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Speaker 1: Hi.

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Speaker 2: I'm Laura Vanderkamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist,

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Speaker 2: and speaker.

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Speaker 3: And I'm Sarah Hart Hunger, a mother of three, practicing physician, writer,

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Speaker 3: and course creator. We are two working parents who love

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Speaker 3: our careers and our families.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about

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Speaker 2: how real women manage work, family, and time for fun,

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Speaker 2: from figuring out childcare to mapping out long term career goals.

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Speaker 2: We want you to get the most out of life.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to best of both worlds. This is Laura.

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Speaker 2: This episode is airing in mid to late July of

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty four. We are going to be talking about

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Speaker 2: rest and also what we're calling a trade Off manifesto,

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Speaker 2: a way that people can get enough rest despite having

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Speaker 2: a busy life. So we're going to be rethinking what

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Speaker 2: rest means and also talking strategies for getting rest.

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Speaker 1: Sarah, why did you want to do this topic?

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Speaker 2: So sometimes we have different ones of us suggest different topics,

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Speaker 2: and this was definitely a Sarah suggestion. So maybe you

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Speaker 2: can talk a little bit about why you wanted to

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Speaker 2: do the topic.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I came up with rest actually, and

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Speaker 3: you came up with trade off, which makes sense. You're like,

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Speaker 3: I have a practical solution to your rest dilemma. I

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Speaker 3: just feel like I see this a lot. I mean,

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Speaker 3: we had that period of time when a lot of

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Speaker 3: books were about doing nothing and resting, etc. And they

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Speaker 3: were interesting, So I feel like it continues to be

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Speaker 3: a little bit of a hot topic. I think I've

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Speaker 3: gotten some questions about this, both in my Best Laid

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Speaker 3: Plans universe and also to our Best of Both Worlds.

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Speaker 3: Listeners have asked about this, and I think a lot

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Speaker 3: of people kind of talk about being frustrated with the

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Speaker 3: ways they use their downtime, or like maybe saying something

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Speaker 3: like I don't have any downtime, but then if you

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Speaker 3: question them, they may actually spend a lot of their

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Speaker 3: time doing things they don't want to be doing and

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Speaker 3: feel a certain way about it. So I thought this

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Speaker 3: would be a fun way for us to just kind

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Speaker 3: of explore this topic and talk about it a little more,

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Speaker 3: including the ways that we rest, ways to enjoy rest.

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Speaker 3: And then you came up with the idea that one

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Speaker 3: way that we can get some rest as parents is

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Speaker 3: to make sure our partners are helping us achieve our

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Speaker 3: rest goals. I guess I.

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Speaker 2: Don't know our rest goals. Yes, we have goals about

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Speaker 2: everything around here. I have to admit I'm a little

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Speaker 2: bit skeptical of all the rest stuff. I mean, there's

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Speaker 2: certainly books talking about how we're all so overworked and

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Speaker 2: busy and we have to grab at rest from some

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Speaker 2: evil culture that doesn't want us to rest.

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Speaker 1: The culture doesn't care if you rest or not.

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Speaker 2: Honestly, and I think practically, the data is that the

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Speaker 2: average person has a reasonable amount of downtime in their lives.

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Speaker 2: The American Time You Survey comes out every June. Came

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Speaker 2: out in twenty twenty four. Looking at all the days

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Speaker 2: of twenty twenty three, thousands of Americans talking through their

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Speaker 2: previous day four am to four am on an average day,

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Speaker 2: I am quoting nearly everyone aged fifteen and over engaged

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Speaker 2: in some sort of leisure. The vast majority had many hours.

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Speaker 2: Most of this is spent on screens. If you look

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Speaker 2: at the time devoted to different things, a lot of

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Speaker 2: people still watching TV. Interestingly enough, I don't know exactly

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Speaker 2: how the American Time Youth Survey is counting all sorts

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Speaker 2: of video watching, Like is video watching on a phone

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Speaker 2: now being counted as sort of watching TV. It's hard

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Speaker 2: to know, but point being that the average American is

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Speaker 2: watching two point seven hours of television per day even

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Speaker 2: in this day and age, different proportions of people using

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Speaker 2: screens for leisure, games, socializing, and communicating whatever. It's all

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Speaker 2: a long list. People who have kids young kids at

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Speaker 2: home under age six have fewer hours per day of

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Speaker 2: leisure than other people. It comes out to about three

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Speaker 2: point three hours per day versus at least an hour

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Speaker 2: more than that for people who do not have kids

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Speaker 2: at home. And also that people between the ages of

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Speaker 2: like thirty five and forty four, I think have the

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Speaker 2: least about And so what was coming out of this

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Speaker 2: data for me is not that people who are like

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Speaker 2: in the demographic who watch listen to this podcast, so

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Speaker 2: you know, working parents with generally younger kids don't have

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Speaker 2: zero downtime, is that they tend to have less than

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Speaker 2: other people. And that may be parents versus non parents.

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Speaker 2: To some degree, men versus women. Men have a little

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Speaker 2: bit more than women do, and I think this may

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Speaker 2: explain why it's a sore point. So again, not that

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Speaker 2: working mothers get zero downtime, is that they get less

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Speaker 2: than other people in their lives, and so the comparison

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Speaker 2: is the part that can really start to irk.

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Speaker 3: I could see that question when they get this data,

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Speaker 3: are they asking people to recall a twenty four hour

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Speaker 3: window or are they like buzzing people on their phones

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Speaker 3: at three pm and saying, what are you doing now?

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Speaker 2: Well, it's yesterday, right, So it's talking through yesterday, which

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Speaker 2: is the American Timey Survey day. If I remember correctly,

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Speaker 2: it starts at four am, goes to four am, so

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Speaker 2: they're like, what were you doing at four am yesterday?

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Speaker 1: What did you do next?

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Speaker 2: And people can generally recall the previous twenty four hours

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Speaker 2: quite well. Past that, it starts to disappear rapidly, so

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Speaker 2: you remember, you know, lunch yesterday, You don't remember lunch

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Speaker 2: two days ago. I don't know why that is. There's

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Speaker 2: something with the human brain of how this goes. But

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Speaker 2: there have been comparisons of doing this reconstructive method of

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Speaker 2: talking it through versus like checking in buzzing, And it's

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Speaker 2: pretty accurate. It's not one hundred percent accurate, but it's

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Speaker 2: very close. And so you know, I mean, we have

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Speaker 2: often these stories we tell about our lives of like oh,

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Speaker 2: I have no free time whatsoever.

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Speaker 1: But that's based on the.

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Speaker 2: Day where you were working late and you had three

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Speaker 2: kid activities and some plumbing went awry and so you

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Speaker 2: spent all potential leisure time dealing with the plumber.

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Speaker 1: It's like, okay, well that was one day.

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Speaker 3: On another day you were on a disney cruise with

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Speaker 3: childcare all day and massage.

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Speaker 1: For now, it just.

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Speaker 2: Depends which day do we find you that we decide

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Speaker 2: which is typical. And of course, you know, one of

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Speaker 2: the things we like to talk about in this podcast

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Speaker 2: is that we want to look at all of life,

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Speaker 2: not one particular moment, but the comparison thing is what

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Speaker 2: I think gets a lot of people, and so we'll

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Speaker 2: definitely talk about that. But first, you don't want to

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Speaker 2: talk little bit about rethinking rest. Rest doesn't always need

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Speaker 2: to look like a day at the spa, nor does

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Speaker 2: it actually need to look at like sitting on the couch,

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Speaker 2: because in many cases, sitting on the couch scrolling around

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Speaker 2: online doesn't.

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Speaker 1: Actually feel all that RESTful.

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Speaker 2: It can in certain moments, I guess, But the purpose

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Speaker 2: of rest, I would say, is to rejuvenate you and

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Speaker 2: add to your energy levels. I mean, I don't know,

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Speaker 2: is that what you were thinking about with rest?

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Speaker 3: That's such an interesting question, because you're right, Like, and

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Speaker 3: I made a joke about rest goals, and I don't

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Speaker 3: love the idea of like rest framed as like something

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Speaker 3: you have to do to be more productive later. Like

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Speaker 3: I think there should be enjoyment of rest for rest's sake,

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Speaker 3: and for me, a lot of the activities that I

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Speaker 3: find RESTful are also inherently enjoyable in and of themselves.

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Speaker 3: So but you're right, I guess you could have sort

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Speaker 3: of some of each. That's an interesting question.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I.

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Speaker 2: Mean that rest could be lying down closing your eyes,

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Speaker 2: but rest could also be going for a solo walk

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Speaker 2: outside to clear your head. I mean, rest could be

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Speaker 2: doing a hobby that you find relaxing. So there's different

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Speaker 2: ways to think about it. So I would encourage people

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Speaker 2: not to just think of it as I need more

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Speaker 2: time on the couch, because for some of this that

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Speaker 2: doesn't actually sound that appealing to me. I don't know,

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Speaker 2: maybe it does to other people. Sometimes it really does.

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Speaker 3: As we'll talk about our own favorite forms of rest,

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Speaker 3: mine often does involve a couch, So that's I guess

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Speaker 3: okay too. If that brings you joy and rejuvenation, And

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Speaker 3: I don't know the right kind of what you need

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Speaker 3: to recover from the rest of life. My running coach

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Speaker 3: likes to say that there are no recovery runs. It's

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Speaker 3: only like preparation runs or something. But I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I kind of think there should be recovery time built

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Speaker 3: into our lives, particularly if we do maybe push hard

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Speaker 3: in other realms with our kids, with work, et cetera.

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Speaker 2: Exactly, All right, Well, we're going to take a quick

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Speaker 2: ad break and then we'll be back to talk about

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Speaker 2: what rest looks like and how we can get more

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Speaker 2: of it. Well, we are back talking all things rest

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Speaker 2: and then how we might be able to engineer more

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Speaker 2: RESTful times into a busy life with work and young kids. So, Sarah,

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Speaker 2: what are your favorite forms of rest if you are

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Speaker 2: going to make a list of things you find RESTful.

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Speaker 3: So, my most favorite RESTful activities are to have a

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Speaker 3: book that is fun to read, and to lie down

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Speaker 3: on the couch and read it and then maybe even

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Speaker 3: let it turn into a nap or perhaps lie down

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Speaker 3: with the purposes of taking a nap, but like kind

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Speaker 3: of to read first as like a little prelude and

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Speaker 3: I would say my kind of alternate form of rest

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Speaker 3: if I'm even kind of too tired to read or

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Speaker 3: just not in the mood to read, would be letting

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Speaker 3: myself lie around and either text with friends or a

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Speaker 3: family member, or maybe even watch like one of my

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Speaker 3: favorite YouTube creators that do planning stuff. And I'm not

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Speaker 3: a heavy YouTube user, so it's not like I'm like

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Speaker 3: clicking around constantly or keeping up with certain things, but

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Speaker 3: there are like very few channels I enjoy checking in on,

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Speaker 3: and if I'm just completely like unable to do much else,

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Speaker 3: then that is often what I will go to. We've

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Speaker 3: talked at length about various social media et cetera. I

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Speaker 3: quit read It one month ago. I have not been

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Speaker 3: on since June fifteenth, so that's kind of exciting, and

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Speaker 3: I feel like I did after. I mean, there were

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Speaker 3: times when I use social media for rest, but I

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Speaker 3: found it very unrestful and actually probably a little bit stressful,

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Speaker 3: and had kind of found Reddit creeping in as like

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Speaker 3: my social media substitute, so intentionally talk about manifestos. Quitting

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Speaker 3: that has been very very positive for me, and so

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Speaker 3: that is no longer a former rest that I turned to.

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Speaker 3: But I will say that I in the past did

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Speaker 3: some of that as well.

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Speaker 1: So I have a question.

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Speaker 2: When you read with the idea that it's going to

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Speaker 2: turn into a nap, do like actually put down your

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Speaker 2: book to then consciously go to sleep or does it kind.

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Speaker 1: Of like fall on you? Like how does this work?

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Speaker 3: Oh? No, I consciously put it down. So I do

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Speaker 3: a lot of my fiction reading lying down, So I'm

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Speaker 3: like laying on the couch on pillows, maybe with a blanket,

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Speaker 3: and then like when I'm like, oh, I'm I just

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Speaker 3: read this page three times. Perfect, put the book down,

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Speaker 3: go to sleep, go to sever nap. Okay.

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Speaker 2: I was just wondering, you know, if this is one

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Speaker 2: of these things. I know some people fall asleep reading,

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Speaker 2: and I've always wondered exactly what that looks like, because

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Speaker 2: it feels like then there's a heavy book that winds

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Speaker 2: up on you some way, shape or form.

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Speaker 3: I know what that looks like because my husband does

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Speaker 3: it sometimes. Yeah, so does one of my kids. But no,

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Speaker 3: I usually like actually put it down.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Well, the humor with that, I remember somebody telling me

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Speaker 2: about this. I was talking about somebody how they made

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Speaker 2: more time to read, and she mentioned you often is

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Speaker 2: falling asleep reading and then she wakes up because her

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Speaker 2: husban's like taking her glasses off.

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Speaker 1: She's in her bed.

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Speaker 2: I was like, you can fall asleep with your glasses

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Speaker 2: on while holding a book.

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Speaker 1: That's impressive. I don't believe I can do that. My

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Speaker 1: rest is there's a couple of things I like to do.

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Speaker 2: I like to sit in our hammock when the weather

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Speaker 2: is nice and read, or maybe it's reading stories and books,

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Speaker 2: but it could also be on my phone. I don't

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Speaker 2: mind using my phone for a little bit of downtime.

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Speaker 2: Going on a solo swim.

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Speaker 1: Again, this is summer.

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Speaker 2: Being in the pool on my own, just sort of

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Speaker 2: floating around is very RESTful to me. Doesn't happen very

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Speaker 2: often because I tend to be lifeguarding other people. But

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Speaker 2: I will take the moments when I'm there on my

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Speaker 2: own doing puzzles, like doing a puzzle. Although I've had

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Speaker 2: to choose the right kinds of puzzles because now that

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Speaker 2: I've done enough of them, I have definite preferences, and

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Speaker 2: sometimes I really want ones that are not mentally that taxing.

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Speaker 2: It's like a little taxing, but I kind of like

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Speaker 2: the ones where you're not totally stumped of where things go.

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Speaker 2: I find one hundred and fifty pieces of blue Sky

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Speaker 2: to be just tedious and not my favorite form of

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Speaker 2: puzzle doing. So I've been making sure to find puzzles

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Speaker 2: that are a little bit more filled in than that,

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Speaker 2: so I don't have to text my brain too much.

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Speaker 2: I like you, I find I spend a lot of

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Speaker 2: time texting. I don't know I was adding up my

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Speaker 2: texting time looking at my screen time function as many

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Speaker 2: hours a week, which I have not really included in

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Speaker 2: my mental model of what life looks like because it's

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Speaker 2: so quick, usually back and forth, like you know, three

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Speaker 2: minutes here and there are not even that. But obviously

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Speaker 2: it adds up if you look at the amount of

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Speaker 2: time you spend on messages on your phone.

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Speaker 3: And I find texting like one of my favorite uses

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Speaker 3: of the phone. I love my various groups that I have,

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Speaker 3: my college friends, texting you, texting my sister, texting my parents. Like,

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Speaker 3: there's a lot of texting in my day to day,

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Speaker 3: and I'm not sad about that particular motive device use.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and then I also just like to sit with

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Speaker 2: my cup of coffee for a little bit.

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Speaker 1: One thing I've been doing.

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Speaker 2: If I'm up early enough, is sometimes I will make

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Speaker 2: my coffee and go sit outside. Again, morning tends to

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Speaker 2: be nice in Pennsylvania in summer, although it's been a

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Speaker 2: bit muggy lately. But if I just challenge myself to

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Speaker 2: kind of sit and not look at my phone, or

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Speaker 2: sit and look at the sky and all that, even

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Speaker 2: five minutes can feel pretty long with no distractions, and

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Speaker 2: so being aware of what time is available, and if

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Speaker 2: you're not trying to distract yourself with other things, you

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Speaker 2: can get into that kind of WHOA.

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Speaker 1: I've had some downtime state fairly quickly with that.

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Speaker 2: But we encourage people to make a list, like make

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Speaker 2: a list of the things that you find RESTful, so

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Speaker 2: you at least have these top of mind. You also

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Speaker 2: want to think about how you are building in rest

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Speaker 2: into your life. And sometimes this is again if we're

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Speaker 2: thinking one hundred and sixty eight hours, not twenty four,

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Speaker 2: thinking through busy periods and less busy periods. Sarah, you've

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Speaker 2: actually made a conscious choice of how to structure your

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Speaker 2: schedule to deal with post call needing a little bit

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Speaker 2: more downtime. Maybe you can talk about that.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I find myself absolutely use. So my call is

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Speaker 3: from Monday morning to the next Monday morning, and currently

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Speaker 3: I also have Monday as a clinic day, so that

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Speaker 3: means basically, I mean until Monday at five pm. I'm like,

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Speaker 3: it's just all clinical stuff and a lot of responsibility

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Speaker 3: and a lot of stress no matter how long I

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Speaker 3: do it, and that's okay. Again not resenting the stress,

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Speaker 3: but I have to acknowledge it at the same time.

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Speaker 3: And the next day is a Tuesday, which is usually

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Speaker 3: a like podcasting day, et cetera. And I have found that,

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Speaker 3: like I don't want to do anything on that day

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Speaker 3: and I very much just crave some quiet, some silence,

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Speaker 3: some just downtime because I didn't get any on that

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Speaker 3: past weekend. Even if it wasn't a busy weekend, I'm

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Speaker 3: still thinking about the patients. I'm still sort of like

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Speaker 3: in it. So I just need like a I need

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Speaker 3: a recharge period. So my very low tech and ridiculous

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Speaker 3: solution is that my next call week, I was like,

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Speaker 3: let me just write on my planner, don't schedule anything,

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Speaker 3: because I will if I don't, like specifically have some

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Speaker 3: kind of block, I will put stuff and you know,

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Speaker 3: sometimes you end up putting stuff anyway. But at least

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Speaker 3: I can be mindful of the intensity of those activities,

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Speaker 3: like I'm not going to schedule a talk and invited

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Speaker 3: talk on that day or something like that, or a

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Speaker 3: mega recording session with Laura, as fun as those are,

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Speaker 3: Like I need some time not to be on stage,

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Speaker 3: and that post call day is really really important.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I've learned over the years that after I give

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Speaker 2: a speech, I tend not to be able to do

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Speaker 2: much focused work. And so especially if I'm like getting

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Speaker 2: on an airplane after a speech. In my mind, I'm like, well,

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Speaker 2: that's great work time, and then I've sort of realized, no,

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Speaker 2: it's not great work time. I tend to be like

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Speaker 2: I've been on and performing and then I need to

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Speaker 2: kind of not do that for a while. And I've

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Speaker 2: done back to back speeches, like I have done two

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Speaker 2: in a day, but it is very taxing when you

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Speaker 2: need to do that, and so I need to be

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Speaker 2: mindful of like, Okay, probably I'll just read a magazine

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Speaker 2: on the flight on the way home and give myself

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Speaker 2: permission to do that and build that into my model

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Speaker 2: of how the work is getting done in the course

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Speaker 2: of the week. Fine to do work on the flight

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Speaker 2: there flight home maybe not happening so much unless it's

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Speaker 2: the next day that I'm flying out. Totally makes sense.

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Speaker 2: What about during drink Oh, go ahead, Yeah, I was

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Speaker 2: gonna say during individual days, right, there are times that

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Speaker 2: you find you need some rest. I mean again fun

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Speaker 2: as these recording sessions are, I find if I've been

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Speaker 2: talking into a microphone for several hours, I probably need

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Speaker 2: to like not do anything for at least thirty minutes

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Speaker 2: after I finally turned the microphone off.

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Speaker 3: I would say, for me, it's like during my clinical days,

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Speaker 3: I've been talking, talking, talking, and also kind of moving

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Speaker 3: as fast as possible, like writing my notes, like kind

347
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Speaker 3: of an overdrive, and so I really crave that. It's

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Speaker 3: not always a full hour, but from like twelve fifteen

349
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Speaker 3: to one, I'm usually able to just do things that

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Speaker 3: are much lower speed and for me or it's like

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Speaker 3: lunch with friends or whatever. My manager was like, oh,

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Speaker 3: do you want to start your afternoon earlier so you

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Speaker 3: can finish earlier, because I guess some of my colleagues

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Speaker 3: wanted that, and I was like, absolutely not. I know

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Speaker 3: that I won't be able to go into the afternoon

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Speaker 3: with the right energy and mindset if I don't have

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Speaker 3: at least like a little bit of unwinding between the

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Speaker 3: two sessions.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I've found it's helpful when I'm trying to

360
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Speaker 2: get into a RESTful mindset. A phrase that I I've

361
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Speaker 2: been using a lot is cultivate a Saturday vibe. And now,

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Speaker 2: again both of us have lived through Saturdays with like

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Speaker 2: two year olds.

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Speaker 1: That is not what we mean. We mean more the.

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Speaker 2: Ideal Saturday where you maybe ease into the day and

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Speaker 2: you have a few things you need to get done,

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Speaker 2: but you're sort of moving a little bit slower and

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Speaker 2: doing fun things and interspersed with it. If you have

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Speaker 2: that kind of mindset of being in a Saturday mode,

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Speaker 2: that can kind of help you think about restfulness and

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Speaker 2: what you're trying to achieve.

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Speaker 3: So is your summer Saturday mode in general or no.

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Speaker 2: I'm trying to Yeah, I say, well, if June is

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Speaker 2: the Friday night of summer, I guess July is a Saturday.

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Speaker 2: So I've been telling myself to have a Saturday vibe

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Speaker 2: for July. Sometimes that's happening more than others.

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Speaker 1: But you know, super fun.

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Speaker 3: I like it.

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Speaker 1: It's all good. It's all good. So why is rest

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Speaker 1: a hot topic?

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Speaker 2: I mean, I think I read somewhere that like does

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Speaker 2: a feminist issue, which I don't know if that's the case,

383
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Speaker 2: but because I think many people don't feel that rest

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Speaker 2: is entirely equal in their lives, whether it's with other

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Speaker 2: people they know, sometimes with their own partners, or even

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Speaker 2: like their older children, I think that this is the

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Speaker 2: thing that needs to be addressed. I know I've found

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Speaker 2: myself feeling slightly resentful. If you know, we've just had

389
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Speaker 2: dinner and my kids all like walk off and the

390
00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:32,920
Speaker 2: kitchen still has to be cleaned up, and I'm like,

391
00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:35,359
Speaker 2: wait a minute, why do you go get to watch

392
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Speaker 2: your phone while I'm loading the dishwasher. This doesn't seem right.

393
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Speaker 2: Why do you feel even entitled to walk off and

394
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Speaker 2: go on your phone? If because obviously I will stop

395
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Speaker 2: people and ask them to help. But then it gets

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Speaker 2: a little bit like, wait a minute, why.

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Speaker 3: Did I even have to ask? Why is this considered

398
00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:53,840
Speaker 3: part of your purview as well?

399
00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:56,920
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah that why are you going to rest so quickly?

400
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Speaker 2: And I do not automatically get this. So this brings

401
00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:04,560
Speaker 2: us to part two, which is the trade off manifesto.

402
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Speaker 3: I'm so glad you called it a manifesto because I

403
00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:09,159
Speaker 3: love manifestos.

404
00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:10,359
Speaker 1: You love manifestos.

405
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Speaker 3: I just think that it's perfect trade off manifesto.

406
00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:17,280
Speaker 2: How do you for sure get rest if you have

407
00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:21,800
Speaker 2: little kids, for instance, and a busy life, and if

408
00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:25,680
Speaker 2: you are in a two parent family, Adopting a very

409
00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:29,840
Speaker 2: explicit strategy of trading off for blocks of time over

410
00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:35,360
Speaker 2: who is with the kids allows each party to have

411
00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:40,320
Speaker 2: some moments of real rest, even though there are little

412
00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:43,480
Speaker 2: people around who need constant vigilance.

413
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Speaker 1: And one way to think about this.

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Speaker 2: Which I know some folks who gotten divorced and wound

415
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Speaker 2: up with fifty to fifty co parenting arrangements. Each of

416
00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:57,840
Speaker 2: them is then fully on with the kids fifty percent

417
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Speaker 2: of the time, and for many people that has been

418
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Speaker 2: a growing and learning experience if they were not used

419
00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:06,679
Speaker 2: to being fully on with the kids fifty percent of

420
00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:10,160
Speaker 2: the time, but now they are doing it and everyone

421
00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:12,960
Speaker 2: is dealing, and the idea is, well, why not do

422
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:16,359
Speaker 2: at least some of that while you're still married so

423
00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:19,800
Speaker 2: you don't necessarily wind up in a resentful situation over

424
00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:22,679
Speaker 2: this where it confess to and lead to problems in

425
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Speaker 2: the marriage long term, or you know, hopefully not ending

426
00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:26,840
Speaker 2: over something like.

427
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Speaker 3: This where you want your free time so badly, you're like, fine,

428
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Speaker 3: fifty to fifty.

429
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Speaker 1: Fifty to fifty sounds great.

430
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Speaker 2: Yeah, Now we want to make sure that you can

431
00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:39,399
Speaker 2: have free time while remaining happily partnered, if that is

432
00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:44,640
Speaker 2: your current state. So the idea is that you actually

433
00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:48,520
Speaker 2: map it out because I think many women, and again

434
00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:51,040
Speaker 2: we speak mostly with women in this, their partners are

435
00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:53,800
Speaker 2: kind of an under utilized resource in the quest to

436
00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:56,639
Speaker 2: get downtime. Like you all hang out together on weekends

437
00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:58,280
Speaker 2: or evenings, and that's great, but I mean, the guy

438
00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:00,760
Speaker 2: is willing to be helpful. But if you are the

439
00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:04,240
Speaker 2: primary parent and the kids consider you the primary parents,

440
00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:06,199
Speaker 2: and even when you're all hanging out together, like you're

441
00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:08,480
Speaker 2: all sitting on the couch, the kid is asking you

442
00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:10,679
Speaker 2: to go get the drink of water. It is a mommy,

443
00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:12,520
Speaker 2: I need help with the potty or mommy, you know,

444
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:15,520
Speaker 2: it's just and so you don't get the downtime, and

445
00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:17,840
Speaker 2: it can lead to this resentful because you're all there,

446
00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:21,719
Speaker 2: but neither you are not getting any of the rest

447
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:24,520
Speaker 2: so half hours where each of.

448
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:27,360
Speaker 1: You is officially in charge.

449
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:30,359
Speaker 3: I mean, do you guys, do this at all, I

450
00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:34,119
Speaker 3: would say we at this juncture, do not do it explicitly.

451
00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:37,479
Speaker 3: I did find a blog post and I had a

452
00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:41,680
Speaker 3: memory of doing it very explicitly when we had one

453
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:45,919
Speaker 3: like eight month old, and I really felt like I

454
00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:48,720
Speaker 3: needed some time to just not be I think she

455
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:50,880
Speaker 3: was newly crawling, so it was at that stage where

456
00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:54,359
Speaker 3: you're like, I am on injury prevention every single second

457
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:58,480
Speaker 3: she is awake, because it's like otherwise head injuries happen

458
00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:01,560
Speaker 3: and it's my fault. So one weekend I was like,

459
00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:04,240
Speaker 3: let's literally take shifts. And by the way, the naps

460
00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:05,680
Speaker 3: don't count, so you don't get to be like, oh, well,

461
00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:06,240
Speaker 3: my shift she.

462
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:10,760
Speaker 1: Happened one to three in the afternoon. Yes, And I

463
00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:11,440
Speaker 1: like mapped it.

464
00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:14,439
Speaker 3: Out specifically so that like during her awake time we

465
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:16,639
Speaker 3: were sharing. And I think I remember when I first

466
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:19,960
Speaker 3: posed this, it was like huh, like why and it's

467
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:22,120
Speaker 3: like but then actually he was like, Okay, I kind

468
00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:23,800
Speaker 3: of see it because the fact that I was like

469
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:25,960
Speaker 3: why means that maybe you.

470
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:28,000
Speaker 1: Were doing defaults.

471
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:30,159
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean he was like doing it, but I

472
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:32,400
Speaker 3: was like the default doing it. And again there was breastfeeding,

473
00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:35,480
Speaker 3: like there were reasons for that to some extent, but anyway,

474
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 3: it did work on that day. The blog post strikes

475
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,480
Speaker 3: me as somewhat embarrassing for whatever reason now, but yes,

476
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:45,480
Speaker 3: we did it in a very explicit way back then,

477
00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:48,760
Speaker 3: and I think that can work in certain scenarios. At

478
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:52,720
Speaker 3: this point, I don't feel I need quite that level

479
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:57,639
Speaker 3: of like scheduling, mostly because the kids do not really

480
00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:01,440
Speaker 3: need like one on one following at ages six, ten

481
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:03,640
Speaker 3: and twelve. So instead I just try to be really

482
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,600
Speaker 3: really upfront about what I do need, and I will

483
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:10,159
Speaker 3: announce I'm taking a nap and dare anyone to challenge me,

484
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:13,879
Speaker 3: and usually they don't, which is wonderful, and then I

485
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:16,920
Speaker 3: take my nap, or I will specifically say, like, hey,

486
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:19,720
Speaker 3: I'm going to take the girls to get our nails done,

487
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 3: like can you do something? Well that's splitting the kids,

488
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:24,280
Speaker 3: But sometimes it'll be I'm taking all three kids to this,

489
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:26,320
Speaker 3: can you take them all three to a movie tomorrow?

490
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:28,280
Speaker 3: So that like I can get some time And so

491
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:30,920
Speaker 3: I'll make a suggestion and then that will kind of

492
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:33,760
Speaker 3: work out, and then maybe it also serves you know,

493
00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:35,199
Speaker 3: with the ages of the kids, we can kind of

494
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:37,400
Speaker 3: fit the interest to the activities as.

495
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:42,120
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I've definitely had. I mean, I remember when

496
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:45,560
Speaker 2: the kids were really little, like when we were living

497
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:48,600
Speaker 2: in New York, we had going for quite a while

498
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 2: that Michael would take them out of the house on

499
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:57,399
Speaker 2: Saturday or Sunday for excursion of some variety, and the

500
00:25:57,440 --> 00:25:59,359
Speaker 2: idea is that they would go out and do something

501
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:03,399
Speaker 2: and not be home right because then I could be

502
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:03,840
Speaker 2: in the.

503
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:06,200
Speaker 1: House by myself. That was good.

504
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:08,600
Speaker 2: That was a recognition that I was doing more of

505
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:11,160
Speaker 2: it during the week, and then he needed to do

506
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 2: his shift on the weekend. And again, as the kids

507
00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:16,600
Speaker 2: get older, you need less of it. But we're still

508
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:19,120
Speaker 2: tell you with Henry like, Okay, this is your time.

509
00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:21,960
Speaker 2: You're gonna go play this video game with him. That's

510
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:24,960
Speaker 2: one thing they do together. And then I can go

511
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:28,040
Speaker 2: outside and sit on my hammock and relax and then

512
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:30,879
Speaker 2: make sure that it's explicit like who is in charge

513
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:32,760
Speaker 2: of him at any given time.

514
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 1: So there is definitely some of it.

515
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:36,359
Speaker 2: We're gonna take one more quick ad break and then

516
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:38,680
Speaker 2: we'll be back with more on how we can make

517
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 2: trading off work. Well, we are back talking how we

518
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 2: can have rest and downtime, particularly if there are little

519
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:00,959
Speaker 2: kids involved. And we're saying that in families that have

520
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:04,520
Speaker 2: two parents, having a very explicit schedule of trading off

521
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:09,040
Speaker 2: can increase the chances that both parties get adequate downtime,

522
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:12,000
Speaker 2: both the person that might more automatically get it and

523
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 2: the person who might be less likely to automatically get

524
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:18,040
Speaker 2: the rest that they feel that they need. Now, are

525
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 2: we saying it has to be every single one hour

526
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:22,359
Speaker 2: of the one hundred and sixty eight hours in a week. Well, no,

527
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:24,720
Speaker 2: if you are not divorced and co parenting and so

528
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:29,680
Speaker 2: actually you're totally splitting the week, then obviously there's gonna

529
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 2: be time when you're all together. But you might need

530
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:35,560
Speaker 2: to think about what would make it feel adequate for me.

531
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:38,159
Speaker 2: And maybe it's that one party gets Saturday morning and

532
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 2: one gets Saturday after noon and you spend Saturday evening

533
00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:44,520
Speaker 2: together as a family. Or maybe one party gets Friday night,

534
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 2: the other gets a few hours on Sunday afternoon. Maybe

535
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:51,240
Speaker 2: one party wants the mornings to themselves during the week

536
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 2: and that works and then the other party. You know,

537
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:56,600
Speaker 2: then that party who is off on the mornings will

538
00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:59,679
Speaker 2: do the early evenings or whatever it happens to be.

539
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,560
Speaker 2: But thinking about what it might look like in the

540
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:04,400
Speaker 2: family schedule.

541
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:07,720
Speaker 3: I think this is just such an important conversation because

542
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:11,240
Speaker 3: one thing that sometimes strikes me as I'm listening to

543
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 3: podcasts with male hosts and them talking about fitting in

544
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:18,400
Speaker 3: their workout and getting their downtime, is I love hearing

545
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:21,639
Speaker 3: about them taking their retreat, but like, please normalize it

546
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:25,719
Speaker 3: for the female have to And I think that's actually important.

547
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,679
Speaker 3: Even if one partner is more staying at home or

548
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:32,680
Speaker 3: has a less demanding job, that persons still going to

549
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:34,840
Speaker 3: need some like alone time and some rich charge times.

550
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 3: So I think this just has to really really go

551
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:41,040
Speaker 3: both ways. And I don't necessarily mean a fifty to

552
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:44,320
Speaker 3: fifty split. I mean we can talk about that, but

553
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:48,520
Speaker 3: instead each person truly getting what they want a need

554
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 3: out of life, out of the relationship, out of the partnership,

555
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:54,440
Speaker 3: et cetera. And I guess I feel like this isn't.

556
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:55,000
Speaker 1: Talked about enough.

557
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:58,240
Speaker 3: People love to talk about their own stuff, and then

558
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 3: sometimes there's just this like nebulous partner lurking in the

559
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 3: distance that seems to be soaking up all the excess.

560
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 3: And I guess this conversation will tell you. I guess

561
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 3: we are that partner and we want our own time too.

562
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:13,920
Speaker 2: Well, and we're saying it could be a couple hours

563
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:16,760
Speaker 2: built into sort of the weekly schedule. It can also

564
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:19,640
Speaker 2: be that when you are on vacation with a family,

565
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:23,240
Speaker 2: maybe you trade off days, like one of you covers

566
00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 2: one day and then the other partner covers the other day,

567
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 2: so we each get some downtime on vacation. I well

568
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:32,040
Speaker 2: remember Michael and I did this when we were with

569
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 2: the family in San Diego in twenty sixteens. We had

570
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:39,760
Speaker 2: four very young kids at that point, and he took

571
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:42,920
Speaker 2: them all, which, by the way, our nanny at the

572
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 2: time came too, So it's a we were trading off

573
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:48,680
Speaker 2: with help, but it was still one partner was going

574
00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 2: with it. They went to Disneyland for the day, so

575
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 2: I had a whole day all to myself. It was awesome,

576
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 2: and I covered another day for sure. Or you could

577
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 2: also do long weekends like I think. I think each

578
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:05,360
Speaker 2: partner should ideally get at least one long weekend away

579
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:07,320
Speaker 2: in the course of the year to do what you want.

580
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 2: You don't have to spend all your PTO together. It's

581
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 2: really hard also for many families to get an overnight

582
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:16,320
Speaker 2: babysitter but it is not at all hard for one

583
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 2: parent to be the overnight coverage, so you can take

584
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:24,719
Speaker 2: a couple days away pretty easily if the partner is covering,

585
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:26,960
Speaker 2: versus if both of you are trying to go. It's

586
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:29,800
Speaker 2: this huge trying to fit together all sorts of different

587
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:31,600
Speaker 2: kinds of childcare to make it work.

588
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:35,360
Speaker 3: I struggle with this one, mostly because I seem to

589
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:39,360
Speaker 3: be the only one that really wants these weekends. But

590
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:41,960
Speaker 3: I guess it is what it is, and I'll continue

591
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:44,720
Speaker 3: to encourage Josh to I don't know, not that he

592
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 3: specifically has to go away, but if there's some event

593
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:49,280
Speaker 3: or thing that excites him to make sure that he

594
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:51,600
Speaker 3: carves out time to do that. It's a concert or

595
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:54,720
Speaker 3: a sports event or whatever it is. So addressing a

596
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:59,160
Speaker 3: few objections with the trade off philosophy here. Obviously, if

597
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:03,880
Speaker 3: people don't have a partner co parent, this is much harder,

598
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:10,080
Speaker 3: but you can perhaps co op with another mom who

599
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:12,040
Speaker 3: is in a similar situation. So if you have a

600
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:15,040
Speaker 3: good friend who is also a single parent, a neighbor

601
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 3: who is also a single parent, or you know a

602
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:20,520
Speaker 3: relative in a similar situation, the two of you can say, okay, well,

603
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:22,480
Speaker 3: I host the play date on Saturday. She hosts the

604
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 3: play date on Sunday. That gives each of us some

605
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 3: time off to do whatever we need to for ourselves

606
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 3: and hopefully relax.

607
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:33,360
Speaker 1: There are some people who have.

608
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:38,160
Speaker 2: Agreements with families, So perhaps a single mom's extended family

609
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 2: takes the kid one weekend a month. That might be

610
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:44,560
Speaker 2: a really great situation that an extended family might be

611
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 2: willing to offer as something to help make life feel

612
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:54,080
Speaker 2: more sustainable for her. You can budget for your rest.

613
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 2: Think about if you were co parenting with somebody, your

614
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 2: kids were going off to that person, like, what would

615
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:04,000
Speaker 2: it look like and sort of there was an old

616
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:07,480
Speaker 2: custody arrangement. I guess where the kids would go to

617
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:11,800
Speaker 2: dad for Wednesday evening and every other Saturday or something

618
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 2: like that. So maybe that's what you budget for, right

619
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 2: one every weekday, one Wednesday evening and a couple of

620
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:18,960
Speaker 2: hours on Saturday.

621
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 3: You're talking about paid care, and that ye care, right

622
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:23,200
Speaker 3: to hire a sitter, that makes.

623
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 2: Hire a sitter for that and or even if you

624
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:28,680
Speaker 2: have regular work childcare being able to stretch it a

625
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 2: tiny bit. So maybe it's something like your daycare is

626
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 2: from eight to six, but you are often done with

627
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:37,240
Speaker 2: work at five. You normally just get your kid then,

628
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:39,960
Speaker 2: and that is awesome, But maybe two days a week

629
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 2: you let it go a little closer to six and

630
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:46,240
Speaker 2: give yourself that fifty minutes to just chill and try

631
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:49,200
Speaker 2: to rejuvenate yourself before you have the evening on.

632
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:53,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I absolutely acknowledge that all of this

633
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:58,160
Speaker 3: does become more complicated when you are single, and I

634
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:01,600
Speaker 3: can hear some arguments from single people close to me,

635
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:04,960
Speaker 3: but I think that still there are probably something is

636
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:08,040
Speaker 3: better than nothing in many cases, and even small doses

637
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:11,360
Speaker 3: of extra downtime can feel like a lot when it's

638
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 3: going from zero to something.

639
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 1: Yeah.

640
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 2: Now, of course, the related objection is I have a partner,

641
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:20,440
Speaker 2: but he's never reliably around. I would push back on

642
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:22,920
Speaker 2: this for the vast.

643
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:24,480
Speaker 1: Majority of jobs.

644
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:30,160
Speaker 2: Now, obviously, if your husband is deployed somewhere for nine months,

645
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:33,720
Speaker 2: that is a different scenario, and then you can go

646
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 2: back to the ways you might build and rest in

647
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:40,360
Speaker 2: downtime if you don't have a partner around. But if

648
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:42,800
Speaker 2: we're talking to somebody with a fairly normal job, they

649
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:45,720
Speaker 2: just tend to work longer hours, there's probably at least

650
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:48,000
Speaker 2: some point that they could take. You know, maybe it's

651
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 2: that they're almost never working on Saturday mornings, well maybe

652
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:54,880
Speaker 2: that could be your time, or maybe it's that you

653
00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:59,560
Speaker 2: also then hopefully your partner's being compensated for all this availability,

654
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 2: and you can hire a sitter, right, Sarah.

655
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:04,520
Speaker 3: Yes. And my favorite reminder is like, if that is

656
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:07,600
Speaker 3: the case, the sitter is not covering you, they're really

657
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:10,760
Speaker 3: covering your partner. If you're doing ninety percent of stuff

658
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:12,399
Speaker 3: and you want to do eighty percent and you want

659
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:14,839
Speaker 3: that ten percent help and your partner really can't do it,

660
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 3: then again you should feel very much good about getting

661
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:22,160
Speaker 3: that help and not even feel like it's kind of

662
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:26,560
Speaker 3: subbing your labor. It's really subbing the other person. Yeah, exactly.

663
00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:31,600
Speaker 2: A second objection is that this all seems so transactional

664
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:34,520
Speaker 2: and petty, Like, if we're in a loving family, why

665
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:39,720
Speaker 2: do we need to explicitly say that Dad covers Thursday evening,

666
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:42,240
Speaker 2: Mom covers Wednesday evening, and we split Saturday.

667
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 1: So, Sarah, what would you say to that?

668
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 3: And this is not from, by the way, not from

669
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:50,719
Speaker 3: personal experience myself, but from more hearing other people, But

670
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:52,960
Speaker 3: I feel like from what people have told me, the

671
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:54,879
Speaker 3: ones who object to with the most are the ones

672
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:57,239
Speaker 3: who are kind of slept with this striking realization that

673
00:34:57,280 --> 00:34:58,839
Speaker 3: they're going to have to do a lot more than

674
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:02,839
Speaker 3: they are current. So it may not seem petty if

675
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:04,160
Speaker 3: it's not a big change, but if all of a

676
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 3: sudden they're like, wait, I have to do bedtime twice

677
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:06,479
Speaker 3: a week.

678
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:10,560
Speaker 2: Oh, that's so petty. Like, hm, I don't know, maybe

679
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:13,239
Speaker 2: it's not so petty. Maybe it's time to step up

680
00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:15,880
Speaker 2: to the game. Yeah. And the earlier you start, the

681
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:18,760
Speaker 2: more natural it will seem for everyone, because everyone becomes

682
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:21,520
Speaker 2: competent with taking care of the kids on their own.

683
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:25,400
Speaker 2: I know we've both laughed when we've heard some mostly

684
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:27,879
Speaker 2: fathers make the joke when they have the third kid

685
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:29,960
Speaker 2: of like, oh, we're moving from man to man to

686
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 2: zone defense. It's like, well, that means you have never

687
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:35,000
Speaker 2: taken the two kids on your own. It's like, that

688
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:37,759
Speaker 2: is a pretty embarrassing revelation if you're already by your

689
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:44,200
Speaker 2: third child. So let's make sure that everyone can do

690
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:47,359
Speaker 2: all the parenting on their own should they need to.

691
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:50,800
Speaker 2: And you know, in some of my studies, you know,

692
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 2: I've suggested people go take one night for them to

693
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:55,680
Speaker 2: do a hobby and people like women. It's always women

694
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:59,960
Speaker 2: have said, well my partner can't handle multiple kid bedtimes.

695
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:03,359
Speaker 2: It's like, well, because that's he's never had to. But

696
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:09,440
Speaker 2: if he is not completely incompetent, my guess is he

697
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:10,279
Speaker 2: can do it.

698
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:13,000
Speaker 1: If he needs to, he can learn.

699
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:16,879
Speaker 2: And so the earlier you start with that, the more

700
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:20,920
Speaker 2: comfortable and confident everyone will feel in their parenting.

701
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:25,319
Speaker 3: I will say, as a related note, I personally find

702
00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:28,839
Speaker 3: it sometimes easier to parent, especially in the bedtime hour

703
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:32,360
Speaker 3: when I am by myself with all three kids. Because

704
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:35,319
Speaker 3: we've talked about this before. It's like it's becomes like

705
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:38,600
Speaker 3: a dictator ship or something like I'm the only one

706
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:40,919
Speaker 3: we'll do there's no one to diffuse, like well mom

707
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:42,920
Speaker 3: said this, but Dad usually lets me do that, and

708
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:44,560
Speaker 3: blah blah blah. It's like, nope, sorry, I'm the only

709
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:46,160
Speaker 3: one here. To the point where my kids will be

710
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:49,839
Speaker 3: like is daddy home and I'm like nope. That means

711
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 3: you have to listen to me, and it actually kind

712
00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:52,440
Speaker 3: of works.

713
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:54,480
Speaker 1: So yeah, well I found this.

714
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:57,040
Speaker 2: I mean, because we've split the family for I mean,

715
00:36:57,040 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 2: with five kids, use less of this. You know, one

716
00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:01,319
Speaker 2: person taking all five often, but you know we have,

717
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:04,480
Speaker 2: but like if we have split family trips that I'm

718
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:06,839
Speaker 2: taking some of the kids and Michael's taking some of

719
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:09,920
Speaker 2: the others, you are fully in charge, right, There's no

720
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 2: question of who's in charge. Whereas if the both of

721
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:14,600
Speaker 2: us are together, we're negotiating over different things, what we're

722
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:17,480
Speaker 2: doing at different points. We may have different interests and

723
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:20,960
Speaker 2: we're both sort of figuring out what we're going to

724
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:24,400
Speaker 2: go with. Whereas, yes, when you are the only adult

725
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:27,480
Speaker 2: that you can run it as your benevolent dictatorship, and

726
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:30,640
Speaker 2: sometimes that is easier even if you don't have the

727
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:35,640
Speaker 2: support of the other person. The last objection, the problem

728
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:38,360
Speaker 2: with all this trading off is we like family time altogether.

729
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 1: Say, well, great, I do too.

730
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:43,399
Speaker 2: Covering for each other for a few hours per week

731
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:46,040
Speaker 2: so everyone can get adequate rest does not negate that

732
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:48,160
Speaker 2: at all. There are one hundred and sixty eight hours

733
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:50,840
Speaker 2: in a week, fifty two weeks in a year, right, Sarah,

734
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:51,720
Speaker 2: you can still.

735
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:53,880
Speaker 3: Have a lot of time together. Yes, so I think

736
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:55,920
Speaker 3: this is really important. It doesn't have to be an

737
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 3: all or nothing thing. It does not have to be

738
00:37:57,640 --> 00:37:59,920
Speaker 3: an even split. We're not dividing one hundred and six

739
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:03,000
Speaker 3: into two and you'll never see each other again. But

740
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:05,320
Speaker 3: at the same time, I think many of us find

741
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:08,120
Speaker 3: that having some solo, non kid experiences is very life

742
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:10,920
Speaker 3: and enriching, and there should be ways that we can

743
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:12,800
Speaker 3: all have a little of that in our lives.

744
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:14,839
Speaker 1: Absolutely well.

745
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:21,640
Speaker 2: Today's question is somewhat about trading off, but figuring out

746
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:25,120
Speaker 2: what somebody wants to be when they grow up when

747
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:27,719
Speaker 2: they have had their kids quite young. So i'll paraphrase

748
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:30,879
Speaker 2: this question, then Sarah can give her answers that she's

749
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:35,320
Speaker 2: sent to this person. This listener had her fourth and

750
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:38,799
Speaker 2: she says final baby about six months ago, so she

751
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:43,120
Speaker 2: has four kids who are ages six to baby.

752
00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:45,640
Speaker 1: She is only twenty nine years old.

753
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:49,560
Speaker 2: She has taken some time off work for various reasons

754
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 2: while her kids were little. During this time, her husband's

755
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:57,440
Speaker 2: income has gone up considerably. However, now that she has

756
00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:00,919
Speaker 2: done with having her babies, she is itching to get

757
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:05,240
Speaker 2: back into the workforce to some degree. However, she's wondering

758
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:08,480
Speaker 2: if maybe it seems like the only reason she needs

759
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:12,520
Speaker 2: she would be working is to keep herself from being bored,

760
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:16,160
Speaker 2: So she's a little wondering if that's okay. She's also

761
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:19,440
Speaker 2: feeling like all the universe is open to her given

762
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:21,000
Speaker 2: that she is so young. I mean, she could go

763
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:23,440
Speaker 2: back to school, she could try a completely different career,

764
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:27,239
Speaker 2: she could get re licensed in her particular area. So

765
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:32,520
Speaker 2: she's just unclear how to proceed from there and wondering

766
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:35,279
Speaker 2: if she should be trying to get back in the

767
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:39,240
Speaker 2: workforce and also what she should be doing. So, Sarah,

768
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:42,000
Speaker 2: you had a few thoughts for her. Yeah, this was

769
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:46,160
Speaker 2: such an interesting question. I want to read one quote

770
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:48,879
Speaker 2: from this. Very lad did a wonderful paraphrase, but there

771
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:50,480
Speaker 2: was a good quoting here.

772
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:52,640
Speaker 3: I'm just gonna read it. And she said she's itching

773
00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:55,719
Speaker 3: to get into more development and MEETI work to dig

774
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:59,280
Speaker 3: into with newfound intellectual and emotional bandwidth and the buying

775
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:01,600
Speaker 3: power to me maybe start making space on the calendar.

776
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 3: She feels like she has all the building blocks. If

777
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:05,560
Speaker 3: she could just make sure she was going in the

778
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:08,480
Speaker 3: right direction, she could make it happen. But for a

779
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:12,359
Speaker 3: career that is quote potentially inconvenient and financially unimportant, I'm

780
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:14,120
Speaker 3: feeling pressure to make sure it is somehow the most

781
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:17,480
Speaker 3: fulfilling possible option. Oh my gosh, so much pressure this

782
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:19,880
Speaker 3: person is putting on herself. So, and I think this

783
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:22,000
Speaker 3: is such a great question, and she is a very

784
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:24,680
Speaker 3: thoughtful person for kind of like laying it all out there.

785
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:26,600
Speaker 3: So I hope that maybe even just sending the question

786
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:30,239
Speaker 3: has been helpful. My first few thoughts have been are

787
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:32,160
Speaker 3: kind of like the like depressing side of this, which

788
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:35,400
Speaker 3: is like you just never know. I mean, maybe you're okay,

789
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:37,400
Speaker 3: Like maybe your spouse is like a hedge fund billionaire,

790
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:39,359
Speaker 3: and this is like a moot point, but like if

791
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 3: it's just like someone who makes a good high earning,

792
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:45,839
Speaker 3: that could change. Maybe that person won't have a long

793
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:48,040
Speaker 3: life and long working life like you expect them to.

794
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:50,560
Speaker 3: Maybe the relationship won't last like you expected to, Like

795
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:54,520
Speaker 3: you just kind of never know. So assuming that whatever

796
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:56,840
Speaker 3: you do is always going to be financially unimportant, I

797
00:40:56,880 --> 00:41:02,400
Speaker 3: think is a little bit dangerous in most cases. Plus,

798
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:04,200
Speaker 3: there's always the chance that even if they do have

799
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:06,560
Speaker 3: this wonderful, high powered career, what if at some point

800
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:09,160
Speaker 3: they decide like they're burned out and they want to

801
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:11,399
Speaker 3: kind of do something a little more low key, And

802
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:15,160
Speaker 3: so maybe you would find yourself feeling a little bit

803
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:18,480
Speaker 3: more important. Another thing on that note, and again, if

804
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:21,359
Speaker 3: he's a hedge fund billionaire this maybe again, but.

805
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:23,879
Speaker 2: At which point you can do whatever you want to, right,

806
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:26,239
Speaker 2: Like I mean, you want to start a business that's

807
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 2: losing fifty thousand dollars a month, go for it. Yes,

808
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:33,120
Speaker 2: But I get I mean, you know, honestly like that,

809
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:37,480
Speaker 2: because right any just do whatever you want just for

810
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:38,319
Speaker 2: absolute fun.

811
00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:40,759
Speaker 3: But no, I was going to argue the financial piece again,

812
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:45,200
Speaker 3: which is that I feel like going in when my

813
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:47,520
Speaker 3: kids were little, I thought X amount of money would

814
00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:49,239
Speaker 3: be like a great amount of money, and that more

815
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:50,839
Speaker 3: than we could know what to do with. And as

816
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:53,480
Speaker 3: they've gotten older, I've only like found more and more

817
00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:57,280
Speaker 3: expensive things I want to give to them, experiences whatever,

818
00:41:57,400 --> 00:41:58,560
Speaker 3: I mean, are they needed?

819
00:41:58,880 --> 00:41:59,040
Speaker 2: No?

820
00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:02,719
Speaker 3: But like, do I find value in some of them? Yes?

821
00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 3: And am I glad that I have a job that

822
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:07,640
Speaker 3: helps making some of them more feasible? But that might

823
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:11,000
Speaker 3: not be if they're so lopsided, that might not be true.

824
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:12,719
Speaker 3: But I'm just just throwing that out there that you

825
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:14,440
Speaker 3: might not know what the magic total will be for

826
00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:16,279
Speaker 3: you when the kids are older. Maybe it's higher than

827
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:18,120
Speaker 3: you think. Now, I guess that's what I was getting at.

828
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:21,759
Speaker 3: And then I just thought, like I hear a lot

829
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:26,360
Speaker 3: of like perfection, like I have to find my perfect thing,

830
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:30,720
Speaker 3: or like pie in the sky like idea. And I think, remember,

831
00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:32,480
Speaker 3: you can do career crafting, and the only way you're

832
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:34,080
Speaker 3: going to figure out if certain pass work is to

833
00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:37,880
Speaker 3: probably try them. So I would try to let go

834
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:41,840
Speaker 3: of the idea of finding the exact passion direction position

835
00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:45,680
Speaker 3: because that may make you kind of stuck in paralysis

836
00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:46,880
Speaker 3: for years.

837
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:50,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I think she can definitely give herself six

838
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:52,399
Speaker 2: to twelve months to think about it again because she's

839
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:53,880
Speaker 2: so young. She's like, well, I can start anything at

840
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:55,920
Speaker 2: twenty nine, where you can start anything at thirty.

841
00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:58,680
Speaker 1: Two, So it's it's totally fine.

842
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:00,920
Speaker 2: I mean, even if you do to do a career

843
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:02,320
Speaker 2: with a long training field, like you want to go

844
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:04,000
Speaker 2: to law school, you want to go to medical school,

845
00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:07,239
Speaker 2: like you could do that at thirty just like you

846
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:11,399
Speaker 2: could do it at twenty nine. So think about what

847
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:14,719
Speaker 2: this is. Spend six to twelve months really actually practically

848
00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:17,200
Speaker 2: trying things out. You know, what do I want to

849
00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:20,960
Speaker 2: be when I grow up? Try little projects in different

850
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:24,520
Speaker 2: areas that you find interesting, Make long lists of anything

851
00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:27,880
Speaker 2: you think are exciting to do, ways you like spending

852
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:30,480
Speaker 2: your time, and then you can start weaving these together

853
00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:34,000
Speaker 2: and figuring out what your ideal life will look like,

854
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:36,600
Speaker 2: doing a lot of networking because people will have ideas

855
00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:40,400
Speaker 2: of what you could try doing, and let go of

856
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:43,440
Speaker 2: this idea that you're going to find anything perfectly immediately.

857
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:47,759
Speaker 2: But as you try things out, then you can try

858
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:49,640
Speaker 2: the next thing out. And again, if you don't have

859
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:52,439
Speaker 2: to work, which is what we're hearing with this, then

860
00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:56,800
Speaker 2: you don't have to decide this quickly. You can try

861
00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:59,919
Speaker 2: something and then try something else. But over the course

862
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:02,120
Speaker 2: of a couple years, I think you will figure out

863
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:06,480
Speaker 2: a job that you really really enjoy and that uses

864
00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:10,560
Speaker 2: your brain and that makes you feel like you're contributing

865
00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:13,360
Speaker 2: in multiple different spheres with all your kids and in

866
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:17,440
Speaker 2: the larger world as well. Something meaty, as you put it.

867
00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:19,680
Speaker 2: I love that something meaty. I know she's bored.

868
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:20,200
Speaker 3: She was.

869
00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:21,359
Speaker 1: In her letter.

870
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:23,319
Speaker 2: She mentioned she'd done all their house projects, she was

871
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:25,440
Speaker 2: reading one hundred books a year. It was time for

872
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:27,759
Speaker 2: her to get back to work. So I think she's

873
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:30,400
Speaker 2: going to find something that will use all that extra

874
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:35,720
Speaker 2: intellectual capacity that she's dying to put to some different purpose.

875
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:38,760
Speaker 2: And we can't wait to hear what that is all right, Sarah,

876
00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:40,040
Speaker 2: what is your love of the week.

877
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:43,560
Speaker 3: Well, the opening ceremonies of the Olympics are this week,

878
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:46,719
Speaker 3: so I am super excited to tune in. Feel like

879
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:49,399
Speaker 3: I have reached the promised land of ages of kids

880
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:51,640
Speaker 3: that will actually sit through watching some of these events

881
00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:54,240
Speaker 3: with me, and that's it's been a while. There's always

882
00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:55,960
Speaker 3: been like a two year old running around the last

883
00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:58,680
Speaker 3: few Olympics. So super super excited for that.

884
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:03,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, Kids who can sit still and watch that

885
00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:04,799
Speaker 2: is always a love of the week. Well, I'd say

886
00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:08,120
Speaker 2: the Olympics and Shark Week. We've been watching some of

887
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:11,480
Speaker 2: the Shark Week programming and it's always a little bit

888
00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:14,640
Speaker 2: over the top and funny, but you know, it's a

889
00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:18,160
Speaker 2: summer tradition at this point. It's a great way to

890
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:21,560
Speaker 2: spend a little bit of time in July, and most

891
00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:23,680
Speaker 2: years there aren't in Olympics in July. I'm sure we'll

892
00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:26,920
Speaker 2: watch less Shark programming that we've taped once the Olympics start,

893
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:30,400
Speaker 2: but for non Olympics July that can be great.

894
00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:31,839
Speaker 1: Well, this has been.

895
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:35,239
Speaker 2: Best of both worlds. We've been talking about rest, rethinking

896
00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:38,040
Speaker 2: what rest looks like and what it means and then

897
00:45:38,239 --> 00:45:42,640
Speaker 2: discussing a way the trade Off Manifesto that people who

898
00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:45,000
Speaker 2: feel they are not getting adequate rest can make sure

899
00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:47,560
Speaker 2: that they do get more rest, even if there are

900
00:45:47,719 --> 00:45:52,279
Speaker 2: young kids involved and who need constant supervision. Well, we

901
00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:54,640
Speaker 2: will be back next week with more on making work

902
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:55,720
Speaker 2: and life fit together.

903
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:00,560
Speaker 3: Thanks for listening. You can find me Sarah at the

904
00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:05,200
Speaker 3: shoebox dot com or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram,

905
00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:05,799
Speaker 3: and you.

906
00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:09,880
Speaker 2: Can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This

907
00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:13,279
Speaker 2: has been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please join

908
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:16,080
Speaker 2: us next time for more on making work and life

909
00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:16,880
Speaker 2: work together.