1 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:18,079 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece. A gorgeous twenty seven year 2 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:25,120 Speaker 1: old girl has seemingly vanished into thin air. Where is Gretchen? 3 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:28,400 Speaker 1: I mean it, see Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank 4 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 1: you for being with us here at Fox Nation and 5 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:33,919 Speaker 1: series XM one eleven. Let's just kick it off with 6 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:38,440 Speaker 1: a tipline which is three zero four four two four 7 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:43,480 Speaker 1: one zero seven two repeat three zero four four two 8 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 1: four one zero seven two. There is a very strong 9 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 1: chance we can help bring Gretchen home alive. First of all, 10 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:57,600 Speaker 1: take a listen to our friends at wc h S. 11 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 1: The Parkersburg Police Department is asking for help in finding 12 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:04,240 Speaker 1: twenty seven year old Gretchen Fleming of Vienna. Detectives say 13 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:07,000 Speaker 1: she was last seeing the night of December third and fourth, 14 00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:10,440 Speaker 1: but relatives didn't realize she was gone quickly and did 15 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 1: not report it until this week. Police located her purse 16 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:17,200 Speaker 1: and phone, amping up concern. Detectives have worked around the 17 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:21,640 Speaker 1: clock since then to cultivate information, and the public has 18 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:25,240 Speaker 1: really stepped up in regard to tips, and even if 19 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:27,720 Speaker 1: it wasn't from that night, giving us information they thought 20 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:31,600 Speaker 1: was pertinent, and a combination of that has really expedited 21 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:34,920 Speaker 1: the investigation to the point we were able to obtain 22 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 1: some search warrants with me and All Star panel to 23 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:42,120 Speaker 1: make sense of what we know right now. But first, 24 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:44,680 Speaker 1: before I induced to you our panel, I'm want to 25 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:48,280 Speaker 1: go to a special guest joining us. It's Gretchen's father, 26 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:52,040 Speaker 1: David Fleming. Mister Fleming, Thank you for being with us, 27 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 1: Thank you for having me. Mister Fleming. I'm going to 28 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 1: go into all the details surrounding her disappearance as we 29 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 1: know them from police reports, but I'm going to hear 30 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:04,800 Speaker 1: from your family's point of view. When did you realize 31 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:10,120 Speaker 1: Gretchen was gone? Probably that Sunday after she came up 32 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 1: missing the following week. She was staying mother's house, and 33 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:16,600 Speaker 1: she had been and you had to go out and 34 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:18,720 Speaker 1: stay with friends and you know, come back every few 35 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:20,519 Speaker 1: days and get her clothes and get to work. And 36 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:24,280 Speaker 1: she was just gone a little longer than norm and 37 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:28,680 Speaker 1: that's when we started looking for So she was basing herself. 38 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 1: Did you say her mother's home or her brother's Now 39 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:34,679 Speaker 1: she was staying at my grand at her grandmother's house, 40 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:37,680 Speaker 1: my grandmother. I missed that for Syllabel. So she's base 41 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:41,799 Speaker 1: of operations, and you know the reality is that with 42 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 1: let me go to Cheryl McCollum joining me, the founder 43 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:50,640 Speaker 1: and director of the Coalcase Research Institute, currently in law enforcement. 44 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:52,959 Speaker 1: You can find her at Coalcase Crimes dot org. Cheryl. 45 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:56,680 Speaker 1: That's the way millennials are and the next generation as well. 46 00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:01,720 Speaker 1: They don't live under the same rules that we thought 47 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 1: we were supposed to live under. Like, okay, you graduate 48 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:06,920 Speaker 1: from college, and then you get a job, and then 49 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 1: you get an apartment. As soon as you get a 50 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:10,880 Speaker 1: down payment, you put down a house because that's the 51 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 1: best thing to do financially. Oh no, no, no, no no. 52 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 1: In fact, I just read about a knee member I 53 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 1: think he said the house representative says, yeah, I'm gonna 54 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 1: head to DC and sofa couch surf for a few days, 55 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:29,120 Speaker 1: you know, and just see how it unfolds. Absolutely, this 56 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:33,760 Speaker 1: is not unusual to be basically living at grandma's house 57 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 1: because of the location. And then you stay with this 58 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 1: friend girl and that friend girl and this one and that, 59 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 1: and you come back, have dinner, stay a few days, 60 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 1: and then off you go. It's just it's very nomadic. 61 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 1: Let me say, absolutely, it's pretty freeing and kind of adventurous. 62 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:50,640 Speaker 1: I wish somebody told me I didn't have to sign 63 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 1: a lease. Okay, go here to that one bedroom studio 64 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:57,840 Speaker 1: apartment I lived in for so long. But this is 65 00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:01,320 Speaker 1: not unusual. But I think it adds to the dilemma 66 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, because we can't id Okay, this is the 67 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 1: day she didn't come home to Grandma's. See what I mean, 68 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 1: I can't start my crimeline. Well, here's what happens. And 69 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 1: we know this. Even though this was a usual type 70 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:19,400 Speaker 1: of lifestyle for her, there is a pattern and she 71 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:22,919 Speaker 1: usually has not gone this long, and she certainly is not, 72 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 1: you know, avoiding to be in contact with her family. 73 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:29,159 Speaker 1: And what's really important here, Nancy, and this will go 74 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:33,039 Speaker 1: to your timeline. Is that cell phone. She's not with 75 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:36,520 Speaker 1: it and she's not owner. You're absolutely correct. Back to 76 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:42,479 Speaker 1: David Fleming, this is Gretchen's dad joining us. David. I 77 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 1: know that your whole family is twisted up so badly 78 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:51,719 Speaker 1: wanting her to come home. But I appreciate you telling 79 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 1: us very calmly the sequence of events. Now tell me 80 00:04:56,520 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 1: again when you first realize Gretchen was know where you 81 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:03,240 Speaker 1: thought she would be. That is correct, My mother came 82 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:05,279 Speaker 1: over to the house that Sunday and said, you know 83 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 1: this is abnormal. Its been longer than normal. And I said, well, 84 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 1: let's wait till Monday. You know, the weekend's over. Maybe 85 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 1: she'll be back Monday. And then she hasn't work, And 86 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:18,159 Speaker 1: so that's when I started going out, following the trail 87 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:21,599 Speaker 1: and looking for and I failed her purse at one 88 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:24,360 Speaker 1: of the establishments that she was at. My heart just 89 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 1: sunk when you said that I found her purse. Go ahead, 90 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:29,800 Speaker 1: mister Fleming and her purse. I found her debit card 91 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 1: and her cell phone. So then really triggered me that 92 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 1: I knew something was wrong. Hold on, write down everything 93 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:38,599 Speaker 1: you're saying as quickly as I ken debit card, debit card, 94 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:43,280 Speaker 1: and cell phone in purse. You found it and where 95 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:46,279 Speaker 1: was it? It was at an establishment called the front Row, 96 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 1: where somebody from the last establishment basically returned it back 97 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 1: to where they where they begin. It is that like 98 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:54,760 Speaker 1: a restaurant bar? Yeah, that is correct. I mean I 99 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:56,799 Speaker 1: have in my head something like, Jackie, do you agree 100 00:05:56,800 --> 00:06:00,080 Speaker 1: with this, something like I don't know, TGI Fridays or 101 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 1: Applebees or something like that. You can get food, you 102 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 1: can sit at the bar if you want to. It's 103 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:05,800 Speaker 1: just kind of a lot of people in and out. 104 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:09,800 Speaker 1: Hold On, David Fleming with me. This is Gretchen's dad. 105 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:16,760 Speaker 1: Mister Fleming, you said that the grandma, her grandmother, where 106 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:22,160 Speaker 1: she was living. Now, hold on, was that also in Parkersburg, 107 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:25,800 Speaker 1: West Virginia. Yeah, Okay, she lives in Parkersburg. In Vienna, 108 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 1: it's just like they're basically the same town. Vienna's if 109 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:31,680 Speaker 1: the little suburb of Parkersburg. Okay, Vienna is in Wood County, 110 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 1: West Virginia. It's situated right there on the Ohio River, 111 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 1: which is an issue I want to go back to 112 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 1: you on Joe Scott Morgan's situated on the Ohio River 113 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 1: and it borders Parkersburg. Like mister Fleming is telling you, 114 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:47,120 Speaker 1: it's kind of like all one and the same. The population, now, 115 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:49,279 Speaker 1: this is what's important to in my mind, not only 116 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 1: the Ohio River, but the population is around ten seven 117 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 1: hundred and seventy six people, about eleven thousand people. That 118 00:06:57,520 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 1: is small compared to like a used metropolis. It's bigger 119 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:03,360 Speaker 1: than when I grew where I grew up in rural 120 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 1: bib County, but it's still small compared to other places, 121 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 1: and that that touches on the way I would approach 122 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:14,320 Speaker 1: this investigation. However, it's the third largest city by population 123 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 1: in the Parkersburg, Vienna Marietta metropolitan area. That's what I know, 124 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 1: and that population count is going to be very, very important. 125 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:28,640 Speaker 1: So you said on that Sunday, what was the date? 126 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 1: The date in December of that Sunday, mister Fleming, December eleventh, Okay, 127 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 1: that's when the grandma comes over and says, hey, Gretchen 128 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 1: hasn't been home. Now, how many days at that juncture 129 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:48,680 Speaker 1: had she been not at home? Seven said, can you 130 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:51,520 Speaker 1: get me the weekday of December four, twenty twenty two, 131 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 1: So the following should have been the previous Sunday. It 132 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 1: was December third, which would have been that Saturday. Gotcha, 133 00:07:57,640 --> 00:07:59,840 Speaker 1: I've got December four. Thank you for the correction, because 134 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:04,600 Speaker 1: every day matters. Frankly, December three, Saturday, twenty twenty two. 135 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:08,080 Speaker 1: That was the last time she was at grandma's. Okay, guys, 136 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 1: you were just hearing our friends at wc h S 137 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 1: TV now taking us to our friends at WTAP in 138 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:16,960 Speaker 1: the dark, in the cold, just days before Christmas. The 139 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:21,280 Speaker 1: community united with one goal in mind, bringing Gretchen Fleming home. 140 00:08:21,760 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 1: I want everybody to look to your left, to look 141 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:28,920 Speaker 1: to your right. This is what community is. Fleming turns 142 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 1: twenty eight On Christmas Eve. Pastor who spoke at the vigil, 143 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:35,560 Speaker 1: prayed for a miracle that she's home for her birthday. God, 144 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:39,120 Speaker 1: we're just thinking about so many ways and opportunities Father 145 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 1: that you have shared with us, that miracles do happen. 146 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:48,080 Speaker 1: Thank God, we are asking for a miracle now. Miracles 147 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:51,960 Speaker 1: do happen, and that's what I'm praying for in this case, 148 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:56,480 Speaker 1: mister Fleming, miracle to bring your daughter home twenty seven. 149 00:08:56,520 --> 00:08:59,560 Speaker 1: At the time she goes missing, she lives with Grandma 150 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 1: not too far away, and Grandma comes home to the 151 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 1: parents who says, Gretchen's been gone. She's been gone out 152 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:11,960 Speaker 1: a week. That's highly, highly unusual. Now, I wanted to 153 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:15,200 Speaker 1: hear what law enforcement has to say. Take us in 154 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:18,720 Speaker 1: our friends at w TAP. Parkersburg Police Jeef Matthew Board 155 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:21,560 Speaker 1: also got up to speak. He assured the community that 156 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:24,760 Speaker 1: law enforcement is working hard on the case. There are 157 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:27,640 Speaker 1: so many behind the scenes in the Tomarker's Police Department 158 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:33,560 Speaker 1: that have really just essentially not went home since we 159 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:37,640 Speaker 1: found out. Gretchen wasn't home board Enngridge is anyone with 160 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:41,199 Speaker 1: any information to reach out if you hear anything, if 161 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:46,360 Speaker 1: you see anything, if you have a recollection, don't hesitate 162 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:49,120 Speaker 1: to reach out to us, because what might seem minor 163 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 1: to you all might be what we need to help 164 00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:57,679 Speaker 1: bring Gretchen home. You're hearing everyone joining together to find 165 00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:01,480 Speaker 1: this girl. Won't you help us again the tip line 166 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:05,800 Speaker 1: and there is still a chance we can help bring 167 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:09,760 Speaker 1: her home alive? Three zero four four two four ten 168 00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:14,000 Speaker 1: seventy two three or four four two four ten seventy two. 169 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:18,200 Speaker 1: Her father is here begging for your help. If you 170 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:21,920 Speaker 1: can hear our voices, please go online, look at Gretchen, 171 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:26,839 Speaker 1: look at her. I want to see how this evening unfolds. 172 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:37,920 Speaker 1: A Fox Nation exclusive and international pop star stripped of 173 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:41,320 Speaker 1: human rights? How does that happen? Easier than you think. 174 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:46,560 Speaker 1: Join us for a deep dive into Britney Spears's conservatorship Trapped, 175 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:56,679 Speaker 1: streaming now on Fox Nation Crime Stories with Nancy Grace 176 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:04,680 Speaker 1: to Cheryl McCollum joining us, and Dave Matt Crime online 177 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:08,040 Speaker 1: dot Com investigative reporter. First to you, Dave mac, Cheryl, 178 00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 1: Joe Scott, Karen start Dale, Carson jump in and mister Fleming. 179 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:15,200 Speaker 1: Of course you're going to have any correction that we 180 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:18,559 Speaker 1: know from the outside looking in and reading the police reports. 181 00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:22,320 Speaker 1: Dave Mac, tell me what happened that evening? You know what? 182 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:27,920 Speaker 1: Let me fast forward to the video. Is there any 183 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:32,120 Speaker 1: surveillance of video at the front row or the bar 184 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:34,920 Speaker 1: she went to the restaurant she went to afterwards? Yes, 185 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:37,600 Speaker 1: I don't know if they have video at the front 186 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:40,319 Speaker 1: row that hasn't been disclosed in what I've seen, dus bar, 187 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:42,400 Speaker 1: you've got it from my Way. There is video at 188 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:46,000 Speaker 1: my Way. We actually do know who she left the 189 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:49,240 Speaker 1: my Way bar with guys. Hold on my Way. My 190 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 1: Way is also a restaurant bar. They have family karaoke, 191 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 1: They have live news that you can playpool. They have 192 00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 1: this Sunday brunch that people from miles around come to 193 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:06,080 Speaker 1: the Sunday Brunch with their families. Now interesting, Dave Mac, 194 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:10,880 Speaker 1: when was she observed at my Way? Now, remember her 195 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:14,680 Speaker 1: dad is with us, David Fleming. He goes and collects 196 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:18,560 Speaker 1: her pocketbook. At the first restaurant, she went to the 197 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:23,880 Speaker 1: front row, which had her cell phone and her debit 198 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:29,440 Speaker 1: card into in it. Wasn't that the first place she stopped? David? Yes, ma'am. Okay, 199 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:32,680 Speaker 1: so he goes there. How did you know to go there, 200 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:35,719 Speaker 1: mister Fleming because it's a popular place in town and 201 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 1: younger people, you know, hang out there, so I thought 202 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:42,000 Speaker 1: the check there first. Okay, Well that was smart. I 203 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:45,040 Speaker 1: thought maybe they called you because they had this pocketbook. 204 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:47,760 Speaker 1: But you went there all on your own. Yes, that's 205 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:50,959 Speaker 1: a picture of my daughter. And asked if anybody had 206 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:53,240 Speaker 1: seen her, and they said, the matter of fact, she 207 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:56,560 Speaker 1: left her, somebody returned her first year. Karen Start joining 208 00:12:56,559 --> 00:12:59,240 Speaker 1: me werenowned New York psychologists joining us out of Manhattan 209 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 1: today to help find Gretchen. You can find her at 210 00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:05,640 Speaker 1: karen Start dot com. That's Karen with a se Karen, 211 00:13:05,679 --> 00:13:08,280 Speaker 1: did you hear what he just said? I mean, we're 212 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:11,120 Speaker 1: racing through the facts so we can get it out 213 00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:13,520 Speaker 1: there to help find her. But let me to stop 214 00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 1: for a minute. Here's dad and I'm thinking to my dad, 215 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:22,400 Speaker 1: and you know how I feel about my father out 216 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:28,239 Speaker 1: in the cold, going from place to place, bar to restaurant, 217 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:30,760 Speaker 1: to bar to restaurant, the gas station to this to 218 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 1: that with a picture. This is my girl. Have you 219 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:38,440 Speaker 1: seen her. Her name is Gretchen. Can you imagine that, 220 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:41,840 Speaker 1: Karen start? It's so vivid, Nancy, I have such an 221 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:46,680 Speaker 1: image and I'm so sorry of him going around and saying, 222 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:52,640 Speaker 1: have you seen my daughter? And how strange? Who do 223 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:57,319 Speaker 1: you know what? Female would leave the bar and allowed 224 00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:00,360 Speaker 1: let their cell phone be in the bar there be 225 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:04,040 Speaker 1: in the bar. Nobody would leave that behind, And it 226 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:07,720 Speaker 1: makes you wonder what exactly was going on. It's not 227 00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:11,439 Speaker 1: a normal situation. I don't even care if someone had 228 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:14,120 Speaker 1: a lot to drink. You sort of have it attached 229 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:16,920 Speaker 1: to you. Let me ask everybody in the studio, guys, 230 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:19,640 Speaker 1: are you within reach of your cell phone right now? Yes? 231 00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:24,120 Speaker 1: I am, and me and Elly, we all him our 232 00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:27,080 Speaker 1: cell phones right here. Can I tell you, Karen, remember 233 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 1: what I went through trying to decide whether give the 234 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:31,520 Speaker 1: twins a cell phone? Yeah? I had planned to do 235 00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:33,720 Speaker 1: it at age fourteen. And then we all went to 236 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:36,600 Speaker 1: this football game and they didn't shake in every twenty 237 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:38,280 Speaker 1: minutes like they were supposed to. When I was out 238 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:42,160 Speaker 1: wandering in the parking lot, convinced somebody had taken the twins. 239 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:45,120 Speaker 1: Of course they had not taken the twins, but it 240 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:47,840 Speaker 1: was that moment I decided to give them a cell 241 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:50,360 Speaker 1: phone and trick it out with every kind of you know, 242 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:53,320 Speaker 1: find our location at you can put on it. You know, 243 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:56,480 Speaker 1: this cell phone is partly the answer to the question 244 00:14:56,520 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 1: that you're searching. It's just Del Carson, guys, me is 245 00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:03,840 Speaker 1: Dell Carson. He's a high profile Laurie Rode Jackson. But 246 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:06,800 Speaker 1: the real reason we have him on, not only for 247 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:10,800 Speaker 1: his legal acumen, is his former FBI agent for many 248 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:14,920 Speaker 1: years and a former officer in Miami day which is 249 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:17,440 Speaker 1: a very high crime area. Jump in Dell Carson. You know, 250 00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:21,200 Speaker 1: it's a mountainous territory in West Nina. Cell phones have 251 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 1: illuminated league generators like that good point looking at pains 252 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:30,680 Speaker 1: and watching her phone go from one place to another, 253 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:34,080 Speaker 1: see if there's another tandem that goes from that same 254 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:38,320 Speaker 1: place to another. And then you can tell specifically when 255 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:40,760 Speaker 1: she left by looking at the duration of the phone, 256 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:45,160 Speaker 1: is it stays charge to see backwards, how long it's 257 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:47,400 Speaker 1: been alive, and whether or not the father when he 258 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:50,920 Speaker 1: picked up the phone was still active. So and the 259 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:55,520 Speaker 1: other questions like who brought the pocketbook back? Exactly right? 260 00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 1: What she in her car? I mean, where's her car. 261 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:04,160 Speaker 1: Those are important issues, but candidly, there'll be transmissions that 262 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:06,680 Speaker 1: are limited in range, and all they've got to do 263 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:11,040 Speaker 1: is correlate those cell phone pings to isolate out who 264 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:14,200 Speaker 1: the hell was involved with her. Can I jump in, Nancy, Yeah, 265 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:16,760 Speaker 1: but I want to tell you something, Cheryl. Yes, hold 266 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:22,080 Speaker 1: your thought. Guys. I know we're going her key jerky, 267 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:26,040 Speaker 1: but this is the way investigations are. First we were 268 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:27,880 Speaker 1: talking to her dad about her pocket, but now we're 269 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:32,400 Speaker 1: talking about cell phone pings and cars. Okay, so you 270 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:35,840 Speaker 1: have to go with the flow. You can't have an 271 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:38,440 Speaker 1: outline and read it and write down the outline and 272 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 1: think you're going to get a magic answer at the end. 273 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 1: So I'm going to get that question answered, mister Fleming. 274 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:47,120 Speaker 1: This is Gretchen's dad. Was she traveling in her car 275 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 1: that night? Gretchen doesn't have a car. She doesn't ever 276 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 1: wanted her driver's license. She wanted to dose people that 277 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:56,000 Speaker 1: just doesn't want to drive. She was more of a 278 00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:59,480 Speaker 1: you know, got a ride by you know Fred Well. 279 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:03,840 Speaker 1: That also is not unusual for someone her age twenty seven, 280 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:07,439 Speaker 1: but it reflect and agreeability that makes her subject to 281 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:10,800 Speaker 1: being manipulated by people. You know you mean, in other words, 282 00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:12,760 Speaker 1: I don't know about that, but I do know she'd 283 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:14,600 Speaker 1: have to get a ride to wherever she was going, 284 00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:17,280 Speaker 1: so we don't have a car to help us. Let 285 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 1: me mark that off. Cheryl McCollum joining me. Founder director 286 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:26,040 Speaker 1: of the Cold Case Research Institute. She's also active forensic expert. 287 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:29,000 Speaker 1: You can find her and a brand new and it's 288 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:34,160 Speaker 1: a hit podcast, Zone seven. Okay, Cheryl, jump in. So 289 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:37,520 Speaker 1: she's seen at this bar with an older man and 290 00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:41,160 Speaker 1: there's inconsistent statements that he's already made to law enforcement. 291 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:43,240 Speaker 1: Well wait a minute, Wait a minute, wait, wait, wait, 292 00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:46,919 Speaker 1: When you say older, you know she's just twenty seven, 293 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:52,480 Speaker 1: so that can mean arrange. I could be anywhere from 294 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:56,960 Speaker 1: twenty eight to seventy five. Hold on, I'm going to 295 00:17:57,000 --> 00:18:03,399 Speaker 1: follow up, mister Fleming, David Fleming. We're talking about surveillance video, 296 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:07,840 Speaker 1: not at the front row where you retrieved her pocketbook, 297 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:14,760 Speaker 1: but from my way restaurant and lounge. Have you seen 298 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:18,639 Speaker 1: the surveillance video, mister Fleming? And no, I have not, 299 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:21,000 Speaker 1: but I'm aware of it. Have you tried to see it? 300 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:23,920 Speaker 1: I haven't taken the time to go look at it yet, 301 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:27,359 Speaker 1: but I've been told it by detail of what was 302 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:30,119 Speaker 1: all on the video? What were you told is on 303 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:34,560 Speaker 1: the video because what we know about may not be 304 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:38,639 Speaker 1: as let me say, fully fleshed out, is what you 305 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:42,520 Speaker 1: know about? What were you told is on the video? 306 00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:45,120 Speaker 1: I was told that she was at the My Way 307 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:50,120 Speaker 1: and appeared to be pretty intoxicated and talking to an 308 00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:53,679 Speaker 1: older male. Okay, what about this friend? And I'm not 309 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:55,560 Speaker 1: saying he's a suspect because I don't believe that he 310 00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:59,160 Speaker 1: is a suspect. I call him a friend boy because 311 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:02,640 Speaker 1: he's not a boyfriend. He's a friend that is a guy. 312 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:08,720 Speaker 1: She went, like Natalie Holloway, went to Carlos and Charlie's 313 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:12,920 Speaker 1: in Aruba with her friend girls from high school. They 314 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:15,439 Speaker 1: were in a group and then she got separated from 315 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:19,879 Speaker 1: the group and ended up with your Vanderslute may he 316 00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:23,560 Speaker 1: rotten Hell and the Calpoe brothers. May they also rotten Hell? 317 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:29,440 Speaker 1: Your daughter Gretchen goes to the first place, the front 318 00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:34,200 Speaker 1: row with the friend, the longtime friend, who is a male. 319 00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:38,600 Speaker 1: Is he with her at my Way? She rode with 320 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 1: him to my Way and that's where they got separated. Okay, gotcha? 321 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:47,800 Speaker 1: So you were told what about the video, mister Fleming 322 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:51,080 Speaker 1: that basically she appeared to be intoxicated and was talking 323 00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:53,720 Speaker 1: to an order man and ended up believing with him. 324 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 1: When you say older, what do you mean by older? 325 00:19:57,280 --> 00:20:00,080 Speaker 1: You know, mid fifty? What in the hay is a 326 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:02,359 Speaker 1: man as mid fifty's doing with a twenty seven year 327 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:04,639 Speaker 1: old girl. I mean that's a lifestyle, I guess, But 328 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:06,119 Speaker 1: I mean I think the same time every time I 329 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:12,160 Speaker 1: look at Leonardo DiCaprio. What never mind, not the church lady, 330 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:15,720 Speaker 1: not judging. I'm just trying to figure out what this 331 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:21,640 Speaker 1: guy is doing there, trying to pick up young girls. 332 00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:23,840 Speaker 1: And Nancy, if I could just jump in, please, I 333 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:26,720 Speaker 1: wanted to make this point. Here's one of the statements 334 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:30,040 Speaker 1: he made to law enforcement. He told them at one 335 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:33,359 Speaker 1: point that night early morning, she was in his car, 336 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:36,800 Speaker 1: So we not only know he was with her, she 337 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:40,160 Speaker 1: was in his vehicle at some point, and nobody has 338 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:43,880 Speaker 1: seen her since. I think very critical I can add 339 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:47,920 Speaker 1: to that. Nancy. Okay, we've got the video. Guys are 340 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:52,160 Speaker 1: hearing Dave Matt Crime Online dot Com investigative reporter. Everybody 341 00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:55,040 Speaker 1: jump in, Okay, go ahead, Dave. We've got the video 342 00:20:55,280 --> 00:21:00,520 Speaker 1: of Gregg and leaving with this person, and we don't 343 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:02,399 Speaker 1: have it all the way to his car. Okay, the 344 00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:04,399 Speaker 1: video only goes a certain part. He was parked in 345 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:07,440 Speaker 1: an area that wasn't picked up by the video. However, 346 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:10,760 Speaker 1: we have his own admission that she got into the 347 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:14,359 Speaker 1: car with him. He then claims, and this is where 348 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:17,000 Speaker 1: the quag comes in, claims that he just dropped her 349 00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:20,760 Speaker 1: off at some intersection. Okay, that they never went all 350 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 1: the way to his house. That's why police are looking 351 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:26,440 Speaker 1: for anybody in that area, because he lives about two 352 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:29,359 Speaker 1: miles from my way. They're trying to find anybody in 353 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:32,800 Speaker 1: that area that has surveillance videos. What about the intersection, 354 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:36,760 Speaker 1: Dave mac is there a stops, a red light camp? Well, 355 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:40,360 Speaker 1: I don't know. I know that the police obviously did 356 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:43,000 Speaker 1: not believe him in what he said, because it makes 357 00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:45,560 Speaker 1: no sense. You're gonna drop a girl off that you 358 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:47,639 Speaker 1: picked up at a bar at an intersection in the 359 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:50,920 Speaker 1: middle of the night. That makes no sense whatsoever. Okay, now, 360 00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 1: wait to you and I, it doesn't make sense. It 361 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:55,800 Speaker 1: may not make sense. But what if she said, Hey, 362 00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:57,640 Speaker 1: I want out of here, I want any bar, let 363 00:21:57,640 --> 00:21:59,959 Speaker 1: me off right here. I mean, we don't know what happened, 364 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:02,280 Speaker 1: but I tend to agree with you. Guys. Take a 365 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:05,560 Speaker 1: listen to our cut twelve. This is Semantha Cavalia w 366 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:09,440 Speaker 1: TAP new tonight. The Parkersber Police Department has provided WTP 367 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:12,879 Speaker 1: with more details on Gretchen Fleming's disappearance. If you have 368 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:17,040 Speaker 1: video surveillance, Parkersber Police Chief Matthew Board encourages you to 369 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:19,600 Speaker 1: look for this car in your footage. He says to 370 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:22,640 Speaker 1: check footage from late night December third through December fifth. 371 00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:25,480 Speaker 1: If you see the car in your footage, contact Detective 372 00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:28,840 Speaker 1: Zimmer minute three or four four two four ten seventy two. 373 00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:31,840 Speaker 1: During after hours you can call three or four four 374 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:35,760 Speaker 1: two four eighty four forty four. What kind of car 375 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:41,520 Speaker 1: are they looking forward to? David Fleming? This is Gretchen's dad, 376 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:44,680 Speaker 1: Gretchen Fleming's dad. What kind of car are they looking for? 377 00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:48,040 Speaker 1: Mister Fleming. It's a black hatch back. I'm looking for 378 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:51,800 Speaker 1: the model here caught me a little thank you. That's it. 379 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:56,920 Speaker 1: What it's a black Anthan Rogue Sport. Nissan Rogue Sport. 380 00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:01,159 Speaker 1: Now question to the panel, I assume wom that a 381 00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:08,760 Speaker 1: black Nissan Rogue Sport. That's what the described older man 382 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:13,040 Speaker 1: was driving that night, correct, Yeah, Okay. Joe Scott Morgan 383 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:17,359 Speaker 1: joining me now, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of 384 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:22,200 Speaker 1: Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. He's got a hit podcast, 385 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:27,040 Speaker 1: Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan. Joe Scott Jennifer Dulos. 386 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:32,320 Speaker 1: Remember the missing Connecticut mom of five and of course 387 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:38,280 Speaker 1: the husband Fotus and Dulos was her killer. But do 388 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:43,679 Speaker 1: you remember the video and photo montage in this small 389 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:49,640 Speaker 1: police force in Connecticut that they put together. It was incredible. 390 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:56,280 Speaker 1: They have her car, Jennifer Dulos's car, I mean her home, 391 00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:04,680 Speaker 1: and they've got video surveillance from deadlight cams, intersection cams, businesses, 392 00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:08,520 Speaker 1: ring doorbell. What really impressed me they even got a 393 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:10,480 Speaker 1: I think it was a school bus or a public 394 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:15,280 Speaker 1: bus cam where the doors open to let somebody honor 395 00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:18,440 Speaker 1: off on the bus. And you see photos Dulos going by, 396 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:22,920 Speaker 1: placing him at a certain location, ending up at a 397 00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:32,000 Speaker 1: car car wash specifically to have the interior detailed and cleaned, 398 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:37,840 Speaker 1: and in that vehicle her blood was found. That is 399 00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:40,880 Speaker 1: how you do it at this small Connecticut police force, 400 00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:45,360 Speaker 1: and I mean that in a complimentary way, put together 401 00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:50,600 Speaker 1: a video montage of everything that happened that they could 402 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:54,200 Speaker 1: it was very impressive. That is what they're trying to 403 00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:56,800 Speaker 1: do right here, and it is no easy feat. They're 404 00:24:56,840 --> 00:25:03,080 Speaker 1: asking the public, if you have any foot of this block, Hatchback, Nissan, 405 00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:08,399 Speaker 1: Row Sport, call this number. We're trying to piece the 406 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:12,280 Speaker 1: puzzle together. Okay, just gotta jump in. Yeah, you begin 407 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:14,520 Speaker 1: to think about this this, you know they have a 408 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:19,760 Speaker 1: Parkersburg has an advantage in this case where where all 409 00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:22,200 Speaker 1: of this one's down went down. Now, the periphery of 410 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:25,560 Speaker 1: Parkersburg is not a densely populated area. However, this is 411 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:30,240 Speaker 1: a business dining district. It's down toward the river. A 412 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:33,320 Speaker 1: lot of people go there and hang out. So you've 413 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:35,960 Speaker 1: got a lot of businesses that are around there. People 414 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:38,960 Speaker 1: are walking about. I don't know about the cams on 415 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:41,400 Speaker 1: the camp on the stoplights and all of this sort 416 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:45,600 Speaker 1: of thing, but businesses alone will have some kind of 417 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:49,520 Speaker 1: CCTV footage. That's going to be important here when you're 418 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:53,240 Speaker 1: talking about something like a montage, because she her movements 419 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 1: can be tracked, and this is something else I think 420 00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:58,639 Speaker 1: it's critical in this case. You know Mack had mentioned 421 00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:00,879 Speaker 1: something off the air just a little while ago about 422 00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:05,680 Speaker 1: about perhaps some type of agent like a drug being 423 00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:11,360 Speaker 1: placed into her dream. If there is video footage at 424 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:15,119 Speaker 1: one of these bars, you can actually appreciate this, Nancy, 425 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:18,480 Speaker 1: the uptake of a drug like that into a system. Okay, 426 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:22,800 Speaker 1: are you talking about GHB gamm a hydroxyb rate GHB 427 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:27,800 Speaker 1: or rehibital either one. They they kind of accomplish the 428 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:31,399 Speaker 1: same thing. They're both classified as date rate drugs. But 429 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:33,080 Speaker 1: you know the thing about it is both of these 430 00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:35,800 Speaker 1: drugs and people will find this interesting that have ever 431 00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:39,520 Speaker 1: had surgery. They're an aid to anaesthesia. It's like it's 432 00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:41,960 Speaker 1: like a precursor to anesthesia. They put you in this 433 00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:45,640 Speaker 1: kind of dream like state. You can't really remember anything, 434 00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:49,399 Speaker 1: that sort of thing. And to Dale's point earlier he 435 00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:52,560 Speaker 1: talked about compliance, and that's going to be key here. 436 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:54,919 Speaker 1: But if they have if they have footage of her 437 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:58,040 Speaker 1: having ingested a drink, you know they're they're they're throwing 438 00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:00,760 Speaker 1: out this thing about her being a nebria. Well, you 439 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:04,639 Speaker 1: just don't get inebriated suddenly. If there's an agent in 440 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:07,959 Speaker 1: your dream, like a day great drug, it's bam. I mean, 441 00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:11,119 Speaker 1: you see it. The uptake is like really quickly, so 442 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:14,320 Speaker 1: you can have her with a normal gait walking about 443 00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:17,399 Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden she's stumbling. She has 444 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:19,880 Speaker 1: to have somebody put their hands on her to aid 445 00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:22,720 Speaker 1: her as she's walking along. And that's going to be 446 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:25,520 Speaker 1: a big tell with this, you know when all of 447 00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:28,520 Speaker 1: this comes out. Now, back to this car, I'm you 448 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:30,959 Speaker 1: know they say that they question this guy. If they 449 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:33,879 Speaker 1: have her, question this guy. I hope that they have 450 00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:37,119 Speaker 1: an eye on this car, that they can get their 451 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:40,119 Speaker 1: hands on it as soon as possible so that they 452 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,000 Speaker 1: can check this car out and track its movements and 453 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:46,880 Speaker 1: also anything, I mean anything that might be a tie 454 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:49,439 Speaker 1: back to this precious girl. I want to add something 455 00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:53,400 Speaker 1: off what you're saying, Joe Scott Morgan. And again, mister 456 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:58,520 Speaker 1: fleming with me is Gretchen's dad. I'm getting information about 457 00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:01,520 Speaker 1: these stickers that are on the back of the Nissan 458 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:05,720 Speaker 1: Rogue Sport. They are Darth Vader stickers on the back 459 00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:10,920 Speaker 1: passenger windows, one on either side, and apparently there is 460 00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:16,000 Speaker 1: a Outer Banks sticker on the rear window as well. Okay, 461 00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:20,080 Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan, two words, Michelle Parker, do you remember 462 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:23,480 Speaker 1: the People's Court mom who goes missing after she goes 463 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:27,440 Speaker 1: on people's court and she and her fiance, the father 464 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,440 Speaker 1: of her twin children, are fighting mat an engagement ring. 465 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:35,760 Speaker 1: The day that it airs, she goes missing, and then 466 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:39,920 Speaker 1: her vehicle is found parked in a nearby apartment complex 467 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:41,880 Speaker 1: across the street from a mall. As I recall a 468 00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:46,240 Speaker 1: big mall and the stickers it was for, I think 469 00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:48,800 Speaker 1: a glow tan. She did, you know, would go to 470 00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:53,240 Speaker 1: various homes and part of her business was that she 471 00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:56,880 Speaker 1: would do these glow tans. There was a huge sticker 472 00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:01,080 Speaker 1: on her car which made it highly recognizable. They had 473 00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:07,400 Speaker 1: been very meticulously scraped off the vehicle, so somebody knew 474 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:10,160 Speaker 1: that that would give away the location of her car, 475 00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:12,320 Speaker 1: and they did not want her car found. I think 476 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:16,520 Speaker 1: it was a cheap or hummer maybe, so jump in, 477 00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,040 Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan. When you have these stickers on a 478 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:22,080 Speaker 1: car like this, it will give you an insight into 479 00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:24,600 Speaker 1: the lives of people. Who they are, what they do, 480 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:27,640 Speaker 1: what their interests are, where they travel too. You know, 481 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:31,640 Speaker 1: in this case, you know we've got well obviously Darth 482 00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:35,560 Speaker 1: Vader maybe into Star Wars and also traveling you know, 483 00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:39,400 Speaker 1: outer banks. Is this an in place that this individual 484 00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:42,000 Speaker 1: goes to regularly to go get away from it all. 485 00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:43,960 Speaker 1: Is that their place? Is that their thing? Do they 486 00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:46,360 Speaker 1: have associates that'd like to go there? So it gives 487 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:49,240 Speaker 1: you an insight into their life and they're traveling to 488 00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:53,840 Speaker 1: these locations in this particular in this particular vehicle, it 489 00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:58,080 Speaker 1: goes to their style of life and how they live. Also, 490 00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:01,720 Speaker 1: it's highly identifiable VI with stickers on it jump in, 491 00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:03,920 Speaker 1: jump in Share. I'm gonna call him Joe Scott's ripe. 492 00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:06,240 Speaker 1: But there's a flip side of that coin and that 493 00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:10,080 Speaker 1: is it goes to his crimes. Meaning this is a 494 00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:12,920 Speaker 1: four door car. The Darth Vader stickers are on the 495 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:15,840 Speaker 1: back like where children sit. Then that sticker with the 496 00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:18,880 Speaker 1: outer banks looks like those stickers that soccer moms put 497 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,920 Speaker 1: on where they go for the girls weekends. This car 498 00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:25,080 Speaker 1: was non threatening. This isn't like he was in a 499 00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:28,680 Speaker 1: windowless van or a big beat up peacup truck. This 500 00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:32,840 Speaker 1: does not look like a kidnappers car and that's on purpose. Guys. 501 00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:38,680 Speaker 1: This all occurs just before Christmas, but according to police, 502 00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:42,560 Speaker 1: that is not slowing down the search for this gorgeous 503 00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:46,120 Speaker 1: young girl, Gretchen. Take a listen hour cut ten or 504 00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:50,200 Speaker 1: friends at WTAP Sin Scratching was reported missing on December twelfth. 505 00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:53,320 Speaker 1: Chief Board says the department has been working around the clock. 506 00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:57,160 Speaker 1: The investigation has not slowed down. There are people dedicated 507 00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:01,040 Speaker 1: specifically to this case. And as I said, the holidays 508 00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:04,640 Speaker 1: didn't slow that down. Christmas Eve, Christmas Day still working, 509 00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:08,120 Speaker 1: so it has not slowed down with time at all. 510 00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:11,520 Speaker 1: If anything, it's gaining speed. So far. The department has 511 00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:15,480 Speaker 1: issued and executed several search warrants. WTAP asked if the 512 00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:18,000 Speaker 1: person of interest was a part of those search warrants. 513 00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:21,400 Speaker 1: Chief Board cannot say out this time since it is 514 00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:24,760 Speaker 1: an active investigation. I know it seems at times that 515 00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:27,800 Speaker 1: we may not be forthcoming with information, but there's a 516 00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:30,560 Speaker 1: reason for that, and we release what we can. We've 517 00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:34,720 Speaker 1: just seen in the Idaho case where police were actively 518 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:41,280 Speaker 1: trailing suspect. I'm not releasing the details because the suspect 519 00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:44,400 Speaker 1: would have been known and altered his behavior. We saw 520 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:47,320 Speaker 1: the same thing in the Delphi double murder of Abbey 521 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:52,920 Speaker 1: and Libby. The local police held their cards close to 522 00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:55,680 Speaker 1: the vest because if it had gotten out that there 523 00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:58,200 Speaker 1: was a bullet they thought ejected from the gun of 524 00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:03,680 Speaker 1: the purp lying between the two girls' bodies, the moment 525 00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:07,160 Speaker 1: that would have come out. You know, the defendant would 526 00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:09,720 Speaker 1: have gotten rid of that gun in a minute, in 527 00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:15,000 Speaker 1: a heartbeat. So all the evidence is as not released 528 00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:33,160 Speaker 1: to the public for a reason. Crime Stories With Nancy Grace, 529 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:40,040 Speaker 1: I want to talk about something that just got Morgan 530 00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:44,280 Speaker 1: brought up. David Fleming is joining me. This is Gretchen's dad, 531 00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:50,440 Speaker 1: and there have been reports that Gretchen was highly intoxicated 532 00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:55,040 Speaker 1: at the time she was seen exiting the bar, the 533 00:32:55,240 --> 00:33:02,520 Speaker 1: my Way Lounge karaoke lounge. If she been given GHB 534 00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:09,040 Speaker 1: or a ruthie, that's exactly how she would appear drunk 535 00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:11,800 Speaker 1: out of it, much the way I believe Natalie Holloway 536 00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:14,760 Speaker 1: appeared when she left Carlos and Charlie's What can you 537 00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:18,440 Speaker 1: tell me about Gretchen. I really don't have any information 538 00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:20,600 Speaker 1: that you know, I'm just going on hearsay of what 539 00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:24,720 Speaker 1: was reported. Would she have gone out with her girlfriends 540 00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:27,240 Speaker 1: and had a drinking party. Would she have done that 541 00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:30,320 Speaker 1: or is it more likely that she would slip something? 542 00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:33,280 Speaker 1: You know, she probably went out and had some drinks um, 543 00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:35,560 Speaker 1: you know, not to say that it could have been both. 544 00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:38,680 Speaker 1: You know, for instance, if somebody saw me appear intoxicated, 545 00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:42,360 Speaker 1: they would, my close friends would. That's entirely wrong because 546 00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:47,120 Speaker 1: I'm a teetotaler, Nancy. But jump inc. I represented a 547 00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:50,440 Speaker 1: client who a very attractive woman who was at a 548 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:54,880 Speaker 1: bar and she got raped and she had GHB put 549 00:33:55,040 --> 00:34:01,320 Speaker 1: in her drink. She was arrested for fighting with police 550 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:04,800 Speaker 1: when she was dropped off at a fire station, and 551 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:11,480 Speaker 1: she became hugely intoxicated, just as Joe Joe mentioned, and 552 00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:17,600 Speaker 1: she ultimately got charged. Interestingly, we had her blood because 553 00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:20,720 Speaker 1: they took her blood and we could not even find 554 00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:25,040 Speaker 1: any substance like that. It is my belief that you can't. 555 00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:28,080 Speaker 1: Some of those chemicals you're not able to find even 556 00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:32,440 Speaker 1: with a blood draw and Joe, they're metabolized. It's metabolized 557 00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:35,680 Speaker 1: very very quickly. The key is if you have a 558 00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:39,279 Speaker 1: suspect in a case like this, if you dig through 559 00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:42,120 Speaker 1: their home, you dig through their through their car, they 560 00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:44,200 Speaker 1: shouldn't be in possession of this. If they are in 561 00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:47,719 Speaker 1: possession of this, again, it runs kind of parallel to 562 00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:50,040 Speaker 1: the to the narrative. You want to know if they 563 00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:52,040 Speaker 1: have it, do they have the ability to use it? 564 00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:55,719 Speaker 1: And also if this individual has ever done anything like 565 00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:57,879 Speaker 1: this before, that's going to be a big tale as well. 566 00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:00,080 Speaker 1: I want to talk about in the effects of if 567 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:03,080 Speaker 1: your GHB Cheryl McCollum, wouldn't she have acted or appear 568 00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:06,080 Speaker 1: to be drunk. There's no question about it. And here's 569 00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:08,920 Speaker 1: what would be also part of the mo Most likely 570 00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:12,160 Speaker 1: he's gonna like escort her out. He's gonna be like 571 00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:15,000 Speaker 1: holding her elbow or maybe have his arm around her 572 00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:18,399 Speaker 1: leading her away. And that's why I think this video 573 00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:21,160 Speaker 1: is going to be so critical. This guy has been 574 00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:26,239 Speaker 1: identified by police. We know who the POI is. Take 575 00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:29,319 Speaker 1: a listen to our cut thirteen wtap. Chief Ford says 576 00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:32,760 Speaker 1: they believe the person of interest took Fleming to their residence. 577 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:36,040 Speaker 1: The person of interest originally told officials that they gave 578 00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:39,680 Speaker 1: Fleming a ride and she departed at an unknown location. However, 579 00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:43,799 Speaker 1: chief Ford says the story was inconsistent and additional surveillance 580 00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:46,520 Speaker 1: footage led them to believe the person of interest took 581 00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:50,000 Speaker 1: her to their residence. Officials have executed sir to warrants 582 00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:53,800 Speaker 1: on the person of interest residence, car, electronic devices, and 583 00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:57,000 Speaker 1: a storage building. Chief Ford says law enforcement spoke with 584 00:35:57,080 --> 00:35:59,600 Speaker 1: a person of interest in the beginning of the investigation, 585 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:03,399 Speaker 1: but they are no longer giving police information. I'm learning 586 00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:05,600 Speaker 1: a lot from what I just heard. Number One, everything 587 00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:10,719 Speaker 1: we were talking about regarding gathering surveillance at that intersection 588 00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:14,320 Speaker 1: where the POY says he dropped her off, forget that. 589 00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:18,799 Speaker 1: That's null and void because now we know police say 590 00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:24,080 Speaker 1: they have additional information. I believe it to be CCTV 591 00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:30,759 Speaker 1: or S surveillance video some sort that tells them he 592 00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:35,760 Speaker 1: took her to his place. Now right there, Karen Stark, 593 00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:38,040 Speaker 1: If he took her to his place and then she left, 594 00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:41,600 Speaker 1: why not just say that I brought her home. She 595 00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:45,160 Speaker 1: wanted to leave, so I got her an uber. Why 596 00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:49,080 Speaker 1: not say that if that's what happened. Why lie? If 597 00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:52,000 Speaker 1: in fact he did lie, well, Nancy, let's let's be 598 00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:54,320 Speaker 1: clear about this. That's just the fact that he's no 599 00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:59,839 Speaker 1: longer cooperating. That speaks volumes about him holding in from 600 00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:04,880 Speaker 1: nation and being concerned. And he would not tell the 601 00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:08,959 Speaker 1: truth if he brought her back, because why would he would? 602 00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:13,360 Speaker 1: That would make him be even more suspect. So this 603 00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:16,720 Speaker 1: is a nefarious character. There's no doubt in my mind. 604 00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:20,960 Speaker 1: Just just hearing that he's refusing to cooperate at this point, 605 00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:24,120 Speaker 1: and it makes you wonder what would be the next 606 00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:27,640 Speaker 1: steps that they would be taking. Well, another thing is 607 00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:31,440 Speaker 1: I believe Karen start exactly correct. They're looking at the 608 00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:38,600 Speaker 1: next step. Did anyone see that particular Nissan Rogue after 609 00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:43,440 Speaker 1: it went to his David Fleming? This is Gretch's dad, 610 00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:45,800 Speaker 1: as in an apartment or a home. It was at 611 00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:51,920 Speaker 1: a rental home. I wonder if they're wanting surveillance or 612 00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:56,640 Speaker 1: witnesses that saw the car after the car left the home. 613 00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:58,520 Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, take a listen to our 614 00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:02,239 Speaker 1: cut fifteen Marini and they want anyone who lives in 615 00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:05,480 Speaker 1: that area to review their home security systems to see 616 00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:08,160 Speaker 1: if this car is in any of the footage from 617 00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:11,719 Speaker 1: early morning hours of December fourth through noon on the fifth. 618 00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:14,080 Speaker 1: Let's go over what we can see about the car 619 00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:17,040 Speaker 1: that might help it stand out to you. Now, it's 620 00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:19,560 Speaker 1: a black Nissan Rogue Sport. We don't know the year, 621 00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:22,239 Speaker 1: but it seems to be fairly new model. From this 622 00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:27,080 Speaker 1: photo of the back, there's a Pittsburgh Penguins vanity plate cover. Now, 623 00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:30,640 Speaker 1: one distinct thing that might show up on your home footage. 624 00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:33,680 Speaker 1: Both sides of the car have these Darth Vader decals 625 00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:36,360 Speaker 1: on the backseat windows as you can see in the photos. 626 00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:38,719 Speaker 1: It's above the gas stoor and on the other side 627 00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:40,879 Speaker 1: as well, and one more close up of the car 628 00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:43,919 Speaker 1: we can see an outer bank sticker on the left 629 00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:46,960 Speaker 1: side of the rear windshield. Nancy, I gotta jump in, 630 00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:49,799 Speaker 1: please please do. I'm gonna go back to that video 631 00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:51,919 Speaker 1: for a second. Whether or not she had her purse 632 00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:56,000 Speaker 1: when she left is key. Second. If she had her purse, 633 00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:58,560 Speaker 1: then her phone is going to paying wherever he took 634 00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:01,880 Speaker 1: her to his residence or elsewhere. The other thing is 635 00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:05,239 Speaker 1: who brought that purse back that phone would still be 636 00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:08,160 Speaker 1: paying in. Well, it's my understanding she left the purse 637 00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:13,200 Speaker 1: at the bar, the original bar perhaps, and the friend 638 00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:16,359 Speaker 1: boy actually took it back when he couldn't find her 639 00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:20,279 Speaker 1: to the bar where they originally Matt David Fleming. Do 640 00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:27,080 Speaker 1: we know who handed the purse over to the establishment? Yeah? 641 00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:29,880 Speaker 1: Who wasn't? And I don't want to say names. I 642 00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:31,680 Speaker 1: don't need a name. I just need to know. Was 643 00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:33,440 Speaker 1: it somebody there at the bar that night? Was it 644 00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:35,759 Speaker 1: a waiter or a waitress? Was it the friend guy? 645 00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:38,279 Speaker 1: It was it was the friend guy that returned the 646 00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:41,600 Speaker 1: purse back to the guard. Aha. Okay, that's telling me 647 00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:44,000 Speaker 1: a lot. What did you make of that, scharl McCollum. Again, 648 00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:47,440 Speaker 1: what I would focus on now is his cell phone 649 00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:50,279 Speaker 1: pings and if they have flog cameras picking up his 650 00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:55,239 Speaker 1: car all over town, where did he go after going 651 00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:59,520 Speaker 1: to his home? That's a really good point. If the 652 00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:02,000 Speaker 1: digger go to the home, and we hope we know 653 00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:03,600 Speaker 1: that he did go to the home. The cops have 654 00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:06,719 Speaker 1: already told us that they believe he took her to 655 00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:09,520 Speaker 1: the home, And what Cheryla is saying is where did 656 00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:12,800 Speaker 1: he go? Immediately after? David Fleming is with me. This 657 00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:17,320 Speaker 1: is Gretchen's dad. David has Gretchen ever stayed out of 658 00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:20,960 Speaker 1: touch for this long? There is no doubt in my 659 00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:24,000 Speaker 1: mind she has met with foul play. At this very moment, 660 00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:29,080 Speaker 1: she could be being held against her will. There is 661 00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:34,360 Speaker 1: a chance we could help bring Gretchen Fleming home alive. 662 00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:40,640 Speaker 1: Tipline three zero four four two four one zero seven 663 00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:44,600 Speaker 1: to repeat three oh four four two four one zero 664 00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:50,600 Speaker 1: seven two. We wait as justice unfalse. Goodbye, Frank