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Speaker 1: This is the Meat Eater podcast coming at you shirtless,

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Speaker 1: severely bug bitten and in my case, underwear. Listening to

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Speaker 1: Hunt Don't Meet You Eat podcast. You can't predict that anything.

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Speaker 1: All right, Jimmy Dorn's here. Can we see what you

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Speaker 1: do the pizza guy? Any questions to come up? Now?

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Speaker 1: Jimmy was just being a good friend and drop by

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Speaker 1: now here. He is sitting in We ate some fantastic pizza,

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Speaker 1: did we ever? Man, Well you're welcome. What's it called.

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Speaker 1: It's called Belltown Pizza, downtown Seattle, Belltown. Yeah. Well Jimmy

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Speaker 1: does all that pepperoni and all that every it's all

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Speaker 1: wolf meat. That's it. It's ground up. He grounds up

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Speaker 1: his own wolf meat. Still called the health department. So

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Speaker 1: any pizza, any piece of questions? Any went here as

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Speaker 1: tofer him over to Mr Dornan. Also, you had you

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Speaker 1: had a big year. I had a fantastic year, big year,

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Speaker 1: very big here. Yeah, best ever So I'm relatively new

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Speaker 1: Hunter definitely this year was took the cake. I'm a

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Speaker 1: little worried. Next, you're not in pizza sale, No, No,

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Speaker 1: just American elbow greaseman, just running his business, getting out there,

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Speaker 1: mixing it up, getting a lot of a lot of

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Speaker 1: excellent big game hunts. Yes, very good, very fortunately wears

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Speaker 1: a meat eater T shirt. That's it in the mediator

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Speaker 1: T shirt smell lucky charn or he carries in his

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Speaker 1: backpack and he's kind enough to take pholdo himself with it.

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Speaker 1: Maybe it depends on how bad it stinks on day four.

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Speaker 1: No tearing it up. Yeah, no, fantastic. Yeah. Two mule

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Speaker 1: deer and an elk when a mule deer in Central

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Speaker 1: Oregon elk in the Missouri River breaks in Montana and uh,

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Speaker 1: and then shot a really nice elk by Fossil and

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Speaker 1: Central Oregon. Great stuffy. And then you got some doves.

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Speaker 1: Shot a few doves you know. Um, we had some

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Speaker 1: of those doves for Thanksgiving dinner. You're welcome. Some people

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Speaker 1: kept calling them little turkeys, little turkeys because we did

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Speaker 1: the whole right. Because my wife I was complaining of

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Speaker 1: Thanksgiving because seldom do we eat turkey on Thanksgiving? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: kind of like we just like cook you save up

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Speaker 1: like good stuff, so do you ever? Thanksgiving we had

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Speaker 1: hooligans or candlefish, king salmon, halibit uh moose smelt met

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Speaker 1: in morning doves, and because people like Gripe, my brother

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Speaker 1: Matt and my wife bitch about the lack of a turkey.

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Speaker 1: So I plucked those morning doves and cooked my little

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Speaker 1: mini turkeys and it did look like little mini turkeys. Man,

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Speaker 1: it was cute. But everybody got their own little turkey. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I did that A piece there turkey. Yeah, it was

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Speaker 1: a step in the right direction. And normally I don't

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Speaker 1: even few the normal sides. Like last year we did

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Speaker 1: was called a mixed boil, you know, which is like

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Speaker 1: all kind of boiled vegetables. And but this year we

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Speaker 1: had all the normal sides. A matter of fact that

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Speaker 1: you know that mash potato we're eating last night, that

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Speaker 1: ships from Thanksgiving? That's old. Still it was good. So

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Speaker 1: that was just mat just like a cream mash mash yams.

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Speaker 1: But I mean, think of how old that is, How

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Speaker 1: long ago is Thanksgiving? Just been sitting in my fridge

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Speaker 1: a couple of weeks. You don't feel sick at all, Dude,

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Speaker 1: you'll be heading for the door. Hey, you know a

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Speaker 1: lot of here's this. I'm not glad you're here. Um

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Speaker 1: is that is mashed patoes? Like pretty stable? I would

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Speaker 1: say it last a while when I was in college,

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Speaker 1: I needed a couple of weeks in I don't know now,

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Speaker 1: would be about a week probably when you were because

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Speaker 1: you're in the commercial food business, are you, um, are

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Speaker 1: the guidelines likely? The guidelines are probably like, we'reridiculously safe,

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Speaker 1: right they are this proper holding temperashure, stuff like that,

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Speaker 1: proper refrigeration, making sure you know you don't want to

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Speaker 1: get in. Does it feel extreme? Ors it feel reasonable?

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Speaker 1: It's totally reasonable. Yeah. Something with potatoes. When I worked

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Speaker 1: at a restaurant to get a ski pass for a while,

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Speaker 1: we serve baked potatoes. They're wrapped in aluminium oil, and

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Speaker 1: there was a strict, hard fast rule that you could

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Speaker 1: not take those potatoes home. Like they're very worried about that,

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Speaker 1: and maybe because it was just because the aluminium oil

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Speaker 1: would hold it in that like danger zone too long

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Speaker 1: could be And what is it that you would get

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Speaker 1: from uh potato like that? I have no idea. I

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Speaker 1: don't know in case it's spending a lot of time

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Speaker 1: in the bathroom other than I'm not really sure. Because

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Speaker 1: I read something not too long ago about potato salad

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Speaker 1: because everybody thinks that's got mayo and ship. No, it's

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Speaker 1: not the mayo, which the potatoes. It's actually yea son.

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Speaker 1: Potatoes grow back tia really quickly, especially combined with the mayo,

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Speaker 1: And so it's the potatoes that are the problem, not

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Speaker 1: the mayo itself. Oh yeah, I always thought it was

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Speaker 1: the mayo too. Of course it's mayo because that stuff

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Speaker 1: gets nasty. But it's the potatoes. You're gonna get sick

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Speaker 1: for those mash those weeks old mash cats. That was

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Speaker 1: weighing in with the Voice of Reason on tatoes was Ron,

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Speaker 1: give us your last name? How you sounded out? I

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Speaker 1: struggled with that one. Everyone struggles with it. You got

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Speaker 1: it on the on the front of your new book,

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Speaker 1: Traditional bow Hunters Path. That's not a King of the

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Speaker 1: Mountain will pants you're wearing, is it? No, it's not

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Speaker 1: King of the Mountain Remember that company? Yeah? I love

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Speaker 1: King of the Mountain stuff. I have a King in

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Speaker 1: the Mountain vest. Did they still around when that ship

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Speaker 1: came out? I was just I couldn't. I was so

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Speaker 1: paralyzed by jealousy when that catalog came out, and I

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Speaker 1: was a young lad. I wanted the trapper will pull

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Speaker 1: over and I'd look at that price tag three fifty

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Speaker 1: at the time, which was in the eighties. Oh yeah

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Speaker 1: it was, which is thousands now. I remember being like,

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Speaker 1: what it must be magical, but that was doesn't be

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Speaker 1: able to fly. That stuff was the quality close we've

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Speaker 1: will you know for the day. I mean that stuff

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Speaker 1: was great, but it was meant. It's selling point was

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Speaker 1: you can machine washing. So I remember Cabela's came out

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Speaker 1: with a knockoff. They came out with a knockoff, and

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Speaker 1: I bought some of that ship and took it out

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Speaker 1: of Hunt, and after I got a wet a couple

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Speaker 1: of times, it was like I was wearing uh yeah,

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Speaker 1: like I was in a Shakespeare play, because it's just

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Speaker 1: whatever happened and hadn't happened, you know. And then you

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Speaker 1: you get where you didn't want to wash them because

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Speaker 1: it's just gonna make them worse. So the pretty soon

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Speaker 1: they're just like when you walk, they sort of crackle

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Speaker 1: because of like dried blood on the knees and ship,

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Speaker 1: you know, but those are the do you like them?

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Speaker 1: Here's don't drink too bad in that picture? Not too bad.

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Speaker 1: Actually have a wool coat that I loved that was

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Speaker 1: made by a company called wolf woolens or something like that.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what. The same thing happened. I were

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Speaker 1: in the rain. It shrunk, it got really small, and

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Speaker 1: when those deals used to her arms out and the

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Speaker 1: sleeves come up to here. I loved it so much

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Speaker 1: I took it in my in my shed and I

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Speaker 1: made a frame out of two by fours and I

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Speaker 1: hung cement blocks off of it, stretching. Wait waited it.

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Speaker 1: They kept wetting it again and trying to get it.

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Speaker 1: Never worked, never got it back. It was all misshaping

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Speaker 1: and screwed up. And I gave it to a friend.

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Speaker 1: If someone came in your shed and they think you're

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Speaker 1: up to some weird devil stuff, you're doing some weird

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Speaker 1: I've been that same situation with a pair of came

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Speaker 1: the mountain. I think they were called the bum Light

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Speaker 1: pant on them as a hunting guide, you know, and

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Speaker 1: had to have the best and uh same thing. I

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Speaker 1: washed them and I don't know if the no. I

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Speaker 1: did cold wash. I mean that's what you have to do,

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Speaker 1: and even that, just like the complete saturation of that wool.

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Speaker 1: I put them on the next time, and I was

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Speaker 1: a ballerining, you know, it's just like what they called them,

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Speaker 1: and they're like, yeah, you need to rewind them and

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Speaker 1: then slowly stretched them. But when it had happened, and

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Speaker 1: when I was trying, I just you know, overpowered, I guess,

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Speaker 1: and busted the scene that kind of go that's like

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Speaker 1: between the waistline in your pocket, and just ripped him

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Speaker 1: right across. So they ended up fixing them for me

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Speaker 1: for free, but they couldn't stretch them back out. Well,

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Speaker 1: somehow they got to be back to normal side. I

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Speaker 1: don't know if I just warmed back into normal fitting.

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Speaker 1: But that was ten years ago and I haven't watched

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Speaker 1: them since. You guys want to see a good segue.

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Speaker 1: You're ready for a big segue. Jimmy Um as a

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Speaker 1: traditional bowl hunter, imagine you're hunting wool lot ron. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: of course that's a great seg I like, well, I

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Speaker 1: like fleece because you gotta be quiet. You gotta be

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Speaker 1: gonna get close, and so you gotta be quiet. Like

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Speaker 1: what's like, okay, traditional bowl hunting, now that's recurbing longbow.

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Speaker 1: Recurbing longbow. Yep. Let me say, I do want to

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Speaker 1: get back to being real close and real quiet and

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Speaker 1: all that. But like, I don't understand how is the

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Speaker 1: recurve traditional because recurs like a long bowl. Right, you

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Speaker 1: have cultures so they feel that. Correct me if I'm wrong,

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Speaker 1: But the bow and arrow in North America as a

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Speaker 1: technology is maybe four or five thousand years old, and

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Speaker 1: people were still shooting long bowls up to the moment

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Speaker 1: when they got their hands on firearms. Whoever was using

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Speaker 1: a recurve? Like who made the recurve? Yeah, you have

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Speaker 1: to be careful of the term traditional, I think, because

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Speaker 1: it you know, it's just taken on its whole own life.

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Speaker 1: And so when I think a traditional bow hunting in

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Speaker 1: the traditional archery, it's really kind of this generalization of

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Speaker 1: everything pre compound. Yeah, that's yeah, So it's really I mean,

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Speaker 1: for me especially, I think of it as post war era,

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Speaker 1: you know, nties through you know, the late sixties, you

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Speaker 1: know when the compound came into being. You know, that's

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Speaker 1: really when traditional arch tree took off and became really popular.

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Speaker 1: I don't think traditions means a response to the compound. No, No,

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Speaker 1: I think it took offense to post war air I did,

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Speaker 1: I said, yeah, yeah, I mean I think you know,

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Speaker 1: people coming back from being overseas from being in the war.

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Speaker 1: I mist phenomenon is true for hunting in general, but

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Speaker 1: you know for archery, especially coming back and being able

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Speaker 1: to pick up a bow. You know, a lot of

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Speaker 1: the states were just legalizing, you know, seasons for archery.

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Speaker 1: At that time, archery was super popular. There was even

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Speaker 1: not just bow hunting, but you know, there were archery

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Speaker 1: lanes in the cities. There was you know, all kinds

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Speaker 1: of archery competitions, and the fifties mile Man belonged to

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Speaker 1: the Chicago Bowman. Yeah, exactly, and it was you know,

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Speaker 1: like the then Pope and Young was kind of a

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Speaker 1: thing and they're pushing for seasons. But he was a

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Speaker 1: recurve hunter. But like a recurve isn't a throwback, Like

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Speaker 1: but who didn't vent the recurve? So, I mean recurve

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Speaker 1: goes back to probably some asiatic style of bows, you know,

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Speaker 1: where there's a lot of um, you know, there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of reflex and deflex in the limb um, some

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Speaker 1: recurving of the limbs, you know, to get get static

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Speaker 1: tips in some cases. You know you have seen these bows,

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Speaker 1: uh you know, some of them made out of bone

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Speaker 1: and send you horn and send you. Uh, it's fantastic. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but it was never like an America. It was never

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Speaker 1: There's like no American indigenous cultures that were shooting recurve bows,

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Speaker 1: not that I can think of. Probably the earliest I

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Speaker 1: can think of was the bowyer for the Bear Archery Company,

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Speaker 1: Fred Bear's bowyer was Nail's Grumley, and he used to

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Speaker 1: build a static reach recurves on the end of what

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Speaker 1: you might otherwise look at and think was a long bow.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's got these static tips on them. Now

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Speaker 1: what so you do your hunt in primarily the recurve,

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Speaker 1: recurve V and long bow. Yeah. I killed two good

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Speaker 1: bucks this year, one with a long bow, one with

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Speaker 1: a recurve and forth. It was not just an idiot um.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's no different than guns or whatever. You know,

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Speaker 1: you just have a bunch of stuff you'd like to

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Speaker 1: play with in different setups. And one of the things

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Speaker 1: I love about traditional archery is just each but each

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Speaker 1: bow is different, every piece of wood is different. Every

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Speaker 1: you know, whoever made it has put their own their

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Speaker 1: own touch on it. You there's a lot of craftsmanship

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Speaker 1: that that goes into it, and so everyone is different.

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Speaker 1: It's just like, you know, going hunting with a different

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Speaker 1: buddy every time you go out. Now, did you did?

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Speaker 1: You used to cool so far jimmy out all that? Absolutely?

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Speaker 1: You did you? Did you get into it as a

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Speaker 1: response to like experiences rifle hunting or were you just

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Speaker 1: were you just a bow hunter flat out? Your old

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Speaker 1: man was a rifle hunter. Yeah. Now, I grew up

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Speaker 1: with a rifle and a muzzleloader, hunted mostly you know,

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Speaker 1: fifty caliber flintlock to three to seventy UM. And I

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Speaker 1: got into I had a bow, you know, growing up

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Speaker 1: as a kid. I had this little fiberglass bow that

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Speaker 1: a neighbor gave me and I loved it. Man, I

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Speaker 1: went everywhere with that thing. I just couldn't be separated

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Speaker 1: from it. Used to shooting our field and we had

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Speaker 1: this big creek by our house, and I'd go out

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Speaker 1: there and you know, fling arrows at muskrats and stuff.

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Speaker 1: And then I just kind of got away from it

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Speaker 1: because my family wasn't into bow hunting. We were, you know,

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Speaker 1: we were into gun hunting. And we used to go

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Speaker 1: to our cabin in Pennsylvania and gun hunting and I

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Speaker 1: loved it. And then, uh, you know, at some point

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Speaker 1: in college, I went back to the compound bow and

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Speaker 1: I started hunting with a compound bow a little bit,

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Speaker 1: just to take advantage of the seasons. Yeah, just take

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Speaker 1: advantage of the seasons. And I did like the bow hunt.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't like I didn't like it or anything. I just,

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Speaker 1: you know, I just had gotten away from it. And then,

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Speaker 1: you know, I tell this story in the book. You know,

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Speaker 1: I ended up in the hospital. I fell down a

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Speaker 1: set of steps and you know, messed up my back

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Speaker 1: a little bit. And then I killed a deer, kill

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Speaker 1: a small buck, and I tried to whale him over

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Speaker 1: a fence, you know, kind of one of these clean

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Speaker 1: and jerk moves, was a woven wire fence, and I

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Speaker 1: just totally wrenched my back, ruptured a disk in my back,

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Speaker 1: and it's really messed up. Deer hunting injury. Deer hunting

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Speaker 1: injury injury. Ended up in the hospital and traction. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: my my girlfriend at the time standpoint it was not

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Speaker 1: worth it. She brought me this grocery bag full of magazines,

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Speaker 1: and one of the magazines in that bag was Traditional

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Speaker 1: bow Hunter. It was issue, and I pulled that thing

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Speaker 1: out and I started reading it. It was like, it's

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Speaker 1: just a little fire. Now I write for the magazine. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I just not stopped reading that magazine. I read it

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Speaker 1: over and over land in the hospital, you know, legs

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Speaker 1: pulled up in ropes, and when I left, I was like, this,

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Speaker 1: this is for me, this is what I want to do,

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Speaker 1: and I've just been doing it ever since. I love it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's the thing about like bow hunt. My relationship with

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Speaker 1: bow hunt was eyes that along with most people, I

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Speaker 1: grew up with you just telling the bulks to let you.

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Speaker 1: Gave you much more hunting seasons, you know, like in Michigan,

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Speaker 1: I grew up general firearms ten days long. If you

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Speaker 1: bow hunted, you started bow hunting for deer October one.

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Speaker 1: You hunted up to the November, the mid November rifles season.

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Speaker 1: Then the woods fills up with dudes, right, it gets chaotic,

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Speaker 1: that thing ends, and you bow hunted again for another

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Speaker 1: month and a half. Yeah. I mean, just like triple

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Speaker 1: or quadruple, your stay is always out in the woods.

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Speaker 1: But it was that. But it was never like, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, I always appreciate the challenge of bow hunting,

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Speaker 1: but it was just a thing like I like to hunt.

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Speaker 1: There was a bow season. Therefore, you know you hunted

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Speaker 1: with a bow. But I was never looking to then

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Speaker 1: go and this might not be the word you use,

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Speaker 1: but I was never looking to then go handicap myself

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Speaker 1: by having a self imposed limit on the technology. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think there's a couple of things. I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: self imposing yourself to something that's more primitive can come

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Speaker 1: and like, you know, you can do that for a

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Speaker 1: lot of reasons. So you know, somebody who picks up

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Speaker 1: a rifle might self impose some trophy quality. You know,

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Speaker 1: I'm only gonna kill at white tailor you know, I

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Speaker 1: want to kill a big six by six bull elk.

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Speaker 1: You know, for me, I didn't have a ton of money.

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Speaker 1: You know, when I started out doing this, I couldn't

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Speaker 1: really travel as much as I wanted to to go hunt,

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Speaker 1: and so self imposing traditional archery on myself. And I've

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Speaker 1: I've only hunted with a gun maybe three times in

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Speaker 1: the last twenty five years. Just don't do anymore. I

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Speaker 1: don't do an I have a hunt only traditional bow

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Speaker 1: and those and the times I have hunted, it's been

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Speaker 1: with a with a flintlock, and I have taken a

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Speaker 1: couple of deer with that, But you know it's for me.

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Speaker 1: It's all been recurving longbow since then. But it's that

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Speaker 1: that's the that's how I'm self imposing my It's where

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Speaker 1: I'm getting the new challenge from. So instead of killing

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Speaker 1: something bigger, you know, I'm interested in getting closer and

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Speaker 1: making my equipment more primitive so that you know, I

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Speaker 1: get that same kind of rush and that same kind

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Speaker 1: of challenge and experience. You know, you can only shoot

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Speaker 1: so many white tail does you know before he's like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna try something a little different. Maybe I'll you know,

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Speaker 1: long bow and wooden arrows. It's another way to kind

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Speaker 1: of get at this. What's your effective range? You know

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Speaker 1: with with eat with each set of tackle you're using there, like,

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Speaker 1: what's the what's the not pushing it? But you know,

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Speaker 1: a good reasonable shots? Is that right? Nice and clothes? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: twenty yards is you know where I like to be.

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Speaker 1: I've shot you know, white tails out to a little

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Speaker 1: over thirty. I shot a clip springer in Africa at

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Speaker 1: over thirty, you know, but generally twenty yards. And I

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Speaker 1: know some guys who like that, you know, they set

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Speaker 1: up their ground blinds or tree stands or whatever. For

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Speaker 1: the closest shot they can with something like a long

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Speaker 1: but they want to be ten yards twelve yards. I've

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Speaker 1: actually found that that's worse for me because when you

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Speaker 1: have that animal on top of you, I mean, you

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Speaker 1: have no room for air, You're gonna get winded, You're

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Speaker 1: gonna you're talking about wol clothing and being quiet, you know. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean just just getting the full draw is impossible.

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Speaker 1: And so I've learned that for me, about eighteen yards

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Speaker 1: is where I want to be. You know, you got

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Speaker 1: to start getting above eighteen. Weird stuff can happen, but

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Speaker 1: at eighteen that's pretty good. You know. With an example

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Speaker 1: of weird stuff they can happen. Well, deer can jump

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Speaker 1: the string. You know, you can screw up a shot

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Speaker 1: pretty quick at thirty five yards with it, you know,

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Speaker 1: with a traditional bow. I mean I regularly practice out

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Speaker 1: tot you know, and I can I can hit the

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Speaker 1: you know, the vital zone and on a three D target,

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Speaker 1: you know, easily at thirty five again and again and again.

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Speaker 1: But that's not a live animal. That's not an animal

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Speaker 1: that can jump and move. It's like the compound shooter

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Speaker 1: who likes to shoot who will fling arrows at ninety

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Speaker 1: but then he's deadly exactly. It's also a whole different

348
00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:17,200
Speaker 1: ball game when you're cold, when you're nervous. I'll talk

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Speaker 1: a lot about, you know, performance anxiety or buck fever

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Speaker 1: in this book because I think it it probably is

351
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Speaker 1: the reason it's so hard to replicate that in practice training.

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Speaker 1: You know, I used to always have guys at the

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Speaker 1: range when we'd have hunters coming in. We go and,

354
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Speaker 1: you know, shoot a couple of shots, and like, all right,

355
00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:42,280
Speaker 1: you're going is good? Now run fifty yards, turn around,

356
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Speaker 1: sprint back, grab your rifle, and then off your knee.

357
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Speaker 1: You know, let's see what your group looks like at

358
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Speaker 1: a hundred Yeah big. You know it's like, I don't

359
00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:52,679
Speaker 1: know any other way to Yeah, what's your take on it?

360
00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:54,159
Speaker 1: You can't prep for it. Do you think you can

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Speaker 1: prep for You can't prep for it? And well, you

362
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Speaker 1: can prep for it, but I think it's even worse

363
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Speaker 1: with traditional arch your gear, because if you're shooting a

364
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Speaker 1: compound or a rifle, you've got a site. You know,

365
00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:07,680
Speaker 1: it's it's just talk compounds. You know, you've got a site,

366
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Speaker 1: pin and you've got a peep and not only are

367
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Speaker 1: they tools for you to you know, to hit your target,

368
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Speaker 1: you know, to line up and hit what you want

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Speaker 1: to hit. Put there. It's a support system. It gives

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Speaker 1: your brain a set of you know, it's a mechanism

371
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Speaker 1: that you know what to do. You're gonna draw that bow,

372
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Speaker 1: You're gonna line up the pin and the peep, You're

373
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Speaker 1: gonna put the pin on where you want to hit,

374
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Speaker 1: and you're gonna release your arrow with without sights, which

375
00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:32,120
Speaker 1: is the way most guys shoot long bows and recurves.

376
00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:34,600
Speaker 1: There's none of that, so you have to force your brain,

377
00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:36,920
Speaker 1: you know, and your whole body with you know, with

378
00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:39,920
Speaker 1: all the adrenaline pumping through you come to full draw.

379
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Speaker 1: Pick a spot, you know, on the animal. Just find

380
00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:45,280
Speaker 1: some ripple of muscle, you know whatever it is a

381
00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:48,600
Speaker 1: little dappless unlight, and look at that spot and stare

382
00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:51,719
Speaker 1: it down and come to full draw and release. And

383
00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:54,840
Speaker 1: there's just no support mechanism, and it's so easy to

384
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Speaker 1: fall apart. It's really easy to just know. I mean,

385
00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:00,960
Speaker 1: you know, you just whom and the arrow is gone,

386
00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:03,200
Speaker 1: and you know it's nowhere near the animal you're trying

387
00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:06,600
Speaker 1: to hit. So you talk about um it was funny

388
00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:09,160
Speaker 1: you managed like the ripple of muscle or sunlight. You're

389
00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:12,639
Speaker 1: talking about being not just I'm gonna hit the deer

390
00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:16,120
Speaker 1: or not just that I'm gonna hit the rib area,

391
00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:19,880
Speaker 1: but you're like, I'm going to hit that that thing.

392
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Speaker 1: I'm gonna hit that little hair that's out of place

393
00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:25,239
Speaker 1: right now, it's the whole like burdock or whatever on

394
00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:28,560
Speaker 1: his side exactly. I mean, you have to. It's so hard.

395
00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:31,040
Speaker 1: We have to train yourself to do that because you don't.

396
00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:32,840
Speaker 1: I mean, when that big buck comes in or any

397
00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:36,200
Speaker 1: animal comes in, you know, you're just your blood is pumping,

398
00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:39,720
Speaker 1: you're you're not thinking right and being able to really

399
00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:43,160
Speaker 1: slow yourself down and say pick a spot is so important.

400
00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:44,879
Speaker 1: When I was a kid, my old man would put

401
00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:47,320
Speaker 1: stickers on our bows and the sticker said, stay calm,

402
00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:49,280
Speaker 1: pick a spot now that you remember, not that you

403
00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:51,439
Speaker 1: would remember to read the sun bitch and sticker, but

404
00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:53,000
Speaker 1: it's just on there, you know, and it was like

405
00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:55,200
Speaker 1: it's reminder. But I remember like the first year miss

406
00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:58,040
Speaker 1: of the boat. It was, you know, feet from the

407
00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:01,200
Speaker 1: base of the tree and you couldn't imagine that. You

408
00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:05,080
Speaker 1: couldn't like, how could you miss that you can't. But

409
00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:07,600
Speaker 1: then you pull remember like those first times bowing. I

410
00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:09,200
Speaker 1: was twelve when I missed the first year of the bow.

411
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Speaker 1: And you pull back and you think about it like

412
00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:15,840
Speaker 1: you you couldn't even there's no recollection of doing any

413
00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:17,879
Speaker 1: of the things you're supposed to do. It was just

414
00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:22,160
Speaker 1: like there's a deer and you pull back and let go. Yeah,

415
00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:24,000
Speaker 1: And I think a lot of that's adrenaline too. I

416
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:26,520
Speaker 1: think it's why we forget. You know, you take a

417
00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:28,640
Speaker 1: shot and you don't even remember where the animal went.

418
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:31,639
Speaker 1: You don't remember seeing the arrow, you don't remember the shot.

419
00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:34,800
Speaker 1: I think your body is just so overloaded on adrenaline

420
00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:38,920
Speaker 1: that you just can't Your mind's just out of whack. Yeah.

421
00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:41,600
Speaker 1: I talked about this in the book too. But you know,

422
00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:45,880
Speaker 1: there's lots of you know, studies with humans looking at multitasking,

423
00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:49,200
Speaker 1: and we really suck at multitasking. You know. You can,

424
00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:52,320
Speaker 1: you can type an email and eat your lunch, But

425
00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:54,520
Speaker 1: try to type an email and talk on the phone

426
00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:57,119
Speaker 1: at the same time. I mean, it's really hard to

427
00:21:57,119 --> 00:21:59,240
Speaker 1: do that, you know, because you're using the same kind

428
00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:02,320
Speaker 1: of mental capacities, the same kinds of things in your brain.

429
00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:06,399
Speaker 1: You know you you make those decisions with the prefrontal

430
00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:09,240
Speaker 1: cortex of the brain each side. It's responsible for for

431
00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:13,560
Speaker 1: making all kinds of decisions when you're multitasking. And for me,

432
00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:15,760
Speaker 1: you know, I just have to break the whole shot

433
00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:20,520
Speaker 1: sequence down into two steps. And so when I see

434
00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:22,320
Speaker 1: an animal and I decide I'm going to shoot, I

435
00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:24,879
Speaker 1: have this whole thing I do in my head where

436
00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:28,199
Speaker 1: you know, I pick a spot, bow arm, my bo

437
00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:30,960
Speaker 1: arm goes in a certain position, and I draw to

438
00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:33,840
Speaker 1: my first anchor where my my hand comes to rest

439
00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:37,280
Speaker 1: under my cheekbone, and then I reaffirmed my spot. I'm like,

440
00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:38,959
Speaker 1: all right, I'm I'm on my spot. I'm still on

441
00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:41,480
Speaker 1: my spot. And then I just keep pulling until I

442
00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:44,439
Speaker 1: hit my second anchor and boom the arrows away And

443
00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:49,440
Speaker 1: you're literally running through a checklist in your head. Kind

444
00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:51,680
Speaker 1: of That's what I do when I practice, when I'm

445
00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:55,880
Speaker 1: actually hunting. Not the checklist doesn't always come because things

446
00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:59,400
Speaker 1: are happening so fast, but if the actions come, they're

447
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:02,119
Speaker 1: just they're turned into your brain. You know, the muscle

448
00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:04,760
Speaker 1: memories there, the you know, it's all in your head

449
00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:06,600
Speaker 1: and you just kind of do it. But if I

450
00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:08,760
Speaker 1: don't have that system, you know. I found this found

451
00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:11,320
Speaker 1: us out the hard way. I'm just off all apart.

452
00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:14,520
Speaker 1: You know, I won't make a good shot. But with

453
00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:17,880
Speaker 1: the system, I'm good. You know. So now when you aim,

454
00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:20,119
Speaker 1: I know you talked about this in the in the book,

455
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:24,040
Speaker 1: talking about like what what's the term like point when

456
00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:28,639
Speaker 1: you aim off the point of the arrow? My brother's

457
00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:32,399
Speaker 1: recurve shooter and hunter, and well he talks about it.

458
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:34,600
Speaker 1: I feel like he does, Yeah, gaps deadly. I don't.

459
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:37,600
Speaker 1: I don't really I kind of gat ye, right it is.

460
00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:39,600
Speaker 1: And and so for me, you know, I have this

461
00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:41,679
Speaker 1: whole system where I come to my first anchor on

462
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:44,879
Speaker 1: my face and then I keep drawing the string until

463
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,000
Speaker 1: the cock fare feather hits my nose, and that's my

464
00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:51,120
Speaker 1: cute to release. It's like a little psychological trigger. Once

465
00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:54,040
Speaker 1: the thing hits, boom, I'm gone. And that out to

466
00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:57,720
Speaker 1: about twenty yards, I'm just looking at the spot and

467
00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:00,320
Speaker 1: just looking at something I want to hit. But yawned

468
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:03,080
Speaker 1: about twenty seven or twenty eight yards. I can't help

469
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:05,479
Speaker 1: but see the tip of my arrow in my vision

470
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:07,640
Speaker 1: because you know, I'm coming up like this, and so

471
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:09,640
Speaker 1: the arrow is coming up into my field of view,

472
00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:12,159
Speaker 1: and so at that point I used to try to

473
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:14,480
Speaker 1: ignore it. But over the years I've learned, why not

474
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:16,960
Speaker 1: use it, Just use it as an aiming system. So

475
00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:19,400
Speaker 1: once I get to that distance, then I can hold

476
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:21,560
Speaker 1: the arrow right on where I want to hit. And

477
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:23,560
Speaker 1: if I'm further than out, if I'm thirty five, then

478
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:25,520
Speaker 1: I'm holding the tip of the arrow just you know,

479
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:27,240
Speaker 1: a couple of inches above where I want to be,

480
00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:31,080
Speaker 1: and so on out you know yards. Now does your

481
00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:37,720
Speaker 1: point of aim uh differ using traditional gear over compound placement?

482
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 1: Like I'm as you get real afraid of the shoulder blade?

483
00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:43,239
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you do. Shoulder blades instant death, not not

484
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:45,359
Speaker 1: for the deer, but instant death for you as the archer.

485
00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:51,000
Speaker 1: Not anymore so with traditional gear versus compound gear. Well, if, yeah,

486
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:52,480
Speaker 1: you gotta have weight. This has to be a hell

487
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:56,040
Speaker 1: of a lot less energy out of a long bowl

488
00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:00,879
Speaker 1: then out of a souped up compound. Yeah, there is,

489
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:03,520
Speaker 1: And some of it depends on your your broad head

490
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:05,760
Speaker 1: to you know, if you're shooting a nice two blade

491
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:08,600
Speaker 1: broad head, I certainly don't want to shoot the shoulder,

492
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:11,480
Speaker 1: but if you do by accident, you can often penetrate

493
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:13,720
Speaker 1: the shoulder and get blade but not the bone proper.

494
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:15,720
Speaker 1: Gett into the blade, but not the action, not the

495
00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:17,880
Speaker 1: not the fever or anything. So you can punch through

496
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:19,960
Speaker 1: the blade. You can with a two point you can

497
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:24,000
Speaker 1: like shoot a thirty yards or whatever, twenty yards you

498
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:26,320
Speaker 1: could go. You can put like a wooden narrow through

499
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:28,520
Speaker 1: that shoulder blade and get into the vitals. You can't.

500
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 1: I don't recommend it, but yeah, you can absolutely do it.

501
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:34,080
Speaker 1: Do you aim like I usual, aiming for the crease?

502
00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:35,560
Speaker 1: Are you us you back a couple of ribs just

503
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:38,760
Speaker 1: to give yourself room to play? Well? I mean, you

504
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:39,919
Speaker 1: know the game. I mean, you don't want to go

505
00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:42,960
Speaker 1: back too many ribs because then if the animal, you know,

506
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:45,280
Speaker 1: if you get jumping the string a little bit forward

507
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:47,320
Speaker 1: or backward, then you're you know, getting into the punch,

508
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:49,399
Speaker 1: or if you just kind of screw up a little bit,

509
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,119
Speaker 1: you're getting into the punch. So I pretty much, you know,

510
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:54,639
Speaker 1: come up the back of the leg and then come

511
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 1: you know, maybe a couple of inches back on the

512
00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:59,560
Speaker 1: ribs about dead center of the body is where I

513
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 1: want to be. And then do you ever take um?

514
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:09,600
Speaker 1: Do you just shoot broadside? No, I like quartering away, Yeah,

515
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:12,720
Speaker 1: I mean, you never do like face on shots. That's

516
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:14,600
Speaker 1: just too hard. You knew what I did this year,

517
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:18,760
Speaker 1: didn't I can tell by the way you're I shot

518
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:22,159
Speaker 1: my first ever deer this year quartering on in the

519
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 1: brisket coming in. You know, like, you know, a shot

520
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:27,639
Speaker 1: that a rifle hunter or a combound I wouldn't think about.

521
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:29,680
Speaker 1: But you just you just don't do it with traditional gear,

522
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 1: And I've never done it. Why wouldn't you do a

523
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:33,959
Speaker 1: traditional gear because you just can't get them. You know,

524
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:36,639
Speaker 1: you just have a little pocket in there where you

525
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 1: can get to the vitals and there's just a lot

526
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:41,280
Speaker 1: of meat and a lot of bone in there to penetrate.

527
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:43,720
Speaker 1: And with a compound you can just kind of you've

528
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:45,840
Speaker 1: got the kinnetic energy to punch it through there. And

529
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:48,760
Speaker 1: so it's a still not a great shot with a compound,

530
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:50,800
Speaker 1: but it's one that guys doing with a rifle. It's

531
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's an easy shot. But with a

532
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:56,960
Speaker 1: traditional boat's you know a lot of guys probably listening

533
00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,280
Speaker 1: to this podcast shaking their heads and you know, why

534
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:01,240
Speaker 1: the hell would he do that? You know, it's really

535
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:04,240
Speaker 1: a no, no kind of a shot. But I've been

536
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,440
Speaker 1: doing this a long time. I had a shot at

537
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:10,560
Speaker 1: a good buck. He was standing there. I kept looking

538
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,399
Speaker 1: at that spot and looking at that spot. I was calm,

539
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 1: and I thought, I can do that. I know I

540
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 1: can put that arrow there. And frankly, it was one

541
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:21,160
Speaker 1: of the deadliest shots I ever made. Yeah, deer went

542
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 1: maybe sixty yards and was done. So, you know, it

543
00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 1: does work. Will I ever do it again? I don't know.

544
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:31,000
Speaker 1: I got away with it. It worked. You know. It

545
00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:34,960
Speaker 1: causes a lot of you know, controversy and the hunter

546
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean, guys get really piste off when

547
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:40,399
Speaker 1: they hear about other other you know, bow hunters taking

548
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:42,919
Speaker 1: that shot. You can I ask you, what kind of

549
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:44,800
Speaker 1: a difference in feet per second? Like what kind of

550
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 1: energy difference sweet and modern compounds and all the traditional

551
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:50,600
Speaker 1: It can be pretty big. I mean, so I shoot bow.

552
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 1: I used to shoot, you know, close to sixty or

553
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:55,159
Speaker 1: even a little over sixty pounds, but I changed my

554
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:57,200
Speaker 1: shooting style a few years ago and I dropped back

555
00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:01,159
Speaker 1: to fifty pounds and I haven't seen any real difference

556
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:04,399
Speaker 1: in penetration. But so at fifty pounds, you know, I'm

557
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:07,639
Speaker 1: shooting probably a hundred and seventy five ft per second,

558
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:10,840
Speaker 1: and I'm shooting an arrow that weighs around five hundred grains.

559
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:13,960
Speaker 1: I think that works out to, like, you know, thirty

560
00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:18,360
Speaker 1: five pounds of kinetic energy something like that. Compound shooters

561
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:21,400
Speaker 1: probably shooting more like I don't know, to seventy five

562
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:25,920
Speaker 1: is probably not out of the question at all about

563
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 1: out right, and then maybe three fifty graine arrow, so

564
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 1: you know, a lot lighter arrow, but you know, kinetic

565
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:34,400
Speaker 1: kinetic energy of that is probably up around more like

566
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 1: I don't know, I bet close to fifty pounds. So yeah,

567
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:40,720
Speaker 1: there's there's a pretty big difference difference. Do you think

568
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:44,240
Speaker 1: that that for someone that haunts compound they want to

569
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:50,080
Speaker 1: switch to traditional archery? Um, what's the biggest challenge there

570
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:54,200
Speaker 1: is it? Do you think it's the proximity for people

571
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:57,880
Speaker 1: like you now gotta have the distance so you're custom

572
00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:00,160
Speaker 1: shooting a certain distance, you gotta cut that in half.

573
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:02,000
Speaker 1: Or do you think it's just that it's so much

574
00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:03,600
Speaker 1: more difficult to put the air where you want to

575
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 1: put it. I think it's it's more difficult to put

576
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:08,360
Speaker 1: the error where you want to put it. Because even

577
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 1: though compound shooters can shoot forty and fifty yards. You know,

578
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:14,840
Speaker 1: hunt mostly in the east, so it's mostly white tail stuff.

579
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:18,760
Speaker 1: Guys are still mostly shooting it deer at even with

580
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 1: the compounds, So I don't think the distance is that much.

581
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:25,760
Speaker 1: When you're on you can kind of pick you in

582
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:28,400
Speaker 1: some ways you're picking the distance exactly. If you're set

583
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:31,200
Speaker 1: up is picking the distance. I think it's the lack

584
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:33,800
Speaker 1: of it is where it's back to the support system again.

585
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:36,280
Speaker 1: You know, when you're shooting a compound, you've got all that.

586
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 1: You know, you've got those tools, you know, to be

587
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:40,720
Speaker 1: able to just kind of keep yourself calm, lay the

588
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:42,720
Speaker 1: shot in there the way you want it. And with

589
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 1: a traditional bow you just don't have that. The other

590
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:47,120
Speaker 1: thing you don't have is let off, and so it's

591
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:49,520
Speaker 1: not like you can you know, you see you see

592
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 1: an animal coming. You know it's it's passing behind a stand,

593
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 1: a doug for or something, and you know it's gonna

594
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:58,720
Speaker 1: pop out at you know, twenty yards, and you know

595
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:00,840
Speaker 1: it's going to take a few seconds for that to happen.

596
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:04,040
Speaker 1: Compound bow let off you just pull when you've got

597
00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:05,920
Speaker 1: good cover to pull, you know you're at full draw,

598
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 1: you hold you wight. You eight, You wait, you wait,

599
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 1: that animal pops out and you know you're able to

600
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 1: get a nice shot off. You can't do that with

601
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:15,800
Speaker 1: a traditional bow. And you know, unless you're Hulk Hogan

602
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 1: and you can hold it that long, you know you're

603
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 1: waiting until just a few seconds or a fraction of

604
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 1: a second to be able to get the full draw

605
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:28,200
Speaker 1: and get that arrow off. So that one like, you

606
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:32,240
Speaker 1: don't really camp out at all. Full drawing isn't the

607
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:34,960
Speaker 1: kind of like a fluid motion depends. You know, lots

608
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 1: of guys shoot that way. They shoot split finger, so

609
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 1: one finger above the knock, two fingers below the knock

610
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:42,840
Speaker 1: on the string. They're drawing, drawing all the way back

611
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 1: and you know standard places middle finger, corner of the mouth,

612
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 1: and they're just the whole time they're drawing, they're just

613
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 1: burning a hole and what they want to hit. And

614
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 1: when they hit full draw, the arrow is gone. It's

615
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:56,560
Speaker 1: that fluid motion. It's instinctive shooting. I'm kind of a

616
00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:59,479
Speaker 1: hybrid system. I'm not a gap shooter, but when I

617
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:02,479
Speaker 1: get to my first anchor point, I'm locked in and

618
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:05,960
Speaker 1: I'm there for a couple of seconds and and I

619
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:08,920
Speaker 1: can hold yeah, a beat or too longer until I

620
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:11,480
Speaker 1: can get to my second anchor point and then I'm gone.

621
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 1: So I'm a slower shooter than a lot of guys.

622
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:16,080
Speaker 1: But you can draw back and hang out for a

623
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:18,240
Speaker 1: couple of seconds, a few seconds, and then still do

624
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:20,040
Speaker 1: a nice shot. You wouldn't need to let off and

625
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 1: start over again to get your system down. Yeah. I

626
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 1: had a buck come in on me this year and

627
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 1: he was coming at a just a nice crisp walk,

628
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:31,320
Speaker 1: and I came to full draw right at the point

629
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 1: when I thought he was going to come out in

630
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:35,720
Speaker 1: my shooting lane, and he stopped it. So here I am.

631
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:38,040
Speaker 1: I have no shot, and I'm at full draw, and

632
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:40,240
Speaker 1: I'm holding and I'm waiting and I'm waiting and I'm

633
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 1: waiting and I you know, just waiting for him to

634
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 1: do is take like three or four more steps, and

635
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:48,240
Speaker 1: you know, my whole body's quaking like an aspen leaf.

636
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:50,200
Speaker 1: You know, I'm like, there's no way this is not

637
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 1: going to happen. And so I had to really gingerly

638
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 1: let down. And the good thing I did, because he

639
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:58,440
Speaker 1: ended up staying there for a long but now I

640
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 1: didn't spook him, and then only he actually turned away

641
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 1: and started to walk away and then turned back around

642
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 1: and went right through the shooting lane. I hoped he'd

643
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 1: come through and then I was able to make the shot. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

644
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:14,800
Speaker 1: what kind of stuff you want? Egg Land? I hunt

645
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 1: mostly behind my house where I've got I own thirty

646
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 1: six acres, and then I have permission on another gosh,

647
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 1: I don't even know, probably two or three hundred acres,

648
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 1: which I know it doesn't sound like a lot in

649
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:31,200
Speaker 1: you know, in Western terms, that's that's all. That's a

650
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:33,920
Speaker 1: chunk of land, and it's it's all ridge. You know,

651
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:37,680
Speaker 1: it's all mountain land basically. Not No, so not eggland. Nope,

652
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:40,120
Speaker 1: well used, I mean I traveled other places to hunt,

653
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:43,880
Speaker 1: so I do have some property. Your main hunting spot

654
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:49,120
Speaker 1: big woods, ye, big woods? Yeah, and you use you

655
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:54,120
Speaker 1: use bait for deer, No, no bait for me. New

656
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 1: York States baits not legal, not New York. So so

657
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:01,040
Speaker 1: what do you? Ohio, I think are closest state that

658
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:03,560
Speaker 1: allows bait. So what do you what do you like

659
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:06,240
Speaker 1: to sit on that you're sitting on trails? I sit

660
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:10,320
Speaker 1: on trails, So bait is not allowed at all New

661
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:12,480
Speaker 1: York States. Not you're not even allowed to feed deer

662
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:15,240
Speaker 1: in New York State. I think I think that's true.

663
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 1: It's true in some counties, and I think it's going

664
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:21,240
Speaker 1: to become true statewide, mainly because of chronic wasting disease,

665
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:24,680
Speaker 1: so there's concerns about that. So yeah, you can use

666
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 1: set attractors. So what is your typical setup? I figure

667
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:32,640
Speaker 1: out betting areas and feeding areas, and I like to

668
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:35,240
Speaker 1: get close to betting areas because you know, deer aren't

669
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:38,480
Speaker 1: moving until you know the last light. So if you know,

670
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 1: if you're sitting on food, do you sit there all

671
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:41,560
Speaker 1: day and you're not going to see anything? In a

672
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:44,760
Speaker 1: lot of cases, not always, but you know, especially if

673
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 1: you're hunting in October, when you know deer they're not

674
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 1: food stressed yet or anything, and so they're staying in

675
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 1: their beds until after dark and then they're gonna get

676
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:54,760
Speaker 1: up and move to food. So if you can find

677
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:57,120
Speaker 1: those betting areas and get close. And what I like

678
00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:00,280
Speaker 1: to do is figure out the terrain funnels. You know,

679
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 1: I'm hunting mountain grounds, so there's you know, lots of

680
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 1: little hollows and bridges with benches and that kind of stuff,

681
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:10,480
Speaker 1: and so you know, I try to figure out how

682
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:12,279
Speaker 1: a buck is going to get from his bed to

683
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 1: his food. And sometimes there's you know, things that are

684
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:18,759
Speaker 1: like staging areas where you know buck will come out.

685
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 1: It's a safe spot because there's some cover there and

686
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:24,120
Speaker 1: he'll hang out a little bit, you know, before heading

687
00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:25,719
Speaker 1: off to the food and there's a great spot. So

688
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:27,759
Speaker 1: if you can figure them out where he's gonna mill

689
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:30,600
Speaker 1: around around, you do see that quite often, like just

690
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 1: glass and deer, any kind of hunting situation with deer,

691
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:37,560
Speaker 1: I think oftentimes you'll see them where where they spend

692
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 1: a lot of time in the in the after, like

693
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:42,600
Speaker 1: if they're coming out for the evening feed, where they

694
00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:45,279
Speaker 1: spend a lot of time before really committing to coming

695
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:47,440
Speaker 1: out onto a big stage flat or coming out and

696
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:49,759
Speaker 1: do an egg field. You know they're up and they're

697
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:52,400
Speaker 1: not They're not like just standing there. They'll feed on

698
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:55,000
Speaker 1: some brows and yeah, but they say they know that

699
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:58,560
Speaker 1: like risky step and prolonging that risky thing, you know,

700
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:00,880
Speaker 1: And you can see a lot of mine in those places.

701
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:03,920
Speaker 1: You'll see lots of tracks and you know ship and

702
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 1: as far and if you're looking for bucks, you know

703
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:08,640
Speaker 1: a lot of times you'll find rubs popping up the Yeah,

704
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:10,920
Speaker 1: because they're I think they're bored. You know, they're in

705
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:12,440
Speaker 1: there there. They don't want to go to the food

706
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 1: because you know, that's a dangerous spot. Often doesn't have

707
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:17,480
Speaker 1: a lot of cover. They're in a place with a

708
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:19,480
Speaker 1: lot of cover, and they're just kind of moving around

709
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:23,399
Speaker 1: in there, maybe feeding on what's there, rubbing. Yeah, it's

710
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:25,919
Speaker 1: I don't think people I'm sure they do. Some people

711
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:30,759
Speaker 1: probably don't realize what twenty yards is close. Yeah, I

712
00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:33,879
Speaker 1: mean you're like breathing the air with them. But must

713
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:35,959
Speaker 1: be you must be sitting there sometimes and have deer

714
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:38,239
Speaker 1: walk by, like that deer is so damn close. But

715
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:39,880
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna take the shot. Oh, I love it.

716
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:42,239
Speaker 1: That's one of my favorite things. Actually. You know, it's

717
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:44,160
Speaker 1: just you know how you know, having a dough and

718
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:46,399
Speaker 1: a couple of fawns walked by it, you know, at

719
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:48,399
Speaker 1: ten yards and they're right there. I mean, you see

720
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:50,560
Speaker 1: every hair on that deer. You can see her eyelashes,

721
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:53,480
Speaker 1: you know, you can you can see her their nostrils

722
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 1: flaring in and out when she's breathing. I mean, it's

723
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:58,200
Speaker 1: not That's why I'm in the woods I mean that's

724
00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:00,960
Speaker 1: the stuff that really makes your heart tick after after

725
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:04,319
Speaker 1: you know, growing up tree standing hunting for deer and

726
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:06,680
Speaker 1: then moving out west and just being so in love

727
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:09,600
Speaker 1: with spot stock hunting and backpack hunting, you know, like

728
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:13,520
Speaker 1: hunting really big country with firearms, especially UM or even

729
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:18,120
Speaker 1: just with bo but like traveling while you're hunting. Uh.

730
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 1: I never got like really nostalgic for being in a tree.

731
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:25,000
Speaker 1: But then one day I was just out in Miles

732
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 1: City with my brother and we spent a couple of

733
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:31,040
Speaker 1: days bow hunting out of trees and um after a

734
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:33,279
Speaker 1: long break from it, after a decade of not doing it,

735
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 1: and I remember sitting in that tree being like, man,

736
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:41,440
Speaker 1: I just totally forgot the level of detail where just

737
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:44,400
Speaker 1: being there and and instead of you moving to things,

738
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:47,080
Speaker 1: are you moving into some things? Just that having the

739
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:50,920
Speaker 1: things come to you. Remember being like having raccoons messing

740
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:53,520
Speaker 1: in the tree next to me, and then squirrels and

741
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:55,239
Speaker 1: the way birds will come up and land on your

742
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 1: arrow shaft and all that. You're like, oh, I totally forgot,

743
00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:02,440
Speaker 1: like you watch wildlife in such a different way, or

744
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:04,759
Speaker 1: like how skin is rough, growls are I okay, think

745
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:07,839
Speaker 1: how many times sitting in my tree stand and just

746
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:11,680
Speaker 1: observing a rough growlse, which doesn't happen. You can hunt.

747
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:13,480
Speaker 1: You can be the biggest damn bird hunter in the

748
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:15,640
Speaker 1: world and you don't. The only thing you ever see

749
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:19,000
Speaker 1: of rough grouse is them going. But to be like, oh, yeah,

750
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:21,840
Speaker 1: there is he's feeding. Yeah, I mean malone, me's scratching

751
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:23,759
Speaker 1: and leaves. It's like you see ship that you just

752
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:26,799
Speaker 1: don't see. Yeah, I mean when you're hiking hunter. You know,

753
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:29,719
Speaker 1: we all all kind of evolved as hunters, and you know,

754
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:31,560
Speaker 1: we think about what it is we really like to

755
00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:34,239
Speaker 1: do and and how we do it. And I got

756
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:38,080
Speaker 1: to a stage in my hunting where I felt guilty

757
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 1: for not doing more spotting, stock hunting, or not doing

758
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 1: more you know, kind of still hunting. It's always sitting

759
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:46,760
Speaker 1: in a tree or sitting in a ground blind. And

760
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:48,080
Speaker 1: I was like, man, I should really, you know, I

761
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:50,400
Speaker 1: should start doing more of that other stuff. And I

762
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:52,680
Speaker 1: have done more of it, but I always come back

763
00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:54,800
Speaker 1: to this this thing, you know, where I've matured a

764
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 1: little bit. And I said, well, that's what I love

765
00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:59,440
Speaker 1: to do. For all the reasons you just explained. I

766
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:03,880
Speaker 1: just love of, you know, to to just figure the

767
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:08,040
Speaker 1: deer out. Just really learn a place, you know, learn

768
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:10,720
Speaker 1: what makes it tick. You know, where's the topography, where's

769
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:13,719
Speaker 1: the food, where do they bed? Where is that one

770
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:16,880
Speaker 1: spot in the entire forest that a deer is going

771
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:19,879
Speaker 1: to walk by? That's what really it's like a chess game.

772
00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:22,560
Speaker 1: I mean, that's what really gets me going. And then

773
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:25,160
Speaker 1: on top of that, you know you've become part of

774
00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:27,239
Speaker 1: the forest when you're sitting there for hours on end

775
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:29,640
Speaker 1: and you get to see the really cool stuff, you know,

776
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:32,080
Speaker 1: the the red fox, you know, leaping up in the

777
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:35,000
Speaker 1: air and snow diving after meadow balls. I mean, that's

778
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:36,440
Speaker 1: the kind of stuff you don't really get to see

779
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:38,319
Speaker 1: if you're out cruising around too much. But if you're

780
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 1: right there, you know, you get to see a lot

781
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:43,640
Speaker 1: of interesting wildlife. Remember being here one time and watching

782
00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:47,000
Speaker 1: a mink dedicate about twenty minutes of his life to

783
00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:49,920
Speaker 1: trying to catch a chipmunk and some holes and some

784
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 1: trees and just be like, man, you know genacious. Yeah,

785
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:55,600
Speaker 1: the ship you just never would notice, you know, I

786
00:38:55,680 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 1: loved it. Now you mentioned ground blinds, you say, ground lines,

787
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:05,560
Speaker 1: not pop ups much. Yeah, that's like a generational thing

788
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:08,120
Speaker 1: and I think it's like so few people mile Man

789
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:11,160
Speaker 1: would build. He'd build a wigwam ground blind, but he

790
00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:13,880
Speaker 1: was trained up hunting traditional archery, hunting recurb. When he

791
00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:16,080
Speaker 1: switched to compounds, though, he would still quite off and

792
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:21,239
Speaker 1: build a wigwam style ground blind and he would even

793
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:26,839
Speaker 1: excavated out so it's just dead quiet. And then it's

794
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:31,279
Speaker 1: wigwam style dome. He'd build a brush dome. I mean

795
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:33,279
Speaker 1: where it was clothes on top. Where does the word

796
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:37,479
Speaker 1: wigwam come from? Like the Jibwe and other Eastern where

797
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:40,880
Speaker 1: you're born, those people, the indigenous people where you were

798
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:45,160
Speaker 1: born used wigwams. You were born in aam? No, you

799
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:48,319
Speaker 1: were born in a wigwam country? Typing wigwam in your

800
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:51,759
Speaker 1: damn phone? Isn't there a sock company called Wigwam? But

801
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:55,279
Speaker 1: nobody knows the style of house. Jimmy Dorn, you know

802
00:39:55,320 --> 00:40:03,320
Speaker 1: what that means? Lowly pianman pizza, That shelter, Yeah, don't shelter,

803
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:06,279
Speaker 1: don't shelter, will reads and I don't know, leaves and

804
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:09,320
Speaker 1: stuff on it. They sheathed it with different things, anything

805
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:11,680
Speaker 1: barked grass. But it's like that's that's the first time

806
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:13,800
Speaker 1: I've heard of it. He's in it like because we built.

807
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:15,600
Speaker 1: I mean, that's all I sat in growing up. You know,

808
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:17,319
Speaker 1: until we were old enough to get into a tree,

809
00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:19,320
Speaker 1: it was always ground by it. But we never built

810
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:23,640
Speaker 1: like a roof woven. It's like a woven thing. So

811
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:27,000
Speaker 1: you wind up, you go around your perimeter and put

812
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:30,680
Speaker 1: in long bendy poles and you make a circle long

813
00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:34,239
Speaker 1: bendy poles. The imagine bending all those poles in and

814
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:37,960
Speaker 1: to meet at the top. And then then you have

815
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 1: like what looks like umbrella staves with no umbrella, and

816
00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 1: then you run circular like you're there. They're basically forming

817
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:48,600
Speaker 1: lines of latitude. So there's your lines of longitude, like

818
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:50,920
Speaker 1: a half of the globe with longitude lines on it,

819
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:53,440
Speaker 1: and then you put in you take sticks and make

820
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:56,440
Speaker 1: your lines of latitude. Then you brush it in. But

821
00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:58,759
Speaker 1: then you pick your shooting height, which is whatever your

822
00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:01,160
Speaker 1: comfortable height is when your kneeling or sitting or whatever,

823
00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 1: and you leave that band of latitude not covered in

824
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:10,279
Speaker 1: any brush, and that's where you shoot out of and

825
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:11,759
Speaker 1: you could do a square dance there and they're not

826
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:13,960
Speaker 1: gonna know what you're in there. When I was with

827
00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:15,759
Speaker 1: a lot of work, when I was in Africa. We

828
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:18,000
Speaker 1: hunted out of these. They called him rock hides, but

829
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:22,000
Speaker 1: they're they're basically pit blinds and then build up with

830
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:25,799
Speaker 1: rock to about waist high and then above that is

831
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:28,760
Speaker 1: basically a thatched hut, you know, with little shooting ports

832
00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:30,680
Speaker 1: in it. And so it's kind of wig wam like

833
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:33,359
Speaker 1: but it's just thatched grasses and stuff. And I mean

834
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:35,160
Speaker 1: you'd get away with anything in there. Yeah, this is

835
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:37,880
Speaker 1: like basically, if he was alive now, he used to

836
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:39,719
Speaker 1: build these ground blinds now, and then if he was

837
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:42,080
Speaker 1: alive now, he'd have a pop up blind. Because pop

838
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:44,319
Speaker 1: blind same damn thing. It's like you can get away

839
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:46,319
Speaker 1: with a lot of movement. Somebody should make one and

840
00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:48,319
Speaker 1: call it the synthetic wig wad. Yeah, you can get

841
00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:52,280
Speaker 1: away a lot of movement to pop up blind, you know. Um,

842
00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:55,520
Speaker 1: But anyway, yeah, I've never I've never shot. You put

843
00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:57,520
Speaker 1: a lot more thought into where you're setting up your

844
00:41:57,560 --> 00:42:00,080
Speaker 1: pop up blind. If you had to build that, know

845
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:02,840
Speaker 1: it was you would have you would have a couple

846
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:05,960
Speaker 1: of them around. You'd have a couple of them around.

847
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:08,400
Speaker 1: That would just be in your repertoire. You know, I

848
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:10,520
Speaker 1: can still take it. It's funny because the farm, one

849
00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:11,960
Speaker 1: of the farms you grow up on, I could take

850
00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:15,600
Speaker 1: you where it was like a spot where my old

851
00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 1: man like to sit and there was no appropriate tree there,

852
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:21,200
Speaker 1: and he would just have this, you know, this ground

853
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:23,959
Speaker 1: blinding sitting on it. But you'll you'll sit ground blinds. Yeah,

854
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:25,920
Speaker 1: but I don't build but don you just get whipped

855
00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:29,320
Speaker 1: so bad. I don't build wigwams because they part of it.

856
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:30,680
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm on the move all the time. I

857
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:32,640
Speaker 1: use a climbing tree stand most of the time. I

858
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 1: like to move from place to place. And if you're

859
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:37,399
Speaker 1: gonna stop and build a ground blind, you're actually gonna

860
00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:40,640
Speaker 1: take out a saw and you cut some stuff much

861
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:44,080
Speaker 1: scent and disturbance. So I carry just a little like

862
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:47,520
Speaker 1: little mesh netting on fiberglass poles that I can just

863
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:49,719
Speaker 1: right down in front of me and I try to

864
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:51,880
Speaker 1: back myself up to a dead fall or even a

865
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:55,560
Speaker 1: bunch of dense grasses or something like that. Yeah, it's

866
00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:58,239
Speaker 1: no trouble like a turkey blind set up almost. Yeah,

867
00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:00,359
Speaker 1: that's my system now for them with the kids, that's

868
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:02,560
Speaker 1: what I carry because there's just no way you're gonna

869
00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:06,000
Speaker 1: get them. It's still do you do you wear a

870
00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:08,279
Speaker 1: gilly suit? Yeah? I love gilly suits. There are so

871
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:11,279
Speaker 1: much fun and they're tough with bos though, because you

872
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:14,799
Speaker 1: got all that strands of stuff hanging. That's what I do.

873
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:17,240
Speaker 1: I take scissors and trim it up. But I always

874
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:19,200
Speaker 1: tell guys who are thinking about a gilly suit, as

875
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:21,440
Speaker 1: you practice like crazy in that thing before you go

876
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:23,960
Speaker 1: hunting with it. I mean, even back here at your chest,

877
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:26,880
Speaker 1: you know, you you know, depending on your your body shape,

878
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 1: you know, your bowstring sometimes can get into your chest,

879
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:32,120
Speaker 1: and with all those strands on there at snags, you

880
00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:34,480
Speaker 1: really have to be careful. Now are you? Were you

881
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:37,560
Speaker 1: trained as an ornithology work an ornithology lab? Yeah, work

882
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:39,799
Speaker 1: at the Cornell Lab of Ornithology, which is the like

883
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:44,399
Speaker 1: ornithology lab. Yeah. Yeah, I wasn't trained as an ornithologist

884
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:46,840
Speaker 1: per se. I mean my degrees are in wildlife biology

885
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:49,840
Speaker 1: and ecology and a little bit of forestry. But I

886
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:52,080
Speaker 1: did my master's work on on birds. I worked on

887
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:56,320
Speaker 1: American castrals. We just had a castral in one of

888
00:43:56,360 --> 00:44:01,440
Speaker 1: our shows. Those castrales working while we're hunting. Uh Muelder, Nevada.

889
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:04,080
Speaker 1: A lot of castles in there. Yeah, what were you

890
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:06,520
Speaker 1: looking at with castrels. I was that that was working

891
00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:10,160
Speaker 1: at a place in Pennsylvania called Hawk Mountain Sanctuary where

892
00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:12,239
Speaker 1: they have a bunch of property there, and I was

893
00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:15,040
Speaker 1: looking at just you know, how they select their nest sites.

894
00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:18,960
Speaker 1: Their populations are declining, and trying to figure out, you know,

895
00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:21,879
Speaker 1: what is it about their territories around their nest sites

896
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:24,560
Speaker 1: and the nest sites themselves that makes some of them

897
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:27,600
Speaker 1: really successful and others not successful. Why did nest fail

898
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:30,680
Speaker 1: in those places? You know, because it was just did

899
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:33,680
Speaker 1: you find anything like conclusive? Well, one thing I found

900
00:44:33,719 --> 00:44:37,160
Speaker 1: is that, you know, kestrals do best in past your

901
00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:41,279
Speaker 1: kind of situations. They don't like, you know, row crops, corn, soybeans.

902
00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:43,799
Speaker 1: They just can't hunt very well. And for for the

903
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:45,920
Speaker 1: size of the bird, they have pretty short legs and

904
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:48,120
Speaker 1: so getting down into some of those row crops is

905
00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:51,120
Speaker 1: tough for them. There's, uh, you know, lots of insecticides

906
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:52,719
Speaker 1: used in those places, and they feed on a lot

907
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:55,480
Speaker 1: of insects, so that doesn't work very well. But you know,

908
00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:59,400
Speaker 1: past your situations are great for kestrals. The other huge

909
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:03,080
Speaker 1: thing is starlings. So if you have kestral nests either

910
00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:05,440
Speaker 1: in a natural cavity in a tree or in a

911
00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:08,760
Speaker 1: nest box, and you're pretty close to the farm proper,

912
00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:12,360
Speaker 1: close to the barn where you've got big populations of starlings.

913
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:14,520
Speaker 1: Starlings will just go in there and they take their

914
00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:17,560
Speaker 1: bill and they pierce holes in the kestrel's eggs and

915
00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:19,239
Speaker 1: then it was build their nest right on top of

916
00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:24,360
Speaker 1: the But the castrals will probably just they feed on

917
00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:26,640
Speaker 1: the startling. They could eat the starling outside of the nest,

918
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:28,879
Speaker 1: but they just don't. They're just too timid and they

919
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:31,320
Speaker 1: just don't do it. I spent the time with a

920
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:36,359
Speaker 1: guy that was in the blue bluebird restoration and he

921
00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:40,680
Speaker 1: like typified his work as um just on a large property.

922
00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:42,880
Speaker 1: You know, he was having great success of bluebirds. But

923
00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:44,920
Speaker 1: he was like, if I was going to condense it,

924
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:48,920
Speaker 1: all doubts, I kill English barrels and starlings because that's

925
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:52,320
Speaker 1: that's how you helped bluebirds. There's no doubt about that. Yeah.

926
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:56,120
Speaker 1: So uh, like, is there a certain amount of writing involved?

927
00:45:56,160 --> 00:45:58,680
Speaker 1: And you're like, wow, how did you, like, why how

928
00:45:58,680 --> 00:46:00,439
Speaker 1: did you come to start writing an article and books

929
00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:03,320
Speaker 1: and whatnot? Look, if you got that whole of the

930
00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:06,600
Speaker 1: set of obligations yeah, I just love to write you know,

931
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:08,520
Speaker 1: my you know, when I'm out hunting and I have

932
00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:11,319
Speaker 1: all those experiences, you know things we were talking about,

933
00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:14,120
Speaker 1: seeing all kinds of wildlife and and dealing with bows

934
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:16,560
Speaker 1: and arrows, which I just love. You know, there's a

935
00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:19,759
Speaker 1: whole rich history of archery in all the woods and

936
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:23,000
Speaker 1: there's just so much you know, richness to it, and

937
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:25,479
Speaker 1: I just felt a need to start to write it down.

938
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:27,960
Speaker 1: So I used to write it down for myself. And

939
00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:30,120
Speaker 1: one day I said, well, you know, maybe I'll just

940
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:32,520
Speaker 1: write this down a little more formally and send it

941
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:34,960
Speaker 1: to a magazine. And it took me a few tries

942
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:37,080
Speaker 1: and then boom, one day I got a letter into

943
00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:39,400
Speaker 1: mail and said we've accepted your article and we're going

944
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:44,239
Speaker 1: to send you a check Gigantic magazine. Check Gigantic. I

945
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:46,800
Speaker 1: don't know about that, but I was like, oh yeah,

946
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:48,799
Speaker 1: And I was just I mean, you know, I have

947
00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:50,919
Speaker 1: a full time job. I have a career that I love,

948
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:55,120
Speaker 1: you know, doing conservation biology and wildlife work. But you know,

949
00:46:55,160 --> 00:46:57,600
Speaker 1: this was something that I was really passionate about and

950
00:46:57,680 --> 00:46:59,200
Speaker 1: I and I wanted to do, and so I've just

951
00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:01,520
Speaker 1: done it. Sure, I make a little extra money on it.

952
00:47:01,560 --> 00:47:04,279
Speaker 1: But honestly, it's not enough to It's enough to buy

953
00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:05,640
Speaker 1: a couple of bows and go on a couple of

954
00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:08,080
Speaker 1: hunting trips now and then, but certainly not. I mean

955
00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:11,120
Speaker 1: guys who are freelance writers and make a living at it,

956
00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:13,839
Speaker 1: I don't know how they do it. I mean, you've

957
00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:16,640
Speaker 1: got to be a machine to turn out enough articles,

958
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:19,839
Speaker 1: you know, to really do well at it. But for me,

959
00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:23,160
Speaker 1: it's you know, it feels a niche in my brain.

960
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:26,560
Speaker 1: So what year was the first year? Um? Once you

961
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:31,360
Speaker 1: sell your first article too for publication? Two thousand two,

962
00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:34,040
Speaker 1: maybe two thousand two or two thousand three, somewhere in

963
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:37,440
Speaker 1: that ballpark. And then how so, here's the thing I

964
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:41,560
Speaker 1: always wanted about with writers, Like, like, I think there's

965
00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:44,680
Speaker 1: people who are really into something like your airplane enthusiasts,

966
00:47:44,719 --> 00:47:47,680
Speaker 1: let's say, And that's the thing you are, your airplane enthusiasts,

967
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:50,840
Speaker 1: and then Sunday you write a book about planes. Or

968
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:54,160
Speaker 1: You've got people who are writers and they're like, I'm

969
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:59,239
Speaker 1: gonna write, so here's my subject matter? Right? Were you

970
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:04,359
Speaker 1: the I'm gonna write and you found your outlet through

971
00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:06,880
Speaker 1: traditional archery or you like, I'm going to do traditional

972
00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:09,560
Speaker 1: archery and then eventually like, I know so much, I'm

973
00:48:09,560 --> 00:48:13,240
Speaker 1: going to write it down. No, my, my, my connection

974
00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:16,960
Speaker 1: was definitely through archery, hunting and then writing. Yeah, you're like,

975
00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:21,480
Speaker 1: I'm gonna dispense my uh wisdom or try to like

976
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:23,640
Speaker 1: put some of my thoughts and find out what exactly

977
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:25,360
Speaker 1: they are by putting them on the paper. Yeah. My

978
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:27,640
Speaker 1: freshman year in college I had to take a remedial

979
00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:30,520
Speaker 1: writing course just just to get in. I mean, you

980
00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:32,200
Speaker 1: know I did. Coming out of high school. I was

981
00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:34,799
Speaker 1: no writer. Yeh see, I was gonna write some damn thing. Yeah,

982
00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:36,880
Speaker 1: I mean I knew I was gonna write Yeah. Yeah, No,

983
00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:39,200
Speaker 1: I definitely was not that. But once I figured it out,

984
00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:41,400
Speaker 1: you know, once I figured out what I needed to

985
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:43,480
Speaker 1: do to get better as a writer, I loved it.

986
00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:45,279
Speaker 1: I mean I just hate right into it, into the

987
00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:47,160
Speaker 1: I got into the craft of doing it. And I

988
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:49,480
Speaker 1: write a lot for work too. I mean, I you know,

989
00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:52,400
Speaker 1: a lot of what I do is you know, as

990
00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:56,759
Speaker 1: conservation biology that's focused on strategic planning, and so I

991
00:48:56,880 --> 00:49:00,520
Speaker 1: take science done by other people. I take science that

992
00:49:00,600 --> 00:49:03,960
Speaker 1: we do, you know, in our own team, and you know,

993
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:05,719
Speaker 1: this is what you what you guys were talking about

994
00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:11,799
Speaker 1: earlier and figure out how to reformulate that into conservation

995
00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:15,520
Speaker 1: and management recommendations for wildlife. That's what I really love

996
00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:18,279
Speaker 1: to do because so taking information making an applicable to

997
00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:21,279
Speaker 1: real world situation exactly, and especially to practitioners, you know,

998
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:24,160
Speaker 1: to foresters and land managers and people who are actually

999
00:49:24,160 --> 00:49:25,799
Speaker 1: out on the ground doing it. What I want to

1000
00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:28,719
Speaker 1: do is give them a cookbook. I want to give

1001
00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:30,920
Speaker 1: them a set of best management practices to go out

1002
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:34,719
Speaker 1: and manage for you know, whatever sweetest species we're talking about. Yeah,

1003
00:49:34,719 --> 00:49:36,200
Speaker 1: I can imagine likely you got the guy I always

1004
00:49:36,200 --> 00:49:38,560
Speaker 1: think about my my friend Doug Darren. Um. You know,

1005
00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:42,120
Speaker 1: he's got a background and he manages a family property,

1006
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:45,920
Speaker 1: um and they do egg and they do timberlands and stuff.

1007
00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:49,759
Speaker 1: But he's got all these little battles on, you know,

1008
00:49:49,960 --> 00:49:54,000
Speaker 1: like certain oaks right, like trying to get some native

1009
00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:57,640
Speaker 1: like oak species regenerated. And it's a huge problem because

1010
00:49:57,760 --> 00:50:00,680
Speaker 1: you know, white tails love them. Can't get him up,

1011
00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:03,919
Speaker 1: you know. And imagine like as he's figuring all this out,

1012
00:50:04,520 --> 00:50:09,359
Speaker 1: you also have there's probably resources out there, you know

1013
00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:14,719
Speaker 1: that some guy knows. But just making the the two

1014
00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:16,440
Speaker 1: people come together you know, or like you got the

1015
00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:18,200
Speaker 1: guy who's like trying to do something like on the

1016
00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:21,319
Speaker 1: ground stuff and given that person all those tools of

1017
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:24,319
Speaker 1: what might be known in the academic world, you know,

1018
00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:26,960
Speaker 1: and making sure that all those connections get made. Yeah.

1019
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:29,200
Speaker 1: I mean, for so many years, those connections didn't get

1020
00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:33,560
Speaker 1: made because you know, scientists, by virtue of where they worked,

1021
00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:36,760
Speaker 1: often at academic institutions, weren't you know, they just didn't

1022
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:39,280
Speaker 1: get into making policy. They you know, they were steered

1023
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:41,840
Speaker 1: away from any kind of advocacy and they you know,

1024
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:45,759
Speaker 1: they weren't translating their results into management recommendations. And so

1025
00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:48,160
Speaker 1: much of that has changed now. I mean, you know,

1026
00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:51,000
Speaker 1: where I work, we're encouraged to do that. You know,

1027
00:50:51,080 --> 00:50:53,279
Speaker 1: we really want to take that next step and take

1028
00:50:53,320 --> 00:50:56,080
Speaker 1: the science and and put it on the ground. And

1029
00:50:56,120 --> 00:50:59,960
Speaker 1: you know, cooperative extension units at a universe an extension

1030
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:02,280
Speaker 1: agent exactly. It is meant to be that guy who's

1031
00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:07,640
Speaker 1: the liaison between practice there like land managers in research, right, yeah, exactly.

1032
00:51:07,640 --> 00:51:09,839
Speaker 1: And I mean those were set out initially to try

1033
00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:11,560
Speaker 1: to figure out how you can get your Holstein to

1034
00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:14,640
Speaker 1: produce you know, more pounds of milk. But you know

1035
00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:18,280
Speaker 1: now that's that's widened out into you know, into soil

1036
00:51:18,320 --> 00:51:21,799
Speaker 1: conservation science, and you know, I do non game bird work,

1037
00:51:21,840 --> 00:51:23,920
Speaker 1: and you'd be amazed at the number of people who

1038
00:51:23,960 --> 00:51:25,880
Speaker 1: are they're interested in doing that kind of stuff. They

1039
00:51:25,920 --> 00:51:28,960
Speaker 1: own fifty acres that was once a working farm and

1040
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:31,640
Speaker 1: it's not a working farm anymore. They've got some money

1041
00:51:31,680 --> 00:51:33,440
Speaker 1: and they want to manage for wildlife. You know, they

1042
00:51:33,440 --> 00:51:35,600
Speaker 1: want to they like birds, they want to have you know,

1043
00:51:35,680 --> 00:51:38,799
Speaker 1: some warblers around or whatever it is. Yeah, coming from

1044
00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:43,399
Speaker 1: a like a Western perspective, um, I think it's hard

1045
00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:47,720
Speaker 1: for some people who have a distinctly Western perspective don't

1046
00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:53,240
Speaker 1: realize the importance of private lands conservation on the eastern

1047
00:51:53,239 --> 00:51:57,399
Speaker 1: half of the country where you just don't have that, uh,

1048
00:51:57,719 --> 00:52:00,440
Speaker 1: where you don't have you know, lot of a lot

1049
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:03,719
Speaker 1: of these states in the West fifties, six of the

1050
00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:08,480
Speaker 1: land mass is federal or state forest public land. So

1051
00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:10,520
Speaker 1: you look at like, oh, yeah, all the conservation work,

1052
00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:13,160
Speaker 1: you know, like happening in these areas. You get out

1053
00:52:13,160 --> 00:52:15,799
Speaker 1: on the east and the landowners aren't doing good conservation work.

1054
00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:17,760
Speaker 1: It's not happening. Yeah, I mean some of the species

1055
00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:20,279
Speaker 1: I work with, like golden wing warbler and wood thrush,

1056
00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:23,720
Speaker 1: as much as of their distribution in the United States

1057
00:52:23,840 --> 00:52:26,759
Speaker 1: is on private land. So if you can't do conservation

1058
00:52:26,840 --> 00:52:30,480
Speaker 1: on private land, moving the needle on those populations, you know,

1059
00:52:30,560 --> 00:52:33,680
Speaker 1: trying to stabilize the population and recover them, you just

1060
00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:36,480
Speaker 1: you aren't going to do it on public land. Yeah,

1061
00:52:36,520 --> 00:52:38,200
Speaker 1: I mean, there's plenty of ways that it happens. But

1062
00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:39,839
Speaker 1: you almost like to see you like to see more

1063
00:52:39,880 --> 00:52:47,160
Speaker 1: credit go to those people who um on there. You know,

1064
00:52:47,200 --> 00:52:49,239
Speaker 1: I think it Doug and many many guys like Doug.

1065
00:52:49,280 --> 00:52:52,920
Speaker 1: But those people who are thinking about that stuff, like,

1066
00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:55,000
Speaker 1: in addition, they have an obligation, right Like you have

1067
00:52:55,040 --> 00:52:57,800
Speaker 1: property it's expensive to maintain, you have an obligation to

1068
00:52:58,560 --> 00:53:01,880
Speaker 1: you know, pull resources off there and try to make

1069
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:04,279
Speaker 1: money or break even or whatever your situation is the land.

1070
00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:06,920
Speaker 1: But then people who we talked about earlier about handicapping

1071
00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:11,680
Speaker 1: yourself with certain things, but like handicapping your operation by

1072
00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:15,000
Speaker 1: having some obligation to wildlife on there as well, is

1073
00:53:15,719 --> 00:53:17,920
Speaker 1: this is the way the hell off subject. But it's

1074
00:53:17,960 --> 00:53:20,120
Speaker 1: important work man. But you you're dealing that kind of

1075
00:53:20,120 --> 00:53:22,080
Speaker 1: stuff so all the time, and you're trying to figure

1076
00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:24,560
Speaker 1: out cooperative solutions to a lot of this stuff. Like

1077
00:53:24,920 --> 00:53:27,640
Speaker 1: you know, as a suite of species, grassland birds are

1078
00:53:27,680 --> 00:53:30,959
Speaker 1: declining faster than any other bird group. And a big

1079
00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:33,759
Speaker 1: reason for the decline is just the way in which

1080
00:53:33,800 --> 00:53:37,120
Speaker 1: we take off hay crops. Now we take off more crops,

1081
00:53:37,440 --> 00:53:40,000
Speaker 1: and we take those hay crops off earlier. And so

1082
00:53:40,040 --> 00:53:42,080
Speaker 1: these are these are birds that nest right on the ground.

1083
00:53:42,120 --> 00:53:45,359
Speaker 1: They're obligate ground nesting grassland birds, and they just get

1084
00:53:45,400 --> 00:53:49,759
Speaker 1: hammered by you know, the the hay mowing. And so

1085
00:53:50,040 --> 00:53:52,800
Speaker 1: figuring out how you work with farmers so that farmers

1086
00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:55,319
Speaker 1: can still get their hay crop off, can still feed

1087
00:53:55,320 --> 00:53:58,319
Speaker 1: their animals, can still make money from selling hey, and

1088
00:53:58,480 --> 00:54:01,160
Speaker 1: you can still you know, have a window of time

1089
00:54:01,560 --> 00:54:03,600
Speaker 1: where you can get at least one brood of young

1090
00:54:04,239 --> 00:54:06,200
Speaker 1: you know, of those grassland birds off. I mean that

1091
00:54:06,280 --> 00:54:08,240
Speaker 1: that's the kind of stuff that's fun to me because,

1092
00:54:08,760 --> 00:54:11,040
Speaker 1: you know, working landscapes are that what you know, what

1093
00:54:11,080 --> 00:54:13,840
Speaker 1: this country is built on. You know, landscapes need to

1094
00:54:13,880 --> 00:54:16,160
Speaker 1: continue to work, but they also need to be able

1095
00:54:16,160 --> 00:54:19,120
Speaker 1: to produce wildlife, and so figuring out how to do

1096
00:54:19,160 --> 00:54:21,880
Speaker 1: that is it's an art end of science. I worked

1097
00:54:21,880 --> 00:54:24,000
Speaker 1: for a greenhouse for quite a while when I was

1098
00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:27,520
Speaker 1: in high school, and we would in the summer day,

1099
00:54:27,640 --> 00:54:30,200
Speaker 1: uh in the spring, they'd be hardening off the flat.

1100
00:54:30,239 --> 00:54:31,880
Speaker 1: You know, flats like when you go buy plants, they

1101
00:54:31,920 --> 00:54:34,560
Speaker 1: come into those little like a flat, like a flat

1102
00:54:34,560 --> 00:54:39,560
Speaker 1: of flowers. Right, we'd move hundreds of flats out in

1103
00:54:39,600 --> 00:54:41,840
Speaker 1: the fields. They'd come out. You'd be lowering the conveyor

1104
00:54:41,840 --> 00:54:44,560
Speaker 1: into greenhouse. He'd be empty these entire greenhouses and lining

1105
00:54:44,600 --> 00:54:46,440
Speaker 1: these fields of flats. So just be like a field

1106
00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:49,760
Speaker 1: of flats. Remember one time and we're all they're pulling

1107
00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:52,759
Speaker 1: in thousands of flats and I find a flat that

1108
00:54:52,880 --> 00:54:55,239
Speaker 1: had that killed your head, put its eggs in the

1109
00:54:55,280 --> 00:54:59,600
Speaker 1: cup of the flat. So we pick every flat up

1110
00:55:00,040 --> 00:55:02,080
Speaker 1: and I leave the one flat laying out in this field,

1111
00:55:03,080 --> 00:55:06,080
Speaker 1: and I explained to the owner. I'm like, hey, you

1112
00:55:06,120 --> 00:55:08,040
Speaker 1: know that one out there, I didn't pick it up.

1113
00:55:08,040 --> 00:55:13,000
Speaker 1: Scotto killed your eggs in it. That's not much walks

1114
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:17,360
Speaker 1: out in that field, picks that flatum still setside greenouse.

1115
00:55:18,400 --> 00:55:24,040
Speaker 1: We're like, come on, I mean, I I was so

1116
00:55:24,239 --> 00:55:26,520
Speaker 1: soft as a kid. I remember being struck by that

1117
00:55:26,520 --> 00:55:32,680
Speaker 1: ship is being like dude, come on, so how how

1118
00:55:32,680 --> 00:55:34,480
Speaker 1: long did it? When did you start working on your

1119
00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:36,640
Speaker 1: boat on traditional bowl hunters path, Like, how long is

1120
00:55:36,640 --> 00:55:37,920
Speaker 1: something like that taking when you got a whole of

1121
00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:40,799
Speaker 1: the job you're trying to do. Yeah, And my son

1122
00:55:40,960 --> 00:55:43,319
Speaker 1: was born just as I was starting to work on

1123
00:55:43,360 --> 00:55:45,799
Speaker 1: this thing, and so you know, I was one of

1124
00:55:45,800 --> 00:55:47,720
Speaker 1: those deals where you get up at four in the morning,

1125
00:55:48,160 --> 00:55:50,279
Speaker 1: you know, and you're right for two hours like mad

1126
00:55:50,360 --> 00:55:52,440
Speaker 1: at the kitchen counter until I hear him wake up,

1127
00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:54,080
Speaker 1: and you know, and the whole family thing starts. But

1128
00:55:54,520 --> 00:55:56,200
Speaker 1: I don't know if we start to finish, it's about

1129
00:55:56,200 --> 00:55:58,840
Speaker 1: two years something like that. I mean, I think I

1130
00:55:58,880 --> 00:56:02,560
Speaker 1: turned the manuscript in about I don't know, maybe fourteen

1131
00:56:02,600 --> 00:56:04,840
Speaker 1: months or something like that. And then there's that whole

1132
00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:08,120
Speaker 1: you know, editing process and production you know, you know

1133
00:56:08,200 --> 00:56:10,520
Speaker 1: the drill, you know that goes into all of that.

1134
00:56:10,960 --> 00:56:12,839
Speaker 1: So who do you man, like, who's the most who's

1135
00:56:12,880 --> 00:56:14,480
Speaker 1: the best audience for it? In your mind? Is it?

1136
00:56:14,520 --> 00:56:18,719
Speaker 1: Are you thinking like, uh um, is it meant to

1137
00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:21,040
Speaker 1: be for people looking to get into it? For dudes

1138
00:56:21,080 --> 00:56:24,920
Speaker 1: that are already into it? Yeah, it's everybody. That's a

1139
00:56:24,920 --> 00:56:27,440
Speaker 1: tough question. Well, this is one of those first books

1140
00:56:27,480 --> 00:56:29,560
Speaker 1: to where you know you're throwing the kitchen sink at

1141
00:56:29,560 --> 00:56:31,399
Speaker 1: it a little bit, you know, because it's the first

1142
00:56:31,400 --> 00:56:33,960
Speaker 1: time I've done it, So I guess I have I

1143
00:56:34,040 --> 00:56:37,440
Speaker 1: have three audiences in mind. I have traditional bow hunters,

1144
00:56:37,480 --> 00:56:39,719
Speaker 1: you know, transitional archers who are already into it, and

1145
00:56:39,760 --> 00:56:42,239
Speaker 1: there's a ton of information in here that I think

1146
00:56:42,280 --> 00:56:44,799
Speaker 1: they'll they'll like and can benefit from, lots of how

1147
00:56:44,880 --> 00:56:48,239
Speaker 1: to stuff. It's for compound shooters who want to pick

1148
00:56:48,320 --> 00:56:50,279
Speaker 1: up a traditional bow. And traditional archery is one of

1149
00:56:50,280 --> 00:56:53,520
Speaker 1: the fastest growing sports that we have. I mean, people

1150
00:56:53,520 --> 00:56:56,040
Speaker 1: are really coming to it and there's not a lot

1151
00:56:56,080 --> 00:56:59,200
Speaker 1: of good information out there about how you make the switch. So,

1152
00:56:59,320 --> 00:57:02,040
Speaker 1: you know, compound shooters wanting to switch the traditional archery

1153
00:57:02,120 --> 00:57:06,120
Speaker 1: is is another one. Another audience. Like their challenges or

1154
00:57:06,160 --> 00:57:08,279
Speaker 1: what they're facing are different than someone who's got no

1155
00:57:08,440 --> 00:57:11,600
Speaker 1: archery background coming into it. Yeah, it's a little different.

1156
00:57:11,600 --> 00:57:14,160
Speaker 1: And just you know, what boat do I buy? I mean,

1157
00:57:14,200 --> 00:57:16,520
Speaker 1: you know there's there's hundreds of bowlers out there now,

1158
00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:17,840
Speaker 1: you know, do you get a long boat, do you

1159
00:57:17,880 --> 00:57:20,640
Speaker 1: get a recurve? Do I spend a thousand bucks on

1160
00:57:20,680 --> 00:57:23,120
Speaker 1: a custom bow? Or should I just go buy a

1161
00:57:24,040 --> 00:57:26,960
Speaker 1: production boat? Now you come down and be like and

1162
00:57:27,080 --> 00:57:29,200
Speaker 1: help people. Are you just try to muddy the waters

1163
00:57:30,040 --> 00:57:32,520
Speaker 1: in your boat? I try to help people, know, so

1164
00:57:32,600 --> 00:57:36,320
Speaker 1: you're like specific recommendations, well specific as you can get,

1165
00:57:36,360 --> 00:57:38,760
Speaker 1: I mean without being brandy is different. I mean, I'm

1166
00:57:38,800 --> 00:57:42,400
Speaker 1: looking across the table here at Yanni, here what six one?

1167
00:57:42,520 --> 00:57:45,840
Speaker 1: Probably you know you're you're a big guy, and you

1168
00:57:45,840 --> 00:57:48,280
Speaker 1: know your your whole situation is going to be different

1169
00:57:48,320 --> 00:57:51,200
Speaker 1: than mine. And so when I make recommendations about what

1170
00:57:51,280 --> 00:57:54,760
Speaker 1: boat to go with, you really have to there's some generalizations. Yeah,

1171
00:57:54,800 --> 00:57:56,640
Speaker 1: but okay, I guess kind of what I'm getting at

1172
00:57:56,640 --> 00:58:00,840
Speaker 1: is this in the in the how to like we

1173
00:58:00,880 --> 00:58:03,360
Speaker 1: did some how to stuff, like some like how how

1174
00:58:03,400 --> 00:58:06,480
Speaker 1: to books and and there you want to be like, oh, yeah,

1175
00:58:06,520 --> 00:58:07,880
Speaker 1: you know, a good pair of boots should do X,

1176
00:58:07,960 --> 00:58:11,240
Speaker 1: Y and Z, right, So you can leave it at that,

1177
00:58:11,760 --> 00:58:15,880
Speaker 1: or you could say, for instance, this is a hell

1178
00:58:15,920 --> 00:58:19,520
Speaker 1: of a boot, like do you help people where you're

1179
00:58:19,560 --> 00:58:20,880
Speaker 1: kind of like, listen, I don't a whole bunch of

1180
00:58:20,920 --> 00:58:25,120
Speaker 1: hunting killed a bunch of game. There's a lot of reasons,

1181
00:58:25,160 --> 00:58:27,440
Speaker 1: there's a lot of arguments foreign against all this kind

1182
00:58:27,440 --> 00:58:30,480
Speaker 1: of stuff. If you're on defense, go recurve, not long bow,

1183
00:58:30,640 --> 00:58:31,960
Speaker 1: or you just kind of say, like, here's all the

1184
00:58:32,000 --> 00:58:35,800
Speaker 1: ship to consider. Yeah, I guess I think I mostly

1185
00:58:35,880 --> 00:58:38,640
Speaker 1: just say here's all the ship to consider a little

1186
00:58:38,680 --> 00:58:41,800
Speaker 1: more pointed than that, you know, But I definitely don't say,

1187
00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:44,360
Speaker 1: if you're making a switch from compound, yeah, absolutely have

1188
00:58:44,400 --> 00:58:47,560
Speaker 1: to shoot a recurve because that's the pathway then to

1189
00:58:47,600 --> 00:58:50,000
Speaker 1: the long bow or something. I just don't believe that.

1190
00:58:50,040 --> 00:58:52,120
Speaker 1: I think everybody's got to make their own decision, and

1191
00:58:52,160 --> 00:58:54,480
Speaker 1: I think, you know, if you give them good information,

1192
00:58:54,520 --> 00:58:56,400
Speaker 1: they can do it. People are smart, I mean, they

1193
00:58:56,400 --> 00:58:59,840
Speaker 1: can figure this stuff out, you know, so I try

1194
00:58:59,840 --> 00:59:02,280
Speaker 1: to steer them down the right path. Now do you

1195
00:59:02,320 --> 00:59:06,160
Speaker 1: feel that, Uh, do you find yourself trying to talk

1196
00:59:06,320 --> 00:59:09,440
Speaker 1: people in the traditional are you like, if you're interested,

1197
00:59:09,680 --> 00:59:13,760
Speaker 1: here's a resource. Yeah. I I talked to try to

1198
00:59:13,800 --> 00:59:16,840
Speaker 1: talk people into it in the sense that I'm really

1199
00:59:16,840 --> 00:59:20,320
Speaker 1: passionate about it, and I love, you know, the leather

1200
00:59:20,400 --> 00:59:22,840
Speaker 1: and the bone and the wood and all the stuff

1201
00:59:22,880 --> 00:59:25,959
Speaker 1: that just comes with it. To me, that gets Yeah,

1202
00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:30,440
Speaker 1: I didn't love you know, it's just so cool. But

1203
00:59:30,520 --> 00:59:32,800
Speaker 1: on the other hand, you mean, you gotta have to

1204
00:59:32,840 --> 00:59:36,080
Speaker 1: have a lot of time to invest in practicing, you know,

1205
00:59:36,200 --> 00:59:39,120
Speaker 1: every day and have a place to hunt, and really,

1206
00:59:39,240 --> 00:59:42,080
Speaker 1: you know, not just time practicing, but you're not gonna

1207
00:59:42,120 --> 00:59:44,760
Speaker 1: go shoot a squirrel or a rabbit or a deer

1208
00:59:44,760 --> 00:59:46,800
Speaker 1: every time you go out with a traditional bow. It's

1209
00:59:46,800 --> 00:59:49,840
Speaker 1: gonna be every tenth time you go out, or every

1210
00:59:49,840 --> 00:59:53,920
Speaker 1: fiftieth time. And so if you're working, you know, seventy

1211
00:59:53,960 --> 00:59:56,080
Speaker 1: hours a week at some job and you have three

1212
00:59:56,200 --> 00:59:59,000
Speaker 1: kids and you really want to learn how to hunt,

1213
00:59:59,160 --> 01:00:00,600
Speaker 1: or you're already a hu her and you just want

1214
01:00:00,600 --> 01:00:03,280
Speaker 1: to do something a little different, it's probably not the

1215
01:00:03,400 --> 01:00:05,560
Speaker 1: right thing for you at that time. So no, I

1216
01:00:05,560 --> 01:00:07,880
Speaker 1: don't I don't you know, take people by the shoulders

1217
01:00:07,880 --> 01:00:10,040
Speaker 1: and say, hey, you gotta do this. Yeah. That's the

1218
01:00:10,040 --> 01:00:11,520
Speaker 1: thing though, because people are saying to me like, oh,

1219
01:00:11,600 --> 01:00:15,919
Speaker 1: so you think that everyone who I'll go hunting, I'm like, no, no,

1220
01:00:15,960 --> 01:00:19,640
Speaker 1: not at all. No. If you're interested in, I'd love

1221
01:00:19,680 --> 01:00:21,600
Speaker 1: to have a chat with you, but I'm not gonna

1222
01:00:21,600 --> 01:00:24,040
Speaker 1: like try to convince you to be interested in. There

1223
01:00:24,080 --> 01:00:27,400
Speaker 1: has no doubt. I'm amazed at the number of you know,

1224
01:00:27,560 --> 01:00:31,320
Speaker 1: this whole notion of you know, adult onset hunters. You

1225
01:00:31,360 --> 01:00:33,800
Speaker 1: know people who are you know, who have never hunted

1226
01:00:33,800 --> 01:00:36,040
Speaker 1: there in their twenties or thirties, or you know, maybe

1227
01:00:36,080 --> 01:00:38,760
Speaker 1: even forties or fifties, and they're coming to hunting. And

1228
01:00:38,800 --> 01:00:41,280
Speaker 1: we're seeing that so much in New York State, you know,

1229
01:00:41,360 --> 01:00:43,160
Speaker 1: coming out of out of the city and out of

1230
01:00:43,200 --> 01:00:46,680
Speaker 1: other urban areas, people who have been introduced to hunting

1231
01:00:46,680 --> 01:00:49,240
Speaker 1: through food and through meat eater. And you know, I

1232
01:00:49,280 --> 01:00:51,560
Speaker 1: get it all the time. I work at Cornell University

1233
01:00:51,600 --> 01:00:54,600
Speaker 1: where I'm surrounded by students that are coming from all

1234
01:00:54,640 --> 01:00:57,240
Speaker 1: over the country and they hear through the grapevine that

1235
01:00:57,280 --> 01:00:59,680
Speaker 1: I'm a hunter, and then I'm a traditional bow hunter,

1236
01:00:59,800 --> 01:01:01,960
Speaker 1: and they'll seek me out and come to me and say, look,

1237
01:01:01,960 --> 01:01:04,040
Speaker 1: you know, I've never done this before. And and by

1238
01:01:04,080 --> 01:01:06,160
Speaker 1: the way, I don't tell my classmates I'm interested in this,

1239
01:01:06,200 --> 01:01:11,400
Speaker 1: but I really wanted to. I really want to check

1240
01:01:11,440 --> 01:01:13,840
Speaker 1: this out kind of thing. And I'm just that did

1241
01:01:13,920 --> 01:01:18,360
Speaker 1: that never happened ten years ago? And yeah, I shouldn't

1242
01:01:18,360 --> 01:01:20,680
Speaker 1: say never, but it didn't happen often, not like it

1243
01:01:20,760 --> 01:01:23,840
Speaker 1: is now. Good. No, there's no doubt about it. In

1244
01:01:23,880 --> 01:01:26,479
Speaker 1: my mind. The biggest argument against I like, I own

1245
01:01:26,520 --> 01:01:29,320
Speaker 1: a long bowl, I own a recurve. Never killed a

1246
01:01:29,320 --> 01:01:33,960
Speaker 1: big game animal with a long bowler recurve. Yanni and

1247
01:01:34,000 --> 01:01:36,080
Speaker 1: I talked about this not long ago. It's like my

1248
01:01:36,200 --> 01:01:38,920
Speaker 1: thing is like my primary goal as a hunter. It's

1249
01:01:38,960 --> 01:01:44,200
Speaker 1: like primary goal as a hunter and fisherman. Uh, you know,

1250
01:01:44,200 --> 01:01:46,560
Speaker 1: I got a million secondaries, or I guess you only

1251
01:01:46,560 --> 01:01:50,160
Speaker 1: have one secondary. I got the second third, four fift six, right.

1252
01:01:50,400 --> 01:01:54,160
Speaker 1: Primary goal is that I don't did uh I have

1253
01:01:54,280 --> 01:01:56,480
Speaker 1: enough meat where when my family's eating at home, we

1254
01:01:56,520 --> 01:01:58,840
Speaker 1: have wild game meat. That's like my number one thing,

1255
01:01:59,240 --> 01:02:02,120
Speaker 1: so all else falls from that. It's like I want

1256
01:02:02,120 --> 01:02:05,240
Speaker 1: to be that when we're eating in the Ronella household.

1257
01:02:05,640 --> 01:02:07,760
Speaker 1: Like when I cooked dinner at night, I go into

1258
01:02:07,760 --> 01:02:10,800
Speaker 1: my freezer and I got enough game meeting there where,

1259
01:02:11,560 --> 01:02:14,880
Speaker 1: you know, and I think that, Um, if I knew,

1260
01:02:14,920 --> 01:02:16,880
Speaker 1: I was gonna fulfill that all the time, and I

1261
01:02:17,440 --> 01:02:20,600
Speaker 1: fulfill it quite handily right now, primarily because of the

1262
01:02:20,600 --> 01:02:24,520
Speaker 1: particulars of my my occupation. I have absolutely no problem

1263
01:02:24,560 --> 01:02:26,520
Speaker 1: doing that. But let's say I got into some other

1264
01:02:26,600 --> 01:02:28,960
Speaker 1: line of work down the road that really limited how

1265
01:02:29,040 --> 01:02:31,320
Speaker 1: much time I spent outdoors, and I was looking at

1266
01:02:31,360 --> 01:02:33,080
Speaker 1: that long bowl as much as I'm like, man, I

1267
01:02:33,080 --> 01:02:37,040
Speaker 1: told I respected, right, I respected no end Um, I

1268
01:02:37,080 --> 01:02:39,320
Speaker 1: got kind of like some family ties of that stuff.

1269
01:02:39,760 --> 01:02:43,360
Speaker 1: I get it. It's it's like a higher art. But

1270
01:02:43,480 --> 01:02:45,040
Speaker 1: I look at something like but I know, if I

1271
01:02:45,160 --> 01:02:47,040
Speaker 1: you know with that righte me, I'm gonna be piling

1272
01:02:47,080 --> 01:02:49,880
Speaker 1: I'm piling up the pounds of meat. I mean, we

1273
01:02:49,960 --> 01:02:52,320
Speaker 1: eat a ton of innocent I mean, it's almost the

1274
01:02:52,320 --> 01:02:54,960
Speaker 1: only meat we eat. And so you know, my goal

1275
01:02:55,040 --> 01:02:57,320
Speaker 1: every year is to stock the freezer too. And it

1276
01:02:57,360 --> 01:02:59,440
Speaker 1: takes a lot of time with a long bower recurve,

1277
01:02:59,520 --> 01:03:00,680
Speaker 1: but you can do. But I mean, I have three

1278
01:03:00,680 --> 01:03:03,120
Speaker 1: deer in the freezer right now, and you know that's

1279
01:03:03,480 --> 01:03:06,160
Speaker 1: a that's a good jump on the situation. By the

1280
01:03:06,160 --> 01:03:08,080
Speaker 1: time the season is over, I hope to have two

1281
01:03:08,160 --> 01:03:10,280
Speaker 1: or three more. And you know, in battle debtal, you

1282
01:03:10,280 --> 01:03:12,720
Speaker 1: know there's a that's my wife and I have three

1283
01:03:12,800 --> 01:03:14,720
Speaker 1: year old son, and I have a daughter who's just

1284
01:03:14,760 --> 01:03:17,200
Speaker 1: two months old, so she's not eating venison yet, but

1285
01:03:17,240 --> 01:03:20,880
Speaker 1: she will be soon. And uh, yeah, you got if

1286
01:03:20,880 --> 01:03:22,959
Speaker 1: you're pointing away a few deer, you're loving it. Yeah,

1287
01:03:23,240 --> 01:03:25,120
Speaker 1: and you know that I mentioned earlier, But you got

1288
01:03:25,160 --> 01:03:26,720
Speaker 1: a lot. But again, you got a lot of days

1289
01:03:26,720 --> 01:03:29,120
Speaker 1: into it. Yeah, hunting three days, huge amount of time.

1290
01:03:29,160 --> 01:03:32,520
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I my funny. We were cleaning

1291
01:03:32,520 --> 01:03:34,520
Speaker 1: out some stuff at the house a couple of weeks ago,

1292
01:03:34,880 --> 01:03:36,880
Speaker 1: and my wife ran across one of my old hunting

1293
01:03:36,920 --> 01:03:39,120
Speaker 1: journals and she starts leaping through and she was like,

1294
01:03:39,640 --> 01:03:44,960
Speaker 1: holy shit, you hunted every single day from October one

1295
01:03:45,120 --> 01:03:47,640
Speaker 1: to almost the end of November. It's like, yeah, I

1296
01:03:47,680 --> 01:03:50,080
Speaker 1: either get a morning hunt in or an afternoon hunt

1297
01:03:50,240 --> 01:03:53,400
Speaker 1: for every day. I mean, I don't do it anymore

1298
01:03:53,400 --> 01:03:55,400
Speaker 1: because I have a family and I just can't. But

1299
01:03:55,560 --> 01:03:57,120
Speaker 1: when I was single, I when I was out there

1300
01:03:57,120 --> 01:03:59,480
Speaker 1: all the time. But you mentioned about phil in the

1301
01:03:59,480 --> 01:04:02,120
Speaker 1: freezer those times that I was pulling the muzzle loader

1302
01:04:02,160 --> 01:04:04,320
Speaker 1: out in the last twenty five years, it was at

1303
01:04:04,320 --> 01:04:06,080
Speaker 1: the end of the season and the freezer was empty.

1304
01:04:06,160 --> 01:04:11,920
Speaker 1: So that's your freezer filling. Like, baby, I'm getting serious

1305
01:04:12,560 --> 01:04:18,440
Speaker 1: getting out this here flint lock. That's crazy. Take no prisoners, Yeah,

1306
01:04:19,920 --> 01:04:23,560
Speaker 1: prisoners today. Man, I got this souped up fire over

1307
01:04:25,000 --> 01:04:27,680
Speaker 1: minds all rusty too, and the scopes are the scope

1308
01:04:27,720 --> 01:04:30,520
Speaker 1: of stocks all banged up, a system mess. So would

1309
01:04:30,560 --> 01:04:32,360
Speaker 1: you do you ever think you're right about hunting with

1310
01:04:32,360 --> 01:04:34,720
Speaker 1: flint locks. That's a whole damn thing too. Man. Yeah,

1311
01:04:34,920 --> 01:04:37,680
Speaker 1: I don't know, I love My dad got me into

1312
01:04:37,680 --> 01:04:40,160
Speaker 1: flint locks, and I just love doing it. And yeah

1313
01:04:40,160 --> 01:04:43,080
Speaker 1: maybe someday. Yeah, you gotta have nerves to steel because

1314
01:04:43,080 --> 01:04:45,240
Speaker 1: you need to hold steady between the first boom and

1315
01:04:45,280 --> 01:04:48,480
Speaker 1: the second boom. Most people the first boom they got

1316
01:04:48,520 --> 01:04:51,680
Speaker 1: the muzzle six inches up in the air. You gotta

1317
01:04:51,720 --> 01:04:56,200
Speaker 1: sit tight. Boom. Well, when you get those really delayed

1318
01:04:56,240 --> 01:04:58,959
Speaker 1: fires to you know, where the flint hits, the friends

1319
01:04:59,000 --> 01:05:03,040
Speaker 1: in the powder in the pan flashes and your hold, hold, hold,

1320
01:05:03,480 --> 01:05:05,880
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden boom. You know, by that time,

1321
01:05:05,920 --> 01:05:08,200
Speaker 1: you're well off what you were going to shoot at. Yeah.

1322
01:05:08,200 --> 01:05:10,400
Speaker 1: I've done some mess around with those back. I like

1323
01:05:10,480 --> 01:05:13,720
Speaker 1: that stuff. But yeah, it's fun. But but do you

1324
01:05:13,800 --> 01:05:15,040
Speaker 1: what do you think you're gonna do? You think you

1325
01:05:15,120 --> 01:05:18,120
Speaker 1: do more books? Yeah, definitely thinking about another book and

1326
01:05:18,640 --> 01:05:20,160
Speaker 1: working on it now. I was working on in the

1327
01:05:20,200 --> 01:05:23,040
Speaker 1: hotel room a little bit and just kind of framing

1328
01:05:23,120 --> 01:05:25,560
Speaker 1: it and getting some stuff on paper. At the moment,

1329
01:05:25,760 --> 01:05:28,680
Speaker 1: it's not going to be about bow hunting. No, it's

1330
01:05:28,720 --> 01:05:32,640
Speaker 1: gonna be it's gonna be about hunting. Uh. It's I

1331
01:05:32,720 --> 01:05:35,520
Speaker 1: found in writing this book that I like writing about people,

1332
01:05:36,000 --> 01:05:38,960
Speaker 1: you know, I love writing about natural history and hunting

1333
01:05:39,000 --> 01:05:41,120
Speaker 1: and all that stuff. But I really love writing about people,

1334
01:05:41,520 --> 01:05:44,960
Speaker 1: and I'm passionate about conservationist and the whole hunter concert

1335
01:05:45,080 --> 01:05:49,200
Speaker 1: conservationist movement. And it strikes me that, you know, we

1336
01:05:49,360 --> 01:05:52,360
Speaker 1: hear all the time about this whole suite of people

1337
01:05:52,880 --> 01:05:58,040
Speaker 1: who you know, who founded the Hunter Consolvations, different pin shows,

1338
01:05:58,120 --> 01:06:01,480
Speaker 1: r now, all those fells all. Yeah. I've only in

1339
01:06:01,480 --> 01:06:04,040
Speaker 1: the last year really started to like just dedicate a

1340
01:06:04,160 --> 01:06:06,920
Speaker 1: little bit of free time of like learning more about

1341
01:06:07,040 --> 01:06:10,680
Speaker 1: that the name. But there's a whole bunch of others too,

1342
01:06:10,880 --> 01:06:13,960
Speaker 1: like FDR you know, did a whole bunch of you know,

1343
01:06:13,960 --> 01:06:17,360
Speaker 1: found in the Civilian Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, some

1344
01:06:17,400 --> 01:06:20,240
Speaker 1: of the like the New Deal Works. He had a

1345
01:06:20,280 --> 01:06:23,160
Speaker 1: hand in founding National Fish and Wildlife Foundation, and there's

1346
01:06:23,200 --> 01:06:26,360
Speaker 1: all sorts of stuff other He's an unsung hero if

1347
01:06:26,360 --> 01:06:28,240
Speaker 1: he in fact is a hero, absolutely no one talks

1348
01:06:28,240 --> 01:06:32,680
Speaker 1: about that guy. So don't talk about I mean felt

1349
01:06:32,680 --> 01:06:33,800
Speaker 1: I had to get a little bit tangled up in

1350
01:06:33,840 --> 01:06:35,640
Speaker 1: World War Two, but I mean no one talks about

1351
01:06:35,640 --> 01:06:38,480
Speaker 1: it through the lens of conservation. Conservation. Yeah, you just

1352
01:06:38,520 --> 01:06:40,400
Speaker 1: put your finger on what I'm what what the book

1353
01:06:40,440 --> 01:06:43,120
Speaker 1: is going to be about It's my working title is

1354
01:06:43,520 --> 01:06:49,120
Speaker 1: his Red Hands, Green Hearts stories of American hunters and conservationists,

1355
01:06:49,240 --> 01:06:51,040
Speaker 1: and so what I want and I want to tell

1356
01:06:51,120 --> 01:06:53,600
Speaker 1: their stories how it's I don't want to just do

1357
01:06:53,880 --> 01:06:56,560
Speaker 1: like you know, Roosevelt did X, Y and Z. Why

1358
01:06:56,600 --> 01:06:59,400
Speaker 1: did he do it? What wres? What his hunting experiences? Like?

1359
01:06:59,440 --> 01:07:01,920
Speaker 1: What how of Leopold hunt? I mean, you know, I've

1360
01:07:02,520 --> 01:07:06,200
Speaker 1: Leopold actually from what I've read, wasn't a very successful hunter,

1361
01:07:06,240 --> 01:07:08,560
Speaker 1: and his wife actually out hunted him a lot. But

1362
01:07:08,640 --> 01:07:10,520
Speaker 1: those stories are now he seems to do a little

1363
01:07:10,520 --> 01:07:13,280
Speaker 1: bit of blundering in the game. Yeah, yeah, exactly. He

1364
01:07:13,360 --> 01:07:15,200
Speaker 1: kind of was that was like the kind of take

1365
01:07:15,240 --> 01:07:19,160
Speaker 1: the long walk. Yeah, and like, well to come up

1366
01:07:19,160 --> 01:07:21,160
Speaker 1: with some of the stuff that that he said, you

1367
01:07:21,200 --> 01:07:24,360
Speaker 1: had to have a long walk exactly. Yeah. I'm as

1368
01:07:24,400 --> 01:07:26,480
Speaker 1: you probably walked past a lot of ships like deep

1369
01:07:26,480 --> 01:07:29,000
Speaker 1: and thought and then he realized, I'll stand. So I

1370
01:07:29,040 --> 01:07:31,160
Speaker 1: just want to I want to find some of those

1371
01:07:31,160 --> 01:07:36,080
Speaker 1: figures too, like FDR, like um Stewart, you do all uh,

1372
01:07:36,120 --> 01:07:39,080
Speaker 1: you know some of these people who who were hunters

1373
01:07:39,240 --> 01:07:42,800
Speaker 1: and did great conservation work but are completely unsung. You know,

1374
01:07:42,840 --> 01:07:44,280
Speaker 1: we just don't know about him, and I want to

1375
01:07:44,280 --> 01:07:48,120
Speaker 1: tell their stories. Yeah, that's interesting. Now Stackpole Books is

1376
01:07:48,200 --> 01:07:49,560
Speaker 1: kind of cool because they do so much stuff in

1377
01:07:49,560 --> 01:07:51,919
Speaker 1: the in the outdoor space. You've been around a long time,

1378
01:07:52,160 --> 01:07:53,480
Speaker 1: have you like to work with those guys? And I

1379
01:07:53,520 --> 01:07:58,800
Speaker 1: guess you can't say if you didn't know. They've been

1380
01:07:58,840 --> 01:08:01,560
Speaker 1: great fantas stick I mean they've been such like a

1381
01:08:01,600 --> 01:08:06,080
Speaker 1: constant and UH as far as like like uh natural

1382
01:08:06,200 --> 01:08:12,280
Speaker 1: history stuff and hunting and fishing spaces and venture traveling. Yeah.

1383
01:08:12,320 --> 01:08:14,960
Speaker 1: I mean it was funny because when I had the

1384
01:08:15,000 --> 01:08:17,840
Speaker 1: idea for this book, and I wrote the proposal and

1385
01:08:17,880 --> 01:08:20,040
Speaker 1: I sent it out to a bunch of different publishers

1386
01:08:20,479 --> 01:08:23,240
Speaker 1: and Stackpole was top on my list, and I never

1387
01:08:23,280 --> 01:08:26,040
Speaker 1: heard back from them, and so I was picked him

1388
01:08:26,040 --> 01:08:29,479
Speaker 1: again and never heard anything. And I was literally just

1389
01:08:29,560 --> 01:08:33,120
Speaker 1: about ready to sign a contract with someone else when

1390
01:08:33,840 --> 01:08:38,479
Speaker 1: Judas Snell from UH Stackpole returned one of my Yeah,

1391
01:08:38,640 --> 01:08:41,640
Speaker 1: and she she said, she said, absolutely, we're interested in

1392
01:08:41,680 --> 01:08:43,400
Speaker 1: your book. I'm so sorry I haven't been able to

1393
01:08:43,439 --> 01:08:45,320
Speaker 1: get back to you. And it was just like boom,

1394
01:08:45,360 --> 01:08:47,400
Speaker 1: everything fell into place after that, and so he was

1395
01:08:47,640 --> 01:08:50,719
Speaker 1: I mean she was literally hours or a day away

1396
01:08:50,760 --> 01:08:53,640
Speaker 1: from you know, where I was from from you know

1397
01:08:53,720 --> 01:08:57,080
Speaker 1: what's going with someone else? So where what's the best

1398
01:08:57,080 --> 01:08:59,360
Speaker 1: way people? What's the best way people find your book?

1399
01:08:59,360 --> 01:09:02,040
Speaker 1: I'm gets on Amazon right, It's on Amazon. Um you

1400
01:09:02,080 --> 01:09:04,200
Speaker 1: can buy it there, but you can also buy it

1401
01:09:04,240 --> 01:09:08,720
Speaker 1: at my website, which is Traditional Spirit Outdoors dot com. Well, all,

1402
01:09:08,920 --> 01:09:11,000
Speaker 1: what what kind of stuff is on your website? It's

1403
01:09:11,000 --> 01:09:12,880
Speaker 1: stuff about the book and other stuff. I do a

1404
01:09:12,920 --> 01:09:16,280
Speaker 1: lot of freelance writing, and you know, I'll do writing

1405
01:09:16,320 --> 01:09:19,160
Speaker 1: for people's websites, kind of content development, that kind of thing.

1406
01:09:19,720 --> 01:09:21,840
Speaker 1: And do you do other ship? Like are you nap?

1407
01:09:21,920 --> 01:09:24,759
Speaker 1: Do you nap broadheads? And do arrow shafts and stuff?

1408
01:09:24,920 --> 01:09:28,240
Speaker 1: Make arrows? But I don't do any napping. You haven't shot.

1409
01:09:28,280 --> 01:09:30,040
Speaker 1: You haven't napped ahead and tried to shoot something with it.

1410
01:09:30,200 --> 01:09:32,760
Speaker 1: I've tried. You say, you make an arrow? What do

1411
01:09:32,840 --> 01:09:35,800
Speaker 1: you what's what's your blanks? Late? Yeah, I'm starting with

1412
01:09:35,840 --> 01:09:38,640
Speaker 1: a starting with just a wooden shaft unfinished, you know,

1413
01:09:38,720 --> 01:09:41,880
Speaker 1: I buy a wooden shaft and then go from there. Seater.

1414
01:09:42,040 --> 01:09:44,160
Speaker 1: I like ASH. You know, Ash is a little heavier.

1415
01:09:45,080 --> 01:09:46,960
Speaker 1: In your book, you talked about the fletching and the

1416
01:09:47,000 --> 01:09:50,840
Speaker 1: fletching process. Yeah, that's fun. Stuff. Yeah, for sure. So

1417
01:09:51,240 --> 01:09:55,680
Speaker 1: say the website again, it's uh traditional Spirit outdoors dot com.

1418
01:09:55,840 --> 01:09:57,439
Speaker 1: If you go on area, they probably buy a signed

1419
01:09:57,479 --> 01:09:59,200
Speaker 1: book off right, they can get a sign book. And

1420
01:09:59,240 --> 01:10:01,200
Speaker 1: the other thing they can do is I give ten

1421
01:10:01,240 --> 01:10:04,599
Speaker 1: percent of all books sales back to back country hunters

1422
01:10:04,640 --> 01:10:07,320
Speaker 1: and anglers. And so when you remember the cover price,

1423
01:10:08,080 --> 01:10:10,400
Speaker 1: the cover price when you're buying book, you give, you

1424
01:10:10,439 --> 01:10:12,320
Speaker 1: give two dollars and ten cents to b h A.

1425
01:10:13,640 --> 01:10:17,160
Speaker 1: It's generous, you know. It's I think conservation is so

1426
01:10:17,640 --> 01:10:24,280
Speaker 1: pissed ance at Patagoni they only give one percent. You're

1427
01:10:24,600 --> 01:10:30,479
Speaker 1: really gone on those boys. It's dead trout pictures. It

1428
01:10:30,479 --> 01:10:32,000
Speaker 1: comes from a place of love. It comes to a

1429
01:10:32,000 --> 01:10:34,599
Speaker 1: place of love. I've always like, I know a lot

1430
01:10:34,640 --> 01:10:37,320
Speaker 1: of guys hunting patagon I like Padagon. You actually met

1431
01:10:37,320 --> 01:10:39,040
Speaker 1: a feller that works a Padagon not long I was

1432
01:10:39,040 --> 01:10:41,800
Speaker 1: tell him about that. It's just that I feel like

1433
01:10:41,880 --> 01:10:45,560
Speaker 1: they've you know, you got this like patriarch kind of

1434
01:10:45,600 --> 01:10:48,240
Speaker 1: started this company and he's like, uh, he likes to

1435
01:10:48,240 --> 01:10:50,200
Speaker 1: do a little hunting and fishing and whatnot. And I

1436
01:10:50,240 --> 01:10:52,719
Speaker 1: just feel like they haven't got they haven't got the member,

1437
01:10:53,200 --> 01:10:57,120
Speaker 1: they haven't got trolling for him or a representative to

1438
01:10:57,120 --> 01:10:59,120
Speaker 1: give us a call. At one point that he was

1439
01:10:59,160 --> 01:11:02,640
Speaker 1: a closeted hunter. I think that's that's not true. I

1440
01:11:02,640 --> 01:11:06,479
Speaker 1: think people he's not closeted. He like he's like open

1441
01:11:06,520 --> 01:11:08,680
Speaker 1: about because he did. He was just recently profiled in

1442
01:11:08,680 --> 01:11:10,800
Speaker 1: the New Yorker and uh and then there he talks

1443
01:11:10,800 --> 01:11:13,040
Speaker 1: about a bit about hunting. He's not closeted. But I

1444
01:11:13,040 --> 01:11:18,360
Speaker 1: thought he's closeted. Yeah, I don't know anyhow what was

1445
01:11:18,400 --> 01:11:21,559
Speaker 1: I saying? But why that? How did that come up

1446
01:11:23,320 --> 01:11:25,920
Speaker 1: onto the planet? You know, Yann did a whole t

1447
01:11:26,160 --> 01:11:28,599
Speaker 1: whole damn T shirt run. I think he gave all

1448
01:11:28,600 --> 01:11:37,080
Speaker 1: the money. Sid. I can't compete with that, Yann. It's

1449
01:11:37,120 --> 01:11:40,880
Speaker 1: been good for how good for you? We've been well?

1450
01:11:40,920 --> 01:11:42,960
Speaker 1: I just think the exposure, you know, it gives us.

1451
01:11:42,960 --> 01:11:48,280
Speaker 1: It's it's marketing. But so alright, So explain that you

1452
01:11:48,320 --> 01:11:50,960
Speaker 1: had a tir you had a T shirt. There's b

1453
01:11:51,160 --> 01:11:54,360
Speaker 1: h A written on it. Yeah, we we we specifically

1454
01:11:54,439 --> 01:11:57,439
Speaker 1: made a T shirt for this person for this take

1455
01:11:57,479 --> 01:12:02,000
Speaker 1: the money out to make the T shirt? So at yasah. Yeah. Yeah,

1456
01:12:02,240 --> 01:12:05,000
Speaker 1: So like I said, profits al right, So once we

1457
01:12:05,240 --> 01:12:08,479
Speaker 1: paid for the shirts, paid for the design you like

1458
01:12:08,640 --> 01:12:13,200
Speaker 1: losing money, because that's that's the bad business. Any won't

1459
01:12:13,200 --> 01:12:16,320
Speaker 1: even be around to do any good for him. Yeah. No,

1460
01:12:16,520 --> 01:12:19,080
Speaker 1: it's great. Man. When you get an email or you know,

1461
01:12:19,120 --> 01:12:21,519
Speaker 1: a personal phone call from Land and he's like, dude,

1462
01:12:21,680 --> 01:12:24,320
Speaker 1: you guys really put your you know, your money where

1463
01:12:24,320 --> 01:12:26,280
Speaker 1: your mouth was and like we just got another check

1464
01:12:26,320 --> 01:12:28,160
Speaker 1: from you. Guys were so stoked, like you send the

1465
01:12:28,200 --> 01:12:31,640
Speaker 1: check in. Yeah, yeah, it feels really good. I might

1466
01:12:31,680 --> 01:12:33,439
Speaker 1: have told it. I might have told stop. I told

1467
01:12:33,439 --> 01:12:38,719
Speaker 1: this story on the podcast. I one time went to God,

1468
01:12:39,160 --> 01:12:41,360
Speaker 1: have I told the story. I was down and remember

1469
01:12:41,360 --> 01:12:46,880
Speaker 1: something North Carolina, Like what's the trendy town in North Carolina? Charlotte,

1470
01:12:49,360 --> 01:12:53,400
Speaker 1: North Carolina. And this guy down there I was doing this.

1471
01:12:53,840 --> 01:12:58,679
Speaker 1: He does this wild game dinner okay, where he charges

1472
01:12:58,880 --> 01:13:02,240
Speaker 1: you know, seventy five I go sevy five bucks a seat.

1473
01:13:03,040 --> 01:13:05,640
Speaker 1: He's wild They didn't dinner. And I pointed out to him, like,

1474
01:13:05,640 --> 01:13:10,040
Speaker 1: you know, some of the seminal wildlife conservation legislation in

1475
01:13:10,040 --> 01:13:12,760
Speaker 1: this country had to do with banning the sale of

1476
01:13:12,840 --> 01:13:15,440
Speaker 1: wild game meat. And that's kind of how we recovered

1477
01:13:15,880 --> 01:13:19,000
Speaker 1: our wildlife species because we got rid of market hunting

1478
01:13:19,360 --> 01:13:21,160
Speaker 1: and what you're engaged in here is you're engaged in

1479
01:13:21,200 --> 01:13:24,400
Speaker 1: market hunting um and you're breaking a whole lot of

1480
01:13:24,479 --> 01:13:28,120
Speaker 1: laws by having by charging for a wild game dinner.

1481
01:13:29,600 --> 01:13:31,559
Speaker 1: We talked some more about him, like he goes, oh so,

1482
01:13:31,640 --> 01:13:34,240
Speaker 1: and so I'm like, yeah, places do fundraisers. You can

1483
01:13:34,240 --> 01:13:36,840
Speaker 1: do fundraisers with proper accounting. You know, where you have

1484
01:13:36,920 --> 01:13:39,320
Speaker 1: wild game dinner and you raise money and the money

1485
01:13:39,520 --> 01:13:41,960
Speaker 1: goes is not a for profit venture. And he then

1486
01:13:41,960 --> 01:13:44,280
Speaker 1: says okay. And so then I I go to one

1487
01:13:44,280 --> 01:13:46,000
Speaker 1: of these dinners, this private book tour thing I'm on

1488
01:13:46,080 --> 01:13:49,200
Speaker 1: and he's and he says, how and I get to

1489
01:13:49,200 --> 01:13:54,760
Speaker 1: pick the recipient of the money, and I picked. I

1490
01:13:54,840 --> 01:14:00,600
Speaker 1: picked the theater Roosevelt Conservation Partnership. After that dinner, I

1491
01:14:00,640 --> 01:14:01,920
Speaker 1: got hold of him and say, hey, you let me

1492
01:14:01,960 --> 01:14:04,760
Speaker 1: know if you ever get a check from the organization

1493
01:14:04,880 --> 01:14:08,280
Speaker 1: or the person or anything. Never got it, Never got it.

1494
01:14:08,800 --> 01:14:13,320
Speaker 1: And he's talking about it at the event. Tricky son

1495
01:14:13,360 --> 01:14:17,080
Speaker 1: of a bit. Yeah, if you know, I didn't like,

1496
01:14:17,080 --> 01:14:19,280
Speaker 1: I never like went after him bought it. But you know,

1497
01:14:19,280 --> 01:14:22,240
Speaker 1: I don't want to talk about anything. But but you

1498
01:14:22,280 --> 01:14:24,360
Speaker 1: know I didn't do like all the work I should

1499
01:14:24,400 --> 01:14:26,880
Speaker 1: have done to like document whatever. But I remember thinking

1500
01:14:26,880 --> 01:14:33,479
Speaker 1: it was a little bit. Yeah. Uh so you write

1501
01:14:33,520 --> 01:14:37,000
Speaker 1: them in, you just like write the check, you keep

1502
01:14:37,000 --> 01:14:40,960
Speaker 1: track of it or whatever. But they sell it too. Now, yeah,

1503
01:14:41,560 --> 01:14:43,320
Speaker 1: we had to. We're gonna print some more up and

1504
01:14:43,360 --> 01:14:46,120
Speaker 1: get them some shirts to sell. You guys sell Belltown

1505
01:14:46,160 --> 01:14:49,679
Speaker 1: Pizza T shirts. Lots of them comes summer. The tourists

1506
01:14:49,720 --> 01:14:51,880
Speaker 1: like to take them home, for sure. They walk all

1507
01:14:51,920 --> 01:14:53,960
Speaker 1: the T shirt pizza. Get a cool T shirt? Is

1508
01:14:53,960 --> 01:14:55,880
Speaker 1: that why you're asking me who does our T shirts? Yeah?

1509
01:14:55,880 --> 01:14:59,879
Speaker 1: I got a great guy did our T shirts. Situations

1510
01:15:00,120 --> 01:15:02,200
Speaker 1: mass Man. Everybody's like calling me up, trying to hit

1511
01:15:02,280 --> 01:15:04,599
Speaker 1: you up for T shirts because I know I know you. Yeah,

1512
01:15:04,760 --> 01:15:07,840
Speaker 1: just earlier Jimmy Doran hit me up for a Netgator

1513
01:15:07,960 --> 01:15:10,000
Speaker 1: for a friend, a kid of a friend. Yeah, my

1514
01:15:10,000 --> 01:15:13,599
Speaker 1: buddy Coady's kid, Ridge is gonna have anybody name Rich.

1515
01:15:13,720 --> 01:15:15,439
Speaker 1: We got a guy we worked with it we named

1516
01:15:15,439 --> 01:15:17,559
Speaker 1: the Bridge. He's a little his name is Chris. We

1517
01:15:17,600 --> 01:15:21,240
Speaker 1: name him Ridge Pounder. It's a cool name. Yea. His

1518
01:15:21,400 --> 01:15:25,439
Speaker 1: wife was miss Pounder, Rich Pounder. Whatever happen. That's some

1519
01:15:25,560 --> 01:15:27,719
Speaker 1: bit she needs to come back out with us. Yeah,

1520
01:15:28,040 --> 01:15:33,160
Speaker 1: he's talking to it all. Yeah, I'm keeping keeping the leash.

1521
01:15:33,479 --> 01:15:35,639
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to shorten the leash, you know. But yeah,

1522
01:15:35,680 --> 01:15:37,360
Speaker 1: he had to go and just you know, test the

1523
01:15:37,360 --> 01:15:39,680
Speaker 1: water's other places. Realized that he was already working for

1524
01:15:39,720 --> 01:15:45,479
Speaker 1: the great, the good fault. Yeah, Jimmy got the closing thoughts. Wow,

1525
01:15:45,760 --> 01:15:48,400
Speaker 1: not really, just enjoyed learning a little bit more about

1526
01:15:48,400 --> 01:15:50,599
Speaker 1: long bows and ree curves and I still have yea.

1527
01:15:50,880 --> 01:15:54,240
Speaker 1: You you shoot some arrows out of a have a compound,

1528
01:15:54,360 --> 01:15:56,479
Speaker 1: nice matthews and I like a lot. But you shot

1529
01:15:56,479 --> 01:15:58,320
Speaker 1: a freak buck with it. I think last week I did.

1530
01:15:58,320 --> 01:16:01,599
Speaker 1: I shot a really old, really smell, crazy looking, crazy

1531
01:16:01,640 --> 01:16:05,519
Speaker 1: looking deer um. Yes, five and four. It was really

1532
01:16:05,760 --> 01:16:09,000
Speaker 1: super old. You looked like you've been through hell. He's

1533
01:16:09,000 --> 01:16:12,080
Speaker 1: not in good shape. I did him a favorite. I

1534
01:16:12,080 --> 01:16:16,080
Speaker 1: think he was in the autumn of his life. Very end. Yeah,

1535
01:16:16,120 --> 01:16:19,120
Speaker 1: there's no uh no fat, No blood came in. I

1536
01:16:19,200 --> 01:16:22,240
Speaker 1: was just bizarre, but in about a thousand ticks on

1537
01:16:22,320 --> 01:16:27,160
Speaker 1: him and a distinct smell. So it was you probably

1538
01:16:27,240 --> 01:16:32,120
Speaker 1: served all that media. Yes, specialist, it's a little funny.

1539
01:16:32,640 --> 01:16:35,040
Speaker 1: We'll give you a discount of one. Yes, super Bowl,

1540
01:16:35,120 --> 01:16:38,160
Speaker 1: you ran a Super Bowl special area and so if

1541
01:16:38,200 --> 01:16:40,120
Speaker 1: you if you could sell it, that's what they paid

1542
01:16:40,120 --> 01:16:44,000
Speaker 1: a big box for. Across the Atlantic in Germany were

1543
01:16:44,120 --> 01:16:47,200
Speaker 1: I was told by a guy who's who you like?

1544
01:16:47,240 --> 01:16:50,000
Speaker 1: In Scotland stuff they do, you know, they got like

1545
01:16:50,680 --> 01:16:53,240
Speaker 1: different sister and there with landowner own it's not like America.

1546
01:16:53,280 --> 01:16:55,559
Speaker 1: Like America the people on the animals. There the landowner

1547
01:16:55,600 --> 01:16:59,559
Speaker 1: owns the animals and they sell. And the German market

1548
01:17:00,439 --> 01:17:06,519
Speaker 1: rutting stags, they want running stags. They like them. The

1549
01:17:06,560 --> 01:17:10,599
Speaker 1: word they use high. Okay, I think didn't we hear

1550
01:17:10,640 --> 01:17:14,120
Speaker 1: the same thing about the big boars in Texas and

1551
01:17:14,240 --> 01:17:19,200
Speaker 1: somehow they that's rights meat out for the big boars.

1552
01:17:19,760 --> 01:17:21,320
Speaker 1: I don't want that big boar. I'll take that little

1553
01:17:21,360 --> 01:17:23,799
Speaker 1: fat south. What are you saying for the European markets.

1554
01:17:23,840 --> 01:17:26,360
Speaker 1: Some European markets they like a good they like when

1555
01:17:26,360 --> 01:17:27,920
Speaker 1: they're eating game meat. They want to know I want

1556
01:17:27,920 --> 01:17:30,680
Speaker 1: to know it and they don't want to around. Oh

1557
01:17:30,760 --> 01:17:33,840
Speaker 1: it's so tender and mild and like that. Yeah. I've

1558
01:17:33,840 --> 01:17:35,680
Speaker 1: been trying to keep that in mind lately as I

1559
01:17:35,760 --> 01:17:38,200
Speaker 1: go through my meats, and you know, just like taste

1560
01:17:38,200 --> 01:17:42,160
Speaker 1: and whatever and just not have the like it's like

1561
01:17:42,320 --> 01:17:45,439
Speaker 1: eating these chicken breasts for always like, oh, the blander

1562
01:17:45,479 --> 01:17:47,960
Speaker 1: it is, the better it is, as opposed to being

1563
01:17:48,000 --> 01:17:52,320
Speaker 1: like oh me and culture in general. Yeah, like the

1564
01:17:52,320 --> 01:17:55,400
Speaker 1: measure of good meat is tender and mild. Yeah, exactly,

1565
01:17:55,760 --> 01:17:58,519
Speaker 1: it's tender and mild must be good. Yeah. And instead

1566
01:17:58,560 --> 01:18:00,920
Speaker 1: now I'm like, you know, maybe I want to shoot

1567
01:18:00,920 --> 01:18:02,800
Speaker 1: that runted up buck. You know, dude, we did a

1568
01:18:02,840 --> 01:18:07,599
Speaker 1: pepsi challenge. We were eating raw meat out of one

1569
01:18:07,600 --> 01:18:11,599
Speaker 1: and a half year old buck and raw meat out

1570
01:18:11,640 --> 01:18:16,000
Speaker 1: of um, like four or five year old you know,

1571
01:18:16,120 --> 01:18:19,479
Speaker 1: full on buck. Now, the one had been hanging in

1572
01:18:19,479 --> 01:18:21,599
Speaker 1: a tree in cold weather for several days, so that

1573
01:18:21,600 --> 01:18:25,400
Speaker 1: that gives it. The big buck had been hanging. It's

1574
01:18:25,439 --> 01:18:29,519
Speaker 1: just like you would have known, not even and everybody

1575
01:18:29,520 --> 01:18:31,479
Speaker 1: talks about oh yeah that old buck. Well I'll shoot

1576
01:18:31,479 --> 01:18:33,920
Speaker 1: a eat her buck, and you know all that. It's like, dude,

1577
01:18:33,920 --> 01:18:35,760
Speaker 1: that buck. There was no difference between those two bucks.

1578
01:18:37,840 --> 01:18:43,640
Speaker 1: Raw meat, the same cut. The bigger buck actually, um,

1579
01:18:44,000 --> 01:18:46,640
Speaker 1: it was better texture. Yeah, to the tooth it was

1580
01:18:46,720 --> 01:18:48,800
Speaker 1: better than the young buck. But I was the young

1581
01:18:48,840 --> 01:18:52,000
Speaker 1: buck was literally killed eight hours. But that fresh meat

1582
01:18:52,040 --> 01:18:54,120
Speaker 1: has a real iron taste to it. It's got like

1583
01:18:54,640 --> 01:18:58,479
Speaker 1: hasn't gone through its rigor process. Yeah, what's that process

1584
01:18:58,560 --> 01:19:03,800
Speaker 1: called helen choe you know ye e K G May

1585
01:19:04,400 --> 01:19:06,800
Speaker 1: where they catch a fish. You ever see this, Like

1586
01:19:06,840 --> 01:19:09,479
Speaker 1: I was out fishing with Helen and they catch fish

1587
01:19:09,520 --> 01:19:11,360
Speaker 1: and they cut the tail and bend the tail back,

1588
01:19:11,400 --> 01:19:14,679
Speaker 1: and then they run a steel rod like a piece

1589
01:19:14,720 --> 01:19:19,440
Speaker 1: of wire through the spinal column to relax that fish.

1590
01:19:19,479 --> 01:19:21,280
Speaker 1: But I saw guys in South America they called a

1591
01:19:21,280 --> 01:19:26,000
Speaker 1: big river turtle and they um ran a willow, not

1592
01:19:26,080 --> 01:19:30,200
Speaker 1: willow probably, but a long, bendy green stick all through

1593
01:19:30,360 --> 01:19:32,960
Speaker 1: down its spinal column and that just melted that turtle.

1594
01:19:33,960 --> 01:19:36,200
Speaker 1: Just relax. If you cut that off, turtle, you gotta

1595
01:19:36,240 --> 01:19:38,200
Speaker 1: wait six seven hours before you can cut it up.

1596
01:19:38,479 --> 01:19:41,760
Speaker 1: This turtle was just like yeah. But the same way

1597
01:19:41,760 --> 01:19:43,719
Speaker 1: when they shot Cattley. You know, I've watched the process

1598
01:19:43,760 --> 01:19:46,800
Speaker 1: cattle and like big slaughterhouses. You know, they hit with

1599
01:19:46,840 --> 01:19:50,360
Speaker 1: that captive bolt gun, hang them up. I think they

1600
01:19:50,479 --> 01:19:52,479
Speaker 1: hit with the cats with bolt gun, flip them around

1601
01:19:52,479 --> 01:19:56,320
Speaker 1: and hang them up upside down, bleed them, then electrocute them.

1602
01:19:56,360 --> 01:19:59,879
Speaker 1: And once you useapp them, they're just there's no flinching

1603
01:20:00,040 --> 01:20:03,320
Speaker 1: and kicking, just yell, yeah, they're just I think it

1604
01:20:03,360 --> 01:20:05,800
Speaker 1: does something to the whole the whole rigor process with

1605
01:20:05,800 --> 01:20:07,920
Speaker 1: the nervous system. But they got that same thing by

1606
01:20:07,960 --> 01:20:10,720
Speaker 1: running that rod through that turtle. Dude, I think it

1607
01:20:10,760 --> 01:20:12,960
Speaker 1: was not. You just eat it right then, and there

1608
01:20:13,280 --> 01:20:16,160
Speaker 1: probably severs all those nerve connections from the spine going

1609
01:20:16,160 --> 01:20:17,840
Speaker 1: out to the muscles and you know what, they're like this.

1610
01:20:17,880 --> 01:20:19,639
Speaker 1: You pull the arm out, the arm comes right back.

1611
01:20:20,080 --> 01:20:21,960
Speaker 1: You do that to it. He's just the brain is

1612
01:20:22,000 --> 01:20:24,000
Speaker 1: probably in. They're firing away, going, you know, pull a

1613
01:20:24,000 --> 01:20:27,000
Speaker 1: pool pool pool, but nothing's happening because it's all cut off.

1614
01:20:28,120 --> 01:20:30,479
Speaker 1: Speaking to Zap and me, did you ever get to

1615
01:20:30,560 --> 01:20:34,639
Speaker 1: try that tender buck gadget something? No? I still got

1616
01:20:34,640 --> 01:20:35,640
Speaker 1: it too. I want to try it, but it's like

1617
01:20:35,680 --> 01:20:38,280
Speaker 1: our hunting isn't really conducive to it. You have to

1618
01:20:38,280 --> 01:20:41,680
Speaker 1: take it out the dugs. Yeah, the place where we

1619
01:20:41,680 --> 01:20:43,760
Speaker 1: can get the whole cat like, Yeah, I can get

1620
01:20:43,760 --> 01:20:45,600
Speaker 1: a little my backpack up and put a battery in

1621
01:20:45,640 --> 01:20:49,120
Speaker 1: the squitching You got to carry a battery on. That's

1622
01:20:49,160 --> 01:20:51,200
Speaker 1: bad enough. Just get it from the car to the pier. Man.

1623
01:20:51,240 --> 01:20:53,479
Speaker 1: I can't imagine hiking back in four miles of a

1624
01:20:53,520 --> 01:21:00,960
Speaker 1: twelve vault. Um yeah, um, I think you did a

1625
01:21:01,000 --> 01:21:03,880
Speaker 1: really good job roun on Um. I owned a traditional

1626
01:21:04,000 --> 01:21:07,800
Speaker 1: for probably I don't know, at least six years, maybe

1627
01:21:07,800 --> 01:21:11,639
Speaker 1: a few longer. About the turkey got on accident I shot.

1628
01:21:11,960 --> 01:21:15,200
Speaker 1: I'm proud to say I've gotten three shots at elk

1629
01:21:15,360 --> 01:21:17,720
Speaker 1: with my recurve, all well within my range. You know.

1630
01:21:17,760 --> 01:21:20,439
Speaker 1: It's like that twenty yards or less range. All three

1631
01:21:20,560 --> 01:21:25,080
Speaker 1: arrows went clean over their backs. At the time, I

1632
01:21:25,120 --> 01:21:27,360
Speaker 1: was like, I was spending for for me at the time,

1633
01:21:27,479 --> 01:21:30,519
Speaker 1: big box to drive up to Montana because our our

1634
01:21:31,160 --> 01:21:34,280
Speaker 1: Monta or Colorado was archery seasonal closed. I would drive

1635
01:21:34,360 --> 01:21:37,920
Speaker 1: up to Montana, spends on a week long hunting trip

1636
01:21:38,920 --> 01:21:40,800
Speaker 1: and then fling one over the back, and I was like,

1637
01:21:40,960 --> 01:21:43,960
Speaker 1: I'm getting a confound. You know. Next year killed the

1638
01:21:44,000 --> 01:21:47,400
Speaker 1: cow um, but still proud of the fact that got

1639
01:21:47,400 --> 01:21:49,519
Speaker 1: in close. And numerous other times, you know, I let

1640
01:21:49,560 --> 01:21:52,120
Speaker 1: Elk walk it, you know, twenty five or whatever, and

1641
01:21:52,160 --> 01:21:54,760
Speaker 1: I think I'm gonna come back to shooting traditional at

1642
01:21:54,840 --> 01:21:57,759
Speaker 1: some point. But the turkey that I did kill um

1643
01:21:57,800 --> 01:22:00,680
Speaker 1: Before I shot at turkey with my shot gun. We

1644
01:22:00,720 --> 01:22:04,840
Speaker 1: would chase turkeys around with a reekers, which is super fun.

1645
01:22:04,840 --> 01:22:06,800
Speaker 1: We would do it just like Elk like have a

1646
01:22:06,840 --> 01:22:08,880
Speaker 1: caller behind us, you know, that would be calling the

1647
01:22:08,920 --> 01:22:11,920
Speaker 1: turkey and he'd come in strutton. And if that turkey

1648
01:22:11,920 --> 01:22:14,920
Speaker 1: strutting and he turns away from you, you've got all

1649
01:22:14,960 --> 01:22:16,680
Speaker 1: the time and you know, freedom in the world to

1650
01:22:16,840 --> 01:22:20,280
Speaker 1: draw your bow back and get a nice shot. They

1651
01:22:20,280 --> 01:22:23,920
Speaker 1: can't see nothing. But this is actually in the fall,

1652
01:22:24,360 --> 01:22:27,080
Speaker 1: and uh, when we're hunting Nebraska, I mean it's like

1653
01:22:27,360 --> 01:22:30,720
Speaker 1: it's near unlimited like turkey killing, Like I forget, you

1654
01:22:30,720 --> 01:22:33,679
Speaker 1: can kill quite a few in the fall. But we're

1655
01:22:33,720 --> 01:22:36,800
Speaker 1: basically just ambush on the roost, you know, so we

1656
01:22:36,800 --> 01:22:38,840
Speaker 1: would just like hang out where we knew they were

1657
01:22:38,840 --> 01:22:41,559
Speaker 1: gonna be coming back towards the roost and the evens,

1658
01:22:41,600 --> 01:22:44,519
Speaker 1: you know, so you're just in there, nothing's going on.

1659
01:22:44,720 --> 01:22:47,439
Speaker 1: And then five minutes later, it's like fifty turkeys around,

1660
01:22:47,439 --> 01:22:49,200
Speaker 1: you know. And a lot of times the young ones

1661
01:22:49,320 --> 01:22:53,479
Speaker 1: them are they still poults at that point And even

1662
01:22:53,520 --> 01:22:58,120
Speaker 1: if it's the fall, yeah, you can tell. I mean

1663
01:22:58,120 --> 01:23:01,240
Speaker 1: there's only like five pound birds, you know, but they're

1664
01:23:01,280 --> 01:23:04,240
Speaker 1: fighting and screwing around or whatever. And I had these

1665
01:23:04,280 --> 01:23:05,920
Speaker 1: I think they were two jakes, and they were locked

1666
01:23:06,000 --> 01:23:07,680
Speaker 1: up like they do with their necks. You know, like

1667
01:23:07,720 --> 01:23:12,160
Speaker 1: literally twirled around each other. And I'm thinking, oh, just easy,

1668
01:23:12,200 --> 01:23:14,719
Speaker 1: no big deal, you know, and I just draw back,

1669
01:23:14,840 --> 01:23:17,240
Speaker 1: try to pick my spot, let go and again, just

1670
01:23:17,400 --> 01:23:20,200
Speaker 1: right over the back of the one. I'm going, oh

1671
01:23:20,320 --> 01:23:22,160
Speaker 1: and right, I kind of say oh. At the same time,

1672
01:23:22,200 --> 01:23:25,759
Speaker 1: I hear this kind of like weird, like this turkey

1673
01:23:25,880 --> 01:23:32,280
Speaker 1: noise that's basically like oh, you know, and there's so

1674
01:23:32,320 --> 01:23:34,960
Speaker 1: many turkeys around that. Then I'm like, I'm better go

1675
01:23:35,040 --> 01:23:37,240
Speaker 1: check that out, you know, as I jump up and run,

1676
01:23:37,280 --> 01:23:40,320
Speaker 1: and my arrow had just like gone over this little

1677
01:23:40,400 --> 01:23:42,639
Speaker 1: rise just enough, and there was a hand back there,

1678
01:23:43,560 --> 01:23:45,719
Speaker 1: and she's running off of one of my arrows. Stuff

1679
01:23:47,479 --> 01:23:49,760
Speaker 1: been like, yeah, let's pull back on those jakes. And

1680
01:23:49,800 --> 01:23:51,560
Speaker 1: I saw that hand and thought it looks like a

1681
01:23:51,600 --> 01:23:53,519
Speaker 1: good eater. You know, you had to act like you

1682
01:23:53,560 --> 01:23:55,880
Speaker 1: meant it. Man. My buddy still makes fun of me

1683
01:23:56,040 --> 01:23:58,360
Speaker 1: who I was with, who had killed you know, piles

1684
01:23:58,360 --> 01:24:00,920
Speaker 1: of turkeys, you know, prior to that. But that was

1685
01:24:00,960 --> 01:24:03,559
Speaker 1: my first ever turkey you know, of any kind of

1686
01:24:03,600 --> 01:24:06,360
Speaker 1: you know, turkey kill. I come running back with that

1687
01:24:06,439 --> 01:24:08,840
Speaker 1: hand and now now everybody's like, oh, you carry him

1688
01:24:08,840 --> 01:24:10,800
Speaker 1: by the legs, right, Well, I got that hand by

1689
01:24:10,840 --> 01:24:13,720
Speaker 1: the neck. I'm just like, yeah, look here, here's my

1690
01:24:13,760 --> 01:24:17,720
Speaker 1: hand turkey. But anyways, back to the book, I think

1691
01:24:17,720 --> 01:24:20,479
Speaker 1: you did a really good job of like taking the

1692
01:24:20,520 --> 01:24:24,640
Speaker 1: pressure off of what traditional bow hunting isn't there, and

1693
01:24:24,640 --> 01:24:27,519
Speaker 1: you really explain that well to where like you're we're

1694
01:24:27,520 --> 01:24:29,400
Speaker 1: talking a little bit of touched on it earlier, where

1695
01:24:29,479 --> 01:24:32,960
Speaker 1: people get into and it's like, well, what makes it traditional?

1696
01:24:33,080 --> 01:24:36,160
Speaker 1: Do I have to be walking around in pure buckskins

1697
01:24:36,280 --> 01:24:40,200
Speaker 1: and moccasins or of course, yeah, you're right, and a

1698
01:24:41,040 --> 01:24:44,120
Speaker 1: coon skin hat, right, But You're like, no, it's like

1699
01:24:44,200 --> 01:24:46,360
Speaker 1: whatever you wanted to be, you can have it be

1700
01:24:46,439 --> 01:24:48,479
Speaker 1: that way and then pick what you like about it.

1701
01:24:48,520 --> 01:24:51,280
Speaker 1: And I gotta say, like, yeah, shooting those recurved bows,

1702
01:24:51,680 --> 01:24:54,719
Speaker 1: it's such a different thing locking off with a compound,

1703
01:24:54,800 --> 01:24:58,280
Speaker 1: you know, there's just such a beautiful, smooth, something flowy

1704
01:24:58,320 --> 01:25:02,120
Speaker 1: about it. You know, shoot him is great. But all

1705
01:25:02,240 --> 01:25:03,960
Speaker 1: that I have kind of like a follow up question,

1706
01:25:04,320 --> 01:25:06,680
Speaker 1: and as I was always wondered, it's a problem that

1707
01:25:06,720 --> 01:25:09,720
Speaker 1: I have with being um, left eye dominant, but the

1708
01:25:09,800 --> 01:25:12,880
Speaker 1: right hand and shooter and shooting traditional and everybody's always

1709
01:25:12,880 --> 01:25:15,000
Speaker 1: like you gotta shoot left, gotta shoot left. So now

1710
01:25:15,040 --> 01:25:17,280
Speaker 1: I have a left handed longbow. I've been messing around

1711
01:25:17,280 --> 01:25:19,920
Speaker 1: with a little bit. My shooting is not that great.

1712
01:25:21,720 --> 01:25:24,760
Speaker 1: It might get better, But my question is, like, how

1713
01:25:24,760 --> 01:25:27,439
Speaker 1: come people just don't take the simple bows that like

1714
01:25:27,479 --> 01:25:29,519
Speaker 1: you have on your cover here with a recurver longbo

1715
01:25:29,640 --> 01:25:33,800
Speaker 1: and just put like one pin they there. Yeah, that

1716
01:25:34,600 --> 01:25:38,400
Speaker 1: is that like totally okay cool? If there's just this

1717
01:25:38,520 --> 01:25:42,840
Speaker 1: weird thing that's happened probably in the last maybe twenty years.

1718
01:25:43,160 --> 01:25:44,800
Speaker 1: I mean, if you go back to the fifties and

1719
01:25:44,840 --> 01:25:48,080
Speaker 1: sixties and well, I like to collect vintage bows, so

1720
01:25:48,120 --> 01:25:50,520
Speaker 1: I have lots of old Beare bows and Ben Pearson's.

1721
01:25:50,560 --> 01:25:52,559
Speaker 1: They all have holes on the back of the riser

1722
01:25:52,560 --> 01:25:54,800
Speaker 1: where there used to be a site. I mean those

1723
01:25:54,840 --> 01:25:57,679
Speaker 1: old guys all shot sights when they're recurve bois, shot

1724
01:25:57,680 --> 01:26:00,640
Speaker 1: burger buttons and flipper rest on them. Yeah, exact. But

1725
01:26:00,920 --> 01:26:04,400
Speaker 1: there's this mindset now among the traditional archery crowd that

1726
01:26:05,000 --> 01:26:07,720
Speaker 1: you're not traditional, or you don't shoot instinctive, or you're

1727
01:26:07,760 --> 01:26:10,080
Speaker 1: somehow cheating. If you put a site pin on a

1728
01:26:10,120 --> 01:26:12,920
Speaker 1: recurve and I say foodie to that, that's a bunch

1729
01:26:12,920 --> 01:26:14,840
Speaker 1: of crap. I mean, if you want to use a

1730
01:26:14,880 --> 01:26:17,559
Speaker 1: site pin on a recurve. Do it, man, It's still

1731
01:26:17,600 --> 01:26:20,160
Speaker 1: it's it's there's still so much fun to be had

1732
01:26:20,200 --> 01:26:22,600
Speaker 1: with a recurve. And if that sight pin gives you

1733
01:26:22,680 --> 01:26:25,240
Speaker 1: some confidence, or if your cross eye dominant feel like

1734
01:26:25,280 --> 01:26:27,479
Speaker 1: it would like just having that one pin, I would

1735
01:26:27,520 --> 01:26:30,439
Speaker 1: just be like there is oh, it's but it's all

1736
01:26:30,560 --> 01:26:33,040
Speaker 1: or it's already. Like when when people start to act

1737
01:26:33,080 --> 01:26:35,320
Speaker 1: like there's like these rigid definitions of that stuff, it's like,

1738
01:26:35,360 --> 01:26:39,280
Speaker 1: what do they think there's a gatekeepers exactly, Like yeah,

1739
01:26:41,320 --> 01:26:43,360
Speaker 1: like all this equipment, but yet you flipped through three

1740
01:26:43,400 --> 01:26:45,920
Speaker 1: of hers Archery and it's not like side pin for

1741
01:26:45,960 --> 01:26:48,400
Speaker 1: a recurve. It's like it's like literally not in there.

1742
01:26:48,560 --> 01:26:50,519
Speaker 1: I think. I don't remember the name of it. But

1743
01:26:50,600 --> 01:26:53,840
Speaker 1: three Rivers does sell this really cool site. It's like

1744
01:26:53,880 --> 01:26:57,799
Speaker 1: a trapezoid shaped thing that's a little little frame. It's hollow,

1745
01:26:58,320 --> 01:27:01,600
Speaker 1: it's black like hello in a real lightweight to luminum,

1746
01:27:01,640 --> 01:27:04,519
Speaker 1: and one edge of it is painted fluorescent yellow. And

1747
01:27:04,680 --> 01:27:07,240
Speaker 1: so it's not a pin, but it's like an aperture

1748
01:27:07,280 --> 01:27:09,240
Speaker 1: you look through. So you've got that thing attached to

1749
01:27:09,280 --> 01:27:12,240
Speaker 1: your riser and you're looking kind of through this aperture

1750
01:27:12,280 --> 01:27:14,320
Speaker 1: that's not you know, it's not a pin prick like

1751
01:27:14,320 --> 01:27:16,479
Speaker 1: you're trying to put an arrow there, but it gives

1752
01:27:16,479 --> 01:27:20,040
Speaker 1: you a frame of reference and it's fast too. It's

1753
01:27:20,040 --> 01:27:21,640
Speaker 1: not like a pin where you gotta dial it in

1754
01:27:21,680 --> 01:27:23,280
Speaker 1: and it's just just come up and he bucks it

1755
01:27:23,320 --> 01:27:27,320
Speaker 1: in like on a rear receiver. Right, let's they call

1756
01:27:27,400 --> 01:27:31,479
Speaker 1: that on a peep yeah peep, yeah, you know, trying

1757
01:27:31,479 --> 01:27:34,759
Speaker 1: one of those. Yeah. Well, my brother who my brother Danny,

1758
01:27:34,760 --> 01:27:37,120
Speaker 1: who hunts, shoots a lot with the recurve, does some

1759
01:27:37,200 --> 01:27:41,360
Speaker 1: honey with his recurve. Um he you know, shoots carbon arrows,

1760
01:27:41,960 --> 01:27:45,080
Speaker 1: and he had to really look to find a carbon

1761
01:27:45,280 --> 01:27:48,639
Speaker 1: arrow that didn't have the fake wood on it because

1762
01:27:48,640 --> 01:27:53,080
Speaker 1: he felt like, He's like, I'm shooting carbon. I don't

1763
01:27:53,080 --> 01:27:55,120
Speaker 1: want to then try to act like I'm not and

1764
01:27:55,280 --> 01:27:58,280
Speaker 1: bullshit people, and he goes most of these carbon arrows

1765
01:27:58,320 --> 01:28:02,200
Speaker 1: sold have a would finish. We're supposed to be like,

1766
01:28:02,479 --> 01:28:06,040
Speaker 1: you're embarrassed about shooting carbon, but he's like, I'm not.

1767
01:28:06,160 --> 01:28:08,439
Speaker 1: I was like, like, I'm not gonna go out of

1768
01:28:08,479 --> 01:28:12,280
Speaker 1: my way and pay extra money to bullshit people. I

1769
01:28:12,320 --> 01:28:16,360
Speaker 1: shoot those bullshit arrows. He said, you almost have to. Well,

1770
01:28:16,400 --> 01:28:19,000
Speaker 1: the reason I do is because they're heavier because they're

1771
01:28:19,040 --> 01:28:21,839
Speaker 1: marketed to traditional bull hunters and they're a little heavier

1772
01:28:21,880 --> 01:28:26,080
Speaker 1: than standard carbon arrows for it. But he found and

1773
01:28:26,120 --> 01:28:30,040
Speaker 1: I have some right, I got something around here somewhere

1774
01:28:30,320 --> 01:28:33,599
Speaker 1: high high planes or something. Yeah, but he said, he said,

1775
01:28:33,600 --> 01:28:35,960
Speaker 1: you're almost forced in doing it because all the arrows

1776
01:28:36,320 --> 01:28:42,320
Speaker 1: of the of the right, you know, all done. But yeah,

1777
01:28:42,439 --> 01:28:45,120
Speaker 1: there's three rivers. Three rivers carry some guy that you

1778
01:28:45,240 --> 01:28:47,680
Speaker 1: just buy black. And he felt so much better about it,

1779
01:28:47,760 --> 01:28:51,120
Speaker 1: where he's like, it's like, guys, remember um, you know,

1780
01:28:51,120 --> 01:28:54,280
Speaker 1: like sneaky pete pool cues, right, great pool cues that

1781
01:28:54,280 --> 01:28:56,400
Speaker 1: are made to look shitty, so it looked like you

1782
01:28:56,439 --> 01:28:58,519
Speaker 1: were shooting a bar stick when you were actually shooting,

1783
01:28:58,560 --> 01:29:01,280
Speaker 1: like you're actually shooting a good QB. Did want everybody

1784
01:29:01,280 --> 01:29:03,599
Speaker 1: knows you got like they like make it look shitty

1785
01:29:03,640 --> 01:29:11,280
Speaker 1: cosmetically different, Yeah, I gets so fat. Yeah, but there

1786
01:29:11,320 --> 01:29:13,600
Speaker 1: are a lot of gate keepers. Yeah, I mean it

1787
01:29:13,640 --> 01:29:16,360
Speaker 1: happens in every discipline, you know, but it's like, oh yeah,

1788
01:29:16,520 --> 01:29:18,920
Speaker 1: you know, he gets a lot of elk. But you

1789
01:29:18,960 --> 01:29:22,160
Speaker 1: know he you know, shoots at bible or yards whatever,

1790
01:29:22,400 --> 01:29:24,360
Speaker 1: and in the traditional archer it's like oh yeah, but

1791
01:29:24,400 --> 01:29:28,160
Speaker 1: he's not he shot, he's snapping him. He's napping his

1792
01:29:28,200 --> 01:29:34,479
Speaker 1: points out of glass and not obsidian. Somebody's always going

1793
01:29:34,520 --> 01:29:38,320
Speaker 1: to give grief, oh man. And in your world there's

1794
01:29:38,320 --> 01:29:40,120
Speaker 1: a lot of it, and in the fly fishing world

1795
01:29:40,200 --> 01:29:41,599
Speaker 1: is a lot. Oh yeah. I mean, I'm sure i'll

1796
01:29:41,600 --> 01:29:46,680
Speaker 1: get emails after this podcast. You know already you're not traditionally.

1797
01:29:47,520 --> 01:29:50,320
Speaker 1: Let's get a coonskin cap. You'll make up for it.

1798
01:29:50,880 --> 01:29:55,080
Speaker 1: You got you got any final thoughts, bron, Yeah, I mean,

1799
01:29:55,200 --> 01:29:57,280
Speaker 1: I guess my one final thought here. You were asking

1800
01:29:57,320 --> 01:30:00,400
Speaker 1: earlier about you know, if I think peop should get

1801
01:30:00,439 --> 01:30:04,120
Speaker 1: into traditional bow hunting or traditional archery. And I don't know.

1802
01:30:04,160 --> 01:30:06,599
Speaker 1: I'm not going to force anybody into it for hunting sake,

1803
01:30:07,080 --> 01:30:09,960
Speaker 1: but I do think if you like to shoot anything,

1804
01:30:10,080 --> 01:30:13,280
Speaker 1: whether it's a handgun, shotgun or rifle, a compound bow,

1805
01:30:13,640 --> 01:30:16,559
Speaker 1: you'll love shooting along bow or recurve. It is just

1806
01:30:16,680 --> 01:30:20,639
Speaker 1: so to me. It's so satisfying to see that arrow fly,

1807
01:30:21,160 --> 01:30:23,120
Speaker 1: and you know, it's a little slower than a compound

1808
01:30:23,120 --> 01:30:24,880
Speaker 1: so you actually get to see the arc of the arrow.

1809
01:30:25,320 --> 01:30:29,120
Speaker 1: You know, the whole quid bone leather thing again. And

1810
01:30:29,200 --> 01:30:31,559
Speaker 1: the other thing I think that's just so freaking cool

1811
01:30:31,600 --> 01:30:33,760
Speaker 1: about it. And the thing that I don't know if

1812
01:30:33,800 --> 01:30:35,400
Speaker 1: I'll be able to explain this, but the thing that

1813
01:30:35,479 --> 01:30:39,519
Speaker 1: keeps me coming back is that it's one of the

1814
01:30:39,560 --> 01:30:43,639
Speaker 1: only hunting forms where it's your own energy from your

1815
01:30:43,640 --> 01:30:47,080
Speaker 1: body that's going into that arrow, that's going into that

1816
01:30:47,160 --> 01:30:50,880
Speaker 1: animal that's putting meat in the freezer. You know, it's

1817
01:30:50,920 --> 01:30:54,040
Speaker 1: like chucking a spear or something, but you know, everything else,

1818
01:30:54,120 --> 01:30:56,400
Speaker 1: something else is going to store that energy for you.

1819
01:30:56,680 --> 01:30:58,920
Speaker 1: But it with traditional bows, I mean, it's you, it's

1820
01:30:58,960 --> 01:31:02,040
Speaker 1: your shoulders, your him, you're back. You know, it's your

1821
01:31:02,120 --> 01:31:04,960
Speaker 1: own energy that's going into that arrow. And I don't

1822
01:31:04,960 --> 01:31:08,439
Speaker 1: know if that's maybe be an esoteric thing, but you know,

1823
01:31:08,479 --> 01:31:11,880
Speaker 1: it's just so cool to me. Yeah, we gotta Yeah,

1824
01:31:11,920 --> 01:31:14,080
Speaker 1: you can get all you can get, poetic, all you want.

1825
01:31:14,200 --> 01:31:19,800
Speaker 1: We're here. Um all right, So once more, your sons

1826
01:31:19,800 --> 01:31:21,880
Speaker 1: of bitches out there that want to start shooting trad bows.

1827
01:31:21,960 --> 01:31:26,920
Speaker 1: A Traditional bow Hunter's Path, Lessons and Adventures of Full

1828
01:31:27,040 --> 01:31:32,280
Speaker 1: draw Ron Roarbau Jr. What's your website? Again? Traditional? What

1829
01:31:32,439 --> 01:31:35,639
Speaker 1: is my website? It's Spirit Traditional, Spirit Outdoors dot com

1830
01:31:35,880 --> 01:31:37,360
Speaker 1: or you go find it out, you don't you don't

1831
01:31:37,360 --> 01:31:38,920
Speaker 1: get mad when people buy it off Amazon or No,

1832
01:31:39,000 --> 01:31:40,599
Speaker 1: I don't get bad. They can get We talked about

1833
01:31:40,600 --> 01:31:42,200
Speaker 1: three rivers. I should plug them. You can get it

1834
01:31:42,200 --> 01:31:47,360
Speaker 1: from three years to nice who broke her that I

1835
01:31:47,400 --> 01:31:50,800
Speaker 1: did that, getting in there and doing it. Yeah, you

1836
01:31:50,840 --> 01:31:54,679
Speaker 1: have to alright man, thanks tuning in, all right, thank

1837
01:31:54,720 --> 01:31:55,000
Speaker 1: you