1 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:05,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of 2 00:00:05,320 --> 00:00:10,280 Speaker 1: My Heart Radio. Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow 3 00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:14,159 Speaker 1: your Mind. Listener mail. My name is Robert Lamb and 4 00:00:14,280 --> 00:00:16,840 Speaker 1: I'm Joe McCormick, and it's Monday. So we're bringing you 5 00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:19,440 Speaker 1: some messages that have come into the show mailbox over 6 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:22,160 Speaker 1: the past few weeks. Let's see, we are still getting 7 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:25,440 Speaker 1: messages about the vegetable lamb of Tartary. People never give 8 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 1: up on that one. Lets people love the vegetable lamb. 9 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 1: People love it. They're constantly coming up to us saying, 10 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 1: why aren't we getting more vegetable lamb? Uh? Rob? Do 11 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:37,560 Speaker 1: you want to do? This? One? From me? In or sex? 12 00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:47,240 Speaker 1: Dear Robert and Joe, I'm about six weeks behind on episode, 13 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 1: so apologies if someone already wrote in about this, but 14 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:52,159 Speaker 1: I was listening to your episode on the Lamb of 15 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 1: Tartary and it was reminded of a group of plants 16 00:00:55,200 --> 00:01:00,080 Speaker 1: that does grow itself an animal. The ophrisk genus of 17 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:03,480 Speaker 1: orchids are known as b orchids, and each one grows 18 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:06,760 Speaker 1: flowers that are little replicas of the female be or 19 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:10,200 Speaker 1: other pollinator. The flowers not only look and feel like 20 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 1: the female, but also release the sex hormone of fertile females. 21 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:17,559 Speaker 1: This fac similar lures in males to try to mate 22 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 1: with the flower, thereby transferring pollen and fertilizing the orchid. 23 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 1: Each species of this orchid is adapted to lure in 24 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:30,479 Speaker 1: males of only one particular pollinator species, though rarely individuals 25 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:34,320 Speaker 1: of a closely related species will be duped as well. Amusingly, 26 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:37,920 Speaker 1: males do eventually learn to distinguish between the flowers and 27 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 1: true females of their species, so it tends to be 28 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 1: the younger, inexperienced males that are tricked. It actually makes 29 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 1: me feel a little bad for it. This is obviously 30 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 1: a far cry from the fully functioning mammal on a 31 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 1: tether of the lamb of chardary, but is nonetheless a 32 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:58,279 Speaker 1: fascinating example of very specific evolutionary pressures causing a plant 33 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 1: to grow a kind of animal. It's stem as always, 34 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:03,880 Speaker 1: thanks for your wonderful show, and please keep up the 35 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:06,320 Speaker 1: good work. I well, that is ah, that is a 36 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:09,960 Speaker 1: great example. Ian and actually, um, I while we were 37 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:13,520 Speaker 1: recording those episodes, or maybe shortly before, I went to 38 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:16,800 Speaker 1: the Atlanta Botanical Garden and I was walking around like 39 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:21,079 Speaker 1: looking particularly at ferns, thinking I might see some sort 40 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 1: of wooly mass that resembles a sheep, but also looking 41 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:27,600 Speaker 1: at a lot of orchids, and yeah, there's so many 42 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:32,120 Speaker 1: fabulous um forms in the orchids. Uh some that at 43 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 1: least to the human imagination may look like like little 44 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 1: creatures or a little little humanoids little angels at times. 45 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 1: And yeah, this is a great example of of a 46 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:48,080 Speaker 1: a targeted uh mimicry that is employed by the flower. 47 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:50,240 Speaker 1: Rob do you know about the orchid that looks kind 48 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 1: of like a sinister clown? I don't know this one. 49 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 1: It looks kind of like like the violator from Spawn 50 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 1: or something, So look up uh Ophrius ariadne or the 51 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 1: species name is A r I A d in a E. Oh. Yeah, 52 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:11,080 Speaker 1: this is this is interesting looking. I don't know. I 53 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:13,120 Speaker 1: don't get as much of a spawn feel from this 54 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:16,800 Speaker 1: as more it looks like some sort of uh A 55 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:21,480 Speaker 1: fluffy winged Pokemon type of creature. Okay, but I like it. 56 00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 1: I mean, I guess it depends exactly how the pattern 57 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 1: works out and if you squint when you're looking at 58 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 1: it and stuff. But I can sometimes see like a 59 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 1: like a like a mean looking kind of rotund clown 60 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 1: that's telling me I'm going to go to hill. I 61 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 1: don't know. I see like a slightly burly little fella 62 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:43,520 Speaker 1: with very fuzzy arms or wings. H it almost looks 63 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:46,240 Speaker 1: like I can see two eyes for sure, and almost 64 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 1: kind of like a beak going on there. It's kind 65 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 1: of making a Muppet face like kind of you know 66 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:54,320 Speaker 1: when when Kermit the Frog is a little perturbed like that, 67 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:56,720 Speaker 1: kind of like scrunched in face. Oh yeah, I know 68 00:03:56,760 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 1: what you're talking about, the kind of when the when 69 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 1: the puppet bind. Yeah, oh one o. The But the 70 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:08,640 Speaker 1: clown orchid is in the same genus, the Ophrius genus, Okay, yeah, yeah, 71 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:10,960 Speaker 1: Well it's a it's a remarkable looking specimen. I don't 72 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 1: know that I've seen one in person, though, to be clear, 73 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 1: I don't think it's officially called the clown orchid. That's 74 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:17,800 Speaker 1: just what it looked like to me. All Right, Well, 75 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 1: we've we've got the last of the vegetable Lamb listener 76 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:25,040 Speaker 1: mail out of the way. What's next on the on 77 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:29,120 Speaker 1: the schedule? Here's so so many listeners got in touch 78 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 1: about cauldrons, uh, specifically about our segment on the ceramic 79 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 1: cooking cauldrons of the Joeman culture and prehistoric Japan. Now 80 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:44,000 Speaker 1: you remember these these were ceramic pots that were used 81 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 1: for cooking by these hunter gatherers who lived in Japan. 82 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 1: Uh and these pots had intriguing features. For example, they 83 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:55,800 Speaker 1: had decorative textures that were made by pressing ropes into 84 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 1: the wet clay um, so you see kind of a 85 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:01,600 Speaker 1: fibery texture along the the outside of the finished pots. 86 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 1: But also a mysterious fact that we discussed was that 87 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:11,600 Speaker 1: the earliest pots in this pottery school appear to be 88 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:14,880 Speaker 1: rounded on the bottom rather than flat. So these were 89 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:18,159 Speaker 1: cooking vessels that would not stand up by themselves on 90 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:27,120 Speaker 1: a flat surface. So onto the messages addressing that this 91 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 1: first one comes from Cat, and she says, just listen 92 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 1: to episode one of Cauldrons, and I have some clues 93 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 1: to throw your way regarding questions you posited in the episode. First, 94 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:40,840 Speaker 1: why were the earliest cauldrons rounded rather than flat bottomed? 95 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:44,919 Speaker 1: Speaking as a crafter, I answer for strength. Angles in 96 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:49,240 Speaker 1: pottery are weak points and frequent points of failure. Speaking 97 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 1: as a cook, I answer for evenness of heating throughout 98 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:55,760 Speaker 1: the same reason why Chinese and Japanese cooking still makes 99 00:05:55,839 --> 00:05:57,880 Speaker 1: use of the walk, you can get a lot more 100 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:01,360 Speaker 1: control of temperature in a rounded vest. All speaking as 101 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:04,360 Speaker 1: someone who has to wash her own dishes for ease 102 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 1: of maintenance, food scraps don't have corners to cling in 103 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:11,200 Speaker 1: after the cooking is done, and so the pot can 104 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:14,920 Speaker 1: last longer before the accumulated residue of previous meals begins 105 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 1: to be evident in the background flavor. And speaking as 106 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 1: someone who backpacks portability and travel security, you can stick 107 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:27,160 Speaker 1: a rounded pot upside down on a backpacks protrusion and 108 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 1: be reliably sure it will stay there without needing to 109 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:32,920 Speaker 1: be tied down or risking the weak point of some 110 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:36,040 Speaker 1: kind of handle. That last point is really interesting, Cat, 111 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:39,279 Speaker 1: because as we talked about it, you might have expected 112 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:42,279 Speaker 1: that pottery was invented by people who had already settled 113 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 1: down into a stable like uh fixed existence in geography 114 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 1: and started practicing agriculture. But no, the evidence is that 115 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 1: the Joman culture was making pottery for cooking in while 116 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:59,120 Speaker 1: they were still hunter gatherers. Cat continues, Also, I would 117 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:01,560 Speaker 1: like to know if the upper rims of these really 118 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:04,839 Speaker 1: ancient pots have been found or not, because it could 119 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:08,280 Speaker 1: well be that they were hung or suspended over fires, 120 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:11,520 Speaker 1: as later metal cauldrons came to be, in which case 121 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:15,280 Speaker 1: the rounded bottom definitely allows for even heating throughout the contents, 122 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:18,240 Speaker 1: as opposed to the scorching that a flat bottom pan 123 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 1: gives when hung over fire. This is me speaking as 124 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:24,960 Speaker 1: a camp cook, by the way. Next, I want to 125 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 1: deposit a scenario. A tribe of gatherers makes their seasonal 126 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:31,680 Speaker 1: camp on a river bed in a fertile valley. In 127 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:34,000 Speaker 1: the months since they were last there, the river has 128 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 1: flooded somewhat, and they discover that the hollow pit where 129 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:40,000 Speaker 1: they had made the communal fire they kept going for 130 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 1: months to ago last year was sort of washed out 131 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:46,680 Speaker 1: by the current. But here's the thing. The clay bottom 132 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:49,680 Speaker 1: of the pit where the coals had sat that earth 133 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 1: is still solid, hollowed out on one side, but like 134 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 1: a rounded rock when someone knocks on it with their knuckles. 135 00:07:56,880 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 1: Now imagine that this happens every year when they come back, 136 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 1: a new fire pit in the bottom land clay, a 137 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 1: new hollowed out rock where no such rock existed before. 138 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:09,600 Speaker 1: Maybe eventually a flood that's a little tamer than the 139 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:12,800 Speaker 1: others and only washes out half of the hard baked clay, 140 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:16,560 Speaker 1: and suddenly some woman for it's reliably the women spending 141 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 1: all of their days that these fires after all, works 142 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:21,680 Speaker 1: out what happened and maybe how to do it on 143 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 1: purpose too. In short, my theory is that the first 144 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:28,680 Speaker 1: pottery came about, as most all human innovations did, just 145 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:31,680 Speaker 1: to see if a natural effect could be done deliberately 146 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:34,520 Speaker 1: the uses to which they would put it. I figured 147 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:37,720 Speaker 1: that happened later once the new hardened hollow rock that 148 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 1: the first lady crafted came out of the fire intact. Anyway, 149 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:44,520 Speaker 1: thanks for your time, for your fascinating research, and for 150 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:48,520 Speaker 1: your podcast. Cat, very good points. Cat, Yeah, yeah, I 151 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:51,720 Speaker 1: love all the personal experience with with camp cooking and 152 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 1: stuff as well. I can't remember did we talk about 153 00:08:54,280 --> 00:08:56,560 Speaker 1: the idea that these pots may have been suspended over 154 00:08:56,640 --> 00:09:00,520 Speaker 1: fires by by ropes or fibers or leather straps or 155 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 1: I don't. I don't know if we got into that 156 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 1: as much, but certainly when you when you look back 157 00:09:04,679 --> 00:09:08,920 Speaker 1: at the early history of this style of cooking, yeah, 158 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:11,840 Speaker 1: you're you're dealing with like even even if even in 159 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:16,480 Speaker 1: the period before h pottery, Yeah, you're talking about either 160 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:20,239 Speaker 1: cooking in the ground or cooking suspended above the fire, etcetera. 161 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:23,800 Speaker 1: So very much something to take into account. Yeah, that 162 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:25,719 Speaker 1: that does seem like a possibility to me, and that 163 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:28,160 Speaker 1: that would explain why it could be rounded on the bottom, 164 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:30,280 Speaker 1: or it could be that it sat in some kind 165 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:38,840 Speaker 1: of holder. All right, This next to when it comes 166 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:41,720 Speaker 1: to us from Sean. Sean writes, Hi, Joe and Rob 167 00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 1: just finished The Cauldron Part one episode and had three thoughts. 168 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:49,080 Speaker 1: Number One, you mused about the transition from open flame 169 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:52,440 Speaker 1: cooking to wet cooking. Perhaps there was a noticeable decrease 170 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 1: in sickness and death among those whose liquid was solely 171 00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 1: or mostly from soup or broth, since boiling would kill 172 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:02,600 Speaker 1: microbes in the water, So perhaps it was adopted partially 173 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:05,720 Speaker 1: because it seemed to be safer. That's an interesting idea, 174 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 1: and so my brain immediately went to, like, well, wait 175 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:12,920 Speaker 1: a minute, if you're eating soup, does that necessarily mean 176 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:15,160 Speaker 1: you need to drink less water? But then I guess 177 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:18,680 Speaker 1: I'm probably thinking about like a soup that is salty 178 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:22,640 Speaker 1: to a modern canned soup extent. If if you're eating 179 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:25,679 Speaker 1: like suit you know, largely liquid based food, soups and 180 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:29,359 Speaker 1: broths that are not heavily salted. Yeah, that's probably replacing 181 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:32,960 Speaker 1: a huge amount of the need for water you would 182 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:35,880 Speaker 1: need to drink otherwise. So yeah, you could be essentially 183 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:40,600 Speaker 1: turning your water needs into into mostly or entirely cooked water, 184 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 1: which would lower the risk of water boarn illness. Yeah. Plus, 185 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 1: I think we touched on like you go into the 186 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:48,960 Speaker 1: history of tea, for example, and you know, you go 187 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:52,400 Speaker 1: back far enough and the line, the dividing line between 188 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:56,840 Speaker 1: drink and soup and broth becomes a little less clear. Alright, 189 00:10:56,840 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 1: Seawan's point number two. Have you heard of the iron 190 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:02,599 Speaker 1: and fish? You can read about it on Wikipedia, But 191 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:08,000 Speaker 1: essentially impoverished Cambodian women are anemic. Studies were conducted that 192 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:12,160 Speaker 1: found adding an iron ingot to the soup increased iron, 193 00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:15,120 Speaker 1: but it wasn't until the fish shape, supposed to be 194 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 1: lucky was widely adopted. Not exactly rock cooking, but that's 195 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:21,679 Speaker 1: where my thoughts went. So I guess the the idea 196 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:24,559 Speaker 1: here is a piece of iron shaped like a fish 197 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 1: that goes into your pot. Yeah, I looked this up. 198 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:29,240 Speaker 1: So this would be a situation where when you're making 199 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:32,280 Speaker 1: a soup, you put the iron fish into the pot 200 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 1: and it leaches iron into the food, increasing your iron intake. 201 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:38,679 Speaker 1: And I haven't looked into this deeply, but just at 202 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:43,200 Speaker 1: a glance, it looked like this was useful in helping 203 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:46,600 Speaker 1: people whose anemia was related to dietary iron deficiency, but 204 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:49,400 Speaker 1: it was not useful in helping people who's anemia had 205 00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:51,600 Speaker 1: other causes. It would be interesting to see if there 206 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:56,319 Speaker 1: any studies out there about making like non food items 207 00:11:56,440 --> 00:12:00,400 Speaker 1: or sort of marginally food items animal shaped and effect 208 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:02,840 Speaker 1: that has on our psychology. Like I think about the 209 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:06,839 Speaker 1: Swedish fish, for example, the red candy that has shaped 210 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:10,000 Speaker 1: like a fish does not contain fish. Uh if memory service, 211 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 1: it's actually vegan um, But there's something about it being 212 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 1: shaped like the fish makes it more okay. If it 213 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 1: were just shaped like a coin, I would be less 214 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:22,439 Speaker 1: inclined to eat it somehow, and I can't explain why. 215 00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:25,360 Speaker 1: That is. You are right, I thought, surely the Swedish 216 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 1: fish contains gelatin, which would not be vegan, but I 217 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:31,280 Speaker 1: looked it up. That is, you are right, it is vegan. Yes, 218 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:34,960 Speaker 1: I've known vegans to swear by it. I'll still eat 219 00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:39,560 Speaker 1: the occasional Swedish fish, all right. And then point number 220 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:43,480 Speaker 1: three from Sean. Lastly, Disney's The Black Cauldron does not 221 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 1: do justice to the books, but the art is wonderful 222 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:49,680 Speaker 1: and the backstory is amazing. You can find lots on YouTube. 223 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:52,959 Speaker 1: I went down the rabbit hole over a week or so. Anyway, 224 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:57,439 Speaker 1: thanks for the fascinating topics and wide ranging discussions. Yeah, 225 00:12:57,520 --> 00:13:00,240 Speaker 1: I've never actually watched The Black Cauldron all the way through, 226 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:02,640 Speaker 1: and I can't get the boy interested in it, and 227 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:05,800 Speaker 1: I haven't pressed him hard on it because I've always 228 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:08,520 Speaker 1: heard this that it's kind of a lackluster Disney film, 229 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 1: even though it does have some cauldron imagery in it, 230 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:14,600 Speaker 1: and you have that with the Horned King that plays 231 00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:16,679 Speaker 1: an important role in it, that is a very cool 232 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:28,360 Speaker 1: looking villain. Yeah, I've never seen it either. Okay, Ethan says, hello, 233 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:31,880 Speaker 1: Robin Joe. I'm Ethan from Indiana. Longtime fan of the 234 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:34,560 Speaker 1: show and listen to it almost every day. I was 235 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:37,560 Speaker 1: listening to this this week's episode on the Cauldron and 236 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:41,080 Speaker 1: the topic of stone boiling, and it immediately brought to 237 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:44,880 Speaker 1: mind a video I had seen of about traditional nomadic 238 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:50,480 Speaker 1: Mongolian food. In this dish called bodog, they cut the 239 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:54,120 Speaker 1: head off of a goat gut the organs they don't want, 240 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:58,240 Speaker 1: and then fill the inside of the goat with broth, vegetables, 241 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:01,440 Speaker 1: and various other soup ingreedy. It's through the severed neck 242 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:04,720 Speaker 1: of the goat. The final edition is a handful of 243 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:08,360 Speaker 1: searing hot stones from a fire that are dropped into 244 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:11,160 Speaker 1: the neck, which is then tied off to create a seal. 245 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:15,600 Speaker 1: Once tied, they will shave slash skin the body, opening 246 00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:18,320 Speaker 1: up the neck every now and again to release pressure 247 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 1: or to stir the inside. In the episode discussion, stone 248 00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:25,720 Speaker 1: boiling seemed like such an ancient and bygone day method 249 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 1: of cooking, so I found it fascinating that it's still 250 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:31,720 Speaker 1: being practiced in some regions and that this archaic method 251 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:34,800 Speaker 1: has stood the test of time. Uh. And then Ethan 252 00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:36,840 Speaker 1: provides a link to the video says, thanks for the 253 00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:39,920 Speaker 1: fun discussions you've shared and I look forward to many more. Cheers, Ethan. 254 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:42,560 Speaker 1: So Ethan, I checked out this video and this is 255 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:46,320 Speaker 1: really interesting. Yeah. So it appears to be a traditional 256 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:48,920 Speaker 1: practice where you would take an animal like a goat, 257 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 1: and I think you would remove some of the some 258 00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:53,920 Speaker 1: or a lot of the meat and sort of trim 259 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:57,480 Speaker 1: it up, and then you would place the meat back 260 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 1: inside the hide to stew, along with the vegetables and 261 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:05,240 Speaker 1: the broth and the seasonings and stuff, and you'd seal 262 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:07,040 Speaker 1: it up and then yeah, you you sort of singe 263 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 1: off the outside of the skin and then you serve 264 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:11,720 Speaker 1: it up as a communal meal. You sort of cut 265 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:14,000 Speaker 1: it open at a big table if everybody's standing around. 266 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 1: And I don't know how universal this practices, but in 267 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:20,840 Speaker 1: the video that Ethan shared, there was an interesting thing 268 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:24,720 Speaker 1: where the when the stew sack is cut open before eating, 269 00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 1: all the people fish out the hot stones and they 270 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:30,480 Speaker 1: distribute them to the guests and everybody holds them in 271 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:33,640 Speaker 1: their hands, and they must still be pretty hot, because 272 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:37,360 Speaker 1: they sort of keep tossing the hot stones, uh, tossing 273 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:40,200 Speaker 1: them or passing them back and forth from palm to palm. 274 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:42,560 Speaker 1: And it can't be certain, but it looks like this 275 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:44,520 Speaker 1: is this is implied to be a regular part of 276 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:47,880 Speaker 1: the experience of eating bodug, like it's part of the meal. 277 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:51,720 Speaker 1: You'd feel the stone as a type of culinary experience. Yeah, 278 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:59,360 Speaker 1: very interesting. Well, thanks for writing in, Nathan. All right, 279 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:01,760 Speaker 1: here's another called rim message. This one comes to us 280 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 1: from Tyler Hi Robert and Joe. After listening to your 281 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 1: most recent episode on Caldrons, I was wondering if in 282 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:10,160 Speaker 1: any of the research you have done on Chinese mythology, 283 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:13,480 Speaker 1: you have run across the sculpture garden at Hopper Villa 284 00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:18,880 Speaker 1: in Singapore. Along with many scriptural dioramas depicting events in 285 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 1: Chinese mythology, there is an exhibit depicting many different circles 286 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:25,840 Speaker 1: of hell Um. I had the opportunity to visit happar 287 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:28,480 Speaker 1: when I was living in Singapore, and the whole place 288 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:30,360 Speaker 1: is very strange and a lot of fun. Here is 289 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:32,040 Speaker 1: a link to the site, but you may have better 290 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:35,680 Speaker 1: luck getting a feel for the place through an image search. Uh. 291 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:39,120 Speaker 1: And they do, in fact include this link, which is 292 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:41,880 Speaker 1: h A W P A r v I l l 293 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:45,800 Speaker 1: A dot s G and um. It is a very 294 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:48,000 Speaker 1: nice website that yeah, it doesn't it kind of seems 295 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:52,080 Speaker 1: to sort of gloss over the grizzlier details of the 296 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:54,440 Speaker 1: of the of the of the hell exhibit, or at 297 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:57,400 Speaker 1: least some of the photos you'll find it an image search. Uh. 298 00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:00,240 Speaker 1: Tyler writes, I have included a couple of photos I 299 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 1: took while there. I love the podcast and you guys 300 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 1: always do a great job, all the best, Tyler. One 301 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:10,320 Speaker 1: of these photos captures an awesome turtle man. It's like 302 00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:14,360 Speaker 1: a turtle shell, like surfing on a wave, but instead 303 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:16,440 Speaker 1: of a turtle's head coming out of the neck hole 304 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:19,600 Speaker 1: is the upper body of a man. Nice. It looks 305 00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:22,600 Speaker 1: like there's some giant crabs in here as well. And 306 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:24,720 Speaker 1: then there is looks looks like there is a large 307 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:27,480 Speaker 1: demon with a man on a meat hook or skewer 308 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:30,159 Speaker 1: of some sort, possibly dunking him into some sort of 309 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:33,360 Speaker 1: a foul river or v This turtle man, though, does 310 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:36,840 Speaker 1: not look like hell imagery. This looks like a blast. Yeah. 311 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:39,920 Speaker 1: I mean, obviously I've never been to this. Uh, this 312 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:42,040 Speaker 1: this exhibit, so I don't know what part of the 313 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:45,000 Speaker 1: exhibit this is a photo from. This may be from 314 00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 1: part of it that is not connected to the various 315 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:50,639 Speaker 1: hells and is tied with some other mythology. But it 316 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:53,040 Speaker 1: looks like there's some other sort of aquatic hybrid people 317 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:55,960 Speaker 1: in the background as well. Yeah, this looks great. So 318 00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:58,880 Speaker 1: thanks to Tyler for writing in and sharing these images 319 00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:01,400 Speaker 1: with us. Yeah, this is a fascinating place. I think 320 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:04,600 Speaker 1: I'd maybe heard of it in the past. Uh, But 321 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:06,479 Speaker 1: like I said, I certainly haven't been there, but it 322 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:14,840 Speaker 1: looks looks amazing. All right, let's see, maybe we do 323 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:19,800 Speaker 1: one more about cauldrons, This one from Lee. Lee says, Hello, 324 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:22,800 Speaker 1: Rob and Joe just finished listening to the Cauldron episode. 325 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:25,320 Speaker 1: The episode reminded me of a trick we learned when 326 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:30,359 Speaker 1: in The Scouts boiling water in a paper cup a 327 00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:33,960 Speaker 1: regular paper cup. It can be waxed, but not plastic 328 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:37,280 Speaker 1: or styrofoam, filled with water and placed in a fire 329 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:41,439 Speaker 1: and will maintain its integrity while the water boils. We 330 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:43,919 Speaker 1: took it one step further and placed an egg in 331 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:46,320 Speaker 1: the cup of water before placing it in the fire. 332 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:50,440 Speaker 1: The result was one hard boiled egg. The coup will burn, 333 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:54,120 Speaker 1: but only down to the water level. This memory got 334 00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:57,240 Speaker 1: me thinking about early cooking vessels as you were talking 335 00:18:57,320 --> 00:18:59,520 Speaker 1: about them. I have no real support for this, but 336 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:03,360 Speaker 1: please allow along. If early buckets for hauling water were 337 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:07,120 Speaker 1: made from animal hide, they likely were bowl shaped, since 338 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:10,439 Speaker 1: stitching a flat bottom would result in leaks. Handles to 339 00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 1: facilitate carrying would likely result in draw string closure of 340 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:17,920 Speaker 1: sorts to the top. Think a marble bag. If these 341 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:21,560 Speaker 1: wet water bags were suspended over a fire, the water 342 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:25,280 Speaker 1: could be boiled since the wet bag wouldn't burn. The 343 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:29,159 Speaker 1: longish carry handles could hold the bag from the tripod 344 00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:31,679 Speaker 1: or other device and be long enough to keep the 345 00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:35,320 Speaker 1: handles from the fire. If this design carried over to 346 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:37,919 Speaker 1: a vessel made of river bank clay, it could explain 347 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:41,919 Speaker 1: the round bottom of early clay cooking vessels. Again, no proof, 348 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:43,960 Speaker 1: just food for thought. Love the show, look forward to 349 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:48,800 Speaker 1: every episode. Lee. Uh, that's interestingly, I had no idea 350 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:51,040 Speaker 1: that you could boil water in a wet cup. I've 351 00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:52,880 Speaker 1: never tried it, and I don't know if the same 352 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:56,320 Speaker 1: would apply to a piece of hide, but that it 353 00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:58,800 Speaker 1: seems to make sense that it might, at least because 354 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:04,159 Speaker 1: I mean, obviously, one you introduce water into a heating equation, um, 355 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:07,200 Speaker 1: you know that's going to water just absorbs so much heat. 356 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:10,600 Speaker 1: I can see how it would potentially prevent the burning 357 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:13,239 Speaker 1: through of a material that might otherwise be burned through 358 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:16,920 Speaker 1: pretty quickly. Yeah, yeah, that's fascinating. Now I have to say, 359 00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:20,680 Speaker 1: as a as a former Scout and uh, the parent 360 00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:22,600 Speaker 1: of a current Scout, I don't think I have ever 361 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:28,120 Speaker 1: conducted this, uh this this wax paper cup egg experiment, 362 00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:33,200 Speaker 1: but I trust the listener's experience here. I'll have to 363 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:36,560 Speaker 1: try it myself. I just looked it up. Can you 364 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:39,080 Speaker 1: boil water in a paper cup? But the the Internet 365 00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 1: seems to be pretty unanimous. Yes, you can, basically because 366 00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:46,439 Speaker 1: the ignition temperature of the of the paper is going 367 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:48,480 Speaker 1: to be higher than the boiling point of the water, 368 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:51,920 Speaker 1: so that the heat that's going into the the wet 369 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:55,840 Speaker 1: bottom of the paper cup is just continually heating up 370 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 1: the water. I think it would have to evaporate the 371 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:00,200 Speaker 1: water before the cup would be able to get hot 372 00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:03,959 Speaker 1: enough to catch on fire. All right, Well, we appreciate 373 00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:06,800 Speaker 1: everyone everyone who wrote in about our Cauldron episodes, and 374 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:10,320 Speaker 1: I'm assuming we'll get some more listener mail related to 375 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:15,919 Speaker 1: those episodes plus the subsequent Cauldron episodes. Uh so, right in, 376 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:18,919 Speaker 1: let us know what you think, what you've experienced, what 377 00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:23,320 Speaker 1: you've heard. We'd love to hear from you. As a reminder, 378 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:27,280 Speaker 1: listener Mail episodes run most Mondays, and then on most 379 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:30,440 Speaker 1: Wednesdays we do a short form um episode that is 380 00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:32,840 Speaker 1: an artifact or a monster fact. On Tuesdays and Thursdays 381 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:34,960 Speaker 1: we do our core episodes of stuff to Blow your mind, 382 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:37,480 Speaker 1: and on Friday's we do weird how cinema. That's our 383 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:39,680 Speaker 1: time to set aside most serious concerns and just talk 384 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:42,040 Speaker 1: about a weird film. You'll find it all in the 385 00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:45,280 Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast feed huge thanks as 386 00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:49,200 Speaker 1: always to our excellent audio producer Seth Nicholas Johnson. If 387 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:50,919 Speaker 1: you would like to get in touch with us with 388 00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:53,480 Speaker 1: feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest a 389 00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:55,560 Speaker 1: topic for the future, or just to say hello, you 390 00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:58,200 Speaker 1: can email us at contact at stuff to Blow your 391 00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:08,280 Speaker 1: Mind dot com. Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production 392 00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:11,080 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts for my heart Radio, 393 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:13,960 Speaker 1: visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 394 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:15,359 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.