1 00:00:17,282 --> 00:00:17,712 Speaker 1: Pushkin. 2 00:00:32,402 --> 00:00:35,562 Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to The Spill, a new weekly show 3 00:00:35,642 --> 00:00:38,702 Speaker 2: brought to you by the team at Drilled. I'm Aline Brown, 4 00:00:38,922 --> 00:00:41,942 Speaker 2: a senior editor at Drilled. Remember the ice crackdown in 5 00:00:41,982 --> 00:00:46,142 Speaker 2: Minneapolis last winter? Well, believe it or not, a climate organization, 6 00:00:46,162 --> 00:00:49,842 Speaker 2: the Sunrise Movement, was one of the groups organizing protests 7 00:00:49,902 --> 00:00:53,022 Speaker 2: designed to stop ice from abducting people off the streets. 8 00:00:53,832 --> 00:00:56,352 Speaker 2: And in the last few weeks, new details have emerged 9 00:00:56,412 --> 00:01:00,252 Speaker 2: about how the Department of Homeland Security investigated and surveilled 10 00:01:00,272 --> 00:01:05,381 Speaker 2: the organization. I spoke to Sunrise's executive director, Aru Shiny Ajay, 11 00:01:05,512 --> 00:01:08,292 Speaker 2: about all that and what it was like to enter 12 00:01:08,312 --> 00:01:10,792 Speaker 2: the climate movement at the height of the youth climate 13 00:01:10,831 --> 00:01:15,952 Speaker 2: movement and watch it transform through racial justice uprisings, genocide, 14 00:01:16,092 --> 00:01:20,771 Speaker 2: and rising authoritarianism. You can tune into The Spill every 15 00:01:20,851 --> 00:01:24,212 Speaker 2: Friday between Drilled's narrative seasons. We've got all kinds of 16 00:01:24,292 --> 00:01:28,362 Speaker 2: interviews lined up in the weeks ahead with journalists, researchers, activists, 17 00:01:28,762 --> 00:01:31,002 Speaker 2: and people on the front lines of the climate crisis. 18 00:01:31,622 --> 00:01:38,892 Speaker 2: Here's my conversation with Aru. 19 00:01:38,911 --> 00:01:39,041 Speaker 3: Hi, Aru. 20 00:01:39,172 --> 00:01:40,312 Speaker 2: Welcome to The Spill. 21 00:01:40,331 --> 00:01:42,671 Speaker 4: Thank you so much for having me on. 22 00:01:44,032 --> 00:01:46,972 Speaker 2: I'm so excited to be talking to you. I'm from Minnesota, 23 00:01:47,092 --> 00:01:51,212 Speaker 2: from the Twin Cities. Oh, you are. I love hearing that. Yeah. 24 00:01:51,252 --> 00:01:54,522 Speaker 2: And like ever since I saw Sunrise get involved with 25 00:01:54,602 --> 00:01:57,162 Speaker 2: the anti-ice protests, I've been like, oh my gosh, I 26 00:01:57,282 --> 00:01:59,602 Speaker 2: really need to talk to Aru and find out what's 27 00:01:59,642 --> 00:02:01,782 Speaker 2: going on there. So I'm really glad we finally got 28 00:02:01,822 --> 00:02:02,362 Speaker 2: to connect. 29 00:02:03,062 --> 00:02:04,502 Speaker 3: I know. I'm really excited for you. It was a 30 00:02:04,542 --> 00:02:07,742 Speaker 3: crazy time this winter. And yeah, but excited to be 31 00:02:07,762 --> 00:02:08,322 Speaker 3: able to chat now. 32 00:02:08,582 --> 00:02:12,722 Speaker 2: Awesome. Well, there is a lot to talk about, and 33 00:02:12,742 --> 00:02:15,512 Speaker 2: I want to start with kind of a big question, 34 00:02:15,572 --> 00:02:19,532 Speaker 2: and then we'll reel back and talk about how you've 35 00:02:19,732 --> 00:02:23,042 Speaker 2: experienced the climate movement transforming over the past decade of 36 00:02:23,062 --> 00:02:26,802 Speaker 2: your work. and eventually get back to Minneapolis. But first, 37 00:02:26,822 --> 00:02:30,742 Speaker 2: this like big question. I'm curious what you think of 38 00:02:30,802 --> 00:02:36,122 Speaker 2: the idea that the climate movement is in retreat right now. 39 00:02:36,602 --> 00:02:41,192 Speaker 2: You know, 350.org, I think it was the fall of 2025, 40 00:02:41,192 --> 00:02:45,112 Speaker 2: announced it was suspending its U.S. operations. Greenpeace has had 41 00:02:45,132 --> 00:02:49,172 Speaker 2: its resources drained via energy transfers, lawsuit blaming them for 42 00:02:49,212 --> 00:02:52,632 Speaker 2: the Standing Rock movement. Sierra Club isn't seeing the winds 43 00:02:52,692 --> 00:02:55,032 Speaker 2: it once did. And, you know, parts of the youth 44 00:02:55,072 --> 00:02:58,632 Speaker 2: movement have really been criminalized, including for activism around the 45 00:02:58,852 --> 00:03:02,091 Speaker 2: U.S.-funded genocide in Gaza. You know, and it was, of course, 46 00:03:02,132 --> 00:03:05,742 Speaker 2: just revealed that your organization, the Sunrise Movement, was investigated 47 00:03:05,842 --> 00:03:09,522 Speaker 2: for its involvement in anti-ice protests and was even infiltrated 48 00:03:09,562 --> 00:03:13,162 Speaker 2: by undercovers. So I'm just curious if all this means 49 00:03:13,422 --> 00:03:16,822 Speaker 2: that the climate movement has lost steam or gone quiet 50 00:03:17,242 --> 00:03:21,372 Speaker 2: as climate disasters spiral. How do you think about that? Yeah. 51 00:03:22,952 --> 00:03:26,672 Speaker 3: I mean, I think the reality is like fascism is 52 00:03:26,732 --> 00:03:29,002 Speaker 3: on the rise right now. And that means that every 53 00:03:29,442 --> 00:03:32,602 Speaker 3: movement that is against fascism is sort of inherently in 54 00:03:32,642 --> 00:03:35,722 Speaker 3: retreat in many ways. You know, like we are seeing 55 00:03:35,842 --> 00:03:40,332 Speaker 3: just these dramatic attacks on every single part of our society, 56 00:03:40,432 --> 00:03:43,732 Speaker 3: including climate. From my experience in the climate movement, I 57 00:03:43,772 --> 00:03:45,752 Speaker 3: think there is certainly some truth to the fact that 58 00:03:45,772 --> 00:03:48,992 Speaker 3: there was a huge surge of climate energy, and then 59 00:03:49,012 --> 00:03:51,852 Speaker 3: a lot of it deflated during the Biden years, when 60 00:03:51,892 --> 00:03:56,312 Speaker 3: I think people saw the drawn-out fight around the climate bill. 61 00:03:56,432 --> 00:03:58,432 Speaker 3: If they were paying attention, they saw the drawn-out fight. 62 00:03:58,752 --> 00:04:01,812 Speaker 3: If they weren't paying attention, all they really saw was, 63 00:04:02,472 --> 00:04:04,262 Speaker 3: I thought we'd do something on climate change, and it 64 00:04:04,292 --> 00:04:07,342 Speaker 3: doesn't seem like we did. And obviously, I know that 65 00:04:07,362 --> 00:04:09,782 Speaker 3: we actually did pass a very big climate law, the 66 00:04:09,802 --> 00:04:13,132 Speaker 3: Inflation Reduction Act. But It was a fraction of the 67 00:04:13,252 --> 00:04:15,422 Speaker 3: law that I think Sunrise wanted to pass. And I 68 00:04:15,462 --> 00:04:18,361 Speaker 3: think it was certainly a fraction of how effective we 69 00:04:18,382 --> 00:04:20,722 Speaker 3: would have wanted it to be at actually reaching people's 70 00:04:20,842 --> 00:04:23,622 Speaker 3: everyday lives and showing the ways in which we were 71 00:04:24,032 --> 00:04:27,212 Speaker 3: addressing the climate crisis. So I don't think that it 72 00:04:27,272 --> 00:04:29,912 Speaker 3: is that people are less concerned about climate change. 73 00:04:30,432 --> 00:04:32,492 Speaker 2: But I do think there's been a rise. 74 00:04:32,312 --> 00:04:35,652 Speaker 3: In this, what I'd call almost climate dumerism of there's 75 00:04:35,692 --> 00:04:36,722 Speaker 3: nothing we can do about it. 76 00:04:36,772 --> 00:04:39,152 Speaker 2: We missed our window. We're too late. The government will 77 00:04:39,192 --> 00:04:40,832 Speaker 2: never listen. Like, that's what I hear. 78 00:04:41,232 --> 00:04:43,552 Speaker 3: It's people saying, I really care about this, but I 79 00:04:43,592 --> 00:04:45,772 Speaker 3: don't really know how to direct it in the middle 80 00:04:45,792 --> 00:04:46,932 Speaker 3: of everything else that's going on. 81 00:04:48,512 --> 00:04:54,092 Speaker 2: You know, growing up in Minnesota, how did... you become 82 00:04:54,192 --> 00:04:57,282 Speaker 2: conscious of the climate crisis? Was there a moment or 83 00:04:57,322 --> 00:05:00,282 Speaker 2: something that happened where you were like, oh shit, like 84 00:05:00,422 --> 00:05:01,702 Speaker 2: this is it. This is the thing. 85 00:05:01,722 --> 00:05:05,962 Speaker 3: Yeah, there were a few moments and it was around 86 00:05:06,102 --> 00:05:06,852 Speaker 3: in high school. 87 00:05:06,872 --> 00:05:08,592 Speaker 2: A couple of things happened at once. 88 00:05:09,592 --> 00:05:14,272 Speaker 3: One thing was that there were these record breaking floods 89 00:05:14,432 --> 00:05:17,472 Speaker 3: in Chennai in India. And I have some family who 90 00:05:17,512 --> 00:05:21,322 Speaker 3: lives there. And I remember learning about the floods and 91 00:05:22,182 --> 00:05:24,622 Speaker 3: I had family members who were like, weren't able to 92 00:05:24,662 --> 00:05:27,662 Speaker 3: go down to their courtyard for several days. And they 93 00:05:27,702 --> 00:05:30,702 Speaker 3: were like in an apartment building and they couldn't go down. 94 00:05:30,822 --> 00:05:34,062 Speaker 2: You know, they were trapped. And that really hit me hard. 95 00:05:34,122 --> 00:05:36,642 Speaker 3: I was like, this is, up until that point, I 96 00:05:36,662 --> 00:05:41,842 Speaker 3: had thought about climate as a issue that was important, but, 97 00:05:42,302 --> 00:05:45,102 Speaker 3: you know, about the polar bears and the penguins. And 98 00:05:45,142 --> 00:05:48,192 Speaker 3: that was my moment, I guess, over 10 years ago now, 99 00:05:48,462 --> 00:05:52,152 Speaker 3: where I was like, oh, this is actually about And 100 00:05:52,172 --> 00:05:53,932 Speaker 3: then the other thing that happened at around the same 101 00:05:53,972 --> 00:05:59,052 Speaker 3: time was I actually I was doing like refugee aid 102 00:05:59,132 --> 00:06:01,791 Speaker 3: work for Syrian refugees. I was like volunteering in like 103 00:06:01,812 --> 00:06:03,492 Speaker 3: kitchens and stuff like that as a high schooler. 104 00:06:04,012 --> 00:06:04,912 Speaker 2: And I learned about. 105 00:06:04,772 --> 00:06:07,432 Speaker 3: The ways in which the Syrian refugee crisis was connected 106 00:06:07,532 --> 00:06:12,212 Speaker 3: to drought and climate disaster. And, you know, my parents 107 00:06:12,272 --> 00:06:15,492 Speaker 3: are immigrants from India. We came here before I was born. 108 00:06:16,052 --> 00:06:19,212 Speaker 3: And I just really started to wrap my head around 109 00:06:19,712 --> 00:06:23,562 Speaker 3: the mass violence. global migration that's going to happen if 110 00:06:23,642 --> 00:06:24,922 Speaker 3: we don't. 111 00:06:26,202 --> 00:06:27,302 Speaker 2: Put a stop to climate change? 112 00:06:27,322 --> 00:06:29,101 Speaker 3: Like how many people are just going to lose their 113 00:06:29,142 --> 00:06:32,002 Speaker 3: homes and how many wars are going to be started? 114 00:06:32,022 --> 00:06:34,762 Speaker 3: And I started to understand it as a climate issue, 115 00:06:34,782 --> 00:06:37,792 Speaker 3: but also just something that was fundamentally about peace and 116 00:06:37,852 --> 00:06:39,262 Speaker 3: stability for people's lives. 117 00:06:40,692 --> 00:06:45,212 Speaker 2: Interesting. Okay. So yeah, the idea that immigration is closely 118 00:06:45,252 --> 00:06:47,952 Speaker 2: connected with the climate crisis was really at the foundation 119 00:06:47,992 --> 00:06:50,472 Speaker 2: of your consciousness around this, it sounds like. 120 00:06:51,552 --> 00:06:53,262 Speaker 3: I mean, it was the first way I experienced it, 121 00:06:53,332 --> 00:06:55,792 Speaker 3: you know, which I think sometimes it's explained as this 122 00:06:55,952 --> 00:06:57,012 Speaker 3: abstract thing. 123 00:06:57,252 --> 00:06:57,772 Speaker 2: It's interesting. 124 00:06:57,832 --> 00:07:00,552 Speaker 3: People sometimes talk about climate as a white issue, but 125 00:07:00,612 --> 00:07:03,432 Speaker 3: it's actually, it turns out that Latino people support climate 126 00:07:03,792 --> 00:07:05,732 Speaker 3: action in some of the highest rates. And sometimes I 127 00:07:05,792 --> 00:07:07,832 Speaker 3: wonder if that is tied at all to sort of 128 00:07:07,852 --> 00:07:09,562 Speaker 3: the sense of like, I know what it's like to 129 00:07:09,602 --> 00:07:13,622 Speaker 3: see my home destabilized and what that would create. I 130 00:07:13,662 --> 00:07:15,962 Speaker 3: think it's a really felt issue for a lot of people. 131 00:07:15,982 --> 00:07:20,862 Speaker 2: Totally. Totally. So I'm curious to hear about your involvement 132 00:07:20,882 --> 00:07:24,072 Speaker 2: with the Sunrise Movement. You know, the Sunrise Movement came 133 00:07:24,132 --> 00:07:27,332 Speaker 2: into wide public awareness from what I know in around 134 00:07:27,612 --> 00:07:31,372 Speaker 2: November 2018. There was a sit-in in Nancy Pelosi's office. 135 00:07:31,472 --> 00:07:34,012 Speaker 2: It was all over the Internet. Sunrise, you know, youth 136 00:07:34,062 --> 00:07:37,382 Speaker 2: were demanding action on the Green New Deal. So this 137 00:07:37,422 --> 00:07:39,982 Speaker 2: was the same year that Greta Thunberg broke out with 138 00:07:40,002 --> 00:07:42,832 Speaker 2: these school sit-ins. And it was a moment where people 139 00:07:42,872 --> 00:07:46,992 Speaker 2: were really leaning on youth leadership for an answer to 140 00:07:47,012 --> 00:07:50,212 Speaker 2: the climate crisis. So, you know, my understanding is you 141 00:07:50,232 --> 00:07:53,042 Speaker 2: were involved with Sunrise by then. And I'm really curious 142 00:07:53,202 --> 00:07:55,802 Speaker 2: what that moment felt like for you as one of 143 00:07:55,902 --> 00:07:59,022 Speaker 2: these youths that was supposed to figure all this out. 144 00:08:00,782 --> 00:08:04,052 Speaker 3: Yeah, I was I think I was 19 or 20 145 00:08:04,052 --> 00:08:04,672 Speaker 3: at the time. 146 00:08:04,692 --> 00:08:08,382 Speaker 4: I must have just turned 20, actually. And I was 147 00:08:08,422 --> 00:08:09,382 Speaker 4: there at that sit-in. 148 00:08:09,742 --> 00:08:12,182 Speaker 3: And I remember it was the first time I'd ever 149 00:08:12,402 --> 00:08:16,422 Speaker 3: risked arrest for anything. I remember going into the office, 150 00:08:16,502 --> 00:08:19,742 Speaker 3: sitting there. AOC came and spoke with us. It felt 151 00:08:19,762 --> 00:08:23,572 Speaker 3: really exhilarating. And I remember it was one of the 152 00:08:23,592 --> 00:08:26,882 Speaker 3: first times I felt privileged. powerful as a young person 153 00:08:26,922 --> 00:08:29,102 Speaker 3: honestly I was like I am sitting here in the 154 00:08:29,142 --> 00:08:31,102 Speaker 3: speaker of the house's office and we're going to make 155 00:08:31,162 --> 00:08:34,921 Speaker 3: her do something and you know when we that day 156 00:08:34,982 --> 00:08:36,661 Speaker 3: we actually didn't know how far it would go we 157 00:08:36,702 --> 00:08:38,842 Speaker 3: were like okay that was a good action and I 158 00:08:38,862 --> 00:08:41,742 Speaker 3: went to bed that night and I woke up we 159 00:08:41,761 --> 00:08:44,021 Speaker 3: were like all crammed into this tiny Airbnb there were 160 00:08:44,041 --> 00:08:46,192 Speaker 3: probably like 50 of us And so I was sleeping 161 00:08:46,352 --> 00:08:49,451 Speaker 3: inside of a closet, physically inside, curled up. And I 162 00:08:49,511 --> 00:08:51,511 Speaker 3: woke up to someone like knocking on the door of 163 00:08:51,551 --> 00:08:53,791 Speaker 3: the closet, being like, wake up, wake up. We have like, 164 00:08:54,171 --> 00:08:55,952 Speaker 3: I think it was like Washington Post or something. We 165 00:08:55,972 --> 00:08:58,052 Speaker 3: have Washington Post on the line and they want to 166 00:08:58,072 --> 00:09:00,762 Speaker 3: talk to someone who was there. So I just roll 167 00:09:00,822 --> 00:09:02,841 Speaker 3: out of the closet, pick up the phone. I'm like 168 00:09:02,921 --> 00:09:05,982 Speaker 3: ready for my interview. So that's what I remember. 169 00:09:06,421 --> 00:09:10,441 Speaker 2: It was really exhilarating. It was a little bit scary too. 170 00:09:10,582 --> 00:09:11,252 Speaker 1: Like, oh God. 171 00:09:11,881 --> 00:09:13,292 Speaker 2: I guess nobody has a plan. 172 00:09:13,352 --> 00:09:14,951 Speaker 3: And that means when we come in with a plan, 173 00:09:15,011 --> 00:09:17,911 Speaker 3: everyone's willing to say, okay, what's the plan? And that 174 00:09:17,931 --> 00:09:20,881 Speaker 3: was definitely a little scary, but mostly exhilarating. And I 175 00:09:20,921 --> 00:09:22,582 Speaker 3: loved it so much that I ended up dropping out 176 00:09:22,602 --> 00:09:25,862 Speaker 3: of college. after that semester to organize full-time with Sunrise. 177 00:09:26,021 --> 00:09:29,341 Speaker 2: I'm curious about how you saw things evolve in the 178 00:09:29,362 --> 00:09:33,521 Speaker 2: years after that. Between then and now, we've had these 179 00:09:33,801 --> 00:09:38,302 Speaker 2: defining moments, the George Floyd protests, also set in Minneapolis, 180 00:09:38,381 --> 00:09:42,711 Speaker 2: the COVID pandemic, and then genocide in Gaza. I'm curious 181 00:09:43,072 --> 00:09:47,711 Speaker 2: how you saw the movement and your relationship to it 182 00:09:48,811 --> 00:09:52,232 Speaker 2: over the course of these monumental events and how you're 183 00:09:52,411 --> 00:09:55,002 Speaker 2: thinking about the climate crisis and how to address it 184 00:09:55,041 --> 00:09:56,141 Speaker 2: strategically changed. 185 00:09:57,742 --> 00:10:02,982 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think when I joined Sunrise, I 186 00:10:03,261 --> 00:10:07,732 Speaker 3: really believe that the recipe to change could be pretty straightforward, 187 00:10:07,771 --> 00:10:12,562 Speaker 3: that we could create mass protests, pressure politicians, elect the 188 00:10:12,602 --> 00:10:16,752 Speaker 3: right people, and we would get wins. And I think 189 00:10:16,801 --> 00:10:19,332 Speaker 3: what we've seen, what a lot of my generation has seen, 190 00:10:19,472 --> 00:10:20,711 Speaker 3: is that it's actually. 191 00:10:22,031 --> 00:10:23,492 Speaker 2: I really believe in mass movements. 192 00:10:23,572 --> 00:10:27,271 Speaker 3: And I've also really seen the enormous corrupting influence of 193 00:10:27,631 --> 00:10:32,002 Speaker 3: money in politics in particular, and the enormous lengths to 194 00:10:32,021 --> 00:10:35,921 Speaker 3: which the political establishment will go to avoid creating change 195 00:10:35,942 --> 00:10:38,941 Speaker 3: sometimes because they're often beholden to that money. I think 196 00:10:38,962 --> 00:10:42,261 Speaker 3: that's been my biggest lesson over those multiple things that 197 00:10:42,301 --> 00:10:46,041 Speaker 3: you named. I don't think our democracy works for everyday people. 198 00:10:46,502 --> 00:10:49,261 Speaker 3: That doesn't mean that mass movements aren't necessary. In fact, 199 00:10:49,681 --> 00:10:52,531 Speaker 3: I think mass movements are perhaps the only thing that 200 00:10:52,572 --> 00:10:55,352 Speaker 3: can force a democracy to start working. But it means 201 00:10:55,391 --> 00:10:57,271 Speaker 3: that the way that we talk about climate action these 202 00:10:57,311 --> 00:11:00,411 Speaker 3: days is not just about how do we actually pass 203 00:11:00,431 --> 00:11:03,191 Speaker 3: the climate legislation. It's also about how do we actually 204 00:11:03,631 --> 00:11:06,682 Speaker 3: stop fascism and build the political system that can pass 205 00:11:06,702 --> 00:11:09,321 Speaker 3: the climate legislation in the first place. And that's not 206 00:11:09,362 --> 00:11:11,781 Speaker 3: like we have to do like a 50-year plan to 207 00:11:11,942 --> 00:11:16,082 Speaker 3: rebuild our democracy. It's just actually recognizing that you know, 208 00:11:16,242 --> 00:11:20,852 Speaker 3: Joe Manchin was a literal fossil fuel baron who, Senator 209 00:11:20,872 --> 00:11:25,011 Speaker 3: from West Virginia, repeatedly vetoed the most ambitious versions of 210 00:11:25,072 --> 00:11:30,141 Speaker 3: a climate plan. And there's literally records of Exxon lobbyists saying, yeah, 211 00:11:30,462 --> 00:11:32,442 Speaker 3: he does that because we tell him to. That is 212 00:11:32,622 --> 00:11:35,322 Speaker 3: on the record, publicly, huge scandal when it came out, 213 00:11:35,681 --> 00:11:37,881 Speaker 3: didn't change and everything. So I think for a lot 214 00:11:37,901 --> 00:11:40,301 Speaker 3: of young people, there's a kind of this A lot 215 00:11:40,322 --> 00:11:42,962 Speaker 3: of the broadening of the climate movement, I think sometimes 216 00:11:43,002 --> 00:11:45,502 Speaker 3: it's reported on as like people don't care about climate. 217 00:11:45,982 --> 00:11:48,541 Speaker 3: I think about it actually as a strategic reckoning with 218 00:11:48,921 --> 00:11:52,612 Speaker 3: how broken our democracy is, how unresponsive it is to 219 00:11:52,641 --> 00:11:56,771 Speaker 3: public opinion and people actually seeing organizing against fascism and 220 00:11:56,791 --> 00:12:00,692 Speaker 3: organizing for democracy as part of a climate fight, part 221 00:12:00,811 --> 00:12:03,111 Speaker 3: of expecting your government to be responsive to you on 222 00:12:03,232 --> 00:12:05,832 Speaker 3: any list of issues that have mass popular support. 223 00:12:07,232 --> 00:12:09,711 Speaker 2: You say, you know, you had this idea of a 224 00:12:09,911 --> 00:12:15,651 Speaker 2: more linear pathway to meaningful climate action to be taken 225 00:12:15,692 --> 00:12:19,582 Speaker 2: by our government. Were there specific places along the way 226 00:12:19,671 --> 00:12:23,261 Speaker 2: where that was disrupted and you were like, oh, our 227 00:12:23,281 --> 00:12:25,942 Speaker 2: democracy doesn't work? And, you know, what were those moments? 228 00:12:27,572 --> 00:12:31,411 Speaker 3: The moment that I remember the most clearly was in 229 00:12:31,452 --> 00:12:36,362 Speaker 3: the fall of 2021 when we'd been campaigning all year 230 00:12:36,502 --> 00:12:41,082 Speaker 3: on a climate bill and several friends of mine in 231 00:12:41,122 --> 00:12:44,322 Speaker 3: Sunrise went on hunger strike on the White House steps 232 00:12:45,761 --> 00:12:47,722 Speaker 3: to the degree that one of them had to be 233 00:12:47,781 --> 00:12:52,051 Speaker 3: hospitalized and others had to be like forcibly taken off 234 00:12:52,072 --> 00:12:55,151 Speaker 3: the hunger strike in order to not, to not die from, 235 00:12:55,311 --> 00:13:00,542 Speaker 3: from starving themselves. And to have that happen and for 236 00:13:00,742 --> 00:13:04,782 Speaker 3: Joe Manchin to still sort of basically be driving around 237 00:13:04,822 --> 00:13:09,252 Speaker 3: in a Maserati, getting in his yacht and have reports 238 00:13:09,311 --> 00:13:11,291 Speaker 3: coming out about how he was just doing it because 239 00:13:11,311 --> 00:13:12,031 Speaker 3: he was getting money. 240 00:13:12,051 --> 00:13:15,612 Speaker 2: That was like one of the biggest pieces to me. 241 00:13:15,692 --> 00:13:20,002 Speaker 3: I was like, money and politics is absolutely majorly corrupting 242 00:13:20,102 --> 00:13:23,202 Speaker 3: our ability to do anything. And yes, Mass movements can 243 00:13:23,242 --> 00:13:25,022 Speaker 3: out-organize that. I think we see that in the string 244 00:13:25,041 --> 00:13:28,202 Speaker 3: of electoral victories that we're seeing this year. But we 245 00:13:28,281 --> 00:13:30,642 Speaker 3: also need to stop this corrupting influence altogether. 246 00:13:30,661 --> 00:13:36,242 Speaker 2: Another big question here. I'm curious what you think. Is 247 00:13:36,261 --> 00:13:41,142 Speaker 2: the U.S.-funded genocide in Gaza a climate issue? 248 00:13:41,332 --> 00:13:46,112 Speaker 4: And if so, why? Yeah, I think there's two pieces 249 00:13:46,131 --> 00:13:46,412 Speaker 4: to this. 250 00:13:46,592 --> 00:13:50,392 Speaker 3: There is a climate analysis about why war is bad 251 00:13:50,452 --> 00:13:51,391 Speaker 3: for the climate crisis. 252 00:13:52,881 --> 00:13:54,622 Speaker 2: There's stuff about emissions, all of that. 253 00:13:55,401 --> 00:13:57,881 Speaker 3: My honest answer is that the people who want to 254 00:13:57,921 --> 00:14:01,802 Speaker 3: stop the climate crisis care about everyone across the world 255 00:14:01,862 --> 00:14:05,492 Speaker 3: having stable homes to live in, food to eat, clean 256 00:14:05,531 --> 00:14:08,071 Speaker 3: water to drink, clean air to breathe. And it's actually 257 00:14:08,112 --> 00:14:11,472 Speaker 3: just like a very humanitarian impulse to say, hey, I 258 00:14:11,551 --> 00:14:15,532 Speaker 3: actually don't think that we should destroy the ecosystem of 259 00:14:15,712 --> 00:14:19,382 Speaker 3: literally everyone on this planet. And when I think about 260 00:14:19,462 --> 00:14:23,081 Speaker 3: the enormous support that The youth climate movement loaned towards 261 00:14:23,322 --> 00:14:26,042 Speaker 3: and in fact became a lot of the youth movement 262 00:14:26,122 --> 00:14:29,331 Speaker 3: against the genocide. I don't think it was as much like, well, 263 00:14:29,372 --> 00:14:31,692 Speaker 3: war causes emissions. And it was much more like the 264 00:14:31,732 --> 00:14:35,752 Speaker 3: same humanitarian impulse driving both of those. That being said, 265 00:14:35,952 --> 00:14:38,902 Speaker 3: I do absolutely think that in a world of climate change, 266 00:14:38,922 --> 00:14:41,701 Speaker 3: we're going to face so much more war. so much 267 00:14:41,722 --> 00:14:44,532 Speaker 3: more destruction. I think most people are not wrapping their 268 00:14:44,572 --> 00:14:47,652 Speaker 3: heads around the scale of catastrophe that we might be 269 00:14:47,712 --> 00:14:52,412 Speaker 3: seeing if we don't really seriously respond domestically and internationally 270 00:14:52,431 --> 00:14:53,562 Speaker 3: to the climate crisis. 271 00:14:53,942 --> 00:14:56,862 Speaker 2: I'm also curious how you have seen the question of 272 00:14:56,902 --> 00:15:02,402 Speaker 2: Palestine be used to divide and disrupt the climate movement. Again, 273 00:15:03,092 --> 00:15:05,852 Speaker 2: I think of Greta Thunberg because I associate her as 274 00:15:05,931 --> 00:15:08,252 Speaker 2: the symbol of the youth movement. It was kind of 275 00:15:08,272 --> 00:15:11,552 Speaker 2: this like, darling, everybody is like, oh, yes, our moral compass. 276 00:15:11,602 --> 00:15:15,062 Speaker 2: Here she is. But then she started speaking out on 277 00:15:15,082 --> 00:15:19,622 Speaker 2: Palestine and that kind of started to shift and she 278 00:15:19,642 --> 00:15:22,702 Speaker 2: was sort of recast as this radical and And even 279 00:15:22,982 --> 00:15:25,701 Speaker 2: as a terrorist in some camps. And, you know, I 280 00:15:25,722 --> 00:15:28,602 Speaker 2: think that's reflective of something that's happened much more broadly. 281 00:15:28,622 --> 00:15:33,632 Speaker 2: You know, support for Palestinians and criticism of Israel has 282 00:15:33,672 --> 00:15:37,432 Speaker 2: been used really widely to criminalize, especially youth movements around 283 00:15:37,452 --> 00:15:41,672 Speaker 2: the world. So I guess I'm curious how you've seen 284 00:15:41,702 --> 00:15:44,922 Speaker 2: the issue of Gaza kind of transform the youth climate 285 00:15:44,962 --> 00:15:48,522 Speaker 2: movement and the climate movement more broadly. And I'm curious 286 00:15:48,561 --> 00:15:51,382 Speaker 2: what you think about the way that The climate movement 287 00:15:51,402 --> 00:15:54,162 Speaker 2: broadly has responded to that crisis. 288 00:15:55,561 --> 00:15:58,072 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, what I've seen is actually that the 289 00:15:58,122 --> 00:16:01,452 Speaker 3: youth climate movement broadly responded in pretty similar ways to 290 00:16:01,472 --> 00:16:04,112 Speaker 3: the crisis, which is that this is an emergency. This 291 00:16:04,132 --> 00:16:06,952 Speaker 3: is a humanitarian crisis. We don't think this is right. 292 00:16:07,052 --> 00:16:09,332 Speaker 3: Our tax dollars should not be going to this. In 2024, 293 00:16:09,332 --> 00:16:12,621 Speaker 3: we were running like a fund climate, not genocide pressure 294 00:16:12,632 --> 00:16:15,081 Speaker 3: campaign campaign. on Biden calling on him to declare a 295 00:16:15,102 --> 00:16:18,872 Speaker 3: climate emergency and stop like sending money for wars, for 296 00:16:18,902 --> 00:16:23,392 Speaker 3: the genocide abroad. So I saw the movement actually respond 297 00:16:23,431 --> 00:16:27,931 Speaker 3: with a lot of consistency. Who didn't respond that way 298 00:16:27,992 --> 00:16:33,472 Speaker 3: were honestly political pundits and sort of the chattering class 299 00:16:33,592 --> 00:16:36,142 Speaker 3: who I think saw it as a sign of radicalism 300 00:16:36,602 --> 00:16:41,092 Speaker 3: to be anti-genocide. And I think if we've seen anything 301 00:16:41,132 --> 00:16:46,662 Speaker 3: in the midterm election cycle, I think they were really wrong. Actually, 302 00:16:46,722 --> 00:16:48,561 Speaker 3: the majority of people in the United States do not 303 00:16:48,622 --> 00:16:51,292 Speaker 3: think that we should be funding a genocide abroad. The 304 00:16:51,332 --> 00:16:53,752 Speaker 3: majority of people in the world don't think that. It's 305 00:16:53,832 --> 00:16:57,692 Speaker 3: actually only a pretty small class of politicians who... are 306 00:16:57,832 --> 00:17:01,292 Speaker 3: often bought out by AIPAC money who have decided to 307 00:17:01,612 --> 00:17:05,032 Speaker 3: play political covers. So when we made the decision to 308 00:17:05,332 --> 00:17:09,071 Speaker 3: vocally oppose the genocide, it was right after things started 309 00:17:09,132 --> 00:17:13,092 Speaker 3: escalating sometime early October, we made the decision. We did 310 00:17:13,412 --> 00:17:18,532 Speaker 3: lose some funder support. We didn't have a single member 311 00:17:18,632 --> 00:17:20,811 Speaker 3: of our base really come out saying this is the 312 00:17:20,831 --> 00:17:24,282 Speaker 3: wrong decision. And that is remarkable to me. It just 313 00:17:24,412 --> 00:17:26,901 Speaker 3: wasn't the challenge we were facing. I think they've been 314 00:17:26,942 --> 00:17:28,492 Speaker 3: proven wrong now. I think we're going to need to 315 00:17:28,532 --> 00:17:30,452 Speaker 3: continue to show that this is an issue that has 316 00:17:30,512 --> 00:17:33,351 Speaker 3: mass popular support. And we were sort of painted as 317 00:17:33,392 --> 00:17:35,452 Speaker 3: like radicals for going in this direction. 318 00:17:35,472 --> 00:17:58,341 Speaker 2: I think that wasn't true. Right. Totally. I want to 319 00:17:58,382 --> 00:18:00,802 Speaker 2: talk about Trump a little bit. He came into office 320 00:18:00,861 --> 00:18:04,821 Speaker 2: in the winter of 2025. And I'm curious about the 321 00:18:04,861 --> 00:18:07,972 Speaker 2: months leading up to the ICE crackdown. You know, what 322 00:18:08,032 --> 00:18:13,152 Speaker 2: were you experiencing in your movement between January 2025 and 323 00:18:13,772 --> 00:18:17,731 Speaker 2: January 2026 when ICE really invaded the Twin Cities? 324 00:18:19,222 --> 00:18:21,582 Speaker 3: So January 2025, I don't know if you remember, but 325 00:18:21,702 --> 00:18:24,161 Speaker 3: it was right as the L.A. fires were happening in 326 00:18:24,742 --> 00:18:27,482 Speaker 3: So that's what I really remember about that January. It 327 00:18:27,522 --> 00:18:31,372 Speaker 3: was both inauguration and this vivid climate disaster. I think 328 00:18:31,402 --> 00:18:36,392 Speaker 3: the thing that I'll say is that 2025 for me, 329 00:18:36,452 --> 00:18:38,342 Speaker 3: and I think for a lot of our movement, was 330 00:18:38,412 --> 00:18:41,722 Speaker 3: a year of realizing just how far Trump was going 331 00:18:41,841 --> 00:18:44,881 Speaker 3: to go with the power that he had. And in 332 00:18:44,942 --> 00:18:46,861 Speaker 3: some ways, we knew it was going to happen. We 333 00:18:46,882 --> 00:18:49,721 Speaker 3: had read Project 2025. We had seen what he was 334 00:18:49,762 --> 00:18:52,641 Speaker 3: going to say. But there was something different about actually 335 00:18:52,682 --> 00:18:55,561 Speaker 3: seeing it happen in front of our own eyes. I 336 00:18:56,402 --> 00:19:01,611 Speaker 3: remember his absolute gutting of climate programs, being really, really 337 00:19:01,652 --> 00:19:04,691 Speaker 3: furious about that, his giving away huge amounts of. 338 00:19:04,672 --> 00:19:05,972 Speaker 2: Contracts to fossil fuel billionaires. 339 00:19:06,462 --> 00:19:10,561 Speaker 3: I also remember, I think it was in May of 2025, 340 00:19:10,561 --> 00:19:13,861 Speaker 3: there was a grad student in the University of Minnesota 341 00:19:14,361 --> 00:19:17,902 Speaker 3: who got grabbed by ICE, who I actually had gone 342 00:19:17,962 --> 00:19:20,601 Speaker 3: to high school with. And so that was like my 343 00:19:20,722 --> 00:19:25,141 Speaker 3: first moment of, wait, I know this person. He was 344 00:19:25,242 --> 00:19:28,601 Speaker 3: legally here on a student visa. They grabbed him because 345 00:19:28,821 --> 00:19:31,422 Speaker 3: many years ago, he had some sort of like driving 346 00:19:31,502 --> 00:19:34,081 Speaker 3: ticket of some sort. And that was a real moment 347 00:19:34,121 --> 00:19:36,321 Speaker 3: for me of like, oh my God, I. 348 00:19:36,841 --> 00:19:37,722 Speaker 2: Knew this would happen. 349 00:19:37,742 --> 00:19:40,022 Speaker 3: I knew it was happening, but it's still different when 350 00:19:40,061 --> 00:19:42,401 Speaker 3: it's your place and your home and your people. 351 00:19:42,821 --> 00:19:44,441 Speaker 2: So I felt really aware of that. 352 00:19:44,722 --> 00:19:46,752 Speaker 3: And I think that type of thing was just starting 353 00:19:46,772 --> 00:19:50,712 Speaker 3: to happen all around the country. And it became hard 354 00:19:50,792 --> 00:19:54,432 Speaker 3: for us to organize. We were going to be running 355 00:19:54,512 --> 00:19:58,242 Speaker 3: state level climate campaigns. We were actually running polluters pay 356 00:19:58,262 --> 00:20:01,701 Speaker 3: campaigns and we realized that the Trump administration was preempting 357 00:20:01,821 --> 00:20:06,002 Speaker 3: that federally and was basically passing legislation to stop states 358 00:20:06,061 --> 00:20:10,662 Speaker 3: from passing climate laws, essentially, especially that villainize fossil fuels. 359 00:20:11,841 --> 00:20:14,901 Speaker 2: We were just like, this is silly. It's silly to. 360 00:20:14,882 --> 00:20:18,621 Speaker 3: Be running state-level climate campaigns while the federal government is 361 00:20:18,802 --> 00:20:22,351 Speaker 3: actively being weaponized against our movements, against the campaigns that 362 00:20:22,371 --> 00:20:27,412 Speaker 3: we're running. We actually just need to stop this authoritarian administration. 363 00:20:27,432 --> 00:20:29,492 Speaker 3: We need to make sure that he can't rig elections 364 00:20:29,532 --> 00:20:31,431 Speaker 3: so much that we can't win. We need to make 365 00:20:31,472 --> 00:20:34,532 Speaker 3: sure that he stops kidnapping people off the streets. It 366 00:20:34,571 --> 00:20:38,151 Speaker 3: became increasingly clear that it was just actually just bad 367 00:20:38,311 --> 00:20:42,861 Speaker 3: strategy to ignore what was happening federally. You just actually 368 00:20:42,902 --> 00:20:45,582 Speaker 3: have to go at the root of what's happening. So 369 00:20:45,642 --> 00:20:47,542 Speaker 3: that's how I think about it. I don't think about 370 00:20:47,561 --> 00:20:49,422 Speaker 3: it as a retreat. I actually think about it as like, 371 00:20:50,081 --> 00:20:52,462 Speaker 3: let's stop the immediate bleeding so that we can strike 372 00:20:52,482 --> 00:20:54,512 Speaker 3: at the type of legislation we need. 373 00:20:55,331 --> 00:20:57,491 Speaker 2: Right. I think you said in one piece that you 374 00:20:57,532 --> 00:21:00,212 Speaker 2: wrote that it was like pulling teeth to get people 375 00:21:00,252 --> 00:21:03,891 Speaker 2: to engage with those polluters pay campaigns because of what 376 00:21:03,912 --> 00:21:06,802 Speaker 2: you're talking about. People are literally getting kidnapped off the 377 00:21:06,841 --> 00:21:10,661 Speaker 2: streets and having these really immediate crises. Yeah. 378 00:21:10,722 --> 00:21:14,262 Speaker 3: And I think it's important to say that that doesn't 379 00:21:14,282 --> 00:21:17,442 Speaker 3: necessarily mean that people don't care about the climate crisis, 380 00:21:17,942 --> 00:21:20,361 Speaker 3: but in fact, that people want to do things that 381 00:21:20,422 --> 00:21:21,882 Speaker 3: are impactful and. 382 00:21:21,861 --> 00:21:23,381 Speaker 2: Big and that they can see matter. 383 00:21:24,851 --> 00:21:27,652 Speaker 3: And I think people actually have an innate sense that 384 00:21:28,152 --> 00:21:31,002 Speaker 3: passing the state level climate legislation while Trump is doing X, Y, 385 00:21:31,351 --> 00:21:35,672 Speaker 3: Z to the climate actually has limited impact. We always 386 00:21:35,732 --> 00:21:38,232 Speaker 3: say people can smell bullshit. Like if your strategy is bad, 387 00:21:38,292 --> 00:21:40,712 Speaker 3: people know. If you're telling people you're going to win 388 00:21:40,732 --> 00:21:44,071 Speaker 3: when you're not, people know. And I think that if 389 00:21:44,132 --> 00:21:45,992 Speaker 3: we win back the House and certainly if we win 390 00:21:46,012 --> 00:21:48,451 Speaker 3: the House and Senate, we're going to see a huge 391 00:21:48,512 --> 00:21:52,172 Speaker 3: jump in interest in climate legislation and climate campaigning because 392 00:21:52,232 --> 00:21:54,851 Speaker 3: people will start to feel like, oh, maybe. 393 00:21:54,672 --> 00:21:57,552 Speaker 4: We could actually pass things. But in the absence of that, 394 00:21:57,611 --> 00:22:00,512 Speaker 4: it was really, really hard to get people doing that. 395 00:22:00,532 --> 00:22:04,762 Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes sense. Tell me about this ice crackdown. 396 00:22:05,081 --> 00:22:09,901 Speaker 2: How did it feel in Minneapolis as this started to unfold? 397 00:22:10,601 --> 00:22:14,782 Speaker 2: I know it was a lot. Yeah, it was really. 398 00:22:16,242 --> 00:22:17,002 Speaker 2: It was very intense. 399 00:22:18,682 --> 00:22:25,851 Speaker 3: Our Sunrise Twin Cities chapter actually did some scenario planning 400 00:22:25,871 --> 00:22:29,532 Speaker 3: in November. And we were like, what are the potential 401 00:22:29,591 --> 00:22:31,732 Speaker 3: things that could happen? We use something called the red 402 00:22:31,782 --> 00:22:37,141 Speaker 3: line framework. And it's basically like predicting extremely high impact 403 00:22:37,222 --> 00:22:41,821 Speaker 3: events that could happen that would either create a mass 404 00:22:41,861 --> 00:22:44,722 Speaker 3: response or you could use as a movement to create 405 00:22:44,792 --> 00:22:47,481 Speaker 3: a mass response. And we listed a couple of things and, 406 00:22:47,762 --> 00:22:50,182 Speaker 3: you know, we listed Ilhan Omar gets grabbed by ICE. 407 00:22:50,262 --> 00:22:52,262 Speaker 3: And one of the things we listed was an American 408 00:22:52,302 --> 00:22:53,061 Speaker 3: citizen gets. 409 00:22:52,922 --> 00:22:54,722 Speaker 2: Shot by ICE. Wow. 410 00:22:55,811 --> 00:23:00,032 Speaker 3: And so in some ways, like, yeah, starting in November, 411 00:23:00,071 --> 00:23:01,712 Speaker 3: we were starting to be like, this is a thing 412 00:23:01,752 --> 00:23:03,172 Speaker 3: that could happen. Yeah. 413 00:23:03,611 --> 00:23:06,022 Speaker 4: Operation Metro Surge was announced in December. 414 00:23:06,581 --> 00:23:09,601 Speaker 3: We jumped into gear because we had basically done the 415 00:23:09,642 --> 00:23:14,262 Speaker 3: planning beforehand. We'd already done research into... hotels that might 416 00:23:14,302 --> 00:23:18,142 Speaker 3: be housing ice. So we basically like had an operation ready. 417 00:23:17,922 --> 00:23:18,642 Speaker 2: To get up and go. 418 00:23:18,662 --> 00:23:25,552 Speaker 3: The feeling on the ground was both really scary in 419 00:23:25,571 --> 00:23:27,811 Speaker 3: a lot of ways. Like I carried my passport around 420 00:23:27,831 --> 00:23:32,272 Speaker 3: while I was driving. I It felt like living under 421 00:23:32,311 --> 00:23:35,391 Speaker 3: an occupied city, I think. I would take my dog 422 00:23:35,432 --> 00:23:39,152 Speaker 3: for walks and I'd like see ICE vehicles. Several times 423 00:23:39,192 --> 00:23:41,071 Speaker 3: I'd tie her up around a tree so that I 424 00:23:41,091 --> 00:23:43,952 Speaker 3: could go closer and film because I didn't want, I don't. 425 00:23:43,851 --> 00:23:45,591 Speaker 4: Know, I didn't want a dog running around in the 426 00:23:45,632 --> 00:23:47,071 Speaker 4: middle of an ICE confrontation. 427 00:23:47,091 --> 00:23:50,332 Speaker 3: It was really in your everyday life, which I think 428 00:23:50,392 --> 00:23:52,621 Speaker 3: is maybe the thing that is most missed. Like you 429 00:23:52,652 --> 00:23:56,961 Speaker 3: couldn't walk around doing your thing without encountering ICE. 430 00:23:58,101 --> 00:24:01,382 Speaker 2: But in other ways, it was also very beautiful. 431 00:24:02,042 --> 00:24:06,722 Speaker 3: I have never felt that level of solidarity with the 432 00:24:06,772 --> 00:24:07,752 Speaker 3: whole city before. 433 00:24:07,912 --> 00:24:10,972 Speaker 4: It really felt like everyone was on my team. 434 00:24:10,992 --> 00:24:15,732 Speaker 3: I could go outside and I was under attack that 435 00:24:15,772 --> 00:24:18,012 Speaker 3: I could blow a whistle and people would come to 436 00:24:18,052 --> 00:24:20,482 Speaker 3: help me. That's what I really remember. I think I 437 00:24:20,522 --> 00:24:25,032 Speaker 3: saw more bravery that month or those months later. It's 438 00:24:25,132 --> 00:24:28,162 Speaker 3: really remarkable to me that Renee Good was out there 439 00:24:28,742 --> 00:24:32,142 Speaker 3: patrolling for ICE and recording ICE agents and she got 440 00:24:32,222 --> 00:24:35,462 Speaker 3: shot for doing it. And then tens of thousands of 441 00:24:35,502 --> 00:24:38,522 Speaker 3: people went and decided, I'm going to do exactly that 442 00:24:38,601 --> 00:24:41,461 Speaker 3: thing that someone got shot for because they shouldn't get 443 00:24:41,482 --> 00:24:43,881 Speaker 3: shot for doing that. I think that's really, I think 444 00:24:43,902 --> 00:24:46,151 Speaker 3: it's really brave and really impressive. And I felt very 445 00:24:46,272 --> 00:24:49,752 Speaker 3: proud to be a Minnesotan. I'm very proud of my city. 446 00:24:50,632 --> 00:24:54,961 Speaker 2: Yeah, I was totally, I mean, you know, A version 447 00:24:55,002 --> 00:24:57,742 Speaker 2: of this, I guess, happened during the George Floyd protests. 448 00:24:57,802 --> 00:24:59,861 Speaker 2: People like really showed up in a way that I 449 00:24:59,922 --> 00:25:03,582 Speaker 2: did not expect. But what happened this winter, I just, 450 00:25:03,682 --> 00:25:06,842 Speaker 2: people that I never would have imagined were like really 451 00:25:06,922 --> 00:25:12,242 Speaker 2: taking meaningful and direct action to confront ICE agents and 452 00:25:12,292 --> 00:25:14,712 Speaker 2: to help their neighbors who were having to go into hiding. 453 00:25:14,772 --> 00:25:17,671 Speaker 2: It really, I don't know. Did you expect that out 454 00:25:17,752 --> 00:25:22,191 Speaker 2: of Minnesota, having grown up there? That's a good question. 455 00:25:22,942 --> 00:25:23,582 Speaker 2: Yes and no. 456 00:25:23,601 --> 00:25:27,831 Speaker 3: I think in some ways I know how neighborly we 457 00:25:27,952 --> 00:25:29,932 Speaker 3: are and I know how much we will. 458 00:25:30,611 --> 00:25:31,332 Speaker 2: Help each other. 459 00:25:31,351 --> 00:25:36,411 Speaker 3: But there was, yeah, I mean, in some way, I 460 00:25:36,452 --> 00:25:38,232 Speaker 3: guess I did expect it in some ways, but it 461 00:25:38,252 --> 00:25:40,972 Speaker 3: was just like so much going above and beyond. People 462 00:25:40,992 --> 00:25:44,592 Speaker 3: were just like very kind and very generous and very brave. 463 00:25:44,611 --> 00:25:48,212 Speaker 3: I think over time there has been a real solid 464 00:25:48,282 --> 00:25:51,601 Speaker 3: multiracial solidarity that has been built in Minnesota. that is 465 00:25:51,682 --> 00:25:54,302 Speaker 3: more there now, I would say, than there was when 466 00:25:54,341 --> 00:25:56,891 Speaker 3: I was growing up as a young kid. And I 467 00:25:56,932 --> 00:25:59,732 Speaker 3: think that contributed a lot to our ability to respond. 468 00:26:00,922 --> 00:26:05,022 Speaker 2: Yeah. And I'm really curious about how Sunrise got involved. Obviously, 469 00:26:05,081 --> 00:26:07,661 Speaker 2: you were involved as a resident of this community that 470 00:26:07,702 --> 00:26:12,232 Speaker 2: was under attack, but you work and worked for an organization. 471 00:26:12,371 --> 00:26:14,192 Speaker 2: At that point, I think you guys were still more 472 00:26:14,371 --> 00:26:19,792 Speaker 2: overtly climate focused. So again, maybe this is like the 473 00:26:19,811 --> 00:26:23,232 Speaker 2: wrong question, but I'm just curious, why was this a 474 00:26:23,331 --> 00:26:27,052 Speaker 2: climate issue that Sunrise was going to engage in? And 475 00:26:27,091 --> 00:26:27,792 Speaker 2: how did that begin? 476 00:26:29,311 --> 00:26:32,742 Speaker 3: So the timeline is actually that the September and October 477 00:26:32,802 --> 00:26:36,701 Speaker 3: before the surge is when Sunrise nationally decided that we 478 00:26:36,742 --> 00:26:38,422 Speaker 3: needed to take on authoritarianism. 479 00:26:38,942 --> 00:26:40,982 Speaker 2: And we had given that directive. 480 00:26:40,561 --> 00:26:42,421 Speaker 3: To all of our hubs, and we were supporting our 481 00:26:42,462 --> 00:26:46,452 Speaker 3: hubs to do redline planning, to be like, what are 482 00:26:46,652 --> 00:26:48,872 Speaker 3: the moments that you can take advantage of that might 483 00:26:48,912 --> 00:26:51,672 Speaker 3: happen in the next few months to actually capture a 484 00:26:51,712 --> 00:26:55,172 Speaker 3: movement and direct it against authoritarianism? And so it was 485 00:26:55,212 --> 00:26:57,371 Speaker 3: sort of like part of that deliberate strategy pivot. I 486 00:26:57,412 --> 00:27:01,782 Speaker 3: think Totally understandably, most people actually realized that we had 487 00:27:01,821 --> 00:27:04,282 Speaker 3: made that pivot once we started doing the organizing, not 488 00:27:04,361 --> 00:27:06,861 Speaker 3: once we like, I don't know, sent a memo to 489 00:27:06,882 --> 00:27:07,361 Speaker 3: our base. 490 00:27:07,841 --> 00:27:11,102 Speaker 2: Yeah, because that's how the real world works. But that's 491 00:27:11,142 --> 00:27:13,962 Speaker 2: why we were thinking about it as an anti-authoritarian issue. 492 00:27:14,581 --> 00:27:15,982 Speaker 3: And at the root of it, I think we were 493 00:27:16,022 --> 00:27:20,302 Speaker 3: just like, we cannot be a climate movement if democracy 494 00:27:20,321 --> 00:27:23,422 Speaker 3: is not functioning. And that is what the ICE crackdown 495 00:27:23,462 --> 00:27:26,411 Speaker 3: is a precursor to. Yes, it's about immigration, but they 496 00:27:26,452 --> 00:27:29,071 Speaker 3: were grabbing American citizens. They were using it as a 497 00:27:29,091 --> 00:27:33,351 Speaker 3: way to spy on movements. And we ourselves got infiltrated. 498 00:27:33,371 --> 00:27:35,532 Speaker 3: I think we had a sense that ICE was sort 499 00:27:35,571 --> 00:27:38,532 Speaker 3: of a testing ground of how far can I push 500 00:27:38,591 --> 00:27:41,392 Speaker 3: a military occupation of a city? What can I do 501 00:27:41,492 --> 00:27:43,782 Speaker 3: before there is pushback? And I think it would be 502 00:27:43,882 --> 00:27:46,341 Speaker 3: foolish to look at it as only an immigration issue. 503 00:27:47,202 --> 00:27:51,111 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, completely. I mean, tell me about that surveillance. 504 00:27:51,272 --> 00:27:54,391 Speaker 2: What do you now know about the infiltration of the 505 00:27:54,412 --> 00:27:55,111 Speaker 2: Sunrise Movement? 506 00:27:56,452 --> 00:27:59,831 Speaker 3: So from the beginning, throughout all the stuff that the 507 00:27:59,871 --> 00:28:03,191 Speaker 3: Twin Cities Hub did, everyone was very clear that infiltration 508 00:28:03,262 --> 00:28:08,182 Speaker 3: was entirely possible. I remember a lot of meetings that 509 00:28:08,242 --> 00:28:11,482 Speaker 3: people would run. People would say things like, we think 510 00:28:11,522 --> 00:28:14,641 Speaker 3: there are federal agents in this room. Hi, if you 511 00:28:14,702 --> 00:28:16,971 Speaker 3: are there, we're not doing anything wrong. Like that was 512 00:28:17,012 --> 00:28:19,552 Speaker 3: a normal thing to say at meetings. which is kind 513 00:28:19,591 --> 00:28:23,252 Speaker 3: of crazy. So in some ways we anticipated it. And 514 00:28:23,392 --> 00:28:25,401 Speaker 3: our general line is that, you know, we are a 515 00:28:25,442 --> 00:28:29,591 Speaker 3: nonviolent movement. We are exercising our First Amendment protected rights 516 00:28:29,632 --> 00:28:32,851 Speaker 3: to protest. And if they want to come infiltrate us 517 00:28:32,892 --> 00:28:34,962 Speaker 3: and watch us do that, I guess you can. 518 00:28:35,022 --> 00:28:36,782 Speaker 2: Thanks for making the crowds a little bigger, you know? 519 00:28:37,182 --> 00:28:40,842 Speaker 3: It obviously is a violation of our privacy, of our 520 00:28:40,882 --> 00:28:43,562 Speaker 3: rights to be surveilling groups in that way. 521 00:28:43,682 --> 00:28:46,171 Speaker 4: I think it's absolutely ridiculous. I also think it's a. 522 00:28:46,162 --> 00:28:49,692 Speaker 3: Sign that they're scared and that they're looking for weak 523 00:28:50,072 --> 00:28:52,972 Speaker 3: links to be able to target, pick off. I think 524 00:28:53,092 --> 00:28:57,072 Speaker 3: this administration is currently testing How far can they criminalize 525 00:28:57,112 --> 00:29:00,322 Speaker 3: different people? They're testing criminalizing individuals. Now they're going to 526 00:29:00,362 --> 00:29:03,542 Speaker 3: test organizations. I think they're just like seeing how far 527 00:29:03,602 --> 00:29:08,822 Speaker 3: they can go right now. So it's ridiculous. It's totally unacceptable. 528 00:29:08,842 --> 00:29:12,732 Speaker 3: It also is a little like, to me, a sign 529 00:29:12,752 --> 00:29:15,632 Speaker 3: of our power as well. Like you don't surveil someone 530 00:29:15,712 --> 00:29:17,212 Speaker 3: if you don't think they are a threat to what 531 00:29:17,252 --> 00:29:17,911 Speaker 3: you are trying to do. 532 00:29:18,692 --> 00:29:22,471 Speaker 2: Right, right. And I mean, what were you doing? What 533 00:29:22,492 --> 00:29:24,822 Speaker 2: kinds of actions was Sunrise taking the lead on? 534 00:29:26,362 --> 00:29:28,742 Speaker 3: If you saw any of those videos of people making 535 00:29:28,802 --> 00:29:32,142 Speaker 3: noise outside of hotels, that's the key stuff we were doing. 536 00:29:32,182 --> 00:29:35,362 Speaker 3: We were like banging pots and pans, playing rock concerts. 537 00:29:36,042 --> 00:29:38,712 Speaker 3: On a very technical level, I guess we were breaking 538 00:29:38,752 --> 00:29:42,392 Speaker 3: some noise ordinances, but usually if we were told that 539 00:29:42,432 --> 00:29:45,072 Speaker 3: by the cops, people would just leave. So that is 540 00:29:45,132 --> 00:29:49,372 Speaker 3: a thing that we were getting surveillance by Homeland Security 541 00:29:49,912 --> 00:29:54,562 Speaker 3: as a potential act of terrorism for banging. 542 00:29:53,332 --> 00:29:56,432 Speaker 2: Pots and pans and playing music outside. Yikes. And why 543 00:29:56,452 --> 00:29:58,962 Speaker 2: were you doing that? Well, we were doing that. 544 00:29:59,042 --> 00:30:00,522 Speaker 3: Sorry, I should have said that. We were doing that 545 00:30:00,582 --> 00:30:03,092 Speaker 3: at the hotels. There were ICE agents who were staying. 546 00:30:03,432 --> 00:30:05,832 Speaker 3: And the idea is we were basically making it important 547 00:30:05,892 --> 00:30:08,652 Speaker 3: for them to get rest. And we were asking hotels 548 00:30:09,032 --> 00:30:12,112 Speaker 3: to refuse to house them. There was a huge number 549 00:30:12,152 --> 00:30:12,822 Speaker 3: of them in the city. 550 00:30:12,992 --> 00:30:15,142 Speaker 4: They don't have enough housing to actually all work. 551 00:30:15,522 --> 00:30:16,122 Speaker 2: Stay somewhere. 552 00:30:16,542 --> 00:30:18,682 Speaker 3: And we did get a lot of hotels starting to 553 00:30:18,782 --> 00:30:22,382 Speaker 3: refuse ICE. We had hotels publicly refuse them. We had 554 00:30:22,502 --> 00:30:25,421 Speaker 3: hotels pretend to start construction so they could like have 555 00:30:25,462 --> 00:30:27,872 Speaker 3: excuses to kick them out. We had people like say 556 00:30:27,912 --> 00:30:30,312 Speaker 3: their hotel was full, so refused to book. We also 557 00:30:30,352 --> 00:30:33,691 Speaker 3: did this mass book and cancel campaign. So any hotel 558 00:30:33,732 --> 00:30:37,752 Speaker 3: that housed ICE, we would direct people to book a 559 00:30:37,832 --> 00:30:40,252 Speaker 3: stay at the hotel and then cancel it before the 560 00:30:40,272 --> 00:30:40,931 Speaker 3: stay came up. 561 00:30:41,602 --> 00:30:46,462 Speaker 2: And I think through that calculation, we lost. 562 00:30:46,842 --> 00:30:49,302 Speaker 3: Hilton, which is one of the main companies that was 563 00:30:49,402 --> 00:30:52,622 Speaker 3: hosting ice agents. I think we lost them like 30 564 00:30:52,622 --> 00:30:54,982 Speaker 3: to $ 40 million through our booking and canceling. 565 00:30:55,382 --> 00:30:57,452 Speaker 2: That's incredible. Well, everyone was doing it. 566 00:30:57,472 --> 00:30:59,012 Speaker 3: It was like a really easy thing you could do 567 00:30:59,212 --> 00:31:01,471 Speaker 3: anywhere is let me book some hotels in Minneapolis and 568 00:31:01,852 --> 00:31:02,432 Speaker 3: get them off. 569 00:31:02,332 --> 00:31:03,432 Speaker 2: My credit card. It's so easy. 570 00:31:03,452 --> 00:31:05,832 Speaker 3: You know, that was a real thing that the hotels 571 00:31:05,872 --> 00:31:07,932 Speaker 3: were upset at us for. And it certainly made a 572 00:31:07,972 --> 00:31:10,652 Speaker 3: lot of hotel managers see that when you do the 573 00:31:10,692 --> 00:31:13,142 Speaker 3: cost benefit analysis of do I want ice agents here? 574 00:31:14,182 --> 00:31:15,782 Speaker 2: Or do I want to potentially. 575 00:31:15,362 --> 00:31:18,082 Speaker 3: Lose millions of dollars for my hotel? It's a much 576 00:31:18,142 --> 00:31:20,742 Speaker 3: easier calculation to choose the right side if you have 577 00:31:20,782 --> 00:31:21,662 Speaker 3: that economic pressure. 578 00:31:22,202 --> 00:31:27,181 Speaker 2: Right. And how were you drawing on infrastructure or strategies 579 00:31:27,262 --> 00:31:30,362 Speaker 2: that had been used more explicitly to fight the climate 580 00:31:30,402 --> 00:31:34,232 Speaker 2: crisis in the past? Organizing is organizing. 581 00:31:34,712 --> 00:31:36,232 Speaker 3: When you have a lot of momentum, you host a 582 00:31:36,252 --> 00:31:39,312 Speaker 3: mass meeting, you train people, you do one-on-ones with them, 583 00:31:39,752 --> 00:31:43,262 Speaker 3: you give them the basics of an action. You're like, okay, 584 00:31:43,322 --> 00:31:45,982 Speaker 3: here's how we make banners. Here's how we like take 585 00:31:46,022 --> 00:31:48,482 Speaker 3: good photos and make videos. Maybe what was on the 586 00:31:48,522 --> 00:31:51,372 Speaker 3: banners and the specific tactics changed, but the bulk of 587 00:31:51,402 --> 00:31:54,692 Speaker 3: our organizing infrastructure is pretty flexible and able to be 588 00:31:54,732 --> 00:31:57,472 Speaker 3: applied to a lot of different topics. So I think 589 00:31:57,512 --> 00:31:59,212 Speaker 3: we actually found that we were able to make the 590 00:31:59,252 --> 00:32:00,492 Speaker 3: pivot pretty successfully. 591 00:32:00,992 --> 00:32:04,942 Speaker 2: And how did this crackdown on protests continue after the 592 00:32:05,002 --> 00:32:09,102 Speaker 2: protests ended? And how has that translated into attacks on 593 00:32:09,182 --> 00:32:12,762 Speaker 2: organizations like Sunrise? You know, I'm curious to hear your 594 00:32:12,822 --> 00:32:16,542 Speaker 2: perspective on this Homeland Security investigation, the details of which 595 00:32:16,582 --> 00:32:18,102 Speaker 2: have been revealed kind of lately. 596 00:32:18,122 --> 00:32:23,632 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think what was happening is that 597 00:32:23,812 --> 00:32:27,612 Speaker 3: they were humiliated and scared by what happened in Minnesota, 598 00:32:27,632 --> 00:32:30,852 Speaker 3: and they wanted to make sure other people didn't do 599 00:32:30,932 --> 00:32:34,032 Speaker 3: it again. And so they picked out 15 people, the 600 00:32:34,072 --> 00:32:38,312 Speaker 3: Minnesota 15, to charge and surveil and isolate. And I'm 601 00:32:38,352 --> 00:32:41,432 Speaker 3: really proud of how Minnesota has responded, organizations being like, 602 00:32:42,022 --> 00:32:43,482 Speaker 3: there are no 15. 603 00:32:43,482 --> 00:32:44,542 Speaker 2: You can talk to all. 604 00:32:44,502 --> 00:32:46,981 Speaker 3: Tens of thousands of us if you want, but you 605 00:32:47,022 --> 00:32:49,042 Speaker 3: don't get to just isolate these people and call them 606 00:32:49,162 --> 00:32:52,112 Speaker 3: domestic terrorists or charge them with any of this stuff. 607 00:32:52,772 --> 00:32:54,072 Speaker 2: To me, they were really. 608 00:32:53,952 --> 00:32:57,852 Speaker 3: Trying to lay the legal infrastructure for future attacks on 609 00:32:57,892 --> 00:33:00,872 Speaker 3: movements and test the grounds for how far they can go. 610 00:33:01,382 --> 00:33:03,181 Speaker 3: I think they did something similar, I believe in like 611 00:33:03,262 --> 00:33:06,282 Speaker 3: Vermont or something. I don't remember the exact details, but 612 00:33:06,302 --> 00:33:08,302 Speaker 3: a similar case where they were going after a woman 613 00:33:08,342 --> 00:33:11,342 Speaker 3: for recording something. They're really trying to push the legal 614 00:33:11,382 --> 00:33:14,342 Speaker 3: bounds of what they can do to movements because they're 615 00:33:14,362 --> 00:33:19,052 Speaker 3: scared of movements and because they actually effectively saw, whether 616 00:33:19,092 --> 00:33:22,292 Speaker 3: it's like a smaller version, Jimmy Kimmel getting forced off 617 00:33:22,332 --> 00:33:25,552 Speaker 3: ABC and forced back on through a Disney boycott, whether 618 00:33:25,692 --> 00:33:29,652 Speaker 3: it's campus protests, basically pushing campuses to refuse to sign 619 00:33:29,692 --> 00:33:33,622 Speaker 3: Trump's compact, or whether It's the refusal to let ICE 620 00:33:33,702 --> 00:33:38,002 Speaker 3: occupy Minneapolis. Like movements have actually consistently been able to 621 00:33:38,062 --> 00:33:41,302 Speaker 3: push back on some of Trump's most egregious overreaches. And 622 00:33:41,342 --> 00:33:43,182 Speaker 3: I think they see that and they're trying to eliminate 623 00:33:43,742 --> 00:33:44,461 Speaker 3: powerful movements. 624 00:33:45,292 --> 00:33:47,112 Speaker 2: And can you just explain a little bit more about 625 00:33:47,212 --> 00:33:50,692 Speaker 2: who the Minnesota 15 are and what all of that 626 00:33:50,812 --> 00:33:52,931 Speaker 2: had to do with the Sunrise Movement? My understanding is 627 00:33:52,952 --> 00:33:56,002 Speaker 2: that you all were subpoenaed. Yeah. 628 00:33:56,102 --> 00:33:58,962 Speaker 3: So a few months ago, there was a case put 629 00:33:59,022 --> 00:34:04,222 Speaker 3: forward where 15 people who were union members, teachers, like 630 00:34:06,072 --> 00:34:12,332 Speaker 3: all types of jobs were basically charged with obstructing federal agents. 631 00:34:12,912 --> 00:34:16,612 Speaker 3: And as part of that charge, it was revealed recently, 632 00:34:16,632 --> 00:34:19,122 Speaker 3: a few weeks ago that that there was this mass 633 00:34:19,362 --> 00:34:24,222 Speaker 3: surveillance effort where they went into churches and union halls, 634 00:34:24,282 --> 00:34:28,522 Speaker 3: they came to sunrise meetings, basically trying to find whatever 635 00:34:28,562 --> 00:34:32,232 Speaker 3: they could to pin on whoever they could in order 636 00:34:32,292 --> 00:34:35,332 Speaker 3: to weaken movements. And what you see when you look 637 00:34:35,352 --> 00:34:39,732 Speaker 3: at those is huge overreaches of constitutional rights and rights 638 00:34:39,772 --> 00:34:44,432 Speaker 3: around privacy. People were like, in our meetings and in like, 639 00:34:44,672 --> 00:34:47,201 Speaker 3: you know, we were just like in churches talking about 640 00:34:47,642 --> 00:34:51,242 Speaker 3: how to make noise outside of hotels. It's absolutely ridiculous 641 00:34:51,262 --> 00:34:53,582 Speaker 3: that that would be surveilled in any way. So that's 642 00:34:53,602 --> 00:34:57,262 Speaker 3: what that effort was. Sunrise ended up having our financial 643 00:34:57,302 --> 00:35:00,301 Speaker 3: records subpoenaed, not directly through us. We didn't receive any 644 00:35:00,411 --> 00:35:02,592 Speaker 3: record of that. The first that I heard about it 645 00:35:02,652 --> 00:35:05,332 Speaker 3: was when a journalist asked me about it. They also 646 00:35:05,411 --> 00:35:10,151 Speaker 3: subpoenaed the records of CWA and I believe the SEIU 647 00:35:10,312 --> 00:35:12,531 Speaker 3: as well. So it wasn't just Sunrise. I think they 648 00:35:12,572 --> 00:35:15,192 Speaker 3: were really looking for how can we try and use 649 00:35:15,312 --> 00:35:17,872 Speaker 3: what went on in Minnesota to to take down some 650 00:35:17,892 --> 00:35:22,042 Speaker 3: of the major national players that are opposing our administration. 651 00:35:22,102 --> 00:35:23,002 Speaker 2: And I think that's why they. 652 00:35:22,942 --> 00:35:25,072 Speaker 4: Went after Sunrise and CWA and SEAU. 653 00:35:26,491 --> 00:35:31,681 Speaker 2: All of this dovetails with this National Security Presidential Memo 7, 654 00:35:31,681 --> 00:35:34,522 Speaker 2: which the Trump administration put out as basically like a 655 00:35:34,562 --> 00:35:39,522 Speaker 2: directive for investigators, law enforcement agencies at all levels to 656 00:35:39,622 --> 00:35:44,912 Speaker 2: go after what are basically left-leaning organizations of all stripes, 657 00:35:45,232 --> 00:35:48,651 Speaker 2: especially Antifa, which, as we know, is not an organization. 658 00:35:48,872 --> 00:35:52,932 Speaker 2: It's a pretty wide-ranging movement. But this memo says, seems 659 00:35:53,032 --> 00:35:57,451 Speaker 2: to have led directly into Sunrise being targeted. Are there 660 00:35:57,532 --> 00:36:02,322 Speaker 2: ways that this has worked? What is this about? And 661 00:36:02,602 --> 00:36:06,221 Speaker 2: how has this actually impacted the day-to-day work of someone 662 00:36:06,262 --> 00:36:06,682 Speaker 2: like yourself? 663 00:36:07,982 --> 00:36:11,361 Speaker 3: I think the biggest thing to remember is that the 664 00:36:11,482 --> 00:36:14,362 Speaker 3: goal of a lot of this stuff is to stop 665 00:36:14,502 --> 00:36:19,112 Speaker 3: organizing and And the most important thing in our response 666 00:36:19,292 --> 00:36:21,991 Speaker 3: is that we don't let it stop organizing. And that 667 00:36:22,032 --> 00:36:23,392 Speaker 3: can happen in a lot of ways. It can happen 668 00:36:23,411 --> 00:36:25,962 Speaker 3: because people are too scared to organize. It can happen 669 00:36:26,002 --> 00:36:29,721 Speaker 3: because you suddenly put in new security measures that make 670 00:36:29,762 --> 00:36:33,142 Speaker 3: it logistically harder to organize. It can happen because your 671 00:36:33,201 --> 00:36:36,042 Speaker 3: leadership team is spending so much time worrying about this 672 00:36:36,082 --> 00:36:39,002 Speaker 3: that they're not thinking about organizing. And you actually just 673 00:36:39,022 --> 00:36:41,011 Speaker 3: need to be very vigilant on all of these friends 674 00:36:41,072 --> 00:36:43,651 Speaker 3: that you will not let this scare people. You will 675 00:36:43,692 --> 00:36:46,712 Speaker 3: not let this... create fear among each other and you 676 00:36:46,752 --> 00:36:48,792 Speaker 3: will not let this distract you from your focus. So 677 00:36:49,392 --> 00:36:52,252 Speaker 3: my answer is actually mostly like it hasn't changed the 678 00:36:52,272 --> 00:36:53,892 Speaker 3: day to day of my work that much. And I 679 00:36:53,911 --> 00:36:56,562 Speaker 3: think it's very important that it doesn't. We're taking appropriate 680 00:36:56,582 --> 00:36:59,382 Speaker 3: precautions and all of that. But in general, we have 681 00:36:59,422 --> 00:37:01,562 Speaker 3: to be laser focused on how do we build up 682 00:37:01,622 --> 00:37:06,522 Speaker 3: to mass non-cooperation with this authoritarian regime and build up 683 00:37:06,602 --> 00:37:08,761 Speaker 3: the mass amounts of people power that we need to 684 00:37:08,862 --> 00:37:11,611 Speaker 3: topple it and to actually elect politicians who will stand 685 00:37:11,642 --> 00:37:13,672 Speaker 3: up for everyday people. All of that, that's what we 686 00:37:13,692 --> 00:37:16,582 Speaker 3: need to be laser focused on. So it hasn't changed 687 00:37:16,622 --> 00:37:18,781 Speaker 3: that much in the day to day. We are, you know, 688 00:37:18,902 --> 00:37:21,562 Speaker 3: doing trainings for our base about how to actually think 689 00:37:21,622 --> 00:37:25,382 Speaker 3: about infiltration. We obviously are like talked with lawyers about it. 690 00:37:25,392 --> 00:37:29,571 Speaker 3: We've taken appropriate precautions, but in general, I think the 691 00:37:29,592 --> 00:37:32,312 Speaker 3: thing we are most training our base about and most 692 00:37:32,352 --> 00:37:36,312 Speaker 3: saying publicly is do not let this stop you from organizing. Hmm. 693 00:37:37,181 --> 00:37:41,322 Speaker 2: So to close out, I'm curious, what are the fights 694 00:37:41,721 --> 00:37:46,031 Speaker 2: that are grabbing your attention right now and in the 695 00:37:46,132 --> 00:37:48,011 Speaker 2: immediate future? Yeah. 696 00:37:49,232 --> 00:37:51,752 Speaker 3: Well, I think that the midterm elections are going to 697 00:37:51,792 --> 00:37:54,431 Speaker 3: matter for a lot of reasons. Obviously, on the most 698 00:37:54,512 --> 00:37:57,842 Speaker 3: basic level, I think that it's important that we stop 699 00:37:57,862 --> 00:38:01,701 Speaker 3: Trump from having trifecta control of the federal government. That 700 00:38:01,782 --> 00:38:04,741 Speaker 3: would allow us to reduce ICE funding. It would allow 701 00:38:04,822 --> 00:38:07,132 Speaker 3: us to rein in a lot of the worst effects 702 00:38:07,152 --> 00:38:09,932 Speaker 3: of what Trump is doing. I also think specifically in 703 00:38:09,991 --> 00:38:14,661 Speaker 3: this midterm election, Trump is testing in what ways he 704 00:38:14,681 --> 00:38:18,841 Speaker 3: can rig the electoral system, including by not mailing out 705 00:38:18,882 --> 00:38:22,142 Speaker 3: mail-in ballots, by saying that he'll send ICE agents or 706 00:38:22,201 --> 00:38:24,182 Speaker 3: masked agents to the polls. And so I think it's 707 00:38:24,622 --> 00:38:27,012 Speaker 3: not only important that we have high turnout, but actually 708 00:38:27,931 --> 00:38:31,032 Speaker 3: extra important that we have organized presence at the polls 709 00:38:31,092 --> 00:38:34,692 Speaker 3: and before to help people actually certify the elections, make 710 00:38:34,732 --> 00:38:38,272 Speaker 3: sure that in early January, that people are actually seated. 711 00:38:38,512 --> 00:38:41,332 Speaker 3: This stuff often makes you sound like a conspiracy theorist, 712 00:38:41,411 --> 00:38:43,452 Speaker 3: but if there's anything I learned from the planning that 713 00:38:43,471 --> 00:38:46,421 Speaker 3: we did last year and accurately assessing that we might 714 00:38:47,282 --> 00:38:49,821 Speaker 3: have someone get shot in the streets, it's like this 715 00:38:49,882 --> 00:38:53,241 Speaker 3: type of planning is actually very important and not that unrealistic. 716 00:38:53,482 --> 00:38:56,451 Speaker 3: Trump is publicly saying he will do this stuff. I 717 00:38:56,491 --> 00:38:58,832 Speaker 3: think sometimes taking him at his word is actually a 718 00:38:58,872 --> 00:39:02,212 Speaker 3: good thing and allows you to plan for the worst eventualities. 719 00:39:02,272 --> 00:39:04,852 Speaker 4: So I have a lot of my eyes towards that. 720 00:39:05,372 --> 00:39:08,372 Speaker 3: I've also been really excited by the wave of congressional 721 00:39:08,431 --> 00:39:12,272 Speaker 3: victories that we've seen in the primaries. Sunrise's co-founder, Will Lawrence, 722 00:39:12,352 --> 00:39:15,332 Speaker 3: is running in Michigan's 7th in a competitive district in 723 00:39:15,352 --> 00:39:18,611 Speaker 3: the same state as Abdul El-Sayed. So there's also, I think, 724 00:39:19,332 --> 00:39:21,212 Speaker 3: one of the best things I've seen happen this year 725 00:39:21,411 --> 00:39:25,892 Speaker 3: is the reaction to Trump creating a real new generation 726 00:39:26,512 --> 00:39:29,931 Speaker 3: of politicians who are actually willing to stand up to fascism, 727 00:39:30,282 --> 00:39:32,661 Speaker 3: fight for working people, and refuse money in politics. And 728 00:39:32,681 --> 00:39:35,072 Speaker 3: I think that class of politicians is is going to 729 00:39:35,112 --> 00:39:38,642 Speaker 3: be absolutely essential for the next stage of the climate movement. 730 00:39:40,132 --> 00:39:42,872 Speaker 2: Well, it's been so great talking with you. You know, 731 00:39:42,911 --> 00:39:45,192 Speaker 2: is there anything that you want to add before we 732 00:39:45,212 --> 00:39:45,571 Speaker 2: say goodbye? 733 00:39:45,592 --> 00:39:45,672 Speaker 3: Sure. 734 00:39:48,272 --> 00:39:49,052 Speaker 2: I think I'd just. 735 00:39:49,052 --> 00:39:52,911 Speaker 3: Add that I actually think that climate is going to 736 00:39:52,951 --> 00:39:56,422 Speaker 3: become really important again, and that is absolutely Sunrise's mission. 737 00:39:56,842 --> 00:40:01,362 Speaker 3: If we're able to curb Trump's most authoritarian impulses, either 738 00:40:01,482 --> 00:40:04,802 Speaker 3: in the midterms or otherwise, we are so fully ready 739 00:40:05,201 --> 00:40:08,612 Speaker 3: to be campaigning on an updated Green New Deal, one 740 00:40:08,632 --> 00:40:10,971 Speaker 3: that talks about data centers and AI, one that talks 741 00:40:11,012 --> 00:40:14,281 Speaker 3: about how we need to have a functional democracy to 742 00:40:14,322 --> 00:40:17,451 Speaker 3: stop climate change. And I absolutely think there are many 743 00:40:17,491 --> 00:40:19,832 Speaker 3: more people in Congress now who support that. 744 00:40:20,212 --> 00:40:21,792 Speaker 4: We've been making sure of that all cycle. 745 00:40:22,312 --> 00:40:24,252 Speaker 3: And I think there's actually a far way that we 746 00:40:24,292 --> 00:40:27,531 Speaker 3: could go to that. It's the most existential crisis in 747 00:40:27,552 --> 00:40:30,562 Speaker 3: humanity right now. So I think we are likely to 748 00:40:30,622 --> 00:40:33,801 Speaker 3: see a revival of a new climate movement in the 749 00:40:33,842 --> 00:40:34,332 Speaker 3: next year or so. 750 00:40:35,292 --> 00:40:39,032 Speaker 2: Well, here's hoping. Aru, thank you again for joining us today. 751 00:40:39,052 --> 00:40:41,381 Speaker 2: I really appreciate it. It was so great talking with you. 752 00:40:41,402 --> 00:40:55,261 Speaker 1: The Spill is a regularly recurring segment of the Drilled podcast. 753 00:40:55,322 --> 00:40:57,402 Speaker 1: It comes out every Friday when we're not in the 754 00:40:57,442 --> 00:41:01,171 Speaker 1: middle of a narrative season. If you have ideas for 755 00:41:01,272 --> 00:41:04,011 Speaker 1: folks you'd like to see us interview on here, let 756 00:41:04,072 --> 00:41:07,531 Speaker 1: us know. We're at Drilled Media on all social media platforms, 757 00:41:07,931 --> 00:41:11,972 Speaker 1: or you can email me at amy at drilled.media. Links 758 00:41:12,012 --> 00:41:14,772 Speaker 1: to all the stories we mentioned and to pre-order my 759 00:41:14,812 --> 00:41:18,592 Speaker 1: book are in the show notes. The Spill is produced 760 00:41:18,752 --> 00:41:22,051 Speaker 1: by Peter Duff. Our theme song is Bird in the 761 00:41:22,112 --> 00:41:26,852 Speaker 1: Hand by Fournone. Artwork by Matthew Fleming. Our First Amendment 762 00:41:26,872 --> 00:41:30,902 Speaker 1: attorney is James Wheaton. of the First Amendment Project. You 763 00:41:30,942 --> 00:41:35,911 Speaker 1: can find transcripts of The Spill online at drilled.media. Like 764 00:41:35,991 --> 00:41:40,471 Speaker 1: the rest of Drilled, The Spill is distributed by Pushkin Industries. 765 00:41:41,052 --> 00:41:45,492 Speaker 1: The team there is Eric Sandler, Grace Ross, Morgan Ratner, 766 00:41:45,692 --> 00:41:51,312 Speaker 1: Owen Miller, Kira Posey, Jordan McMillan, Brian Shreberneck, and Jake Flanagan. 767 00:41:55,862 --> 00:41:56,132 Speaker 3: Thank you.