1 00:00:46,480 --> 00:00:51,921 Speaker 1: School of Humans. Helen Got Murder Line actively investigates cold 2 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:55,361 Speaker 1: case murders in an effort to raise public awareness invite 3 00:00:55,401 --> 00:00:58,761 Speaker 1: witnesses to come forward and present evidence that could potentially 4 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:02,961 Speaker 1: be further investigated by law enforcement. While we value insights 5 00:01:03,001 --> 00:01:06,160 Speaker 1: from family and community members, their statements should not be 6 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:09,961 Speaker 1: considered evidence and point to the challenges of verifying facts 7 00:01:10,041 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 1: inherent in cold cases. We remind listeners that everyone has 8 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 1: presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. 9 00:01:17,961 --> 00:01:20,840 Speaker 1: Nothing in the podcast is intended to state or imply 10 00:01:21,041 --> 00:01:23,601 Speaker 1: that anyone who has not been convicted of a crime 11 00:01:24,161 --> 00:01:27,121 Speaker 1: is guilty of any wrongdoing. Thanks for listening. 12 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:33,440 Speaker 2: On June fourteenth, two thousand, there was a huge storm 13 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:36,721 Speaker 2: brewing in northeast Arkansas. It had been raining heavily all 14 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 2: day and according to local weather data, tornadoes had hit. 15 00:01:41,161 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 2: Over one hundred trees were downed, power line were down, 16 00:01:44,601 --> 00:01:48,721 Speaker 2: and homes were destroyed. Twenty year old Amanda Tussing, who 17 00:01:48,721 --> 00:01:51,881 Speaker 2: went by Mandy, was hanging out with her fiance, Matt Irvin, 18 00:01:52,041 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 2: at his apartment in Jonesboro. Amanda lived forty miles away 19 00:01:56,121 --> 00:01:59,561 Speaker 2: in Dell, Arkansas, which is in Mississippi County. She lived 20 00:01:59,561 --> 00:02:02,401 Speaker 2: with her father, Ed, her mother Susan, and her twin 21 00:02:02,481 --> 00:02:05,601 Speaker 2: brother Andy. She also had an older brother who worked 22 00:02:05,641 --> 00:02:08,641 Speaker 2: out of state. Matt did not want her to go 23 00:02:08,721 --> 00:02:11,241 Speaker 2: home that night. It was about a forty five minute 24 00:02:11,321 --> 00:02:13,641 Speaker 2: drive on a good day and the weather was bad, 25 00:02:14,081 --> 00:02:17,161 Speaker 2: but Amanda wanted to get home, so she left Jonesboro 26 00:02:17,321 --> 00:02:21,361 Speaker 2: at around eleven thirty PM, so even if she drove 27 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 2: very slowly, she should have gotten home around twelve thirty 28 00:02:25,361 --> 00:02:28,881 Speaker 2: am at the latest. Amanda told Matt she would call 29 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:31,121 Speaker 2: him from her parents' landline as soon as she got home. 30 00:02:31,881 --> 00:02:34,041 Speaker 2: She did have a cell phone by the way, but 31 00:02:34,481 --> 00:02:37,441 Speaker 2: her family said she never kept it charged and it 32 00:02:37,481 --> 00:02:41,921 Speaker 2: was always dying. Matt never got that call by one 33 00:02:42,041 --> 00:02:46,361 Speaker 2: thirty am. He was concerned, and Matt called Amanda's mother, 34 00:02:46,641 --> 00:02:48,641 Speaker 2: Susan tussing and woke her up. 35 00:02:50,721 --> 00:02:52,801 Speaker 3: Susan told Matt to hang on a second. 36 00:02:52,841 --> 00:02:54,721 Speaker 2: She said she would check to see if Amanda was 37 00:02:54,761 --> 00:02:58,281 Speaker 2: in bed, but when she went into Amanda's bedroom, she 38 00:02:58,481 --> 00:03:03,121 Speaker 2: saw that Amanda was not home. This was totally unlike Amanda. 39 00:03:03,601 --> 00:03:06,281 Speaker 2: Her family knew something must have happened on that road, 40 00:03:07,001 --> 00:03:09,601 Speaker 2: so her dad, Ed and her brother Andy got in 41 00:03:09,681 --> 00:03:13,801 Speaker 2: the car together and drove toward Dell. Meanwhile, Matt left 42 00:03:13,841 --> 00:03:17,081 Speaker 2: his house in Jonesboro and started driving down Highway eighteen 43 00:03:17,161 --> 00:03:21,001 Speaker 2: in the opposite direction. Their plan was they would meet 44 00:03:21,001 --> 00:03:24,520 Speaker 2: in the middle and hopefully see Amanda. Somewhere along the way, 45 00:03:25,601 --> 00:03:29,401 Speaker 2: Matt saw Amanda's nineteen ninety two Pontiac grand am parked 46 00:03:29,441 --> 00:03:32,001 Speaker 2: under a street light. It was on the shoulder of 47 00:03:32,081 --> 00:03:35,841 Speaker 2: Arkansas Highway eighteen, about a mile west of the small 48 00:03:35,881 --> 00:03:39,041 Speaker 2: town of Monette. Amanda's car was on the side of 49 00:03:39,041 --> 00:03:39,441 Speaker 2: the road. 50 00:03:40,081 --> 00:03:40,801 Speaker 3: It looked like. 51 00:03:41,081 --> 00:03:44,081 Speaker 2: It had been parked there intentionally, in other words, not 52 00:03:44,161 --> 00:03:47,841 Speaker 2: like she randomly swerved over. Matt got out of his car, 53 00:03:48,281 --> 00:03:54,241 Speaker 2: stepped out into the darkness, walked over and looked inside. 54 00:03:54,361 --> 00:03:57,561 Speaker 2: I'm Catherine Townsend. Over the past five years of making 55 00:03:57,601 --> 00:04:00,801 Speaker 2: my true crime podcast, Helen Gone, I have learned that 56 00:04:00,841 --> 00:04:03,441 Speaker 2: there is no such thing as a small town where 57 00:04:03,521 --> 00:04:07,481 Speaker 2: murder never happens. I have received hundreds of messages from 58 00:04:07,481 --> 00:04:10,761 Speaker 2: people all around the country asking for help with an 59 00:04:10,841 --> 00:04:14,601 Speaker 2: unsolved murder that's affected them, their families, and their communities. 60 00:04:15,401 --> 00:04:16,241 Speaker 3: If you have a. 61 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:18,401 Speaker 2: Case you'd like me and my team to look into, 62 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 2: you can reach out to us at our Helen Gone 63 00:04:20,521 --> 00:04:23,960 Speaker 2: murder line at six seven eight seven four four six 64 00:04:24,121 --> 00:04:28,481 Speaker 2: one four five at six seven eight seven four four six' 65 00:04:28,601 --> 00:04:32,001 Speaker 2: one four five this Is Helen gone murder. 66 00:04:32,041 --> 00:05:22,601 Speaker 4: Line matt called the. 67 00:05:22,641 --> 00:05:27,001 Speaker 2: Police they met him And amanda's father out On highway 68 00:05:27,081 --> 00:05:31,121 Speaker 2: eighteen by the. Car law enforcement showed up shortly after 69 00:05:31,161 --> 00:05:35,481 Speaker 2: two thirty. Am at, first police were thinking maybe her 70 00:05:35,481 --> 00:05:38,401 Speaker 2: car broke. Down the keys were still in the. Ignition 71 00:05:38,921 --> 00:05:42,001 Speaker 2: when they started it, up the car ran. Perfectly there 72 00:05:42,041 --> 00:05:45,841 Speaker 2: was also gas in the. Tank they noticed some other things. 73 00:05:45,881 --> 00:05:48,801 Speaker 2: Too there was a coke can in the drinkholder that 74 00:05:48,921 --> 00:05:51,520 Speaker 2: was half to three quarters full and it was still 75 00:05:51,601 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 2: chilled with condensation on the, side. 76 00:05:54,441 --> 00:05:56,361 Speaker 3: Which police believed. 77 00:05:56,361 --> 00:05:59,161 Speaker 2: Indicated to them that someone had taken a drink out 78 00:05:59,201 --> 00:06:03,201 Speaker 2: of that can pretty. Recently they also noticed the radio 79 00:06:03,361 --> 00:06:06,280 Speaker 2: was turned To amanda's favorite station with the volume turned, 80 00:06:06,281 --> 00:06:09,880 Speaker 2: down and the windshield wipers had stopped. 81 00:06:09,601 --> 00:06:10,401 Speaker 3: Midwipe on the. 82 00:06:10,401 --> 00:06:13,601 Speaker 2: Windshield the interior of the car did not show any 83 00:06:13,641 --> 00:06:17,361 Speaker 2: signs of foul. Play amanda's stuff was, inside her cell 84 00:06:17,401 --> 00:06:20,401 Speaker 2: phone and her billfold were on the passenger. Seat her 85 00:06:20,441 --> 00:06:23,521 Speaker 2: cell phone was, dead but again her parents said that 86 00:06:23,521 --> 00:06:26,321 Speaker 2: that wasn't necessarily a red flag because it was very often. 87 00:06:26,441 --> 00:06:29,001 Speaker 2: Dead she had a habit of letting her phone run. 88 00:06:29,041 --> 00:06:31,801 Speaker 2: Down and, this by the, way was back way before. 89 00:06:31,801 --> 00:06:36,001 Speaker 2: Smartphones back in two, thousand cell phone reception was very 90 00:06:36,041 --> 00:06:39,041 Speaker 2: spotty in those. Areas in some of those areas it still. 91 00:06:39,121 --> 00:06:44,121 Speaker 2: IS i talked To amanda's, Cousin jonathan about the. Case 92 00:06:44,801 --> 00:06:48,961 Speaker 2: her cousin was born After amanda, disappeared But amanda's family 93 00:06:49,121 --> 00:06:51,441 Speaker 2: has never stopped trying to figure out what happened to. 94 00:06:51,481 --> 00:06:55,760 Speaker 5: Her the weird things about the case is that like 95 00:06:56,721 --> 00:07:01,281 Speaker 5: her car Wasn't it didn't look like somebody had like 96 00:07:01,361 --> 00:07:03,561 Speaker 5: pulled her over and dragged her out of the car 97 00:07:03,721 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 5: or anything like. That everything was like in, place but 98 00:07:06,441 --> 00:07:11,441 Speaker 5: she had left all her stuff. There so people like 99 00:07:11,521 --> 00:07:14,241 Speaker 5: to say, that, Like amanda would never have pulled over 100 00:07:14,401 --> 00:07:15,201 Speaker 5: for no. 101 00:07:15,441 --> 00:07:20,001 Speaker 2: Reason you, Know investigators and her family believed that she 102 00:07:20,161 --> 00:07:23,081 Speaker 2: may have pulled over to stop for some reason or 103 00:07:23,481 --> 00:07:27,921 Speaker 2: been pulled over by. Someone amanda's family and friends and 104 00:07:28,041 --> 00:07:30,881 Speaker 2: volunteers came out to, search but they saw no sign 105 00:07:30,881 --> 00:07:35,241 Speaker 2: Of amanda for. Days then three days, later On june, 106 00:07:35,281 --> 00:07:40,441 Speaker 2: eighteenth two, Thousand Father's, day a, Couple trent And Fonda, davis. 107 00:07:40,241 --> 00:07:41,801 Speaker 3: Were coming back home after a trip To. 108 00:07:41,881 --> 00:07:45,561 Speaker 2: Jonesboro they drove over the twin bridges On Arkansas highway 109 00:07:45,601 --> 00:07:48,721 Speaker 2: one thirty five that ran over a body of water 110 00:07:49,001 --> 00:07:52,401 Speaker 2: Called Big Bay. Ditch the couple saw what they thought 111 00:07:52,401 --> 00:07:56,601 Speaker 2: were some clothes floating in that. Water then they realized 112 00:07:56,681 --> 00:07:59,641 Speaker 2: that they were looking at a. Body it Was Amanda. 113 00:07:59,641 --> 00:08:10,641 Speaker 2: Toussing Amanda tussing's body had been. Found this was twelve 114 00:08:10,761 --> 00:08:14,001 Speaker 2: miles in the opposite direction of where she was. Driving 115 00:08:14,441 --> 00:08:17,041 Speaker 2: she was driving, east her body was found to the. 116 00:08:17,041 --> 00:08:21,001 Speaker 2: West an autopsy revealed That amanda had water in her nasal, 117 00:08:21,041 --> 00:08:25,801 Speaker 2: passages but not her. Lungs law enforcement have said publicly 118 00:08:25,921 --> 00:08:29,601 Speaker 2: that they Believe amanda was dead before her body was 119 00:08:29,601 --> 00:08:33,481 Speaker 2: thrown into the, water but they reportedly could not decide 120 00:08:33,521 --> 00:08:36,721 Speaker 2: on a definite cause of death because it could have 121 00:08:36,761 --> 00:08:39,440 Speaker 2: been a dry drowning where the victim dies of choking 122 00:08:39,481 --> 00:08:42,121 Speaker 2: on the water but water never actually gets into the. 123 00:08:42,201 --> 00:08:46,481 Speaker 2: Lungs AMANDA i had no visible injuries except a small 124 00:08:46,521 --> 00:08:48,721 Speaker 2: bruise on the back of her. Head there were no 125 00:08:48,881 --> 00:08:52,561 Speaker 2: obvious signs of sexual, assault but because she had been 126 00:08:52,601 --> 00:08:55,561 Speaker 2: in the water for, days it must have been very 127 00:08:55,601 --> 00:08:59,201 Speaker 2: hard to know for. Sure the police also had more bad. 128 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:03,361 Speaker 2: Luck the heavy torrential rains had washed away a lot 129 00:09:03,361 --> 00:09:10,281 Speaker 2: of potential. Clues Gary, etter the original detective on the, 130 00:09:10,321 --> 00:09:15,561 Speaker 2: case told Kait Regionate news quote the Medical examiner's office 131 00:09:15,641 --> 00:09:18,881 Speaker 2: checked and said that she had no physical injuries other 132 00:09:18,961 --> 00:09:20,721 Speaker 2: than being in the water and the impact of the. 133 00:09:20,721 --> 00:09:25,001 Speaker 2: ELEMENTS i think whoever did this probably did it. Before 134 00:09:25,641 --> 00:09:30,361 Speaker 2: that's What i'm, thinking due to no evidence end Quote Detective. 135 00:09:30,441 --> 00:09:33,001 Speaker 2: Etter by the, way in my, opinion from what he 136 00:09:33,121 --> 00:09:35,761 Speaker 2: said in, public it really does seem like he deeply 137 00:09:35,841 --> 00:09:40,441 Speaker 2: cared about this. Case last year in twenty twenty, three 138 00:09:41,081 --> 00:09:44,641 Speaker 2: The Craighead County Sheriff's office assigned a new detective Named 139 00:09:44,681 --> 00:09:48,001 Speaker 2: David bailey to this, case and he has said that 140 00:09:48,041 --> 00:09:52,481 Speaker 2: he's reviewing everything with a fresh. Eye so who Left 141 00:09:52,481 --> 00:09:56,761 Speaker 2: amanda there floating in that ditch while they were figuring this? 142 00:09:56,801 --> 00:09:59,921 Speaker 2: Out by the, way law enforcement did not say there's 143 00:10:00,001 --> 00:10:03,001 Speaker 2: no immediate danger to the, public which is what they 144 00:10:03,041 --> 00:10:06,601 Speaker 2: say a lot during these. Cases in, fact they said 145 00:10:06,681 --> 00:10:10,481 Speaker 2: kind of the opposite In Mississippi. County In Craigheak, county 146 00:10:10,921 --> 00:10:13,761 Speaker 2: they told women traveling alone to be careful and to 147 00:10:13,841 --> 00:10:18,681 Speaker 2: take extra. Precautions Mississippi County Sheriff Leroy meadows told a 148 00:10:18,721 --> 00:10:22,161 Speaker 2: local paper, QUOTE i would urge people traveling alone to be. 149 00:10:22,201 --> 00:10:24,881 Speaker 2: Careful it would be wise to make sure you know 150 00:10:24,961 --> 00:10:28,001 Speaker 2: who is trying to stop, you or drive to a 151 00:10:28,081 --> 00:10:29,281 Speaker 2: lighted area before. 152 00:10:29,321 --> 00:10:32,601 Speaker 3: Stopping end. Quote this is very good. 153 00:10:32,681 --> 00:10:36,481 Speaker 2: ADVICE i just want to point out That amanda did 154 00:10:36,561 --> 00:10:40,361 Speaker 2: stop under a street, light and her parents said she 155 00:10:40,441 --> 00:10:42,921 Speaker 2: was very safety conscious and they had told her they 156 00:10:42,961 --> 00:10:45,481 Speaker 2: had drilled it into she should only park in well 157 00:10:45,521 --> 00:10:49,161 Speaker 2: lit areas late at. Night so even if she had 158 00:10:49,201 --> 00:10:51,281 Speaker 2: followed that, Advice i'm not sure that it would have helped. 159 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:57,001 Speaker 2: Her amanda's car had some partial fingerprints, inside but according to, 160 00:10:57,001 --> 00:11:01,881 Speaker 2: police nothing. Usable according to law, enforcement her car did 161 00:11:01,921 --> 00:11:05,001 Speaker 2: not look like it had been wiped. Clean this led 162 00:11:05,041 --> 00:11:09,121 Speaker 2: investigators to believe that the perpetrator probably did not get 163 00:11:09,121 --> 00:11:14,161 Speaker 2: inside the. Car Detective etter said something else in that 164 00:11:14,241 --> 00:11:17,521 Speaker 2: interview with the news. Channel he told, them, quote the 165 00:11:17,561 --> 00:11:19,681 Speaker 2: first thing that comes to your, mind And i'm not 166 00:11:19,721 --> 00:11:22,921 Speaker 2: saying it was a law enforcement, officer first thing that 167 00:11:22,961 --> 00:11:25,441 Speaker 2: comes to your mind is that a law enforcement officer 168 00:11:25,721 --> 00:11:27,241 Speaker 2: would know how to conceal the. 169 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:28,601 Speaker 3: Evidence end. 170 00:11:28,681 --> 00:11:36,680 Speaker 2: Quote amanda's family laid her to, rest and the funeral 171 00:11:36,681 --> 00:11:41,121 Speaker 2: procession was three miles. Long everyone loved this young woman 172 00:11:41,161 --> 00:11:45,201 Speaker 2: who had dreams of being a, veterinarian and her father 173 00:11:45,321 --> 00:11:48,881 Speaker 2: Told channel Eight news that Because amanda loved the song 174 00:11:49,001 --> 00:11:52,321 Speaker 2: tie yellow ribbon around the Old oak, tree the town 175 00:11:52,521 --> 00:11:55,321 Speaker 2: actually ran out of yellow ribbons because there were so 176 00:11:55,481 --> 00:11:57,641 Speaker 2: many of them that had been tied to trees in her. 177 00:11:57,641 --> 00:12:02,721 Speaker 2: Honor this murder brought the town together but also terrified 178 00:12:02,801 --> 00:12:06,201 Speaker 2: locals all at the same. Time police did take a 179 00:12:06,241 --> 00:12:09,841 Speaker 2: close look At, Matt amanda's, fiancee which is completely. Normal 180 00:12:10,601 --> 00:12:14,481 Speaker 2: according To amanda's, family they got along very. Well they 181 00:12:14,521 --> 00:12:17,361 Speaker 2: had occasional minor arguments about things like where he was 182 00:12:17,401 --> 00:12:20,761 Speaker 2: going to go to, school but they apparently had a very, 183 00:12:20,801 --> 00:12:24,601 Speaker 2: good loving relationship and were very. Happy they were supposed 184 00:12:24,601 --> 00:12:25,440 Speaker 2: to get married. 185 00:12:25,201 --> 00:12:26,721 Speaker 3: The next year In. 186 00:12:26,841 --> 00:12:32,081 Speaker 2: June amanda's cousin said That matt did not appear to 187 00:12:32,081 --> 00:12:33,161 Speaker 2: be a person of interest for. 188 00:12:33,241 --> 00:12:38,921 Speaker 5: LONG i know that at the, time they obviously first, 189 00:12:39,121 --> 00:12:43,481 Speaker 5: suspect you, know is always going to be the, spouse 190 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:47,081 Speaker 5: and so they questioned him and he was Really i'm 191 00:12:47,081 --> 00:12:51,481 Speaker 5: pretty sure he was very, cooperative and THEN i think 192 00:12:51,561 --> 00:12:52,241 Speaker 5: they ruled him. 193 00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:56,881 Speaker 2: Out, Also matt was the person who Reported amanda. Missing 194 00:12:57,441 --> 00:13:00,160 Speaker 2: matt told investigators he And amanda had dinner At Dixie 195 00:13:00,201 --> 00:13:03,201 Speaker 2: cafe that, night the night she went, missing and later 196 00:13:03,241 --> 00:13:05,481 Speaker 2: stopped at a grocery store before going back to his. 197 00:13:05,521 --> 00:13:09,201 Speaker 2: Apartment one Of amanda's school teachers was able to confirm 198 00:13:09,321 --> 00:13:11,881 Speaker 2: that they had seen the couple at The Dixie cafe that, 199 00:13:12,001 --> 00:13:17,961 Speaker 2: night so police were able to confirm her. Activities then 200 00:13:18,241 --> 00:13:20,881 Speaker 2: they went back To matt's. Apartment it was getting late 201 00:13:20,921 --> 00:13:23,001 Speaker 2: and the weather was, bad And matt did not Want 202 00:13:23,041 --> 00:13:26,601 Speaker 2: amanda to get on that. Road amanda still lived at 203 00:13:26,601 --> 00:13:29,161 Speaker 2: home with her parents and she had a, Curfew so 204 00:13:29,681 --> 00:13:33,281 Speaker 2: If amanda normally called her parents before heading, home why 205 00:13:33,321 --> 00:13:36,001 Speaker 2: did she head out so late that. Night could she 206 00:13:36,041 --> 00:13:40,241 Speaker 2: And matt have been. Arguing they Grilled matt. Hard they 207 00:13:40,321 --> 00:13:43,241 Speaker 2: questioned him several, times but police said he was totally 208 00:13:43,241 --> 00:13:48,881 Speaker 2: cooperative that he had passed polygraphs three separate. Times police 209 00:13:48,921 --> 00:13:53,161 Speaker 2: also considered another possibility very early on That amanda could 210 00:13:53,201 --> 00:13:56,521 Speaker 2: have been pulled over by a member of law, Enforcement. 211 00:13:56,601 --> 00:14:00,041 Speaker 5: So they think it Was there's been a theory that 212 00:14:00,161 --> 00:14:03,441 Speaker 5: it was someone in law enforcement that pulled her over 213 00:14:03,841 --> 00:14:06,440 Speaker 5: and then got her out of the car and then 214 00:14:06,481 --> 00:14:10,041 Speaker 5: took her or people think that it might have been 215 00:14:10,081 --> 00:14:13,521 Speaker 5: someone impersonating law enforcement and got her. 216 00:14:13,521 --> 00:14:17,761 Speaker 2: Out detectives were Processing amanda's body in the clothes that 217 00:14:17,761 --> 00:14:20,601 Speaker 2: she was found in when her body was recovered from that. 218 00:14:20,681 --> 00:14:23,481 Speaker 2: Ditch she was still wearing the same jeans and white 219 00:14:23,561 --> 00:14:25,441 Speaker 2: GAP t shirt she had been wearing when she went. 220 00:14:25,441 --> 00:14:28,721 Speaker 2: Missing her driver's license was in the front pocket of her. 221 00:14:28,761 --> 00:14:32,161 Speaker 2: Jenes NOW i wondered at first if that had some 222 00:14:32,241 --> 00:14:36,361 Speaker 2: kind of. Significance could that be evidence That amanda got pulled? 223 00:14:36,401 --> 00:14:41,921 Speaker 2: Over but her mother said not. Necessarily she told police 224 00:14:42,001 --> 00:14:45,241 Speaker 2: That amanda normally kept her driver's license like that in 225 00:14:45,321 --> 00:14:48,561 Speaker 2: her front. Pocket apparently she never kept it in a 226 00:14:48,601 --> 00:14:52,401 Speaker 2: purse or a. Billfold amanda was wearing her diamond engagement 227 00:14:52,481 --> 00:14:55,081 Speaker 2: ring when she was, found so between that and the 228 00:14:55,121 --> 00:14:57,481 Speaker 2: wallet that had been left on her, seat detectives took 229 00:14:57,521 --> 00:15:00,321 Speaker 2: this as even more. Evidence the motive was obviously not. 230 00:15:00,441 --> 00:15:05,681 Speaker 2: Robbery investigators Believed amanda was killed somewhere else and then 231 00:15:05,761 --> 00:15:09,041 Speaker 2: thrown into the, water but the question is where and, 232 00:15:09,121 --> 00:15:12,761 Speaker 2: why because the only injury they found was a bruise 233 00:15:12,801 --> 00:15:13,521 Speaker 2: on the back of her. 234 00:15:13,561 --> 00:15:15,921 Speaker 3: HEAD a few years After. 235 00:15:15,721 --> 00:15:20,001 Speaker 2: Amanda, disappeared law enforcement gave photos to THE tv Station 236 00:15:20,481 --> 00:15:26,241 Speaker 2: Regionate news and they are. Haunting you could see one 237 00:15:26,241 --> 00:15:28,681 Speaker 2: of the clues that can of coke in the drink 238 00:15:28,681 --> 00:15:32,241 Speaker 2: holder that was partly. Empty it was chilled with condensation 239 00:15:32,521 --> 00:15:35,641 Speaker 2: on the night she. Disappeared now a lot of people 240 00:15:35,641 --> 00:15:38,721 Speaker 2: have wondered if the coke can was a clue that 241 00:15:38,841 --> 00:15:40,841 Speaker 2: maybe she had stopped somewhere. 242 00:15:40,441 --> 00:15:42,081 Speaker 3: On the road during her. 243 00:15:42,161 --> 00:15:45,481 Speaker 2: Drive it was late at, night and that is a 244 00:15:45,521 --> 00:15:48,201 Speaker 2: pretty remote strip of. Highway there are only a couple 245 00:15:48,201 --> 00:15:52,161 Speaker 2: of gas stations along. It police did apparently check surveillance 246 00:15:52,201 --> 00:15:55,681 Speaker 2: footage from one of these convenience stores and said they 247 00:15:55,681 --> 00:15:59,121 Speaker 2: did not See amanda on, it but that's not proof 248 00:15:59,161 --> 00:16:02,321 Speaker 2: that she wasn't. There and someone else also brought up 249 00:16:02,321 --> 00:16:04,921 Speaker 2: another interesting. POSSIBILITY i was reading a lot of online 250 00:16:04,961 --> 00:16:08,521 Speaker 2: comments and they mentioned the were vending machines at a 251 00:16:08,521 --> 00:16:11,321 Speaker 2: couple of these, Places so even if she didn't go, 252 00:16:11,441 --> 00:16:15,801 Speaker 2: in maybe she stopped at a vending. Machine, Now matt 253 00:16:15,841 --> 00:16:19,121 Speaker 2: apparently told investigators he wasn't sure if she had taken 254 00:16:19,121 --> 00:16:21,801 Speaker 2: the drink from his house or, Not so that's another 255 00:16:21,841 --> 00:16:25,041 Speaker 2: possibility she might have taken it from her fiance's home 256 00:16:25,561 --> 00:16:28,841 Speaker 2: because she was not in the car that. Long before 257 00:16:28,881 --> 00:16:33,441 Speaker 2: something stopped her on that dark stretch of. Road there 258 00:16:33,761 --> 00:16:36,841 Speaker 2: was a witness who reportedly said that he saw her 259 00:16:36,881 --> 00:16:40,361 Speaker 2: at a gas, station but police couldn't confirm, this and 260 00:16:40,401 --> 00:16:43,961 Speaker 2: again they reportedly pulled surveillance footage and didn't see her in. 261 00:16:44,001 --> 00:16:47,241 Speaker 2: IT i don't know times or, details because remember this 262 00:16:47,321 --> 00:16:49,801 Speaker 2: is still an open, investigation so we don't have access 263 00:16:49,801 --> 00:16:53,321 Speaker 2: to any of the case. Files in the photos that 264 00:16:53,361 --> 00:16:56,281 Speaker 2: were released to the, media you can see a basketball 265 00:16:56,321 --> 00:17:01,041 Speaker 2: on the. Foreboard amanda played sports in high. School she 266 00:17:01,081 --> 00:17:06,440 Speaker 2: was an accomplished. Athlete there's also A bridle magazine in the. 267 00:17:06,481 --> 00:17:10,200 Speaker 2: Car she was clearly excited about her upcoming wedding and 268 00:17:10,281 --> 00:17:15,041 Speaker 2: probably looking at. Dresses Both amanda's parents say they believe 269 00:17:15,161 --> 00:17:18,161 Speaker 2: she may have been stopped by, someone maybe someone impersonating 270 00:17:18,201 --> 00:17:21,361 Speaker 2: a police, officer or that she had some kind of car. 271 00:17:21,441 --> 00:17:27,160 Speaker 5: Trouble the law enforcement theory is a good, one but 272 00:17:27,201 --> 00:17:30,440 Speaker 5: then there's been other people who have said maybe it 273 00:17:30,521 --> 00:17:33,561 Speaker 5: was a serial killer that was just you, know passing 274 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:38,201 Speaker 5: through that came and did. It because just the evidence 275 00:17:39,360 --> 00:17:42,840 Speaker 5: at the, car there was basically no evidence to go off. 276 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:48,601 Speaker 2: Of over the, years law enforcement have debated and investigated 277 00:17:48,641 --> 00:17:52,400 Speaker 2: a lot of these. Theories like so many, cases this 278 00:17:52,441 --> 00:17:54,721 Speaker 2: one has been the subject of several rumors over the. 279 00:17:54,761 --> 00:17:57,920 Speaker 5: Years there's a ton of people in the, COMMUNITY i 280 00:17:57,961 --> 00:18:01,400 Speaker 5: mean a ton of people that want this case to be. 281 00:18:01,561 --> 00:18:03,441 Speaker 5: Solved and there's a ton of people who think that 282 00:18:03,601 --> 00:18:08,600 Speaker 5: it's like literally like we're right there and they're they're. 283 00:18:08,601 --> 00:18:12,241 Speaker 5: Close but that's just all. HEARSAY i, mean it doesn't mean. 284 00:18:12,281 --> 00:18:13,081 Speaker 1: Anything but. 285 00:18:14,801 --> 00:18:17,481 Speaker 5: There's people who say who swear up and down they 286 00:18:17,521 --> 00:18:20,161 Speaker 5: know who did. It they just don't have, evidence enough 287 00:18:20,201 --> 00:18:21,201 Speaker 5: evidence to book the. 288 00:18:21,241 --> 00:18:26,041 Speaker 2: Guy the strip of road Between jonesboro And dell is pretty, 289 00:18:26,041 --> 00:18:29,321 Speaker 2: remote especially back. Then it passes through a couple of 290 00:18:29,361 --> 00:18:32,241 Speaker 2: small towns Like manila And Black, oak and there are 291 00:18:32,241 --> 00:18:34,360 Speaker 2: only a couple of gas stations that would have been 292 00:18:34,401 --> 00:18:37,761 Speaker 2: opened during that. Time over the, years a lot of 293 00:18:37,801 --> 00:18:40,120 Speaker 2: people came forward with, tips but most of them led to. 294 00:18:40,161 --> 00:18:43,521 Speaker 2: Nothing in two thousand and, three the sheriff And Ana, 295 00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:47,241 Speaker 2: County jack McCann Of Craighead, county said that they had 296 00:18:47,241 --> 00:18:51,361 Speaker 2: gotten a major tip that someone had told them there 297 00:18:51,401 --> 00:18:52,161 Speaker 2: was some sort. 298 00:18:52,001 --> 00:18:53,041 Speaker 3: Of note In amanda's. 299 00:18:53,041 --> 00:18:55,761 Speaker 2: COFFIN i don't know if it was a confession or, 300 00:18:55,801 --> 00:18:59,201 Speaker 2: information but it was apparently something that could have helped 301 00:18:59,281 --> 00:19:04,601 Speaker 2: lead to the killer's. Identity amanda's body was. Exhumed there 302 00:19:04,721 --> 00:19:08,561 Speaker 2: was no note or anything else inside that casket besides her. 303 00:19:08,601 --> 00:19:10,641 Speaker 3: Remains to, me. 304 00:19:10,801 --> 00:19:13,281 Speaker 2: This really does show how police were willing to act 305 00:19:13,321 --> 00:19:16,360 Speaker 2: on any. Tip i'm sure that after going through the 306 00:19:16,361 --> 00:19:19,640 Speaker 2: trauma of unearthing their daughter's, body the fact that the 307 00:19:19,641 --> 00:19:23,521 Speaker 2: coffin had no evidence must have been another devastating blow 308 00:19:23,561 --> 00:19:27,921 Speaker 2: For amanda's. Parents around that same, time a psychic detective 309 00:19:28,001 --> 00:19:31,201 Speaker 2: rolled into town with a COURT tv show Called Haunting. 310 00:19:31,241 --> 00:19:34,081 Speaker 2: Evidence i'm sure many of you know HOW i feel. 311 00:19:33,881 --> 00:19:34,721 Speaker 3: About psychics on this. 312 00:19:34,761 --> 00:19:39,881 Speaker 2: Podcast apparently their paranormal investigation did not provide any credible. Leads, 313 00:19:40,441 --> 00:19:43,721 Speaker 2: then in two thousand and, seven an anonymous person told 314 00:19:43,801 --> 00:19:47,681 Speaker 2: The sheriff's department that they had heard people allegedly Discussing amanda's, 315 00:19:47,721 --> 00:19:52,201 Speaker 2: murder but nothing came to that. Either in so many 316 00:19:52,201 --> 00:19:54,801 Speaker 2: of these, cases we see this over and. Over people 317 00:19:54,881 --> 00:19:57,321 Speaker 2: over the years will claim either that they did it 318 00:19:57,481 --> 00:19:58,601 Speaker 2: or they know someone who did. 319 00:19:58,641 --> 00:20:00,881 Speaker 3: It they'll do it sometimes for their own. 320 00:20:00,921 --> 00:20:04,761 Speaker 2: Reasons sometimes if they're, incarcerated they may want to impress other, 321 00:20:04,761 --> 00:20:08,041 Speaker 2: inmates and the more publicity a case, has the more 322 00:20:08,121 --> 00:20:12,401 Speaker 2: rumors start, flying but police were willing to listen because 323 00:20:12,481 --> 00:20:14,441 Speaker 2: there was a real lack of physical evidence in this. 324 00:20:14,521 --> 00:20:18,681 Speaker 2: Case there were zero suspects and no clear. Motive there 325 00:20:18,761 --> 00:20:22,681 Speaker 2: was one single hair found On amanda's. Body they DID dna, 326 00:20:22,761 --> 00:20:25,441 Speaker 2: testing but it turned out that it Was amanda's own. 327 00:20:25,441 --> 00:20:31,281 Speaker 2: Hair The sheriff's department admitted that law enforcement was up 328 00:20:31,281 --> 00:20:33,681 Speaker 2: a creek and WHAT i take from that is that 329 00:20:33,721 --> 00:20:36,561 Speaker 2: they were just, stuck no forward movement on the. Case 330 00:20:37,401 --> 00:20:40,840 Speaker 2: amanda's father did an interview WITH Kit channel, eight and 331 00:20:40,921 --> 00:20:44,641 Speaker 2: it was. Heartbreaking he talked about the f That amanda 332 00:20:44,761 --> 00:20:48,161 Speaker 2: was found On Father's. Day the reporter asked him if 333 00:20:48,161 --> 00:20:52,921 Speaker 2: he was affected every Single Father's. Day he got tearful and, said, 334 00:20:53,521 --> 00:20:57,241 Speaker 2: yeah but it's no different from other. Days he's affected 335 00:20:57,281 --> 00:21:03,600 Speaker 2: every single day by his daughter's. Murder so police are 336 00:21:03,681 --> 00:21:08,281 Speaker 2: left with a few different. Possibilities Was amanda killed by someone, 337 00:21:08,361 --> 00:21:10,921 Speaker 2: random maybe someone who was just passing through the. Area 338 00:21:11,481 --> 00:21:15,120 Speaker 2: detectives don't think. So they think the location of the 339 00:21:15,161 --> 00:21:18,361 Speaker 2: body is a big. Clue they point out that it's 340 00:21:18,441 --> 00:21:21,961 Speaker 2: near an access point that they believe only someone local 341 00:21:22,041 --> 00:21:22,360 Speaker 2: would know. 342 00:21:22,441 --> 00:21:26,081 Speaker 4: About but what. 343 00:21:26,161 --> 00:21:27,440 Speaker 3: About a local serial? 344 00:21:27,561 --> 00:21:37,321 Speaker 2: Killer several people have suggested That amanda might have been 345 00:21:37,401 --> 00:21:41,281 Speaker 2: killed by someone impersonating a police. Officer, now there was 346 00:21:41,481 --> 00:21:44,761 Speaker 2: one very high profile case the real rapist who was 347 00:21:44,801 --> 00:21:47,521 Speaker 2: preying on women In arkansas in the late. Nineties the 348 00:21:47,561 --> 00:21:50,960 Speaker 2: papers gave him the name the Blue Light. Rapist his 349 00:21:51,041 --> 00:21:54,481 Speaker 2: real name Was Robert Todd. Birmingham he was convicted of 350 00:21:54,601 --> 00:21:57,360 Speaker 2: raping two women in Eastern arkansas in nineteen ninety. Seven 351 00:21:58,761 --> 00:22:01,120 Speaker 2: the reason he was given that nickname was because he 352 00:22:01,201 --> 00:22:04,360 Speaker 2: had blue lights on top of his. Car he pulled 353 00:22:04,401 --> 00:22:08,401 Speaker 2: women over and impersonated a police. Officer one Of robert's, 354 00:22:08,481 --> 00:22:11,001 Speaker 2: victims a seventeen year old whose first name Was, shannon 355 00:22:11,441 --> 00:22:14,601 Speaker 2: told detectives he pulled her over while she was traveling 356 00:22:14,641 --> 00:22:18,481 Speaker 2: alone on a state. Highway she said at first she 357 00:22:18,521 --> 00:22:21,281 Speaker 2: thought she was going to get a speeding. Ticket after 358 00:22:21,481 --> 00:22:23,401 Speaker 2: he signaled for her to pull over and she, Did 359 00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 2: robert came up to the window of her car carrying a. 360 00:22:26,881 --> 00:22:30,041 Speaker 2: Gun he told her to cover her face with a 361 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:33,160 Speaker 2: shirt and to get out of her, car then he 362 00:22:33,321 --> 00:22:37,241 Speaker 2: forced her into his. Vehicle once he Got shannon into his, 363 00:22:37,321 --> 00:22:40,041 Speaker 2: vehicle he claimed that his buddy was going to take 364 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:42,841 Speaker 2: her To Little rock to pick someone, up But, instead 365 00:22:43,241 --> 00:22:45,881 Speaker 2: he drove her to a remote location and raped. Her 366 00:22:47,041 --> 00:22:48,961 Speaker 2: he told her that if she would kiss him, back 367 00:22:49,001 --> 00:22:52,761 Speaker 2: he wouldn't hurt. Her after the, assault he forced her 368 00:22:52,801 --> 00:22:55,881 Speaker 2: to redress and took her to a. Field he made 369 00:22:55,881 --> 00:23:00,361 Speaker 2: her lie down and wait until he was. Gone robert 370 00:23:00,361 --> 00:23:03,161 Speaker 2: was convicted of those two, rapes but he was suspected 371 00:23:03,201 --> 00:23:08,600 Speaker 2: of committing. More there were other attacks women who were 372 00:23:08,641 --> 00:23:11,400 Speaker 2: pulled over in the same area with Blue mars lights 373 00:23:11,601 --> 00:23:15,161 Speaker 2: and then sexually, assaulted But robert was never convicted of those. 374 00:23:15,201 --> 00:23:20,641 Speaker 2: Attacks side. Note in twenty, seventeen lawmakers Passed Shannon's, law 375 00:23:21,241 --> 00:23:25,361 Speaker 2: name For. Shannon this law increased the penalty for anyone 376 00:23:25,441 --> 00:23:31,281 Speaker 2: caught illegally possessing blue emergency. Lights robert was sentenced to 377 00:23:31,321 --> 00:23:34,961 Speaker 2: life in. Prison he died in prison OF covid related 378 00:23:34,961 --> 00:23:40,441 Speaker 2: complications In may twenty. Twenty But robert was convicted in 379 00:23:40,521 --> 00:23:44,321 Speaker 2: nineteen ninety, seven which of, course was three years Before amanda's. 380 00:23:44,361 --> 00:23:47,921 Speaker 2: Death but there was still lingering questions about these other 381 00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:53,081 Speaker 2: alleged blue light. Assaults were these copycat rapes or could 382 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:56,201 Speaker 2: there have been another blue light rapist out there one 383 00:23:56,241 --> 00:24:02,680 Speaker 2: who wasn't. Caught there was another young woman eighteen year 384 00:24:02,721 --> 00:24:06,281 Speaker 2: Old Dana, stidham who went missing From Bella, Vista, arkansas 385 00:24:06,321 --> 00:24:09,441 Speaker 2: On july twenty, fifth nineteen eighty. Nine on that, Day 386 00:24:09,561 --> 00:24:13,241 Speaker 2: dana was on her way. Home she had gone out 387 00:24:13,281 --> 00:24:15,840 Speaker 2: to run some errands for her, dad who wasn't feeling. 388 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:19,041 Speaker 2: Well he asked her to pick some stuff up for, 389 00:24:19,121 --> 00:24:22,161 Speaker 2: him so she went To Philip's Food store In Bella. 390 00:24:22,241 --> 00:24:25,721 Speaker 2: Vista she bought Some alka seltzer and some dishwashing soap and. 391 00:24:25,761 --> 00:24:29,160 Speaker 2: Sugar this is all according to. Receipts she left at 392 00:24:29,161 --> 00:24:33,681 Speaker 2: three SEVENTEEN. Pm, now there was another grocery store closer 393 00:24:33,681 --> 00:24:36,681 Speaker 2: to her, house but later one of the detectives on 394 00:24:36,721 --> 00:24:39,681 Speaker 2: the case talked to reporters and said That dana avoided 395 00:24:39,681 --> 00:24:42,161 Speaker 2: that store because a guy whose parents owned the store 396 00:24:42,201 --> 00:24:44,921 Speaker 2: back then hung out there a. Lot, now apparently this 397 00:24:45,041 --> 00:24:48,281 Speaker 2: guy had a crush On, dana but the feelings were not. 398 00:24:48,361 --> 00:24:52,400 Speaker 2: Reciprocated the last time That dana was seen alive was 399 00:24:52,401 --> 00:24:55,041 Speaker 2: when she left that food store after running her errand 400 00:24:55,041 --> 00:24:58,041 Speaker 2: for her. Dad she used to work At phillip's food, 401 00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:00,241 Speaker 2: store so she knew a lot of people there and 402 00:25:00,281 --> 00:25:03,241 Speaker 2: they all remembered talking to. Her she talked to people 403 00:25:03,281 --> 00:25:05,401 Speaker 2: she knew in the store and in the parking. Lot 404 00:25:06,041 --> 00:25:09,120 Speaker 2: police said they also talked to another, witness someone who 405 00:25:09,201 --> 00:25:11,080 Speaker 2: was apparently doing some landscaping near the. 406 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:11,400 Speaker 3: Store. 407 00:25:12,241 --> 00:25:15,481 Speaker 2: Now this person apparently told police that they Saw dana, 408 00:25:15,561 --> 00:25:18,241 Speaker 2: lee but they weren't sure which way she turned when 409 00:25:18,281 --> 00:25:23,880 Speaker 2: she drove. Out after, That dana never came. Home On 410 00:25:24,001 --> 00:25:27,121 Speaker 2: july twenty, sixth at around six thirty, am a police 411 00:25:27,161 --> 00:25:30,961 Speaker 2: officer was driving southbound DOWN Us highway seventy one when 412 00:25:30,961 --> 00:25:35,041 Speaker 2: they Saw dana's nineteen eighty Four Dodge omni abandoned on 413 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:38,880 Speaker 2: the shoulder Near Wellington. Road the keys were still in the, 414 00:25:38,881 --> 00:25:41,721 Speaker 2: ignition the driver's side window was halfway, down and the 415 00:25:41,761 --> 00:25:46,160 Speaker 2: rear tire was slightly deflated but not totally. Flat, again 416 00:25:46,761 --> 00:25:49,801 Speaker 2: there was no obvious sign of anything being wrong with the, 417 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:53,600 Speaker 2: car and no sign of foul, play but this Time 418 00:25:54,001 --> 00:25:57,361 Speaker 2: dana's purse was missing and the driver's seat was way, 419 00:25:57,401 --> 00:26:00,001 Speaker 2: back as if a taller person had been the last one. 420 00:26:00,041 --> 00:26:04,201 Speaker 2: Driving dana had been doing laundry that, day and her 421 00:26:04,241 --> 00:26:06,961 Speaker 2: laundry was found scattered several feet away from the. Car 422 00:26:08,161 --> 00:26:10,880 Speaker 2: the search For dana went on for, months, then In 423 00:26:10,921 --> 00:26:14,281 Speaker 2: september of nineteen eighty nine a hundred Found dana's remains 424 00:26:14,321 --> 00:26:17,601 Speaker 2: in a creek bed near The Arkansas missouri. Border her 425 00:26:17,641 --> 00:26:21,361 Speaker 2: clothes were buried in a shallow grave. Nearby she had 426 00:26:21,361 --> 00:26:24,801 Speaker 2: a cut on her left shoulder. Blade it's been reported 427 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:27,080 Speaker 2: that detectives were not sure of the actual cause of, 428 00:26:27,121 --> 00:26:30,160 Speaker 2: death but they are withholding, details SO i can't be 429 00:26:30,201 --> 00:26:32,281 Speaker 2: sure about. That and obviously this is still an open. 430 00:26:32,321 --> 00:26:36,201 Speaker 2: Investigation but they have made some facts, public like the 431 00:26:36,241 --> 00:26:39,041 Speaker 2: fact that detectives had suspicions about that, guy the one 432 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:41,641 Speaker 2: who had a crush On, dana the one who attended 433 00:26:41,681 --> 00:26:44,801 Speaker 2: the same high school she. Did they questioned this, person 434 00:26:44,881 --> 00:26:47,761 Speaker 2: but in the, end The Benton County, Prosecutor Brad, butler 435 00:26:48,321 --> 00:26:51,201 Speaker 2: said he didn't believe he had enough physical or circumstantial 436 00:26:51,241 --> 00:26:54,721 Speaker 2: evidence to file any. Charges we're going to talk more 437 00:26:54,721 --> 00:26:57,761 Speaker 2: in depth About Dana stidham's case in a future. Episode 438 00:26:58,161 --> 00:27:00,521 Speaker 2: AND i just want to be. CLEAR i always hate 439 00:27:00,561 --> 00:27:03,400 Speaker 2: when people make really tenuous connections between cases that are 440 00:27:03,441 --> 00:27:07,281 Speaker 2: obviously not. CONNECTED i have no reason to believe right 441 00:27:07,321 --> 00:27:10,841 Speaker 2: now that these two cases are. Connected dana was found 442 00:27:10,881 --> 00:27:12,920 Speaker 2: in a, Grave amanda was found in a body of. 443 00:27:12,961 --> 00:27:16,801 Speaker 2: Water dana's clothes were buried, Nearby so at least from 444 00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:20,400 Speaker 2: what we know what's come out, publicly it does seem, 445 00:27:20,561 --> 00:27:22,641 Speaker 2: like at least on the, surface there could be more 446 00:27:22,641 --> 00:27:26,801 Speaker 2: evidence That dana's case may have been some type of 447 00:27:26,801 --> 00:27:31,600 Speaker 2: a sex. Crime amanda disappeared at, Night dana disappeared in 448 00:27:31,601 --> 00:27:34,041 Speaker 2: the middle of the. Day but there were also some. 449 00:27:34,041 --> 00:27:37,761 Speaker 2: Similarities both women were. Petiitue dana was five foot two 450 00:27:37,921 --> 00:27:41,361 Speaker 2: and one hundred, pounds with, short dark. Care the crimes 451 00:27:41,481 --> 00:27:45,521 Speaker 2: happened near each. Other women's cars were found abandoned on 452 00:27:45,521 --> 00:27:47,400 Speaker 2: the side of the road with the keys and the, 453 00:27:47,401 --> 00:27:51,281 Speaker 2: ignition and there were similar theories discussed in both, cases 454 00:27:51,521 --> 00:27:55,281 Speaker 2: including the possibility someone impersonating a police officer could have 455 00:27:55,321 --> 00:27:59,080 Speaker 2: pulled them. OVER i found something very interesting in the court. 456 00:27:59,121 --> 00:28:04,241 Speaker 2: Documents after the blue light rapist's, conviction the circuit court 457 00:28:04,361 --> 00:28:08,241 Speaker 2: allowed a second victim to testify in. Court they allowed 458 00:28:08,241 --> 00:28:11,561 Speaker 2: this so that they could establish the rapist pattern his 459 00:28:11,721 --> 00:28:15,281 Speaker 2: Mo so what's interesting here is that two Of robert's 460 00:28:15,361 --> 00:28:19,521 Speaker 2: victims had some. Similarities the reason this is interesting to 461 00:28:19,561 --> 00:28:22,961 Speaker 2: me is not Because robert Killed, amanda we know he, 462 00:28:23,001 --> 00:28:26,001 Speaker 2: didn't he was in jail at the, time but because 463 00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:28,481 Speaker 2: maybe the methods he used can give us some insight 464 00:28:28,521 --> 00:28:31,960 Speaker 2: into other. Predators robert would tell these women they were 465 00:28:32,001 --> 00:28:35,601 Speaker 2: being charged WITH, dwi but he said perhaps he could 466 00:28:35,641 --> 00:28:39,601 Speaker 2: work something out with. Them he also apparently would do body, 467 00:28:39,641 --> 00:28:42,361 Speaker 2: searches and then that was the excuse he used to 468 00:28:42,361 --> 00:28:44,801 Speaker 2: put his hands on these women across the Line. Physically 469 00:28:45,401 --> 00:28:47,921 Speaker 2: he did not get into the women's, cars he followed 470 00:28:47,921 --> 00:28:52,041 Speaker 2: them in his. Car, also both Of robert's victims had 471 00:28:52,081 --> 00:28:54,001 Speaker 2: families that were out of town at the time when 472 00:28:54,001 --> 00:28:57,161 Speaker 2: their attacks took. Place and this is something that piqued my. 473 00:28:57,201 --> 00:29:00,960 Speaker 2: Curiosity was this something he knew beforehand because he recognized these, 474 00:29:01,001 --> 00:29:04,521 Speaker 2: women or was this something he found out while questioning 475 00:29:04,561 --> 00:29:05,681 Speaker 2: them initially. 476 00:29:05,401 --> 00:29:05,921 Speaker 3: And used his. 477 00:29:06,001 --> 00:29:09,841 Speaker 2: Advantage so the killer could have been someone impersonating a police, 478 00:29:09,841 --> 00:29:13,601 Speaker 2: Officer but there is also another possibility the killer could 479 00:29:13,641 --> 00:29:16,481 Speaker 2: have been a real police, officer either one that was 480 00:29:16,521 --> 00:29:19,601 Speaker 2: on duty at the time or off duty in a patrol. 481 00:29:19,681 --> 00:29:25,081 Speaker 2: Car law enforcement definitely seemed to consider this. Possibility the 482 00:29:25,161 --> 00:29:27,881 Speaker 2: sheriff made the comment to news station eight that a 483 00:29:27,921 --> 00:29:31,321 Speaker 2: police officer would know how to hide. Evidence in, fact 484 00:29:31,521 --> 00:29:36,041 Speaker 2: detectives spoke to several police officers From Mississippi county And Craighead. 485 00:29:36,041 --> 00:29:39,761 Speaker 2: County they apparently ruled a lot of people out and 486 00:29:39,801 --> 00:29:41,881 Speaker 2: gave a lot of polygraph tests to members of law. 487 00:29:41,921 --> 00:29:45,481 Speaker 2: Enforcement one person and they focused on was reportedly a 488 00:29:45,521 --> 00:29:48,361 Speaker 2: police officer who lived in the nearby town of Black. 489 00:29:48,401 --> 00:29:51,201 Speaker 2: Oak that would have been one of the towns That 490 00:29:51,281 --> 00:29:54,801 Speaker 2: Amanda tussing would have gone through on her way. Home 491 00:29:55,921 --> 00:29:58,961 Speaker 2: true crime Author George, jared who we worked with on 492 00:29:59,001 --> 00:30:02,161 Speaker 2: The Rebecca gould, case discussed this theory in his Book 493 00:30:02,281 --> 00:30:06,481 Speaker 2: whispers and The, willows and in his book he said 494 00:30:06,881 --> 00:30:10,881 Speaker 2: that he discovered through his law enforcement sources that that officer's. 495 00:30:10,321 --> 00:30:11,241 Speaker 3: Name Was Johnny. 496 00:30:11,241 --> 00:30:15,561 Speaker 2: Williams apparently a lot of women were complaining back in 497 00:30:15,601 --> 00:30:18,841 Speaker 2: the day That johnny would follow them. Home he wrote 498 00:30:18,881 --> 00:30:21,841 Speaker 2: in the book that police Interviewed Johnny williams multiple. Times 499 00:30:22,441 --> 00:30:25,401 Speaker 2: amanda's cousin wasn't sure about the name when we brought it, 500 00:30:25,521 --> 00:30:29,321 Speaker 2: up but the family has said over the years they 501 00:30:29,361 --> 00:30:32,081 Speaker 2: have heard that there was someone in law enforcement who 502 00:30:32,241 --> 00:30:36,681 Speaker 2: police apparently, suspected couldn't get enough evidence on and hoped 503 00:30:36,681 --> 00:30:39,241 Speaker 2: would give a deathbed confession when he began to get. 504 00:30:39,241 --> 00:30:43,601 Speaker 2: Sick johnny got a terminal illness in two thousand and 505 00:30:43,641 --> 00:30:49,481 Speaker 2: nin he passed away the following. Year, Now Johnny williams 506 00:30:49,601 --> 00:30:53,281 Speaker 2: was never publicly named a, suspect never arrested or charged 507 00:30:53,361 --> 00:30:57,401 Speaker 2: in connection with anything Involving amanda's. Case we have no 508 00:30:57,481 --> 00:31:00,081 Speaker 2: idea if he had any information at, all but any 509 00:31:00,121 --> 00:31:02,321 Speaker 2: information he would have had went to the grave with 510 00:31:02,441 --> 00:31:12,641 Speaker 2: him in twenty. Ten so who Killed Amanda? Tussing there 511 00:31:12,681 --> 00:31:16,401 Speaker 2: are still a lot of possibilities to. Consider one is 512 00:31:16,441 --> 00:31:18,641 Speaker 2: That amanda did stop at a convenience store on her 513 00:31:18,681 --> 00:31:22,161 Speaker 2: way home and got that can of. Coke maybe someone 514 00:31:22,241 --> 00:31:24,361 Speaker 2: saw her there and followed her out of the. Store 515 00:31:25,121 --> 00:31:27,321 Speaker 2: now that person might have been a police. Officer or 516 00:31:27,841 --> 00:31:31,081 Speaker 2: it's also possible that the person who got her to 517 00:31:31,081 --> 00:31:34,001 Speaker 2: pull over wasn't a police officer at. All maybe it 518 00:31:34,081 --> 00:31:37,001 Speaker 2: was someone faking car. Trouble maybe they got her to 519 00:31:37,001 --> 00:31:42,041 Speaker 2: pull over another, way or maybe she pulled over. First 520 00:31:42,641 --> 00:31:46,201 Speaker 2: it was meaning really heavily that. Night maybe she was 521 00:31:46,201 --> 00:31:49,401 Speaker 2: sitting in her car until the rain passed and someone 522 00:31:49,441 --> 00:31:52,921 Speaker 2: saw her park. There in that, moment sitting inside that 523 00:31:53,041 --> 00:31:58,081 Speaker 2: dark car with zero, visibility she was very. Vulnerable whether 524 00:31:58,121 --> 00:32:01,521 Speaker 2: it was a law enforcement, officer someone impersonating a police, 525 00:32:01,521 --> 00:32:05,721 Speaker 2: officer or just a sick and twisted random. Person it 526 00:32:05,841 --> 00:32:08,641 Speaker 2: seems likely that it was someone who lived in the 527 00:32:08,681 --> 00:32:14,121 Speaker 2: area and they could be still out. There I'm Catherine. 528 00:32:14,161 --> 00:32:27,041 Speaker 2: Townsend this Is Helen Gone Murder. Line Helen Gone Murder 529 00:32:27,081 --> 00:32:29,121 Speaker 2: line is a production Of school Of humans And iHeart. 530 00:32:29,161 --> 00:32:32,721 Speaker 2: Podcasts it's written and narrated by Me Catherine townsend and 531 00:32:32,761 --> 00:32:37,441 Speaker 2: produced By Gabby. Watts music contributed By Ben Sale special 532 00:32:37,481 --> 00:32:41,281 Speaker 2: thanks To Amy tubbs for her research. Assistance Noah camera 533 00:32:41,521 --> 00:32:46,441 Speaker 2: mixed and scored this. Episode executive producers Are Virginia, Prescott Brandon, 534 00:32:46,441 --> 00:32:50,401 Speaker 2: barr And Elsie. 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