WEBVTT - Hooves, Part 1

0:00:03.040 --> 0:00:06.840
<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, the production of iHeartRadio.

0:00:13.000 --> 0:00:14.960
<v Speaker 2>Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My

0:00:15.040 --> 0:00:16.360
<v Speaker 2>name is Robert Lamb.

0:00:16.160 --> 0:00:18.479
<v Speaker 3>And I'm Joe McCormick, and today we are going to

0:00:18.520 --> 0:00:23.480
<v Speaker 3>begin a look at the hoof, the animal hoof, specifically

0:00:23.880 --> 0:00:26.960
<v Speaker 3>the horse hoof. Rob how did you get interested in this?

0:00:27.440 --> 0:00:30.400
<v Speaker 2>Well, I was in New York last week with my family,

0:00:30.560 --> 0:00:34.240
<v Speaker 2>went to the American Natural History Museum, and I was

0:00:34.320 --> 0:00:38.760
<v Speaker 2>looking at fossils and bones, and I was captivated by

0:00:38.840 --> 0:00:42.200
<v Speaker 2>some of the some of the bones of the horse

0:00:42.400 --> 0:00:45.760
<v Speaker 2>and started thinking about the hoof and just how strange

0:00:45.880 --> 0:00:49.920
<v Speaker 2>the hoof is. Yet yet at the same time, we

0:00:50.320 --> 0:00:52.640
<v Speaker 2>kind of take it for granted, because even if you

0:00:52.720 --> 0:00:55.760
<v Speaker 2>are not a person who lives among horses and cares

0:00:55.800 --> 0:01:00.000
<v Speaker 2>for horses, horses are everywhere in our imagery and our

0:01:00.160 --> 0:01:04.200
<v Speaker 2>iconography and our entertainment. You can scarcely be a video

0:01:04.280 --> 0:01:07.600
<v Speaker 2>game player at all without having mounted a horse, or

0:01:07.680 --> 0:01:09.880
<v Speaker 2>lost a horse, or accidentally driven a horse off a

0:01:09.880 --> 0:01:13.000
<v Speaker 2>cliff or up a wall at some point. So I

0:01:13.120 --> 0:01:14.920
<v Speaker 2>was I was really taken by this, like I had

0:01:14.959 --> 0:01:18.520
<v Speaker 2>not really in my life set aside any time to

0:01:18.600 --> 0:01:21.400
<v Speaker 2>just consider the utter weirdness of the horse hoof.

0:01:21.880 --> 0:01:24.160
<v Speaker 3>I almost feel like the weirdness of the horse hoof

0:01:24.360 --> 0:01:28.080
<v Speaker 3>is embodied in the sound of the horse galloping, and

0:01:28.120 --> 0:01:30.920
<v Speaker 3>how different that is from the sound of the movement

0:01:30.920 --> 0:01:32.720
<v Speaker 3>and most other animals you'd think about.

0:01:33.640 --> 0:01:36.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean it's like the drumming of fingers on

0:01:37.080 --> 0:01:40.920
<v Speaker 2>a table, right, Yeah, like that's that's that's an attempting

0:01:41.200 --> 0:01:44.360
<v Speaker 2>direction to go in anyway. Yeah, I feel like it's

0:01:44.480 --> 0:01:46.800
<v Speaker 2>it's all too easy to take the hoof for granted,

0:01:46.880 --> 0:01:49.320
<v Speaker 2>even in literature. You know, I was thinking, well, we can,

0:01:49.600 --> 0:01:51.760
<v Speaker 2>we can kick off this episode with a nice little

0:01:51.880 --> 0:01:56.000
<v Speaker 2>quote or a little reading from something that kind of captures,

0:01:56.960 --> 0:01:59.440
<v Speaker 2>you know, our current level of fascination with the hoof,

0:01:59.640 --> 0:02:03.160
<v Speaker 2>But I really wasn't able to find much. Now again,

0:02:03.840 --> 0:02:08.720
<v Speaker 2>horses and hooves are just throughout human literature. They're everywhere,

0:02:09.680 --> 0:02:13.799
<v Speaker 2>and there are a lot of literary references to the

0:02:14.240 --> 0:02:18.360
<v Speaker 2>to hooves and the sound of hooves. One poem in particular,

0:02:18.560 --> 0:02:21.840
<v Speaker 2>in particular that I found that I ultimately didn't like

0:02:21.880 --> 0:02:24.120
<v Speaker 2>well enough to feature in the Cold Open, but it's

0:02:24.160 --> 0:02:27.800
<v Speaker 2>still notable, is The hoofs of the Horses by William

0:02:27.840 --> 0:02:32.800
<v Speaker 2>Henry Ogilvy, who lived eighteen sixty nine through nineteen sixty three.

0:02:33.000 --> 0:02:35.360
<v Speaker 2>I don't know if you're familiar with this poem, Joe,

0:02:35.360 --> 0:02:37.959
<v Speaker 2>but it's just all about how much he just absolutely

0:02:38.040 --> 0:02:40.080
<v Speaker 2>loves the cadence of horse hooves.

0:02:40.280 --> 0:02:42.640
<v Speaker 3>No, I was not familiar with this poem before you

0:02:42.680 --> 0:02:45.239
<v Speaker 3>did share it with me. It is it's an almost

0:02:45.480 --> 0:02:50.280
<v Speaker 3>comical level of appreciation for horse hooves, an attitude very

0:02:50.360 --> 0:02:52.760
<v Speaker 3>much of I'll stop thinking about the sound of horse

0:02:52.760 --> 0:02:55.400
<v Speaker 3>hooves when I'm dead, or maybe I won't. When I'm dead,

0:02:55.440 --> 0:02:58.119
<v Speaker 3>I'll still dream of them even in the grave. It's

0:02:58.120 --> 0:03:01.880
<v Speaker 3>also it goes with the plural. I looked it up

0:03:01.919 --> 0:03:05.520
<v Speaker 3>to see is there any difference hooves versus hoofs, and

0:03:05.760 --> 0:03:08.240
<v Speaker 3>it seems like no, I both have been used in English.

0:03:08.280 --> 0:03:12.240
<v Speaker 3>I think hoofs with the F plural is more archaic.

0:03:12.320 --> 0:03:14.520
<v Speaker 2>Usually, this is one of those poems that you know,

0:03:14.560 --> 0:03:17.280
<v Speaker 2>sometimes I read a really good rhyming poem with great cadence,

0:03:17.280 --> 0:03:18.880
<v Speaker 2>and you know, I'm like, why don't we rhyme our

0:03:18.919 --> 0:03:22.240
<v Speaker 2>poems anymore? You know, all poems should rhyme. This is great.

0:03:22.480 --> 0:03:24.880
<v Speaker 2>This is the opposite end of the spectrum for me,

0:03:25.000 --> 0:03:27.799
<v Speaker 2>Like this one's just kind of goofy like it starts

0:03:27.880 --> 0:03:30.560
<v Speaker 2>off the hoofs of the horses. Oh, witching and sweet

0:03:30.919 --> 0:03:34.399
<v Speaker 2>is the music Earth steals from the ironshod feet, yeah,

0:03:34.440 --> 0:03:38.560
<v Speaker 2>et cetera. So it's not to my liking, but I

0:03:38.560 --> 0:03:41.000
<v Speaker 2>can understand where someone else might might love it as

0:03:41.080 --> 0:03:43.440
<v Speaker 2>much as this man loved horse hoofs. Well.

0:03:43.480 --> 0:03:47.640
<v Speaker 3>It also commits the ultimate sin of rhyming above with love.

0:03:47.920 --> 0:03:50.680
<v Speaker 3>That's you can't you can't come back from that.

0:03:51.960 --> 0:03:54.800
<v Speaker 2>But again, it is not the only account of hooves

0:03:54.920 --> 0:03:58.320
<v Speaker 2>or mention of hooves in literature. Shakespeare writes of horses

0:03:58.440 --> 0:04:02.320
<v Speaker 2>quote printing their proud hoofs in the Receiving Earth. Other

0:04:02.440 --> 0:04:06.119
<v Speaker 2>quotes speak of the violence of the hoof, a thing

0:04:06.200 --> 0:04:09.200
<v Speaker 2>that imprints the soil or even the flesh of those

0:04:09.320 --> 0:04:12.680
<v Speaker 2>fallen in war. Here's a bit from the Jackery, a

0:04:12.760 --> 0:04:16.279
<v Speaker 2>fragment by Sidney Lanier who lived eighteen forty two through

0:04:16.320 --> 0:04:21.719
<v Speaker 2>eighteen eighty one. Midst of the crowd Old Grisgrion the Maimed,

0:04:22.120 --> 0:04:25.440
<v Speaker 2>a wretched wreck that fate had floated out from the

0:04:25.520 --> 0:04:29.560
<v Speaker 2>deer storm of battle at Poci. A living man whose

0:04:29.680 --> 0:04:33.720
<v Speaker 2>larger moiety was dead and buried on the battlefield. A

0:04:33.760 --> 0:04:37.599
<v Speaker 2>grizzly trunk without arms or legs and scarred with hoof

0:04:37.680 --> 0:04:42.039
<v Speaker 2>cuts over cheek and brow lay in his wicker cradle smiling,

0:04:42.600 --> 0:04:45.040
<v Speaker 2>And then later on in the same scene, the protagonists

0:04:45.560 --> 0:04:48.880
<v Speaker 2>comments that quote there is no face of man or

0:04:49.000 --> 0:04:53.520
<v Speaker 2>woman here, but showeth print of the hard hoof of war.

0:04:54.279 --> 0:04:56.240
<v Speaker 3>Well, I think that's fair. As much as we can

0:04:56.279 --> 0:04:58.719
<v Speaker 3>admire hoofs from afar, I don't think you want to

0:04:58.720 --> 0:05:01.120
<v Speaker 3>come into contact with by way of force.

0:05:01.760 --> 0:05:04.240
<v Speaker 2>No, no, absolutely you didn't absolutely do not want to

0:05:04.240 --> 0:05:07.000
<v Speaker 2>be kicked by a horse. On one level, just for

0:05:07.080 --> 0:05:11.760
<v Speaker 2>sheer strength and power of said kick or or the

0:05:12.200 --> 0:05:16.000
<v Speaker 2>weight of said step. But also yeah, the hoof as well,

0:05:16.040 --> 0:05:18.479
<v Speaker 2>explain is it's not an instrument you want make in

0:05:18.520 --> 0:05:22.560
<v Speaker 2>contact with your body with force or speed. Now, there are,

0:05:22.560 --> 0:05:24.560
<v Speaker 2>of course many references to the hoof and the works

0:05:24.560 --> 0:05:28.680
<v Speaker 2>of Cormick McCarthy, the none that I could remember or

0:05:28.800 --> 0:05:31.320
<v Speaker 2>search up that really goes in deep on the weirdness

0:05:31.320 --> 0:05:35.000
<v Speaker 2>and wonder of the horse hoof. Still, here's a favorite

0:05:35.040 --> 0:05:39.039
<v Speaker 2>from Blood Meridian quote under the hoofs of the horses,

0:05:39.120 --> 0:05:44.320
<v Speaker 2>the alabaster sand shaped itself in whirls, strangely symmetric like

0:05:44.440 --> 0:05:48.160
<v Speaker 2>iron filings in a field, and these shapes flared and

0:05:48.240 --> 0:05:52.520
<v Speaker 2>drew back again, resonating upon that harmonic ground, and then

0:05:52.600 --> 0:05:56.200
<v Speaker 2>turning to swirl away over the plaia, as if the

0:05:56.360 --> 0:05:59.560
<v Speaker 2>very sediment of things contained yet some residue of scentiens,

0:06:00.160 --> 0:06:02.480
<v Speaker 2>as if in the trendsit of those riders were a

0:06:02.520 --> 0:06:06.039
<v Speaker 2>thing so profoundly terrible as to register even to the

0:06:06.120 --> 0:06:11.039
<v Speaker 2>uttermost granulation of reality. Wow. Yeah, so great line. But also,

0:06:11.200 --> 0:06:13.559
<v Speaker 2>you know, Cormack doesn't rest, doesn't really go in hard

0:06:13.640 --> 0:06:16.720
<v Speaker 2>on just how weird it is that horses are strange

0:06:16.720 --> 0:06:22.000
<v Speaker 2>mammals running around on highly evolved like finger bones, Like

0:06:22.480 --> 0:06:26.320
<v Speaker 2>there's a there's a weirdness to the hoof that you

0:06:26.320 --> 0:06:28.560
<v Speaker 2>know that he doesn't he even doesn't get into, because

0:06:28.600 --> 0:06:30.680
<v Speaker 2>it's just such a part of, say, the tapestry of

0:06:31.160 --> 0:06:34.839
<v Speaker 2>the American West, you know, in the case of his Westerns.

0:06:35.279 --> 0:06:38.839
<v Speaker 2>It's also possible that I'm forgetting some some key line

0:06:38.880 --> 0:06:41.560
<v Speaker 2>and another of his book, maybe the you know, the

0:06:41.880 --> 0:06:45.640
<v Speaker 2>All the Pretty Horses or one of its sequels. But nothing,

0:06:45.760 --> 0:06:48.760
<v Speaker 2>nothing came to mind or in search when I was

0:06:48.839 --> 0:06:50.440
<v Speaker 2>thinking about it just the other day.

0:06:51.240 --> 0:06:54.080
<v Speaker 3>Well, maybe here is an amazing place to start. If

0:06:54.080 --> 0:06:58.240
<v Speaker 3>you want to consider the more granular anatomy of the

0:06:58.279 --> 0:07:01.360
<v Speaker 3>horse's foot and the hoof. Uh So, look look at

0:07:01.360 --> 0:07:03.960
<v Speaker 3>your hands there. You know you get human hands and

0:07:04.440 --> 0:07:07.839
<v Speaker 3>extend the middle fingers on both of your hands. Obviously,

0:07:07.839 --> 0:07:08.480
<v Speaker 3>not if you're.

0:07:08.560 --> 0:07:09.760
<v Speaker 2>In prospectible things.

0:07:09.920 --> 0:07:13.680
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, in p you know, discreetly extend those two

0:07:13.720 --> 0:07:20.280
<v Speaker 3>middle fingers. These are the analogous bone structures that evolved

0:07:20.480 --> 0:07:23.160
<v Speaker 3>in the horse to become the part of the horse's

0:07:23.200 --> 0:07:28.440
<v Speaker 3>body that makes contact with the ground. So when horses gallop,

0:07:28.840 --> 0:07:33.520
<v Speaker 3>they are galloping on adapted versions of your middle fingers.

0:07:34.760 --> 0:07:36.800
<v Speaker 3>So you just imagine running out of that middle your

0:07:36.840 --> 0:07:39.080
<v Speaker 3>two middle fingers in front, your two middle toes in

0:07:39.120 --> 0:07:43.200
<v Speaker 3>the back. Uh, those got really thick, really strong. Everything

0:07:43.200 --> 0:07:45.520
<v Speaker 3>else kind of shrank back and receded in a way.

0:07:46.240 --> 0:07:48.280
<v Speaker 3>We can talk later on about whether it makes sense

0:07:48.320 --> 0:07:51.480
<v Speaker 3>to say that the horse still has those other fingers

0:07:51.520 --> 0:07:54.680
<v Speaker 3>in some way or not. But basically that the part

0:07:54.680 --> 0:07:57.320
<v Speaker 3>of the the leg that is making contact with the

0:07:57.320 --> 0:08:00.240
<v Speaker 3>ground and supporting the weight of the horse is the

0:08:00.400 --> 0:08:01.240
<v Speaker 3>middle finger.

0:08:01.880 --> 0:08:04.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, which is just absolutely bonkers when you stop and

0:08:04.960 --> 0:08:05.880
<v Speaker 2>think about it.

0:08:05.880 --> 0:08:09.160
<v Speaker 3>It is. And the genus T which horses belong is

0:08:09.880 --> 0:08:14.240
<v Speaker 3>unique in this regard among the ungulates. So all of

0:08:14.280 --> 0:08:17.520
<v Speaker 3>the four legged vertebrates on earth that live on land

0:08:18.000 --> 0:08:21.720
<v Speaker 3>share a common ancestor that had five toes on each

0:08:21.800 --> 0:08:24.960
<v Speaker 3>foot had four legs and five toes on each foot.

0:08:25.320 --> 0:08:28.400
<v Speaker 3>That's our heritage, and we walk around on two legs now.

0:08:28.440 --> 0:08:31.400
<v Speaker 3>But we are still we're still part of that evolutionary lineage.

0:08:31.920 --> 0:08:34.280
<v Speaker 3>We still have five fingers on our hands and five

0:08:34.320 --> 0:08:37.040
<v Speaker 3>toes on our feet to show for it. But some

0:08:37.120 --> 0:08:40.760
<v Speaker 3>of our cousins in this lineage have undergone more radical

0:08:40.800 --> 0:08:45.680
<v Speaker 3>transformations in the bone structure of these distal regions of

0:08:45.720 --> 0:08:50.240
<v Speaker 3>the limbs, the ends of each limb. Hippopotamuses, for example,

0:08:50.360 --> 0:08:57.800
<v Speaker 3>have four toes, rhinoceroses and tapers have three toes. Camels, deer, sheep, goats,

0:08:57.800 --> 0:09:01.319
<v Speaker 3>and cattle have two toes. But there is only one

0:09:01.440 --> 0:09:04.640
<v Speaker 3>group of animals existing today that has evolved to have

0:09:04.760 --> 0:09:08.880
<v Speaker 3>a single toe that contacts the ground on each foot,

0:09:09.280 --> 0:09:12.560
<v Speaker 3>and that is horses, or more precisely, the evolutionary group

0:09:12.600 --> 0:09:16.119
<v Speaker 3>to which modern horses belong, which is the genus equus,

0:09:16.200 --> 0:09:21.200
<v Speaker 3>which includes horses, zebras, and donkeys. And the scientific term

0:09:21.280 --> 0:09:27.160
<v Speaker 3>for having only one toe is monodactyally, So these monodactyls

0:09:27.200 --> 0:09:30.200
<v Speaker 3>are out there running around on their middle fingers that

0:09:30.520 --> 0:09:33.320
<v Speaker 3>when you hear hoof beats, that's what you're hearing, the

0:09:33.360 --> 0:09:34.160
<v Speaker 3>middle fingers.

0:09:34.760 --> 0:09:38.000
<v Speaker 2>And you know, again this is super weird and glorious.

0:09:38.600 --> 0:09:40.480
<v Speaker 2>But at the same time, it would be a mistake

0:09:40.600 --> 0:09:43.520
<v Speaker 2>to think of this as a kind of simplification, you know,

0:09:44.400 --> 0:09:47.320
<v Speaker 2>because the horse hoof will be discussing here is anything,

0:09:47.400 --> 0:09:52.079
<v Speaker 2>but it's a complex structure composed of hard cornified structures,

0:09:52.200 --> 0:09:54.520
<v Speaker 2>living tissues, tendons, ligaments.

0:09:54.080 --> 0:09:54.480
<v Speaker 4>And more.

0:09:55.880 --> 0:09:58.360
<v Speaker 2>You know, there are the various bones we're going to

0:09:58.360 --> 0:10:01.800
<v Speaker 2>be discussing. We should you know, also not make the

0:10:01.840 --> 0:10:04.640
<v Speaker 2>mistake of overestimating the strength of the hoof, because yes,

0:10:04.679 --> 0:10:07.840
<v Speaker 2>it's a highly evolved anatomical feature that serves a horse

0:10:07.960 --> 0:10:10.440
<v Speaker 2>very well in its natural environment, but they are still

0:10:10.440 --> 0:10:14.520
<v Speaker 2>susceptible to injury and illness, and you know, the ravages

0:10:14.520 --> 0:10:19.280
<v Speaker 2>of aging plus domestication by humans has of course augmented

0:10:19.600 --> 0:10:22.720
<v Speaker 2>the horse's natural environment and also changed the sort of

0:10:22.760 --> 0:10:26.840
<v Speaker 2>regular wear and tear that they might endure on set hoofs.

0:10:27.360 --> 0:10:29.720
<v Speaker 2>So to just doing what I'm gonna do is going

0:10:29.800 --> 0:10:32.160
<v Speaker 2>to provide kind of an overview of the different parts

0:10:32.360 --> 0:10:35.920
<v Speaker 2>of the main outer and inner parts of the horse,

0:10:35.960 --> 0:10:38.760
<v Speaker 2>hoof of the foot of the horse. Not in a

0:10:38.800 --> 0:10:43.079
<v Speaker 2>way that will just completely bombard the listener with horse terminology,

0:10:43.320 --> 0:10:46.880
<v Speaker 2>but hopefully get across some of the complexity here. And

0:10:46.920 --> 0:10:48.960
<v Speaker 2>if you are a horse person, and I don't know,

0:10:48.960 --> 0:10:52.560
<v Speaker 2>maybe you're listening to this podcast whilst you attend to

0:10:52.640 --> 0:10:55.679
<v Speaker 2>the hoofs of a horse, well you might have some

0:10:55.760 --> 0:10:59.760
<v Speaker 2>added information to write into us about. If you're not

0:10:59.800 --> 0:11:02.200
<v Speaker 2>a horse person, then I think you might find some

0:11:02.240 --> 0:11:06.199
<v Speaker 2>of the terminology kind of surprising. I know, not being

0:11:06.200 --> 0:11:08.480
<v Speaker 2>a horse person myself. There there. I remember the first

0:11:08.480 --> 0:11:11.880
<v Speaker 2>time I read Cornick McCarthy's Blood Meridian, there was there

0:11:11.920 --> 0:11:13.800
<v Speaker 2>was a bit that really threw me for a curve.

0:11:14.679 --> 0:11:17.840
<v Speaker 2>It goes as follows quote. He got down and drew

0:11:17.920 --> 0:11:20.599
<v Speaker 2>up the horse's leg. The frog of the hoof was

0:11:20.640 --> 0:11:23.640
<v Speaker 2>split and bloody, and the animal's shoulder quivered. He let

0:11:23.640 --> 0:11:26.360
<v Speaker 2>the hoof down. The sun was about two hours high,

0:11:26.600 --> 0:11:28.479
<v Speaker 2>and now there was dust on the horizon.

0:11:28.960 --> 0:11:30.920
<v Speaker 3>I don't know what that means, but it doesn't sound good.

0:11:30.960 --> 0:11:32.800
<v Speaker 3>The frog of the hoof.

0:11:33.120 --> 0:11:38.480
<v Speaker 2>Yep, the frog of the hoof. So the frog is

0:11:38.120 --> 0:11:42.679
<v Speaker 2>a is a key part of the outer anatomy of

0:11:42.720 --> 0:11:46.680
<v Speaker 2>the horse's foot. This is a wedge shaped mass on

0:11:46.800 --> 0:11:50.240
<v Speaker 2>the bottom of the horse's foot that you know, I suppose,

0:11:50.360 --> 0:11:53.760
<v Speaker 2>kind of looks like a dark frog. According to Robert C.

0:11:53.960 --> 0:11:57.040
<v Speaker 2>McClure at all in a paper titled Functional Anatomy of

0:11:57.120 --> 0:11:59.960
<v Speaker 2>the horse Foot. This was for the University of Missouri,

0:12:00.920 --> 0:12:03.680
<v Speaker 2>the frog is one of the flexible parts of the

0:12:03.720 --> 0:12:08.360
<v Speaker 2>hoof's external structures. It normally makes contact with the ground first,

0:12:08.800 --> 0:12:11.920
<v Speaker 2>and then it kind of like pushes into the digital cushion,

0:12:12.000 --> 0:12:15.880
<v Speaker 2>an internal mass of flexible material above the frog that

0:12:15.960 --> 0:12:19.280
<v Speaker 2>contributes to the formation of the heels and serves as

0:12:19.320 --> 0:12:22.800
<v Speaker 2>one of the primary shock absorbers in the horse's foot.

0:12:23.280 --> 0:12:26.679
<v Speaker 3>This is an interesting balance to observe with the hoof

0:12:26.720 --> 0:12:30.520
<v Speaker 3>here in that it has a so the outer mass

0:12:30.520 --> 0:12:33.080
<v Speaker 3>of the hoof that you will have observed before you know,

0:12:33.120 --> 0:12:36.400
<v Speaker 3>the hard part is a hard carrat in structure, and

0:12:36.480 --> 0:12:40.520
<v Speaker 3>yet the hoof also has to remain somewhat springy and flexible.

0:12:40.679 --> 0:12:41.960
<v Speaker 3>You don't want it to be like a piece of

0:12:42.000 --> 0:12:45.720
<v Speaker 3>concrete that might be really hard but on sufficient impact

0:12:45.880 --> 0:12:47.040
<v Speaker 3>is rigid and cracks.

0:12:47.720 --> 0:12:50.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Yeah, again, it would be a gross simplification to

0:12:50.559 --> 0:12:52.520
<v Speaker 2>think of a horse as just running around on like

0:12:52.640 --> 0:12:55.679
<v Speaker 2>wooden stilt legs, you know, like that its hoofs are

0:12:55.760 --> 0:12:59.400
<v Speaker 2>just like solid things. It's a lot more complicated than that.

0:13:00.200 --> 0:13:02.080
<v Speaker 2>Now you might be wondering, well, why do they call

0:13:02.120 --> 0:13:03.559
<v Speaker 2>it a frog? You may be looking it up to

0:13:03.600 --> 0:13:06.360
<v Speaker 2>see just how much like a frog it, you know,

0:13:07.320 --> 0:13:10.640
<v Speaker 2>to what degree it resembles a frog. I've seen it

0:13:10.760 --> 0:13:14.000
<v Speaker 2>sort of described a couple of different ways that either

0:13:14.120 --> 0:13:17.360
<v Speaker 2>it does roughly look like a frog, and that perhaps

0:13:17.360 --> 0:13:20.160
<v Speaker 2>there's this added level of well, you find it under

0:13:20.200 --> 0:13:22.760
<v Speaker 2>the hoof in the same way a frog might be

0:13:22.840 --> 0:13:26.400
<v Speaker 2>found under a rock or leaf. I don't know. Maybe

0:13:26.880 --> 0:13:30.199
<v Speaker 2>I've also heard that it really more accurately resembles the

0:13:30.240 --> 0:13:34.400
<v Speaker 2>pelvic bone of a frog, which apparently was carried for

0:13:34.480 --> 0:13:37.880
<v Speaker 2>good luck by horsemen. And this also might be tied

0:13:38.360 --> 0:13:41.200
<v Speaker 2>to traditions of the horseshoe, which we're not going to

0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:43.280
<v Speaker 2>really discuss in this episode, but we may get to

0:13:43.600 --> 0:13:47.040
<v Speaker 2>in a subsequent episode these of horseshoes as lucky charms

0:13:47.040 --> 0:13:47.440
<v Speaker 2>as well.

0:13:48.000 --> 0:13:50.680
<v Speaker 3>Interesting. Okay, I just looked up the pelvic bone of

0:13:50.720 --> 0:13:53.680
<v Speaker 3>a frog. It kind of looks like the wishbone on

0:13:53.720 --> 0:13:57.200
<v Speaker 3>a chicken. So yeah, I don't know. And I'm looking

0:13:57.240 --> 0:13:59.040
<v Speaker 3>at the frog of a hoof Now it's sort of

0:13:59.160 --> 0:14:02.800
<v Speaker 3>v shaped. Uh, you have to you have to stretch

0:14:02.840 --> 0:14:04.560
<v Speaker 3>your mind a little bit. But I could see that.

0:14:05.040 --> 0:14:07.520
<v Speaker 2>Now the frog is apparently made up of the same

0:14:07.559 --> 0:14:09.920
<v Speaker 2>material as the hoof wall. More on what do we

0:14:09.960 --> 0:14:11.600
<v Speaker 2>mean by hoofball in the second, But you can think

0:14:11.679 --> 0:14:14.080
<v Speaker 2>like the outer hoof as you see it, But it's

0:14:14.120 --> 0:14:17.760
<v Speaker 2>more moist certainly if it's healthy, apparently something like fifty

0:14:17.800 --> 0:14:21.280
<v Speaker 2>percent moisture or thereabouts. Now, And that's not to say

0:14:21.320 --> 0:14:24.400
<v Speaker 2>that the hoof wall itself is dry. In fact, the

0:14:24.720 --> 0:14:26.800
<v Speaker 2>hoof wall or the proper you know hoof that you

0:14:27.440 --> 0:14:29.280
<v Speaker 2>see if you're just looking at a picture of a horse,

0:14:30.080 --> 0:14:33.200
<v Speaker 2>it's in fact covered with material that prevents moisture loss.

0:14:33.520 --> 0:14:37.520
<v Speaker 2>And with domestic horses, hoof paint is sometimes added as

0:14:37.560 --> 0:14:41.120
<v Speaker 2>well to help contain moisture. So again, even the hardest

0:14:41.120 --> 0:14:44.200
<v Speaker 2>part of the of the horses hoof cannot be really

0:14:44.240 --> 0:14:47.200
<v Speaker 2>thought of as just this, you know, like you rock,

0:14:47.800 --> 0:14:51.600
<v Speaker 2>you know, hard substance, like it's in these these are

0:14:52.200 --> 0:14:55.520
<v Speaker 2>you know, organic structures, and there is moisture to them.

0:14:55.600 --> 0:14:57.760
<v Speaker 3>And with the keratin basis. I think you could probably

0:14:57.760 --> 0:14:59.680
<v Speaker 3>think about it more akin to like a like a

0:14:59.720 --> 0:15:02.440
<v Speaker 3>horn or like a thick fingernail exactly.

0:15:02.560 --> 0:15:06.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Now, the frog, interestingly enough, is also a scent gland,

0:15:06.840 --> 0:15:09.400
<v Speaker 2>along with the chestnut of the leg and the airgut

0:15:09.440 --> 0:15:12.040
<v Speaker 2>of the fetlock. This is one of the reasons that

0:15:12.120 --> 0:15:15.040
<v Speaker 2>dogs can track horses as well as they can. Plus

0:15:15.160 --> 0:15:17.080
<v Speaker 2>is apparently one of the ways that horses sniff out

0:15:17.080 --> 0:15:18.040
<v Speaker 2>each other in the field.

0:15:18.680 --> 0:15:19.760
<v Speaker 3>I had no idea.

0:15:20.000 --> 0:15:21.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there's a hole. There's a hole just un right

0:15:21.960 --> 0:15:25.000
<v Speaker 2>underneath the horse's hoof. There's a whole wonderland of weirdness.

0:15:25.320 --> 0:15:27.720
<v Speaker 3>Well, this is funny because we were just talking about beavers,

0:15:27.760 --> 0:15:31.240
<v Speaker 3>which apparently, you know, their scent glands and scent markings

0:15:31.240 --> 0:15:33.480
<v Speaker 3>play a big role in their their behavior and how

0:15:33.480 --> 0:15:36.920
<v Speaker 3>they interact with the environment. But I had no idea

0:15:37.000 --> 0:15:37.920
<v Speaker 3>that was true of horses.

0:15:38.320 --> 0:15:42.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Now, as we're discuss in a bit horse hoofs,

0:15:42.760 --> 0:15:45.720
<v Speaker 2>the hard part of the hoof grows throughout their life

0:15:45.760 --> 0:15:47.720
<v Speaker 2>and has to either be worn down or trim down.

0:15:48.160 --> 0:15:52.520
<v Speaker 2>This is where professional farriers come into play with domestic horses,

0:15:53.120 --> 0:15:56.360
<v Speaker 2>and not only do they have to trim the hoof

0:15:56.960 --> 0:15:59.400
<v Speaker 2>proper but they also have to trim the frog as

0:15:59.400 --> 0:16:02.200
<v Speaker 2>it keeps growing as well, and if not maintained, it

0:16:02.200 --> 0:16:05.400
<v Speaker 2>can lead to some infections conditions like thrush and so forth.

0:16:06.520 --> 0:16:08.560
<v Speaker 2>I'm also told by horse and dog people in my

0:16:08.640 --> 0:16:12.400
<v Speaker 2>family that dogs absolutely love it when their friendly neighborhood

0:16:12.400 --> 0:16:15.560
<v Speaker 2>ferry or gives them some hoof or some frog shavings

0:16:15.600 --> 0:16:19.280
<v Speaker 2>to eat. Joe, has this ever been your experience?

0:16:20.000 --> 0:16:23.360
<v Speaker 3>No, I never had a dog get this particular treat,

0:16:23.400 --> 0:16:40.240
<v Speaker 3>but I can imagine it's in the ballpark.

0:16:34.640 --> 0:16:36.840
<v Speaker 2>All right. So, moving outward from the frog, it pushes

0:16:36.880 --> 0:16:39.280
<v Speaker 2>against the digital cushion, and when the foot is on

0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:42.160
<v Speaker 2>the ground, the increase in pressure and change and shape

0:16:42.560 --> 0:16:44.720
<v Speaker 2>in the digital cushion and the frog. It kind of

0:16:44.720 --> 0:16:47.880
<v Speaker 2>works everything like a pump forcing blood from the foot

0:16:47.920 --> 0:16:51.840
<v Speaker 2>into the leg. And the clure stresses that quote exercise

0:16:51.880 --> 0:16:55.360
<v Speaker 2>increases the blood circulation in the foot and favors good

0:16:55.440 --> 0:16:59.360
<v Speaker 2>hoof growth. Lack of exercise, dryness of the horny wall,

0:16:59.760 --> 0:17:03.480
<v Speaker 2>and poor nutrition inhibit hoof growth. All right, So let's

0:17:03.520 --> 0:17:06.040
<v Speaker 2>get to that hoof wall. The hoof wall is exactly

0:17:06.080 --> 0:17:09.040
<v Speaker 2>what it sounds like. It's that tough, horny outside part

0:17:09.040 --> 0:17:12.040
<v Speaker 2>of the hoof that's essentially a fingernail. I mean, if

0:17:12.240 --> 0:17:14.919
<v Speaker 2>we're comparing it to what we've got going on, it

0:17:14.920 --> 0:17:18.400
<v Speaker 2>contains no blood, vessels or nerves, and it grows continuously,

0:17:18.440 --> 0:17:20.719
<v Speaker 2>so it has to be worn or trimmed off. And

0:17:20.760 --> 0:17:23.639
<v Speaker 2>to be specific, the hoof wall grows out of the

0:17:23.720 --> 0:17:27.560
<v Speaker 2>cornet located at the junction of the skin and the

0:17:27.600 --> 0:17:31.879
<v Speaker 2>hoof wall. So if you're just looking at a picture

0:17:32.000 --> 0:17:35.000
<v Speaker 2>of a horse's foot, like this is where hoof ends,

0:17:35.240 --> 0:17:38.640
<v Speaker 2>and like you know, the hairy part of the leg

0:17:38.800 --> 0:17:42.640
<v Speaker 2>begins now along with the frog and the bar which

0:17:42.680 --> 0:17:45.040
<v Speaker 2>is part of the wall aka bars of the wall

0:17:45.280 --> 0:17:49.119
<v Speaker 2>bordering the frog. It's a key weight bearing part of

0:17:49.119 --> 0:17:51.560
<v Speaker 2>the hoof. The wall is made up of the toe

0:17:51.640 --> 0:17:55.480
<v Speaker 2>in the front, quarters on the sides, and the heel. Now,

0:17:55.720 --> 0:17:59.320
<v Speaker 2>the interior of the hoof, inside the hoof wall, you

0:17:59.320 --> 0:18:00.960
<v Speaker 2>can almost think of, is kind of like this little

0:18:02.160 --> 0:18:07.240
<v Speaker 2>kind of U shaped walled city. Is the sole separated

0:18:07.280 --> 0:18:09.640
<v Speaker 2>from the wall by the white line or the golden

0:18:09.680 --> 0:18:13.560
<v Speaker 2>line where the inner wall and the sole joined together.

0:18:14.040 --> 0:18:16.560
<v Speaker 2>The soul does not make contact with the ground and

0:18:16.600 --> 0:18:20.960
<v Speaker 2>it primarily protects the inner structures beneath it. So these

0:18:21.000 --> 0:18:23.200
<v Speaker 2>are all you know, things, with the exception of the

0:18:23.520 --> 0:18:26.280
<v Speaker 2>digital cushion that we reference, like, these are all things

0:18:26.320 --> 0:18:29.280
<v Speaker 2>that you would see if you were a if you

0:18:29.320 --> 0:18:33.320
<v Speaker 2>were just attending to a horse's foot, if you you know,

0:18:33.680 --> 0:18:37.840
<v Speaker 2>we're checking out a horseshoe or what have you. Now, again,

0:18:37.880 --> 0:18:39.639
<v Speaker 2>the hoof is a complex structure, and I'm not going

0:18:39.680 --> 0:18:43.160
<v Speaker 2>to attempt to cover every detail of it. Instead, hopefully

0:18:43.480 --> 0:18:45.520
<v Speaker 2>we can cover the key parts of the internet or

0:18:45.520 --> 0:18:48.000
<v Speaker 2>hoof here and provide like a decent audio snapshot of

0:18:48.000 --> 0:18:50.199
<v Speaker 2>what it consists of. And I realize, even with all

0:18:50.200 --> 0:18:52.320
<v Speaker 2>the you know, the terminology we're going through, it still

0:18:52.640 --> 0:18:55.400
<v Speaker 2>might make sense to look up a diagram to see

0:18:55.400 --> 0:18:57.240
<v Speaker 2>exactly what we're talking about.

0:18:57.840 --> 0:18:58.119
<v Speaker 3>Now.

0:18:58.160 --> 0:19:02.480
<v Speaker 2>Internally, it's of course essential to over the phalanxes and phalanges,

0:19:02.600 --> 0:19:06.560
<v Speaker 2>essentially the finger bones that make up the hoof, and

0:19:07.080 --> 0:19:09.680
<v Speaker 2>the first of these to cover really is the famous

0:19:09.880 --> 0:19:14.719
<v Speaker 2>coffin bone, which is also known as the petal bone

0:19:15.000 --> 0:19:20.359
<v Speaker 2>or the distal phalanx or p three. It's contained in

0:19:20.400 --> 0:19:24.439
<v Speaker 2>the hoof capsule and provides its shape. It contains no

0:19:24.520 --> 0:19:26.439
<v Speaker 2>bone marrow, but it has a lot of blood vessels,

0:19:26.480 --> 0:19:28.320
<v Speaker 2>and the name apparently has to do with the fact

0:19:28.359 --> 0:19:31.760
<v Speaker 2>that it's entirely seated within the hoof wall, in the

0:19:31.760 --> 0:19:34.720
<v Speaker 2>interior of the hoof, as if it were positioned within

0:19:34.760 --> 0:19:37.680
<v Speaker 2>a coffin. It does not look like a coffin per se.

0:19:38.200 --> 0:19:40.679
<v Speaker 3>The fact that it seems to be positioned within a coffin,

0:19:40.720 --> 0:19:43.119
<v Speaker 3>shouldn't that make it the corpse bone rather than the

0:19:43.119 --> 0:19:45.480
<v Speaker 3>coffin bone or the cadaver bone, you.

0:19:45.400 --> 0:19:48.280
<v Speaker 2>Would think, you would think, I don't know. I couldn't

0:19:48.400 --> 0:19:51.840
<v Speaker 2>run down any additional information on where this comes from

0:19:51.920 --> 0:19:54.479
<v Speaker 2>other than just like you know, the built up lingo

0:19:54.720 --> 0:19:58.920
<v Speaker 2>of horse people over time. So if we have horse

0:19:58.920 --> 0:20:00.520
<v Speaker 2>people out there listening to the show that have more

0:20:00.560 --> 0:20:03.240
<v Speaker 2>insight on this, certainly right end, Oh, please be gentle.

0:20:06.119 --> 0:20:07.880
<v Speaker 2>We are used to working with horses. Of course they're

0:20:07.880 --> 0:20:11.000
<v Speaker 2>gonna they're gonna be gentle. Okay. Now, more broadly, the

0:20:11.080 --> 0:20:13.679
<v Speaker 2>pedal bone is the bottommost bone in the front and

0:20:13.760 --> 0:20:17.360
<v Speaker 2>rear legs of horses, cattle, pigs, and other ruminants. Then

0:20:17.400 --> 0:20:22.320
<v Speaker 2>there's the navicular bone, uh so named because it's shaped

0:20:22.320 --> 0:20:25.119
<v Speaker 2>like a boat, and looking at images of it, at

0:20:25.200 --> 0:20:27.840
<v Speaker 2>least from the horse, I thought it also reminds me

0:20:27.880 --> 0:20:31.800
<v Speaker 2>a bit of a whale's tail as well. But I'm

0:20:31.840 --> 0:20:34.000
<v Speaker 2>to understand. It's named this because it looks kind of

0:20:34.040 --> 0:20:37.800
<v Speaker 2>like a boat. It's also known as the distal sesamoid bone.

0:20:38.240 --> 0:20:42.800
<v Speaker 2>Most mammals have a navicular bone in their feet. Then

0:20:42.800 --> 0:20:46.280
<v Speaker 2>there's also the short pastern bone or middle phalanx. Its

0:20:46.320 --> 0:20:49.439
<v Speaker 2>positioned to top the articulating joint of the pedal bone,

0:20:50.160 --> 0:20:53.160
<v Speaker 2>with only the bottom portion extending to the hoof capsule,

0:20:53.600 --> 0:20:56.720
<v Speaker 2>essentially a fingerbone. So I don't know to what extent

0:20:56.800 --> 0:21:02.199
<v Speaker 2>all that accurately conveyed the complexity and the beauty of

0:21:02.240 --> 0:21:05.560
<v Speaker 2>a horse's hoof. Of a horse's foot, but I guess,

0:21:06.080 --> 0:21:08.480
<v Speaker 2>if anything, it should remind you like the horse hoof,

0:21:08.760 --> 0:21:12.480
<v Speaker 2>easy to draw, but far more complicated than you might think.

0:21:12.720 --> 0:21:14.800
<v Speaker 3>Well, another way to look at it is like if

0:21:14.840 --> 0:21:18.159
<v Speaker 3>you look up a diagram of the bones in the

0:21:18.160 --> 0:21:22.040
<v Speaker 3>horse's hoof, It's not just like a straight bone down

0:21:22.080 --> 0:21:24.320
<v Speaker 3>to the ground ending in a nail. There are actually

0:21:24.320 --> 0:21:27.520
<v Speaker 3>a lot of bones, little bones crammed up in there,

0:21:27.760 --> 0:21:29.200
<v Speaker 3>kind of in the same way that you would see

0:21:29.200 --> 0:21:31.800
<v Speaker 3>a lot of little bones making up the human hand,

0:21:32.240 --> 0:21:34.560
<v Speaker 3>except in the case of a horse, it has been

0:21:34.600 --> 0:21:39.800
<v Speaker 3>streamlined into one more continuous vertical structure or column, with

0:21:39.880 --> 0:21:42.320
<v Speaker 3>the different bones kind of supporting each other in that

0:21:42.400 --> 0:21:45.439
<v Speaker 3>column as opposed to in the hand the way these

0:21:45.480 --> 0:21:48.879
<v Speaker 3>bones are kind of fanned out. Yes, Now, Rob, before

0:21:48.920 --> 0:21:52.760
<v Speaker 3>we got recording today, you sent me a picture of

0:21:53.960 --> 0:21:57.719
<v Speaker 3>a famous horse from I was going to say history,

0:21:57.760 --> 0:22:00.480
<v Speaker 3>but maybe better to say legend. The meat point of

0:22:00.560 --> 0:22:05.560
<v Speaker 3>legend and history. That really revealed something to me, and

0:22:05.840 --> 0:22:09.520
<v Speaker 3>it's that there are certain features that are often quite

0:22:09.560 --> 0:22:14.720
<v Speaker 3>surprising to discover, are really unsettling to find on an animal.

0:22:14.760 --> 0:22:19.199
<v Speaker 3>One example is if you see human teeth on a

0:22:19.280 --> 0:22:22.119
<v Speaker 3>non human animal, like a cat with human teeth, somebody

0:22:22.119 --> 0:22:25.000
<v Speaker 3>photoshops that together. It's horrifying. You don't want to see it,

0:22:25.760 --> 0:22:29.439
<v Speaker 3>and it's kind of surprising how horrifying it is. And

0:22:29.640 --> 0:22:31.679
<v Speaker 3>I discovered a new one today when you shared this

0:22:31.720 --> 0:22:34.680
<v Speaker 3>picture with me, and it is a horse with human feet.

0:22:35.000 --> 0:22:37.800
<v Speaker 3>Don't like it. Something's unpleasant about that. It's not a

0:22:37.840 --> 0:22:39.119
<v Speaker 3>good vibe.

0:22:39.720 --> 0:22:43.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. This is an engraving from sixteen eighty seven, attributed

0:22:43.400 --> 0:22:46.760
<v Speaker 2>to P. Trocial. You can look this image up. I'll

0:22:46.800 --> 0:22:50.240
<v Speaker 2>have to share it on some of our socials or something,

0:22:50.280 --> 0:22:54.320
<v Speaker 2>because it's terrific and also a little bit horrifying because

0:22:54.359 --> 0:22:58.359
<v Speaker 2>the forefeet of the horse are human feet or something

0:22:58.359 --> 0:23:02.119
<v Speaker 2>close to human feet with with clearly visible multiple toes,

0:23:02.160 --> 0:23:06.400
<v Speaker 2>like five human toes per foot. It does not make

0:23:06.480 --> 0:23:08.920
<v Speaker 2>sense to look at This does not seem like a

0:23:10.119 --> 0:23:14.280
<v Speaker 2>good variation on the equine form. You know, it's not like, oh,

0:23:14.440 --> 0:23:17.200
<v Speaker 2>like a centaur where you can be like, well, it's

0:23:17.200 --> 0:23:18.800
<v Speaker 2>like a horse and a rider as one. You know,

0:23:18.840 --> 0:23:21.000
<v Speaker 2>you can run around, it can shoot arrows, that's great.

0:23:21.280 --> 0:23:23.600
<v Speaker 2>Like No, this is a situation where you're immediately thinking,

0:23:23.600 --> 0:23:27.000
<v Speaker 2>shouldn't those front feet and they have shoes on or something?

0:23:27.200 --> 0:23:29.800
<v Speaker 2>How is this force going to gallop? All sorts of

0:23:29.840 --> 0:23:31.280
<v Speaker 2>questions and problems emerge.

0:23:31.680 --> 0:23:34.119
<v Speaker 3>You're exactly right now, this is a cat with human teeth.

0:23:34.160 --> 0:23:36.320
<v Speaker 3>It doesn't look like it should work, and it doesn't

0:23:36.359 --> 0:23:39.400
<v Speaker 3>look nice. However, I will say other things about this horse,

0:23:39.440 --> 0:23:41.000
<v Speaker 3>and I guess in a minute we'll have to reveal

0:23:41.359 --> 0:23:44.560
<v Speaker 3>what historical horse this is supposed to be. But first,

0:23:44.600 --> 0:23:47.840
<v Speaker 3>just allow me to describe this is a hair metal horse.

0:23:47.960 --> 0:23:54.000
<v Speaker 3>It has a tail and domain that are luxurious, glorious,

0:23:54.160 --> 0:23:58.400
<v Speaker 3>voluminous hair just waving in the wind. You can imagine

0:23:58.880 --> 0:24:02.600
<v Speaker 3>this source really getting on a guitar solo, playing with

0:24:02.720 --> 0:24:06.679
<v Speaker 3>striper or something and then also, this horse has it

0:24:06.720 --> 0:24:11.280
<v Speaker 3>appears to me forward facing eyes horses. I don't know,

0:24:11.760 --> 0:24:13.640
<v Speaker 3>it doesn't quite get the horse face right.

0:24:14.000 --> 0:24:16.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I mean the artist was already having to draw

0:24:16.359 --> 0:24:18.440
<v Speaker 2>those feet on this horse, so I think we can

0:24:18.520 --> 0:24:21.320
<v Speaker 2>forgive them if they maybe didn't put a maximum amount

0:24:21.320 --> 0:24:22.399
<v Speaker 2>of effort into the face.

0:24:24.240 --> 0:24:26.680
<v Speaker 3>Oh. I'm not holding a grudge against p trocil here,

0:24:26.720 --> 0:24:30.199
<v Speaker 3>but forward facing eyes implies that this horse is a

0:24:30.240 --> 0:24:33.439
<v Speaker 3>predatory carnivore, which makes me think it is one of

0:24:33.440 --> 0:24:37.800
<v Speaker 3>the Diamedean mirrors or you know, the flesh eating mirrors

0:24:37.840 --> 0:24:38.840
<v Speaker 3>of ancient Greek legend.

0:24:39.640 --> 0:24:41.720
<v Speaker 2>It made me think too, of the horse that ucla

0:24:41.840 --> 0:24:44.639
<v Speaker 2>the mock Rides and thunder of the Barbarian if anyone

0:24:44.680 --> 0:24:46.800
<v Speaker 2>remembers that old Hanna Barbara cartoon.

0:24:47.160 --> 0:24:48.800
<v Speaker 3>I had to look that up when you said it,

0:24:48.840 --> 0:24:50.800
<v Speaker 3>I wasn't familiar. But that's like it's kind of a

0:24:51.720 --> 0:24:53.800
<v Speaker 3>dinosaur insectoid kind of horse.

0:24:54.200 --> 0:24:58.479
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, a monster horse, you see, especially, sort of like

0:24:58.760 --> 0:25:00.800
<v Speaker 2>some old timey side in fantasy.

0:25:01.000 --> 0:25:03.399
<v Speaker 3>But okay, what's the deal with this horse? Who is

0:25:03.400 --> 0:25:05.679
<v Speaker 3>this horse with human feed in the front.

0:25:06.240 --> 0:25:11.840
<v Speaker 2>This is none other than Julius Caesar's horse, sometimes referenced

0:25:11.840 --> 0:25:16.720
<v Speaker 2>by the name as Turkus or Astracus, but the horse's

0:25:16.840 --> 0:25:19.119
<v Speaker 2>actual name, whatever it might have been, seems to have

0:25:19.240 --> 0:25:21.919
<v Speaker 2>mostly been lost to history. I don't know that it

0:25:21.960 --> 0:25:25.560
<v Speaker 2>has a definite name. It's very much in the vein

0:25:25.720 --> 0:25:30.320
<v Speaker 2>in the tradition of say, Alexander the Great's horse Bucephalus,

0:25:31.600 --> 0:25:35.560
<v Speaker 2>that one's a more famous horse. That also ties back

0:25:35.600 --> 0:25:37.800
<v Speaker 2>in in a bit. This also tends to be part

0:25:37.800 --> 0:25:42.320
<v Speaker 2>of the general tradition in the Greco Roman culture of

0:25:42.359 --> 0:25:46.120
<v Speaker 2>having like a great leader riding a great steed into

0:25:46.160 --> 0:25:49.600
<v Speaker 2>battle that only they can mount, that is much loved,

0:25:50.160 --> 0:25:53.159
<v Speaker 2>that will of course eventually die and will be remembered

0:25:53.280 --> 0:25:56.679
<v Speaker 2>and so forth. But also there's this idea of like

0:25:56.760 --> 0:26:00.080
<v Speaker 2>a something strange about a horse. There's some sort of ay,

0:26:00.160 --> 0:26:04.359
<v Speaker 2>a portent of future success or in some cases dire

0:26:04.400 --> 0:26:07.919
<v Speaker 2>omens tied up in the strange anatomy of certain creatures,

0:26:08.000 --> 0:26:11.760
<v Speaker 2>especially the horse. But anyway, so where does this come from,

0:26:11.760 --> 0:26:15.560
<v Speaker 2>this idea that there's this this horse by according to

0:26:15.600 --> 0:26:20.439
<v Speaker 2>various sources, that had human feet in the front, or

0:26:20.480 --> 0:26:25.000
<v Speaker 2>it had some sort of toes in the front. I

0:26:25.040 --> 0:26:29.080
<v Speaker 2>had a time sort of trying to find any actual

0:26:29.480 --> 0:26:32.480
<v Speaker 2>source on this, but a lot of it comes back

0:26:32.520 --> 0:26:37.200
<v Speaker 2>to what the Roman imperial historian Sutanius had to say

0:26:37.240 --> 0:26:40.880
<v Speaker 2>about it. This particular historian lived sixty nine through one

0:26:41.040 --> 0:26:44.840
<v Speaker 2>twenty two CE. Here's what he wrote. Quote, he wrote,

0:26:44.880 --> 0:26:48.720
<v Speaker 2>a very remarkable horse, with feet almost like those of

0:26:48.760 --> 0:26:52.399
<v Speaker 2>a man, the hoofs being divided in such a manner

0:26:52.480 --> 0:26:56.280
<v Speaker 2>as to have some resemblance to toes. This horse he

0:26:56.320 --> 0:27:00.640
<v Speaker 2>had bred himself, and the soothsayers, having interpreted these scumstances

0:27:00.680 --> 0:27:03.639
<v Speaker 2>into an omen that its owner would be master of

0:27:03.680 --> 0:27:07.119
<v Speaker 2>the world. He brought him up with particular care and

0:27:07.240 --> 0:27:10.119
<v Speaker 2>broke him in himself, as the horse would suffer no

0:27:10.160 --> 0:27:13.040
<v Speaker 2>one else to mount him. A statue of the horse

0:27:13.119 --> 0:27:16.919
<v Speaker 2>was afterwards erected by Caesar's order before the temple of

0:27:17.080 --> 0:27:19.040
<v Speaker 2>Venus Genetrix. Ah.

0:27:19.080 --> 0:27:21.760
<v Speaker 3>That would be the temple of the Venus of motherhood,

0:27:21.960 --> 0:27:24.440
<v Speaker 3>the venus of the as the founder of the family.

0:27:25.200 --> 0:27:26.919
<v Speaker 3>I wonder what that would have to do with the horse.

0:27:27.359 --> 0:27:29.680
<v Speaker 2>Well, I guess maybe it has to do with with

0:27:29.720 --> 0:27:31.720
<v Speaker 2>like the rearing and the breaking of the horse, that

0:27:31.800 --> 0:27:33.920
<v Speaker 2>he's kind of like the mother of the horse. Maybe

0:27:33.920 --> 0:27:37.200
<v Speaker 2>it means a female horse. And I'm not sure exactly

0:27:37.520 --> 0:27:42.280
<v Speaker 2>why that particular temple interesting. So anyway, some illustrations, as

0:27:42.680 --> 0:27:46.359
<v Speaker 2>much like the one we've discussed already, depict this as

0:27:46.520 --> 0:27:49.399
<v Speaker 2>just a straight up monster horse with human feet in

0:27:49.440 --> 0:27:53.360
<v Speaker 2>the front, which I love. But a more reasonable interpretation

0:27:53.640 --> 0:27:56.520
<v Speaker 2>is that this was a polydactyl horse, much in the

0:27:56.560 --> 0:27:58.840
<v Speaker 2>same way that you will occasionally find you know, you'll find, say,

0:27:58.880 --> 0:28:03.119
<v Speaker 2>like a polydactyl cat, or of course polydactyl digits in

0:28:03.200 --> 0:28:07.640
<v Speaker 2>human beings as well. I found an eighteen seventy nine

0:28:07.680 --> 0:28:11.720
<v Speaker 2>paper on the general topic of polydactyl horses by o'thaniel

0:28:11.800 --> 0:28:17.040
<v Speaker 2>Charles Marsh titled Polydactyl Horse's Recent and Extinct. He writes, quote,

0:28:17.119 --> 0:28:20.080
<v Speaker 2>numerous cases of extra digits in the horse have been recorded,

0:28:20.400 --> 0:28:23.679
<v Speaker 2>and in nearly all of them, a single lateral hooflet

0:28:24.280 --> 0:28:27.600
<v Speaker 2>was present on one of the four legs. In most instances,

0:28:27.640 --> 0:28:30.960
<v Speaker 2>the occurrence was noted chiefly on account of its rarity,

0:28:31.200 --> 0:28:33.359
<v Speaker 2>and no record was made of the exact position of

0:28:33.359 --> 0:28:36.320
<v Speaker 2>the extra hoofs with reference to the main digit, nor

0:28:36.400 --> 0:28:38.960
<v Speaker 2>the significance of these useless appendages.

0:28:39.640 --> 0:28:41.920
<v Speaker 3>Oh okay, So the idea here would be that if

0:28:41.960 --> 0:28:45.160
<v Speaker 3>there is anything to the story that Swetonius tells about

0:28:45.720 --> 0:28:48.560
<v Speaker 3>Caesar's horse. It might be just that the horse did

0:28:48.560 --> 0:28:51.400
<v Speaker 3>actually have extra toes, not that it had feet that

0:28:51.480 --> 0:28:54.040
<v Speaker 3>looked like a human's feet, but that it was a

0:28:54.080 --> 0:28:57.560
<v Speaker 3>case of polydactyle in this horse exactly.

0:28:57.680 --> 0:29:00.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that seems to be like the more likely the interpretation.

0:29:02.520 --> 0:29:05.080
<v Speaker 2>It's also worth noting, I believe Marsh mentions this as well,

0:29:05.160 --> 0:29:08.880
<v Speaker 2>that some accounts may have indicated that Alexander the Great's

0:29:08.920 --> 0:29:13.680
<v Speaker 2>horse Bucephalus was also polydactyl, in which case, if that

0:29:13.880 --> 0:29:16.720
<v Speaker 2>was a you know, that was an idea already present

0:29:16.760 --> 0:29:20.520
<v Speaker 2>that would of course inform either the selection or interpretation

0:29:20.920 --> 0:29:24.720
<v Speaker 2>of a polydactyl horse for another great general. So you know,

0:29:24.720 --> 0:29:26.920
<v Speaker 2>we have to take that into account as well. And

0:29:26.960 --> 0:29:29.400
<v Speaker 2>again this general idea that if there's something strange going

0:29:29.400 --> 0:29:33.320
<v Speaker 2>on with a with an organism, there might be something

0:29:33.640 --> 0:29:38.240
<v Speaker 2>about it that is that is a beneficial importent for

0:29:38.360 --> 0:29:41.480
<v Speaker 2>the receiving individual. I believe we touched on one of

0:29:41.560 --> 0:29:46.440
<v Speaker 2>these stories regarding if not Caesar or another Roman emperor

0:29:46.480 --> 0:29:49.200
<v Speaker 2>in pre in episodes over the last couple of years,

0:29:49.240 --> 0:29:50.840
<v Speaker 2>and I don't think believe it was a horse. It

0:29:50.920 --> 0:29:53.760
<v Speaker 2>was some other animal that was brought before the general

0:29:53.800 --> 0:29:55.760
<v Speaker 2>and said hey, look at this weird creature and there

0:29:55.760 --> 0:29:59.320
<v Speaker 2>everyone was like, this is great. This means this means

0:29:59.320 --> 0:30:00.400
<v Speaker 2>the campaign going.

0:30:00.440 --> 0:30:02.960
<v Speaker 3>Well, okay, folks, we just had to take a second

0:30:02.960 --> 0:30:04.680
<v Speaker 3>to dig this up because it was too good of

0:30:04.680 --> 0:30:08.040
<v Speaker 3>a memory. No, this was something from our Goats episode,

0:30:08.160 --> 0:30:09.640
<v Speaker 3>right that we did last October.

0:30:10.080 --> 0:30:14.640
<v Speaker 2>That's right, right, Yeah, this concerned a goat creature that

0:30:14.760 --> 0:30:19.080
<v Speaker 2>was brought to Sola, and it was I think the

0:30:19.120 --> 0:30:21.640
<v Speaker 2>main interpretation was like, yeah, this is great, this is

0:30:21.680 --> 0:30:24.479
<v Speaker 2>a this is an omen this means that we're going

0:30:24.560 --> 0:30:27.440
<v Speaker 2>to be successful in the campaign.

0:30:27.760 --> 0:30:30.520
<v Speaker 3>It was like somebody found a half man, half goat

0:30:30.560 --> 0:30:32.920
<v Speaker 3>in a cave somewhere and then they're like, hey, look

0:30:32.920 --> 0:30:33.240
<v Speaker 3>at this.

0:30:33.680 --> 0:30:36.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it made horrible sounds, et cetera. So go back

0:30:36.240 --> 0:30:38.240
<v Speaker 2>and listen to that episode if you want the full

0:30:38.240 --> 0:30:41.280
<v Speaker 2>story on that, and just goats in general, the cloven

0:30:41.320 --> 0:30:42.360
<v Speaker 2>hoof as opposed to the.

0:30:42.280 --> 0:30:45.360
<v Speaker 4>Horse hoof, that feeling when you find a goat man

0:30:45.440 --> 0:30:47.800
<v Speaker 4>in a cave and you know everything's going to be

0:30:47.800 --> 0:31:04.280
<v Speaker 4>all right.

0:30:57.800 --> 0:31:00.400
<v Speaker 2>All right, anyway, back to back to Marsh here, Marsh

0:31:00.440 --> 0:31:03.600
<v Speaker 2>noted that and I didn't look for other sources on this,

0:31:03.680 --> 0:31:06.680
<v Speaker 2>but it kind of casually he mentions that the indigenous

0:31:06.720 --> 0:31:09.719
<v Speaker 2>peoples of the Americas were said to have described the

0:31:09.720 --> 0:31:13.560
<v Speaker 2>horse when the Spanish arrived as the beast with one fingernail,

0:31:13.760 --> 0:31:19.760
<v Speaker 2>which of course is rather correct as as we've been discussing.

0:31:20.080 --> 0:31:21.960
<v Speaker 2>And then Marsh goes on to point out that there

0:31:22.000 --> 0:31:25.800
<v Speaker 2>are two slender splint bones within the hoof, the remnants

0:31:25.840 --> 0:31:28.560
<v Speaker 2>of two other toes belonging to the ancestors of the

0:31:28.600 --> 0:31:32.120
<v Speaker 2>modern horse. Now Marsh points out a few other key

0:31:32.160 --> 0:31:35.640
<v Speaker 2>facts that I think are worth mentioning here. The forefeet

0:31:35.720 --> 0:31:38.760
<v Speaker 2>are the most affected. When you look at accounts in

0:31:38.840 --> 0:31:43.800
<v Speaker 2>the records of polydactyl horses, it's almost always the fore feet,

0:31:44.000 --> 0:31:46.280
<v Speaker 2>and of course this would match up with the story

0:31:46.600 --> 0:31:51.720
<v Speaker 2>of Caesar's horse. Also, the additional hooves or if you

0:31:51.720 --> 0:31:54.440
<v Speaker 2>want to call them, toes, seem to generally amount to

0:31:54.640 --> 0:31:58.320
<v Speaker 2>one or two, so you're maybe looking at three toes

0:31:58.480 --> 0:32:03.080
<v Speaker 2>maximum on a four on a front hoof, though it's

0:32:03.120 --> 0:32:06.560
<v Speaker 2>not necessarily an equal amount on both four feet, so

0:32:06.680 --> 0:32:10.000
<v Speaker 2>like one there's a for instance, there's an account that

0:32:10.040 --> 0:32:13.040
<v Speaker 2>he points to where an animal had two hooves on

0:32:13.040 --> 0:32:15.840
<v Speaker 2>one and three on the other, so one extra on

0:32:15.840 --> 0:32:19.520
<v Speaker 2>one four foot and two extra on the other four

0:32:19.560 --> 0:32:22.440
<v Speaker 2>foot some of the horses, and this is English. This

0:32:22.480 --> 0:32:26.280
<v Speaker 2>is not getting into you know, in any translations here,

0:32:26.320 --> 0:32:28.840
<v Speaker 2>but in English, some of these were described as having

0:32:29.080 --> 0:32:32.320
<v Speaker 2>eight hooves or the like, thus counting all of the

0:32:32.360 --> 0:32:35.480
<v Speaker 2>hoofs on the animal. So this is just me, but

0:32:35.600 --> 0:32:38.920
<v Speaker 2>I can imagine first of all, a three toed four

0:32:39.000 --> 0:32:42.040
<v Speaker 2>foot reminding one of a human foot, looking at it

0:32:42.080 --> 0:32:43.680
<v Speaker 2>and being like, oh, it's kind of like toes. Look

0:32:43.680 --> 0:32:47.360
<v Speaker 2>there are three of them. I can likewise imagine some

0:32:47.560 --> 0:32:52.000
<v Speaker 2>manner of telephone game deviation occurring when describing a horse

0:32:52.400 --> 0:32:55.280
<v Speaker 2>and saying, oh, it had it had five toes. Well,

0:32:55.400 --> 0:32:56.720
<v Speaker 2>what do you mean by that? Do you mean that

0:32:56.760 --> 0:32:59.560
<v Speaker 2>it just has a single extra hooflet on one of

0:32:59.600 --> 0:33:02.760
<v Speaker 2>its four feet. That would be a reasonable case, I think,

0:33:03.040 --> 0:33:05.480
<v Speaker 2>based on what I've been reading here, Or are you

0:33:05.480 --> 0:33:07.520
<v Speaker 2>going to interpret that as oh, well that means it

0:33:07.560 --> 0:33:12.080
<v Speaker 2>has five hooves or five toes to a foot something

0:33:12.120 --> 0:33:15.520
<v Speaker 2>that is too extreme based on what I've been looking at.

0:33:15.840 --> 0:33:18.560
<v Speaker 3>I see what you mean. But like the statement about

0:33:18.640 --> 0:33:22.240
<v Speaker 3>having total across the animal could be interpreted as on

0:33:22.240 --> 0:33:23.520
<v Speaker 3>one one leg.

0:33:24.080 --> 0:33:27.320
<v Speaker 2>Right, Yeah, that's so that's anyway that's me thinking about it.

0:33:27.400 --> 0:33:30.920
<v Speaker 2>Marsh't didn't discuss that idea, but it just has me

0:33:31.000 --> 0:33:32.720
<v Speaker 2>wondering if that's the sort of thing that could be

0:33:32.760 --> 0:33:35.160
<v Speaker 2>going on here as well. Now, there are plenty of

0:33:35.240 --> 0:33:38.960
<v Speaker 2>recent accounts of polydactyl horse hoofs and photos. Of course,

0:33:39.000 --> 0:33:41.040
<v Speaker 2>you can do an image search and you can find

0:33:41.080 --> 0:33:46.000
<v Speaker 2>images of horses that have additional hooves or hooflits or

0:33:46.040 --> 0:33:48.760
<v Speaker 2>toes or whatever you want to call them. Most accounts

0:33:48.800 --> 0:33:51.600
<v Speaker 2>I came across of, in terms of like veterinary literature,

0:33:51.960 --> 0:33:55.520
<v Speaker 2>dealt with congenital abnormalities that were at least in some

0:33:55.560 --> 0:34:00.120
<v Speaker 2>cases surgically corrected. So yeah, this is I guess in

0:34:00.360 --> 0:34:03.200
<v Speaker 2>the horse world. These are rare enough to be notable,

0:34:03.520 --> 0:34:07.480
<v Speaker 2>but certainly not so rare that they are unknown, So

0:34:07.720 --> 0:34:11.359
<v Speaker 2>it's not beyond the realm of possibility. It seems that yes,

0:34:12.040 --> 0:34:17.000
<v Speaker 2>Caesar may have had a polydactyl horse, acquired a polydactyl horse,

0:34:18.960 --> 0:34:22.040
<v Speaker 2>or it's also equally likely that this is just all

0:34:22.080 --> 0:34:24.920
<v Speaker 2>you know, legend building in order to build up the

0:34:24.920 --> 0:34:28.480
<v Speaker 2>case that hey, Caesar is a lot like that guy

0:34:28.520 --> 0:34:31.680
<v Speaker 2>Alexander the Great. Both of them rode around undeformed horses,

0:34:32.160 --> 0:34:33.920
<v Speaker 2>both of them were destined for greatness.

0:34:34.120 --> 0:34:36.080
<v Speaker 3>Now, you mentioned a minute ago when you were citing

0:34:36.160 --> 0:34:40.680
<v Speaker 3>the paleontologist Othneil Charles Marsh that he had written that

0:34:41.920 --> 0:34:45.000
<v Speaker 3>horses have these little splint bones within the hoof, which

0:34:45.040 --> 0:34:50.120
<v Speaker 3>he attributed to being remnants of other toes that used

0:34:50.160 --> 0:34:54.080
<v Speaker 3>to belong to the ancestors of horses today. And it

0:34:54.120 --> 0:34:57.640
<v Speaker 3>turns out that's actually onto something. Because I was reading

0:34:57.800 --> 0:35:00.160
<v Speaker 3>some stuff about the evolution of the horse hoof. This

0:35:00.200 --> 0:35:02.840
<v Speaker 3>is an interesting and broad topic that's going to have

0:35:02.880 --> 0:35:05.520
<v Speaker 3>to span into the next part in the series, but

0:35:05.719 --> 0:35:08.120
<v Speaker 3>just to introduce a bit of it here, I was

0:35:08.120 --> 0:35:10.680
<v Speaker 3>looking at an article in The New York Times called

0:35:10.760 --> 0:35:14.840
<v Speaker 3>How Horses Got their hoofs by steph Ynn, published August

0:35:14.880 --> 0:35:18.560
<v Speaker 3>twenty eighth, twenty seventeen. Now, this article is mainly responding

0:35:18.600 --> 0:35:22.120
<v Speaker 3>to a journal article that was published in Proceedings of

0:35:22.120 --> 0:35:26.160
<v Speaker 3>the Royal Society b Biological Sciences in twenty seventeen by

0:35:26.280 --> 0:35:32.960
<v Speaker 3>authors Brionna K. Mccurse Good research focus there, Andrew A.

0:35:33.320 --> 0:35:36.440
<v Speaker 3>Bee Winner and Stephanie E. Pierce, And the paper is

0:35:36.440 --> 0:35:41.120
<v Speaker 3>called Mechanics of Evolutionary digit Reduction in Fossil Horses meaning

0:35:41.200 --> 0:35:45.520
<v Speaker 3>the biological family equity. Now, what this journal article did

0:35:45.719 --> 0:35:50.160
<v Speaker 3>is it added some evidence to comment on the long

0:35:50.160 --> 0:35:54.560
<v Speaker 3>held hypothetical story of horse hoof evolution, which is based

0:35:54.600 --> 0:35:58.480
<v Speaker 3>somewhat on fossil evidence and inferences from other sources. But basically,

0:35:58.520 --> 0:36:01.400
<v Speaker 3>the story that experts have long believed goes something like this,

0:36:01.640 --> 0:36:06.359
<v Speaker 3>that the earliest horses were small, much smaller than horses today.

0:36:06.360 --> 0:36:09.759
<v Speaker 3>They were sort of dog sized animals that lived in

0:36:09.920 --> 0:36:13.640
<v Speaker 3>forested areas, and they had multiple toes per foot, So

0:36:13.680 --> 0:36:16.160
<v Speaker 3>you have to imagine like small, little, you know, doggy

0:36:16.239 --> 0:36:19.799
<v Speaker 3>horses that had at least three toes per foot I

0:36:19.800 --> 0:36:22.080
<v Speaker 3>think maybe four toes on their front legs and three

0:36:22.120 --> 0:36:25.320
<v Speaker 3>toes on their back legs. And then came some climate

0:36:25.400 --> 0:36:30.080
<v Speaker 3>change about twenty million years ago. Some of these horses

0:36:30.160 --> 0:36:35.319
<v Speaker 3>were living in previously forested habitats that changed into grasslands

0:36:35.360 --> 0:36:39.960
<v Speaker 3>and plains. The disappearance of forests and the transition to

0:36:40.040 --> 0:36:45.239
<v Speaker 3>grassland environments put different adaptive pressures on these herbivorous, four

0:36:45.320 --> 0:36:48.040
<v Speaker 3>legged animals. And you might imagine there could be a

0:36:48.040 --> 0:36:51.040
<v Speaker 3>lot of different pressures there. But one example would be

0:36:51.320 --> 0:36:52.920
<v Speaker 3>if you're not in a forest, if you're in a

0:36:52.920 --> 0:36:56.319
<v Speaker 3>grassland instead, it is a lot easier for predators to

0:36:56.400 --> 0:36:59.399
<v Speaker 3>see you it's harder to hide, and so this could

0:36:59.520 --> 0:37:03.839
<v Speaker 3>drive the evolution of larger bodies as a defensive adaptation,

0:37:04.160 --> 0:37:06.719
<v Speaker 3>you need to make it easier to defend yourself. And

0:37:06.800 --> 0:37:10.200
<v Speaker 3>it could also lead to selection for speed in order

0:37:10.239 --> 0:37:13.800
<v Speaker 3>to be able to evade predators, and so the story goes.

0:37:13.920 --> 0:37:17.520
<v Speaker 3>For some reason, this shift to becoming an animal that

0:37:17.560 --> 0:37:22.280
<v Speaker 3>needed to be both big and fast caused the selection

0:37:22.600 --> 0:37:26.440
<v Speaker 3>of the single toe for the contact point with the ground,

0:37:26.520 --> 0:37:29.439
<v Speaker 3>as opposed to the previous version of this animal, which

0:37:29.480 --> 0:37:32.160
<v Speaker 3>had had multiple toes per foot. Now, the authors of

0:37:32.200 --> 0:37:36.640
<v Speaker 3>the study investigated this hypothetical evolutionary trajectory by analyzing leg

0:37:36.680 --> 0:37:40.359
<v Speaker 3>fossils from twelve different types of horses over evolutionary time,

0:37:40.440 --> 0:37:42.800
<v Speaker 3>going back as far as fifty five million years ago,

0:37:43.160 --> 0:37:46.440
<v Speaker 3>all the way up to modern horses. And the researchers

0:37:46.480 --> 0:37:50.640
<v Speaker 3>had previously investigated the different types of physical stress put

0:37:50.680 --> 0:37:54.600
<v Speaker 3>on horse legs by various types of normal behaviors like

0:37:54.640 --> 0:37:58.239
<v Speaker 3>trotting around, jumping, or speeding up into a run, and

0:37:58.480 --> 0:38:02.240
<v Speaker 3>using this information about the physical stresses on horse legs,

0:38:02.239 --> 0:38:05.600
<v Speaker 3>they created a model of how these activities would put

0:38:05.640 --> 0:38:08.000
<v Speaker 3>stress on the legs of the horse and then tested

0:38:08.040 --> 0:38:11.839
<v Speaker 3>that model against different forms of the horse's foot with

0:38:12.239 --> 0:38:15.399
<v Speaker 3>different numbers of toes, and what they found was that

0:38:15.440 --> 0:38:19.120
<v Speaker 3>when horses were smaller and also had multiple toes contacting

0:38:19.160 --> 0:38:23.000
<v Speaker 3>the ground, the extra digits were actually important for carrying

0:38:23.040 --> 0:38:26.400
<v Speaker 3>the weight of the body. Body weight was distributed across

0:38:26.480 --> 0:38:30.160
<v Speaker 3>multiple toes, but as horses got bigger, the toes on

0:38:30.280 --> 0:38:35.280
<v Speaker 3>the sides began to shrink and essentially disappeared as distinct digits,

0:38:35.360 --> 0:38:38.640
<v Speaker 3>leaving only the single middle toe and the middle finger

0:38:38.760 --> 0:38:42.000
<v Speaker 3>hit in the ground as the single mighty hoof. This

0:38:42.080 --> 0:38:44.840
<v Speaker 3>is the lone contact point with the earth now, so

0:38:44.920 --> 0:38:48.000
<v Speaker 3>it seems pretty clear that this is the trajectory that

0:38:48.120 --> 0:38:53.120
<v Speaker 3>happened over the evolutionary history of horses or horses, zebras,

0:38:53.120 --> 0:38:58.040
<v Speaker 3>and donkeys. But why did the side toes disappear? This

0:38:58.080 --> 0:39:01.600
<v Speaker 3>study in particular does not answer that definitively, but in

0:39:01.640 --> 0:39:04.280
<v Speaker 3>the New York Times article they interviewed the lead author

0:39:04.320 --> 0:39:09.319
<v Speaker 3>breonn and mccorse, and she suggested that maybe it's that

0:39:09.560 --> 0:39:12.480
<v Speaker 3>having just a single toe made it easier for the

0:39:12.520 --> 0:39:16.719
<v Speaker 3>horses to move their feet more quickly, using the comparison

0:39:16.760 --> 0:39:19.319
<v Speaker 3>of like trying to run with ankle weights on or

0:39:19.800 --> 0:39:21.719
<v Speaker 3>I think of the experience of trying to run in

0:39:21.800 --> 0:39:24.160
<v Speaker 3>heavy boots, which I've done. It's very difficult to do.

0:39:24.640 --> 0:39:26.680
<v Speaker 3>You know, running shoes tend to be very lightweight.

0:39:28.440 --> 0:39:29.120
<v Speaker 2>That's a good point.

0:39:29.680 --> 0:39:32.200
<v Speaker 3>And one thing this does highlight is the kind of

0:39:32.280 --> 0:39:37.080
<v Speaker 3>paradox of the behavior, the graceful behavior of the horse.

0:39:37.280 --> 0:39:41.920
<v Speaker 3>It is like strange to observe how graceful and quick

0:39:42.080 --> 0:39:46.000
<v Speaker 3>horses are given their size. Though I would like to

0:39:46.040 --> 0:39:48.920
<v Speaker 3>point out that while horses are sort of a peak

0:39:49.040 --> 0:39:53.120
<v Speaker 3>example of this, I'm often struck by the shocking speed

0:39:53.200 --> 0:39:56.200
<v Speaker 3>and grace of even much more modest displays by animals

0:39:56.239 --> 0:39:59.920
<v Speaker 3>like bovines. Like have you ever seen a cow just

0:40:00.000 --> 0:40:02.719
<v Speaker 3>suddenly jump over a fence and it didn't look at

0:40:02.800 --> 0:40:05.279
<v Speaker 3>all like that was something that could happen until you

0:40:05.320 --> 0:40:07.040
<v Speaker 3>saw it. Do you know what I'm talking about?

0:40:07.160 --> 0:40:07.319
<v Speaker 4>Oh?

0:40:07.480 --> 0:40:11.319
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean especially with cattle, because a lot of

0:40:11.320 --> 0:40:13.920
<v Speaker 2>times they do appear to be not moving a lot,

0:40:13.960 --> 0:40:17.240
<v Speaker 2>but when they do move, it can be kind of shocking.

0:40:17.560 --> 0:40:20.719
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, cows can look like four footed barges, like they

0:40:20.719 --> 0:40:22.960
<v Speaker 3>should not be able to move at anything other than

0:40:23.040 --> 0:40:26.120
<v Speaker 3>kind of a shuffle, But then suddenly you see them

0:40:26.239 --> 0:40:28.239
<v Speaker 3>leap over a fence or something like that. And now,

0:40:28.239 --> 0:40:30.560
<v Speaker 3>of course, cows, as a reminder, are not single toed

0:40:30.640 --> 0:40:33.680
<v Speaker 3>ungulates like horses. Cows have two toes per foot, and

0:40:33.680 --> 0:40:37.319
<v Speaker 3>they got the hoofs on the two toes. But yeah,

0:40:37.520 --> 0:40:41.080
<v Speaker 3>so you multiply that to an even greater extent with horses.

0:40:41.360 --> 0:40:43.359
<v Speaker 3>When you actually see them up close and see how

0:40:43.400 --> 0:40:46.719
<v Speaker 3>big the animal is and then how fast and gracefully

0:40:46.760 --> 0:40:49.759
<v Speaker 3>it moves, something seems like wrong. It's like how is

0:40:49.800 --> 0:40:53.319
<v Speaker 3>it doing this? And it's quite it seems quite likely

0:40:53.520 --> 0:40:57.000
<v Speaker 3>that the single toed point of contact with the ground

0:40:57.400 --> 0:41:00.600
<v Speaker 3>is part of that equation that is how the horses possible.

0:41:00.800 --> 0:41:03.640
<v Speaker 2>You know, I think this might touch on another reason

0:41:03.880 --> 0:41:07.319
<v Speaker 2>that in literature and like culture in general, there's less

0:41:07.800 --> 0:41:11.080
<v Speaker 2>focus on how weird the hoof is and more just

0:41:11.160 --> 0:41:14.560
<v Speaker 2>on like the majesty of the horse. Because yeah, watching

0:41:14.920 --> 0:41:17.040
<v Speaker 2>like the sum total of all of this, watching a

0:41:17.120 --> 0:41:21.960
<v Speaker 2>horse run, it's enthralling, Like it's it's hard to imagine,

0:41:22.480 --> 0:41:25.839
<v Speaker 2>like riding along in a car and someone like saying, hey,

0:41:25.880 --> 0:41:27.759
<v Speaker 2>look look over there, those horses in that field are

0:41:27.840 --> 0:41:30.000
<v Speaker 2>running and being like, ah, I'm good. I don't need

0:41:30.040 --> 0:41:31.719
<v Speaker 2>to see that. No, of course you want to see that.

0:41:31.760 --> 0:41:33.960
<v Speaker 2>There's just something about it. I don't know, you know,

0:41:34.000 --> 0:41:36.560
<v Speaker 2>how much of it is just the the majesty of

0:41:36.600 --> 0:41:38.600
<v Speaker 2>the creature itself, how much of it is like the

0:41:39.360 --> 0:41:44.359
<v Speaker 2>historical and cultural weight of horses. But you know, it's

0:41:44.400 --> 0:41:47.400
<v Speaker 2>like they fascinated us. They've always fascinated us, you know,

0:41:47.520 --> 0:41:51.760
<v Speaker 2>since since time out of mind, since you know, before

0:41:51.840 --> 0:41:54.279
<v Speaker 2>our ability to even scrawl them roughly on a on

0:41:54.320 --> 0:41:55.200
<v Speaker 2>a cavern wall.

0:41:55.560 --> 0:41:57.759
<v Speaker 3>I'm not even one of those horse people, you know,

0:41:57.800 --> 0:42:00.799
<v Speaker 3>they're like horse people and the non horse I'm a

0:42:00.840 --> 0:42:03.960
<v Speaker 3>non horse person. But when I let myself be amazed,

0:42:04.520 --> 0:42:06.680
<v Speaker 3>they are amazing. I guess this is what it's like

0:42:06.800 --> 0:42:08.640
<v Speaker 3>twenty four to seven to be a horse person.

0:42:09.560 --> 0:42:11.759
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I mean, and again I'm not like if you

0:42:11.760 --> 0:42:13.120
<v Speaker 2>asked me, hey, do you want to ride a horse

0:42:13.160 --> 0:42:16.080
<v Speaker 2>this afternoon, I would probably say no, thank I'm good.

0:42:16.520 --> 0:42:18.160
<v Speaker 2>I did it once. I'm fine. It's not my thing.

0:42:18.480 --> 0:42:20.240
<v Speaker 2>But again, if you were to point out the window

0:42:20.280 --> 0:42:22.160
<v Speaker 2>and say, hey, there's some horses running, would you like

0:42:22.239 --> 0:42:23.800
<v Speaker 2>to slow the car down and take a look at this,

0:42:23.840 --> 0:42:28.320
<v Speaker 2>I would say yes, please, let's watch, because watching horses

0:42:28.400 --> 0:42:29.360
<v Speaker 2>that's more my speed.

0:42:29.600 --> 0:42:31.160
<v Speaker 3>Okay, well, I think we're going to have to cap

0:42:31.280 --> 0:42:33.400
<v Speaker 3>Part one of this series there, but we will be

0:42:33.480 --> 0:42:35.600
<v Speaker 3>back to talk about the hoofs some more. I know

0:42:35.719 --> 0:42:38.960
<v Speaker 3>we have plenty more questions and ideas to get into

0:42:39.120 --> 0:42:42.520
<v Speaker 3>about the evolution of horse hoofs. And also we want

0:42:42.560 --> 0:42:45.080
<v Speaker 3>to talk about the invention of the horseshoe.

0:42:45.440 --> 0:42:50.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, because that is a key invention in the

0:42:50.480 --> 0:42:54.600
<v Speaker 2>human relationship with the horse. And also I think understanding

0:42:54.600 --> 0:42:56.839
<v Speaker 2>the horseshoe helps us understand the hoof a little bit

0:42:56.840 --> 0:42:59.160
<v Speaker 2>more as well. In the meantime, if you have anything

0:42:59.160 --> 0:43:01.399
<v Speaker 2>you'd like to ride in and share with us about

0:43:01.400 --> 0:43:04.920
<v Speaker 2>a horses of their relatives, anything in general about hoofs

0:43:05.760 --> 0:43:09.880
<v Speaker 2>or horse like steeds in fantasy and science fiction, everything's

0:43:09.920 --> 0:43:13.680
<v Speaker 2>fair game. We'll share that email address in just a minute.

0:43:14.040 --> 0:43:15.920
<v Speaker 2>But in the meantime, you can also check out other

0:43:15.920 --> 0:43:17.360
<v Speaker 2>episodes of Stuff to Blow Your Mind and the Stuff to

0:43:17.360 --> 0:43:19.879
<v Speaker 2>Blow Your Mind podcast feed wherever you get your podcasts.

0:43:20.040 --> 0:43:24.040
<v Speaker 2>Core episodes on Tuesdays and Thursdays, Listener Mail on Mondays.

0:43:24.040 --> 0:43:26.440
<v Speaker 2>On Wednesdays we do a short form artifact or monster

0:43:26.480 --> 0:43:28.760
<v Speaker 2>fact episode, and on Fridays we set aside most serious

0:43:28.800 --> 0:43:30.520
<v Speaker 2>concerns to just talk about a weird movie.

0:43:30.640 --> 0:43:34.719
<v Speaker 3>On Weird House Cinema huge thanks to our excellent audio producer,

0:43:34.920 --> 0:43:37.600
<v Speaker 3>JJ Posway. If you would like to get in touch

0:43:37.640 --> 0:43:39.839
<v Speaker 3>with us with feedback on this episode or any other,

0:43:39.960 --> 0:43:42.080
<v Speaker 3>to suggest a topic for the future, or just to

0:43:42.120 --> 0:43:45.239
<v Speaker 3>say hello, you can email us at contact Stuff to

0:43:45.280 --> 0:43:54.200
<v Speaker 3>Blow Your Mind dot com.

0:43:54.280 --> 0:43:57.239
<v Speaker 1>Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For

0:43:57.320 --> 0:44:00.000
<v Speaker 1>more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

0:44:00.239 --> 0:44:14.480
<v Speaker 1>Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.