WEBVTT - Ep. 295: A Soft Spot for Outlaws 0:00:08.960 --> 0:00:13.320 This is Me Eat podcast coming at you shirtless, severely, 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:18.320 bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listening podcast. You 0:00:18.360 --> 0:00:24.080 can't predict anything presented by first, like creating proven versatile 0:00:24.160 --> 0:00:28.040 hunting apparel from Marino bass layers to technical outerwear for 0:00:28.160 --> 0:00:36.440 every hunt. First like go farther, stay longer. All right, 0:00:36.440 --> 0:00:39.480 we got a lot to cover today. Uh the honest 0:00:39.600 --> 0:00:43.559 is here. I'm gonna do intros the opposite way we 0:00:43.640 --> 0:00:45.360 normally do him. So I'm gonna start with Yoanny except 0:00:45.400 --> 0:00:49.559 so happy to see him. Yanni's here, Sam Laurie's here. 0:00:49.720 --> 0:00:53.880 You would know if you listen to uh um Are 0:00:53.960 --> 0:00:57.640 Close Calls series, he tells the tremendous the mud Puddle 0:00:57.680 --> 0:01:03.200 story called the Mud Puddle Former game Warden. Yeah, get 0:01:03.200 --> 0:01:05.959 way closer to that, Mike. I guess I'm supposed to 0:01:05.959 --> 0:01:07.880 acknowledge it. Yeah, I know you'd say something like, oh, 0:01:08.040 --> 0:01:10.240 good to be here. Oh Steve, it's great to be here. 0:01:10.240 --> 0:01:12.920 There you go. Well, we'll get to you in greater 0:01:12.959 --> 0:01:17.080 detail later on. He's here, Crans and the lazy boy 0:01:17.160 --> 0:01:23.479 with a crazy ass shirt on. Um, Yeah, what what's 0:01:23.560 --> 0:01:26.760 what's that kind of animal? Yea, it's got a like 0:01:26.800 --> 0:01:33.280 a cosmos pizza slice, sloth shirt, love that uh phills here, 0:01:33.520 --> 0:01:35.440 Paul Lewis from f HF. This is the first time 0:01:35.440 --> 0:01:38.199 you been on the show now, Yeah, first time? Is it? Really? 0:01:40.120 --> 0:01:42.960 You look familiar over here with those headphones. Ve never 0:01:42.959 --> 0:01:46.800 been in You've never done it before? Sure, yeah, I 0:01:46.880 --> 0:01:49.040 only live a few blocks away, it seems like. But 0:01:49.240 --> 0:01:51.240 the first time in here is Yeah, something about you 0:01:51.240 --> 0:01:54.560 in the headphones seems familiar. It's probably shying off my head. 0:01:54.640 --> 0:01:56.680 I don't know. You send Rick down here now, and 0:01:56.680 --> 0:01:58.840 then yeah, Rick comes down a lot. Rick Hutton. So 0:01:58.920 --> 0:02:00.800 Rick Hutton who you've seen and he's been on the show. 0:02:01.480 --> 0:02:05.000 Rick Hutton's like, I don't know, boss, Yeah, he likes 0:02:05.040 --> 0:02:08.639 to think, so Paul, it was. And then we have 0:02:08.760 --> 0:02:12.239 a special guest, Ray Lockhart. Ray. So, if you paid 0:02:12.240 --> 0:02:16.960 attention a long time ago, we did UH fundraiser for 0:02:17.000 --> 0:02:21.160 the local public school and uh Ray won that one 0:02:21.280 --> 0:02:23.520 the chance to come to the studio. Is it everything 0:02:23.560 --> 0:02:27.639 you dreamed of? So far succeeded my expectations. Yeah, and 0:02:27.760 --> 0:02:32.080 he started. Yet this guy's already happy. UH quick announcement 0:02:32.160 --> 0:02:37.200 the fuds. So this is an internal explanation. This is 0:02:37.360 --> 0:02:40.519 I'll give you some production thing. Have I explained this before, Gran, 0:02:41.120 --> 0:02:43.119 Like what s R M E means and all that, 0:02:43.680 --> 0:02:48.200 I don't believe. So you've mentioned it briefly just in passing. 0:02:48.240 --> 0:02:52.359 I think okay. In the production world, UM, I don't 0:02:52.360 --> 0:02:54.120 know if this is across the board, but in the 0:02:54.120 --> 0:02:57.520 production world that I'm accustomed to, you come up with acronyms. 0:02:58.000 --> 0:03:02.519 When you're packing boxes like production equipment, you use acronym acronyms. 0:03:02.560 --> 0:03:05.720 So in the ZBZ offices in the old days we 0:03:05.800 --> 0:03:07.920 operated out of there, we'd have like if our show 0:03:08.040 --> 0:03:10.440 was going out on the road, the pelican cases would 0:03:10.440 --> 0:03:13.480 all have masking tape on and it would say s 0:03:13.680 --> 0:03:17.120 R M E. So it'd be like Stephen Ronella me 0:03:17.240 --> 0:03:20.880 either beyond the things, and then it was um A 0:03:21.120 --> 0:03:24.640 B N R would be a bunch of pelicans, and 0:03:24.639 --> 0:03:27.120 that would be Anthony Bourdain, no reservations and not and 0:03:27.200 --> 0:03:30.399 on and on. So we've adopted that a little bit. 0:03:30.600 --> 0:03:34.000 The Floods calendar is the funked up old deer stands 0:03:34.040 --> 0:03:37.280 calendar is bag in stock. It might be sold out 0:03:37.280 --> 0:03:42.720 again aggressive order this time. Phil Yes, speaking of like 0:03:42.760 --> 0:03:47.080 behind the scenes, we're recording this several days before. You 0:03:47.120 --> 0:03:51.720 will hear it, and the calendars are back in stock 0:03:52.000 --> 0:03:55.400 there on sale, but moving at an astonishing clip. Yes, 0:03:55.520 --> 0:03:57.200 so there is a small chance a by the time 0:03:57.240 --> 0:03:58.960 you hear this, they will not be in stock anymore, 0:03:59.000 --> 0:04:01.760 but you should try your luck and check it out. Yeah. 0:04:01.760 --> 0:04:03.360 And this is one of those things they do, like 0:04:03.640 --> 0:04:06.280 on the radio and stuff, where they'll say like they're 0:04:06.320 --> 0:04:11.240 going fast so act Now I'd always ask myself, well, 0:04:11.240 --> 0:04:16.280 if they're going fast, why are they buying an advertisement? Do? 0:04:16.360 --> 0:04:17.800 I mean? Like I like, I felt like I was 0:04:17.800 --> 0:04:23.600 being manipulated. They weren't really going fast. They're not like 0:04:23.640 --> 0:04:28.880 worried about you getting one, but these but to beyond 0:04:29.000 --> 0:04:31.960 and all. Honestly, these are moving like hotcakes. It's just 0:04:32.000 --> 0:04:36.200 like the vindication. The vindication keeps flowing in. Um, it's 0:04:36.200 --> 0:04:38.280 gonna give me more. I feel like it's gonna give 0:04:38.320 --> 0:04:40.560 me more leverage to do the Chetiquette book, which is 0:04:40.640 --> 0:04:45.159 Chester around Etiquette. Know about this, Johnnie, Yeah, so Chester 0:04:45.320 --> 0:04:47.200 wants to do a book. Oh, he was telling us 0:04:47.240 --> 0:04:52.160 about fishing etiquette needs bigger. He wants to do a 0:04:52.200 --> 0:04:54.200 fishing etiquette book. I think it needs to be the 0:04:54.480 --> 0:04:58.719 Chetickutt Book of Outdoor Etiquette and it's Chester on all 0:04:58.800 --> 0:05:02.000 things outdoor etiquette. So even would include we're gonna start 0:05:02.000 --> 0:05:03.760 doing where he's gonna start. We just today Krand and 0:05:03.760 --> 0:05:05.599 I are emailing about he's gonna start doing little guest 0:05:05.640 --> 0:05:11.200 segments so you can sort of test the appetite public appetite. Uh, 0:05:11.760 --> 0:05:15.480 he'll do guest segments in which he'd explain like, you're 0:05:15.480 --> 0:05:20.119 on a trail and you're walking and here comes a rider, 0:05:20.360 --> 0:05:24.599 a horseman. Is that a good term for that? A horseman? Yaman? 0:05:25.600 --> 0:05:32.559 What's etiquette? Right? Um, you are walking down a trail 0:05:32.600 --> 0:05:35.360 and there's a biker. Let's say you're the biker and 0:05:35.400 --> 0:05:38.760 you're biking and you're coming up behind someone, what's etiquette? 0:05:39.920 --> 0:05:42.360 I like it? And usually they're screaming on your right, 0:05:42.400 --> 0:05:44.400 on your right, and you're so confused you let go 0:05:44.560 --> 0:05:47.160 right or you know, like so this whole the whole 0:05:47.200 --> 0:05:51.719 world of cheticuott outdoor etiquette. STEPID that include a chapter 0:05:51.880 --> 0:05:56.320 on fishing against ducks, sprinklers, and yep, he'd get into 0:05:56.360 --> 0:06:01.920 all that floating etiquette. Yeah, doc etiquette. Yeah, he needs to. 0:06:01.960 --> 0:06:04.320 He needs to start thinking big. He wanted to just fishing, 0:06:04.320 --> 0:06:06.440 but I think it's a great idea outdoor etiquette. And 0:06:06.440 --> 0:06:08.280 then I think there's a lot of regional like there's 0:06:08.360 --> 0:06:12.480 like regional specific etiquette things. Probably remember when you were 0:06:12.520 --> 0:06:15.040 down in uh, hunting ducks in North Carolina, all that 0:06:15.080 --> 0:06:20.920 craziness about the blinds. Oh yeah, like we can't even 0:06:20.960 --> 0:06:25.720 really get into it time. Um. I saw quite a 0:06:25.760 --> 0:06:31.039 few comments after when on Instagram when we announced that 0:06:31.080 --> 0:06:33.760 these calendars are back and stop, quite a few people 0:06:33.839 --> 0:06:36.320 were writing to say that, man, would be great if 0:06:36.320 --> 0:06:38.960 you guys just did like a like a big coffee 0:06:38.960 --> 0:06:41.240 table book. There's people that refused to buy the calendar 0:06:41.279 --> 0:06:44.560 because they're waiting for the book. And this is all 0:06:44.640 --> 0:06:49.320 leading up to the book. Good. I think Ross is 0:06:49.320 --> 0:06:52.839 into the book. Idea to anyone who's gonna send in 0:06:53.000 --> 0:06:56.680 more pictures of their tree stands, give us some background. 0:06:56.800 --> 0:06:58.960 We need a story with that stand when you send 0:06:58.960 --> 0:07:02.440 in your submit, Yeah, that would help a lot, because 0:07:02.440 --> 0:07:04.159 we just had to make up stories for all you. 0:07:04.640 --> 0:07:06.560 We did some dig and as much as we can, 0:07:09.000 --> 0:07:13.800 but yeah, we we got creative with some some of them. Well, no, 0:07:14.160 --> 0:07:17.040 you guys did a good job because one of well 0:07:17.080 --> 0:07:19.720 it was a Christyl photograph, but it was from my 0:07:19.920 --> 0:07:25.440 family's property. In Wisconsin and yeah, high stand and you 0:07:25.480 --> 0:07:28.560 guys did a good job because without knowing the background, 0:07:28.640 --> 0:07:31.240 you guys did a good job of you know, painting 0:07:31.240 --> 0:07:34.280 a good Yeah. But we we'd love to have the 0:07:34.320 --> 0:07:38.480 real info. Uh another thing, no small Yeah, so so 0:07:38.600 --> 0:07:41.840 those are back in stock. Another another small announcement, Uh, 0:07:42.040 --> 0:07:47.600 Waterfowl season kickoff. We have a um a new episode 0:07:47.640 --> 0:07:50.680 up out on YouTube. And this is good because this 0:07:50.720 --> 0:07:52.600 is if if you've been here, you know, everybody always 0:07:52.600 --> 0:07:54.559 hears Krine's voice. This is a chance to see Karin 0:07:56.280 --> 0:08:01.600 in the goose woods. Uh. It is a goose film, 0:08:01.640 --> 0:08:07.840 a speckle belly goose hunt between three women that work here. 0:08:08.680 --> 0:08:13.400 So Hillary, it was her first time ever hunting. Samantha Bates, 0:08:13.400 --> 0:08:18.200 who's a producer on our Netflix show Grinch Schneider producer 0:08:18.240 --> 0:08:22.760 is hunting along with Jonathan Wilkins of Black Duck Revival. 0:08:22.800 --> 0:08:25.040 So you can go check that hunt out now. Plug 0:08:25.080 --> 0:08:27.520 at CRINT say something like maybe people sell people on it. 0:08:28.600 --> 0:08:31.120 It's a standalone We don't normally do that here. It's 0:08:31.120 --> 0:08:34.640 probably one of the first standalone videos we've got. We 0:08:34.720 --> 0:08:39.120 normally have stuff in series and so uh yeah, I 0:08:39.120 --> 0:08:42.640 mean we had a fantastic time with Jonathan Um. He 0:08:42.800 --> 0:08:47.439 was really sensitive and solid mentor for all of us. 0:08:47.840 --> 0:08:51.400 It's beautiful landscape. I don't think anything at meat eater. 0:08:52.559 --> 0:08:54.960 I don't think we've had any meat eater hunts filmed 0:08:55.760 --> 0:08:59.400 involving the spec goose species. Do you think we have 0:08:59.400 --> 0:09:04.080 have we speckle bellies? Can you make the noise of 0:09:04.080 --> 0:09:10.920 the speckle belly? Nah? That was close work that in. 0:09:12.200 --> 0:09:15.200 You get some gun playing on that episode, grin, Yeah, Yeah, 0:09:15.240 --> 0:09:18.320 that's how many shotgun shells did you shoot? You can 0:09:18.320 --> 0:09:21.760 see the trials and tribulations of our of our two 0:09:21.840 --> 0:09:26.199 day hunt. Uh. There's some funny moments and some poor 0:09:26.360 --> 0:09:31.080 shooting form, and then you can see the failure and 0:09:31.120 --> 0:09:35.760 then the turnaround and then the success. Are you one 0:09:35.760 --> 0:09:38.080 of those kind of goose hunters who when everybody shoots, 0:09:38.120 --> 0:09:43.760 you're like, I got that one. Actually, that was one 0:09:43.800 --> 0:09:48.400 of the most challenging parts of the hunt. Um. We 0:09:48.400 --> 0:09:52.680 We're in Arkansas and December and in order our camo 0:09:52.880 --> 0:09:59.480 was like these white uh suit exactly the white painter suits, 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:02.520 and we were kind of in a in a long 0:10:02.640 --> 0:10:06.400 row of folks. UM, and you kind of sit up 0:10:06.480 --> 0:10:09.640 like you just use your abdominal muscles to sit up 0:10:09.720 --> 0:10:13.280 and really quickly like when you pop up, rest your 0:10:14.240 --> 0:10:17.920 put your gun butt into your shoulder and pick one 0:10:18.480 --> 0:10:23.360 goose out and shoot. And I was terrible at that 0:10:23.440 --> 0:10:25.800 because there were I mean, it was really there are 0:10:25.840 --> 0:10:29.360 so many birds in the sky. It was incredible, incredible 0:10:29.360 --> 0:10:31.120 and they were so loud, but there are so many 0:10:31.280 --> 0:10:34.880 and to just like identify one and then to follow 0:10:34.920 --> 0:10:38.080 it and do that like paint brush technique that you've 0:10:38.080 --> 0:10:39.800 mentioned to me a couple of times. And like, I 0:10:39.840 --> 0:10:42.200 think after my major failure the first day, I called 0:10:42.240 --> 0:10:43.959 up Yanni and I was like, what do I do? 0:10:44.040 --> 0:10:46.200 I'm like aiming at the ass of the animal and 0:10:46.200 --> 0:10:49.240 I'm missing, and so he's like, you gotta aim like 0:10:49.360 --> 0:10:51.720 in front of it, and like where you know you 0:10:51.760 --> 0:10:55.560 want to you want to greet him with the shot. Uh, 0:10:55.559 --> 0:10:58.320 there's a quail hunting thing, like aim at them all 0:10:58.400 --> 0:11:03.480 you're getting on want to get to. Yeah, it's pretty 0:11:03.520 --> 0:11:06.320 damn true. So I don't do what you asked because 0:11:06.679 --> 0:11:09.400 I failed a lot, but then like had a success 0:11:09.440 --> 0:11:12.079 which was fun. But yeah, go check it out on YouTube. 0:11:12.720 --> 0:11:14.600 What's it like, what's the best way to find it? 0:11:14.640 --> 0:11:16.319 I got just go to our YouTube channel. Yeah, I 0:11:16.320 --> 0:11:18.960 go to our YouTube channel. It's I think it's the 0:11:18.960 --> 0:11:23.840 most recent thing that we've released. It's called Speckle Belly 0:11:23.880 --> 0:11:28.360 Goose Hunting with Jonathan Wilkins. Just that pretty straightforward. So 0:11:28.520 --> 0:11:33.280 go watch it. Enjoy um auction House of Bodity. So 0:11:34.480 --> 0:11:36.400 phase one is over? What do we what do we calm? 0:11:36.400 --> 0:11:41.120 It'n't that phases there? Uh? Groups? The group one auction 0:11:41.200 --> 0:11:44.200 is over. So around with the group to auction. Do 0:11:44.200 --> 0:11:47.800 you know how much my pheasantil went for? Yeah? Do 0:11:47.840 --> 0:11:52.640 you know? I saw some random numbers that were thrown around, 0:11:52.800 --> 0:11:55.080 but then people were wondering if it was real or not. Yeah, 0:11:55.120 --> 0:12:01.199 it's it's absurdly high. It's now I feel like I 0:12:01.200 --> 0:12:03.600 should have held onto that because who knows what it 0:12:03.600 --> 0:12:06.640 could have been worth in another five years for guys. 0:12:06.760 --> 0:12:11.800 Pheasant first peasant tail. Hey, I might shoot another pheasant 0:12:12.040 --> 0:12:15.200 this year and then we can auction off my second 0:12:16.280 --> 0:12:24.840 more maybe. Uh oh. This auction group, this includes the puppy, 0:12:25.000 --> 0:12:32.760 Danielle's puppy, an actual live puppy. It is a yeah yeah, 0:12:32.760 --> 0:12:34.160 and you do you like dogs more than I do? 0:12:34.840 --> 0:12:38.680 It's a draft hour, the Deutsche Draw Hour of course 0:12:38.760 --> 0:12:42.760 all draft hours are Deutsche. So Danielle Prufe, our Wild 0:12:42.800 --> 0:12:46.800 Foods editor, is contributing this puppy an offspring over her dog. 0:12:47.840 --> 0:12:50.120 So this is a high test. Damn dog. Oh they 0:12:50.160 --> 0:12:55.440 do it all, including the fox in the box. Yeah, 0:12:55.600 --> 0:12:59.920 and you can uh and Danielle's then they come in 0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:02.320 the house, they turn off the hunting and they just 0:13:02.400 --> 0:13:06.680 become couch lap dogs and just family dogs. We interviewed 0:13:06.679 --> 0:13:09.120 her at length about this dog, but she's gonna have 0:13:09.160 --> 0:13:10.800 the dog. We'll probably get around and talk some more 0:13:10.800 --> 0:13:13.679 about the dog. We should do that, cran have her 0:13:13.679 --> 0:13:15.199 come in and talk before it's too late. Have we 0:13:15.280 --> 0:13:19.400 talked more about the dog, like again, just to drive 0:13:19.480 --> 0:13:21.880 up the bidding. I remember all like when when you 0:13:21.880 --> 0:13:24.720 go to the auction house of Bodity is all the money. 0:13:25.000 --> 0:13:27.520 All the money goes to the two our land access initiatives. 0:13:27.520 --> 0:13:28.760 So it's not like you're giving us the money. You're 0:13:28.760 --> 0:13:30.800 giving the money for us to do the land access 0:13:30.800 --> 0:13:34.800 initiative projects. We got a handmade river hawk knife. Oh, 0:13:34.840 --> 0:13:38.040 here's another one. Are remember the Gnome project where we 0:13:38.080 --> 0:13:42.160 had the Gnome packing out. It was my brother's vision 0:13:42.880 --> 0:13:47.120 of a Gnome packing out a unicorn in his backpack. 0:13:48.320 --> 0:13:52.840 So we commissioned that with an artist. He's we're auctioning 0:13:52.920 --> 0:13:56.640 off his original Gnome sketch signed by the illustrators. So 0:13:56.679 --> 0:14:00.319 this is like the ancestral original sketch of the Nome 0:14:00.880 --> 0:14:06.440 with a severed unicorn's head in his backpack. So in 0:14:06.480 --> 0:14:09.079 his bow, he's got his crazy Nome bow and he's 0:14:09.120 --> 0:14:12.080 walking through the woods there. The original artwork is for 0:14:12.120 --> 0:14:15.559 sale at the auction hous of ooditys Oh. Now, we 0:14:15.640 --> 0:14:17.600 got a collection of prototypes, so we just did a 0:14:17.640 --> 0:14:21.760 new uh desk skull mount like for putting freedom mounts 0:14:21.920 --> 0:14:24.000 if you want to like formerly known as a uro amount, 0:14:24.040 --> 0:14:26.880 but you want to put a freedom out on a 0:14:26.960 --> 0:14:30.960 stand on your desk. All the prototypes that went into 0:14:31.000 --> 0:14:36.120 making that one we got. Brody's got a black bear baculum, 0:14:36.160 --> 0:14:39.400 also known as a pecker bone. It's a drink stir 0:14:40.560 --> 0:14:42.680 do whatever you want with it. Man bro does a 0:14:42.720 --> 0:14:45.640 Carrot's your it's your packerbone. What's the largest vaculum of 0:14:45.640 --> 0:14:48.440 a mammal in the world? I know what the walrus 0:14:48.560 --> 0:14:51.440 is big enough to use as a cane. Is it 0:14:51.480 --> 0:14:53.760 the biggest in the world? You know how you can 0:14:53.880 --> 0:14:57.960 estimate estimated a bear's rough size by the width of 0:14:58.000 --> 0:15:01.080 its pad. Yeah, I think it's the same thing with 0:15:01.400 --> 0:15:03.960 length of the baculum. Is that true? I don't know 0:15:04.080 --> 0:15:07.720 it was with this one. Oh, like you measured the 0:15:07.760 --> 0:15:10.880 vacuum and added an inch. Oh, you've got an add 0:15:10.920 --> 0:15:14.040 an inch. Then it's when you measure a bear's footprint 0:15:14.240 --> 0:15:16.640 you add an inch to get squared. No, I'm not right. 0:15:16.720 --> 0:15:19.600 Which is pretty damn reliable. Like a five foot bear 0:15:19.680 --> 0:15:21.920 is going to have a four inch wide pad. This 0:15:21.960 --> 0:15:25.040 one is very reliable inches defeat. It was a good match. 0:15:25.160 --> 0:15:26.720 I feel like by the time you get your hands 0:15:26.720 --> 0:15:29.280 on the baculum, you probably know how big the bear is. Yeah, 0:15:29.400 --> 0:15:31.480 that's a good point. It's a good point. But if 0:15:31.520 --> 0:15:34.440 anyone wants to know how big the bear was, that's 0:15:34.440 --> 0:15:37.440 an excellent point. But it is, like it's still a 0:15:37.440 --> 0:15:41.960 good little trivia bit. Yeah. My boy, my six year old, 0:15:41.960 --> 0:15:43.720 the other day, we were talking about what all had 0:15:43.800 --> 0:15:46.400 backul limbs and didn't have bacul limbs, and he said, 0:15:46.440 --> 0:15:54.840 people do oh boy, stop me for a mix. I 0:15:54.880 --> 0:15:56.080 was like, should do that? And I'm like no, I 0:15:56.160 --> 0:16:00.400 definitely did the conversation end there he was very Adam 0:16:00.440 --> 0:16:05.440 and they had a pecker ball. Um. Oh so anyways 0:16:05.600 --> 0:16:09.440 we announced last week is it like so in the 0:16:09.480 --> 0:16:11.760 first round of the Auction House of oodity is when 0:16:11.800 --> 0:16:14.120 you you could go in and sign up to get 0:16:14.160 --> 0:16:17.320 that bottle of skunk Essence that we extracted from Skunks 0:16:18.440 --> 0:16:22.280 no more. That's gone. The new free thing, the new 0:16:22.320 --> 0:16:24.880 free sign up item at the Auction House of Bodies 0:16:24.960 --> 0:16:27.600 is a chance to come to the studio to participate 0:16:27.600 --> 0:16:30.640 in trivial tribute. That not trivia pursuit, that's someone else's game. 0:16:30.680 --> 0:16:34.480 What's our thing called trivia Media to trivia. You get 0:16:34.520 --> 0:16:37.000 to come and play media or trivia with us. That's 0:16:37.000 --> 0:16:39.760 the new thing. You can win. Um. That would be 0:16:39.840 --> 0:16:42.440 the second time ever we've ever allowed someone to come 0:16:42.440 --> 0:16:45.360 in here. The first time is today with our friend Ray. 0:16:46.320 --> 0:16:49.840 So starting today as you're listening this, if you're listening 0:16:49.840 --> 0:16:52.080 to this on launch day, starting today through Halloween, you 0:16:52.120 --> 0:16:54.320 can bid on all these items, including the new dog 0:16:54.360 --> 0:16:58.040 and everything um and then for free you can sign 0:16:58.080 --> 0:17:00.280 up for a chance to come hang out with us 0:17:00.440 --> 0:17:05.960 in the studio to play me Eater trivia with Spencer 0:17:06.440 --> 0:17:11.199 new Heart. Right. We've had a lot of listeners on 0:17:11.280 --> 0:17:14.400 this podcast reach out to us about donating items, which 0:17:14.440 --> 0:17:16.119 is very generous of you. So we've had like the 0:17:16.800 --> 0:17:22.440 NFL dudes with the jersey, We've had Major League Baseball 0:17:22.520 --> 0:17:27.399 dudes with other stuff. Artists what all lots of stuff, 0:17:28.720 --> 0:17:31.840 a lot of artists. I want to donate stuff to 0:17:31.840 --> 0:17:36.320 the auction house of Oodities and uh, if you want 0:17:36.320 --> 0:17:37.760 to do that, here's what you need to do. You 0:17:37.880 --> 0:17:40.600 just email, just email met eater at the meat eater 0:17:40.760 --> 0:17:43.600 dot com and then uh in the subject line do 0:17:43.720 --> 0:17:48.320 auction donation and uh, Corey'll get you squared away and 0:17:48.720 --> 0:17:53.200 sent over the right person. Am I saying that? Right? Grint? Okay, Steve. 0:17:53.280 --> 0:17:58.400 If I wanted to donate a signed book of game 0:17:58.400 --> 0:18:01.720 Board entails and to have you guys signed it as well, 0:18:01.720 --> 0:18:04.639 would that be of interest? Yeah, and you don't even 0:18:04.680 --> 0:18:10.320 need an email that email. I'm not gonna make you 0:18:10.400 --> 0:18:12.000 jump through. I brought it right here today. I'm not 0:18:12.040 --> 0:18:13.800 gonna make you jump through who you can just do it. 0:18:13.800 --> 0:18:15.360 We'll just do it right now. Oh that's a hardcover. 0:18:15.560 --> 0:18:18.360 That that's the quality one. Most people buy that one. 0:18:18.600 --> 0:18:23.080 Oh really a little joke. No, we'll do that for sure. 0:18:23.119 --> 0:18:27.919 We'll that's perfect uh So, anyways, Ray Lockhart is here 0:18:27.920 --> 0:18:30.879 all the way from Maine. He won the Hawthorne Elementary 0:18:30.960 --> 0:18:35.439 School auction that we put on earlier. Welcome. Thanks. Uh 0:18:35.520 --> 0:18:37.720 do you have any messages you want to broadcast with 0:18:37.760 --> 0:18:41.080 the broader world? Um, like I say something your mom? 0:18:42.800 --> 0:18:45.600 Uh no, not really. I'm not on any social media 0:18:45.680 --> 0:18:47.240 and the kind of stuff I specifically stay off of 0:18:47.200 --> 0:18:49.560 their trying to keep myself but just excited to be 0:18:49.600 --> 0:18:52.120 here and uh, yeah this is uh, this is really cool, 0:18:52.240 --> 0:18:54.560 really really like the brand and been following you guys 0:18:54.560 --> 0:18:57.960 for a long time. So do you more power to 0:18:58.040 --> 0:19:00.760 you on social Do you stay off social um just 0:19:00.760 --> 0:19:02.560 because you haven't gotten around and gotten onto it? Or 0:19:02.600 --> 0:19:06.560 do you hate it? Uh? I just never felt like 0:19:06.600 --> 0:19:08.160 it was something I wanted to It was really probably 0:19:08.160 --> 0:19:09.560 staying away from some of the family that I didn't 0:19:09.600 --> 0:19:11.760 really want to connect with on Facebook. You know, they'll 0:19:11.800 --> 0:19:13.639 find yeah their arms length and then they then they 0:19:13.640 --> 0:19:15.480 come and find you friends the same thing. You know, 0:19:15.520 --> 0:19:16.959 I got a circle of friends that have a hard 0:19:17.040 --> 0:19:19.160 enough time keeping up with as as it is. So 0:19:19.560 --> 0:19:22.080 I am a consumer obviously for your guys stuff and 0:19:22.119 --> 0:19:24.719 things like that. But it turns out to be one 0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:26.119 of the better decisions I made, because I feel like 0:19:26.119 --> 0:19:27.520 it's a rabbit hole it's tough to pull out of 0:19:28.320 --> 0:19:31.320 once you're done. So yeah, good, thank you. Did you 0:19:31.400 --> 0:19:33.120 let the kids do it when they were growing up? 0:19:34.240 --> 0:19:35.760 Uh yeah, I mean my wife, and my wife does 0:19:35.800 --> 0:19:37.560 all the all that stuff and just feeds it to me. 0:19:37.640 --> 0:19:39.960 So I get at arms length, you know, feedback off 0:19:40.000 --> 0:19:42.040 of social media. But I have an a buffering system 0:19:42.040 --> 0:19:43.760 in the so you know that some friend of yours 0:19:43.840 --> 0:19:45.399 you haven't seen for twenty five years got a new 0:19:45.440 --> 0:19:47.600 dog in the family, all that stuff. I get it 0:19:47.640 --> 0:19:50.080 all filtered and the report report out and that's it's 0:19:50.240 --> 0:19:54.639 a lot more efficient that way. Uh. Here, here's a 0:19:54.680 --> 0:19:57.720 note that came in uh through TRCP, and it was 0:19:57.760 --> 0:20:02.520 why it was wildly broadcast as well. But TRCP has 0:20:02.560 --> 0:20:06.280 been pretty focused on c w D. Uh. This is 0:20:06.440 --> 0:20:10.600 these these new like major outbreaks c w D outbreaks 0:20:10.600 --> 0:20:13.480 going on chronic waste and disease, which, if you're late 0:20:13.520 --> 0:20:16.520 to the game, is a I'm not too far off 0:20:16.520 --> 0:20:19.399 when I say it's like the deer and elk version 0:20:19.600 --> 0:20:24.600 of mad cow disease. UM. New outbreaks in Texas, new 0:20:24.600 --> 0:20:30.920 outbreaks in Pennsylvania, one just recently occurred in Wisconsin, including 0:20:32.880 --> 0:20:36.840 it's one of the most, if not the most extensive 0:20:37.119 --> 0:20:41.520 web of dear shipments from a c w D positive 0:20:41.520 --> 0:20:46.080 facility on record. According to industry officials, there's a deer 0:20:46.119 --> 0:20:52.760 farm in Taylor County that sold three hundred and eighty 0:20:52.880 --> 0:20:59.600 seven deer to forty facilities in seven states. Since that 0:20:59.640 --> 0:21:06.359 we're in infected with c w D. Unbelievable. Do you 0:21:06.400 --> 0:21:12.960 still and no one wants to do anything to curb it, 0:21:13.080 --> 0:21:18.720 like anything meaningful, that something that's got to change. The 0:21:18.800 --> 0:21:24.240 deer farmers have power. Yeah, but how are they finding 0:21:24.240 --> 0:21:26.800 out there positive? So there's testing involved? Is it after 0:21:26.840 --> 0:21:30.480 the fact? I don't know so. I mean I would 0:21:30.440 --> 0:21:33.200 have imagine they get tested when they're shipped across state 0:21:33.240 --> 0:21:35.360 lines or there's got to be some kind of protocol 0:21:35.400 --> 0:21:37.080 that's going on for that, But that doesn't come in 0:21:37.119 --> 0:21:39.480 before they're sent out. In other words, there's not a 0:21:39.920 --> 0:21:41.679 there's not there's not a gating item to let him 0:21:41.720 --> 0:21:44.480 out of the state before. They don't know they're going 0:21:44.560 --> 0:21:47.240 to a facility and have a percent in faction rates 0:21:47.240 --> 0:21:49.080 inside of facility, and then you go look at where 0:21:49.119 --> 0:21:53.200 that facility is sent to m Yeah, I'm just wondering, 0:21:53.200 --> 0:21:54.320 how do you that that'd be a way to get 0:21:54.359 --> 0:21:56.440 in front of it. It's like they do with other things, 0:21:56.440 --> 0:21:58.240 get to get the test back before you green lit 0:21:58.240 --> 0:22:01.160 the ship. And well they're in the captive they're letting 0:22:01.160 --> 0:22:03.920 the captive deer industry. And it's like it's not even 0:22:04.160 --> 0:22:08.679 uh it's it's you know, in quotes, it's like captive 0:22:08.720 --> 0:22:12.000 deer hunting. It's not this is not like agriculture. It's 0:22:12.040 --> 0:22:14.960 not like supplying like venison. Okay, so I thought I'll 0:22:14.960 --> 0:22:19.119 hear something like this is this is mostly this is 0:22:19.200 --> 0:22:26.520 mostly like deer breeders sending around animals for like captive herds. Yeah, 0:22:26.560 --> 0:22:28.680 that will be used in a sort of quasi make 0:22:28.720 --> 0:22:33.560 believe hunting scenario. And they just keep grinding and grinding it, 0:22:33.600 --> 0:22:36.000 and people keep relying on the industry to self police. 0:22:37.000 --> 0:22:41.040 But they're overseen by the Department of Agriculture, not not 0:22:41.280 --> 0:22:45.760 fishing game. So yeah, and most people who are most 0:22:45.760 --> 0:22:47.480 people who are watching to give the U. S d 0:22:47.640 --> 0:22:52.320 A a pretty a failing grade on their willingness and 0:22:52.359 --> 0:22:55.480 ability to get out ahead of this and stop having 0:22:56.240 --> 0:23:01.359 these like captive deer breeders corrupt wild herd the Joe 0:23:01.400 --> 0:23:05.480 blow America hunts for from getting an infectious disease from 0:23:05.520 --> 0:23:08.080 captive deer. Right, I gotta think it would be handled 0:23:08.080 --> 0:23:11.160 differently if it was US Fish and Wildlife Service. Well, 0:23:11.160 --> 0:23:15.160 there's are the captive deer of native origin or their 0:23:15.200 --> 0:23:20.879 white tail or so you'd think there would be some 0:23:21.000 --> 0:23:27.200 jurisdictional responsibility of the state overseeing those that. There's. Yeah, 0:23:27.240 --> 0:23:29.520 there's been efforts on that behalf. Some states you can 0:23:29.520 --> 0:23:33.520 do it, some states you can't. But they the captive 0:23:33.600 --> 0:23:39.840 deer breeders are those herds fall under like an egg. 0:23:40.160 --> 0:23:47.680 Those herds fall under like an agricultural administration and are 0:23:47.760 --> 0:23:51.920 regulated through an agricultural industry rather than through wildlife. Even 0:23:51.920 --> 0:23:56.840 though these are like these are a native wildlife species 0:23:57.240 --> 0:24:01.520 that give an infectious disease too. Wild animals is still 0:24:01.520 --> 0:24:06.679 on a on an interstate federal level. They're oversaw U 0:24:06.760 --> 0:24:11.640 s d A, not not wildlife organizations. It's a mass man. 0:24:12.240 --> 0:24:18.640 Uh oh, we have if they come in. We're talking about, 0:24:18.800 --> 0:24:21.280 say George, because we're doing this. We talked about this 0:24:21.320 --> 0:24:24.320 call we're doing with with Phelps Game calls where we 0:24:24.359 --> 0:24:27.040 cut down a black walnut and O s A George. 0:24:27.080 --> 0:24:30.240 We're gonna make about a thousand turkey calls out of 0:24:30.240 --> 0:24:33.919 that walnut tree and about a thousand strikers out of 0:24:33.920 --> 0:24:36.600 the S. A. George. And we're talking about how that 0:24:36.640 --> 0:24:41.440 tree has so many damn names. Um, we're talking about 0:24:41.440 --> 0:24:44.280 burdock or like some people call it burdock. But it's uh, 0:24:44.359 --> 0:24:47.440 you're saying. Bow dark is a term for O. S 0:24:47.480 --> 0:24:50.720 A George And it comes from the French like bow 0:24:50.840 --> 0:24:54.119 to arc. You notice word anyone when you see O. 0:24:54.240 --> 0:24:59.320 S A George boa arc, it's like, uh bow you know, 0:25:00.040 --> 0:25:05.000 basically it's like bow wood that you'd make bows from 0:25:05.200 --> 0:25:09.560 bow dark and it's a derivation of that French word 0:25:11.320 --> 0:25:13.679 boat dark. No, I don't know, but both but like 0:25:13.760 --> 0:25:16.560 the derivation is boa dark. So when you hear like 0:25:16.960 --> 0:25:19.560 we're talking about how people would call it, I don't know, 0:25:20.560 --> 0:25:24.119 boat dark or burdock or whatever the hell. Um, this 0:25:24.160 --> 0:25:26.120 guy was just writing in like what you're what you're 0:25:26.119 --> 0:25:28.800 trying to say. What you're getting at is it's a 0:25:29.040 --> 0:25:34.520 you're you're sort of butchering a French word bow. It's 0:25:34.520 --> 0:25:39.639 like bow bo I asked d hyphen A r c 0:25:42.560 --> 0:25:44.600 here looked us up. Look tell me what looked us up. 0:25:45.760 --> 0:25:49.680 I've seen it spelled that way because it didn't, didn't Boone? 0:25:49.720 --> 0:25:52.120 When Boone moved to Missouri, didn't he live right now? 0:25:52.160 --> 0:25:56.800 On like the boat dark river? Why dark the common name? 0:25:58.080 --> 0:26:03.960 It's French from bow. Would I told you so? I said, right, 0:26:05.119 --> 0:26:10.680 bad Art, you knelled it would of the ark? Yeah, 0:26:10.720 --> 0:26:14.960 like like a boat or the flight of an arrow. 0:26:16.960 --> 0:26:18.959 That's good man. These turkey calls are getting cooler by 0:26:18.960 --> 0:26:23.840 the minute. Broughty brought Broughty do the book report Forest 0:26:23.840 --> 0:26:27.200 about the uh, what's going on? The latest, the latest 0:26:27.200 --> 0:26:29.959 twist and turn on on what America loves to call 0:26:30.080 --> 0:26:34.040 Yellowstoness wolves. Yeah, I like to call Wyoming's in Montana's wolves. 0:26:34.480 --> 0:26:36.840 I'm gonna talk about them, but you can't talk about 0:26:36.880 --> 0:26:38.800 them without talking about what's going on in a couple 0:26:38.920 --> 0:26:46.280 other states too. But anyway, late September, uh, northern border 0:26:46.480 --> 0:26:49.840 of Yellowstone Park, so just south of here a little ways, 0:26:50.560 --> 0:26:55.200 three wolves from Montana's from Yellowstones Junction, butte pack got 0:26:55.280 --> 0:26:59.240 killed on private land, um, which hit the news. It 0:26:59.320 --> 0:27:04.760 was two female pups and one female yearling. Um. So 0:27:04.880 --> 0:27:07.200 you know, people were kind of up in arms when 0:27:07.200 --> 0:27:09.920 the news hit about it that some of Yellowstones wolves 0:27:09.960 --> 0:27:14.560 got killed because the junction Buttepack is uh the most 0:27:14.720 --> 0:27:17.920 viewed wolf pack in the world, and they only spent 0:27:18.000 --> 0:27:23.639 about five two probably the other the other ones in 0:27:23.680 --> 0:27:28.359 the park. Um. But they they then right next to 0:27:28.440 --> 0:27:32.720 like a major road, so they're like seeing all that time. Yeah. 0:27:32.720 --> 0:27:34.640 If you ever drive through the park and all those 0:27:34.680 --> 0:27:38.840 people standing up around uh Lamar Valley standing around there, Yeah, 0:27:38.920 --> 0:27:40.680 that's what That's what they're trying to get a gander at. 0:27:40.840 --> 0:27:44.680 So but you know, wolves don't know there's a border there, 0:27:44.920 --> 0:27:48.760 some line drawn on a map. So they spend about 0:27:48.840 --> 0:27:51.560 five percent of their time outside the park, usually in 0:27:51.640 --> 0:27:58.760 late fall. And uh until recently that part of Montana, UH, 0:27:59.680 --> 0:28:02.600 the the state Fishing Game Agency limited the number of 0:28:02.600 --> 0:28:05.480 wolves that were taken from that area adjacent to the 0:28:05.480 --> 0:28:09.879 park's and northern boundary. But they recently changed the rags, 0:28:09.960 --> 0:28:13.920 loosen them up, UM and lifted restrictions on the number 0:28:13.920 --> 0:28:17.480 of wolves that can be taken there. And H part 0:28:17.520 --> 0:28:22.840 of those loosening of restriction changing of regulations was authorizing 0:28:22.920 --> 0:28:26.280 baiting from private property. But you know what you can bait. 0:28:27.400 --> 0:28:29.440 I just said this big argument yesterday because I thought 0:28:29.440 --> 0:28:30.879 I had I thought, I came up with like a 0:28:30.920 --> 0:28:35.399 secret idea. You can you can bait on public. You 0:28:35.440 --> 0:28:37.920 can bait wolves on public. You can't night hunt or 0:28:38.040 --> 0:28:42.840 use thermal vision to hunt wolves after dark on public. 0:28:43.840 --> 0:28:47.000 It's in the rags. I'm not doubting you, but I'm 0:28:47.040 --> 0:28:49.360 just I ran around. I read this thing that you're 0:28:49.360 --> 0:28:52.760 talking about, and I ran around. First off, that had 0:28:52.800 --> 0:28:54.760 a genius idea occurred to me when I'm not being 0:28:54.760 --> 0:28:57.719 that genius, because I thought it was like only private 0:28:57.800 --> 0:29:00.640 land baiting, which you mean basically, take could you find 0:29:00.640 --> 0:29:01.760 a deer to get hit on the side of the 0:29:01.840 --> 0:29:05.160 road and drag it out and into a good spot 0:29:05.200 --> 0:29:08.600 and sit there. Uh. And when I thought it was 0:29:08.680 --> 0:29:11.400 private only, a light bulb went off in my head. 0:29:11.880 --> 0:29:15.960 But then uh, Garrett Long pointed out in the actual 0:29:16.080 --> 0:29:20.640 rag you can bait public or private. You cannot night 0:29:20.760 --> 0:29:25.760 hunt on public. Can. I think probably the reason the 0:29:25.760 --> 0:29:30.520 private property thing came up is, uh, about a third 0:29:30.600 --> 0:29:34.640 of that northern boundary of Yellowstone borders private property, and 0:29:34.640 --> 0:29:38.640 these wolves were shot on private property. I'm assuming they 0:29:38.640 --> 0:29:41.600 were baited across the border where which maybe where they 0:29:41.640 --> 0:29:45.080 chasing livestock. You know, they were shot by hunters. It 0:29:45.200 --> 0:29:47.520 was you know, the wolf season had opened and they 0:29:47.520 --> 0:29:52.320 were shot by hunters. Um As as angry as some 0:29:52.400 --> 0:29:56.520 people got about this, it was all completely legal, right, nothing, 0:29:57.040 --> 0:30:00.520 no laws were violated. Um And I think what a 0:30:00.560 --> 0:30:04.080 lot of people forget is, you know, there's twenty seven 0:30:04.160 --> 0:30:07.320 wolves in that pack. Yeah, there's only twenty four now. 0:30:07.360 --> 0:30:12.000 But if they're managed as a renewable resource, those those 0:30:12.000 --> 0:30:15.960 three are going to get replaced, even though you know, 0:30:16.160 --> 0:30:18.600 some people think it's the end of the world for 0:30:19.000 --> 0:30:20.640 you know what the number one cause of death is 0:30:20.680 --> 0:30:23.560 for wolves. The number one cause of death is that 0:30:23.600 --> 0:30:26.160 a wolf gets killed by wolf. Yeah, yeah, how much 0:30:26.200 --> 0:30:30.600 I forget what she said now, her name's uh, Diane, 0:30:30.680 --> 0:30:35.400 Diane Boyd Right. How much? What percentage of the population 0:30:35.600 --> 0:30:40.479 dies off every year? It was a lot. So like 0:30:40.720 --> 0:30:43.880 if there was a hundred wolves in the yellow Stone 0:30:43.880 --> 0:30:46.920 Greater ecosystem, it would go down to something like fifty 0:30:47.200 --> 0:30:48.520 and then the next year and then the next year 0:30:48.600 --> 0:30:51.000 be back up to a does that every single year? 0:30:51.120 --> 0:30:55.240 And I think if this hadn't been wolves from that junction, 0:30:55.720 --> 0:30:59.360 beaute pack, they're just wolves from the middle of Montana somewhere, 0:31:00.080 --> 0:31:02.360 you know, it would have never made the news, but 0:31:02.880 --> 0:31:07.040 the media is pretty focused on Montana and Idaho's war 0:31:07.160 --> 0:31:10.840 on wolves these days. Yeah, and then there's the reporting 0:31:10.840 --> 0:31:12.600 problem that happens in the news all the time that 0:31:12.640 --> 0:31:14.840 I think is they're always using like, no matter where 0:31:14.840 --> 0:31:17.680 it happens, it's always yellow Stones wolves. So there was 0:31:17.680 --> 0:31:22.520 a story where our governor um killed the wolf, and 0:31:22.680 --> 0:31:25.800 I look at the headline, it's like Montana's governor kills 0:31:25.880 --> 0:31:28.120 Yellowstone wolf. I was like, that's so weird that our 0:31:28.160 --> 0:31:33.800 governor would go into Yellowstone and kill but lo and behold, 0:31:33.840 --> 0:31:37.160 it's not. Yeah, it was in Montana. There's no fences. 0:31:38.720 --> 0:31:40.680 He did kill one. Yelso's you could say he killed 0:31:40.720 --> 0:31:45.360 the Montana wolf. But they This is why this is 0:31:45.560 --> 0:31:47.880 this is partly fueling my thing where part of my 0:31:47.960 --> 0:31:54.000 life goal um is to get Yellowstone turned into a 0:31:55.200 --> 0:31:59.320 desert to a wilderness area like rip out, all the infrastructure, 0:31:59.400 --> 0:32:01.520 leave the highway is in place, it becomes a wilderness 0:32:01.560 --> 0:32:04.960 area that will give it enhanced protection, no motorized use. 0:32:05.600 --> 0:32:09.360 It's more protected. And then while the management goes to Montana, 0:32:09.400 --> 0:32:15.360 whelming you can have a raffle for the Yellowstone supertag 0:32:16.720 --> 0:32:19.960 go get them all like ten super tags, and it's 0:32:20.000 --> 0:32:26.040 like more protected, more pristine, less human involvement, restore human 0:32:26.040 --> 0:32:30.040 predators to the landscape. It's like better for everybody. It 0:32:30.040 --> 0:32:32.120 will never happen, Steven, You're gonna have torat a way 0:32:32.160 --> 0:32:34.800 to replace those tourist dollars that are gonna be cut 0:32:34.800 --> 0:32:39.719 out super tag lottery. I think that will do it, 0:32:40.960 --> 0:32:43.240 So I got to think on it. Over in Idaho, 0:32:44.880 --> 0:32:47.840 the Department of Fishing Game entered into an agreement with 0:32:47.960 --> 0:32:51.120 a nonprofit hunting group to reimburse hunters for the expense 0:32:51.160 --> 0:32:56.360 of a proven wolf kill holdment. What now, well, they're 0:32:56.400 --> 0:33:00.680 calling it a reimbursement program. Oh okay, I'm reading that 0:33:00.880 --> 0:33:04.800 as bounty on wolves, which you know whatever. Um. The 0:33:04.840 --> 0:33:08.920 Foundation for Wildlife Management is a hunting group that describes 0:33:09.040 --> 0:33:11.640 its mission as protecting deer and elk. So they coughed 0:33:11.720 --> 0:33:17.560 up two under grand to reimburse hunters for the expenses 0:33:17.560 --> 0:33:21.520 they incur while killing wolves. UM, two thousands you to 0:33:21.560 --> 0:33:24.120 turn in receipts. I'm assuming you got to bring a 0:33:24.120 --> 0:33:27.280 dead wolf. I don't know, but they have like here 0:33:27.280 --> 0:33:30.920 you go, two thousand per wolf and hunting units where 0:33:30.920 --> 0:33:35.840 fishing games as predators are keeping elk below objectives a 0:33:35.960 --> 0:33:38.560 thousand per wolf in the northern tip of the state 0:33:38.760 --> 0:33:44.200 and five hundred elsewhere. So this is getting attention is 0:33:44.320 --> 0:33:46.800 last wasn't It wasn't even last year when it was 0:33:46.840 --> 0:33:51.960 like i'd ho was killing of their wolves, which wasn't 0:33:52.120 --> 0:33:56.280 you know, even close to the whole whole story. Um. 0:33:56.320 --> 0:33:59.239 So there's a lot of people that are irritated about this, uh, 0:33:59.360 --> 0:34:02.160 this bounty system they got going on. They're not calling 0:34:02.160 --> 0:34:08.160 it a bounty, No, it's like an expense reimbursement brom huh. 0:34:08.400 --> 0:34:10.960 I don't think they're like that's got to be intentional 0:34:11.000 --> 0:34:13.560 that they're not. So they've got two grand, they're gonna 0:34:13.640 --> 0:34:17.200 dish it out in two thousand dollar increments two thousand, 0:34:17.200 --> 0:34:21.520 a thousand, or five hundred, depending on, yeah, where it is. 0:34:23.239 --> 0:34:27.319 But you know, like bounties don't usually work well for 0:34:27.400 --> 0:34:31.480 like coyotes and smaller predators. But I could see that 0:34:31.480 --> 0:34:35.280 that kind of money motivating some wolf unders. That's really interesting. 0:34:35.280 --> 0:34:37.359 I can see why people will be a little that's 0:34:37.360 --> 0:34:40.359 like a hard one on optics, man. Yeah, yeah, that's 0:34:40.360 --> 0:34:42.840 a hard one to manage right there. Well, once you 0:34:42.840 --> 0:34:46.200 put a dollar sign out there, then you have some 0:34:46.280 --> 0:34:50.279 motivation for an unethical behavior. Yeah, that's right. I can 0:34:50.360 --> 0:34:52.800 see it triggering it. Yeah. Yeah, because you see guys 0:34:52.840 --> 0:34:56.160 who mess with coyote bounties by like bringing them from 0:34:56.160 --> 0:35:00.440 other areas, other states, you know whatever. Yeah, I get 0:35:00.480 --> 0:35:02.040 I get what they're getting at it. I gotta I 0:35:02.040 --> 0:35:03.879 gotta think about it. I gotta sleep on that one. 0:35:04.400 --> 0:35:05.960 I knew that that was I knew that that I 0:35:06.040 --> 0:35:08.080 knew heard of that happening. I come here if I 0:35:08.120 --> 0:35:12.200 heard it in the Idaho Panhandle or something, or maybe 0:35:12.200 --> 0:35:15.880 Diane Boyd was talking about that program. That's a tricky one. Yeah, 0:35:16.080 --> 0:35:17.920 I get it, but I I just I'm trying to 0:35:17.920 --> 0:35:19.799 think about how to how to market that one, how 0:35:19.840 --> 0:35:23.439 to how to sell that one. So then finally over 0:35:23.480 --> 0:35:28.319 in Wisconsin, I'm sure everyone remembers last year, they had 0:35:28.360 --> 0:35:30.520 their first wolf hunt in a while. The quota was 0:35:30.560 --> 0:35:33.520 a hundred nineteen wolves, and they exceeded that by about 0:35:33.520 --> 0:35:35.960 a hundred wolves and a couple of days, I think 0:35:36.000 --> 0:35:38.839 it was. It's very quickly and the and the hunt 0:35:38.840 --> 0:35:44.080 got shut down. Um this year, there's a citizen panel 0:35:44.200 --> 0:35:50.719 that recommends h quotas for game animals, and that citizens 0:35:50.800 --> 0:35:54.640 panel recommended three hundred wolves this year. The d NR 0:35:54.719 --> 0:35:59.239 didn't listen to them and went with one thirty UM, 0:35:59.360 --> 0:36:03.319 which you I'd assume that they're thinking they had to 0:36:03.360 --> 0:36:08.480 react to what happened last year and avoid over harvest UM. 0:36:08.520 --> 0:36:10.799 And something I learned that that I did not know 0:36:12.000 --> 0:36:15.200 is half of those tags go to the Jibwe tribe 0:36:15.840 --> 0:36:18.960 and which and the and they have historically chosen not 0:36:19.040 --> 0:36:22.800 to use those tags. So essentially there's gonna be sixty 0:36:22.840 --> 0:36:25.640 five tags available to hunters this year. You know that 0:36:25.640 --> 0:36:28.160 that that resource split is something you see around the 0:36:28.160 --> 0:36:31.520 country on different wildlife issues. Like when I was living 0:36:31.520 --> 0:36:33.479 in Washington, we would do a lot of clam dig 0:36:33.480 --> 0:36:37.080 and and they would have on some of those beaches 0:36:37.080 --> 0:36:40.480 on the Olympic Peninsula, there'd be a there'd be a 0:36:40.719 --> 0:36:44.440 biological assessment that was done in tandem between the tribes 0:36:44.480 --> 0:36:47.319 and the state, and they would do, like let's say 0:36:47.320 --> 0:36:51.680 they're looking at razor clams. They would agree on a 0:36:51.800 --> 0:36:55.640 razor clam abundance, right, they didn't agree on like what 0:36:55.760 --> 0:36:59.800 total harvest should look like. And then they whatever that 0:37:00.040 --> 0:37:02.880 total harvest should look like for the year, they just 0:37:02.960 --> 0:37:07.520 split it fift so went to the tribes and the 0:37:07.560 --> 0:37:11.080 tribes could conduct their own thing, do commercial digs whatever, 0:37:11.120 --> 0:37:13.680 they had their end of it, and then the state 0:37:14.200 --> 0:37:17.680 would deal with their half. However, they dealt with their 0:37:17.760 --> 0:37:23.480 half through you know, recreational clam digging. So like that, 0:37:23.480 --> 0:37:29.400 that concept of doing a tribal state resource split. But 0:37:29.440 --> 0:37:32.120 it does get a little skewed when it's gonna go unused. 0:37:32.120 --> 0:37:34.200 But if it goes unused, then you imagine the next 0:37:34.320 --> 0:37:38.479 year's recommended that the next years recommended harvest might be higher. Yeah, 0:37:39.360 --> 0:37:43.719 and interestingly, the a Jibware currently suing the federal or 0:37:43.800 --> 0:37:49.279 there let's see, yeah, federal lawsuit to cancel the wolf 0:37:49.280 --> 0:37:53.960 Fund altogether, arguing it violates their treaty rights. Um, they 0:37:53.960 --> 0:37:56.759 don't harvest wolves because they view them as family. But 0:37:56.880 --> 0:38:01.240 they also believe that Wisconsin failed to use sound biological 0:38:01.280 --> 0:38:04.640 principles in the past. You know, when setting these quotas, 0:38:05.719 --> 0:38:08.920 We'll see where that goes. It's a tricky one all around, man, 0:38:08.920 --> 0:38:10.600 because the minute you start talking about how you believe 0:38:10.640 --> 0:38:13.000 in wolf harvest, people think you're anti wolf. I'm like anything, 0:38:13.000 --> 0:38:16.879 but anti wolf. Like I don't think I don't like us, uh, 0:38:17.320 --> 0:38:20.719 just me speaking personally. I don't think that humans are 0:38:20.760 --> 0:38:27.319 really in a position to decide that certain wildlife species 0:38:27.320 --> 0:38:31.239 should be like eliminated from the earth. That's like a 0:38:31.320 --> 0:38:34.120 level you know, we have I think a moral ethical 0:38:34.200 --> 0:38:39.480 responsibility to keep native wildlife on the ground, but I 0:38:39.520 --> 0:38:42.440 also think that they should be manage and hunt for. 0:38:43.280 --> 0:38:47.280 I agree, and and like, if if the last decade 0:38:47.640 --> 0:38:50.319 or longer has taught us anything, is that you can 0:38:50.360 --> 0:38:54.200 absolutely have wolf hunting and wolves. Because we've got wolf 0:38:54.239 --> 0:38:56.520 hunting now for years, and we got more wolves than 0:38:56.560 --> 0:39:00.640 we have when we started. So you will fun plan, 0:39:00.760 --> 0:39:04.680 don't you know? You Oh, just messing around. Yeah, I 0:39:04.680 --> 0:39:06.520 got well, I got a couple of irons in the 0:39:06.520 --> 0:39:11.960 fire them the new snowmobiles burned, burned a hole in 0:39:11.960 --> 0:39:16.040 my pocket. Oh yeah that Um no, we got a couple. Yeah, 0:39:16.120 --> 0:39:17.799 But I gotta I gotta make a couple of phone 0:39:17.840 --> 0:39:20.160 calls and the people I've been very interested, uh and 0:39:20.600 --> 0:39:26.520 predator calling four of them, h which is a little 0:39:26.520 --> 0:39:28.680 bit tricky. There's these I don't want to see what 0:39:28.760 --> 0:39:30.440 these boys are doing because I haven't like tested it 0:39:30.480 --> 0:39:34.640 myself yet. There's an emerging strategy. I've been catching windows. 0:39:35.680 --> 0:39:37.600 This is unredated. When I thought I had that little 0:39:37.600 --> 0:39:42.320 break through his road kill deer. But I haven't done that. Uh, alright, 0:39:42.360 --> 0:39:46.359 So continuing on with continuing on with the I think 0:39:46.360 --> 0:39:50.480 we've been exploring lately, which is fisherman harrassment, Which how's 0:39:50.520 --> 0:39:52.759 that even the thing? But like hunter har askedment, I get, 0:39:52.800 --> 0:39:55.680 you know, like whatever you're out duck hunting, some person 0:39:55.800 --> 0:39:58.960 comes out freaking out on you. But fisherman harassment is 0:39:59.760 --> 0:40:02.120 we We've got a lot of stories for listeners about 0:40:02.160 --> 0:40:07.680 being out fishing and having dock owners come out and 0:40:08.040 --> 0:40:10.320 try to scare the fish away from their dock area, 0:40:11.080 --> 0:40:17.360 scared fishing her ass, shoot garden hoses at fishermen and 0:40:17.400 --> 0:40:19.239 whatever you can do to like ruin their fishing, which 0:40:19.280 --> 0:40:22.640 is illegal. But this one came in from Acosta County, 0:40:22.719 --> 0:40:24.680 and uh that that holds a special place in my 0:40:24.719 --> 0:40:29.040 heart because I grew up south of there and I 0:40:29.120 --> 0:40:33.760 used to Uh, I used to trap in Mosquegon County, 0:40:34.120 --> 0:40:38.120 Diego County, but then for a bunch of years in December, 0:40:38.239 --> 0:40:41.280 late December January, we would trap up in Macosta County. 0:40:41.320 --> 0:40:44.279 So we go up to Macosta County and trap through 0:40:44.280 --> 0:40:47.279 the ice for beaver and muskrats. Now it's kind of 0:40:47.280 --> 0:40:48.640 like the highlight of the trap and you I used 0:40:48.640 --> 0:40:51.120 to love hanging out up there. Um, and these guys 0:40:51.160 --> 0:40:54.719 run into They've had this, uh a lot of encounters 0:40:55.320 --> 0:40:58.840 with an anti angler. What's the world coming to it? 0:40:59.000 --> 0:41:03.319 Was the anti angler. He would uh used to go 0:41:03.440 --> 0:41:05.520 down and if you tried to fish his docks. So 0:41:05.600 --> 0:41:07.759 if you're going along and you're pitching jigs under his dock, 0:41:07.880 --> 0:41:11.680 this dude to run out yell at you. But recently, 0:41:11.719 --> 0:41:13.680 this guy is out doing yard work and you had 0:41:13.760 --> 0:41:17.160 one of those backpack leaf floors, like a like a 0:41:17.239 --> 0:41:21.640 leaf flower strtus back and as they're coming by trolling, 0:41:21.840 --> 0:41:24.880 he runs down to his dock and starts leaf blowing 0:41:24.920 --> 0:41:28.239 the water, blowing the water every which way in the 0:41:28.320 --> 0:41:35.200 effort to spook off fish. Um. So this is interesting. 0:41:35.280 --> 0:41:39.240 We have two uh, two law enforcements. Forward, I should 0:41:39.280 --> 0:41:41.440 I should call you guys are law enforcement who can 0:41:41.480 --> 0:41:45.040 speak freely because you're a former correct, So now you 0:41:45.040 --> 0:41:49.640 can tell people what you really think. So Paul was 0:41:49.680 --> 0:41:54.920 a former regular policeman, sheriff's deputy, sheriff steputy. That's not 0:41:54.960 --> 0:41:57.600 a regular policeman, I mean, not a game ward, not 0:41:57.680 --> 0:42:01.840 a game warden. Correct. Sheriff's deputy. Yeah, and Sam was 0:42:01.880 --> 0:42:05.759 an Arizona game warden. Correct. So I want to ask 0:42:05.760 --> 0:42:08.600 each you guys, you get a call from an angler 0:42:09.160 --> 0:42:11.680 who says, I'm out fishing right now, and I'm coming 0:42:11.760 --> 0:42:13.919 by a dock and there's a man blowing his leaf 0:42:14.000 --> 0:42:17.800 blower around in the water to scare fish away. Um, 0:42:18.000 --> 0:42:20.200 do you like turn the sirens on and race over? 0:42:20.239 --> 0:42:24.080 Like what would be your attitude? Yeah, there's certainly no sirens. 0:42:26.440 --> 0:42:29.840 Uh my, my first thought would be to call the 0:42:29.840 --> 0:42:34.920 game warden because it's obviously uh wildlife related. Yeah, because 0:42:35.040 --> 0:42:36.719 in Montana, at least, you know, we've got a whole 0:42:36.719 --> 0:42:40.680 set of rules that fit under game laws. If they 0:42:40.680 --> 0:42:43.680 weren't available, it would be just under normal laws, would 0:42:43.719 --> 0:42:47.640 be disorderly conduct, which everybody calls disturbing the peace and 0:42:48.200 --> 0:42:50.239 kind of the catch all, or you might you might 0:42:50.280 --> 0:42:53.240 get a disturbing the peace type situation going potentially, Yeah, 0:42:53.840 --> 0:42:55.600 that would be the that would be where it would 0:42:55.600 --> 0:42:59.080 fall under in Montana if it if the game warden 0:42:59.200 --> 0:43:03.719 wasn't there to write wildlife ticket. Yeah, And that was 0:43:04.280 --> 0:43:08.200 often the case where the local sheriffs or police department 0:43:08.200 --> 0:43:10.600 would get ahold of us when it was a wildlife 0:43:10.600 --> 0:43:14.440 related thing, and vice versa. When we got into drugs 0:43:14.480 --> 0:43:17.120 and drunk drivers, we got ahold of you guys. I 0:43:17.160 --> 0:43:20.239 didn't want to deal with it. The first thing it 0:43:20.320 --> 0:43:21.800 hits me is, you know, is there any way I 0:43:21.840 --> 0:43:26.840 could deescalate that thing. Sometimes these people out trying to harass, 0:43:26.920 --> 0:43:29.600 whether you're a hunter and angler, want the publicity out 0:43:29.600 --> 0:43:32.319 of it and make a big issue out of it. 0:43:33.080 --> 0:43:36.520 And in fact we had when you're saying, the harasser 0:43:37.600 --> 0:43:41.319 wants broader attention, wants the attention. And the next thing, 0:43:41.360 --> 0:43:44.240 you know, next weekend there's three people out with leaf blowers. 0:43:46.960 --> 0:43:52.359 They started movement. Yeah that's the leaf blowing program. But yeah, 0:43:52.400 --> 0:43:55.080 I would if I received that call. There's nothing on 0:43:55.160 --> 0:43:57.319 the books from a game and fish at that point 0:43:58.160 --> 0:44:02.640 dealing with harassing anglers. It was literally hunters and hunter 0:44:02.760 --> 0:44:06.960 harassment um, which which we did find many many times 0:44:07.640 --> 0:44:11.840 where they just sought publicity. They just wanted officers to 0:44:11.920 --> 0:44:14.759 show up and and make their case and it was 0:44:14.840 --> 0:44:17.960 on the news, and so you de escalate it. So 0:44:18.360 --> 0:44:20.160 that's what I would have certainly done in this case. 0:44:20.200 --> 0:44:22.279 What does walk me through it? What does that wind 0:44:22.320 --> 0:44:26.040 up looking like? Well, I probably get ahold of in 0:44:26.600 --> 0:44:30.239 how many geese did you shoot? And so if I 0:44:30.320 --> 0:44:34.360 got a call, obviously there was a person that called 0:44:35.000 --> 0:44:37.719 the dispatch, and I would get in touch with them 0:44:37.800 --> 0:44:40.120 and see if I can meet them, and go all right, 0:44:40.480 --> 0:44:43.040 here's this guy. He doesn't want you. You don't want 0:44:43.040 --> 0:44:45.880 to meet with the fisherman? Yeah? Yeah, And I mean 0:44:46.000 --> 0:44:49.120 there's this whole agg here. This guy obviously doesn't watch 0:44:49.160 --> 0:44:51.839 you out here. The more you make an issue out 0:44:51.840 --> 0:44:53.960 of this, the more likely he's probably going to get 0:44:54.040 --> 0:44:57.759 somebody's doing it too. Just back out of there, really, Yeah, 0:44:58.040 --> 0:45:02.080 And then i'd probably go talk to the guy. Okay, Okay, 0:45:02.080 --> 0:45:04.200 I just say, come on here, let's try to reach 0:45:04.280 --> 0:45:07.279 some kind of a balance. Why are you doing this? Well, 0:45:07.360 --> 0:45:09.799 every time I go down there and try to read 0:45:09.880 --> 0:45:12.320 my book, here's some guy and one time he almost 0:45:12.360 --> 0:45:16.440 hooked me in the air. Okay, I can understand that, 0:45:16.680 --> 0:45:19.960 you know, And but let's think of some other options. 0:45:20.040 --> 0:45:22.200 You know, this guy had a kid with him, he 0:45:22.320 --> 0:45:24.719 wanted to introduce him to fishing, and how his whole 0:45:24.800 --> 0:45:29.799 day was Ruined's let's talk it out. Yeah, no tickets, Yeah, 0:45:30.400 --> 0:45:34.560 I'd agree with that therapy session. That's what you know 0:45:34.760 --> 0:45:39.719 you feel better already in readings saying so we're gonna 0:45:39.760 --> 0:45:42.680 talk more about Sam's book. Sam's book is our stories 0:45:42.719 --> 0:45:46.280 of the past in Arizona game range of remembering the outlaws, 0:45:46.440 --> 0:45:48.080 and the thing that strut me most in the book 0:45:48.160 --> 0:45:51.279 is you aren't. Um. You don't wake up in the 0:45:51.360 --> 0:45:54.640 morning wanting to bust someone's balls. Only a few people 0:45:56.280 --> 0:46:00.160 that was generally like a generally lenient Yeah, no, lenienst 0:46:00.160 --> 0:46:04.680 the right word. Um, like you, uh you didn't, you know, 0:46:04.800 --> 0:46:07.640 you don't seem to have real acts to grind well, 0:46:07.760 --> 0:46:10.239 you know, it's like I think I told career. You 0:46:10.320 --> 0:46:14.080 know these people that uh, well well, let's just say this. 0:46:14.880 --> 0:46:19.080 For those of us that are actively involved with hunting 0:46:19.120 --> 0:46:23.600 and angling, I mean almost avid, and that means greedy. 0:46:24.440 --> 0:46:28.080 If you haven't violated a game and fish regulation, I'd 0:46:28.120 --> 0:46:31.560 be surprised. And so mistakes happen all the time. And 0:46:31.640 --> 0:46:35.640 you look at the people out there. Of them are 0:46:35.719 --> 0:46:40.800 are good, you know, conservationist, enjoying recreation and passing on 0:46:40.880 --> 0:46:45.399 a tradition, and accidents happen. Certainly you recognize those kinds 0:46:45.440 --> 0:46:48.960 of cases and walk into it gently. But the real 0:46:49.080 --> 0:46:52.080 bad guys, darn right, I stayed awake at night. I 0:46:52.200 --> 0:46:54.120 wanted those guys and I was going to put them 0:46:54.160 --> 0:46:57.239 out of business. Uh, some of those stories are in there. 0:47:07.040 --> 0:47:10.560 Can I get squeezing? A follow up siren question? Oh? Yeah? 0:47:10.680 --> 0:47:15.759 How how how civilians use it to mean the lights? No? No, 0:47:15.880 --> 0:47:21.080 go ahead? No different? So everybody's seen it. I think 0:47:21.320 --> 0:47:23.759 when you're driving along and all of a sudden, like uh, 0:47:24.160 --> 0:47:26.320 some sort of law enforcement officers next to you, and 0:47:26.480 --> 0:47:29.680 lights come on and they buzz down whatever X road 0:47:29.760 --> 0:47:33.120 or highway for seemingly a shorter distance, and then the 0:47:33.239 --> 0:47:36.320 lights go off, and then he just continue about that happens. 0:47:36.480 --> 0:47:39.200 That happens all the time. That's what I think is 0:47:39.239 --> 0:47:41.839 going on. Okay, please, I think that they got an 0:47:41.880 --> 0:47:46.440 emergency call and then someone called sit there mind. Okay, 0:47:47.280 --> 0:47:51.759 that's that's a he is like, I gotta get home 0:47:51.840 --> 0:47:55.440 real quick because I gotta go number two. See. Is 0:47:55.520 --> 0:47:59.200 I gotta another errand to run? Or indeed, is I 0:47:59.320 --> 0:48:02.640 have this power? I'm just gonna like a little bit. 0:48:02.800 --> 0:48:06.800 Why do you do that? I'd say, sometimes all of 0:48:06.880 --> 0:48:12.439 the above could be true. That's a diplomatic answer. I've seen. 0:48:12.800 --> 0:48:17.800 I've seen guys, you know, after leaving I don't know 0:48:18.600 --> 0:48:21.120 the taco joint. You're like, I need to get back 0:48:21.160 --> 0:48:25.960 to the office right now, um and uh and and 0:48:26.239 --> 0:48:28.480 use the old lights and siren. Yeah. I mean that's 0:48:28.560 --> 0:48:36.719 usually night shift thing, but the more often than not, 0:48:36.960 --> 0:48:41.640 it's something that is like an emergent call but not 0:48:41.920 --> 0:48:47.279 necessarily worth risking anything for. And you just catch a 0:48:47.360 --> 0:48:48.920 red light and you're like, man, I'm gonna sit here 0:48:49.000 --> 0:48:50.719 for five minutes or I'm gonna get through this one 0:48:50.760 --> 0:48:55.560 and keep rolling. That's probably the most common instead of 0:48:55.640 --> 0:48:58.399 causing all the chaos of going down the street. Yeah, 0:48:58.440 --> 0:49:00.879 because you know how hard it is that drive, even 0:49:00.960 --> 0:49:04.919 through Bozeman, much less a big city, um in rush 0:49:04.960 --> 0:49:07.560 hour traffic, and you just sit there for hours. And 0:49:07.640 --> 0:49:10.319 so sometimes a call comes up that you're like, man, 0:49:10.360 --> 0:49:13.200 I just you know, I could be there and in 0:49:13.560 --> 0:49:15.880 well in Gallanton County and be there in ten minutes, 0:49:15.920 --> 0:49:19.080 or I'm gonna not be three blocks yet in ten minutes. 0:49:19.120 --> 0:49:22.520 So you get through it, just kind of get through 0:49:22.560 --> 0:49:25.800 the the cluster and move on. We should do a 0:49:25.920 --> 0:49:28.600 whole we should do a show like a weekly show 0:49:28.680 --> 0:49:31.600 called Ask a Cop and get a whole panel of 0:49:31.680 --> 0:49:33.600 cops and you ask them like why do you guys 0:49:33.680 --> 0:49:37.319 always you know, I know a couple. Did you ever 0:49:37.360 --> 0:49:42.359 get involved with any um montannas stream acts like access law? Yeah, yeah, 0:49:42.440 --> 0:49:46.920 there's there's. Because I'm obviously worked in this area, I 0:49:47.000 --> 0:49:48.800 have to be careful who I talked about. But the 0:49:49.120 --> 0:49:53.000 um you know, there's several landowners I'm reading between the 0:49:53.040 --> 0:49:56.960 lines on that one nearby here, um nearby, you know 0:49:57.040 --> 0:50:00.239 in Bozeman, being a big fishing community has got you know, 0:50:00.680 --> 0:50:04.320 just loads of people parked all the way down around 0:50:04.400 --> 0:50:08.040 all the bridges, and we have guys who have you know, 0:50:08.160 --> 0:50:10.799 cameras out ready to you know, if you take one 0:50:10.880 --> 0:50:15.240 step above high water mark there they have motion activated 0:50:15.320 --> 0:50:17.520 cameras and alarms on their phones and they're calling and 0:50:17.600 --> 0:50:22.359 they want everybody sided. And it's typically I'm sure Sam 0:50:22.480 --> 0:50:28.520 can can relate, and then it's typically spurred on by 0:50:28.600 --> 0:50:32.400 somebody and you know some fishermen with bad behavior causing 0:50:32.480 --> 0:50:34.880 them to get a burn unto their saddle about it. 0:50:35.520 --> 0:50:39.239 But we've had cases where you know, bridges, there's not 0:50:39.320 --> 0:50:45.719 really great parking areas, and we suspect the landowners who 0:50:45.800 --> 0:50:50.120 typically would call every day with with fishing or you know, 0:50:50.239 --> 0:50:54.080 access issues. Those are the bridges. We would show up 0:50:54.120 --> 0:50:58.240 and there'd be you know, create a nails spread around 0:50:58.280 --> 0:51:00.759 in the ditch, so everybody who parked ended up with 0:51:00.840 --> 0:51:04.120 flat tires and limited the numbers of people who would 0:51:04.120 --> 0:51:05.879 go out there and try and park in the ditch. 0:51:06.960 --> 0:51:09.359 But yeah, we dealt with it fairly often. And then 0:51:09.440 --> 0:51:10.960 you know a lot of times. You know, I had 0:51:11.000 --> 0:51:14.200 a guy who he's a young college kid. He was 0:51:14.239 --> 0:51:15.759 trying to do the right thing. There was a bank 0:51:15.800 --> 0:51:19.360 in the river that he couldn't stay in without swimming, 0:51:19.680 --> 0:51:24.719 and he was outside of the bank. Now maybe it 0:51:24.880 --> 0:51:26.239 was just a couple of feet he had to he 0:51:26.320 --> 0:51:28.279 had to go around a rock to get around, and 0:51:28.360 --> 0:51:32.160 he came. You know, the guy had the motion activated 0:51:32.160 --> 0:51:34.319 alarm on his phone, had the recording by the time 0:51:34.400 --> 0:51:37.440 I got there, and everything on camera, and said, I 0:51:37.520 --> 0:51:41.600 don't care he was trespassing. I want him sighted. And 0:51:43.440 --> 0:51:47.239 he's dealt with it enough that he just he he 0:51:47.400 --> 0:51:51.440 hasn't signed very well. The guy. You know, if he 0:51:51.480 --> 0:51:53.840 had known the law, I'm sure probably would have avoided 0:51:53.880 --> 0:51:58.440 that whole side of the river. But yeah, written a 0:51:58.480 --> 0:52:01.360 few tickets that I've almost like I needed to apologize for. 0:52:02.239 --> 0:52:05.440 He's gonna wear kid's gonna wear that river bank out well, 0:52:05.560 --> 0:52:07.839 you know, good for nothing anymore. After he comes walking through. 0:52:09.480 --> 0:52:11.719 Uh oh, guy wrote in here's another like, this is 0:52:11.800 --> 0:52:16.359 an access question. So he's talking about legally accessing landlocked 0:52:17.480 --> 0:52:20.719 public land. This is this is a good topic of discussion. UM. 0:52:22.520 --> 0:52:24.600 Landlocked public land is like where you have state or 0:52:24.640 --> 0:52:27.239 federal land and it's surrounded on all sides by private land. 0:52:27.280 --> 0:52:31.000 There's no public access road cutting through it, which makes 0:52:31.040 --> 0:52:34.440 it sort of like de facto private land. Um. More 0:52:34.480 --> 0:52:37.400 and more people are using helicopters to access that stuff 0:52:37.480 --> 0:52:40.640 if the land management agency that holds the land allows 0:52:40.719 --> 0:52:44.080 you to land a helicopter on it. But this guy's wondering, Um, 0:52:45.120 --> 0:52:50.360 why can't you parachute onto the land? I see, of 0:52:50.440 --> 0:52:54.640 course you can extraction, just throw a military term at 0:52:54.640 --> 0:52:57.879 it becomes an issue. But remember that John Wayne movie 0:52:57.920 --> 0:53:00.480 Green Brays and they caught that like high profile target 0:53:00.920 --> 0:53:04.760 and green and a cook that dude to those balloons, 0:53:05.440 --> 0:53:07.600 and that plane came by and hits the string and 0:53:07.680 --> 0:53:10.880 pulls the guy into the back of the plane. You 0:53:10.920 --> 0:53:12.759 gotta get a rig like that in a long time. 0:53:13.800 --> 0:53:16.600 Uh yeah, so you can parachute in I don't know 0:53:16.640 --> 0:53:20.680 how you can get out of there. Yeah, I think 0:53:20.680 --> 0:53:24.239 you gotta hire that helicopter short haul your way out 0:53:24.280 --> 0:53:26.839 of there with a long line. If you can't land, yeah, 0:53:27.000 --> 0:53:28.520 or if you're just moving there, I guess you could 0:53:28.520 --> 0:53:33.319 parachute in. And what's what's the attentionve? What do you after? 0:53:33.480 --> 0:53:36.759 You hunting or fishing? Uh? He does? I'm assuming he 0:53:36.800 --> 0:53:40.759 saw about honey he wants to go hunt it. So yeah, 0:53:41.000 --> 0:53:44.400 I guess good after it and then have a pickup. 0:53:46.400 --> 0:53:47.799 I think I'm gonna get into this a little bit, 0:53:47.880 --> 0:53:50.080 this parachuting on the places. I just get to figure 0:53:50.080 --> 0:53:52.239 out how to get out. That's a good idea. It's 0:53:52.239 --> 0:53:53.840 a great question. But yeah, I don't see, and it 0:53:53.880 --> 0:53:55.960 would because a lot of stuff you can't because you 0:53:56.080 --> 0:53:58.520 cannot land the aircraft on it. But there's no thing 0:53:58.560 --> 0:54:01.400 with you just landing there in your boot. But you 0:54:01.480 --> 0:54:03.640 still gotta get picked up. Can't you jump out of 0:54:03.680 --> 0:54:08.200 a helicopter? You know that? That's another good question. I'm 0:54:08.280 --> 0:54:11.080 guessing there's some like if you're if you go on 0:54:11.160 --> 0:54:13.040 unlet's see, you're going on to a part of a 0:54:13.200 --> 0:54:17.160 land agency that says no landing helicopters. I wonder how 0:54:17.239 --> 0:54:19.440 they view. I'm sure we can get a concrete answer 0:54:19.480 --> 0:54:22.920 to this. What what the airspace implication is? Because you're 0:54:22.960 --> 0:54:25.160 not gonna be like cute and have it be that 0:54:25.280 --> 0:54:29.040 the helicopter never touched and you just hopped off. I'm 0:54:29.120 --> 0:54:33.200 guessing that they're gonna there's a point at which they're 0:54:33.200 --> 0:54:36.160 gonna not really care about how clever you are that 0:54:36.320 --> 0:54:40.400 it's like it didn't actually touch. Yeah, I did that 0:54:40.560 --> 0:54:42.560 watch and I forgot to take my helmet off with 0:54:42.680 --> 0:54:47.319 the mike oh jumping off the skid and right at 0:54:47.360 --> 0:54:51.080 the end, I remembered I still had that help. That 0:54:51.120 --> 0:54:54.759 would have been stupid. Um. Yeah, that's a great question, man, 0:54:54.800 --> 0:54:58.960 It's it's interesting to think about. And uh yeah, no, 0:54:59.120 --> 0:55:00.440 I don't know. I don't know how it would go, 0:55:00.640 --> 0:55:02.880 Like just to jumping out of a helicopter, I'm guessing 0:55:02.920 --> 0:55:05.000 that you have to stay that that thing has to 0:55:05.000 --> 0:55:07.760 stay a certain distance above what does it? Like parks 0:55:07.800 --> 0:55:10.919 have it right, like National parks You fly helicopter over park, 0:55:10.960 --> 0:55:13.279 but you have to do a ceiling and you can't 0:55:13.320 --> 0:55:19.320 go on even shoot video or you know whatever commercial 0:55:19.440 --> 0:55:24.440 pictures in the wilderness out of a helicopter. You cannot 0:55:25.440 --> 0:55:32.120 Oh really really. I just remember that because a guy gosh, 0:55:32.200 --> 0:55:34.600 I think it was this guy named Chris Davenport, a 0:55:34.680 --> 0:55:38.600 skier that skied all in Colorado's fourteeners and he had 0:55:38.640 --> 0:55:42.360 a bunch of images and I think video that was 0:55:43.320 --> 0:55:46.560 or he had maybe even done some accessing through helicopter. 0:55:46.600 --> 0:55:49.279 I can't remember exactly what by know that they shut 0:55:49.400 --> 0:55:53.960 him down for the helicopters use stuff. We had an 0:55:53.960 --> 0:55:57.880 interesting thing coming into uh. Last note, A guy was 0:55:58.200 --> 0:56:01.120 a guy named Gilbert. That's probably first dude named Gilbert 0:56:01.400 --> 0:56:05.279 right us. Guy named Gilbert road In. He's hunting in 0:56:05.320 --> 0:56:11.840 Illinois this weekend and discovered an interesting regulation. This is 0:56:11.880 --> 0:56:16.360 a quote road to kill deer may only be claimed 0:56:16.680 --> 0:56:21.040 by those individuals who are residents of Illinois and are 0:56:21.120 --> 0:56:26.960 not delinquent in child support payments. Very specific. I think Sam, 0:56:27.520 --> 0:56:29.000 you'll be able to speak to this. But isn't it 0:56:29.120 --> 0:56:31.200 true that in a lot of states you can't hunt 0:56:31.200 --> 0:56:33.640 and fish and have a hunting license and fishing license 0:56:33.680 --> 0:56:36.240 if you're delinquent? I believe so. I think it's getting 0:56:36.280 --> 0:56:39.200 more and more. When we used to sell fishing licenses, 0:56:40.040 --> 0:56:43.640 there's a question on you. Are you delinquent? You have 0:56:43.719 --> 0:56:46.279 to be a citizen Illinois. So the driver a driver 0:56:46.440 --> 0:56:48.359 hits a deer, the driver says, I don't want the deer. 0:56:49.520 --> 0:56:52.920 The next guy in line can't be from Wisconsin. He's 0:56:52.920 --> 0:56:55.560 gonna be from Illinois, and he's got to be up 0:56:55.680 --> 0:57:00.839 on his child support. Good. He could be like, well, 0:57:00.880 --> 0:57:04.360 I murdered some people, but I'm cool on child support 0:57:04.760 --> 0:57:07.839 and be like, well, go ahead, or at least he's 0:57:07.880 --> 0:57:11.359 getting a process and delivering it to his child. Yeah, 0:57:11.600 --> 0:57:13.040 maybe he's like, no, no, no, you don't get it, man, 0:57:13.160 --> 0:57:17.360 I'm giving the deer too much. Cut your break here, 0:57:18.440 --> 0:57:20.920 all right, bumping down, I'm gonna talk more about Paul Louis. Paulows, 0:57:20.960 --> 0:57:23.160 you're cool with me dropping that motor off? Right? Yeah, 0:57:23.720 --> 0:57:26.280 I have had it. We gotta show roomy. You can 0:57:27.360 --> 0:57:29.560 fill up as much as you want. Just put stuff 0:57:29.560 --> 0:57:31.040 in there and leave it there. It's like a big 0:57:31.080 --> 0:57:37.200 storage in it for you, you know you. So here's 0:57:37.200 --> 0:57:38.200 the thing I wanted to one of the things I 0:57:38.240 --> 0:57:40.479 want to talk about. So Paul is the founder f HF. 0:57:40.960 --> 0:57:42.640 So when you see us on the show running around 0:57:42.760 --> 0:57:46.400 with um a vinyl harness m that's an f HF 0:57:46.480 --> 0:57:49.840 binal harness. I first I don't know if I've ever 0:57:49.840 --> 0:57:54.160 even told you the story. I first my late friend 0:57:54.760 --> 0:57:59.320 Eric Kern, who died years ago. Now I remember he 0:57:59.600 --> 0:58:04.960 was the first person that made me wear of your 0:58:05.040 --> 0:58:11.360 products a long time ago. Yeah, and yeah, back then 0:58:11.400 --> 0:58:16.520 I was doing basically all custom stuff. And uh yeah, 0:58:16.560 --> 0:58:19.600 I don't remember I got asked the question before how 0:58:21.160 --> 0:58:24.440 how that first interaction happened. I don't, like I remember 0:58:24.480 --> 0:58:27.640 getting an email from Joe Rogan, who was introduced to 0:58:27.720 --> 0:58:31.040 it through you guys, but I don't. I think I 0:58:31.080 --> 0:58:34.080 got a random phone call from which I don't answer 0:58:34.120 --> 0:58:35.840 a lot of phone calls. I don't know the number for. 0:58:36.400 --> 0:58:39.960 There's a Bozeman numbers. I answered it, you know, for me, 0:58:40.080 --> 0:58:44.760 it's like, hey is Steven Ronella. I'm like, you're bullshit. Um, 0:58:46.240 --> 0:58:48.120 I think that's how it was there it was. It 0:58:48.200 --> 0:58:50.400 might have been an email and and yeah, so we 0:58:51.240 --> 0:58:53.880 as I made you a couple of custom ones early on. 0:58:55.160 --> 0:58:57.920 And uh, because you were a stitching vinyal harnesses that 0:58:58.520 --> 0:59:01.520 just on your free time as a a cop. Yeah yeah, 0:59:01.560 --> 0:59:03.400 I was sidegig trying to make a little extra money, 0:59:04.120 --> 0:59:07.320 and uh yeah, I started doing custom work. Uh, like 0:59:07.400 --> 0:59:10.240 I said, kind of a hobby and then and just 0:59:10.400 --> 0:59:12.960 to pay the bills, and and kind of caught on 0:59:13.120 --> 0:59:15.040 being in Bozeman. I was doing a lot of tactical 0:59:15.160 --> 0:59:18.720 gear initially, you know, first SWAT team buddies, and then 0:59:19.120 --> 0:59:22.360 you know, had kind of involved in some online forums. 0:59:22.480 --> 0:59:26.280 You know that we're doing tactical gear stuff, and but 0:59:26.400 --> 0:59:30.320 being Ambozement, Oh my hunting buddies. And then there's a 0:59:30.360 --> 0:59:33.880 couple out or jobs in Bozeman, so there's a few 0:59:33.920 --> 0:59:36.480 people that hunt around here, and that is sort of 0:59:36.560 --> 0:59:38.919 what took off. Were Yeah, when you were out doing 0:59:39.160 --> 0:59:43.680 uh all your police duties, were ever wearing your own 0:59:43.680 --> 0:59:46.800 accessories that you made for yourself, not on patrol. But 0:59:47.000 --> 0:59:50.160 originally when I first started, actually that's that's actually how 0:59:50.240 --> 0:59:52.520 I started. As I was too cheap to buy something 0:59:52.560 --> 0:59:55.200 because I was on our swat team as well, and 0:59:55.440 --> 0:59:57.520 you know, we have a part time team, and I 0:59:57.600 --> 0:59:59.600 was too cheap to buy something and figured I could 0:59:59.640 --> 1:00:03.960 make it, so um, and that led to making stuff 1:00:04.000 --> 1:00:07.760 for teammates. And I there's one guy at work. His 1:00:08.040 --> 1:00:11.040 nickname for me was either zippers or pockets or something, 1:00:11.040 --> 1:00:14.120 because I always had if I needed a something, put 1:00:14.200 --> 1:00:15.880 something in a pocket. I'd make a pouch for it. 1:00:16.280 --> 1:00:18.960 Did you always have a sewing machine kicking? That's the 1:00:19.040 --> 1:00:24.200 same question. No, I I took seventh grade home eck 1:00:25.040 --> 1:00:28.120 and I made a Fannie pack. Yeah, I did too, 1:00:28.520 --> 1:00:32.640 and uh those were cool in the eighties or nineties, right, Yeah, 1:00:32.640 --> 1:00:35.440 I skateboarded all around Councilzoo, Michigan wearing that thing, and 1:00:35.840 --> 1:00:39.360 uh yeah, I Uh I had been able. I had 1:00:39.440 --> 1:00:42.040 just enough skill. I felt like to, you know, repair 1:00:42.920 --> 1:00:46.360 something if I had to, And uh, my wife had 1:00:46.400 --> 1:00:49.680 a sewing machine, and so I figured I could make 1:00:50.080 --> 1:00:51.720 this thing that I was too cheap to buy. And 1:00:51.840 --> 1:00:55.720 that just led me to buying more materials and more 1:00:56.400 --> 1:00:59.800 machinery and more of everything. And it just kind of 1:01:00.000 --> 1:01:01.920 I feel like, you got to be a real confident 1:01:01.960 --> 1:01:05.680 in your masculinity. When yeah, it helps that I sell 1:01:05.760 --> 1:01:09.920 camouflage things rather than lacey things. You still feel like 1:01:10.160 --> 1:01:13.720 you still feel manly, right, yeah, try to and it's 1:01:13.720 --> 1:01:16.959 like ballistic nylon, right, but it's like curting you both, 1:01:17.080 --> 1:01:20.040 you know, very manly individuals. But there's like there's a 1:01:20.160 --> 1:01:22.080 point where I think a lot of people are like, yeah, 1:01:22.120 --> 1:01:25.800 I'm not messing with the soule machine. It's just too dainty. Yeah, 1:01:26.000 --> 1:01:28.280 my wife has one. I don't want to be a seamstress. 1:01:28.920 --> 1:01:31.520 And we got you know, I got that from guys 1:01:31.560 --> 1:01:34.080 I worked with, like oh yeah, you know, giving me 1:01:34.200 --> 1:01:38.480 that snicker and you're selling again. But you know, when 1:01:38.560 --> 1:01:41.840 I really occurred to me if I would, I wish 1:01:41.880 --> 1:01:43.440 I could have a soul machine and knew how to 1:01:43.560 --> 1:01:45.400 use it. Mad be selling all kinds of jump. Yeah, 1:01:45.640 --> 1:01:48.200 well that tune change. You know, you start making more 1:01:48.280 --> 1:01:50.400 money on your side, um, than your main job than 1:01:51.080 --> 1:01:53.919 they're like, wait a minute, maybe it is worth doing. 1:01:54.560 --> 1:01:57.960 So you uh, how did it be that you went 1:01:58.000 --> 1:02:00.720 to school for wildlife management way back in the day. Well, 1:02:01.360 --> 1:02:04.040 it's I had I was going to be a game 1:02:04.080 --> 1:02:07.720 biologist and you want yeah, that's where I was aiming. 1:02:07.840 --> 1:02:10.320 And then yeah, my junior year and in college, after 1:02:10.440 --> 1:02:13.160 spending all this time and money on classes, they came 1:02:13.200 --> 1:02:15.680 in and said, you will never get a job as 1:02:15.720 --> 1:02:19.760 a biologist, so find something else that you specifically at 1:02:19.800 --> 1:02:23.919 the time, And it was a no. It was a big, 1:02:24.560 --> 1:02:27.280 full on classroom. They came in and said, you know, 1:02:27.360 --> 1:02:29.960 here's all of your chances of getting a job as 1:02:29.960 --> 1:02:33.080 a biologist, even with a PhD. It was slim to none. 1:02:34.360 --> 1:02:38.560 And I had been doing some internship work, um with 1:02:39.360 --> 1:02:42.720 like student security and and m s U. Like I 1:02:43.560 --> 1:02:46.320 dispatch for m s U p D just because it 1:02:46.480 --> 1:02:48.160 was usually pretty slow and I get a lot of 1:02:48.160 --> 1:02:50.960 study and done at night. And but I got to 1:02:51.000 --> 1:02:55.600 know those guys had some interest in enforcement. And then, um, 1:02:55.720 --> 1:02:59.560 when I realized that being a biologist was going to 1:02:59.640 --> 1:03:02.760 be a lot of work, and you know, I had 1:03:02.800 --> 1:03:04.720 this plan to be able to travel around and be 1:03:04.840 --> 1:03:09.439 a a tech and take side you know, short short 1:03:09.560 --> 1:03:12.000 term jobs all over the country and do studies and 1:03:13.120 --> 1:03:16.000 realized that probably wasn't gonna work as a an adult 1:03:16.080 --> 1:03:21.080 trying to be trying to you know, be responsible. So uh, 1:03:21.600 --> 1:03:23.200 one of the game wardens came in and gave a 1:03:23.280 --> 1:03:25.880 talk in the same class and said, you know, we're hiring, 1:03:26.040 --> 1:03:28.280 and you know, we give you a truck and a 1:03:28.680 --> 1:03:31.360 four wheeler and horses, and you know you can be 1:03:31.480 --> 1:03:35.360 outside all day and and you don't need more than 1:03:35.440 --> 1:03:38.240 a bachelor's degree in a related field. And I was like, 1:03:38.320 --> 1:03:40.920 I think that's probably what I might look at. So 1:03:42.200 --> 1:03:45.400 so I started aiming for that direction. But um, you know, 1:03:45.520 --> 1:03:48.960 did internships with the wardens here, worked in the Wildlife Lab. 1:03:49.160 --> 1:03:52.280 Did you know? That's when right when I graduated college, 1:03:52.280 --> 1:03:54.960 I end up taking a job as a security officer 1:03:55.080 --> 1:03:58.240 up on the Flying d and thinking that was as 1:03:58.320 --> 1:04:03.800 close as I could get to UH job experience, and um, 1:04:05.560 --> 1:04:08.000 when I graduated, they did a hiring freeze here and 1:04:08.240 --> 1:04:12.720 weren't hiring any wardens. So I took the written test, 1:04:12.840 --> 1:04:14.560 which happened to me. I was on search and rescue, 1:04:14.560 --> 1:04:16.640 a volunteer for search and rescue with the Sheriff's office, 1:04:16.880 --> 1:04:20.200 and they were hiring. They take the same written tests, 1:04:20.280 --> 1:04:24.680 the police standard police test, and I applied really just 1:04:24.760 --> 1:04:26.600 canda to see how I would do on the test, 1:04:26.680 --> 1:04:29.760 and they ended up hiring me. And I realized they 1:04:30.600 --> 1:04:32.720 at the time at least paid better than the state. 1:04:32.960 --> 1:04:35.520 They got to stay in Bozeman and still getting shipped 1:04:35.560 --> 1:04:40.040 to who knows where in Montana, and it's a lot 1:04:40.120 --> 1:04:42.920 easier to get time off during hunting season when you're 1:04:42.960 --> 1:04:46.200 not a game warden. So that's uh, that's what I did. 1:04:46.320 --> 1:04:49.000 How many years have you spend on that, uh with 1:04:49.160 --> 1:04:52.040 Sheriff's Office? I did my full twenty retired with twenty 1:04:52.120 --> 1:04:54.640 year retirement. I got a friend I don't I don't 1:04:54.640 --> 1:04:56.000 want to see what town he's in. But I got 1:04:56.040 --> 1:05:00.200 a friend who grew up in a town um and 1:05:00.440 --> 1:05:04.400 did all the bunch of professional things around construction, and 1:05:04.520 --> 1:05:07.000 then I guess, probably late in life for police work, 1:05:07.080 --> 1:05:09.880 but late in life went to academy and became a 1:05:10.160 --> 1:05:16.880 city policeman in his hometown, and it radically transformed his 1:05:17.080 --> 1:05:19.720 idea of the town that he lived in. Where he 1:05:19.840 --> 1:05:22.920 said he had no idea. Yeah, and I had no idea. 1:05:23.400 --> 1:05:25.400 That's true here. I didn't grow up here. I mean 1:05:25.440 --> 1:05:28.080 I went to college here. But I think for the 1:05:28.160 --> 1:05:30.720 most part, people are you know, Bosman is a nice 1:05:30.720 --> 1:05:33.840 place to live, but you know, we as law enforcement 1:05:33.880 --> 1:05:35.600 and there you certainly stay busy, and there's a lot 1:05:35.680 --> 1:05:38.400 more going on here than people realize. Yeah, he was 1:05:38.440 --> 1:05:43.440 astounded by the child abuse, the spouse abuse. It's like, 1:05:43.520 --> 1:05:45.080 how do you live your whole life somewhere and have 1:05:45.160 --> 1:05:46.680 like an impression of it, and then you get a 1:05:46.760 --> 1:05:50.080 look under the you know, and and and you look 1:05:50.120 --> 1:05:52.840 onto the covers, and he's like, it just mortified him. 1:05:52.920 --> 1:05:55.520 It changes you're outlooking. I worked six years straight at 1:05:55.600 --> 1:05:59.680 night shift and you aren't dealing with your general population 1:06:00.080 --> 1:06:04.840 three in the morning. Um, you're you just you're seeing 1:06:04.920 --> 1:06:07.320 people at their worst. You know, even if they're good people, 1:06:07.400 --> 1:06:10.880 they aren't. You know, it's not normal to be having 1:06:11.040 --> 1:06:13.520 one on one dealings with the police at three in 1:06:13.600 --> 1:06:17.040 the morning, and so your outlook on life sort of changes. 1:06:17.080 --> 1:06:19.840 And that's when I started this side gig. It was 1:06:19.960 --> 1:06:24.640 one of those things that really helped me kind of realize, 1:06:24.720 --> 1:06:26.600 you know, because you know, it's hesitant to meet people 1:06:26.800 --> 1:06:29.800 customers having gear built. You know, I'm like, I'll meet 1:06:29.840 --> 1:06:31.439 you in a parking lot somewhere and I'm not gonna 1:06:31.440 --> 1:06:35.280 tell you where I live. Yeah, I my only friends 1:06:35.320 --> 1:06:39.280 were other cops, and you know, night shift cops because 1:06:39.400 --> 1:06:41.240 you know, we had our barbecues at seven in the 1:06:41.280 --> 1:06:46.280 morning instead of normal times. And uh, um it uh. 1:06:48.320 --> 1:06:51.400 Having this side gig come up really kind of helped 1:06:51.400 --> 1:06:54.080 me realize that there were still decent people in the world, 1:06:54.160 --> 1:06:58.680 and especially hunters and anglers as a general rule, is 1:06:58.880 --> 1:07:02.520 kind of much better people than I was used to 1:07:02.600 --> 1:07:05.560 dealing with. When you when you started building FHF, did 1:07:05.600 --> 1:07:08.040 you uh did you get like a guilty conscience that 1:07:08.080 --> 1:07:10.760 you had that you weren't like hunter? You know, I 1:07:10.800 --> 1:07:12.760 guess you still aren't you're still doing your shift. But 1:07:12.800 --> 1:07:14.720 I mean, did you feel bad like you were betraying 1:07:14.800 --> 1:07:18.520 your occupation or something? Um, in what way? What do 1:07:18.600 --> 1:07:21.960 you mean, like like that you had another love, right? Um? 1:07:22.160 --> 1:07:24.600 Not really. I mean I was able to kind of balance, 1:07:24.680 --> 1:07:27.160 you know. I mean I ended up. I was in 1:07:27.280 --> 1:07:29.600 charge of our detective division, and you know, that was 1:07:29.720 --> 1:07:32.840 my main job. But definitely all of my off time 1:07:33.000 --> 1:07:36.840 was spent as this. As FHF kind of grew, I 1:07:36.920 --> 1:07:38.920 never planned it to grow as quickly as it did. 1:07:39.160 --> 1:07:41.720 In fact, I tried to slow it down several times 1:07:41.840 --> 1:07:44.400 because I was so busy and I was, you know, 1:07:44.480 --> 1:07:48.800 doing everything myself. Um, But it just kind of took 1:07:48.840 --> 1:07:51.400 on a life of its own. And so you know, 1:07:51.960 --> 1:07:53.200 by the end, I was, you're trying to hang on 1:07:53.360 --> 1:07:57.960 to make my twenty years and and uh, you know, 1:07:58.080 --> 1:08:00.080 I'd say there are times where I probably gave a 1:08:00.120 --> 1:08:04.200 little more attention to that to my side gig than 1:08:04.240 --> 1:08:06.320 I probably should have. But I tried really hard to 1:08:06.800 --> 1:08:11.880 not not let it affect my day job. Um. On 1:08:12.040 --> 1:08:17.760 the like the gradual path to binal harnesses, we like 1:08:17.840 --> 1:08:19.439 in the old age, we put like a pair of 1:08:19.479 --> 1:08:22.519 bonn oculars around our neck, right on a rigid strap. 1:08:23.640 --> 1:08:25.400 I remember getting I wish I still had to sing, 1:08:25.479 --> 1:08:30.400 and maybe I do. But we started inexpertly sewing stuff 1:08:30.600 --> 1:08:35.439 and I remember taking um taking a cutting a strip 1:08:35.479 --> 1:08:38.280 off of a pair of neoprene waiters, old neoprene waiters, 1:08:38.400 --> 1:08:41.679 and made my next strap of a neoprene waiter stitch piece, 1:08:42.800 --> 1:08:48.479 and then stitched strapping to that. Did hooked the key 1:08:48.640 --> 1:08:52.759 rings that were in the tethers, like in the fastening 1:08:52.800 --> 1:08:56.120 points on my binoculars, and then we'd take a piece 1:08:56.200 --> 1:09:00.880 of bungee cord and fastened one end of the bungee 1:09:00.960 --> 1:09:06.200 cord to the binocular to that key ring running around 1:09:06.280 --> 1:09:09.080 behind your back, and to the other key ring. You'd 1:09:09.120 --> 1:09:11.400 have a piece of para cord in which you tie 1:09:11.520 --> 1:09:15.880 up prusick right and tie the prussick around the bungee. 1:09:17.160 --> 1:09:20.040 You follow me, so as you shed layers, you could 1:09:20.080 --> 1:09:22.720 like tighten the prusi up on the bungee. It was 1:09:22.760 --> 1:09:25.000 to have the bungee so when you put your binoculars up, 1:09:25.000 --> 1:09:29.080 you'd have the resistance of the bungee for stability, and 1:09:29.120 --> 1:09:31.960 then when you're belly crawling, that bungee suck him up 1:09:32.000 --> 1:09:35.719 to your chest. I like it, Yeah, we should hire 1:09:35.760 --> 1:09:40.200 you as a designer. I don't remember exactly, but I 1:09:40.280 --> 1:09:41.960 don't think I invented this. I think this is just 1:09:42.040 --> 1:09:44.519 like looking at stuff and doing if I remember that 1:09:44.600 --> 1:09:46.400 dude Eric Current being like, oh no, man, there's this 1:09:46.520 --> 1:09:49.560 guy in Belgrade. It like makes these whole things. You 1:09:49.600 --> 1:09:50.840 gotta te him what you got, you know, and he 1:09:50.920 --> 1:09:52.920 makes it all And it was funny. Is at the time, 1:09:53.040 --> 1:09:55.360 like no one really knew about that stuff. And and um, 1:09:56.000 --> 1:09:59.320 we get the biny harnesses. And remember camera guys, so 1:09:59.479 --> 1:10:02.960 we we had a lot of dealings with production people. 1:10:03.600 --> 1:10:06.160 Um no interest hunting at all. I remember one of 1:10:06.240 --> 1:10:08.280 our camera one of our longtime camera guys. I don't 1:10:08.280 --> 1:10:14.519 know how many episodes of mo film like being like 1:10:15.240 --> 1:10:19.639 they carry all their batteries and media everything in there. 1:10:19.680 --> 1:10:22.639 You know, he'd run around being like, I can't believe 1:10:22.720 --> 1:10:25.920 my whole life, I wasted this real estate. And he'd 1:10:25.960 --> 1:10:28.720 even be going like he'd be shooting Bourdain show. You know, 1:10:28.760 --> 1:10:31.360 they'd be whatever, like Singapore shooting Bourdain show. And those 1:10:31.439 --> 1:10:33.640 dudes that all have bought your bino harnesses on with 1:10:33.760 --> 1:10:36.280 their like camera equipment and stuff in there. You know 1:10:36.760 --> 1:10:38.920 they loved it. Man and they're all wearing the chest rick. 1:10:38.960 --> 1:10:41.000 Now yeah, now they got Yeah, they don't have to 1:10:41.000 --> 1:10:42.960 stick in the buyo pocket now because now there's like 1:10:43.040 --> 1:10:45.280 an actual chess rig. This more excess rise. But that 1:10:45.360 --> 1:10:48.080 was this big things, like this whole life. He'd wasted 1:10:48.120 --> 1:10:51.400 this this space where who knows you could keep all 1:10:51.439 --> 1:10:54.320 your stuff here? Paul, when you came up with like 1:10:54.479 --> 1:10:58.720 that by no harness design, what were you seeing that 1:10:58.880 --> 1:11:02.040 you didn't like, you know, in the other options that 1:11:02.120 --> 1:11:04.599 were out there. Um, well, it's funny because there weren't. 1:11:06.040 --> 1:11:10.880 I have to admit I hadn't actually researched making it 1:11:10.960 --> 1:11:13.360 based on what you didn't like about other ship. The 1:11:13.439 --> 1:11:16.240 first one was actually made for a custom order for 1:11:16.400 --> 1:11:20.200 somebody else, um and you know who had had a 1:11:20.280 --> 1:11:23.479 bunch of elks scared away by Um he had one 1:11:23.520 --> 1:11:28.559 of those early magnetic ones that stayed open. The wind 1:11:28.680 --> 1:11:31.679 caught it, popped it shut and made a huge noise. 1:11:32.160 --> 1:11:34.160 Elk got scared away, and he's like, I want something 1:11:34.200 --> 1:11:37.400 without a magnet. So that was the first first one 1:11:37.439 --> 1:11:40.760 I started making. I made a few for you know, 1:11:40.760 --> 1:11:44.880 a few other friends and customers. Went to Uh. Actually, 1:11:44.920 --> 1:11:49.920 one of Randy Newburgh's really early like get togethers, and 1:11:50.320 --> 1:11:52.080 came away from there with a bunch of orders and 1:11:52.880 --> 1:11:55.040 and uh, you know, and I had been wearing just 1:11:55.160 --> 1:12:02.200 the the old elastic crooked horn um by guy, you know, 1:12:02.200 --> 1:12:03.800 and I had had my own issues with that. You know, 1:12:03.840 --> 1:12:07.040 you're hiking around and bouncing, hitting in the waste or 1:12:07.200 --> 1:12:11.320 you know, lower if you weren't lucky, and sometimes well 1:12:11.439 --> 1:12:13.320 that's the thing. I tried to jump over a stream 1:12:13.360 --> 1:12:16.559 one time, and you know, I jumped and ended up 1:12:16.680 --> 1:12:18.760 hitting the other bank buy knows went one way and 1:12:18.880 --> 1:12:20.559 came back and hit me right in the nose, end 1:12:20.760 --> 1:12:24.320 up standing in the creek, bleeding, and like, there's gotta 1:12:24.320 --> 1:12:27.280 be a better way to do this, And uh yeah, 1:12:27.320 --> 1:12:28.760 that's kind of how it started and just kind of 1:12:28.800 --> 1:12:31.200 evolved from there. You know, it hasn't changed a whole 1:12:31.320 --> 1:12:34.360 lot um. It just kind of added a few features 1:12:34.439 --> 1:12:36.920 here and there over the years. And you know, now, 1:12:37.800 --> 1:12:41.200 to be honest, I got so busy as the company 1:12:41.320 --> 1:12:44.720 grew where I was running kind of day to day 1:12:44.720 --> 1:12:47.599 business stuff all the time and really had very little 1:12:47.720 --> 1:12:51.000 opportunity to update products or even design new ones. And 1:12:51.560 --> 1:12:54.280 now we're finally getting to a point where I feel 1:12:54.280 --> 1:12:57.439 like we're moving forward on all sorts of new stuff. 1:12:58.240 --> 1:13:00.519 When you started your when you start your business, will 1:13:00.520 --> 1:13:02.519 being a full time police officer, what was the how 1:13:02.560 --> 1:13:04.080 many years did you do it before you did it? 1:13:04.120 --> 1:13:06.720 A year where you're like I had a profit, Like 1:13:06.920 --> 1:13:10.200 realize that you had an actual business. Um, it wasn't 1:13:10.280 --> 1:13:13.560 until I actually started. We we ended up working with 1:13:13.640 --> 1:13:16.320 a company to help so gear for me, so like 1:13:16.560 --> 1:13:20.280 certain things that I would have a list of. Um, 1:13:20.360 --> 1:13:22.080 I don't know how many years it was into it, 1:13:22.200 --> 1:13:25.920 probably probably two or three where you know, I was 1:13:26.000 --> 1:13:29.800 just sewing everything myself. And I am one of those 1:13:29.840 --> 1:13:32.000 people who are like, that's not worth that, you know, 1:13:32.240 --> 1:13:34.280 give me five bucks for that. I'll you know, it's 1:13:34.320 --> 1:13:36.880 probably not worth that much. And so I look at 1:13:36.920 --> 1:13:38.639 some of my early stuff, I can't believe people paid 1:13:38.720 --> 1:13:43.560 for it, but um they like when I found a 1:13:43.640 --> 1:13:46.720 company that helped me, like my most requested products I 1:13:46.880 --> 1:13:51.160 just had made for me, and um, that's when I 1:13:51.200 --> 1:13:53.719 started seeing a profit because it was just the time 1:13:53.840 --> 1:13:57.160 of actually sewing. I could just sell those things, um, 1:13:57.320 --> 1:14:00.360 one after the other instead of spending you one by 1:14:00.360 --> 1:14:03.000 an artist would take me four and a half hours 1:14:03.080 --> 1:14:05.680 to make by myself. You know, that's when I was 1:14:05.720 --> 1:14:07.360 selling them all the time and felt good at it. 1:14:07.880 --> 1:14:09.759 And so you know, at the time I was probably 1:14:09.800 --> 1:14:13.280 selling them for sixty bucks. It's hard to make a 1:14:13.360 --> 1:14:16.439 profit at that rate. Well, when you were early on, 1:14:16.560 --> 1:14:18.600 are you tempted to not stick to having everything be 1:14:18.680 --> 1:14:21.439 American made? UM, just as you could have gone and 1:14:21.560 --> 1:14:23.280 had like hundreds of them maid and just have it 1:14:23.360 --> 1:14:26.040 all be like No, I've pretty much always stuck to 1:14:26.120 --> 1:14:28.240 that that I try and source everything I can, both 1:14:28.360 --> 1:14:32.840 materials and obviously labor um in the US and UM. 1:14:33.320 --> 1:14:36.479 It's kind of been one of the things throughout the 1:14:36.560 --> 1:14:38.960 whole history that have stuck to and kind of built 1:14:39.160 --> 1:14:41.240 a customer base around and I think a lot of 1:14:41.280 --> 1:14:45.080 people appreciate that. UM. And early on, you know, I 1:14:45.240 --> 1:14:48.719 was I didn't want to invest too much money into 1:14:48.920 --> 1:14:50.880 something and you know, going overseas you have to do 1:14:51.040 --> 1:14:53.960 huge orders and wait a long time. And it's been 1:14:54.080 --> 1:14:57.360 nice with US production is that you know, if I 1:14:57.439 --> 1:15:00.479 have a change, I can make that change and have 1:15:00.640 --> 1:15:04.479 a turnaround pretty quick versus a two year planning process 1:15:04.600 --> 1:15:08.880 to try and you know, get something made overseas. Uh, 1:15:09.680 --> 1:15:11.519 you don't know they want I want to ask you 1:15:11.680 --> 1:15:14.439 do you have how many how long has been since 1:15:14.479 --> 1:15:18.320 you retired? Uh, since two thousand eighteen. Do you have 1:15:18.360 --> 1:15:20.680 a lot of days where you uh I wish you 1:15:20.720 --> 1:15:23.960 hadn't done that and stayed in it. No. Um, A 1:15:24.040 --> 1:15:25.800 lot of the guys still there. I still see and 1:15:25.920 --> 1:15:30.439 I recommend retirement to them every day, especially so you're 1:15:30.439 --> 1:15:33.720 like the opposite of a recruiting force. Yeah. Yeah, you know, 1:15:33.800 --> 1:15:37.599 I missed the people. I missed the work. Um. Sometimes, UM, 1:15:37.960 --> 1:15:40.439 I miss being in the know what's going on in 1:15:40.560 --> 1:15:44.000 the valley and in the news, and but I don't 1:15:44.040 --> 1:15:47.519 miss the stress and the politics and uh, the bs 1:15:47.600 --> 1:15:49.519 that you have to deal with every day. I mean 1:15:50.040 --> 1:15:53.679 I don't. I haven't been shot at yet since I retired, 1:15:53.760 --> 1:15:56.040 so that's kind of nice. Yeah. Do you feel like 1:15:56.160 --> 1:15:58.080 whatever kind of Um, I don't mean to like I'm 1:15:58.080 --> 1:16:00.439 not trying to lay a diagnosis on here anything like that, 1:16:00.600 --> 1:16:06.080 but whatever sort of I don't know, Like PTSD is 1:16:06.120 --> 1:16:09.400 ship happens to you from being like the first on 1:16:09.560 --> 1:16:12.760 a car crash, Like yeah, you're just like you right right, 1:16:12.920 --> 1:16:15.920 You're running into like like dead people become a part 1:16:15.960 --> 1:16:18.840 of life in some way, like this inescapable part of life. 1:16:18.880 --> 1:16:20.880 Like most if you went out and pulled Americans like, 1:16:20.920 --> 1:16:23.280 have you ever seen have your like been in proximity 1:16:23.360 --> 1:16:25.719 to a dead person? I feel like at this point 1:16:25.880 --> 1:16:29.160 in human in American history, a majority of people would 1:16:29.160 --> 1:16:31.920 have a no answer outside of a funeral home, you know, 1:16:32.000 --> 1:16:35.120 something like like you know that you like encounter in 1:16:35.200 --> 1:16:38.360 close proximity a dead individual, not not in a funeral home. 1:16:38.640 --> 1:16:41.439 Like I think that a vast majority of Americans would 1:16:41.439 --> 1:16:43.519 say no, I have not right, Like it's just out 1:16:43.560 --> 1:16:46.760 of whatever it is societally, we've gotten cleaned up. Like 1:16:46.800 --> 1:16:48.200 you're talking to my dad and he's a little boy. 1:16:48.200 --> 1:16:49.680 It seemed like you couldn't turn around without being a 1:16:49.720 --> 1:16:52.200 dead guy laying there. But like nowadays it doesn't happen. 1:16:52.240 --> 1:16:54.200 But then you're forced in that line of work. It's 1:16:54.240 --> 1:16:58.599 just like a thing. It has to have a new impact. Yeah, 1:16:58.680 --> 1:17:01.840 I think it does. I actually like read something once 1:17:02.240 --> 1:17:05.360 from a law professor who talked about you know you 1:17:05.439 --> 1:17:08.360 kind of you get used to it, or you never 1:17:08.439 --> 1:17:09.760 get used to it, but you get to see it 1:17:09.840 --> 1:17:12.920 so often. They talk about grains of sand where you 1:17:13.800 --> 1:17:17.000 it's something that you don't realize it's irritating you, but 1:17:17.080 --> 1:17:19.519 it is irritating you every call you go to. It's 1:17:19.520 --> 1:17:23.679 all those things. And I think many in law enforcement, 1:17:23.720 --> 1:17:26.800 any emergency service, they kind of the this analogy that 1:17:26.920 --> 1:17:28.720 was made by this law professor was, you know, we 1:17:28.840 --> 1:17:31.439 all learned to like build a pearl around those grains 1:17:31.479 --> 1:17:34.360 of sand and polish him up. And you know a 1:17:34.439 --> 1:17:37.240 lot of that polish has dark humor in it, and 1:17:37.680 --> 1:17:39.320 you know you just kind of you try and find 1:17:39.400 --> 1:17:42.280 what's funny and what you can laugh at later and 1:17:43.840 --> 1:17:46.759 vent your stress that way do you find it getting 1:17:46.760 --> 1:17:50.040 out of it? You start uh, drifting back to whatever 1:17:50.080 --> 1:17:53.160 you were pre I don't know if I'll ever get there. 1:17:53.880 --> 1:17:58.560 I still have that yeah, yeah, I definitely. You know, 1:17:58.640 --> 1:18:01.160 I still can't go in eat at a restaurant without 1:18:01.320 --> 1:18:04.800 sitting with my back to the wall somewhere. Seriously. Oh yeah, 1:18:04.880 --> 1:18:07.479 I don't what is your concern? I don't know the 1:18:07.560 --> 1:18:09.760 guy you coughed and stuffed, it's gonna come up. Yeah, 1:18:09.800 --> 1:18:11.960 And you just kind of you learned to always be ready, 1:18:12.360 --> 1:18:16.040 and you know, driving around a patrol car, you're you're 1:18:16.040 --> 1:18:18.719 always thinking what could happen next, What if this happens? 1:18:18.760 --> 1:18:21.280 You know, kind of the what if scenarios, all the time, 1:18:21.400 --> 1:18:26.160 and um, you know, luckily of the time it's pretty boring, 1:18:26.360 --> 1:18:28.280 but that one percent of the time when it's not, 1:18:28.800 --> 1:18:31.040 if you're not ready for it, it's it could be 1:18:31.920 --> 1:18:34.560 real trouble. And that's you go out to eat and 1:18:34.600 --> 1:18:36.280 you're like, you know, what if somebody comes in to 1:18:36.439 --> 1:18:40.360 rob the place? What if somebody I know, you know, 1:18:40.560 --> 1:18:43.479 or arrested or whatever comes in and recognizes me or 1:18:43.680 --> 1:18:44.920 you know, I don't know. I just don't want to 1:18:44.960 --> 1:18:47.280 be hitting the back of the head. I'd rather see 1:18:47.320 --> 1:18:51.479 what's coming right now. Yeah, he said, yeah, he said, 1:18:51.479 --> 1:18:54.599 in the back corner, watching the What are the type 1:18:54.640 --> 1:18:58.720 of what let me rephrases. Uh, it's from a night 1:18:58.800 --> 1:19:01.000 shift going back into obviously working with more of a 1:19:01.240 --> 1:19:03.960 day shift operation and any of the residual health pieces 1:19:04.000 --> 1:19:06.080 of that. And how did that unwind, you know, from 1:19:06.479 --> 1:19:10.560 trying to change your basic I don't know. So I 1:19:10.680 --> 1:19:12.559 worked nights. I was luckily I was a lot younger 1:19:12.640 --> 1:19:15.200 than I can tell. As I got older, things got harder. 1:19:15.600 --> 1:19:18.320 Um to stay awake all night. Um, I remember I 1:19:18.400 --> 1:19:20.559 went through a full year. I learned to tie flies 1:19:20.800 --> 1:19:23.320 on night shift. And you know, because you wouldn't your 1:19:23.400 --> 1:19:26.400 days off you'd stay awake, you couldn't sleep. Really. Um, 1:19:26.640 --> 1:19:30.559 I didn't have kids yet early on, and my wife 1:19:30.560 --> 1:19:32.960 at the time worked night shift, and so it just 1:19:33.120 --> 1:19:36.280 were like the vampires of the neighborhood. And so you 1:19:36.400 --> 1:19:38.080 stay on the you stay on the regis, stay on 1:19:38.160 --> 1:19:40.280 my schedule, and you know, made a lot easier on 1:19:40.360 --> 1:19:42.679 the work schedule to go back to the night shift 1:19:42.760 --> 1:19:44.920 and I tie flies, and I remember that's when I 1:19:45.000 --> 1:19:47.000 finally decided, you know, I probably had to get off 1:19:47.000 --> 1:19:50.719 a night shift when I had so many flies done 1:19:50.960 --> 1:19:54.120 because I never fished. Yeah, it was dark out, so 1:19:54.479 --> 1:19:56.800 I had so many flies tied up. I'm like, man, 1:19:56.880 --> 1:19:58.639 I'd never gonna get to use it if I don't 1:19:58.640 --> 1:20:01.960 get off this shift. Um. And then I went through 1:20:01.960 --> 1:20:04.000 a long period where like I had a hard time 1:20:04.479 --> 1:20:07.760 having kids, you know, not you know, I was used 1:20:07.800 --> 1:20:11.519 to hibernating for twelve hours during the daytime and you know, 1:20:11.640 --> 1:20:13.920 blocking out the lights and turning the A C on 1:20:14.120 --> 1:20:17.280 and you know, just I did great on nights. But 1:20:17.400 --> 1:20:21.360 then when I had kids, it was pretty tough to transition, 1:20:21.800 --> 1:20:25.960 you know, and realize my life now revolved around their 1:20:25.960 --> 1:20:29.400 schedule and not not my own. Uh, you know that 1:20:29.560 --> 1:20:32.479 jumpiness you're talking about. Uh do you feel that you 1:20:32.760 --> 1:20:37.559 do you make your kids jumping? Um? Yeah, I don't. 1:20:37.560 --> 1:20:39.320 It's hard to say whether I cost to hear that, 1:20:40.240 --> 1:20:41.920 but you sense that at them that they pick up 1:20:41.960 --> 1:20:45.040 because they they're they're like they pick up a lot man. Yeah, 1:20:45.080 --> 1:20:48.560 I don't know. They had a teenage daughter who and 1:20:48.920 --> 1:20:51.000 it's pretty oblivious to anything but her phone, So I 1:20:51.080 --> 1:20:53.880 think she's not like a gunfighter. No facing the door. 1:20:56.200 --> 1:20:57.840 Do do you ever look back? I wish you hadn't 1:20:57.840 --> 1:21:02.040 gone into that work? Um? Yeah, Uh, like what because 1:21:02.080 --> 1:21:05.840 primarily what like what is the main thing? I don't know. 1:21:06.120 --> 1:21:09.200 You know, it's it's hard. It's like I'm torn because 1:21:09.280 --> 1:21:12.040 I enjoyed the work. I actually when I got hired, 1:21:12.080 --> 1:21:14.679 I never planned to go into that that line of work, 1:21:14.760 --> 1:21:17.519 and and honestly, when I got hired, it was like, 1:21:17.560 --> 1:21:20.800 I'll try this for a few years and see what happens. Um, 1:21:21.520 --> 1:21:23.880 but I had fun. I think the people I worked 1:21:23.920 --> 1:21:26.479 with are genuinely, you know, some of the best people 1:21:26.520 --> 1:21:30.040 I've ever met. They always would have my back. They um, 1:21:30.640 --> 1:21:33.320 you know, we come came to rely on each other. 1:21:33.400 --> 1:21:35.320 So you know, it's similar to I'm sure what I'm 1:21:35.320 --> 1:21:37.800 sure I wasn't in the military, but similar to and 1:21:37.920 --> 1:21:40.679 we hired a lot of veterans and and that same 1:21:40.760 --> 1:21:45.080 mindset came with them, and it was different in that, 1:21:45.200 --> 1:21:48.280 you know, I worked with i'd say, the same core 1:21:48.360 --> 1:21:51.000 group of people for twenty years doing the same thing, 1:21:51.400 --> 1:21:54.400 and you just get to know those people, and so 1:21:54.800 --> 1:21:56.720 I wouldn't give that up for anything. But at the 1:21:56.760 --> 1:22:00.559 same time, you know, I'm sure, like you said, I'm 1:22:01.120 --> 1:22:05.120 there's some scars there. I'm sure that will always be there. 1:22:05.200 --> 1:22:07.560 But you know, I guess that's who makes me me 1:22:07.800 --> 1:22:12.680 so hurt, what makes me me and I think, you know, 1:22:12.960 --> 1:22:14.560 it'd be nice to not have them, But at the 1:22:14.560 --> 1:22:17.840 same time, they're there. And I think I've learned from 1:22:17.880 --> 1:22:20.080 a lot of things, and I was very naive when 1:22:20.080 --> 1:22:23.040 I got hired, and I feel like, hopefully I'm not 1:22:23.600 --> 1:22:27.680 not so anymore. I'm guessing that's probably accurate. Well, I 1:22:27.760 --> 1:22:30.320 appreciate the service to the community, you know, that's what 1:22:30.400 --> 1:22:32.400 I really I don't know if you feel that yourself. 1:22:32.520 --> 1:22:35.479 I think that's like a something that I'm feel like 1:22:35.520 --> 1:22:38.200 I'm missing sometimes. You know, it's kind of an adult 1:22:38.280 --> 1:22:40.280 in their prime, and I'm always thinking like man, how 1:22:40.360 --> 1:22:43.400 could I do more just around, you know, to help out? 1:22:43.520 --> 1:22:48.200 But like that that weighs on your honest and legitimate way, man, Well, 1:22:48.280 --> 1:22:50.120 and it does for me too. I want to get 1:22:50.200 --> 1:22:52.400 more involved with some of the conservation stuff now that 1:22:52.439 --> 1:22:55.439 I'm out. You know, I'm just used to being um. 1:22:56.000 --> 1:22:58.479 You know, I try and help with cleanups and different 1:22:58.520 --> 1:23:01.040 things around the community. But yeah, there are times where 1:23:01.120 --> 1:23:02.960 I'm like, man, I wish I could get more involved. 1:23:04.479 --> 1:23:07.719 When I was in law enforcemately, you know, it was different. 1:23:07.880 --> 1:23:09.560 But it's funny you bring it up and kind of 1:23:09.600 --> 1:23:12.680 tie what Steve said earlier about getting in later. Like 1:23:12.760 --> 1:23:15.360 when I first got hired, I was twenty one years old, 1:23:15.439 --> 1:23:19.240 and you know, I wasn't thinking about just starting drink. Yeah, um, 1:23:19.479 --> 1:23:21.760 yeah right, And m I p s to people that 1:23:22.280 --> 1:23:25.080 I'm like, would have partied with a few weeks earlier. 1:23:29.160 --> 1:23:34.960 Last night, I've been with you. Um. But you know 1:23:35.160 --> 1:23:38.680 when when you're young, and you know, maybe not everybody's 1:23:38.720 --> 1:23:40.680 like this, but I didn't realize really what I was 1:23:40.760 --> 1:23:43.880 getting getting into, or maybe what the what effect I 1:23:43.920 --> 1:23:45.680 could have, you know, And of course then you get 1:23:45.720 --> 1:23:48.599 into that and I think Sam talked about it at 1:23:48.800 --> 1:23:52.320 some point where you get into feeling like I can 1:23:52.640 --> 1:23:56.000 clean up this community, I can fix everything, and you 1:23:56.120 --> 1:23:58.600 realize that that's not possible either. You go through a 1:23:58.640 --> 1:24:02.280 phase where you're you know, nobody can clean up this 1:24:02.400 --> 1:24:06.040 community and screw it all um. And then as you 1:24:06.120 --> 1:24:09.519 get older, and I saw it with older hires, you know, 1:24:09.640 --> 1:24:11.880 you mentioned somebody else getting into it later in life. 1:24:11.960 --> 1:24:15.120 You I think those were some of the best hires 1:24:15.200 --> 1:24:17.840 we had because you had guys that already knew what 1:24:18.040 --> 1:24:19.560 was going on in the community, what they'd like to 1:24:19.600 --> 1:24:22.560 see changed. They had community connections. You know, I was 1:24:22.600 --> 1:24:25.599 a college kid basically, you know when I got hired, 1:24:26.360 --> 1:24:30.120 my connections were, you know, what bar are we going 1:24:30.160 --> 1:24:32.880 to go to? Um? You know, it's just it's a 1:24:32.960 --> 1:24:36.599 different outlook on life and being involved, and so yeah, 1:24:36.600 --> 1:24:38.360 it was good when we hired, and you know, the 1:24:38.439 --> 1:24:40.799 Sheriff's Office here did a really good job of hiring 1:24:40.880 --> 1:24:44.240 and picking those people that wanted to be involved. So 1:24:45.479 --> 1:24:48.360 it was you know, by the end, you know, certainly 1:24:48.400 --> 1:24:51.519 I was at a place where that was one of 1:24:51.560 --> 1:24:52.920 the best parts of it, where you got to go 1:24:54.080 --> 1:24:57.040 talk to kids and you know, help out at different places. 1:24:57.640 --> 1:24:59.760 You were out of the game when it happened to 1:24:59.800 --> 1:25:01.960 you a goal. But when you saw stuff like when 1:25:02.000 --> 1:25:04.800 you read like defund the police and stuff that that 1:25:05.080 --> 1:25:07.800 hurts that that's staying a little bit. Yeah, definitely. I 1:25:07.920 --> 1:25:11.200 feel bad for the guys you know, that are still 1:25:11.240 --> 1:25:14.000 working that I have to put up with. You know 1:25:14.240 --> 1:25:17.200 that what I hope is kind of the vocal minority 1:25:17.280 --> 1:25:20.000 of people that you know have that hatred. But um, 1:25:20.640 --> 1:25:22.200 you know, not to say that there isn't room for 1:25:22.600 --> 1:25:26.920 improvements in certain places, but um, you know, I have 1:25:27.040 --> 1:25:29.680 my whole I go on for hours about that, but 1:25:29.840 --> 1:25:33.720 I won't. But they you know, there are certain things 1:25:33.760 --> 1:25:37.720 that could be done to help I think improve the 1:25:37.960 --> 1:25:41.360 outlook of the public and the police working together, and 1:25:42.680 --> 1:25:46.599 I think defund the police is certainly the wrong message 1:25:46.680 --> 1:25:48.800 to send out there. I just read an article in 1:25:48.840 --> 1:25:52.559 the in the Times the other day about the radical 1:25:52.680 --> 1:25:57.680 reversal of that movement and it looked I think it 1:25:57.720 --> 1:25:59.719 was the most particularly looking at like Dallas or Houston, 1:25:59.760 --> 1:26:02.639 I remember, and he was like that they had stripped 1:26:02.720 --> 1:26:05.479 overtime funding for a while and then all they're back 1:26:05.520 --> 1:26:08.599 in with more overtime. People are like, oh, I don't 1:26:08.600 --> 1:26:12.320 really mean that, you know, And it's like a widespread 1:26:12.520 --> 1:26:15.760 sort of movement away from thinking that that's actually not 1:26:15.960 --> 1:26:20.280 the plan, like that's not the path towards more peaceful neighborhoods. Yeah. Yeah, 1:26:20.320 --> 1:26:23.519 it's a it's a tough, tough topic to cover, and 1:26:23.640 --> 1:26:25.759 you know, obviously every other area the country is different. 1:26:25.800 --> 1:26:28.880 I was lucky I worked in Bozeman, Montana. There's worse 1:26:28.960 --> 1:26:31.640 places to work, um, you know, so I have a 1:26:31.720 --> 1:26:35.160 limited perspective from that end, but you know, it's still 1:26:35.560 --> 1:26:37.760 you know, I've worked with a lot of guys who 1:26:37.840 --> 1:26:40.880 moved here from Bozeman or sorry, from big cities, you know, 1:26:41.280 --> 1:26:44.599 d C, Dallas, different places, and they moved to Bozeman 1:26:44.640 --> 1:26:47.160 to get away from the crime and the lifestyle, and 1:26:47.720 --> 1:26:50.720 they wanted the Bozeman lifestyle. And they realized, well, you 1:26:50.760 --> 1:26:52.840 guys don't have very many people, and so you're still 1:26:52.920 --> 1:26:55.360 dealing with almost the same number of calls every night, 1:26:56.240 --> 1:26:59.280 same number of you know, deaths. You know, we don't 1:26:59.280 --> 1:27:02.320 have the homicide rate of Chicago or something, but um, 1:27:02.840 --> 1:27:04.600 you know, we were small enough. We don't have the 1:27:04.640 --> 1:27:07.599 gang problems and different things, and but we're still dealing 1:27:07.640 --> 1:27:09.320 with a lot of the same stressors. And it's just 1:27:09.479 --> 1:27:13.400 fewer people to deal with calls. And so your your 1:27:13.479 --> 1:27:18.360 ratios are still yeah, yeah, the travesties per person. Yeah yeah, 1:27:18.800 --> 1:27:24.840 it's still there. Um, what tell us about what's coming 1:27:24.880 --> 1:27:27.920 up at FHF at your at your at your now business. Um, 1:27:28.160 --> 1:27:32.000 you're now not You're now not as traumatic business. Um. 1:27:32.400 --> 1:27:35.479 Although I joke when people ask if we're staying busy, 1:27:35.520 --> 1:27:37.599 I say, I don't get to take as many coffee 1:27:37.640 --> 1:27:42.280 breaks anymore. So I think I'm busier now, Um, but 1:27:42.439 --> 1:27:47.080 I don't know it. Just don't call um a whole 1:27:47.080 --> 1:27:50.040 another story about where where your food comes from and 1:27:50.160 --> 1:27:53.559 not eating at restaurants and uniform and only uh yeah, 1:27:55.160 --> 1:28:01.200 yeahs you've usually arrested most of the cooks. Um. But um, 1:28:03.280 --> 1:28:07.360 so starting in November, we're gonna launch a bunch of 1:28:08.080 --> 1:28:11.839 accessories to our chest rig kind of that that launches, 1:28:11.920 --> 1:28:15.320 you know, limited items that were built to accessorizes the 1:28:15.400 --> 1:28:18.240 chest rig and make a little more versatile, more modular. 1:28:19.400 --> 1:28:22.360 Um should start seeing that stuff trickling out. Yeah, explain 1:28:22.439 --> 1:28:24.040 the chest rig. It's like it's like it's like a 1:28:24.840 --> 1:28:27.479 imagine a binal harness, but it's just like a rig 1:28:27.560 --> 1:28:31.000 like a carrier, and you can do like fishing parts, 1:28:31.200 --> 1:28:33.679 other kinds of inserts, you know, like a zip top 1:28:33.920 --> 1:28:36.400 pouch that you you wear on your chest. It's not 1:28:36.520 --> 1:28:39.360 waste in real estate. Yeah, and not wasting real estate. 1:28:39.360 --> 1:28:42.040 And that's why I'd make made a fishing chest rig 1:28:42.200 --> 1:28:45.080 for years, always with the plan I built it with 1:28:45.520 --> 1:28:48.160 velcro inserts so that you could customize it to how 1:28:48.240 --> 1:28:50.280 you wanted. And I always had plans to do a 1:28:50.320 --> 1:28:53.280 bunch of inserts for it and different accessories. Never had 1:28:53.320 --> 1:28:57.280 the time and until recently and finally we kind of 1:28:57.320 --> 1:29:00.639 reworked a little bit and started so calling it bare 1:29:00.840 --> 1:29:03.479 and then have a fishing kit that you can set 1:29:03.520 --> 1:29:05.640 it up for fly fishing or you can set up 1:29:05.680 --> 1:29:10.559 for um turkey hunting. UM. We're one of the things 1:29:10.600 --> 1:29:14.360 we'll be coming out with is UM some water fell stuff. UM. 1:29:14.600 --> 1:29:18.599 Just some options to make it a little more versatile Carrey, 1:29:18.640 --> 1:29:20.240 So if you don't want to wear it on your chest, 1:29:20.320 --> 1:29:23.240 you don't have to. Um you think about making a 1:29:23.280 --> 1:29:25.800 beaver trapping insert, I I would if I had some 1:29:26.120 --> 1:29:29.200 had some insight, I'll get Rick on that. I'll talk. 1:29:29.280 --> 1:29:30.960 It needs to have a little liner so that the 1:29:31.040 --> 1:29:35.960 cast or lure doesn't do you have at least ten customers. Yeah, 1:29:36.520 --> 1:29:42.760 I got mine rigged up for coon and lion hunting. Yeah. 1:29:42.840 --> 1:29:47.719 We've been talking to Clay quite frequently about potential upgrades 1:29:47.800 --> 1:29:50.080 we could do for for him hunting down there. He's 1:29:50.120 --> 1:29:53.320 really loving for Oh yeah, ius, get all the whatever, 1:29:53.439 --> 1:29:56.160 GPS ship and all that. Yeah, you got a leash 1:29:56.240 --> 1:29:57.880 in there, and you still got to have a skin 1:29:58.000 --> 1:30:01.400 a knife. And he's not wearing the big buyos you 1:30:01.439 --> 1:30:03.320 know all the time down in that country, So he's 1:30:03.360 --> 1:30:05.559 got the real estate. I just tucked my little eight by, 1:30:06.680 --> 1:30:09.840 which are like the best gear kind of thing I've 1:30:09.880 --> 1:30:11.920 done in the last year. You gotta get a pair. 1:30:12.320 --> 1:30:22.360 You just don't understand Turkey season with those things. I'm 1:30:22.360 --> 1:30:26.080 a ten. I can see it. I can see it. 1:30:27.080 --> 1:30:28.880 Check try him out. But yeah, we'll have a better 1:30:28.920 --> 1:30:32.720 way to carry some smaller buyos. Um. But hopefully we'll 1:30:32.760 --> 1:30:34.800 have a lot of that stuff out in November UM, 1:30:34.840 --> 1:30:36.840 and then our next big launch probably won't be coming 1:30:36.920 --> 1:30:41.360 until spring. UM. Some of that stuff. My wife Jen 1:30:41.520 --> 1:30:45.479 runs our marketing side of things and brand management, and 1:30:46.040 --> 1:30:49.000 she'd be upset if I tell you all this. But 1:30:49.080 --> 1:30:51.519 you know what, I can't believe you want just talk 1:30:51.520 --> 1:30:54.200 about what I'm most excited about, you the rifle sling. 1:30:54.840 --> 1:30:57.479 This you already put it on the instant. But this 1:30:57.600 --> 1:31:02.320 thing is no No, I didn't get in trouble um that. 1:31:02.479 --> 1:31:04.840 I think it's the coolest thing. I think it's gonna 1:31:04.920 --> 1:31:07.599 The feedback on it so far has been really good. Um, 1:31:07.720 --> 1:31:10.920 everybody's been out testing it. Um to what degree can 1:31:10.960 --> 1:31:13.960 I explain it? Well, you already explained it pretty strongly 1:31:14.040 --> 1:31:17.400 in the Okay, So picture you know when you got 1:31:17.439 --> 1:31:19.720 your backpack on, how you can't get your I'm talking 1:31:19.760 --> 1:31:21.800 to you the audience, not you, Paul, necessarily, but I'm 1:31:21.840 --> 1:31:23.479 sure you're a wear of this when you got your 1:31:23.520 --> 1:31:25.439 backpack on and your rifle sling, and your rifle sling 1:31:25.479 --> 1:31:28.040 will stay put. I've in the pound, if you've ever 1:31:28.080 --> 1:31:30.000 seen this, I've in the past taking a big gass 1:31:30.120 --> 1:31:33.439 button off an old coat and sewing that big gass 1:31:33.520 --> 1:31:36.800 button to the top of my shoulder strap so you 1:31:36.920 --> 1:31:39.719 had a place to hook your sling. So I sold 1:31:39.760 --> 1:31:41.640 it to the top of my backpack shoulder strap and 1:31:41.680 --> 1:31:43.880 you can like tuck your sling into that button. You 1:31:43.960 --> 1:31:48.000 picture what I'm saying, Um, which kind of works. But 1:31:48.240 --> 1:31:49.680 either way, it's a pint in the ass. But this 1:31:49.840 --> 1:31:54.160 thing you have, there's like an attachment clip, like what 1:31:54.200 --> 1:31:58.280 do you call a normal buckle, Yeah, side release buck 1:31:58.320 --> 1:32:02.120 where you pinch it that the female end of that 1:32:02.920 --> 1:32:06.519 hooks to your backpack strap. And then the male end 1:32:06.560 --> 1:32:10.160 of that is just on your sling. What was the 1:32:10.280 --> 1:32:13.360 vice personal on the sling? Okay, females on a sling, 1:32:13.439 --> 1:32:15.840 the males on the backpack. So when you put your 1:32:15.960 --> 1:32:19.240 rifle over your shoulder, you can just take one hand 1:32:19.280 --> 1:32:24.880 and and that's some bitches clicked two Like the top 1:32:24.920 --> 1:32:27.680 of your sling is clicked to your pack and you 1:32:27.760 --> 1:32:32.760 can do any amount of crick crossing, log jumping. No slippage, 1:32:33.800 --> 1:32:35.320 that's the worst thing about it. And then when you 1:32:35.360 --> 1:32:37.280 want it down, it's just like you just reach up 1:32:38.400 --> 1:32:40.519 and it's free in your hand or this is our thing. 1:32:40.560 --> 1:32:42.040 You can like actually hook it to the bottom your 1:32:42.040 --> 1:32:45.240 waist belt too. But that thing just man like going 1:32:45.320 --> 1:32:47.680 up sheep hunting, going up and around junk all the time. 1:32:47.720 --> 1:32:49.400 I just kept it clicked in because the other thing 1:32:49.479 --> 1:32:51.120 is you don't you're not like looking for a pull 1:32:51.160 --> 1:32:53.040 cord raining. It's just like right there, just reach up 1:32:54.280 --> 1:32:56.519 very very fast and you can walk without holding your 1:32:56.520 --> 1:32:57.840 sling the whole time. You need to hold your sling 1:32:57.880 --> 1:32:59.320 the whole time. You can hold your track and poles. 1:32:59.720 --> 1:33:03.240 Tell you what, man, it's like Nobel Prize. I hope 1:33:03.240 --> 1:33:06.840 there's like a Nobel Prize and rifle sling making no offense. 1:33:06.880 --> 1:33:09.920 But that's such a simple innovation that's gonna I'm like, 1:33:10.000 --> 1:33:11.719 add a cart. I'm ready to push the button because 1:33:12.000 --> 1:33:13.920 I've struggled with that same thing. And just as you're 1:33:13.960 --> 1:33:16.080 describing it, it's like, where's that been all my life? 1:33:16.120 --> 1:33:18.639 Pull up a prepay for ray here, Matt. He's ready 1:33:18.640 --> 1:33:20.240 to go. He's ready to make a pen working on 1:33:20.600 --> 1:33:23.240 the website. The no, it's like, man, it's like, you 1:33:23.280 --> 1:33:25.040 guys got some other cool stuff that I've had. I've 1:33:25.080 --> 1:33:27.160 been pretty to you, but I don't want to like 1:33:27.200 --> 1:33:29.080 spill the beans and know all the stuff like it 1:33:29.240 --> 1:33:32.960 might change. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's all production dependent, but 1:33:33.000 --> 1:33:35.040 we're hoping it all shows up and we'll we'll be 1:33:35.120 --> 1:33:37.160 ready to go by early spring. And a lot of 1:33:37.200 --> 1:33:39.200 that stuff, and like the sling, for example, you know, 1:33:39.240 --> 1:33:41.439 we're we have it with a bunch of guys here 1:33:41.439 --> 1:33:44.080 at Meat Eater, and we're all using it and making 1:33:44.080 --> 1:33:47.880 sure there's not any last minute changes before we you know, 1:33:48.040 --> 1:33:50.800 pull the track around a full production run. But you know, 1:33:50.880 --> 1:33:52.439 I just heard you today about you know about like 1:33:52.800 --> 1:33:55.880 you're talking about like businessmen people in manufacturing, like having 1:33:55.920 --> 1:33:57.880 all these problems with like shipping and all that. Right now. 1:33:58.840 --> 1:34:01.599 I heard today that this thing that there's a huge 1:34:01.680 --> 1:34:04.559 like just like there's a shipping crisis in this country, 1:34:04.640 --> 1:34:09.000 particularly import export, but even even domestic there's shipping issues. 1:34:09.600 --> 1:34:13.919 And they're saying that when the um Infrastructure Bill passes 1:34:14.400 --> 1:34:18.479 that they're anticipating um it. Actually this is just this 1:34:18.640 --> 1:34:20.600 is and I'm not like a subject matter expert on this. 1:34:21.280 --> 1:34:24.000 If when the infrastructure Bill passes, the amount of like 1:34:24.240 --> 1:34:28.120 shipping and trucking resources that will go into construction because 1:34:28.120 --> 1:34:30.879 the money is so much better that it's gonna worsen 1:34:31.800 --> 1:34:33.960 and that you haven't even this is the good old 1:34:34.040 --> 1:34:39.559 days right now, and shipping and transportation in in context 1:34:39.640 --> 1:34:42.080 of what the next couple of years could look like. Yeah, 1:34:42.120 --> 1:34:44.519 we've heard that, like no one's like, oh, we're getting 1:34:44.560 --> 1:34:46.479 out of it. We've heard that that we should prepare 1:34:46.600 --> 1:34:50.679 for some some uh some of that those issues. Although 1:34:50.720 --> 1:34:53.000 it's weird because We've gone the last ten years with 1:34:53.400 --> 1:34:55.240 not being able to keep anything in stock, and right 1:34:55.280 --> 1:35:00.240 now we have a pretty good We're opposite. You're sucking 1:35:00.240 --> 1:35:03.360 the trend, all right, man, next time you come out, 1:35:03.400 --> 1:35:04.840 we got we gotta talk a whole bunch about we 1:35:05.160 --> 1:35:06.800 were gonna do it. I don't know what happened about 1:35:06.880 --> 1:35:11.439 the big horn. Yeah, I thought about bringing that head 1:35:11.479 --> 1:35:15.439 in and listen to the honest bringing his in. What 1:35:15.600 --> 1:35:17.439 you do with the hide on that thing? It's actually 1:35:17.560 --> 1:35:20.840 I so I tried to do a full cape. I 1:35:20.920 --> 1:35:24.120 was by myself full body mount. My wife suggested I 1:35:24.240 --> 1:35:25.960 do a full body mount, which I was going to 1:35:26.080 --> 1:35:29.479 take her up on, and um ended up being by 1:35:29.560 --> 1:35:32.320 myself and in a bad position and ended up doing 1:35:32.400 --> 1:35:35.080 three quarters, but brought it out. It's all tanned up. 1:35:35.080 --> 1:35:38.840 I'm gonna do a pedestal mount with the reproduction and 1:35:38.960 --> 1:35:42.120 then you owe the freedom mount. I'm gonna have to 1:35:42.160 --> 1:35:46.559 get one of these, uh, one of these uh desktop pedestal. 1:35:49.360 --> 1:35:51.040 Oh you know it won't work. I was gonna ask, 1:35:51.080 --> 1:35:52.920 are they That's the only thing I found? Like, I 1:35:53.320 --> 1:35:55.920 won't hold a musk ox and want the Oh no, no, 1:35:56.160 --> 1:35:59.599 it'll hold a doll sheet. What am I saying it holds, 1:35:59.600 --> 1:36:02.599 It holds the sheep. But see those big horns are 1:36:02.680 --> 1:36:05.000 so heavy, it won't hold the musk ox. I know 1:36:05.160 --> 1:36:09.240 that I put. Okay, our desk amount that we're talking about, 1:36:09.760 --> 1:36:13.120 you can put. I've put everything from prong horn, we 1:36:13.280 --> 1:36:15.920 put white tails of all shapes and sizes, mule deer 1:36:16.040 --> 1:36:20.040 of all shapes and sizes. It holds everything. I put 1:36:20.160 --> 1:36:23.040 doll sheep on it. It holds a doll sheep beautifully. 1:36:23.840 --> 1:36:26.880 But the big horns like got a little more, a 1:36:26.880 --> 1:36:30.439 little more gir but you should throw one on there. Yeah, 1:36:30.439 --> 1:36:34.080 I didn't see what happens, but yeah I was wrong. 1:36:34.200 --> 1:36:37.880 I feel optimistic that it will hold it. We'll try 1:36:37.880 --> 1:36:39.519 it out and then you have it on your desk. 1:36:40.120 --> 1:36:52.599 That's what I want. Okay, shifted gears. Here minute, we're 1:36:52.640 --> 1:36:54.960 talking to another law enforcement from the Fish and Game 1:36:55.000 --> 1:36:58.040 fish Cops, fish foze. What do you guys call yourselves? 1:36:58.320 --> 1:37:02.320 Fish fuzz fish fuzz fish cops, fish falls. So let 1:37:02.400 --> 1:37:06.679 me reintroduce Sam. Here is an interesting story I found 1:37:06.680 --> 1:37:11.519 out about Sam because when we're working on our Close Calls, 1:37:12.080 --> 1:37:14.680 we're like casting, for lack of a better word, for 1:37:14.760 --> 1:37:20.320 our Close Calls series and um, I was talking to 1:37:20.400 --> 1:37:22.519 someone I can't remember who else talking you now, and 1:37:22.600 --> 1:37:24.240 so I was like, Oh, there's this guy. He's got 1:37:24.320 --> 1:37:27.600 this crazy story about the mud puddle story. Then like 1:37:27.800 --> 1:37:31.280 he's alive today. I don't Wane gives you a detail 1:37:31.280 --> 1:37:34.120 away on that one. Then we played the whole damn 1:37:34.200 --> 1:37:36.160 thing on the show. So yeah, you heard so if 1:37:36.160 --> 1:37:37.920 you listened to the show Reggae, they already heard Sam's 1:37:38.000 --> 1:37:40.559 mud puddle story. But anyways, I found out about him. 1:37:40.560 --> 1:37:42.639 Someone told me this story was like but they didn't 1:37:42.640 --> 1:37:45.240 know who it was, and I think they said something 1:37:45.320 --> 1:37:47.160 like whoever was I can't remember his name, but I 1:37:47.240 --> 1:37:49.880 think he went to work for like Pheasants Forever or 1:37:49.920 --> 1:37:52.160 something like that. So I send out a text to 1:37:52.200 --> 1:37:55.000 a few of my colleagues are pretty well connected, and 1:37:55.080 --> 1:37:58.800 I'm like, hey, guy, Arizona game Warden, something new with 1:37:58.840 --> 1:38:01.639 the mud puddle and pheasant is Forever. And like thirty 1:38:01.720 --> 1:38:03.759 seconds later I get like a thing like Sam Laurie, 1:38:03.960 --> 1:38:07.920 you know, And we got in touch and we recorded story, 1:38:08.200 --> 1:38:10.080 and then the process of doing that, we kept talking 1:38:10.080 --> 1:38:15.160 about that you had completed a book of like a 1:38:15.240 --> 1:38:19.439 really good book of game Warden stories and you call 1:38:19.520 --> 1:38:24.040 it remembering the Outlaws, and uh, I don't even full title. 1:38:24.120 --> 1:38:27.200 It's stories of the Past. So this is from two 1:38:27.240 --> 1:38:32.840 thousand four an Arizona game ranger remembering the Outlaws, and 1:38:33.200 --> 1:38:35.599 basically and read it that that was funny. Is um 1:38:37.400 --> 1:38:40.240 uh it's almost like you can correct me on this, 1:38:40.320 --> 1:38:43.840 but it's almost like remembering them fondly, like you have 1:38:45.120 --> 1:38:48.040 you have a little bit of Uh you got a 1:38:48.080 --> 1:38:52.200 real soft spot for the Outlaws. Yeah. I think each 1:38:52.280 --> 1:38:54.879 one of them kind of left a little notchuring me somewhere, 1:38:55.000 --> 1:38:57.520 you know. I mean there was a lot of personalities 1:38:57.600 --> 1:39:02.080 out there. Yeah. Uh. You know I used to tell 1:39:02.120 --> 1:39:05.599 a lot of these stories two friends and my kids 1:39:05.640 --> 1:39:07.560 and things, and I always say, Dad, you got to 1:39:07.600 --> 1:39:11.280 write those down. And uh. So it's actually when I 1:39:11.360 --> 1:39:15.120 was working for Friends forever, because we were traveling all 1:39:15.160 --> 1:39:19.120 over the country and at meetings and evenings at the hotels, 1:39:19.640 --> 1:39:22.800 I'd write rather than go down to the watering holes. 1:39:23.439 --> 1:39:29.720 And yeah, fell more productive and uh but only you 1:39:29.800 --> 1:39:32.360 know I as Paul was saying, you know, he had 1:39:32.400 --> 1:39:38.080 a desire to become a wildife a game officer. It's funny. 1:39:38.120 --> 1:39:43.000 I spoke to the University of Montana Tuesday wildlife class 1:39:43.080 --> 1:39:46.920 about careers and wildife, and I said that to of 1:39:47.040 --> 1:39:50.559 them that when I went to school. Uh the professor 1:39:50.640 --> 1:39:52.760 stood up and said, two of you out of this 1:39:52.960 --> 1:39:56.439 class of a hundred will become biologists. The rest of 1:39:56.520 --> 1:39:59.800 you are going to be car salesman's or lawyers or whatever. 1:40:00.720 --> 1:40:03.720 And uh so I was strictly a biologist. I wanted to. 1:40:03.960 --> 1:40:07.080 I was a waterfowl nut. I went to work for 1:40:07.160 --> 1:40:10.560 Northern Prairie while I've researched station study and pintails, and 1:40:11.160 --> 1:40:15.160 my whole life was ducks. And I had a move 1:40:15.240 --> 1:40:19.760 to Arizona, where I ended up doing more work with 1:40:19.920 --> 1:40:22.960 some big game animals. And a buddy of mine said, 1:40:22.960 --> 1:40:25.760 you have to go out for the wildlife officer of 1:40:25.760 --> 1:40:28.640 the game warding jobs. And I didn't want to be 1:40:28.720 --> 1:40:32.120 a game ward and I thought that's beneath me, and 1:40:32.600 --> 1:40:34.639 but no I did. I went to the academy, ended 1:40:34.720 --> 1:40:38.280 up hiring on and uh. You know, as you've probably 1:40:38.360 --> 1:40:41.320 heard a lot of people refer to the game warding 1:40:41.400 --> 1:40:44.280 job as the most dangerous law enforcement job there is. 1:40:45.120 --> 1:40:48.120 I think yours was, Paul. I mean, we deal with 1:40:48.280 --> 1:40:50.920 people with guns all the time, but I don't have 1:40:51.040 --> 1:40:53.080 to do that stuff you guys did all the time 1:40:53.160 --> 1:40:56.439 with real crime. I guess if you call it so 1:40:57.800 --> 1:41:03.360 so anyway, yeah, uh, as the unit manager there, you're 1:41:03.400 --> 1:41:06.080 also the biologist, so we had to do all the 1:41:06.120 --> 1:41:09.800 wildlife surveys and fisheries management and all that. But you're 1:41:09.800 --> 1:41:14.160 in charge of a big geography um as also the warden. 1:41:14.600 --> 1:41:18.160 And uh, that's where those tales started. I I got 1:41:18.240 --> 1:41:22.320 a real interest in interview and interrogation. I became kind 1:41:22.360 --> 1:41:24.960 of a specialist. And yeah, there's a lot about that 1:41:25.040 --> 1:41:27.839 in the bookman like kind of like like your approach, 1:41:29.320 --> 1:41:31.840 like you don't come in hot, I want I want 1:41:31.880 --> 1:41:35.280 you to kind of I guess, uh, well, I just 1:41:35.400 --> 1:41:37.640 want to get the truth out of you. And uh 1:41:38.000 --> 1:41:39.720 and at the end, I can't tell you how many 1:41:39.840 --> 1:41:44.040 times people pretty much told the whole story and thank 1:41:44.120 --> 1:41:47.040 me for because they needed to get it off their chests. 1:41:48.000 --> 1:41:49.880 One of the things I like about the book too, is, uh, 1:41:50.360 --> 1:41:52.280 maybe you're able to do this because you've got enough 1:41:52.320 --> 1:41:54.320 distance from it now, but you kind of lay out 1:41:55.240 --> 1:41:57.200 It's a bold move because in the beginning you kind 1:41:57.200 --> 1:42:01.200 of lay out your sort of violator credentials, which which like, 1:42:01.320 --> 1:42:03.400 like you said, earlier. Man, if you're a passionate hunter 1:42:03.400 --> 1:42:07.439 and anger like you just have, you've broken laws, and 1:42:07.840 --> 1:42:11.679 you talk about being a kid, and I'm sure there's 1:42:11.760 --> 1:42:13.720 more we talked about being a kid and like an 1:42:13.800 --> 1:42:15.960 uncle saying, don't cross the river. You know, we're not 1:42:15.960 --> 1:42:17.840 allowed to hunt outside of the river. And how at 1:42:17.880 --> 1:42:19.320 the end of the day, sure enough you're on the 1:42:19.360 --> 1:42:22.800 other side of the river, and it's just right. And 1:42:23.479 --> 1:42:26.160 I think that that that you tell them that story 1:42:26.200 --> 1:42:28.880 about yourself and kind of that you know, in a 1:42:28.920 --> 1:42:31.200 lot of ways, you're a product of generations ahead of you, 1:42:31.439 --> 1:42:33.479 you know, And and I wrote about it one of 1:42:33.560 --> 1:42:37.840 my books. Man, I mean, um, we like I grew 1:42:37.920 --> 1:42:40.479 up around a lot of game law breaking. There were 1:42:40.520 --> 1:42:43.320 certain inviable things, like there's certain things you just would 1:42:43.439 --> 1:42:45.120 never do, Like no one in my family would ever 1:42:45.240 --> 1:42:50.400 go jack lighting deer, like, but you would definitely. Um, 1:42:51.320 --> 1:42:54.479 it was just they people don't even go out of 1:42:54.479 --> 1:42:57.880 their way to like hide it. That modu a dough tag, 1:42:59.040 --> 1:43:03.120 which means that everybody has a dough tag until Mak 1:43:03.160 --> 1:43:04.679 comes out and puts the dough tag on a deer. 1:43:05.000 --> 1:43:07.560 And it wasn't even like and it wasn't even like 1:43:07.600 --> 1:43:08.920 when I was looking at it wasn't even like a 1:43:09.080 --> 1:43:12.360 s It was just just it took me a long 1:43:12.400 --> 1:43:14.320 time to realize that somehow you weren't supposed to do that. 1:43:15.200 --> 1:43:16.800 And I think you kind of acknowledged in little ways 1:43:16.800 --> 1:43:19.760 of having like some of that in your upbringing, which 1:43:19.800 --> 1:43:21.479 probably leads to that thing of how you had a 1:43:21.560 --> 1:43:25.479 little bit of you never had hate for hunters and anglers. No, 1:43:25.720 --> 1:43:27.760 And as I said, I think the far majority of 1:43:27.880 --> 1:43:32.880 them were all, you know, good people and ethical users 1:43:32.960 --> 1:43:36.080 of the resource. I can't tell you how many how 1:43:36.160 --> 1:43:38.880 many times if you know, this book focuses on a 1:43:38.960 --> 1:43:43.040 lot of bad guys, um, but that was one tenth 1:43:43.120 --> 1:43:45.599 of one percent of one percent of all the people 1:43:45.680 --> 1:43:49.680 I contacted. And when you saw, you know, they're what 1:43:49.840 --> 1:43:55.519 I call opportunistic poachers. They didn't leave the house that 1:43:55.760 --> 1:44:00.080 morning to violate a game law, but they got a 1:44:00.200 --> 1:44:04.679 situation where they're excited and they shot the wrong animal, 1:44:04.840 --> 1:44:07.519 or they they shot one in a unit they weren't 1:44:07.520 --> 1:44:11.960 supposed to be in. And and those guys, uh, they're 1:44:12.160 --> 1:44:14.240 like a dime a dozen, you're gonna run into it 1:44:14.280 --> 1:44:18.120 all the time. What I kind of focused on was 1:44:19.000 --> 1:44:22.439 what are what is that one percent. I had a 1:44:22.520 --> 1:44:25.720 guy tell me once that every small town or every 1:44:25.800 --> 1:44:29.720 town has a one percent poacher, the real bad guy. 1:44:30.600 --> 1:44:32.640 And those are the ones you kind of want to 1:44:32.680 --> 1:44:35.040 focus on and spend a lot of attention on trying 1:44:35.120 --> 1:44:37.760 to to put out a business. If you have you 1:44:37.840 --> 1:44:42.160 heard the turn of the criminologist who had a term superpoachers. Yeah, 1:44:42.320 --> 1:44:46.400 I guess like a form of sociopath seeing those people. 1:44:46.479 --> 1:44:50.840 They're not they're not bothered at all by their activities 1:44:50.920 --> 1:44:53.920 on the resource. I mean there's one guy that I 1:44:53.960 --> 1:44:56.519 don't know if you read the one about the the 1:44:56.720 --> 1:45:00.280 the lion guy like setting those baited hooks out I 1:45:00.320 --> 1:45:04.679 mean trouble hooks with meat on him on steal leaders 1:45:05.520 --> 1:45:09.600 to catch anything he could. Yeah, I'll guarantee you that 1:45:09.640 --> 1:45:11.960 guy is still alive. He's doing something wrong right now 1:45:12.040 --> 1:45:14.720 for a while. Guarantee there's no no I got you, 1:45:15.240 --> 1:45:17.880 you know. And and I think that's one of the 1:45:18.000 --> 1:45:22.000 things that that I hope people that read this book 1:45:22.800 --> 1:45:25.760 might just have a little more inclination to say, you 1:45:25.840 --> 1:45:28.640 know what, maybe I won't put up with no one 1:45:28.720 --> 1:45:32.080 old Bob doing what he's doing and and give a 1:45:32.200 --> 1:45:35.600 call and well that that's like there's a certain egregiousness. 1:45:35.680 --> 1:45:37.519 And you pointed out in that story about the guy 1:45:37.600 --> 1:45:40.800 with the bated trouble hooks where it's like and you 1:45:40.920 --> 1:45:43.760 describe going on the scene and you can tell where 1:45:43.800 --> 1:45:47.640 he's caught somehow, I've gotten a line in one and 1:45:47.960 --> 1:45:50.600 he's got just like junk out and like meat scraps 1:45:50.720 --> 1:45:54.800 and and just it almost like the way you describe it, 1:45:55.360 --> 1:45:57.200 it's almost like walking and it's like kind of like 1:45:57.280 --> 1:46:00.720 an insanity that someone's dealing with. It was and I 1:46:00.800 --> 1:46:04.280 can tell you this, that was way way in the backwood. 1:46:04.360 --> 1:46:07.240 I mean we we took a four wheel drive probably 1:46:07.360 --> 1:46:11.280 three and a half hours before we trailered and got 1:46:11.400 --> 1:46:14.040 horses and went. We were actually doing a deer survey 1:46:14.120 --> 1:46:17.160 at the time. And when you come across something like 1:46:17.320 --> 1:46:20.680 that that far out into Buddhi's the guy had no 1:46:21.520 --> 1:46:23.599 concern at all that they were going to be caught. 1:46:24.960 --> 1:46:28.840 I mean there it was such such an egregious act 1:46:29.160 --> 1:46:31.160 that I mean, those are the ones that bother you. 1:46:31.800 --> 1:46:35.160 And I'm sure Paul you you can remember the cases 1:46:35.240 --> 1:46:37.679 that bothered you a lot of times. With you guys, 1:46:37.760 --> 1:46:42.360 it's it's people, it's children, and from a wildlife officer 1:46:42.520 --> 1:46:47.800 when you see just an absolute disregard for critter. Yeah, 1:46:47.960 --> 1:46:50.599 and this guy, you know, the arrogance. I can remember 1:46:50.720 --> 1:46:54.560 interviewing him, you know, for me to you, and this 1:46:54.760 --> 1:46:57.400 guy was kind of like the old sociopath and looked 1:46:57.479 --> 1:47:00.800 right through you. He didn't give a yeah what you 1:47:00.840 --> 1:47:02.760 were about to talk to about? You can tell him 1:47:02.760 --> 1:47:07.439 your stories. A lot of the guys, um, they they're 1:47:07.479 --> 1:47:09.840 they're good enough where they immediately go into a game 1:47:10.040 --> 1:47:13.240 like as you interview in them, it becomes like everyone 1:47:13.320 --> 1:47:16.599 in the room knows but you the way you describe 1:47:16.640 --> 1:47:20.920 how also their wheels are turning and they're like this 1:47:21.040 --> 1:47:23.840 guy knows, he knows what I did, but I like, 1:47:24.560 --> 1:47:27.679 here's I'm already playing my defense. I mean like he's 1:47:27.680 --> 1:47:30.080 already in the courthouse, do you know what I mean? Like, 1:47:30.120 --> 1:47:31.800 And they're they're not like, oh you got me, and 1:47:31.840 --> 1:47:33.960 they don't break down in tears, you know, but they're like, okay, 1:47:34.000 --> 1:47:35.560 I can play this game with you. Well, you know, 1:47:35.680 --> 1:47:39.479 it was was always funny to me, is, uh, let's 1:47:39.520 --> 1:47:43.280 just say Steve did something wrong. And Paul called me 1:47:43.400 --> 1:47:45.559 up and said, hey, Steve shot a deer out of season, 1:47:46.520 --> 1:47:48.320 And I said, well, I'll tell you what I'm gonna 1:47:48.360 --> 1:47:50.800 do to gather a little bit of information. But I 1:47:50.880 --> 1:47:53.760 want to go talk to Steve. And I pick up 1:47:53.840 --> 1:47:57.200 the phone and I call you, Steve Sam Laurien with 1:47:57.240 --> 1:47:59.560 Game and Fish Department. Hey, I just wanted to know 1:47:59.680 --> 1:48:02.519 if I meet you this afternoon, kind a few things 1:48:02.560 --> 1:48:08.240 I wanted to ask you. Um, yeah, I guess after work. 1:48:09.960 --> 1:48:15.680 Uh yeah, that'd be fine. Show up there and I'd 1:48:15.760 --> 1:48:17.960 come up and Steve, do you have any idea what 1:48:18.040 --> 1:48:22.000 I want to talk to you about? And they'd say, well, no, 1:48:23.280 --> 1:48:27.880 Well the person that was innocent would always say on 1:48:28.040 --> 1:48:32.040 the phone, what is it about? Oh, the bad guy 1:48:32.240 --> 1:48:36.000 already knew what it was about, and I'm going to 1:48:36.080 --> 1:48:40.080 talk to him. So the first chink in the old 1:48:40.120 --> 1:48:43.600 interview process happened before I even got there. He just 1:48:43.680 --> 1:48:46.080 gave that away. Yeah, I've got a kind of a 1:48:46.120 --> 1:48:49.160 good little one. You shouldn't revealed that. There's so many 1:48:49.240 --> 1:48:53.760 more though, for my brothers and sisters that are out 1:48:53.800 --> 1:48:57.000 there still enforcing while if flaws and other laws, you'll 1:48:57.040 --> 1:48:59.680 replace that check with another trainers and many many more. 1:49:00.240 --> 1:49:03.280 There's a funny story you got here where you're out checking, 1:49:03.320 --> 1:49:05.679 you're like working along the shore of a lake checking 1:49:05.760 --> 1:49:07.240 licenses and you get your guy and he's like, I 1:49:07.280 --> 1:49:11.840 don't have my license on you, and so um you 1:49:12.000 --> 1:49:13.800 kinda you're trying to give them the benefit of doubt, 1:49:14.000 --> 1:49:16.280 and you're like, hey, just leave your gear here and 1:49:16.360 --> 1:49:18.280 just go get your license, you know. And a while 1:49:18.360 --> 1:49:20.000 goes by, he's like, the guy never comes back. The 1:49:20.000 --> 1:49:22.160 guy never comes back. Guy never comes back. Eventually you 1:49:22.280 --> 1:49:26.200 gather up his gear and tell about how you caught up. 1:49:26.479 --> 1:49:28.000 We'll tell you how you caught up with the guy. 1:49:28.680 --> 1:49:31.840 So there was that's what we call furtive gestures. This 1:49:32.000 --> 1:49:35.040 win here, you're shaking you. If someone asked you for 1:49:35.160 --> 1:49:38.960 your fishing or hunting license today, you're gonna be shaken 1:49:39.000 --> 1:49:40.880 when you get it out of your wallet, no matter what, 1:49:41.160 --> 1:49:42.960 no matter what, because I don't know, maybe I did 1:49:43.000 --> 1:49:45.720 something wrong and you love it. I just love it. No, 1:49:45.920 --> 1:49:49.639 I'm just kidding on that. So there was furtive gestures, 1:49:49.640 --> 1:49:52.240 a little bit of excess with this particular guy. And 1:49:52.360 --> 1:49:55.200 I thought, boy, there's something wrong here, and the old 1:49:55.400 --> 1:49:58.120 warrant is what's hitting me in the hand. And he 1:49:58.240 --> 1:50:00.639 has a warrant. That's what I'm thinking out because there's 1:50:00.680 --> 1:50:04.000 more to this than blah blah blah. So yeah, he 1:50:04.080 --> 1:50:06.160 says it's in his glove box. And there's a bunch 1:50:06.160 --> 1:50:07.960 of other fishermen on the shore. And I said, well, 1:50:07.960 --> 1:50:11.680 I'll just continue I'm checking these guys and and then 1:50:11.720 --> 1:50:14.479 I'll i'll you could come back here and leave your 1:50:14.520 --> 1:50:17.880 gear here. Well, he never came back. So I gathered 1:50:17.960 --> 1:50:21.400 up his gear and started walking back to my patrol truck. 1:50:21.520 --> 1:50:25.719 And at the trail, I go on a little branch fell. 1:50:26.800 --> 1:50:29.360 I looked down on the ground a little five inch 1:50:29.600 --> 1:50:32.760 hunk of oak leaf, and I could kind of what 1:50:33.040 --> 1:50:35.280 the heck. And I looked up there and there he was. 1:50:37.120 --> 1:50:42.479 He was hanging on that like a gibbon. I can't 1:50:42.560 --> 1:50:45.840 remember his name, but I summoned him to come on 1:50:46.080 --> 1:50:49.160 down out of that tree. And this is just a 1:50:49.320 --> 1:50:53.080 fishing violation, you know, and and uh, I don't want 1:50:53.080 --> 1:50:54.639 you to fallow it out of Yeah, I think long 1:50:54.720 --> 1:50:57.160 story shore. I think he did have a warrant and 1:50:57.320 --> 1:51:00.280 he I think he got a little ride. Yeah, yeah, 1:51:01.760 --> 1:51:05.960 maybe that's bad. Yeah, another I'm gonna lay out another 1:51:06.000 --> 1:51:08.360 game warding trick, you guys got. I guess he told 1:51:08.400 --> 1:51:11.800 the books. I can tell it, uh that when this 1:51:11.920 --> 1:51:14.679 kind of surprised me a little bit when game draws 1:51:14.800 --> 1:51:20.280 come out so limited tag draws that you like to 1:51:20.360 --> 1:51:23.640 go one, you go see if you got anything, and 1:51:23.720 --> 1:51:27.559 then you like to see did any do do our 1:51:27.680 --> 1:51:31.120 known violators? You are one percenters? Have our one percenters 1:51:31.200 --> 1:51:36.640 drawn any tags? But of more interest you is have 1:51:37.280 --> 1:51:41.639 our have our one percenters had a mother who drew 1:51:41.680 --> 1:51:46.800 a very coveted big game tag. Yeah, and you're like, 1:51:46.880 --> 1:51:50.240 I just have a feeling it's not his mom. But 1:51:51.600 --> 1:51:55.519 in Arizona mom could have given to him. Right. No, No, 1:51:55.840 --> 1:52:00.040 you have to shoot the animal with the tag, and 1:52:00.120 --> 1:52:05.840 there's no there's nobody hunting transferable way. Yeah, because I 1:52:05.960 --> 1:52:08.640 think I know a lot of people who's who have 1:52:08.760 --> 1:52:10.960 their spouses apply when they get enough points and they 1:52:11.040 --> 1:52:14.680 just chant the kids. There might be some new regulations 1:52:14.760 --> 1:52:21.840 associated with kids or something. But well, the reason I 1:52:21.960 --> 1:52:24.160 think that he was right at the time is he 1:52:24.240 --> 1:52:27.559 tells the whole damn story and then arrested the guy. Well, 1:52:27.960 --> 1:52:31.160 if you have these, yeah, you have a few red flags. 1:52:31.200 --> 1:52:33.519 But I remember this is some time of co where 1:52:33.880 --> 1:52:35.760 you know, you look at an officer's car now and 1:52:35.800 --> 1:52:38.639 there's a laptop there. You know, we had this hard 1:52:38.960 --> 1:52:43.040 print out. Then you'd go through it and find, oh, 1:52:43.320 --> 1:52:49.000 there's so and so's grandma and and uh you'd pull 1:52:49.120 --> 1:52:52.960 into camp and you know there's no Grandma to be found, 1:52:53.920 --> 1:52:55.920 you know. And so yeah, you kind of push it 1:52:55.960 --> 1:53:01.080 a little further. And you know, I mean everybody says, 1:53:01.080 --> 1:53:03.120 so what a minute, just buddy hunting. They allow that 1:53:03.200 --> 1:53:05.679 in all kinds of states, and but where they don't 1:53:05.720 --> 1:53:08.120 allow it, you know, and you could get into this. 1:53:08.360 --> 1:53:13.040 It's based on the models for for genuinating the permit 1:53:13.200 --> 1:53:18.280 numbers and and it's based on the harvest. And if 1:53:18.320 --> 1:53:21.559 you're just an outstanding hunter and you can shoot five elk, 1:53:22.760 --> 1:53:26.080 that's going to disrupt the model that they're putting together 1:53:26.200 --> 1:53:30.280 that generates the permit number. And so you need to 1:53:30.560 --> 1:53:32.720 you need to follow the follow the law in those 1:53:32.800 --> 1:53:36.840 cases outstanding hunter or unethical hunter who shoots five right, 1:53:36.880 --> 1:53:39.720 And I think you know this is you know, a 1:53:39.840 --> 1:53:42.679 pitch if I will to to to all of your listeners. 1:53:42.840 --> 1:53:49.440 Is as you know, there's little teeny pieces of information 1:53:49.520 --> 1:53:52.800 that come across to wildlife officers or law enforcement officers 1:53:52.840 --> 1:53:56.880 in general that you might not think as much. I 1:53:57.040 --> 1:53:59.799 pulled into a gas station last night and I noticed 1:53:59.840 --> 1:54:04.200 there were some blood on a bumper. It's not hunting season. Well, 1:54:04.240 --> 1:54:08.080 the either guy did something wrong, uh you know, maybe 1:54:08.439 --> 1:54:12.439 maybe did something to his a human or there's some 1:54:12.560 --> 1:54:15.000 kind of wildlife in fraction. Try to license number down 1:54:15.080 --> 1:54:18.559 and just call and and uh, you know, there were 1:54:18.640 --> 1:54:22.000 many cases that we made that we were looking for 1:54:22.439 --> 1:54:25.960 the shooter of an animal and LOI behold, someone called 1:54:26.240 --> 1:54:29.240 and gave us just that little piece we needed. And 1:54:29.760 --> 1:54:33.160 I think if more people did that, uh, you'd see 1:54:33.920 --> 1:54:37.080 a little bit less of some of the things going on. 1:54:38.640 --> 1:54:41.520 But one of the things I have to say too, 1:54:41.600 --> 1:54:43.480 and this goes back to that whole thing with law 1:54:43.600 --> 1:54:48.480 enforcement and and the feelings about law enforcement these days, 1:54:48.520 --> 1:54:52.280 and in order for people to come forward and say, hey, 1:54:52.920 --> 1:54:55.640 so and so did this, they have to trust you 1:54:56.960 --> 1:55:01.280 and and so the rewards both male and female. A 1:55:01.360 --> 1:55:05.080 wardens out there really have to build that community trust 1:55:05.160 --> 1:55:07.560 so that you will go talk to them and know 1:55:07.800 --> 1:55:09.960 that that's not going to come back to haunt you. 1:55:10.880 --> 1:55:13.760 And I think they do a great job at that. 1:55:14.120 --> 1:55:18.400 And my hat's off to all the the wildlife enforcement 1:55:18.440 --> 1:55:21.720 officers nationwide that go out there every day and try 1:55:21.800 --> 1:55:24.200 to do the right thing. Because as you know, all 1:55:24.280 --> 1:55:28.240 of you from meat Eater, the seven principles of the 1:55:28.320 --> 1:55:31.000 North American model. I can't name them all, but I 1:55:31.080 --> 1:55:33.920 know i'm aware of them. Number one, well, let's just 1:55:33.960 --> 1:55:37.680 go to number four is allocation by law, and so 1:55:37.920 --> 1:55:43.440 the permit structure is allocated and regulated by law. And 1:55:43.960 --> 1:55:47.879 obviously it's a public trust all that information to other pillars. 1:55:48.640 --> 1:55:51.600 But if you take that one pillar away, the models. 1:55:53.840 --> 1:55:57.800 So it's just as important as game populations need to 1:55:57.840 --> 1:56:01.440 be managed by science, right, It's just important as equal 1:56:01.480 --> 1:56:06.400 opportunity for all. It's just important there's no commercial harvest 1:56:06.520 --> 1:56:10.440 that will impact the population. So don't break the pillars down. 1:56:10.520 --> 1:56:15.400 That's what I told people. There's an interesting story, uh 1:56:16.920 --> 1:56:19.200 that has to do with those I was reminded of 1:56:19.280 --> 1:56:21.640 it when you're talking about the subtle queues. I remember 1:56:21.680 --> 1:56:25.520 you're talking to a guy and you just notice that 1:56:26.240 --> 1:56:29.560 blood under his fingernails as you're talking to him, Like, 1:56:29.600 --> 1:56:31.320 why is this guy got blood under spirals? And I 1:56:31.360 --> 1:56:33.600 think it's the guy that turned into These guys had 1:56:33.640 --> 1:56:36.280 this huge bear, huge they killed illegally, and what as 1:56:36.280 --> 1:56:40.000 funny is your you confiscate the bear and their last 1:56:40.040 --> 1:56:42.160 requests that can they get a quick griffin grin and 1:56:42.240 --> 1:56:46.000 you let it, and I'll guarantee you that picture is 1:56:46.080 --> 1:56:49.720 sitting somewhere on somebody's wall. It's like, just can we 1:56:49.840 --> 1:56:51.720 just please get a gripp and grind? All right? To 1:56:51.760 --> 1:56:53.120 get a grip and grind, then I'm out of here 1:56:53.160 --> 1:56:56.080 with your finger. You got you gotta do that, because 1:56:56.080 --> 1:56:58.720 how are you gonna load a four pound bear? You know, 1:56:58.800 --> 1:57:05.120 they had to help me before, I like you, because 1:57:05.120 --> 1:57:08.200 the guys like it was just an explanation for his actions. 1:57:08.560 --> 1:57:13.080 It was just so big. It ran across the road 1:57:13.320 --> 1:57:15.120 and we had to shoot it. It was just do 1:57:15.240 --> 1:57:18.120 you feel a little like they got what they wanted 1:57:18.280 --> 1:57:21.080 out of the deal with by getting a picture? Did 1:57:21.160 --> 1:57:23.480 they really want to hide in the meeting? Yeah, they 1:57:23.600 --> 1:57:26.360 wanted that trophy, and who knows they wanted to vaculum 1:57:26.400 --> 1:57:30.960 to boot, but they want but a little trophy. And 1:57:31.000 --> 1:57:33.040 these guys there, those are some of the ones that 1:57:33.080 --> 1:57:36.000 you can actually look back and laugh because they weren't 1:57:36.000 --> 1:57:38.560 a threat to me or they probably weren't going to 1:57:38.640 --> 1:57:42.120 ever do it again, but they got caught. So it 1:57:42.240 --> 1:57:47.080 was just so big, so big. So one of the 1:57:47.160 --> 1:57:49.920 easiest ways that I see these these dumbasses getting caught Today? 1:57:50.000 --> 1:57:52.040 They posted stuff to social media, so it doesn't take 1:57:52.040 --> 1:57:54.120 a lot of detective work to see a guy post 1:57:54.200 --> 1:57:58.120 him with a you know, uh, what was maybe you know, 1:57:58.560 --> 1:58:00.400 in the days, you probably were coming in on very 1:58:00.480 --> 1:58:02.800 much the beginning points of any kind of a flip phone, 1:58:02.840 --> 1:58:05.320 you know, people taking camera stuff like that. What was 1:58:05.360 --> 1:58:08.320 sort of the dumbass approaches to getting caught? You know, 1:58:08.640 --> 1:58:10.440 you were doing some detective work there with blood of 1:58:10.440 --> 1:58:11.960 the fingers and things like that. You had you had 1:58:12.000 --> 1:58:14.400 to be sort of aware of your surroundings. But what 1:58:14.480 --> 1:58:17.560 were the egregious ways that people tried to get caught? Um, 1:58:18.600 --> 1:58:21.640 you know, it was just they couldn't keep quiet, and 1:58:21.960 --> 1:58:27.160 you know, you'd you'd, uh, in certain instances, you'd work undercover, 1:58:27.320 --> 1:58:30.920 unmarked and go to a couple of different taverns and 1:58:31.360 --> 1:58:35.040 get right in there amongst them. Spend an evening at 1:58:35.080 --> 1:58:38.880 a popular bar with hunters. Yeah, and you start, you know, 1:58:39.400 --> 1:58:42.720 throwing out bear hunting and guiding or I want to 1:58:42.760 --> 1:58:45.760 get into this, and oh, you need to talk to Bob. 1:58:46.760 --> 1:58:49.200 You know, what do you guys doing here? We're looking 1:58:49.280 --> 1:58:53.240 we're real estate folks from California looking for some property 1:58:53.280 --> 1:58:55.800 to invest in and and then all of a sudden 1:58:55.840 --> 1:58:58.560 you started hearing all kinds of stuff. Back then, you 1:58:58.920 --> 1:59:02.320 you really imagine that being the pathway into hearing all 1:59:02.400 --> 1:59:04.440 kinds of stuff. I mean, I know you mentioned that 1:59:04.560 --> 1:59:08.160 the story that you when you're undercovered, but well, if 1:59:08.200 --> 1:59:10.920 you're if you, I mean a lot of those undercover 1:59:11.040 --> 1:59:15.200 ones in the book were specific I was working a guy. Oh, okay, 1:59:15.280 --> 1:59:18.480 so your story is Taylor do it? Yeah. But if 1:59:18.680 --> 1:59:21.880 if you were you know, let's just say living in 1:59:21.920 --> 1:59:27.280 a small town and you had suspicions about you, but 1:59:27.400 --> 1:59:31.360 I knew you hung out at whatever two lanes, I'd 1:59:31.400 --> 1:59:38.400 send an undercover officer in there to work. You find 1:59:38.440 --> 1:59:42.560 out what he's all about. Uh. You know. An other 1:59:42.600 --> 1:59:46.120 funny thing is you guys had that deal where you're 1:59:46.160 --> 1:59:50.720 working an illegal reptile enthusiast had like all these illegal 1:59:50.760 --> 1:59:53.200 snakes and stuff hiding his walls and stuff like that. 1:59:53.920 --> 1:59:56.320 But it was funny that he It's like a very 1:59:56.360 --> 1:59:58.440 small detail you mentioned the book because he kept his 1:59:58.560 --> 2:00:01.400 weed in a break open shotgun. That was like his 2:00:01.920 --> 2:00:05.600 his hiding place was in his gun, right, So it's 2:00:05.640 --> 2:00:08.040 just like such a weird place to hide your weeds. 2:00:08.400 --> 2:00:10.800 So you break over the shotgun, it's all in the barrel. 2:00:13.840 --> 2:00:17.200 Will never look here. You go into a search warrant. 2:00:17.320 --> 2:00:21.480 You make the place safe, right, So the first guys 2:00:21.560 --> 2:00:25.480 through the door, we put this guy in a handcuffs 2:00:25.520 --> 2:00:28.000 and he was in his bikini underwearld or forget that. 2:00:28.120 --> 2:00:31.800 A sickening site. But then we had to make the place. 2:00:32.080 --> 2:00:34.000 He's like, you're gonna go grab and check the guns, well, 2:00:34.280 --> 2:00:36.760 just everything, you're looking for everything, you know, And and 2:00:36.880 --> 2:00:39.640 here's this gun leaning against the bed and we've cracked 2:00:39.680 --> 2:00:42.760 it over to make sure the shell in the chamber, 2:00:42.880 --> 2:00:47.360 and what's that baggy in there? And that was just dope. Yeah, 2:00:47.480 --> 2:00:52.240 that was a bizarre one. Now you talk about strange, Yeah, 2:00:52.520 --> 2:00:54.960 you know, like tell people about what he had. So 2:00:55.600 --> 2:00:59.840 he had u just five different kinds of reptiles and 2:01:00.000 --> 2:01:01.920 I'm not a reptile guy, and all the food for 2:01:02.000 --> 2:01:04.280 him and everything. Man, when you walked in out house, 2:01:04.360 --> 2:01:08.120 your eyes burnt from the ammonia from all the mice 2:01:08.320 --> 2:01:12.360 that he was feeding these critters and h Anyway, we 2:01:12.440 --> 2:01:15.720 had some undercover officers work him that he had to 2:01:16.720 --> 2:01:21.600 gaboon vipers, which are nicknamed the one step snake. They 2:01:21.720 --> 2:01:26.120 bite you you get one step and you're done. And 2:01:26.400 --> 2:01:28.960 so I was the search team lead on that one, 2:01:29.000 --> 2:01:30.920 and I had four or five officers in there, and 2:01:30.960 --> 2:01:32.840 I didn't want any of them getting bit by one 2:01:32.880 --> 2:01:36.120 of these dark things. And and we couldn't find him. 2:01:36.120 --> 2:01:38.880 We had fishing poles, we were flipping out dirty clothes. 2:01:39.000 --> 2:01:42.879 And for some reason, Paul, why were the search warrants 2:01:42.880 --> 2:01:46.040 always in the worst places You can imagine? It's I 2:01:46.120 --> 2:01:51.520 don't know. I think it's just what they do. They're awful. Yeah, 2:01:51.880 --> 2:01:54.000 I don't even know. Every search warrant we did, it 2:01:54.080 --> 2:01:56.920 was like another set of gloves on top of my gloves. 2:01:57.720 --> 2:02:01.640 Oh yeah, gloves, gloves and gloves and both their houses 2:02:01.720 --> 2:02:06.000 and their cars. Oh, just terrible. We who are inclined 2:02:06.040 --> 2:02:08.840 to have a search warrant issued for them tend to 2:02:08.920 --> 2:02:14.680 be messy, I'd say, on a more than general rule, Yeah, 2:02:14.800 --> 2:02:17.120 very so. Did you enter a really plush place and 2:02:17.160 --> 2:02:19.800 they bring there and they bring their sex toys everywhere? 2:02:20.400 --> 2:02:24.800 That's why would you would you? When you're right through warrant, 2:02:24.920 --> 2:02:28.520 you know you're you're pretty wide open in the areas 2:02:28.600 --> 2:02:31.320 that you can search, And of course for a while, 2:02:31.400 --> 2:02:33.840 if you're you're specific I'm looking for an elk or 2:02:33.920 --> 2:02:36.720 I'm looking for these snakes. But you also are looking 2:02:36.800 --> 2:02:40.960 for records and photographs. And when you when you start 2:02:41.080 --> 2:02:45.240 looking through the photographs and and things of that nature, 2:02:45.400 --> 2:02:48.760 you see exactly what Paul is talking about, some of 2:02:48.840 --> 2:02:51.760 that kind of stuff, especially with a snaker. Well, then 2:02:51.800 --> 2:02:53.320 you probably wind up I want to get back to 2:02:53.320 --> 2:02:56.120 the story, but you probably wind up with like collateral damage, right, 2:02:56.160 --> 2:02:58.760 because you're in looking for snakes, but you can find 2:02:58.800 --> 2:03:01.560 certain crazy ship that all sudden becomes like its own thing. Right, 2:03:01.920 --> 2:03:04.520 So if it's in plain view right when you walk in, 2:03:04.680 --> 2:03:09.920 here's a big bowl of pot back, then anyway that was, 2:03:10.600 --> 2:03:13.960 you know, you could collect that with the with the 2:03:14.160 --> 2:03:17.760 search warrant. If I'm looking for records and I go 2:03:18.000 --> 2:03:23.720 through whatever his desk and find something, then if it's 2:03:24.040 --> 2:03:25.440 you know, let's just say it looks like a big 2:03:25.520 --> 2:03:29.680 baggy of dope, I'd stop and go have one of 2:03:29.760 --> 2:03:34.640 you guys for that. We even did the same thing. 2:03:34.720 --> 2:03:37.560 If you came across something in a place you could look, 2:03:38.400 --> 2:03:40.440 but it wasn't what you were looking for, we would 2:03:40.680 --> 2:03:46.440 stop and get a separate search warrant. So this guy 2:03:46.640 --> 2:03:50.160 you use that as your probable cause or whatever the hell. Yeah, 2:03:50.240 --> 2:03:53.640 Once we're in the door and it's written down in 2:03:53.760 --> 2:03:59.080 a reasonable place to look for it, that's open um. 2:03:59.440 --> 2:04:03.440 But Sky's caboon vipers were nowhere to be found. And 2:04:05.080 --> 2:04:10.080 there was a Tucson Police Department officer there with arms 2:04:10.120 --> 2:04:12.960 about the size of an oak tree. And I walked 2:04:13.080 --> 2:04:15.400 up to the the bad guy and I said, look, 2:04:15.440 --> 2:04:17.360 and I got a bunch of officers in here. We're 2:04:17.400 --> 2:04:20.760 looking for these snakes. We know they're here, and I 2:04:20.920 --> 2:04:23.160 need you to cooperate with us. Where the snakes? I'm 2:04:23.200 --> 2:04:26.520 p and Mr nice guy again, And the oak tree 2:04:26.560 --> 2:04:29.520 guy came up and grabbed him by the head and 2:04:30.160 --> 2:04:34.240 gave him a little encouragement, and he said, there behind 2:04:34.360 --> 2:04:38.720 the dresser in the bedroom, there's a hole in the wall. 2:04:40.160 --> 2:04:43.200 And sure enough, we moved the dresser and here was 2:04:43.200 --> 2:04:46.600 a little round piece of plywood and you could spin 2:04:46.720 --> 2:04:48.600 it to the side, and there's a hole in the 2:04:48.720 --> 2:04:51.320 wall of the drywall, and that's where he keeps them. 2:04:51.360 --> 2:04:54.640 That's the weirdest. And we had a herpetology. Do you 2:04:54.680 --> 2:04:56.520 think he threw them in there when someone banged on 2:04:56.600 --> 2:04:58.240 the door? Was that like their high that's where he 2:04:58.320 --> 2:05:00.840 had because there was droppings and all kinds of stuff 2:05:00.880 --> 2:05:02.680 in there. It seems like they could get yet night. 2:05:05.680 --> 2:05:09.480 But I, I literally said, okay, that's really well. Herptologists 2:05:10.520 --> 2:05:12.960 grabbed asked for a mirror, and he gets a mirror 2:05:13.000 --> 2:05:15.200 in a flashlight and he looks and low there they are. 2:05:15.320 --> 2:05:18.640 They're beautiful, and oh my goodness. And and I said, what, 2:05:18.720 --> 2:05:21.240 you're gonna have to get them out of there pretty 2:05:21.280 --> 2:05:24.640 darn quick, or I'm taking a sledgehammer knocking this wall 2:05:24.720 --> 2:05:28.400 down and we're gonna get rid of these things. Oh no, no, 2:05:28.600 --> 2:05:31.320 give me a chance. Long story short. He he asked 2:05:31.320 --> 2:05:34.640 for a couple of white mice and started dangling him 2:05:34.640 --> 2:05:37.760 by the tails in the hole, and all of a 2:05:37.840 --> 2:05:41.200 sudden he's and I was holding the mirror, and here 2:05:41.280 --> 2:05:45.120 they come. They're coming after those mice, and he had 2:05:45.160 --> 2:05:48.440 the tongs and just snagged them up. In that in 2:05:48.560 --> 2:05:50.560 the book, and there there's a picture of me walking 2:05:50.640 --> 2:05:54.480 out with a box with those two gaboon vipers. And 2:05:55.160 --> 2:05:57.480 I don't want to see. He was getting in trouble 2:05:57.600 --> 2:06:00.520 just for like illegal wildlife traffic. So they they were 2:06:00.840 --> 2:06:05.760 he was selling, uh, you know, commercialized trafficking of not 2:06:05.920 --> 2:06:10.040 only a dangerous species, but prohibitive wildlife, and it was 2:06:10.240 --> 2:06:13.440 it was really important they got these gaboons because they're 2:06:13.520 --> 2:06:17.320 from South Africa in a very similar climate and uh, 2:06:17.480 --> 2:06:19.720 you know, they could have been all over Arizona, who knows. 2:06:19.880 --> 2:06:25.000 But yeah, that was a creepy one. Uh. One more 2:06:25.040 --> 2:06:27.560 I got. I got a couple more, just general questions, 2:06:27.920 --> 2:06:32.200 um about how advice from you two hunters and anglers 2:06:32.360 --> 2:06:34.760 about how to interact with game words I think we 2:06:34.800 --> 2:06:36.400 should talk about. But I want to bring up one 2:06:36.440 --> 2:06:38.839 thing is you, Uh you talk a lot about experiences 2:06:38.880 --> 2:06:43.120 with like robot deer and robot turkeys and whatnot, which 2:06:43.120 --> 2:06:45.360 seems like a help of a lot of fun. You know, 2:06:45.560 --> 2:06:47.680 I told you earlier I was an avid duck hunter 2:06:48.760 --> 2:06:52.440 and sitting in a blind watching a decoy is better 2:06:52.520 --> 2:06:56.520 than shooting ducks. Uh. So we had turkeys, and we 2:06:56.640 --> 2:06:59.880 had elk, and we had deer, and it would we 2:07:00.120 --> 2:07:03.440 we always put them out in areas where it was 2:07:03.600 --> 2:07:06.520 just gonna be a no brainer that you had an 2:07:06.600 --> 2:07:11.360 intention to illegally take this credit and and so the 2:07:11.520 --> 2:07:16.360 unit was closed for example, two turkeys, and we put 2:07:16.440 --> 2:07:19.280 a turkey out and we had robotics in them. So 2:07:19.480 --> 2:07:22.720 you could move them with a little you know, gyro 2:07:23.720 --> 2:07:27.080 and truck comes by and comes to. Sounds like it 2:07:27.080 --> 2:07:28.880 would be like when you set these things up, it's 2:07:28.920 --> 2:07:33.240 like the first set of headlights, here comes one. Sure enough. 2:07:35.040 --> 2:07:39.000 It was pretty predictable. It was pretty predictable. And you know, 2:07:39.120 --> 2:07:42.160 and I think you the scary part of that was 2:07:42.800 --> 2:07:45.640 what we found, which actually we kind of got a 2:07:45.720 --> 2:07:49.160 policy out to all the wildlife agencies. That is what 2:07:49.240 --> 2:07:51.840 I want to ask about. The decoys were new, we 2:07:51.960 --> 2:07:54.720 were we were one of the first agencies to use them, 2:07:55.800 --> 2:07:57.880 and you know, there was we had to go through 2:07:57.880 --> 2:08:00.760 all the county attorneys and judges to to make sure 2:08:00.800 --> 2:08:03.440 it wasn't considered entrapment. Yeah, you know, let me because 2:08:03.440 --> 2:08:05.000 I feel like I didn't set this up problem just 2:08:05.040 --> 2:08:07.520 real quick. What we're talking about is they can take 2:08:09.320 --> 2:08:11.240 so let's say it's illegal to hunt deer at night. 2:08:11.760 --> 2:08:15.920 These guys will take a decoy and they'll actually make 2:08:15.960 --> 2:08:17.920 it robotics, so it's heddle moving stuff and you just 2:08:17.960 --> 2:08:20.400 set it out. So you just wait for some guy 2:08:20.440 --> 2:08:23.440 to come out and start shooting at the deer at night, 2:08:23.680 --> 2:08:26.080 or you go to an area that you can't hunt turkeys, 2:08:26.120 --> 2:08:27.880 but let's put a turkey decoy out and wait for 2:08:27.960 --> 2:08:30.400 some guy to drive down the road and try to 2:08:30.520 --> 2:08:34.080 kill the thing. And um, and then yeah, speak to 2:08:34.120 --> 2:08:36.120 the entrapment things. I always feel like it's a little 2:08:36.120 --> 2:08:38.200 bit like you're kind of like tempting people, right. So 2:08:39.440 --> 2:08:44.680 the courts and the county attorneys were were they encouraged 2:08:44.800 --> 2:08:47.800 us highly. Don't put a big rack on a mule deer. 2:08:48.200 --> 2:08:50.760 Don't make it a trophy, because now you're crossing that 2:08:51.000 --> 2:08:55.160 line of possibly in trapman. God, it's the biggest deer 2:08:55.160 --> 2:08:57.600 I've ever seen in my life. I had to shoot it. 2:08:58.080 --> 2:09:02.160 So we would use little forked oors um and and 2:09:02.320 --> 2:09:05.720 really the few cases that I actually went to trial 2:09:05.880 --> 2:09:09.400 on always came out there. We didn't put the gun 2:09:09.480 --> 2:09:13.000 in your hand. If I stood there along the road 2:09:13.080 --> 2:09:18.120 and said, look at that, it's a buck and a gun. 2:09:18.280 --> 2:09:23.720 Here's my gun, now, you know, clear in travement. But um, yeah. 2:09:23.760 --> 2:09:27.400 We were doing a night deer operation one evening and 2:09:28.480 --> 2:09:30.960 up in the White Mountains, and it was on you 2:09:31.120 --> 2:09:33.480 put these decoys on a turn of the road, so 2:09:33.600 --> 2:09:37.720 when the headlights came around in ninety degree turn, the 2:09:37.800 --> 2:09:41.120 illumination of the ice hit you have to place it 2:09:41.200 --> 2:09:44.080 so you had a good backdrop backdrop you didn't, and 2:09:44.200 --> 2:09:46.720 you do a lot of recon to make sure there 2:09:46.760 --> 2:09:50.080 were no camps around or ricochet bullets could hit a 2:09:50.160 --> 2:09:54.920 trailer or whatever, and picked the spot and then set 2:09:54.960 --> 2:09:57.720 the set the decoy up, and we'd have a blind 2:09:58.880 --> 2:10:01.960 right where you suspect to. The vehicle would stop on 2:10:02.040 --> 2:10:04.520 the other side of the road so you can hear him, 2:10:05.560 --> 2:10:07.920 and then we'd have a patrol rig ready to go 2:10:08.120 --> 2:10:10.840 to uniformed officers about a quarter of a mile away 2:10:11.080 --> 2:10:15.280 hidden ready to respond to the vehicle. So we're watching 2:10:15.320 --> 2:10:21.280 this truck parks and these guys get out and we 2:10:21.880 --> 2:10:24.680 in this case, there was the blind with the people 2:10:24.800 --> 2:10:28.720 observing him, and then me and this other officer were 2:10:28.760 --> 2:10:33.640 about a hundred yards away. Actually we were with that 2:10:34.200 --> 2:10:37.480 the vehicle to catch them, and but we're looking at 2:10:37.560 --> 2:10:40.440 him with binoculars and we can see this guy coming 2:10:40.520 --> 2:10:43.840 towards the decoy and it's dark, and then all of 2:10:43.880 --> 2:10:47.400 a sudden, I'm looking and my partner's looking, and I say, 2:10:47.960 --> 2:10:52.040 good God, Kim, he's aiming at us. And when the 2:10:52.200 --> 2:10:56.240 store case was all done and we apprehended them, we 2:10:56.360 --> 2:10:58.520 asked him and he said, yeah, there was a pair 2:10:58.560 --> 2:11:03.920 of deer eyes on the other side the road too. Reflec. Yeah, 2:11:04.920 --> 2:11:07.960 so we immediately got out of thing to all the 2:11:08.080 --> 2:11:13.360 agencies saying, no binoculars on nighttime tecoy operations. Yeah, you 2:11:13.360 --> 2:11:16.160 can see that being a little dicey. Yeah, tell about 2:11:16.200 --> 2:11:19.040 the guy you had, The guy you had that was 2:11:19.120 --> 2:11:22.800 approaching the turkey when the turkey's head flew off. So 2:11:23.000 --> 2:11:27.520 that was funny that the guy actually responded when we 2:11:27.640 --> 2:11:31.320 stopped him. We were whoever was running the decoy was 2:11:31.360 --> 2:11:34.400 a little bit vigorous and knocked the head off the decoy, 2:11:35.280 --> 2:11:38.760 and the guy stopped and he was in pursuit of it, 2:11:39.720 --> 2:11:43.160 and we started approaching him. Hey, hold game and fish. 2:11:43.280 --> 2:11:47.200 And the guy look, hey, Sam, is that you said? Yeah, 2:11:47.360 --> 2:11:49.200 and you don't in a small town, I knew most 2:11:49.240 --> 2:11:52.560 of the people. What do you what do you do? Oh? 2:11:52.680 --> 2:11:56.440 I knew it was a decoy and was, well, you 2:11:56.600 --> 2:12:00.400 got a shotgun in your hand, Oh, it's not loaded. 2:12:00.440 --> 2:12:03.280 And he leans down. He's got leading right on his toe, 2:12:04.040 --> 2:12:07.720 and I said, well, let's just make sure unlow peppoo 2:12:08.320 --> 2:12:12.920 that goes off gravel shoots everywhere. And so that and 2:12:13.040 --> 2:12:17.040 the guy was a hunter safety. It was kind of bad. 2:12:19.040 --> 2:12:25.240 So you rent into a ball So, uh, what like, 2:12:25.680 --> 2:12:30.440 based on all your experience doing that, UM, give us 2:12:30.520 --> 2:12:35.040 tips hunters and anglers, tips for how to how to 2:12:35.240 --> 2:12:39.840 engage with uh, how to engage with wardens in a 2:12:39.920 --> 2:12:46.000 way that just makes d you know, decreases tension like whatever. 2:12:46.200 --> 2:12:48.640 Like if you had to give people some advice you 2:12:48.680 --> 2:12:51.200 get your license checked. Here's a couple of pieces of advice. 2:12:52.040 --> 2:12:57.320 Good question. Uh. Number one, I would just say, know 2:12:57.840 --> 2:13:00.640 that that officer put on underwear of the morning the 2:13:00.720 --> 2:13:04.400 same morning as you did. Here's a human being and 2:13:04.480 --> 2:13:07.200 they're out doing a job, and it's okay to be 2:13:07.280 --> 2:13:09.600 a little nervous because everyone is. Even if I get 2:13:09.680 --> 2:13:13.320 pulled over on on the streets and I'm looking for 2:13:13.440 --> 2:13:17.520 my registration or something, I'm fidgety, So it's okay. But 2:13:17.760 --> 2:13:21.240 just recognize that they're out there, um, and they're they're 2:13:21.320 --> 2:13:24.240 human being just like you. So it's okay to be nervous, 2:13:24.760 --> 2:13:26.960 to be you don't take nervousness as a sign that 2:13:28.080 --> 2:13:30.280 like you, don't take nervousness as a sign that they 2:13:30.360 --> 2:13:32.920 must be guilty. I almost looking at the opposite of 2:13:33.040 --> 2:13:36.960 your two cocky something's wrong you know or or but 2:13:36.960 --> 2:13:39.000 a lot of people are pol I know you've seen 2:13:39.080 --> 2:13:42.720 it where they're they're they're calm with you. They've been 2:13:42.800 --> 2:13:46.160 through at a time or two, and this is nothing 2:13:46.240 --> 2:13:48.640 new to him, where you know, all of a sudden, 2:13:48.800 --> 2:13:50.480 I don't know, how have you ever been checked by 2:13:50.480 --> 2:13:53.880 a game officer? Right? Not in a long time? But yeah, yeah, 2:13:53.920 --> 2:13:56.560 were you nervous? Uh? Yeah? I was in my twenties, 2:13:56.760 --> 2:13:59.040 so it was quite nervous, even though I hadn't done 2:13:59.040 --> 2:14:01.200 anything wrong. I mean at that age, you like when 2:14:01.240 --> 2:14:03.280 you see a coffee, like turn the radio down, right, 2:14:03.440 --> 2:14:09.160 Like you're just generally nervous, right, but you know, you 2:14:09.400 --> 2:14:14.160 you try to calm your nervousness. I'd say they're human beings. Um, 2:14:14.960 --> 2:14:19.520 if you're not doing anything wrong, there's nothing to worry about. 2:14:20.200 --> 2:14:21.800 How how do you feel about the guy that when 2:14:21.840 --> 2:14:24.560 you pull up, he's already got his license out. Well, 2:14:24.640 --> 2:14:27.760 he's either been through the routine a couple of times. Uh. 2:14:27.920 --> 2:14:30.880 For example, if you check a common lake and you 2:14:30.960 --> 2:14:33.640 see a bunch of fishermen that you park and start 2:14:33.720 --> 2:14:37.080 walking down there, there were people that literally would have 2:14:37.200 --> 2:14:39.000 their license and you don't take that as a sign 2:14:39.040 --> 2:14:41.600 of something or not. You're good, you're good. I didn't 2:14:41.600 --> 2:14:44.480 even look with binoculars. We pull up on watercraft and 2:14:44.600 --> 2:14:47.000 come to the shore and just look at alder license 2:14:47.120 --> 2:14:51.120 up and you're good. But you saw me approaching, and 2:14:51.160 --> 2:14:53.080 all of a sudden your chair folded up and you 2:14:53.160 --> 2:14:57.280 started going up the hill. That's the way he matches. 2:14:57.360 --> 2:15:00.520 This is our trick. He talks about coming onto a lake. 2:15:00.600 --> 2:15:03.280 He's always real curious and who has to get to 2:15:03.360 --> 2:15:07.680 the rod very quickly? But we don't always we don't 2:15:07.680 --> 2:15:11.000 always take a don uniformed warden. But if there's a 2:15:11.080 --> 2:15:14.520 row of a hundred fishermen, non uniformed officer would go 2:15:14.640 --> 2:15:17.360 down on the other end, just a lot, just ship there, 2:15:17.520 --> 2:15:19.480 just to see who really needs attend to the rod. 2:15:19.720 --> 2:15:22.160 And now I come out and I make a big display. 2:15:22.240 --> 2:15:24.880 I pulled right up onto the boat ramp. Get out, 2:15:25.120 --> 2:15:29.760 start walking. Here's three or four you gotta go. I 2:15:29.880 --> 2:15:35.200 just called. Uh So, the funny thing about getting your 2:15:35.240 --> 2:15:37.280 license out is you want to get it out. But 2:15:37.360 --> 2:15:39.240 then I always think that the war is gonna be 2:15:39.240 --> 2:15:43.000 like why do you think I need to? Like like 2:15:43.080 --> 2:15:44.680 it's a little presumptuous, Like how do you know that's 2:15:44.680 --> 2:15:46.520 what I want how do you know? So then you 2:15:46.680 --> 2:15:49.760 stand there like should I offer it? Do you know 2:15:49.760 --> 2:15:53.640 what I mean? It's just like it's also awkward man. Well, 2:15:53.720 --> 2:15:54.920 and if a lot of it has to do with 2:15:55.000 --> 2:15:59.040 the communication of the officer, right, you always immediately it 2:15:59.160 --> 2:16:01.640 come down and whole you're gonna say, how's it going today? 2:16:02.400 --> 2:16:04.600 Nice day out here? In it? You want to hear 2:16:04.640 --> 2:16:07.360 that from a person, Yeah, talk to him a little bit. 2:16:07.440 --> 2:16:09.800 If you walk up and it's an immediate you know, 2:16:10.040 --> 2:16:11.880 I need to see your license what we're saying. You'll 2:16:11.920 --> 2:16:14.240 ask them how it's going, sturn out, talk to him 2:16:14.240 --> 2:16:16.520 a little bit and how's it going to see you 2:16:16.600 --> 2:16:19.360 got a couple of fish there? Does a warden want 2:16:19.720 --> 2:16:25.040 the hunter angler to be chatty? At times? You're pretty 2:16:25.120 --> 2:16:27.920 lonely out there, so it doesn't you know, So if 2:16:27.920 --> 2:16:30.240 you're like, hey, how's it going, that doesn't it doesn't 2:16:30.240 --> 2:16:33.080 set off a red flag. No, I mean you can 2:16:33.160 --> 2:16:37.000 detect if there's something not quite making sense here. This 2:16:37.120 --> 2:16:40.480 is a little false. Yeah, you could feel it. What 2:16:40.680 --> 2:16:44.280 was your attitude towards self reporting? We did you were you? 2:16:44.560 --> 2:16:46.680 Did you actually? Were you actually able to be lenient 2:16:46.720 --> 2:16:50.200 to people that would self report absolutely, so what what 2:16:50.760 --> 2:16:53.560 And And again even with that note, you know, if 2:16:53.680 --> 2:16:56.800 if you make a mistake out there, uh, you know, 2:16:56.879 --> 2:17:00.200 turn yourself in. It's it's the way to go there. 2:17:00.440 --> 2:17:02.760 There might be a couple of horror stories out there 2:17:02.840 --> 2:17:07.800 where uh you wish you hadn't. But if if the 2:17:07.959 --> 2:17:11.840 officer finds out some other way and that you shot 2:17:11.920 --> 2:17:15.039 the wrong deer or you you did whatever you did, 2:17:15.800 --> 2:17:17.440 and then things are going to go a little harder. 2:17:18.200 --> 2:17:21.440 We had the luxury at least to work with our 2:17:21.520 --> 2:17:25.320 county attorneys and in many cases we just had jps 2:17:25.959 --> 2:17:28.880 that we could talk with justice to the peace was 2:17:29.000 --> 2:17:31.600 the judge, and we could go in and see the 2:17:31.680 --> 2:17:33.360 judge and go I want you to know this was 2:17:33.400 --> 2:17:38.320 an accident, um, and the person called me, I showed up, 2:17:38.879 --> 2:17:43.440 We got the animal salvaged and and you know donated. Um. 2:17:44.320 --> 2:17:46.520 So I just want you to know that I didn't. 2:17:46.680 --> 2:17:48.680 You know a lot of times they'd ask you, well, 2:17:48.720 --> 2:17:49.920 what do you want to do? What do you think 2:17:50.520 --> 2:17:53.120 the right? Yeah, that's what I was gonna say, even 2:17:53.160 --> 2:17:55.520 on my side over there, that the same way if 2:17:55.600 --> 2:17:59.040 somebody self reports something or have an accident, was cooperative 2:17:59.080 --> 2:18:01.680 and just want to do the right thing. Even if 2:18:01.720 --> 2:18:05.120 a ticket got written, you had those conversations with the 2:18:05.200 --> 2:18:08.960 prosecutors and the judges and say, this is not the 2:18:09.040 --> 2:18:12.680 guy that needs to, you know, have the book thrown 2:18:12.720 --> 2:18:14.400 at him. We need to And a lot of times 2:18:14.440 --> 2:18:18.400 they just get you know, dismissed or or you know, 2:18:18.480 --> 2:18:20.920 if you're don't get in trouble for six more months, 2:18:21.000 --> 2:18:24.960 it'll go away. Um. So yeah, by far, the best 2:18:25.000 --> 2:18:28.959 way to deal with it was just to be upfront 2:18:28.959 --> 2:18:32.960 about it. Sam. You're telling their story where this has 2:18:33.000 --> 2:18:35.360 a little to do with like like discretion or or 2:18:36.120 --> 2:18:39.600 you know, individual by interview, I was not thinking the 2:18:39.680 --> 2:18:42.640 right way to put it. But um, where you're able 2:18:42.680 --> 2:18:45.480 to take like a level of subjectivity to what's going on, 2:18:45.640 --> 2:18:47.879 and you talk about going into uh I think it's 2:18:47.879 --> 2:18:52.040 an antelope poaching incident. We're going into a home and 2:18:52.640 --> 2:18:59.160 extreme poverty, no food already ate the thing like that. 2:19:00.120 --> 2:19:03.880 You ended up approaching that a little bit differently. Yeah, 2:19:04.360 --> 2:19:08.080 you know. It's it's funny because um, as we said, 2:19:08.080 --> 2:19:11.560 a lot of times, when you conduct a search warrant, 2:19:11.680 --> 2:19:16.160 the places are less than let's just say, the nicest 2:19:16.160 --> 2:19:20.200 places you've ever seen. And yet I didn't have that 2:19:20.440 --> 2:19:23.199 kind of feeling when I was issuing a search warrant 2:19:24.160 --> 2:19:27.720 um in the in the case you're referring to, it 2:19:27.879 --> 2:19:33.080 was an antelope that was allegedly poached. And when we 2:19:33.200 --> 2:19:36.840 got to the location, I mean, these people were hurting, 2:19:37.760 --> 2:19:39.880 said no running water, and they were cleaning a jack 2:19:40.000 --> 2:19:42.680 rabbit the sink. There were there were flies all over 2:19:42.760 --> 2:19:45.360 the kitchen and about four jack rabbits in the sink 2:19:46.520 --> 2:19:51.000 and uh no running water, kids outside playing in dirt. 2:19:52.640 --> 2:19:56.560 The meat that we found was wrapped in more of 2:19:56.640 --> 2:20:01.000 an ice box. It wasn't you know, kept fresh. So 2:20:01.160 --> 2:20:05.920 whatever they killed, they're gonna eat probably that week. So 2:20:06.040 --> 2:20:08.160 you gotta make a call to yourself. Am I getting 2:20:08.200 --> 2:20:10.840 out of am I writing a ticket? You know? Or 2:20:10.959 --> 2:20:12.840 what are we gonna do here? And it was also 2:20:12.879 --> 2:20:14.800 a young kid. I remember you just telling the mom 2:20:14.879 --> 2:20:17.080 like you gotta talk to your boy. I don't want 2:20:17.080 --> 2:20:19.440 to come back out here. I don't want to you know, 2:20:19.560 --> 2:20:23.760 we're we're leaving, but I'm gonna put you in touch. 2:20:23.840 --> 2:20:25.800 There's a lot of programs out there that can help 2:20:25.879 --> 2:20:30.120 you people, and programs that can give you food. And 2:20:30.480 --> 2:20:34.040 you know, the wildlife resource out here is sparse, and 2:20:34.240 --> 2:20:37.160 you can't do what you're doing, so I don't want 2:20:37.200 --> 2:20:39.720 to come back. You know that we do. We understand 2:20:39.800 --> 2:20:42.400 each other. Are we good? And it's kind of it 2:20:42.440 --> 2:20:44.840 was a touching story, man, Oh I was that was? Yeah, 2:20:44.959 --> 2:20:47.360 you went home that night and hunt your kid. Yeah, 2:20:49.120 --> 2:20:52.119 that's good man. So tell people how to tell people 2:20:52.160 --> 2:20:55.520 how to find the book. Well, it's funny because when 2:20:55.560 --> 2:20:59.880 I did the bud Puddle story for the Campfire Tales, 2:21:00.520 --> 2:21:05.240 Savannah told me to give her my Instagram. I said, 2:21:05.280 --> 2:21:08.800 I bought my wife an insta pot. I don't know 2:21:08.879 --> 2:21:12.960 what an Instagram is, so my daughter set up an 2:21:13.040 --> 2:21:18.039 Instagram account. Is it properly? It says at Sam Lowry 2:21:19.320 --> 2:21:21.920 and on there is a link, so you wind up 2:21:21.920 --> 2:21:24.840 getting at Sam Lawry. Someone else didn't have that. No, 2:21:25.080 --> 2:21:28.880 I got it. That's cool. Yeah, I think have you 2:21:28.920 --> 2:21:32.160 ever checked it out? Yeah, he'll check for us Sam 2:21:32.280 --> 2:21:37.480 Laury and it s a M L A W R 2:21:37.760 --> 2:21:41.760 Y So that's on there. Uh and and and she 2:21:41.959 --> 2:21:44.480 told me to say you can find a link on 2:21:44.560 --> 2:21:48.560 there to buy it. Uh. These proceeds from anything I 2:21:48.680 --> 2:21:51.120 make on this this go to my kids because she 2:21:51.320 --> 2:21:54.800 did the pencil drawings in it, and my daughter put 2:21:54.840 --> 2:21:59.040 it together through that account those third project. Now, yeah, 2:21:59.200 --> 2:22:01.840 my stories are out there and I hope people enjoy 2:22:01.920 --> 2:22:03.480 it and if they want to get it for a 2:22:04.000 --> 2:22:06.560 stocking stuffer, go for it. Yeah, it's a lot of fun. 2:22:06.680 --> 2:22:10.000 So again the title Stories of the Past an Arizona 2:22:10.080 --> 2:22:14.440 Game Ranger Remembering the Outlaws by Sam Laurie and of 2:22:14.520 --> 2:22:21.560 course also Paul Lewis support. Paul go to f HF Yeah, 2:22:23.520 --> 2:22:28.160 fish on fight, Yeah, American made accessories, all kinds of 2:22:28.240 --> 2:22:31.280 cool ship. More stuff coming out any else. Y're on, 2:22:31.400 --> 2:22:34.200 You're good, feeling good. I'm good? Thank you? All right, 2:22:34.360 --> 2:22:35.760 everybody take care. Thank you,