1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:03,040 Speaker 1: The Michael Berry Show. What a week It's been, Right, 2 00:00:03,720 --> 00:00:08,000 Speaker 1: what a week? Welcome to the Weekend Podcast. Honored you 3 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:10,440 Speaker 1: would choose to spend some of your time, whether it's 4 00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:12,840 Speaker 1: the weekend or well endo the week when you give 5 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:16,360 Speaker 1: this a listen. We had planned to play clips of 6 00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:22,119 Speaker 1: this audio on Thursday, but with the assassination of Charlie Kirk, 7 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:28,720 Speaker 1: we decided to make it a bonus podcast. So here 8 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:33,360 Speaker 1: we are. Catherine Herridge, who was a long time, very 9 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:41,240 Speaker 1: well respected reporter with the major networks on issues of 10 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:46,599 Speaker 1: national intelligence, sat down with the former director of the 11 00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:53,400 Speaker 1: National Counterintelligence and Security Center, Bill Avanina to discuss new 12 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:58,840 Speaker 1: information on the nine to eleven terrorist attack, and with 13 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:02,080 Speaker 1: nine to eleven just a couple of days ago, it 14 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 1: seemed perfect to have this conversation. Now, newly classified reports 15 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 1: from the FBI and CIA reveal that two Saudi government 16 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 1: employees quote may have served as an advance team end 17 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:22,959 Speaker 1: quote for the nine to eleven hijackers. Two Saudi government 18 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:30,240 Speaker 1: employees h under whose direction starts to sound less like 19 00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 1: a rogue group of terrorists and an orchestrated, organized effort which, 20 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 1: by the way, people have been ridiculed and marginalized over 21 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 1: supposed conspiracy theories, suggesting that this was far too sophisticated 22 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:57,520 Speaker 1: for nineteen rag tag dudes. These new records challenge the 23 00:01:57,640 --> 00:02:02,400 Speaker 1: nine to eleven narrative, and they shift the timeline back 24 00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:08,440 Speaker 1: to December of ninety eight. It's almost three years before 25 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 1: al Qaeda terrorists killed nearly three thousand Americans on September eleventh, 26 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:16,400 Speaker 1: two thousand and one. Now this is a reminder that 27 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 1: just because someone is reporting something, and just because the 28 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 1: media outlet that is reporting it is well respected typically, 29 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:26,960 Speaker 1: and just because the guest who is saying it might 30 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 1: seem to be or the reports that are being called 31 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:35,359 Speaker 1: on might seem to be beyond reproach. I don't necessarily 32 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 1: endorse everything that we air on this program. I believe 33 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:48,600 Speaker 1: that you deserve transparency, and as new information becomes available, 34 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 1: we provide it. Is it a fact beyond doubt? No, 35 00:02:54,360 --> 00:03:00,280 Speaker 1: it's not. It's a position, it's a data point. Sometimes 36 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:04,360 Speaker 1: get frustrated and they basically add, tell me how to think, Michael, 37 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:06,880 Speaker 1: That's not what I do. I will tell you that 38 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:12,240 Speaker 1: you should think for yourself. I have biases, you might 39 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:14,800 Speaker 1: not share those biases. I have prejudices you might not 40 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:18,920 Speaker 1: share those prejudices. I might be willing to assess this 41 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 1: risk in this way and accept this amount of risk. 42 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 1: I smoke cigars and drink bourbon. You may say, I'm 43 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 1: not willing to do that, So why would you have 44 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:28,480 Speaker 1: me tell you what to do if you're not willing 45 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:33,200 Speaker 1: to take that risk? All that by way of saying, look, 46 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 1: we're going to put things on the air that doesn't 47 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 1: make them true, but we want you to think because 48 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 1: they may turn out to be true, and we're not 49 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 1: going to stifle information. 50 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:49,400 Speaker 2: As someone who investigated nine to eleven, do these records 51 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:50,480 Speaker 2: move the timeline? 52 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 3: They do? I think that really moves the timeline back 53 00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 3: significantly two to three years to win. The support network 54 00:03:57,760 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 3: actually got on the ground here in the United States. 55 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 4: Bill Evanina is the former director of the National counter 56 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 4: Intelligence and Security Center. He spent twenty four years at 57 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:10,640 Speaker 4: the FBI and investigated nine to eleven. 58 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:14,960 Speaker 2: The FBI says they may have served as an advanced 59 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:16,840 Speaker 2: team for the nine eleven hijackers. 60 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:19,480 Speaker 3: I think based upon these documents and the videos, I 61 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 3: think it's pretty clear that they were here for that 62 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:25,640 Speaker 3: particular reason. The question would be at whose behestd was 63 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:28,240 Speaker 3: it from the Saudi government or were they working for 64 00:04:28,279 --> 00:04:31,280 Speaker 3: al Qaeda directly just happened to be Saudi employees. 65 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:34,839 Speaker 4: Filmed two years before the nine to eleven terrorist attacks, 66 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 4: The video shows these Saudi government employees mutaib El Sudiri 67 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:42,159 Speaker 4: behind the wheel, the other adult, Muhammad al Sadan, hiding 68 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 4: behind a roadmap. Along with the third Saudi. They filmed Washington, 69 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 4: d C landmarks later identified by al Qaeda terrorists as 70 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:51,080 Speaker 4: potential nine to eleven targets. 71 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 2: The classified record states the FBI assesses that the two 72 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:59,920 Speaker 2: Saudis may still maintain ties to al Qaeda. Sounds like 73 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:03,839 Speaker 2: the two Saudis had long standing ties to al Qaida. 74 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:06,920 Speaker 3: Sounds very clear to me that they still possess, which 75 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:08,479 Speaker 3: means they once did possess. 76 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:13,560 Speaker 4: Exclusive reporting and declassified intelligence and law enforcement records reveal 77 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:17,240 Speaker 4: the Saudi government employees Saddan and Sudiri may have served 78 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:19,719 Speaker 4: as an advanced team to vent those who would later 79 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:24,159 Speaker 4: assist hijackers in southern California. The explosive lead was buried 80 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:27,680 Speaker 4: in thousands of pages of once secret government records. 81 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:31,280 Speaker 2: We asked you to review these declassified documents. Are they 82 00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:32,599 Speaker 2: significant documents? 83 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:35,479 Speaker 3: I think they are. I think they really pre date 84 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 3: what we've known about nine to eleven and the support 85 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:40,720 Speaker 3: networks domestically here in the US for the hijackers. 86 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:44,640 Speaker 2: Based on these new records and some of the video evidence, 87 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:49,480 Speaker 2: is there enough here to draw a direct connection between 88 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:51,160 Speaker 2: nine to eleven and the Saudi government? 89 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:54,120 Speaker 3: I think we're closer. I think it's clear that we 90 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:56,600 Speaker 3: now have individuals who came here Pride nine to eleven 91 00:05:56,760 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 3: who were official Saudi employees, Now where they official slow 92 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 3: SOUD employees working on behalf of this plot, or they 93 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:06,680 Speaker 3: were also of Saudi employees and also serving the needs 94 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:07,279 Speaker 3: of al Qaeda. 95 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:11,800 Speaker 2: Are the two Saudis overlooked key players in the nine 96 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:12,560 Speaker 2: to eleven plot? 97 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:14,720 Speaker 3: I think that's a good question. I think these two 98 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 3: individuals who are now named provide new investigative leads for 99 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:21,640 Speaker 3: the FBI and our intelligence services to go back and 100 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:24,800 Speaker 3: put some more pieces together in this really complicated puzzle. 101 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 4: It took nearly two decades and pressure from the nine 102 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:30,800 Speaker 4: to eleven families who were suing Saudi Arabia over the 103 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 4: terrorist attacks, for these highly secretive government records to be declassified. 104 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:39,279 Speaker 4: Investigators for the families found evidence Saddan and Sudiri arrived 105 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:43,360 Speaker 4: in southern California in December nineteen ninety eight, thirteen months 106 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 4: before the first two hijackers also landed in Los Angeles, 107 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:53,120 Speaker 4: later receiving financial assistance, obtaining driver's licenses, living quarters, spiritual guidance, 108 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:54,719 Speaker 4: and locating flight schools. 109 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 2: Based on the declassified records, what did the alleged Saudi 110 00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:00,279 Speaker 2: Advanced Team do? 111 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:04,280 Speaker 3: I think these records clearly depict not only the advanced 112 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:06,919 Speaker 3: team coming here in United States, but setting up shop, 113 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:10,120 Speaker 3: coordinating with emms on the West Coast and on the 114 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:13,280 Speaker 3: East Coast, facilitating the care and feeding and housing of 115 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 3: the hijackers. 116 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 2: The hijackers, many of them did not speak English, had 117 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:21,120 Speaker 2: never been to the United States before. Could they have 118 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 2: lived under the radar without this support network? 119 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 3: I highly doubt it. If you were going to initiate 120 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:30,680 Speaker 3: this type of sophisticated plot, you don't even want to 121 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:34,560 Speaker 3: take that chance. So they was critically needed to have 122 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:35,680 Speaker 3: a support network here. 123 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:40,160 Speaker 4: The intelligence reports include phone and financial analysis, interviews, and 124 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:43,720 Speaker 4: travel patterns, concluding so Don and Sudari lived at the 125 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 4: same address in San Diego where the hijackers would later stay. 126 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:51,240 Speaker 4: Other common links include Fahad Althu Mar, a well known 127 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:54,560 Speaker 4: figure at the King five Mosque in Los Angeles, reputed 128 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 4: to be an Islamic fundamentalist American cleric on war Alaalaki. 129 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 4: He became a major al Qaeda leader after nine to 130 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:05,080 Speaker 4: eleven and was killed in a CIA drone strike. As 131 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:07,920 Speaker 4: well as this Saudi. The FBI said there's a fifty 132 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:11,320 Speaker 4: to fifty chance he had advance knowledge of nine to eleven. 133 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:13,480 Speaker 2: Omar al Bayoumi, what was his role? 134 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 3: I think he was clearly the fixer of the facilitator, 135 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:19,400 Speaker 3: of the leader of this potential surveillance cell. And I 136 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 3: think that two Saudis came here to vet him. 137 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:26,080 Speaker 4: After helping Saddan and Sudari in southern California, Bayoumi sent 138 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 4: letters to Saudi government officials. Bayomi said of the men, 139 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:33,119 Speaker 4: there is complete cooperation and advance coordination. 140 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 2: What does that tell you? 141 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 3: I think they are exactly what they say they are. 142 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:39,360 Speaker 3: I think they send those messages back to the leaders 143 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:42,520 Speaker 3: who need to know that the facilitation of the support 144 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 3: network in California is strong and it's workable and there's coordination. 145 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:49,840 Speaker 3: Are the key people that need to make this work. 146 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 4: Byumi was arrested about ten days after nine to eleven 147 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:56,600 Speaker 4: in Birmingham, England. His records and videos were seized, including 148 00:08:56,640 --> 00:09:00,120 Speaker 4: a February two thousand welcome party for two hijackers in 149 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:03,600 Speaker 4: San Diego. Some of the most compelling evidence that challenges 150 00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:06,760 Speaker 4: the official nine to eleven narrative was shared by British 151 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:09,600 Speaker 4: authorities with the nine to eleven families, not by the 152 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:10,880 Speaker 4: US government. 153 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 3: Or any hijackers. 154 00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:14,720 Speaker 2: In this video, there are two hijackers appear in this video. 155 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:18,680 Speaker 4: One hijacker can be seen in the kitchen. Bayoumi instructs 156 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:21,400 Speaker 4: the videographer not to film one side of the room. 157 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:25,839 Speaker 4: This caught Evanina's attention. You see, don't yeah, don't film here, 158 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:27,840 Speaker 4: and he's motioning to the side of the room. 159 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:30,960 Speaker 2: So as an investigator, what does that tell you? 160 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:34,880 Speaker 3: He wants these people saying in the video for sure 161 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:37,040 Speaker 3: and absolutely nobody on that side of the video. 162 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:41,200 Speaker 4: Later, the videographer slips out and captures the other side 163 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:41,680 Speaker 4: of the room. 164 00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:46,120 Speaker 2: So they're having the meal, and then the videographer pulls 165 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:48,640 Speaker 2: up at one point and gets the other side of the. 166 00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:49,480 Speaker 4: Room by accident. 167 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:53,600 Speaker 3: Okay, oh, look at that right. 168 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:57,160 Speaker 4: This man is identified in court records as a Saudi 169 00:09:57,200 --> 00:10:02,440 Speaker 4: government religious official Mohammad al Katani was the significance very significant. 170 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:05,520 Speaker 3: It's another direct tie to an actual employee of the 171 00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:09,199 Speaker 3: Saudi government in the welcoming party for two soon to 172 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 3: be hijackers. That's a big deal. 173 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:14,079 Speaker 2: That's information that would have been relevant to the nine 174 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:14,840 Speaker 2: to eleven Commission. 175 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:18,200 Speaker 3: These videos were obtained in the fall of two thousand 176 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:21,079 Speaker 3: and one. Those videos should have been provided to the 177 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:22,120 Speaker 3: nine to eleven Commission. 178 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:25,240 Speaker 4: In April two thousand and one, five months before the 179 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:28,560 Speaker 4: attacks that killed nearly three thousand Americans in New York 180 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 4: City at the Pentagon and in Shanksville, Pennsylvania, two hijackers 181 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:35,920 Speaker 4: traveled from Arizona to Virginia. Investigators for the nine to 182 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 4: eleven Families developed this map and alleged the hijackers passed 183 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:43,160 Speaker 4: through Oklahoma and Missouri, where the same two Saudi government 184 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 4: employees were assigned. In Missouri, Suderi had lived with a 185 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:51,080 Speaker 4: known key communications specialist for al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden. 186 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:54,240 Speaker 3: I believe those two locations in Oklahoma and Missouri were 187 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:57,480 Speaker 3: checking spots where they had to check in with trusted 188 00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:00,600 Speaker 3: people who helped facilitate their arrival to make sure they're 189 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:02,600 Speaker 3: on the right path and going in the right direction 190 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:04,840 Speaker 3: if they needed any more assistance on the way. 191 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 4: And there is another nine to eleven connection. These Saundi 192 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:13,439 Speaker 4: government employees videotaped Washington, DC landmarks in June nineteen ninety nine. 193 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 2: Does that look like a tourist video? 194 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:17,640 Speaker 3: Clearing out of tourist video. It was very specific with 195 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:21,320 Speaker 3: intent of not only the visualization on multiple sides of 196 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:23,400 Speaker 3: the building, but also the security detail. 197 00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:26,880 Speaker 4: About the same time, Osama bin Laden developed an initial 198 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:29,960 Speaker 4: list of targets for the plot, including the White House 199 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:33,920 Speaker 4: and US Capital, the same sites filmed by the Saudis. 200 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 2: As a trained investigator, what significance to place on the video? 201 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:41,280 Speaker 3: I think the video really adds value to the fact 202 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:46,439 Speaker 3: that there was thought and mindset of potential targets years 203 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:49,160 Speaker 3: ahead of the actual event in nine to eleven. I 204 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:50,960 Speaker 3: think that really elongates the timeframe. 205 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 2: We've got new leadership now here in Washington. What can 206 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:57,480 Speaker 2: the new director of the FBI do. 207 00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:00,960 Speaker 3: I think this is an opportunity for the FBI, the CIA, 208 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:04,600 Speaker 3: and the administration for that matter, to go and be 209 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:08,960 Speaker 3: the most stallworth supporters and element families and then deal 210 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:12,040 Speaker 3: directly with the Saudi government for access to these individuals, 211 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:14,959 Speaker 3: and I think this is a once in a lifetime opportunity. 212 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 3: It might not come again, but I think all the 213 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:20,360 Speaker 3: stars have aligned to be able to put that request 214 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 3: into the Saudi government. 215 00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:25,520 Speaker 1: If you like the Michael Berry Show and Podcast, please 216 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:29,880 Speaker 1: tell one friend, and if you're so inclined, write a 217 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:34,959 Speaker 1: nice review of our podcast. 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