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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on

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Speaker 1: iHeartRadio and welcome back to Coast to Coast George Nori

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Speaker 1: along with author Mark Shaw. His books are listed on

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Speaker 1: the Coast to Coast dot com website linked to his

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Speaker 1: website but that they include Collateral Damage, Denial of Justice, Whiting,

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Speaker 1: Poor Justice, The Reporter Who Knew Too Much, mysterious death

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Speaker 1: of Reporter Dorothy Kilgallen, and more and more and more.

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Speaker 1: The President's Commission on the Assassination of President Kennedy, known

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Speaker 1: unofficially as we all know it is the Warrant Commission,

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Speaker 1: was established by President Lyndon Baines Johnson through Executive Order

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Speaker 1: eleven eleven thirty on November twenty ninth, nineteen sixty three,

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Speaker 1: to investigate the assassination of the President John F. Kennedy

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Speaker 1: that took place fifty nine years ago November twenty second,

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Speaker 1: nineteen sixty three. Let's talk about that commission, Mark, and

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Speaker 1: tell us about the people he selected to be on it.

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Speaker 1: I want to preface by saying, George, as you know

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Speaker 1: and your listeners know, I've had a great advantage over

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Speaker 1: any researchers who've ever looked at the assassination because on

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Speaker 1: my team is Dorothy Kilgallen. And you know, she started

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Speaker 1: out when she went to Dallas writing these columns, the

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Speaker 1: Odd Oswald file, Muscott clothes. Uh, you know, justice is

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Speaker 1: the big rug, the bold, this bold and unnerving. You know,

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Speaker 1: statement made anybody realize, you know, a lot of people

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Speaker 1: fall out when you when you pull the rug under them.

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Speaker 1: So she did that. Then she interviewed Jack Ruby there

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Speaker 1: and in the book, in the new book, and there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of new evidence in the book. But one

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Speaker 1: it is a chronology that she wrote in one of

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Speaker 1: the columns about Jack Ruby and uh, you know when

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Speaker 1: she interviewed him twice, the only reporter to do that.

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Speaker 1: So she's going to come back into play here. Here's

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Speaker 1: here's what happened. I wasn't going to write this book

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Speaker 1: fighting for Justice. I think I've written enough of them.

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Speaker 1: But I found a lot of new evidence that's in

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Speaker 1: the new book. I've got to Ruby's psychiatric test, his

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Speaker 1: light detector test. I've got you all kinds of new

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Speaker 1: information about the Kennedy's and so on and so forth

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Speaker 1: that way. But I'd ever thought there was enough evidence.

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Speaker 1: But in February of this year, I got an email

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Speaker 1: from a gentleman who had watched a presentation of mine

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Speaker 1: at the Allan Library near Dallas. It actually went viral

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Speaker 1: on YouTube, and he sent an email and the keywords

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Speaker 1: in there mister Shaw, I want to talk to you.

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Speaker 1: I knew Dorothy Kilgallen, and so my ears perked up

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Speaker 1: and I called him and he said, well, yes, mister Shaw,

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Speaker 1: my name is Morris Wolfe, and Morris wolf is a

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Speaker 1: very distinguished statesman in many ways. He was a Yale lawyer,

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Speaker 1: went to Amherst. People can look at his at the

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Speaker 1: website for Amherst to College, for instance, and see all

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Speaker 1: about him. But he was a very distinguished man. And

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Speaker 1: he ended up being an assistant to Bobby Kennedy when

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Speaker 1: Bobby Kennedy was the Attorney General and Jack Kennedy was

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Speaker 1: in the White House. And he started off by saying, well,

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Speaker 1: I need to tell you about that, and also some

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Speaker 1: about the Kennedy brothers. Jack used to get jealous when

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Speaker 1: Bobby was getting too much publicity and things like that.

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Speaker 1: But they trusted me enough, mister Shaw, that I was

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Speaker 1: their go between taking messages from the White House to

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Speaker 1: the Attorney General's office. I would ride my bicycle or

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Speaker 1: run back and forth with messages between the two because

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Speaker 1: they thought that Jay Edgar Hoover was probably tapping their phones.

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Speaker 1: Now this is the President of the United States and

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Speaker 1: the Attorney General, but they were worried about that. So

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Speaker 1: he said, I worked for Senator Kennedy and I helped

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Speaker 1: him write Title two of the Civil Rights Act. And

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Speaker 1: so I'm thinking, man, this guy sounds like a real

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Speaker 1: legitimate source. And then he said, listen, I should tell

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Speaker 1: you that then, Bobby Kennedy, he recommended me to a

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Speaker 1: member of the Warren Commission. And I'm going to keep

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Speaker 1: the name of that Warren Commission member a little bit

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Speaker 1: in suspense so people might be able to try to

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Speaker 1: guess who it was. Of those seven members. He said,

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Speaker 1: I was a legislative assistant for him, mister Shaw, and

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Speaker 1: I worked with him, and I even rode with him

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Speaker 1: to the Warren Commission hearings in his sob. He was

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Speaker 1: about six foot three. He barely could get in there.

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Speaker 1: But on the way that we when we went to

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Speaker 1: the hearings, he started talking to me about some of

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Speaker 1: the problems that he saw with the Commission and what

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Speaker 1: they were doing, and in order he went ahead and

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Speaker 1: he said, you know, uh, you know, the senator said

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Speaker 1: to me, you know, mister Shaw, there's there's corruption at

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Speaker 1: the Warren Commission, and I don't know why. Uh. They

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Speaker 1: know all about this is one of the most important

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Speaker 1: they all they know all about Jack Ruby and his

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Speaker 1: connection to organized crime, but they don't care. President Johnson

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Speaker 1: and Earl Warren are pushing the Oswald alone theory and

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Speaker 1: I and that's not what I believe really happened here. Uh.

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Speaker 1: They are going to they are going to report the

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Speaker 1: Oswald alone conclusion that he say it's for God and country.

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Speaker 1: But I don't believe that's true. I've offered a letter

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Speaker 1: of resignation and I have that letter as a matter

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Speaker 1: of fact, from from this gentleman, and on and on,

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Speaker 1: and I'm just writing all this down as quickly as

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Speaker 1: I could. And he said, yes, he said, this man

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Speaker 1: was a real man of integrity. He was a senator,

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Speaker 1: he was well respected by an awful lot of his

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Speaker 1: colleagues and all of that, and he was actually I

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Speaker 1: have the audio tapes between JFK and excuse me, JEdgar

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Speaker 1: Hoover and UH and Lyndon Johnson when they're picking the

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Speaker 1: Warren Commission members and they only try to pick those

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Speaker 1: who will go along with Oswald alone, and we can

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Speaker 1: talk about what their motive was. And some of them

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Speaker 1: hated Kennedy. They did well, you've got Alan Dullis, for instance,

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Speaker 1: on there, and JFK had just fired him as the

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Speaker 1: as CIA director. So we'll go through the members in

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Speaker 1: a minute. But he said, you know, um, they basically

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Speaker 1: just picked, you know, people that they wanted, and one

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Speaker 1: of them that was this senator because he was so

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Speaker 1: well respected and everything else. So my I'm really listening

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Speaker 1: to this, and he said, you know that this senator,

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Speaker 1: he was able the whistleblower here, mister Wolfe was able

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Speaker 1: to sit in on the hearings waiting for the senator

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Speaker 1: to go back to the office and all of that.

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Speaker 1: So I looked at all that and I thought, boy,

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Speaker 1: this is fascinating. He said, also, mister Shaw, I should

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Speaker 1: tell you, and this was the kicker, George, I don't

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Speaker 1: know how these things happen to me, but they do.

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Speaker 1: It's like magic, and I think Dorothy orchestrated it. Morris

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Speaker 1: Wolfe said, you know, I used to go to parties

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Speaker 1: at this senator's home at twenty ninth and End Street

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Speaker 1: in Georgetown. He called him soirees. They were parties, and

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Speaker 1: he said, I was invited because I was a bachelor.

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Speaker 1: This is what mister Wolfe told me. And he said,

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Speaker 1: you know, mister Shaw, I said at the dinner table,

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Speaker 1: right next to Dorothy Kilgallen, and my wife will tell you.

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Speaker 1: I just screamed. I mean, I couldn't believe that that

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Speaker 1: could happen. He said, yes, he said, he described her

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Speaker 1: as a bright light bulb. And he said, even though

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Speaker 1: we were having our dinner, she was an investigative reporter

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Speaker 1: at the dinner table, trying to get information out of

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Speaker 1: me about the Warren Commission and this senator and all

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Speaker 1: this other kind of stuff. And he said, you know,

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Speaker 1: she and the and the senator were very good friends

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Speaker 1: jack Kennedy and Jackie actually showed up a few times there.

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Speaker 1: And in fact, this senator and his wife were very

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Speaker 1: close friends of Jackie and President Kennedy. They were the

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Speaker 1: first couple to be invited to the White House. And

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Speaker 1: so I'm listening to all this and I'm thinking to myself,

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Speaker 1: what in the world is us all about? And finally

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Speaker 1: he said to me, you know, I can tell you,

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Speaker 1: mister Shaw. Another thing you know, I know in one

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Speaker 1: of your books that I've read, you always wondered how

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Speaker 1: Dorothy Killgallan ended up with Jack Ruby's testimony before the

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Speaker 1: Warren Commission before it was supposed to be released. You know,

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Speaker 1: that was a really big deal when she did that,

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Speaker 1: huge Hoover went nuts, who went crazy with it and

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Speaker 1: sent agents over to her home. I have that visual

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Speaker 1: of these two burly agents confronting little Dorothy, who doesn't

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Speaker 1: have a lawyer, and it's interest thing what she said, George,

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Speaker 1: She said they asked her where she got them? She said, well,

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Speaker 1: did you get him from somebody on the Commission? I

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Speaker 1: won't answer that question. Did you get him from a

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Speaker 1: man or a woman? I won't answer that question. Uh

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Speaker 1: you know, did did you were you paid? Did you

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Speaker 1: pay to get the conversation the testimony by by Ruby? No?

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Speaker 1: And she said it's I can only tell you it

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Speaker 1: was a friend of long standing who did this. So

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Speaker 1: I think any researcher would do just exactly what I did.

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Speaker 1: I said to Morris Wolf, do you believe that this

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Speaker 1: senator gave Dorothy kill Gallan the Warren Commission Ruby testimony

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Speaker 1: before it was supposed to be released, and he said,

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Speaker 1: mister Shaw, I do and for one reason. I think

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Speaker 1: it's very likely that that happened. For this reason, he

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Speaker 1: was a man of integrity. He hated untruth. He was

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Speaker 1: a man of the truth. And that was exactly what

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Speaker 1: Dorothy kill Gallan was. And I think that's why he

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Speaker 1: would have trusted her for that information. If you look

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Speaker 1: at that interview she had with those FBI agents, she

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Speaker 1: never mentioned him. He could trust her. And so that

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Speaker 1: man's name was Senator John Sherman Cooper of Kentucky, and

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Speaker 1: people can look at his you know, his resume, look

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Speaker 1: into who he was. He was a very distinguished senator there.

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Speaker 1: He was a conservative senator from Kentucky, and you'll be

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Speaker 1: able to see an awful lot about him. But to confirm,

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Speaker 1: as as I do and in all of my books,

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Speaker 1: to confirm Morris Wolfe's account, I did two or three things.

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Speaker 1: First of all, I went to articles I could find

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Speaker 1: about Senator Cooper and worked oh two or three weeks

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Speaker 1: finding the oral histories by Cooper both at the University

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Speaker 1: of Kentucky and at Georgia. At the University of Georgia.

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Speaker 1: And the first thing that popped up. You know, Georgia,

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Speaker 1: I have to say, remember how Dorothy looked at little

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Speaker 1: things regarding the JFK assassination. She never looked at Oswald.

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Speaker 1: She thought that didn't make any sense. She looked at Ruby.

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Speaker 1: And remember she wrote that, hey, you know, this guy

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Speaker 1: says he was crying when he was so upset about

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Speaker 1: JFK's death and everything at the Dallas Morning News. But

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Speaker 1: then in the afternoon he went back and tried to

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Speaker 1: sell these twist boards and and he was laughing with

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Speaker 1: all the people. That didn't make sense to her, and

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Speaker 1: so she knew something was wrong. Well in this situation,

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Speaker 1: what Morris Wolfe told me was a little thing. The

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Speaker 1: parties were at twenty ninth and End Street in Georgetown,

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Speaker 1: and I found out in those oral histories that's exactly

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Speaker 1: where he lived. The second thing was that, you know,

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Speaker 1: with what the with what John Sherman Cooper said to him,

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Speaker 1: it was all about the fact that you know, there

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Speaker 1: were uh, you know, you know, there were no discrepancies

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Speaker 1: in terms of exactly how Cooper was a very good

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Speaker 1: friend of JFK's and of Dorothy. So it could have

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Speaker 1: been the longstanding friendship that she talked about. And then

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Speaker 1: I don't know I sent you a book. I don't

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Speaker 1: know how you have it in front of you. But

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Speaker 1: here's the topper. Maurice Wolfe said, if you look at

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Speaker 1: the cover, you look at the photo of the Warren

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Speaker 1: Commission members giving the report to Lyndon Johnson, I want

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Speaker 1: you to notice something, mister Shaw. And so if you

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Speaker 1: look across there, you're going to see these individuals in there.

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Speaker 1: You're going to see Senator Richard Russell, you're going to

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Speaker 1: see Ford, President Future President Ford, You're going to see

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Speaker 1: Chief Justice Warren, you're gonna see Alan Dulles, and you're

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Speaker 1: going to see Hail Bogs. And then he said to me,

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Speaker 1: if you look at that photograph, and people can do

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Speaker 1: that by going into the Internet and looking at the photograph,

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Speaker 1: but it's on the cover of my book. You're going

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Speaker 1: to see, he said, you will see that one member

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Speaker 1: is almost hiding behind somebody else. And on the right

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Speaker 1: hand side, Senator John Sherman Cooper is almost you can

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Speaker 1: only see part of his face. He has the most

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Speaker 1: disgusted look on his face, and he's pretty much hiding

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Speaker 1: behind Hail Bogs Representative Bogs who died in a plane

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Speaker 1: crash in Alaska, you go. And so that that gave me,

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Speaker 1: you know, more credibility in terms of what Morris had

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Speaker 1: told me. And then I looked in those oral histories

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Speaker 1: and I found documents by written by Senator Cooper, and

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Speaker 1: one of them is that letter of resignation that I

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Speaker 1: don't know if I mentioned that he offered his resignation

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Speaker 1: at one point, and I have that letter. He finally

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Speaker 1: didn't send it, but he was going to. And the

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Speaker 1: reason he didn't send it in a minute, I think

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Speaker 1: will infuriate you as much as it did me. But

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Speaker 1: what he said in there is that listen, you're not

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Speaker 1: even telling me President Johnson, when the meetings are. I've

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Speaker 1: missed so many meetings and and I don't I don't understand.

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Speaker 1: The staff is there, they're doing most of the investigation.

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Speaker 1: And that was true of most all of the Warren

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Speaker 1: Commission members. They never went to a lot of those sessions.

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Speaker 1: And so, you know, that was quite fascinating to me

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Speaker 1: and bothered me. And then I found in the University

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Speaker 1: of Georgia archives that Senator Russell, Richard Russell from Georgia

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Speaker 1: and Senator had demanded a dissent in the final report,

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Speaker 1: and that descent was that they did not believe the

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Speaker 1: silver bullet theory. They did not believe that it was

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Speaker 1: one person who was involved in the assassination. And that's

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Speaker 1: the only way that they signed away on the final report, George.

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Speaker 1: And when that report was finalized and then given to

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Speaker 1: the world, one of the biggest con cons in the

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Speaker 1: history of the world, one of the biggest lies ever,

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Speaker 1: that descent was not in there. It was left out completely.

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Speaker 1: And that's why Senator Cooper was so dissatisfied and upset

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Speaker 1: and offered to resign. In all of that, now, your

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Speaker 1: listeners may be asking a question. You're thinking about, why

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Speaker 1: did Morris Wolfe get in touch with you, first of all,

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Speaker 1: and that was because of Dorothy. Second, why did he

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Speaker 1: trust you with this? And I have to say I

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Speaker 1: believe what he told me was he felt, you know,

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Speaker 1: he could trust me based on my reputation. And why

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Speaker 1: didn't Senator Cooper speak up? And why didn't he speak

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Speaker 1: up almost sixty years ago? And he said, well, Senator

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Speaker 1: Cooper was part of the code of silence that President

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Speaker 1: Johnson and the Chief Justice warre and swore them too,

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Speaker 1: that they would never talk about it, but he said,

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Speaker 1: I'm getting in touch with you now because I think

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Speaker 1: Senator Cooper would want that information known now. And don't

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Speaker 1: you think when Dorothy finally died, they all got scared. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's the other part of the story here. Let's see

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Speaker 1: what Let's see what she knew, George. She was at

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Speaker 1: the Ruby trial, so she watched the testimony, correct, all right.

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Speaker 1: Then she interviews Ruby, so she knows and I believe

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Speaker 1: he told her about the whole Marcello situation that's went

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Speaker 1: to New Orleans, so she knows about that. Then she

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Speaker 1: gets the war and commissioned testimony by Ruby, and she

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Speaker 1: knows if you read it and I have, and if

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Speaker 1: you look at his testimony at trial and I have,

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Speaker 1: they don't even come close to coinciding. And if you

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Speaker 1: look at his psychiatric tests, which I have in the book,

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Speaker 1: it's another version by Ruby. So she knew all that.

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Speaker 1: Then she get and she gets his Warren Commission testimony.

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Speaker 1: Then Morris Wolf when we talk, said she gave him

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Speaker 1: that Warren Commission testimony, but also she let him know

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Speaker 1: about the corruption at the Warren Commission. Now sow, Now

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Speaker 1: Dorothy's goes back to New York, and she starts blabbermouthing

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Speaker 1: about the fact that she's going to crack the case

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Speaker 1: wide open. She's going to put all this material in

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Speaker 1: her book for Random House. She's going to expose what

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Speaker 1: happened with Hoover covering up the assassination and pinpoint that

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Speaker 1: Marcello was responsible for it, and on and on and

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Speaker 1: on and on she tells the wrong people about this,

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Speaker 1: and on you know, November eight, and the ward gets out.

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Speaker 1: She's dead. Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every

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Speaker 1: weeknight at one am Eastern, and go to Coast to

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Speaker 1: Coast am dot com for more