Speaker 1: Of the Law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies. These episodes are based on. These are our stories.
Speaker 3: Done done.
Speaker 2: Yay, that's messed up. An SVU podcast. We're back. My
Speaker 2: name is Lisa Traeger.
Speaker 1: And I'm Kara Klank And every week we recap an
Speaker 1: episode of Law and Order SVU. We talk about the
Speaker 1: true crime that it's based on, and here and there
Speaker 1: we talk to a fun guest and before that we
Speaker 1: sort of chit chat.
Speaker 2: And catch up. Hi, I'm curious. I'm curious. I need
Speaker 2: to know everything.
Speaker 1: I did the Disney thing, Guys, I did it. I survived,
Speaker 1: dizzy me. We had a great time.
Speaker 2: It was great. Uh, it's not as.
Speaker 1: Like overwhelming as I guess I thought it was gonna be.
Speaker 1: I was like really kind of nervous about it, and like,
Speaker 1: you know, I had like a note in my phone
Speaker 1: organizing people's recommendations and stuff, and and honestly, with kids
Speaker 1: like that are really little, they kind of want to
Speaker 1: go on sort of like the more basic rides. Anyway,
Speaker 1: So we got that little Genie pass and that got
Speaker 1: us onto a lot of rides without having to wait
Speaker 1: in line.
Speaker 2: So what are the little rides like? So you couldn't
Speaker 2: go on like the big ones? Oh, so what are
Speaker 2: the little rides done?
Speaker 1: My Toy Story Dumbo, Like there's a toy story ride
Speaker 1: that's buzz light Year. We went on Dumbo, where Rosie
Speaker 1: had a full fucking meltdown. We went on because like
Speaker 1: the numbers were a little weird, like with our group.
Speaker 1: You know, it was my it was our friend and
Speaker 1: her daughter who is my daughter's good friend, and then
Speaker 1: my daughter's other little bestie. Like some of the rides
Speaker 1: are perfectly fine set up for three people across, but
Speaker 1: like Dumbo, my daughter was like, I'm squaw Like she
Speaker 1: was too small, me and her and her friend in there,
Speaker 1: and I was like pressing my body up against the
Speaker 1: side as fast as hard as I could. But like
Speaker 1: it was also just the time of day where they
Speaker 1: had had lunch. They were peaks, they were acting peak
Speaker 1: crazy and then the crash was like on the Dumba ride,
Speaker 1: like she just had to have her spiral.
Speaker 2: You know, wait, did you have a dull whip? What
Speaker 2: did you eat? What'd you get? I didn't have to
Speaker 2: get a veggie. I should have.
Speaker 4: You have.
Speaker 1: We went to lunch at this place that had kind
Speaker 1: of like a weird menu, and so I just sort
Speaker 1: of ate the fries off of Rosie's plate because you know,
Speaker 1: famously Rosie doesn't like French fries, so I ate her fries.
Speaker 1: This place like literally had one vegetarian dish. Our friend
Speaker 1: got it. It was kind of weird. I had a
Speaker 1: couple bites. It was good, but I wasn't like that hungry.
Speaker 1: I didn't really We got colorful popcorn, which was the
Speaker 1: kids loved, but then was disgusting when we realized that
Speaker 1: we all had rainbow shit in our teeth, like we
Speaker 1: all had like, you know, a popcorn.
Speaker 2: Like gets in your teeth.
Speaker 1: Like I was like my Rosie was like, you have
Speaker 1: blue and green in your teeth, and I was like,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna throw up. But it was cute, like they
Speaker 1: like her friend kept going I want to go on
Speaker 1: the Star Wars ride, and I kept looking at the
Speaker 1: app and being like, it's a seventy minute wait, and
Speaker 1: like kids don't understand time, and we would wait in
Speaker 1: line for twenty minutes like for Dumbo, and they'd be like.
Speaker 2: This is boring.
Speaker 1: And I was like, you keep begging to go on
Speaker 1: a ride that's this time's four, So you guys don't
Speaker 1: understand time, so you know, you just keep saying maybe, maybe, maybe,
Speaker 1: and then you have to like avoid the things that
Speaker 1: they can't go on. But they had a great time.
Speaker 1: We did It's a Small World twice. They loved that.
Speaker 1: Oh cute, it was sweet. It was cute.
Speaker 2: Everybody in a parade, who did they meet?
Speaker 5: They?
Speaker 2: Who they mean?
Speaker 1: Oh the parade? Well they met Tigger. They met Tigger
Speaker 1: and they met Chip. You Chippendale not the cup sorry,
Speaker 1: not the cup of Chip Anddale. Sorry, share that Chippindale
Speaker 1: for you. That.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love Chip and Dale.
Speaker 1: And Chip was like doing a weird thing where he
Speaker 1: would talk to he wants the kids to walk with him,
Speaker 1: like he was like he wouldn't stop, and he was
Speaker 1: just like, come on, like doing you know, they can't talk,
Speaker 1: so they're just like doing the motion. So the kids
Speaker 1: were just like walking with Chip for a few minutes.
Speaker 2: It was really weird.
Speaker 1: We were like, can we stop for a picture? And
Speaker 1: Chip was just like partying and like, wouldn't do it.
Speaker 1: It was weird, but Tiger stop stop. They did a
Speaker 1: picture with Tigger. They saw lots of people and then
Speaker 1: the parade is like really out of this world, Like
Speaker 1: I started tearing up.
Speaker 2: I cried at the braid. What yeah, I cried at
Speaker 2: the parade.
Speaker 1: Like I cried at the parade because I was like,
Speaker 1: she's like loving it so much, like she just couldn't believe.
Speaker 1: It's just like all the characters come out, you know,
Speaker 1: like they see there was a cocoa float, there was
Speaker 1: a frozen float, a Mowana float like the ma Wana floats.
Speaker 1: Really obviously where the tears started coming, Like that movie
Speaker 1: was like very much a big part of our pandemic,
Speaker 1: and like you know, like we love Mowana and I
Speaker 1: just started I also was tearing up thinking about how
Speaker 1: much Oscar will love it when I bring him. So
Speaker 1: now I'm like, I gotta bring Oscar here. He loves
Speaker 1: these characters like more than Rosie. He loves Elsa, he
Speaker 1: loves Mauana like.
Speaker 2: This is you know, but he's not is he old
Speaker 2: enough to have been pissed? He didn't go?
Speaker 1: No, right, no, he's not old of the pissed, but
Speaker 1: he keep every time we talk about it, he'ps going
Speaker 1: and can I go? And I'm like, yes, next time
Speaker 1: you're coming. But I did you bring him something he
Speaker 1: doesn't like? Shit, I'm telling you, every time I bring
Speaker 1: him something, he doesn't care about it, Like he I
Speaker 1: was gonna get him a stuffy and I was like,
Speaker 1: every stuff I've brought him from one of our shows,
Speaker 1: he doesn't like it.
Speaker 2: He does or he doesn't not like it. That's what
Speaker 2: he inherited from you.
Speaker 6: I know.
Speaker 2: I know he likes Oscar and you connect.
Speaker 1: I know, and wrote that's where Rosie and you connect
Speaker 1: is that she just wants more and more, you know,
Speaker 1: cute stuff, and he like he will if I give
Speaker 1: him something that like maybe a listener gave me, or
Speaker 1: that I bought him while we were on a tour
Speaker 1: stop or something, he'll be like yay in a hug,
Speaker 1: hug it for three seconds, and then he drops it
Speaker 1: and doesn't care about it.
Speaker 5: Ever.
Speaker 1: Again, he does not have an attachment to stuff, which
Speaker 1: is you know, obvious from the way he throws things
Speaker 1: across the room all the time. But yeah, the parade
Speaker 1: made me tear up. And then I looked at my
Speaker 1: friend and I was like, I'm like tearing up. She goes, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm fully crying. I like didn't want you to see.
Speaker 1: Like we were both like the parade at the end
Speaker 1: is like, for some reason, really emotional.
Speaker 2: The kids are just so excited and it's like magic, Like, well,
Speaker 2: I have a few questions. One last time our friends
Speaker 2: took their daughters, they left before lunch. Yeah, so what
Speaker 2: happened this time? Like this time she wanted she liked it.
Speaker 2: She she was a mess. Yes she yeah, she did great.
Speaker 1: I mean we took them on thunder Mountain, you know,
Speaker 1: which is like it's kind of like a roller coaster
Speaker 1: but it doesn't go upside down, but it goes pretty fast.
Speaker 2: Like I liked it.
Speaker 1: It's like an old train ride or whatever, but it
Speaker 1: goes pretty fast. And I had the two girls, Rosie
Speaker 1: and her friend on my sides and they were like
Speaker 1: at first, Rosie goes, whow, I feel like.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna throw up, like but in like a fun way.
Speaker 1: And then she both of them just started going uh
Speaker 1: like they were not comfortable. Our friend's daughter, who's younger
Speaker 1: than them, hands up in the air, was like raging,
Speaker 1: like she loved it. Yeah, she's a little daredevil.
Speaker 2: She loved it.
Speaker 1: And so yeah, we were there from like We were
Speaker 1: there from like ninth I mean we left the house
Speaker 1: at seven fifteen, seven thirty, and like you know, getting
Speaker 1: there took an hour, and then parking took so long
Speaker 1: we got somehow spit back out instead of getting into
Speaker 1: the parking structure, so we had to.
Speaker 2: Go back in.
Speaker 1: But like I would say, in the park nine thirty
Speaker 1: to like six, we did a full, full time with
Speaker 1: the kids, and we couldn't stay for the fireworks because
Speaker 1: that would be like kind of crazy. But we so,
Speaker 1: I know, you want to know what Rosie picked.
Speaker 2: She took pictures. I also I have a pre question.
Speaker 2: She knows that there's just a man in the costumes.
Speaker 2: So did she still surrender to the magic or was
Speaker 2: she like is that an out of work actor? No,
Speaker 2: she did.
Speaker 1: She did, Like she didn't even ask me this time,
Speaker 1: like she did about Chuck E Cheese that one time.
Speaker 1: But she didn't even ask me. She was like, oh
Speaker 1: my gosh, tigger, oh my god. Like she you know,
Speaker 1: she wanted to who did we pass. We passed somebody
Speaker 1: and they were like, they were like, we want a picture.
Speaker 1: But the character was on their way to like a
Speaker 1: lunch break. We couldn't get them to stop, but she
Speaker 1: took pictures of all the different shits she wanted to buy.
Speaker 1: I really thought she was going to go with a stitch,
Speaker 1: big sleeping stuffy, like one of these big stuffies that's
Speaker 1: like weighted and kind of smashing.
Speaker 2: She ended up going with do you know the shoulder buddies? Now,
Speaker 2: I'll kind google it.
Speaker 1: I cones, Okay, there are these shoulder buddies at Disney
Speaker 1: where you put a magnet on your shoulder under your
Speaker 1: clothes and then the buddy sits on your shoulder.
Speaker 2: We saw a guy walking around.
Speaker 1: With chip on his shoulder and Rosie was like, how
Speaker 1: is that staying on? And I go go ask the guy?
Speaker 1: And so she went up to this guy in line
Speaker 1: and goes, how is that staying on you? And he
Speaker 1: was like, oh, it's a magnet and showed her. And
Speaker 1: then she wanted a magnet a buddy. So she got Zero,
Speaker 1: the dog from Nightmare Before Christmas as a shoulder buddy.
Speaker 2: Okay, let me look, I'm still so confused even with
Speaker 2: the Google images older buddies. Zero Okay, cute.
Speaker 1: So it's like an iago, you know, yes, exactly, It
Speaker 1: like sits there like your little your little devil devil
Speaker 1: angel on your shoulder and she loved that, and as
Speaker 1: of all going yeah, and aren't you happy you didn't
Speaker 1: have to carry a giant stitch stuffy yes, yes, And
Speaker 1: we made her buy it last like we went to
Speaker 1: the shop on the way out and we're like, what
Speaker 1: do you want? Here's all the stuff you like, took
Speaker 1: pictures of it's all in the shop. Like our friend's
Speaker 1: daughter got like a frozen house with all these.
Speaker 2: Little frozen figurines, you know, very round. So you know,
Speaker 2: I got really into these lounge Fly backpacks. I've been searching.
Speaker 1: I've been looking EveryWare.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, everywhere.
Speaker 1: I kept seeing them and going, oh my god, this
Speaker 1: is so it's just like crazy because we had just
Speaker 1: been on the website looking at them together, and I
Speaker 1: kept going up, there's a lounge Fly there, like like
Speaker 1: every ten people had one, Like I've had no idea
Speaker 1: had such a hold.
Speaker 2: And there's someone that works at the cellar and I
Speaker 2: know that her and her sister are Disney people and
Speaker 2: they take their kids all the time, so I was like,
Speaker 2: you know about lounge Fly. She goes, there's a wall
Speaker 2: in our house of lounge flies like every she just
Speaker 2: said she she is the person I was hoping to
Speaker 2: meet to truly get more and more information. But there
Speaker 2: was a woman in the front row of one of
Speaker 2: my shows in Tacoma and she had not a lounge
Speaker 2: fly but a red big Disney bag, and so I went, girl,
Speaker 2: you're gonna love lounge fly. She goes, what is it
Speaker 2: I got. It's like a little backpack, but it's in
Speaker 2: the in the shape of stitch, and she goes, I
Speaker 2: love Stitch. I go, yeah, bitch, I knew, I knew.
Speaker 2: I got the vibe.
Speaker 1: I can tell it was like hitch at an airport lounge.
Speaker 1: I can tell you that's one of my gifts. Wait,
Speaker 1: I told you I lost my passport, right, No. So
Speaker 1: I got back from my trip to Saint John, which
Speaker 1: I talked about on this podcast, and was like.
Speaker 2: Where is my fucking passport? Like I know, I brought
Speaker 2: it home.
Speaker 1: I always just like leave it like on my desk
Speaker 1: until I can put it away in my passport area
Speaker 1: where I keep all my family's passports. Can't find it
Speaker 1: for days, I dig up everything, I can't find it.
Speaker 1: So I decide to get a new passport because I'm like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, I like to have what you had
Speaker 1: and your family have me paranoid enough about what's going
Speaker 1: to happen in this country. I need to be able
Speaker 1: to escape whenever I want. And everyone has updated passports.
Speaker 1: I was like, I got to get one. I went
Speaker 1: and I paid all the fucking money and did the
Speaker 1: paperwork to get a new one, and it's it's I mean,
Speaker 1: I won't have it for another six weeks. Today I
Speaker 1: find it hidden in a drawer in the guest room.
Speaker 1: The kids put it there. My kids have hidden it.
Speaker 1: They're not home from school yet. Oh, and this is
Speaker 1: another thing that is related to Disney. So we're on
Speaker 1: our way to Disney and Jared goes, I think you
Speaker 1: took my keys, and I go, I didn't take your keys,
Speaker 1: and he's like, they're not anywhere.
Speaker 2: I cannot find them anywhere.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, that's crazy, Like I thought I saw
Speaker 1: them right on the hook as we were leaving. He's like, Nope,
Speaker 1: can't find them. And like him and Oscar are home,
Speaker 1: like I have my keys. They can't do anything with
Speaker 1: any of the cars. So I ask Rosie. I go, Rosie,
Speaker 1: did you move Dad's keys? And she goes no, like
Speaker 1: and it's a completely believable no, and then Jared sends
Speaker 1: me a picture hours later, halfway through the day that
Speaker 1: they're hit underneath the changing table in their room, and
Speaker 1: I go, guys, what's this all about? Isabelle goes me
Speaker 1: and Rosie hid those there. I didn't say anything because
Speaker 1: you didn't ask me.
Speaker 2: I was like, what.
Speaker 1: So Rosie lye? Rosie lied, and Isabelle withheld information. Anyway,
Speaker 1: these children are hiding shit and they're sneaky. We did
Speaker 1: get the flag from the original flag bearer. Casey O'Brien
Speaker 1: is back in the building. Everybody and see do you
Speaker 1: want to say Hi.
Speaker 4: Hi, thank you so great to be back. I missed you. Guys.
Speaker 2: It's great. You want to just hold your cute daughter.
Speaker 2: We did see her on the zoom. She is perfect.
Speaker 4: Did she liveso expectations?
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, she's really cute. It's wild, but you.
Speaker 4: Know that I do. But I'm obsessed.
Speaker 2: You probably get attention out and about, but outside your family.
Speaker 2: I feel if you take her out, people are reacting.
Speaker 4: People like me more.
Speaker 2: She's like a top ten baby.
Speaker 4: People like me as a person more.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: When I have the baby with.
Speaker 2: Me, Yeah, yeah, yeah, this is gonna be huge for you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and how's your dog handling it?
Speaker 4: You know what, Dolly almost died, So I don't know
Speaker 4: how she's she's I don't know how much longer we're
Speaker 4: gonna have Dolly around sad. Yeah, she's just not doing
Speaker 4: one hundred, I would say.
Speaker 2: But I thought maybe how she's you know, bonding with
Speaker 2: the child.
Speaker 4: But I'm not entirely sure she knows there's a baby
Speaker 4: in this house too.
Speaker 1: No, no, I was thinking because I just showed my
Speaker 1: kid's lady in the tramp the other day and I
Speaker 1: was explaining to my kids. I was like, you know,
Speaker 1: sometimes dogs don't really like it when a baby comes in.
Speaker 1: You got to give them a baby blanket so that
Speaker 1: they're used to the smell when they get home and stuff.
Speaker 4: We found Dolly sitting next to the crib occasionally, so
Speaker 4: I think, you know, maybe she's kind of senses that
Speaker 4: there's a new energy, there's a bond. Yeah, so we'll see.
Speaker 4: She could be one of those old dogs that lives
Speaker 4: forever too. I don't know.
Speaker 2: So, yeah, have you been watching the new season of
Speaker 2: vander Pump just to you know, pump it up from that.
Speaker 4: I'm just I'm really uh, I'm really behind. I saw
Speaker 4: the first couple episodes. I can't be questioned about that
Speaker 4: right now.
Speaker 2: It's no questioning. I was just trying to pivot. I
Speaker 2: was just trying to pivot.
Speaker 1: We needed to pivot from the sad state of Dolly affairs.
Speaker 2: I'll say something. I made my first few friendship bracelets. Ooh,
Speaker 2: partansipation of the tailor. Well, I have a lot of
Speaker 2: beads and I've never made bracelets, so I'm assuming there's
Speaker 2: a learning curve, and there is the first one I
Speaker 2: made hideous, but at least it was fine, but it
Speaker 2: was hideous. Color schemes correct, Yeah, I wanted to do
Speaker 2: the lover color scheme, but it was just too loose
Speaker 2: and not patterned. It looked like shit, but you know
Speaker 2: someone will wear it. And then the next I went
Speaker 2: too high cont because this is I've had a dream
Speaker 2: one in my head for a long time, but the
Speaker 2: word is too long. There's just too much going on
Speaker 2: and I'm not experienced enough. It took me seven tries.
Speaker 2: I had to keep destringing. I got it done, and then
Speaker 2: the next one is maybe for a six month old,
Speaker 2: so I'm hoping I find a baby because it's tiiny.
Speaker 2: And then I started one that says August and it
Speaker 2: looks like a parado. But now it's already too long.
Speaker 2: I might have to just make it a necklace. I mean,
Speaker 2: this is I'm going to eventually do YouTube get some knowledge,
Speaker 2: you know. I just went in loose. I got good
Speaker 2: advice from someone to dab glue on the dot, like
Speaker 2: where you tie it. Oh, and they gave me a
Speaker 2: special glue because I was like gorilla glue and They're like, no,
Speaker 2: there's this other glue.
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna like so to ndhesse the like tie.
Speaker 1: I did not know that there was so much to this.
Speaker 1: It's a whole kit. And I have clasps that I
Speaker 1: don't know how to use. So there's like a lot
Speaker 1: that I don't know and it's just the sizing event.
Speaker 2: Actually, I have some bracelets to give you from Spokane.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, one set well one yeah dun du whatever.
Speaker 2: One says Swifty loves us for you, and I don't
Speaker 2: know if you want it or not if I'll have
Speaker 2: both of them. Oh oh wait, did I talk about
Speaker 2: April Fools on this podcast?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Or know? I don't think so Okay, so soul Cycle
Speaker 2: did a real fun little April Fools where on Instagram
Speaker 2: they posted no more Tailor Swift rides. Our last ones
Speaker 2: are this week and I've been on the road, so
Speaker 2: like I wasn't even gonna be able to go to
Speaker 2: the last ones. I'm like, I can't believe they're doing this.
Speaker 2: Why would they do this? Like I got in the
Speaker 2: comments and then I realized it was April Fools. It
Speaker 2: was a joke. And then when I went to comment again,
Speaker 2: my commenting abilities were limited, and that was.
Speaker 1: That what was your first comment? Like just swears? Like no,
Speaker 1: I was like, what the And then I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: it's a joke.
Speaker 2: But then there was discourse in the comments and some
Speaker 2: people really I think there's too many of the classes
Speaker 2: and like people don't like it, but there are the
Speaker 2: themes and normal classes, and I was just saying, I'm like,
Speaker 2: I go out of my way for the classes that
Speaker 2: I want to go to, like some aren't as convenient,
Speaker 2: but like that's what you do. And people are like,
Speaker 2: why should I have to go to different places? And
Speaker 2: it's like, because that's life, bitch, what are you talking about.
Speaker 2: They're trying to make money, we're we're going, so they're
Speaker 2: not going to stop.
Speaker 1: Having one of their most successful nights. When people stop going,
Speaker 1: I'm sure they'll cut back.
Speaker 2: They're like, and it's also the most optimal times, and
Speaker 2: it's like, yeah, then go to a d like, I
Speaker 2: don't know who you think you are that they should
Speaker 2: do everything around you. I sometimes walk out of my way,
Speaker 2: like I look at like six different ones. I chase
Speaker 2: the class that I want. Today I went to two
Speaker 2: thousands hits. Yeah. Acon, it was awesome, really fun Acon.
Speaker 1: Egg Acon Yeah, oh god, Yeah. And then I went
Speaker 1: to get I went to get a bagel and this
Speaker 1: couple was dancing to Usher was.
Speaker 2: Playing, and I was like, I love it here. Also
Speaker 2: I said, people sent it. I tried to get the
Speaker 2: s VU MTA card. Maybe I still have a shot.
Speaker 2: I'm I'm devastated the town. I did see that.
Speaker 1: I did see that, and I saw that the Empire
Speaker 1: State Building was lit up for joy Our Sexual Assault
Speaker 1: Awareness Month but also the twenty fifth season of SVU,
Speaker 1: Like it.
Speaker 2: Was like both well because I thought it would be
Speaker 2: purple for Sexual Assault Awareness Month, but it was the
Speaker 2: colors of the Joyful Heart Foundation teal or something right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: like Greens, the Blues something yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, something
Speaker 2: Murushka organized green Apple, blue raspberry y.
Speaker 1: Well, bab malicious in my life. Listen, we do have
Speaker 1: to start wildly named episode.
Speaker 2: Oh also, I started Succession, Yes, and I started. I
Speaker 2: mean I am in the middle of season three and
Speaker 2: it's been a week I was on Vocalist, I'd tonsilitis.
Speaker 2: Oh wait, when I.
Speaker 1: Talked to you last year on like episode three, and
Speaker 1: you weren't sure you were going to get into it,
Speaker 1: but clearly I love it.
Speaker 2: We are, Yeah, and I know they're terrible people, but
Speaker 2: I have learned some lessons and I like it. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's like sort of what they say about Seinfeld,
Speaker 1: right too, Like that you're supposed to like kind of
Speaker 1: hate the people. But I should get into it. Everyone
Speaker 1: says it's like so excellent.
Speaker 5: I really should.
Speaker 2: But the acting is so good. There's such funny lines.
Speaker 2: I understand why they want all the awards, but I
Speaker 2: can't wait to watch it again and catch everything without
Speaker 2: being confused over finance terms and takeovers and all that.
Speaker 2: Like it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, The actual succession of it all seems like
Speaker 1: a little bit annoying.
Speaker 2: It's it's just wild and there's one line where they're
Speaker 2: trying to like fuck with the family and she goes,
Speaker 2: don't you know about my family? We don't get embarrassed,
Speaker 2: And I'm like, they don't, like this is wild to watch,
Speaker 2: Like they do not get they will fuck each other.
Speaker 2: And it's just an insight to the wealthy and how
Speaker 2: much control they have over this kind of because I
Speaker 2: do watch the show as fact, and it's just some
Speaker 2: more understanding to these people, like a helicopter ride is
Speaker 2: very casual for them. And I was like, I like
Speaker 2: seeing this and is it based on the Murdochs or
Speaker 2: the Stones or what? Yeah, I mean obviously for legal reasons,
Speaker 2: it's a mix of families, but it's pretty heavy on
Speaker 2: the Murdoch murdoc Yeah. Ye, all right, we got a
Speaker 2: second twenty minute flag in honor of Casey's return and paternity.
Speaker 1: We wanted to keep talking just to get the second
Speaker 1: one time to start. Welcome back Casey and now presenting
Speaker 1: today's episode.
Speaker 2: Sorry we're taking time away from you and your child,
Speaker 2: but here we are. All right.
Speaker 1: So today's episode has kind of.
Speaker 2: A wild name. If you ask me, it is penetration.
Speaker 2: Like I think this is the most shocking title that
Speaker 2: we've had on SVU history, right. Yeah, it's a lot
Speaker 2: for what happens in the episode a sex show for
Speaker 2: an episode to be called penetration is fucked. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So Season twelve, episode eight, we're in the twenty tens. Baby,
Speaker 2: there's a gun. Benson is on a couch sleeping and
Speaker 2: the gun isn't she closer and closer? Benson grabs the
Speaker 2: gun and we see it's just Calvin and he's up
Speaker 2: to no good. If you are suddenly new to this,
Speaker 2: you've never seen sview. You don't know who Calvin is,
Speaker 2: or who we are or what is happening. Detective Olivia
Speaker 2: Benson takes in wayward children when their parents are criminals.
Speaker 1: Yes, this is the first dry run they gave at
Speaker 1: letting Olivia Benson be happy, and then they snatched it away.
Speaker 2: They did not let it happen. No, But basically, this
Speaker 2: is Maria Bellow's son and she runs away after she
Speaker 2: realizes that she is the product of her mom's rape
Speaker 2: and she is too stressed to raise her child and
Speaker 2: she leaves and I think she kills someone. Whatever.
Speaker 1: Can I also just say I'm finding something out right now?
Speaker 1: The actor that Calvin is Charlie Tahan and I just
Speaker 1: looked him up and he's a huge character on Ozark.
Speaker 2: He's literally Wyat Langmore.
Speaker 1: He's the brother of Mark Mitchaka's character who we just
Speaker 1: interviewed on our podcast a few weeks ago. And he's
Speaker 1: still acting and he's booked. He's got a lot of
Speaker 1: shit going on. He was in Gotham Castle Rock Wayward Pines,
Speaker 1: which was a psycho show I watched. I didn't even
Speaker 1: recognize that Calvin was in all of these things.
Speaker 2: Amazing. I love to hear it. And so basically, she's like, hey, babe,
Speaker 2: let's not point guns at people. And he tells her
Speaker 2: to relax, which is bold, and he says that he
Speaker 2: thought it was gonna be funny. She's breathing so heavy
Speaker 2: and then she quickly just switches up and starts squirting
Speaker 2: him with the water gun. And it's a water gun.
Speaker 5: Haha.
Speaker 2: She's a fun mom. She's a fun mom. But it
Speaker 2: is after midnight and he has to go to bed,
Speaker 2: but there's a knock on the door, which is fucked,
Speaker 2: and she like looks in the peep hole and then
Speaker 2: she opens it and it's friend of the pod Marsha
Speaker 2: gay Harden oscar Win her you know, star of film
Speaker 2: and screen Dana Dana lewis FBI agent and she walks
Speaker 2: right in and asks for a bourbon, and yes, Benson
Speaker 2: has some bourbon. It's in the corner cabinet, and so
Speaker 2: Dana reaches for it. Benson's like, damn, hey, longtime, no
Speaker 2: see are you still undercover? She goes funny, you should ask,
Speaker 2: but then she sees Calvin and she's like, and then
Speaker 2: Calvin's like, is this your girlfriend? And Benson says, go
Speaker 2: to bed. This is an FBI agent and she's gonna
Speaker 2: rest your ass. And then they all laugh and he
Speaker 2: finally walks off to bed.
Speaker 1: But how about Calvin just clocking Benson's sort of lesbian
Speaker 1: vibe a little bit.
Speaker 2: He's just like, this is your girlfriend?
Speaker 1: And then Marcia gay Harden's like, when did you get
Speaker 1: a kid? And she goes, well, when his mother abandoned
Speaker 1: him and I'm trying to track down his father.
Speaker 2: Why are you here? That's the more pressing question, babe.
Speaker 2: But Marcia Gay does need a favor. She hands Benson
Speaker 2: a brown paper bag and asks her to test a
Speaker 2: rape kit for her. Benson asks, like, who's this for?
Speaker 2: What's going on? And after Dana takes a sip of whiskey,
Speaker 2: she responds me credits don't don dunt Donald. Benson and
Speaker 2: Stable are on a roof and Kraigan's like, what's with
Speaker 2: the Cloak and Dagger which is also a store in
Speaker 2: my neighborhood. Benson wanted to make sure everything's secret because
Speaker 2: hello FBI, and it's like a favor for a friend.
Speaker 2: She's been undercover for a year. She doesn't want the
Speaker 2: fence to know because if they know she got raped,
Speaker 2: they'll take her out of the field and she doesn't.
Speaker 2: She's like so close to the bus and Stabler's like,
Speaker 2: well they should take her out, Like we don't know
Speaker 2: who attacked her, Like what if the target already knows
Speaker 2: that she's compromised? Whatever, Benson says, Listen, she only needs
Speaker 2: a few more days to close the case. We need
Speaker 2: to trust her, that's all she's asking for. But she
Speaker 2: doesn't know what the case is and Dana won't let
Speaker 2: them in on it. So what do we do now?
Speaker 2: Like we can't get a hold of her, and I
Speaker 2: guess we just have to wait for her to show
Speaker 2: up or a hit to come in like it's pretty complicated,
Speaker 2: but they have to do it for their friend. So
Speaker 2: now they're all meeting in a chapel and Dana's speaking
Speaker 2: in riddles while walking in like a labyrinth painted on
Speaker 2: the floor. So Stabler says he's sorry what happened to her?
Speaker 2: And she says me too, and then is actually pissed
Speaker 2: at Benson that she brought him in at all, and
Speaker 2: Benson's like, bro, that's my partner, Like I have to
Speaker 2: tell him, and she goes, no, you didn't anyway. So
Speaker 2: they keep trying to get clues and digging, and Dana
Speaker 2: reiterates she cannot answer any of the questions, but they
Speaker 2: have to assume it's an anti terror case because they're
Speaker 2: near ground zero at the moment. She's like, I'm on
Speaker 2: three active cases and I have to figure out which
Speaker 2: one of those My cover has been blown.
Speaker 1: And I never asked you to investigate. All I ask
Speaker 1: for is lab results. But it's SVU, you know, these
Speaker 1: people like come on. So they keep trying to convince
Speaker 1: her to help solve the case. She keeps denying it,
Speaker 1: and Benson goes, well, what if it has nothing to
Speaker 1: do with your cases? And it's a random person, and
Speaker 1: they're going to attack more people, and then because of you,
Speaker 1: you're not going to stop other people. And Dana, who
Speaker 1: has not stop moving on the labyrinth for one fucking second,
Speaker 1: plays the guilt card of a fragile vy, like, is
Speaker 1: that how you're gonna speak to me? And Stabler goes,
Speaker 1: really fragile. Every time I'm with you, I actually end
Speaker 1: up in the hospital while you're out there chasing down people. So,
Speaker 1: for those who don't remember, he gets shot, she saves
Speaker 1: his life. Then there's during the Penelope what's her name
Speaker 1: Persephone or Sephone during the Persephone years, there was an
Speaker 1: explosion when they were undercovered together, so he is always
Speaker 1: injured around here. And then the guilt of Stabler being
Speaker 1: shot and exploded does finally break her, and she goes, fine,
Speaker 1: we can't arrive together, but I'll give you the address
Speaker 1: and you can meet me there. Benson and Stabler arrive
Speaker 1: at home that's like a crash pad for her job,
Speaker 1: and they're like, holy shit, this is.
Speaker 2: Nice, and it is. It's colorful floral. Benson picks up
Speaker 2: a frame photo and goes, damn, they spent a lot
Speaker 2: of money on this one. Even the kids look like her,
Speaker 2: and then Dana pops out and says, they are my
Speaker 2: kids and this is my apartment. Okay, rich, rich and
Speaker 2: bad taste. So they ask like, where were the kids
Speaker 2: when you were attacked. They're in DC with their daddy
Speaker 2: and they're all gonna go to Europe after this, and
Speaker 2: like they're gonna go to Europe and she's gonna clear
Speaker 2: this mess up, and Stabler goes, damn, that's like a
Speaker 2: really understanding X and she's like, yes, but we're not
Speaker 2: divorced for married twenty years. Everything is good. Alec is
Speaker 2: my rock and that's that I know. It's like shocking
Speaker 2: for him to think that a man has like children
Speaker 2: and is taking care of them. So that's why he's
Speaker 2: confused and thought they like weren't married. But she's teaching
Speaker 2: him about the future. Stabler walks towards her and goes, well,
Speaker 2: maybe you should go to Europe and meet your family,
Speaker 2: and she's like, I don't know. Don't you want me
Speaker 2: to answer all your little questions or do you want
Speaker 2: me to go to Europe? And she begins to give
Speaker 2: a play by play of the attack. She had just
Speaker 2: gotten home from rolling around in the dirt all day
Speaker 2: and then he yoked her as soon as she walked
Speaker 2: into the door. He was six two two twenty and
Speaker 2: wearing a mask. She elbowed him in the ribs, but
Speaker 2: he had her in a sleeperhold. She was out in
Speaker 2: four seconds, and when she came to, she was laying
Speaker 2: on the bed and he was on top of her,
Speaker 2: raping her. And she's like, fuck, I'm trained, I should
Speaker 2: be able to get out of this kind of situation,
Speaker 2: and Benson reminds her she can't prepare for every situation,
Speaker 2: and she could not move. He injected her with a
Speaker 2: paralytic agent and she couldn't even scream, but she could
Speaker 2: feel everything and it lasted thirty fucking minutes. He left
Speaker 2: very quickly after he finished, and then after the drugs
Speaker 2: ran off, she did her own rape kit and got
Speaker 2: to Benson's house by midnight. And now she has to
Speaker 2: go back to work and they're trying to stop her
Speaker 2: and like how she can't go, and she's like, I
Speaker 2: have to go. You know, these Qurans are not going
Speaker 2: to burn themselves. So she's playing another racist, which is incredible,
Speaker 2: and it's so funny because both Stable and Benson act
Speaker 2: like this too, you know, what I mean, like, they
Speaker 2: never want help, they never want protective detail. They want
Speaker 2: to go solve the case no matter what, even if
Speaker 2: it involves them. So I don't know why they're trying
Speaker 2: to convince her, and they're acting so shocked and appalled
Speaker 2: by her behavior that makes no sense to me. So then,
Speaker 2: being the hypocrites they are, they finally corner her and
Speaker 2: say they will wrap her out to her boss if
Speaker 2: she does not let them help her. She said, fine,
Speaker 2: there's gonna be a crowd blend in there, and if
Speaker 2: you blow my cover, I will send you home crying.
Speaker 2: And her Bob is like, super super cute. I really
Speaker 2: like her hair. Hair. It's a bunch of people protesting
Speaker 2: no mosque here, no mosque here, bullhorns American flags and
Speaker 2: signs about ground zero. So they think that building a
Speaker 2: mosque by ground zero is a disgrace and it's a
Speaker 2: spit in their faces, and Stabler says they got a point,
Speaker 2: and Benson goes, hello, freedom of religion. And then Dana
Speaker 2: turns around in a flannel like flannel and a vest
Speaker 2: in a baseball cap and she screams, el Qaeda is
Speaker 2: laughing at us, and you want to let them build
Speaker 2: their command center right here, and a bullhorn man walks
Speaker 2: down to meet them, and everyone turns to look, and
Speaker 2: Benson says, it's a community center, basketball court, pool. Dania
Speaker 2: Yell's that mosque will be a monument to terrorism. Benson
Speaker 2: hates them. Dana starts to sneak off behind the bullhorn man,
Speaker 2: and then the bullhorn man calls Benson jiha Jane obsessed obsessed.
Speaker 2: Stabler's like she's a misguided man and they start walking
Speaker 2: off pissed that she ditched them. And she's being put
Speaker 2: in a minivan right now by camouflage men. And now
Speaker 2: we're in the squadroom, screens everywhere. Two photos up on
Speaker 2: the screen. David Worthy, he needs botox, sorry between the eyes,
Speaker 2: and then there's a photo of a license plate and
Speaker 2: it just says blue van, like it's a purp. It's
Speaker 2: like the mugshot of the van. It's really funny. And
Speaker 2: he's from Akron, this guy. And basically they like let
Speaker 2: all the authorities and everyone know, like stay troopers, like
Speaker 2: don't apprehend, just notify because she is undercover. We don't
Speaker 2: know who this guy from Akron is, Like, we have
Speaker 2: no idea who's in the van. What's happening? We just
Speaker 2: know she was pulled into it. So then Fan and
Speaker 2: Munch want to know about the case and Cragan's like,
Speaker 2: it's a secret, babes, I can't tell you about the case.
Speaker 2: And Munch gets up screaming what am I? Chop liver?
Speaker 2: How come live?
Speaker 1: And Elle get to work Anti tear and Craigan's like,
Speaker 1: who told you that?
Speaker 2: And It's like, well, it's Munch. She does know everything.
Speaker 2: And basically the reason he knows is because David Worthy
Speaker 2: is on six different watch sites. He's a high ranking
Speaker 2: member of SCB, which is Sovereign Citizens Brigade.
Speaker 1: Not to be confused with UCB the Upright Citizens Brigade.
Speaker 2: Comedy theater. Yeah, they think it's anti Muslim, But Munch is,
Speaker 2: I wonder if I mean the rape situation at UCB perractically,
Speaker 2: like bankrupting them and stuff would be an interesting SVU. Yeah,
Speaker 2: So all of them think that this SCB and all
Speaker 2: of this and this, like they're anti Muslim. But Munch
Speaker 2: is like, no, it's anti American. They don't have driver's
Speaker 2: licenses this group, Their kids don't have birth certificates. They
Speaker 2: hate taxes, traffic laws, everything and one of their members
Speaker 2: actually took out an IRS agent, so they really don't
Speaker 2: want to pay taxes, but they're driving on roads like
Speaker 2: that's the thing with these people, they're just so stupid.
Speaker 2: So Kragan's like call Stabler and warn his ass what
Speaker 2: they're dealing with, and then bam, it cuts to like
Speaker 2: Ohio blue plated van burnt to a crisp like the
Speaker 2: whole van is burnt, and they're like, damn, we shouldn't
Speaker 2: have let her go back in the field. We really
Speaker 2: fucked up. And there's tons of state troopers and cops
Speaker 2: on the scene and Benson goes, we told you to notify,
Speaker 2: don't follow, and the uniform cop goes my call and
Speaker 2: it's like, okay, idiot, now everyone's burnt, Like well you
Speaker 2: talk about like you your call is dumb and you
Speaker 2: should not have a job, Like I don't understand where
Speaker 2: the standards for police are not higher than other jobs,
Speaker 2: like as a nurse, if you make a mistake, you
Speaker 2: will not be a nurse anymore. Yeah, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean. If you are a doctor and there's malpractice
Speaker 2: and there's a suit, like a hospital will not have
Speaker 2: your back unless your doctor death. Yeah, there's just like
Speaker 2: all of these things, and I don't understand how you
Speaker 2: could be like, my cop, you fucked up, yeah, and
Speaker 2: you didn't listen to the chain of command, like fuck idiot.
Speaker 2: But only one body was found, but burnt to a
Speaker 2: crisp and I wish they didn't like fully zoom in
Speaker 2: on him. But they show the the cop like the
Speaker 2: photo of the guy pre burnt, and they're like, was
Speaker 2: this him, and she goes, yes, that is. She's like,
Speaker 2: I saw the explosion in my rear view mirror. And
Speaker 2: Benson's like, what the fuck are you talking about. You
Speaker 2: said you were following them, so how are you behind them?
Speaker 2: You lying bitch, And she's like, listen, I was hanging
Speaker 2: back about one hundred yards and then they lost me
Speaker 2: and they must have pulled like into somewhere, and then
Speaker 2: I lost them, and then like, while I was driving
Speaker 2: another mile, I saw the kaboom. Stabler says, okay, you
Speaker 2: keep saying they how many people were in the van?
Speaker 2: She said she counted six one female, five males, but
Speaker 2: there's no sign of them when she came back. So
Speaker 2: now we're at the FBI headquarters. They're having a conversation
Speaker 2: with a very unhelpful man who's acting like he knows nothing.
Speaker 2: Stabler calls the guy in a van a Crispy Critter again,
Speaker 2: Crispy Critter and jeeha Jane. This is a top tier US.
Speaker 2: They show up before and after photo of him burnt
Speaker 2: and non burnt, and they want to find her and
Speaker 2: they're scared. Her cover is blown. And the driver had
Speaker 2: a bullet hole in his head before he got burnt,
Speaker 2: So like, what's going on? And in Stabler's words, he goes,
Speaker 2: there's a hole in his head before he became BBQ.
Speaker 1: That's funny. He probably said barbecue. I don't knowhy I
Speaker 1: said BBQ.
Speaker 2: I know why. It's because of a Simpsons thing. But anyway,
Speaker 2: so the man's face has not changed. The FBI guy,
Speaker 2: the burntman, his face has definitely changed. The FBI man,
Speaker 2: his face has not changed. He is just stern as fuck.
Speaker 2: He does not care. And Benson's like, we can't reach
Speaker 2: her and she's not at her home. Have you heard
Speaker 2: from her? He responds like not in the last twelve months.
Speaker 2: Music plays detectives look confused. She's that deep undercover. The
Speaker 2: man leans in. Dana left the bureau about a year ago.
Speaker 2: They're stunned as fuck. They walk out. Who the hell
Speaker 2: is she working for? Benson calls her a pain in
Speaker 2: the ass, but also like, good for her. Any of
Speaker 2: the alphabets could have taken her. The dot nsay ATFDOD
Speaker 2: thousands of agencies work encounter terrorism, and Benson goes, yeah,
Speaker 2: and that's not even counting the private sector, Like, who
Speaker 2: knows what she's doing? And how we're gonna find her? Now?
Speaker 2: What everyone's stonewalling us on every detail? You know, she
Speaker 2: spent the day playing with us. What the fuck do
Speaker 2: we do? And they're like, well, the real target must
Speaker 2: have been and at the rally and their conspiracy theory nuts,
Speaker 2: so maybe like we should call in an expert. Done done,
Speaker 2: obviously it's mont right, Yeah, I forgot my own notes.
Speaker 1: But also they have the address of her apartment, like
Speaker 1: they're like, where are we gonna find her?
Speaker 2: It's like, do you know where she lives? So we're
Speaker 2: at the learning arena on thirty fifth Street and Munch
Speaker 2: and Finn are walking into a seminar hosted by Tom
Speaker 2: Marshall of the SCB on how to avoid foreclosure and
Speaker 2: what the government doesn't want you to know. Finn is like, hey,
Speaker 2: we're here to investigate. Let's not drink the kool aid, bro,
Speaker 2: and Munch's like, oh shut up, I'm scared of that.
Speaker 2: But a man is talking at the podium. There's a
Speaker 2: draped American flag and he's talking about you know whatever,
Speaker 2: I don't care, and basically the guys interrupt his speech
Speaker 2: one of my favorite tropes, and he puts his hands
Speaker 2: up like, bro, relax, I'll give you the forms you
Speaker 2: need for freedom, like after this lecture, and nothing like
Speaker 2: a form for freedom. And then he's like there's enough
Speaker 2: for everyone. So he just thinks they're like really excited
Speaker 2: participates of this seminar, but like there's dozens of chairs empty.
Speaker 2: There's only maybe thirteen losers here. They just walked in.
Speaker 2: What makes you think they're a fan of yours? It's
Speaker 2: pretty silly. But they see through him, and they're trying
Speaker 2: to warn the guys in the audience. Not a woman there,
Speaker 2: thank you very much. Basically they're like, don't listen to
Speaker 2: this guy. You know, he's a charlatan. And the Charlatan's
Speaker 2: like they're just government lackeys. But they arrest him for
Speaker 2: fraud and take them away. He says, I don't recognize
Speaker 2: your authority or your laws. And it's like, okay, but
Speaker 2: you are a handcuffser, so it really doesn't matter. And
Speaker 2: then they bring him to the cement room bars and
Speaker 2: show him a picture of David Worthy and he's like,
Speaker 2: oh yeah, ohio chapter, I read his blog. I never
Speaker 2: met him. And they show the burnt photo and the
Speaker 2: dude stares at it hard, and Saber's like, dude, the
Speaker 2: SCB boys are killing each other off right now and
Speaker 2: I don't care how or what, but they have a
Speaker 2: federal agent and we need to find her. And the
Speaker 2: charlatan says he doesn't know anything about that, and Sadler goes, well,
Speaker 2: the Feds know that you do, and they do a
Speaker 2: stare off. Stabler then threatens him, unless you want to
Speaker 2: die in a FEMA death camp, you better start talking
Speaker 2: to me, and the guy turns a little and Stabler
Speaker 2: Warrens don't look at the mirror. So Stabler's like really
Speaker 2: like gripping onto the metal bars and acting casual in
Speaker 2: his you know, physicality, and like, oh, I'm just here
Speaker 2: to help you. And so finally the guy does break.
Speaker 2: He goes, listen, I do know David. He started to
Speaker 2: sound crazy on his blog and said that the time
Speaker 2: for nonviolence is over and SCB is about not being violent.
Speaker 2: So he found a group that was violent, and they're
Speaker 2: called Patriots against Tyranny.
Speaker 1: But I thought that the SCB took out an IRS agent.
Speaker 1: That's pretty violent.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So this is the PATS Patriots against Tyranny, and
Speaker 2: they're a militia group based right here in New York.
Speaker 2: And I do love that all these secret groups have websites,
Speaker 2: Like you are trying to commit full on crimes, but
Speaker 2: thank god there's a url to visit. So they're all
Speaker 2: at the screens again trying to figure everything out. A
Speaker 2: phone rings, fin answers. Basically, a contact got beat on
Speaker 2: the PATS and their compound is in Staten Island. So
Speaker 2: they're approaching the compound in Staten Island. There's tons of
Speaker 2: cops on the scene already, ambulance is rolling, there's bodies everywhere.
Speaker 2: Someone says it's Waco meets Ruby Ridge and then they
Speaker 2: see the dude with no emotions from the FBI office
Speaker 2: on the case and they're pissed. They're like, you looked
Speaker 2: us in our fucking eyes and lined and he's like,
Speaker 2: you never gave me the code. If Dana wanted me
Speaker 2: to share information with you, you'd know it already. And
Speaker 2: now you're just interfering with government investigations. And Benson points
Speaker 2: and notices one of the bodies as a man who
Speaker 2: shoved her in the car, so like, where the fuck
Speaker 2: is Dana? And he says, well, after you came in
Speaker 2: saying the sky was falling, we had to try to
Speaker 2: get her out of there, but their surveillance blew our cover.
Speaker 2: So that's that. And she was embedded when the raid
Speaker 2: went down, and she's in the house, thank god. And
Speaker 2: then they rush into the house but there's dead bodies
Speaker 2: everywhere and there's body bags lined up, and they're like fuck,
Speaker 2: what did we do? And you know there's no survivors.
Speaker 2: They're so sad, but then we do hear Dana's voice,
Speaker 2: thank god, and then she sees them, goes who let
Speaker 2: these jokers in here? And they're like, hell, yes, you're okay,
Speaker 2: and she's like, yeah, no, thanks to you. And then
Speaker 2: she's carrying a heavy box. So I do love that
Speaker 2: she's like FBI but still acting like a normal civilian
Speaker 2: being interrogated by SVU, like will not stop doing an
Speaker 2: errand yes. She asks what part of me ditching you
Speaker 2: at the rally did you not get? I met up
Speaker 2: with a contact I've been working with for six months.
Speaker 2: Everything was under control. Saber goes, everything under control. The
Speaker 2: van got blown up. She turns around with a mean mug.
Speaker 2: That wasn't scheduled. It wouldn't have happened if you didn't
Speaker 2: stick the state trooper on us, and Benson goes, she
Speaker 2: wasn't supposed to follow you, and Dana goes, well, she did,
Speaker 2: and you know now, the PATS plan was to kill
Speaker 2: a cop, and you guys served up a state trooper
Speaker 2: on a silver platter, and then when all of you
Speaker 2: would attend the funeral, they would just blow everybody else up.
Speaker 2: And she's juggling a grenade as she's talking, and then
Speaker 2: she throws it at Stabler, who's so nervous, and she goes,
Speaker 2: relax Nancy the pins in it, And Benson asks how
Speaker 2: Dana stopped them, and she's like, by reminding them that
Speaker 2: all of the Pats were supposed to be there when
Speaker 2: Spark was ignited, and they were a few members short,
Speaker 2: so like they had to go get all the other
Speaker 2: members and everything would have been timed perfect if the
Speaker 2: raid went down how it's supposed to go down, because
Speaker 2: all the big boys were supposed to come out from
Speaker 2: out west tomorrow. I'm confused.
Speaker 1: So there was a huge explosion that took out most
Speaker 1: of the Pats, like in the raid in the house
Speaker 1: just now, Yeah, are all the dead bodies the Pats? Yeah,
Speaker 1: because they had to raid earlier to save her, because
Speaker 1: Benson and Stabler scared the FBI, so they.
Speaker 2: Like, we have to move now. Got it. But it
Speaker 2: would have been better if they did the raid as
Speaker 2: they were supposed to.
Speaker 1: And then they would have gotten all the West Coast people.
Speaker 1: But they're not there yet. So now there's like a
Speaker 1: whole faction of this group that's still up and running. Okay,
Speaker 1: got it. I was like confused watching it. And now
Speaker 1: they're even more angry. Yeah, they're gonna be on more edge.
Speaker 2: They're gonna be less trusting, and they're gonna want to
Speaker 2: like event deaths yeah and FBI. Yeah. And then Benson
Speaker 2: keeps asking questions why did they kill Worthy. She's like, well,
Speaker 2: when they pulled off into the trees, he accidentally hit
Speaker 2: his brights and they thought he was signaling to the
Speaker 2: state troopers.
Speaker 1: So they're a paranoid bunch. So where did they go?
Speaker 1: Question Mark?
Speaker 2: There was a car in place, and it brought them
Speaker 2: straight to the clubhouse, and she says, sorry, I wasn't
Speaker 2: able to check in with mommy and daddy. Dana stares
Speaker 2: at them, pissed as hell. She's like, I had to
Speaker 2: kill three people today that I meant to take in alive.
Speaker 5: Ooh.
Speaker 2: Dramatic music plays as they all stare at each other.
Speaker 2: Dana breaks all eye contact and goes, where are my
Speaker 2: lab reports? And Sailor goes, well, you've been so busy.
Speaker 2: So she's angry, and she goes, please redirect all of
Speaker 2: my evidence to the FBI lab. They'll be handling it
Speaker 2: from here, you know. And we're done. Elevator doors open
Speaker 2: back at the squadroom as Benson and Stabler exit, and
Speaker 2: she says, we're not handing them over the case. We're
Speaker 2: doing it and he's like, let it go live, and
Speaker 2: they go back and forth. She's like, this is our jurisdiction,
Speaker 2: and he's like, Dana won't cooperate with us. Let's like
Speaker 2: let them deal with her. Benson's like, give her a
Speaker 2: couple of days, then we'll go back to her, and
Speaker 2: we heard Uncha's voice. We need to bring Dana back asap.
Speaker 2: Finn and Mounts are standing in front of those screens
Speaker 2: and Stabler scoffs at them and says, that's never gonna happen. Well,
Speaker 2: the scoop is they just caught a case where the
Speaker 2: victim was choked out and injected with a paralyzing agent
Speaker 2: and raped. So sound familiar. So a new victim not good.
Speaker 2: Her name is Jennifer Briggs, twenty seven years old. She
Speaker 2: was attacked in her sohole apartment early in the morning.
Speaker 2: She's not FBI, she's an accountant, and Benson goes, fuck. Wait.
Speaker 1: Also, the victim in last week's episode was Layla Briggs,
Speaker 1: whoa and in the financial world.
Speaker 2: Damn just notice sorry, keep going. So basically she's just
Speaker 2: an accountant and Benson's like, well, let's go talk to her.
Speaker 2: But sadly she was killed, so he's escalating. Benson is sad.
Speaker 2: So now they're back at the FBI offices with the
Speaker 2: stern man who is really really hot and I looked
Speaker 2: up his name. His name is Dion Graham and they're like,
Speaker 2: oh my god, thanks for helping us, Like it keeps
Speaker 2: going to voicemail. He says, yeah, the last thing I
Speaker 2: owe you to is a fucking favor. But tell Craigan
Speaker 2: we're square. So this is a Craigan favor and I
Speaker 2: love it. I love when our little boss Daddy comes
Speaker 2: in with his connects. So Dana is there typing and
Speaker 2: they give her a shit for that, and she's like, well,
Speaker 2: usually my handler type stuff up, but since I've been benched,
Speaker 2: then Dion says, yep, you guys created a mountain of
Speaker 2: paperwork for her, so make it quick. She has a
Speaker 2: ton of typing to do, so they break the news
Speaker 2: to her about Jennifer Briggs and how she is dead,
Speaker 2: and she reacts how I was thinking the whole time
Speaker 2: I'm with her, instead of getting knee deep in my business,
Speaker 2: you could have worked on the lab reports that I
Speaker 2: gave you and she could be alive still, and Stabler
Speaker 2: throws it back at her and says, how about if
Speaker 2: you had cooperated from the beginning, And then the two
Speaker 2: women stare at him like, come on, you know you
Speaker 2: fucked up here, So he hands over the lab report
Speaker 2: and Dana wrestles through the papers. Fuck no DNA, So
Speaker 2: what's going on? So only way to break it is
Speaker 2: to work the pattern, and we can't do that without you.
Speaker 2: So she grabs her coat and they're off. Dana doesn't
Speaker 2: know her like this woman, so they have to branstorm.
Speaker 2: She lived in Soho. She worked in the diamond district.
Speaker 1: That piques, you know, the interest, because Interpol was working
Speaker 1: with them.
Speaker 2: You know, there was a diamond heist job diamond I Kiss.
Speaker 2: You know, diamonds are really the underbelly. Yeah, and she
Speaker 2: was an accountant and maybe she got caught up in
Speaker 2: the diamond jar and Stabler's like, okay, well he broke
Speaker 2: every one of her fingers, one at a time, so
Speaker 2: maybe you know she was doing something with diamonds and
Speaker 2: that was a message. And this is really upsetting to Dana.
Speaker 2: She goes, he was more brutal with her than me,
Speaker 2: so maybe there's a closer connection. And then she remembers
Speaker 2: that after he was done, he looked at her and said,
Speaker 2: you're lucky you didn't do anything to piss me off.
Speaker 2: So we got to find this guy. We go to
Speaker 2: the jeweler company she was an accountant for, and the guy,
Speaker 2: I mean, we're also doing a diamond episode.
Speaker 1: Two weeks in a row, briggs and diamonds. Yeah, this
Speaker 1: is wild.
Speaker 2: So anyway, so they go to the jewelry company she
Speaker 2: was an accountant for, and the guy there is like
Speaker 2: she was a model human being, the best person she'd
Speaker 2: wasn't seeing anyone. She had a broken heart from about
Speaker 2: a year ago, and she spent most of her free
Speaker 2: time volunteering soup kitchens, community gardens, and ding ding ding
Speaker 2: ding ding. She used to write to prisoners and he
Speaker 2: warned her not to, but she liked this program and
Speaker 2: she didn't disclose her home address, and it was a
Speaker 2: program that only reached out to Jewish inmates. So back
Speaker 2: at the sixteenth Precinct, with a list from Project Mitzvah,
Speaker 2: eight different prisoners she had been writing to that were Jewish,
Speaker 2: Dana grabs the list like, I must have a connection
Speaker 2: with one of these guys, Like I must have put
Speaker 2: one of them away. She's looking. Five are still in
Speaker 2: jail and three of them are out. So one is
Speaker 2: five to four, so he's out of the mix immediately.
Speaker 2: The other one's on a ventilator in seventy years old.
Speaker 2: So the next guy is the only one it could be,
Speaker 2: and he is six two two forty four and released
Speaker 2: last week and is a Level three sex offender. And also,
Speaker 2: I'd like to say one of the hottest people I've
Speaker 2: ever seen in my life. He is so attractive. He
Speaker 2: is the sexiest killer rapist that we've ever had. Disa
Speaker 2: great kara, what are your thoughts. He's a handsome man. Yes,
Speaker 2: he's fucking hot. I mean better than Richard Ramier. Well,
Speaker 2: he's also an actor, not a real killer. Of course
Speaker 2: he's going to be a looker. And we find out
Speaker 2: his mo is he did choke out his victims, so
Speaker 2: we do have to get him immediately. But he's not
Speaker 2: in the PATS. He's not an SCB. So like, who
Speaker 2: is this guy? And much is like, listen, I can
Speaker 2: say it. He doesn't look like a Jew, and so
Speaker 2: done done. We go to the Division of Criminal Justice
Speaker 2: Services and a guy with a file and a suit
Speaker 2: is like, yeah, of course he's not a Jew. He's
Speaker 2: actually in the Aryan Brotherhood. And you know, they cataloged
Speaker 2: all his jail tattoos and he is a fucking neo
Speaker 2: Nazi and they're like, okay, well how did he end
Speaker 2: up on a list of Jewish inmates? And this guy
Speaker 2: doesn't know and says to go check with the parole officer,
Speaker 2: but he never visited the parole officer. So they're checking
Speaker 2: in with some dude in an office in a suit,
Speaker 2: and he's the last person that this jew non jew
Speaker 2: has met with, and it was fifteen days before his release,
Speaker 2: and so the cops are really pissed and they're like,
Speaker 2: you're supposed to verify his placement, and he is sassy
Speaker 2: and he responds, I did. His aunt said she'd take
Speaker 2: him in, but then she changed her mind. And this
Speaker 2: happens all the time. Can you imagine how hard it
Speaker 2: is to place a fucking sex offender. So then Munch
Speaker 2: is like, yeah, that's why you need to do your job,
Speaker 2: Like it is hard to place the sex offender, but
Speaker 2: you better Like Kim Kardashian, no one wants to fucking
Speaker 2: work and sets the little guy in the suit off.
Speaker 2: So he stands up for you behind the desk points
Speaker 2: and is like, I did my fucking job. He gave
Speaker 2: me an address, but a felon was living in the building.
Speaker 2: I could not approve the address and I did deny it.
Speaker 2: But done done. We obviously have to check out the address.
Speaker 2: So Benson and Stabler are exiting the building and they're like,
Speaker 2: well that was a bust. And then wildly Marsha gay
Speaker 2: Harden is on a motorcycle waiting for them, and they're like, girl,
Speaker 2: what are you doing here? And they're annoyed. They want
Speaker 2: her to leave them alone so they can do their
Speaker 2: job and not fuck up. But she's like, well, i'm
Speaker 2: here so you don't fuck up the case. But they're like, no,
Speaker 2: you're going to fuck up the case. You're the only witness,
Speaker 2: so you can't help investigate, and like she should know
Speaker 2: that she's a fucking FBI agent. But they're arrogant, you know.
Speaker 2: It's like it's the arrogance of at all. They're all
Speaker 2: like this. They all want to solve it. They all
Speaker 2: want to be there. Yeah, maybe she doesn't want to
Speaker 2: go to course, probably wants to shoot his ass. Anyways,
Speaker 2: But he turns the corner he's walking. Stabler notices him first,
Speaker 2: and he says get out of here now to her,
Speaker 2: but she doesn't, and then they beg her like please
Speaker 2: let us handle it. They start walking towards him. He
Speaker 2: notices them immediately duh. As they walk, Stabler says, please
Speaker 2: don't run. My knees are killing me. The guy definitely
Speaker 2: does start to run. Then Dana fucking like on a motorcycle,
Speaker 2: chases straight at him. They enter a construction site vibe
Speaker 2: Stabler's like, God, this bitch is gonna get us killed,
Speaker 2: like I fucking know it. They enter a room where
Speaker 2: she's pointing a gun at him, and he has a
Speaker 2: nail gun, and I don't know if that's do the
Speaker 2: nails fly? Like how does a nail gun work?
Speaker 1: I mean, I think it would calm out, but I
Speaker 1: don't think it would hurt you.
Speaker 2: From a It's just so funny to have a nail gun.
Speaker 2: It's like, just shoot him, dude, you're already on desk duty.
Speaker 2: What's the worst that's gonna happen. But so he's cornered
Speaker 2: and he's like, arrest her. She's wild. She's like, you're
Speaker 2: scum and it's a fair fight. Let's go, babe, all
Speaker 2: guns up. He slowly puts down the nail gun and
Speaker 2: says uncle, and they keep yelling at her like stand down,
Speaker 2: let us handle it, but she can't and calls them
Speaker 2: a filthy coward. While approaching closer, a gun up tears
Speaker 2: in her eye. She says, make peace with your maker
Speaker 2: any last words, and they're like, no, she shoots uh
Speaker 2: ah ricochet. So the bullet actually hits Eliot Stabler and
Speaker 2: he is injured for the third time. Dealing with Marsha
Speaker 2: gay Harten three episodes, three injuries for Stabler, and she's like,
Speaker 2: what happened? You're an FBI agent, you know it's like
Speaker 2: the beam ricochet. Come on, girl, but like you should
Speaker 2: be better at shooting. You should know if the ricochet happened. Like,
Speaker 2: I just I don't like what they're doing here. So also,
Speaker 2: we expect people to act normal and abnormal circumstance, and
Speaker 2: we know that's a lesson we learned a long time ago.
Speaker 1: We also find out, sadly in an episode that we've
Speaker 1: already covered, that Dana Lewis has a bit of a
Speaker 1: screw loose, you know, like we do find out that
Speaker 1: she's capable of things that we didn't expect. Wow, So
Speaker 1: at this point we've covered three out of her four episodes,
Speaker 1: So that's really cool. Yeah, did we not ask Marcia
Speaker 1: gay Harden about riding the motorcycle?
Speaker 2: I feel like we didn't, and I would really love
Speaker 2: to know.
Speaker 1: Are we sure we didn't? Because it was also like
Speaker 1: our fourth interview. Ever, like, I bet we don't know.
Speaker 1: I'm not positive, but I'm gonna go back and listen.
Speaker 1: I also, I wonder if I asked like that guy
Speaker 1: was hot.
Speaker 2: I know we talked a lot about in that, you know,
Speaker 2: later in that we talked about a lot of stuff
Speaker 2: like crying on the stand and.
Speaker 1: Stuff like that, because she's such a good actress and
Speaker 1: makes good choices.
Speaker 2: So anyways, we're in the hospital. Stabler's shirtless and he
Speaker 2: looks good, but he just got hitting the shoulder, so
Speaker 2: it's not too bad. And she walks and with flowers
Speaker 2: and a stuff barren blue, and she's like, I'm so
Speaker 2: sorry for shooting you. She's like, I fest up to everything.
Speaker 2: They took my gun away. I'm suspended without pay, Like,
Speaker 2: do not worry. He's like, you should be. You are
Speaker 2: out of line. You shot at an unarmed man. She goes, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: that was uncalled for for sure, you know, after he
Speaker 2: raped and tortured me, touche. And then Stabler goes, yeah,
Speaker 2: I heard you also try to crash the interrogation, and
Speaker 2: she did, you know They've been at him for twelve hours.
Speaker 2: It's really frustrating because he's only confessed to raping and
Speaker 2: murdering the other victim. There was DNA left behind on her,
Speaker 2: and so that does make Dana's face fall. She's like,
Speaker 2: what the fuck, Like, why is he denying like mine?
Speaker 2: But not this other victim who's dead, Like you would
Speaker 2: deny the dead victim, right, not the live victim that
Speaker 2: can testify. Yeah, So we're at Cemtent bar rooms and
Speaker 2: he's denied, deny, deny, and Benson's like, bro, you're already
Speaker 2: doing twenty five to life for Jennifer, Like why not confess.
Speaker 2: He's like, that's not my type. But it's not true.
Speaker 2: All of his victims are very different. We look at
Speaker 2: past victims, young, old white Asian mother, doctor student, like
Speaker 2: everyone's kind of different. But he's looking at you know,
Speaker 2: the photo the pictures of his victims on the desk,
Speaker 2: and he goes, this is bs, like I shouldn't even
Speaker 2: had to serve time for any of this because they
Speaker 2: were begging me for it. And he's like, yeah, I
Speaker 2: work the door and they were all over me. She goes,
Speaker 2: they were trying to get past the rope, you idiot,
Speaker 2: Like no one was actually flirting with you. He goes, well,
Speaker 2: they gave me their address, and Benson looks at him,
Speaker 2: disgusted you were carding them. Benson goes, listen, both of
Speaker 2: them rejected you when you asked them out, just like Jennifer.
Speaker 2: She stopped writing him when he asked to send nudes,
Speaker 2: and she didn't want to send nudes. So it's like
Speaker 2: rejection really gets him going, so like she wouldn't send nudes.
Speaker 2: The girls at the door didn't want to fuck him,
Speaker 2: and so he goes and attacks, and then he's like
Speaker 2: she was looking for a husband, like why write to
Speaker 2: me and not send nudes? And Benson lean's closer and goes,
Speaker 2: I don't know, why did you sign up for a
Speaker 2: Jewish pen pal service if you're a neo Nazi? And
Speaker 2: he says he hung out with them for protection and
Speaker 2: that he always had a thing for jew girls and
Speaker 2: their freaks in bed and Craigan in the Strawberry Blondie,
Speaker 2: we don't care about her. So she's complaining about stuff
Speaker 2: and Craigan is like, shut up, shut up, I don't care.
Speaker 2: But it is three hours to raiment, so she needs
Speaker 2: something and then she runs off in a hurry. Now
Speaker 2: Benson gets tagged out for munch and Finn and they're
Speaker 2: going at him and he's again denying, denying, denying, And
Speaker 2: now we have even more evidence though, and it's the
Speaker 2: same paralyzing agent used with Dana as the same with Jennifer.
Speaker 2: And he's like, what, I can't possibly be the only
Speaker 2: creep with that, and munch agoes, listen, you seem dumb.
Speaker 2: You are way too dumb to come up with this
Speaker 2: idea on your own. Who fucking helped you do this
Speaker 2: on the inside? And he responds by going lawyer and
Speaker 2: he's smiling and he's so fucking hot. So then Strawberry
Speaker 2: Blonde Benson and Dana are having a meeting and basically
Speaker 2: this hot rapist wouldn't plead out and we have to
Speaker 2: go to trial, which means that it makes Dana very
Speaker 2: very mad because she's on the FBI. She can't let
Speaker 2: people know this happened to her because on the stand
Speaker 2: she's gonna have to say everything she should have been
Speaker 2: able to handle her. And she's like, you have him
Speaker 2: for the murder, like, leave me out of this, and
Speaker 2: Strawberry Blanc goes, listen, it's an obligation. I have to
Speaker 2: prosecute this case. So she threatens to subpoena danum. Benson
Speaker 2: says it's the only way to ever find peace, and
Speaker 2: Dana just walks out. The next scene, walks straight into
Speaker 2: a cell block in prison, as Olivia chases her like no, no,
Speaker 2: it's a bad idea, and Dana goes to confront him
Speaker 2: and does not care about compromising the case in any capacity.
Speaker 2: Dana says, we need to talk, and he says, why
Speaker 2: so you can shoot me again, and she responds that
Speaker 2: if she wanted him dead, he would already be dead,
Speaker 2: but she wants an explanation why her. He walks over
Speaker 2: and says, dream on, lady, I don't know you. She
Speaker 2: knows it was him, and she wants answers, and she
Speaker 2: knows his voice and smell. He says dream on and
Speaker 2: yells for a guard to get this crazy broad out
Speaker 2: of there, and she just keeps going, why me, why me?
Speaker 2: What was in it for you? Why me? Tell me?
Speaker 2: Why you rape me. Benson pulls her away and towards
Speaker 2: the exit, and he leans on the bars and whispers,
Speaker 2: bye bye, sweet Dreams. I know I will. So we're
Speaker 2: in Core and she is on the stand and Hashihurowitz
Speaker 2: Baby is the defense attorney and he is doing a
Speaker 2: good job, but like, also, Dana did shoot this man
Speaker 2: so and she didn't do a voice lineup, like she
Speaker 2: didn't see him. It's not looking great. She broke a
Speaker 2: lot of rules. She knows it, and I don't know
Speaker 2: if Strawberry Blonde is going to be able to work
Speaker 2: like out of this. I don't trust her. And then
Speaker 2: Hashi accuses Dana of doing all of this for attention
Speaker 2: and how there isn't really any evidence at all that
Speaker 2: she was raped except her word, and she gives him
Speaker 2: a chilling and evil stare, like you fuck or you're lucky,
Speaker 2: I'm in a witness box, and he says, your word
Speaker 2: isn't even worth much anyways, and a loud, powerful objection
Speaker 2: that gets withdrawn immediately, and he goes and sits down
Speaker 2: all proud and scum like. And then she asks to redirect,
Speaker 2: so the judge allows it, and she asks Dana, like,
Speaker 2: on the evening of the rape, when you enter the apartment,
Speaker 2: what the first sound you remember hearing? She said, an
Speaker 2: oof for elbowing him in the ribs and he was
Speaker 2: choking her during it. Did he ever say anything? And
Speaker 2: she says, oh, yeah, he was a talker, she says,
Speaker 2: when on the bed, he was chattering on like a
Speaker 2: bunch of sex stuff, and they pressed her to talk,
Speaker 2: and she doesn't want to, and so she takes a
Speaker 2: deep breath, licks her lips, looks off and then down
Speaker 2: and then straightforward, and then finally answers. She's like, he
Speaker 2: was unbuttoning my blouse. He commented on her bra you know,
Speaker 2: he called her a dirty little slut. When he ripped
Speaker 2: the panties off, he told her like he knew she
Speaker 2: couldn't move, but he did hope that she was awake
Speaker 2: for it. He slapped her, he bit her, you know,
Speaker 2: she heard him on zip his pants. There's just like
Speaker 2: a lot of like slow, painful details going through and
Speaker 2: as she's speaking very slow and pained, it takes a
Speaker 2: while to get things out the camera pants to the rapist.
Speaker 2: And they need to not cast such hot men as criminals.
Speaker 2: It's like way too much. And by the way, his
Speaker 2: name is Jeremy Davidson, and his IMDb photo he is
Speaker 2: in a turtleneck and looks friendly. So he's a working
Speaker 2: actor and I think he should be more busy. But anyways,
Speaker 2: he's enjoying watching her have a hard time on the
Speaker 2: stand and hearing everything that he did to her, and
Speaker 2: she continues, he pulled my jaw open, I couldn't breathe.
Speaker 2: He said that she had a velvet throat. He put
Speaker 2: his fingers inside of her. And as she's talking, like
Speaker 2: a stream goes down her face in tears, and she
Speaker 2: looks down, closes her eyes, says that when I felt
Speaker 2: his body and belly on me, and like again, tears
Speaker 2: are now streaming down her face. She's clearly an Oscar winner.
Speaker 2: So then she says that he said to her, you
Speaker 2: sure are a star. And then the shot goes on
Speaker 2: to Benson and she's pained hearing her friend's testimony, but
Speaker 2: then an aha moment occurs and she looks up with
Speaker 2: a determined look on her face. Back to Danas, she says,
Speaker 2: I just wanted to die. She sniffles. The judge is
Speaker 2: even so upset and moved by this testimony. She shifts
Speaker 2: in her seat and discomfort before calling a ten minute recess.
Speaker 2: Dana runs off the stand, giving the rapist a dirty look,
Speaker 2: and then Benson grabs her and says, he called you star,
Speaker 2: and then she realizes what this means too, So now
Speaker 2: we're back in the squad room and if you know,
Speaker 2: you know, and if you don't, Star was her undercover
Speaker 2: alias name. And in the first episode she was in
Speaker 2: Raw where she pretended to be this neo Nazi leader's girlfriend.
Speaker 2: And I love this twist. It shocks me every time.
Speaker 2: One of the best SVW moments of all time. Like
Speaker 2: I am obsessed with this episode, this moment everything. So
Speaker 2: we're back at the squadroom and we have photos up
Speaker 2: of the big Nazi Brian Ackerman, and basically, you know,
Speaker 2: Star not only was like undercover Nazi tricking him, she
Speaker 2: did shoot his son dead in court, but he deserved
Speaker 2: to get killed, you know, he brought a gun into
Speaker 2: the courtroom. He was shooting people. There was another killer,
Speaker 2: like the judge got murdered, people got shot on the stand.
Speaker 2: Someone screamed Race Trader and then the little guy was
Speaker 2: gonna kill Stabler and so Star aka Dana aka Marsha
Speaker 2: gay Harden Pepoud and killed the teenage son. So I
Speaker 2: hope I have described that well, yes, I mean Raw
Speaker 2: is like a top three episode, like it is my favorite,
Speaker 2: yeah yeah yeah.
Speaker 1: And Munch gets shot in the ass. Yeah, and he
Speaker 1: gets like a fig or date milkshake. It's just and
Speaker 1: that the crime I mean, sadly is in Skoche, my hometown.
Speaker 1: It's that episode of SVU is very meaningful. But for
Speaker 1: us it's very meaningful because like being able to have
Speaker 1: Marcia gay Harden on our podcast really like yeah, meant
Speaker 1: a lot to us.
Speaker 2: And it's just it's all amazing. But yeah, So Brian Ackerman,
Speaker 2: the main NAZI, only knows her as Star. He doesn't
Speaker 2: know her fucking real name or anything about the FBI,
Speaker 2: and Dana is like, damn, I should have put it
Speaker 2: together myself. Fuck but she hasn't used that alias in
Speaker 2: over four years, but it is the only name he
Speaker 2: would know where as and he's doing life in Attica
Speaker 2: where she put his fucking ass. So we go to
Speaker 2: Attica and there's a big, old nice fan in the
Speaker 2: cement room bars, which is wild in Attica, the core
Speaker 2: to the blades, like the heaviness of a fan. What
Speaker 2: are we talking about? Which reminds me I do want
Speaker 2: to go off topic for a second. So you know,
Speaker 2: after like my new Travis Kelsey thing and New Heights podcast,
Speaker 2: a lot of my Explore page just sports now and
Speaker 2: I'm really into Edelman this like sexy former football player
Speaker 2: from the Patriots, right, yes, but like such a funny
Speaker 2: thing came into my feed. You know the MMA Irish
Speaker 2: guy McGregor, So he's kind of wild. He gets arrested,
Speaker 2: like you know, I think he's kind of like a whatever,
Speaker 2: Ireland's version of White trashes who's made it, and he's
Speaker 2: very good or maybe bad. I don't know about MMA
Speaker 2: and any capacity. But he was going to fight this
Speaker 2: other guy. So I think it was Edelman's podcast, and
Speaker 2: this guy Dana White, he's the head UFC guy, he's
Speaker 2: the commissioner. So there I this clip where basically one
Speaker 2: of Connor McGregor's friends was in Vegas and one of
Speaker 2: the guys that Connor was supposed to fight slapped him.
Speaker 2: So the friend called Connor and Ireland told him what happened.
Speaker 2: This motherfucker grabbed all his fucking thug friends. They got
Speaker 2: on a private jet. He got a private jet from Ireland,
Speaker 2: flew to Vegas and they just attacked the bus where
Speaker 2: all of them were inside. And you see him picking
Speaker 2: up a dolly, like a metal fucking giant dolly with wheels,
Speaker 2: going break the windows and it's like forty irishmen getting
Speaker 2: off of a jet. I'm exaggerating, like twenty like twenty
Speaker 2: irishmen just running from a jet, running down into the
Speaker 2: garage of like the MGM where the tour buses with
Speaker 2: these fighters. And this guy picks up a dolly with
Speaker 2: one hand like it's like it's a cup of coffee,
Speaker 2: throws it at the bus. They're breaking the windows trying
Speaker 2: to fight. And then you know the UFC they always
Speaker 2: like meet to like get weight in front of everyone,
Speaker 2: and he's like, you fucking saw me in the bus.
Speaker 2: Why didn't you come out, motherfucker? And they're fighting, but
Speaker 2: then he lost the fight to him, like the real
Speaker 2: fight in the ring. But Edelman was just saying how
Speaker 2: tough it is for like a commissioner, Like he had
Speaker 2: to put his commissioner back, like on he had to
Speaker 2: do work. Connor got arrested, Yeah, doing all this to
Speaker 2: the bus. But like what a great friend. Can you imagine?
Speaker 2: You text me going someone was mean to me. I
Speaker 2: get a jet, I get thirteen of my thug friends
Speaker 2: and we fly and I start trying to beat the
Speaker 2: shit out of your enemy.
Speaker 1: I don't really want you to do that for me,
Speaker 1: but thank you I don't have the strength to do it.
Speaker 2: But then also it's like the number one pay per
Speaker 2: view of all time, Like all of this obviously built
Speaker 2: so much.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it feels like I'm sure it's all real, but
Speaker 1: it's also great free pr you know, I.
Speaker 2: Mean, he fully got arrested, but I think he's nuts.
Speaker 2: Like I think it's like you're poor and then you
Speaker 2: make it and then you kind of act wild, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Also, getting pummeled your brain is like not doing great.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's so gross. During the press conference, both
Speaker 2: their ears are just disgusting.
Speaker 1: I can't watch UFC. It's like two, no, I don't either,
Speaker 1: you're violent.
Speaker 2: No, But I'm also it's like cut together because it's
Speaker 2: on YouTube shorts, so it's like him and his suit
Speaker 2: on a probably a different time walking to a jet,
Speaker 2: but it's him in like a well fitted, tight suit,
Speaker 2: like fucking walk into the jet. I just loved all
Speaker 2: these Irish guys, you know. I found it on Saint
Speaker 2: Patrick's like around Saint Patti's stace. I was like in
Speaker 2: the mix of it all. But also, do you know
Speaker 2: the Jake Paul guy, you know Logan Paul Jake, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: so he's become like this fighter. He's fighting Mike Tyson
Speaker 2: this summer. Wow, and Mike Tyson better win. But he
Speaker 2: is sixty. Yeah, I mean, if he needs money, it's fine.
Speaker 2: But like I mean, Mike Tyson has so many issues
Speaker 2: in so many cars. It's not like he's a hero
Speaker 2: of mine in any capacity. But I just think it
Speaker 2: would be really embarrassing for him to lose two a
Speaker 2: guy who's only been boxing and fighting for four years.
Speaker 1: But also you're sixty, Broah, I don't know how that's
Speaker 1: gonna go down.
Speaker 2: I went on a deep Paul dive too, because Jake
Speaker 2: Paul is he's dating a speed skater, like Nordic's speed skater,
Speaker 2: a six time world champion. So I obviously looked at
Speaker 2: every post she's ever made, like she's like a sexy
Speaker 2: blonde speed skating bombshell. But I'm not a fan of
Speaker 2: these brothers. I don't know, I don't care, but I
Speaker 2: just I think it's because my dad was a boxer
Speaker 2: and as a kid I watched it with like Mike
Speaker 2: Tyson was a big figure in her home. I would say, yeah,
Speaker 2: and just culturally, you know, the pigeons, the face even
Speaker 2: out you know he's a SVU alam as well, and.
Speaker 1: But he's a rapist, yeah, and a's domestic violence person.
Speaker 2: But I don't know. It's just like he'd better be
Speaker 2: making a ton of money because I just don't know
Speaker 2: why you would like risk your boxing legacy. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 2: on losing to an amateur who works hard. But I
Speaker 2: don't know, I don't know. Yeah, I'm interested at that
Speaker 2: end of the day, I'm interested, and that's what they're
Speaker 2: trying to do. The only thing that spun me into
Speaker 2: that sidetrack was because of the big as fan. I
Speaker 2: just didn't like that the fan was in the cement
Speaker 2: room bars that is, you know, they can't even have forks,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. You can't even have a
Speaker 2: Bobby pin in there, so like, why would a giant
Speaker 2: fan with a cord be in there? But whatever, Brian Ackerman,
Speaker 2: he's sitting in his prison outfits. Smug as fuck. Longtime
Speaker 2: no see, Dana says, with her arms crossed as Benson
Speaker 2: and Stabler stand behind her like a girl singing like
Speaker 2: group position. She asks, how's prison treating you? And he
Speaker 2: says it's given him a whole new population to educate,
Speaker 2: and that his Nazi community is stronger than ever facts honestly,
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four, Brian Ackerman, you have succeeded. And then
Speaker 2: Stabler goes, really, we have a black president now, and
Speaker 2: Brian's like, yep, heard he was a Muslim, and Dana
Speaker 2: still arms crossed, walks closer and asks how much he
Speaker 2: paid that dude to track her down and rape her,
Speaker 2: and he goes, ah, it was a bargain. Then asks
Speaker 2: if she enjoyed herself, and Benson's like, oh, you're confessing.
Speaker 2: He's like, yeah, I'm already doing life. Like what else
Speaker 2: is there? And he's still acting like smug smarmye, and
Speaker 2: he goes, I mean this hardly makes this even for
Speaker 2: you killing my son Kyle. But it's a start, I guess,
Speaker 2: And then Stabler jumps in to answer the question earlier
Speaker 2: what else can they do to him? He's serving life,
Speaker 2: So he goes, no more band of losers to talk to,
Speaker 2: no more privileges, enjoy your lifetime spent in solitary. And
Speaker 2: I know we're morally against solitary, but it doesn't that
Speaker 2: what we have to do to this guy. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: mean he shouldn't be around other people, yeah, or he
Speaker 2: should just be around non white people like they have
Speaker 2: to put like they should put him only with non whites.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he has to just shut his fucking little mouth. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but I don't think they can split the jail like that.
Speaker 1: But he smiles andans closer onto the table to Dana
Speaker 1: and smugly says, Hey, do you know what's gonna get
Speaker 1: me through? Star replaying everything Coleman did to you. She responds,
Speaker 1: names Dana, and I'm gonna get past this. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: go home to my loving husband, and I'm gonna watch
Speaker 1: my kids grow up. Unlike you, I'm going to have
Speaker 1: a life. They stare at each other, his hands clasped
Speaker 1: on the table, and he realizes, Oh, I guess my
Speaker 1: life is gonna get worse.
Speaker 2: She walks off, head held high. And that is Dick
Speaker 2: Wolf Baby. Ooh, a wild one.
Speaker 1: We got an FBI agent on a motorcycle avenging her
Speaker 1: own rape.
Speaker 2: I mean it's a lot, okay.
Speaker 1: So obviously we check a lot of sources to figure
Speaker 1: out where episodes came from, but sometimes we check the
Speaker 1: SVU fandom wiki that has a comprehensive list of a
Speaker 1: lot of rip from the headlines episodes, and this one
Speaker 1: says partially rip from the nineteen ninety one crime thriller
Speaker 1: Point Break.
Speaker 2: What what what?
Speaker 1: I have no idea what this has to do with
Speaker 1: Point Break at all, so I did not go ahead
Speaker 1: and list that.
Speaker 2: There's a couple of things.
Speaker 1: The first thing that this is based off of is
Speaker 1: the Park fifty one project, which was very controversial, and
Speaker 1: like the protest that Dana brings the detectives to, is
Speaker 1: based on the actual controversy surrounding a building in Lower
Speaker 1: Manhattan that was originally called Cordoba House but now is
Speaker 1: known as Park fifty one, and it was intended to
Speaker 1: be a thirteen story Islamic community center and mosque that
Speaker 1: was close by to ground zero. It was going to
Speaker 1: have an auditorium, theater, performing arts center, fitness center, swimming pool,
Speaker 1: basketball court, childcare area, bookstore, culinary school, art studio, food court,
Speaker 1: and a memorial to the victims of the September eleventh attacks.
Speaker 1: It was modeled after the JCC on the Upper West Side,
Speaker 1: which was very close to where I lived and I
Speaker 1: used to pass it all the time. It was also
Speaker 1: designed to hold a prayer space for one to two
Speaker 1: thousand people, but its proposed location was two blocks from
Speaker 1: ground zero the World Trade Center. So around the time
Speaker 1: of this episode, twenty ten, this controversy is really raging
Speaker 1: around the country. It was kicked off by conservative bloggers,
Speaker 1: of course, Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer. I think the
Speaker 1: Charlotteville guy was Richard Spencer. So Spencers are all over
Speaker 1: the racism world, I guess, and they are the founders
Speaker 1: of a group called Stop Islamisation of America. They're the
Speaker 1: one that started calling it the ground zero Mosque, despite
Speaker 1: the fact that it was not at ground zero, nor
Speaker 1: was it meant to primarily be a mosque, like it
Speaker 1: was going to have a prayer area.
Speaker 2: But it was not a mosque.
Speaker 1: It was a community center, exactly what Benson is saying
Speaker 1: in the episode. But it was you know, it was
Speaker 1: six hundred feet from ground zero, it's not the exact
Speaker 1: same spot. And this became a huge issue because it
Speaker 1: was the twenty ten mid terms, and you know, people
Speaker 1: were protesting the building saying it would be quote a
Speaker 1: victory marker for Islamic extremists, which is sort of what
Speaker 1: Dana is saying in the episode, like we're just going
Speaker 1: to put the headquarters up here in this and KTA
Speaker 1: thinks they won, and it's like, that's not what this is.
Speaker 1: And what's funny is that the majority of Americans opposed
Speaker 1: it being built, but the majority of Manhattanites were fine
Speaker 1: with it being built. Because when you pull America, it's like,
Speaker 1: you don't even live in Manhattan. You don't understand what
Speaker 1: kind of city like New York is.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm always talking about that. They're always like, Ala
Speaker 2: New York. And it's like, then let us rot. Yeah,
Speaker 2: if you hate us and us dumb liberals in our cities,
Speaker 2: I don't get why you won't just let us fucking
Speaker 2: fail that like get away from us.
Speaker 1: That why is this such a why do you care
Speaker 1: what we're doing? I know, I know, growing our food
Speaker 1: and stay out of our lives.
Speaker 2: Like probably most of these people wouldn't even come to.
Speaker 1: New York if it wasn't to protest this thing being built,
Speaker 1: which they thought was like an affront.
Speaker 2: To their patriotic way of life.
Speaker 1: So a lot of families of the victims of nine
Speaker 1: to eleven spoke up about it, and they, like a
Speaker 1: lot of them, were like, it doesn't even really have
Speaker 1: to do with a political stance. They just thought it
Speaker 1: was insensitive to build it six hundred feet from where
Speaker 1: their loved ones peraged, because they were like, you know,
Speaker 1: a lot of them the nine to eleven attackers said
Speaker 1: that they did this in the name of Islam, and
Speaker 1: then you're going to put up an Islamic building, So
Speaker 1: they thought it was disrespectful. But eventually it was approved
Speaker 1: to be built. In late September of twenty eleven, a
Speaker 1: temporary Islamic center opened up at the Park fifty one location.
Speaker 1: In twenty fourteen, the plan pivoted to make it a
Speaker 1: three story museum and per space plus luxury condos. Twenty fifteen,
Speaker 1: it's going to be a seventy story luxury condo building.
Speaker 1: Twenty sixteen, it's set to be a forty three story
Speaker 1: condo building with an adjacent Islamic Cultural museum and the condos, which.
Speaker 2: Were called forty five Park Places.
Speaker 1: Started construction in twenty seventeen and apparently were almost done
Speaker 1: in twenty nineteen. I think they're done, and then the
Speaker 1: construction of the Islamic Cultural Space had not begun as
Speaker 1: of twenty twenty four and when you go to the
Speaker 1: Park fifty one website, there is info about prayers, but
Speaker 1: they seem to be taking place at a different location
Speaker 1: in Lower Manhattan. And then as of December, the New
Speaker 1: York Post was reporting that the Park fifty one building
Speaker 1: was facing foreclosure because of like a debt that hadn't
Speaker 1: been paid or something. So it was a dark time
Speaker 1: I think where everybody was acting like Islam is equivalent
Speaker 1: to the terrorists who did nine to eleven, which it
Speaker 1: is not. So that's what that was based on. And
Speaker 1: then the rest of this case was based on the
Speaker 1: case of Matthew Hale involving Judge Joan Lefgo which if
Speaker 1: you've been listening to us since the beginning, Lisa did
Speaker 1: cover this, amongst other crimes in.
Speaker 2: The episode our third episode ever, when we covered raw.
Speaker 1: So I'm just going to do a brief refresher because
Speaker 1: it's connected to this episode and it was so long ago,
Speaker 1: and maybe some of you have joined us and didn't
Speaker 1: start from the beginning. So Matthew Hale was a white
Speaker 1: supremacist leader in Illinois who ran a hate group called
Speaker 1: the World Church of the Creator WCTC, and Judge Joan
Speaker 1: Lefkow presided over a trademark infringement case against his group
Speaker 1: in two thousand. The year two thousand, so another a
Speaker 1: religious group had like trademark that name, and Matthew Hale's
Speaker 1: group had never opposed the te trademarking, therefore they kind
Speaker 1: of really didn't have any rights to it. She ultimately
Speaker 1: ruled against him and ordered him to stop using any
Speaker 1: Church of the Creator name. He tried to fight it,
Speaker 1: and in the aftermath of the ruling, Judge Lefgow was
Speaker 1: docks to her address and pictures of her family were
Speaker 1: posted on Stormfront, which is a neo Nazi website that
Speaker 1: I did visit today to just see if it was
Speaker 1: still up, and I hope that never gets brought up
Speaker 1: in like my search history for anything. But it is
Speaker 1: still up and is like about you know, white supremacy.
Speaker 1: And Anthony Evola, who was Hale's security chief turned FBI informant,
Speaker 1: recorded him talking about killing the judge. So I think
Speaker 1: the connectioneer is like somebody doing something to somebody, but
Speaker 1: it ends up being a sex crime in this case
Speaker 1: not just a murder. But on January eighth, two thousand
Speaker 1: and three, Hale is arrested on charges of plotting to
Speaker 1: murder Judge Lefgow and it went to trial in April
Speaker 1: of two thousand and four, during which the FBI informant
Speaker 1: also Evola, got death threats as well. So you know,
Speaker 1: the Nazis were very upset that Hale was being tried
Speaker 1: for his crimes. So before he was convicted, Hale, who
Speaker 1: at the time was thirty three, spent two hours defending
Speaker 1: himself to US District Judge James Moody. He was babbling
Speaker 1: on about Thomas Jefferson, calling the FBI the Gestapo, and
Speaker 1: he even quoted the Star Spangled Banner, and he would apparently,
Speaker 1: according to the La Times, he would quote mock prosecutors
Speaker 1: and glower at FBI officials nearby. Even though this guy
Speaker 1: is surrounded by US marshals, he's got the nerve to
Speaker 1: be like shooting dirty looks around the courtroom, and he's
Speaker 1: saying stuff like I shouldn't be serving time for this,
Speaker 1: like you guys are liars, Like this is not I
Speaker 1: didn't do anything. The judge doesn't buy it, and on
Speaker 1: April seventh, two thousand and five, he was sentenced to
Speaker 1: forty years for his plot.
Speaker 2: To kill the judge.
Speaker 1: Meanwhile, just five weeks earlier from the sentencing, judge Lefgal's
Speaker 1: husband and mother were murdered in the judge's home on
Speaker 1: the North side of Chicago. The judge judge came home
Speaker 1: to find her husband, Michael Francis Lefcou, aged sixty four,
Speaker 1: and her mother, Donna Grace Glenn Humphrey, eighty nine, in
Speaker 1: the basement, both shot multiple times. There was evidence of
Speaker 1: a break in. There were twenty two caliber bullet casings
Speaker 1: found at the scene. They also got a fingerprint, a
Speaker 1: bloody footprint, a soda can, and a cigarette butt in
Speaker 1: the sink. So this guy was Richard ramirezing about basically
Speaker 1: just like leaving so much evidence, and Hale was initially
Speaker 1: a suspect. They thought he might have orchestrated this from prison,
Speaker 1: and that is where SVU went with that episode that
Speaker 1: Hale is organizing this like revenge campaign on a judge,
Speaker 1: which obviously they moved because they could get Marshall Gay
Speaker 1: Harden to an FBI agent in this episode. But on
Speaker 1: March ninth, about ten or twelve days after the murder
Speaker 1: of these family members of this judge, in West Allis, Wisconsin,
Speaker 1: local police stopped a van for a routine traffic stop
Speaker 1: and as the police officer approached the van, the driver
Speaker 1: named bart Allen Ross, age fifty seven, shot and took
Speaker 1: his own life, and later a sumer side note was
Speaker 1: found confessing to the murders of Lefsko's husband and mother.
Speaker 1: So Hale was cleared of that, but he's still currently
Speaker 1: in jail. He's not supposed to get out until like
Speaker 1: twenty thirty six, and he'll be like sixty three, but
Speaker 1: hopefully he.
Speaker 2: Doesn't get out.
Speaker 1: But this guy Ross, bart Alan Ross had also sent
Speaker 1: a handwritten letter to a local Chicago TV station describing
Speaker 1: breaking into the Left Go home and his plan to
Speaker 1: kill the judge. His DNA was matched to the cigarette
Speaker 1: butt that was found in the sink, and his deal
Speaker 1: is basically Lefko had dismissed a case that he had
Speaker 1: been suing for medical malpractice. This man Ross had been
Speaker 1: a financially stable worker with a home, and then he
Speaker 1: contracted a rare mouth cancer. He had to go get
Speaker 1: multiple surgeries and treatments which did get rid of the cancer,
Speaker 1: but he was left disfigured and in constant pain and
Speaker 1: financially in debt, and he was living in his van.
Speaker 1: So he killed the judge because she threw out his
Speaker 1: malpractice case, and it's a really sad story of desperation
Speaker 1: in our broken medical system, but it is not an
Speaker 1: excuse to murder people. So that's what ended up happening
Speaker 1: with that. It was not orchestrated by Hale, but there
Speaker 1: is obviously a connection that we've covered before that Matthew
Speaker 1: Hale seems like a Brian Ackerman copy, so that's where
Speaker 1: they based him. And yeah, that's just a little refresher
Speaker 1: on that, and if you are interested, go back and
Speaker 1: listen to season three, Lisa goes more in depth into
Speaker 1: him and his organization and other murders that happened as
Speaker 1: a result of these organizations. But also you can listen
Speaker 1: to our interview with Marcia gay Harden, which was pretty fun.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, because of American history X, you feel
Speaker 2: like maybe a Nazi can learn a lesson in prison,
Speaker 2: But I think it's just the Nazis congregate and they
Speaker 2: become bigger Nazis.
Speaker 1: And radicalized people. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2: But also I feel bad that this guy's case got
Speaker 2: dismissed with the medical stuff and then a mom and
Speaker 2: a husband being just demolished in a day. Really a
Speaker 2: sad clusterfuck of not good things.
Speaker 1: Yes, And you know, maybe this man would have been
Speaker 1: able to find the judges home if Hale and his
Speaker 1: Nazis hadn't doxed her. You know, like he may not
Speaker 1: have been able to actually locate her, but her shit
Speaker 1: was all over the internet. You know, this judge, this
Speaker 1: poor judge. I think she's still working, but she she
Speaker 1: testified for Congress about like the protection that judges need sometimes,
Speaker 1: because I mean, this isn't the first case we've talked
Speaker 1: about a judge getting having attempt on their life. So
Speaker 1: people definitely see judges as the scapegoats for their pain
Speaker 1: and suffering when they get sent to jail.
Speaker 2: But then again, we also.
Speaker 1: Talked about those awful judges a few weeks ago with
Speaker 1: Crush who sent kids to jail for no fucking reason. So, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, nobody's perfect, but you know who's perfect.
Speaker 2: Our guest.
Speaker 1: We love talking to him, and stay tuned because it's
Speaker 1: coming right up. Okay, today's guest has an insanely impressive
Speaker 1: acting resume. He's in two of the movies that were
Speaker 1: recently nominated for Oscars, American Fiction and Killers of the
Speaker 1: Flower Moon, which is just one of the five Martin
Speaker 1: Scorsese films he's been in. He's also been in five
Speaker 1: episodes of SVU, and two of them as the terrifying
Speaker 1: Brian Ackerman.
Speaker 2: Please enjoy our chat with J. C. Mackenzie. Oh my god, Hello, Hello,
Speaker 2: my gosh. We are so excited to talk to you today.
Speaker 1: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: I don't understand. I know we're going to talk about penetration,
Speaker 2: but your episode raw is top five favorites, if not
Speaker 2: top three for us. Really one of the first we
Speaker 2: covered on the podcast, when Marsha gay harden on, you
Speaker 2: are so evil and good as the head Nazi.
Speaker 5: It's weird as the head Nazi that looked like I
Speaker 5: couldn't control a boy scout troop, very very frighteningly young. Yes,
Speaker 5: my wife was saying you could do it now you
Speaker 5: look like a Nazi, but.
Speaker 2: You'd barely grown into your Nazi look.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I haven't been told before it.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Brian Ackerman. So good. I mean, when you
Speaker 2: walk into the precinct and you're just like Hillary Clinton
Speaker 2: line do they even hire white? I mean, still relevant today? Amazing.
Speaker 5: You know, it's funny. I think we did that about
Speaker 5: seventeen times. And my coverage was of course the last
Speaker 5: and so Marcia Gay, who couldn't be more nicer, so nice,
Speaker 5: wee kind, energetic, supportive, empathetic, you know, she said, you know,
Speaker 5: during my coverage, you've lost a bit of it. So
Speaker 5: we had to go back and to capture, you know,
Speaker 5: the spontaneity of what we had initially. But yeah, that
Speaker 5: took forever. I always get so nervous too. I'm usually
Speaker 5: on klonipin just to settle me down, you know, so
Speaker 5: I look a little bit like I'm on narcotics most
Speaker 5: of the time while I act.
Speaker 2: That's so funny, which is true.
Speaker 5: I'm slightly stoned.
Speaker 1: Perfect perfect, No, that's so funny what you were saying about, well,
Speaker 1: you're Nazi looking too young or whatever. Because I don't
Speaker 1: know if you know this, but on your IMDb it
Speaker 1: says that your trademark is quote often plays characters who
Speaker 1: are smarmy, corrupt, or unsympathetic.
Speaker 5: I love personally.
Speaker 2: We should put that on a T shirt for you.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I love that. I think it's much more interesting
Speaker 5: to play these characters, and you know, the trick to
Speaker 5: playing them is to be as normal sounding as possible.
Speaker 5: I've had a lot of friends of mine because I'm
Speaker 5: attracted to the insane, who are really you know, they
Speaker 5: tell you things like they're hearing voices out of you know,
Speaker 5: light boxes and things like that, and they sound so
Speaker 5: together and normal you believe it, so you know they
Speaker 5: abhorrn't crazy shit I'm saying in the episode was you know,
Speaker 5: it's difficult to say that shit, you know, especially now
Speaker 5: it's completely changed. That was like what twelve years ago
Speaker 5: that episode?
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it was seasons fourteen years ago.
Speaker 5: Fourteen years ago.
Speaker 2: So I mean, your little son he says the N
Speaker 2: word to I see. It's kind of shocking.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, you know, it'd be interesting, is that. Has
Speaker 5: that ever happened in recently?
Speaker 2: No, that might be the only N word in SVU
Speaker 2: history on NBC maybe even yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, there's other like little racist slurs, but not
Speaker 1: that one.
Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, not that pointed obvious.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well that was a big scene when you walk
Speaker 2: into the precinct, but also the courtroom obviously shootout that
Speaker 2: probably took a long time as well.
Speaker 5: Yeah it did you know that that was a if
Speaker 5: I can recall, it was a heavily choreographed thing because
Speaker 5: cameras had to shift from one person to the other,
Speaker 5: which is always for me kind of a nightmare because
Speaker 5: if it's an ordered sequence and you fuck up, it's
Speaker 5: not good, you know. Yeah, but all of those guys
Speaker 5: are Chris and she's nuts.
Speaker 1: Man.
Speaker 5: She is so kind. It's so weird because she's been
Speaker 5: on the show for literally a quarter of a century Marishka.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you'd think she gets sick of, you know, dealing
Speaker 5: with the guest stars and storylines and lines themselves, memorize
Speaker 5: the lines themselves. But she is a trooper and they
Speaker 5: love her over there, and it makes sense.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 1: No, We've talked to like one hundred and sixty plus
Speaker 1: actors and every single one of them just has the
Speaker 1: nicest things to say about her, like not a one,
Speaker 1: not a one complaint.
Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, it's kind of unusual. Most of them aren't
Speaker 5: like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so we've heard, well, you probably have all the gossip.
Speaker 2: You've been on every show ever. You know, all the
Speaker 2: looney tunes out there, I.
Speaker 5: Know all the louned, I know all the people you
Speaker 5: don't want to be dealing with. I'm not going to
Speaker 5: say him here because I want to continue to work.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, that's funny because also in your IMDb. There's
Speaker 1: like a big article that you did where you're talking
Speaker 1: about how you've had directors scream at you and you'll
Speaker 1: pull them aside and say, you know, don't talk to
Speaker 1: me like that, and like how that's just not the
Speaker 1: way to get good work out of actors and stuff.
Speaker 5: That takes a lot from me. I was born and
Speaker 5: raised in Canada, where a confrontation was it handled best passive,
Speaker 5: aggressively or you know, stoically, if you will. But some
Speaker 5: of these guys are so fucking rude. Can I swear?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Please? We never stop.
Speaker 5: They're so rude, you know, at my age, it's just
Speaker 5: just so demeaning to be yelled at and there's no
Speaker 5: need for it. It doesn't create good work, causes tension
Speaker 5: on the scene. You know, you can tell when a
Speaker 5: director is really really tight and you know, over officious,
Speaker 5: and you know, the best directors, I think just let
Speaker 5: actors go. They've hired, they've done their jobs. The majority
Speaker 5: of their job is done when they hire the actor,
Speaker 5: and they can shift and you know, subtly move the
Speaker 5: actor one way or another emotionally if they choose. But
Speaker 5: you know, I got a lot of friends they're like,
Speaker 5: I don't give a shit agging yell at me, they
Speaker 5: pay me, I don't care. I'll do what they want,
Speaker 5: which is true. I mean I've been fired, which it
Speaker 5: really didn't bother me actually, because I knew they were
Speaker 5: being so ridiculous early in my career. If that had happened, though,
Speaker 5: I'd implode and you know, quit the.
Speaker 2: Business, devastating.
Speaker 1: Well, And you would know about directors because you've worked
Speaker 1: with like, you've worked with Scorsese multiple times, You've worked
Speaker 1: with Aaron Sorkin, you really have, and then you've done
Speaker 1: tons of television, so I'm sure you've worked with like
Speaker 1: everybody at this point.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, the good ones are all they're all the same,
Speaker 5: they're all like you know, it's different with TV and film.
Speaker 5: I'm sure I'm stayed in the obvious. But because TV's
Speaker 5: so quick, you got to get like twelve to fifteen
Speaker 5: pages a day, sometimes more. You got to move on.
Speaker 5: They can't spend time. You can't improvise a lot at
Speaker 5: all sometimes, which for me is I like a free
Speaker 5: and easy sort of set, if you will. And all
Speaker 5: the major directors aren't going to sound pertentious, but all
Speaker 5: the major directors that I've worked with. Are they all
Speaker 5: do the same thing. If it doesn't come out of
Speaker 5: your mouth naturally, say something else. It's not Shakespeare. We're
Speaker 5: just trying to get the point as long as you're honest.
Speaker 5: Just be honest, so you know, listen, I don't know
Speaker 5: what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: No, it makes total sense. And I agree, Like, if
Speaker 2: you want to get the best workout of someone, making
Speaker 2: them stressed or word perfect or all of that is
Speaker 2: not going to lead to, like you said, a natural
Speaker 2: good performance, like if you're on edge thinking you're going
Speaker 2: to get yelled at. Yeah, I do want to know
Speaker 2: about the firings if it's not too U was it
Speaker 2: like on set?
Speaker 5: Oh? Yeah, it was horrible, man. I was just like,
Speaker 5: I play a lot of lawyers and doctors and people
Speaker 5: that are actually smart and I'm not. So somebody says,
Speaker 5: you know, it's ironic because you're dim, But I play
Speaker 5: all these like, you know, super smart, really aggressive lawyers.
Speaker 5: I guess that comes from me talking quickly or I
Speaker 5: used to talk quickly, but you know, sometimes like I had.
Speaker 5: The last firing was about four or five years years ago,
Speaker 5: and I was doing a very large guest star on
Speaker 5: a show I got the offer, which is great. I
Speaker 5: love getting offers more than anything. I don't like auditioning,
Speaker 5: so that was great. So I was up in Toronto
Speaker 5: and I just didn't have the dialogue and it was
Speaker 5: rather flowery, sort of poetic dialogue, and I did it
Speaker 5: in front of a group of seventy five to maybe
Speaker 5: one hundred and fifty extras and they were all looking
Speaker 5: at me like, I can fucking do this better. I mean,
Speaker 5: this guy's this guy's bad. So well that was happening.
Speaker 5: I'd see a group of producers in a corner going
Speaker 5: looking at me and going it's not gonna work. And
Speaker 5: so the executive producer came up to me at launch
Speaker 5: and said, we're going to have to let you go,
Speaker 5: and I went.
Speaker 6: What why, I'll get it. Just give me a moment,
Speaker 6: you know, I'll fuck up a couple of times. But
Speaker 6: then he started off, I'll do it one more time,
Speaker 6: and I'm going to start clicking my fingers, and I said,
Speaker 6: what's that going to do?
Speaker 5: First of all, you're gonna hear that. No, we're gonna
Speaker 5: do a rehearsal and I'm gonna click my fingers and
Speaker 5: that's how fast you're gonna go and I went, that's it.
Speaker 5: I'm fucking done. I'm gonna be fired, there's no question.
Speaker 5: I called my manager at lunch. I said, I'm gonna
Speaker 5: be fired. She said, you are not going to be fired.
Speaker 5: They never fire anyone me whatever.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, do you still get paid because the
Speaker 2: contract signed?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 5: I totally got paid.
Speaker 2: Hell yeah, great, Jesus, that's wild.
Speaker 5: Couldn't be tell telling stories because you have an enormous
Speaker 5: fan base.
Speaker 1: Okay, well we'll put out We'll try to put all
Speaker 1: the clues together.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're gonna be checking through IMDb. They're sleeps. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I was just gonna say, you were talking about playing lawyers.
Speaker 1: So you do this iconic Nazi character in this episode Raw, which,
Speaker 1: like we said, is one of our tops. Then five
Speaker 1: seasons later, they're like, hey, do you want to pop
Speaker 1: back in and just do this like jailhouse scene as
Speaker 1: the same guy, And you're like, yeah, I'm free. I'd
Speaker 1: love to Nazi again. Look that look on your face
Speaker 1: and you're like so intense.
Speaker 2: Marcia gay Harden's lip gloss was so shiny and perfect,
Speaker 2: and she's like being vicious and you are left thinking
Speaker 2: alone there, I don't know. It's such a good end
Speaker 2: of the episode.
Speaker 5: Yeah, oh, that's very kind of you to say, I
Speaker 5: don't know what I'm doing half the time.
Speaker 1: You could see your character really being like quite the
Speaker 1: boss in jail, you know, in prison, like organizing and
Speaker 1: commanding respect.
Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, weirdly where he can gain respect,
Speaker 5: you know, with the isolated groups that tend to happen
Speaker 5: in prison. I guess he right, Yeah, certainly has control
Speaker 5: of the neo Nazi section. But man, those are fun
Speaker 5: characters to play because, as they say, they're much more,
Speaker 5: you know, in terms of dimension. Then it's really hard
Speaker 5: playing a nice guy. I know that's weird, but you know,
Speaker 5: there's not the play how do you play nice? I mean,
Speaker 5: Canadians all saved. They're nice, but they're not nice. They're
Speaker 5: as mean as we all are down here. That's why
Speaker 5: I moved to New York, where everyone just said, you know,
Speaker 5: you know, when people like or hate you, it's like,
Speaker 5: you know, and they'll tell you to fuck off right away.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 5: There's none of that, Like, I don't you know, in Canada,
Speaker 5: everyone's kind. I guess I'm really blanging on Canada.
Speaker 1: I got a lot of Canadian listeners. I'm sure some
Speaker 1: of them are going to agree and disagree.
Speaker 2: Where in Canada are you from?
Speaker 5: I was born in Peterborough, Ontario, but raised in Ottawa, Ontario,
Speaker 5: which is the capital stay you know, so it's nice,
Speaker 5: it's well laid out, but again, nobody establishes roots in
Speaker 5: Ottawa because the government switches every four to five years,
Speaker 5: so it's like a rootless kind of place. Pretty but rootless.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 5: I couldn't wait to get out of there, so I
Speaker 5: moved to Toronto and quickly got on national tour of
Speaker 5: a Broadway play called Biloxi Blues. Travel with that for
Speaker 5: a year and a half. Ended up in New York
Speaker 5: a long time ago and stayed there, and I did.
Speaker 5: I think one of the first things I did was
Speaker 5: Lawn Order. I think I was playing some doctor, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Law and Order regular on your IMDBs, like one
Speaker 1: of your first major TV things, it seems.
Speaker 5: Yeah, wow, that was wild. That was Gary or back
Speaker 5: Chris and yeah, what's what's the other guy's name was? Chris? Yeah,
Speaker 5: that was the first episode. I was a corner. I
Speaker 5: think it was a corner.
Speaker 2: Oh okay.
Speaker 5: Then I did a Spalding Gray like episode where Spalding
Speaker 5: Gray jumps off a boat or something. I played one
Speaker 5: of the lawyers. Again, I think I played too many
Speaker 5: the lawyers.
Speaker 2: Yeah, doctors, lawyers, judges. Well, now you're you're back.
Speaker 1: You've been back in very recent episodes of SVU playing
Speaker 1: this defense attorney, right, yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I play yeah, a guy who who handles high
Speaker 5: end white collar criminals.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 5: We have a lot of money.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, how expensive do you think your lawyer is?
Speaker 5: Oh, he's at least a thousand.
Speaker 2: An hour yeah, and a retainer. I don't know.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: You represent this Bill O'Reilly type jackass in one, and
Speaker 1: then you represent this other like real dislike pedophile who.
Speaker 2: Seduced an entire family.
Speaker 1: Yes, you're like in the bill O'Reilly episode, which we
Speaker 1: have yet to cover, but we will. This other episode
Speaker 1: that we have covered that's based on the kidnapped in
Speaker 1: plain sight case of the guy who seduced two parents
Speaker 1: to get to their daughter. Basically, then you did King
Speaker 1: of the Moon where you defended Bradley Whitford and finally
Speaker 1: he was a guy who didn't do it, But there
Speaker 1: was like that attempt the risk cutting.
Speaker 2: That was a wild.
Speaker 5: Scene yeah, that's fake glass.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you know.
Speaker 5: Rishka directed that episode. She was great, and she's a
Speaker 5: great actress and she knows how to talk to actors.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 5: It was daunting meeting Bradley because I've been such a
Speaker 5: fan of his for years, so to watch him up close,
Speaker 5: he was so relaxed. My god, Well he's been on
Speaker 5: TV forever, you know. Yeah, it's one episod after another
Speaker 5: of everything. That was cool. Yeah, that was I think
Speaker 5: last year about this time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, last season.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, it's a very recent episode, so it
Speaker 1: stands to reason you could be back, right, they could
Speaker 1: have you back as this defense attorney.
Speaker 5: Or some other you know, aberrant human being.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, never say never.
Speaker 5: You know. The great thing about the show was they
Speaker 5: don't give a shit. It's like, as a neo Nazi,
Speaker 5: I want him as a lawyer next week. Everyone buys it.
Speaker 1: We're the only people that like when you show up
Speaker 1: behind a bench in corner, like.
Speaker 2: That's a Nazi, he's in jail.
Speaker 5: That guys ain't neo Nazy. I like those characters because
Speaker 5: you get stopped in the street, Hey liked you, Hey, Hey, good.
Speaker 2: Jay, Especially in New York. I'm sure people are stopping
Speaker 2: you from that one.
Speaker 5: New Yorkers are pretty cool actually, as they are in LA.
Speaker 5: They don't like to like which it's nobody recognizes me anyway,
Speaker 5: but you know, oh no.
Speaker 2: We talked to people that have been bad guys on
Speaker 2: SVU and people will yell at them on the train
Speaker 2: and stuff. You shouldn't have done that to that woman. Yeah, ever,
Speaker 2: or like Kelly Giddish, she's a gambling addict in the show,
Speaker 2: and she was in a casino and someone ran up
Speaker 2: to and was like, should you be in here?
Speaker 5: You know, it's funny. I never watched the show, so
Speaker 5: I don't even know what everyone's doing. That served me
Speaker 5: well because I don't get so nervous watching these big,
Speaker 5: huge television stars act, you know, because I rarely see them.
Speaker 1: So you just kind of since you don't watch it,
Speaker 1: you just show up and kind of like pretend it's
Speaker 1: the theater.
Speaker 5: Basically, Well, no, I understand what the story is obviously, right, right.
Speaker 2: But like you don't get as Yeah, I guess I
Speaker 2: don't know. As he would only be watching TV all the.
Speaker 5: Time, every show, that's right, that's right, it'd be too
Speaker 5: much a lot of stuff on TV. What are you
Speaker 5: guys nuts about these days? Oh, this is about law
Speaker 5: and order.
Speaker 1: But oh television wise, well, we're Bravo girls, so the
Speaker 1: Real Housewives, Summer House that's always in the background of
Speaker 1: our lives.
Speaker 2: Vander Pum.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I also just finished The Bear last night finally. Oh yeah,
Speaker 2: I love The Bear. I'm late, a little late.
Speaker 5: Talk about a lovely set to be on. Oh my god.
Speaker 5: And the guy is incredible and he's hot, and he's young,
Speaker 5: and he's short, and he's.
Speaker 1: Yeah short, and he's ripped and he's he's an SVU alum.
Speaker 2: So that's all we need to know. Yes, who is it?
Speaker 2: At this point?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 5: Have you? No?
Speaker 2: I have auditioned. I actually auditioned recently for an anti
Speaker 2: immigrant protester number one, but I did not get it.
Speaker 2: I did not get let's you are?
Speaker 1: That would be so crazy? You you are an immigrant?
Speaker 1: Like you know, like an anti immigrant protester.
Speaker 2: I'm an actress.
Speaker 5: Where are you from?
Speaker 2: I'm from the former Soviet Union so present day Ukraine.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I came as a child, like with all the
Speaker 2: restaurant born, not raised. No, no, no, I came as
Speaker 2: a child in nineteen ninety like all the Russian Jews,
Speaker 2: you know, the influx in the late eighties nineties, so
Speaker 2: that was part of us.
Speaker 5: Wow, you have no accent.
Speaker 2: Now that does my sister, who is a teenager. That
Speaker 2: always shocks me because I was so little. But well,
Speaker 2: I saw your credit. You did do an episode of Baywatch,
Speaker 2: and that is how I learned how to speak English.
Speaker 2: Was watching Baywatch.
Speaker 5: That's where I learned how to speak English.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that must have been cool to book.
Speaker 5: I gotta tell you that Baywatch story. I'm a creep, right,
Speaker 5: I'm almost plank and I'm like beating my wife or
Speaker 5: girlfriend and David Hasselhoff steps and he goes, no, no,
Speaker 5: and then the girl, one of the attractive girls, says,
Speaker 5: I'm going to handle it. And they approached me and
Speaker 5: I had the guy. The costume designer was like, we're
Speaker 5: going to have you in a speedo and I went, no, no, no,
Speaker 5: don't put me in. You don't want to know what's
Speaker 5: going on down there. I don't want to show everybody
Speaker 5: what's going on down there. You said you got to
Speaker 5: wear a speedo. I said, I'm not wearing a speedo.
Speaker 5: So we went up to the executive producer and he
Speaker 5: goes he's not wearing a speed I said, I just
Speaker 5: I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to
Speaker 5: do it. So we sort of did retrofitted some very
Speaker 5: long towel to go over my private parts. Well, I well,
Speaker 5: I got beaten by David Hasselhoff's underling.
Speaker 2: Whoa, you have a great memory.
Speaker 5: The great thing about the everyone watches, particularly Marshka's show.
Speaker 5: I think it's by far the best. I haven't seen
Speaker 5: the New Iteration. You know that Chris stars in.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Organized Crime.
Speaker 5: Yeah, but they've got Cameron. I play Cameron's boyfriend in
Speaker 5: an arc on The Practice, and she's a lovely actress.
Speaker 2: Oh. The Practice meant a lot to both of us
Speaker 2: as young people.
Speaker 1: Cameron's in the New Law and Order reboot, Yeah, reboot,
Speaker 1: and then yeah, Christopher Maloney's in the Organized Crime. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's there's a lot. There's a lot of Dick Wolf happening.
Speaker 1: I think it's you could be back on any of
Speaker 1: those at any moment.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I just did an FBI.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah that's him too, Yeah, that's Dick.
Speaker 1: Well, he pretty much I think owns like two full
Speaker 1: nights on NBC, like because there's all the Chicago Meds
Speaker 1: and there's all the lot of orders and then there's
Speaker 1: FBI billions.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 5: Does he watch this, maybe I can say something, Oh.
Speaker 2: We'd love to get him. I don't know. Oh okay,
Speaker 2: Like we've gotten some pr packages from them, so we
Speaker 2: know that they like they do know.
Speaker 5: We access, They're aware.
Speaker 2: Aware, and we have one mole on the inside.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 1: We haven't even tried to really get like the Marishka
Speaker 1: or Ice or Chris yet. We've had some of the
Speaker 1: like Diane Neil and Stephanie marsh and a lot of
Speaker 1: the people that have BD Wong people.
Speaker 2: Who have left the show. But we're waiting.
Speaker 5: I didn't leave it to go like that with a
Speaker 5: steady paycheck and you know, all that all that attention,
Speaker 5: you can parlay that into movie roles, you know.
Speaker 1: I mean, well, what we've heard is like with Christopher
Speaker 1: Maloney leaving after season twelve, was it was like contract
Speaker 1: negotiations just broke down.
Speaker 5: Did he eventually?
Speaker 1: Eventually in season twenty four he came back to then
Speaker 1: do the spinoff of OC. But their characters have reunited
Speaker 1: and there's still a lot of crossovers and there's a
Speaker 1: lot of fans that are you know, they're a big
Speaker 1: will they won't they? For a lot of people, we
Speaker 1: don't really care about that, but a lot of other
Speaker 1: the fans do care about that.
Speaker 2: We think she deserves better. Yeah, a man who will
Speaker 2: choose her first, you.
Speaker 5: Know, Oh god, yeah I choose?
Speaker 2: Can I ask this?
Speaker 1: Like you've were talking before about like, you know, movies
Speaker 1: and TV are obviously different, and you've been like a
Speaker 1: series regular, you've been a recurring guest star, you've just
Speaker 1: done one offs, You've also done a ton of movies.
Speaker 2: Like what's your favorite thing?
Speaker 1: Like when you get booked for something or you like, yes,
Speaker 1: I want to go to New Mexico and work on
Speaker 1: a movie for three months, or I'd rather just be
Speaker 1: in and out in New York for a week and
Speaker 1: then go home, Like what's your what's your vibe?
Speaker 5: Movies? Definitely on location are my favorite. I love acting
Speaker 5: throughout the middle of the night. I think it's fucking
Speaker 5: weird and crazy and narcotic. And you enter this so
Speaker 5: listen to state where nothing you know, I'm riddled with nerves.
Speaker 5: I get none of that when I'm on set. You know,
Speaker 5: on location movies allow or the some of the thankfully
Speaker 5: directors I work with they just allow for there's so
Speaker 5: much in the way of, you know, collaboration. It's like
Speaker 5: they're interested in what you have to say, how you are,
Speaker 5: what's going on, where you've come from, you know, and
Speaker 5: again they kind of leave you alone, you know. But yeah,
Speaker 5: television is different. You know, you got a lot of
Speaker 5: people wanting to be television directors, and so they followed
Speaker 5: the director around and they're often giving notes. So you're
Speaker 5: getting notes from a lot of people on there. All
Speaker 5: they're not always necessarily on the same page. So listen,
Speaker 5: it's all right. It's a great profession. There's nothing wrong
Speaker 5: with it. But you know, I'm telling you all the
Speaker 5: slightly frustrating things that happen.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 5: Television has paid my bills. Everyone thinks I'm rich because
Speaker 5: I've done a number of films, but because of the
Speaker 5: payment structure and films for character actors has changed radically.
Speaker 5: You know, you used to character actors used to make
Speaker 5: four or five hundred thousand dollars easy because they'd have
Speaker 5: a quote that the new production would have to meet
Speaker 5: the quote. The quote would go up and it was
Speaker 5: just like a regular TV. They still do that with
Speaker 5: TV Screen Actors Guild and after. But for films, no
Speaker 5: way you get for me anyways, it's scale ten. Take
Speaker 5: her to leave it, and they're nine guys behind me.
Speaker 5: They're going to take it. I take everything. I don't
Speaker 5: give a shit. I don't give a shit if it's bad.
Speaker 5: I do it all because you know you want to
Speaker 5: you want to continue its physics, just keep moving.
Speaker 2: Yeah, forward momentum. Do you audition anymore or absolutely not?
Speaker 2: Offer only?
Speaker 5: I mean that's changed, thank god. So I audition less
Speaker 5: and less now for movies. All auditioned because some people
Speaker 5: don't know me. But but yeah, I get a lot
Speaker 5: of offers from my from my real and that's so fantastic.
Speaker 2: It now is Scorsese just calling you or what?
Speaker 5: Yeah, well he's in the next round.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 5: We allow him to sleep till noon and then we
Speaker 5: get up and cuddle. Oh right.
Speaker 1: It was so crazy, Like right as I was watching
Speaker 1: Killers of the Flower Moon, like right as we got
Speaker 1: the email that we had booked you for the podcast,
Speaker 1: and then your scene came on and I went, we
Speaker 1: just booked that guy for the podcast. It was like
Speaker 1: really wild. It was like within minutes.
Speaker 5: His sets, I mean I'll go on and on about
Speaker 5: his sets. By far the best actors director out there.
Speaker 5: Just do anything you want as long as you come
Speaker 5: in with shit, you have some ideas. He's open to it.
Speaker 5: He shifts the camera as a result during rehearsals because
Speaker 5: of it. It's not all like, this is what I
Speaker 5: want you to do. And even if he does say
Speaker 5: this is what I want you to do, it works out.
Speaker 5: He knows what he's doing, you know, Yeah, standing the obvious.
Speaker 1: But no, I mean, we've never worked with Scorsese, so
Speaker 1: it's nice to hear.
Speaker 5: You.
Speaker 1: Were also just in American Fiction, another Oscar nominated movie,
Speaker 1: and I loved your part in it.
Speaker 2: We liked that one one.
Speaker 5: It won say what a great guy. I thought a
Speaker 5: speech cool too.
Speaker 1: It's about making make ten twenty million dollar movies instead
Speaker 1: of one two hundred million dollar movie.
Speaker 5: Yeah, which they're saying is not risky, but it's really risky.
Speaker 1: It's a lot of money, and not all of us
Speaker 1: want to go see superheroes exploding each other, you know,
Speaker 1: every single weekend in the movies.
Speaker 5: I can't stand those.
Speaker 2: Things, I know, but you'd be good. You'd be a
Speaker 2: good evil guy.
Speaker 5: On one of those oh yeah, well, thank god, I
Speaker 5: don't think that's going to happen. But you know, they
Speaker 5: want really people with jaws and you know.
Speaker 1: Uh wait, I have a question back to backs ask
Speaker 1: for you. But you get a mugshot? Was that fun
Speaker 1: to have a little mugshot photoshoot?
Speaker 5: They always do that. I'm always I'm always on tickets
Speaker 5: or like, you know, see me in a background. I'm
Speaker 5: neo Nazi. And the prep time for that is like
Speaker 5: real fast though, like I'll get offered the gig and
Speaker 5: then within sometimes within twenty four hours, are on set
Speaker 5: doing the gig. You know, yeah, and thank god here
Speaker 5: in New York. Well, I'm in LA right now, but
Speaker 5: I spend both times between LA and New York. There's
Speaker 5: a lot of shit happening in New York right now,
Speaker 5: which is great. A lot of procedural shit that's happening
Speaker 5: in New York and stuff for guest stars. I don't
Speaker 5: know how many guest stars you've interviewed. I'm sure you've
Speaker 5: interviewed a lot. It's kind of tough. It's not like
Speaker 5: war or anything. I'm not being tortured, but you know,
Speaker 5: it's kind of tough to get in there. Do your
Speaker 5: bit get out, especially after they've been doing it for
Speaker 5: twenty five years. It all comes down from the top,
Speaker 5: and she is classy as hell, great actress, funny as fuck,
Speaker 5: really hysterically funny and inappropriate. Great lead, great lead to him.
Speaker 5: I'm just a guest star, and you know I've done
Speaker 5: four or five of these things.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's over for you. I think we're
Speaker 1: going to have. You said, there's plenty of creeps that
Speaker 1: need defending.
Speaker 2: Well, I was gonna also ask you the last courtroom
Speaker 2: scene you were with raoul A Sparza, did you guys
Speaker 2: have fun?
Speaker 5: Great guy, so you never know, you know, some people
Speaker 5: I'm like, oh, I'm gonna have so much fun with him,
Speaker 5: and then it turns out to be a nightmare. And conversely,
Speaker 5: you get these people that are like that guy seems
Speaker 5: like a dick. He gets on set and he's, you know,
Speaker 5: so kind and warm, and he's playing a character.
Speaker 2: So yeah, my mom like, if you're evil, she won't like,
Speaker 2: she can't fuck with you anymore. If you play like
Speaker 2: an evil character, she can't see past it.
Speaker 5: My mother's like she had judges my work on what
Speaker 5: I'm wearing. Yeah, I liked you and that because I
Speaker 5: was a lawyer playing a guy with a guy. I
Speaker 5: didn't like you in that at all.
Speaker 2: Because I had a Nazi armband on.
Speaker 5: Because I'm doing this now, don't isolate that and go
Speaker 5: we found an the guy on he's playing neo Nazi es.
Speaker 2: He was type caazz.
Speaker 5: My wife is now in the background going, well, wait.
Speaker 2: We wanted to talk about your wife too.
Speaker 1: We can't believe what you're in a power couple, like
Speaker 1: your wife is this big screenwriter who wrote all these
Speaker 1: movies that we love.
Speaker 2: The Secretary is one of my favorite movies. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: used to rent it all the time. I love it
Speaker 2: so much. I watch it at least once a year.
Speaker 2: You do, I do it sick, but I love it.
Speaker 5: The young girls love it. Yeah, you know when they
Speaker 5: find out Aaron's written Secretary, it's a it's a big deal.
Speaker 5: That's a great movie for her to start with. Secretary.
Speaker 5: It's like I thought, it was so well done too,
Speaker 5: and the performances are amazing. James Spader, you know, I
Speaker 5: just did a Blacklist with James Spader. At the second
Speaker 5: to last episode. He's one guy that I thought, oh,
Speaker 5: he's gonna fucking hate me. This guy. But I get
Speaker 5: on set. He is so kind, so nice, he's so smart,
Speaker 5: and he's so good. I don't even know if he's
Speaker 5: doing dialogue in the scene or if he's talking to me.
Speaker 5: That's how good he is. Wow, he was just he
Speaker 5: had literally a three page monologue nailed at every time,
Speaker 5: and I had to have, you know, like I have
Speaker 5: bits of paper with all my dialogue everywhere, as long
Speaker 5: as it's not a master shot and they can't see it,
Speaker 5: you know. But not him. He's another pro.
Speaker 2: Wait, so you and your white you were on the
Speaker 2: show Vinyl.
Speaker 1: You were like you were on the show Vinyl for
Speaker 1: ten episodes and she wrote on that have you guys
Speaker 1: worked together a lot before?
Speaker 2: Did you meet like through the business?
Speaker 5: We've been together like twenty three years, and she was
Speaker 5: writing secretary back when we met, and she goes, I
Speaker 5: think you should come in and be one of these guys,
Speaker 5: the businessman who likes to get beat up on massacres.
Speaker 5: And I went, no, I'm good. I'm not judgmental about anything.
Speaker 5: I'll play anything. But I didn't want to play stuff
Speaker 5: because she had given it to me. Now I do
Speaker 5: it because I'm not an idiot. Back then, it was,
Speaker 5: you know, mister, you know, I'm like, I don't want
Speaker 5: to get into this nepotism shit. You know, I make
Speaker 5: it sound like I'm I'm an angel. I'm not. But
Speaker 5: but I said, I'm not going to do it. And
Speaker 5: then that was it. All the offers went, you know,
Speaker 5: from from her and her various productions went. So I
Speaker 5: learned my lesson. Yeah, now it's ridiculous. It's like, you
Speaker 5: can do it. I can do it. If they want you.
Speaker 5: It's not a big part. Go ahead, do it. Yeah,
Speaker 5: she's done really well. She's wrote Girl in a Train.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I saw that.
Speaker 1: I saw it in the theater because I read that
Speaker 1: book and I loved it and I loved the movie.
Speaker 1: And then you guys have a son. Is he in
Speaker 1: the Is he interested in either writing or acting?
Speaker 5: Or what?
Speaker 2: Was he going to be? An EPO?
Speaker 5: He's a model for IMG. His name is Liam McKenzie.
Speaker 5: Look him up. He's I don't know, worry he didn't
Speaker 5: get looks from me. He got he's a very handsome
Speaker 5: young man.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, yeah he's hot. He's got a hot look.
Speaker 2: Oh oh he's doing runway.
Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, he did a bunch of runway. We went
Speaker 5: to Milan with him and a couple of summers ago,
Speaker 5: and we are in Paris with him.
Speaker 1: He has like a Timothy Challomey look in some of
Speaker 1: these outfits.
Speaker 5: Does he does have a tity schallome load. I don't
Speaker 5: think he's into acting though. I think he's a I
Speaker 5: think he'll be more like his mom. I think you're right,
Speaker 5: he's really smart. He's going to Wesleyan right now.
Speaker 1: Oh wow, okay, I went to Trinity, like right down
Speaker 1: the road from Wesleyan.
Speaker 5: Oh cool girl.
Speaker 1: What did you make theater and English creative writing? You're
Speaker 1: an actor yeah, and a writer, but we both do
Speaker 1: stand up work for comics.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay.
Speaker 5: Who do you like in the stand up world?
Speaker 2: I can't wait to see Ali Wong's new hour. David
Speaker 2: Tell's my favorite. He has a new one coming out,
Speaker 2: so I'm really pumped about that.
Speaker 1: I love Maria Bamford. She's like one of my favorites.
Speaker 5: Oh fucking crazy good.
Speaker 2: She's my one of my absolute favorites.
Speaker 5: When I was a Vinyl Ray Ramano was my partner
Speaker 5: with Bobby Connavali and we got closed.
Speaker 2: Oh did you go to the cellar all the time
Speaker 2: with the comedy Seller. Did you ever come to the
Speaker 2: Comedy Seller all the time. Yeah, because Ray Ramano brought
Speaker 2: Bobby Knavalli and stuff, and Raise known as being very kind.
Speaker 2: He's beloved there and everywhere probably, but.
Speaker 5: So fucking nice man, such a great guy. We finish
Speaker 5: his set, he goes, let's go, and I said, where
Speaker 5: are we going? He goes, I'm going to go around
Speaker 5: the corner? And I went, what's going on around the corner?
Speaker 5: He goes, another comedy set I can get in. We
Speaker 5: just did that all night. I was like fascinated by it.
Speaker 5: I see the exact same act, And that's how good
Speaker 5: these guys are. Raise a very good actor, underrated actor,
Speaker 5: and he has this ability to make shit up like
Speaker 5: it's happening right at that moment, like all great comedians.
Speaker 5: I guess. But what a lesson. And all these guys,
Speaker 5: and you guys know this. They're at the back, they're
Speaker 5: you know, a great set. You know, they're cool, they're
Speaker 5: you know, they all know one another, and they're all
Speaker 5: kind of weirdly famous. You know. I'm shocked at how
Speaker 5: funny they were.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's Lisa's life you're describing. She's like at the
Speaker 1: Comedy Seller she's bopping around doing like five sets a night.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I moved to LA for a few years
Speaker 2: and I just got back to New York like a
Speaker 2: month and a half ago, not even and it's just
Speaker 2: been so fun. I went to Joe's Pub last night
Speaker 2: to watch a show and it was like, this is
Speaker 2: a Monday night and everyone was so talented, And.
Speaker 5: I mean, I prefer New York to LA. Yeah, for
Speaker 5: many of the reasons you mentioned.
Speaker 2: Do you have something coming out soon that you would
Speaker 2: like to tell our listeners about.
Speaker 5: Well, I'm in as you mentioned, I'm in American Fiction.
Speaker 5: By the way, I didn't even know it was that.
Speaker 5: I a friend of mine saw it a tiff. It
Speaker 5: got Best Audience Award and I said what is that
Speaker 5: and he said, American Fiction. You're in it? Ah. I said,
Speaker 5: oh my god. I did that in Boston like a
Speaker 5: year and a half ago. I completely forgot.
Speaker 2: It's really a great movie. It's fun.
Speaker 1: Yeah, your part is so funny when you're like offering
Speaker 1: him that role on the committee.
Speaker 5: That guy's got a big career. He's a great director,
Speaker 5: he's really a good writer, he's a journalist, he's smart.
Speaker 5: He's really cool. Oh cool, he's like, they're very very
Speaker 5: you know, the young ones are not you know, the
Speaker 5: new ones are not that cool. But he's got a
Speaker 5: big career. And Jeffrey Wright.
Speaker 2: Is great, so talented.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm scared of him, but he's great. Oh and
Speaker 5: you know killers are the flower Moon, which is very long,
Speaker 5: but it's also great. I'm just so appreciative. He's given
Speaker 5: me six gigs, including a TV series, and yeah, you know,
Speaker 5: I I tell these young actors the most important thing
Speaker 5: to do is you if you have a if you
Speaker 5: have a good time at the director, always write them.
Speaker 5: They never get letters, nobody, especially the big ones. People
Speaker 5: don't think they need them and they don't want them
Speaker 5: and they don't read them. But it's been the most
Speaker 5: effective thing. I mean, you've got to be honest. She
Speaker 5: can't bullshit. You've got to be specific what you liked
Speaker 5: and didn't and why. But I always do that with
Speaker 5: him because he's you know, he's touched. He's touched, and
Speaker 5: I'm sad. I hope he does a lot more films.
Speaker 5: He's eighty one though, so.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, if you could be the president in your eighties,
Speaker 2: you can make a few more movies. You can make
Speaker 2: a movie.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I wouldn't hire a Walmart super.
Speaker 2: I like you. I interapt with my dad, who's eighty six,
Speaker 2: and I'm like, you shouldn't be out of the house, Like, I.
Speaker 5: Don't know, Dad, you staying out?
Speaker 2: This is amazing. This has been so much fun. I
Speaker 2: feel like we should let you go.
Speaker 5: Uh So my mother said, I'm going to let you
Speaker 5: go now. They want to get rid of you. I
Speaker 5: want to stop talking to you.
Speaker 2: Oh we don't. We have to record more other stuff.
Speaker 5: You guys are great.
Speaker 2: We had so much fun. Thank you. Oh, thank you
Speaker 2: so much. You're the best. Thank you so much for
Speaker 2: talking to us.
Speaker 5: I was scared shitless talking to you, but you're totally cool.
Speaker 2: We were very scared and nervous too. All right, well,
Speaker 2: this is a dream. Hell your wife were big fans.
Speaker 2: We're big fans of you. And thank you so much
Speaker 2: for coming on the pod.
Speaker 5: I'm a big fan of youse. Okay, guys, nice speaking
Speaker 5: with you. You're the best.
Speaker 2: All right, JC, thank you so much. Nice to meet you. Bye.
Speaker 2: I mean, was that a get or was that again?
Speaker 2: I mean?
Speaker 1: And what a power couple him and his wife writing
Speaker 1: secretary and all these you know, I.
Speaker 2: Love meeting a power couple.
Speaker 1: So we meet a lot of people that are like
Speaker 1: married to other actors or other people that are very successful.
Speaker 2: It's some nice to see people can do it. But
Speaker 2: I also liked that he was just like, oh yeah,
Speaker 2: women at your age come up to us about Secretary,
Speaker 2: like they like flock to Secretary. And I felt that way.
Speaker 2: When I saw someone one of the actors from Legally Blonde,
Speaker 2: I was like, you know, you're in one of my
Speaker 2: favorite movies. He goes, were you at a really important
Speaker 2: age in that time period? I go, yes, freshman year
Speaker 2: of thank you. But yeah, he was so cool and
Speaker 2: fun and I love talking to him so much, and
Speaker 2: I love being able to meet Brian Ackerman.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and never thought, never thought we'd have Brian Ackerman,
Speaker 1: the Nazi on our podcast, and we did. I knew,
Speaker 1: I knew, well it was lad that guy and who
Speaker 1: knew that that that guy was hot. I would say,
Speaker 1: that's the hottest purp they've ever had.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. Oh. Also, the GM at
Speaker 2: the Seller stopped me last night and let me know
Speaker 2: that she's she's never seen us to be not one
Speaker 2: episode on your whole her whole life. She just started.
Speaker 2: She's watching three four rapes a day, is what she said.
Speaker 2: And she's on season five right now. Wow. Yeah, she's
Speaker 2: plugging along. But our knowledge is so encyclopedic at this
Speaker 2: point that it is fun. Like it's so fresh for
Speaker 2: her because she's watching it. So we're really meshing in
Speaker 2: terms of being able to communicate, where I'm like, oh,
Speaker 2: and you saw that one that one hauntson you met
Speaker 2: this person, yet I'm like doing yeah, grainer lines to her.
Speaker 1: I I sort of wish I could trade places with
Speaker 1: somebody who's never watched it. It sounds like such a
Speaker 1: fun journey to start on.
Speaker 2: But I guess I could do that. I could watch
Speaker 2: Criminal Minds or something. She said she like the grittiness
Speaker 2: of it and she's never seen OZ. So I said, well,
Speaker 2: after this, you should watch OZ if you want grit,
Speaker 2: if you want grip. Yeah, but I don't know. I
Speaker 2: you watched it in order, so you had that experience.
Speaker 2: I've always been a random watcher. Well, I watching watch.
Speaker 1: I watched it not necessarily in order the first few
Speaker 1: seasons because I was like in college, I wasn't really
Speaker 1: watching like appointment television and we didn't have TiVo.
Speaker 2: You know, like yet cold on your friend who's like
Speaker 2: she mentored the Yukon player, right, yeah, were they in
Speaker 2: that was? Was she playing in that game? Oh? Yeah,
Speaker 2: friend was all the games?
Speaker 5: Wow?
Speaker 1: And I I forgot remember how I was bragging about
Speaker 1: how I got Fox News off my cable package and
Speaker 1: I couldn't wait to fucking like my parents to come
Speaker 1: over and turn on Fox News and it's not availed
Speaker 1: Bell on my cable. I also got rid of ESPN,
Speaker 1: and the only time I wanted to watch anything was
Speaker 1: that Iowa Yukon game and I like, I go on
Speaker 1: and it's like, you don't have this channel, and I'm.
Speaker 2: Like, ah fuck. I thought I never thought i'd need sports,
Speaker 2: but I did.
Speaker 1: But yeah, like so my friend has been at all
Speaker 1: those games and like she plays a lot. It's cool.
Speaker 1: Her name's really everybody if you follow basketball. I am
Speaker 1: personal friends with Ice Brady from the Yukon women's basketball team,
Speaker 1: and I've known her since she was twelve.
Speaker 2: No, it's really cool. What's that I've been crying a
Speaker 2: lot at all of that footage on my Explore page.
Speaker 2: A lot of tears for sure. Yeah, it's been.
Speaker 1: Really cool to see the rise of women's sports. Uh yeah,
Speaker 1: which is a perfect conversation to have during this post
Speaker 1: mortem because I don't really want to talk about like,
Speaker 1: I don't think we can really learn any lessons from
Speaker 1: this episode. Besides, if you're a cop, don't motorcycle chase
Speaker 1: your perpetrator down. It's probably gonna get everything thrown out.
Speaker 1: But besides that, I think there's not that much real
Speaker 1: world application.
Speaker 2: Also, if you're listening from prison, it can always get worse.
Speaker 2: I know he had a life sentence, but now you're
Speaker 2: in solitary malitary. Yeah, you can't, you know, work on
Speaker 2: your Nazi website from prison, like you gotta behave don't
Speaker 2: do that. Oh there's also hopefully this doesn't give you
Speaker 2: too much away when you get into succession. But one guy,
Speaker 2: you know, obviously they're committing crimes, they're evil people, But
Speaker 2: one guy, he's just he knows he's gonna go to
Speaker 2: jail for a white car, Like he just knows. So
Speaker 2: look at all these episodes I'm in right now, are
Speaker 2: him just like prepping and researching about jail and how
Speaker 2: to make wine because he's gonna miss wine and the
Speaker 2: toilet and he's just like toilet dreading it, but they're
Speaker 2: so rich, it's like tough. So he's training for prison
Speaker 2: by going to diners and eating diner food and having
Speaker 2: temperature room temperature water and stuff.
Speaker 1: And it's been fun to it's been funny to watch.
Speaker 1: That's really funny. That's such a funny idea.
Speaker 2: Wow, because he knows he's researching the prisons. And then
Speaker 2: his wife's like, shut the fuck up, but he is.
Speaker 1: Gonna go to prison. I don't know, it's Oh, you
Speaker 1: know who's in it. The guy from Zola, the bumbling
Speaker 1: boyfriend from the movie Zola.
Speaker 2: That's cousin Greg.
Speaker 1: Oh, I know him. Yes, I know who cousin Greg is.
Speaker 1: And also someone told.
Speaker 2: Me that he is fucking all over New York City
Speaker 2: that during six he is he's a New York boy,
Speaker 2: and I guess he's out here fucking. I bet, I
Speaker 2: bet he's that cousin Greg.
Speaker 1: That was another thing, like one of the first or
Speaker 1: second episodes, when he barfed through the mascot mask, I
Speaker 1: was like, oh my god, like I could not handle that.
Speaker 1: I think I watched three or four episodes. No, I
Speaker 1: didn't see it. I didn't see Tigger barf through his
Speaker 1: mask at all.
Speaker 2: But yeah. I like the guy who plays Tom Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And he was in this like British sort of mini
Speaker 1: series that I watched about people that tried to.
Speaker 2: Cheat on who wants to be a millionaire? Okay, cool,
Speaker 2: it's good. Is he British? Is he speaking British? Yeah,
Speaker 2: he's fucking British.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And the girl, the girl shives, she's Australia.
Speaker 2: I mean these she is. Yeah. I didn't know where
Speaker 2: she really came from. I wonder IMDb. It was like
Speaker 2: it was like not a lot. This was her big moment.
Speaker 2: This was right right, this was her big thing. I
Speaker 2: bet she just nailed the audition. And that Culkin, I
Speaker 2: mean he's killing it. Did you see the mcaulay Culkin
Speaker 2: went viral when he did his star No No so
Speaker 2: him and his wife Brenda song she's famous. But they
Speaker 2: went to Nobu Los Cabos or something like that. There's
Speaker 2: like a Mexico Nobou hotel. But you can buy the
Speaker 2: shirt at the merch shot like in the gift shop.
Speaker 2: You can buy the shirt that all the staff wear.
Speaker 2: So he just pretended to work there all week, and
Speaker 2: so it's all the photos of him like carrying luggage
Speaker 2: and serving his wife like working the place, and I'm like,
Speaker 2: this is nice. I like it.
Speaker 1: We're seeing Kevin McAllister who was old Tricks, you know, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I love that. Oh.
Speaker 2: I also wanted to say something. I was talking to
Speaker 2: a guy and it's so fun because like guys like
Speaker 2: never know they're being assaulted or abused. They'll talk about
Speaker 2: stuff where you're like, you were raped by your babysitter.
Speaker 2: And I had one of those discussions where someone's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: my girlfriend like punched me, but I don't know. I'm like,
Speaker 2: once is enough, you leave? He goes, But is it
Speaker 2: the same for guys? I go, yes, you don't have
Speaker 2: to be hit. And it's like, because I had an
Speaker 2: experience where a guy goes, yeah, this grown man when
Speaker 2: I was a teen eight marshmallow peeps off my chest.
Speaker 1: I go, yeah, that's a crime. Yeah, I go, oh,
Speaker 1: that's that's not allowed. But like it's so interesting that
Speaker 1: their brain. And I was telling him. I go and
Speaker 1: I was at the TA. I was talking to him.
Speaker 1: I go, yeah, men don't realize it.
Speaker 2: You'll talk to him guy and he'll say, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: I lost my virginity at eleven to my twenty five
Speaker 2: year old and he's like, that happened to me. My
Speaker 2: first kiss was eight to an eighteen year old. I go,
Speaker 2: that's assault, and he goes it felt fine. I go, no, no, no,
Speaker 2: that's a cry like no. But it's so it's like
Speaker 2: I it is I don't know the right adjective, but
Speaker 2: talking to men about things that they're not realizing as
Speaker 2: bad as a thing. I don't know. You can go
Speaker 2: into the Sister Peg. All right, let's get into Sister Peg.
Speaker 2: This is our weekly segment. This is what would Sister
Speaker 2: Peg do?
Speaker 1: Our weekly segment where we you know, direct you guys
Speaker 1: towards an organization, a book, a blog post, a documentary,
Speaker 1: something to give you more information about what we talked
Speaker 1: about today. And this week we wanted to highlight the
Speaker 1: Southern Poverty Law Center. They specialize in civil rights and
Speaker 1: public interest litigation and they monitor and classify extremist hate
Speaker 1: groups throughout the United States and expose their activities to
Speaker 1: the public, the media, and policymakers. So you know, relevant
Speaker 1: to this episode. They monitor the KKK, neo Nazi movement,
Speaker 1: neo Confederates, government, anti government militias, anti Semitic groups, anti
Speaker 1: LGBTQ groups, and others, and they also work with educators
Speaker 1: across the country to promote tolerance educational programs and you
Speaker 1: can learn I think they do great work. You can
Speaker 1: learn a lot about them and their initiatives and they
Speaker 1: have tons of resources and ways to donate at www
Speaker 1: dot splcenter dot org. So that's Southern Poverty Law Splcenter
Speaker 1: dot org. And that will be you know, posted in
Speaker 1: our stories the day this episode comes out, and we
Speaker 1: save those forever in our WWSPD highlights.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for that. And next week we
Speaker 2: will be doing twenty five acts and that's from season fourteen,
Speaker 2: episode three. See you soon, everybody you know, give us
Speaker 2: some stars or whatever. See you soon bye. That's Messed
Speaker 2: Up as an exactly right production.
Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
Speaker 1: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
Speaker 1: at That's messed uppod at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2: Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod
Speaker 2: and on Twitter at messed Up Pod, and follow us
Speaker 2: personally at Kara Klank and at glitter Cheese.
Speaker 1: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
Speaker 1: more information.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to our producer Casey O'Brien and
Speaker 2: our our associate producer, Christina.
Speaker 1: Chamberlain, and to our mixer John Bradley and our guest
Speaker 1: booker Patrick Cottner. And to Henry Kaperski for our theme
Speaker 1: song and Carly Jean Andrews for our artwork. Thank you
Speaker 1: to our executive producers Georgia Hardstart, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer
Speaker 1: and everybody at Exactly Right Media.
Speaker 2: Dun Dun