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Speaker 1: The volume.

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Speaker 2: Hi Everybody, Really Good meaty Stuff, thirty minutes of NFL

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Speaker 2: Rumors reporting conjecture with John Middelkoff Love It First, though

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Speaker 2: presented by Netflix's Quarterback docu series. So, one of the

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Speaker 2: reasons you should be a nice guy or a nice

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Speaker 2: woman is because if you work at a company long enough,

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Speaker 2: many of the people you work with will splinter off.

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Speaker 2: They'll leave, they'll move to another department, they'll move to

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Speaker 2: a rival, they'll move crosstown, they'll leave. And so companies

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Speaker 2: more than ever are fluid. Employees more than ever are mobile,

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Speaker 2: and so your reputation will travel. My dad used to

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Speaker 2: say all the time, be nice to people. Lubricate society

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Speaker 2: because at some point your career will be decided by

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Speaker 2: rooms you're not in. You know, people, management will vote

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Speaker 2: on you, owners will discuss you, and so. Kyler Murray

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Speaker 2: is viewed recently as being dysfunctional, but Cliff Kingsbury, he

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Speaker 2: was his coach. Cliff Left, has all sorts of info

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Speaker 2: on Kyler Murray. Steve Kime GM left has all sorts

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Speaker 2: of info. Kim also had a staff. Kingsbury had a

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Speaker 2: staff look at the people over the last three years

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Speaker 2: that have been with the Cardinals executives, coaches, players, Larry

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Speaker 2: Fitzgerald that are now gone, and when people ask all

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Speaker 2: those people about the Cardinals, they ask about one person

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Speaker 2: in particular, Kyler Murray. So I defended Kyler Murray pretty

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Speaker 2: righteously for his first three years. He kept getting better.

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Speaker 2: He threw a beautiful football. He reminded me of a

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Speaker 2: smaller Russell Wilson, who I think is a Hall of Famer.

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Speaker 2: And it's a dysfunctional organization starting with ownership, so tough division,

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Speaker 2: weird ownership. I kind of defended him. I said I'd

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Speaker 2: sign him. You're trapped. You got to have a guy.

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Speaker 2: But what's interesting this off season, as the Cardinals once

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Speaker 2: again have blown up their coaching staff and made changes

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Speaker 2: in the front office, it's amazing when I went to UFC,

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Speaker 2: or when I go out, or when I'm at any

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Speaker 2: sports function that involves anybody in the NFL, how many

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Speaker 2: people are talking about Kyler Murray. And it's not good.

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Speaker 2: So I always say, new information equals new opinion. If

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Speaker 2: you were on a flight and you got new information

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Speaker 2: from the radar, would you want the pilot to avoid

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Speaker 2: a lightning storm or fly through it? If your doctor

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Speaker 2: takes an X ray, your son, your daughter gets new informed.

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Speaker 2: Would you want to stick with what they thought the

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Speaker 2: problem was or would you want them to function based

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Speaker 2: on the new X ray? Fans Earl is, so beholden

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Speaker 2: to you said this a year ago? Yeah, no, shit.

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Speaker 2: Information changes. So my feeling on Kyler Murray today is

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Speaker 2: different than a year ago. There is so much information

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Speaker 2: now that has left that building that it's just incredible. Scouts, coaches, executives,

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Speaker 2: people in this sport talk and they talk about Kyler

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Speaker 2: Murray and I have a hard time with indifference. It's

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Speaker 2: Ben Simmons. It doesn't matter how good you are if

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Speaker 2: you don't love it, if you have to be prodded

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Speaker 2: into prepping, prodded into playing, you don't want to run

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Speaker 2: because you don't want to get hit. I struggle with it.

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Speaker 2: You can have so many flaws. I can't live with indifference.

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Speaker 2: I can deal with ego, I can deal with soft,

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Speaker 2: I can deal with emotional to some level. I can't

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Speaker 2: deal with indifference. Like when I hire people at the volume,

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Speaker 2: are you ready to compete? Do you love your job?

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Speaker 2: There's nothing you can do with indifference. So, Kyler Murray,

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Speaker 2: there's all sorts of comments he made in the last

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Speaker 2: couple of days about last year. It was a negative vibe.

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Speaker 3: It was this.

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Speaker 2: It was that I don't have Kyler Murray as one

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Speaker 2: of the top ten quarterbacks in the league. And I

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Speaker 2: was jotting down a list yesterday morning, just kind of

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Speaker 2: going to the season. And you can say what you

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Speaker 2: want about Kirk Cousins and Dak and Derek Carr. They're

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Speaker 2: not his talent. I would sign them before Kyler Murray.

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Speaker 2: That's how far my opinion has fallen. And it's all

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Speaker 2: based on new information. As Netflix First Partnership with the

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Speaker 2: NFL Quarterback is a new docu series that takes a

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Speaker 2: unique look at each season told through the lens of

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Speaker 2: NFL quarterbacks. For the first time ever, the NFL allowed

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Speaker 2: quarterbacks to be miked for every single game of the season.

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Speaker 2: Three Quarterbacksuz Maholmes and Mariota give behind the scenes access

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Speaker 2: on and off the field. I can't wait to watch

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Speaker 2: this series. Check out the trailer for a first glimpse

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Speaker 2: at what we're gonna see.

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Speaker 1: Netflix is giving you exclusive access to see what it

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Speaker 1: takes to be an NFL quarterback.

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Speaker 3: I'm here all day see.

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Speaker 1: Kirk Cousins, Marcus Mariota and Super Bowl champion Patrick Mahomes

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Speaker 1: balance all the pressures that come with the toughest job

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Speaker 1: in sports.

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Speaker 3: Quarterback is more about the mental scientist.

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Speaker 1: From game day to home life. See these quarterbacks like

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Speaker 1: you've never seen them before. But again, quarter.

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Speaker 3: Quarterback only on Netflix. Watch now. I'm gonna call him

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Speaker 3: the John Facenda of Netflix because he was all over

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Speaker 3: that quarterback documentary. When I flipped it on last night, Colin,

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Speaker 3: what's up?

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Speaker 2: You know they? I said, I don't think it's a

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Speaker 2: coincidence that Hard Knocks announced the Jets the day that

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Speaker 2: thing debuted, Like HBO has owned that space, that insider

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Speaker 2: space for a long time. The Netflix series comes out,

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Speaker 2: HBO's like Jets Aaron Rodgers, and by the way, the

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Speaker 2: Jets twenty four hours later sign Quinn Williams because they

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Speaker 2: didn't want HBO in the building and a holdout happening.

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Speaker 2: They didn't want any I mean, you know how it

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Speaker 2: goes when you're in the up building. If you had

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Speaker 2: to have this intrusive film crew, you're just putting out

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Speaker 2: fires before they get there.

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Speaker 3: My take on Hard Knocks is every series we've ever

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Speaker 3: watched either comes to a conclusion like Seinfeld or Friends,

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Speaker 3: they tap out or it gets canceled. Well, why does

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Speaker 3: Hard Knocks have to go on in perpetuity when all

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Speaker 3: these shows? You know, Hard Knocks has to play to everything, right,

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Speaker 3: the coaches, the players, obviously the star quarterback, but also

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Speaker 3: the guy trying to make the team. I'm watching the

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Speaker 3: quarterback docu series and I'm not trying to public just

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Speaker 3: because we've been talking a lot about it. It's just

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Speaker 3: the quarterback. I mean, it's just the quarterback, the offensive

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Speaker 3: play caller, the head coach. That's all I want. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: because the Hard Knocks is not giving me the inside.

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Speaker 3: They don't talk shit about the players anymore. It's very

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Speaker 3: it's what I can get on all the team's websites.

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Speaker 3: To me, it's random's.

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Speaker 2: Course, Yeah, I think it's very pr heavy. I mean

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Speaker 2: you can literally tell HBO turn the cameras off. There's

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Speaker 2: no insight. Also, it's one of the reasons the NFL

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Speaker 2: network's never been as successful as people thought it would.

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Speaker 2: There's so much duplication on the market. FS one, ESBN

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Speaker 2: all day, all these radio shows talk NFL, so there's

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Speaker 2: no unique conversations whereas baseball, the national talk shows don't

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Speaker 2: talk it ever, ESPN, Fox don't talk, so MLB Network

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Speaker 2: those discussions aren't being had anywhere else, and it makes

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Speaker 2: MLB Network the best of all the networks. It's like

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Speaker 2: really really strong, unique takes that have never been out

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Speaker 2: in the sphere. And I think it's the same thing

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Speaker 2: with HBO. Everybody's got access. It's ramped up over the

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Speaker 2: last ten years, and I just think it's sort of

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Speaker 2: a milk toast. Seen that heard that, viewed that at

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Speaker 2: last two years. I've just watched bits and pieces and

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Speaker 2: sort of thought I was bored.

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Speaker 3: With it for sure. If it wasn't for Aaron Rodgers,

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Speaker 3: I would be out. I would say. The one thing

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Speaker 3: that stood out I just watched the one episode on

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Speaker 3: the Quarterbacks is it was just such an insight over

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Speaker 3: Mariota is a good example of high character. Guy physically

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Speaker 3: has the tools, just isn't good enough. He's just not

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Speaker 3: an accurate he's not a good enough passer. Cousins, your

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Speaker 3: classic overachiever. Gives you everything he has, but it's not

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Speaker 3: the most just a little different kind of weird, you know.

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Speaker 3: He's not I would say beloved in a locker room,

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Speaker 3: and Mahomes is just the total package, has all the

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Speaker 3: physical attributes and is absolutely beloved. Growing up in northern California.

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Speaker 3: You talk to anyone that played with Montana, they still

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Speaker 3: love him to this day. He was just one of

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Speaker 3: the guys and obviously was a great player. Rady had

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Speaker 3: that obviously great player, but those guys swear by him.

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Speaker 3: The human Mahomes, Travis Kelce goes everywhere with them. I

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Speaker 3: mean they are tied at the hip, knowing people in

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Speaker 3: that building. It's the human because all these guys have

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Speaker 3: the talent, like Cousins is more than talented enough to

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Speaker 3: be a top a little bit better than he is,

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Speaker 3: but something's just missing, you know. And when you watch Mahomes,

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Speaker 3: you just go God, the Chief struck oil on that

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Speaker 3: bad boy.

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Speaker 2: Well, I there were several raiders this weekend in Vegas,

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Speaker 2: several raiders and maybe a coach or too at the

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Speaker 2: UFC event, and so I asked them about Derek Carr

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Speaker 2: and they all liked him, but they were all like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: it was time. There wasn't that deep reservoir of allegiance,

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Speaker 2: loyalty or love. Respected him. Thought he was a good dude,

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Speaker 2: but there is something different. There are guys that it's

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Speaker 2: a connectability. It's what I said about Aaron Rodgers. The

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Speaker 2: guys like far more than Aaron. Aaron's just a smarter version,

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Speaker 2: you know Aaron. They're both kind of difficult, little bit

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Speaker 2: ad liberoff script, but I always preferred Aaron. I thought

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Speaker 2: he was more efficient, less risky. But Aaron connects with

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Speaker 2: a finite number of people. Bochdari, Randall Cobb, you know,

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Speaker 2: Jordy Nelson. There's been guys. It's not that he doesn't connect,

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Speaker 2: but you know, Aaron's not for everybody. He's kind of

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Speaker 2: a Hollywood guy. He's a little too cool for the room.

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Speaker 2: Never married, no kids, older player. Almost every old player

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Speaker 2: in the NFL is married with kids, everybody over thirty.

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Speaker 3: Look at Mahomes, he's twenty six, twenty seven, he's got

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Speaker 3: a kid, and he's married.

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Speaker 2: So there's not many quarterbacks that are older, never married,

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Speaker 2: no kids. I mean you can name him on one hand,

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Speaker 2: just ever. So No, I think what Quarterback on Netflix

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Speaker 2: illustrates is that there is they matters a lot, not

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Speaker 2: just the arm talent. The guy.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I was thinking about I was listening this morning

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Speaker 3: about Caleb and being in Scottsdale. Now they're going to

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Speaker 3: be pretty terrible. I would imagine the Arizona Cardinals, and

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Speaker 3: I was thinking I was on a walk last night.

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Speaker 3: If I was him, I would have think about Mahomes, gets,

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Speaker 3: Andy Reid, Brady Belichick, Montana, Young Walsh. Where you go

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Speaker 3: determines a lot of your successes. Of course, a lot

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Speaker 3: of stuff's out of your control, you know. And Sam

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Speaker 3: Darnold's going to be a good example, right, He's clearly

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Speaker 3: never going to live up to the what if he

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Speaker 3: resurrected his career with Kyle Shanahan. It just shows you

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Speaker 3: the power of infrastructure a coach, I would be very

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Speaker 3: hesitant of just the number one. He's already rich. Just

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Speaker 3: going to the number one pick if it's a shit

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Speaker 3: organization column.

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Speaker 2: Also poor owner, defensive coach, no head coaching experience, bad roster.

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Speaker 2: I mean, John Elway and Eli Manning were.

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Speaker 3: Like not going there.

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Speaker 2: If I was Caleb William, I would not go to Arizona.

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Speaker 2: What I would say is I would trade my number

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Speaker 2: one pick. I would take Harrison the receiver at number

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Speaker 2: two with a number two pick, but I would trade

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Speaker 2: the number one pick and I would get as many

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Speaker 2: great players as I could, but Arizona has earned the disrespect.

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Speaker 2: Arizona's reputation has been fostered and created through years of

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Speaker 2: what players view as neglect to the facilities, neglect to

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Speaker 2: them the players. So I would have no problem with

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Speaker 2: you know, I saw Lay and Eli Manning do it.

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Speaker 2: Why can't Caleb Williams say I'm.

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Speaker 3: Not going there? Totally agree? I mean, you watch all

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Speaker 3: these guys go into these terrible organizations. Bryce Young, We'll

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Speaker 3: see how it plays out. God a little lucky right

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Speaker 3: goes to an organization owner as a ton of money,

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Speaker 3: hires a real NFL coach in Frank, he has a

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Speaker 3: fighting chance with the organization. They also have a defense.

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Speaker 3: To me, a situation like that, I to completely understand.

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Speaker 3: But some of these teams in recent memory that are

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Speaker 3: drafting number one derail your career.

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Speaker 2: Let me throw this at you. So, I mean, one

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Speaker 2: of the coaches that's clearly on the hot seat is

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Speaker 2: Brandon Staley with a Chargers, no question if they don't

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Speaker 2: make the playoffs, defensive coach, third year wasting justin Herbert's career,

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Speaker 2: it'll be the only elite quarterback in the league that's

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Speaker 2: not like growing right. So my takeaway is if they

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Speaker 2: don't make the playoffs and in the AFC, you got

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Speaker 2: to win those close games Chargers, which historically you haven't, right,

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Speaker 2: you just can't give away games when you outplay teams.

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Speaker 2: If they fire Brandon Staley, I think they'll make the

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Speaker 2: Calder Lincoln Riley. But what saves USC is that he

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Speaker 2: makes over ten million a year and that he'd want

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Speaker 2: fifteen because he can stay at USC as long as

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Speaker 2: he wants. And I think Kellen Moore would get the

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Speaker 2: job because the spanosays historically don't spend on coaches. You

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Speaker 2: could give Kellen four and a half, you know, four

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Speaker 2: and a half, five and a half, six and a half,

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Speaker 2: But I think the two coaches because you can't go

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Speaker 2: from defensive coach the defensive coach. If no, you'd have

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Speaker 2: to go offense. And my guess is the people in

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Speaker 2: LA would say take Lincoln bruin fans, which chertainly screamed at.

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Speaker 2: But I think but I think Kellen Moore would be

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Speaker 2: next in line. So to me, Brandon Staley has the

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Speaker 2: most heat on him in the league. Is there a second?

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Speaker 3: That's a good question, you know, I think Jerry shown

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Speaker 3: to be a little more patient in fairness Mike for

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Speaker 3: two years that they have been successful, and it's not

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Speaker 3: like they're going up against the bar where it's NFC

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Speaker 3: championship or bust. Right, they haven't been in one in

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Speaker 3: two and a half decades. I would say, you know

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Speaker 3: that it feels like the Tomlin and the Harbaugh feel

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Speaker 3: a little bit untouchable. I saw a story today, and

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Speaker 3: you and I have talked about this over the last

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Speaker 3: several months. It's unique because this guy's won six Super Bowls,

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Speaker 3: but there is a weird elephant in the room. Pressure

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Speaker 3: on Bill. I think there was tangible pressure of him

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Speaker 3: being aggressive and stealing his offensive coordinator from his good

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Speaker 3: friend Nick Saban. Obviously they have a relationship, but you

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Speaker 3: know Nick doesn't love losing offensive coordinators all the time,

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Speaker 3: like he fights to keep those guys. They usually go

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Speaker 3: on to be head coaches, not another offensive coordinator. I

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Speaker 3: guess Brian dabol did it too, But I think there's

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Speaker 3: enough smoke where there is no one's acting like Belichick's

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Speaker 3: the village idiot. But isn't there just a time where

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Speaker 3: every coach, well, usually it doesn't go like Popovich where

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Speaker 3: you just don't win for seven eight years and kind

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Speaker 3: of get to survive. Usually during that period it ends,

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Speaker 3: I don't care how many championships you have in the

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Speaker 3: history of sports, and how are they going to be

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Speaker 3: that good relative to the AFC Colin And also.

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Speaker 2: If you read Ian O'Connor's book on Belichick or Jeff Benedict's,

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Speaker 2: when you start reading these books, it's pretty clear that

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Speaker 2: the Craft family, Robert Steven somebody has been at least

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Speaker 2: one of the sources for some of the Belichick criticism.

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Speaker 2: So it's they, you know, Bill, My wife used to

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Speaker 2: say this, he was an HR for a long time.

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Speaker 2: She said nobody, and it's not true, but she said,

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Speaker 2: very rarely in her career when she fired somebody were

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Speaker 2: they surprised? Right now? Now, we just had some horrible

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Speaker 2: media layoffs, but very rarely as a coach fired, and

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Speaker 2: everybody goes WHOA. When Belichick he's always had kind of

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Speaker 2: a you know, he's short with people. He can be

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Speaker 2: sort of condescending, right media certainly for sure. Obviously he

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Speaker 2: didn't get along great with Brady. No dinners together in

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Speaker 2: twenty some years, so it wasn't great. But for the Crafts,

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Speaker 2: or somebody in their circle. There's a lot of inside

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Speaker 2: information critical of Bill and those books. It had to

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Speaker 2: come somebody in that family or near it. I think

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Speaker 2: they would first go to him and talk about a

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Speaker 2: consulting seven figure consulting role. But fourth place is fourth place,

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Speaker 2: and I think the minute he went defensive coordinator to

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Speaker 2: offensive coordinator, he sort of laid the groundwork because what

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Speaker 2: happened is he not only made the offense worse. It's

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Speaker 2: a little bit of a speed bump for mac Jones,

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Speaker 2: and reportedly Ben Vollen said this week that mac Jones

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Speaker 2: and his family have forged the relationship with the Crafts

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Speaker 2: so smart, so they're hearing things, they're hearing the frustration.

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Speaker 2: I don't think it's outrageous after the year, if Bill

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Speaker 2: steps down and there's a backdoor deal of some monetary

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Speaker 2: noteworthy monetary value.

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Speaker 3: I just don't see in the AFC. I mean, they

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Speaker 3: would have to have the number one defense in the league.

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Speaker 3: They would have to just be an incredible special teams team.

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Speaker 3: Now granted they've been good in those units, but I'm

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Speaker 3: talking the cream of the crop, because just look at

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Speaker 3: their offensive personnel. It's not explosive enough and you can't

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Speaker 3: just go nineteen eighty seven, you know, try to run

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Speaker 3: for twenty eight hundred yards in this leak current league,

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Speaker 3: especially in the division they're in, which can all score points, right,

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Speaker 3: have explosive quarterbacks. The other thing, when you're an owner

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Speaker 3: or you know, and the fans, you get to see

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Speaker 3: the Miami Dolphins offense and Josh Allen and now Aaron Rodgers.

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Speaker 3: That's six games right that your watch and start to finish,

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Speaker 3: and you kind of really know. And they've had a

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Speaker 3: front row seat now in Josh Allen kicking their ass

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Speaker 3: for a little while, and now with Tua being more explosive,

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Speaker 3: or even if Mike White has to play the amount

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Speaker 3: of talent they have on offense, they're going to score

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Speaker 3: points in Miami. So I'm with you. I think he

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Speaker 3: has I think trouble is ahead. You know, it doesn't

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Speaker 3: make him like he's got stupid overnight or now he's

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Speaker 3: an idiot. And I think other teams would be very interested.

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Speaker 3: But that also be interesting, right, a guy over seventy,

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Speaker 3: very stuck in his ways. He was used to making

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Speaker 3: a lot of coin. I mean, someone just giving him

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Speaker 3: four years eighty million dollars.

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Speaker 2: It used to be that Belichick would work young front

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Speaker 2: offices and poorly owned and run franchises like he did

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Speaker 2: a lot of deals with Cleveland, you know, Buffalo. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: the fact that he re signed DeVante Parker, who is

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Speaker 2: last in the league three years in a row at separation,

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Speaker 2: the fact that they signed Juju Smith Schuster. The Chiefs

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Speaker 2: worked the Patriots. The Chiefs got the value in the ring,

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Speaker 2: didn't have to pay Juju. So if the Chiefs now

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Speaker 2: are working the Patriots, people are working the Patriots. It

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Speaker 2: used to be New England work the other teams. So

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Speaker 2: by signing Devonte Parker and not having really a high

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Speaker 2: end tight end, what does it do? It makes Mac

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Speaker 2: Jones less crucial. This team can win one way now,

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Speaker 2: run game and defense.

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Speaker 3: That's it.

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Speaker 2: There is no because Ma's not an offscript player. So

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Speaker 2: what it does is it forces I mean Devonte Parker

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Speaker 2: can only be schemed open. He doesn't get open. So

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Speaker 2: what it does it forces mac Jones to be incredibly coachable.

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Speaker 2: I mean, who in the world in this league, what

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Speaker 2: offensive coach would resign Davonte Parker for three years?

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Speaker 1: None?

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Speaker 3: It's insane.

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Speaker 2: It really forces mac Jones to play Bill's way. That's

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Speaker 2: what it feels like to me. I mean, Juju Smith

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Speaker 2: Schuster kind of a slot guy, doesn't really separate. DeVante

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Speaker 2: doesn't separate. By the way, what do they do in

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Speaker 2: the draft? Two kickers, three guards? Again, speed Deficiency's offense

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Speaker 2: never addressed them. They went three defensive players first, three guards,

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Speaker 2: two kickers, didn't go to receiver until the end. So again,

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Speaker 2: he's creating a team that can win. In Bill's worldview,

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Speaker 2: not Max not where. Remember when Brady and Randy Moss

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Speaker 2: really lit the world up. That's kind of the beginning

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Speaker 2: of where Bill lost his leverage. It wasn't in the

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Speaker 2: super Bowl. It was like, oh, Tom's the greatest quarterback ever,

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Speaker 2: literally shattered records. That's when Tom started doing more commercials,

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Speaker 2: was more comfortable speaking out. And I think that's coin

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Speaker 2: of the tipping point where Bill felt, I'm not going

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Speaker 2: to do that again. He's not going to make a

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Speaker 2: guy and then lose control.

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Speaker 3: One thing that's just been out there now for a

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Speaker 3: while is the Ravens hire a new offensive coordinator. You

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Speaker 3: give a quarterback all this money, you want to pass

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Speaker 3: the ball, and it's just I struggle with when you

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Speaker 3: do something really well, stick with that and then mold

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Speaker 3: around that. I mean, one thing Lamar has had a

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Speaker 3: lot of success is obviously running the ball. Now you

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Speaker 3: have to adapt an offense. Everyone does. But I think

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Speaker 3: it's pretty risky to just try to spread that bad

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Speaker 3: boy out and let a rip. And I know they

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Speaker 3: invest in Odell Beckham, they drafted a first round wide

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Speaker 3: receiver that they are I'm sure going to try to

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Speaker 3: get away from that. Three running backs behind Lamar the

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Speaker 3: zone re just hammer you because that's what he wants

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Speaker 3: to do. Yeah, And historically, when you pay a guy,

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Speaker 3: you know you want to mold him into more of

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Speaker 3: a passer. But to me, that's a very slippery slope, Colin,

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Speaker 3: because when you're good at something, you right that his

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Speaker 3: speed in athleticism is really what makes him an elite

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Speaker 3: player when he's rolling.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean you're a former scout. I thought in

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Speaker 2: year three, I thought he started. I thought the label

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Speaker 2: of can't throw, Not that I dismissed it, but I

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Speaker 2: thought in year three he became situationally a little better

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Speaker 2: thrower than he gets credit for. Like his first year

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Speaker 2: he was a runner, his second year he was a runner,

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Speaker 2: good thrower, leading in a game or play action. He

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Speaker 2: needed clarity, he needed he needed space in year two,

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Speaker 2: so when they were leading, but when he was behind.

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Speaker 2: Remember he struggled to win from behind for the first

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Speaker 2: couple of years. So when coverage draw it for Mahomes

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Speaker 2: is the best quarterback ever. It doesn't matter if you

401
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Speaker 2: drop eight in the coverage, He'll find space. Lamar's first

402
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Speaker 2: year and a half was mostly played well with a lead,

403
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Speaker 2: great on second and two, third and one play action.

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Speaker 2: I did think in year three he became a better

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Speaker 2: I thought he was better throwing when you knew he

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Speaker 2: was throwing. So, I mean there's a lot of guys

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Speaker 2: like not everybody like Russell Wilson. It's not a great

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Speaker 2: pocket passer, is he.

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Speaker 3: No, there's nothing wrong without Most people are not going

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Speaker 3: to be Brady Manning or Briefe. So when you have

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Speaker 3: the athleticism attribute that makes I think Mahomes is probably

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Speaker 3: in the middle. Good athlete like Josh Allen, high end athlete,

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Speaker 3: Andrew Luck when he was playing high end athlete. That's

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Speaker 3: what separates your skills, right and Lamar's skill. I don't

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Speaker 3: even mean always running down the field. I just mean

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Speaker 3: scramble plays like some of the places. Kyle Shanahan uses

417
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Speaker 3: the boots and the nakeds to just get you moving,

418
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Speaker 3: keeps the defense a little bit on their heels, like

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Speaker 3: the Jared Goff. Guys don't really have the ability to

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Speaker 3: do that Kirk Cousins. So when they get themselves in

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Speaker 3: a predicament and everything's not on time, it's kind of

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Speaker 3: fucked right because they can't add lib And that's the

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Speaker 3: mac Jones thing. And I tend to lean just being

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Speaker 3: around Andy Reid likes more athleticism, back to the West

425
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Speaker 3: Coast offense, which they all learn from Walsh to home

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Speaker 3: grind to. They like a guy to just be able

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Speaker 3: to move, just because it opens up the playbook and

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Speaker 3: a lot of times plays if you don't have Manning

429
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:06,280
Speaker 3: or Brady. They most guys can't just make things happen

430
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:08,720
Speaker 3: on their own from within the pocket if it's not there,

431
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:11,080
Speaker 3: so your feet can keep you alive. Really, what make

432
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:13,720
Speaker 3: Russell such an elite player in his prime was not

433
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:17,240
Speaker 3: necessarily running down the field like Lamar Jackson or Kyler Murray.

434
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:19,840
Speaker 3: It was behind the line of scribbage, keeping it alive

435
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:23,000
Speaker 3: and then pushing the ball, you know, twenty thirty yards

436
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:26,200
Speaker 3: to get explosive plays, and I think that's the Caleb Williams,

437
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:28,800
Speaker 3: the drake that's really the modern day player, right is

438
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:33,359
Speaker 3: much more Trevor Lawrence, all the Herberts. It's much more

439
00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:35,960
Speaker 3: of an athletic position than it used to be. More

440
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:40,480
Speaker 3: of these Eli's rivers. Those guys maybe are more likely

441
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:42,639
Speaker 3: to play baseball now and pitch than they are to

442
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:43,840
Speaker 3: be star quarterbacks.

443
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:47,520
Speaker 2: I have kind of a theory on Russell that remember

444
00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:49,440
Speaker 2: how Maddie was when he went to the Super Bowl

445
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:52,040
Speaker 2: and watched Brady win another one, and he was reportedly

446
00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:55,800
Speaker 2: upset because Tom had so much to work with, and.

447
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:57,720
Speaker 3: When he was sitting next to Goodell Yes at the

448
00:24:57,720 --> 00:24:58,280
Speaker 3: Super Bowl.

449
00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 2: And it was frustrated because he had a defensive coach

450
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:04,879
Speaker 2: and Brady had Bruce Arians and he felt he didn't

451
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:07,840
Speaker 2: it was a run dominated offense, whereas Tom could throw

452
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:10,320
Speaker 2: to Gronk and Ab and Mike Evans and Chris Godwin,

453
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:16,000
Speaker 2: and so it was reported that he was very very frustrated,

454
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:19,399
Speaker 2: very very frustrated, and he went back and that kind

455
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 2: of blew stuff up. And so when he went to Denver,

456
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:24,520
Speaker 2: it wasn't a shock because he had a no trade

457
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:31,720
Speaker 2: clause and Denver had remember good young receivers Hamler, Jerry Judy.

458
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:34,920
Speaker 2: They were thought of as having some very interesting young

459
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:38,560
Speaker 2: pieces Garrett Bolls left tackle who eventually got hurt last year.

460
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 2: But it's interesting because last year, as I watched Russell,

461
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:45,879
Speaker 2: it wasn't that he couldn't run. If you went to

462
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:49,800
Speaker 2: late game situations, he was still highly effective. He's never

463
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:52,600
Speaker 2: been a burner. He was just elusive. He bought time,

464
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:55,399
Speaker 2: and so you'd get into these late game situations and

465
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:58,840
Speaker 2: you're like, Ross, you're cooking, Well, why can't you do

466
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:01,399
Speaker 2: this in the first three quarters? And my belief was

467
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:05,160
Speaker 2: that Russell wanted to prove when he got this contract

468
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:07,880
Speaker 2: with Denver, I can throw it from the pocket. I'm

469
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:10,520
Speaker 2: not gonna be run around guy like Kyler Murray. I'm

470
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:12,159
Speaker 2: not going to be run around guy. He didn't like

471
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:15,119
Speaker 2: me pigeonholed. But the truth is, when I talked to

472
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:18,960
Speaker 2: Sean Payton when he was on the herd, he said

473
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:22,960
Speaker 2: he needs to go back to playing basketball on grass.

474
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:26,560
Speaker 2: That's what he is. And so I think what you're

475
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:29,679
Speaker 2: going to see from Russ this year is Sean Payton saying, listen,

476
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:34,679
Speaker 2: lean into you like you're not a pocket guy like

477
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:39,000
Speaker 2: two acknowlogists can't see over the line. Kyler admits, I

478
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:42,160
Speaker 2: need to create space. I think Russell got into a Okay,

479
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:44,919
Speaker 2: now I'm making fifty. That's the Tom territory, that's the

480
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:48,880
Speaker 2: Peyton and I think psychologically he fell. Hey man, I'm

481
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:50,760
Speaker 2: not gonna get beat up. I'm gonna throw from the pocket.

482
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:53,000
Speaker 2: And when you combine that with a left tackle that

483
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:56,480
Speaker 2: got hurt, injuries to receivers, and a horrific offensive coach,

484
00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:04,159
Speaker 2: it all unraveled. My guess is Russell looks a lot

485
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:05,800
Speaker 2: like Seattle Russell this year.

486
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:10,919
Speaker 3: Your thoughts, my take is that Sean Payton is going

487
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:12,679
Speaker 3: to easily be able to come at him and go.

488
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:15,240
Speaker 3: I had one of the great pocket quarterbacks of all time,

489
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:19,200
Speaker 3: and as he aged, I yearned to get a more

490
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:21,439
Speaker 3: athletic guy. Why I went with Taysom Hill in some

491
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 3: of these packages because it opened up the playbook. It

492
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:26,480
Speaker 3: makes our offense easier to run. Now you can argue,

493
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:29,360
Speaker 3: whether you know it didn't always work because Taysom wasn't

494
00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:32,480
Speaker 3: a true quarterback. Russell with you, I'm already getting the

495
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 3: combination of the two guys. Right, You're the athlete who

496
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 3: has proven to be a good thrower of the football.

497
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:42,359
Speaker 3: I've proven I can dial up the offense, trust and

498
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:45,119
Speaker 3: believe in me. I think the problem was with Russell

499
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:49,000
Speaker 3: Gillin last year is that he had more equity, had

500
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:52,280
Speaker 3: more juice than the coach. Those are all the stories.

501
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:54,720
Speaker 3: You know, if Russell wanted to do something that's not

502
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 3: the way football works. Not that you don't give in

503
00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:01,359
Speaker 3: sometimes and utilize what your star players or any player

504
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:03,840
Speaker 3: in your offense has an idea, but it was clear

505
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:06,719
Speaker 3: the hierarchy of power was anything Russell wanted to do,

506
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:10,119
Speaker 3: that's what would happen. And then the stories about the

507
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:13,119
Speaker 3: signals being off, the verbiage, it's just a lot going on.

508
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:15,399
Speaker 3: That's not going to happen with Sean Paygne because it's

509
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:17,720
Speaker 3: his way or the highway. But he knows what he's doing.

510
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:22,400
Speaker 3: So I'm still hesitant to feel confident about them being

511
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 3: back because we've seen players like him once they start

512
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 3: turning the wrong way. If athleticism is starting to administ,

513
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 3: that'd be a problem. But if, like you said, it

514
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:36,159
Speaker 3: was just more hesitation, he was trying to prove something

515
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:38,920
Speaker 3: which listen to any human being in what any field

516
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:41,120
Speaker 3: tries to prove something. I understand it if he will

517
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:42,520
Speaker 3: take the ego out of it and just listen to

518
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 3: Sean Payne. He has proven that he can score on anybody.

519
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:48,240
Speaker 3: And their defense is already good. That's another thing with

520
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:51,640
Speaker 3: Brandon Staley. If they are better, right, you know, the

521
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 3: Chiefs aren't going anywhere. The rest of the AFC is

522
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:57,240
Speaker 3: really good, that would be a problem for the Chargers,

523
00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:01,320
Speaker 3: who have no business being a really good team. I

524
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 3: think that we thought that division was going to be

525
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 3: the best last year coming in the AFC West. I

526
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 3: think this year it's more of the year because now

527
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 3: Denver is legitimate, Herbert should be even better. I think

528
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 3: Kellen Moore is pretty good. Yeah, I actually think that

529
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,520
Speaker 3: he's If they ended up doing that transition wouldn't be

530
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 3: the craziest thing because the other thing with Lincoln Riley,

531
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 3: right at the end of the day, USC can always

532
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 3: kind of check to match whoever right. Jerry Jones definitely

533
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:29,440
Speaker 3: Dean Spanos, who has the money, he's just sometimes hesitant

534
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:33,760
Speaker 3: to pay it on the coaches and Kellen. Now you

535
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 3: know Lincoln, I mean, I think he's pretty comfortable in

536
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 3: his situation. They got it rolling, getting all these sec transfers,

537
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:41,720
Speaker 3: the transfer portal is going to change their operation that

538
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:44,120
Speaker 3: they feel like that. I wouldn't want to say heavy favorites,

539
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:46,400
Speaker 3: but they should win the PAC twelve this year, definitely

540
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:49,840
Speaker 3: not get beat by Utah twice. So yeah, I mean,

541
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 3: I think Denver is kind of a wild card because

542
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 3: if you get even not the a Russell we've seen

543
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:57,240
Speaker 3: but last year, if we gave him a grade let's

544
00:29:57,240 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 3: say a C minus, if you get the BB plus

545
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:02,720
Speaker 3: with that head coach, are they a ten win team

546
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 3: that they definitely could be? All Right?

547
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 2: Finally, I've got to ask you, I'm I'm gonna ask

548
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:11,880
Speaker 2: you to put your swamming hat on and make a prediction.

549
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 2: So I think if you ask you and I for

550
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 2: our predictions, they be mostly aligned. I tend to think

551
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:21,080
Speaker 2: Carolina is going to be the surprise playoffs team in

552
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:24,000
Speaker 2: the NFL, largely because it's a bad division and I

553
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 2: think they're front seven is good defensively, they ran the ball,

554
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:28,840
Speaker 2: the old lines getting better, and Bryce Young is plug

555
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:32,120
Speaker 2: and play. Limitations, but plug and play. So I have

556
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:35,280
Speaker 2: them in a really weak division and an incredibly weak

557
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:39,440
Speaker 2: conference Carolina being the shock, but a team I'm just

558
00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:42,960
Speaker 2: gonna ask you about one team because I am fascinated

559
00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 2: and I don't know the answer. By Thanksgiving with the

560
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:51,240
Speaker 2: Chicago Bears, are we going to say justin fields?

561
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:51,800
Speaker 3: Is it?

562
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:53,560
Speaker 2: Justin fields?

563
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:54,080
Speaker 3: Doesn't work?

564
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:57,440
Speaker 2: Because I argue tight end wide receiver group this morning

565
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:04,920
Speaker 2: is more than comet Tanyan Mooney, Dj Moore, Claypool a

566
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:09,520
Speaker 2: third like, that's more than adequate. O line was PFF

567
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:12,200
Speaker 2: had him fifteenth. I think they found a left tackle

568
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:14,760
Speaker 2: last year. Remember they went heavy into the old line

569
00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 2: a couple of years ago. A couple of those guys

570
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 2: hit Yeah, your prediction on the Chicago Bears season.

571
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:24,360
Speaker 3: I bet against it, just because he hasn't shown anywhere

572
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 3: near being the passing That element of the position is

573
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:33,840
Speaker 3: such a major question mark and hasn't even been remotely close. Now.

574
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 3: I know everyone's like he hasn't had the talent around

575
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:38,640
Speaker 3: and they got Dj Moore. I just I would bet

576
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:41,960
Speaker 3: against it. History would shown that doesn't work, and I

577
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 3: think they kind of knew it, but there was a

578
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 3: big picture. They had to reset the franchise. The trade

579
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:49,959
Speaker 3: was so lucrative it didn't matter getting Dj Moore. If

580
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:52,040
Speaker 3: they end up drafting a quarterback this next year, is

581
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 3: the right big picture move, and he's a good guy.

582
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 3: People like him, and he's he's such a great athlete

583
00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:00,240
Speaker 3: that he could just function. But Colin, they think the

584
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:03,600
Speaker 3: stat is that last year the Colts are, for example,

585
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:05,840
Speaker 3: who were down all the time, I think average like

586
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 3: thirty six passing attempts. Again, the Bears were well under

587
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 3: twenty five I think at twenty two. So that shows

588
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:14,840
Speaker 3: you that the coaches who are still there coming back

589
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:18,360
Speaker 3: did not even when you're shitty, you pass it, whether

590
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:20,240
Speaker 3: you're you and me are the wide receivers, whether you

591
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:22,720
Speaker 3: got Jerry right, you're trying to win right, and they

592
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:25,280
Speaker 3: just refuse. So to think that there is going to

593
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:29,480
Speaker 3: be some dramatic jump, especially that they have unproven coaches.

594
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 3: That's the other thing. If you told me that he

595
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 3: was around Sean McVay and Andy Reid at pal Shanahan,

596
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:36,920
Speaker 3: you go, okay, I'm gonna give him the benefit of

597
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:39,440
Speaker 3: the doubt. With his physical tools. I loved him coming out.

598
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 3: I remember I would have taken him beside Trevor Lawrence.

599
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 3: I thought the Jets should have taken him at two.

600
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:45,960
Speaker 3: The Niners definitely should have taken him at three, just

601
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:47,680
Speaker 3: because of the physical tools, and then it's on the

602
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:50,800
Speaker 3: coaches to mold it. But I think it's pretty concerning,

603
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 3: and he's a classic guy where everyone gets bullish in

604
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:56,640
Speaker 3: an offseason where nothing's really changed beside some talent around him.

605
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 3: But you've seen DJ Moore dominate on some teams that

606
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 3: lose a lot of games, right, So it's just that

607
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:05,800
Speaker 3: that would I would bet against it. Now, are they

608
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:08,840
Speaker 3: going to be crappy enough to be draft in one

609
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:11,720
Speaker 3: or two? Probably not, but they do have some now

610
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:15,600
Speaker 3: draft ammunition, you know, to get up. I think we

611
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 3: talk a lot about Caleb Williams, but I think Drake

612
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:20,360
Speaker 3: May is going to be viewed as, you know, like

613
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:22,720
Speaker 3: a one B level guy. I mean, I think that

614
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 3: the buzz on him to my scouting buddies, Caleb just

615
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 3: is a wold guy anyone the season live. But I

616
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:31,960
Speaker 3: think Drake's pretty damn close to that big huge arm.

617
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:34,720
Speaker 3: Saban was all over him out of high school again,

618
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:36,680
Speaker 3: tried to buy him last year in the offseason. Like,

619
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 3: I think he's the real deal. So I think the

620
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:41,120
Speaker 3: you know, it's one of those draft classes that's going

621
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 3: to be viewed coming out. You know. Now things change

622
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:45,640
Speaker 3: once you're you know the Zion Job Moran like two

623
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:48,240
Speaker 3: Camp missguys and their talents. Can't debate. They got some

624
00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:51,080
Speaker 3: eating problems and some gun problems, But I think Caleb

625
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:53,600
Speaker 3: and Drake are going to be viewed as just a

626
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:56,240
Speaker 3: pretty special and the difference of some of these classes

627
00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:57,800
Speaker 3: that have been viewed like that a couple of years ago,

628
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:00,560
Speaker 3: the Zach Wilson and Trey Lance. Clearly that year with

629
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 3: the COVID was all messed up. These two guys are

630
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 3: going to play a lot of football against a lot

631
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:08,080
Speaker 3: of big time teams, night games with the lights on,

632
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:10,440
Speaker 3: with all these scouts coming through for multiple years. So

633
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:12,960
Speaker 3: there's gonna be a lot of evidence on both of them,

634
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:15,520
Speaker 3: which there already is. I mean, I would imagine if

635
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:18,560
Speaker 3: you went around the draft boards right now, they're pretty

636
00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:20,560
Speaker 3: entrenched at number one and number two.

637
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:24,920
Speaker 2: John Middlecoff, host of Three and Out and Golo Podcasts,

638
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:27,680
Speaker 2: on the Volume, as always, Buddy, this was great.

639
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:31,520
Speaker 3: Love the hat gone looks good. Have a good weekend.

640
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:46,640
Speaker 1: The Volume