1 00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:05,880 Speaker 1: Greetings, traveler. Take a seat, strap yourself in pre order 2 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:09,240 Speaker 1: any of the various microgravity snacks and cocktails on our 3 00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:12,840 Speaker 1: in flight menu. As we leave Earth's atmosphere, we will 4 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:15,920 Speaker 1: engage the Loco Knot engine, which will allow us to 5 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:19,319 Speaker 1: cross the boundaries between our world and other worlds that 6 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:22,720 Speaker 1: could have been. Instead of visiting the actual planets of 7 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:26,560 Speaker 1: our Solar system, we will visit the various hypothetical Solar 8 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:31,800 Speaker 1: System objects that all seemed possible at one point. Counting 9 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:44,519 Speaker 1: down five four three two one. Welcome to Stuff to 10 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:53,360 Speaker 1: Blow your Mind from how Stuff Works dot Com. Hey, 11 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:55,280 Speaker 1: wasn't it stuff to blow your mind? My name is 12 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:58,520 Speaker 1: Robert lamp and I'm Joe McCormick, and we're back to 13 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:01,720 Speaker 1: explore some of the furthest reaches of space, about as 14 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 1: far as you can go into space, the part of 15 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:07,360 Speaker 1: space that never existed in the first place, or is, 16 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 1: or in some cases, as we'll get into in an 17 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 1: upcoming episode, things that have not been completely substantiated in 18 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:17,479 Speaker 1: the dark outer regions of our Solar system. Right, So, 19 00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:22,319 Speaker 1: today Robert and I wanted to explore hypothetical Solar System objects, 20 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:25,640 Speaker 1: objects believe to be out there in our local galactic 21 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:28,959 Speaker 1: neighborhood within the domain of influence of our home star, 22 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:32,280 Speaker 1: the Sun. Uh. And there have been tons of objects 23 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:34,280 Speaker 1: like this over the years that have been proposed to 24 00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:37,039 Speaker 1: be out there, some that we now know aren't actually 25 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:40,760 Speaker 1: there or were never there. Others that maybe there's still 26 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:44,240 Speaker 1: an open question, right and uh, you know, especially in 27 00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 1: the first one we're going to discuss, you have something 28 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 1: that is it emerges as a model for the Solar 29 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:54,680 Speaker 1: System or a model for the universe beyond Earth, based 30 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:57,760 Speaker 1: on on a mix of the best available information at 31 00:01:57,760 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 1: the time, and then also perhaps some some other concepts 32 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:08,639 Speaker 1: that maybe didn't need to necessarily influence a scientific or 33 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:12,080 Speaker 1: pre even pre scientific understanding of what the universe might 34 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:14,800 Speaker 1: consist of. Well, one of the things that this episode 35 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:17,640 Speaker 1: will and uh will cause us to have to consider 36 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:20,240 Speaker 1: is what are the ideas that people bring to the 37 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:24,120 Speaker 1: table when they're when they're trying to decide what exists 38 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 1: out there in the void of space. And it's not 39 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:29,519 Speaker 1: always as simple as just well, we look up in 40 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:31,400 Speaker 1: the sky or we look through a telescope and we 41 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:33,799 Speaker 1: see what we see, and if we see something then 42 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:35,840 Speaker 1: then we think it's there. A lot of times there 43 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:39,960 Speaker 1: are reasons people have for concluding that objects must be 44 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 1: up there in the Solar System, and what those reasons 45 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 1: are are about as interesting as the models themselves, right, 46 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 1: because you end up going from say, just pure observational 47 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 1: data to a working understanding of the physical world, to 48 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:58,680 Speaker 1: mathematical models that are based on all of these things, 49 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:01,680 Speaker 1: and you kind of expand downward from there. Uh and 50 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 1: along the way there's there's room for, you know, expectations 51 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:10,880 Speaker 1: to build around things that end up to be uh illusory. 52 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 1: And so our first illusory destination is going to be 53 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:20,239 Speaker 1: the planet and tickathon and Tikathon. So this includes i 54 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 1: would say, a sort of a a little bit of 55 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 1: a hint of Cathulu. There's a cosmic horror to behold. 56 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:31,840 Speaker 1: Uh it's it stands for, of course, the opposite Earth, 57 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:36,800 Speaker 1: the counter Earth. Yes, Uh, so please keep all seatbelts 58 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 1: fastened as our as we approach this hypothetical planet, because 59 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 1: we're gonna we're gonna be coming into into a close 60 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:49,120 Speaker 1: proximity to some some very old, very alien cosmic forces here, uh, 61 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 1: namely a cosmos or a model for the cosmos, in 62 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:56,840 Speaker 1: which everything, including our son, gravitates around the great Central 63 00:03:57,000 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 1: Fire the great central Fire is not the Sun, right, 64 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 1: this is something else. This is Dio's philick, the watch 65 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 1: Tower of Zeus, the prison of Zeus, the hearth altar 66 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:12,120 Speaker 1: of the universe, all these things depending on your translation. Well, 67 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:14,600 Speaker 1: I am on board for this journey, Robert. Tell me, 68 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 1: where does the idea of the Antikathon come from? Well, 69 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 1: the Antikathon was first proposed by Greek philosopher Philolas, who 70 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 1: lived from four seventy to three five b C. He 71 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 1: worked with a Pythagorean cosmological system. In his system, you 72 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:33,599 Speaker 1: had a sphere of fixed stars, and you had the 73 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:35,840 Speaker 1: five planets. You have the Sun, you have the Moon, 74 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:39,520 Speaker 1: but you didn't only have Earth. You had a counter Earth, 75 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:42,360 Speaker 1: a counter Earth. Right, And all of this is moving 76 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 1: around the central Fire, which again is not the Sun, 77 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:51,400 Speaker 1: and the planet Antikathon. Uh. In this model remains unseen 78 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 1: to us. It's always hidden. Um. You know, it's it's 79 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:59,320 Speaker 1: either below the horizon or or hidden by by by 80 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:02,800 Speaker 1: some other fact acture of the movements of this uh. 81 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:05,440 Speaker 1: This model. Okay, so I'm trying to picture this if 82 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:08,680 Speaker 1: the Sun is not the central fire, but it's always 83 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:12,080 Speaker 1: but Antikathon, the counter Earth is always on the opposite 84 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:14,159 Speaker 1: side of the central fire. I guess I'm having trouble 85 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 1: picturing it, but maybe you can lay it out for me. 86 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:18,359 Speaker 1: We'll lay it lay it out more. But basically, some 87 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:22,160 Speaker 1: of these things, like the central fire and antikathon, they 88 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:26,479 Speaker 1: would be eternally in our blind spot in this model. Okay, 89 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:31,000 Speaker 1: So the model here explains the movement of observable and 90 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:35,280 Speaker 1: and unobservable bodies as being dictated by their distance from 91 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 1: the central fire, so that the distant spheres of fixed 92 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:42,839 Speaker 1: stars well that that barely moves at all. The Moon 93 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:46,279 Speaker 1: takes a month to complete its revolution, the Sun a year. 94 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:48,800 Speaker 1: In each planet in its own interval. The Earth is 95 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 1: closest to the central fire, and so it takes only 96 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:53,680 Speaker 1: twenty four hours. And all of this accounts for the 97 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:56,680 Speaker 1: apparent movement of the spheres and our cycles of night 98 00:05:56,760 --> 00:05:59,599 Speaker 1: and day. So a large part of the model is 99 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:02,040 Speaker 1: at ten to explain why things are moving the way 100 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:05,000 Speaker 1: there they appear to be moving. And this was something 101 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:07,440 Speaker 1: that was worth trying to explain because even back in 102 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:09,920 Speaker 1: the ancient world in the fourth or fifth century b C. 103 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 1: We didn't have telescopes yet, but there was plenty of 104 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:16,320 Speaker 1: naked eye astronomy. I mean, the inner planets were known 105 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:19,960 Speaker 1: about back then by the Babylonian astronomers. There's a lot 106 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 1: you could learn and study just by looking up at 107 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:24,680 Speaker 1: the sky at night with the naked eye. But the 108 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 1: big question is, obviously there are things that are part 109 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:32,480 Speaker 1: of the Solar system that that these early astronomers could 110 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 1: not see and had no idea existed. And yet at 111 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:38,039 Speaker 1: the same time, why would a model like this need 112 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:42,919 Speaker 1: to by necessity incorporate things that are invisible? Right? Yeah, 113 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:45,760 Speaker 1: why would you invent an antikathon if you don't have 114 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 1: direct evidence that it's there? Well, Aristotle would later, and 115 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:52,160 Speaker 1: then this depends on who you're reading. In some cases, 116 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:56,680 Speaker 1: people interpret this as a joke. Would perhaps joke about 117 00:06:56,960 --> 00:07:02,039 Speaker 1: this theory and say that that, uh, Pythagoreans and in 118 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 1: particular fuel allows made up the hidden tenth solar body 119 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 1: in order to reach a perfect number of ten. Okay, 120 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:12,720 Speaker 1: because they were really into like numbers and symmetry and 121 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 1: all that, and and a lot of what we understand 122 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 1: about this theory does come from from the writings of Aristotle, 123 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:21,400 Speaker 1: and or at least what we can decipher his writings 124 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:24,960 Speaker 1: about it. Uh, So you know whether he was whether 125 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 1: this was he was truly joking about this tin um 126 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:32,160 Speaker 1: planet thing, I'm not sure, but we we still have 127 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 1: to give fuel Allows a great deal of credit because, 128 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:37,560 Speaker 1: no matter what he got wrong here in an attempt 129 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:40,000 Speaker 1: to understand the movement of the cosmos, he at least 130 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 1: used a system that didn't position the Earth or even 131 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 1: the Sun at the center of everything. So he was 132 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:49,160 Speaker 1: ahead of the geocentrics and the heliocentrics in that regard. 133 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:51,600 Speaker 1: He was also the first to create a model that 134 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:55,440 Speaker 1: that actually lists all five planets known to antiquity in 135 00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:58,480 Speaker 1: the correct order, and in many respects he simply built 136 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:02,080 Speaker 1: the best model possible based on existing theories, current current data, 137 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 1: and observations. Again with the with the caveat here that 138 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 1: he also threw into non existent bodies. So first, let's 139 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 1: talk about the whole center of this whole thing um 140 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:18,000 Speaker 1: the Central Fire, and why why it's there instead of 141 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:21,080 Speaker 1: the Earth or the Sun uh, which is further out 142 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:24,240 Speaker 1: from the center in this model, like Earth is closest 143 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:26,680 Speaker 1: to the central fire and Sun is beyond, and the 144 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:29,320 Speaker 1: Sun is beyond that, but the central Fire is always 145 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 1: on the opposite side of the Earth. We can't see right, 146 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:34,960 Speaker 1: we never get to see it, So it's possible that 147 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:37,840 Speaker 1: it was because fire rather than earth, seemed a more 148 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:41,240 Speaker 1: fitting elemental center to things, and the sun in this 149 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:44,680 Speaker 1: model is apparently actually interpreted more as a like a 150 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 1: glass that reflects the inner fire to our world. And 151 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:51,520 Speaker 1: then there's a there's a great deal of disagreement about 152 00:08:51,559 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 1: all the details in this model and and interpretations vary, 153 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:57,960 Speaker 1: but something that the counter Earth is there to balance 154 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 1: out our Earth in some way, or that it's there 155 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 1: to account for eclipses, which is an interesting theory that 156 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:06,800 Speaker 1: that that Aristotle backs up to some degree, and it 157 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:11,599 Speaker 1: does remind me of similar contemplations in in Indian astronomy 158 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 1: that led to the creation of the eclipse demon ra Who, 159 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:18,720 Speaker 1: which is also an astronomical body. Uh, it was you know, 160 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:22,560 Speaker 1: determined this is a thing that is causing eclipses. So 161 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:24,719 Speaker 1: ra who would be the demon that would come out 162 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:27,040 Speaker 1: and eat the sun? Well, yes, in the in the 163 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:30,480 Speaker 1: purely when we've discussed this on an older episode of 164 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:32,800 Speaker 1: stuff to blow your mind. But but yeah, ra Who 165 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:34,599 Speaker 1: was at once this demon that would come out and 166 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:38,720 Speaker 1: eat the sun. But also uh, an astronomical calculation as 167 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:42,679 Speaker 1: part of the model for how eclipses were occurring. And 168 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 1: as one of the curious facts of all this is 169 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:52,239 Speaker 1: that as UH Indian astronomy advanced and created a more 170 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:55,680 Speaker 1: accurate view of what was going on with eclipses, instead 171 00:09:55,679 --> 00:10:00,240 Speaker 1: of like keeping the religion and the mythology untouched, they 172 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 1: also adjusted that to make up for these new advancements 173 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:05,800 Speaker 1: and science. Interesting. Yeah, so go back and listen to 174 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:07,679 Speaker 1: that episode. I'll make sure to link to it on 175 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 1: the landing page. For this episode of Stuff to Bloil 176 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 1: your Mind dot com, so fiel Allows explains that the 177 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:16,200 Speaker 1: Earth rotates so that it always faces away from the 178 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:18,960 Speaker 1: central fire, so we never see it. We're tidally locked. 179 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:21,800 Speaker 1: I guess they wouldn't have those terms back then, I suppose, 180 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 1: but yeah, yeah, that's an interesting idea that lots of 181 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:29,520 Speaker 1: UH objects that orbit other objects are not rotating freely 182 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:32,040 Speaker 1: as they orbit like we are. They're tidally locked, meaning 183 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:35,160 Speaker 1: their rotation is synchronized to their orbit, so the same 184 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:38,480 Speaker 1: side of the body always faces the inner object. Now, 185 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:40,400 Speaker 1: of course there would be a number knowing what we 186 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:43,160 Speaker 1: know now, there would be so many problems with this model. 187 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:45,840 Speaker 1: Right if one side of the Earth where we just perpetually. 188 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:49,240 Speaker 1: I guess in flames due to facing uh this this 189 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:53,079 Speaker 1: weird cosmic non sun fire at the center of things. 190 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 1: That would be very bad. Yeah, But again, in this model, 191 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:58,440 Speaker 1: the planets locked, it's never it never, it never sees 192 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:00,319 Speaker 1: that we never see the fire from our side of 193 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 1: the planet, and likewise we never see the counter earth, 194 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:05,960 Speaker 1: which moves at the same speed as our planet. So 195 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:08,000 Speaker 1: I wonder did he think that there were people on 196 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:10,000 Speaker 1: the other side of the planet who could see the 197 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:12,360 Speaker 1: central fire. I don't believe. So, I mean, we have 198 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:17,520 Speaker 1: to we're again, we're we're thinking with with our modern 199 00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:19,920 Speaker 1: model of of of what we know to be true 200 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:23,760 Speaker 1: about the world and the Solar System, and we have 201 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:27,239 Speaker 1: to to realize that this system was was partially constructed 202 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:31,160 Speaker 1: on just the best materials they had at the time. Now, 203 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:33,319 Speaker 1: it's also been suggested that the notion of a counter 204 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:35,720 Speaker 1: Earth was introduced in this model, you know, not for 205 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:40,840 Speaker 1: any physical reasons, not for any kind of counterbalancing reasons, etcetera. 206 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:43,800 Speaker 1: But for the same reason that we find the concept 207 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:47,120 Speaker 1: fascinating today that the you know, the notion of another 208 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 1: Earth is mysterious and intriguing. It you know, it's a 209 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:57,320 Speaker 1: mirror realm just beyond our reach. In particular, ancient philosophy 210 00:11:57,320 --> 00:12:02,079 Speaker 1: scholar Peter Kingsley has proposed aspects of the model attempt 211 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:06,319 Speaker 1: to factor in Hades and Tartarus. Um, Hades and Tartarus 212 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:10,839 Speaker 1: of course, um uh, you know our our locations realms 213 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:14,839 Speaker 1: within Greek mythology, the realms of the dead, right, So 214 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 1: Hades is like the sort of general realm of the dead, 215 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:20,320 Speaker 1: and Tartarus is more like a hell. Yeah, like if 216 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:23,040 Speaker 1: you were one of the Titans who rebelled against the gods, 217 00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:27,959 Speaker 1: then that is you're likely abode. So Kingsley's argument is 218 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:31,400 Speaker 1: that both of these realms are considered to be below 219 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:35,240 Speaker 1: the earth. Uh, Tartarus furthest of all and that would 220 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:39,079 Speaker 1: make the counter earth Hades and the central fire Tartarus. 221 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:40,560 Speaker 1: And this is where we get to come back to 222 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:43,640 Speaker 1: the to Kingsley's interpretation of it is not being like 223 00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:46,920 Speaker 1: the Tower of Zeus, but the prison of Zeus, the 224 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:50,240 Speaker 1: prison of the Titans. And this is so is this 225 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:54,400 Speaker 1: an interpretation, to be clear, sometimes described as provocative. So 226 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:58,160 Speaker 1: this is not necessarily like the uh the agreed upon 227 00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:01,600 Speaker 1: explanation for the system, but it's an interesting tape take 228 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:04,680 Speaker 1: and it does attempt to understand the motivation for skewing 229 00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:10,439 Speaker 1: the model so and introducing two invisible realms into a 230 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 1: model of celestial mechanics. But it would mean that the 231 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:16,840 Speaker 1: counter Earth here is the realm of the dead, a 232 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:21,600 Speaker 1: planet of the underworld. Now a Philo Louse's model of 233 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:24,320 Speaker 1: the heaven certainly doesn't hold up to later much less 234 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:28,360 Speaker 1: modern astronomy. But you're probably wondering, what if there was 235 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:31,000 Speaker 1: another Earth man? Maybe he's onto something there right, Well, 236 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:33,400 Speaker 1: what if there there was another Earth orbiting at the 237 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:36,600 Speaker 1: just the right speed so that the Sun is always 238 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 1: between us and our evil twin? What what if it 239 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:45,000 Speaker 1: was always in our blind spot? Could that work? Would 240 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 1: we have seen it by now? If there was such 241 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:49,160 Speaker 1: a planet, that's a good question. Yeah, if it was 242 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:51,040 Speaker 1: on the opposite side of the Sun, we wouldn't really 243 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:53,120 Speaker 1: be able to see it normally, would we. Well, on 244 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:56,400 Speaker 1: surface level, this sounds possible, and I can, I can easily. 245 00:13:56,440 --> 00:14:00,240 Speaker 1: You can easily see where the spirals into conspiracy theory thinking, right, mean, 246 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:02,680 Speaker 1: try to find this object with your telescope and you 247 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 1: will suffer a problem with the eyes. But here's the thing. 248 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:10,040 Speaker 1: It wouldn't work because yes, we would have spotted it. 249 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:13,360 Speaker 1: Because here's the thing, the movement of the planets around 250 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:16,480 Speaker 1: the Sun are not quite this simple clockwork model that 251 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:19,920 Speaker 1: we sometimes fix in our heads. It's not just planets 252 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:23,880 Speaker 1: going around the Sun at at constant speeds. Now, the 253 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:27,560 Speaker 1: gravity of other planets has a subtle influence on our orbit, 254 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:31,480 Speaker 1: absolutely slowing us down or speeding us up. So if 255 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:33,400 Speaker 1: there was another Earth on the other side of the Sun, 256 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:37,400 Speaker 1: it would it would get a Jupiter pull or boost, 257 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:39,960 Speaker 1: and it would inevitably give us a peek at the 258 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:42,600 Speaker 1: hidden planet behind the Sun. So it wouldn't be able 259 00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:45,840 Speaker 1: to remain perfectly hidden forever. It would eat one of 260 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 1: one of the one of our Earth's would would outpace 261 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:50,520 Speaker 1: the other just enough to get a peek of it, 262 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 1: and it would be revealed. But it wouldn't just be 263 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:55,880 Speaker 1: the influence of say Jupiter and the other planets on it. 264 00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:57,960 Speaker 1: It would also be the influence of it on the 265 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:01,720 Speaker 1: other planets we can see, right, Yeah, given the effect 266 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:04,720 Speaker 1: uh that the mass of one planet has on the 267 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 1: orbits of other planets, we'd see it in the math. 268 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 1: If there was a hidden body of planetary mass on 269 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:11,720 Speaker 1: the other side of the Sun, we would, we would 270 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:14,200 Speaker 1: see it. It would have disrupted the orbits of our satellites. 271 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:18,320 Speaker 1: And this would hold true according to NASA scientists Michael Kaiser, 272 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:22,040 Speaker 1: even if the counter earth were only a hundred miles wide, 273 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 1: So it doesn't even have to be a full sized 274 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 1: counter earth. Uh, even if it were just relatively small, 275 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:31,920 Speaker 1: we would be able to experience the effects detect the 276 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:34,240 Speaker 1: effects of its presence. But let's say you're one of 277 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:36,760 Speaker 1: those people who's like, I don't trust all that math 278 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:40,280 Speaker 1: and detection stuff. I I I won't believe until I 279 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:42,760 Speaker 1: can look for it and see it and it's not there. Well, 280 00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:45,080 Speaker 1: I mean, if if that's who you are, I probably 281 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:49,440 Speaker 1: can't convince you. But in two thousand six, NASA's Solar 282 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:55,400 Speaker 1: Terrestrial Relations Observatory or STEREO mission sent to satellites around 283 00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:58,040 Speaker 1: the Sun to study the solar surface, and they allowed 284 00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:00,240 Speaker 1: us a peek beyond the Sun and get us what, 285 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:06,160 Speaker 1: There's no planet Hades there. So we have looked, we 286 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 1: have looked in the in the closet for the monster, 287 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:11,600 Speaker 1: and Anti Kathon is nowhere to be found. Right. Yeah, 288 00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:14,040 Speaker 1: we've looked in all three ways that it would be 289 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:16,760 Speaker 1: revealed to us. Yes, and it is not it is 290 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:18,880 Speaker 1: not there. It's it's not even I can't. I can't 291 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:20,720 Speaker 1: stress it enough. It's not just a matter of well, 292 00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:22,920 Speaker 1: we haven't seen it yet. No, it's it is not there. 293 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:26,600 Speaker 1: Definitely not right. However, if you do want to find 294 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 1: a counter Earth, your best place to experience it is 295 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:32,480 Speaker 1: in science fiction. Oh yeah, I'm sure. Though. I bet 296 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:35,720 Speaker 1: there's some wonderful counter earth conspiracy theories out there. Oh, 297 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:38,640 Speaker 1: I'm sure there are, but I can't imagine they're as 298 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:42,480 Speaker 1: delightful or well, I don't know if all these are delightful. Uh, 299 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 1: let's say, I'm not sure that they could possibly be 300 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:47,480 Speaker 1: as interesting as some of the counter earth models that 301 00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:50,360 Speaker 1: we've seen in science fiction. Though. Now, isn't Gore a 302 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:55,720 Speaker 1: counter Earth? Yes? It is. John Norman's Gore. These are 303 00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:59,080 Speaker 1: a series, a long series of sci fi fantasy novels 304 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 1: in which the counter earth Gore is a world of swords, 305 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:08,560 Speaker 1: techno priest King's sexual philosophy, and the Solar systems strategic 306 00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:11,840 Speaker 1: reserves of misogyny. That sounds about right, because I have 307 00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:14,560 Speaker 1: not read any of these books, but I have seen 308 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:18,119 Speaker 1: the film The MST. Three K treatment of Outlaw of 309 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:22,360 Speaker 1: Gore yes, just outlaw Outlaw Gore, I think, yeah, that's 310 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:27,800 Speaker 1: the title you usually see, uh with Jack Palance, Jack Palance, 311 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:30,440 Speaker 1: that's all right, Yeah, with the guy who keeps yelling 312 00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:33,040 Speaker 1: the other character's name about five hundred times in the 313 00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:36,440 Speaker 1: movie Cabin Cabin. And this was a sequel to nine 314 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:40,160 Speaker 1: seven's Gore, which also had talents in it as well 315 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:43,440 Speaker 1: as Oliver Read. I have not yet seen that Filiver read. 316 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:47,080 Speaker 1: It looks fabulous. I'm waiting for for one of the 317 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:50,960 Speaker 1: riffing services, riff Tracks or Mystery Sense Theater to finally 318 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:53,400 Speaker 1: riff this film for me. Yeah, I just remember about 319 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:57,160 Speaker 1: this movie. It's it's very it's like obviously like super sexist, 320 00:17:57,240 --> 00:17:59,879 Speaker 1: just woman hating off the chain and like really silly 321 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:02,640 Speaker 1: fight scenes. Yeah. Well, my understanding of the book series 322 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:04,359 Speaker 1: and I haven't and I haven't read them preaps. We 323 00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 1: can hear from some listeners who have and have some 324 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:09,800 Speaker 1: some feedback on them. Um, apparently they start out in 325 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:12,200 Speaker 1: the again thirty four book series here, so they start 326 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:15,919 Speaker 1: out a little more based in just sort of spaceship 327 00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:18,560 Speaker 1: and sword and sorcery, you know, kind of a John 328 00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:22,320 Speaker 1: Carter vibe to them, and then they increasingly get more 329 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:27,480 Speaker 1: into the author's quote unquote sexual philosophy. Oh boy, um so, 330 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:31,920 Speaker 1: I'm sure that's highly interesting. Now, another great example that 331 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:34,760 Speaker 1: also has some mystery sense Theater three thousand, uh tie 332 00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:40,680 Speaker 1: in is uh my favorite Gammera movie, Gamera Versus Guron, 333 00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:44,520 Speaker 1: which features a counter earth named Tera, and it's home 334 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:47,479 Speaker 1: to a humanoid species on the verge of extinction due 335 00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:51,280 Speaker 1: to NonStop Gaos attacks. Gaos being the sort of winged 336 00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:53,800 Speaker 1: shark creature that Gammera fights a lot with the sort 337 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:58,680 Speaker 1: of radioactive bats that emit rays. Yeah, so this plant 338 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:00,840 Speaker 1: has just been devastated by this because I guess they 339 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:03,760 Speaker 1: don't have a Gamera. Uh, but they do have one 340 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:07,639 Speaker 1: loan planetary guardian and it's the blade headed gear on 341 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:11,920 Speaker 1: which if if you've ever seen a kaiju whose head 342 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:14,399 Speaker 1: looks like just a giant blade and he's fighting Gamera, 343 00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:18,680 Speaker 1: that's him. Now, as with many of the verses things, here, 344 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:21,000 Speaker 1: is it actually in the end of the movie Gammera 345 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:23,560 Speaker 1: Versus Giron or do they team up? Oh? No, the 346 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 1: Guron is a total villain, So it's just a long 347 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:32,000 Speaker 1: dooey fight between the two. Yeah. Now, what's the Godzilla 348 00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:35,040 Speaker 1: movie where aliens kidnapped Godzilla to bring him back to 349 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:38,160 Speaker 1: their home planet to fight a monster that's attacking them. Who. 350 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:42,280 Speaker 1: I don't remember that one. It sounds like it probably exists, though, 351 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:46,840 Speaker 1: Is that Godzilla versus Monster Zero? Maybe? So I just 352 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:48,560 Speaker 1: looked it up. Yes, I think that is it. I 353 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:50,640 Speaker 1: don't think that took place on the counter Earth, though, 354 00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:53,800 Speaker 1: I think it's just another planet. Okay, we'll see some 355 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:57,639 Speaker 1: other quick examples of of counter earths and fiction. Uh. 356 00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:02,560 Speaker 1: Britt Marling's Another Earth is a film that apparently explores this. 357 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:04,760 Speaker 1: I haven't seen it, but I love her work on 358 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:07,520 Speaker 1: The o A, the Netflix sci fi series. I haven't 359 00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:11,879 Speaker 1: seen it, it's good. Uh. Lars von Trier's Melancholia is 360 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 1: another film, another one I have not seen, which also 361 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:18,960 Speaker 1: features a counter earth in some fashion, but I don't 362 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:22,600 Speaker 1: I don't really watch films by that director, so I 363 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:24,800 Speaker 1: can't speak to it. And then, of course, counter earths 364 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:27,000 Speaker 1: pop up in various other sci fi properties of note, 365 00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:30,200 Speaker 1: many many a good deal better than what we've mentioned here. 366 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:32,879 Speaker 1: But but hey, this is where you come in, the listener. 367 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:35,120 Speaker 1: If you have a favorite counter earth or counter earth 368 00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:37,959 Speaker 1: treatment from science fiction, let us know. I would love 369 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:40,639 Speaker 1: to hear from it. I always enjoy hearing, especially from 370 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:43,800 Speaker 1: those of you who have really steeped in like seventies 371 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:47,080 Speaker 1: and eighties sci fi uh novels, you know, can write 372 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:49,800 Speaker 1: in and uh and and you and educate us on 373 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:51,880 Speaker 1: what we're missing. All Right, we gotta take a quick break, 374 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:57,479 Speaker 1: but we will be right back with more on lost planets. Alright, 375 00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:00,560 Speaker 1: we're back. What's our next destination, Joe, We've gotta be 376 00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:04,119 Speaker 1: turning in and turning down this. I want to get 377 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:06,359 Speaker 1: on a hobby horse for a second. Okay. You know 378 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:09,080 Speaker 1: that old expression that in space there is no up 379 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:12,320 Speaker 1: or down. It's very It's like in the Wrath of Cohn, right, 380 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:15,560 Speaker 1: you know, it's like con is thinking, is not thinking 381 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:18,960 Speaker 1: three D enough, He's not thinking about space the right way. Uh. 382 00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:22,480 Speaker 1: And So it's technically advantageous to recognize when you're flying 383 00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:24,520 Speaker 1: around in the space there's no real top or bottom. 384 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:27,080 Speaker 1: You can orient in any direction. And in a sense 385 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:31,120 Speaker 1: that is true if we go into orbit around the Antikathon, say, 386 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:33,600 Speaker 1: there's no reason to assume that the north pole of 387 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:36,040 Speaker 1: Gore is up, in the south pole of Gore is down, 388 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:39,600 Speaker 1: or vice versa. Right, and then as we've discussed before 389 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:42,639 Speaker 1: in the show. You have more of an up and 390 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:46,280 Speaker 1: down feel in Star Trek because it's basically a world 391 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:49,879 Speaker 1: of ships, a world of seagoing vessels translated into a 392 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:52,639 Speaker 1: space scenario. And then you have more recent models of 393 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:56,800 Speaker 1: especially visual science fiction, such as the television series The Expanse, 394 00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:02,280 Speaker 1: which which demonstrates him more through readimensional realm of of 395 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:07,520 Speaker 1: a cosmic military engagement. Exactly. Yeah, uh so, so it 396 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:10,080 Speaker 1: is true that out here in space there's no ground 397 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:12,840 Speaker 1: down beneath our feet. But in another sense, I think 398 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:16,800 Speaker 1: that's really under selling how far down down goes, because 399 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:19,480 Speaker 1: down means toward a center of gravity. That's how we 400 00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:21,960 Speaker 1: use it to mean, you know, down on Earth. And 401 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:25,280 Speaker 1: the Solar System actually does have a bottom, and it's 402 00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:29,040 Speaker 1: about fifteen million degrees celsius. It's the core of the Sun, 403 00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:32,639 Speaker 1: the star I whose gaze you cannot hold without going blind. 404 00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:37,399 Speaker 1: That's all the way down in the Solar System. So 405 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:39,680 Speaker 1: you're talking about just being if you were pulled down 406 00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:42,960 Speaker 1: the gravity well, as it's called, Yes, that's the bottom. Yeah, 407 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:45,720 Speaker 1: straight down into the pit, straight into the open mouth 408 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:48,360 Speaker 1: of autun And so I like thinking about it that way, 409 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:50,680 Speaker 1: thinking about that as you get closer to the Sun, 410 00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:53,280 Speaker 1: you're actually going down into the pit. You're almost in 411 00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:57,800 Speaker 1: a way, going into the underworld. And so for literally 412 00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:00,119 Speaker 1: thousands of years we mentioned this earlier in the Episo so, 413 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:03,320 Speaker 1: but since no later than the Babylonian astronomers of the 414 00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:07,360 Speaker 1: second millennium BC, humans have known about the first six planets. 415 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:12,160 Speaker 1: You can see them with the naked eye. Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, 416 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:16,399 Speaker 1: and Saturn. They're bright points of light passing and regressing 417 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:19,480 Speaker 1: across the night sky. You don't need to telescope. Sometimes 418 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:22,800 Speaker 1: we've watched them, we've charted their movement. And when Newton 419 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:25,760 Speaker 1: came along, there was a revolution because we discovered the 420 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:29,919 Speaker 1: laws that govern the way they move. And crucially, you know, 421 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:32,719 Speaker 1: Newton came up with laws of motion that allowed us 422 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:35,320 Speaker 1: to see that the same physical laws that controlled the 423 00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:38,600 Speaker 1: movements of the planets also controlled the movement of regular 424 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:41,840 Speaker 1: objects here on Earth, whose things like gravity and momentum. 425 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:44,639 Speaker 1: But now that we're out of the realm of saying 426 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:47,679 Speaker 1: the ancient Greeks who were reasoning on the basis of 427 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:51,520 Speaker 1: maybe something like Pythagorean symmetry or something like that, now 428 00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 1: we've got real scientific tools under our belt that actually 429 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 1: help us learn what things are out there, and they 430 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:01,800 Speaker 1: are good at producing accurate results. Could we use those 431 00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:04,960 Speaker 1: tools to see if there's something else out there that 432 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:08,840 Speaker 1: we weren't seeing, And specifically, could we peer deep down 433 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:11,480 Speaker 1: into the well, all the way down into the well 434 00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:13,680 Speaker 1: of the sun, to see if there's something in that 435 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:17,879 Speaker 1: direction we're not seeing. So I wanna turn to my 436 00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:21,159 Speaker 1: man urbane. You know it's spelled urbane. That is not 437 00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:24,080 Speaker 1: the French way. I think it's our bond or bond. 438 00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:28,840 Speaker 1: Jean Joseph Laverier a French astronomer who lived eighteen eleven 439 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:33,080 Speaker 1: to eighteen seventy seven, and in eighteen thirty seven Laverier 440 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,399 Speaker 1: was appointed to a position at the Polytechnic School in Paris, 441 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:39,200 Speaker 1: where he began a long study of the planet Mercury, 442 00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:42,040 Speaker 1: which is of course the innermost planet in the Solar 443 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:44,359 Speaker 1: System that we know about now. It's the closest to 444 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,159 Speaker 1: the Sun. And he was doing things like creating tables 445 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:51,240 Speaker 1: of observation of the planet's orbit. And if that sounds 446 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:53,960 Speaker 1: like boring work, you should know that there's a wrinkle here. 447 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:58,800 Speaker 1: There's actually a mystery involved in Mercury's orbit. See, Mercury's 448 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:02,879 Speaker 1: orbit is not what it should have been given the 449 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:06,399 Speaker 1: planet's momentum and the gravitational influences on it that we 450 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:10,240 Speaker 1: knew about. There's this phenomenon known as the precession of 451 00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:14,000 Speaker 1: the parahelion of Mercury. Real quick point. A parahelion is 452 00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:17,440 Speaker 1: the point of least distance from the Sun during an 453 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:21,560 Speaker 1: object's orbit. Right, Yes, it's the point when it comes closest. 454 00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:25,840 Speaker 1: So essentially, the precession of the parahelion of Mercury means 455 00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:29,520 Speaker 1: that every year on Mercury, every time Mercury goes around 456 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:33,320 Speaker 1: the Sun, its orbits sort of shifts forward. So if 457 00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:36,000 Speaker 1: you imagine getting up on the north pole of the 458 00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:39,199 Speaker 1: Sun and of Mercury and looking down at the solar plane, 459 00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:42,560 Speaker 1: um you're looking down at Mercury's path with a time 460 00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:45,479 Speaker 1: lapse tracing its movement across the years. It would not 461 00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 1: repeat the same path every year, but instead it would 462 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:52,160 Speaker 1: sort of shift forward a bit with every trip around 463 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:55,159 Speaker 1: the Sun, drawing more kind of a daisy pedal or 464 00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:59,120 Speaker 1: spirograph type pattern. And the question is what caused this? 465 00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:02,840 Speaker 1: So fortunately the astronomers of the nineteenth century were armed 466 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 1: with that great investigative tool in the history of science. 467 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:08,560 Speaker 1: The physics of Isaac Newton, and the physics of Isaac 468 00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:13,399 Speaker 1: Newton was extremely good at predicting the movements of a 469 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:16,919 Speaker 1: planet by knowing it's inertia, the uniform motion of the 470 00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:19,920 Speaker 1: planet through space, and by knowing gravity the mutual attraction 471 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:23,200 Speaker 1: to other centers of mass that were out there. And generally, 472 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:27,000 Speaker 1: Newton's laws had proved really accurate, astonishingly good actually at 473 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:30,080 Speaker 1: predicting planetary motion. And if you took into account all 474 00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:33,080 Speaker 1: the relevant influences, the physical influences we knew about, you 475 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:36,640 Speaker 1: could just predict where the planets would go, except Mercury. 476 00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:39,760 Speaker 1: And so Newton's laws accounted for almost all of the 477 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:43,679 Speaker 1: observed procession of the orbit of Mercury, but not quite all. 478 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:47,080 Speaker 1: There's still just a bit of steady change in the 479 00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:51,639 Speaker 1: planet's orbit that stubbornly remained unexplained, making the orbit of 480 00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:56,080 Speaker 1: Mercury this stubborn and mysterious problem in Laverier's time. But 481 00:26:56,320 --> 00:27:00,000 Speaker 1: in eighteen forty five Laverier he's working on a different problem. 482 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:03,240 Speaker 1: He changes his focus briefly to focus on the curious 483 00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:06,520 Speaker 1: case of another planet in the Solar System see uh 484 00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:08,600 Speaker 1: I mentioned earlier that we've known about the first six 485 00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:11,119 Speaker 1: planets in the Solar System since ancient times, but in 486 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:15,080 Speaker 1: the nineteenth century astronomers were still dealing with a relatively 487 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:17,600 Speaker 1: recent edition. And think about how weird this is, like 488 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:19,880 Speaker 1: two at a time for the first time in thousands 489 00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:22,720 Speaker 1: of years that we knew about another planet, and that 490 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:25,720 Speaker 1: planet was How do we say this planet's name on 491 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:29,320 Speaker 1: the podcast Robert, do we just say Uranus? Well? Uranus 492 00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:33,080 Speaker 1: is fun? Is is more fun? It's more humorous. Um 493 00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:36,399 Speaker 1: I often I often say Uranus, though that almost sounds 494 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:40,879 Speaker 1: like a uranist. Like uranist, it's a professional urinator in 495 00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:44,280 Speaker 1: many respects. It's an unfortunately named planet. Yeah, it maybe 496 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:45,720 Speaker 1: could have been worse. I don't know if this would 497 00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:49,320 Speaker 1: be worse or not. So it was discovered in seventeen 498 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:51,919 Speaker 1: eighty one Uranus. That was Uranus. Sorry, that was the 499 00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:55,000 Speaker 1: first time it was seen by a human and it 500 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:58,560 Speaker 1: was by the German born British astronomer William Herschel, who 501 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:01,159 Speaker 1: found the planet during a survey of the stars, and 502 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:05,160 Speaker 1: he wanted to call it not Uranus or Uranus, but 503 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:08,680 Speaker 1: Georgie um sidus or the star of George, after King 504 00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:11,560 Speaker 1: George the third of England. Uh, and I'm glad that 505 00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:14,040 Speaker 1: name got scrapped in in favor of a much more 506 00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:18,320 Speaker 1: dignified mythological anus reference. Yeah. Even even with the the 507 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:20,399 Speaker 1: anus right in there, it it has more of a 508 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:26,240 Speaker 1: ring to it than than this Georgia um citizen business. Well, 509 00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:28,240 Speaker 1: I mean, oh, how horrible that would be the name 510 00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:32,560 Speaker 1: of planet after just like a human king. Kings suck, Yes, absolutely, 511 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:34,240 Speaker 1: I mean kings, they they have all these other things. 512 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:36,560 Speaker 1: Let's at least leave their names off of the planet. Yeah, 513 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:42,440 Speaker 1: stick to mythical references please. But anyway, like mercury, Uranus 514 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:46,200 Speaker 1: was this kind of like spear mysterious, right. Uranus also 515 00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:49,040 Speaker 1: wobbled in its orbit. Its path around the Sun was 516 00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:53,320 Speaker 1: different from what we would predict given the gravitational influences 517 00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:56,560 Speaker 1: that we knew about. So Laverier took this mystery and 518 00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:59,400 Speaker 1: he turned it into one of the great success stories 519 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:02,960 Speaker 1: in the history of any scientific theory. He conjured a 520 00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:06,600 Speaker 1: planet out of the void, and his assumptions were really simple. 521 00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:08,720 Speaker 1: So he took the known laws of physics, he took 522 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:12,240 Speaker 1: Newton's laws, and he asked, you know, given these laws, 523 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:16,400 Speaker 1: what could make Uranus orbit as irregular as we observe. 524 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:19,760 Speaker 1: And the answer he came up with was, well, another 525 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:23,160 Speaker 1: planet could do it. He calculated how big that other 526 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:26,160 Speaker 1: planet would have to be and where exactly would have 527 00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:28,880 Speaker 1: to be in relation to Uranus, and then he put 528 00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:32,000 Speaker 1: that prediction to the test. He wrote down his predictions 529 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:35,160 Speaker 1: in a letter to a German astronomer named Johann Ji 530 00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:38,960 Speaker 1: Gala and asked him to look for this eighth planet 531 00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:43,320 Speaker 1: with his instruments and using Laverier's predictions. Gala found the 532 00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:46,440 Speaker 1: planet Neptune after only about an hour of looking for it, 533 00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:50,240 Speaker 1: within one degree of exactly where Laverier had predicted. And 534 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:52,880 Speaker 1: I should also just note that an English astronomer named 535 00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:56,000 Speaker 1: John c Adams also calculated the position of the planet 536 00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:58,600 Speaker 1: that would come to be known as Neptune independently around 537 00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:02,120 Speaker 1: the same time. But in both they're essentially using the 538 00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:06,800 Speaker 1: math to determine where this this unknown planet would be. 539 00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:08,880 Speaker 1: And then it is confirmed that there is of course 540 00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:10,880 Speaker 1: a planet there, and yeah, and this is like the 541 00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:15,400 Speaker 1: classic case of like when when a scientific theory works best, right, 542 00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:18,920 Speaker 1: when a scientific theory tells you how things work in 543 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:22,240 Speaker 1: a way that allows you to extrapolate from what you know, 544 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:25,000 Speaker 1: to what you predict you should find in the future, 545 00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:28,120 Speaker 1: and then you go out and look and find exactly Yeah, 546 00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:30,959 Speaker 1: you find exactly what you predicted. So this is like 547 00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:34,680 Speaker 1: a great win for Newton's theories. Right then the prediction 548 00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:37,080 Speaker 1: was a huge success. It led to Laverier being given 549 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:39,600 Speaker 1: all kinds of medals and honorary appointments, and he was 550 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:43,320 Speaker 1: eventually made the head of the Astronomical Observatory in Paris. 551 00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:46,880 Speaker 1: He had he had plucked Neptune out of space, armed 552 00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:49,719 Speaker 1: with nothing but the power of Newton's laws. And so 553 00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:52,360 Speaker 1: then after this, Laverier decides to go back to his 554 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:55,320 Speaker 1: old subject. He turns his attention back to Mercury and 555 00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:58,440 Speaker 1: the problem of Mercuries or I think everybody can see 556 00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:00,959 Speaker 1: where we're going here, right, Yeah, So you can guess 557 00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:05,160 Speaker 1: what the temptation might be. Laverier had just achieved awesome 558 00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:09,600 Speaker 1: fame by predicting a previously undiscovered planet. What if there 559 00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:12,960 Speaker 1: was another? So he came up with a prediction for 560 00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:16,800 Speaker 1: something with mass very close to the Sun inside the 561 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:20,880 Speaker 1: orbit of Mercury, maybe another asteroid belt or another planet. 562 00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:24,280 Speaker 1: It would be something with mass that that could cause 563 00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:27,760 Speaker 1: Mercury's orbit to wobble in the way he had measured 564 00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:31,480 Speaker 1: so precisely when making his tables. And then here's the 565 00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:36,320 Speaker 1: real kicker. Just like Neptune, this InterPlaNet was also discovered. 566 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:39,640 Speaker 1: So here I want to rely on the work of 567 00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:42,720 Speaker 1: a of an author named Thomas Levinson from a book 568 00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:48,080 Speaker 1: called The Hunt for Vulcan from Random House in and 569 00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:51,400 Speaker 1: in an interview with nat Gio, Levinson describes the first 570 00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:54,280 Speaker 1: sighting of the planet at the bottom of the Pit, 571 00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:58,280 Speaker 1: which was by an amateur French astronomer named Edmund Modesta 572 00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:02,880 Speaker 1: Lescarbot on March eightifty nine. So you've got that he's 573 00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:06,040 Speaker 1: this country doctor. Uh, he was a country doctor by trade, 574 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:08,800 Speaker 1: and he's got an observatory in a stone barn in 575 00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:11,520 Speaker 1: his backyard. Yeah, this is this is often the case 576 00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:13,680 Speaker 1: when we're talking about astronomy from this area. We're getting 577 00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:17,240 Speaker 1: into the realm of the gentleman scientist. Yes, yeah, he's 578 00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:19,960 Speaker 1: sort of like he dabbles. Maybe. So one day in 579 00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:23,240 Speaker 1: eighteen fifty nine, less Garbo took a break in between 580 00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:25,560 Speaker 1: seeing patients and he went out to his telescope to 581 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:31,480 Speaker 1: observe the sun. And uh, and Levinson says, quote as 582 00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:33,800 Speaker 1: he trains his telescope on the Sun. He sees a 583 00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:36,880 Speaker 1: round object on the face of the Sun. He times 584 00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:39,880 Speaker 1: it as it moves steadily across the Sun, records the data. 585 00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:43,200 Speaker 1: Then another patient arrives, so he checks out that patient, 586 00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:46,000 Speaker 1: then comes back to the barn. This round dot is 587 00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:50,120 Speaker 1: still crossing the Sun. He tracks it continuously, taking notes 588 00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:53,000 Speaker 1: on its path until it finally goes over the other 589 00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:56,680 Speaker 1: edge of the Sun. And so, after making this observation 590 00:32:56,760 --> 00:33:00,680 Speaker 1: less Garbo, he reads about Laverier's prediction. He gets all 591 00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:03,440 Speaker 1: excited and he writes a letter to Laverier describing what 592 00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:05,920 Speaker 1: he saw crossing the disc of the Sun. So Laverier 593 00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:08,200 Speaker 1: had predicted this planet would be in there, and then 594 00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:11,520 Speaker 1: let's go Bo saw it. And apparently Laverier was at 595 00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:13,800 Speaker 1: a New Year's Eve party when he got the letter, 596 00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:17,200 Speaker 1: and he just left and he's like, oh boy, and 597 00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:20,640 Speaker 1: he went out to Lescarbo's house, which was a trip 598 00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:23,280 Speaker 1: that Levinson said involved a train ride in a twelve 599 00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:27,920 Speaker 1: mile walk. So he was obviously excited. I mean, you 600 00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:30,080 Speaker 1: find one planet, you kind of get hooked on it, right, 601 00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:33,440 Speaker 1: we got to find another. Um So lavery A confirmed 602 00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:36,720 Speaker 1: the observation, and this InterPlaNet got a name. It came 603 00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:39,440 Speaker 1: to be known as Vulcan. That's a good name because 604 00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:42,680 Speaker 1: Vulcan in in in the mythological sense is is close 605 00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:45,360 Speaker 1: to the forge. Yes, he's the forge, got exactly. He's 606 00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:48,360 Speaker 1: the Hifastus type figure. He's down there with the fires 607 00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:51,760 Speaker 1: beating the steel. And this triggered a period of what 608 00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:56,160 Speaker 1: Levinson called vulcan Mania. So suddenly astronomers all over the 609 00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:58,880 Speaker 1: world you're trying to find Vulcan, and quite a few 610 00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:02,479 Speaker 1: reported finding it, like during an eclipse in eight seventy eight. 611 00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:05,680 Speaker 1: Levinson tells the story that Thomas Edison happened to be 612 00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:08,400 Speaker 1: in the path of totality for a for a solar 613 00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:11,479 Speaker 1: eclipse in Wyoming, and he was there to try out 614 00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:14,920 Speaker 1: an infrared radiation sinsor he had created, which actually did 615 00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:17,560 Speaker 1: not work in the end. But so he's out there 616 00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:19,200 Speaker 1: for the eclipse and he ends up coming across a 617 00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:21,960 Speaker 1: pair of Vulcan hunters who were using the eclipse to 618 00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:24,080 Speaker 1: try to spot the planet, because obviously, if you think 619 00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:26,480 Speaker 1: about this, it's hard to see a planet that's close 620 00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:29,520 Speaker 1: to the Sun under normal circumstances. But if you wait 621 00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:32,719 Speaker 1: for a solar eclipse and the Moon blocks out the light, 622 00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:35,080 Speaker 1: of the Sun. Suddenly you can look up there and say, okay, 623 00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:37,920 Speaker 1: is there anything there? The two Vulcan hunters here in 624 00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:42,200 Speaker 1: the story where Simon Newcomb and James Craig Watson, and 625 00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:44,880 Speaker 1: the report goes that Newcomb could not find the planet. 626 00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:47,200 Speaker 1: He looked for Vulcan during the eclipse. He didn't see anything. 627 00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:50,920 Speaker 1: But Watson said he saw it. He said a star 628 00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:53,560 Speaker 1: was near the Sun which had never been documented before. 629 00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:55,560 Speaker 1: It was not on any of his charts, and it 630 00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:59,200 Speaker 1: had to be the planet Vulcan. In an article for Nautilus, 631 00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:02,799 Speaker 1: Levinson writes a about Watson, citing quote Watson saw very 632 00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:05,480 Speaker 1: close to the limb of the Sun, a ruddy star, 633 00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:08,880 Speaker 1: just where Vulcan ought to have been. So the discovery 634 00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:11,160 Speaker 1: of Vulcan was reported in the New York Times, in 635 00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:14,040 Speaker 1: papers around the world. It was huge and exciting news, 636 00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:17,200 Speaker 1: and there were even cases were like doubters and skeptics 637 00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:19,719 Speaker 1: about Vulcan were sort of pooh pooed and made fun of. 638 00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:22,480 Speaker 1: But if you know your solar system now you might 639 00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:26,480 Speaker 1: be wondering. Okay, so what happened? We didn't memorize that 640 00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:29,200 Speaker 1: one in school, right, So yeah, what happened to Vulcan 641 00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:32,640 Speaker 1: and Vulcan Mania. Well. Of course, many others simply failed 642 00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:34,600 Speaker 1: to find the planet. Other people looked for it and 643 00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:37,000 Speaker 1: never saw what the people who found it said they saw. 644 00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:40,120 Speaker 1: But what really killed it was a change in the 645 00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:44,440 Speaker 1: theoretical framework that had predicted it. That change was what 646 00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:48,160 Speaker 1: was brought about with Einstein in the theory of general relativity. 647 00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:50,799 Speaker 1: So when Einstein devised his theory, one of the key 648 00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:54,279 Speaker 1: elements is that space and time may have their geometry 649 00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:57,400 Speaker 1: altered by large amounts of mass and energy, and that 650 00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:00,319 Speaker 1: an object traveling close to a massive object like a 651 00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:04,319 Speaker 1: star would be effective by these deformations of spacetime. And 652 00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:07,440 Speaker 1: what Einstein found here was that his theory, when he 653 00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:12,040 Speaker 1: did the math, almost perfectly predicted the precession of the 654 00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:17,160 Speaker 1: parahelion of Mercury without invoking any elusive hidden planets. Reportedly, 655 00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:20,400 Speaker 1: you know, when Einstein made these calculations and discovered that 656 00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:24,280 Speaker 1: his theory had finally explained the leftover bits of Mercury's wobble, 657 00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:27,080 Speaker 1: he was so excited that he felt heart palpitations and 658 00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:31,000 Speaker 1: couldn't work for days, because here's this lingering mystery and astronomy. 659 00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:34,480 Speaker 1: It had led people to hypothesize phantom planets that weren't 660 00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:38,800 Speaker 1: actually there. And finally, just by re envisioning exactly how 661 00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:42,120 Speaker 1: gravity worked and what the shape of space time was, 662 00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:45,279 Speaker 1: he had explained it. Now with this new theory, it 663 00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:48,719 Speaker 1: matched all of the observations from the past. Like this 664 00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:50,920 Speaker 1: is like a Scooby Doo mystery, Like the ghost is 665 00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:54,280 Speaker 1: no longer required because because he has pulled the mask 666 00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:57,560 Speaker 1: off of the villain and exposed it. Yeah, Einstein, he 667 00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:00,080 Speaker 1: made a name for himself by killing a planet of 668 00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:02,839 Speaker 1: the Vulcan was dead. But I like to think about 669 00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:05,600 Speaker 1: and Levinson points out some stuff about this too, the 670 00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:09,319 Speaker 1: interesting fact that in a way Laverier was sort of 671 00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:12,200 Speaker 1: doing everything right right, you know. He was like, as 672 00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:14,719 Speaker 1: a scientist, he was like, Okay, well, I've got a 673 00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:16,960 Speaker 1: theory that I think works right. You know, you've got 674 00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:20,920 Speaker 1: Newtonian mechanics. They they have made correct predictions before, so 675 00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:23,279 Speaker 1: I'll use them to make a prediction again, and in 676 00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:25,839 Speaker 1: much the manner of predictions that have worked out in 677 00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:29,080 Speaker 1: the past. And then you go to the tests and say, okay, 678 00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:32,879 Speaker 1: does anybody empirically confirm what I predicted? And people did, Yeah, 679 00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:35,239 Speaker 1: I mean this is I mean getting it wrong too. 680 00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:38,560 Speaker 1: Is part of the process here. Uh, you form the 681 00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:42,200 Speaker 1: best hypothesis based on the materials you have to work with, 682 00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:47,080 Speaker 1: and then eventually you know it's going to be proven disproven, 683 00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:52,640 Speaker 1: or or or somewhere in between, tweaked to account for 684 00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:56,200 Speaker 1: new information about the world. I mean, I wonder what 685 00:37:56,239 --> 00:37:57,920 Speaker 1: was going on in the case of the people who 686 00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:01,560 Speaker 1: said that they saw vulcan Like were they I mean, 687 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:04,919 Speaker 1: was it just the case that these were instances where 688 00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:07,680 Speaker 1: people did see something and they were just confused about 689 00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:11,080 Speaker 1: what it was. Or were they cases where people were 690 00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:13,560 Speaker 1: so excited to you know, want to see what they 691 00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:16,439 Speaker 1: were expecting to see that that it. You know, maybe 692 00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:19,239 Speaker 1: they wouldn't have seen something otherwise, but they just had 693 00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:21,840 Speaker 1: their their biases going. Oh. I think I think it 694 00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:24,080 Speaker 1: was all of those. I mean, we've talked about on 695 00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:30,920 Speaker 1: the show before, the enthusiasm around spying the canals of Mars, 696 00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:36,680 Speaker 1: you know, um, and and certainly that similar excitement involved there. 697 00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:39,239 Speaker 1: But in this case we're dealing with something that is 698 00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:44,360 Speaker 1: perhaps even less obvious to untrained eyes, perhaps just a 699 00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:47,880 Speaker 1: little easier to fool yourself on if you have just 700 00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:50,799 Speaker 1: just the right amount of enthusiasm, if you're gazing up 701 00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:54,319 Speaker 1: at at an eclipse like which, which even with appropriate 702 00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:59,440 Speaker 1: gear is is an overwhelming situation. Yeah, it's emotionally arousing. Yeah, 703 00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:03,560 Speaker 1: you might say, just a generally extreme proposition. Yes, And 704 00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:06,080 Speaker 1: and I'll advise, just in case we're not clear here, 705 00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:08,439 Speaker 1: do not listen to the show and go out and 706 00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:11,640 Speaker 1: stare at the sun looking for phantom planets? Right though, 707 00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:15,279 Speaker 1: I would advise you do visit a solar observatory. Absolutely, yes. 708 00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:17,960 Speaker 1: Should we take a break and then explore one last 709 00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:22,799 Speaker 1: lost daughter of Aten? Let's do it. Alright, we're back, 710 00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:26,439 Speaker 1: so we've cast Vulcan aside Vulcan. Vulcan's out, so dead, 711 00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:28,320 Speaker 1: So let's go through the planets. We have Wait a minute, 712 00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:31,160 Speaker 1: what about Antikathon always dead too, it's dead too. Central 713 00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:37,520 Speaker 1: Fire also gone. So we have Mercury, okay, Venus, Earth, Mars, 714 00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:41,880 Speaker 1: and then of course, oh okay, we'll see Did you 715 00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:45,520 Speaker 1: say Phaeton? I said Phaeton? What is Phaeton? All right? Yep? 716 00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:48,799 Speaker 1: This is the This, this is our next destination in 717 00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:52,359 Speaker 1: the podcast, named for the son of Helios and Greek myth, 718 00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:55,640 Speaker 1: and this was the This was for a brief period, 719 00:39:55,680 --> 00:40:01,120 Speaker 1: a hypothetical planet between Mars, and Jupiter. Now I know 720 00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:05,000 Speaker 1: that there is something between Mars and Jupiter. Well, yeah, 721 00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:08,360 Speaker 1: so we have the rubble of an asteroid belt between 722 00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:11,239 Speaker 1: Mars and the gas giant. So the hypothesis here, just 723 00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:12,560 Speaker 1: to get it out of the way right from the start, 724 00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:16,040 Speaker 1: is that the asteroid belt used to be a planet, 725 00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:19,399 Speaker 1: which we are going to call Phaeton. Okay, So it's 726 00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:23,280 Speaker 1: like in Star Wars, after the planet Alderan gets blown 727 00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:25,880 Speaker 1: up by the Death Stact and they arrive in the 728 00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:28,480 Speaker 1: Millennium Falcon and what's there a bunch of like rocks 729 00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:31,759 Speaker 1: floating around in space. That's sort of like the asteroid 730 00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:35,160 Speaker 1: belt after the planet Phaeton has been destroyed. Right, So 731 00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:38,720 Speaker 1: the basic idea here is Phaeton. The planet is gone 732 00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:42,120 Speaker 1: and all we have is is rubble. Now why name 733 00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:47,040 Speaker 1: it Phaeton? This is pretty fun too. That's because in mythology, 734 00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:52,960 Speaker 1: um Phaeton borrows his dad's sun chariot, He borrows the 735 00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:55,879 Speaker 1: chariot of Helios, and I just guess, guess, just goes 736 00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:58,200 Speaker 1: on a wild ride on this thing. It just totally 737 00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:02,040 Speaker 1: wipes out. So they're number of different paintings of him 738 00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:05,040 Speaker 1: falling off the chariot of the Sun, crashing the chariot 739 00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:09,600 Speaker 1: of the sun. Um. There's a there's one particular fresco 740 00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:14,960 Speaker 1: fresco um. This was done eight. This is not an 741 00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:17,520 Speaker 1: Internet humor thing, no, no, but it's like, yeah, it's 742 00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:21,160 Speaker 1: like a fresco and you're looking up and there is 743 00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:25,080 Speaker 1: a phaeton driving the chariot and he is, as you said, 744 00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:27,920 Speaker 1: you might say, straight porky pigging it. He's just he's 745 00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:31,120 Speaker 1: he's wearing robes and all at least on his torso, 746 00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:35,480 Speaker 1: and it's just naked button genitals hanging out. This is 747 00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:39,440 Speaker 1: absolutely the most prominent scrotum I have ever seen in 748 00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:42,640 Speaker 1: a Renaissance painting. So I don't know, maybe he wrecked 749 00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:45,680 Speaker 1: the chariot because he was wearing no pants. I don't know. 750 00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:48,560 Speaker 1: Maybe uh, maybe this is part of the accident, like 751 00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:51,000 Speaker 1: he's he's wiping out so bad that his pants are 752 00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:55,359 Speaker 1: just immediately vaporized. Well, no, I think what we need 753 00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:58,760 Speaker 1: to what we must accept is that actually this painting 754 00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:01,560 Speaker 1: by Dominico Riccio. I don't know if you said the 755 00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:03,960 Speaker 1: name that I didn't know. That's the painter here. This 756 00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:08,480 Speaker 1: painting here is anatomically correct. This is what a chariot 757 00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:11,480 Speaker 1: wreck would look like. For god wearing robes. We just 758 00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:15,640 Speaker 1: normally are coddled by painters who must represent the gods 759 00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:18,960 Speaker 1: in a tasteful pose. This is like the cinema verity 760 00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:22,520 Speaker 1: of Renaissance painting of of classical gods. So I highly 761 00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:24,680 Speaker 1: recommend looking it up if you get a chance. Um, 762 00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:26,720 Speaker 1: and maybe I'll include a link on the landing page 763 00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:30,359 Speaker 1: that though it will almost certainly not be the main 764 00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:33,360 Speaker 1: art for the episode. So so, anyway, I know what 765 00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:36,120 Speaker 1: everyone's thinking. Or sorry, Okay, I've got it. There's this 766 00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:38,839 Speaker 1: idea that what's the asteroid belt doing there? Okay, maybe 767 00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:41,360 Speaker 1: it used to be a planet, But the way we 768 00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:46,360 Speaker 1: actually get to the formation of this Phaeton hypothesis is 769 00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:48,960 Speaker 1: a lot more interesting than that. And it comes down 770 00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:54,160 Speaker 1: again to UH, to the math, to a mathematical model, 771 00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:57,279 Speaker 1: and then and then someone saying, well, what what should 772 00:42:57,320 --> 00:43:00,840 Speaker 1: go here? What would what would make this model work? 773 00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:03,640 Speaker 1: What would fill in the missing blank? While a planet? 774 00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:07,560 Speaker 1: Of course, so you're saying there's a mathematical UH prediction 775 00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:11,680 Speaker 1: or mathematical theory that otherwise holds true, that the predicted 776 00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:15,400 Speaker 1: other things accurately and would have predicted a planet where 777 00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:17,840 Speaker 1: the asteroid belt is right, and it all has to 778 00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:21,640 Speaker 1: do with what's known as uh the Titches Bode law. 779 00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:26,440 Speaker 1: This is a hypothesis of planetary sequence named for Johan 780 00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:31,880 Speaker 1: Daniel Tichus and Johan Alert Bode. The two Johan's Johan 781 00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:35,439 Speaker 1: and Johan and um this was now in the Yeah. 782 00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:38,880 Speaker 1: This was proposed by German astronomer Tithis in seventeen sixty 783 00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:43,440 Speaker 1: six and popularized by Bode in seventeen seventy two. And 784 00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:45,640 Speaker 1: and to explain what all this is about, let's consider 785 00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:48,040 Speaker 1: the sequence of planets again. This time you know what 786 00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:52,799 Speaker 1: we know Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn. Now considered 787 00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:59,040 Speaker 1: this sequence of numbers, Okay, zero, three, six, twelve, twenty four. 788 00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:05,120 Speaker 1: Each number after three is twice the previous number, So 789 00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:08,520 Speaker 1: zero and then three, and then we go to six, 790 00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:12,000 Speaker 1: then to twelve, and twenty four. Makes sense add four 791 00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:15,520 Speaker 1: to each of these numbers and then divide them by ten, 792 00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:21,200 Speaker 1: and the result is as follows. Zero point four, zero 793 00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:26,080 Speaker 1: point seven, one point zero, one point six, two point eight, 794 00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:31,920 Speaker 1: five point two, ten point zero. Six of these numbers 795 00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:36,120 Speaker 1: closely approximate the distances of our planets from the Sun 796 00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:40,840 Speaker 1: in astronomical units. Are a use to refresh one au 797 00:44:41,239 --> 00:44:43,560 Speaker 1: is the rough distance between the Earth and the Sun. 798 00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:48,320 Speaker 1: So point four a use mercury point seven, Venus one 799 00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:54,799 Speaker 1: Earth naturally one point six Mars two point eight. They're 800 00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:57,879 Speaker 1: not a planet, bunch of question marks. Five point two 801 00:44:57,920 --> 00:45:00,160 Speaker 1: is Jupiter and ten is Saturn. So what's going on 802 00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:03,960 Speaker 1: with two point eight? You're saying? Otherwise, the distance of 803 00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:08,279 Speaker 1: the planets from the Sun pretty closely followed this sequence 804 00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:11,320 Speaker 1: of numbers in an orderly way, right, the than the 805 00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:14,919 Speaker 1: planets known to exist at the time. And and so 806 00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:18,360 Speaker 1: m bode especially he said, he there's a quote from me. 807 00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:21,000 Speaker 1: He says, can one believe that the founder of the 808 00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:23,919 Speaker 1: universe had left this space empty? Right? How why would 809 00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:25,680 Speaker 1: he mess with us like that? Right? I mean, but 810 00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:29,239 Speaker 1: then I mean without invoking the almighty though, coming back 811 00:45:29,239 --> 00:45:31,200 Speaker 1: to just the pure math, you can see where they 812 00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:34,640 Speaker 1: would say, well, look this, this, this mathematical sequence lines 813 00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:39,120 Speaker 1: up otherwise perfectly with the with the distances of the planet. 814 00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:41,040 Speaker 1: So what's going on here? Yeah, you would have to 815 00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:43,799 Speaker 1: think if there if there were never a planet there, 816 00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:46,759 Speaker 1: that's just a really odd coincidence that all the other 817 00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:49,760 Speaker 1: planets line up so well, right, And the other important 818 00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:53,840 Speaker 1: fact here is that at this time, Uh, the asteroid 819 00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:57,080 Speaker 1: belt was not known, so it was just a blank spot. 820 00:45:57,160 --> 00:45:59,360 Speaker 1: They weren't even saying, oh, where there should be a 821 00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:01,400 Speaker 1: planet here, there's asteroid belt. No, they just appeared to 822 00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:03,719 Speaker 1: be nothing. Now I do wonder if even though they 823 00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:06,120 Speaker 1: didn't know about the asteroid belt, would they know about 824 00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:09,320 Speaker 1: some of the largest of the asteroids. Well, in eighteen 825 00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:12,280 Speaker 1: o one they began too, because that's when we discovered 826 00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:16,200 Speaker 1: the asteroid series and our understanding of the asteroid belt began. 827 00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:20,120 Speaker 1: And at first, Series alone seemed to be the answer, like, 828 00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:23,239 Speaker 1: surely this was the planet only. Series is not a 829 00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:26,280 Speaker 1: true planet. It's a minor planet or dwarf planet, depending 830 00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:28,240 Speaker 1: on how you want to classify it. It's the thirty 831 00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:31,480 Speaker 1: third largest known body in the Solar System, and the 832 00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:35,520 Speaker 1: asteroid belt itself contains various smaller minor planets and irregularly 833 00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:38,680 Speaker 1: shaped bodies. The total mass of these rocks, if you 834 00:46:38,719 --> 00:46:42,280 Speaker 1: were to try and as symbol them all into a planet, 835 00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:44,879 Speaker 1: into a phaeton, if you will, would be about four 836 00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:47,920 Speaker 1: percent of the Earth's moon and uh, and so you 837 00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:50,920 Speaker 1: know that's not quite a planet's worth. And then the 838 00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:54,799 Speaker 1: belt it's itself, we when we we know now that 839 00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:58,200 Speaker 1: it was it formed in the Solar nebula and would become, uh, 840 00:46:58,239 --> 00:47:03,120 Speaker 1: that would become the Solar System. But gravitational gravitational perturbations 841 00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:06,520 Speaker 1: from Jupiter prevented the lumps from a creating into a planet. 842 00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:11,480 Speaker 1: There was just too much orbital energy. But the idea 843 00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:14,359 Speaker 1: here that they had was that, okay, we're discovering all 844 00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:18,240 Speaker 1: these pieces. Maybe they are pieces of of of something else, 845 00:47:18,239 --> 00:47:21,000 Speaker 1: something that was there before. So Phaeton would have been 846 00:47:21,239 --> 00:47:23,920 Speaker 1: that planet and uh and it would have at some 847 00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:27,000 Speaker 1: point been destroyed, becoming the asteroid belt. And we got 848 00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:29,759 Speaker 1: to this point because in eighteen o two, German astronomer 849 00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:33,960 Speaker 1: Heinrich Wilhelm math house Olds proposed that these might be 850 00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:38,200 Speaker 1: the remains of a planet, and then linguist Johan goldleb 851 00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:42,279 Speaker 1: Ratloff proposed the name Phaeton. I mean, really he had 852 00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:44,200 Speaker 1: the easy part. He just came along and said, hey, 853 00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:46,239 Speaker 1: call it Phaeton. Maybe he was just a big fan 854 00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:48,719 Speaker 1: of that painting. Yeah, maybe so. And all of this 855 00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:52,000 Speaker 1: was in line with what would be known as disruption theory, 856 00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:55,680 Speaker 1: which was the idea that there was some former planet 857 00:47:55,719 --> 00:47:59,120 Speaker 1: here that was destroyed by Jupiter's gravity or a space 858 00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:02,480 Speaker 1: collision or manner of internal turmoil, or the effects of 859 00:48:02,520 --> 00:48:07,239 Speaker 1: some other hypothetical, hypothetical local cosmic body. But we know 860 00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:09,719 Speaker 1: now that no such planet never existed, or at least 861 00:48:09,719 --> 00:48:11,920 Speaker 1: the evidence is against it. The evidence is against it. 862 00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:14,120 Speaker 1: There was there, there doesn't seem to have ever been 863 00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:20,280 Speaker 1: something there to explode. Plus, UH, the the Titches Bode 864 00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:24,400 Speaker 1: law is now just considered a mathematical curiosity, and not 865 00:48:24,520 --> 00:48:28,160 Speaker 1: only because phaeton didn't work out. UH. It is interesting 866 00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:31,840 Speaker 1: that the sequence holds true for Uranus, which was discovered 867 00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:34,600 Speaker 1: later in seventeen eighty one. Wait are you are you 868 00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:39,200 Speaker 1: abandoning ground on Urinus again? Um? Well no, I could 869 00:48:39,239 --> 00:48:42,840 Speaker 1: just I mean, we're already talking about Phaeton um porky 870 00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:44,920 Speaker 1: picking it, So I guess we can. We can use Uranus. 871 00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:49,040 Speaker 1: The sequence holds true for Uranus as well, UH, discovered 872 00:48:49,080 --> 00:48:52,799 Speaker 1: in seventeen eighty one, UH at nineteen eight years. But 873 00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:56,400 Speaker 1: here's the thing. Neptune and then Pluto break the sequence. 874 00:48:56,880 --> 00:49:00,400 Speaker 1: So the sequence the law does not hold up to 875 00:49:00,600 --> 00:49:05,480 Speaker 1: the UH discovery of additional bodies in our solar system. Okay, 876 00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:08,840 Speaker 1: so our apologies to the two yo Han's, but again 877 00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:11,720 Speaker 1: they were doing exactly what one should do. They were looking, 878 00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:14,120 Speaker 1: they were looking at the at the data, they were 879 00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:17,240 Speaker 1: they were looking at the observations, and they were trying 880 00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:20,480 Speaker 1: to figure out what was going on, Why why is 881 00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:24,920 Speaker 1: the observable solar system not matching up with this mathematical 882 00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:27,960 Speaker 1: pattern that we have seen elsewhere. And then when they 883 00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:32,440 Speaker 1: begin to discover something in the exact place where something 884 00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:36,279 Speaker 1: should be to meet this sequence, I mean, that's compelling. Well, 885 00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:39,720 Speaker 1: I mean it's just a reminder that, of course, uh, 886 00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:41,920 Speaker 1: you know, even when you're sort of when you're sort 887 00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:44,000 Speaker 1: of like doing science right, like you're not out there 888 00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:47,120 Speaker 1: just proposing ancient aliens because it feels good or something like. 889 00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:49,319 Speaker 1: You know, you've got a theory that has a track 890 00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:53,600 Speaker 1: record of of correctly, uh predicting some things in the past, 891 00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:56,480 Speaker 1: so you're you're trying to extrapolate to the future. That 892 00:49:56,480 --> 00:49:59,400 Speaker 1: that's in a way how science usually works when it 893 00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:01,680 Speaker 1: works correct actually, but it can still lead you astray, 894 00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:04,400 Speaker 1: and you've always gotta you've always just got to return 895 00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:07,120 Speaker 1: to the well of empirical observation and keep trying to 896 00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:09,480 Speaker 1: figure things out and refining. You don't and you don't 897 00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:11,000 Speaker 1: want to be too married to the idea that you're 898 00:50:11,040 --> 00:50:13,240 Speaker 1: going to discover a planet, because then that can skew 899 00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:17,520 Speaker 1: your your observations and uh and just the the the 900 00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:20,280 Speaker 1: overall integrity of what you're trying to do. There's nothing 901 00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:22,560 Speaker 1: like the rush of discovering a planet. You you can 902 00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:25,640 Speaker 1: tell people they were just like chomping for it. Like 903 00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:29,240 Speaker 1: if if, for instance, if you were seeking to discover 904 00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:33,400 Speaker 1: a counter Earth because you believe that to be Hades, 905 00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:37,440 Speaker 1: you believed it to be uh, the nether realm, and 906 00:50:37,480 --> 00:50:40,960 Speaker 1: that discovering it would then prove something some religious model 907 00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:44,000 Speaker 1: that was important to you. Um, you know that that 908 00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:47,960 Speaker 1: that would be an example of of of over zealous exploration. 909 00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:52,200 Speaker 1: Like you're clearly you're uh, you know, the the the 910 00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:54,520 Speaker 1: exploration is out a whack at that point. That would 911 00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:57,000 Speaker 1: make for a pretty good sci fi story. I propose 912 00:50:57,040 --> 00:51:02,200 Speaker 1: a principle known as let's call it agents Razor, where 913 00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:05,759 Speaker 1: it is you do not needlessly multiply gores. Yes, if 914 00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:08,920 Speaker 1: your if your model of the Solar System can work 915 00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:12,879 Speaker 1: without the inclusion of a phantom planet, uh, then then 916 00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:16,120 Speaker 1: then that's the direction you should go in. But however, 917 00:51:16,160 --> 00:51:17,719 Speaker 1: is we're going to discuss in a future episode of 918 00:51:17,719 --> 00:51:20,600 Speaker 1: stuff to blow your mind. Uh, that's not quite it. 919 00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:24,200 Speaker 1: For phantom planets in our own solar system. There there 920 00:51:24,320 --> 00:51:27,839 Speaker 1: still remain uh uh you know, at least a one 921 00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:30,719 Speaker 1: or two that are still talked about. Oh, yes, shall 922 00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:34,120 Speaker 1: we return, Yes we should, but we'll leave those phantom 923 00:51:34,120 --> 00:51:38,160 Speaker 1: planets for next time. Okay, all right. Uh. In the meantime, 924 00:51:38,239 --> 00:51:40,279 Speaker 1: if you want to check out our homepage, it is 925 00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:42,200 Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. That's the mothership. 926 00:51:42,239 --> 00:51:45,560 Speaker 1: That's where we'll find all the episodes and also a 927 00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:47,640 Speaker 1: number of links. You'll find links to our various social 928 00:51:47,719 --> 00:51:51,919 Speaker 1: media accounts. You'll find uh, links to our our little 929 00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:54,880 Speaker 1: merchandise store where you can buy T shirts and uh 930 00:51:55,719 --> 00:51:59,160 Speaker 1: uh logos to stick on your laptops and street signs 931 00:51:59,160 --> 00:52:02,640 Speaker 1: and what have you. Uh. It's it's all there. 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If you would like to get 942 00:52:31,680 --> 00:52:34,360 Speaker 1: in touch with us directly with feedback about this episode 943 00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:36,720 Speaker 1: or any other, to suggest a topic for the future, 944 00:52:36,800 --> 00:52:38,960 Speaker 1: or just to say hello, you can email us at 945 00:52:39,120 --> 00:52:52,160 Speaker 1: blow the Mind at how stuff works dot com for 946 00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:54,640 Speaker 1: more on this and thousands of other topics. Is it 947 00:52:54,719 --> 00:53:12,120 Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com? Yeah, I lit four four