Speaker 1: He welcome into All Ball. I'm your host, Dot GOTL.
Speaker 1: We really appreciate you downloading, describing, and waiting this year's podcast. Uh,
Speaker 1: this one's gonna be a little bit of a long one,
Speaker 1: so buckle up. We we have we're we're going to
Speaker 1: continue to evolve the pod during the off season and
Speaker 1: because there really is no off season. Last week we
Speaker 1: talked to a lot of high school hoops and from recruiting.
Speaker 1: This week we'll talk some college hoops. Chris Beard from
Speaker 1: Texas Tech is gonna join me, and I don't want
Speaker 1: to do the let's talk about your players. We'll talk
Speaker 1: a little bit about the Elite eight, a little bit
Speaker 1: about you know, losing a one and done first time
Speaker 1: ever Texas Tech. UH and Chris Beard have lost a
Speaker 1: one and done. What I want to get to is
Speaker 1: his kind of mere curial path from being a high
Speaker 1: school ball player that was set to go to like
Speaker 1: a D two n a I A level school and
Speaker 1: UH went to Texas, thought about going back to playing
Speaker 1: in an n A I A school, finished up at Texas,
Speaker 1: became a a very young assistant coach. So what I
Speaker 1: want to get to with Chris Beard is his path
Speaker 1: to becoming not only a head coach, but a really
Speaker 1: good one. It's it's he's super interesting, you know. Um,
Speaker 1: he's a great storyteller. Plus there's some Bob Knight to it, right, Like,
Speaker 1: don't you want Bob Knight stories? Of course, you want
Speaker 1: Bob nice stories. I love Bob Knight stories. Before he
Speaker 1: joins us, I'm gonna give you a Bob Knight's story
Speaker 1: of my own life. One of the things in the
Speaker 1: feedback that many of you guys give me tell us
Speaker 1: more stories. Okay, here's the story. When I was getting
Speaker 1: to be a freshman for as a freshman at Notre Dame,
Speaker 1: I got invited to the U S a U S
Speaker 1: Trials and uh, it was like the undernineteen trials. A
Speaker 1: matter of fact, it's funny because Tim Duncan was a
Speaker 1: sophomore maybe going to be a junior. He's really young,
Speaker 1: and I was an old high school senior, and so
Speaker 1: he could have played in the maybe it's the eighteen
Speaker 1: and under or something like that, and he actually played
Speaker 1: up because he was just so much better than everybody
Speaker 1: play like the twenty one and under the me and
Speaker 1: under it. I was on the eight team under. I
Speaker 1: don't remember how it worked. So um, I was. I
Speaker 1: was friends of the guy named Charlie Miller. Childie Miller's
Speaker 1: nicknames Fluke. He's from Miami, Florida, actually played for Frank
Speaker 1: Martin and uh um, he played for Biami Senior High School. Anyway,
Speaker 1: so Fluke could come out and stayed at my house
Speaker 1: and played on my AU team the summer before this
Speaker 1: is back when you could play kind of out of
Speaker 1: area stuff. So we used to fly guys in every
Speaker 1: summer to load up our team. And Charlie is a
Speaker 1: great dude. He had just completed his freshman year at Indiana,
Speaker 1: and then Brian Evans was also there, and so I
Speaker 1: kind of befriended Brian Evans and Charlie and I was,
Speaker 1: you know, like a little brother to both of them,
Speaker 1: hanging out around the USA Trials. So and when in
Speaker 1: basketball and a lot of you guys are coaches or
Speaker 1: players and you know this, but one of the things
Speaker 1: that when you play for or work for a vivid
Speaker 1: personality like a good ice breaker, is give me a
Speaker 1: give me a story, right, give me a you know,
Speaker 1: if he had played with a guy who was a
Speaker 1: whack job, give me a what's it? Called, you know,
Speaker 1: give me a story, and so I never forget. I said,
Speaker 1: you know, give me a story about coach Knight. And um,
Speaker 1: at the time the story what was this that? Uh,
Speaker 1: they were coming back from Iowa, playing on the road
Speaker 1: in Iowa, and Indiana's team playing had a chair for
Speaker 1: Bob Knight up in the front and it could spin
Speaker 1: around and face the rest of the team and they
Speaker 1: lost to Iowa. And Coach Knight had a bowl of
Speaker 1: fruit and he was stewing over his bowl of fruit
Speaker 1: looking at the statueet and he turned around to look
Speaker 1: at the team and he started reading the stat line
Speaker 1: and every negative stat that he would read, he pick
Speaker 1: up a piece of fruit and throw it at one
Speaker 1: Greg Graham five turnovers? Are you freaking kidding me? And
Speaker 1: he started throwing fruit at Greg Graham. And then of
Speaker 1: course the managers like, what are you supposed to do?
Speaker 1: You when you get the fruit, your reload coach so
Speaker 1: that he has his fruit because he wants to eat
Speaker 1: it or he wants to throw it again. So um,
Speaker 1: there's all. There's all kinds of There's a famous video
Speaker 1: out there of Coach Night getting run over. Every most
Speaker 1: coaches have been run over at practice and that is
Speaker 1: good is gold? Right? The coaches yelling and streaming, and
Speaker 1: he forgets that we're transitioning offense to defense. And you know,
Speaker 1: some of these dudes they get into their forties, fifties, sixties.
Speaker 1: Sometimes they trip, sometimes they're just old. Sometimes it just
Speaker 1: surprises them and they fall or they get they just
Speaker 1: get run over because you know, if you're you're playing uh,
Speaker 1: you're playing offense, and all of a sudden the shot
Speaker 1: goes up and he's on your ask to get back
Speaker 1: and get that back on defense, you turn, you sprint
Speaker 1: and all there's coach so supposedly also and one of
Speaker 1: the other stories was that there was a film that
Speaker 1: they had common to hear from the managers of Coach
Speaker 1: Night getting run over at practice, and they enjoyed it
Speaker 1: so much that when they'd have a bad day, they
Speaker 1: would all go over to Brian Evans apartment and and
Speaker 1: run it incessantly over and over and over again. Let's
Speaker 1: watch it again and again. Some has some Bob Nights stories, uh,
Speaker 1: and some other stories upcoming with Chris beard Um the hoop.
Speaker 1: I want to get to real quick in terms of
Speaker 1: the NBA. Is many people reacting now is it's it's
Speaker 1: set in that Lebron James is going to be a
Speaker 1: member of the l A Lakers. Now, look, you don't
Speaker 1: have to agree with my opinion. It's okay, uh, And
Speaker 1: it's it's not such a strong opinion that it's like
Speaker 1: this is absolutely the right way and there's no wrong way.
Speaker 1: I've said for a long time that Michael Jordan is
Speaker 1: to the greatest player I've ever seen play basketball, and
Speaker 1: and the struggle I've had with Lebron this is more
Speaker 1: previous to this year because he had a little bit
Speaker 1: more of this has has has been that in any
Speaker 1: basketball game I ever played him, especially like pickup games,
Speaker 1: and that's kind of way the NBA has always been.
Speaker 1: You get down game in the line, you get the
Speaker 1: ball of your best player, and you get the hell
Speaker 1: all the way and he's gonna go get you a bucket, right.
Speaker 1: And I understand that Lebron James is wired to to
Speaker 1: set people up, and he's in credible pastor. He's a
Speaker 1: really good pastor um. But there was something about the
Speaker 1: killer instinct that at times he would defer. And while
Speaker 1: that's great in big situations, you know, it's it's not
Speaker 1: always great. That's great in some situations, always great in
Speaker 1: the biggest of situations, as opposed to Jordan, who had
Speaker 1: to learn to pass as Kobe had to. I don't
Speaker 1: know if he ever truly learned to trust his teammates,
Speaker 1: but he did trust Derek Fisher, and Derek Fisher made
Speaker 1: him look good. Um. I do think there's there's some
Speaker 1: genius to him, and it was uh to to Lebron
Speaker 1: and how he plays. But Larry Bird didn't have to
Speaker 1: learn the pass to to to score down the stretch.
Speaker 1: Magic Johnson didn't either. So, however you regard Lebron James
Speaker 1: is the greatest player of all time, the greatest player
Speaker 1: of this era, I'm okay saying he's the greatest player
Speaker 1: of this era, even if I thought Kevin Durant in
Speaker 1: many ways outplayed him in both the past two NBA finals.
Speaker 1: And I actually think that Lebron James is living a
Speaker 1: lot on reputation defensively, and Kevin Durant, though his defense
Speaker 1: wasn't as good most the season as it was the
Speaker 1: start of the year, and in the playoffs, he has
Speaker 1: shown the desire to play more defense than he ever did.
Speaker 1: So whether or not I think he's the best player,
Speaker 1: now the second best player. It's in arguable over the
Speaker 1: last decade, he's been consistently the best or one of
Speaker 1: the top three players in the NBA. Right, we were
Speaker 1: okay with that. Cool. So he goes to the Lakers,
Speaker 1: and now people are being critical in many ways, saying, look,
Speaker 1: Barkley said he wants to be a mogul, and everybody's saying,
Speaker 1: it's not about winning. And look, I don't think it's
Speaker 1: solely about winning, but I think that winning is part
Speaker 1: of the equation. It's just not the only part of
Speaker 1: the equation. Family location, whether ability to you know, ability
Speaker 1: to to do something after after basketball, Like, you know,
Speaker 1: I think he's an incredibly well rounded guy. Now that
Speaker 1: that may not fit your narrative or what you want
Speaker 1: for your athletes. And it's interesting because Kobe has found
Speaker 1: this second passion. Right, here's Kobe Bryant, guy who a
Speaker 1: lot of people thought, man, he is just not he
Speaker 1: is just not going to be able to cope. He's
Speaker 1: not gonna be able to cope with um, with with
Speaker 1: not having basketball, and he's already won, you know, an Oscar.
Speaker 1: So we were so scared that Kobe wouldn't know what
Speaker 1: to do with himself. And at some of the Kobe's curious.
Speaker 1: He's very bright, and uh, some of it I think
Speaker 1: was helped out by the fact that he had the
Speaker 1: year off when he had the Achilles tendon surgery and
Speaker 1: the rehab. You know, people think you rehab twenty four
Speaker 1: hours a day. You don't. Kobe also spent more time
Speaker 1: as a father, you know, started a program for his daughter,
Speaker 1: a du daughters, both of them soccer than basketball, and
Speaker 1: he started to develop other interests. Lebron has other interests
Speaker 1: and he's still a great player. He's what you what
Speaker 1: you understand when you're in a business is like what
Speaker 1: you understand is as a student. I remember when he
Speaker 1: first got to college and you were just overwhelmed by like, oh,
Speaker 1: I got all these classes, I got this the syllabus
Speaker 1: to keep up with the reading and the homework and
Speaker 1: the tests and yeah, by the way, I'm trying to
Speaker 1: have a social life. And for me, he was lifting
Speaker 1: in basketball and eating and and being away from home.
Speaker 1: Like you just your time management skills suck three years
Speaker 1: into college. Time management skills are awesome. That's no different
Speaker 1: than now. He's a machine guy's a machine. Gets up,
Speaker 1: you know, gets up. Most of these guys get up.
Speaker 1: They work out early. I'll give you an example, Gordon Hayward.
Speaker 1: I know this for a fact. Gordon Hayward gets up
Speaker 1: at five, he's in, he's at his his workout place
Speaker 1: at six. From six to seven, he works on his body, lifting, running,
Speaker 1: whatever his trainer has him do. And then from seven
Speaker 1: to eight he works on his game and then he's done,
Speaker 1: doesn't touch the basketball the rest of the day. That's
Speaker 1: his offseason routine. And so from eight until whatever, Gordon
Speaker 1: Hayward is just a dad, and he's just a dad.
Speaker 1: As we found out, he's gonna be the dad of
Speaker 1: another daughter, but he's just a dad. Well that's the
Speaker 1: same for Lebron. Like these guys, they understand how to
Speaker 1: manage their time. You know, they have drivers, they have chefs,
Speaker 1: they have trainers, they have guys that just stretched them
Speaker 1: and take care of their body and within that other time,
Speaker 1: within that downtime, he's past the video game playing stage.
Speaker 1: You know, he's past the staring at his phone stage.
Speaker 1: So yeah, he can be a mogul, but he can
Speaker 1: also still be a great basketball player. I don't think
Speaker 1: what Lebron James is. I don't think what Charles Barkley
Speaker 1: is saying is wrong. I think he is on the
Speaker 1: downward side of his career, but he's still kind of
Speaker 1: in the downward side of his prime. Right. He hasn't
Speaker 1: hit the oh my god, Jason Kidd can't make a
Speaker 1: lay up stage. He's not close to that. He's he's
Speaker 1: managed the mileage on his odometer better than anybody in
Speaker 1: the history maybe of any sport. That's what's really remarkable
Speaker 1: about him. So, look, it's it's thrown people for a loop,
Speaker 1: but we all kind of knew it was coming. The
Speaker 1: roster is a little bit different than you thought. But
Speaker 1: as I've stated previously on my radio show three to
Speaker 1: Sixties Tren twelve to three Pacific, The Dug outl Lip Show,
Speaker 1: Fox Sports Radio, there was no blank slate. You can't
Speaker 1: create a team out of nothing, and based on what
Speaker 1: was available, this was the path that they've chosen. Let's
Speaker 1: get some junkyard dogs, experienced guy is off the bench
Speaker 1: and see what the young guys got. And so as
Speaker 1: we react to Lebron James, is that a sure fire
Speaker 1: championship team? No? But I also think he's a builder.
Speaker 1: People like the build. This is here's the housing analogy.
Speaker 1: You know. Some people like to buy a really sick
Speaker 1: house that somebody else redid and just live in it
Speaker 1: and and and enjoy life. Some people like going in
Speaker 1: and buying excuse my language, but a shitter. You know,
Speaker 1: you go in and you buy something that needs to
Speaker 1: and they like to, whether they scrape it or they
Speaker 1: just read you the kitchens in the bathroom and the
Speaker 1: tile and they paint everything. And then you know they're
Speaker 1: in it for a couple of years and they're like,
Speaker 1: now we made profit, let's sell it. Let's move on.
Speaker 1: Let's move down the street and do the exact same thing.
Speaker 1: That's who Lebron James's. He likes to redo things. So
Speaker 1: I have you know, I we knew it was coming.
Speaker 1: It was a little bit harder than people will allow
Speaker 1: magic to allow us to believe with magic. Remember magic
Speaker 1: walked in and Paul George wasn't coming. He had to
Speaker 1: explain that one away. Even if they had cooled on
Speaker 1: Paul George and some people saw it coming, the fact
Speaker 1: is that you're getting ready to have a meeting. You're
Speaker 1: the only one that has the meeting. And all you
Speaker 1: gotta do is make the wide open jump shot, and
Speaker 1: Paul George decides he stay in Oklahoma City. That had
Speaker 1: to be somewhat of a surprise. So they closed the
Speaker 1: deal and now everybody reacts. Um. I'll also point out
Speaker 1: this in regards to the NBA, and this is really important.
Speaker 1: I think in regards to the NBA, the Oklahoma City
Speaker 1: Thunder I think got better, more so than anyone outside
Speaker 1: of the Lakers. They refined their roster first, getting Paul
Speaker 1: George back year two, He is going to be better.
Speaker 1: You are more comfortable, You know how to play within
Speaker 1: the offense, even if they restructure things. You have a
Speaker 1: better relationship with Russell Westbrook. You know how that you're
Speaker 1: just more comfortable year two in a college or two
Speaker 1: in a job. You're just more comfortable. Getting ready to
Speaker 1: Carmelo Anthony, who they couldn't hide defensively, and they needed
Speaker 1: to feed the basketball to and get him shots. That's better. Remember,
Speaker 1: they get Andre Robertson back, who they love because he's
Speaker 1: such a versatile defender and he has no ego offensively,
Speaker 1: albeit he's got to make some You just gotta make
Speaker 1: a shot in order to keep people honest, And then
Speaker 1: I like the I really like the acquisition of going
Speaker 1: out and getting getting Dennis Shrewder. Shooder is not a
Speaker 1: great starting point guard. He's probably bottom five to seven
Speaker 1: in terms of the starting point guards in the league.
Speaker 1: Not great. But as they back up, is the sixth
Speaker 1: man who can move Russell Westbrook off the ball. That's
Speaker 1: a great get. That's a really really good get. So again,
Speaker 1: not working with a blank slate. Having Russell Westbrook, did
Speaker 1: they do they have enough shooting around him? I don't know.
Speaker 1: You got Paul George, you still got breedness, you got
Speaker 1: the ability to go small with grant Um, and now
Speaker 1: you get another guard who can who can defend the
Speaker 1: basketball and who can get into lane and create shots
Speaker 1: for himself and for others, for others, is is a
Speaker 1: bit of a question mark. I like it. I think
Speaker 1: Oklahoma City is gonna challenge to be the second best
Speaker 1: team in the West. Whether that they have the second
Speaker 1: best record in the West, that doesn't really matter. Oklahoma
Speaker 1: City is gonna be a tough out, a really really
Speaker 1: tough out. And uh, I'm I'm fascinated to see what
Speaker 1: happens with the Thunder in regards to the n c
Speaker 1: A for college basketball. We wait and wait and wait,
Speaker 1: and we'll find out what the new recruiting rules, what
Speaker 1: the new calendar looks like. But it does look like
Speaker 1: it's going to be a combination of the recommendations of
Speaker 1: the committee and the recommendations of college coaches. I don't
Speaker 1: know how these camps work, these massive camps run by
Speaker 1: NBA people and n c A people and somehow taking
Speaker 1: shoe companies out of it. I hope to be involved.
Speaker 1: They call me, I may make a call. I'd like
Speaker 1: to be involved. I think it'd be great for guys
Speaker 1: that love the game that don't have a specific tie
Speaker 1: to a specific shoe company or specific AU program that
Speaker 1: that that's been on the tape. I like that. But
Speaker 1: I also think it keeps the AU teams going. They'll
Speaker 1: still be the Peach Dam, they'll still be the Gauntlet,
Speaker 1: They'll still be other events as well. I don't think
Speaker 1: that will die. And I think April recruiting period is important.
Speaker 1: I like the idea getting high school coaches involved, but
Speaker 1: I also like the idea of keeping college coaches more
Speaker 1: engaged with their own current players. If it was me,
Speaker 1: if I was staying the rules. The rules will be
Speaker 1: there are no rules, right instead of having condensed weekends
Speaker 1: where you can come out and see kid. Just look,
Speaker 1: if you want to go on the road, recruit, go
Speaker 1: on the road recruit. If you're a recruiting assistant coach,
Speaker 1: you should be allowed to go out whenever you want.
Speaker 1: This idea that you're gonna bombard players and and be
Speaker 1: around them too much. If you're around a kid too
Speaker 1: much and he wants space, he's gonna eliminate you from
Speaker 1: recruiting him. Everybody likes attention, they don't like creepy attention.
Speaker 1: So to me, i'm a I'm a less. Rules is more.
Speaker 1: Don't pay your players, don't change their grades, you know,
Speaker 1: don't pay people who are gonna pay the players, and
Speaker 1: don't you know, don't encourage anybody else to change their grades.
Speaker 1: That that that's kind of it. I know there's gotta
Speaker 1: be a couple more rules than that, But that's about
Speaker 1: it for me. But we'll wait to see what happens.
Speaker 1: We'll start to preview college basketball as well. We continue
Speaker 1: to update you on NBA stuff. Dwight Howard, by the way,
Speaker 1: saying this is bouncing back to the NBA saying that
Speaker 1: the Warriors called. I do think the Warriors wanted a
Speaker 1: big guy. They want get a big guy in the cheap.
Speaker 1: They got to Marcus Cousins. They thought they could get
Speaker 1: Dwight Howard, and then Cousins called him and kind of
Speaker 1: surprised them. The difference with Cousins and Howard is Cousins
Speaker 1: is more in his prime and can shoot the basketball,
Speaker 1: but he's not gonna play until March. Howard can't shoot
Speaker 1: and is also kind of a weird fit with the
Speaker 1: personality of that team. Although he's a guy who likes
Speaker 1: to have fun, they like to have fun playing uh,
Speaker 1: but playing style wise, he could be an odd fit,
Speaker 1: especially considering the minutes would be limited that he'd get there.
Speaker 1: But the money that he got in Washington was the
Speaker 1: money that he would get in Gold States. So it's
Speaker 1: reasonable to think they called and then he was usurped
Speaker 1: and moved. He was he was. He was passed over
Speaker 1: when they went and got to Marcus Cousins. That's my
Speaker 1: read on some of the NBA stuff we mentioned some
Speaker 1: of the college basketballs. One last thing, Ian Williamson weighs
Speaker 1: out weighs in a two five pounds. He's six five
Speaker 1: and change pounds. Dude, this this is I mean, he's
Speaker 1: a tank, but he's got a slim up because his
Speaker 1: explodes as as most of its an athlete as he is,
Speaker 1: and he's explosive. Um he it's his ability to make
Speaker 1: it at the next level is gonna be Kenny easy,
Speaker 1: agile enough to move out on the floor. He's gonna
Speaker 1: have to be an undersized foe. Man. They're gonna have
Speaker 1: to shoot a little bit better, but that's gonna come
Speaker 1: with with work ethic got learned to play harder on defense,
Speaker 1: but he has a lot of He has the god
Speaker 1: given athletic ability, but he needs to be playing in
Speaker 1: the two fifties to sixties. He always wish whatever Villanova
Speaker 1: does with those guys to slim down, that's what Duke
Speaker 1: should do. So as I'm I'm getting ready for the
Speaker 1: Duke Kentucky's maybe even to Carolina if they figure out
Speaker 1: their point guard situation. U c l A should be loaded. Uh.
Speaker 1: College basketball is gonna be a lot of fun this
Speaker 1: year to cover. Obviously a whole new team in Villanova,
Speaker 1: since seemingly their entire team went in the first round
Speaker 1: of the NBA Draft. Keep an eye on Zion Williamson,
Speaker 1: who is a YouTube sensation. But watch for his weight,
Speaker 1: watch for his movement defensively, and whether or not he
Speaker 1: could shoot the basketball. I think his basketball like Q
Speaker 1: is good enough. It's gonna be more about his basketball mode.
Speaker 1: All right, let's get you to Chris pet All right,
Speaker 1: let's roll on here in the All Ball podcast, as
Speaker 1: we talked basketball all the time. This I don't know.
Speaker 1: As soon as we started doing this pod. One of
Speaker 1: the first I don't know, like ten people that came
Speaker 1: to my mind in terms of just the name like
Speaker 1: all Ball, which is all basketball all the time, was
Speaker 1: the head coach of Texas Tech. He's had an incredible
Speaker 1: run um, starting out as an assistant kind of working
Speaker 1: his way up through the different levels of coaching to
Speaker 1: becoming not only have do any spectacular job at Little Rock,
Speaker 1: but then Texas Tech. In just two seasons, I mean,
Speaker 1: think about this, one and four fifty four. That's his uh,
Speaker 1: that's his record so far. He's been the champion of
Speaker 1: the Sun Belt. Of course, he was Coached the Year
Speaker 1: in the Big Twelve, Coach of the Year in in
Speaker 1: the Sun Belt. I mean, you go back and look
Speaker 1: at his resume, and it is. It's just one of
Speaker 1: incredible growth. But it's also a guy who the more
Speaker 1: you get to know him, the more you know he
Speaker 1: kind of is all ball all the time. Chris Pierre
Speaker 1: joins us here on the podcast. Um, is that is
Speaker 1: that fair? Like? Do you have if you had if
Speaker 1: you had to pick your three other interests outside of basketball,
Speaker 1: and you can't say you're girls, can't say your girls?
Speaker 1: What would they be? Well, that's a tough one. Man.
Speaker 1: I was going to go down the daughter Avenue and
Speaker 1: the girlfriend Street, but um, can we still say girlfriends
Speaker 1: one of the three? That's fine? I mean, listen, women,
Speaker 1: women and women in your life? Would be would be one? Right?
Speaker 1: If there was two in their three? Like do you fish?
Speaker 1: Do you hunt? Do you like rehabbing houses? Do you
Speaker 1: like the market? Like? What? What? What would two in
Speaker 1: three be if it wasn't for basketball? You know, none
Speaker 1: of those things? I did. Used to play golf earlier
Speaker 1: in my career, but I have not swung a golf
Speaker 1: club since I met Bob and Patt Night true story. Um,
Speaker 1: used to play not all the time, and I played, like,
Speaker 1: you know, once a week or something. But then once
Speaker 1: I got here, the text and assistant. Not that those
Speaker 1: guys wouldn't let me play golf, just kind of like
Speaker 1: trying to prioritize time and things like that. I've got
Speaker 1: kind of a competitive, almost you know, addictive personality, so
Speaker 1: I'm also scared to go play because I know I'll
Speaker 1: get the bug again. Um. But after women in my life,
Speaker 1: i'd have to say, you know, one thing I try
Speaker 1: to do a lot, um is I go to a
Speaker 1: lot of movies. That kind of started in my single
Speaker 1: coaching days. I'd always go to like the ten o'clock
Speaker 1: PM movie, no matter what was showing, kind of time
Speaker 1: to turn the phone off and just relax a little bit,
Speaker 1: let your mind go somewhere overside basketball. And I've still
Speaker 1: continue to do that. It's it's very rare there's a
Speaker 1: movie out that I haven't seen. Um. And then thirdly,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know, maybe watching NBA basketball that's
Speaker 1: still qualifies as basketball, alright, So it's different, different, different
Speaker 1: than college basketball. I do think it is different. I
Speaker 1: do think I want to get to that in a second. Um, Look,
Speaker 1: we could sit here and kind of run down your
Speaker 1: guys Elite eight run but I don't know. I mean
Speaker 1: that that would be the VCR going through your mind.
Speaker 1: I think it's far more interesting how you got to
Speaker 1: where you are, how you develop your philosophy, and and
Speaker 1: how you continue to evolve as as a coach. I
Speaker 1: think I think, to people who love basketball, that's that's fascinating.
Speaker 1: All right, So let's go back, um McCullough high school, right,
Speaker 1: that's uh. And then you go to you go to
Speaker 1: you say, I want to go to Texas because of
Speaker 1: Tom Penders and I want to be part of that staff,
Speaker 1: and I want to learn ball or why why did
Speaker 1: you go to ut? Yeah? So my journey growing up,
Speaker 1: you know, I kind of played everything football, baseball, basketball,
Speaker 1: like everybody, whatever season was in session is kind of
Speaker 1: where your love was. And then right around the time,
Speaker 1: like junior high, high school, I kind of made a
Speaker 1: commitment in high school just to play basketball. It really
Speaker 1: just fell in love with the sport for so many reasons.
Speaker 1: The locker room, the camaraderie, the competitiveness. Um, it was
Speaker 1: always hard to get enough people in the neighborhood together
Speaker 1: to play football or even baseball. Basketball. Can't even play
Speaker 1: with yourself, you know, imagination, driveway, the whole deal. Um.
Speaker 1: Two great high school coaches. Mike coon Stat was my
Speaker 1: first high school coach in Irby, Texas. Coach koon Stat
Speaker 1: now one of the best recruiting service UM events guy
Speaker 1: out there with great American sports in Texas. And then
Speaker 1: at McCullough playing for Terry Priest to Texas High School
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame coach. Those guys really mentored me. I'd say,
Speaker 1: second to my own father, those guys that probably had
Speaker 1: the most influence in my life. I was going. I
Speaker 1: was set to go play like Division five basketball UM
Speaker 1: in a kind of an academic kind of school around
Speaker 1: Austin Southwestern University, not disrespecting those people had already paid
Speaker 1: my application fee and everything. Then there was a coaching change.
Speaker 1: The coach at the time then went to a Division
Speaker 1: two school. I asked that coach, now, hey, when do
Speaker 1: I need to be there? Any kind of pause and said,
Speaker 1: you're not coming here. So reality kind of hit me
Speaker 1: in the face there. So I decided to go to
Speaker 1: the University of Texas State School and then kind of
Speaker 1: my admiration for coach pinners in that program. UM. Once
Speaker 1: I got there, got involved with the team as quick
Speaker 1: as I could, took a little bit of a detour
Speaker 1: during my college years, uh, to chase the playing dream
Speaker 1: again at Concordia Lutheran where Rusty Siegler was the coach. Um,
Speaker 1: a really really good coach in his own right, went
Speaker 1: back to Texas turn so down. Wait, okay, so how
Speaker 1: long were you Texas before you decided you want to play?
Speaker 1: Because my brother did that. He was he was supposed
Speaker 1: to go like low D one and he just couldn't
Speaker 1: get into it. He got into u C l A.
Speaker 1: He was supposed to walk on, you know, he got
Speaker 1: beat out to be a walk on, and so he's
Speaker 1: just like a frat boy. Then a couple of years
Speaker 1: and he's like, dude, I want to play. He started
Speaker 1: working out of the summer with me. He went to
Speaker 1: j C camps and he end up going to Drake
Speaker 1: as a walk on. So how many years are you
Speaker 1: at you t before you went to Concordia? Yeah, sametime story,
Speaker 1: it's like an addiction. You know, I love a basketball
Speaker 1: as the disease. There's all of us out here that
Speaker 1: really weren't very good players that had the disease. So
Speaker 1: basically a Texas first year kind of getting used to
Speaker 1: school and going down that route and then really missing basketball.
Speaker 1: Got back involved with the team's second year college with
Speaker 1: coach Fenders, Victorulli, Eddie Orne, some great guys that really
Speaker 1: helped my career, and then just playing with the guys
Speaker 1: in the summer and after practice and stuff, just really
Speaker 1: started missing it and kind of I didn't want to
Speaker 1: live my life with any kind of regrets. Um, the
Speaker 1: deal had happened real quick when I didn't go to Southwestern,
Speaker 1: So I got back in decent shape and then had
Speaker 1: an opportunity to go to Concordia Loot and which is
Speaker 1: actually right there in Austin. UM was only there for
Speaker 1: a summer session, and then right when the school years
Speaker 1: started back to coach the Rusty Siegler gave me some
Speaker 1: of the best advice in my life, like, Chris, looks,
Speaker 1: you're wanting to coach, what are you doing here? You're
Speaker 1: about to go in debt. I had to fasten out
Speaker 1: taking student loans and all sorts of stuff. Um, but
Speaker 1: with the advice is Rusty Siegler and Tom Penders and
Speaker 1: those guys went back to Texas quickly, so it was
Speaker 1: really only a Concordia for one semester. Okay, so you
Speaker 1: gad you eight Texas Uh? And then um? And then
Speaker 1: how how long before you went to incarnent word? Yes?
Speaker 1: And Carna where it was my first job. How's a
Speaker 1: graduate assistant there? Um with Danny Casper was now the
Speaker 1: head coach of Texas State. Steve Lutts has done a
Speaker 1: great job in his career. Is it per due? Now?
Speaker 1: With coach Paynter, I think the future head coach very
Speaker 1: soon was the other graduate assistant and it was probably, uh,
Speaker 1: one of my best breaks I've had. I tell young
Speaker 1: guys all the time, if you can get on somebody's
Speaker 1: staff like Danny Casper early on, you'll find out, you know,
Speaker 1: whether you really want to coach. He'll push you hard,
Speaker 1: he'll be fair, but he'll he'll teach you what it's
Speaker 1: all about. And so that was a great first year.
Speaker 1: We won a conference championship my first season of coaching.
Speaker 1: Still have that ring today, probably displayed in the office.
Speaker 1: And then you went to Abilene Christian Why why? Why
Speaker 1: make a move over? What was a full time job?
Speaker 1: So in the Carnate word, I'm a graduate assistant basically
Speaker 1: just making a couple hundred dollars a month kind of surviving.
Speaker 1: And then Avelene Christian was a chance to get a
Speaker 1: full time position with with Health Insurance UM. Shannon Hayes
Speaker 1: was the coach at um A CEU at that time.
Speaker 1: You might know of him Doug He's got some Oklahoma
Speaker 1: state ties. Was coach Dickey's assistant in Texas Tech later on,
Speaker 1: and his dad, Larry Hayes, was the all time great
Speaker 1: baseball coach here at Texas Tech. UM. So that was
Speaker 1: a great year, you know, being at the four year
Speaker 1: level and finally getting a paycheck. And then he went
Speaker 1: to North Texas. Yeah, so back to the Texas roots.
Speaker 1: Being at Texas and undergrad. Vic truly was one of
Speaker 1: the assistants for coach Penders. That relationship got me to
Speaker 1: the Division one level. I think at the time I
Speaker 1: might have been the youngest full time assistant Division one.
Speaker 1: I only know that because my mom's got a Basketball
Speaker 1: Times article I think still in the house. I read
Speaker 1: when I go home. Well, what those two really good
Speaker 1: years with Vic? What what do your parents think this
Speaker 1: whole time? Like, like my my dad's parents thought he
Speaker 1: was crazy. You know he started he uh he was
Speaker 1: his first job was like he graduated from Colombia with
Speaker 1: a master's degree, and he went to coach at Fair
Speaker 1: Law In High school in New Jersey, where he replaced
Speaker 1: Hub Brown. Like my my, my grandparents thought he was crazy,
Speaker 1: like actually had him talk to a psychologist where they
Speaker 1: thought because he loved basketball so much, like he's got
Speaker 1: something gotta be wrong with this this guy. What do
Speaker 1: your parents think when here you are, great student in
Speaker 1: high school, good basketball player, and you know, you think
Speaker 1: about leaving Texas and then you're taking all these jobs.
Speaker 1: Like what's what's the advice they're giving you at the time? Yeah,
Speaker 1: same same neighborhood man. They think I'm crazy too. Um.
Speaker 1: I do think my dad told me one thing early on,
Speaker 1: kind of like cliche advice. That's it's true. You know,
Speaker 1: you try to find something that you love to do. Um,
Speaker 1: and you know it's obviously it's since a young age.
Speaker 1: I just love basketball. Um. The cool thing about my
Speaker 1: old man, though, he's like he's so loyal, you know,
Speaker 1: he's like, you give him a T shirt, He's just
Speaker 1: like where is it? Until he can't wear it anymore.
Speaker 1: So as I changed jobs from time to time, I
Speaker 1: was like, Dad, you want to just kind of clear
Speaker 1: that out. I can get you a lot of gear.
Speaker 1: Now you know my text tech You've got to a
Speaker 1: budget and he's like, no, I still like that shirt,
Speaker 1: So I'll go home. He'll be wearing like a Corner
Speaker 1: Words shirt next day, Fort Scott Community College, next week,
Speaker 1: Seminole North Texas, a little Rock South Carolina Warriors. He
Speaker 1: has them all, like, he literally has like a call
Speaker 1: the full of two shirts. But he's so stinking loyal
Speaker 1: that he won't get rid of him. He just keeps
Speaker 1: them in the rotation. That's that's awesome. Okay, So, uh,
Speaker 1: you're what twenties six and you get the Fort Scott
Speaker 1: job twenty six? What was the process like of your
Speaker 1: Division one assistant and decide I want to be ahead? Like,
Speaker 1: did you decide I want to be a head coach?
Speaker 1: Did it just present itself? Uh? You know what? Why
Speaker 1: why leave a Division one job instead of trying to
Speaker 1: get another Division one job? Go to j C. You know,
Speaker 1: I spent a lot of time earlier in my career
Speaker 1: and I still do asking the advice of people that
Speaker 1: I respect, Like just this past week on the road,
Speaker 1: you know, I run into coach right, who has been
Speaker 1: so great to me since the Villanova game of course
Speaker 1: they beat us, you know, kind of nice. It's easy
Speaker 1: to be nice to somebody, you'd be but um, but
Speaker 1: I you know, try to, like those two or three
Speaker 1: minutes I had with him between games, try to ask
Speaker 1: him something you know, valuable. And spent some time with
Speaker 1: Bill self this past week on the road, but always
Speaker 1: asking people kind of like advice on how to how
Speaker 1: to get through this deal. And early on, I think
Speaker 1: the thing that I realized was like everybody's advice is
Speaker 1: kind of different, and I came up with my own idea.
Speaker 1: You know, if there's no right path, if there was
Speaker 1: a right path to a head coaching job of success,
Speaker 1: everybody would take it. Well, I think you got to
Speaker 1: just kind of get a path that you're comfortable with
Speaker 1: and and don't look back. You know. It's like I
Speaker 1: tell our players, there's no right decisions in life. You
Speaker 1: make the decision, then you make it right. Um. And
Speaker 1: so with us, I was just sitting there, you know,
Speaker 1: in North Texas, really happy working for big Division one level,
Speaker 1: really close to my hometown Irving. We had good players, Um,
Speaker 1: but I just felt like, you know, I gotta get
Speaker 1: some head coaching experience, and I just thought that was important,
Speaker 1: so many reasons, maybe at the top of the list
Speaker 1: that I wasn't a great college player. I just felt
Speaker 1: the need to get out there and see if I
Speaker 1: could really get this done. So I just started applying
Speaker 1: for head coaching jobs, and and Kevin Gundy, who was
Speaker 1: the a d at Fort Scott Community College, really gave
Speaker 1: me the break of all breaks and gave me a
Speaker 1: head coaching job at a young age. I went there,
Speaker 1: rolled up the sleeves and kind of figured out, yeah,
Speaker 1: I can do this. Okay, So but you're coaching philosophy
Speaker 1: at the time. You know, like all these different people
Speaker 1: that you played for, that you worked for, they all
Speaker 1: had a vast array of styles. But in your mind,
Speaker 1: we all kind of do this. Man, if I ever
Speaker 1: get a team this so I'm gonna play. How did
Speaker 1: you play it at at Fort Scott. Well, I've always
Speaker 1: believed in defense, you know. It started as a as
Speaker 1: a as a player. It's the way I could get
Speaker 1: on the court, be a guy that my coach could
Speaker 1: trust to defend and not foul and play the game
Speaker 1: the right way. My high school coaches were defensive minded.
Speaker 1: Coach Pender's obviously defense with pressing and trapping and being aggressive.
Speaker 1: Danny Casper one of the best half court defensive coaches,
Speaker 1: and that kind of a combination of both. So I
Speaker 1: came into that job knowing like, hey, we're gonna guard,
Speaker 1: and I'd wide recruited junior college for a couple of years.
Speaker 1: I've seen a lot of good talent teams that looked
Speaker 1: the park, but they didn't guard. So I knew from
Speaker 1: day one and we're going to defend. Whether that's the
Speaker 1: pressure or contained, we'll see what kind of players would get,
Speaker 1: but we're gonna guard. Then. I've always been a guy
Speaker 1: who just understanding, man, look you gotta have the players.
Speaker 1: Like what's happened here at Texas Tech. I appreciate everybody's
Speaker 1: compliments that it means a lot to me, but at
Speaker 1: the bottom line is, you know, this past year we
Speaker 1: had three NBA players on our team, Keenan Evans and
Speaker 1: I are Smith. I think Zack Smith's right there as well.
Speaker 1: It's had a bad injury, and so I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: this coaching deal is a little overrated. You better go
Speaker 1: get some guys who can play and want to play
Speaker 1: for you. And I learned that growing up. You know,
Speaker 1: at the Park, we play at the park on the nights,
Speaker 1: and you know, and Irving, we played the Conflints and
Speaker 1: there'll be thirty five guys deep. You know, it's like
Speaker 1: it's your next game. You better win or you're not
Speaker 1: gonna play for another two hours. Not if you're really,
Speaker 1: really good, so By might pick you up. But I wasn't.
Speaker 1: So I learned at a young age, I better get
Speaker 1: with the best players here so we can stay on
Speaker 1: the court. So back to the junior college days sports
Speaker 1: scot we went out and got us some dudes. We
Speaker 1: had some real players. Um we we taught him how
Speaker 1: to play defense. We had a good, unselfish culture, and
Speaker 1: and we went to work. Whenever I see those guys,
Speaker 1: I just saw Sean Mason the other day. His son
Speaker 1: is on the AUTH circuit now. Sean played for US
Speaker 1: at Scott. But almost kind of apologize those guys, like, hey, man,
Speaker 1: I wish I would have been better coach back in
Speaker 1: those days. What I don't apologize for is how we
Speaker 1: treated them and how we guarded and how we tried
Speaker 1: to do things right. But obviously I'm a better coach
Speaker 1: today than I was back in those days. Are you
Speaker 1: gonna selling off for a year and then how did
Speaker 1: you get How did you tell me how the relationship
Speaker 1: with coach Knight started? I know that he's really close
Speaker 1: to Danny Janny Casper, I know. I mean all those
Speaker 1: texts guys, Bob and I gets the job at Texas Tech.
Speaker 1: How did you come onboard? Yeah, that's a great story,
Speaker 1: you know. And I really didn't even realize how he
Speaker 1: got the job until I got here and just kind
Speaker 1: of pinching myself and thinking pat Night every time I
Speaker 1: walked by his office. But um, it's so true. Like
Speaker 1: I tell our players all the time, you got to
Speaker 1: treat everybody with class in life. You never know who's
Speaker 1: gonna help you or who's gonna hurt you. Um, every relationship,
Speaker 1: supporting everything matters. And the Texas Tech break for me was,
Speaker 1: you know, when I was coaching at Fort Scott Community College,
Speaker 1: Jerry Mullen, uh, the you know, the nation's number one
Speaker 1: junior college guy. He lives in in Kansas City and
Speaker 1: Fort Scott happened to be maybe the quickest Juico he
Speaker 1: could get to. So even without me knowing, he came
Speaker 1: to games from time to time not only to evaluate
Speaker 1: our team, but basically to see who we were playing
Speaker 1: that night, So if Seward came to Fort Scott, that
Speaker 1: was his chance to watch Stewart him and I think,
Speaker 1: you know, we coach right, and we treat our guys
Speaker 1: the right way, and we try to respect the game.
Speaker 1: And um So when Coach Night he took that one
Speaker 1: year off from coaching, he was getting organized. He had
Speaker 1: two or three job offers, Texas Tech being one of them.
Speaker 1: He made a couple of calls and he called Jerry
Speaker 1: Mullan said, hey, I'm putting this team together. I think
Speaker 1: if I take X job, why job Z job? I
Speaker 1: might have to you know, allounge junior college players, especially
Speaker 1: at the first and Coach Mullen, even though me and
Speaker 1: him didn't have a great relationship or didn't know each
Speaker 1: other well, he recommended me. He's like, hey, there's a
Speaker 1: young guy down of Fort Scott's actually from Texas that
Speaker 1: I've seen his team play several times. So I think
Speaker 1: Jerry Molan a million times since then, almost to the
Speaker 1: point where he rolls his eyes when he sees me coming.
Speaker 1: But it's just a great example for all of us
Speaker 1: that sometimes the people that you don't even know what
Speaker 1: are the people that help you if you try to
Speaker 1: do things right. Okay, but did did you call? Did
Speaker 1: they call you? Did coach Knight call you? To Pat?
Speaker 1: Call you? Like? How did how did the contact begin? Yeah?
Speaker 1: So I think coach was really close to taking a job.
Speaker 1: There's about two or three on the table. Um. I
Speaker 1: think Pat was coaching a Acorn at the time, but
Speaker 1: he was starting to get organized, knowing he's gonna make
Speaker 1: a move a coach. And I just got a call
Speaker 1: one day, um, because actually from Karen Knight coaches. Why
Speaker 1: she's called the house before cell phones. Back in those days,
Speaker 1: I had the old school answer machine next to my bed.
Speaker 1: I'll never forget. It was like a Saturday morning after
Speaker 1: the season, so it's been like late March Providence, real early,
Speaker 1: like real early phone rings. And if you can hear
Speaker 1: the message, like hey, Chris, is Karen Night, Bob Knight's wife.
Speaker 1: He wants to talk to you about a couple of players. Well,
Speaker 1: I thought it's a print call. I got all sorts
Speaker 1: of buddies, man, we give each other ship all the time.
Speaker 1: I thought it was an absolute print call. So I
Speaker 1: did not return the call. I didn't even blink at it.
Speaker 1: Later that afternoon, when I got home from the office,
Speaker 1: there was another message, and you could tell Karen's voice
Speaker 1: was changed a little bit, like, Hey, Chris, is my
Speaker 1: second message too? Then I started thinking, man, this might
Speaker 1: be like half we legit. So I made a call,
Speaker 1: found out the coach's wife's name sure was Karen, and I,
Speaker 1: of course I called back to the afternoon, probably made
Speaker 1: up some kind of excuse that I didn't get the messages. Um,
Speaker 1: But basically coach was going around dung and looking at
Speaker 1: some of the best unsigned players in the country back
Speaker 1: in those days with the rules that was completely the
Speaker 1: legal because he didn't have a job. He came out
Speaker 1: to seminole, spent the time with me, um, and you know,
Speaker 1: and everything worked out. I got the job. One of
Speaker 1: our guys went with me. When when you, uh, did
Speaker 1: you know him before he came out of seminole. I
Speaker 1: did not it, never met him, but it obviously been
Speaker 1: a huge fan growing up, I mean from season on
Speaker 1: on the Brain. The first book I ever read, I
Speaker 1: was supposed to read Where the Red Fern Grows in
Speaker 1: fourth grade, just loving Worth, but I didn't read it.
Speaker 1: My brother had the Cliff Notes. First time I learned
Speaker 1: about Cliff notes. Was the fourth grade. Not a big
Speaker 1: reader again girls movies, NBA basketball, reading what on the list?
Speaker 1: But I did read Season on the brain too. I
Speaker 1: had an infatuation with coach day one. Okay, so he
Speaker 1: shows up at seminal like did you play cool? Did
Speaker 1: you meet him in his car? Like? What's I mean?
Speaker 1: Because because I do think that one thing unfortunately with
Speaker 1: you know, he might of coach a little too long
Speaker 1: and they went to TV. And so I think people's
Speaker 1: perspective when you say coach night now might be different
Speaker 1: of those of us who grew up loving ball right
Speaker 1: like my dad used to when he was when he
Speaker 1: was the Army, he used to go to his clinics
Speaker 1: and then when was it in the end he go
Speaker 1: to his cline. Still I still have notes my dad
Speaker 1: took when he because he used to an offense called
Speaker 1: the California reverse and and I still have those those
Speaker 1: those notes my Dad's how house that my mom still keeps.
Speaker 1: So this is basketball Royalty shows up at Seminole Junior
Speaker 1: College at your school. You've an't been a head coach
Speaker 1: for two years now, two different junior colleges. What do
Speaker 1: you do you remember anything about that? Meeting. Absolutely. I
Speaker 1: remember Karen it called the night before and set up
Speaker 1: some my lodgings for Coach and I really I was
Speaker 1: trying to encourage her to tell Coach to stay in
Speaker 1: Oklahoma City. I could come get in the next mory
Speaker 1: or whatever. Then it got back to me that no,
Speaker 1: that's not how Coach rolls. He wants to stay right
Speaker 1: there in town, which now I understand knowing Coach, he's
Speaker 1: not kind of like a big time kind of you
Speaker 1: know perception, He's he's real man. He would rather be
Speaker 1: at the motel sixth and the then the West End.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's just Coach night. That's why he's beautiful.
Speaker 1: But anyway, so he ends up staying. We have one
Speaker 1: hotel and similar the time called the Seminal End right
Speaker 1: across from the campus. Great dive bar in there by
Speaker 1: the way like that, that's not a part of the stories. No,
Speaker 1: that's good. Wait what's the dive bar? This is this
Speaker 1: is good? What's the dive bar? It's just a great
Speaker 1: spot day like Dollar Draft on Wednesdays or something like that. Um. Anyway,
Speaker 1: so back to Coach. I went over to pick him
Speaker 1: up that morning. It's like a maybe Monday Tuesday morning
Speaker 1: the time or something, and I never forget. The doors
Speaker 1: just kind of cracked since I kind of knocked the door,
Speaker 1: and he's just like, come on in, and I'm he's
Speaker 1: like drying off from the shower and sit down on
Speaker 1: the butt on the bed. We like literally talking basketball
Speaker 1: five minutes and when I'm met him, but just the
Speaker 1: most down to earth guy, just loves basketball. Like he's
Speaker 1: the perception of what people think Coach Night is and
Speaker 1: who he is just so far off. He's like a
Speaker 1: really really good person that's easy to talk to in
Speaker 1: the whole, you know, when when he's when he's respects.
Speaker 1: I guess the person he's with done a great thing
Speaker 1: about that. That Later that day, after he'd watched our
Speaker 1: players and spend the time together, I told myself that
Speaker 1: I was gonna kind of get the nerve up to
Speaker 1: ask him, you know, especially at the Texas Tech job.
Speaker 1: Happened to me being from Texas, you know, what was
Speaker 1: he gonna do with his staff? I really wasn't like
Speaker 1: star struck at the times. I've met so many people
Speaker 1: Ludols and Jerry Tarkanian, you name it, over the years
Speaker 1: at junior college. So we're to let a star struck deal,
Speaker 1: so I was kind of in my element. I got
Speaker 1: my courage up driving down to the Oklahoma City Airport.
Speaker 1: This is before nine eleven, so you didn't have to
Speaker 1: go through security. So I made it all the way
Speaker 1: to the gate because slightly is in like thirty minutes.
Speaker 1: I'll never forget. We're sending at this little bitty round table.
Speaker 1: We're both eating pizza. People are coming up to Coach
Speaker 1: trying to get autographs. He's he's gracious, he does it,
Speaker 1: but when the food starts, he's politely telling people, hey,
Speaker 1: can wait a second, will eat. I finally get my courage.
Speaker 1: I've done and I was like, hey, Coach. I was like,
Speaker 1: I'm not sure what you're gonna do with your staff,
Speaker 1: especially if you take the tech job, but um, I
Speaker 1: just wanted to tell you. I know you have a
Speaker 1: lot of people, anybody you wanted, but nobody you know
Speaker 1: would work harder to be more appreciative than me. And
Speaker 1: he kind of cut me off. And I'll never forget
Speaker 1: this one of my great life lessons I tell the
Speaker 1: players every year. I really believe this coach kind of
Speaker 1: looked at me. He was wiping it the pepperoni kind
Speaker 1: of off his mouth and he said, Chris, look, I've
Speaker 1: never been concerned with how how hard somebody works, like
Speaker 1: that's a given. I'm much more concerned with who can
Speaker 1: get what done? And I'll never forget he said that.
Speaker 1: I like, Um, I tell everybody that I respect and
Speaker 1: everybody I coached that story because I think in our
Speaker 1: business one thing I don't like because he's self promoters
Speaker 1: and he's a worker. He works hard. Ship, we all
Speaker 1: work hard. You're not working hard, you don't win. But
Speaker 1: what I'm really interested in with our staff is who
Speaker 1: can get things done? Okay, so you get to Tech
Speaker 1: and he takes over a program and I knew it
Speaker 1: so well because we played against him, you know, and
Speaker 1: I love coach Dickey. He's a good man. Obviously, they
Speaker 1: had some academic stuff which caused them, you know, to
Speaker 1: not be able to have all their scholarships, and and
Speaker 1: they weren't great, but they weren't bad either. So how
Speaker 1: did I mean, Look, that thing got going in like
Speaker 1: a year, right, I mean first year? I think you
Speaker 1: guys made made the tournament. What when when you look
Speaker 1: back at Tech and how coach Knight turned that thing around?
Speaker 1: So quickly, and I know Andre Emmett some of those
Speaker 1: guys are already there. What were a couple of things
Speaker 1: that that he did and that you still to this
Speaker 1: day that you know, that's that's the magic of what
Speaker 1: made Bob Knight. But I think the first thing you
Speaker 1: hit it on the head. You gotta give Coach Dicky credit.
Speaker 1: We inherited all conference players and Andre mm and Andy Ellis.
Speaker 1: This always happens, you know. I try to tell people
Speaker 1: every chance I get how fortunate we were to follow
Speaker 1: Steve Shilds at lew Rock and Tubby Smith the Texas Tech.
Speaker 1: It always perturbs me when a guy comes into a
Speaker 1: job and doesn't embrace or acknowledge what the last guy did.
Speaker 1: Coach Knight was great about that. I remember vividly him
Speaker 1: talking to Coach Dicky on the phone one day, like
Speaker 1: a month or two months and us being a love it.
Speaker 1: I thought that was one of the coolest things I've
Speaker 1: ever seen. Um. But we inhered good players. We also
Speaker 1: recruited very well right off the bat. Probably can sip
Speaker 1: pal the tender college player. We brought in Ronald Ross,
Speaker 1: one of the all time greats who's on our staff
Speaker 1: right now here in Texas Tech. So the combination of
Speaker 1: embracing and coaching and welcoming the returning players and then
Speaker 1: adding new players gave us a chance to be competitive.
Speaker 1: And then I'll never forget how just simplified Coach made
Speaker 1: everything like every day we had some things we got
Speaker 1: to get done, and we got them done. He kind
Speaker 1: of eliminated all distractions. He had great people around him
Speaker 1: handling a lot of things, and coach just really focused
Speaker 1: on the basketball. But that first team was with the
Speaker 1: biggest increase in wins and college basketball, and we basically
Speaker 1: went from I think the bottom of the Big twelve
Speaker 1: to third or four that made the tournament the first year. Um.
Speaker 1: In terms of recruiting, did he empower you? Did he
Speaker 1: say you can offer a player? Did he have to
Speaker 1: come see him? How did it work? That's another great question.
Speaker 1: And he really trusted his coaches. People asked me that
Speaker 1: all the time, like were you able to coach with coach?
Speaker 1: I mean the answers absolutely, I mean you had to.
Speaker 1: He wouldn't be here he he UM. You know. Obviously
Speaker 1: having Pat on the staff was really special because he
Speaker 1: had such a trust factory was his dad and kind
Speaker 1: of knew exactly what we were doing, and as the
Speaker 1: other assistance myself and Bob Bye at the time, we
Speaker 1: really relied on Pat had to kind of point us
Speaker 1: in the right direction. And he did. You know, Pat,
Speaker 1: like I do, one of the most unselfish, best guys
Speaker 1: you'll ever meet. Um, go back to coach. It was
Speaker 1: just a level of simplicity. You know, we're gonna run
Speaker 1: the motion, We're gonna play a man and man, we're
Speaker 1: gonna work hard every day. He was just kind of
Speaker 1: the master of keeping things simple. He also kind of
Speaker 1: embraced the three point shot, like he struggled with that.
Speaker 1: He hated the three when he was in Indiana and
Speaker 1: you guys shot a lot more threes. Was that discussion
Speaker 1: the staff had, was that Pat pushing him to it?
Speaker 1: What what changed? Uh? That's a good question right from
Speaker 1: my point of view coming in, I just know the
Speaker 1: coach valued shot selection so strong, like that's probably the
Speaker 1: first thing about offense. He told me that one time
Speaker 1: I'm on a large, a long car ride back he
Speaker 1: goes Dodge City, Kansas, and Um, you know, Chris, the
Speaker 1: most important thing offensive shot selection. And you know we
Speaker 1: had some good shooters. If you were a guy to
Speaker 1: good stroke and that he's gonna let you shoot it.
Speaker 1: I mean, you're gonna have the green light. But if
Speaker 1: you're a guy that's not a great shooter, you have
Speaker 1: to understand that, hey, we're going to get a good shot. Um.
Speaker 1: But I think it's probably because the game changed a
Speaker 1: little bit and coach changed right there with it was
Speaker 1: he you mentioned he was great to work for, he
Speaker 1: lets you coach. What was he like at that stage
Speaker 1: in his career for the players? You know, obviously he
Speaker 1: has a reputation of being super fiery and at times
Speaker 1: difficult to play for. When you watch him and how
Speaker 1: he treated his players, how would you relay that? You know, Like,
Speaker 1: if you if you wanted to be coached and you
Speaker 1: wanted to get a degree and you wanted to win,
Speaker 1: then you had no problem with coach Night. It was
Speaker 1: the guys that kind of always had alternate deals. Were
Speaker 1: all coaches struggle with those players? But um, the thing
Speaker 1: about coach I mean, he wasn't gonna sit here and
Speaker 1: try to be your best friend every day, but you
Speaker 1: knew he had your back. We've got Darryl dor on
Speaker 1: our staff now, and Daryl was one of the great
Speaker 1: players played for coach for four years and Darryl has
Speaker 1: some stories that I didn't even know. But spending time
Speaker 1: with Darrel the last couple of years, like when Daryl
Speaker 1: was a freshman coming from Gonzalez, Texas and kind of
Speaker 1: tought life to that point. He said that a couple
Speaker 1: of times Coach would check on a phone call Um
Speaker 1: stopped by the locker room after practice. Hey, Daryl, come
Speaker 1: here and talk to you. These are things that no
Speaker 1: one really understands. I mean, you don't. You're not the
Speaker 1: best coach in the history of the game without understanding
Speaker 1: the personal element too. Um. But Coach was never fake,
Speaker 1: but he was always real and I think the players
Speaker 1: knew that he had their back. And yeah, he wasn't
Speaker 1: easy to play for. UM, but I think if you
Speaker 1: asked players at any school that wins like Coach did,
Speaker 1: I mean, nobody's easy to play for him. It's a
Speaker 1: competition at the highest level. Okay, you have you love
Speaker 1: what a burger? Right, and I know that very well.
Speaker 1: I've listened your press conferences. You always mentioned how much
Speaker 1: you love what a burger? So I want you to
Speaker 1: first first your order what a burger is, what breakfast
Speaker 1: lunch or late night. Oh that's a good question. Breakfast
Speaker 1: you go, bob? Do you go breakfast in a bun?
Speaker 1: Is that what you do? Now? I go t keto? Okay,
Speaker 1: so but I see I thought unsweetened tea only existed
Speaker 1: on this earth for one purpose, and that was to
Speaker 1: be sweetened. But I could be wrong. Um, okay, let's
Speaker 1: do late night. So late night order? What a burgers? What? Well?
Speaker 1: What's you guy to do? Late night? Has you got
Speaker 1: to see how many people are in there? You know,
Speaker 1: like if the drive through is really backed up, I'm
Speaker 1: going to go in. If you go in, you know,
Speaker 1: if you start getting fancy and stuff, you don't have
Speaker 1: to wait longer. So really late. Now, to try to
Speaker 1: keep it really simple, I'll just go with the number
Speaker 1: one mustard pickle cheese only. I'll go spicy catchup. I'll
Speaker 1: go unsweet tea if my girlfriends there. If she's not there,
Speaker 1: I'm going to milkshake. And then if she asked me
Speaker 1: the next morning, I get a milkshake. I'm probably white line. Okay,
Speaker 1: So you get a milkshake, you get a number one.
Speaker 1: You're sitting in the corner and you've got some got
Speaker 1: some of your old got got some of your old players,
Speaker 1: and a couple of assistance and just you know, just
Speaker 1: Texas basketball dudes. And I know that sometimes this will
Speaker 1: happen having a beer as well. But let's just picture
Speaker 1: what a burger, right, give me your give me your
Speaker 1: best Bob Night, give me the one, all right, my
Speaker 1: go to Bob Knight's story, go to go with man.
Speaker 1: We had a let's see, there's so many of them,
Speaker 1: probably in that element when the guys are then, you
Speaker 1: know the kind of things they like to hear. One
Speaker 1: of the things we would always do is at basketball
Speaker 1: camp in the summer. You know, Coach was really involved
Speaker 1: in camp. A lot of these guys just kind of
Speaker 1: show up, shake hands, take pictures. Coach was there. I
Speaker 1: mean he was there at all the sessions, and he
Speaker 1: was invested and he would watch games and stuff. And
Speaker 1: that's one thing I always kind of looked up to
Speaker 1: him for. And we try to do the same thing
Speaker 1: with our camps here in the summers. I'd like to
Speaker 1: think that our staff is involved with anybody. But anyway,
Speaker 1: back the coach days, you know, like we always knew
Speaker 1: he was coming in the mornings after stretch and he
Speaker 1: would sit at the main table and he would watch
Speaker 1: a little bit, maybe check some mel be there, but
Speaker 1: he was gonna be at that table early in the
Speaker 1: morning what he did. So we would always take the
Speaker 1: camp coach that we wanted to pick on, maybe the
Speaker 1: guy that had been out too late the night before,
Speaker 1: maybe the guy we were just trying to you know,
Speaker 1: give a give a welcome to camp, and we would
Speaker 1: put him right in front of coach and give him
Speaker 1: like a defensive station or something to like. Um, one
Speaker 1: year is actually a junior college assistant that me and
Speaker 1: Pat invited to come work camp. He was there and
Speaker 1: we put him in front of like I don't know,
Speaker 1: lane denial or shell drill or something, right there in
Speaker 1: front of coach. Well, you know, we kind of left
Speaker 1: him out to drag, so we didn't really tell him
Speaker 1: exactly how coach teaches things. And sure enough, every year,
Speaker 1: like clockwork man, you just see coach sitting there and
Speaker 1: keeps glancing up and eventually just gets the point where
Speaker 1: he he can't mistake, he can't let mistakes go on
Speaker 1: where he coaches, and he would just get up and
Speaker 1: basically kind of ripped the camp coach and stuff and
Speaker 1: we'd be in the background watching the whole thing. But
Speaker 1: it was priceless. Every summer. We could execute it every
Speaker 1: time we wanted here. It's amazing. Alright, So, uh, you
Speaker 1: decide you go to you go back to being a
Speaker 1: head coach. Um when it went in South Carolina, didn't you?
Speaker 1: Didn't you go to the A B A before you
Speaker 1: got back to college. I'm Doug, you've never heard of
Speaker 1: the South Carolina Hey man. I played for the I
Speaker 1: don't remember how about this. I played in Phoenix in
Speaker 1: the A B A. I don't know the nickname of
Speaker 1: the team I played for. I swear to guy. I
Speaker 1: was in Israel and mass Track was a coach of
Speaker 1: the Phoenix team in the A B A. And uh
Speaker 1: I had I didn't. I didn't like my coach in Israel.
Speaker 1: Like he was he was a good coach. We just
Speaker 1: butted heads and like there's one Israeli guy, Guy Guy
Speaker 1: Contour who could play, and they had to have an
Speaker 1: Israeli out in the court, and so the only only
Speaker 1: guy who could really was replaceable was me because otherwise
Speaker 1: all the other Israelis couldn't play. So like we would
Speaker 1: his butt heads constantly and they would do. They would
Speaker 1: do ship like it'd be you're supposed to get paid
Speaker 1: on the first and every month, but they would wait
Speaker 1: until the wait until like the shekel versus the dollar
Speaker 1: was a better ratio. They wait like four or five
Speaker 1: days and saved like seventy bucks. And I was just
Speaker 1: getting pissed about it. So finally I go to them
Speaker 1: and I was like, look, I'll stay the whole time
Speaker 1: and I would have to stay and do like this
Speaker 1: basic training, but you have to promise me I'm gonna
Speaker 1: get all my money. And the president of the club
Speaker 1: was like, we will do the best we can. I
Speaker 1: was like, come on, man, just probably give me your
Speaker 1: word as a man, look me in the eye and
Speaker 1: just say I'll get you all your money. And he
Speaker 1: wouldn't do it. And so I started making calls to
Speaker 1: my agent and I call Mas and Mas is like, look,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna cut I gotta cut my point guard and
Speaker 1: you can come. You can start for me. But like,
Speaker 1: look at the A B A is really good ball,
Speaker 1: but you might get paid, you might not. But NBA
Speaker 1: scouts come and watch. So I know the NBA. I
Speaker 1: swear to god, I don't know the team. The nickname
Speaker 1: of the team. So you went coaching the A B
Speaker 1: A in in South Carolina? Did you get paid? I did? Sometimes?
Speaker 1: We Uh we had four owners in one season. I
Speaker 1: think two of the owners paid. It was always a
Speaker 1: little bit late, but yeah. The cool thing about that, though,
Speaker 1: is how how punks were you when you did get paid?
Speaker 1: You know, like the normal jobs, you get paid every month,
Speaker 1: you know it's coming, but in the A B A
Speaker 1: it's like awesome, like am I gonna get paid? Am
Speaker 1: I not? And when you do, it's just like you
Speaker 1: get the lottery man. Totally, absolutely only that I remember
Speaker 1: my my first So I flew back from Israel. I
Speaker 1: joined the Phoenix team. They're in Detroit that we're playing
Speaker 1: the Detroit Dogs. I'll never forget this. People asked all
Speaker 1: the time, like did you feel because I went to
Speaker 1: I can't My A B A was two thousand and three.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna guess yeah, two thousand too. So I've been
Speaker 1: in Israel right after nine eleven, and um uh, people
Speaker 1: ask well did you feel safe there? And I tell
Speaker 1: them all the time. When I landed in Detroit and
Speaker 1: I went to the hotel we stayed in downtown Detroit,
Speaker 1: they gave me. The mass gave me twenty bucks and
Speaker 1: said that's your meal money for the day. And I
Speaker 1: had to walk to mcdonaldson. Was like a ten minute
Speaker 1: walk through downtown Detroit, and I felt less safe during
Speaker 1: that walk. Then I did it anytime in Israel, but
Speaker 1: I ate McDonald's and I balled out. We played two
Speaker 1: games and I got named Todd Bergen, who played at Syracuse.
Speaker 1: He stopped me. He's like, yo, d G was that man.
Speaker 1: So we started shaking hands. He's like I was like,
Speaker 1: he's like, where have you been. I was like, I
Speaker 1: was in Israel. He's like, what are you as he
Speaker 1: I was in Lebanon. I was like, how is Lebanon.
Speaker 1: He's like, oh, man, beautiful women, a lot of weed.
Speaker 1: I was like, all right, good luck tonight. Anyway. So
Speaker 1: South Carolina four Warrior for for four owners. Um, but
Speaker 1: they also did you guys had the four point the
Speaker 1: three point or four point play if you stole in
Speaker 1: the backcourt. Yeah. I never got into that. You know, like,
Speaker 1: we had a really good team with really good players
Speaker 1: because of the year of the NBA lockout, and guys
Speaker 1: just wanted to go play somewhere. Not only NBA players
Speaker 1: with the whole world kind of froze, you know. Um,
Speaker 1: And so we had a real training camp. Best basketball
Speaker 1: I've ever been a part of, seriously was our training camp.
Speaker 1: We did two days, like five straight days. We had
Speaker 1: guys from Kentucky, North Carolina, Texas to Coastal Carolina. And
Speaker 1: so we get down to the game right the night,
Speaker 1: right before the game, we're the hard Rock Cafe doing
Speaker 1: this event for our owner. And George Tuttle, a West
Speaker 1: Coast guy, I think he's a vanguard right now, was
Speaker 1: a cow State Fullerton great coach. George Tuttle. He's like, beer,
Speaker 1: are you ever going to talk to these guys about
Speaker 1: the four point player of the three D? I think, George,
Speaker 1: I don't night kind out of my comfort zone, man,
Speaker 1: I just want to respect the game. Let's just play.
Speaker 1: So that night we don't do anything. Well, now is
Speaker 1: the next day. We're playing the first game franchise history.
Speaker 1: We got the mayor of Myrtle Beach. She's throwing the
Speaker 1: ball up. We're in the old Coliseum downtown. Is actually
Speaker 1: pretty cool. Right before the game, I mean like right
Speaker 1: before the game, on the floor, Tuttle's like, man, do
Speaker 1: you mind if I say something. I was like, go ahead,
Speaker 1: so totals like, hey, guys, by the way, if you
Speaker 1: get still in the backcourt, this light is gonna go
Speaker 1: off right here, and we get plus one for every
Speaker 1: basket all good luck. Gots just looking at him like
Speaker 1: what are you talking about? So the game starts and
Speaker 1: sure enough, it happens like we were a little soft pressed.
Speaker 1: We get a steal and that light goes on. You know,
Speaker 1: it's plus one for every point. But our guys don't
Speaker 1: know what's going on. But the fans are going crazy.
Speaker 1: So we get back to the huddle. You know, the
Speaker 1: other coach called tom out. We've basically gone like six
Speaker 1: o run but really was like a leven oh round
Speaker 1: in the A B A. And the players are like,
Speaker 1: what is going on? Oh my god, I'll explain tomorrow
Speaker 1: in practice. True story. Okay, so how did you get that?
Speaker 1: So then you go to McMurray and how much different
Speaker 1: a coach are you having been a head coach and
Speaker 1: then been the system for coach. Now you talked about
Speaker 1: when you saw the Fortscott when a couple of guys
Speaker 1: in Portscott you apologize to you which you're a better coach?
Speaker 1: Did you feel different. Did you feel like completely at ease?
Speaker 1: How different was it you take over at McMurray. That's
Speaker 1: a great question. I've always thought about maybe like what
Speaker 1: did a d S think about when they hire people?
Speaker 1: And I think there is a lot of value and
Speaker 1: the guy that was a head coach at maybe a
Speaker 1: young age and then grinded it at that level whatever,
Speaker 1: and then they come back. I think it's just like
Speaker 1: because you have a reference point for what you did before,
Speaker 1: then you obviously learned new stuff. I don't know you
Speaker 1: think about guys like a Steve Fors and success he's
Speaker 1: having just's just a lot of guys that Christ Jan
Speaker 1: There's a lot of guys out there like that. Um
Speaker 1: back to my situation, I obviously had all this wealth
Speaker 1: of knowledge from coach Night and Pat for ten years
Speaker 1: and was itching to kind of get some of that stuff.
Speaker 1: But really the A B A. I've learned so much
Speaker 1: from the players, you know, like I'll be driving to
Speaker 1: the restaurant with you know, Marquees Gainess from TCU and
Speaker 1: all American I just asking me that what was the
Speaker 1: best thing Billy Tubes did or didn't do? So I
Speaker 1: had all this other information from the pro players since
Speaker 1: le mc murray. It was just like a big coaching
Speaker 1: clinic basically just kind of like slept in the office
Speaker 1: every night. I just I couldn't like I had so
Speaker 1: many ideas going through my head at that time. And
Speaker 1: that's really where our philosophy that we're using now kind
Speaker 1: of form. It's amazing because having seen your coach in
Speaker 1: both games and practice, I'm always I'm blown away by
Speaker 1: a couple of things you you do, you um, you
Speaker 1: don't request, you demand eye contact every time you're speaking
Speaker 1: to the team. It seems like you and I don't
Speaker 1: know if you intentionally do this, you use you know,
Speaker 1: you used you know, simple words, are phrases continually, you know,
Speaker 1: kind of to embed them in their head in terms
Speaker 1: of how you want them to play. And so it's
Speaker 1: demanding and you're loud and you're coaching them in practice.
Speaker 1: But if you're around like all you have to do
Speaker 1: is be through one practice like, oh, I get what
Speaker 1: he wants, I'm I understand how he wants to be,
Speaker 1: how he wants to coach you. Uh, Is that is
Speaker 1: that kind of what you're talking about? That is that
Speaker 1: something that you're developing talking to your coaching style. Now, yeah,
Speaker 1: I appreciate you saying that. We meaning that. Like I
Speaker 1: I've always said that coaching is like getting the information
Speaker 1: to the players and eventually getting it execute on the floor.
Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of guys who can sitting
Speaker 1: up hotel booth with you and talk basketball, but then
Speaker 1: they necessarily can't teach it on the floor. You know, communications, everything.
Speaker 1: So we do have a million ideas going through our
Speaker 1: heads and anything we can anything that can help our
Speaker 1: players in any way, We're gonna investigate and think about
Speaker 1: in research and try to try to maybe consider. But
Speaker 1: eventually when it gets to the court, we wanted to
Speaker 1: be a simple situation for the players, you know, we
Speaker 1: want we don't want them thinking out there. We want
Speaker 1: to react and just playing the game. So we do
Speaker 1: have some code words we believe in. You know, whether
Speaker 1: it's money is what we call when we get an
Speaker 1: offensive rebounds on money put back or money pick and
Speaker 1: roll or a money three. The word money something sacred
Speaker 1: to us. The word total, named after George Tuttle, is
Speaker 1: like basically our idea of transition, getting back or attacking
Speaker 1: when we get us still, so keywords like a money
Speaker 1: or a total. These are things that really is the
Speaker 1: foundation of everything we do. Um. All right, So now
Speaker 1: your attack after incredible success in a short period time
Speaker 1: at at at Little Rock and you know, you know,
Speaker 1: first year, you inherit as you've pointed out good players,
Speaker 1: guys like Keenan from from the previous staff, from Tubby staff.
Speaker 1: But you go out and grind. You find a kid
Speaker 1: like like Zaire you know, and Jared Culiver another outstanding
Speaker 1: fine for you. What's that like to find a kid
Speaker 1: that other people that some of the services and some
Speaker 1: of the big schools might have missed on. Give him
Speaker 1: a great chance. He takes advantage of it. But then
Speaker 1: you know, like a year in now of a sudden,
Speaker 1: you've got to replace him. It's like a gift and
Speaker 1: a curse. Yeah, this is kind of new to me,
Speaker 1: you know. Chris Ogden on the staff, we always kind
Speaker 1: of joked around. We called him Silverspoon because you know,
Speaker 1: he went to Texas, played Final Four's coach, never left
Speaker 1: did the one year at Tennessee. And Aggie was the
Speaker 1: best about it because he would embrace it. Ever get
Speaker 1: his feelings hurt and said, hey, guys, I know, like
Speaker 1: what am I supposed to do not not stay in Texas,
Speaker 1: and we'd all laugh, but um, we'd try to tell
Speaker 1: Aggie some stories about Juco or D two or the
Speaker 1: low majors are struggling, and Argue would always be kind
Speaker 1: of like interested in those stories, but would always call
Speaker 1: them silverspoon. Well now, but he'd always told me Beer,
Speaker 1: there's problems on the other side of the tracks too,
Speaker 1: man like, you know, and I'll understand. I respect that,
Speaker 1: So I just wish I could kind of try to
Speaker 1: deal with those problems kind of time. Well, be careful
Speaker 1: what you asked for. You know, there was special We're
Speaker 1: so supportive of him. We were the sixteenth pick in
Speaker 1: the draft. You gotta go, that's a no brainer. But
Speaker 1: now we're on the other end of this deal of
Speaker 1: in the world where we're trying to figure out how
Speaker 1: to you know, it's hard to go out and replace
Speaker 1: his iron may when he declares. So this is the
Speaker 1: other side of it. And I have a great appreciation
Speaker 1: for everybody in basketball, always have. But now I understand
Speaker 1: a little bit more what the Kentucky's and Villanova's and
Speaker 1: Texas do when you lose guys from the one and done.
Speaker 1: There's a whole other side of that, and so you know,
Speaker 1: I was kind of a fortune teller beer there's other
Speaker 1: problems on the other side, and he was certainly right. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, obviously, recruiting transfers is something you have to
Speaker 1: do and something that that you've been able to do
Speaker 1: to be successful. Others in the Big twelve are using
Speaker 1: it as well. Do you have any any Are there
Speaker 1: any a couple of things you do other than calling
Speaker 1: the guy's previous coach? Is there anything you do too
Speaker 1: to know what you're getting? Like, that's a hard thing
Speaker 1: because sometimes these things happen fast. Kid comes, kid comes available,
Speaker 1: he's interested in tech, You watch some tape, you talk
Speaker 1: to some people, and then you've got to make a
Speaker 1: call really really quickly, because sometimes if you don't offer
Speaker 1: him right away, the kid gets upset and he's like,
Speaker 1: why didn't you offer me right away? Even if you're
Speaker 1: doing your due diligence, Do you have a process you
Speaker 1: go through to know what you're getting? Absolutely? One thing
Speaker 1: we really believe in is is the video. You know,
Speaker 1: I tell the guys all the time, let's don't be
Speaker 1: YouTube guys like, don't don't bring me a three minute
Speaker 1: YouTube And tell me about the player. You gotta dig in,
Speaker 1: you gotta work at the end of the day. Even
Speaker 1: though we live in this world where everything is easy
Speaker 1: social media and cell phones, Uber eats, how about that one.
Speaker 1: I can't get past that one. But it's still value
Speaker 1: in his old school work. And so I mean, we're
Speaker 1: gonna lock up and we're gonna watch every game that
Speaker 1: could play. So like Matt Mooney coming from us from
Speaker 1: South Dakota, basically every game map played in his college career. UM.
Speaker 1: And I think that's important for a lot of reasons,
Speaker 1: not just our evaluation process, but also I think the
Speaker 1: player needs to know, like, hey, this coach knows me,
Speaker 1: he knows of my journey, he knows where I've been,
Speaker 1: he knows why I'm transferred. You know. I think that's important. Um.
Speaker 1: Another thing with us with the transfer is it's just
Speaker 1: something I really really believe in and it goes back
Speaker 1: through my whole career, whether it be CHUCO one year guys,
Speaker 1: D two one year guys, a b A, one week guys,
Speaker 1: one month guys. I just think that we have an ability.
Speaker 1: I don't think we're any better than anybody else, but
Speaker 1: I don't think anybody's better than us, and coaching guys
Speaker 1: in one year settings, I just believe in and I
Speaker 1: think we get relationships with guys quickly. We we understand
Speaker 1: and we embraced the idea like hey man, you've got
Speaker 1: thirty one more games guaranteed. This is it. I think
Speaker 1: there is an art to coaching a guy in a
Speaker 1: one year setting, and I think we've been really good
Speaker 1: about it. And I'm not talking about just Texas Tech.
Speaker 1: I'm talking about way back Fort Scott Community College when
Speaker 1: I had Jamal Brown for one year, or at Seminal
Speaker 1: State when we had Will Jones for one year, McMurray,
Speaker 1: when we had to Kobe Jackson for one year. I
Speaker 1: think I think we were were good at that and
Speaker 1: h I it didn't come off as arrogant and boast little.
Speaker 1: It's really confidence and belief. I think we'd because it
Speaker 1: gets when when he got one year to coach a guy,
Speaker 1: I think we get it. Uh, what's Brandsma doing Because
Speaker 1: Thomas Brandsman, he followed you around school to school, right
Speaker 1: Brandsma day. Yeah, So Bransma got done playing in Uh,
Speaker 1: the NBA was not calling. He went to the old
Speaker 1: fields of West Texas and made a bunch of money
Speaker 1: right out of the gates, lived in a trailer in Pecos, Texas.
Speaker 1: Was throwing water line out there, made a lot of money.
Speaker 1: What's what? What is the what is throwing waterline? What
Speaker 1: is I mean? Listen, I mean I live in southern California, man,
Speaker 1: I'm from Orange County. What is throwing waterline? Yeah, so
Speaker 1: basically I don't I'll kind of give you the the
Speaker 1: junior college version here. Uh, it's like, you know, the
Speaker 1: old booms going on out here. So basically, just need
Speaker 1: you need water, need water to get the dird right,
Speaker 1: you need water to clean thing, you need water. But
Speaker 1: there's not a lot of water out here, so beat them.
Speaker 1: Basically just bring water in from different sources. And so
Speaker 1: there's so much oil and so much business out there,
Speaker 1: you know, it's just like unlimited work. So a guy
Speaker 1: like Brandsma, who was in our program for five years
Speaker 1: and understands a little bit about hustling, getting after you know,
Speaker 1: he just gets out there and sees an opportunity and
Speaker 1: seizes it. So they're making all sorts of money out
Speaker 1: of the gates, and then he gets something up. I
Speaker 1: think he falls in love with a girl from Stephenville, Texas,
Speaker 1: which was concerning to me because that's where Carlton was
Speaker 1: and weird Angel State that was our rival. Brands of
Speaker 1: your dating the rival, He's like, Coach, you can't fight love,
Speaker 1: So I understand that. So um, I think with the
Speaker 1: relationship and with the fact that he made a little
Speaker 1: bit of money out of the gates, now he's in
Speaker 1: the real world. He's back and love it. He's working
Speaker 1: a business job that has a kind of an incentive
Speaker 1: based salary, which is good for brandsman, because the competitiveness
Speaker 1: is still there, but here is. As of lately, he's
Speaker 1: been poking around the office a little bit more than normal,
Speaker 1: kind of like look on his face where I think
Speaker 1: he's maybe thinking about getting the basketball disease back, but
Speaker 1: doesn't have the balls enough to ask me yet. But
Speaker 1: I can see in his eyes that I think he's
Speaker 1: gonna be coming into me pretty soon talking about maybe
Speaker 1: getting into coach. And for people who don't know Thomas Brands,
Speaker 1: he started with you McMurray, followed you to Angelo State,
Speaker 1: then went to Little Rock and then of course you
Speaker 1: you know, you took the UNLV job for like it
Speaker 1: was like ten days, and then the Texas Tech job,
Speaker 1: which you've told everybody, eat your dream job. Of course,
Speaker 1: you know it's like a little over an hour from
Speaker 1: your from your daughters. Um, you go right back. He
Speaker 1: followed you to all those stops, and of course, I mean, like,
Speaker 1: I think the least you could do is is, you know,
Speaker 1: find a grad assistant role for him, right or something
Speaker 1: if he wants to if he if he wants to
Speaker 1: get back in this crazy business. That's one side of
Speaker 1: the stories. Some people think that you know, we o Thomas.
Speaker 1: I know I'd be quick to tell you. I mean,
Speaker 1: Thomas kind of benefited from our program. To the guy
Speaker 1: goes from being a division to school paying tuition, so
Speaker 1: he scored a basket against West Virginia. Can imagine what
Speaker 1: his nightlife was that night. The guy has benefited from
Speaker 1: our program too. So there's no doubt that I appreciate
Speaker 1: everything Thomas is gone. But I think Thomas would be
Speaker 1: the first to tell you appreciates what the program is
Speaker 1: given him to. I mean, this girl from steven Ville,
Speaker 1: Doug is not bad looking, you know. I mean Thomas,
Speaker 1: Thomas's life is going in the trajectory, and I would
Speaker 1: like to think of our program had a little bit
Speaker 1: to do with it. Uh, that's that's that's a beauty.
Speaker 1: That's an absolute beauty. All right. Last thing, Um, we're
Speaker 1: waiting on these new n c A rules to determine
Speaker 1: what's open period. It's not open period. You're you and
Speaker 1: your staff. You guys are old school grinders, right like
Speaker 1: you just you want to go watch kids play, You
Speaker 1: want off from a scholarship. You don't pay kids, you
Speaker 1: don't change your grades. Like that's kind of the the
Speaker 1: easy baseline rules to it. If I put you in charge,
Speaker 1: would that just be simply the rules? Do we do?
Speaker 1: We need other periods? So that guys around campus like,
Speaker 1: how would you do it? If they said, hey, Chris,
Speaker 1: you've coached at all different levels of college basketball. You
Speaker 1: know the right way to do it, how would you
Speaker 1: do it? I don't think there's anything wrong with the
Speaker 1: game now, though I think, like, obviously we have some problems,
Speaker 1: but everybody has problems. The business world has problems. I mean,
Speaker 1: I I still go back to the fact that we
Speaker 1: have a great game for that into a tournament and
Speaker 1: Final four is simply the best. Um. College basketball produces
Speaker 1: leaders and good husbands and good men. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: I love our game. It's beautiful. Do we have flaws,
Speaker 1: of course, but every thing as far as I think,
Speaker 1: with the recent FBI do and all that, it brings
Speaker 1: light to some of that stuff. But I you know,
Speaker 1: I think there's another million good positive stories out there
Speaker 1: as well. I know this. Two coaches are gonna just
Speaker 1: you can change the rules from three weeks to two
Speaker 1: to no April to May. But like, eventually, we're all
Speaker 1: basketball guys and we're gonna just in my big view
Speaker 1: of things. And nobody asked me ever, but you are,
Speaker 1: so I'll take advantage of it. I just think you
Speaker 1: gotta put the control of the game back in the
Speaker 1: college coaches hands. And to do that, you gotta let
Speaker 1: the college coaches be with the players. Go repeat the players,
Speaker 1: spend time with them. But it's crazy to me that
Speaker 1: I can only work with my guys two hours a
Speaker 1: week in the summer. The I mean, and look and
Speaker 1: and as you know, and people, I'm sorry to cut
Speaker 1: you off, but like this idea well twenty hour week
Speaker 1: or two hours in the off season. Like look, if
Speaker 1: if you do too much, you're gonna lose the player anyway,
Speaker 1: So you have to measure how much how much you do,
Speaker 1: and you can't. And as much as people say, well,
Speaker 1: you're gonna kill a kid and working them out, like, no,
Speaker 1: you're not. You're gonna He's gonna be in the gym regardless.
Speaker 1: Why not be in the gym under the watchful eye
Speaker 1: of a guy who's been doing it like you for
Speaker 1: years and knows how to take a player from point
Speaker 1: A to point C. Right, I mean, doesn't that make sense?
Speaker 1: It does to me. And then when you don't let
Speaker 1: the coaches work with the players, that's where the outside
Speaker 1: people come in. And I don't blame the players, like
Speaker 1: I mean, like Jared Culver is going to get the
Speaker 1: gym four or five hours a day, seven days a
Speaker 1: week in the summer. That's who he is, is his
Speaker 1: d n A. And I can work with him two
Speaker 1: of those hours and the other hours and he's still
Speaker 1: gonna be in the gym. So I just don't understand it.
Speaker 1: I think you. I would trust the Bill Sells, Coach
Speaker 1: Williams and Coach Huggins. I would put the game in
Speaker 1: Tomzzo's hands. That's what I would do, because I think
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, all of us coaches,
Speaker 1: you know, are are are doing this for the guys
Speaker 1: man like what we are like. I'm not convinced there's
Speaker 1: like a lot of bad guys in our business. I
Speaker 1: just don't believe that. I think most coaches love their players.
Speaker 1: They want to win, and they're gonna and they're gonna
Speaker 1: work their guys accordingly. So that's my big, big picture
Speaker 1: of things. I don't know why they don't just put
Speaker 1: it in the coach's hands. I mean, maybe I'm not
Speaker 1: in the room, I understand, but why wouldn't you get
Speaker 1: coaches though, and coach self and Coach Williams and Coach
Speaker 1: Huggers and coach Krueger. Why wouldn't you get these guys
Speaker 1: in the room and asked them, Hey, what does the
Speaker 1: game need to me? It's that's simple. But you know
Speaker 1: you're talking to a guy that you know lived around
Speaker 1: there BC average. Um, I said the last thing. I
Speaker 1: lied one more. Um. You guys came so close against Nova.
Speaker 1: I mean, you guys did the best job against them defensively.
Speaker 1: You just you miss drives, you miss finishes, and I
Speaker 1: know they look they do a great job of bumping
Speaker 1: it with their lower body, and and and you're playing
Speaker 1: so hard defensively against all the different stuff they do
Speaker 1: that I think that and the pressure takes takes away
Speaker 1: from some of the shooting. But as you self assess,
Speaker 1: is there anything you come out of that lead a
Speaker 1: game thinking you could have done personally better? Yeah, you
Speaker 1: get it. The one that is finishing. Um. I think
Speaker 1: the noh did a great job by keeping their upper
Speaker 1: bodies extended with an not found lower body. My poppies
Speaker 1: and time to time. But to me, that's good, it's
Speaker 1: good coaching. We had seven drives in the second half
Speaker 1: and we uh we we went over seven. You gotta
Speaker 1: make a couple of those. You gotta draw a foul
Speaker 1: and a couple of those. And you know, look, we're
Speaker 1: at no excuse program. Some people talk to me about
Speaker 1: deficiating that game. I'm not buying that. I mean, we
Speaker 1: we just got to get to the point where we
Speaker 1: make those guys call those files. Um. But really, and
Speaker 1: we've already tried to embrace that. We started in the
Speaker 1: spring and it saw them working on finishing around the
Speaker 1: basket one ft two feet lower upper more than ever um.
Speaker 1: And then just I I do think we were ready
Speaker 1: to play that night A lot of people say, well,
Speaker 1: is it just because Villanova had been in that moment
Speaker 1: y'all haven't. I'm not buying that either. We were, we
Speaker 1: were relaxed, we were ready. We just didn't. We just
Speaker 1: didn't play well enough offensively. We held him to thirty
Speaker 1: three percent shooting. If you'd told me before the game
Speaker 1: we could do that, I totally see in San Antonio.
Speaker 1: But we just couldn't manufacture enough offense. Um. But ultimately,
Speaker 1: you gotta get Villanova for credit. It was so hard
Speaker 1: to score against. Maybe the best defense we played against
Speaker 1: all your was Villain. Yeah, and it's I mean, obviously
Speaker 1: for you. It's one thing for anybody to get to
Speaker 1: the final four, but to you to get to the
Speaker 1: final four in the state of Texas at Texas Tech
Speaker 1: would have been would have been incredible. But without without those,
Speaker 1: without a loss, you know it doesn't, uh not. Sometimes
Speaker 1: there's more to learn from a loss there is from
Speaker 1: a win. Hey, you've been more than gracious with your time.
Speaker 1: I know you've gotta figure out. I know you gotta
Speaker 1: figure out what you want to do with Brandsma, if
Speaker 1: you want to add them to staff, I know you
Speaker 1: gotta you gotta send me more videos of Sean Sutton, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, walking around and uh and and forgetting things
Speaker 1: in his room. I appreciate you joining us, and I
Speaker 1: look forward to catching up with you in person. Really
Speaker 1: really kind. That's All Ball, the All Basketball podcast here
Speaker 1: on the Herd Podcast Network. I hope you enjoyed, Chris Beard.
Speaker 1: We'll have another conversation for you next week. Thanks so
Speaker 1: much for joining us. Don't forget to listen to The
Speaker 1: Doug Gotlie Show three to six Eastern talking to three
Speaker 1: Pacific on Fox Sports rated, the I Heart Radio app
Speaker 1: or Serious XM channel eighty three and download subscribe a
Speaker 1: rate Houbor