1 00:00:03,880 --> 00:00:07,160 Speaker 1: On this episode of News World, I'm talking about Stephen Miller. 2 00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:11,160 Speaker 1: He was the senior advisor to President Trump, someone I've 3 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:14,120 Speaker 1: known for years since he worked in the Senate. We 4 00:00:14,280 --> 00:00:18,599 Speaker 1: chatted back in February and just a great podcast when 5 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:20,279 Speaker 1: he first left his role in the White House and 6 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:23,160 Speaker 1: he was being to think about what came next. He 7 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 1: has been a remarkable leader in a conservative movement and 8 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:31,080 Speaker 1: has helped create a brand new organization, America First Legal. 9 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:34,000 Speaker 1: So before we get to Afghanistan, which is really our 10 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:36,440 Speaker 1: topic for today, I want him to say, take a 11 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:40,120 Speaker 1: mind or two and brief you on America First Legal, 12 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:43,559 Speaker 1: which you can learn more about at their website af 13 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:57,760 Speaker 1: legal dot org. Steven, thank you for coming and doing 14 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:01,000 Speaker 1: this and tell us briefly about you're a great new 15 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 1: project on America First Legal. Thank you so much, Nude. 16 00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 1: It's a great thrill to be here for my second time, 17 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:12,800 Speaker 1: and I'm very humbled by your kind introduction considering the 18 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:17,000 Speaker 1: seminal role that you've played in building the conservative movement 19 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:20,520 Speaker 1: as we know it today. When I left the White 20 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:26,479 Speaker 1: House on January twentieth, two thousand and twenty one, I 21 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:31,000 Speaker 1: knew that conservatives needed an answer to the legal machine 22 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 1: that the left had built. The vanguard of the left 23 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:37,280 Speaker 1: legal machine is an organization we all know very well, 24 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:40,400 Speaker 1: which is the ACLU. But underneath it there's a constellation 25 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 1: of many smaller groups, albeit well funded by many of 26 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:51,360 Speaker 1: the Democrats progressive billionaire donors, to advance far left causes 27 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 1: in the courtroom. And we saw it during the Trump 28 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 1: administration over and over again. These left wing groups would 29 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 1: go to a favorable venue, usually say in San Francisco, 30 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:06,520 Speaker 1: get a nationwide injunction, and a policy that was perfectly 31 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:09,560 Speaker 1: lawful would be halted. We need to figure out how 32 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:12,240 Speaker 1: to go to court to stop unlawful policies, which in 33 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:14,360 Speaker 1: the sane world, of course, would be quite a bit easier. 34 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:17,240 Speaker 1: The challenge, though, is that we have never built up 35 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:20,960 Speaker 1: this infrastructure. We have many great legal organizations on the right. 36 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:24,680 Speaker 1: I don't want to suggest that we don't, but those 37 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 1: groups historically have specialized in long haul legal fights where 38 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 1: it takes five or six years and you go to 39 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 1: Supreme Court and you've got a coin toss chance and 40 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:43,519 Speaker 1: winning versus the legal warfare that is needed for today's environment, 41 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 1: where you have to halt the policy in its tracks 42 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:49,240 Speaker 1: before it can cause irreversible damage. So I'll note just 43 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:53,440 Speaker 1: real quickly as an example, we have successfully frozen two 44 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 1: of Biden's equity initiatives that explicitly grant government benefits on 45 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:03,640 Speaker 1: the base of race and explicitly exclude people from receiving 46 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:05,840 Speaker 1: those benefits on the basis of race, something that we 47 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 1: would have thought with an unthinkable only a short time ago. 48 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 1: We've also been advising state ages in their successful litigation 49 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:19,840 Speaker 1: to this point in time, working hand in glove with 50 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:24,240 Speaker 1: some of our best state ages to sue the Biden 51 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:29,240 Speaker 1: administration over their dismantlement of immigration and customs enforcement. And 52 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:32,280 Speaker 1: there was recently a favorable district court ruling in that 53 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 1: case in Texas, also joined by Louisiana, and we're outside 54 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:42,000 Speaker 1: council for Louisiana in that case. And so for the 55 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 1: time being that Biden memo has been frozen. Obviously there 56 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 1: will be appeals. Those are just a few examples of 57 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 1: the work that we're doing to stop bad policies now, 58 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 1: because you know, you win a fight on the merits 59 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 1: six years from now, after a president is long gone. 60 00:03:56,880 --> 00:04:00,280 Speaker 1: It's important, but the damage is already done, and the 61 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 1: republic has already suffered and so we're changing our legal 62 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:05,839 Speaker 1: model to do with the left did, except again we're 63 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:10,840 Speaker 1: fighting illegal policies instead of legal ones. And people can 64 00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 1: learn much more about what you're doing by going to 65 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:17,800 Speaker 1: a legal dot org. Am I right exactly af legal 66 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:20,920 Speaker 1: dot org. Please go. If you sign up, you will 67 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:29,920 Speaker 1: get email alerts with everything that we're doing. So let 68 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 1: me now switch gears totally. You were in the White House, 69 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 1: you saw the evolution of policy, you were in many 70 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:39,920 Speaker 1: of the key meetings. What's your reaction to what you're 71 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:46,720 Speaker 1: living through right now with Afghanistan? One almost fails to 72 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 1: be able to find the words to describe the extent 73 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:55,280 Speaker 1: of the humiliation and the scope of the disaster. You know, 74 00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 1: I think you probably feel the same way nowt and you, 75 00:04:57,760 --> 00:05:02,719 Speaker 1: like me, You've spent a long time studying how to communicate, 76 00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 1: how to find the words to fit the moment. And 77 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 1: this moment is so extraordinary in the worst, most nightmarish 78 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 1: way possible, that my vocabulary fails me because it's so 79 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:23,560 Speaker 1: beyond the realm of normal human behavior. In other words, 80 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:27,279 Speaker 1: when you hear President of Biden say that he is 81 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:29,839 Speaker 1: going to an effect, not his words, but this is 82 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:33,560 Speaker 1: what it basically amounts to, in effect, let the Taliban 83 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:39,359 Speaker 1: dictate the departure date of US troops for the evacuation mission, 84 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:43,599 Speaker 1: knowing full well that we will not be able to 85 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:49,480 Speaker 1: complete the evacuation in time. It comes across verging on sociopathic. 86 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:51,600 Speaker 1: I just don't know what words to use to describe it. 87 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 1: It really is like we are living through an alternate 88 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:59,120 Speaker 1: reality in which the President of the United States does 89 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:04,240 Speaker 1: not even comprehend his responsibilities as commander in chief. I'm 90 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:08,240 Speaker 1: not sure he does, but it's clear that he made 91 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:11,840 Speaker 1: a decision to surrender to the Taliban, and that he's 92 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 1: now writing that out that whatever the consequences, he's almost 93 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 1: angrily determined. I'm struck that he just lies about it. 94 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:21,839 Speaker 1: He says that the other members of the G seven 95 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:24,719 Speaker 1: are all with him, and they're all out there saying publicly, no, 96 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:28,920 Speaker 1: we're not. I've never seen an American president this much 97 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:32,799 Speaker 1: out of touch with reality. I agree. It's quite terrifying. 98 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 1: And you know, the President had an out if he 99 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:43,120 Speaker 1: wanted one, too easily, easily without anyone criticizing or complaining. 100 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:47,680 Speaker 1: Extend the troop evacuation well beyond August thirty first, or 101 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 1: extend the evacuation mission to leave our troops and well 102 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 1: beyond August thirty first, on the simple grounds that the 103 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:57,480 Speaker 1: August thirty first deadline that he'd originally said was not 104 00:06:57,560 --> 00:07:01,720 Speaker 1: an evacuation mission, but an end the military mission and 105 00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:04,320 Speaker 1: the end of the nation building mission. Not only a 106 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:09,679 Speaker 1: single American believe that when he sent some six thousand 107 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:12,960 Speaker 1: troops back to Afghanistan to conduct an evacuation that that 108 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 1: was time limited. The only reason why is best I 109 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 1: can tell that they are cutting it off in August 110 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 1: thirty first, is because the Taliban has drawn a red line. 111 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:28,760 Speaker 1: So we're now in the remarkable position of being dictated 112 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 1: to by the Taliban about our own national security and 113 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 1: the evacuation of our own citizens. Nations have few responsibilities 114 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:40,120 Speaker 1: that are more sacred or fundamental than the protection of 115 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 1: their own citizens, whether they're at home or abroad, and 116 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:47,360 Speaker 1: so to abandon that in deference to the Taliban underscores 117 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:53,240 Speaker 1: one what an unconscionably horrendous withdrawal Biden executed. In the 118 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:56,520 Speaker 1: first place. The Taliban, ever, was given that much leverage 119 00:07:56,800 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 1: by creating this hostage situation, And secondly, it underscores Biden's 120 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:06,120 Speaker 1: complete and total weakness as a leader, that he's unwilling 121 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 1: to turn the tables on the Taliban to regain operational control. 122 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 1: My sense has been that he literally, in his own minds, 123 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:20,000 Speaker 1: surrender that they're now dominant. They're the leaders, they get 124 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:23,400 Speaker 1: to set the terms, and the most powerful nation on 125 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 1: earth is now being dictated to by a seventh century 126 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 1: tribal group. This will be written about in military histories 127 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:35,280 Speaker 1: for millennia. In other words, this is one of the 128 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:42,760 Speaker 1: most stunning, grim milestones any civilization has ever suffered. And 129 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 1: this is a really important point. There's a wide divergence 130 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 1: of opinions within both conservative circles and within the country 131 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:55,959 Speaker 1: at large about the war in Afghanistan, what our mission 132 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 1: should have been, how long we should have stayed there, 133 00:08:57,760 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 1: when we should have left. I have my own very 134 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:04,600 Speaker 1: strongly held us about all of that. But what everyone 135 00:09:04,679 --> 00:09:09,640 Speaker 1: needs to understand is that for a great power to 136 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:17,000 Speaker 1: be humiliated, debased, degraded in this way, as you mentioned, 137 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 1: by a medieval band of radicalized fundamentalists, jeopardizes our security 138 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 1: and emboldens our world's adversaries and ways we can scarcely imagine. Now. 139 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 1: One of the left defenses is that President Trump was 140 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:55,760 Speaker 1: going in the same direction and would have had the 141 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:58,720 Speaker 1: same outcome. But since you were in the room, and 142 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:02,120 Speaker 1: since you know the evolution over a four year period 143 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:05,120 Speaker 1: of the Trump approach to this thing, how do you 144 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:07,959 Speaker 1: answer that and how do you draw the distinction. Yeah, 145 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:10,720 Speaker 1: so I'm glad you asked that question, because it really 146 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:15,400 Speaker 1: is a scurless lie that is being told by a desperate, 147 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:19,440 Speaker 1: failing administration. So let's take a moment to really set 148 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 1: the record straight on this point to President Trump recognized 149 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 1: early on, going back to the campaign, that the nation 150 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:33,920 Speaker 1: building exercise in Afghanistan was not the correct mission. There's 151 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 1: certainly a place in a role for the United States 152 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:40,680 Speaker 1: in the context of the military occupation to create a 153 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:47,360 Speaker 1: sustainable government, but the specific mission of trying to create 154 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:52,320 Speaker 1: a Western style centralized democracy in Afghanistan with a country 155 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:57,000 Speaker 1: that hadn't had a history of successful central government and 156 00:10:57,160 --> 00:11:01,559 Speaker 1: had had a recent end of the twentieth century marked 157 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 1: mostly by tribal civil warfare. President Trump understood that we 158 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:09,960 Speaker 1: needed to be focused on our security objectives, degrading the Taliban, 159 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:16,520 Speaker 1: strengthening the military capabilities of the US back government, and 160 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:21,240 Speaker 1: ensuring that the Taliban understood that providing any kind of 161 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:25,720 Speaker 1: host or venue for terrorism would ensure their demise. Those 162 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:29,600 Speaker 1: were the cornerstones of the Trump strategy. With that in mind. 163 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:35,960 Speaker 1: Early in the Trump administration, he executed a withering assault 164 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:41,760 Speaker 1: on the Taliban, as people remember well, and in twenty nineteen, 165 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 1: when the Taliban violated some of its commitments, he again 166 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:53,600 Speaker 1: dropped huge amounts of ordinances and serious firepower on the Taliban, 167 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:58,959 Speaker 1: sending a very clear message. By early twenty twenty, when 168 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:06,079 Speaker 1: America's exit negotiations were underway, until present day, there was 169 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:11,120 Speaker 1: not a single troop casualty in Afghanistan, even as we 170 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:13,840 Speaker 1: drew down to a force of two thousand and five hundred. 171 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 1: The reason for that was because President Trump had communicated 172 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:21,960 Speaker 1: so clearly to the Taliban that if they crossed any 173 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:25,559 Speaker 1: of his red lines that he would decapitate their organization 174 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:31,239 Speaker 1: and its leaders. And he had a credible deterrence framework 175 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:33,880 Speaker 1: because the Taliban had seen what he had done, not 176 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:37,120 Speaker 1: just to outback Daddy of ISIS and not just to 177 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:42,600 Speaker 1: ISIS overall, but very importantly to solomany in Iran, because 178 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:45,600 Speaker 1: what it demonstrated was that nobody is off limits, that 179 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:48,559 Speaker 1: anybody in your organization can be killed at any time, 180 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:52,000 Speaker 1: in any way, in any location. And the peace deal 181 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:54,840 Speaker 1: had a series that Pompeo had worked. One had a 182 00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:58,640 Speaker 1: series of benchmarks the Taliban had to meet in terms 183 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:03,800 Speaker 1: of its relationship the host government, in terms of its 184 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:07,240 Speaker 1: behavior in contact towards you as troops and our allies 185 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:10,720 Speaker 1: in the country, in terms of its participation in the 186 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:15,720 Speaker 1: political process, and it didn't mean any of those, then 187 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:18,960 Speaker 1: the pull down of troops would be frozen and punishments 188 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:23,160 Speaker 1: would be delivered. It was a very specific The President 189 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:26,520 Speaker 1: used this race conditions based withdrawal because again the President, 190 00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:30,440 Speaker 1: although he disagreed strongly with the twenty years that had 191 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:34,120 Speaker 1: been spent nation building, he understood that how we left 192 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:39,520 Speaker 1: mattered immensely, notwithstanding all the mistakes that I made before, 193 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:43,320 Speaker 1: mattered immensely for the security and the prestige of the 194 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:47,080 Speaker 1: United States and the safety of its citizens. So if 195 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:50,199 Speaker 1: he had still been in office today, there would never 196 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:52,600 Speaker 1: have been a scenario where the embassy would have been 197 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:55,319 Speaker 1: abandoned in the first place, because the Taliban would have 198 00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:58,560 Speaker 1: understood that if even attempted to get within a stone's 199 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:00,920 Speaker 1: throw of the embassy, it would have all been killed. 200 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:04,040 Speaker 1: So it would have been a question likewise with our airpace, 201 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:08,040 Speaker 1: likewise with anyone we wanted to evactuate from the country. 202 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:10,840 Speaker 1: The President has talked about the fact that if you 203 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:16,720 Speaker 1: were to do an emergency evacuation, that even a child's 204 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:21,120 Speaker 1: intelligence would tell you that you would take out your assets, 205 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:25,040 Speaker 1: your equipment, and your personnel before your troops. But that 206 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:28,240 Speaker 1: emergency scenario I it would have never even come to 207 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 1: pass in the first place, because the Taliban would have 208 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 1: understood that if they crossed any of the red lines 209 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:36,640 Speaker 1: we set out for them, they would have been met 210 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:40,120 Speaker 1: with deadly firepower very quickly. It's interesting to me that 211 00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:46,600 Speaker 1: in a sense, Trump understood what Reagan and Nixon understood, 212 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:51,640 Speaker 1: which is that having your opponent believe that you are 213 00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:55,400 Speaker 1: prepared to go to what to a normal person would 214 00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:59,160 Speaker 1: seem like in irrational length, but in the real world 215 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:05,280 Speaker 1: is utterly totally irrational, because you are trying to signal 216 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 1: your opponent a willingness to cause them enough pain that 217 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:12,960 Speaker 1: they have to back off. And when you're dealing with 218 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:16,320 Speaker 1: a group like the Taliban, almost nobody in the West 219 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:21,480 Speaker 1: understands this is a genuinely seventh century group. They don't 220 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:24,000 Speaker 1: regard dying the same way we do. They have no 221 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 1: concept of citizenship, They have no concept of any of 222 00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:29,920 Speaker 1: the things the state departments tried to do for twenty 223 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:34,400 Speaker 1: years because they represent an alternative civilization. They don't represent 224 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:39,120 Speaker 1: a subset of our civilization. And I think that President 225 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:41,240 Speaker 1: Trump consistently if you look at how he dealt with 226 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:43,600 Speaker 1: North Korea, we look at how he dealt with China, 227 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:46,360 Speaker 1: look at how he dealt with Russia, he was gradually 228 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:51,400 Speaker 1: creating zones of timidity in which our enemies were very 229 00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:55,080 Speaker 1: careful about not getting US to pay too much attention 230 00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:57,760 Speaker 1: to them, because they thought we would, in fact be 231 00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:00,360 Speaker 1: the most powerful country in the world. And by trast 232 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:04,680 Speaker 1: What has amazed me the US Military Academy at West Point, 233 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:10,440 Speaker 1: as a special unit that has gathered up information on 234 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:13,520 Speaker 1: terrorism in the Muslim world and has had a lot 235 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:16,600 Speaker 1: of material inisis for example, well, one of the things 236 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:21,000 Speaker 1: they found when they got some of them Lawden's laptop 237 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:25,320 Speaker 1: when they killed him, they found a two ten letter 238 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:30,680 Speaker 1: in which Ben Lawden says, it's very important that we 239 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:36,760 Speaker 1: can target Obama, but we not target Biden because Biden 240 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:39,720 Speaker 1: is so totally incompetent that if we can get him 241 00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:42,840 Speaker 1: to be president, he will just put the America in 242 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:46,480 Speaker 1: total trouble. I'm paraphrasing, but that's close to it. When 243 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:48,920 Speaker 1: you read it, I mean you think to yourself, coming 244 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:51,960 Speaker 1: after Bob Gates saying that he knows of no major 245 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:54,960 Speaker 1: national studio issue in forty years, and which Biden was 246 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:58,200 Speaker 1: on the right side. The question I've been asking is 247 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:02,080 Speaker 1: why are we surprised even Ben Laden could figure out 248 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 1: this guy's not competent. And I think we all saw 249 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:10,240 Speaker 1: him as being clever hiding in the basement. It turns 250 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:12,200 Speaker 1: out this president, you have to come out of the basement, 251 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:16,560 Speaker 1: and then we discover why you were hiding. Yes, very 252 00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 1: well put. And I think that what underscores all of 253 00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:24,679 Speaker 1: this is that for a great power to make peace, 254 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:31,520 Speaker 1: its enemies have to perceive its willingness to use all 255 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:35,240 Speaker 1: of its strength and might. The problem that Biden faces, 256 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:40,240 Speaker 1: which is orders of magnitude even worse than Jimmy Carter, 257 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:44,359 Speaker 1: is the universal perception by all of our nation's enemies 258 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:48,320 Speaker 1: and adversaries that Biden is unwilling to use American strength. 259 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:51,200 Speaker 1: And so again you end up in that very ancient 260 00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:55,240 Speaker 1: problem where weakness invites the aggression and boldness of your enemies. 261 00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 1: The whole Trump doctrine was predicated in the idea that 262 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:04,040 Speaker 1: in order to make the world more peaceful, we had 263 00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:08,560 Speaker 1: to convince our enemies that the president was willing to 264 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:13,199 Speaker 1: use whatever power was necessary to defend those interests. And 265 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:18,639 Speaker 1: that deterrent now is totally evaporated. How much does that 266 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:23,119 Speaker 1: fact lead you to worry, for example, about Taiwan. I 267 00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:26,080 Speaker 1: think that the whole stability of the world, including Taiwan, 268 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:30,320 Speaker 1: is now jeopardized. I mean, it's clear, beyond a shadow 269 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:33,879 Speaker 1: of a doubt that China was not going to move 270 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:36,320 Speaker 1: on Taiwan as long as President Trump was in the 271 00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:39,760 Speaker 1: White House. We knew it. China knew it, Taiwan knew it, 272 00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:42,919 Speaker 1: the world knew it. I think that's very much on 273 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:45,760 Speaker 1: the table today. And I think, frankly, there are a 274 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:48,880 Speaker 1: lot of other places in the world where you're going 275 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 1: to see increasingly belligerent behavior. I mean, we saw, for example, 276 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:55,480 Speaker 1: the spate of cyber attacks against the United States early 277 00:18:55,520 --> 00:19:00,320 Speaker 1: in the Biden administration. We saw the highly provocative, deadly 278 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:04,439 Speaker 1: rocket attacks on Israel, and so I think that's just 279 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:10,240 Speaker 1: the beginning. When America is strong and projects strength outwardly, 280 00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:15,119 Speaker 1: the world is more peaceful. It doesn't mean when America 281 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:18,080 Speaker 1: goes around the world waging war, the world is more peaceful. 282 00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:22,600 Speaker 1: When America projects strength and it's willingness to use it, 283 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:26,400 Speaker 1: the world is more peaceful. And that we've seen now 284 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:31,679 Speaker 1: the comparison in real time between the Trump years versus 285 00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:34,360 Speaker 1: the Obama years before, with the Middle East in chaos 286 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:36,400 Speaker 1: before Trump came into office, and now the Middle East 287 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:39,359 Speaker 1: spiraling back into chaos with Trump out of office. Let 288 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:42,720 Speaker 1: me just think about the comparison to the Middle East 289 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:48,640 Speaker 1: and Obama years with Libya, Syria, the complete stabilization of Iraq, 290 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:54,760 Speaker 1: the rise of isis Trump peace stability order without starting 291 00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:59,720 Speaker 1: a single new war in four years and now Biden 292 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:03,720 Speaker 1: and everything's unraveling again. If that's not a better real 293 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:07,560 Speaker 1: world demonstration of the difference between leading with strength and 294 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:25,480 Speaker 1: leading with weakness, I don't know what is. One of 295 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:28,760 Speaker 1: the things I've been sort of thinking about is we're 296 00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:31,800 Speaker 1: coming up on September eleventh. I think Biden thought was 297 00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:34,760 Speaker 1: going to be this great success moment. The troops would 298 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:37,560 Speaker 1: all be gone, everything would be wonderful, and he would 299 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:40,959 Speaker 1: be the guy who'd ended the war. Instead, I suspect 300 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:47,280 Speaker 1: we may well have Americans hiding in various places in Afghanistan. 301 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:50,119 Speaker 1: I mean, people focus on cobble, but the fact is 302 00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:52,880 Speaker 1: there are Americans all over that country, and it's a 303 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:56,120 Speaker 1: big country, and it's a country of mountains and valleys 304 00:20:56,480 --> 00:21:00,399 Speaker 1: where people are often very isolated. And I sort of 305 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:03,600 Speaker 1: wonder what September eleven this year is going to be, 306 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:07,159 Speaker 1: like it's the twentieth anniversary and in a sense, and 307 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:09,919 Speaker 1: I know this will jar a lot of Americans, but 308 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:16,080 Speaker 1: historians will study the ben Laden campaign, which tested us 309 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:20,080 Speaker 1: by bombing two embassies in a US naval ship and 310 00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:26,160 Speaker 1: then figured out an absolutely extraordinary strategy of using commercial 311 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 1: aircraft to fly into buildings, which is something that Tom 312 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:32,919 Speaker 1: Clancy had written about. It wasn't unthinkable, but that event 313 00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:37,720 Speaker 1: on September eleventh launched a twenty year war in which 314 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:41,080 Speaker 1: I think you could argue that the terrorists won in 315 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:43,760 Speaker 1: every way. I mean the loss of American lives, the 316 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:47,560 Speaker 1: loss of American money, the degree to which our focus 317 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:50,960 Speaker 1: was taken away from our major opponents, China and Russia, 318 00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:53,560 Speaker 1: the fact that in the end we were defeated by, 319 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:56,560 Speaker 1: as I said earlier, twenty first century, the most powerful 320 00:21:56,640 --> 00:22:00,600 Speaker 1: nation that is defeated by a seventh century tribe. I 321 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:05,639 Speaker 1: think it is worthy of the American people demanding a 322 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:10,959 Speaker 1: really deep, thorough review of what went wrong, what do 323 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:12,560 Speaker 1: we need to learn, and how do we need to 324 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:17,159 Speaker 1: profoundly change our entire national security apparatus. But I'm curious 325 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:20,080 Speaker 1: your thoughts on Stephen. Yeah, I mean, well, I could 326 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:21,920 Speaker 1: talk about this for hours. I mean because I saw 327 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:26,600 Speaker 1: it up close and personal about the strategic failures and 328 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:33,160 Speaker 1: short sightedness of the foreign policy establishment and the Pentagon 329 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:35,720 Speaker 1: in particular. And I know Pompeio could speak at length 330 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:38,639 Speaker 1: about the State Department, but let's just focus on the 331 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:42,800 Speaker 1: Pentagon for a moment. In every interaction I had with 332 00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:45,399 Speaker 1: the Pentagon, and I would always press on this point, 333 00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:53,800 Speaker 1: they never seemed to be even remotely intellectually curious about 334 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:58,920 Speaker 1: why the Taliban had been so resilient in twenty years 335 00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:01,639 Speaker 1: of war. I would always ask the question, what's the 336 00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:04,640 Speaker 1: reason why the Taliban has managed to survive this long, 337 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:07,639 Speaker 1: to hold out so long, to perform so well? And 338 00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:09,560 Speaker 1: they never had an answer for the question. They didn't 339 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:11,159 Speaker 1: even seem interested in the question. I mean, just the 340 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:14,080 Speaker 1: fact that I was asking it to them struck them. 341 00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:18,919 Speaker 1: As an impertinent distraction. It's just a complete lack of 342 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:25,320 Speaker 1: intellectual curiosity. Likewise, I would say oftentimes, are you would 343 00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:30,320 Speaker 1: all concerned about the fact that so many of the 344 00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:33,760 Speaker 1: people that we're working with in Cobble, This is like 345 00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:37,600 Speaker 1: in twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen, in the heart 346 00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:39,399 Speaker 1: of the war effort, are you concerned that some of 347 00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:42,000 Speaker 1: the people that were working with in Cobble do not 348 00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:44,920 Speaker 1: want to stay or live or remain in Afghanistan? Is 349 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:47,159 Speaker 1: that a bad sign to you? Do you see any 350 00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:51,200 Speaker 1: troubling indications there that the people that are partnering within 351 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:54,600 Speaker 1: the war effort are really eager to leave Afghanistan as 352 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:56,639 Speaker 1: soon as humanly possible. Like that would seem to me 353 00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:58,480 Speaker 1: to be a troubling sign, like they don't have a 354 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:00,560 Speaker 1: lot of faith this thing is going to work out. 355 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:01,959 Speaker 1: And they're the ones that have been living there their 356 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:05,640 Speaker 1: whole lives. And again, they never understood the question. They 357 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:07,879 Speaker 1: thought it was a strange thing to even ask. They 358 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:09,760 Speaker 1: would always say, no, no, no no, no, this is how 359 00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:11,680 Speaker 1: it works. You work with our government and then you leave, 360 00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:14,159 Speaker 1: And they never understood that. That seemed to be a 361 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:17,680 Speaker 1: really bad omen for the war effort. There's an intellectual 362 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:21,960 Speaker 1: rot in the Department of Defense in the upper echelons, 363 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:24,160 Speaker 1: and I want to be very clear here. There are 364 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:30,080 Speaker 1: some amazing, extraordinary people in the Pentagon, and many of 365 00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:34,720 Speaker 1: our generals have served valiantly in many conflict zones. But 366 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:38,160 Speaker 1: from a strategic standpoint, we have fallen a long way 367 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:44,000 Speaker 1: from the brilliant occupation of Japan. There is no desire 368 00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:52,040 Speaker 1: on the part of the elite military leadership to critically 369 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:56,560 Speaker 1: examine the mistakes that were made in the early days 370 00:24:56,560 --> 00:25:01,160 Speaker 1: of Afghanistan in trying to impose our vision of government 371 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:04,320 Speaker 1: on a country that had no experience with that kind 372 00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:08,639 Speaker 1: of government. What are the extraordinarily simplistic assumptions that was 373 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:14,240 Speaker 1: made was that if you opposed the Taliban, then ipso facto, 374 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:16,439 Speaker 1: you supported the American style government like it was a 375 00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:19,640 Speaker 1: binarian thing. And so to this day we still continue 376 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:22,199 Speaker 1: to believe that. It would be like saying in Iraq 377 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:27,760 Speaker 1: that if you opposed Sodom's Sunni government, that meant you 378 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:30,919 Speaker 1: were an American democrat. No, it can mean a million 379 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:34,200 Speaker 1: different things, including that you were a Shia ultra nationalist. 380 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:40,919 Speaker 1: There was just zero desire to understand the early Thursday 381 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:42,960 Speaker 1: been made and to do a course correction. And I 382 00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:45,960 Speaker 1: would just close on this point by saying that I 383 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:52,320 Speaker 1: think the biggest lesson here is that you can't hand 384 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:56,840 Speaker 1: somebody a copy of the American Constitution, put a bunch 385 00:25:56,880 --> 00:26:00,280 Speaker 1: of ships in their capital city and then expect this 386 00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:04,720 Speaker 1: is going to take. You need to create a transition 387 00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:10,520 Speaker 1: into a government that is consistent with the country's history, 388 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:16,480 Speaker 1: its geography, its culture, and it's people's desires. And that 389 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:18,920 Speaker 1: was a spectacular failure on the part of the Pentagon. 390 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:21,920 Speaker 1: And to this day they only can measure our failure 391 00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:24,280 Speaker 1: in terms of how many bodies we put on the 392 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:26,560 Speaker 1: ground and how many bodies we put in harm's way. 393 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:29,720 Speaker 1: And that's just a completely simplistic way of looking at it. 394 00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:33,679 Speaker 1: John Nagle, when he was an Army major, wrote a 395 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:38,080 Speaker 1: book called Eating Soup with a Knife, which is a 396 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:42,399 Speaker 1: te Lawrence phrase for how hard guerrilla warfare is. And 397 00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:49,280 Speaker 1: Nagle's book is the most devastating intellectual take on Vietnam 398 00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:53,720 Speaker 1: and comparing what General Thompson had done in Malaya with 399 00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:57,400 Speaker 1: the British where they defeated the Communist in a guerrilla war, 400 00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:01,280 Speaker 1: with what the Americans did in Vietnam. I actually read 401 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:04,800 Speaker 1: the book because General Petraeus thought that it was extraordinarily helpful. 402 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:08,400 Speaker 1: But I called Nagol and I said, how did your 403 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:12,480 Speaker 1: career survived this book? And he said, well, nobody in 404 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:16,600 Speaker 1: the army reads, so the book was a non event. 405 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:19,719 Speaker 1: I almost think September eleventh ought to be a teaching 406 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:24,440 Speaker 1: and we ought to have every military professional school to 407 00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:29,160 Speaker 1: cross the system at least stop and say, we lost 408 00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:33,320 Speaker 1: a twenty year war. What is it we should be 409 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:36,919 Speaker 1: thinking about now? When we came out of Vietnam, we 410 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:41,679 Speaker 1: had a group of extraordinarily courageous officers who literally rebuilt 411 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:47,000 Speaker 1: the American military under Reagan and learned the lessons, applied 412 00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:51,480 Speaker 1: it to intense combat, and it was the force which 413 00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:55,439 Speaker 1: won so decisively twice in Iraq and would probably have 414 00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:59,520 Speaker 1: defeated the Soviets pretty decisively. But these were guys who 415 00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:02,520 Speaker 1: started from you know, we've got our tail beat and 416 00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:05,800 Speaker 1: we need to rethink all this. And I don't sense that, 417 00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:09,120 Speaker 1: ton I mean, they're more concerned right now about being 418 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:13,080 Speaker 1: woke than about being victorious, and that is an enormous 419 00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:17,040 Speaker 1: threat to the survival of America. That's precisely right, and 420 00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:19,320 Speaker 1: that's one of these huge blind spots, and that you 421 00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:24,160 Speaker 1: talked about trying to export Western values in Western democracy 422 00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:29,720 Speaker 1: to Afghanistan. That included, incredibly on the part of the 423 00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:32,879 Speaker 1: State Department and non governmental organizations and others, some of 424 00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:38,960 Speaker 1: these very progressive ideologies, including maybe some more mainstream American thought, 425 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:43,600 Speaker 1: but which wasn't very popular in Afghanistan. And you know, 426 00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:45,120 Speaker 1: one of the things and that part of the world 427 00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:48,040 Speaker 1: that we have to understand to be blind, is that 428 00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:51,680 Speaker 1: people respect strength. And if you look at the Middle 429 00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:54,760 Speaker 1: East and Southeast Asia, I mean that's very clear, is 430 00:28:54,760 --> 00:29:00,400 Speaker 1: that people respect strength, including our enemies, including the town Alaban. 431 00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:03,720 Speaker 1: And when you remove that component and you're left with 432 00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:09,560 Speaker 1: the State Department's pathetic illusions to international norms, you become 433 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:12,800 Speaker 1: a joke, You become a laughing stuck. And that's unfortunately 434 00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:15,040 Speaker 1: what's happened in Biden. And the last thing I'll say 435 00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:19,480 Speaker 1: on this point is that it is indeed an unimaginable 436 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:22,920 Speaker 1: tragedy that we are where we are twenty years after 437 00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:27,200 Speaker 1: the murderous terrorist attacks of nine to eleven. And I 438 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:31,400 Speaker 1: think that we have to be clear also when saying 439 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,080 Speaker 1: that we have to look at the failures both of 440 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:39,000 Speaker 1: the American left that we are seeing today in spectacular form, 441 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:42,440 Speaker 1: as well as the failures that took place in the 442 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:49,320 Speaker 1: Bush administration where we went down this democracy building road 443 00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:52,760 Speaker 1: in the first place, that took our eye off the 444 00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:55,960 Speaker 1: core mission, and that also has to be part of 445 00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:59,160 Speaker 1: the reevaluation. Yeah, I think that's right. I remember in 446 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:04,480 Speaker 1: two thousands being involved in arguments trying to explain that 447 00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:08,880 Speaker 1: the Taliban was a non negotiable group, that they didn't 448 00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:11,440 Speaker 1: want to be citizens, they didn't want to be part 449 00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:14,960 Speaker 1: of a modern democracy, that in fact it violated their 450 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:18,360 Speaker 1: religious beliefs at the most fundamental level, and that we 451 00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:21,560 Speaker 1: were totally misguided in how we were trying to deal 452 00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:25,840 Speaker 1: with radical Islam. And we lost that because the Republican 453 00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:30,760 Speaker 1: and democratic establishments flinched at the idea that these people 454 00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:35,040 Speaker 1: in fact are anathetical to our way of life, and 455 00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:38,200 Speaker 1: they had to keep somehow projecting that, oh, they must 456 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:41,840 Speaker 1: be misunderstood, if only we could find a way to communicate. 457 00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:44,640 Speaker 1: And it's one of the reasons I went back that 458 00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:49,640 Speaker 1: found Churchill's article and his speech in the Parliament on 459 00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:54,480 Speaker 1: Hitler taking the Rhineland and militarizing at the nineteen thirty five, 460 00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:58,120 Speaker 1: which is the first overt act of moving towards World 461 00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:01,600 Speaker 1: War two. And you realize is that Churchill, who's the 462 00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:05,480 Speaker 1: only British politician who'd actually read mindcomp is telling all 463 00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:08,640 Speaker 1: of them, if you don't act now, it's going to 464 00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:11,520 Speaker 1: get worse and it's going to ult only lead to 465 00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:15,240 Speaker 1: a big war. We need that kind of understanding. These 466 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:17,400 Speaker 1: guys aren't going to go home. They're not going to 467 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:21,320 Speaker 1: roast a goat and have a party on September eleventh. 468 00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:24,440 Speaker 1: They're going to be plotting how do we extend our 469 00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:27,479 Speaker 1: values across the planet. How do we take eighty billion 470 00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:31,040 Speaker 1: dollars of American equipment and get it to Nigeria and 471 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:35,560 Speaker 1: Somalia and Indonesia and you name it. How do we 472 00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:38,040 Speaker 1: figure out ways to hurt America again? Because we've now 473 00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:41,520 Speaker 1: been convinced they can be beaten, so let's still beat them. 474 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:45,120 Speaker 1: I think it's a very dangerous time and requires us 475 00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:48,560 Speaker 1: to profoundly rethink. I know you have been very generous 476 00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:52,840 Speaker 1: with your time today. You have remarkable insights across a 477 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:55,720 Speaker 1: broad range of things. I do want to remind people 478 00:31:56,120 --> 00:32:00,360 Speaker 1: that Stephen is deeply involved with America First Legal and 479 00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:03,480 Speaker 1: that we'll have on our show page away to reach 480 00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:06,600 Speaker 1: the website at af legal dot org. Steve, and I 481 00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:09,080 Speaker 1: just want to thank you for taking time out of 482 00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:12,120 Speaker 1: your busy schedule to share these insights with us. Well, 483 00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:14,440 Speaker 1: I want to thank you for having me on again 484 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:18,560 Speaker 1: and for your insights. And I was just closed by 485 00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:23,600 Speaker 1: saying that we are truly witnessing in real time an 486 00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:30,720 Speaker 1: unfathomable historic catastrophe, and it is both at once sad 487 00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:34,959 Speaker 1: and depressing and terrifying. But I would say that we 488 00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:39,560 Speaker 1: need to apply our energies constructively and realize that even 489 00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:44,040 Speaker 1: in this extraordinary disaster that we're in, we have to 490 00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:49,760 Speaker 1: be thinking about how to regain sane congressional majorities and 491 00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:57,240 Speaker 1: regain sane, constructive leadership in this country so that it 492 00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:02,080 Speaker 1: doesn't truly become midnight for America. And on that note, 493 00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:04,440 Speaker 1: I think we're both optimists and we think, in fact, 494 00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:07,680 Speaker 1: as Ronald Reagan wants to campaign, that it can be 495 00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:10,640 Speaker 1: morning in America again. But we have got to get 496 00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:13,040 Speaker 1: through the next couple of years of a very very 497 00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:21,200 Speaker 1: hard slog. Thank you, very very much, Thank you, Thank 498 00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:24,000 Speaker 1: you to my guest, Stephen Miller. You can learn more 499 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:28,200 Speaker 1: about America first legal on our show page at newsworld 500 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:32,400 Speaker 1: dot com. News World is produced by Gingwish three sixty 501 00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:38,360 Speaker 1: and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is Debbie Myers, our producer 502 00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:43,520 Speaker 1: is Garnsey Sloan, and our researcher is Rachel Peterson. The 503 00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:48,080 Speaker 1: artwork for the show was created by Steve Pendley. Special 504 00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:51,000 Speaker 1: thanks the team at Gingwish three sixty. If you've been 505 00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:54,600 Speaker 1: enjoying news World, I hope you'll go to Apple Podcasts 506 00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:57,960 Speaker 1: and both rate us with five stars and give us 507 00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:01,360 Speaker 1: a review so others can learn what it's all about. 508 00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:05,320 Speaker 1: Right now, listeners of news World can sign up for 509 00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:10,160 Speaker 1: my three free weekly columns at Gingwich three sixty dot 510 00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:15,560 Speaker 1: com slash newsletter. I'm Newt Gingrich. This is news World.