Speaker 1: Hi, everybody, This is Chelsea Today. We are dropping into
Speaker 1: an episode from another podcast that I was a guest on,
Speaker 1: which is called We Can Do Hard Things, which is
Speaker 1: Glenn and Doyle's podcast, and we thought it was such
Speaker 1: a good thing for us to share with our audience
Speaker 1: here at Dear Chelsea. So here it is welcome to
Speaker 1: We Can Do Hard Things. Today we have our dear
Speaker 1: friend Chelsea Handler, who a few days ago announced her
Speaker 1: breakup from Joe Koi and who is here today to
Speaker 1: talk about that breakup publicly for the first time. This
Speaker 1: conversation with her is well, it just changed my heart.
Speaker 1: It's a lesson in how to love and how to
Speaker 1: let go and how not to abandon yourself. Chelsea Handler,
Speaker 1: let me start your podcast for you today, busy. What's up? Hi? Um,
Speaker 1: I love you, I love you on the podcast Amanda. Um,
Speaker 1: I just wanted to say you guys. Uh, you know
Speaker 1: I we have been trying to schedule this for months
Speaker 1: for me to come on, and I was going to
Speaker 1: come on with my my boyfriend who's now my ex boyfriend,
Speaker 1: Joe Coy and uh, I was scheduled and because Glennon
Speaker 1: and I have a very beautiful honest history together. Uh.
Speaker 1: When we were scheduled, we were having some issues and
Speaker 1: I texted her and said, I don't think this is
Speaker 1: a good time for us to come on and be
Speaker 1: representing relationships or couples or anything. You know, We're gonna
Speaker 1: head to some therapy and try and sort this out.
Speaker 1: And and now here I am alone. Uh, And I
Speaker 1: just publicly announced that Joe Coy and I are, you know,
Speaker 1: going our separate ways, and I can't couldn't be happier
Speaker 1: to be spending this morning with all three of you.
Speaker 1: I feel the exact same way I wish I was
Speaker 1: actually just on your couch right now, but this will
Speaker 1: do my lab. I wish you were on my lab
Speaker 1: right now. Same just just holding me like a baby,
Speaker 1: That's what I wish. That's what I wish, a reverse babyhold.
Speaker 1: That's how I feel right now. I mean, I just
Speaker 1: I love you so big and have for so long,
Speaker 1: and I just, um, I'm grateful to be with you
Speaker 1: this morning. I can't believe that it worked this way,
Speaker 1: but it's the universe working all of us together at
Speaker 1: the same time. So yes, yes, here I am, and uh, yeah,
Speaker 1: here we all are. How are you right? Now in
Speaker 1: this moment, I'm I'm okay. I mean, I feel, you know,
Speaker 1: optimistic about the future. Now. I've changed so much and
Speaker 1: I've loved my love was like so big that it
Speaker 1: just blew me open. And as painful as the ending
Speaker 1: of something like that is, I'm I'm oh well versed
Speaker 1: in therapy and understanding that every door shutting is a
Speaker 1: new beginning, and I do believe it. I don't think
Speaker 1: that's horseshit. I think that when you have the the
Speaker 1: grounding and the courage to say you know that something
Speaker 1: isn't working, you're saying a lot more than that to
Speaker 1: the whole world, you know, and you're inviting in things
Speaker 1: that are going to be workable and more um suited
Speaker 1: to your needs and what what you're available for. And
Speaker 1: so I'm I'm really happy to be handling a breakup
Speaker 1: in an honest way for the first time in my life,
Speaker 1: you know, instead of you know, distracting, deflecting, and and
Speaker 1: and doing all these things to be like I'm I'm fine,
Speaker 1: I'm fine, I'm fine, And then you know, the delayed
Speaker 1: grief hits you three or four months later, and you're
Speaker 1: on your knees and you haven't really dealt with anything.
Speaker 1: And in this instance, uh, you know, this has been
Speaker 1: happening for some time with us, and I've been dealing
Speaker 1: with it in real time in therapy, out of therapy,
Speaker 1: with my girlfriends, with all my support systems, knowing that
Speaker 1: when you where you're in pain, to sit with it,
Speaker 1: not to go away or take an edible, even though
Speaker 1: I always love edibles, um you know, not to not
Speaker 1: to try to numb your pain. Is what I've learned.
Speaker 1: That is the best way to get through grief in
Speaker 1: a real, responsible way and in a healthy way where
Speaker 1: it's not going to come and sneak up on you later,
Speaker 1: you know, because as anyone who's listening knows, when you're
Speaker 1: in a relationship um or you break up from a
Speaker 1: love relationship, it is an emotional roller coaster. And one
Speaker 1: day you think you're killing it and the next day
Speaker 1: you are not killing it. And that is now like
Speaker 1: the understanding of those emotions that they're coming, like Okay,
Speaker 1: you're feeling strong now, just wait, something's around the corner.
Speaker 1: And conversely that that's true, so uh, I'm much more.
Speaker 1: I have my tool kit now and that's the most
Speaker 1: invaluable thing that I forgot from Dr Dan Siegel is
Speaker 1: my tool kit and he made me a like an
Speaker 1: actualized self aware of person and being. You know, having
Speaker 1: the gift of self awareness has been the biggest gift
Speaker 1: that I've been given in this life. What's in your
Speaker 1: toolkit that you're going to pull out today? Because this
Speaker 1: is like day one? Well we have dealing with this
Speaker 1: behind the scenes for a while, so but yes it's
Speaker 1: publicly day one. Um, what's in my tool kit? You know?
Speaker 1: I meditate. I read a lot, you know, especially when
Speaker 1: I want to go to the TV to just kind
Speaker 1: of zone out. I don't. I well, I do sometimes,
Speaker 1: but I you know, in times like this, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: I read stuff that I know is going to help me.
Speaker 1: I like, I listened to things that I think are
Speaker 1: going to help me, and I'm I I allowed the
Speaker 1: time for reflection, you know, like sitting in my backyard
Speaker 1: and looking at the trees and thinking about everything that
Speaker 1: has transpired and all the good things that I got
Speaker 1: out of this and all the greatness it inspired, and
Speaker 1: so many other people, all the people that would come
Speaker 1: running up to us on the streets of New York
Speaker 1: City or Memphis or wherever we were being like, we
Speaker 1: want your love, we want your love, you know. Like
Speaker 1: that made me believe in so much. It made me
Speaker 1: believe that there is somebody for everybody. And I still
Speaker 1: believe that. You know, my person is coming, and whether
Speaker 1: that is Joe koy In, you know, at a certain time,
Speaker 1: or if it's not, like I accept that I don't,
Speaker 1: I'm not, you know, in that immature mode where I
Speaker 1: need to know the answers. I mean, we all want
Speaker 1: to know when we're breaking up what the answers are.
Speaker 1: But you know, that's part of the unknowings as to
Speaker 1: that's part of the maturity is to be sit in
Speaker 1: the unknowing and and still function and and just go, yeah,
Speaker 1: this is where I am right now. Nothing is breaking me.
Speaker 1: How did you know? This is a question that I
Speaker 1: think about all the time, work with work with relationships,
Speaker 1: with every thing. How do you know? How did you
Speaker 1: know when it was time to stop digging? Because it's
Speaker 1: like hard to know when to dig deeper in a
Speaker 1: relationship and when to quit digging, like when a relationship
Speaker 1: is the right kind of heart or the wrong kind
Speaker 1: of heart. I think when you know it becomes untenable
Speaker 1: and it becomes unhealthy, Like if you're arguing, you know,
Speaker 1: it's devolving. If you can't have conversations that are calm
Speaker 1: and loving and constant, and you're not a team, you're
Speaker 1: not feeling like a team, and then it's becomes untenable.
Speaker 1: People are are open sometimes in their lives and sometimes
Speaker 1: they're really closed off, and a lot of people it's
Speaker 1: not a fun job to do the work of looking inward,
Speaker 1: like we all know that it's ugly. And if someone
Speaker 1: had told me before I went to therapy, hey, you're
Speaker 1: gonna be going, you know, to this guy for two years,
Speaker 1: two or three times a week and fucking crying every
Speaker 1: single day for two hours and feeling like, you know,
Speaker 1: a lunatic and out of control and unspooled and all
Speaker 1: of this thing. I would have been like, no way
Speaker 1: am I doing that. I don't have time to feel
Speaker 1: that bad about myself. And so it's not an attractive
Speaker 1: endeavor for many people, And especially when you're pain and
Speaker 1: your trauma is right here. I understand the wanting to
Speaker 1: avoid that, the avoidance of wanting to look in with that,
Speaker 1: and I think, you know, I'm at a place in
Speaker 1: my life that I have to be with somebody who's
Speaker 1: where I'm at with that. And you know that's not
Speaker 1: to say anything about Joe Koy. I love him and
Speaker 1: he's on his own path, and you know, I just
Speaker 1: that's that's what I need as a human being. I
Speaker 1: had to have a conversation with myself about how much,
Speaker 1: you know, like not, I wasn't going to abandon myself,
Speaker 1: you know, and if I have to choose one person,
Speaker 1: I have to choose myself. Yeah. Yeah, So is that
Speaker 1: the wrong kind of heart is when you stay in something,
Speaker 1: when you choose the thing and you abandon yourself for
Speaker 1: that thing. Yeah, when you choose to lower your standards,
Speaker 1: your expectations when you're it's nice to twist and move
Speaker 1: for somebody, you know what I mean, It's nice to
Speaker 1: be bendable. Because I used to be so intransigent in
Speaker 1: my relationships. My opinions were fully formed. I knew it
Speaker 1: was right, everybody was wrong. If you disagreed with me,
Speaker 1: you didn't know what you were talking about until you
Speaker 1: agreed with me, and then I could explain to you
Speaker 1: some more truths, like let me explain what's going on
Speaker 1: in the world, Do you know what I mean? Like
Speaker 1: that attitude when you need to be right is always
Speaker 1: when you're wrong. You know when you need to be right.
Speaker 1: And so I think when you're not communicating in a
Speaker 1: loving way and that becomes a regular thing, then you
Speaker 1: have to call it out of love and respect for
Speaker 1: both of you. You can't continue like that, and I
Speaker 1: don't and you so so, Like I said, it's nice
Speaker 1: to bend for people. It's nice to learn how to compromise.
Speaker 1: It's nice to be able to demonstrate my love publicly.
Speaker 1: That was something I was never able to do for anybody,
Speaker 1: but I I believe Joe needed that, you know, And
Speaker 1: it was part for that, partly for that, and partly
Speaker 1: for our fans because of the reaction we got when
Speaker 1: we got together. That warmed my heart so much. And
Speaker 1: I was like, oh god, I'm gonna make everybody fall
Speaker 1: in love, like I'm gonna find a I'm gonna find
Speaker 1: a lid for every pot, you know. And I was
Speaker 1: so inspired by our us. I know, like, if you
Speaker 1: cracked me open, I can. But you know, Joe didn't
Speaker 1: crack me open. My psychiatrists cracked me open, and then
Speaker 1: I was open, and then I was able to bend
Speaker 1: for somebody and move and compromise and make them the
Speaker 1: biggest part of my life. But you you can't change somebody,
Speaker 1: you know, intrinsically, and and so I was willing to
Speaker 1: do so much bending, but that there's a line. And
Speaker 1: I'm very proud of myself because I didn't let myself
Speaker 1: cross that line. You know, it's such a freaking it's
Speaker 1: such a it's a love lesson and as just as inspiring,
Speaker 1: if not more inspiring than like I found a lid
Speaker 1: for my pot, Like I'm not changing my pot. What
Speaker 1: do you mean when you say you're psychiatrist? Broke you open? Well,
Speaker 1: he opened me. You know, I had all these stipulations,
Speaker 1: all this protective gear about, you know, protecting myself against
Speaker 1: men because of my history, because of my brother passing
Speaker 1: away when I was a little girl, and my father
Speaker 1: retreating emotionally psychologically afterward. He could never get past my
Speaker 1: brother dying. He just was never the same. So there
Speaker 1: was like an abandonment, you know, on both fronts. And
Speaker 1: because of that trauma, I layered and wrapped myself up
Speaker 1: in this bitch like fuck you, if especially if you're
Speaker 1: a man, back the funk up, because I'm going to
Speaker 1: tell you what to do, and I'm not gonna need
Speaker 1: anything from you. You know. Financial independence was like always
Speaker 1: like never ever, ever, ever rely on anyone but yourself,
Speaker 1: you know, like this, I had to grow myself up
Speaker 1: when I was a little girl. And we've all had
Speaker 1: our ship. And anyone who pretends that there haven't been
Speaker 1: through ship, then come to my house and I'll show
Speaker 1: you some ship, you know what I mean. Like it's bullshit,
Speaker 1: But um uh, I think that Dan. He took my
Speaker 1: judgments and he just broke them apart. Like when I
Speaker 1: would say, oh, I can't go out with this guy
Speaker 1: because of this, or I couldn't go out with Joe
Speaker 1: Koy because he drove a white Ferrari, I'm like, I've
Speaker 1: been there, done that, Okay, already went out with fifty cent.
Speaker 1: I don't need a fucking white Ferrari in my life.
Speaker 1: It's embarrassing for me to get out of a white Ferrari. Okay,
Speaker 1: why not have proud A written right on the side
Speaker 1: of it, you know, Like I couldn't like stuff like that.
Speaker 1: That was not a deal breaker or not a real
Speaker 1: non negotiable, but I had made it one. You know.
Speaker 1: I once went on a date with a guy who
Speaker 1: wore an air May's belt that I hadn't seen because
Speaker 1: he was seated when I arrived and when we got
Speaker 1: but when he got up to go to the bathroom,
Speaker 1: Oh no, he got up when I got there, and
Speaker 1: I saw it. And when he got up to go
Speaker 1: to the bathroom, like forty five minutes later, I got
Speaker 1: my purse and walked back to the door. I was like,
Speaker 1: what I was like, is this guy fucking for real?
Speaker 1: First of all, he was wearing cologne and an air
Speaker 1: Mas belt, So I was like, this is a no brainer.
Speaker 1: There's no way any penetration could ever happen with this man,
Speaker 1: no matter how many showers he took after back alone
Speaker 1: or how many other belts he had. Right, you would
Speaker 1: have had to abandon yourself. Yeah, I would have exactly, Yeah,
Speaker 1: a different sort of abandoning, but um but yes, No,
Speaker 1: Dan really just made me look at myself and like,
Speaker 1: what are all these protections about? You know, why do
Speaker 1: you think that you don't need a man? Why do
Speaker 1: you think that you don't need a partner? Why do
Speaker 1: you why? I'm like, because I'm happy. But it was
Speaker 1: a defense, you know, It was like now I know, Oh,
Speaker 1: and added it like, as long as it's an addition,
Speaker 1: you know, no one's to subtract from what I've built
Speaker 1: for myself, from my family, from my friends, from the
Speaker 1: love and that I've surrounded myself with. Like my friendships
Speaker 1: are so deep now, they're real, you know, they're not
Speaker 1: based on bullshit or convenience or me having a talk
Speaker 1: show and having to have fake friendships with a million people.
Speaker 1: It's it's not like that anymore. Like everything is authentic,
Speaker 1: And if you're my friend, it's because I love you,
Speaker 1: and it's because you've shown me love as well. And
Speaker 1: and I've just I mean, he he really made me
Speaker 1: understand all the barriers I had around me, and I
Speaker 1: was able to pick that apart slowly. And then with
Speaker 1: Joe Koy, he just kept showing up and showing up
Speaker 1: and showing up, and I capitulated because I fell for
Speaker 1: him and I fell in love with him because he
Speaker 1: has so many amazing qualities, and I realized how how
Speaker 1: what that can be, what what a partnership can be.
Speaker 1: Like Whereas I used to eschew like, oh I'm not
Speaker 1: you know, like I don't want to wake up with
Speaker 1: somebody in my space. I mean like you two with
Speaker 1: your videos all the time, like the day when you
Speaker 1: were just like I hate everything, I'm sad all the time.
Speaker 1: I'm like, God, Abby does not miss a fucking beat
Speaker 1: with this camera, like you know, and I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: I thought that that would gross me out, to have
Speaker 1: someone in my space so much and to be connected
Speaker 1: to someone so much that our dinners were always going
Speaker 1: to be together, or every vacation was was going to
Speaker 1: be together. And I learned now that I love that,
Speaker 1: Like I love the togetherness, you know, with the right
Speaker 1: person and the right chemistry, like and the healthiness of it,
Speaker 1: Like that is something that I am going to look
Speaker 1: for again. How did this particular relationship change you? Because
Speaker 1: it's such an interesting paradigm we have set up for women,
Speaker 1: which is like, if the only victory is a fappily
Speaker 1: ever after, forever and ever, if we set that bullshit up,
Speaker 1: and then what is the inverse of that? A failure
Speaker 1: is a breakup? But actually any relationship that changes you
Speaker 1: to the point that you look like this has changed
Speaker 1: you in terms of like being broken open in a beautiful,
Speaker 1: illuminating way. Yeah, it feels like great success to me.
Speaker 1: So what how has this particular one changed you. Well,
Speaker 1: I think you know my heart is not closing because
Speaker 1: we're breaking up. That's one way I'm not like, oh god,
Speaker 1: I'm done with men, you know. I mean I joked
Speaker 1: with you yesterday texting that you know, I'm one step
Speaker 1: closer to becoming a lesbian. We can buy, but that
Speaker 1: better isn't with the demonstration of men in their behavior
Speaker 1: the last five years is a mass exodus of adults
Speaker 1: on set lesbians. I'm happening. Let's be honest. Everyone is
Speaker 1: considering it. So people who are not naturally have no
Speaker 1: predilection towards women are like I could do that, yeah,
Speaker 1: but how he changed me? You know, his vibe, his energy,
Speaker 1: he like injected that. He has an infectious way about him,
Speaker 1: and he's up and upbeat, and you know, he gives
Speaker 1: everybody hugs all the time, which annoys the ship out
Speaker 1: of me because he tells everybody he meets, I love you,
Speaker 1: and I had, you know, I had to start saying
Speaker 1: that to my people I work at my house, whether
Speaker 1: it's the pool guy, the landscaper, my housekeeper, who I
Speaker 1: do love because we've been together for like sixteen years.
Speaker 1: But like I was telling the Pool guy that I
Speaker 1: loved him at the end of our relationship, like, oh, like,
Speaker 1: I love you, and then I'm like, if I don't
Speaker 1: do it, I'm like a big fucking gun, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. After Joe's hugging everybody, so I was
Speaker 1: hugging everybody, and and he's changed me in that way.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not going to continue hugging everybody. That's
Speaker 1: too much. And that's just too much. I mean, I
Speaker 1: don't mind hugging, but like it's much better than a handshake.
Speaker 1: That's gross at this point. Um, but I don't need
Speaker 1: to be telling everybody I love them. I can give
Speaker 1: love without you know, there are things that he injected
Speaker 1: into me that made me just realized, like my stoke
Speaker 1: for stand up, you know, came back. My desire and
Speaker 1: my ambition is back, Whereas I was kind of for
Speaker 1: a couple of years like who gives a shit about
Speaker 1: all of this? I was so judgmental about myself and
Speaker 1: my participation in Hollywood, in my identity as a famous
Speaker 1: person and what did that mean? And how empty was that?
Speaker 1: You know? All as a result of therapy where you
Speaker 1: start to analyze what what's your motivation and are you
Speaker 1: okay with your identity being completely tied to being a celebrity,
Speaker 1: Like what does that mean about you? And is that
Speaker 1: all you've got? The self realization of everything made me
Speaker 1: kind of be picked out by ambition, by working, by
Speaker 1: by by putting my nose down or my head down
Speaker 1: and doing kind of hard the hard stuff, you know,
Speaker 1: like going back to stand up after I had left
Speaker 1: it for so many years. I mean I did that
Speaker 1: before Joe, but like he reinvigorated my love for it.
Speaker 1: He just directed my special that I shot in Nashville,
Speaker 1: the Rhyman. He really changed the way that I view work,
Speaker 1: which is great for me because I'm ready for like
Speaker 1: you know, I'm back in it now and I'm into
Speaker 1: it and for the right reasons, not for the motivation
Speaker 1: that I was questioning earlier. Do you think that those
Speaker 1: were defense mechanisms too, Like if you don't let people
Speaker 1: in because you can be jaded and you can keep
Speaker 1: them out from touching you. With the same apply for
Speaker 1: your love for your work. If you say like, oh
Speaker 1: this is this doesn't mean anything. I mean if you
Speaker 1: allow it in, does that actually let you love your
Speaker 1: work again? Do you think think I think there's a.
Speaker 1: I mean there's a big you know, I'm so much
Speaker 1: more present than I used to be. I used to
Speaker 1: get on stage, have a couple of drinks to be like, fuck,
Speaker 1: when is this going to be over? Like, you know,
Speaker 1: not respecting the fact that people are there spending money
Speaker 1: on me, you know, just kind of collecting, collecting all
Speaker 1: my good stuff and not really respecting the people that
Speaker 1: are there. You know, now I go on stage, my
Speaker 1: stand up has never been sharper. I'm always like strong,
Speaker 1: I'm clear headed, I have a clarity that I haven't
Speaker 1: had and so long. And yeah, yeah, it's taking things
Speaker 1: for granted. You know, when you're not able to look
Speaker 1: at yourself, you're not able to look at your motivations
Speaker 1: and what's behind everything. And you know, in this business especially,
Speaker 1: it can get pretty confusing if you're not centered and
Speaker 1: grounded and constantly reminding yourself that you're just you're just
Speaker 1: a human being. This isn't at all. This does not
Speaker 1: define you. It is a part of who you are,
Speaker 1: it is not all of who you are. So you're
Speaker 1: you um announced this yesterday? First of all, what made
Speaker 1: you announce the break up last night? Like, did you
Speaker 1: have a moment where you're like, all right, this is it? Like,
Speaker 1: how did you decide that it was the right time. Well,
Speaker 1: my publicist called and outlets were calling and asking. It
Speaker 1: was getting leaked by people, So, uh, we split up
Speaker 1: about a month ago, and it's like, I figured we
Speaker 1: could just reconvene when we all when everything kind of
Speaker 1: cooled down, and I just figured it was time. You know,
Speaker 1: he's got a big movie coming out, and I did
Speaker 1: not want him to be standing on the red carpet
Speaker 1: answering questions about me in his big moment. And you know,
Speaker 1: Joe pretty much takes my lead on things, so I
Speaker 1: thought I better get ahead of it, not ahead of it,
Speaker 1: and I just better meet the moment and you know,
Speaker 1: actually tell everybody how I really feel instead of ignoring it.
Speaker 1: I hate that, you know. I mean, it's been such
Speaker 1: a public relationship. It would be silly to pretend it
Speaker 1: didn't happen. Do you mind if I read a little
Speaker 1: bit of it? No, okay, because I just think that
Speaker 1: I just want to talk to you about the beauty
Speaker 1: of this actual announcement because it's like a love letter
Speaker 1: and I think it's it will it's going to teach
Speaker 1: so many people how to do this in a way
Speaker 1: that is both powerful and beautiful and is a victory.
Speaker 1: M Um, Okay, here it goes. I'm not a crier,
Speaker 1: but this one might sneak through my lexapro Okay, okay, Oh,
Speaker 1: yes you do, Yes, you do, I can hook you up. Okay.
Speaker 1: In anticipation of celebrating our first year together, Joe and
Speaker 1: I recorded this video early, but as many of you
Speaker 1: have noticed, is with a heavy heart we announced that
Speaker 1: we have decided together that it is best for us
Speaker 1: to take a break from our relationship right now. I
Speaker 1: know many of you were invested in our love, and
Speaker 1: I wanted to express to you how much that meant
Speaker 1: to both of us, how much it still means, and
Speaker 1: how much I now believe in love for each one
Speaker 1: of us. This man blew my heart open with love,
Speaker 1: and because of him, my life experience has changed forever.
Speaker 1: To be loved and adored by Joe Coy has been
Speaker 1: one of the greatest gifts of my life. He renewed
Speaker 1: my faith in men and love in being one who
Speaker 1: I am, and I've never been more optimistic for the future. Joe,
Speaker 1: you blew my creativity open, my lust for working hard
Speaker 1: again being on the road again, and you reminded me
Speaker 1: who I was and always have been. And my feet
Speaker 1: have never been more firmly planted in the ground. This
Speaker 1: is not an ending, it's another beginning. And it's a
Speaker 1: comfort to know that I am still loved and love
Speaker 1: this man the way the sun loves the moon and
Speaker 1: the moon loves the sun. Your person is coming, so
Speaker 1: please continue to root for both of us because you
Speaker 1: never know what life will bring. I mean, kindness, generosity, respect, leadership,
Speaker 1: a script, just try to move ahead. And like, what, so,
Speaker 1: what what were you going for there? I was just
Speaker 1: going for putting out love, you know, Like I think,
Speaker 1: when you're in pain, the most important thing you could
Speaker 1: do is just love out, give it away, you know,
Speaker 1: just love it out. And when someone else is in pain,
Speaker 1: I needed to just give him love. And and you know,
Speaker 1: you process this differently as a man and a woman, obviously,
Speaker 1: um and I really thought he needed to hear those things,
Speaker 1: and I really thought I needed to say them, you know.
Speaker 1: So everyone knows that it wasn't like, you know, someone
Speaker 1: cheated or anything like that. It just didn't work out.
Speaker 1: And I did everything I could to try to make
Speaker 1: it work. But it didn't work out, and I wanted
Speaker 1: to make sure that everybody knew that this is this
Speaker 1: is a different me, Like this is how uh, this
Speaker 1: is the first time that I've ended a relationship where
Speaker 1: I feel like an adult, you know, um and where
Speaker 1: it's it's because it was the mature thing to do.
Speaker 1: Um And Yeah, what you were saying before is like,
Speaker 1: when do you know when it's time to get out
Speaker 1: of a relationship? We always know, you just to keep
Speaker 1: running dialogues in our head to convince ourselves otherwise. But
Speaker 1: when you know, you know, it's like any any other
Speaker 1: intuition you have, you have to like close your eyes
Speaker 1: and listen to your gut and understand that sometimes the
Speaker 1: pain that you're going to go through for a breakup
Speaker 1: is going to be it's going to be much more
Speaker 1: uh preferable than remaining in something that isn't working anymore.
Speaker 1: That's right. It's the right kind of hard, as opposed
Speaker 1: to the wrong kind of hard, which is just a
Speaker 1: slow dying. Yeah, and it's slowed, yes, a dying of yourself,
Speaker 1: an abandoning of yourself of you know. Of I think
Speaker 1: of myself as as someone who likes to set an
Speaker 1: example for other women and young women especially to be
Speaker 1: true to who you are and to to do the
Speaker 1: work that isn't pretty, and you know, like the benefits
Speaker 1: are they're always and it's like a I was talking
Speaker 1: to my friend. I don't know if you guys know
Speaker 1: who Laura Lynn Jackson is. She's yeah, yeah, yeah. I
Speaker 1: was talking to Laura yesterday, who's awesome, and she was like,
Speaker 1: you know, she told me to do something that I
Speaker 1: really did not want to do, and she's like, this
Speaker 1: is about your soul. It's about getting your soul to
Speaker 1: the next level. This is for your soul journey. If
Speaker 1: you do this, now you're raising yourself. I was like,
Speaker 1: you know, And I was like, okay, I'll do it.
Speaker 1: You know, I'll do it. And I had to make
Speaker 1: a phone call that I didn't want to make and
Speaker 1: I did what I see exactly what she did, Like
Speaker 1: she's my doctor. I was like, whatever Laura Jackson's help
Speaker 1: me to do in this moment, I'm gonna do, you know.
Speaker 1: And uh And so I think about that, like you
Speaker 1: can you know how we always go through things in
Speaker 1: life and we can look back at our breakups and
Speaker 1: we are always like, fuck, why did I do that.
Speaker 1: Why did I call that person? Yea, I was drunk?
Speaker 1: Why did I send that text? And in reactive mode?
Speaker 1: Why didn't I stop and put my phone when? And
Speaker 1: and I call my friend before I said that? And
Speaker 1: this is that Like it's such a reward to not
Speaker 1: behave that way. Yes, it's like catching up with yourself.
Speaker 1: Like when I'm in that reactive mode, I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna regret this in ten hours. And then you
Speaker 1: see it happening as you're doing it, and you're like,
Speaker 1: step away, step oh yeah, yeah, step away, step away,
Speaker 1: put your phone down and take a walk, like just
Speaker 1: it doesn't take long to cool down and get your
Speaker 1: senses back. And so it's just the exercise of doing it.
Speaker 1: And once you learn that exercise and you practice it, it,
Speaker 1: you know, it keeps, it keeps coming back to you
Speaker 1: and you don't forget, you know, then it feels like
Speaker 1: you're missing something when you don't do it. You know,
Speaker 1: I used to react to emails before I had even
Speaker 1: finished reading them. I would be like, excuse me, you
Speaker 1: freaking idiot? Are you a fucking idiot or what and
Speaker 1: be like no, no, no, and then send, you know,
Speaker 1: without even and then I'd be like, wait, oh, are
Speaker 1: there eighteen other people on this dude? You know, like
Speaker 1: I U so yeah, my uh my loy Lynn Jackson,
Speaker 1: who is a different person, told me that my spiritual
Speaker 1: exercise has to be uh save us drafts, that whether
Speaker 1: it's in real life, whether it's in an email, that
Speaker 1: I can say what I want to say, but I
Speaker 1: have to press save his drafts and not send it
Speaker 1: for twenty four hours. Um. And that's a way of
Speaker 1: not being reactive. Do you have tricks? Um? I just
Speaker 1: know to put my phone down. I go outside a
Speaker 1: lot when I'm thinking, I go grab one of my
Speaker 1: dogs to calm down. Um. And I just I know
Speaker 1: myself so well now you know, and not thought I'm
Speaker 1: cooked and I'm fixed or ready to you know, for heaven.
Speaker 1: But I know what's up with me. You know what
Speaker 1: my weaknesses are, and I've worked on them really hard.
Speaker 1: And I've had a lot of relationships and whether they
Speaker 1: be romantic or friendships, you know, I've had a lot
Speaker 1: of friendships and because of my honesty or because people
Speaker 1: you know, don't want to hear the truth. And I
Speaker 1: have very very strong relationship with telling the truth. I
Speaker 1: just feel like there's a dearth of honesty, and I
Speaker 1: feel like you you are nobody unless you can hold
Speaker 1: the truth and just tell somebody something that may or
Speaker 1: may not hurt them when somebody is in pain, and
Speaker 1: and you know you know something or you have something,
Speaker 1: especially for women, women, you don't need anyone to just
Speaker 1: bullshit you. And that's ruined a lot of my friendships,
Speaker 1: you know, And it's a heart. It comes off as harsh,
Speaker 1: and it comes off as a aggressive and like bullying
Speaker 1: and stuff. But that's not something that I'm willing to modify,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Like, there are things that
Speaker 1: you can work on, and then there are things that
Speaker 1: you hold onto because they're part of what makes you
Speaker 1: who you are and they're your character, and you know
Speaker 1: you can try and use them a little bit more discernibly.
Speaker 1: But also again, don't divorce yourself of your truth. Do
Speaker 1: you feel like I have a good, fiery friend. I
Speaker 1: see the same in you, which is truth telling, truth telling,
Speaker 1: truth telling? That is that not the way that you
Speaker 1: do love? Like a lot of people in friendships don't
Speaker 1: say the thing or don't do the thing, and so
Speaker 1: they're perceived as the kind ones, the nice ones, to
Speaker 1: me the person in the relationship, who's bringing the truth,
Speaker 1: who's bringing the fire. It might sound aggressive, but that's
Speaker 1: actually love because that's like taking the confrontational risk and
Speaker 1: like truly showing up for a person. Do you feel
Speaker 1: like when you do you feel misunderstood by that? Do
Speaker 1: you feel like that is actually how you're loving? Yeah?
Speaker 1: If I feel like one of my friends is being
Speaker 1: treated in a way that is not acceptable, then I
Speaker 1: will go to bout for them, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: It's so easy to defend other people than it is
Speaker 1: to defend yourself sometimes. Like I had a relationship with
Speaker 1: a friend, uh for a long time who did some
Speaker 1: stuff that was really really hurtful to me and I
Speaker 1: I kind of swallowed that for a while, but when
Speaker 1: I saw it happened to our another friend that she
Speaker 1: did what she did, I couldn't help myself. I was like,
Speaker 1: now this is what we're talking about here. You know,
Speaker 1: I had a conversation with you, and now you're doing
Speaker 1: it again to our other friend, and I'm watching you
Speaker 1: like you didn't hear anything I said. And then you know,
Speaker 1: that friend immediately sent me an email like I need
Speaker 1: space from you. I can't be spoken to like this,
Speaker 1: da da da dada, And I was like, no problem.
Speaker 1: Anytime anyone asked for space, No problem. You don't fight that,
Speaker 1: you don't resist the change, you just accept it. You know,
Speaker 1: people are in different places in their lives. In that moment,
Speaker 1: it was more important for me to stick up for
Speaker 1: my friend who was not being treated well than it
Speaker 1: was to worry about the status of that other friendship,
Speaker 1: you know. Um, And I probably myself on that, like
Speaker 1: I would do that for a stranger. I would go
Speaker 1: to bout for someone I met in an airport bathroom
Speaker 1: as long as they weren't asking for a picture while
Speaker 1: I was on the toilet. Um, I said, I said
Speaker 1: this to this woman the other day. I was like,
Speaker 1: can we just get out of the bathroom please before
Speaker 1: we do this? Can we this is the background that
Speaker 1: you're looking for. I just feel so much compassion for you, Chelsea,
Speaker 1: and I feel like you've been going through this and
Speaker 1: it's so tender and it's so real and it's so
Speaker 1: big in your life. And then this is day one
Speaker 1: of a whole another phase where you have to do
Speaker 1: this in public, okay, And it just feels like just
Speaker 1: as like a wound that you're starting to heal over,
Speaker 1: heal over? What is it like too? Then have to
Speaker 1: share something so sacred to you with the world and
Speaker 1: all their nonsense, and no one knows what to say,
Speaker 1: even the people who are trying to support you, I'm
Speaker 1: sure saying really stupid shit like what is that? What
Speaker 1: is that like? And what can people do better for
Speaker 1: folks like you who they love and they want to support.
Speaker 1: It's good and a breakup. Yeah, well, you know, something
Speaker 1: really sweet happened, like when Joe and I broke up,
Speaker 1: and you know, as human, he was living with me,
Speaker 1: and you know, all of his stuff was being moved
Speaker 1: out of my house and uh, my my housekeeper, my
Speaker 1: bell who's like my nanny basically, uh, and my dog's
Speaker 1: real mother, um she and my groundskeeper and all the
Speaker 1: things that rich people have. They all were sitting with
Speaker 1: me in the kitchen. I came in one day and
Speaker 1: you know, broke down and they loved Joe so much.
Speaker 1: They all loved Joe. Everyone in my life loves him
Speaker 1: because he's such a ray of sunshine. And they came
Speaker 1: in and my belt put her arm around me and
Speaker 1: she goes just so you know, you know, we all
Speaker 1: loved him, but you you know, you're our girl. We
Speaker 1: love you, We're here for you, will always be here
Speaker 1: for you. And just that made me, like, you know,
Speaker 1: turn into a blathering mess because it went so much
Speaker 1: to me because I really thought they liked him more
Speaker 1: like like, oh, it's a reminder that all the people
Speaker 1: in your life are there because of you. They were
Speaker 1: there before him and they'll be there after him. Nobody
Speaker 1: was there because of him, All of the people in
Speaker 1: my life, in my circle, my circle of friends, my family,
Speaker 1: as much as everyone loved us together and the magic
Speaker 1: of what we had when we were together, and you know,
Speaker 1: they have come to me in such a way that's
Speaker 1: like no, no, no, no, we're with you, you know.
Speaker 1: And not that you have to take sides, it's not
Speaker 1: like that, but it's it's a reminder that you're valuable
Speaker 1: and you have your own relationships and they're not because
Speaker 1: of another person. They're because of you. When you're the
Speaker 1: center of their solar system and you always have been.
Speaker 1: But when you bring somebody else to the equation, it's
Speaker 1: not like you split the solar system. It's just like
Speaker 1: a then diagram where Joe was taking up a little
Speaker 1: bit more space and then it's like a reminder, Oh no,
Speaker 1: here you are our person and that's fucking so sweet. Yeah.
Speaker 1: How do you think being this vulnerable, broken up Chelsea,
Speaker 1: which you're psychiatrist, did to you? Do you do that
Speaker 1: artist thing where artists worry that if they get healthy,
Speaker 1: they're right like in my world, we can't. You can't
Speaker 1: get too healthy or your writing will start sucking, because
Speaker 1: is you have to suffer and be miserable in order
Speaker 1: to have good writing. Do you How do you think
Speaker 1: your stand up and your work world will change with
Speaker 1: this wise, vulnerable open I mean, it's always changing, you know,
Speaker 1: like I've done. I did a stand up special a
Speaker 1: couple of years ago, right after I wrote my last
Speaker 1: book that was very like profound and meaningful and deep
Speaker 1: and like something that I didn't think you could do
Speaker 1: and stand up until nan Neet or Hannah Gadsby did that,
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, I could, I want to
Speaker 1: do that. I want to tell that story like you know, um,
Speaker 1: And that was a little bit more serious, but it
Speaker 1: was received really well. And this special that I just
Speaker 1: taped is fucking badass, like o g my kind of comedy,
Speaker 1: and I talked about I hate from hating men to
Speaker 1: falling for Joe Koy. It's all in their covids, in
Speaker 1: their dating. Uh, you know, like all the stuff that
Speaker 1: I grapple with. And I just think, you know, if
Speaker 1: you're an artist, as long as you're authentic to yourself.
Speaker 1: You know, right now I'm writing a book with Whitney,
Speaker 1: you're editor. We share an editor. Now. I I just
Speaker 1: signed a deal about falling in love about my love
Speaker 1: story and um, and I was like, oh, well, this
Speaker 1: is kind of similar to what happened with Love Warrior,
Speaker 1: you know. I was like, uh, but but you know
Speaker 1: it isn't because it's like I still fell in love.
Speaker 1: I still have my love story. It was by way
Speaker 1: of Joe, but it's not because of Joe. Like my story,
Speaker 1: Joe is not my whole story. There's still more to come.
Speaker 1: And so you know, like creatively, I think that that
Speaker 1: one line, you know, don't resist change from Eckart Toole
Speaker 1: or Deepak or one of those people that you know
Speaker 1: I could never have a real conversation with because I'm like, what, um,
Speaker 1: But I like to read their quotes and I like
Speaker 1: to read their books. UM. I had Deepunk Joe bronk
Speaker 1: Ones and I was like wait what, Like, I'm like,
Speaker 1: what are you? What are you talking about? Just send me,
Speaker 1: Just send me. I know him and his ride stone glasses.
Speaker 1: I'm like, this is very confusing messaging. Uh So, so
Speaker 1: I was gonna say a false equivalency and I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: that doesn't make any sense at uh uh. But I
Speaker 1: think if you're an artist, you know you you always
Speaker 1: have to accept the change, right, We always have to
Speaker 1: just go with the change. You have to be like, Okay,
Speaker 1: my life is different. This is okay. I'm not breakable, unbreakable.
Speaker 1: That's who I am. Like I I this isn't gonna
Speaker 1: break me psychologically, my spirit is never going to wane.
Speaker 1: This is gonna make me stronger. I'm I've never been
Speaker 1: more aware of my strength before than I am now.
Speaker 1: And you know that, in and of itself is something
Speaker 1: I wish I could just have a big bottle of
Speaker 1: people to dip it into, because there are so many
Speaker 1: women you know, that you talked to, that I talked to,
Speaker 1: that call into my podcast, that I just want to
Speaker 1: hold and be like, you are so special. You just
Speaker 1: have to start believing that you are so strong you.
Speaker 1: We all have this reservoir of strength within us just
Speaker 1: by the nature of us being alive, and some of
Speaker 1: us don't even realize how how how easy it is
Speaker 1: to tap into that and how available it is for
Speaker 1: us to tap into. And so, uh, you know that
Speaker 1: has to be part of my messaging and has always
Speaker 1: been part of my messaging. You know, I don't do
Speaker 1: anything creative anymore that doesn't have a message or doesn't
Speaker 1: make you think you know about what your stance on
Speaker 1: something is, or how you view the world, or how
Speaker 1: you view yourself in your own entitlement or lack thereof. Um. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: I forget what the question was. It was a great answer.
Speaker 1: You used a phrase at the very beginning of this
Speaker 1: conversation and I'm still thinking about because you said, I'm
Speaker 1: dealing with it now so that I don't have delayed grief.
Speaker 1: And in a lot that I've heard from you on
Speaker 1: your podcast, you talk about how when you lost Chet,
Speaker 1: your beloved brother, you realized decades later that the delayed
Speaker 1: grief was an intrinsic part of all the defenses that
Speaker 1: you put up. And you also talk about how Joe
Speaker 1: shared so many beautiful qualities with Chet, I'm wondering, did
Speaker 1: did any part of this relationship heal something for you
Speaker 1: with with chet And is there is there something to that,
Speaker 1: because there seems parallels to you know, now you're not
Speaker 1: you're you're protecting yourself in the positive way of not
Speaker 1: delaying the grief. Yes, yeah, I mean I felt my brother.
Speaker 1: I felt a lot of my brother and and and Joe.
Speaker 1: Joe wears flat annals all the time, and like, for
Speaker 1: a while, I never made the connection, but my brother
Speaker 1: used to wear flannels all the time. And I remember
Speaker 1: walking into Joe's house into his closet one day and
Speaker 1: when we first started dating, and and I saw this
Speaker 1: just a array of flannels hanging everywhere, and I went, oh,
Speaker 1: my god, this is my brother's closet. Like and I
Speaker 1: remember just you know, I used to come home after
Speaker 1: school every day and go to my brother's closet after
Speaker 1: he died, to smell his shirts and go through his
Speaker 1: shirts and sit by myself in his bed. Because I
Speaker 1: was so tough. No one could see me cry. You know,
Speaker 1: my parents weren't there, they were probably sleeping, and I
Speaker 1: would just go in there and do my grieving alone
Speaker 1: and not let anyone see me, No one was allowed
Speaker 1: to see me cry. No, that was off limits for
Speaker 1: like probably twenty five years. And um, I could cry
Speaker 1: for other people, but it couldn't be about me, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. And so when my friends would
Speaker 1: break up or my I remember my friend Amber, her
Speaker 1: wedding got called off like a week before, you know,
Speaker 1: ther guy left her and I I could not get
Speaker 1: over that guy was a wreck for her. I was.
Speaker 1: She was consoling me, and you know, I'd be sleeping
Speaker 1: in her bed and She'd like, can you fucking leave?
Speaker 1: You are bringing me down. And my other friend was like, hey,
Speaker 1: I hate to break this to you, but this is
Speaker 1: not about Amber. Okay you have I'm finished business. But
Speaker 1: I was in my twenties. I didn't know what I
Speaker 1: was crying about, you know, And now I know what
Speaker 1: I was crying about. But um yeah, there was a
Speaker 1: lot of Chet and my and Joe, and there was
Speaker 1: a lot of my mom and Joe. You know, Joe's
Speaker 1: is so loving and so caring and does everything for
Speaker 1: you know, did everything for me. You know, would hold
Speaker 1: his lip bomb in his pockets to make sure because
Speaker 1: I am an a lip bomb addict, and hold my
Speaker 1: purse never lets me carry anything, you know, in the
Speaker 1: middle of the night, he would put a pillow underneath
Speaker 1: my legs because he knows I like to sleep like that.
Speaker 1: He did so many little like only a mother love
Speaker 1: type things, you know, that my mom would have done
Speaker 1: for me, and that it was and I felt I
Speaker 1: felt their presence around us a lot, like I felt
Speaker 1: like they brought him to me for a reason. So yeah,
Speaker 1: there was a lot of healing. You know, there's been
Speaker 1: a lot of healing with Chet, with with Dan, my psychiatrist,
Speaker 1: because that's what the crux of all of it was. Um.
Speaker 1: It was about It was about that, you know, about
Speaker 1: being abandoned at that early age. And he was an
Speaker 1: attachment figure to me like he was my He was
Speaker 1: like my boyfriend. I was nine and he was twenty two,
Speaker 1: and he took me everywhere like his little plaything, you know,
Speaker 1: and I was like, where's Chat, We're going for a
Speaker 1: five hour drive to our summer house. I would drive
Speaker 1: with Chat like Chat and Chelsea. It was like, you know, bookends.
Speaker 1: He was the oldest and I was the youngest. So
Speaker 1: there was a lot of healing that had to happen
Speaker 1: with Dan, which I hated. I mean, I can't tell
Speaker 1: you the amount of times I would sit in therapy
Speaker 1: and Dan would be like Chelsea when you were nine.
Speaker 1: I'm like, Dan, please, we've been over this so many times.
Speaker 1: If you draw everything back to chat, I'm gonna stop
Speaker 1: taking you seriously. And I had that attitude like this
Speaker 1: isn't about my childhood, and that is the first sign
Speaker 1: when someone says that sentence, it is the first sign
Speaker 1: that you need therapy. And and that's what I said.
Speaker 1: I go this, there's nothing to see here, nothing, I said.
Speaker 1: My mom's dad, my brother's dad. Hopefully my dad will
Speaker 1: die soon. I'm like, I'm good with death. There's nothing
Speaker 1: to talk about with my childhood. I'm like, I'm actually
Speaker 1: just really impatient, I pulsive, and bitchy. I would like
Speaker 1: to work on those three things. And you know, now
Speaker 1: I know what that sentence meant, and and I know
Speaker 1: when people are stuck, I also can see it and
Speaker 1: I can help them. It was funny. I went out
Speaker 1: with dinner to to my girlfriends the other night, and
Speaker 1: it was like a dinner to like, you know, help
Speaker 1: me and be there for me. And my one girlfriend
Speaker 1: was just a hot mess, like just going through the cycle.
Speaker 1: Of men and this, and she's like, I don't I
Speaker 1: don't want a boyfriend, but this guy doesn't want to
Speaker 1: be exclusive, and did I looked at her. I go
Speaker 1: listen to me. You're in no place to be making
Speaker 1: any of these decisions. I'm telling you from sitting down
Speaker 1: here tonight. You're not healthy right now. Like you are
Speaker 1: unhealthy and you're not looking at yourself. You are going
Speaker 1: through something, and you have to allow yourself to go
Speaker 1: through something and stop putting using men as band aids
Speaker 1: on this. That is not going to fix you. You
Speaker 1: are doing more damage than good. Like I basically had
Speaker 1: to shake her and my friend the next morning. The
Speaker 1: other friend was like, ship, that dinner really turned around.
Speaker 1: She's like, we were supposed to be there to help you,
Speaker 1: and then you end up going off on her and
Speaker 1: and but it's true, like you know, when I see
Speaker 1: someone in pain, I want to help them. I know
Speaker 1: what what that means now, I know how to how
Speaker 1: to like you know, untapped that grief and and and
Speaker 1: say look at yourself. And so you know that's part
Speaker 1: of that honesty thing. If you have the tools to
Speaker 1: help somebody, how could you not. My friend calls those
Speaker 1: care frontations are fair. I'm gonna write that down carefrontations
Speaker 1: the next time I have one. I'm like, you know,
Speaker 1: this is a care for care Wait, Naudi say it
Speaker 1: care carefrontation, carefrontation. Okay, that'll be in the dictionary by March, definitely,
Speaker 1: Chelsea will make it. So do you know this is
Speaker 1: a little woo woo? But do you know the theory
Speaker 1: that there's like this wound in our life, in our childhood,
Speaker 1: and then if and when we create this healthier version
Speaker 1: of ourselves, what we often do next is recreate what
Speaker 1: happened to us so we can end it differently. Oh no,
Speaker 1: I've never heard that. It's interesting, right that you this
Speaker 1: fear of abandonment thing, and then and then to the
Speaker 1: loss of Chet, and now here you are, having truly
Speaker 1: been brave enough to do it, to enter into this
Speaker 1: open up your heart, and you're ending it in an
Speaker 1: opposite You're like taking that power back that you didn't
Speaker 1: have when you were a kid, because you're doing it
Speaker 1: in a way where you don't self abandoned and you
Speaker 1: don't grieve in a closet like you're actually you might
Speaker 1: still be in a closet, but it's very public what
Speaker 1: it's like, you're grieving, you're showing all of your pain
Speaker 1: and grief dealing with it now instead of putting it away,
Speaker 1: and you're doing it for all of us. I like that,
Speaker 1: just this idea that that's how we take back some
Speaker 1: of the power of our childhood that we have because
Speaker 1: I mean, people repeat those cycles all the time and patterns.
Speaker 1: You know, they don't always end them differently, but they
Speaker 1: definitely get into the same pattern, structure, same dynamic, whether
Speaker 1: it's abusive or whether it's it's you're dependent or avoidant
Speaker 1: and anxious, you know, all of those kind of dynamics
Speaker 1: that can be repetitive. Like you, you know, you have
Speaker 1: to disrupt the cycle, right, I remember it's gleat doctor
Speaker 1: gleat Atlas. Okay, let me write that down. Next to
Speaker 1: care frontation. She says, we either repeat or we repair.
Speaker 1: So we always repeat the thing, yes, yes, but either
Speaker 1: we repeat it mindlessly or we do this repair thing,
Speaker 1: which just feels like what you're doing, which is repeated
Speaker 1: but ended differently, and that that's healing. Yeah. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: like that. I think that makes a lot of sense
Speaker 1: because you know, you talk about your inner child a
Speaker 1: lot in therapy. You know, with a person that you
Speaker 1: were the age that you were when you were traumatized.
Speaker 1: Like for me, it was nine when my brother left,
Speaker 1: so emotionally I kind of stopped maturing. I wasn't in
Speaker 1: touch with how to articulate my pain. I was never
Speaker 1: told or spoke to a doctor that could help me
Speaker 1: through that, you know, so uh, in relationships, I would
Speaker 1: show up is that nine year old girl. I would
Speaker 1: throw tantrums and instead of saying I'm hurt or I
Speaker 1: love you, I would be like no, I I would
Speaker 1: withhold or stop my feet or be silent, you know,
Speaker 1: like childish behavior, and boyfriends were like listen, what, like,
Speaker 1: what's your deal? I remember I had one boyfriend who
Speaker 1: was like, I don't know what's going on with you,
Speaker 1: but it feels like you have no ability to articulate
Speaker 1: your feelings. And I was like, no, how would I like?
Speaker 1: You know, I thought stopping my feet was that like that?
Speaker 1: I thought that was how I got it across. And
Speaker 1: you know, going into therapy and understanding, oh, why you
Speaker 1: get so stuck when you talk about your feelings is
Speaker 1: because I didn't have the language, you know, And that's
Speaker 1: something that I see and a lot of people, and
Speaker 1: when you don't have the language to communicate, then it's
Speaker 1: you're never gonna You're never gonna have a healthy adult
Speaker 1: romantic relationship. You never That's what you did with that announcement.
Speaker 1: I feel like you gave people language to do this
Speaker 1: in a way that is a higher way, self wise,
Speaker 1: a self move. And you're writing this new book about
Speaker 1: your love story. It's not about you and Joe. It's
Speaker 1: about you and you. It's about the love story you're writing,
Speaker 1: the relationship you're having with yourself. And I cried and
Speaker 1: laughed when I was training for my marathon because I
Speaker 1: was listening to your book. When I found you on
Speaker 1: the side of the road, I was just like weeping.
Speaker 1: I mean, Chelsea, I can't tell you how impactful that
Speaker 1: book was and how much I longed for you to
Speaker 1: find real love. And I think that we get it
Speaker 1: also fucked and wrong with the love stories and the
Speaker 1: movie world and TV world, Like love is actually the
Speaker 1: relationship we have with ourselves. And that's what you showed
Speaker 1: me with the with the post and coming out with
Speaker 1: the story. Is the love that you now have and
Speaker 1: you've created and you built this world around you for
Speaker 1: yourself because so many people have a romantic love story,
Speaker 1: but it requires self abandonment, and that's not it. It's
Speaker 1: not just being partnered. And I love what you're saying, Abby,
Speaker 1: because it's also like, you know, I've been in love
Speaker 1: with myself before where I really thought, Wow, you're fucking awesome,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like you've got something that
Speaker 1: a lot of people don't got. But to love yourself
Speaker 1: is a much different feeling than being in love with yourself.
Speaker 1: You're not showcasing yourself for others, and it falling in
Speaker 1: love with that. You actually have looked inward and you
Speaker 1: love and respect yourself, and no one once that is built,
Speaker 1: you can't take that away from somebody. It's the same
Speaker 1: way that you can be really strong like you've always been.
Speaker 1: I mean, you have been strong like a bull and
Speaker 1: as unapologetic and as shameless. There's no one that wouldn't
Speaker 1: call you strong. And then with this though, it's like
Speaker 1: you're strong enough to be weak. I mean, anyone can
Speaker 1: stand in strength when they are surrounded by a fortress
Speaker 1: of defenses, but super fucking strong people can stand there
Speaker 1: with no defense. That's what I feel like you did
Speaker 1: with that post. It was equal parts total strength and
Speaker 1: total weakness, which we use as a like a negative
Speaker 1: thing softness. Vulnerability, yea vulnerability. Yeah, but you were like,
Speaker 1: this is how much I care. This is how much
Speaker 1: I care. Well, vulnerability is strength, you know. For a
Speaker 1: long time I looked at that as like, oh, you,
Speaker 1: vulnerability is weakness, and it's like, no, vulnerability is strength.
Speaker 1: Vulnerability is knowing that like, Okay, you're putting yourself out
Speaker 1: there in a way that is revealing and uncomfortable, and
Speaker 1: that's strong. Yes, And that's a good reminder, you know,
Speaker 1: for everybody, because the defensiveness and the toughness and the inability.
Speaker 1: You know, one thing I learned in therapy that was
Speaker 1: so valuable was my inability to like be alone, you know,
Speaker 1: to sit like just not even you know, with the
Speaker 1: TV on, to sit in my backyard and just look
Speaker 1: at the trees or the grass or whatever. And and
Speaker 1: I didn't understand why that was an issue. I was like,
Speaker 1: but I don't want to be alone. I like people.
Speaker 1: I always had an entourage. I always had like people
Speaker 1: living at my house, you know. And he was like,
Speaker 1: that's great, you can always have that, But like if
Speaker 1: you don't have a relationship with your own thoughts. If
Speaker 1: you're so scared to be alone with your inner dialogue
Speaker 1: and you're scared of what's going to come up, then
Speaker 1: you're fucked up. There's no shortcut around it. Like, no
Speaker 1: one gets away with it, No one gets away with
Speaker 1: not looking at themselves. Will bite you in the ass
Speaker 1: just when you are on top of the world, like
Speaker 1: I did with me. I was on top of the
Speaker 1: world and it bit me in the ass, and then
Speaker 1: I was defenseless because I just I just fell down,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, my defenses. I was out
Speaker 1: of defenses and and and that's not a desirable wait
Speaker 1: for it to happen. It's so much more um positive
Speaker 1: and powerful. Yeah, thank you, like too, to seek out
Speaker 1: the truth, you know, and not worry about that dulling
Speaker 1: your creativity. You're gonna be a fuller, holer person who's
Speaker 1: gonna be even more relatable, you know, because since I've
Speaker 1: cracked open, people can relate to me so much more.
Speaker 1: I was unrelatable before I went to therapyally, you know,
Speaker 1: like it was people are like, what's wrong with this
Speaker 1: fucking bitch? Is she liked this all the time? I'm like,
Speaker 1: what do you mean, I'm crushing it, like aspirational but
Speaker 1: not relatable exactly exactly and uh and you know the escapism.
Speaker 1: You know. I love to party, I love to talk
Speaker 1: about it. I love mushrooms, I love cannabis, I love alcohol,
Speaker 1: I love all of it. But you know, my relationship
Speaker 1: with all of that has also changed, you know, because
Speaker 1: of therapy, because you're like, Okay, well that's an unreasonable amount,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, like, what are you doing there?
Speaker 1: And even now, you know, especially in the throes of
Speaker 1: my feelings right now, in this last month of separating
Speaker 1: from from Joe, you know, there are times where I've
Speaker 1: had a couple of drinks with friends, and then there
Speaker 1: are times where like, no, I don't want to feel
Speaker 1: that way. I want to sleep well. I don't want
Speaker 1: to wake up in the middle of the night. I
Speaker 1: don't want to numb this. I don't want to get
Speaker 1: drunk and have fun right now. I want to deal
Speaker 1: with the pain that I'm in and exhaust that pain
Speaker 1: and get through it, because there is that is the
Speaker 1: best way in that book. I don't know if you
Speaker 1: guys have read this David Hawkings book, Letting Go. It's
Speaker 1: pretty deep and pretty metaphysical, so you have to be
Speaker 1: like really down with it when you read it, because
Speaker 1: otherwise you're like huh and um. And he talks about
Speaker 1: this guy who lost his mother and he just went
Speaker 1: to a cabin and just sat alone in this cabin
Speaker 1: and cried and cried and cried until he felt joy again.
Speaker 1: And he faced his grief head on and dealt with it,
Speaker 1: and he was able to exhaust it in a much
Speaker 1: quicker at a much quicker rate than when you are
Speaker 1: constantly trying to distract yourself from your own pain. Exhausting it,
Speaker 1: that is, I've never heard exhaust your pain. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: like running at three year old boy around in the backyard.
Speaker 1: That's how I think of pain. Let me fucking run
Speaker 1: it around and run it around so that it gets
Speaker 1: so tired that it leaves my body in a in
Speaker 1: a quicker succession than you know. All the other stuff
Speaker 1: can delay your grief. And so yeah, I want to
Speaker 1: exhaust that pain. And it's working. I feel joyful, even
Speaker 1: though I feel heartbroken. I feel so joyful and optimistic
Speaker 1: and grateful, like grateful for these amazing people in my life,
Speaker 1: Grateful to be sitting here having a conversation like this.
Speaker 1: You know, I would never have been able to talk
Speaker 1: like this openly when before I went to therapy. I
Speaker 1: would never be able to any let anyone see me
Speaker 1: this way. And you know, like I have so much
Speaker 1: gratitude for that growth, and gratitude for the fact that
Speaker 1: these conversations like on your podcast, on my podcast, on
Speaker 1: multiple podcasts. I mean, there's only like six ers of
Speaker 1: a podcast, so let's be honest, we have half of them. Um,
Speaker 1: you know that we are all talking about this stuff
Speaker 1: because you know, the only way to make somebody stronger
Speaker 1: is to share. Yeah, it's like grief. It's like the
Speaker 1: Jewish tradition of sitting sugar for yourself for a while.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, for yourself. And that's not to say
Speaker 1: it's not like a pity party. It's a you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's an actulive grieving. It's so funny because like Shiva
Speaker 1: is so depressing. That's just the way. Wouldn't it be
Speaker 1: great if every every funeral was a celebration of life
Speaker 1: and we all just took part of that person and
Speaker 1: lived in their honor, you know, instead of feeling sorry
Speaker 1: that they're not here anymore. No one's ever really gone.
Speaker 1: You know, people aren't gone once you've met them. They're
Speaker 1: with you forever if you love them and if you
Speaker 1: had something special, and that's worthwhile. And there's a different
Speaker 1: way to frame death, and there's a different way for
Speaker 1: us to cope with death. And that's why it's so
Speaker 1: beautiful when you talk about this loss in some way
Speaker 1: of Joe, is that everything you just said it is true,
Speaker 1: Like that person is forever going to be part of you,
Speaker 1: that experience forever going to be part of you. You
Speaker 1: are changed because of it, and it's almost like the
Speaker 1: rest of your loves that you have on out are
Speaker 1: in part in honor of that. Yes, absolutely, like my
Speaker 1: next relationship will only be stronger and better. You know,
Speaker 1: I don't have any time for anything other than excellent,
Speaker 1: and you know I'm I'm excellent, and I want that
Speaker 1: in return, you know. And and so that's there's a
Speaker 1: lot of dignity that comes from that self exploration and
Speaker 1: a lot of you know, self assurance. You can go
Speaker 1: through times in your life. I certainly have where I
Speaker 1: have been insecure or self conscious or second guest myself
Speaker 1: and that's not a fun feeling. And you know, most
Speaker 1: people don't know that that you can get out of
Speaker 1: that chill. See thank you, I don't. I just the
Speaker 1: way that you are walking through. This is going to
Speaker 1: change lives and it's going to it's it's a victory
Speaker 1: much it is how I feel about it because it
Speaker 1: is going to help so many people not abandon themselves
Speaker 1: and redefine what victory and love is, which is that
Speaker 1: which is perhaps partnering and only partnering with the person
Speaker 1: who never require self abandonment of you, and that it's
Speaker 1: just want everybody to repeat the mantra, I am excellent
Speaker 1: and I deserve excellence. Let us take that. You're just
Speaker 1: I just fucking love you, Chelsea Handler. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: I love you guys. I love all three of you.
Speaker 1: I love you so much, and I love that we
Speaker 1: have a history to gather Glennon from so many years,
Speaker 1: and we've done so many fun things together. You know,
Speaker 1: whether it be interviewing, well, it's always interviewing, but it's
Speaker 1: so fun to do it with you. All right, the
Speaker 1: rest of you. We will see you next time when
Speaker 1: we can do hard things. Thanks for doing hard things
Speaker 1: with us, Chelsea. We can do hard things. Is produced
Speaker 1: in partnership with Cadence thirteen studios. Be sure to rate, review,
Speaker 1: and follow the show on Apple Podcasts, Odyssey, or wherever
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. Especially, be sure to rate and
Speaker 1: review the podcast if you really liked it. If you didn't,
Speaker 1: don't worry about it. It's fine.