WEBVTT - Ron Howard: “Understand the entertainment value of an idea.” 0:00:02.960 --> 0:00:07.200 You're listening to Math and Magic, a production of iHeart Podcasts. 0:00:08.640 --> 0:00:12.720 Where is there alignment there your sensibilities and an audience's sensibilities. 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:14.880 I think if you want to be a filmmaker, it 0:00:14.920 --> 0:00:19.040 all starts with understanding what you love and what audiences love, 0:00:19.760 --> 0:00:27.120 and how you can connect these things, these truths. I 0:00:27.120 --> 0:00:27.920 am Bob Pittman. 0:00:28.040 --> 0:00:30.760 Welcome to this episode of Math and Magic, Stories from 0:00:30.800 --> 0:00:34.320 the Frontiers and Marketing. Today, we're going to explore storytelling 0:00:34.800 --> 0:00:37.120 and the business of movie and TV production with a 0:00:37.159 --> 0:00:40.320 focus on creativity and audience engagement, and we're going to 0:00:40.400 --> 0:00:43.120 learn from one of the greatest directors of our generation, 0:00:43.479 --> 0:00:46.400 Ron Howard. Ron was born in Oklahoma, grew up in 0:00:46.520 --> 0:00:50.360 LA was an amazingly successful child actor, starting with his 0:00:50.479 --> 0:00:53.960 character on the long running Andy Griffith's Show, but continued 0:00:53.960 --> 0:00:57.280 that momentum with his roles in American Graffiti and Happy Days. 0:00:57.920 --> 0:01:00.480 He then did what few actors do. He made the 0:01:00.560 --> 0:01:03.080 jump to director, and he did it at a super 0:01:03.120 --> 0:01:03.680 young age. 0:01:03.760 --> 0:01:05.640 With a body of work that has geen. 0:01:05.520 --> 0:01:08.960 Re versatility and huge box office success as well as 0:01:09.000 --> 0:01:13.119 critical acclaim. He's won Academy Awards, Emmy's Golden globes and more, 0:01:13.600 --> 0:01:15.800 and he's got a lot to tell us about connecting 0:01:15.880 --> 0:01:21.080 with audiences, effective storytelling, and collaboration the most important. He's 0:01:21.080 --> 0:01:23.200 one of the most thoughtful and nicest. 0:01:22.880 --> 0:01:26.120 Power players in Hollywood. Ron welcome, well, thank you. Thanks 0:01:26.120 --> 0:01:28.280 for that. Intro don't know if I can live up 0:01:28.280 --> 0:01:29.759 to all that, but we'll see what we can. 0:01:29.640 --> 0:01:32.880 Do before we dig into the meaty stuff. I want 0:01:32.880 --> 0:01:35.320 to do you in sixty seconds, Ready to go? 0:01:35.480 --> 0:01:39.080 All right? Try me? Cats are dogs? Oh you see, 0:01:39.120 --> 0:01:41.240 I'm not such a black and white guy. If I 0:01:41.319 --> 0:01:43.640 really had to choose, I'll go with dog. But I've 0:01:43.640 --> 0:01:45.039 got a lot of affections for cats. 0:01:45.080 --> 0:01:47.280 I won't tell any of the cats you decided against 0:01:47.360 --> 0:01:50.360 them Early Riser Er, night Out, early. 0:01:50.240 --> 0:01:53.680 Riser, City or country. I love people, and there's more 0:01:53.680 --> 0:01:56.120 of them there in the city, East Coast or West Coast. 0:01:56.360 --> 0:01:59.320 I prefer the East Coast for you. An introvert or extrovert, 0:01:59.560 --> 0:02:04.520 introvert happy to talk to people, just a little socially reluctant. 0:02:04.800 --> 0:02:08.960 Fiction or documentary. I love the docs. America graffiti or 0:02:09.000 --> 0:02:14.160 the studio. Well, American graffiti holds a very special place 0:02:14.200 --> 0:02:18.120 in my heart. Directing a comedy or drama. Drama. I 0:02:18.200 --> 0:02:21.320 just love the simple truth of it. What's your favorite 0:02:21.320 --> 0:02:23.800 all time movie? I keep going back to one floor 0:02:23.800 --> 0:02:27.120 over the Cuckoo's Nest. Biggest lesson from fifty years of 0:02:27.200 --> 0:02:31.120 marriage talk, even when you do not want to know, 0:02:31.240 --> 0:02:33.880 you can solve the problem if you are willing to 0:02:33.919 --> 0:02:36.880 face the conversation. You just saved everybody a lot of 0:02:36.880 --> 0:02:38.520 money on marriage counseling. Thank you. 0:02:39.520 --> 0:02:42.919 So before we jump into the real meaty stuff. After 0:02:43.000 --> 0:02:46.680 watching your episode on the studio, one question, is it 0:02:46.760 --> 0:02:49.320 really that hard for studio executives to give notes to 0:02:49.360 --> 0:02:52.760 the big directors? 0:02:52.760 --> 0:02:56.360 Well, not me, unfortunately, and I don't talk to people 0:02:56.400 --> 0:02:58.480 that way, nor have I ever thrown my hat all. 0:02:58.520 --> 0:03:00.560 I will own up to the fact that that was 0:03:00.919 --> 0:03:05.040 my improvised moment that Seth Rogan agreed to. And then 0:03:05.520 --> 0:03:08.320 between the rehearsals and the shooting I must have thrown 0:03:08.360 --> 0:03:10.320 my hat in his face a dozen times. But he 0:03:10.400 --> 0:03:13.000 laughed every time. That great Seth Rogan laughed. So that 0:03:13.160 --> 0:03:16.080 was a fun day. You know. It does depend that 0:03:16.160 --> 0:03:19.760 was a loaded situation that they created where a director 0:03:20.200 --> 0:03:23.800 has a deep emotional connection to an aspect of the 0:03:23.840 --> 0:03:28.160 movie that they feel needs to be edited or even xcize. 0:03:28.520 --> 0:03:30.600 That's a challenge. And then when you're taking on a 0:03:30.639 --> 0:03:35.120 director who has final cut, who could basically say screw 0:03:35.160 --> 0:03:38.119 it and walk away and enforce it, it's tricky territory. 0:03:38.880 --> 0:03:41.440 So now let's jump into the real stuff. You and 0:03:41.440 --> 0:03:43.680 I are about the same age. I grew up in 0:03:43.760 --> 0:03:46.880 rural Mississippi in the fifties and sixties. The Andy griff 0:03:46.880 --> 0:03:49.320 of the show was the first show I can remember 0:03:49.680 --> 0:03:52.360 that connected with me. I could see myself in the 0:03:52.400 --> 0:03:55.280 town and with the characters, including yours. And in those 0:03:55.360 --> 0:03:57.800 days we only had three TV networks, and actually in 0:03:57.800 --> 0:04:00.400 my town we can only pick up two of them. 0:04:00.200 --> 0:04:03.920 I'm not sure exactly what the impact your show had 0:04:04.200 --> 0:04:07.400 on us from disenfranchised to America, but I know it 0:04:07.440 --> 0:04:11.400 was powerful. Did the people on the creative side doing 0:04:11.440 --> 0:04:14.480 that show have any idea of that real impact and 0:04:14.680 --> 0:04:17.640 any deliberate focus on the heartland? I think it was 0:04:18.000 --> 0:04:21.520 really interesting that that show seemed to have such respect 0:04:22.040 --> 0:04:23.400 for rural America. 0:04:24.000 --> 0:04:28.120 Well, you know, you're very perceptive. I more than once 0:04:28.800 --> 0:04:33.880 remember Andy Griffith after a read through, always cutting out 0:04:34.000 --> 0:04:41.000 jokes that he thought were sort of farcical or vaudevillian, 0:04:41.160 --> 0:04:44.560 and I remember him killing a joke that the writers loved. 0:04:44.720 --> 0:04:51.400 He said, look, the South is plenty funny without stooping 0:04:51.880 --> 0:04:55.160 to that sort of character assassination to try to get 0:04:55.200 --> 0:04:57.640 a joke and try to get a laugh. And so 0:04:57.720 --> 0:05:00.240 he understood where the humor was and he built his 0:05:00.279 --> 0:05:03.560 career on it. And yes, Bob, that tone that you're 0:05:03.600 --> 0:05:08.279 talking about is something that he helped define to begin with, 0:05:08.960 --> 0:05:12.320 and protected and built throughout the eight years. And the 0:05:12.360 --> 0:05:16.320 remarkable thing about Andy Griffiths show is even as times 0:05:16.400 --> 0:05:19.240 changed and the show shifted with it. The show went 0:05:19.279 --> 0:05:22.200 from black and white to color. Even some of the 0:05:22.200 --> 0:05:25.360 themes and the lessons that were taught and shared, they 0:05:25.400 --> 0:05:29.240 even shifted with the tumult of the sixties because our 0:05:29.279 --> 0:05:31.120 show started in sixty and we went off the air 0:05:31.160 --> 0:05:35.360 in sixty eight. But interestingly, in nineteen sixty eight, three 0:05:35.440 --> 0:05:37.920 years after Don Knots had left, after the show had 0:05:37.920 --> 0:05:40.720 been on for eight years, we actually were the number 0:05:40.720 --> 0:05:43.440 one show in the entire country for the entire season, 0:05:43.720 --> 0:05:46.120 and that was the year that Andy retired the show. 0:05:46.200 --> 0:05:51.600 But I just will never forget him sort of defending 0:05:51.640 --> 0:05:55.520 the characters yet loving them when they were funny, loving 0:05:55.560 --> 0:05:59.560 them when they were silly, as long as they remained honest. 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:03.480 As a director and a creative I think everyone would 0:06:03.839 --> 0:06:07.120 point out that you have this incredible sense of what 0:06:07.160 --> 0:06:10.919 we'll call real America. Do you think that it's rooted 0:06:11.040 --> 0:06:13.640 in the show that you did early on or was 0:06:13.680 --> 0:06:16.720 it something else that gave you that sort of insight 0:06:16.880 --> 0:06:18.520 which you carry with you today. 0:06:20.080 --> 0:06:22.960 Well, I think it definitely was rooted in this show. 0:06:23.120 --> 0:06:26.160 Everybody took it very seriously. There was a lot of laughter, 0:06:26.320 --> 0:06:30.480 and in fact, I learned that the environment could be playful, 0:06:31.560 --> 0:06:34.720 people could be having a good time, but there were 0:06:34.760 --> 0:06:37.440 also moments to buckle down and make sure that we 0:06:37.440 --> 0:06:40.039 were delivering for the audience and that we were maximizing 0:06:40.480 --> 0:06:44.479 the entertainment value and the ideas behind each story. And 0:06:44.520 --> 0:06:47.960 so as gentle and easy going as all those episodes seem, 0:06:48.400 --> 0:06:50.080 there was a lot of effort that went into it. 0:06:50.080 --> 0:06:52.520 So I got to witness that balance, and I try 0:06:52.560 --> 0:06:56.520 to carry that attitude and that approach with me as 0:06:56.520 --> 0:07:00.080 a filmmaker, and even that collaboration, that spirit of collaboration, 0:07:00.279 --> 0:07:02.760 because while there was a director and there were producers, 0:07:02.800 --> 0:07:06.680 and the buck stopped somewhere, it wasn't in the actors' hands. 0:07:07.040 --> 0:07:10.640 Actors were allowed to contribute, encouraged to contribute. I try 0:07:10.680 --> 0:07:13.520 to keep that environment going in my work as well, 0:07:13.560 --> 0:07:15.360 and I really, in fact, I think it's one of 0:07:15.400 --> 0:07:19.280 the things that keeps me going is the array of 0:07:19.440 --> 0:07:22.640 collaborators from all walks of life in every corner of 0:07:22.680 --> 0:07:25.440 the planet that I get to engage with. It just 0:07:25.560 --> 0:07:28.080 keeps it really fresh and exciting, and I keep learning. 0:07:28.600 --> 0:07:31.880 But my parents were very earthy. With my dad, my 0:07:31.960 --> 0:07:36.200 brother Clint, and I would often refer in later years 0:07:36.200 --> 0:07:41.000 to his sort of approach to life as kind of 0:07:41.040 --> 0:07:45.320 Midwestern zen. There's a go with the flow, sort of 0:07:45.360 --> 0:07:49.520 a recognition of what you can and can't control, and 0:07:49.600 --> 0:07:51.760 what are the limits of your strength, and yet a 0:07:51.800 --> 0:07:56.440 willingness to assert kind of everything you have as long 0:07:56.480 --> 0:07:58.760 as you can control something. And I think he just 0:07:58.840 --> 0:08:00.760 learned that as a farm boy growing up. He also 0:08:00.800 --> 0:08:03.000 really learned how to work. I don't think he was 0:08:03.040 --> 0:08:05.800 allergic to the idea of Clint and I working at 0:08:05.840 --> 0:08:09.880 a very early age, because he was doing real chores 0:08:09.920 --> 0:08:13.080 at age five, with a real responsibility, like don't break 0:08:13.080 --> 0:08:15.680 the eggs and make sure the cow gets milked. So 0:08:16.040 --> 0:08:18.520 I think both Clinton and I just grew up around 0:08:18.520 --> 0:08:21.840 that kind of mentality and also that post World War 0:08:21.880 --> 0:08:25.840 two optimism that everyone is so nostalgic about. 0:08:26.040 --> 0:08:27.920 You know, it's interesting I think you mentioned and it 0:08:28.080 --> 0:08:30.680 just comes to mind. I was living in a very 0:08:30.680 --> 0:08:34.480 small town in Mississippi and in the fifth grade I 0:08:34.640 --> 0:08:39.000 was hired by a men's clothing store to sweep out 0:08:39.040 --> 0:08:41.640 and clean up the store every day after it closed. 0:08:42.080 --> 0:08:44.120 I think, I mean, that's be thrown in jail for 0:08:44.240 --> 0:08:46.960 child labor, but to me it didn't seem so weird, 0:08:47.000 --> 0:08:51.160 and I got spending money. But that was obviously another time, 0:08:51.240 --> 0:08:54.880 and that was really rural America with a different set 0:08:54.880 --> 0:08:55.559 of values. 0:08:55.960 --> 0:08:59.079 And I think that kind of sense of responsibility. I mean, 0:08:59.080 --> 0:09:02.360 it's sort of difficult to impart in this day and age, 0:09:02.360 --> 0:09:05.400 and it's not like we want ten year olds cleaning 0:09:05.400 --> 0:09:07.760 out the store. But it's also one of the reasons 0:09:07.760 --> 0:09:12.720 that I believe, when well supervised, that being a child 0:09:12.760 --> 0:09:16.960 performer can be a healthy experience. It's challenging. I didn't 0:09:17.000 --> 0:09:19.839 let my kids act as kids, even though several of 0:09:19.880 --> 0:09:23.079 them clearly had the talent, and my oldest daughter, Bryce 0:09:23.480 --> 0:09:25.480 Bryce Dallas Howard, you know, it's been her career and 0:09:25.480 --> 0:09:28.960 now she's also directing. But you know, I'm very grateful 0:09:29.360 --> 0:09:32.400 for the fact that at an early age I learned 0:09:32.480 --> 0:09:35.160 how to be a part of something that was productive 0:09:35.760 --> 0:09:38.679 and creative and exciting. You know, I've built my whole 0:09:38.720 --> 0:09:42.600 adult life around that feeling. Can you talk a. 0:09:42.600 --> 0:09:46.560 Little bit collaboration. You've mentioned that's a word that's often 0:09:46.640 --> 0:09:49.400 used with you. Seems to be a very powerful weapon 0:09:49.440 --> 0:09:52.960 in your arsenal. I mean, you've had some great partnerships 0:09:53.040 --> 0:09:55.840 over time. Can you tell us a little bit about 0:09:56.520 --> 0:10:01.760 how you think about collaboration and what spokes not understand 0:10:01.760 --> 0:10:05.079 about how to make collaboration work. What's that common mistake 0:10:05.120 --> 0:10:06.200 that needs to be avoided? 0:10:07.040 --> 0:10:09.080 Well, I mean it was a mistake that I think 0:10:09.120 --> 0:10:11.440 I was making early on as a director because I 0:10:11.520 --> 0:10:13.880 was so young. You know, I began directing my first 0:10:13.920 --> 0:10:18.320 professional film the day after my twenty third birthday, and 0:10:18.400 --> 0:10:21.280 for that and the next couple of films, as sort 0:10:21.320 --> 0:10:24.800 of generally the youngest person on the set yet in charge, 0:10:25.320 --> 0:10:26.959 I think I felt like I had to have all 0:10:27.000 --> 0:10:31.080 the answers and make them be decisive and make them 0:10:31.160 --> 0:10:34.560 quick and stick to them. And I slowly but truly 0:10:34.600 --> 0:10:38.440 began to realize that I was short changing myself, and 0:10:38.480 --> 0:10:43.480 as I began to listen a bit more, my work 0:10:43.559 --> 0:10:46.319 got so much better. The other thing that I learned 0:10:46.480 --> 0:10:49.280 at a certain point is that if as a leader 0:10:49.320 --> 0:10:53.040 and look, everybody sees the director as the needed authority. 0:10:53.280 --> 0:10:57.280 It's not a democracy. Films and television shows they need 0:10:57.320 --> 0:11:00.640 to be led. It's very dynamic. Decisions are made quickly. 0:11:00.679 --> 0:11:03.640 A lot of money is being spent very quickly, so 0:11:04.320 --> 0:11:06.160 they look to the director. They want the director to 0:11:06.200 --> 0:11:11.720 be right. But I found that when I invited input 0:11:12.200 --> 0:11:14.120 more the way it was invited on The Andy Griffith 0:11:14.160 --> 0:11:18.400 Show during the rehearsals, that not only was I getting 0:11:18.400 --> 0:11:20.160 a lot of great ideas that I could use that 0:11:20.280 --> 0:11:25.640 was exciting, but two things happened. One, the ideas that 0:11:26.360 --> 0:11:30.440 were arrived at, the decisions that were arrived at that 0:11:30.600 --> 0:11:34.040 were born of somebody else's suggestion, there was a little 0:11:34.200 --> 0:11:37.199 X factor there. They understood it in some intrinsic way 0:11:37.840 --> 0:11:41.120 when they owned the idea. There was something a little magical, 0:11:41.480 --> 0:11:45.560 some intangible something that I really witnessed over and over again. 0:11:45.920 --> 0:11:48.320 And the other thing is that when they know that 0:11:48.400 --> 0:11:52.680 you're excited, not only willing, but actually excited to say 0:11:52.760 --> 0:11:56.480 yes and include them in the process. It's so much 0:11:56.520 --> 0:12:00.920 easier to say no. They recognize that there's an editorial 0:12:01.000 --> 0:12:02.079 process underway. 0:12:02.720 --> 0:12:06.440 Is that the way you keep collaboration from becoming consensus 0:12:06.600 --> 0:12:07.920 and watering down your vision. 0:12:08.559 --> 0:12:15.199 Yes. Often there are suggestions that at first glance they 0:12:15.240 --> 0:12:20.280 feel right or there's a consensus. Yet when you really 0:12:20.559 --> 0:12:23.040 put it under the microscope, you recognize that that's actually 0:12:23.080 --> 0:12:27.480 sacrificing a value, a deeper value, a theme, you know, 0:12:27.520 --> 0:12:30.880 an aspect of a character that needs to evolve and 0:12:30.920 --> 0:12:34.360 pay off in a particular way. And so people may 0:12:34.400 --> 0:12:40.320 wish for a specific moment at a specific time, and 0:12:40.360 --> 0:12:43.400 they might all agree that they really wish this moment 0:12:43.600 --> 0:12:46.320 you liked the character instead of dislike the character, or 0:12:46.360 --> 0:12:49.400 it was funny instead of sad, for example. But you 0:12:49.480 --> 0:12:53.080 may need to go against that in order to protect 0:12:53.120 --> 0:12:55.040 a more important moment down the road. And so that 0:12:55.160 --> 0:12:59.960 becomes this process of evaluating input, and that's a little exhausted. 0:13:00.520 --> 0:13:03.080 There are times when I think to myself, man, there 0:13:03.080 --> 0:13:06.080 are a lot of voices we're weighing options. I just 0:13:06.120 --> 0:13:07.920 need to cut through the clutter here and make a 0:13:07.960 --> 0:13:10.680 call and you know, I do that, and it's fine. 0:13:11.320 --> 0:13:14.240 You mentioned that it's easier to say no once you've 0:13:14.320 --> 0:13:17.640 said yes and bit inclusive in the process. How is 0:13:17.760 --> 0:13:21.760 that part of or how do you handle dissent in 0:13:21.840 --> 0:13:26.200 this creative collaboration when somebody fundamentally disagrees, Well. 0:13:26.040 --> 0:13:29.800 It depends who they are with actors, and I value 0:13:29.920 --> 0:13:35.000 actors and their contributions to the absolute max. I will 0:13:35.040 --> 0:13:38.800 often take the time for them to be able to 0:13:38.840 --> 0:13:42.600 try a shot or scene or choice their way, and 0:13:42.640 --> 0:13:45.360 then also ask them to give the version that I'm 0:13:45.360 --> 0:13:48.280 looking for as well. And the caliber of actors that 0:13:48.360 --> 0:13:50.839 I work with that I'm lucky enough to work with, 0:13:51.040 --> 0:13:53.920 they never sandbag that. I tell them very honestly. I 0:13:53.960 --> 0:13:56.240 will take both to the editing room and really seriously 0:13:56.280 --> 0:13:58.720 consider it, and I'd say it's about fifty to fifty 0:13:58.760 --> 0:14:01.360 as to which choice I take in the final cut, 0:14:01.720 --> 0:14:04.600 and as long as it achieves the objective. You know 0:14:05.040 --> 0:14:07.520 what I do in these situations where it's kind of 0:14:07.559 --> 0:14:11.600 in either or if it achieves the narrative goal or 0:14:11.640 --> 0:14:14.720 the entertainment value that we're looking for in a moment 0:14:14.960 --> 0:14:17.680 or a scene. If it's funny, if it's sad, if 0:14:17.720 --> 0:14:21.680 it's scary if it's surprising and the actor's choice is 0:14:21.800 --> 0:14:23.640 different than mine in terms of how to get there, 0:14:24.080 --> 0:14:28.000 but what they achieve is the same. The function is there. 0:14:28.160 --> 0:14:30.480 I always go with their idea. I always go with 0:14:30.520 --> 0:14:32.480 their idea. Again, back to that notion that well, they 0:14:32.480 --> 0:14:35.600 own that one. They understand that right to their core. 0:14:36.040 --> 0:14:40.080 It almost always benefits the scene. But there are times 0:14:40.080 --> 0:14:42.600 when's not a consensus and I say, no, I just 0:14:42.800 --> 0:14:45.560 I really feel this way about it. Hope you understand, 0:14:45.640 --> 0:14:48.520 And they really always do. I can't really think of 0:14:48.520 --> 0:14:51.880 a situation where I haven't gotten the takes that I 0:14:51.920 --> 0:14:54.360 thought I needed to tell the story in the way 0:14:54.360 --> 0:14:57.480 that I believed was most likely to work. But I 0:14:57.480 --> 0:15:00.240 also can't begin to count the number of times I've 0:15:00.240 --> 0:15:05.400 benefited from saying, yeah, let's try it that way. Moral Mathemagic. 0:15:05.480 --> 0:15:13.360 Right after this quick break, welcome back to mathem Magic. 0:15:13.680 --> 0:15:18.280 Hear more from my conversation with Ron Howard. This podcast 0:15:18.480 --> 0:15:23.000 is rooted in marketing, and one of the essential skills 0:15:23.000 --> 0:15:25.400 for marketers is being able to tell the story of 0:15:25.440 --> 0:15:29.520 the product or brand. You are an extraordinary storyteller. What 0:15:29.640 --> 0:15:33.080 advice would you give them on how to construct the 0:15:33.120 --> 0:15:36.760 most compelling story to connect to the audiences. 0:15:37.280 --> 0:15:39.400 Wow, Bob, you know, I wish Brian Grazier was on 0:15:39.440 --> 0:15:42.800 this podcast with us because our partnership, which is coming 0:15:42.840 --> 0:15:46.640 on to forty years formally just since we formed Imagine, 0:15:46.800 --> 0:15:49.400 is kind of brilliant and exactly what you're talking about. 0:15:49.960 --> 0:15:52.400 And I think it's one of the reasons we've had 0:15:52.400 --> 0:15:55.600 a lot of successes with Imagine is he's able to 0:15:56.400 --> 0:16:00.000 understand that kind of the artistic value of an idea, 0:16:00.600 --> 0:16:05.560 the entertainment value of an idea, but also innately just 0:16:05.720 --> 0:16:07.920 have a sense of how it might reach an audience 0:16:07.960 --> 0:16:10.360 and what it might mean to an audience. To try 0:16:10.400 --> 0:16:13.320 to answer your question, I think you always want to 0:16:13.320 --> 0:16:16.720 get down to the essence of what the story is, 0:16:16.800 --> 0:16:19.360 what the narrative is. And by the way, in recent years, 0:16:19.400 --> 0:16:21.520 we've started working with brands a lot. We have a 0:16:21.520 --> 0:16:25.560 division to Imagine that Mark Gilbar runs it that works 0:16:25.640 --> 0:16:28.240 closely with brands. But one of the things that Brian 0:16:28.360 --> 0:16:30.640 found first and I'm on board with and agree with 0:16:30.680 --> 0:16:36.920 completely is often the brands do offer a set of themes, values, 0:16:37.520 --> 0:16:42.440 a history that suggests certain narratives that are pretty entertaining, 0:16:42.840 --> 0:16:44.920 and so we don't do TV commercials, but we've been 0:16:44.920 --> 0:16:47.480 able to find ways to sort of build on those 0:16:47.560 --> 0:16:50.080 narratives in fun ways and do a lot of work 0:16:50.120 --> 0:16:52.160 with brands that I really enjoy. But I think when 0:16:52.160 --> 0:16:57.560 you get at that essence, you understand what the relationship is, 0:16:58.520 --> 0:17:02.840 what the proposition is for your customer. In our case, 0:17:02.880 --> 0:17:06.600 it's an audience. So what is the utility and what 0:17:06.760 --> 0:17:09.920 is your promise? And how do you deliver? And why 0:17:09.960 --> 0:17:11.920 is it special? You want to be able to answer 0:17:11.960 --> 0:17:15.359 those questions about a movie project or a television show. 0:17:15.880 --> 0:17:19.160 You want to understand what the possibility is to live 0:17:19.240 --> 0:17:22.440 up to that. Why can you be special? Why will 0:17:22.480 --> 0:17:24.800 you mean something to an audience member who takes the 0:17:24.880 --> 0:17:28.399 time and spends the money to watch the story you're telling. 0:17:29.080 --> 0:17:31.159 And by the way, with Brian, it is one of 0:17:31.160 --> 0:17:34.640 the things I didn't mention here but should is that 0:17:34.920 --> 0:17:38.840 you also built a business structure around what you do. 0:17:38.920 --> 0:17:41.440 You and Brian would imagine and for people who are 0:17:41.480 --> 0:17:44.280 not my age, who are very early I can remember 0:17:44.320 --> 0:17:45.720 when You Guys first came out. 0:17:45.840 --> 0:17:47.879 It was maybe one of the hottest IPOs. 0:17:47.960 --> 0:17:51.119 You couldn't buy stock, everybody who was clamoring for it, 0:17:51.480 --> 0:17:53.840 and you really set a standard that I think a 0:17:53.880 --> 0:17:56.919 lot of folks tried to copy after that, but you guys. 0:17:56.640 --> 0:17:58.919 Were really the innovators there. I always wanted to be 0:17:58.920 --> 0:18:01.280 a producer as well. I was always interested in having 0:18:01.320 --> 0:18:03.680 as much control and autonomy, and I think a lot 0:18:03.680 --> 0:18:05.800 of that came from the fact that growing up in 0:18:05.880 --> 0:18:08.879 my father was an actor and a writer, but always 0:18:08.920 --> 0:18:13.360 freelance and always waiting for that phone during and I 0:18:13.440 --> 0:18:17.080 wanted to be involved in a company, in a partnership 0:18:17.480 --> 0:18:21.560 that would help generate that workflow with as much control 0:18:21.720 --> 0:18:25.960 as possible. So when Brian and I came together, we'd 0:18:25.960 --> 0:18:28.960 each had small companies of our own, so it was 0:18:28.960 --> 0:18:30.639 in a way it was kind of a little merger 0:18:31.080 --> 0:18:33.719 and began to build. Imagine you know, it was an 0:18:33.760 --> 0:18:37.600 exciting time. We've had a long journey, eventful in a 0:18:37.640 --> 0:18:42.159 lot of ways, plenty of ops, some challenges too, and 0:18:42.240 --> 0:18:45.800 yet this is such an exciting moment for a company. 0:18:46.400 --> 0:18:50.639 It's hell if you're a platform or a studio or 0:18:50.640 --> 0:18:53.080 a network trying to figure out what to invest in. 0:18:53.720 --> 0:19:00.560 But if you're a creator, just believing in ideas, aggregating talent, 0:19:00.760 --> 0:19:04.520 finding great collaborators and getting stuff made, it's pretty thrilling. 0:19:04.800 --> 0:19:07.560 That's what we're finding out. The hard work still sure 0:19:08.119 --> 0:19:10.040 hasn't gotten any easier. In fact, it seems like we 0:19:10.119 --> 0:19:12.720 keep having to reinvent ourselves every few years. But maybe 0:19:12.760 --> 0:19:15.320 that's what keeps it fresh and fun for us. 0:19:15.760 --> 0:19:19.240 You made this improbable jump. I mentioned it in the 0:19:19.280 --> 0:19:24.000 opening from actor to director. How did you make that jump? 0:19:24.520 --> 0:19:27.480 It was very unlikely in those days. People stayed in 0:19:27.480 --> 0:19:31.119 their lane. There were a few examples before me on 0:19:31.160 --> 0:19:34.680 the Andy Griffith Show. Most of our directors had been actors, 0:19:34.800 --> 0:19:38.920 so I did recognize that that was a possibility, and 0:19:39.560 --> 0:19:42.960 at a very early age, some of those people who 0:19:43.000 --> 0:19:46.320 I respected said to me, starting around age nine or ten, 0:19:46.840 --> 0:19:48.600 I bet you're going to be a director. I just 0:19:48.760 --> 0:19:53.040 see the way you're watching and the way you work, 0:19:53.160 --> 0:19:55.199 and I just have a feeling of someday you're going 0:19:55.280 --> 0:19:57.440 to want to be the director. And I just fell 0:19:57.440 --> 0:20:00.920 in love with the idea of being a director, and 0:20:01.240 --> 0:20:04.000 by the time I was in my mid teens, it 0:20:04.160 --> 0:20:08.879 was really all I thought about. And the only real 0:20:09.040 --> 0:20:14.439 example just before me, Alan Alda was directing some of 0:20:14.440 --> 0:20:18.399 the Mash episodes and also starting to direct features. Woodie 0:20:18.400 --> 0:20:22.280 Allen was an actor who'd become a director, Michael Landon, 0:20:22.280 --> 0:20:25.000 who did Little House on the Prairie. He directed not 0:20:25.080 --> 0:20:28.920 only that show, but often a television movie almost every year. 0:20:29.600 --> 0:20:32.600 And so there were these examples, and I was just 0:20:32.640 --> 0:20:36.439 determined to follow it. But everyone was very patronizing about it. 0:20:36.520 --> 0:20:38.960 I mean they'd sort of say, well, cute kid, hang 0:20:39.000 --> 0:20:41.320 in there, and maybe in your thirties or forties, somebody'll 0:20:41.400 --> 0:20:44.720 let you direct some TV or something. But that wasn't 0:20:44.800 --> 0:20:47.800 what I had in mind. Well, it certainly worked out 0:20:47.840 --> 0:20:51.520 for you. Roger Corman was the key. Roger Corman was 0:20:51.560 --> 0:20:54.800 a very interesting guy, a great, great low budget B 0:20:55.000 --> 0:21:00.560 movie producer director. When I was struggling to get anyone 0:21:00.560 --> 0:21:02.639 to take me seriously, and I was making short films 0:21:02.680 --> 0:21:04.960 on the weekends and even beginning to make a short 0:21:05.359 --> 0:21:10.639 feature film in sixteen millimeter, one day Roger sent me 0:21:10.720 --> 0:21:13.200 this script to act in. Now Happy Days was becoming 0:21:13.200 --> 0:21:15.119 a real number one show, but I wasn't being offered 0:21:15.119 --> 0:21:17.560 a lot of great roles to act in. And it 0:21:17.600 --> 0:21:19.560 was called Eat My Dust. I read the script and 0:21:19.600 --> 0:21:21.280 didn't care for Eat My Dust. But I knew a 0:21:21.359 --> 0:21:24.239 lot about Roger Korman. I knew that Roger Korman had 0:21:24.240 --> 0:21:27.879 given Francis Koppol his first movie. He'd given Martin Scorsese 0:21:28.119 --> 0:21:31.280 his second movie. The list went on and on. So 0:21:31.359 --> 0:21:34.120 when I met with Roger, I said, I don't really 0:21:34.200 --> 0:21:37.720 love eating my dust, but what I really wanted to 0:21:37.760 --> 0:21:40.159 do was direct. And I handed him a script that 0:21:40.320 --> 0:21:43.280 my father and I had written together and some short 0:21:43.320 --> 0:21:46.600 films that I'd done, and he said, I'll look at 0:21:46.640 --> 0:21:50.080 him and i'll read. He called me back and he said, well, 0:21:50.200 --> 0:21:52.720 I can see that you can direct, and the writing 0:21:52.800 --> 0:21:55.119 is good. It's not the kind of movie that I make. 0:21:55.240 --> 0:21:57.760 That's a slice of life character movie. I would want 0:21:57.760 --> 0:22:00.280 you to do an action film or a genre picture 0:22:00.320 --> 0:22:02.600 of some sort. But if you'll act and eat my dust, 0:22:02.640 --> 0:22:06.800 and if it's successful, I'll let you develop a project 0:22:06.800 --> 0:22:09.760 with me, and if I do it, you'll direct it, 0:22:09.800 --> 0:22:11.840 so long as you're willing to be in it. If 0:22:11.880 --> 0:22:15.040 I choose not to do it, here's the guarantee, I'll 0:22:15.119 --> 0:22:19.040 let you direct the car crash unit on an action movie. Well, 0:22:19.080 --> 0:22:21.560 it wasn't exactly everything I was dreaming of in the 0:22:21.560 --> 0:22:24.160 way of a guarantee. It wasn't going to be Citizen 0:22:24.240 --> 0:22:27.959