WEBVTT - School of Golf Architecture: Routing with Jeff Mingay, Part 2 0:00:00.640 --> 0:00:03.400 This episode of the School of Golf Architecture is brought 0:00:03.440 --> 0:00:06.520 to you by our friends over at b Dradty. So 0:00:06.680 --> 0:00:09.960 just like the best golf architects, b Drotty is all 0:00:10.039 --> 0:00:13.640 about the details, details that most companies choose to overlook. 0:00:14.200 --> 0:00:16.520 Take the Russell quarter Zip, which is my go to 0:00:16.640 --> 0:00:19.400 for this time of year. The front pouch is sewn 0:00:19.520 --> 0:00:21.920 into the garment, not just sort of put on top, 0:00:22.120 --> 0:00:25.760 and that allows for a slimmer, less bulky fit. If 0:00:25.760 --> 0:00:27.600 you're a fan of great golf courses, I think you'll 0:00:27.600 --> 0:00:31.080 appreciate b Draddy's devotion to smart design and how they 0:00:31.120 --> 0:00:34.440 really think through every aspect of their product. Shop the 0:00:34.640 --> 0:00:37.800 entire b Droddy line at bdradty dot com and receive 0:00:37.880 --> 0:00:41.280 twenty five percent off with our exclusive discount code TFE 0:00:41.520 --> 0:00:46.560 twenty five. That's b Dradty dot Com code TFE two five. 0:00:47.120 --> 0:00:50.680 The fried egg requires a different technique. What you need 0:00:50.720 --> 0:00:53.840 to do is actually square the face so it'll dig 0:00:53.920 --> 0:00:57.520 down underneath that bad lie and propel that ball right 0:00:57.560 --> 0:00:58.280 out onto the green. 0:00:59.240 --> 0:00:59.760 Here's the take. 0:01:00.000 --> 0:01:02.280 Saying out of a buried lion of bunker is completely 0:01:02.360 --> 0:01:04.760 different than playing out of a night and clean lion. 0:01:04.840 --> 0:01:05.800 A greenside bunker. 0:01:06.720 --> 0:01:09.000 You'd need to be aggressive on any show. Weather it's 0:01:09.040 --> 0:01:11.160 sitting cleanly for its Friday Egg. 0:01:11.720 --> 0:01:15.200 Well, we've all faithed it. The dreaded fried egg not 0:01:15.280 --> 0:01:17.360 to be cleared, though it's actually a pretty easy shot 0:01:17.440 --> 0:01:27.000 to hit. Welcome back to the School of golf architecture 0:01:27.080 --> 0:01:29.759 on the Frida Egg podcast and to the second part 0:01:29.760 --> 0:01:33.319 of my discussion with architect Jeff man Gay about golf 0:01:33.360 --> 0:01:37.440 course routing. I'm Garrett Morrison. Now i'd recommend that you 0:01:37.480 --> 0:01:40.240 go back and listen to part one if you haven't already. 0:01:40.680 --> 0:01:43.039 That episode lays a lot of groundwork for what we 0:01:43.120 --> 0:01:47.560 discuss in this one, But just to recap, we defined 0:01:47.640 --> 0:01:50.520 routing as the way in which architects lay out golf 0:01:50.520 --> 0:01:53.440 holes on the land, or, in other words, the positions 0:01:53.480 --> 0:01:57.040 they choose for each team and each green. Jeff and 0:01:57.120 --> 0:01:59.600 I identified three main aspects of a routing that any 0:01:59.600 --> 0:02:04.600 golfer can see and understand while playing around. One, whether 0:02:04.640 --> 0:02:08.680 the walks between greens and teas make sense. Two, whether 0:02:08.720 --> 0:02:11.679 the holes use the best pre existing features of the property. 0:02:12.320 --> 0:02:15.200 In Three, whether the routing has a sense of drama 0:02:15.520 --> 0:02:19.799 from beginning to middle to end. In this episode, Jeff 0:02:19.840 --> 0:02:22.480 and I apply these criteria to a few different well 0:02:22.520 --> 0:02:25.600 known routings. This is, first of all, a way of 0:02:25.639 --> 0:02:28.640 demonstrating how you can read the routing of any given 0:02:28.680 --> 0:02:31.760 golf course, but it's also an opportunity to explore the 0:02:31.800 --> 0:02:35.680 evolution of routing through history. How have methods of routing 0:02:35.720 --> 0:02:39.119 golf courses changed over time and does the future hold 0:02:39.160 --> 0:02:48.040 any new possibilities. Starting with the Old Course, we've talked 0:02:48.040 --> 0:02:50.480 about some of the inherent flaws of the out and 0:02:50.520 --> 0:02:53.200 back routing in the sense that it doesn't provide much 0:02:53.320 --> 0:02:57.079 variety in the relationship of the holes to the wind. 0:02:57.760 --> 0:02:59.720 But what do you think are some of the merits 0:02:59.760 --> 0:03:02.079 of the out and back routing? You know, just what 0:03:02.360 --> 0:03:03.880 do you what do you think of that as as 0:03:03.919 --> 0:03:06.320 an example of how to rout a golf course. 0:03:06.960 --> 0:03:10.079 Well, it's a bit of a coincidence that we can 0:03:10.240 --> 0:03:14.040 criticize the out and back routing of the Old course, 0:03:14.600 --> 0:03:17.120 mostly because of the lack of variety in terms of 0:03:17.160 --> 0:03:19.440 how how the course tacks into the. 0:03:19.440 --> 0:03:21.960 Wind and away from the wind. But I'll tell you what. 0:03:22.280 --> 0:03:25.600 The best thing about that out and back routing is. 0:03:25.520 --> 0:03:28.480 That it allows the golf course to pretty easily be 0:03:28.560 --> 0:03:33.919 played reversible, which is something that I can't believe hasn't 0:03:34.360 --> 0:03:38.720 gotten more traction in the last hundred years of golf architecture, 0:03:39.280 --> 0:03:42.680 you know, we I mean, the benefits of having one 0:03:42.760 --> 0:03:46.240 golf course that can play two ways are pretty obvious, right, 0:03:46.360 --> 0:03:49.320 huge benefits the ownership they get to basically get two 0:03:49.360 --> 0:03:52.400 courses for the price of one. They also get two 0:03:52.440 --> 0:03:55.280 courses that can be maintained for the price of one, 0:03:55.680 --> 0:03:58.560 and the environmental benefits that come along with that as well. 0:03:58.680 --> 0:04:01.040 You know, you got thirty six holes basically being maintained 0:04:01.080 --> 0:04:05.680 as eighteen. It's a it's a it's a wonderful concept 0:04:05.720 --> 0:04:08.160 that again, I mean there's a few golf courses have 0:04:08.240 --> 0:04:11.600 been the loop. I think Frank Pont's done to at 0:04:11.680 --> 0:04:15.520 least one or two, and in Europe. It just the 0:04:15.600 --> 0:04:19.080 concept makes so much sense, yet it's been done so 0:04:19.600 --> 0:04:24.400 few times to this point. It's it's it's puzzling to me. 0:04:24.680 --> 0:04:27.839 I mean, it takes a client that understands the concept. 0:04:28.360 --> 0:04:30.800 It takes the correct piece of ground too. You know, 0:04:30.880 --> 0:04:33.720 you're on a piece of ground that's hilly, it's going 0:04:33.760 --> 0:04:35.800 to be pretty difficult to find find a way to 0:04:36.160 --> 0:04:39.360 get it to play in reverse rele you know, comparatively, 0:04:39.680 --> 0:04:41.640 when you look at a piece of ground like Saint Andrew's, 0:04:41.680 --> 0:04:46.720 it's it's it's basically flat and rumpled. Although I hear 0:04:46.760 --> 0:04:49.760 Sylvie's Ranch works pretty good and there's some pretty hilly, 0:04:49.960 --> 0:04:51.000 hilly spots there. 0:04:51.839 --> 0:04:54.000 You were just there, right, yeah, I was just there. 0:04:54.120 --> 0:04:54.320 Yeah. 0:04:54.480 --> 0:04:56.600 And I'd love to talk about that one later as 0:04:56.640 --> 0:04:59.840 an example of along alongside the loop, as an example 0:04:59.839 --> 0:05:02.360 of what might be next in routing. But Sylvie's Valley 0:05:02.440 --> 0:05:05.320 Ranch certainly has a very clever approach to the reversible 0:05:05.400 --> 0:05:09.400 routing in that it has twenty seven greens and not 0:05:09.480 --> 0:05:11.920 all the greens are in play every day. But it 0:05:11.960 --> 0:05:15.000 makes the routing work on a very hilly piece of property, 0:05:15.800 --> 0:05:18.240 which is which is quite an accomplishment. And you know, 0:05:18.279 --> 0:05:20.680 one of the things that makes the reversible routing at 0:05:20.720 --> 0:05:23.040 the Old Course work is that, you know, it's a 0:05:23.160 --> 0:05:26.400 rumpled piece of land, but it's not a hilly piece 0:05:26.440 --> 0:05:29.400 of land, right, you're not. You don't have to go 0:05:29.560 --> 0:05:32.240 back up a big hill that you've gone down the 0:05:32.320 --> 0:05:37.080 day before. Now, Okay, So there's this wacky theory I 0:05:37.120 --> 0:05:39.840 have about about the Old Course routing as it relates 0:05:39.880 --> 0:05:43.320 to what we are discussing in the you know, the 0:05:43.400 --> 0:05:47.119 storytelling or the drama aspects of routing a golf course. 0:05:47.680 --> 0:05:50.400 You know, to me, that old course routing is very 0:05:50.560 --> 0:05:54.960 elemental and primal in a way. You start from the 0:05:55.000 --> 0:05:59.400 town basically, and you can just imagine the initial golfers 0:05:59.440 --> 0:06:02.760 there saying, okay, we start here because this is where 0:06:02.760 --> 0:06:05.400 we are. This is where the town is, and where 0:06:05.520 --> 0:06:08.719 we're gonna head just straight out to uh to the 0:06:09.120 --> 0:06:11.560 river Eden, you know, that's where. That's where we're gonna 0:06:11.560 --> 0:06:13.600 head out to. We're gonna go out there, and then 0:06:13.600 --> 0:06:15.279 once we get there, we're going to kind of hang 0:06:15.320 --> 0:06:17.520 out there for a second. Right, that's the Shepherd's Crook 0:06:17.560 --> 0:06:19.359 part of the routing. We're gonna hang out in this 0:06:19.480 --> 0:06:21.800 nice little gathering spot because this seems like a nice 0:06:21.800 --> 0:06:23.599 place to be. We've gotten here, we want to spend 0:06:23.640 --> 0:06:25.719 a little bit of time here, and then we're gonna 0:06:25.720 --> 0:06:28.960 go back. We're going to return home. There is a 0:06:29.240 --> 0:06:32.040 natural sense of drama to me about that routing. That's 0:06:32.080 --> 0:06:36.000 basically the plot of the Hobbit right there and back again. 0:06:36.600 --> 0:06:38.320 And and so I want, I wonder if it feels 0:06:38.360 --> 0:06:40.760 that way to you when when you're playing the Old Course. 0:06:40.800 --> 0:06:42.480 That there's a there's a sense that you're taking it 0:06:42.520 --> 0:06:45.159 a journey out to something, staying there for a bit 0:06:45.240 --> 0:06:46.200 and then coming back. 0:06:46.760 --> 0:06:48.360 Yeah, that's it. 0:06:48.480 --> 0:06:51.560 I'm not sure I've heard to describe exactly that way, 0:06:51.600 --> 0:06:56.559 but I agree, and I love that description. I also 0:06:56.720 --> 0:06:59.400 believe that that's got to be true, right, that the 0:06:59.440 --> 0:07:02.000 other thing that is piece of lynx Land, you know, 0:07:02.120 --> 0:07:06.159 it is a thin strip that, just as you just described, 0:07:06.320 --> 0:07:09.440 took off from town, stopped at the river and came back. 0:07:10.120 --> 0:07:13.920 And it'd be interesting, I mean, this is completely impossible, 0:07:13.960 --> 0:07:15.720 but it would certainly be interesting to go back in 0:07:15.800 --> 0:07:20.240 time and see who decided to put the quote unquote 0:07:20.320 --> 0:07:24.640 greens where they went and where they are today. Right, 0:07:24.680 --> 0:07:27.000 somebody had to go out there and say, well, this 0:07:27.080 --> 0:07:30.320 is a reasonably flat spot here where we can cut 0:07:30.320 --> 0:07:34.920 the hole in the ground and putt So my suspicion 0:07:35.040 --> 0:07:38.119 and I should go back and read Scott McPherson's book 0:07:38.160 --> 0:07:39.480 on the on the evolution of. 0:07:39.400 --> 0:07:41.400 The Old Course to see if this is right or wrong. 0:07:41.440 --> 0:07:45.240 But twenty two holes existed at the Old Course way 0:07:45.240 --> 0:07:47.960 back when it first started. Somebody had to have gone 0:07:47.960 --> 0:07:51.680 out there and picked those, you know, eleven sites or 0:07:51.720 --> 0:07:54.000 whatever it was where they were going to try to 0:07:54.040 --> 0:07:57.160 get to, you know, to to finally arrive with those 0:07:57.200 --> 0:07:59.520 twenty two holes. A guy you from town out to 0:07:59.600 --> 0:08:02.920 the river back. That's golf architecture routing. 0:08:04.400 --> 0:08:06.600 And you have to think that it was by committee 0:08:06.840 --> 0:08:09.920 and that it was gradual, you know, and that's maybe 0:08:09.920 --> 0:08:12.600 the best way to do it. You know, they've played 0:08:12.600 --> 0:08:14.920 over that little piece of land a bunch of times 0:08:14.960 --> 0:08:17.720 and eventually figured out where the best places were to 0:08:17.960 --> 0:08:18.600 cut the holes. 0:08:18.960 --> 0:08:21.560 Yeah, I mean, I either haven't thought about it this 0:08:21.640 --> 0:08:23.440 way or haven't thought about it this way in a 0:08:23.440 --> 0:08:23.960 long time. 0:08:24.040 --> 0:08:26.200 But essentially the evolution of the. 0:08:26.240 --> 0:08:30.040 Old course definitely involved picking those sites that were the 0:08:30.080 --> 0:08:34.760 best green sites, which is what golf architecture. 0:08:34.200 --> 0:08:35.240 Still begins with. 0:08:35.960 --> 0:08:37.840 You get out on a raw piece of ground. I mean, 0:08:37.920 --> 0:08:40.600 the first thing we do as designers is start to 0:08:40.600 --> 0:08:43.679 look at where's the best places to put the greens, 0:08:44.120 --> 0:08:45.440 and the questions are. 0:08:46.000 --> 0:08:49.559 Which are the most beautiful sites, Which sites will. 0:08:49.440 --> 0:08:51.839 Allow you to connect them in a way that you're 0:08:51.840 --> 0:08:53.880 going to end up with the best variety of holes, 0:08:54.280 --> 0:08:59.040 both looks, distances, everything that lends to variety, But most 0:08:59.040 --> 0:09:01.559 of all, you're looking for places where you're going to 0:09:01.679 --> 0:09:04.000 relatively easily build a green. 0:09:04.559 --> 0:09:06.000 You know, you don't want to build a green. 0:09:05.920 --> 0:09:10.240 On a hills on a hillsite that's forty five degrees slope, 0:09:11.000 --> 0:09:13.520 it's just hard to build a green there, and it 0:09:13.600 --> 0:09:17.920 takes a lot of fill and it's more expensive. So again, 0:09:18.120 --> 0:09:22.000 looking for those sites that are naturally greens or require 0:09:22.640 --> 0:09:25.120 comparatively minimal work to create. 0:09:24.800 --> 0:09:26.680 A green is what we're looking for. 0:09:27.440 --> 0:09:30.120 And getting back to the old course, I'm sure that 0:09:30.320 --> 0:09:32.439 hundreds of years ago, that's exactly what they were doing. 0:09:32.480 --> 0:09:34.920 I mean, they didn't have much equipment out there to 0:09:34.960 --> 0:09:37.280 manipulate things, so they were looking at spots. 0:09:36.920 --> 0:09:39.360 It literally made sense to be a putting green. 0:09:40.559 --> 0:09:42.880 So now let's go to the next stage of the 0:09:42.920 --> 0:09:45.440 evolution of routing a golf course, which I think is 0:09:45.480 --> 0:09:50.319 represented well by Merefield, which feels a lot more intentional 0:09:50.600 --> 0:09:53.040 in the way that it's routed as opposed to kind 0:09:53.080 --> 0:09:56.319 of natural and by committee. It feels like the routing 0:09:56.360 --> 0:10:00.560 at Merefield was very expertly done. Did you talk about 0:10:00.559 --> 0:10:02.760 the Merefield routing a little bit and what makes it 0:10:02.840 --> 0:10:07.400 so kind of historically important, especially as compared to the 0:10:07.440 --> 0:10:10.000 out and back routings that we've been talking about. 0:10:10.520 --> 0:10:13.200 Yeah, when Harry Gold showed up at Mierfield, there was 0:10:13.240 --> 0:10:16.360 a pretty rudimentary, I guess you'd say, in comparison, a 0:10:16.440 --> 0:10:21.360 rudimentary old Tom Morris course there. And like Saint Andrew's 0:10:21.440 --> 0:10:24.959 and a number of the early links, it had more 0:10:24.960 --> 0:10:28.760 of an out and back, not not at vary as 0:10:28.880 --> 0:10:31.640 varied a routing as you see at Mierfield today. And 0:10:31.679 --> 0:10:35.079 that's what the lesson that Mierfield taught in the early 0:10:35.200 --> 0:10:38.800 days of routing golf courses is how to lay out 0:10:38.840 --> 0:10:42.840 holes again with with that wind consideration in mind, where's 0:10:42.880 --> 0:10:45.640 the prevailing wind? You know, what does it do a 0:10:45.679 --> 0:10:48.680 majority of the time, And how can we get these 0:10:48.720 --> 0:10:54.240 holes to confront that wind at varying angles, hole after 0:10:54.280 --> 0:10:58.040 hole after hole. The only two holes in Deerfield that 0:10:58.200 --> 0:11:02.679 run consecutive in the same direction on the compass are 0:11:02.760 --> 0:11:06.760 four and five. Otherwise you play each hole with the 0:11:06.800 --> 0:11:07.960 wind coming at. 0:11:07.840 --> 0:11:08.960 You from a different angle. 0:11:09.679 --> 0:11:12.000 And you know, over the years there's been a lot 0:11:12.000 --> 0:11:16.360 of a lot of discussion about that routing in golf 0:11:16.480 --> 0:11:20.920 architecture circles for that reason, and when where and when 0:11:20.960 --> 0:11:24.199 it's possible, you know, a good routing. 0:11:23.960 --> 0:11:26.880 Is going to turn you in into different direction from 0:11:26.920 --> 0:11:27.840 hole to hole to hole. 0:11:28.720 --> 0:11:31.040 So just to be clear about what the Mirfield routing 0:11:31.240 --> 0:11:33.880 is for those who are unfamiliar with it, the front 0:11:33.960 --> 0:11:38.400 nine goes around the perimeter of the property and the 0:11:38.440 --> 0:11:43.240 back nine basically is set within the front nine, and 0:11:43.280 --> 0:11:46.200 so you've got these these kind of you know, almost 0:11:46.240 --> 0:11:49.080 concentric circles. Though of course the holes, especially on the 0:11:49.120 --> 0:11:52.720 back nine, often reverse in order to fit in. But 0:11:52.920 --> 0:11:55.280 you can imagine it as as kind of you know, 0:11:55.480 --> 0:11:59.800 outer and inner routing. And you know, we've seen architects 0:11:59.840 --> 0:12:02.319 basely adapt that routing to a number of different sites. 0:12:02.360 --> 0:12:04.320 I know that Ross did it a lot, and tilling 0:12:04.320 --> 0:12:07.800 Hast especially did it quite frequently. And it's and it's 0:12:07.880 --> 0:12:10.160 very clever because you've got those returning nines and you 0:12:10.280 --> 0:12:13.160 and you've got the different relationships to the wind, and 0:12:13.200 --> 0:12:17.480 you're constantly kind of revisiting sections of the property that 0:12:17.520 --> 0:12:20.040 you've seen before, but you're you're coming at them from 0:12:20.080 --> 0:12:26.120 a different direction. How much better can routing get from there? Honestly, No, that's. 0:12:25.920 --> 0:12:28.320 Still you know, that still ranks up there as one 0:12:28.400 --> 0:12:31.040 one of the ones you're trying to be inspired by 0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:31.520 for sure. 0:12:32.440 --> 0:12:35.320 So let's talk a little bit about Cypress Point. What 0:12:35.559 --> 0:12:37.679 a lot of people are familiar with the basics of 0:12:37.679 --> 0:12:41.160 that routing, but what makes it special and how does 0:12:41.200 --> 0:12:43.360 it kind of fit into some of the principles of 0:12:44.120 --> 0:12:45.840 routing that we've been talking about. 0:12:46.120 --> 0:12:48.600 Well, I think the biggest thing with Cyprus Point is 0:12:48.640 --> 0:12:52.960 I really believe that that Alistair mackenzie was truly trying 0:12:53.000 --> 0:12:56.160 to celebrate that really one of a kind site. 0:12:56.840 --> 0:12:58.960 You know, you're dealing with dunes. 0:12:58.720 --> 0:13:03.760 Beautiful cypress for coastal bluffs. He does a wonderful job, 0:13:04.440 --> 0:13:08.439 starting the golf course in the dunes, taking into the forest, 0:13:08.800 --> 0:13:10.760 leaving the forest back into. 0:13:10.480 --> 0:13:14.640 The dunes, one more trip to the forest, back into. 0:13:14.400 --> 0:13:18.640 The dunes, and then eventually coming down thirteen and fourteen 0:13:19.240 --> 0:13:22.640 you see the Pacific Ocean. It's getting closer and closer. 0:13:23.440 --> 0:13:27.080 And then another one of those wonderful little walks and golf. 0:13:27.200 --> 0:13:30.400 You know, we talk about connectivity and golf courses, you 0:13:30.440 --> 0:13:33.520 wouldn't say that fourteen Green and fifteen Tea are very 0:13:33.520 --> 0:13:36.199 well connected. You get a long walk, you get across 0:13:36.400 --> 0:13:37.839 what might be one of the most you know, the 0:13:37.920 --> 0:13:41.640 busiest roads in America these days, but the walker. Once 0:13:41.679 --> 0:13:45.200 you get across the road onto the ocean side, the 0:13:45.240 --> 0:13:47.680 little trail that takes you over to fifteen T and 0:13:47.880 --> 0:13:51.080 turn the corner and see that hole for the first time. 0:13:52.000 --> 0:13:54.640 It's one of the most exhilarating experiences. And I'm sure 0:13:54.679 --> 0:14:00.000 that trail was cut purposefully to wait for that review, 0:14:00.440 --> 0:14:02.040 you know, as long as they could for you to 0:14:02.080 --> 0:14:05.800 turn the corner and get on fifteen T and then 0:14:05.840 --> 0:14:09.760 finally playing playing the coastal holes at Cypress as the 0:14:09.800 --> 0:14:13.520 big conclusion, I'm not sure it gets much better, and 0:14:14.200 --> 0:14:16.679 people have people complain about the eighteenth tool, you know. 0:14:17.200 --> 0:14:19.120 I was reading about that the other day again. I 0:14:19.240 --> 0:14:22.280 came across it that someone had said that Cyprus points 0:14:22.320 --> 0:14:25.520 the best seventeen whole course in the world because eighteen 0:14:25.640 --> 0:14:28.760 turns you around from the ocean and takes you through 0:14:28.800 --> 0:14:31.680 the trees again back up to the clubhouse. I don't 0:14:31.920 --> 0:14:34.680 agree with that. I think eighteen is actually one of 0:14:34.720 --> 0:14:37.080 the most unique golf holes you'll ever see in your 0:14:37.200 --> 0:14:41.320 entire life. Again, as part celebrating that wonderful property, I 0:14:41.360 --> 0:14:44.200 think I think the doctor wanted to take you through 0:14:44.240 --> 0:14:47.960 those beautiful cypress trees. I mean, these cypress trees at 0:14:47.960 --> 0:14:52.280 Cyprus Point are some of the most beautiful natural things 0:14:52.320 --> 0:14:55.920 you'll let's see anywhere, and I think his eighteenth hole 0:14:55.960 --> 0:14:57.400 there celebrates that. 0:14:58.120 --> 0:15:00.360 Yeah, it definitely features those I mean, and there's so 0:15:00.440 --> 0:15:02.880 much to talk about here. For one thing, you know, 0:15:03.040 --> 0:15:05.360 I should mention that there is some doubt as to 0:15:05.440 --> 0:15:09.320 whether SETH Rayner or Alistair McKenzie is most responsible for 0:15:09.360 --> 0:15:12.600 the routing at Cypress Point. You know, obviously McKenzie is 0:15:12.640 --> 0:15:17.080 the architect of record, but there is an ongoing debate 0:15:17.240 --> 0:15:20.040 about who did the original routing and how much of 0:15:20.040 --> 0:15:23.840 that original routing made it into the to the final 0:15:24.400 --> 0:15:26.760 golf course. We don't need to get into that here. 0:15:26.880 --> 0:15:30.560 That's that's a topic for podcasts by our friends over 0:15:30.720 --> 0:15:33.480 the Society of Golf Historians. I think that's more more 0:15:33.520 --> 0:15:36.960 a subject for Connor Lewis. But in any case, the 0:15:37.320 --> 0:15:40.240 routing of Cyprus Point is so rich and it represents 0:15:40.320 --> 0:15:42.920 all the things we've been talking about. You know, you've 0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:45.480 already talked about the variety of landscapes at Cyprus Point. 0:15:45.520 --> 0:15:47.480 You've got the woods, and you've got the dunes, and 0:15:47.520 --> 0:15:49.960 you've got the ocean, and it's hard to imagine a 0:15:50.040 --> 0:15:53.880 routing using those three places better or with more variety, 0:15:54.000 --> 0:15:57.200 or you know, more different parts of the round. You've 0:15:57.240 --> 0:15:59.520 got the sense of drama, like you talked about going 0:15:59.560 --> 0:16:03.560 out to the ocean at the end and really coming 0:16:03.600 --> 0:16:09.840 to a culmination. There the great connectors between the fourteenth 0:16:09.920 --> 0:16:12.720 Green and the fifteenth Tee and between the fifteenth Green 0:16:12.840 --> 0:16:16.560 and the sixteenth t longish walks, but nobody would want 0:16:16.560 --> 0:16:19.400 those not to be there. And then I think, you know, 0:16:19.480 --> 0:16:23.400 it's a perfect story in many ways because the eighteenth Hole, 0:16:23.960 --> 0:16:26.960 even though it's underrated, as you say, and has many 0:16:27.000 --> 0:16:30.320 things to recommend it, there is a sense of kind 0:16:30.360 --> 0:16:34.040 of calming down from the sixteenth and seventeenth holes. And 0:16:34.080 --> 0:16:36.720 that's how a lot of structure, great stories are structured. 0:16:36.960 --> 0:16:40.320 Where the climax isn't at the very end, The climax 0:16:40.360 --> 0:16:44.800 isn't the last paragraph. The climax comes a few pages earlier. 0:16:45.160 --> 0:16:48.320 And then there's what English teachers will call a den umont. 0:16:48.440 --> 0:16:50.760 There's a there's a calming down and a sense of 0:16:50.840 --> 0:16:53.680 resolution and a sense that okay, now life is going on. 0:16:54.560 --> 0:16:57.040 And I think that the eighteenth Hole at Cyprus Point 0:16:57.080 --> 0:16:59.800 delivers that. One thing we haven't talked about is the 0:16:59.800 --> 0:17:02.720 gathering points at Cyprus Point, which are some of the 0:17:02.760 --> 0:17:05.199 I guess we touched on it briefly earlier, but some 0:17:05.280 --> 0:17:07.199 of the best anywhere, right, I mean, you know that 0:17:07.400 --> 0:17:10.359 there's a couple of really dramatic landforms at Cypress Point 0:17:10.800 --> 0:17:13.439 and a lot of holes. Oh yeah, you're showing me 0:17:13.520 --> 0:17:20.480 right now. I have look at this. So what we're what? What? What? 0:17:20.480 --> 0:17:22.720 What Jeff and I are showing each other right now? 0:17:23.000 --> 0:17:26.119 Are are respective copies of the World Atlas of Golf, 0:17:26.480 --> 0:17:29.480 which we just happened to both have right next to us. 0:17:29.520 --> 0:17:31.600 And we've got the old green cover. We don't have 0:17:31.640 --> 0:17:35.640 that new abomination. We've got we've got the old edition 0:17:35.680 --> 0:17:38.520 of the World Atlas of Golf. So we both had 0:17:38.520 --> 0:17:40.200 that book next to us. It has a great map 0:17:40.240 --> 0:17:44.520 of Cypress Point. Gathering points at Cypress Point are congregation points, 0:17:44.560 --> 0:17:46.960 I think is what you called them. Uh, tell me 0:17:47.000 --> 0:17:49.639 about some of those at Cypress Point and how they work. 0:17:50.080 --> 0:17:53.080 Well. One of the really cool spots at Cyprus And 0:17:53.200 --> 0:17:56.920 it's a really great example of you know, using a 0:17:56.960 --> 0:18:02.080 single natural feature to work off of and into is 0:18:02.119 --> 0:18:07.280 a big duneline that bisects the property where three green 0:18:08.040 --> 0:18:12.320 twelve t or sorry, three green four T eleven green, 0:18:12.400 --> 0:18:17.639 twelve T nine green, ten T six green, and then 0:18:17.720 --> 0:18:19.959 one of the best part of threes ever seven plays 0:18:20.000 --> 0:18:23.800 off of it and eight plays off of it. So 0:18:23.880 --> 0:18:26.520 you're talking about I wish I had a measurement here, 0:18:26.520 --> 0:18:30.600 but you're talking about a single dune ridge that cuts 0:18:30.680 --> 0:18:32.360 through the property. 0:18:32.480 --> 0:18:35.119 I guess would be over on the east side of 0:18:35.160 --> 0:18:36.280 the property. 0:18:36.520 --> 0:18:39.880 You know, far away from the ocean. But to work 0:18:39.960 --> 0:18:44.119 what one, two, three, four, five, six, seventy eight nine 0:18:44.200 --> 0:18:47.720 holes off of a single dune ridge, you know. And again, 0:18:47.800 --> 0:18:51.680 most people who play Cyprus Point, they're enjoying the holes, 0:18:52.200 --> 0:18:55.359 they're not thinking about the fact that McKenzie used that 0:18:55.560 --> 0:18:58.679 one ridge to work that much of the golf course 0:18:58.720 --> 0:19:02.000 off of and onto in such a dramatic fashion. 0:19:02.560 --> 0:19:05.840 And all of those holes are they couldn't be more different. 0:19:05.960 --> 0:19:09.280 And they all use that single natural features as as 0:19:09.320 --> 0:19:11.040 the main feature of the hole. 0:19:11.760 --> 0:19:15.880 Incredible, It's genius and it works practically too, right, You're 0:19:15.880 --> 0:19:17.800 not at no point, you know, when you when you 0:19:18.160 --> 0:19:21.879 jam that many holes around one feature, often you create 0:19:21.920 --> 0:19:25.159 safety problems, you create routing problems where you're you know, 0:19:25.200 --> 0:19:29.159 where there might be weird walks or connectivity issues. But 0:19:29.240 --> 0:19:31.800 there's none of that in these holes. Somehow they all 0:19:31.880 --> 0:19:35.840 work even though they're all congregated around this one place. 0:19:36.359 --> 0:19:39.640 Yeah, it's it's incredible And another great example of that, 0:19:40.320 --> 0:19:43.320 what did we determine congregational routing? 0:19:44.520 --> 0:19:47.439 So you know, there's so many other routings that that 0:19:47.480 --> 0:19:49.960 we could talk about. You know, so far we've talked 0:19:50.000 --> 0:19:52.800 about the old Course, Miarfield, Cyprus Point. These are really 0:19:52.840 --> 0:19:55.760 well known ones. One that I think people aren't as 0:19:55.800 --> 0:19:59.200 familiar with but you are, and that I'm not familiar 0:19:59.240 --> 0:20:02.280 with because I have not into this course, but Highland's 0:20:02.359 --> 0:20:06.600 Lynx and and to me, that's a fascinating sounding routing. 0:20:07.119 --> 0:20:09.360 You've you've touched on a few aspects of it already, 0:20:09.920 --> 0:20:12.480 but could you tell me about that one and what 0:20:12.520 --> 0:20:13.960 you think makes it distinctive? 0:20:14.560 --> 0:20:15.600 Yeah, what makes. 0:20:15.359 --> 0:20:19.399 Island's links most distinctive, again similar to Cypress Point, is 0:20:19.400 --> 0:20:23.440 that is that the golf course traverses three or four 0:20:24.240 --> 0:20:28.320 very distinctive environments and it's actually an out and back routing. 0:20:28.560 --> 0:20:33.320 You know, one leaves the little protop, plays down the peninsula, 0:20:33.720 --> 0:20:35.960 starts out of the ocean, takes you to the forest 0:20:36.000 --> 0:20:37.919 and by the time you get to nine Green, you know, 0:20:38.000 --> 0:20:42.240 you're ten kilometers from where you began. The tenth is 0:20:42.280 --> 0:20:45.160 still out in the in the river valley. Thirteen takes 0:20:45.200 --> 0:20:50.760 you back to the ocean again, just traversing beautifully distinctive landscapes. 0:20:50.800 --> 0:20:54.640 But Stanley Thompson did the same thing that Aliston McKenzie 0:20:54.640 --> 0:20:57.760 did at Cypress Point too. Sure he was celebrating these 0:20:57.800 --> 0:21:02.160 these distinct environments and these beautifulties, but he didn't forget 0:21:02.200 --> 0:21:06.280 about the golf either, And Highland's Links, like Cyper's Point, 0:21:06.440 --> 0:21:08.440 is relentless in terms of the. 0:21:08.440 --> 0:21:11.040 Quality of the holes from the first. 0:21:10.760 --> 0:21:16.440 Tee to the eighteenth green, very distinctive, as beautiful as 0:21:16.480 --> 0:21:19.199 you can get in terms of a natural environment for golf, 0:21:20.240 --> 0:21:24.840 and a very simplistic layout where he really truly did utilize, 0:21:25.520 --> 0:21:29.320 you know, the inherent landscape in the best way possible 0:21:29.320 --> 0:21:32.680 for golf. Set you up to enjoy views of the ocean, 0:21:33.359 --> 0:21:37.800 enjoy views of distant mountains, to play down the fifteenth 0:21:37.800 --> 0:21:41.000