1 00:00:02,440 --> 00:00:03,520 Speaker 1: Also media. 2 00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:08,960 Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to Better Offline. I'm your host ed Zeitron, 3 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:22,720 Speaker 2: and i'd like to announce that, much like in video 4 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 2: revealed in a recent leaked memo, we are also nothing 5 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 2: like Enron. Today I'm joined by the wonderful Steve Burke 6 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 2: from Gamers Nexus, who's going to talk to you about 7 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 2: I know it's a thematic shift from the show about 8 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 2: something that actually exists, and we're talking about announcement from 9 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:39,400 Speaker 2: a few weeks ago from Valve about the Steam Frame 10 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:42,080 Speaker 2: headset and the Steam Machine console. Steve, thank you for 11 00:00:42,159 --> 00:00:43,600 Speaker 2: joining me, Thank you. 12 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:47,680 Speaker 1: For having me a quick question. What was that Enron thing? 13 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:49,600 Speaker 1: I think, yes, oh. 14 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:52,400 Speaker 2: This is this is important. So Nvidio had an internal 15 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:55,720 Speaker 2: memo that they put out and they said it's and 16 00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 2: the headline from Barons was I'm just going to pull 17 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 2: this up right now because it's one of my favorite 18 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 2: I've ever read. And video says it's not Enron in 19 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:08,319 Speaker 2: private memo refusing accounting questions. Ah, good stuff, that's Good's 20 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 2: that's what we want to hear. And they were like, 21 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:14,039 Speaker 2: we're nothing like Enron because we don't use SPVs to 22 00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:20,119 Speaker 2: inflate revenue. It's also good it's all real, Steve, It's. 23 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:22,760 Speaker 1: All very real. I'm starting to I'm starting to have 24 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 1: my doubts that the AI stuff has built on anything real. 25 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 1: Although I didn't hear about the two data centers that 26 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:34,160 Speaker 1: are currently sitting empty because the grid can't support them 27 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:37,120 Speaker 1: until twenty twenty eighth, which ones because it was in 28 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:38,399 Speaker 1: that northern California. 29 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:41,319 Speaker 2: Hell yeah, I love this. This is we live in 30 00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 2: the future. But genuinely, talk to me about the Steam Machine. 31 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:47,880 Speaker 2: What is this thing? It's like a games console, like, 32 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 2: walk me through it. 33 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I mean this stuff's actually it was a 34 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 1: really nice break from everything else because, like you said, 35 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 1: it's real. They're actually doing stuff. It's consumer facing, so 36 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 1: that's nice. There's some pretty some of these things have 37 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 1: cool innovations in them. So the Steam Machine is a 38 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:11,120 Speaker 1: small basically small form factor PC, but it's kind of 39 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 1: positioned almost like a console at least in terms of 40 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:17,280 Speaker 1: sizing the intent to be used with a TV or 41 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 1: in a living room, although it could be used ask top. 42 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 1: But instead of being a more closed down console, it 43 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 1: has the openness of a PC in terms of you 44 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 1: have access to bios and things like that. Some modularity 45 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:34,959 Speaker 1: of components, and it's running on Linux, it's running on 46 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:39,680 Speaker 1: Steam oass And so right now we've had some hands 47 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 1: on time, we had interviews with the engineers, we have 48 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:44,720 Speaker 1: the specs, haven't tested it yet, you know, can't make 49 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:46,520 Speaker 1: any value judgments or anything at the time because they 50 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:50,519 Speaker 1: haven't even given us a price. But it does there's 51 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:53,079 Speaker 1: some cool things. I think that regardless of how their 52 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 1: launch goes with the Steam Machine, it is in the 53 00:02:55,880 --> 00:03:01,120 Speaker 1: very least very promising for Linux, which helps to maybe 54 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:04,080 Speaker 1: get people unstuck from Microsoft. 55 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 2: So yeah, so what makes this thing unique though? Is 56 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 2: it just like a because Steam for those listening who 57 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:13,840 Speaker 2: don't know, Steam is a it is not really a monopoly, 58 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:17,360 Speaker 2: but it's like the best way to download games and 59 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:19,799 Speaker 2: keep track of them, I would say, But it does 60 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:24,120 Speaker 2: also involve paying one company. Yeah, but is that really? 61 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:27,799 Speaker 2: Is it just a big PC? Is because you've you've 62 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 2: at least messed with it a little. 63 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:35,280 Speaker 1: Bit, Yeah, I mean it's it is still I I 64 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 1: think it still qualifies as sort of just a computer. 65 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 1: But really what they're doing is I guess in the 66 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:46,640 Speaker 1: same way that some handheld devices are technically computers. I 67 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:49,600 Speaker 1: mean a lot of the modern handheld gaming we'll call 68 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:53,720 Speaker 1: them consoles are actually just handheld PCs some of them, right, 69 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 1: A lot of them have windows on them even, And 70 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 1: so it's that concept except applied to a cube. That 71 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:02,920 Speaker 1: I mean, people have been jokingly I don't know who 72 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 1: coined this, and I wish I did, but people have 73 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:09,200 Speaker 1: been jo jokingly referring to the Steam Machine as the 74 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 1: Gabe Cube, as in Gabe knowell the CEO valve. That's 75 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 1: really good. Yeah, I saw that. I was like, God, 76 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 1: damn it, I wish I thought of that first. 77 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:21,520 Speaker 2: That's a bang of well so is it? 78 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 1: So? 79 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:25,279 Speaker 2: Is it the is it like a kind of consumer friendly? U? Why? 80 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 2: Like have you how much have you had? How much 81 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:29,160 Speaker 2: of a chance we had to play with it? 82 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 1: H we had in total, I think it was about 83 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:37,560 Speaker 1: five or maybe six hours with valve and so in 84 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:40,359 Speaker 1: that time we were able to speak with engineers and you know, 85 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 1: mess around with it. So, yeah, it's a steam O 86 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 1: ass which is on the Steam Deck. So the Steam 87 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 1: Deck is a gaming handheld device that. Uh, these have 88 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:52,720 Speaker 1: existed for a long time, but the deck was kind 89 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 1: of the first one in recent years to really breathe 90 00:04:56,000 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 1: life into the gaming handheld market. Outside of Nintendo. And 91 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 1: that's not necessarily because everyone bought the deck, but it's 92 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:08,400 Speaker 1: because all the other manufacturers saw like, oh this is real, 93 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 1: Like Steam is a serious venue, you know, to move 94 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:15,640 Speaker 1: games and people will buy stuff, and so Asus and 95 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 1: Lenovo and all the other competitors jumped in. So the 96 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:22,360 Speaker 1: Steam Machine is building on that because the Steam Deck 97 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:27,320 Speaker 1: uses Steam os, which is an arch Linux based distribution, 98 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:34,159 Speaker 1: and it has a lot of optimizations that solve long 99 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:37,760 Speaker 1: running problems with Linux and gaming in general. So that 100 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 1: would include, for example, translation layers and things like this. 101 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 1: So they build on that and then yeah, as far 102 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 1: as the user experience goes, it is a basically a 103 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 1: sort of big picture mode or desktop mode, you know, 104 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 1: operating system, but it's computer. It's just you kind of 105 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:57,440 Speaker 1: navigate it more like a console. I guess, did you 106 00:05:57,480 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 1: play it a tool only a little bit? Yeah, we 107 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:03,680 Speaker 1: tested the new Steam controller. What yet? 108 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:07,520 Speaker 2: Talk to me about how does that feel in your hand? 109 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 2: Because I'm I have peculiarly hands myself, and that thing 110 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:13,240 Speaker 2: looks straight. It's got like two little touch screens at 111 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:13,480 Speaker 2: the bat. 112 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, it is large, it's so the two it's basically 113 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 1: a uh you know, yeah, touch touch pads track pads. 114 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:28,880 Speaker 1: So it's got two track pads and they function like 115 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:31,680 Speaker 1: like a laptop track pad, except there's haptics and things 116 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:33,599 Speaker 1: like that. There's a gyro and. 117 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:36,599 Speaker 2: Like buzzes kind of like kind of like you get 118 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:38,520 Speaker 2: on the switch as well. Yeah. 119 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:41,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you'll get like the haptic feedback like you'd get, 120 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:48,839 Speaker 1: you know, a phone, and yeah, so controllers to me, 121 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:53,159 Speaker 1: it's interesting and it's cool that they're trying it again. 122 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 1: They last tried a controller something around a decade ago, 123 00:06:56,440 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 1: and it went. 124 00:06:57,440 --> 00:07:01,040 Speaker 2: With the Steam the Steam the thing that could mirror 125 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:03,719 Speaker 2: your Steam PC, right. 126 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:07,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, they had the Steam Link the controller, yes, yeah, 127 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:09,160 Speaker 1: and I think there was like one more thing in 128 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 1: that sort of round of hard where I don't really 129 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 1: remember it, maybe the Steam boxes. But yeah, so the 130 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:18,160 Speaker 1: original Steam controller, I guess went so well that they 131 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 1: had to stump them on fire sale for five dollars each. Uh, 132 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 1: and they have memory hold it by releasing a new 133 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 1: Steam controller with the same name. 134 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:28,960 Speaker 2: But how did it feel? Was it? How does it 135 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 2: feel in comparison to like a first generation Xbox controller? 136 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, the first Xbox was It's probably I think the 137 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 1: Xbox controllers are probably regarded as one of the sort 138 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 1: of most you know, user friendly layout. It's hard for 139 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:51,880 Speaker 1: me to say too much. The stuff that I tested 140 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 1: with it and the limited time we had with it 141 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:57,560 Speaker 1: was related to some of the more unique inputs. So 142 00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 1: I will say it is a little larger, but. 143 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 2: Larger than the original Xbox controller or like loger than 144 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:06,520 Speaker 2: like an Xbox three six. 145 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 1: Day, larger than larger than a more modern Yeah, Xbox controller, 146 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:13,080 Speaker 1: I would have to put it next to the original. 147 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:15,040 Speaker 2: But that's an idea for the future. 148 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:18,119 Speaker 1: Yeah, but the some of the interesting inputs, I guess. 149 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 1: So there's a grip sense where when you if it's enabled, 150 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 1: when you let your fingers off of the grip, so 151 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 1: you're still holding it, but you're not like tapping your 152 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:33,439 Speaker 1: fingertips to the actual grip of the controller. It'll detect 153 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:38,160 Speaker 1: that and it can use that to stop input. So 154 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:40,880 Speaker 1: you can rotate. You know, it's got a gyro you 155 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:42,960 Speaker 1: can rotate to turn in the game if you want, 156 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:45,520 Speaker 1: and then you can basically lift your fingers off if 157 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 1: you want to stop or kind of stutter step the 158 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:52,440 Speaker 1: rotation as you move. And so it's got it's got 159 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 1: some like clever execution of input. It feels like it 160 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 1: takes some inspiration maybe from things like the switch and 161 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:03,920 Speaker 1: stuff like that. Yeah, and and this is important. Not 162 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:08,840 Speaker 1: a single time, literally, not even once, did at any 163 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:13,000 Speaker 1: point anybody from Valve say AI in that. 164 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:17,800 Speaker 2: Order of letters magnific, thank god, not once. 165 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:18,760 Speaker 1: Not once? 166 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 2: How delightful. Oh god, it's just building a real thing. 167 00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:26,600 Speaker 2: How do you feel about this? So I was talking 168 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:28,760 Speaker 2: to Mike kase Kagawa, friend of the show, about this, 169 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:31,400 Speaker 2: and he kind of put the thought my head, this 170 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:36,040 Speaker 2: could be a quite dangerous like this could be quite 171 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 2: dangerous to Xbox, especially because Microsoft is kind of just 172 00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:42,120 Speaker 2: sitting there and letting that fester at times. 173 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:48,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think this is probably the absolute best time 174 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:52,360 Speaker 1: for anybody new to try and get into like console 175 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:56,640 Speaker 1: or console equivalent type devices, and in particular, I mean, 176 00:09:56,720 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 1: Valve is a deadly combination with it. But Xbox is 177 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:04,280 Speaker 1: kind of at the lowest of its lows. You know, 178 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 1: they just they they can't seem to stop fucking everything up, 179 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 1: and their best new thing they have is just a 180 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:18,560 Speaker 1: rebranded ACE who's rog ally handheld, and like that's doing 181 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:23,560 Speaker 1: well for asues, but by Microsoft numbers historically, it's not impressive. 182 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:27,679 Speaker 1: And so yeah, I think Microsoft right now it's they're 183 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 1: in a compromise position. Their sales are awful. I don't 184 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:33,040 Speaker 1: have the numbers off hand, but they're they're easy to find, 185 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:35,920 Speaker 1: and uh, they're just not even close to what PlayStation's 186 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 1: been doing. They're losing control of the market, and it 187 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:41,720 Speaker 1: just looks like they're kind of going the route of 188 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:46,840 Speaker 1: Sega right now, where cea, yeah, Sega abandoned consoles freder 189 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:49,439 Speaker 1: who doesn't know, and they went full on game publisher 190 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:51,920 Speaker 1: and so yeah, I mean I agree. I think the 191 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 1: Steam or Valve is in a position right now where 192 00:10:57,679 --> 00:11:01,840 Speaker 1: this is before a new console launched cycle from the 193 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:06,840 Speaker 1: the incumbent, and it's when Microsoft's had its weakest with Xbox. 194 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:08,120 Speaker 1: So it's really good timing for them. 195 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:12,320 Speaker 2: Well, I don't know what you're saying. Microsoft can't innovate 196 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 2: any further because they're reading this note twenty fourth of 197 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:19,120 Speaker 2: November and I read this, Xbox prices could go even higher. 198 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:23,760 Speaker 2: Grand short, yes, they seem to be doing it. It 199 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:26,400 Speaker 2: is really funny to just follow the Steam machine with 200 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 2: that as well, just being just being like, hey, guess what, 201 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:33,360 Speaker 2: it was more expensive and it sucks more. Do you 202 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:34,800 Speaker 2: like it, please God. 203 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:37,600 Speaker 1: But and the Xbox has been out for like a 204 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:40,360 Speaker 1: long ast time now, I don't remember when, it might 205 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:43,600 Speaker 1: be like five years already or something. The prices are 206 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:45,360 Speaker 1: supposed to come down, and I know, like some of 207 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 1: these are whatever marketfacturers they can't exactly control. Although even 208 00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:50,840 Speaker 1: though Microsoft does kind of have a big part in 209 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:52,640 Speaker 1: the AI thing that's making the prices go up, but 210 00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:56,680 Speaker 1: we'll forget about that. Yeah, there's stuff they can't control, 211 00:11:57,000 --> 00:12:00,840 Speaker 1: but even still, like consumers aren't could have want to 212 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 1: pay more for a thing that is now ancient. 213 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:16,040 Speaker 2: It just kind of it feels like they've been spinning 214 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:18,400 Speaker 2: their wheels for the longest time because it felt like 215 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:21,600 Speaker 2: they were sort of moving away from Xbox by leaning 216 00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:25,360 Speaker 2: on Game Pass. Then it turned out giving everyone access 217 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:28,200 Speaker 2: to as many games as possible for thirty dollars was 218 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:32,760 Speaker 2: not a good decision. So now that they want to 219 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:36,040 Speaker 2: do something, it just it does. I hadn't thought the 220 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:38,760 Speaker 2: Saga comparison, but it really does feel like that, like 221 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:40,160 Speaker 2: Microsoft won't die, but. 222 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 1: Jesus, I mean, they're fortunate, I guess to have their 223 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:49,960 Speaker 1: spying division with Windows, so yeah, they'll be fine. I 224 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:51,280 Speaker 1: guess at. 225 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:54,040 Speaker 2: Their ad revenue they get from installs of Windows on 226 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:56,760 Speaker 2: laptops that take ten minutes to turn on exactly. 227 00:12:56,960 --> 00:13:00,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no, that'll keep them in business. Maybe better 228 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 1: than what Sega had when it left hardware. But yeah, no, 229 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:07,640 Speaker 1: they're they're at a bad spot for Xbox. I'm not 230 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:10,080 Speaker 1: really sure what the plan is over there, and it 231 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:11,480 Speaker 1: doesn't seem like they're sure either. 232 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:15,160 Speaker 2: So I had a specific Steam Machine question, So what's 233 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:18,240 Speaker 2: it doing GPU wise? Like, is it doing? Is it 234 00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:20,480 Speaker 2: doing like one of the amd ones with both the 235 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:22,600 Speaker 2: GPU and CPO in the same diet, Like what what 236 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:23,640 Speaker 2: is the situation there? 237 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:29,200 Speaker 1: It is? So for the Silicon, the short answer to 238 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:32,240 Speaker 1: that question is it's an rDNA three GPU with twenty 239 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 1: eight CUS and I'll kind of loop back to that. 240 00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 1: But the Silicon in general, the CPU and the GPU 241 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:45,160 Speaker 1: are the only uh non modular, sort of normal components 242 00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:47,200 Speaker 1: that you might swap in a computer, so meaning you 243 00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:49,360 Speaker 1: can't change the CPU or the GPUs. This is a 244 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:54,440 Speaker 1: big split from a normal computer. They're using BGA parts 245 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:58,720 Speaker 1: ballgrid array, so they're soldered to the board and that 246 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:00,679 Speaker 1: makes it more like a laptop. In fact, they are 247 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:06,040 Speaker 1: basically laptop parts. They're semi custom laptop CPU and GPU 248 00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:11,120 Speaker 1: that are discreete and the Yeah, the GPU so rDNA 249 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:15,240 Speaker 1: three twenty eight cus. That makes it a little bit 250 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:19,920 Speaker 1: smaller than an R seventy six hundred as an example, 251 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:21,640 Speaker 1: off the top of my head, I think that's thirty 252 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:28,560 Speaker 1: two CUS. And the CPU is a zen four part 253 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:32,760 Speaker 1: it's six cores, twelve threads. Their maximum advertised boost is 254 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 1: four point eight gigahertz and they claim a thirty watt 255 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:39,040 Speaker 1: TDP and so for reference, I mean some of the. 256 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:42,920 Speaker 2: Other how is that compared to like a gaming handheld exactly. 257 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:45,960 Speaker 1: Well, gaming handheld, it's yeah, it's higher power than a 258 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:48,480 Speaker 1: gaming handheld for sure, So it is it is better 259 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:51,880 Speaker 1: than that. You have the benefit of not worrying about 260 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:54,280 Speaker 1: a battery and not worrying about skin temperature on the 261 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:58,640 Speaker 1: device because not holding it, and so for those reasons, 262 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:00,280 Speaker 1: they can run more power. So I think they're in 263 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:04,080 Speaker 1: total somewhere around one hundred and ten watts for the 264 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:08,440 Speaker 1: GPU and then a thirty watt claim for the CPU. 265 00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:11,400 Speaker 1: So you know, with with other miscellaneous devices and with 266 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:14,320 Speaker 1: inefficiencies and whatever, you maybe call it two hundred watts, 267 00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:17,880 Speaker 1: and I think the power supplies three hundred watts and 268 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:22,280 Speaker 1: so compared to a handheld, I mean that at peak 269 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:26,160 Speaker 1: power consumption, which you're not normally at, this is significantly 270 00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 1: more power and will perform I mean, significantly better. It's 271 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:32,200 Speaker 1: a big difference. 272 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:35,440 Speaker 2: Kind of it almost feels inevitable as well, because the 273 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:38,800 Speaker 2: fall of Microsoft. Sure, it's that they don't give a 274 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:41,400 Speaker 2: shit and don't see me trying in any way imaginable, 275 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:44,960 Speaker 2: but it's also at some point we were going to 276 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 2: meet we're going to reach peak console. Surely at some 277 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:51,120 Speaker 2: point there's just how much more can we do with this? 278 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 1: Yeah? I think, and you can. This gets into like 279 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:57,760 Speaker 1: a broader interesting topic I've been thinking about lately too, 280 00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:04,000 Speaker 1: but which is for gaming in general. You know, you 281 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:08,320 Speaker 1: do hit a point where it's like, okay, the graphics 282 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:12,000 Speaker 1: are sufficient, and actually, now the kind of meta is, 283 00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:17,480 Speaker 1: you know, more people are playing indie games that don't 284 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:21,000 Speaker 1: push the graphics to insane levels, and people are kind 285 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:23,560 Speaker 1: of rediscovering that, oh wait, I play video games to 286 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:26,560 Speaker 1: have fun and it doesn't need to be whoa, whoa, whoa. 287 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, what's that? I don't know, That's not why I play. 288 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:31,480 Speaker 2: I play games to get upset. 289 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:36,200 Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, well I have a game for you. I 290 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 1: need an investor right now. Actually it's AI company simulator. 291 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:43,880 Speaker 2: And that sounds more fun. 292 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:47,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's great. Uh yeah, No, I mean 293 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:54,000 Speaker 1: it's I think the the then with the on the 294 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:54,880 Speaker 1: gaming side. 295 00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:55,640 Speaker 2: Uh. 296 00:16:56,840 --> 00:17:01,840 Speaker 1: I think the Steam Machine on a technicality, like it's 297 00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:04,840 Speaker 1: it's more powerful than a lot of hardware people have. 298 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:09,080 Speaker 1: I guess if you look at the Steam Survey, in reality, 299 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:15,120 Speaker 1: it's a low end modern computer. And I think they're 300 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:18,080 Speaker 1: probably going to be partly leaning on things like FSR 301 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:22,400 Speaker 1: upscaling to try and bridge the gap, the performance gap. 302 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:24,399 Speaker 1: I mean, one of the things they didn't say that 303 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 1: I can remember when we were talking to them, but 304 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:29,800 Speaker 1: they did say on the spec sheet was that the 305 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:37,200 Speaker 1: Steam Machine supports four k sixty FPS with FSR, and. 306 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:39,520 Speaker 2: That's pretty good. And FSR is the one where they 307 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:44,840 Speaker 2: use AI but actual actual AI, real stuff. 308 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:49,119 Speaker 1: Actual machine learning, yeah, like actually does something. Yeah, And 309 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:51,359 Speaker 1: so like I wasn't too happy about that when I 310 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:55,040 Speaker 1: saw that on the spec sheet because like saying, factually, 311 00:17:55,040 --> 00:18:01,000 Speaker 1: it's probably accurate because it says with FSR there, but 312 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:03,199 Speaker 1: that's it has to always be there. They can't just 313 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:06,040 Speaker 1: say four k sixty because there's a big difference, and 314 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:08,800 Speaker 1: this hardware cannot do four K sixty without some kind 315 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:12,200 Speaker 1: of crutch, which FSR would be. But a point being, 316 00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:14,320 Speaker 1: you know, it's a low end computer. They say it's 317 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:16,920 Speaker 1: gonna be priced like a an entry level gaming PC. 318 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:20,320 Speaker 1: I don't know what that means anything. 319 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:24,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, that could mean literally could colost seven million, Like what. 320 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:28,280 Speaker 1: The Yeah, it's a big range. I mean it's you know, 321 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:33,200 Speaker 1: in the old days like twenty, I don't know, twelve 322 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:36,280 Speaker 1: to sixteen. Maybe you could build a super low NPC 323 00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:39,840 Speaker 1: for four hundred and fifty bucks. More realistically probably five 324 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:44,000 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty. That's kind of gone now, so so 325 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:47,760 Speaker 1: I think they'll have some pricing. The biggest concern is, 326 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:52,440 Speaker 1: for sure price, but at a hardware level. Really, I 327 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:55,639 Speaker 1: think the big story is the Linux side and then 328 00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:58,680 Speaker 1: what you're saying the Microsoft side, where it's like, is 329 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:01,960 Speaker 1: this just kind of twisting the death agger on Xbox? 330 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 2: I hope so, because Microsoft sucks, and the thing is 331 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:10,720 Speaker 2: PC gaming is cool, like it's the one, like it's 332 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:12,320 Speaker 2: one of the great things about it in that there's 333 00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:17,200 Speaker 2: such a great indie gaming gaming industry, and I feel 334 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:20,119 Speaker 2: like Steam is though imperfect, is a great way to 335 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:22,080 Speaker 2: get into that in a way that I don't feel 336 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:23,240 Speaker 2: like the big consoles are. 337 00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just indie games are kind of like the 338 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:30,200 Speaker 1: lifeblood of it now. I feel like there's so much 339 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:34,360 Speaker 1: character in them, and they're very accessible in terms of 340 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:40,560 Speaker 1: often priced but also not being overbearing on systems, you know, requirements. 341 00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:44,159 Speaker 2: My favorite game of this year was Dead Zone Rogue. 342 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:47,560 Speaker 2: If you have played that, I have not, but it's 343 00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:51,479 Speaker 2: a roguelike. It feels like the and I realized there 344 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:53,959 Speaker 2: are numerous other sufferers who listen to this may not 345 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:56,520 Speaker 2: understand what I mean. It feels like when Destiny was 346 00:19:56,560 --> 00:20:00,399 Speaker 2: fun in the single player. It has that kind of 347 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:04,040 Speaker 2: very clicky, very It's just very satisfying game. Indie game, 348 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:05,920 Speaker 2: never heard of the developers, don't know if they've ever 349 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:09,959 Speaker 2: made anything before. Fantastic game. I haven't enjoyed any Triple 350 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:12,920 Speaker 2: A that much. I unless you consider Hades two, which 351 00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 2: I'm not sure that counts. 352 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:16,399 Speaker 1: I feel like that doesn't really count, you know, like 353 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:20,000 Speaker 1: it's yeah, I feel like that. That to me still 354 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:24,159 Speaker 1: feels like sort of the smaller yeah side of things. Yeah, 355 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:27,520 Speaker 1: and yeah, there's a big market there, and I think 356 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:33,120 Speaker 1: I do think that big picture for some of these companies. 357 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:35,879 Speaker 1: I was about to say gaming companies, referring to you know, 358 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:37,679 Speaker 1: Nvidio and tel AMD, but that's not really what they 359 00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 1: are anymore. But look at these companies. I'm happy to 360 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:47,760 Speaker 1: see some of the success of indie games, and I'm 361 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:50,960 Speaker 1: happy to see things like a Steam machine in terms 362 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:53,160 Speaker 1: of hardware being capable of playing most of the games 363 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:59,640 Speaker 1: people play. Because specifically, you know, on the cynical side, 364 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,880 Speaker 1: if you sell GPUs for playing games and the graphics 365 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:05,920 Speaker 1: have kind of peaked for a while and it might 366 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:08,399 Speaker 1: take a few more years to really reach another major 367 00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:13,080 Speaker 1: peak where uh, it's it's invalidating older hardware to a 368 00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:15,520 Speaker 1: point where people feel forced to buy something new to 369 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:18,479 Speaker 1: keep the flow of money going for the companies. In 370 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:21,840 Speaker 1: that situation, you know, cynically, it would feel like you 371 00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:25,080 Speaker 1: would need to invent a problem to solve so that 372 00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:28,200 Speaker 1: people will buy your next GPU to play games, unless 373 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:32,240 Speaker 1: you can generate sort of escape velocity from the gaming 374 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:35,439 Speaker 1: side and get into some other business, which right now 375 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:37,880 Speaker 1: appears to be AI data center. You know, they don't 376 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:40,400 Speaker 1: need to invent problems to solve for gaming, because they're 377 00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:41,280 Speaker 1: doing that for. 378 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:45,880 Speaker 2: Sort of invented one for the economy, right, but it's 379 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:48,960 Speaker 2: it's actually this is I feel like you've sliwd. This 380 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:51,000 Speaker 2: is just a question I had got to ask. You 381 00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:53,800 Speaker 2: can't replace anything inside the Stay machine, it looks like. 382 00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:58,840 Speaker 1: So you can do the RAM the which is yeah, 383 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:02,640 Speaker 1: the RAM is a so dim so it's laptop memory sticks. 384 00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:05,920 Speaker 1: And then you can also do the SSD it sports 385 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:07,760 Speaker 1: up to I'm not too twenty two to eighty, which 386 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:11,000 Speaker 1: is the sort of standard larger form factor. Those would 387 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:12,680 Speaker 1: be the main ones I guess too. 388 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:15,320 Speaker 2: That can you hot drives for Are you going to 389 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:17,399 Speaker 2: be solid state though? Yeah? 390 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:20,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, solid state? And then it is very accessible. I 391 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:25,159 Speaker 1: mean it's it's easy to remove the cover and the 392 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:27,200 Speaker 1: heat sink if you wanted to, you could pull, you'd 393 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:30,080 Speaker 1: swap it. The fan is easy to swap and replace. 394 00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:34,240 Speaker 1: The power supply has a blade connector, so it's sort 395 00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:39,680 Speaker 1: of similar to server form factor styles where they don't 396 00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:42,520 Speaker 1: use cables but they use just a connector. And so 397 00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:46,040 Speaker 1: all of these things from a repair ability standpoint would 398 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:49,280 Speaker 1: in the very least be easy to repair and swap. 399 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:51,880 Speaker 1: Valve has a pretty good track record of making those 400 00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:54,199 Speaker 1: parts available for the Steam Deck, so hopefully they'll do 401 00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 1: this good too? 402 00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:58,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, Jesus, I'm not used to companies not just immediately 403 00:22:58,640 --> 00:22:59,320 Speaker 2: being evil. 404 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:04,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean there's still time, there's oh yeah there it. 405 00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:07,880 Speaker 2: Could end up being twelve hundred dollars. Like that's that's 406 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:10,440 Speaker 2: where I could see them fucking this one up for me, right, 407 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:31,280 Speaker 2: talking of successful industries that everyone loves the steam Frame, Yeah, 408 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:33,480 Speaker 2: what is going? What is this meant to? Is it? 409 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:36,000 Speaker 2: Is it meant to be a vision pro situation? Is 410 00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:39,200 Speaker 2: it meant to be like the like? Like what was 411 00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:41,040 Speaker 2: the Valve Index? Like? What is it? 412 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:44,720 Speaker 1: Steam Frame is pretty interesting? So the steam Frame is 413 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:50,879 Speaker 1: a new VR headset from Valve. They launched the HTC 414 00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:55,040 Speaker 1: Vibe with obviously HTC a long time ago, now, uh, 415 00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:57,480 Speaker 1: and then later the Index and and then there was 416 00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:00,440 Speaker 1: Oculous Rifts that later turned into the Metaquest. So that's 417 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:03,040 Speaker 1: kind of the VR industry. It's really just these are 418 00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:06,440 Speaker 1: the big milestones. There's been a lot of other devices 419 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,119 Speaker 1: in between, but Valves jumping back into it with what 420 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:13,520 Speaker 1: they're calling the steam Frame. The steam Frame is pretty 421 00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:21,359 Speaker 1: interesting in that it both has standalone functionality with basically 422 00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:24,560 Speaker 1: an integrated we'll call it a compute unit that mounts 423 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:28,720 Speaker 1: to your face with the goggles. And then it's also 424 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:32,719 Speaker 1: got streaming capability where it streams content from an actual 425 00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:37,440 Speaker 1: gaming computer. And so Valve is here leveraging the fact 426 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:42,280 Speaker 1: that it has an unbelievably large library of games, probably 427 00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:45,639 Speaker 1: the largest ever to have existed, and the fact that 428 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:48,159 Speaker 1: most of its players probably have a decent gaming computer, 429 00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:52,200 Speaker 1: and so they can render the game content on their 430 00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 1: computer and then stream it to the headset. Basically you're 431 00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:01,240 Speaker 1: casting a video to the headset. Uh, so you're not 432 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:05,280 Speaker 1: rendering locally, and then that allows you to be tetherless 433 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:07,760 Speaker 1: and wireless from the computer, which solves a lot of 434 00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:11,880 Speaker 1: the problems this kind of r has had historically. But 435 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:16,920 Speaker 1: the new yes, yeah, so, but the new problem if 436 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:22,520 Speaker 1: you're doing this is anytime they're streaming, there's latency, right yeah, 437 00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:26,159 Speaker 1: And so the concern just becomes if I'm streaming this 438 00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:28,920 Speaker 1: from my computer instead of playing it with a wire 439 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:32,480 Speaker 1: plugged into the back of my headset. Uh am, I 440 00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:38,760 Speaker 1: going to notice that in actions and game and the 441 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:42,119 Speaker 1: cool part I think that maybe this technology could apply 442 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:46,840 Speaker 1: elsewhere in some capacity. Uh but is what they're calling 443 00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:52,600 Speaker 1: foviated streaming. And so yeah, so there's already a thing 444 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:59,280 Speaker 1: called boviated rendering, But basically the concept is UH to 445 00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:05,440 Speaker 1: preserve bandwidth and maximize sort of how much data you 446 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:10,919 Speaker 1: can get across without causing major latency issues, you know, 447 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:13,679 Speaker 1: to keep the frame rate high and everything else. What 448 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:18,280 Speaker 1: they're doing is they are targeting specific areas where the 449 00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:23,800 Speaker 1: eyes are tracked to be looking and then rendering those 450 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:27,840 Speaker 1: assigning basically the maximum amount of bits those areas. Yeah, 451 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:31,000 Speaker 1: and everything else gets a reduced bit rate in the 452 00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:36,399 Speaker 1: streaming uses less bandwidth and so it technically renders out 453 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:39,080 Speaker 1: a lower quality. But in the quick testing we did, 454 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:40,720 Speaker 1: you know, I only had a little bit of a 455 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:43,119 Speaker 1: hands on with it, but I couldn't tell. I mean, 456 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:45,520 Speaker 1: when I was when I was looking wherever I was 457 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:49,840 Speaker 1: looking in the headset, it looked full quality. And then 458 00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:52,800 Speaker 1: if I tried to, you know, quickly dart my eyes 459 00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:56,240 Speaker 1: over somewhere else, like I'm not fast enough. I don't 460 00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:59,080 Speaker 1: know that any human is fast enough really to move 461 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:03,480 Speaker 1: your eyes quick enough to beat when it detects your 462 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:08,560 Speaker 1: change of focus and then reassigns those bits to the 463 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:13,520 Speaker 1: new area to maximize that area's resolution. So I think 464 00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:16,200 Speaker 1: the response time is some like eight to twelve milliseconds. 465 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,240 Speaker 2: But it's a it is both like a vision Pro 466 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:21,480 Speaker 2: and av Our headset. 467 00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:26,159 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah in the sense. Yeah, you can technically do 468 00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:29,760 Speaker 1: like call it productivity tasks and things like that. 469 00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:35,199 Speaker 2: Yeah, I just I'm I'm a vision Pro truther. I 470 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:37,760 Speaker 2: actually think that. I think it's a fun idea. I 471 00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:40,000 Speaker 2: wish there were more fun ideas like it. But I 472 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:43,560 Speaker 2: also recognize I'm peculiar for that one. And also I 473 00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:45,879 Speaker 2: don't think Apple game enough of a shit. It's just 474 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:49,800 Speaker 2: it is nice to see Belve doing something. I think 475 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,360 Speaker 2: I realized also talking to you about this, how depressing 476 00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:54,520 Speaker 2: it is to just be like, yay, someone did something else. 477 00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:57,760 Speaker 1: I mean that's that's how it felt. It was like, 478 00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:02,040 Speaker 1: it's yeah, I mean the VR side doesn't get a 479 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:05,080 Speaker 1: lot of love compared to when it started. 480 00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:08,040 Speaker 2: It, but it does V all games as well, though. 481 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:12,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's primarily a VR gaming headset. And then 482 00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:14,600 Speaker 1: they are saying, look, if you want to replace your 483 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:18,000 Speaker 1: monitor with this, you can do that. 484 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:21,000 Speaker 2: That sounds expensive though, and of course they have yet 485 00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:22,880 Speaker 2: to say how much this will cost. 486 00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:26,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, they said less than an index, but they didn't 487 00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:30,920 Speaker 1: say how much and so and index. Yeah, there's a 488 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:37,240 Speaker 1: few skews. I think the common aside is yeah, yeah, 489 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:39,440 Speaker 1: it's it's they range like six hundred. I want to 490 00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:41,760 Speaker 1: say the highest of twelve hundred or something, but it's 491 00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:44,480 Speaker 1: not going to be six hundred. It'll it'll be a 492 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:45,280 Speaker 1: thousand plus. 493 00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:47,520 Speaker 2: But we don't really have an idea of when these 494 00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:49,520 Speaker 2: things are coming out, do we just next year? 495 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:54,280 Speaker 1: Next year? The frame, specifically the Steam frame the VR solution, 496 00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:58,360 Speaker 1: they said early twenty twenty six, which, in my experience 497 00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:00,720 Speaker 1: early to a lot of these come it just means 498 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:01,280 Speaker 1: first half. 499 00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:04,280 Speaker 2: So yes, yeah, you excited. 500 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:05,560 Speaker 1: I am. 501 00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:10,200 Speaker 2: I'm I'm auldly excited about both of them. It feels 502 00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:13,320 Speaker 2: like we're finally getting something in PC gaming again. 503 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:17,479 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I'm excited because for that same reason, 504 00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:21,360 Speaker 1: it's nice where it's like, okay, it's just hardware, and 505 00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:23,640 Speaker 1: there doesn't appear to be a lot of bullshit. So 506 00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:27,280 Speaker 1: you know, if we test it and it's not the 507 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:32,800 Speaker 1: best solution for the value, then fine, that's a really 508 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:35,760 Speaker 1: easy review. You know, maybe you say it's good but 509 00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:38,120 Speaker 1: it costs too much, But that is a lot better 510 00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:41,560 Speaker 1: than saying, like when I'm kind of having to lately 511 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:44,640 Speaker 1: think about which is okay, when Nvidia launches their next GPU, 512 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:50,480 Speaker 1: how do I handle the conclusion where, you know, what 513 00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:52,959 Speaker 1: do you get to the end. You're like, other than 514 00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:55,080 Speaker 1: the fact that they're partnering with palent here, which has 515 00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:59,560 Speaker 1: openly admitted to developing technology that is used on occasion 516 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:02,520 Speaker 1: to kill p people, the GPU is pretty good. You're like, 517 00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:05,560 Speaker 1: how do you cross that bridge? Right? Like against this 518 00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:06,800 Speaker 1: really serious stuff. 519 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:08,960 Speaker 2: It's a problem across the whole tech industry. So I 520 00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:13,800 Speaker 2: think Google's working with border patrol. Yeah, Like, it's just 521 00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:16,840 Speaker 2: and I always had the theory that people were like, Wow, 522 00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:18,800 Speaker 2: I can't believe the tech companies are suddenly doing this. 523 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:22,640 Speaker 2: I'm like, they've been fucking waiting. Oh they've been looking 524 00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:25,440 Speaker 2: at like this is They're like, oh, goodie, finally the 525 00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:28,760 Speaker 2: chance to make all that revenue from the evils. 526 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:30,760 Speaker 1: Or they've already been doing it and now it's just 527 00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:32,520 Speaker 1: more on the open or whatever. 528 00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:37,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's and I'm guessing that this is becoming 529 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:39,280 Speaker 2: increasingly a challenge with like even with like a m 530 00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,560 Speaker 2: D who is increasingly though I realized the evils are 531 00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:43,480 Speaker 2: slightly different there. 532 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:50,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean AMD is is not quite as boisterous, 533 00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:53,719 Speaker 1: I guess as Nvidia in that way, but they still 534 00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:56,640 Speaker 1: a lot of the same concerns, and so yeah, with 535 00:30:56,720 --> 00:31:01,360 Speaker 1: Valve it's been I think that's why why the reception 536 00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:04,280 Speaker 1: has been so good on this, because there's no there's 537 00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:07,560 Speaker 1: no hardware launch yet, it's just announcements, but the sentiment's 538 00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:10,760 Speaker 1: pretty high, and I do think that's because people just 539 00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:16,000 Speaker 1: feel so kind of beaten down where it's just every 540 00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:20,840 Speaker 1: ram prices are skyrocketing over one hundred percent in several cases. 541 00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:23,280 Speaker 1: I think we saw one stick one kit that was 542 00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:25,160 Speaker 1: like one hundred and eighty five percent higher than it 543 00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:31,360 Speaker 1: was three weeks ago. Yeah, that's going to affect GPUs. 544 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:33,720 Speaker 1: That'll write when the prices were coming down on those, 545 00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:37,160 Speaker 1: and these will affect the Steam Machine. But I think 546 00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:40,640 Speaker 1: just like the the sort of hey, it's just hardware 547 00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:42,760 Speaker 1: that plays video games, and I guess if you want 548 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:44,800 Speaker 1: to use it for other stuff you can too. Like 549 00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:50,120 Speaker 1: that sadly is pretty exciting right now. So so yeah, 550 00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:53,160 Speaker 1: I'm excited about it. I think the Steam Frame, I'm 551 00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:58,200 Speaker 1: actually really interested in the original VR testing we did. 552 00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,040 Speaker 1: We did some really cool be our benchmarks a long 553 00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:06,720 Speaker 1: time ago, and it just kind of did it a 554 00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:09,320 Speaker 1: couple of times. Never did it again. I thought it 555 00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:12,560 Speaker 1: was a cool idea, but the setup for VR was 556 00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:15,360 Speaker 1: just way too burn in some At that time, I 557 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:19,560 Speaker 1: was still running the company out of my childhood bedroom 558 00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:25,640 Speaker 1: and so room scale VR was like you need to 559 00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:28,360 Speaker 1: spend like three hours cleaning your house. 560 00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:32,080 Speaker 2: Get the room was a little bit fungible. 561 00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:35,520 Speaker 1: And yeah, I mean it was like, but now it 562 00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:39,400 Speaker 1: seems like all of that has matured a lot, and 563 00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:43,400 Speaker 1: as someone who has not felt any desire whatsoever to 564 00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:45,520 Speaker 1: play any VR games for the last like ten years, 565 00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:48,920 Speaker 1: I actually do really want to try the Steam Frame 566 00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:51,480 Speaker 1: and I think it'll be pretty fun. 567 00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:54,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so weird, it's like we even I wouldn't 568 00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:58,400 Speaker 2: say Microsoft was ever known as like a deeply quality company, 569 00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:00,560 Speaker 2: but there was at least at some point a level 570 00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:03,320 Speaker 2: of prestige to it. There was like, oh, Microsoft would 571 00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:06,600 Speaker 2: never just make a big pile of shit, They'd never 572 00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:08,480 Speaker 2: wheel out of I mean, they might do that in 573 00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:10,520 Speaker 2: their software, but it felt like they were at least 574 00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:13,560 Speaker 2: there was the brief period where we could humor ourselves 575 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:19,240 Speaker 2: being like, oh that I like my xbox eymore fucking customer, 576 00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:20,240 Speaker 2: I do. 577 00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:22,080 Speaker 1: I think you're right. I mean, I think the hardware 578 00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:27,720 Speaker 1: for a while, it was like, it seems pretty serious. 579 00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:31,800 Speaker 2: You know, their laptops were pretty well respected. I like 580 00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:35,520 Speaker 2: the wind they had the weird I think it's Panaspane 581 00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:38,640 Speaker 2: who's over at Amazon now, but they had like a 582 00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:42,920 Speaker 2: weird thing where they were respectable for laptops. Yeah, and 583 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:46,360 Speaker 2: now I don't know, it's all just it's all eating itself. 584 00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:47,120 Speaker 2: It feels like. 585 00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:50,720 Speaker 1: It felt like it felt like after after the zoon 586 00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:55,280 Speaker 1: they realized they needed to change something in hardware and 587 00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:58,480 Speaker 1: it went okay after that. And just to put it 588 00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:03,920 Speaker 1: out there, I still have my original Zoom. Yeah. 589 00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:08,319 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I'm a was a creative nomad guy myself. 590 00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:11,680 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Creative got really screwed during that 591 00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:14,680 Speaker 1: whole period. I mean it was yeah, just in the 592 00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:17,960 Speaker 1: sense that it was like Creative was kinda they were 593 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:20,880 Speaker 1: sort of their first or very early, and they did 594 00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:26,280 Speaker 1: a lot of innovation and they just got squashed by Apple, 595 00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:28,759 Speaker 1: like Apple did kind of the Apple thing where it 596 00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:31,000 Speaker 1: just it's this jug or not. 597 00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:33,040 Speaker 2: And they just dropped their weight on them. 598 00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:35,560 Speaker 1: Yeah. I think there was even a lawsuit, I want 599 00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:37,680 Speaker 1: to say Creative one. It was maybe like a couple 600 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:41,640 Speaker 1: hundred million dollars or something. I don't know, and yeah, yeah, 601 00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:45,600 Speaker 1: that's that's Uh. It was one of those win or 602 00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:47,320 Speaker 1: lose you still lose. 603 00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:50,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, No, no one's winning by the end of 604 00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:54,800 Speaker 2: this other than Apple. Oh boy. Well, on that happy note, Steve, 605 00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:57,279 Speaker 2: what where can people find you? And what are some 606 00:34:57,320 --> 00:34:58,920 Speaker 2: recent things they should go and look at? 607 00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:01,160 Speaker 1: One hundred million dollars was two thousand and six. By 608 00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:03,840 Speaker 1: the way, Apple will pay Creative one hundred million dollars 609 00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:06,920 Speaker 1: for a paid up license to use Creative's awarded patent 610 00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:10,040 Speaker 1: im P three players. Anyway, what was your question? 611 00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:12,319 Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, it's just where can people find you? And 612 00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:15,280 Speaker 2: what are some interesting things you've been covering recently? 613 00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:21,000 Speaker 1: The most interesting yeah, recently is so we have a 614 00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:25,200 Speaker 1: story coming up where I previously mentioned to you I 615 00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:27,120 Speaker 1: would be going to the UK for something and you 616 00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:34,640 Speaker 1: immediately said, I'm sorry, Yeah, that's the appropriate and so 617 00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:37,840 Speaker 1: we went over to London. We've got a really interesting 618 00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:41,960 Speaker 1: thing we're finalizing now where I'm still trying to sort 619 00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:44,840 Speaker 1: through who's right, who's wrong all that stuff. But like 620 00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:51,840 Speaker 1: long story short, there is a guy who bought Sega, Nintendo, 621 00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:57,439 Speaker 1: Microsoft and other game development kits and development cartridges from 622 00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:01,479 Speaker 1: a scrap yard, We visited the scrapyard, we visited the guy, 623 00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:08,640 Speaker 1: and he was arrested by the police, and SAGA was 624 00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:11,040 Speaker 1: connected to it. They had a private investigator look into 625 00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:14,280 Speaker 1: the guy and basically all the you know, the companies 626 00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:16,720 Speaker 1: involved in the chain, as far as we tell, freaked 627 00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:18,920 Speaker 1: out when they found out their game development kits and 628 00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:22,319 Speaker 1: cartridges made it into the hands of a person even 629 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:26,759 Speaker 1: though they had thrown them out. And we're basically trying 630 00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:30,600 Speaker 1: to sort through where did stuff fall through the cracks 631 00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:37,719 Speaker 1: and is this an over extension of a corporation into 632 00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:40,360 Speaker 1: someone's home to work with the police on a raid 633 00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:42,960 Speaker 1: over game development cartridges, you know? 634 00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:44,919 Speaker 2: Or is there any old games? Right? 635 00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:48,719 Speaker 1: Primarily I think there's maybe like some switch stuff in there, 636 00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:51,480 Speaker 1: which is I think probably what set the alarm bells. 637 00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:58,239 Speaker 2: Off fucking Nintendo. Yeah, anyway, but well that so that 638 00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:00,160 Speaker 2: will go up, I'm guessing in the next few weeks. 639 00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:03,600 Speaker 2: So yeah, of course we'll link to gamers nextus. But yeah, 640 00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:06,000 Speaker 2: thank you for joining us, Steve. It's always a pleasure 641 00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:06,400 Speaker 2: having you. 642 00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:08,279 Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you appreciate it. 643 00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:10,520 Speaker 2: And you've been listening to Better Offline. You can find 644 00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:13,920 Speaker 2: me at better offline dot com. Who knows when this 645 00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:16,360 Speaker 2: one goes out in the next couple of weeks, he says, 646 00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:18,359 Speaker 2: knowing that you'll have no concept of the timescale I'm 647 00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:20,480 Speaker 2: talking about. But thank you so much for listening. 648 00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:32,000 Speaker 3: Everyone, Thank you for listening to Better Offline. The editor 649 00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:34,880 Speaker 3: and composer of the Better Offline theme song is Matttersowski. 650 00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:37,000 Speaker 3: You can check out more of his music and audio 651 00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:40,920 Speaker 3: projects at Mattasowski dot com, M A T T O 652 00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:45,280 Speaker 3: S O W s ki dot com. You can email 653 00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:47,759 Speaker 3: me at easy at Better Offline dot com or visit 654 00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:50,120 Speaker 3: Better Offline dot com to find more podcast links and 655 00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:53,239 Speaker 3: of course, my newsletter. I also really recommend you go 656 00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:55,960 Speaker 3: to chat dot Where's Youreed dot at to visit the discord, 657 00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:57,680 Speaker 3: and go to our slash Better. 658 00:37:57,440 --> 00:37:59,080 Speaker 2: Offline to check out our reddit. 659 00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:01,200 Speaker 1: Thanks. Thank you so much for listening. 660 00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:04,520 Speaker 2: Better Offline is a production of cool Zone Media. 661 00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:08,040 Speaker 1: For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website Coolzonemedia 662 00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:10,879 Speaker 1: dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 663 00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:13,400 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.