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Speaker 1: And now move the sticks with Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks.

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Speaker 1: What's up, everybody, walcome to move the sticks?

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Speaker 2: DJ?

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Speaker 1: Buck back with you, Buck, I see you. You're wearing

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Speaker 1: the Granada Hills Charter football shirt. I gotta tell you

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Speaker 1: a great story. So we are. We're in Cornado, if

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Speaker 1: those who don't know, Cornado got the island over there.

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Speaker 1: So we're gonna. Yeah, my wife and I were going

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Speaker 1: to lunch. It's raining and we're walking and I see

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Speaker 1: this guy wearing a Granada Hills football sweatshirt, a little

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Speaker 1: bit older guy, and uh I so I literally I

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Speaker 1: don't know why. I didn't even say like hi, sir.

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Speaker 1: I just said like, hey, you know Bucky Brooks. And

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Speaker 1: the guy just look like he's just seen a ghost.

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Speaker 1: Like he looked at me. Actually, there might have been

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Speaker 1: a language barrier there, and so he just kind of

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Speaker 1: stared at me and then he just goes, no.

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Speaker 2: Go have a nice day, have a nice day.

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Speaker 1: I thought I was gonna get have this great interaction

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Speaker 1: like this guy. It was like a Granada Hills football

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Speaker 1: swim cured on Buck. He is Gread Hills football.

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Speaker 2: That's funny, but I am not surprised that there would

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Speaker 2: have been a language barrier because the majority of the

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Speaker 2: kids that I coach, I mean, like we have all

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Speaker 2: kinds Uh yeah, Asian Americans. Uh, we have Middle Eastern nerves. Uh.

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Speaker 2: I mean just it's a lot of scope of kids.

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Speaker 2: It's fanny and so it's kind of funny. So I'm

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Speaker 2: not surprised that you would see all different types wearing

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Speaker 2: wearing the gear. I thought you were gonna say when

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Speaker 2: you're at Cornado that you bumped into John Elway, because

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't be surprised if he is kind of around,

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Speaker 2: just floating around, just just kind of doing what John

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Speaker 2: Alway does as the king.

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Speaker 1: You send him a fresh year, like you get you

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Speaker 1: get new gear on.

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Speaker 2: I haven't caught like I haven't. I haven't caught up

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Speaker 2: with him in a while, but yeah, I got I

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Speaker 2: got a stack of stuff waiting for him. Whenever I

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Speaker 2: can track him down. He's he's uh, he's not the

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Speaker 2: easiest to find, but he has come through because a

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Speaker 2: couple of coaches went into the La City Section Hall

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Speaker 2: of Fame and he showed up. Uh. Darrostro went into

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Speaker 2: the Hall of Fame. His old coach Chisel might be

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Speaker 2: his football and baseball coach went through, so he kind

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Speaker 2: of show showed up and went to the ceremony and

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Speaker 2: those things. So that was a big deal. That was

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Speaker 2: last last year, I think when he came through. So

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Speaker 2: it's coming from UE. I love that.

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Speaker 1: Today on the show, we're going to, uh, we're going

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Speaker 1: to hit on some of the top debates, like the

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Speaker 1: closest graded players that we have as we come down

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Speaker 1: the home stretch here, see if we can shed some

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Speaker 1: light on that. But I want to give you some

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Speaker 1: breaking stuff that we've got right now because I reached

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Speaker 1: out to a actually from an assistant general manager. I said, hey,

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Speaker 1: I know Cooper Degene had his pro day today from Iowa.

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Speaker 1: I said, can you get because numbers get put out

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Speaker 1: and I'm always like, hey, let me talk to a

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Speaker 1: team and get official team numbers.

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Speaker 2: Here.

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Speaker 1: So this is the team numbers that I got, size

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Speaker 1: six five two oh two, great, size thirty one and

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Speaker 1: an eighth arm. They had him at four four six

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Speaker 1: and four four three with a thirty eight and a

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Speaker 1: half vert ten to four, broad, a one five to two,

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Speaker 1: and a one five five ten for one month healthy

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Speaker 1: and training. Pretty darn good, Pretty darn good.

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Speaker 2: I would say that is really, really good. And the

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Speaker 2: reason why it's so good is because DJ like it's funny,

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Speaker 2: because I still feel like it's out of sight, out

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Speaker 2: of mind, right, So we haven't seen him. We didn't

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Speaker 2: get a chance to see him at the comment and

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Speaker 2: really work out. I think he's underappreciated. I know you

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Speaker 2: have him well up there in your top fifty. I

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Speaker 2: have him as my number one slot defender in my

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Speaker 2: top fives. And the thing that is really impressive when

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Speaker 2: you dig down deep. One, he was a state long

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Speaker 2: jump champion, so I'm not surprised to see the numbers

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Speaker 2: that he put out there because he's an explosive athlete. Two,

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Speaker 2: when you go in, you study the tape and you

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Speaker 2: see him bounce around. He does everything that a lot

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Speaker 2: of times we project players to do. He does on tape.

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Speaker 2: We see him play outside, we play him play corner inside,

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Speaker 2: nickel corner, we play him say safety, we see him

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Speaker 2: return kicks, we see the speed and all the athleticism.

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Speaker 2: To me, he is one of the safest prospects in

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Speaker 2: terms of projecting what he's going to be at the

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Speaker 2: next level because you see it all and we have

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Speaker 2: seen of late, we've seen these Iowa dbs coming to

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Speaker 2: the league and have success and stick into all that

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Speaker 2: other stuff. We know Kirk Ferance runs a pro style program. Man,

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Speaker 2: I feel about as good about Cooper Gene as I

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Speaker 2: feel about any prospect in this class.

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Speaker 1: No, it's a good point, and I think it's a

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Speaker 1: classic case of kind of out of sight, out of

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Speaker 1: mind a little bit. He hasn't had a chance to

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Speaker 1: go through the whole process. But this is a good

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Speaker 1: closing argument that he's made here coming down the stretch

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Speaker 1: to go along with the tape from the beginning, I.

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Speaker 2: Got one for you. So on path to the draft today,

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Speaker 2: we were using the PFF my draft simulator. We were

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Speaker 2: just kind of going fun tool. So I was responsible

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Speaker 2: for three teams, three teams that had multiple picks, so

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Speaker 2: the Bears, the Cardinals, and the Vikings. Somehow in the

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Speaker 2: simulator it went where Quinjon Minchew went number eight to

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Speaker 2: the Atlanta Falcons. All the quarterbacks are going DJ at

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Speaker 2: eleven with the Minnesota Vikings. Cooper gen is off the

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Speaker 2: board like whoa, yeah, ahead of Terry and Arnold. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So people may be surprised when they hear that, but

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Speaker 2: I think they have to understand that nickel position and

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Speaker 2: the versatility that he brings makes him a very valuable

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Speaker 2: and a hot commodity. I'm not saying that he is

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Speaker 2: going to be a top fifteen pick, but if we

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Speaker 2: were on draft night and it happened where he goes

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Speaker 2: before we get to fifteen, I wouldn't be surprised. He

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Speaker 2: checks off a lot of boxes in terms of his

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Speaker 2: athleticism in production.

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Speaker 1: So I want to hit you on the related question

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Speaker 1: there because this is one of the challenging things in

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Speaker 1: the role that we're in now versus the one we

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Speaker 1: used to be in. Do you find yourself and you

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Speaker 1: do your top fives? I do the top fifty. This

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Speaker 1: is a challenge that I have of Look, I look

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Speaker 1: at this in a pure scouting exercise, how I stack

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Speaker 1: the players, what I think of the players. But as

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Speaker 1: you get towards the end, I might and you the

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Speaker 1: same way. We might not know which team is going

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Speaker 1: to take somebody, but we know this player is going

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Speaker 1: ahead of that player. And it's like, do you want

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Speaker 1: to beat your chest and say I had this guy

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Speaker 1: as my top corner and he was the first corner

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Speaker 1: off the board, or do you stay true to the

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Speaker 1: evaluation and say, I know this other guy is going

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Speaker 1: ahead of this guy, but I like this guy better.

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Speaker 1: And three years, four years from now, when we look back,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna feel good about having this guy over that guy.

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Speaker 1: That's a challenge of this side of the business that

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Speaker 1: I don't think people appreciate.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think this is a big challenge, and I

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Speaker 2: think it depends on how you want to play it.

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Speaker 2: If you're staying true to your own scouting process or whatever,

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Speaker 2: then you don't change it. You may make mention of it,

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Speaker 2: because we always talk about the verbiage, right, So with

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Speaker 2: your top fifty, you have an opportunity to write a

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Speaker 2: blurb about the player, why you have him there, whatever.

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Speaker 2: In my top five, I have an opportunity to kind

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Speaker 2: of scrimmage it out a little bit. But I try

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Speaker 2: to because I feel like when I made those changes,

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Speaker 2: they've come back regret on me. Yeah, they've come back

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Speaker 2: to bite me in the past when I've done it,

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Speaker 2: Like so, yeah, I did it.

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Speaker 1: With Baker Mayfield over Josh Allen. I had Josh Allen

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Speaker 1: over Baker Mayfield, and I'm like, Baker Mayfield's gonna be

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Speaker 1: the first pick and I you know, not even consciously,

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Speaker 1: like subconsciously, it messages you up.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think last I know, I did it last

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Speaker 2: year with Bryce Young and CJ. Stroud. For most of

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Speaker 2: the process I had c J. Stroud is my number

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Speaker 2: one in the top five. Then at the end I

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Speaker 2: flipped it. I think sometimes it's a little of the fatigue,

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Speaker 2: being honest, from doing TV. We talk about guys so much,

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Speaker 2: you end up having the same argument. Then before you

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Speaker 2: know it, that argument that you have kind of seeps

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Speaker 2: into your conversation, your evaluation, in your writing. But if

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Speaker 2: we're doing it the way that we would do it,

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Speaker 2: if we're area Scouts on the West Coast or whatever region,

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Speaker 2: you stay true to it and you wouldn't worry about

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Speaker 2: how they come off the board. You would say, this

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Speaker 2: is how I see the guys, this is my top five,

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Speaker 2: and I'm sticking with it.

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Speaker 1: I also would say, sometimes while information can help you

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Speaker 1: get a player right, it can also mess you up.

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Speaker 1: Whereas I almost wish, like when I first started doing

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Speaker 1: this twelve years ago on the media side, and you've

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Speaker 1: been doing it longer than me on the media side,

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Speaker 1: are like it's just part of our generation. So like

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Speaker 1: we had a lot of connections with area scouts and

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Speaker 1: guys that you know, got many like at the top

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Speaker 1: of the ladder. As we now fast forward twelve years,

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Speaker 1: all the guys that we've guys have gone up. All

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Speaker 1: our guys are up. So we've got connections with all

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Speaker 1: these gms across the league, and you can get inundated

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Speaker 1: with information and sometimes it's like, man, I almost wish

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Speaker 1: I'd have been better off. Don't tell me about what

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Speaker 1: this kid was like on the interview. Don't tell me

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Speaker 1: you know about this thing that may have happened in

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Speaker 1: the past or whatever. I just clouds my my picture

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Speaker 1: a little bit versus just at the beginning, it was

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Speaker 1: almost just like this pure of I like tape, Like

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Speaker 1: you know, this is just a tape. We would call

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Speaker 1: them cross checks. So when you're with a team, for

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Speaker 1: those of you, you know, you have your area where

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Speaker 1: you know the character, you've been in the school three times,

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Speaker 1: you know them inside out. But then you'd have cross

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Speaker 1: checks tape, only you're not hell responsible for anything this

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Speaker 1: guy might have off the field, whatever, you just watching

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Speaker 1: the tape. That's what it used to be like. And

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Speaker 1: I feel like now we almost got too much information.

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Speaker 2: Now. I'm with you, because DJ when is really the

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Speaker 2: pure form of just off tape. Sometimes the evaluation is

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Speaker 2: different and because we have Look, let's be honest, the

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Speaker 2: industry has exploded since we jumped into it, like the

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Speaker 2: cottage industry of the draft and draft scouting and all that. Look, man,

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Speaker 2: there are more people in the game now. There are

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Speaker 2: more people making cut up tapes that end up on YouTube.

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Speaker 2: There's more websites and content that you can consume where

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Speaker 2: you naturally see a lot of the information about a

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Speaker 2: player that can impact and influence your grade if you're

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Speaker 2: not careful. I think the best thing is, look some

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Speaker 2: of this I got from you when you talked about

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Speaker 2: the process in Baltimore. How you try you guys try

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Speaker 2: to have the notebooks all closed up by the time

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Speaker 2: you got to combine. I remember you talked about Phil

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Speaker 2: Savage and how Phil Savage was always say, hey, by

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Speaker 2: the time we get to the workouts, yeah, we need

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Speaker 2: this to be done because the only thing that's going

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Speaker 2: to happen is we're going to be overly influenced by

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Speaker 2: what we see in T shirts and shorts as opposed

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Speaker 2: to sticking to the game. And I try to stay

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Speaker 2: true that, even though we have to keep making changes

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Speaker 2: based on more information, more film, more this, But typically

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Speaker 2: your first instinct is right, is the right one.

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Speaker 1: I'm looking up some stuff here because I was curious

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Speaker 1: on this as we're talking. Find this last thing here.

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Speaker 1: Twenty twenty twenty two. Okay, so do you remember the

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Speaker 1: Jalen Hurts discussion that we had. We got down to

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Speaker 1: the very end, Yeah, he had not been he had

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Speaker 1: not been in my top fifty. He had not been

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Speaker 1: in my top fifty. And then at the very end,

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Speaker 1: I was like, Okay, I just at the end of

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Speaker 1: I just he's the kind of guy I'm worried I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna be wrong on Like, he's the kind of guy

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Speaker 1: I'm worried that's going to come back and bite me

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Speaker 1: when it's when we look back on it. I'm like,

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Speaker 1: he's just got such good wiring and such good makeup.

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Speaker 1: So last year I was trying to look at I

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Speaker 1: believe it was Jack Campbell from me who went back.

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Speaker 1: I think I put him in the last one at

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Speaker 1: like forty nine, like forty nine or fifty, like right

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Speaker 1: around there. I was trying to see twenty two. But

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Speaker 1: like just those guys you're like, you know what, all

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Speaker 1: the informations there, maybe I didn't have the grade that

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Speaker 1: puts him there, but like I'm gonna allow some just

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Speaker 1: allow some common sense of like, this guy's got a

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Speaker 1: lot of the traits to be a good player. So

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Speaker 1: did it what Jalen Hurts do with Jack Campbell? And

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Speaker 1: I was thinking about, like, who will be that guy

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Speaker 1: this year? I mean, Melton might be one. I put

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Speaker 1: him in there in the in the most recent one.

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Speaker 1: But it's always interesting this time of year to go

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Speaker 1: back through and say, Okay, who's the guy that I've said, like, man,

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Speaker 1: I love him in the third round. But then you're like,

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Speaker 1: you know what, screw it. I just I believe in

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Speaker 1: who this guy's makeup is. It might even be like

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Speaker 1: a Mike Samers still of like he's probably gonna go

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Speaker 1: outside of the top fifty, I would guess, But man,

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Speaker 1: the makeups elite the playmakings there, Like maybe that's a

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Speaker 1: guy that you just put in there.

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Speaker 2: It's so funny that you brought that up because you

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Speaker 2: talked about Max milt DJ. I'm looking at my list

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Speaker 2: of Nickel corners and in order I have Cooper Dejen,

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Speaker 2: Mikey Sanders Steel and in Max Milton like bang bang,

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Speaker 2: and then right after that is Kamari Lassiter. And I

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Speaker 2: think with all of those guys, the thing that you

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Speaker 2: like is the temperament, the IQ, the instincts. Kamari Lasta

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Speaker 2: ran slow, then you want it. Maximulton was super competitive.

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Speaker 2: Sandra still just plays the position like a like a pro.

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Speaker 2: You know, when you watch them at Michigan, I just

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Speaker 2: don't think you can go wrong. Sometimes when you buy

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Speaker 2: into the high character guys that kind of show you

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Speaker 2: that steady play, it may not be the flashes, but

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Speaker 2: they just kind of bring you know exactly what you're getting.

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Speaker 2: And I know we talked about ceilings and floors, but

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Speaker 2: DJ we talked about the business being man, you can

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Speaker 2: win a lot of games if you hit doubles. You

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Speaker 2: don't necessarily have to hit a bunch of home runs.

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Speaker 2: If you just hit doubles, good players that are just

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Speaker 2: kind of solid for what you do, you can be okay.

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Speaker 2: And I think sometimes those last guys kind of climbing

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Speaker 2: to the top fifty are those guys that you just know,

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Speaker 2: hey man, this is just a double all day, every day.

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Speaker 1: One other I'll give two other thoughts a real quick

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Speaker 1: and then we'll take a quick break and we'll come

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Speaker 1: back and we'll get into some of these draft debates.

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Speaker 1: But first one, I talked to a bunch of executives

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Speaker 1: over the weekend. The weekends are kind of a good

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Speaker 1: time to connect because the guys are meetings all week

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Speaker 1: can't really catch them. So the weekends I talked to

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Speaker 1: a bunch of guys around the league. It's always intriguing

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Speaker 1: to me who they ask about. And you know, the

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Speaker 1: name that came up more than any other in a

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Speaker 1: weekend full of conversations around the league was Graham Barton.

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Speaker 1: Where's Graham Barton going? And I start thinking about it,

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Speaker 1: and I'm like, man in an era now where you know,

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Speaker 1: I think position flexibility up front with offensive line has

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Speaker 1: never been more valuable. Yeah, and having a guy who

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Speaker 1: literally is a five position player, who's incredibly smart, who

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Speaker 1: was playing center as a seventeen year old freshman in

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Speaker 1: the ACC you know, and has played tackle, you can

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Speaker 1: play any of the positions, And I think I'm just

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Speaker 1: curious to see when it's all said down. I would

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Speaker 1: have said, if you'd asked me a month ago, I

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Speaker 1: would have said, like guiding and mems they're going to

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Speaker 1: go ahead of Graham Barton, and I think what happens

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Speaker 1: as we get to the end, people like, man, those

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Speaker 1: guys are really talented, and maybe next year they'd be

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Speaker 1: top fifteen picks. But there's just not a lot of starts.

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Speaker 1: And then it's like gram Barton is the double. It's

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Speaker 1: like we get down to the end and you're like, man,

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Speaker 1: I don't I can't miss, Like Graham Barton is right

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Speaker 1: in the fairway.

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Speaker 2: So it's funny. I felt like I was crazy high

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Speaker 2: on him. Like going through it, I'm like, man, what's

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Speaker 2: not the Like a guy plays five position, he has

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Speaker 2: starts at center, but he plays out wide at tackle.

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Speaker 2: You know that you can get him into lineup. And

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Speaker 2: let's just think about the times that we've worked for

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Speaker 2: a team and we're saying, coach, I know this guy's

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Speaker 2: our third tackle, but can't we just put him in

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Speaker 2: at guard? Like can't we put our best five on

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Speaker 2: the field? Kind of similar to you talk about, hey,

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Speaker 2: let's just not have any tomato cans. And so with

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Speaker 2: Graham Barton, I think if you're a team that is stuck,

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Speaker 2: who can we pick? You're like, well, you know, kind

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Speaker 2: of take Barton and just kind of figure it out

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Speaker 2: when we get when we get on campus, like flog

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Speaker 2: out there and put up best fot That's what he

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Speaker 2: offers that other guys. And I think we could say

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Speaker 2: that JPJ Jackson Powers Johnson is a better center, but

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Speaker 2: the versatility that Barton brings makes it where you have

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Speaker 2: to say, hey, he's gonna go. He's going off the

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Speaker 2: board first because there's so many different roles that he

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Speaker 2: could occupy for a team. Yep.

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Speaker 1: And uh, that that was one of the things that

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Speaker 1: stood out to me. The other one was I was

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Speaker 1: having this conversation and we were talking about the tight ends, right,

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Speaker 1: and man, it's hard to We've said it, the Boers

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Speaker 1: trying to find a home for him, just because people

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Speaker 1: don't look at that as a value because of what

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Speaker 1: you can get free agent tight ends for and the

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Speaker 1: gap of what you're gonna have to pay for a

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Speaker 1: tight end up high in the draft is not different.

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Speaker 1: And this person said, have you seen what these defensive

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Speaker 1: tackles are getting paid?

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Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, they up to twenty three million.

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Speaker 1: Because I was going through it, I'm like, man, I'm

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Speaker 1: trying to find out, like, who can I be who

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Speaker 1: might I be a little low on, you know, like

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Speaker 1: who do I need to consider? And so I have

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Speaker 1: like Byron Murphy's my nineteenth player. Okay, I don't think

351
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Speaker 1: he's getting to nineteen buck. I'm gonna probably move him

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Speaker 1: up a little bit in my last one. That's again

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Speaker 1: I have the grade to support it. But that's where

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Speaker 1: I have him. I compared him at all, and then

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Speaker 1: the other one being Johnny Newton so and Johnny Newton,

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Speaker 1: I think some people had him as a two as

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Speaker 1: like a second round pick. Some people thought twenties. And

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Speaker 1: the thought came to me when we were talking about

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Speaker 1: how much money these d tackles were making. It's like, man,

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Speaker 1: if I can get one of those two guys, really

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Speaker 1: good players, and I think Murphy's really, you know, pretty dynamic, man,

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Speaker 1: that's a value like versus what these guys are getting

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Speaker 1: paid on these free agent contracts, Christian Wilkins and on

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Speaker 1: and on, you know, Chris Jones, Quentin Williams around. We've

365
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Speaker 1: seen all these guys paid massive amounts of money. We

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Speaker 1: just saw the dude from Carolina get a ton of money.

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Speaker 2: Yep. So oh Dery Brown just got paid.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, So if I'm if I'm those guys, I'm

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Speaker 1: feeling pretty good about myself. And on the other side

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Speaker 1: of it was and I'm not. We don't ever do

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Speaker 1: we never do, you know, character assassination or we never

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Speaker 1: get into that. But man, tov Andre Sweat, what are

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Speaker 1: you doing? What are you doing? So you get a

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Speaker 1: d UI three weeks before the draft? What are you

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Speaker 1: doing DJ?

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Speaker 2: So maybe it was always the path meeting today and

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Speaker 2: I was telling the crew one of the things that

378
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Speaker 2: you do as an area scout when you're having these

379
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Speaker 2: interviews like at pro day, like writing in and you're like, hey, man,

380
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Speaker 2: you have got to just just stay out of trouble, Like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: won't go out late, like I've told guys, Hey man,

382
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Speaker 2: I know you guys are gonna go out, but hey,

383
00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:52,879
Speaker 2: if it closes, it to leave it one like just

384
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Speaker 2: right now for the next three months to the end

385
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Speaker 2: of the draft, Like, just stay out of trouble. And

386
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Speaker 2: so for Sweat to get a DUI three weeks before

387
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Speaker 2: the draft, like I think people have to understand for

388
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Speaker 2: us to clean that up, to investigate it, and to

389
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Speaker 2: do it, we're now up against the clock because we

390
00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:16,000
Speaker 2: don't know, we don't have enough time to get all

391
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Speaker 2: the information to figure out like, hey, is this a

392
00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:21,280
Speaker 2: pediment behavior that we missed? Is how is this going

393
00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:24,440
Speaker 2: to be adjudicated? What is he going to have to do?

394
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Speaker 2: And at some point, DJ, you're sitting there and you're

395
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Speaker 2: having this conversation with the higher us and we're going

396
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Speaker 2: back and forth and then finally say, you know what,

397
00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:37,920
Speaker 2: who's the next one. Let's move on, And that's what happens.

398
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Speaker 2: And so for him, I mean, this is a major

399
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Speaker 2: major mistake that's going to be very costly because the

400
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Speaker 2: timing of it, not that you would ever condone it,

401
00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:54,600
Speaker 2: but the time three weeks before and coming off of

402
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Speaker 2: the thing where man like a week before that you

403
00:18:56,960 --> 00:19:00,440
Speaker 2: got Rashid Rice doing something. So now you have all

404
00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:06,000
Speaker 2: of this attention back on NFL players and their conduct.

405
00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:08,840
Speaker 2: And the last thing that you can do is everyone

406
00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:12,160
Speaker 2: everyone knows this. When you've been a scout, the last

407
00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:13,840
Speaker 2: thing you want the owner to do is when they

408
00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:17,080
Speaker 2: have to do that introductory pressor Yeah, I don't want

409
00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:19,280
Speaker 2: him to stand up there and someone throws a question

410
00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:23,520
Speaker 2: from left field that he is unable to answer. Yeah,

411
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Speaker 2: And so Sweat has put himself in a position where

412
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Speaker 2: you just won't take him because you don't want ownership

413
00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:32,119
Speaker 2: or the general manager anybody to stand in front of

414
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Speaker 2: the podium and get hit with a question that blind

415
00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:38,720
Speaker 2: sized them because we don't have all the information.

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Speaker 1: No, and I look, he's not Yeah, he was on

417
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Speaker 1: my initial top fifty list, and then I pulled him.

418
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Speaker 1: And then you get to the Senior Bowl. He doesn't

419
00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:50,480
Speaker 1: weigh in, which, however you feel about that, it's not

420
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Speaker 1: a good look when you We're the only person I

421
00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:54,359
Speaker 1: think of in history that hasn't weighed in at the

422
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Speaker 1: Senior Bowl. So you've got at least history. You know,

423
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Speaker 1: he's three hundred and close to three hundred and seventy

424
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Speaker 1: pounds I've got. I'm like, man, am I gonna have

425
00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:03,680
Speaker 1: to worry about this guy showing up at four hundred pounds?

426
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Speaker 1: And it's like, no, no, he's mature, he's grown up.

427
00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:07,200
Speaker 2: Da da da da da.

428
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Speaker 1: And it's like, well, this is not helping my case here.

429
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Speaker 1: And as we both know, having been in the draft room,

430
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Speaker 1: I don't care what player it is. There is always

431
00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:17,800
Speaker 1: a four and against argument in that room. It might

432
00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:21,000
Speaker 1: be ten guys four and one against, but there's never

433
00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:25,240
Speaker 1: consensus across the board. There's always another opinion in there,

434
00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:29,400
Speaker 1: and that case just became that case closed because you're

435
00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:31,920
Speaker 1: you're sitting there as a scout. Say you're the area

436
00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:33,480
Speaker 1: of scout. You've got a big grade on him, and

437
00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:35,240
Speaker 1: we've got a role. We can do it, and you

438
00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:38,000
Speaker 1: get pushback, pushback. We've been in that room, Buck.

439
00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:38,439
Speaker 2: And you know what.

440
00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:40,000
Speaker 1: You know it as well as I do. There's that

441
00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:42,119
Speaker 1: moment where you go, I'm gonna fallowing the sword on

442
00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:44,840
Speaker 1: this one. Guys, you guys, I'm not gonna I'm not

443
00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:46,760
Speaker 1: dying on this hill. You guys knowed him where you're

444
00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:48,439
Speaker 1: gonna put him. I'll fight my I'll save my bullets

445
00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:50,800
Speaker 1: for another battle, but I'm not fighting that one anymore.

446
00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:52,760
Speaker 2: For another one because the character thing. And so now

447
00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:56,400
Speaker 2: we talked about so we talked about the defensive tackle class,

448
00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:57,720
Speaker 2: and I was gonna bring this name up because you

449
00:20:57,720 --> 00:20:59,600
Speaker 2: saw him at the senior ball. But now like a

450
00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:02,120
Speaker 2: guy like Brandon Dorless, he now has.

451
00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:05,840
Speaker 1: Dude, Dude, he's gonna go. Man, he's talking to coaches,

452
00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:07,679
Speaker 1: he is going to go. And I went back and

453
00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:09,360
Speaker 1: did more on him. I'm glad you brought that up.

454
00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:11,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I wrote down in my notes because I

455
00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:13,640
Speaker 2: was going through I was like, well, you know, he's big,

456
00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:16,800
Speaker 2: powerful defensive tackle. You see the Senior Bowl one on

457
00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:20,520
Speaker 2: ones and he is out here drop stepping and spin

458
00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:23,399
Speaker 2: moving on folks like he's a post player and he

459
00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:25,080
Speaker 2: has a lot of power. He has a lot of stuff.

460
00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:26,880
Speaker 2: And then you looked at the numbers from the combine

461
00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:30,800
Speaker 2: that are fairly impressive. DJ like it opens up the

462
00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:33,919
Speaker 2: door and you talk about Johnny Newton, Bayern Murphy, you

463
00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:36,560
Speaker 2: talk about Dora List, you can talk about Chris Jenkins.

464
00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:40,640
Speaker 2: I have Darius Robinson because he goes inside and outside.

465
00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:44,840
Speaker 2: But there are guys that are gonna be valued because

466
00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:47,840
Speaker 2: everyone is looking for that interior player that can give

467
00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:51,000
Speaker 2: you some pass rush, that he can give you that penetration,

468
00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:53,800
Speaker 2: he can give you a little disruption on the inside.

469
00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:56,960
Speaker 2: There's value in those guys. And with the numbers going

470
00:21:57,040 --> 00:21:59,119
Speaker 2: up at that position where you getting guys in the

471
00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:02,119
Speaker 2: hot look when he's twenty two to twenty three, twenty

472
00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:05,920
Speaker 2: four million dollar annual Martin, Yeah, you're gonna look to

473
00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:08,120
Speaker 2: see if you can replace some of those guys with draftees.

474
00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:10,960
Speaker 1: Yep uh, that's a great point. I'm glad you brought

475
00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:13,600
Speaker 1: up Doorless too, because I had he's a tweeter, right,

476
00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:15,480
Speaker 1: he's played inside, his play outside. He worked out at

477
00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:17,920
Speaker 1: the combine with the DNS, and I remember like, yeah,

478
00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:20,680
Speaker 1: he had a great combine workout, but his numbers had

479
00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:23,320
Speaker 1: been compared with the dns. When you kick his numbers

480
00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:26,000
Speaker 1: to the dts and Naggy our buddy Jim Naggi went

481
00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:27,840
Speaker 1: the receivable. Tweeted that out the other day, like, man,

482
00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:29,480
Speaker 1: you stack him up with it. He's like top three

483
00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:31,800
Speaker 1: in every metric. And I was talking to a coach

484
00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:33,520
Speaker 1: the other day and he was like, man, He's like,

485
00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:36,679
Speaker 1: why is nobody talking about this Doorless? Like I'm like, well,

486
00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:39,159
Speaker 1: I have a solid he's just outside my top fifty.

487
00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:43,000
Speaker 1: But then all this confluence of information, right, the value

488
00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:45,600
Speaker 1: of the position, this guy being a DT and not

489
00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:47,960
Speaker 1: a d N. Then it's just like now you get

490
00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:50,359
Speaker 1: the sweat, like sweat. He was above sweat already for me,

491
00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:52,240
Speaker 1: but then the sweat thing happens is kind of I

492
00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:54,160
Speaker 1: feel like a lot of attention's gone to this position,

493
00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:56,720
Speaker 1: and I feel like he's a guy that late late

494
00:22:56,760 --> 00:22:59,920
Speaker 1: here in the process, especially as coaches. As coaches get

495
00:22:59,920 --> 00:23:02,359
Speaker 1: in to the mix, I'm glad you brought that name up.

496
00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:06,359
Speaker 2: Look, he's one of those guys I had him in notes.

497
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:09,480
Speaker 2: I'm looking at him like, man, this is one day

498
00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:11,359
Speaker 2: we have to kind of talk about. But there were

499
00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:13,919
Speaker 2: some other guys that you talk about a bit of

500
00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:15,960
Speaker 2: a cluster. But do you want to take a break

501
00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:16,480
Speaker 2: before we do it.

502
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:18,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's take a quick break and then we'll get

503
00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:20,199
Speaker 1: into some of these clusters. We'll do that right after this.

504
00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:27,200
Speaker 1: All right, Buck, we teased it here about some of

505
00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:29,160
Speaker 1: these debates. I'm gonna go through some of the positions

506
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:31,120
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna give you what I think, at least

507
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:35,480
Speaker 1: personally for me, have been this guy versus that guy discussion. Okay,

508
00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:37,520
Speaker 1: and then just you know, I'm not You don't need

509
00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:40,200
Speaker 1: to pick. I'll tell you how I have who over who,

510
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:42,280
Speaker 1: But I would love to just get your thoughts on him.

511
00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:43,760
Speaker 1: It's a good, healthy dialog. You ready to go?

512
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:44,200
Speaker 2: Cool?

513
00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:47,320
Speaker 1: Let's do it, all right, We'll start at corner. A

514
00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:52,600
Speaker 1: good one for me is here we go. I've got

515
00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:57,280
Speaker 1: Cooper Dejene at twenty five. I've got Reke Straw at

516
00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:03,240
Speaker 1: twenty eight. Now in Cooper Dejene's favor, he just ran

517
00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:05,160
Speaker 1: so we ran fast. We ran in the mid four four.

518
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:08,439
Speaker 1: As we talked about that earlier, he's twenty He's twenty

519
00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:13,520
Speaker 1: pounds heavier than Rakestraw, So that's I mean, and then Rakestraw, look,

520
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:16,199
Speaker 1: I was hoping he'd have a better process just in

521
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:18,040
Speaker 1: terms of the testing stuff. I still thin he's a

522
00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:20,600
Speaker 1: really good player. But I have Cooper Degene three spots

523
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:24,119
Speaker 1: over him. And then the other discussion would be Cooper

524
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:28,320
Speaker 1: Dejen versus Nate Wiggins, which would be a better one.

525
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:31,600
Speaker 1: So I have them six spots apart on my top

526
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:33,720
Speaker 1: fifty list. But let's just do that one because I think,

527
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:36,480
Speaker 1: even though I love Rakestraw, I think I think those

528
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:37,880
Speaker 1: are the two guys are going to go ahead of him,

529
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:41,120
Speaker 1: from Cooper Dejen versus Nate Wiggins. Where do you stand

530
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:41,880
Speaker 1: on that one?

531
00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:45,240
Speaker 2: Okay, So we just had this conversation about Cooper Degene.

532
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:48,359
Speaker 2: I was still leaned towards Degene. The one thing about

533
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:50,920
Speaker 2: Nate Wiggins, I would say that is in his favor.

534
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:55,679
Speaker 2: The speeding, the athleticism is terrific. I would say, the

535
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:58,280
Speaker 2: instincts in the awareness. You see him make plays, you

536
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:00,960
Speaker 2: see the effort occasionally on if he ran down a

537
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:02,720
Speaker 2: couple guys and knocked the ball out there with North

538
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:05,160
Speaker 2: Carolina play stands out to me. The way he ran

539
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:07,920
Speaker 2: it down and punched the ball out of a Marian

540
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:10,800
Speaker 2: running back from North Carolina punched it out in the

541
00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:13,959
Speaker 2: end zone. That stuff is great but easier. But then

542
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:16,200
Speaker 2: I sit here and I think about and it's not fair,

543
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:17,560
Speaker 2: but it's one of the things that you do as

544
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:21,840
Speaker 2: a scalp. I think about a manual for struggles last season,

545
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:26,960
Speaker 2: his rookie year in Washington, slender frame light. I think

546
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:31,120
Speaker 2: about the way the can't see the Chiefs secondary tackled

547
00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:34,320
Speaker 2: and tackled well and why that was a big part

548
00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:37,080
Speaker 2: in why they won. And I have questions and concerns

549
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:39,800
Speaker 2: about Nate Wig is not only his tackling, but maybe

550
00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:42,520
Speaker 2: his willingness to kind of come up there and get

551
00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:46,119
Speaker 2: after it. To me, I tend to go with the

552
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:49,600
Speaker 2: other player because we see too often, man, if you

553
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 2: were a bad tackler or an unwilling tackle it, man,

554
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:54,600
Speaker 2: the ball finds you and it hurts you because those

555
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:57,320
Speaker 2: big plays cost you games. So I would go with

556
00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 2: Degene and that I think Degene's a more physical player,

557
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:02,680
Speaker 2: He's more versatile, more dynamic. I would I would go.

558
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 1: With him, Yeah, I have I have the genius well,

559
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:08,439
Speaker 1: and I'm sticking with Ray Constraw over Wiggins, but I

560
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:10,640
Speaker 1: think you know, wigans way ahead of him.

561
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:13,000
Speaker 2: So so here's the thing that we would have. Like

562
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:16,040
Speaker 2: Wiggins goes where he goes, but the comparison between him

563
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:19,879
Speaker 2: and Rikershaw, I'm looking at my notes toughness to nasty technique.

564
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:23,440
Speaker 2: He's a coaching coach's dream as a standout cover corner

565
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 2: with superb tackling skills. Just a physical player, aggressive but

566
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:30,760
Speaker 2: plays with that control fury that you like. To me,

567
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:33,200
Speaker 2: I'm going, I don't think you can ever go wrong

568
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:35,399
Speaker 2: with a tough guy. And if you have tough and

569
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 2: toughness and skills, I'm a lean in that. I think

570
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:41,520
Speaker 2: the question for Wiggins, and he'll have to show this

571
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:43,920
Speaker 2: when he gets into the league. Will he be tough

572
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:46,800
Speaker 2: enough to be more than just the old school one

573
00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:50,199
Speaker 2: dimensional cover corner that he kind of projects to be

574
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:51,480
Speaker 2: right now based on this tape.

575
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:54,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, my comp for him was d r C. For Wiggins,

576
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:55,280
Speaker 1: you know.

577
00:26:55,320 --> 00:27:00,320
Speaker 2: A good player, Roger, great player. DRC was a great player, fast, athletic,

578
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:00,560
Speaker 2: all that.

579
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:04,400
Speaker 1: All right, let's switch positions here, I'm going to go

580
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:06,720
Speaker 1: to all right, I'm going to go to the safety

581
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 1: position here, and these I don't have a safety in

582
00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:11,439
Speaker 1: my top fifty. So I'm going to give you two names.

583
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:14,120
Speaker 1: Put him side by side, who I have touching each other?

584
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:18,639
Speaker 1: But Jayden Hicks from Washington State had a good protein

585
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 1: and Cole Bishop, who blew it out at the combine.

586
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:23,440
Speaker 1: Those are the two that I have touching each other

587
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:26,280
Speaker 1: on my sequence list. So Jada Hicks from Washington State,

588
00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:28,480
Speaker 1: Cold Bishop from Utah.

589
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:30,439
Speaker 2: I mean both of those guys because the first thing

590
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:32,399
Speaker 2: that stands out to me is just the athleticism, the

591
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:36,199
Speaker 2: physicality from both As I'm looking at them, DJ, I

592
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:38,160
Speaker 2: know we're talking about them as position players. I'm trying

593
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 2: to figure out which one would be the more impactful

594
00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:43,920
Speaker 2: special teams player. For whatever reason, I don't know, man,

595
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:46,480
Speaker 2: Maybe Cole Bishop stands up to me, maybe because he

596
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:48,919
Speaker 2: was the last one that I watched, But there's something

597
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 2: about him that stands out to me in terms of

598
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 2: being a guy that can be a two phase player,

599
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:57,120
Speaker 2: someone that is solid in the rotation in the secondary,

600
00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:00,639
Speaker 2: or someone that immediately makes his mark as a specially player.

601
00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:03,159
Speaker 2: I like to Washington State kid too, But if you

602
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 2: had to ask me right now, I kind of lean

603
00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:07,280
Speaker 2: towards the Utah standout.

604
00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:10,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought I ended up having Washington State over

605
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:13,879
Speaker 1: him by one. Again they're touching the shower. But it's interesting.

606
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:18,160
Speaker 1: I go through my notes. I had questions about Hicks

607
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:20,439
Speaker 1: and his play speed when I watched him. Now he

608
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:22,960
Speaker 1: timed fine, so that's not an issue. I love the

609
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:26,480
Speaker 1: rugged way that he plays excellent blitzer. He's got good

610
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:30,480
Speaker 1: ball skills, takes good angles, good tackler, whereas Cole Bishop

611
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:32,679
Speaker 1: was kind of always just like Johnny on the Spot,

612
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:34,840
Speaker 1: like I thought he was super explosive. I love that

613
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:38,240
Speaker 1: he directs traffic. He's the communicator out there. They use

614
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:40,520
Speaker 1: him as a robber. He can cover tight ends. It's

615
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:43,880
Speaker 1: kind of funny because they're not my top fifty, so

616
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:46,800
Speaker 1: I haven't done like the Deep, like the deep comparison.

617
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:48,480
Speaker 1: I got to put my one to fifty, my final

618
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:50,600
Speaker 1: one to fifty together, and I'll go beyond the fifty

619
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:54,200
Speaker 1: and really do these this digging. But it's one of

620
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:56,719
Speaker 1: those deals where this is helpful when you write your

621
00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:58,360
Speaker 1: notes and then you go back through and go through

622
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:00,160
Speaker 1: them as I can look at and say, okay, I

623
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 1: have Hicks over Bishop, but when I read them and

624
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:07,560
Speaker 1: you have the discussion, I'm like, you know, what they

625
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 1: read reads better than Hicks does. So again that's probably

626
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 1: why this is healthy to.

627
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 2: Do this stuff, and so I think people have to understand,

628
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 2: so the listeners understand. So as a scout, one of

629
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:19,480
Speaker 2: the things that you do is you go through and

630
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 2: when you're on the road, you have a computer program

631
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:24,720
Speaker 2: that has all these things. It has all your critical factors,

632
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,960
Speaker 2: then it has your position specific things that you talk

633
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:31,480
Speaker 2: about each position, and then there's a part where you

634
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:33,880
Speaker 2: have a summary. And so that summary is kind of

635
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:36,640
Speaker 2: like your one liner what you really feel about the player.

636
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:39,200
Speaker 2: And if you're doing it the right way as a scout,

637
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:41,000
Speaker 2: you try to do that the same day that you

638
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:44,280
Speaker 2: see the player. So if I go to Utah today tonight,

639
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:46,160
Speaker 2: when I get to the hotel, I want to write

640
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:48,800
Speaker 2: that out. And sometimes what happens is you may have

641
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 2: a level of fatigue if you've been on a road

642
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:53,240
Speaker 2: for a while and you you know, you kind of

643
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 2: I won't say you get laxed, but your grades are different.

644
00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 2: And then when you go back and read, you're like, man,

645
00:29:58,320 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 2: when I read it. I really like this guy. I

646
00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 2: don't know why my grade doesn't reflect how it reads.

647
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 2: And so that's why reading the report is so different,

648
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 2: because sometimes coaches and gentlemen is to hear you read

649
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:13,000
Speaker 2: the report and they say like, I know you had

650
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 2: that great up there, but this guy reads a lot

651
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 2: better yep than that guy. John Fox was always auditory

652
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:20,520
Speaker 2: like that. He would hear you read the report. He

653
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 2: was like, I hear what you're saying with the grade,

654
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 2: but what I heard is a little different. Sounds a

655
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:27,760
Speaker 2: little different, happens.

656
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, one hundred percent. All right, I've got here's a

657
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 1: phone for your DT's. Johnny Newton is thirty second from me,

658
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:40,880
Speaker 1: and I've got Braden Fisk is at thirty eight. So

659
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 1: between those two defensive tackles, I lean towards Newton just

660
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:47,760
Speaker 1: the violent hands.

661
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 2: Uh.

662
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:50,760
Speaker 1: He's an excellent finisher. He's kind of got a little

663
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:55,880
Speaker 1: more polish, whereas Fisk, I think is more explosive. He can,

664
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 1: you know, play on edges, shoot gaps, you know those things.

665
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 1: But again, very close, good conversation, good debate.

666
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:04,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, good debate, and I'm with you on it. I

667
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:08,360
Speaker 2: would go with Newton over Fist if we let's wipe

668
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 2: away the combine, right, because I think the thing about

669
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 2: Fisk and the combine, it can filter into what you

670
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 2: think that he can be at the next level when

671
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 2: we just go off the tape. Johnny Newton is more active,

672
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:24,360
Speaker 2: more disruptive. He plays hard to the energy that he displays.

673
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:28,640
Speaker 2: Not that Fist doesn't play hard, but I think sometimes

674
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:31,880
Speaker 2: it's easy to get influenced by the look. He put

675
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 2: us spectacular numbers at the combine, but I can't say

676
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 2: that the impact production matches the athletics stuff that we

677
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 2: saw on tape. So Newton is a better player than

678
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 2: me off the tape. So I would continue to stay

679
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:46,440
Speaker 2: with Newton over top of Fists.

680
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:49,640
Speaker 1: Okay, let's keep it. Let's keep it moving here, let's

681
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:54,360
Speaker 1: go to some edge, guys. Well, I mean, shoot, I

682
00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:56,680
Speaker 1: can go right at the very top. I mean where

683
00:31:56,720 --> 00:32:02,920
Speaker 1: it's twelve fourteen to sixteen dollars Turner, Jared Verse, Latu.

684
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:04,960
Speaker 1: I mean, and I've talked to a bunch of teams

685
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 1: about this, and the orders are all over the map,

686
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:10,520
Speaker 1: and I've to me, there's an answer. One of the

687
00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 1: answers I got was you know a division, what division

688
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 1: you're in like, hey, look we're in a division where

689
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:20,320
Speaker 1: they run the ball and it's physical. And Jared Verse

690
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 1: is he's for us, like he's going to set the edge.

691
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:25,680
Speaker 1: He's going to play violent and physical. It's gonna have

692
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 1: some bad weather like he he works for us. Whors

693
00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 1: other teams like, look, we're in a dome, we're inside.

694
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 1: I need juice, and Dallas Turner's got all the juice,

695
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:37,840
Speaker 1: so I'll go with the Dallas Turner and then you

696
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:40,840
Speaker 1: have then you have. Other people would just say, look,

697
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:43,520
Speaker 1: I just need the best passor we have explosive offense.

698
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:45,720
Speaker 1: I need the skilled pass rusher. And Latu is the

699
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 1: best pass rusher of the bunch.

700
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:54,240
Speaker 2: Great debate, God, what a great conversation. So as I

701
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 2: have them, I have Turner, Lattu and Verse. And in

702
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:01,760
Speaker 2: terms of preference, if you ask me of the three,

703
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:04,720
Speaker 2: who's a better pass rusher, I would put Lots to

704
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:09,840
Speaker 2: number one, and then look, I would say Lot to

705
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:11,840
Speaker 2: number one. I think you can say Verse number two,

706
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:14,959
Speaker 2: then Turner number three, and then Turner has some other stuff.

707
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 2: Here's what I would say about a lot two medicals

708
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 2: had to be checked out. Having been around like great

709
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 2: pass rushers, there is something that he does. When I

710
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:28,240
Speaker 2: see him that, I'm like, Oh, he has it. It's

711
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:31,680
Speaker 2: the first step quickness is to get off DJ. He

712
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:34,000
Speaker 2: can go from the right or the left. He can

713
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 2: do it from a three point or stand up position.

714
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:40,520
Speaker 2: He can win with force or finesse. He has multiple

715
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:44,040
Speaker 2: pitches in the bag. It's NonStop when it comes to

716
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:47,520
Speaker 2: the motor and I'm partial to this when we talk

717
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:49,960
Speaker 2: to him at the end of the fall. We talked

718
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 2: to him on the pod and his ability to articulate

719
00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 2: Oh it was on the Senior Bowl show. I think, Yeah,

720
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:02,080
Speaker 2: his ability to art ticklate, his pass rush plan and

721
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:05,800
Speaker 2: how he goes about it really impressive. So I lean

722
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:08,320
Speaker 2: towards him. If it's a guy to have it pass rusher,

723
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:10,520
Speaker 2: I would go his way. Jared versus. I love the

724
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:13,400
Speaker 2: power and explosion this Dallas Turner. I think he probably

725
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:16,600
Speaker 2: is the best combination player. But if you want to

726
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:18,040
Speaker 2: pass ords, I think a lot too. Is the guy.

727
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:20,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's why I like to me, it's all different.

728
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:23,719
Speaker 1: Like if I asked you, if I said you're the

729
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:27,680
Speaker 1: Atlanta Falcons, I mean, I think Dallas Turner, I can

730
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:31,120
Speaker 1: I can make that case easy. Like he fits them

731
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:34,600
Speaker 1: to a t. But if you ask me about the

732
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:37,480
Speaker 1: Baltimore Ravens, I'd be like, well, Jared versus a rape,

733
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:38,040
Speaker 1: that's a raven.

734
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:41,919
Speaker 2: That's how they get physically overwhelm. You can bully bull

735
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:46,000
Speaker 2: into China shop. Yeah, kind of beat you up. Yeah.

736
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:48,720
Speaker 1: So that's why I think those You know, it's interesting.

737
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:51,319
Speaker 1: We don't have the luxury of having a philosophy or

738
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:54,279
Speaker 1: a team to scout for, so it changes how how

739
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:56,440
Speaker 1: you how you stack them. All right, let's get it.

740
00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:59,799
Speaker 1: Let's get a couple more here. We've talked about the

741
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:02,240
Speaker 1: earlier so I'm gonna I'm gonna skip over the interior

742
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:06,680
Speaker 1: offensive lineman. I'm gonna linebackers. We've talked about a bunch

743
00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:08,799
Speaker 1: on here, so I'm gonna get us. I'm gonna get

744
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:11,799
Speaker 1: us right to a tackle debate real quick, and then

745
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:13,680
Speaker 1: and then we'll get out to some receivers I want

746
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:15,520
Speaker 1: to touch on here as we come down the home stretch.

747
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:20,719
Speaker 1: Fashanu from Penn State, JC Latham for this versus Alabama

748
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:23,880
Speaker 1: for Alabama. So I have Fashanu is fifteen for me,

749
00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:28,200
Speaker 1: JC Latham is eighteen for me. So that's there's two

750
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:30,640
Speaker 1: different lineman debates. I want to get you on. So

751
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:33,520
Speaker 1: that's the first one for Shanu Penn State, Latham, Alabama.

752
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:35,480
Speaker 1: The next one is one I feel like is these

753
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:37,239
Speaker 1: guys have been neck and neck. They're touching each other.

754
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 1: On my sequence list, that's Mems and Guiding Mems from Georgia,

755
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:43,480
Speaker 1: Guiding from Oklahoma. But let's start first Penn State Alabama.

756
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:44,840
Speaker 1: Where do you come down on that one book?

757
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:48,480
Speaker 2: Okay, some it depends on what you're looking for. I

758
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:53,640
Speaker 2: would say this the the the projection, Uh Fishano is

759
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:55,759
Speaker 2: probably a better projection just in terms of like you

760
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:58,560
Speaker 2: fall in love with the athleticism and those things he's

761
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:02,840
Speaker 2: built like. He looks like a natural left tackle right now.

762
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:05,680
Speaker 2: I would say jac Latham to me is a better player.

763
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:10,280
Speaker 2: The physicality, the toughness he has, patience. He's a right tackle,

764
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:12,480
Speaker 2: but I think he has the combination of the people

765
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:15,440
Speaker 2: mover stuff that I want while also showing the balance

766
00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:18,600
Speaker 2: to be solid on the right side. For Seanu, and

767
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:20,640
Speaker 2: we used to talk about the left tackle being more

768
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:22,000
Speaker 2: marquee than a right I don't know if we can

769
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 2: still have that debate. But he looks natural, but he

770
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:27,800
Speaker 2: has some things that shows up that you're just like, Oh,

771
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:31,280
Speaker 2: I just wish that you could finish all the time.

772
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:34,480
Speaker 2: I think he's still a work in progress, whereas I

773
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:37,160
Speaker 2: feel like Latham is a little more polishing, a little

774
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:38,759
Speaker 2: more ready to play right now. If we had to

775
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:39,520
Speaker 2: play a game today.

776
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:42,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a tough one I have for Shanhu just

777
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:46,040
Speaker 1: over him, as I mentioned, but you've got power on

778
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:48,840
Speaker 1: Latham's side, I think for shan who's a more polished

779
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:51,600
Speaker 1: past protector at this point in time, I think I'd

780
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:54,120
Speaker 1: like to see him be more violent finish guys. I

781
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:56,120
Speaker 1: don't think he was totally healthy this year on that

782
00:36:56,239 --> 00:37:00,200
Speaker 1: side of it. But you know it's Latham was to

783
00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:02,239
Speaker 1: He was the catch me. I was a recruit for

784
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 1: a reason.

785
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:04,279
Speaker 2: He was the dog. He was the guy.

786
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 1: Yes, because it's just they had not many built like that.

787
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:12,120
Speaker 1: So I can understand eager either argument there. I think again,

788
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:14,400
Speaker 1: if I'm a team that has a left tackle in place,

789
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 1: I'm gonna want JC Latham to plug and play it

790
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:20,480
Speaker 1: as my right tackle I've got. Yeah, if I've got

791
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:22,759
Speaker 1: a whole left tackle, I could say maybe I can

792
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:24,640
Speaker 1: lean more towards the shina. So again, it comes down

793
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:25,160
Speaker 1: to the team.

794
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:26,920
Speaker 2: It comes down to the team. And that's also why

795
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:29,600
Speaker 2: it's important we talk about like need not being the

796
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:33,799
Speaker 2: driving force, but when it's close, then need comes into it,

797
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:37,160
Speaker 2: you know, like that's when the need happens to fall

798
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:39,040
Speaker 2: into place. But this next one is interesting.

799
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:43,080
Speaker 1: You talk about memes and guiding wre you go, man,

800
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:46,839
Speaker 1: I think it's thirteen starts versus eight starts. I think

801
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:47,920
Speaker 1: that's what the number is.

802
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:53,040
Speaker 2: I know, Memes is just massive, man, just like, yes,

803
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 2: he is just extra super extra large. But he has

804
00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:59,120
Speaker 2: the athleticism, I mean, just the raw ability that you

805
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:02,560
Speaker 2: just okay, man, if we can just get him to go,

806
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:06,680
Speaker 2: I think Guiden is probably more ready to play today,

807
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:09,040
Speaker 2: Like even though he has some stuff that he has

808
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:11,160
Speaker 2: to clean up that system where he had a lot

809
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:13,239
Speaker 2: of reps like them throwing the ball and doing all

810
00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:15,360
Speaker 2: this other stuff. To me, it still comes down to

811
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:19,160
Speaker 2: like schematic fit style. But I would go with guiding

812
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:22,719
Speaker 2: over Memes, which is funny because I have Memes in

813
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:26,880
Speaker 2: my top five night guidance Why But it's I would say,

814
00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:29,680
Speaker 2: if we had to pick, I think Giden is probably

815
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:31,400
Speaker 2: more ready to play.

816
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:33,640
Speaker 1: Yep, I have it the exact same way, so I

817
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:37,319
Speaker 1: have mems one spot over Giten. But and then I

818
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:40,399
Speaker 1: got one more update to go here. Uh, And that's

819
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:43,320
Speaker 1: what I'm constantly looking at. And I had this conversation

820
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:45,200
Speaker 1: with somebody over the weekend and we were talking about that,

821
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:49,239
Speaker 1: and he said, look, tomorrow is not promised. Today is like,

822
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 1: I need somebody I can who where's the trust meter?

823
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:53,279
Speaker 2: Basically mm hm.

824
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:55,560
Speaker 1: And I was like, if you phrase it that way,

825
00:38:56,080 --> 00:38:58,959
Speaker 1: I would give Giton the edge over Mims. Mem says

826
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:01,799
Speaker 1: hasn't posted, he just been out there. I think he's

827
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:04,160
Speaker 1: got I think Mims has more in his body. I

828
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:07,080
Speaker 1: think Mims could be his I mean, both these guys

829
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:09,279
Speaker 1: have crazy high ceilings. They're both almost six foot eight.

830
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:12,600
Speaker 1: You know, you got Mims is three forty, Guidens three twenty,

831
00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:17,760
Speaker 1: and they're mammoth human beings. But I think Mims has more.

832
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:21,160
Speaker 1: There's more in his body than Guidon has in his body.

833
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:23,080
Speaker 1: But right now, we got to go play tomorrow. I

834
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:25,759
Speaker 1: need somebody to start seventeen games next season and play

835
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:28,440
Speaker 1: winning football. I think I would probably I would probably

836
00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:30,200
Speaker 1: flip it, and I would probably lean towards Guyon in

837
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:30,720
Speaker 1: that scenario.

838
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:33,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think Mams is a little more

839
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:36,399
Speaker 2: of a luxury. You know, Mims would be great. He'd

840
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:38,880
Speaker 2: be great with the Philadelphia Eagles because how they.

841
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:41,240
Speaker 1: Sit for a year. Oh the coach was, oh kiddy

842
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:43,200
Speaker 1: Stoutlin would have him rocking and rolling, you know.

843
00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:45,480
Speaker 2: What I mean? Like he would be ay, no need

844
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 2: to play right now. We get guys a year early.

845
00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:50,439
Speaker 2: We're going to make sure you know how to play

846
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:52,640
Speaker 2: before you do it. And then big Feller, we're gonna

847
00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:55,480
Speaker 2: get you ready to go in a situation where we

848
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:57,360
Speaker 2: need to play. We got to play right now with

849
00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:00,399
Speaker 2: one you're guiding to me, I think you can get

850
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:04,120
Speaker 2: away with what he does, and even his flaws right

851
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:06,880
Speaker 2: now are are coachable and fixable. I think he is

852
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:08,360
Speaker 2: more ready to play. If we had to kick it

853
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:11,560
Speaker 2: off week one, I would go with guiding over mems.

854
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:14,440
Speaker 1: Yep, I love it. We've talked about running backs a

855
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:18,440
Speaker 1: bunch previously. I'm gonna skip over tight ends as well.

856
00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:20,480
Speaker 1: We got a little bit of time, a little time

857
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:22,160
Speaker 1: we have remaining. I want to hit you on a

858
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:26,600
Speaker 1: two wide receiver. Questions here, guys that I have really

859
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:28,600
Speaker 1: close shows, Let's start with this one. To me, this

860
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:30,080
Speaker 1: is the main event. This is a fun one, and

861
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:32,000
Speaker 1: it ain't It ain't the guys up at two, three four.

862
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:36,400
Speaker 1: We've talked about them forever. I'm talking about My thirty

863
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:39,719
Speaker 1: fourth player is Lad McConkie. My thirty fifth player is

864
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:42,520
Speaker 1: Xavier Worthy. Where would you come down on that one bucko?

865
00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:47,319
Speaker 2: So it's very similar to the conversation we were having

866
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:51,640
Speaker 2: about the tackles. What do we need right now? Ladd

867
00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:54,839
Speaker 2: McConkie to me, is very easy to slide in and

868
00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:57,440
Speaker 2: put him in eleven personnel that the slot and go

869
00:40:57,480 --> 00:41:00,600
Speaker 2: to work. He's a great route runner, does all those

870
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:03,200
Speaker 2: things that you look for. And when he came in studio,

871
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:05,160
Speaker 2: he came in studio last week and had a chance

872
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:07,759
Speaker 2: to talk DJ. You know how we fall in love

873
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:10,839
Speaker 2: with the high IQ guys that are craftsmen. We've said

874
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:14,120
Speaker 2: at time and time again, those guys play Xavier Worthy,

875
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:18,799
Speaker 2: I mean Xavier Leggett. That's what you said, right, let xavier' Worthy.

876
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:21,960
Speaker 2: I had Xavier Worthy from Texas, Okay, so xavier' Worthy.

877
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:26,120
Speaker 2: So now Zavi Worthy is interesting because the vertical stretch,

878
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:30,480
Speaker 2: like what he brings or whatever. I've seen this comparison.

879
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:35,000
Speaker 2: It made me pause. Deshaun Jackson comparison in terms.

880
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:36,400
Speaker 1: Of yeah, I think I used Hollywood.

881
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:41,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think mcconkie' is a better player. I like

882
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:45,600
Speaker 2: the the stuff that Worthy brings as a vertical playmaker,

883
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:47,279
Speaker 2: but I think it's really important that we put him

884
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:51,320
Speaker 2: in the right role to maximize what it can be. Mconkie,

885
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:53,680
Speaker 2: I think the role doesn't matter as much we put

886
00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:56,359
Speaker 2: him on the field. To me, he finds a way

887
00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:58,319
Speaker 2: to be successful. He finds a way to give us

888
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:01,400
Speaker 2: five six catches a game just because of his is

889
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:02,760
Speaker 2: polished mhm.

890
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:05,800
Speaker 1: I think if I was I have mconkee one spot

891
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:07,879
Speaker 1: over him. But I can make the case either way

892
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:10,240
Speaker 1: if I if I have a higher grade on Xavier Worthy.

893
00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:13,480
Speaker 1: My argument in the in the draft room is simple.

894
00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:16,840
Speaker 1: It's like, guys, there's guys on here that're gonna catch balls.

895
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:18,759
Speaker 1: There's guys on here that gonna get touchdowns, there's guys

896
00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:21,480
Speaker 1: here gonna get third downs. But which player can we

897
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:25,719
Speaker 1: draft that will benefit our quarterback, our run game, and

898
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:28,200
Speaker 1: all the other receivers. Even if he does not touch

899
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:30,240
Speaker 1: a football, if we don't throw it to him one time,

900
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:34,040
Speaker 1: his feet, his speed will be felt every single down.

901
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:36,360
Speaker 1: He's gonna scare safeties out of the box, which is

902
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:38,520
Speaker 1: gonna help our run game. He's going to free up

903
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:39,960
Speaker 1: room in the middle of the field for our tight

904
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:42,640
Speaker 1: ends because he's gonna blow the top off coverage. So

905
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:46,120
Speaker 1: even before he catches a pass, Xavier Worthy is gonna

906
00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:48,200
Speaker 1: have an impact on our team. That would be if

907
00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:49,680
Speaker 1: I was gonna make the case for him and the

908
00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:50,880
Speaker 1: draft froom, that'd be argument.

909
00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:53,080
Speaker 2: And I believe that. So here here's the thing that

910
00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:56,399
Speaker 2: we do. Now. When you put up Combine as fast

911
00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:58,680
Speaker 2: as man, no matter what, it makes his way into

912
00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:02,640
Speaker 2: every defensive scoleningyport, every dB that lines up opposite him,

913
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:05,799
Speaker 2: they know that he is fast. That forces you to

914
00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:08,439
Speaker 2: back up that you have to give him a level

915
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 2: of respect, just based on the time I had a

916
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:14,080
Speaker 2: college coach who wasn't even an offensive coach, but a

917
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:16,799
Speaker 2: defensive coach kind of tell me early he said, even

918
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:18,920
Speaker 2: if you struggle with hands or whatever. He said, when

919
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:21,080
Speaker 2: you have that kind of speed, if we thought over

920
00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:23,560
Speaker 2: top of the defense two times a game, that's fourteen points.

921
00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:27,960
Speaker 2: That right there is worth the price of admission. So

922
00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:31,160
Speaker 2: there is something to that part of it. And it's

923
00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:34,080
Speaker 2: just really about casting him in the right role so

924
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:37,279
Speaker 2: he can utilize his speed and be the threat not

925
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:41,600
Speaker 2: only vertically but horizontally to create problems and force defensive

926
00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:43,600
Speaker 2: coordinators to account for him on every dam.

927
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 1: Yep, and look Worthy had some drop issues the year before,

928
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:50,319
Speaker 1: caught it better this year at Makonki. I have him

929
00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:51,560
Speaker 1: over him just he's a better I think he's a

930
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:55,319
Speaker 1: better overall player. Can do everything. Again, he needs to

931
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:58,480
Speaker 1: stay healthy and post consistently. If he does that, I

932
00:43:58,480 --> 00:43:59,960
Speaker 1: have no doubt my mind, he's gonna be really good.

933
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:02,200
Speaker 1: All right, last one I mentioned, I'll give you two here.

934
00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:05,760
Speaker 1: This next one my final one. I have Malachi Corley

935
00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:08,919
Speaker 1: from Western Kentucky at forty five, and I have Rowan

936
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:13,600
Speaker 1: Wilson from Michigan at forty seven. So between those two guys,

937
00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:14,600
Speaker 1: separate those two.

938
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:18,000
Speaker 2: Oh man, what a good one. What a good one?

939
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:20,040
Speaker 2: I mean, really really, this is fun. This is what

940
00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:21,560
Speaker 2: we do in the draft room too. That if you're

941
00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:24,040
Speaker 2: listening to this, going like, okay, so what's it like

942
00:44:24,080 --> 00:44:25,000
Speaker 2: inside the draft froom?

943
00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:27,040
Speaker 1: This is it. This is at this point time, guys,

944
00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:29,279
Speaker 1: We've got the bulk of our board set. But there's

945
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:31,239
Speaker 1: a couple ties we need to break here. So let's

946
00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:32,040
Speaker 1: have the discussion.

947
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:35,600
Speaker 2: Okay, So this is funny. So I'm looking at my list,

948
00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:40,319
Speaker 2: I have Wilson over top of Corley. But then I'm

949
00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:43,760
Speaker 2: reading the report and it's weird. So I say, Wilson

950
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:47,120
Speaker 2: perfect blend of speed, quickness at the position, impeccable timing,

951
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:50,040
Speaker 2: is a route runner, reliable option as a designated chain mover.

952
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:53,920
Speaker 2: Corley might be the most natural slot receiver in the class.

953
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:57,520
Speaker 2: I was standing running with the ball in his hands terrific,

954
00:44:57,560 --> 00:44:59,880
Speaker 2: balanced by the control, running through arm tackles, on bubbles,

955
00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:07,560
Speaker 2: some quick routes. So I have Wilson over top of Corley,

956
00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:10,480
Speaker 2: but I would probably take Coley over Wilson.

957
00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:14,560
Speaker 1: That's what I have Corley over Wilson. I just think

958
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:17,720
Speaker 1: about the one thing he does. He does something better

959
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:20,040
Speaker 1: than anybody else in the draft. That means something.

960
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:24,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean he is. He is fantastic. I mean

961
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:27,799
Speaker 2: he is. He is fantastic in the slot. The way

962
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:30,200
Speaker 2: he works around and gets busy. He he can do it.

963
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:32,920
Speaker 2: And I really like Roman Wilson. Roman Wilson is tough

964
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:36,200
Speaker 2: and he's competitive and all that. But Corley has just

965
00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:38,719
Speaker 2: a little something which is so funny that I have

966
00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:41,880
Speaker 2: him ranked literally once by the head of Corley. But

967
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:44,440
Speaker 2: then I read I read the summery, and I'm like, oh,

968
00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:47,759
Speaker 2: it sounds like I like to Western Kentucky got a

969
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:48,239
Speaker 2: little better.

970
00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:51,919
Speaker 1: I'm looking this up here real quick. Okay, So let's

971
00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:57,200
Speaker 1: say be too early there at thirty four about to me, like,

972
00:45:57,239 --> 00:46:01,959
Speaker 1: if I'm Washington, Washington has thirty six and forty, right,

973
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:04,120
Speaker 1: So they pick and second, let's say they take whatever

974
00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:08,319
Speaker 1: Drake made, Jayden Daniels, whoever. Whichever quarterback they pick, they

975
00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:11,000
Speaker 1: pick thirty six and forty. To me, I'm taking one

976
00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:12,920
Speaker 1: of those, and I'm moving back and getting extra picks

977
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:15,120
Speaker 1: like that's I don't need to pick thirty six and forty.

978
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:17,600
Speaker 1: But if I can get, if I can get, you know,

979
00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:21,000
Speaker 1: trade from forty to forty six, forty to fifty, forty

980
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:25,440
Speaker 1: to fifty five. Man, I have a young quarterback. Malachi

981
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:29,200
Speaker 1: Corley gives me three to four easy completions every game.

982
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:32,640
Speaker 1: I can freaking I can. I can jet sweep them,

983
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:35,520
Speaker 1: I can, I can throw them bubbles. I can do.

984
00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:37,719
Speaker 1: You can give me three to four easy ones a game.

985
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:40,560
Speaker 2: Well, thing about how we now can can fill out

986
00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:43,799
Speaker 2: the wide receiver corp scary chair McClone on one side, Johan

987
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:46,319
Speaker 2: Dottson former first round pick. On the other side, you

988
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:50,799
Speaker 2: have Corley working in the slot. We have quick run

989
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:54,840
Speaker 2: after catch playmakers and before you get in, particularly like

990
00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:57,279
Speaker 2: a Jayden Daniels who really excels at the intermediate thing.

991
00:46:57,320 --> 00:46:58,719
Speaker 2: Way we can get it out. We're gonna let those

992
00:46:58,719 --> 00:47:02,879
Speaker 2: playmakers run. Yeah, it kind of works because we talked

993
00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:04,520
Speaker 2: about it with your quarterback. You got to make sure

994
00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:07,120
Speaker 2: you build your offense in the personnel around the quarterback

995
00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:11,880
Speaker 2: to its talents, and that'd be the thing that Ap

996
00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:14,480
Speaker 2: and dan Quinn have to do. They got to make

997
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:16,799
Speaker 2: sure that they have the talent around the quarterback that

998
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:19,120
Speaker 2: they pick to allow him to be at his best.

999
00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:23,799
Speaker 1: Yep, this has been fun man, fun discussion, Buck. I

1000
00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:26,080
Speaker 1: know you you got more work going on today. You

1001
00:47:26,080 --> 00:47:28,120
Speaker 1: got to get to it, man, but this was a

1002
00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:29,719
Speaker 1: fun one man. Anything else you want to add before

1003
00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:30,520
Speaker 1: we jump out of here.

1004
00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:32,880
Speaker 2: I love these conversations. This is what it would be like.

1005
00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:35,560
Speaker 2: This would be as we as guys are coming back

1006
00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:38,279
Speaker 2: into the meeting room those last couple of weeks before

1007
00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:40,680
Speaker 2: they get into the draft. These are the conversations that

1008
00:47:40,719 --> 00:47:42,919
Speaker 2: we have on the daily trying to finalize and kind

1009
00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:46,759
Speaker 2: of like button up that draft board. It's about making

1010
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:49,000
Speaker 2: sure that we have the players stacked in the right

1011
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:51,359
Speaker 2: order so when it comes to draft day, we don't

1012
00:47:51,360 --> 00:47:53,640
Speaker 2: have to have any hesitation or reluctance making a pick.

1013
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:56,440
Speaker 1: No doubt. Hope you guys have enjoyed it. It's been

1014
00:47:56,480 --> 00:47:59,399
Speaker 1: fun for us having this discussion. We'll keep you, we'll

1015
00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:01,000
Speaker 1: keep you going on here as we get towards a

1016
00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:03,440
Speaker 1: draft with these UH, with these draft debates and UH

1017
00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:05,439
Speaker 1: and we'll let you know whatever information that we're hearing

1018
00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:07,480
Speaker 1: as we go forward. So that's going to do it

1019
00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:08,719
Speaker 1: for us today. I hope you guys have enjoyed it.

1020
00:48:08,719 --> 00:48:10,680
Speaker 1: Appreciate you if you can leave us a rating and

1021
00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:13,680
Speaker 1: a review, we love those. Appreciate it if you do

1022
00:48:13,719 --> 00:48:15,600
Speaker 1: that for us, and we'll see you next time right

1023
00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:16,439
Speaker 1: here on move stick.