1 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:11,119 Speaker 1: Hey, Daniel, what's your first reaction when you see a 2 00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:15,240 Speaker 1: dramatic science headline? M M, I guess it's a superposition 3 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:20,119 Speaker 1: of excitement and skepticism. The quantum reaction. What do you 4 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 1: mean by skepticism is part of you assume the study 5 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:26,480 Speaker 1: is not real? No, it's more skepticism because I think 6 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:30,960 Speaker 1: the news coverage might not be fair. Wait what he's saying? 7 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:34,200 Speaker 1: The news media is biased. I get this constant stream 8 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:36,640 Speaker 1: of articles sent to me by listeners who asked me like, 9 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 1: is this for real? Can I believe this headline? But 10 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 1: somehow I believe you. Well, I think we've earned more 11 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:46,159 Speaker 1: trust than some of those websites called like coffee or 12 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:49,599 Speaker 1: die dot com or link zilla dot org. I've never 13 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:51,959 Speaker 1: been to those sites, but thanks for the reference. I'm 14 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 1: always looking for ways that Icetein was wrong. I hear 15 00:00:54,520 --> 00:01:11,480 Speaker 1: there are ten reasons you won't believe the seventh one. 16 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:15,840 Speaker 1: Hi am more handy cartoonists and the creator of PhD comments. Hi, 17 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:18,679 Speaker 1: I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist and a professor at 18 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:22,280 Speaker 1: UC Irvine, and I'm dying to find out why Einstein 19 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 1: was wrong. You're dying to find out you would give 20 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:28,680 Speaker 1: up your life find out why Einstein was wrong. I 21 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:31,039 Speaker 1: guess it's more figuratively dying to find out. But I 22 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:32,679 Speaker 1: do get a lot of emails from people who say 23 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:36,120 Speaker 1: they have figured out how Einstein was wrong, and every 24 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:39,160 Speaker 1: time inside me there's this little flash of hope. Maybe 25 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:41,640 Speaker 1: this is the person who has figured it out. Yeah, 26 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 1: you never know, right, I mean, Einstein was just some 27 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 1: dude working in a pen office, and he figured out 28 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 1: that everybody else was wrong. Einstein was a very smart dude. 29 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:52,200 Speaker 1: But yes, you're right, he was just a human being 30 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:54,560 Speaker 1: with a human brain thinking about the way the world 31 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:57,120 Speaker 1: works and coming up with a more beautiful and more 32 00:01:57,200 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 1: compact and more effective description of reality. But we're also 33 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 1: pretty sure his ideas weren't the final ideas. So you 34 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:08,640 Speaker 1: think he is wrong. I'm very sure that Einstein is wrong. 35 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 1: I just don't know who's right. So what do you 36 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 1: do with those emails? Do you a fact check them? 37 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:16,079 Speaker 1: Do you go through them? Yeah? Absolutely, I read them. 38 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 1: I scan through them. I give them some feedback on 39 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 1: the science. Do you encourage them to submit it to 40 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 1: a journal or at least a coffee or died dot com. 41 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:26,119 Speaker 1: Most of them aren't really in journal ready format yet, 42 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:28,200 Speaker 1: so I give them some tips about how they might 43 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:30,799 Speaker 1: get there. I see you give them a tech or 44 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:34,720 Speaker 1: word processing tips. Welcome to our podcast Daniel and Jorge 45 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:37,640 Speaker 1: Explain the Universe, a production of I Heart Radio in 46 00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:40,120 Speaker 1: which we try to figure out how Einstein was wrong 47 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:43,120 Speaker 1: and also how he was right. Our goal is to 48 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:46,480 Speaker 1: explore how the universe works, to wonder about all of 49 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:50,799 Speaker 1: its crazy mysteries, those fundamental questions about the very nature 50 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 1: of reality, what rules all those particles are following. We 51 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:56,960 Speaker 1: want to weave them all together into a deep and 52 00:02:57,000 --> 00:03:01,080 Speaker 1: beautiful understanding of this cosmos, and we want to explain 53 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 1: all of it to you. That's right. It is a 54 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:06,280 Speaker 1: vast universe full of mysteries, and our understanding of these 55 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:10,040 Speaker 1: mysteries is constantly changing. Science is not a constant thing, 56 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 1: and science is not done, still working hard to figure 57 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:15,239 Speaker 1: out how things actually work, because the way we think 58 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 1: it might be working doesn't always pin up. That's right, 59 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:20,960 Speaker 1: and it also doesn't make progress in a steady fashion. 60 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 1: It's not like every day we get five more units 61 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 1: of science. There are moments in the history of science 62 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 1: when somebody has a flash of insight, when years of 63 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:33,760 Speaker 1: struggle finally coalesced into some progress and we make a 64 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 1: great leap forward in our understanding. And you never know 65 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 1: what day is going to be one of those days. Yeah, 66 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 1: everybody tunes into the science news of the day to 67 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 1: see if a great new discovery has been made, or 68 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:49,360 Speaker 1: if scientists figure out how to do some amazing thing, 69 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 1: or if it's just linzila dot org spamming us again, 70 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 1: giving us clickbait. But there are always interesting news headlines, 71 00:03:56,560 --> 00:03:59,480 Speaker 1: sometimes on the on the regular news, and sometimes they 72 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 1: spill over onto the mainstream media, right, Yeah, And sometimes 73 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:06,040 Speaker 1: they seem like click bait, but they are real. You know, 74 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 1: scientists measure gravitational waves, ripples in the fabric of reality. 75 00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 1: That sounds like it was made up by a copy 76 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:16,760 Speaker 1: editor working in a basement somewhere, but that was real. Yeah. 77 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:18,840 Speaker 1: Science does make a lot of progress, and people are 78 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 1: excited when something really big happens. But sometimes those headlines 79 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:25,440 Speaker 1: are a little bit overblown. That's right. You can't believe 80 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 1: everything you read in all of the popular media about 81 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:32,800 Speaker 1: scientific progress. Sometimes they're just trying to get you excited 82 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:35,200 Speaker 1: and make you click on their link. We had a 83 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:39,640 Speaker 1: whole episode about how to critically read popular science articles, 84 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 1: the upshot of which was develop a few sources of 85 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:45,840 Speaker 1: information that you really trust and check those Wait, wait, 86 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:47,960 Speaker 1: are you trying to tell people that you're the only 87 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 1: person they can trust? Is that what it is? Isn't 88 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 1: that how how cults work? I do think we are 89 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 1: a pretty reliable and even handed source of information about 90 00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:00,200 Speaker 1: science progress. But there are other places you you can 91 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:02,680 Speaker 1: get your science news. I like the coverage in the 92 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 1: New York Times and in the l A Times, and 93 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:08,560 Speaker 1: also in Quantum Magazine, often very insightful and always very 94 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:12,160 Speaker 1: well informed, but also false and non informed at the 95 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:14,480 Speaker 1: same time. Because it is a quantum magazine, they try 96 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:17,039 Speaker 1: to deliver one quantum of understanding at a time. But 97 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 1: there's a lot of information and news out there, and 98 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 1: it's kind of like you say, it's hard to figure 99 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 1: out what is real and what is not, or maybe 100 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 1: what is real but exaggerated. I think that's maybe a 101 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:30,240 Speaker 1: lot of what happens in these news headlines, right, there's 102 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:32,839 Speaker 1: like some neggat of truth, but they sort of emphasized 103 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 1: the extreme interpretation of these things. Yeah, often they have 104 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:39,960 Speaker 1: removed the coffee AATs and the qualifiers, and so you know, 105 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:44,160 Speaker 1: somebody does like a simulation of a black hole universe 106 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:47,560 Speaker 1: on their computer one afternoon and writes a paper about it, 107 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 1: and then the news headline is like graduate student plunges 108 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 1: entire universe into a black hole or something similar. Well, 109 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:57,440 Speaker 1: that's probably only exciting for that gratitude. Well, you have 110 00:05:57,480 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 1: a whole ted talk once. I think about the scientific 111 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 1: news cycle and how this happens, how real scientific research 112 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:07,400 Speaker 1: gets sort of filtered and amplified. Yeah, and then how 113 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:10,719 Speaker 1: it all comes back to your grandma and how she 114 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:13,040 Speaker 1: ends up wearing tinfoil hat. So we do think it's 115 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 1: very important that everybody out there have a sense for 116 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 1: what's real and what's exaggerated. So when a bunch of 117 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:20,880 Speaker 1: listeners all send me the same article, I think maybe 118 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:23,599 Speaker 1: it's sound to do an episode about one particular piece 119 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:26,800 Speaker 1: of research. Yeah, and then months later the episode comes out. 120 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:29,240 Speaker 1: Sometimes we rush it right. Sometimes we if it's a 121 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 1: hot topic, we'll ask my hard to put it out quickly. 122 00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:34,719 Speaker 1: That's right. We do sometimes try to be responsive to 123 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 1: the real world. And so recently there's been a pretty 124 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 1: incredible sounding headline that a lot of people wrote to 125 00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 1: you about. Right. I guess people look to you to 126 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 1: know if something is overblown or real, because I'm certainly 127 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:48,160 Speaker 1: not getting those emails. How do you know? Are you 128 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 1: reading your emails these days? But every morning in my 129 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:54,240 Speaker 1: inbox I certainly get a pile of email from listeners 130 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:56,720 Speaker 1: who say I saw this headline? Is this real? Or 131 00:06:56,880 --> 00:06:58,840 Speaker 1: could you do an episode explaining this to me? Because 132 00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 1: I still don't understand it. Yeah. Pretty recently there's been 133 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:06,279 Speaker 1: a pretty exciting sounding headline about warp drives and NASA. 134 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:14,040 Speaker 1: To the question we'll be technic today is did NASA 135 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 1: just accidentally build a warp drive? Nathaniel? Which part is 136 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:22,120 Speaker 1: maybe not real? The accidental part? Did they build one 137 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 1: on purpose? Actually, let's see the parts about this headline. 138 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 1: They're not real, are the NASA part, the accidental part, 139 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:31,920 Speaker 1: and the warp drive part? So they did build something? 140 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:38,560 Speaker 1: Did build something? No, they didn't even actually build. So 141 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:41,440 Speaker 1: let's see which works are left here? Um might have 142 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 1: did something? Might have happened. So I'm looking at a 143 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:47,680 Speaker 1: web page from Coffee or Die dot com and the 144 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 1: headline is DARBA and NASA scientists accidentally create warp bubble 145 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:55,880 Speaker 1: for interstellar travel. There's no might or maybe, Well, we'll 146 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:58,480 Speaker 1: dig into this headline, but first, we were wondering how 147 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:01,680 Speaker 1: many people out there had her about this or think 148 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 1: it's real. So thank very much to everybody who volunteers 149 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:07,600 Speaker 1: to answer these questions for this section of the podcast. 150 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 1: We really appreciate you speculating about things you haven't had 151 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:14,240 Speaker 1: a chance to prepare for, and hope everybody else out 152 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 1: there enjoys them. If you would like to participate for 153 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 1: future episodes, please don't be right to me. Two questions 154 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:22,680 Speaker 1: at Daniel and Jorge dot com. So think about it 155 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:26,120 Speaker 1: for a second. Do you think Naha just accidentally or 156 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:29,760 Speaker 1: on purpose build a warp drive? Here's what people had 157 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 1: to say. I'm pretty sure they did not discover a 158 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:34,360 Speaker 1: warp drive, only because that would be pretty big news, 159 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:36,760 Speaker 1: and as far as I know, I've heard nothing about it, 160 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:39,360 Speaker 1: so I'm gonna say no, No, they definitely did not 161 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:43,320 Speaker 1: accidentally discover a warp drive. I would love that to 162 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 1: be true, but I'm pretty sure that's not the case. 163 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:49,280 Speaker 1: Since you're asking, I think the answer is yes, but 164 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:52,439 Speaker 1: I haven't heard about it. I don't think that's I 165 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:57,320 Speaker 1: can do mistakes like this, at least not now, probably 166 00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:00,920 Speaker 1: in the future. But I don't think this accident just happened. 167 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 1: I don't know, but I kind of hope so, because 168 00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:05,480 Speaker 1: I think that would be amazing to be able to 169 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:08,760 Speaker 1: travel really far, really fast. All Right, a lot of 170 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:11,079 Speaker 1: excitement and either way, people are like, I don't know, 171 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:14,440 Speaker 1: but that sounds awesome. Yeah, just like me. Everybody wants 172 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:16,599 Speaker 1: this to be true. And I think that's one of 173 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:19,520 Speaker 1: the reasons that these articles are successful is that it 174 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:23,080 Speaker 1: touches the excitement inside people. People are hopeful for this 175 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 1: kind of leap forward in technology. Yeah, I mean, I 176 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:28,199 Speaker 1: guess at least the people who read Science News probably 177 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:31,320 Speaker 1: also are fans of Star Trek, and so that that's 178 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:34,160 Speaker 1: where kind of maybe the idea of warp drives first 179 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 1: god spread into the popular culture, and so people are 180 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:39,720 Speaker 1: excited for this to happen because a lot of exciting 181 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:41,600 Speaker 1: things happen in Star Trek. You think people are more 182 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:44,360 Speaker 1: excited about warp drives or like the holidack. Well, the 183 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 1: holiday already exists, Daniel. You have a holidack. It's called 184 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:50,960 Speaker 1: the metaverse. Well, that's right, and we recently took a 185 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:53,720 Speaker 1: trip to the metaverse, so we should know all about it. Yeah, 186 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 1: it's nice and cozy there, But war drivece would be 187 00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 1: pretty amazing, right, because they would let us travel to 188 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 1: other stars and their planets and maybe other galaxies. It 189 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:05,160 Speaker 1: would be really incredible because one of the disappointing things 190 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:07,840 Speaker 1: about the universe is that it's so big that everything 191 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:11,200 Speaker 1: is so far away. We're limited to travel slower than 192 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 1: the speed of light, which seems really fast, but even 193 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 1: in comparison to the vast distances between stars or between galaxies, 194 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:21,360 Speaker 1: it's not really fast enough to get us interesting places 195 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 1: in the reasonable amounts of time. So a warp drive 196 00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:25,840 Speaker 1: would be a wonderful way to like zip around the 197 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:29,319 Speaker 1: galaxy or the universe and just learn so much about 198 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:31,959 Speaker 1: what's going on out there. That would be super cool. 199 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:34,200 Speaker 1: Although Daniel, I feel like you shouldn't be disappointed at 200 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 1: the universe for for being so big. That feels a 201 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:38,880 Speaker 1: little mean, you know, like maybe it's our fault for 202 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:41,880 Speaker 1: not being fast enough or big enough. Yeah, maybe disappointed 203 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 1: is too judgmental. I'm just frustrated. I feel like there's 204 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:48,600 Speaker 1: information out there. You know, there are either aliens living 205 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:51,600 Speaker 1: on other planets and crawling around of those services or not, 206 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:54,040 Speaker 1: and the facts are out there. They either are or 207 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:56,360 Speaker 1: they aren't, and we could know it if we could 208 00:10:56,400 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 1: just like get there and see these things. But everything 209 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:02,600 Speaker 1: is so rustratingly distant. It's like somebody has answers to 210 00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:05,600 Speaker 1: the deepest questions about the universe, but they're keeping them 211 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 1: in a locked box and you can't see them. Yeah, 212 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:10,679 Speaker 1: unless you go to coffee or die dot com. They 213 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:12,800 Speaker 1: seemply have the key. It would be pretty cool, and 214 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:16,440 Speaker 1: it is pretty prevalent in science fiction movies warp drives 215 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 1: because I guess it solves pretty much any plot that 216 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:23,600 Speaker 1: the problem that you might have in setting up a 217 00:11:23,679 --> 00:11:26,199 Speaker 1: space story, right, because without a warp drive, you pretty 218 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:28,480 Speaker 1: much can't have any space stories because it would just 219 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:31,439 Speaker 1: take too long to get between planets or between parts 220 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:34,040 Speaker 1: of the galaxy. What's an interesting question with a few nuances. 221 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:36,679 Speaker 1: I mean, in one hand, you can't realistically have like 222 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:40,840 Speaker 1: a galactic empire. You can't make decisions for a set 223 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:43,679 Speaker 1: of stars that are many, many light years apart, because 224 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 1: when you make a decision, it takes like years and 225 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:49,280 Speaker 1: years even for that information to propagate across the galaxy. 226 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 1: Or how can you like move your army from one 227 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:54,600 Speaker 1: star to another, or gather resources in one place and 228 00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:58,280 Speaker 1: move them somewhere else. It really effectively limits you to 229 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:01,280 Speaker 1: operating in a single soul or system. Yeah, Like even 230 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 1: just to send an email to the other side of 231 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:06,240 Speaker 1: the galaxy would take a hundred thousand years, right, that's right, 232 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:09,440 Speaker 1: So you can't really coordinate across different parts of the 233 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 1: galaxy due to the speed limit of the speed of light. 234 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:14,920 Speaker 1: But you know, if you're patient, you could send out 235 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:18,600 Speaker 1: explorational teams which could discover those other star systems, so 236 00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:22,160 Speaker 1: you could realistically still have like first contact stories, but 237 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:24,160 Speaker 1: you can't zip back and forth between stars that are 238 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:27,000 Speaker 1: really far apart. I wonder if it just maybe our 239 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:29,320 Speaker 1: point of view about time, Like if we live to 240 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:32,079 Speaker 1: be a million years old, you know, maybe a hundred 241 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 1: thousand years old to send an email wouldn't be that bad. Yeah, 242 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:36,640 Speaker 1: that's a really good way of thinking about it. The 243 00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 1: speed of light really is a relationship between time and distance, 244 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 1: And so if time isn't much of an issue for 245 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:45,400 Speaker 1: you because you're gonna live to be a million years old, 246 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:48,600 Speaker 1: then the universe is a lot more local than if 247 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:51,480 Speaker 1: you live very short lives like we do. Well, regardless 248 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:53,960 Speaker 1: of how old you live, having a war drive would 249 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:57,040 Speaker 1: be pretty handy for exploring the universe. For sending emails 250 00:12:57,040 --> 00:12:59,319 Speaker 1: to the other side of the galaxy. And this headline 251 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:01,280 Speaker 1: that people are sending and you seems to say that 252 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:05,360 Speaker 1: NASA may have accidentally build a warp drive. I wonder 253 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 1: wh where the accidentally comes from. Are we going to 254 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:09,920 Speaker 1: cover that. We are going to cover that. Absolutely yes. 255 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:13,040 Speaker 1: So it's a pretty tantalizing headline. And so let's dig 256 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 1: into this idea first of all, and let's start with 257 00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:18,320 Speaker 1: the basics. Daniel, what is the technical definition of a 258 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:21,600 Speaker 1: warp drive? So a warp drive sounds like science fiction 259 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:24,040 Speaker 1: because we hear about it in science fiction, and usually 260 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:27,400 Speaker 1: you hear scientists saying that it's impossible that you can't 261 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:29,920 Speaker 1: go faster than the speed of light. And so a 262 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:33,240 Speaker 1: warp drive just sounds like, you say, a science fiction 263 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:35,880 Speaker 1: plot saver a way to just like dot dot dot 264 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 1: your way to distant stars without worrying about the limitations 265 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:41,400 Speaker 1: of the speed of light. But in the last few decades, 266 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:44,320 Speaker 1: there has been a lot of progress in imagining how 267 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 1: we might build a warp drive using actual science, using 268 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 1: real technology. It's not like we have plans for a 269 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:53,200 Speaker 1: warp drive right now, but we have sort of a 270 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 1: direction that theoretical physics points as towards that suggests it 271 00:13:57,000 --> 00:13:59,400 Speaker 1: might be possible. What are you saying that NASA has 272 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:02,559 Speaker 1: accident proven that warp drives are possible. I'm saying that 273 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:05,439 Speaker 1: we're like step one out of three million towards building 274 00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:08,280 Speaker 1: a warp drive. Are you saying that NASA has taken 275 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 1: the first steps towards building a war drive? There are 276 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:13,840 Speaker 1: some theoretical physicists that have laid the foundation, yes, which 277 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:18,240 Speaker 1: may eventually lead to actual warp drives being constructed. What 278 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:20,280 Speaker 1: are you saying that that's I will eventually build a 279 00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 1: war drive. I think you've had too much coffee or 280 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 1: die this morning. No, I'm just kidding. Let's maybe be 281 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:28,000 Speaker 1: super clear about this, right, this is an idea where 282 00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:31,200 Speaker 1: you have something aboard your spaceship, right, and this device 283 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:34,240 Speaker 1: that you have on your spaceship somehow, let's you cut 284 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:37,200 Speaker 1: through space, right, or go faster than the speed of light. 285 00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:39,440 Speaker 1: That's the idea of warp drives, right, Because it's maybe 286 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 1: different than like the warmhole gate that some science fitch 287 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 1: and stories used to go between spots in the galaxy. Yes, 288 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:47,920 Speaker 1: so you do have to follow the rules of relativity. 289 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:49,480 Speaker 1: And the cool thing about the warp drive is that 290 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:52,200 Speaker 1: it does follow the rules of relativity. We're used to 291 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:54,840 Speaker 1: relativity telling us that you can't move through space faster 292 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 1: than light, and that doesn't change. We can't avoid that. 293 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:01,040 Speaker 1: But relativity also tells us that space isn't just flat, 294 00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:04,880 Speaker 1: that it can do weird things, that the relative distances 295 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:08,520 Speaker 1: between points in space can change. When we talk about 296 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:12,080 Speaker 1: space curving or bending, that's really what we mean. We're 297 00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:16,200 Speaker 1: changing the relative distances between points. Remember that space isn't 298 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 1: like relative to some external rulers, So when we talk 299 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:22,040 Speaker 1: about the distances between things, these are really just intrinsic 300 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:26,000 Speaker 1: bending of space. You often see this rubber sheet analogy 301 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:27,920 Speaker 1: where somebody puts like a bowling ball on a rubber 302 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 1: sheet and it bends the rubber sheet. That's helpful for 303 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 1: thinking about bending, but it's also quite misleading because in 304 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:36,480 Speaker 1: that example, the rubber sheet is bending in relation to 305 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:40,200 Speaker 1: some third external dimension. Here, were really just talking about 306 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:44,440 Speaker 1: changing the relative distances between points in space, and that's 307 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:46,640 Speaker 1: something that we know can happen. That's something that we 308 00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 1: have observed. We see it happen in gravitational waves, which 309 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 1: are ripples in space. We see it happen in gravitational waves, 310 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:55,360 Speaker 1: which are ripples in space. We see it happening in 311 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:58,760 Speaker 1: the expansion of the universe, which is increasing the relative 312 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:01,680 Speaker 1: distance between it's in space. So there was a guy 313 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 1: named al qb Air a few decades ago who came 314 00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:08,000 Speaker 1: up with a sort of arrangement of space that would 315 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:11,119 Speaker 1: allow you to move like a chunk of space relative 316 00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:13,280 Speaker 1: to other bits of space to sort of like create 317 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:17,640 Speaker 1: a warp bubble which would itself move relative to space. 318 00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:20,280 Speaker 1: So you could sit inside that warp bubble and it 319 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:23,640 Speaker 1: would transport you to your destination. Yeah, there's this idea. 320 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:27,320 Speaker 1: I guess that space is not like empty and immovable 321 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:30,920 Speaker 1: and fixed and super stiff or or rigid, but space 322 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:33,720 Speaker 1: is kind of squishy, right, like for example, black hole 323 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:36,760 Speaker 1: sort of squishes the space around self, bending space and 324 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:40,840 Speaker 1: maybe creating some weird kind of shortcuts through space. Yeah. 325 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:43,400 Speaker 1: Einstein's big idea was that the whole concept of gravity 326 00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:46,160 Speaker 1: is not a force the way Newton imagined it. It 327 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:49,040 Speaker 1: was just that things move in response to the shape 328 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 1: of space. That space has a shape, it's not just flat. 329 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:55,880 Speaker 1: And so because we can't see that shape directly, like 330 00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:57,880 Speaker 1: you can't look at space and say, oh, I see 331 00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:00,480 Speaker 1: that it's curved, but we can see how space changes 332 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:02,880 Speaker 1: the motion of things that go through it. We discover 333 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:05,680 Speaker 1: that gravity is just like an apparent force. It looks 334 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:07,480 Speaker 1: like there's a force on stuff, but it's really just 335 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:10,400 Speaker 1: stuff moving through curved space. And you can do much 336 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 1: more than just curve so that the Earth goes in 337 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:15,400 Speaker 1: a circle around the Sun, for example. It can ripple 338 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:18,640 Speaker 1: like gravitational waves, and it can expand like dark energy, 339 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:21,320 Speaker 1: and it maybe even more amazing things like warp drives 340 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:24,879 Speaker 1: and wormholes. Yeah, you're saying that scientists in recent years 341 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:28,520 Speaker 1: have taken these ideas about relativity and figure out maybe 342 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:32,280 Speaker 1: a way that you can make a warp drive using relativity. 343 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 1: And it's specifically something called a war bubble that might 344 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:38,240 Speaker 1: let us use it to actually get to other places 345 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:40,919 Speaker 1: in the galaxy or even the whole universe. And so 346 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:43,440 Speaker 1: let's get into the details of this warp bubble. But 347 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:58,480 Speaker 1: first let's take a quick break or I we're talking 348 00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:03,680 Speaker 1: about the headline NASA accidentally build a warp drive part 349 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:06,440 Speaker 1: of Yes, you know you are giving too much credit 350 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:09,320 Speaker 1: to this headline. It's not asking the question did NASA, 351 00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:13,919 Speaker 1: It says NASA scientists accidentally create war bubble for interstellar travel. 352 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:16,640 Speaker 1: What did they say might have or did they actually 353 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:18,840 Speaker 1: did it? It says they created it. That's what the 354 00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 1: headline says. Well, we are digging into this headline to 355 00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:24,159 Speaker 1: see if it's true or not. And we've talked a 356 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:26,639 Speaker 1: little bit about what a war drive would look like 357 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:28,880 Speaker 1: and what it would be, and it sounds like so 358 00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:32,159 Speaker 1: far scientists have only come up with one possibility for 359 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:34,199 Speaker 1: making a warp drive, and that is to make a 360 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:37,720 Speaker 1: war bubble. And it's based on a special concept you 361 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:40,240 Speaker 1: were talking about. Yes, So a few decades ago, there 362 00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:44,280 Speaker 1: was a gravitational theorist, Miguel al Kubier, who said, what 363 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:47,879 Speaker 1: if you could bend space in a very particular way, 364 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:50,359 Speaker 1: And so he took a spaceship and he bent space 365 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:53,160 Speaker 1: around that spaceship so that the space around the ship 366 00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:55,960 Speaker 1: itself was flat, but then there was a bubble around 367 00:18:56,040 --> 00:19:00,760 Speaker 1: the ship that moved that flat space through space is itself. 368 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:03,840 Speaker 1: So it's like you take a chunk of space and 369 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:07,520 Speaker 1: you sort of slide it through other space and so 370 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:09,719 Speaker 1: that you can just sort of sit inside that bubble 371 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:12,639 Speaker 1: and then you get to your destination and inside the bubble, 372 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:15,399 Speaker 1: you don't feel like crazy acceleration or anything. It just 373 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:18,800 Speaker 1: feels like you're sort of floating there. So his question was, like, 374 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:22,000 Speaker 1: what shape of space do we need in order to 375 00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:24,639 Speaker 1: accomplish that? And the cool thing was that he figured 376 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:27,080 Speaker 1: one out. He figured out a way to be consistent 377 00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:30,679 Speaker 1: with Einstein's equations and also compress space in front of 378 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:33,720 Speaker 1: this bubble and expands space behind the bubble, so the 379 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:38,200 Speaker 1: bubble effectively moves relative to the rest of space. Yeah, 380 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:40,560 Speaker 1: I know we've covered this in our book, maybe both books. 381 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 1: We can. We ask questions about the universe and we 382 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:45,080 Speaker 1: have no idea and this, I have to say, this 383 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:47,160 Speaker 1: always kind of puzzled me a little bit. So maybe 384 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:49,119 Speaker 1: let's step people through it. So the day is that 385 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:52,480 Speaker 1: you're on your spaceship during space and you flip the 386 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:55,160 Speaker 1: switch or you pull the lever forward on your warp 387 00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:58,679 Speaker 1: drive device, and what it's doing, you're saying, is that 388 00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:01,480 Speaker 1: it compresses this space in front of you and it 389 00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:05,280 Speaker 1: expands the space behind you, and somehow that moves you 390 00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:07,640 Speaker 1: through space faster than the speed of light. Remember when 391 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:10,879 Speaker 1: we say compressed or expand we're not like making space 392 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:13,600 Speaker 1: more dense or anything. What we're doing is changing the 393 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:17,320 Speaker 1: relative distances between points. That's what general relativity in Einstein's 394 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:20,200 Speaker 1: equations do. They start from a certain distribution of matter 395 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:22,240 Speaker 1: and energy, and they say, if you have a blob 396 00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:24,600 Speaker 1: of stuff here and a blob of stuff there, how 397 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:27,760 Speaker 1: will space curve? What are the relative distances between any 398 00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:31,000 Speaker 1: two points? So that's called the metric. The solution to 399 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:33,600 Speaker 1: Einstein's equations is the metric, which is just another word 400 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:36,199 Speaker 1: for like how to space curve, or another way to 401 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:39,239 Speaker 1: think about like the relative distances between two points. So 402 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:42,399 Speaker 1: Alcubier's warp bubble says, is there a way to shrink 403 00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:45,919 Speaker 1: distances in front of this warp bubble and expand distances 404 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:48,240 Speaker 1: behind it? Okay, so let's say I'm in my spaceship, 405 00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:50,600 Speaker 1: I'm orbiting the Earth, and let's say you just want 406 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:53,399 Speaker 1: to take a short hop over to Jupiter. So I 407 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:56,320 Speaker 1: engage my warp drive, I pushed the lever forward, I 408 00:20:56,359 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 1: put on my seat belt, and suddenly the space in 409 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:02,240 Speaker 1: front of me between me and Jupiter, instead of being 410 00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:05,919 Speaker 1: millions of miles, suddenly it's three miles. Is that what 411 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:08,960 Speaker 1: you're saying, Like, somehow I am affecting the space between 412 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:13,159 Speaker 1: me and Jupiter, so that what used to be billions 413 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:15,479 Speaker 1: of miles is now just a few miles. Is that 414 00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:18,480 Speaker 1: the idea? That's the idea, and that only works for 415 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:21,639 Speaker 1: me or for anyone like caught in the middle or 416 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:24,560 Speaker 1: anyone who hops in behind me. Do you know what 417 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:27,080 Speaker 1: I mean? Am I just affecting the space relative to 418 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:29,800 Speaker 1: me as an observer? Or am I actually affecting the 419 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:32,480 Speaker 1: space between here and Jupiter? So it works for anybody 420 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:36,679 Speaker 1: within the war bubble. It creates this sphere around the spaceship, 421 00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:40,679 Speaker 1: and that sphere then gets slid along through space, so 422 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:42,960 Speaker 1: it sort of gets moved, so it gets rearranged. Its 423 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:46,640 Speaker 1: relationship to the rest of space changes, right, It's now 424 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:51,600 Speaker 1: closer to Jupiter and further from Earth, and so anything 425 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:55,159 Speaker 1: inside that war bubble has the same experience. Does that 426 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:58,560 Speaker 1: mean that the bubble needs to encompass Jupiter? Or am 427 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:01,720 Speaker 1: I just compressing the distance between here and the edge 428 00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:04,080 Speaker 1: of the bubble? Inside the bubble, everybody hangs out and 429 00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:08,159 Speaker 1: SIPs their coffee. The bubble's edge is where space is 430 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:11,560 Speaker 1: being compressed, So between the bubble and Jupiter space is 431 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:14,760 Speaker 1: being compressed, that distance is being shortened, and between the 432 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:16,679 Speaker 1: other edge of the bubble which is sort of behind you, 433 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:20,000 Speaker 1: that space is being expanded. What if there's something right 434 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:23,399 Speaker 1: in front of me outside of the bubble, but between 435 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:26,080 Speaker 1: me and Jupiter, Like let's say there's a satellite there 436 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:29,720 Speaker 1: or an old Grammar crossing this interstellar street, Like, what 437 00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:32,240 Speaker 1: happens to that person in between? Did they get squished 438 00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:34,960 Speaker 1: or do they not even see this, this bending of 439 00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:37,720 Speaker 1: space that's happening to me or to my bubble? Yeah, 440 00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:40,320 Speaker 1: this would be bad news for space Gramma for sure. 441 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:43,960 Speaker 1: I mean this is very destructive changing of the shape 442 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:47,960 Speaker 1: of space. Basically, anywhere between your warp bubble and Jupiter 443 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:51,080 Speaker 1: and the same thing between you and behind what get squished? 444 00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:54,760 Speaker 1: It would get squished absolutely. Oh so between so I 445 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:57,120 Speaker 1: mean a bubble, let's say invent bubble is the spaceship. 446 00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:00,240 Speaker 1: So anything inside the specip is normal, anything outside gets 447 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:03,119 Speaker 1: bent around, and so the space between the spaceship and 448 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:06,560 Speaker 1: Jupiter gets compressed. And but then wouldn't that affect the 449 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:09,879 Speaker 1: other planets as well? You're saying anything caught in the 450 00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 1: middle will get squished, But would it affect like the 451 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:14,520 Speaker 1: orbits of planets and everything else in the near vicinity 452 00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:16,560 Speaker 1: of your ship? It certainly does affect things. So things 453 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:20,080 Speaker 1: in your path definitely do get affected, So you know 454 00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:22,800 Speaker 1: warnings to all the space. Grandma's out there taking a walk, 455 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:25,280 Speaker 1: and anything very close by is going to get affected. 456 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:27,280 Speaker 1: But the shape of the work bubble is quite tight, 457 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:29,520 Speaker 1: so it doesn't like affect the gravity of things very 458 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:31,800 Speaker 1: far away. Well, let's get into what would happen to 459 00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:36,240 Speaker 1: Grandma she gets like squished flat or or what or 460 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:39,119 Speaker 1: would she even noticed because you know, she's spaces just 461 00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:42,200 Speaker 1: changing her runner and so her molecules also change space. 462 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 1: Grandma would be very unlikely to survive this encounter because 463 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:48,720 Speaker 1: the space she's in its metric would be changing, and 464 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:51,159 Speaker 1: so that's likely to tear her apart. Changes in the 465 00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:53,680 Speaker 1: shape of space can have an effect on the objects 466 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:56,959 Speaker 1: in that space. That's how, for example, we discover gravitational waves. 467 00:23:57,040 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 1: We see that space is shaking a little bit, changes 468 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:02,879 Speaker 1: the relative distance, for example, between mirrors that are hanging 469 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:06,400 Speaker 1: underground miles apart, and so you probably don't want that 470 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:08,879 Speaker 1: to happen to your space. It's happening all the time 471 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:11,919 Speaker 1: right now. Space is expanding out from under us because 472 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:14,800 Speaker 1: of dark energy, but it's very very gentle, and our 473 00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:18,080 Speaker 1: molecules are powerful enough to hold ourselves together. If that 474 00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:20,520 Speaker 1: was much more rapid, then you would get torn apart. 475 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:23,000 Speaker 1: And so that's what's going to be happening behind the 476 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,560 Speaker 1: work bubble, and the opposite is what's happening in front 477 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:28,040 Speaker 1: of the warp bubble. So yes, that will be quite destructive. 478 00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:30,359 Speaker 1: I guess that's why you need crosswalks even in space. 479 00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:33,560 Speaker 1: So then the space in front of me between here 480 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:36,159 Speaker 1: and Jupiter suddenly goes from a few million miles to 481 00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:39,159 Speaker 1: two miles. And then you're saying the space behind me. 482 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:41,360 Speaker 1: You know, I was an orbit around Earth, but now 483 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:44,160 Speaker 1: suddenly the space behind me, me and Earth goes from 484 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:46,480 Speaker 1: a few miles to a few million miles. Is that 485 00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:50,400 Speaker 1: the idea? Exactly? And that's basically travel, right. You've gone 486 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:53,200 Speaker 1: from far away from Jupiter too close to Jupiter. Yeah, 487 00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:54,840 Speaker 1: But then I guess what's the next step. Do I 488 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:57,320 Speaker 1: then move the few miles and suddenly I'm in Jupiter? 489 00:24:57,480 --> 00:24:59,680 Speaker 1: Or do I just turn it off and suddenly I'm there? Yeah, 490 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:01,199 Speaker 1: you just turn it off. I mean your goal was 491 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:03,800 Speaker 1: to get close to Jupiter, right, So you've rearranged space 492 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:05,879 Speaker 1: and now you're close to Jupiter, right, you're two miles 493 00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:08,679 Speaker 1: from Jupiter and two million miles from Earth instead of 494 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:11,480 Speaker 1: the opposite. It is weird because I compressed space in 495 00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:14,280 Speaker 1: front of me, but don't I need to expand it again. 496 00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:18,720 Speaker 1: Remember that compressing space is changing the relative distance, right, 497 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 1: So that is already accomplishing your goal. Right. Your goal 498 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:23,640 Speaker 1: is I want to be close to Jupiter and far 499 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:26,159 Speaker 1: from Earth. And so that's what the war bubble has 500 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:29,040 Speaker 1: done for you. It's rearrange space so that now you 501 00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:32,760 Speaker 1: are close to Jupiter and far from Earth. It feels 502 00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:34,600 Speaker 1: kind of like magic, like you just said, like, hey, 503 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:36,399 Speaker 1: I want to be there, so you're there. It's not 504 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:40,240 Speaker 1: exactly magic, but it's also not exactly science yet. I Mean, 505 00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 1: what al Kubire did was just say, is there a 506 00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:45,760 Speaker 1: way to arrange space in a manner that still is 507 00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:50,360 Speaker 1: a solution to Einstein's equations? Like do Einstein's equations prohibit 508 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:52,600 Speaker 1: this from happening? And the answer is no. What he 509 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:55,560 Speaker 1: didn't do is figure out how to make it happen. 510 00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:58,520 Speaker 1: Like Einstein's equations go in one direction, they say, if 511 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:00,920 Speaker 1: you have this arrangement of mass and stuff in universe, 512 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:03,320 Speaker 1: what is the shape of space around it? Cool? And 513 00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 1: then how does things move in that space? What they 514 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:08,879 Speaker 1: don't do is tell you, if you want a certain 515 00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:11,320 Speaker 1: shape of space, how do you build it? And so 516 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:14,080 Speaker 1: Alcubier just said, well, is it possible to have this 517 00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:17,320 Speaker 1: shape of space? And Einstein's equations say yes, that would 518 00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:19,960 Speaker 1: satisfy the equations, But it doesn't tell you how to 519 00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:23,160 Speaker 1: arrange stuff in the universe to make space do that. 520 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:26,640 Speaker 1: That might be impossible, And in Alcubier's paper he discovers 521 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:28,800 Speaker 1: that the only way he could come up with to 522 00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:31,320 Speaker 1: make this happen was to have some weird kind of 523 00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 1: matter that has negative mass or negative energy density, which 524 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:37,920 Speaker 1: as far as we know, doesn't exist in the universe. 525 00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:41,159 Speaker 1: I see you're saying, Einstein's equations what we know to 526 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:43,560 Speaker 1: be true. We know it works, but it doesn't tell 527 00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:47,200 Speaker 1: us that we can't do magic. Basic like, it tells 528 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:49,320 Speaker 1: you that it's possible to be here close to Earth, 529 00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:52,640 Speaker 1: and it's also possible to be there close to Jupiter. Uh. 530 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:55,520 Speaker 1: And so technically you might be able to figure out 531 00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:58,320 Speaker 1: a way to make those two things sequential in time 532 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:02,040 Speaker 1: very quickly. Yeah, And it's a little bit more than that, right. 533 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:05,080 Speaker 1: He did show that it doesn't violate Einstein's equations, which 534 00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:08,320 Speaker 1: means space says, sure, I can do that if you 535 00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:11,520 Speaker 1: assemble mass and energy in the right configuration to make 536 00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:14,639 Speaker 1: me do that. I won't tell you how to arrange it, right, 537 00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:17,120 Speaker 1: I won't tell you what the recipe is. But in principle, 538 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:19,919 Speaker 1: let's not off the table. So that's like a big 539 00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:21,800 Speaker 1: hole in the argument. We don't know how to build 540 00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:24,679 Speaker 1: this thing, but the universe's list of rules don't explicitly 541 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:27,080 Speaker 1: prohibit it. But what does the recipe? What does it 542 00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:30,720 Speaker 1: actually say? You're saying it needs like negative energy or 543 00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,480 Speaker 1: negative mass, And then what do I do that? Do 544 00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:34,879 Speaker 1: I just put it in front of me? Do I 545 00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:37,600 Speaker 1: need to lay it out between here and Jupiter? Do 546 00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:39,720 Speaker 1: I need to you know, spit it out in front 547 00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:42,280 Speaker 1: of me? You know? And like what does it say 548 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:45,560 Speaker 1: about how to use this or how you would need 549 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:48,240 Speaker 1: to use this negative energy? So since the original paper, 550 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:50,960 Speaker 1: there's been a proliferation of really cool ideas about how 551 00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:53,240 Speaker 1: to do this and how to do it more efficiently. 552 00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:57,080 Speaker 1: So far, every solution, every paper I've read, requires using 553 00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:00,840 Speaker 1: some kind of negative energy density matter behind you in 554 00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:04,000 Speaker 1: order to expand space, and some sort of positive energy. 555 00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:06,040 Speaker 1: The entity matter of like normal matter like me and 556 00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:09,359 Speaker 1: you in front of you to compress space. So basically 557 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:12,560 Speaker 1: you have to build a track of matter in front 558 00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:15,000 Speaker 1: of you that compresses the space, and then you have 559 00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:18,200 Speaker 1: to have negative matter behind you to expand the space. 560 00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:20,119 Speaker 1: So I do, I do have to lay out the 561 00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:23,640 Speaker 1: whole track, the whole highway for the world drive to work. 562 00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:26,880 Speaker 1: And you need to have positive energy mass in front 563 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:30,119 Speaker 1: of you and negative energy mass behind you. All right. 564 00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:32,080 Speaker 1: We talked about this once on an episode about whether 565 00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:35,359 Speaker 1: you could use a warp drive to escape a black hole. Basically, 566 00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:37,040 Speaker 1: you have to build the track out of the black 567 00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:39,840 Speaker 1: hole first in order for this to work. All right, 568 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,240 Speaker 1: So then I have to build a track. I guess 569 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:44,280 Speaker 1: I would have to build it. But to build the track, 570 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:47,479 Speaker 1: I have to get the Jupiter first. Yeah, exactly, Like 571 00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:49,640 Speaker 1: you know, to lay out a highway between here and Jupiter, 572 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:55,600 Speaker 1: I have to go from your Jupiter exactly, huge caveat there. Right, 573 00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:58,160 Speaker 1: you have to build this track somehow. I mean it's 574 00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:00,640 Speaker 1: possible that somebody else could come up with another way 575 00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:03,360 Speaker 1: to make space do this that doesn't require you to 576 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:05,440 Speaker 1: visit that place in advance and sort of be able 577 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:08,840 Speaker 1: to track along the way. Remember that Einstein's equations just 578 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:11,680 Speaker 1: say space can do that if you can figure out how, 579 00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:13,880 Speaker 1: And now people are trying to be creative about figuring 580 00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:15,960 Speaker 1: out how to do that, and so that's one obstacles, 581 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:18,200 Speaker 1: like laying this track in front of you. The bigger 582 00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:21,920 Speaker 1: obstacle is that we've never seen anything with negative energy 583 00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:24,680 Speaker 1: density before. We don't even know if that's possible to 584 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:27,320 Speaker 1: do in the universe. It sounds like it's more of 585 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:31,600 Speaker 1: a like a warp train than a warp drive, right, 586 00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:33,280 Speaker 1: Like you kind of have to lay out the tracks 587 00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:35,120 Speaker 1: or are you gonna be like those cartoons where you're 588 00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:37,240 Speaker 1: like going and laying the tracks down at the same time. 589 00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:39,520 Speaker 1: Leave it to the engineers to figure out some way 590 00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:42,440 Speaker 1: to make this very effective. The physicists are just like, well, 591 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:45,120 Speaker 1: space says we can do this if somehow we can 592 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:47,960 Speaker 1: arrange a strange matter in the right configuration. Right. But 593 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:49,920 Speaker 1: as as the engineer, I would be mad if you 594 00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:51,320 Speaker 1: told me like, hey, I can out with a way 595 00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:53,520 Speaker 1: to make a warp drive, but it's actually a warp train, 596 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:55,760 Speaker 1: you know, and then then we brought all the wrong 597 00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,480 Speaker 1: tools to make it. You'd be disappointed in a warp train. 598 00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:00,760 Speaker 1: I'd still be pretty excited about warp train. I mean, 599 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:03,280 Speaker 1: you're right, it's not a warp drive but a warp train. 600 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:05,560 Speaker 1: It's still pretty awesome. Yeah, No, I think both. It 601 00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:08,080 Speaker 1: would be exciting. But you know, if I'm gonna pay 602 00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:09,920 Speaker 1: for a ticket, I want to know what I'm getting, 603 00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:12,360 Speaker 1: or if it's going to be a train ride or 604 00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:15,440 Speaker 1: it's gonna I'm gonna see some fancy star show. All right, 605 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:17,840 Speaker 1: So then it seems like it's it is possible, at 606 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:21,160 Speaker 1: least from a theoretical perspective, to make a warp something 607 00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:25,120 Speaker 1: warp driver or train or I don't know, tram. Perhaps 608 00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:27,960 Speaker 1: how about a warp zip line that would be pretty cool. Oh, 609 00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:30,400 Speaker 1: there you go. So it seems possible. But the question 610 00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:33,040 Speaker 1: is how you would make it. And there's this idea 611 00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:36,040 Speaker 1: of a Casimir effect that might be able to do it, 612 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:38,880 Speaker 1: and that's kind of where where this headline all originated. Right, 613 00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:41,440 Speaker 1: So what exactly did this study that the headline is 614 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:43,880 Speaker 1: based on do. This study is trying to make progress 615 00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:46,840 Speaker 1: on the stickiest part of the warp drive or warp 616 00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:51,440 Speaker 1: train project, which is negative energy density. Right. By energy 617 00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:53,640 Speaker 1: density would just mean like how much stuff is there 618 00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:57,000 Speaker 1: in a certain part of space. Matter has energy to it, 619 00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:00,200 Speaker 1: right equals mc squared, and so if there's a lab 620 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:03,080 Speaker 1: of stuff in space, that's positive energy density. So the 621 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:06,200 Speaker 1: warp drives needs something with negative energy density in order 622 00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:08,960 Speaker 1: to expand the space behind you. And so this project 623 00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:11,440 Speaker 1: was trying to figure out like, well, is it possible 624 00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:14,520 Speaker 1: to build things with negative energy density? And here's the 625 00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:17,920 Speaker 1: accidental part. They weren't actually trying to crack this problem 626 00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:21,240 Speaker 1: of the warp drive. They were just studying the Cassimir effect, 627 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:24,000 Speaker 1: which is a well known and actual thing which we 628 00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:26,280 Speaker 1: have proven is real. And they were looking at the 629 00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:29,560 Speaker 1: energy density of the Cassimir effect and they noticed something 630 00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:33,640 Speaker 1: interesting to them, at least which they connected with warp drives. 631 00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:36,600 Speaker 1: I see. So this is now jumping off from this 632 00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,760 Speaker 1: idea of a warp train that you can compress space 633 00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:42,520 Speaker 1: and expanded behind you. But to expand the space behind 634 00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:45,000 Speaker 1: you you need negative energy. And so these folks were 635 00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:48,360 Speaker 1: studying negative energy and you're saying they found something, but 636 00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:50,960 Speaker 1: they did find something interesting, that's true. I mean, I've 637 00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:53,160 Speaker 1: read their paper. What they were doing is studying the 638 00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:56,320 Speaker 1: Cassimir effect, which is a really interesting and super awesome 639 00:31:56,440 --> 00:32:00,760 Speaker 1: quantum effect that appeared between two play that are very 640 00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:04,080 Speaker 1: very close together. So imagine two like two sheets of 641 00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:07,280 Speaker 1: metal and bring them like ten nanometers apart. What you 642 00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:09,480 Speaker 1: discover if you do that is that there's a force 643 00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:12,080 Speaker 1: between them. Even if they have like no electric charge 644 00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:15,120 Speaker 1: on them and we're ignoring gravity, you can measure this 645 00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:18,920 Speaker 1: force which appears between the plates because of this strange 646 00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:22,680 Speaker 1: quantum effect called the Cassimir effect. Okay, so what is this. 647 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:25,480 Speaker 1: What's happening in the Casimir effect is that we're actually 648 00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:29,600 Speaker 1: interacting with and probing the vacuum energy of space. Remember 649 00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:31,800 Speaker 1: we've talked about how space is not just empty, it 650 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:34,880 Speaker 1: is filled with quantum fields. Like there's a photon in 651 00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:37,760 Speaker 1: space that's a wiggle in the electromagnetic field. There's an 652 00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:41,240 Speaker 1: electron in space that's a wiggle in the electron field. 653 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:43,040 Speaker 1: But even if you don't have a photon, and even 654 00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:45,800 Speaker 1: if you don't have an electron, space still has these 655 00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:49,520 Speaker 1: fields in them, these possibilities for particles to pass through them. 656 00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:52,040 Speaker 1: And because their quantum fields, they can never actually go 657 00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:54,880 Speaker 1: all the way down to zero energy. There's always a 658 00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:57,239 Speaker 1: little bit of fuzz, a little bit of energy. So 659 00:32:57,280 --> 00:33:00,440 Speaker 1: we call that the vacuum energy, the lowest possible energy 660 00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:03,280 Speaker 1: in the quantum field, which is not zero, And so 661 00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:05,800 Speaker 1: people wonder like, is that real, is it really happening 662 00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:07,840 Speaker 1: or is it just like part of our mathematics. Well, 663 00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:10,160 Speaker 1: the cool thing about the Casimir effect is that when 664 00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:13,240 Speaker 1: you bring these two plates really close together, it cancels 665 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:16,320 Speaker 1: out some parts of those wiggles between these two sheets. 666 00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:20,400 Speaker 1: Only certain kinds of wiggles can survive, so it suppresses 667 00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:23,040 Speaker 1: some kinds of wiggles and allows others. And so because 668 00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:25,880 Speaker 1: it's suppressing some kinds of wiggles, it like lowers the 669 00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:29,640 Speaker 1: energy between these two sheets, which creates an energy differential, 670 00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:32,840 Speaker 1: which is what creates a force. So it squeezes these 671 00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:35,360 Speaker 1: two plates a little bit closer together because that's a 672 00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:39,320 Speaker 1: lower energy state. So the Casimir effect is like deleting 673 00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:43,360 Speaker 1: some vibrational modes of the quantum vacuum between these two 674 00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:45,680 Speaker 1: plates in a way that ends up pushing them together 675 00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:47,560 Speaker 1: a little bit. Right. It's sort of like you create 676 00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:51,720 Speaker 1: a space that is so small that most particles can 677 00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:55,120 Speaker 1: even fit in them, and so the universe can't create 678 00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:58,520 Speaker 1: those particles in that space, and so therefore it like 679 00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:01,680 Speaker 1: it creates almost like a void in space, right where 680 00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:04,760 Speaker 1: like nothing can happen there, So there's sort of like 681 00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:07,640 Speaker 1: an emptiness and the rest of the universe is biased 682 00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:10,960 Speaker 1: towards having a little bit of energy. Then that vacuum 683 00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:14,560 Speaker 1: somehow creates like a it sucks stuff in. Basically, it's 684 00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:17,960 Speaker 1: really fascinating because it lowers the energy of space there 685 00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:21,320 Speaker 1: below the vacuum energy. Right, typically we think the vacuum 686 00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:24,280 Speaker 1: energy is the lowest, but if you create this special configuration, 687 00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:27,600 Speaker 1: you can bring the energy of space below the vacuum energy, 688 00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:30,480 Speaker 1: as you say, prevents those fields from existing in certain modes, 689 00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:33,520 Speaker 1: and so it lowers the overall energy. You can either 690 00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:35,600 Speaker 1: think about this in terms of fields, if you like 691 00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:37,839 Speaker 1: thinking about space is filled with fields, or you can 692 00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:41,239 Speaker 1: think about in terms of virtual particles, which is really equivalent, 693 00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:43,440 Speaker 1: if you like thinking about space is filled with all 694 00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:46,440 Speaker 1: these virtual particles constantly popping in and out of existence. 695 00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:50,080 Speaker 1: Between these two plates, some kinds of virtual particles are 696 00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:53,720 Speaker 1: not allowed, and so the energy density is lower between 697 00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:56,400 Speaker 1: the plates. I see, so you're saying you're not creating 698 00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:59,080 Speaker 1: a spot of negative energy, You're just creating a spot 699 00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:02,040 Speaker 1: of lower energy. Then, like the normal amount of energy 700 00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:04,400 Speaker 1: that the universe has sort of like sound, right, Like 701 00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:06,960 Speaker 1: you can't have negative sound, but you can make a 702 00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:10,480 Speaker 1: room that's lower sound than like the average din of 703 00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:13,560 Speaker 1: the your space of your talent. Yeah, that's exactly right, 704 00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:16,759 Speaker 1: and some really important nuances there. As you say, it's 705 00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:20,960 Speaker 1: not really negative. Energy is just lower than the vacuum. Now, 706 00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:23,560 Speaker 1: if you define the vacuum to be zero, then it's 707 00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:27,440 Speaker 1: negative energy density, I suppose. But that's a little bit arbitrary, 708 00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:29,919 Speaker 1: just sort of like where you set your zero. Really 709 00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:33,319 Speaker 1: it's lower energy than the rest of space around it. 710 00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:35,800 Speaker 1: It's as an interesting puzzle there because all the physical 711 00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:39,240 Speaker 1: phenomena we observe this actual force from the Casimir effect. 712 00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:41,879 Speaker 1: This just relates to the energy difference, like the fact 713 00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:44,280 Speaker 1: that there's lower energy between the plates is what gets 714 00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:46,680 Speaker 1: the force. But if you try to do the calculations 715 00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:48,799 Speaker 1: and ask like, well how much energy is there in 716 00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:52,160 Speaker 1: the vacuum, you actually run into weird infinities like try 717 00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:54,719 Speaker 1: to calculate you say, well, there's an infinite number of 718 00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:57,839 Speaker 1: different possible modes in space, and so in principle there 719 00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:00,360 Speaker 1: should be infinite energy there, which gets really eared and 720 00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:03,920 Speaker 1: still nobody understands. So we see the Cassomir effect. We 721 00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:06,919 Speaker 1: know there's a lower energy density between the plates even 722 00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:09,120 Speaker 1: in the Casimir effect. We don't really understand what the 723 00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:12,319 Speaker 1: absolute energy is even in like normal empty space. We 724 00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:14,600 Speaker 1: just know that it's lower between the plates and the 725 00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:17,640 Speaker 1: Cassimir effect. All right, So we have this Casimir effect 726 00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:19,879 Speaker 1: that might be able to give us negative energy, which 727 00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:22,680 Speaker 1: might let us make a warp should you train? That's 728 00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:24,719 Speaker 1: how I think scientists you call. So let's get into 729 00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:27,480 Speaker 1: whether or not someone has actually made this Casimir effect 730 00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:30,160 Speaker 1: work and whether it can be applied to a warp drive. 731 00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:45,600 Speaker 1: But first, let's take another quick break. All right, we 732 00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:50,920 Speaker 1: are warping our way to examining news headlines, and particularly 733 00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:53,759 Speaker 1: a very specific headline recently that's that NASA might have 734 00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:58,040 Speaker 1: accidentally built the warp drive. And the study that created 735 00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:01,520 Speaker 1: this headline was actually looking at the Asimir effect, which 736 00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:05,000 Speaker 1: is a way to maybe create zero energy or negative 737 00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:08,319 Speaker 1: energy in the universe. Now, Daniel, this is a kind 738 00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:12,000 Speaker 1: of a theoretical effect, right, something scientists think it might 739 00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:15,320 Speaker 1: might happen if you run this experiment. Has anyone actually 740 00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:18,640 Speaker 1: done this and measured this negative energy? People have actually 741 00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:22,000 Speaker 1: measured the Cassimir effect, So Casimir predicted it in like 742 00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:26,600 Speaker 1: by doing a bunch of calculations, and it's a very 743 00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:28,880 Speaker 1: very small effect, so it took a long time and 744 00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:34,040 Speaker 1: some real virtuoso experiments. But in n Stephen Lamereaux at 745 00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:37,200 Speaker 1: Yale actually did this. He was able to measure the 746 00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:40,919 Speaker 1: force between two objects that really really close together and 747 00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:44,360 Speaker 1: found the forest was very close to what Casimir predicted, 748 00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:47,920 Speaker 1: and that's been verified since then. Yeah, there have been 749 00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:50,840 Speaker 1: other experiments that verified, and they've done it with various 750 00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:54,080 Speaker 1: different configurations. It's really hard to actually do it with 751 00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:56,520 Speaker 1: like two sheets that are like an animeters apart, so 752 00:37:56,600 --> 00:38:00,719 Speaker 1: instead they use like one sheet and a sphere for example. Experimentally, 753 00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:03,799 Speaker 1: it's just sort of easier to manipulate and at separations 754 00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:06,880 Speaker 1: of like ten nanometers, which is like a hundred times 755 00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:09,719 Speaker 1: the size of an atom, the Cassimir effect produces a 756 00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:12,920 Speaker 1: force about equivalent to like an atmosphere of pressure. So 757 00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:16,440 Speaker 1: you're saying we can create spots of negative or zero 758 00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:19,279 Speaker 1: energy in the universe, and does that mean then that 759 00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:22,560 Speaker 1: the space in that spot gets expanded like in an 760 00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:24,560 Speaker 1: award drive like it would do an a warp drive. 761 00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:28,200 Speaker 1: So we can create spots which have lower energy density 762 00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:31,719 Speaker 1: than normal empty space, right, and it does cause the 763 00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:35,040 Speaker 1: Casimir effect, and we've measured that and that's real. We 764 00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:38,839 Speaker 1: don't know if that actually means their negative energy density, right. 765 00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:41,160 Speaker 1: We don't know how to set the zero to try 766 00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:43,120 Speaker 1: to calculate the energy of all the space. You get 767 00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:45,440 Speaker 1: infinities which don't make sense, So we don't know how 768 00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:48,360 Speaker 1: to do those calculations. So an open question about the 769 00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:52,000 Speaker 1: Cassimir effect is what it means for gravity. Remember that 770 00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:55,959 Speaker 1: gravity is a classical theory. Einstein's theory of gravity doesn't 771 00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:58,160 Speaker 1: even know how to deal with particles, not to mention 772 00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:01,320 Speaker 1: like an infinite number of virtual particles. We don't actually 773 00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:03,799 Speaker 1: know how to calculate the impact of this kind of 774 00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:07,160 Speaker 1: arrangement on gravitational fields and on the shape of space. 775 00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:09,560 Speaker 1: We don't know the answer to your question of does 776 00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:12,920 Speaker 1: this expand the space between those two sheets? But I 777 00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:16,440 Speaker 1: guess in theory it is right because energy, in general 778 00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:20,160 Speaker 1: it compresses space. So you have something where a spot 779 00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:22,879 Speaker 1: where you have less energy than technically that space would 780 00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:25,759 Speaker 1: not compressed as much, which would be the same as 781 00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:30,160 Speaker 1: expanding space. It depends on whether the general relativistic concept 782 00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:34,000 Speaker 1: of energy density is the same as the quantum mechanical one. 783 00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:36,640 Speaker 1: Remember the quantum mechanical one. Here, we don't know if 784 00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:39,399 Speaker 1: this is negative or positive energy density, and we don't 785 00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:41,400 Speaker 1: know how to do those calculations because we don't have 786 00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:44,040 Speaker 1: a theory of quantum gravity. People have tried to do 787 00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:47,080 Speaker 1: those calculations and they get crazy predictions like oh, there's 788 00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:50,320 Speaker 1: infinite energy here, so you get singularities everywhere in the universe, 789 00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:52,719 Speaker 1: and so it's just sort of an open problem in 790 00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:56,920 Speaker 1: theoretical physics, sort of gravitational implications of the vacuum energy. 791 00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:00,200 Speaker 1: So you can create a spot of almost zero or 792 00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:03,239 Speaker 1: negative energy, but you don't know if it's expanding or 793 00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:05,560 Speaker 1: compressing space, but it is that if it is, and 794 00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:08,000 Speaker 1: you could use it to maybe make a warp drive maybe, 795 00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:09,840 Speaker 1: because we don't really even know if it counts as 796 00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:12,840 Speaker 1: negative energy density and a gravitational sense. Again, it's just 797 00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:16,480 Speaker 1: relatively lower energy than the rest of the vacuum. And 798 00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:19,120 Speaker 1: so in this paper, what they were doing was thinking 799 00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:21,560 Speaker 1: about the energy density from the Cassimir effect, and they 800 00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:23,720 Speaker 1: were doing a bunch of simulations. So in this paper 801 00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:26,200 Speaker 1: they didn't build anything right, They didn't like create a 802 00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:29,080 Speaker 1: lab and build something. They were just doing calculations on 803 00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:32,320 Speaker 1: the computer, thinking about what is the energy density between 804 00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:36,000 Speaker 1: objects that are really close together, thinking about the Cassimir effects. 805 00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:38,040 Speaker 1: That they were doing a bunch of calculations. So then 806 00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:40,360 Speaker 1: what did they find in their simulations and why do 807 00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:43,080 Speaker 1: people use that to make the headline that NASA created 808 00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:45,000 Speaker 1: a warp drive. So they were doing a bunch of 809 00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:47,319 Speaker 1: calculations and they saw a plot and I had these 810 00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:49,279 Speaker 1: funny shapes in it. And one person who's working on 811 00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:52,520 Speaker 1: the project is also really interested in warp drives and 812 00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:55,840 Speaker 1: remembers seeing a similar shape in a paper about warp drives, 813 00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:58,799 Speaker 1: and we said, oh, this figure here, this shape of 814 00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:02,360 Speaker 1: the energy density looks kind of like the shape you 815 00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:06,160 Speaker 1: would need for a warp drive. Well, maybe step us 816 00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:08,120 Speaker 1: through with more detail here. What is there's a plot 817 00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:11,279 Speaker 1: of just a plot of the energy density between two surfaces, 818 00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:13,880 Speaker 1: Like in the Casimer effect, you bring two surfaces very 819 00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:16,960 Speaker 1: close together and you get lower energy density between the 820 00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:20,840 Speaker 1: surfaces than around it. Again, that doesn't necessarily mean actually 821 00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:24,400 Speaker 1: negative energy density from a gr perspective, but had like 822 00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:26,960 Speaker 1: an interesting shape and it had sort of the same 823 00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:30,319 Speaker 1: shape as a figure from a warp drive paper. That said, 824 00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:33,759 Speaker 1: here's the negative energy density profile. You would need to 825 00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:36,200 Speaker 1: expand the space behind the warp bubble. So it just 826 00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:38,480 Speaker 1: sort of like, oh, we have a crescent in this plot. 827 00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:40,960 Speaker 1: We have a crescent in that plot. Maybe they're the 828 00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:43,719 Speaker 1: same thing, but they're not at all, right, It's just 829 00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:47,040 Speaker 1: sort of vaguely similar. And this is just a qualitative 830 00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:50,160 Speaker 1: comparison of two things that might not even be related. 831 00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:52,839 Speaker 1: It's just like saying, oh, the Casimir effect creates this 832 00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:55,680 Speaker 1: crescent shape negative energy density. I also have a cookie 833 00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:59,040 Speaker 1: of that shape, So maybe the Casimere effect makes cookies. Well, 834 00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:02,120 Speaker 1: who doesn't want to warp cookie? But what's a little 835 00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:04,440 Speaker 1: I feel like maybe it's a little bit more than that, right, 836 00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:07,680 Speaker 1: because you know what they saw in this simulation. It 837 00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:10,000 Speaker 1: seems like it is that if you bring these two 838 00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:12,799 Speaker 1: plates together and measure the Cassomer effect, you get a 839 00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:16,080 Speaker 1: dip in the energy between the two plates. Right, That's 840 00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:18,320 Speaker 1: probably what they saw, like a dip in the energy. 841 00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:20,600 Speaker 1: And if you plot the energy between the two plates, 842 00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:22,520 Speaker 1: you'll see a dip. And he's saying, well, to make 843 00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:26,080 Speaker 1: a warp train, you need to also kind of create 844 00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:28,799 Speaker 1: this dip in energy behind you. You certainly do, but 845 00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:33,160 Speaker 1: we don't know again if the Casomer affects relative decrease 846 00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:36,640 Speaker 1: in energy density would actually create the kind of expansion 847 00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:38,840 Speaker 1: of space we need for the work bubble, and the 848 00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:42,600 Speaker 1: work bubble needs to sort of general relativistic negative energy density, 849 00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:46,360 Speaker 1: which requires like particles of negative mass, for example, whereas 850 00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:49,880 Speaker 1: the Casimir effect creates a relative shift in the quantum 851 00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:53,320 Speaker 1: vacuum and we don't know the impact of that Gravitationally, 852 00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:55,960 Speaker 1: all this paper is doing is saying, oh, look, I 853 00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:59,279 Speaker 1: made a shape of relative decrease of energy density that's 854 00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:02,480 Speaker 1: similar to the actual negative energy density in a warp 855 00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:04,840 Speaker 1: bubble metric. Right, So then I guess what would be 856 00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:07,319 Speaker 1: the idea is that you somehow create a whole bunch 857 00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:10,600 Speaker 1: of these plates really close together behind you, and somehow 858 00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:14,000 Speaker 1: that decreases the density behind you and somehow that compressive space. 859 00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:15,840 Speaker 1: Is that kind of where they were going with this. 860 00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:17,680 Speaker 1: That's sort of where they were going with this. But 861 00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:19,560 Speaker 1: you know there's a lot of leaps there, right. First 862 00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:21,799 Speaker 1: of all, Number one, this is just a simulation. Haven't 863 00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:25,640 Speaker 1: built anything, haven't demonstrated that their calculations are correct. But 864 00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:28,960 Speaker 1: you said that Cassimer effect has been proven experimentally. Yeah, 865 00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:31,680 Speaker 1: the Casomer effect has been proven experimentally, but that doesn't 866 00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:34,960 Speaker 1: mean that everybody who's doing Casimir effect calculations is correct. 867 00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:37,520 Speaker 1: And this particular team has a bit of a spotty 868 00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:40,160 Speaker 1: history in publishing papers. This is the same team that 869 00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:42,680 Speaker 1: was working on the e M Drive, an attempt to 870 00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:46,239 Speaker 1: build a rocket that violates Newton's third law, you know, 871 00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:49,279 Speaker 1: propellant less rocket. So you know, you've got to take 872 00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:51,040 Speaker 1: everything they do with a bit of a grain of salt. 873 00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:54,160 Speaker 1: And they also haven't shown a really crucial step, which 874 00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:57,880 Speaker 1: is that the Casimir relative decrease in energy density actually 875 00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:01,600 Speaker 1: does provide the negative energy density you need for general 876 00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:04,799 Speaker 1: relativity to create this wark bubble. They just have not 877 00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:08,200 Speaker 1: shown that at all. So I passed this paper to 878 00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:11,120 Speaker 1: an expert in a friend of the podcast and Baroxter Scheney, 879 00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:13,960 Speaker 1: who's a professor of cosmology and gravitational physics, and his 880 00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:18,560 Speaker 1: review was, this paper is a pure nonsense. How this 881 00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:26,359 Speaker 1: paper passed pure review is completely beyond me harsh, I mean, 882 00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:30,840 Speaker 1: let's not mince words. It's a pure nonsense. That was 883 00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:34,080 Speaker 1: his evaluation. He was not very impressed with this paper. Well, 884 00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:36,120 Speaker 1: from a theoretical point of view. Yes, I feel like 885 00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:38,560 Speaker 1: from what I'm understanding here from you today is that, Yeah, 886 00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:42,279 Speaker 1: they skipped over the fact that we don't have confirmation 887 00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:46,319 Speaker 1: that lower energy leads to a expansion of space. But 888 00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:48,480 Speaker 1: everything seems to kind of point to that, right, that's 889 00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:50,279 Speaker 1: kind of how the universe works. More energy you have, 890 00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:53,680 Speaker 1: more space gets compressed, I suppose. But we don't know 891 00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:56,759 Speaker 1: how to do the calculations to predict the impact on 892 00:44:56,800 --> 00:45:00,520 Speaker 1: the curvature of space of lower quantum feel the energy. 893 00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:03,680 Speaker 1: Remember again that g R is a classical theory can't 894 00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:08,480 Speaker 1: handle quantum particles, not to mention infinite towers of virtual particles. 895 00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:11,800 Speaker 1: People have tried to do those calculations and gotten crazy 896 00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:14,600 Speaker 1: bonkers results, which suggests that what we need is a 897 00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:18,120 Speaker 1: new theory of quantum gravity that might let us do 898 00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:20,520 Speaker 1: this and it might work. Right. It might be that 899 00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:24,279 Speaker 1: the Casimir effect does decrease the local energy density in 900 00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:26,760 Speaker 1: such a way that a theory of quantum gravity would 901 00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:29,600 Speaker 1: predict the expansion of space in just the right way 902 00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:31,680 Speaker 1: to give you a warp bubble. But this paper doesn't 903 00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:33,799 Speaker 1: show that, right, It doesn't show that. But you know, 904 00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:37,000 Speaker 1: they're just presenting the results of their simulation and saying 905 00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:39,439 Speaker 1: there's maybe a link to war drive. Maybe the real 906 00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:41,640 Speaker 1: problem was that it got picked up by the media 907 00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:44,000 Speaker 1: and then the headline got over blown because if you 908 00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:46,120 Speaker 1: read the title of the paper, it's not like, hey, 909 00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:47,959 Speaker 1: we made a warp drive, it's how would here because 910 00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:51,680 Speaker 1: you sent to me worldline numerics applied to custom Casimir 911 00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:56,400 Speaker 1: geometry generates unanticipated intersection with al Kabir warp metric. Yes, absolutely, 912 00:45:56,440 --> 00:45:59,720 Speaker 1: the title their paper is much better than the title 913 00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:02,440 Speaker 1: of a Coffee or Die article that says that they 914 00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:06,920 Speaker 1: accidentally create warp bubble for interstellar travel. I completely agree. 915 00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:10,600 Speaker 1: And they have the word numerics here, so they are 916 00:46:10,719 --> 00:46:12,560 Speaker 1: saying that it is a simulation. Now, that's right. A 917 00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:16,200 Speaker 1: lot of the misunderstanding lies in the coverage of this paper. 918 00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:19,440 Speaker 1: This paper definitely doesn't show that NASA accidentally created a 919 00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:22,640 Speaker 1: warp bubble. It just shows that the Casimir effect in 920 00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:27,080 Speaker 1: certain configurations can generate decreases in local energy density to 921 00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:30,879 Speaker 1: have a similar shape qualitatively to what you would need 922 00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:33,520 Speaker 1: for a warp bubble. And again it's just qualitative. They 923 00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:36,400 Speaker 1: didn't even like analyze quantitatively to say like, is this 924 00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:38,239 Speaker 1: actually the shape they need? It just sort of like 925 00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:41,160 Speaker 1: looks the same on the page. Right, So then you 926 00:46:41,239 --> 00:46:45,880 Speaker 1: might say that NASA might have accidentally built the war drive. Well, also, 927 00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:49,279 Speaker 1: these guys aren't at NASA. Like nobody here works at NASA. 928 00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:51,000 Speaker 1: I mean most people who work in NASA to work 929 00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:53,520 Speaker 1: at NASA, right, They're not like working for NASA. This 930 00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:55,880 Speaker 1: is not a NASA funded study. This was a study 931 00:46:55,880 --> 00:46:58,960 Speaker 1: funded by DARPA, however, So that's where the headline made. 932 00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:02,239 Speaker 1: The mistake should have been the government might have accidentally 933 00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:04,600 Speaker 1: built a warp drive. Some people in a garage that 934 00:47:04,719 --> 00:47:08,640 Speaker 1: previously have made outrageous claims did a calculation that looks 935 00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:11,280 Speaker 1: to them on the screen similar to something they remember 936 00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:14,759 Speaker 1: being relevant to warp bubbles. Now you're being ours there. 937 00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:17,200 Speaker 1: I thought anyone could come up with a great idea. 938 00:47:18,200 --> 00:47:20,680 Speaker 1: Absolutely anybody can, are you say, anybody? If I work 939 00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:22,560 Speaker 1: at my garage, I can't come up with a good idea. 940 00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:25,400 Speaker 1: But though these people are at a university, right, some 941 00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:27,319 Speaker 1: of these folks are. Some of them are in the 942 00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:30,560 Speaker 1: engineering department at Texas and m which is near NASA. 943 00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:33,400 Speaker 1: Kind of right, If any two places in Texas are 944 00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:35,759 Speaker 1: adjacent to each other, then sure, maybe because they have 945 00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:39,560 Speaker 1: a warp drive ensuring that distance between spots in Texas. 946 00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:42,080 Speaker 1: Maybe they can't. And absolutely, you're right. Anybody could come 947 00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:43,520 Speaker 1: up with a great idea and it might be that 948 00:47:43,560 --> 00:47:46,120 Speaker 1: in somebody's garage one day a warp drive is built. 949 00:47:46,200 --> 00:47:49,160 Speaker 1: All right, Well, it sounds like the very date here 950 00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:55,319 Speaker 1: is that the science as it is is not super exaggerated, right, 951 00:47:55,360 --> 00:47:57,839 Speaker 1: because they are doing simulations and they are just saying 952 00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:00,719 Speaker 1: there is a qualitative connection there. But sounds like maybe 953 00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:04,560 Speaker 1: the headline that picked it up did overblow the implications 954 00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:07,480 Speaker 1: of it or the probability that it might be translated 955 00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:10,000 Speaker 1: into an actual warp drive. Yeah. I think that's a 956 00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:12,239 Speaker 1: generous reading of it. Yeah, we already know your harsh 957 00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:17,560 Speaker 1: reading of it and your friends. Well, let's hope that 958 00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:20,440 Speaker 1: somebody builds a warp train one day, and you know, 959 00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:22,919 Speaker 1: we have like a new character on Thomas the train, 960 00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:25,440 Speaker 1: we have like the warp engine. I think the conclusion 961 00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:27,400 Speaker 1: here is that maybe these websites that picked it up 962 00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:32,520 Speaker 1: warp reality a little bit. Yeah, and not accidentally, I imagine. 963 00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:34,960 Speaker 1: So be careful where you get your science news, but 964 00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:38,000 Speaker 1: feel free to send us any headline you see that 965 00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:40,440 Speaker 1: it makes you wonder or it gets you excited, We're 966 00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:42,359 Speaker 1: happy to digest it for you and give you a 967 00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:45,600 Speaker 1: sense for whether or not it's the next big breakthrough. 968 00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:47,600 Speaker 1: That's right, and we need tips on how to use 969 00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:50,759 Speaker 1: word to make their paper or a tax. You can 970 00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:54,040 Speaker 1: also email Daniel that's right. Send us your questions about 971 00:48:54,040 --> 00:48:57,200 Speaker 1: warp drives, about space physics, and about a tech two 972 00:48:57,280 --> 00:49:00,640 Speaker 1: questions at Daniel and Jorhea dot com. Have you enjoyed that? 973 00:49:00,719 --> 00:49:11,200 Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, see you next time. Thanks for listening, 974 00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:14,000 Speaker 1: and remember that Daniel and Jorge Explain the Universe is 975 00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:17,440 Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcast for 976 00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:21,319 Speaker 1: my heart Radio, visit the i Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 977 00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:23,760 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.