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Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to Weird House Cinema. Rewind. Today we are

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Speaker 1: re airing our July fourth episode from last year. It

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Speaker 1: is the nineteen ninety nine Frontier cannibal horror film Ravenous.

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Speaker 1: It was a real joy to revisit this film. I

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Speaker 1: feel like it is just as strong today as it

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Speaker 1: was back when it came out, and has just as

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Speaker 1: much to say, some strong performances throughout. Big fan of

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Speaker 1: this movie and happy to share this episode with you

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Speaker 1: once more.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to Weird House Cinema. This is Rob Lamb

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Speaker 1: and this is Joe McCormick. Today is July the fourth

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Speaker 1: Independence Day in the United States, as many of our

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Speaker 1: American listeners can attest to, and I think our international

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Speaker 1: listeners can also attest to to varying degrees and understand,

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Speaker 1: national patriotic holidays like this can be really weird to process.

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Speaker 1: They are at their they're very least a time of

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Speaker 1: celebrating certain ideals while often ignoring the more complex or

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Speaker 1: even problematic elements of a nation's history and place in

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Speaker 1: the world. I often find myself just like end up

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Speaker 1: with a day off on the on the fourth, and

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Speaker 1: I'm just like, what am I doing? What? What's the

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Speaker 1: game plan? I guess I'll watch some fireworks and you know,

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Speaker 1: this year I made some space for today's.

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Speaker 3: Movie, oh, on the fourth of July itself, or just

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Speaker 3: an advance of like are you gonna watch it again

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Speaker 3: on the fourth?

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Speaker 1: Who knows what I'll do? But I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: given publication delays, you know, I couldn't actually watch it

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Speaker 1: on the fourth, but in anticipation of the fourth.

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Speaker 3: I see, typically if we watch a movie on the

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Speaker 3: fourth of July, it's Jaws, that's you know, for obvious reasons.

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Speaker 3: Fourth of July is a big holiday. In the narrative

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Speaker 3: of Jaws, It's very much a summer movie. And I

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Speaker 3: don't know, it just kind of feels right, especially if

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Speaker 3: the day involves, like otherwise being outdoors or barbecuing or something.

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Speaker 3: At some point you come inside, sit down and watch Jaws.

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Speaker 3: I think we we haven't really done this fully and

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Speaker 3: in a few years since my daughter was born, But

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Speaker 3: I don't know, I think we're working our way back

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Speaker 3: up to it at some point. And another tradition we

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Speaker 3: used to have. This may sound a little bit cheesy,

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Speaker 3: but so we used to like read Walt Whitman out

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Speaker 3: loud in our house on the fourth of July. It's

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Speaker 3: it's a good thing to do. I recommend that nice.

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Speaker 1: Nice. Well, these are both solid, solid choices, especially Jaws,

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Speaker 1: and because again the greatest primordial summer blockbuster in many respects.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's set the set the blueprint for blockbusters

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Speaker 1: to follow. But also, you know, Jaws, in its own

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Speaker 1: interesting way at least dips its toes into some contemplation

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Speaker 1: about America.

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Speaker 3: Hmm, I have to think about that. Okay, yeah, I.

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Speaker 1: Think it's it's in there. But the picture that we've

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Speaker 1: selected here is nineteen ninety nine's Ravenous. Of note, this

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Speaker 1: is only our second nineteen ninety nine film. The only

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Speaker 1: other film from nineteen ninety nine that we've watched is

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Speaker 1: Deep Blue Sea, a shark movie.

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Speaker 3: Oh okay, interesting connection. You know, maybe it's not just

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Speaker 3: the narrative of Jaws that ties into the Fourth of July.

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Speaker 3: There is something very American feeling about the subgenre of

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Speaker 3: the shark film that's just part of the national identity.

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Speaker 3: Looking for connections between Deep Blue Sea and Ravenous. Not

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Speaker 3: a huge amount in terms of I don't know the

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Speaker 3: feel or content, but I guess they're both very much

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Speaker 3: about eating.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Deep Blue Sy very much feels like a nineteen

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Speaker 1: ninety nine film. Ravenous in many ways just really feels

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Speaker 1: out of place, Like it feels like maybe its soul

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Speaker 1: is more seated I don't know, in the nineteen seventies

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Speaker 1: or or in a way it's almost like a blueprint

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Speaker 1: of things that might come later. And as well as

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Speaker 1: I don't think anybody knew what to do with this

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Speaker 1: film when it came out in nineteen ninety nine, no

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Speaker 1: one knew how to market it, and no but and

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Speaker 1: a lot of people didn't really know how to receive it.

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Speaker 3: It is one of those artifacts like floating outside of time.

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Speaker 3: It feels like it doesn't really fit in exactly anywhere.

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Speaker 3: It is a strange. There are strange anachronisms within it,

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Speaker 3: like this is a period movie set in the eighteen forties,

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Speaker 3: and something I think, especially about the sound track leans

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Speaker 3: a little bit into the sound of a nineteenth century music,

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Speaker 3: you know. It involves like some accordion voicings and banjos

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Speaker 3: and fiddles and things like that, but also has these

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Speaker 3: electronic elements that kind of pull it out of the

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Speaker 3: time space in which you're supposed to be imagining it,

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Speaker 3: and it as a result, it does kind of feel

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Speaker 3: like this this alien object that's just kind of like

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Speaker 3: inserted randomly into the last one hundred years of culture. Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: The soundtrack, the score, especially as we'll discuss, gives it

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Speaker 1: this kind of vibe of something ancient that is clawing

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Speaker 1: its way up into the modern world. So I originally

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Speaker 1: saw this one back more or less when it first

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Speaker 1: came out. I did not see it in the theaters.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how many people actually did. I caught

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Speaker 1: it on home video, maybe even VHS, I'm not sure.

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Speaker 1: Probably it's probably DVD. This was a time when DVD

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Speaker 1: was really getting into the vibe. But I have to

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Speaker 1: say it really impressed me back then. I was a

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Speaker 1: rather different person back then, but it still impressed me

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Speaker 1: when I rewatched it today. I think it certainly has

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Speaker 1: its flaws, and we'll touch on some of those, but

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Speaker 1: it's quite exceptional in its rumination on its central thesis,

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Speaker 1: which it rolls out I think with enough care and

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Speaker 1: nuance that it invites us to further ruminate on what

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Speaker 1: this film means and what it's saying without transforming the

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Speaker 1: picture into a kind of blunt instrument of social or

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Speaker 1: political commentary.

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Speaker 3: You know, something about the setting in time and place,

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Speaker 3: and the fact that it takes place among kind of

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Speaker 3: military officers within, you know, a couple of decades of

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Speaker 3: the US Civil War makes it feel like it should

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Speaker 3: have some kind of political historical commentary. Whatever political historical

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Speaker 3: commentary is there, feels kind of subtle to me. I

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Speaker 3: would say overall, the main themes are more of a

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Speaker 3: classic morality struggle, but with Gonzo Freddy Krueger elements.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's right. Yeah, I think it ultimately

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Speaker 1: strikes a nice balance in its commentary. I do think

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Speaker 1: if it had been made ten years ago instead of

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Speaker 1: twenty six years ago, I think it would have been

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Speaker 1: more aggressive in its critique. I think it might have

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Speaker 1: been a little blunter and and I don't know, it's

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Speaker 1: these are big what ifs, but I can easily imagine

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Speaker 1: a picture that was ultimately less successful. So, if you're

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Speaker 1: not familiar with nineteen ninety nine Ravenous, this is a

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Speaker 1: weird one. Ravenus is a frontier cannibal movie set in

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Speaker 1: eighteen forties California. It draws clear inspiration from both the

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Speaker 1: Donner Party and then and the confessions of alleged cannibal

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Speaker 1: Alfred Packer, And there's also a dash of Windigo of

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Speaker 1: lore from Algonquin folklore. Now, given this premise, you might

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Speaker 1: well expect a couple of different possible treatments. You might think, Okay,

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Speaker 1: this is gonna be an exploitive horror movie. This is

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Speaker 1: gonna be like a gonzo maybe even euro cannibal film

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Speaker 1: like we saw in the seventies and eighties, including Cannibal Apocalypse,

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Speaker 1: which we've covered on Weird House Cinema, partially filmed right

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Speaker 1: over here in Decatur.

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Speaker 3: I'd say there are some special effects sequences that are

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Speaker 3: similar to Cannibal Apocalypse. Yeah, there's some kind of shoving

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Speaker 3: of organs into the mouth.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they definitely. They definitely get in there and paint

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Speaker 1: with those brushstrokes. But at the same time, it doesn't

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Speaker 1: really go overboard there either. I wouldn't set so if

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Speaker 1: you come into this wanting like a complete gore fest,

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Speaker 1: it might not deliver, certainly by sort of like fangoria standards.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: At the same time, yeah, you might think, well, this

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Speaker 1: is about cannibalism, and cannibalism is inherently funny. There's no

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Speaker 1: denying it. No matter how serious your treatment of cannibalism is,

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Speaker 1: you can't help but get a yuck in there, you know,

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Speaker 1: somewhere or another, in part because cannibalism is such a

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Speaker 1: dark topic. But then there it also there are just

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Speaker 1: so many potentially humorous wrinkles to the concept.

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Speaker 3: Cannibalism really lends itself to puns and word play, a

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Speaker 3: little double on tondras in sentences. Have you noticed that

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Speaker 3: I feel like almost more than basically anything except sex,

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Speaker 3: cannibalism is just like the double on tundras leap out

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Speaker 3: of the language for you, right, and.

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Speaker 1: Then they often go back into sex as well. So

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Speaker 1: it's just it's all over the place. And so you

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Speaker 1: might well think, well, this is going to be a

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Speaker 1: you know, a grizzly comedy, maybe along the lines of

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Speaker 1: Trey Parker's Cannibal the Musical, which came out in nineteen

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Speaker 1: ninety three, based in part on the Alfred Packer account

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Speaker 1: which I just referenced. And it to be clear, this

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Speaker 1: film does have its intentional laughs, but it also shows

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Speaker 1: a great deal of restraint here as well.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there is I would say a good bit of

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Speaker 3: humor in this movie, but it's way less overt than

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Speaker 3: in Cannibal the musical. I mean, this is not, in

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Speaker 3: any sense played for comedy. Instead, it's one of those

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Speaker 3: It's a dark story that is through and through dark

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Speaker 3: on its face, and I think the viewer is expected

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Speaker 3: to find little ironic amusements throughout it, you know, like

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Speaker 3: you're having a little chuckle, but there's nothing, no juicy

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Speaker 3: comedy happening on screen.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so I think it's generally on the money to

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Speaker 1: think of Ravenous as a horror film. Absolutely. I'm not

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Speaker 1: going to make an argument that it doesn't belong in

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Speaker 1: that section of the video rental store, but I think

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Speaker 1: when you look at it, yeah, it also tends to

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Speaker 1: defy categorization in other ways, and I think the studio

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Speaker 1: clearly didn't know what to make of it. Audiences and

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Speaker 1: critics also tended to respond as such. I believe Ebert

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Speaker 1: really liked it, but I think a lot of people

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Speaker 1: just didn't know what to make of it. No one

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Speaker 1: really knew what to do with a serious minded cannibal

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Speaker 1: slash sort of vampire frontier film, reflecting on, you know,

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Speaker 1: to a certain extent, on the dark side of American

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Speaker 1: destiny and capitalism or at least human nature.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean nothing marketers hate more than something that

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Speaker 3: takes too many words to describe. Yes, it's just like

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Speaker 3: hard to market something that doesn't really fit its jenre

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Speaker 3: tropes very well.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and as such, the original marketing for this film

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Speaker 1: is just I mostly just hate all of it. I

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Speaker 1: hate all the posters in box art for it. All

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Speaker 1: of it's just kind of like ugly looking. I don't

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Speaker 1: like the trailer, and I don't think any of this

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Speaker 1: has changed. It's weird, like, this is a film that

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Speaker 1: has definitely developed its own cult following over the years,

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Speaker 1: and it's readily available. It's been re released, you know,

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Speaker 1: in Blu ray and so forth, but the packaging is

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Speaker 1: still more or less the same. I picked up the

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Speaker 1: box at at Video Drome here in Atlanta, and it's

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Speaker 1: on the recent Shout Factory release, which is very nice

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Speaker 1: as all these extras that were originally on the DVD release.

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Speaker 1: And it's the same description the box states quote it's

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Speaker 1: a recipe for NonStop action and excitement when the inhabitants

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Speaker 1: of an isolated military outpost go up against a marauding

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Speaker 1: band of cannibals in a deadly struggle for survival.

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Speaker 3: That doesn't even accurately describe the plot. No, but then

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Speaker 3: it also gets the tone roll.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, the tone is totally incorrect here, Like, I

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Speaker 1: love this film, but it is not a recipe for

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Speaker 1: NonStop action and excitement.

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Speaker 3: It is Also it's not that this makes it sound

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Speaker 3: like it's like a bunch of soldiers having a shootout

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Speaker 3: with a cannibal gang that had like it's mad Max

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Speaker 3: or something.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, or maybe the thing. You know, there's some comparisons

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Speaker 1: to be made there, but yeah, totally different vibe.

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Speaker 3: It's actually closer to the thing than what this makes

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Speaker 3: it sound like.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, So my alternate elevator pitch for this would

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Speaker 1: be cannibalism American style. But even that makes it sound

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Speaker 1: like it's going to be more of a comedy than

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Speaker 1: it actually is.

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Speaker 3: If I could give it a slightly pretentious elevator pitch,

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Speaker 3: I'll cite a line from the movie. The characters in

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Speaker 3: the movie discuss a believe a Benjamin Franklin quote where

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Speaker 3: they say, eat to live, don't live to eat. Now,

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Speaker 3: that's an interesting aphorism. This movie explores what that aphorism

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Speaker 3: means when you have to interrogate the meaning of both

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Speaker 3: live and eat.

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Speaker 1: Yes, all right, I'm gonna skip the trailer since I've

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Speaker 1: already established that I don't really like it. I would recommend,

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Speaker 1: I even if you've not seen the film, I'd recommend

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Speaker 1: just going in cold and experiencing it. And you know,

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Speaker 1: don't even look at the box, don't even look at

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Speaker 1: the posters. But but if you want to watch it

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Speaker 1: on your own, it is widely available for digital rent

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Speaker 1: and purchase. The Shout Factory Blu ray is definitely the

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Speaker 1: pick for physical media. It contains numerous extras, including no

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Speaker 1: fewer than three commentary tracks. I believe these were on

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Speaker 1: the original release. This is just that period I believe

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Speaker 1: for excitement for regarding disc extras, so they just went

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Speaker 1: all out.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if the original release

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Speaker 3: of this movie on DVD had little like little Easter

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Speaker 3: eggs in the menus. Oh yes, something you could like

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Speaker 3: navigate over to and click and it would play like

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Speaker 3: a I don't know, you'd have like a dancing Robert

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Speaker 3: Carlyle and.

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Speaker 1: Oh absolutely, yeah, yeah, this is when they did all

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Speaker 1: of that stuff, and I have to admit I haven't

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Speaker 1: really gone into the extras on the disc. I feel

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Speaker 1: like this is sometimes I really like to do that

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Speaker 1: with the film for a weird House and get more

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Speaker 1: of the backstory. This, I really feel like, is a

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Speaker 1: film that just speaks so well for itself as itself.

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Speaker 1: But you know, sometime down the line, I might really

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Speaker 1: get into the extras because they look really good. You've

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Speaker 1: got Carlisle and Bird doing a commentary track, You've got

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Speaker 1: you know, various other individuals involved in the production, and yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure it's all really good stuff.

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Speaker 3: One thing I would say before we go any further

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Speaker 3: is that, of course, always on Weird House Cinema, we

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Speaker 3: end up talking about the plot in some amount of

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Speaker 3: detail as we go on, and that will include spoilers

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Speaker 3: for the story. In cases where I think, you know,

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Speaker 3: you might want to go in without anything spoiled, I

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Speaker 3: throw a warning up. I think this is probably one

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Speaker 3: of those. This is a movie where you might want

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Speaker 3: to watch it without any of the surprises ruined. So

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Speaker 3: so fair warning, folks. If you haven't seen the movie

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Speaker 3: you feel like you want to, this might be a

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Speaker 3: good place to pause and go check it out before

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Speaker 3: listening further.

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Speaker 1: All right, we've given you the warning, so now we're

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Speaker 1: going to get into the meat of the people involved

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Speaker 1: in this production, starting at the top. The director to

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Speaker 1: hear is Antonia Byrd, who lived nineteen fifty one through

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Speaker 1: twenty thirteen English TV and film director and also occasional producer.

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Speaker 1: Her TV credits go back to the early eighties, working

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Speaker 1: on various series and TV movies, including some work in

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Speaker 1: the long running series EastEnders. In ninety four, she directed

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Speaker 1: the film Priest starring Linus Roach, Tom Wilkinson and Robert Carlyle,

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Speaker 1: which earned her a BAFF denomination among other honors. She

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Speaker 1: followed this up with nineteen ninety five's Mad Love, no

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Speaker 1: relation to the Peter Lourie picture. This one starred Chris

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Speaker 1: o'donnald and Drew Barrymore. But what if it had been

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Speaker 1: a remake of Mad.

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Speaker 3: Love starring Chris O'Donnell Andrew Chris O'Donnell as.

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Speaker 1: In the role of a lifetime in the Peter Lourie role.

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Speaker 3: Amazing.

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Speaker 1: She also did nineteen ninety seven's Face, a crime drama

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Speaker 1: starring Robert Carlyle alongside ray Winston. Ravenous would be her

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Speaker 1: last feature film, but she continued to work in television,

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Speaker 1: directing a handful of TV movies and episodes of show

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Speaker 1: like I five and Cracker. She was one of the

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Speaker 1: UK's leading female directors by many estimates. She sadly passed

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Speaker 1: away following a battle with cancer. Now it is important

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Speaker 1: to include a brief note about the production here. So

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Speaker 1: first of all, just incidentally, this movie was filmed primarily

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Speaker 1: in Slovakia and the Czech Republic, So I think all

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Speaker 1: of these scenes that are supposed to be the American

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Speaker 1: Frontier are actually Europe. And then the scenes that take

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Speaker 1: place in Mexico were actually filmed in Mexico.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 1: Bird was apparently a last minute replacement for a different director,

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Speaker 1: a Macedonian director, Milt show Manchewski, And I'm not sure

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Speaker 1: on the details there ultimately not important, but amid discussions

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Speaker 1: of who are we going to get into who's going

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Speaker 1: to step in and direct this picture? Now we're getting

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Speaker 1: down to the last minute. You know, the cast, everything,

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Speaker 1: all these these expensive pieces are in place, and it's

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Speaker 1: Robert Carlyle who reportedly suggested that they get Bird done.

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Speaker 1: His previous work with her.

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Speaker 3: It was clearly a good move. You can feel something

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Speaker 3: about something that is really working in this movie is

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Speaker 3: a kind of playfulness and a freedom to experiment that

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Speaker 3: I think you can feel coming from the top. At

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Speaker 3: least that's my sense in watching it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I believe that's the sense that you get

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Speaker 1: when you read interview pieces from Carlisle about the picture.

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Speaker 1: So he had worked with her on episodes of TVs

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Speaker 1: The Bill Cracker, as well as an anthology series called Screenplay.

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Speaker 1: The episode that Bird directed was a nineteen ninety three

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Speaker 1: episode titled Safe that centered around homelessness and also feature

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Speaker 1: Aidan Gillen and Kate Hardy. So yeah, he always he

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Speaker 1: seems like he always spoke very highly of citing her

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Speaker 1: collaborative spirit and her on set demeanor. In a nineteen

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Speaker 1: ninety nine interview with The Guardian that, to be clear,

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Speaker 1: was promoting this picture, he said the following about power

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Speaker 1: dynamics on productions, Antonia is very different from most directors

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Speaker 1: in thinking that way, the more you do in your

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Speaker 1: career and the more success you get, you can pick

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Speaker 1: and choose. But I've been confronted with a power thing

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Speaker 1: from directors before and that's what makes Antonia refreshing because

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Speaker 1: she doesn't have that. It's a collaborative thing. It's about trust,

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Speaker 1: and you build up trust over a period of years,

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Speaker 1: and therefore you will do anything for each other.

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Speaker 3: Oh okay, yeah, So if I'm interpreting that right, that

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Speaker 3: does match the feeling I get from watching the movie

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Speaker 3: where it is. You get the sense that this is

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Speaker 3: the kind of production where people were just trying things.

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Speaker 3: People might do something weird, and then it's like, oh,

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Speaker 3: that kind of works, let's go with that, yeah, instead

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Speaker 3: of a director just draconian ly to you know, bossing

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Speaker 3: everybody around and saying, no, I've got a vision, do

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Speaker 3: it this way.

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Speaker 1: And of course all that makes sense when we get

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Speaker 1: into the cast here in just a minute, because it's

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Speaker 1: a great cast of character actors and experienced the stage

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Speaker 1: and screen actors, and so you can really feel it

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Speaker 1: all come together.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, all right.

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Speaker 1: The screenplay is by Ted Griffin born nineteen seventy. This

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Speaker 1: was his first produced feature film script, but he followed

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Speaker 1: it up with two thousand and one's adaptation of Ocean's Eleven,

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Speaker 1: based on a previous film from many years back. He

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Speaker 1: also did two thousand and threes matchtick Men, the twenty

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Speaker 1: ten series Terriers, twenty eleven's Tower Heist, and twenty ten Solace.

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Speaker 1: He also got into producing and co produced twenty thirteen's

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Speaker 1: The Wolf of Wall Street. All Right, heading up our

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Speaker 1: cast top build is Guy Pierce playing the character BOYD.

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Speaker 1: Born nineteen sixty seven. And I think everybody knows who

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Speaker 1: Guy Pierce is, big name Australian actor who really broke

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Speaker 1: into the mainstream with his supporting role in nineteen ninety

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Speaker 1: seven's La Confidential.

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Speaker 3: I would argue Guy Pearce is really playing against type

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Speaker 3: in this movie. He again and again throughout his career

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Speaker 3: he plays characters that are very driven, the kind of focused,

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Speaker 3: competent people who are always the active party in the scene,

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Speaker 3: always the agent, And here he plays the exact opposite,

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Speaker 3: a character whose main vice is cowardice and indecision.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's a great read because whether he's

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Speaker 1: playing heroes or villains, which and he does both terrifically,

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Speaker 1: it is generally a very driven character. And in this

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Speaker 1: film the character is intentionally presented is very passive for

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Speaker 1: much of the film, resigned to whatever fate has seemingly

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Speaker 1: for whatever fate has seemingly chosen for him, and you

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Speaker 1: know as such, he doesn't even seem to have much

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Speaker 1: agency at first, and on the whole speaks very little

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Speaker 1: in the movie.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a weird choice to have a protagonist this way.

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Speaker 3: He's like, there are multiple scenes where he is an

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Speaker 3: officer in the military in this film, but he has

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Speaker 3: like men underneath him who are having to kind of

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Speaker 3: like give him orders essentially because he's just frozen and

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Speaker 3: he doesn't know what to do. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So, prior to Like Confidential, his Australian credits included the

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Speaker 1: cult favorite drag film The Adventures of Priscilla, Queen of

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Speaker 1: the Desert, alongside Hugo Weaving and Terrence Stamp. So this

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Speaker 1: film pretty much follows up on the La Confidential boom

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Speaker 1: and proceeds a string of early two thousand films Christopher

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Speaker 1: Nolan's Memento in two thousand, of Course, two thousand twos,

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Speaker 1: The counta Monte Crisco, two thousand and two's The Time Machine.

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Speaker 1: Subsequent credits included such films as two thousand and five's

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Speaker 1: The Proposition, two thousand and eight's The hurt Locker two

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Speaker 1: thousand and nine is The Road twenty twelve's Prometheus, twenty

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Speaker 1: thirteen's Iron Man three, in which he gets to play

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Speaker 1: the chief villain, twenty sixteen Brimstone. I believe that's another

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Speaker 1: grim sort of Western frontier picture. Twenty seventeen's Alien Covenant,

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Speaker 1: small but memorable roll. There a turn as Scrooge in

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Speaker 1: twenty nineteen's A Christmas Carol. I haven't seen that, but

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Speaker 1: I'm imagining it as Peter Wayland as Scrooge, so I

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Speaker 1: hope that wouldn't disappoint.

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Speaker 3: Dan Ackroyd did nothing but trouble as Scrooge.

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Speaker 1: And then oh, he's in twenty twenty fours The Shrouds.

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Speaker 1: That's I believe the latest Cronenberg film. Haven't seen that one,

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Speaker 1: And he's also in The Brutalist, for which he was

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Speaker 1: nominated for a Best Supporting Actor Oscar.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I always like Guy Pearson. He is great in this,

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Speaker 3: but once again a very different kind of role for him.

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Speaker 1: All right, now, coming back to Robert Carlyle. Robert Carlyle

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Speaker 1: plays we're past spoilers at this point, so we can

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Speaker 1: go in and say that it's kind of a double role.

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Speaker 1: He plays a character that it's initially identified as with

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Speaker 1: the name Calhoun, but we come to know as ives.

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Speaker 3: There are a lot of great things about this movie,

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Speaker 3: but I would say Robert Carlyle is the hub around

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Speaker 3: which the spokes revolve here. He is the core of

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Speaker 3: this movie, and he's like the best thing in it.

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Speaker 3: He is driving this train and he's driving it right

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Speaker 3: off the tracks and it's great. He is fantastic.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he really gets to shine here. He gets to

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Speaker 1: go in various directions. It's in many ways a Dracula

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Speaker 1: role in all the great ways that it's a Dracula role,

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Speaker 1: but with all these other layers in place, Like he

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Speaker 1: gets to play a frontier mad man, he gets to

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Speaker 1: play a cold, pragmatist villain. He gets to be this

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Speaker 1: kind of embodiment of predatory capitalism and empire. And there

433
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:20,359
Speaker 1: are also subtle homoerotic layers to the character as well.

434
00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:22,960
Speaker 1: I don't think those are as pronounced, or at least

435
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:26,640
Speaker 1: they didn't jump out at me as much, But based

436
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:30,439
Speaker 1: on interviews I've seen with Carlisle, he does stress that

437
00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:32,560
Speaker 1: that it was part of the calculus of the character.

438
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:36,680
Speaker 1: So Carlile is of course a noted Scottish actor whose

439
00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:40,080
Speaker 1: credits go back to the late eighties, starring in TV

440
00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:43,640
Speaker 1: with some small roles before starring in nineteen ninety one's

441
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:46,520
Speaker 1: Riff Raff, which earned him earned him a BAF denomination.

442
00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:49,199
Speaker 1: And it wasn't long after this that he worked with

443
00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:52,280
Speaker 1: Byrd Unsafe and then worked with her again on Priest

444
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:55,119
Speaker 1: the same year, nineteen ninety four, he also appeared in

445
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:57,840
Speaker 1: a supporting role in the Robin Williams film Being Human.

446
00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:00,600
Speaker 1: In nineteen ninety six, he appeared in Dan he Boils

447
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:03,840
Speaker 1: Train Spotting, playing the sadistic Oh, it's been a while

448
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:06,080
Speaker 1: since I've seen this. I think the character's name is Bigbie.

449
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:10,399
Speaker 1: It's been forever. Yeah, Franco Begbee, I think. And this

450
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:13,640
Speaker 1: is a role he'd reprise in twenty seventeen's T two

451
00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:17,240
Speaker 1: Trained Spotting. He followed this up with ninety seven's Face

452
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:19,520
Speaker 1: and The Full Monty, and this was another role he'd

453
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:23,240
Speaker 1: later reprise in twenty thirteen The Full Monty TV Project.

454
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:27,000
Speaker 1: He was a ninety nine's Plunkett McClean ninety nine's The

455
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:29,280
Speaker 1: World Is Not Enough. I forgot about this one. But

456
00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:30,160
Speaker 1: he's a Bond villain.

457
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:33,240
Speaker 3: Oh, he's the villain of it. I've seen this movie,

458
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:34,600
Speaker 3: but I don't really remember he.

459
00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:37,040
Speaker 1: Is either this is Yeah, I'm not a big fan

460
00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:40,159
Speaker 1: of this era of Bond pictures, but he either plays

461
00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:42,920
Speaker 1: the main villain or the chief henchman.

462
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:48,200
Speaker 3: Okay, the world is not. Oh is this the one with? Yes? Sorry,

463
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:51,120
Speaker 3: just had to look it up. She's doctor Christmas Jones.

464
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:57,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm I think I saw this, but I maybe

465
00:24:57,320 --> 00:24:59,760
Speaker 1: I didn't because I don't really remember any of this.

466
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:03,000
Speaker 3: I notice it's a forgettable one. It's got a showdown

467
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:05,400
Speaker 3: in a nuclear submarine I think in the end, and

468
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:09,640
Speaker 3: Robert Carlyle is he's a villain called Renard. I had

469
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:11,600
Speaker 3: to look this up to jog my memory. I truly

470
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:13,320
Speaker 3: did not remember any of these details.

471
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:18,080
Speaker 1: Goldie is in it, the UK DJ musician. But yeah,

472
00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:20,640
Speaker 1: maybe I haven't seen this one at all. Well, it's

473
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:24,879
Speaker 1: not Robert Carlyle's fault. That's like good no, but you know,

474
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:27,680
Speaker 1: more power to him forgetting that Bond villain pay day.

475
00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:31,160
Speaker 1: Let's see that same year, though, he was in Angela's Ashes,

476
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:33,080
Speaker 1: and then in two thousand he was in the Beach.

477
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 1: He played Adolf Hitler in the two thousand and three

478
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:39,080
Speaker 1: mini series Hitler The Rise of Evil. Other credits include

479
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:42,040
Speaker 1: two thousand and seven's Aragon and also twenty eight weeks

480
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:44,639
Speaker 1: later from the same year. And he also played the

481
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:49,320
Speaker 1: role of sort of an updated version of Rumpel Stilskin

482
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:52,080
Speaker 1: on TVs Once Upon a Time, which ran from twenty

483
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 1: eleven to twenty eighteen. All right, third billing for this

484
00:25:56,840 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 1: picture is David Arquette playing the character Cleaves.

485
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:01,680
Speaker 3: Billing that's a strange choice.

486
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:04,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think I guess they were capitalizing on

487
00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 1: his sort of like MTV era Scream franchise celebrity status

488
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:11,800
Speaker 1: at the time. But this is a very minimal role,

489
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:14,679
Speaker 1: kind of a mild comic relief stoner character.

490
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:17,199
Speaker 3: I mean, he's good in his scenes, no offense to

491
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:22,080
Speaker 3: David Arquette at all, but he's more unhinged than I

492
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:25,359
Speaker 3: would have expected David Arquette to get, like his hysterical

493
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:29,359
Speaker 3: laughter at absolutely nothing and h and also like while

494
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:30,280
Speaker 3: he's getting gutted.

495
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I guess they, you know, they when they

496
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:36,840
Speaker 1: were marketing it, they're like, you liked Scream, right, well,

497
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:40,359
Speaker 1: enjoy Ravenous because ye at this point, Scream one and

498
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:43,240
Speaker 1: two had already come out the same year he starred

499
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 1: and Never Been Kissed. Subsequent films include two thousand and

500
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:49,439
Speaker 1: two's Eight Legged Freaks, two thousand and fours Never Die Alone,

501
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:52,720
Speaker 1: and also twenty fifteen's Bone Tomahawk, which you know is

502
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:57,840
Speaker 1: another weird Western frontier movie.

503
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:01,679
Speaker 3: Oh. I remember having mixed feelings about that one, because

504
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:04,679
Speaker 3: I thought like, in some ways it was well made,

505
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:07,840
Speaker 3: but also it just made me feel so nasty.

506
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's kind of a kind of a nasty one.

507
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:14,879
Speaker 1: I'm I'm like, again, only twenty fifteen, and I'm not

508
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 1: sure it has aged well, but and I haven't gone

509
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:20,120
Speaker 1: back and rewatched it, but I enjoyed the experience when

510
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:21,840
Speaker 1: it came out. You know, Kurt Russell was great and

511
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,760
Speaker 1: everything and solid supporting cast in that one as well.

512
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, who is it? Oh Man who plays Richard Jenkins.

513
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:29,920
Speaker 1: Richard Jenkins is outstanding in that.

514
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:31,760
Speaker 3: He's great in it. Yeah, but I remember that one

515
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:35,560
Speaker 3: just being particularly just mean and vile.

516
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:38,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, let's get into the more of the

517
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:41,960
Speaker 1: supporting cast. Here. We have Jeremy Davis playing Toffler. Born

518
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:44,879
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty nine, American actor who the same year was

519
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:47,800
Speaker 1: part of the cast of Saving Private Ryan. He'd already

520
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 1: appeared in ninety six's Twister Subsequent films included two thousand

521
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:54,320
Speaker 1: and two Secretary as well as Solaris, and he played

522
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:57,639
Speaker 1: Charles Manson in two thousand and four's Helter Skelter that

523
00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:00,400
Speaker 1: was a TV film, and he also had roles on

524
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:02,680
Speaker 1: TV's Lost and Justified.

525
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 3: It's weird to imagine him playing Charles Manson because he

526
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:09,439
Speaker 3: usually played it once again against type there he usually

527
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 3: plays these kind of quiet, frightened, timid mouse like characters.

528
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:20,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, he's a he's like a sweet but weird

529
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:25,200
Speaker 1: dude in this very religious if we haven't mentioned it already,

530
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:27,639
Speaker 1: one of the whole things here is that all of

531
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:29,679
Speaker 1: the people that have been kind of exiled to this

532
00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 1: remote outpost in Ravenous they are all outcast of one

533
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:35,879
Speaker 1: sort of or another. They have been put here to

534
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:40,520
Speaker 1: be forgotten. This is the ubliette of the American Frontier. Yeah,

535
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 1: all right, and then we have we have a major

536
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:46,640
Speaker 1: supporting character by the name of Heart, played by Jeffrey

537
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:50,000
Speaker 1: Jones born nineteen forty six, and is kind of This

538
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 1: one is kind of a tough one to write about

539
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:53,680
Speaker 1: and to bring up here because Jones was one of

540
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 1: I think the most beloved weirdo character actors of the

541
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 1: eighties and nineties, noted for roles in such films as

542
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:02,200
Speaker 1: eighty four's On It of Course, nineteen eighty six is

543
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:04,960
Speaker 1: Ferris Bueller's Day Off, in which he is the principal.

544
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 1: He also has a fun villain role in Howard the

545
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 1: Duck the same year, He's in eighty eight Beetlejuice, ninety

546
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:14,680
Speaker 1: two Stay Tuned, and nineteen ninety four's ed Wood, in

547
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 1: which he played the amazing Chris Well.

548
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 3: That's right.

549
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 1: On TV. He had a regular cast role on HBO's Deadwood,

550
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:23,160
Speaker 1: but of course legal problems in two thousand and two

551
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:26,360
Speaker 1: with some really rough charges that I don't even want

552
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 1: to get into here on the podcast, but the info

553
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:31,920
Speaker 1: is readily available on Wikipedia and everywhere else. This essentially

554
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:34,960
Speaker 1: ended his career. At any rate. His on screen work

555
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:38,000
Speaker 1: was always terrific, and he's great in this His Heart

556
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:38,760
Speaker 1: is it Colonel Heart.

557
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:39,040
Speaker 3: I can't.

558
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 1: I don't necessarily remember everybody's military rank, but Heart is

559
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 1: a very likable character and it has a very nice,

560
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 1: it perhaps a bit rushed character arc.

561
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:52,479
Speaker 3: Which sets up a late movie twist that is I

562
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:54,880
Speaker 3: remember back in the day, was like a real gut punch.

563
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:58,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and yeah, it hit the same way, even

564
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 1: though it was knowing it was coming. All right. We

565
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 1: also have General Slawson. Great choice of a name because

566
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 1: it sounds like it goes with barbecue, played by John Spencer,

567
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:09,960
Speaker 1: who lived nineteen forty six through two thousand and five.

568
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 1: Noted American actor best remembered for his role as Leo

569
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:16,480
Speaker 1: McGarry on TV's The West Wing. Other credits include eighty

570
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:19,640
Speaker 1: three's War Games, eighty nine's Black Rain, nineties Presumed Innocent,

571
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:22,960
Speaker 1: ninety six is the Rock in ninety seven's Copland. This

572
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 1: was his last theatrical appearance.

573
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 3: I was thinking of this character as General Cole Slawson.

574
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:34,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, they do those nicknames. Yeah, he's really good at this.

575
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:37,960
Speaker 1: You your gruff authority figure. Everything that you would ask

576
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:40,880
Speaker 1: about that character, he does a good job, all right.

577
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:43,720
Speaker 1: We also we have a return of a character actor

578
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 1: that we previously talked about on the show. Steven Spinella

579
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:51,960
Speaker 1: plays Knox born nineteen fifty six, American actor of stage, screen,

580
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:54,720
Speaker 1: and TV. We previously talked about him because he was

581
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:58,120
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety five's Virtuosity. He played the creepy doctor

582
00:30:58,240 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 1: Lynden Meyer.

583
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:02,240
Speaker 3: Is this the guy who In Up, he creates Sid

584
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:06,960
Speaker 3: six point seven, Yes, the Russell Crow virtual reality murderer,

585
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 3: but then like starts worshiping him.

586
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:14,520
Speaker 1: Yes, okay, yes, yeah, so yeah, great creepy performance in Virtuosity.

587
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 1: Totally different vibe here as he plays brash, terminally alcoholic

588
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:23,120
Speaker 1: major knocks. His other main film credits include two thousand

589
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:26,560
Speaker 1: and eights Milk, twenty tens Rubber, and twenty twelve's Lincoln.

590
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 1: Solid performance here. All right, then we also have Reich.

591
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:35,120
Speaker 1: This is the character played by Neil McDonough born nineteen

592
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:38,720
Speaker 1: fifty six. Stealey, American tough guy actor whose first role

593
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 1: was a dock worker in nineteen nineties Dark Man. He

594
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:44,640
Speaker 1: also popped up in ninety six's Star Trek First Contact.

595
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:46,960
Speaker 1: Really busted out with a role in two thousand and

596
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,200
Speaker 1: one's Band of Brothers, followed by a key role in

597
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:52,000
Speaker 1: two thousand and two's Minority Report, and he got to

598
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:54,800
Speaker 1: play m Bison in the two thousand and nine Street

599
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 1: Fighter movie.

600
00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:58,520
Speaker 3: Oh okay, that's the later movie, because yeah, for me,

601
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:01,440
Speaker 3: m Bison will always be Roald Julia. Oh.

602
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:05,000
Speaker 1: Absolutely, Once Raal Julia has played a role, it's his forever.

603
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:08,800
Speaker 1: So mcdod is good here it's kind of one note role,

604
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 1: but it's a good note.

605
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, all right.

606
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:14,200
Speaker 1: And then we have a couple of Native American actors

607
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:18,160
Speaker 1: to round everything out. First, we have Joseph Running Fox

608
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:22,480
Speaker 1: playing the character of George born nineteen fifty five, Native

609
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 1: American actor of the Pueblo Nation whose credits go back

610
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 1: to nineteen seventy eight. He played the lead in the

611
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety three Geronimo TV movie and since Ravenus has

612
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 1: continued to work steadily, appearing in two thousand and two Skinwalkers,

613
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 1: the Navajo Mysteries, TV's Sons of Anarchy, and also TV's

614
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:39,800
Speaker 1: Dark Wins.

615
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:43,160
Speaker 3: The character George is the scout who works at the

616
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:46,240
Speaker 3: four Tier, and he is also the character who delivers

617
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:48,360
Speaker 3: the movie's core lower dump.

618
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:51,480
Speaker 1: Yes, so a minimal role, but an important one, and

619
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 1: he's good. And then we also have Sheliah Talzi playing

620
00:32:56,600 --> 00:33:02,760
Speaker 1: Martha born nineteen sixty She's a Monomine and Stockbridge, Munsey

621
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 1: Native American actress whose credits include nineteen ninety two's Thunderheart,

622
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:09,960
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety five's Lord of Illusions, the Clive Barker film.

623
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 1: I don't remember her from that, but that's one i've

624
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 1: been tempted to revisit. In recent years. She pops up

625
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:18,040
Speaker 1: on TV's The X Files. She was in two thousand

626
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:20,680
Speaker 1: and two skin Walkers and two thousand and fives Into

627
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:23,280
Speaker 1: the West. She was active from about ninety two through

628
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:24,200
Speaker 1: two thousand and five.

629
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 3: Her character's presence is limited, but she does play a

630
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:30,720
Speaker 3: kind of central role in giving one of the core

631
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:34,920
Speaker 3: like moral exhortations in the movie. Especially. It's interesting watching

632
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:38,880
Speaker 3: the movie multiple times because you might not fully understand

633
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 3: what she's saying to Guy Pearce's character the first time

634
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:44,200
Speaker 3: you see it, and then it kind of makes more

635
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:46,120
Speaker 3: sense when you know the whole arc of the story.

636
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:47,120
Speaker 1: Yeah.

637
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 3: Yeah.

638
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 1: Martha and George have important roles in being the characters

639
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:56,480
Speaker 1: who have some degree of understanding of what's actually happening.

640
00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,960
Speaker 1: They provide a certain wisdom that has thus far been

641
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:04,360
Speaker 1: elusive for the Western characters in the picture. All right,

642
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:08,360
Speaker 1: briefly getting behind the camera here. Anthony B. Richmond was

643
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:12,120
Speaker 1: a cinematographer on this Born nineteen forty two. His work

644
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:14,560
Speaker 1: goes back to the nineteen sixties and includes such films

645
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:17,799
Speaker 1: as seventy three's Don't Look Now and nineteen seventy six

646
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:20,400
Speaker 1: is The Man Who Fell to Earth. Wow. Yeah, he

647
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:22,840
Speaker 1: also worked on ninety two s Candy Man and ninety

648
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:25,800
Speaker 1: five's Tales from the Hood and apparently is still working today.

649
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:29,440
Speaker 3: That's a good resume for a bunch of great looking films.

650
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, Nicholas Rogue connection there. And you know, I'm not

651
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:34,120
Speaker 1: going to get into the producers, but I think there

652
00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:39,280
Speaker 1: is a producer executive producer perhaps connection to some Nicholas

653
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 1: Rogue pictures as well. Okay, but now look, we should

654
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:44,440
Speaker 1: talk to just a little bit about the score. In

655
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:47,759
Speaker 1: my opinion, Ravenous boasts one of the most original, un

656
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 1: effective scores that I can think of, certainly from this

657
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 1: time period, painting a rich sonic tapestry that includes discordant

658
00:34:55,640 --> 00:35:00,799
Speaker 1: renditions of patriotic anthems and American frontier banjo, some of

659
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:04,000
Speaker 1: which I've read was performed by non musicians that were

660
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 1: gathered together for the project. You have tape loops, you

661
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:11,960
Speaker 1: have brooding primal beats, electronic distortion, in addition to some

662
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:13,799
Speaker 1: more traditional movie score flourishes.

663
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:17,959
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. The score is extremely varied. It's all

664
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:22,520
Speaker 3: over the place and all different kinds of genres and textures,

665
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:26,000
Speaker 3: and it comes together quite well. This is I would

666
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:28,200
Speaker 3: agree with you. The score is one of the strongest

667
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:31,880
Speaker 3: elements of the movie, which is overall very strong, and

668
00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:35,240
Speaker 3: it really stands out to me. I think the music

669
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:39,439
Speaker 3: is fantastic, especially because there are so many moments where

670
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:43,000
Speaker 3: the music it seems like it doesn't quite fit in

671
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 3: one way or another, like it doesn't fit the time period,

672
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:48,239
Speaker 3: or it doesn't fit the mood of the scene. But

673
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:51,279
Speaker 3: then it kind of does, like it just continues and

674
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:55,320
Speaker 3: then it resolves and reaches this state where it does

675
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:59,160
Speaker 3: feel right in a way that it kind of rewards

676
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:03,960
Speaker 3: your earlier trust in this tension created between sound and picture,

677
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:07,360
Speaker 3: and I don't know, it's it's a very interesting feeling

678
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:09,879
Speaker 3: that it creates in the film. And this is one

679
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:11,840
Speaker 3: that I would like to have music from this movie

680
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:12,640
Speaker 3: just on a record.

681
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:16,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's this. It was released on CD, and I

682
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:18,799
Speaker 1: know that I either had the CD or some MP

683
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:20,799
Speaker 1: three's ripped from the CD back in the day, But

684
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:23,319
Speaker 1: as of this recording, I don't think it's available to

685
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:26,319
Speaker 1: stream anywhere aside from YouTube, as you know, probably a

686
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:30,319
Speaker 1: user upload a situation, and as far as I can tell,

687
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:32,400
Speaker 1: has never been released on vinyl. It seems like this

688
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:35,400
Speaker 1: would be a no brainer for a really cool like

689
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 1: blood red vinyl release, but you know, I don't know

690
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 1: how the rights for those sorts of things work. Apparently

691
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:43,320
Speaker 1: the music here was a so the music here is

692
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 1: a joint composition of two different musicians, though it's sometimes

693
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:48,719
Speaker 1: a tangled web to try to figure out which one

694
00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:51,760
Speaker 1: did what. Apparently it was ultimately like a sixty forty split,

695
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:55,400
Speaker 1: and the credit order depends on whether you're looking at

696
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 1: the film or the published album. But the two gentlemen

697
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:04,240
Speaker 1: involved here are Damon Alburn and Michael Nyman. Damon Alburn

698
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:06,920
Speaker 1: born nineteen sixty eight is, of course the illustrious English

699
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:09,600
Speaker 1: musician best known for his work with the British band Blur,

700
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:13,080
Speaker 1: who had a string of hits that I mostly know

701
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:17,440
Speaker 1: from their inclusion in various DJ mixes from the nineties.

702
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:19,719
Speaker 1: But then he would go on to be the key

703
00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:24,239
Speaker 1: creative force and lead vocalist on the Gorillas Project. I

704
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:27,640
Speaker 1: believe his only other film score or soundtrack work is

705
00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:30,840
Speaker 1: a two thousand and one film called one Oh one Reykivic.

706
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 1: That's another collaboration, so really not much that's directly film

707
00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:38,319
Speaker 1: oriented outside of that. In ravenous, but he's worked in

708
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 1: all manner of musical projects, including things like operas, throughout

709
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:46,040
Speaker 1: the course of his career. If nothing else, you're familiar

710
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:48,400
Speaker 1: with Gorillas, and yeah, his work is fabulous.

711
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:51,479
Speaker 3: There are actually moments in the movie where I don't

712
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:55,120
Speaker 3: know if he's using exactly the same electronic instruments or voicings,

713
00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:57,840
Speaker 3: but there are moments where I hear bits of the

714
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:03,440
Speaker 3: first Gorillas album, Like there's a kind of electronic piano

715
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:07,040
Speaker 3: tone used in a loop throughout the hit, their hit

716
00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:09,920
Speaker 3: Clint Eastwood that I hear that same tone in the

717
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 3: soundtrack here. And there's just stuff like that that feels

718
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:16,840
Speaker 3: very familiar to Gorillas fans.

719
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:19,920
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that would make sense now. As for Michael

720
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:24,839
Speaker 1: Nyman born nineteen forty four, English composer, pianist, filmmaker as

721
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:27,279
Speaker 1: well in his own right, His best received scores in

722
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:29,560
Speaker 1: addition to this one include his work on nineteen eighty

723
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:31,439
Speaker 1: nine's The Cook, The Thief, His Wife and Her Lover,

724
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:35,280
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety eight's Gatica, two thousand's The End of the Affair,

725
00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:38,960
Speaker 1: in twenty fourteen's The Piano. His other scores include nineteen

726
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:42,680
Speaker 1: ninety one's Prospero's books ninety four's mesmer In nineteen ninety

727
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:43,560
Speaker 1: six is the ogre?

728
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:53,800
Speaker 3: All right? Is it time to talk about the plot?

729
00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:55,200
Speaker 1: Yes, let's do so.

730
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:58,600
Speaker 3: Okay. We get a couple of epigraphs right at the start.

731
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:03,640
Speaker 3: One is a quote attributed to Friedrich Nietzsche that says

732
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:05,840
Speaker 3: he that fights with monsters should look to it that

733
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 3: he himself does not become a monster. The relationship of

734
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:10,960
Speaker 3: that to the plot will become a parent as we

735
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:13,120
Speaker 3: talk more. And then you get a second quote that

736
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:16,759
Speaker 3: comes in which is attributed to anonymous, and it is

737
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:19,880
Speaker 3: eat me this.

738
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:26,200
Speaker 1: I like this, but this also maybe feels like a

739
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:30,120
Speaker 1: late studio attempt to sort of try and control how

740
00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 1: people are going to consume this picture. But I don't

741
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:35,880
Speaker 1: know exactly whose choice this was. I don't know it

742
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:36,400
Speaker 1: still works.

743
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:38,640
Speaker 3: Is this the chef coming out and telling you how

744
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:39,480
Speaker 3: to eat your food?

745
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:44,000
Speaker 1: Yeah? But overall I love this because we're instantly hit

746
00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:52,160
Speaker 1: with that squeaky, perhaps non musician Frontier band rendition of

747
00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:58,000
Speaker 1: the American patriotic song Hail Columbia, which sounds fabulous here,

748
00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:00,560
Speaker 1: but when you look up the lyrics, it's it's pretty

749
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 1: It fits pretty well. To what we're about to see.

750
00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:08,320
Speaker 1: Hail Columbia, Happy Land, Hail Ye Heroes, heaven born band

751
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:11,560
Speaker 1: who fought and bled in Freedom's cause, Who fought and

752
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:12,960
Speaker 1: bled in Freedom's cause.

753
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:16,560
Speaker 3: Yeah. So we start with, of course, that kind of music.

754
00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:20,360
Speaker 3: It's patriotic military marching band kind of music. And we

755
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:23,960
Speaker 3: see a waving American flag and that with fewer stars

756
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:26,080
Speaker 3: though than the flag you're used to because this is

757
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:29,040
Speaker 3: the eighteen forties. And then we see a banquet hall

758
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:33,360
Speaker 3: with a long table, bunch of place settings, patriotic regalia,

759
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:36,920
Speaker 3: and it's lined by officers in full uniform, so this

760
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:39,960
Speaker 3: is some kind of ceremony. And we hear a voice

761
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:43,759
Speaker 3: saying for heroism beyond the call of duty, for successfully

762
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:48,360
Speaker 3: infiltrating the enemy's ranks and securing victory independently with cunning

763
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:52,080
Speaker 3: and honor. We see Guy Pierce here in uniform as

764
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:55,880
Speaker 3: Captain John Boyd, and he is ready to receive a

765
00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:59,240
Speaker 3: medal for his meritorious service. We also get a glimpse

766
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:02,239
Speaker 3: of John Spence is the general presiding over this ceremony.

767
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:05,200
Speaker 3: This is General Slawson, and then we cut back to

768
00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:08,240
Speaker 3: Boyd looking kind of uneasy as we get a sudden

769
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:11,400
Speaker 3: flashback to the midst of battle, so we see him

770
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:14,440
Speaker 3: in a very different place. There's gunshots ringing out on

771
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:17,600
Speaker 3: this hillside, smoke everywhere. This is supposed to be the

772
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:20,919
Speaker 3: Mexican American War, so it's a Mexican kind of landscape.

773
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:23,840
Speaker 3: And then Guy Pearce is kind of falling to his

774
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:27,799
Speaker 3: knees in the middle of the battlefield, as if his

775
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:30,560
Speaker 3: strength has left him, And of course we get a

776
00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:33,160
Speaker 3: title telling us it's the Mexican American War. The year

777
00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:36,759
Speaker 3: is eighteen forty seven. A chaplain says a blessing, and

778
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:39,239
Speaker 3: then all of the officers here at this banquet sit

779
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:41,640
Speaker 3: down at their places at the long table, and they

780
00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:45,399
Speaker 3: dig in and the meal appears to be steak and

781
00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:51,400
Speaker 3: nothing else, not even a little salad, baked potato, some cream, spinach. Nothing.

782
00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:54,879
Speaker 3: But of course then I remember that this film takes

783
00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:56,880
Speaker 3: place before vegetables were invented.

784
00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:00,360
Speaker 1: I was reminded of that in this of of the

785
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:02,680
Speaker 1: later film two thousand and sevens There Will Be Blood,

786
00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:06,560
Speaker 1: in which Daniel day Lewis's character Daniel Plainview. At one

787
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:08,640
Speaker 1: point he is in a restaurant with his son and

788
00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:13,000
Speaker 1: he orders quote two steaks, a whiskey and water for him,

789
00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:16,360
Speaker 1: and we never get to actually see that meal, but

790
00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:19,680
Speaker 1: I always I had a false memory that I had

791
00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:22,560
Speaker 1: seen it because I just imagine it coming out just

792
00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:26,600
Speaker 1: like that, just two steaks, no vegetables, one glass of whiskey,

793
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:29,320
Speaker 1: one glass of water. Though I believe there is a

794
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:31,960
Speaker 1: later key scene in which plaine View is enjoying a

795
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:33,120
Speaker 1: plate of just steak.

796
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:36,319
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know steak. How steakhouses worked back then,

797
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:38,879
Speaker 3: maybe that was a more normal kind of meal to eat,

798
00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:41,120
Speaker 3: but I know I have to imagine even back then,

799
00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 3: people would probably want some more variety. You want some starch,

800
00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:48,680
Speaker 3: some sides, some vegetables, something in there, like just a

801
00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:49,520
Speaker 3: plate of steak.

802
00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:53,200
Speaker 1: The last time I went to a like certified steak

803
00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:56,840
Speaker 1: restaurant before I gave up steak, I do remember it

804
00:42:56,880 --> 00:42:59,359
Speaker 1: being a situation where you order the steak and then

805
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:02,080
Speaker 1: you have to pay extra for anything else, any sides,

806
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:04,480
Speaker 1: which kind of I mean, I guess the idea is

807
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:06,120
Speaker 1: that that's just how it's priced out and all. Maybe

808
00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:08,960
Speaker 1: that's tradition, but it also kind of felt like like, oh,

809
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:11,080
Speaker 1: if you want to get anything in addition to the meat,

810
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:13,800
Speaker 1: you better pay for it, you're paying extra for that, buddy,

811
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:14,960
Speaker 1: the steak stands alone.

812
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:18,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that that sort of makes sense, like

813
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:20,719
Speaker 3: because you can choose, like you get to pick your

814
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:22,840
Speaker 3: sides all the carts, so you pick your favorite. So

815
00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:25,080
Speaker 3: it's not just like you know, oh, this is what

816
00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:29,279
Speaker 3: comes with it. But yeah, I see what you're saying there.

817
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:32,640
Speaker 3: You know, the cream spinach is the classic steakhouse side.

818
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:34,719
Speaker 3: I feel like, at least in the I don't know

819
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:37,160
Speaker 3: how far back that tradition goes, but I would think

820
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:38,880
Speaker 3: even in the eighteen forties you got to give them

821
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:40,240
Speaker 3: some cream spinach or something.

822
00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:43,120
Speaker 1: In this case, they were not able to requisition some

823
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:44,680
Speaker 1: cream spinach for the troops.

824
00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:48,960
Speaker 3: So everybody noisily digs into their steak and nothing else,

825
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:53,200
Speaker 3: and you can really just hear them making sounds. Like

826
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:58,040
Speaker 3: the movie plays up the disgustingness of the eating noises,

827
00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:04,719
Speaker 3: and it's like, and as this happens, Boyd is sitting there,

828
00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:07,360
Speaker 3: the only person not eating. All his peers are shoveling

829
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:09,160
Speaker 3: the meat into their mouths, and you can see him

830
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:12,600
Speaker 3: feeling anxiety, like his breathing is shallow and he's looking

831
00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:16,399
Speaker 3: around nervously. And then they also show Boyd's plate, which

832
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:20,400
Speaker 3: looks disgusting. It's got this gross looking gray cut of

833
00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:24,720
Speaker 3: I think this is beef shank, which also is confusing

834
00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:27,640
Speaker 3: because that is not typically prepared as a steak. That's

835
00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:29,960
Speaker 3: going to be tough as rubber. If you need shank,

836
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:31,960
Speaker 3: you have to cook it a long time, like in

837
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:35,920
Speaker 3: a stew or something. So it's just like a steak

838
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:38,560
Speaker 3: of beef shank sitting in a puddle of juice that

839
00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:42,040
Speaker 3: has clearly been modified to look less like regular steak

840
00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:44,680
Speaker 3: juices and more like fresh red blood. It looks like

841
00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:49,480
Speaker 3: thick and bright red. Here Boyd has another flashback to battle,

842
00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:52,160
Speaker 3: this time too, lying pinned down on the ground in

843
00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:55,800
Speaker 3: a pile of dead bodies, covered in blood, gasping for breath,

844
00:44:56,200 --> 00:45:00,560
Speaker 3: and eventually the association overwhelms him. He bolts up, gets

845
00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:03,520
Speaker 3: up from the banquet table, runs outside, and vomits, and

846
00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:05,680
Speaker 3: then we get the title Ravenous.

847
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:09,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think this is where that unsettling banjo

848
00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:13,560
Speaker 1: music begins to kick in a ditty that will continue

849
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:16,400
Speaker 1: to hear over and over again throughout the picture. So really,

850
00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:19,560
Speaker 1: at every key moment in the film, the music is

851
00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:23,280
Speaker 1: right there, amping everything up, and at times like subtly

852
00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:24,680
Speaker 1: twisting your expectations.

853
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:27,760
Speaker 3: Yeah. So the next thing we see is John Spencer

854
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:31,440
Speaker 3: as the General, giving Boyd a real dressing down in private.

855
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:34,160
Speaker 3: He tells Boyd that he is not actually a hero

856
00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:36,920
Speaker 3: and he wants him as far away from his company

857
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:40,359
Speaker 3: as possible. So Boyd is sent away on a new

858
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:45,560
Speaker 3: assignment to a remote frontier fort in California called Fort Spencer,

859
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:49,439
Speaker 3: and we see Boyd in a few little scenes making

860
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:53,080
Speaker 3: his journey across a background of these huge, black, snow

861
00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:55,040
Speaker 3: covered mountains. I think these are supposed to be the

862
00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:59,280
Speaker 3: Sierra Nevadas and millions of acres of dark green forest.

863
00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:04,799
Speaker 3: This wild landscape, so Fort Spencer is sparsely occupied. It's

864
00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:08,160
Speaker 3: this outpost in a meadow in view of the mountains,

865
00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:12,200
Speaker 3: built mostly of woods, surrounded by palisade wall, and the

866
00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:15,800
Speaker 3: accommodations are pretty grungy. Boyd gets shown his quarters. He

867
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:18,600
Speaker 3: sort of like tests the give of the bedroll and

868
00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:21,600
Speaker 3: then looks at it, looks at himself in this dim

869
00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:24,960
Speaker 3: spotted mirror. In this sequence, we also briefly meet the

870
00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:28,840
Speaker 3: character Martha played by Sila Tauci, and this is a

871
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:31,560
Speaker 3: Native American woman who works at the Fort and she

872
00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:35,480
Speaker 3: brings boyds and blankets here. Eventually, Boyd has to go

873
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:38,720
Speaker 3: for a meeting with the commander of the fort, Colonel Hart,

874
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:44,240
Speaker 3: who is at least at first portrayed as kindly, mild

875
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:47,879
Speaker 3: mannered and a bit odd. We see him dressed up

876
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:51,400
Speaker 3: with a large blanket or cloak kind of covering his uniform,

877
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:53,359
Speaker 3: and he's often like this when we see him. He's

878
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:56,320
Speaker 3: got something kind of draped over him that just turns

879
00:46:56,360 --> 00:47:00,440
Speaker 3: him into a kind of mass. And he's hearing what

880
00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:03,919
Speaker 3: looks like two different pairs of eyeglasses at the same time,

881
00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:05,879
Speaker 3: one set up on the bridge of his nose and

882
00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:08,600
Speaker 3: another down near the tip. I guess for reading. I

883
00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:11,160
Speaker 3: don't understand if that was like a thing people commonly

884
00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:12,279
Speaker 3: did back then or.

885
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:15,920
Speaker 1: But I don't know. I haven't caught myself doing that

886
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:17,120
Speaker 1: with my own reading glasses.

887
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:20,600
Speaker 3: Yet it does contribute to making him seem kind of odd.

888
00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:23,319
Speaker 1: Well, no, I have to back that up. I do

889
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:27,720
Speaker 1: frequently find myself painting miniatures with a pair of reading

890
00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:33,399
Speaker 1: glasses and my magnification loops, so I have essentially done

891
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:35,359
Speaker 1: this a time or two. So maybe that's what's up.

892
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:39,600
Speaker 1: Because as we learn, like his passion is reading various texts,

893
00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:43,360
Speaker 1: reading books in their original language, So who knows, sometimes

894
00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:46,400
Speaker 1: maybe he has to really bust up the optics in

895
00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:48,200
Speaker 1: order to handle certain font sizes.

896
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:51,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, so when Boyd gets in, he's like trying to

897
00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:55,400
Speaker 3: frustratedly pry into a walnut with a knife, and this

898
00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:58,319
Speaker 3: is unsuccessful. So he's telling Boyd about what you were

899
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:00,879
Speaker 3: talking about, how he fights the boredom the outpost by

900
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:03,920
Speaker 3: reading these old texts in the original languages. And then

901
00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:06,239
Speaker 3: he goes and gets this giant leather bound book from

902
00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:09,160
Speaker 3: the shelf and uses it to smash his walnuts open.

903
00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:12,279
Speaker 3: I wonder if there's a kind of implied joke here that,

904
00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:16,120
Speaker 3: like he tells himself the way he fights the frontier

905
00:48:16,120 --> 00:48:20,360
Speaker 3: boredom is through reading these ancient tomes, but really the

906
00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:23,080
Speaker 3: way he fights the boredom is through eating. Yeah.

907
00:48:23,239 --> 00:48:28,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, possibly it's there's a strong time enough at last

908
00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:31,120
Speaker 1: vibe to this character, you know, Yeah, like he is

909
00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:34,279
Speaker 1: like everyone here, he's an outcast, but he's found the

910
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:37,279
Speaker 1: place where he can mostly just set around and read.

911
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:40,080
Speaker 3: Hart asks Boyd if he has a hobby, and Boyd

912
00:48:40,120 --> 00:48:44,239
Speaker 3: says swimming. Probably not much opportunity for swimming here in

913
00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:47,880
Speaker 3: the mountains. Heart explains a bit about the history of

914
00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:50,239
Speaker 3: the ford. It was originally a Spanish mission. Now it

915
00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:53,120
Speaker 3: serves as a way station for travelers moving through the

916
00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:56,200
Speaker 3: Sierra Nevadas, and he says, of course, there are very

917
00:48:56,200 --> 00:48:58,520
Speaker 3: few travelers in the winter, so the ford only has

918
00:48:58,560 --> 00:49:01,000
Speaker 3: minimal staff for the season, and then we get a

919
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:03,920
Speaker 3: brief introduction to each of them. There's Private Toffler, who

920
00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:07,160
Speaker 3: is very religious. This is Jeremy Davies. We see him

921
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:10,160
Speaker 3: praying before meals and like heaving wooden crosses up to

922
00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:13,120
Speaker 3: the sky. He's also in many scenes trying to compose

923
00:49:13,160 --> 00:49:15,600
Speaker 3: a hymn. You can see him working on the melody.

924
00:49:15,200 --> 00:49:18,240
Speaker 1: And the lyrics. It's not coming together.

925
00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:22,240
Speaker 3: Yeah. We see Major Knox played by Steven Spanilla, who

926
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:24,880
Speaker 3: likes to drink. That's his main character trait. He likes

927
00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:27,759
Speaker 3: the whiskey bottle. He used to be a veterinarian, so

928
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:31,360
Speaker 3: he is the forts medic. We see Private Reich played

929
00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:33,959
Speaker 3: by Neil McDonough, who is the tough guy, and there's

930
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:37,160
Speaker 3: this brief flash of him standing naked up to the

931
00:49:37,200 --> 00:49:40,319
Speaker 3: waist in a mountain stream surrounded by snow, and he's

932
00:49:40,360 --> 00:49:42,520
Speaker 3: just screaming and flexing his muscles.

933
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:48,640
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, this is some troubled masculinity here.

934
00:49:50,239 --> 00:49:53,799
Speaker 3: I am hard man. Yeah yeah. And then of course

935
00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:57,120
Speaker 3: there's George played by Joseph running Fox, who is Martha's brother.

936
00:49:57,320 --> 00:50:01,200
Speaker 3: He's a Washo scout. And then there is Private Cleaves

937
00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:04,640
Speaker 3: played by David Arquette. Hart calls him the over medicated

938
00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:08,319
Speaker 3: Private Cleaves. He likes drugs, and he's the cook. We

939
00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:10,960
Speaker 3: get a short little dinner scene with everyone assembled. The

940
00:50:11,040 --> 00:50:15,560
Speaker 3: vibes are pretty cursed, especially since Cleaves is seized with

941
00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:19,640
Speaker 3: crazy laughter at apparently nothing the whole time. And then

942
00:50:19,680 --> 00:50:23,120
Speaker 3: we get some more of Boyd's backstory. We like flashback

943
00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:26,800
Speaker 3: to what happened during the war, and we learned the truth.

944
00:50:27,400 --> 00:50:30,600
Speaker 3: The truth was Boyd was in the middle of battle

945
00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:34,120
Speaker 3: and he became so terrified that he froze, and he

946
00:50:34,280 --> 00:50:36,960
Speaker 3: just laid down on the field and pretended to be

947
00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:40,200
Speaker 3: dead while his men were slaughtered all around him. And

948
00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:42,680
Speaker 3: then after the battle was over, the enemy came and

949
00:50:42,719 --> 00:50:44,800
Speaker 3: collected the bodies from the field and put them in

950
00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:47,400
Speaker 3: a cart. Boyd was at the bottom of the cart

951
00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:50,399
Speaker 3: with the blood of his commanding officer running down his

952
00:50:50,440 --> 00:50:54,440
Speaker 3: face and into his mouth. Then he says, after this

953
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:57,319
Speaker 3: he had a change of heart. Something came over him

954
00:50:57,360 --> 00:50:58,959
Speaker 3: while he was lying at the bottom of that cart.

955
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:02,480
Speaker 3: He regained his courage, and he sprung from the pile

956
00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:05,840
Speaker 3: of bodies, and he single handedly captured the enemy command.

957
00:51:06,239 --> 00:51:09,359
Speaker 3: And this was the act that won him his commendation

958
00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:13,480
Speaker 3: for heroism. But when General Slawson found out that this

959
00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:16,440
Speaker 3: whole thing started with the dreadful act of cowardice, you know,

960
00:51:16,520 --> 00:51:19,600
Speaker 3: playing dead on the battlefield, he decided to punish Boyd

961
00:51:19,600 --> 00:51:22,680
Speaker 3: by sending him out here to California. So back in

962
00:51:22,719 --> 00:51:25,719
Speaker 3: the present, it is winter time, snow is falling, and

963
00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:28,640
Speaker 3: Heart sends Cleaves and Martha out on a journey to

964
00:51:28,680 --> 00:51:31,680
Speaker 3: the nearest trading post to get the stuff you need salt,

965
00:51:31,719 --> 00:51:34,440
Speaker 3: pork and flour and all that. And it's going to

966
00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:36,959
Speaker 3: be a three day journey. So it's only the rest

967
00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:38,839
Speaker 3: of the crew there left at the fort. And while

968
00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:42,560
Speaker 3: they're gone, we see Heart and Boyd bonding sharing some bourbon.

969
00:51:43,280 --> 00:51:46,720
Speaker 3: There's an interesting little moment where Heart talks about how

970
00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:49,759
Speaker 3: he wanted to escape the world by coming here, but

971
00:51:49,840 --> 00:51:53,440
Speaker 3: now he wants to escape this place. Quote frightening thing

972
00:51:53,480 --> 00:51:56,400
Speaker 3: about escape is the chance you might end up someplace worse.

973
00:51:57,480 --> 00:51:59,560
Speaker 3: I don't know if this is one of the major

974
00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:02,120
Speaker 3: themes movie. I have to think about it, but it

975
00:52:02,239 --> 00:52:04,480
Speaker 3: is a little interesting in the context of the story,

976
00:52:04,560 --> 00:52:08,320
Speaker 3: that the observation that we can be deceived into thinking

977
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:11,560
Speaker 3: that everything would be better if we could just change

978
00:52:11,560 --> 00:52:15,279
Speaker 3: some particular set of external circumstances, like where we are,

979
00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:17,239
Speaker 3: what our job is, or what we're doing, or something

980
00:52:17,239 --> 00:52:20,080
Speaker 3: like that, but that sometimes, you know, maybe sometimes that

981
00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:21,920
Speaker 3: is really the problem, but a lot of times it's not.

982
00:52:22,160 --> 00:52:25,720
Speaker 3: Sometimes you manage that change and discover that wasn't actually

983
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:29,400
Speaker 3: the problem, and your new circumstance is not actually the solution.

984
00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:32,920
Speaker 3: The new circumstance is something you once again desire to escape.

985
00:52:33,440 --> 00:52:38,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think that idea does weave itself rather

986
00:52:38,120 --> 00:52:40,640
Speaker 1: nicely through through many aspects of the plot.

987
00:52:41,120 --> 00:52:45,160
Speaker 3: But this moment is suddenly interrupted by a boo scare outside.

988
00:52:45,160 --> 00:52:48,760
Speaker 3: Through a frosted window, Boyd sees a figure in black

989
00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:51,840
Speaker 3: looking in at them from the cold. So the soldiers

990
00:52:51,920 --> 00:52:54,960
Speaker 3: run outside and they find a man collapsed in the snow,

991
00:52:55,080 --> 00:52:58,840
Speaker 3: apparently dying of hypothermia, and they bring him inside and

992
00:52:58,840 --> 00:53:01,200
Speaker 3: they're able to warm him up and save his life.

993
00:53:01,960 --> 00:53:05,200
Speaker 3: The next day, the man wakes up and he looks

994
00:53:05,239 --> 00:53:10,080
Speaker 3: to me surprisingly healthy. He introduces himself as F. W. Colhoun,

995
00:53:10,440 --> 00:53:14,279
Speaker 3: servant of God, and he's like, I don't know, like

996
00:53:14,320 --> 00:53:15,960
Speaker 3: you get to look at him and like he looks

997
00:53:16,120 --> 00:53:19,040
Speaker 3: like pretty well fed, Like he looks like he's doing great.

998
00:53:19,560 --> 00:53:24,160
Speaker 1: He's worth noting to hear that both Calhoun and Boyd

999
00:53:25,120 --> 00:53:27,759
Speaker 1: they both kind of look like Jesus, you know, they're

1000
00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:30,839
Speaker 1: both shaggy, long hair and either a beard or a goate.

1001
00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:34,160
Speaker 3: Yeah. So Colhoun explains that he had been stuck in

1002
00:53:34,200 --> 00:53:37,000
Speaker 3: the mountains for three months before he found the fort,

1003
00:53:37,960 --> 00:53:41,239
Speaker 3: three months without food. And Heart is incredulous at this,

1004
00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:46,480
Speaker 3: but Colhoun clarifies. He says, I said three months without food,

1005
00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:48,720
Speaker 3: not three months with nothing to eat.

1006
00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:51,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he's going to explain. But you also get

1007
00:53:51,640 --> 00:53:54,560
Speaker 1: the idea here that that's all he really needed to say,

1008
00:53:54,640 --> 00:53:57,800
Speaker 1: Like everyone knows what he means by that. Everyone's familiar

1009
00:53:57,840 --> 00:54:01,279
Speaker 1: with the idea of cannibalism.

1010
00:54:01,880 --> 00:54:04,839
Speaker 3: So here Colhoun launches into his backstory and he gives

1011
00:54:04,840 --> 00:54:07,879
Speaker 3: a whole monologue. I'm not gonna quote the entire thing here,

1012
00:54:07,880 --> 00:54:10,680
Speaker 3: but basically he tells a story of how he was

1013
00:54:10,800 --> 00:54:14,520
Speaker 3: part of a traveling party with five other people and

1014
00:54:14,719 --> 00:54:18,000
Speaker 3: a There was a guide. They had, a military man

1015
00:54:18,080 --> 00:54:22,200
Speaker 3: named Colonel Ives, who he calls a detestable man, a

1016
00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:26,760
Speaker 3: disastrous guide, who professed to know a new shorter route

1017
00:54:26,800 --> 00:54:30,479
Speaker 3: through the Sierra Nevada mountains. But in fact, it turns

1018
00:54:30,520 --> 00:54:32,720
Speaker 3: out they took the route and then they got stuck

1019
00:54:32,960 --> 00:54:36,520
Speaker 3: in a snowstorm in the winter, and they were stuck

1020
00:54:36,560 --> 00:54:39,080
Speaker 3: in a cave and they couldn't get out. This, of course,

1021
00:54:39,120 --> 00:54:43,880
Speaker 3: mirrors real incidents in history, like the quote shortcut that

1022
00:54:44,040 --> 00:54:46,440
Speaker 3: was taken by the members of the Donner Party. This

1023
00:54:46,680 --> 00:54:49,080
Speaker 3: was a path that others had taken in the past.

1024
00:54:49,120 --> 00:54:52,120
Speaker 3: But basically the Donner Party, when they took a different

1025
00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:54,640
Speaker 3: path through the Sierra Nevada has got delayed and then

1026
00:54:54,760 --> 00:54:57,400
Speaker 3: got stuck up in the mountains in the winter. So

1027
00:54:57,440 --> 00:54:59,560
Speaker 3: he describes them getting stuck in this cave, and then

1028
00:54:59,600 --> 00:55:02,240
Speaker 3: Calhoun and says, quote, we had run out of food.

1029
00:55:02,520 --> 00:55:05,840
Speaker 3: We ate the oxen, all of the horses, even my

1030
00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:09,680
Speaker 3: own dog, and that lasted us about a month. After that,

1031
00:55:09,800 --> 00:55:13,680
Speaker 3: we turned to our belts, shoes, any roots we could

1032
00:55:13,680 --> 00:55:15,920
Speaker 3: dig up. But you know, there's no real nourishment in

1033
00:55:15,960 --> 00:55:20,080
Speaker 3: those we remained famished. The day that Jones died, I

1034
00:55:20,160 --> 00:55:24,080
Speaker 3: was out collecting wood. He had expired from malnourishment, and

1035
00:55:24,120 --> 00:55:27,080
Speaker 3: when I returned, the others were cooking his legs for dinner.

1036
00:55:27,600 --> 00:55:29,799
Speaker 3: Would I have stopped it had I been there, I

1037
00:55:29,840 --> 00:55:32,720
Speaker 3: don't know, but I must say when I stepped inside

1038
00:55:32,719 --> 00:55:36,720
Speaker 3: that cave the smell of meat cooking, I thanked the Lord.

1039
00:55:37,239 --> 00:55:43,799
Speaker 3: I thanked the Lord. And then things got out of hand.

1040
00:55:43,640 --> 00:55:48,080
Speaker 3: And he goes on to describe how he, you know,

1041
00:55:48,239 --> 00:55:51,200
Speaker 3: only ate you know, the meat from the people who

1042
00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:55,640
Speaker 3: had died naturally, and he ate sparingly. But the others

1043
00:55:55,680 --> 00:55:58,600
Speaker 3: something changed in them, something came over them, and they

1044
00:55:58,640 --> 00:56:03,480
Speaker 3: had to eat a special Ives became insane, and he

1045
00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:07,000
Speaker 3: just kept killing other people from the cave so he

1046
00:56:07,040 --> 00:56:11,480
Speaker 3: could eat them. And at last, Calhoun says that his

1047
00:56:11,600 --> 00:56:14,719
Speaker 3: courage failed him, and he fled the cave, and he

1048
00:56:14,840 --> 00:56:18,840
Speaker 3: wandered out and eventually came across this fort. But the

1049
00:56:18,880 --> 00:56:22,719
Speaker 3: way the story trails off, it is alleged here that

1050
00:56:22,840 --> 00:56:25,239
Speaker 3: Colonel Ives is still alive up in the cave with

1051
00:56:25,280 --> 00:56:28,759
Speaker 3: at least one other person, innocent person stuck up there

1052
00:56:28,800 --> 00:56:32,800
Speaker 3: with him, a woman named McCready. Is she still alive

1053
00:56:33,200 --> 00:56:37,280
Speaker 3: as far as Calhoun knows, possibly she is. So Heart decides,

1054
00:56:37,600 --> 00:56:39,959
Speaker 3: based on the story that they immediately have to send

1055
00:56:39,960 --> 00:56:41,120
Speaker 3: out a rescue party.

1056
00:56:42,360 --> 00:56:45,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, nobody really wants to go, but Heart is, you know,

1057
00:56:45,640 --> 00:56:48,560
Speaker 1: he's dedicated to what is right here, and he says,

1058
00:56:48,640 --> 00:56:50,360
Speaker 1: it's our job, it's our job. We have to do it.

1059
00:56:50,400 --> 00:56:58,360
Speaker 1: There's no choice.

1060
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:02,880
Speaker 3: Everybody's getting ready to leave. But George comes up to

1061
00:57:02,920 --> 00:57:06,480
Speaker 3: Heart and Boyd and stops them to warn them about something.

1062
00:57:07,080 --> 00:57:10,000
Speaker 3: And it's based on Calhoun's story. What he wants to

1063
00:57:10,040 --> 00:57:14,120
Speaker 3: warn them about is the wind to Go being spoken

1064
00:57:14,200 --> 00:57:17,160
Speaker 3: of by some of the people of the north. In reality,

1065
00:57:17,360 --> 00:57:21,120
Speaker 3: I believe the Windygo legend comes from Algonquin folklore, which

1066
00:57:21,160 --> 00:57:24,960
Speaker 3: would have been further north and east. But here George

1067
00:57:24,960 --> 00:57:29,680
Speaker 3: explains and Heart translates for Boyd. The gist of it

1068
00:57:29,760 --> 00:57:33,320
Speaker 3: is a man eats another's flesh, usually the flesh of

1069
00:57:33,360 --> 00:57:37,320
Speaker 3: an enemy, and in doing so, he steals the man's strength,

1070
00:57:37,520 --> 00:57:42,120
Speaker 3: his essence, his spirit. His hunger becomes insatiable. The more

1071
00:57:42,160 --> 00:57:44,560
Speaker 3: he eats, the more he wants to and the more

1072
00:57:44,560 --> 00:57:49,440
Speaker 3: he eats, the stronger he becomes. And Heart is, like George,

1073
00:57:49,480 --> 00:57:53,000
Speaker 3: people don't still do that, do they? And George responds

1074
00:57:53,040 --> 00:57:55,480
Speaker 3: by telling him that white man eats the body of

1075
00:57:55,560 --> 00:57:57,040
Speaker 3: Jesus Christ every Sunday.

1076
00:57:57,520 --> 00:58:00,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he flips the high that he's been reading

1077
00:58:00,920 --> 00:58:03,320
Speaker 1: the soft ov and it has Christian iconography on the

1078
00:58:03,320 --> 00:58:03,800
Speaker 1: other side.

1079
00:58:04,000 --> 00:58:08,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a nice moment. So the party sets out

1080
00:58:08,640 --> 00:58:12,920
Speaker 3: on the rescue mission. The party is Hart, Boyd, Reich, Toffler, George,

1081
00:58:13,040 --> 00:58:17,320
Speaker 3: and the stranger Colhoun. They pack up provisions, they bundle up,

1082
00:58:17,320 --> 00:58:19,440
Speaker 3: and they head into the mountains, and so we get

1083
00:58:19,480 --> 00:58:22,440
Speaker 3: a little montage of their journey. I like one little

1084
00:58:22,440 --> 00:58:25,040
Speaker 3: moment on the journey where Colhoun helps Toffler find a

1085
00:58:25,120 --> 00:58:30,040
Speaker 3: rhyme when he's composing as him like he says, he

1086
00:58:30,160 --> 00:58:32,400
Speaker 3: ends a line with the word servant, and he's going

1087
00:58:32,440 --> 00:58:41,200
Speaker 3: like leervent deervant, and Calhoun is like fervent. And Toffler

1088
00:58:41,280 --> 00:58:46,959
Speaker 3: is very, very helped by this. He's appreciative. But anyway,

1089
00:58:46,720 --> 00:58:49,800
Speaker 3: they are making their way along through the mountains and

1090
00:58:49,840 --> 00:58:52,200
Speaker 3: at one point they stop in this high mountain pass

1091
00:58:52,240 --> 00:58:55,880
Speaker 3: in the snow, and Boyd kind of questions Colhoun. He's

1092
00:58:55,920 --> 00:58:58,600
Speaker 3: clearly he's curious. He says, when you ate the flesh

1093
00:58:58,600 --> 00:59:01,360
Speaker 3: of the man, afterwards, you said your hunger was different,

1094
00:59:01,920 --> 00:59:07,560
Speaker 3: more wanton. Did you feel physically different, stronger? And Calhoun

1095
00:59:08,080 --> 00:59:12,360
Speaker 3: kind of mildly says, I seem to recall something like that,

1096
00:59:12,960 --> 00:59:18,200
Speaker 3: feeling some kind of virility. He's being very reticent about

1097
00:59:18,200 --> 00:59:22,760
Speaker 3: it now, but this will become funnier in retrospect. Also,

1098
00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:26,800
Speaker 3: I just have to comment on everybody's nineteenth century sunglasses here.

1099
00:59:28,160 --> 00:59:31,160
Speaker 3: They've all had these shaded goggles of various kinds that

1100
00:59:31,240 --> 00:59:33,960
Speaker 3: look like, I don't know, they look like Vin Diesel

1101
00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:34,760
Speaker 3: and pitch black.

1102
00:59:35,040 --> 00:59:37,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, Robert Carlisle here reminds me a little bit of

1103
00:59:38,440 --> 00:59:41,320
Speaker 1: Kurt Russell. And the thing actually with the sunglasses and

1104
00:59:41,360 --> 00:59:43,000
Speaker 1: to a certain extent with the hat. He does not

1105
00:59:43,080 --> 00:59:46,600
Speaker 1: have the full the full hat situation going on.

1106
00:59:46,680 --> 00:59:50,280
Speaker 3: But still so somewhere in here Toffler falls down and

1107
00:59:50,280 --> 00:59:52,560
Speaker 3: gets injured, and so he's got like a bloody wound

1108
00:59:52,640 --> 00:59:56,240
Speaker 3: that they have to bandage up. And later that night,

1109
00:59:56,320 --> 00:59:59,920
Speaker 3: after Toffler's injury, everybody's asleep in their tent when suddenly

1110
01:00:00,440 --> 01:00:03,520
Speaker 3: Toffler comes away can he starts screaming, and it's dark

1111
01:00:03,600 --> 01:00:06,680
Speaker 3: and you can't see what's happening. But then somebody lights

1112
01:00:06,680 --> 01:00:09,840
Speaker 3: a lamp and Toffler is backed up against one side

1113
01:00:09,840 --> 01:00:12,360
Speaker 3: of the tent, terrified, and on the other side of

1114
01:00:12,360 --> 01:00:15,920
Speaker 3: the tent is Calhoun looking pale and kind of crazed

1115
01:00:16,120 --> 01:00:19,480
Speaker 3: with blood on his lips, and Toffler says, he was

1116
01:00:19,720 --> 01:00:26,480
Speaker 3: licking me. And this is interesting because rob if you

1117
01:00:26,520 --> 01:00:33,760
Speaker 3: know what I mean, Robert Carlisle plays Calhoun very straightforwardly

1118
01:00:33,880 --> 01:00:37,640
Speaker 3: before this, like there's nothing to indicate really that they

1119
01:00:37,640 --> 01:00:40,040
Speaker 3: would should have any concern about him. He seems like

1120
01:00:40,080 --> 01:00:45,080
Speaker 3: a wronged, victimized man who is frightened and in search

1121
01:00:45,120 --> 01:00:50,400
Speaker 3: of justice, Like there's nothing about him that reads as abnormal.

1122
01:00:52,080 --> 01:00:56,160
Speaker 3: But that starts falling apart on this journey. So Calhoun

1123
01:00:56,240 --> 01:00:58,919
Speaker 3: pleads with hard on the others he's apologizing. He says

1124
01:00:58,960 --> 01:01:01,800
Speaker 3: he was having a nightmare and then he woke up

1125
01:01:01,840 --> 01:01:04,880
Speaker 3: to find himself crouched over Toffler licking the wound, and

1126
01:01:04,920 --> 01:01:07,360
Speaker 3: then he asks them to restrain him for the rest

1127
01:01:07,400 --> 01:01:10,000
Speaker 3: of the journey, so they do. They tie his hands,

1128
01:01:10,040 --> 01:01:13,480
Speaker 3: and then the next day they come to the cave,

1129
01:01:13,720 --> 01:01:17,000
Speaker 3: the cave where there should be ives and missus McCready

1130
01:01:18,240 --> 01:01:22,320
Speaker 3: and I still have strong memories of how freaky this

1131
01:01:22,440 --> 01:01:26,760
Speaker 3: scene was. The first time I saw it, such a

1132
01:01:27,120 --> 01:01:31,280
Speaker 3: powerful sense of unease and menace, and things just steadily

1133
01:01:31,320 --> 01:01:34,040
Speaker 3: becoming weirder and more chaotic by the moment.

1134
01:01:34,920 --> 01:01:38,920
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, the editing is superb here. The music is

1135
01:01:39,120 --> 01:01:42,200
Speaker 1: incredible building that tension. We get these kind of like

1136
01:01:42,760 --> 01:01:46,960
Speaker 1: rumbling rhythmic beats, like there's some primal force welling up

1137
01:01:47,480 --> 01:01:48,520
Speaker 1: through the whole situation.

1138
01:01:49,240 --> 01:01:51,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. And so as they approached the cave, Calhoun,

1139
01:01:51,960 --> 01:01:55,640
Speaker 3: who had been again, he was fairly composed and sympathetic

1140
01:01:55,680 --> 01:01:58,960
Speaker 3: at first, I mean, frightened, but that's all. He starts

1141
01:01:59,040 --> 01:02:04,160
Speaker 3: acting increasing erratic, not just afraid, but like quaking and

1142
01:02:04,240 --> 01:02:07,720
Speaker 3: moving his body in bizarre ways and making these weird

1143
01:02:07,760 --> 01:02:11,840
Speaker 3: little like yipping and whimpering noises again at first like

1144
01:02:11,920 --> 01:02:16,360
Speaker 3: he's afraid, but then just more and more weird, like

1145
01:02:16,400 --> 01:02:21,720
Speaker 3: some kind of trapped wolverine that's tipping from fear into

1146
01:02:21,800 --> 01:02:26,800
Speaker 3: a kind of threatening playfulness. And so Reike and Boyd

1147
01:02:26,920 --> 01:02:30,280
Speaker 3: go into the cave to investigate, and everybody else waits outside.

1148
01:02:30,600 --> 01:02:33,720
Speaker 3: And in this scene, Reich makes his contempt for Boyd

1149
01:02:33,800 --> 01:02:37,520
Speaker 3: clear while they're searching, like obviously he views Boyd as

1150
01:02:37,600 --> 01:02:41,920
Speaker 3: gutless and unworthy of command, and inside the cave, they

1151
01:02:41,960 --> 01:02:45,560
Speaker 3: find some kind of pit like a natural ubliet, and

1152
01:02:45,640 --> 01:02:48,280
Speaker 3: they go down and investigate this, and what they find

1153
01:02:48,320 --> 01:02:54,320
Speaker 3: inside is too many skeletons, too many skeletons to Magicalhoon's story.

1154
01:02:54,760 --> 01:02:59,280
Speaker 3: And the piles of clothes inside include a military uniform.

1155
01:02:59,840 --> 01:03:02,640
Speaker 3: So if the colonel ives of the story was not

1156
01:03:02,800 --> 01:03:06,360
Speaker 3: the eater and was instead eaten, who was the eater?

1157
01:03:07,200 --> 01:03:09,200
Speaker 3: And then the guys inside the cave are like, oh no,

1158
01:03:09,440 --> 01:03:11,160
Speaker 3: and they scream it's a trap.

1159
01:03:11,560 --> 01:03:14,120
Speaker 1: And this whole cave. To drive this home, this this

1160
01:03:14,200 --> 01:03:18,840
Speaker 1: is this is like a wonderful like cannibal cavern situation.

1161
01:03:19,000 --> 01:03:21,200
Speaker 1: We're right out of an episode of Tales from the Crypt.

1162
01:03:21,440 --> 01:03:25,120
Speaker 3: Disgusting. Yeah, the skeletons all have this kind of melted

1163
01:03:25,360 --> 01:03:27,960
Speaker 3: fat looking thing over them, like they look they're kind

1164
01:03:28,000 --> 01:03:32,640
Speaker 3: of waxy. It's really gross. And then so Boyd and

1165
01:03:32,680 --> 01:03:35,920
Speaker 3: Reich rush back outside, but Colhoun is already on the attack.

1166
01:03:36,480 --> 01:03:40,000
Speaker 3: He first he starts frantically digging in the dirt outside

1167
01:03:40,040 --> 01:03:43,520
Speaker 3: the cave and he digs up a knife. He attacks

1168
01:03:43,600 --> 01:03:46,840
Speaker 3: and stabs Heart. A heart lays on the ground dying.

1169
01:03:47,120 --> 01:03:50,600
Speaker 3: He shoots George, and then he chases Toffler out into

1170
01:03:50,640 --> 01:03:53,080
Speaker 3: the woods, and this is where I was saying Colhoun.

1171
01:03:53,520 --> 01:03:56,920
Speaker 3: He gets into full like late sequel Freddy Krueger mode.

1172
01:03:56,960 --> 01:03:59,960
Speaker 3: He is having fun, like he tries to shoot top

1173
01:04:00,400 --> 01:04:03,280
Speaker 3: but the gun jams and he goes that is so annoying.

1174
01:04:04,080 --> 01:04:07,480
Speaker 3: And then he's like playing with him. He's brandishing the

1175
01:04:07,560 --> 01:04:09,760
Speaker 3: knife at him and kind of dancing, and he says,

1176
01:04:09,840 --> 01:04:15,400
Speaker 3: run run. So the chase breaks out, and interesting music

1177
01:04:15,480 --> 01:04:18,160
Speaker 3: choices here once again. The music at first in this

1178
01:04:18,320 --> 01:04:22,520
Speaker 3: chase is not like a threatening, dissonant jabs. It's not

1179
01:04:22,720 --> 01:04:26,360
Speaker 3: minor key chase music. It's a hodoun It's like a lively,

1180
01:04:26,560 --> 01:04:29,360
Speaker 3: upbeat major key fiddle and banjo music.

1181
01:04:29,800 --> 01:04:34,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, you don't expect it to go with this direction,

1182
01:04:35,120 --> 01:04:38,000
Speaker 4: but it, you know, looking at it, this was the

1183
01:04:38,360 --> 01:04:41,160
Speaker 4: obvious choice, Like it breaks the tension and we get

1184
01:04:41,200 --> 01:04:42,360
Speaker 4: to go in a different direction here.

1185
01:04:42,800 --> 01:04:46,040
Speaker 3: So Boyd and Reike run after them again, even though

1186
01:04:46,640 --> 01:04:48,959
Speaker 3: Boyd is the officer and Reich is the private. Reich

1187
01:04:49,080 --> 01:04:51,720
Speaker 3: is giving all the orders and Boyd is lagging behind,

1188
01:04:51,800 --> 01:04:56,840
Speaker 3: barely complying. They find Toffler's body disemboweled. Colhoun is a

1189
01:04:56,880 --> 01:05:01,000
Speaker 3: bit like Jason Vorhees here, seemingly disappearing and reappearing through

1190
01:05:01,040 --> 01:05:05,200
Speaker 3: the woods. Kind of an arcane trickster. At one point here,

1191
01:05:05,240 --> 01:05:07,760
Speaker 3: Boyd tries to chicken out. He's like, I'm going back,

1192
01:05:07,800 --> 01:05:10,200
Speaker 3: I've got to go back, but Reike kind of bullies

1193
01:05:10,280 --> 01:05:14,560
Speaker 3: him into staying. Reike is killed by Calhoun with a

1194
01:05:14,640 --> 01:05:16,880
Speaker 3: knife to the chest and he falls off a cliff.

1195
01:05:17,880 --> 01:05:21,919
Speaker 3: Boyd panics and then to escape Calhoun, he jumps off

1196
01:05:21,960 --> 01:05:25,360
Speaker 3: the cliff. He survives the fall, but he falls into

1197
01:05:25,400 --> 01:05:28,480
Speaker 3: a bunch of trees, breaks his leg, and then tumbles

1198
01:05:28,600 --> 01:05:31,480
Speaker 3: along with Reike's body, into a hidden pit in the

1199
01:05:31,520 --> 01:05:35,400
Speaker 3: earth covered by pine branches, and then he falls down

1200
01:05:35,440 --> 01:05:39,480
Speaker 3: in there along with Reike's body, and time begins to pass.

1201
01:05:39,680 --> 01:05:43,960
Speaker 3: So we get a little montage showing kind of I

1202
01:05:44,000 --> 01:05:47,080
Speaker 3: don't know, maybe days going by, and we see Colhoun

1203
01:05:48,480 --> 01:05:52,560
Speaker 3: transformed into a free roaming master of the wilderness. Now

1204
01:05:52,600 --> 01:05:54,800
Speaker 3: he's just sitting on a shoal of pebbles in the

1205
01:05:54,840 --> 01:05:58,120
Speaker 3: middle of a river, eating lustily from a big joint

1206
01:05:58,120 --> 01:06:01,240
Speaker 3: of human meat and then laid. He's skipping rocks in

1207
01:06:01,320 --> 01:06:03,960
Speaker 3: the stream with his shirt covered in blood and blood

1208
01:06:04,000 --> 01:06:04,840
Speaker 3: all in his beard.

1209
01:06:05,360 --> 01:06:06,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, just loving life.

1210
01:06:06,480 --> 01:06:11,120
Speaker 3: At this point, back in the pit, Boyd sets his bone. Yeah,

1211
01:06:11,120 --> 01:06:13,800
Speaker 3: so warning folks, there is a self bone setting scene

1212
01:06:13,880 --> 01:06:17,400
Speaker 3: in the film, and it seems like he's clearly done

1213
01:06:17,440 --> 01:06:22,560
Speaker 3: for unless he could get some nourishment. And there's Reich

1214
01:06:23,000 --> 01:06:23,959
Speaker 3: right there.

1215
01:06:24,200 --> 01:06:26,560
Speaker 1: And I love right how Right's body is presented here.

1216
01:06:26,600 --> 01:06:30,040
Speaker 1: Reich has like just wide open dead eyes, like just

1217
01:06:30,160 --> 01:06:33,600
Speaker 1: continuing to judge him for his cowardice.

1218
01:06:33,200 --> 01:06:37,120
Speaker 3: These horrible cloudy eyes, but this horrible, huge grin, this

1219
01:06:37,320 --> 01:06:40,880
Speaker 3: dead rictus and he's covered.

1220
01:06:40,520 --> 01:06:42,280
Speaker 1: In dried, like blackened blood.

1221
01:06:42,680 --> 01:06:45,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's interesting to see how Boyd works his

1222
01:06:45,800 --> 01:06:48,120
Speaker 3: way up to it, Like it starts with him taking

1223
01:06:48,320 --> 01:06:50,880
Speaker 3: Reke's coat off his body because he's cold. He's like,

1224
01:06:50,920 --> 01:06:53,280
Speaker 3: can I borrow this? You don't need it? And then

1225
01:06:53,320 --> 01:06:56,040
Speaker 3: he's like, well, I already took the coat, and he

1226
01:06:56,120 --> 01:07:00,600
Speaker 3: gets the knife, and it's mostly implied what he does next,

1227
01:07:00,640 --> 01:07:03,840
Speaker 3: But sometime later we see Boyd emerge from the pit

1228
01:07:04,440 --> 01:07:08,480
Speaker 3: somehow healed, like he's good, he's all right enough to walk,

1229
01:07:08,520 --> 01:07:11,439
Speaker 3: and he makes the track back to the fort. When

1230
01:07:11,440 --> 01:07:14,800
Speaker 3: he arrives, he's received and taken in by Martha and Cleaves,

1231
01:07:14,800 --> 01:07:17,520
Speaker 3: who have returned from their trip, and Knox, who was

1232
01:07:17,880 --> 01:07:20,560
Speaker 3: passed out drunk the whole time there while everybody else

1233
01:07:20,680 --> 01:07:24,680
Speaker 3: was doing the things in the previous scenes. So there's

1234
01:07:24,680 --> 01:07:27,240
Speaker 3: a scene here where Boyd goes to Martha. Now he's

1235
01:07:27,280 --> 01:07:30,560
Speaker 3: clearly he's turned on to the idea of the Windigo,

1236
01:07:30,800 --> 01:07:32,760
Speaker 3: and he goes to her to ask if she knows

1237
01:07:32,800 --> 01:07:36,240
Speaker 3: anything about it, can it be stopped. She gives a

1238
01:07:36,280 --> 01:07:39,360
Speaker 3: different kind of answer than he was expecting. She says

1239
01:07:39,400 --> 01:07:43,440
Speaker 3: the Windigo always takes, never gives, and to stop the

1240
01:07:43,440 --> 01:07:46,560
Speaker 3: wind to go, she says, you must give yourself, you

1241
01:07:46,680 --> 01:07:51,680
Speaker 3: have to die. Implicit in this is that she understands

1242
01:07:51,960 --> 01:07:55,919
Speaker 3: Boyd to be part of the Windigo, and the only

1243
01:07:55,960 --> 01:07:58,640
Speaker 3: way to truly beat it is to admit that you

1244
01:07:58,680 --> 01:08:02,400
Speaker 3: are part of it. For sake, cure hunger, and die. Yeah.

1245
01:08:02,480 --> 01:08:05,880
Speaker 1: And Boyd doesn't say I'm asking for a friend. Yeah,

1246
01:08:05,920 --> 01:08:06,960
Speaker 1: I didn't try to cover it.

1247
01:08:07,400 --> 01:08:11,160
Speaker 3: Yeah. So as time goes on, General Slawson and his

1248
01:08:11,360 --> 01:08:14,480
Speaker 3: entourage arrived at the fort. They hear Boyd's story and

1249
01:08:14,520 --> 01:08:17,559
Speaker 3: they investigate the cave, but they find nothing there, no bodies,

1250
01:08:17,600 --> 01:08:20,120
Speaker 3: no bones. There's not a scrap of evidence to back

1251
01:08:20,200 --> 01:08:23,240
Speaker 3: up the story Boyd has told. And Slawson tries to

1252
01:08:23,240 --> 01:08:27,400
Speaker 3: get Boyd to amend his statement, but he won't anyway.

1253
01:08:27,479 --> 01:08:30,479
Speaker 3: General Slawson has brought in a new commanding officer to

1254
01:08:30,560 --> 01:08:33,360
Speaker 3: serve as a replacement for Heart. It's a colonel Is.

1255
01:08:33,520 --> 01:08:35,880
Speaker 3: So step into the room, Colonel, let's let's see your

1256
01:08:35,920 --> 01:08:40,920
Speaker 3: new captain Boyd here, and it is a colonel named Ives. Uh, oh,

1257
01:08:40,960 --> 01:08:43,840
Speaker 3: it's him. It's Colhoun. He's all cleaned up now he's

1258
01:08:43,880 --> 01:08:47,759
Speaker 3: in uniform. And it turns out Colhoun is Ives.

1259
01:08:48,360 --> 01:08:52,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, gone is the is the prospector's beard and the

1260
01:08:52,400 --> 01:08:55,880
Speaker 1: crazy eyes. Now we have this like steely calm that

1261
01:08:55,960 --> 01:08:58,760
Speaker 1: is over him. He looks very professional. He has establishment

1262
01:08:58,800 --> 01:08:59,920
Speaker 1: cannibalism at this point.

1263
01:09:00,240 --> 01:09:03,479
Speaker 3: Yes, so Boyd immediately he freaks out and he tries

1264
01:09:03,520 --> 01:09:05,960
Speaker 3: to tell everyone, but the story doesn't check out because

1265
01:09:06,000 --> 01:09:08,919
Speaker 3: in his story he got a shot off on Coolhoun,

1266
01:09:09,000 --> 01:09:11,599
Speaker 3: like he shot him in the shoulder. So they're like, okay, well,

1267
01:09:11,600 --> 01:09:13,519
Speaker 3: if your story's true, he would have a scar. So

1268
01:09:13,560 --> 01:09:16,120
Speaker 3: they look on ives body and there are no scars.

1269
01:09:16,240 --> 01:09:18,880
Speaker 3: They find nothing, just like well fed, unblemish skin.

1270
01:09:19,640 --> 01:09:22,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, so Boyd's stock here. He continues to go down

1271
01:09:22,840 --> 01:09:25,639
Speaker 1: in the generals the general's view.

1272
01:09:25,560 --> 01:09:28,280
Speaker 3: Here, that's right, So everybody settles in with the new kernel.

1273
01:09:28,479 --> 01:09:30,759
Speaker 3: There's like a dinner scene where they're all having ribs,

1274
01:09:30,840 --> 01:09:34,880
Speaker 3: except Cleaves discovers that neither Colonel Ives nor Boyd will

1275
01:09:34,920 --> 01:09:38,559
Speaker 3: eat meat. Ives never eats meat at all, since he

1276
01:09:38,600 --> 01:09:41,000
Speaker 3: can't forget it used to be an animal, and Boyd

1277
01:09:41,040 --> 01:09:45,320
Speaker 3: says he will only eat meat as a last resort.

1278
01:09:46,200 --> 01:09:48,920
Speaker 3: There's a later scene where Boyd is looking out the

1279
01:09:48,960 --> 01:09:53,360
Speaker 3: window at Cleaves as he's setting up some kind of sculpture,

1280
01:09:53,439 --> 01:09:58,080
Speaker 3: like a big cow skeleton thing, and Boyd fantasizes about

1281
01:09:58,160 --> 01:10:00,640
Speaker 3: killing him and eating his organs, and Boyd kind of

1282
01:10:00,640 --> 01:10:02,600
Speaker 3: snaps out of it. It's like, what's going on with me?

1283
01:10:02,720 --> 01:10:05,360
Speaker 3: Why can't I stop thinking about eating people?

1284
01:10:05,600 --> 01:10:07,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, It's like it's kind of a version of the

1285
01:10:07,360 --> 01:10:09,920
Speaker 1: Looney Tune scene where you know, one character looks at

1286
01:10:09,960 --> 01:10:12,160
Speaker 1: another and they just just see a giant turkey leg.

1287
01:10:12,479 --> 01:10:12,759
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1288
01:10:12,840 --> 01:10:17,040
Speaker 3: Yeah. So later there's one night alone, Boyd is like

1289
01:10:17,160 --> 01:10:20,320
Speaker 3: he's paranoid. He's sitting outside clutching a big kitchen knife

1290
01:10:20,520 --> 01:10:23,800
Speaker 3: with a blanket around him, and Ives comes out. He's

1291
01:10:23,960 --> 01:10:28,240
Speaker 3: very suave and dapper, and he's smoking a cigarello out

1292
01:10:28,280 --> 01:10:31,400
Speaker 3: in the cold, and Ives breaks the tension by essentially

1293
01:10:31,479 --> 01:10:35,160
Speaker 3: now admitting it because they're alone. He says to Boyd,

1294
01:10:35,280 --> 01:10:37,760
Speaker 3: I found your private reichup there, or what was left

1295
01:10:37,760 --> 01:10:42,200
Speaker 3: of him. You didn't finish. I can't blame you. He

1296
01:10:42,320 --> 01:10:44,760
Speaker 3: was tough, but then a good soldier ought to be.

1297
01:10:45,320 --> 01:10:47,080
Speaker 3: And then he takes a big drag out of his

1298
01:10:47,160 --> 01:10:50,679
Speaker 3: smoke and he says, you know, not too long ago,

1299
01:10:50,880 --> 01:10:53,760
Speaker 3: I couldn't do that. Could barely take a breath without

1300
01:10:53,840 --> 01:10:58,240
Speaker 3: coughing up a pint of blood. Tuberculosis. That along with

1301
01:10:58,320 --> 01:11:03,759
Speaker 3: fierce headaches, depression, suicidal ambition. I was in pretty horrible shape.

1302
01:11:04,000 --> 01:11:06,400
Speaker 3: In fact, I was on my way to a sanatorium

1303
01:11:06,439 --> 01:11:10,680
Speaker 3: to convalesce or more likely die, when en route, this

1304
01:11:10,840 --> 01:11:14,600
Speaker 3: Indian scout told me a curious story. Man eats the

1305
01:11:14,600 --> 01:11:18,560
Speaker 3: flesh of another, he takes the other man's strength, absorbs

1306
01:11:18,560 --> 01:11:23,280
Speaker 3: his spirit. Well, naturally, I just had to try it. Consequently,

1307
01:11:23,360 --> 01:11:25,880
Speaker 3: I ate the scout first, and you know what, he

1308
01:11:26,040 --> 01:11:31,839
Speaker 3: was absolutely right. I grew stronger. And then he launches

1309
01:11:31,880 --> 01:11:34,960
Speaker 3: into telling the wagon train story is sort of a

1310
01:11:35,000 --> 01:11:37,360
Speaker 3: different version of the story he told at the beginning,

1311
01:11:38,160 --> 01:11:41,360
Speaker 3: but now he is colonel Ives. He manages to get

1312
01:11:41,400 --> 01:11:43,280
Speaker 3: people stuck in the mountain, so he can eat them.

1313
01:11:43,320 --> 01:11:46,080
Speaker 3: He says he ate five men in three months. And

1314
01:11:46,120 --> 01:11:50,040
Speaker 3: he says tuberculosis vanished, as did the headaches and the

1315
01:11:50,080 --> 01:11:55,440
Speaker 3: black thoughts. I returned that spring, happy and healthy and virile,

1316
01:11:57,080 --> 01:12:01,720
Speaker 3: And here I've shifts shifts to kind of tempting, to

1317
01:12:01,720 --> 01:12:05,160
Speaker 3: being the satan figure tempting Boyd. He's like, you know

1318
01:12:05,200 --> 01:12:08,680
Speaker 3: what I'm talking about. You've done it too. You know

1319
01:12:08,760 --> 01:12:12,719
Speaker 3: its power, So why are you resisting? And Boyd says,

1320
01:12:13,040 --> 01:12:16,000
Speaker 3: what's wrong? It's wrong to eat people? But Ives mocks him.

1321
01:12:16,000 --> 01:12:19,360
Speaker 3: He says, morality is the last bastion of a coward.

1322
01:12:19,880 --> 01:12:22,519
Speaker 3: It's like a man says he cannot do something because

1323
01:12:22,560 --> 01:12:25,600
Speaker 3: it would be wrong. The real reason is because he's afraid.

1324
01:12:26,760 --> 01:12:28,479
Speaker 3: And then he keeps tempting him, like he gets a

1325
01:12:28,520 --> 01:12:31,120
Speaker 3: cut on his hand and he's like, sniff my blood. Mmmm.

1326
01:12:32,200 --> 01:12:35,639
Speaker 1: It's a great see this and a subsequent sequence. We're

1327
01:12:35,640 --> 01:12:39,120
Speaker 1: going to get a subsequent temptation segment sequence between Ives

1328
01:12:39,560 --> 01:12:44,120
Speaker 1: and Boyd. Just tremendous here, especially from Carlisle. Just just

1329
01:12:44,200 --> 01:12:46,880
Speaker 1: great acting, love every of the way the scenes are

1330
01:12:46,920 --> 01:12:47,439
Speaker 1: put together.

1331
01:12:47,680 --> 01:12:51,880
Speaker 3: Tremendous, fantastic. Yeah, and Boyd here tries to attack Ives,

1332
01:12:51,920 --> 01:12:54,679
Speaker 3: but they are interrupted by Martha and then by Knox,

1333
01:12:55,160 --> 01:12:58,839
Speaker 3: who they quickly discovered that Cleaves has been killed along

1334
01:12:58,840 --> 01:13:01,920
Speaker 3: with all of the horses, and Boyd is put under

1335
01:13:02,000 --> 01:13:14,000
Speaker 3: arrest on suspicion for that killing. So the next day

1336
01:13:14,000 --> 01:13:16,320
Speaker 3: Martha volunteers to make the journey by foot to San

1337
01:13:16,400 --> 01:13:19,880
Speaker 3: Miguel to get General Slawson for you know, I guess

1338
01:13:19,960 --> 01:13:23,960
Speaker 3: to come back and investigate crimes once again. So that

1339
01:13:24,040 --> 01:13:27,600
Speaker 3: just leaves Knox, Boyd and Ives at the fort, and

1340
01:13:27,680 --> 01:13:30,360
Speaker 3: so Boyd is under arrest, and there's this scene where

1341
01:13:30,439 --> 01:13:34,559
Speaker 3: Ives is cooking a stew and Knox is like can

1342
01:13:34,640 --> 01:13:37,000
Speaker 3: I help? And Ives is like, not right now, perhaps

1343
01:13:37,120 --> 01:13:40,519
Speaker 3: later you can contribute. Yes, yes, So.

1344
01:13:40,439 --> 01:13:42,120
Speaker 1: We get a little bit of the comedy here, but

1345
01:13:42,160 --> 01:13:44,400
Speaker 1: they you know, they underscore it's it's.

1346
01:13:44,280 --> 01:13:48,200
Speaker 3: Nice, yeah, and Boyd listens. So in this scene there

1347
01:13:48,200 --> 01:13:50,439
Speaker 3: are things happening in the other room, and it becomes

1348
01:13:50,479 --> 01:13:53,599
Speaker 3: apparent that somebody in the other room has killed Knox

1349
01:13:53,680 --> 01:13:56,599
Speaker 3: with his own sword. But then when the door swings open,

1350
01:13:56,720 --> 01:14:02,519
Speaker 3: it's not i'ves standing there, it's Colonel Heart Yep. He

1351
01:14:02,560 --> 01:14:05,960
Speaker 3: smiles and he says hello, Boyd, and he's covered with blood.

1352
01:14:06,040 --> 01:14:09,400
Speaker 1: Now he doesn't have any of his glasses on. There's

1353
01:14:09,439 --> 01:14:11,920
Speaker 1: a new energy to this man. It's clear that he

1354
01:14:12,000 --> 01:14:13,640
Speaker 1: has engaged in the cannibalism.

1355
01:14:13,960 --> 01:14:16,120
Speaker 3: That's right. So he tells the story of how he

1356
01:14:16,280 --> 01:14:19,639
Speaker 3: thought he was dying, but he found himself being nursed

1357
01:14:19,640 --> 01:14:23,599
Speaker 3: back to health in the cave by Ives, and he

1358
01:14:23,720 --> 01:14:28,040
Speaker 3: was healed from his mortal wound because he ate man flesh.

1359
01:14:28,680 --> 01:14:31,040
Speaker 3: He says, by the time I regained my senses, there

1360
01:14:31,120 --> 01:14:35,880
Speaker 3: was no turning back. I feel terrific. So now Heart

1361
01:14:35,920 --> 01:14:39,439
Speaker 3: and Ives are part of a cannibal conspiracy, and Heart

1362
01:14:39,479 --> 01:14:43,519
Speaker 3: makes a pitch Boyd should join them.

1363
01:14:43,479 --> 01:14:46,960
Speaker 1: And this is where we get this other temptation scene

1364
01:14:47,000 --> 01:14:50,200
Speaker 1: that is just excellent. This is where we get another

1365
01:14:50,320 --> 01:14:55,240
Speaker 1: just tremendous monologue from Carlisle, and it really kind of

1366
01:14:55,360 --> 01:14:58,000
Speaker 1: drives home I think the central thesis of the whole picture.

1367
01:14:58,560 --> 01:15:01,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, so Boyd is taken out to where Ives is.

1368
01:15:01,240 --> 01:15:04,080
Speaker 3: I think they're grilling outside maybe now are they grilling

1369
01:15:04,400 --> 01:15:07,360
Speaker 3: parts of Knox or butchering him? I think, I don't know,

1370
01:15:07,360 --> 01:15:10,960
Speaker 3: They're doing some kind of cannibalism stuff outside and Ives

1371
01:15:11,000 --> 01:15:15,680
Speaker 3: looks at the mountains and he says, manifest destiny, westward expansion,

1372
01:15:16,280 --> 01:15:19,680
Speaker 3: you know, come April, it'll all start again. Thousands of

1373
01:15:19,720 --> 01:15:22,840
Speaker 3: gold hungry Americans will travel over those mountains on their

1374
01:15:22,840 --> 01:15:27,760
Speaker 3: way to new lives, passing right through here. We won't

1375
01:15:27,840 --> 01:15:31,920
Speaker 3: kill indiscriminately, no selectively. Good God, we don't want to

1376
01:15:31,920 --> 01:15:35,360
Speaker 3: break up families. And then oh yeah, horrible, And then

1377
01:15:35,400 --> 01:15:39,040
Speaker 3: he talks about how they want to recruit somebody else.

1378
01:15:39,560 --> 01:15:42,960
Speaker 3: General Slawson. They want to convert him to the religion

1379
01:15:43,360 --> 01:15:47,240
Speaker 3: of cannibalism because it would be useful to have somebody

1380
01:15:47,280 --> 01:15:50,439
Speaker 3: that powerful, right, He says, we don't wish to recruit everyone.

1381
01:15:50,479 --> 01:15:53,040
Speaker 3: We've got enough mouths to feed as it is. We

1382
01:15:53,160 --> 01:15:56,479
Speaker 3: just need a home. And this country is seeking to

1383
01:15:56,520 --> 01:16:00,240
Speaker 3: be whole, stretching out its arms, consuming all it can.

1384
01:16:00,720 --> 01:16:01,839
Speaker 3: We merely follow.

1385
01:16:02,320 --> 01:16:04,839
Speaker 1: Oh and that line there just gives me chills.

1386
01:16:05,439 --> 01:16:08,960
Speaker 3: So Boyd tries to resist them. He says he's not

1387
01:16:09,000 --> 01:16:12,320
Speaker 3: going to be like them, but the bids continue. Carlyle says,

1388
01:16:12,439 --> 01:16:15,120
Speaker 3: you're already one of us almost. You hunger for it,

1389
01:16:15,560 --> 01:16:17,960
Speaker 3: you just won't resign yourself to it.

1390
01:16:18,439 --> 01:16:20,320
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and we get that other line that's always

1391
01:16:20,320 --> 01:16:22,719
Speaker 1: stuck with me. It's not courage to resist me, Boyd,

1392
01:16:23,000 --> 01:16:24,360
Speaker 1: it's courage to accept me.

1393
01:16:24,840 --> 01:16:28,439
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, yeah, but this makes me think, like when

1394
01:16:28,479 --> 01:16:31,000
Speaker 3: are you really part of a conspiracy, like when you

1395
01:16:31,080 --> 01:16:33,960
Speaker 3: do the crime, or when you accept that doing the

1396
01:16:34,040 --> 01:16:35,280
Speaker 3: crime is all right?

1397
01:16:36,120 --> 01:16:39,800
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, And there's a lot to chew on here,

1398
01:16:40,240 --> 01:16:45,479
Speaker 1: Cannibal puns aside, but yeah, it's like this idea that

1399
01:16:45,560 --> 01:16:47,800
Speaker 1: like there is this gravity that is pulling all of

1400
01:16:47,840 --> 01:16:51,759
Speaker 1: them down and there's inevitability to it, And like, Boyd,

1401
01:16:51,760 --> 01:16:55,960
Speaker 1: you're not doing yourself any favors by fighting against the tide.

1402
01:16:56,400 --> 01:16:59,200
Speaker 1: You'd make things so much easier for yourself and for

1403
01:16:59,240 --> 01:17:01,559
Speaker 1: everyone around you if you just gave in, if you've

1404
01:17:01,800 --> 01:17:05,599
Speaker 1: just accepted the world as it is, the world as

1405
01:17:05,640 --> 01:17:08,680
Speaker 1: we've made it, if you just accept that you're a

1406
01:17:08,720 --> 01:17:11,080
Speaker 1: part of it. And that, of course, has been part

1407
01:17:11,200 --> 01:17:14,679
Speaker 1: of Boyd's moral failing thus far. He's just proceeded through

1408
01:17:14,720 --> 01:17:19,920
Speaker 1: life like a thing encased in mud or almost fossilized

1409
01:17:19,960 --> 01:17:24,719
Speaker 1: in his environment and has just been generally just unwilling

1410
01:17:24,720 --> 01:17:28,599
Speaker 1: and unable to attempt to counteract that flow.

1411
01:17:28,800 --> 01:17:33,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, he has acted upon, he does not act against. Yeah, yeah,

1412
01:17:33,800 --> 01:17:37,000
Speaker 3: though he is trying to resist here. And it's interesting

1413
01:17:37,040 --> 01:17:41,160
Speaker 3: the way that Carlisle, the way that i'ves is like

1414
01:17:41,280 --> 01:17:45,360
Speaker 3: papering over distinctions. Like, He's like, you've already done the

1415
01:17:45,360 --> 01:17:49,120
Speaker 3: same as us, But Boyd hasn't unlike them. He has

1416
01:17:49,160 --> 01:17:52,400
Speaker 3: not killed to eat man flesh. He's just eaten of

1417
01:17:52,400 --> 01:17:55,320
Speaker 3: those who already died. But I think they're trying to

1418
01:17:55,439 --> 01:17:59,360
Speaker 3: make that transition for him easier. It's like not observing

1419
01:17:59,400 --> 01:18:03,200
Speaker 3: the distinction. Yeah. So then Ives tries to persuade Boyd

1420
01:18:03,240 --> 01:18:06,240
Speaker 3: by stabbing him, So he stabs him. He's like, all right,

1421
01:18:06,280 --> 01:18:08,120
Speaker 3: now you know the rules. You've either got to eat

1422
01:18:08,200 --> 01:18:11,559
Speaker 3: human or die from your wound. So Ives and Heart

1423
01:18:11,560 --> 01:18:14,160
Speaker 3: like sit around the table enjoying a major Knox stew

1424
01:18:14,680 --> 01:18:17,240
Speaker 3: and at first Boyd resists, but then the pain of

1425
01:18:17,240 --> 01:18:20,320
Speaker 3: his wound becomes too great and his fear of death

1426
01:18:20,360 --> 01:18:22,479
Speaker 3: overwhelms him and he begins to eat.

1427
01:18:22,880 --> 01:18:25,040
Speaker 1: I like, how, Yeah, the answer heres for him to

1428
01:18:25,040 --> 01:18:26,840
Speaker 1: give in and eat the stew too, which is like

1429
01:18:26,880 --> 01:18:30,479
Speaker 1: the completely civilized version of the cannibal feast, which I

1430
01:18:30,520 --> 01:18:32,680
Speaker 1: don't think we've had it up into this point. It's

1431
01:18:32,720 --> 01:18:35,880
Speaker 1: been more like bone nawing. But here is the sanitized

1432
01:18:36,000 --> 01:18:38,640
Speaker 1: version of it, which I think is also rife with

1433
01:18:38,720 --> 01:18:42,080
Speaker 1: so many different interpretations. When you start analyzing this picture

1434
01:18:42,160 --> 01:18:44,639
Speaker 1: like here, here's the refined version of the thing you're

1435
01:18:44,680 --> 01:18:47,639
Speaker 1: afraid of. Give in to it, be become a part

1436
01:18:47,720 --> 01:18:49,280
Speaker 1: of this operation.

1437
01:18:49,720 --> 01:18:52,599
Speaker 3: Yeah. So the next day, of course, Boyd is all

1438
01:18:52,640 --> 01:18:56,200
Speaker 3: healed up. The cannibalism does wonders, and there is a

1439
01:18:56,280 --> 01:19:01,240
Speaker 3: conversation between Boyd and Heart while ives is outside. Heart

1440
01:19:01,240 --> 01:19:03,880
Speaker 3: talks about how he misses his books. They were taking

1441
01:19:03,880 --> 01:19:06,040
Speaker 3: off his shelf, I guess when he was presumed dead,

1442
01:19:06,680 --> 01:19:09,679
Speaker 3: and he muses about how even thousands of years ago,

1443
01:19:09,800 --> 01:19:12,760
Speaker 3: Plato and Aristotle were thinking over the same problems that

1444
01:19:12,800 --> 01:19:16,240
Speaker 3: they can't solve today, like what is happiness and how

1445
01:19:16,280 --> 01:19:20,080
Speaker 3: to get it? And Boyd says Aristotle wanted to get

1446
01:19:20,120 --> 01:19:24,800
Speaker 3: to truth, not happiness, and Heart kind of rebels against this.

1447
01:19:24,920 --> 01:19:27,000
Speaker 3: He says, I spent my whole life trying to do

1448
01:19:27,040 --> 01:19:29,559
Speaker 3: what I thought was right and true, and now here

1449
01:19:29,600 --> 01:19:33,960
Speaker 3: I am. But some cracks appear in Heart's conviction. Boyd

1450
01:19:34,000 --> 01:19:37,160
Speaker 3: reminds him of all the people they killed, cleaves knocks,

1451
01:19:37,720 --> 01:19:41,040
Speaker 3: and Heart kind of he fights his conscience off. He's

1452
01:19:41,040 --> 01:19:43,800
Speaker 3: screaming about how you have to kill to live, But

1453
01:19:43,840 --> 01:19:46,400
Speaker 3: Boyd eventually gets through to him, and Heart kind of

1454
01:19:46,520 --> 01:19:50,400
Speaker 3: collapses and decides you're right. I don't want to go

1455
01:19:50,439 --> 01:19:52,960
Speaker 3: on living like this, Boyd, You've just got to kill me.

1456
01:19:53,120 --> 01:19:56,760
Speaker 1: And Boyd does this scene here, which is intercut with

1457
01:19:56,800 --> 01:20:01,559
Speaker 1: a few things concerning Calhoun and other characters. But this

1458
01:20:01,640 --> 01:20:04,599
Speaker 1: scene I think is pretty admirable because a lot has

1459
01:20:04,680 --> 01:20:08,599
Speaker 1: to happen, particularly with Heart's character, in a very short

1460
01:20:08,640 --> 01:20:14,320
Speaker 1: amount of time, and I think it was done even

1461
01:20:14,360 --> 01:20:18,080
Speaker 1: slightly incorrectly, it would have felt really rushed as it

1462
01:20:18,160 --> 01:20:21,439
Speaker 1: is here, like it feels ultimately feels, you know, a

1463
01:20:21,479 --> 01:20:24,600
Speaker 1: bit on fast forward, but also completely earned. And I

1464
01:20:24,640 --> 01:20:28,360
Speaker 1: think it comes down to the direction, to the performances

1465
01:20:29,000 --> 01:20:30,760
Speaker 1: and just the way they've cut it all together. Like

1466
01:20:30,760 --> 01:20:32,800
Speaker 1: I end up completely buying it. But man, they do

1467
01:20:32,960 --> 01:20:34,639
Speaker 1: so much in such a short scene.

1468
01:20:34,800 --> 01:20:37,360
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, I think because it comes across that

1469
01:20:37,479 --> 01:20:40,519
Speaker 3: Heart was also just kind of weak willed, and he

1470
01:20:40,720 --> 01:20:46,559
Speaker 3: was allowing Ives' confidence in the cannibalism conspiracy to sort

1471
01:20:46,560 --> 01:20:51,280
Speaker 3: of allow him not to consult his own soul about

1472
01:20:51,280 --> 01:20:54,240
Speaker 3: whether this was right. He was just like going along

1473
01:20:54,280 --> 01:20:57,439
Speaker 3: with the justifications that i'ves gave. But now that somebody

1474
01:20:57,479 --> 01:21:00,559
Speaker 3: else from the outside is pressuring him kind of does

1475
01:21:00,720 --> 01:21:04,000
Speaker 3: break through the facade and the real heart comes out

1476
01:21:04,040 --> 01:21:08,160
Speaker 3: and his guilt and grief are unleashed and he can't

1477
01:21:08,160 --> 01:21:08,880
Speaker 3: deal with it.

1478
01:21:09,240 --> 01:21:14,000
Speaker 1: Right, And so now the line is clearly drawn. Ives

1479
01:21:14,360 --> 01:21:17,720
Speaker 1: sees this happen through the blood splattered window, and so

1480
01:21:17,840 --> 01:21:19,720
Speaker 1: now it's going to be it's gonna be a standoff

1481
01:21:19,760 --> 01:21:21,639
Speaker 1: between Bloyd and Ives, right.

1482
01:21:21,680 --> 01:21:25,639
Speaker 3: So the rest of the movie is basically this grueling fight,

1483
01:21:25,760 --> 01:21:29,759
Speaker 3: this duel between Boyd and Ives. They sword fight, they slash, stab,

1484
01:21:30,000 --> 01:21:32,840
Speaker 3: bash across the landscape of the fort, and then they

1485
01:21:33,000 --> 01:21:35,000
Speaker 3: end up at the end of this fight in a

1486
01:21:35,040 --> 01:21:37,320
Speaker 3: bear trap together, which is just perfect.

1487
01:21:37,600 --> 01:21:40,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's an enormous bear trap, Like I'm almost like

1488
01:21:40,160 --> 01:21:43,960
Speaker 1: Acme level of bear trap, but it feels earned and

1489
01:21:44,000 --> 01:21:46,960
Speaker 1: it's a surprise I think they do. We do see

1490
01:21:46,960 --> 01:21:49,520
Speaker 1: a bear trap earlier in the picture, so it is established.

1491
01:21:49,720 --> 01:21:51,679
Speaker 1: But when it goes off, yeah, just get.

1492
01:21:51,600 --> 01:21:56,040
Speaker 3: Them both, I've says says to to Guy Pearce, if

1493
01:21:56,080 --> 01:21:58,880
Speaker 3: you die first, I am definitely going to eat you.

1494
01:21:59,400 --> 01:22:02,880
Speaker 3: But if I first, what will you do? Good question,

1495
01:22:02,960 --> 01:22:06,559
Speaker 3: because we actually don't know at this point. Boyd's character

1496
01:22:06,600 --> 01:22:11,040
Speaker 3: has been portrayed as weak willed enough, and the story

1497
01:22:11,400 --> 01:22:14,000
Speaker 3: is bleak enough that you could believe it would end

1498
01:22:14,040 --> 01:22:18,200
Speaker 3: with him just embracing the cannibalism eating him and becoming

1499
01:22:18,240 --> 01:22:19,080
Speaker 3: win to go again.

1500
01:22:19,400 --> 01:22:22,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, because that thus far, that's how he has proceeded.

1501
01:22:22,960 --> 01:22:25,040
Speaker 1: Those are the choices which brought him to this moment.

1502
01:22:25,520 --> 01:22:29,479
Speaker 3: But Boyd does have a moral victory in the end

1503
01:22:29,600 --> 01:22:33,320
Speaker 3: by resisting the temptation. Ives does die first and Boyd

1504
01:22:33,360 --> 01:22:37,120
Speaker 3: does not chow down. He dies as well. But then

1505
01:22:37,200 --> 01:22:41,720
Speaker 3: General Slosson arrives with his retinue and they wander in.

1506
01:22:41,800 --> 01:22:45,000
Speaker 3: They're looking around and he finds a stew bubbling over

1507
01:22:45,040 --> 01:22:47,200
Speaker 3: the fire. I guess this is still the knock stew,

1508
01:22:47,600 --> 01:22:51,439
Speaker 3: still left over from the day before, and he decides

1509
01:22:51,479 --> 01:22:55,120
Speaker 3: to taste it, and he tastes it. He's like delicious, yummy, yummy.

1510
01:22:55,640 --> 01:22:58,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, So it seems like maybe the cycle will continue

1511
01:22:58,680 --> 01:23:01,479
Speaker 1: with General Slosson. And then we see Martha show up

1512
01:23:01,520 --> 01:23:04,200
Speaker 1: and Martha finds the bodies of Boyd and Ives and

1513
01:23:04,200 --> 01:23:07,680
Speaker 1: the bear trap and she sees what's happened and she

1514
01:23:07,960 --> 01:23:09,320
Speaker 1: runs off into the wilderness.

1515
01:23:10,040 --> 01:23:13,040
Speaker 3: Yeah. Thinking about this slows in question like if he

1516
01:23:13,160 --> 01:23:15,080
Speaker 3: eats the stew, does he become the wind to go?

1517
01:23:15,600 --> 01:23:18,320
Speaker 3: Within the logic of the movie, are you a wind

1518
01:23:18,320 --> 01:23:21,400
Speaker 3: to go? If you don't know that you're eating human

1519
01:23:22,040 --> 01:23:24,720
Speaker 3: I think that's a real question. Like it comes back

1520
01:23:24,720 --> 01:23:27,519
Speaker 3: to one of the questions that we raised earlier, like

1521
01:23:28,120 --> 01:23:33,040
Speaker 3: does the monstrosity arise from eating human flesh physically? Is

1522
01:23:33,080 --> 01:23:36,040
Speaker 3: it the physical processing of it with your digestive system

1523
01:23:36,080 --> 01:23:38,400
Speaker 3: even if you don't know what it is, Or is

1524
01:23:38,400 --> 01:23:42,320
Speaker 3: it the conscious awareness that you are eating human flesh?

1525
01:23:42,960 --> 01:23:46,880
Speaker 3: Or is it the moral acceptance of yourself as one

1526
01:23:46,960 --> 01:23:50,280
Speaker 3: who eats human flesh. So the distinction between those last

1527
01:23:50,280 --> 01:23:53,639
Speaker 3: two being like being aware that you're eating human flesh

1528
01:23:53,680 --> 01:23:57,080
Speaker 3: but not feeling okay about it, versus feeling like, all right,

1529
01:23:57,120 --> 01:24:00,320
Speaker 3: it's okay that I'm doing this, versus the final thing

1530
01:24:00,479 --> 01:24:03,640
Speaker 3: is killing, the act of killing someone in order to

1531
01:24:03,640 --> 01:24:07,200
Speaker 3: get more human flesh. They're all like different points on

1532
01:24:07,240 --> 01:24:10,680
Speaker 3: a continuum, and I guess you could ask at what

1533
01:24:10,880 --> 01:24:13,920
Speaker 3: point does one become the monster? And does each step

1534
01:24:14,040 --> 01:24:15,960
Speaker 3: kind of lead to the next step.

1535
01:24:16,560 --> 01:24:19,000
Speaker 1: That's a great question. Yeah, the movie leaves it ambiguous,

1536
01:24:19,040 --> 01:24:22,799
Speaker 1: Like we can I think reasonably think that, Okay, Slawson

1537
01:24:22,920 --> 01:24:25,760
Speaker 1: is going to eat this stuff. It tastes great. He's

1538
01:24:25,760 --> 01:24:28,519
Speaker 1: probably going to just really pig out on it and

1539
01:24:28,560 --> 01:24:30,680
Speaker 1: maybe have like a really great week. He's going to

1540
01:24:30,680 --> 01:24:32,280
Speaker 1: take up new hobbies, he's going to get a lot

1541
01:24:32,280 --> 01:24:34,400
Speaker 1: done at work. But will he be able to make

1542
01:24:34,400 --> 01:24:37,920
Speaker 1: the connection? And maybe he will, Maybe there's enough essentially

1543
01:24:37,920 --> 01:24:41,000
Speaker 1: forensic evidence at the camp that he'll realize what he

1544
01:24:41,200 --> 01:24:46,439
Speaker 1: ate and then start making increasingly horrific choices. But maybe not.

1545
01:24:46,880 --> 01:24:48,519
Speaker 1: But then also it does kind of tie into some

1546
01:24:48,560 --> 01:24:50,840
Speaker 1: of the questions raised, like what happens when you come

1547
01:24:50,880 --> 01:24:53,200
Speaker 1: along and you eat this stew and you don't know

1548
01:24:53,439 --> 01:24:56,920
Speaker 1: how the stew was made. It's just presented to you,

1549
01:24:57,080 --> 01:25:00,400
Speaker 1: and now what are you for having participated in this meal?

1550
01:25:01,280 --> 01:25:03,120
Speaker 3: All right? Well that's ravenous?

1551
01:25:03,600 --> 01:25:06,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think it really holds up. I think

1552
01:25:06,479 --> 01:25:10,160
Speaker 1: it's a great, great film, really stands out. Hard to

1553
01:25:10,160 --> 01:25:12,280
Speaker 1: think of another film from nineteen ninety nine that really

1554
01:25:13,880 --> 01:25:16,479
Speaker 1: that I keep coming back to. But this is the one.

1555
01:25:17,120 --> 01:25:19,800
Speaker 1: I mean, it's not it's not End of Days, it's

1556
01:25:19,800 --> 01:25:25,280
Speaker 1: not Blair Witch Product product, Blair Witch Project that should

1557
01:25:25,280 --> 01:25:26,879
Speaker 1: have been the sequel Blair Witch Product.

1558
01:25:28,160 --> 01:25:31,080
Speaker 3: My memory is actually the Blair Witch Project is pretty good.

1559
01:25:31,280 --> 01:25:34,320
Speaker 3: I think, Yeah, I think it might hold up pretty well.

1560
01:25:34,520 --> 01:25:37,280
Speaker 1: I think with that one, it's it really impressed me

1561
01:25:37,320 --> 01:25:39,519
Speaker 1: at the time, but then we saw so much found

1562
01:25:39,560 --> 01:25:43,360
Speaker 1: footage material that I've just been so resistant to going

1563
01:25:43,400 --> 01:25:45,960
Speaker 1: back and watching anything from that year. I don't know.

1564
01:25:46,000 --> 01:25:47,639
Speaker 1: I look at a list of other nineteen ninety nine

1565
01:25:47,680 --> 01:25:50,040
Speaker 1: films that was the year we had audition. I'm in

1566
01:25:50,040 --> 01:25:52,719
Speaker 1: no hurry to rewatch that, but that was pretty strong

1567
01:25:52,760 --> 01:25:53,800
Speaker 1: as well, with.

1568
01:25:53,960 --> 01:25:57,000
Speaker 3: That remake of The Haunting with Liam Neeson and Catherine

1569
01:25:57,040 --> 01:25:58,439
Speaker 3: Zeta Jones. How about that.

1570
01:26:00,520 --> 01:26:03,840
Speaker 1: That's not on the list from the rewatch anytime soon?

1571
01:26:04,600 --> 01:26:06,400
Speaker 3: All right? Does that do it for today?

1572
01:26:06,640 --> 01:26:08,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're going to go ahead and close it up here,

1573
01:26:08,560 --> 01:26:10,519
Speaker 1: but we'd love to hear from everyone out there. What

1574
01:26:10,560 --> 01:26:13,960
Speaker 1: are your thoughts on Ravenous or other cannibal films or

1575
01:26:14,000 --> 01:26:16,360
Speaker 1: other films from nineteen ninety nine. It's all fair game,

1576
01:26:16,439 --> 01:26:18,559
Speaker 1: right in. Let us know we would love to hear

1577
01:26:18,600 --> 01:26:21,559
Speaker 1: from you. You can get this show wherever you get

1578
01:26:21,600 --> 01:26:23,840
Speaker 1: your podcasts. Get it either in the Stuff to Blow

1579
01:26:23,840 --> 01:26:26,320
Speaker 1: your Mind podcast feed where it publishes every Friday, or

1580
01:26:26,360 --> 01:26:28,840
Speaker 1: on its own in its own standalone playlist, which you

1581
01:26:28,880 --> 01:26:31,040
Speaker 1: can currently get wherever you get your podcasts, as well,

1582
01:26:31,200 --> 01:26:33,680
Speaker 1: wherever you get Weird House Cinema rate and review. That

1583
01:26:33,720 --> 01:26:37,240
Speaker 1: really helps us out. If you were on letterbox dot com,

1584
01:26:37,320 --> 01:26:39,439
Speaker 1: look us up. Our username there is weird House and

1585
01:26:39,479 --> 01:26:41,040
Speaker 1: we have a big old list of all the movies

1586
01:26:41,080 --> 01:26:43,680
Speaker 1: we've watched over the years, and sometimes we get a

1587
01:26:43,680 --> 01:26:44,800
Speaker 1: peek ahead at what's next.

1588
01:26:45,080 --> 01:26:48,640
Speaker 3: Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer Jjposway.

1589
01:26:49,000 --> 01:26:50,559
Speaker 3: If you would like to get in touch with us

1590
01:26:50,600 --> 01:26:53,000
Speaker 3: with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest

1591
01:26:53,000 --> 01:26:55,040
Speaker 3: a topic for the future, or just to say hello,

1592
01:26:55,439 --> 01:26:57,960
Speaker 3: you can email us at contact at stuff to Blow

1593
01:26:58,000 --> 01:27:05,520
Speaker 3: your Mind dot com.

1594
01:27:05,720 --> 01:27:08,680
Speaker 2: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For

1595
01:27:08,760 --> 01:27:12,600
Speaker 2: more podcasts from my iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1596
01:27:12,680 --> 01:27:14,479
Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.