Speaker 1: Check it down, man, now down Now. It's the Beating
Speaker 1: the Book Podcast. Still alisand I hope you're doing well
Speaker 1: during these strange times. It's time for another installment of
Speaker 1: our betting profile series during this global pandemic. I hope
Speaker 1: you've been enjoying them. Lots of folks, lots of interesting
Speaker 1: folks throughout the sports betting industry kind enough to spend
Speaker 1: time with us to lend their insights. Today there's a
Speaker 1: couple of guys, Ed Miller and Matthew David Dow. They
Speaker 1: started out as poker players, not originally in their lives,
Speaker 1: but that's how they first met each other, then later
Speaker 1: reconnected playing DFS baseball, wrote a book together. We'll talk
Speaker 1: about that, the logic of sports betting, and now we're
Speaker 1: doing big things with their company, deck Prism Sports. Ed Miller,
Speaker 1: Matthew David Dow. It's the Beating the Book Podcast. Enjoy
Speaker 1: It's a numbers game with your host kil Alexander. Believe
Speaker 1: it is a numbers game right here at VISA, the
Speaker 1: Vegas Stats and Information Network, these sports betting Network. Gil Alexander,
Speaker 1: thanks for joining us this morning. Um on the shows.
Speaker 1: How we always start this a continuation of what has
Speaker 1: been a series during this pandemic of profiles of folks
Speaker 1: in the betting industry, not just professional betters, but those
Speaker 1: who have all kinds of different angles in the sports
Speaker 1: betting industry. And we've been blessed here to have so
Speaker 1: many uh spend their time with us during these last
Speaker 1: three or four months. Alan Boston, Rufus Peabody, Uh, Spanky
Speaker 1: Ray Marino from bookmaker Dr Bob, Alan Dankinson, on and on,
Speaker 1: Joe Peter. I'm leaving some folks out, so I don't
Speaker 1: mean to uh to upset whoever I forgot, but it's
Speaker 1: been it's been a bunch. And when I came back
Speaker 1: here from vacation, I thought to myself, I gotta get
Speaker 1: these two gentlemen back on the show because they are
Speaker 1: doing so many different things that it would I'd be
Speaker 1: remissed and not including in this series. They're kind enough
Speaker 1: to join me in studio again. They're the authors of
Speaker 1: the logic of sports betting, but long time affiliation with
Speaker 1: all things betty betting. Rather, it's Ed Miller and Matthew
Speaker 1: David Dow once again or David Ow, excuse me, back
Speaker 1: on the show. How you guys doing, man, I appreciate
Speaker 1: you spend the time. Yeah, thank you for having us back. Um,
Speaker 1: Let's I listened back. I was telling you all fair.
Speaker 1: I listened back to our time together about a year
Speaker 1: ago when the book first came out. So I want
Speaker 1: to try to as as much as possible not repeat
Speaker 1: what we talked about then, but with everybody during this
Speaker 1: series that I've done, I always want to start at
Speaker 1: the beginning and that sort of James Lipton inside the
Speaker 1: actor's studio kind of way. We didn't talk about this
Speaker 1: last time. How did you both grow up? Let's start
Speaker 1: with you, Ed. Where did you grow up? What was
Speaker 1: your first experience with anything betting where it's sort of
Speaker 1: little bulb for you. So I'm on for New Orleans.
Speaker 1: I grew up in New Orleans. I went to high
Speaker 1: school there and then um went off for college. And
Speaker 1: my first interest in gambling was in black jack. They
Speaker 1: you know, I read one of those early books about
Speaker 1: the you know, card counting in black jack, and I
Speaker 1: don't know, in the nineties and uh and in college
Speaker 1: kind of it it always you know, I don't know,
Speaker 1: it's something about it stuck with me, and I like
Speaker 1: had this idea that I was going to move to
Speaker 1: Vegas be a black jack player, and that didn't happen.
Speaker 1: I went to Microsoft and was a software edineer. But
Speaker 1: that's that's when I started gambling. Was um, that was
Speaker 1: when online poker was really getting going. So online poker
Speaker 1: was my first real time gambling, you know, pre bringing
Speaker 1: it down the house a different black jack book we're
Speaker 1: talking about. It was Yeah, it was before it was
Speaker 1: you know, like yeah, before that book had been written.
Speaker 1: It was you know, like like the nerdy ones where
Speaker 1: they you know, teach it the system and how to
Speaker 1: do this, and you know that I read a couple
Speaker 1: of those and you know, we're your Did your parents
Speaker 1: have any any none basis? So no, they were horrified
Speaker 1: by the whole they were well my mom, yeah she
Speaker 1: was not. She still horrified. Well she she she so
Speaker 1: she's an English professor and she, um was horrified until
Speaker 1: I wrote my first book and then she was okay
Speaker 1: with it. You said, I listened back to our first
Speaker 1: You wrote nine books on poker. Yeah, not nine, this
Speaker 1: tremendous output. So okay, but did you know so when
Speaker 1: you read that book, did it hit you in a
Speaker 1: way that nothing else had, Like, did you know at
Speaker 1: that moment, even if you did go to Microsoft first,
Speaker 1: like somehow I'm going to end up doing something related
Speaker 1: to that. I didn't know professionally, like at all. I
Speaker 1: I definitely didn't have any I didn't have any concept
Speaker 1: that this was going to be my career until like
Speaker 1: I was several years into it, really like this will stick. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's um Yeah, I mean I was you know,
Speaker 1: I always like playing games. I like playing games from
Speaker 1: when I was you know, a little kid, just consistent interest.
Speaker 1: And to me it was like, how you know this
Speaker 1: is a way you can make money playing games. That's cool, Matthew.
Speaker 1: How about she? Where'd you girl? So? I grew up
Speaker 1: in suburban Pittsburgh and uh, we don't hear that in
Speaker 1: this business at all. No, no, never, I haven't anyone
Speaker 1: from Pittsburgh so far. Uh. But yeah, my experience growing
Speaker 1: up was definitely different. And yeah, I I always wanted
Speaker 1: to gamble. I grew up. I remember sitting in like
Speaker 1: math class or something junior high and I figured out
Speaker 1: that if I could just win two out of every
Speaker 1: three of my sports picks, why I would have quite
Speaker 1: a bit of money in no time. Yeah, and I
Speaker 1: was the kid in high school that you know. We
Speaker 1: played poker with our friends. I hang out some of
Speaker 1: the pool hall play some We used to play a
Speaker 1: game called guts two cards, Guts, everyone gets two cards.
Speaker 1: Just sit around like the the like the table at
Speaker 1: the pool hall. One by one you say guts or
Speaker 1: no guts, and it's just the best two car poker hand.
Speaker 1: But then if nobody says gus, he gets to the
Speaker 1: last player. If everyone folds, and the last player takes
Speaker 1: the pot. So it's just a complete bluffing game, you know,
Speaker 1: figuring out the correct you know, from a game theory
Speaker 1: standpoint of how much the bluff it was. You know,
Speaker 1: it was worth a lot in that game. Ed Miller,
Speaker 1: Matthew David Dale, authors of the Logic of Sports Betting,
Speaker 1: and the co founders of of a business that we'll
Speaker 1: get to here during the hour that really takes up
Speaker 1: all their time these days. Um, so you came to
Speaker 1: Vegas as well? You were both in Vegas. You knew
Speaker 1: each other from playing poker? Correct? Yeah? We I think
Speaker 1: we met in the blast game a long time ago.
Speaker 1: Do you remember if you liked each other? Do you
Speaker 1: remember if you were like, oh, that guy kind of thing.
Speaker 1: Well Ed was already very famous on two plus two
Speaker 1: and stuff at that time, so you know he was,
Speaker 1: you know, me as what, twenty four years old, and
Speaker 1: just moved the base, you know, go the blage you
Speaker 1: every day to play poker, you know, which was a
Speaker 1: big step up from the games I had played, and
Speaker 1: you know, other casinos elsewhere, you know, to meet somebody
Speaker 1: like Ed, who, like I said, already at the time,
Speaker 1: was you know, pre eminent poker authority, Ed Miller was.
Speaker 1: What it was was something so you drift or you
Speaker 1: do your own thing for a few years, three or
Speaker 1: four years, the both of you, and then unbeknowns to
Speaker 1: the both of you, you both sort of gravitate towards
Speaker 1: daily fantasy. Wasn't Yeah, that's yeah, that was what it was,
Speaker 1: and you and and it was baseball specifically, wasn't. I
Speaker 1: mean yeah, I think so yeah. And how did that?
Speaker 1: So how did that connection where you're like, oh, you
Speaker 1: do this, you know, and when did you? I guess, well,
Speaker 1: take it from your perspective, and when did you think
Speaker 1: to yourself, Oh, um, good dude, how funny it is
Speaker 1: that we ended up doing this at the same time.
Speaker 1: We both obviously have some sort of advantage play blood
Speaker 1: in US two, I could work with this guy. I mean,
Speaker 1: it was pretty fast. We we got connected on a
Speaker 1: we we both got independently consulted on a fantasy sports company. Um,
Speaker 1: that was kind of how we got connected. And I
Speaker 1: kind of showed him I'd build a whole little system
Speaker 1: to builde my lineups for me and everything. And so
Speaker 1: I showed him that and one of those, right, one
Speaker 1: of those, and uh, you know, and and basically we
Speaker 1: figured out that we were really had independently come to
Speaker 1: a very similar approach on how to win at the game.
Speaker 1: And I don't know, I think that was it was
Speaker 1: pretty fast in those in those days. I mean, you
Speaker 1: guys sound like you know, we have Richard Munchkin Allot
Speaker 1: on the on the network. He's the ultimate sort of
Speaker 1: advantage player. If there's an advantage to be had, he
Speaker 1: gravitates towards it. There's so many of you know, great
Speaker 1: absolutely great guy, and there's so many people who not
Speaker 1: so many, but there's a there's a group of folks
Speaker 1: that we all are aware of that that's how they
Speaker 1: conduct their lives. Would you have considered either of you
Speaker 1: that type of person was that in your DNA, Like,
Speaker 1: if there was advantage play checkers across the room, would
Speaker 1: you have found that game and tried to exploit that
Speaker 1: for however long you could. I mean me more so
Speaker 1: than ed. But at the same time, I, you know,
Speaker 1: I I I do not have a actual background advantage play.
Speaker 1: While I know in respect, hugely respect a lot of
Speaker 1: the people in that in in that field, there's just
Speaker 1: some of the sharpest minds. I was always aiming on
Speaker 1: a larger scale for you know, lack of a better term,
Speaker 1: you know, trying to trying to do you know, particularly sports,
Speaker 1: you know, working on our models are our pre game
Speaker 1: and then we started working in game models about what
Speaker 1: it's almost been seven years now, it's been and I've
Speaker 1: always been much more focused on more of the larger
Speaker 1: picture gambling than Okay, how do I show up with
Speaker 1: this casinon't beat this blackjack game? Okay, So the logic
Speaker 1: of sports betting is why we had you on the
Speaker 1: first time. We could have had you on for any
Speaker 1: number of reasons. I had followed in for for for years,
Speaker 1: perhaps unbeknownst him, but the logic of sports betting, which
Speaker 1: we're looking here at Visa dot Com, the Visa app,
Speaker 1: food post ling game plus uh this was and again,
Speaker 1: I you know, in preparation for this today, I listened
Speaker 1: back to the thirty or forty minutes we talked last time,
Speaker 1: and I was thinking to myself. I was like, I
Speaker 1: didn't do it justice because I kept harping on, you know,
Speaker 1: this is and I still believe this. To me, this
Speaker 1: is the best sports betting book I've ever read, and
Speaker 1: that remains. But the way I couched it last time
Speaker 1: was everybody who's starting out in sports betting should absolutely
Speaker 1: start by reading this book, do it the right way.
Speaker 1: That remains. But what I didn't say is that this
Speaker 1: is also a book not just for beginners, for people
Speaker 1: who have bet sports for five years, for ten years,
Speaker 1: for twenty years, it's just as valuable. I mean, maybe
Speaker 1: if you're starting it's it's the most valuable, for sure.
Speaker 1: But I think there were things that and we were
Speaker 1: talking about this before the show, there were things that
Speaker 1: I read in there. And I'm by no means and
Speaker 1: you know, the guy who's been at this for thirty
Speaker 1: forty years, but there were certainly things in there that
Speaker 1: I read where I'm like, you know, maybe I knew
Speaker 1: this in my head intuitively, but I didn't really think
Speaker 1: of it this way kind of thing. And there were
Speaker 1: things that you're just reminded of. I just the brilliance
Speaker 1: of the book to me is when I was being
Speaker 1: reared on sports betting, there were lots of books out there,
Speaker 1: and they would have their moments that would hit me. Um,
Speaker 1: but most of it was too wonky for my younger
Speaker 1: brain to really latch onto and to really be excited about.
Speaker 1: This is a book that anybody. I could send this
Speaker 1: to my mother, bother you bring up your mother, my
Speaker 1: mother who says one of my sons is a doctor
Speaker 1: or the other. I'm not really sure, right, So I
Speaker 1: think give this to her, and I promise you she
Speaker 1: would give it a go and she would get something
Speaker 1: out of this. That's how well written this was, in
Speaker 1: my opinion, and I'm sure this was part of your
Speaker 1: whole thinking of we gotta make this relatable and to
Speaker 1: that extent you were just brilliant and how you guys
Speaker 1: did it well. Thank you appreciate that, Yeah, I I
Speaker 1: think you know. UM, I mean, just thank you for
Speaker 1: all the nice things you said about the book. Obviously, UM.
Speaker 1: The thing that I would say. I mean, there's I
Speaker 1: think in play betting is new for everybody, you know,
Speaker 1: and and some people I've I've you know, I've some
Speaker 1: people have said to me, well, that was a great book.
Speaker 1: It's a good beginner book. And I was like, you know,
Speaker 1: you didn't know the stuff about the InPlay betting, like
Speaker 1: you know, I think that you know, And so somebody
Speaker 1: who claims that they knew everything probably not being right. Yeah, exactly,
Speaker 1: That's that's kind of how I feel. Yeah, yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: sorry to have interrupt. I mean, that's I mean, just
Speaker 1: just a sort of by the way, I have two
Speaker 1: copies here of Logic Sports Betting, signed by the authors Nick.
Speaker 1: How do we give this away? Do we take caller
Speaker 1: one or six? At one of six? Came l Jams, like,
Speaker 1: how do we do this? We can we figure out
Speaker 1: a way to do it on Twitter or something? What's
Speaker 1: that Twitter contest? Maybe yeah, let's do with Twitter. We'll
Speaker 1: think about it on the break. We'll give away to
Speaker 1: two copies of this. But there was I'm thinking a
Speaker 1: year after I read it, I'm thinking, what do I like?
Speaker 1: What's the headline of what I remember? And I keep
Speaker 1: coming back to there's I remember price Discovery. We took
Speaker 1: price Discovery. We talked about that a lot. But and
Speaker 1: then there was angles versus trends I remember being a
Speaker 1: sort of interesting thing. But the thing I talked about
Speaker 1: with you last time, which which more than anything, sticks
Speaker 1: in my in my brain, uh, the approach of using
Speaker 1: multiple outs to get a zero synthetic hold. I talk
Speaker 1: about on this show. All the time people who talk
Speaker 1: about sports betting talk about all the time, the best time,
Speaker 1: all the all the time, about shopping for the best prices. Right,
Speaker 1: but you guys couched it in this other way where
Speaker 1: I'm like, why hasn't anybody else done? Could you explain
Speaker 1: what I what I meant by that sentence right there
Speaker 1: about zero synthetic holdre so um so. So in general,
Speaker 1: you know, people obviously talk about shopping for the best
Speaker 1: price all the time, and I think a lot of
Speaker 1: the time they come at it with, well, I have
Speaker 1: a bet I want to make. I want to bet
Speaker 1: on the Packers, And so now my job is to
Speaker 1: like look at the odds site, the comparative site, or
Speaker 1: you know, just check a bunch of sports books and
Speaker 1: see who has the best price on the Packers. Right.
Speaker 1: And and in the book we kind of you know,
Speaker 1: we say, well look at odds, shop in a different way. Right,
Speaker 1: instead of having in your mind this is the bet
Speaker 1: I want to make. Let's find the best price. Look
Speaker 1: for the markets where there are opportunities. Right, So instead
Speaker 1: of having in preconceived oh, I want to make this
Speaker 1: better that bet, say what markets are out there where
Speaker 1: there's an opportunity for me? And what's an opportunity it's
Speaker 1: when there's no viig in the market. So a sports book,
Speaker 1: you know, they charge minus one town on either side,
Speaker 1: or maybe it's baseball and it's you know, minus one
Speaker 1: forty plus one twenty. You know, that's the big. That's
Speaker 1: why you know you lose if you flip a coin,
Speaker 1: because you know you're gonna win. You're gonna you know,
Speaker 1: lose more than you win on average. Right. But if
Speaker 1: you could get that big down to zero, then you
Speaker 1: don't lose anymore. You can flip coins all day long,
Speaker 1: you're not gonna lose. So while anyone sports book is
Speaker 1: never gonna show you minus one plus one forty, you
Speaker 1: can find that between two different sports books. Potentially, like
Speaker 1: on a baseball game, you could find one minus one
Speaker 1: forty year and then plus and forty there, and now
Speaker 1: all of a sudden there's no vig And you do that,
Speaker 1: you could pick whichever team you want, you know, and
Speaker 1: you're you have a lot better shot at at winning.
Speaker 1: And this is why I like with states serving up
Speaker 1: and I mean some of the states with better regulations
Speaker 1: now as well, you know, Colorado being one of them. Uh.
Speaker 1: How you can actually take this and apply it is
Speaker 1: sign up at the sports books, take advantage of the
Speaker 1: bonus offers. You know, look for an odd screen that
Speaker 1: displays the the odds and in real time amongst the
Speaker 1: different accounts that you have. Look for markets. I mean,
Speaker 1: if you want to bet sports and never lose, A
Speaker 1: simple way to do that is the only bet markets
Speaker 1: where you can look across the screen of your actual
Speaker 1: outs and in as an example, you know, get minus
Speaker 1: one forty on side A plus one forty on side B.
Speaker 1: If every single sports book that you have has minus
Speaker 1: one forty plus one twenty one, probably gonna lose about
Speaker 1: that three point seven percent. If, on the other hand,
Speaker 1: you've got what is their seventeen sports books in Colorado,
Speaker 1: I think that there's a lot open one and there's said,
Speaker 1: I mean, that's crazy, and a lot of these places
Speaker 1: are going to be trying to take bet. They're gonna
Speaker 1: be trying to compete on price, you know. I I
Speaker 1: think there's a few places in Colorado there aimy to
Speaker 1: completely compete on price. And you pute a few of
Speaker 1: them on a screen or you know, on your apps,
Speaker 1: and find the market where you can get the same price.
Speaker 1: Basically on either side. You can bet forever without losing
Speaker 1: a dollar. You don't have to know anything that that
Speaker 1: nugget alone, Just that point about about synthetic zero hold
Speaker 1: is is just I think it's not gonna make you
Speaker 1: the greatest sports better in the world overnight, but it's
Speaker 1: certainly gonna make you an exponentially better sports better. It's
Speaker 1: going to just improve from the if you're first starting
Speaker 1: out reading the book, it's just gonna start you at
Speaker 1: a at a higher level than you would have otherwise.
Speaker 1: And if you're a current better like this is this is,
Speaker 1: you know, just such a key point. It's in the
Speaker 1: weeds for for some I hope people grab that. We'll
Speaker 1: talk about what they're doing now. Deck Prison Sports coming up,
Speaker 1: Ed Miller, Matthew David down right here, on a numbers
Speaker 1: game and Visa these Sports Betting Network. Welcome back to
Speaker 1: a numbers game with Jill Alexander. It is a numbers
Speaker 1: game right here at Visa the Sports Betting Network. The
Speaker 1: Logic of Sports Betting is the book written by my
Speaker 1: guest today, Ed Miller, Matthew David Dow kind enough to
Speaker 1: join me once again. Um, before we get to what
Speaker 1: you are doing today, there is something else, by the way,
Speaker 1: and by the way, Nick Kenyon. Right now Producers is
Speaker 1: coming up with a Twitter contest to who can win
Speaker 1: these two copies of the book, signed copies from Ed
Speaker 1: and and Matthew. And we were just talking all fair
Speaker 1: about how I hope that I hope that the folks
Speaker 1: that there's a large percentage of folks who will just
Speaker 1: listen to your explanation about what we were just talking
Speaker 1: about was zero whole percentage synthetic zero hold and and
Speaker 1: thought to themselves, Oh, I now I get it. I
Speaker 1: need to sort of read this. Ultimately, we know there's
Speaker 1: going to be some percentage that will be like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I just want to I just want Aaron Rodgers to
Speaker 1: beat the Cowboys. But to the extent we can sort
Speaker 1: of drive this home that there's so many nuggets in
Speaker 1: this book that that will just help up you beyond
Speaker 1: belief in this racket before we get to the endeavor today.
Speaker 1: And I bring you up from time to time on
Speaker 1: this show. You're probably unaware of this, but more than
Speaker 1: a few times when the subject of and i'll give
Speaker 1: the specific book, it's usually when it comes to William Hill,
Speaker 1: you and I are sort of aligned on a certain
Speaker 1: thing here. It's a it's worn as sort of a
Speaker 1: badge of honor on people's sleeves. If I could just
Speaker 1: mix metaphors here that when when they get banned from
Speaker 1: a book like William Hill, and I always have thought
Speaker 1: to myself, I'm like, that's not what I'm if I
Speaker 1: live here in Nevada, that's not what I'm striving for.
Speaker 1: I don't bet there often. I bet they're probably a
Speaker 1: handful of times a year. But every once in a
Speaker 1: while things will come up. It just happens to be
Speaker 1: William Hill that I'm talking about here, because they're specific
Speaker 1: in this case, But every once in a while there'll
Speaker 1: be lines there that I want to rush over in
Speaker 1: bet won't happen every month, won't happen every few months,
Speaker 1: but sometimes it happens, and I just want to have
Speaker 1: the ability to have that out. You, I believe, have
Speaker 1: a very similar viewpoint on that. You're not trying to
Speaker 1: get banned. You get the business model and therefore behave accordingly.
Speaker 1: Is that correct? Have I misquoted you over the years?
Speaker 1: You know? I mean, that's that's that's the right idea.
Speaker 1: I mean, I you know, I don't not talking about
Speaker 1: any book in general, but talking more about the like
Speaker 1: badge of honor idea. I mean, I think there's you know,
Speaker 1: there's a subset of gamblers that you know, their ego
Speaker 1: is kind of tied up and you know how smart
Speaker 1: they are. And the thing about gambling is there's not
Speaker 1: really like like it's a really solitary thing. Like the
Speaker 1: people that I know who have won you know, literally
Speaker 1: seven figures are more. I mean a lot of times
Speaker 1: they're literally doing it in complete anonymity. They have a
Speaker 1: small network of people. Sometimes they man on the internet.
Speaker 1: Sometimes they only know them by handles, you know, sometimes
Speaker 1: they're halfway across the world, and those are the only
Speaker 1: people in on the secret that they're these brilliant people
Speaker 1: that million and that just eats at them that they
Speaker 1: can't tell people how amazing they are. You know, this
Speaker 1: is my sort of pet gambler psychology thing. I could
Speaker 1: talk about that first, and I just see it come
Speaker 1: out in these ways. I just see it coming. Oh
Speaker 1: I got banned, but we'll congratulating for you, you know,
Speaker 1: good for you, you got banned. I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: that's how I see it. Yeah, I agree, I mean,
Speaker 1: why would you want to get banned by anyone? I
Speaker 1: mean that it's it's such a great we we sort
Speaker 1: of drifted there in something though, but we know certain gambles.
Speaker 1: We probably know the same ones who have struggled with that,
Speaker 1: right they there, I know, you know, and you guys
Speaker 1: do as well. A spectrum of great gamblers. And there
Speaker 1: are those that who ought to do remain anonymous, that
Speaker 1: look askance at those whose egos, from their viewpoint, have
Speaker 1: have made them sort of come out in public to say, hey,
Speaker 1: look at me, I'm really great at this. And those
Speaker 1: and and the truly successful betters, as you say, many
Speaker 1: are in complete anonymity, toil away in a corner of
Speaker 1: the world. They'll never come on this show, by the way,
Speaker 1: good friends of mine, right, like, hey, when you come
Speaker 1: on Finally, no man does nothing for me. The worst
Speaker 1: are the ones with the big enough he goes to
Speaker 1: write the books. As far as William Hill like, I think,
Speaker 1: I think if you're a sports book and you're putting
Speaker 1: up any proposition, any odds, it's a two way, and
Speaker 1: you're the sports book is telling the better you can
Speaker 1: bet either side of this for the post that limited
Speaker 1: any time you get your bad I think that's like
Speaker 1: the and hear and deal that the sports book is
Speaker 1: making with the clients. And I think when books don't
Speaker 1: do that, that goes against where we want to be
Speaker 1: as an industry, against where where we want to be
Speaker 1: as a as a society. Honestly, as far as like
Speaker 1: embracing sport, embracing odds, predicting this gambling, I think that
Speaker 1: any time there's and and certainly that's what happens if
Speaker 1: you're posting propositions with two sides, and if certain players
Speaker 1: play one of the sides that either it had banned
Speaker 1: or delayed. So I definitely want to say, I don't
Speaker 1: think that's a that's not how that's not where I
Speaker 1: want the industry to go. At the same time, in
Speaker 1: what is really the point of playing something that you
Speaker 1: know is gonna get you banned. I mean, and I well,
Speaker 1: and and to exhibit William and to exhibit you know,
Speaker 1: to get your banned. Right, that's part of the game.
Speaker 1: This is obviously the discussion I want to get to. Uh,
Speaker 1: and we will talk about we have to go to
Speaker 1: break here again. Deca Prism Sports is the name of
Speaker 1: the company that these two gentlemen, Ed Miller and Matthew
Speaker 1: david Ow have co founded. Um wait till you hear
Speaker 1: what they're doing now. We talked about a little last time,
Speaker 1: but it is in full effect now, I know, in
Speaker 1: the state of Colorado and uh, across the pond. We'll
Speaker 1: get into that and this wider discussion we're just having
Speaker 1: right here on a numbers game at Visa, the Sports
Speaker 1: Betting Network. Welcome back to a numbers game with Jill Alexander,
Speaker 1: a numbers game proudly brought you by Big Lots. This program,
Speaker 1: of course, not only brought you by Big Lots, but
Speaker 1: if you live big and save lots, all you have
Speaker 1: to do is go to Big Lots store near you
Speaker 1: and visit big Lots dot com. Do one or the
Speaker 1: other Big Lots, Live, Big, Save Lots right here on
Speaker 1: the Numbers game a Visa. The sports Betting Network is
Speaker 1: Skill Alexander H. Nick Kenyon producer this week. Um, how
Speaker 1: are we given away the logic of sports betting? What
Speaker 1: are we doing? We are gonna do a Twitter contest
Speaker 1: on the Visa live feed and we will have it
Speaker 1: retweeted from the Beating the book feed as well. But
Speaker 1: what we're gonna do is we're gonna put out a
Speaker 1: tweet about eight am Pacific time. Look for it around then.
Speaker 1: And we want to hear from you what's the best
Speaker 1: sports gambling advice you've received since the time you started
Speaker 1: sports gambling. Our two favorite responses will win signed copies
Speaker 1: of Matt and Ed's book. We're judge injury on that, none,
Speaker 1: of course we are. Yeah, all right now people are
Speaker 1: gonna start doing it now now at eight o'clock. Now
Speaker 1: that you mentioned it, all right, well we'll do it
Speaker 1: officially starting eight o'clock. Uh, Ed Miller, Matthew David Out
Speaker 1: are my guest here again this morning? Yes, the authors
Speaker 1: of the logical sports betting. But what takes most of
Speaker 1: your time now, if not all of your time, is
Speaker 1: deck prism sports. Uh. You explained to me last time.
Speaker 1: And for those who didn't know, deck prism, uh, the
Speaker 1: crystal in a in a old timey sail boat adding
Speaker 1: light to the darkness. What was your express what was
Speaker 1: your expression? Remember darkness exactly? That makes no sense, no,
Speaker 1: but did in your explanation before it did it? It
Speaker 1: was sort of a guiding lights to it. So in
Speaker 1: before electricity, the tolls of the ships would obviously not
Speaker 1: have much light in the deck prism is a literally
Speaker 1: a prism with you know, different angles of glass that
Speaker 1: would sit in the way between the sun and the
Speaker 1: hole that would spread more light across the entire entirety
Speaker 1: of the interior of the ship. And what is it
Speaker 1: that you guys do? Deck prism in game stuff primarily,
Speaker 1: but all kinds of betting offerings. Right, So so we're we're,
Speaker 1: um basically offering what we call managed trading services. That's
Speaker 1: what the industry calls it. UM. Basically we operate the
Speaker 1: the line we we basically provide sports book operators with
Speaker 1: a line set that they can offer to their customers. So, um,
Speaker 1: you know, in a sports book operator, someone can say, Hey,
Speaker 1: I want to start a sports book, but you know,
Speaker 1: I don't know how the heck to make lines on
Speaker 1: twenty seven different games and props and all this stuff.
Speaker 1: You know what do I do? And basically they could
Speaker 1: come to a company like ours and say, hey, can
Speaker 1: you provide me with you know, up to the second
Speaker 1: lines that I can offer to my customers and you're
Speaker 1: up and running. Yeah, we have a complete product all
Speaker 1: the way from pre match through. But where we really
Speaker 1: are heads and tales. We think of our competitions the
Speaker 1: in play. We have an in play product that anybody
Speaker 1: can use without the delay. Let mean, one thing I
Speaker 1: I know that we've been talking about recently is how
Speaker 1: bad delay is in general, especially for in running, and
Speaker 1: our product is built for a sports book to operate
Speaker 1: with zero delay. Can we show the David Berman tweet
Speaker 1: that we put up yesterday, David Barman over from ESPN.
Speaker 1: This struck me yesterday I put up. I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is perfect lead up for Ed and Matthew tomorrow.
Speaker 1: But he experienced what so many of us has have
Speaker 1: experienced so many times in far away places when we're
Speaker 1: in game wagering. Um, David Barman, why American needs better
Speaker 1: technology in the betting world? He Morrikawa. Colin Morrikawa the
Speaker 1: Charles Schwab live at plus nine thirty after the second
Speaker 1: whole yet Sunday in the final round. Rejected, rejected, rejected, rejected, rejected,
Speaker 1: it's five rejected. By the way, fine give up, and
Speaker 1: he's just sort of expressing his frustration. This is exactly
Speaker 1: what you seek to eradicate, right that nutshet with our product,
Speaker 1: you pressed the botot plus nine thirty get the bet
Speaker 1: every single time. What so, now, when you were writing
Speaker 1: Logic of Sports Betting, I understand that this was probably
Speaker 1: your You've probably thought bigger things beyond that. You you
Speaker 1: already said seven years ago you started modeling this kind
Speaker 1: of thing together. Do Let's let me put it this way.
Speaker 1: Hope we don't take it wrong. Why did you Why
Speaker 1: were you guys so confident that you were the ones
Speaker 1: to do this best with the models that we were using,
Speaker 1: we're already being used in the market. We were we
Speaker 1: were all we were already you know, selling them the
Speaker 1: syndicates we are they were tried and true, whereas everybody
Speaker 1: else is where ten second delays. So you cyndy kids
Speaker 1: were using your mouth. Are they still up? By the way,
Speaker 1: it's still available deck prison on online, can can better
Speaker 1: still access that are no longer there's there's no more
Speaker 1: odds on the website. For many many reasons, that was
Speaker 1: something we wanted to get our name out there. Obviously
Speaker 1: wanted to you know, show us to create you know,
Speaker 1: publicity more than anything. Just all of our all of
Speaker 1: our focus right now as a company is in in
Speaker 1: our product, which is the one that the sports books
Speaker 1: are actually using. So if we were using the same
Speaker 1: you know the same time and effort to put them
Speaker 1: up on the website for free, that would kind of
Speaker 1: go against that. How many? How many? That's right? Basically
Speaker 1: since you're up and running now. Before we were talking
Speaker 1: prior to your launch, I think in August last year
Speaker 1: was the launch. You're in Colorado, You're you're in Europe
Speaker 1: somewhere too, Is that correct? We're not in Europe where
Speaker 1: we have a deal with a Latin American I expect
Speaker 1: to be in Europe though during football season, and you
Speaker 1: know the at least one and hopefully number of places
Speaker 1: in Colorado and else where in the US. Um Nevada
Speaker 1: already to entrenched in what they're doing. For you to
Speaker 1: sort of engage right now, would you say we we
Speaker 1: would love to get into Nevada. I mean there's some
Speaker 1: uh special regulatory hurdles that Nevada has the states like Colorado.
Speaker 1: I don't have Colorado has. I just give a shout
Speaker 1: out to Colorado. They've been fantastic so far. Their regulatory
Speaker 1: everything dealing with them has been terrific. It's been intuitive. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's been very intuitive. Um. You know, Nevada has got
Speaker 1: more regulatory hurdles. Um. So that's kind of what immediately
Speaker 1: stands in the way of us and providing lines to Nevada.
Speaker 1: But I we would love to and we love I
Speaker 1: mean obviously we live here. We love it here, we
Speaker 1: love the books here, we know a lot of the
Speaker 1: people here, and you know, hopefully we'll figure that out soon.
Speaker 1: You I don't you know, I don't think you would
Speaker 1: give away the farm here on this. But is there
Speaker 1: is there a thirty second pitch that you that you
Speaker 1: give to sort of convey why what you do might
Speaker 1: be better than someone else. Let's say there's someone else
Speaker 1: that is providing these swords of odds to send the
Speaker 1: kids and elsewhere. Maybe they've they've shown some value. What
Speaker 1: would you say to people is why we are a
Speaker 1: cut above without giving away a farm on this. I
Speaker 1: think that the major thing that separates are coming the
Speaker 1: way we approach things from the other kind. I'm sure
Speaker 1: there's plenty of places out there that are really doing
Speaker 1: good work these days, but we've managed to bring the modeling,
Speaker 1: the software development, and the trading aspect, you know, all
Speaker 1: in one, Whereas I think that I think that a
Speaker 1: lot of operators are looking for more of a plug
Speaker 1: and play model, hoping one model solves everything. We're able
Speaker 1: to bring the automation right up to the point where
Speaker 1: a real expert and can then just can actually add
Speaker 1: as expertise in real time to the automation and get
Speaker 1: it to the next level. Okay, turn key in that
Speaker 1: way if you will. Um okay, And you were talking,
Speaker 1: and we'll get to this because we had got to
Speaker 1: take it one more break here. But you saying right
Speaker 1: before we came on that it's not only the spin
Speaker 1: that we were just talking about from David Barreman's tweet
Speaker 1: that you hope to solve what what? In twenty seconds
Speaker 1: was the other thing that you said that you also
Speaker 1: are are attempting to solve than I mean, I mean
Speaker 1: that the main idea to me is that you know
Speaker 1: in play. Batting is fun when you know that what
Speaker 1: you're looking at is the bet you're going to get,
Speaker 1: and that's what we want to offer to our captain.
Speaker 1: Jack pointed out something with the Oregon Lottery, how someone
Speaker 1: was trying to get minus one ten or something got
Speaker 1: minus one fifty. Everybody else was getting dealt minus one ten.
Speaker 1: Those of us have a bet for a long time,
Speaker 1: very familiar with that sort of thing. We'll find out
Speaker 1: more about debt. Prison Ed Miller, Matthew David Dow coming
Speaker 1: back on a numbers game at Visa and these sports
Speaker 1: betting up. Welcome back to a numbers game with Gil Alexander.
Speaker 1: Numbers game also brought you by man Escaped dot Com.
Speaker 1: Man Escape dot com has the tools for your family jewels.
Speaker 1: You get off plus free shipping with the code Visa
Speaker 1: atvan escape dot Com off a man Escaped dot Com
Speaker 1: with promo code v s I n Skill Alexander ed Miller,
Speaker 1: Matthew David Ow, authors of The Logic of Sports Betting,
Speaker 1: available where all books are sold still Amazon. For Amazon,
Speaker 1: it's pretty much it's getting there. I can't tell you
Speaker 1: how many Amazon trucks I passed on the way from
Speaker 1: San Francisco to to Vegas on the drive. What has
Speaker 1: been the most last thing about the book? What's been
Speaker 1: the most surprising thing about this book? Have you gotten
Speaker 1: any feedback anecdotally where you're like, oh, I didn't expect
Speaker 1: to hear that at all. I Mean, the thing I
Speaker 1: appreciate the most is how many non gamblers have picked
Speaker 1: up this book, you know, our industry adjacent and have
Speaker 1: have been like, Wow, I learned a lot, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean we were talking off fair a little bit
Speaker 1: about you know, I've had some state legislators read that
Speaker 1: reach out to me and say, hey, you know, we're
Speaker 1: researching this to legalize it in our state. And I
Speaker 1: read a book and I really learned a lot. And
Speaker 1: and to me, that's that's the feedback I've I've appreciated.
Speaker 1: That's awesome. Yeah, casting a wide net with it. By
Speaker 1: the way, on Visa Live, Nick it's up. People can't
Speaker 1: People who want to signed copy by both the Ed
Speaker 1: and Matthew Logical Sports Betting check out at feast and
Speaker 1: live right now on Twitter and respond there. Okay, so
Speaker 1: right before the break and I sort of jammed you
Speaker 1: up against the break, but you wanted to explain the
Speaker 1: spin in a different way. You had a sort of
Speaker 1: macro wave. So a lot of people look at the
Speaker 1: delays and they think, well, if something happens in the
Speaker 1: game state, you know, that's what the delay is for,
Speaker 1: you know, me and you know, as a gambler and
Speaker 1: other gamblers. I look at the lay a little bit differently.
Speaker 1: I look at it a lot like, you know, you're placing.
Speaker 1: An extreme example of this was you're gonna place your
Speaker 1: NFL bets on Sunday morning, and you you play NFL
Speaker 1: bet Sunday morning, right, gil uh, Sunday morning. But also,
Speaker 1: I thought you met Sunday Monday morning. Excuse me, Monday morning,
Speaker 1: the beginning of the week, Monday, so correct the lines
Speaker 1: come out, You're like, that line should be seven, it's five. Now,
Speaker 1: that line should be ten, it's seven. Now. You place
Speaker 1: your bets on Monday. So the even a five second
Speaker 1: delay in player anytime, it's just a microcosm of the
Speaker 1: problem of Let's assume you place all of your bets
Speaker 1: on Monday morning. You you walk over there at the
Speaker 1: South Point ticketing writer, you say, I want the Cowboys
Speaker 1: minus seven, I want the Steelers plus ten. I want
Speaker 1: the Packers plus three, and he takes those tickets. He says,
Speaker 1: of course, sir, let me just you know, set them here,
Speaker 1: and you know, sometime later this week, when the spin
Speaker 1: is done, I'll let you know if you have your bets. Now,
Speaker 1: Thursday comes around and well, you know, Packers plus three
Speaker 1: is now plus two and a half. Sorry, yo, would
Speaker 1: you like to take the two and a half. Would
Speaker 1: you like this one back? Meanwhile, Cowboys plus ten is
Speaker 1: now about to twelve? Well, what do you know, plus
Speaker 1: ten's already in your account. You better hope they don't
Speaker 1: lose by eleven. To me, the delay, the five seconds,
Speaker 1: ten seconds, it's just a you know, a much smaller yeah,
Speaker 1: the exact same. And and and sometimes they argue, oh, well,
Speaker 1: you know, let's let's say they you know, gave let's say,
Speaker 1: you know, on the ones they move against you, you know,
Speaker 1: they give you the they're like, oh, we'll give you
Speaker 1: the bet at the current price. You know, but they're still,
Speaker 1: you know, they're still looking at your bets. They're saying, okay,
Speaker 1: these these five are good bets. Rejected, these five were
Speaker 1: bad bets, and they either accept them as is, or
Speaker 1: maybe they generously give you the minus one tand the
Speaker 1: current market. Right. But either way, what they're doing is
Speaker 1: they're looking at all of the bets that you're making
Speaker 1: and they're selectively rejecting the ones that were good, you know.
Speaker 1: And that's what the delay is about, you know. And
Speaker 1: this happens even if someone's actually not looking at the
Speaker 1: bets rejecting it. I mean, in my example, remember he
Speaker 1: just sent him on the counter and then looked at
Speaker 1: him later. He didn't think about him, he did and say, oh,
Speaker 1: this one's no good, this one's good. He just took
Speaker 1: the ones where the line in your line was still
Speaker 1: available on Thursday. And that's the same thing that happens
Speaker 1: live even on a you know, even on a five
Speaker 1: second delay. A much more vivid way of describing this. Now,
Speaker 1: I know you're gonna I know, I get ten lashes
Speaker 1: for this, but this has what what you're doing is
Speaker 1: what Layman have described as the pinnacle model. Right. I
Speaker 1: know you don't want I just created about this. I know,
Speaker 1: I know you uh, but okay, so let me ask
Speaker 1: you this. So we know, are good friends over at
Speaker 1: CIRCA do they don't have an algorithm they're trying to
Speaker 1: you know, in many ways give betters as legit and
Speaker 1: offering in game as you guys are. Um, do you worry?
Speaker 1: Do you worry? By the way, are you familiar with
Speaker 1: Mustard Bet at all? I've heard the name Okay, Andrew
Speaker 1: Grood who used to who was the lead developer of
Speaker 1: the micas algorithm about ten years ago. Uh, it was
Speaker 1: a British derivatives trader eventually became the CEO of Mustard Bet.
Speaker 1: He he attempted to do this, um and was like,
Speaker 1: all smart betters, come on, We're going to make this
Speaker 1: as as you know, great and a betting experience, talking
Speaker 1: about all the things you're talking about here as possible.
Speaker 1: They didn't end up working out. Do you ever think
Speaker 1: to yourself, as well intentioned as you are, that it's
Speaker 1: just so hard to compete in a world where there's
Speaker 1: you know, a much much you know, there's a new
Speaker 1: gambling generation that doesn't know better, and as hard as
Speaker 1: we try to educate you guys especially try to educate
Speaker 1: that a new generation is going to be sucked in
Speaker 1: by any gambling offerings and even though what might be
Speaker 1: better for them over here is just gonna get trumped
Speaker 1: by marketing dollars on the Why can't you have both skill?
Speaker 1: Why can't you have the grand marketing and the product.
Speaker 1: That's why we don't like the term pinnacle model, because
Speaker 1: the product and the branding, there's there's nothing that has
Speaker 1: to tie these two things together. There's no reason that
Speaker 1: I mean Circus crushing it on Brandy for instance. There's
Speaker 1: no reason that the company like Circa, they're doing it already,
Speaker 1: can't combine branding with product. There's no rule that says, well,
Speaker 1: if you brand well, that means you need to lace
Speaker 1: and kick everybody out. It's there's nowhere in the gambling
Speaker 1: books as I say that, right, Yeah, I mean that's
Speaker 1: the fun. That's why this you know conversation always you know,
Speaker 1: just drives me crazy because that's why I started with
Speaker 1: a ten lash. It's like it's like a complete false psychotomy.
Speaker 1: I mean, everyone's like, you gotta you gotta either, you know.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just it's to me, it's you know,
Speaker 1: to me, what's the right idea of the right idea
Speaker 1: is to build the best customer experience. You know, what's
Speaker 1: the best customer experience? Well, part of that is having
Speaker 1: an amazing sports book, having you know, saying you know,
Speaker 1: bonuses where they can you know, go see the Cowboys game.
Speaker 1: I mean all the stuff that you know, people associate
Speaker 1: with the kind of recreational stuff, and it's having a
Speaker 1: better product, is having a product that works better for
Speaker 1: real gamblers. I mean to me, that's what a better
Speaker 1: customer experience is. It's both, right, No, I and I
Speaker 1: don't think anybody would disagree that both things in a
Speaker 1: perfect world could could coexist. Right. It's not a dichotomy,
Speaker 1: it's not a it's not a binary choice by any
Speaker 1: by any stretch. But you would acknowledge maybe you wouldn't. Uh,
Speaker 1: I think you might though that with the margins you
Speaker 1: would have, it's tougher to sustain the business over something
Speaker 1: that's obviously egregious, like you're up against that in terms
Speaker 1: of it's just harder for you to to maybe not
Speaker 1: to scale it. Maybe it is. I think at some
Speaker 1: point that the math is going to change from I
Speaker 1: want my ten percent hold not to my five percent
Speaker 1: hold to wait a second, you know, five percent of
Speaker 1: a hundred million is more than ten percent of ten million. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well boy, I hope so. Yeah. By the way, I
Speaker 1: hope you're not taking this any you know, I'm just
Speaker 1: and we're a technology company. I mean, I mean our
Speaker 1: focus is to build the technology to enable an operator
Speaker 1: to offer this to their customers. So let's say there's
Speaker 1: a technology cut cut, you know, Let's say there's an
Speaker 1: operator that is crushing it on branding. Let's say it's
Speaker 1: let's say it's Sarka, I mean Circu is doing a
Speaker 1: great job. Let's say it's someone else. It's an operator
Speaker 1: that says, you know what piece we're missing, We're missing
Speaker 1: this part of the customer experience. You know. That's who
Speaker 1: can come to us and we can basically provide a
Speaker 1: ready solution for them. Is that what would you say
Speaker 1: is your number one challenge? Is it somewhere in that
Speaker 1: area or is it something else? I figured out number
Speaker 1: one challenges getting the entire product you know, nailed. And
Speaker 1: if you if if the only advantage you have as
Speaker 1: a company, here's your products better? Well by does it
Speaker 1: better to be so much better? And that's you know,
Speaker 1: we're getting it from this much better and making sure
Speaker 1: it's you know, I'm on the radio here and move
Speaker 1: my hands, but you get the idea. That's all right,
Speaker 1: that's all right. You are watching as well. Visa dot Com,
Speaker 1: the Visa f Fubo slinging game plus. Um, yeah, but
Speaker 1: but I mean you you said it's it's not industry
Speaker 1: specific to this, right, you said at Matthew, which is
Speaker 1: if if this was a meritocracy, if the world was
Speaker 1: one big meritocracy, the world would be so much different,
Speaker 1: right sadly. Um, so much of what we experience of life,
Speaker 1: if not all, is not based on merit. It's based
Speaker 1: on so many other factors. And so you know, I
Speaker 1: think it's fascinating the it's such a huge endeavor that
Speaker 1: you've undertaken and really is probably I mean, you guys
Speaker 1: have moved from the thing to thing. I wouldn't imagine
Speaker 1: there's is there an act after this or is this
Speaker 1: kind of what you guys are singularly focused on for
Speaker 1: the right now? This is this is more than enough. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, we're we're grinding away at it, and I
Speaker 1: think what we're doing is good and we're gonna see
Speaker 1: where this goes. How many eployees do you have? Now?
Speaker 1: What's the seventeen seventeen employees? Good for you guys, man, Uh,
Speaker 1: you're doing you're doing great work man, And Uh to
Speaker 1: the extent that we can promote it everything you're doing.
Speaker 1: Colorado is a phenomenal jurisdiction with with the rules. Would
Speaker 1: you say that that's the best in the country so far?
Speaker 1: In New Jersey obviously has done very well. Would you
Speaker 1: say Colorado is the most favorable. I mean, I'm not
Speaker 1: an expert, but it's it's got to be up there.
Speaker 1: It's could be number one, you know. I I haven't
Speaker 1: looked at all the rules and regulations. It's more for
Speaker 1: the lord. What yeah, what do you let let me
Speaker 1: put that different way. What are you eyeing? Like, what's
Speaker 1: the big you know, what's the big one to drop
Speaker 1: in the future? What is the is it California? California?
Speaker 1: And I mean I think that this all could come
Speaker 1: faster now than maybe, you know, maybe a year ago,
Speaker 1: with the current political climate and you know, state it's
Speaker 1: looking for budget and I think there's rural opportunity. But
Speaker 1: we mentioned Circle before, and I mean there's real opportunity
Speaker 1: for a company like that with the you know, the
Speaker 1: right branding, the right product to to to really drive
Speaker 1: a wedge into the current uh I'll call eurocentric part
Speaker 1: of the U S industry. That's right. The Eurocentric part
Speaker 1: of of the the industry. Is that what drives you
Speaker 1: the most? Crazy? Last question? I think in America we
Speaker 1: have a deep seated gambling culture. I've spent twenty years
Speaker 1: with American gamblers and sometimes I have to say what
Speaker 1: I hear from coming out of Europe rings a little
Speaker 1: hollow to me. I think they kind of don't get us.
Speaker 1: So I wanna I want an American gambling company that
Speaker 1: knows Americans to succeed here kind of don't get us,
Speaker 1: you know, I was. I was doing work with j
Speaker 1: Rute over an MGM when he was an MGM VP
Speaker 1: of of racing sports over there for many years, and
Speaker 1: you know, euro influence came in there. It was not
Speaker 1: only they don't get the American but sort of an arrogance.
Speaker 1: Do you find that that arrogance is waning at all
Speaker 1: or only increasing? If you we don't have our nose
Speaker 1: quite to the grindstone enough on that. But I will
Speaker 1: say it is certainly our passion to bring a fairness first,
Speaker 1: American centric, you know, to to to to make the
Speaker 1: American sports market market markedly different than the European market.
Speaker 1: That's our passion. When you say, is this the you
Speaker 1: know we're gonna end with this well, I mean, this
Speaker 1: is going to continue, whether you know with us or
Speaker 1: you know with our you know another company, somebody is
Speaker 1: going to do this and do it well. Deck Prism
Speaker 1: is the name of the company, um, perhaps at a
Speaker 1: sports book near you already as we speak of the
Speaker 1: book The Logic of Sports Betting, given away a couple
Speaker 1: of copies at least, and live on Twitter. Ed Miller,
Speaker 1: Matthew david Ow. Thank you guys so much, appreciate it. Thanks,
Speaker 1: thank you.