1 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:08,039 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and you're listening to stuff I've 2 00:00:08,039 --> 00:00:22,880 Speaker 1: never told you. Today we are joined by Jack and 3 00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:26,520 Speaker 1: Miles from the Dailies at podcast. Thanks so much for 4 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:29,640 Speaker 1: joining us today. I'm so excited to have you. Well, 5 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:32,239 Speaker 1: thanks for having us. Yeah, we're excited to be on 6 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 1: the show. I'm really sorry I don't have a fun 7 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:37,920 Speaker 1: intro song for you. I know that's that's something I 8 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:41,480 Speaker 1: always enjoy when I listen to your podcast. Well, yeah, 9 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 1: that's those are all fans submitted, so we don't have 10 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:47,520 Speaker 1: the the the genius to come up with those ourselves. Yeah, 11 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:50,200 Speaker 1: but we start off our show by inserting our names 12 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:57,160 Speaker 1: into classic songs as a k s. Because we are narcissists. Well, 13 00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 1: I I enjoy it, and your fans are very impressive 14 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:04,080 Speaker 1: of and you both have the distinction of being the 15 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 1: second and third man on the show. I think, I 16 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:11,720 Speaker 1: think so. Yeah, yeah, it was correct. H fived each 17 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 1: other in a really manly masculine went let go in 18 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:19,880 Speaker 1: my hand. Oh perfect, there's no pressure. No pressure here. Um. 19 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:23,280 Speaker 1: And for the listeners, you might have heard me over 20 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 1: on their show a couple of months ago, where I 21 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:30,200 Speaker 1: said one of my most controversial public statements ever so 22 00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:33,840 Speaker 1: go check that out if you haven't heard it, but 23 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:36,759 Speaker 1: please don't rain down the fire of anger. I already 24 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:40,679 Speaker 1: went through it. Don't do it again. Um. And interestingly, 25 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:44,240 Speaker 1: the day I was on your show, the first Avengers 26 00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 1: in game trailer had dropped and we talked about it, 27 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 1: and today the second one drops. So anytime there's a 28 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 1: particular trailer that I'm excited about, we have to do 29 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:58,200 Speaker 1: a podcast together. That's just science. I actually arranged it. 30 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 1: I had model that just tolign things up. I felt 31 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 1: like it would give us a good jumping off point 32 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:06,360 Speaker 1: for this conversation, and look at that. It worked out. 33 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:08,720 Speaker 1: That's why he kept pushing the date. We're like, just 34 00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 1: get it to land on the four teeth right right, 35 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:14,359 Speaker 1: that's perfect. I didn't I didn't know you had that. Sway, 36 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:19,040 Speaker 1: what do you think about the trailer? Um? I I 37 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:21,960 Speaker 1: really liked it. The last one was kind of very 38 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:24,400 Speaker 1: sparse on the details, so I watched that one like 39 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 1: twenty two times. This one I've watched twice, and I 40 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:28,959 Speaker 1: think it's kind of spoilery. So I'm not going to 41 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 1: watch it anymore and dissect it. Um. It has given me. 42 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:35,440 Speaker 1: I don't want any spoilers that I haven't even seen 43 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:37,600 Speaker 1: the first Avengers movie. That's how I'm afraid of the 44 00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 1: spoilers I am. That's you know, that's that's a really 45 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 1: interesting approach. Yeah, I hadn't considered that. Um, I do 46 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:50,120 Speaker 1: like trying to guess ending, So what I think I'm 47 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:52,040 Speaker 1: gonna do so no one thinks I just like lie 48 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:54,240 Speaker 1: and say I guessed it. I'm going to write down 49 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 1: when I think happens, seal it in an envelope, and 50 00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:58,919 Speaker 1: give it to a friend, and then after the movie 51 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:01,840 Speaker 1: I can see how correct I was and have that 52 00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:05,600 Speaker 1: notarized too. So if SAMs or butts about it, you know, 53 00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:07,240 Speaker 1: you don't want someone to accuse you of having a 54 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 1: plant to pull this off. So it's just that. Yeah, 55 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:14,040 Speaker 1: I was gonna say, email it to yourself, but I'm 56 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:16,280 Speaker 1: pretty sure you can copy and paste, so yeah, that 57 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:21,480 Speaker 1: can be tampered them receipts, though I can't take that metadata. 58 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:24,840 Speaker 1: That's true. That's true. I don't want anyone questioning. I 59 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 1: want to win fair and square. So the topic that 60 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:33,680 Speaker 1: you pitched today is likability and the betrayal of women 61 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:39,560 Speaker 1: in the media and particularly politics. Correct. Yeah, yes, um, 62 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:42,720 Speaker 1: and is there any particular reason you pitched this topic. 63 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 1: I mean, I but it kind of was one of 64 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:51,720 Speaker 1: the more unfair things that we saw in the elections, 65 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 1: sort of the double standard that the two candidates seemed 66 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:58,600 Speaker 1: to be held to. Uh, And then we were seeing 67 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 1: it kind of crop up again as the Democratic field 68 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 1: started filling out for the election. Um, I think we're 69 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:09,840 Speaker 1: gonna specifically talk about Elizabeth Warren, but that was a 70 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 1: thing that I was hearing brought up in the context 71 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 1: of her candidacy quite a bit. And then just from 72 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:22,480 Speaker 1: a personal standpoint, I just always noticed a wild double standard. 73 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:25,239 Speaker 1: I used to I started the website cracked dot com, 74 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:29,720 Speaker 1: and we used to post videos and articles by women, 75 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 1: and I just noticed a huge double standard in the 76 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:36,480 Speaker 1: comments section when it came to, you know, what women 77 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:39,800 Speaker 1: would say versus what men would say. That that people 78 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:46,200 Speaker 1: would really get upset about, uh, you know, the personas 79 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:51,160 Speaker 1: of women and you know, uh impure assume that they 80 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 1: could read the minds of the women and uh, you know, 81 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:59,360 Speaker 1: add on all sorts of weird uh context that they 82 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:03,240 Speaker 1: thought the the person was, you know, just assuming unlikable 83 00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:06,120 Speaker 1: things about the person. And I think also just as 84 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:09,559 Speaker 1: you know, the Democratic Party begins to be a little 85 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:12,400 Speaker 1: more representative of what the base looks like or what 86 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:15,880 Speaker 1: the country looks like. Just seeing how all these new 87 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 1: batch of women entering Congress are also like the first 88 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:22,520 Speaker 1: thing they're dealing with is that same double standard, Like 89 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 1: immediately right, right, because one of the first things that 90 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:29,680 Speaker 1: Politico ran after Elizabeth warren't announced she was running for 91 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:34,040 Speaker 1: president was an article about her likability. Right, Yeah, it's 92 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:36,960 Speaker 1: just like, yeah, I mean, yeah, she's really smart and 93 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:40,560 Speaker 1: qualified in everything. Was she likable? Right? Do people like 94 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:45,400 Speaker 1: her too desperate for people to like her? Yes? Yes, 95 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:48,799 Speaker 1: there was that question after she did the Instagram video 96 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:51,920 Speaker 1: of her cooking and she had a beer and immediately afterwards, 97 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:55,720 Speaker 1: everyone was like, she's so desperate to appear likable. And 98 00:05:55,839 --> 00:05:59,000 Speaker 1: I have always thought that was a weird thing, Like, 99 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:01,560 Speaker 1: I know any of people who don't drink, but there's 100 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 1: this whole political I could get a beer with that person, 101 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:09,479 Speaker 1: get it. But it's strange. Yeah, it's a way to 102 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:14,119 Speaker 1: communicate where we're all normal people and I drink beer. 103 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 1: I drink your favorite favorite beverage as well. But yeah, 104 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 1: it's really funny. The media, like the mainstream media, when 105 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 1: it comes to women in politics turn into like high 106 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:30,479 Speaker 1: school bullies, like they're just like, it's so desperate for 107 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:35,560 Speaker 1: our approval and just like really like mean girl type stuff. Right, 108 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 1: Like Elizabeth Warren has a beer and it's like, oh god, 109 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:41,840 Speaker 1: she's trying to trick us all, like she's not the elitist. 110 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:44,560 Speaker 1: Brett Kavanaugh was like, I like beer, and people like 111 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:51,239 Speaker 1: you see he's not a sex predator. Okay, like forty 112 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 1: times yeah, he's primary quit. It seemed like he thought 113 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:58,640 Speaker 1: that was his primary qualification, right, being on the Supreme 114 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 1: Court for emphasis on beer. Really right, I like beer 115 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:06,000 Speaker 1: just like the every man right right. Also, I mean, look, 116 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:08,360 Speaker 1: Elizabeth Warren someone I love to have a meal with, 117 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:11,560 Speaker 1: not just a beer. Yeah, I want to pick her brain. Yeah, 118 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:15,320 Speaker 1: well that that is a better approach I me in 119 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 1: my opinion. Um, she also has a dog now Bailey, 120 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:22,760 Speaker 1: and everyone loves this dog. They chant his or her name. 121 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:27,320 Speaker 1: I don't know at rallies. But still people are saying 122 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 1: she did it as an attempt to be more likable, 123 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 1: which maybe maybe, but still it's odd that that's the 124 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:38,000 Speaker 1: first thing, Oh that dog is just to be likable. 125 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:41,120 Speaker 1: I mean you kind of saw this with Hillary where 126 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 1: it was it was this unwinnable scenario where you know, 127 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:50,920 Speaker 1: she was too robotic and too calculating or you know, shrill. 128 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 1: But then anytime she did something that seemed like in 129 00:07:55,040 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 1: response to that observation or criticism than she is like 130 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:04,720 Speaker 1: you know, the it was, it was an impossible scenario 131 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 1: to to win. And it seems like they've already set 132 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 1: up that catch twenty two for Elizabeth Warren. And you know, 133 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 1: if she does feel the need to respond to these 134 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 1: incredibly unfair standards that uh, you know, the mainstream media 135 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 1: holds women too in politics, like that shouldn't be something 136 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 1: that we uh judge her negatively for. It's the reality 137 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:33,360 Speaker 1: of the situation and it's terrible. And again, yes she 138 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:37,559 Speaker 1: gets a dog the shouts of the conspiracy to try 139 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 1: and come off more billion of people. Yet you know, 140 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:41,080 Speaker 1: no one cares that Trump is like one of the 141 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:44,199 Speaker 1: few presidents who's never had a pet, right, yes, and 142 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 1: like yeah, I mean that's fine, that's fine, you know whatever, 143 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:49,079 Speaker 1: Like he's being real, he's being authentically a person who 144 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:54,080 Speaker 1: hates life. Right. He always gets credited for being authentic 145 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:59,480 Speaker 1: even though he live all the time. And Hillary Clinton 146 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:02,080 Speaker 1: had the office that where she was inauthentic because I 147 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:04,600 Speaker 1: think she was trying to walk this line of being 148 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:09,480 Speaker 1: likable but also tough, like not too feminine, and yeah, 149 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:13,480 Speaker 1: that that really bothered me during the election. How many 150 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:16,480 Speaker 1: of my friends would say, I just I just don't 151 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:20,480 Speaker 1: like her. She's not likable, she's in off pick like yeah, yeah, 152 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 1: she was probably coached to be that, right, right, Yeah. 153 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:28,320 Speaker 1: That was always the things like there's something about her 154 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:31,040 Speaker 1: I don't know, and you're like, wait, but hold on, 155 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:34,320 Speaker 1: this is a binary decision here, like are you still 156 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:35,840 Speaker 1: going to sit this one out? I mean I knew 157 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:39,640 Speaker 1: people who actually would vote a third party because of 158 00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:42,840 Speaker 1: that same really vague reason. It's like I don't know 159 00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:45,520 Speaker 1: something about him, Like are you is this because you're 160 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 1: just conditioned to just be suspicious of a woman trying 161 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 1: to enter this fear of like male dominated politics, or 162 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:54,520 Speaker 1: like what do you can you even articulate what this thing? 163 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 1: You can't put your finger on? Right? Yeah, And we've 164 00:09:57,679 --> 00:10:00,720 Speaker 1: talked a lot on this show about a idea around 165 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 1: female ambition and female power, and I think a lot 166 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:08,160 Speaker 1: of that we saw play out in that election, and 167 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:11,000 Speaker 1: UM will definitely come back to that a little later 168 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:13,800 Speaker 1: in this episode. I did want to go back to 169 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 1: Elizabeth Warren for a second because Democratic analyst Dan Payne 170 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 1: he had some advice for her when she was running. 171 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:24,600 Speaker 1: Take it from a man, ye Smith, smile a little 172 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:27,680 Speaker 1: bit more. Oh my gosh, I get that all the time. 173 00:10:27,679 --> 00:10:30,599 Speaker 1: I hate it. Um. She was running for Senate in 174 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:33,520 Speaker 1: twelve and he told her to lose the granny glasses, 175 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:36,959 Speaker 1: soften the hair, and get coaching, to deepen her voice, 176 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:40,440 Speaker 1: which grates on some, and have a little modesty and 177 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:43,839 Speaker 1: stop the finger wagging. It adds to her strict schoolmarm 178 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:51,080 Speaker 1: appearance and bossy manner. Yes, that the other buzzword, Yeah, 179 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:54,839 Speaker 1: another buzzword dripped from the playground anytime you hear it. 180 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:58,800 Speaker 1: It's just absolute. Well, that just shows you how early 181 00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 1: on we're conditioned right to look at things like that, 182 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:03,240 Speaker 1: because bossy is like one of the first things, like 183 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:06,840 Speaker 1: your first criticisms you learn as a kid for a woman, 184 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:12,680 Speaker 1: only the right, Yeah, likes a man is like a boss, right, exactly, 185 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:16,320 Speaker 1: loss the boss, but yeah exactly. But yeah, that whole 186 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 1: bossy angle is really just I think shows you where 187 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 1: that's that That's exactly where it's coming from. Yeah, right, 188 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:26,240 Speaker 1: Like bossy or bitchy. Those are immediately to shut you down, 189 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:29,920 Speaker 1: to take away your credibility, and they're they're used that way. 190 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 1: They're kind of weaponized to make you basically shut up. Right. 191 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:39,199 Speaker 1: The voice thing to I mean, that's like Elizabeth Holmes 192 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 1: from Sarainos, like her game plan is the deepen deepening 193 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:44,839 Speaker 1: of the voice, which is interesting because we we were 194 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:48,000 Speaker 1: talking with someone who's like a speech coach and just 195 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:50,319 Speaker 1: sort of the ways in which you know, women are 196 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 1: meant to take up less space or condition to take 197 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:57,160 Speaker 1: up less space even with their voices, and even that 198 00:11:57,320 --> 00:11:59,720 Speaker 1: you know, extends into like, well, then how some people 199 00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:01,800 Speaker 1: are trying to flip that complete and single then let 200 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:05,120 Speaker 1: me adopt something deeper, more masculine to even be heard. 201 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:08,800 Speaker 1: Another example of where I've seen this in my day 202 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:13,160 Speaker 1: to day life is with vocal fry on podcasts. I 203 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:16,000 Speaker 1: actually think this was there was an episode of This 204 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:19,320 Speaker 1: American Life where they talked about, uh, you know that 205 00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:24,319 Speaker 1: the top comment that they get from people is criticism 206 00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:28,640 Speaker 1: of women who report for them having vocal fry. But 207 00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 1: then I heard Glass was like, listen to my voice 208 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:33,720 Speaker 1: and I have vocal fry too. You just don't mind 209 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:37,439 Speaker 1: when I do it because you know, you're sublimating some 210 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:41,200 Speaker 1: uh feelings that you have that are tied up in 211 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:46,559 Speaker 1: sexuality and gender. I could go on and on about 212 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:50,200 Speaker 1: vocal Fry and the complaints we get about it. There 213 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:55,320 Speaker 1: is this notorious fan and any quotes fan letter that 214 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:57,560 Speaker 1: um one of our other podcasts gott and they did 215 00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:00,240 Speaker 1: an episode on vocal Fry, and somebody were it in 216 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:03,480 Speaker 1: and said, um, women are doing this because they perceive 217 00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:06,400 Speaker 1: it as higher class men perceive it in a different way, 218 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 1: and we control the world. If they don't care about 219 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 1: our opinion, they can continue. They want to be hired, 220 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:15,320 Speaker 1: and they should learn to control this speech impediment And 221 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:17,840 Speaker 1: was and was his e d cured after he said that, 222 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 1: If it was, I would love to know about that cure. 223 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:29,760 Speaker 1: R toxic masculinity to reassert your dominance in really lame way. Yeah, 224 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:32,960 Speaker 1: when we run the world, Oh what a poor poor man. 225 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:36,120 Speaker 1: Clear as clearly evidenced by the fact that you are 226 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 1: writing letters to a podcast company exerting your immense power 227 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 1: over the world. Um. Yeah, And I mean also I 228 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:51,240 Speaker 1: think that story goes on to her. Another article that 229 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:53,200 Speaker 1: I read about vocal Fry, I went on to point 230 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:57,680 Speaker 1: out that women tend to be actually speech innovators. Like 231 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:01,319 Speaker 1: they talked about up speak or of ending your sentence 232 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:05,520 Speaker 1: on the up thing. It sounds like less definitive, and 233 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:09,880 Speaker 1: that started with Valley Girls, but now like that's the 234 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:12,959 Speaker 1: only way I know how to end with up speak, 235 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:16,040 Speaker 1: and uh, they're saying vocal fry. The same thing is happening, 236 00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:20,760 Speaker 1: you know, we're it's spreading around the world. So there 237 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 1: is a lot of these tendencies that people overtly criticized. 238 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:30,760 Speaker 1: They're probably critical of them because uh, they know how 239 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:37,400 Speaker 1: they know how powerful women and to be. Yeah, yeah 240 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:42,440 Speaker 1: it is. That would be a different podcast. But working 241 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 1: in in this industry and like receiving those those complaints 242 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:48,840 Speaker 1: and then you get all in your head about well 243 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:51,880 Speaker 1: how do I speak? Is this terrible? And that the 244 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 1: curve of learning just don't think about it. Yeah, I'm 245 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 1: going back to you, Elizabeth Warren and that that not 246 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:05,720 Speaker 1: so great advice that that analyst gave her. There has 247 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:08,440 Speaker 1: been a lot of comparison to the coverage of Bernie Sanders, 248 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 1: who was sort of given this cool guy pass for 249 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:16,440 Speaker 1: his shouting and finger wagging and glasses and hair um 250 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:21,360 Speaker 1: and yeah, the coverage of Warren. It's just pretty stark 251 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 1: how different it is, even though a lot of the 252 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:30,720 Speaker 1: qualities are kind of similar. It's almost impossible to imagine 253 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:37,360 Speaker 1: a woman politician who doesn't comb their hair and whose 254 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 1: clothes don't fit them, and who like is constantly coming 255 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:45,760 Speaker 1: in and rumpled outfits that they clearly just took a 256 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:51,040 Speaker 1: nap in, because that would just never happen, and if 257 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 1: it did, people would call her presumably a cat lady 258 00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:57,600 Speaker 1: or something like that. You know, it would just be 259 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:01,960 Speaker 1: it would not be even m botely allowed. But with 260 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:07,119 Speaker 1: Bernie Sanders, it's just like he's a lovable he's grandpa. Yeah, yeah, exactly, 261 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:14,320 Speaker 1: Grandpa exactly. Many ideas an unequality, that's right, And I 262 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:18,040 Speaker 1: do find it funny, not funny that when Hillary Clinton 263 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:21,680 Speaker 1: got the twenties sixteen nomination, the press was like, why 264 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:25,520 Speaker 1: didn't the Democratic Party choose someone more likable like Elizabeth Warren? 265 00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:30,440 Speaker 1: There you go, I don't know, Yeah, you can find 266 00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:33,440 Speaker 1: article when no one will ever he can never win there. 267 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:37,960 Speaker 1: It really is that impossible game until Oprah runs, And 268 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:40,520 Speaker 1: even then they're gonna be like, yeah, oh, I mean 269 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:44,560 Speaker 1: you only like her because she tells you cool stuff 270 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:51,280 Speaker 1: to buy. She's really more of a consumer advocate. The 271 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:55,200 Speaker 1: first question Kirsten jill Brand got by the press after 272 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:58,680 Speaker 1: she had announced she was a presidential candidate, it came 273 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:00,920 Speaker 1: with the preface, I think a lot of people see 274 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:06,560 Speaker 1: you as a pretty likable, a nice person. Oh yeah. 275 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:10,680 Speaker 1: So trying to imagine that being something that somebody said 276 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:13,800 Speaker 1: to a male politician. I think if someone said that, 277 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:18,160 Speaker 1: it would be like negative, it would be perceived as 278 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:23,840 Speaker 1: a weakness. Right, yeah, that would be a particularly devastating 279 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:28,159 Speaker 1: line of questioning for betto right, like, look, you're nice, 280 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:31,480 Speaker 1: you're a nice guy, You're very like nice enough, but 281 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:36,480 Speaker 1: it implies a lack of substance, right yeah. Um, in 282 00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 1: the world, no, no no, no worries. Um. In the words 283 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:44,600 Speaker 1: of Shilpa Podka, the vice president of the Washington think 284 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:48,560 Speaker 1: tank Center for American Progress, quote, of course voters, sexism 285 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:52,000 Speaker 1: and outright misogyny still exist. There's a constant focus for 286 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:54,320 Speaker 1: women on what they're wearing, what they look like. In 287 00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:56,720 Speaker 1: the tone of their voice, it's almost as if they're 288 00:17:56,760 --> 00:17:59,880 Speaker 1: not only running for president but also running for Miss America. 289 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:04,439 Speaker 1: Uh yes, I think that's a great way of pointing 290 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:08,840 Speaker 1: out the bind that women politicians are in it. Well, 291 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:12,520 Speaker 1: it's even the Yeah, the pageantry aspect is even applying, 292 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:15,399 Speaker 1: Like it's again, it's this fine line. It's like, well, 293 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:19,120 Speaker 1: what are they wearing whatever? But then Alexandro Kazio Cortez like, oh, 294 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:21,800 Speaker 1: what she's wearing is two nice too nice? Yeah, I 295 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 1: thought you were a poor right now, what's this? A 296 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:29,000 Speaker 1: person of the people? Yet she wears nice clothes and 297 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:31,840 Speaker 1: then they start listing off the price of all of 298 00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:39,040 Speaker 1: her clothing. The dancing was like, the biggest controversy on 299 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:41,800 Speaker 1: the right particularly is that she was a person in 300 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:47,080 Speaker 1: college who danced to music. Because we all foot loose town. 301 00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:52,359 Speaker 1: Apparently that's disqualifying. We all know it. Um. I actually 302 00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:58,160 Speaker 1: read a really long essay about how if you look 303 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:01,560 Speaker 1: at the I guess this was as an eight um 304 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:06,760 Speaker 1: and Hillary Clinton and Sarah Palin both like Clinton personified 305 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:11,520 Speaker 1: the Madonna and Palin personified the horror. And you have 306 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:14,840 Speaker 1: to be there's like a space in between that you 307 00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:17,960 Speaker 1: have to exist where men have to believe they have 308 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:21,160 Speaker 1: a chance with you, and that's one of the only 309 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:27,680 Speaker 1: ways you can succeed. Yeah, yeah, Jack, let's just see 310 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:34,240 Speaker 1: ourselves out. Why are you even talking to it forgot 311 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 1: past like tone. I would add to you can't be 312 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:43,479 Speaker 1: too pretty because there is that bimbo trope of um 313 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:49,240 Speaker 1: people perceiving you as incompetent if you're too beautiful, so right, 314 00:19:49,359 --> 00:19:51,920 Speaker 1: you can't possibly be smart, which is why you see 315 00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:57,360 Speaker 1: Alexandria Occasio Cortez attacked for you know, saying like too 316 00:19:57,359 --> 00:20:01,640 Speaker 1: many times or any time she gets the fact wrong. Meanwhile, 317 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:04,119 Speaker 1: if you look at any member of the house, like 318 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:08,000 Speaker 1: they are constantly speaking in front of cameras, they get 319 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:10,959 Speaker 1: details wrong. But she has held up to that because 320 00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:16,840 Speaker 1: you know, it kind of helps people reconcile their feelings 321 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:19,520 Speaker 1: about yes, wanting to have a chance with her, I think, 322 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:23,720 Speaker 1: and she's also not, you know, discouraged by the criticis 323 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:26,080 Speaker 1: she doesn't even respond to it in a way that's normal, 324 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:27,880 Speaker 1: And I think that's what bothers a lot of the 325 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:30,240 Speaker 1: trolls out there who wanted to try and shame her, 326 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:32,960 Speaker 1: because at no point does she really ever you know, 327 00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:36,280 Speaker 1: give her power away to like these outrage mobs on 328 00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:39,119 Speaker 1: the internet or just on like Fox News. She just 329 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:43,800 Speaker 1: sort of perseveres calls out the sexism, misogyny, hypocrisy of 330 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:46,320 Speaker 1: whatever the criticisms are of her and then keeps it moving. 331 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:52,160 Speaker 1: They're like it will find something else. Then, yeah, that's probably. 332 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:55,280 Speaker 1: I don't know of a better way to to deal 333 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:58,320 Speaker 1: with criticism than that, um in this public realm. So 334 00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:02,400 Speaker 1: kudos to her. Yeah, And going back to clothing choices, 335 00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:05,760 Speaker 1: I love how oh women cannot win on this one. 336 00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:09,160 Speaker 1: And there's things like sneaker gay and heal gay and 337 00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:11,480 Speaker 1: like pant suit gate, like they turn it, they blow 338 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:15,720 Speaker 1: it up into this huge thing, and I'm thinking, we can't. 339 00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:18,879 Speaker 1: Can we not just move on from the clothing and 340 00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:24,400 Speaker 1: talk about the issues. I guess not. But the clothing 341 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:28,240 Speaker 1: indicates how much of a chance I have. Exactly. They 342 00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:32,879 Speaker 1: have to be right exactly, not too threatening and not 343 00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:35,920 Speaker 1: too like pushing any boundaries. They don't want any of that. 344 00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:38,000 Speaker 1: I have to be able to bring you home to 345 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:40,800 Speaker 1: my mother, but also think about you when I'm not 346 00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:47,720 Speaker 1: when I'm alone. Walk that line. Yeah, easy, easy, and 347 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:50,520 Speaker 1: kind of like we were talking about earlier. Men are 348 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:55,359 Speaker 1: rewarded and even considered likable for displaying more masculine I 349 00:21:55,400 --> 00:22:01,840 Speaker 1: would say, unlikable qualities like anger, rudeness, loudness, rashness, and 350 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:04,920 Speaker 1: women are punished for that behavior to aggressive, to shrill, 351 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:08,600 Speaker 1: too bossy, too bitchy. But they're also punished for just 352 00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:13,239 Speaker 1: playing traditionally feminine behaviors, and so are men. And and 353 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:15,440 Speaker 1: this is punished by men and women. To be clear, 354 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 1: a lot of times it's less about likability and more 355 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:23,280 Speaker 1: about violating traditional gender norms. Right, It's just that with 356 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:28,760 Speaker 1: women in powerful positions, both poles are wrong and also 357 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 1: both like middle grounds are wrong. It's just people, uh, 358 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:39,040 Speaker 1: find a way to disqualify any woman. Well, yeah, and 359 00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:43,439 Speaker 1: especially the Brett Kavanaugh confirmation was just that whole idea 360 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:47,360 Speaker 1: of just shown in public so aggressively, where someone who's 361 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:52,919 Speaker 1: screaming at a senator and being so disrespectful, and again 362 00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:57,119 Speaker 1: it was he was sticking up for himself, was sticking 363 00:22:57,119 --> 00:22:59,879 Speaker 1: to his guns against the bullies. Meanwhile, like and then 364 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:03,159 Speaker 1: if you just look at how how people viewed Christine 365 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 1: blasi Ford or even like Serena Williams right in the tournament, right, 366 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:09,879 Speaker 1: and it's just sort of like, oh my goodness, we 367 00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 1: can't have this now someone someone's sticking up for themselves. 368 00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:17,359 Speaker 1: Only guys can do that, yeah, Serena Williams versus how 369 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:21,320 Speaker 1: people judged John McEnroe. With John Right, it was like, 370 00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:24,080 Speaker 1: we're going to give him. This is gonna be his thing. 371 00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:27,200 Speaker 1: He's the bad boy. With Serena Williams, everyone was like, 372 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:32,760 Speaker 1: what is happening? Like, call the doctors, right, something's wrong. 373 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:37,320 Speaker 1: She's hysterical. She can't play anymore. We can't stand for this. 374 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:42,720 Speaker 1: In the words of Rock sand gay likability is a 375 00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:47,240 Speaker 1: very elaborate lie, a performance, a code of conduct dictating 376 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:51,320 Speaker 1: the proper way to be. And I think that that 377 00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:54,680 Speaker 1: is key to a lot of what we're talking about. 378 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:57,800 Speaker 1: And there was the study that I found when I 379 00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:01,200 Speaker 1: was researching sexism and language, and it was looking into 380 00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:05,480 Speaker 1: people who outright admitted to thinking women were lesser than men, 381 00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:09,040 Speaker 1: and it found yeah, yeah, there are people out there 382 00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:11,919 Speaker 1: that yep, both men and women. And it found that 383 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:15,800 Speaker 1: male respondents described themselves with these words that are coded 384 00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:19,800 Speaker 1: that were masculine, and they that was they saw that 385 00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:22,920 Speaker 1: as a huge benefit. And the female respondents described themselves 386 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 1: and words like not tolerable, I'm not tolerable, I'm not empathetic, 387 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:29,439 Speaker 1: also going out of their way to say, essentially, I 388 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:33,360 Speaker 1: am not like those other girls, because in our culture, 389 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:40,040 Speaker 1: masculine is better than feminine m yeah. Um. And the 390 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:44,080 Speaker 1: argument at the end of of this paper was that 391 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:46,840 Speaker 1: you can see it in the feminization of the Democratic 392 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:50,000 Speaker 1: Party as opposed to the masculinization of the Republican Party. 393 00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:54,080 Speaker 1: The Democratic Party needs to be likable, but the Republican 394 00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:56,760 Speaker 1: Party takes pride in not being likable, like being aggressive, 395 00:24:56,760 --> 00:25:00,720 Speaker 1: of being not being politically correct, and yeah, they're kind 396 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:05,840 Speaker 1: of largely rewarded for it. Yeah. I mean, Republicans like 397 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:09,560 Speaker 1: to say that Democrats are mom, We're dead, and they 398 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:12,719 Speaker 1: think that's a positive thing. Right. It's like, oh, if 399 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:15,800 Speaker 1: you want to go and cry to somebody, the Democrats 400 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:19,360 Speaker 1: are there, joined the snowflakes over here. We're over here 401 00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:24,480 Speaker 1: getting our hands dirty with the blood of protesters, right like, 402 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:27,320 Speaker 1: we will, we will take the aggressive military action because 403 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:32,119 Speaker 1: we're tough. We're not thinkers. We're not at our book 404 00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:35,840 Speaker 1: club trying to solve our problems with nuanced debate. Right 405 00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:40,360 Speaker 1: to send your kids to war? Right? Yeah. It's uh, 406 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:45,679 Speaker 1: it's really interesting to view along like so many of 407 00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:50,640 Speaker 1: the issues come down to gender roles or like how 408 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:56,119 Speaker 1: people feel about traditional sexual and gender roles, like so 409 00:25:56,560 --> 00:26:00,679 Speaker 1: many of the left right issues. Really, I'll lot of 410 00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:03,399 Speaker 1: them I find to come down to just you know, 411 00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:09,240 Speaker 1: am I willing to empathize with women? I think in 412 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:12,480 Speaker 1: a lot of cases, am I willing to admit that 413 00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:15,600 Speaker 1: a woman is also a person like me and has 414 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:18,720 Speaker 1: an internal life like me? Well? Right? And I think 415 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:21,359 Speaker 1: that even comes out with that testicular bill of rights 416 00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:24,399 Speaker 1: bill right, or you know, collection of bills that a 417 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:27,320 Speaker 1: state legislator in Georgia put out to merely putting men 418 00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:29,840 Speaker 1: to give them a second to imagine what would it 419 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:33,280 Speaker 1: be like if there were restrictive laws against their reproductive health? 420 00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 1: And the thing is just like just received with screams outrage. Yeah, 421 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:45,280 Speaker 1: it's it's one of those I mean, I remember seeing 422 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,720 Speaker 1: signs that said go back to the kitchen Hillary at 423 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:53,240 Speaker 1: her at her campaign rallies. And it does play such 424 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:56,720 Speaker 1: a large role these kind of gender norms and gender 425 00:26:56,760 --> 00:27:02,119 Speaker 1: politics in our politics, and it's kind of strange to 426 00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:05,800 Speaker 1: me that it still plays a large role. I don't know, Well, 427 00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:07,760 Speaker 1: it's like, you know, I think, like who we vote 428 00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:09,960 Speaker 1: for president is kind of in a weird way, like 429 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:12,840 Speaker 1: a ten thousand foot view of where how far we've progressed. 430 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:17,160 Speaker 1: And I think it shows that like racism is less 431 00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:20,840 Speaker 1: ingrained than misogyny and patriarchy, because people were been like, 432 00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:23,680 Speaker 1: all right, a black guy, I can vote for that. 433 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:26,760 Speaker 1: And then when it got shaken up a little bit, 434 00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:30,840 Speaker 1: there was clearly like just this real, like misplaced sentiment 435 00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,000 Speaker 1: against Hillary that I mean, sure there are things that 436 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:34,960 Speaker 1: people might not have agreed on, but even when it 437 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:40,560 Speaker 1: came down to you know, xenophobic, homophobic man versus a woman, 438 00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:42,680 Speaker 1: then all then it was I think it was easier 439 00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:44,639 Speaker 1: for people to be like, it's easier for me to 440 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:46,959 Speaker 1: think this other way than to try and feel like 441 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:50,159 Speaker 1: I'm I'm like that society was ready to accept this. 442 00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:52,240 Speaker 1: I don't know, it just it was It's sort of 443 00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:54,080 Speaker 1: I saw the elements of that too. It's just sort 444 00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:56,600 Speaker 1: of how I thought, oh, well, we've had a black president, 445 00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:00,560 Speaker 1: so maybe things are moving forward. And then I'm like, ah, okay, 446 00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:04,200 Speaker 1: we still there's still a few more rivers we need 447 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:06,880 Speaker 1: to cross. Yeah, and any like you were saying, it's 448 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:09,600 Speaker 1: it comes down to I mean, it's in everything. It's 449 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:15,119 Speaker 1: in our language, Like everything has some connotation when it 450 00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:19,800 Speaker 1: comes to masculinity or femininity, and so it's it's a 451 00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:25,879 Speaker 1: lot harder to avoid having judgmental thoughts when it comes 452 00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:33,920 Speaker 1: to how you feel about women in power versus you know. Oh, 453 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:35,760 Speaker 1: and I also just want to clarify I don't mean 454 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:38,520 Speaker 1: that the election of Barack Obama ment racism was over 455 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 1: said views were slightly um. So we have some more 456 00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:48,840 Speaker 1: for you listeners, but first we're going to pause for 457 00:28:48,840 --> 00:29:00,520 Speaker 1: a quick break for a word from our sponsor, and 458 00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:03,600 Speaker 1: we're back. Thank you sponsor. I've spent a lot of 459 00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:07,240 Speaker 1: time thinking about and I'm hoping to do an episode 460 00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:11,200 Speaker 1: on it. Women who who voted for Trump and um 461 00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:13,080 Speaker 1: or or didn't vote for Hillary, like, wouldn't vote for 462 00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:17,800 Speaker 1: Hillary whatever was um And I had friends who like, 463 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:20,840 Speaker 1: to me, I was witnessing internalized misogyny that it was 464 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:22,880 Speaker 1: kind of like what you were saying. They couldn't put 465 00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:24,920 Speaker 1: their finger on it, but they're like, oh, I just 466 00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:27,680 Speaker 1: don't want to They would rather not vote than I 467 00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:32,080 Speaker 1: voted for her. Yeah. One of the wildest things I 468 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:36,600 Speaker 1: read in the aftermath of the election was about a 469 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:41,600 Speaker 1: women for Trump group that arose that was started the 470 00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:46,560 Speaker 1: day after the excess Hollywood tape came out because it 471 00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:51,280 Speaker 1: was I think the response of the media too, you know, 472 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:55,440 Speaker 1: tell us how we were supposed to feel about him 473 00:29:55,480 --> 00:30:01,680 Speaker 1: saying those things really angered people who have really internalized 474 00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:06,840 Speaker 1: values of how how women should think of their own 475 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:12,440 Speaker 1: place in uh in society? Was that an AstroTurf group 476 00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:15,840 Speaker 1: though it wasn't. It wasn't like the women for Kavanaugh 477 00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:17,720 Speaker 1: that showed up that was like told like it was 478 00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:21,080 Speaker 1: mostly guys. Yeah. I know this was in the aftermath 479 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:24,680 Speaker 1: in a small town in Colorado, and then you know 480 00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:26,959 Speaker 1: it kind of spread from there. But this was an 481 00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:28,880 Speaker 1: article that was written in the New York or like 482 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:32,440 Speaker 1: a month after it was just like, wait, how did 483 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:40,880 Speaker 1: he when? Wait? Women? Yeah? Very strange. Yeah. I I 484 00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:45,360 Speaker 1: had some friends who were very very intelligent after that 485 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:48,080 Speaker 1: Access Hollywood video came out kind of be like, well, 486 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:51,480 Speaker 1: you know they were in the locker room. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, 487 00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:57,120 Speaker 1: no stop. But yeah, that's that keeps me up at 488 00:30:57,160 --> 00:30:59,880 Speaker 1: night sometimes thinking about that. Um, I guess you have 489 00:30:59,920 --> 00:31:02,200 Speaker 1: to like, would you want to live in that locker 490 00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:05,200 Speaker 1: room forever? Right? What if you had to live in 491 00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:08,360 Speaker 1: that locker room? Right? Is that a world you want? Okay? 492 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:12,640 Speaker 1: Then I think we can't let that rock. There's something 493 00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:14,800 Speaker 1: else I wanted to touch on about the two thousand 494 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:17,520 Speaker 1: and eight election and this liability problem, that's what the 495 00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:21,080 Speaker 1: press called it, that Hillary Clinton had. Um even Obama said, 496 00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:27,240 Speaker 1: you're likable enough, Hillary. Um. So just just to illustrate 497 00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:29,360 Speaker 1: that this has been going on for so long and 498 00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:32,040 Speaker 1: that I do feel we haven't made that much progress 499 00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:36,760 Speaker 1: on it. In then Democratic candidate for mayor of New York, 500 00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:40,080 Speaker 1: Christine chris Quinn, spoke about this. She said, there was 501 00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:42,640 Speaker 1: a conscious decision I needed to not lean into the 502 00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:44,960 Speaker 1: woman's stuff. I needed to try to be less who 503 00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:48,000 Speaker 1: I was, less aggressive, less loud, less in people's faces. 504 00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:50,960 Speaker 1: People said I was inauthentic. By then I was. I 505 00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:53,160 Speaker 1: was walking around trying to be some different version of 506 00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:57,680 Speaker 1: the actual me. And I remember hearing that with Hillary 507 00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:02,160 Speaker 1: Clinton too, of just making the decision to not lean 508 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:07,280 Speaker 1: into like women's stuff as an issues, but also just yeah, 509 00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:11,440 Speaker 1: being feminine in any way. Yeah, And there's like just 510 00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:16,160 Speaker 1: such this weird sliding scale of authenticity that I don't 511 00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:19,880 Speaker 1: know how it's actually applied, you know, where you look 512 00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:24,560 Speaker 1: at someone who if being feminine is too authentic, it's 513 00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:27,920 Speaker 1: fine yet if when it's also the authenticity thing is 514 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:30,760 Speaker 1: used to defend people's like really close minded or ignorant 515 00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:33,680 Speaker 1: viewpoints that are set out loud. It's like that's the 516 00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:38,320 Speaker 1: authenticity defense. But also this I don't know this idea. 517 00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:40,240 Speaker 1: It's it sort of goes back to sort of the 518 00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:42,560 Speaker 1: same thing that people couldn't quite put their finger on 519 00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:45,200 Speaker 1: with Hillary. It's like, I don't know the same thing. 520 00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:49,280 Speaker 1: Or it's like, oh, she's too much of a politician something, 521 00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:51,120 Speaker 1: which is the other thing, And I'm like, what does 522 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:55,479 Speaker 1: that mean, like, has substantive experience with foreign policy, like 523 00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:58,760 Speaker 1: the politician? Is that not good? But I think it's 524 00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:02,000 Speaker 1: sort of speaking to the like I guess they feel 525 00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:05,480 Speaker 1: like they're not actually reading Hillary as being conditioned to 526 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:09,479 Speaker 1: try and sort of uh make herself as sort of 527 00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:13,880 Speaker 1: broadly appealing as possible by you know, repressing certain elements 528 00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:17,000 Speaker 1: of her personality. Um yet yeah, I don't know, I'm 529 00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:19,600 Speaker 1: rather than just looking at that or they they see 530 00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:22,800 Speaker 1: that as gamesmanship rather than someone trying to adapt to 531 00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:25,640 Speaker 1: the set of rules that has been drilled into them. 532 00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:28,239 Speaker 1: And then you kind of see the flip side of 533 00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:33,840 Speaker 1: this coin with uh where we're actually recording this the 534 00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:39,440 Speaker 1: day that betto Rourke announced that he was running, and 535 00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:43,880 Speaker 1: he did it in a video where um, he he 536 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:48,840 Speaker 1: was talking and gesticulating wildly in a way that seemed unnatural, 537 00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:52,880 Speaker 1: but that's okay. But then he had his wife next 538 00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:56,320 Speaker 1: to him, just being silent, And I don't know, like, 539 00:33:56,400 --> 00:34:00,200 Speaker 1: in a in a world that where we're coming of 540 00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:04,320 Speaker 1: the two thousand sixteen election, that seemed like a particularly 541 00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:10,280 Speaker 1: pointed of sort of shot construction. To have a silent 542 00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:13,080 Speaker 1: woman next to him who just kind of smiled and 543 00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:17,440 Speaker 1: nodded who but who never said a word. It just 544 00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:21,640 Speaker 1: seemed somewhat loaded. I don't know if intentionally or not, 545 00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:23,759 Speaker 1: or like it just signals it's like, hey, he's a 546 00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:26,440 Speaker 1: he's a dude with a wife. Yeah, you can trust him, 547 00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:29,960 Speaker 1: right right. But I do wonder, like, we know he 548 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:32,000 Speaker 1: has a wife, we know a lot of politicians have 549 00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:38,560 Speaker 1: significant others, But having her sit there silently in the shot, 550 00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:42,920 Speaker 1: I wonder if his handlers or the people behind his 551 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:49,439 Speaker 1: campaign are thinking, Okay, this is us announcing don't worry, guys, 552 00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:52,880 Speaker 1: we got this. It's we're back to just dudes. Okay, 553 00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:56,160 Speaker 1: just some dudes here, and we're going to keep the 554 00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:58,279 Speaker 1: women silent. But I think when I we look at 555 00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:00,880 Speaker 1: most political ads, people aren't even thinking and what that 556 00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:03,560 Speaker 1: deep into it too, and it's just like, oh, yeah, 557 00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:08,000 Speaker 1: we inadvertently made it kind of awkward. Yeah, I am 558 00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:12,680 Speaker 1: here analyzing a YouTube video like it is. You know, 559 00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:17,879 Speaker 1: was bruder fuzzled over like a shot in a as 560 00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:22,120 Speaker 1: Kubrick movie. But still, yeah, I do that all the time. 561 00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:25,760 Speaker 1: What I do all the time too. Um, I agree, 562 00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:31,600 Speaker 1: there is something weird about that whole thing, especially since 563 00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:36,239 Speaker 1: most of our politicians, particularly most of our politicians that 564 00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:40,919 Speaker 1: do public apologies usually for something sexual nature, and there's 565 00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:43,560 Speaker 1: always they always have their wife in the background, and 566 00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:48,759 Speaker 1: there's that whole song and dance. Feels very strange to me, 567 00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:53,839 Speaker 1: like you're making her come out here and kind of sanction. Yes, 568 00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:57,000 Speaker 1: I know he did this thing, and I'm sticking by him. 569 00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:00,920 Speaker 1: It's just strange. Yeah, it's the top thing of the 570 00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:03,320 Speaker 1: same thing of just like you see if a woman, 571 00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:07,040 Speaker 1: the woman is there, therefore he's okay what he did. 572 00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:11,040 Speaker 1: Just like in what was that the Michael Cohen hearing, 573 00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:13,799 Speaker 1: when I think it was Tom Cotton or somebody brought 574 00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:16,880 Speaker 1: out a black cabinet member or employee of the Trump 575 00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:19,040 Speaker 1: and was just like, and you see this black woman 576 00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:23,560 Speaker 1: shows the president is not racist. You may leave do 577 00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:28,400 Speaker 1: not say anything. Your mere physical presence is an indicator 578 00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:30,640 Speaker 1: of a point I'm trying to make. You have fulfilled 579 00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:34,960 Speaker 1: your purpose as a shield. Yeah, yeah, that was gross. 580 00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:37,560 Speaker 1: Um yeah, it was just cringe e. And I think, yeah, 581 00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:39,279 Speaker 1: that's when you see that too. It's just sort of 582 00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:41,000 Speaker 1: the well, we've got to have the wife there to 583 00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:43,799 Speaker 1: show like, Okay, so she's if she can, if she 584 00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:48,200 Speaker 1: can forgive, then maybe the country can. Right right now, 585 00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:53,360 Speaker 1: speaking of the country, do you think because America has 586 00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:56,960 Speaker 1: never had a head of state who is a woman, 587 00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:02,239 Speaker 1: but most other countries have, Um, do you think there 588 00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:07,319 Speaker 1: is something specific to America about this insecurity and this 589 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:12,560 Speaker 1: very specific sort of fear of powerful women? And if so, 590 00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:15,600 Speaker 1: what what is it about the American character that that 591 00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:22,640 Speaker 1: makes us so terrified of powerful women. That's that's a 592 00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:27,040 Speaker 1: very interesting question. And the thing that my mind immediately 593 00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:30,160 Speaker 1: went to you. And this is probably such kind of 594 00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:35,200 Speaker 1: a nerdy stretch. Um, but I once did a paper 595 00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:37,719 Speaker 1: on why is it that people are so afraid of 596 00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:41,160 Speaker 1: socialism in the United States? And one of the reasons 597 00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:45,600 Speaker 1: that I found a lot in my research is that 598 00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:51,000 Speaker 1: the United States has never been invaded on our like home, 599 00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:56,560 Speaker 1: on our continental US has never been invaded, and having 600 00:37:56,600 --> 00:38:02,640 Speaker 1: that that experience brings people together that normally wouldn't come together, 601 00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:04,640 Speaker 1: and it makes them see each other in kind of 602 00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:07,480 Speaker 1: similar circumstances. So like during London and blitzgreed, you could 603 00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:11,560 Speaker 1: average people and poor people all trying to survive in 604 00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:15,560 Speaker 1: in the tunnels. Um. And so this is such a stretch, 605 00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:18,160 Speaker 1: but I think that there's something about in the United 606 00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:25,560 Speaker 1: States we reward aggression and violence. Um. Violence in other 607 00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:29,600 Speaker 1: countries that I've been to is like not as normal 608 00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:34,360 Speaker 1: in their media, Like you're much likelier to see sex 609 00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:37,040 Speaker 1: and drugs, which in the United States is kind of taboo, 610 00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:41,440 Speaker 1: but violence. Um. I saw inglorious bastards in Europe and 611 00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:43,440 Speaker 1: the people I saw it with from Europe were shocked. 612 00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:47,440 Speaker 1: And like, these are generalizations, but I think there is 613 00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:55,439 Speaker 1: something about aggression and rewarding aggression. I'd have to think 614 00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:57,239 Speaker 1: I would have to think more about it, but I 615 00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:03,000 Speaker 1: think just the preference of masculine and traits. Yeah, yeah, 616 00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:05,840 Speaker 1: and yeah, and we've also had a we've been pretty 617 00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:11,640 Speaker 1: good at manufacturing what by definition, toxic masculinity, like through 618 00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:13,960 Speaker 1: film and TV and things like that too, where we're 619 00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:17,160 Speaker 1: just kind of like we always thinking the diet we're 620 00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:20,520 Speaker 1: fed here, especially through our own films and stuff. I 621 00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:24,480 Speaker 1: kind of informed that idea too. Yeah, but we you 622 00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:30,320 Speaker 1: know a lot of foreign countries import our culture. Uh, 623 00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:35,400 Speaker 1: they still find find a way to elect heads of 624 00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:39,840 Speaker 1: state who are women. But that that answer of um, 625 00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:43,480 Speaker 1: you know, never having been invaded, never been invaded, the 626 00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:48,240 Speaker 1: sequel to never been kissed, is I think a really 627 00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:50,520 Speaker 1: good I don't know, you're like, I need to think 628 00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:53,760 Speaker 1: about it more. But that's that is a very thoughtful, 629 00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:56,799 Speaker 1: very interesting answer. I like that a lot, thank you. 630 00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:01,400 Speaker 1: But the South, in a way, it has been invaded, 631 00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:04,879 Speaker 1: so south, I just need to let the South lead, 632 00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:08,200 Speaker 1: am I right? Guess there wasn't there? There was a 633 00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:10,839 Speaker 1: list though the Washington Post that said, like, you know 634 00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:14,080 Speaker 1: what the most sexist and like most sexist places are 635 00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:17,880 Speaker 1: in America, It's mostly concentrated south of the Mason Dixon. 636 00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:24,239 Speaker 1: Our theory about the window out the window, definitely, I 637 00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:27,440 Speaker 1: believe media has a I'm always like the media as 638 00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:32,520 Speaker 1: a huge role. I'm sure that because we do are 639 00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:35,799 Speaker 1: we have for a while lad the world in like Hollywood, 640 00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:40,000 Speaker 1: um and exporting our media. I think that that is 641 00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:44,520 Speaker 1: certainly at play. Yeah, yeah, and we were and we 642 00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:50,719 Speaker 1: were built on a Puritan society and so there are 643 00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:54,239 Speaker 1: those values still echoing around. And I think also just 644 00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:58,239 Speaker 1: like you know, manifest destiny is all about domination and dominance, 645 00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:01,279 Speaker 1: and you know, the whole country is built off this 646 00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:05,200 Speaker 1: idea is like we're gonna take what. I'm like, this 647 00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:07,200 Speaker 1: whole country is built on this sort of sentiment of 648 00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:10,080 Speaker 1: like we will take whatever we want to kick whoever 649 00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:13,440 Speaker 1: it is off because we deserve it. And it's just 650 00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:16,719 Speaker 1: that's this. It's like this idea of dominance is just 651 00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:20,120 Speaker 1: constantly so I mean a lot of histories, but especially 652 00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:23,359 Speaker 1: when you think of the displacement of like indigenous people 653 00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:25,560 Speaker 1: and slavery and things like that, dominance is just such 654 00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:29,040 Speaker 1: a huge part of it, right, And it's sort of 655 00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:32,600 Speaker 1: a lie the you know, the people who were here 656 00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:37,520 Speaker 1: died off from a plague and right, But but that 657 00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:40,719 Speaker 1: lie is important to our self identity, like telling ourselves 658 00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:43,960 Speaker 1: that we dominated and that's why we're here, as opposed 659 00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:46,400 Speaker 1: to I think you're right. You know, countries in Europe, 660 00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:51,759 Speaker 1: a lot of them the culture lasts because of things 661 00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:55,520 Speaker 1: like tradition, and so like tradition is valuable to them 662 00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:58,759 Speaker 1: and things they've done for years that their parents did, 663 00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:03,400 Speaker 1: Like that's more important to and then violence, right, And 664 00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:06,719 Speaker 1: if if you think about the time after World War 665 00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:11,880 Speaker 1: Two where this is like American exceptionalism is really in 666 00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:14,920 Speaker 1: full swing and there's all of this disposable income, and 667 00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:17,120 Speaker 1: this is when there's the time of like the stay 668 00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:20,960 Speaker 1: at home housewife and that that's what women did and 669 00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:23,319 Speaker 1: men went out and made money, um, And it was 670 00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:26,480 Speaker 1: this kind of prosperous time. And right now all of 671 00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:29,920 Speaker 1: the nostalgia, the very toxic and my opinion, nostalgia for 672 00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:33,279 Speaker 1: like make America great again. What they're remembering is that. 673 00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:37,040 Speaker 1: But in Europe it was war torn and they were 674 00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:40,760 Speaker 1: rebuilding and depending on the United States for for money. 675 00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:44,160 Speaker 1: I think if we're looking at the generations now that 676 00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:49,000 Speaker 1: we're hearing so loudly um with this vitriol, it's just 677 00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:51,840 Speaker 1: very different. And that's not to say there's not problems 678 00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:55,680 Speaker 1: in Europe at all, but just like trying to think 679 00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:58,560 Speaker 1: of why the United States is behind in this issue, 680 00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:02,600 Speaker 1: I think that that could be part of it as well. Yeah, 681 00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:04,680 Speaker 1: And I guess also to your point of like not 682 00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:08,560 Speaker 1: being invaded, right, that's that's a level of vulnerability that 683 00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:13,360 Speaker 1: as a country we're not experiencing and we don't acknowledge 684 00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:16,359 Speaker 1: because it's allowed us to think we're invulnerable in a way. 685 00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:19,480 Speaker 1: So then to look at you know, just masculine as 686 00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:23,279 Speaker 1: being invulnerable or invincible and these things contributes that because 687 00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:25,520 Speaker 1: I even think, you know, my mom, she's from Japan 688 00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:28,560 Speaker 1: and she was born right after the A bombs went off, 689 00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:32,680 Speaker 1: and everyone from all my family members who grew up there, 690 00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:35,400 Speaker 1: the way they talked about as they were tremendously vulnerable, 691 00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:38,560 Speaker 1: and there was this like idea looking at everyone of 692 00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:42,120 Speaker 1: like we're picking up the pieces in an ash pile 693 00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:45,600 Speaker 1: and trying to create some normalcy again. But there's this 694 00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:49,719 Speaker 1: idea that everyone, you know, like everyone acknowledges. Yes, we 695 00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:53,160 Speaker 1: don't have we don't have the luxury of thinking everything 696 00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:54,960 Speaker 1: is fine or going to be okay because we just 697 00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:57,799 Speaker 1: went through something that shows that we are very much 698 00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:01,480 Speaker 1: vulnerable and have something too, you know, rebuild around. And 699 00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:04,479 Speaker 1: I wonder if that also helps connect people too, because 700 00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:07,240 Speaker 1: there's more of a like we're truly in this together. 701 00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:09,839 Speaker 1: We can see that each others equals because we're all 702 00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:12,400 Speaker 1: kind of starting from the same place. Yeah, and I 703 00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:15,359 Speaker 1: I wonder too if it has to do with how 704 00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:20,640 Speaker 1: we elect people versus how other countries elect people, because 705 00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:23,520 Speaker 1: I know a lot of times the way that a 706 00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:27,440 Speaker 1: woman got the like top position in the country is 707 00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:32,520 Speaker 1: her party elected her, like parliament elected her, whatever party 708 00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:35,200 Speaker 1: she's in in parliament, and then if there's a change 709 00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:38,759 Speaker 1: of power, then she gets the top job. So it's 710 00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:43,840 Speaker 1: kind of yeah, so I bet that that also is 711 00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:51,239 Speaker 1: something that's going on. So it's like twenty different things. Yeah, yeah, complex. 712 00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:54,680 Speaker 1: Oh no, I'm looking for something that will fit on 713 00:44:54,680 --> 00:45:00,200 Speaker 1: one note card, will work on it. It's the one 714 00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:06,400 Speaker 1: bullet point is it's complicated, right. There was a study 715 00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:09,400 Speaker 1: out of the Harvard Kennedy School of Women in Public 716 00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:13,400 Speaker 1: Policy program that found that when participants saw men power seeking, 717 00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:16,480 Speaker 1: they were essentially like good for him, and they attributed 718 00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:19,440 Speaker 1: all these positive traits to him, like confidence, being assertive. 719 00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:22,319 Speaker 1: But when they saw women being assertive, the participants had 720 00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:26,359 Speaker 1: a different reaction. They quote experienced feelings of moral outrage 721 00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:30,439 Speaker 1: like contempt, anger or discussed towards these women and saw 722 00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:37,640 Speaker 1: them as less supportive or caring. Wow, moral outrage, oral 723 00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:43,560 Speaker 1: outrage discussed. Yeah, look at I have absolutely seen that 724 00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:46,840 Speaker 1: though I have seen that in the way people respond 725 00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:51,200 Speaker 1: to Elizabeth Warren and Hillary Clinton just being like yeah, 726 00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:55,040 Speaker 1: you know, I think it's disgusting, or even just on Twitter. 727 00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:58,600 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, someone who's not even a celebrity. Right, Oh 728 00:45:58,680 --> 00:46:02,319 Speaker 1: my gosh, just at every right. Yeah, weren't they like 729 00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:06,680 Speaker 1: my mom? Although when I think about my mom, she 730 00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:13,239 Speaker 1: was very aggressive, So I'm like, nope, I enjoy those trains. Yeah, 731 00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:17,719 Speaker 1: come on, yeah, but yeah, the idea the moral outrage 732 00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:20,400 Speaker 1: is like the I don't I can't understand the morality 733 00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:25,279 Speaker 1: of being assertive or honoring your desires and trying to 734 00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:29,480 Speaker 1: go after them. Yeah. I think that what you said 735 00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:32,400 Speaker 1: earlier about the puritanical roots, I think has something to 736 00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:35,960 Speaker 1: do with that. Um. And this isn't to disparage, but 737 00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:39,759 Speaker 1: you know, in the Bible, it's pretty like women you 738 00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:42,960 Speaker 1: do this thing, well, men go do all the other 739 00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:45,720 Speaker 1: important stuff. You stay at home. If yeah, if Eve 740 00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:49,640 Speaker 1: would have just listened you not talked to that freaky snake, 741 00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:56,200 Speaker 1: we wouldn't all be sinners exactly. That is somewhat uh 742 00:46:56,480 --> 00:47:01,279 Speaker 1: particular to the Judeo Christian Bible, and the Koran is 743 00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:05,800 Speaker 1: still has some messed up stuff in there about women. 744 00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:11,560 Speaker 1: But you also noticed that Muslim majority Muslim countries have 745 00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:16,120 Speaker 1: a better record when it comes to women running being 746 00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:20,000 Speaker 1: heads of state, So so something to consider. Another thing, 747 00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:24,279 Speaker 1: yet another thing. Yes, I was looking into this, this 748 00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:27,280 Speaker 1: whole likability factor when it comes to your presidential candidates, 749 00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:30,319 Speaker 1: and a lot of researchers say Ronald Reagan was one 750 00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:34,480 Speaker 1: of the first instances that demonstrated the power of likability 751 00:47:34,520 --> 00:47:37,399 Speaker 1: in our politics because he won by a landslide even 752 00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:42,560 Speaker 1: though he wasn't really qualified in nineteen eighty Right, I 753 00:47:42,719 --> 00:47:54,000 Speaker 1: was a cowboy, Yeah, yeah, very masculine thing to be right, Yeah, yeah, 754 00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:58,160 Speaker 1: does John Wayne without just just with a little bit 755 00:47:58,280 --> 00:48:02,920 Speaker 1: less out there racism. And then when George and then 756 00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:06,239 Speaker 1: when Georgia H. W. Bush came along, even though his 757 00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:11,880 Speaker 1: background was c I A you know, uh, probably lots 758 00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:16,560 Speaker 1: of lots of dark things in his history, dark violent actions, 759 00:48:16,680 --> 00:48:18,759 Speaker 1: the media just had it in their head that he 760 00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:24,319 Speaker 1: was a whimp, teasing him, calling him a whimp. And he, uh, 761 00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:29,560 Speaker 1: some would argue, went to various wars and invaded Panama 762 00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:33,280 Speaker 1: because of the media teasing him as for being a whimp, 763 00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:37,360 Speaker 1: because it was being masculine and you're not a cowboy, 764 00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:40,680 Speaker 1: why are you all quiet over their glasses, right exactly. 765 00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:45,440 Speaker 1: Whim whim is such a playground and soul every time 766 00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:51,640 Speaker 1: I heard it kind of cracks me up. Whimp. But 767 00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:55,680 Speaker 1: the question of women in public being likable goes way back. 768 00:48:55,840 --> 00:48:58,560 Speaker 1: Wait wait wait, wait, way back. Um. But first we 769 00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:00,400 Speaker 1: have one more quick break for word from our sponsor. 770 00:49:10,719 --> 00:49:14,160 Speaker 1: We're back, Thank you sponsor. The first woman elected to 771 00:49:14,239 --> 00:49:17,640 Speaker 1: US Congress in nineteen seventeen, Jeanette Rankin, was applauded in 772 00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:25,399 Speaker 1: the press for being gentle and feminine likable. Yeah, um, 773 00:49:25,480 --> 00:49:28,279 Speaker 1: likability issues or as old as the suffage movement. That's 774 00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:31,279 Speaker 1: according to Don Teele, who is a political scientist a 775 00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:34,799 Speaker 1: political science professor at the University of Pennsylvania. Um, and 776 00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:37,760 Speaker 1: words like shrill and ugly did start to be used 777 00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:43,480 Speaker 1: more when first wave feminism was rising up. Yeah, I 778 00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:46,799 Speaker 1: think shrill is a good one to just kind of 779 00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:50,000 Speaker 1: stow away in your brain, as any time you hear that, 780 00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:55,160 Speaker 1: you can a person has seated their reasonable argument. Right. 781 00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:58,399 Speaker 1: I think likable is another one, But shrill is sort 782 00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:02,040 Speaker 1: of a a should set off alarm bells as Okay, 783 00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:05,440 Speaker 1: this person is talking about something that they don't realize 784 00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:09,160 Speaker 1: they're talking about. But you're talking about their own and 785 00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:16,080 Speaker 1: built of biases on gender and sex. Yeah, when Donald 786 00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:19,759 Speaker 1: Trump used he used shrill and nasty woman, I was 787 00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:24,760 Speaker 1: kind of shocked. It was like so outright that I 788 00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:27,160 Speaker 1: almost couldn't believe it. But that's just his emo. He 789 00:50:27,239 --> 00:50:31,480 Speaker 1: does that with homophobia, he does it with a racism. Ah. 790 00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:34,759 Speaker 1: But yeah, he definitely used those two words that I 791 00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:41,080 Speaker 1: was taken aback. Doesn't he know we're a pro Trump podcast, 792 00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:48,240 Speaker 1: The Daily, So my apologies, my apologies to let people 793 00:50:48,280 --> 00:50:52,040 Speaker 1: think that, um, and I did want to bring up 794 00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:54,120 Speaker 1: you can see this through the lens of race as well, 795 00:50:54,120 --> 00:50:56,919 Speaker 1: like going back to Sir Williams, like the angry black woman, 796 00:50:57,360 --> 00:51:00,520 Speaker 1: the spicy latina, which again these are things that are 797 00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:06,200 Speaker 1: like to shut women down when you say that, and 798 00:51:06,239 --> 00:51:10,400 Speaker 1: the angry black woman, it's like there's just again, we 799 00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:15,520 Speaker 1: don't like people sticking up for yourself. Is angry or spicy? Yeah, 800 00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:20,080 Speaker 1: we prefer mild, right, we prefer smild to spice it. 801 00:51:20,200 --> 00:51:25,759 Speaker 1: We don't want fuego sauce. Um. There's another study I 802 00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:27,680 Speaker 1: found in researching this that I wanted to bring up. 803 00:51:28,360 --> 00:51:30,400 Speaker 1: It was it was from this Glamour article I was 804 00:51:30,480 --> 00:51:33,720 Speaker 1: reading and It had two versions of a negative political ad. 805 00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:36,960 Speaker 1: One was narrated by a male candidate and one by 806 00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:39,879 Speaker 1: a female candidate. Both versions use the same words, are 807 00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:42,239 Speaker 1: at the same decibel volume, and yet listeners were more 808 00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:45,200 Speaker 1: likely to describe the version with a woman's voice as louder, 809 00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:51,319 Speaker 1: more negative, and less likable. Yep, yep. We've done that 810 00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:55,000 Speaker 1: experiment in our office once with two videos, same video, 811 00:51:55,080 --> 00:51:57,640 Speaker 1: one male host, one with a female host. All of 812 00:51:57,640 --> 00:51:59,839 Speaker 1: the comments on the one hosted by the man, we're 813 00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:03,400 Speaker 1: great job, very informative. All the comments on the one, well, 814 00:52:03,400 --> 00:52:06,440 Speaker 1: not all, but most of them were about her appearance. 815 00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:08,319 Speaker 1: They didn't think she was competent, She didn't know what 816 00:52:08,360 --> 00:52:14,560 Speaker 1: she was talking about. Wow, what happened when people realized 817 00:52:14,600 --> 00:52:16,960 Speaker 1: they were part of an experiment? I don't know that 818 00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:19,120 Speaker 1: we ever announced it. I did print out some of 819 00:52:19,160 --> 00:52:22,799 Speaker 1: my favorite mean comments and I made a collage of them, 820 00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:24,800 Speaker 1: and I'm hoping to do like a modern art piece 821 00:52:24,840 --> 00:52:31,560 Speaker 1: with it and invite all those commentators to the view 822 00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:35,520 Speaker 1: of the modern art piece and then beat them up 823 00:52:35,560 --> 00:52:37,399 Speaker 1: one by one. I don't know what it would be 824 00:52:37,480 --> 00:52:40,800 Speaker 1: like though, when people then are confronted with that, Because 825 00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:43,359 Speaker 1: a lot of these people I'm sure they would out 826 00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:45,319 Speaker 1: out like outwardly be like, oh I'm you know, I'm 827 00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:48,239 Speaker 1: an ally r something. Then let these kind of weird 828 00:52:48,239 --> 00:52:51,120 Speaker 1: comments set in, and then you say, oh guess what, friend, 829 00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:54,319 Speaker 1: Uh look at your response to these two things are 830 00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:57,080 Speaker 1: like very different. What then how that would get someone's 831 00:52:57,080 --> 00:52:58,719 Speaker 1: wheels trying to be like, oh, well, you know, I 832 00:52:59,640 --> 00:53:01,560 Speaker 1: that's just I don't know. I just felt more inclined 833 00:53:01,560 --> 00:53:03,160 Speaker 1: to respond to that. I also felt that about the man, 834 00:53:03,200 --> 00:53:05,520 Speaker 1: but you know what I mean, like someone would try 835 00:53:05,560 --> 00:53:10,279 Speaker 1: and backpedal from that. It's interesting because yeah, sometimes when 836 00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:14,320 Speaker 1: you confront somebody about, you know, a mean comment or 837 00:53:14,360 --> 00:53:18,080 Speaker 1: an ignorant comment, they'll just be uh, you know, they'll 838 00:53:18,120 --> 00:53:19,879 Speaker 1: be like, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry, I had 839 00:53:19,880 --> 00:53:23,560 Speaker 1: no idea. And other times they'll just double down or 840 00:53:23,600 --> 00:53:26,560 Speaker 1: they're just really angry and they again they want to 841 00:53:26,560 --> 00:53:29,960 Speaker 1: feel like they're in control by goading someone to responding 842 00:53:30,040 --> 00:53:35,279 Speaker 1: and then e D solved. Is this something the both 843 00:53:35,320 --> 00:53:39,120 Speaker 1: of you have some experience with. Yeah, I'm it's I 844 00:53:39,320 --> 00:53:43,719 Speaker 1: you know, I'm always constantly looking for remedies for is 845 00:53:43,719 --> 00:53:45,400 Speaker 1: that what you were? Sorry? I was at the question, 846 00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:52,240 Speaker 1: Oh wow, okay, then I was then he wasn't talking. 847 00:53:54,239 --> 00:53:57,640 Speaker 1: I'm fine, I'm fine, actually sure, Oh yeah, I know, 848 00:53:57,760 --> 00:53:59,640 Speaker 1: I believe it. No, I mean I think you know, 849 00:53:59,680 --> 00:54:02,080 Speaker 1: they're they're actually our moments. Even on our show, I 850 00:54:02,200 --> 00:54:06,560 Speaker 1: noticed where if women had interesting takes on science that 851 00:54:06,600 --> 00:54:09,640 Speaker 1: were maybe you know, outside of the mainstream. Even you know, 852 00:54:09,640 --> 00:54:12,359 Speaker 1: our show is a comedy show where people might say 853 00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:16,960 Speaker 1: something about something science adjacent, adjacent, people really come out 854 00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:19,439 Speaker 1: in the comments to be like, I really didn't like that, 855 00:54:19,440 --> 00:54:22,040 Speaker 1: that was this this this men and women. Yet when 856 00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:25,080 Speaker 1: a lot of men come on and say just absurd stuff, 857 00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:28,520 Speaker 1: and sometimes there they believe what they say, you know, 858 00:54:28,600 --> 00:54:32,640 Speaker 1: everyone there's a degree of of humor to what everyone's saying. 859 00:54:32,920 --> 00:54:36,240 Speaker 1: But again, we see I've I've definitely noticed that where 860 00:54:36,320 --> 00:54:41,280 Speaker 1: people they definitely have the energy you sort of call, 861 00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:45,440 Speaker 1: uh like a woman's commentary out yep. Yeah. Yeah. And 862 00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:47,560 Speaker 1: we're a show that is, you know, on its face 863 00:54:48,200 --> 00:54:50,839 Speaker 1: not We're we absolutely try and make it a point 864 00:54:50,840 --> 00:54:54,080 Speaker 1: to not dabble in any kind of toxic masculinity and 865 00:54:54,120 --> 00:54:56,440 Speaker 1: be is like even handed with what our takes are. 866 00:54:56,480 --> 00:54:58,600 Speaker 1: But it's still I think there's still just sort of 867 00:54:58,600 --> 00:55:02,600 Speaker 1: that like there's an inbuilt sort of misogyny, internalized misogyny 868 00:55:02,640 --> 00:55:05,879 Speaker 1: that creeps up. Yeah. I think the response sometimes is 869 00:55:05,960 --> 00:55:09,360 Speaker 1: why didn't you stop her? Why didn't get why didn't 870 00:55:09,400 --> 00:55:14,920 Speaker 1: you guys down? And it's like, you know, that's them 871 00:55:15,040 --> 00:55:18,759 Speaker 1: internalizing like how this is supposed to go basically that 872 00:55:18,840 --> 00:55:21,000 Speaker 1: you have to swat it down, right, And I'm like, well, no, 873 00:55:21,200 --> 00:55:23,160 Speaker 1: that's that's what they wanted to say. I didn't. I 874 00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:25,360 Speaker 1: never said I agreed with it, but I'm you know, 875 00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:29,560 Speaker 1: the shows for people to express themselves, not enough interrupting, right, 876 00:55:31,680 --> 00:55:34,840 Speaker 1: you should have told her to smile more. Yeah, we 877 00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:37,879 Speaker 1: can hear that through audio. Um. I do think it's 878 00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:41,359 Speaker 1: a I have personally witnessed the same thing where it's 879 00:55:41,880 --> 00:55:47,080 Speaker 1: it seems to be worse in fields like science. Yeah, yeah, 880 00:55:47,120 --> 00:55:50,560 Speaker 1: which is interesting. But going back to like politics and 881 00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:55,160 Speaker 1: lik ability. According to the Barbara Lee Family Foundation, and 882 00:55:55,200 --> 00:55:57,440 Speaker 1: this is the foundation that studies the representation of women 883 00:55:57,440 --> 00:56:01,560 Speaker 1: in politics, they found in twenty tend, the most significant 884 00:56:01,560 --> 00:56:05,160 Speaker 1: predictor when it came to the possibility for a successful 885 00:56:05,200 --> 00:56:08,440 Speaker 1: candidacy for a woman was likability. And that is a 886 00:56:08,480 --> 00:56:12,399 Speaker 1: big deal because it directly impacts representation and who gets 887 00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:16,400 Speaker 1: a seat at the table and on top of that, 888 00:56:17,760 --> 00:56:22,760 Speaker 1: Other than being quiet and not threatening long accepted social norms, 889 00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:27,000 Speaker 1: what is liability? Some people said it was being honest, um, 890 00:56:27,239 --> 00:56:30,560 Speaker 1: looking the part, which, okay, that's a big can of 891 00:56:30,640 --> 00:56:38,239 Speaker 1: worms problem solver. Like, but I don't just vague terms 892 00:56:38,280 --> 00:56:47,040 Speaker 1: that mean good. I like you mean integrity, nah. Likability Okay, 893 00:56:47,200 --> 00:56:49,960 Speaker 1: you mean someone who is willing to sort of think 894 00:56:50,040 --> 00:56:54,200 Speaker 1: out an issue and to find a solution. Nah, likability, 895 00:56:55,040 --> 00:56:58,520 Speaker 1: problem solver, whatever that is. I feel like looking the 896 00:56:58,560 --> 00:57:04,120 Speaker 1: part would be being a man, right, yeah for real? Yeah. 897 00:57:04,560 --> 00:57:08,319 Speaker 1: Vermont's first female and first Jewish governor, Madeline Cunan wrote 898 00:57:08,320 --> 00:57:11,239 Speaker 1: about this um and she wrote, if you're tough enough 899 00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:13,560 Speaker 1: to be commander in chief, you're not likable. You lose 900 00:57:13,600 --> 00:57:15,960 Speaker 1: some of your femininity. So women have to walk a 901 00:57:16,080 --> 00:57:18,880 Speaker 1: very fine line to be both, and usually they don't 902 00:57:18,880 --> 00:57:21,040 Speaker 1: wear well over time. I would agree that's kind of 903 00:57:21,040 --> 00:57:23,040 Speaker 1: like the cool girl thing where you can do it 904 00:57:23,080 --> 00:57:28,360 Speaker 1: for a little bit but it wears off. Yeah, I'd 905 00:57:28,440 --> 00:57:32,960 Speaker 1: imagine that would be incredibly exhausting to have to be 906 00:57:33,360 --> 00:57:39,800 Speaker 1: responding to criticism from idiots who you know are making 907 00:57:39,920 --> 00:57:43,600 Speaker 1: points that like are are incorrect, and you are having 908 00:57:43,680 --> 00:57:48,600 Speaker 1: to do like that that's the thing with Yeah, like 909 00:57:48,640 --> 00:57:51,880 Speaker 1: Elizabeth Warren, if she does drink a beer and it 910 00:57:51,880 --> 00:57:55,960 Speaker 1: doesn't seem authentic, maybe it's not authentic because she feels 911 00:57:55,960 --> 00:57:58,640 Speaker 1: a little off kilter because she's having to react to 912 00:57:58,680 --> 00:58:02,920 Speaker 1: your stupid criticism all the time. Um, yeah, I don't know, 913 00:58:03,240 --> 00:58:07,440 Speaker 1: it's it. I I think that it must be just 914 00:58:08,400 --> 00:58:13,360 Speaker 1: this can't be very healthy for you know, a person's 915 00:58:13,400 --> 00:58:18,160 Speaker 1: mental health to have to deal with this sort of Yes, yeah, 916 00:58:18,440 --> 00:58:22,080 Speaker 1: I agree, And I think it's it's just a lot 917 00:58:22,160 --> 00:58:24,360 Speaker 1: to ask and we're asking it if someone who, in 918 00:58:24,480 --> 00:58:27,680 Speaker 1: theory is going to be like in charge of our 919 00:58:27,680 --> 00:58:30,320 Speaker 1: country and one of the most powerful people in the world, 920 00:58:30,520 --> 00:58:33,320 Speaker 1: and we're basing it on I. I don't know. I 921 00:58:33,320 --> 00:58:36,000 Speaker 1: guess I like her, it doesn't write I don't. I 922 00:58:36,000 --> 00:58:38,440 Speaker 1: don't believe she really liked that beer. Um so I 923 00:58:38,480 --> 00:58:42,640 Speaker 1: was like, yeah, wait, she was a Special Forces pilot, okay, 924 00:58:42,760 --> 00:58:49,080 Speaker 1: but she have grandma glasses, right, I don't know. I 925 00:58:47,920 --> 00:58:52,200 Speaker 1: can can't let that stand. Look, the part that's it 926 00:58:52,680 --> 00:58:55,920 Speaker 1: like that you mentioned the cool girl thing. That reminds 927 00:58:55,920 --> 00:58:59,360 Speaker 1: me of the monologue from Gone Girl, which is one 928 00:58:59,400 --> 00:59:02,640 Speaker 1: of my monalogs. Every Where she talks about you know, 929 00:59:02,760 --> 00:59:06,640 Speaker 1: having to pretend to be something you're not, and eventually 930 00:59:06,680 --> 00:59:10,320 Speaker 1: you're going to start murdering people, as that movie taught us. Right, Yeah, 931 00:59:10,480 --> 00:59:13,080 Speaker 1: that's the eventual outcome. So we should be very concerned 932 00:59:13,080 --> 00:59:16,160 Speaker 1: about this whole thing as it turns out. That's right 933 00:59:17,920 --> 00:59:20,600 Speaker 1: for all of you. Oh I would watch that horror 934 00:59:20,640 --> 00:59:24,520 Speaker 1: movie in a heartbeat. Oh yeah, I would watch that 935 00:59:24,560 --> 00:59:26,360 Speaker 1: if it was an action movie, if it was just 936 00:59:26,440 --> 00:59:29,720 Speaker 1: like Rambo, just her going through and getting her revenge. 937 00:59:30,920 --> 00:59:34,640 Speaker 1: I want to see that now in a mex suit, maybe, 938 00:59:34,840 --> 00:59:41,000 Speaker 1: like just to make it like extra efficient. Yeah, somebody listening, 939 00:59:41,040 --> 00:59:43,800 Speaker 1: please make that. I mean, yeah, who do we know 940 00:59:43,800 --> 00:59:46,439 Speaker 1: who she's represented by? Maybe we can inspect script get 941 00:59:46,440 --> 00:59:48,720 Speaker 1: that to her. I think I would love to see 942 00:59:48,720 --> 00:59:53,240 Speaker 1: her act in it, Yeah, especially cathartic. Yes, it needs 943 00:59:53,240 --> 00:59:56,440 Speaker 1: to be her. Yeah, and I think her acting won't 944 00:59:56,440 --> 00:59:58,800 Speaker 1: be very good, and I'm very excited about that. I 945 00:59:58,800 --> 01:00:00,240 Speaker 1: think it's going to be kind of like still, did 946 01:00:01,640 --> 01:00:03,200 Speaker 1: you know you know what? She won't have to say 947 01:00:03,240 --> 01:00:07,200 Speaker 1: a thing, right, Yeah, she's omnipotent. She doesn't even need 948 01:00:07,240 --> 01:00:10,480 Speaker 1: to use words. She just pulls up vaporizes Trump with 949 01:00:10,520 --> 01:00:14,080 Speaker 1: her like with her blinks. It'll be the first special 950 01:00:14,120 --> 01:00:18,800 Speaker 1: effects like green screen thing where we're actually showing her 951 01:00:18,880 --> 01:00:22,640 Speaker 1: what the audience is seeing, so we can capture her 952 01:00:22,680 --> 01:00:28,640 Speaker 1: performance as she witnesses just Donald Trump blown to pieces. 953 01:00:29,360 --> 01:00:32,160 Speaker 1: This sounds very cathartic for all of us. Yeah, I know, 954 01:00:32,480 --> 01:00:34,640 Speaker 1: I'm getting way too into this. I'm like, okay, so 955 01:00:34,760 --> 01:00:36,920 Speaker 1: here's how we do it, guys. It's gonna be claymation 956 01:00:37,280 --> 01:00:41,240 Speaker 1: stop motion, okay. Or every time she smiles it unleashes 957 01:00:41,280 --> 01:00:43,640 Speaker 1: this energy burst because like, you should smile more. And 958 01:00:43,680 --> 01:00:48,760 Speaker 1: it's like, no, oh, I think this is an Oscar winner. 959 01:00:49,000 --> 01:00:51,120 Speaker 1: This is something we got an animated We got an 960 01:00:51,160 --> 01:00:54,160 Speaker 1: animated short at the very least anyone is good at 961 01:00:54,200 --> 01:00:59,040 Speaker 1: flash animation. I am so into this, so into this 962 01:01:00,040 --> 01:01:04,960 Speaker 1: called hell hath no fury? Wow, or that would be 963 01:01:05,040 --> 01:01:07,880 Speaker 1: the tagline I'm not going to be able to sleep tonight. 964 01:01:07,880 --> 01:01:12,240 Speaker 1: It would be called He'll hath no fury. Yeah, he's 965 01:01:12,280 --> 01:01:15,040 Speaker 1: not the best in the biz for nothing, folks. This 966 01:01:15,120 --> 01:01:17,480 Speaker 1: is so good. I mean, it's coming up with ideas 967 01:01:17,480 --> 01:01:20,800 Speaker 1: that will never be made. Baby, this whole episode is, 968 01:01:21,880 --> 01:01:25,280 Speaker 1: it's been great. But that alone, Oh, I'm so glad 969 01:01:25,280 --> 01:01:28,280 Speaker 1: we got that out of it. We just cut it 970 01:01:28,320 --> 01:01:33,080 Speaker 1: down to this pitch. I love it, Jack and Miles, 971 01:01:33,240 --> 01:01:37,320 Speaker 1: he'll hath no fury. Well, thanks so much for joining us. 972 01:01:39,720 --> 01:01:42,480 Speaker 1: I love it, I love it. Um. I did want 973 01:01:42,520 --> 01:01:45,320 Speaker 1: to add on here that likability politics does exist for 974 01:01:45,400 --> 01:01:48,840 Speaker 1: both men and women. But the Foundation's research, the Foundation 975 01:01:48,840 --> 01:01:50,920 Speaker 1: I was talking about earlier, I found the same thing 976 01:01:50,920 --> 01:01:53,240 Speaker 1: that other studies have found, that female candidates have to 977 01:01:53,280 --> 01:01:56,160 Speaker 1: be viewed as both likable and qualified, but for men, 978 01:01:56,240 --> 01:01:58,960 Speaker 1: you just have to be seen as qualified. Likability is 979 01:01:59,000 --> 01:02:05,240 Speaker 1: a plus, but it's optional, right right, And yeah, one 980 01:02:05,280 --> 01:02:09,120 Speaker 1: thing we um have kind of been. I think it's obvious, 981 01:02:09,240 --> 01:02:14,080 Speaker 1: but politics is not the only arena where this problem exists, right, Yeah, 982 01:02:14,160 --> 01:02:17,080 Speaker 1: it's pretty much everywhere. We see it with celebrities. I 983 01:02:17,120 --> 01:02:18,920 Speaker 1: love when a male celebrity says he's a feminist and 984 01:02:18,920 --> 01:02:21,400 Speaker 1: everyone's like, oh, he's the bass, and a female celebrity 985 01:02:21,440 --> 01:02:23,440 Speaker 1: says it and they're like, oh, she's not. Did you 986 01:02:23,480 --> 01:02:27,840 Speaker 1: see those outfits she was wearing? Yeah? Right, Oh, feminists 987 01:02:27,840 --> 01:02:33,080 Speaker 1: can't dress how they want to know. No, No, that's ridiculous. 988 01:02:33,320 --> 01:02:37,760 Speaker 1: That's my favorite argument I am argumenting. Oh, well, I 989 01:02:37,760 --> 01:02:39,800 Speaker 1: don't know if feminist dressed like that. I'm sorry, what 990 01:02:39,880 --> 01:02:44,720 Speaker 1: is your idea of right exactly, everybody becomes a fashion 991 01:02:44,840 --> 01:02:47,280 Speaker 1: critic all of a sudden, these guys who like shop 992 01:02:47,280 --> 01:02:53,040 Speaker 1: at bass Bro great store by the way, sharing all 993 01:02:53,040 --> 01:02:55,280 Speaker 1: my fashion takes from the guy in the camo under 994 01:02:55,320 --> 01:03:01,800 Speaker 1: our as you should, as you should. The article I 995 01:03:01,840 --> 01:03:05,560 Speaker 1: found that called for employees to submit employee reviews, and 996 01:03:05,600 --> 01:03:08,600 Speaker 1: through analyzing these reviews, the article's author, who's the CEO 997 01:03:08,840 --> 01:03:13,160 Speaker 1: Kieren Schneider, found that of the almost two reviews submitted, 998 01:03:13,480 --> 01:03:16,080 Speaker 1: fifty eight point nine percent of the male employee reviews 999 01:03:16,280 --> 01:03:19,520 Speaker 1: came with critical feedback. For women, that number was eighty 1000 01:03:19,560 --> 01:03:23,280 Speaker 1: seven point nine. Two out of the three critical reviews 1001 01:03:23,280 --> 01:03:26,960 Speaker 1: for me employees criticized tone, but seventy one of the 1002 01:03:27,640 --> 01:03:36,720 Speaker 1: critical reviews for female employees did. That massive number is incredible. 1003 01:03:36,920 --> 01:03:40,560 Speaker 1: Zone is code for I don't want to feel emasculated, 1004 01:03:41,800 --> 01:03:47,240 Speaker 1: right right, It's just but I don't know, it's again, 1005 01:03:47,320 --> 01:03:48,880 Speaker 1: I mean, it's a lot of things that like, when 1006 01:03:48,920 --> 01:03:53,480 Speaker 1: you actually read statistics, it's so much uh, I don't know, 1007 01:03:53,600 --> 01:03:55,920 Speaker 1: it really brings it more to the surface. I mean, 1008 01:03:56,000 --> 01:03:58,320 Speaker 1: not that I was like ignorant of these kinds of things, 1009 01:03:58,320 --> 01:04:02,360 Speaker 1: but when you actually these examples are give me for 1010 01:04:02,400 --> 01:04:05,480 Speaker 1: a ride. I'm just thinking how infuriating that must be 1011 01:04:05,600 --> 01:04:11,440 Speaker 1: for I mean, these are people talking about their boss, 1012 01:04:11,440 --> 01:04:15,960 Speaker 1: so there's so many like these are the employees just 1013 01:04:16,000 --> 01:04:18,200 Speaker 1: being like her tone is kind of like she needs 1014 01:04:18,240 --> 01:04:20,680 Speaker 1: to work on her tone. It's just like, what are 1015 01:04:20,720 --> 01:04:25,280 Speaker 1: you talking about? My boss is all like, yo, can 1016 01:04:25,280 --> 01:04:28,240 Speaker 1: you do this? And I was like, whoa your tone? Right? 1017 01:04:29,680 --> 01:04:33,320 Speaker 1: The boss of me? Boss? Who've been so bossy? Yeah, 1018 01:04:33,360 --> 01:04:35,440 Speaker 1: I'm you're so bored in it, but like, come on 1019 01:04:36,480 --> 01:04:39,880 Speaker 1: doing some grace. Bossy Pants, by the way, one of 1020 01:04:39,920 --> 01:04:46,479 Speaker 1: the great books. That's twenty years of my opinion. Yeah, 1021 01:04:46,600 --> 01:04:52,760 Speaker 1: that was a pro laugh every other sentence, and I 1022 01:04:52,800 --> 01:04:56,000 Speaker 1: did I wanna. I don't want to go super dark, 1023 01:04:56,040 --> 01:04:59,440 Speaker 1: but I do think that we should say here at 1024 01:04:59,440 --> 01:05:03,240 Speaker 1: the darkest inclusion, this pressure for women to be likable 1025 01:05:03,400 --> 01:05:06,640 Speaker 1: is dangerous. Maybe you didn't listen to your instincts that 1026 01:05:06,760 --> 01:05:08,720 Speaker 1: something is oft in a situation because you didn't want 1027 01:05:08,760 --> 01:05:11,760 Speaker 1: to be unlikable. Maybe you don't speak out, or you 1028 01:05:11,800 --> 01:05:13,600 Speaker 1: don't leave when you want to because you don't want 1029 01:05:13,600 --> 01:05:16,320 Speaker 1: to be unlikable. I can say personally, I have trouble 1030 01:05:16,520 --> 01:05:19,520 Speaker 1: physically raising my voice because I've been so conditioned that 1031 01:05:19,600 --> 01:05:22,160 Speaker 1: was not something women did, and that is dangerous, like, 1032 01:05:22,720 --> 01:05:26,560 Speaker 1: especially combined with the fear of violence resulting from rejection, um, 1033 01:05:26,680 --> 01:05:30,600 Speaker 1: de escalation, Women often due to let men down easy. Um. 1034 01:05:30,640 --> 01:05:33,000 Speaker 1: So I just want to put that grim kind of 1035 01:05:33,160 --> 01:05:37,120 Speaker 1: pin in here. It's not that's a very important and 1036 01:05:37,760 --> 01:05:41,480 Speaker 1: good point. Yeah, and again, look, ladies, please just take 1037 01:05:41,480 --> 01:05:49,840 Speaker 1: the wheel. Not going well at all. Yeah, I was 1038 01:05:49,920 --> 01:05:54,400 Speaker 1: born into this, but it please just take the wheel. Uh. 1039 01:05:54,720 --> 01:05:57,280 Speaker 1: Do you guys have any like I try to end 1040 01:05:57,320 --> 01:06:00,360 Speaker 1: on a positive note. I do think that we're talking 1041 01:06:00,400 --> 01:06:03,200 Speaker 1: about it. It is getting better. Um. Is there anything 1042 01:06:03,240 --> 01:06:06,080 Speaker 1: positive that that you can think of to to ender 1043 01:06:06,080 --> 01:06:13,920 Speaker 1: this on? Well, I think we just fixed it. That's one. Yeah, 1044 01:06:14,040 --> 01:06:16,960 Speaker 1: pat ourselves on the back for sure. Uh. You mean 1045 01:06:17,200 --> 01:06:19,200 Speaker 1: just good and and sort of what I see in 1046 01:06:19,480 --> 01:06:22,360 Speaker 1: the world today, or just something I really like, you know, 1047 01:06:22,520 --> 01:06:25,919 Speaker 1: I'll take either. No. I mean, the one thing that's 1048 01:06:25,960 --> 01:06:28,840 Speaker 1: a little bit just uh that makes me feel somewhat 1049 01:06:28,880 --> 01:06:32,080 Speaker 1: optimistic is just like with I mean, it's it's a 1050 01:06:32,160 --> 01:06:34,360 Speaker 1: dark thing that has a light side too. Just sort 1051 01:06:34,400 --> 01:06:37,840 Speaker 1: of all of the criticism of ilhan omar Uh coming 1052 01:06:37,840 --> 01:06:41,520 Speaker 1: out in the wild double standard that's being applied in 1053 01:06:41,560 --> 01:06:45,160 Speaker 1: her case, that there at least there is pushback to 1054 01:06:45,240 --> 01:06:48,400 Speaker 1: a degree that I've not seen before from other politicians 1055 01:06:48,480 --> 01:06:52,040 Speaker 1: and the media, because I feel like years ago stories 1056 01:06:52,080 --> 01:06:54,280 Speaker 1: like that would just be like, Yep, that's it. She 1057 01:06:54,520 --> 01:06:58,600 Speaker 1: said something anti semitic and that's that. And now they're like, 1058 01:06:58,680 --> 01:07:01,919 Speaker 1: at least some they'll there'll be some sort of there. 1059 01:07:01,960 --> 01:07:06,040 Speaker 1: There's a little more analysis now around well are we 1060 01:07:06,200 --> 01:07:08,880 Speaker 1: are wait? Are we the bad people here that we're 1061 01:07:08,920 --> 01:07:12,160 Speaker 1: only analyzing it one way? Uh? And I there there's 1062 01:07:12,160 --> 01:07:15,880 Speaker 1: just I don't know, there's some there's a slow, slow march. 1063 01:07:16,800 --> 01:07:18,760 Speaker 1: But yeah, but that's one thing that I was like, 1064 01:07:18,800 --> 01:07:21,959 Speaker 1: oh wow, Like years ago, I felt like the story 1065 01:07:22,080 --> 01:07:26,840 Speaker 1: just would have ended there. Yeah, yeah, I'll take it. 1066 01:07:27,000 --> 01:07:30,160 Speaker 1: I'll take it. And then that's like it's still dark. 1067 01:07:32,080 --> 01:07:37,360 Speaker 1: Even though it's a huge you know, it's not equal. 1068 01:07:37,680 --> 01:07:43,240 Speaker 1: There's still I think more women protagonists and movies today 1069 01:07:43,320 --> 01:07:47,960 Speaker 1: than ten years ago, which I guess is moving lightly 1070 01:07:48,000 --> 01:07:49,960 Speaker 1: in the right d Captain Marvel had like the biggest, 1071 01:07:50,160 --> 01:07:52,640 Speaker 1: one of the biggest Tuesdays ever for a Disney film, 1072 01:07:52,720 --> 01:07:58,720 Speaker 1: like a Tuesday. I do think that development. The more 1073 01:07:58,960 --> 01:08:04,320 Speaker 1: women get to do things in culture and in power, 1074 01:08:04,880 --> 01:08:09,560 Speaker 1: the more it will become it will become undeniable that 1075 01:08:10,480 --> 01:08:14,760 Speaker 1: they're just as good or better suited for these positions. 1076 01:08:15,240 --> 01:08:18,320 Speaker 1: And I think I think if we were living through 1077 01:08:18,320 --> 01:08:22,920 Speaker 1: the Hillary Clinton presidency right now, we'd be talking about 1078 01:08:22,920 --> 01:08:27,320 Speaker 1: our pants suit or or we'd be like, wow, why 1079 01:08:27,320 --> 01:08:32,080 Speaker 1: did it take us this long to elect a woman president? Probably, 1080 01:08:32,120 --> 01:08:33,960 Speaker 1: And also even like with film though too, you look 1081 01:08:34,000 --> 01:08:37,240 Speaker 1: at like clearly like we've hit peak ideas with like 1082 01:08:37,360 --> 01:08:41,400 Speaker 1: male dominated film industry, and now like with like female 1083 01:08:41,400 --> 01:08:44,120 Speaker 1: directors and writers are like making the best stuff now, 1084 01:08:44,200 --> 01:08:49,120 Speaker 1: and it's like, yeah, right, right, just let's let's let's 1085 01:08:49,120 --> 01:08:54,960 Speaker 1: include everyone and we'll actually see some some good things happen. Yeah, 1086 01:08:55,000 --> 01:08:57,559 Speaker 1: And I think that it's I'm a big believer if 1087 01:08:57,600 --> 01:08:59,559 Speaker 1: you if you see it, you can be it. So 1088 01:09:00,080 --> 01:09:02,720 Speaker 1: now that we have more female politicians, the number is 1089 01:09:02,760 --> 01:09:04,880 Speaker 1: still very small, but we do have more, and they're 1090 01:09:04,920 --> 01:09:07,439 Speaker 1: kind of out in the public, and I think I 1091 01:09:07,479 --> 01:09:11,000 Speaker 1: hope that younger girls see that and think to themselves, 1092 01:09:11,080 --> 01:09:13,000 Speaker 1: I can do that too. Are they see these female 1093 01:09:13,040 --> 01:09:16,800 Speaker 1: directors or these female lead action movies or whatever movies 1094 01:09:16,840 --> 01:09:19,360 Speaker 1: they might be, and think I can do that too, 1095 01:09:19,439 --> 01:09:26,240 Speaker 1: And then the number will just grow. That's my my hope. Yeah, 1096 01:09:26,439 --> 01:09:29,759 Speaker 1: And I think busting up gender norms and getting away 1097 01:09:29,760 --> 01:09:31,880 Speaker 1: from women have to be this way and men have 1098 01:09:31,960 --> 01:09:37,760 Speaker 1: to be that way super important. Yeah, agreed. Yes, I'll 1099 01:09:37,800 --> 01:09:40,840 Speaker 1: just be a little more flexible. Yeah, you know, and 1100 01:09:40,920 --> 01:09:43,519 Speaker 1: just I mean, really, the bottom line is how willing 1101 01:09:43,560 --> 01:09:47,280 Speaker 1: are we to accept new things? Right? You know? And 1102 01:09:47,280 --> 01:09:50,080 Speaker 1: it's it's fairly it's I think it's easy. Nothing's gonna 1103 01:09:50,120 --> 01:09:54,559 Speaker 1: harm you. Well, I don't know. I don't know. These 1104 01:09:54,600 --> 01:09:59,240 Speaker 1: scary scary women in there there. Yeah, these testicular bill 1105 01:09:59,280 --> 01:10:02,880 Speaker 1: of rights come and out. Now, believe that that's that's 1106 01:10:02,880 --> 01:10:06,799 Speaker 1: what happened. Permission I have to get permission for a vasectomy. 1107 01:10:07,240 --> 01:10:10,320 Speaker 1: That's right, that's right. I like to see you try that. 1108 01:10:10,840 --> 01:10:13,439 Speaker 1: Did you see that thing from Buffalo Wild Wings about 1109 01:10:13,479 --> 01:10:16,880 Speaker 1: the vasectomy chair? You know, this is a real tangent, 1110 01:10:16,920 --> 01:10:19,080 Speaker 1: but look it up after after this, I just can't 1111 01:10:19,120 --> 01:10:23,280 Speaker 1: recommend it enough. I do. Before we like the final note, 1112 01:10:23,280 --> 01:10:24,960 Speaker 1: before we close out, I do want to say, there 1113 01:10:25,120 --> 01:10:28,160 Speaker 1: is like no excuse for being a jerk. That's not 1114 01:10:28,160 --> 01:10:31,160 Speaker 1: necessarily what we're talking about when we say like ability, 1115 01:10:31,200 --> 01:10:37,400 Speaker 1: but different things. Right, You're right, and I I want 1116 01:10:37,400 --> 01:10:39,600 Speaker 1: to thank you both so much for for coming on 1117 01:10:39,640 --> 01:10:43,760 Speaker 1: the show and having this conversation. It's been super fun. Yeah, 1118 01:10:43,800 --> 01:10:48,559 Speaker 1: this has been so fun. Yea, anytime, anytime, and I 1119 01:10:48,560 --> 01:10:51,840 Speaker 1: will come back on your show anytime, preferably when there's 1120 01:10:51,880 --> 01:10:54,599 Speaker 1: a trailer that I want and we all know it'll 1121 01:10:54,680 --> 01:10:58,360 Speaker 1: it'll will arrange, it will arrange it. Just say what 1122 01:10:58,560 --> 01:11:01,920 Speaker 1: film and we'll make it in l A. And that's 1123 01:11:01,920 --> 01:11:04,240 Speaker 1: how we do stuff. I knew. I knew Living in 1124 01:11:04,400 --> 01:11:07,360 Speaker 1: l A gave you that power. So I'm glad you 1125 01:11:07,479 --> 01:11:10,120 Speaker 1: finally confirmed it for me. It's kind of like how 1126 01:11:10,160 --> 01:11:13,360 Speaker 1: people think it is exactly. I can just hold on 1127 01:11:13,360 --> 01:11:21,040 Speaker 1: one second. Hello operator Hollywood. Please, Wow, We're hero trailer 1128 01:11:21,160 --> 01:11:24,720 Speaker 1: three months from today. Okay, so that's done. Leonardo DiCaprio 1129 01:11:24,880 --> 01:11:28,640 Speaker 1: is actually in the booth right now. He's in madineering 1130 01:11:28,680 --> 01:11:36,120 Speaker 1: this podcast. He's like ghost podcasting. Yeah, our engineer. I 1131 01:11:36,160 --> 01:11:40,120 Speaker 1: should have known. Where can the good listeners find you? Both? 1132 01:11:41,160 --> 01:11:44,000 Speaker 1: You can find us every weekday on the podcast The 1133 01:11:44,080 --> 01:11:49,680 Speaker 1: Daily Zeitgeist, also through How Stuff Works Slash, the I 1134 01:11:49,880 --> 01:11:54,000 Speaker 1: Heart Radio podcast network, where we catch you up on 1135 01:11:54,160 --> 01:11:58,439 Speaker 1: things that are happening in the news cycle and kind 1136 01:11:58,439 --> 01:12:02,439 Speaker 1: of dig deep into America's shared consciousness. You can find 1137 01:12:02,479 --> 01:12:06,519 Speaker 1: me on Twitter at Jack Underscore O'Brien. I'm on Twitter 1138 01:12:06,560 --> 01:12:10,920 Speaker 1: and Instagram at Miles of Gray g R A Y yeah, 1139 01:12:10,920 --> 01:12:13,880 Speaker 1: it's a go. Go check them out, listeners, and thanks 1140 01:12:13,880 --> 01:12:17,320 Speaker 1: again to both of you for being on. Oh is 1141 01:12:17,360 --> 01:12:20,519 Speaker 1: our pleasure? Oh yeah, so fun? And if you would 1142 01:12:20,520 --> 01:12:22,680 Speaker 1: like to find us listeners, you can. Our email is 1143 01:12:22,800 --> 01:12:24,760 Speaker 1: mom Stuff at staff works dot com and you can 1144 01:12:24,760 --> 01:12:27,120 Speaker 1: find us on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast and on 1145 01:12:27,160 --> 01:12:29,879 Speaker 1: Instagram at stuff I Never told you. Thanks as always 1146 01:12:29,880 --> 01:12:32,639 Speaker 1: to our producer Andrew Howard, and thanks you for listening