1 00:00:03,560 --> 00:00:11,040 Speaker 1: It's that time. Time time, time, Luck and load. The 2 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:13,040 Speaker 1: Michael Verie Show is. 3 00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:13,560 Speaker 2: On the air. 4 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 1: This Mark is our guest. 5 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:32,600 Speaker 3: We're going to talk about how to reach him, how 6 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:35,560 Speaker 3: to learn more about his positions. And by the way, folks, 7 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:39,320 Speaker 3: I've always said, in twenty years of doing this, I 8 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:41,519 Speaker 3: have always said, I am never going. 9 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:43,199 Speaker 1: To tell you or try to tell you. 10 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:45,920 Speaker 3: I wouldn't be so immodestous to believe that I could 11 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:47,959 Speaker 3: tell you anything that you'd do anyway. But I'm never 12 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 3: going to tell you what to think. I'm only going 13 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 3: to ask that you think and if you're getting your opinion. 14 00:00:56,400 --> 00:00:58,040 Speaker 3: Are the same people who told you to take the 15 00:00:58,040 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 3: COVID shot, the same people who told you that Joe 16 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 3: Biden was perfectly lucid, or the same people that told 17 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:06,119 Speaker 3: you that Kamala Harris was sober, or the same people 18 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 3: who we could go on and on. 19 00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 1: I play this game forever if. 20 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:12,920 Speaker 3: That's the case, at least at least seeks some alternate positions. 21 00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:16,440 Speaker 3: Because you said something when I said you said that 22 00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 3: you're not a climate change denier, that you consider yourself lukewarm, 23 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:21,319 Speaker 3: I'm going to make a statement I don't know you, 24 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:24,320 Speaker 3: and it is intended to be a touch provocative, but 25 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:27,280 Speaker 3: that doesn't mean I don't believe it. I think that 26 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:29,800 Speaker 3: a lot of people I won't speak for you, even 27 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:33,160 Speaker 3: who've studied the science. It's sort of like why people 28 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:36,080 Speaker 3: are agnostic instead of atheistic. I think that a lot 29 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:39,199 Speaker 3: of people don't want to say it's all bunk, it's 30 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 3: all a hoax, because then they will be marginalized even 31 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 3: if they believe that. Is that a fair thing to say? 32 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's an accurate characteristic of it. 33 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 4: There's a well organized effort we're in the scientific community 34 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:58,200 Speaker 4: to sensor people who cast out on their religion, their orthodoxy. 35 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:01,560 Speaker 4: And while I firmly am not of the opinion that 36 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 4: it's all a hoax, I think a lot of the 37 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 4: policies and I wouldn't even say a hoax would be 38 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:07,279 Speaker 4: an accurate description. 39 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:08,600 Speaker 2: I would call it more so a scam. 40 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 4: That's a more uh, that's more of an accurate additive 41 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:14,360 Speaker 4: to describe this entire thing. Now, I wouldn't say that 42 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 4: the science is necessarily a scam, because there's a legitimate 43 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:20,400 Speaker 4: basis to it, and I firmly in an agreement with 44 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:24,560 Speaker 4: that point and off the record, but a lot of 45 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:27,519 Speaker 4: the policies, these green energy policies could very well, I 46 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 4: would very much agree, be characterized as a scam because 47 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 4: they're not going to make our standard living better. But 48 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 4: as far as the scientific side of things go, when 49 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:37,519 Speaker 4: you even questioned just a little bit of their narrative 50 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:40,200 Speaker 4: with a lot of these sciences, it's these high priests 51 00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:41,079 Speaker 4: of climate science. 52 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:42,440 Speaker 2: It's the Church of climatology. 53 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 4: As a Secretary Chris right Like Energy Secretary Chris Like 54 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:50,240 Speaker 4: described it on CNN to Caitlin Collins last week. Again, 55 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 4: this goes back to what we were talking about before. 56 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:55,880 Speaker 4: When we decided to put Congress in charge of allocating 57 00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 4: and apportioning money. 58 00:02:57,160 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 2: To scientists to study this issue. 59 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 4: We put policy goals as the desire, policy goals as 60 00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 4: really what's in charge of determining the scientific results. And 61 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 4: so we have a whole army of science that's at 62 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:13,120 Speaker 4: universities and in the government who their careers depend on 63 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:15,919 Speaker 4: getting that funding and if their research comes up empty 64 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:19,000 Speaker 4: on there being a quote unquote climate crisis, well they're 65 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:21,800 Speaker 4: livelihoods the right stake and people like me who have 66 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:23,919 Speaker 4: no stakes in this game because I'm not in a 67 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:25,080 Speaker 4: university and. 68 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:26,960 Speaker 2: I'm not lying, not any longer because i just. 69 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:30,519 Speaker 4: Graduated with my Bachelor's of Science degree in atmospheric science, 70 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:34,120 Speaker 4: but because I'm not a government employee, because I'm not 71 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 4: an academic, I have those stakes, financial stakes in this game. 72 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:40,680 Speaker 4: And people like me, other mean always disliked me, that 73 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 4: are out there speaking truth about this and being honest 74 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:46,800 Speaker 4: about it. We put their careers on the line, other 75 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:48,840 Speaker 4: careers on the line, and it makes them angry because 76 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 4: we are spilling the beans and upsets them because that 77 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 4: could you know, they could lose their funding if if 78 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:59,120 Speaker 4: a new administration, like the career administration, deems a lot 79 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:01,080 Speaker 4: of this stuff to be focused. 80 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 1: I think that's fair. 81 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 3: I'm just always disturbed when there are subjects about which 82 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 3: we're not supposed to talk or question the narrative. I'm 83 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 3: always uncomfortable when there needs to be a universality of agreement. 84 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:23,039 Speaker 3: I don't think there's universality of agreement or complete consensus 85 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:25,920 Speaker 3: as to color the color of the sky, much less 86 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 3: the best birth control, whether the Pfizer shot worked, whether 87 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 3: global warming is a hope. 88 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:35,239 Speaker 1: And it's this idea that if you so much as ask. 89 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:38,360 Speaker 3: About it, it's a Salem witch trial. You know, you 90 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:40,919 Speaker 3: need to be buried at the stake. And I find 91 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:44,200 Speaker 3: that to be like an ad hominem attack. When someone 92 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 3: is debating you, it's a sign of great weakness and 93 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:49,480 Speaker 3: unsteady ground that they're on. 94 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 1: Oh. 95 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:55,040 Speaker 4: Absolutely, it's an I'm thinking, Sam, I mean, bias that 96 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:57,800 Speaker 4: cannot be question is not science. It's propaganda. And that's 97 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 4: the words of Aaron Aaron Rodgers. And I think that 98 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 4: anybody should be able to question anything. And that's that's 99 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 4: the that's the value, the beauty of the First Amendment, 100 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:11,120 Speaker 4: which guarantees the right to freedom of speech in this country. 101 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 2: And and that's an important aspect of science. 102 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 4: Science is not science is never in the history of 103 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:22,839 Speaker 4: human civilization. Science is never advanced by experts. And I 104 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 4: use that term lightly. 105 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:24,560 Speaker 2: Of course. 106 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:27,920 Speaker 4: Science is never advanced by people throwing their hands up 107 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:31,239 Speaker 4: in the air and agreeing with each other. Science always 108 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:34,800 Speaker 4: advances when somebody comes forth with new information that challenges 109 00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:39,000 Speaker 4: the status quo, and people like uh, you know, Galileo 110 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 4: and people other people to hick the guy that proposed 111 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:44,040 Speaker 4: I don't know his name, but the guy that proves 112 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:47,560 Speaker 4: the idea of washing your hands to prevent material affections 113 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:49,840 Speaker 4: and stuff like that. He was she was shunned by 114 00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:52,800 Speaker 4: the community for decades and he ended up being right. 115 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:56,599 Speaker 3: So science always and he reduced he reduced surgery about 116 00:05:56,640 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 3: like ninety nine percent. 117 00:05:57,640 --> 00:05:59,120 Speaker 1: It was such a simple thing. 118 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:01,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, literally, Yeah. 119 00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:05,600 Speaker 4: And when you when you redd, when you cannot question that, 120 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:08,160 Speaker 4: and that becomes that becomes a problem. And there's been 121 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 4: an organized effort, especially within the climate community, and then 122 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:15,880 Speaker 4: obviously not my realm of knowledge, but the medical community. 123 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 2: We saw this with COVID. 124 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:20,920 Speaker 4: There were very striking parallels between the censorship that went 125 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:24,120 Speaker 4: on during the pandemic and the censorship that is going 126 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:26,440 Speaker 4: that had been going off with climate for decades. And 127 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:28,840 Speaker 4: there's a big political agenda behind a law of this. 128 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:31,920 Speaker 4: It's about control and power and the scientists who are 129 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:36,520 Speaker 4: perpetulating these ideologies, their careers, their their their money, their salaries, 130 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:40,120 Speaker 4: their their research, all of it depends on government funding. 131 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:42,320 Speaker 2: And if and they they're part of. 132 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 4: This system, whether or not they want, Whether or not 133 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:47,200 Speaker 4: do you actually want to be a part of it 134 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:50,840 Speaker 4: or not for that purpose is definitely a debate to 135 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:52,800 Speaker 4: be had. There's probably a lot of people in there 136 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 4: who really want to be honest about it. But if 137 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 4: they were to speak out, Uh, their careers are over. 138 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:01,200 Speaker 4: And so we've created this conversation been having on this conversation. 139 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:04,880 Speaker 4: We've created a dialogue that's toxic and it's been very 140 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 4: detrimental to the progress of science, and it pretty much 141 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 4: a violation of, you know, our fundamental freedoms we have 142 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:11,600 Speaker 4: in this country that we cherish. 143 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:14,200 Speaker 3: I think the thing that bothers me most most, Chris 144 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:16,240 Speaker 3: Marts is our guest. I think the thing that bothers 145 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:20,679 Speaker 3: me most is is not just that journalists who should 146 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 3: be fact seekers truth tellers to the extent that they 147 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:27,720 Speaker 3: can find it, which means after investigation. It's not just 148 00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:31,400 Speaker 3: that they try to marginalize and in some cases destroy 149 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 3: that the careers of people who simply raise questions. It's 150 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:39,080 Speaker 3: that people do it in the name of science that 151 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 3: I find downright blasphemous, because while I'm not a scientist, 152 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 3: purely and simply, the scientific method and the means by 153 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:52,200 Speaker 3: which we advance civilization means questioning everything. And you know 154 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 3: that there were there were great scientists who were burned 155 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:58,200 Speaker 3: at the stake, or those who had to change their 156 00:07:58,200 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 3: opinion at the last. 157 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 1: Moment to avoid it. Galileo among them Newton among them. 158 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:08,480 Speaker 3: Descartes and and and that's that level of courage, bravery 159 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:13,080 Speaker 3: and willingness to challenge is how society advances to where 160 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 3: we are today. Our guest is Chris Marts. Hopefully he'll 161 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 3: stay with us for one more second. 162 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:29,320 Speaker 4: You e E Michael Berry, you are moy Randy Kings English. 163 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:31,640 Speaker 3: Chris Marts is our guest m A r t Z. 164 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 3: I found him on Twitter. It's not It's not all bad. 165 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:37,959 Speaker 3: Social media is not all bad. I follow people who 166 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:41,320 Speaker 3: pop up in my threads saying something interesting. I go 167 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 3: figure out, who is this person? What else have they written? 168 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:47,839 Speaker 3: Is it consistent? Who's paying their bills? Who are they, 169 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:50,000 Speaker 3: you know, trying to cozy up to? And I was 170 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:52,400 Speaker 3: very very interested in what this fellow had to say. 171 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:53,839 Speaker 3: I want to get into who you are in just 172 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 3: a moment. But you had a tweet it was actually uh, 173 00:08:57,880 --> 00:09:00,959 Speaker 3: It says, then why does the co two level increase 174 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:03,480 Speaker 3: year after year? I know why, But none of you 175 00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 3: wants to address the elephant in the room because you're 176 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:08,880 Speaker 3: too afraid to criticize the CCP. This is a discussion 177 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 3: that should be had more often, and isn't I would 178 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:13,360 Speaker 3: love for you to speak to that. 179 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:15,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's the way. 180 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 4: This is actually all I posted this morning on Twitter 181 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:21,000 Speaker 4: or x or whatever you want to call it. And 182 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 4: when we talk about carbon dioxide, now let's just hypothetically. 183 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 2: And again it's not what I this is not what 184 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:28,920 Speaker 2: I think. This is just simple. We're just going to 185 00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:31,360 Speaker 2: play Devil's advocate here for those for their listening. 186 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:35,679 Speaker 4: If carbon dioxide, you know, obviously and I agree, it's 187 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 4: the greenhouse gas. 188 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:38,000 Speaker 2: All this being equal calls is warming when you put 189 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:41,080 Speaker 2: in an atmosphere. But if it's really this, if it 190 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 2: really is a detrimental. 191 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 4: To the state of human welfare, if it's going to 192 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 4: cause the planet to overheat rapidly to the point it's 193 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:51,640 Speaker 4: going to threaten human civilization. If if we are to 194 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 4: believe that the two is underpinning this alleged climate crisis, 195 00:09:56,800 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 4: then we need to look at where the largest source 196 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 4: of the emissions will coming from. And most western countries, 197 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:06,200 Speaker 4: the United States included, have been reducing their carbon dioxide 198 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:10,920 Speaker 4: emissions steadily over the last thirty years, but places of 199 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 4: countries like China and India have increased theirs, and it 200 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:17,720 Speaker 4: goes up exponentially each year, and a lot of people 201 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:20,120 Speaker 4: will claim, oh, well, China, you know, they're building more 202 00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:22,360 Speaker 4: solar power than the rest of the world, but they're 203 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:25,120 Speaker 4: also building more coal fire power plants. That doesn't matter 204 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 4: how many, and they buy more than the rest of 205 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:29,840 Speaker 4: the will combined on the on the cold power power 206 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:32,240 Speaker 4: plant front, so it doesn't matter how much solar they 207 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:34,400 Speaker 4: add to the grid. And they also built a lot 208 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:36,800 Speaker 4: of fler that they then ship to their countries for 209 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:40,240 Speaker 4: They've built a lot of solar panels over there, But 210 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:43,120 Speaker 4: until the coal plants come offline, then there at the 211 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 4: CO two level, emissions there are not going to is 212 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:47,040 Speaker 4: not going to are not going to fall, They're going 213 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:49,640 Speaker 4: to keep going up. But a lot of climate activists 214 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:55,440 Speaker 4: really really like to give China a free pass in India, 215 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:58,600 Speaker 4: free pass because they are quote unquote the world's factory. 216 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:00,840 Speaker 4: They manufacture a lot of our are good Now. The 217 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:04,520 Speaker 4: United States has increased production. Actually, our GDP has increased 218 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 4: significantly since two thousand fox We're still a really big manufacturer, 219 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:10,080 Speaker 4: but we still import a lot of goods from China 220 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:12,880 Speaker 4: and a lot of countries. Many United States to an extent, 221 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:16,400 Speaker 4: have actually exploited a lot of their manufacturing to China, 222 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:19,040 Speaker 4: and it's helped make manufacturing elsewhere non competitive. 223 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:20,320 Speaker 2: It's part of their political. 224 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:22,680 Speaker 4: Agenda to see control over industry, and this is coming 225 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:25,000 Speaker 4: primarily from obviously the left. 226 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:26,040 Speaker 2: They want to control. 227 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:28,439 Speaker 4: If you can control energy, you can control industry, you 228 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:29,720 Speaker 4: can control people se if you drive it. 229 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 2: Out of the United States, it allows them to control 230 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:35,960 Speaker 2: people here more and more willingly, more more forcially rather 231 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:40,360 Speaker 2: and so there's a striking. 232 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:43,319 Speaker 4: Parallel between people that support the climate crisis narratives and 233 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:47,280 Speaker 4: people who have a more left wing political ideology, and 234 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 4: so they look at it for these political lenses, and 235 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:52,840 Speaker 4: so they don't want to criticize the CCP or they 236 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:55,320 Speaker 4: really maybe want to even cozy up to them, because 237 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:57,640 Speaker 4: they don't want to they don't want to take they 238 00:11:57,679 --> 00:12:00,200 Speaker 4: don't want to talk about reducing emissions in China, which 239 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:03,680 Speaker 4: is really driving up the atmosphere carbon dioxide concentration now 240 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 4: because other countries have decarbonized. And so the refusal to 241 00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:11,240 Speaker 4: actually criticize China just goes to so that their entire 242 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:14,120 Speaker 4: movement really the bottom line here that it's political, it's 243 00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:16,280 Speaker 4: not based in scientific fact. 244 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:23,320 Speaker 3: Well, and I would argue my wife's from India and 245 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:26,640 Speaker 3: she grew up there, went to college there, and her 246 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:30,120 Speaker 3: family were all in the Indian military, and I've spent 247 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:31,800 Speaker 3: a lot of time talking and they were very high 248 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:35,440 Speaker 3: up in the Indian military about relations with China and 249 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 3: how sophisticated China is and how they can be both 250 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:42,959 Speaker 3: insidious in the things they will do and a long 251 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:48,600 Speaker 3: term effect, and you know, the kind of dynastic control 252 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:51,080 Speaker 3: they have allows them to take the long view because 253 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:53,760 Speaker 3: they don't have an election coming up. But I see 254 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:57,960 Speaker 3: a lot of external influence, particularly coming from China, on 255 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:03,839 Speaker 3: American NGO and activists and universities and grants and politicians. 256 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:07,320 Speaker 3: And the argument is always that America is burning the 257 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:10,760 Speaker 3: earth up, America's polluting the earth. Statistically, that's not true. 258 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 3: But not only that, I think there is a motive 259 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:15,679 Speaker 3: behind this, and I think it is terribly sinister, and 260 00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:18,240 Speaker 3: that to me, is far more disturbing than to lie 261 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:18,760 Speaker 3: they're telling. 262 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:21,920 Speaker 2: Yes, I would agree with I would agree with that wholeheartedly. 263 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:26,240 Speaker 1: It affects science and that should never be the case. 264 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:29,240 Speaker 3: You know, you mentioned medicine earlier, and I wouldn't want 265 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:30,679 Speaker 3: it to be the case that if I'm having a 266 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:33,640 Speaker 3: heart attack, they didn't give me the treatment that would 267 00:13:33,679 --> 00:13:38,040 Speaker 3: save my life if some external country was paying to 268 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:41,319 Speaker 3: prevent that treatment because they wanted to dominate that treatment. 269 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:44,000 Speaker 3: Energy is at the core of everything we do. You 270 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:47,440 Speaker 3: can look at how the Germans bogged down in Russia 271 00:13:47,559 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 3: and because they ran out of gas in their tanks 272 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:52,599 Speaker 3: and how that affected you know, the bullets and the 273 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:55,920 Speaker 3: Luftwaffe and the soldiers and the training and the tanks. 274 00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:57,840 Speaker 3: I mean, energy is at the very core of our 275 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:01,319 Speaker 3: national security. So this strikes need to be an issue 276 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:04,560 Speaker 3: far bigger than perhaps we're giving it the attention that 277 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:05,440 Speaker 3: it deserves. 278 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:08,080 Speaker 4: Well, absolutely, I mean everything, as you said, everything we 279 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 4: do requires energy. And if you can control energy, if 280 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:12,679 Speaker 4: you can have a monopoly on that, then you can 281 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:15,720 Speaker 4: control people. You can control their behaviors, you can control 282 00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:19,120 Speaker 4: you know, everything that they can they can they can. 283 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:19,960 Speaker 2: Control their consumption. 284 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 4: And this is what this is largely what a lot 285 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 4: of the climate cult movement is about, and a lot 286 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:26,320 Speaker 4: of the you know has been there's a lot of 287 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:31,240 Speaker 4: influence from the Chinese government on on that around the world, 288 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:33,360 Speaker 4: not just the United States, but everyone in Europe and 289 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:40,840 Speaker 4: then elsewhere, and the people, the people in universities really 290 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:44,680 Speaker 4: have this ideology don't and it just seems to originate 291 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:47,640 Speaker 4: uh in academia that that the United States is to 292 00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 4: blame for all the world's problems that we have. And 293 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:52,200 Speaker 4: yet you know, in case of in the case of 294 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:54,240 Speaker 4: the environment, you look at the actual data on that 295 00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:57,480 Speaker 4: most of the plastic pollution comes from Asia, and you 296 00:14:57,520 --> 00:15:00,120 Speaker 4: know most of it again, most of the emissions CO two. Now, 297 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:02,440 Speaker 4: I don't think COOTO is a pollutant. It's obviously necessary 298 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:05,000 Speaker 4: for life on Earth through the means of photosynth is. 299 00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:06,920 Speaker 4: But a lot of that you know, if you if 300 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:08,440 Speaker 4: you want it, if you want to claim it's the pollutant, 301 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:11,880 Speaker 4: then you know they commit further than China, and a 302 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:13,520 Speaker 4: lot of there are and a lot of people this 303 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:16,560 Speaker 4: is another interesting point when it comes to the CO 304 00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:20,680 Speaker 4: two emissions. A lot of people on the left will 305 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 4: add it well built, well they'll slay in the United 306 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 4: States and they say, well, yeah, China has higher emissions 307 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:28,840 Speaker 4: in total, but the United States has more emissions per capita. 308 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:30,840 Speaker 4: And I say it's amits more pro person And that's 309 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:33,520 Speaker 4: true because a lot of China's are industrial based. But 310 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 4: the atmosphere, if we talk about climate, well, the Earth's 311 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:40,080 Speaker 4: atmosphere or the temperature, which is a function of radiation balance. 312 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:42,720 Speaker 4: That doesn't care about per capita, which you know, who 313 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:44,880 Speaker 4: admits the most per person. That cared about which country 314 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 4: or who's emitting the most in total. 315 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:47,280 Speaker 2: And that's going to be of. 316 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:50,160 Speaker 4: Course to China if per capita emissions actually matter. These 317 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:53,600 Speaker 4: people were screaming up by Rain and paloal and Kuwait 318 00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:56,280 Speaker 4: because they emit by far more emissions per capita than 319 00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:58,720 Speaker 4: the United States. But they don't scream their heads off 320 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:01,240 Speaker 4: at them because in reality those countries are very small, 321 00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:03,600 Speaker 4: but they have hired for capital, but the United States 322 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:06,720 Speaker 4: doesn't admit. Again, you guys think really gets into the 323 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:08,480 Speaker 4: top fifteen emissions per capital. 324 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:10,880 Speaker 2: Actually Australia and Canada. 325 00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 4: Which are highly industrialized economies, more for a capital of 326 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:15,880 Speaker 4: the United States. So they just want to dunk on 327 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 4: the United States. They hate the West and they want 328 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:22,680 Speaker 4: to bring down our civilization, and they want to control energy. 329 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:25,720 Speaker 4: They want to make manufacturing and capitally when they want 330 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:28,720 Speaker 4: to make manufacturing un I think non competitive so that 331 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:31,160 Speaker 4: they can control people very finistors. 332 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:35,840 Speaker 3: Is the unvarnished truth. Chris Marts, You're awesome. Thank you 333 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 3: for making time for us. I hope we. 334 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:40,400 Speaker 1: Can have you back again and again and again. You're fantastic. 335 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:44,000 Speaker 2: Absolutely thanks for having me. Only listen to the Michael 336 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:46,360 Speaker 2: Berry Show podcast if you dare. 337 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 3: Jennifer Say has been in the news the last couple 338 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:55,080 Speaker 3: of weeks when she made the statement that she wanted 339 00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:59,120 Speaker 3: to not have an h R department. She is the 340 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:05,040 Speaker 3: founder of a women's sportswear company called xxx Y, but 341 00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:07,960 Speaker 3: she came to our attention originally when she was a 342 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:10,360 Speaker 3: senior executive. I think she was a chief marketing officer 343 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:16,400 Speaker 3: of Levi Strauss and she didn't play by the corporate rules. 344 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:21,719 Speaker 3: She has really made a name for herself the last 345 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:25,479 Speaker 3: couple of years as somebody with truly independent thought that 346 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:30,240 Speaker 3: represents what the vast majority of Americans believe and want 347 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:34,719 Speaker 3: in our companies, but seems to be alien in corporate culture. 348 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:37,400 Speaker 3: She's our guest, Jennifer, Welcome to the program. 349 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:39,520 Speaker 5: Thank you so much for having me. 350 00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:43,439 Speaker 3: I had the distinct honor and pleasure of meeting you 351 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:46,640 Speaker 3: in Palm Beach and having a conversation about your clothing, 352 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:49,359 Speaker 3: and I have since learned that my wife does in 353 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:51,359 Speaker 3: fact own your clothing. I was not aware of that 354 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:54,480 Speaker 3: at the time. So yes, you were right when you said, 355 00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:58,760 Speaker 3: I bet your wife does own our clothing, and she does. 356 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 3: You made the news this week xxxy I believe is 357 00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:05,920 Speaker 3: how you pronounce it xxxy athletics, which you can find 358 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:10,080 Speaker 3: easily online. Talking about HR departments. Why did you say that, 359 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:13,919 Speaker 3: you know, Michael. 360 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:17,520 Speaker 5: It's so funny. I said it at a conference. It 361 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:21,680 Speaker 5: was a libertarian conference called Freedom Fest. It wasn't the 362 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:26,840 Speaker 5: topic of the conversation. The topic of the conversation was 363 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:33,919 Speaker 5: about how brands and businesses can influence cultural conversations, and 364 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:36,440 Speaker 5: it was sort of a throwaway line. I've been saying 365 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:40,840 Speaker 5: it for years that I don't want HR. That HR. 366 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:43,359 Speaker 5: You know, while they used to represent you know, they 367 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:46,040 Speaker 5: used to be a support function. They handled payroll and 368 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:49,560 Speaker 5: benefits and all that operational sess you need. And they've 369 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:55,160 Speaker 5: become these officious home monitors over the years. And it's 370 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:57,960 Speaker 5: happened over the last I would say ten to twenty years, 371 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:01,879 Speaker 5: and they enforced a certain clients. They don't make anything. 372 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:06,840 Speaker 5: They I think diminish innovation and creativity because employees become 373 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:10,200 Speaker 5: afraid to speak that they might be, you know, say 374 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:13,240 Speaker 5: the wrong thing and quote unquote get in trouble with HR. 375 00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:17,160 Speaker 5: This is bad for business. And so as a startup, 376 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:18,920 Speaker 5: I get to run my business the way I want 377 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:21,399 Speaker 5: to run it, and I'm not going to have people 378 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:25,639 Speaker 5: that do that that inhibit creativity. So that's why I 379 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:28,679 Speaker 5: said I want no HR. It's a giant cost center 380 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:33,200 Speaker 5: that adds nothing to the top line, have no new products, 381 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:37,080 Speaker 5: no new marketing, nothing. So we'll do just fine without HR. 382 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:42,480 Speaker 5: And I cannot believe there's thoughts that it got. It's insane. 383 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:44,919 Speaker 5: Apparently a lot of people agree with me. 384 00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:48,840 Speaker 3: You know, it's interesting. I look at what Mike Lindell 385 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 3: has done selling pillows. He could have sold anything else. 386 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:55,719 Speaker 3: He became the face of a company and a person 387 00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:59,200 Speaker 3: that tamped into a certain mindset and. 388 00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:01,040 Speaker 1: He sold a lot products because of it. 389 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:05,720 Speaker 3: Steve Jobs really made us invest emotionally into this little 390 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:09,560 Speaker 3: thing he held in his hand that technologically delivered, and 391 00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:11,560 Speaker 3: it had to or they wouldn't have made it. But 392 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:15,040 Speaker 3: he caught our attention because he had a vision and 393 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:17,840 Speaker 3: because he was saying things that appealed to us. And 394 00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:21,120 Speaker 3: I think what's happening is as the founder and CEO 395 00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:26,159 Speaker 3: of XXXY Athletics, people are saying Okay, here's a person. 396 00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:28,560 Speaker 1: Who came from a corporate background who really. 397 00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:32,240 Speaker 3: Understands the frustration we all have, and she's giving voice 398 00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:35,680 Speaker 3: to that for folks who don't know. Catch people up 399 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:38,479 Speaker 3: to speed on how you first came to my attention 400 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:41,240 Speaker 3: and your background with Levi Ostrauss and how that ended. 401 00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:46,639 Speaker 5: Yeah, I worked in corporate America, not just a Levi's, 402 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:49,520 Speaker 5: but other places as well, but certainly Levi's for the longest, 403 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:54,199 Speaker 5: for over thirty years. I would consider myself a brand 404 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:58,280 Speaker 5: builder and I love that work, and I love making 405 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:01,680 Speaker 5: products that people want to win, and marketing that they 406 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:06,080 Speaker 5: find inspirational and building brands. I mean your reference to Apple, 407 00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:08,480 Speaker 5: it's such a great one, you know, one of the 408 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:11,080 Speaker 5: greatest brands in the world, and you think about the 409 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:14,280 Speaker 5: category it existed in, which was this sort of boring 410 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:16,680 Speaker 5: you know, before Apple, it was just boring. 411 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:18,040 Speaker 1: It was all about. 412 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:22,560 Speaker 5: Efficiency, and there was no style, there was no emotion 413 00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:24,840 Speaker 5: to it. And he built this brand that was based 414 00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:31,040 Speaker 5: on creativity, not efficiency, you know, and that has changed 415 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:34,760 Speaker 5: the way we all live. Really. It's quite fascinating to me, 416 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:38,359 Speaker 5: and I think one of the observations that I have 417 00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:40,639 Speaker 5: had over the last you know five to ten years 418 00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:48,280 Speaker 5: is the Left has really taken over corporations and brand building, 419 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:51,200 Speaker 5: and they're sort of smuggling these ideas into the culture. 420 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:54,240 Speaker 5: And unless we sort of take back some of the 421 00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:59,280 Speaker 5: cultural artifacts and influence people their hearts and minds, I 422 00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:03,800 Speaker 5: don't think we have any chance of returning sanity to 423 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:09,760 Speaker 5: the masses to people because these terrible ideas get kind 424 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:12,280 Speaker 5: of smuggled into the culture, not just through art, but 425 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:15,679 Speaker 5: through brands as well. That was my inspiration for starting 426 00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 5: XXXY Athletics that I spent thirty years in corporate America, 427 00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:21,639 Speaker 5: twenty three of them at Levi's. I climbed the corporate 428 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:24,000 Speaker 5: ladder from assistant marketing manager all the way up to 429 00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:29,400 Speaker 5: brand president. I was very outspoken during COVID about lockdowns 430 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:32,440 Speaker 5: and the harms to children from school closures in particularly. 431 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:36,680 Speaker 5: I did that in San Francis. I was indeed right 432 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 5: about that, and I was also nice and very diplomatic, 433 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:44,080 Speaker 5: because I'm not super like in your faith person. I 434 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:49,720 Speaker 5: thought if I presented data and was sort of just direct, 435 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:54,800 Speaker 5: but you know not Ragie, that's not my that's not 436 00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:58,280 Speaker 5: my style. But that didn't go great in San Francisco 437 00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:02,040 Speaker 5: for me. And you know, ironically, I'm the only probably 438 00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:04,840 Speaker 5: executive in all of San Francisco that actually was sending 439 00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:09,479 Speaker 5: her kids to two public schools, and so, you know, 440 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 5: Fleet in San Francisco was raging at me that I 441 00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:15,639 Speaker 5: can't say these things. Meanwhile, they're sending their children to 442 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:17,840 Speaker 5: in person private schools because the private schools did in 443 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:21,720 Speaker 5: fact open in the fall of twenty twenty. So they're 444 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:23,920 Speaker 5: paying seventy thousand dollars a year to send their kids 445 00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:26,200 Speaker 5: to a private school and telling the rest of us 446 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:29,359 Speaker 5: we're not allowed to have the same thing, concluding the 447 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:32,040 Speaker 5: sixty percent low income students in San Francisco. So that 448 00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:36,080 Speaker 5: hypocrisy just enraged me, and it didn't go great for 449 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:38,119 Speaker 5: me in San Francisco. I ended up moving. 450 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:40,040 Speaker 2: People were txing me. 451 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:42,399 Speaker 5: And publishing my address online and chasing me down the 452 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:45,200 Speaker 5: street and all kinds of terrible things, and it was 453 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:49,160 Speaker 5: certainly tough at work, and I ended up resigning after 454 00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:53,200 Speaker 5: moving in the spring of twenty twenty two. And as 455 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:57,359 Speaker 5: I started, I took a little break, and I started 456 00:23:57,359 --> 00:23:59,600 Speaker 5: to interview for jobs again because I have to work 457 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 5: a breadwinner in my family, and I had some very 458 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:09,240 Speaker 5: unpleasant interactions with HR, which cemented my views. I actually 459 00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:12,280 Speaker 5: went through an interview process with an eight billion dollar retailer, 460 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:16,080 Speaker 5: very big retailer, went through ten rounds of interviews something 461 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:18,240 Speaker 5: like that to be the CEO. The last person was 462 00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:22,040 Speaker 5: the HR lady, and in the summer of twenty twenty three, 463 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:24,840 Speaker 5: she said to me, her first question is will you 464 00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:27,440 Speaker 5: apologize for what you've done? 465 00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:28,280 Speaker 1: Wow? 466 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:37,240 Speaker 5: Wow, which was say public school should be open? Yeah, 467 00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:40,920 Speaker 5: I said no, I was right about everything. Why would 468 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:44,399 Speaker 5: I apologize? So I didn't get the job, as you 469 00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:48,400 Speaker 5: might imagine. 470 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 3: And of course that informs your opinion of HR. In 471 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:55,600 Speaker 3: any of us who have ever had that person in 472 00:24:55,960 --> 00:25:01,640 Speaker 3: HR who stifles creativity, who stifles spree decorps. There can 473 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:03,880 Speaker 3: be no jokes, there can be no pranks, there can 474 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:06,920 Speaker 3: be no laughing, there can be no kidding. Everything must 475 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:11,320 Speaker 3: be so serious and reviewed under a microscope and miserable. 476 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:14,720 Speaker 1: Jennifer Say is our guest. Her company is xx x 477 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:15,880 Speaker 1: Y athletics work. 478 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 3: But I'm reminded of someone proverb now quoted by Sheila 479 00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:26,680 Speaker 3: Jackson leans Michael Barry show, you're talking to, Jennifer says, 480 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:31,360 Speaker 3: to who was a longtime corporate leader at LEVI Strauss. 481 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:36,320 Speaker 3: She has created the company xx X y Athletics. She 482 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:42,520 Speaker 3: is portrayed as this, you know, zany woman out there 483 00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:46,320 Speaker 3: who is so right wing, but in fact she's just 484 00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:48,520 Speaker 3: a tiny little thing. I met her a few weeks 485 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:54,240 Speaker 3: ago in Palm Beach and she's a former US Gymnastics 486 00:25:54,440 --> 00:26:00,600 Speaker 3: National Championship competitor. She was a nineteen in the mid eighties. 487 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:04,120 Speaker 3: It's an incredible background. I used to go to Sunday 488 00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:06,480 Speaker 3: School with Mary lou Retton, and so I would put 489 00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:09,359 Speaker 3: you about on the same frame as Mary lou rettin 490 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:12,800 Speaker 3: those tiny little things and yet such a spark plug. 491 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:16,399 Speaker 3: How much of who you are today goes back to 492 00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:18,159 Speaker 3: your gymnastics background. 493 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:23,879 Speaker 5: I so much. I mean, that's why I want to 494 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:28,440 Speaker 5: protect the opportunity to compete, play and win in sports 495 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:32,560 Speaker 5: for young girls on an even playing field. I would 496 00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:36,520 Speaker 5: say I was probably born a very determined and disciplined person. 497 00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:39,280 Speaker 5: I think my dad would agree with that. I think 498 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:42,040 Speaker 5: I was a difficult child the parent because I was 499 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:46,720 Speaker 5: so determined. I just want to do gymnastics all the time. 500 00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:49,400 Speaker 5: I always wanted to go to a better gym. But 501 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:55,520 Speaker 5: those qualities were certainly shaped and honed in gymnastics because 502 00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:59,239 Speaker 5: it worked. The harder I work, the more disciplined, the 503 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,280 Speaker 5: more personally parents, the better I did. You know, I 504 00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:05,160 Speaker 5: made my first national team at about ten years old. 505 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:08,240 Speaker 5: I just wanted to keep moving up in the rankings. Now, 506 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:10,720 Speaker 5: there's a lot of bad stuff in gymnastics. There's a 507 00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:12,879 Speaker 5: lot of abuse, and I've written my first book was 508 00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:16,240 Speaker 5: about that. That's stuff we could set aside. I mean, 509 00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 5: certainly I wish that had not been my experience in 510 00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:24,000 Speaker 5: the sport, but there's so much good that happened, and 511 00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:27,880 Speaker 5: I think that it just makes me a person fit 512 00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:32,040 Speaker 5: and resilience. And I keep trying, I fall down, I fail, 513 00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:35,080 Speaker 5: I keep going. And isn't this what we want for 514 00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:37,760 Speaker 5: our children? This is what sports. I don't think we 515 00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:40,760 Speaker 5: care that much if they win gold medals. We want 516 00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:43,719 Speaker 5: them to have that training as young people so that 517 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:49,199 Speaker 5: they can be successful adults. And when we no longer 518 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:52,680 Speaker 5: protect women's sports as being for women only and they 519 00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:57,040 Speaker 5: don't have that even playing field, you know, I believe 520 00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 5: over time girls will stop playing because why would you? 521 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:03,679 Speaker 5: And then we've cut off not just their opportunity to 522 00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:07,919 Speaker 5: experience that joy in sports, but that sort of sport 523 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:11,879 Speaker 5: to leadership pipeline that I think I benefited from, and 524 00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:14,199 Speaker 5: so that's why I care so much about about this 525 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:16,880 Speaker 5: and really empowering female athletes. And I think the thing 526 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:20,120 Speaker 5: that's most grotesque to me about the situation that we're 527 00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:23,080 Speaker 5: in right now where you have male feelings girls and 528 00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:27,520 Speaker 5: women's opportunities and meddled is if they dare stand up 529 00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:32,520 Speaker 5: for themselves, they are just smeared and vilified, and a 530 00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:36,639 Speaker 5: warning shot is sent to every other little girl that 531 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:39,640 Speaker 5: she's better not stand up for herself. She's better let 532 00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:42,400 Speaker 5: that boy have what he wants because his feelings matter 533 00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:47,320 Speaker 5: more than her rights. And that is what's so distasteful 534 00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:50,880 Speaker 5: to me as someone that would bill call myself a feminist. 535 00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:54,520 Speaker 5: Haven't we been wanting our daughters to believe they can 536 00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:55,240 Speaker 5: do anything? 537 00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:55,960 Speaker 2: Yes? 538 00:28:57,320 --> 00:28:58,800 Speaker 1: Yes, I want my daughter. 539 00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:01,680 Speaker 3: She dates got tell you because of the world you 540 00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:04,000 Speaker 3: come out of, which was originally gymnastics. 541 00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:05,480 Speaker 1: To see Simone. 542 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:08,920 Speaker 3: Biles go after Riley Gaines in the way she did, 543 00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:10,800 Speaker 3: and she got a real SmackDown from I think that 544 00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:14,240 Speaker 3: was a real wake up call to Simone Biles. You're 545 00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:17,960 Speaker 3: on the wrong side of this issue. On the issue 546 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:20,600 Speaker 3: of gymnastics. You were one of the producers of a 547 00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:25,080 Speaker 3: movie called Athlete, a which won an Emmy for twenty 548 00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:29,880 Speaker 3: twenty Outstanding Investigative Documentary. It was a documentary on Larry 549 00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:34,480 Speaker 3: Nasser and the sexual abuse scandal at USA Gymnastics. 550 00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:37,560 Speaker 1: How did that happen? How was that allowed to happen? 551 00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:45,880 Speaker 5: The sport viewed the athletes as mere cogs, not as 552 00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:52,280 Speaker 5: human beings, and treated them horribly. I mean, one of 553 00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:54,840 Speaker 5: the things I wanted to make clear in the movie 554 00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:58,440 Speaker 5: is Larry Nasser was not won that apple. The entire 555 00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:03,640 Speaker 5: sports tree. These young girls as cogs and a wheel 556 00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:07,400 Speaker 5: meant to make money for USA Gymnastics and the US 557 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:11,480 Speaker 5: Olympic Committee. They are treated with zero humanity. They are 558 00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:14,960 Speaker 5: emotionally and physically abused, and that sets the stage for 559 00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:19,680 Speaker 5: the sexual abuse. And then these sports governing bodies, these 560 00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:24,640 Speaker 5: organizations like USA Gymnastics, the USOPC, they cover up any 561 00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:27,960 Speaker 5: abuse because they are trying to burnish an image in 562 00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:31,760 Speaker 5: gymnastics any way of happy, shiny little pixies. That's what 563 00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:35,360 Speaker 5: brings in the sponsorship dollars and pays the high salaries 564 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:38,680 Speaker 5: of the leaders at these sport governing bodies. The sport 565 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:42,480 Speaker 5: governing bodies will never do the right thing. They will 566 00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:47,360 Speaker 5: do the cowardly thing that they think presents the image 567 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:49,840 Speaker 5: that the public wants, which is why they're not going 568 00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:53,480 Speaker 5: to stand up to protect women's sports and girls' sports 569 00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:57,760 Speaker 5: until the public makes their views known. Eighty percent of 570 00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:00,360 Speaker 5: the public, eighty percent of Americans agree with you and 571 00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:02,720 Speaker 5: with me, because it's like a normal thing to think 572 00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:06,640 Speaker 5: that girls sports to see for girls only, But the 573 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:09,640 Speaker 5: vast majority of those are silent, and so these governing 574 00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:12,960 Speaker 5: bodies are catering to the very loud, woke minority. 575 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:19,120 Speaker 1: Jennifer say, that's how it happened. No protecting. 576 00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:23,720 Speaker 3: Polo Texas. For evile to occur, as for good people 577 00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:27,160 Speaker 3: to do nothing. To quote Burke, the company is called 578 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:30,120 Speaker 3: xx x Y Athletics, of which she is the founder 579 00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:35,960 Speaker 3: in CEO. A Stanford grad, a gymnastics standout, I wanted 580 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:36,520 Speaker 3: to get. 581 00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:39,160 Speaker 1: To writing because I always asked this question. 582 00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:42,840 Speaker 3: You wrote a book called Chalked Up, your autobiography of 583 00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:45,520 Speaker 3: your time as an elite gymnast, and when you left 584 00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:50,719 Speaker 3: Levi's you published in late twenty twenty two Levi's Unbuttoned. 585 00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:53,160 Speaker 3: The woke mob took my job, but gave me my 586 00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:57,200 Speaker 3: voice about your time there and how the woke mob 587 00:31:57,240 --> 00:31:59,520 Speaker 3: came after you. Take about a minute and a half 588 00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:02,200 Speaker 3: if you would and talk about the writing process for you, 589 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:04,200 Speaker 3: because I always encourage people to do this. 590 00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:06,360 Speaker 1: When do you write, how do you write? How do 591 00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:10,320 Speaker 1: you structure? That's so that's such. 592 00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:13,400 Speaker 5: A great question. Well, I would say with both of 593 00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:18,440 Speaker 5: the books I've written, it was almost like a fever dream. 594 00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:21,160 Speaker 5: I had an idea and I had to write it. 595 00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:23,240 Speaker 5: You know, when I wrote Chalked Up, my first book, 596 00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:26,320 Speaker 5: I'd never really written much of anything besides the college paper. 597 00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:28,440 Speaker 5: But I had an idea. I knew the tone of voice, 598 00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:30,920 Speaker 5: I knew the storyline, and I sat down and wrote 599 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:34,680 Speaker 5: it early mornings, late at night because I was working 600 00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:36,680 Speaker 5: a full time job with Levi asun Button. That was 601 00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:38,560 Speaker 5: my full time job. But I wrote them both in 602 00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:42,320 Speaker 5: about three months. I write regularly on my own subject. 603 00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:44,800 Speaker 5: I write appas all the time. I don't know, I 604 00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:47,240 Speaker 5: just enjoy it. I have an idea and then it's 605 00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:49,760 Speaker 5: just like this compulsion that I have to get it out. 606 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:56,960 Speaker 1: It's cathartic. Yeah, what's the book you haven't you would 607 00:32:57,040 --> 00:32:57,280 Speaker 1: like to? 608 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:01,760 Speaker 5: That's a xxxy athletic. 609 00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:06,360 Speaker 1: What is your number? 610 00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:09,800 Speaker 3: Close with what is your number one selling item and 611 00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:11,600 Speaker 3: what kind of I. 612 00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:15,160 Speaker 1: Got about forty five seconds left. What would you? Who 613 00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:16,280 Speaker 1: is the prime customer? 614 00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:18,800 Speaker 3: Why does somebody want to buy xxxy athletics? 615 00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:24,080 Speaker 5: The number one selling item is a logo key. It's 616 00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:26,240 Speaker 5: black with a green logo. We offer it for men 617 00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:30,720 Speaker 5: and for women. The number one selling customer is a 618 00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:34,880 Speaker 5: woman who did fourth in college and was a beneficiary 619 00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:38,160 Speaker 5: of Title nine and wants that same opportunity for her daughter. 620 00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:44,360 Speaker 1: Jennifer say, you're amazing, Keep doing what you're doing. Love 621 00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:48,720 Speaker 1: to have you back as nice left for me. Thank you, 622 00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:49,760 Speaker 1: and good night.