

0:19:00.000 --> 0:19:01.480
<v Speaker 3>I mean the timing.

0:19:01.600 --> 0:19:04.920
<v Speaker 5>Could also be that this that this Jane Doe saw

0:19:04.960 --> 0:19:08.920
<v Speaker 5>that the trial was coming on and perhaps that gave

0:19:09.000 --> 0:19:12.679
<v Speaker 5>her some courage, if that's the correct word, to file.

0:19:12.480 --> 0:19:15.440
<v Speaker 3>Her own charges, right. I don't know, just a thought,

0:19:15.560 --> 0:19:18.439
<v Speaker 3>but it has uit me a very good point. What da,

0:19:18.760 --> 0:19:20.960
<v Speaker 3>what are the exact charges that he's being charged with

0:19:21.320 --> 0:19:21.840
<v Speaker 3>all kinds?

0:19:21.920 --> 0:19:25.480
<v Speaker 2>And by the way, interestingly enough, just aside from that,

0:19:25.840 --> 0:19:28.400
<v Speaker 2>So Justin's the eldest, and he's been in court, We've

0:19:28.440 --> 0:19:31.480
<v Speaker 2>seen him. You know, he's very devoted to his father.

0:19:31.880 --> 0:19:35.600
<v Speaker 2>The next up in line is Christian, and Christian is

0:19:35.640 --> 0:19:39.560
<v Speaker 2>the birth child of Diddy and his ex now deceased

0:19:39.800 --> 0:19:43.440
<v Speaker 2>Kim Porter. And Christian was also brought up on charges

0:19:43.480 --> 0:19:47.320
<v Speaker 2>back in April of twenty twenty four for allegedly sexually

0:19:47.320 --> 0:19:51.760
<v Speaker 2>assaulting a person on a yacht that they were partying on.

0:19:52.160 --> 0:19:54.919
<v Speaker 2>She was like one of the stewardesses on this boat.

0:19:55.160 --> 0:19:58.760
<v Speaker 2>And those charges have kind of happened in the background.

0:19:58.880 --> 0:20:01.520
<v Speaker 2>So that's a lot of Diddy men being brought up

0:20:01.520 --> 0:20:02.120
<v Speaker 2>on charges.

0:20:02.480 --> 0:20:04.680
<v Speaker 4>You're listening to True Crime tonight where we talk true

0:20:04.680 --> 0:20:06.760
<v Speaker 4>crime all the time. I'm body move in and I'm

0:20:06.800 --> 0:20:10.000
<v Speaker 4>here with Stephanie Leidecker and Courtney Armstrong and we're talking

0:20:10.000 --> 0:20:13.080
<v Speaker 4>about all things Diddy. If you want to weigh in

0:20:13.119 --> 0:20:15.040
<v Speaker 4>with your thoughts. Give us a call at eight eight

0:20:15.080 --> 0:20:18.239
<v Speaker 4>eight thirty one crime, or use the iHeartRadio app and

0:20:18.280 --> 0:20:21.720
<v Speaker 4>send us a talk back message. Stephanie, you seem to

0:20:21.760 --> 0:20:23.600
<v Speaker 4>really kind of have your finger on the pulse of this.

0:20:24.119 --> 0:20:26.360
<v Speaker 4>Do we know if these are criminal charges or criminal

0:20:26.440 --> 0:20:27.200
<v Speaker 4>charging with suit?

0:20:27.320 --> 0:20:27.720
<v Speaker 3>Oh?

0:20:27.640 --> 0:20:32.240
<v Speaker 2>So they all charge charge that are being pursued, you know, Listen,

0:20:32.320 --> 0:20:35.760
<v Speaker 2>obviously no one's been arrested. Maybe the timing is by

0:20:35.880 --> 0:20:39.119
<v Speaker 2>some said to be suspicious or by others said to

0:20:39.160 --> 0:20:43.359
<v Speaker 2>be perfect timing. Is this just a world that had

0:20:43.760 --> 0:20:48.920
<v Speaker 2>very loose boundaries and those boundaries are now not okay?

0:20:49.160 --> 0:20:51.959
<v Speaker 2>And the more we talk about it, perhaps victims are

0:20:52.000 --> 0:20:55.560
<v Speaker 2>realizing that that wasn't okay. And to Courtney's earlier point,

0:20:55.640 --> 0:20:59.399
<v Speaker 2>maybe they're getting the courage right. Or is this, you know,

0:20:59.560 --> 0:21:02.640
<v Speaker 2>I meetiate a blast. I obviously I don't know the answer,

0:21:02.720 --> 0:21:05.280
<v Speaker 2>but I do find it all super interesting and I'm

0:21:05.320 --> 0:21:06.760
<v Speaker 2>so glad we get to talk about it.

0:21:07.000 --> 0:21:10.119
<v Speaker 5>So body, here's the information I have on what was

0:21:10.520 --> 0:21:14.160
<v Speaker 5>what is alleged? So the suit was filed, not just against.

0:21:13.800 --> 0:21:17.560
<v Speaker 3>The suit was filed. Yeah, so it's a civil suit.

0:21:17.880 --> 0:21:21.639
<v Speaker 5>Let's see see see what I'm saying, right, there's the

0:21:21.680 --> 0:21:24.760
<v Speaker 5>cops it was. I think you might be right that

0:21:24.840 --> 0:21:27.480
<v Speaker 5>it was civil. Let me, we'll need to check back.

0:21:27.680 --> 0:21:31.080
<v Speaker 2>Discussion on that is a real because civil would mean money,

0:21:31.359 --> 0:21:34.000
<v Speaker 2>right and criminal would mean jail time.

0:21:34.359 --> 0:21:36.959
<v Speaker 3>Right. So what's what's going on here? Alleged?

0:21:37.160 --> 0:21:42.600
<v Speaker 5>So it's against Justin also Sean Combs and the business

0:21:42.600 --> 0:21:46.880
<v Speaker 5>Combs Enterprises and bad Boy Entertainment, so that who who's

0:21:46.880 --> 0:21:49.639
<v Speaker 5>The suit was filed against a civil suit. It claims

0:21:49.640 --> 0:21:53.320
<v Speaker 5>sexual assault and battery, gender violence, and negligent supervision.

0:21:53.800 --> 0:21:54.840
<v Speaker 3>Okay yep.

0:21:54.840 --> 0:21:58.000
<v Speaker 5>And the lawsuit demands a jury trial and payment of damages,

0:21:58.480 --> 0:22:01.520
<v Speaker 5>including for quote future and past lost earnings.

0:22:01.880 --> 0:22:02.600
<v Speaker 3>It's a tough one.

0:22:02.800 --> 0:22:06.400
<v Speaker 4>Courtney would pasties was civil initially m hm, So we'll

0:22:06.440 --> 0:22:07.280
<v Speaker 4>have to keep an eye on it.

0:22:07.800 --> 0:22:08.520
<v Speaker 3>What do I think?

0:22:09.200 --> 0:22:13.160
<v Speaker 5>I think this sounds the details that have been given

0:22:13.200 --> 0:22:17.119
<v Speaker 5>out seem incredibly similar to stuff we have heard played

0:22:17.160 --> 0:22:21.080
<v Speaker 5>out in the current trial, just because Justin said pops,

0:22:21.119 --> 0:22:23.720
<v Speaker 5>assuming that is true, I don't know that that's enough

0:22:23.800 --> 0:22:25.639
<v Speaker 5>to embroil Diddy.

0:22:25.840 --> 0:22:27.359
<v Speaker 3>That seems tenuous to me.

0:22:28.720 --> 0:22:31.879
<v Speaker 5>But again, I don't have many details, but I think

0:22:31.960 --> 0:22:33.800
<v Speaker 5>it is a very believable story.

0:22:34.400 --> 0:22:37.360
<v Speaker 4>Of course, I mean, the detail, but with the masks

0:22:37.400 --> 0:22:39.440
<v Speaker 4>and whatnot, the details.

0:22:38.920 --> 0:22:40.200
<v Speaker 3>Are very like.

0:22:41.040 --> 0:22:45.640
<v Speaker 2>Is that a thing I'm picturing eyes wide shut?

0:22:46.560 --> 0:22:47.320
<v Speaker 3>Is that a thing.

0:22:47.560 --> 0:22:49.800
<v Speaker 2>Who's showing up to a Oh, I'm here to be

0:22:49.840 --> 0:22:52.120
<v Speaker 2>discovered as a hip hop star? And I go into

0:22:52.119 --> 0:22:55.399
<v Speaker 2>a room and everyone's wearing masks and they're giving me

0:22:55.440 --> 0:22:59.119
<v Speaker 2>something to drink, which drugs me. And then suddenly I'm

0:22:59.680 --> 0:23:02.600
<v Speaker 2>you know, part of an air quotes Gangbang? Is that

0:23:02.960 --> 0:23:06.239
<v Speaker 2>the scariest thing you've ever heard? Or is that a

0:23:06.320 --> 0:23:10.240
<v Speaker 2>movie that we've watched? I don't know the answer, but again,

0:23:10.280 --> 0:23:12.800
<v Speaker 2>I'm really just, you know, grateful we get to discuss it.

0:23:12.960 --> 0:23:14.719
<v Speaker 4>Well, I am too, and I hope that you all

0:23:14.760 --> 0:23:17.919
<v Speaker 4>stick around because coming up we're going to be talking

0:23:17.960 --> 0:23:21.159
<v Speaker 4>about the Long Island serial killer with the forensics expert

0:23:21.320 --> 0:23:22.439
<v Speaker 4>Joseph Scott Morgan.

0:23:22.520 --> 0:23:23.679
<v Speaker 3>I cannot best.

0:23:23.640 --> 0:23:27.440
<v Speaker 4>In the business a thing, So stick around and we'll

0:23:27.440 --> 0:23:30.399
<v Speaker 4>get into that conversation, and then Joseph is going to

0:23:30.440 --> 0:23:33.240
<v Speaker 4>be diving into the Suzanne Morphew case with us. This

0:23:33.280 --> 0:23:35.240
<v Speaker 4>is a really important case in near and dear to

0:23:35.280 --> 0:23:37.200
<v Speaker 4>my heart, we're going to be breaking down the forensic

0:23:37.200 --> 0:23:40.720
<v Speaker 4>evidence and the prosecution has on her husband Barry Morphew,

0:23:40.800 --> 0:23:43.840
<v Speaker 4>who has just been re arrested, and don't forget give

0:23:43.920 --> 0:23:46.640
<v Speaker 4>us a call at eight thirty one Crime with your

0:23:46.640 --> 0:23:48.840
<v Speaker 4>thoughts on any of tonight's stories. We really want to

0:23:48.880 --> 0:23:51.400
<v Speaker 4>hear from you. We love the interaction. Keep it here,

0:23:51.720 --> 0:23:53.520
<v Speaker 4>True Crime Tonight, stick around.

0:24:03.280 --> 0:24:06.359
<v Speaker 2>Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

0:24:06.400 --> 0:24:10.080
<v Speaker 2>true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here of course,

0:24:10.160 --> 0:24:16.040
<v Speaker 2>with body Movin, Courtney Armstrong and forensics expert and family

0:24:16.160 --> 0:24:19.320
<v Speaker 2>to the show. Joseph Scott Morgan is here. He's going

0:24:19.400 --> 0:24:21.439
<v Speaker 2>to talk to us about all things the Long Island

0:24:21.480 --> 0:24:25.560
<v Speaker 2>serial killer as well as a real disturbing case in Atlanta. Joseph,

0:24:25.680 --> 0:24:29.560
<v Speaker 2>we cannot get to you fast enough. Welcome, welcome back.

0:24:30.440 --> 0:24:32.680
<v Speaker 2>It's so good to have you here on this Sunday.

0:24:33.000 --> 0:24:34.320
<v Speaker 2>And although on a.

0:24:34.400 --> 0:24:39.040
<v Speaker 3>Very grisly topic, you are a breath of fresh air. Yeah.

0:24:39.600 --> 0:24:44.919
<v Speaker 5>So this is a trigger warning, so just please hear that.

0:24:45.119 --> 0:24:48.080
<v Speaker 5>We're going to discuss some disturbing specifics in the Rex

0:24:48.240 --> 0:24:51.639
<v Speaker 5>Humorman case. Some is of a violent and sexual nature,

0:24:51.800 --> 0:24:56.480
<v Speaker 5>so listener discretion strongly advised. The alleged Long Island serial killer,

0:24:56.520 --> 0:25:00.879
<v Speaker 5>Rex Huerman is alleged to have depositive four his victims

0:25:00.960 --> 0:25:05.880
<v Speaker 5>along a place called Gilgo Beach. It's along Ocean Parkway.

0:25:06.119 --> 0:25:09.200
<v Speaker 5>Two we're in a wooded area. One is in Manorville,

0:25:09.440 --> 0:25:13.080
<v Speaker 5>New York. And he is also suspected to be involved

0:25:13.160 --> 0:25:17.240
<v Speaker 5>in eleven further deaths. Question mark if there's more, but

0:25:17.400 --> 0:25:21.160
<v Speaker 5>that's that is what's alleged right now. And these murders

0:25:21.200 --> 0:25:24.600
<v Speaker 5>happened between nineteen ninety three and two thousand and eleven,

0:25:24.840 --> 0:25:27.119
<v Speaker 5>so he has now been linked to seven of the

0:25:27.119 --> 0:25:32.560
<v Speaker 5>eleven murders. And Joseph, we would love clarity. Tell us

0:25:32.560 --> 0:25:36.760
<v Speaker 5>about the victims. They get lost in the sauce quote Stephanie, who.

0:25:36.560 --> 0:25:38.960
<v Speaker 8>Were the visay to do? Unfortunately, and that's that's always

0:25:39.000 --> 0:25:40.360
<v Speaker 8>the case. Hey, I'm going to give you a big

0:25:40.440 --> 0:25:44.320
<v Speaker 8>reveal right now about myself in my career when when

0:25:44.400 --> 0:25:47.760
<v Speaker 8>I was practicing in Atlanta and New Orleans, I worked

0:25:47.800 --> 0:25:51.800
<v Speaker 8>several series of serial killings. These are all unrelated, they're

0:25:51.840 --> 0:25:56.280
<v Speaker 8>all different, Okay. The one commonality, and people have heard

0:25:56.280 --> 0:25:59.000
<v Speaker 8>this for years and years, So one commonality is that

0:25:59.320 --> 0:26:06.440
<v Speaker 8>every single series I ever worked involved sex workers. There's

0:26:06.440 --> 0:26:10.520
<v Speaker 8>no exception to that, and this is no different in

0:26:10.520 --> 0:26:14.960
<v Speaker 8>that sense, because they are the for in our population.

0:26:15.200 --> 0:26:19.159
<v Speaker 8>I take exception with anybody that dismisses these women because

0:26:19.200 --> 0:26:21.720
<v Speaker 8>they that many of them the end of their room,

0:26:21.840 --> 0:26:25.960
<v Speaker 8>all right, they have no other choice. It's people, you know.

0:26:26.040 --> 0:26:28.359
<v Speaker 8>People will many times say, oh, well, they always had

0:26:28.359 --> 0:26:30.680
<v Speaker 8>a choice. You haven't lived a life of these people

0:26:30.680 --> 0:26:34.280
<v Speaker 8>of living and unfortunately they cross paths with a monster.

0:26:35.359 --> 0:26:40.719
<v Speaker 8>And so with these victims, what we can say is

0:26:40.760 --> 0:26:44.919
<v Speaker 8>that they were very vulnerable. They had this commonality in

0:26:45.320 --> 0:26:48.679
<v Speaker 8>these occupational choices that they made along the way at

0:26:48.760 --> 0:26:53.680
<v Speaker 8>Hureman allegedly saw that and saw that as a way

0:26:53.800 --> 0:26:57.280
<v Speaker 8>to get to them so that he could satisfy this

0:26:57.520 --> 0:27:01.080
<v Speaker 8>urge that he has. And with all of these victoms,

0:27:02.240 --> 0:27:05.000
<v Speaker 8>the best that we can kind of come up with

0:27:05.720 --> 0:27:08.159
<v Speaker 8>is that some kind of arrangement had been made to

0:27:08.359 --> 0:27:11.840
<v Speaker 8>meet and you know, this idea of burner phones comes in.

0:27:12.480 --> 0:27:15.520
<v Speaker 8>But then we come back to what I refer to

0:27:15.560 --> 0:27:17.880
<v Speaker 8>as the hunting ground. The hunting ground is not really

0:27:17.920 --> 0:27:22.360
<v Speaker 8>a hunting ground. It's more like a deposit area. And

0:27:22.800 --> 0:27:26.360
<v Speaker 8>we can learn a lot about a serial perpetrator by

0:27:26.480 --> 0:27:29.640
<v Speaker 8>virtue of this. They swim these areas that they are

0:27:29.800 --> 0:27:33.119
<v Speaker 8>very familiar with, These are the ultimate control freaks. They

0:27:33.200 --> 0:27:36.240
<v Speaker 8>want to be able to control every aspect of this

0:27:36.400 --> 0:27:41.560
<v Speaker 8>life and this process that they're working through, acting out, doing,

0:27:42.320 --> 0:27:45.640
<v Speaker 8>interacting with these fantasies. Most of them have this incredible

0:27:45.640 --> 0:27:49.879
<v Speaker 8>fantasy life. That's why they take possession of many of

0:27:49.920 --> 0:27:52.120
<v Speaker 8>the elements or many items.

0:27:51.680 --> 0:27:52.280
<v Speaker 9>That these people.

0:27:52.480 --> 0:27:55.080
<v Speaker 8>You know, that's another thing that some of these women

0:27:55.119 --> 0:27:58.760
<v Speaker 8>were actually missing things. They were missing things and guess

0:27:58.760 --> 0:28:01.919
<v Speaker 8>what the idea is that you can go back and

0:28:02.000 --> 0:28:04.880
<v Speaker 8>you can take these things if you're a perpetrator and

0:28:05.119 --> 0:28:08.320
<v Speaker 8>live through them. BTK did it. There's a number of

0:28:08.400 --> 0:28:10.840
<v Speaker 8>other ones that have done it. They're trophy takers and

0:28:10.880 --> 0:28:13.760
<v Speaker 8>they're easy to steal from, and not just their things,

0:28:13.800 --> 0:28:17.040
<v Speaker 8>but obviously their wives. And when we think about where

0:28:17.119 --> 0:28:21.600
<v Speaker 8>human comes from this Long Island area and he knows

0:28:21.640 --> 0:28:24.280
<v Speaker 8>this roadway, you know, the one thing that really jumps

0:28:24.280 --> 0:28:26.560
<v Speaker 8>to mind are these four bodies that are found in

0:28:26.680 --> 0:28:30.080
<v Speaker 8>quick succession along the roadway where they're just kind of

0:28:30.080 --> 0:28:33.320
<v Speaker 8>deposited a long the way and they're found in and

0:28:33.400 --> 0:28:35.480
<v Speaker 8>you know what the wild thing about it is the

0:28:35.600 --> 0:28:38.640
<v Speaker 8>very first one is like out of the four, the

0:28:39.440 --> 0:28:42.960
<v Speaker 8>so called Golgol four, it's dumb luck You've got a

0:28:43.000 --> 0:28:46.000
<v Speaker 8>cop that's out there that is actually trying to train

0:28:46.600 --> 0:28:51.640
<v Speaker 8>his dog, and that dog hits on these remains absolutely

0:28:51.720 --> 0:28:52.480
<v Speaker 8>mind So.

0:28:52.760 --> 0:28:57.440
<v Speaker 4>Basically, he's going to put his the bodies the victims, right,

0:28:57.800 --> 0:28:59.959
<v Speaker 4>He's going to put them in an area he's familiar with,

0:29:00.360 --> 0:29:03.560
<v Speaker 4>because the worst thing that could happen is he gets

0:29:03.640 --> 0:29:07.280
<v Speaker 4>lost or you know, he goes down a dead end

0:29:07.440 --> 0:29:10.680
<v Speaker 4>and is trapped somehow, So he's going to be you know,

0:29:10.760 --> 0:29:13.720
<v Speaker 4>these people are going to and I say these people

0:29:13.760 --> 0:29:17.200
<v Speaker 4>by I mean the killer, they're going to put their

0:29:17.280 --> 0:29:20.160
<v Speaker 4>victims somewhere where they're absolutely familiar with.

0:29:20.480 --> 0:29:22.320
<v Speaker 3>Is what you're saying, right Like.

0:29:22.520 --> 0:29:26.320
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, that's familiarity, and it's it's something because they want

0:29:26.360 --> 0:29:28.440
<v Speaker 8>to continue to do I don't know, you know, this

0:29:28.560 --> 0:29:32.880
<v Speaker 8>is maybe too exstential out of it. I've also wonder

0:29:33.040 --> 0:29:36.120
<v Speaker 8>are they doing this? Are they doing this in order

0:29:36.200 --> 0:29:39.120
<v Speaker 8>to not be caught? Are they doing this so that

0:29:39.200 --> 0:29:42.080
<v Speaker 8>they can continue doing what they do? You see what

0:29:42.120 --> 0:29:44.760
<v Speaker 8>I'm saying, it's not that they're afraid of being caught,

0:29:44.800 --> 0:29:47.080
<v Speaker 8>it's the fact that they don't want it to come

0:29:47.120 --> 0:29:50.160
<v Speaker 8>to an end because they continue to play this out.

0:29:50.400 --> 0:29:52.080
<v Speaker 8>These four victims, in particularly the.

0:29:52.040 --> 0:29:52.959
<v Speaker 9>Gil go for now.

0:29:52.960 --> 0:29:56.920
<v Speaker 8>There's several women obviously that we're talking about. One other

0:29:57.040 --> 0:30:00.800
<v Speaker 8>interesting thing is that when these women were found, they

0:30:00.800 --> 0:30:05.800
<v Speaker 8>were wrapped in burlap, and this is camouflage burlap.

0:30:07.080 --> 0:30:08.400
<v Speaker 3>It kind of lens into the weeds.

0:30:10.720 --> 0:30:13.760
<v Speaker 4>I'm sorry, the burlap kind of blends into the scenery

0:30:13.800 --> 0:30:15.000
<v Speaker 4>there right, because it.

0:30:15.000 --> 0:30:19.760
<v Speaker 8>Does because this this particular type of burlap is camouflage.

0:30:20.040 --> 0:30:23.160
<v Speaker 8>You want to hear something interesting about burlap. Of course,

0:30:23.160 --> 0:30:28.120
<v Speaker 8>burlap is actually associated with the old term called sackcloth,

0:30:28.360 --> 0:30:31.600
<v Speaker 8>which if you ever went to Sunday school, sackcloth and

0:30:31.680 --> 0:30:35.640
<v Speaker 8>ashes their mourning people put sackcloth on. And I've always

0:30:35.680 --> 0:30:39.960
<v Speaker 8>found that interesting about these four particular things. It's like

0:30:41.160 --> 0:30:43.600
<v Speaker 8>it's like the cost of the poor wear sackcloth, and

0:30:43.640 --> 0:30:46.040
<v Speaker 8>he's using this to cover their bodies with and then

0:30:46.080 --> 0:30:48.880
<v Speaker 8>to posit them along this way. It always going to

0:30:48.960 --> 0:30:50.800
<v Speaker 8>chill up my spine relative to this.

0:30:51.600 --> 0:30:52.080
<v Speaker 3>Wow.

0:30:52.240 --> 0:30:54.040
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, no, that's very interesting. I wonder if that has

0:30:54.040 --> 0:30:56.800
<v Speaker 4>any meaning. I wonder if that has any like religious meaning,

0:30:56.960 --> 0:30:58.680
<v Speaker 4>like is are they sacred or.

0:30:58.960 --> 0:31:01.760
<v Speaker 8>I don't know, because not all the bodies were wrapped

0:31:01.800 --> 0:31:05.280
<v Speaker 8>in burlap, but those those four actually were, and of

0:31:05.320 --> 0:31:07.640
<v Speaker 8>course it was camouflage and they were deposited there.

0:31:07.960 --> 0:31:10.239
<v Speaker 4>Of course, you're listening to True Crime Tonight, where we

0:31:10.280 --> 0:31:12.479
<v Speaker 4>talk true crime all the time. I'm body moving here

0:31:12.520 --> 0:31:16.240
<v Speaker 4>with Stephanie Leidecker and Courtney Armstrong, and we are here

0:31:16.280 --> 0:31:19.360
<v Speaker 4>with the wonderful Joseph Scott Morgan, and we are talking

0:31:19.440 --> 0:31:22.479
<v Speaker 4>all things Rex Huerman and the Gilgo Beach murders. If

0:31:22.520 --> 0:31:24.240
<v Speaker 4>you want to weigh in, give us some call at

0:31:24.280 --> 0:31:26.880
<v Speaker 4>eight eight eight thirty one Crime or hit the talkbacks

0:31:26.920 --> 0:31:28.160
<v Speaker 4>on the iHeartRadio app.

0:31:28.200 --> 0:31:29.320
<v Speaker 3>We would love to hear from you.

0:31:29.480 --> 0:31:32.120
<v Speaker 5>I think it's such an interesting question if it could be,

0:31:32.240 --> 0:31:35.800
<v Speaker 5>you know, some kind of symbolism or something. But also

0:31:36.480 --> 0:31:38.920
<v Speaker 5>my thought is like when I've had my yard redone,

0:31:39.160 --> 0:31:42.320
<v Speaker 5>I feel like there's burr lap underneath that deals with

0:31:42.360 --> 0:31:45.480
<v Speaker 5>the vegetation. So it also would not be an odd

0:31:45.560 --> 0:31:46.920
<v Speaker 5>thing to see.

0:31:47.200 --> 0:31:50.280
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, no, it wouldn't be. But the burlap that he's

0:31:50.440 --> 0:31:54.160
<v Speaker 8>using this is interesting. I was having a discussion with

0:31:54.280 --> 0:31:57.719
<v Speaker 8>someone I can't remember now, but you know, he is

0:31:58.200 --> 0:32:02.600
<v Speaker 8>allegedly an avid an Avid duck hunter, Okay, and I've

0:32:02.640 --> 0:32:06.120
<v Speaker 8>always wondered if he had used to being an Avid

0:32:06.200 --> 0:32:08.840
<v Speaker 8>duck hunter as kind of a cover for all of

0:32:08.840 --> 0:32:11.440
<v Speaker 8>this if he gets caught out in this area. Hey man,

0:32:11.520 --> 0:32:13.160
<v Speaker 8>I'm just going out taking a look where I'm going

0:32:13.160 --> 0:32:16.280
<v Speaker 8>to set up a blind. And he's got the camouflage burlap,

0:32:16.440 --> 0:32:18.960
<v Speaker 8>he's carrying this truck. You know, he can go out

0:32:18.960 --> 0:32:22.320
<v Speaker 8>there and kind of ease into the story about all

0:32:22.360 --> 0:32:24.920
<v Speaker 8>this and you know, talk to the cops. You know,

0:32:25.800 --> 0:32:28.200
<v Speaker 8>I've often thought about that as well. Or was it

0:32:28.280 --> 0:32:30.440
<v Speaker 8>just a matter of convenience. Well, you know, I've got

0:32:30.440 --> 0:32:32.560
<v Speaker 8>this stuff laying around, I'm going to use it. But

0:32:32.680 --> 0:32:36.680
<v Speaker 8>here's the thing about it. Burlap is very porous. So

0:32:36.760 --> 0:32:39.600
<v Speaker 8>if you're wrapping the body in burlap, what's your point

0:32:40.320 --> 0:32:44.120
<v Speaker 8>Because you're not trying to keep blood or biological materials

0:32:44.160 --> 0:32:47.320
<v Speaker 8>off of everything, because it's going to seep through, you know,

0:32:47.480 --> 0:32:50.920
<v Speaker 8>I mean, Corney you had mentioned you see it in landscaping.

0:32:51.200 --> 0:32:53.600
<v Speaker 8>If you pick up a piece of burlap, you'll actually

0:32:53.680 --> 0:32:57.080
<v Speaker 8>have dirt that will actually fall through the bottom of it.

0:32:57.360 --> 0:33:00.560
<v Speaker 8>So it's not really practical if you're trying to blood

0:33:00.640 --> 0:33:03.840
<v Speaker 8>or any other kind of decompositional fluid or anything like this.

0:33:04.160 --> 0:33:07.240
<v Speaker 8>I just other than it's masking.

0:33:06.880 --> 0:33:10.800
<v Speaker 3>Something, I wonder what it means. I'm so curious. So

0:33:10.840 --> 0:33:13.240
<v Speaker 3>we should talk about the individual victims.

0:33:13.240 --> 0:33:16.880
<v Speaker 4>You had mentioned the Gilgo four, and is that Melissa Bartholomey.

0:33:17.040 --> 0:33:19.600
<v Speaker 4>She was found at Gilgo Beach in December of twenty

0:33:19.640 --> 0:33:22.560
<v Speaker 4>ten when an officer was on the training exercise. Right,

0:33:22.640 --> 0:33:25.800
<v Speaker 4>She was found wrapped in burlap. And then two days later,

0:33:26.240 --> 0:33:30.480
<v Speaker 4>Megan Waterman was found in Gilgo Beach wrapped in burlap.

0:33:30.560 --> 0:33:34.320
<v Speaker 4>And then two days after that, Amber Costello was found

0:33:34.440 --> 0:33:39.520
<v Speaker 4>wrapped in burlap, and then two days after that, Maureen.

0:33:39.520 --> 0:33:41.040
<v Speaker 3>Brainerd Barnes was found.

0:33:41.200 --> 0:33:44.040
<v Speaker 4>She was not found wrapped in burlap, but she was

0:33:44.080 --> 0:33:46.280
<v Speaker 4>found bound with the leather belts.

0:33:46.520 --> 0:33:50.360
<v Speaker 2>Right, So, leather belt with a buckle that allegedly ties

0:33:50.520 --> 0:33:55.040
<v Speaker 2>back to the accused, rex Humor Men's head, her initials

0:33:55.080 --> 0:33:58.080
<v Speaker 2>on it, on the buckle, and that allegedly is rex

0:33:58.160 --> 0:33:59.800
<v Speaker 2>Humor Men's grandfather.

0:34:00.040 --> 0:34:02.480
<v Speaker 3>If I'm not mistaken, right, is Joseph? Is that accurate?

0:34:02.960 --> 0:34:06.040
<v Speaker 8>Yeah? Yeah, that is that. There's a familial attachment there,

0:34:06.080 --> 0:34:09.440
<v Speaker 8>and I find that quite interesting that this would you know,

0:34:09.520 --> 0:34:11.960
<v Speaker 8>you know, I don't know about you guys. My grandpa's

0:34:12.000 --> 0:34:14.120
<v Speaker 8>not around me long. If I had a belt that

0:34:14.200 --> 0:34:17.000
<v Speaker 8>was associated with my grandpa, I'm thinking this thing's going

0:34:17.080 --> 0:34:18.879
<v Speaker 8>to be sacred to me. I'm not going to take

0:34:18.920 --> 0:34:21.560
<v Speaker 8>it and just you know, use it in some manner

0:34:21.800 --> 0:34:24.879
<v Speaker 8>without it being significant. Now, I don't know, maybe I'm

0:34:24.920 --> 0:34:26.680
<v Speaker 8>reading too much into it. I don't think you are

0:34:26.920 --> 0:34:29.840
<v Speaker 8>for me, I get you right on. Yeah, it's just

0:34:29.920 --> 0:34:32.799
<v Speaker 8>kind of an odd thing, you know, that that little bit,

0:34:33.000 --> 0:34:33.239
<v Speaker 8>you know.

0:34:33.280 --> 0:34:34.000
<v Speaker 9>Kind of comes in.

0:34:34.320 --> 0:34:36.719
<v Speaker 2>I have a question on that front, too, Joseph. You

0:34:36.760 --> 0:34:39.359
<v Speaker 2>guys know, I'm from the area, so I grew up

0:34:39.360 --> 0:34:42.600
<v Speaker 2>on Long Island, not too too far this will happened,

0:34:42.760 --> 0:34:44.960
<v Speaker 2>you know. Where the bodies were being discovered was in

0:34:45.080 --> 0:34:48.000
<v Speaker 2>Nassau County on Long Island, which is about forty five

0:34:48.000 --> 0:34:50.840
<v Speaker 2>minutes to an hour outside of New York City. I

0:34:50.880 --> 0:34:54.120
<v Speaker 2>grew up a little further out east. But I'm telling you,

0:34:54.160 --> 0:34:57.920
<v Speaker 2>this is a beautiful place where again neighbors know one another.

0:34:58.160 --> 0:35:00.640
<v Speaker 2>It's it's a lovely place.

0:35:00.440 --> 0:35:01.080
<v Speaker 3>To grow up.

0:35:01.200 --> 0:35:04.359
<v Speaker 2>Shout out to Sachem High School. These things, you know,

0:35:04.560 --> 0:35:08.759
<v Speaker 2>literally don't happen there. And the idea that girls were

0:35:09.160 --> 0:35:13.200
<v Speaker 2>being found in burlap bags again and again and again,

0:35:13.600 --> 0:35:17.719
<v Speaker 2>and now we know that there was a potential torture

0:35:17.840 --> 0:35:23.120
<v Speaker 2>chamber allegedly found in this particular house where the accused

0:35:23.239 --> 0:35:26.319
<v Speaker 2>Rex Humerman and his wife and two children lived. Is

0:35:26.360 --> 0:35:29.200
<v Speaker 2>it possible that more than one of these women were

0:35:29.239 --> 0:35:31.880
<v Speaker 2>held at the same time and then disposed of?

0:35:32.239 --> 0:35:32.640
<v Speaker 9>I don't know.

0:35:32.800 --> 0:35:34.759
<v Speaker 8>I think that I think a lot of that goes

0:35:34.800 --> 0:35:39.000
<v Speaker 8>to how rich is his fantasy life was and what

0:35:39.040 --> 0:35:41.839
<v Speaker 8>he had constructed, because you know, it's never it's never

0:35:41.880 --> 0:35:44.120
<v Speaker 8>as simple as I'm just going to do one thing.

0:35:44.440 --> 0:35:46.880
<v Speaker 8>It has to be expanded out from that many times

0:35:46.880 --> 0:35:48.480
<v Speaker 8>for a lot of these folks, and so they're going

0:35:48.520 --> 0:35:51.040
<v Speaker 8>to go very broadly. Did he hold two at a

0:35:51.080 --> 0:35:52.359
<v Speaker 8>tom did he have three at a time?

0:35:52.520 --> 0:35:53.879
<v Speaker 3>We're not done talking about less.

0:35:53.960 --> 0:35:55.920
<v Speaker 4>Give us a call at eighty eight eight thirty one

0:35:55.960 --> 0:35:57.560
<v Speaker 4>Crime Breaking News.

0:35:57.719 --> 0:36:00.960
<v Speaker 2>We have been following this closelyse the top of the hour,

0:36:01.239 --> 0:36:05.759
<v Speaker 2>there's been a sniper really in Quardelaine, Idaho, And we

0:36:05.920 --> 0:36:09.719
<v Speaker 2>initially reported that there were two lost souls and we

0:36:09.760 --> 0:36:12.560
<v Speaker 2>didn't know what was happening next, and now we are

0:36:12.640 --> 0:36:13.239
<v Speaker 2>hearing more.

0:36:13.320 --> 0:36:17.239
<v Speaker 5>Courtney tell us, Yeah, this just out. The International Association

0:36:17.360 --> 0:36:21.120
<v Speaker 5>of Firefighters. They have confirmed in a statement that two

0:36:21.160 --> 0:36:25.200
<v Speaker 5>of its members were killed by this sniper. There is

0:36:25.239 --> 0:36:30.200
<v Speaker 5>another in surgery, and this all relates to several hours ago.

0:36:30.239 --> 0:36:34.840
<v Speaker 5>It was one twenty one Mountain time that firefighters responded

0:36:34.880 --> 0:36:37.440
<v Speaker 5>to a call for a brush fire when they arrived

0:36:37.680 --> 0:36:41.320
<v Speaker 5>a sniper or snipers. I think not everything is incredibly

0:36:41.360 --> 0:36:46.320
<v Speaker 5>clear right now started firing, and again there are also

0:36:46.400 --> 0:36:49.760
<v Speaker 5>unknown outside of those three unknown casualties in this moment,

0:36:50.080 --> 0:36:52.960
<v Speaker 5>So we will continue following. The news is literally coming

0:36:53.000 --> 0:36:56.719
<v Speaker 5>out in bits and pieces, and it's incredibly.

0:36:56.360 --> 0:36:58.080
<v Speaker 3>Horrible, unbelievable.

0:36:58.200 --> 0:37:01.000
<v Speaker 2>And also, we know we were just discussing this earlier,

0:37:01.040 --> 0:37:03.120
<v Speaker 2>and if you miss any of the first hour, catch

0:37:03.200 --> 0:37:06.840
<v Speaker 2>us right after on the podcast. Joseph back to the

0:37:07.440 --> 0:37:09.480
<v Speaker 2>serial killer. I know we were knee deep in it.

0:37:10.000 --> 0:37:13.080
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I want to hear more about this memorialization of

0:37:13.440 --> 0:37:14.120
<v Speaker 4>the victims.

0:37:14.680 --> 0:37:17.920
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, well, for years, you know, people talk about the

0:37:18.360 --> 0:37:21.960
<v Speaker 8>concept of face covering. Face covering is something that we

0:37:22.040 --> 0:37:26.120
<v Speaker 8>see in homicide cases many times, where if somebody has

0:37:26.120 --> 0:37:30.200
<v Speaker 8>a connection with an individual that they have murdered, they'll

0:37:30.200 --> 0:37:33.760
<v Speaker 8>covered face because they can't bear seeing that person's face,

0:37:34.000 --> 0:37:37.399
<v Speaker 8>even in death. And so you take that and kind

0:37:37.400 --> 0:37:39.680
<v Speaker 8>of expand that a bit, and you begin to think

0:37:39.719 --> 0:37:42.080
<v Speaker 8>about memorialization of the dead, and we can learn a

0:37:42.080 --> 0:37:45.120
<v Speaker 8>lot about killers and how they treat the dead. Sounds

0:37:45.200 --> 0:37:49.640
<v Speaker 8>kind of odd, I know, but how they if they're

0:37:50.080 --> 0:37:53.400
<v Speaker 8>using if they kill an individual and kind of toss

0:37:53.480 --> 0:37:56.160
<v Speaker 8>them like, we'll have what are called dumps where we

0:37:56.200 --> 0:37:59.319
<v Speaker 8>have body dumps where you'll find a person lying in

0:37:59.360 --> 0:38:01.680
<v Speaker 8>a ditch along inside of the road and their body's

0:38:01.719 --> 0:38:04.839
<v Speaker 8>twisted in an odd way. It's not that the perpetrator

0:38:04.920 --> 0:38:07.520
<v Speaker 8>position them that way. Many times, it's because they simply

0:38:07.520 --> 0:38:09.840
<v Speaker 8>wanted to put as much distance as they could between

0:38:09.880 --> 0:38:12.160
<v Speaker 8>them and the body as quickly as possible, and they

0:38:12.320 --> 0:38:14.920
<v Speaker 8>roll them out of the car. That's different than if

0:38:14.960 --> 0:38:17.359
<v Speaker 8>you walk the body back into the woods. You lay

0:38:17.440 --> 0:38:20.000
<v Speaker 8>them out, maybe you cover their face, but rocks or

0:38:20.040 --> 0:38:23.040
<v Speaker 8>sticks or whatever it is. And so you know, you

0:38:23.120 --> 0:38:26.400
<v Speaker 8>go back to the so called Gilga four and you

0:38:26.480 --> 0:38:29.880
<v Speaker 8>see that they're wrapped. But we have other individuals that

0:38:29.960 --> 0:38:34.400
<v Speaker 8>have been found that are treated differently. We've got a

0:38:34.440 --> 0:38:37.840
<v Speaker 8>couple of bodies. We've got one young woman who's found

0:38:38.360 --> 0:38:41.280
<v Speaker 8>literally and I hate to say this, this is terrible,

0:38:41.360 --> 0:38:45.200
<v Speaker 8>but she's found bent back at the knees and she's

0:38:45.239 --> 0:38:50.560
<v Speaker 8>been decapitated. And that's a horrible image. But we have

0:38:50.719 --> 0:38:54.480
<v Speaker 8>to look at that clinically and think about who is

0:38:54.520 --> 0:38:56.839
<v Speaker 8>this the same person doing this? Because this is a

0:38:56.880 --> 0:39:00.839
<v Speaker 8>lot different than wrapping a body up and depositing that

0:39:00.920 --> 0:39:03.920
<v Speaker 8>body on side of the road. Then you have another

0:39:04.680 --> 0:39:09.200
<v Speaker 8>another individual that is found that has been dismembered. Now

0:39:09.480 --> 0:39:11.360
<v Speaker 8>you begin to get into that and you begin to

0:39:11.360 --> 0:39:14.759
<v Speaker 8>think about, you know, how that looks, how it appears.

0:39:14.640 --> 0:39:17.040
<v Speaker 4>You're right about that. Well, later we're going to be

0:39:17.080 --> 0:39:19.920
<v Speaker 4>inviting you to ask questions about any of the cases

0:39:19.920 --> 0:39:23.440
<v Speaker 4>that we've covered tonight. He did he Suzan Morphew Lisk

0:39:23.800 --> 0:39:26.040
<v Speaker 4>Give us a call eight eight eight thirty one crime,

0:39:26.440 --> 0:39:29.520
<v Speaker 4>or use the talkbacks on the iHeart Radio app. Stay

0:39:29.600 --> 0:39:32.000
<v Speaker 4>right here True Crime Tonight.

0:39:40.960 --> 0:39:44.280
<v Speaker 2>Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

0:39:44.360 --> 0:39:47.319
<v Speaker 2>true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Lai Decker and

0:39:47.360 --> 0:39:49.680
<v Speaker 2>I head of KAT Studios, where we make true crime

0:39:49.719 --> 0:39:52.799
<v Speaker 2>podcasts and documentaries. And I get to do that with

0:39:53.120 --> 0:39:57.880
<v Speaker 2>true crime producer and host Courtney Armstrong and crime analysts

0:39:57.880 --> 0:40:02.560
<v Speaker 2>and host Body move In and forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan.

0:40:02.760 --> 0:40:06.320
<v Speaker 3>You'll also know him from the hit podcast Body Bags.

0:40:06.400 --> 0:40:08.920
<v Speaker 2>We've been talking a lot about the Long Island serial killers,

0:40:08.960 --> 0:40:11.839
<v Speaker 2>so we will continue to do so. Boddy, where should

0:40:11.840 --> 0:40:12.200
<v Speaker 2>we start?

0:40:12.360 --> 0:40:14.879
<v Speaker 4>Well, I kind of want to talk about more about

0:40:14.880 --> 0:40:18.279
<v Speaker 4>the memorialization of the victims. So in the previous hour

0:40:18.360 --> 0:40:21.719
<v Speaker 4>we were talking with Joseph Scott Morgan about the significance

0:40:21.760 --> 0:40:25.120
<v Speaker 4>of how the bodies are left and meaning behind pretty

0:40:25.160 --> 0:40:27.400
<v Speaker 4>much everything, right, and so I kind of Joseph, I

0:40:27.440 --> 0:40:28.919
<v Speaker 4>hate to do this to you, but can you kind

0:40:28.960 --> 0:40:29.359
<v Speaker 4>of go.

0:40:29.400 --> 0:40:32.520
<v Speaker 3>Over this again? Yeah, what is the what is memorialization?

0:40:32.680 --> 0:40:35.680
<v Speaker 3>What does it mean? And what are we talking about here?

0:40:35.920 --> 0:40:40.879
<v Speaker 8>Well? I think probably for most people memorialization would come

0:40:40.920 --> 0:40:43.279
<v Speaker 8>down to the idea of honoring the dat I know

0:40:43.360 --> 0:40:46.520
<v Speaker 8>that sounds really bizarre when you're thinking about a serial killer,

0:40:46.560 --> 0:40:50.239
<v Speaker 8>but how it actually puts the value on the individual

0:40:50.320 --> 0:40:53.200
<v Speaker 8>that has been the victim promisid You know, how much

0:40:53.280 --> 0:40:56.800
<v Speaker 8>value do they assign to that individual? And value sometimes

0:40:56.920 --> 0:41:00.399
<v Speaker 8>is tied up in anything in life. You think about Todd, right,

0:41:00.600 --> 0:41:03.240
<v Speaker 8>how much time did they spend with the body? Did

0:41:03.400 --> 0:41:07.560
<v Speaker 8>these individuals that have the psychothology going on, do they

0:41:07.760 --> 0:41:11.719
<v Speaker 8>find themselves invested enough with this individual to actually clean

0:41:11.760 --> 0:41:16.040
<v Speaker 8>a body. We've had that happen many times, redress the body,

0:41:16.080 --> 0:41:19.560
<v Speaker 8>perhaps take things from the body, and then to take

0:41:19.600 --> 0:41:22.200
<v Speaker 8>the body and almost prepare it in their own way,

0:41:22.520 --> 0:41:25.879
<v Speaker 8>and then they have to select the spot for depositing

0:41:25.880 --> 0:41:28.640
<v Speaker 8>the body. Is their goal to hide the body or

0:41:28.719 --> 0:41:31.279
<v Speaker 8>is their goal to have it kind of sequestered to

0:41:31.320 --> 0:41:33.600
<v Speaker 8>the point where somebody could stumble upon it. Because a

0:41:33.600 --> 0:41:35.960
<v Speaker 8>lot of these people that perpetrate these crimes work on

0:41:36.000 --> 0:41:38.120
<v Speaker 8>the idea of a shock factor. You know, they want

0:41:38.160 --> 0:41:40.440
<v Speaker 8>to shock people that come up and discover the remains.

0:41:40.440 --> 0:41:42.320
<v Speaker 8>Can you imagine walking down the road and you suddenly

0:41:42.400 --> 0:41:46.400
<v Speaker 8>find a decomposing individual vinyl side or this very shocking

0:41:46.440 --> 0:41:50.280
<v Speaker 8>for them, right, And so there's meaning and literally everything

0:41:50.320 --> 0:41:53.239
<v Speaker 8>that they do said this memorialization of the dead. It's

0:41:53.239 --> 0:41:54.880
<v Speaker 8>not like they just drag them off and kind of

0:41:54.880 --> 0:41:57.319
<v Speaker 8>throw them away like rubbish. They prepare the body, that

0:41:57.400 --> 0:42:00.480
<v Speaker 8>wrap the body, and then they deposit the body. In

0:42:00.520 --> 0:42:04.560
<v Speaker 8>this case with go gofore he's allegedly going back to

0:42:04.600 --> 0:42:07.480
<v Speaker 8>the same spot. I mean there we within feet guys,

0:42:07.560 --> 0:42:10.480
<v Speaker 8>think about that, within feet of one another. That takes

0:42:10.520 --> 0:42:13.560
<v Speaker 8>a certain level of hutsbah in order to do that

0:42:13.760 --> 0:42:17.000
<v Speaker 8>courage if you will, I guess, however you define that,

0:42:17.200 --> 0:42:19.239
<v Speaker 8>you know, and to lay them up because this is

0:42:19.280 --> 0:42:21.920
<v Speaker 8>a big risk that he's taking to do that. So

0:42:22.000 --> 0:42:24.799
<v Speaker 8>I think a lot can be read into that was

0:42:24.840 --> 0:42:28.000
<v Speaker 8>he rushed? Do any of these cases give you the

0:42:28.040 --> 0:42:31.560
<v Speaker 8>impression that it was something that was rushed, that you

0:42:31.600 --> 0:42:33.920
<v Speaker 8>know that maybe he was caught or thought he was

0:42:33.960 --> 0:42:35.560
<v Speaker 8>going to be caught so he had to get rid

0:42:35.600 --> 0:42:37.680
<v Speaker 8>of the body really quickly, or did he take his time?

0:42:37.920 --> 0:42:39.799
<v Speaker 8>Wouldn't it be interesting to be able to pair that

0:42:39.960 --> 0:42:44.080
<v Speaker 8>up with the travels of pureman's family perae body. You know,

0:42:44.160 --> 0:42:47.000
<v Speaker 8>where were they on these dates when these individuals last

0:42:47.040 --> 0:42:49.400
<v Speaker 8>were seen. Does that mean he took more time with

0:42:49.480 --> 0:42:51.759
<v Speaker 8>the body and what was done to the body in

0:42:51.800 --> 0:42:55.120
<v Speaker 8>its anti mortem which means pre death state as opposed

0:42:55.160 --> 0:42:58.000
<v Speaker 8>to the post morton state, Because that's another big thing here,

0:42:58.280 --> 0:43:00.359
<v Speaker 8>and from a forensic standpoint, it's going.

0:43:00.320 --> 0:43:01.080
<v Speaker 9>To be invaluable.

0:43:01.200 --> 0:43:04.560
<v Speaker 8>Pay close attention here because we've heard this term come

0:43:04.640 --> 0:43:08.560
<v Speaker 8>up in several lease cases about dismemberment. Dismemberment. In my

0:43:09.520 --> 0:43:13.320
<v Speaker 8>experience working cases like this, the one thing I'm looking

0:43:13.400 --> 0:43:17.920
<v Speaker 8>for are tool marks. What type of instrumentality was utilized

0:43:18.040 --> 0:43:21.200
<v Speaker 8>in order to take a body and literally butcher it.

0:43:21.239 --> 0:43:23.399
<v Speaker 8>As horrific as that is, you have to get past

0:43:23.480 --> 0:43:25.799
<v Speaker 8>it and look at it scientifically and say, are these

0:43:25.840 --> 0:43:28.239
<v Speaker 8>tool marks the same on this body as they are

0:43:28.280 --> 0:43:30.880
<v Speaker 8>on the other body is an individual using a chainsaw,

0:43:30.920 --> 0:43:34.720
<v Speaker 8>a circular saw, a hack saw, carpenter.

0:43:34.320 --> 0:43:37.000
<v Speaker 3>Saw, and Joseph.

0:43:35.600 --> 0:43:37.800
<v Speaker 8>All of this.

0:43:37.800 --> 0:43:40.839
<v Speaker 5>Speaks to pattern I would imagine when trying whether it's

0:43:40.880 --> 0:43:44.560
<v Speaker 5>the tools or similarities. For example, in the Go Go four,

0:43:45.320 --> 0:43:52.800
<v Speaker 5>Melissa Bartholomey, Megan Waterman, Amber Costello, and Marine Brainerd Barnes,

0:43:53.080 --> 0:43:57.120
<v Speaker 5>they were all found within days of each other, and yes,

0:43:57.520 --> 0:44:02.400
<v Speaker 5>three were found wrapped in Verlin. Maureen Brainerd Barnes was

0:44:02.719 --> 0:44:05.879
<v Speaker 5>not found wrapped in burr lap, but was found within

0:44:05.920 --> 0:44:09.520
<v Speaker 5>the same period, but she was found with leather belt

0:44:09.560 --> 0:44:12.240
<v Speaker 5>that potentially allegedly ties back to Humerman.

0:44:12.680 --> 0:44:13.560
<v Speaker 3>So that's the four.

0:44:14.040 --> 0:44:17.880
<v Speaker 5>And then going back to the earliest victim who was found,

0:44:18.000 --> 0:44:20.040
<v Speaker 5>this was in nineteen ninety three and this was Sandra

0:44:20.360 --> 0:44:23.560
<v Speaker 5>Caristia and her remains were found by hunters, Like you said,

0:44:23.600 --> 0:44:27.359
<v Speaker 5>imagine just you're going out to have a fun hunt day.

0:44:27.600 --> 0:44:29.800
<v Speaker 5>They found this poor woman. It was in a wooded

0:44:29.840 --> 0:44:32.840
<v Speaker 5>area in log Island and it was about sixty miles

0:44:32.880 --> 0:44:35.359
<v Speaker 5>from Gilgo Beach and it was on her body that

0:44:35.600 --> 0:44:39.440
<v Speaker 5>hairs were found that linked her to Humerman all these

0:44:39.520 --> 0:44:40.040
<v Speaker 5>years later.

0:44:40.440 --> 0:44:42.600
<v Speaker 3>So yeah, Stephanie, I was.

0:44:42.560 --> 0:44:44.880
<v Speaker 2>Just going to say just one little shout out to

0:44:44.960 --> 0:44:50.080
<v Speaker 2>the moms of these victims, because honestly, this one unsolved.

0:44:50.280 --> 0:44:52.280
<v Speaker 3>I'm from the area for years.

0:44:52.719 --> 0:44:56.200
<v Speaker 2>Honestly, if it wasn't for the moms of these victims

0:44:56.320 --> 0:45:00.239
<v Speaker 2>keeping them alive in the media's eyes, they would and

0:45:00.280 --> 0:45:04.840
<v Speaker 2>they band together at some point and really rallied because

0:45:04.920 --> 0:45:08.279
<v Speaker 2>police were not connecting these dots for whatever reason. And

0:45:08.320 --> 0:45:12.360
<v Speaker 2>there's so much speculation around this, but regardless, in my heart,

0:45:12.520 --> 0:45:15.799
<v Speaker 2>I believe these would not have been solved murders if

0:45:15.840 --> 0:45:19.839
<v Speaker 2>not for the loving parents and mothers specifically that came

0:45:19.880 --> 0:45:23.160
<v Speaker 2>together to fight for their daughter's justice. Sorry, Joseph, I

0:45:23.200 --> 0:45:25.359
<v Speaker 2>just had to throw that in because it's so unique.

0:45:25.239 --> 0:45:28.279
<v Speaker 8>So I concur I couldcur completely with you. Families play

0:45:28.320 --> 0:45:31.960
<v Speaker 8>such a such a big part rather in solving hamsas

0:45:32.040 --> 0:45:35.160
<v Speaker 8>many times, particularly those that are they're open, you know,

0:45:35.560 --> 0:45:39.279
<v Speaker 8>not just the idea of getting justice, but just just

0:45:39.400 --> 0:45:41.840
<v Speaker 8>giving a inertia to the case to move it along.

0:45:41.920 --> 0:45:44.000
<v Speaker 8>And here's the odd thing about it is, it's not

0:45:44.080 --> 0:45:47.200
<v Speaker 8>like we're in the city. Okay, we're out of Long Island.

0:45:47.360 --> 0:45:50.000
<v Speaker 8>How many of these cases does it take until a

0:45:50.120 --> 0:45:53.080
<v Speaker 8>light bulb goes off above your head and says, hey, look,

0:45:53.239 --> 0:45:56.040
<v Speaker 8>we've got these similarities that are occurring out here. How

0:45:56.120 --> 0:45:57.480
<v Speaker 8>is it that nobody's putting.

0:45:57.239 --> 0:45:58.160
<v Speaker 9>Two or two together?

0:45:58.440 --> 0:46:02.480
<v Speaker 8>And you know, again, jurisdictionally, you might have some divide there.

0:46:02.520 --> 0:46:05.920
<v Speaker 8>You might not have as much connectivity because one the

0:46:06.000 --> 0:46:08.040
<v Speaker 8>left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing.

0:46:08.560 --> 0:46:11.680
<v Speaker 8>And also people retire, people move on with their lives,

0:46:11.760 --> 0:46:13.320
<v Speaker 8>and some of these things are lost.

0:46:13.120 --> 0:46:14.000
<v Speaker 9>To the this time.

0:46:14.360 --> 0:46:17.160
<v Speaker 4>Well, all the victims were from different different areas too.

0:46:17.200 --> 0:46:19.400
<v Speaker 4>They weren't all from they weren't from Long Island, so

0:46:19.760 --> 0:46:22.200
<v Speaker 4>you know they're from the city, right. I think that

0:46:22.239 --> 0:46:23.840
<v Speaker 4>has I think it has a little bit to do

0:46:23.880 --> 0:46:27.160
<v Speaker 4>with it too, because you know, Long Island's just you know,

0:46:27.200 --> 0:46:29.160
<v Speaker 4>sitting out there. They don't realize they've got these four

0:46:29.239 --> 0:46:32.960
<v Speaker 4>victims laying in gog Beach right in Manhattan, You're right,

0:46:33.200 --> 0:46:36.279
<v Speaker 4>and wherever else they're they're missing people I don't know.

0:46:36.440 --> 0:46:40.040
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, And that's interesting also this bit that these women,

0:46:40.120 --> 0:46:42.920
<v Speaker 8>many of them did, originate from the city and then

0:46:42.920 --> 0:46:45.839
<v Speaker 8>they're they're brought out to an area which the city

0:46:45.920 --> 0:46:49.279
<v Speaker 8>toilers in New York considered to be very rural. You know,

0:46:49.600 --> 0:46:52.279
<v Speaker 8>we're going to Long Island. It's like a huge trip there.

0:46:52.320 --> 0:46:54.839
<v Speaker 8>It's like a part in the rural area, but the

0:46:54.880 --> 0:46:57.680
<v Speaker 8>point of origin, the genesis for this is the city

0:46:57.719 --> 0:47:00.680
<v Speaker 8>and they're coming out there. The one commonality is that

0:47:00.680 --> 0:47:03.000
<v Speaker 8>they're on the same trade, right, and.

0:47:02.960 --> 0:47:05.160
<v Speaker 3>They're all twenty two to twenty seven years old too.

0:47:05.320 --> 0:47:07.160
<v Speaker 3>They're all fairly young women.

0:47:07.200 --> 0:47:09.120
<v Speaker 8>And petit yeah, and they're petite.

0:47:12.160 --> 0:47:12.640
<v Speaker 3>Giant.

0:47:13.000 --> 0:47:17.040
<v Speaker 4>He's a giant man, right, He's humongous, like he's really

0:47:17.080 --> 0:47:19.000
<v Speaker 4>it's like six seven or something.

0:47:19.120 --> 0:47:20.920
<v Speaker 3>How tall is he? I can't remember. He's tall.

0:47:21.120 --> 0:47:25.120
<v Speaker 5>He's incredibly tall and imposing and an eyewitness we can

0:47:25.160 --> 0:47:27.760
<v Speaker 5>talk about later described him, I believe as an ogre.

0:47:28.160 --> 0:47:30.520
<v Speaker 5>You are listening to true crime tonight. We're talking true

0:47:30.560 --> 0:47:33.279
<v Speaker 5>crime all the time. I'm Courtney Armstrong with Body Move

0:47:33.360 --> 0:47:37.240
<v Speaker 5>and Stephanie Leidecker, and gracing our presence tonight is forensic

0:47:37.360 --> 0:47:40.960
<v Speaker 5>expert Joseph Scott Morgan. We'd really love you to join

0:47:40.960 --> 0:47:43.279
<v Speaker 5>the conversation, so give us a call. We're at eighty

0:47:43.320 --> 0:47:46.240
<v Speaker 5>eight three to one crime or send us a talkback

0:47:46.360 --> 0:47:48.799
<v Speaker 5>super easy on the iHeart app. You go to the

0:47:48.880 --> 0:47:51.960
<v Speaker 5>right hand corner, press on the microphone and then you

0:47:52.040 --> 0:47:56.160
<v Speaker 5>are on the show. So Joseph, we're talking about commonalities obviously,

0:47:56.960 --> 0:48:01.520
<v Speaker 5>and we started touching. You started touching earlier. On decapitation, So,

0:48:01.880 --> 0:48:04.879
<v Speaker 5>Jessica Taylor. She was found in two thousand and three,

0:48:05.280 --> 0:48:09.160
<v Speaker 5>again an unsuspecting woman walking her dog. This was in Manorville,

0:48:09.560 --> 0:48:12.919
<v Speaker 5>New York. And the poor woman she had been decapitated.

0:48:12.920 --> 0:48:15.759
<v Speaker 5>Both of her arms had been severed, bloody elbows, and

0:48:15.800 --> 0:48:19.400
<v Speaker 5>it's had two had been obliterated by a sharp object.

0:48:19.520 --> 0:48:23.239
<v Speaker 5>Back to you talking about objects. So how rare or

0:48:23.320 --> 0:48:27.880
<v Speaker 5>not is it for the same murderer allegedly to choose

0:48:27.960 --> 0:48:31.920
<v Speaker 5>to decapitate and do this to one woman and not

0:48:32.160 --> 0:48:32.760
<v Speaker 5>the others.

0:48:34.680 --> 0:48:38.319
<v Speaker 8>I don't know that I can necessarily speak about frequency here,

0:48:38.400 --> 0:48:41.000
<v Speaker 8>but I think that one thing that is of note

0:48:41.080 --> 0:48:47.640
<v Speaker 8>court in the idea here is that it's messy business.

0:48:47.920 --> 0:48:51.520
<v Speaker 8>I know that seems rather an obvious statement. However, you

0:48:51.640 --> 0:48:55.640
<v Speaker 8>have to have privacy, you have to have access, assuming

0:48:55.680 --> 0:48:58.560
<v Speaker 8>that electrical instruments are used, you have to have access

0:48:58.600 --> 0:49:00.920
<v Speaker 8>to electricity. This is not something you're going to do

0:49:00.960 --> 0:49:04.840
<v Speaker 8>along the side of the road. You have to have time,

0:49:05.239 --> 0:49:09.200
<v Speaker 8>and it's a developed skill set. As gruesome as that sound,

0:49:09.400 --> 0:49:13.480
<v Speaker 8>you know, people that walk in that do butchery, for instance,

0:49:14.160 --> 0:49:17.279
<v Speaker 8>you know for a living, they just don't do that

0:49:17.360 --> 0:49:21.240
<v Speaker 8>the first day. It's a learning curve, So it would

0:49:21.239 --> 0:49:23.920
<v Speaker 8>take time in order to develop a skill set like this,

0:49:24.040 --> 0:49:25.839
<v Speaker 8>and you have to have the want to in order

0:49:25.920 --> 0:49:28.000
<v Speaker 8>to be it to do it. A lot of people

0:49:28.080 --> 0:49:29.720
<v Speaker 8>think that they could do it. A lot of people

0:49:30.120 --> 0:49:32.520
<v Speaker 8>have said, well, yeah, it's very simple.

0:49:32.600 --> 0:49:33.319
<v Speaker 9>No, it's not.

0:49:33.560 --> 0:49:36.239
<v Speaker 8>Because most of the people that are caught as a

0:49:36.280 --> 0:49:40.439
<v Speaker 8>result of physical evidence that's left behind that results from

0:49:40.440 --> 0:49:44.239
<v Speaker 8>a dismemberment, many times it's because they don't understand how

0:49:44.280 --> 0:49:46.160
<v Speaker 8>to do it the most efficient way. They don't know

0:49:46.200 --> 0:49:49.239
<v Speaker 8>the first thing about human anatomy, what's the easiest way

0:49:49.280 --> 0:49:51.200
<v Speaker 8>to go about that? And these are the sort of

0:49:51.200 --> 0:49:53.879
<v Speaker 8>things we think about in forensics many times. I think

0:49:53.880 --> 0:49:57.200
<v Speaker 8>that probably profilers think about that as well. But you

0:49:57.280 --> 0:50:00.319
<v Speaker 8>need time and you need privacy, And that case in

0:50:00.360 --> 0:50:03.080
<v Speaker 8>particular is kind of a touchstone in all of this.

0:50:03.520 --> 0:50:05.880
<v Speaker 8>Where did he do this? How long did he have

0:50:06.080 --> 0:50:09.120
<v Speaker 8>with his body to go this deep into interesting?

0:50:09.160 --> 0:50:11.279
<v Speaker 5>And that goes back to what you were saying with

0:50:11.480 --> 0:50:15.640
<v Speaker 5>you know, potentially mapping out Humerman's family's travels and how

0:50:15.680 --> 0:50:18.400
<v Speaker 5>long he had if maybe his whole family was on

0:50:18.440 --> 0:50:21.359
<v Speaker 5>an extended trip when one of these poor women were

0:50:21.600 --> 0:50:22.600
<v Speaker 5>taking end of it, it.

0:50:22.560 --> 0:50:26.200
<v Speaker 8>Has to be yeah, and again remember the checklist. The

0:50:26.280 --> 0:50:29.240
<v Speaker 8>check is one thing that you need to always.

0:50:28.880 --> 0:50:29.520
<v Speaker 9>Keep in mind.

0:50:29.800 --> 0:50:33.239
<v Speaker 8>Is that statement, that comment that he made playtime And

0:50:33.280 --> 0:50:35.960
<v Speaker 8>that's always going to ring in my ears, you know,

0:50:36.000 --> 0:50:38.920
<v Speaker 8>the first time I heard somebody talk about it after

0:50:39.000 --> 0:50:44.399
<v Speaker 8>that list was was released. And what does playtime mean? Well,

0:50:44.680 --> 0:50:48.480
<v Speaker 8>playtime for us might mean something completely different to somebody

0:50:48.560 --> 0:50:51.680
<v Speaker 8>that engages in this kind of averant behavior, like it

0:50:51.680 --> 0:50:55.560
<v Speaker 8>could be something that is so so out of bounds

0:50:55.600 --> 0:50:58.040
<v Speaker 8>that we can't imagine it. But for him it could

0:50:58.160 --> 0:51:00.000
<v Speaker 8>very well be his own personal reaction.

0:51:01.880 --> 0:51:05.600
<v Speaker 5>Can you briefly remind me of the checklist? What are

0:51:05.600 --> 0:51:08.719
<v Speaker 5>you referring to? Was that something that Huerman had.

0:51:09.000 --> 0:51:12.279
<v Speaker 8>A Well, it's something that was recovered digitally, you know,

0:51:12.719 --> 0:51:16.520
<v Speaker 8>that had been banked by him, and it's a checklist,

0:51:17.480 --> 0:51:20.680
<v Speaker 8>you know, like the older I've gotten a knee checklist

0:51:20.719 --> 0:51:23.840
<v Speaker 8>in my life, so just to make sure I'm going

0:51:23.920 --> 0:51:26.600
<v Speaker 8>to cover everything. But for somebody like this, it's trying

0:51:26.640 --> 0:51:29.319
<v Speaker 8>to dodge dodge the police or trying to keep them

0:51:29.360 --> 0:51:31.719
<v Speaker 8>off sent so that he doesn't. I mean, we're talking

0:51:31.719 --> 0:51:35.160
<v Speaker 8>about we're talking about mid level forensic skills here, where

0:51:35.520 --> 0:51:38.640
<v Speaker 8>he's trying to defeat anything that we might do going

0:51:38.719 --> 0:51:41.520
<v Speaker 8>out to the scene to recover evidence. He's trying to

0:51:41.560 --> 0:51:44.680
<v Speaker 8>defeat that preemptively. And so that's how much thought he's

0:51:44.719 --> 0:51:48.000
<v Speaker 8>putting into wearing gloves, cleaning up after himself, all that

0:51:48.080 --> 0:51:48.400
<v Speaker 8>sort of.

0:51:48.640 --> 0:51:51.000
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, real, I mean, I don't even know what to

0:51:51.040 --> 0:51:53.120
<v Speaker 5>say beyond a real life dexter.

0:51:53.360 --> 0:51:54.040
<v Speaker 3>Do not forget.

0:51:54.040 --> 0:51:55.680
<v Speaker 5>If you miss any part of the show, you can

0:51:55.719 --> 0:51:59.200
<v Speaker 5>always catch the podcast and we want to hear from you.

0:51:59.239 --> 0:52:01.640
<v Speaker 5>Give us a call. We're at eighty eight three on Crime,

0:52:02.120 --> 0:52:04.200
<v Speaker 5>or you can get with us on socials. We are

0:52:04.239 --> 0:52:07.520
<v Speaker 5>at True Crime Tonight's show on TikTok and Instagram and

0:52:07.600 --> 0:52:11.759
<v Speaker 5>True Crime Tonight on Facebook. But now body, let's get

0:52:11.760 --> 0:52:12.160
<v Speaker 5>into it.

0:52:12.480 --> 0:52:16.759
<v Speaker 4>Okay, So I want to talk about Suzanne Morphew. So

0:52:17.120 --> 0:52:22.239
<v Speaker 4>let me so, Barry Morphew, this is such a complicated

0:52:22.280 --> 0:52:25.279
<v Speaker 4>story to get into. It's a it's a really big

0:52:25.360 --> 0:52:27.120
<v Speaker 4>case and we're definitely going to be talking about it

0:52:27.160 --> 0:52:30.759
<v Speaker 4>a lot. Suzanne Morphew's husband, Suzanne Morphuw, went missing in

0:52:30.760 --> 0:52:31.400
<v Speaker 4>twenty twenty.

0:52:31.480 --> 0:52:32.439
<v Speaker 3>Sorry, I have to get this out.

0:52:32.480 --> 0:52:35.200
<v Speaker 4>She went missing in twenty twenty and her husband was

0:52:35.280 --> 0:52:39.839
<v Speaker 4>arrested in twenty twenty one for her murder. Okay, and

0:52:40.480 --> 0:52:43.600
<v Speaker 4>he was let go in twenty twenty two because you know,

0:52:43.680 --> 0:52:47.759
<v Speaker 4>the prosecutors didn't have enough evidence and they were not comfortable,

0:52:47.960 --> 0:52:50.200
<v Speaker 4>you know, moving forward with the case, and there was

0:52:50.200 --> 0:52:53.600
<v Speaker 4>some tomfoolery going on with the prosecutor, so they dismissed

0:52:53.600 --> 0:52:58.000
<v Speaker 4>the charges without prejudice. Okay, so he could be recharged again, Okay,

0:52:58.080 --> 0:53:00.399
<v Speaker 4>So he got They they found her body a year

0:53:00.440 --> 0:53:03.359
<v Speaker 4>after that, in September of twenty three September of twenty

0:53:03.400 --> 0:53:08.280
<v Speaker 4>twenty three, and charges have been re established for her husband,

0:53:08.280 --> 0:53:11.600
<v Speaker 4>Barry more few Okay. So it's kind of a long, complicated,

0:53:12.120 --> 0:53:15.720
<v Speaker 4>you know, timeline. But I want to talk to Joseph,

0:53:15.840 --> 0:53:18.600
<v Speaker 4>thank god he's here, because I want to know what

0:53:18.719 --> 0:53:22.800
<v Speaker 4>makes this different this time around? What makes us different

0:53:22.840 --> 0:53:25.680
<v Speaker 4>this time around from Barrie's first rest. We know that

0:53:25.840 --> 0:53:28.600
<v Speaker 4>the body, right that clearly that's the big difference, right,

0:53:28.800 --> 0:53:32.520
<v Speaker 4>But what is the most compelling forensic details that we

0:53:32.600 --> 0:53:37.160
<v Speaker 4>know about Joseph that you can tell us that led prosecutors,

0:53:37.239 --> 0:53:40.960
<v Speaker 4>you think, to re establishing charges for him?

0:53:41.280 --> 0:53:44.360
<v Speaker 8>Two pieces here. I think, first off, they have a

0:53:44.400 --> 0:53:50.040
<v Speaker 8>team of forensic anthropologists, a team that consists of forensic anthropologists,

0:53:50.120 --> 0:53:53.960
<v Speaker 8>person that studies human skelet or remains, a forensic entomologist

0:53:54.200 --> 0:53:58.600
<v Speaker 8>that studies bugs, and a forensic botanist discub that you know,

0:53:58.800 --> 0:54:03.439
<v Speaker 8>understands the local flora, all right, because in forensics, we'll

0:54:03.440 --> 0:54:07.279
<v Speaker 8>look for pollen deposited on clothing, like, for instance, where

0:54:07.280 --> 0:54:10.319
<v Speaker 8>Suzanne's remains were found, she has a particular type of

0:54:10.360 --> 0:54:13.400
<v Speaker 8>pollen that's not associated with that area. That gives you

0:54:13.440 --> 0:54:16.080
<v Speaker 8>that's a clue for them, you know, try to understand

0:54:16.320 --> 0:54:18.000
<v Speaker 8>what the orgy, you know, why does she have this

0:54:18.040 --> 0:54:20.959
<v Speaker 8>particular type of pollen on her clothing. So you bring

0:54:21.040 --> 0:54:23.600
<v Speaker 8>all of these into the mix. But the conclusion that

0:54:23.640 --> 0:54:27.239
<v Speaker 8>they arrived at relative to her remains, which were in

0:54:27.239 --> 0:54:32.400
<v Speaker 8>a state of skeletonization or had been skeletonized, was that

0:54:32.880 --> 0:54:37.319
<v Speaker 8>more than likely her body did not arrive in the

0:54:37.360 --> 0:54:40.759
<v Speaker 8>condition in which it was found in this location. Just

0:54:40.840 --> 0:54:43.440
<v Speaker 8>let that sink in for a second. In other words,

0:54:43.600 --> 0:54:46.960
<v Speaker 8>that means that she may, according to them, may have

0:54:47.480 --> 0:54:50.000
<v Speaker 8>been allowed to decompose somewhere else and then she was

0:54:50.080 --> 0:54:51.640
<v Speaker 8>redeposited in this location.

0:54:52.160 --> 0:54:54.000
<v Speaker 4>In fact, now that you're speaking about that, we have

0:54:54.040 --> 0:54:55.600
<v Speaker 4>a talk back regarding this case.

0:54:55.600 --> 0:54:56.919
<v Speaker 3>Can we go and play that talk about?

0:54:57.000 --> 0:54:57.080
<v Speaker 2>Yes?

0:54:57.120 --> 0:54:59.040
<v Speaker 8>Sure, Hey, this is Judy in Vegas.

0:54:59.160 --> 0:55:01.440
<v Speaker 3>I have a question about the Colorado case.

0:55:01.719 --> 0:55:06.600
<v Speaker 5>Does the forendics show that the mom was moved after

0:55:06.760 --> 0:55:08.000
<v Speaker 5>her body decomposed?

0:55:08.719 --> 0:55:10.719
<v Speaker 3>I think that'd be interesting to figure out.

0:55:11.680 --> 0:55:14.200
<v Speaker 4>So she asked that was She asked if does the

0:55:14.239 --> 0:55:18.319
<v Speaker 4>forensics tell us if the body was moved after she decomposed?

0:55:18.600 --> 0:55:20.960
<v Speaker 4>So it's kind of what you were just talking about, right, Joseph,

0:55:21.239 --> 0:55:22.040
<v Speaker 4>she was moved?

0:55:22.080 --> 0:55:22.440
<v Speaker 3>Correct?

0:55:22.960 --> 0:55:25.520
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, and great question, Jody, You're right, And I think

0:55:25.520 --> 0:55:28.200
<v Speaker 8>that that's look that that's going to play into this

0:55:28.320 --> 0:55:30.080
<v Speaker 8>case as it begins to develop.

0:55:30.320 --> 0:55:33.600
<v Speaker 4>You know, I wonder when he got released, when the

0:55:33.719 --> 0:55:37.600
<v Speaker 4>when the charges were dropped, did he get a wild

0:55:37.920 --> 0:55:40.920
<v Speaker 4>inclination in his head to move her body?

0:55:41.000 --> 0:55:44.040
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, because you do have people that will go out

0:55:44.120 --> 0:55:47.359
<v Speaker 8>and remove remains. I've had cases where people have had

0:55:47.480 --> 0:55:49.880
<v Speaker 8>dug up remains that they buried and moved them to

0:55:49.960 --> 0:55:53.440
<v Speaker 8>another location. That's not fiction. It's not like you see.

0:55:53.200 --> 0:55:54.240
<v Speaker 9>That on a movie.

0:55:56.520 --> 0:56:01.240
<v Speaker 2>He has children with her, like, this is the mother

0:56:01.560 --> 0:56:05.840
<v Speaker 2>of his children who was allegedly out on mother's day

0:56:06.120 --> 0:56:09.360
<v Speaker 2>of all days. Yeah, and what he faked a bike

0:56:09.440 --> 0:56:13.840
<v Speaker 2>accident and then suddenly decided to dispose of her body,

0:56:14.280 --> 0:56:17.080
<v Speaker 2>get arrested, get released.

0:56:16.719 --> 0:56:19.000
<v Speaker 3>And then he went and changed the.

0:56:18.920 --> 0:56:23.000
<v Speaker 2>Location or dug her up or redressed her like. All

0:56:23.040 --> 0:56:26.680
<v Speaker 2>of that just sounds so unbelievably sick.

0:56:26.920 --> 0:56:30.160
<v Speaker 3>It's hard to wrap our brains around it does.

0:56:30.280 --> 0:56:32.719
<v Speaker 8>And I got to tell you, for me personally, from

0:56:32.760 --> 0:56:35.920
<v Speaker 8>a forensics perspective, I am just as interested in the

0:56:35.960 --> 0:56:39.960
<v Speaker 8>location where she was initially located in I am relative

0:56:40.000 --> 0:56:42.160
<v Speaker 8>to where she was found. And I think that there's

0:56:42.480 --> 0:56:47.120
<v Speaker 8>potential to find some evidence, some residual evidence at that location.

0:56:47.680 --> 0:56:50.839
<v Speaker 8>And one other thing I think is important here, how

0:56:50.880 --> 0:56:55.280
<v Speaker 8>intact worthy skeletal remains, because you know, with skeletal remains

0:56:55.360 --> 0:56:57.839
<v Speaker 8>we lose bits and pieces. We've got all of these

0:56:57.880 --> 0:57:01.759
<v Speaker 8>bothes in our body structure of the hands alone, there's

0:57:01.760 --> 0:57:03.839
<v Speaker 8>a chance you can lose things along the way.

0:57:04.160 --> 0:57:06.680
<v Speaker 4>Oh gosh, it's terrible to think about. This is true

0:57:06.680 --> 0:57:09.239
<v Speaker 4>crime Tonight on iHeartRadio, I'm Body Moved, and I'm here

0:57:09.239 --> 0:57:11.840
<v Speaker 4>with Courtney Armstrong and Stephanie Leidecker, and we are talking

0:57:11.840 --> 0:57:15.680
<v Speaker 4>with the lovely Joseph Scott Morgan about the Suzanne Morphy murder.

0:57:15.880 --> 0:57:16.360
<v Speaker 3>If you have a.

0:57:16.320 --> 0:57:18.200
<v Speaker 4>Question or opinion, give us a call at eighty eight

0:57:18.320 --> 0:57:20.280
<v Speaker 4>thirty one Crime, or tell us your thoughts on the

0:57:20.360 --> 0:57:24.440
<v Speaker 4>talkbacks using the heart radio app Joseph. One thing we

0:57:24.480 --> 0:57:27.640
<v Speaker 4>talked about this past week was some new information about

0:57:27.640 --> 0:57:30.240
<v Speaker 4>a needle cap that was found in the dryer. What

0:57:30.760 --> 0:57:32.440
<v Speaker 4>do you think that says about him? What does that

0:57:32.480 --> 0:57:33.120
<v Speaker 4>tell us?

0:57:33.280 --> 0:57:33.800
<v Speaker 3>Do you think?

0:57:34.480 --> 0:57:34.880
<v Speaker 9>I don't know.

0:57:34.920 --> 0:57:37.480
<v Speaker 8>I think you need defense. Attorney would say, so what,

0:57:37.600 --> 0:57:39.800
<v Speaker 8>he's got a needle cap in his pocket. You know

0:57:40.000 --> 0:57:43.200
<v Speaker 8>that in his clothes. You know that are found in

0:57:43.240 --> 0:57:45.160
<v Speaker 8>the dryer. He found it in the yard. He just

0:57:45.200 --> 0:57:48.080
<v Speaker 8>picked it up. Doesn't like trash and jar Okay, so

0:57:48.400 --> 0:57:51.160
<v Speaker 8>all right, that's the story you're going with. But you

0:57:51.200 --> 0:57:54.840
<v Speaker 8>think about this, this compound that's being utilized, which, by

0:57:54.880 --> 0:57:56.960
<v Speaker 8>the way, correct me if I'm wrong. You guys might

0:57:57.000 --> 0:57:58.840
<v Speaker 8>have a bit more insight. I think he was like

0:57:59.040 --> 0:58:01.120
<v Speaker 8>one of the few people in state that actually had

0:58:01.200 --> 0:58:04.800
<v Speaker 8>access to this and the one may have been brought

0:58:04.800 --> 0:58:08.280
<v Speaker 8>in from somewhere else, This bam compound and nothing for

0:58:08.440 --> 0:58:11.440
<v Speaker 8>everybody with the details that you've got a drug compound

0:58:11.440 --> 0:58:16.560
<v Speaker 8>that literally can be used as it's used in anesthesia,

0:58:17.080 --> 0:58:22.360
<v Speaker 8>anti anxiety, and also like a muscle relaxing. She anybody

0:58:22.360 --> 0:58:25.280
<v Speaker 8>that's hit with the stuff, and it's made to use

0:58:25.360 --> 0:58:28.520
<v Speaker 8>for medium sized game, you know, like a mule deer

0:58:28.800 --> 0:58:29.760
<v Speaker 8>or a white tail.

0:58:30.680 --> 0:58:32.240
<v Speaker 9>I guess you could use it on an help you

0:58:32.280 --> 0:58:32.600
<v Speaker 9>had to.

0:58:34.200 --> 0:58:38.280
<v Speaker 8>This little lady. She's not gonna she doesn't have someboll's

0:58:38.360 --> 0:58:41.000
<v Speaker 8>chance in hell if if this is injected in or

0:58:41.040 --> 0:58:43.720
<v Speaker 8>she's going out. Now I'm not saying it's lethal. What

0:58:43.760 --> 0:58:46.120
<v Speaker 8>I am saying though, she's going to go into that

0:58:46.160 --> 0:58:48.760
<v Speaker 8>deep dark place that we can all identify with if we,

0:58:48.960 --> 0:58:51.160
<v Speaker 8>any of us, have ever had surgery you have any

0:58:51.160 --> 0:58:52.920
<v Speaker 8>control over it, that's what.

0:58:52.960 --> 0:58:53.720
<v Speaker 9>Would have happened.

0:58:54.080 --> 0:58:57.840
<v Speaker 8>And the idea that there was a dark gun which

0:58:57.920 --> 0:59:00.240
<v Speaker 8>this is administered with, you know, like you could to

0:59:00.280 --> 0:59:05.400
<v Speaker 8>animal or a dark gun functioning dark gun. Yeah, that

0:59:05.600 --> 0:59:09.200
<v Speaker 8>was there. And it can also be administered with a

0:59:09.280 --> 0:59:13.360
<v Speaker 8>hypodermic needle. It doesn't have to go directly into the

0:59:13.480 --> 0:59:17.200
<v Speaker 8>venus system. It can actually go uh its eye am

0:59:17.400 --> 0:59:21.200
<v Speaker 8>which is intramuscular, which means it can be ejected injected

0:59:21.280 --> 0:59:23.880
<v Speaker 8>right into say the fleshy part of the body like

0:59:23.920 --> 0:59:26.320
<v Speaker 8>the buttock, and then you're going down, it's going to

0:59:26.360 --> 0:59:29.400
<v Speaker 8>be lights out. So the fact that he had that

0:59:29.440 --> 0:59:32.120
<v Speaker 8>needle cap is I don't I'm not going to say

0:59:32.120 --> 0:59:34.680
<v Speaker 8>it's damning, but it's a if you think about a

0:59:34.760 --> 0:59:36.960
<v Speaker 8>jigsaw puzzle, it might be one of those little pieces

0:59:36.960 --> 0:59:38.720
<v Speaker 8>that where's that other piece? Oh?

0:59:38.760 --> 0:59:39.240
<v Speaker 9>Here it is.

0:59:39.240 --> 0:59:41.600
<v Speaker 8>It's the needle cap and that slips into the spot.

0:59:42.880 --> 0:59:45.720
<v Speaker 3>And now she would be unconscious, is that right? She wouldn't.

0:59:45.800 --> 0:59:48.480
<v Speaker 4>She wouldn't have any consciousness of her like, she wouldn't

0:59:48.520 --> 0:59:50.800
<v Speaker 4>be like paralyzed with thoughts.

0:59:51.600 --> 0:59:55.440
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, yeah, that's an excellent question, I think I've heard

0:59:55.520 --> 0:59:59.040
<v Speaker 8>again looking at Yeah, I don't. I don't know either,

0:59:59.040 --> 1:00:01.080
<v Speaker 8>because we don't know what kind of DOSAG may have

1:00:01.160 --> 1:00:03.680
<v Speaker 8>been administered. And if I can just kind of chime

1:00:03.720 --> 1:00:07.400
<v Speaker 8>in on this very briefly, this BAM compound has actually

1:00:07.440 --> 1:00:11.640
<v Speaker 8>been found in her skeletal remains. Now understand this because

1:00:11.680 --> 1:00:13.760
<v Speaker 8>there's gonna be a lot of questions about this. Did

1:00:13.760 --> 1:00:18.439
<v Speaker 8>he O d her allegedly? Well, we can't determine that

1:00:18.520 --> 1:00:21.120
<v Speaker 8>with skeletal remains. All we can do with this is

1:00:21.160 --> 1:00:24.560
<v Speaker 8>say we have what are called in toxic forensic toxicology,

1:00:24.600 --> 1:00:29.320
<v Speaker 8>you have what's called a qualitative amount and a quantitative amount.

1:00:29.520 --> 1:00:32.400
<v Speaker 8>We can give you a qualitative say, if you do

1:00:32.480 --> 1:00:35.040
<v Speaker 8>a core sample of the bone and you spin it down,

1:00:35.680 --> 1:00:38.280
<v Speaker 8>you can actually say, okay, this compound is there, but

1:00:38.320 --> 1:00:41.680
<v Speaker 8>I can't tell you how much is there. In medicine,

1:00:41.720 --> 1:00:45.280
<v Speaker 8>you have things like therapeutic levels and lethal levels, and

1:00:45.280 --> 1:00:49.520
<v Speaker 8>that's a quantitative amount. We can merely qualify it. I

1:00:49.520 --> 1:00:52.400
<v Speaker 8>don't know if anybody that can actually say that they

1:00:52.440 --> 1:00:55.760
<v Speaker 8>can quantitate that amount. Maybe somebody has a magic insight

1:00:55.840 --> 1:00:58.240
<v Speaker 8>into that, but as far as I know, you can't

1:00:58.280 --> 1:00:59.760
<v Speaker 8>put a specific number on.

1:01:00.400 --> 1:01:03.600
<v Speaker 4>But what we do know is that the medicine metabolized,

1:01:03.640 --> 1:01:05.680
<v Speaker 4>which means and correct me if I'm wrong, Joseph, because

1:01:05.720 --> 1:01:07.720
<v Speaker 4>I need it. But what that means is that she

1:01:07.920 --> 1:01:11.000
<v Speaker 4>was alive long enough for her body to process some

1:01:11.040 --> 1:01:12.080
<v Speaker 4>of the drug, right.

1:01:12.320 --> 1:01:15.320
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, yes, absolutely right, that it was an uptake into

1:01:15.320 --> 1:01:18.400
<v Speaker 8>her system and it actually made I think, I think

1:01:18.560 --> 1:01:19.959
<v Speaker 8>probably into the bone barrow.

1:01:20.200 --> 1:01:21.280
<v Speaker 3>Oh god.

1:01:21.320 --> 1:01:24.240
<v Speaker 4>So I wonder if he knocked her out and like

1:01:24.400 --> 1:01:27.520
<v Speaker 4>transported her somewhere, you know, maybe to the hotel room

1:01:27.600 --> 1:01:29.880
<v Speaker 4>or the bleach. So he was supposed to be at work,

1:01:30.200 --> 1:01:33.520
<v Speaker 4>and he was at this hotel room, and when workers

1:01:33.520 --> 1:01:35.280
<v Speaker 4>I think went into the hotel room or the police

1:01:35.320 --> 1:01:38.040
<v Speaker 4>or somebody went into the hotel room. It smelled of bleach, right,

1:01:38.320 --> 1:01:39.160
<v Speaker 4>so I wonder if.

1:01:39.040 --> 1:01:40.160
<v Speaker 8>He transported her.

1:01:40.400 --> 1:01:42.600
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, oh that's horrific.

1:01:42.880 --> 1:01:45.800
<v Speaker 4>Stick around next because we're going to be talking more

1:01:45.840 --> 1:01:48.640
<v Speaker 4>with Joseph Scott Morgan. And there's an unsolved murder in

1:01:48.680 --> 1:01:51.680
<v Speaker 4>Atlanta's Piedmont Park and don't forget give us a call

1:01:51.760 --> 1:01:54.360
<v Speaker 4>at eight eight eight thirty one Crime with your thoughts

1:01:54.440 --> 1:01:57.400
<v Speaker 4>on any of Tonight's stories. Keep it here some kind.

1:01:57.200 --> 1:02:10.760
<v Speaker 2>Of welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're

1:02:10.840 --> 1:02:14.160
<v Speaker 2>talking true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker, and

1:02:14.160 --> 1:02:16.840
<v Speaker 2>I head up KT Studios where we make true crime

1:02:16.920 --> 1:02:20.400
<v Speaker 2>podcasts and documentaries and I get to do that with

1:02:20.520 --> 1:02:23.920
<v Speaker 2>crime analyst Body move In and crime producer and host

1:02:24.040 --> 1:02:28.280
<v Speaker 2>Courtney Armstrong. And we are here with forensics expert Joseph

1:02:28.320 --> 1:02:30.240
<v Speaker 2>Scott Morgan, who's breaking.

1:02:29.920 --> 1:02:32.360
<v Speaker 3>All scary things down for us. Listen.

1:02:32.360 --> 1:02:34.600
<v Speaker 2>If you want to join us, please call eight eight

1:02:34.640 --> 1:02:37.400
<v Speaker 2>eight three one Crime, or you could always hit us

1:02:37.440 --> 1:02:40.440
<v Speaker 2>up on our socials at True Crime Tonight's show on

1:02:40.480 --> 1:02:44.880
<v Speaker 2>TikTok and Instagram, or at True Crime Tonight on Facebook,

1:02:45.240 --> 1:02:47.840
<v Speaker 2>and you could also do a talk back if you

1:02:47.960 --> 1:02:51.440
<v Speaker 2>download the iHeart app. You just push the right hand

1:02:51.640 --> 1:02:54.040
<v Speaker 2>button and then you just leave a little message and

1:02:54.080 --> 1:02:56.360
<v Speaker 2>then we'll play that message in the show and then

1:02:56.440 --> 1:03:00.400
<v Speaker 2>we can respond to real time. So, Joseph, I know

1:03:00.440 --> 1:03:03.760
<v Speaker 2>you've been following closely a case in Atlanta, very disturbing,

1:03:03.880 --> 1:03:07.160
<v Speaker 2>So trigger alert for all, Joseph, take it away.

1:03:07.600 --> 1:03:12.440
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, So this case is something that has been ongoing.

1:03:12.600 --> 1:03:15.320
<v Speaker 8>This is an unsolved hom side that I'm referring to,

1:03:15.440 --> 1:03:17.840
<v Speaker 8>and this goes all the way back to July twenty eighth,

1:03:18.000 --> 1:03:22.760
<v Speaker 8>twenty twenty one, and obviously we're approaching I guess the

1:03:22.920 --> 1:03:27.960
<v Speaker 8>fourth anniversary of arguably one of the most single horrific

1:03:28.320 --> 1:03:32.880
<v Speaker 8>homicides in the Atlanta area in years and years. And

1:03:32.920 --> 1:03:35.800
<v Speaker 8>what I'm talking about is the murder of a young

1:03:35.880 --> 1:03:39.040
<v Speaker 8>lady named Katie Janice, who is out walking her dog

1:03:39.280 --> 1:03:43.680
<v Speaker 8>in a location that's very familiar to people that are

1:03:43.720 --> 1:03:46.640
<v Speaker 8>from the Atlanta area. It's called Piedmont Park. It's kind

1:03:46.640 --> 1:03:49.160
<v Speaker 8>of like I think Atlanta's like to refer to it

1:03:49.200 --> 1:03:53.160
<v Speaker 8>as their central park if you will. Weekends, you know,

1:03:53.200 --> 1:03:56.920
<v Speaker 8>you've got families out there with kids walking dogs, people jogging,

1:03:57.000 --> 1:04:00.480
<v Speaker 8>all these sorts of things. But on this particular night,

1:04:00.880 --> 1:04:02.320
<v Speaker 8>Katie had gone out with her.

1:04:02.360 --> 1:04:04.160
<v Speaker 9>Dog to take the dog for a walk.

1:04:04.280 --> 1:04:07.479
<v Speaker 8>She'd gotten off work she worked as a bartender. And

1:04:08.560 --> 1:04:11.600
<v Speaker 8>the next thing you know, Katie is found along the

1:04:11.680 --> 1:04:16.440
<v Speaker 8>pathway there in Piedmont Park and she has over fifty

1:04:16.920 --> 1:04:21.200
<v Speaker 8>five sharp force injuries to her body. Her dog has

1:04:21.240 --> 1:04:25.600
<v Speaker 8>been brutally stabbed to death as well. And this is

1:04:26.240 --> 1:04:29.000
<v Speaker 8>if I remember correctly. This dog is a pit bull.

1:04:30.600 --> 1:04:33.600
<v Speaker 8>So there's so much to be red. Yeah, they are

1:04:33.720 --> 1:04:38.840
<v Speaker 8>in other pit bulls that are sweet, you know, sweet,

1:04:38.880 --> 1:04:40.760
<v Speaker 8>and a lot of it depends upon the die. I

1:04:40.760 --> 1:04:45.560
<v Speaker 8>think it's like any dog, you know, real nasty reputation.

1:04:45.680 --> 1:04:48.000
<v Speaker 8>But yeah, they can be just little angels. I'm a

1:04:48.000 --> 1:04:52.640
<v Speaker 8>big dog person, so yeah, I mean, and to me,

1:04:53.360 --> 1:04:55.800
<v Speaker 8>when you can kill a pit bull, you can get

1:04:55.800 --> 1:04:58.480
<v Speaker 8>close enough in with a knife to do that. I

1:04:58.480 --> 1:05:02.160
<v Speaker 8>don't know. To me, that's as was there a familiarity

1:05:02.240 --> 1:05:05.960
<v Speaker 8>between the perpetrator and the dog, because you know, if

1:05:06.000 --> 1:05:08.520
<v Speaker 8>you're out with your master, dogs out with their masters,

1:05:08.960 --> 1:05:10.120
<v Speaker 8>they're going to protect their masks.

1:05:10.200 --> 1:05:13.520
<v Speaker 2>You're going to protect their master at all costs. Yeah,

1:05:13.600 --> 1:05:14.959
<v Speaker 2>that's a getting they.

1:05:14.880 --> 1:05:17.480
<v Speaker 8>Will, Yeah, and the dog was found a bit of

1:05:17.520 --> 1:05:21.200
<v Speaker 8>a distance, not along all ways away from Katie. And

1:05:21.880 --> 1:05:24.720
<v Speaker 8>still to this day they don't have any or at

1:05:24.800 --> 1:05:28.040
<v Speaker 8>least they have not released any kind of firm answers here.

1:05:28.080 --> 1:05:30.200
<v Speaker 8>But I think one of the things that this really

1:05:30.200 --> 1:05:35.120
<v Speaker 8>speaks to is the degree to which she suffered. This

1:05:35.280 --> 1:05:38.480
<v Speaker 8>is a torturous death, because it's not like it's merely

1:05:38.800 --> 1:05:42.320
<v Speaker 8>notice I said that she sustained fifty sharp horse injuries.

1:05:42.360 --> 1:05:45.760
<v Speaker 8>I didn't say stabloids. There were stab wounds, but these

1:05:45.800 --> 1:05:49.800
<v Speaker 8>are also co mingled with incised wounds.

1:05:49.840 --> 1:05:50.080
<v Speaker 9>Either.

1:05:51.240 --> 1:05:55.280
<v Speaker 8>In my opinion, at least, there's there's a strong element

1:05:55.360 --> 1:06:00.440
<v Speaker 8>here of disfigurement, of sexualization. The breasts have been sliced

1:06:00.760 --> 1:06:03.800
<v Speaker 8>and the face has been sliced all the way down

1:06:03.880 --> 1:06:07.840
<v Speaker 8>to the gum line, if you will. She was disfigured.

1:06:08.400 --> 1:06:13.160
<v Speaker 8>And I think probably the worst part about this when

1:06:13.560 --> 1:06:16.360
<v Speaker 8>they finally did the exam on her body, it was

1:06:16.400 --> 1:06:20.480
<v Speaker 8>discovered that a word had actually been carved into her

1:06:20.600 --> 1:06:26.520
<v Speaker 8>chest and abdomen. And again that's you know, who does

1:06:26.560 --> 1:06:29.680
<v Speaker 8>that in public? This is a public area. Anybody could

1:06:29.680 --> 1:06:32.840
<v Speaker 8>have been walking by who feels that comfortable doing this

1:06:33.040 --> 1:06:36.400
<v Speaker 8>level of mutilation, That we're talking about here.

1:06:36.520 --> 1:06:41.400
<v Speaker 9>And still still this thing is not solved.

1:06:41.400 --> 1:06:45.760
<v Speaker 8>That we there have been really no recent updates. As

1:06:45.800 --> 1:06:48.200
<v Speaker 8>a matter of fact, the police are still saying to

1:06:48.240 --> 1:06:50.800
<v Speaker 8>this day, if you have any information, police calls as

1:06:50.840 --> 1:06:52.320
<v Speaker 8>the Atlanta Homicide Division.

1:06:52.520 --> 1:06:53.200
<v Speaker 3>Oh my goodness.

1:06:53.280 --> 1:06:53.480
<v Speaker 6>Right.

1:06:53.560 --> 1:06:58.640
<v Speaker 5>There have been extensive investigations by the Atlanta Police and

1:06:58.680 --> 1:07:02.400
<v Speaker 5>the FBI and the Georgia Bureau of Investigation. And like

1:07:02.440 --> 1:07:05.960
<v Speaker 5>you said, Joseph, with that, the case is unsolved, no arrest,

1:07:06.680 --> 1:07:10.160
<v Speaker 5>but still active and they are now focusing on DNA evidence.

1:07:10.200 --> 1:07:13.560
<v Speaker 5>They're hoping some new lead will present itself in the case.

1:07:13.960 --> 1:07:14.560
<v Speaker 3>I sure hope.

1:07:14.600 --> 1:07:17.360
<v Speaker 4>So this is your crime tonight on iHeartRadio. I'm Boddy

1:07:17.360 --> 1:07:20.320
<v Speaker 4>Movin and I'm here with Stephanie Leidecker and Courtney Armstrong.

1:07:20.400 --> 1:07:24.400
<v Speaker 4>We're joined by Joseph Scott Morgan, and we're talking about

1:07:24.600 --> 1:07:26.400
<v Speaker 4>Katie Jenesi's unsolved.

1:07:26.080 --> 1:07:27.560
<v Speaker 3>Murder out of Atlanta, Georgia.

1:07:27.680 --> 1:07:29.320
<v Speaker 4>If you have a question or opinion, give us a

1:07:29.320 --> 1:07:31.960
<v Speaker 4>call at eighty eight eight thirty on crime, or tell

1:07:32.000 --> 1:07:35.080
<v Speaker 4>us your thoughts on the talkbacks on the iHeartRadio app.

1:07:35.320 --> 1:07:37.880
<v Speaker 3>So, Joseph, the word that.

1:07:37.880 --> 1:07:42.240
<v Speaker 4>Was carved into her abdomen, it was fat.

1:07:42.800 --> 1:07:46.960
<v Speaker 3>Is that right? Yes, fat, And they're sure that it

1:07:47.000 --> 1:07:47.560
<v Speaker 3>was fat.

1:07:48.080 --> 1:07:48.480
<v Speaker 9>Yeah.

1:07:48.600 --> 1:07:51.800
<v Speaker 8>Yeah. As a matter of fact, the pathologist that did

1:07:51.840 --> 1:07:57.120
<v Speaker 8>the examination goes to great length to describe this, and

1:07:57.520 --> 1:08:01.120
<v Speaker 8>I hate to even mention this, but guys, there's hemorrhage

1:08:01.120 --> 1:08:04.440
<v Speaker 8>in dwelling in these injuries, and that means that she

1:08:04.600 --> 1:08:09.240
<v Speaker 8>was live while this was being done. Yeah, so, or

1:08:09.240 --> 1:08:12.280
<v Speaker 8>at least she was in We've got three stages in death.

1:08:12.360 --> 1:08:15.800
<v Speaker 8>We've got anti mortem, which means before death, and everybody's

1:08:15.840 --> 1:08:19.120
<v Speaker 8>heard post mortal, but there's also a stage called perry mortal,

1:08:19.200 --> 1:08:19.599
<v Speaker 8>which is.

1:08:19.520 --> 1:08:21.760
<v Speaker 9>That kind of twilight area where you.

1:08:21.720 --> 1:08:24.960
<v Speaker 8>Can still have hemorrhage into wounds and that sort of thing.

1:08:25.200 --> 1:08:30.000
<v Speaker 8>And yeah, there's indwelling hemorrhage in these wounds. That goes

1:08:30.040 --> 1:08:33.280
<v Speaker 8>to tell you how sickening this is and how sick

1:08:33.400 --> 1:08:41.240
<v Speaker 8>this act was a park and again and Peedmont Park, Yeah,

1:08:41.680 --> 1:08:45.840
<v Speaker 8>very popular, probably the most well known park in Atlanta,

1:08:46.880 --> 1:08:49.800
<v Speaker 8>and a lot of foot traffic through their guys, And look,

1:08:49.840 --> 1:08:52.040
<v Speaker 8>I used to work in Atlanta with a medical examiner.

1:08:52.080 --> 1:08:54.839
<v Speaker 8>I was an EMMY investigator there for many, many years,

1:08:54.880 --> 1:08:58.280
<v Speaker 8>and I've worked cases in Piedmont Park, but most of

1:08:58.280 --> 1:09:00.519
<v Speaker 8>the time that had to do with. If it was

1:09:00.520 --> 1:09:04.040
<v Speaker 8>a homicide, it would be like, you know, some homeless

1:09:04.080 --> 1:09:07.439
<v Speaker 8>guy that might stab somebody and then they would flee.

1:09:08.000 --> 1:09:10.639
<v Speaker 8>You know, we talked earlier. Do you remember what we

1:09:10.640 --> 1:09:13.720
<v Speaker 8>were talking about with Jurman Earlier? I mentioned about the

1:09:13.840 --> 1:09:20.040
<v Speaker 8>element of time. Somebody hovered over her for a protracted

1:09:20.160 --> 1:09:23.600
<v Speaker 8>period of time perpetrating this. This was not like a

1:09:23.680 --> 1:09:25.720
<v Speaker 8>quick one off event. You're going to run off with

1:09:25.800 --> 1:09:28.599
<v Speaker 8>some kind of valuables. No, that's not what happened. We're

1:09:28.600 --> 1:09:32.760
<v Speaker 8>talking about fifty individual wounds here, all right, and to

1:09:32.840 --> 1:09:35.799
<v Speaker 8>boot we're talking about the animal as well. This takes

1:09:36.040 --> 1:09:41.360
<v Speaker 8>time in order to facilitate this. It's again, it's amazing

1:09:41.400 --> 1:09:44.520
<v Speaker 8>to me. Now I do know that they took blood

1:09:44.560 --> 1:09:47.080
<v Speaker 8>samples from her. Obviously they're going to do talks, but

1:09:47.120 --> 1:09:50.719
<v Speaker 8>they've got blood cards which we create in the lab.

1:09:50.840 --> 1:09:53.200
<v Speaker 8>Or we'll put a droplet on a blater cart and

1:09:53.280 --> 1:09:56.800
<v Speaker 8>hang on to that. I think the question is were

1:09:57.040 --> 1:09:59.719
<v Speaker 8>how successful were they in retrieving any kind of blood

1:09:59.720 --> 1:10:02.840
<v Speaker 8>of it from her clothing? Was the dog's blood on

1:10:02.920 --> 1:10:06.120
<v Speaker 8>the clothing, because if you have the dog's blood on

1:10:06.160 --> 1:10:08.800
<v Speaker 8>the clothing, that would indicate that maybe the dog was

1:10:08.880 --> 1:10:12.400
<v Speaker 8>killed first. And then she was killed vice versa. How

1:10:12.760 --> 1:10:14.960
<v Speaker 8>good of an exam did they do on the dog's body?

1:10:15.080 --> 1:10:17.680
<v Speaker 8>Was Katie's blood found on the on the body of

1:10:17.680 --> 1:10:21.240
<v Speaker 8>the dog, you know, embedded in the fur. And did

1:10:21.280 --> 1:10:25.719
<v Speaker 8>the perpetrator leave anything behind? Did they cut themselves which

1:10:25.760 --> 1:10:28.920
<v Speaker 8>happens very frequently, you know in Sharpforce's injury case.

1:10:29.080 --> 1:10:32.400
<v Speaker 4>Does the overkill here in this lead to like a

1:10:32.439 --> 1:10:36.799
<v Speaker 4>personal motive? Do you think, Joseph, was this a person killing?

1:10:37.160 --> 1:10:40.000
<v Speaker 8>Yeah? I mean why why would you spend this much

1:10:41.360 --> 1:10:44.320
<v Speaker 8>both If listen, if people will just touch your neck

1:10:44.439 --> 1:10:47.000
<v Speaker 8>right now and you find your trachea the externally, you'll

1:10:47.000 --> 1:10:51.320
<v Speaker 8>find that large cartilage's body on either side. On either

1:10:51.400 --> 1:10:55.920
<v Speaker 8>side of your trachia, your karates are there. And so

1:10:56.560 --> 1:10:59.760
<v Speaker 8>both of her karates were cut, not just one, Both

1:10:59.760 --> 1:11:04.800
<v Speaker 8>of her curatits were cut. So that's you know, and

1:11:04.880 --> 1:11:07.240
<v Speaker 8>not to mention, you know the stablins.

1:11:06.720 --> 1:11:09.200
<v Speaker 9>That go through and through or go through.

1:11:08.920 --> 1:11:13.280
<v Speaker 8>Her body cavvy and you know, impact her organs. This

1:11:13.360 --> 1:11:16.000
<v Speaker 8>took a protracted period of tom the person that did

1:11:16.000 --> 1:11:18.679
<v Speaker 8>this would have been super saturated in blood of things.

1:11:18.720 --> 1:11:22.120
<v Speaker 5>It staggers me knowing where this took place. I actually

1:11:22.120 --> 1:11:26.880
<v Speaker 5>spent several months working with Steph on a series with

1:11:27.000 --> 1:11:29.519
<v Speaker 5>Nancy Grace and stayed in Atlanta. I was right near

1:11:29.520 --> 1:11:32.800
<v Speaker 5>Piedmont Park and it is it's just real public and

1:11:32.880 --> 1:11:35.280
<v Speaker 5>people are there all the time. You mentioned families, but

1:11:35.320 --> 1:11:37.920
<v Speaker 5>also walking in the evenings, because I would walk in

1:11:37.960 --> 1:11:41.640
<v Speaker 5>the evenings after work and it was, you know, just bustling.

1:11:41.720 --> 1:11:43.840
<v Speaker 3>So I'm I just am staggered.

1:11:44.280 --> 1:11:49.000
<v Speaker 5>I also want to acknowledge that Katie was known for

1:11:49.040 --> 1:11:54.680
<v Speaker 5>her kindness. She was into social justice advocacy, and she

1:11:54.840 --> 1:11:58.280
<v Speaker 5>has been remembered through park dedications and makeshift memorials.

1:11:58.560 --> 1:12:00.559
<v Speaker 3>I just wanted to make sure that we a moment

1:12:00.720 --> 1:12:02.520
<v Speaker 3>to respect.

1:12:02.200 --> 1:12:05.920
<v Speaker 5>That amid all of this atrocity that was rained down

1:12:06.040 --> 1:12:11.000
<v Speaker 5>upon her, because this is as senseless as and it's.

1:12:10.800 --> 1:12:13.439
<v Speaker 4>And it's so sad because her murder remains unsolved, and

1:12:13.560 --> 1:12:17.320
<v Speaker 4>this listen, everybody deserves to be solved, every murder deserved

1:12:17.320 --> 1:12:19.639
<v Speaker 4>to be solved. But she seems like a pretty extraordinary woman.

1:12:20.080 --> 1:12:22.880
<v Speaker 8>Oh gosh, yeah, this is let me give you, you know,

1:12:23.000 --> 1:12:26.360
<v Speaker 8>let me paint a bit more specific picture. This area

1:12:26.720 --> 1:12:31.680
<v Speaker 8>where she was found is kind of a famous in

1:12:31.720 --> 1:12:36.080
<v Speaker 8>a famous landmark here because this is the first crosswalk

1:12:36.320 --> 1:12:39.200
<v Speaker 8>if you will that was painted with like the rainbow flag.

1:12:39.400 --> 1:12:41.400
<v Speaker 8>All right, and if you look at it, and you

1:12:41.400 --> 1:12:43.599
<v Speaker 8>can go on line and see one image of her

1:12:43.760 --> 1:12:47.559
<v Speaker 8>crossing that crosswalk. But guess what, guys, all the other

1:12:47.640 --> 1:12:51.880
<v Speaker 8>CCTV cameras in that area were not working. At the

1:12:51.920 --> 1:12:53.400
<v Speaker 8>people that work of her.

1:12:53.640 --> 1:12:56.439
<v Speaker 4>Have they looked at the people that are like in

1:12:56.560 --> 1:12:58.600
<v Speaker 4>charge of maintaining those cameras.

1:12:58.520 --> 1:13:01.160
<v Speaker 8>Oh yeah, yeah, And I mean, what are you going

1:13:01.240 --> 1:13:03.400
<v Speaker 8>to do? I mean they'll just say, yeah that we're out,

1:13:03.760 --> 1:13:06.240
<v Speaker 8>you know, And that's essentially the response that you get.

1:13:06.320 --> 1:13:08.920
<v Speaker 8>And politicians will beat their chest and say, well, we've

1:13:08.920 --> 1:13:10.519
<v Speaker 8>been working on this for some time to try to

1:13:10.520 --> 1:13:12.720
<v Speaker 8>get it sick. It never gets resolved. It's one of

1:13:12.760 --> 1:13:15.000
<v Speaker 8>those types of things that you just come to understand

1:13:15.000 --> 1:13:16.960
<v Speaker 8>when you live in a big city, right, But.

1:13:17.360 --> 1:13:19.160
<v Speaker 3>You know, it just seems like every time you need

1:13:19.160 --> 1:13:19.760
<v Speaker 3>them not working.

1:13:19.880 --> 1:13:21.920
<v Speaker 8>Scary thing about it is there's a maniac out there

1:13:21.960 --> 1:13:23.960
<v Speaker 8>that did this, and if the cameras are working, you

1:13:24.040 --> 1:13:25.840
<v Speaker 8>might have had a better chance of catching them.

1:13:25.880 --> 1:13:28.240
<v Speaker 4>You're right about that. Well, later we're going to be

1:13:28.280 --> 1:13:31.120
<v Speaker 4>inviting you to ask questions about any of the cases

1:13:31.120 --> 1:13:33.400
<v Speaker 4>that we've covered tonight. Give us a call eight eight

1:13:33.439 --> 1:13:36.200
<v Speaker 4>eight thirty one crime or use the talkbacks on the

1:13:36.200 --> 1:13:37.840
<v Speaker 4>iHeartRadio app.

1:13:38.439 --> 1:13:41.120
<v Speaker 2>What a Night So Far, Courtney, I know you have

1:13:41.200 --> 1:13:42.920
<v Speaker 2>a question to talk about this case.

1:13:43.120 --> 1:13:45.000
<v Speaker 3>Go ahead fill us in. I do.

1:13:45.240 --> 1:13:48.920
<v Speaker 5>My question is something you referenced earlier, Joseph, and this

1:13:49.000 --> 1:13:52.720
<v Speaker 5>is regarding this Susanne more Few case. It's alleged that

1:13:52.760 --> 1:13:57.439
<v Speaker 5>her husband, Barry murdered her. So you mentioned that in

1:13:57.479 --> 1:14:02.280
<v Speaker 5>the forensic analysis there was a botanists and who studies flowers,

1:14:02.320 --> 1:14:04.920
<v Speaker 5>and there was an entomologist. At what point in the

1:14:05.000 --> 1:14:08.519
<v Speaker 5>process are they brought in and is it how common

1:14:08.720 --> 1:14:12.880
<v Speaker 5>or not are these experts in looking at murders victims.

1:14:13.240 --> 1:14:15.280
<v Speaker 8>Well, at the top of the list, it's going to

1:14:15.280 --> 1:14:20.120
<v Speaker 8>be anthropologists. They're probably they have incredible utility. I've worked

1:14:20.120 --> 1:14:23.479
<v Speaker 8>with them for years. I'm actually frustrated forensic anthropologists that

1:14:23.560 --> 1:14:28.280
<v Speaker 8>I've met my heart, but it requires very specific training.

1:14:29.280 --> 1:14:33.120
<v Speaker 8>Entomologists probably number two on the list. They're consulted quite

1:14:33.160 --> 1:14:36.560
<v Speaker 8>a bit relative to time issues and that goes to

1:14:36.720 --> 1:14:39.960
<v Speaker 8>the life cycle of insects. Really kind of a fascinating

1:14:39.960 --> 1:14:45.000
<v Speaker 8>one though, is forensic botanist the lawn share Those people

1:14:45.160 --> 1:14:49.720
<v Speaker 8>are utilized to study specific well two areas if a

1:14:49.760 --> 1:14:55.000
<v Speaker 8>body has like unknown vegetable matter on the clothing. For

1:14:55.040 --> 1:14:57.200
<v Speaker 8>instances like what in the hell is this? You know,

1:14:57.680 --> 1:15:00.280
<v Speaker 8>you find the forensic botanist ask them about the point

1:15:00.320 --> 1:15:04.720
<v Speaker 8>of origin of this and of a particular plant species,

1:15:04.880 --> 1:15:08.720
<v Speaker 8>or they look at pollens because like, if you're in

1:15:09.160 --> 1:15:12.120
<v Speaker 8>southern Apalachia, you're not going to find the same pollens

1:15:12.200 --> 1:15:15.000
<v Speaker 8>up there that you will along the Gulf coast. All right,

1:15:15.000 --> 1:15:18.839
<v Speaker 8>it's those two things do not coexist one with another.

1:15:19.360 --> 1:15:21.160
<v Speaker 8>Insect life is the same way as well.

1:15:22.240 --> 1:15:23.719
<v Speaker 3>So the insects are even regional.

1:15:24.360 --> 1:15:26.920
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, yeah, they can be. You can move from one

1:15:27.000 --> 1:15:30.240
<v Speaker 8>area to another. And for us, you know, a guy,

1:15:30.479 --> 1:15:33.080
<v Speaker 8>you know, yeah, I know a little bit about entomology,

1:15:33.520 --> 1:15:35.240
<v Speaker 8>but not as much as these people. Some of these

1:15:35.320 --> 1:15:38.400
<v Speaker 8>changes and some of these species are very subtle, and

1:15:38.439 --> 1:15:44.120
<v Speaker 8>they can recognize these things about them even developmentally within

1:15:44.200 --> 1:15:47.439
<v Speaker 8>a certain species. They can see different changes dependent upon

1:15:47.479 --> 1:15:50.960
<v Speaker 8>the geography, the colomatology, all those sorts of things that

1:15:51.040 --> 1:15:54.400
<v Speaker 8>play into it. It's very involved and very people.

1:15:54.479 --> 1:15:57.200
<v Speaker 5>I've actually, I know what kind of an oddly large

1:15:57.240 --> 1:16:00.400
<v Speaker 5>amount of entomologists and they.

1:16:00.800 --> 1:16:04.479
<v Speaker 3>Just know all of their stuff. Really, yes, I do

1:16:04.680 --> 1:16:11.679
<v Speaker 3>interesting like often I do know this about Courtney Armstrong.

1:16:11.840 --> 1:16:16.639
<v Speaker 2>She is a botanist, like she attracts them apparently, But

1:16:16.680 --> 1:16:18.960
<v Speaker 2>that is I'm so glad you said it out loud.

1:16:20.640 --> 1:16:21.080
<v Speaker 6>No, that was.

1:16:21.240 --> 1:16:26.320
<v Speaker 5>They're just fascinating and really learned, knowledgeable folks.

1:16:25.800 --> 1:16:26.519
<v Speaker 8>Very focused.

1:16:26.560 --> 1:16:28.120
<v Speaker 9>They're very focused individuals.

1:16:28.200 --> 1:16:30.559
<v Speaker 8>I knew a guy that studied nothing but fire ants.

1:16:30.600 --> 1:16:31.479
<v Speaker 9>So there you go.

1:16:32.000 --> 1:16:33.240
<v Speaker 3>Well, do you guys remember yes?

1:16:33.720 --> 1:16:34.120
<v Speaker 9>Focused.

1:16:34.800 --> 1:16:37.920
<v Speaker 4>In CSI, the main guy was the entomologist, and I

1:16:37.920 --> 1:16:41.800
<v Speaker 4>think you know, he would talk about the bugcasings and

1:16:42.120 --> 1:16:44.479
<v Speaker 4>you know things, and I think that really attracted a

1:16:44.520 --> 1:16:47.920
<v Speaker 4>lot of viewers to the show because it was so interesting.

1:16:48.240 --> 1:16:51.000
<v Speaker 4>And I mean, I just think it's super interesting, Joseph,

1:16:51.080 --> 1:16:52.639
<v Speaker 4>Like all the things that you've been talking about tonight,

1:16:52.680 --> 1:16:56.160
<v Speaker 4>I'm just like, Oh, tell me more, you know, Like it's.

1:16:56.000 --> 1:16:57.200
<v Speaker 8>Just very fascinating to me.

1:16:57.320 --> 1:16:59.280
<v Speaker 3>I just I love it. Thank you.

1:16:59.560 --> 1:17:02.080
<v Speaker 8>There's a lot of utility in the natural sciences and

1:17:02.120 --> 1:17:02.719
<v Speaker 8>it's useful.

1:17:02.720 --> 1:17:04.280
<v Speaker 9>Forendsuccess the beauty of it.

1:17:04.760 --> 1:17:06.599
<v Speaker 4>Oh, I went to the wrong field. I should not

1:17:06.640 --> 1:17:09.240
<v Speaker 4>have gone into computers. This is just so fascinating to me.

1:17:10.520 --> 1:17:11.840
<v Speaker 4>I love its life.

1:17:13.520 --> 1:17:18.080
<v Speaker 2>Life still, young, Joseph, You're going to be back with

1:17:18.160 --> 1:17:22.599
<v Speaker 2>us obviously, So honestly, these have been some harrowing tales.

1:17:22.680 --> 1:17:27.000
<v Speaker 2>We've yeah unraveled a bit tonight. Obviously, we're going to

1:17:27.080 --> 1:17:32.519
<v Speaker 2>be discussing Diddy tomorrow the jury deliberation begins, and Joseph,

1:17:32.600 --> 1:17:34.559
<v Speaker 2>you'll be back with us next week, of course, So

1:17:35.000 --> 1:17:38.160
<v Speaker 2>thank you everybody for sharing your Sunday with us. We'll

1:17:38.160 --> 1:17:41.479
<v Speaker 2>have new developments in the case in Cordelaine, Idaho.

1:17:41.760 --> 1:17:44.519
<v Speaker 3>Our thoughts are with everyone true crime tonight. Have a

1:17:44.560 --> 1:17:45.040
<v Speaker 3>great night.