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Speaker 1: Climb Stories with Nancy Grace on Serious x M Triumph

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Speaker 1: Channel one thirty two. Hundreds of thousands of people are

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Speaker 1: calling for the pardon of a convicted killer after the

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Speaker 1: Netflix series Making a Murderer exposed possible flaws in the

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Speaker 1: case that put him behind bars. We have you. Making

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Speaker 1: a Murderer tells the story of Stephen Aver. He's the

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Speaker 1: Wisconsin man who served eighteen years in prison for rape

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Speaker 1: before being exonerated in two thousand and three. We the

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Speaker 1: jury find the defendant guilty of only to find himself

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Speaker 1: in prison again on a murder conviction in two thousand seven.

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Speaker 1: Many viewers concluded Avery was framed by authorities who lied

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Speaker 1: and planted evidence. Stephen Avery is right where he needs

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Speaker 1: to be, in prison. I think he was innocent. Is innocent?

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Speaker 1: It turned into a documentary. I guess you should call

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Speaker 1: it a documentary Netflix, Making a Murderer. But what is

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Speaker 1: the real story behind the brutal sex assault and murder

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Speaker 1: of a twenty five year old photographer Teresa Hallback the

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Speaker 1: very latest in the saga of Stephen Avery and his nephew,

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Speaker 1: Brendan Dascy, who now both insists their innocent. But I

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Speaker 1: know different. I know, a different story because I was

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Speaker 1: lied straight to my face. Right now a legal motion

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Speaker 1: in court as the courts bring down the hammer. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you see, Grace, this is crime stories. Thank you for

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Speaker 1: being with us the truth about what happened to Teresa Hallback.

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Speaker 1: I want to go right now to Detective Tom Fastbender,

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Speaker 1: who worked on the case actually took one of Brandon

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Speaker 1: Dacy's many, many confessions. Also with me is Brenda who

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Speaker 1: is a Dassy case expert working with Fastbender and John

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Speaker 1: Lee reporter returned from the Post Crescent and Appleton, Wisconsin.

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Speaker 1: Detective Tom Fastbinder, thank you so much for being with us.

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Speaker 1: The reality is that Brendan Dascy gave multiple confessions. He

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Speaker 1: confessed to his mother on the phone, he confessed to

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Speaker 1: his cousin Keela, he confessed to police, he confessed on

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Speaker 1: a video tape confession by his own defense attorney. But

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Speaker 1: let's take it from the beginning. Tom, tell me about

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Speaker 1: the case for those of for those listeners just joining us,

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Speaker 1: How did it all start? Nancy, thanks for having me

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Speaker 1: on um. The case started basically with a missing person,

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Speaker 1: tre Sall Black being missing, and from there it went

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Speaker 1: into Louie homicide investigation, and her vehicle was found on

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Speaker 1: Stephen Avery's or the Avery Salvage yard where Stephen Avery lived,

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Speaker 1: and from there the evidence kept mounting, uh pointing directly

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Speaker 1: at Stephen Avery, and Uh the even speaks for herself.

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Speaker 1: He was ultimately convicted of the of the murder of

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Speaker 1: Teresa Halbach and his nephew, who he invited to help

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Speaker 1: with the abduction, sex assaulted murder. I was also convicted

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Speaker 1: based on Brendan Dacy statements that she that he made

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Speaker 1: the multiple statements you already referred to. This is what

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Speaker 1: we know. Terisa Hallback was an amateur photographer. Then she

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Speaker 1: started taking photos for the local auto triter. You know,

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Speaker 1: you've seen those magazines at the grocery store when you

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Speaker 1: walk in of all of the cars for sale, used cars.

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Speaker 1: She had gone to Stephen Amory the sub of making

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Speaker 1: a Murderer on Netflix before, to take pictures at his

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Speaker 1: auto salvage lot, and she hated it. She said he

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Speaker 1: was super creepy and didn't want to go back. Well,

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Speaker 1: to keep her job and keep going as a professional photographer,

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Speaker 1: she goes back. She's never seen alive again. Parts of

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Speaker 1: her bones and teeth were found in a quote fire

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Speaker 1: pit and Stephen Avery's back lot, just outside his office

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Speaker 1: of his auto salvage lot. Her car had been dragged

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Speaker 1: to the back of his lot and concealed with plywood

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Speaker 1: and tree limbs. Stephen Avery's DNA was on Teresa Hallback's car,

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Speaker 1: including on the ignition a bullet fragment covered and Teresa

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Speaker 1: Hallback's DNA was found in Stephen Avery's garage, but at

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Speaker 1: the time police did not know what had become of Teresa.

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Speaker 1: I started covering this case when Teresa was just a

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Speaker 1: missing person. Take a listen to its Stephen Avery, the target,

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Speaker 1: the star of Netflix, making a murderer, said to me, Steve,

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Speaker 1: and I understand that Teresa came to your auto salvage

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Speaker 1: lot to take photos for the auto Trader. Correct, she

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Speaker 1: came down by me. Okay? And Stephen, is my understanding

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Speaker 1: that also you stay that you saw her car leave? Yes,

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Speaker 1: I did, about what time between she was there between

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Speaker 1: two and two thirty, two thirty in the afternoon. Okay, Stephen,

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Speaker 1: how is it that her car could get it all

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Speaker 1: the way back in this pit area where there is uh, well,

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Speaker 1: I believe we're showing it right now. I mean, wouldn't

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Speaker 1: you have to pass back by the office again, Well

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Speaker 1: on the on the outskirts up the office ottwise backed

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Speaker 1: by me or back by Rdan's pitt in the corner.

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Speaker 1: It's all open. It's all open, so you can drive

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Speaker 1: in there, Mr Avery, did you see anyone else come in,

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Speaker 1: anyone unusual that didn't belong there? Well, during the night,

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Speaker 1: me and my brother had to go to to pick

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Speaker 1: up some more with the flat bed, and I've seen

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Speaker 1: tail lights backed by me. I wasn't supposed to be,

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Speaker 1: but we turned around and we went back there. Truck

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Speaker 1: your parked on the side, and I took the plot

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Speaker 1: flight all the flat bed and I looked around by

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Speaker 1: me and behind me, but I didn't see that. That

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Speaker 1: is from CNN's h l N program that I has

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Speaker 1: to for many many years. So he lied out right,

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Speaker 1: Tom Fastbender. I mean, the reality of what happened to

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Speaker 1: Teresa Holbike is that she went to go take the pictures.

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Speaker 1: He overcame her. He tied her up and chained her

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Speaker 1: to a bed, cut off her hair, stripped her, raped her,

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Speaker 1: brought over his nephew told him to quote have sex

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Speaker 1: with her. Brendan Dacy also raped her as she begged

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Speaker 1: him not to. Then they stabbed her as she screamed

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Speaker 1: and cried and begged him not to. Dascy also stabbed her.

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Speaker 1: Then to make sure she was dead, they shot her,

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Speaker 1: then burned her body, using her clothes to wipe up

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Speaker 1: her own blood through her clothes on top of her

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Speaker 1: naked body on a fire pit out in the backyard

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Speaker 1: of the auto salvage lot, and then pile things like

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Speaker 1: tires and whatever was around on top of that to

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Speaker 1: make sure her body burned in the fire. In the

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Speaker 1: days that followed, police found bits of her bones, teeth,

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Speaker 1: and the studs of the back of her Daisy Fuentes

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Speaker 1: Jeans Venue var Geese, former prosecutor and criminal defense attorney.

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Speaker 1: You handle appeals and post conviction motions, explain to me

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Speaker 1: why he believes he should have a new trial. I'm

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Speaker 1: talking about the nephew, Brendan Dacy, who the Seventh Circuit

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Speaker 1: Court of Appeals just rejected. First of all, Nancy, the

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Speaker 1: evidence is not overwhelming against Day. There is no DNA

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Speaker 1: licking him that shows that he was involved in any rate.

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Speaker 1: There is the issue of the confessions here, and with

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Speaker 1: all due respect to the detective. The confession stinks. There

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Speaker 1: was a lot of evidence that was fed to him

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Speaker 1: to a kid who's sixteen years old, who has a

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Speaker 1: very low i Q. Now hold on, wait a minute, Venu,

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Speaker 1: wait a minute. Are you talking about the confession that

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Speaker 1: never came into court taken by his own defense attorney who,

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Speaker 1: when he saw the case said we got to get

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Speaker 1: you a deal, Dassie, And he took a video interview

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Speaker 1: with leading questions and egging him on to give an

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Speaker 1: answer to use to give the prosecutors to show that

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Speaker 1: Brendan Dacy would be a great witness for the state

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Speaker 1: against Stephen Avery. Then when Kachinsky leaves the case, that

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Speaker 1: is what happened, and that never came in front of

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Speaker 1: the jury. That's not what I'm talking about any I'm

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Speaker 1: talking about what came in front of the jury. You

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Speaker 1: have gaps, You have all these leading questions for somebody's

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Speaker 1: frett kids. Think about it. Imagine if you're kid didn't

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Speaker 1: have the same capacity as somebody else, and he's being

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Speaker 1: fed answers, and every time that he and he's being

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Speaker 1: told look, things will be okay. And at one point

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Speaker 1: he's like, can I get back to school? And so

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Speaker 1: the you know, the Supreme Court of the United States

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Speaker 1: found that executions of juveniles are was pooled and unusual

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Speaker 1: punishment and outlaw. That's not even an issue. He's not

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Speaker 1: even facing the death penalty. No, he's not. He's not.

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Speaker 1: What I'm saying here though, So are you bringing it

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Speaker 1: off Supreme courtious? Father, that should find that interrogations of

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Speaker 1: screws juveniles, particularly those were a low mental capacity, is

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Speaker 1: cruel and unusual. I mean, this is a kid who's well, okay,

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Speaker 1: So if you have a low i Q and you're

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Speaker 1: sixtain and you rape a woman tied up in shain

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Speaker 1: to a band and then stab her dad, we don't

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Speaker 1: want to take your confession because, just so you know,

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Speaker 1: the mother came with him. Then the mother gave permission

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Speaker 1: for police to speak to him. The first few times

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Speaker 1: that they spoke to him, they thought he was just

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Speaker 1: a witness that knew something. Then he implicated himself. He

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Speaker 1: confessed on a recorded phone conversation to his mother. He

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Speaker 1: confessed to a cousin Kella. And very very important is

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Speaker 1: that his confessions match the physical evidence. So unless he's

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Speaker 1: a clairvoyant, he would not know those details. Detective Tom Fassbender,

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Speaker 1: I'd like to hear your response to Venue var Geese.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, Nancy. UH do you have you in question

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Speaker 1: that he is referring to is exactly that started I

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Speaker 1: as an interview until Brendan Dassy essentially blew us away

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Speaker 1: with some admissions that he made the beginning with the

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Speaker 1: fact that he said he raped Teresa Halbach at the

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Speaker 1: urging of Stephen Avery less than fifty minutes into the interview,

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Speaker 1: and I stress the Foft interview no yelling, no deprivation

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Speaker 1: of basic necessities, and he mentions that information was sid

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Speaker 1: to him. There were times when uh information was fed

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Speaker 1: to him and there were some leading questions. But I

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Speaker 1: can go through that interview and showed just as many

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Speaker 1: instances of him providing information to us that we had

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Speaker 1: no idea he was going to provide, essentially, like I said,

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Speaker 1: blowing us away, And also many instances where he resisted

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Speaker 1: any type of suggestion and denied involvements such as him

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Speaker 1: actually shooting trees that he vehemently denied that and did

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Speaker 1: not change his mind. UH, and in many other instances

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Speaker 1: and including the control question, that that he denied any

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Speaker 1: knowledge of um so I reality is tom the reality

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Speaker 1: as if he had stuck with Kaczynski, who was trying

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Speaker 1: to kind of deal for him, he had probably be

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Speaker 1: up for parole right now. Uh. I don't know that

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Speaker 1: he would get it the first time around, but he

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Speaker 1: would probably already be up for parole right now. But

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Speaker 1: instead he launched a defense that he gave a false

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Speaker 1: confession and that he really got the idea for everything

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Speaker 1: he was saying because he read the book Kissed the Girls. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean, if you're that low of an iron Q

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Speaker 1: that he's claiming, I don't know how you could get

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Speaker 1: through kiss the Girls. Wasn't that turned into a movie

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Speaker 1: with Ashley Judd and Morgan Freeman. I mean he said

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Speaker 1: he on his own read the book Kissed the Girls,

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Speaker 1: and then created and masterminded the defense and masterminded his statement,

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Speaker 1: his so called confession, and that the confession was false.

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Speaker 1: That is what he told the jury. His new defense

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Speaker 1: attorney put him up on the stand and told the

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Speaker 1: jury that he was not involved, that they made him

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Speaker 1: get of a confession, although nobody yelled at him, beat him,

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Speaker 1: deprived him of food or water. His mommy was outside

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Speaker 1: the door, and one of them, Uh, that that was

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Speaker 1: all a big lie, and that really the truth is

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Speaker 1: this is what he said on the stand, that he

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Speaker 1: read the book Kissed the Girls and then came up

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Speaker 1: with a confession. That's where he got the idea. It's

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Speaker 1: amazing that the forensic evidence fits with his confession, but

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Speaker 1: not with the book kiss the Girls. I want to

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Speaker 1: pause very briefly and thank our sponsors are partners making

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Speaker 1: today's program on serious sex possible, as we give you

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Speaker 1: the bombshell news that the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals

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Speaker 1: has rejected making a murderer Brendan Dacy's claim that he's

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Speaker 1: innocent and was forced to give a confession and really

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Speaker 1: based it all on a book you read. I want

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Speaker 1: to take this moment and thank our partner for making

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Speaker 1: our partner. Joining me right now is John Lee, a

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Speaker 1: reporter retired from the Post Crescent in Appleton, Wisconsin. John Lee,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for being with us along with

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Speaker 1: Detective Tom Fastbender, Brenda and the new Vargeese. John Lee,

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Speaker 1: you know the most recent ruling that has just come

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Speaker 1: down from the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals rejecting Netflix

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Speaker 1: making a murderer star Brendan Dassy along with his UH

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Speaker 1: uncle Stephen Avery. What do you make of it, John Lee?

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Speaker 1: There's a few things. Number one, Um, when I talked

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Speaker 1: to the attorneys from Northwestern from day one, and the

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Speaker 1: Northwestern University attorneys took this case after no attorney in

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Speaker 1: Wisconsin would take it, mainly because of what Wisconsin pase

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Speaker 1: public defenders. But number two, and I mentioned it to

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Speaker 1: Tom once Um Brendan's UH testimony that he got the

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Speaker 1: information from Kiss the Girls. Um. He disputed that to me.

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Speaker 1: I interviewed Brendan at the county jail and Manito Walk

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Speaker 1: right after his conviction, and he called me about a

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Speaker 1: month or six weeks later from prison, after I had

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Speaker 1: sent a note, And one of the things he told

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Speaker 1: me is that before he went to prison, he had

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Speaker 1: never read a book. Um, but once he got the prison,

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Speaker 1: somebody sent him a collection of Harry Potter books that

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Speaker 1: he has started to read. But that was just completely

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Speaker 1: countered to his testimony that he got this information. Okay,

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Speaker 1: hold on, John lay White, you're telling me something brand new.

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Speaker 1: So his claim that he got up on the stand

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Speaker 1: under oath and told the jury that he had a

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Speaker 1: false confession, a co Werse confession, he had nothing to

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Speaker 1: do with Teresa Hallby, It's ripe and murder, and that

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Speaker 1: he based everything he said on a book he read,

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Speaker 1: Kissed the Girls, which was later turned into a movie

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Speaker 1: with Ashley Judd and Morgan Freeman, which I saw. Now,

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Speaker 1: are you telling me, John Lee? John Lee is form

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Speaker 1: a reporter with the Post Crescent. You're telling me that

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Speaker 1: he's telling you he's never read kiss the Girls. That's

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Speaker 1: exactly what he told me. I've done somewhere over four

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Speaker 1: hundred stories on this case. I started in Mr Cock

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Speaker 1: the weekend and they found the car and interviewed Brendan

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Speaker 1: two or three times after his convictions, and he had

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Speaker 1: told me then when we had talked about it. Another

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Speaker 1: thing to take in mind is where his attorneys says

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Speaker 1: he's a special needs student. He had some special classes,

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Speaker 1: but he was basically in mainstream classes. And I from

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Speaker 1: what I remember at the trial um and he was

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Speaker 1: picked up for the last time by Tom and Mark

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Speaker 1: Weigerton and gave the last or the interview at the

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Speaker 1: Manitouk Sheriff's department. He was in driver's at That's not

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Speaker 1: a special ed student. He may be low intelligence, but

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Speaker 1: he is not special ed. Wait a minute, Okay, this

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Speaker 1: is counter John Lee to everything the defense has been saying.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I was stunned when I found out different

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Speaker 1: things about Brendon Dascy that would suggest he is not

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Speaker 1: as low and i Q as they wanted me to believe.

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Speaker 1: But now I'm hearing he's in mainstream classes. I mean,

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Speaker 1: was the whole thing and act John Lee. I mean

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Speaker 1: when I say Stephen Avery and Brendan Dassy raped her

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Speaker 1: and killed her and burned her body, everybody acts like

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Speaker 1: I'm the devil. But that is what the facts show.

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Speaker 1: And he was in mainstream classes for a majority of

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Speaker 1: his classes. There's a couple other things to bring out.

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Speaker 1: Number one is and I don't think it was admitted

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Speaker 1: at trial, but Tom and Mark Weiger also investigated a

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Speaker 1: threat that Brendan made to a high school girl who

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Speaker 1: was picking at him, and Brendan said, if you don't

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Speaker 1: want you, you're gonna end up like Teresa. The other

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Speaker 1: thing is, I found it to be one of the

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Speaker 1: most repulsive things I've seen in a confession is when

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Speaker 1: after he raped Teresa and walked out in the living

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Speaker 1: room where his uncle was sitting. He told his uncle

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Speaker 1: what he did, and Avery told him today, Brendan, you

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Speaker 1: became a man. I'm just sick. I'm just sick about

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Speaker 1: what she went through. I mean, the kid is not smart,

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Speaker 1: but he's not what we used to call Return was

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Speaker 1: screaming and crying. Two begged them not to do this thing.

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Speaker 1: And John, why did they have to cut her hair off?

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Speaker 1: I don't know, Um, I'm not sure you know. The

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Speaker 1: other thing when they talked about suggestibility and he being

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Speaker 1: conned into a confession is there was a day long

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Speaker 1: hearing before the trial on admitting that testimony. There was

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Speaker 1: a psychologist from Northern Illinois. I think Rockford and his

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Speaker 1: name escapes me. Now that testify. That was all part

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Speaker 1: of the trial script transcript and it was rebutted by

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Speaker 1: the prosecution. I'm just listening to everything that you're saying, Brenda.

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Speaker 1: You have been working as a Dassy case expert. What

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Speaker 1: is your take um Dassy's claim that this was a

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Speaker 1: forced coercion and he did not write or murder Theresa hallback.

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Speaker 1: My kick is he absolutely did. I agree with you

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Speaker 1: a hundred percent, and I know the new was mentioning

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Speaker 1: before that there really wasn't any evidence that supported it

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Speaker 1: outside of his confession. I don't agree with that. My

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Speaker 1: take on it is that there was plenty of things

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Speaker 1: that substantiated what his confession said. Now some of those

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Speaker 1: are circumstantial, of course, but just a couple examples real quick.

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Speaker 1: Nancy Stephen told Brendan that he cleaned the house trailer.

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Speaker 1: He cleaned it after that house trailer was cleaned very well,

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Speaker 1: and there are phone calls that state that to Jody

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Speaker 1: a day after where he was telling Jody, his girlfriend

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Speaker 1: on a recorded jail call, that the rough doctor that

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Speaker 1: he had wasn't working and he wanted to know where

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Speaker 1: the receipt was so he could take it back. Well,

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Speaker 1: guess what, that rot doctor was gone and there was

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Speaker 1: a new distil in its place, because that's number one.

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Speaker 1: Number two bleached jeans, those were uh evidence in the

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Speaker 1: trial running trial okay number one, he stated he and

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Speaker 1: Stephen were cleaning up the stain of the garage and

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Speaker 1: it was auto fluids. Okay, who cleans up auto fluides?

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Speaker 1: That knows anything about vehicles? You don't. You use kiddie litter,

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Speaker 1: you use sand, you absorb the fluid. Who uses bleach?

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Speaker 1: And backing that up, they found bleach containers, they found

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Speaker 1: paint center containers, when they found gas. All three things

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Speaker 1: that rend And said they used to clean up that oil.

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Speaker 1: Still that he eventually did ant with blood. And lastly

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Speaker 1: he stated he raped and broke up her bones in

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Speaker 1: the fire. We'll get that. They found all around that

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Speaker 1: fire pit. They found a mallet, they found a rap,

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Speaker 1: they found a hole, They found a shovel and a

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Speaker 1: strew driver. Do most normal people have those things laying

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Speaker 1: around their fire I don't fire pits, So I guess

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Speaker 1: there are a lot of things that are circumstantial that

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Speaker 1: you can't tie together, but they do support the other.

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Speaker 1: Another thing Brenda that. Another thing, Brenda that really convinced

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Speaker 1: me Um is that he Brendan Dascy confessed to his

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Speaker 1: own mother and it's on a recorded phone conversation he

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Speaker 1: confessed to friend Kella cousin Kella Um. Multiple multiple corroborating

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Speaker 1: facts go to his confession that he could not have

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Speaker 1: known if he had not been there. I mean, it

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Speaker 1: just goes on and on and on. Listen to what

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Speaker 1: he said. This is Dascy, his Avery's nephew. Avery went

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Speaker 1: to go pick up some stuff around the yard and

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Speaker 1: after that we he asked me to come in the

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Speaker 1: house because he wanted to show me something. And he

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Speaker 1: showed me that she was lying on the bed. Her

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Speaker 1: hands were roped up to the bed and her legs

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Speaker 1: were cuffed, and then he told me to have sex

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Speaker 1: with her. So I did because I thought I was

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Speaker 1: not going to get away from him because he was

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Speaker 1: too strong. So I did what he said. And then

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Speaker 1: after that he untied her and uncuffed her, and then

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Speaker 1: he brought her outside, and before he went outside, he

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Speaker 1: told me to grab her clothes and her shoes, so

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Speaker 1: he went into the garage and before she went out,

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Speaker 1: when he took her outside, he had tied up her

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Speaker 1: hands and feet, and then was in the garage and

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Speaker 1: he stabbed her, and then he told me too. And

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Speaker 1: after that he wanted to make sure she was dead

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Speaker 1: or something, so he shot her five times. And while

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Speaker 1: he was doing that, I wasn't looking because I can't

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Speaker 1: watch that stuff. So I was standing by the big

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Speaker 1: door in the garage. And then after that, he took

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Speaker 1: her outside and we put her on the fire, and

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Speaker 1: we used her clothes to clean up some of the blood.

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Speaker 1: And when we put her in the fire and her clothes,

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Speaker 1: we were standing right by the garage to wait for

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Speaker 1: it to get down, so we threw some of that

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Speaker 1: stuff on it after it went down. Just says it

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Speaker 1: very casually. I want you to hear what his grandfather

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00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:10,239
Speaker 1: tells him and a secretly recorded conversation. Now this is

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00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:20,280
Speaker 1: telling Dassy to keep his mouth shut. Damn gunnen And

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00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:27,440
Speaker 1: they not happen. Yeah, they made me call or that,

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Speaker 1: damn Yeah, And thick to your gun and listen to

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00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:37,359
Speaker 1: this doing going for a pre barrogant order than that,

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00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:41,639
Speaker 1: because you do that and you're hurting board you guys.

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Speaker 1: You know today we are bringing you the very latest

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00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:51,919
Speaker 1: on the two stars of Netflix series Making a Murderer.

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Speaker 1: The latest on Stephen Avery and his cousin Brendan Dascy,

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00:27:56,600 --> 00:28:01,120
Speaker 1: who were both convicted in the brutal rape and murder

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Speaker 1: of a twenty five year old photographer, Teresa Hallback. I

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Speaker 1: will never forget it seeing her picture for the first

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Speaker 1: time and trying to help find her when she was

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Speaker 1: a missing person. The Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals has

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Speaker 1: just rejected Dacy's claims that he was forced to give

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Speaker 1: a confession and he had nothing to do with hall

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Speaker 1: Backs and murder and base his whole confession on a

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Speaker 1: book he read. Guys, I want to thank our partners

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439
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441
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442
00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:01,320
Speaker 1: I want you to listen again to it's Stephen Avery

443
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:05,880
Speaker 1: tells me to my face on c N N H

444
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:11,240
Speaker 1: l N Steve and I understand that Teresa came to

445
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:15,800
Speaker 1: your Auto Salvage lot to take photos for the auto

446
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 1: trade or correct, Yes she did. She came down by me. Okay,

447
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:22,720
Speaker 1: And Stephen, is my understanding that also you stay that

448
00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 1: you saw her car leave? Yes, I did. About what

449
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 1: time between she was there between two and two thirty

450
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:33,960
Speaker 1: two in the afternoon. Okay, Stephen. How is it that

451
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 1: her car could get all the way back in this

452
00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 1: pit area where there is uh? Well, I believe we're

453
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 1: showing it right now. I mean, wouldn't you have to

454
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:48,840
Speaker 1: pass back by the office again? Well, on the on

455
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 1: the out starts up the office ottawise back by me

456
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:56,520
Speaker 1: or back by Dan's pitt in the corner is all open.

457
00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:02,520
Speaker 1: It's all open so you can drive in there, Mr Avery.

458
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 1: Did you see anyone else come in, anyone unusual that

459
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:09,479
Speaker 1: didn't belong there? Well? During the night, me and my

460
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:12,520
Speaker 1: brother had to go to pick up some more with

461
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:16,000
Speaker 1: the pride bed and I've seen tale lights backed by me.

462
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 1: I wasn't supposed to be, But we turned around and

463
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:23,600
Speaker 1: we went back there. Rukr parked on the side and

464
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 1: I took the place flight all the flood bed and

465
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:28,760
Speaker 1: I looked around by me and behind me, but I

466
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:34,160
Speaker 1: didn't see that. Two. Detective Tom fastbender who actually took

467
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 1: Brendan Dacy's confession one of the many confessions. Tom Um,

468
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:44,560
Speaker 1: I don't know how it turns out, Tom, that we

469
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 1: end up to be the bad guys in this scenario.

470
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 1: I mean, Teresa Hall bat was brutally raped and murdered,

471
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:56,160
Speaker 1: and there is no doubt in my mind Stephen Avery

472
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 1: and Brendon Dascy did it. True, Dassy may have been

473
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 1: under Avery's you know, encouragement, but he did this thing.

474
00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 1: Nobody made him rape her and stab her and stand

475
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:13,080
Speaker 1: there and watch her body blade. What is the physical evidence?

476
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 1: Because Avery also says he's innocent and that he's part

477
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:18,680
Speaker 1: of a police frame up, that there was a lot

478
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:22,240
Speaker 1: of physical evidence, a lot of scientific physical evidence, to

479
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:27,920
Speaker 1: include Stephen Avery's blood in Teresa hallbox raft for vehicle.

480
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:31,800
Speaker 1: It was found in many different places throughout the vehicle,

481
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:35,720
Speaker 1: including by the ignition switch, which has been mentioned uh

482
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:39,520
Speaker 1: in different forms, showing that there was an active bleeder

483
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:45,960
Speaker 1: in the car. Subsequently, when resting Stephen Avery his finger

484
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:49,640
Speaker 1: and which examined and it had a fairly fresh cut

485
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:54,600
Speaker 1: on the finger which would have been conducive to that

486
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:58,240
Speaker 1: type of bleeding. Also, there was a bullet found in

487
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 1: the garage from Steven averys the twenty two caliber rifle

488
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:06,720
Speaker 1: that was hanging above Stephen Avery's bed in his bedroom

489
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 1: that was forensically matched to that rifle. That bollets fragment

490
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 1: also had Stephen Avery Teresa hall Bucks DNA on it UH.

491
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:22,160
Speaker 1: Teresa Hallbucks possessions, her camera, her pd A, her telephone,

492
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:25,800
Speaker 1: her cell phone were found just outside of Stephen Avery's

493
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 1: trailer in his burn barrel which witnesses saw him go

494
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 1: to putting things in that day that Teresa was abducted

495
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 1: by him and was burning that day. Those burned remnants

496
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:41,680
Speaker 1: were found in his burned barrel. That is something you

497
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:44,160
Speaker 1: don't hear on on making a murder. As well as

498
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 1: the forensic matchup of the bullet. Also was Steven Averis

499
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:53,600
Speaker 1: DNA on the hood latch to the hood of Teresa's

500
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:57,960
Speaker 1: Raft four UH. The battery had been disconnected on that

501
00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:02,520
Speaker 1: vehicle when it was found and obviously the hood had

502
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:04,360
Speaker 1: to be open for that to be done. And Stephen

503
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:07,280
Speaker 1: a reasoning and he is there. The license plates were

504
00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:11,320
Speaker 1: taken off of thereat for and those were found drawing

505
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:14,160
Speaker 1: in a junk vehicle just down the road from Stephen

506
00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:18,479
Speaker 1: Avery's trailer. So as you can see there there's quite

507
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:23,880
Speaker 1: a bit of physical, scientific, physical evidence that pointed towards

508
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:26,560
Speaker 1: Stephen Avery and no one else. John Lee, I've gone

509
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:32,720
Speaker 1: over and over the physical evidence. I know that Dassy

510
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:37,319
Speaker 1: confessed to his mother, his cousin and others. I mean,

511
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:39,759
Speaker 1: he would already be up for parole right now if

512
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:43,360
Speaker 1: he had taken a deal that Kaczinsky, the first lawyer,

513
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:46,600
Speaker 1: was trying to get for him. But instead his defense

514
00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:49,840
Speaker 1: lawyers put new defense lawyers put him on the stand

515
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:56,680
Speaker 1: with this unbelievable defense. What about the evidence, John Lee,

516
00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:01,840
Speaker 1: and tell us everything makes you BELI leave that Dassy

517
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:07,720
Speaker 1: and then Avery in fact and murdered her on Dassy briefly,

518
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:11,640
Speaker 1: it's the forensic evidence. There's so much of it. Um

519
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:17,640
Speaker 1: on Dassy. People forget that Dassy had information that the

520
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:21,640
Speaker 1: the investigators did not have at that time. They looked

521
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:25,120
Speaker 1: at the hood latch, they looked at the garage, they

522
00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:29,520
Speaker 1: picked up his blue jeans after some of his statements,

523
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:34,319
Speaker 1: um and they did not rate him or threaten him

524
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 1: or anything. If if anybody looks at all of these

525
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:43,040
Speaker 1: confessions that were entered into evidence, and eighteen months worth

526
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:46,960
Speaker 1: of hearings before the trial they would see that if anything,

527
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:51,800
Speaker 1: Tom floss Fender and Mark Weigers treated Brendan with kid gloves,

528
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 1: they did not threaten or anything else. Um, if somebody

529
00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:59,080
Speaker 1: tells me, you know, the truth will set you free.

530
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:03,120
Speaker 1: I don't think that is a threat. If you confess,

531
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:07,080
Speaker 1: you can sleep tonight. Brendon, if he wasn't sold down

532
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:10,759
Speaker 1: the river by his grandparents, he'd be looking at for

533
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:14,360
Speaker 1: all pretty quick. He would have ten years of his

534
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:20,040
Speaker 1: sentence inn already. And you know there's jailhouse recordings and

535
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 1: everything else, and the threats from from Avery and from

536
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:31,440
Speaker 1: his dad and other people. The the evidence as it

537
00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:36,919
Speaker 1: built was just overwhelming against him. And we went through

538
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:41,600
Speaker 1: this for twenty months. Um, and then making a murderer

539
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:48,040
Speaker 1: comes out the first week in michikott before Dascy, while

540
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:52,680
Speaker 1: well before Dascy and before Avery was arrested. When the

541
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:57,799
Speaker 1: Associated Press and Milwaukee and Chicago TV stations asked me

542
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:00,799
Speaker 1: who these two women were, who would tell them it's

543
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 1: that that's the Avery pr her, and I said that

544
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 1: was week one during the entire trials. They arrived for

545
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:16,440
Speaker 1: trial with averys they left for Averis and had with

546
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:19,480
Speaker 1: averies that had lunch. They left with them at the

547
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:24,440
Speaker 1: end um they were joined at the hip, and it

548
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:26,920
Speaker 1: was pretty obvious to see where this was going from

549
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:31,759
Speaker 1: day one. Listen to this. I'm just gonna revisit one thing.

550
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 1: When you're in the bedroom and you cut her throat.

551
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:41,400
Speaker 1: Previously he said that you thought she was alive. Is

552
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 1: that still your thought on that? And why was that?

553
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:48,920
Speaker 1: Because she was pretty a little bit she was like China,

554
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:55,239
Speaker 1: not China breathing this hows she could from screaming up

555
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:59,640
Speaker 1: screaming lost. She was screaming a lot, he wasn't she

556
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:06,799
Speaker 1: us when you cut her throat? Was she screaming when

557
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:09,279
Speaker 1: you cut her throat? Because when you're screaming a lot,

558
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 1: you're like your your breathing goes off. Her home explained

559
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 1: that a little bit. You said she was screaming up.

560
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:20,239
Speaker 1: When was she screaming up by while you were doing it,

561
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:31,200
Speaker 1: after you did it, before you did it before when

562
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:37,120
Speaker 1: you cut her throat, What was she doing if anything

563
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 1: like screaming for help and crying? I want to I

564
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:55,480
Speaker 1: want to get that straight. She was screaming for help

565
00:38:55,520 --> 00:39:00,440
Speaker 1: and crying when you cut her throat? Yeah, when Steven

566
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:09,600
Speaker 1: choker or strangler like a little bit after Well, let's

567
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:12,160
Speaker 1: let's just go back a little bit. Okay, tell us

568
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:16,759
Speaker 1: what exactly happened to her? What order had happened? He said,

569
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:20,360
Speaker 1: they were basically three things prior to you guys shooting her.

570
00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:27,680
Speaker 1: Explain those in the order that it happened. Starting when

571
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:30,640
Speaker 1: I got in a room. Yeah, what what you guys

572
00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:39,160
Speaker 1: did to her? It's sex list? Okay. Then he stabbed her?

573
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:44,480
Speaker 1: And who stabbed her? He did? Who's he step? Okay?

574
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:52,319
Speaker 1: And then what then I caught her throat? Okay, he

575
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 1: choked her? Knock off her hair? Okay, So he choked

576
00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:01,000
Speaker 1: her after you cut her throat? He to I think,

577
00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:04,399
Speaker 1: answer that question, it's simple. It's the confession, and that's

578
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:06,640
Speaker 1: what that the heart of this appeal. And if you

579
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:10,240
Speaker 1: read the dissenting opinion, it was a four three decision.

580
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:14,000
Speaker 1: It was extremely close. So if you read the dissenting opinion,

581
00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:17,120
Speaker 1: they raised one point that's critical, which is that the

582
00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:21,720
Speaker 1: state court in Wisconsin did not take into account Stephen

583
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:25,759
Speaker 1: Avery's age as a juvenile and his diminished mental capacity.

584
00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:28,399
Speaker 1: So if the U. S. Supreme Court thinks that that's

585
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:32,480
Speaker 1: important enough, they'll take it and it's the confession that caught,

586
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:37,000
Speaker 1: particularly to Brendan Dascy, that caught everyone's attention because of

587
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:40,440
Speaker 1: the length, because of the twenty questions that the detectives

588
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:44,400
Speaker 1: played with him that game, giving him answers throughout feeding

589
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:47,880
Speaker 1: him quite feeding him the answers, telling him are things

590
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:50,719
Speaker 1: that you know the truth will set him free, and

591
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:53,759
Speaker 1: convincing him over time that this is what he was

592
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:58,200
Speaker 1: supposed to say. That's haught everyone's attention, and I think

593
00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:00,920
Speaker 1: that's at the heart of it. The question, the technical one,

594
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:03,120
Speaker 1: whether Supreme courts didn't want to hear that or not.

595
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:05,800
Speaker 1: And sometimes you know the Supreme Court, with their Ivy

596
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 1: League background, they like to keep their noses in the air,

597
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:10,640
Speaker 1: the ivory cloud. They may not want to get down

598
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:13,960
Speaker 1: in the jerk, but everyone else knows that that confession.

599
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:18,160
Speaker 1: Detective Tom Fastbender, I'd like to hear your response to

600
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:26,000
Speaker 1: venue again. There was many denials. There were many occasions

601
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:29,080
Speaker 1: when nothing was said to him during that particular areaw

602
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:31,279
Speaker 1: Plus you have to look at the whole picture. He

603
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:36,000
Speaker 1: was talked to two, four, four or five times prior

604
00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:39,759
Speaker 1: to that particular interview, not necessarily by myself. Where he

605
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:43,960
Speaker 1: made it was extremely evident that he was knowingly lying,

606
00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:47,479
Speaker 1: that he was protect trying to protect Stephen, and it's

607
00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:52,040
Speaker 1: something serious with bothering him. And so law enfortunately went

608
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:55,040
Speaker 1: back to him because there was some concern in a

609
00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:59,200
Speaker 1: belief that he had witnessed something horrible, not that he

610
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:02,600
Speaker 1: had parked, you know, that he had partaken in anything horrible,

611
00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:05,160
Speaker 1: but that he had witnessed something horrible. So we were

612
00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:08,640
Speaker 1: talking to him about that. We received information from a

613
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:11,960
Speaker 1: cousin and from the school that something was bothering him

614
00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:15,840
Speaker 1: and he was making statements. So going into the interviewing

615
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:19,600
Speaker 1: question again, there was an interview of what we felt

616
00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:23,680
Speaker 1: was a witness until he began making admissions that that

617
00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:28,120
Speaker 1: we were tying him through his involvement in this horrible crime.

618
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:32,680
Speaker 1: If you look at the totality of all the times

619
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:37,520
Speaker 1: that Brendan was interviewed, Tom and Mark Wager did not

620
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:42,799
Speaker 1: threaten him or bade him. They did not put him

621
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:47,080
Speaker 1: under hot wide lights and withhold that's that's not the issue.

622
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:51,360
Speaker 1: That's not the issue. This video again and him answers

623
00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:56,320
Speaker 1: whether a person who was a juvenile was was treated properly.

624
00:42:56,880 --> 00:42:59,640
Speaker 1: There's nobody saying that the detectives beat this kid. No

625
00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:02,720
Speaker 1: one saying that. But that's not the issues. The issue

626
00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:05,520
Speaker 1: whether when you deal with the juvenile and whether you

627
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:08,360
Speaker 1: have somebody who's in a diminished mental capacity with a

628
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:12,799
Speaker 1: seating him answers is proper. And the Supreme Court said

629
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:17,680
Speaker 1: that this is a question. Now number one issue is

630
00:43:18,239 --> 00:43:22,720
Speaker 1: number one. The issue is coersion And he was not correct.

631
00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:26,359
Speaker 1: They did not where did you take many foreigns there?

632
00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:31,160
Speaker 1: Where did you take many statis? And also, don't put

633
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:34,560
Speaker 1: this guy up like he's the sixty I Q. He

634
00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:38,759
Speaker 1: was in mainly mainstream classes at Michikat High school. He

635
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:46,439
Speaker 1: has led classes. Uh, you know, coersion. Coersion is the issue,

636
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:52,040
Speaker 1: I think, and editing is the issue, to be honest,

637
00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:55,600
Speaker 1: I think that's the way the editt Brennan's confession. So

638
00:43:55,640 --> 00:44:00,000
Speaker 1: it's ten minutes, probably ten hours of statement that interviews

639
00:44:00,239 --> 00:44:03,200
Speaker 1: and cherry picked exactly what they wanted you to see.

640
00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:07,520
Speaker 1: That's the issue. It's how they portrayed his confession, how

641
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:11,279
Speaker 1: they portrayed everything else in their film. And that's why

642
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:15,200
Speaker 1: the public felt outraged because when you look at that confession,

643
00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:18,719
Speaker 1: what they showed on making a murder, my heart was broken.

644
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:22,320
Speaker 1: I wanted Brendan to be free, and I think Brendan

645
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:25,200
Speaker 1: is a much different situation than Stephen. I think Brendan

646
00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:27,680
Speaker 1: would have never done anything like this on his own.

647
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:32,080
Speaker 1: But to say Brendan was completely coerced and fed the

648
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:36,040
Speaker 1: answers when he knew there was information that he liked

649
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:40,240
Speaker 1: them too. So I I completely disagree with that part

650
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:43,000
Speaker 1: of it, and I just wanted to say that because

651
00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:45,680
Speaker 1: I think that it's very much unfair with the editor

652
00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:49,200
Speaker 1: the filmmakers did, and John's right. They were advocates for

653
00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:53,040
Speaker 1: Stephen Avery. They they had phone calls with Stephen Avery.

654
00:44:53,080 --> 00:44:55,759
Speaker 1: They were his body. So for them to say that

655
00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:59,440
Speaker 1: they were not looking for UH, they were out for

656
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:03,440
Speaker 1: criminal justice reformed. And tell a truth story, don't don't

657
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:08,040
Speaker 1: impolish it, don't omit, don't place, and don't cut all

658
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:12,000
Speaker 1: important parts of the constetuers whose side. Let people make

659
00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:15,520
Speaker 1: their own decision and show a true story, not their story,

660
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:19,439
Speaker 1: not their force narratives. That's how I feel about how

661
00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:23,320
Speaker 1: people are also by this film. Also, if I've on

662
00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:30,080
Speaker 1: yet um, Also if somebody wants a quick concrete example

663
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:35,400
Speaker 1: of creative editing without looking at ten hours of interviews

664
00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:38,520
Speaker 1: and comparing then to the short ones that were showed

665
00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:41,680
Speaker 1: to making a murderer. Look at some of the graphic

666
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:45,000
Speaker 1: examples that Ken Kratz's book on how that was edited

667
00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:50,719
Speaker 1: from the testimony from the transcripts compared to what was

668
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:54,239
Speaker 1: in making a murderer. Um, you know, it was a

669
00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:58,720
Speaker 1: hack job and it rooted people's lives. Ah. I still

670
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:01,239
Speaker 1: feel sorry for Ken's for what happened to him on

671
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:05,319
Speaker 1: different thing. But the whole thing is, people have to

672
00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:11,680
Speaker 1: remember this is not about Brenda Dassy's capacity somewhere. People

673
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:14,360
Speaker 1: have to remember this is about Teresa hall Box and

674
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:22,000
Speaker 1: what happened to her. It is about Brandon. It's about

675
00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:25,359
Speaker 1: whether juvenile to receive justice, whether he was given due

676
00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:28,680
Speaker 1: process under the law. Those are the legal issues you're raising.

677
00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:33,600
Speaker 1: Those all were a drafted to his appeals and they

678
00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:39,359
Speaker 1: were turned down and actually appealed the same exact right

679
00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:43,000
Speaker 1: and it was rejected. It just this two weeks ago,

680
00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:46,120
Speaker 1: So I'm sorry a week ago, and this is an

681
00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:48,120
Speaker 1: issue that's going to be raised to the Supreme Court.

682
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:50,920
Speaker 1: I mean, it was a very close decision. There was

683
00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:55,040
Speaker 1: a four and what I'm saying and I and that's

684
00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:56,759
Speaker 1: a long shot. And I'll be the first one to

685
00:46:56,800 --> 00:46:59,000
Speaker 1: tell you that that's a long shot. But what I'm

686
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:02,160
Speaker 1: saying is it's Ard wants to get the head its

687
00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:04,759
Speaker 1: head out of the clouds and actually look at this.

688
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:08,359
Speaker 1: It's a question of whether the police should be able

689
00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:12,799
Speaker 1: to interro juveniles and those with limited mental capacities and

690
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:16,520
Speaker 1: use their red technique, which is technique detective use and

691
00:47:16,719 --> 00:47:20,440
Speaker 1: use that changing law. You new, that's changing law. You

692
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:24,120
Speaker 1: know that's not possible at the Supreme court level. They're

693
00:47:24,239 --> 00:47:27,560
Speaker 1: asking to change law. Our program today would not be

694
00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:32,120
Speaker 1: possible without our partners. I really can't thank you enough

695
00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:35,479
Speaker 1: for joining us, and I can't thank our partners enough

696
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Speaker 1: for making our program possible. And I want to thank

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700
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Speaker 1: and Lucy's threatening to get another guinea pig. Okay, you

701
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Speaker 1: know guinea pigs. They do nothing but eating poop and

702
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Speaker 1: sit there and be cute all day. But I have

703
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Speaker 1: a dog, my little monked fat boy, And if you're

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Speaker 1: because when I'm busy on Sirius sex in one thirty

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714
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Speaker 1: you know what I don't have to worry. It's fat

715
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Speaker 1: Boy running up and down the street. Did somebody put

716
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Speaker 1: him in their car as he somehow ended up in

717
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Speaker 1: the puppy penitentiary at the pound. Because guess what, I

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Speaker 1: KC dot com code Nancy link a k C. Thank

737
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Speaker 1: you for being our partner here today. Detective Tom fast Spender,

738
00:49:57,480 --> 00:50:02,000
Speaker 1: Brenda working on the case, John Lee from the Post Crescent,

739
00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:07,800
Speaker 1: and Venu Van Geese. Thank you to all of you listening.

740
00:50:08,600 --> 00:50:10,279
Speaker 1: We are not letting up on the choice of the the

741
00:50:10,320 --> 00:50:15,839
Speaker 1: hallback case. Nancy Grace, i'ms Tories signing off. Goodbye friend,