WEBVTT - Testing at the Workplace Might Be More Trouble Than It's Worth for Some Employers 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:03.840 It's Monday, July. I'm Oscar and Mirrors from the Daily 0:00:03.880 --> 0:00:08.080 Dive podcast in Los Angeles, and this is reopening America. 0:00:08.680 --> 0:00:12.240 Today is all about testing. Short of a vaccine, testing 0:00:12.320 --> 0:00:14.280 is the first line of defense and helping limit the 0:00:14.280 --> 0:00:17.040 spread of COVID nineteen. But what will it look like 0:00:17.079 --> 0:00:20.439 when everyone returns to work. Some employers are finding out 0:00:20.440 --> 0:00:23.840 that testing employees is more trouble than it's worth. Issues 0:00:23.880 --> 0:00:27.560 with cost, access, and employee privacy are some of the 0:00:27.600 --> 0:00:31.840 reasons why testing isn't part of back to work plans. Instead, 0:00:32.040 --> 0:00:34.760 employees are in favor of lower cost options like masks, 0:00:34.920 --> 0:00:39.840 hand sanitizer, temperature checks, and symptoms screening. Emma Court, health 0:00:39.880 --> 0:00:43.159 reporter at Bloomberg News, joins us for workplace safety during 0:00:43.200 --> 0:00:46.320 the pandemic. Thanks for joining us, Emma, Thanks for having 0:00:47.120 --> 0:00:50.120 I wanted to talk about workplace safety in the age 0:00:50.159 --> 0:00:53.560 of COVID nineteen. Obviously a lot of places have started 0:00:53.600 --> 0:00:55.600 to return to work, but there's still a lot of 0:00:55.640 --> 0:00:59.280 other companies that are formulating those plans and rolling it 0:00:59.320 --> 0:01:01.360 out a little bit more or slowly. I know our company, 0:01:01.360 --> 0:01:04.080 I Heart Radio is taking a much slower approach to 0:01:04.120 --> 0:01:07.480 bringing everybody back, but One of the interesting things that 0:01:07.520 --> 0:01:10.600 has popped up with this is testing again. Testing has 0:01:10.640 --> 0:01:13.559 become this thing that has ramped up again as cases 0:01:13.600 --> 0:01:16.560 are starting to surge, But employers are finding that testing 0:01:17.080 --> 0:01:19.240 might be a little more trouble than it's worth. And 0:01:19.280 --> 0:01:21.080 it all has to do with cost. A lot of 0:01:21.120 --> 0:01:24.080 the diagnostic tests started around a hundred dollars each. The 0:01:24.160 --> 0:01:26.959 access and logistics to all of this stuff is pretty 0:01:27.040 --> 0:01:29.880 daunting and cost prohibitive sometimes. So I'm gonna tell us 0:01:29.880 --> 0:01:33.640 a little bit about this. You reason the important point here, 0:01:33.720 --> 0:01:36.360 which is when you talk about employers, there's a vast 0:01:36.520 --> 0:01:39.640 range of scenarios you can think about, right there. Some 0:01:39.680 --> 0:01:43.600 companies have been the workplaces have been operating throughout this pandemic, 0:01:43.680 --> 0:01:47.600 right you think of healthcare providers or manufacturing, even some 0:01:47.720 --> 0:01:50.840 essential construction, right and then there are other kinds of 0:01:50.920 --> 0:01:53.520 employers that are only starting to grapple with you know, 0:01:53.600 --> 0:01:55.960 should we go back to work, what would that look like? 0:01:56.120 --> 0:01:59.280 You know now? And it depends highly on locality and 0:01:59.320 --> 0:02:02.360 where you are in a country, how prorective or employees 0:02:02.360 --> 0:02:05.000 have been during quarantine. So there's so many factors to 0:02:05.040 --> 0:02:08.920 consider here. But what's really interesting about the role of testing. 0:02:09.040 --> 0:02:11.880 All this is that testing has been such a first 0:02:12.120 --> 0:02:15.320 line solution when it comes to the spread of COVID. 0:02:15.840 --> 0:02:20.400 It's been absolutely essential in terms of stemming the virus 0:02:20.480 --> 0:02:23.280 is spread. We don't have a vaccine, but we do 0:02:23.320 --> 0:02:27.040 have testing, and in fact, shortages of testing have been 0:02:27.080 --> 0:02:30.400 a big impediment in terms of the US's ability to 0:02:30.960 --> 0:02:33.600 stand the spread of this virus. So that's an important 0:02:33.639 --> 0:02:37.240 piece of context when you consider employers are coming into 0:02:37.280 --> 0:02:40.760 all of this and thinking about whether they'll even be 0:02:40.840 --> 0:02:43.720 able to access testing in a consistent way for their 0:02:43.720 --> 0:02:47.440 employees and provide that on site to their workers. And 0:02:47.480 --> 0:02:50.200 then these issues of costs, So as you point out, 0:02:50.240 --> 0:02:53.040 it's about a hundred dollars of tests for an active 0:02:53.080 --> 0:02:57.400 infection in the United States. And then if you factor 0:02:57.480 --> 0:02:59.280 on top of that the fact that these are one 0:02:59.320 --> 0:03:02.200 time test right, So if I get tested right now 0:03:02.320 --> 0:03:05.239 and I test negative, that tells my employer that as 0:03:05.639 --> 0:03:09.080 this exact time, on this exact date, I'm negative, But 0:03:09.280 --> 0:03:12.600 it doesn't tell my employer what happens afterwards. Did I, 0:03:12.680 --> 0:03:15.359 you know, worker out onto the street and become infected. 0:03:15.720 --> 0:03:18.320 Did I, you know, quote a big event and come 0:03:18.360 --> 0:03:21.240 into contact with someone who was ill. So this is 0:03:21.280 --> 0:03:25.360 a critical limitation when you think about the relevance of 0:03:25.400 --> 0:03:27.400 these tests, and then there are all of these other 0:03:27.440 --> 0:03:31.880 issues of logistics. Testing times for turnaround tents are creeping up, 0:03:32.080 --> 0:03:35.760 so ideally you would want test results back within fifteen 0:03:35.840 --> 0:03:39.240 or twenty or thirty minutes. Even days at this point 0:03:39.360 --> 0:03:42.520 is kind of not happening. So people are waiting as 0:03:42.560 --> 0:03:45.880 long as seven days, ten days sometimes to get their 0:03:45.880 --> 0:03:48.400 test results back. So that's another challenge. Right, if you 0:03:48.440 --> 0:03:50.640 only get my test result back a week from now, 0:03:50.880 --> 0:03:53.240 how much information does that really give you? How helpful 0:03:53.360 --> 0:03:55.120 is that? Maybe it's time for me to take another 0:03:55.160 --> 0:03:57.400 test by that point, right, And then there are these 0:03:57.400 --> 0:04:00.480 other questions. This is a totally new role employer would 0:04:00.480 --> 0:04:03.720 be taking in their employees healthcare, right. I mean, employers 0:04:03.760 --> 0:04:06.760 may provide health insurance to their employees, but they're not 0:04:06.840 --> 0:04:12.200 usually involved in administering tests on site. So do employees 0:04:12.280 --> 0:04:17.000 even want that. We're hearing yes that Disney Resorts, for instance, 0:04:17.560 --> 0:04:21.080 performers are saying, we want to have tests to go 0:04:21.120 --> 0:04:23.400 back to work. We're eager to go back to work, 0:04:23.440 --> 0:04:25.800 but we can't wear masks, we can't work gloves like 0:04:25.839 --> 0:04:29.320 other professions. We can't work from home. How can you 0:04:29.360 --> 0:04:34.400 make this happen? In Las Vegas, You're having casino employees 0:04:34.400 --> 0:04:38.520 represented by a union actually doing some casinos calling from 0:04:38.560 --> 0:04:42.400 mandatory testing. So this is something that's only beginning to emerge. 0:04:42.400 --> 0:04:44.760 It's sort of a burgeoning issue, but I would expect 0:04:44.760 --> 0:04:47.440 to see a lot more clashes about this as we 0:04:47.520 --> 0:04:50.000 move forward. Yeah, I mean, there was even a recent 0:04:50.000 --> 0:04:54.000 survey done of forty large employers and testing was the 0:04:54.000 --> 0:04:55.400 way at the bottom of the list. You know, they 0:04:55.440 --> 0:04:58.000 want to alter the workplace to allow for social distancing, 0:04:58.040 --> 0:05:01.200 the face mask, on site question and airs, are you sick, 0:05:01.279 --> 0:05:04.200 are you experiencing symptoms, temperature checks, That way at the 0:05:04.240 --> 0:05:07.720 bottom is conducting on site testing. So obviously something that 0:05:07.760 --> 0:05:10.400 they're aware of. But one of the biggest concerns about it, 0:05:10.440 --> 0:05:12.080 as we keep saying, is it just the costs. And 0:05:12.279 --> 0:05:15.080 they're even trying to get to see if insurance can 0:05:15.120 --> 0:05:17.919 pay for some of these costs. So it's definitely a 0:05:18.000 --> 0:05:20.880 big concern there. When you think about going back to 0:05:20.880 --> 0:05:23.599 the office and you think about what public health recommendations 0:05:23.680 --> 0:05:27.440 are in terms of preventing COVID from spreading its social distancing, 0:05:27.560 --> 0:05:30.479 right and that's pretty manageable in an office. You take 0:05:30.520 --> 0:05:33.400 away some chairs, you spread out desks more. It's not 0:05:33.680 --> 0:05:36.599 the easiest possible thing, but it's pretty easy. And then 0:05:36.880 --> 0:05:41.320 requiring face masks also fairly low cost intervention. Maybe you 0:05:41.320 --> 0:05:44.240 have to provide your employees face masks for something like that, 0:05:44.279 --> 0:05:47.640 but again not the biggest poll not the biggest lift 0:05:47.720 --> 0:05:52.960 in the world. Administering screenings, so basically sending an employee 0:05:53.000 --> 0:05:56.839 maybe a for questionnaire asking symptoms, things like that, were 0:05:56.839 --> 0:05:59.920 you in a high risk situation? Maybe even also temperate 0:06:00.040 --> 0:06:03.040 for checks, maybe buying some fancy machine that will screen 0:06:03.040 --> 0:06:04.920 people as they come in and ensure that they're not 0:06:05.000 --> 0:06:08.640 running a temperature. Maybe providing your employees with thermometer so 0:06:08.680 --> 0:06:11.560 they can test their temperature when it come in. Contact 0:06:11.560 --> 0:06:14.480 tracing going through your office and ensuring that someone who's 0:06:14.520 --> 0:06:17.600 tested positive, telling people who they've been in contact with 0:06:17.800 --> 0:06:22.160 about it, ensuring their quarantine. These are all relatively doable 0:06:22.279 --> 0:06:27.160 to implement in the workplace. And installing plexiglass, although it's 0:06:27.240 --> 0:06:31.480 perhaps somewhat more costly than social distancing, still adding these 0:06:31.480 --> 0:06:34.599 physical barriers doable, and then testing is where you get 0:06:34.600 --> 0:06:38.239 into some of the bigger costs, And it's worth noting 0:06:38.600 --> 0:06:43.000 that employers have gone through a period, many of them 0:06:43.080 --> 0:06:46.800 during your shortgounds, suffered tremendous financial costs, and so when 0:06:46.880 --> 0:06:50.920 you think about adding to that by implementing a costly 0:06:50.960 --> 0:06:53.560 measure that doesn't return as much as you would like, 0:06:53.720 --> 0:06:56.040 I think that's where many of them are drawing the line, 0:06:56.120 --> 0:06:58.279 and it remains to be seen how this will play out. 0:06:58.360 --> 0:07:02.200 I think as testing check analogy hopefully improves and more 0:07:02.600 --> 0:07:06.799 fast turnaround tests become available, things that you can actually 0:07:06.920 --> 0:07:10.960 do on site at a workplace lobby or attend outside, 0:07:11.400 --> 0:07:15.040 providing fifteen minute results to patients, to patients who are 0:07:15.080 --> 0:07:18.600 also your employees, I think that will really change the 0:07:18.680 --> 0:07:22.400 calculist for employers. There are faster tests that are much 0:07:22.480 --> 0:07:25.200 much cheaper that are starting to come to market now. 0:07:25.360 --> 0:07:28.480 But given the testing crunch that the United States has 0:07:28.600 --> 0:07:31.880 right now, how available these things will be the employers, 0:07:31.880 --> 0:07:34.720 even large employers that have a lot of approachasing power, 0:07:34.880 --> 0:07:36.920 it's hard to know right now, and it's hard to 0:07:36.960 --> 0:07:38.400 know how things are going to play out. I think 0:07:38.400 --> 0:07:40.600 a really important question that comes up in all of 0:07:40.640 --> 0:07:44.720 this is should employers be sending their employees back to 0:07:44.800 --> 0:07:49.480 the workplace if they can't guarantee them a safe environment, right, 0:07:49.560 --> 0:07:52.480 if they're not willing to do testing that can provide 0:07:52.480 --> 0:07:56.280 a scientific answer as to whether employees have COVID nanking 0:07:56.440 --> 0:07:59.160 or not. A lot of these lower cost measures we've 0:07:59.200 --> 0:08:02.520 been talking about won't catch everything. They may catch someone 0:08:02.560 --> 0:08:06.120 who has symptoms, but these asymptomatic cures, which we know 0:08:06.200 --> 0:08:09.480 to be a pretty big chunk of how this virus 0:08:09.560 --> 0:08:13.040 is getting spread, those people probably won't get caught by 0:08:13.080 --> 0:08:16.400 these measurers, and that's a problem. Well, for as much 0:08:16.480 --> 0:08:19.640 as we are returning to work, there's still a lot 0:08:19.640 --> 0:08:22.239 of plans yet to be worked out to actually safely 0:08:22.240 --> 0:08:25.200 get us back there. So definitely something that we continue 0:08:25.240 --> 0:08:28.320 to follow and m the Court health reporter at Bloomberg News. 0:08:28.320 --> 0:08:31.000 Thank you very much for joining us. Thanks so much. 0:08:33.559 --> 0:08:36.880 I'm Oscar Ramirez and this has been reopening America. Don't 0:08:36.920 --> 0:08:39.400 forget effort today's big news stories. You can check me 0:08:39.400 --> 0:08:42.120 out on the Daily Dive podcast every Monday to Friday. 0:08:42.320 --> 0:08:44.640 So follow us on I Heart Radio or wherever you 0:08:44.640 --> 0:08:45.520 get your podcasts.