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Speaker 1: H what it's metastasizing my tumors. I'm Robert Evans, host

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Speaker 1: of Behind the Bastards, back on the old introduction schema,

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Speaker 1: trying it out. How are we feeling about that? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: everybody loves a good metastasization. It's a great word. Um,

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Speaker 1: one of my favorites. It's billy satisfying. You're Billy Wayne Davis.

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Speaker 1: Depending on who's asking the question, yes, yes, yes, there

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Speaker 1: are no lawmen in the room, so you are Billy

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Speaker 1: Wayne Davis. How you doing, Billy? I'm good. Do you

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Speaker 1: have any exciting plans for I don't know, roughly like

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Speaker 1: two weeks from now, dish, a little more like three

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Speaker 1: sound like a Sunday? I do someday somewhere between two

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Speaker 1: and three weeks from now, in a city somewhere between

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Speaker 1: Phoenix and San Francisco. I'll be specific plans. Yeah, this

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Speaker 1: is all line enough. Yeah, this episode was supposed to

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Speaker 1: be advertising for this thing happening in between Phoenix and

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Speaker 1: San Francisco. But it's sold out, so there's no need

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Speaker 1: to draw up excitement anymore. It's the whatsoever. There's no work, no,

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Speaker 1: and I I suggest that as a result, we callously

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Speaker 1: disregard the emotions of our fans in this episode. I

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Speaker 1: thought we already did that. Yeah yeah, but like like

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Speaker 1: like hardcore negging, like aggressively, yeah, like really really aggressively.

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Speaker 1: Speaking of aggressive, Billie, Yes, how do you feel about cancer?

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Speaker 1: I don't like it. Not a fan, huh, not a

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Speaker 1: cancer stand overall now over overall. But there's some upsides.

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Speaker 1: I can't you know, you can't say there's not everything.

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Speaker 1: So there are. Yeah, every now and then the right

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Speaker 1: person gets cancer, and I don't want to disregard, you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm very much a mos death fear, not of

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Speaker 1: man because men die sort of guy, like like, who's

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Speaker 1: the most recent guy who died of cancer? Who sucked? Uh? Well,

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Speaker 1: I say, Limball just got it exactly. Like people are like, okay,

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Speaker 1: like I think it's the best. People were like some

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Speaker 1: people were excited, but everybody else was like I don't

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Speaker 1: feel anything. That's probably good. Cancer is like a drunk

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Speaker 1: redneck with like a short barrel a R fifteen, with

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Speaker 1: one of those two and forty round drums. He doesn't

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Speaker 1: often hit what he's aiming at, but every now and

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Speaker 1: then he does. Great is a terrible and great analogy

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Speaker 1: of this. So I don't know. In all seriousness, cancer

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Speaker 1: is a big pile of ass um and it's unfortunately

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Speaker 1: one of those asses that medical science is not as

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Speaker 1: equipped to kick as we might like. Um. And despite

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Speaker 1: the wonderful advances in medicine over the last century, thousands

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Speaker 1: of people every year wind up in the nightmare situation

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Speaker 1: of having some doctor tell them I'm sorry, but there's

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Speaker 1: just nothing we can do. Uh and he and more

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Speaker 1: people wind up in the position of a doctor saying

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Speaker 1: we can beat this, but the treatment's really gonna suck balls.

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Speaker 1: And the fear and pain that accompanies both these situations

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Speaker 1: presents a real opportunity for the very worst people on earth.

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Speaker 1: And that is where you and I come in, Billy,

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Speaker 1: because our business is the very worst people on Earth.

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Speaker 1: I don't like when you said all those things and

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Speaker 1: then opportunity, it's just, well, that wasn't a word I

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Speaker 1: was thinking about, Okay, m hm. So yeah, there's a

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Speaker 1: whole industry out there, as I'm sure you're aware, to

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Speaker 1: sell people bogus cancer cures. And we'll we'll be doing

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Speaker 1: some episodes in the near future talk about black save

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Speaker 1: and all these other terrible things that people sell on

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Speaker 1: Facebook to cure each other's cancers. But today I thought

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Speaker 1: we would talk with the man who invented the modern

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Speaker 1: fake cancer cure industry, a fellow named Harry Hoxie. Have

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Speaker 1: you ever heard of Harry Hoxy Now haven't. I would

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Speaker 1: remember that name too. Yeah. H O x s E

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Speaker 1: y um. Yeah. So Harry Haxy might be the guy,

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Speaker 1: might be the greatest of the cancer con men. And

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Speaker 1: that's that's what we're gonna talk about. His business card,

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Speaker 1: Harry Cancer. Yeah, kinds of god man. Yeah, okay, you cancer,

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Speaker 1: but not really that. I'm not going to Harry M. Hoxie. Uh,

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Speaker 1: the M stands for metastasize was born on October twenty three,

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Speaker 1: nineteen o one, Auburn, Illinois. So we're already off to

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Speaker 1: a bad start, just in the middle of nothing, the

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Speaker 1: middle of goddamn. And I fucking spent some early years

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Speaker 1: in Glenn Carbon, so I can say that about Illinois.

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Speaker 1: It's nothing, nothing, nothing. He was the youngest of twelve children,

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Speaker 1: and we do not know much about his parents, really,

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Speaker 1: but we can safely assume that they loved to fuck,

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Speaker 1: that they like to fun. Because you don't get brand

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Speaker 1: every time, No, and you don't get twelve kids who

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Speaker 1: won't make it out of that hole alive in that

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Speaker 1: day and age without like really, yeah, you put in

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Speaker 1: the time exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. Harry's father, John owned

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Speaker 1: a livery stable which was essentially the gas station of

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Speaker 1: the day, and he also worked as a veterinary surgeon. Uh,

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Speaker 1: this did not does not mean that he was a

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Speaker 1: station surgeon. Where do you where do you take your horse?

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Speaker 1: Owns a gas station because brain surgery on horses it's

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Speaker 1: actually worse than that. Um so, yeah, the fact that

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Speaker 1: he was a veterinarian does not mean he was a

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Speaker 1: learned man. His license to practice pet medicine was granted

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Speaker 1: under the Grandfather Clause of the Illinois Medical Practice Act

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Speaker 1: of eighteen seventy seven. So in eighteen seventy seven, Illinois

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Speaker 1: was like there's too many people saying these doctors who

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Speaker 1: ain't doctors, and now if you're going to say you're

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Speaker 1: a doctor, you got to have a medical license. But

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Speaker 1: it was one of those things like you know when

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Speaker 1: people talk about like banning assault rifles, and they're like

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Speaker 1: the ones who aren't like better a worker, like, well

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Speaker 1: let you keep your guns. They'll be grandfathered in. They

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Speaker 1: kind of did the same thing with people who weren't

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Speaker 1: doctors but had been working as doctors prior to eighteen

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Speaker 1: seventy seven. They're like, yeah, you can keep saying it.

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Speaker 1: You keep saying you're a doctor. Yeah, okay, this is

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Speaker 1: easier than arguing with all of you guys. Yeah, we'll

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Speaker 1: just let you keep being fake doctors. Compromises, the assess

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Speaker 1: is the undergirding of democracy, Billy, it is it so?

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Speaker 1: Harry Hawksey's dad was not a doctor, but got to

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Speaker 1: keep pretending to be a veterinary doctor because he'd been

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Speaker 1: doing it for so long, um, even though his qualifications

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Speaker 1: didn't really extend far beyond having a saw. Now it's okay.

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Speaker 1: It is an interesting position where you can't say you're

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Speaker 1: a doctor anymore. I'm like, I've been being a doctor

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Speaker 1: for a long time. I've been who says I'm not

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Speaker 1: a doctor? All You've been saying it so long. All

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Speaker 1: these people say they call me doc. So I feel

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Speaker 1: I said, I haven't said as a doctor about as

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Speaker 1: a long time as it will take to get a

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Speaker 1: medical degree. You've killed a lot of people, well, but

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Speaker 1: most of them was horses. He's got a point. Just

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Speaker 1: let him make this just there's like so many counties

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Speaker 1: we have to go to. It's just yeah, that's that's

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Speaker 1: general basically how it worked out. So Haxey's dad, John

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Speaker 1: was a was a veterinarian, but not really but legally

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Speaker 1: he was. And decades later, in the nineteen fifties, Hawxey

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Speaker 1: would claim that his family's knowledge of the healing arts

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Speaker 1: went back even further. He started to claim that in

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Speaker 1: eighteen forty, his grandfather, John Haxey, a horse breeder, had

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Speaker 1: a price stallion that developed a huge cancerous lesion. John

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Speaker 1: had put the horse out to pasture and waited for

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Speaker 1: it to die, but then the beast found a clump

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Speaker 1: of shrubs and plants and just spent days eating them,

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Speaker 1: almost exclusively. Into John's shock, the animal healed. Oh wow, okay, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and this is this is not impossible. There are cases

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Speaker 1: in scientific literature of animals king out medicinal herbs on

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Speaker 1: their own to to to deal with problems. It does happen.

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Speaker 1: So the story goes that John watched his prize horse

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Speaker 1: cure itself, and then he went out and he gathered

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Speaker 1: up all the herbs that had been revealed to him

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Speaker 1: by what he called horse sense. That's that's the key

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Speaker 1: to good medicine. I mean if someone was pitching that

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Speaker 1: to me and they were like horse sense, so okay,

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Speaker 1: go on, okay, you can keep here. Yes see see

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Speaker 1: Billy and Doctor Horse, the hit Netflix uh mini series

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Speaker 1: coming to your streaming service. Until he looks at some

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Speaker 1: grass and I'm like hate that. Yeah, the horses just

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Speaker 1: squeezing on a baster to shoot bleach up people's assholes.

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Speaker 1: I didn't do it, the horse did it. Yeah. Ain't

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Speaker 1: no law that says a horse can't illegally practice bleach medicine.

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Speaker 1: So uh. John Haxey Senior UH turns this horse sense

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Speaker 1: medicine into a salve and he starts using it on

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Speaker 1: all of his other sick animals. Uh. And over the years,

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Speaker 1: that make sense? Yea that does that does track? Uh?

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Speaker 1: And over the years he found it was very effective

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Speaker 1: at treating cancer, sores, and other illnesses and his herd.

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Speaker 1: His salve was so effective that other people began seeking

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Speaker 1: out his help for their sick animals, and that Harry

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Speaker 1: Haxey would later claim is how his dad ended up

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Speaker 1: as a vet. So, I mean, it is just the

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Speaker 1: most farma bullshit you've ever heard. Though aspects of its

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Speaker 1: scan say that aspects of it scan yes, yeh many

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Speaker 1: of tobacco spit was put on my like that and

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Speaker 1: it worked. I don't know how they know there is.

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Speaker 1: Actually tobacco has medicinal benefits. Native Americans used it to

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Speaker 1: keep away certain insects for thousands of years, and it

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Speaker 1: can be used and nets, although tobacco spits not the

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Speaker 1: ideal way to do that. Yeah, as I got older,

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Speaker 1: I was like, you could have just used the tobacco.

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Speaker 1: I think, yeah you could. Yeah you did that have

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Speaker 1: to spit on me? Yeah, But I mean that's the

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Speaker 1: thing about Southern medicine. If it can be spit on you,

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Speaker 1: it will be spit on more fun. It's a it's

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Speaker 1: a fun or delivery device. It is. They're not wrong

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Speaker 1: about everything. They're usually right about all the fun stuff.

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Speaker 1: So Harry's grandfather handed his recipe down to his son,

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Speaker 1: and from the age of eight he began to help

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Speaker 1: out in his dad's business. But, as often happens, the

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Speaker 1: passes of generations brought with it change. Harry's grandfather had

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Speaker 1: been content to use his miracle cure on animals, but

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Speaker 1: Harry's father decided, fuck it, why not try this stuff

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Speaker 1: out on random human beings with cancer that ain't no

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Speaker 1: different than animals. It cures what I'm pretty sure is

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Speaker 1: his horse cancer and will cure what I'm pretty sure

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Speaker 1: is his people cancer. For years, the Haxey successfully cured

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Speaker 1: all kinds of cancers with the magic of horse science,

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Speaker 1: until John Haxey died in nineteen nineteen. As the story goes,

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Speaker 1: on his deathbed, Harry's father gave him the recipe for

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Speaker 1: making the special family save. He told his son, now

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Speaker 1: you have the power to heal the sick and save lives.

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Speaker 1: Why he did that on the deathbed? Yeah, at the end,

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Speaker 1: he was like, yeah, right at the end, here's the

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Speaker 1: ticket to saving all mankind with the sad Yep, you

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Speaker 1: wait until your death bed for that one spoons Is

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Speaker 1: that table is a table? Is it? God? Damn it?

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Speaker 1: This is obviously obviously alive. It's a blatant yeah, big

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Speaker 1: like that. That's when I'm like, well, ah, yeah, we'll

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Speaker 1: get into why exactly this like how this like him

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Speaker 1: about Obviously it is a lie. We know this for

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Speaker 1: a number of reasons, But the most obvious of The

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Speaker 1: fact is that Harry's story changed wildly over the years.

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Speaker 1: Before publishing his biography You Don't Have to Die in

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Speaker 1: nineteen fifty six, Harry claimed that his father had developed

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Speaker 1: the sav on his own in nineteen oh late. The

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Speaker 1: versions of the story Harry told also tended to leave

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Speaker 1: out the critical fact of how his father died cancer. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: his mother also died of cancer in n Now horse cancer,

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Speaker 1: not horse cancer. Did not die of horse cancer. Some

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Speaker 1: folks might suggest that a cancer cure that failed to

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Speaker 1: say both the cure's mother and father might not be

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Speaker 1: a cancer cure. But let's be fair. Mechanics still get

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Speaker 1: flat tires, you know. Personal trainers put on a couple

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Speaker 1: extra pounds around the holidays. It's unreasonable to hold every

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Speaker 1: cancer cure to the standard of actually carrying cancer. Yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: you're not gonna have any magical cancer cures. Then I

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Speaker 1: mean power market's going to really exist. Mm hmm, yeah,

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Speaker 1: very fair, think of small business owners like Harry Haxey. Now,

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Speaker 1: the reality of Harry's back stories seems to be that

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Speaker 1: he quit school at age fifteen and started working as

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Speaker 1: a coal miner. He later moved on to selling insurance.

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Speaker 1: That is a good leap, that is a good right

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Speaker 1: into a desk job. Yeah, that's the steps the change.

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Speaker 1: You want to know, my next job is not going

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Speaker 1: to be this. Uh. He completed a high school correspondence

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Speaker 1: course after studying at night for three years. And it

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Speaker 1: is not usually explained why Harry didn't go right into

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Speaker 1: his father's line of business. Perhaps he was just drawn

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Speaker 1: to the raw, erotic appeal of coal mining. Whatever the case,

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Speaker 1: Harry would later claim that he didn't start using the

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Speaker 1: formula on his own until nineteen twenty two, the year

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Speaker 1: after his mother's death. So, I mean, do you think

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Speaker 1: it is like teenage rebellion? He's like, I ain't going

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Speaker 1: into bullshit, and like, yeah, I'm going into real work.

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Speaker 1: And then you went and did real work and he's like, man, bullshit,

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Speaker 1: I see why dad has a fake cancer here. You know. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you must have tried real work one time too. You know.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna be honest if if if there's one thing

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Speaker 1: having a podcast it's taught me, it's that I probably

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Speaker 1: could have had a fake cancer cre in the nineteen

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Speaker 1: hundreds and made a good living. And if it had

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Speaker 1: been a choice between coal mining or fake cancer here,

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Speaker 1: I probably would have been a fake cancer doctor. I

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Speaker 1: come to be honest with you, and I'm a stand

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Speaker 1: up comedian because I think people are like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: do you not know how I was like, no, I

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Speaker 1: know how to do all that stuff. I just I

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Speaker 1: choosed to be a stand up comedian. Yeah. Uh so,

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Speaker 1: I bet you're wondering. What was the inciting incident that

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Speaker 1: brought Harry Haxey into the business of using his dad's

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Speaker 1: fake horse sense cancer cure. I can't, I don't want to.

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Speaker 1: He met a Civil War veteran who had cancer of

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Speaker 1: the lip. Now this veteran had found Harry, and I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna give you one guess as to which side of

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Speaker 1: the warrior wound up on. This veteran found Harry. There's

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Speaker 1: no there was no one, which it never always not

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Speaker 1: even a question. No, he's wearing a specific shade of gray. Yes,

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Speaker 1: I know. Uh. Now, this Civil War veteran found Harry

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Speaker 1: through a trail of myths about the boy's cancer curing family. Desperate,

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Speaker 1: he begged the young man for a treatment. Harry very

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Speaker 1: apologetically told the sick man that he could do nothing.

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Speaker 1: He didn't have a medical license, and that sort of

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Speaker 1: thing was required now, According to Harry, the veteran responded

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Speaker 1: with this line, nobody needs a license to save lives.

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Speaker 1: If I was drowning, would you stand by and watch

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Speaker 1: me go down? Because a sign on yonder tree says

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Speaker 1: no swimming loud fucking bulletproof logic. If it depends on

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Speaker 1: if I knew you were not, I mean, it's like, yeah, actually,

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Speaker 1: most professionals will say you shouldn't, just if you don't

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Speaker 1: have training swim in there after a dress. So why

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Speaker 1: so many people die? Because one person starts drowning and

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Speaker 1: then like three other young men will run in after

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Speaker 1: him and they'll all drown. It happens every year constantly. Now.

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Speaker 1: In his recitations of the story, Harry claimed, there's no

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Speaker 1: adequate answer to that kind of logic, and I didn't

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Speaker 1: waste any time in trying to find one. Instead, he

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Speaker 1: set right to using his magical horse medicine on the

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Speaker 1: dying veterans cancer. The cancer was cured, and for years

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Speaker 1: afterwards the veteran would claim, primarily through newspaper articles, that

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Speaker 1: he had been healed. And it's probably at this point

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Speaker 1: that we should talk about what precisely was in the

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Speaker 1: Hoxey's formula. Now, the actual formula that he used throughout

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Speaker 1: his career varied constantly and included why differences. One of

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Speaker 1: the versions of it included like this, I think was

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Speaker 1: blood root is the name, which is like it's a

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Speaker 1: it's a similar kind of compound to what you would

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Speaker 1: put on a wart. You know, you put those those

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Speaker 1: like cells that and it will burn the word off.

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Speaker 1: So one of the different formulations of the sav was that,

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Speaker 1: and that's sort of a compound can work on skin cancers.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes it usually doesn't, and it's generally so like the

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Speaker 1: different types of like different formulations that come up are

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Speaker 1: so like very so much that you can't rely on

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Speaker 1: them to cure the cancer, but it can be used

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Speaker 1: to treat cancers. And more to the point, like people

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Speaker 1: back in those days had like goiters and a bunch

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Speaker 1: of weird skin things that would just like pop up

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Speaker 1: on your body that weren't actually cancers, and a compound

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Speaker 1: like that, an es erotic compound like that can burn

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Speaker 1: those things off. So it is entirely possible this guy

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Speaker 1: had some weird lump that a doctor who wasn't really

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Speaker 1: a doctor because it was fucking nineteen and dot like

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Speaker 1: said was cancer. This guy burned it off, and the

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Speaker 1: guy was like he carried me, and the doctors like, whoa,

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Speaker 1: that's cancer. Yeah. Now, the most common recipe in the

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Speaker 1: modern day you will see given for Haxey's formula is

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Speaker 1: a mix of liquorice, red clover, burdock roots, tollingia root,

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Speaker 1: barbary kascara, prickly ash bark, and buckthorn bark. And this

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Speaker 1: was not a recipe unique to his father or his

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Speaker 1: father's father's horse. Similar formulas existed in various medicinal guides

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Speaker 1: at around the same time, and it was very first

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Speaker 1: described in eight So whatever debatable health properties you want

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Speaker 1: to attribute to Haxey's tonic, it definitely wasn't invented by

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Speaker 1: his family. It's a thing people had been using for

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Speaker 1: a very long time. And it's not even what he

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Speaker 1: used all the time. He basically just mixed up whatever

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Speaker 1: the funk he wanted most of the time. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: in the sales mode, went into sales mode. It was

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Speaker 1: all about the sales to Haxey as opposed to like

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Speaker 1: what he was actually selling, because that varied over the years.

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Speaker 1: So do you think his dad believed in it? And

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Speaker 1: he was just more of like a I am. I

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Speaker 1: am not convinced his dad ever had any kind of

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Speaker 1: cancer or save. I think he made that up to.

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Speaker 1: But it's possible you think his dad was No, you

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Speaker 1: think he made up that his dad did it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Like I I fucking make a medicinal salve that I

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Speaker 1: have given away to a couple of friends over the

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Speaker 1: years for like it's good for, Like you know, we've

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Speaker 1: used it for um, like dogs that have like a

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Speaker 1: raw spot on them to stop them from gnawing on it,

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Speaker 1: and like it's good for it's got stuff like everything

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Speaker 1: in it is something that like I can point to

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Speaker 1: double blind studies that have been conducted and show that

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Speaker 1: like plantago major does this or like and like that

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Speaker 1: was even more common back in the day. Like you

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Speaker 1: live out in the middle of nowhere, there's no fucking doctors.

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Speaker 1: Everybody's got some weird little remedy they use. So it's

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00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:39,440
Speaker 1: entirely possible that Hoxey's dad had an actual herbal remedy

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00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:41,760
Speaker 1: that he read out of some book that his son

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Speaker 1: started lying about and saying was a cancer cure tour

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00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:48,000
Speaker 1: to like who knows what happened. Any number of things

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00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:52,159
Speaker 1: could have occurred. As we'll get into what matters is

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00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:55,120
Speaker 1: less what has he was using to cure cancer and

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00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:58,359
Speaker 1: more how Haxy marketed his cancer cure that did not

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Speaker 1: cure cancer. And I want to make that to be clear. Yeah. So,

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Speaker 1: after quote unquote curing his first patient, Hawksy partnered up

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Speaker 1: with two Chicago men to form the National Cancer Research Institute,

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00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:12,639
Speaker 1: a common law trust, with the goal of exploring his

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00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:16,480
Speaker 1: father's magical save for some unknown reason, the Chicago men

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00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:20,240
Speaker 1: backed out very quickly, and Hawksy alone expanded his operations

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Speaker 1: into the hawk Side Institute, which he launched in the

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Speaker 1: town of Taylorville. Now, these facilities were the old headquarters

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Speaker 1: of the Order of the Moose, which is Bilian. I

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Speaker 1: just gave it to the look like hawks Side and

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Speaker 1: then you said moves And now can't you know it's

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Speaker 1: economy And I I know Illinois is technically part of

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Speaker 1: the Midwest. You know, we're kind of right on right

356
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Speaker 1: right in that Mason Dixon Lion area. But I'm going

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Speaker 1: to declare it part of the South just based on

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Speaker 1: this story for sure, like from like Peoria. Yeah, once

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00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:11,479
Speaker 1: you get yeah, yeah, the southern part of Illinois. Yeah,

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00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:17,280
Speaker 1: I mean you damn near Missouri. Yeah, so, yeah, the

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Speaker 1: fucking Order of the Moose. So he sets up his

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Speaker 1: headquarters in the Old Order of the Moose building, which

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Speaker 1: he buys with the help of unnamed businessmen in town

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Speaker 1: who he convinced somehow to give him a pile of money. Now,

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00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:32,080
Speaker 1: Hawxy began publishing advertisements for the Hawks Side Institute. Next uh.

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Speaker 1: They featured the word cancer in large, bold letters, followed

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Speaker 1: by this copy. Any person suffering from this malady is

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Speaker 1: invited to apply for authoritative information as to the cures

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Speaker 1: that have been affected and are now being affected at

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Speaker 1: Taylorville under strictly ethical methemetical supervision, painlessly, without operation, and

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Speaker 1: with permanent results. Those are Yeah, strictly ethical. We gotta

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Speaker 1: we gotta emphasize that. No, that doesn't make alarm bills

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Speaker 1: go off when you have to say that in your pitch.

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Speaker 1: This is ethical. This is strictly ethical. Yeah, why would

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Speaker 1: it not. Yeah, that's exactly how you know something's ethical.

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Speaker 1: How would you know something's ethical if people didn't repeatedly

377
00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:15,560
Speaker 1: tell you that they aren't combat them. It makes me

378
00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:19,760
Speaker 1: trust them. Now, interested parties, most of whom were either

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00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:22,960
Speaker 1: cancer patients or their relatives began to inquire soon, and

380
00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:26,640
Speaker 1: the Hawkside Institute was quickly filled with patients. Next, according

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Speaker 1: to a wonderful book, The Medical Messiahs by James Harvey

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00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:33,359
Speaker 1: Young quote, shortly the local paper began to run stories

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Speaker 1: of deaths that were occurring at the institute. Local doctors

384
00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:38,480
Speaker 1: began to be concerned. One of them wrote the High

385
00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:42,000
Speaker 1: Priests at the American Medical Association, telling of examining a

386
00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:44,600
Speaker 1: man who would receive the Hawkside treatment. The paste had

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00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:46,800
Speaker 1: been applied to a tumor on the cheek two days

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Speaker 1: before the man died. The doctor wrote, I was called

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00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:51,280
Speaker 1: to see him and found necrosis of not only soft

390
00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:54,040
Speaker 1: tissue of his face, but a complete destruction of the

391
00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:56,840
Speaker 1: mallar bone. The man died of hemorrhage at the hospital

392
00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:02,920
Speaker 1: and this is where were yeah, giving him like acid. Yeah,

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00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:05,560
Speaker 1: that's that's what I was saying. One of the formulations

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00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:07,919
Speaker 1: of the salve that Hawksy used was basically, it's very

395
00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:10,720
Speaker 1: similar to this stuff black salve that you see sold

396
00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:14,399
Speaker 1: all over like Facebook and ship today. Um, it's a

397
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:17,440
Speaker 1: compound that burns your skin off, and people will lie

398
00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:20,000
Speaker 1: and say it only targets cancer skills. It burns everything,

399
00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:23,480
Speaker 1: and you can potentially use types of this to burn

400
00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:27,840
Speaker 1: off very specific types of skin cancer. It's it's it

401
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:30,880
Speaker 1: can work, But the problem is that none of these

402
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,320
Speaker 1: people know what they're doing, and they over apply it

403
00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:35,639
Speaker 1: and apply it way too strongly and apply it on

404
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:37,960
Speaker 1: cancers that it can't help with. And a lot of times,

405
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:40,040
Speaker 1: if you just keep applying this, it will eat through

406
00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:45,000
Speaker 1: to the fucking bone. Like it's some Uh, it's like,

407
00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:49,640
Speaker 1: you know, an amputation can potentially be a necessary medical treatment.

408
00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:52,719
Speaker 1: If you use it for every potential illness, you're not

409
00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:58,840
Speaker 1: helping anything. This is that off like you know, you

410
00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:00,479
Speaker 1: think about like a lot of this uff like goes

411
00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:02,639
Speaker 1: back to ancient Native American remedies. And if you're in

412
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:07,080
Speaker 1: fucking the year b C and you've got a skin cancer, yeah,

413
00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:09,960
Speaker 1: this like this has something like this, we'll give you

414
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:12,439
Speaker 1: a better shot at survival than fucking nothing. Right, it

415
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:14,560
Speaker 1: might work, It did on some people, That's why they

416
00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:19,000
Speaker 1: used it, but by this time and like it's not

417
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:21,320
Speaker 1: the way to do things. And he's also not just

418
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:24,600
Speaker 1: using it on very specific kinds of skin cancer. He's

419
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:27,080
Speaker 1: just giving it to everybody who's sick, and so he

420
00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:30,920
Speaker 1: winds up burning through a lot of people's skulls. Cool,

421
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:36,840
Speaker 1: it's cool. Yeah, stuff like, hey, we should do something

422
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:41,359
Speaker 1: about that, right, Yeah, they start to they start to

423
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:43,399
Speaker 1: be like, this seems to be a problem that he

424
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:48,159
Speaker 1: keeps dissolving the skulls of people in down don't we should?

425
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 1: Should we meet up about that? Yeah? Should we should?

426
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:55,040
Speaker 1: There be a thing we do when people start melting skulls.

427
00:24:55,359 --> 00:25:00,520
Speaker 1: As a medical professional, that's not good. Now. It is

428
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:03,000
Speaker 1: nineteen twenty four and none of us are good at

429
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:06,440
Speaker 1: being doctors. But I feel like this is worse all

430
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:09,000
Speaker 1: of us that have the loss and should be able

431
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:16,040
Speaker 1: to agree now to keep the secret of his medicine. Uh,

432
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:19,800
Speaker 1: the doctor said. Hoxy bought the separate ingredients, each at

433
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:22,560
Speaker 1: a different drug store. The key ingredient analysis at a

434
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:26,240
Speaker 1: m A headquarters revealed was arsenic, as Hoxey's vaunted remedy

435
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:28,919
Speaker 1: was an escherrotic, a corrosive chemical that ate away the

436
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:31,919
Speaker 1: flesh through the ages. Physicians had employed such corrosive agents

437
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:35,359
Speaker 1: and treating external cancers, but this modive procedure had become outmoded.

438
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:38,760
Speaker 1: Pasts went out with the bustle. AT Cancer Authority has

439
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:42,520
Speaker 1: noted so far as scientific medicine is concerned such chemicals

440
00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:45,120
Speaker 1: could not distinguish between tissues that were cancerous and tissues

441
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:47,320
Speaker 1: that were sound. The risk of damage to healthy flesh

442
00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:50,159
Speaker 1: was tremendous. The rotic might eat into the blood vessels

443
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,239
Speaker 1: and cause death through bleeding. Surgery was much safer and

444
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:58,880
Speaker 1: more certain. So yeah, yeah, I agree with the last part. Yeah.

445
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:04,240
Speaker 1: You know what's even for more certain than surgery, Billy, Wayne, Yeah,

446
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:07,960
Speaker 1: it is the products and services that support this podcast,

447
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:10,800
Speaker 1: And I feel like the f d A will support

448
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:13,639
Speaker 1: us when we say that every one of these products

449
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:17,840
Speaker 1: cures cancer better than randomly applying arsenic to your face.

450
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 1: I would I would put my name on that. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely,

451
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:28,560
Speaker 1: well yes, maybe yeah, yeah, no, I will put Billy's

452
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:31,440
Speaker 1: name on that. To put my name on it, put

453
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:36,120
Speaker 1: a version of my name, Billy's name is offering. Yes,

454
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:48,080
Speaker 1: reverend doctor billionaire Wayne Davis. Yes, billionaire billionaire Wayne Davis

455
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:52,120
Speaker 1: well helped make Billy a billionaire by purchasing products from

456
00:26:52,160 --> 00:27:03,199
Speaker 1: companies that are unrelated to him. Services. We're back and

457
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:07,120
Speaker 1: we are talking about Harry Hawxy's Burn your Face Off

458
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:11,560
Speaker 1: clinic uh in Taylorville, Illinois. UM. Now the A M

459
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:14,119
Speaker 1: A did not take all this sitting down. One doctor

460
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:16,560
Speaker 1: wrote a scathing report on the Hawk Side Institute in

461
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:18,880
Speaker 1: the m A Journal, writing that tragedy would be fall

462
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:22,240
Speaker 1: cancer sufferers who are beguiled by the false beacons of

463
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:25,920
Speaker 1: the Hawk Side University, the promoters of the scheme. He wrote,

464
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:29,480
Speaker 1: we're reaping a rich harvest from gullibility and suffering, which

465
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:34,800
Speaker 1: is very well worded accurate. Now, Haxey responded in the

466
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:37,600
Speaker 1: way of all true experts charlatan's. He sued the A

467
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:39,760
Speaker 1: m A for libel and demanded a quarter of a

468
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:45,480
Speaker 1: million dollars. Yeah, and I have to say, we're gonna

469
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:47,959
Speaker 1: talk about this later. This is the first time someone's

470
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:50,480
Speaker 1: really done this. Um that like one of these medical

471
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:53,240
Speaker 1: charlatan's has taken the fight to the people trying to

472
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 1: bust him in like an organized way, and he will

473
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:57,959
Speaker 1: He will continue too. He's not really the like like

474
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 1: um Goatball doctor who we will also talk about later

475
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:04,920
Speaker 1: is kind of doing this. You know, it is similar

476
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:07,879
Speaker 1: time frame frame, but Hoxy is on the cutting edge

477
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:12,640
Speaker 1: of establishing how to attack the medical establishment to secure

478
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 1: your right to sell poison. That is, he's one of

479
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:20,919
Speaker 1: the founding fathers of that. Everything needs a pioneering. Everything

480
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:24,119
Speaker 1: needs a pioneer. That's the pioneering is always good. Doesn't

481
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 1: matter what you are, you should be rewarded for being

482
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:31,320
Speaker 1: the first. I'm gonna be the pioneer just chopping off

483
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 1: cancerous lesions real fucking fast with the machete. That you're

484
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:37,960
Speaker 1: not even the first that's done that, but I'll be

485
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 1: a guest of this podcast has taught me I will

486
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 1: not be the first, but I will be the fastest

487
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:48,000
Speaker 1: and the drunkest, and that's something to be proud of. Yeah,

488
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:51,200
Speaker 1: there's actually no way I will beat the drunk if

489
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 1: all the correct No, you won't. No, I I if

490
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 1: I can walk, I won't be as drunk as the

491
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:01,120
Speaker 1: average doctor in eighteen thirty eight or any of the

492
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:05,560
Speaker 1: Founding fathers or any of the Founding fathers. Oh god.

493
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 1: So the case spent several years wandering through the courts

494
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:12,160
Speaker 1: before the a m A finally insisted it go to trial,

495
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:14,320
Speaker 1: and this seems to have been them calling Haxey's bluff.

496
00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:15,880
Speaker 1: He did never want the court the case to go

497
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:17,760
Speaker 1: to trial. He just wanted to be able to constantly

498
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 1: raise money off of talking about this case that he

499
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 1: was fighting, and the A. M. A Was like, no,

500
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:27,920
Speaker 1: let's fucking go to court. Um. He was kind of

501
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,480
Speaker 1: shocked to wind up in court. Uh. And he was

502
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:32,800
Speaker 1: not actually prepared for a lawsuit and did not have

503
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:35,040
Speaker 1: any of the things ready that he needed to have ready,

504
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 1: and so the judge dismissed his claims. Perhaps his lawyers

505
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:40,880
Speaker 1: were distracted because at the same time they were fighting

506
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 1: a lawsuit brought against Toxie by the family of one

507
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:47,320
Speaker 1: of his dead patients. So, accused of practicing medicine without

508
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:50,400
Speaker 1: a license, Harry pled guilty and received a hundred dollar fine.

509
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:53,960
Speaker 1: This would be one of dozens of convictions for practicing

510
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 1: medicine without a license. Huh what that's all he got? Yeah,

511
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:00,520
Speaker 1: hundred dollar. I mean it's a lot of back then,

512
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:09,720
Speaker 1: it's not yeah, yeah, yeah, it's more money than but

513
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:12,360
Speaker 1: it is. You're right, absolutely not enough to stop him

514
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 1: from his behavior, or he doesn't even slow him down. No, no,

515
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 1: you don't have to pay it. Yeah. I mean you

516
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:22,160
Speaker 1: could say it does have an impact because he's forced

517
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:25,800
Speaker 1: to close the Hawkside Institute in nine after just four years,

518
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:30,480
Speaker 1: So like you could argue, you know it it did something, Um,

519
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:33,320
Speaker 1: but it did not stop Harry's dream of curing cancer

520
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:37,880
Speaker 1: with horse medicine. He immediately founded another cancer institute in Jacksonville,

521
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 1: and when this was shut down, he tried the chat

522
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 1: town of Gerard, Illinois, where he'd grown up. Somehow he

523
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 1: managed to call in the town Chamber of Commerce into

524
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:48,840
Speaker 1: letting him celebrate his return home with hawksy day, a

525
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:51,800
Speaker 1: Fourth of July like celebration from the town band, playing

526
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 1: in a small crowd of grateful patients giving their loud testimonials.

527
00:30:55,920 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 1: A fellow he does have moxie. He does, if only

528
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:07,200
Speaker 1: he had actually been selling moxie, which is of course

529
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:10,880
Speaker 1: a mixture of M I P T and M D

530
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 1: M A. That is a delightful way to spend an evening. Um, okay,

531
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:19,280
Speaker 1: I'll take okay, Yeah, it's it fucking rules. Um yeah.

532
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:21,880
Speaker 1: So a fellow who is described in the literature as

533
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 1: an eclectic doctor from Indiana praised Hoxy sav well that's

534
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:31,640
Speaker 1: what they called Larry Bird to eclectic doctor, the eclectic

535
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:35,479
Speaker 1: doctor from Indiana, And a local minister delivered a speech

536
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:38,840
Speaker 1: that praised Harry. Hoxy is a figure of near religious character.

537
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:42,600
Speaker 1: I love my country because it's heroes are such characters

538
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:47,080
Speaker 1: as George Washington, Abraham Lincoln Woodrow Wilson, who love to

539
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 1: serve but not to rule. I love Hoxie because he

540
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:54,160
Speaker 1: does not want to rule the world, but serve the world. No,

541
00:31:56,440 --> 00:32:01,280
Speaker 1: it is a good speech, and it's just God. If

542
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 1: you just get a good performer. Mm hmm, there's it's

543
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:10,280
Speaker 1: all you need. It really is. It's remarkable. Yeah, and

544
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:13,400
Speaker 1: just just don't get too full of yourself. You could

545
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:18,200
Speaker 1: do that forever. Yeah. Now, with this preamble complete, Haxey

546
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:21,160
Speaker 1: took up the stage to address his once and future neighbors.

547
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:24,720
Speaker 1: Quote from hoxy there is a lot of knockers who

548
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 1: do not know what they're talking about, and especially around

549
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:29,840
Speaker 1: a man's hometown. If those knockers are here today and

550
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 1: have the mind of a six year old child, and

551
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:34,240
Speaker 1: don't leave here today a walking talking died on the

552
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:36,920
Speaker 1: wool hawxy fan and convinced beyond a reasonable doubt that

553
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:39,920
Speaker 1: this treatment is a cure for cancer. They are either deaf, dumb,

554
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:44,280
Speaker 1: bow blind, or else they are crazy. I'm not going

555
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 1: to say that word, not not with my accent. No,

556
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna say kno. Oh, yeah, you know what.

557
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 1: I love my career and my children, you know what

558
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:59,320
Speaker 1: I mean. Yeah, yeah, as soon as yeah, sitting this out,

559
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:03,479
Speaker 1: I'm fun playing, I'll be over here. After warming up

560
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:06,480
Speaker 1: the crowd with some random insults, Haxy zeroed in on

561
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:10,760
Speaker 1: attacking the medical establishment, declaring so called real doctors with

562
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:15,160
Speaker 1: licenses hardhearted and only interested in having their hand greased

563
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 1: with plenty of money so they could buy fancy cars.

564
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:20,680
Speaker 1: He noted that he had invited the AMA to this rally,

565
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:23,360
Speaker 1: but that they refused to attend. Why don't they fighting

566
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 1: the open, Why don't they take this platform? Why don't

567
00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:29,560
Speaker 1: they prove the hacksy affairs as fake as they say?

568
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 1: Doctors curing theme? Why won't you come to my parade

569
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 1: and tell me my burning treatment? Don't care cancer? Say

570
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:41,920
Speaker 1: it to my face, Say it to my face, Say

571
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:46,720
Speaker 1: it to these dead people's burnt off faces. You gotta

572
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 1: work hard to find what's left to the faces, but

573
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 1: it's in there there. Say it to Yeah, you're gonna

574
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:54,760
Speaker 1: have to shout it because of the years in the burning.

575
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 1: But there's no care now. The A m. A was,

576
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:01,960
Speaker 1: in fact, are of all this, But letters written internally

577
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:04,520
Speaker 1: at the time show they basically concluded that the best

578
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:06,680
Speaker 1: thing to do was let Haxey run his little clinic

579
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:08,959
Speaker 1: for a while. They felt it would soon become clear

580
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:11,000
Speaker 1: that his treatment was worthless, and then he'd be run

581
00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:14,360
Speaker 1: out of town. This is an ethically dubious approach, but

582
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:17,160
Speaker 1: it kind of worked, and a Haxey soon found himself

583
00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:21,759
Speaker 1: fleeing Gerard Andy Griffith approach to it. Yeah, this is

584
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:24,560
Speaker 1: exactly how Andy Griffith would handle it. Yeah, that's the

585
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:27,879
Speaker 1: Nanny Griffith. They were like, just it'll get around. He's

586
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:32,279
Speaker 1: burning Beatle's faces, Yeah, he Folks will figure out pretty soon.

587
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:34,960
Speaker 1: They don't, but they ain't. That dumb Barney comes back

588
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:42,320
Speaker 1: in half his face. He's That would be the first

589
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:45,279
Speaker 1: act of the of the episode, this Barney getting his

590
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:50,640
Speaker 1: face burned off, his face back. Yeah. Now. Toxy was

591
00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:53,760
Speaker 1: fined twice more in Illinois for practicing medicine without a license.

592
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:57,959
Speaker 1: As an instinctive grifter, Harry Haxey knew exactly two things.

593
00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:00,879
Speaker 1: Number one, the key to griff thing is to never

594
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:04,319
Speaker 1: ever admit defeat. And number two, the second key to

595
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:06,920
Speaker 1: grifting is to move somewhere with fewer laws. If the

596
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:09,520
Speaker 1: laws keep getting in the way of your con that's

597
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:15,359
Speaker 1: really that's really everything about drifting solid. But as we've learned,

598
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:18,160
Speaker 1: they all don't stick to those rules. They do not

599
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:21,280
Speaker 1: stick to those rules, and that is what what damns

600
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:23,879
Speaker 1: them in the end. But this is not the end.

601
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:27,400
Speaker 1: So very next Haxey moved his cancer clinic to the

602
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:33,040
Speaker 1: Mexico of Illaha. I was like, no, he didn't get no, no, no, no, no,

603
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:35,879
Speaker 1: not yet. He goes to the Mexico of Illinois, which

604
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:38,480
Speaker 1: is of course Iowa. Um, and he teamed up with

605
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:41,279
Speaker 1: another random guy there, another fake doctor he thought he

606
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:44,280
Speaker 1: could cure cancer, and the two work together briefly until

607
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:46,480
Speaker 1: the state of Iowa realized what was going on and

608
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:50,600
Speaker 1: forbade Haxy from treating cancer patients ever again. So actually,

609
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:54,319
Speaker 1: Iowa handles this very well. Um. I just I can't

610
00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:56,040
Speaker 1: not make fun of Iowa, and I'm not going to

611
00:35:56,200 --> 00:36:01,759
Speaker 1: change deserve it. It's pretty there's not a single state

612
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:04,160
Speaker 1: in this union. And I will not mock except from

613
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:08,240
Speaker 1: Montana because I am frightened of it. Yeah, and it's awesome.

614
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:12,040
Speaker 1: It is awesome. Yeah, it rules. Um that is another reason.

615
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:15,480
Speaker 1: Now this began a period of travel for Harry Hawxy.

616
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:18,560
Speaker 1: He moved to Detroit and then Wheeling, West Virginia. And

617
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:21,359
Speaker 1: then Atlantic City setting up cancer clinics and having them

618
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:24,400
Speaker 1: almost immediately busted. The A m A followed him the

619
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:28,160
Speaker 1: whole way, and he's hard Virginia for any it's a

620
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 1: fucking billy, the kid's hometown, Like, it's hard. It's hard

621
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:35,439
Speaker 1: for those people to be like, hey, come on, we're

622
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:38,839
Speaker 1: West Virginia and you win a step too far for us.

623
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:42,319
Speaker 1: Come on, we we've made it mandatory for six year

624
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:45,120
Speaker 1: olds to carry handguns, but this is a step beyond

625
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 1: what we're comfortable with. Get out of here now. The

626
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:53,799
Speaker 1: A m A followed him the whole way, and he

627
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:56,960
Speaker 1: accumulated convictions for practicing medicine without a license at the

628
00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:01,160
Speaker 1: normal rate, and men accumulate twitter suspensions. By nineteen thirty six,

629
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:04,960
Speaker 1: Harry Haxey was tired of getting constantly almost immediately caught

630
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:08,000
Speaker 1: and lost lammed by the medical establishment. He decided to

631
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:12,720
Speaker 1: head to the most lawless, vile, hateful, wretched, and untrustworthy

632
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:15,800
Speaker 1: city in the United States of America, the one place

633
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:18,960
Speaker 1: where a medical con man like him could truly thrive.

634
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:25,080
Speaker 1: I'm talking, of course, about Dallas, Texas. Yeah yeah, yeah,

635
00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:32,160
Speaker 1: that's scans, Yeah yeah, yeah, it's mostly ego that yeah,

636
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 1: that city. So yeah, yeah, you've met my brother everything

637
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 1: in Dallas, Texas. It's comical. Yeah that that leads. I

638
00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:47,600
Speaker 1: mean the Chamber of Commerce, the modern Chamber of Commerce's

639
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:52,680
Speaker 1: motto is Dallas, Texas. You can get away with it here. Yeah,

640
00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:55,440
Speaker 1: this isn't a joke. This is just the truth of Dallas, Texas.

641
00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:58,040
Speaker 1: I would say of the crimes I've committed in my

642
00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 1: life have been in Dallas, Texas and no consequences. It's

643
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:12,640
Speaker 1: so funny. It's a great tip. It's like Texas Vegas.

644
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:14,799
Speaker 1: You need to do a show in Dallas for all

645
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:17,640
Speaker 1: the reasons that just got list did. Yeah, well, we'll

646
00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:20,400
Speaker 1: do a show in Dallas and I'm sure commit a

647
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 1: couple more crimes there. Um. Now, for the actual work

648
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:27,239
Speaker 1: of spreading horse medicine on dying people, Harry turned to

649
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 1: a handful of homeopathic, osteopathic, and eclectic doctors. These were

650
00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:34,880
Speaker 1: people who had medical licenses, so it was not illegal

651
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:38,040
Speaker 1: for them to practice non medicine on cancer patients. And

652
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 1: you'd think that with a situation like this, like this

653
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:43,359
Speaker 1: pretty sweet gig for a guy like Harry Hawksy, you'd

654
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:45,720
Speaker 1: think he'd be able to avoid getting in more trouble

655
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:49,200
Speaker 1: for practicing medicine without a license. But in the great

656
00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:52,760
Speaker 1: tradition of medical conman, Harry possessed a deep and uncontrollable

657
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:55,040
Speaker 1: need to really just get his hands in there. You

658
00:38:55,080 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 1: know they do. You can't stop him. You can't stop

659
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:03,080
Speaker 1: them even when they don't need to, when they're already rich.

660
00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:09,480
Speaker 1: They can't do it. They can't. It's the it's the

661
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:12,279
Speaker 1: thing that's most confusing about these guys. Obviously they are

662
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:15,360
Speaker 1: mostly just vile conman who want to make a shipload

663
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 1: of money um and don't care if it works or not.

664
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:20,880
Speaker 1: That's a factor, but there has to be an element

665
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:23,759
Speaker 1: of belief or something that makes them want to do

666
00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:26,719
Speaker 1: it themselves, like there's there's something else going on. It

667
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 1: is not yeah, I'm with you, because there is that

668
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:34,680
Speaker 1: thing of like I'll fucking do this, fucking fucking fix this,

669
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:43,680
Speaker 1: and I don't. You can't, can't. Can't. Multiple states, You've

670
00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:48,920
Speaker 1: gone through like half of them at this point, a

671
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:52,920
Speaker 1: lot of the country. You keep killing. He's like, no,

672
00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:56,600
Speaker 1: cancer does He's like, no, you've sped it up. Yeah,

673
00:39:56,680 --> 00:40:00,960
Speaker 1: you really really made it faster. But there is something

674
00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:03,440
Speaker 1: I also love that every state he goes to there's

675
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:07,399
Speaker 1: like he always teams up with a new person. So

676
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:10,560
Speaker 1: that's that cracks me up because I like to think

677
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:12,480
Speaker 1: of that moment where they both were as like, wait,

678
00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:15,680
Speaker 1: you're a full of ship too, I'm a full of

679
00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:20,320
Speaker 1: sh it you wanna Yeah? Should we make more money

680
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:23,959
Speaker 1: off of this? Yeah? I don't know. Harry was caught

681
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:26,960
Speaker 1: practicing medicine without a license and find twenty five thou

682
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:30,319
Speaker 1: dollars and given a five month sentence in jail, and

683
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:33,600
Speaker 1: especially compared to his first penalty for practicing medicine without

684
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:36,520
Speaker 1: a license, is a pretty pretty reasonable penalty at least

685
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 1: a good start. Damn. But Harry was still uh. He

686
00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:44,640
Speaker 1: was practicing in Texas. Uh. And even though Texas levied

687
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:46,760
Speaker 1: this nice fine on him, he was able to appeal

688
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:49,520
Speaker 1: the fine to a higher court within the state, who decided,

689
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:52,399
Speaker 1: what are we doing punishing this guy? He seems nice.

690
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:55,440
Speaker 1: Get out of jail, you scamp. So Texas was the

691
00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:58,960
Speaker 1: right place to move. In other words, Uh, Harry was

692
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:02,040
Speaker 1: able to avoid a few true issues of getting convicted

693
00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:05,200
Speaker 1: of practicing medicine without a license by convincing the American

694
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:08,880
Speaker 1: Natural Pathic Association to award him an honorary doctor of

695
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:12,759
Speaker 1: naturalpath He agree degree. And it's kind of hard for

696
00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:14,919
Speaker 1: me to figure out exactly how this happened. I've done

697
00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:18,080
Speaker 1: a bit of digging which suggests that this honorary status

698
00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:20,279
Speaker 1: at the time was conferred upon people who made ten

699
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:26,600
Speaker 1: dollar donations to the association. It may have been that easy.

700
00:41:26,719 --> 00:41:30,719
Speaker 1: I don't know. Um, it may have been that easy.

701
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:33,880
Speaker 1: Judging by his background. He is that clever where he

702
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:40,320
Speaker 1: was like, what is this Tim Bucks ship? Yeah, a

703
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:44,360
Speaker 1: situation where they came to him and offered him the

704
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:47,279
Speaker 1: honorary degree because he was so prominent within like this

705
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:50,360
Speaker 1: natural medicine community that was really in like the thirties

706
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:52,600
Speaker 1: and forties starting to grow into a thing. So they

707
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:54,760
Speaker 1: might have reached out to him because he was so prominent.

708
00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:58,000
Speaker 1: I really don't know. Um. Now at this point, though,

709
00:41:58,040 --> 00:42:01,080
Speaker 1: we should talk a little bit about natural apathy. Uh.

710
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:03,880
Speaker 1: The term was coined by a guy named John Sheel

711
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:07,799
Speaker 1: in eighteen ninety five, and John sold this word to

712
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:12,400
Speaker 1: the father of natural apathy, a man named Benedict Lust.

713
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:19,960
Speaker 1: All their lust, Yeah, it's amazing. Benedict Lust used the

714
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:23,080
Speaker 1: word natural apathy, which he hit again purchased to found

715
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 1: the word. The American School of Natural Apathy in nineteen

716
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:29,239
Speaker 1: o one. This was reorganized in nineteen nineteen as the

717
00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:33,160
Speaker 1: American Natural Pathic Association. It grew rapidly up into the

718
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:36,520
Speaker 1: nineteen thirties. Most states at this point we're not willing

719
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:39,440
Speaker 1: to grant natural paths licenses, and so at first the

720
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:42,640
Speaker 1: only licensed natural pathic doctors were either in England or

721
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:46,080
Speaker 1: in the American West. Even after natural apathy suffered its

722
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:48,480
Speaker 1: first collapse as a discipline in the nineteen forties, it

723
00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:51,520
Speaker 1: remained incredibly prevalent in the Pacific Northwest, and it is

724
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:56,359
Speaker 1: today this time still a big deal. And at this

725
00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:58,960
Speaker 1: time the Southwest is like the heart of the natural

726
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:01,239
Speaker 1: apathy movement, and says has a hell of a lot

727
00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:05,040
Speaker 1: of these people. So modern natural apathy is not a

728
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:08,000
Speaker 1: subject within the bounds of this episodes, and it's changed

729
00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:10,680
Speaker 1: what it means over the years a fair amount. But

730
00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:13,520
Speaker 1: in the nineteen thirties and in Texas, the term basically

731
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:15,719
Speaker 1: meant a doctor who doesn't want to follow all those

732
00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:19,080
Speaker 1: rules other doctors follow, which is your right. Texas is

733
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:23,760
Speaker 1: a perfect place for the it's perfect place. Oh god,

734
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:27,799
Speaker 1: he's right, Yeah, you're right, it's perfect. One of the

735
00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:30,279
Speaker 1: things about being a Southerner is. And one of the

736
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:33,000
Speaker 1: things about being a libertarian honestly is that everything I

737
00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:36,360
Speaker 1: love and everything I hate about both the South and

738
00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:39,480
Speaker 1: libertarianism is bound up in each other. So, like, what

739
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:42,319
Speaker 1: I love about the South is this like attitude of like,

740
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:45,560
Speaker 1: leave me the funk alone, do not tell me what

741
00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:48,920
Speaker 1: to do. I identify with that strongly. I had a

742
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:51,120
Speaker 1: plan to live in the middle of nowhere very soon.

743
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:55,080
Speaker 1: Um I I love that attitude. But it's also the

744
00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:58,280
Speaker 1: attitude that gives you nonsense doctors, because it's like nobody

745
00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:02,040
Speaker 1: should tell this guy can't burn answer off of people's faces. Yes,

746
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:05,800
Speaker 1: And it's and it takes another person like that to

747
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:08,040
Speaker 1: look and be like no, no, no, that that guy's

748
00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:10,840
Speaker 1: full of ship. That's a bad idea. Guys, we shouldn't

749
00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:13,319
Speaker 1: be doing this as a as a fuck you kind

750
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:18,000
Speaker 1: of person. That guy's a bad person. Yeah, And it

751
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:20,080
Speaker 1: it's just this kind of thing that like you just

752
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:22,480
Speaker 1: can't trust the free market to sort this ship out

753
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:25,040
Speaker 1: because the free market has no problem with this guy

754
00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:27,840
Speaker 1: making a funckload of money lighting people's faces on fire

755
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:30,000
Speaker 1: with acid. Well, free market is trying to make their

756
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:32,280
Speaker 1: own money, so we're not looking at what you're doing.

757
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:36,960
Speaker 1: That's that's why regulation Okay, we're yeah, it's why the

758
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:39,840
Speaker 1: A m A is a good thing to exist, despite

759
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:43,920
Speaker 1: some flaws that it has. Um and especially in this period,

760
00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:46,040
Speaker 1: the the A m A is really doing the Lord's

761
00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:49,640
Speaker 1: work of trying to stop this ship. So uh, while

762
00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:52,279
Speaker 1: hawks he started his Dallas practice, it was this was

763
00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:54,120
Speaker 1: right at the time that medicine was in the throes

764
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:58,440
Speaker 1: of what's known as the chemo therapeutic revolution. So chemotherapy

765
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:00,400
Speaker 1: has just become a thing at this point, and it

766
00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:04,040
Speaker 1: brought hope to countless cancer sufferers. But chemo, yeah, it

767
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:07,640
Speaker 1: still does. But chemo is also really fucking unpleasant to receive,

768
00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:10,600
Speaker 1: and it was even worse than the nineteen thirties. It's

769
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:12,680
Speaker 1: a shitty thing to have to go through, even though

770
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:16,040
Speaker 1: it absolutely does save a huge number of lives. Um.

771
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:19,719
Speaker 1: But horrible stories about painful chemo treatments that had a

772
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:22,440
Speaker 1: lower success rate than they do today helped to drive

773
00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:25,799
Speaker 1: new customers to Haxey's practice, where he treated them with

774
00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:29,480
Speaker 1: his horse medicine. Um. So yeah, this is you can

775
00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:32,799
Speaker 1: see how one feeds into the other and it's not

776
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:37,880
Speaker 1: it's just and what sucks is like these it's not

777
00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:40,480
Speaker 1: a lot of dumb dumps going to him. It's just

778
00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:44,000
Speaker 1: people that are like, just help, you know, yeah, it

779
00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:45,960
Speaker 1: just please help me. And a lot of them are

780
00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:48,120
Speaker 1: folks who, like, you know, cancer treatment was even more

781
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:49,759
Speaker 1: primitive a lot on. There are people there probably was

782
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:53,160
Speaker 1: nothing science could do to help them. Um, so they

783
00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:55,560
Speaker 1: go to him in desperation and he makes their last

784
00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:58,400
Speaker 1: months even worse, you know. And we'll talk about what

785
00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:00,319
Speaker 1: a lot of his patients were too, because it's even

786
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:03,359
Speaker 1: more complicated than that. But Billy, you know what's even

787
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:09,480
Speaker 1: better than chemotherapy. Yeah, a lot of stuff capitalism therapy, Buddy,

788
00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:15,520
Speaker 1: capitalism therapy reduced the the kind you know, a full

789
00:46:15,560 --> 00:46:23,200
Speaker 1: wallet is a kind of metastatic tumor, Billy, and capitalistic therapy,

790
00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:27,239
Speaker 1: we'll get rid of that tumor in your wallet. It's

791
00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:39,040
Speaker 1: time for an ad break services. We're back. So uh.

792
00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:42,200
Speaker 1: The early years of Harry Hawxy's wandering practice had involved

793
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:45,279
Speaker 1: him mostly using that pace that burnt off cancers, and

794
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:48,439
Speaker 1: he primarily treated like stuff like those weird like lip

795
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:52,000
Speaker 1: cancers and goiters and weird ship like that that like

796
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:54,880
Speaker 1: like that veteran came in with. And he also treated

797
00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:57,799
Speaker 1: a lot of breast cancer and unfortunately a lot of

798
00:46:57,800 --> 00:47:02,839
Speaker 1: ovarian cancer and other external can Now, part of why

799
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:06,799
Speaker 1: he had a lot of positive testimonials from patients is

800
00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:10,400
Speaker 1: that much of what he treated was not cancer. A

801
00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:12,840
Speaker 1: lot of it was warts and lumps and things people

802
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:15,600
Speaker 1: thought might be cancer, and he would tell them it

803
00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:18,080
Speaker 1: was cancer, and then he would burn it off and

804
00:47:18,120 --> 00:47:20,560
Speaker 1: most of these people would wind up being fine, and

805
00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:22,759
Speaker 1: so it's like, oh, yeah, I saved your life. I

806
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:26,320
Speaker 1: cured your fucking cancer. It was in Dallas that Hawksy

807
00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:30,040
Speaker 1: first began claiming that he could treat internal cancers too,

808
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:33,520
Speaker 1: and this evolution was probably a direct reaction to chemotherapy.

809
00:47:33,560 --> 00:47:37,000
Speaker 1: So now chemotherapy is claiming it can treat internal cancers, hacks,

810
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:42,640
Speaker 1: he's gonna start treating okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh so

811
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:45,759
Speaker 1: most of his his his mixtures varied, but most of

812
00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:49,040
Speaker 1: them included a mix of water, potassium iodide, which is

813
00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:52,960
Speaker 1: generally used to loosen mucus, an herbal actative called cascara sugar,

814
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:55,800
Speaker 1: and a few other herbs. So taking it would absolutely

815
00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:59,000
Speaker 1: provoke a physical response, you know, um, which is part

816
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:01,480
Speaker 1: of how people feel like you, Oh, I'm purging you know,

817
00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:03,759
Speaker 1: all this toxic stuff. So he's kind of the first

818
00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:05,760
Speaker 1: guy to realize that if you just make people shoot

819
00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:08,840
Speaker 1: a bunch, they'll feel like they're healing. That is yeah,

820
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:12,440
Speaker 1: I mean that's what a good hangover does too. Absolutely,

821
00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:19,080
Speaker 1: I am getting out all those skinny t scams that

822
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:23,040
Speaker 1: influence or that I was just thinking your way to

823
00:48:23,239 --> 00:48:26,759
Speaker 1: health that cleans was it you put the he just

824
00:48:26,960 --> 00:48:29,919
Speaker 1: it's literally just ship bills. Yeah, that's what it is. Yeah,

825
00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:31,600
Speaker 1: where you eat a bunch of or you just drink

826
00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:34,279
Speaker 1: a bunch of syrup and ship and that's just you're

827
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:38,000
Speaker 1: just ship your way to better health, flush in your system, yeah,

828
00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:40,600
Speaker 1: and not eating for days so that you get like

829
00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:44,239
Speaker 1: those quick you know, uh, those quick results that don't

830
00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:49,000
Speaker 1: actually stay. Um. Yeah. So he also had a medication

831
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:51,320
Speaker 1: he would give people that was basically just pepto bismal,

832
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:54,200
Speaker 1: which was a common medication at the time. Um Haxy

833
00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:57,240
Speaker 1: prescribed to deal with the nauseating effects of his other mixture.

834
00:48:57,520 --> 00:48:59,600
Speaker 1: So some of these drugs did have medicinal effects, but

835
00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:01,959
Speaker 1: none of them cured cancer. And I'm gonna quote again

836
00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:05,440
Speaker 1: from the book The Medical Messiahs. Why has colored mixtures

837
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:08,200
Speaker 1: cured cancer? Hoxey and his spokesmen were frank to confess

838
00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:10,960
Speaker 1: they did not completely know. We have been too busy

839
00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:13,759
Speaker 1: treating cancer victims and fighting court battles to keep our

840
00:49:13,760 --> 00:49:17,880
Speaker 1: clinic open, he asserted in his autobiography, to spare the time, personnel,

841
00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:22,080
Speaker 1: and facilities for objective study. His hypothesis and its bluntest version,

842
00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:24,320
Speaker 1: held that a major chemical and balance in the body

843
00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:27,279
Speaker 1: caused normal cells to mutate into a cancerous form, and

844
00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:31,080
Speaker 1: his medicines restored the original chemical environment, checking and killing

845
00:49:31,120 --> 00:49:34,640
Speaker 1: the cancerous cells. This hypothesis could be elaborated at length,

846
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:37,640
Speaker 1: as in an address delivered to Haxey's medical director, into

847
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:42,000
Speaker 1: a complicated fantasy of irrelevant scientific and pseudoscientific jargon that

848
00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:45,040
Speaker 1: sounded very impressive to the layman, but it caused genuine

849
00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:48,200
Speaker 1: cancer experts to grieve. That makes things worse, as the

850
00:49:48,239 --> 00:49:53,480
Speaker 1: experts assessed, Yeah, just to grieve, think that they felt

851
00:49:53,520 --> 00:50:00,720
Speaker 1: like something just die. Yeah, they're god. This is what

852
00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:03,680
Speaker 1: what made things worse, as the experts assessed to Haxey theories,

853
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:06,480
Speaker 1: was that the haxy literature condemned the only treatments yet

854
00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:09,600
Speaker 1: found valid in cancer therapy. And I really want to

855
00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:13,839
Speaker 1: emphasize here what a pioneering grifter Harry Haxey was Generations

856
00:50:13,840 --> 00:50:16,560
Speaker 1: of Snake oil salesman, pioneered the fine art of lying

857
00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:19,880
Speaker 1: about the efficacy of their own medication. The downside of

858
00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:21,360
Speaker 1: this is the fact that it puts a lot of

859
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:25,040
Speaker 1: pressure on your treatment to actually work. Haxey only promised

860
00:50:25,080 --> 00:50:28,280
Speaker 1: a better than fifty percent success rate with his own treatment.

861
00:50:28,719 --> 00:50:31,040
Speaker 1: Rather than trying to present it as a perfect panacea,

862
00:50:31,239 --> 00:50:34,120
Speaker 1: he emphasized that it just had a higher success rates

863
00:50:34,120 --> 00:50:38,319
Speaker 1: than conventional medicine. Hoxey's whole marketing strategy pivoted around a

864
00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:42,040
Speaker 1: ship talking real medicine rather than talking up his fake medicine.

865
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:48,480
Speaker 1: So that's cool, Wow, Yeah, he's he's a genius. He

866
00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:52,640
Speaker 1: I mean, you're not wrong, but he doesn't use his

867
00:50:52,719 --> 00:50:58,400
Speaker 1: powers for good. It's no, yeah, I mean it'd be

868
00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:00,960
Speaker 1: one thing if if he wasn't try on a discredit

869
00:51:01,640 --> 00:51:10,439
Speaker 1: credible science, but then he wouldn't be successful. Yeah, I guess. So. Yeah.

870
00:51:10,600 --> 00:51:13,720
Speaker 1: It's it's like you look at right now, Uh why

871
00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:16,600
Speaker 1: alternative medicine and goop and all this ship is more

872
00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:20,280
Speaker 1: is like the biggest it's been in decades as an industry.

873
00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:23,800
Speaker 1: It's because this fucking it's because like Facebook and Ship

874
00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:27,919
Speaker 1: have spread this welter of propaganda that has people less

875
00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:30,600
Speaker 1: trusting of modern medical science than they ever have been,

876
00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:32,360
Speaker 1: and other ship plays into that the fact that we

877
00:51:32,360 --> 00:51:34,480
Speaker 1: don't have universal health care, the fact that so like

878
00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:37,040
Speaker 1: people are like going broke trying to get treated, and

879
00:51:37,120 --> 00:51:41,000
Speaker 1: like the whole medical system is this very unfriendly mess

880
00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:43,319
Speaker 1: to get into, and like all of the scammers are

881
00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:46,720
Speaker 1: very friendly and nice, and like all these different Facebook

882
00:51:46,719 --> 00:51:49,920
Speaker 1: support groups, people share their stories about using bullshit medicine

883
00:51:49,920 --> 00:51:53,160
Speaker 1: to treat themselves like and attack mainstream medicine at the

884
00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:56,239
Speaker 1: same time. Like it's all Harry Haxy is like the

885
00:51:56,280 --> 00:51:59,359
Speaker 1: first guy to realize this and to try to do it,

886
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:03,040
Speaker 1: but it doesn't reach its apothesis until the Internet really

887
00:52:03,080 --> 00:52:05,440
Speaker 1: makes it possible to convince a bunch of people that

888
00:52:05,600 --> 00:52:09,560
Speaker 1: doctors are all in on a scam. I mean, and

889
00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:13,720
Speaker 1: it's great. You look at the opioid epidemic too, Yeah,

890
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:15,920
Speaker 1: just like you're telling at all those factors, so you're

891
00:52:15,920 --> 00:52:17,400
Speaker 1: like you look at all of the command your X

892
00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:19,680
Speaker 1: oh yes see where it's just a fucking field for

893
00:52:19,719 --> 00:52:24,960
Speaker 1: this mm hmm. Great stuff. So part of how Harry

894
00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:27,799
Speaker 1: Hawksy did this was by having his own medical professionals

895
00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:32,600
Speaker 1: write papers and studies, lambasting the mainstream medical uh industry

896
00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:37,040
Speaker 1: or whatever you wanna call it. His own medical director, J. B. Dirky,

897
00:52:37,560 --> 00:52:40,480
Speaker 1: gave lectures where he would claim, in my opinion, X

898
00:52:40,600 --> 00:52:43,160
Speaker 1: ray and radium have no place in the treatment of cancer.

899
00:52:43,360 --> 00:52:46,360
Speaker 1: They upset basic cell metabolism rather than do anything to

900
00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:49,440
Speaker 1: correct it. A printed version of Dirky's lecture was handed

901
00:52:49,440 --> 00:52:51,440
Speaker 1: out to new patients in order to convince them that

902
00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:56,040
Speaker 1: actual medicine would only make them sicker. New patients, generally

903
00:52:56,080 --> 00:52:58,520
Speaker 1: sick and afraid, were first sat down with a clerk

904
00:52:58,719 --> 00:53:01,759
Speaker 1: who wrote down their medical history. This included data on

905
00:53:01,840 --> 00:53:05,680
Speaker 1: what their other actual doctors had told them. Records were requested,

906
00:53:05,719 --> 00:53:08,319
Speaker 1: and then lab tests were carried out. From time to time.

907
00:53:08,360 --> 00:53:12,160
Speaker 1: They even did biopsies and took X rays to prospective patients.

908
00:53:12,280 --> 00:53:15,000
Speaker 1: The whole encounter at Haxey's clinic would have felt very

909
00:53:15,080 --> 00:53:17,920
Speaker 1: similar to a visit with their normal doctor. And this

910
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:22,400
Speaker 1: was another of Haxey's great innovations, alternative medicine that looked

911
00:53:22,440 --> 00:53:25,600
Speaker 1: from the outside just like regular medicine. And it is

912
00:53:25,640 --> 00:53:28,479
Speaker 1: this weird situation where like you have to convince people

913
00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:30,920
Speaker 1: that regular doctors are full of ship and trying to

914
00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:33,800
Speaker 1: scam them. But you also, the more like a regular

915
00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:37,600
Speaker 1: doctor's office, your office feels, the more successful your kind

916
00:53:37,680 --> 00:53:39,719
Speaker 1: is going to be. Took a church that opens a

917
00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:47,840
Speaker 1: coffee shop exactly like a church that hey man, he lost, Yeah,

918
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:52,440
Speaker 1: i am lost. I am lost inside inside, here's the

919
00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:57,239
Speaker 1: cappuccino and some Jesus. Now, the dangerous nonsense didn't start

920
00:53:57,320 --> 00:54:00,440
Speaker 1: until after a cancer diagnosis had been given to the patient,

921
00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:02,760
Speaker 1: which of course was given in roughly a hundred percent

922
00:54:02,840 --> 00:54:07,120
Speaker 1: of cases. External cancers were treated with burning agents. Internal

923
00:54:07,160 --> 00:54:09,719
Speaker 1: cancers were giving all sorts of weird liquids alongside a

924
00:54:09,719 --> 00:54:13,160
Speaker 1: course of vitamins, laxatives, and and acids. Once the treatment

925
00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:16,040
Speaker 1: was prescribed, the patient was taken to Haxey's business manager.

926
00:54:16,320 --> 00:54:19,040
Speaker 1: The standard fee started at three hundred dollars, which was

927
00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:23,520
Speaker 1: about fifty five hundred dollars in modern money. God, yeah,

928
00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:26,960
Speaker 1: it's a good racket, man, it is a good racket.

929
00:54:28,160 --> 00:54:31,240
Speaker 1: This worked extremely well, and soon Hawxy was making bank.

930
00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:33,520
Speaker 1: The whole thing would have looked pretty reputable to most

931
00:54:33,520 --> 00:54:36,400
Speaker 1: observers at the time. He only claimed around a fifty

932
00:54:36,400 --> 00:54:39,920
Speaker 1: to sixty success rate between the few surface cancers that

933
00:54:39,960 --> 00:54:43,479
Speaker 1: were actually eradicated by this burning compound and the fact

934
00:54:43,520 --> 00:54:46,160
Speaker 1: that many of his patients didn't really have cancer. He

935
00:54:46,200 --> 00:54:49,040
Speaker 1: had a lot of satisfied customers, and as the money

936
00:54:49,120 --> 00:54:52,719
Speaker 1: rolled in, Harry Hawxy decided he had to innovate one

937
00:54:52,760 --> 00:54:56,600
Speaker 1: more time by doing something no medical grifter had ever

938
00:54:56,760 --> 00:55:01,680
Speaker 1: done before. He attempted to get Congress on his side. No,

939
00:55:01,920 --> 00:55:03,920
Speaker 1: I thought you were going to say, he is gonna

940
00:55:04,040 --> 00:55:10,000
Speaker 1: raise someone from the dead. None that. Yeah. In nineteen

941
00:55:10,080 --> 00:55:13,320
Speaker 1: forty five, he visited the National Cancer Institute in Washington,

942
00:55:13,400 --> 00:55:16,280
Speaker 1: d c. Backed up by three congressmen who were believers

943
00:55:16,320 --> 00:55:19,080
Speaker 1: in his therapy. The n c I had been created

944
00:55:19,120 --> 00:55:21,840
Speaker 1: in nineteen thirty five with the goal of bringing serious

945
00:55:21,920 --> 00:55:24,640
Speaker 1: resources to bear in the fight against cancer. Since the

946
00:55:24,680 --> 00:55:27,080
Speaker 1: state of the field was more primitive back then, they

947
00:55:27,120 --> 00:55:29,520
Speaker 1: were trying everything, and there was a willingness from within

948
00:55:29,560 --> 00:55:31,920
Speaker 1: the n CIS doctors to see if there might be

949
00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:37,000
Speaker 1: something to Haxey's treatments. You know, it has always been

950
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:43,240
Speaker 1: corrupt and stupid and mostly stupid, very corrupt, but stupid

951
00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:50,000
Speaker 1: is the dominant thing. There's so dumb, so unbelievably dumb.

952
00:55:50,200 --> 00:55:53,360
Speaker 1: It's not new when this is the end. This is

953
00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:57,600
Speaker 1: how it's always been. They've always been exactly this. Things

954
00:55:57,600 --> 00:56:00,120
Speaker 1: have always been exactly this dumb. They're just fast are

955
00:56:00,160 --> 00:56:05,440
Speaker 1: now and we just see it way more clear? Yeah

956
00:56:05,719 --> 00:56:09,960
Speaker 1: it is, Yeah, it is clear, thankfully thanks to the

957
00:56:09,960 --> 00:56:14,399
Speaker 1: work of pioneering journalists like the Washington Post who put

958
00:56:14,480 --> 00:56:18,120
Speaker 1: up great columns like why we need more elitism in politics.

959
00:56:18,640 --> 00:56:23,799
Speaker 1: Finally someone's brave enough to say it. So, yeah, he

960
00:56:23,840 --> 00:56:25,920
Speaker 1: goes to the he gets he goes with these congressmen

961
00:56:25,960 --> 00:56:27,439
Speaker 1: to the n c I to like see if there's

962
00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:29,359
Speaker 1: in in the doctors. They were like, yeah, well we'll

963
00:56:29,360 --> 00:56:31,520
Speaker 1: take a look at your treatments. Why not. Uh, And

964
00:56:31,520 --> 00:56:34,440
Speaker 1: I'm gonna quote from the medical messiahs to to to

965
00:56:34,520 --> 00:56:38,440
Speaker 1: discuss what happened next. To avoid burdening the Council with

966
00:56:38,560 --> 00:56:41,880
Speaker 1: trivial and patently feudal suggestions, criteria had been established to

967
00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:45,360
Speaker 1: govern which methods of treating cancer among those proposed warranted

968
00:56:45,400 --> 00:56:49,000
Speaker 1: investigation and possible testing. When Haxey, the congressman in Toe,

969
00:56:49,080 --> 00:56:52,080
Speaker 1: showed up at the Institute, the n CIS director Dr. R. R.

970
00:56:52,200 --> 00:56:55,759
Speaker 1: Spencer explained to these criteria the institute, he said, would

971
00:56:55,760 --> 00:56:58,600
Speaker 1: be glad to present Haxey's case to the Advisory Council.

972
00:56:58,840 --> 00:57:01,880
Speaker 1: If he would furnish certain information, he must reveal his

973
00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:04,799
Speaker 1: formula and explain his techniques of treatment in detail. He

974
00:57:04,880 --> 00:57:07,520
Speaker 1: must also present a record of at least fifty cases

975
00:57:07,600 --> 00:57:11,040
Speaker 1: treated by his method. Each case must represent an individual

976
00:57:11,080 --> 00:57:13,799
Speaker 1: in whom the presence of internal cancer had been confirmed

977
00:57:13,800 --> 00:57:16,760
Speaker 1: by competent biopsy, who had been treated by physicians, had

978
00:57:16,760 --> 00:57:18,600
Speaker 1: given up as hopeless, and who had then been treated

979
00:57:18,600 --> 00:57:21,240
Speaker 1: by Haxey and had survived from three to five years.

980
00:57:21,800 --> 00:57:27,520
Speaker 1: Reasonable requirements right, seemingly yeah, And there was no chance

981
00:57:27,560 --> 00:57:29,800
Speaker 1: that Haxey was going to provide any of this. He

982
00:57:29,920 --> 00:57:32,680
Speaker 1: did send the n c I sixt case studies, but

983
00:57:32,720 --> 00:57:35,040
Speaker 1: their minimal review showed that none of his files were

984
00:57:35,080 --> 00:57:37,080
Speaker 1: of any use at all. He hadn't documented any of

985
00:57:37,080 --> 00:57:40,040
Speaker 1: the stuff he was supposed to document. They couldn't contact

986
00:57:40,080 --> 00:57:41,520
Speaker 1: any of these people. It was just it was just

987
00:57:41,600 --> 00:57:43,560
Speaker 1: like he basically was writing it on a piece of paper.

988
00:57:43,680 --> 00:57:46,960
Speaker 1: I cured this guy. I cured this guy too. This

989
00:57:47,040 --> 00:57:52,360
Speaker 1: guy's better fax. The n c I told him that

990
00:57:52,400 --> 00:57:53,640
Speaker 1: he was going to need to provide them with much

991
00:57:53,640 --> 00:57:55,520
Speaker 1: more information on his patients if they were going to

992
00:57:55,560 --> 00:57:58,880
Speaker 1: review his treatment properly, and Haxey decided that this was

993
00:57:58,920 --> 00:58:01,280
Speaker 1: evidence that the n c I had been compromised by

994
00:58:01,280 --> 00:58:05,480
Speaker 1: the vile beasts at the American Medical Association. He later wrote,

995
00:58:05,720 --> 00:58:11,120
Speaker 1: I was bitterly disappointed, disillusioned, and shocked. That's uh, that's

996
00:58:11,160 --> 00:58:14,600
Speaker 1: my favorite part of anyone full of shit is when

997
00:58:14,680 --> 00:58:18,400
Speaker 1: someone like this, here's their pitch out in a in

998
00:58:18,440 --> 00:58:20,760
Speaker 1: a nice way, We're like, hell, yeah, what you got?

999
00:58:21,080 --> 00:58:23,680
Speaker 1: What you got? Do you the dance? What you got?

1000
00:58:23,720 --> 00:58:26,760
Speaker 1: And then they're like and the salesman's like, oh, we

1001
00:58:26,840 --> 00:58:30,479
Speaker 1: got these people, and like cool, that sounds great. Now

1002
00:58:30,680 --> 00:58:34,760
Speaker 1: we just need you to answer these like very simple question,

1003
00:58:34,840 --> 00:58:37,440
Speaker 1: very basic question, very sample questions, and the right and

1004
00:58:37,520 --> 00:58:41,520
Speaker 1: the other person's like, how dare you When you're okay,

1005
00:58:41,560 --> 00:58:44,320
Speaker 1: all right, that's what at your move? All right, then

1006
00:58:44,360 --> 00:58:50,160
Speaker 1: we're done. That's so it's yeah, it's amazing. It rules,

1007
00:58:50,440 --> 00:58:53,200
Speaker 1: It rules, Billy. Is it pure ego? Is that what

1008
00:58:53,320 --> 00:58:56,400
Speaker 1: gets you to that room? Doing that? It's like the

1009
00:58:56,920 --> 00:58:59,360
Speaker 1: like it reminds me of the Casey Anthony thing where

1010
00:58:59,400 --> 00:59:01,760
Speaker 1: she walks and to the place she worked at and

1011
00:59:01,760 --> 00:59:03,720
Speaker 1: then just walked to the end of the wall and

1012
00:59:03,840 --> 00:59:07,480
Speaker 1: was like, I didn't really work here. I don't know.

1013
00:59:07,920 --> 00:59:11,600
Speaker 1: I I think there's ego certainly involved, but I I

1014
00:59:12,160 --> 00:59:16,480
Speaker 1: feel this is a colder scheme on his partner. I'll

1015
00:59:16,520 --> 00:59:19,520
Speaker 1: explain why. So he doesn't give up just because the

1016
00:59:19,640 --> 00:59:21,680
Speaker 1: n c I is like, you're gonna have to provide

1017
00:59:21,720 --> 00:59:26,919
Speaker 1: us with real evidence. Yeah. Um. He goes to one

1018
00:59:26,960 --> 00:59:30,360
Speaker 1: of his pet congressmen next, a senator named Elmer Thomas

1019
00:59:30,360 --> 00:59:34,920
Speaker 1: of Oklahoma. Of course, uh Now, one of Thomas's constituents,

1020
00:59:34,960 --> 00:59:38,520
Speaker 1: possibly planted by Haxey, had went gone to Elmer and

1021
00:59:38,600 --> 00:59:41,160
Speaker 1: like raved about the fact that this guy's horse medicine

1022
00:59:41,160 --> 00:59:44,080
Speaker 1: had saved his son, and he'd urged Thomas to visit

1023
00:59:44,080 --> 00:59:47,720
Speaker 1: the clinic, and Senator Thomas obliged. He held a hearing

1024
00:59:47,800 --> 00:59:50,840
Speaker 1: transcribed by a court reporter, where he questioned a number

1025
00:59:50,840 --> 00:59:53,680
Speaker 1: of patients that he'd let Haxey select, who all told

1026
00:59:53,760 --> 00:59:57,160
Speaker 1: him positive stories of their treatment. He told the senator

1027
00:59:57,200 --> 00:59:58,840
Speaker 1: he was willing to put his medicine up to any

1028
00:59:58,920 --> 01:00:02,400
Speaker 1: kind of test. This was an empty promise. No test followed,

1029
01:00:02,400 --> 01:00:04,800
Speaker 1: and Hawsy had no intention of ever submitting to one.

1030
01:00:05,040 --> 01:00:08,280
Speaker 1: But he had what he wanted. This printed testimony written

1031
01:00:08,280 --> 01:00:12,920
Speaker 1: by a court reporter of an actual senator questioning his patients.

1032
01:00:12,960 --> 01:00:15,600
Speaker 1: He printed this up and published it as final proof

1033
01:00:15,640 --> 01:00:19,240
Speaker 1: of his treatments efficacy, and he was able to be like, no,

1034
01:00:19,320 --> 01:00:20,880
Speaker 1: we went to the n c I, and you know

1035
01:00:20,960 --> 01:00:22,920
Speaker 1: we've we've submitted data to the n c I. So

1036
01:00:23,000 --> 01:00:24,439
Speaker 1: for the rest of the time you could say like, oh,

1037
01:00:24,480 --> 01:00:26,720
Speaker 1: we sent them our data. Like we're we're trying to

1038
01:00:26,720 --> 01:00:28,280
Speaker 1: play a ball here. It's the A M A that

1039
01:00:28,280 --> 01:00:31,920
Speaker 1: doesn't really want to look into what we're doing. He

1040
01:00:32,040 --> 01:00:41,360
Speaker 1: was all a scheme. Yeah, smart, always been going on. Yeah. Now.

1041
01:00:41,480 --> 01:00:45,280
Speaker 1: There were, of course lawsuits against Haxey from patients that

1042
01:00:45,360 --> 01:00:47,760
Speaker 1: his treatments had failed. In the late nineteen forties, he

1043
01:00:47,760 --> 01:00:49,960
Speaker 1: was sued by a widower who claimed that his wife's

1044
01:00:49,960 --> 01:00:52,720
Speaker 1: death had been caused by negligent treatment at Hawxy's clinic.

1045
01:00:53,120 --> 01:00:56,480
Speaker 1: This was probably true, but Haxey's lawyers protected him. He

1046
01:00:56,560 --> 01:00:59,640
Speaker 1: won two libel suits against Morris Fishbean, The A m

1047
01:00:59,640 --> 01:01:02,000
Speaker 1: as anti quack attack Dog and the hero of Our

1048
01:01:02,040 --> 01:01:06,080
Speaker 1: Goatball Doctor episode. Fish Bean was absolutely correct when he

1049
01:01:06,120 --> 01:01:09,560
Speaker 1: called Haxey a cancer charlatan, and an article titled blood

1050
01:01:09,600 --> 01:01:12,800
Speaker 1: Money published in a major Hearst magazine, he argued that

1051
01:01:12,840 --> 01:01:15,960
Speaker 1: Harry's father had been a veterinarian and a dabbler in

1052
01:01:16,040 --> 01:01:19,480
Speaker 1: faith cares who died of cancer himself. Haxey sued for

1053
01:01:19,560 --> 01:01:23,480
Speaker 1: a million dollars and one but was awarded only two dollars,

1054
01:01:23,640 --> 01:01:27,440
Speaker 1: one for himself and one for his father. And the

1055
01:01:27,480 --> 01:01:30,560
Speaker 1: whole case is really weird. The judge seems to have

1056
01:01:30,640 --> 01:01:33,680
Speaker 1: believed Haxey's claims about the efficacy of his treatment. So

1057
01:01:33,720 --> 01:01:35,600
Speaker 1: the judge is like, dumb enough that he felt for

1058
01:01:35,640 --> 01:01:38,960
Speaker 1: this guy's lies, but he also acknowledged that Haxey was

1059
01:01:39,000 --> 01:01:41,320
Speaker 1: sort of a grifter, and then all of his marketing

1060
01:01:41,360 --> 01:01:43,920
Speaker 1: relied on the fact that the medical establishment was trying

1061
01:01:43,920 --> 01:01:46,320
Speaker 1: to stop him. So he was like, clearly the A

1062
01:01:46,480 --> 01:01:49,440
Speaker 1: m A didn't damage your business by attacking you. This

1063
01:01:49,520 --> 01:01:54,600
Speaker 1: is how you're selling your treatment. Yes, that is such

1064
01:01:54,640 --> 01:02:02,320
Speaker 1: a weird train of thought. You're here, what are you

1065
01:02:02,320 --> 01:02:06,600
Speaker 1: talking about? Yeah, it's very weird. And the judge responsible

1066
01:02:06,600 --> 01:02:09,040
Speaker 1: for this baffling ruling was a guy named at Well,

1067
01:02:09,440 --> 01:02:11,760
Speaker 1: and he was on the bench again in nineteen fifty

1068
01:02:11,800 --> 01:02:14,600
Speaker 1: when the FDA went after Haxey with the intentive hitting

1069
01:02:14,640 --> 01:02:17,320
Speaker 1: him with an injunction to stop him from treating cancer.

1070
01:02:17,800 --> 01:02:20,919
Speaker 1: Their argument rested on proving that the Haxy treatment did

1071
01:02:20,960 --> 01:02:23,720
Speaker 1: not work. First, they tracked down all the patients who

1072
01:02:23,800 --> 01:02:27,600
Speaker 1: talked to Senator Thomas. They eventually selected sixteen cases where

1073
01:02:27,600 --> 01:02:31,640
Speaker 1: they were able to gather enough information to evaluate, you know, medically,

1074
01:02:32,000 --> 01:02:35,360
Speaker 1: all sixteen of these cases fell into three categories. Either

1075
01:02:35,440 --> 01:02:38,480
Speaker 1: people who had never had cancer, people who had had

1076
01:02:38,520 --> 01:02:41,120
Speaker 1: cancer but who had gone to like chemotherapy and actually

1077
01:02:41,120 --> 01:02:44,080
Speaker 1: had it treated and just also taken Haxey's treatment, or

1078
01:02:44,200 --> 01:02:47,880
Speaker 1: people who had actually had cancer taken only Haxy's treatment

1079
01:02:48,040 --> 01:02:53,360
Speaker 1: and died horribly. So yeah, I'm gonna quote again from

1080
01:02:53,360 --> 01:02:57,040
Speaker 1: the medical Messiahs. One of the most poignant cases presented

1081
01:02:57,080 --> 01:02:59,480
Speaker 1: involved a high school boy of sixteen, who, after a

1082
01:02:59,520 --> 01:03:02,880
Speaker 1: football injury, developed an extremely malignant cancer and a leg bone.

1083
01:03:03,160 --> 01:03:06,040
Speaker 1: When the boy's physician recommended amputation, the parents could not

1084
01:03:06,120 --> 01:03:08,960
Speaker 1: face this prospect and took their son instead to Haxey's clinic.

1085
01:03:09,200 --> 01:03:12,080
Speaker 1: The medical director the father testified had guaranteed a cure.

1086
01:03:12,280 --> 01:03:14,920
Speaker 1: For some four months, the lad took Haxey's tonics, they

1087
01:03:14,960 --> 01:03:17,479
Speaker 1: did no good. Several months later, the boy was dead.

1088
01:03:17,640 --> 01:03:19,960
Speaker 1: Had the amputation been performed, the physician who had first

1089
01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:22,760
Speaker 1: treated the boy testified he would have had a fighting chance.

1090
01:03:24,320 --> 01:03:27,560
Speaker 1: But I don't blame the parents either. No, no, no,

1091
01:03:27,640 --> 01:03:31,840
Speaker 1: I mean fun like, it's it's it's fucked. That's that situation,

1092
01:03:32,680 --> 01:03:35,920
Speaker 1: and it's it's also as scientists, I'm sure like when

1093
01:03:35,960 --> 01:03:39,760
Speaker 1: they evaluate all this information, they're right, Look, it's rarely

1094
01:03:40,000 --> 01:03:44,360
Speaker 1: this clear. Okay, yeah, look we're scientists. It's always like

1095
01:03:44,400 --> 01:03:46,520
Speaker 1: a little murky and then you have to wait years.

1096
01:03:46,560 --> 01:03:51,400
Speaker 1: But this is pretty Yeah, he's bullshit. Yeah. So Haxey

1097
01:03:51,440 --> 01:03:53,800
Speaker 1: did not take the stand in his own defense. Instead,

1098
01:03:53,800 --> 01:03:55,800
Speaker 1: he brought up even more of his happy patients to

1099
01:03:55,840 --> 01:03:59,400
Speaker 1: testify on his behalf. Eleven people testify that Haxey had

1100
01:03:59,440 --> 01:04:03,480
Speaker 1: cured them internal cancers. Of those claims, three were based

1101
01:04:03,520 --> 01:04:06,920
Speaker 1: solely on the patient's word, four were rebutted by research

1102
01:04:06,960 --> 01:04:09,959
Speaker 1: from the FDA, and the last four had no diagnosis

1103
01:04:09,960 --> 01:04:12,920
Speaker 1: other than the word of Haxey's medical director. Dr Derkey,

1104
01:04:13,720 --> 01:04:17,520
Speaker 1: now the district attorney in this case, pointed out that maybe,

1105
01:04:17,560 --> 01:04:20,160
Speaker 1: just maybe, doctor der Key wasn't a great guy to

1106
01:04:20,200 --> 01:04:23,200
Speaker 1: take as an expert on anything. He'd graduated from an

1107
01:04:23,200 --> 01:04:26,760
Speaker 1: osteopathic college in nineteen forty one and only interned for

1108
01:04:26,800 --> 01:04:38,040
Speaker 1: a single year in an unaccredited hospital in Nebraska Um.

1109
01:04:38,160 --> 01:04:41,360
Speaker 1: During that unaccredited single year internship, he had seen it

1110
01:04:41,480 --> 01:04:44,800
Speaker 1: most five cancer patients. By the time he joined Haxey's

1111
01:04:44,800 --> 01:04:47,680
Speaker 1: staff as his medical director in nineteen forty six, he

1112
01:04:47,720 --> 01:04:50,880
Speaker 1: had seen less than twenty cancer patients in his whole career.

1113
01:04:51,440 --> 01:04:54,960
Speaker 1: Haxey immediately had him seeing thirty five to fifty patients

1114
01:04:55,000 --> 01:04:59,160
Speaker 1: per day. Despite his utter lack of experience, Doctor Dirky

1115
01:04:59,280 --> 01:05:02,240
Speaker 1: claimed he quote did not need a biopsy to make

1116
01:05:02,280 --> 01:05:06,360
Speaker 1: a diagnosis of cancer. You just need a good old

1117
01:05:06,400 --> 01:05:16,000
Speaker 1: hand dolls one of them cancer all get here, Christ,

1118
01:05:16,840 --> 01:05:20,120
Speaker 1: it's amazing. On the rare occasions he did submit a

1119
01:05:20,120 --> 01:05:23,200
Speaker 1: biopsy to a pathological lab, the workers in those labs

1120
01:05:23,200 --> 01:05:25,240
Speaker 1: reported that he did such a piss poor job that

1121
01:05:25,320 --> 01:05:28,400
Speaker 1: the biopsy could not be used in the same world.

1122
01:05:28,760 --> 01:05:31,320
Speaker 1: This would have been damning, but Judge Yetwell liked the

1123
01:05:31,360 --> 01:05:33,640
Speaker 1: cut of Haxey's jib, and he ruled that the FDA

1124
01:05:33,760 --> 01:05:37,040
Speaker 1: could not claim that Haxey's care was injurious or futile.

1125
01:05:37,680 --> 01:05:40,240
Speaker 1: His patient survival rate was about as good as a

1126
01:05:40,360 --> 01:05:43,240
Speaker 1: real doctors. Now. The only reason it was about as

1127
01:05:43,240 --> 01:05:46,440
Speaker 1: good as a real doctors is that real cancer doctors

1128
01:05:46,600 --> 01:05:50,760
Speaker 1: treated real cancer patients and Hoxy was primarily treating random

1129
01:05:50,800 --> 01:05:53,240
Speaker 1: people who came in with random problems, who he then

1130
01:05:53,320 --> 01:05:56,120
Speaker 1: lied and set head cancer. Do you see why his

1131
01:05:56,120 --> 01:05:59,720
Speaker 1: his his treatment rate was similar to a real cancer doctors.

1132
01:06:00,720 --> 01:06:03,600
Speaker 1: Half of my patients, who mostly don't have cancer survive,

1133
01:06:03,800 --> 01:06:06,840
Speaker 1: half of your patients who have cancer survived. We're the

1134
01:06:06,920 --> 01:06:14,360
Speaker 1: same thing. So give me my license back. Let's now. Yeah,

1135
01:06:14,480 --> 01:06:20,160
Speaker 1: it's great. It rules, Billy, It absolutely rules. It does

1136
01:06:20,400 --> 01:06:26,280
Speaker 1: it inspires people like Elizabeth Holmes, Yes it did. The

1137
01:06:26,400 --> 01:06:29,120
Speaker 1: FDA appealed and asked a circuit court to grant the

1138
01:06:29,160 --> 01:06:32,120
Speaker 1: injunction instead, arguing that at Will had been swayed by

1139
01:06:32,200 --> 01:06:36,440
Speaker 1: incompetent testimony, which he absolutely had been. A three judge

1140
01:06:36,440 --> 01:06:40,400
Speaker 1: court reviewed the evidence and agreed unanimously. In particular, they

1141
01:06:40,400 --> 01:06:43,840
Speaker 1: found that only a biopsy could accurately diagnosed cancer. A

1142
01:06:43,960 --> 01:06:47,400
Speaker 1: random dude's opinion that something was probably cancer was not

1143
01:06:47,520 --> 01:06:50,880
Speaker 1: a real diagnosis. They chided Judge at Wolf for being

1144
01:06:51,200 --> 01:06:53,760
Speaker 1: so blind and deaf as to fail to see here

1145
01:06:53,760 --> 01:06:56,720
Speaker 1: and understand the important effect of such matters on general

1146
01:06:56,760 --> 01:07:00,760
Speaker 1: public knowledge and acceptance. At Will was required to institute

1147
01:07:00,800 --> 01:07:04,200
Speaker 1: the injunction, but before it went into effect, Hawksye appealed

1148
01:07:04,200 --> 01:07:06,720
Speaker 1: to the Supreme Court. They refused to hear the case,

1149
01:07:06,920 --> 01:07:09,160
Speaker 1: so Hawksy went around them and had does attorney send

1150
01:07:09,160 --> 01:07:12,880
Speaker 1: a suggestion to Judge Atwell. They very nicely proposed that

1151
01:07:12,920 --> 01:07:15,720
Speaker 1: instead of banning him from shipping his internal medicines across

1152
01:07:15,760 --> 01:07:19,720
Speaker 1: state lines, the injunction should just ban shipment unless the

1153
01:07:19,800 --> 01:07:22,320
Speaker 1: drugs were labeled to show that there was quote a

1154
01:07:22,440 --> 01:07:28,720
Speaker 1: conflict of medical opinion concerning their curative claims. It's that's

1155
01:07:28,800 --> 01:07:35,880
Speaker 1: modern ship right there. Yeah, he's a genius. You're not wrong,

1156
01:07:35,920 --> 01:07:41,000
Speaker 1: but you're wrong. Yeah, this is that is basically how

1157
01:07:41,040 --> 01:07:44,560
Speaker 1: most modern quacks get away with selling nonsense labeled as

1158
01:07:44,560 --> 01:07:48,080
Speaker 1: medicine today. And it's ironic to me that it actually

1159
01:07:48,200 --> 01:07:51,400
Speaker 1: didn't work in the early nineteen fifties. We were just

1160
01:07:51,480 --> 01:07:54,360
Speaker 1: slightly less stupid about these sorts of things. So after

1161
01:07:54,400 --> 01:07:57,200
Speaker 1: a bunch more legal slap fighting, the original injunction was

1162
01:07:57,320 --> 01:08:00,919
Speaker 1: finally granted in in nineteen fifty three. It went into

1163
01:08:00,920 --> 01:08:03,720
Speaker 1: effect in nineteen fifty four after one more last ditch

1164
01:08:03,720 --> 01:08:07,200
Speaker 1: appeal by Hoxey. He could no longer ship his medicine

1165
01:08:07,240 --> 01:08:10,080
Speaker 1: across state lines, but he was still allowed to practice

1166
01:08:10,080 --> 01:08:13,080
Speaker 1: in Dallas, and this was not exactly a small business.

1167
01:08:13,320 --> 01:08:16,639
Speaker 1: In nineteen fifty six, his gross annual income was estimated

1168
01:08:16,640 --> 01:08:19,960
Speaker 1: at one point five million dollars, and he saw more

1169
01:08:20,000 --> 01:08:24,840
Speaker 1: than eight thousand patients that year. Now since, yeah, it's

1170
01:08:24,840 --> 01:08:33,000
Speaker 1: too many, eight it's so many. That's yeah, it's cool,

1171
01:08:32,320 --> 01:08:37,280
Speaker 1: it is really, it's it's good. It's good in it rules,

1172
01:08:37,479 --> 01:08:43,840
Speaker 1: it's God. We're all doomed. We are doomed, Billy, we

1173
01:08:43,920 --> 01:08:49,080
Speaker 1: are doomed. Yeah. So, since he could no longer ship

1174
01:08:49,120 --> 01:08:51,760
Speaker 1: out of state, he launched a massive advertising campaign to

1175
01:08:51,760 --> 01:08:55,120
Speaker 1: convince Americans to travel to Lovely Dallas for their cancer treatment.

1176
01:08:55,520 --> 01:08:59,120
Speaker 1: He used passages from the trial testimony as advertisements, publishing

1177
01:08:59,160 --> 01:09:02,519
Speaker 1: them in popular magazines. He hired shady doctors from around

1178
01:09:02,520 --> 01:09:04,800
Speaker 1: the country, a mix of quacks and real doctors who

1179
01:09:04,840 --> 01:09:07,320
Speaker 1: needed money, and he got positive quotes from them, which

1180
01:09:07,320 --> 01:09:11,080
Speaker 1: he also published. Haxey embarked in a nationwide lecture campaign,

1181
01:09:11,240 --> 01:09:14,360
Speaker 1: applying audiences with lines like this, there's only one way

1182
01:09:14,360 --> 01:09:16,680
Speaker 1: to'll ever close that Haxey clinic, and that's to put

1183
01:09:16,680 --> 01:09:22,880
Speaker 1: a militia around it. Yeah, it's amazing, it's amazing. He

1184
01:09:23,000 --> 01:09:25,240
Speaker 1: was so made for the twenty first century. He would

1185
01:09:25,240 --> 01:09:29,840
Speaker 1: have done incredible on Facebook. Oh my god, he he

1186
01:09:29,880 --> 01:09:34,000
Speaker 1: would have been fucking Donald Trump's like, um, uh fucking

1187
01:09:34,040 --> 01:09:37,400
Speaker 1: what do you call the attorney general or not attorney general? Um,

1188
01:09:37,880 --> 01:09:43,800
Speaker 1: the medical one. Surgeon general's face would be on cigarette.

1189
01:09:42,680 --> 01:09:49,200
Speaker 1: These are the good cigarettes because I get a cut exactly.

1190
01:09:49,240 --> 01:09:53,480
Speaker 1: They're called half sticks. Yeah. Hoxey also hired a ghostwriter

1191
01:09:53,560 --> 01:09:57,280
Speaker 1: to publish his autobiography with a wonderful title, you don't

1192
01:09:57,360 --> 01:10:00,040
Speaker 1: have to Die. That is a good title. That's a

1193
01:10:00,040 --> 01:10:03,320
Speaker 1: good title because a lot of people are terrified of that. Yeah,

1194
01:10:03,400 --> 01:10:06,560
Speaker 1: it's a great title. Now, this the publication of this

1195
01:10:06,600 --> 01:10:09,000
Speaker 1: book in six is when he started claiming that his

1196
01:10:09,080 --> 01:10:11,320
Speaker 1: grandfather had come up with the herbal mixture at the

1197
01:10:11,360 --> 01:10:13,759
Speaker 1: center of his treatment. This is also when he started

1198
01:10:13,760 --> 01:10:16,479
Speaker 1: denying that his father, who had died of cancer, had

1199
01:10:16,560 --> 01:10:19,360
Speaker 1: died of cancer. Instead, he began to claim that the

1200
01:10:19,400 --> 01:10:21,840
Speaker 1: a m A Had written out a fake death certificate

1201
01:10:21,840 --> 01:10:23,720
Speaker 1: to hide the fact that his dad had really just

1202
01:10:23,800 --> 01:10:32,200
Speaker 1: died of an infection. Yeah, there layers. The battle he

1203
01:10:32,280 --> 01:10:35,719
Speaker 1: was waging against mainstream real medicine was at the center

1204
01:10:35,800 --> 01:10:38,559
Speaker 1: of everything Harry Hawksy did. He claimed that his father's

1205
01:10:38,600 --> 01:10:41,400
Speaker 1: deathbed handover of the recipe for his magical Sath had

1206
01:10:41,400 --> 01:10:45,040
Speaker 1: included the warning they will persecute you, slander you, and

1207
01:10:45,080 --> 01:10:47,759
Speaker 1: try to drive you off the face of the earth,

1208
01:10:48,320 --> 01:10:52,280
Speaker 1: and excluding the word slander, this would wind up being true.

1209
01:10:53,120 --> 01:10:55,840
Speaker 1: And in Part two we will talk about how Harry

1210
01:10:55,880 --> 01:10:58,880
Speaker 1: Hawksy was finally driven off the face of the earth,

1211
01:10:58,960 --> 01:11:01,679
Speaker 1: or at least off the face of the United States.

1212
01:11:01,720 --> 01:11:04,160
Speaker 1: Because Billy, I'm gonna give you one hint as to

1213
01:11:04,160 --> 01:11:09,679
Speaker 1: where tomorrow's episodes going. Is it south of the border

1214
01:11:10,680 --> 01:11:17,599
Speaker 1: down Mexico Way. It's It's it's where it has to end.

1215
01:11:18,400 --> 01:11:22,559
Speaker 1: It's the only place that could go. Once I once

1216
01:11:22,600 --> 01:11:24,920
Speaker 1: I stow before I even knew where this ended. When

1217
01:11:24,920 --> 01:11:27,800
Speaker 1: I read fake Cancer here, I said, we're probably gonna

1218
01:11:27,800 --> 01:11:32,840
Speaker 1: wind up in Rosarto at some point of the town.

1219
01:11:32,880 --> 01:11:35,280
Speaker 1: I was like, there's a town. There's a couple of them.

1220
01:11:35,360 --> 01:11:37,800
Speaker 1: You know. The whole Baja Peninsula is a great place

1221
01:11:37,840 --> 01:11:42,679
Speaker 1: to do that work. It's it is. It's a great

1222
01:11:42,720 --> 01:11:45,320
Speaker 1: I love it. I love it, But it's it is

1223
01:11:45,360 --> 01:11:50,880
Speaker 1: ironic to me that we have referenced for a show

1224
01:11:51,120 --> 01:11:54,599
Speaker 1: with the the goal that our show has of talking

1225
01:11:54,640 --> 01:11:57,160
Speaker 1: about the worst people in all of history. The single

1226
01:11:57,240 --> 01:12:01,400
Speaker 1: town most commonly referenced in the show is not Berlin,

1227
01:12:02,000 --> 01:12:05,479
Speaker 1: it's not Moscow, it's not even Washington, d C. It's

1228
01:12:05,520 --> 01:12:13,720
Speaker 1: fucking Tijuana. Yes, it's so good, but this is the

1229
01:12:13,800 --> 01:12:15,920
Speaker 1: end of the episode. Billy, you got some plug doubles

1230
01:12:15,920 --> 01:12:20,240
Speaker 1: to plug? Yes? When is this coming out? God only knows. Okay,

1231
01:12:20,320 --> 01:12:24,160
Speaker 1: I just go to I'm touring a bunch uh b

1232
01:12:24,479 --> 01:12:27,160
Speaker 1: w D tour dot com. I'll be in I'm gonna

1233
01:12:27,200 --> 01:12:30,760
Speaker 1: guest start of March probably maybe okay, perfect or maybe

1234
01:12:30,800 --> 01:12:36,479
Speaker 1: the end of February Tulsa. Uh, I'll be in Wisha, Tulsa,

1235
01:12:36,520 --> 01:12:42,720
Speaker 1: Oklahoma City, Nashville, Seattle again in April. Um, just go

1236
01:12:42,840 --> 01:12:45,160
Speaker 1: to be w D tour dot com. Um, go to

1237
01:12:45,240 --> 01:12:50,000
Speaker 1: be w D tour dot com. Thanks guys, And you

1238
01:12:50,040 --> 01:12:54,040
Speaker 1: can find me on the internet somewhere, presumably, but the

1239
01:12:54,320 --> 01:12:58,479
Speaker 1: secrets have been lost to time. That's the episode. You

1240
01:12:58,520 --> 01:13:01,160
Speaker 1: can actually find him at I right, okay on Twitter.

1241
01:13:01,320 --> 01:13:06,080
Speaker 1: You can find us at Bastard's Pot on Twitter and Instagram.

1242
01:13:06,080 --> 01:13:09,839
Speaker 1: We have a tea public store. Robert also co hosts

1243
01:13:10,479 --> 01:13:15,200
Speaker 1: Worst Year Ever with Katie Stole and Cody Johnston and Uh,

1244
01:13:15,479 --> 01:13:19,679
Speaker 1: if you got your tickets to see Billy and Robert

1245
01:13:19,760 --> 01:13:26,679
Speaker 1: Dynasty Typewriter on MARCHI yeah, yep, and uh you know, um,

1246
01:13:26,720 --> 01:13:28,720
Speaker 1: if you want to take to Twitter to give me

1247
01:13:28,760 --> 01:13:31,360
Speaker 1: ship for making Sophie do all the work at the

1248
01:13:31,400 --> 01:13:34,040
Speaker 1: end of the episode, that's fair. But I'm not going

1249
01:13:34,080 --> 01:13:36,920
Speaker 1: to change my ways, never