1 00:00:03,360 --> 00:00:06,080 Speaker 1: Today on the bright side, If you're exhausted from trying 2 00:00:06,080 --> 00:00:07,960 Speaker 1: to do it all, be it all, and keep it 3 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:11,200 Speaker 1: all together. What if the answer isn't pushing harder, but 4 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:15,520 Speaker 1: softening instead. Psychologist and author Nikola Jane Hobbs joins us 5 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:18,640 Speaker 1: Today to explore how letting go apostle culture can lead 6 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:22,480 Speaker 1: to more peace, more joy, and a fuller life. Her book, 7 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 1: The Relaxed Woman is a gentle rebellion and an invitation 8 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 1: to finally exhale. 9 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 2: So I think the culture is a huge factor. And 10 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:34,639 Speaker 2: if as children we never see our mothers or our 11 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:37,760 Speaker 2: grandmothers or the women in our life rest, it becomes 12 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:41,360 Speaker 2: normalized that rest is something that women just don't do. 13 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:45,519 Speaker 2: We work and we care. That's how we are worthy. 14 00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:48,879 Speaker 2: So when we stop doing these things, who are we? 15 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:51,960 Speaker 1: I'm simone voice and this is the bright side from 16 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 1: Hello sunshine. Let's be honest. Most of us don't need 17 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:04,040 Speaker 1: another productivity hack or morning routine. My algorithm is filled 18 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:07,399 Speaker 1: with that stuff. We need a nap. We need a 19 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 1: break from the pressure to hustle harder, to optimize everything, 20 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 1: and to always be on. We need permission to be soft, 21 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:18,560 Speaker 1: to move slower, to stop tying our worth to how 22 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:21,280 Speaker 1: much we get done in a day. That's why we're 23 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:24,440 Speaker 1: so excited to introduce you to Nikola Jane Hobbs, because 24 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:27,399 Speaker 1: she's reminding us of what really matters as we pursue 25 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:32,080 Speaker 1: a full, successful life, and she's doing it with radical gentleness. 26 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:36,319 Speaker 1: Nikola is a psychologist, yoga teacher, and the author of 27 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 1: several books on healing and mental wellness. She's the creator 28 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:42,920 Speaker 1: of The Relaxed Woman, a guidebook for women who are 29 00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:45,240 Speaker 1: ready to let go of the grind and reconnect with 30 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 1: the life rooted in joy, presence, and rest. That last 31 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 1: one is a big one. Her book blends evidence based 32 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:55,400 Speaker 1: psychology with ancient wisdom and a whole lot of self compassion, 33 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:58,480 Speaker 1: and her message is clear, you don't have to burn 34 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:01,920 Speaker 1: out to matter gets a medal for that. I have 35 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:03,840 Speaker 1: to be honest with you, guys. When I first saw 36 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 1: the title of this book, The Relaxed Woman, I kind 37 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:10,680 Speaker 1: of giggled to myself like it kind of made me 38 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:13,919 Speaker 1: laugh because I was like, oh, wow, hah, the relaxed Woman. 39 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 1: What a concept. It was so foreign to me and 40 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:20,160 Speaker 1: so abstract to me at the time that it really 41 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:23,640 Speaker 1: caused me to get introspective and think about am I 42 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 1: a relaxed woman? Was my mother a relaxed woman? Do 43 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:32,399 Speaker 1: I even know any relaxed women? And if I don't, why? 44 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 1: This conversation with Nikola gave me the language for something 45 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 1: that I've been feeling for a long time, that slowing 46 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 1: down isn't giving up, it's actually a strength. So let's 47 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 1: get into it with Nikola. Jane Hobbs. Nikola Hobbs, Welcome 48 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:51,959 Speaker 1: to the bright Side. 49 00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:54,919 Speaker 2: Ah, thank you so much for having me. I'm excited 50 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:57,360 Speaker 2: to talk all about rest and relaxation with you. 51 00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:00,800 Speaker 1: Let's start here. So you write the beginning of your 52 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:03,360 Speaker 1: book that you spent much of your adult life working 53 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:07,680 Speaker 1: as a psychologist and therapist and living as the opposite 54 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:10,760 Speaker 1: of a relaxed woman. What are the signs of an 55 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:11,840 Speaker 1: unrelaxed woman? 56 00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:16,400 Speaker 2: So probably that is something that a lot of women 57 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 2: can relate to. And I think some of the key 58 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:21,440 Speaker 2: signs are living with this sense of inurgency. There was 59 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:23,680 Speaker 2: too much to do in never enough time. And I 60 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:26,400 Speaker 2: think we fit that in our bodies and our minds racing, 61 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:29,760 Speaker 2: and the tightness of our muscles and the quickness of 62 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:32,800 Speaker 2: our breath. And I think there's also a fear of 63 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:38,000 Speaker 2: rest that emerges when we are on relaxed women because 64 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 2: we spent so much of our life in survival mode 65 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:44,160 Speaker 2: that our nervous systems no longer know how to switch 66 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 2: into that parasympathetic state of ease and peace and slowness. 67 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 1: What was the turning point for you? When did you 68 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 1: realize that you not only needed to learn more about 69 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 1: how to relax, but also embody the principle of it 70 00:03:59,400 --> 00:03:59,840 Speaker 1: as well. 71 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:02,640 Speaker 2: I think it was a combination of things. I knew 72 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 2: for a long time that I needed to rest and 73 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:08,800 Speaker 2: relax more, and as a psychologist and the therapist, I'd 74 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:13,880 Speaker 2: read the research and I knew that stress was the 75 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:17,000 Speaker 2: cause of a lot of my personal health issues. And 76 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:20,839 Speaker 2: it got to a point where I hit burnout, and 77 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:23,960 Speaker 2: I think for many women, that's the turning point. And 78 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:27,680 Speaker 2: I started having conversations with more and more women who 79 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 2: I work with in therapy. Once I kind of been 80 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 2: through my own what I now call relax with a 81 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:38,120 Speaker 2: journey and return to work and started to hit echoes 82 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:42,480 Speaker 2: of my own experiences in what they were experiencing as well, 83 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:46,479 Speaker 2: so whether they came to me for support with relationship 84 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 2: with food or thinking about whether they wanted to, had 85 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 2: children or issues at work. There was the same underlying 86 00:04:56,160 --> 00:05:00,919 Speaker 2: guilt that was associated with resting, and that was keeping 87 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 2: them on this cycle of compulsive busyness followed by burnout 88 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:08,200 Speaker 2: and followed by them returning to that same pace of life. 89 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:11,800 Speaker 1: You mentioned that you started to see these symptoms of 90 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 1: being unrelaxed manifest in actual physiological and health symptoms. What 91 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 1: did that look like for you? 92 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:23,040 Speaker 2: So for me, a big one was insomnia and sleeplessness 93 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:28,560 Speaker 2: and just finding it completely impossible to I suppose settle 94 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:31,160 Speaker 2: is the word that comes to mind, this sense of 95 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:34,240 Speaker 2: not being able to even after doing a hard day's 96 00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:38,679 Speaker 2: work and feeling exhausted. My brain wasn't able to slow down, 97 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 2: my muscles weren't able to soften, and it felt almost 98 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:46,599 Speaker 2: impossible to fall asleep. That's a key factor for a 99 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:51,159 Speaker 2: lot of women, is that we have worked really hard 100 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:54,720 Speaker 2: and we lie in bed at night and still our 101 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:57,160 Speaker 2: mind is wearing with to do lists of all the 102 00:05:57,240 --> 00:05:59,679 Speaker 2: things we haven't done, of all the things we feel 103 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 2: like we should be getting done or need to get 104 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:05,920 Speaker 2: done tomorrow. So that sleeplessness was a big one, and 105 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:10,000 Speaker 2: then also it affected my hormones my partner and I 106 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 2: were trying for a baby at the time, and it 107 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:17,680 Speaker 2: affected my fertility. So I think even though we kind 108 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:22,599 Speaker 2: of see rest as something that is indulgent in a way, 109 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:25,200 Speaker 2: and I think that's what we've internalized from society, it 110 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:29,160 Speaker 2: has this huge knock on effect on every area of 111 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 2: our life and every aspect of our health or well being. 112 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 1: That is so real. That part that you mentioned about 113 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:39,919 Speaker 1: internalizing these messages about what a good girl looks like 114 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 1: or what a successful woman looks like, and how much 115 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:47,799 Speaker 1: rest women who fit into those archetypes actually are allowed 116 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:51,040 Speaker 1: to enjoy. So can you unpack for us where do 117 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:54,320 Speaker 1: these stories come from? How do we learn them as women? 118 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:57,600 Speaker 2: The top stories and these internalized narratives that we have 119 00:06:58,279 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 2: our rest is lazy, rest is selfish, and I'm not 120 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:08,440 Speaker 2: allowed to rest unless everything is done. And these come 121 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 2: from the patriarchal norms of our society, whereas women, we've 122 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 2: been conditioned to believe that we need to be selfless 123 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 2: in order to be worthy. And then also the other 124 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:24,160 Speaker 2: pressure that I think a lot of women go through 125 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:31,360 Speaker 2: is we live in a very capitalist, individualistic, productivity obsessed society. 126 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:36,840 Speaker 2: So there is also not only you need to be selfless, 127 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:38,960 Speaker 2: but you need to be constantly doing, and you need 128 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 2: to be constantly achieving and breaking glass ceilings. And between 129 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 2: those two narratives, there's very little time for rest. So 130 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:50,480 Speaker 2: I think the culture is a huge factor. And then 131 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 2: I think also it's around the way we've been brought up. 132 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 2: And if as children we never see our mothers or 133 00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:00,480 Speaker 2: our grandmothers or the women in our life rest, it 134 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:04,560 Speaker 2: becomes normalized that rest is something that women just don't do. 135 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:08,920 Speaker 2: We work and we care. That's how we are worthy. 136 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:12,320 Speaker 2: So when we stop doing those things, who are we 137 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 2: and are we worthy? 138 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:17,840 Speaker 1: I actually had this moment when I first held the 139 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:22,720 Speaker 1: physical copy of your book, The Relaxed Woman, and the 140 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:26,280 Speaker 1: title kind of stopped me in my tracks because it's 141 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:30,559 Speaker 1: not language that I use or really recognize in other women. 142 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 1: We also have to talk about the connection between relaxation 143 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 1: and safety, which is something that you explore a lot 144 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:41,560 Speaker 1: in your book. Why are these two themes connected? 145 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:46,679 Speaker 2: So the way I see relaxation is it's really when 146 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:49,560 Speaker 2: we are relaxed, it's a sign that our nervous systems 147 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 2: feel safe, even if there are chronic stresses going when 148 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:57,960 Speaker 2: in our lives, which The reality is for most of us, 149 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:01,520 Speaker 2: whether it's our personal lives or more collectively, we have 150 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:06,680 Speaker 2: these stresses and responsibilities and expectations that we're juggling and 151 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:09,920 Speaker 2: we're experiencing not just in the present, but also that 152 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 2: live within us from the past and from traumatic experiences 153 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 2: that we might have been through. And so relaxation is 154 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:22,120 Speaker 2: a sign that even with all of that, right now, 155 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 2: in this moment, our nervous system sense that we are safe. 156 00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 2: Because when we are save, our stress response, which is 157 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:33,320 Speaker 2: off our parasympathetic nervous system, which is the rest and 158 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:36,160 Speaker 2: digest or rest and restore part of our nervous system, 159 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:40,160 Speaker 2: becomes dominant and our bodies, our cells, our psyches start 160 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:44,199 Speaker 2: to heal. And that only happens when we feel safe. 161 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 1: There's this phenomenon that can happen where stress feels so 162 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:55,360 Speaker 1: familiar that it starts to feel like home. That is 163 00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 1: a phrase that you use in your book. How do 164 00:09:58,000 --> 00:09:59,080 Speaker 1: we unravel that? 165 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 2: And I think that that is the default for many 166 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:06,400 Speaker 2: of us is we have spent so many years feeling 167 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:11,800 Speaker 2: stressed that now that feels like hone, rather than after 168 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:14,199 Speaker 2: we've done a hard day's work or a hard day's mothering, 169 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:17,720 Speaker 2: we return to a place of ease and a piece 170 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:22,280 Speaker 2: of restoration and understanding some of the psychology and the 171 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:26,160 Speaker 2: neuroscience can be really empowering and really helpful because once 172 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:30,520 Speaker 2: we begin to see how our brains are basically prediction 173 00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:36,880 Speaker 2: machines and they love familiarity, that familiarity isn't always what's 174 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 2: best for us, and so it's beginning to untangle for ourselves. Okay, 175 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 2: what am I feeling right now? And is it unfamiliar 176 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:47,960 Speaker 2: or is it actually unsafe? 177 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:51,679 Speaker 1: How does our body and our mind give us signs 178 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 1: that we need to slow down. 179 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:57,679 Speaker 2: I love this idea of stress languages, and I think 180 00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:00,400 Speaker 2: a bit like love languages that we all have own 181 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 2: that are slightly different. And it's really whenever our natural 182 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:10,960 Speaker 2: traits and quirks and temperaments that can't amplified or they 183 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 2: can't much more extreme, that is a sign that we're stressed. 184 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:20,679 Speaker 2: We've been in survival mode, and we need to prioritize 185 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:24,400 Speaker 2: rest and start to slow down. So, for example, if 186 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:29,680 Speaker 2: we are very thoughtful, that can then shift into overthinking 187 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:34,400 Speaker 2: and that paralysis by analysis, or if we have a 188 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:38,200 Speaker 2: deep sense of responsibility for it may be our families 189 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:40,720 Speaker 2: or our communities or for the world that can shift 190 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:45,160 Speaker 2: into martyrdom, so becoming more extreme and more intense, or 191 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 2: if we're really passionate about things, that can shift into obsession, 192 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:55,719 Speaker 2: so being really aware when anything becomes compulsive or impulsive 193 00:11:56,679 --> 00:12:00,720 Speaker 2: or that reactivity. We kind of feel it our bodies 194 00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:04,840 Speaker 2: and it can come out across as emotional outputs for 195 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:07,079 Speaker 2: some people, and for other people we can turn it 196 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:11,360 Speaker 2: inwards into ourselves. So it can be really helpful to 197 00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:16,360 Speaker 2: begin to just think about what our stress languages are 198 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:20,240 Speaker 2: in the way that our bodies and our behaviors and 199 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:24,760 Speaker 2: the emotions and sensations we experience begin to communicate with us. Okay, 200 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:26,480 Speaker 2: we're kind of our limit right now. 201 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:29,760 Speaker 1: And the thing about stress languages is that they don't 202 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:34,680 Speaker 1: just impact us. They impact our relationships and they impact 203 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:37,200 Speaker 1: the way that we interact with the people that we love. 204 00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:40,400 Speaker 1: I know that you interviewed a lot of women through 205 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:42,839 Speaker 1: your research for this book and also women in your 206 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:46,800 Speaker 1: practice as a therapist and psychologist. What are the ways 207 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:53,000 Speaker 1: in which you've witnessed chronic stress and signs of unrelaxation 208 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:56,200 Speaker 1: come out sideways relationally. 209 00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:59,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, well, just as we're talking about that 210 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 2: it's interesting. I had a conversation with my partner recently 211 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:07,160 Speaker 2: and we were talking about the book coming out, and 212 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:10,200 Speaker 2: I said to him, how do you perceive me when 213 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:14,920 Speaker 2: I am unrelaxed and I'm stressed? And the word that 214 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:19,120 Speaker 2: came to mind for him was unforgiving, And I thought, oh, 215 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:22,480 Speaker 2: you know, that's not something that I would think of 216 00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:25,720 Speaker 2: myself as necessarily or want to be. But when we 217 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:29,440 Speaker 2: are stressed, that's what happens. We don't have the same 218 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:35,560 Speaker 2: capacity for compassion and for forgiveness. And it can be 219 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:38,360 Speaker 2: a really powerful conversation to have with the people in 220 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:41,760 Speaker 2: our lives to help us look at us, you know, 221 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:46,600 Speaker 2: take a look at ourselves and think, maybe prioritizing rest 222 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:50,560 Speaker 2: isn't just for me, it's for the people around me 223 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:53,679 Speaker 2: as well, because I think when we sow in that 224 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:57,760 Speaker 2: state of stress and overwhelm and exhaustion, we become a 225 00:13:57,760 --> 00:13:59,599 Speaker 2: bit blind to the impact that that's having when the 226 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:02,880 Speaker 2: people around us. That's what I found in the conversations 227 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:06,400 Speaker 2: with a lot of women is when we are stressed 228 00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:11,719 Speaker 2: in our relationships, we become people that we don't necessarily 229 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 2: want to be. 230 00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 1: We've got to take a quick break, but we'll be 231 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:23,280 Speaker 1: right back. It almost feels like we're witnessing this reckoning 232 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:26,400 Speaker 1: of these ideas right now. And I don't know that 233 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 1: that reckoning is leading to the kind of action that 234 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:33,440 Speaker 1: we really need to see, but just conversationally anecdotally, I 235 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:38,760 Speaker 1: know I'm having conversations with my female friends about how 236 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:42,520 Speaker 1: we clung to this idea of these strong independent women 237 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:46,920 Speaker 1: for so long, and how it's just exhausting, like we 238 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:49,400 Speaker 1: just want to relax, we just want to live that 239 00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:52,920 Speaker 1: soft life. What are you observing in terms of the 240 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 1: cultural conversation around these narratives right now? In this cultural moment. 241 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:02,000 Speaker 2: There is definitely is shift happening, like you say, and 242 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:06,520 Speaker 2: it's beautiful, And I also think sometimes it is missing 243 00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:11,560 Speaker 2: the point because either rest is seen as a productivity tool, 244 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 2: we just wear rested and then we can go back 245 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:18,400 Speaker 2: and work even harder, or rest is seen as a 246 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:21,920 Speaker 2: kind of esthetic, you know, it has to look beautiful, 247 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 2: which is actually more exhausting. Like I know, when I rest, 248 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:27,920 Speaker 2: it's usually I've got a twelve months old, so it's 249 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:31,200 Speaker 2: with like raisins and crams all over the floor and 250 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:34,360 Speaker 2: it's just lying down for a minute with toys everywhere. 251 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:37,880 Speaker 2: Or looking out the window, or just you know, like 252 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:40,240 Speaker 2: I'm teaching him to peel us that summer really slowly 253 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:44,000 Speaker 2: at the moment. And I find that so RESTful because 254 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:46,600 Speaker 2: it is just forcing everything to slow down. That is 255 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:49,760 Speaker 2: the reality for most of us in our lives. And 256 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:51,960 Speaker 2: yet you see it on social media. I mean, it 257 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:55,560 Speaker 2: looks beautiful, but it isn't realistic, and it just places 258 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:58,720 Speaker 2: even more pressure on ourselves that rest has to look 259 00:15:58,720 --> 00:15:59,360 Speaker 2: a certain way. 260 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:02,320 Speaker 1: It also feels like so much of that is for 261 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 1: this external, performative version of rest and relaxation as opposed 262 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:10,160 Speaker 1: to really tending to the inner garden. 263 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 2: Yes, and I think that's the thing is when we 264 00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:20,080 Speaker 2: rest and we relax, it's unseen, it's invisible, and so 265 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:23,240 Speaker 2: I think in a way that's why it's difficult to 266 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:30,000 Speaker 2: show and to share authentically, especially online, but in our 267 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 2: personal relationships and in our communities. I actually think that's 268 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:38,320 Speaker 2: one of the most important things is letting other people 269 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:43,360 Speaker 2: see us rest and resting together, So letting our children 270 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:46,600 Speaker 2: see us rest, letting our partners see us rest, letting 271 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:51,000 Speaker 2: our mothers see us rest, because that helps to desolve 272 00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 2: some of the guilt and some of the shame. Around 273 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:54,360 Speaker 2: it and it helps to normalize it. 274 00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:57,680 Speaker 1: So how can we normalize rest in our own lives? 275 00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:02,320 Speaker 1: Like you talk about there being the kind of small, quiet, 276 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:06,640 Speaker 1: invisible way is that we can implement rest. What does 277 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:08,480 Speaker 1: that look like? Give me three steps. 278 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:10,520 Speaker 2: What I was finding as I began talking about the 279 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:12,600 Speaker 2: book a bit more is that women would often say 280 00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:15,480 Speaker 2: to me, I just want to relax quickly. I want 281 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:18,760 Speaker 2: a method to relax quickly, and which kind of goes 282 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:21,399 Speaker 2: against some of the ethers of the book, which is 283 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:23,840 Speaker 2: slowing down that The reality is most of us only 284 00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:27,879 Speaker 2: have micro moments to relax. So I came up with 285 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:32,160 Speaker 2: the acronym rest, so remember and find a really easy 286 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:34,879 Speaker 2: practice they can begins to wead into their lives. So 287 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:39,680 Speaker 2: our stands for recognize, So just recognizing that we're stress, 288 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:44,680 Speaker 2: that we're rushing, that we're feeling frustrated, and that gives 289 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:47,280 Speaker 2: us a sense of emotional validation for what we're going through, 290 00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:51,840 Speaker 2: which can already start to sue us. The E stands 291 00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:56,200 Speaker 2: for exhal so excel with intention. If we think about 292 00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:59,080 Speaker 2: blowing through a straw again, that sends a signal of 293 00:17:59,119 --> 00:18:02,520 Speaker 2: safeness to our assistant. And then S is for soften 294 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:06,640 Speaker 2: so just softening one area of your body. It could 295 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:09,560 Speaker 2: be your jaw, it could be your shoulders, it could 296 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:13,359 Speaker 2: be softening your belly. And then tea is for tend. 297 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:18,080 Speaker 2: So tending to ourselves and the situation with compassion, and 298 00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:22,320 Speaker 2: that compassionate act could be just some words of self compassion, 299 00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:25,600 Speaker 2: like for me, just saying to myself, take your time, 300 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:30,200 Speaker 2: there's no rush is really soothing. Or the compassionate act 301 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 2: could be just a hand on your heart or something 302 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:36,639 Speaker 2: like that. So seeing drawing on rest, so recognize what 303 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:41,119 Speaker 2: we're going through. Exhaling with intention, softening one area of 304 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:45,199 Speaker 2: our body, and then tending to ourselves with compassion is 305 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:47,240 Speaker 2: one way that we can begin to just weave these 306 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:49,160 Speaker 2: micro moments of rest into our lives. 307 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:52,840 Speaker 1: You are also right about some rituals that we can do 308 00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:57,840 Speaker 1: in order to awaken our safeness system. Tell us about 309 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:02,080 Speaker 1: grounding and yielding and reaching and pushing and releasing. 310 00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 2: Both stress and safeness are embodied experiences. So the way 311 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:09,760 Speaker 2: our nervous system moves into that state of rest and 312 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:14,320 Speaker 2: relaxation is through the body. So grounding is where we 313 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:18,119 Speaker 2: sense the earth beneath our feet, or if you're sitting down, 314 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:22,000 Speaker 2: sensing this sensation of the chair or whatever it is 315 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:26,320 Speaker 2: you are sitting on, just holding you. And that's really 316 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:29,400 Speaker 2: what yielding is is if we lie down on the floor, 317 00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 2: whether it's for thirty seconds or ten minutes at the 318 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:37,320 Speaker 2: end of a yoga class, just that sense of letting 319 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:40,080 Speaker 2: the earth come up to meet us, so letting our 320 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:44,320 Speaker 2: body know that we're held, and then we've got releasing. 321 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:48,280 Speaker 2: So we can do that by releasing the tension in 322 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:50,560 Speaker 2: an area of our body like could be draw could 323 00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:54,400 Speaker 2: be shoulders, or it could be if we're practicing, for example, 324 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:57,240 Speaker 2: holding onto a cushion and then letting it go. It 325 00:19:57,320 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 2: gives us that embodied experience of what it is like 326 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:01,480 Speaker 2: to release. 327 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:05,160 Speaker 1: I'm going to start weaving these into my day and 328 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:08,720 Speaker 1: seeing how I can incorporate these exercises. There is a 329 00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:11,720 Speaker 1: thought in the back of my mind, though, as a mom, 330 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:14,920 Speaker 1: as a wife, the house is a mess. I've got 331 00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:17,560 Speaker 1: a pack day, I don't feel like I've got things 332 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:21,239 Speaker 1: under control, and in those moments of heightened stress, it 333 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:25,840 Speaker 1: feels nearly impossible to kind of bring yourself back down 334 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:28,960 Speaker 1: to earth. What do you do in those moments? Because 335 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:31,760 Speaker 1: I know you're a mom, you're an author, you are 336 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:34,240 Speaker 1: a therapist. I know you have those moments still, So 337 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:35,760 Speaker 1: what do you do when that happens? 338 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:38,200 Speaker 2: A little phrase keeps coming to mind, and I think 339 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:41,200 Speaker 2: sometimes these mattress can be really powerful. And one phrase 340 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:43,240 Speaker 2: that keeps coming to mind at the moment is it'll 341 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:46,679 Speaker 2: have to do. Like whatever is going on around me, 342 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:50,280 Speaker 2: it'll have to do. And it helps lower the expectations 343 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:54,439 Speaker 2: of myself. And then another phrase I'll use is let 344 00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:57,720 Speaker 2: there be crumbs, And it almost just gives me permission 345 00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:02,280 Speaker 2: for life to be as it is right now, rather 346 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:05,720 Speaker 2: than waiting for everything to be finished and the emails 347 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:08,239 Speaker 2: to be sent and the dishes to be washed, and 348 00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:13,200 Speaker 2: then I can relax. It helps almost send that signal 349 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:16,359 Speaker 2: of safeness to my nervous system that it's okay if 350 00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:20,000 Speaker 2: things are messy right now. Things don't have to be perfect. 351 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:24,199 Speaker 2: And in fact, a lot of those rules that the 352 00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:27,280 Speaker 2: house should be clean all the time, we've internalized those. 353 00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:30,840 Speaker 2: I mean, who taught us that our kitchen surfaces should 354 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:34,639 Speaker 2: be come free all the time? That voice came from somewhere. 355 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 2: We witnessed it, And I think I'm not saying we 356 00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:40,800 Speaker 2: should all live in a mess the whole time, but 357 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:42,880 Speaker 2: I think there are moments of our lives where if 358 00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:46,159 Speaker 2: we let there be mess, it makes our lives so 359 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:49,960 Speaker 2: much easier. Yeah, because there's always going to be something 360 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:51,920 Speaker 2: else that needs doing well. 361 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:57,200 Speaker 1: The idea of letting there be mess feels so pertinent 362 00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:00,920 Speaker 1: for the women in my life or single parents, because 363 00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:05,200 Speaker 1: oftentimes they don't have the resources to have someone clean 364 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:07,880 Speaker 1: their house all the time, and all the workfalls on them. 365 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:11,119 Speaker 1: And I think there is this assumption that relaxation is 366 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:13,800 Speaker 1: a privilege or a luxury. Again, this comes back to 367 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:17,680 Speaker 1: some of the messaging and conditioning that we're unpacking here. 368 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:20,000 Speaker 1: Why do you rebuke that? 369 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:24,520 Speaker 2: So I don't necessarily rebuke it, because in the society 370 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:30,520 Speaker 2: we live in, it is a privilege for lots of people. 371 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:34,440 Speaker 2: And if we do have more money, more resources, whether 372 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:38,440 Speaker 2: that's social support or material resources, it's far easier to 373 00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:40,640 Speaker 2: get the rest we need. Yeah, as saying that as 374 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:44,080 Speaker 2: a mom who has I'm with my child twenty four seven, 375 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:49,320 Speaker 2: it's really difficult to find those spaces. But also I 376 00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:54,400 Speaker 2: think it's more helpful to look at rest as a birthright, 377 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:58,320 Speaker 2: as something we all need. It's a biological necessity that 378 00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 2: is harder for some people to expeliseperience. They're necessarily seeing 379 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:07,119 Speaker 2: rest as a privilege or a luxury, because as human beings, 380 00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:10,680 Speaker 2: we do need rest. And it's about saying, how can we, 381 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:16,000 Speaker 2: even if we're single parents, even if we're experiencing all 382 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 2: the chaos of the world and we've got chaos in 383 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:22,120 Speaker 2: our personal lives, how can we send signals of safeness 384 00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:25,120 Speaker 2: to our nervous system right now? And that can be 385 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:28,760 Speaker 2: hand on the heart, looking at the window. I've got 386 00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:31,679 Speaker 2: some really nice smelling soap that I use in the 387 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:34,160 Speaker 2: bathroom when I wash my hands, and it's all those 388 00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:38,959 Speaker 2: sensory signals that can begin to send signals to our 389 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:42,080 Speaker 2: nervous system that say you are safe in this moment. 390 00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:45,520 Speaker 2: And sometimes what I ask the women I work with 391 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:47,000 Speaker 2: to do is when they get to the end of 392 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:49,679 Speaker 2: the day, just pause and take a moment and think, Okay, 393 00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:55,200 Speaker 2: whenever I felt safe today, what moments have It's almost 394 00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:59,359 Speaker 2: that experience where your nervous system goes ah and they 395 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:01,879 Speaker 2: can just be my macrow moments. And then it's almost 396 00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:07,080 Speaker 2: how can we make those experiences into conscious practices that 397 00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:08,639 Speaker 2: are accessible for us? 398 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:10,600 Speaker 1: So almost keeping a log. 399 00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:13,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, like ah, yeah, this is this is what makes 400 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:19,480 Speaker 2: me feel safe wearing you know, like snugly fabrics and 401 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:23,720 Speaker 2: you know, cozy codes or nice socks, all those little 402 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:29,440 Speaker 2: things that we can start to consciously practice until those 403 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:32,360 Speaker 2: things but just become part of our normal, everyday life. 404 00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:35,040 Speaker 1: What I'm hearing you say throughout this conversation is that 405 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:39,280 Speaker 1: becoming a relax doesn't have to manifest in big, showy ways. 406 00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:41,800 Speaker 1: It's really in the smaller moments. 407 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:44,000 Speaker 2: Because so few of us have. You know, it would 408 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:46,800 Speaker 2: be lovely if we all had two weeks to go 409 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:49,720 Speaker 2: on a yoga retreat, right, It's kind of easy to 410 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:54,680 Speaker 2: relax in those places, But to relax amongst the demands 411 00:24:54,680 --> 00:25:00,159 Speaker 2: and responsibilities of everyday life. That is the practice. And 412 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:04,439 Speaker 2: as we find these micro moments of rest and in 413 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:07,639 Speaker 2: a way create those moments of rest because they are 414 00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:10,760 Speaker 2: always there. I think it's just that we're in so 415 00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:13,399 Speaker 2: much of a rush that we don't notice them. So 416 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:16,359 Speaker 2: for example, one of my favorite things to do is 417 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:20,119 Speaker 2: when I'm walking with my little one is looking at 418 00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:22,760 Speaker 2: the flowers growing through the cracks and the pavement, and 419 00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:25,160 Speaker 2: that is just a way to slow down. And sometimes 420 00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:27,520 Speaker 2: he'll reach out front the carrier and grab a leaf 421 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:32,400 Speaker 2: and it's just that little micro moment of being present 422 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:37,080 Speaker 2: and coming back into the safeness of this moment. But 423 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:39,080 Speaker 2: I think that is the beauty of being a relaxed 424 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:42,560 Speaker 2: woman is that it doesn't have to be huge shifts. 425 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:48,800 Speaker 2: It happens one deep breath, one kind of lying on 426 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:51,080 Speaker 2: the floor, one looking at the moment of looking out 427 00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:54,399 Speaker 2: the window. It happens in these tiny moments of shifts 428 00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:54,960 Speaker 2: at a time. 429 00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:59,399 Speaker 1: It's interesting that that example of relaxation and rest that 430 00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:03,600 Speaker 1: you just provide it involved your child, because I find 431 00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:08,520 Speaker 1: that children have a way of simultaneously making us feel 432 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:12,280 Speaker 1: more present, and my kids helped me to slow down 433 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:15,560 Speaker 1: and appreciate life more. And then at the same time, 434 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:19,480 Speaker 1: motherhood in and of itself, and the constant mental load 435 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:22,200 Speaker 1: and the constant work and the fact that you never 436 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:27,200 Speaker 1: have any breaks that makes me feel less relaxed. There's 437 00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:31,920 Speaker 1: definitely nuance in motherhood when it comes to relaxation. And 438 00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:35,040 Speaker 1: you mentioned that you wrote this book before you had 439 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:38,520 Speaker 1: your baby, and then you edited it after you gave birth. 440 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:42,160 Speaker 1: I'm so curious how motherhood changed the way you saw 441 00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:45,119 Speaker 1: your writing research and relationship with relaxation. 442 00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:48,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I mean what you touched on there 443 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:50,560 Speaker 2: to forgive me. Is It's just the paradox, isn't it 444 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:55,000 Speaker 2: of motherhood? Is it's so exhausted and yet exhausting, and 445 00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:59,200 Speaker 2: yet it's so giving, and so you know, it reminds 446 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,480 Speaker 2: us of what is. But yeah, So I wrote it 447 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,480 Speaker 2: when I was pregnant and then edited it when my 448 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:10,840 Speaker 2: little boy was very young, and I think it allowed 449 00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:13,359 Speaker 2: me to embody it, to embody the principles, and to 450 00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:18,800 Speaker 2: experience just how difficult it is to rest. And I 451 00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:22,119 Speaker 2: think a lot for me personally, the barriers to rest 452 00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:27,719 Speaker 2: pre motherhood were internalized and psychological. There was a lot 453 00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:32,440 Speaker 2: of guilt around resting, a lot of just not knowing 454 00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:34,480 Speaker 2: how to rest or what it really was. And then 455 00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:38,640 Speaker 2: I became a mother and it became there were very practical, 456 00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:45,160 Speaker 2: logistical barriers to getting the rest that I needed. And 457 00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:48,680 Speaker 2: I don't know whether I would have written the book 458 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:55,840 Speaker 2: differently necessarily, but it really felt like this book matters. 459 00:27:56,520 --> 00:28:00,480 Speaker 2: It made me realize this book matters absolutely does. 460 00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:03,640 Speaker 1: Where are you on your relaxed journey? 461 00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:07,800 Speaker 2: I think it changes every day. I think that's the thing. 462 00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:12,240 Speaker 2: I It's one of those things that for me, rest 463 00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:16,159 Speaker 2: and relaxation comes so much more easily now, and I 464 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:20,480 Speaker 2: think I've untangled a lot of my self worth from 465 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:23,520 Speaker 2: my productivity. I mean, I think motherhood does that anyway, 466 00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:27,359 Speaker 2: because it's just a very different way of existing. But 467 00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:30,480 Speaker 2: there is still there are still moments when I find 468 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:34,560 Speaker 2: myself slipping back into patterns, or if there's a there's 469 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:38,040 Speaker 2: a difficult emotion or something that I'm dealing with, diving 470 00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:42,960 Speaker 2: back into work or busyness is something that happens that 471 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:44,960 Speaker 2: then I catch myself a lot quicker and I step 472 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:47,560 Speaker 2: out of it. And I also think it's really difficult 473 00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:51,800 Speaker 2: when we care so much about our work that something 474 00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:55,240 Speaker 2: that really helps me is and that always brings me 475 00:28:55,360 --> 00:29:00,680 Speaker 2: back to being a relax woman and how I can embody. 476 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:03,120 Speaker 2: That is what am I role modeling, Like what am 477 00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:07,640 Speaker 2: I role modeling to my son in terms of how 478 00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:10,040 Speaker 2: women live? And what am I role modeling to the 479 00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:14,440 Speaker 2: other women in my life because I think, like we 480 00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:17,160 Speaker 2: touched them earlier, we need to We need to see 481 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:20,880 Speaker 2: other women rest so that we feel permission that we 482 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:22,360 Speaker 2: can do that for ourselves. 483 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:25,640 Speaker 1: It's time for another short break. We'll be right back, 484 00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:32,440 Speaker 1: and we're back with Nicola Jane Hopps. Well, you've inspired 485 00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:37,000 Speaker 1: me to be more RESTful and you have about you, 486 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:41,320 Speaker 1: so role model check. And since you are a relaxation 487 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:46,040 Speaker 1: expert and role model in this space, Nicola, I wanted 488 00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:49,400 Speaker 1: to quiz you on a few social media trends and 489 00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:52,560 Speaker 1: terms related to rest and relaxation. You know, as we've 490 00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:59,360 Speaker 1: been talking about how societal conditioning impacts our definition of relaxation, 491 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,080 Speaker 1: social media is a platform that comes to mind for me. 492 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:07,560 Speaker 1: So here are a few new trends and terms that 493 00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:09,720 Speaker 1: are a bit more specific than you know, the classic 494 00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:12,840 Speaker 1: couch potato reference. So I'll give you a term and 495 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:16,240 Speaker 1: then you can define it. Okay, bed rotting. Do you 496 00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:16,960 Speaker 1: know what this one is? 497 00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:19,440 Speaker 2: Oh no, I haven't heard of that. 498 00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:23,840 Speaker 1: Okay, So bed rotting is a term that describes a 499 00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:26,840 Speaker 1: person who stays in bed for an entire day without 500 00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:30,560 Speaker 1: basically doing anything substantial. You see. 501 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:32,800 Speaker 2: That feels lovely where I think if you'd said that 502 00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:35,000 Speaker 2: to me five years ago, I would have been so 503 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:37,160 Speaker 2: judgmental about it, But now I might. I could do 504 00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:38,000 Speaker 2: its some bed ritting. 505 00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:41,560 Speaker 1: Wait, that's so interesting. This journey has allowed you to 506 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:44,520 Speaker 1: be more accepting of like kind of just being lazy. 507 00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:47,360 Speaker 2: It's not this terrible thing that We've been taught it 508 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:49,520 Speaker 2: is like to lay in beddle day that you know. 509 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:53,080 Speaker 2: That sounds you know as a sleeproprive mom, that sounds amazing. 510 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:57,479 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I totally agree. Okay. This next one is 511 00:30:57,920 --> 00:30:58,960 Speaker 1: herkle durkle. 512 00:30:59,280 --> 00:30:59,360 Speaker 2: No. 513 00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:01,280 Speaker 1: I don't know what that means either. Okay, this is 514 00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:04,440 Speaker 1: funny because I'm I'm not on trend. This is a 515 00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:08,600 Speaker 1: Scottish term. So this means to lie in bed or 516 00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:12,360 Speaker 1: lounge about when one should be up and about. Oh 517 00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:13,560 Speaker 1: I just learned about this one. 518 00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:16,280 Speaker 2: That's lovely. Yeah, so I thank you. 519 00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:20,240 Speaker 1: How about forest bathing? Are you familiar with this one? 520 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:24,840 Speaker 2: Oh? Yes? Okay, so that is being in a nature 521 00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:28,280 Speaker 2: in woodlands, in forest with the sunlight coming through the trees, 522 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:34,200 Speaker 2: usually barefoot, and being there like bathing, savoring in in 523 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:36,080 Speaker 2: the sunlight in the forest air. 524 00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:38,720 Speaker 1: Yes. Our friends in Japan they know how to do 525 00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:43,360 Speaker 1: this one right. Okay, next one goblin mode. 526 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:46,160 Speaker 2: I have not heard of that. I like it already. 527 00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:50,160 Speaker 1: So I feel like goblin mode is adjacent to bed riding. 528 00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:56,160 Speaker 1: It's basically just being unapologetically self indulgent and having all 529 00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:58,200 Speaker 1: your favorite snacks. This is what I do when I'm 530 00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:01,360 Speaker 1: in goblin mode. It's like absolutely no makeup. My hair 531 00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:05,840 Speaker 1: probably looks insane. It's like super big and frizzy and messy, 532 00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:08,560 Speaker 1: and I probably have a bunch of gummy candy on 533 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:10,360 Speaker 1: my bed and I'm just living my best life. 534 00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:14,160 Speaker 2: What about rewilding, Yeah, so I have heard of this. 535 00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:17,800 Speaker 2: I think sometimes this is more of a spiritual experience 536 00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:23,680 Speaker 2: in the sense of we are becoming untamed and we 537 00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:27,240 Speaker 2: are becoming more of our animal. 538 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:30,400 Speaker 1: Sell I like this term rewilding. Now I'm going to 539 00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:33,760 Speaker 1: challenge myself to use it in my vernacular. It's so good. 540 00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:39,240 Speaker 1: I'm curious. In your research, did you learn anything about 541 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:43,440 Speaker 1: social media contributing to this need to constantly seem busy? 542 00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:47,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think there was definitely an echo of social 543 00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:53,320 Speaker 2: media contributing to the comparative side of busyness. Like's if 544 00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:55,320 Speaker 2: we're looking at social media and it seems like everyone 545 00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:58,440 Speaker 2: else is doing and achieving, and they're getting up at 546 00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:02,000 Speaker 2: four am and exercising before work and they've got a 547 00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:05,840 Speaker 2: side hustle, then it always feels like we're falling behind. 548 00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:08,200 Speaker 2: And sometimes I do wonder if we take a step 549 00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:11,400 Speaker 2: back from social media, how that will begin to impact 550 00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:15,000 Speaker 2: our relationship with rest. So just checking in before we 551 00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:17,600 Speaker 2: pick up our phone, or if we catch ourselves on 552 00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:21,600 Speaker 2: social media and asking ourselves, does this feel restorative or 553 00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:24,600 Speaker 2: is this keeping my stress response switch on? Can be 554 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:28,360 Speaker 2: enough to just just open a little bit of curiosity 555 00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:30,880 Speaker 2: into what might be a bit more of a RESTful 556 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:32,240 Speaker 2: experience for us. Well. 557 00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:35,680 Speaker 1: The fact that these silly terms are trending on social 558 00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:39,160 Speaker 1: media speaks to the fact that there are a lot 559 00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:43,200 Speaker 1: of young people out there who have this desire for 560 00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:45,720 Speaker 1: rest and relaxation. But what's fascinating to me about this 561 00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:47,480 Speaker 1: is that it almost seems like we have to come 562 00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:51,560 Speaker 1: up with these silly little terms to describe it instead 563 00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:55,080 Speaker 1: of just calling it what it is. It feels like 564 00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:58,320 Speaker 1: there is this like latent guilt present like I can't 565 00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:01,360 Speaker 1: I can't just say rest, I have to come up 566 00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:04,520 Speaker 1: with a term like goblin mode or bed robbing to 567 00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:05,120 Speaker 1: describe it. 568 00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:07,960 Speaker 2: And yeah, I feel if that is the entry point, 569 00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:09,759 Speaker 2: then let's embrace it. 570 00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:12,839 Speaker 1: Nicola, one last question for you. We open this conversation 571 00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:16,440 Speaker 1: by talking about how we can recognize the signs of 572 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:20,200 Speaker 1: an unrelaxed woman. So to send us off on a 573 00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:23,440 Speaker 1: bright side note, what are the signs of a relaxed woman. 574 00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:27,000 Speaker 2: I think the top one is feeling safe and free 575 00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:28,280 Speaker 2: in our bodies and in the world. 576 00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:31,360 Speaker 1: Nicola, thank you so much, Thank you for having me. 577 00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:38,719 Speaker 1: Nikola Jane Hobbs is a psychologist and the author of 578 00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:42,120 Speaker 1: The Relaxed Woman, Reclaim Rest and Live an empowered, joy 579 00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:46,600 Speaker 1: filled life. It comes out July first, and it's available 580 00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:51,880 Speaker 1: for pre order now. The bright Side is a production 581 00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:55,480 Speaker 1: of Hello Sunshine and iHeart podcast and as executive produced 582 00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:59,120 Speaker 1: by Reese Witherspoon and me Simone Boyce. Production is by 583 00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:03,239 Speaker 1: Acast Creatives Studios. Our producers are Taylor Williamson, Adrian Bain, 584 00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:07,120 Speaker 1: and Darby Masters. Our production assistant is Joya putnoy A. 585 00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:11,200 Speaker 1: Cast executive producers are Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder. Maureen 586 00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:15,400 Speaker 1: Polo and Rhese Witherspoon are the executive producers for Hello Sunshine. 587 00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:18,719 Speaker 1: Ali Perry and Christina Everett are the executive producers for 588 00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:23,000 Speaker 1: iHeart Podcasts. Tim Palazola is our showrunner. Our theme song 589 00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:25,239 Speaker 1: is by Anna Stump and Hamilton Lakehauser.