WEBVTT - Black Music Month QLS Classic: Otis Williams 0:00:00.400 --> 0:00:04.240 Course Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This classic 0:00:04.280 --> 0:00:07.040 episode was produced by the team at Pandora. 0:00:08.960 --> 0:00:12.319 What up, y'all is Laiyah from Team Supreme. Okay, So 0:00:12.480 --> 0:00:15.520 it's June, and you know it is Black Music Month. Now, 0:00:15.560 --> 0:00:18.320 this month and its cause was started by my godmother, 0:00:18.400 --> 0:00:21.520 Dianna Williams, the legendary Kenny Gamble, and the great and 0:00:21.840 --> 0:00:25.040 right back in nineteen seventy nine after being invited to 0:00:25.079 --> 0:00:28.160 the White House along with the Black Music Association. Now, 0:00:28.200 --> 0:00:31.440 the Black Music Association was a group of black folks 0:00:31.440 --> 0:00:33.160 that were the best of the best of the music industry. 0:00:33.200 --> 0:00:36.560 I'm talking record execs, I'm talking radio people, I'm talking artists. 0:00:36.640 --> 0:00:40.360 I'm talking to everybody from Clarence Avon and Frankie Crocker 0:00:40.400 --> 0:00:42.839 to Percy Sutton, everybody in the middle right. So they 0:00:42.880 --> 0:00:44.960 all get invited to this big party on the White 0:00:44.960 --> 0:00:47.960 House lawn June seventh, nineteen seventy nine. And before the 0:00:48.040 --> 0:00:53.120 performances started, President Carter said many things addressing and reminding 0:00:53.159 --> 0:00:55.920 people of the importance of Black Music Month, and one 0:00:55.920 --> 0:00:59.560 of the things he said was end quote in many ways, 0:00:59.600 --> 0:01:02.200 the feeling of our own black citizens throughout the history 0:01:02.200 --> 0:01:05.319 of our country has been accurately expressed in the music, 0:01:05.640 --> 0:01:07.920 and it presents a kind of history of our nation 0:01:08.040 --> 0:01:10.559 when you go back and see the evolution of black 0:01:10.680 --> 0:01:14.360 music word. So, we've spoken a lot about Black Music 0:01:14.400 --> 0:01:17.520 Month on Questlove Supreme, and this June we are running 0:01:17.520 --> 0:01:21.759 a different episode from the QLs archives every single day 0:01:22.080 --> 0:01:25.600 in the name, spirit and cause of Black Music Month. 0:01:27.000 --> 0:01:30.160 Here is the one and only Otis Williams as you 0:01:30.240 --> 0:01:42.600 have never heard him from the Temptations. 0:01:43.280 --> 0:01:47.040 Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to a special Quest Love Supreme. 0:01:47.360 --> 0:01:50.360 I'm your host Quest Love Jenkins, and with me today 0:01:50.400 --> 0:01:54.560 is Boss Phil, Sugar Steve and it's li Eah Team Supreme. 0:01:55.480 --> 0:01:59.720 Today we are celebrating a legacy. For the past six decades. 0:02:00.440 --> 0:02:02.520 Yes was the glue that held together one of the 0:02:02.600 --> 0:02:06.160 most tightest elegant music dynasties in the history of modern 0:02:06.240 --> 0:02:09.800 Western music. Their brand, a sophisticated pop and soul with 0:02:09.880 --> 0:02:12.480 such gems as my Girl, the way you Do Things 0:02:12.480 --> 0:02:14.120 you do in at Proud to Big just the name 0:02:14.120 --> 0:02:16.800 of a few was just as crucial to the Civil 0:02:16.880 --> 0:02:19.320 Rights era as lived every voice to sing. 0:02:20.200 --> 0:02:22.440 There isn't a vocal group or band act of today 0:02:23.400 --> 0:02:26.320 or in the past, who has not been influenced by them, 0:02:26.480 --> 0:02:29.440 from their macline vocal harmony structure, to their choreography, to 0:02:29.480 --> 0:02:31.680 their outfits, to their songs of love that have stood 0:02:31.680 --> 0:02:32.200 the test of. 0:02:32.160 --> 0:02:36.480 Time, to their political anthems. Just as relevant twenty eighteen 0:02:36.520 --> 0:02:39.200 as it was in nineteen sixty eight, music would not 0:02:39.320 --> 0:02:41.760 be what it is today without the Temptations, and the 0:02:41.800 --> 0:02:47.079 Temptations would not be the everlasting institution it is without 0:02:47.080 --> 0:02:50.240 the one and only heartbeat of the Temptations. Lady and gentleman, 0:02:50.360 --> 0:02:55.080 please welcome our guests, Sir Otus Williams to quest of. 0:03:01.160 --> 0:03:05.519 Thank you, rattle that off real good. 0:03:08.160 --> 0:03:11.320 You know, I'm gonna do something a little different than 0:03:11.360 --> 0:03:14.959 I normally do on the show. Well, I want to 0:03:15.000 --> 0:03:17.360 ask you. Normally I want to go back to the beginning, 0:03:17.400 --> 0:03:23.960 but I want to ask you what keeps you going well? 0:03:23.960 --> 0:03:27.040 Of couse, on the real side, it's love. What I do. 0:03:27.080 --> 0:03:28.839 You know, when you stop and think about this world 0:03:28.880 --> 0:03:30.720 that we live in, and now all the people that 0:03:30.800 --> 0:03:33.960 inhabit this world, it's a small microcosm of us that 0:03:34.000 --> 0:03:36.400 are getting that to get a chance to do what 0:03:36.440 --> 0:03:38.760 we'd like to do for a long time, you know, 0:03:38.840 --> 0:03:40.839 and God has blessed me to be able to ride 0:03:40.880 --> 0:03:43.200 the hell off the horse. So I'm enjoying this yere. 0:03:43.240 --> 0:03:44.920 You know, it's a labor of love. And when you 0:03:44.960 --> 0:03:48.640 can bring happiness to the world over in by way 0:03:48.680 --> 0:03:51.680 of music, you know, music have been able to do 0:03:51.760 --> 0:03:55.680 some things that politicians haven't been able to do. So 0:03:55.800 --> 0:03:57.839 I love what I do and I'm thankful to God 0:03:57.960 --> 0:04:00.200 for you know, still being able to do it the 0:04:00.280 --> 0:04:01.320 fifty eight years. 0:04:01.720 --> 0:04:08.080 Yeah, that's impressive as as someone that's at the epicenter 0:04:08.520 --> 0:04:16.159 of a group of people and not controlling them per se. 0:04:16.279 --> 0:04:19.400 But I know the headaches, the daily headaches that it 0:04:19.480 --> 0:04:28.200 takes to manage different band attitudes and whatever it be 0:04:28.320 --> 0:04:34.640 it uh you're trying to put it. I'm just saying 0:04:34.680 --> 0:04:38.000 that I admire you so much. And you know, I've 0:04:38.000 --> 0:04:40.720 read I've read your book when when I was like seventeen, 0:04:40.839 --> 0:04:45.039 your your your autobiography that came out, and like, like, 0:04:45.200 --> 0:04:48.000 I know that being the glue of an institution is 0:04:48.000 --> 0:04:50.200 one of the hardest things. Like where you wake up 0:04:50.640 --> 0:04:54.159 daily or weekly trying to figure out what can I 0:04:54.160 --> 0:04:57.240 get through this day without sure drama? And you know, 0:04:57.320 --> 0:04:59.240 I know that you've gone through like members of the 0:04:59.240 --> 0:05:03.640 group and yeah, arguments like yeah, all that is it? 0:05:03.760 --> 0:05:06.960 Is it worth it that? That's really my my my question. 0:05:07.240 --> 0:05:07.960 Is it worth it that? 0:05:08.080 --> 0:05:10.520 Well? You know, look, I look at it. First of all, 0:05:10.600 --> 0:05:13.560 you're dealing with people. When you understand that you're dealing 0:05:13.560 --> 0:05:15.919 with people, then you have to really understand that a 0:05:15.960 --> 0:05:20.279 lot of you know, things come along with that, and uh, 0:05:20.440 --> 0:05:23.800 it's worth it, you know because when we're on stage 0:05:24.000 --> 0:05:28.400 and we here and see people with tears in their eyes. 0:05:29.120 --> 0:05:31.240 And I'm not talking about ladies, I'm talking about grown men, 0:05:31.960 --> 0:05:34.760 you know. And we were on one night a few 0:05:34.800 --> 0:05:38.200 weeks ago and my robe bandager said, Dougie, his name 0:05:38.240 --> 0:05:39.919 is Dougie, we called him Douge. He said, oh, you 0:05:39.960 --> 0:05:41.720 have got to see this little three year old boy 0:05:42.480 --> 0:05:44.600 playing with his car and he said, do do do 0:05:45.200 --> 0:05:48.440 do do do dud Uh he's three years old. So 0:05:48.520 --> 0:05:50.160 when you see from three years old all the way 0:05:50.240 --> 0:05:52.760 up to almost one hundred, it's worth it. You know. 0:05:52.839 --> 0:05:55.760 You just have to put up with, uh, you know, 0:05:55.839 --> 0:05:58.279 the shenanigans and the moods and the what have you 0:05:58.360 --> 0:06:01.520 with people, you know, but God has helped me to 0:06:01.640 --> 0:06:03.800 make it through. They said Barry Gordy and a lot 0:06:03.839 --> 0:06:07.080 of the heavyweights at Motown and thereabout have said, oh, 0:06:07.400 --> 0:06:10.719 you are the glue that holds the Temptations together. And 0:06:11.000 --> 0:06:13.400 I figured that day, if my shoulders are big enough 0:06:13.400 --> 0:06:15.320 and strong enough to do it, then it's well worth 0:06:15.360 --> 0:06:17.840 the wait, because when I'm at home and I walk 0:06:17.880 --> 0:06:20.200 around my house and look at all of all the 0:06:20.240 --> 0:06:23.120 things that I've achieved, it's worth there. You know, it 0:06:23.120 --> 0:06:24.840 would be like me crying with a lot of bread 0:06:24.839 --> 0:06:27.200 on the moms. So I really can't complain. 0:06:27.240 --> 0:06:31.200 Okay, I gotta I gotta take that into accountant. Yeah, 0:06:31.240 --> 0:06:32.520 I really like this guy. 0:06:35.279 --> 0:06:35.600 You would. 0:06:36.040 --> 0:06:41.720 So in the days of the Elgins, before you became 0:06:41.760 --> 0:06:44.440 a temptation. First of all, how did you guys? What 0:06:44.560 --> 0:06:47.640 was the transformation from the Elgins to the Temptations. 0:06:48.080 --> 0:06:51.960 Well, even before the Elegins, my group was called ODIs Williams. 0:06:52.000 --> 0:06:54.160 In the distance. We were with a little small they 0:06:54.160 --> 0:06:57.560 were called Northern Records, and the lady that ran the label, 0:06:57.680 --> 0:07:01.080 Johnny Maye Matthews, she recalled Listen. We had a nice 0:07:01.080 --> 0:07:04.240 little regional hit called come On, and they did very well, 0:07:04.279 --> 0:07:07.520 so much so that she sold the masters to Warwick Records, 0:07:08.000 --> 0:07:11.280 and so one day she came from New York back 0:07:11.320 --> 0:07:13.520 to Detroit and she just taking out all these hundred dollars. 0:07:13.880 --> 0:07:16.400 You don't select them, these hundred dollar bills. And that 0:07:16.520 --> 0:07:20.120 was about this, about seventeen eighteen years old, and she said, well, 0:07:20.240 --> 0:07:22.440 you guys, your record's gonna be here all over America. 0:07:22.480 --> 0:07:25.440 I sold into Warwick Records and now they can hear 0:07:25.480 --> 0:07:27.120 it all over the world. And I said, oh that's good. 0:07:29.040 --> 0:07:30.680 Did we get some roll with this further? Cause I 0:07:30.680 --> 0:07:33.720 wrote the first uh, the regional hit. And she looked 0:07:33.720 --> 0:07:36.640 at me with the jaunt's eye. She said, you ain't 0:07:36.840 --> 0:07:39.280 getting none of this money. This is my money. Now. 0:07:39.840 --> 0:07:42.600 We were doing record hops backgun those days, and record 0:07:42.640 --> 0:07:44.240 hops is well as you go around to the disc 0:07:44.320 --> 0:07:48.200 jockeys record hops and so they can continue to play records. 0:07:48.800 --> 0:07:52.760 So Smoking Smoking Miracle, Smoking Robinson and the Miracles were 0:07:52.840 --> 0:07:54.840 very hot at the time, and mister Gordon was with them, 0:07:54.920 --> 0:07:58.120 so we could see them from the stage. And as 0:07:58.160 --> 0:08:01.520 they were coming in, we came and mister Gordon said, 0:08:01.520 --> 0:08:04.600 I like your group, your record. If you should leave 0:08:04.600 --> 0:08:07.760 where you are, come see me. And I did you know, 0:08:07.920 --> 0:08:10.080 cause Johnny Mae had said we were gonna get any 0:08:10.080 --> 0:08:12.400 of that money. So I called mister Gordon and he said, 0:08:12.760 --> 0:08:15.360 come on over here, and UH see Mickey Stevens. It 0:08:15.360 --> 0:08:18.040 was A and R man. So Johnny Mae kept the 0:08:18.160 --> 0:08:20.600 name that uh ODIs Swilliams in the distance. So I guess, 0:08:20.600 --> 0:08:23.040 being young and whatever, I said, well keep the name. 0:08:23.040 --> 0:08:25.400 We young, We'll start all over again. So when we 0:08:25.440 --> 0:08:28.880 got over to uh Motown, we stood out in front 0:08:28.880 --> 0:08:32.440 of a building called uh the uh Legal Department of Motown, 0:08:33.000 --> 0:08:35.640 and a guy name was Bill Mitchell. He said, so, 0:08:35.760 --> 0:08:37.880 what are we gonna call you guys? And we stood 0:08:37.920 --> 0:08:40.440 there and we stood there. He said, what about the temptation? 0:08:40.520 --> 0:08:43.720 I said, I like that. And at the time, David 0:08:43.800 --> 0:08:47.160 Ruffing wasn't in the group, but Al Bryant, Eddie Kendricks, 0:08:47.720 --> 0:08:50.760 Paul Williams, and Melvin Franklin myself, uh we were the 0:08:51.400 --> 0:08:53.320 no name group at the time. So I said, I 0:08:53.440 --> 0:08:56.000 like that, and I asked Paul, I'd rather I asked 0:08:56.000 --> 0:08:58.319 all the guys, but Paul Williams said oldis a name 0:08:58.440 --> 0:09:01.840 is whatever we make it. So temptations. So Bill hollered 0:09:01.880 --> 0:09:05.640 back up to legal department put on the contract to temptations. 0:09:05.960 --> 0:09:07.880 And so in nineteen sixty one. All the way up 0:09:07.920 --> 0:09:10.520 till now we have been known as the Temptation. 0:09:10.960 --> 0:09:13.600 The movie totally got that wrong. They over dramatized the 0:09:13.640 --> 0:09:14.080 whole thing. 0:09:14.440 --> 0:09:16.640 They said, y'all was sitting outside for like eight hours 0:09:16.640 --> 0:09:19.960 trying to figure out outside of Hitsville, and then you 0:09:20.040 --> 0:09:22.400 come in and then mister Gordy says, well, what's your name? 0:09:22.400 --> 0:09:23.079 Because I can't have. 0:09:23.080 --> 0:09:25.560 Y'all be whatever y'all said y'all was, and y'all but 0:09:25.640 --> 0:09:26.679 like we got to make it sexy. 0:09:26.920 --> 0:09:28.800 Yeah, yeah, they're deire dramatized. 0:09:28.800 --> 0:09:30.840 You know what I learned when I say, because I'm 0:09:30.960 --> 0:09:32.560 being honest with you, I have yet to sit and 0:09:32.559 --> 0:09:33.680 watch that mini series. 0:09:34.480 --> 0:09:40.320 Seriously, right, I understand that, but I'm just worried because 0:09:40.440 --> 0:09:42.720 now they just they show it so much. 0:09:42.840 --> 0:09:45.160 Oh yeah, Well, what I learned a little bit that 0:09:45.320 --> 0:09:48.720 I saw the scene where as Melvin Franklin and myself 0:09:48.760 --> 0:09:50.760 had to go to the David Refference apartment. Now, the 0:09:50.800 --> 0:09:55.960 guy that played me what is this named Charles Malik D. B. 0:09:56.000 --> 0:09:59.000 Woodside who played Melvin and naturally the Leon. So I'm 0:09:59.040 --> 0:10:00.960 standing in the shadows in the way they're getting the 0:10:01.040 --> 0:10:04.360 lighting and everything all fixed up. So Allen Archis, the 0:10:04.360 --> 0:10:06.160 director said, all right, action camera. 0:10:06.160 --> 0:10:06.600 I rolled them. 0:10:06.600 --> 0:10:09.200 The girl came up with the class well BAP and 0:10:09.240 --> 0:10:11.520 the two brothers that played me. One of myself knocked 0:10:11.520 --> 0:10:13.880 on the door and leone opened the door. And when 0:10:13.880 --> 0:10:17.840 they started to deliver their lives, I said, oh no, 0:10:17.960 --> 0:10:19.920 I can't watch this. Now. We're talking about the year 0:10:19.920 --> 0:10:22.520 in nineteen ninety eight, but when that incident happened, it 0:10:22.559 --> 0:10:25.480 was nineteen sixty six, so it lets you know that 0:10:25.640 --> 0:10:28.560 there was still a lot of stuff done underneath. So 0:10:28.720 --> 0:10:30.920 one day we're in New York where my players getting 0:10:30.920 --> 0:10:34.120 ready to open up, I mean in DC at the 0:10:34.240 --> 0:10:37.960 Kennedy Center, and Smoker heard that I hadn't seen the movie. 0:10:38.360 --> 0:10:41.240 He said. He calls me, oh, oh, you mean you 0:10:41.240 --> 0:10:43.959 haven't seen the movie. I said, now, Smoker, I don't 0:10:43.960 --> 0:10:47.840 want to cry. You need to watch a movie. I said, well, 0:10:47.920 --> 0:10:49.920 I'll get round to watch it. I said, well, let 0:10:49.920 --> 0:10:52.080 me ask you something, Smoker. Have you watched it? Oh, 0:10:52.280 --> 0:10:53.839 I'll watch it, I said, did you cry? 0:10:54.160 --> 0:10:54.400 Yeah? 0:10:54.400 --> 0:10:56.400 I cried, So you need to get your box of 0:10:56.440 --> 0:10:59.160 clean axes and sit down and watch it. I have 0:10:59.280 --> 0:11:01.480 yet to watch it. But when I saw it up 0:11:01.520 --> 0:11:05.839 in Berkeley. I sat there and the move I mean, 0:11:05.840 --> 0:11:07.800 the play is very touching. It's gonna be seen that 0:11:08.200 --> 0:11:09.480 you need to take a clean EXE. 0:11:09.480 --> 0:11:11.440 So wait, what's the difference, cause there's an actual there's 0:11:11.440 --> 0:11:13.760 a play versus the shut Rushes, the mini series that 0:11:13.800 --> 0:11:14.160 we saw. 0:11:14.679 --> 0:11:18.679 Well, the play is very touching. Yeah, in the sense 0:11:18.720 --> 0:11:22.400 of you get another kind of feeling in person. Mm 0:11:22.440 --> 0:11:25.520 and uh so as I'm sitting there watching it, the 0:11:25.559 --> 0:11:28.160 people that's sitting around me, they would watch the play 0:11:28.240 --> 0:11:29.160 and they would do like to. 0:11:29.080 --> 0:11:30.959 See 'em get a glance at you. 0:11:31.120 --> 0:11:33.480 Yeah, they wanna see if I'm crying and true enough 0:11:33.559 --> 0:11:35.600 tears well enough in my eyes because there's a scene 0:11:35.600 --> 0:11:39.120 whereas uh uh the white folks are shooting at us 0:11:39.160 --> 0:11:41.600 down south and uh oh yeah, no, we went through 0:11:41.600 --> 0:11:44.959 all that, you know, so uh yes, it's been very real. 0:11:45.080 --> 0:11:48.320 But you know, I I'm very glad that, you know, 0:11:48.360 --> 0:11:51.200 I was able to put it in paper. Now from 0:11:51.280 --> 0:11:55.800 that to it'll start next month in DC and uh 0:11:55.840 --> 0:11:57.640 it'll be there for five weeks and then they'll go 0:11:57.679 --> 0:12:02.079 to LA and then from LA uh to Toronto and 0:12:02.120 --> 0:12:05.280 then hopefully Broadway. And they're just waiting for the right 0:12:05.360 --> 0:12:07.600 theater and the name of it is Ain't Too Proud? 0:12:07.679 --> 0:12:09.359 The Life and Times of the Temptations. 0:12:09.440 --> 0:12:11.840 Yeah. I got to meet the people that produced that. 0:12:12.360 --> 0:12:16.319 Hight I mean that wrote the screen. 0:12:16.520 --> 0:12:18.480 Oh yeah, yeah yeah Detroit girl. 0:12:18.559 --> 0:12:21.960 She's yeah, it's it's it's amazing. 0:12:22.000 --> 0:12:23.880 And do you at least do like have anything to 0:12:23.920 --> 0:12:25.880 do with the casting, either the mini series or the 0:12:25.880 --> 0:12:27.439 play for the person who plays you? 0:12:27.720 --> 0:12:28.240 Do you care? 0:12:28.280 --> 0:12:30.600 Do you well? At first I wanted Lead to play 0:12:30.600 --> 0:12:32.560 me because Leo and I we're pretty close. You know. 0:12:32.600 --> 0:12:34.199 When we got to greenlight that it was going to 0:12:34.240 --> 0:12:36.960 be done on NBC, I told us, say, a man, 0:12:36.960 --> 0:12:38.960 they're going to do the Temps life story. I would 0:12:38.960 --> 0:12:40.800 love for you to play me. He said, oh, oh, 0:12:40.920 --> 0:12:42.640 this man. You know you my man, I'd be glad 0:12:42.679 --> 0:12:45.280 to play you. So the Temps we went to Paris. 0:12:45.360 --> 0:12:47.240 That did one night or so. By the time we 0:12:47.280 --> 0:12:50.960 came back from Paris, my manager Shelley said, well, got 0:12:50.960 --> 0:12:55.240 the green light, we're gonna do it, and uh, but 0:12:55.360 --> 0:12:57.599 I got to tell you good news and bad news. 0:12:57.880 --> 0:12:59.920 I said, Okay, what's that let's say He said, well, Lee, 0:13:00.240 --> 0:13:03.600 it's gonna be in the miniseries. That's all good. So 0:13:03.640 --> 0:13:08.040 what's the band news. He's gonna play David Ruffing? What David? 0:13:08.160 --> 0:13:11.240 I meant what Leon did while we were over in Paris. 0:13:12.000 --> 0:13:14.439 Leon went at the past that we used to wear 0:13:14.440 --> 0:13:16.679 back then and called the content on tight all the 0:13:16.720 --> 0:13:19.200 way down. He went and got his hair, you know, 0:13:19.520 --> 0:13:21.319 like David used to wear in the glasses. 0:13:21.520 --> 0:13:21.840 Wow. 0:13:22.120 --> 0:13:24.360 Yeah. And when he walked into the casting with all 0:13:24.440 --> 0:13:27.120 the powers to be that was sitting there Susane in 0:13:27.120 --> 0:13:30.160 the passing them say you play David Ruffing. That's how 0:13:30.400 --> 0:13:31.120 he got the role. 0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:33.800 It's weird that you haven't seen it because one of 0:13:33.880 --> 0:13:37.640 the most iconic lines from it that's become an internet 0:13:37.679 --> 0:13:43.240 meme is you know I've been getting that class everywhere. 0:13:43.400 --> 0:13:45.559 Yeah, but I said, yeah, but look at me now 0:13:48.160 --> 0:13:49.000 I'm still here. 0:13:49.840 --> 0:13:56.319 Yeah. So when you guys started at motown's explain to 0:13:56.360 --> 0:14:01.960 our listeners the idea of the charm school, Uh oh wow? 0:14:02.640 --> 0:14:05.679 Going through Well, first of all, just the idea of 0:14:07.080 --> 0:14:10.400 what was the idea behind wanting to present that and 0:14:10.400 --> 0:14:13.880 and uh sophisticated sure look to America as a po 0:14:14.120 --> 0:14:16.760 what was it before and why was that such a 0:14:16.800 --> 0:14:17.800 revolutionary move? 0:14:18.000 --> 0:14:20.320 Well, I I think you know talent a lot of 0:14:20.400 --> 0:14:22.440 times need to be cultivated. You know, you gonna have 0:14:22.440 --> 0:14:24.040 all the talent in the world, but it's one thing 0:14:24.080 --> 0:14:26.600 to know how to present yourself when you are, uh, 0:14:26.720 --> 0:14:29.160 you know, really out on front Street. And I have 0:14:29.200 --> 0:14:31.320 to give those accolades to uh. A lot of people 0:14:31.360 --> 0:14:33.200 say Barry Gordon. No, I have to give a credit 0:14:33.240 --> 0:14:36.160 to Harvey fu Kuah. Yeah, Harvey a few Quah was 0:14:36.200 --> 0:14:39.160 from the Moonglows and he knew Charlie Adkins and so 0:14:39.280 --> 0:14:42.200 in the process of Motown really becoming the iconic label 0:14:42.480 --> 0:14:45.240 it is known for today, evidently h uh Harvey must 0:14:45.280 --> 0:14:47.760 have met but Barry and said, you know, we need 0:14:47.800 --> 0:14:51.320 to groom these uh talented kids, and so uh Barry 0:14:51.320 --> 0:14:53.040 felt as though it would be a good idea, and 0:14:53.080 --> 0:14:56.640 they opened up a uh artist development right across the 0:14:56.640 --> 0:15:00.560 street from uh Hitsville. We had to be there when 0:15:00.720 --> 0:15:02.640 uh it was time for us to rehearse from ten 0:15:02.680 --> 0:15:05.320 in the morning toil five to six o'clock in the evening. 0:15:05.680 --> 0:15:08.200 And it was headed by the late Great Charlie Atkins, 0:15:08.400 --> 0:15:11.520 uh the late Great Maurice King who was our vocal coach, 0:15:11.560 --> 0:15:14.600 and Charlie was our choreographer. Johnny Allen who would be 0:15:14.680 --> 0:15:17.080 at the piano and you know, keeping us everything, uh 0:15:17.120 --> 0:15:21.440 you know a theoretical musically uh correct and uh they 0:15:21.520 --> 0:15:25.640 sat down and they would tell us how to really 0:15:25.760 --> 0:15:27.800 carry ourselves. You know, it's one thing to have all 0:15:27.800 --> 0:15:30.040 the talent in the world. But if that's one thing 0:15:30.080 --> 0:15:32.320 I hate, and I'm always trying to be cognizant of it. 0:15:32.600 --> 0:15:34.680 I hate for artists get on. Uh you know do 0:15:34.800 --> 0:15:37.640 INVI well them now do dudes? And you know, don't 0:15:37.680 --> 0:15:41.000 talk correctly. They said, you guys need to know how 0:15:41.000 --> 0:15:42.640 to talk. You know, of course the world to be 0:15:42.680 --> 0:15:47.040 watching you. And they told this thing like four things. 0:15:47.080 --> 0:15:50.880 Maurice King said, don't get involved with you can never 0:15:50.960 --> 0:15:56.080 tell nobody about how they spend their money, religion, Uh, 0:15:56.120 --> 0:15:59.120 who they make love to? And it's the four when 0:15:59.160 --> 0:16:03.880 night politics that I said, politics that so and We've 0:16:03.880 --> 0:16:06.160 had that occasion to come up and I I'm so 0:16:06.280 --> 0:16:09.200 glad that I had that kind of knowledge being taught 0:16:09.240 --> 0:16:12.080 at Motown, you know. So. But they really, you know, 0:16:12.120 --> 0:16:14.400 put a lot into us because they were grooming us 0:16:14.440 --> 0:16:17.240 to go come to the Copa Cabana in the smart rooms. 0:16:17.440 --> 0:16:19.520 So we would have to rehearse from ten in the 0:16:19.560 --> 0:16:21.880 morning to six in the evening and it paid off 0:16:21.920 --> 0:16:24.080 because you know, I look at a lot of the 0:16:24.120 --> 0:16:28.200 earlier films and I can see where the proper presentation 0:16:28.360 --> 0:16:30.760 and how to carry ourselves and how to present ourselves 0:16:30.760 --> 0:16:33.080 in the sense of speaking interviews and what have you. 0:16:33.440 --> 0:16:35.680 So it is one of the only company I believe 0:16:35.720 --> 0:16:38.080 that will that they ever had, that that will never 0:16:38.160 --> 0:16:39.440 ever be another Motown. 0:16:44.200 --> 0:16:47.400 So would you guys, I know that, at least in 0:16:47.440 --> 0:16:51.440 the sixties, to play the Coopa was like the dream, Yes, 0:16:52.880 --> 0:16:57.200 but similar to how Sam Cook would do it, Like 0:16:57.240 --> 0:16:59.600 if you were playing the Black Venue, then he did 0:16:59.640 --> 0:17:02.720 the sure enough get down, yeah, you know, sweat off 0:17:02.760 --> 0:17:05.640 my brow right right right, rebel rousing show. But if 0:17:05.640 --> 0:17:08.639 at the Copa, then shooting time. So would you guys 0:17:08.640 --> 0:17:11.680 have dual shows depending on who the audience was. No, 0:17:12.720 --> 0:17:16.760 so even Mellow Mood Temptations would play the Apollo to 0:17:16.960 --> 0:17:18.680 that after. 0:17:18.520 --> 0:17:21.320 We open up at the Copa, because we hold all 0:17:21.359 --> 0:17:24.080 the existing records at the Copa, we went to the 0:17:24.119 --> 0:17:26.919 Apollo and we opened up with Hello, Young Lovers, I 0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:28.200 really love yes. 0:17:28.520 --> 0:17:39.560 And it worked it yes, yes, So it was almost 0:17:39.640 --> 0:17:42.680 like a job. Well, I saw Michael Jackson's I D card, 0:17:42.760 --> 0:17:44.879 So you guys would have to have these ID cards 0:17:44.920 --> 0:17:47.400 at Motown or or at Hitsville. 0:17:47.880 --> 0:17:50.560 Not really so they so they gave them out, but 0:17:50.800 --> 0:17:53.960 you know, yeah, and then we they knew who we were. 0:17:54.040 --> 0:17:57.040 You know, if we wanted to walk through whatever department does, 0:17:57.480 --> 0:17:59.480 what's happening and temp y'all back in town? You know, 0:17:59.560 --> 0:18:02.520 so it would was nowhere real who you Yeah? Right? 0:18:03.040 --> 0:18:07.360 So how many hours a day would you guys? Uh 0:18:07.560 --> 0:18:11.800 RaSE verse? And how how did Charlie find that much 0:18:11.880 --> 0:18:15.120 time to devote to each of the acts because he 0:18:15.160 --> 0:18:18.480 was he literally was doing everyone from the sixties and 0:18:18.480 --> 0:18:20.840 the seventies, Yeah, and coming up with these ideas like 0:18:20.880 --> 0:18:22.560 what was his creative process too? 0:18:23.040 --> 0:18:25.639 You know? I tell you when I first became away 0:18:25.680 --> 0:18:31.440 of Charlie's uh choreography, the Cadillacs and Detroit where they 0:18:31.560 --> 0:18:35.840 came to Detroit. Man, Now you know Radio City is 0:18:35.880 --> 0:18:38.760 the largest indoor theater in America. Fox did in Detroit 0:18:38.880 --> 0:18:41.560 is the second to see five thousand people going crazy 0:18:41.600 --> 0:18:44.359 over with five guys are going on the stage. And 0:18:44.440 --> 0:18:46.320 I said, that's what I want to do. Now. I 0:18:46.359 --> 0:18:49.080 was about sixteen years old. So one day I met 0:18:49.119 --> 0:18:51.680 one of the cadillacts outside of the Fox, and I 0:18:51.720 --> 0:18:54.240 asked him how did they do all that? Who told 0:18:54.280 --> 0:18:56.040 him that? And he said, well, young brother, you know, 0:18:56.040 --> 0:18:57.680 if you should ever want to do what we're doing, 0:18:57.760 --> 0:19:01.880 look for a young man named Charlie Atkins. Nineteen sixty four, 0:19:01.920 --> 0:19:04.439 we were at the Howard Theater were Gladys Knight and 0:19:04.680 --> 0:19:08.879 a big act. I run out of acts and Charlie 0:19:08.920 --> 0:19:11.760 was there and I said, oh my goodness, that's Charlie 0:19:11.760 --> 0:19:14.240 Atkins and sat and talked with him, and he showed me. 0:19:14.280 --> 0:19:16.760 I still remember the first move. He said, if I 0:19:16.800 --> 0:19:18.360 had you guys, don't the way you do the things 0:19:18.359 --> 0:19:19.560 you do, I'll show you what I would do. And 0:19:19.600 --> 0:19:21.840 he got them, did move and opened his arms and 0:19:21.960 --> 0:19:24.800 there I said, man, But Paul Williams was our choreographer 0:19:24.920 --> 0:19:28.080 of the temps. But they would work it out systematically, 0:19:28.160 --> 0:19:31.199 you know, for the hours they would have, like our 0:19:31.240 --> 0:19:35.080 attempts you all would have from like one o'clock to four, 0:19:35.880 --> 0:19:38.000 and then from four to five the supremes would come in, 0:19:38.200 --> 0:19:40.480 you know. So they had it systematically worked out where 0:19:40.720 --> 0:19:42.880 he would give all the acts that needed to come 0:19:42.920 --> 0:19:46.600 into Motown for that sending amount of time to do it. 0:19:47.080 --> 0:19:49.000 But we had to be there damn there every day. 0:19:49.280 --> 0:19:50.720 I mean it was like being in school. So it 0:19:50.840 --> 0:19:52.240 was worth Oh yeah, it worked. 0:19:53.040 --> 0:19:59.240 So touring with the with the Hitsville Review described to 0:19:59.280 --> 0:20:05.880 our listeners the difference between below the Mason Dixon Line 0:20:05.920 --> 0:20:10.359 touring down south as opposed to doing a show of 0:20:10.400 --> 0:20:12.320 Los Angeles or or was it the same? 0:20:12.520 --> 0:20:14.399 Just no, no, it was different. 0:20:15.359 --> 0:20:18.000 So did you dread? Did you guys dread going down south? 0:20:18.200 --> 0:20:20.480 Not really, because we knew we had fans that wanted 0:20:20.520 --> 0:20:23.400 to see us because our record was breaking out all 0:20:23.440 --> 0:20:27.240 over the you know, America. But you can feel a 0:20:27.320 --> 0:20:30.120 different kind of when chill factor when you got down 0:20:30.200 --> 0:20:33.960 in certain parts of the South. Like I'm from Texas 0:20:34.320 --> 0:20:39.440 and so we were on a Henry Wynn tour who 0:20:39.600 --> 0:20:42.520 was the own of the Royal Peacock in Atlanta, Georgia, 0:20:42.560 --> 0:20:44.879 so he would always have these big rock and roll shows. 0:20:45.280 --> 0:20:48.159 So we got off the bus in Texas and we 0:20:48.200 --> 0:20:51.240 wanted to eat, get something neat, And when we walked 0:20:51.240 --> 0:20:55.000 into this restaurant, white guy said, oh, we don't serve 0:20:55.080 --> 0:20:57.560 and he used the N word and we said we 0:20:57.560 --> 0:21:05.080 don't eat him. You know, we had to find a 0:21:05.119 --> 0:21:07.000 place that we could go and uh, you know that 0:21:07.040 --> 0:21:08.280 would feed us. You know. 0:21:08.520 --> 0:21:12.200 So did you guys use that travel guide? Yeah, with 0:21:12.320 --> 0:21:14.760 green book, Yeah, the Green book, the travel guy that 0:21:15.800 --> 0:21:19.960 lets black artists and black travelers down south know what 0:21:20.040 --> 0:21:21.320 restaurants are, say or what. 0:21:22.119 --> 0:21:24.320 Now, we never did. We just it was a different 0:21:24.400 --> 0:21:26.440 kind of network, you know, because we would find out 0:21:26.440 --> 0:21:28.639 where to go. There were people that, like say and 0:21:28.720 --> 0:21:32.080 said in his book, that would house us as black artists, 0:21:32.119 --> 0:21:34.679 you know, because a lot of hotels wouldn't take us, 0:21:34.720 --> 0:21:36.959 you know, because we were black. So there were certain 0:21:37.240 --> 0:21:39.720 homes and places down there that would, you know, let 0:21:39.800 --> 0:21:41.480 us stay and feed us and what have you. 0:21:41.600 --> 0:21:43.600 Plus you had you also had white people on the 0:21:43.600 --> 0:21:45.240 bus as well. So if it was a case of 0:21:45.320 --> 0:21:49.600 getting to go order of dissions without you guys having 0:21:49.640 --> 0:21:50.080 to go in. 0:21:50.560 --> 0:21:54.680 Like not on our bus. Real all blackness really yeah? 0:21:55.160 --> 0:21:59.840 Wow yeah, yep, Yeah, that's what we were saying. 0:22:00.040 --> 0:22:01.320 I needed a guide or something. 0:22:01.480 --> 0:22:03.760 Yeah. Well we had the best guy in the world. 0:22:04.119 --> 0:22:05.679 God amen. 0:22:05.880 --> 0:22:07.000 He wrote us through all that. 0:22:07.400 --> 0:22:09.720 What was the what was the city the one city 0:22:09.800 --> 0:22:12.960 or state that you dreaded going to, at least in 0:22:12.960 --> 0:22:15.640 that period in the in the mid sixties early sixties. 0:22:15.680 --> 0:22:18.960 Wow, I don't get in trouble. But Mississippi was Mississippi. 0:22:18.960 --> 0:22:21.600 God damn that was here, y'all. 0:22:21.600 --> 0:22:28.600 I mean yeah, but uh, we were in Columbia, South Carolina, 0:22:29.320 --> 0:22:33.919 nineteen sixty four and place was rocking. They had a 0:22:34.000 --> 0:22:38.479 rope right down the center of the auditorium, Blacks on 0:22:38.480 --> 0:22:42.600 one side, whites on the other. So we were singing 0:22:42.640 --> 0:22:44.440 and saying, man, this ship ain't cool, you know, and 0:22:44.520 --> 0:22:50.640 say Okay. We came back, same venue, same city next year. 0:22:50.880 --> 0:22:55.040 That next year there was no rope, black and white 0:22:55.520 --> 0:23:01.320 sitting side by side, booty banging, high fiving and having fun. 0:23:01.480 --> 0:23:03.760 If it wasn't for the sweat that we were sweating, 0:23:03.800 --> 0:23:06.439 you would have seen five guys on stage crying the 0:23:06.520 --> 0:23:07.040 power of. 0:23:07.000 --> 0:23:09.000 Music, were y'all? 0:23:09.040 --> 0:23:11.119 Then after that moment, because they showed up in the 0:23:11.200 --> 0:23:13.439 in the series too. But after that moment, did it change? 0:23:13.640 --> 0:23:14.399 Uh in the. 0:23:14.400 --> 0:23:16.800 Sense of groupies as well, because it was it now 0:23:16.920 --> 0:23:19.080 safe to have like groupies of all colors. 0:23:19.400 --> 0:23:20.720 Like did you see the difference in that? 0:23:22.200 --> 0:23:23.840 Well, what the group is back there? 0:23:24.359 --> 0:23:25.360 I mean, how did that work? 0:23:25.440 --> 0:23:29.440 Like when the uh, you have to be very cautious, 0:23:29.600 --> 0:23:32.919 cautious do that? You know? Uh, we always pretty much 0:23:32.920 --> 0:23:36.320 stayed within our color line, you know, because so we 0:23:36.440 --> 0:23:39.680 knew how if you did that, like Chuck Berry said, 0:23:39.720 --> 0:23:42.360 he did that, he hain't got no, we wasn't getting there. 0:23:43.480 --> 0:23:45.920 No no, no, no no no. I am not going 0:23:45.960 --> 0:23:48.080 to the gray Ball Hotel. You know, so. 0:23:50.359 --> 0:23:52.000 Nice Gray Bard damn. 0:23:53.520 --> 0:23:55.800 Oh, I love it. I've been told you you should 0:23:55.800 --> 0:23:58.520 do an older sism because that's the way my head done. 0:23:59.400 --> 0:24:08.160 Excuse me, what the hell is a ring? Hey, Shelley, 0:24:08.200 --> 0:24:10.000 I'll call you back. It's my manager. I'll call you back. 0:24:10.040 --> 0:24:14.400 Jail shall we still okay? Yeah, see you later, gone. 0:24:14.400 --> 0:24:15.840 See you later, taking. 0:24:17.960 --> 0:24:20.359 Shall He's been the temptatious manager since the beginning correct, 0:24:20.440 --> 0:24:23.600 nineteen sixty six. That's well, that's amazing. 0:24:23.840 --> 0:24:26.440 Yeah, he's getting ready to be eighty years old. 0:24:26.600 --> 0:24:28.320 And still going strong, still sharpens. 0:24:28.440 --> 0:24:31.280 Yeah, yeah, he'll be uh at the play. He's coming 0:24:31.320 --> 0:24:35.359 here because the stage temptations they are already rehearsing now okay, 0:24:35.400 --> 0:24:37.119 and I just talked with a couple of them. So 0:24:37.160 --> 0:24:39.920 he's coming in to sit and watch that and make 0:24:39.960 --> 0:24:41.399 sure everything is going correct. 0:24:41.520 --> 0:24:46.320 It's amazing. So when you when you guys uh got 0:24:46.359 --> 0:24:51.320 to the late sixties and was easing into your Psychedelic phase. Sure, 0:24:52.480 --> 0:24:56.320 I guess it starts with the Cloud nine record. Well, 0:24:56.359 --> 0:24:59.640 first of all, the addition of is that when Dennis 0:24:59.640 --> 0:25:00.720 made his debut with the group. 0:25:00.840 --> 0:25:05.600 Yeah, yeah, uh, Cloud and Iron came about gambling. Huff 0:25:05.960 --> 0:25:08.760 was a friend of mine. Him and I were talking 0:25:09.040 --> 0:25:12.439 Warwick Hotel right up the road. So as him and 0:25:12.440 --> 0:25:16.240 I were talking, uh, we heard this boom boom boom too, 0:25:17.480 --> 0:25:20.199 So it stopped. We stopped and said, uh, who the 0:25:20.200 --> 0:25:21.919 hell is that you know with that? Cause it was 0:25:21.960 --> 0:25:24.919 so different. So we listened and the guy said I 0:25:24.960 --> 0:25:28.040 was Sliding the Family Stone. So went back to Detroit. 0:25:28.080 --> 0:25:30.840 Now Norman Woodfield had recorded Ain't too Proud to Bey, 0:25:31.280 --> 0:25:33.199 Please Return your Love? I wish you would range. So 0:25:33.280 --> 0:25:35.760 we were doing the ballots and what have you. So 0:25:35.880 --> 0:25:38.240 when we came back to Detroit, Norman and I we 0:25:38.280 --> 0:25:40.560 grew up together because he played tambourine on my first 0:25:40.640 --> 0:25:43.480 hit with John Mae Matthews. So I asked you, Norman, 0:25:43.480 --> 0:25:45.560 I said, Norman, have you heard this group called Slide 0:25:45.560 --> 0:25:49.520 the Family Stone? And Norman was very cocky. No, man, 0:25:49.520 --> 0:25:53.240 I ain't hurt. No damn Slide. I said, well you 0:25:53.240 --> 0:25:55.400 should check them out, man, because they're doing something that 0:25:55.640 --> 0:25:58.919 we should probably uh check out because we were letting 0:25:59.160 --> 0:26:02.920 uh David go with the time so normal, no, no, none, 0:26:03.240 --> 0:26:05.560 you know, he did all that A Wolf and the Ghetto. 0:26:05.640 --> 0:26:07.119 So we went out of town, came back in. He 0:26:07.160 --> 0:26:11.280 had recorded the track to Cloud nine. I said, oh, alright, 0:26:11.520 --> 0:26:13.840 now he used it N word O man, let's go 0:26:13.880 --> 0:26:16.680 ahead and record this year. And we went in and recorded. 0:26:16.880 --> 0:26:20.440 Now we were spoiled because most cases when we would 0:26:20.640 --> 0:26:23.000 record any of our records, like the Way You Do Things, 0:26:23.040 --> 0:26:24.680 you do My Girl and what have you, or it 0:26:24.800 --> 0:26:26.760 just run up the charts and just graw from R 0:26:26.800 --> 0:26:29.359 and B right on to pop. So when they released 0:26:29.400 --> 0:26:32.919 Cloud nine, uh, it was spooky, you know, because we 0:26:32.960 --> 0:26:35.119 had gotten so used to having hits jump right on 0:26:35.160 --> 0:26:37.760 the charts right away. So about a week and a half, 0:26:38.400 --> 0:26:42.200 two weeks all but almost three we're gonna say, oh 0:26:42.280 --> 0:26:45.639 my god, Yeah, I said, oh damn we did. We 0:26:45.680 --> 0:26:48.640 didn't dropped on this one motown call. He said, well 0:26:48.640 --> 0:26:51.200 they finally took off, you know. And I guess our 0:26:51.280 --> 0:26:54.679 fans were saying, what the hell did the Temptations do? 0:26:54.800 --> 0:26:56.840 This is so different cause we were just coming off 0:26:56.880 --> 0:26:59.879 for hire to please return your love yeah, and uh 0:27:00.320 --> 0:27:04.760 so you know, Skyrocket and we got the first Grammy 0:27:05.560 --> 0:27:08.240 for the Tams in Motown and that was nineteen sixty eight, 0:27:08.480 --> 0:27:11.840 and that was Dennis's first big hit with the Tams. 0:27:11.960 --> 0:27:16.239 Time Out. Yes, Motown's first Grammy in nineteen sixty eight. Yes, 0:27:16.280 --> 0:27:19.840 so they weren't the Grammys. Weren't that? I mean the 0:27:19.920 --> 0:27:20.600 number one record? 0:27:20.720 --> 0:27:25.119 Like what the fuck? That's what you gotta figure it, 0:27:26.280 --> 0:27:28.080 That's all right, gets old. 0:27:28.600 --> 0:27:31.480 You gotta figure out, like records like South Pacific and 0:27:31.720 --> 0:27:34.720 the Mind of Bob Newheart was like number one, Like 0:27:34.840 --> 0:27:38.280 those records were number one in the sixties, like the Beatles. 0:27:38.720 --> 0:27:41.000 The Beatles don't have a Grammy. Yeah, I don't think that. Yeah, 0:27:41.000 --> 0:27:45.280 the Beatles on Wow. So it's just like, yeah, early 0:27:45.320 --> 0:27:50.160 seventies when like, yeah, semi inclusive, you know. Yeah, but yeah, 0:27:50.200 --> 0:27:55.640 that's that's that is crazy to know that. But with Okay, 0:27:55.720 --> 0:27:58.520 I'm glad you brought that up because I always wanted 0:27:58.560 --> 0:28:04.760 to know one. Were you guys even aware or at 0:28:04.840 --> 0:28:06.840 least Norman? I think it was more to Norman than 0:28:06.920 --> 0:28:09.679 less to you guys. But were you guys even aware 0:28:10.960 --> 0:28:17.560 of sly Stones kind of casual flip off on high 0:28:17.560 --> 0:28:20.080 Fun the Summertime to you guys, oh. 0:28:19.920 --> 0:28:22.399 Somewhat yeah, like what did you guys? 0:28:22.480 --> 0:28:24.720 Do you guys know the story about it? Okay? So 0:28:25.440 --> 0:28:31.600 Roses parts of Hot Fun and Summerstime was basically Sly like, 0:28:32.080 --> 0:28:35.639 I we invented the breakdown, the boo boo breakdown and 0:28:35.800 --> 0:28:40.240 you know, like just bucking a little shot. I never 0:28:40.320 --> 0:28:44.120 knew that. But it was aimed at Norman. But did 0:28:44.120 --> 0:28:46.680 he did he ever respond? Did he ever meet Sly 0:28:46.840 --> 0:28:47.200 or do you know? 0:28:47.200 --> 0:28:48.720 Not that I know of, I don't know if he 0:28:48.800 --> 0:28:53.920 ever met Baker. So no, I don't. He never mentioned 0:28:53.960 --> 0:28:54.320 it to me. 0:28:54.360 --> 0:28:58.080 Okay, Okay, Now I've always been curious about that because 0:28:58.160 --> 0:29:01.520 I think Sly like finally revealed it, like maybe fifteen 0:29:01.560 --> 0:29:11.560 years ago. But as far as h Norman Whitfield's productions 0:29:12.040 --> 0:29:21.400 and the heavy militancy, militant message of the group far 0:29:21.440 --> 0:29:24.640 away from wanting to be at the copa And you know, 0:29:25.360 --> 0:29:28.320 how did you guys manage to convince Barry Gordy that 0:29:28.320 --> 0:29:30.400 that's the direction of the group. Like a song like 0:29:31.080 --> 0:29:34.400 Run Charlie Run, which speaks of white flight in the 0:29:34.440 --> 0:29:40.840 most explicit terms possible, like how was how did Barry. 0:29:40.520 --> 0:29:44.000 Take that, you know what quest We were having so 0:29:44.080 --> 0:29:47.920 many hit records with Norman that when we made the 0:29:47.960 --> 0:29:51.280 transition from the Ballots and you know, straight up on 0:29:51.440 --> 0:29:55.200 b on Win to Cloud nine, Norman told me one day, 0:29:55.200 --> 0:29:58.360 he said, you know otis baringhim. Don't even bother us 0:29:58.400 --> 0:30:02.040 anymore about quantity control. Because every Friday they would have 0:30:02.120 --> 0:30:04.960 what they call call it the control everything that was 0:30:05.000 --> 0:30:07.280 recorded during the week. They would sit down at the 0:30:07.320 --> 0:30:10.400 end of the week and listen at and say, yeah, nay, 0:30:10.520 --> 0:30:12.040 what a man, I think this needs to be a 0:30:12.080 --> 0:30:14.800 little more heavy bassed and not too much too much 0:30:14.800 --> 0:30:17.120 of that. You know, they do all that kind of critiquing, 0:30:17.600 --> 0:30:21.400 and so Norman would be part of that. You know, 0:30:21.400 --> 0:30:23.160 he would be in there because he was one of 0:30:23.200 --> 0:30:26.000 the producers. But you know, we were having so many 0:30:26.080 --> 0:30:29.200 hit records with the Norman and that they didn't never 0:30:29.240 --> 0:30:31.800 bother us about whatever we would come up with. Because 0:30:31.840 --> 0:30:35.320 when Norman came up with that song run Charlie, run, huh, 0:30:35.360 --> 0:30:37.400 the niggas will come And I said, Norman, you got 0:30:37.440 --> 0:30:41.640 to be kidding. Yeah, But that was Norman. He was 0:30:42.320 --> 0:30:45.160 that kind of creative person outside of the box. 0:30:45.440 --> 0:30:49.600 Were you guys at all confused about his like, I 0:30:49.720 --> 0:30:53.040 know that he was trying to as a producer, present 0:30:53.120 --> 0:30:57.440 the cinematic scope of you know, have a lot of 0:30:57.680 --> 0:31:01.200 drama and his music, so songs like Masterpiece will let 0:31:01.320 --> 0:31:04.440 six seven minutes go by before the vocals even start, 0:31:05.240 --> 0:31:08.280 which which is unprecedented. I mean now it's standard standard, 0:31:08.360 --> 0:31:11.320 but back then it was like I didn't even know 0:31:11.400 --> 0:31:14.400 that Masterpiece had lyrics that like, I just assumed that 0:31:14.440 --> 0:31:15.719 the whole thing was an instrumental. 0:31:15.920 --> 0:31:18.240 I'll tell you some questions. It's very interesting that you 0:31:18.280 --> 0:31:22.280 should bring that up, because that was the song that 0:31:22.440 --> 0:31:25.880 made me say, oh, we gotta leave Norman. One. We 0:31:25.880 --> 0:31:30.920 were over in our straight on that Belgium, so they 0:31:30.960 --> 0:31:34.000 sent me a breakdown of what was happening, excuse me, 0:31:34.840 --> 0:31:39.600 and the article said that Norman would field singers. We 0:31:39.760 --> 0:31:46.520 all of us, Wow, wait, the Norman would feel singers. 0:31:46.520 --> 0:31:52.240 And it was about Masterpiece. Boy. I mean, I was 0:31:52.280 --> 0:31:54.520 so damn mad I called and said what. So when 0:31:54.560 --> 0:31:56.800 we got back to Detroit, I told Bear, I said, 0:31:56.800 --> 0:31:59.920 we gotta let Norman go because when you listen at 0:31:59.920 --> 0:32:02.440 me the piece, it's just only a little small segment 0:32:02.520 --> 0:32:05.240 of us singing and everything else was all this said, 0:32:05.240 --> 0:32:09.440 beautifully elongated strange horns and doom doom, doom doom all 0:32:09.480 --> 0:32:12.800 that I know. Uh, Mary said yes, yeah, you're right 0:32:12.840 --> 0:32:16.239 because we had such a great run with Norman. But 0:32:16.800 --> 0:32:19.560 you know when they started calling us the Norman Whitfield singers, 0:32:19.600 --> 0:32:21.640 I said, no, no, we didn't work all these years. 0:32:21.640 --> 0:32:25.240 It's hard to lose our identity. Yeah, just that quick. 0:32:25.600 --> 0:32:28.040 And but that's the song that made me call and 0:32:28.080 --> 0:32:30.880 said we gotta go and Berry uh there again was 0:32:30.920 --> 0:32:33.040 always there for Melvin and myself. And that was the 0:32:33.040 --> 0:32:35.880 song that was the uh changing thing from us leaving 0:32:35.880 --> 0:32:38.800 Norman after about eight or nine years of being with 0:32:38.840 --> 0:32:39.960 Norman what hits? 0:32:40.040 --> 0:32:42.520 But what was his theory for making these songs thirteen 0:32:42.640 --> 0:32:43.600 fourteen minutes. 0:32:43.400 --> 0:32:46.120 Look well normal? Is? You know? He was very innovative. 0:32:46.160 --> 0:32:48.840 He always wanted to be different from Smokey and uh 0:32:48.960 --> 0:32:53.320 Holland Dosja Holland and u Astro and Simpson. So he 0:32:53.600 --> 0:32:56.800 definitely always kind of after please Return your Love and 0:32:56.800 --> 0:32:59.640 when we ventured over to uh Cloud nine, he always 0:32:59.680 --> 0:33:02.760 started to think out of the box. So, like I said, 0:33:02.800 --> 0:33:07.320 the Run Charlie Run and uh uh the Cloud Nines 0:33:07.440 --> 0:33:11.480 and the Message from a Black Man that was just 0:33:11.600 --> 0:33:14.760 his way of expressing, uh hisself, of wanting to be different, 0:33:14.800 --> 0:33:17.480 and uh he just uh started thinking that way and 0:33:17.520 --> 0:33:19.440 he we could not get him to come back to 0:33:19.480 --> 0:33:21.600 the sweet Ballance. The only way we got him to 0:33:21.640 --> 0:33:25.560 do just uh my uh just my imagination. Well, I said, Norman, 0:33:25.760 --> 0:33:28.840 we out there, we hear what our found, our fans 0:33:28.880 --> 0:33:31.000 want us to do. You got to come on and 0:33:31.080 --> 0:33:33.480 get off of that side. Yeah, yeah, yeah, man. You 0:33:33.520 --> 0:33:37.800 know to know Norman very cocky, very gootistical, wonderful friend 0:33:37.800 --> 0:33:39.240 of mine. But you have to know how to deal 0:33:39.280 --> 0:33:42.280 with Norman. So he recorded Just My Imagination and that 0:33:42.440 --> 0:33:45.840 was the last record Eddie Kendricks did with us. And 0:33:45.920 --> 0:33:49.440 I so uh saw us on Ed Sullivan and we 0:33:49.440 --> 0:33:51.720 were singing just My Imagination, and I looked at it. 0:33:51.840 --> 0:33:54.200 I said, boy, I wonder if the world can look 0:33:54.240 --> 0:33:57.560 at uh our face and say, those guys don't look 0:33:57.600 --> 0:34:00.240 to be too happy. Mm oh, next time you see it. 0:34:00.520 --> 0:34:00.640 Uh. 0:34:00.680 --> 0:34:02.720 Of course they showed it the other night and we're 0:34:02.760 --> 0:34:05.600 sitting there singing on a little box and you know, 0:34:05.680 --> 0:34:09.320 looking just straight ahead, no emotion in your other than sadness, 0:34:09.800 --> 0:34:12.520 and uh but you know that's the way it goes 0:34:12.560 --> 0:34:16.000 sometimes when you're dealing with very uh talented people. I 0:34:16.080 --> 0:34:16.760 was asking how. 0:34:16.600 --> 0:34:18.880 Hard was it to to lose Eddie Kendricks as a 0:34:18.920 --> 0:34:22.600 singer because his I mean with at least with uh 0:34:22.880 --> 0:34:28.000 uh Dennis right and in his raspy baritone fitting but 0:34:28.760 --> 0:34:30.440 Eddie's falsetto is such a. 0:34:30.520 --> 0:34:33.680 Smooth Oh yeah, yeah. 0:34:32.880 --> 0:34:33.840 Was it hard to lose? 0:34:33.880 --> 0:34:36.200 And uh yeah, it was right. It was rough to 0:34:36.200 --> 0:34:39.440 lose uh Eddie because he was such a such a talent, 0:34:39.719 --> 0:34:43.480 you know, far as singing, and he's been no excuse me, 0:34:43.800 --> 0:34:45.880 not that as one of the best tennis group wise. 0:34:46.040 --> 0:34:49.759 Uh yeah, yeah, in the business, you know. But uh, 0:34:50.000 --> 0:34:52.960 I'm often asked about otis when you need to find somebody, 0:34:53.000 --> 0:34:56.160 what do you look for? I look for I don't 0:34:56.160 --> 0:34:58.960 look for talent first, so see that's the look I 0:34:59.000 --> 0:35:05.120 always would get. You don't what I look ahead and heart. 0:35:05.840 --> 0:35:08.200 You can have all the talent in the world. Excuse me, 0:35:08.239 --> 0:35:10.120 if your asshole of a person you're going to negate 0:35:10.160 --> 0:35:12.520 the talent, that's it. 0:35:13.080 --> 0:35:16.560 I can vouch for that. Actually personally, I actually have 0:35:16.640 --> 0:35:17.560 all the talent in the world. 0:35:21.600 --> 0:35:24.600 It's it's unfortunately but accurate. 0:35:25.080 --> 0:35:32.120 When you when you first of all, how how are 0:35:32.200 --> 0:35:36.040 the the exits and enteres. I mean, I'm sure everyone 0:35:36.080 --> 0:35:37.880 in their mind would like to think like everything was 0:35:37.920 --> 0:35:41.839 amicable and you know, guys, I just get my one 0:35:41.880 --> 0:35:48.319 month notice, Like how how how are they executed? And 0:35:48.360 --> 0:35:50.640 how fast do you have to find? Like what was 0:35:50.680 --> 0:35:52.920 the network? Like at least with the Internet, I can 0:35:52.960 --> 0:35:55.280 go on in search and search I got a drummer instantly. 0:35:55.360 --> 0:35:58.520 Yeah, but no, it wasn't like that well for us. 0:35:59.160 --> 0:36:02.439 We were at the Copa and at the time Paul 0:36:02.440 --> 0:36:05.160 Williams then they said it was meming Frank with myself 0:36:05.160 --> 0:36:08.360 and Eddie. Eddie and myself got into an argument. So 0:36:08.600 --> 0:36:11.880 we were doing two shows at the Copa and we 0:36:11.960 --> 0:36:15.680 stayed right around the corner, uh the sharing Netherlands. Uh, 0:36:15.880 --> 0:36:18.560 So I went back to the hotel until uh it 0:36:18.600 --> 0:36:20.439 was time to come back to do the second show. 0:36:21.360 --> 0:36:23.880 We ended up doing the show with four. Eddie just said, 0:36:24.120 --> 0:36:27.080 kissed the monkey on the boss spot, I'm gone and 0:36:27.160 --> 0:36:29.200 we had to do the show at the Copa with four, 0:36:29.920 --> 0:36:33.080 so it was no fellas. Uh after the show, I'm 0:36:33.080 --> 0:36:36.200 gonna leave, Eddie said, yeah, I had to deal with 0:36:36.239 --> 0:36:38.840 that kind of stuff. Oh, I mean I can go 0:36:38.920 --> 0:36:41.319 down in my home that is a friend of mine 0:36:41.360 --> 0:36:47.160 that did a beautiful portrait of twenty two different members. Uh, 0:36:47.239 --> 0:36:49.960 I got to ask her to do oh yeah nice 0:36:50.040 --> 0:36:53.640 twenty four whoa yeah, And I was standing in my 0:36:53.680 --> 0:36:56.799 living room and look from al all the way up 0:36:56.880 --> 0:37:00.319 until till now. But I got a add Willie and 0:37:00.800 --> 0:37:01.760 Larry they. 0:37:01.600 --> 0:37:04.080 Would be Was there ever a moment where you were like, okay, 0:37:04.280 --> 0:37:06.560 just I can't lose melt Like. Was there a person 0:37:06.600 --> 0:37:08.960 like I just can't lose Melvin, I just can't lose it. 0:37:09.200 --> 0:37:12.319 Just we Yeah, well I didn't want to lose mel. 0:37:12.360 --> 0:37:14.720 Well, right because in my mind, I'm like, who replaces Melvion? 0:37:14.800 --> 0:37:15.000 Yeah? 0:37:15.080 --> 0:37:18.440 Yeah, well, well you got lucky with Ray Davis, like 0:37:18.560 --> 0:37:23.640 if someone had to replace Melvin. Right when I found 0:37:23.680 --> 0:37:26.000 out that Ray Davis was replacement, I was like, oh 0:37:26.040 --> 0:37:28.279 my god, that's that's like because he always wanted to 0:37:28.280 --> 0:37:30.600 be to you know what I mean. So the fact 0:37:30.640 --> 0:37:31.399 that you got him. 0:37:32.560 --> 0:37:34.560 It was a short lived thing with Ray because he 0:37:34.600 --> 0:37:38.200 did for lovers only right, just one project, right, And 0:37:38.600 --> 0:37:41.400 I would always send whomever would join the group to 0:37:41.440 --> 0:37:43.719 the doctor. We said, you have to be checked out 0:37:43.760 --> 0:37:47.440 because we have been told that we are athletes that 0:37:47.600 --> 0:37:49.759 just sing, you know, because there are times were on 0:37:49.800 --> 0:37:51.239 the stage. We have to be on stage for hour 0:37:51.280 --> 0:37:53.960 and hair, you know, doing all that stuff you built 0:37:54.040 --> 0:37:58.920 up be in good shape. So Ray went to our doctor. 0:37:59.760 --> 0:38:02.319 So I always go and get mind your physical for 0:38:02.400 --> 0:38:06.200 what we're doing. So doctor Heygary said, well, old said, 0:38:06.600 --> 0:38:08.480 I got some bad news to tell you. You need 0:38:08.520 --> 0:38:11.600 to look for another bass singer. I said, really, don 0:38:11.680 --> 0:38:16.000 He said, he's not gonna be hit too long. Oh man, 0:38:16.719 --> 0:38:22.080 cancer and our raid didn't smoke, it didn't smoke, and 0:38:22.239 --> 0:38:24.200 true enough we had to let him go because of 0:38:24.360 --> 0:38:27.560 health reasons. Wow. Yeah. But the guy that we have now, 0:38:27.600 --> 0:38:32.200 Willy Green, and you know, people said you oldest have 0:38:32.320 --> 0:38:36.439 found someone almost the equivalents of Melvin England. Yea, yeah, 0:38:36.480 --> 0:38:38.040 Willie is a cold piece of work. 0:38:43.000 --> 0:38:45.440 You mentioned. You know, this whole thing is physical. You 0:38:45.440 --> 0:38:47.400 have to go to the doctors. How do you ODIs 0:38:47.560 --> 0:38:50.759 preserve your knees? I mean y'all performed on hard bottom shoes, yes, 0:38:50.760 --> 0:38:51.360 for decades. 0:38:51.719 --> 0:38:54.160 Well this year, right, kne Now, I've had surgery on 0:38:54.200 --> 0:38:57.520 both knees, you know, from years of dancing, you know, 0:38:57.600 --> 0:38:58.799 and then rehearsing, you know. 0:38:58.800 --> 0:39:02.280 Cause can you wear sneakers? Well, now still the hard Yeah. 0:39:02.200 --> 0:39:04.120 Yeah, I can. Well pretty much. The only thing that 0:39:04.280 --> 0:39:07.879 bother is like going up and coming downstairs. But other 0:39:07.880 --> 0:39:10.600 than that, when it's time to hit the stage, kiss 0:39:10.640 --> 0:39:12.240 the monkey on the balls, I'm there. 0:39:14.239 --> 0:39:23.200 So that's the ass right Wait, speaking of stage, Yeah, 0:39:23.680 --> 0:39:29.560 who invented the Temptations microphone stand? You know what? 0:39:29.800 --> 0:39:32.560 I have to give credit to David Ruffin when they 0:39:32.600 --> 0:39:35.120 were rehearsing us for the Coca Cabato and you know, 0:39:35.239 --> 0:39:41.000 Charlie Atkins Nonfontaine. So we around rehearsing and we had 0:39:41.000 --> 0:39:44.279 a moment just to sit and kick it. So David said, man, 0:39:44.360 --> 0:39:45.960 you know, if we really wanted to be different, you 0:39:46.000 --> 0:39:48.000 know what we should do. We should get a microphone 0:39:48.040 --> 0:39:49.960 that with four heads on it and we can stand 0:39:50.000 --> 0:39:53.400 around that. And so we just you know, kibbish and whatever. 0:39:53.560 --> 0:39:59.200 And uh Lanefontaine, who was helping us, uh do uriciography. 0:39:59.840 --> 0:40:01.839 Uh he said, oh, I know somebody can do that. 0:40:02.719 --> 0:40:05.880 I said really, he said yeah. I said, well, we 0:40:06.000 --> 0:40:09.120 drew up a thing with the pole and the fourheaded 0:40:09.160 --> 0:40:13.200 mic nne knew somebody at the Star Trek back then, 0:40:13.560 --> 0:40:16.440 somebody connected with Star Trek wow fixed the microphone up 0:40:16.440 --> 0:40:18.960 for us and I gave it to the Rock and 0:40:19.040 --> 0:40:22.840 Roll Hall of Fame nineteen ninety one. And the reason 0:40:22.920 --> 0:40:26.839 we stopped using it because it was unique for us 0:40:26.920 --> 0:40:28.799 moving right there in that spot. But we wanted to 0:40:28.800 --> 0:40:31.200 open up. We couldn't open up because the mic was 0:40:31.239 --> 0:40:33.640 just right there, and you know, so after a while 0:40:33.680 --> 0:40:36.239 we said, man, the mic is great and it has 0:40:36.400 --> 0:40:38.200 more on off his novelty and what have you. So 0:40:39.239 --> 0:40:41.600 we stopped using it and wanted to be spread out 0:40:41.640 --> 0:40:42.600 all more on stage. 0:40:42.640 --> 0:40:46.520 I always wanted to know. When I was twenty something, 0:40:46.520 --> 0:40:49.759 I had a particular light stand that was sort of 0:40:49.760 --> 0:40:52.239 like a boom mic that had two lights on it, right, 0:40:52.680 --> 0:40:55.240 but it would always fall over, and I always wondered 0:40:56.640 --> 0:40:59.040 how sturdy that microphone stand was. Like if you if 0:40:59.040 --> 0:41:01.960 one guy were to a and throw off the balance 0:41:01.960 --> 0:41:04.239 of it, has that microphone and stand ever fallen over? 0:41:04.280 --> 0:41:04.759 It never on. 0:41:05.840 --> 0:41:07.840 People did a great job of balancing it out with 0:41:07.880 --> 0:41:10.280 the four hits on it, and they hit the support 0:41:10.400 --> 0:41:13.359 system on the each mic that if I should move 0:41:13.440 --> 0:41:15.239 my mind it would until the. 0:41:15.320 --> 0:41:17.160 Others star trek. 0:41:19.320 --> 0:41:26.680 That's yeah, that's uh yeah, okay, it must be sturdy. 0:41:29.120 --> 0:41:36.719 I know that. In the mid seventies kind of a 0:41:36.800 --> 0:41:41.960 little bit after the song for you House Party Area era. 0:41:44.280 --> 0:41:47.600 You guys went to Atlantic. Mm hmmm, well I bear 0:41:47.640 --> 0:41:50.120 it back. I forget that album before it, but. 0:41:51.560 --> 0:41:55.640 Between was the first album with Atlantic. 0:41:56.200 --> 0:42:02.480 Look, but my question is, uh, how hard was it 0:42:02.560 --> 0:42:05.960 to leave Moti Weave an institution like Motown? And I 0:42:06.040 --> 0:42:08.120 know that, you know, the four Tops went to ABC 0:42:08.320 --> 0:42:11.840 for a second and some artist, the Jackson's went to 0:42:12.000 --> 0:42:14.160 C So everyone was sort of making it. 0:42:14.400 --> 0:42:16.919 I'll tell you something that's very and they didn't show 0:42:16.960 --> 0:42:21.080 this in the over. We still had time on our contract, 0:42:23.160 --> 0:42:25.800 you know. Barry said he got tired of running Motown 0:42:25.840 --> 0:42:27.960 on a day to day basis. It was beginning to 0:42:28.160 --> 0:42:31.920 weigh him down. So he started hiring like Abner who 0:42:32.000 --> 0:42:37.200 used to be with VJ Records. Then Abnue left and 0:42:37.280 --> 0:42:40.799 he had this guy named Barney Ellis that was running it. 0:42:41.600 --> 0:42:47.080 So we had a meeting, uh with Barney Ellis, h 0:42:48.719 --> 0:42:57.120 ral Selson, the attorney Shelley susaner Paz and attempts. So 0:42:57.920 --> 0:43:01.640 mister Ellis, I guess he was pissed off because we 0:43:01.680 --> 0:43:04.000 had the jackson in us had the same attorney aide 0:43:04.040 --> 0:43:08.040 summons A noted entertainment attorney, and he had engineered a 0:43:08.080 --> 0:43:10.920 hell of a contract for the Jackson's to sign with Epic. 0:43:12.440 --> 0:43:15.600 And so when we had the meeting with mister Ellis, 0:43:16.560 --> 0:43:19.480 it was a wind chi effect in the room. So 0:43:19.880 --> 0:43:24.279 he said he took his list. B Am. Soon as 0:43:24.360 --> 0:43:26.640 y'all get rid of mister Summers, the better things to 0:43:26.719 --> 0:43:30.680 be for you guys around here. The room would hush. 0:43:31.840 --> 0:43:36.520 I said, said, what soon as you get rid of 0:43:36.560 --> 0:43:38.600 mister Summers, things to be a lot better for you 0:43:38.680 --> 0:43:42.840 guys around here. I said, oh, no, we're not getting 0:43:42.920 --> 0:43:45.040 rid of our attorneys because you guys got somebody people 0:43:45.080 --> 0:43:46.920 around here that we don't like. But I bet you 0:43:46.960 --> 0:43:50.759 won't find them because we don't like them. So he 0:43:50.800 --> 0:43:53.120 pointed down at the end of the table to ralh Selston. 0:43:53.160 --> 0:43:56.600 He said, if Abe Summons called, don't you answer his call? 0:43:58.760 --> 0:44:03.240 I said, oh, Susanne said there Shelley sat there the group. 0:44:03.840 --> 0:44:06.360 So I said, well, I guess that's the end of 0:44:06.360 --> 0:44:10.359 the meeting. So we left. Marvin Gaye had to come 0:44:10.400 --> 0:44:13.600 in and have the same meeting with this guy. Susie 0:44:13.600 --> 0:44:15.960 I Ketta, who was our project manager. She called me. 0:44:16.040 --> 0:44:22.080 She said, oldest Marvin just left the meeting. Cried, I said, well, 0:44:22.080 --> 0:44:25.439 why do Barry have this guy running his axe off 0:44:25.560 --> 0:44:29.000 like this? So Barry was in a La Costa on 0:44:29.160 --> 0:44:33.120 vacation and he called me in and he said, oldis 0:44:33.800 --> 0:44:39.239 I am so sorry that that went down? Uh, what 0:44:39.320 --> 0:44:42.600 can we do to erectify it? I said, we want 0:44:42.640 --> 0:44:47.520 to leave Barry silence on the phone. He said, well, 0:44:48.600 --> 0:44:50.560 what kind of money can we get? I said, it's 0:44:50.560 --> 0:44:53.879 not about money, it's about respect. Now we don't wanna 0:44:53.880 --> 0:44:57.440 be here. So he was very sad in hear that. 0:44:57.600 --> 0:45:00.919 He said, all right, we'll work it out and we'll 0:45:01.360 --> 0:45:05.360 we'll get past this. And they worked it out. We 0:45:05.440 --> 0:45:09.000 left Motown and signed with uh uh, we're almost signed 0:45:09.000 --> 0:45:12.600 with CBS. But it was predicated on gambling hoof presenting 0:45:12.760 --> 0:45:16.879 uh producing us but yeah, whoa yeah, Now, well Kenny 0:45:16.920 --> 0:45:20.840 and I go back to doing the early sixties. Yeah yeah, 0:45:20.880 --> 0:45:23.160 oh yeah, I mean cause CBS was getting ready to 0:45:23.200 --> 0:45:24.640 get up out for a ton of money for us, 0:45:25.280 --> 0:45:27.680 you know. But Kenny told me, he said, oh this 0:45:27.920 --> 0:45:30.880 after I do the Jackson's cause he did, uh the Jackson, 0:45:31.080 --> 0:45:34.160 enjoy yourself, He said, no, I wanna concentrate on my 0:45:34.200 --> 0:45:36.680 own acts. He said, yeah, you know, I've always wanted 0:45:36.719 --> 0:45:41.279 to produced attempts, but uh, I'm just gonna concentrate on 0:45:41.360 --> 0:45:44.280 my axe. And I said, I'll be damn. I said, well, Kenny, 0:45:44.360 --> 0:45:46.400 I can't argue with you because if if this is 0:45:46.440 --> 0:45:48.640 what you wanna do, yeah, you gotta do what you 0:45:48.719 --> 0:45:53.120 have to do. And so Jerry Greenberg, who was the 0:45:53.120 --> 0:45:56.560 president of Atlantic Records, made a a wonderful offer, and 0:45:56.600 --> 0:45:58.520 so Ape Summons worked it out, and so we went 0:45:58.560 --> 0:45:59.600 to Atlantic Records. 0:45:59.680 --> 0:46:02.520 But then you guys have messed with I'm at urgan 0:46:02.600 --> 0:46:06.040 at all, Like I mean, was he oh, well, you 0:46:06.080 --> 0:46:08.720 know it was glad that Okay, so it wasn't hands 0:46:08.760 --> 0:46:09.280 on and. 0:46:09.480 --> 0:46:12.080 Yeah, yeah, oh yeah, he really wanted to snap. But 0:46:12.520 --> 0:46:15.160 Jerry Greenbery was the president of BAT at the time. 0:46:16.360 --> 0:46:18.600 So you're saying the leadership of Motown in the mid 0:46:18.640 --> 0:46:21.200 seventies sort of caused sourness something. 0:46:21.400 --> 0:46:23.279 Yeah, yeah, truth be told, shame the Devil. 0:46:23.360 --> 0:46:26.480 Yeah, wow, I'm learning all these. 0:46:26.880 --> 0:46:29.320 Truth the Devil a monkey on. 0:46:29.520 --> 0:46:31.040 Yeah, I'm learning. 0:46:30.800 --> 0:46:35.720 All I'm glad to know because I was. It's funny. 0:46:35.719 --> 0:46:37.000 I was in watching that series. 0:46:37.040 --> 0:46:39.720 I was like, so it's always been Sunshine and Roses 0:46:39.760 --> 0:46:42.279 with mister Gordy and the temptation that just was an 0:46:42.320 --> 0:46:43.359 odd well, you. 0:46:43.320 --> 0:46:45.880 Know for mister Gordon and us. Yeah, we've we pretty 0:46:45.920 --> 0:46:49.480 much always haven't had a wonderful long yeah, no relationship 0:46:49.600 --> 0:46:50.160 even today. 0:46:50.280 --> 0:46:52.080 And even in that part where you know you and 0:46:52.120 --> 0:46:54.759 they introduced Shelley. It's an interesting practice back then and 0:46:54.800 --> 0:46:56.480 I don't think, I guess it's not his practice now 0:46:56.480 --> 0:46:58.799 in the music industry where he introduced you guys to 0:46:58.880 --> 0:47:01.399 your manager right back then, right back then. 0:47:01.520 --> 0:47:05.600 At the beginning esther Gordy Barry's oldest sister was our manager. 0:47:06.239 --> 0:47:08.520 But I feel I guess he felt, yeah. 0:47:08.920 --> 0:47:13.759 He was all up in mister yeah my family, Yeah yeah, 0:47:13.840 --> 0:47:16.080 yeah yeah, but uh, I guess he felt as though 0:47:16.320 --> 0:47:17.960 he needed somebody that they could get us on their 0:47:18.040 --> 0:47:23.680 Sullivan's show when exposed us to Yeah, because he got 0:47:23.760 --> 0:47:27.600 us away from ABC Records and we signed with William 0:47:27.600 --> 0:47:30.719 Morris and that was a big bullhur behind us leaving 0:47:30.760 --> 0:47:34.719 ABC because she let well, like I said it. 0:47:34.680 --> 0:47:36.759 With some things that went down then. I won't go 0:47:36.880 --> 0:47:42.440 into too deep, but I've had a very interesting career settle. 0:47:42.600 --> 0:47:47.359 You guys return in eighty with uh power power Yeah right, 0:47:47.440 --> 0:47:52.120 and he so he he Barry Gordy produced that himself. 0:47:52.160 --> 0:47:56.480 For yes, he did. Barry sat on Power because we 0:47:56.480 --> 0:48:00.520 were at Atlantic and elvan de Barge. Excuse me, was 0:48:00.960 --> 0:48:03.600 the the bars were still there and uh he said, 0:48:04.080 --> 0:48:06.319 I knew you guys was coming back. I said, really, 0:48:06.320 --> 0:48:08.920 Bear he said, oh yeah, he said, I know. It 0:48:09.040 --> 0:48:11.560 was just amount of time, he said. I had worked 0:48:11.560 --> 0:48:14.439 there on this song Power, he said, but I did 0:48:14.480 --> 0:48:16.839 not have a group over here that could pull it off, 0:48:16.960 --> 0:48:20.720 like I knew the tenth Wood because he loved Melvin's power, 0:48:21.239 --> 0:48:23.160 that base. He loved Melvin's base. 0:48:25.160 --> 0:48:29.600 Yeah, that's seven minutes in a row man, that's right, right, Okay, 0:48:29.640 --> 0:48:31.960 how many tastes did that? Like? Was that a lot 0:48:32.000 --> 0:48:34.680 of cutting and face thing or he just just straight 0:48:34.960 --> 0:48:36.719 straight through? Wow? 0:48:37.000 --> 0:48:37.919 Straight through? 0:48:38.160 --> 0:48:39.640 That's hard. Yeah. 0:48:40.239 --> 0:48:43.719 Yeah, he got behind that might close his eyes and 0:48:43.719 --> 0:48:46.799 he would bowl his fists and he was there just 0:48:46.840 --> 0:48:50.760 like a metronome right in that pocket. And uh, Barris, 0:48:50.760 --> 0:48:53.920 I knew you guys were coming back, And uh we 0:48:54.000 --> 0:48:58.799 did Power two hundred thousand immediately right out the gate. 0:48:59.560 --> 0:49:05.280 It was a riot down in Florida. The stations across 0:49:05.320 --> 0:49:08.359 the country got off of it bigcause they didn't want 0:49:08.680 --> 0:49:11.200 the lyrics that were so powerful in power. 0:49:11.440 --> 0:49:11.720 Yeah. 0:49:11.840 --> 0:49:14.959 Yeah, they didn't want to incense it to go any further. 0:49:15.200 --> 0:49:19.000 And we were hot, you know, broken because the record 0:49:19.160 --> 0:49:21.800 was moving, it was going, but that incident down in 0:49:21.840 --> 0:49:24.600 Florida made made the dis job gets back up off 0:49:24.640 --> 0:49:27.879 of it because you know it was tenuous times even 0:49:27.920 --> 0:49:28.560 at that time. 0:49:29.440 --> 0:49:30.920 So was it your idea? 0:49:31.480 --> 0:49:31.760 Uh? 0:49:32.880 --> 0:49:35.200 I guess in eighty two, and I guess to commemorate 0:49:35.440 --> 0:49:38.200 the by that point, I don't know if it was 0:49:38.360 --> 0:49:41.879 twenty years or thirty, I don't know how long. When 0:49:41.880 --> 0:49:43.880 did you guys? You guys officially started in sixty or 0:49:43.920 --> 0:49:44.399 sixty two? 0:49:44.840 --> 0:49:45.800 What motown? 0:49:45.880 --> 0:49:46.080 Yeah? 0:49:46.120 --> 0:49:49.000 Sixty one. I have a contract in my home that 0:49:49.080 --> 0:49:49.720 my mother signed. 0:49:49.719 --> 0:49:52.680 Okay sixty one, So okay, so eighty two when the 0:49:52.800 --> 0:49:58.560 reunion alum happens, that's to commemorate the twentieth Whose idea 0:49:58.760 --> 0:49:59.000 was it? 0:49:59.080 --> 0:50:06.760 To broker the our fan base? I have a saying 0:50:06.760 --> 0:50:10.439 that I have since uh and been saying quite often 0:50:10.480 --> 0:50:12.239 a few people around me and say, oldest, I see 0:50:12.400 --> 0:50:16.040 what you mean when you said the world loves us, 0:50:17.200 --> 0:50:20.600 but we did not love ourself. We would let matter 0:50:21.160 --> 0:50:24.800 what shouldn't matter, drugs. I mean, I'm just under the 0:50:24.840 --> 0:50:26.840 way it is drugs. 0:50:28.280 --> 0:50:34.040 So it was. The reunion was sort of bittersweet. Yeah 0:50:34.800 --> 0:50:37.400 when if you guys tour behind that record or yes, 0:50:37.200 --> 0:50:41.640 yeah standing on the top. Yeah, we returned. Our first 0:50:41.760 --> 0:50:45.680 date was in Detroit, Michigan, at the Fisher Theater. David 0:50:45.760 --> 0:50:50.799 Ruffin came and he said, oldest, I promise you, I 0:50:50.840 --> 0:50:52.840 won't be doing all that crazy shit that I was 0:50:52.840 --> 0:50:55.160 doing before. I just want to get back in the group. 0:50:55.320 --> 0:50:58.640 I promise you I'm straight. Because for the I was 0:50:58.680 --> 0:51:00.600 the last man the whole lot, because I was saying, 0:51:00.920 --> 0:51:02.719 come on, bruh, let's do this yere. You know the 0:51:02.800 --> 0:51:05.000 fans want you were the last old day. I felt 0:51:05.000 --> 0:51:07.279 like it was your idea, like back. 0:51:07.200 --> 0:51:10.080 Here, cause I knew what they were doing, even when 0:51:10.080 --> 0:51:12.799 I had my my own set of temptations. Okay, yeah, 0:51:12.880 --> 0:51:14.600 cause I would see here there from time to time, 0:51:14.760 --> 0:51:18.920 and Paul he was already gone because Paul had passed, 0:51:19.040 --> 0:51:22.920 uh what seventy and seventy one? That about. But I 0:51:22.960 --> 0:51:25.480 knew what David was doing, I knew what Eddie was doing. 0:51:25.560 --> 0:51:27.800 And you know, and I I'm not sitting here denigrating 0:51:27.800 --> 0:51:29.560 these guys, cause I love him still. But you know, 0:51:29.600 --> 0:51:32.160 like I said, tell the truth, shame the devil. So 0:51:33.040 --> 0:51:35.920 even Kenny Gamma. We went to Philly and Kenny has 0:51:36.160 --> 0:51:40.000 always wanted to produce the TEMs, and uh Jimmy Bishop 0:51:40.080 --> 0:51:42.400 was the spearhead of trying to get it together. But 0:51:42.440 --> 0:51:44.880 I guess for whatever reason, Jimmy Bishop bowed out. 0:51:44.840 --> 0:51:47.320 Wow, Jimmy Bishop, that's like legendary name and uh the 0:51:47.640 --> 0:51:50.080 Philadelphia r Yeah. 0:51:50.160 --> 0:51:55.800 So uh anyway, we uh persevered and uh I said, alright, Melvin, 0:51:56.600 --> 0:51:59.840 let's do this. So we got together and we started 0:52:00.160 --> 0:52:04.440 arson and we got a very good show together. First day. 0:52:04.560 --> 0:52:08.600 Well we're broken in down and uh place in Texas 0:52:08.640 --> 0:52:12.719 to you know, the customary thing for us go off 0:52:12.719 --> 0:52:15.040 and break the act in off the beaten paths, so 0:52:15.120 --> 0:52:17.719 when we get on the shown of how visible road, 0:52:17.800 --> 0:52:21.000 we'd be tight. So when we cat got to Detroit 0:52:22.640 --> 0:52:30.359 Fisher Theater, people wrapped around the building and like I said, 0:52:30.400 --> 0:52:32.960 I'm not trying to integrate anybody. But time we got there, 0:52:33.719 --> 0:52:37.120 Ruffing was roughing. Yeah. 0:52:37.200 --> 0:52:40.680 Do you think that was a fear of his? Like 0:52:41.360 --> 0:52:45.879 what do you what's your assessment of not being able 0:52:45.960 --> 0:52:49.440 to let those demons demons go. I've at least in 0:52:49.440 --> 0:52:56.359 my particular field. I know that cats that that all 0:52:56.360 --> 0:52:58.040 they have to do is just step up to the 0:52:58.080 --> 0:53:00.960 plate and do what they gotta do. And but he 0:53:01.040 --> 0:53:01.319 had a. 0:53:01.239 --> 0:53:07.000 Crazy he's right, Yeah, yeah, it was kind of. 0:53:07.520 --> 0:53:11.560 But I always just wondered, like him not being able 0:53:11.600 --> 0:53:13.839 to get it together. I mean, obviously that stems from 0:53:13.840 --> 0:53:16.360 a fear. I don't know if that's survivor's guilt. I 0:53:16.360 --> 0:53:18.920 don't know if that's you know, like. 0:53:19.400 --> 0:53:24.080 Of course, you know how everybody can handle success. Success 0:53:24.080 --> 0:53:27.480 can be a strong athe for Djak, you know, And 0:53:27.520 --> 0:53:31.000 it's all I mean on the real set. There have 0:53:31.120 --> 0:53:33.440 been so many different parties for us throughout our career 0:53:33.480 --> 0:53:36.040 that we were in Detroit and I had to go 0:53:36.080 --> 0:53:39.040 off to myself and pinch myself. So I don't believe 0:53:39.080 --> 0:53:42.879 this year shit is really happening. I mean, all kind 0:53:42.920 --> 0:53:45.359 of doors was opening up to us. I mean all 0:53:45.400 --> 0:53:48.239 kinds of adulation, you know, women, you know, all kinds 0:53:48.239 --> 0:53:51.000 of things. You know that if you're not strong from within, 0:53:51.400 --> 0:53:53.880 oh yeah, it can go yeah, you know so, but 0:53:54.320 --> 0:53:56.040 we all handle success differently. 0:53:56.200 --> 0:53:58.719 But you also you always you mentioned like your mom 0:53:58.840 --> 0:53:59.920 signed your first contract. 0:54:00.160 --> 0:54:01.080 He had a foundation. 0:54:01.400 --> 0:54:04.200 Yeah, and I know briefly in the series they mentioned 0:54:04.239 --> 0:54:06.400 like David he said, he was like raised by a 0:54:06.440 --> 0:54:10.520 pimp and like he had all so in that foundation, 0:54:10.600 --> 0:54:12.440 and a lot of y'all had some good like even Melvin 0:54:12.600 --> 0:54:14.560 you can tell had like the foundation. 0:54:14.640 --> 0:54:17.560 His mother was yeah yeah. 0:54:17.560 --> 0:54:18.520 But the Ruffian did. 0:54:18.600 --> 0:54:18.719 Uh. 0:54:18.800 --> 0:54:21.480 He had had a very sordid life, you know, in 0:54:21.520 --> 0:54:24.759 the sense of uh yeah, uh little They called him 0:54:24.760 --> 0:54:28.320 at first little David Bush yeah, because he was er 0:54:28.520 --> 0:54:32.240 uh living with this guy named uh Eddie Bush, and 0:54:32.320 --> 0:54:35.799 so he took David under his arm wings and called 0:54:35.880 --> 0:54:38.120 him a little David Bush. And David had about six 0:54:38.239 --> 0:54:42.319 or seven singles before uh he joined the Thames and uh. 0:54:42.360 --> 0:54:44.920 I would see him at various record houses. And the 0:54:45.000 --> 0:54:47.080 brother was a cold piece of work, though I mean 0:54:47.120 --> 0:54:48.840 in the good sense. I mean David Ruffings throw that 0:54:48.920 --> 0:54:51.160 microphone up, spin around, dropped to his knees, and as 0:54:51.160 --> 0:54:53.520 the microphone came was coming down, he'd grab it and 0:54:53.760 --> 0:54:56.920 going into his act. So one day he said, oh this, 0:54:57.080 --> 0:54:59.840 I wanna sing with your group. And I was surprised 0:55:00.040 --> 0:55:02.719 cause I said, wait, wait, say back that train up, 0:55:02.800 --> 0:55:05.800 say it again, and he said, I wanna say it 0:55:05.840 --> 0:55:08.440 with your group. I said, boy, if you were to 0:55:08.520 --> 0:55:10.520 join us, we'd really be something else certain and he 0:55:10.600 --> 0:55:13.080 knew that we had a very strong reputation in Detroit 0:55:13.080 --> 0:55:15.319 as far as the group and doing what we do. 0:55:16.040 --> 0:55:19.600 And uh, so he joined the group in nineteen well 0:55:19.760 --> 0:55:22.560 sixty three when he started hanging with us. So it 0:55:22.600 --> 0:55:27.279 was six you know at the time. Because their Eddie, Paul, Melvin, Uh, 0:55:27.400 --> 0:55:32.400 David and and no Al and then David and we 0:55:32.520 --> 0:55:36.399 used to close the show would shout and uh, we're 0:55:36.440 --> 0:55:40.960 at this place called Chapis Lounge. And as we closed, 0:55:40.960 --> 0:55:43.839 they kept calling with us to come back. So we 0:55:43.880 --> 0:55:47.280 went back two more times and the third time, Uh 0:55:47.920 --> 0:55:50.799 they kept calling and uh, Al said, Man, we gotta 0:55:50.840 --> 0:55:53.680 go back. They keep calling us. So Paul said, man, 0:55:53.680 --> 0:55:55.200 what we gonna do. We can't keep going back there 0:55:55.200 --> 0:55:57.600 closing with shout. We've done it two times, you know, 0:55:57.640 --> 0:56:01.920 we gotta let it go. Al was drained and uh 0:56:02.520 --> 0:56:06.319 when Paul said no, we can't go back, Al said, 0:56:07.239 --> 0:56:10.960 and malf I'll hit you with this ball, right. And 0:56:11.160 --> 0:56:13.759 I was the only one that could could listen that 0:56:13.920 --> 0:56:16.320 I Al would listen to. I was just a little 0:56:16.320 --> 0:56:19.000 bit off time because when I I could read Al's eyes, 0:56:19.040 --> 0:56:22.160 his eyes eyes would get that kind of focused thing, 0:56:22.200 --> 0:56:24.680 I said, And by the time I tried to grab 0:56:24.680 --> 0:56:31.040 his arm right across Paul's note. I came out the 0:56:31.080 --> 0:56:33.040 club and leaned up against the door, came out of 0:56:33.080 --> 0:56:36.880 the dressingroom leaning up against the door, and Eddie, Melvin 0:56:36.920 --> 0:56:38.800 and Davis never was wrong, was wrong. They saw the 0:56:38.880 --> 0:56:41.279 look that I had on my face. I said, Al 0:56:41.480 --> 0:56:45.759 just opened up Paul's face. But check this out. Took 0:56:45.960 --> 0:56:49.120 Paul to the hospital. I said, well, you had to 0:56:49.200 --> 0:56:50.680 let Al go. I mean, Paul, were gonna have to 0:56:50.760 --> 0:56:53.960 let Al go. And no, no, don't don't do that. 0:56:54.200 --> 0:56:56.080 I feel we got we getting ready to make it. 0:56:56.320 --> 0:56:57.880 So I'm not gonna have that kind of fighting. And 0:56:58.000 --> 0:57:01.400 I said, we can have disagreements. I just thought his 0:57:01.480 --> 0:57:03.359 eyes was gone cause he hit him. Until the day 0:57:03.480 --> 0:57:06.120 Paul died, he had a scar right across the bridge's nose. 0:57:06.200 --> 0:57:09.759 M So we were at the Fox, and you know, 0:57:09.840 --> 0:57:12.120 like I said, Paul was the one that started us 0:57:12.239 --> 0:57:15.960 to be noted piocography. So Paul and Melbourne did this 0:57:16.040 --> 0:57:18.160 in moved where they would jump down and do the 0:57:18.160 --> 0:57:22.440 see boo the place that the Fox went crazy. So 0:57:22.480 --> 0:57:23.960 I said, hey, hell, come on, man, let's get a 0:57:23.960 --> 0:57:27.120 piece of action and all said, now, no, we're gonna 0:57:27.120 --> 0:57:30.160 stay back here with the pretty boys. And that's when 0:57:30.200 --> 0:57:32.640 I said, gotta let him go. Yep, gotta let him go. 0:57:33.320 --> 0:57:35.360 And when he came off, I said, you gotta go. 0:57:35.400 --> 0:57:39.480 Man entered David Ruffin and that's when the how the tempts, 0:57:39.800 --> 0:57:43.320 you know, the noted tempts became, Uh well, we are. 0:57:48.520 --> 0:57:52.880 Was there any interaction with uh EX members while they 0:57:52.880 --> 0:57:56.360 were on their solo ten years, like did you guys 0:57:56.360 --> 0:57:59.440 feel like a certain way about keep on trucking or 0:57:59.560 --> 0:58:02.560 or any of David ruff and stuff in the soul 0:58:02.640 --> 0:58:03.920 period or even oh. 0:58:03.800 --> 0:58:06.480 Well, I was happy to see that David and Eddie 0:58:06.960 --> 0:58:10.080 were able to still do you know, because very talented guys. 0:58:10.600 --> 0:58:14.400 Now My Whole World Ended? That was originally written for 0:58:14.440 --> 0:58:17.800 the Thames, okay, but Norman Whitfield, not Norman uh Harvey 0:58:17.800 --> 0:58:20.880 Fuqaha and Johnny Bristol. They could never get it to 0:58:20.960 --> 0:58:24.160 us because Norman Whitfield was a string of hits, stringer hits. 0:58:24.200 --> 0:58:27.919 So when David left, they put it on David. And 0:58:27.960 --> 0:58:31.160 that's the originals that's doing the background on My Whole 0:58:31.160 --> 0:58:35.080 World Ended? And uh well, Eddie, you know I knew 0:58:35.200 --> 0:58:37.760 Eddie would always be successful because he was such a 0:58:37.880 --> 0:58:42.160 unique uh talent saying wise, So Frank Wilson when he 0:58:42.280 --> 0:58:44.479 did tr uh keep on truck in and book it down, 0:58:44.680 --> 0:58:48.600 you know Edie was very, very uh success successful. 0:58:49.160 --> 0:58:52.520 Who in in your career as far as production is concerned, 0:58:52.600 --> 0:58:57.360 You guys worked with everyone from uh the Corporation to 0:58:58.000 --> 0:59:02.000 Normal Whitfield to Rick Change, Rick James il McKay, Yeah, 0:59:02.280 --> 0:59:05.520 Wind the Fire and all his cats, even what Benny 0:59:05.560 --> 0:59:08.000 Madeena even worked on the Reunion record. You ever seen 0:59:08.000 --> 0:59:08.440 his name there? 0:59:09.520 --> 0:59:09.920 Who? 0:59:11.280 --> 0:59:14.080 What is your what is your preferred? Not effective as 0:59:14.120 --> 0:59:16.880 far as who brought us the most hits? But who 0:59:17.440 --> 0:59:20.520 was your favorite producer to work with? As far as 0:59:20.560 --> 0:59:23.200 like who really understood the group? Who was pleasant to 0:59:23.240 --> 0:59:23.600 work with? 0:59:24.240 --> 0:59:27.600 I would have to say Smoke it first, Okay, Smoking 0:59:27.680 --> 0:59:31.720 being group singer. Smoking was always organized when he would 0:59:31.760 --> 0:59:34.320 bring us whatever song, the way you do the things 0:59:34.320 --> 0:59:37.640 you do my girls, since I lost my baby, he 0:59:37.720 --> 0:59:39.960 left the background harmonies up to us. He would show 0:59:40.040 --> 0:59:43.320 us the basic part of the song. But Smoking was 0:59:43.360 --> 0:59:48.640 always organized, easy to you know, work for record because 0:59:48.720 --> 0:59:51.640 when we did My Girl, how that came about? He 0:59:51.680 --> 0:59:53.560 came and saw us at the twenty grand, a noted 0:59:54.000 --> 0:59:57.360 club in Detroit, and after the show he came back. 0:59:57.440 --> 0:59:59.200 He was marveling on how great we were, and he 0:59:59.240 --> 1:00:00.840 looked at us and and then he looked at David. 1:00:00.880 --> 1:00:04.120 He said, I have a song for you and show 1:00:04.400 --> 1:00:08.120 us being young dum full of you know what, and 1:00:08.120 --> 1:00:10.080 he said, man, bring it on. We can sing anything. 1:00:10.400 --> 1:00:13.560 And we came here to the Pollow and we uh 1:00:13.640 --> 1:00:17.080 smoking him oh headline. We were co stars and field 1:00:17.120 --> 1:00:19.560 access on that. So in between the shows we would 1:00:19.640 --> 1:00:24.480 uh rehearse with Smoking and went back to Detroit after 1:00:24.520 --> 1:00:27.560 rehearsing with him for My Girl, and he put the 1:00:27.600 --> 1:00:32.200 background and the leason, and when Paul Riser came and 1:00:32.240 --> 1:00:35.800 added the strings and horns, Smoker was sitting at the console, 1:00:35.960 --> 1:00:39.160 you know, working the the boys, and uh, I said, Smoking, 1:00:39.280 --> 1:00:41.800 I don't know how big a record this is gonna become, 1:00:42.800 --> 1:00:45.440 but I think we got one on our hands. The 1:00:45.560 --> 1:00:49.440 record was recorded that fall of sixty four. They released 1:00:49.440 --> 1:00:55.520 it December twenty eighth, uh nineteen sixty four. We were 1:00:55.560 --> 1:00:59.760 at the Apollo February nineteen sixty five. Barry sent us 1:00:59.760 --> 1:01:03.920 at congratulating us. It's number one sold over me and Records. 1:01:04.320 --> 1:01:07.520 The Beatles sent us a telegram congratulating us, and I 1:01:07.560 --> 1:01:10.880 still have those uh telegrams at home now. But I 1:01:10.920 --> 1:01:13.400 always think back then, I said, I knew this song 1:01:13.520 --> 1:01:15.320 was gonna be something. I knew the song was good 1:01:15.400 --> 1:01:17.200 if at the you know, with the essence of us. 1:01:17.200 --> 1:01:19.480 But when Paul Riser added the stringer and the horns, 1:01:19.520 --> 1:01:22.479 it gave it a whole nother daylight and true enough, 1:01:22.680 --> 1:01:26.080 when we do that song today, it's like people growing 1:01:26.360 --> 1:01:28.640 up out of the ground like trees. They just started 1:01:28.640 --> 1:01:32.280 to stand up, and we made the mistake. Like years ago, 1:01:33.200 --> 1:01:35.880 record did what it was gonna do. So Paul was 1:01:35.920 --> 1:01:38.400 in charge of the rundown. He said, well, we can 1:01:38.440 --> 1:01:40.000 take my girl out of this. It did what it's 1:01:40.040 --> 1:01:41.920 gonna do. So we took it out and we did 1:01:41.960 --> 1:01:46.960 the show quest y'all. They call us every name except 1:01:47.000 --> 1:01:51.080 the child of God, so we will that is, I 1:01:51.120 --> 1:01:53.320 tell the guys even today, I said, there are some 1:01:53.680 --> 1:01:58.040 certain songs we can never ever take out. My girl, 1:01:58.920 --> 1:02:01.480 Uh just my matching nation. Ain't too proud to be. 1:02:01.960 --> 1:02:04.800 Can't get next to you. Papa was a rolling stone 1:02:05.120 --> 1:02:08.800 losing you now treat it like a lady. So like 1:02:08.880 --> 1:02:11.320 we have a new record album out now, and so 1:02:11.560 --> 1:02:16.040 I'm tasked with and I'm going to do because we 1:02:16.080 --> 1:02:20.640 only have a four hours show. Man, how long is. 1:02:20.560 --> 1:02:24.400 The average hour and a half to pack all this 1:02:24.600 --> 1:02:27.880 hour and a half? I mean that's with with banter 1:02:28.000 --> 1:02:31.080 in between and non met Just one. 1:02:30.960 --> 1:02:32.920 Hook, right, like, just go to one hook and then 1:02:32.920 --> 1:02:33.640 go to the next song. 1:02:33.840 --> 1:02:39.480 Well we got yeah, No, we work it our way. 1:02:39.560 --> 1:02:41.760 We well, like, ain't you proud? We do all of 1:02:41.840 --> 1:02:44.280 Ain't you proud? We do all of my girl and 1:02:44.400 --> 1:02:45.040 the what you do? 1:02:45.640 --> 1:02:45.840 Uh? 1:02:46.120 --> 1:02:49.800 Fortunately, you know, we try not to never cheat our 1:02:49.840 --> 1:02:51.760 fans because they paid their money to see the show. 1:02:51.840 --> 1:02:55.320 So but uh yeah, you know hour and a half. 1:02:55.720 --> 1:02:57.800 You know, we try and insert as much as we 1:02:57.840 --> 1:03:00.880 can so they can say, can still jumping around you 1:03:01.000 --> 1:03:02.840 after all? These just switched, That's what they're saying now, 1:03:02.880 --> 1:03:05.920 because we just did a big show in uh outside 1:03:05.960 --> 1:03:07.680 of Maryland, and it was packed there and I have 1:03:07.760 --> 1:03:11.520 been getting calls by man and the most amazing thing, 1:03:11.120 --> 1:03:13.520 he said, but the seold is still up there, keeping 1:03:13.560 --> 1:03:15.200 up with the rest of I said, I'm keeping up 1:03:15.200 --> 1:03:15.640 with them. 1:03:16.600 --> 1:03:18.280 Right, yo? 1:03:18.360 --> 1:03:19.040 What do you say that? 1:03:19.120 --> 1:03:20.640 Like the young artists who you know there are some 1:03:20.720 --> 1:03:23.720 artists who maybe two albums that are tired of doing 1:03:23.760 --> 1:03:25.320 their song that was the big hit in it. 1:03:27.160 --> 1:03:32.080 Any time you have fans that's been their heart earned 1:03:32.120 --> 1:03:35.120 money to come see you, and you're gonna tell I'm tired. Oh, 1:03:35.160 --> 1:03:37.200 we don't want to do that. Uh, then you should 1:03:37.280 --> 1:03:37.720 leave it alone. 1:03:37.720 --> 1:03:38.840 I want to do all my new stuff. 1:03:40.360 --> 1:03:42.000 They should leave the get out the business. 1:03:42.240 --> 1:03:43.800 That's what we think to when we're in the audience. 1:03:43.800 --> 1:03:46.280 But you know, see, yeah, well I'm an artist and 1:03:46.280 --> 1:03:49.040 I'm telling them that's the attitude you have. Get out 1:03:49.040 --> 1:03:52.280 of the business. Paper spend their hard earned money in 1:03:52.360 --> 1:03:54.400 the c these songs and you don't want to do them. 1:03:54.320 --> 1:03:56.280 Because you're tired tired of doing them. 1:03:56.360 --> 1:03:59.320 Yeah, I want to use the N word to please. 1:04:01.360 --> 1:04:06.960 How uh of the groups that you guys have inspired, 1:04:07.000 --> 1:04:10.160 especially the seventies onslaught of groups everyone from Blue Magic 1:04:10.200 --> 1:04:13.800 to boy Man Dynamics is period as well. I was 1:04:13.840 --> 1:04:16.640 sticking in the seventies, but I mean even even well, 1:04:16.680 --> 1:04:21.080 I mean well, yeah, just as at least no, no, no, 1:04:21.240 --> 1:04:25.080 hang on, because the thing is is that I feel 1:04:25.120 --> 1:04:26.920 like when it's twenty years down the line and it's 1:04:26.920 --> 1:04:29.720 someone young, then you're more willing to accept, like, yeah, 1:04:29.720 --> 1:04:32.920 I influenced them. Okay, get where you go. But how 1:04:32.920 --> 1:04:36.320 did you guys feel like with the onslought of all 1:04:36.360 --> 1:04:38.520 the seventies groups that are based on you guys, And 1:04:38.560 --> 1:04:44.120 I mean, like all those groups the choice for the champments, Yeah, enchantment, 1:04:44.280 --> 1:04:47.240 like just all those groups that have the same breakdown 1:04:47.320 --> 1:04:51.040 a falsetto guy, I have a bathroom. Guy, did you 1:04:51.080 --> 1:04:53.680 guys feel a certain way or you know? 1:04:53.880 --> 1:04:56.280 Of course we took it as a compliment, you know, 1:04:56.560 --> 1:04:59.480 and when you sit, I mean I gave it all 1:04:59.480 --> 1:05:01.720 the way today. Hey, when I watched Bruno Mars when 1:05:01.720 --> 1:05:03.600 he had he did the Super Bowl over a couple 1:05:03.640 --> 1:05:07.600 of years ago, I saw three important elements in his 1:05:07.640 --> 1:05:12.320 show James Brown, Michael Jackson and the temptation. Now he's 1:05:12.360 --> 1:05:16.160 here in the twenty first century, so our influence reached 1:05:16.400 --> 1:05:19.560 from now all the way back then runs the gamut. 1:05:19.640 --> 1:05:21.720 And when I have, uh I see somebody that's doing us, 1:05:22.280 --> 1:05:25.160 I said, Okay, I I liked him cause the Tempters 1:05:25.240 --> 1:05:27.040 influenced them. Ye know, so you can't do nothing but 1:05:27.080 --> 1:05:29.080 take it as a uh a compliment. 1:05:28.760 --> 1:05:30.760 You guys covered Bruno on the New Record, right. 1:05:31.080 --> 1:05:32.640 Uh yeah, we did one of his homes. 1:05:32.720 --> 1:05:36.520 Yeah uh huh And remember the time, right, uh yeah. 1:05:36.400 --> 1:05:39.080 Yeah, remember yeah. Uh well remember the time I tell 1:05:39.120 --> 1:05:40.440 you when I got the list and they said, we'll 1:05:40.480 --> 1:05:42.800 just pick out what you want uh to do for 1:05:42.880 --> 1:05:46.080 the new album. Uh. Mike had invited me down to 1:05:46.520 --> 1:05:49.200 the studio when he was recording. Remember the time, and 1:05:49.280 --> 1:05:51.680 him and I were in the uh his uh trailer 1:05:51.760 --> 1:05:54.640 talking you know, and uh when they said Mike were 1:05:54.640 --> 1:05:56.240 ready for you, but him and I were sitting in 1:05:56.320 --> 1:05:59.360 his trailer talking about days of Yo because uh and 1:05:59.560 --> 1:06:02.160 Tay will what brought back to mind because we were 1:06:02.160 --> 1:06:05.840 talking about we were in Chicago and uh Jesse Jackson 1:06:05.960 --> 1:06:10.680 had uh yeah, and they hit the ten of us 1:06:10.760 --> 1:06:14.600 on stage. So uh when I guess the girl said, 1:06:14.720 --> 1:06:16.840 oh oh they getting ready to come off the stage. 1:06:17.560 --> 1:06:20.800 All these women and girls start coming to get on 1:06:20.840 --> 1:06:24.760 the stage. So one of the security guys, what are 1:06:24.800 --> 1:06:27.200 we gonna do to protect these guys? There's ten of them. 1:06:27.360 --> 1:06:30.320 Somebody said get a U haul truck. They got a 1:06:30.440 --> 1:06:32.960 U haul truck. They put the ten of us in 1:06:33.040 --> 1:06:37.040 there with security and uh, it was pitch black. And 1:06:37.120 --> 1:06:41.960 then but Mike said, where's ODIs, Where's ODIs and somebody 1:06:41.960 --> 1:06:44.080 cut the light on inside the truck and I said, Mike, Mike, 1:06:44.120 --> 1:06:47.120 I'm right here. I never will forget the look that 1:06:47.200 --> 1:06:49.720 he had in his eyes of love now min you. 1:06:49.800 --> 1:06:52.439 He didn't ask about his brothers, he didn't ask about 1:06:52.440 --> 1:06:56.000 the other towns. Where's oldest? And I said, I might 1:06:56.000 --> 1:06:57.600 hear Mike come right here? And he looked up there 1:06:57.600 --> 1:06:59.680 and he had the damn this little I love you 1:06:59.720 --> 1:07:03.720 looking so But I was there the uh uh taping 1:07:03.760 --> 1:07:05.520 of remembering the time. So when I saw it, I said, 1:07:05.520 --> 1:07:07.320 oh no, we gotta do remember the time because it 1:07:07.400 --> 1:07:10.360 gave me that kind of remembrance that's so cool. 1:07:12.120 --> 1:07:16.120 In your in your entire catalog, if you could just 1:07:17.000 --> 1:07:24.640 what what to you is your three personal quintessential favorites 1:07:25.800 --> 1:07:28.640 and in the Temptations catalog right out the gate, my girl, 1:07:29.280 --> 1:07:34.480 So even though you performed it every day of your life, and. 1:07:35.800 --> 1:07:40.720 That's you, that one uh I had saying too proud 1:07:40.760 --> 1:07:44.080 to beg because Norman brought that track to my house 1:07:44.120 --> 1:07:47.640 because we all lived in Detroit, and I said, man, 1:07:47.720 --> 1:07:51.120 the track is oh you know, so ain't too proud? 1:07:51.240 --> 1:07:54.400 It would be the second one. You know. I'm a 1:07:54.440 --> 1:07:57.240 big temptation fan. I could go a lot longer than three, 1:07:57.360 --> 1:08:00.560 but you only pick three. Just my imagination. 1:08:01.640 --> 1:08:05.040 What okay, what one under the radar song that I 1:08:05.080 --> 1:08:07.040 was going to ask that? Yeah, never really made it, 1:08:07.080 --> 1:08:11.480 like a favorite of yours. That didn't make it, like 1:08:11.520 --> 1:08:13.320 when you think that deserves a second look, that didn't 1:08:13.320 --> 1:08:14.320 get a shot the first time. 1:08:15.000 --> 1:08:19.000 Now, this is one I really enjoy listening at. And 1:08:19.040 --> 1:08:23.880 it was a guy that worked at Motown named Steve McKeeva. 1:08:24.160 --> 1:08:27.719 Yes, yeah, okay. 1:08:27.560 --> 1:08:33.759 Oh yeah, he said, oldest that elevated eyes. I said, really, 1:08:34.040 --> 1:08:35.360 I said, I've always liked. 1:08:35.240 --> 1:08:39.879 That elevator eyes. That's a whole I work at thirty Rocks. 1:08:40.479 --> 1:08:45.320 That's hr we get sent to the principal office for elevator. 1:08:45.520 --> 1:08:50.280 Oh yeah, Well, young lady she since passed. She was 1:08:50.320 --> 1:08:53.640 a forensic psychologist and her and I were talking and 1:08:53.680 --> 1:08:55.559 she said, oldis have you ever heard of the term 1:08:56.040 --> 1:09:00.679 elevated eyes? I said, hell, oh no, I never heard 1:09:00.680 --> 1:09:03.479 of that. And she said, well, if you are working 1:09:03.520 --> 1:09:06.639 in the blue collar field and a young lady walk 1:09:06.720 --> 1:09:10.000 by and you be to my baby, you show oh 1:09:10.200 --> 1:09:12.760 excuse me and go and continue where she can go 1:09:12.800 --> 1:09:16.439 to the human resources h Yes, exactly your job. 1:09:16.640 --> 1:09:20.439 Wow, we're not alone. There was something that we just 1:09:20.479 --> 1:09:20.800 made up. 1:09:21.640 --> 1:09:23.840 But what made me really say, oh, okay, you're not 1:09:23.880 --> 1:09:27.599 the only one. Uh. Oprah had a forensic psychologists on 1:09:27.640 --> 1:09:29.680 our show and I asked her the same thing. She said, no, 1:09:29.720 --> 1:09:31.960 I've never I said, well, I don't feel like boo 1:09:32.000 --> 1:09:35.200 to fool any if over he heard, you know, and uh, 1:09:35.439 --> 1:09:37.240 I said, you know what, Kathy, I'm al write a 1:09:37.240 --> 1:09:41.000 song called Elevated Eyes, and uh, young lady wrote me, 1:09:41.240 --> 1:09:42.880 text me and she said, older, you need to do 1:09:42.960 --> 1:09:46.040 something with that Elevated Eyes. So that would be one 1:09:46.080 --> 1:09:47.880 that I would really and it would kind of be 1:09:47.960 --> 1:09:51.599 apropos what's what's happening with the me too? Thing? Because 1:09:51.680 --> 1:09:54.000 this song tells about her? You really, you know, you 1:09:54.000 --> 1:09:55.960 can see the young lady, but you don't trespass. You 1:09:56.000 --> 1:09:59.640 just let her know. She looks nice and peripheral. Yeah, uh, 1:09:59.720 --> 1:10:01.599 but you know you have to watch that. But that one. 1:10:02.040 --> 1:10:04.800 I told her, I'm gonna still work that out and 1:10:04.840 --> 1:10:07.800 find somebody to do it because the lyrics and the track, 1:10:07.960 --> 1:10:08.800 you know, it's tight. 1:10:08.880 --> 1:10:10.240 Now's the time, Yeah it is. 1:10:10.560 --> 1:10:16.240 I see my last question, how come you didn't sing more? 1:10:17.000 --> 1:10:17.200 You know? 1:10:17.320 --> 1:10:18.639 What prominently on the lead? 1:10:19.320 --> 1:10:22.080 Because your on point, because I was the lead singer 1:10:22.240 --> 1:10:25.840 at when we were the Distance. Okay, because Billy my 1:10:26.160 --> 1:10:30.120 valet he went on the internet and found Open your 1:10:30.160 --> 1:10:32.640 Heart and what else did it? It was another song that 1:10:32.680 --> 1:10:36.479 I did. But my thinking was when we got to 1:10:36.560 --> 1:10:39.720 Motown and you know, because it wasn't like, uh, I 1:10:39.760 --> 1:10:41.720 couldn't sing lead on it. I just say, man, I 1:10:41.720 --> 1:10:44.000 don't give ever care who sing as long as we 1:10:44.080 --> 1:10:47.280 make this money. And it wasn't like, oh wait, wait, bro, 1:10:47.360 --> 1:10:50.320 you're getting paid more because she sang lead. Oh hell no, 1:10:50.560 --> 1:10:52.559 I want to sing lead. So it wasn't that kind 1:10:52.560 --> 1:10:52.840 of thing. 1:10:52.920 --> 1:10:54.920 Oh, everybody got the same I was wondering about that. 1:10:55.000 --> 1:10:57.800 No excuse me, No, no, everybody got the same pay. 1:10:58.120 --> 1:11:00.920 But then that's weird because since you were found a member, 1:11:01.080 --> 1:11:04.160 and then so Melvin. But regardless, it's a new guy whatever, 1:11:04.240 --> 1:11:05.240 we all the same. 1:11:05.680 --> 1:11:08.880 Yeah, that's where it was at that. Yeah. And uh 1:11:08.920 --> 1:11:11.559 but Tom Bell. We did an album with Tom Bell 1:11:12.200 --> 1:11:15.040 and he recorded us and I was just hormming something 1:11:15.120 --> 1:11:19.040 and Tom stopped. He said, you the one I should 1:11:19.080 --> 1:11:21.599 be recording. I said, really, why you said that? He said, 1:11:22.080 --> 1:11:26.920 I like your voice. I said, oops, too late. You know, 1:11:27.280 --> 1:11:30.360 we had, you know, finished recording. But my attitude has 1:11:30.439 --> 1:11:32.439 always been like, hey man, I just wanted us to 1:11:32.439 --> 1:11:34.160 make it, and you know my ego didn't get hung 1:11:34.240 --> 1:11:36.200 up on the thing. Well I got the sing lead, 1:11:36.240 --> 1:11:38.240 I'm the group leader. I found this shit stuff. You know. No, 1:11:38.600 --> 1:11:41.240 it wasn't that with me. Let us all make money 1:11:41.240 --> 1:11:45.400 and be successful, and uh that's it, you know. But uh, 1:11:46.200 --> 1:11:48.839 I guess I never did really make any real bones 1:11:48.840 --> 1:11:49.240 about it. 1:11:49.280 --> 1:11:52.519 Just did you make What about the writing process because 1:11:52.520 --> 1:11:55.080 you said earlier on you wrote some songs for the stations, 1:11:55.120 --> 1:11:56.200 but did it continue on? 1:11:56.200 --> 1:11:59.320 Because it sounds like I'm okay, okay yeah. 1:11:59.479 --> 1:12:03.519 On our this album Temptations all the time I did 1:12:03.840 --> 1:12:07.439 along with two other guys waiting on you Elevate Eyes, 1:12:08.840 --> 1:12:12.760 Treaeau like the Lady. Yeah yeah, so no, I love 1:12:12.760 --> 1:12:15.040 writing when I can, you know, give a chance to 1:12:15.040 --> 1:12:18.080 do it. So yeah, that's my other thing of doing it. 1:12:18.600 --> 1:12:22.960 Well, I know you have another three hundred years in you, So. 1:12:23.120 --> 1:12:27.080 I love you Quz. Yeah. Yeah, I'm all. Like I said, 1:12:27.080 --> 1:12:28.880 I'm gonna ride the health the horse. When I get 1:12:28.880 --> 1:12:29.960 off the horse, it'll be ball. 1:12:31.520 --> 1:12:33.360 And that's how we have to end it. Thank you 1:12:33.439 --> 1:12:37.439 very much. We're coming on Quest Love Supreme. Thank you, 1:12:38.200 --> 1:12:40.719 thank you for you have love Boss Bill Sugar Steve. 1:12:40.760 --> 1:12:43.759 It's like yeah, particular and unpaid Bill. This is Quest 1:12:43.760 --> 1:12:45.760 Love of Quest Love Supreme. We will see you on 1:12:45.800 --> 1:12:55.920 the next go round. Thank you. Quest Love Supreme is 1:12:55.920 --> 1:12:59.800 a production of iHeartRadio. This classic episode was produced by 1:12:59.840 --> 1:13:08.160 the team at Pandora. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit 1:13:08.160 --> 1:13:11.720 the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 1:13:11.800 --> 1:13:12.599 your favorite shows.