WEBVTT - Is Valve Taking On Microsoft? With Steve Burke 0:00:02.440 --> 0:00:03.520 Also media. 0:00:05.840 --> 0:00:08.960 Hello, and welcome to Better Offline. I'm your host ed Zeitron, 0:00:20.760 --> 0:00:22.720 and i'd like to announce that, much like in video 0:00:22.760 --> 0:00:25.400 revealed in a recent leaked memo, we are also nothing 0:00:25.480 --> 0:00:28.600 like Enron. Today I'm joined by the wonderful Steve Burke 0:00:28.640 --> 0:00:30.880 from Gamers Nexus, who's going to talk to you about 0:00:30.920 --> 0:00:33.000 I know it's a thematic shift from the show about 0:00:33.000 --> 0:00:37.040 something that actually exists, and we're talking about announcement from 0:00:37.040 --> 0:00:39.400 a few weeks ago from Valve about the Steam Frame 0:00:39.479 --> 0:00:42.080 headset and the Steam Machine console. Steve, thank you for 0:00:42.159 --> 0:00:43.600 joining me, Thank you. 0:00:43.560 --> 0:00:47.680 For having me a quick question. What was that Enron thing? 0:00:47.880 --> 0:00:49.600 I think, yes, oh. 0:00:49.280 --> 0:00:52.400 This is this is important. So Nvidio had an internal 0:00:52.440 --> 0:00:55.720 memo that they put out and they said it's and 0:00:55.800 --> 0:00:58.800 the headline from Barons was I'm just going to pull 0:00:58.840 --> 0:01:00.520 this up right now because it's one of my favorite 0:01:00.520 --> 0:01:02.880 I've ever read. And video says it's not Enron in 0:01:02.880 --> 0:01:08.319 private memo refusing accounting questions. Ah, good stuff, that's Good's 0:01:08.480 --> 0:01:10.600 that's what we want to hear. And they were like, 0:01:10.640 --> 0:01:14.039 we're nothing like Enron because we don't use SPVs to 0:01:14.160 --> 0:01:20.119 inflate revenue. It's also good it's all real, Steve, It's. 0:01:19.959 --> 0:01:22.760 All very real. I'm starting to I'm starting to have 0:01:22.800 --> 0:01:27.360 my doubts that the AI stuff has built on anything real. 0:01:27.840 --> 0:01:30.520 Although I didn't hear about the two data centers that 0:01:31.040 --> 0:01:34.160 are currently sitting empty because the grid can't support them 0:01:34.200 --> 0:01:37.120 until twenty twenty eighth, which ones because it was in 0:01:37.200 --> 0:01:38.399 that northern California. 0:01:38.800 --> 0:01:41.319 Hell yeah, I love this. This is we live in 0:01:41.319 --> 0:01:45.160 the future. But genuinely, talk to me about the Steam Machine. 0:01:45.440 --> 0:01:47.880 What is this thing? It's like a games console, like, 0:01:48.000 --> 0:01:48.680 walk me through it. 0:01:49.240 --> 0:01:52.400 Yeah, no, I mean this stuff's actually it was a 0:01:52.440 --> 0:01:55.440 really nice break from everything else because, like you said, 0:01:55.680 --> 0:01:59.400 it's real. They're actually doing stuff. It's consumer facing, so 0:01:59.440 --> 0:02:02.000 that's nice. There's some pretty some of these things have 0:02:02.040 --> 0:02:05.760 cool innovations in them. So the Steam Machine is a 0:02:06.240 --> 0:02:11.120 small basically small form factor PC, but it's kind of 0:02:11.200 --> 0:02:13.880 positioned almost like a console at least in terms of 0:02:15.000 --> 0:02:17.280 sizing the intent to be used with a TV or 0:02:17.320 --> 0:02:19.200 in a living room, although it could be used ask top. 0:02:20.080 --> 0:02:24.160 But instead of being a more closed down console, it 0:02:24.240 --> 0:02:27.320 has the openness of a PC in terms of you 0:02:27.360 --> 0:02:30.320 have access to bios and things like that. Some modularity 0:02:30.320 --> 0:02:34.959 of components, and it's running on Linux, it's running on 0:02:35.040 --> 0:02:39.680 Steam oass And so right now we've had some hands 0:02:39.720 --> 0:02:42.000 on time, we had interviews with the engineers, we have 0:02:42.040 --> 0:02:44.720 the specs, haven't tested it yet, you know, can't make 0:02:44.760 --> 0:02:46.520 any value judgments or anything at the time because they 0:02:46.520 --> 0:02:50.519 haven't even given us a price. But it does there's 0:02:50.560 --> 0:02:53.079 some cool things. I think that regardless of how their 0:02:53.160 --> 0:02:55.760 launch goes with the Steam Machine, it is in the 0:02:55.880 --> 0:03:01.120 very least very promising for Linux, which helps to maybe 0:03:01.400 --> 0:03:04.080 get people unstuck from Microsoft. 0:03:04.280 --> 0:03:07.880 So yeah, so what makes this thing unique though? Is 0:03:07.919 --> 0:03:10.720 it just like a because Steam for those listening who 0:03:10.720 --> 0:03:13.840 don't know, Steam is a it is not really a monopoly, 0:03:13.919 --> 0:03:17.360 but it's like the best way to download games and 0:03:17.520 --> 0:03:19.799 keep track of them, I would say, But it does 0:03:19.880 --> 0:03:24.120 also involve paying one company. Yeah, but is that really? 0:03:24.840 --> 0:03:27.799 Is it just a big PC? Is because you've you've 0:03:27.800 --> 0:03:29.720 at least messed with it a little. 0:03:29.440 --> 0:03:35.280 Bit, Yeah, I mean it's it is still I I 0:03:35.320 --> 0:03:39.040 think it still qualifies as sort of just a computer. 0:03:39.320 --> 0:03:43.280 But really what they're doing is I guess in the 0:03:43.280 --> 0:03:46.640 same way that some handheld devices are technically computers. I 0:03:46.680 --> 0:03:49.600 mean a lot of the modern handheld gaming we'll call 0:03:49.640 --> 0:03:53.720 them consoles are actually just handheld PCs some of them, right, 0:03:53.920 --> 0:03:56.560 A lot of them have windows on them even, And 0:03:56.600 --> 0:03:59.880 so it's that concept except applied to a cube. That 0:04:00.640 --> 0:04:02.920 I mean, people have been jokingly I don't know who 0:04:02.960 --> 0:04:05.320 coined this, and I wish I did, but people have 0:04:05.360 --> 0:04:09.200 been jo jokingly referring to the Steam Machine as the 0:04:09.400 --> 0:04:13.320 Gabe Cube, as in Gabe knowell the CEO valve. That's 0:04:13.440 --> 0:04:16.800 really good. Yeah, I saw that. I was like, God, 0:04:16.880 --> 0:04:18.520 damn it, I wish I thought of that first. 0:04:18.960 --> 0:04:21.520 That's a bang of well so is it? 0:04:21.800 --> 0:04:21.880 So? 0:04:22.040 --> 0:04:25.279 Is it the is it like a kind of consumer friendly? U? Why? 0:04:25.560 --> 0:04:27.960 Like have you how much have you had? How much 0:04:27.960 --> 0:04:29.160 of a chance we had to play with it? 0:04:29.960 --> 0:04:33.080 H we had in total, I think it was about 0:04:33.279 --> 0:04:37.560 five or maybe six hours with valve and so in 0:04:37.640 --> 0:04:40.359 that time we were able to speak with engineers and you know, 0:04:40.400 --> 0:04:43.320 mess around with it. So, yeah, it's a steam O 0:04:43.400 --> 0:04:45.320 ass which is on the Steam Deck. So the Steam 0:04:45.360 --> 0:04:49.640 Deck is a gaming handheld device that. Uh, these have 0:04:49.720 --> 0:04:52.720 existed for a long time, but the deck was kind 0:04:52.760 --> 0:04:55.960 of the first one in recent years to really breathe 0:04:56.000 --> 0:05:00.680 life into the gaming handheld market. Outside of Nintendo. And 0:05:02.240 --> 0:05:04.760 that's not necessarily because everyone bought the deck, but it's 0:05:04.800 --> 0:05:08.400 because all the other manufacturers saw like, oh this is real, 0:05:08.520 --> 0:05:11.960 Like Steam is a serious venue, you know, to move 0:05:12.040 --> 0:05:15.640 games and people will buy stuff, and so Asus and 0:05:15.880 --> 0:05:18.560 Lenovo and all the other competitors jumped in. So the 0:05:18.560 --> 0:05:22.360 Steam Machine is building on that because the Steam Deck 0:05:22.600 --> 0:05:27.320 uses Steam os, which is an arch Linux based distribution, 0:05:28.320 --> 0:05:34.159 and it has a lot of optimizations that solve long 0:05:34.240 --> 0:05:37.760 running problems with Linux and gaming in general. So that 0:05:37.800 --> 0:05:41.880 would include, for example, translation layers and things like this. 0:05:42.680 --> 0:05:45.000 So they build on that and then yeah, as far 0:05:45.040 --> 0:05:49.320 as the user experience goes, it is a basically a 0:05:49.360 --> 0:05:52.080 sort of big picture mode or desktop mode, you know, 0:05:52.160 --> 0:05:55.080 operating system, but it's computer. It's just you kind of 0:05:55.160 --> 0:05:57.440 navigate it more like a console. I guess, did you 0:05:57.480 --> 0:05:59.880 play it a tool only a little bit? Yeah, we 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:03.680 tested the new Steam controller. What yet? 0:06:04.640 --> 0:06:07.520 Talk to me about how does that feel in your hand? 0:06:07.560 --> 0:06:10.680 Because I'm I have peculiarly hands myself, and that thing 0:06:10.720 --> 0:06:13.240 looks straight. It's got like two little touch screens at 0:06:13.240 --> 0:06:13.480 the bat. 0:06:15.080 --> 0:06:18.520 Yeah, it is large, it's so the two it's basically 0:06:18.560 --> 0:06:24.440 a uh you know, yeah, touch touch pads track pads. 0:06:24.520 --> 0:06:28.880 So it's got two track pads and they function like 0:06:28.880 --> 0:06:31.680 like a laptop track pad, except there's haptics and things 0:06:31.720 --> 0:06:33.599 like that. There's a gyro and. 0:06:34.000 --> 0:06:36.599 Like buzzes kind of like kind of like you get 0:06:36.600 --> 0:06:38.520 on the switch as well. Yeah. 0:06:38.839 --> 0:06:41.520 Yeah, yeah, you'll get like the haptic feedback like you'd get, 0:06:41.560 --> 0:06:48.839 you know, a phone, and yeah, so controllers to me, 0:06:49.440 --> 0:06:53.159 it's interesting and it's cool that they're trying it again. 0:06:53.200 --> 0:06:55.960 They last tried a controller something around a decade ago, 0:06:56.440 --> 0:06:57.560 and it went. 0:06:57.440 --> 0:07:01.040 With the Steam the Steam the thing that could mirror 0:07:01.080 --> 0:07:03.719 your Steam PC, right. 0:07:03.800 --> 0:07:07.440 Yeah, they had the Steam Link the controller, yes, yeah, 0:07:07.440 --> 0:07:09.160 and I think there was like one more thing in 0:07:09.160 --> 0:07:11.080 that sort of round of hard where I don't really 0:07:11.080 --> 0:07:15.040 remember it, maybe the Steam boxes. But yeah, so the 0:07:15.240 --> 0:07:18.160 original Steam controller, I guess went so well that they 0:07:18.200 --> 0:07:22.040 had to stump them on fire sale for five dollars each. Uh, 0:07:22.200 --> 0:07:24.440 and they have memory hold it by releasing a new 0:07:24.480 --> 0:07:25.760 Steam controller with the same name. 0:07:26.880 --> 0:07:28.960 But how did it feel? Was it? How does it 0:07:29.000 --> 0:07:32.400 feel in comparison to like a first generation Xbox controller? 0:07:33.480 --> 0:07:40.200 Yeah, the first Xbox was It's probably I think the 0:07:40.320 --> 0:07:43.280 Xbox controllers are probably regarded as one of the sort 0:07:43.320 --> 0:07:49.440 of most you know, user friendly layout. It's hard for 0:07:49.480 --> 0:07:51.880 me to say too much. The stuff that I tested 0:07:51.880 --> 0:07:53.720 with it and the limited time we had with it 0:07:53.840 --> 0:07:57.560 was related to some of the more unique inputs. So 0:07:57.600 --> 0:08:01.200 I will say it is a little larger, but. 0:08:02.560 --> 0:08:05.400 Larger than the original Xbox controller or like loger than 0:08:05.440 --> 0:08:06.520 like an Xbox three six. 0:08:06.520 --> 0:08:10.840 Day, larger than larger than a more modern Yeah, Xbox controller, 0:08:10.840 --> 0:08:13.080 I would have to put it next to the original. 0:08:12.640 --> 0:08:15.040 But that's an idea for the future. 0:08:15.280 --> 0:08:18.119 Yeah, but the some of the interesting inputs, I guess. 0:08:18.240 --> 0:08:24.200 So there's a grip sense where when you if it's enabled, 0:08:24.200 --> 0:08:27.240 when you let your fingers off of the grip, so 0:08:27.240 --> 0:08:29.200 you're still holding it, but you're not like tapping your 0:08:29.200 --> 0:08:33.439 fingertips to the actual grip of the controller. It'll detect 0:08:33.440 --> 0:08:38.160 that and it can use that to stop input. So 0:08:38.240 --> 0:08:40.880 you can rotate. You know, it's got a gyro you 0:08:40.920 --> 0:08:42.960 can rotate to turn in the game if you want, 0:08:43.000 --> 0:08:45.520 and then you can basically lift your fingers off if 0:08:45.559 --> 0:08:49.880 you want to stop or kind of stutter step the 0:08:49.960 --> 0:08:52.440 rotation as you move. And so it's got it's got 0:08:52.440 --> 0:08:56.400 some like clever execution of input. It feels like it 0:08:56.440 --> 0:08:58.920 takes some inspiration maybe from things like the switch and 0:08:58.920 --> 0:09:03.920 stuff like that. Yeah, and and this is important. Not 0:09:04.240 --> 0:09:08.840 a single time, literally, not even once, did at any 0:09:08.880 --> 0:09:13.000 point anybody from Valve say AI in that. 0:09:13.080 --> 0:09:17.800 Order of letters magnific, thank god, not once. 0:09:18.120 --> 0:09:18.760 Not once? 0:09:19.200 --> 0:09:24.040 How delightful. Oh god, it's just building a real thing. 0:09:24.559 --> 0:09:26.600 How do you feel about this? So I was talking 0:09:26.600 --> 0:09:28.760 to Mike kase Kagawa, friend of the show, about this, 0:09:28.840 --> 0:09:31.400 and he kind of put the thought my head, this 0:09:31.520 --> 0:09:36.040 could be a quite dangerous like this could be quite 0:09:36.120 --> 0:09:39.520 dangerous to Xbox, especially because Microsoft is kind of just 0:09:39.559 --> 0:09:42.120 sitting there and letting that fester at times. 0:09:43.080 --> 0:09:48.480 Yeah, I think this is probably the absolute best time 0:09:48.520 --> 0:09:52.360 for anybody new to try and get into like console 0:09:52.440 --> 0:09:56.640 or console equivalent type devices, and in particular, I mean, 0:09:56.720 --> 0:10:00.400 Valve is a deadly combination with it. But Xbox is 0:10:00.440 --> 0:10:04.280 kind of at the lowest of its lows. You know, 0:10:04.360 --> 0:10:08.920 they just they they can't seem to stop fucking everything up, 0:10:09.240 --> 0:10:13.480 and their best new thing they have is just a 0:10:13.520 --> 0:10:18.560 rebranded ACE who's rog ally handheld, and like that's doing 0:10:18.600 --> 0:10:23.560 well for asues, but by Microsoft numbers historically, it's not impressive. 0:10:24.240 --> 0:10:27.679 And so yeah, I think Microsoft right now it's they're 0:10:27.720 --> 0:10:30.880 in a compromise position. Their sales are awful. I don't 0:10:30.880 --> 0:10:33.040 have the numbers off hand, but they're they're easy to find, 0:10:33.240 --> 0:10:35.920 and uh, they're just not even close to what PlayStation's 0:10:35.920 --> 0:10:39.920 been doing. They're losing control of the market, and it 0:10:40.080 --> 0:10:41.720 just looks like they're kind of going the route of 0:10:41.760 --> 0:10:46.840 Sega right now, where cea, yeah, Sega abandoned consoles freder 0:10:46.880 --> 0:10:49.439 who doesn't know, and they went full on game publisher 0:10:50.160 --> 0:10:51.920 and so yeah, I mean I agree. I think the 0:10:51.960 --> 0:10:55.240 Steam or Valve is in a position right now where 0:10:57.679 --> 0:11:01.840 this is before a new console launched cycle from the 0:11:01.840 --> 0:11:06.840 the incumbent, and it's when Microsoft's had its weakest with Xbox. 0:11:06.880 --> 0:11:08.120 So it's really good timing for them. 0:11:08.679 --> 0:11:12.320 Well, I don't know what you're saying. Microsoft can't innovate 0:11:12.400 --> 0:11:15.480 any further because they're reading this note twenty fourth of 0:11:15.520 --> 0:11:19.120 November and I read this, Xbox prices could go even higher. 0:11:20.040 --> 0:11:23.760 Grand short, yes, they seem to be doing it. It 0:11:23.840 --> 0:11:26.400 is really funny to just follow the Steam machine with 0:11:26.480 --> 0:11:30.760 that as well, just being just being like, hey, guess what, 0:11:31.080 --> 0:11:33.360 it was more expensive and it sucks more. Do you 0:11:33.520 --> 0:11:34.800 like it, please God. 0:11:35.120 --> 0:11:37.600 But and the Xbox has been out for like a 0:11:37.760 --> 0:11:40.360 long ast time now, I don't remember when, it might 0:11:40.400 --> 0:11:43.600 be like five years already or something. The prices are 0:11:43.600 --> 0:11:45.360 supposed to come down, and I know, like some of 0:11:45.400 --> 0:11:48.640 these are whatever marketfacturers they can't exactly control. Although even 0:11:48.679 --> 0:11:50.840 though Microsoft does kind of have a big part in 0:11:50.880 --> 0:11:52.640 the AI thing that's making the prices go up, but 0:11:52.640 --> 0:11:56.680 we'll forget about that. Yeah, there's stuff they can't control, 0:11:57.000 --> 0:12:00.840 but even still, like consumers aren't could have want to 0:12:01.000 --> 0:12:03.040 pay more for a thing that is now ancient. 0:12:13.960 --> 0:12:16.040 It just kind of it feels like they've been spinning 0:12:16.080 --> 0:12:18.400 their wheels for the longest time because it felt like 0:12:18.520 --> 0:12:21.600 they were sort of moving away from Xbox by leaning 0:12:21.640 --> 0:12:25.360 on Game Pass. Then it turned out giving everyone access 0:12:25.400 --> 0:12:28.200 to as many games as possible for thirty dollars was 0:12:28.240 --> 0:12:32.760 not a good decision. So now that they want to 0:12:32.800 --> 0:12:36.040 do something, it just it does. I hadn't thought the 0:12:36.080 --> 0:12:38.760 Saga comparison, but it really does feel like that, like 0:12:38.800 --> 0:12:40.160 Microsoft won't die, but. 0:12:41.040 --> 0:12:44.920 Jesus, I mean, they're fortunate, I guess to have their 0:12:45.360 --> 0:12:49.960 spying division with Windows, so yeah, they'll be fine. I 0:12:49.960 --> 0:12:51.280 guess at. 0:12:51.160 --> 0:12:54.040 Their ad revenue they get from installs of Windows on 0:12:54.120 --> 0:12:56.760 laptops that take ten minutes to turn on exactly. 0:12:56.960 --> 0:13:00.600 Yeah, yeah, no, that'll keep them in business. Maybe better 0:13:00.640 --> 0:13:05.280 than what Sega had when it left hardware. But yeah, no, 0:13:05.360 --> 0:13:07.640 they're they're at a bad spot for Xbox. I'm not 0:13:07.679 --> 0:13:10.080 really sure what the plan is over there, and it 0:13:10.120 --> 0:13:11.480 doesn't seem like they're sure either. 0:13:11.640 --> 0:13:15.160 So I had a specific Steam Machine question, So what's 0:13:15.200 --> 0:13:18.240 it doing GPU wise? Like, is it doing? Is it 0:13:18.280 --> 0:13:20.480 doing like one of the amd ones with both the 0:13:20.559 --> 0:13:22.600 GPU and CPO in the same diet, Like what what 0:13:22.720 --> 0:13:23.640 is the situation there? 0:13:24.000 --> 0:13:29.200 It is? So for the Silicon, the short answer to 0:13:29.240 --> 0:13:32.240 that question is it's an rDNA three GPU with twenty 0:13:32.280 --> 0:13:34.160 eight CUS and I'll kind of loop back to that. 0:13:34.240 --> 0:13:39.480 But the Silicon in general, the CPU and the GPU 0:13:39.640 --> 0:13:45.160 are the only uh non modular, sort of normal components 0:13:45.160 --> 0:13:47.200 that you might swap in a computer, so meaning you 0:13:47.240 --> 0:13:49.360 can't change the CPU or the GPUs. This is a 0:13:49.360 --> 0:13:54.440 big split from a normal computer. They're using BGA parts 0:13:54.520 --> 0:13:58.720 ballgrid array, so they're soldered to the board and that 0:13:58.800 --> 0:14:00.679 makes it more like a laptop. In fact, they are 0:14:00.720 --> 0:14:06.040 basically laptop parts. They're semi custom laptop CPU and GPU 0:14:06.160 --> 0:14:11.120 that are discreete and the Yeah, the GPU so rDNA 0:14:11.200 --> 0:14:15.240 three twenty eight cus. That makes it a little bit 0:14:15.320 --> 0:14:19.920 smaller than an R seventy six hundred as an example, 0:14:20.240 --> 0:14:21.640 off the top of my head, I think that's thirty 0:14:21.640 --> 0:14:28.560 two CUS. And the CPU is a zen four part 0:14:28.680 --> 0:14:32.760 it's six cores, twelve threads. Their maximum advertised boost is 0:14:32.800 --> 0:14:35.840 four point eight gigahertz and they claim a thirty watt 0:14:36.040 --> 0:14:39.040 TDP and so for reference, I mean some of the. 0:14:39.040 --> 0:14:42.920 Other how is that compared to like a gaming handheld exactly. 0:14:42.840 --> 0:14:45.960 Well, gaming handheld, it's yeah, it's higher power than a 0:14:46.000 --> 0:14:48.480 gaming handheld for sure, So it is it is better 0:14:48.520 --> 0:14:51.880 than that. You have the benefit of not worrying about 0:14:51.880 --> 0:14:54.280 a battery and not worrying about skin temperature on the 0:14:54.320 --> 0:14:58.640 device because not holding it, and so for those reasons, 0:14:58.680 --> 0:15:00.280 they can run more power. So I think they're in 0:15:00.360 --> 0:15:04.080 total somewhere around one hundred and ten watts for the 0:15:04.120 --> 0:15:08.440 GPU and then a thirty watt claim for the CPU. 0:15:08.680 --> 0:15:11.400 So you know, with with other miscellaneous devices and with 0:15:11.400 --> 0:15:14.320 inefficiencies and whatever, you maybe call it two hundred watts, 0:15:14.400 --> 0:15:17.880 and I think the power supplies three hundred watts and 0:15:18.320 --> 0:15:22.280 so compared to a handheld, I mean that at peak 0:15:22.440 --> 0:15:26.160 power consumption, which you're not normally at, this is significantly 0:15:26.200 --> 0:15:31.480 more power and will perform I mean, significantly better. It's 0:15:31.480 --> 0:15:32.200 a big difference. 0:15:32.960 --> 0:15:35.440 Kind of it almost feels inevitable as well, because the 0:15:35.440 --> 0:15:38.800 fall of Microsoft. Sure, it's that they don't give a 0:15:38.840 --> 0:15:41.400 shit and don't see me trying in any way imaginable, 0:15:41.680 --> 0:15:44.960 but it's also at some point we were going to 0:15:45.000 --> 0:15:48.600 meet we're going to reach peak console. Surely at some 0:15:48.680 --> 0:15:51.120 point there's just how much more can we do with this? 0:15:51.960 --> 0:15:55.160 Yeah? I think, and you can. This gets into like 0:15:55.200 --> 0:15:57.760 a broader interesting topic I've been thinking about lately too, 0:15:57.800 --> 0:16:04.000 but which is for gaming in general. You know, you 0:16:04.600 --> 0:16:08.320 do hit a point where it's like, okay, the graphics 0:16:08.320 --> 0:16:12.000 are sufficient, and actually, now the kind of meta is, 0:16:12.160 --> 0:16:17.480 you know, more people are playing indie games that don't 0:16:17.520 --> 0:16:21.000 push the graphics to insane levels, and people are kind 0:16:21.000 --> 0:16:23.560 of rediscovering that, oh wait, I play video games to 0:16:23.600 --> 0:16:26.560 have fun and it doesn't need to be whoa, whoa, whoa. 0:16:26.720 --> 0:16:29.920 Yeah, what's that? I don't know, That's not why I play. 0:16:30.120 --> 0:16:31.480 I play games to get upset. 0:16:33.000 --> 0:16:36.200 Yes, yeah, well I have a game for you. I 0:16:36.240 --> 0:16:40.600 need an investor right now. Actually it's AI company simulator. 0:16:40.680 --> 0:16:43.880 And that sounds more fun. 0:16:44.240 --> 0:16:47.600 Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's great. Uh yeah, No, I mean 0:16:47.640 --> 0:16:54.000 it's I think the the then with the on the 0:16:54.040 --> 0:16:54.880 gaming side. 0:16:55.520 --> 0:16:55.640 Uh. 0:16:56.840 --> 0:17:01.840 I think the Steam Machine on a technicality, like it's 0:17:01.880 --> 0:17:04.840 it's more powerful than a lot of hardware people have. 0:17:04.920 --> 0:17:09.080 I guess if you look at the Steam Survey, in reality, 0:17:09.320 --> 0:17:15.120 it's a low end modern computer. And I think they're 0:17:15.160 --> 0:17:18.080 probably going to be partly leaning on things like FSR 0:17:18.240 --> 0:17:22.400 upscaling to try and bridge the gap, the performance gap. 0:17:22.440 --> 0:17:24.399 I mean, one of the things they didn't say that 0:17:24.440 --> 0:17:27.000 I can remember when we were talking to them, but 0:17:27.080 --> 0:17:29.800 they did say on the spec sheet was that the 0:17:29.840 --> 0:17:37.200 Steam Machine supports four k sixty FPS with FSR, and. 0:17:37.640 --> 0:17:39.520 That's pretty good. And FSR is the one where they 0:17:39.600 --> 0:17:44.840 use AI but actual actual AI, real stuff. 0:17:44.600 --> 0:17:49.119 Actual machine learning, yeah, like actually does something. Yeah, And 0:17:49.160 --> 0:17:51.359 so like I wasn't too happy about that when I 0:17:51.400 --> 0:17:55.040 saw that on the spec sheet because like saying, factually, 0:17:55.040 --> 0:18:01.000 it's probably accurate because it says with FSR there, but 0:18:01.040 --> 0:18:03.199 that's it has to always be there. They can't just 0:18:03.200 --> 0:18:06.040 say four k sixty because there's a big difference, and 0:18:06.080 --> 0:18:08.800 this hardware cannot do four K sixty without some kind 0:18:08.800 --> 0:18:12.200 of crutch, which FSR would be. But a point being, 0:18:12.200 --> 0:18:14.320 you know, it's a low end computer. They say it's 0:18:14.320 --> 0:18:16.920 gonna be priced like a an entry level gaming PC. 0:18:17.480 --> 0:18:20.320 I don't know what that means anything. 0:18:21.080 --> 0:18:24.720 Yeah, that could mean literally could colost seven million, Like what. 0:18:24.640 --> 0:18:28.280 The Yeah, it's a big range. I mean it's you know, 0:18:29.160 --> 0:18:33.200 in the old days like twenty, I don't know, twelve 0:18:33.280 --> 0:18:36.280 to sixteen. Maybe you could build a super low NPC 0:18:36.440 --> 0:18:39.840 for four hundred and fifty bucks. More realistically probably five 0:18:39.920 --> 0:18:44.000 hundred and fifty. That's kind of gone now, so so 0:18:44.160 --> 0:18:47.760 I think they'll have some pricing. The biggest concern is, 0:18:47.800 --> 0:18:52.440 for sure price, but at a hardware level. Really, I 0:18:52.480 --> 0:18:55.639 think the big story is the Linux side and then 0:18:55.680 --> 0:18:58.680 what you're saying the Microsoft side, where it's like, is 0:18:58.720 --> 0:19:01.960 this just kind of twisting the death agger on Xbox? 0:19:02.880 --> 0:19:07.000 I hope so, because Microsoft sucks, and the thing is 0:19:07.200 --> 0:19:10.720 PC gaming is cool, like it's the one, like it's 0:19:10.720 --> 0:19:12.320 one of the great things about it in that there's 0:19:12.359 --> 0:19:17.200 such a great indie gaming gaming industry, and I feel 0:19:17.200 --> 0:19:20.119 like Steam is though imperfect, is a great way to 0:19:20.160 --> 0:19:22.080 get into that in a way that I don't feel 0:19:22.080 --> 0:19:23.240 like the big consoles are. 0:19:24.280 --> 0:19:27.520 Yeah, it's just indie games are kind of like the 0:19:27.560 --> 0:19:30.200 lifeblood of it now. I feel like there's so much 0:19:30.880 --> 0:19:34.360 character in them, and they're very accessible in terms of 0:19:35.160 --> 0:19:40.560 often priced but also not being overbearing on systems, you know, requirements. 0:19:41.080 --> 0:19:44.159 My favorite game of this year was Dead Zone Rogue. 0:19:44.320 --> 0:19:47.560 If you have played that, I have not, but it's 0:19:47.600 --> 0:19:51.479 a roguelike. It feels like the and I realized there 0:19:51.480 --> 0:19:53.959 are numerous other sufferers who listen to this may not 0:19:54.040 --> 0:19:56.520 understand what I mean. It feels like when Destiny was 0:19:56.560 --> 0:20:00.399 fun in the single player. It has that kind of 0:20:00.520 --> 0:20:04.040 very clicky, very It's just very satisfying game. Indie game, 0:20:04.119 --> 0:20:05.920 never heard of the developers, don't know if they've ever 0:20:05.960 --> 0:20:09.959 made anything before. Fantastic game. I haven't enjoyed any Triple 0:20:10.000 --> 0:20:12.920 A that much. I unless you consider Hades two, which 0:20:12.960 --> 0:20:14.040 I'm not sure that counts. 0:20:14.280 --> 0:20:16.399 I feel like that doesn't really count, you know, like 0:20:16.480 --> 0:20:20.000 it's yeah, I feel like that. That to me still 0:20:20.000 --> 0:20:24.159 feels like sort of the smaller yeah side of things. Yeah, 0:20:24.680 --> 0:20:27.520 and yeah, there's a big market there, and I think 0:20:28.920 --> 0:20:33.120 I do think that big picture for some of these companies. 0:20:33.200 --> 0:20:35.879 I was about to say gaming companies, referring to you know, 0:20:36.000 --> 0:20:37.679 Nvidio and tel AMD, but that's not really what they 0:20:37.680 --> 0:20:45.280 are anymore. But look at these companies. I'm happy to 0:20:45.320 --> 0:20:47.760 see some of the success of indie games, and I'm 0:20:47.840 --> 0:20:50.960 happy to see things like a Steam machine in terms 0:20:51.000 --> 0:20:53.160 of hardware being capable of playing most of the games 0:20:53.160 --> 0:20:59.640 people play. Because specifically, you know, on the cynical side, 0:21:00.080 --> 0:21:03.880 if you sell GPUs for playing games and the graphics 0:21:03.920 --> 0:21:05.920 have kind of peaked for a while and it might 0:21:05.920 --> 0:21:08.399 take a few more years to really reach another major 0:21:08.440 --> 0:21:13.080 peak where uh, it's it's invalidating older hardware to a 0:21:13.160 --> 0:21:15.520 point where people feel forced to buy something new to 0:21:15.600 --> 0:21:18.479 keep the flow of money going for the companies. In 0:21:18.520 --> 0:21:21.840 that situation, you know, cynically, it would feel like you 0:21:21.840 --> 0:21:25.080 would need to invent a problem to solve so that 0:21:25.119 --> 0:21:28.200 people will buy your next GPU to play games, unless 0:21:28.240 --> 0:21:32.240 you can generate sort of escape velocity from the gaming 0:21:32.320 --> 0:21:35.439 side and get into some other business, which right now 0:21:35.520 --> 0:21:37.880 appears to be AI data center. You know, they don't 0:21:37.880 --> 0:21:40.400 need to invent problems to solve for gaming, because they're 0:21:40.440 --> 0:21:41.280 doing that for. 0:21:41.280 --> 0:21:45.880 Sort of invented one for the economy, right, but it's 0:21:46.240 --> 0:21:48.960 it's actually this is I feel like you've sliwd. This 0:21:49.040 --> 0:21:51.000 is just a question I had got to ask. You 0:21:51.040 --> 0:21:53.800 can't replace anything inside the Stay machine, it looks like. 0:21:54.280 --> 0:21:58.840 So you can do the RAM the which is yeah, 0:21:58.960 --> 0:22:02.640 the RAM is a so dim so it's laptop memory sticks. 0:22:03.119 --> 0:22:05.920 And then you can also do the SSD it sports 0:22:05.960 --> 0:22:07.760 up to I'm not too twenty two to eighty, which 0:22:07.800 --> 0:22:11.000 is the sort of standard larger form factor. Those would 0:22:11.000 --> 0:22:12.680 be the main ones I guess too. 0:22:12.840 --> 0:22:15.320 That can you hot drives for Are you going to 0:22:15.359 --> 0:22:17.399 be solid state though? Yeah? 0:22:17.520 --> 0:22:20.440 Yeah, solid state? And then it is very accessible. I 0:22:20.480 --> 0:22:25.159 mean it's it's easy to remove the cover and the 0:22:25.240 --> 0:22:27.200 heat sink if you wanted to, you could pull, you'd 0:22:27.200 --> 0:22:30.080 swap it. The fan is easy to swap and replace. 0:22:31.040 --> 0:22:34.240 The power supply has a blade connector, so it's sort 0:22:34.240 --> 0:22:39.680 of similar to server form factor styles where they don't 0:22:39.720 --> 0:22:42.520 use cables but they use just a connector. And so 0:22:42.560 --> 0:22:46.040 all of these things from a repair ability standpoint would 0:22:46.040 --> 0:22:49.280 in the very least be easy to repair and swap. 0:22:49.680 --> 0:22:51.880 Valve has a pretty good track record of making those 0:22:51.880 --> 0:22:54.199 parts available for the Steam Deck, so hopefully they'll do 0:22:54.240 --> 0:22:54.840