WEBVTT - DNA 0:00:10.119 --> 0:00:12.840 You're listening to a Tenderfoot TV podcast. 0:00:13.119 --> 0:00:15.160 Girls. 0:00:16.239 --> 0:00:19.280 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely 0:00:19.280 --> 0:00:22.480 those of the authors and participants and do not necessarily 0:00:22.520 --> 0:00:27.040 represent those of iHeartMedia, Tenderfoot TV, or their employees. This 0:00:27.160 --> 0:00:31.760 series contains discussions of violence and sexual violence. Listener discretion 0:00:32.040 --> 0:00:38.920 is advised. Previously on Algorithm, I spoke with a caller 0:00:39.000 --> 0:00:42.040 who told me about Darren Vond's ruse and her theory 0:00:42.120 --> 0:00:43.080 about his motivation. 0:00:43.920 --> 0:00:47.080 His mom had to be everything about what he went 0:00:47.120 --> 0:00:47.839 out and kieled. 0:00:48.280 --> 0:00:51.359 And I asked Bond's lawyer, Guiko Kasich, what led Von 0:00:51.479 --> 0:00:53.319 to change his mind about the death penalty. 0:00:53.680 --> 0:00:56.320 From the very beginning is and when death I want death? 0:00:56.360 --> 0:00:58.720 I want death. And then all of a sudden, about. 0:00:58.440 --> 0:01:01.600 Three days, four days before we cut the play, he 0:01:01.760 --> 0:01:02.520 changed his mind. 0:01:03.160 --> 0:01:05.520 I hoped that Vond might now be open to confessing 0:01:05.520 --> 0:01:08.160 to more murders, so I sent him a letter, and 0:01:08.199 --> 0:01:11.200 months later I received a response from Vaughn where he 0:01:11.280 --> 0:01:14.800 agreed to an interview. I, Darren D. Vaughn would like 0:01:14.880 --> 0:01:17.199 to offer you a deal. You would have to write 0:01:17.240 --> 0:01:20.480 a report of the corruption that's ongoing at the Wabash 0:01:20.560 --> 0:01:24.880 Valley correctional facility, but when I contacted the Department of Corrections, 0:01:25.319 --> 0:01:31.360 they told me he wasn't interested. From iHeartRadio and Tenderfoot TV, 0:01:31.960 --> 0:01:36.559 this is algorithm. I'm ben Keebrick. I think beyond a 0:01:36.600 --> 0:01:39.279 new confession from Vaughn, one of the best chances we 0:01:39.400 --> 0:01:43.280 have of connecting him to additional crimes is DNA. Because 0:01:43.280 --> 0:01:46.519 of backlogs in DNA testing across the country, I wondered 0:01:46.520 --> 0:01:49.480 if police had ever checked for DNA evidence associated with 0:01:49.520 --> 0:01:53.160 the cold cases Hargrove had identified, or with other unsolved 0:01:53.240 --> 0:01:57.000 murderers or sexual assaults in the area. I came across 0:01:57.000 --> 0:02:00.600 an article from the Northwest Indiana Times that in twenty eighteen, 0:02:01.040 --> 0:02:04.600 Lake County, Indiana, had found over two hundred untested rape 0:02:04.680 --> 0:02:07.960 kits and made plans to test them. I was curious 0:02:08.120 --> 0:02:11.040 what came of that effort. The article mentioned one of 0:02:11.080 --> 0:02:14.959 the people involved was Lake County Deputy Prosecutor Nadia Wardrop, 0:02:15.480 --> 0:02:18.560 so I reached out to her for comment. Wardrop is 0:02:18.600 --> 0:02:21.919 one of four female deputy prosecutors who in twenty eighteen 0:02:22.079 --> 0:02:24.559 were brought in to reform the way crimes like sexual 0:02:24.600 --> 0:02:28.480 assault were handled. When I emailed Wardrop, she told me 0:02:28.519 --> 0:02:30.640 that she wanted to talk, but said she couldn't do 0:02:30.720 --> 0:02:34.320 so without permission and forwarded my email to their PR person. 0:02:35.359 --> 0:02:37.680 I looped back a week later and she told me 0:02:37.760 --> 0:02:40.640 she still hadn't gotten to go ahead, but recommended I 0:02:40.720 --> 0:02:44.519 contact the fair Haven Rape Crisis Center. It's a nonprofit 0:02:44.560 --> 0:02:47.560 group that was also involved in Lake County's initiative to 0:02:47.639 --> 0:02:50.840 test their untested rape kits. I called there and spoke 0:02:50.880 --> 0:02:51.799 to Becca Emerson. 0:02:53.359 --> 0:02:55.520 So, my name is Becca Emerson, and I am the 0:02:55.560 --> 0:02:58.839 anti trafficking coordinator at fair Haven Rape Crisis Center. 0:02:59.560 --> 0:03:02.559 It turned out that Becca was actually familiar with the podcast. 0:03:03.120 --> 0:03:04.919 Can I ask what podcast this is? I'm a big 0:03:04.959 --> 0:03:06.919 podcast listener, like to check out. 0:03:07.239 --> 0:03:09.559 So it's called Algorithm. 0:03:09.799 --> 0:03:12.359 Oh my god, I listened to your podcast. 0:03:12.480 --> 0:03:13.760 I was just listening to the one. 0:03:14.200 --> 0:03:16.119 Oh my god. I'm sorry. Now I'm like all Star starts. 0:03:17.040 --> 0:03:18.800 So when I was looking into this stuff, it looked 0:03:18.840 --> 0:03:23.839 like in twenty seventeen, there was this statewide initiative to 0:03:24.519 --> 0:03:27.639 look into untested rape kids. 0:03:27.720 --> 0:03:31.560 Yes, that is correct. So the statewide initiative was a 0:03:31.720 --> 0:03:36.640 voluntary initiative put forward by our state to see how 0:03:36.680 --> 0:03:40.119 many untested kits we had. Because back in twenty seventeen 0:03:40.240 --> 0:03:44.240 was when the discussion at a nationwide level of the backlog. 0:03:43.840 --> 0:03:46.520 Was starting to happen. So this was a big hot topic, 0:03:46.560 --> 0:03:47.480 and Indiana got on. 0:03:47.440 --> 0:03:49.760 Board and said, we need to test our kids. 0:03:49.600 --> 0:03:51.200 And we need to see how many we have to 0:03:51.240 --> 0:03:51.480 do that. 0:03:52.200 --> 0:03:56.120 So there was this initiative. It was not mandatory, and 0:03:56.160 --> 0:03:58.720 I believe ninety one out of our ninety two counties 0:03:58.760 --> 0:03:59.440 did participate. 0:03:59.480 --> 0:04:00.920 In Lake County was one of them. 0:04:01.440 --> 0:04:01.680 Yeah. 0:04:02.160 --> 0:04:03.800 Then I think when I was looking through the report, 0:04:03.960 --> 0:04:07.760 you know, they asked for all their jurisdictions to report, 0:04:07.880 --> 0:04:10.080 and it looked like maybe not all of them had. 0:04:10.520 --> 0:04:13.520 Yeah, Lake County did not have all of our jurisdiction's report. 0:04:14.680 --> 0:04:16.520 I do know that some of them did. 0:04:16.400 --> 0:04:20.480 And I do have those numbers, but not every jurisdiction 0:04:20.520 --> 0:04:21.880 in Lake County participated. 0:04:22.440 --> 0:04:22.960 Yeah. 0:04:23.080 --> 0:04:26.360 Do you happen to know which ones didn't or not? 0:04:26.560 --> 0:04:29.000 Off the top of my head. I do know that. 0:04:30.600 --> 0:04:34.600 Hammond Police Department had a pretty high number, one of 0:04:34.640 --> 0:04:37.080 our highest cities in our county. 0:04:37.120 --> 0:04:38.000 But I mean, we have. 0:04:38.240 --> 0:04:41.200 I think fourteen different municipalities in our county. We're the 0:04:41.200 --> 0:04:44.680 second largest county in the state. So in twenty seventeen, 0:04:44.760 --> 0:04:47.680 Lake County came together with our sexual assault Response team 0:04:48.400 --> 0:04:51.440 with our Prosecutor's office and said, we need to test 0:04:51.480 --> 0:04:53.680 every single kit. We need to test all of them 0:04:53.720 --> 0:04:56.719 going back, and we need to test every kit going forward. 0:04:57.520 --> 0:05:00.200 According to the audit, Lake County identified a total of 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:04.080 two hundred and fifty seven untested kits and they determine 0:05:04.200 --> 0:05:06.360 that two hundred and thirty eight of those kits should 0:05:06.360 --> 0:05:08.800 be tested. So out of this two hundred and thirty 0:05:08.800 --> 0:05:11.240 eight kits, how many of those kits have been tested? 0:05:11.280 --> 0:05:11.560 Now? 0:05:11.920 --> 0:05:15.120 All of them we had, Like I said, I know 0:05:15.160 --> 0:05:17.160 I can speak for ham And Police Department for sure 0:05:17.160 --> 0:05:19.640 because I spoke to that detective directly a while ago 0:05:19.680 --> 0:05:23.080 about it. They were taking ten kits every week to 0:05:23.160 --> 0:05:25.600 be tested until their backlog was done. And within the 0:05:25.640 --> 0:05:28.400 first year after rape kit reform was passed, ham And 0:05:28.440 --> 0:05:31.560 Police Department had cleared their backlog. So all two hundred 0:05:31.600 --> 0:05:33.200 and thirty eight have been tested as of now. 0:05:34.440 --> 0:05:37.159 And when you say taking ten kits, is that they're 0:05:37.200 --> 0:05:39.840 like driving them to the lab where they do the 0:05:39.880 --> 0:05:41.560 testing or yes. 0:05:41.400 --> 0:05:44.920 Sir, every person who has possession of that kit, it 0:05:44.960 --> 0:05:47.440 needs to be documented who had it and when, so 0:05:48.280 --> 0:05:51.760 they have to personally drive that kit to our state lab, 0:05:51.760 --> 0:05:54.680 which is about forty five minutes away. So now what 0:05:54.880 --> 0:05:59.400 happens when somebody reports in Lake County? The law enforcement 0:05:59.560 --> 0:06:02.320 agency who is handling the case now has seventy two 0:06:02.360 --> 0:06:04.920 hours to pick up that kit from the medical facility 0:06:04.920 --> 0:06:08.120 where it was done, and then the lab tests all 0:06:08.200 --> 0:06:11.280 kits that come in on a first come, first serve basis. 0:06:11.840 --> 0:06:14.640 So sometimes it may take five to six seven weeks 0:06:14.640 --> 0:06:17.320 for the kit to be tested, but every kit is 0:06:17.360 --> 0:06:21.280 tested now. And now our entire state has adopted a 0:06:21.320 --> 0:06:24.560 tracking system, so when a victim is in the hospital 0:06:24.600 --> 0:06:27.800 and getting that exam done, they are given a pin 0:06:27.920 --> 0:06:30.600 number so that anytime the victim can go into the 0:06:30.680 --> 0:06:34.200 database and see where her kit is so they can 0:06:34.240 --> 0:06:37.160 look and see, Okay, it was picked up by law enforcement. Okay, 0:06:37.200 --> 0:06:39.000 now it was dropped off at the lab. Okay, now 0:06:39.000 --> 0:06:40.040 the lab is testing it. 0:06:40.840 --> 0:06:43.080 So I think I was reading online that the original 0:06:43.120 --> 0:06:47.680 plan was to dispose of kits that were like older 0:06:47.680 --> 0:06:51.480 than ten years old unless the victim came forward and 0:06:51.520 --> 0:06:55.760 specifically requested that their kit got tested. Do you know 0:06:55.840 --> 0:06:56.600 what happened with that? 0:06:58.320 --> 0:07:02.120 As far as my understanding, all kits up through twenty 0:07:02.160 --> 0:07:03.520 oh seven were tested. 0:07:03.600 --> 0:07:04.960 But I do know that some of our. 0:07:04.960 --> 0:07:08.480 Jurisdictions in our county went back even further and just 0:07:08.560 --> 0:07:13.640 tested all of their kits, So there were some that 0:07:13.680 --> 0:07:16.080 were tested from prior to ten years. 0:07:15.880 --> 0:07:16.480 Prior to that. 0:07:17.600 --> 0:07:21.720 So some places went back and tested older kids. But 0:07:21.760 --> 0:07:23.440 you're not sure about the details of that. 0:07:24.000 --> 0:07:25.720 Oh, I'm not okay. 0:07:27.680 --> 0:07:30.800 You know, I'm kind of curious about that, specifically with 0:07:30.880 --> 0:07:34.920 the algorithm stuff, because you know, there might have been 0:07:34.920 --> 0:07:38.160 this this serial killer active and kind of like the 0:07:38.600 --> 0:07:43.400 nineties to early two thousands. You know, just be interesting 0:07:43.600 --> 0:07:47.720 if if there were any kits from that period that 0:07:47.760 --> 0:07:48.720 we're getting tested. 0:07:49.520 --> 0:07:50.000 Absolutely. 0:07:50.120 --> 0:07:53.440 Unfortunately I don't know personally, but I mean, if you 0:07:53.480 --> 0:07:56.600 find out, let me know, because I've been following algorithms, 0:07:56.600 --> 0:07:59.640 so this case is very interesting to me as well. 0:08:00.400 --> 0:08:03.160 I asked doctor Lovell, the researcher that was involved in 0:08:03.200 --> 0:08:07.360 Cleveland's sexual Assault kid initiative, whether destroying rape kits was common. 0:08:08.440 --> 0:08:10.760 They said they would only test the kits going back 0:08:10.920 --> 0:08:14.640 ten years, and that they were going to like throw 0:08:14.680 --> 0:08:19.240 away their old kits unless victims came forward and said 0:08:19.240 --> 0:08:22.480 that they wanted them still tested. And you know it 0:08:22.480 --> 0:08:25.440 seems like costant basically nothing to keep those kits and 0:08:25.520 --> 0:08:27.760 kind of you never know even if you don't have 0:08:27.800 --> 0:08:30.680 the resources to do it. Now you know that things 0:08:30.720 --> 0:08:32.320 will get cheaper and stuff like that. 0:08:33.319 --> 0:08:35.480 Yeah, I think, and we've seen that as well, and 0:08:35.559 --> 0:08:38.439 there's been some I think political. Maybe it was CNN, 0:08:38.480 --> 0:08:41.840 I can't remember. Anyway, they did a pretty extensive analysis 0:08:41.920 --> 0:08:44.960 of destroying rape kits and destroying evidence. 0:08:45.360 --> 0:08:48.719 I found the article level was referring to. CNN had 0:08:48.760 --> 0:08:52.720 surveyed over two hundred police departments across all fifty states 0:08:53.000 --> 0:08:55.480 and found that almost half of them had destroyed some 0:08:55.640 --> 0:08:59.880 untested kits. Sometimes these kids had been destroyed improperly, and 0:09:00.000 --> 0:09:02.559 other times they're destroyed in accordance with policy. 0:09:03.199 --> 0:09:06.759 I think you see that quite a bit, that law enforcement. 0:09:07.319 --> 0:09:10.520 They all make their their own policies around how long 0:09:10.559 --> 0:09:13.920 they keep evidence. Some of them are mandated now by states, 0:09:14.319 --> 0:09:17.320 so Ohio now has uh I think it's the thirty 0:09:17.400 --> 0:09:20.959 years that they have to keep biological evidence. But you know, 0:09:21.199 --> 0:09:24.480 if they're following their practices, which they have you know, 0:09:24.520 --> 0:09:26.599 written out, and they say, oh, we only keep things 0:09:26.599 --> 0:09:30.320 ten years, otherwise we destroy it, I think some of 0:09:30.360 --> 0:09:33.920 those practices need to be re examined, and that means 0:09:33.920 --> 0:09:36.160 that you know, tax payers have to fit the bill 0:09:36.240 --> 0:09:39.800 to provide more storage facilities. But you know that to 0:09:39.839 --> 0:09:42.959 me doesn't seem like an insurmountable problem. And I think 0:09:43.000 --> 0:09:45.760 if the technology for DNA is telling us anything, it's 0:09:45.760 --> 0:09:49.840 that it's growing so fast and exponentially getting so much 0:09:49.880 --> 0:09:52.879 better that you know what, we couldn't get a DNA 0:09:52.959 --> 0:09:55.959 profile from now ten years from now, who knows. I mean, 0:09:55.959 --> 0:09:58.920 look at what genealogy testing has done, you know. So 0:09:59.280 --> 0:10:03.400 the thought that jurisdictions would just throw away evidence would 0:10:03.480 --> 0:10:06.120 suggest to me that they somehow think that what they're 0:10:06.120 --> 0:10:09.280 doing now has reached the pinnacle of all technology and 0:10:09.319 --> 0:10:12.360 that their investigative practices at the time were the best 0:10:12.400 --> 0:10:14.999 that they could possibly ever be, two things that I 0:10:15.040 --> 0:10:18.720 think you just can't assume. And it's a little disconcerting 0:10:18.800 --> 0:10:21.319 to hear about sort of putting all of the onus 0:10:21.360 --> 0:10:24.440 onto victims to reach out to the department and say, hey, 0:10:24.480 --> 0:10:26.719 I know I had this kit. I thought you tested it. 0:10:27.760 --> 0:10:29.800 How was I to know you didn't test it? And 0:10:29.839 --> 0:10:31.880 the cost of testing, by the way, as I said, 0:10:31.880 --> 0:10:35.079 has gone down quite dramatically, So just the testing is 0:10:35.120 --> 0:10:38.440 about five hundred dollars in Ohio, and then to have 0:10:38.559 --> 0:10:41.319 someone you know read the results and write a report 0:10:41.400 --> 0:10:44.199 is about another five hundred dollars. So you know, you're 0:10:44.199 --> 0:10:47.520 really talking about one thousand dollars per kit, which in 0:10:47.559 --> 0:10:50.959 the criminal justice system isn't a huge cost, you know, 0:10:51.040 --> 0:10:52.519 relative to the outcomes. 0:10:53.559 --> 0:10:56.239 I followed up with the Wake County Prosecutor's office to 0:10:56.280 --> 0:10:58.680 see if they had more information about what had happened 0:10:58.719 --> 0:11:01.800 to their older kids. I also wanted to know which 0:11:01.880 --> 0:11:05.640 jurisdictions within Lake County had participated in the audit. And 0:11:05.679 --> 0:11:08.000 I've been trying to get answers to these questions since 0:11:08.120 --> 0:11:08.679 the first. 0:11:08.439 --> 0:11:09.040 Week of July. 0:11:09.640 --> 0:11:12.079 It's now the last week of August and I've still 0:11:12.120 --> 0:11:15.800 heard nothing. And it's important to get answers to these questions. 0:11:16.640 --> 0:11:19.280 When you claim you've solved your rape kit backlog, there's 0:11:19.319 --> 0:11:22.120 a big difference between doing a proper accounting of all 0:11:22.160 --> 0:11:25.600 backlog kits and testing them and doing a partial accounting 0:11:25.679 --> 0:11:30.880 and then throwing away a substantial number of kits. After 0:11:31.000 --> 0:11:34.920 radio silence from the Lake County Prosecutor's Office, I continued digging. 0:11:35.520 --> 0:11:38.280 I came across another article about the initiative from the 0:11:38.319 --> 0:11:41.880 Chicago Tribune. It mentions that out of the two hundred 0:11:41.880 --> 0:11:44.600 and fifty seven kits found in the audit, one hundred 0:11:44.599 --> 0:11:47.480 and ninety four were found in Hammond, thirty one in 0:11:47.520 --> 0:11:50.959 East Chicago, and twenty two in Maryville. So if you 0:11:51.000 --> 0:11:53.840 add up those numbers, two hundred and forty seven of 0:11:53.839 --> 0:11:57.559 the kits were found from those jurisdictions alone. That leaves 0:11:57.559 --> 0:12:00.120 a maximum of ten kits that could have been found 0:12:00.120 --> 0:12:03.239 in Gary, despite the fact that Hammond found one hundred 0:12:03.240 --> 0:12:05.960 and ninety four kits and they have an almost identical 0:12:06.040 --> 0:12:10.359 population to Gary. I think the most parsimonious explanation here 0:12:10.520 --> 0:12:13.199 is that Gary didn't participate in the audit, and it's 0:12:13.280 --> 0:12:17.520 unclear to what extent they've kept backlog kits or tested them. 0:12:17.839 --> 0:12:20.560 I was also curious about why Lake County had chosen 0:12:20.599 --> 0:12:23.640 to destroy kits more than ten years old. That would 0:12:23.679 --> 0:12:25.920 mean they would not include kids from two thousand and 0:12:25.920 --> 0:12:31.040 seven or before. Interestingly, two thousand and seven is the 0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:36.120 last year that Hargrove's algorithm observed an increase in unsolved strangulations, 0:12:36.599 --> 0:12:42.040 and Vaughan was arrested the very next year. I wondered 0:12:42.079 --> 0:12:44.560 at first whether ten years might be the statute of 0:12:44.599 --> 0:12:48.640 limitations for rape in Indiana, but when I looked into it, 0:12:48.839 --> 0:12:52.679 type one felony rape has no statute of limitations in Indiana, 0:12:53.360 --> 0:12:55.959 So it's unclear to me why those kits would not 0:12:56.000 --> 0:13:00.520 be preserved. But even if Lake County had retained and 0:13:00.559 --> 0:13:03.480 tested all their kits, it wouldn't necessarily be able to 0:13:03.520 --> 0:13:06.640 link Darren Vaughn to a homicide only to a sexual 0:13:06.640 --> 0:13:10.800 assault because the twenty seventeen initiative in Indiana and most 0:13:10.800 --> 0:13:14.240 of the initiatives to address rape kit backlogs don't include 0:13:14.319 --> 0:13:16.160 DNA from homicide victims. 0:13:16.640 --> 0:13:17.520 I do believe that. 0:13:17.480 --> 0:13:20.320 This statewide audit was only for kits taken from a 0:13:20.400 --> 0:13:21.599 victim in a hospital. 0:13:21.959 --> 0:13:23.160 I don't know if any. 0:13:23.000 --> 0:13:25.599 Of them were taken from homicide victims. 0:13:26.000 --> 0:13:28.720 In Kyga County, if there was a murder rape, it 0:13:28.760 --> 0:13:31.800 went to the homicide unit as compared to the sex 0:13:31.880 --> 0:13:36.239 crimes unit. So if there was a rape, no homicide it, 0:13:36.240 --> 0:13:40.240 it was investigated differently and went to different units. So 0:13:40.319 --> 0:13:42.600 for the rape kits that we look at, there wasn't 0:13:42.679 --> 0:13:48.280 murders as part of that. There were rape homicides, but 0:13:48.520 --> 0:13:51.120 those were sort of in a different category. 0:13:51.880 --> 0:13:54.240 Yeah, and so you guys didn't go back and look 0:13:54.280 --> 0:13:57.640 at those homicide associated ones as well. 0:13:57.839 --> 0:14:01.080 Not as part of the sexual salt kit initiative, but 0:14:01.199 --> 0:14:04.560 I know that Kyga County Prosecutor's office might also be 0:14:04.640 --> 0:14:08.559 looking at some of the rape homicides because there's funding 0:14:08.559 --> 0:14:11.520 now at the federal level to do some of that doing. 0:14:11.559 --> 0:14:13.599 I think what you're talking about here sort of expanding 0:14:13.679 --> 0:14:15.920 out the scope of it. 0:14:16.959 --> 0:14:21.680 In fact, last October, the Cuyahoga Prosecutor's Office announced that 0:14:21.720 --> 0:14:24.040 it had received a million dollar grant from the US 0:14:24.120 --> 0:14:28.520 Department of Justice to continue their sexual assault kit testing program, 0:14:28.760 --> 0:14:31.360 and part of that grant includes a pilot project to 0:14:31.440 --> 0:14:36.400 do forensic genealogy on thirty two samples from sexually motivated homicides. 0:14:37.480 --> 0:14:40.720 Forensic genealogy is the technique that was used to catch 0:14:40.760 --> 0:14:44.000 the Golden State killer. It doesn't just look for complete 0:14:44.000 --> 0:14:47.080 matches with someone on the CODIS database, but looks for 0:14:47.120 --> 0:14:51.240 partial matches and CODIS and public DNA databases to find 0:14:51.320 --> 0:14:56.680 relatives of the perpetrator. Then genealogical techniques and further investigation 0:14:57.000 --> 0:15:00.640 can be used to identify the offender. Other grants from 0:15:00.680 --> 0:15:03.880 the Department of Justice or funding similar efforts to help 0:15:03.920 --> 0:15:07.760 solve cold case homicides. It appears, though, that the emphasis 0:15:07.800 --> 0:15:10.280 is on going back to cold cases where a DNA 0:15:10.360 --> 0:15:13.440 profile of the perpetrator had already been generated, but that 0:15:13.520 --> 0:15:15.920 they had never matched it to a suspect, and the 0:15:15.920 --> 0:15:18.920 grants give money to use forensic genealogy to try to 0:15:18.960 --> 0:15:22.760 find that match. I couldn't find any grants funding going 0:15:22.800 --> 0:15:25.560 back and doing an accounting of all the cold case evidence. 0:15:26.120 --> 0:15:29.600 Doctor Lovell wonders if an approach similar to Cuyahoga County's 0:15:29.600 --> 0:15:34.400 sexual assault kit initiative might benefit homicide investigations as well. 0:15:34.600 --> 0:15:37.440 Sachi, you know, as successful as it has been, I 0:15:37.440 --> 0:15:39.840 think it shows that there's great value in going to 0:15:39.920 --> 0:15:43.600 the cold cases in cold case homicides as well and 0:15:43.720 --> 0:15:46.360 really trying to see is there evidence that could be tested. 0:15:46.920 --> 0:15:49.480 Is there something in terms of genealogy that could be 0:15:49.520 --> 0:15:53.040 done where all the evidence tested, you know, was it 0:15:53.080 --> 0:15:57.040 tested using current techniques or was it only tested for zerology? 0:15:57.480 --> 0:15:59.360 You know, things like that that they're starting to ask 0:15:59.440 --> 0:16:00.239 those questions. 0:16:02.080 --> 0:16:05.160 Last July, over a year ago now, I'd reached out 0:16:05.200 --> 0:16:07.360 to the Lake County corners to try to find out 0:16:07.440 --> 0:16:11.240 more information about the victims Hargrove had identified. I was 0:16:11.320 --> 0:16:14.320 curious if DNA evidence was collected and if it was 0:16:14.360 --> 0:16:18.080 ever tested and submitted to CODIS, the federal DNA database. 0:16:19.160 --> 0:16:21.680 I was unable to get answers from the coroner's department 0:16:21.720 --> 0:16:25.040 about these cases, perhaps because they were unsolved and therefore 0:16:25.080 --> 0:16:28.720 still open. I'm not sure, but I wonder to what 0:16:28.840 --> 0:16:32.440 extent older samples from cold cases have gone untested the 0:16:32.440 --> 0:16:36.000 way rape kits were. I hope that DNA evidence from 0:16:36.080 --> 0:16:39.160 old homicides like this have been preserved, and I hope 0:16:39.200 --> 0:16:41.880 if they haven't been tested yet, one day they will 0:16:41.880 --> 0:17:00.640 be investigating the algorithm and then Darren Vaughan has been 0:17:00.640 --> 0:17:03.960 a roller coaster. It wasn't at all what I imagined 0:17:04.000 --> 0:17:07.480 when I first began working on this project. And sometimes 0:17:07.480 --> 0:17:10.280 I feel I've gotten so far off my original path 0:17:10.480 --> 0:17:13.160 that I worry that I've gotten lost, that I'm missing 0:17:13.240 --> 0:17:16.159 something big, or maybe missing the forest for the trees. 0:17:17.159 --> 0:17:20.040 And sometimes I find myself wondering what's the point of 0:17:20.080 --> 0:17:23.679 solving these cold cases in the first place. Of course, 0:17:23.800 --> 0:17:26.760 they could potentially lead to the arrest of a violent criminal, 0:17:27.080 --> 0:17:30.240 a perpetrator who might kill again. But if we're looking 0:17:30.320 --> 0:17:33.240 specifically for a connection to Vaughan, then what's the point 0:17:33.320 --> 0:17:37.320 if he's already serving life in prison. I was hoping 0:17:37.320 --> 0:17:40.320 to find a connection to previous crimes to prove that 0:17:40.359 --> 0:17:44.239 Hargrove's algorithm had predictive value, that it was able to 0:17:44.320 --> 0:17:47.879 identify an active serial killer before the police did, and 0:17:47.920 --> 0:17:50.960 therefore that it would be a valuable tool for law enforcement. 0:17:51.720 --> 0:17:54.159 I think there's no doubt that the algorithm identified that 0:17:54.280 --> 0:17:57.440 something very unusual was going on in Gary with its 0:17:57.480 --> 0:18:02.200 identification of fifteen unsolved strangulations over a sixteen year period. 0:18:02.960 --> 0:18:05.600 I think it's very possible that some of these murders 0:18:05.680 --> 0:18:09.119 were the work of Vaughan or another serial killer. On 0:18:09.200 --> 0:18:12.480 the other hand, Gary is a very unusual city where 0:18:12.480 --> 0:18:16.560 many murders go unsolved, and it's a city full of 0:18:16.560 --> 0:18:19.919 abandoned buildings where bodies can be hidden or even dumped 0:18:19.920 --> 0:18:22.000 from homicides and other jurisdictions. 0:18:22.440 --> 0:18:27.480 So is this algorithm perfect? No? Can it produce false results? Absolutely. 0:18:28.639 --> 0:18:32.920 What we tell people always is what the algorithm does 0:18:33.200 --> 0:18:38.200 is to identify clusters of murders that have an elevated 0:18:38.720 --> 0:18:43.800 probability of containing serial murder. That just means if the 0:18:43.879 --> 0:18:46.720 FBI says that serial murder occurs in less than one 0:18:46.760 --> 0:18:50.279 percent of all homicides. We no longer believe that, but 0:18:50.520 --> 0:18:54.760 that's the official reckoning for how common serial murder is. Well, 0:18:54.879 --> 0:18:57.639 if less than one percent of murders are likely to 0:18:57.680 --> 0:19:01.240 be serial, our algorithm will do better than that. It 0:19:01.320 --> 0:19:04.199 will identify murders that have a better than one percent 0:19:04.320 --> 0:19:08.760 probability of containing serial murders. It turns out way better 0:19:08.800 --> 0:19:13.359 than one percent. We frequently are determining cases that are connected. 0:19:14.119 --> 0:19:16.999 But there is a failure rate, and what are some 0:19:17.040 --> 0:19:19.840 of the things that can go south on the algorithm. 0:19:20.359 --> 0:19:25.119 If you have a police department that has a relentlessly 0:19:25.240 --> 0:19:30.440 low clearance rate, like the Flint, Michigan Police Department, everything 0:19:30.520 --> 0:19:33.720 looks serial because there's a low clearance rate for every 0:19:33.800 --> 0:19:36.800 kind of murder, and there's not much you can do 0:19:36.879 --> 0:19:40.919 about that. And that's a problem because we're becoming less 0:19:40.920 --> 0:19:43.280 and less likely to solve a murder. In the United 0:19:43.320 --> 0:19:47.800 States today, there are dozens of major cities where most 0:19:47.879 --> 0:19:51.879 murders go unsolved. That means we're going to get false 0:19:51.960 --> 0:19:56.320 positives because of the algorithm's technique. We're trying to overcome 0:19:56.800 --> 0:20:00.760 those challenges, and we have actually We've made some improvements 0:20:00.840 --> 0:20:05.800 in the methods, but it's a problem. 0:20:05.920 --> 0:20:08.000 I want to look at the algorithm and the ways 0:20:08.080 --> 0:20:10.720 it might be better used shortly, but first I want 0:20:10.760 --> 0:20:14.240 to get hypothetical for a moment. Let's say we found 0:20:14.280 --> 0:20:17.320 evidence that Vaughn was connected to one or more murders 0:20:17.359 --> 0:20:20.879 on the algorithm's list, proof that Hargrove was right in 0:20:20.920 --> 0:20:24.879 his twenty ten letter. What should police have done. Create 0:20:24.920 --> 0:20:27.280 a task force to look into evidence that might connect 0:20:27.320 --> 0:20:31.639 the crimes, notify the public, and what if police find 0:20:31.720 --> 0:20:36.239 something more concrete, like DNA evidence or firearm forensics that 0:20:36.280 --> 0:20:40.400 definitively link multiple murders, does the public have a right 0:20:40.440 --> 0:20:44.399 to know that information, even though publicizing that information could 0:20:44.480 --> 0:20:48.040 let the killer know the detectives are onto them. It 0:20:48.080 --> 0:20:51.080 seems to me that in a situation like Vonn's twenty 0:20:51.159 --> 0:20:55.359 fourteen murders and Gary, where the victims share characteristics, that 0:20:55.440 --> 0:20:58.280 the police would have had some obligation to warn other 0:20:58.320 --> 0:21:01.639 possible victims. But it's hard for the police to stop 0:21:01.639 --> 0:21:05.359 a future homicide from taking place, and in the case 0:21:05.399 --> 0:21:08.920 of Vaughn's twenty fourteen murders and Gary, police weren't even 0:21:08.960 --> 0:21:12.320 aware of the murders until after Vaughn's arrest. There was 0:21:12.359 --> 0:21:15.639 a strong suggestion that some of the victims, like Tira Batty, 0:21:15.879 --> 0:21:19.600 had been murdered thanks to Marvin Clinton's own investigation, But 0:21:19.680 --> 0:21:23.560 without discovering the bodies and submitting supplemental homicide reports to 0:21:23.600 --> 0:21:27.000 the FBI, Hargrove's algorithm wouldn't have been able to detect 0:21:27.040 --> 0:21:30.399 the cluster of Vonn's twenty fourteen crimes. That made me 0:21:30.520 --> 0:21:33.480 curious about how many missing persons there are out there, 0:21:33.720 --> 0:21:36.959 and how many of them are really homicide victims. So 0:21:37.000 --> 0:21:40.639 I called up Todd Matthews and then to get the 0:21:40.760 --> 0:21:43.280 levels on my end. Can you tell me what you 0:21:43.320 --> 0:21:44.560 had for breakfast this morning? 0:21:45.159 --> 0:21:47.879 I had coffee. I had about five cups of coffee today. 0:21:48.000 --> 0:21:49.680 I'm like a snake, ill like it once a day. 0:21:50.000 --> 0:21:51.399 Just ate something nice and solid. 0:21:53.119 --> 0:21:56.200 After he helped identify it Jane Doe through webslew Thing, 0:21:56.560 --> 0:21:59.679 Matthews founded the Dough Network in nineteen ninety nine. It 0:21:59.760 --> 0:22:04.280 was a national database for missing persons and also unidentified bodies, 0:22:04.520 --> 0:22:07.080 with the hopes of connecting John and Jane Doe's to 0:22:07.359 --> 0:22:12.119