WEBVTT - SYSK’s Fall True Crime Playlist: The Tylenol Murders, Part II 0:00:01.440 --> 0:00:03.680 In part two of our episode on the nineteen eighty 0:00:03.680 --> 0:00:06.880 two Chicago Thailand All Murders, we look at the suspects 0:00:06.880 --> 0:00:09.160 in the case and really zero in on one of them, 0:00:09.560 --> 0:00:11.840 but to this day it's not clear if they were 0:00:11.880 --> 0:00:14.680 behind it, and although there was a lot of weird 0:00:14.680 --> 0:00:19.000 evidence around him, it's all circumstantial. I hope you enjoy 0:00:19.079 --> 0:00:22.239 finishing up on the Thailand All Murders. 0:00:23.680 --> 0:00:26.800 Welcome to Steff. You should know, a production of Iheartradios 0:00:26.840 --> 0:00:33.640 How Stuff Works. 0:00:33.680 --> 0:00:36.280 Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's 0:00:36.360 --> 0:00:39.320 Charles w Chuck Bryant, There's guest producer Josh over there. 0:00:39.760 --> 0:00:42.960 Guess enough with the pleasantries. Let's get back to. 0:00:42.840 --> 0:00:46.960 It Chuck Thailand All Murders, Part two, Park, if you 0:00:47.040 --> 0:00:50.720 did not listen to the first part. In nineteen eighty two, 0:00:50.760 --> 0:00:58.080 seven people were murdered by ingesting Thailand, all tainted with cyanide, 0:00:58.280 --> 0:01:00.360 all on the same day, all on the same day. 0:01:00.520 --> 0:01:03.640 America and much of the world is super freaked out. 0:01:04.480 --> 0:01:08.520 Johnson and Johnson is the manufacturer, and part one of 0:01:08.560 --> 0:01:12.320 part two has a deal with Johnson and Johnson and 0:01:12.360 --> 0:01:15.720 how they handled this in a public relations sort of way. 0:01:16.920 --> 0:01:20.399 Because there were and are a huge company. Like you 0:01:20.440 --> 0:01:23.680 said in the episode one, they held thirty seven percent 0:01:23.720 --> 0:01:26.800 of the market share, which was many hundreds of millions 0:01:26.800 --> 0:01:29.480 of dollars of tile and all that they're selling every year. 0:01:29.560 --> 0:01:31.920 And that's in nineteen eighty two dollars. 0:01:31.560 --> 0:01:35.360 Right, which is like gazillions now. So it was a 0:01:35.440 --> 0:01:37.960 very big deal for that company. And the way they 0:01:38.000 --> 0:01:42.600 handled it is taught in colleges and PR classes all 0:01:42.640 --> 0:01:46.959 over the world as exactly how to handle a big 0:01:47.319 --> 0:01:49.160 public relations crisis. 0:01:48.760 --> 0:01:52.960 Like this, Like it's literally called a textbook example of 0:01:53.000 --> 0:01:53.680 how it's done. 0:01:53.800 --> 0:01:57.880 Yeah, they did a good job because as you remember 0:01:57.880 --> 0:02:01.600 from the last episode, they found out pretty sure early 0:02:01.680 --> 0:02:06.400 on that this had nothing to do with Johnson and Johnson, right, Like, 0:02:06.480 --> 0:02:08.600 it wasn't in their factory, it wasn't in their supply chain. 0:02:08.600 --> 0:02:12.440 That it happened almost certainly, and that it probably happened 0:02:12.760 --> 0:02:15.440 by some crazed person taking them out of the store 0:02:15.480 --> 0:02:17.640 or tainting them maybe in the store in the parking lot, 0:02:17.960 --> 0:02:20.600 then putting them back on the shelf. But Johnson Johnson 0:02:20.639 --> 0:02:22.840 can't come out on the news and say hey what 0:02:22.960 --> 0:02:23.720 and us. 0:02:23.919 --> 0:02:26.840 Right well at first though, and this gets overlooked and 0:02:26.919 --> 0:02:30.920 left out of the college business courses and the PR courses. 0:02:31.360 --> 0:02:34.400 At first, Johnson and Johnson was not in favor of 0:02:34.440 --> 0:02:36.000 a massive recall. 0:02:35.760 --> 0:02:38.640 Sure, because that looks well, it looks good in one 0:02:38.639 --> 0:02:39.720 way but bad in another. 0:02:39.840 --> 0:02:44.359 And they actually didn't recall anything until Mayor Jane Byrne 0:02:44.720 --> 0:02:48.600 held her press conference on Friday calling for a recall 0:02:48.800 --> 0:02:52.280 of the Thailand all in Chicago, and Johnson and Johnson 0:02:52.480 --> 0:02:56.600 did a little face palm. Yes, we're recalling all of 0:02:56.639 --> 0:02:58.040 the Thailand all in Chicago. 0:02:58.280 --> 0:02:59.440 Yes, what she said. 0:02:59.800 --> 0:03:05.239 Right. So by Friday, the thirty first of September, is 0:03:05.280 --> 0:03:07.560 there thirty one in September? Was this October first? 0:03:08.840 --> 0:03:09.600 I have no idea. 0:03:09.760 --> 0:03:14.200 I think it was October first, anyway. By the Friday, 0:03:14.440 --> 0:03:17.680 two days after the death yeah, the deaths, Johnson and 0:03:17.720 --> 0:03:20.079 Johnson recalled all of the tail in all in Chicago. 0:03:20.320 --> 0:03:22.600 And that should have been enough to them, that was enough. 0:03:23.120 --> 0:03:28.359 But this PR crisis was so massive and spread so fast, 0:03:28.400 --> 0:03:31.440 and like we said earlier in Part one, became global 0:03:31.560 --> 0:03:35.560 almost overnight. It was not enough. Yeah, And so Johnson 0:03:35.600 --> 0:03:40.000 and Johnson, within a week of the deaths recalled every 0:03:40.560 --> 0:03:44.720 bottle of extra strength TIL and all in the United States, 0:03:45.080 --> 0:03:47.440 which is worth about one hundred million dollars at the time, 0:03:47.800 --> 0:03:50.200 took it back to their factories and destroyed it. 0:03:50.760 --> 0:03:57.440 So they say, right, yeah, both Johnson and Johnson, right. 0:03:57.600 --> 0:04:00.560 I wonder if one of them was like, know about this. 0:04:01.120 --> 0:04:03.600 One of them said, Okay, I'll take all the states 0:04:03.600 --> 0:04:06.600 west of the Mississippi, North Dakota, South Dakota, and Somewayoming 0:04:07.120 --> 0:04:09.920 and then you can take all the other states. That's 0:04:09.960 --> 0:04:10.960 a part one, Joe. 0:04:11.520 --> 0:04:16.400 They even got an award the Public Relations Society of America, 0:04:16.440 --> 0:04:19.200 which is a real thing, I believe it or not. 0:04:19.760 --> 0:04:22.880 They awarded them their Silver Anvil Award for how they 0:04:22.880 --> 0:04:23.360 handle the. 0:04:23.320 --> 0:04:25.760 Crisis the tailan All poisoning, that's right. 0:04:26.160 --> 0:04:30.960 And high grade foods. Remember we talked about the bad 0:04:30.960 --> 0:04:36.240 Wieners in the first episode. The ballpark Frank Zip supposedly 0:04:36.240 --> 0:04:39.440 had razor blades but did not. That still created a 0:04:39.440 --> 0:04:41.919 public relations crisis for them, even though they were just 0:04:42.000 --> 0:04:46.760 these little jerks in Detroit, And they won the Golden Anvil, 0:04:47.520 --> 0:04:48.800 which is one higher than. 0:04:48.680 --> 0:04:52.560 Silver, because of how they handled the pr crisis brought 0:04:52.600 --> 0:04:55.760 about by the copycats of the actual tailan All. 0:04:55.640 --> 0:04:58.640 Crisis, which was in fact really brought about by two 0:04:58.800 --> 0:05:01.799 jerk kids in Detroit, right, really, not even. 0:05:01.640 --> 0:05:04.320 Copycats, not the tile in all crisis. I wonder where 0:05:04.320 --> 0:05:07.760 those kids are today, probably in the Senate. 0:05:08.160 --> 0:05:09.640 I bet one of them was the guy who did 0:05:09.680 --> 0:05:12.200 our our lighting at our Detroit show. 0:05:13.120 --> 0:05:15.320 It was a smoke I'll go some more smoke. 0:05:16.200 --> 0:05:18.160 Yeah, guys, we did a show in Detroit a few 0:05:18.200 --> 0:05:21.400 years ago and very famously we still use that as 0:05:21.440 --> 0:05:25.520 the standard bearer for a bad crew bad. We had 0:05:25.560 --> 0:05:29.760 a guy that looked like a former roadie for Uriah 0:05:29.760 --> 0:05:33.920 Heap that was running like a light show basically during 0:05:33.960 --> 0:05:36.040 the middle of our podcast, and like smoke came out. 0:05:36.080 --> 0:05:38.160 We were like, we had to stop the show, almost 0:05:38.480 --> 0:05:39.400 like dude, what are you doing? 0:05:39.560 --> 0:05:43.160 Yeah, well, the lighting was so bad that your highlighter 0:05:43.200 --> 0:05:45.520 had turned like brown and you could no longer see 0:05:45.560 --> 0:05:48.159 the words. And you asked him, we had to stop 0:05:48.240 --> 0:05:50.400 the show, and you had to ask him to use 0:05:50.440 --> 0:05:51.560 a different colored light. 0:05:51.760 --> 0:05:52.440 Uh huh. 0:05:52.480 --> 0:05:54.719 And his response, because you and me he was hanging 0:05:54.720 --> 0:05:56.640 out and our friend Chris Bowman was hanging out in 0:05:56.720 --> 0:05:59.800 the sound with the guy. His response, according to them, 0:06:00.360 --> 0:06:03.440 they want smoke, I'll give them some more smoke and 0:06:03.480 --> 0:06:04.920 we got some more smoke. 0:06:05.080 --> 0:06:06.040 Like a smoke machine. 0:06:06.080 --> 0:06:06.640 Yeah. 0:06:06.720 --> 0:06:08.800 Man, And people ask us why we haven't been back 0:06:08.839 --> 0:06:09.359 to Detroit. 0:06:09.800 --> 0:06:11.560 That's a big reason. It's a big reason, not the 0:06:11.600 --> 0:06:12.159 only reason. 0:06:12.800 --> 0:06:12.960 Uh. 0:06:14.680 --> 0:06:18.040 Okay. So they won the Golden Anvil for the Wiener 0:06:18.520 --> 0:06:24.680 pr moves McNeil Consumer Products, which is a subsidiary of 0:06:24.800 --> 0:06:25.760 Johnson and Johnson. 0:06:25.880 --> 0:06:27.120 They actually make Til it All. 0:06:27.200 --> 0:06:29.840 Yeah, they make the pills again. The way this all 0:06:29.839 --> 0:06:34.360 this supply chain works is really convoluted, and like you said, 0:06:34.400 --> 0:06:36.640 they didn't want to recall Johnson Johnson everything at first. 0:06:36.640 --> 0:06:38.400 They want to kind of take it a little slower. 0:06:38.400 --> 0:06:41.719 I guess, well, sure, because they'd found out the drugs 0:06:41.760 --> 0:06:44.279 are actually fine, right thanks to Pinky McFarland. 0:06:44.400 --> 0:06:47.120 This is one hundred million dollars worth of stock that 0:06:47.240 --> 0:06:50.320 they were kind of feeling the pressure to recall. That's right. 0:06:50.400 --> 0:06:53.040 So they were kind of reluctant at first, especially if 0:06:53.040 --> 0:06:55.680 they were convinced that there was nothing wrong with the 0:06:55.680 --> 0:06:56.320 rest of them. 0:06:56.720 --> 0:06:59.280 They had no choice, no, that was the only way 0:06:59.320 --> 0:07:01.800 to do it was to lose a lot of money 0:07:03.000 --> 0:07:05.200 in favor of future gains. 0:07:05.680 --> 0:07:08.040 Yeah. But even at the time, a lot of people 0:07:08.120 --> 0:07:10.000 were like, this is it for tail and All. Sure, 0:07:10.200 --> 0:07:12.640 the public has lost faith in Thailand All. So when 0:07:12.640 --> 0:07:17.080 Thailandol recalled thirty one million, fifty count bottles of Extra 0:07:17.120 --> 0:07:19.720 Strength tilent All and destroyed it all, there was a 0:07:19.840 --> 0:07:23.120 chance that not only were they losing one hundred million dollars, 0:07:23.240 --> 0:07:25.560 but that they were losing one hundred million dollars of 0:07:25.600 --> 0:07:29.320 a brand that had already lost the public trust and 0:07:29.320 --> 0:07:33.280 would never regain it. So which wasn't true. But yeah, no, 0:07:33.480 --> 0:07:35.480 they didn't necessarily know that at the time. It was 0:07:35.520 --> 0:07:39.040 still up in the air. So they it was basically 0:07:39.120 --> 0:07:43.960 thirty one million sacrificial lambs that were killed to show 0:07:44.000 --> 0:07:47.000 the public this taint of talent All has gone forever. 0:07:47.240 --> 0:07:47.720 That's right. 0:07:47.840 --> 0:07:50.800 Your chances of dying from taking Extra Strength tilent All 0:07:50.840 --> 0:07:54.440 are now gone. You can go back to taking Thailand All. Now. 0:07:54.640 --> 0:07:57.840 That was one thing that was a big gesture, which 0:07:57.920 --> 0:08:00.240 is what it amounted to. It was a gesture half 0:08:00.240 --> 0:08:02.600 of Johnson and Johnson. But they did other stuff too. 0:08:02.640 --> 0:08:05.400 They started to do things right out of their reluctance. 0:08:05.480 --> 0:08:08.600 Once they finally said there, we have to just go 0:08:08.680 --> 0:08:11.840 with this to save face and to win back public trust, 0:08:12.240 --> 0:08:14.960 they started to do things right, like including like setting 0:08:15.040 --> 0:08:17.720 up a hotline sure putting out one hundred thousand dollars 0:08:17.720 --> 0:08:19.520 reward for information. 0:08:19.400 --> 0:08:22.040 Jump change, considering how much they had lost already. 0:08:22.120 --> 0:08:23.560 It's nineteen eighty two dollars. 0:08:23.640 --> 0:08:28.240 Well still jump change it is, yeah, and that remains unclaimed. 0:08:28.120 --> 0:08:32.840 It does they But because of all of this, Johnson 0:08:32.880 --> 0:08:35.720 and Johnson managed to regain the public trust and actually 0:08:37.040 --> 0:08:41.240 managed to position itself as a victim in all of this, Like, yes, 0:08:41.240 --> 0:08:44.320 there were these which they were, I mean seven murder victims. Yeah, 0:08:44.360 --> 0:08:46.440 and Johnson and Johnson. I don't think I ever tried to 0:08:46.480 --> 0:08:49.240 push them out of the spotlight. But they also managed 0:08:49.280 --> 0:08:52.640 to portray themselves as the victim of a mad poisoner 0:08:52.720 --> 0:08:54.720 who may or may not had something out for them. 0:08:55.000 --> 0:08:57.319 But either way, their brand was taking a huge hit 0:08:57.400 --> 0:08:59.640 because of this, and they were a victim and were 0:08:59.679 --> 0:09:03.679 able to generate public sympathy. Is part of the road 0:09:03.840 --> 0:09:06.400 to regaining the public trust. 0:09:06.280 --> 0:09:09.200 Right, which is why it's taught in PR classes. So 0:09:10.240 --> 0:09:12.200 we'll take you back to nineteen eighty two if you're 0:09:12.720 --> 0:09:15.280 if you weren't around then or old enough to be 0:09:15.320 --> 0:09:18.680 taking OTC pills and pain relievers. 0:09:18.760 --> 0:09:21.400 OTC is over the counter by the way. That's right, Okay, 0:09:21.600 --> 0:09:25.280 you down with OTC. Yeah, you know me so dumb. 0:09:26.720 --> 0:09:28.319 I love that you played along, though, I appreciate that 0:09:29.080 --> 0:09:30.360 you could have made me feel stupid. 0:09:30.400 --> 0:09:32.960 We've been partners for eleven years almost now. 0:09:34.280 --> 0:09:39.280 Yeah, that'd be when next month or this month? Yeah right, yeah, unbelievable. 0:09:39.679 --> 0:09:43.160 So uh I'm believable, Not not in that way. Okay. 0:09:44.200 --> 0:09:46.000 So here's how it used to happen. If you wanted 0:09:46.040 --> 0:09:48.080 to take a pill, like a tile and all, you 0:09:48.120 --> 0:09:52.640 would get your bottle, you would pop it open with 0:09:52.679 --> 0:09:53.160 your thumb. 0:09:53.360 --> 0:09:55.520 Well first, first it came in a little box. 0:09:55.440 --> 0:09:58.720 Sure, but the box wasn't even glued shut. No, you 0:09:58.720 --> 0:10:01.079 would pop it open with your finger. You would take 0:10:01.120 --> 0:10:03.679 out the cotton in there, and you would take your pill. 0:10:03.840 --> 0:10:06.320 It was that easy. There was no tamper proofing. No, 0:10:06.559 --> 0:10:09.959 there was no The cotton was completely superfluous at this time. 0:10:10.360 --> 0:10:14.560 Yeah. Cotton originally was introduced to keep bare aspirin like 0:10:14.600 --> 0:10:18.160 the hard tablets, yeah, from getting crushed in transport. 0:10:18.360 --> 0:10:18.920 Yeah. 0:10:18.960 --> 0:10:22.440 And since they started using capsules and other stuff and 0:10:22.559 --> 0:10:25.480 figured out how to strengthen tablets, there was no reason 0:10:25.520 --> 0:10:28.840 for the cotton any longer. But because consumers expected it. 0:10:28.920 --> 0:10:29.240 I know. 0:10:29.480 --> 0:10:32.640 Still today you'll find cotton in your in your pills. 0:10:32.760 --> 0:10:35.319 There's no reason for it to be there except because 0:10:35.600 --> 0:10:37.640 the companies know that you want it to be there. 0:10:37.720 --> 0:10:41.000 You would be weirded out if there wasn't cotton in 0:10:41.040 --> 0:10:41.480 your pills. 0:10:41.559 --> 0:10:43.520 Imagine the cotton lobby had something to do with that too. 0:10:43.679 --> 0:10:45.880 Well, I'll bet they're not. They're not complaining, you know, 0:10:47.000 --> 0:10:48.880 so big cotton. 0:10:48.840 --> 0:10:49.080 They. 0:10:50.520 --> 0:10:54.320 New, fancy otc pill should have Micromo doll in there, right. 0:10:54.840 --> 0:10:57.200 It just comes with a pair of Meuni stuffed into 0:10:57.240 --> 0:11:01.440 your pill bottle like these have been warm. 0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:04.679 And so this was a time. It was a very 0:11:04.679 --> 0:11:08.040 innocent time previous to this, where you could like and 0:11:08.080 --> 0:11:10.400 you pointed this out. I remember seeing this in grocery stores, 0:11:10.520 --> 0:11:15.199 like I remember seeing mothers and grocery stores opening food 0:11:15.280 --> 0:11:16.720 products and smelling them. 0:11:16.840 --> 0:11:19.680 Yes, that's what you could do, and then. 0:11:19.760 --> 0:11:21.400 Closing it back and putting it back on the shelf. 0:11:21.440 --> 0:11:21.560 Mate. 0:11:21.640 --> 0:11:23.760 Yeah, oh there's a little mold in this one. Yeah, 0:11:23.800 --> 0:11:25.400 and I'll just leave it for the next person. 0:11:25.520 --> 0:11:29.120 Forget poisoning like these they could be spitting in this stuff. 0:11:29.160 --> 0:11:29.800 It was allowed. 0:11:30.400 --> 0:11:33.160 That's just the way it was. Like, there was America 0:11:33.600 --> 0:11:38.640 was innocent enough that that was fine. That's how we lived. 0:11:39.240 --> 0:11:42.160 And that sets up this Tile in All Poisoning. It 0:11:42.360 --> 0:11:47.200 really shows how much of a jarring experience it was 0:11:47.200 --> 0:11:50.959 from America, because all of a sudden, like it's finally 0:11:51.120 --> 0:11:54.079 sunk in in a couple of days, there's something wrong 0:11:54.120 --> 0:11:56.000 with the tile in all. Somebody has gone out of 0:11:56.000 --> 0:11:58.880 their way to poison the tail and all in order 0:11:58.920 --> 0:12:02.160 to randomly kill people. And the reason they were able 0:12:02.160 --> 0:12:05.360 to do this is because it's easy to get into 0:12:05.400 --> 0:12:08.320 the tile in all, tamper with it, put it back, 0:12:08.440 --> 0:12:11.439 and no one will be any any more. The wiser 0:12:12.040 --> 0:12:14.600 and wait, it's not just tile and all. Milk doesn't 0:12:14.640 --> 0:12:18.800 have anything that keeps it tamper resistant. Nei, there's orange juice, NEI, 0:12:18.840 --> 0:12:25.080 there's cereal. Neither does cottage cheese. Nothing does. And America 0:12:25.520 --> 0:12:28.400 forreaked out. And this is the reason why this Tile 0:12:28.400 --> 0:12:32.400 in All Poisoning is considered widely the first incident of 0:12:32.520 --> 0:12:36.160 domestic terrorism in the United States, because it was terrorism, 0:12:36.480 --> 0:12:40.160 pure and simple. America was terrified. They were petrified not 0:12:40.240 --> 0:12:42.680 only to take tail in all or any over the 0:12:42.720 --> 0:12:45.920 counter medicine. Now they were petrified to drink milk or 0:12:45.960 --> 0:12:48.920 give milk to their kids. Paula Prince, the flight attendant 0:12:48.960 --> 0:12:51.360 who was the last one to die in Chicago, she 0:12:51.400 --> 0:12:54.200 had a coworker who said, like, everything looked tainted. Now, 0:12:54.440 --> 0:12:56.120 I was afraid to give my kid's milk. I was 0:12:56.160 --> 0:12:58.200 afraid to give my kids cereal. If they could get 0:12:58.240 --> 0:13:01.360 to the tail and all, they can poison anything. And 0:13:01.400 --> 0:13:04.640 that was really emblematic of the attitude, the shock that 0:13:04.720 --> 0:13:07.920 everybody went through. And as a result, within six weeks, 0:13:08.280 --> 0:13:10.600 Tyland all said we got this covered. 0:13:10.720 --> 0:13:14.040 Yeah, And I have a feeling they did this so 0:13:14.200 --> 0:13:16.840 fast there had to have been this idea in place already. 0:13:16.880 --> 0:13:19.040 Yeah, it was. I saw a reference that it was. 0:13:19.080 --> 0:13:21.520 And I imagine it was not done because they're like, well, 0:13:21.600 --> 0:13:23.640 it's a lot of money, and why would we bother. 0:13:24.040 --> 0:13:26.800 It's like, it's not like someone's going to poison the medicine, right, 0:13:27.000 --> 0:13:30.200 And then that happened. So within six weeks they had 0:13:30.280 --> 0:13:33.520 a box that was actually glued shut, so if your 0:13:33.600 --> 0:13:36.120 little box had been opened, you would be able to tell. 0:13:35.960 --> 0:13:37.920 Yeah, that was That was part one of three of 0:13:37.920 --> 0:13:39.360 this tamper resistant packaging. 0:13:39.679 --> 0:13:42.560 That little plastic seal over the top of the bottle 0:13:42.600 --> 0:13:45.680 after you open it or no, no, no, the plastic is 0:13:45.679 --> 0:13:47.760 over the cap on the outside of the bottle. 0:13:47.840 --> 0:13:49.640 Yeah, like the plastic foil. 0:13:49.559 --> 0:13:53.360 And then the actual foil was over the mouth of 0:13:53.400 --> 0:13:55.080 the bottle that you we all have to poke through 0:13:55.120 --> 0:13:58.680 now to pull out the cotton and whatever still uses cotton. 0:13:58.880 --> 0:14:02.439 None of that existed until the beginning of nineteen eighty three. 0:14:02.600 --> 0:14:05.280 So all three of these are put in place within 0:14:05.360 --> 0:14:08.800 six weeks. Not only that, they said, you know what, 0:14:09.160 --> 0:14:12.400 we're going to introduce the caplet, which everyone knows now 0:14:12.480 --> 0:14:14.560 it was we didn't have them back then. Everything was 0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:17.520 a little capsule that you could literally pull apart, and 0:14:17.679 --> 0:14:19.520 you could snort the tile in all if you wanted to. 0:14:19.800 --> 0:14:22.040 Sure, I'm quite sure some people did. 0:14:22.120 --> 0:14:25.040 I'm sure someone did. But the caplet is, you know, 0:14:25.080 --> 0:14:27.640 a tablet coated with an easy to swallow a gelatine. 0:14:28.000 --> 0:14:32.080 It's solid, it's I imagine you could tamper with it. 0:14:32.440 --> 0:14:35.000 And even I even saw with all these things in place, 0:14:35.360 --> 0:14:38.960 they said, nothing is tamper proof. But these measures really 0:14:39.040 --> 0:14:42.160 went a long way to restore the public, you know, well, 0:14:43.000 --> 0:14:44.640 like the good feelings about what was going on. 0:14:44.800 --> 0:14:47.840 Yeah, within about a year, Thailand all or Johnson and 0:14:47.920 --> 0:14:51.600 Johnson managed to win the public's trust back in Thailand. 0:14:51.640 --> 0:14:54.880 All that's hard to believe. Yeah, that was really fast, but. 0:14:54.920 --> 0:14:57.760 It also goes to show like just how perfectly they 0:14:57.760 --> 0:15:00.400 did everything from that from the time they ca admitted 0:15:00.440 --> 0:15:00.920 to it on. 0:15:01.120 --> 0:15:03.920 Yeah, and I feel like I remember like commercials with 0:15:04.360 --> 0:15:07.720 CEOs and stuff addressing the public. He became sake. 0:15:07.880 --> 0:15:10.240 I can't remember his name. I want to say, Jeoffrey Beam. 0:15:10.360 --> 0:15:11.480 That's like a shoe brand. 0:15:12.200 --> 0:15:18.800 Gabby Johnson, No, um, Bill Johnson, No, Jimmy Howard Johnson. 0:15:19.040 --> 0:15:23.120 Yes, this, I can't remember his name, but he Jimmy 0:15:23.200 --> 0:15:26.520 Johnson is way far away from that. But he became 0:15:26.560 --> 0:15:29.320 a public face. He would, you know, go on to 0:15:29.440 --> 0:15:32.680 sixty minutes and he talked to Dan Reather and take 0:15:32.760 --> 0:15:35.920 Copple and all those cats like he he was out 0:15:35.920 --> 0:15:39.920 there like showing how much the company cared. Yeah, and 0:15:39.960 --> 0:15:41.320 it had had a huge effect. 0:15:41.760 --> 0:15:44.080 And then in nineteen eighty three, Congress got involved. They 0:15:44.080 --> 0:15:46.680 passed what they dubbed the Tail and All Bill, which 0:15:46.720 --> 0:15:49.040 basically says, if you do something like this is now 0:15:49.080 --> 0:15:53.720 a federal offense. A few years later, in nineteen eighty nine, 0:15:54.000 --> 0:15:58.600 the FDA actually established guidelines for all manufacturers of any 0:15:58.640 --> 0:16:00.360 product really to make it Tampa proof. 0:16:00.440 --> 0:16:04.440 Yeah, because it wasn't just the OTC manufacturers that started 0:16:04.480 --> 0:16:07.200 doing this. They followed suit very quickly once Tail and 0:16:07.240 --> 0:16:09.240 all came out with it, because they kind of had 0:16:09.240 --> 0:16:11.240 to if they wanted to keep up with TIL and all. 0:16:12.160 --> 0:16:17.240 But also the uh, the manufacturers of everything, like every product, 0:16:17.440 --> 0:16:20.600 every consumer product, started putting their products in like tamper 0:16:20.880 --> 0:16:26.040 proof packaging. Dial soap started coming wrapped in cellophane inside 0:16:26.080 --> 0:16:26.840 the box. 0:16:27.080 --> 0:16:28.400 To trap the chemicals in. 0:16:28.720 --> 0:16:31.840 I guess, but also to show like nobody's injected this 0:16:31.960 --> 0:16:36.600 with lie or something like that, although lie is used 0:16:36.600 --> 0:16:38.840 in the making the soap, isn't it. I remember my 0:16:38.880 --> 0:16:39.440 fight Club. 0:16:41.840 --> 0:16:46.160 It's pretty funny someone injected soap into the soap. All right, 0:16:46.240 --> 0:16:48.480 let's take another break and we'll come back and talk 0:16:48.520 --> 0:16:52.400 a little bit more about the profile of the supposed 0:16:52.480 --> 0:16:53.760 mad poisoner. Right after this. 0:16:55.840 --> 0:17:03.320 Stop you know, stop stop, should know no stop? 0:17:17.240 --> 0:17:21.119 All right. So this was a very big case at 0:17:21.119 --> 0:17:23.159 the time. Obviously, like we've been saying, it was a 0:17:23.240 --> 0:17:28.959 landmark case. So of course you're going to get psychological profiles, 0:17:29.560 --> 0:17:31.840 which you know we should do one in profiling. Actually, 0:17:31.880 --> 0:17:32.480 have we done that. 0:17:32.600 --> 0:17:34.000 I don't think so, it'd be a good one. 0:17:34.119 --> 0:17:36.560 Yeah, because it always like seems like the trope in 0:17:36.640 --> 0:17:38.879 movies and TV. But it is kind of like that. 0:17:39.119 --> 0:17:40.240 No, it is a thing for sure. 0:17:40.320 --> 0:17:42.040 It's not like they just make this stuff up. But 0:17:42.200 --> 0:17:44.760 in the end they said, you know, this is probably 0:17:44.760 --> 0:17:48.160 a man in his twenties or thirties who was sort 0:17:48.160 --> 0:17:50.680 of a Jekyll and Hide type During the day, he's 0:17:50.760 --> 0:17:53.640 very ordinary. He could be in the desk cubicle next 0:17:53.680 --> 0:17:54.760 to you and you wouldn't even know it. 0:17:54.800 --> 0:17:56.520 Every once in a while uses here him go more. 0:17:57.040 --> 0:18:00.639 Yeah, exactly. But deep in his in the recesses of 0:18:00.680 --> 0:18:04.639 his brain, everyone, he's plagued with self doubt and has 0:18:04.680 --> 0:18:07.000 an illusion that a random killing can boost a sense 0:18:07.040 --> 0:18:13.240 of self worth, which is just sounds like a straight 0:18:13.240 --> 0:18:13.960 out of a movie. 0:18:14.000 --> 0:18:16.240 It sounds like a psychiatrist saying I want to be 0:18:16.320 --> 0:18:18.399 on TV. Yeah, listen to me. 0:18:19.520 --> 0:18:23.719 They also speculated, and this is just completely like conjecture 0:18:24.520 --> 0:18:26.760 was that he had probably already taken his own life 0:18:28.000 --> 0:18:28.960 after the killings. 0:18:29.280 --> 0:18:32.240 That was one specific person who was it that. Yeah, Yeah, 0:18:32.400 --> 0:18:36.160 it was I think like the medical examiner for Cook County. 0:18:36.680 --> 0:18:40.520 Yeah, he probably already jumped off the bridge, so don't 0:18:40.520 --> 0:18:41.080 worry about it. 0:18:41.200 --> 0:18:45.280 Don't worry everybody. Yeah, yeah, he just threw that out there. 0:18:45.400 --> 0:18:47.199 I don't know if it was to calm people or not, 0:18:47.359 --> 0:18:50.280 but or maybe he's just throwing his two cents in. 0:18:50.840 --> 0:18:55.399 But I think you kind of said it earlier. I 0:18:55.400 --> 0:18:57.239 don't remember if it was part one or part two. 0:18:57.320 --> 0:18:59.600 The whole things is blurred and become a haze by now. 0:19:00.000 --> 0:19:05.200 But no one has ever been charged with the Thailand 0:19:05.200 --> 0:19:05.840 All murders. 0:19:06.600 --> 0:19:07.960 Yeah that's the ending. 0:19:07.960 --> 0:19:11.520 But there has been There were a lot of suspects 0:19:11.560 --> 0:19:14.600 that remember Thailand All set up a hotline and this 0:19:14.760 --> 0:19:18.080 Thailand All Task Force, one hundred and forty person strong 0:19:18.240 --> 0:19:23.639 task force investigating this, chasing down leads, taking calls on 0:19:23.680 --> 0:19:27.240 the hotline. Thousands and thousands of calls that were coming in. Yeah, 0:19:28.040 --> 0:19:31.280 they were trying to whittle those down into actual tips 0:19:31.359 --> 0:19:34.480 that were worth pursuing, and out of all of them, 0:19:34.520 --> 0:19:39.680 they deemed twelve hundred tips or twelve hundred leads worth 0:19:39.720 --> 0:19:42.760 checking out. There's a lot of leads for a case, 0:19:44.160 --> 0:19:46.800 even considering yet one hundred and forty people working them. 0:19:47.280 --> 0:19:49.879 And I read somewhere that they started out with like 0:19:50.040 --> 0:19:53.679 twenty thousand suspects or something like that and whittled it 0:19:53.720 --> 0:19:54.679 down to four hundred. 0:19:54.920 --> 0:19:57.439 Yeah, And sort of the sad part is as quickly 0:19:57.440 --> 0:19:59.760 as they sort of figured a lot of this out 0:20:00.720 --> 0:20:02.960 and had that one hundred and forty person task force, 0:20:03.520 --> 0:20:07.080 they almost just as quickly within a few months, realized that, like, 0:20:08.000 --> 0:20:10.159 we don't have a very good chance at finding this person. 0:20:10.240 --> 0:20:11.840 Yeah, it became clear very quickly. 0:20:12.040 --> 0:20:15.000 Yeah, they whittled that down. By the last week of October, 0:20:15.040 --> 0:20:17.359 the task force was down to forty people. By the 0:20:17.440 --> 0:20:19.800 end of the year, it was down to twenty. And 0:20:20.040 --> 0:20:22.600 it was a situation again in nineteen eighty two where 0:20:23.240 --> 0:20:27.320 you didn't have security cameras everywhere, you didn't have credit 0:20:27.359 --> 0:20:31.920 cards and debit cards creating paper trails. It was a 0:20:31.960 --> 0:20:34.600 lot easier back then to get away with something like this, 0:20:34.720 --> 0:20:39.359