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Speaker 1: He welcome into All Ball. I'm your host, Dot GOTL.

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Speaker 1: We really appreciate you downloading, describing, and waiting this year's podcast. Uh,

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Speaker 1: this one's gonna be a little bit of a long one,

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Speaker 1: so buckle up. We we have we're we're going to

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Speaker 1: continue to evolve the pod during the off season and

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Speaker 1: because there really is no off season. Last week we

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Speaker 1: talked to a lot of high school hoops and from recruiting.

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Speaker 1: This week we'll talk some college hoops. Chris Beard from

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Speaker 1: Texas Tech is gonna join me, and I don't want

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Speaker 1: to do the let's talk about your players. We'll talk

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Speaker 1: a little bit about the Elite eight, a little bit

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Speaker 1: about you know, losing a one and done first time

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Speaker 1: ever Texas Tech. UH and Chris Beard have lost a

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Speaker 1: one and done. What I want to get to is

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Speaker 1: his kind of mere curial path from being a high

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Speaker 1: school ball player that was set to go to like

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Speaker 1: a D two n a I A level school and

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Speaker 1: UH went to Texas, thought about going back to playing

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Speaker 1: in an n A I A school, finished up at Texas,

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Speaker 1: became a a very young assistant coach. So what I

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Speaker 1: want to get to with Chris Beard is his path

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Speaker 1: to becoming not only a head coach, but a really

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Speaker 1: good one. It's it's he's super interesting, you know. Um,

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Speaker 1: he's a great storyteller. Plus there's some Bob Knight to it, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: don't you want Bob Knight stories? Of course, you want

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Speaker 1: Bob nice stories. I love Bob Knight stories. Before he

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Speaker 1: joins us, I'm gonna give you a Bob Knight's story

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Speaker 1: of my own life. One of the things in the

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Speaker 1: feedback that many of you guys give me tell us

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Speaker 1: more stories. Okay, here's the story. When I was getting

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Speaker 1: to be a freshman for as a freshman at Notre Dame,

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Speaker 1: I got invited to the U S a U S

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Speaker 1: Trials and uh, it was like the undernineteen trials. A

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Speaker 1: matter of fact, it's funny because Tim Duncan was a

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Speaker 1: sophomore maybe going to be a junior. He's really young,

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Speaker 1: and I was an old high school senior, and so

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Speaker 1: he could have played in the maybe it's the eighteen

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Speaker 1: and under or something like that, and he actually played

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Speaker 1: up because he was just so much better than everybody

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Speaker 1: play like the twenty one and under the me and

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Speaker 1: under it. I was on the eight team under. I

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Speaker 1: don't remember how it worked. So um, I was. I

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Speaker 1: was friends of the guy named Charlie Miller. Childie Miller's

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Speaker 1: nicknames Fluke. He's from Miami, Florida, actually played for Frank

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Speaker 1: Martin and uh um, he played for Biami Senior High School. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: so Fluke could come out and stayed at my house

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Speaker 1: and played on my AU team the summer before this

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Speaker 1: is back when you could play kind of out of

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Speaker 1: area stuff. So we used to fly guys in every

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Speaker 1: summer to load up our team. And Charlie is a

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Speaker 1: great dude. He had just completed his freshman year at Indiana,

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Speaker 1: and then Brian Evans was also there, and so I

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Speaker 1: kind of befriended Brian Evans and Charlie and I was,

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Speaker 1: you know, like a little brother to both of them,

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Speaker 1: hanging out around the USA Trials. So and when in

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Speaker 1: basketball and a lot of you guys are coaches or

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Speaker 1: players and you know this, but one of the things

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Speaker 1: that when you play for or work for a vivid

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Speaker 1: personality like a good ice breaker, is give me a

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Speaker 1: give me a story, right, give me a you know,

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Speaker 1: if he had played with a guy who was a

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Speaker 1: whack job, give me a what's it? Called, you know,

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Speaker 1: give me a story, and so I never forget. I said,

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Speaker 1: you know, give me a story about coach Knight. And um,

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Speaker 1: at the time the story what was this that? Uh,

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Speaker 1: they were coming back from Iowa, playing on the road

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Speaker 1: in Iowa, and Indiana's team playing had a chair for

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Speaker 1: Bob Knight up in the front and it could spin

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Speaker 1: around and face the rest of the team and they

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Speaker 1: lost to Iowa. And Coach Knight had a bowl of

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Speaker 1: fruit and he was stewing over his bowl of fruit

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Speaker 1: looking at the statueet and he turned around to look

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Speaker 1: at the team and he started reading the stat line

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Speaker 1: and every negative stat that he would read, he pick

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Speaker 1: up a piece of fruit and throw it at one

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Speaker 1: Greg Graham five turnovers? Are you freaking kidding me? And

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Speaker 1: he started throwing fruit at Greg Graham. And then of

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Speaker 1: course the managers like, what are you supposed to do?

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Speaker 1: You when you get the fruit, your reload coach so

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Speaker 1: that he has his fruit because he wants to eat

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Speaker 1: it or he wants to throw it again. So um,

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Speaker 1: there's all. There's all kinds of There's a famous video

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Speaker 1: out there of Coach Night getting run over. Every most

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Speaker 1: coaches have been run over at practice and that is

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Speaker 1: good is gold? Right? The coaches yelling and streaming, and

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Speaker 1: he forgets that we're transitioning offense to defense. And you know,

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Speaker 1: some of these dudes they get into their forties, fifties, sixties.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes they trip, sometimes they're just old. Sometimes it just

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Speaker 1: surprises them and they fall or they get they just

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Speaker 1: get run over because you know, if you're you're playing uh,

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Speaker 1: you're playing offense, and all of a sudden the shot

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Speaker 1: goes up and he's on your ask to get back

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Speaker 1: and get that back on defense, you turn, you sprint

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Speaker 1: and all there's coach so supposedly also and one of

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Speaker 1: the other stories was that there was a film that

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Speaker 1: they had common to hear from the managers of Coach

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Speaker 1: Night getting run over at practice, and they enjoyed it

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Speaker 1: so much that when they'd have a bad day, they

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Speaker 1: would all go over to Brian Evans apartment and and

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Speaker 1: run it incessantly over and over and over again. Let's

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Speaker 1: watch it again and again. Some has some Bob Nights stories, uh,

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Speaker 1: and some other stories upcoming with Chris beard Um the hoop.

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Speaker 1: I want to get to real quick in terms of

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Speaker 1: the NBA. Is many people reacting now is it's it's

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Speaker 1: set in that Lebron James is going to be a

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Speaker 1: member of the l A Lakers. Now, look, you don't

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Speaker 1: have to agree with my opinion. It's okay, uh, And

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Speaker 1: it's it's not such a strong opinion that it's like

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Speaker 1: this is absolutely the right way and there's no wrong way.

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Speaker 1: I've said for a long time that Michael Jordan is

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Speaker 1: to the greatest player I've ever seen play basketball, and

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Speaker 1: and the struggle I've had with Lebron this is more

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Speaker 1: previous to this year because he had a little bit

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Speaker 1: more of this has has has been that in any

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Speaker 1: basketball game I ever played him, especially like pickup games,

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Speaker 1: and that's kind of way the NBA has always been.

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Speaker 1: You get down game in the line, you get the

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Speaker 1: ball of your best player, and you get the hell

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Speaker 1: all the way and he's gonna go get you a bucket, right.

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Speaker 1: And I understand that Lebron James is wired to to

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Speaker 1: set people up, and he's in credible pastor. He's a

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Speaker 1: really good pastor um. But there was something about the

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Speaker 1: killer instinct that at times he would defer. And while

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Speaker 1: that's great in big situations, you know, it's it's not

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Speaker 1: always great. That's great in some situations, always great in

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Speaker 1: the biggest of situations, as opposed to Jordan, who had

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Speaker 1: to learn to pass as Kobe had to. I don't

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Speaker 1: know if he ever truly learned to trust his teammates,

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Speaker 1: but he did trust Derek Fisher, and Derek Fisher made

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Speaker 1: him look good. Um. I do think there's there's some

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Speaker 1: genius to him, and it was uh to to Lebron

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Speaker 1: and how he plays. But Larry Bird didn't have to

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Speaker 1: learn the pass to to to score down the stretch.

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Speaker 1: Magic Johnson didn't either. So, however you regard Lebron James

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Speaker 1: is the greatest player of all time, the greatest player

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Speaker 1: of this era, I'm okay saying he's the greatest player

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Speaker 1: of this era, even if I thought Kevin Durant in

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Speaker 1: many ways outplayed him in both the past two NBA finals.

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Speaker 1: And I actually think that Lebron James is living a

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Speaker 1: lot on reputation defensively, and Kevin Durant, though his defense

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Speaker 1: wasn't as good most the season as it was the

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Speaker 1: start of the year, and in the playoffs, he has

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Speaker 1: shown the desire to play more defense than he ever did.

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Speaker 1: So whether or not I think he's the best player,

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Speaker 1: now the second best player. It's in arguable over the

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Speaker 1: last decade, he's been consistently the best or one of

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Speaker 1: the top three players in the NBA. Right, we were

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Speaker 1: okay with that. Cool. So he goes to the Lakers,

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Speaker 1: and now people are being critical in many ways, saying, look,

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Speaker 1: Barkley said he wants to be a mogul, and everybody's saying,

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Speaker 1: it's not about winning. And look, I don't think it's

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Speaker 1: solely about winning, but I think that winning is part

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Speaker 1: of the equation. It's just not the only part of

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Speaker 1: the equation. Family location, whether ability to you know, ability

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Speaker 1: to to do something after after basketball, Like, you know,

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Speaker 1: I think he's an incredibly well rounded guy. Now that

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Speaker 1: that may not fit your narrative or what you want

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Speaker 1: for your athletes. And it's interesting because Kobe has found

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Speaker 1: this second passion. Right, here's Kobe Bryant, guy who a

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Speaker 1: lot of people thought, man, he is just not he

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Speaker 1: is just not going to be able to cope. He's

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Speaker 1: not gonna be able to cope with um, with with

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Speaker 1: not having basketball, and he's already won, you know, an Oscar.

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Speaker 1: So we were so scared that Kobe wouldn't know what

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Speaker 1: to do with himself. And at some of the Kobe's curious.

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Speaker 1: He's very bright, and uh, some of it I think

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Speaker 1: was helped out by the fact that he had the

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Speaker 1: year off when he had the Achilles tendon surgery and

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Speaker 1: the rehab. You know, people think you rehab twenty four

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Speaker 1: hours a day. You don't. Kobe also spent more time

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Speaker 1: as a father, you know, started a program for his daughter,

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Speaker 1: a du daughters, both of them soccer than basketball, and

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Speaker 1: he started to develop other interests. Lebron has other interests

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Speaker 1: and he's still a great player. He's what you what

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Speaker 1: you understand when you're in a business is like what

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Speaker 1: you understand is as a student. I remember when he

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Speaker 1: first got to college and you were just overwhelmed by like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I got all these classes, I got this the syllabus

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Speaker 1: to keep up with the reading and the homework and

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Speaker 1: the tests and yeah, by the way, I'm trying to

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Speaker 1: have a social life. And for me, he was lifting

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Speaker 1: in basketball and eating and and being away from home.

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Speaker 1: Like you just your time management skills suck three years

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Speaker 1: into college. Time management skills are awesome. That's no different

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Speaker 1: than now. He's a machine guy's a machine. Gets up,

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Speaker 1: you know, gets up. Most of these guys get up.

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Speaker 1: They work out early. I'll give you an example, Gordon Hayward.

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Speaker 1: I know this for a fact. Gordon Hayward gets up

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Speaker 1: at five, he's in, he's at his his workout place

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Speaker 1: at six. From six to seven, he works on his body, lifting, running,

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Speaker 1: whatever his trainer has him do. And then from seven

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Speaker 1: to eight he works on his game and then he's done,

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Speaker 1: doesn't touch the basketball the rest of the day. That's

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Speaker 1: his offseason routine. And so from eight until whatever, Gordon

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Speaker 1: Hayward is just a dad, and he's just a dad.

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Speaker 1: As we found out, he's gonna be the dad of

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Speaker 1: another daughter, but he's just a dad. Well that's the

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Speaker 1: same for Lebron. Like these guys, they understand how to

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Speaker 1: manage their time. You know, they have drivers, they have chefs,

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Speaker 1: they have trainers, they have guys that just stretched them

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Speaker 1: and take care of their body and within that other time,

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Speaker 1: within that downtime, he's past the video game playing stage.

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Speaker 1: You know, he's past the staring at his phone stage.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, he can be a mogul, but he can

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Speaker 1: also still be a great basketball player. I don't think

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Speaker 1: what Lebron James is. I don't think what Charles Barkley

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Speaker 1: is saying is wrong. I think he is on the

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Speaker 1: downward side of his career, but he's still kind of

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Speaker 1: in the downward side of his prime. Right. He hasn't

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Speaker 1: hit the oh my god, Jason Kidd can't make a

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Speaker 1: lay up stage. He's not close to that. He's he's

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Speaker 1: managed the mileage on his odometer better than anybody in

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Speaker 1: the history maybe of any sport. That's what's really remarkable

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Speaker 1: about him. So, look, it's it's thrown people for a loop,

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Speaker 1: but we all kind of knew it was coming. The

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Speaker 1: roster is a little bit different than you thought. But

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Speaker 1: as I've stated previously on my radio show three to

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Speaker 1: Sixties Tren twelve to three Pacific, The Dug outl Lip Show,

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Speaker 1: Fox Sports Radio, there was no blank slate. You can't

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Speaker 1: create a team out of nothing, and based on what

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Speaker 1: was available, this was the path that they've chosen. Let's

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Speaker 1: get some junkyard dogs, experienced guy is off the bench

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Speaker 1: and see what the young guys got. And so as

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Speaker 1: we react to Lebron James, is that a sure fire

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Speaker 1: championship team? No? But I also think he's a builder.

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Speaker 1: People like the build. This is here's the housing analogy.

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Speaker 1: You know. Some people like to buy a really sick

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Speaker 1: house that somebody else redid and just live in it

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Speaker 1: and and and enjoy life. Some people like going in

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Speaker 1: and buying excuse my language, but a shitter. You know,

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Speaker 1: you go in and you buy something that needs to

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Speaker 1: and they like to, whether they scrape it or they

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Speaker 1: just read you the kitchens in the bathroom and the

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Speaker 1: tile and they paint everything. And then you know they're

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Speaker 1: in it for a couple of years and they're like,

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Speaker 1: now we made profit, let's sell it. Let's move on.

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Speaker 1: Let's move down the street and do the exact same thing.

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Speaker 1: That's who Lebron James's. He likes to redo things. So

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Speaker 1: I have you know, I we knew it was coming.

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Speaker 1: It was a little bit harder than people will allow

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Speaker 1: magic to allow us to believe with magic. Remember magic

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Speaker 1: walked in and Paul George wasn't coming. He had to

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Speaker 1: explain that one away. Even if they had cooled on

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Speaker 1: Paul George and some people saw it coming, the fact

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Speaker 1: is that you're getting ready to have a meeting. You're

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Speaker 1: the only one that has the meeting. And all you

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Speaker 1: gotta do is make the wide open jump shot, and

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Speaker 1: Paul George decides he stay in Oklahoma City. That had

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Speaker 1: to be somewhat of a surprise. So they closed the

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Speaker 1: deal and now everybody reacts. Um. I'll also point out

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Speaker 1: this in regards to the NBA, and this is really important.

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Speaker 1: I think in regards to the NBA, the Oklahoma City

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Speaker 1: Thunder I think got better, more so than anyone outside

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Speaker 1: of the Lakers. They refined their roster first, getting Paul

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Speaker 1: George back year two, He is going to be better.

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Speaker 1: You are more comfortable, You know how to play within

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Speaker 1: the offense, even if they restructure things. You have a

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Speaker 1: better relationship with Russell Westbrook. You know how that you're

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Speaker 1: just more comfortable year two in a college or two

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Speaker 1: in a job. You're just more comfortable. Getting ready to

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Speaker 1: Carmelo Anthony, who they couldn't hide defensively, and they needed

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Speaker 1: to feed the basketball to and get him shots. That's better. Remember,

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Speaker 1: they get Andre Robertson back, who they love because he's

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Speaker 1: such a versatile defender and he has no ego offensively,

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Speaker 1: albeit he's got to make some You just gotta make

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Speaker 1: a shot in order to keep people honest, And then

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Speaker 1: I like the I really like the acquisition of going

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Speaker 1: out and getting getting Dennis Shrewder. Shooder is not a

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Speaker 1: great starting point guard. He's probably bottom five to seven

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Speaker 1: in terms of the starting point guards in the league.

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Speaker 1: Not great. But as they back up, is the sixth

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Speaker 1: man who can move Russell Westbrook off the ball. That's

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Speaker 1: a great get. That's a really really good get. So again,

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Speaker 1: not working with a blank slate. Having Russell Westbrook, did

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Speaker 1: they do they have enough shooting around him? I don't know.

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Speaker 1: You got Paul George, you still got breedness, you got

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Speaker 1: the ability to go small with grant Um, and now

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Speaker 1: you get another guard who can who can defend the

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Speaker 1: basketball and who can get into lane and create shots

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Speaker 1: for himself and for others, for others, is is a

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Speaker 1: bit of a question mark. I like it. I think

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Speaker 1: Oklahoma City is gonna challenge to be the second best

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Speaker 1: team in the West. Whether that they have the second

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Speaker 1: best record in the West, that doesn't really matter. Oklahoma

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Speaker 1: City is gonna be a tough out, a really really

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Speaker 1: tough out. And uh, I'm I'm fascinated to see what

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Speaker 1: happens with the Thunder in regards to the n c

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Speaker 1: A for college basketball. We wait and wait and wait,

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Speaker 1: and we'll find out what the new recruiting rules, what

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Speaker 1: the new calendar looks like. But it does look like

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Speaker 1: it's going to be a combination of the recommendations of

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Speaker 1: the committee and the recommendations of college coaches. I don't

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Speaker 1: know how these camps work, these massive camps run by

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Speaker 1: NBA people and n c A people and somehow taking

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Speaker 1: shoe companies out of it. I hope to be involved.

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Speaker 1: They call me, I may make a call. I'd like

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Speaker 1: to be involved. I think it'd be great for guys

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Speaker 1: that love the game that don't have a specific tie

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Speaker 1: to a specific shoe company or specific AU program that

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Speaker 1: that that's been on the tape. I like that. But

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Speaker 1: I also think it keeps the AU teams going. They'll

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Speaker 1: still be the Peach Dam, they'll still be the Gauntlet,

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Speaker 1: They'll still be other events as well. I don't think

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Speaker 1: that will die. And I think April recruiting period is important.

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Speaker 1: I like the idea getting high school coaches involved, but

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Speaker 1: I also like the idea of keeping college coaches more

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Speaker 1: engaged with their own current players. If it was me,

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Speaker 1: if I was staying the rules. The rules will be

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Speaker 1: there are no rules, right instead of having condensed weekends

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Speaker 1: where you can come out and see kid. Just look,

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Speaker 1: if you want to go on the road, recruit, go

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Speaker 1: on the road recruit. If you're a recruiting assistant coach,

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Speaker 1: you should be allowed to go out whenever you want.

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Speaker 1: This idea that you're gonna bombard players and and be

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Speaker 1: around them too much. If you're around a kid too

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Speaker 1: much and he wants space, he's gonna eliminate you from

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Speaker 1: recruiting him. Everybody likes attention, they don't like creepy attention.

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Speaker 1: So to me, i'm a I'm a less. Rules is more.

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Speaker 1: Don't pay your players, don't change their grades, you know,

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Speaker 1: don't pay people who are gonna pay the players, and

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Speaker 1: don't you know, don't encourage anybody else to change their grades.

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Speaker 1: That that that's kind of it. I know there's gotta

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Speaker 1: be a couple more rules than that, But that's about

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Speaker 1: it for me. But we'll wait to see what happens.

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Speaker 1: We'll start to preview college basketball as well. We continue

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Speaker 1: to update you on NBA stuff. Dwight Howard, by the way,

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Speaker 1: saying this is bouncing back to the NBA saying that

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Speaker 1: the Warriors called. I do think the Warriors wanted a

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Speaker 1: big guy. They want get a big guy in the cheap.

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Speaker 1: They got to Marcus Cousins. They thought they could get

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Speaker 1: Dwight Howard, and then Cousins called him and kind of

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Speaker 1: surprised them. The difference with Cousins and Howard is Cousins

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Speaker 1: is more in his prime and can shoot the basketball,

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Speaker 1: but he's not gonna play until March. Howard can't shoot

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Speaker 1: and is also kind of a weird fit with the

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Speaker 1: personality of that team. Although he's a guy who likes

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Speaker 1: to have fun, they like to have fun playing uh,

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Speaker 1: but playing style wise, he could be an odd fit,

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Speaker 1: especially considering the minutes would be limited that he'd get there.

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Speaker 1: But the money that he got in Washington was the

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Speaker 1: money that he would get in Gold States. So it's

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Speaker 1: reasonable to think they called and then he was usurped

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Speaker 1: and moved. He was he was. He was passed over

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Speaker 1: when they went and got to Marcus Cousins. That's my

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Speaker 1: read on some of the NBA stuff we mentioned some

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Speaker 1: of the college basketballs. One last thing, Ian Williamson weighs

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Speaker 1: out weighs in a two five pounds. He's six five

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Speaker 1: and change pounds. Dude, this this is I mean, he's

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Speaker 1: a tank, but he's got a slim up because his

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Speaker 1: explodes as as most of its an athlete as he is,

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Speaker 1: and he's explosive. Um he it's his ability to make

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Speaker 1: it at the next level is gonna be Kenny easy,

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Speaker 1: agile enough to move out on the floor. He's gonna

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Speaker 1: have to be an undersized foe. Man. They're gonna have

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Speaker 1: to shoot a little bit better, but that's gonna come

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Speaker 1: with with work ethic got learned to play harder on defense,

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Speaker 1: but he has a lot of He has the god

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Speaker 1: given athletic ability, but he needs to be playing in

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Speaker 1: the two fifties to sixties. He always wish whatever Villanova

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Speaker 1: does with those guys to slim down, that's what Duke

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Speaker 1: should do. So as I'm I'm getting ready for the

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Speaker 1: Duke Kentucky's maybe even to Carolina if they figure out

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Speaker 1: their point guard situation. U c l A should be loaded. Uh.

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Speaker 1: College basketball is gonna be a lot of fun this

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Speaker 1: year to cover. Obviously a whole new team in Villanova,

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Speaker 1: since seemingly their entire team went in the first round

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Speaker 1: of the NBA Draft. Keep an eye on Zion Williamson,

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Speaker 1: who is a YouTube sensation. But watch for his weight,

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Speaker 1: watch for his movement defensively, and whether or not he

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Speaker 1: could shoot the basketball. I think his basketball like Q

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Speaker 1: is good enough. It's gonna be more about his basketball mode.

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Speaker 1: All right, let's get you to Chris pet All right,

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Speaker 1: let's roll on here in the All Ball podcast, as

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Speaker 1: we talked basketball all the time. This I don't know.

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Speaker 1: As soon as we started doing this pod. One of

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Speaker 1: the first I don't know, like ten people that came

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Speaker 1: to my mind in terms of just the name like

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Speaker 1: all Ball, which is all basketball all the time, was

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Speaker 1: the head coach of Texas Tech. He's had an incredible

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Speaker 1: run um, starting out as an assistant kind of working

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Speaker 1: his way up through the different levels of coaching to

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Speaker 1: becoming not only have do any spectacular job at Little Rock,

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Speaker 1: but then Texas Tech. In just two seasons, I mean,

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Speaker 1: think about this, one and four fifty four. That's his uh,

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Speaker 1: that's his record so far. He's been the champion of

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Speaker 1: the Sun Belt. Of course, he was Coached the Year

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Speaker 1: in the Big Twelve, Coach of the Year in in

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Speaker 1: the Sun Belt. I mean, you go back and look

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Speaker 1: at his resume, and it is. It's just one of

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Speaker 1: incredible growth. But it's also a guy who the more

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Speaker 1: you get to know him, the more you know he

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Speaker 1: kind of is all ball all the time. Chris Pierre

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Speaker 1: joins us here on the podcast. Um, is that is

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Speaker 1: that fair? Like? Do you have if you had if

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Speaker 1: you had to pick your three other interests outside of basketball,

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Speaker 1: and you can't say you're girls, can't say your girls?

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Speaker 1: What would they be? Well, that's a tough one. Man.

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Speaker 1: I was going to go down the daughter Avenue and

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Speaker 1: the girlfriend Street, but um, can we still say girlfriends

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Speaker 1: one of the three? That's fine? I mean, listen, women,

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Speaker 1: women and women in your life? Would be would be one? Right?

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Speaker 1: If there was two in their three? Like do you fish?

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Speaker 1: Do you hunt? Do you like rehabbing houses? Do you

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Speaker 1: like the market? Like? What? What? What would two in

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Speaker 1: three be if it wasn't for basketball? You know, none

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Speaker 1: of those things? I did. Used to play golf earlier

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Speaker 1: in my career, but I have not swung a golf

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Speaker 1: club since I met Bob and Patt Night true story. Um,

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Speaker 1: used to play not all the time, and I played, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, once a week or something. But then once

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Speaker 1: I got here, the text and assistant. Not that those

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Speaker 1: guys wouldn't let me play golf, just kind of like

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Speaker 1: trying to prioritize time and things like that. I've got

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Speaker 1: kind of a competitive, almost you know, addictive personality, so

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Speaker 1: I'm also scared to go play because I know I'll

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Speaker 1: get the bug again. Um. But after women in my life,

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Speaker 1: i'd have to say, you know, one thing I try

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Speaker 1: to do a lot, um is I go to a

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Speaker 1: lot of movies. That kind of started in my single

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Speaker 1: coaching days. I'd always go to like the ten o'clock

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Speaker 1: PM movie, no matter what was showing, kind of time

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Speaker 1: to turn the phone off and just relax a little bit,

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Speaker 1: let your mind go somewhere overside basketball. And I've still

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Speaker 1: continue to do that. It's it's very rare there's a

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Speaker 1: movie out that I haven't seen. Um. And then thirdly,

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Speaker 1: you know, I don't know, maybe watching NBA basketball that's

427
00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:57,200
Speaker 1: still qualifies as basketball, alright, So it's different, different, different

428
00:20:57,200 --> 00:20:59,520
Speaker 1: than college basketball. I do think it is different. I

429
00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:02,600
Speaker 1: do think I want to get to that in a second. Um, Look,

430
00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:04,639
Speaker 1: we could sit here and kind of run down your

431
00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:06,840
Speaker 1: guys Elite eight run but I don't know. I mean

432
00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:08,920
Speaker 1: that that would be the VCR going through your mind.

433
00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:11,320
Speaker 1: I think it's far more interesting how you got to

434
00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:15,360
Speaker 1: where you are, how you develop your philosophy, and and

435
00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:18,159
Speaker 1: how you continue to evolve as as a coach. I

436
00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:21,160
Speaker 1: think I think, to people who love basketball, that's that's fascinating.

437
00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:26,080
Speaker 1: All right, So let's go back, um McCullough high school, right,

438
00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:29,000
Speaker 1: that's uh. And then you go to you go to

439
00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:30,679
Speaker 1: you say, I want to go to Texas because of

440
00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:32,560
Speaker 1: Tom Penders and I want to be part of that staff,

441
00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:34,719
Speaker 1: and I want to learn ball or why why did

442
00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:38,480
Speaker 1: you go to ut? Yeah? So my journey growing up,

443
00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:41,040
Speaker 1: you know, I kind of played everything football, baseball, basketball,

444
00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:44,280
Speaker 1: like everybody, whatever season was in session is kind of

445
00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:46,960
Speaker 1: where your love was. And then right around the time,

446
00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:49,280
Speaker 1: like junior high, high school, I kind of made a

447
00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:52,520
Speaker 1: commitment in high school just to play basketball. It really

448
00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:55,120
Speaker 1: just fell in love with the sport for so many reasons.

449
00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:59,200
Speaker 1: The locker room, the camaraderie, the competitiveness. Um, it was

450
00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:01,320
Speaker 1: always hard to get enough people in the neighborhood together

451
00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:04,920
Speaker 1: to play football or even baseball. Basketball. Can't even play

452
00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:09,720
Speaker 1: with yourself, you know, imagination, driveway, the whole deal. Um.

453
00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:12,600
Speaker 1: Two great high school coaches. Mike coon Stat was my

454
00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:15,919
Speaker 1: first high school coach in Irby, Texas. Coach koon Stat

455
00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:19,640
Speaker 1: now one of the best recruiting service UM events guy

456
00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:22,560
Speaker 1: out there with great American sports in Texas. And then

457
00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:25,439
Speaker 1: at McCullough playing for Terry Priest to Texas High School

458
00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:28,800
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame coach. Those guys really mentored me. I'd say,

459
00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:31,399
Speaker 1: second to my own father, those guys that probably had

460
00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:34,240
Speaker 1: the most influence in my life. I was going. I

461
00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:38,280
Speaker 1: was set to go play like Division five basketball UM

462
00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:40,359
Speaker 1: in a kind of an academic kind of school around

463
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:44,680
Speaker 1: Austin Southwestern University, not disrespecting those people had already paid

464
00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:48,080
Speaker 1: my application fee and everything. Then there was a coaching change.

465
00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:50,760
Speaker 1: The coach at the time then went to a Division

466
00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:53,679
Speaker 1: two school. I asked that coach, now, hey, when do

467
00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:55,840
Speaker 1: I need to be there? Any kind of pause and said,

468
00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:59,280
Speaker 1: you're not coming here. So reality kind of hit me

469
00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:01,080
Speaker 1: in the face there. So I decided to go to

470
00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:03,639
Speaker 1: the University of Texas State School and then kind of

471
00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:07,840
Speaker 1: my admiration for coach pinners in that program. UM. Once

472
00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:09,640
Speaker 1: I got there, got involved with the team as quick

473
00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:12,240
Speaker 1: as I could, took a little bit of a detour

474
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:15,639
Speaker 1: during my college years, uh, to chase the playing dream

475
00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:19,879
Speaker 1: again at Concordia Lutheran where Rusty Siegler was the coach. Um,

476
00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:23,000
Speaker 1: a really really good coach in his own right, went

477
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:27,800
Speaker 1: back to Texas turn so down. Wait, okay, so how

478
00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:29,600
Speaker 1: long were you Texas before you decided you want to play?

479
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:31,560
Speaker 1: Because my brother did that. He was he was supposed

480
00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:34,439
Speaker 1: to go like low D one and he just couldn't

481
00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:36,199
Speaker 1: get into it. He got into u C l A.

482
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:38,200
Speaker 1: He was supposed to walk on, you know, he got

483
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:39,920
Speaker 1: beat out to be a walk on, and so he's

484
00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:41,400
Speaker 1: just like a frat boy. Then a couple of years

485
00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:43,439
Speaker 1: and he's like, dude, I want to play. He started

486
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:45,639
Speaker 1: working out of the summer with me. He went to

487
00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:47,720
Speaker 1: j C camps and he end up going to Drake

488
00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:49,440
Speaker 1: as a walk on. So how many years are you

489
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:53,120
Speaker 1: at you t before you went to Concordia? Yeah, sametime story,

490
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:55,600
Speaker 1: it's like an addiction. You know, I love a basketball

491
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:57,679
Speaker 1: as the disease. There's all of us out here that

492
00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:00,480
Speaker 1: really weren't very good players that had the disease. So

493
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:04,080
Speaker 1: basically a Texas first year kind of getting used to

494
00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:06,919
Speaker 1: school and going down that route and then really missing basketball.

495
00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:09,520
Speaker 1: Got back involved with the team's second year college with

496
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:13,520
Speaker 1: coach Fenders, Victorulli, Eddie Orne, some great guys that really

497
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:16,119
Speaker 1: helped my career, and then just playing with the guys

498
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:18,320
Speaker 1: in the summer and after practice and stuff, just really

499
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:20,560
Speaker 1: started missing it and kind of I didn't want to

500
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:23,359
Speaker 1: live my life with any kind of regrets. Um, the

501
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:25,960
Speaker 1: deal had happened real quick when I didn't go to Southwestern,

502
00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:28,919
Speaker 1: So I got back in decent shape and then had

503
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:30,879
Speaker 1: an opportunity to go to Concordia Loot and which is

504
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:34,760
Speaker 1: actually right there in Austin. UM was only there for

505
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:38,320
Speaker 1: a summer session, and then right when the school years

506
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:40,560
Speaker 1: started back to coach the Rusty Siegler gave me some

507
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:43,000
Speaker 1: of the best advice in my life, like, Chris, looks,

508
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:44,679
Speaker 1: you're wanting to coach, what are you doing here? You're

509
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:47,200
Speaker 1: about to go in debt. I had to fasten out

510
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:50,280
Speaker 1: taking student loans and all sorts of stuff. Um, but

511
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:52,800
Speaker 1: with the advice is Rusty Siegler and Tom Penders and

512
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:55,879
Speaker 1: those guys went back to Texas quickly, so it was

513
00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:59,639
Speaker 1: really only a Concordia for one semester. Okay, so you

514
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:03,800
Speaker 1: gad you eight Texas Uh? And then um? And then

515
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:08,000
Speaker 1: how how long before you went to incarnent word? Yes?

516
00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:09,920
Speaker 1: And Carna where it was my first job. How's a

517
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:13,720
Speaker 1: graduate assistant there? Um with Danny Casper was now the

518
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:17,280
Speaker 1: head coach of Texas State. Steve Lutts has done a

519
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:19,360
Speaker 1: great job in his career. Is it per due? Now?

520
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:22,480
Speaker 1: With coach Paynter, I think the future head coach very

521
00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:26,440
Speaker 1: soon was the other graduate assistant and it was probably, uh,

522
00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:28,920
Speaker 1: one of my best breaks I've had. I tell young

523
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:31,280
Speaker 1: guys all the time, if you can get on somebody's

524
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:33,960
Speaker 1: staff like Danny Casper early on, you'll find out, you know,

525
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:36,600
Speaker 1: whether you really want to coach. He'll push you hard,

526
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:39,080
Speaker 1: he'll be fair, but he'll he'll teach you what it's

527
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:41,440
Speaker 1: all about. And so that was a great first year.

528
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:44,719
Speaker 1: We won a conference championship my first season of coaching.

529
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:47,680
Speaker 1: Still have that ring today, probably displayed in the office.

530
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:50,760
Speaker 1: And then you went to Abilene Christian Why why? Why

531
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 1: make a move over? What was a full time job?

532
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:56,800
Speaker 1: So in the Carnate word, I'm a graduate assistant basically

533
00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:59,560
Speaker 1: just making a couple hundred dollars a month kind of surviving.

534
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:01,960
Speaker 1: And then Avelene Christian was a chance to get a

535
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:05,919
Speaker 1: full time position with with Health Insurance UM. Shannon Hayes

536
00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:09,359
Speaker 1: was the coach at um A CEU at that time.

537
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:12,240
Speaker 1: You might know of him Doug He's got some Oklahoma

538
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 1: state ties. Was coach Dickey's assistant in Texas Tech later on,

539
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:19,200
Speaker 1: and his dad, Larry Hayes, was the all time great

540
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:22,879
Speaker 1: baseball coach here at Texas Tech. UM. So that was

541
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:24,640
Speaker 1: a great year, you know, being at the four year

542
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:27,119
Speaker 1: level and finally getting a paycheck. And then he went

543
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:31,399
Speaker 1: to North Texas. Yeah, so back to the Texas roots.

544
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:33,920
Speaker 1: Being at Texas and undergrad. Vic truly was one of

545
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:37,480
Speaker 1: the assistants for coach Penders. That relationship got me to

546
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:39,359
Speaker 1: the Division one level. I think at the time I

547
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:42,640
Speaker 1: might have been the youngest full time assistant Division one.

548
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:46,439
Speaker 1: I only know that because my mom's got a Basketball

549
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:48,760
Speaker 1: Times article I think still in the house. I read

550
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:52,800
Speaker 1: when I go home. Well, what those two really good

551
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:55,439
Speaker 1: years with Vic? What what do your parents think this

552
00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 1: whole time? Like, like my my dad's parents thought he

553
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:03,520
Speaker 1: was crazy. You know he started he uh he was

554
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 1: his first job was like he graduated from Colombia with

555
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:09,920
Speaker 1: a master's degree, and he went to coach at Fair

556
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:12,400
Speaker 1: Law In High school in New Jersey, where he replaced

557
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:16,040
Speaker 1: Hub Brown. Like my my, my grandparents thought he was crazy,

558
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:18,920
Speaker 1: like actually had him talk to a psychologist where they

559
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:21,360
Speaker 1: thought because he loved basketball so much, like he's got

560
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:24,240
Speaker 1: something gotta be wrong with this this guy. What do

561
00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:27,520
Speaker 1: your parents think when here you are, great student in

562
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:31,479
Speaker 1: high school, good basketball player, and you know, you think

563
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:34,320
Speaker 1: about leaving Texas and then you're taking all these jobs.

564
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:38,440
Speaker 1: Like what's what's the advice they're giving you at the time? Yeah,

565
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 1: same same neighborhood man. They think I'm crazy too. Um.

566
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:44,560
Speaker 1: I do think my dad told me one thing early on,

567
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:47,119
Speaker 1: kind of like cliche advice. That's it's true. You know,

568
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 1: you try to find something that you love to do. Um,

569
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:52,280
Speaker 1: and you know it's obviously it's since a young age.

570
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 1: I just love basketball. Um. The cool thing about my

571
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:58,520
Speaker 1: old man, though, he's like he's so loyal, you know,

572
00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:00,520
Speaker 1: he's like, you give him a T shirt, He's just

573
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,480
Speaker 1: like where is it? Until he can't wear it anymore.

574
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:06,440
Speaker 1: So as I changed jobs from time to time, I

575
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:07,680
Speaker 1: was like, Dad, you want to just kind of clear

576
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:09,040
Speaker 1: that out. I can get you a lot of gear.

577
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:11,000
Speaker 1: Now you know my text tech You've got to a

578
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 1: budget and he's like, no, I still like that shirt,

579
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 1: So I'll go home. He'll be wearing like a Corner

580
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:18,160
Speaker 1: Words shirt next day, Fort Scott Community College, next week,

581
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:21,639
Speaker 1: Seminole North Texas, a little Rock South Carolina Warriors. He

582
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:23,480
Speaker 1: has them all, like, he literally has like a call

583
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:26,200
Speaker 1: the full of two shirts. But he's so stinking loyal

584
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:28,200
Speaker 1: that he won't get rid of him. He just keeps

585
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:31,879
Speaker 1: them in the rotation. That's that's awesome. Okay, So, uh,

586
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:35,119
Speaker 1: you're what twenties six and you get the Fort Scott

587
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 1: job twenty six? What was the process like of your

588
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:41,240
Speaker 1: Division one assistant and decide I want to be ahead? Like,

589
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:42,920
Speaker 1: did you decide I want to be a head coach?

590
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:46,800
Speaker 1: Did it just present itself? Uh? You know what? Why

591
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 1: why leave a Division one job instead of trying to

592
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 1: get another Division one job? Go to j C. You know,

593
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:54,520
Speaker 1: I spent a lot of time earlier in my career

594
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:57,120
Speaker 1: and I still do asking the advice of people that

595
00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 1: I respect, Like just this past week on the road,

596
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:02,040
Speaker 1: you know, I run into coach right, who has been

597
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:04,600
Speaker 1: so great to me since the Villanova game of course

598
00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:07,120
Speaker 1: they beat us, you know, kind of nice. It's easy

599
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 1: to be nice to somebody, you'd be but um, but

600
00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 1: I you know, try to, like those two or three

601
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:13,880
Speaker 1: minutes I had with him between games, try to ask

602
00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:16,640
Speaker 1: him something you know, valuable. And spent some time with

603
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 1: Bill self this past week on the road, but always

604
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:22,400
Speaker 1: asking people kind of like advice on how to how

605
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 1: to get through this deal. And early on, I think

606
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 1: the thing that I realized was like everybody's advice is

607
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:29,720
Speaker 1: kind of different, and I came up with my own idea.

608
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:31,720
Speaker 1: You know, if there's no right path, if there was

609
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:33,800
Speaker 1: a right path to a head coaching job of success,

610
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 1: everybody would take it. Well, I think you got to

611
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:38,040
Speaker 1: just kind of get a path that you're comfortable with

612
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:39,680
Speaker 1: and and don't look back. You know. It's like I

613
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:42,720
Speaker 1: tell our players, there's no right decisions in life. You

614
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 1: make the decision, then you make it right. Um. And

615
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 1: so with us, I was just sitting there, you know,

616
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:50,920
Speaker 1: in North Texas, really happy working for big Division one level,

617
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:55,320
Speaker 1: really close to my hometown Irving. We had good players, Um,

618
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 1: but I just felt like, you know, I gotta get

619
00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:59,960
Speaker 1: some head coaching experience, and I just thought that was important,

620
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 1: so many reasons, maybe at the top of the list

621
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 1: that I wasn't a great college player. I just felt

622
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:06,760
Speaker 1: the need to get out there and see if I

623
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:09,920
Speaker 1: could really get this done. So I just started applying

624
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:12,560
Speaker 1: for head coaching jobs, and and Kevin Gundy, who was

625
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 1: the a d at Fort Scott Community College, really gave

626
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 1: me the break of all breaks and gave me a

627
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:20,520
Speaker 1: head coaching job at a young age. I went there,

628
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 1: rolled up the sleeves and kind of figured out, yeah,

629
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:25,840
Speaker 1: I can do this. Okay, So but you're coaching philosophy

630
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 1: at the time. You know, like all these different people

631
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 1: that you played for, that you worked for, they all

632
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:34,600
Speaker 1: had a vast array of styles. But in your mind,

633
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:36,360
Speaker 1: we all kind of do this. Man, if I ever

634
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:38,239
Speaker 1: get a team this so I'm gonna play. How did

635
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:41,560
Speaker 1: you play it at at Fort Scott. Well, I've always

636
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 1: believed in defense, you know. It started as a as

637
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 1: a as a player. It's the way I could get

638
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 1: on the court, be a guy that my coach could

639
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:51,040
Speaker 1: trust to defend and not foul and play the game

640
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 1: the right way. My high school coaches were defensive minded.

641
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:58,160
Speaker 1: Coach Pender's obviously defense with pressing and trapping and being aggressive.

642
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:01,520
Speaker 1: Danny Casper one of the best half court defensive coaches,

643
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:03,440
Speaker 1: and that kind of a combination of both. So I

644
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 1: came into that job knowing like, hey, we're gonna guard,

645
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 1: and I'd wide recruited junior college for a couple of years.

646
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 1: I've seen a lot of good talent teams that looked

647
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 1: the park, but they didn't guard. So I knew from

648
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 1: day one and we're going to defend. Whether that's the

649
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 1: pressure or contained, we'll see what kind of players would get,

650
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 1: but we're gonna guard. Then. I've always been a guy

651
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:23,200
Speaker 1: who just understanding, man, look you gotta have the players.

652
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 1: Like what's happened here at Texas Tech. I appreciate everybody's

653
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 1: compliments that it means a lot to me, but at

654
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 1: the bottom line is, you know, this past year we

655
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:33,680
Speaker 1: had three NBA players on our team, Keenan Evans and

656
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 1: I are Smith. I think Zack Smith's right there as well.

657
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 1: It's had a bad injury, and so I mean, you know,

658
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:41,120
Speaker 1: this coaching deal is a little overrated. You better go

659
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:42,840
Speaker 1: get some guys who can play and want to play

660
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 1: for you. And I learned that growing up. You know,

661
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:47,960
Speaker 1: at the Park, we play at the park on the nights,

662
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 1: and you know, and Irving, we played the Conflints and

663
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:52,840
Speaker 1: there'll be thirty five guys deep. You know, it's like

664
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:56,240
Speaker 1: it's your next game. You better win or you're not

665
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:58,320
Speaker 1: gonna play for another two hours. Not if you're really,

666
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:00,480
Speaker 1: really good, so By might pick you up. But I wasn't.

667
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:02,920
Speaker 1: So I learned at a young age, I better get

668
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:04,640
Speaker 1: with the best players here so we can stay on

669
00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:06,960
Speaker 1: the court. So back to the junior college days sports

670
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:08,640
Speaker 1: scot we went out and got us some dudes. We

671
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:11,760
Speaker 1: had some real players. Um we we taught him how

672
00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:14,720
Speaker 1: to play defense. We had a good, unselfish culture, and

673
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:17,160
Speaker 1: and we went to work. Whenever I see those guys,

674
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 1: I just saw Sean Mason the other day. His son

675
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:22,480
Speaker 1: is on the AUTH circuit now. Sean played for US

676
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:26,120
Speaker 1: at Scott. But almost kind of apologize those guys, like, hey, man,

677
00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:28,160
Speaker 1: I wish I would have been better coach back in

678
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:30,480
Speaker 1: those days. What I don't apologize for is how we

679
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:33,000
Speaker 1: treated them and how we guarded and how we tried

680
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:35,720
Speaker 1: to do things right. But obviously I'm a better coach

681
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:37,760
Speaker 1: today than I was back in those days. Are you

682
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:40,200
Speaker 1: gonna selling off for a year and then how did

683
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:43,160
Speaker 1: you get How did you tell me how the relationship

684
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 1: with coach Knight started? I know that he's really close

685
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 1: to Danny Janny Casper, I know. I mean all those

686
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 1: texts guys, Bob and I gets the job at Texas Tech.

687
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:55,520
Speaker 1: How did you come onboard? Yeah, that's a great story,

688
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:58,240
Speaker 1: you know. And I really didn't even realize how he

689
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 1: got the job until I got here and just kind

690
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 1: of pinching myself and thinking pat Night every time I

691
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:06,640
Speaker 1: walked by his office. But um, it's so true. Like

692
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:08,600
Speaker 1: I tell our players all the time, you got to

693
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:12,120
Speaker 1: treat everybody with class in life. You never know who's

694
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:16,040
Speaker 1: gonna help you or who's gonna hurt you. Um, every relationship,

695
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:20,360
Speaker 1: supporting everything matters. And the Texas Tech break for me was,

696
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:23,320
Speaker 1: you know, when I was coaching at Fort Scott Community College,

697
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:27,280
Speaker 1: Jerry Mullen, uh, the you know, the nation's number one

698
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 1: junior college guy. He lives in in Kansas City and

699
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 1: Fort Scott happened to be maybe the quickest Juico he

700
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:37,040
Speaker 1: could get to. So even without me knowing, he came

701
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:39,360
Speaker 1: to games from time to time not only to evaluate

702
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 1: our team, but basically to see who we were playing

703
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:44,400
Speaker 1: that night, So if Seward came to Fort Scott, that

704
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:47,480
Speaker 1: was his chance to watch Stewart him and I think,

705
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:49,280
Speaker 1: you know, we coach right, and we treat our guys

706
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 1: the right way, and we try to respect the game.

707
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:54,440
Speaker 1: And um So when Coach Night he took that one

708
00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:57,880
Speaker 1: year off from coaching, he was getting organized. He had

709
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:01,720
Speaker 1: two or three job offers, Texas Tech being one of them.

710
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:03,600
Speaker 1: He made a couple of calls and he called Jerry

711
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:05,720
Speaker 1: Mullan said, hey, I'm putting this team together. I think

712
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:08,800
Speaker 1: if I take X job, why job Z job? I

713
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:11,320
Speaker 1: might have to you know, allounge junior college players, especially

714
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 1: at the first and Coach Mullen, even though me and

715
00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:15,960
Speaker 1: him didn't have a great relationship or didn't know each

716
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:17,920
Speaker 1: other well, he recommended me. He's like, hey, there's a

717
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:20,279
Speaker 1: young guy down of Fort Scott's actually from Texas that

718
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:23,359
Speaker 1: I've seen his team play several times. So I think

719
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:25,719
Speaker 1: Jerry Molan a million times since then, almost to the

720
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:27,920
Speaker 1: point where he rolls his eyes when he sees me coming.

721
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:30,279
Speaker 1: But it's just a great example for all of us

722
00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:32,440
Speaker 1: that sometimes the people that you don't even know what

723
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 1: are the people that help you if you try to

724
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:36,920
Speaker 1: do things right. Okay, but did did you call? Did

725
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:39,200
Speaker 1: they call you? Did coach Knight call you? To Pat?

726
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:42,680
Speaker 1: Call you? Like? How did how did the contact begin? Yeah?

727
00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:44,919
Speaker 1: So I think coach was really close to taking a job.

728
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:48,200
Speaker 1: There's about two or three on the table. Um. I

729
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:50,360
Speaker 1: think Pat was coaching a Acorn at the time, but

730
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:52,360
Speaker 1: he was starting to get organized, knowing he's gonna make

731
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:54,879
Speaker 1: a move a coach. And I just got a call

732
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:59,799
Speaker 1: one day, um, because actually from Karen Knight coaches. Why

733
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:03,080
Speaker 1: she's called the house before cell phones. Back in those days,

734
00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:06,719
Speaker 1: I had the old school answer machine next to my bed.

735
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 1: I'll never forget. It was like a Saturday morning after

736
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:12,520
Speaker 1: the season, so it's been like late March Providence, real early,

737
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:15,960
Speaker 1: like real early phone rings. And if you can hear

738
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:19,040
Speaker 1: the message, like hey, Chris, is Karen Night, Bob Knight's wife.

739
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:21,640
Speaker 1: He wants to talk to you about a couple of players. Well,

740
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:23,919
Speaker 1: I thought it's a print call. I got all sorts

741
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:25,919
Speaker 1: of buddies, man, we give each other ship all the time.

742
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:28,480
Speaker 1: I thought it was an absolute print call. So I

743
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:30,759
Speaker 1: did not return the call. I didn't even blink at it.

744
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:33,840
Speaker 1: Later that afternoon, when I got home from the office,

745
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:36,799
Speaker 1: there was another message, and you could tell Karen's voice

746
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:38,440
Speaker 1: was changed a little bit, like, Hey, Chris, is my

747
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:41,359
Speaker 1: second message too? Then I started thinking, man, this might

748
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:44,040
Speaker 1: be like half we legit. So I made a call,

749
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:47,799
Speaker 1: found out the coach's wife's name sure was Karen, and I,

750
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:50,520
Speaker 1: of course I called back to the afternoon, probably made

751
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:53,520
Speaker 1: up some kind of excuse that I didn't get the messages. Um,

752
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:55,560
Speaker 1: But basically coach was going around dung and looking at

753
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:57,879
Speaker 1: some of the best unsigned players in the country back

754
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 1: in those days with the rules that was completely the

755
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:02,879
Speaker 1: legal because he didn't have a job. He came out

756
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:05,440
Speaker 1: to seminole, spent the time with me, um, and you know,

757
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:07,759
Speaker 1: and everything worked out. I got the job. One of

758
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:14,239
Speaker 1: our guys went with me. When when you, uh, did

759
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:17,400
Speaker 1: you know him before he came out of seminole. I

760
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:19,560
Speaker 1: did not it, never met him, but it obviously been

761
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:22,680
Speaker 1: a huge fan growing up, I mean from season on

762
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:25,759
Speaker 1: on the Brain. The first book I ever read, I

763
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:27,719
Speaker 1: was supposed to read Where the Red Fern Grows in

764
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:30,640
Speaker 1: fourth grade, just loving Worth, but I didn't read it.

765
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:33,600
Speaker 1: My brother had the Cliff Notes. First time I learned

766
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:36,279
Speaker 1: about Cliff notes. Was the fourth grade. Not a big

767
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:41,280
Speaker 1: reader again girls movies, NBA basketball, reading what on the list?

768
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:44,600
Speaker 1: But I did read Season on the brain too. I

769
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:47,759
Speaker 1: had an infatuation with coach day one. Okay, so he

770
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:50,640
Speaker 1: shows up at seminal like did you play cool? Did

771
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:53,440
Speaker 1: you meet him in his car? Like? What's I mean?

772
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:57,520
Speaker 1: Because because I do think that one thing unfortunately with

773
00:36:58,040 --> 00:36:59,719
Speaker 1: you know, he might of coach a little too long

774
00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:02,320
Speaker 1: and they went to TV. And so I think people's

775
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:06,200
Speaker 1: perspective when you say coach night now might be different

776
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:08,640
Speaker 1: of those of us who grew up loving ball right

777
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 1: like my dad used to when he was when he

778
00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:12,480
Speaker 1: was the Army, he used to go to his clinics

779
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:13,480
Speaker 1: and then when was it in the end he go

780
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:15,879
Speaker 1: to his cline. Still I still have notes my dad

781
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:17,839
Speaker 1: took when he because he used to an offense called

782
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:21,239
Speaker 1: the California reverse and and I still have those those

783
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:24,839
Speaker 1: those notes my Dad's how house that my mom still keeps.

784
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:29,120
Speaker 1: So this is basketball Royalty shows up at Seminole Junior

785
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:31,319
Speaker 1: College at your school. You've an't been a head coach

786
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:33,640
Speaker 1: for two years now, two different junior colleges. What do

787
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 1: you do you remember anything about that? Meeting. Absolutely. I

788
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 1: remember Karen it called the night before and set up

789
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:43,840
Speaker 1: some my lodgings for Coach and I really I was

790
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:46,160
Speaker 1: trying to encourage her to tell Coach to stay in

791
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:48,440
Speaker 1: Oklahoma City. I could come get in the next mory

792
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:50,880
Speaker 1: or whatever. Then it got back to me that no,

793
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:53,200
Speaker 1: that's not how Coach rolls. He wants to stay right

794
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:56,640
Speaker 1: there in town, which now I understand knowing Coach, he's

795
00:37:56,680 --> 00:37:58,840
Speaker 1: not kind of like a big time kind of you

796
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:01,680
Speaker 1: know perception, He's he's real man. He would rather be

797
00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 1: at the motel sixth and the then the West End.

798
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:06,600
Speaker 1: I mean, that's just Coach night. That's why he's beautiful.

799
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:09,040
Speaker 1: But anyway, so he ends up staying. We have one

800
00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:11,600
Speaker 1: hotel and similar the time called the Seminal End right

801
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 1: across from the campus. Great dive bar in there by

802
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:17,960
Speaker 1: the way like that, that's not a part of the stories. No,

803
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:19,840
Speaker 1: that's good. Wait what's the dive bar? This is this

804
00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:23,080
Speaker 1: is good? What's the dive bar? It's just a great

805
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 1: spot day like Dollar Draft on Wednesdays or something like that. Um. Anyway,

806
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:30,239
Speaker 1: so back to Coach. I went over to pick him

807
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:33,600
Speaker 1: up that morning. It's like a maybe Monday Tuesday morning

808
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:35,520
Speaker 1: the time or something, and I never forget. The doors

809
00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:38,359
Speaker 1: just kind of cracked since I kind of knocked the door,

810
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:40,399
Speaker 1: and he's just like, come on in, and I'm he's

811
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:42,279
Speaker 1: like drying off from the shower and sit down on

812
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:45,239
Speaker 1: the butt on the bed. We like literally talking basketball

813
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:48,040
Speaker 1: five minutes and when I'm met him, but just the

814
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:51,600
Speaker 1: most down to earth guy, just loves basketball. Like he's

815
00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:54,279
Speaker 1: the perception of what people think Coach Night is and

816
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:57,000
Speaker 1: who he is just so far off. He's like a

817
00:38:57,080 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 1: really really good person that's easy to talk to in

818
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:03,040
Speaker 1: the whole, you know, when when he's when he's respects.

819
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:05,680
Speaker 1: I guess the person he's with done a great thing

820
00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:08,040
Speaker 1: about that. That Later that day, after he'd watched our

821
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:10,600
Speaker 1: players and spend the time together, I told myself that

822
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:12,360
Speaker 1: I was gonna kind of get the nerve up to

823
00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:15,759
Speaker 1: ask him, you know, especially at the Texas Tech job.

824
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 1: Happened to me being from Texas, you know, what was

825
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:19,560
Speaker 1: he gonna do with his staff? I really wasn't like

826
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:22,320
Speaker 1: star struck at the times. I've met so many people

827
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:25,759
Speaker 1: Ludols and Jerry Tarkanian, you name it, over the years

828
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:27,879
Speaker 1: at junior college. So we're to let a star struck deal,

829
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:30,160
Speaker 1: so I was kind of in my element. I got

830
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 1: my courage up driving down to the Oklahoma City Airport.

831
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:35,360
Speaker 1: This is before nine eleven, so you didn't have to

832
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:37,399
Speaker 1: go through security. So I made it all the way

833
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:40,800
Speaker 1: to the gate because slightly is in like thirty minutes.

834
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:43,480
Speaker 1: I'll never forget. We're sending at this little bitty round table.

835
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:47,319
Speaker 1: We're both eating pizza. People are coming up to Coach

836
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:50,000
Speaker 1: trying to get autographs. He's he's gracious, he does it,

837
00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:52,399
Speaker 1: but when the food starts, he's politely telling people, hey,

838
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 1: can wait a second, will eat. I finally get my courage.

839
00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:57,319
Speaker 1: I've done and I was like, hey, Coach. I was like,

840
00:39:57,880 --> 00:39:59,440
Speaker 1: I'm not sure what you're gonna do with your staff,

841
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:02,719
Speaker 1: especially if you take the tech job, but um, I

842
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:04,400
Speaker 1: just wanted to tell you. I know you have a

843
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:07,239
Speaker 1: lot of people, anybody you wanted, but nobody you know

844
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:10,520
Speaker 1: would work harder to be more appreciative than me. And

845
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:12,320
Speaker 1: he kind of cut me off. And I'll never forget

846
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:14,160
Speaker 1: this one of my great life lessons I tell the

847
00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:16,480
Speaker 1: players every year. I really believe this coach kind of

848
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:19,520
Speaker 1: looked at me. He was wiping it the pepperoni kind

849
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:22,520
Speaker 1: of off his mouth and he said, Chris, look, I've

850
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 1: never been concerned with how how hard somebody works, like

851
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:28,640
Speaker 1: that's a given. I'm much more concerned with who can

852
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:31,680
Speaker 1: get what done? And I'll never forget he said that.

853
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:34,800
Speaker 1: I like, Um, I tell everybody that I respect and

854
00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:37,040
Speaker 1: everybody I coached that story because I think in our

855
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:40,080
Speaker 1: business one thing I don't like because he's self promoters

856
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:42,480
Speaker 1: and he's a worker. He works hard. Ship, we all

857
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:45,160
Speaker 1: work hard. You're not working hard, you don't win. But

858
00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:47,359
Speaker 1: what I'm really interested in with our staff is who

859
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 1: can get things done? Okay, so you get to Tech

860
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:55,520
Speaker 1: and he takes over a program and I knew it

861
00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:57,560
Speaker 1: so well because we played against him, you know, and

862
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:00,560
Speaker 1: I love coach Dickey. He's a good man. Obviously, they

863
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:03,200
Speaker 1: had some academic stuff which caused them, you know, to

864
00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:05,839
Speaker 1: not be able to have all their scholarships, and and

865
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:10,640
Speaker 1: they weren't great, but they weren't bad either. So how

866
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:12,759
Speaker 1: did I mean, Look, that thing got going in like

867
00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 1: a year, right, I mean first year? I think you

868
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:18,920
Speaker 1: guys made made the tournament. What when when you look

869
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:21,840
Speaker 1: back at Tech and how coach Knight turned that thing around?

870
00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:24,480
Speaker 1: So quickly, and I know Andre Emmett some of those

871
00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:27,520
Speaker 1: guys are already there. What were a couple of things

872
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:30,480
Speaker 1: that that he did and that you still to this

873
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 1: day that you know, that's that's the magic of what

874
00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:36,759
Speaker 1: made Bob Knight. But I think the first thing you

875
00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:38,800
Speaker 1: hit it on the head. You gotta give Coach Dicky credit.

876
00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:42,840
Speaker 1: We inherited all conference players and Andre mm and Andy Ellis.

877
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:46,719
Speaker 1: This always happens, you know. I try to tell people

878
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:48,840
Speaker 1: every chance I get how fortunate we were to follow

879
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:51,560
Speaker 1: Steve Shilds at lew Rock and Tubby Smith the Texas Tech.

880
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:54,239
Speaker 1: It always perturbs me when a guy comes into a

881
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 1: job and doesn't embrace or acknowledge what the last guy did.

882
00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:00,319
Speaker 1: Coach Knight was great about that. I remember vividly him

883
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:02,680
Speaker 1: talking to Coach Dicky on the phone one day, like

884
00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:04,560
Speaker 1: a month or two months and us being a love it.

885
00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:06,359
Speaker 1: I thought that was one of the coolest things I've

886
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:09,240
Speaker 1: ever seen. Um. But we inhered good players. We also

887
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:12,040
Speaker 1: recruited very well right off the bat. Probably can sip

888
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:15,440
Speaker 1: pal the tender college player. We brought in Ronald Ross,

889
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:17,560
Speaker 1: one of the all time greats who's on our staff

890
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:21,319
Speaker 1: right now here in Texas Tech. So the combination of

891
00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:26,319
Speaker 1: embracing and coaching and welcoming the returning players and then

892
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:28,880
Speaker 1: adding new players gave us a chance to be competitive.

893
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:32,600
Speaker 1: And then I'll never forget how just simplified Coach made

894
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:34,640
Speaker 1: everything like every day we had some things we got

895
00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:36,319
Speaker 1: to get done, and we got them done. He kind

896
00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:40,120
Speaker 1: of eliminated all distractions. He had great people around him

897
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:42,360
Speaker 1: handling a lot of things, and coach just really focused

898
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:44,920
Speaker 1: on the basketball. But that first team was with the

899
00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:47,680
Speaker 1: biggest increase in wins and college basketball, and we basically

900
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:49,880
Speaker 1: went from I think the bottom of the Big twelve

901
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:53,960
Speaker 1: to third or four that made the tournament the first year. Um.

902
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:56,480
Speaker 1: In terms of recruiting, did he empower you? Did he

903
00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:58,440
Speaker 1: say you can offer a player? Did he have to

904
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:02,880
Speaker 1: come see him? How did it work? That's another great question.

905
00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:05,440
Speaker 1: And he really trusted his coaches. People asked me that

906
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:08,120
Speaker 1: all the time, like were you able to coach with coach?

907
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:10,320
Speaker 1: I mean the answers absolutely, I mean you had to.

908
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:14,040
Speaker 1: He wouldn't be here he he UM. You know. Obviously

909
00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:16,880
Speaker 1: having Pat on the staff was really special because he

910
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:19,640
Speaker 1: had such a trust factory was his dad and kind

911
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:21,640
Speaker 1: of knew exactly what we were doing, and as the

912
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:24,640
Speaker 1: other assistance myself and Bob Bye at the time, we

913
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:27,400
Speaker 1: really relied on Pat had to kind of point us

914
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:29,839
Speaker 1: in the right direction. And he did. You know, Pat,

915
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:32,240
Speaker 1: like I do, one of the most unselfish, best guys

916
00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:35,239
Speaker 1: you'll ever meet. Um, go back to coach. It was

917
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:37,600
Speaker 1: just a level of simplicity. You know, we're gonna run

918
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:39,799
Speaker 1: the motion, We're gonna play a man and man, we're

919
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:42,239
Speaker 1: gonna work hard every day. He was just kind of

920
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:46,160
Speaker 1: the master of keeping things simple. He also kind of

921
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:48,360
Speaker 1: embraced the three point shot, like he struggled with that.

922
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:50,719
Speaker 1: He hated the three when he was in Indiana and

923
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:53,640
Speaker 1: you guys shot a lot more threes. Was that discussion

924
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:55,840
Speaker 1: the staff had, was that Pat pushing him to it?

925
00:43:56,480 --> 00:44:02,040
Speaker 1: What what changed? Uh? That's a good question right from

926
00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:03,680
Speaker 1: my point of view coming in, I just know the

927
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:07,799
Speaker 1: coach valued shot selection so strong, like that's probably the

928
00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:09,960
Speaker 1: first thing about offense. He told me that one time

929
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:12,520
Speaker 1: I'm on a large, a long car ride back he

930
00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:15,880
Speaker 1: goes Dodge City, Kansas, and Um, you know, Chris, the

931
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:19,560
Speaker 1: most important thing offensive shot selection. And you know we

932
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:21,120
Speaker 1: had some good shooters. If you were a guy to

933
00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:22,920
Speaker 1: good stroke and that he's gonna let you shoot it.

934
00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:25,239
Speaker 1: I mean, you're gonna have the green light. But if

935
00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:26,719
Speaker 1: you're a guy that's not a great shooter, you have

936
00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:29,640
Speaker 1: to understand that, hey, we're going to get a good shot. Um.

937
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:31,400
Speaker 1: But I think it's probably because the game changed a

938
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:34,239
Speaker 1: little bit and coach changed right there with it was

939
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:37,120
Speaker 1: he you mentioned he was great to work for, he

940
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:39,600
Speaker 1: lets you coach. What was he like at that stage

941
00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:41,799
Speaker 1: in his career for the players? You know, obviously he

942
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:44,920
Speaker 1: has a reputation of being super fiery and at times

943
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:47,719
Speaker 1: difficult to play for. When you watch him and how

944
00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:52,239
Speaker 1: he treated his players, how would you relay that? You know, Like,

945
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:54,520
Speaker 1: if you if you wanted to be coached and you

946
00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:56,719
Speaker 1: wanted to get a degree and you wanted to win,

947
00:44:57,360 --> 00:44:59,920
Speaker 1: then you had no problem with coach Night. It was

948
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:02,560
Speaker 1: the guys that kind of always had alternate deals. Were

949
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:06,160
Speaker 1: all coaches struggle with those players? But um, the thing

950
00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:07,800
Speaker 1: about coach I mean, he wasn't gonna sit here and

951
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:09,680
Speaker 1: try to be your best friend every day, but you

952
00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:12,520
Speaker 1: knew he had your back. We've got Darryl dor on

953
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:14,680
Speaker 1: our staff now, and Daryl was one of the great

954
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:17,560
Speaker 1: players played for coach for four years and Darryl has

955
00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:19,880
Speaker 1: some stories that I didn't even know. But spending time

956
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:22,320
Speaker 1: with Darrel the last couple of years, like when Daryl

957
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:25,120
Speaker 1: was a freshman coming from Gonzalez, Texas and kind of

958
00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:28,120
Speaker 1: tought life to that point. He said that a couple

959
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:31,200
Speaker 1: of times Coach would check on a phone call Um

960
00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:33,480
Speaker 1: stopped by the locker room after practice. Hey, Daryl, come

961
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:35,680
Speaker 1: here and talk to you. These are things that no

962
00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:38,719
Speaker 1: one really understands. I mean, you don't. You're not the

963
00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:41,040
Speaker 1: best coach in the history of the game without understanding

964
00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:44,400
Speaker 1: the personal element too. Um. But Coach was never fake,

965
00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:47,120
Speaker 1: but he was always real and I think the players

966
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:49,920
Speaker 1: knew that he had their back. And yeah, he wasn't

967
00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:52,200
Speaker 1: easy to play for. UM, but I think if you

968
00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:55,200
Speaker 1: asked players at any school that wins like Coach did,

969
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:57,000
Speaker 1: I mean, nobody's easy to play for him. It's a

970
00:45:57,080 --> 00:46:00,839
Speaker 1: competition at the highest level. Okay, you have you love

971
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:02,960
Speaker 1: what a burger? Right, and I know that very well.

972
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:05,319
Speaker 1: I've listened your press conferences. You always mentioned how much

973
00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:06,960
Speaker 1: you love what a burger? So I want you to

974
00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:11,840
Speaker 1: first first your order what a burger is, what breakfast

975
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:15,040
Speaker 1: lunch or late night. Oh that's a good question. Breakfast

976
00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:16,600
Speaker 1: you go, bob? Do you go breakfast in a bun?

977
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:23,120
Speaker 1: Is that what you do? Now? I go t keto? Okay,

978
00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:26,240
Speaker 1: so but I see I thought unsweetened tea only existed

979
00:46:26,239 --> 00:46:28,160
Speaker 1: on this earth for one purpose, and that was to

980
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:31,040
Speaker 1: be sweetened. But I could be wrong. Um, okay, let's

981
00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:35,920
Speaker 1: do late night. So late night order? What a burgers? What? Well?

982
00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:37,239
Speaker 1: What's you guy to do? Late night? Has you got

983
00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:38,799
Speaker 1: to see how many people are in there? You know,

984
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:41,399
Speaker 1: like if the drive through is really backed up, I'm

985
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:44,200
Speaker 1: going to go in. If you go in, you know,

986
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:46,320
Speaker 1: if you start getting fancy and stuff, you don't have

987
00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:48,480
Speaker 1: to wait longer. So really late. Now, to try to

988
00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:50,600
Speaker 1: keep it really simple, I'll just go with the number

989
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:55,160
Speaker 1: one mustard pickle cheese only. I'll go spicy catchup. I'll

990
00:46:55,160 --> 00:46:58,920
Speaker 1: go unsweet tea if my girlfriends there. If she's not there,

991
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:01,120
Speaker 1: I'm going to milkshake. And then if she asked me

992
00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:05,920
Speaker 1: the next morning, I get a milkshake. I'm probably white line. Okay,

993
00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:08,640
Speaker 1: So you get a milkshake, you get a number one.

994
00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:12,200
Speaker 1: You're sitting in the corner and you've got some got

995
00:47:12,239 --> 00:47:14,560
Speaker 1: some of your old got got some of your old players,

996
00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:17,279
Speaker 1: and a couple of assistance and just you know, just

997
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:20,440
Speaker 1: Texas basketball dudes. And I know that sometimes this will

998
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:22,840
Speaker 1: happen having a beer as well. But let's just picture

999
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:25,080
Speaker 1: what a burger, right, give me your give me your

1000
00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:27,400
Speaker 1: best Bob Night, give me the one, all right, my

1001
00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:32,399
Speaker 1: go to Bob Knight's story, go to go with man.

1002
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:39,680
Speaker 1: We had a let's see, there's so many of them,

1003
00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:41,840
Speaker 1: probably in that element when the guys are then, you

1004
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:43,719
Speaker 1: know the kind of things they like to hear. One

1005
00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:45,759
Speaker 1: of the things we would always do is at basketball

1006
00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:48,640
Speaker 1: camp in the summer. You know, Coach was really involved

1007
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:50,080
Speaker 1: in camp. A lot of these guys just kind of

1008
00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:53,319
Speaker 1: show up, shake hands, take pictures. Coach was there. I

1009
00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:55,080
Speaker 1: mean he was there at all the sessions, and he

1010
00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:57,400
Speaker 1: was invested and he would watch games and stuff. And

1011
00:47:57,480 --> 00:47:59,560
Speaker 1: that's one thing I always kind of looked up to

1012
00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:01,120
Speaker 1: him for. And we try to do the same thing

1013
00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:02,799
Speaker 1: with our camps here in the summers. I'd like to

1014
00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:05,520
Speaker 1: think that our staff is involved with anybody. But anyway,

1015
00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:07,520
Speaker 1: back the coach days, you know, like we always knew

1016
00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:10,000
Speaker 1: he was coming in the mornings after stretch and he

1017
00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:12,279
Speaker 1: would sit at the main table and he would watch

1018
00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:14,400
Speaker 1: a little bit, maybe check some mel be there, but

1019
00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:16,120
Speaker 1: he was gonna be at that table early in the

1020
00:48:16,120 --> 00:48:19,279
Speaker 1: morning what he did. So we would always take the

1021
00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:21,400
Speaker 1: camp coach that we wanted to pick on, maybe the

1022
00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:23,000
Speaker 1: guy that had been out too late the night before,

1023
00:48:23,160 --> 00:48:25,200
Speaker 1: maybe the guy we were just trying to you know,

1024
00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:27,680
Speaker 1: give a give a welcome to camp, and we would

1025
00:48:27,719 --> 00:48:31,200
Speaker 1: put him right in front of coach and give him

1026
00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:34,759
Speaker 1: like a defensive station or something to like. Um, one

1027
00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:37,160
Speaker 1: year is actually a junior college assistant that me and

1028
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:39,960
Speaker 1: Pat invited to come work camp. He was there and

1029
00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:41,520
Speaker 1: we put him in front of like I don't know,

1030
00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:44,440
Speaker 1: lane denial or shell drill or something, right there in

1031
00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:46,520
Speaker 1: front of coach. Well, you know, we kind of left

1032
00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:48,239
Speaker 1: him out to drag, so we didn't really tell him

1033
00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:50,960
Speaker 1: exactly how coach teaches things. And sure enough, every year,

1034
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:53,360
Speaker 1: like clockwork man, you just see coach sitting there and

1035
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:56,000
Speaker 1: keeps glancing up and eventually just gets the point where

1036
00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:58,360
Speaker 1: he he can't mistake, he can't let mistakes go on

1037
00:48:58,520 --> 00:49:00,680
Speaker 1: where he coaches, and he would just get up and

1038
00:49:00,719 --> 00:49:02,680
Speaker 1: basically kind of ripped the camp coach and stuff and

1039
00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:05,160
Speaker 1: we'd be in the background watching the whole thing. But

1040
00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:07,719
Speaker 1: it was priceless. Every summer. We could execute it every

1041
00:49:07,719 --> 00:49:12,080
Speaker 1: time we wanted here. It's amazing. Alright, So, uh, you

1042
00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:15,080
Speaker 1: decide you go to you go back to being a

1043
00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:19,160
Speaker 1: head coach. Um when it went in South Carolina, didn't you?

1044
00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:20,440
Speaker 1: Didn't you go to the A B A before you

1045
00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:24,040
Speaker 1: got back to college. I'm Doug, you've never heard of

1046
00:49:24,040 --> 00:49:27,120
Speaker 1: the South Carolina Hey man. I played for the I

1047
00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:30,040
Speaker 1: don't remember how about this. I played in Phoenix in

1048
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:32,000
Speaker 1: the A B A. I don't know the nickname of

1049
00:49:32,040 --> 00:49:34,200
Speaker 1: the team I played for. I swear to guy. I

1050
00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:37,480
Speaker 1: was in Israel and mass Track was a coach of

1051
00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:41,280
Speaker 1: the Phoenix team in the A B A. And uh

1052
00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:43,880
Speaker 1: I had I didn't. I didn't like my coach in Israel.

1053
00:49:43,960 --> 00:49:45,400
Speaker 1: Like he was he was a good coach. We just

1054
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:49,279
Speaker 1: butted heads and like there's one Israeli guy, Guy Guy

1055
00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:51,960
Speaker 1: Contour who could play, and they had to have an

1056
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:54,080
Speaker 1: Israeli out in the court, and so the only only

1057
00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:57,360
Speaker 1: guy who could really was replaceable was me because otherwise

1058
00:49:57,400 --> 00:50:00,000
Speaker 1: all the other Israelis couldn't play. So like we would

1059
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:02,719
Speaker 1: his butt heads constantly and they would do. They would

1060
00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:05,800
Speaker 1: do ship like it'd be you're supposed to get paid

1061
00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:07,439
Speaker 1: on the first and every month, but they would wait

1062
00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:11,000
Speaker 1: until the wait until like the shekel versus the dollar

1063
00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:13,480
Speaker 1: was a better ratio. They wait like four or five

1064
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:15,160
Speaker 1: days and saved like seventy bucks. And I was just

1065
00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:17,440
Speaker 1: getting pissed about it. So finally I go to them

1066
00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:18,960
Speaker 1: and I was like, look, I'll stay the whole time

1067
00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:20,160
Speaker 1: and I would have to stay and do like this

1068
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:22,439
Speaker 1: basic training, but you have to promise me I'm gonna

1069
00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:24,439
Speaker 1: get all my money. And the president of the club

1070
00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:26,279
Speaker 1: was like, we will do the best we can. I

1071
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:28,680
Speaker 1: was like, come on, man, just probably give me your

1072
00:50:28,719 --> 00:50:29,880
Speaker 1: word as a man, look me in the eye and

1073
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:31,560
Speaker 1: just say I'll get you all your money. And he

1074
00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:34,200
Speaker 1: wouldn't do it. And so I started making calls to

1075
00:50:34,239 --> 00:50:37,359
Speaker 1: my agent and I call Mas and Mas is like, look,

1076
00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:40,120
Speaker 1: I'm gonna cut I gotta cut my point guard and

1077
00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:41,880
Speaker 1: you can come. You can start for me. But like,

1078
00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:43,720
Speaker 1: look at the A B A is really good ball,

1079
00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:47,439
Speaker 1: but you might get paid, you might not. But NBA

1080
00:50:47,480 --> 00:50:49,440
Speaker 1: scouts come and watch. So I know the NBA. I

1081
00:50:49,440 --> 00:50:51,240
Speaker 1: swear to god, I don't know the team. The nickname

1082
00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:53,160
Speaker 1: of the team. So you went coaching the A B

1083
00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:58,120
Speaker 1: A in in South Carolina? Did you get paid? I did? Sometimes?

1084
00:50:58,680 --> 00:51:02,239
Speaker 1: We Uh we had four owners in one season. I

1085
00:51:02,239 --> 00:51:04,960
Speaker 1: think two of the owners paid. It was always a

1086
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:07,960
Speaker 1: little bit late, but yeah. The cool thing about that, though,

1087
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:10,040
Speaker 1: is how how punks were you when you did get paid?

1088
00:51:10,080 --> 00:51:12,520
Speaker 1: You know, like the normal jobs, you get paid every month,

1089
00:51:12,560 --> 00:51:13,880
Speaker 1: you know it's coming, but in the A B A

1090
00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:16,279
Speaker 1: it's like awesome, like am I gonna get paid? Am

1091
00:51:16,280 --> 00:51:18,400
Speaker 1: I not? And when you do, it's just like you

1092
00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:22,600
Speaker 1: get the lottery man. Totally, absolutely only that I remember

1093
00:51:22,640 --> 00:51:25,680
Speaker 1: my my first So I flew back from Israel. I

1094
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:28,840
Speaker 1: joined the Phoenix team. They're in Detroit that we're playing

1095
00:51:28,840 --> 00:51:32,359
Speaker 1: the Detroit Dogs. I'll never forget this. People asked all

1096
00:51:32,360 --> 00:51:33,719
Speaker 1: the time, like did you feel because I went to

1097
00:51:34,080 --> 00:51:37,360
Speaker 1: I can't My A B A was two thousand and three.

1098
00:51:37,520 --> 00:51:40,200
Speaker 1: I'm gonna guess yeah, two thousand too. So I've been

1099
00:51:40,200 --> 00:51:44,960
Speaker 1: in Israel right after nine eleven, and um uh, people

1100
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:46,759
Speaker 1: ask well did you feel safe there? And I tell

1101
00:51:46,800 --> 00:51:49,080
Speaker 1: them all the time. When I landed in Detroit and

1102
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:51,440
Speaker 1: I went to the hotel we stayed in downtown Detroit,

1103
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:54,040
Speaker 1: they gave me. The mass gave me twenty bucks and

1104
00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:56,120
Speaker 1: said that's your meal money for the day. And I

1105
00:51:56,160 --> 00:51:58,080
Speaker 1: had to walk to mcdonaldson. Was like a ten minute

1106
00:51:58,080 --> 00:52:01,160
Speaker 1: walk through downtown Detroit, and I felt less safe during

1107
00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:03,880
Speaker 1: that walk. Then I did it anytime in Israel, but

1108
00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:06,000
Speaker 1: I ate McDonald's and I balled out. We played two

1109
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:09,239
Speaker 1: games and I got named Todd Bergen, who played at Syracuse.

1110
00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:11,600
Speaker 1: He stopped me. He's like, yo, d G was that man.

1111
00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:14,359
Speaker 1: So we started shaking hands. He's like I was like,

1112
00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:15,520
Speaker 1: he's like, where have you been. I was like, I

1113
00:52:15,560 --> 00:52:16,840
Speaker 1: was in Israel. He's like, what are you as he

1114
00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:19,319
Speaker 1: I was in Lebanon. I was like, how is Lebanon.

1115
00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:21,880
Speaker 1: He's like, oh, man, beautiful women, a lot of weed.

1116
00:52:22,600 --> 00:52:25,800
Speaker 1: I was like, all right, good luck tonight. Anyway. So

1117
00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:30,400
Speaker 1: South Carolina four Warrior for for four owners. Um, but

1118
00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:32,040
Speaker 1: they also did you guys had the four point the

1119
00:52:32,040 --> 00:52:33,640
Speaker 1: three point or four point play if you stole in

1120
00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:37,400
Speaker 1: the backcourt. Yeah. I never got into that. You know, like,

1121
00:52:37,520 --> 00:52:40,080
Speaker 1: we had a really good team with really good players

1122
00:52:40,080 --> 00:52:42,240
Speaker 1: because of the year of the NBA lockout, and guys

1123
00:52:42,280 --> 00:52:45,160
Speaker 1: just wanted to go play somewhere. Not only NBA players

1124
00:52:45,160 --> 00:52:47,920
Speaker 1: with the whole world kind of froze, you know. Um,

1125
00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:50,440
Speaker 1: And so we had a real training camp. Best basketball

1126
00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:52,879
Speaker 1: I've ever been a part of, seriously was our training camp.

1127
00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:55,520
Speaker 1: We did two days, like five straight days. We had

1128
00:52:55,560 --> 00:53:00,279
Speaker 1: guys from Kentucky, North Carolina, Texas to Coastal Carolina. And

1129
00:53:00,320 --> 00:53:02,399
Speaker 1: so we get down to the game right the night,

1130
00:53:02,480 --> 00:53:04,920
Speaker 1: right before the game, we're the hard Rock Cafe doing

1131
00:53:04,920 --> 00:53:08,040
Speaker 1: this event for our owner. And George Tuttle, a West

1132
00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:11,000
Speaker 1: Coast guy, I think he's a vanguard right now, was

1133
00:53:11,160 --> 00:53:13,839
Speaker 1: a cow State Fullerton great coach. George Tuttle. He's like, beer,

1134
00:53:13,880 --> 00:53:15,680
Speaker 1: are you ever going to talk to these guys about

1135
00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:17,640
Speaker 1: the four point player of the three D? I think, George,

1136
00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:19,960
Speaker 1: I don't night kind out of my comfort zone, man,

1137
00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:22,480
Speaker 1: I just want to respect the game. Let's just play.

1138
00:53:22,680 --> 00:53:24,239
Speaker 1: So that night we don't do anything. Well, now is

1139
00:53:24,239 --> 00:53:27,080
Speaker 1: the next day. We're playing the first game franchise history.

1140
00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:29,040
Speaker 1: We got the mayor of Myrtle Beach. She's throwing the

1141
00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:31,479
Speaker 1: ball up. We're in the old Coliseum downtown. Is actually

1142
00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:34,759
Speaker 1: pretty cool. Right before the game, I mean like right

1143
00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:37,160
Speaker 1: before the game, on the floor, Tuttle's like, man, do

1144
00:53:37,160 --> 00:53:38,960
Speaker 1: you mind if I say something. I was like, go ahead,

1145
00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:40,920
Speaker 1: so totals like, hey, guys, by the way, if you

1146
00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:42,640
Speaker 1: get still in the backcourt, this light is gonna go

1147
00:53:42,719 --> 00:53:44,239
Speaker 1: off right here, and we get plus one for every

1148
00:53:44,239 --> 00:53:46,719
Speaker 1: basket all good luck. Gots just looking at him like

1149
00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:49,560
Speaker 1: what are you talking about? So the game starts and

1150
00:53:49,680 --> 00:53:52,160
Speaker 1: sure enough, it happens like we were a little soft pressed.

1151
00:53:52,200 --> 00:53:54,040
Speaker 1: We get a steal and that light goes on. You know,

1152
00:53:54,040 --> 00:53:56,560
Speaker 1: it's plus one for every point. But our guys don't

1153
00:53:56,560 --> 00:53:59,480
Speaker 1: know what's going on. But the fans are going crazy.

1154
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:01,440
Speaker 1: So we get back to the huddle. You know, the

1155
00:54:01,440 --> 00:54:03,759
Speaker 1: other coach called tom out. We've basically gone like six

1156
00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:05,839
Speaker 1: o run but really was like a leven oh round

1157
00:54:05,840 --> 00:54:07,880
Speaker 1: in the A B A. And the players are like,

1158
00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:10,640
Speaker 1: what is going on? Oh my god, I'll explain tomorrow

1159
00:54:10,640 --> 00:54:15,279
Speaker 1: in practice. True story. Okay, so how did you get that?

1160
00:54:15,480 --> 00:54:18,400
Speaker 1: So then you go to McMurray and how much different

1161
00:54:18,400 --> 00:54:22,040
Speaker 1: a coach are you having been a head coach and

1162
00:54:22,040 --> 00:54:23,839
Speaker 1: then been the system for coach. Now you talked about

1163
00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:25,399
Speaker 1: when you saw the Fortscott when a couple of guys

1164
00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:27,680
Speaker 1: in Portscott you apologize to you which you're a better coach?

1165
00:54:28,160 --> 00:54:31,560
Speaker 1: Did you feel different. Did you feel like completely at ease?

1166
00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:36,680
Speaker 1: How different was it you take over at McMurray. That's

1167
00:54:36,680 --> 00:54:39,319
Speaker 1: a great question. I've always thought about maybe like what

1168
00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:41,400
Speaker 1: did a d S think about when they hire people?

1169
00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:43,560
Speaker 1: And I think there is a lot of value and

1170
00:54:43,600 --> 00:54:45,600
Speaker 1: the guy that was a head coach at maybe a

1171
00:54:45,640 --> 00:54:49,000
Speaker 1: young age and then grinded it at that level whatever,

1172
00:54:49,040 --> 00:54:50,600
Speaker 1: and then they come back. I think it's just like

1173
00:54:50,680 --> 00:54:53,880
Speaker 1: because you have a reference point for what you did before,

1174
00:54:53,960 --> 00:54:57,239
Speaker 1: then you obviously learned new stuff. I don't know you

1175
00:54:57,280 --> 00:55:00,680
Speaker 1: think about guys like a Steve Fors and success he's

1176
00:55:00,719 --> 00:55:02,719
Speaker 1: having just's just a lot of guys that Christ Jan

1177
00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:05,319
Speaker 1: There's a lot of guys out there like that. Um

1178
00:55:05,440 --> 00:55:08,080
Speaker 1: back to my situation, I obviously had all this wealth

1179
00:55:08,120 --> 00:55:11,640
Speaker 1: of knowledge from coach Night and Pat for ten years

1180
00:55:11,640 --> 00:55:14,080
Speaker 1: and was itching to kind of get some of that stuff.

1181
00:55:14,080 --> 00:55:16,560
Speaker 1: But really the A B A. I've learned so much

1182
00:55:16,600 --> 00:55:19,440
Speaker 1: from the players, you know, like I'll be driving to

1183
00:55:19,560 --> 00:55:23,120
Speaker 1: the restaurant with you know, Marquees Gainess from TCU and

1184
00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:25,560
Speaker 1: all American I just asking me that what was the

1185
00:55:25,560 --> 00:55:28,239
Speaker 1: best thing Billy Tubes did or didn't do? So I

1186
00:55:28,239 --> 00:55:30,680
Speaker 1: had all this other information from the pro players since

1187
00:55:30,760 --> 00:55:32,520
Speaker 1: le mc murray. It was just like a big coaching

1188
00:55:32,560 --> 00:55:36,160
Speaker 1: clinic basically just kind of like slept in the office

1189
00:55:36,200 --> 00:55:38,719
Speaker 1: every night. I just I couldn't like I had so

1190
00:55:38,760 --> 00:55:40,640
Speaker 1: many ideas going through my head at that time. And

1191
00:55:40,719 --> 00:55:43,040
Speaker 1: that's really where our philosophy that we're using now kind

1192
00:55:43,040 --> 00:55:46,239
Speaker 1: of form. It's amazing because having seen your coach in

1193
00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:49,439
Speaker 1: both games and practice, I'm always I'm blown away by

1194
00:55:49,480 --> 00:55:52,320
Speaker 1: a couple of things you you do, you um, you

1195
00:55:52,600 --> 00:55:56,040
Speaker 1: don't request, you demand eye contact every time you're speaking

1196
00:55:56,080 --> 00:55:58,120
Speaker 1: to the team. It seems like you and I don't

1197
00:55:58,120 --> 00:56:00,719
Speaker 1: know if you intentionally do this, you use you know,

1198
00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:05,359
Speaker 1: you used you know, simple words, are phrases continually, you know,

1199
00:56:05,560 --> 00:56:07,399
Speaker 1: kind of to embed them in their head in terms

1200
00:56:07,440 --> 00:56:10,000
Speaker 1: of how you want them to play. And so it's

1201
00:56:10,040 --> 00:56:12,720
Speaker 1: demanding and you're loud and you're coaching them in practice.

1202
00:56:13,160 --> 00:56:15,160
Speaker 1: But if you're around like all you have to do

1203
00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:17,200
Speaker 1: is be through one practice like, oh, I get what

1204
00:56:17,239 --> 00:56:20,000
Speaker 1: he wants, I'm I understand how he wants to be,

1205
00:56:20,280 --> 00:56:23,040
Speaker 1: how he wants to coach you. Uh, Is that is

1206
00:56:23,400 --> 00:56:24,719
Speaker 1: that kind of what you're talking about? That is that

1207
00:56:24,800 --> 00:56:28,560
Speaker 1: something that you're developing talking to your coaching style. Now, yeah,

1208
00:56:28,600 --> 00:56:30,759
Speaker 1: I appreciate you saying that. We meaning that. Like I

1209
00:56:31,600 --> 00:56:35,280
Speaker 1: I've always said that coaching is like getting the information

1210
00:56:35,320 --> 00:56:37,760
Speaker 1: to the players and eventually getting it execute on the floor.

1211
00:56:37,800 --> 00:56:39,400
Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of guys who can sitting

1212
00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:42,560
Speaker 1: up hotel booth with you and talk basketball, but then

1213
00:56:42,560 --> 00:56:46,120
Speaker 1: they necessarily can't teach it on the floor. You know, communications, everything.

1214
00:56:46,800 --> 00:56:49,440
Speaker 1: So we do have a million ideas going through our

1215
00:56:49,520 --> 00:56:51,960
Speaker 1: heads and anything we can anything that can help our

1216
00:56:51,960 --> 00:56:55,240
Speaker 1: players in any way, We're gonna investigate and think about

1217
00:56:55,239 --> 00:56:58,080
Speaker 1: in research and try to try to maybe consider. But

1218
00:56:58,120 --> 00:57:00,520
Speaker 1: eventually when it gets to the court, we wanted to

1219
00:57:00,560 --> 00:57:02,759
Speaker 1: be a simple situation for the players, you know, we

1220
00:57:02,800 --> 00:57:04,359
Speaker 1: want we don't want them thinking out there. We want

1221
00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:06,920
Speaker 1: to react and just playing the game. So we do

1222
00:57:07,000 --> 00:57:08,960
Speaker 1: have some code words we believe in. You know, whether

1223
00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:11,799
Speaker 1: it's money is what we call when we get an

1224
00:57:11,800 --> 00:57:14,400
Speaker 1: offensive rebounds on money put back or money pick and

1225
00:57:14,520 --> 00:57:17,280
Speaker 1: roll or a money three. The word money something sacred

1226
00:57:17,320 --> 00:57:20,880
Speaker 1: to us. The word total, named after George Tuttle, is

1227
00:57:20,920 --> 00:57:24,600
Speaker 1: like basically our idea of transition, getting back or attacking

1228
00:57:24,600 --> 00:57:27,480
Speaker 1: when we get us still, so keywords like a money

1229
00:57:27,560 --> 00:57:29,400
Speaker 1: or a total. These are things that really is the

1230
00:57:29,400 --> 00:57:33,120
Speaker 1: foundation of everything we do. Um. All right, So now

1231
00:57:33,120 --> 00:57:36,640
Speaker 1: your attack after incredible success in a short period time

1232
00:57:36,920 --> 00:57:40,720
Speaker 1: at at at Little Rock and you know, you know,

1233
00:57:40,800 --> 00:57:43,520
Speaker 1: first year, you inherit as you've pointed out good players,

1234
00:57:44,320 --> 00:57:48,320
Speaker 1: guys like Keenan from from the previous staff, from Tubby staff.

1235
00:57:48,880 --> 00:57:50,520
Speaker 1: But you go out and grind. You find a kid

1236
00:57:50,600 --> 00:57:53,920
Speaker 1: like like Zaire you know, and Jared Culiver another outstanding

1237
00:57:53,960 --> 00:57:56,720
Speaker 1: fine for you. What's that like to find a kid

1238
00:57:56,760 --> 00:57:58,680
Speaker 1: that other people that some of the services and some

1239
00:57:58,720 --> 00:58:01,760
Speaker 1: of the big schools might have missed on. Give him

1240
00:58:01,800 --> 00:58:04,200
Speaker 1: a great chance. He takes advantage of it. But then

1241
00:58:04,240 --> 00:58:06,000
Speaker 1: you know, like a year in now of a sudden,

1242
00:58:06,000 --> 00:58:07,480
Speaker 1: you've got to replace him. It's like a gift and

1243
00:58:07,520 --> 00:58:10,880
Speaker 1: a curse. Yeah, this is kind of new to me,

1244
00:58:10,960 --> 00:58:13,680
Speaker 1: you know. Chris Ogden on the staff, we always kind

1245
00:58:13,680 --> 00:58:16,640
Speaker 1: of joked around. We called him Silverspoon because you know,

1246
00:58:16,680 --> 00:58:20,560
Speaker 1: he went to Texas, played Final Four's coach, never left

1247
00:58:21,080 --> 00:58:22,960
Speaker 1: did the one year at Tennessee. And Aggie was the

1248
00:58:23,000 --> 00:58:25,040
Speaker 1: best about it because he would embrace it. Ever get

1249
00:58:25,040 --> 00:58:26,640
Speaker 1: his feelings hurt and said, hey, guys, I know, like

1250
00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:29,400
Speaker 1: what am I supposed to do not not stay in Texas,

1251
00:58:29,440 --> 00:58:32,440
Speaker 1: and we'd all laugh, but um, we'd try to tell

1252
00:58:32,480 --> 00:58:34,960
Speaker 1: Aggie some stories about Juco or D two or the

1253
00:58:35,120 --> 00:58:37,400
Speaker 1: low majors are struggling, and Argue would always be kind

1254
00:58:37,400 --> 00:58:39,360
Speaker 1: of like interested in those stories, but would always call

1255
00:58:39,400 --> 00:58:42,400
Speaker 1: them silverspoon. Well now, but he'd always told me Beer,

1256
00:58:42,480 --> 00:58:44,240
Speaker 1: there's problems on the other side of the tracks too,

1257
00:58:44,320 --> 00:58:46,600
Speaker 1: man like, you know, and I'll understand. I respect that,

1258
00:58:46,760 --> 00:58:48,240
Speaker 1: So I just wish I could kind of try to

1259
00:58:48,280 --> 00:58:50,920
Speaker 1: deal with those problems kind of time. Well, be careful

1260
00:58:50,960 --> 00:58:53,760
Speaker 1: what you asked for. You know, there was special We're

1261
00:58:53,800 --> 00:58:56,040
Speaker 1: so supportive of him. We were the sixteenth pick in

1262
00:58:56,040 --> 00:58:58,320
Speaker 1: the draft. You gotta go, that's a no brainer. But

1263
00:58:58,400 --> 00:59:00,040
Speaker 1: now we're on the other end of this deal of

1264
00:59:00,160 --> 00:59:01,880
Speaker 1: in the world where we're trying to figure out how

1265
00:59:01,920 --> 00:59:04,040
Speaker 1: to you know, it's hard to go out and replace

1266
00:59:04,080 --> 00:59:07,000
Speaker 1: his iron may when he declares. So this is the

1267
00:59:07,000 --> 00:59:09,000
Speaker 1: other side of it. And I have a great appreciation

1268
00:59:09,040 --> 00:59:12,640
Speaker 1: for everybody in basketball, always have. But now I understand

1269
00:59:12,680 --> 00:59:15,000
Speaker 1: a little bit more what the Kentucky's and Villanova's and

1270
00:59:15,080 --> 00:59:17,840
Speaker 1: Texas do when you lose guys from the one and done.

1271
00:59:17,840 --> 00:59:20,360
Speaker 1: There's a whole other side of that, and so you know,

1272
00:59:20,400 --> 00:59:22,720
Speaker 1: I was kind of a fortune teller beer there's other

1273
00:59:22,720 --> 00:59:25,840
Speaker 1: problems on the other side, and he was certainly right. Um.

1274
00:59:25,880 --> 00:59:28,160
Speaker 1: You know, obviously, recruiting transfers is something you have to

1275
00:59:28,160 --> 00:59:30,640
Speaker 1: do and something that that you've been able to do

1276
00:59:30,920 --> 00:59:32,919
Speaker 1: to be successful. Others in the Big twelve are using

1277
00:59:32,920 --> 00:59:36,240
Speaker 1: it as well. Do you have any any Are there

1278
00:59:36,280 --> 00:59:38,360
Speaker 1: any a couple of things you do other than calling

1279
00:59:38,360 --> 00:59:41,120
Speaker 1: the guy's previous coach? Is there anything you do too

1280
00:59:41,520 --> 00:59:43,600
Speaker 1: to know what you're getting? Like, that's a hard thing

1281
00:59:43,600 --> 00:59:47,120
Speaker 1: because sometimes these things happen fast. Kid comes, kid comes available,

1282
00:59:47,160 --> 00:59:49,680
Speaker 1: he's interested in tech, You watch some tape, you talk

1283
00:59:49,720 --> 00:59:51,480
Speaker 1: to some people, and then you've got to make a

1284
00:59:51,520 --> 00:59:54,440
Speaker 1: call really really quickly, because sometimes if you don't offer

1285
00:59:54,520 --> 00:59:56,840
Speaker 1: him right away, the kid gets upset and he's like,

1286
00:59:56,840 --> 00:59:58,840
Speaker 1: why didn't you offer me right away? Even if you're

1287
00:59:58,840 --> 01:00:01,240
Speaker 1: doing your due diligence, Do you have a process you

1288
01:00:01,320 --> 01:00:05,240
Speaker 1: go through to know what you're getting? Absolutely? One thing

1289
01:00:05,280 --> 01:00:07,240
Speaker 1: we really believe in is is the video. You know,

1290
01:00:07,280 --> 01:00:08,760
Speaker 1: I tell the guys all the time, let's don't be

1291
01:00:08,840 --> 01:00:11,640
Speaker 1: YouTube guys like, don't don't bring me a three minute

1292
01:00:11,680 --> 01:00:13,720
Speaker 1: YouTube And tell me about the player. You gotta dig in,

1293
01:00:13,760 --> 01:00:15,960
Speaker 1: you gotta work at the end of the day. Even

1294
01:00:15,960 --> 01:00:17,880
Speaker 1: though we live in this world where everything is easy

1295
01:00:18,040 --> 01:00:22,120
Speaker 1: social media and cell phones, Uber eats, how about that one.

1296
01:00:22,120 --> 01:00:25,280
Speaker 1: I can't get past that one. But it's still value

1297
01:00:25,280 --> 01:00:27,120
Speaker 1: in his old school work. And so I mean, we're

1298
01:00:27,160 --> 01:00:29,080
Speaker 1: gonna lock up and we're gonna watch every game that

1299
01:00:29,160 --> 01:00:31,840
Speaker 1: could play. So like Matt Mooney coming from us from

1300
01:00:31,840 --> 01:00:36,400
Speaker 1: South Dakota, basically every game map played in his college career. UM.

1301
01:00:36,440 --> 01:00:38,080
Speaker 1: And I think that's important for a lot of reasons,

1302
01:00:38,160 --> 01:00:41,240
Speaker 1: not just our evaluation process, but also I think the

1303
01:00:41,280 --> 01:00:44,440
Speaker 1: player needs to know, like, hey, this coach knows me,

1304
01:00:44,520 --> 01:00:46,560
Speaker 1: he knows of my journey, he knows where I've been,

1305
01:00:46,600 --> 01:00:50,920
Speaker 1: he knows why I'm transferred. You know. I think that's important. Um.

1306
01:00:51,000 --> 01:00:52,960
Speaker 1: Another thing with us with the transfer is it's just

1307
01:00:53,000 --> 01:00:54,800
Speaker 1: something I really really believe in and it goes back

1308
01:00:54,840 --> 01:00:57,400
Speaker 1: through my whole career, whether it be CHUCO one year guys,

1309
01:00:57,520 --> 01:01:01,000
Speaker 1: D two one year guys, a b A, one week guys,

1310
01:01:01,080 --> 01:01:05,120
Speaker 1: one month guys. I just think that we have an ability.

1311
01:01:05,160 --> 01:01:07,640
Speaker 1: I don't think we're any better than anybody else, but

1312
01:01:07,720 --> 01:01:11,000
Speaker 1: I don't think anybody's better than us, and coaching guys

1313
01:01:11,040 --> 01:01:13,040
Speaker 1: in one year settings, I just believe in and I

1314
01:01:13,040 --> 01:01:16,760
Speaker 1: think we get relationships with guys quickly. We we understand

1315
01:01:16,760 --> 01:01:18,880
Speaker 1: and we embraced the idea like hey man, you've got

1316
01:01:18,920 --> 01:01:22,080
Speaker 1: thirty one more games guaranteed. This is it. I think

1317
01:01:22,120 --> 01:01:24,240
Speaker 1: there is an art to coaching a guy in a

1318
01:01:24,240 --> 01:01:26,760
Speaker 1: one year setting, and I think we've been really good

1319
01:01:26,760 --> 01:01:28,880
Speaker 1: about it. And I'm not talking about just Texas Tech.

1320
01:01:28,920 --> 01:01:31,840
Speaker 1: I'm talking about way back Fort Scott Community College when

1321
01:01:31,840 --> 01:01:34,040
Speaker 1: I had Jamal Brown for one year, or at Seminal

1322
01:01:34,120 --> 01:01:37,760
Speaker 1: State when we had Will Jones for one year, McMurray,

1323
01:01:37,760 --> 01:01:39,640
Speaker 1: when we had to Kobe Jackson for one year. I

1324
01:01:39,640 --> 01:01:41,600
Speaker 1: think I think we were were good at that and

1325
01:01:41,800 --> 01:01:43,800
Speaker 1: h I it didn't come off as arrogant and boast little.

1326
01:01:43,840 --> 01:01:46,720
Speaker 1: It's really confidence and belief. I think we'd because it

1327
01:01:46,760 --> 01:01:48,720
Speaker 1: gets when when he got one year to coach a guy,

1328
01:01:48,800 --> 01:01:52,440
Speaker 1: I think we get it. Uh, what's Brandsma doing Because

1329
01:01:52,480 --> 01:01:54,800
Speaker 1: Thomas Brandsman, he followed you around school to school, right

1330
01:01:56,480 --> 01:02:01,320
Speaker 1: Brandsma day. Yeah, So Bransma got done playing in Uh,

1331
01:02:01,360 --> 01:02:04,560
Speaker 1: the NBA was not calling. He went to the old

1332
01:02:04,680 --> 01:02:07,520
Speaker 1: fields of West Texas and made a bunch of money

1333
01:02:07,680 --> 01:02:11,640
Speaker 1: right out of the gates, lived in a trailer in Pecos, Texas.

1334
01:02:12,240 --> 01:02:15,080
Speaker 1: Was throwing water line out there, made a lot of money.

1335
01:02:15,760 --> 01:02:18,160
Speaker 1: What's what? What is the what is throwing waterline? What

1336
01:02:18,240 --> 01:02:21,320
Speaker 1: is I mean? Listen, I mean I live in southern California, man,

1337
01:02:21,840 --> 01:02:25,080
Speaker 1: I'm from Orange County. What is throwing waterline? Yeah, so

1338
01:02:25,160 --> 01:02:28,120
Speaker 1: basically I don't I'll kind of give you the the

1339
01:02:28,200 --> 01:02:31,440
Speaker 1: junior college version here. Uh, it's like, you know, the

1340
01:02:31,440 --> 01:02:33,480
Speaker 1: old booms going on out here. So basically, just need

1341
01:02:33,560 --> 01:02:35,600
Speaker 1: you need water, need water to get the dird right,

1342
01:02:35,680 --> 01:02:37,400
Speaker 1: you need water to clean thing, you need water. But

1343
01:02:37,440 --> 01:02:40,040
Speaker 1: there's not a lot of water out here, so beat them.

1344
01:02:40,080 --> 01:02:42,600
Speaker 1: Basically just bring water in from different sources. And so

1345
01:02:42,720 --> 01:02:44,960
Speaker 1: there's so much oil and so much business out there,

1346
01:02:45,000 --> 01:02:47,240
Speaker 1: you know, it's just like unlimited work. So a guy

1347
01:02:47,280 --> 01:02:50,560
Speaker 1: like Brandsma, who was in our program for five years

1348
01:02:50,560 --> 01:02:53,040
Speaker 1: and understands a little bit about hustling, getting after you know,

1349
01:02:53,080 --> 01:02:55,120
Speaker 1: he just gets out there and sees an opportunity and

1350
01:02:55,160 --> 01:02:58,360
Speaker 1: seizes it. So they're making all sorts of money out

1351
01:02:58,360 --> 01:03:00,280
Speaker 1: of the gates, and then he gets something up. I

1352
01:03:00,320 --> 01:03:04,240
Speaker 1: think he falls in love with a girl from Stephenville, Texas,

1353
01:03:04,720 --> 01:03:06,920
Speaker 1: which was concerning to me because that's where Carlton was

1354
01:03:06,960 --> 01:03:09,360
Speaker 1: and weird Angel State that was our rival. Brands of

1355
01:03:09,400 --> 01:03:12,560
Speaker 1: your dating the rival, He's like, Coach, you can't fight love,

1356
01:03:12,640 --> 01:03:15,240
Speaker 1: So I understand that. So um, I think with the

1357
01:03:15,280 --> 01:03:17,760
Speaker 1: relationship and with the fact that he made a little

1358
01:03:17,760 --> 01:03:19,280
Speaker 1: bit of money out of the gates, now he's in

1359
01:03:19,480 --> 01:03:22,479
Speaker 1: the real world. He's back and love it. He's working

1360
01:03:22,520 --> 01:03:25,720
Speaker 1: a business job that has a kind of an incentive

1361
01:03:25,760 --> 01:03:28,480
Speaker 1: based salary, which is good for brandsman, because the competitiveness

1362
01:03:28,520 --> 01:03:31,480
Speaker 1: is still there, but here is. As of lately, he's

1363
01:03:31,480 --> 01:03:33,920
Speaker 1: been poking around the office a little bit more than normal,

1364
01:03:34,000 --> 01:03:36,160
Speaker 1: kind of like look on his face where I think

1365
01:03:36,200 --> 01:03:40,240
Speaker 1: he's maybe thinking about getting the basketball disease back, but

1366
01:03:40,360 --> 01:03:42,280
Speaker 1: doesn't have the balls enough to ask me yet. But

1367
01:03:42,320 --> 01:03:43,960
Speaker 1: I can see in his eyes that I think he's

1368
01:03:43,960 --> 01:03:46,120
Speaker 1: gonna be coming into me pretty soon talking about maybe

1369
01:03:46,160 --> 01:03:49,240
Speaker 1: getting into coach. And for people who don't know Thomas Brands,

1370
01:03:49,520 --> 01:03:51,800
Speaker 1: he started with you McMurray, followed you to Angelo State,

1371
01:03:51,880 --> 01:03:53,880
Speaker 1: then went to Little Rock and then of course you

1372
01:03:54,000 --> 01:03:55,600
Speaker 1: you know, you took the UNLV job for like it

1373
01:03:55,640 --> 01:03:57,640
Speaker 1: was like ten days, and then the Texas Tech job,

1374
01:03:57,680 --> 01:04:00,720
Speaker 1: which you've told everybody, eat your dream job. Of course,

1375
01:04:01,040 --> 01:04:02,760
Speaker 1: you know it's like a little over an hour from

1376
01:04:02,760 --> 01:04:07,080
Speaker 1: your from your daughters. Um, you go right back. He

1377
01:04:07,120 --> 01:04:10,040
Speaker 1: followed you to all those stops, and of course, I mean, like,

1378
01:04:10,200 --> 01:04:12,520
Speaker 1: I think the least you could do is is, you know,

1379
01:04:12,840 --> 01:04:15,720
Speaker 1: find a grad assistant role for him, right or something

1380
01:04:16,000 --> 01:04:17,560
Speaker 1: if he wants to if he if he wants to

1381
01:04:17,560 --> 01:04:20,800
Speaker 1: get back in this crazy business. That's one side of

1382
01:04:20,800 --> 01:04:23,080
Speaker 1: the stories. Some people think that you know, we o Thomas.

1383
01:04:23,200 --> 01:04:24,720
Speaker 1: I know I'd be quick to tell you. I mean,

1384
01:04:24,760 --> 01:04:28,200
Speaker 1: Thomas kind of benefited from our program. To the guy

1385
01:04:28,280 --> 01:04:32,600
Speaker 1: goes from being a division to school paying tuition, so

1386
01:04:32,760 --> 01:04:35,320
Speaker 1: he scored a basket against West Virginia. Can imagine what

1387
01:04:35,360 --> 01:04:38,880
Speaker 1: his nightlife was that night. The guy has benefited from

1388
01:04:38,880 --> 01:04:41,320
Speaker 1: our program too. So there's no doubt that I appreciate

1389
01:04:41,320 --> 01:04:43,360
Speaker 1: everything Thomas is gone. But I think Thomas would be

1390
01:04:43,360 --> 01:04:45,200
Speaker 1: the first to tell you appreciates what the program is

1391
01:04:45,200 --> 01:04:47,640
Speaker 1: given him to. I mean, this girl from steven Ville,

1392
01:04:47,640 --> 01:04:50,720
Speaker 1: Doug is not bad looking, you know. I mean Thomas,

1393
01:04:50,720 --> 01:04:54,080
Speaker 1: Thomas's life is going in the trajectory, and I would

1394
01:04:54,120 --> 01:04:55,640
Speaker 1: like to think of our program had a little bit

1395
01:04:55,680 --> 01:04:59,200
Speaker 1: to do with it. Uh, that's that's that's a beauty.

1396
01:04:59,280 --> 01:05:03,400
Speaker 1: That's an absolute beauty. All right. Last thing, Um, we're

1397
01:05:03,440 --> 01:05:07,000
Speaker 1: waiting on these new n c A rules to determine

1398
01:05:07,040 --> 01:05:10,280
Speaker 1: what's open period. It's not open period. You're you and

1399
01:05:10,320 --> 01:05:12,640
Speaker 1: your staff. You guys are old school grinders, right like

1400
01:05:12,680 --> 01:05:14,440
Speaker 1: you just you want to go watch kids play, You

1401
01:05:14,480 --> 01:05:17,280
Speaker 1: want off from a scholarship. You don't pay kids, you

1402
01:05:17,320 --> 01:05:19,200
Speaker 1: don't change your grades. Like that's kind of the the

1403
01:05:19,320 --> 01:05:23,000
Speaker 1: easy baseline rules to it. If I put you in charge,

1404
01:05:23,440 --> 01:05:25,400
Speaker 1: would that just be simply the rules? Do we do?

1405
01:05:25,440 --> 01:05:28,440
Speaker 1: We need other periods? So that guys around campus like,

1406
01:05:28,440 --> 01:05:31,080
Speaker 1: how would you do it? If they said, hey, Chris,

1407
01:05:31,120 --> 01:05:33,560
Speaker 1: you've coached at all different levels of college basketball. You

1408
01:05:33,560 --> 01:05:34,760
Speaker 1: know the right way to do it, how would you

1409
01:05:34,800 --> 01:05:38,480
Speaker 1: do it? I don't think there's anything wrong with the

1410
01:05:38,560 --> 01:05:40,920
Speaker 1: game now, though I think, like, obviously we have some problems,

1411
01:05:40,960 --> 01:05:43,960
Speaker 1: but everybody has problems. The business world has problems. I mean,

1412
01:05:44,880 --> 01:05:46,640
Speaker 1: I I still go back to the fact that we

1413
01:05:46,640 --> 01:05:49,480
Speaker 1: have a great game for that into a tournament and

1414
01:05:49,560 --> 01:05:53,840
Speaker 1: Final four is simply the best. Um. College basketball produces

1415
01:05:54,000 --> 01:05:56,080
Speaker 1: leaders and good husbands and good men. I mean, it's

1416
01:05:56,240 --> 01:05:58,360
Speaker 1: I love our game. It's beautiful. Do we have flaws,

1417
01:05:58,600 --> 01:06:01,680
Speaker 1: of course, but every thing as far as I think,

1418
01:06:01,680 --> 01:06:03,560
Speaker 1: with the recent FBI do and all that, it brings

1419
01:06:03,680 --> 01:06:05,360
Speaker 1: light to some of that stuff. But I you know,

1420
01:06:05,920 --> 01:06:08,600
Speaker 1: I think there's another million good positive stories out there

1421
01:06:08,640 --> 01:06:11,520
Speaker 1: as well. I know this. Two coaches are gonna just

1422
01:06:11,960 --> 01:06:14,000
Speaker 1: you can change the rules from three weeks to two

1423
01:06:14,040 --> 01:06:17,760
Speaker 1: to no April to May. But like, eventually, we're all

1424
01:06:17,760 --> 01:06:21,280
Speaker 1: basketball guys and we're gonna just in my big view

1425
01:06:21,280 --> 01:06:23,640
Speaker 1: of things. And nobody asked me ever, but you are,

1426
01:06:23,760 --> 01:06:26,080
Speaker 1: so I'll take advantage of it. I just think you

1427
01:06:26,120 --> 01:06:28,000
Speaker 1: gotta put the control of the game back in the

1428
01:06:28,000 --> 01:06:30,480
Speaker 1: college coaches hands. And to do that, you gotta let

1429
01:06:30,520 --> 01:06:33,040
Speaker 1: the college coaches be with the players. Go repeat the players,

1430
01:06:33,040 --> 01:06:35,560
Speaker 1: spend time with them. But it's crazy to me that

1431
01:06:35,600 --> 01:06:37,360
Speaker 1: I can only work with my guys two hours a

1432
01:06:37,360 --> 01:06:41,160
Speaker 1: week in the summer. The I mean, and look and

1433
01:06:41,160 --> 01:06:43,240
Speaker 1: and as you know, and people, I'm sorry to cut

1434
01:06:43,240 --> 01:06:46,040
Speaker 1: you off, but like this idea well twenty hour week

1435
01:06:46,160 --> 01:06:48,560
Speaker 1: or two hours in the off season. Like look, if

1436
01:06:48,600 --> 01:06:51,320
Speaker 1: if you do too much, you're gonna lose the player anyway,

1437
01:06:51,360 --> 01:06:53,640
Speaker 1: So you have to measure how much how much you do,

1438
01:06:54,240 --> 01:06:56,200
Speaker 1: and you can't. And as much as people say, well,

1439
01:06:56,200 --> 01:06:57,880
Speaker 1: you're gonna kill a kid and working them out, like, no,

1440
01:06:58,160 --> 01:07:00,600
Speaker 1: you're not. You're gonna He's gonna be in the gym regardless.

1441
01:07:00,680 --> 01:07:02,920
Speaker 1: Why not be in the gym under the watchful eye

1442
01:07:03,000 --> 01:07:05,040
Speaker 1: of a guy who's been doing it like you for

1443
01:07:05,960 --> 01:07:08,439
Speaker 1: years and knows how to take a player from point

1444
01:07:08,440 --> 01:07:10,640
Speaker 1: A to point C. Right, I mean, doesn't that make sense?

1445
01:07:12,240 --> 01:07:13,960
Speaker 1: It does to me. And then when you don't let

1446
01:07:14,000 --> 01:07:16,560
Speaker 1: the coaches work with the players, that's where the outside

1447
01:07:17,400 --> 01:07:19,400
Speaker 1: people come in. And I don't blame the players, like

1448
01:07:19,440 --> 01:07:21,040
Speaker 1: I mean, like Jared Culver is going to get the

1449
01:07:21,040 --> 01:07:23,680
Speaker 1: gym four or five hours a day, seven days a

1450
01:07:23,680 --> 01:07:25,200
Speaker 1: week in the summer. That's who he is, is his

1451
01:07:25,280 --> 01:07:27,680
Speaker 1: d n A. And I can work with him two

1452
01:07:27,680 --> 01:07:29,840
Speaker 1: of those hours and the other hours and he's still

1453
01:07:29,840 --> 01:07:32,640
Speaker 1: gonna be in the gym. So I just don't understand it.

1454
01:07:32,680 --> 01:07:35,440
Speaker 1: I think you. I would trust the Bill Sells, Coach

1455
01:07:35,480 --> 01:07:38,720
Speaker 1: Williams and Coach Huggins. I would put the game in

1456
01:07:38,840 --> 01:07:41,360
Speaker 1: Tomzzo's hands. That's what I would do, because I think

1457
01:07:41,360 --> 01:07:42,840
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, all of us coaches,

1458
01:07:43,600 --> 01:07:45,760
Speaker 1: you know, are are are doing this for the guys

1459
01:07:45,800 --> 01:07:48,400
Speaker 1: man like what we are like. I'm not convinced there's

1460
01:07:48,440 --> 01:07:49,960
Speaker 1: like a lot of bad guys in our business. I

1461
01:07:50,000 --> 01:07:52,280
Speaker 1: just don't believe that. I think most coaches love their players.

1462
01:07:52,280 --> 01:07:54,840
Speaker 1: They want to win, and they're gonna and they're gonna

1463
01:07:54,840 --> 01:07:58,280
Speaker 1: work their guys accordingly. So that's my big, big picture

1464
01:07:58,280 --> 01:07:59,800
Speaker 1: of things. I don't know why they don't just put

1465
01:07:59,840 --> 01:08:01,560
Speaker 1: it in the coach's hands. I mean, maybe I'm not

1466
01:08:01,600 --> 01:08:04,120
Speaker 1: in the room, I understand, but why wouldn't you get

1467
01:08:04,160 --> 01:08:06,959
Speaker 1: coaches though, and coach self and Coach Williams and Coach

1468
01:08:07,040 --> 01:08:10,120
Speaker 1: Huggers and coach Krueger. Why wouldn't you get these guys

1469
01:08:10,160 --> 01:08:11,880
Speaker 1: in the room and asked them, Hey, what does the

1470
01:08:11,920 --> 01:08:15,040
Speaker 1: game need to me? It's that's simple. But you know

1471
01:08:15,120 --> 01:08:17,880
Speaker 1: you're talking to a guy that you know lived around

1472
01:08:17,920 --> 01:08:22,160
Speaker 1: there BC average. Um, I said the last thing. I

1473
01:08:22,240 --> 01:08:26,000
Speaker 1: lied one more. Um. You guys came so close against Nova.

1474
01:08:26,080 --> 01:08:28,440
Speaker 1: I mean, you guys did the best job against them defensively.

1475
01:08:28,520 --> 01:08:31,559
Speaker 1: You just you miss drives, you miss finishes, and I

1476
01:08:31,600 --> 01:08:33,559
Speaker 1: know they look they do a great job of bumping

1477
01:08:33,560 --> 01:08:36,040
Speaker 1: it with their lower body, and and and you're playing

1478
01:08:36,160 --> 01:08:39,360
Speaker 1: so hard defensively against all the different stuff they do

1479
01:08:39,640 --> 01:08:41,880
Speaker 1: that I think that and the pressure takes takes away

1480
01:08:41,880 --> 01:08:44,439
Speaker 1: from some of the shooting. But as you self assess,

1481
01:08:44,760 --> 01:08:46,280
Speaker 1: is there anything you come out of that lead a

1482
01:08:46,400 --> 01:08:50,560
Speaker 1: game thinking you could have done personally better? Yeah, you

1483
01:08:50,640 --> 01:08:54,320
Speaker 1: get it. The one that is finishing. Um. I think

1484
01:08:54,400 --> 01:08:56,400
Speaker 1: the noh did a great job by keeping their upper

1485
01:08:56,400 --> 01:08:59,360
Speaker 1: bodies extended with an not found lower body. My poppies

1486
01:08:59,360 --> 01:09:01,240
Speaker 1: and time to time. But to me, that's good, it's

1487
01:09:01,280 --> 01:09:05,240
Speaker 1: good coaching. We had seven drives in the second half

1488
01:09:05,920 --> 01:09:08,280
Speaker 1: and we uh we we went over seven. You gotta

1489
01:09:08,320 --> 01:09:10,000
Speaker 1: make a couple of those. You gotta draw a foul

1490
01:09:10,040 --> 01:09:12,479
Speaker 1: and a couple of those. And you know, look, we're

1491
01:09:12,520 --> 01:09:14,760
Speaker 1: at no excuse program. Some people talk to me about

1492
01:09:14,800 --> 01:09:17,960
Speaker 1: deficiating that game. I'm not buying that. I mean, we

1493
01:09:17,960 --> 01:09:19,400
Speaker 1: we just got to get to the point where we

1494
01:09:19,439 --> 01:09:22,720
Speaker 1: make those guys call those files. Um. But really, and

1495
01:09:22,760 --> 01:09:24,600
Speaker 1: we've already tried to embrace that. We started in the

1496
01:09:24,600 --> 01:09:26,800
Speaker 1: spring and it saw them working on finishing around the

1497
01:09:26,840 --> 01:09:31,519
Speaker 1: basket one ft two feet lower upper more than ever um.

1498
01:09:31,640 --> 01:09:33,840
Speaker 1: And then just I I do think we were ready

1499
01:09:33,840 --> 01:09:35,680
Speaker 1: to play that night A lot of people say, well,

1500
01:09:35,720 --> 01:09:37,519
Speaker 1: is it just because Villanova had been in that moment

1501
01:09:37,600 --> 01:09:40,120
Speaker 1: y'all haven't. I'm not buying that either. We were, we

1502
01:09:40,120 --> 01:09:42,960
Speaker 1: were relaxed, we were ready. We just didn't. We just

1503
01:09:43,000 --> 01:09:45,320
Speaker 1: didn't play well enough offensively. We held him to thirty

1504
01:09:45,360 --> 01:09:48,240
Speaker 1: three percent shooting. If you'd told me before the game

1505
01:09:48,280 --> 01:09:50,320
Speaker 1: we could do that, I totally see in San Antonio.

1506
01:09:50,479 --> 01:09:54,240
Speaker 1: But we just couldn't manufacture enough offense. Um. But ultimately,

1507
01:09:54,240 --> 01:09:56,519
Speaker 1: you gotta get Villanova for credit. It was so hard

1508
01:09:57,000 --> 01:09:59,320
Speaker 1: to score against. Maybe the best defense we played against

1509
01:09:59,320 --> 01:10:02,599
Speaker 1: all your was Villain. Yeah, and it's I mean, obviously

1510
01:10:02,680 --> 01:10:04,080
Speaker 1: for you. It's one thing for anybody to get to

1511
01:10:04,080 --> 01:10:05,280
Speaker 1: the final four, but to you to get to the

1512
01:10:05,320 --> 01:10:08,080
Speaker 1: final four in the state of Texas at Texas Tech

1513
01:10:08,120 --> 01:10:11,479
Speaker 1: would have been would have been incredible. But without without those,

1514
01:10:11,520 --> 01:10:14,840
Speaker 1: without a loss, you know it doesn't, uh not. Sometimes

1515
01:10:14,840 --> 01:10:16,360
Speaker 1: there's more to learn from a loss there is from

1516
01:10:16,400 --> 01:10:18,800
Speaker 1: a win. Hey, you've been more than gracious with your time.

1517
01:10:19,200 --> 01:10:21,559
Speaker 1: I know you've gotta figure out. I know you gotta

1518
01:10:21,560 --> 01:10:22,920
Speaker 1: figure out what you want to do with Brandsma, if

1519
01:10:22,920 --> 01:10:24,479
Speaker 1: you want to add them to staff, I know you

1520
01:10:24,560 --> 01:10:28,360
Speaker 1: gotta you gotta send me more videos of Sean Sutton, uh,

1521
01:10:28,520 --> 01:10:31,439
Speaker 1: you know, walking around and uh and and forgetting things

1522
01:10:31,439 --> 01:10:34,000
Speaker 1: in his room. I appreciate you joining us, and I

1523
01:10:34,120 --> 01:10:35,840
Speaker 1: look forward to catching up with you in person. Really

1524
01:10:35,840 --> 01:10:43,200
Speaker 1: really kind. That's All Ball, the All Basketball podcast here

1525
01:10:43,240 --> 01:10:45,760
Speaker 1: on the Herd Podcast Network. I hope you enjoyed, Chris Beard.

1526
01:10:45,800 --> 01:10:48,840
Speaker 1: We'll have another conversation for you next week. Thanks so

1527
01:10:48,920 --> 01:10:50,840
Speaker 1: much for joining us. Don't forget to listen to The

1528
01:10:50,880 --> 01:10:52,760
Speaker 1: Doug Gotlie Show three to six Eastern talking to three

1529
01:10:52,800 --> 01:10:55,880
Speaker 1: Pacific on Fox Sports rated, the I Heart Radio app

1530
01:10:56,280 --> 01:11:00,200
Speaker 1: or Serious XM channel eighty three and download subscribe a

1531
01:11:00,439 --> 01:11:01,280
Speaker 1: rate Houbor