1 00:00:15,476 --> 00:00:22,476 Speaker 1: Pushkin. Hey everyone, we're taking the week off here at 2 00:00:22,516 --> 00:00:25,956 Speaker 1: Broken Record. But while we're away, I wanted to introduce 3 00:00:25,996 --> 00:00:28,036 Speaker 1: you to a show from a friend of mine called 4 00:00:28,196 --> 00:00:31,756 Speaker 1: The Last Archive. The episode from that show that I'm 5 00:00:31,796 --> 00:00:35,156 Speaker 1: playing for you today is an audio biography of one 6 00:00:35,236 --> 00:00:38,676 Speaker 1: of the most famous composers of the twentieth century who 7 00:00:38,756 --> 00:00:43,196 Speaker 1: most people have never heard of, Raymond Scott. Whether you 8 00:00:43,236 --> 00:00:46,156 Speaker 1: know him or not, you know his music. He wrote 9 00:00:46,196 --> 00:00:47,996 Speaker 1: tons of hits in the thirties. A lot of them 10 00:00:48,036 --> 00:00:51,356 Speaker 1: were used in the Looney Tunes cartoons in some really 11 00:00:51,636 --> 00:00:55,156 Speaker 1: iconic moments. But if you're not a cartoon of fiicionado, 12 00:00:55,276 --> 00:00:57,756 Speaker 1: you probably know him from being sampled by the likes 13 00:00:57,796 --> 00:01:02,036 Speaker 1: of Lizzo, j Dilla, Gorillas and more. But what even 14 00:01:02,076 --> 00:01:05,036 Speaker 1: most fans of Scott don't realize is he wasn't just 15 00:01:05,196 --> 00:01:08,676 Speaker 1: a songwriter. He was also an inventor, and later in 16 00:01:08,716 --> 00:01:12,236 Speaker 1: his life he was hired by Motown Records. The Motown 17 00:01:12,276 --> 00:01:15,436 Speaker 1: Records run by Barry Gordy to create a machine that 18 00:01:15,476 --> 00:01:19,316 Speaker 1: could help people write songs. He called it the Electronium. 19 00:01:20,076 --> 00:01:22,396 Speaker 1: It's just one of the crazy histories uncovered in this 20 00:01:22,436 --> 00:01:25,476 Speaker 1: season of The Last Archive. You can check out all 21 00:01:25,516 --> 00:01:28,356 Speaker 1: the other episodes from season four. Now there's something for 22 00:01:28,436 --> 00:01:32,876 Speaker 1: everyone's stuff on time travel, invasive species, panics, freelance wire 23 00:01:32,956 --> 00:01:39,156 Speaker 1: tappers turned evangelists, and secret science fiction family histories. I'll 24 00:01:39,236 --> 00:01:41,796 Speaker 1: let you figure that one out for yourself. But this 25 00:01:41,916 --> 00:01:44,796 Speaker 1: episode is the one that really got me, so I 26 00:01:44,836 --> 00:01:47,396 Speaker 1: want to play it for you here today. Here's player 27 00:01:47,436 --> 00:01:50,756 Speaker 1: piano from season four of The Last Archive. 28 00:01:56,796 --> 00:01:59,716 Speaker 2: The Last Archive, A History of Truth. 29 00:02:03,316 --> 00:02:06,076 Speaker 3: About thirty years ago, a man named Irwin choose It 30 00:02:06,156 --> 00:02:09,316 Speaker 3: encountered one of the strangest machines almost nobody had ever 31 00:02:09,356 --> 00:02:09,676 Speaker 3: heard of. 32 00:02:10,676 --> 00:02:13,636 Speaker 4: I was forty, I was broke. It was kind of 33 00:02:13,636 --> 00:02:14,716 Speaker 4: a professional failure. 34 00:02:15,676 --> 00:02:18,276 Speaker 3: Choose It was a DJ for a small community radio 35 00:02:18,316 --> 00:02:21,156 Speaker 3: station in New Jersey. A friend of his had put 36 00:02:21,236 --> 00:02:24,396 Speaker 3: him on to a musician named Raymond Scott, one of 37 00:02:24,476 --> 00:02:27,636 Speaker 3: the most famous musicians of the early twentieth century who 38 00:02:27,636 --> 00:02:30,156 Speaker 3: had somehow been completely lost to history. 39 00:02:30,636 --> 00:02:33,716 Speaker 5: These were records that were twenty five cents of pop 40 00:02:33,756 --> 00:02:35,596 Speaker 5: and used record stores back then. 41 00:02:35,596 --> 00:02:37,196 Speaker 4: And you didn't even They didn't even have him in 42 00:02:37,196 --> 00:02:39,196 Speaker 4: a bin. They had him under the bins. 43 00:02:39,796 --> 00:02:42,596 Speaker 3: Joos It loved Scott's music, and he began to get 44 00:02:42,676 --> 00:02:45,516 Speaker 3: drawn into the mystery of it all? Who was this guy? 45 00:02:46,076 --> 00:02:49,396 Speaker 3: He was obsessed, but his research kept dead ending. 46 00:02:50,196 --> 00:02:52,996 Speaker 4: I went to a library and went looking through music 47 00:02:53,076 --> 00:02:56,156 Speaker 4: history books, and there's almost no mention of Raymond Scott. 48 00:02:56,196 --> 00:02:58,196 Speaker 4: He wasn't in the jazz books, he wasn't in the 49 00:02:58,196 --> 00:03:01,676 Speaker 4: classical books, he wasn't in the pop books. I was 50 00:03:01,716 --> 00:03:03,476 Speaker 4: kind of mystify. He was kind of a mystery man. 51 00:03:05,516 --> 00:03:08,556 Speaker 3: He was stuck until his friend found Scott in a 52 00:03:08,596 --> 00:03:12,956 Speaker 3: phone book. He was still alive, living in California, Jews. 53 00:03:12,996 --> 00:03:14,836 Speaker 3: It made a phone call and then he got on 54 00:03:14,876 --> 00:03:18,836 Speaker 3: a plane and flew across the country. By then, Scott 55 00:03:18,876 --> 00:03:21,556 Speaker 3: was in his eighties. He'd had a few strokes and 56 00:03:21,596 --> 00:03:24,316 Speaker 3: he couldn't speak. He would rest in the back of 57 00:03:24,356 --> 00:03:27,316 Speaker 3: a dingy old ranch house with the heat turned all 58 00:03:27,356 --> 00:03:29,876 Speaker 3: the way up and a humidifier on full blast, so 59 00:03:29,916 --> 00:03:32,436 Speaker 3: there was a kind of heavy fog all around. His 60 00:03:32,476 --> 00:03:34,756 Speaker 3: wife was taking care of him, but she also kept 61 00:03:34,756 --> 00:03:37,116 Speaker 3: a lot of stray animals. There was a dog with 62 00:03:37,196 --> 00:03:40,956 Speaker 3: paralyzed hind legs dragging itself around, and a lifetime's worth 63 00:03:40,996 --> 00:03:42,716 Speaker 3: of stuff piled everywhere. 64 00:03:43,436 --> 00:03:46,636 Speaker 4: There were old rusted tape decks, There were wires, There 65 00:03:46,636 --> 00:03:50,236 Speaker 4: were reels of tape. There were seventy eight oar PM discs, 66 00:03:50,276 --> 00:03:53,196 Speaker 4: many of them broken, some of them on shelves old 67 00:03:53,636 --> 00:04:01,636 Speaker 4: magazines of electronic industry publications, parts catalogs, some of them 68 00:04:01,716 --> 00:04:03,836 Speaker 4: dating back to the nineteen forties and fifties. 69 00:04:04,956 --> 00:04:08,556 Speaker 3: I should say this story spooky as it is, it's 70 00:04:08,636 --> 00:04:11,796 Speaker 3: kind of my I'm been Thatt of Haffrey, and I've 71 00:04:11,796 --> 00:04:14,356 Speaker 3: produced this podcast for the last few years, and I'm 72 00:04:14,356 --> 00:04:17,396 Speaker 3: hosting a season of six episodes now, which more on 73 00:04:17,476 --> 00:04:21,196 Speaker 3: that later. All my life, I've written about history and 74 00:04:21,316 --> 00:04:25,116 Speaker 3: made music. To find a secret, hidden archive full of 75 00:04:25,196 --> 00:04:29,676 Speaker 3: strange musical electronics. I can imagine almost nothing better to 76 00:04:29,796 --> 00:04:33,796 Speaker 3: know through artifacts what someone else once knew, something lost 77 00:04:33,956 --> 00:04:37,196 Speaker 3: because the records and papers and magazines that choose had 78 00:04:37,196 --> 00:04:42,076 Speaker 3: found told a story. Scott had been one of the 79 00:04:42,076 --> 00:04:45,076 Speaker 3: most famous musicians of the twentieth century. He'd been on 80 00:04:45,156 --> 00:04:48,156 Speaker 3: TV every week for a long time, in all the 81 00:04:48,196 --> 00:04:52,676 Speaker 3: big magazines and films with the movie stars, but almost 82 00:04:52,716 --> 00:04:54,636 Speaker 3: nobody remembered him now and. 83 00:04:54,556 --> 00:05:00,316 Speaker 5: I saw Raymond's entire life's work spread out between a 84 00:05:00,396 --> 00:05:07,116 Speaker 5: leaky guest shed, a garage, some outbuildings on the property 85 00:05:07,116 --> 00:05:08,516 Speaker 5: in Van NY's. 86 00:05:09,116 --> 00:05:12,876 Speaker 3: And somebody so famous be so forgotten. But something else 87 00:05:12,916 --> 00:05:15,956 Speaker 3: didn't make sense either. There are all these old machines 88 00:05:15,956 --> 00:05:18,836 Speaker 3: and tools strewn about with the rusty edges, and in 89 00:05:18,876 --> 00:05:22,796 Speaker 3: the corner of the guest shed covered in dust, choose 90 00:05:22,836 --> 00:05:26,676 Speaker 3: It saw a huge hunk of metal encased in wood, a. 91 00:05:26,716 --> 00:05:30,756 Speaker 5: Large, dusty piece of furniture, a bit like a wooden console. 92 00:05:31,236 --> 00:05:34,236 Speaker 3: But it wasn't furniture. It was a heavy machine with 93 00:05:34,316 --> 00:05:37,836 Speaker 3: wires spilling out, hundreds of switches on a black metal front, 94 00:05:38,036 --> 00:05:41,436 Speaker 3: and wood paneling all around. It looked like the cockpit 95 00:05:41,476 --> 00:05:44,196 Speaker 3: of an airplane, except that some of the switches and 96 00:05:44,196 --> 00:05:47,196 Speaker 3: buttons said things like record and power, and others said 97 00:05:47,196 --> 00:05:48,436 Speaker 3: things like DOA. 98 00:05:48,796 --> 00:05:49,796 Speaker 4: I didn't know what it was. 99 00:05:51,556 --> 00:05:54,676 Speaker 3: Later on, someone helping to sort through Scott's files found 100 00:05:54,676 --> 00:05:58,356 Speaker 3: a contract. It was between Raymond Scott and Motown Records, 101 00:05:58,716 --> 00:06:03,316 Speaker 3: and it detailed a binding, confidential agreement to build that machine. 102 00:06:03,356 --> 00:06:06,916 Speaker 3: That Choose. It was staring at a machine that was 103 00:06:06,996 --> 00:06:12,556 Speaker 3: meant to write songs, the Electronium Choose. It had come 104 00:06:12,556 --> 00:06:15,316 Speaker 3: out to California because of these twenty five cent records 105 00:06:15,356 --> 00:06:18,876 Speaker 3: he'd gotten obsessed with. It was honestly pretty random, but 106 00:06:19,036 --> 00:06:22,076 Speaker 3: somehow he'd stumbled on one of the strangest stories in 107 00:06:22,116 --> 00:06:23,956 Speaker 3: the history of technology. 108 00:06:24,156 --> 00:06:24,996 Speaker 6: How did it work? 109 00:06:25,836 --> 00:06:29,116 Speaker 3: That's the voice of Brian Keihu, one time keyboardist for 110 00:06:29,116 --> 00:06:33,156 Speaker 3: The Who, Fiona Apple, producer, Beatles historian, and one of 111 00:06:33,156 --> 00:06:35,556 Speaker 3: the people for whom this machine has become now a 112 00:06:35,636 --> 00:06:39,956 Speaker 3: kind of holy grail because it makes no sense. Raymond 113 00:06:39,996 --> 00:06:43,036 Speaker 3: Scott began building this thing in the nineteen fifties, and 114 00:06:43,076 --> 00:06:46,516 Speaker 3: it was a kind of mechanical early artificial intelligence that 115 00:06:46,676 --> 00:06:50,836 Speaker 3: actually worked. Were freaked out about chat GPT. Now this 116 00:06:50,916 --> 00:06:53,716 Speaker 3: thing was built in secret at a major studio in 117 00:06:53,716 --> 00:06:57,276 Speaker 3: the nineteen seventies. Michael Jackson used to watch it work, 118 00:06:57,876 --> 00:06:59,836 Speaker 3: and nobody now can figure out how to get it 119 00:06:59,876 --> 00:07:03,676 Speaker 3: to work again. In the years between choose it stumbling 120 00:07:03,796 --> 00:07:06,716 Speaker 3: upon the electronium in that Rundown ranch house and today 121 00:07:07,196 --> 00:07:09,476 Speaker 3: a lot of people have gotten involved in preserving the 122 00:07:09,516 --> 00:07:11,836 Speaker 3: machine or bringing it back to life in some fashion. 123 00:07:12,476 --> 00:07:16,076 Speaker 3: Brian Keyhu, but also Mark Mothersbaugh, the lead singer of 124 00:07:16,116 --> 00:07:19,596 Speaker 3: Devo gat Ye the pop star, and teams of engineers 125 00:07:19,596 --> 00:07:23,316 Speaker 3: and programmers and musicians from all around the world. Because 126 00:07:23,316 --> 00:07:25,836 Speaker 3: it turns out that the man behind it knew how 127 00:07:25,876 --> 00:07:28,876 Speaker 3: to make music like no one else and they want 128 00:07:28,876 --> 00:07:34,276 Speaker 3: to hear it again. Welcome to season four of The 129 00:07:34,356 --> 00:07:37,316 Speaker 3: Last Archive, the show about how we know what we know, 130 00:07:37,596 --> 00:07:39,756 Speaker 3: how we used to know things, and why it seems 131 00:07:39,796 --> 00:07:43,956 Speaker 3: sometimes lately is if we don't know anything at all. 132 00:07:44,156 --> 00:07:48,276 Speaker 3: This episode is about that machine and its inventor, Raymond Scott, 133 00:07:49,236 --> 00:07:51,756 Speaker 3: not just because Scott is the most famous composer of 134 00:07:51,796 --> 00:07:54,076 Speaker 3: the twentieth century that most people have never heard of, 135 00:07:54,996 --> 00:07:56,916 Speaker 3: but because I think his life traces one of the 136 00:07:56,916 --> 00:08:00,716 Speaker 3: biggest stories about truth in our world today, the attempt 137 00:08:00,716 --> 00:08:09,276 Speaker 3: to define the difference between man and machine. 138 00:08:13,036 --> 00:08:15,676 Speaker 7: Remarks before Harry sits down. He is now setting down. 139 00:08:16,076 --> 00:08:18,476 Speaker 3: There's another reason I want to spend some time with Scott. 140 00:08:19,716 --> 00:08:21,636 Speaker 8: He is making himself comfortable. 141 00:08:22,036 --> 00:08:25,636 Speaker 3: He recorded his whole life and again there he goes, 142 00:08:25,876 --> 00:08:38,796 Speaker 3: which made for some fun research. Raymond Scott was born 143 00:08:38,796 --> 00:08:41,876 Speaker 3: in Brooklyn in nineteen oh eight. His parents named him 144 00:08:41,916 --> 00:08:45,356 Speaker 3: Harry Warno. His father had sailed from Russia to New 145 00:08:45,436 --> 00:08:49,396 Speaker 3: York two years earlier on a ship called America. Sometime 146 00:08:49,436 --> 00:08:52,036 Speaker 3: after Scott was born, his parents bought a music store 147 00:08:52,036 --> 00:08:55,996 Speaker 3: in Brooklyn. In Brownsville, a small Jewish neighborhood. They lived 148 00:08:55,996 --> 00:08:59,076 Speaker 3: in the two floor apartment above their shop, surrounded by 149 00:08:59,156 --> 00:09:03,756 Speaker 3: music and sound machines. Scott especially loved the phone. Sometimes 150 00:09:03,836 --> 00:09:16,516 Speaker 3: he'd make prank calls. Scott was growing up in an 151 00:09:16,556 --> 00:09:19,596 Speaker 3: in between time, a mismatch of the world we know now, 152 00:09:19,796 --> 00:09:22,836 Speaker 3: in the world of the nineteenth century. The electrified subway 153 00:09:22,916 --> 00:09:25,316 Speaker 3: was brand new then. The year Scott was born, it 154 00:09:25,316 --> 00:09:27,836 Speaker 3: had made its way out to Brooklyn, but the gas 155 00:09:27,876 --> 00:09:30,556 Speaker 3: street lamps in Brownsville were still lit every night by 156 00:09:30,556 --> 00:09:33,756 Speaker 3: a lamplighter. There were chickens in the street, the smell 157 00:09:33,796 --> 00:09:36,956 Speaker 3: of the sea out over Canarsi, candy shops and tenements, 158 00:09:37,196 --> 00:09:39,996 Speaker 3: hot spiced corn beef in the delis, and briny half 159 00:09:40,036 --> 00:09:43,356 Speaker 3: sour pickles in the Jewish market, farms in Salt Water. 160 00:09:44,236 --> 00:09:46,716 Speaker 3: It felt like the old country. It felt like the 161 00:09:46,836 --> 00:09:47,476 Speaker 3: ends of the earth. 162 00:09:50,716 --> 00:09:53,676 Speaker 9: It was a lack a little village. It was a neighborhood. 163 00:09:54,276 --> 00:09:57,036 Speaker 3: Pearls Imny Winters one of the girls from the neighborhood. 164 00:09:57,596 --> 00:10:00,596 Speaker 3: Later on she and Scott got married, and she's all 165 00:10:00,636 --> 00:10:04,356 Speaker 3: over Scott's recordings. Jusit, who never got over his obsession 166 00:10:04,356 --> 00:10:07,156 Speaker 3: with Raymond Scott interviewed her with a colleague just a 167 00:10:07,196 --> 00:10:08,196 Speaker 3: little before she died. 168 00:10:08,596 --> 00:10:11,436 Speaker 9: They used go into the music store, you know, to 169 00:10:11,476 --> 00:10:12,116 Speaker 9: buy music. 170 00:10:12,156 --> 00:10:16,476 Speaker 3: When I was a kid, that music shop is where 171 00:10:16,516 --> 00:10:19,676 Speaker 3: I think the dream of the songwriting machine began. It 172 00:10:19,756 --> 00:10:22,356 Speaker 3: was a snapshot of everything that was changing in music 173 00:10:22,396 --> 00:10:25,596 Speaker 3: in the early nineteen hundreds. For centuries, if you wanted 174 00:10:25,596 --> 00:10:27,956 Speaker 3: to hear music in your house, someone in your family 175 00:10:28,036 --> 00:10:30,996 Speaker 3: needed to know how to play. For a while, buying 176 00:10:30,996 --> 00:10:35,196 Speaker 3: a song meant buying sheet music bound together in little pamphlets. 177 00:10:35,556 --> 00:10:38,916 Speaker 3: But later in the nineteenth century, technologies that could capture 178 00:10:38,996 --> 00:10:41,676 Speaker 3: and reproduce sound were invented, and by the start of 179 00:10:41,716 --> 00:10:45,996 Speaker 3: the twentieth century, mechanical music was taking off. Suddenly, you 180 00:10:46,036 --> 00:10:47,996 Speaker 3: didn't need to know somebody who could play to listen 181 00:10:47,996 --> 00:10:51,596 Speaker 3: to music. You could listen on records, wax cylinders, the radio. 182 00:10:52,116 --> 00:10:54,756 Speaker 3: Scott was obsessed with these machines and the music that 183 00:10:54,796 --> 00:10:58,036 Speaker 3: came out of them. He even started an amateur home 184 00:10:58,116 --> 00:11:01,276 Speaker 3: radio station so he could make broadcasts from his bedroom 185 00:11:01,636 --> 00:11:03,476 Speaker 3: to the living room. 186 00:11:03,836 --> 00:11:07,356 Speaker 8: You mean to tell me that's recording now, Oh my god, 187 00:11:07,436 --> 00:11:08,036 Speaker 8: lot to fuck that. 188 00:11:09,196 --> 00:11:11,436 Speaker 3: Even as a kid he was always working on something. 189 00:11:11,876 --> 00:11:15,116 Speaker 3: He dangle microphones out the window to record conversations on 190 00:11:15,156 --> 00:11:18,236 Speaker 3: the street or the neighbor practicing piano. He would hang 191 00:11:18,276 --> 00:11:21,276 Speaker 3: around the music shop with his dad, tinkering and watching 192 00:11:21,436 --> 00:11:24,516 Speaker 3: not just how music was made, but how it was sold, 193 00:11:24,716 --> 00:11:28,156 Speaker 3: what sold, and how it got reproduced. And there was 194 00:11:28,156 --> 00:11:32,396 Speaker 3: one machine in particular that he became fascinated by. 195 00:11:33,276 --> 00:11:35,636 Speaker 9: He told me that he taught himself to play the 196 00:11:35,676 --> 00:11:39,396 Speaker 9: piano with the player piano, and I guess that's how 197 00:11:39,476 --> 00:11:41,356 Speaker 9: he first started. 198 00:11:42,356 --> 00:11:46,036 Speaker 3: The player piano. You've probably seen one before in a 199 00:11:46,076 --> 00:11:49,356 Speaker 3: saloon in an old Western, you know, when someone gets shot, 200 00:11:49,716 --> 00:11:53,076 Speaker 3: falls on the piano and it starts playing itself. That's 201 00:11:53,116 --> 00:11:55,996 Speaker 3: the player piano, a piano that plays as if there 202 00:11:55,996 --> 00:11:58,756 Speaker 3: were a ghost of the keyboard. Songs were sold as 203 00:11:58,836 --> 00:12:01,716 Speaker 3: scrolls of paper with little holes punched out for each note, 204 00:12:01,836 --> 00:12:05,396 Speaker 3: a set of mechanical instructions for the piano. The result 205 00:12:05,676 --> 00:12:08,836 Speaker 3: you could hear nearly any song in your home, even 206 00:12:08,876 --> 00:12:10,916 Speaker 3: if you you had no idea how to play it yourself. 207 00:12:11,556 --> 00:12:14,196 Speaker 3: Scott loved the piano in the shop. He'd take a 208 00:12:14,316 --> 00:12:18,036 Speaker 3: role and probably play it as slowly as possible, fitting 209 00:12:18,076 --> 00:12:20,756 Speaker 3: his little fingers to the keys as they press themselves down, 210 00:12:21,516 --> 00:12:26,836 Speaker 3: learning by machine. Most people these days think of the 211 00:12:26,836 --> 00:12:30,116 Speaker 3: player piano as a novelty or a gimmick, but I 212 00:12:30,156 --> 00:12:32,476 Speaker 3: want to spend a minute with it here because it's 213 00:12:32,476 --> 00:12:35,276 Speaker 3: a big part not just of music history, but of 214 00:12:35,316 --> 00:12:39,476 Speaker 3: automation history. We tend to think of automation as man 215 00:12:39,596 --> 00:12:42,996 Speaker 3: versus robot, factory lines and coal mines, but the player 216 00:12:42,996 --> 00:12:45,556 Speaker 3: piano was a kind of robot too, one we often 217 00:12:45,596 --> 00:12:50,956 Speaker 3: forget about, but in early, massively influential, one that foreshadowed 218 00:12:51,076 --> 00:12:55,876 Speaker 3: so much of what was to come. When Scott was 219 00:12:55,876 --> 00:12:58,076 Speaker 3: a kid, people thought the player piano would be the 220 00:12:58,116 --> 00:13:01,556 Speaker 3: future of music. There were hundreds of thousands of them 221 00:13:01,636 --> 00:13:06,396 Speaker 3: sold each year in millions of song roles. By nineteen nineteen, 222 00:13:06,596 --> 00:13:09,396 Speaker 3: when Scott was eleven, there were more player pianos being 223 00:13:09,436 --> 00:13:14,396 Speaker 3: sold than regular pianos. It wasn't just sales, though. Copyright 224 00:13:14,436 --> 00:13:16,556 Speaker 3: laws in the United States were built around the player 225 00:13:16,556 --> 00:13:19,636 Speaker 3: piano and the record player an equal part. You can 226 00:13:19,716 --> 00:13:23,116 Speaker 3: draw a straight line from player piano roles to punch 227 00:13:23,196 --> 00:13:27,116 Speaker 3: cards and the first computer programs, and people made all 228 00:13:27,196 --> 00:13:30,116 Speaker 3: kinds of player pianos. What you're listening to now is 229 00:13:30,156 --> 00:13:32,676 Speaker 3: a special kind of player piano role that could capture 230 00:13:32,716 --> 00:13:35,996 Speaker 3: all the subtleties of a human performance. This one was 231 00:13:36,036 --> 00:13:39,316 Speaker 3: recorded by the composer w C and reproduced decades after 232 00:13:39,356 --> 00:13:43,716 Speaker 3: his death. By machine. That's what Scott was learning in 233 00:13:43,756 --> 00:13:47,076 Speaker 3: his family's music shop, role by role, not just to 234 00:13:47,156 --> 00:13:49,876 Speaker 3: play like a machine, but to wonder at all the 235 00:13:49,956 --> 00:13:58,356 Speaker 3: magical things machines suddenly could do. When I was trying 236 00:13:58,356 --> 00:14:00,556 Speaker 3: to understand how Scott grew up, I read up on 237 00:14:00,636 --> 00:14:04,196 Speaker 3: his neighborhood, and in one memoir I found a particular 238 00:14:04,236 --> 00:14:07,556 Speaker 3: detail that snapped it all into view. The drug store 239 00:14:07,636 --> 00:14:09,716 Speaker 3: just down the street from Scott had a poster in 240 00:14:09,756 --> 00:14:13,276 Speaker 3: the window. It was titled the Human Factory, and it 241 00:14:13,396 --> 00:14:15,236 Speaker 3: imagined a person as if they were a kind of 242 00:14:15,356 --> 00:14:20,076 Speaker 3: complex machine, with all these little engineers inside. Scott must 243 00:14:20,116 --> 00:14:23,436 Speaker 3: have passed that poster plenty of times. He had dreams 244 00:14:23,476 --> 00:14:26,436 Speaker 3: of becoming like a machine himself, attaching motors to his 245 00:14:26,516 --> 00:14:28,956 Speaker 3: hands so he could play the piano faster, the kind 246 00:14:28,996 --> 00:14:33,276 Speaker 3: of way only a player piano could. Everywhere that line 247 00:14:33,316 --> 00:14:38,676 Speaker 3: between man and machine was beginning to blur, but there 248 00:14:38,716 --> 00:14:42,476 Speaker 3: was one place where the difference was unmistakable. A machine 249 00:14:42,836 --> 00:14:47,316 Speaker 3: never made mistakes. The song sounded the same every single time, 250 00:14:47,796 --> 00:14:49,796 Speaker 3: and to Scott, that was the ideal. 251 00:14:50,676 --> 00:14:54,916 Speaker 9: The struggle between being a musician and an engineer was 252 00:14:55,476 --> 00:15:01,116 Speaker 9: very real for him. He just loved equipment. Mock was 253 00:15:01,156 --> 00:15:04,636 Speaker 9: the one insisted that he go to Julia. I don't 254 00:15:04,636 --> 00:15:05,756 Speaker 9: think he wanted to. 255 00:15:06,276 --> 00:15:10,916 Speaker 3: That choice music or engineer. It set the chorus for 256 00:15:10,996 --> 00:15:15,276 Speaker 3: Scott's entire life because Scott never could give up on engineering. 257 00:15:15,636 --> 00:15:18,076 Speaker 3: But his brother, who was a rising star in music, 258 00:15:18,396 --> 00:15:20,996 Speaker 3: saw that he had a gift for composing that almost 259 00:15:20,996 --> 00:15:23,756 Speaker 3: no one else did. He got Scott a job as 260 00:15:23,796 --> 00:15:27,276 Speaker 3: the pianist for the CBS Radio Orchestra, and immediately Scott 261 00:15:27,316 --> 00:15:30,196 Speaker 3: began to get noticed. He was anxious that people would 262 00:15:30,196 --> 00:15:32,116 Speaker 3: think he only had the job because of his brother, 263 00:15:32,556 --> 00:15:35,796 Speaker 3: so Harry Warno flipped through the phone book until he 264 00:15:35,836 --> 00:15:39,036 Speaker 3: found a name he liked, Raymond Scott, a name he 265 00:15:39,076 --> 00:15:42,036 Speaker 3: also chose because it sounded less Jewish and he was 266 00:15:42,076 --> 00:15:45,796 Speaker 3: always anxious about that. He played his piano, he wrote 267 00:15:45,836 --> 00:15:49,236 Speaker 3: his songs, and he kept his engineering passion more as 268 00:15:49,236 --> 00:15:53,716 Speaker 3: a hobby. CBS was a good situation except for one thing. 269 00:15:54,596 --> 00:15:57,876 Speaker 3: He was always playing standards songs that people knew they 270 00:15:58,036 --> 00:16:00,076 Speaker 3: liked and had heard a million times already. 271 00:16:00,636 --> 00:16:03,436 Speaker 5: He said that he wanted to write music that people 272 00:16:03,436 --> 00:16:06,596 Speaker 5: would like the first time they heard it. He asked 273 00:16:06,596 --> 00:16:09,076 Speaker 5: his brother Mark if he could put together a bit. 274 00:16:09,716 --> 00:16:11,756 Speaker 5: He wanted to put together a six piece band with 275 00:16:11,876 --> 00:16:12,716 Speaker 5: himself in it. 276 00:16:15,916 --> 00:16:19,476 Speaker 3: Mark said yes. Scott started hunting for five musicians who 277 00:16:19,476 --> 00:16:22,516 Speaker 3: could do exactly what he wanted. What he wanted was 278 00:16:22,636 --> 00:16:25,156 Speaker 3: music with a spark that could form a connection with 279 00:16:25,196 --> 00:16:28,196 Speaker 3: a listener immediately out of nowhere. He had a couple 280 00:16:28,316 --> 00:16:31,716 Speaker 3: songs ready, so he found his guys, rehearsed, and then 281 00:16:31,716 --> 00:16:35,436 Speaker 3: he got an audience together in CBS's Studio B. They 282 00:16:35,436 --> 00:16:38,756 Speaker 3: dimmed the lights all the way and they began to play. 283 00:16:40,996 --> 00:16:42,836 Speaker 3: A journalist wrote about it a year later. 284 00:16:43,836 --> 00:16:47,036 Speaker 10: Nobody who attended that premiere eighteen months ago was likely 285 00:16:47,116 --> 00:16:49,796 Speaker 10: to forget it. Out of the darkness, there came a 286 00:16:49,876 --> 00:16:55,076 Speaker 10: thin wailing note, barely masking a slow, suggestive thumping on 287 00:16:55,156 --> 00:16:57,876 Speaker 10: the drums. When it was over, the audience rose to 288 00:16:57,916 --> 00:16:59,076 Speaker 10: its feet and cheered. 289 00:16:59,556 --> 00:17:02,836 Speaker 7: Fan Mail poured in, Who was this man's Scott? 290 00:17:02,996 --> 00:17:06,516 Speaker 9: Where was he from? Where had he been all these years? 291 00:17:08,076 --> 00:17:09,236 Speaker 4: They created. 292 00:17:11,396 --> 00:17:16,156 Speaker 5: Generated such an amazing listener reaction that they immediately got 293 00:17:16,476 --> 00:17:20,716 Speaker 5: a recording contract with the Master Label, which was owned 294 00:17:20,756 --> 00:17:24,236 Speaker 5: by Irving Mills, who was Duke Ellington's manager. 295 00:17:25,036 --> 00:17:27,556 Speaker 3: The response was unprecedented and. 296 00:17:27,556 --> 00:17:29,436 Speaker 11: Admitted I'm going to take you right on in, but 297 00:17:29,476 --> 00:17:31,356 Speaker 11: we're going to have a very entertaining visit with one 298 00:17:31,396 --> 00:17:31,836 Speaker 11: of the years. 299 00:17:31,836 --> 00:17:33,916 Speaker 10: Them fational music, good, don't they get in there. 300 00:17:34,596 --> 00:17:37,876 Speaker 3: Scott was trying to sell a perfect musical package. He 301 00:17:37,916 --> 00:17:40,396 Speaker 3: said he went out to clubs to track which tempos 302 00:17:40,396 --> 00:17:42,916 Speaker 3: made people get up and dance. He had a whole 303 00:17:42,916 --> 00:17:45,796 Speaker 3: thing about names. He called his band of six people 304 00:17:45,876 --> 00:17:49,836 Speaker 3: a quintet, not a sextet. He even renamed his saxophone player. 305 00:17:50,236 --> 00:17:51,636 Speaker 12: And he is the youngest of all group. 306 00:17:51,876 --> 00:17:54,516 Speaker 8: His name was originally Dave Harris, but now it's Eric 307 00:17:54,556 --> 00:17:55,796 Speaker 8: Hoek Eric Koek. 308 00:17:55,876 --> 00:17:56,956 Speaker 5: Then it's an interesting name. 309 00:17:57,196 --> 00:17:58,796 Speaker 10: Yeah, that's Raymond's idea of a name. 310 00:17:59,756 --> 00:18:01,996 Speaker 3: He wouldn't write his music down. He'd just play it 311 00:18:02,036 --> 00:18:04,116 Speaker 3: at the piano for his quintet and then have them 312 00:18:04,116 --> 00:18:05,996 Speaker 3: play their parts back till they could do it right 313 00:18:06,556 --> 00:18:07,436 Speaker 3: note for note. 314 00:18:07,636 --> 00:18:10,036 Speaker 13: And they called the pillow that marvel field of memories. 315 00:18:10,116 --> 00:18:12,396 Speaker 13: They never to get a composition Wednesday've. 316 00:18:11,996 --> 00:18:14,996 Speaker 3: Done it once they had it down, It rarely changed 317 00:18:15,316 --> 00:18:17,996 Speaker 3: and that was just how Scott wanted it. If he 318 00:18:18,036 --> 00:18:20,516 Speaker 3: could have replaced each of his musicians' minds with a 319 00:18:20,556 --> 00:18:22,796 Speaker 3: scroll of music, he probably would have. 320 00:18:23,396 --> 00:18:27,596 Speaker 9: He didn't know how to handle human relationships too well. 321 00:18:27,996 --> 00:18:32,596 Speaker 5: They called him a bully, they called him something, he's bastard. 322 00:18:32,956 --> 00:18:35,436 Speaker 4: They called him all kinds of names because he was 323 00:18:35,636 --> 00:18:38,796 Speaker 4: trying to make them play better. One of his musicians 324 00:18:38,916 --> 00:18:42,876 Speaker 4: once said, nobody worked with Raymond. Everybody worked under Raymond. 325 00:18:42,956 --> 00:18:45,596 Speaker 5: Johnny Williams, the drummer, said we were we We hated 326 00:18:45,636 --> 00:18:47,396 Speaker 5: every minute of it because we were being told what 327 00:18:47,516 --> 00:18:49,876 Speaker 5: to play. He said, at the same time that we 328 00:18:49,916 --> 00:18:52,396 Speaker 5: hated it, we were making more money than anybody in town. 329 00:18:53,276 --> 00:18:56,156 Speaker 3: The music was like jazz, but without the improvisation or 330 00:18:56,196 --> 00:19:00,556 Speaker 3: the looseness. Tightly managed the price of mechanical perfection. 331 00:19:01,076 --> 00:19:06,596 Speaker 5: Well, he rehearsed, I want to cut that price, and 332 00:19:06,636 --> 00:19:08,756 Speaker 5: he rehearsed keep on again. 333 00:19:08,916 --> 00:19:12,076 Speaker 13: Thee from getting accocated by saying, temple to do it 334 00:19:12,116 --> 00:19:13,236 Speaker 13: that way without thinking about it. 335 00:19:13,196 --> 00:19:16,076 Speaker 5: And he was driving his musicians crazy because they would say, 336 00:19:16,316 --> 00:19:18,356 Speaker 5: nobody needs to rehearse this much. 337 00:19:21,476 --> 00:19:25,236 Speaker 3: Scott held his musicians to an impossible standard. He wanted 338 00:19:25,236 --> 00:19:28,556 Speaker 3: them to play like machines, but it's hard to argue 339 00:19:28,556 --> 00:19:33,316 Speaker 3: with the results. His rise was stratospheric. Stravinsky, Cab Calloway 340 00:19:33,396 --> 00:19:36,636 Speaker 3: Duke Ellington. They were all Raymond Scott fans. In the 341 00:19:36,716 --> 00:19:39,956 Speaker 3: nineteen forties he had his own radio show, The Raymond 342 00:19:39,956 --> 00:19:43,516 Speaker 3: Scott Show. He became the music director of CBS Radio, 343 00:19:44,036 --> 00:19:47,916 Speaker 3: where he led a racially integrated radio orchestra. This, I 344 00:19:47,916 --> 00:19:51,476 Speaker 3: think not because he was especially progressive, but because all 345 00:19:51,476 --> 00:19:52,956 Speaker 3: he cared about was the music. 346 00:19:53,796 --> 00:19:56,116 Speaker 4: This is in so many ways explains why he was 347 00:19:56,156 --> 00:19:57,956 Speaker 4: working with machines late in life. 348 00:19:58,236 --> 00:20:00,716 Speaker 9: Oh yeah, he was his best friend. 349 00:20:01,596 --> 00:20:05,076 Speaker 3: The machines were his best friends. To me, when I 350 00:20:05,116 --> 00:20:07,836 Speaker 3: heard this story, I kept thinking about Scott as a 351 00:20:07,916 --> 00:20:11,476 Speaker 3: kid at the player piano. When that machine was invented, 352 00:20:11,716 --> 00:20:15,236 Speaker 3: it scared people. Two years before Raymond Scott was born, 353 00:20:15,516 --> 00:20:19,036 Speaker 3: John Phillips Sussa, the famous composer, wrote an essay called 354 00:20:19,276 --> 00:20:22,716 Speaker 3: the Menace of Mechanical Music. The whole course of music 355 00:20:22,796 --> 00:20:25,716 Speaker 3: has been the expression of soul, states he wrote. And 356 00:20:25,756 --> 00:20:28,396 Speaker 3: now in this twentieth century come these talking and playing 357 00:20:28,436 --> 00:20:34,116 Speaker 3: machines to reduce the expression to a mathematical system of megaphones, wheels, cogs, discs, 358 00:20:34,156 --> 00:20:38,356 Speaker 3: cylinders in all manner of revolving things. The player piano 359 00:20:38,476 --> 00:20:41,756 Speaker 3: became a dark symbol of modern life. When Kurt Vonnegut 360 00:20:41,796 --> 00:20:44,796 Speaker 3: wrote his first novel about a dystopian America run by 361 00:20:44,836 --> 00:20:48,236 Speaker 3: engineers in their automatic machinery. He called it Player Piano. 362 00:20:50,556 --> 00:20:53,396 Speaker 3: By the time Raymond Scott was getting famous, those fears 363 00:20:53,396 --> 00:20:57,516 Speaker 3: about mechanical music were everywhere, same story. 364 00:20:57,556 --> 00:21:04,476 Speaker 11: Everywhere, new machines, high speed production. Few are jobs, and 365 00:21:04,636 --> 00:21:06,836 Speaker 11: ten men for every job it can be had. 366 00:21:07,556 --> 00:21:12,436 Speaker 3: Scott was fighting a classic back mechanical perfection against human error. 367 00:21:12,956 --> 00:21:16,836 Speaker 3: What was at stake were free will agency the human soul. 368 00:21:17,796 --> 00:21:20,396 Speaker 3: That conflict was one of the main rhythms of twentieth 369 00:21:20,436 --> 00:21:23,956 Speaker 3: century history, and Scott was like a leading melody and 370 00:21:24,036 --> 00:21:29,316 Speaker 3: then he hit a wrong note that story. After the 371 00:21:29,356 --> 00:21:37,076 Speaker 3: break in the nineteen forties, Raymond Scott was properly famous. 372 00:21:37,676 --> 00:21:39,596 Speaker 3: He and his wife Pearl, packed up their kids at 373 00:21:39,596 --> 00:21:42,436 Speaker 3: his equipment and moved to a big house out in Tuckaho, 374 00:21:42,556 --> 00:21:42,956 Speaker 3: New York. 375 00:21:43,436 --> 00:21:46,196 Speaker 9: He had a mindful apartment and said he fully moved 376 00:21:46,236 --> 00:21:50,156 Speaker 9: from there. Of course, he was a ham radio operator. 377 00:21:50,876 --> 00:21:53,076 Speaker 9: He wanted to be where he'd have good reception. 378 00:21:53,876 --> 00:21:56,396 Speaker 3: I kind of love that he finally had enough money 379 00:21:56,396 --> 00:21:58,516 Speaker 3: to buy a big house. But actually the only reason 380 00:21:58,516 --> 00:22:00,316 Speaker 3: he was moving out of the city was so that 381 00:22:00,356 --> 00:22:03,876 Speaker 3: he could have better ham radio reception. He was tinkering 382 00:22:03,916 --> 00:22:07,636 Speaker 3: with his machines again, not just microphones in high fi equipment, 383 00:22:07,756 --> 00:22:11,116 Speaker 3: but new sorts of instruments. The problem was electronics was 384 00:22:11,156 --> 00:22:13,636 Speaker 3: not a casual hobby. In the late nineteen thirties and 385 00:22:13,676 --> 00:22:14,876 Speaker 3: early forties. 386 00:22:15,116 --> 00:22:17,836 Speaker 2: He saw an electronic parts catalog and he wanted to 387 00:22:17,956 --> 00:22:19,636 Speaker 2: order every part in the catalog. 388 00:22:20,396 --> 00:22:24,036 Speaker 3: Stan Warno is Raymond Scott and Pearl's Imni Winter's son. 389 00:22:24,676 --> 00:22:28,316 Speaker 3: He made a great documentary about his father called Deconstructing Dad. 390 00:22:28,716 --> 00:22:30,316 Speaker 3: I visited him last winter. 391 00:22:30,476 --> 00:22:32,036 Speaker 2: And he thought, the only way he's going to make 392 00:22:32,116 --> 00:22:34,996 Speaker 2: enough money to do that is to form a big band. 393 00:22:35,356 --> 00:22:37,036 Speaker 2: And so he did form a big band and went 394 00:22:37,076 --> 00:22:37,756 Speaker 2: out on the road. 395 00:22:40,436 --> 00:22:43,516 Speaker 11: It's more thirty in New York and time for CBS 396 00:22:43,516 --> 00:22:46,956 Speaker 11: to present the Raymond Scott Show across the continent and 397 00:22:47,036 --> 00:22:50,316 Speaker 11: later to the whole world by shortwave come song Hits 398 00:22:50,316 --> 00:22:53,996 Speaker 11: of the Day, starring America's number one composer with a band. 399 00:22:54,356 --> 00:22:56,116 Speaker 11: Here he is Raymond Scott. 400 00:22:58,156 --> 00:23:00,556 Speaker 3: In the nineteen thirties, Scott's hits seem to have been 401 00:23:00,596 --> 00:23:04,116 Speaker 3: about the music first, but in the forties his focus 402 00:23:04,116 --> 00:23:07,076 Speaker 3: seems to have shifted from writing great songs to making 403 00:23:07,116 --> 00:23:09,676 Speaker 3: as much money from his music as possible so he 404 00:23:09,716 --> 00:23:12,836 Speaker 3: could fuel his mechanical hobby. He was like his own 405 00:23:12,916 --> 00:23:15,876 Speaker 3: version of his dad's music shop. Music sold any way 406 00:23:15,916 --> 00:23:19,196 Speaker 3: you like. But a big band needed a singer. He 407 00:23:19,276 --> 00:23:21,836 Speaker 3: was always churning through them, always on the lookout for 408 00:23:21,916 --> 00:23:25,956 Speaker 3: someone perfect. And that's how he met Marjorie Chandler. 409 00:23:26,716 --> 00:23:30,756 Speaker 9: We went in Chicago and we took an apartment there. 410 00:23:31,756 --> 00:23:34,116 Speaker 3: Scott heard through one of the band's managers that there 411 00:23:34,116 --> 00:23:36,716 Speaker 3: was a young girl from Canada he should meet. She'd 412 00:23:36,756 --> 00:23:39,556 Speaker 3: sung in a big radio contest in one first place. 413 00:23:40,116 --> 00:23:42,756 Speaker 3: She was about thirteen years old and her voice was amazing. 414 00:23:43,516 --> 00:23:46,996 Speaker 3: Scott decided to take her on as a student full time. 415 00:23:47,756 --> 00:23:53,716 Speaker 2: He thought she had real potential, and so she came 416 00:23:53,876 --> 00:23:55,196 Speaker 2: to live with us. 417 00:23:55,836 --> 00:23:58,916 Speaker 3: Marjorie's family sent her to live at the house in Tuckahoe. 418 00:23:59,236 --> 00:24:02,356 Speaker 3: According to Pearl, she and Scott were like surrogate parents, 419 00:24:02,836 --> 00:24:07,516 Speaker 3: except Scott and Marjorie spent endless hours practicing. It was 420 00:24:07,596 --> 00:24:11,316 Speaker 3: like with his quintet, except Chandler was a kid away 421 00:24:11,316 --> 00:24:14,756 Speaker 3: from her parents. This tape is likely from later on, 422 00:24:15,316 --> 00:24:29,916 Speaker 3: but even then you can hear how exacting he isles guys, you. 423 00:24:29,956 --> 00:24:30,796 Speaker 9: Think the. 424 00:24:35,196 --> 00:24:39,516 Speaker 3: Scott gave her a new name, Dorothy Collins. She'd go 425 00:24:39,556 --> 00:24:42,316 Speaker 3: to school, she'd wander around the big House and write 426 00:24:42,316 --> 00:24:46,436 Speaker 3: her name Marjorie over and over again. Then she'd go 427 00:24:46,516 --> 00:24:56,916 Speaker 3: back to practicing love. It was a backbreaking regimen, but 428 00:24:56,996 --> 00:24:58,716 Speaker 3: she was an incredible talent. 429 00:24:59,636 --> 00:25:04,356 Speaker 2: And as she got older and better she be he 430 00:25:04,476 --> 00:25:06,796 Speaker 2: began featuring her in his band. 431 00:25:07,876 --> 00:25:10,356 Speaker 3: She grew up with the family. When she was a 432 00:25:10,356 --> 00:25:12,396 Speaker 3: bit older, she sang with the band for the first 433 00:25:12,436 --> 00:25:15,796 Speaker 3: time on the air. After Scott started hosting The Lucky 434 00:25:15,796 --> 00:25:19,076 Speaker 3: Strike Hit Parade, a popular TV show, she became the 435 00:25:19,116 --> 00:25:22,876 Speaker 3: featured singer. She was twenty four, and at some point 436 00:25:22,916 --> 00:25:25,276 Speaker 3: along the way they got romantically involved. 437 00:25:25,956 --> 00:25:29,156 Speaker 2: And then I have seen some letters where my mother 438 00:25:29,396 --> 00:25:33,396 Speaker 2: was writing to him saying it's really I'm not really 439 00:25:33,436 --> 00:25:36,036 Speaker 2: comfortable with her, and who knows what was going on, 440 00:25:36,236 --> 00:25:40,996 Speaker 2: because again that they eventually got involved with each other 441 00:25:41,316 --> 00:25:45,036 Speaker 2: and he divorced my mom and married her. 442 00:25:46,236 --> 00:25:49,596 Speaker 3: Scott and Marjorie now Dorothy Collins, were married when she 443 00:25:49,676 --> 00:25:52,996 Speaker 3: was twenty five. I don't want to dramatize this or 444 00:25:53,036 --> 00:25:55,956 Speaker 3: speculate on how and when they got together, because no 445 00:25:55,956 --> 00:25:58,796 Speaker 3: matter what, it's a dark turn. She had been like 446 00:25:58,836 --> 00:26:01,996 Speaker 3: an adopted daughter to them, away from her own parents. 447 00:26:02,476 --> 00:26:05,436 Speaker 3: It was the culmination, I think of the most dangerous 448 00:26:05,436 --> 00:26:09,396 Speaker 3: strain in Scott's thinking about musicians and people must have 449 00:26:09,476 --> 00:26:13,036 Speaker 3: seen in Marjorie Chandler. In the beginning. Was Dorothy Collins 450 00:26:13,836 --> 00:26:17,196 Speaker 3: the chance to make his own musician, his own person, 451 00:26:17,996 --> 00:26:24,356 Speaker 3: as if he were building a machine. Every week they 452 00:26:24,356 --> 00:26:28,436 Speaker 3: appeared on TV together, Collins became a kind of American darling, 453 00:26:28,916 --> 00:26:31,916 Speaker 3: achieving a level of celebrity even Scott had never had 454 00:26:32,356 --> 00:26:36,836 Speaker 3: a star. The money came pouring in. They moved into 455 00:26:36,876 --> 00:26:38,276 Speaker 3: a mansion on Long Island. 456 00:26:39,316 --> 00:26:42,356 Speaker 7: It had thirty two rooms and four stories. 457 00:26:43,556 --> 00:26:48,676 Speaker 3: That's deb Studebaker, Raymond Scott and Dorothy Collins's daughter. She's 458 00:26:48,716 --> 00:26:51,196 Speaker 3: a teacher and a poet, which you can hear by 459 00:26:51,236 --> 00:26:52,956 Speaker 3: the way she describes her childhood home. 460 00:26:54,636 --> 00:26:57,276 Speaker 7: The house was at the end of a long gravel driveway. 461 00:26:58,196 --> 00:27:02,836 Speaker 7: It had had a forest behind. It was very grand. 462 00:27:03,596 --> 00:27:08,316 Speaker 7: There was a library with a secret door you pull 463 00:27:08,356 --> 00:27:10,916 Speaker 7: it out. There was a through behind it. We would 464 00:27:10,916 --> 00:27:15,636 Speaker 7: go on these explorations in the forest. There was wisteria 465 00:27:15,876 --> 00:27:20,156 Speaker 7: hanging over an archway that was always filled with bees. 466 00:27:21,356 --> 00:27:24,316 Speaker 3: Inside the house, Scott had begun to amass all the 467 00:27:24,356 --> 00:27:27,756 Speaker 3: electronic parts he wanted. He was at once secretive and 468 00:27:27,876 --> 00:27:28,836 Speaker 3: proud to show it off. 469 00:27:29,716 --> 00:27:32,596 Speaker 8: Let me take you downstairs and show you these technical facilities, 470 00:27:32,876 --> 00:27:36,636 Speaker 8: and I take it we're supposed to have, oh maybe 471 00:27:36,636 --> 00:27:39,156 Speaker 8: a half a million separate items or so. An electronic 472 00:27:39,236 --> 00:27:42,036 Speaker 8: music studio wants to grow and grow and grow and grow. 473 00:27:42,716 --> 00:27:46,916 Speaker 3: The room was full of gear, switches, meters, welders, a furnace. 474 00:27:47,476 --> 00:27:48,156 Speaker 13: But now I'd like. 475 00:27:48,156 --> 00:27:50,476 Speaker 8: To take upstairs to show you what we've been building 476 00:27:50,716 --> 00:27:51,636 Speaker 8: with all this equipment. 477 00:27:53,236 --> 00:27:57,716 Speaker 3: Upstairs was a thirty foot wall of obscure electronic musical machinery. 478 00:27:58,556 --> 00:28:01,516 Speaker 3: Alongside his other musical work, Scott had begun writing and 479 00:28:01,556 --> 00:28:06,996 Speaker 3: recording music for commercials. I have for several months now 480 00:28:07,116 --> 00:28:09,236 Speaker 3: been unable to get this jingle for Sprite out of 481 00:28:09,316 --> 00:28:12,316 Speaker 3: my head. Over the course of the nineteen fifties, Scott 482 00:28:12,316 --> 00:28:16,396 Speaker 3: wrote jingles for a lot of big companies schlitzpier RCA, Victor, 483 00:28:16,596 --> 00:28:19,836 Speaker 3: vix Ford, Chrysler, and a lot of the time it 484 00:28:19,876 --> 00:28:22,836 Speaker 3: was Dorothy Collins singing them. He had a plaque over 485 00:28:22,876 --> 00:28:25,916 Speaker 3: his piano that read, ideally the words should make sense, 486 00:28:26,596 --> 00:28:30,036 Speaker 3: what makes and Nolan bout dance a melon ballads and 487 00:28:30,156 --> 00:28:30,876 Speaker 3: then bout. 488 00:28:30,756 --> 00:28:34,036 Speaker 11: Dance what makes and Nolan bout dance the ice. 489 00:28:33,996 --> 00:28:35,076 Speaker 9: Dart past the Fight. 490 00:28:36,196 --> 00:28:39,076 Speaker 3: These companies were selling the future, and they needed a 491 00:28:39,156 --> 00:28:42,676 Speaker 3: sound to match it. In the nineteen fifties, Americans were 492 00:28:42,756 --> 00:28:46,036 Speaker 3: drunk on the post war promise of consumer technology. It 493 00:28:46,156 --> 00:28:48,716 Speaker 3: was the age of automatic, of being able to buy 494 00:28:48,836 --> 00:28:52,516 Speaker 3: all sorts of machines that would make your life easier, to. 495 00:28:52,556 --> 00:28:54,396 Speaker 8: Make reality of imagination. 496 00:28:55,796 --> 00:28:58,556 Speaker 9: This is Bendix the Tomorrow People. 497 00:29:01,796 --> 00:29:03,796 Speaker 3: Scott and Collins seemed at the time to have a 498 00:29:03,876 --> 00:29:07,156 Speaker 3: happy life together as the Tomorrow People, throwing parties at 499 00:29:07,156 --> 00:29:10,156 Speaker 3: their mansion, making music in the machine rooms, and listening 500 00:29:10,156 --> 00:29:12,556 Speaker 3: to it in the listening room. They were, in many 501 00:29:12,596 --> 00:29:15,476 Speaker 3: ways the sound of that post war dream world. They 502 00:29:15,516 --> 00:29:18,396 Speaker 3: made music meant to push the button that sent consumers 503 00:29:18,436 --> 00:29:21,956 Speaker 3: marching off to make a purchase. During those years, Scott 504 00:29:21,996 --> 00:29:24,236 Speaker 3: was creating the kinds of machines. His music helped to 505 00:29:24,276 --> 00:29:27,596 Speaker 3: sell whirling spinning devices that seemed as if they came 506 00:29:27,636 --> 00:29:30,436 Speaker 3: from the future. Just keep in mind how different what 507 00:29:30,476 --> 00:29:33,436 Speaker 3: you're hearing is from popular music in the fifties. I mean, 508 00:29:33,716 --> 00:29:36,116 Speaker 3: this was the top song of nineteen fifty nine. 509 00:29:37,036 --> 00:29:39,716 Speaker 4: I come send the British cap a company. There wasn't 510 00:29:39,836 --> 00:29:40,916 Speaker 4: as many as there was. 511 00:29:40,916 --> 00:29:44,396 Speaker 5: Obamaga refired once more and they began to run it 512 00:29:44,756 --> 00:29:46,916 Speaker 5: down to Mississippi, to the Gulf of Mexico. 513 00:29:49,956 --> 00:29:52,996 Speaker 3: Music like Scott's just didn't exist in the mainstream, but 514 00:29:53,076 --> 00:29:56,396 Speaker 3: he was sneaking it in there through commercials. He saw 515 00:29:56,396 --> 00:29:58,836 Speaker 3: his machines as a way to push the envelope and 516 00:29:58,916 --> 00:30:01,516 Speaker 3: thought that because the sounds they made were new, they'd 517 00:30:01,516 --> 00:30:04,556 Speaker 3: catch the ear and away jingles made with old instruments couldn't. 518 00:30:05,836 --> 00:30:08,036 Speaker 3: Scott seems to have created one of the first, if 519 00:30:08,036 --> 00:30:11,156 Speaker 3: not the first, musical sequencer, a device that is the 520 00:30:11,156 --> 00:30:15,316 Speaker 3: foundation for much of modern pop. In a weird historical twist, 521 00:30:15,516 --> 00:30:18,236 Speaker 3: one of the ways he had financed all this experimentation 522 00:30:18,596 --> 00:30:21,116 Speaker 3: was by selling his early hits to Warner Brothers, where 523 00:30:21,156 --> 00:30:24,996 Speaker 3: they became a lot of the music soundtracking the Looney Tunes. Literally, 524 00:30:25,036 --> 00:30:30,436 Speaker 3: this man put the tunes in Looney Tunes. But then 525 00:30:30,436 --> 00:30:33,476 Speaker 3: he started to get sick. His brother and his father 526 00:30:33,596 --> 00:30:36,316 Speaker 3: had died of heart disease, and Scott had his first 527 00:30:36,316 --> 00:30:39,756 Speaker 3: heart attack in nineteen fifty eight. I don't think it's 528 00:30:39,796 --> 00:30:43,036 Speaker 3: a coincidence that within a year, he began to work 529 00:30:43,156 --> 00:30:47,996 Speaker 3: on the first version of the Electronium, his songwriting machine. 530 00:30:49,076 --> 00:30:52,796 Speaker 2: I remember him telling me, you know about this machine. 531 00:30:53,036 --> 00:30:55,956 Speaker 2: I'm working on a machine that's going to compose and 532 00:30:56,076 --> 00:30:57,636 Speaker 2: perform at the same time. 533 00:30:58,396 --> 00:31:01,356 Speaker 3: This was the stuff of science fiction, a dream of 534 00:31:01,396 --> 00:31:04,316 Speaker 3: few people had had, but nobody went for it quite 535 00:31:04,356 --> 00:31:07,716 Speaker 3: like Scott. A machine not just for playing music, but 536 00:31:07,756 --> 00:31:11,956 Speaker 3: for composing it. Scott began to work harder and harder 537 00:31:12,036 --> 00:31:15,156 Speaker 3: on the machine, and at the same time his marriage 538 00:31:15,196 --> 00:31:16,956 Speaker 3: to Dorothy Collins unraveled. 539 00:31:17,716 --> 00:31:21,756 Speaker 7: She discovered that she loved acting in the theater, and 540 00:31:21,996 --> 00:31:25,516 Speaker 7: my dad didn't travel with her or us. He was 541 00:31:25,556 --> 00:31:28,876 Speaker 7: always working on his own stuff. But I think there 542 00:31:28,956 --> 00:31:31,476 Speaker 7: was a certain lightness. I think that she probably found 543 00:31:31,676 --> 00:31:37,236 Speaker 7: being respected now, you know, for something new that was hers. 544 00:31:37,476 --> 00:31:39,756 Speaker 7: Acting was hers. He had nothing to do with that. 545 00:31:41,276 --> 00:31:44,876 Speaker 3: Collins left and then they were divorced. She testified in 546 00:31:44,956 --> 00:31:48,956 Speaker 3: court that he was such a perfectionist, so intensely critical, 547 00:31:49,356 --> 00:31:52,116 Speaker 3: that he gave her asthma and she couldn't sing when 548 00:31:52,116 --> 00:31:52,756 Speaker 3: he was around. 549 00:31:53,796 --> 00:31:56,996 Speaker 7: So my mother used to say it was like Frankenstein's Monster, 550 00:31:57,156 --> 00:32:00,596 Speaker 7: and the monster kind of woke up and decided, you 551 00:32:00,636 --> 00:32:03,876 Speaker 7: know that she could be her own person. 552 00:32:04,756 --> 00:32:08,036 Speaker 2: But Scott was bereft, and he took a bunch of 553 00:32:08,196 --> 00:32:11,996 Speaker 2: sleeping pills, thinking he was going to kill himself, but 554 00:32:12,076 --> 00:32:13,836 Speaker 2: he just went to sleep for a long time. 555 00:32:15,356 --> 00:32:18,356 Speaker 3: He moved out of the house into an industrial space 556 00:32:18,556 --> 00:32:22,036 Speaker 3: in a big office park on Long Island. His TV 557 00:32:22,116 --> 00:32:24,916 Speaker 3: show was off the air, he didn't have a hip 558 00:32:24,996 --> 00:32:29,076 Speaker 3: band anymore, and he was alone. But he had one 559 00:32:29,236 --> 00:32:46,116 Speaker 3: thing left, the electronium. 560 00:32:46,236 --> 00:32:50,076 Speaker 2: I have very clear memories of being out there and 561 00:32:50,156 --> 00:32:55,276 Speaker 2: the electronium was in the very next room, iterating away, 562 00:32:55,396 --> 00:32:57,396 Speaker 2: which is what it did. You had to kind of 563 00:32:57,876 --> 00:33:00,116 Speaker 2: set it up and then it would go through these 564 00:33:00,156 --> 00:33:03,716 Speaker 2: iterations and we would be listening to it, and he 565 00:33:03,756 --> 00:33:06,196 Speaker 2: would hear something he really liked and he'd jump up 566 00:33:06,236 --> 00:33:09,596 Speaker 2: and go in there and record it on the cassette. 567 00:33:09,716 --> 00:33:13,396 Speaker 3: In the nineteen sixties, Raymond Scott was living in a long, low, 568 00:33:13,436 --> 00:33:16,516 Speaker 3: white cement warehouse surrounded by machines. 569 00:33:17,676 --> 00:33:20,156 Speaker 12: He had to seriously downgrade his life. 570 00:33:20,636 --> 00:33:23,836 Speaker 3: Jeff Winner, he works with Choose It, that radio DJ 571 00:33:23,916 --> 00:33:26,956 Speaker 3: who went out to visit Scott and together with Scott's family, 572 00:33:27,116 --> 00:33:29,836 Speaker 3: they're preserving, managing and sharing his archives. 573 00:33:30,276 --> 00:33:34,956 Speaker 14: He went from a massive mansion of his own design 574 00:33:35,516 --> 00:33:38,236 Speaker 14: to living on Long Island in a warehouse that wasn't 575 00:33:38,276 --> 00:33:41,716 Speaker 14: even zoned for residential, that didn't have a kitchen. 576 00:33:42,236 --> 00:33:43,956 Speaker 12: He was not supposed to be living there. 577 00:33:44,756 --> 00:33:47,516 Speaker 3: He'd gotten married for the third time, to a woman 578 00:33:47,716 --> 00:33:51,436 Speaker 3: named Mitzi Curtis, and this time it stuck. But money 579 00:33:51,516 --> 00:33:55,316 Speaker 3: was tight, popular music was moving on. He was still 580 00:33:55,316 --> 00:33:59,036 Speaker 3: composing the occasional jingle, but now really it was all 581 00:33:59,156 --> 00:34:03,396 Speaker 3: machines and not just in his warehouse. The concern over 582 00:34:03,436 --> 00:34:06,676 Speaker 3: automation was reaching a fever pitch in the United States. 583 00:34:07,276 --> 00:34:10,516 Speaker 3: In nineteen sixty John F. Kennedy even ran for president 584 00:34:10,596 --> 00:34:13,156 Speaker 3: against the machine threat. 585 00:34:12,676 --> 00:34:15,356 Speaker 11: Because the problem that West Virginia is facing is the 586 00:34:15,396 --> 00:34:17,236 Speaker 11: problem that all America is going to face. 587 00:34:17,796 --> 00:34:20,436 Speaker 15: That is the problem of what happens to man when 588 00:34:20,516 --> 00:34:21,756 Speaker 15: machines take their place. 589 00:34:23,116 --> 00:34:26,196 Speaker 3: Meanwhile, Raymond Scott seems to have been trying to replace 590 00:34:26,276 --> 00:34:28,636 Speaker 3: as much of himself as possible with the machine. 591 00:34:29,516 --> 00:34:32,836 Speaker 14: Everything he had ever done up until that point, in 592 00:34:32,876 --> 00:34:36,316 Speaker 14: one way or another, would become part of Electronium, even 593 00:34:36,316 --> 00:34:39,196 Speaker 14: if he hadn't even declared to himself that that was 594 00:34:39,236 --> 00:34:39,636 Speaker 14: his goal. 595 00:34:39,716 --> 00:34:42,396 Speaker 12: Yet it's like everything's under that one roof. 596 00:34:43,116 --> 00:34:47,156 Speaker 3: His baseline generator his drum pattern generator, the melody sequencer, 597 00:34:47,756 --> 00:34:50,876 Speaker 3: all of it tied together with thick wires hidden behind 598 00:34:50,876 --> 00:34:52,476 Speaker 3: the concrete walls of the factory. 599 00:34:53,436 --> 00:34:58,796 Speaker 15: And when Raymond came to the door, the first thing 600 00:34:58,996 --> 00:35:02,716 Speaker 15: I encountered was, well, I want you to write sign 601 00:35:02,836 --> 00:35:05,676 Speaker 15: this disclosure agreement. 602 00:35:06,356 --> 00:35:08,636 Speaker 3: Tom ray He used to work at Mogue, probably the 603 00:35:08,636 --> 00:35:11,756 Speaker 3: most famos misynthesizer company of all time. He's taught in 604 00:35:11,756 --> 00:35:14,396 Speaker 3: electronic music history at the Berkeley College of Music, where 605 00:35:14,436 --> 00:35:16,676 Speaker 3: he was a professor. But at the time he met 606 00:35:16,716 --> 00:35:18,956 Speaker 3: Scott in the summer of nineteen seventy, he was a 607 00:35:18,996 --> 00:35:22,756 Speaker 3: graduate student working on his dissertation for a PhD in music. 608 00:35:23,476 --> 00:35:27,716 Speaker 15: I mean, I'm not an industrial spy. I'm a graduate student. 609 00:35:28,636 --> 00:35:31,436 Speaker 3: Ray had heard that Scott was touched with genius, and 610 00:35:31,476 --> 00:35:33,156 Speaker 3: he wanted to see what he'd been inventing. 611 00:35:33,716 --> 00:35:36,876 Speaker 15: What did I see? I saw everything. Oh my gosh, 612 00:35:36,876 --> 00:35:40,116 Speaker 15: you know, what is this thing over here? And I said, 613 00:35:40,476 --> 00:35:42,676 Speaker 15: doesn't seem to have a keyboard or any kind of 614 00:35:42,716 --> 00:35:46,796 Speaker 15: an interface. He said, well, it does. It had one 615 00:35:46,836 --> 00:35:50,916 Speaker 15: little micro switch, and so he goes over and he 616 00:35:50,956 --> 00:35:55,116 Speaker 15: flips some of these many many knobs and switches and 617 00:35:55,196 --> 00:35:58,636 Speaker 15: things on the panel. Of the thing, said I'm going 618 00:35:58,716 --> 00:36:01,716 Speaker 15: to have it suggest a theme, and it gives out 619 00:36:01,756 --> 00:36:04,716 Speaker 15: with a little melody, and then he says, uh, I 620 00:36:04,756 --> 00:36:07,516 Speaker 15: think I will ask it to make the intervals, the 621 00:36:08,116 --> 00:36:11,836 Speaker 15: musical intervals wider, and he flips a couple of switches 622 00:36:11,876 --> 00:36:17,076 Speaker 15: and they're wider, you know, And he put together, as 623 00:36:17,116 --> 00:36:25,596 Speaker 15: I sat there, a rather lush uh composition with not 624 00:36:25,676 --> 00:36:29,316 Speaker 15: only accompaniment but counterpoint, and you know, the whole thing. 625 00:36:32,996 --> 00:36:36,956 Speaker 3: Scott was inventing madly during those years. The electronium combined 626 00:36:36,956 --> 00:36:39,156 Speaker 3: a lot of different gizmos he'd created, and it was 627 00:36:39,196 --> 00:36:42,716 Speaker 3: a constantly changing set of modules. You controlled the music 628 00:36:42,756 --> 00:36:45,476 Speaker 3: the machine made by means of switches he called the 629 00:36:45,476 --> 00:36:48,996 Speaker 3: composer guidance control. One of the major X factors of 630 00:36:49,036 --> 00:36:51,276 Speaker 3: the electronium is that it seems to have had some 631 00:36:51,356 --> 00:36:54,876 Speaker 3: way of generating randomness within the preset patterns. They would 632 00:36:54,956 --> 00:36:57,476 Speaker 3: change on their own over time. But it's not clear 633 00:36:57,476 --> 00:37:01,156 Speaker 3: to anyone how this was a crazy idea. But you 634 00:37:01,196 --> 00:37:03,476 Speaker 3: can get a clue to why Scott was after it 635 00:37:03,516 --> 00:37:05,916 Speaker 3: from an ad he made around then with Jim Henson, 636 00:37:06,156 --> 00:37:10,316 Speaker 3: the Muppets guy for IBM. They were pitching new word processor, 637 00:37:10,716 --> 00:37:13,356 Speaker 3: but the ad is all about modern life. It's a 638 00:37:13,436 --> 00:37:18,316 Speaker 3: kind of crazy montage of vacant looking people, machines and explosions. 639 00:37:18,876 --> 00:37:22,516 Speaker 7: There always seemed to be enough time to do the paperwork. 640 00:37:23,076 --> 00:37:26,116 Speaker 7: What today there is today? 641 00:37:26,276 --> 00:37:27,676 Speaker 4: There isn't enough time. 642 00:37:27,796 --> 00:37:29,596 Speaker 3: Today, there aren't enough people. 643 00:37:29,796 --> 00:37:33,556 Speaker 7: Machines should do the work, that's what their best bet. 644 00:37:33,596 --> 00:37:34,876 Speaker 12: People should do the thinking. 645 00:37:35,356 --> 00:37:36,716 Speaker 15: That's what their best bet. 646 00:37:37,236 --> 00:37:39,396 Speaker 3: But what about a machine that did the work and 647 00:37:39,476 --> 00:37:43,036 Speaker 3: the thinking. When Scott was born, machines were being created 648 00:37:43,116 --> 00:37:46,276 Speaker 3: mostly to help people do roat physical labor. In the 649 00:37:46,276 --> 00:37:48,756 Speaker 3: first half of the twentieth century, they began to do 650 00:37:48,796 --> 00:37:52,076 Speaker 3: those things automatically at the push of a button, and 651 00:37:52,116 --> 00:37:55,716 Speaker 3: by the age of the electronium, machines began automatically to 652 00:37:55,796 --> 00:37:58,756 Speaker 3: do things that looked a lot like intellectual labor. 653 00:38:00,436 --> 00:38:03,356 Speaker 6: This rulebot manipulator can be easily taught because of its 654 00:38:03,396 --> 00:38:04,316 Speaker 6: electronic brains. 655 00:38:05,556 --> 00:38:08,916 Speaker 3: Can this type of control be applied to other types 656 00:38:08,956 --> 00:38:13,596 Speaker 3: of machines? Certainly in that light, Scott was reaching for 657 00:38:13,636 --> 00:38:17,996 Speaker 3: the brass ring, a machine capable of making art, of 658 00:38:18,036 --> 00:38:21,276 Speaker 3: helping people make art that expressed a human soul and 659 00:38:21,356 --> 00:38:24,756 Speaker 3: stirred human emotions. But he needed money to do it, 660 00:38:25,276 --> 00:38:28,276 Speaker 3: so he started doing a little press, small articles here 661 00:38:28,316 --> 00:38:31,796 Speaker 3: and there. It's like inventing the typewriter, he told a journalist. 662 00:38:32,116 --> 00:38:35,716 Speaker 3: Only the typewriter furnishes the plot and reads the result. 663 00:38:36,076 --> 00:38:40,476 Speaker 15: I've always told people that I consider Raymond Scott one 664 00:38:40,476 --> 00:38:43,316 Speaker 15: of the pioneers of artificial intelligence and music. 665 00:38:43,876 --> 00:38:46,556 Speaker 3: But if you wanted to buy an electronium from Raymond Scott, 666 00:38:46,716 --> 00:38:48,396 Speaker 3: it was going to cost you an arm and a leg, 667 00:38:49,116 --> 00:38:51,676 Speaker 3: and it was a crazy idea. So it was by 668 00:38:51,676 --> 00:38:54,396 Speaker 3: a stroke of luck that the head of Motown Records, 669 00:38:54,636 --> 00:38:56,956 Speaker 3: Barry Gordy, heard about it. 670 00:38:56,956 --> 00:38:58,716 Speaker 4: It was not a one man organization or a two 671 00:38:58,716 --> 00:39:01,996 Speaker 4: man organization, but it is an organization of teamwork, you know. 672 00:39:02,116 --> 00:39:04,676 Speaker 9: I mean, it's the unseeing hero, so to speak. 673 00:39:05,356 --> 00:39:09,076 Speaker 3: Barry Gordy founded Motown in nineteen fifty nine in Detroit. 674 00:39:09,636 --> 00:39:12,036 Speaker 3: Before founding the company, he had worked at a car 675 00:39:12,076 --> 00:39:14,556 Speaker 3: factory during the years when there was lots of hubbub 676 00:39:14,596 --> 00:39:17,796 Speaker 3: over plants that had achieved near full automation. It was 677 00:39:17,796 --> 00:39:20,556 Speaker 3: on the assembly line that Gordy started to think about 678 00:39:20,596 --> 00:39:25,276 Speaker 3: doing music differently. In his autobiography, he wrote, at the plant, 679 00:39:25,476 --> 00:39:28,236 Speaker 3: the cars started out as just a frame pulled along 680 00:39:28,276 --> 00:39:30,676 Speaker 3: on conveyor belts until they emerged at the end of 681 00:39:30,716 --> 00:39:33,716 Speaker 3: the line. I wanted the same concept for my company, 682 00:39:34,076 --> 00:39:36,636 Speaker 3: only with artists and songs and records. 683 00:39:37,876 --> 00:39:39,916 Speaker 9: It would it had gone any year without Hit Records, 684 00:39:39,916 --> 00:39:41,396 Speaker 9: we would out of a business. 685 00:39:41,796 --> 00:39:44,756 Speaker 3: Motown was a black owned business selling music by black 686 00:39:44,876 --> 00:39:48,556 Speaker 3: artists to everyone in America. Like everything in the music business, 687 00:39:48,716 --> 00:39:52,556 Speaker 3: it was precarious economically because Hit Records deal in matters 688 00:39:52,596 --> 00:39:56,796 Speaker 3: of taste, and taste is subject to bia sees and whims. Gordy, 689 00:39:56,916 --> 00:39:59,996 Speaker 3: with his assembly line pasted, wasn't having that. He wanted 690 00:40:00,036 --> 00:40:03,676 Speaker 3: to systematize as much as possible. They'd ab test songs 691 00:40:03,676 --> 00:40:06,596 Speaker 3: with different artists until something stuck. Like R and D. 692 00:40:07,116 --> 00:40:10,676 Speaker 3: They had a house band, the Funk Brothers, providing ironclad 693 00:40:10,716 --> 00:40:14,036 Speaker 3: rhythm section arrangements across Motown songs. Is if they were 694 00:40:14,076 --> 00:40:17,996 Speaker 3: the engine department. The only thing missing was the automation. 695 00:40:20,516 --> 00:40:22,676 Speaker 3: And that's why it makes sense to me that one 696 00:40:22,756 --> 00:40:27,116 Speaker 3: day in the early nineteen seventies, Barry Gordy pulled up 697 00:40:27,156 --> 00:40:30,556 Speaker 3: to Raymond Scott's warehouse with a string of limos to 698 00:40:30,636 --> 00:40:33,356 Speaker 3: see the automatic songwriting machine for himself. 699 00:40:33,676 --> 00:40:35,996 Speaker 14: And by the way, Barry Gordy knew who Raymond Scott 700 00:40:36,116 --> 00:40:38,596 Speaker 14: was like anybody of his generation. Raymond Scott was a 701 00:40:38,596 --> 00:40:42,276 Speaker 14: famous person, so Gordy also knew he was getting that 702 00:40:42,556 --> 00:40:45,996 Speaker 14: in the deal, someone who is a musical mind, who 703 00:40:46,156 --> 00:40:47,636 Speaker 14: has already written hits. 704 00:40:48,276 --> 00:40:51,356 Speaker 3: Scott showed Gordy and his crew the warehouse and then 705 00:40:51,396 --> 00:40:53,556 Speaker 3: he fired up the electronium, just like he did with 706 00:40:53,676 --> 00:40:57,476 Speaker 3: ray He must have shown Gordy how you flipped the 707 00:40:57,516 --> 00:41:01,316 Speaker 3: switches to set a pattern, then watched as the machine iterated, 708 00:41:01,556 --> 00:41:06,396 Speaker 3: changing notes, repeating phrases, rifling through ideas semi randomly. 709 00:41:07,276 --> 00:41:10,036 Speaker 13: And during the last couple of moment to Patta, generator 710 00:41:10,276 --> 00:41:14,356 Speaker 13: was only one four or five. 711 00:41:17,436 --> 00:41:20,756 Speaker 3: Scott was selling an idea at that point, the potential 712 00:41:20,836 --> 00:41:23,116 Speaker 3: of a songwriting machine that could hit on, an idea 713 00:41:23,276 --> 00:41:26,076 Speaker 3: that a person alone never would. If it came up 714 00:41:26,116 --> 00:41:28,156 Speaker 3: with a hook that sparked in the way a hit does, 715 00:41:28,596 --> 00:41:30,316 Speaker 3: you'd know it when you heard it, and you could 716 00:41:30,316 --> 00:41:32,556 Speaker 3: bottle it up and sell it to millions of people. 717 00:41:34,596 --> 00:41:39,276 Speaker 3: This idea, I think came straight from Scott's quintetes finding 718 00:41:39,316 --> 00:41:42,276 Speaker 3: that sound that you liked the first time you hear it. 719 00:41:42,276 --> 00:41:44,956 Speaker 3: It's a tricky balancing act because it has to be 720 00:41:45,036 --> 00:41:47,756 Speaker 3: new enough that it catches your attention. But a hit 721 00:41:47,876 --> 00:41:50,196 Speaker 3: also has to sound familiar enough that you kind of 722 00:41:50,236 --> 00:41:51,556 Speaker 3: know what you're going to get as soon as you 723 00:41:51,596 --> 00:41:54,316 Speaker 3: hear it. It's like an elevator pitch to the listener. 724 00:41:54,516 --> 00:41:58,396 Speaker 3: And Gordie was uncompromising about it. Here's Smokey Robinson in 725 00:41:58,436 --> 00:42:01,436 Speaker 3: a twenty nineteen documentary remembering that process. 726 00:42:01,956 --> 00:42:02,956 Speaker 6: You used to say that all tied. 727 00:42:02,956 --> 00:42:04,556 Speaker 3: We got to get him in first ten seconds. 728 00:42:04,636 --> 00:42:06,796 Speaker 9: We had to grab company's fabulous intros. 729 00:42:07,116 --> 00:42:10,116 Speaker 3: You know, something that would get your digit. And so 730 00:42:10,316 --> 00:42:12,796 Speaker 3: in that light, the electronium makes perfect sense to me. 731 00:42:13,396 --> 00:42:15,396 Speaker 3: What if you could take a machine that had baked 732 00:42:15,396 --> 00:42:18,116 Speaker 3: into it all of the patterns, an intuitive musical sense 733 00:42:18,156 --> 00:42:20,996 Speaker 3: of a proven hit maker like Scott, but then this 734 00:42:21,156 --> 00:42:26,316 Speaker 3: crazy X factor of proto artificially intelligent randomness. That dream 735 00:42:26,596 --> 00:42:30,796 Speaker 3: was Scott's life's work. He needed it to work. Everything 736 00:42:30,876 --> 00:42:31,636 Speaker 3: was writing on it. 737 00:42:36,516 --> 00:42:39,596 Speaker 14: So Gordy was so impressed that you wrote a check 738 00:42:39,636 --> 00:42:42,556 Speaker 14: on the spot for ten thousand dollars to get started, 739 00:42:42,876 --> 00:42:44,356 Speaker 14: and that was a lot of money back then. 740 00:42:47,356 --> 00:42:51,396 Speaker 3: It was a huge windfall. Scott was overjoyed. Gordy wanted 741 00:42:51,396 --> 00:42:55,076 Speaker 3: the instrument remade to suit Motown's needs, so Scott began 742 00:42:55,156 --> 00:42:59,196 Speaker 3: work immediately. The machine would be a culmination of everything 743 00:42:59,236 --> 00:43:02,836 Speaker 3: he'd worked on up to that point, including the player 744 00:43:02,876 --> 00:43:06,196 Speaker 3: piano from his childhood. Here's a call from a couple 745 00:43:06,236 --> 00:43:09,236 Speaker 3: of years earlier between Scott and Bob Mogue, the the 746 00:43:09,236 --> 00:43:12,196 Speaker 3: sizer legend who'd worked with him, And this knocked me 747 00:43:12,236 --> 00:43:14,156 Speaker 3: out when I first heard it in the archives. But 748 00:43:14,276 --> 00:43:16,956 Speaker 3: he was still thinking about the player piano. You can 749 00:43:16,996 --> 00:43:18,956 Speaker 3: hear the ideas just bursting out of him. 750 00:43:19,516 --> 00:43:21,796 Speaker 13: I have some things that I think would lest we 751 00:43:21,916 --> 00:43:27,436 Speaker 13: slip you, and this is how the secret stuff. But well, 752 00:43:27,716 --> 00:43:29,076 Speaker 13: I'll have to explain with you when I see when 753 00:43:29,116 --> 00:43:33,076 Speaker 13: I see. Okay, but the the programming isn't evitable. I mean, 754 00:43:33,156 --> 00:43:36,476 Speaker 13: you know, the computing machine into programming things and was 755 00:43:36,516 --> 00:43:40,116 Speaker 13: programming things and all them a major tools of programming things. Yeah, 756 00:43:40,876 --> 00:43:43,796 Speaker 13: and so the programming it's going to be the way 757 00:43:43,836 --> 00:43:44,396 Speaker 13: it's done. 758 00:43:45,036 --> 00:43:50,596 Speaker 3: A player piano for the space age. Scott, of course, 759 00:43:50,716 --> 00:43:53,276 Speaker 3: quickly blew through the Motown down payment and ran out 760 00:43:53,276 --> 00:43:56,956 Speaker 3: of time, but Gordy didn't seem to mind. Scott moved 761 00:43:56,956 --> 00:43:59,676 Speaker 3: out to Motown's offices in Los Angeles to work on 762 00:43:59,716 --> 00:44:03,276 Speaker 3: the electronium in a room above Barry Gordy's garage. He 763 00:44:03,356 --> 00:44:07,956 Speaker 3: became the director of electronic music research and development. Eventually 764 00:44:08,116 --> 00:44:10,836 Speaker 3: he started to work on the machine in the Motown studios. 765 00:44:11,436 --> 00:44:14,316 Speaker 7: People were in awe of him. I'm thinking of a 766 00:44:14,356 --> 00:44:17,556 Speaker 7: couple different engineers who were up there who would just 767 00:44:17,716 --> 00:44:19,636 Speaker 7: come out and be like shaking their heads, kind of 768 00:44:19,676 --> 00:44:21,876 Speaker 7: like like you know, what is going on kind of thing. 769 00:44:22,276 --> 00:44:25,756 Speaker 3: Scott's daughter deb Studa Baker Again, according to a former 770 00:44:25,796 --> 00:44:29,436 Speaker 3: engineer at Motown, Michael Jackson, would come by Scott's studio, 771 00:44:29,676 --> 00:44:32,156 Speaker 3: a small room on the second floor and watch the 772 00:44:32,196 --> 00:44:37,036 Speaker 3: electronium work. It made music unlike anything they'd heard. The 773 00:44:37,076 --> 00:44:39,436 Speaker 3: idea wasn't that the machine would write a complete song 774 00:44:39,476 --> 00:44:42,956 Speaker 3: structure versus chorus bridge, but that it would iterate on 775 00:44:43,076 --> 00:44:46,916 Speaker 3: combinations of rhythm, chord and melody in search of that spark. 776 00:44:47,436 --> 00:44:49,716 Speaker 3: It was a way of automating the part of songwriting. 777 00:44:49,756 --> 00:44:52,836 Speaker 3: Scott excelled at the thing that caught your ear and 778 00:44:52,956 --> 00:44:56,036 Speaker 3: made you like something the first time you heard it. 779 00:44:56,036 --> 00:44:58,756 Speaker 3: It was meant as a collaboration between man and machine, 780 00:44:59,116 --> 00:45:00,916 Speaker 3: one that took the hard work out of the most 781 00:45:00,996 --> 00:45:08,836 Speaker 3: crucial part of the songwriting process. The inspiration but over time, 782 00:45:08,956 --> 00:45:11,996 Speaker 3: the the extreme cost weighed the project down. Also the 783 00:45:11,996 --> 00:45:15,556 Speaker 3: fact that Scott was never satisfied, refused to be finished. 784 00:45:16,156 --> 00:45:21,476 Speaker 3: The electronium worked, it just was always opened up, being redesigned, refined, changed. 785 00:45:22,196 --> 00:45:25,156 Speaker 3: At one point, that same engineer tried to get Motown's 786 00:45:25,196 --> 00:45:28,156 Speaker 3: famous session musicians to play along with the machine as 787 00:45:28,196 --> 00:45:30,516 Speaker 3: part of a drive to use the instrument on a recording, 788 00:45:31,036 --> 00:45:31,876 Speaker 3: but they revolted. 789 00:45:32,996 --> 00:45:34,276 Speaker 12: They didn't like it. 790 00:45:34,276 --> 00:45:36,276 Speaker 14: They didn't like the idea of it, they didn't like 791 00:45:36,596 --> 00:45:39,916 Speaker 14: the concept, they didn't like what it theoretically represented. 792 00:45:40,156 --> 00:45:43,716 Speaker 12: And these guys were great musicians. They didn't want to 793 00:45:43,756 --> 00:45:45,156 Speaker 12: be replaced by a machine. 794 00:45:47,716 --> 00:45:50,876 Speaker 3: It's not known whether the electronium ever suggested an idea 795 00:45:50,916 --> 00:45:53,276 Speaker 3: that made it into a Motown song, but I think 796 00:45:53,316 --> 00:45:57,036 Speaker 3: it's unlikely. Gordy let Scott take the electronium home with 797 00:45:57,156 --> 00:46:00,516 Speaker 3: him eventually to tinker with it around the house. He'd 798 00:46:00,516 --> 00:46:02,436 Speaker 3: stay up all night and work on it all day 799 00:46:02,436 --> 00:46:06,196 Speaker 3: in his pajamas, building new bits and pieces, taking it apart, 800 00:46:06,316 --> 00:46:09,516 Speaker 3: and building it again. Then his health got worse, the 801 00:46:09,596 --> 00:46:12,956 Speaker 3: music industry moved on started to forget about him. He 802 00:46:13,076 --> 00:46:16,276 Speaker 3: had several strokes, and the electronium sat and the guests 803 00:46:16,316 --> 00:46:20,596 Speaker 3: shed out back gathering dust, waiting to be found. 804 00:46:20,996 --> 00:46:23,836 Speaker 6: Well, it's doctor Frankenstein's monster, isn't it. 805 00:46:23,916 --> 00:46:27,956 Speaker 3: Brian Keihue again synthesizer wizard, former keyboardist for The Who, 806 00:46:28,156 --> 00:46:31,316 Speaker 3: Fiona Apple, producer and the second person this episode to 807 00:46:31,316 --> 00:46:34,876 Speaker 3: bring up Frankenstein's monster more happily, in this case about 808 00:46:34,916 --> 00:46:38,116 Speaker 3: a machine rather than a person. He's working now to 809 00:46:38,116 --> 00:46:41,796 Speaker 3: bring the electronium back to life. We spoke last winter. 810 00:46:42,556 --> 00:46:46,756 Speaker 6: And so electronium might be literally just a piece of inspiration. 811 00:46:47,076 --> 00:46:49,236 Speaker 6: If I play piano or if I play guitar and 812 00:46:49,276 --> 00:46:52,876 Speaker 6: write songs, my fingers are even limiting because I tend 813 00:46:52,876 --> 00:46:55,676 Speaker 6: to play a certain chord shape where I'm jazzier and 814 00:46:55,716 --> 00:46:59,676 Speaker 6: he's more country. But if the electronium was not confined 815 00:46:59,676 --> 00:47:02,476 Speaker 6: by those things, it might come up with ideas that 816 00:47:02,516 --> 00:47:06,716 Speaker 6: are beautiful hybrids. Maybe little jazzy, but little polka, and 817 00:47:06,756 --> 00:47:09,276 Speaker 6: who knows what it would come up with. That It's 818 00:47:09,396 --> 00:47:13,276 Speaker 6: an idea to say that the human creativity is limited. 819 00:47:13,316 --> 00:47:15,476 Speaker 6: It's a beautiful thing when it works, but as we know, 820 00:47:16,156 --> 00:47:19,116 Speaker 6: you can't just write great music all day, otherwise everybody would. 821 00:47:19,516 --> 00:47:20,996 Speaker 3: I guess part of the problem is like in a 822 00:47:21,036 --> 00:47:25,196 Speaker 3: creative line of work. Your business, especially when you're a motown, 823 00:47:25,276 --> 00:47:28,156 Speaker 3: which is an empire at that point, is totally dependent 824 00:47:28,196 --> 00:47:31,716 Speaker 3: on this fundamentally unknowable, unreliable thing, which is human creativity. 825 00:47:31,836 --> 00:47:33,476 Speaker 3: Like you never really know when the music is going 826 00:47:33,516 --> 00:47:36,396 Speaker 3: to strike, and so especially with the kind of assembly 827 00:47:36,476 --> 00:47:42,676 Speaker 3: line motown idea, if you could just make that predictable 828 00:47:42,836 --> 00:47:48,076 Speaker 3: and automate it the aha moment, then that would take 829 00:47:48,076 --> 00:47:50,316 Speaker 3: a lot of the uncertainty out of the business. 830 00:47:50,636 --> 00:47:52,876 Speaker 6: I think you pointed out something that most people don't 831 00:47:52,956 --> 00:47:57,116 Speaker 6: want to ever mention, which is that creativity is unreliable. 832 00:47:57,836 --> 00:48:00,116 Speaker 6: You might be Paul McCartney and able to write some 833 00:48:00,236 --> 00:48:02,116 Speaker 6: of the world's greatest songs. But if I brought him 834 00:48:02,116 --> 00:48:03,556 Speaker 6: in the room right now and gave him an hour, 835 00:48:03,676 --> 00:48:06,796 Speaker 6: said write me a great song, it doesn't work that way. 836 00:48:09,796 --> 00:48:12,836 Speaker 3: It doesn't work that way. But you can understand why 837 00:48:12,876 --> 00:48:16,156 Speaker 3: someone who devoted his whole life to making perfect music 838 00:48:16,796 --> 00:48:45,396 Speaker 3: wish that it did it. Raymond Scott died in nineteen 839 00:48:45,476 --> 00:48:49,076 Speaker 3: ninety four in obscurity and relative poverty in a nursing 840 00:48:49,116 --> 00:48:53,356 Speaker 3: home near that faded house and Van nuys Jo's a Winner. 841 00:48:53,556 --> 00:48:57,076 Speaker 3: A slew of fellow enthusiasts, and the Scott family started 842 00:48:57,076 --> 00:48:59,636 Speaker 3: to comb through his archives to piece the whole crazy 843 00:48:59,676 --> 00:49:03,156 Speaker 3: story together. They shipped boxes and boxes of tapes and 844 00:49:03,196 --> 00:49:05,676 Speaker 3: records and papers to the Mars Sound Archives at the 845 00:49:05,756 --> 00:49:09,676 Speaker 3: University of Missouri, Kansas City. Then they released his music 846 00:49:09,716 --> 00:49:13,916 Speaker 3: and compilations. Scott had always kept his machines mostly secret 847 00:49:14,116 --> 00:49:16,716 Speaker 3: in case anyone wanted to steal them, but when they 848 00:49:16,796 --> 00:49:20,156 Speaker 3: finally released Scott's electronic music in the early two thousands, 849 00:49:20,236 --> 00:49:22,876 Speaker 3: he suddenly had a new set of posthumous hits. You 850 00:49:22,916 --> 00:49:25,836 Speaker 3: probably don't even realize you've heard a Raymond Scott's song before, 851 00:49:26,116 --> 00:49:30,436 Speaker 3: but he's been sampled all over the place. Gorillas, Jay Dilla, Lizzo, 852 00:49:30,756 --> 00:49:33,836 Speaker 3: They've all sampled Scott. His music is in the Simpsons, 853 00:49:33,916 --> 00:49:37,756 Speaker 3: ren and Stimpy HBO shows. The song you're hearing now 854 00:49:37,876 --> 00:49:41,236 Speaker 3: is called port Afino, and it was unreleased in his lifetime, 855 00:49:41,956 --> 00:49:44,556 Speaker 3: but there are all these recordings of it, each trying 856 00:49:44,596 --> 00:49:48,636 Speaker 3: it a different way, all electronics, with vocals, with saxophone. 857 00:49:49,196 --> 00:49:52,156 Speaker 3: When the archivists found it, choose it thought the melody 858 00:49:52,196 --> 00:49:54,276 Speaker 3: was so classic it must have been a cover. 859 00:49:54,716 --> 00:49:58,116 Speaker 5: And I went into various databases looking for a port Afino. 860 00:49:58,676 --> 00:50:01,636 Speaker 5: There's like eighty or one hundred things called port Afino, 861 00:50:02,276 --> 00:50:04,716 Speaker 5: and I would go through iTunes listen to every goddamn 862 00:50:04,756 --> 00:50:06,996 Speaker 5: one of them, and not one of them was Raymond's melody. 863 00:50:07,236 --> 00:50:09,916 Speaker 5: But to this date, I mean, that thing's been out 864 00:50:09,916 --> 00:50:11,836 Speaker 5: for twenty one years, no one has come to us 865 00:50:11,836 --> 00:50:15,236 Speaker 5: and said, h that's cover version, or someone else wrote that, 866 00:50:15,356 --> 00:50:16,996 Speaker 5: or it's a traditional melody. 867 00:50:17,436 --> 00:50:21,956 Speaker 3: A true original. Meanwhile, Mark Mothersbaugh, the lead singer of Devo, 868 00:50:22,316 --> 00:50:25,036 Speaker 3: bought the Electronium and dragged it from the shed to 869 00:50:25,076 --> 00:50:28,996 Speaker 3: his studios. Brian key Hugh is trying now to assemble 870 00:50:28,996 --> 00:50:31,596 Speaker 3: a team of engineers to bring it back online in 871 00:50:31,676 --> 00:50:35,276 Speaker 3: digital or physical form. Even with all the schematics, they're 872 00:50:35,316 --> 00:50:36,196 Speaker 3: still mystified. 873 00:50:36,596 --> 00:50:38,876 Speaker 6: You know. Somebody said it's still a black box, and 874 00:50:38,916 --> 00:50:41,836 Speaker 6: that's true. We still don't know what it did. And 875 00:50:41,876 --> 00:50:44,396 Speaker 6: I feel like we're looking through a keyhole at a 876 00:50:44,476 --> 00:50:46,996 Speaker 6: room and we can barely see it until we get 877 00:50:47,036 --> 00:50:48,036 Speaker 6: through the door a bit more. 878 00:50:49,436 --> 00:50:52,996 Speaker 3: There are Scott cover bands and Scott festivals. Somehow his 879 00:50:53,116 --> 00:50:56,716 Speaker 3: music still resonates. Whatever spark he caught is still catching. 880 00:50:57,436 --> 00:50:59,756 Speaker 3: What I think is strange, as most of the musicians 881 00:50:59,796 --> 00:51:01,756 Speaker 3: who knew Scott earlier in his life seemed to have 882 00:51:01,796 --> 00:51:04,316 Speaker 3: hated him, but the engineers who knew him at the 883 00:51:04,396 --> 00:51:06,916 Speaker 3: end of his life loved him. A lot of his 884 00:51:06,956 --> 00:51:10,996 Speaker 3: early jazz hits were aggressive, frantic firecrackers of song, but 885 00:51:11,036 --> 00:51:15,316 Speaker 3: the electronic stuff is often sweet, guileless innocent. Some of 886 00:51:15,356 --> 00:51:19,036 Speaker 3: that stuff was written in partnership with the electronium. His melody, 887 00:51:19,396 --> 00:51:22,556 Speaker 3: its patterns, and it sounds like a songwriter at peace 888 00:51:22,596 --> 00:51:23,196 Speaker 3: with himself. 889 00:51:23,996 --> 00:51:27,396 Speaker 6: At one point he'd resisted human control of it, but 890 00:51:27,436 --> 00:51:29,636 Speaker 6: then he took one of the voice cards and adapted 891 00:51:29,676 --> 00:51:32,796 Speaker 6: it to a keyboard input. As he found before when 892 00:51:32,796 --> 00:51:35,436 Speaker 6: he would put a Hammond organ or mostly an ondulan 893 00:51:35,516 --> 00:51:38,916 Speaker 6: on top of the electronium, it really needed somebody doing 894 00:51:38,956 --> 00:51:43,076 Speaker 6: a nice melody in order to sell the package. 895 00:51:46,996 --> 00:51:50,356 Speaker 3: There is, I think a lesson in Scott's life, one 896 00:51:50,396 --> 00:51:52,916 Speaker 3: that's kind of a morality tale for our own AI 897 00:51:53,036 --> 00:51:57,756 Speaker 3: adult chat GPT world. He walked from automatic pianos to 898 00:51:57,836 --> 00:52:03,356 Speaker 3: the first computers. He sought perfection, he sought industrial scale creativity, 899 00:52:04,036 --> 00:52:07,436 Speaker 3: but the trade offs he made were the relationships around him, 900 00:52:07,676 --> 00:52:10,076 Speaker 3: the failure to see the humanity of the people he 901 00:52:10,156 --> 00:52:13,596 Speaker 3: was trying to control. People would sometimes talk about Scott 902 00:52:13,596 --> 00:52:16,316 Speaker 3: as if he were a machine. But I think there's 903 00:52:16,316 --> 00:52:19,516 Speaker 3: something in his music that testifies to a soul, that 904 00:52:19,596 --> 00:52:22,956 Speaker 3: ghost at the keys of the player piano, those recorded 905 00:52:22,956 --> 00:52:26,196 Speaker 3: phone calls to his family, that early string of hits, 906 00:52:26,756 --> 00:52:30,436 Speaker 3: All the musical machines, what they have in common is 907 00:52:30,476 --> 00:52:34,076 Speaker 3: the goal of each song to connect people through sound. 908 00:52:35,676 --> 00:52:40,116 Speaker 3: Scott prized perfection in that end above everything else, and 909 00:52:40,156 --> 00:52:44,036 Speaker 3: it ruined him. Someday soon someone might be able to 910 00:52:44,036 --> 00:52:46,876 Speaker 3: bring the electronium back to life. And here again the 911 00:52:46,916 --> 00:52:50,876 Speaker 3: inside of Scott's mind. But still I think he must 912 00:52:50,876 --> 00:52:54,756 Speaker 3: have known the electronium could never write a Raymond Scott song. 913 00:52:55,876 --> 00:53:14,716 Speaker 3: For that you needed Raymond Scott on the Last Archive 914 00:53:14,836 --> 00:53:18,956 Speaker 3: is written and hosted by Me, Ben Nattaphaffrey. It's produced 915 00:53:18,956 --> 00:53:22,236 Speaker 3: by Me and Lucy Sullivan and edited by Sophie Crane. 916 00:53:22,676 --> 00:53:26,236 Speaker 3: Jake Gorsky is our engineer. Fact checking on this episode 917 00:53:26,276 --> 00:53:30,076 Speaker 3: by Arthur Gompertz and Lucy Sullivan. Sound design by Jake 918 00:53:30,116 --> 00:53:34,556 Speaker 3: Gorsky and Lucy Sullivan. Our executive producers are Sophie Crane 919 00:53:34,676 --> 00:53:39,236 Speaker 3: and Jill Lapour. Thanks also to Julia Barton Pushkin's executive editor. 920 00:53:39,916 --> 00:53:43,236 Speaker 3: Original music by Matthias Bossi and John Evans of stell 921 00:53:43,276 --> 00:53:48,436 Speaker 3: Wagon Symphonet. Additional music by Quarantooth. Our foolproof player is 922 00:53:48,476 --> 00:53:51,556 Speaker 3: Becca A. Lewis. Many of our sound effects are from 923 00:53:51,556 --> 00:53:55,596 Speaker 3: Harry Jannette Junior in the Star Ganette Foundation. Special thanks 924 00:53:55,636 --> 00:53:58,756 Speaker 3: on this episode to Alan w and Tenman, Jack Hurtz, 925 00:53:59,076 --> 00:54:02,836 Speaker 3: Carl Miller and the Pierian Recording Society, and Byron Werner 926 00:54:03,436 --> 00:54:06,516 Speaker 3: for a bibliography. Further reading and a transcript and teaching 927 00:54:06,516 --> 00:54:09,116 Speaker 3: guide to this episode, head to the Last Archive dot org. 928 00:54:10,076 --> 00:54:13,476 Speaker 3: The Last Archive is a production of Pushkin Industries. If 929 00:54:13,516 --> 00:54:17,076 Speaker 3: you love this show, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus, offering 930 00:54:17,116 --> 00:54:20,076 Speaker 3: bonus content and ad free listening across our network for 931 00:54:20,116 --> 00:54:22,876 Speaker 3: four ninety nine a month. Look for the Pushkin Plus 932 00:54:22,956 --> 00:54:26,396 Speaker 3: channel on Apple Podcasts or at pushkin dot fm, and 933 00:54:26,476 --> 00:54:29,356 Speaker 3: please sign up for our newsletter at pushkin dot fm 934 00:54:29,396 --> 00:54:33,316 Speaker 3: slash Newsletter. To find more Pushkin podcasts, listen on the 935 00:54:33,356 --> 00:54:37,316 Speaker 3: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 936 00:54:37,916 --> 00:54:47,836 Speaker 3: I'm Ben Nattafhaffrey.