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Speaker 1: Hey, Thearon, Welcome back. It's the Book of Joe Podcast,

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Speaker 1: Thanksgiving Edition. This is Tom Verducci with Joe Madden. Happy

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Speaker 1: Thanksgiving Joe.

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Speaker 2: And you too, sir. I'm down here in Tampa. I'm

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Speaker 2: gonna hang out with the Stewarts, my partner at the

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Speaker 2: Aawa restaurant, and we're gonna have a Thanksgiving at his

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Speaker 2: sister's house, I believe.

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Speaker 3: So it's gonna be a lot of.

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Speaker 1: Fun Thanksgiving memories, Joe. For me, it's always football and

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Speaker 1: not watching football. I'm talking about high school football, my

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Speaker 1: dad being a high school football coach. Man. That Thanksgiving

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Speaker 1: dinner dependent on how that Thanksgiving morning game turned out.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that was nineteen sixty nine, right seventy Hazelton versus

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Speaker 2: West Hazleton. I was a sophomore, and that's the first

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Speaker 2: time I got to play in it. You know, that

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Speaker 2: was a big deal back there. On an annual basis,

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Speaker 2: they would recreate the previous I do in to the

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Speaker 2: nineteen thirties, Hazelton says a little game in the standard

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Speaker 2: speaker and give a little synopsis of the game and.

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Speaker 3: Who started and whatever.

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Speaker 2: So I finally got to play in that game, kind

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Speaker 2: of like the underdog, if I remember correctly, really wet field,

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Speaker 2: which was typical that time of the year. But we

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Speaker 2: beat them, like I think twenty to six, hit my

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Speaker 2: buddy Jeffrey with the long one over the middle, ninety

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Speaker 2: pass right and eventually came on top and never lost

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Speaker 2: to them into three years.

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Speaker 3: I was there, so that place was jamming.

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Speaker 2: I'm talking like you know, ten eleven thousand people on

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Speaker 2: a Thanksgiving afternoon. I remember it being gray, like I said,

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Speaker 2: and wet, and there is nothing better than that. If

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Speaker 2: it's one of those things, if you get a kind

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Speaker 2: of a do over opportunity, what give me a moment,

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Speaker 2: just a moment to relive and then come back to

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Speaker 2: present tense.

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Speaker 3: I think I would take that one in a heartbeat.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm with you, great memories. We've got a week

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Speaker 1: where actually there's been a lot going on. We've had

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Speaker 1: free agent signings, we've had coaching changes as usual this

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Speaker 1: time of year. But I want to start out with

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Speaker 1: a development that you're going to see in spring training

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Speaker 1: next year, and that is the beginnings of robot umpires

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Speaker 1: in the big leagues. Now I'm saying robot because that's

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Speaker 1: the fallback word that's used but it's actually just using

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Speaker 1: technology to have a replay challenge system on balls and strikes.

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Speaker 1: This is going to be tried in spring training. It's

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Speaker 1: called the ABS Challenge System, the Automatic Ball Strike Challenge System,

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Speaker 1: and it's being used in the minor league. So it's

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Speaker 1: not like this is just wish casting here that maybe

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Speaker 1: this will work. They've tried it in the minor leagues

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Speaker 1: and it has worked really, really well. Here's how it works.

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Speaker 1: The batter, the catcher, and the pitcher. They get challenges

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Speaker 1: during the course of a game, three for each team,

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Speaker 1: so it's not coming from the dugout, only the players

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Speaker 1: on the field. Only in that dynamic between the mound

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Speaker 1: and home plate, a pitch is made, a call is made,

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Speaker 1: and then one of those three can actually issue a

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Speaker 1: challenge by tapping on their helmet. It's very similar to

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Speaker 1: in tennis. The hawkeye system. Is that serve in or

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Speaker 1: it's out. Well, let's go to the videotape, let's go

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Speaker 1: to the algorithms, and it shows whether that ball's in

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Speaker 1: or not. And now major league based well in spring training,

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Speaker 1: will have systems where they'll be able to determine whether

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Speaker 1: the umpire's call was correct. Or not. And if the

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Speaker 1: hitter or the one doing the challenge is correct, you

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Speaker 1: maintain your three challenges. If you're wrong, you lose that challenge.

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Speaker 1: This all happens, believe it or not, in much shorter

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Speaker 1: time that I just took to take and describe it.

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Speaker 1: It's about ten seconds and you will see on the

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Speaker 1: scoreboard whether that ball is in the zone or not.

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Speaker 1: So there's some fan engagement with this as well, Joe,

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Speaker 1: I want to get your opinion, obviously, but for me,

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Speaker 1: I like it. I'm not a fan of the full

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Speaker 1: on you know, have the robots call every single pitch.

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Speaker 1: I still like the human element, but here we're talking

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Speaker 1: about a system that the whole process happens very quickly.

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Speaker 1: I like the fact that there's a fan engagement element

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Speaker 1: to it. I like the fact that you're going to

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Speaker 1: be judicious about when you use these challenges. You know,

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Speaker 1: I don't want to see a game decided on a

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Speaker 1: blown call at first base, and we've corrected that just

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Speaker 1: the same way I don't want to see a bloone

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Speaker 1: call decided on a ball strike call basis loaded two

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Speaker 1: outs three to two pitch, it's way out of the

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Speaker 1: zone call to strike as a game changer, and now

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Speaker 1: at least in spring training will have the opportunity to

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Speaker 1: get those right. You will not see it in the

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty five season, even if I think it will.

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Speaker 1: I think it'll be a smashing success in spring training.

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Speaker 1: I really do. Not every ballpark will have it, but

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Speaker 1: every team will play with it. In other words, if

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Speaker 1: your park has not yet been wired for the system,

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Speaker 1: you will get it on your road games. So I

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Speaker 1: think the response is going to be really good. But

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Speaker 1: even if it's positive, they just don't have the infrastructure

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Speaker 1: in place, and they have to go through some loopholes

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Speaker 1: and hoops to get it through the new CBA with players,

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Speaker 1: So you're probably looking at twenty twenty six. That's my guest.

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Speaker 1: So twenty twenty five spring training challenge system on balls

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Speaker 1: and strikes twenty twenty six and going forward, baseball will

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Speaker 1: forever be changed where the final call of ball strike

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Speaker 1: by an umpire is not final anymore. Joe, give me

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Speaker 1: your take on this. You like it or you don't

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Speaker 1: like it.

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Speaker 2: Well, from every time we come up with a rule change,

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Speaker 2: the one criterion for me is whether it's strategic or

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Speaker 2: not in a sense that it changes the game. You know,

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Speaker 2: from the dugouts perspective, from a managerial perspective, from a

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Speaker 2: baseball perspective, is it strategic.

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Speaker 3: Or not strategic?

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Speaker 2: I think that's my if I have to reduce it

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Speaker 2: to where I get don't like things. It's compared to

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Speaker 2: being okay with things. For instance, the pitch clock non strategic.

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Speaker 2: It's just there to serve to speed up.

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Speaker 3: The game a bit.

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Speaker 2: The pitchcolm where the catcher gives the signal to the

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Speaker 2: pitchers and the middle infielders in the outfield, they're non

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Speaker 2: strategic in a sense, it's just expedites. I'm good and

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Speaker 2: I don't think this is strategic strategically in the sense

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Speaker 2: that you have to judiciously use your number of challenges.

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Speaker 2: In fact, that's the way it comes down. I agree.

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Speaker 3: I don't like the idea of this is.

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Speaker 2: Every pitch being called robotically, you know, semantics robotic or

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Speaker 2: are just using information data tech whatever.

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Speaker 3: So I guess I'm with you on this one.

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Speaker 2: I think as we continue to want to make changes

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Speaker 2: within the game, I think my main criterion, like I said,

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Speaker 2: would be is it does it impact strategy? Does does

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Speaker 2: it move the needle regarding you know how the game

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Speaker 2: is played, how people think about the game during the game,

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Speaker 2: are you taking edges away from those that might be

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Speaker 2: more creative, and how they're able to process the game

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Speaker 2: quickly or in advance of somebody else. I just watched

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Speaker 2: a great one hour dialogue with Billy Martin the other night.

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Speaker 2: I can't remember the It was a kind of obscure

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Speaker 2: network kind of a thing, but one hour conversation with

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Speaker 2: Billy Martin about managing and leadership from his perspective. It

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Speaker 2: was so refreshing to hear what he said and how

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Speaker 2: he had to say it. And it really reeks with

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Speaker 2: why people like humor are so popular in the game.

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Speaker 2: That you could disagree with lifestyles whatever, but we could

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Speaker 2: do that with everybody in today's world, right down to

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Speaker 2: the politicians and who's leading our world.

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Speaker 3: But the end of the.

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Speaker 2: Day, when it came to baseball and how baseball needs

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Speaker 2: to be played aid and thought about, and the edge

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Speaker 2: created Billy Ball Billy Ball. Billy was able to create

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Speaker 2: edges because he was more aggressive than everybody else. He

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Speaker 2: saw things quicker than everybody else saw things, and he

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Speaker 2: was willing to take chances because he was not afraid

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Speaker 2: to answer tough questions, so long answer too. Yes, I

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Speaker 2: agree with you. I'm good with this because to me,

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Speaker 2: I don't see it as being strategic. Whereas I see

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Speaker 2: run around second and the tenth inning being strategic, I

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Speaker 2: see the three batter minimum as being strategic.

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Speaker 3: So that's right. I diverge.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, by the way, Yeah, I covered Billy Martin managing

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Speaker 1: the Yankees brilliant baseball mind. And I understand what you're

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Speaker 1: talking about. Anything that takes away an edge you might

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Speaker 1: have because you have innovation or daring or just baseball

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Speaker 1: IQ an edge there. You don't want rules put in

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Speaker 1: place that take away those kind of edges. And Billy

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Speaker 1: Martin did in his best days, did have an edge

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Speaker 1: I believed over other managers. But the way he ran

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Speaker 1: a game, there's no question about that. I thought he's

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Speaker 1: brilliant tactician. I don't think he would be allowed if

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Speaker 1: you were around today, to manage the way he did

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Speaker 1: that Billy ball team. They got thrown out a lot

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Speaker 1: of the bases, and the front office today would go

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Speaker 1: crazy giving up outs on the basis the way Billy

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Speaker 1: Martin did. But you know what, they packed that place.

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Speaker 1: That place was a dead franchise in Oakland, and they

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Speaker 1: came out and watched that team not only because they won,

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Speaker 1: but because they were fun. Back to the robot, so

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Speaker 1: to speak, umpire and I really shouldn't use that because

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Speaker 1: it's an extreme version of what's happening here. Joe, You're

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Speaker 1: gonna have to if you're a manager, you're gonna have

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Speaker 1: to talk to your guys about, you know, being judicious

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Speaker 1: about it, because right now you see so many guys

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Speaker 1: on the close plays at first base. The first thing

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Speaker 1: they do is they tap both ears, like get on

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Speaker 1: the headset, haven't challenged this? And you do have a

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Speaker 1: little pause there. You have the ten to fifteen seconds

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Speaker 1: your replay guy can check the video and then he

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Speaker 1: can then say go ahead and challenge. So the instinct

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Speaker 1: of a player always, if you're a hitter, is that

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Speaker 1: ball is not a strike. If you're a pitcher, that

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Speaker 1: ball's strike. The instinct is to challenge right away and

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Speaker 1: get some count leverage in your beat. As a manager,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna have to watch that your guys don't instinctively

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Speaker 1: say challenge that pitch. You're gonna have to, especially early

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Speaker 1: in a game, you know, very judicious about not using

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Speaker 1: up your challenges. There's precious say timeouts and football.

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Speaker 2: Quick quick look into the dugout to validate, verify whether

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Speaker 2: or not the manager feels it's a good time to

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Speaker 2: do it or not.

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Speaker 1: I don't think there's going to be time for that really.

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Speaker 1: I mean maybe a very very quick one, but I

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Speaker 1: think the umpires are any instruction that it has to

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Speaker 1: be pretty quick then, I mean, I guess you could

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Speaker 1: call a time out and use one of your timeouts

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Speaker 1: as well, but that'll be interesting to see how that

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Speaker 1: plays out. It's designed to be quick. I mean, we

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Speaker 1: don't want this system to break down and slow the

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Speaker 1: game down. That's the last thing we want.

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Speaker 3: So nobody on base early in the game.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, forget it. I wouldn't do it.

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Speaker 3: Two outs, two outs.

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Speaker 2: I'm just saying this might be something that you actually

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Speaker 2: have a conversation with. And this is where analytics would

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Speaker 2: be somewhat helpful. If I wanted to see down with

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Speaker 2: my team, my hitters and have a conversation about the

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Speaker 2: appropriate times, the better times to utilize this, particularly a

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Speaker 2: new rule, I would go over some tenants with some basics, absolutes,

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Speaker 2: and some absolutely stay away from I think that might

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Speaker 2: start with that, I think that might be it. And

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Speaker 2: of course those that have been through it in the

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Speaker 2: minor leagues might have some ideas to give to the

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Speaker 2: guys that have not been through it yet. And where

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Speaker 2: we seem to judiciously use it to the point where

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Speaker 2: it was beneficial and other times, hey, we kind of

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Speaker 2: screwed up here. So it's going to be there's gonna

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Speaker 2: be a learning curve with it. You're gonna have to

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Speaker 2: figure out, like we're talking about exactly. I'm just curious, Like,

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Speaker 2: I know you're really quick, but a glance is quick too.

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Speaker 2: And again I think if there's a preconceived idea regarding

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Speaker 2: the game situation, inning, etcetera, etcetera, who's on base, outs

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Speaker 2: and all that kind of stuff may play a role

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Speaker 2: in this too.

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Speaker 1: So you're saying, give a quick look to the dugout

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Speaker 1: as a strategic element to it, right, because nobody has

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Speaker 1: access to a live feed of the pitch where they

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Speaker 1: can kind of coach you up or down on wright

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Speaker 1: challenge or not.

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Speaker 2: The manager saying it's appropriate, Yeah, I'm good with it

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Speaker 2: right the time, he's not bad. And even to the

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Speaker 2: point where I mean some teams have like the more

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Speaker 2: analytical dudes in the dugout, it might look at him,

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Speaker 2: you know, And I think that I think it could

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Speaker 2: be easily trained. The quick glance in now you go

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Speaker 2: through spring training, it's a conversation. We talked about it,

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Speaker 2: we talk about it, we talk about it. You can't

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Speaker 2: even have a drill about it, swear to god. I

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Speaker 2: mean you can just drill it part of your morning routine.

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Speaker 2: In spring training, we can have like the quick look

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Speaker 2: into the dugout just to affirm whether or not this

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Speaker 2: is a good time the challenge or not. And then

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Speaker 2: again it's gosh, I mean, you know, your hitters to that,

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Speaker 2: probably Wolf a little bit too often, and those those

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Speaker 2: were really discerning guys. Like if ben Zoebers wanted to

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Speaker 2: challenge a pitch, I'm in, I'm absolutely and I love him.

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Speaker 2: But if Wilson controlsted and maybe not so much so

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Speaker 2: it's a matter of your hitter also in trusting that guy.

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Speaker 2: His knowledge of his strike zone is really paramount. I mean,

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Speaker 2: while on Soto, I mean, you got how would you

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Speaker 2: not back him up?

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Speaker 3: You know? So I think there's a credibility that's gonna

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Speaker 3: be involved in this. Two.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I wonder if you see or anticipate any pushback

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Speaker 1: from players. Maybe it's tweaked somehow, maybe the number of

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Speaker 1: challenges has changed. I mean they did try two and

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Speaker 1: three challenges per team in the minor leagues. That's not

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Speaker 1: necessarily setting in stone. Bryce Harper told me he had

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Speaker 1: an idea that each player should have a challenge. But

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Speaker 1: if you're wrong, you're out. You're bat is over. So

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Speaker 1: then you really have to be careful. Do you see

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Speaker 1: any pushback from the players on this system.

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Speaker 3: I don't see why.

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Speaker 2: You know, pictures giving a because this is this is

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Speaker 2: when we turn a strike into a ball, right, it's

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Speaker 2: not turning a ball into it. So in other words,

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Speaker 2: did the picture get an opportunity to challenge a pitch too?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he can challenge the guy thinks, hey, that was

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Speaker 1: strike three. I'm gonna I want to challenge this. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's got that.

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Speaker 3: I didn't.

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Speaker 2: I didn't realize that. Okay, that's that's interesting. I thought

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Speaker 2: it was just a hitters thing. Yeah, if it works

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Speaker 2: both ways, it's going to be fascinating. I don't think

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Speaker 2: it should be as punitive as if you're wrong, you're

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Speaker 2: I don't I don't really get that number of challenges

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Speaker 2: really big. So again, it's the guys that are really

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Speaker 2: crying for the edges, that pitch off the edges and

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Speaker 2: live off the edges and really are not good self evaluators.

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Speaker 2: These these are the kind of things as a staff

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Speaker 2: I would have to discuss because I'm telling you, there's

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Speaker 2: there's guys on your team that are always asking for

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Speaker 2: more and it's not there both hitters and pitchers.

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Speaker 3: Catchers.

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Speaker 2: I always taught my catchers, man, don't and this is

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Speaker 2: part of the game though. The way catchers pull pitches

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Speaker 2: right now, pull, not frame, pull and get away with it. Gosh,

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Speaker 2: they probably have nothing to cry about because of the

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Speaker 2: way that works.

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Speaker 3: So I'm curious. I'd have to see it.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot of ambiguities with this, a lot to

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Speaker 2: discuss within your group. But I would go back to

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Speaker 2: my minor league people that have been involved in it

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Speaker 2: and really have them sit down with us and tell

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Speaker 2: us exactly what they've seen to this point.

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Speaker 1: Really interesting stuff. I think it's the fans are gonna

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Speaker 1: love it. You know. Again, it's like tennis. Following on

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Speaker 1: a scoreboard. You can see, you know, as the line

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Speaker 1: is either in the zone or out of the zone

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Speaker 1: as the ball comes in tracking that pitch. It's pretty

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Speaker 1: cool and like I said, it happens really quickly. I'm

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Speaker 1: looking forward to it, and I hope that's the end

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Speaker 1: of ball strike robotic umpires being used. They don't take

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Speaker 1: it any farther. We'll see I mentioned free agency, Joe,

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Speaker 1: there has been one signing. When we get back, I

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Speaker 1: want to talk about one team that has really been

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Speaker 1: aggressive in front of the pack here in signing players

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Speaker 1: and trading for players, and we'll talk about that team

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Speaker 1: right after this. Welcome back to the Book of Joe podcasts.

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Speaker 1: And it's the Los Angeles Angels that are stepping up, Joe.

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Speaker 1: They just signed, you say, Kakuchi, the left handed free

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Speaker 1: agent pitcher, three years, sixty three million dollars, which actually

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Speaker 1: doesn't sound like a whole lot for someone who, let's

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Speaker 1: face it, he's expected to give them innings. Last two

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Speaker 1: years Kakuchi has thrown has made at least thirty two

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Speaker 1: starts each of the past two years. There's only twelve

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Speaker 1: pitchers that have done that, Joe, and only two of

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Speaker 1: them besides Kakuchi, are left handed, and that's Patrick Corbin

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Speaker 1: and JP Sears. So the results maybe or not what

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Speaker 1: you look for, but this is a staff that has

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Speaker 1: had a lot of trouble getting innings from starting pitching

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Speaker 1: and quality innings. Kakuchi can do that. Now. It may

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Speaker 1: seem a little high, considering Michael Waka just signed for

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Speaker 1: three years and fifty one million dollars. This is above that,

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Speaker 1: but the Angels were a team that lost ninety nine

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Speaker 1: games last season. They need to step up and make

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Speaker 1: make moves. They're doing that. We will talk Joe about

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Speaker 1: where this fits into the big picture of the Angels,

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Speaker 1: but first of all, tell me what you think of Kakuchi,

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Speaker 1: thirty three years old left handed pitcher.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. I like the durability record a lot.

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Speaker 2: I mean, he's got really deceptive fastball, gets on hit

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Speaker 2: it very quickly, compact delivery from what I remember seeing,

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Speaker 2: I kind of like it.

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Speaker 3: I do.

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Speaker 2: I think when they signed with Tyler Anderson a couple

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Speaker 2: of years ago, really similar to that a veteran pitcher.

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Speaker 2: For him was coming off a tough year I think

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Speaker 2: at that time, but I had had some really good

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Speaker 2: success in the past and kind of deception and then again,

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Speaker 2: if you if you overlaid, I think Kakuchi's delivery over Anderson's.

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Speaker 2: There might be some deception qualities of that too. It

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Speaker 2: might fit kind of a blueprint that they have regarding

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Speaker 2: what they're looking for. But you're going to get to

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Speaker 2: the next point of I don't know if I'm jumping

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Speaker 2: ahead or not, but all the other players they've signed too,

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Speaker 2: is a lot of experience there. I think they feel

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Speaker 2: good about their core young group of players, and they

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Speaker 2: realize if they're going to be competitive at all, they

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Speaker 2: have to surround them with more veteran groups because they

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Speaker 2: they I don't even know what's in the pipeline there,

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Speaker 2: but they've had a lot of draft pick and they've

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Speaker 2: had a lot of young pictures coming up also, So

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Speaker 2: they might feel good about this group and they think

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Speaker 2: the quickest way back would be to do exactly what

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Speaker 2: they did, and also to be proactive. Why wait if

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Speaker 2: they have to wait, If they wait around for guys

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Speaker 2: to be out in the market for a period of time,

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Speaker 2: they may feel as though they have less of an advantage.

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Speaker 2: So they're gonna have to probably theoretically overpay early. And

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Speaker 2: for me, just like I said, just write down who

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Speaker 2: do I want, who do we like, Who's going to

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Speaker 2: make our team?

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Speaker 3: Better, and what are the hoes we have to plug in?

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Speaker 3: Go get him? Why do you have to wait?

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Speaker 2: So I don't understand why people wait so much, and

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Speaker 2: understand why people go around the carousel and don't proactively

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Speaker 2: go after the guys that they like and they want.

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Speaker 2: You should be able to recognize that and not settle

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Speaker 2: for what's left over.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that was always John Serholds with the Atlanta Braves.

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Speaker 1: He never wanted to be anybody's talking horse. He made

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Speaker 1: a list of what he wanted and he went out

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Speaker 1: there and tried to get it done very quickly. If not,

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Speaker 1: you move on. Yeah, I think what the Angels are

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Speaker 1: doing here and you know Ardy Moreno, the owner, he

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Speaker 1: does not want to have a rebuild ever going on.

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Speaker 1: They draw pretty well there, even though the attendance has

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Speaker 1: been down as this team has gone longer than anybody

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Speaker 1: without making the postseason. But he likes to put an

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Speaker 1: attractive team on the field and never wants to signal

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Speaker 1: to his fans that hey, we're gonna be good in

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Speaker 1: three or four years, not this year. So he's always

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Speaker 1: chasing hope. And I think as a fan you have

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Speaker 1: to give an owner that much credit. Now, as an

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Speaker 1: architect of a team. Then it's a risk, right because

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Speaker 1: you're never really retrenching to build yourself a legit contender

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Speaker 1: for years. And I think what the Angels are doing here,

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Speaker 1: they're trying to borrow from the Kansas City Royals model.

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Speaker 1: Last year, the Royals, coming off one hundred and six losses,

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Speaker 1: made an investment in a bunch of free agents, spent

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Speaker 1: more than one hundred million dollars, more than they ever

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Speaker 1: spent on a free agency, and they got Seth Lugo

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Speaker 1: and Michael Waka, both worked out really well, Hunter Renfro,

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Speaker 1: a couple other players in there, and they made the postseason. Now,

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Speaker 1: I don't think that you mentioned the young core the

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Speaker 1: Angels have. It's probably not what the Royals have, especially

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Speaker 1: because the Royals have Bobby Wit Junior, three or four

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Speaker 1: best players in the game. Now, Mike Trout could be

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Speaker 1: that player. But here's the issue with the corps. Now

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Speaker 1: the Angels have, Trout is gonna play next year. At

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Speaker 1: thirty three, Travis Darneault they signed. At thirty six. They

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Speaker 1: signed Kyle Hendrix for the rotation at thirty five, Kevin Newman,

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Speaker 1: basically a utility guy. At thirty one, Kakuchi's gonna play

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Speaker 1: next year. At thirty four. They traded for Jorges Hilaire

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Speaker 1: at thirty three. You mentioned Tyler Anderson at thirty five.

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Speaker 1: They still have Anthony Rendon at thirty five. That's seven

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Speaker 1: players aged thirty three and older for a team that

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Speaker 1: lost ninety nine games last year. And I understand, you know,

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Speaker 1: getting experience around your younger players is great, and I

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Speaker 1: understand depth was a huge issue and probably will continue

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Speaker 1: to be based on age and injury histories with some

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Speaker 1: of these players, so they're better positioned with death. I

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Speaker 1: just don't know how much better the Angels are then,

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Speaker 1: you know, coming off a ninety nine loss season with

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Speaker 1: so much invested into mid thirties players.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and they have to, like you said, there's going

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Speaker 2: to be an attrition component to that, and they have

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Speaker 2: to be ready to absorb, like you're talking about some

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Speaker 2: injuries with these guys.

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Speaker 3: So that's that's an absolute.

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Speaker 2: Having said all that, and you're, you know, talking about

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Speaker 2: the way to rebuild this group, and I was there.

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Speaker 2: The one part about the whole operation that I think

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Speaker 2: they need to pay more attention to do is the infrastructure,

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Speaker 2: the ballpark itself, the clubhouse, the weight room downstairs in

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Speaker 2: the major league facility, and also spring training facility. There

433
00:20:36,758 --> 00:20:39,478
Speaker 2: was grandiose plans to make that better a couple of

434
00:20:39,558 --> 00:20:41,358
Speaker 2: years ago. I don't think it's come to fruition for

435
00:20:42,078 --> 00:20:43,678
Speaker 2: right to the time I got there. I think the

436
00:20:43,718 --> 00:20:45,838
Speaker 2: first yeow I was there, they still had their weight

437
00:20:45,878 --> 00:20:49,038
Speaker 2: room was a tent in a parking lot outside of

438
00:20:48,718 --> 00:20:53,558
Speaker 2: the clubhouse by the Diablo Stadium there where, if you know,

439
00:20:53,638 --> 00:20:56,038
Speaker 2: guys are going out there six seven o'clock in the morning,

440
00:20:56,038 --> 00:20:57,958
Speaker 2: it's it's rather frigid in Arizona that.

441
00:20:57,838 --> 00:20:58,478
Speaker 3: Time of the year.

442
00:20:58,718 --> 00:21:01,078
Speaker 2: So to me, one of the big things the Angels

443
00:21:01,078 --> 00:21:03,358
Speaker 2: need to do is to spend more time on infrastructure too,

444
00:21:03,438 --> 00:21:06,798
Speaker 2: and building up more of a first class operation that's

445
00:21:06,838 --> 00:21:09,118
Speaker 2: going to attract the right kind of people and the

446
00:21:09,158 --> 00:21:11,198
Speaker 2: people that are there going to feel like a big

447
00:21:11,278 --> 00:21:13,718
Speaker 2: leaguer I mean, for lack of better term. So yeah,

448
00:21:13,758 --> 00:21:17,758
Speaker 2: there's not the component of rebuild when it comes to players,

449
00:21:18,078 --> 00:21:20,478
Speaker 2: but I like to see a rebuild when it comes

450
00:21:20,518 --> 00:21:24,078
Speaker 2: to the infrastructure and the facilities that are available to

451
00:21:24,118 --> 00:21:26,278
Speaker 2: the players now. The minor league facility that they use

452
00:21:26,598 --> 00:21:28,238
Speaker 2: for a long time, they're now I think they're in

453
00:21:28,238 --> 00:21:31,718
Speaker 2: the minor league facility, the spring training complex, which they

454
00:21:31,758 --> 00:21:33,718
Speaker 2: permitted the minor leaguers to use for a long period

455
00:21:33,718 --> 00:21:37,718
Speaker 2: of time while the major leaguers were really at a

456
00:21:37,758 --> 00:21:40,918
Speaker 2: disadvantage with the one field up on top and another

457
00:21:40,998 --> 00:21:43,758
Speaker 2: field down below. And like I said, clubhouse is really

458
00:21:43,758 --> 00:21:47,158
Speaker 2: inadequate compared to almost every other major league team. So

459
00:21:47,238 --> 00:21:50,198
Speaker 2: I think that's if there's a place to search for.

460
00:21:50,278 --> 00:21:52,998
Speaker 2: It's a non sexy situation. It's not what fans want

461
00:21:52,998 --> 00:21:54,438
Speaker 2: to see. Is when you spend a lot of money

462
00:21:54,438 --> 00:21:57,678
Speaker 2: and time building the infrastructure, the non sexier part of

463
00:21:57,718 --> 00:22:00,598
Speaker 2: what your operation looks like. So that to me would

464
00:22:00,598 --> 00:22:03,038
Speaker 2: be there'd behoove them to get involved in that a

465
00:22:03,078 --> 00:22:06,998
Speaker 2: lot more too. And I do defend putting some veteran

466
00:22:07,038 --> 00:22:10,438
Speaker 2: players around young players when you'd sign that many more

467
00:22:10,518 --> 00:22:13,398
Speaker 2: veteran thirty three flus thirty four to thirty five year olds.

468
00:22:13,878 --> 00:22:17,758
Speaker 2: I had Zobrist, I had David Ross simultaneous ad Miguel

469
00:22:17,878 --> 00:22:20,598
Speaker 2: Montero with the Cubs, so we had that. We also

470
00:22:20,678 --> 00:22:23,678
Speaker 2: had KB Chris Bryant, we had Addison Russell, we had

471
00:22:23,678 --> 00:22:27,478
Speaker 2: Hobby Bias. Take a twenty seven year old Rizzo at

472
00:22:27,478 --> 00:22:30,318
Speaker 2: twenty three twenty four year old Contreras. So we had

473
00:22:30,358 --> 00:22:33,278
Speaker 2: we had a nice blend. So it's it's it's there.

474
00:22:34,038 --> 00:22:37,198
Speaker 2: But again, you're right, I think they've made themselves a

475
00:22:37,238 --> 00:22:39,918
Speaker 2: little bit better, not to the point where they should

476
00:22:39,918 --> 00:22:44,438
Speaker 2: be necessarily playoff contenders, but really understand and spend more

477
00:22:44,478 --> 00:22:49,078
Speaker 2: time building up the angel brand within the group so

478
00:22:49,158 --> 00:22:52,118
Speaker 2: that it's more attractive to those coming in as well

479
00:22:52,158 --> 00:22:54,758
Speaker 2: as the kids that are there, to make them really

480
00:22:54,798 --> 00:22:56,758
Speaker 2: feel like they're being paid attention to.

481
00:22:57,078 --> 00:22:59,718
Speaker 1: Yeah, you make a good point about the infrastructure. It's

482
00:23:00,758 --> 00:23:03,118
Speaker 1: it's not a small thing to me, especially the spring

483
00:23:03,158 --> 00:23:05,518
Speaker 1: training atmosphere because, you know, Joe, a lot of the

484
00:23:05,558 --> 00:23:07,838
Speaker 1: fundamentals of a team, not just the way they play

485
00:23:07,838 --> 00:23:09,598
Speaker 1: the game, but the kind of the bonding of a

486
00:23:09,638 --> 00:23:12,358
Speaker 1: team happens in spring training. It's such an important time

487
00:23:12,398 --> 00:23:14,798
Speaker 1: of year. It seems like it's routine and repetitive, but

488
00:23:14,838 --> 00:23:17,838
Speaker 1: it's not. And listen, I go around all the different

489
00:23:17,838 --> 00:23:20,638
Speaker 1: spring training sites and I've seen the last few years

490
00:23:20,718 --> 00:23:23,838
Speaker 1: many teams like really really upgrading their facilities. I mean,

491
00:23:23,878 --> 00:23:26,878
Speaker 1: the Yankees redid their home clubhouse. You had the Brewers

492
00:23:26,878 --> 00:23:29,398
Speaker 1: a few years. I'm going back now six seven years

493
00:23:29,638 --> 00:23:32,638
Speaker 1: with their pitching lab that they put in the Dodgers

494
00:23:33,198 --> 00:23:35,638
Speaker 1: the Toronto Blue Jays just spent a ton of money

495
00:23:35,638 --> 00:23:39,078
Speaker 1: and the need to redo everything there. The facilities now

496
00:23:39,398 --> 00:23:43,398
Speaker 1: require state of the art infrastructure with the technology the

497
00:23:43,398 --> 00:23:46,358
Speaker 1: weight rooms, nutrition, and the Angels I know have talked

498
00:23:46,358 --> 00:23:48,558
Speaker 1: about it already, has talked about a new spring training

499
00:23:48,598 --> 00:23:51,278
Speaker 1: facility and what they have available for the players, but

500
00:23:51,398 --> 00:23:54,518
Speaker 1: just hasn't happened yet and they are behind the curve.

501
00:23:54,558 --> 00:23:57,078
Speaker 1: It's not a small thing. It doesn't make or you know,

502
00:23:57,118 --> 00:23:59,918
Speaker 1: it doesn't win you the World Series, but it does

503
00:23:59,958 --> 00:24:01,918
Speaker 1: give you an edge or in this case, maybe it

504
00:24:01,958 --> 00:24:04,798
Speaker 1: gives you a disadvantage the question.

505
00:24:05,478 --> 00:24:08,838
Speaker 2: You're right, you know, Look look at where the Rockies

506
00:24:08,878 --> 00:24:11,198
Speaker 2: and the Diamondbacks train in Arizona. Look with the Cubs

507
00:24:11,238 --> 00:24:15,518
Speaker 2: train in Arizona Sloane Park. I mean the Cubs weight

508
00:24:15,598 --> 00:24:18,518
Speaker 2: room facility, I would bet would be the envy of

509
00:24:18,558 --> 00:24:21,838
Speaker 2: any NFL team. It's that spectacular. And you walk out

510
00:24:21,838 --> 00:24:23,838
Speaker 2: of there. There's like big garage stores, and you walk

511
00:24:23,838 --> 00:24:25,918
Speaker 2: out these big garage stores and there's a portico there

512
00:24:25,958 --> 00:24:28,758
Speaker 2: with a running track covered, and then beyond that is

513
00:24:28,798 --> 00:24:32,918
Speaker 2: a feel to get loose on, and beyond that are

514
00:24:32,918 --> 00:24:35,158
Speaker 2: the batting tunnels and beyond that or there's where the

515
00:24:35,158 --> 00:24:39,358
Speaker 2: fields begin. All really easily accessible, easy to get your

516
00:24:39,438 --> 00:24:42,358
Speaker 2: work done, and just quite frankly, you feel pretty good

517
00:24:42,438 --> 00:24:44,158
Speaker 2: about getting your work done. You don't have to move

518
00:24:44,198 --> 00:24:48,758
Speaker 2: things around to exercise, run or whatever. So don't underestimate

519
00:24:49,358 --> 00:24:52,838
Speaker 2: what that does for a group and a player. When

520
00:24:52,838 --> 00:24:55,078
Speaker 2: we went to the World Series in two thousand and

521
00:24:55,518 --> 00:24:58,158
Speaker 2: eight with the Rays, I believe we were still at

522
00:24:58,798 --> 00:24:58,998
Speaker 2: or No.

523
00:24:59,118 --> 00:25:00,518
Speaker 3: Was that our first year at Port Charlotte.

524
00:25:00,518 --> 00:25:02,558
Speaker 2: I can't remember that, but if that was our last

525
00:25:02,678 --> 00:25:06,038
Speaker 2: year at al Lang, I think it might have been

526
00:25:06,078 --> 00:25:07,878
Speaker 2: the first year at Port Charlotte, but I don't remember

527
00:25:07,878 --> 00:25:10,878
Speaker 2: that specifically, but I do know there was a transition

528
00:25:10,958 --> 00:25:15,558
Speaker 2: from a laying and the Molly Fields to Port Charlotte.

529
00:25:16,438 --> 00:25:19,118
Speaker 2: Did the Rangers complex and man, it was what a

530
00:25:19,118 --> 00:25:21,278
Speaker 2: difference that makes us reporting the work every day, like

531
00:25:21,318 --> 00:25:23,598
Speaker 2: you said, getting your work done. So I know you

532
00:25:23,638 --> 00:25:25,478
Speaker 2: spend all that money on a Kakuchi and all these

533
00:25:25,478 --> 00:25:29,318
Speaker 2: other dudes. Nice rendon't I mean just take his contract

534
00:25:29,398 --> 00:25:34,478
Speaker 2: and have applied that to redoing clubhouses in both situations,

535
00:25:34,678 --> 00:25:36,078
Speaker 2: what a difference that would have made.

536
00:25:35,878 --> 00:25:40,598
Speaker 1: To switching gears now, Joe Baseball lost a pure hitter

537
00:25:41,038 --> 00:25:44,638
Speaker 1: in Ricocarti. He was eighty five years old. He passed

538
00:25:44,638 --> 00:25:49,598
Speaker 1: away over the weekend. Ricocarty was a career two ninety

539
00:25:49,678 --> 00:25:54,238
Speaker 1: nine hitter and had more than two thousand hits. I'm

540
00:25:54,278 --> 00:25:57,358
Speaker 1: not sure if you ever came across Rico Joe, but

541
00:25:57,598 --> 00:26:01,118
Speaker 1: if you watched him hit, there's an old saying that

542
00:26:01,158 --> 00:26:04,038
Speaker 1: because he would drop his hands below his waist, he

543
00:26:04,078 --> 00:26:07,438
Speaker 1: loaded the hit as some guys did back in the seventies.

544
00:26:07,878 --> 00:26:10,278
Speaker 1: They used to say that if you did that and

545
00:26:10,318 --> 00:26:12,758
Speaker 1: you didn't hit, it was called a hitch. If you

546
00:26:12,798 --> 00:26:14,078
Speaker 1: did hit and you did that, it was called a

547
00:26:14,158 --> 00:26:15,718
Speaker 1: timing mechanisms a trigger.

548
00:26:17,318 --> 00:26:17,758
Speaker 3: That's right.

549
00:26:18,198 --> 00:26:20,438
Speaker 1: You didn't get didn't get to know Rico Cardi. He

550
00:26:20,518 --> 00:26:21,398
Speaker 1: was quite a character.

551
00:26:21,558 --> 00:26:22,878
Speaker 3: I did not. I did not.

552
00:26:23,078 --> 00:26:26,198
Speaker 2: I just know hit line drives everywhere, man, And I

553
00:26:26,238 --> 00:26:28,438
Speaker 2: think I had a Rico Cardi bat one time as

554
00:26:28,478 --> 00:26:31,078
Speaker 2: an autograph on the top of it. But the guy

555
00:26:31,158 --> 00:26:32,318
Speaker 2: was just a human line drive.

556
00:26:32,638 --> 00:26:34,918
Speaker 1: That's a great way to describe him. You know. He

557
00:26:34,998 --> 00:26:37,398
Speaker 1: came to the United States for the first time for

558
00:26:37,438 --> 00:26:40,918
Speaker 1: the PanAm Games, and he's from the Dominican Republic. A

559
00:26:40,918 --> 00:26:43,198
Speaker 1: lot of that scouts saw him obviously fell in love

560
00:26:43,238 --> 00:26:45,278
Speaker 1: with the way he could hit, as you said, line drive.

561
00:26:45,318 --> 00:26:47,998
Speaker 1: After the line drive, he came home and he tells

562
00:26:47,998 --> 00:26:54,758
Speaker 1: his mom he signed with eight different teams. His explanation was,

563
00:26:54,998 --> 00:26:57,278
Speaker 1: if it doesn't work out with one of them, surely

564
00:26:57,278 --> 00:26:58,358
Speaker 1: it'll work out with another.

565
00:26:58,918 --> 00:27:01,598
Speaker 3: So awesome, man, I never knew that.

566
00:27:01,878 --> 00:27:05,598
Speaker 1: They sorted it out and he signed with the Wacky Braves.

567
00:27:06,478 --> 00:27:10,478
Speaker 1: How about his first year as a rookie, He hit

568
00:27:10,638 --> 00:27:15,478
Speaker 1: three thirty with a nine to forty two OPS. Now,

569
00:27:15,478 --> 00:27:17,598
Speaker 1: in the history of the National League, in the American League,

570
00:27:17,918 --> 00:27:21,758
Speaker 1: there have only been six players who finished with those

571
00:27:21,798 --> 00:27:25,438
Speaker 1: thresholds three thirty the nine forty two ops. Since integration,

572
00:27:25,958 --> 00:27:30,838
Speaker 1: there's only two, Ricocardy and Fred Lynn. In nineteen seventy five.

573
00:27:32,238 --> 00:27:36,438
Speaker 1: Nineteen seventy he hit three sixty six and won the

574
00:27:36,478 --> 00:27:40,158
Speaker 1: batting title three sixty six. That was the year he

575
00:27:40,198 --> 00:27:42,078
Speaker 1: was voted to the All Star Game. He wasn't even

576
00:27:42,118 --> 00:27:45,838
Speaker 1: on the ballot, and he was actually hitting about four

577
00:27:45,918 --> 00:27:49,478
Speaker 1: hundred through May, and he was having such a great

578
00:27:49,518 --> 00:27:51,838
Speaker 1: year the fans voted him in as a right end

579
00:27:51,918 --> 00:27:55,558
Speaker 1: candidate as a starting player with William Mays and Hank

580
00:27:55,558 --> 00:27:57,038
Speaker 1: Aaron in the National League outfield.

581
00:27:57,038 --> 00:27:59,598
Speaker 2: That is, you can't be more under the radar than

582
00:27:59,638 --> 00:28:02,998
Speaker 2: that with those kind of numbers, that kind of career.

583
00:28:03,678 --> 00:28:06,118
Speaker 2: And you bring up Prico Carty's name. This is the

584
00:28:06,118 --> 00:28:07,918
Speaker 2: first time I've heard it in how many years. I mean,

585
00:28:07,918 --> 00:28:10,878
Speaker 2: nobody ever talks about Rico Carti, but he was that

586
00:28:11,038 --> 00:28:13,558
Speaker 2: great at what he did. Of course, as a kid,

587
00:28:14,158 --> 00:28:17,158
Speaker 2: I totally appreciated him. Absolutely didn't love his name. I mean,

588
00:28:17,198 --> 00:28:20,318
Speaker 2: I did not love the name Ricco Carty. But how

589
00:28:20,318 --> 00:28:24,358
Speaker 2: about mom I signed with eight teams? I never heard

590
00:28:24,358 --> 00:28:25,158
Speaker 2: that story.

591
00:28:25,878 --> 00:28:26,878
Speaker 3: One. It makes sense.

592
00:28:26,918 --> 00:28:28,958
Speaker 2: If one doesn't work out, I could always fall back

593
00:28:28,958 --> 00:28:31,598
Speaker 2: to the Cardinals or the Yankees or whatever. That is

594
00:28:31,638 --> 00:28:35,158
Speaker 2: a beautiful thing you in order to really understand all this.

595
00:28:35,558 --> 00:28:37,878
Speaker 2: But those that have never been to the Dominican Republic,

596
00:28:38,518 --> 00:28:41,518
Speaker 2: you got to go there for ten minutes and you'll

597
00:28:41,558 --> 00:28:44,918
Speaker 2: understand exactly what's going on. A lot of these young

598
00:28:44,918 --> 00:28:48,238
Speaker 2: guys came from dirt floors. Their homes were dirt floors,

599
00:28:49,198 --> 00:28:52,998
Speaker 2: They had nothing, but they always among the happiest people

600
00:28:53,038 --> 00:28:56,838
Speaker 2: I've ever met, among the most friendly people I've ever met.

601
00:28:57,958 --> 00:29:01,078
Speaker 2: Always my Dominican players and I've always got along wonderfully,

602
00:29:01,758 --> 00:29:03,558
Speaker 2: and I love going to the island. Haven't been there

603
00:29:03,558 --> 00:29:06,758
Speaker 2: in a while, but it's spectacular. So that story made

604
00:29:06,758 --> 00:29:09,238
Speaker 2: me giggle so much because it's just it's so real.

605
00:29:09,478 --> 00:29:11,958
Speaker 2: Like I said, it's too bad that we haven't. I mean,

606
00:29:12,078 --> 00:29:13,758
Speaker 2: I'm going to look up all of his numbers after

607
00:29:13,798 --> 00:29:16,038
Speaker 2: we get done with this, because you talking about war.

608
00:29:16,118 --> 00:29:18,678
Speaker 3: Would I'd love to know what his actual war was.

609
00:29:19,118 --> 00:29:20,838
Speaker 2: I mean, if you do stuff like that, you got

610
00:29:20,878 --> 00:29:22,558
Speaker 2: to have a pretty good number after your name.

611
00:29:23,078 --> 00:29:26,198
Speaker 1: Yeah, the analytics people probably wouldn't like him. He was

612
00:29:26,198 --> 00:29:27,718
Speaker 1: not the guy to take a walk. He wanted to

613
00:29:27,718 --> 00:29:32,638
Speaker 1: swing the bat. He also, like Ricky Henderson, referred to

614
00:29:32,718 --> 00:29:35,958
Speaker 1: himself and the third person, but he called himself the

615
00:29:36,118 --> 00:29:39,358
Speaker 1: big man, as in after he pulled a leg musli

616
00:29:39,398 --> 00:29:42,078
Speaker 1: in spring training once and he told the writers the

617
00:29:42,198 --> 00:29:44,878
Speaker 1: big mon is not there yet, but he will be.

618
00:29:45,638 --> 00:29:49,398
Speaker 1: So it's interesting. He said, what has helped me most

619
00:29:49,518 --> 00:29:52,158
Speaker 1: in my baseball career is my desire and my faith

620
00:29:52,198 --> 00:29:55,758
Speaker 1: and myself. I'm independent and I'm a loner. I like

621
00:29:55,798 --> 00:29:58,958
Speaker 1: to be alone. I don't have many friends. There's an

622
00:29:58,958 --> 00:30:02,358
Speaker 1: old Spanish saying, tell me who you walk with, and

623
00:30:02,398 --> 00:30:05,318
Speaker 1: I will tell you who you are. And he kind

624
00:30:05,318 --> 00:30:07,638
Speaker 1: of bounced around from teams he played on. I think

625
00:30:07,638 --> 00:30:12,398
Speaker 1: it was six different teams, got traded a bunch, but

626
00:30:12,478 --> 00:30:15,238
Speaker 1: everywhere he went he hit. He had a great line

627
00:30:15,238 --> 00:30:17,518
Speaker 1: and he said, I don't care where they send me,

628
00:30:18,118 --> 00:30:20,878
Speaker 1: I'm gonna hit. They can send me to the moon,

629
00:30:21,198 --> 00:30:22,638
Speaker 1: I'll hit line drives.

630
00:30:23,438 --> 00:30:25,958
Speaker 2: I'm just after this. After we get done, I'm definitely

631
00:30:25,958 --> 00:30:30,798
Speaker 2: gonna look him up some more. I'm almost embarrassed to

632
00:30:30,998 --> 00:30:34,038
Speaker 2: myself about not knowing more about this fellow because he.

633
00:30:34,198 --> 00:30:34,798
Speaker 3: Was that good.

634
00:30:35,198 --> 00:30:37,798
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I remember I forget what year it was,

635
00:30:37,838 --> 00:30:40,798
Speaker 1: but as a kid seeing those all red uniforms that

636
00:30:40,878 --> 00:30:45,118
Speaker 1: Cleveland wore, Remember those red bottoms. Boog Powell was on

637
00:30:45,158 --> 00:30:47,598
Speaker 1: that team and he said, I look like a giant

638
00:30:47,638 --> 00:30:49,358
Speaker 1: blood clot.

639
00:30:50,478 --> 00:30:52,478
Speaker 3: It Does you missed that stuff? Oh my god.

640
00:30:52,558 --> 00:30:56,278
Speaker 1: So Rico Carti played on that team as well. Speaking

641
00:30:56,278 --> 00:31:00,118
Speaker 1: of his numbers, one last note on Rico Carti on

642
00:31:00,158 --> 00:31:03,078
Speaker 1: September one, nineteen seventy nine. Well, first of all, before

643
00:31:03,078 --> 00:31:06,638
Speaker 1: the seventy nine, see he signs he's thirty, like thirty seven,

644
00:31:06,718 --> 00:31:09,038
Speaker 1: thirty nine years old. No one's quite sure exactly how

645
00:31:09,038 --> 00:31:11,678
Speaker 1: old he is, but he's been around fifteen sixteen years.

646
00:31:12,078 --> 00:31:16,038
Speaker 1: He signed a lifetime contract with the Toronto Blue Jays

647
00:31:16,078 --> 00:31:18,678
Speaker 1: as a free agent. They wanted him to serve as

648
00:31:18,718 --> 00:31:22,438
Speaker 1: a scout, so they gave him a five year deal

649
00:31:22,558 --> 00:31:24,918
Speaker 1: at more than a million dollars two hundred thousand dollars

650
00:31:24,958 --> 00:31:28,238
Speaker 1: a year. So the nineteen seventy nine actually turned out

651
00:31:28,238 --> 00:31:29,918
Speaker 1: to be the last year of his career at his

652
00:31:29,958 --> 00:31:33,878
Speaker 1: quote unquote lifetime contract. Began the year hitting three h

653
00:31:34,038 --> 00:31:37,358
Speaker 1: three in his career. He gets to September one, nineteen

654
00:31:37,478 --> 00:31:41,078
Speaker 1: seventy nine, and he's a three hundred career hitter over

655
00:31:41,118 --> 00:31:44,518
Speaker 1: fifteen years. That day, he's hitting cleanup. He goes oh

656
00:31:44,598 --> 00:31:48,438
Speaker 1: for four against Rick Honeycut Seattle Mariners. By the way, Honeycut,

657
00:31:48,518 --> 00:31:51,198
Speaker 1: it was a three to two game. Pitched all ten

658
00:31:51,238 --> 00:31:52,198
Speaker 1: innings in that game.

659
00:31:52,478 --> 00:31:54,198
Speaker 3: There you go, there go.

660
00:31:54,398 --> 00:31:57,238
Speaker 1: He faced forty one batters. Rico Carti went over four

661
00:31:57,238 --> 00:32:00,798
Speaker 1: in his lifetime average slipped under three hundred, and he

662
00:32:00,918 --> 00:32:05,238
Speaker 1: finished at two ninety nine. He was a career three

663
00:32:05,318 --> 00:32:08,838
Speaker 1: hundred hitter for all but the last month of a

664
00:32:08,878 --> 00:32:12,358
Speaker 1: sixteen year career. Yeah, he'd saying something.

665
00:32:12,198 --> 00:32:13,878
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's a three hundred hitter. I mean two ninety

666
00:32:13,918 --> 00:32:16,078
Speaker 2: nine is kind of interesting too. It's a nice number.

667
00:32:16,438 --> 00:32:19,118
Speaker 2: I know it's three hundred is the magic number. But

668
00:32:19,478 --> 00:32:21,998
Speaker 2: when a guy does that over that many years of

669
00:32:22,038 --> 00:32:25,558
Speaker 2: playing baseball and that many at bass played appearances, et cetera,

670
00:32:26,198 --> 00:32:28,238
Speaker 2: that just screams how good of a hitter he was.

671
00:32:28,398 --> 00:32:31,158
Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought that up, Joe, because he's one

672
00:32:31,198 --> 00:32:34,758
Speaker 1: of only ten players who were tired with fifteen hundred

673
00:32:34,798 --> 00:32:38,478
Speaker 1: hits or more and at exactly a two ninety nine

674
00:32:38,838 --> 00:32:43,518
Speaker 1: batting average. So good, and here's the company that he keeps.

675
00:32:43,638 --> 00:32:47,158
Speaker 1: Go ahead, Kenny Lofton. Okay, Kenny Lofton is the most

676
00:32:47,278 --> 00:32:51,718
Speaker 1: hits of anybody who just fell short of three hundred,

677
00:32:52,078 --> 00:32:54,118
Speaker 1: twenty four hundred and twenty eight hits finished at two

678
00:32:54,198 --> 00:32:54,678
Speaker 1: ninety nine.

679
00:32:54,958 --> 00:32:55,198
Speaker 3: Wow.

680
00:32:55,678 --> 00:33:03,678
Speaker 1: Minni Minoso, Matt Holliday, Dante Bishitt, Dustin Pedroia Ricocardi all

681
00:33:03,718 --> 00:33:05,278
Speaker 1: two ninety nine hitters.

682
00:33:05,518 --> 00:33:08,638
Speaker 2: Those are some pretty good names. Dante. I worked with

683
00:33:08,718 --> 00:33:10,238
Speaker 2: Dante a lot when he was a kid. I didn't

684
00:33:10,238 --> 00:33:13,438
Speaker 2: even realize that there should be the two ninety nine club.

685
00:33:13,478 --> 00:33:17,158
Speaker 2: I think that'd be kind of an interesting group for

686
00:33:17,238 --> 00:33:20,718
Speaker 2: those that are still with us. Have an annual dinner somewhere,

687
00:33:20,838 --> 00:33:25,918
Speaker 2: because it is you are hard, not three hundred theoretically,

688
00:33:25,918 --> 00:33:29,998
Speaker 2: but you are I mean Dustin Pedroid Dante Dante in

689
00:33:30,238 --> 00:33:33,238
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty four was in our instructional league in Arizona.

690
00:33:33,278 --> 00:33:37,878
Speaker 2: Dante at that time was a catcher and an outfielder. Strong,

691
00:33:38,678 --> 00:33:41,438
Speaker 2: strong guy, actually ran really well, but had a gun

692
00:33:41,438 --> 00:33:44,158
Speaker 2: for an arm man. The guy could really throw. He

693
00:33:44,198 --> 00:33:46,118
Speaker 2: was a wild swinger. He was not definitely not an

694
00:33:46,158 --> 00:33:48,958
Speaker 2: analytical maven at that time. But I'll tell you what

695
00:33:49,038 --> 00:33:51,198
Speaker 2: this guy with Rick Down Rick Dawn was hitting coach

696
00:33:51,198 --> 00:33:53,238
Speaker 2: for us at that time. It's almost like his son.

697
00:33:53,798 --> 00:33:56,238
Speaker 2: He helped make so many adjustments, and you saw eventually

698
00:33:56,278 --> 00:33:59,918
Speaker 2: how Dante was very good with two strikes, to the

699
00:33:59,958 --> 00:34:01,958
Speaker 2: point we'd spread out and really just use his hands

700
00:34:02,038 --> 00:34:05,598
Speaker 2: and try to take the power out of his mind

701
00:34:05,958 --> 00:34:09,878
Speaker 2: and start using the entire field. Really a tough.

702
00:34:09,598 --> 00:34:10,598
Speaker 3: Out when it mattered.

703
00:34:11,038 --> 00:34:13,958
Speaker 2: And not only that, one most likable players I've ever

704
00:34:13,998 --> 00:34:17,038
Speaker 2: had in my life. I don't know Bo, but Dante

705
00:34:17,078 --> 00:34:19,078
Speaker 2: and I are still were still good buds. I see

706
00:34:19,118 --> 00:34:21,078
Speaker 2: him once in a while down here in Florida. I

707
00:34:21,118 --> 00:34:22,958
Speaker 2: didn't realize that. I'm happy to hear that. I mean,

708
00:34:22,998 --> 00:34:26,158
Speaker 2: he was that good. Dante was a very very good

709
00:34:26,198 --> 00:34:28,638
Speaker 2: baseball player and a great teammate.

710
00:34:28,878 --> 00:34:30,878
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean he's another guy go back and look

711
00:34:30,878 --> 00:34:34,118
Speaker 1: at his numbers, Joe, and he realized he's probably a

712
00:34:34,118 --> 00:34:38,358
Speaker 1: better player than you remember, just off the bat. Yeah.

713
00:34:38,518 --> 00:34:41,638
Speaker 1: One last note for you, speaking of Dante, how about

714
00:34:41,638 --> 00:34:44,918
Speaker 1: a career at batting average of two ninety nine with

715
00:34:45,118 --> 00:34:49,518
Speaker 1: more than two hundred home runs. Guys that retired at

716
00:34:49,678 --> 00:34:52,318
Speaker 1: exactly two ninety nine with more than two hundred home runs.

717
00:34:52,358 --> 00:34:56,718
Speaker 1: There's only three of them, Matt Holliday, Dante Bischett and

718
00:34:56,838 --> 00:34:59,438
Speaker 1: Rico CARDI wow, three birds of a feather.

719
00:34:59,278 --> 00:35:00,438
Speaker 3: Say quickly on that one too.

720
00:35:00,438 --> 00:35:02,878
Speaker 2: I mean the he got traded to the Brewers for

721
00:35:02,958 --> 00:35:06,038
Speaker 2: Dave Parker, correct in the late nineteen eighties. That was

722
00:35:06,078 --> 00:35:10,318
Speaker 2: a big deal because the early nineteen nineties it was

723
00:35:10,358 --> 00:35:12,078
Speaker 2: going to be between him and Timmy Salmon, if I

724
00:35:12,078 --> 00:35:15,918
Speaker 2: remember correctly. And there was a lot of conversation because

725
00:35:15,918 --> 00:35:17,198
Speaker 2: I had both of them, so I had to talk

726
00:35:17,278 --> 00:35:19,198
Speaker 2: to I remember who the gym was at the time,

727
00:35:19,838 --> 00:35:21,998
Speaker 2: you know, mister Dan O'Brien was there for a bit,

728
00:35:22,558 --> 00:35:25,358
Speaker 2: and then after him, I don't know, wasn't Billy, I

729
00:35:25,358 --> 00:35:28,198
Speaker 2: don't think, but Acy. But anyway, there was a he

730
00:35:28,318 --> 00:35:31,238
Speaker 2: came down to Dante or Timmy at that particular moment,

731
00:35:31,238 --> 00:35:35,078
Speaker 2: if I remember correctly, and we chose as a group

732
00:35:35,158 --> 00:35:38,238
Speaker 2: to say no, we'd rather keep Timmy over Dante. And

733
00:35:38,278 --> 00:35:40,398
Speaker 2: if you look at their numbers, i mean, really both

734
00:35:40,438 --> 00:35:43,518
Speaker 2: outstanding players. The Angels in that period between the nineteen

735
00:35:43,518 --> 00:35:45,358
Speaker 2: eighty four and nineteen ninety four period put a lot

736
00:35:45,358 --> 00:35:47,798
Speaker 2: of really good players in the big leagues. So that

737
00:35:47,558 --> 00:35:49,518
Speaker 2: was that was a kind of a really difficult decision.

738
00:35:49,758 --> 00:35:53,598
Speaker 1: Rigo Cardi all the best of his family, our condolences,

739
00:35:54,438 --> 00:35:57,598
Speaker 1: But yeah, I think what you suggested, Joe, everybody should

740
00:35:57,598 --> 00:36:00,158
Speaker 1: do is just kind of look up his stats, his numbers,

741
00:36:00,158 --> 00:36:02,598
Speaker 1: and realize this guy probably didn't get the attention he

742
00:36:02,678 --> 00:36:05,678
Speaker 1: deserved for a guy who just flat out hit for

743
00:36:05,718 --> 00:36:08,358
Speaker 1: a long time in the major leagues. And if you

744
00:36:08,358 --> 00:36:12,038
Speaker 1: see videos of it, I'm telling you, nobody swings the

745
00:36:12,078 --> 00:36:14,598
Speaker 1: bat like that in today's game. Just fun to watch

746
00:36:14,678 --> 00:36:18,398
Speaker 1: the style of Rico Cardi. We're gonna take a quick

747
00:36:18,438 --> 00:36:20,438
Speaker 1: break and we come back. What is going on? It

748
00:36:20,478 --> 00:36:23,758
Speaker 1: seems like every day you look up, some coaches getting fired,

749
00:36:23,838 --> 00:36:26,398
Speaker 1: somebody else is getting hired, somebody is changing teams. The

750
00:36:26,478 --> 00:36:29,998
Speaker 1: coaching carousel is in full swing. We'll dive into that

751
00:36:30,278 --> 00:36:44,758
Speaker 1: right after this. Well, Joe, I know it's a subject

752
00:36:44,798 --> 00:36:47,798
Speaker 1: near and deer your heart. The way coaches just they

753
00:36:47,878 --> 00:36:50,478
Speaker 1: just seem to keep changing. And I look at the

754
00:36:50,478 --> 00:36:52,838
Speaker 1: Seattle Mariners is a good example. And now they play

755
00:36:52,838 --> 00:36:55,758
Speaker 1: in a ballpark where it's tough to hit. I mean,

756
00:36:55,758 --> 00:36:58,438
Speaker 1: you look at all the numbers in terms of ballpark effects,

757
00:36:58,518 --> 00:37:00,678
Speaker 1: and Seattle is the worst place to hit in the

758
00:37:00,678 --> 00:37:03,598
Speaker 1: big leagues. You know, that's not an opinion, that's a

759
00:37:03,638 --> 00:37:06,798
Speaker 1: fact in terms of what the numbers show. And they're

760
00:37:06,838 --> 00:37:09,918
Speaker 1: now on their sixth hitting coach in the last five years.

761
00:37:10,158 --> 00:37:13,238
Speaker 1: They just hired Kevin Seitzer, who did a really good

762
00:37:13,318 --> 00:37:16,918
Speaker 1: job for years with Atlanta, and then Atlanta loses Akunya

763
00:37:17,078 --> 00:37:19,798
Speaker 1: for this season this year at twenty twenty four, and

764
00:37:19,878 --> 00:37:24,038
Speaker 1: Matt Olson goes back a step and he's gone. So

765
00:37:24,158 --> 00:37:27,998
Speaker 1: Kevin Sitzer takes over from basically Edgar Martinez. You finished

766
00:37:27,998 --> 00:37:30,638
Speaker 1: the end of the season after they got rid of

767
00:37:30,718 --> 00:37:33,518
Speaker 1: Jared de Heart, who had taken over last year from

768
00:37:33,558 --> 00:37:36,238
Speaker 1: Brent Brown, who was fired only two months into this season,

769
00:37:36,398 --> 00:37:38,598
Speaker 1: who took over from Jared Hart the year before, who

770
00:37:38,638 --> 00:37:41,358
Speaker 1: took over from Tim Laker. Well, you get the gist

771
00:37:41,358 --> 00:37:44,118
Speaker 1: of what's been going on here. I'm using the Mariners

772
00:37:44,158 --> 00:37:46,358
Speaker 1: as an example, Joe, But you know, this is kind

773
00:37:46,398 --> 00:37:48,758
Speaker 1: of the way the game is right now with these

774
00:37:48,838 --> 00:37:51,118
Speaker 1: hitting coaches, and many times it's the same hitting coach

775
00:37:51,158 --> 00:37:54,118
Speaker 1: going different places. What was your take as a manager

776
00:37:54,118 --> 00:37:57,078
Speaker 1: with your hitting coach and how you wanted, if you

777
00:37:57,118 --> 00:38:01,878
Speaker 1: did want consistency of thought and methodology support.

778
00:38:01,558 --> 00:38:03,598
Speaker 3: Him number one and number two.

779
00:38:03,638 --> 00:38:07,638
Speaker 2: I mean, with all these guys, there was a time

780
00:38:07,678 --> 00:38:10,598
Speaker 2: they were more again, like everybody else, was more autonomous

781
00:38:10,238 --> 00:38:13,678
Speaker 2: in his department. Nobody told Rock Crew what to teach

782
00:38:13,718 --> 00:38:16,158
Speaker 2: and how to teach it. As an example, Rick Down,

783
00:38:16,238 --> 00:38:18,958
Speaker 2: another guy, Benny Hines. These are the guys that I

784
00:38:19,078 --> 00:38:21,598
Speaker 2: learned from in the past. They were outstanding, and they

785
00:38:21,918 --> 00:38:23,678
Speaker 2: were the hitting coach. They were in charge of the

786
00:38:23,758 --> 00:38:27,198
Speaker 2: hitting department. There wasn't any interference. There's even to the

787
00:38:27,238 --> 00:38:29,158
Speaker 2: point at that time they were the only hitting coach,

788
00:38:29,678 --> 00:38:33,398
Speaker 2: and oftentimes everybody thought they should have at least one assistant,

789
00:38:33,718 --> 00:38:36,558
Speaker 2: because like a pitching coach had a bullpen coach to

790
00:38:36,638 --> 00:38:39,158
Speaker 2: help assist at what he was doing. But you know what,

791
00:38:39,238 --> 00:38:41,438
Speaker 2: I was good with that. I liked the the idea

792
00:38:41,478 --> 00:38:44,358
Speaker 2: of an assistant hitting coach, but he has to preach

793
00:38:44,398 --> 00:38:48,038
Speaker 2: the gospel of the hitting coach. So in today's world

794
00:38:48,438 --> 00:38:52,078
Speaker 2: it gets so watered down, confusing who actually is the

795
00:38:52,158 --> 00:38:54,398
Speaker 2: hitting coach with all everybody that's involved with it in

796
00:38:54,438 --> 00:38:58,998
Speaker 2: all the different information and whatever the edicts are that

797
00:38:59,078 --> 00:39:01,998
Speaker 2: the front office and analytical analytical people want to bring.

798
00:39:02,038 --> 00:39:04,318
Speaker 2: The bear becomes part of this because so then it

799
00:39:04,358 --> 00:39:07,358
Speaker 2: becomes skewed. So when you start just blaming one guy

800
00:39:07,598 --> 00:39:09,998
Speaker 2: for the lack of success of a player, I don't

801
00:39:10,038 --> 00:39:12,758
Speaker 2: agree with it. I think when you lack of success

802
00:39:12,758 --> 00:39:15,678
Speaker 2: of a player needs to be more relegated to the

803
00:39:15,678 --> 00:39:19,358
Speaker 2: fact that maybe the acquisitional process wasn't as good. Don't

804
00:39:19,398 --> 00:39:22,158
Speaker 2: be blaming hitting coaches and pitching coaches all the time.

805
00:39:22,598 --> 00:39:24,758
Speaker 2: And even when it comes to the players, sometimes they

806
00:39:24,758 --> 00:39:27,478
Speaker 2: will bitch and moan about the coach all of a sudden,

807
00:39:27,518 --> 00:39:29,918
Speaker 2: like you're not speaking my language. I don't understand if

808
00:39:29,918 --> 00:39:32,438
Speaker 2: he doesn't like me, all this crazy stuff. And you'll know,

809
00:39:32,558 --> 00:39:35,918
Speaker 2: as a front office operator or a manager when this

810
00:39:35,998 --> 00:39:38,318
Speaker 2: coach does not fit. All the years I did it,

811
00:39:38,358 --> 00:39:40,198
Speaker 2: I'm not going to name the name. All the years

812
00:39:40,198 --> 00:39:43,678
Speaker 2: I did it, there would have been one coach I

813
00:39:43,678 --> 00:39:46,638
Speaker 2: would have won a fire as a manager among my

814
00:39:46,718 --> 00:39:49,398
Speaker 2: different staffs that I've had only one out of how

815
00:39:49,398 --> 00:39:49,798
Speaker 2: many of.

816
00:39:49,798 --> 00:39:53,118
Speaker 3: Years I did that, so that to me is way overblown.

817
00:39:53,238 --> 00:39:56,318
Speaker 2: I think front offices should be more critical of their

818
00:39:56,358 --> 00:39:59,878
Speaker 2: acquisitional process and the information they're trying to feed in.

819
00:39:59,918 --> 00:40:00,838
Speaker 3: All this information.

820
00:40:01,478 --> 00:40:04,558
Speaker 2: Hitters are reactive in the game. They're not proactive in

821
00:40:04,598 --> 00:40:07,158
Speaker 2: The toughest thing to do is be a good hitter.

822
00:40:07,638 --> 00:40:11,638
Speaker 2: So when you want to constantly bring your ideas to

823
00:40:11,718 --> 00:40:15,278
Speaker 2: the table and infiltrate what a hitting coach has to say,

824
00:40:15,358 --> 00:40:17,438
Speaker 2: wants to do and how he wants to do, it

825
00:40:17,438 --> 00:40:18,438
Speaker 2: becomes problematic.

826
00:40:18,558 --> 00:40:19,398
Speaker 3: It just does.

827
00:40:19,518 --> 00:40:22,558
Speaker 2: I absolutely from you believe in that, and that's one

828
00:40:22,558 --> 00:40:25,038
Speaker 2: of those things that I would prefer an autonomous coach

829
00:40:25,078 --> 00:40:31,438
Speaker 2: there who gets information upon need from the whomever's supplying

830
00:40:31,478 --> 00:40:33,758
Speaker 2: the analytical stuff, which is really good and I want it.

831
00:40:34,238 --> 00:40:36,878
Speaker 2: But these guys cannot be involved in the teaching process

832
00:40:36,878 --> 00:40:40,638
Speaker 2: and should not be around the players themselves, So that's it.

833
00:40:41,038 --> 00:40:43,398
Speaker 2: I think they get too much blame, but things don't

834
00:40:43,398 --> 00:40:47,998
Speaker 2: go well, and I prefer the other method completely, especially

835
00:40:48,318 --> 00:40:51,158
Speaker 2: when it comes to hitters. Sean Figgots goes to Seattle

836
00:40:51,198 --> 00:40:55,358
Speaker 2: that ballpark was an absolute mausoleum for him, and it

837
00:40:55,558 --> 00:40:57,798
Speaker 2: just it just didn't work there, like you said, because

838
00:40:57,798 --> 00:41:00,318
Speaker 2: that is a tough park to hit in. I love

839
00:41:00,398 --> 00:41:03,598
Speaker 2: Kevin Sizer, and I think if anything, I really liked

840
00:41:03,678 --> 00:41:06,798
Speaker 2: him as the player. Maybe they recognize Saddle does that

841
00:41:06,878 --> 00:41:08,838
Speaker 2: they can't just swing for the fences all the time,

842
00:41:09,198 --> 00:41:11,198
Speaker 2: especially in that park. Sits is going to teach him

843
00:41:11,198 --> 00:41:13,038
Speaker 2: how to use the whole field, or he's going to

844
00:41:13,038 --> 00:41:16,238
Speaker 2: emphasize using the whole field. And if that's what you're

845
00:41:16,358 --> 00:41:18,558
Speaker 2: looking for, then you've hired the right guy. If you're

846
00:41:18,558 --> 00:41:21,318
Speaker 2: looking for a hitting coach to teach him at the

847
00:41:21,318 --> 00:41:23,598
Speaker 2: ball where the wall, Kevin's probably not the right guy.

848
00:41:23,958 --> 00:41:26,558
Speaker 3: Why does Kevin Long last as long as he has?

849
00:41:27,158 --> 00:41:28,918
Speaker 2: Kevin Long is kind of autonomous and what he does

850
00:41:29,118 --> 00:41:33,238
Speaker 2: he takes aid and help and he'll utilize information. Kevin

851
00:41:33,278 --> 00:41:35,318
Speaker 2: knows what he's doing and he knows what they're saying,

852
00:41:35,358 --> 00:41:37,838
Speaker 2: how to say it, and then the players totally respect

853
00:41:37,918 --> 00:41:41,198
Speaker 2: that one voice to them. So stop watering it down,

854
00:41:41,278 --> 00:41:45,678
Speaker 2: stop becoming convoluted. Let your coaches coach in this situation.

855
00:41:46,198 --> 00:41:49,358
Speaker 2: Hire somebody go through the interview process, ask them what

856
00:41:49,358 --> 00:41:52,238
Speaker 2: his philosophies are, ask him how he wants to utilize

857
00:41:52,278 --> 00:41:55,358
Speaker 2: that information and then get out of his way. To me,

858
00:41:55,478 --> 00:41:58,118
Speaker 2: that'd be the best way for these teams to grow offensively.

859
00:41:58,478 --> 00:42:00,478
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's well said, Joe, And I think

860
00:42:00,478 --> 00:42:02,758
Speaker 1: we have to start out with the fact that since

861
00:42:02,798 --> 00:42:06,558
Speaker 1: the mound was lowered and eighteen sixty nine, it's never

862
00:42:06,678 --> 00:42:09,238
Speaker 1: been harder to get a hit in the Major League.

863
00:42:09,278 --> 00:42:13,078
Speaker 1: The batting average was two forty three. That tied twenty

864
00:42:13,118 --> 00:42:15,278
Speaker 1: twenty two for the lowest since the mound was lowered

865
00:42:15,278 --> 00:42:17,118
Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty nine. So we have to start with

866
00:42:17,158 --> 00:42:20,078
Speaker 1: that premise. As you said, hitting is really really difficult,

867
00:42:20,118 --> 00:42:23,558
Speaker 1: and I do like situations where there's a good balance

868
00:42:23,598 --> 00:42:26,758
Speaker 1: because you know the job Joe's it's it's become so

869
00:42:26,958 --> 00:42:29,558
Speaker 1: big it's it's and for years this has been true.

870
00:42:29,678 --> 00:42:31,798
Speaker 1: It takes more than one guy to do it. There's

871
00:42:31,798 --> 00:42:33,958
Speaker 1: a lot of teams now that have three or they

872
00:42:33,998 --> 00:42:39,438
Speaker 1: have a run production coordinator essentially overseeing the hitting coaches.

873
00:42:39,958 --> 00:42:42,078
Speaker 1: It does take a lot of people. These guys hit

874
00:42:42,158 --> 00:42:45,038
Speaker 1: all the time. There's so much work that's being done

875
00:42:45,278 --> 00:42:49,878
Speaker 1: before games in cages technology. But I like a blend.

876
00:42:50,118 --> 00:42:54,358
Speaker 1: I generally like a hitting coach who has professional playing experience,

877
00:42:54,838 --> 00:42:58,158
Speaker 1: and maybe somebody who's more into the analytical technical side

878
00:42:58,158 --> 00:43:00,478
Speaker 1: of it. And as a player, you can gravitate a

879
00:43:00,478 --> 00:43:03,158
Speaker 1: little more towards one or the other, depending on how

880
00:43:03,198 --> 00:43:06,598
Speaker 1: you learn what floats your boat. I don't like going

881
00:43:06,638 --> 00:43:08,998
Speaker 1: all in in one area, but I do like having

882
00:43:09,158 --> 00:43:12,198
Speaker 1: somebody on the staff a hitting coach who has been

883
00:43:12,238 --> 00:43:14,598
Speaker 1: in that batter's box. And I'm saying that's not the

884
00:43:14,638 --> 00:43:17,038
Speaker 1: only way, but I like the blend of sort of

885
00:43:17,118 --> 00:43:18,278
Speaker 1: old school and new school.

886
00:43:18,718 --> 00:43:21,158
Speaker 2: You bought something up there to me that I'm really

887
00:43:21,158 --> 00:43:23,358
Speaker 2: opposed to. They swing too much, they're in the cage

888
00:43:23,398 --> 00:43:25,758
Speaker 2: way too early. They don't need all that. I'm just

889
00:43:25,758 --> 00:43:27,518
Speaker 2: telling you, they don't need all that. And you can

890
00:43:27,598 --> 00:43:29,878
Speaker 2: make the argument, right, it's even tougher. And I get

891
00:43:29,878 --> 00:43:32,838
Speaker 2: that just based probably on velocity as much as anything,

892
00:43:33,278 --> 00:43:35,438
Speaker 2: and the fact that the hitters see so many different

893
00:43:35,518 --> 00:43:37,158
Speaker 2: arms during the course of the game because of the

894
00:43:37,198 --> 00:43:37,958
Speaker 2: bullpen stuff.

895
00:43:37,958 --> 00:43:38,478
Speaker 3: I get that.

896
00:43:38,678 --> 00:43:41,718
Speaker 2: However, there's got to be a point of diminishing returns

897
00:43:41,718 --> 00:43:43,838
Speaker 2: when you just swing, swing, swing.

898
00:43:43,598 --> 00:43:44,358
Speaker 3: All day long.

899
00:43:44,798 --> 00:43:46,678
Speaker 2: I mean, these guys get to the cage two two

900
00:43:46,718 --> 00:43:49,718
Speaker 2: thirty in the afternoon, early work, and there is a

901
00:43:49,718 --> 00:43:53,678
Speaker 2: point of diminishing returns. I believe in work absolutely, and

902
00:43:53,758 --> 00:43:56,118
Speaker 2: if you can't believe in that, what can you possibly

903
00:43:56,118 --> 00:43:59,158
Speaker 2: believe in regards to making yourself better at anything but

904
00:43:59,478 --> 00:44:00,198
Speaker 2: work smart?

905
00:44:00,318 --> 00:44:03,278
Speaker 3: Just work, work quality, not quantity.

906
00:44:04,238 --> 00:44:06,398
Speaker 2: This is one of the biggest problems in regards to

907
00:44:06,638 --> 00:44:10,038
Speaker 2: hitting or hitters is that they swing absolutely too much.

908
00:44:10,478 --> 00:44:13,558
Speaker 2: And with that, like you're talking about the proliferation of arms.

909
00:44:13,558 --> 00:44:16,078
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, during the course of a game,

910
00:44:17,078 --> 00:44:18,998
Speaker 2: you have to have coaches available just to throw in

911
00:44:19,038 --> 00:44:22,598
Speaker 2: cages now after they've thrown their time on the field.

912
00:44:22,798 --> 00:44:24,918
Speaker 3: I think it's overkill. I think it's too much.

913
00:44:25,158 --> 00:44:26,878
Speaker 2: If you have this situation where you want hitters the

914
00:44:26,918 --> 00:44:30,398
Speaker 2: swing more, pictures to throw less. Come on, what's going

915
00:44:30,438 --> 00:44:33,038
Speaker 2: on here? Pitchers should actually throw more and hitters should

916
00:44:33,038 --> 00:44:33,798
Speaker 2: actually swing less.

917
00:44:33,838 --> 00:44:34,638
Speaker 3: I think so.

918
00:44:35,238 --> 00:44:37,758
Speaker 2: As part of the problem, there is too much. You

919
00:44:37,798 --> 00:44:40,478
Speaker 2: can only carry one thought with you at the most,

920
00:44:40,758 --> 00:44:43,478
Speaker 2: at the most when you step into the battest box,

921
00:44:43,478 --> 00:44:45,918
Speaker 2: and even you're better off carrying none. It's just like

922
00:44:45,998 --> 00:44:47,838
Speaker 2: a feel kind of a thing or something that just

923
00:44:47,918 --> 00:44:50,838
Speaker 2: gets you locked in to the release point whatever it

924
00:44:50,878 --> 00:44:51,638
Speaker 2: is that you need to do.

925
00:44:51,798 --> 00:44:53,758
Speaker 3: See, you don't need all these thoughts.

926
00:44:53,918 --> 00:44:55,518
Speaker 2: The more swing thoughts you have, I don't care what

927
00:44:55,558 --> 00:44:58,278
Speaker 2: the game is, the more swing, the throw thoughts you

928
00:44:58,278 --> 00:45:00,558
Speaker 2: have as a quarterback, the more shooting thoughts you have

929
00:45:00,838 --> 00:45:04,598
Speaker 2: as a basketball player, whatever doesn't help. My thing was

930
00:45:04,678 --> 00:45:08,798
Speaker 2: I was okay with overloading hitters as I was hitting

931
00:45:08,798 --> 00:45:12,918
Speaker 2: coach in a practice situation like hours. I'm talking about

932
00:45:12,958 --> 00:45:17,198
Speaker 2: spring training, I'm talking about instructionally. Yes, you want to

933
00:45:17,238 --> 00:45:20,558
Speaker 2: infiltrate as much as you can, but I would always insist, please,

934
00:45:21,038 --> 00:45:22,918
Speaker 2: when we get into the game, I want you to

935
00:45:22,958 --> 00:45:24,798
Speaker 2: reduce it to one thought or just go up there,

936
00:45:25,278 --> 00:45:26,118
Speaker 2: hit and react.

937
00:45:26,598 --> 00:45:27,758
Speaker 3: Easier said than done.

938
00:45:27,798 --> 00:45:31,158
Speaker 2: Absolutely, these are the kind of thoughts that I think

939
00:45:31,238 --> 00:45:34,158
Speaker 2: are pertinent, that I think make a difference, and I

940
00:45:34,198 --> 00:45:37,038
Speaker 2: don't know to what extent they're being utilized because there's

941
00:45:37,278 --> 00:45:40,438
Speaker 2: too many, too many chefs in these kitchens, man, way

942
00:45:40,478 --> 00:45:43,758
Speaker 2: too many. And that's where I think the problem begins,

943
00:45:43,838 --> 00:45:48,518
Speaker 2: the fact that swing too often, too many thoughts, reduce, reduce, reduce,

944
00:45:48,598 --> 00:45:52,438
Speaker 2: do simple better, simplify, Especially in this component of the game.

945
00:45:52,558 --> 00:45:53,278
Speaker 3: It's that hard.

946
00:45:53,598 --> 00:45:57,278
Speaker 1: Well, Joe, you always end our episodes with words of wisdom,

947
00:45:57,278 --> 00:45:59,958
Speaker 1: but before we get there, since this is Thanksgiving week,

948
00:46:00,118 --> 00:46:02,438
Speaker 1: I want to get your take on your go to

949
00:46:02,798 --> 00:46:05,758
Speaker 1: favorite thanks Giving side dish.

950
00:46:06,118 --> 00:46:10,718
Speaker 3: Oh oh wow, that I think is is wow. That's

951
00:46:10,798 --> 00:46:11,398
Speaker 3: tough and easy.

952
00:46:11,438 --> 00:46:14,598
Speaker 2: At the same time, you know, the sweet potato castroll

953
00:46:14,638 --> 00:46:16,638
Speaker 2: is really making a strong push these days.

954
00:46:16,998 --> 00:46:18,598
Speaker 3: Even if you go to Ruth's Chris.

955
00:46:18,358 --> 00:46:22,118
Speaker 2: Man, that thing that they do there is good for appetizer,

956
00:46:22,438 --> 00:46:23,798
Speaker 2: main course, and dessert.

957
00:46:23,958 --> 00:46:26,598
Speaker 1: I gotta tell you, Joe, I've never been a casserole fan.

958
00:46:26,678 --> 00:46:29,038
Speaker 1: To me, casserole is a fancy word for slop.

959
00:46:29,278 --> 00:46:31,478
Speaker 3: Have you ever had a Ruth's Chris and I have not?

960
00:46:31,758 --> 00:46:34,438
Speaker 2: So Okay, Well then it's okay. After you've had that,

961
00:46:34,438 --> 00:46:35,638
Speaker 2: then I want to hear what you have to say.

962
00:46:35,718 --> 00:46:39,278
Speaker 2: All right, stuffing, stuffing with gravy.

963
00:46:39,358 --> 00:46:41,758
Speaker 3: I mean, that's it. My mom Beanie did a great

964
00:46:41,838 --> 00:46:44,998
Speaker 3: job with that. I'm not a turkey guy. I prefer

965
00:46:45,118 --> 00:46:47,958
Speaker 3: Mexican food on Thanksgiving. I don't like turkey.

966
00:46:48,038 --> 00:46:50,998
Speaker 1: That's hard to go on American. How could turkey?

967
00:46:50,958 --> 00:46:54,078
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can see. I don't like turkey. It's it's

968
00:46:54,118 --> 00:46:56,638
Speaker 2: just it's a weird meat. It's hard to cook properly,

969
00:46:57,158 --> 00:46:59,878
Speaker 2: it's hard to keep warm all that good stuff. So

970
00:46:59,918 --> 00:47:04,558
Speaker 2: I've concluded to just do tacos and Tamali's on Thanksgiving Christmas.

971
00:47:04,598 --> 00:47:06,718
Speaker 1: Oh, you got to come to my house for Thanksgiving,

972
00:47:06,718 --> 00:47:10,438
Speaker 1: my wife's turkey and gravy. Then you'll be sold. Okay

973
00:47:10,678 --> 00:47:13,878
Speaker 1: for me, I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go. Cranberry sauce

974
00:47:14,318 --> 00:47:16,998
Speaker 1: it like you never have it like any other time

975
00:47:17,038 --> 00:47:19,518
Speaker 1: of year. It's like it's good enough to be a

976
00:47:19,518 --> 00:47:22,238
Speaker 1: twelve month a year side dish, but it's relegated to

977
00:47:22,278 --> 00:47:23,358
Speaker 1: Thanksgiving pretty much.

978
00:47:23,438 --> 00:47:24,158
Speaker 3: It's been labeled.

979
00:47:24,238 --> 00:47:27,478
Speaker 1: Cranberry to me, is underrated. I'll take you know, Cranberry

980
00:47:27,558 --> 00:47:30,038
Speaker 1: my salad. Maybe not the sauce, but you know, I'm

981
00:47:30,038 --> 00:47:34,278
Speaker 1: talking about Cranberry's underrated. I think it steps up on

982
00:47:34,318 --> 00:47:37,918
Speaker 1: Thanksgiving Day and somehow it doesn't retain its status as

983
00:47:37,958 --> 00:47:39,078
Speaker 1: a go to side dish.

984
00:47:39,198 --> 00:47:41,238
Speaker 3: I think you're right it it's been labeled.

985
00:47:41,878 --> 00:47:44,518
Speaker 2: It's been labeled as a Thanksgiving side dish, and it's

986
00:47:44,518 --> 00:47:46,638
Speaker 2: a hard time breaking labels once they've been attached.

987
00:47:46,638 --> 00:47:50,318
Speaker 1: Brother, that sounds like good. It's a wisdom to end

988
00:47:50,358 --> 00:47:52,798
Speaker 1: this program, man, But I know you're loaded with something

989
00:47:52,838 --> 00:47:54,838
Speaker 1: else to take us out. What do you got today, Joe?

990
00:47:55,198 --> 00:47:56,398
Speaker 3: Yeah? Thanksgiving?

991
00:47:56,398 --> 00:47:59,838
Speaker 2: Brother, I mean you're all over it as always, I

992
00:47:59,878 --> 00:48:02,638
Speaker 2: got I got two I gotta go with. I just

993
00:48:02,638 --> 00:48:05,998
Speaker 2: couldn't reduce we do. I couldn't simplify here because one

994
00:48:06,038 --> 00:48:07,958
Speaker 2: of them is my favorite, Wayne Die.

995
00:48:07,998 --> 00:48:08,998
Speaker 3: I'll start with Wayne.

996
00:48:09,518 --> 00:48:13,078
Speaker 2: Give yourself a gift of five minutes of contemplation and

997
00:48:13,238 --> 00:48:16,598
Speaker 2: awe of everything you see around you. Go outside and

998
00:48:16,638 --> 00:48:19,838
Speaker 2: turn your attention to the mini miracles around you. This

999
00:48:20,038 --> 00:48:24,478
Speaker 2: five minutes a day regimen of appreciation and gratitude will

1000
00:48:24,518 --> 00:48:28,638
Speaker 2: help you to focus your life in awe, which leads

1001
00:48:28,678 --> 00:48:32,958
Speaker 2: to Lionel Hampton. Gratitude is when memory is stored in

1002
00:48:32,998 --> 00:48:35,158
Speaker 2: the heart and not in the mind. We want to

1003
00:48:35,158 --> 00:48:37,958
Speaker 2: be so practical in numerical and data driven and thinking

1004
00:48:38,398 --> 00:48:39,518
Speaker 2: it has to make sense.

1005
00:48:40,558 --> 00:48:43,318
Speaker 3: It doesn't. It could just be felt sometimes.

1006
00:48:43,878 --> 00:48:47,798
Speaker 2: And that's the difference for me as a person, whether

1007
00:48:47,838 --> 00:48:50,278
Speaker 2: we're doing this or in baseball or whatever. I do

1008
00:48:50,998 --> 00:48:54,958
Speaker 2: feel is so important to me. If I can't feel it,

1009
00:48:55,038 --> 00:48:58,518
Speaker 2: I don't know something. I just don't. Once you have

1010
00:48:58,638 --> 00:49:02,238
Speaker 2: felt something, then you have an opportunity to really understand

1011
00:49:02,278 --> 00:49:03,798
Speaker 2: and know what the heck this is that you're trying

1012
00:49:03,798 --> 00:49:06,678
Speaker 2: to learn. So gratitude is when memory is stored in

1013
00:49:06,718 --> 00:49:09,238
Speaker 2: the heart and not in the mind and mister Wayne

1014
00:49:09,278 --> 00:49:10,758
Speaker 2: Dyer never disappoints.

1015
00:49:10,998 --> 00:49:11,958
Speaker 3: Happy Thanksgiving.

1016
00:49:12,198 --> 00:49:15,198
Speaker 1: Yeah, listen, I'm with you. I think that word gratitude

1017
00:49:15,318 --> 00:49:19,998
Speaker 1: is so special, and obviously it's foremost this week Thanksgiving Week,

1018
00:49:20,078 --> 00:49:23,078
Speaker 1: Thanksgiving Day. But I love the idea of taking time

1019
00:49:23,518 --> 00:49:26,798
Speaker 1: every day, even if it's not five minutes, even if

1020
00:49:26,798 --> 00:49:29,158
Speaker 1: it's just a brief period in your day, you just

1021
00:49:29,198 --> 00:49:31,798
Speaker 1: give thanks to everything that's around you. We do a

1022
00:49:31,878 --> 00:49:34,118
Speaker 1: great job of that on Thanksgiving Day, but why not

1023
00:49:34,598 --> 00:49:38,078
Speaker 1: have every day be Thanksgiving when it comes to gratitude. Amen,

1024
00:49:38,558 --> 00:49:40,518
Speaker 1: great job, Joe. We'll see you next time on the

1025
00:49:40,558 --> 00:49:42,878
Speaker 1: Book of Joe. Happy Thanksgiving, you two buddy.

1026
00:49:42,878 --> 00:49:48,878
Speaker 3: Thanks