Speaker 1: Pushkin.
Speaker 2: We're excited to share an episode from another podcast today
Speaker 2: that I think you'll enjoy, The five hundred with Adam
Speaker 2: Myers on the five hundred. Adam counts down Rolling Stones
Speaker 2: list of the five hundred greatest albums of all time,
Speaker 2: joined by musicians, comedians, and actors for each episode. This
Speaker 2: episode spotlights the second and final studio album by rock
Speaker 2: supergroup Crosby, Stills and Nash, and their first as Crosby, Stills,
Speaker 2: Nash and Young. The album's tracks range from tender folk
Speaker 2: melodies to driving hard rock. Today, we'll hear an episode
Speaker 2: with guests Jeff Daniels, the acclaimed actor best known for
Speaker 2: films like Dumb and Dumber, The Squid in the Whale
Speaker 2: in terms of endearment. Jeff, who is also an accomplished
Speaker 2: singer songwriter, makes his debut on the five hundred to
Speaker 2: share how this iconic album influenced his own approach to music.
Speaker 2: Here's Adam Myers with Jeff Daniels on the five hundred.
Speaker 3: The five hundred from the five hundred, j and.
Speaker 4: Been walking us down through that twenty twelve edition, so
Speaker 4: it ain't nothing to you. Hundreds, water goo and in
Speaker 4: need of a friend, that king of this four Angelo
Speaker 4: talking the five hundred until he ends, talking the five
Speaker 4: hundred until.
Speaker 3: He ends with my man j is.
Speaker 4: On the five hundred, talking the five hundred until.
Speaker 3: The end is coming. It is coming to.
Speaker 1: So that is the opening track by Crosby Stills Nashing
Speaker 1: Young from their nineteen seventy record Deja Vu. It's also
Speaker 1: number one forty seven out of five hundred on the
Speaker 1: five hundred with Josh Adam Myers. What's up, Police Army.
Speaker 1: I am Josh. I'm a comic, and I'm going through
Speaker 1: Rolling Stone Magazines list of the five hundred greatest albums.
Speaker 1: We are chipping away right now. I am probably in Amsterdam,
Speaker 1: I'm not sure. Or I'm dead in Amsterdam, or maybe
Speaker 1: I didn't make it there. Maybe I got mugged in
Speaker 1: Paris or Brussels or wherever the fuck. I am making
Speaker 1: my way through Europe. I'm doing this, of course, ahead
Speaker 1: of time, so I don't have to bring any equipment.
Speaker 1: Hopefully I see you guys out there. If you live
Speaker 1: in another country in Europe, send me a message and
Speaker 1: I will come have lunch with you. I'm documenting the
Speaker 1: whole thing. We're gonna post it. On my YouTube YouTube
Speaker 1: dot com backslide josh Adamyers seventy nine subscribe, subscribe, subscribe
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Speaker 1: We love you, guys. Thank you for tuning in. Thank
Speaker 1: you for all the help. DJ Morty Coyle, Emily JT,
Speaker 1: Peter Adam. This is one of my favorite things to do,
Speaker 1: especially when you have a guest like today. When I
Speaker 1: get back the end of this month, August twenty ninth
Speaker 1: and the thirtieth, I will be at the Plano Mic
Speaker 1: Drop Comedy Club right outside of Dallas, Texas. Then I
Speaker 1: will be in Pittsburgh, Jacksonville, Saudi Arabia with Bill Burd
Speaker 1: doing a comedy festival. New Orleans, Vancouver, La Joya, Arizona, Wisconsin,
Speaker 1: I've got a bunch of gigs. I'm gonna be busy.
Speaker 1: I'll be in Canada a lot next year. We've already
Speaker 1: got Calgary booked, We've already got Winnipeg booked, Edmonton booked.
Speaker 1: Come one, Come on Josh Adammeiers dot com for tickets.
Speaker 1: It's gonna be a great year, guys. I'm excited to
Speaker 1: get back home. I'm assuming I'm loving this trip. But
Speaker 1: who knows, who knows? Maybe I'm dead, all right, Crosby Stills,
Speaker 1: csny Sison, sissony sisne deja vu. Well, this is our
Speaker 1: second record. We did the first one, We're doing the
Speaker 1: second one. I'm not gonna talk anymore. Let's get to
Speaker 1: our guest, a legend, a true actor, and an incredible musician.
Speaker 1: This is where the Emily Kagan meager comes into full effect.
Speaker 1: We got a code read booking the one, the only
Speaker 1: Jeff Daniels. I mean, come on, guys, the newsroom, one
Speaker 1: of the greatest speeches in television history. Arachnophobia, dumb and dumber,
Speaker 1: dumb and number two. I could keep going. This dude
Speaker 1: is so cool taking the time out to talk about
Speaker 1: this record. I love doing this podcast. When I get
Speaker 1: to sit down and talk to these dudes. What a gift.
Speaker 1: All right? Oh, go to his website and check out
Speaker 1: his music. By the way, He's got some incredible stuff
Speaker 1: and some upcoming tour dates in Michigan this month. Rate Review.
Speaker 1: Most importantly, subscribe to the five hundred. Listen free on
Speaker 1: all platforms or anywhere you get your pods. Follow me
Speaker 1: at josh Adam Myers on all social media. Follow the
Speaker 1: podcast at the five hundred Podcasts. Email the podcast at
Speaker 1: five hundred Podcasts at gmail dot com, Follow the Facebook
Speaker 1: group run by Creeazy Evan, and for all things five
Speaker 1: zero zero go to the website the five hundred podcast
Speaker 1: dot com. All right, y'all, here we go out of
Speaker 1: five hundred with Deja Vu by crowdsbit Steals, Nash, and Ya.
Speaker 1: I don't even know how to start because because Jeff,
Speaker 1: I'm such a huge fan of yours man that this
Speaker 1: is always This is why I do the podcast is
Speaker 1: being able to sit down with people that I love,
Speaker 1: so uh, thank you for coming on to talk about Crosby, Stills,
Speaker 1: Nash and Young and also to let you know, we
Speaker 1: had like five other big names that wanted to do
Speaker 1: this record and I told them all, pardon my language,
Speaker 1: to fuck off, like this is Jeff's record. He got it,
Speaker 1: divs Okay, I couldn't. I couldn't be happier, man, So
Speaker 1: what a.
Speaker 5: Pleasure to deliver. It was a long pressure.
Speaker 1: No pressure, don't worry. I'll cover a lot of the info.
Speaker 1: We just want to know your opinion, your love. We're
Speaker 1: going to talk about this. We're going to talk about
Speaker 1: some Crosby, Tails and Nash. But I guess you know,
Speaker 1: just to dive right into this, you know when and why?
Speaker 1: Au Let's say start there, why are you here for Cross?
Speaker 1: Out of all the records we probably offered you, why
Speaker 1: are you here for Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young Deja vu?
Speaker 5: H it uh? It was at a time in my life.
Speaker 5: I'm gonna say it was seventy one it was released.
Speaker 5: I was I was early in high school, and so
Speaker 5: my tastes and music were being formed. I had come
Speaker 5: out of the late sixties and I was, I mean,
Speaker 5: I can go back to here comes my Baby from
Speaker 5: the Turtles, Dave Clark five. You know I was. I
Speaker 5: wasn't very you know, my musical taste wasn't very interesting.
Speaker 5: Seeger came out with Rambling Gambling Man on that first album.
Speaker 5: Then Arlo Guthrie did Alice's Restaurant. Yeah, my attention just
Speaker 5: because of the acoustic work and the storytelling. And then
Speaker 5: Woodstock happened, and I remember being in the seventh grade
Speaker 5: and asking my dad if I could, you know, go
Speaker 5: to Woodstock with some high school friends who had a car.
Speaker 5: And that didn't get very far, but that was what
Speaker 5: was that about? And so I'm young and I'm looking
Speaker 5: at that. And this was before Elton John which eleven
Speaker 5: seventeen seventy really kind of catapulted me into okay, what
Speaker 5: was that? Yeah, but it was Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young.
Speaker 5: It was the acoustic work, and of course the harmonies
Speaker 5: and their stance. They were doing kind of what Dylan did,
Speaker 5: except with four part harmonies, what Phil Oakes did, Tom Paxton.
Speaker 5: They were taking some of that you know, political thing
Speaker 5: and kind of you know, maybe not so much with
Speaker 5: Deja Vu, but certainly with Four Way Street. They were
Speaker 5: a band that was going to say some things. And yeah,
Speaker 5: back to a young kid in high school, that got
Speaker 5: my attention.
Speaker 1: So you were already like innocence interested in what was
Speaker 1: going on in the world at a really young age.
Speaker 1: Was that your parents or because I mean I always
Speaker 1: remember my dad like reading the Washington Post and he
Speaker 1: would listen, he'd watch the nightly news. And we're from
Speaker 1: the DC area, by the way, but it was, you know,
Speaker 1: I vaguely remember Bush versus Ducoccus, literally only because there
Speaker 1: was a paper meme of a drawing of a vagina
Speaker 1: chasing a penis, and it was like Bush versus Ducaclus,
Speaker 1: another fucked up matter? Was it something stupid like that?
Speaker 1: And that was my to politics. So really, you were
Speaker 1: when you were like when you were younger, you were
Speaker 1: already interested in what was going on in the world.
Speaker 1: But I assume it's probably because a lot of you know, I.
Speaker 5: Was, and you know, I a small town in the Midwest,
Speaker 5: and I was I was. I grew up in a
Speaker 5: Republican household, a small business owner, farmer. My mom was
Speaker 5: a farmer, you know, worked on a farm, and we
Speaker 5: didn't talk about politics. I didn't even know it was
Speaker 5: a Republican household till I went to New York City
Speaker 5: and realized, oh, this is different from where I'm coming.
Speaker 5: I think Krosby still is a Nash kind of we're going, hey,
Speaker 5: come over here, yes, And and I wasn't. I didn't
Speaker 5: really go to the acoustic guitar myself until about seventy six,
Speaker 5: seventy seven. But Stills and Neil Young got my attention
Speaker 5: and and maybe fifteen or maybe twenty years later, twenty five,
Speaker 5: I a friend of mine got tickets to see them
Speaker 5: in Chicago at the United Center, and I had I
Speaker 5: never I didn't get Neil Young. You know, I loved Stills.
Speaker 5: I loved Stills, and I didn't know why. And then
Speaker 5: later on it was the musicianship and his you know,
Speaker 5: that whole Crossroads live thing he does. You know, someday
Speaker 5: I'm going to try to learn how to play that
Speaker 5: the way he does, and Treetop Flyer and all that.
Speaker 5: I was really taken with Stills, and but I didn't
Speaker 5: get Neil. And then when I saw him in Chicago
Speaker 5: and they played Almost Cut My Hair, which is on
Speaker 5: the Day Jubu album, and they turned it into like
Speaker 5: an eighteen minute thing, epic thing, and Neil, you know,
Speaker 5: with his black les Paul just that single note stuff
Speaker 5: that he was doing well Stills was, you know, but yeah,
Speaker 5: well it just pierced through the United Center and I going, Okay,
Speaker 5: I get Neil Young. Now, I get Neil Young. They
Speaker 5: were so different, you know, and they had egos and
Speaker 5: they hated each other to make album.
Speaker 1: Oh you're telling me after I've learned everything. I mean,
Speaker 1: we'll get all into that. But it's it's kind of fun,
Speaker 1: you know. Oh yeah. But here's here's something funny. Jared,
Speaker 1: you you might know some of this, but but Jeff,
Speaker 1: this is actually interesting. I have a connection to three
Speaker 1: out of four of the guys in this band. I've
Speaker 1: jammed with Steven Stills at my friend Told my friend
Speaker 1: told Wilkenfeld's house. She has a recording studio. The bass
Speaker 1: player play with Jeff Beck. Excuse me. I also played
Speaker 1: with Jackson Brown that night. Who else? Oh, Neil Young.
Speaker 1: It's not a connection, but from doing this podcast, we
Speaker 1: did one of his records and probably my favorite song
Speaker 1: that I found from Young, and I was much like
Speaker 1: you like I only really knew like Harvest Moon and
Speaker 1: a like Ohio and a few others.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 1: But when I heard Lookout Joe about Vietnam vets coming
Speaker 1: back to from Vietnam and seeing how the seventies has
Speaker 1: changed with hookers, and Drugs and Prostitutes and became probably
Speaker 1: my favorite song that I found from doing this podcast.
Speaker 1: I still listened to it multiple times a week. I
Speaker 1: love it and nothing with Graham Nash. But I was
Speaker 1: one of the people that Melissa Ethridge was gonna get
Speaker 1: sperm from. It was between me and David Crosby. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I was young, but she wanted a kid,
Speaker 1: and I said, all right, you know, I got good gene.
Speaker 5: Okay, But but.
Speaker 1: There's a thing about them is that, you know, we
Speaker 1: were lucky enough. This never happens on the podcast, by
Speaker 1: the way, where we do usually the first record first,
Speaker 1: you know, because a lot of the artists their first
Speaker 1: album is their best record, and so sometimes, like when
Speaker 1: I did Dylan, we did it backwards. We started with
Speaker 1: Time out of Mind and we've worked our way down.
Speaker 1: I think we did like Love and Theft and a
Speaker 1: few others. It wasn't until John Wesley Harding that I
Speaker 1: think I really got what people love about Dylan. And
Speaker 1: now I'm really becoming a fan because, as you know,
Speaker 1: as a Dylan fan, you need to start at the
Speaker 1: beginning and move your way towards the back because those
Speaker 1: seven eight minute songs about God and Death and the
Speaker 1: Devil that he did in the nineties and the two thousands.
Speaker 1: They're not the same. You gotta know the early shit.
Speaker 1: But what I love about this band, you know, is
Speaker 1: you have this first record of theirs and they get together.
Speaker 1: They're all in their respective bands. You know, I might
Speaker 1: fuck this up because I've got some of it written
Speaker 1: down and if you correct me, but I know we've
Speaker 1: done the Birds, so so David Crosby's in the Birds.
Speaker 1: You have Stephen Stills is in the Hollies. Or am
Speaker 1: I mixing it up with Graham Nash? No, Graham Nash
Speaker 1: is a Buffo Springfield. Yeah, Stills is the Hollies. Nash
Speaker 1: is Buffalo Springfield. Otherways Okay, well.
Speaker 5: I was close young, We're Buffalo.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yes. But this is the thing is that they
Speaker 1: get together. Let me pull up my little one sheet.
Speaker 1: They get together and they make this record. They make
Speaker 1: the record after they play Woodstock. So their first gig
Speaker 1: ever is Woodstock. Yeah, I mean can a's your question?
Speaker 1: What was what was the first performance you ever did?
Speaker 1: And were you scared shitless doing.
Speaker 5: It me personally with a guitar?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Oh yeah, not just good doing as an actor
Speaker 1: or anything like any your first performance. Was it a
Speaker 1: natural thing? I mean, obviously it probably wasn't the size
Speaker 1: of woodstock, but.
Speaker 5: No. Strangely, which is why I pursued it. I knew
Speaker 5: exactly what to do, you know, I being on stage
Speaker 5: and having six hundred people and I'm playing Fagan and Oliver.
Speaker 5: I knew exactly what to do, and I know how
Speaker 5: the joke. I knew how to sing the song. I
Speaker 5: knew how to do the staging. I knew how to
Speaker 5: hold an audience. It was all just natural ability that
Speaker 5: I had no idea why I knew it or anything.
Speaker 5: When I picked up the guitar and started, you know, gigging,
Speaker 5: which happened thirty years later. That was the terror to
Speaker 5: walk out and sit in a chair with just the acoustic,
Speaker 5: singing my own stuff, thinking that it's going to be
Speaker 5: just as easy as walking on a stage. As an actor,
Speaker 5: you know, you've got this character filter which protects you
Speaker 5: in a way. You just kind of do it. And
Speaker 5: you know, I never stage fright nerves, no, but walking
Speaker 5: out there and sitting down, the flop sweat just like
Speaker 5: dripping off me. I there was a nakedness to it
Speaker 5: that I wasn't prepared for and it took about thirty
Speaker 5: club dates to learn how to rise above it. And
Speaker 5: it was the same thing as like doing a talk show,
Speaker 5: you know, I mean I did I've been doing those forever.
Speaker 5: I did Carson twice, you know, oh God, and a
Speaker 5: lot of Lemo and Colbert and you name it. I
Speaker 5: did him Conan, and you know, it's how do I
Speaker 5: how do I do this in seven minutes? You're out
Speaker 5: there and everybody's You've gotta be funny, you gotta be
Speaker 5: what what? What? What am I? And there were early
Speaker 5: things with me with Letterman where I'm just a zero
Speaker 5: and and I finally figured out the character I have
Speaker 5: to play when I walk out there is me in
Speaker 5: a good mood.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5: That's your character, Jeff in a good mood. And I
Speaker 5: usually wear a fedora just because I love him. And
Speaker 5: once I put that on, it's like Joe Bonamasa, who's
Speaker 5: an incredible player.
Speaker 1: Guess with the podcast we've he's been on, been on
Speaker 1: a couple of times.
Speaker 5: Yeah, we love that, love him. He's Joe bonamassa backstage
Speaker 5: and then here comes the glasses, here comes the suit,
Speaker 5: and he says I become this other guy and it's
Speaker 5: a little bit like acting. So the same thing with
Speaker 5: the acoustic guitar in the chair. Now, any kind of
Speaker 5: trepidation about it, Remember you're in a good mood. Oh yeah,
Speaker 5: I'm in a good mood. Boom out I go, and
Speaker 5: then I'm on top of it.
Speaker 1: But also, and also, but also because I'm friends with,
Speaker 1: you know, very close with Bill Burr, and you know
Speaker 1: what he's explained going on those talk shows, especially someone
Speaker 1: like Conan. It's just like he's got you. Those guys
Speaker 1: got you, and their goal is that you can just
Speaker 1: they'll set you up and you set them up, and
Speaker 1: it's like it really is like a beautiful dance. And
Speaker 1: for someone who you know from acting and working with actors,
Speaker 1: and then also on top of that, you know, having
Speaker 1: the musical abilities and timing from acting and music, I
Speaker 1: mean you must I know you said you probably didn't
Speaker 1: feel like it, but dude, you know, you and Letterman together,
Speaker 1: you and Carson together, I mean it's a beautiful dance.
Speaker 1: And I mean none of us could tell that you
Speaker 1: were fucking nervous at all.
Speaker 5: No, it's the ability to tell stories, you know, on
Speaker 5: the fly. Yeah, you know. I mean, you don't have
Speaker 5: to suddenly bec Robin Williams are Marty Short and just
Speaker 5: kill like those guys do. Can you tell a good
Speaker 5: story that has you know, rhythm to it and you
Speaker 5: learn how to do that? And you know that comes
Speaker 5: with time and figuring out how to do it. But
Speaker 5: it's the same thing with the gigs. You know, is
Speaker 5: sitting down in that chair, is the story leading up
Speaker 5: to it, and then here comes the song. It's almost
Speaker 5: like a mini musical, except I'm doing the book and
Speaker 5: the and the music, and so you know, I've learned
Speaker 5: how to do it. I enjoy the challenge of that.
Speaker 5: But it was guys like Still's and Arlow and Neil
Speaker 5: Young and Steve Goodman later on Lyle Lovett, Christine Lavin,
Speaker 5: John Hyatt, Keb Mole, Stephan Grossman, the guys who picked
Speaker 5: up an acoustic guitar and could do it. Jason Isbel
Speaker 5: has the great album Foxes in the Snow. You know,
Speaker 5: just Jason with an acoustic in a studio in New
Speaker 5: York City. I I love that. I just that Crossy Stills,
Speaker 5: Nashing Young and Deja Vu was the trigger to send me,
Speaker 5: you know on my mate on my way toward an
Speaker 5: acoustic guitar, which I bought my first one in seventy
Speaker 5: six and have been playing one ever since.
Speaker 1: You still have that first one you bought, Yeah, I
Speaker 1: love that. Joe's try to Joe's try to buy it
Speaker 1: off you.
Speaker 5: I'm sure.
Speaker 1: He's listen, man, you we'll get rid.
Speaker 5: Of that thing.
Speaker 1: I'll pay top dollar.
Speaker 5: I don't love it, I am. I'm a Martin snob now,
Speaker 5: but it was a Guild D forty. That's the next
Speaker 5: too skinny, the body's too big. I played it for
Speaker 5: about three years. Then I saw a friend of mine
Speaker 5: playing Martin om and I'm just going, oh yeah.
Speaker 1: Dig so much when I was talking about this record
Speaker 1: and doing the first one where you have the three guys,
Speaker 1: you know, and then you were lucky enough that later.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's been almost over a year, I think,
Speaker 1: at least since we did that first record, and to
Speaker 1: really dig back into this and then find out the
Speaker 1: interesting story behind this, you know, for all the listeners
Speaker 1: and Jeff, I don't know how familiar you are with
Speaker 1: the backstory of this. But before we get into some
Speaker 1: of the tracks, you know, like I mentioned, they play
Speaker 1: their first gig at Woodstock. Then they come out with
Speaker 1: the first record. Neil, by the way, at this time
Speaker 1: is laying in the back. He actually played with them
Speaker 1: at Woodstock, but he is his own person. He's uncompromising.
Speaker 1: The first record comes out, it's this enormous hit. It's
Speaker 1: not it doesn't like drag. It doesn't take time to
Speaker 1: blow up. It blows up, and people are calling them
Speaker 1: a supergroup amongst with all the different singles, it almost
Speaker 1: defies explanation that they're going to be adding Neil Young
Speaker 1: to this band. It's already a perfect trio. It's like,
Speaker 1: how could it get much better? And by the time
Speaker 1: they get to this record, this album, basically when we
Speaker 1: were talking about for a moment and I mentioned it
Speaker 1: to you, Jared, why you'll find this intersuing as a
Speaker 1: Beatles fan. This is the white album. This is a
Speaker 1: fractured record. This is not a collaborative effort. There are
Speaker 1: them playing together and working on certain things for certain moments,
Speaker 1: but this is basically a member of the band. Excuse
Speaker 1: me saying I'm going to go to the studio. I'm
Speaker 1: going to do a song and if you want to
Speaker 1: come in, cool, but if not, I could give a
Speaker 1: shit I'm working on this alone. Some of these sessions,
Speaker 1: I think I saw somewhere that eight hundred hours. Yes,
Speaker 1: Steven Still's estimates the album took around eight hundred hours
Speaker 1: of studio time to record. Sometimes they'd be doing eighty
Speaker 1: takes of some of the songs before I've got any further.
Speaker 1: What's the most amount of takes you ever did in
Speaker 1: a scene and what was it for who.
Speaker 5: We were close to? I want to say seventy eight.
Speaker 5: On the Purple Rows of Cairo, the Woody Allen movie
Speaker 5: nineteen eighty seven, there was a wonner a one shot
Speaker 5: of a four page scene, and I'm sitting in a
Speaker 5: in a Ferris Ferris Merry go round, Yeah, which they
Speaker 5: had found somewhere in Brooklyn, and it was a real one.
Speaker 5: We were inside, and so it was all kind of
Speaker 5: built for us. Great terrific. So I'm sitting here with
Speaker 5: Mia Farrow and it's a love scene and the camera
Speaker 5: slowly pushes in, no cuts, no close ups, nothing, And
Speaker 5: at the end of the four page scene there's a kiss.
Speaker 5: That's it. Well, we're shooting. The problem is we're located
Speaker 5: about two miles from the JFK airport, so the flight
Speaker 5: pattern of the planes either taking off landing was just
Speaker 5: under four minutes, which was about the time it would
Speaker 5: take to do four pages a minute a page. So
Speaker 5: we would get to and you're doing the scene and
Speaker 5: the stammers coming in and we're on the last where
Speaker 5: now we're at three pages, top of fourth page. Here
Speaker 5: we come and you can hear the plane. You can
Speaker 5: hear the plane landing, and and you kind of speed
Speaker 5: it up to try to get to the kiss and
Speaker 5: then cut and they look at the sound guy. He goes, no,
Speaker 5: I heard the plane. I heard so what He just
Speaker 5: kept going and it was seventy eight takes and I
Speaker 5: don't think we ever got one that I know we
Speaker 5: didn't because then we go, well, let's go into editing.
Speaker 5: We'll see what we got. Because he didn't want to
Speaker 5: do close ups. Yes, he couldn't cut around a plane.
Speaker 5: So about four weeks later they built a Merry go
Speaker 5: round up in Harlem in a studio and we shot
Speaker 5: it like five takes. Oh there, wow.
Speaker 1: Was he wasn't like was he? I mean, he feels
Speaker 1: like a very particular person, you know, about what he wants,
Speaker 1: like in something like Purple Aza, Cairo or radio days.
Speaker 1: Was were they long shoots? Because I always feel like
Speaker 1: he was. He was very good with the budget that
Speaker 1: he got, because he's not getting a lot of money
Speaker 1: for his movies, or at least you know, you must
Speaker 1: say at the beginning. I mean, he is one of
Speaker 1: the best directors of all time. But still is it?
Speaker 1: Are his shoots long? Or what was the longest full shoot?
Speaker 1: Not seen? But just if they're doing eight hundred hours
Speaker 1: to do a record, what was the longest shoot you
Speaker 1: were ever on?
Speaker 5: Well? Would he? No? I mean, back back then, wood
Speaker 5: he we were usually finishing by five thirty, especially if
Speaker 5: the Knicks were playing at home.
Speaker 1: Sure, claireinet somewhere for the day.
Speaker 5: We'll come back, we'll go into the close ups tomorrow morning.
Speaker 5: Thanks everybody, and he's gone, you know, I mean, it
Speaker 5: was no, they were. They were very professional. You come
Speaker 5: in ready, He wants to see what you want to
Speaker 5: bring to All the great directors did Woody, Robert Altman,
Speaker 5: Mike Nichols, Jonathan Demi, Oh my god, on and on
Speaker 5: and on. They they don't come in and tell you
Speaker 5: what to do. They you know, Altman told me ninety
Speaker 5: percent of what I do is casting. Oh okay, go
Speaker 5: show me what it is? That right? Okay, good, let's
Speaker 5: move the camera. You know, sometimes you get nothing, and
Speaker 5: that's you know, come in and show them what you
Speaker 5: think it is. That's why they hired you. And Wood
Speaker 5: he was like that, you know, he said with the
Speaker 5: script too. He first day he goes, okay, well, you know,
Speaker 5: this isn't the Bible. So if you want to, you know,
Speaker 5: change your word here or there, just go ahead. You know,
Speaker 5: if I need you to say it the way I
Speaker 5: wrote it, I'll tell you, and you could you could
Speaker 5: loosen it up a little bit. And he was fine.
Speaker 5: He wanted it as natural as possible. And and you
Speaker 5: know that just makes you want to make what he
Speaker 5: wrote work all the time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So what was the longest shoot?
Speaker 1: Not seeing but just longest project the way they talk
Speaker 1: about Eyes Wide Shut being almost like almost two years.
Speaker 1: And that's Kubrick, who, of course is very particular. And
Speaker 1: you know, of course I must have been interesting working
Speaker 1: with with a married couple with Tom Cruise and Nicole.
Speaker 1: But I mean, you've been in so many different projects.
Speaker 1: What was the longest from from the day you showed
Speaker 1: up to the day left?
Speaker 5: You know, I know, I don't. I mean the television
Speaker 5: series like news Room. Sure, yeah, yeah, obviously seven months,
Speaker 5: but you're shooting nine ten episodes. Yeah, movies. No, I
Speaker 5: was never on one of those were five months over
Speaker 5: and we're stuck in Romania.
Speaker 1: I was on that.
Speaker 5: I you know, I did. I did a twenty eight
Speaker 5: hour day once.
Speaker 1: What was that on that the me in the late
Speaker 1: eighties called The Crossing George Washington.
Speaker 5: And it's one of those for your lot, you got
Speaker 5: the location, you got to get it. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 5: we tried to get it and and for whatever reason,
Speaker 5: now it was a day shoot that turned into a
Speaker 5: night shoot that turns into dawn and now they're putting
Speaker 5: blacks over the windows because it's eight thirty in the
Speaker 5: morning and it's got to be night, you know. And
Speaker 5: you you don't know your name? You don't my John Adams?
Speaker 1: Who am I? No, you're John Quincy Adams. Oh, George Washington.
Speaker 1: I had no idea who I was. Wouldn't teeth, no
Speaker 1: wooden teeth. They Oh that's a bummer.
Speaker 5: I'm in the makeup chair.
Speaker 1: Dig it. All right, let's keep going on with this.
Speaker 5: All right.
Speaker 1: So, like I was saying before, this is the white album.
Speaker 1: They're doing all these takes. They hear Neil Young do
Speaker 1: the song Helpless, and the band flips out and they
Speaker 1: know how special this guy is. They say, I.
Speaker 5: Think, I think if I read this somewhere, he said, great,
Speaker 5: we've got the basic tracks. I'm going to take the
Speaker 5: tapes and go home and mix it myself.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, it's it's basically they they I'm skipping ahead
Speaker 1: to what I have, the notes that I have for this,
Speaker 1: but it's basically when he played it for them, they're
Speaker 1: so blown away. I mean that's when they're just like,
Speaker 1: we're not worthy, Like they understand that this guy has
Speaker 1: a gift, and they say, no, we're not touching this,
Speaker 1: like this is this is a perfect thing. And it's
Speaker 1: also like, you know, the song is so in a
Speaker 1: sense autobiographical to him because of what he had been
Speaker 1: through in the fifties where he's diagnosed with polio and
Speaker 1: he's basically never been the same. It's one of the
Speaker 1: only songs on the record that everybody plays on. So
Speaker 1: it's it's very interesting too, which we'll come back to
Speaker 1: because I had a good question for that one. But
Speaker 1: give you a look. We're giving everybody a little taste,
Speaker 1: we're going back. We're doing a Christopher Nolan right now.
Speaker 1: So the record company h is all on board of
Speaker 1: having Neil Young. He says I'll join, but since he's uncompromising,
Speaker 1: he's like, I'm in la, I'll do a song. But
Speaker 1: also he will walk away if he isn't feeling the
Speaker 1: vibe that they're giving. So this record is each member
Speaker 1: doing their own songs. And if you see the first
Speaker 1: four tracks are all individual, right, the same person wrote it,
Speaker 1: that's sang on it. Maybe they do some harmonies, but
Speaker 1: if not needed it doesn't work, they don't use it.
Speaker 1: This is not a group project. The songs except for Woodstock,
Speaker 1: Almost Cut My Hair and Helpless were recorded as individual
Speaker 1: session but each member, with each contributing whatever was needed
Speaker 1: and agreed upon. Young appears on only half the tracks,
Speaker 1: with Nash stating he generally recorded his tracks alone in
Speaker 1: Los Angeles and then brought them back to the recording
Speaker 1: studio to put our voices on and took it away
Speaker 1: to mix it.
Speaker 5: Do you think that, because you know, because I've heard
Speaker 5: we came together as a group and then we added Neil,
Speaker 5: but we were always going to go off and do
Speaker 5: our own things. This was never going to do. Yeah,
Speaker 5: can we stay together? This was gonna be we're doing
Speaker 5: this and then we're all gonna go off and solo.
Speaker 5: Maybe we'll come back, you know. But so if Still's
Speaker 5: writes the song on Deja Vu is Still's the boss
Speaker 5: in the uh.
Speaker 1: From the from the understanding that I got from my
Speaker 1: writer DJ Morty Coyle shout out to him. It's it's
Speaker 1: basically this is this is the White album. This is
Speaker 1: John Lennon, this is this is Ringo. Everybody bringing a
Speaker 1: track saying I'm recording and I'm doing this and you
Speaker 1: can add what you can. But there's a little bit
Speaker 1: more collaborative on the White album because the band still
Speaker 1: plays on it. Dude, If you look at the album
Speaker 1: cover for this in big letters, Crosby, Stills, Nash and
Speaker 1: Young and then the bassist who they're all labeled like.
Speaker 1: The bassist Jerry Reeves is written on their very small
Speaker 1: and Dallas Taylor's on there very small. But this is
Speaker 1: this is a singular it's basically everybody bringing their vibe
Speaker 1: and them coming together and them cutting this into a
Speaker 1: record together. It's really interesting. Whereas compared to the first record,
Speaker 1: it was more of a group thing, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. I mean, everybody probably bought more ideas to
Speaker 1: my understanding. But but this is this is really cool.
Speaker 1: And then this is really why I'm so happy to
Speaker 1: have you on for this because you know, with the
Speaker 1: way that Crosby, Stills, Nashing, Young, especially after this, has
Speaker 1: done so much on the spectrum or a cross inspectionum
Speaker 1: with their individual careers, I see the connection to your
Speaker 1: career because similarly, like you know, the way they see
Speaker 1: they're like, wow, like David Crosby did this, and Wow,
Speaker 1: Stephen Stills did this. You have a very very similar
Speaker 1: career with all the different things. You know, not only
Speaker 1: now with the with the music, but the acting and
Speaker 1: working with James L. Brooks, working with Sorkin, working with
Speaker 1: the Farley Brothers, like You've worked on so many projects
Speaker 1: with so many incredible people and playing these iconic characters.
Speaker 1: But just like Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young who are
Speaker 1: blending four powerful voices, does that remind you of any
Speaker 1: ensemble that you've worked on where every personality in a
Speaker 1: sense had to fight for space but just to still
Speaker 1: make it sing.
Speaker 5: You go in whether to play or a movie, TV,
Speaker 5: you go in wanting it to be a great collaboration
Speaker 5: where it's a blend and maybe different from music. You know,
Speaker 5: who gets the solo here. I don't like what you
Speaker 5: did there. I mean that doesn't happen on a set.
Speaker 5: You don't do a scene and then you know, say
Speaker 5: to Meryl Street, Meryl, you want another one. You know,
Speaker 5: it's more of a of a chemistry thing. You're seeking that,
Speaker 5: at least I am. You're seeking that going in. Whether
Speaker 5: it's with Jim Carrey on Dumb and Dumber, you're just
Speaker 5: trying to bounce. You're planning to play tennis verbal tennis
Speaker 5: with whether it's Jim on that movie or Meryl and
Speaker 5: Heartburn or anybody else. In anything, it's all about plugging
Speaker 5: in and trading licks on the same song, which is
Speaker 5: the scene you're doing. And you can't do it by
Speaker 5: yourself because there are two people in the scene and
Speaker 5: one person wants one thing and you something else, and
Speaker 5: that's that's why you have that scene drama. So it's
Speaker 5: a it's a little different. I haven't run into a
Speaker 5: lot of people who are you know, could you just
Speaker 5: stand a little closer to my close up? You know? Yeah,
Speaker 5: I haven't I haven't run into that too much. I
Speaker 5: worked with people who didn't tolerate that, who were far
Speaker 5: bigger than I was, And I learned early on that
Speaker 5: it was more about making the people that are with
Speaker 5: you as good as possible, and what.
Speaker 1: Act to go off of that, what actor that you've
Speaker 1: worked with? You probably early on? Do you think you
Speaker 1: learned the most from Meryl?
Speaker 5: Yeah, a couple of things with Meryl heartburn and then
Speaker 5: what was the other one? Oh, it was over of
Speaker 5: the hours, and she just plugs in. She's so moment
Speaker 5: to moment, she's so prepared, she's so professional, but she's
Speaker 5: listening to you, and she's whatever you're giving or she's using.
Speaker 5: And so that whole thing of you know, acting in
Speaker 5: front of a mirror, uh huh uh huh. And and man,
Speaker 5: when you plug into Meryl Streep, I could imagine suddenly
Speaker 5: it's like it's it's it's the chemistry that everybody, that
Speaker 5: magical thing chemistry, and I you know, and I think
Speaker 5: Still's and again going back to the Chicago concert, I saw,
Speaker 5: you know, Still's and Young we're playing off of each other.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, we're going to talk about that.
Speaker 5: Ego and all of that but man, they learned how
Speaker 5: to do that with ye and that's a lot of
Speaker 5: what what a what a good scene with a couple
Speaker 5: of actors who are listening, uh do, And so in
Speaker 5: that sense it was similar.
Speaker 1: Well, and I want to I want to go right
Speaker 1: into what you just said, because that takes us into
Speaker 1: the first track, which is carry On, which is a
Speaker 1: Stephen Still song. I love that you said that about
Speaker 1: playing off one another because one of the reasons Steven
Speaker 1: Stills it's such an credible guitar player. And then to
Speaker 1: have someone like Neil Young who also is it's kind
Speaker 1: of like as a comedian, you know, when you hang
Speaker 1: out with a group of comics that are funnier than you,
Speaker 1: because it makes you better, Like you want if you're
Speaker 1: the funniest guy in your group, you know the guy
Speaker 1: started with you know, Gerrod Carmichael Angelo Bowers, who unfortunately
Speaker 1: is not with us anymore, but two of the most
Speaker 1: brilliant comics I've ever met, which took my game up.
Speaker 1: And even now spending time with Burr and Big Jay Oakerson,
Speaker 1: I mean, and being here in New York, it's just
Speaker 1: it ups your game and I could see why someone
Speaker 1: is talented as Steven Stills would want to have someone
Speaker 1: like Neil Young in the band because it's going to
Speaker 1: make him a better player, and I feel maybe not
Speaker 1: so much. You know, this is where carry On isn't
Speaker 1: the you know, the guitar song on the record, but
Speaker 1: it's it's it is the first track, and it does
Speaker 1: have one of Steven Still's you know, because at the
Speaker 1: time everybody was doing this open tuning, like alt tuning
Speaker 1: of their songs, and Steven Stills ends up putting this together.
Speaker 1: Neil Young, though, isn't on it. You have Steven Still's leave.
Speaker 1: He does basically everything lead vocals, harmony, acoustic electric organ, bass, guitar, percussion.
Speaker 1: David Crosby brought in to do the harmony, so is
Speaker 1: Graham Nash. I think this is the perfect song on
Speaker 1: the record to open the album with. I don't think
Speaker 1: any other song would draw you in the way that
Speaker 1: Carrie On does. Your thoughts on it, I agree, I
Speaker 1: agree it grabs you immediately. It's this is like I
Speaker 1: put this onto the gym and I was like, I mean,
Speaker 1: it's still kind of pumped me up. It's just it's
Speaker 1: there's this is the real moment. Because of course like
Speaker 1: Sweet Judy Blue Eyes. If I fuck it up, Sweet
Speaker 1: Judy Blue Eyes. That's the main that was the big
Speaker 1: one off the first record, Yeah, which is one of
Speaker 1: the greatest songs ever written. This is arguably probably my
Speaker 1: favorite Crosby Stills Nashing Young song. I feel like it's
Speaker 1: it's just everything about it I love, you know, and
Speaker 1: then also finding out about kind of what's going on,
Speaker 1: which we're going to talk about later as well, which
Speaker 1: is like, you know, Graham and Joni are dating, but
Speaker 1: they're breaking up, David loses his girlfriend, Neil Young is
Speaker 1: just tough to work with. I mean, these are these
Speaker 1: are real issues. So this song, I feel carries a
Speaker 1: much deeper feeling and meaning behind it. And we've talked about,
Speaker 1: like I said, the career you know, and carry on
Speaker 1: is a way, you know. We're halfway through the recording
Speaker 1: they realized they needed this song, and in a way,
Speaker 1: it's almost like advice to the band. We were talking
Speaker 1: about your career at the beginning, and we said, you've
Speaker 1: done so much. Was there a point in your career
Speaker 1: where you've done so much? But you hit a point
Speaker 1: and you said, what else do I have to accomplish? Well,
Speaker 1: I guess I just have to carry on.
Speaker 5: Oh I'm there now. And the carry on part is
Speaker 5: the really really really carry no, you know, I think
Speaker 5: that back to the song I think if you if
Speaker 5: you liked their first album, Yeah, we need something that
Speaker 5: reminds you of that first album and carry On is
Speaker 5: that song.
Speaker 1: Sure, it's that.
Speaker 5: You know, we're not going to go completely different until
Speaker 5: later when we bring Neil in, but here's something that
Speaker 5: you know is harkens back to that first album that
Speaker 5: you loved so much, and then we'll go on from there.
Speaker 5: That's what carry On feels like a good kind of
Speaker 5: you know, for those who like the first album, this
Speaker 5: is you're gonna like this first song.
Speaker 1: That's what it feels like. It really does, it really does. Wow,
Speaker 1: you feel like Sarah, you done, You're not going to
Speaker 1: act anymore? Or like are you just is it?
Speaker 5: No? You know, it's it's a kind of you know,
Speaker 5: call me if you need me, yeah, versus chasing fifty
Speaker 5: years of person suing. Yeah, you know, I've definitely you know,
Speaker 5: once I did to Kill a Mockingbird on Broadway, which
Speaker 5: I did for a year, I came out of that
Speaker 5: and I could be done. Yeah, I felt like I
Speaker 5: had accomplished whatever it was I was going to accomplish.
Speaker 5: Looking back, yeah, I did it. Now other things have
Speaker 5: come along, I've done them, but now it's it's more
Speaker 5: about challenging yourself as an artist. And you know, I'm
Speaker 5: being focused on some other things. I have a theater
Speaker 5: in Michigan. The music I'm really enjoying, you know. I
Speaker 5: can play clubs or you know, five hundred seaters all
Speaker 5: over the country and sell out, you know, so you know,
Speaker 5: that's that's as interesting to me now, if not more
Speaker 5: so than eight times a week on Broadway or you know,
Speaker 5: another night Shoe in Louisiana. You know, So we'll see.
Speaker 5: I mean, it's not to say there are a couple
Speaker 5: of things that are out there that are you know,
Speaker 5: possibility of happening that I want to do, yeah, because
Speaker 5: I haven't done them yet. I haven't played that kind
Speaker 5: of character yet. And if it comes through, which I
Speaker 5: hope it does, great, but well, just going yeah, call
Speaker 5: me if everybody wants me.
Speaker 1: You know, is there who's the director that if they
Speaker 1: called you? I don't know if you want to answer this,
Speaker 1: but who's the director that if they called you? You
Speaker 1: you would in a second, be like, yeah, I'm there.
Speaker 5: Scott Frank really Scot, who do did? He direct? Wrote
Speaker 5: and directed Godless and which we did on Netflix, a
Speaker 5: big Western and I want an Emmy for that thanks
Speaker 5: to Scott. He just didn't Department Q on Netflix. He
Speaker 5: did Queen's Gambit. He's really a good writer director and
Speaker 5: uh yeah, if he were to, you know, I'd go
Speaker 5: with him. You know, if he emailed me go I
Speaker 5: got something for you, I'll go. What time do you
Speaker 5: want me there?
Speaker 1: Tomorrow? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm sorry. I'm playing a
Speaker 1: gig though in Tulsa. It's a four hundred seater.
Speaker 5: If you cancel, you say we're canceling it.
Speaker 1: Dig it all right, let's move on to teach your children.
Speaker 1: Probably you know, one of the I'd say why, probably
Speaker 1: the biggest long lasting song. I feel like that might
Speaker 1: have come off of this very interesting story behind it.
Speaker 1: So this is a Graham Nash song. He wrote this
Speaker 1: while he was still in the Hollies in sixty eight,
Speaker 1: but he wrote it very much at first like a
Speaker 1: Henry the Eighth by Herman's Hermit, so not the country version.
Speaker 1: It was still the one that told him to change
Speaker 1: it to make it have more of a country song.
Speaker 1: Graham saw his I saw this photo of a toy
Speaker 1: hand grenade in Central Park by a famous photographer that
Speaker 1: I forgot the writer name down, don't know if you know.
Speaker 1: And there's a moment where he thinks you can either
Speaker 1: teach your child to be good or bad. And also
Speaker 1: a little side note, Jerry Garcia from The Grateful Dead
Speaker 1: plays slide guitar on this little factoid. Are you a
Speaker 1: Dead fan?
Speaker 5: No? No, And it's not a judgment at all. I
Speaker 5: just never hooked into him and no, no, no, John
Speaker 5: to uh Bruce Springsteen in the late seventies and never
Speaker 5: looked back.
Speaker 1: Yeah, dude, there's are two guys that there are two
Speaker 1: guys that are awesome to follow. But I was. I
Speaker 1: fought The Grateful Dead for years and then from doing
Speaker 1: the podcast, man having we had you know, Senator Al Franken.
Speaker 1: Remember he's a guy. He's the reason I'm still doing
Speaker 1: the podcast. I was gonna quit and he goes, you
Speaker 1: can't quit. You're halfway through, man, this is groovy, And
Speaker 1: then his excitement it rubbed off and they all told
Speaker 1: me listen to the live shit. The albums are good.
Speaker 1: Listen to live shit, I started doing that and now
Speaker 1: I love him. But here but let me get to
Speaker 1: the question. Well, actually, before I get to the question,
Speaker 1: you tell me your thoughts on teach your children, because
Speaker 1: the message everything it's it really is, you know, being
Speaker 1: somebody that's a father. I mean, does this song hit
Speaker 1: home in a different way or is it just always
Speaker 1: been something that you loved and felt connected to?
Speaker 5: It was okay, you know, I mean, I wasn't Mash again,
Speaker 5: Nash wasn't the guy that pulled me in House is
Speaker 5: a nice song, you know, that's nice, teacher children nice,
Speaker 5: that's you know, sure, yeah, but what still's doing? Yeah? Yeah,
Speaker 5: I remember Nash saying somewhere that when they brought Neil in,
Speaker 5: he gave us an edge, you know, and he probably
Speaker 5: gave Graham an edge because you know, the songs Graham
Speaker 5: was writing, except for Military Madness, which was pretty on point.
Speaker 5: I don't know who wrote Ohio, but you know, Neil
Speaker 5: gave them an edge and really an edge sometimes. But yeah,
Speaker 5: there's some of the softer stuff is very nice. You know,
Speaker 5: the harmony is terrific. That's wonderful. But you know, I'm
Speaker 5: I'm kind of where are still songs totally.
Speaker 1: This isn't my favorite, but like I said, it's definitely
Speaker 1: the one that I knew immediately when this came on.
Speaker 1: But but to take it to the meat and potatoes
Speaker 1: of the song though, uh, more than ever now we're
Speaker 1: we're seeing a world where parents have the option to
Speaker 1: teach their children that grew up in the with a
Speaker 1: with hippie parents and they teach their children to be
Speaker 1: empathetic or you have these these these new I don't
Speaker 1: call the new parents, but that are that are tough
Speaker 1: and they're teaching their their kids, you know, not to
Speaker 1: care about uh their neighbor.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 1: Children are the seeds of the parents that plant them. Basically,
Speaker 1: to use a lyric from one of the songs that's
Speaker 1: going to be coming out later, do you think we
Speaker 1: ever can get back to the garden where we can
Speaker 1: you know, get back to people that are open to
Speaker 1: the other.
Speaker 5: I hope. So, yeah, I hope. So, I mean I
Speaker 5: think that's you know, the hope. Basically, I don't know
Speaker 5: how or when. Right now, it doesn't look possible. Everybody's divided.
Speaker 5: You know, the people in power are basically doing what
Speaker 5: they want, and you know who's going to stop them.
Speaker 5: So I hope. So I've always felt that, you know,
Speaker 5: I go back to Reagan and uh tip O'Neil, Obama
Speaker 5: and John Bayner. You know, they got in a room
Speaker 5: and they came together on a deal or they figured
Speaker 5: something out. And you don't get everything you want. You
Speaker 5: get you get as much of what you want as possible,
Speaker 5: and you're serving something bigger than yourself. And until we
Speaker 5: can get back to that, I don't see it. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 5: I think. I think it's going to come down to
Speaker 5: the people in the country who either like what's going
Speaker 5: on you know, a year, two years from now, three
Speaker 5: four years from now, or they don't you know, if
Speaker 5: we still have elections. I hope we do. I hope.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, definitely. It definitely feels like once, you know,
Speaker 1: two thousand, well really twenty fourteen fifteen, when when when
Speaker 1: that you know, that entity came into our political stratosphere,
Speaker 1: it felt like the you know, the puppets out of
Speaker 1: the box, and it's like it's just it's just how
Speaker 1: do you get that thing back in there once you've
Speaker 1: cranked it up and it's popped out. It's like, you know,
Speaker 1: I feel like people are only going to be leading
Speaker 1: that way because on that side, and it's I do
Speaker 1: think listen, I do think they're there, that you still
Speaker 1: have good people in this world. But I completely agree
Speaker 1: with you. So what do you so then how can
Speaker 1: you as a father?
Speaker 5: And I think I think, oh, I just I just
Speaker 5: think people will will get back there. We'll get back
Speaker 5: to that at some point. It's it's not this is
Speaker 5: not new. What's going on now? Maybe it seems like
Speaker 5: you know, and and in a lot of ways, it
Speaker 5: is more aggressive towards something that that eliminates people or
Speaker 5: discards people, you know, you know, and kind of tramples
Speaker 5: on what we thought what democracy was. But it's you know,
Speaker 5: there have been politicians forever that have gotten into office
Speaker 5: and done things and somebody had to wear the guardrails
Speaker 5: and wear the checks and balances and all that stuff.
Speaker 5: So we'll see, we'll see. I mean, it's it's it's
Speaker 5: up to the people. If the people want this, then
Speaker 5: it will stay. If if in a few years they don't,
Speaker 5: then uh, maybe they'll go to the election elections and
Speaker 5: vote for something else. We'll see, But it's not up
Speaker 5: to an actor to side I know that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what well, what when when you were becoming a
Speaker 1: new father. What was something that your father or mother
Speaker 1: taught you that you passed along to your children.
Speaker 5: Well, invest in yourself, which I've done, for better or worse.
Speaker 5: You know, as an actor, you choose projects that that
Speaker 5: you want to do. Yeah, I've kind of done that,
Speaker 5: picking up the guitar, writing plays, doing a theater company. Yeah,
Speaker 5: that's me investing in me and whatever talent I have,
Speaker 5: just trying to see how far he can take it. Yeah. That,
Speaker 5: but yeah, my my parents were man, treat everybody the same. Yeah,
Speaker 5: he really was. My dad was was if I ever
Speaker 5: see you treating one of the kids in town who
Speaker 5: doesn't have a lot of money poorly, He didn't have
Speaker 5: to finish the sentence.
Speaker 1: Good man, what a good man? Oh Man.
Speaker 5: He was a company and in a small town was
Speaker 5: one of the successful business owners. He was the mayor
Speaker 5: for a while, he ran the school. You know. He
Speaker 5: was like Atticus Finch in this little town. Yeah. But man,
Speaker 5: he would some guy who is barely making it with family,
Speaker 5: and he'd come into a lumberyard and Dad knew and
Speaker 5: the guy was having trouble paying the bills, and he
Speaker 5: would say, come on up to my office, and he
Speaker 5: would sit with him for half an hour and he
Speaker 5: would tell the guy at the end of it, you know,
Speaker 5: don't worry about it, you know, will you pay me
Speaker 5: when you can, all right? And it was just private.
Speaker 5: He didn't do it for show. It was just private.
Speaker 5: He took care of people who were had less than
Speaker 5: he did, and that was just he would tell us that,
Speaker 5: but then he would show us that by example. And
Speaker 5: you know, I've tried to do that. Wow. I love
Speaker 5: that You're on a set with an actor and it's
Speaker 5: their first show. Yeah yeah, yeah, you know, and you
Speaker 5: and you I've done you know, decades of what I've done.
Speaker 5: And you can tell that he's nervous. And so you
Speaker 5: sit with him and you talk to him about the scene,
Speaker 5: or you talk to him about well, yeah, what you're doing, yeah,
Speaker 5: where you're staying yeah, oh yeah, yeah, you just you
Speaker 5: kind of you know, yeah, you want him to be good.
Speaker 5: This isn't about you know, just say your line so
Speaker 5: we can put the camera on me. It's the opposite
Speaker 5: of that, and that that comes from my dad.
Speaker 1: And that's why you work, and that's why you've had
Speaker 1: a fifty year career because you do that and your
Speaker 1: dad taught you. That's incredible. That really is incredible, man.
Speaker 5: Yeah, unless you're an asshole then I'll kill you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's the laugh.
Speaker 5: Seen stars do that to people who were being divas.
Speaker 5: Oh my god. So I have that in my back pocket,
Speaker 5: but I rarely have to use it. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I love that though. I love that, and that comedy
Speaker 1: is what's gonna lead into the next question. So I'm
Speaker 1: very excited about this next one. This is for me
Speaker 1: and people in my generation. But first let's talk about
Speaker 1: the song almost Cut your Hair, Cut my hair. I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: This is a David Crosby song, first song on the
Speaker 1: record that Neil and bass player Greg Reeves are on.
Speaker 1: This is David's thing, man, it's kind of goofy uh.
Speaker 1: This is he's gonna let his freak flag fly. Hippies
Speaker 1: find themselves at a point where they're like, do I
Speaker 1: cut my hair today and just enjoin the machine? You know,
Speaker 1: as you know about David Crosby, he was a rich
Speaker 1: kid in Hollywood and he took that line about the
Speaker 1: freak flag from Jimmy Hendrix before I asked you the
Speaker 1: question thoughts on almost cut My Hair? The song David,
Speaker 1: I know you're a Stills guy. Yeah, gotta love.
Speaker 5: The Warriors were coming out of Woodstock, you know, and
Speaker 5: maybe that album had been released for all of us
Speaker 5: who didn't get to go, and you could tell there
Speaker 5: was whether it was the end of the sixties, which
Speaker 5: it was the end of something, or whether it was
Speaker 5: this kind of we're different, this generation is different. It
Speaker 5: led to the Who, it led to Zeppelin, it led
Speaker 5: to Crosby, Stills, Nashly Young, others of importance, you know,
Speaker 5: the Eagles, Jackson Brown. I'm guessing now, but it was
Speaker 5: a turning point. And for them to come out with
Speaker 5: almost cut my hair, it hearkens back to you know
Speaker 5: when when you grew your hair and you you you know,
Speaker 5: they made fun of you. You know Bob Seeker in
Speaker 5: that song, you know, Main turn the page. You know,
Speaker 5: he has a lyric about you know, they make fun
Speaker 5: of his hairs. Is that girl or is that a boy?
Speaker 5: And here's Crosby and Still's Nash and Young going keep
Speaker 5: the hair long. You know. It may be a couple
Speaker 5: of years after Woodstock and we're going into the seventies,
Speaker 5: but you know, don't lose the ideals, don't lose the
Speaker 5: principles that we were fighting for when we weren't stoned
Speaker 5: out of our minds.
Speaker 1: You know, yeah, yeah, So you know, I kind.
Speaker 5: Of look at it as you know, it wasn't a fad,
Speaker 5: It wasn't something that we just went through and now
Speaker 5: we're over it. We're all going to go corporate. It's
Speaker 5: hang on to that. That's the message I get. It's
Speaker 5: so on the nose, and I think read somewhere they
Speaker 5: almost didn't put it on the album, but then you've
Speaker 5: got Stills in Young going back and forth on it
Speaker 5: even on the album and certainly live. That makes the
Speaker 5: song just elevates the song.
Speaker 1: I want to I want to focus on, uh, let
Speaker 1: your feet. I came and say, it's so hard to
Speaker 1: let your freak flag fly. That is hard for me
Speaker 1: to get out right now. So you've done You've done
Speaker 1: so much, uh with with with with drama, theater and
Speaker 1: and just being such an accomplished actor. But you were
Speaker 1: cast in one of the most successful comedies of all
Speaker 1: time and arguably one of my favorites by two of
Speaker 1: my favorite directors. What is that like walking in there
Speaker 1: having to and I don't want to call it prove yourself,
Speaker 1: but working with someone like Jim Carrey, who at that
Speaker 1: time was the biggest comedic actor, and not saying you
Speaker 1: hadn't been in comedies, but playing Harry, you know, versus Lloyd.
Speaker 1: It's just like, are people trying to talk you out
Speaker 1: of this? Or are you fighting for this part? Like
Speaker 1: how do you let your freak flag fly? In a
Speaker 1: Farley Brothers movie with Jim Carrey, it was.
Speaker 5: It was a fly flying moment, that's for sure. Because, Yeah,
Speaker 5: the career was slowing down. I wasn't doing things that
Speaker 5: were interesting to me. I was a supporting actor in
Speaker 5: dramas and it was okay. But I knew I could
Speaker 5: do comedy. I had done musicals, and I knew how
Speaker 5: to time. I could be in front of six hundred people,
Speaker 5: and I knew how to land the joke. I knew
Speaker 5: how to set it up. I knew, I mean, you
Speaker 5: either have that ability or you don't. And I never
Speaker 5: did stand up, but I did do comedies in theater,
Speaker 5: and so I knew I had that and I hadn't
Speaker 5: yet done it on film, and so I went out
Speaker 5: to LA because I had done a couple of independent
Speaker 5: movies in the early nineties late eighties that nobody saw,
Speaker 5: and I told my agent, I got to be in
Speaker 5: something that people actually see. So I went out an
Speaker 5: audition for five movies and I got called back on
Speaker 5: three of them. Two one of them was Dumb and Dumber, okay,
Speaker 5: and that was the one. I wanted it, and I
Speaker 5: went and met with the Fairly brothers and then they
Speaker 5: wanted me, and then I had to come in again
Speaker 5: and read with Jim and the Faarilies, and you know,
Speaker 5: I found out later they had been through fifty actors,
Speaker 5: really names names, friend, Jim calling friends of his going
Speaker 5: come on man, okay, but you know ten million, No,
Speaker 5: they it's a smaller you know, they wanted too much
Speaker 5: money because and it was also Jim. At the time,
Speaker 5: all he was was ace Ventura. Yes it's true he
Speaker 5: had shot Masks, but it wasn't out yet. This is April,
Speaker 5: and we're going to start shooting Dumb and Dumber the
Speaker 5: end of April. And in the middle of shooting, he
Speaker 5: flew to can on a weekend and Mask premiered and
Speaker 5: it became huge instant and then later when they released
Speaker 5: it in the fall or winter, that's when Jim became
Speaker 5: you know, capital letters. But at the time, you know,
Speaker 5: he was he really wanted an actor. He was pursuing,
Speaker 5: you know, name actors for it, and they just kept
Speaker 5: turning it down. I mean, because you read it and
Speaker 5: you're going, okay, well, twelve year old boys are going
Speaker 5: to think this is their Citizen Kane. But you know,
Speaker 5: the movie going public, and do you really want to
Speaker 5: get in a scene with Ace Ventura because Jim is
Speaker 5: you know, I mean when Jess turns it up, you know,
Speaker 5: as Chris Guests used to say, you started eleven so
Speaker 5: but but I wanted that. I wanted to work with
Speaker 5: someone what I considered to be a comedic genius. And
Speaker 5: I and I learned quickly to let him lead. You
Speaker 5: want Jim to lead anyway. And and Jim, on the
Speaker 5: on the other hand, was going, I need someone who's
Speaker 5: gonna make me listen. I don't want to do my
Speaker 5: solo thing where I just you know, take over a
Speaker 5: human tornado and everyone's yeah, I really want to, you know,
Speaker 5: make it. It's a buddy buddy movie. I've got to
Speaker 5: have an actor who makes me listen, or at least
Speaker 5: I can listen to. And so that became kind of
Speaker 5: the little formula where and Also, if you let Jim lead,
Speaker 5: you follow, You're like a puppy on a leash and
Speaker 5: you can see me where Jim. There's like a half
Speaker 5: second delay, Harry, what you know? All you okay? You know,
Speaker 5: and then you go. And so that that allowed us
Speaker 5: to kind of you know, and then we would get
Speaker 5: into trouble and I turn on or yell at him
Speaker 5: or something. But it was, you know, a comedian and
Speaker 5: you know this, they'll try to top you. Sure, yes,
Speaker 5: And so it's that thing of here's the joke to come,
Speaker 5: Why I'm gonna come, Why I'm gonna come, you know,
Speaker 5: And the next thing, you know, it's what are we doing?
Speaker 5: What are we doing? And on the on the first
Speaker 5: dumb and dumber that it was, maybe there was one
Speaker 5: ad lib. You know, what's the most annoying sound in
Speaker 5: the world, And that was an ad lib. But other
Speaker 5: than that, everything was written. It was it was per
Speaker 5: the script, the gym and the failies had been over
Speaker 5: it and this is how it's gonna go, and you
Speaker 5: just executed it. And and he couldn't have been nicer,
Speaker 5: more collaborative. If I had a punchline, he set me up.
Speaker 5: If I had one, I set him up. I mean,
Speaker 5: we were it had to be a team, and that
Speaker 5: came from Jim wanting it to be a team.
Speaker 1: Wow, and we'll talk about I think they were just
Speaker 1: the kings of the nineties, the Fairlies were with I mean, Kingpin,
Speaker 1: Dumb and Dummer, something about Mary. I mean, just some
Speaker 1: of the funniest movies of like my late teens, early twenties.
Speaker 1: And to be able to work like Jim, I mean
Speaker 1: you saw it immediately as a comic, the clips I've
Speaker 1: seen in him at the comedy Store and just how
Speaker 1: talented he was and going into living color. Were you
Speaker 1: intimidated at all or were you just like, all right,
Speaker 1: this is groovy, Like this is exciting. This is what
Speaker 1: I need to get out of my rut. I mean,
Speaker 1: because like you said, you had done some independence. You know,
Speaker 1: did it come back? Do you do you do Speed
Speaker 1: before and then you know?
Speaker 5: Or was it like I did Speed before that? And
Speaker 5: we were shooting and Speed came We were shooting April
Speaker 5: to the end of June, I think, and Speed came
Speaker 5: out in June and Jim had masked at the can
Speaker 5: Film Festival and then that was so we both had
Speaker 5: something come out. But you know, I was in speed,
Speaker 5: you know, not intimidated. No, I just wanted to execute
Speaker 5: what I was supposed to do. And especially in Jim's
Speaker 5: Jim scenes where we're doing it together, you know, it's
Speaker 5: it's not a competition, Yes, I guess, collaboration and and
Speaker 5: if you're going to compete with Jim Carrey, you'r comedic movie. Yeah.
Speaker 5: So it was a collaboration and Jim was wide open
Speaker 5: to that. I also knew. And this was my agents,
Speaker 5: you know you talked about There was an intervention before
Speaker 5: I was to fly from Michigan to LA to start,
Speaker 5: you know, doing wardrobe for Domb and Dumber, there was
Speaker 5: an intervention. I had three of my agents, two in
Speaker 5: LA and one in New York on the phone at
Speaker 5: midnight before getting on the plane the next day, saying
Speaker 5: we're going to stop this from happening. This is not
Speaker 5: You're not going to do this movie. This is a
Speaker 5: bad career move. You're going to regret it for the
Speaker 5: rest of your life. To be honest, Jeff, Jim's going
Speaker 5: to blow you off the screen.
Speaker 1: And Wow, no confidence in you would be able to
Speaker 1: stay hang out everything you had done.
Speaker 5: The comedic genius that was Jim, you know, and I
Speaker 5: had shown nothing. I mean, maybe something wild, maybe purple
Speaker 5: Rosa Cairo, but that was different.
Speaker 1: There's comedy in Arachnophobia. It wasn't just a horror movie
Speaker 1: playing a funny character. I mean, but it's way different,
Speaker 1: not as slapsticky.
Speaker 6: And you know, but Liam Neeson, Liam Neeson would way
Speaker 6: before Naked Gun and Police Story, was doing dramas, I mean,
Speaker 6: be able to you know, you never know, it's yeah,
Speaker 6: but doing that now, I'll say, I met the other guy.
Speaker 1: What fuck, Leslie Nielsen. I'm sorry, Yeah, I met Liam too. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was right about what but I.
Speaker 5: Hadn't done it, and so and they were trying. I
Speaker 5: was on a path to be a serious, important actor
Speaker 5: who one day would get a Supporting Actor nomination. And
Speaker 5: I just was going, look, I want to I can
Speaker 5: do comedy. I want to work with Jim uh And
Speaker 5: I knew then, I mean, not only would I eventually
Speaker 5: find a way to collaborate with him that worked, but
Speaker 5: I knew that I had the snowball in the head,
Speaker 5: I had the tongue on the pole, and I had
Speaker 5: the toilet. I had those three scenes. Jim wasn't in
Speaker 5: those scenes unless they cut them out of the movie,
Speaker 5: which was possible. I was going to score, so I
Speaker 5: knew I had that. And so after I got through
Speaker 5: the first week of shooting and everybody decided that yeah,
Speaker 5: he's going to be okay, then we were fine everything.
Speaker 5: Yeah good.
Speaker 1: I love that.
Speaker 5: I love that.
Speaker 1: This is I don't want to be too off topic too,
Speaker 1: but it's like, what do you enjoy more doing the
Speaker 1: comedy or playing the bad guy in Looper?
Speaker 5: Looper was?
Speaker 1: I love that movie? Man, I think you're great at that.
Speaker 5: So it a great director, Joe Gordon Levitt. And I didn't.
Speaker 5: I didn't understand that movie. When you want me, what
Speaker 5: do you want me to say? That was big? No,
Speaker 5: I I the comedy is more fun. It's more the
Speaker 5: target that you have to hit is more sure. Not
Speaker 5: everybody can do comedy. And you know, Leslie Nielsen and
Speaker 5: The Naked Guns is a perfect example of that dead pan.
Speaker 5: You look at him and you think that he doesn't
Speaker 5: know where the joke is, but he knows exactly where
Speaker 5: the joke is. And you know Peter Sellers, guys like that,
Speaker 5: John Klees who went big and Faulty Towers, guys like that,
Speaker 5: stuck out to me, and so that's always been of
Speaker 5: interest to me. And then you do you know, like again,
Speaker 5: like a drama like God Godless, where you're playing you're
Speaker 5: playing somebody who I think I kill about thirty five
Speaker 5: people throughout the whole series. Well, you know, because it's
Speaker 5: the right thing to do. Yeah, But it's as you
Speaker 5: start doing that you get into the mind of those guys.
Speaker 5: That's fun. There's fun in that, but there's also fun
Speaker 5: and time and a good joke. Sure.
Speaker 1: I mean it's funny because I love being funny on stage,
Speaker 1: but as an actor, I love playing serious like darker
Speaker 1: characters and the stillness and just even like staring at
Speaker 1: somebody and not moving is carry so much weight where
Speaker 1: I'm such an energetic person on stage, So I can
Speaker 1: see why playing the darker characters or playing somebody that
Speaker 1: has to kill somebody you know, can be can be fun.
Speaker 1: But someone especially being able to work in that, you know,
Speaker 1: in the comedic world, you know, and be able to
Speaker 1: really dip into your child, you know, those things that
Speaker 1: you had as a kid. I mean, it's got to
Speaker 1: be it's got to just be magical and to be
Speaker 1: able to do with one of the best that ever
Speaker 1: did it. I mean and and like you said, I mean.
Speaker 5: We didn't know it at the time. I mean we Again,
Speaker 5: it's the fact that it's still funny to people who've
Speaker 5: seen it or are seeing it for the first time,
Speaker 5: you know, decades later. Is it's like Pink Panther with Peterson. Yeah,
Speaker 5: you don't know it at the time, but then there
Speaker 5: you are still making people laugh. That's pretty great. It was,
Speaker 5: you know. The fun of it for me was and
Speaker 5: actors find little key thoughts that that, well, you can
Speaker 5: hang onto and you can say to yourself right before
Speaker 5: you do, you know, whatever you're doing on Thursday, you
Speaker 5: can grab onto it. And my key thought was, Harry
Speaker 5: has an IQ of eight, a single digit IQ. You
Speaker 5: plan it that way, did not seven, not nine? And
Speaker 5: I would see the number eight, and any intelligence that
Speaker 5: I may have had just vanished, and then it was
Speaker 5: rolling and I was there. I held on to that
Speaker 5: for the whole shoot.
Speaker 1: You did such a phenomenal job, man, and it holds up.
Speaker 1: It's it's just a you changed the teel blue and
Speaker 1: bright or shitty tuxes for the entirety of history. And
Speaker 1: I've seen so many people bite off of that friends
Speaker 1: of mine for Halloween. So it's a great job, dude.
Speaker 1: Listen if we're going to talk about it in the
Speaker 1: next one another, there's something very iconic gears. We're talking
Speaker 1: about Helpless. We already mentioned the song before I asked
Speaker 1: the question, like, you know, we said, this is Neil
Speaker 1: Young songs, what he brought to the table. Everybody's blown away.
Speaker 1: This is one that everybody played on. Did you give
Speaker 1: your thoughts on it already or did you just we
Speaker 1: just mention it? You know, how are your thoughts on Helpless?
Speaker 1: You know, I know you're a Neil Young guy, You're
Speaker 1: Steven Still's Neil Young.
Speaker 5: You know. Again, it was Neil had the edge and
Speaker 5: I don't know the lyrics offhand, but it was this
Speaker 5: kind of certainly melancholy. But it wasn't the sunshine that
Speaker 5: was our house and teach your children, not at all.
Speaker 5: It wasn't the positive message that Graham was doing. Suddenly
Speaker 5: here comes this song called Helpless, and it again it
Speaker 5: was they were all doing their own things, which I
Speaker 5: guess made it made it interesting. It wasn't carry on
Speaker 5: for twelve songs, or our House for twelve songs, or
Speaker 5: even Helpless for twelve songs, it was there was a
Speaker 5: variety in there, which when you know, however they slotted
Speaker 5: it on the album, you know it jumped out.
Speaker 1: I love that you said that because I always like
Speaker 1: to talk about the sequencing, and the sequencing on this
Speaker 1: record is phenomenal. Like every song it's it's a new adventure.
Speaker 1: But the way they laid them out in order, it
Speaker 1: just feels right. And to bring it to the question,
Speaker 1: like I was saying, but the word helpless is that
Speaker 1: so many people in this world are feeling helpless. And
Speaker 1: when you started off with that opening monologue as will
Speaker 1: in the newsroom and deliver that speech and the pilot
Speaker 1: about how America is not the greatest country in the world,
Speaker 1: and how you basically in three minutes deliver the fact
Speaker 1: that you know that this is something that people now
Speaker 1: go to. Did you know at the moment when you
Speaker 1: did that speech, aside from Harry sitting on the toilet obviously,
Speaker 1: that that speech would be one of the most powerful
Speaker 1: moments of your career.
Speaker 5: No, I knew it was important. Aaron Sorkin, had you
Speaker 5: know originally it was that speech was not in the
Speaker 5: pilot that scene Will Wow in the first episode. The
Speaker 5: episode started with us back at the newsroom talking about
Speaker 5: what happened at Northwestern, and about ten days before we
Speaker 5: started shooting, you know, Aaron came up and he goes,
Speaker 5: you know, we need to see what happened. So I'm
Speaker 5: writing a speech. You'll have it in a couple of days, okay.
Speaker 5: And two days later he handed it to me and
Speaker 5: he said, do you think you can do this? And
Speaker 5: I said, Aaron, I've been waiting thirty five years for
Speaker 5: a speech like this.
Speaker 3: Oh.
Speaker 5: I love that, and not just for what it said,
Speaker 5: you know, because I thought what it said was honest
Speaker 5: and important and maybe not everybody likes it, but there
Speaker 5: it is, but also for my career. Yeah, you know
Speaker 5: I needed to hit a home run with that speech.
Speaker 5: It was placed what ten minutes into the first episode. Yeah,
Speaker 5: so HBO and everybody involved knows that if this show
Speaker 5: even airs, and the day we shot it, we didn't
Speaker 5: know if we were going to have a series. It
Speaker 5: depended on me hitting a home run with that speech.
Speaker 5: It was day three of an eighteen day shoot. We
Speaker 5: love Jeff, we think he's great, but man, does he
Speaker 5: have to hit a home run with his speech? Because
Speaker 5: that speech if we air will be when America sets
Speaker 5: down their remote. Yeah, they're watching, They're watching newsroom and
Speaker 5: I'll give you ten minutes. I'm out, Boom they go
Speaker 5: to something else. So that was that was important as
Speaker 5: to where it was placed and the day of we
Speaker 5: shot it in a place called College of the Canyons,
Speaker 5: which is an hour and a half out of LA
Speaker 5: because they had purple seats, which Northwestern had purple seats,
Speaker 5: and an auditorium Number two, three and four from HBO
Speaker 5: showed up that day. Sam Waterston, Olivia Mon Tom Sadowski,
Speaker 5: who were in the cast, drove out to watch it. Sam,
Speaker 5: who's a friend, later said, I just wanted to see
Speaker 5: if I had a job or not. That's what was
Speaker 5: at stake. Yeah, that was what was at stake. And
Speaker 5: I and I, you know, and I told Aaron, I
Speaker 5: and I and I knew and I had been around
Speaker 5: long enough and I knew that. You know, you've got
Speaker 5: to hit a home run. You can't hit a sing alert.
Speaker 5: You got to hit it over the fence first take.
Speaker 5: So I did the work, you know, like any any
Speaker 5: actor would do. You memorize, you wrap it, you work it,
Speaker 5: you work it, you make the choices, you get it
Speaker 5: so you can ride it like you're riding a horse.
Speaker 5: And they they shot this way first, and then when
Speaker 5: they turned around they said, are you ready. I said yeah,
Speaker 5: and uh, rolled camera and I hit a home run
Speaker 5: on the first tap.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 5: I looked over at the video village and they were
Speaker 5: crying wow, and not the performance, yeah, but what it said.
Speaker 5: And they knew at that moment they had a series,
Speaker 5: they had a show, and they had a macaboy and
Speaker 5: you know. And then we did a second take and
Speaker 5: and Greg Matola, director came up and said, okay, on
Speaker 5: this one, the second half of the speech, instead of
Speaker 5: you know, maintaining the anger all the way through, wish
Speaker 5: it could be again the greatest country in the world,
Speaker 5: melancholy and so you can see the change. So and
Speaker 5: then we did a whole bunch of other shots. But
Speaker 5: that became the way we did it was to ban
Speaker 5: here's the big rant, chew out the little sorority girl,
Speaker 5: and then wish it could be and here's what we
Speaker 5: could be when we didn't belittle education. When we did,
Speaker 5: you know, and get emotional about it. And that's at
Speaker 5: the end of that day, and we knew we were
Speaker 5: going to have a series.
Speaker 1: I you know, we we we had Rob low On,
Speaker 1: we brought up Sorkin, and it's like, he's arguably one
Speaker 1: of my favorite writers, whether it's television or movies. And
Speaker 1: I saw it from immediately when my parents rented Malice
Speaker 1: years ago, which I think is this underrated movie that
Speaker 1: he did, you know in the nineties or maybe even
Speaker 1: the Ladies, but early nineties at that it's like, I mean, what,
Speaker 1: what's that experience like working with somebody because you were
Speaker 1: so many diferent directors, was working with somebody who's so
Speaker 1: dialogue specific and his words are like like you said earlier,
Speaker 1: it's it's a it's a you know, it's a dance.
Speaker 1: You know, you're but his words are so you know,
Speaker 1: there's nuances to every sentence, like you know, like how
Speaker 1: much fun were you were you having working on that show?
Speaker 1: Working with Sorkin.
Speaker 5: It's the advantage to to working on anything where there's
Speaker 5: just one writer. Yeah, it's his voice, it's just written.
Speaker 5: You know. Noah baumback on Squid in the Whale, love.
Speaker 1: That movie very under dude. You were in two You
Speaker 1: were in two of my favorite movies that year with
Speaker 1: Good Night, Good Luck and Squid in the Whale Love
Speaker 1: that movie.
Speaker 5: That was Noah writing about his dad, and there weren't
Speaker 5: four other writers on it. Woody, you know in Purple
Speaker 5: Rosa Cairo, it' should it's it's having that singular voice,
Speaker 5: and you have that in the theater, you know, whether
Speaker 5: it's Broadway or whatever it is. There is one playwright.
Speaker 5: There isn't a committee of play rights. There aren't three
Speaker 5: play playwrights that have been on the script, and we're
Speaker 5: going to give it to another one, which is what
Speaker 5: Hollywood does. You know, you get to you know, the
Speaker 5: set and ten screen you know, five screenwriters, and we're
Speaker 5: on our twelve draft and so yeah, you can note
Speaker 5: things to death. Well that wasn't the case with Aaron
Speaker 5: his you know, and once you pick up his rhythm,
Speaker 5: it's pretty clear. It's it's not hard to You just
Speaker 5: got to learn it and then be able to roll it.
Speaker 5: And it really was the best when you can roll it.
Speaker 5: And and all the people on West Wing, I mean,
Speaker 5: I studied that show and I told Erin, I watched
Speaker 5: that show not just for the acting, but I watched
Speaker 5: the writing and the way they could just you know,
Speaker 5: it was it was just like going down on rapids
Speaker 5: of a river. Yeah, Aaron's the river and and it's
Speaker 5: it's you just got to find that that rhythm, and
Speaker 5: it's there. And I never had a problem with you know, Aaron,
Speaker 5: can we talk about this. I don't know what I'm
Speaker 5: doing here. I don't know my choices. I know it
Speaker 5: was always very clear what Accaboy wanted, what he didn't want,
Speaker 5: what he was fighting against, what he was saying. It
Speaker 5: was always you just had to learn it. And you know,
Speaker 5: coming from the theater where you didn't change your word,
Speaker 5: you know, unless you went to the playwright and asked permission.
Speaker 5: You know, it wasn't until you go to Hollywood where
Speaker 5: you see the star walking on the set with pages going, yeah,
Speaker 5: I rewrote the end of the movie. Take a look
Speaker 5: at it. Okay, you know that wasn't that. Will we
Speaker 5: don't change your word? Okay? Great, I don't have to
Speaker 5: worry about rewriting anything in my head. Good, terrific? Great?
Speaker 1: Oh I love that.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Note to all the people making anything in the Alien franchise,
Speaker 1: go back to one writer. Please please let James Cameron
Speaker 1: do it again. No more Alien three or Prometheus is sorry.
Speaker 1: I'm just that's my note to the Alien franchise. I
Speaker 1: love that franchise so much, but dude, well, yeah, Sorkin, Dude,
Speaker 1: I mean, how many people go back to that speech
Speaker 1: with Martin Sheen talking to that that Christian girl going
Speaker 1: through the Bible verses? I mean that that speech is
Speaker 1: up there with that people. I mean it really and
Speaker 1: especially the direction that America's gone, you know, and and
Speaker 1: there's still, like we talked about earlier, the hope of it.
Speaker 1: I mean, your character is speaking truth and and he
Speaker 1: Aaron just knows and everything that he's done, whether it's
Speaker 1: you know, sports writers or Saturday Night Live writers or
Speaker 1: talk show, you know, whatever it is fucking social network.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's it's just brilliant line after brilliant line,
Speaker 1: and and it's it's just to be able to see,
Speaker 1: you know, you do that speech, and just as we
Speaker 1: talk to you now about it, it's that makes it
Speaker 1: even better, like just to know that it was like shit,
Speaker 1: you guys weren't even picked up at that point, did.
Speaker 5: You chunk it at all?
Speaker 1: You didn't, You didn't like, were there moments when you
Speaker 1: were doing it that you were like at the beginning
Speaker 1: when you were running it like, oh fuck, all right,
Speaker 1: what am I gonna say here? Or did you see
Speaker 1: it immediately? You saw it immediately? Right?
Speaker 5: Well, I you know, I did the work so that
Speaker 5: I was prepared and then you know I hit it.
Speaker 1: But you definitely hit it.
Speaker 5: Any actor, you know, you open on Broadway, any actor
Speaker 5: that opens and you hit it. You just have to
Speaker 5: do the work to do that. And so I did.
Speaker 5: That's all I was, just I did it was you know,
Speaker 5: one of Aaron's heroes I think as a writer was
Speaker 5: Patty Chayefsky. You know, he's another guy that you know,
Speaker 5: you see William Holden and fade dunaway in a scene
Speaker 5: from Network and it's it's it's holding and done away.
Speaker 5: But there are three people in that scene, and the
Speaker 5: other one is Patty Chaievsky, And that's what Sorkin does
Speaker 5: and Scott Frank does. I was like, no one did
Speaker 5: it was quid in the whale. That's when when it's
Speaker 5: okay that it's written, you know, the actor's job is
Speaker 5: to make it sound like it isn't. Yeah, and that's
Speaker 5: that's you know, that's where we come in.
Speaker 1: So I love that. Oh, I love that, all right,
Speaker 1: speaking of somebody that wrote words that they had nothing
Speaker 1: to do with. The next song, Woodstock, was written by
Speaker 1: Joni Mitchell, and it's.
Speaker 5: Also she didn't go. She didn't go to Woodstock.
Speaker 1: She did not go, she graham Nash. Her boyfriend told
Speaker 1: her about it, So this is her writing a song
Speaker 1: about what he said. She was too busy doing Ladies
Speaker 1: in the Canyon, but she wrote the song. As graham
Speaker 1: Nash described it, it's a beautiful song. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: too bad that you couldn't go to Woodstock. You know,
Speaker 1: your dad fucking had.
Speaker 5: I had a friend of mine, an actor friend of
Speaker 5: mine from New York, who did go. It was a nightmare.
Speaker 5: I hate it, the blud it took. We couldn't get out,
Speaker 5: we couldn't get in. We go Oh my god. I mean,
Speaker 5: he just it just it just destroyed it for me.
Speaker 1: I wanted to go to Woodstock ninety nine so bad,
Speaker 1: and I'm so glad in retrospect that I didn't, because
Speaker 1: I love the documentaries of the mess of it. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's it's just, you know, it doesn't look enjoyable at all.
Speaker 1: And at least with the original Woodstock there was a
Speaker 1: vibe and you know, there boobs out and you know
Speaker 1: people dancing in the mud. I mean, you get all
Speaker 1: you get Jimmy and you got Sly in the family
Speaker 1: Stone and and and former guests of the podcast to
Speaker 1: headline it blood, sweat and tears, just which is crazy
Speaker 1: just to know that. So I wanted to ask you
Speaker 1: what was the greatest event that had the biggest impact
Speaker 1: on you was, whether at a concert, a play, or
Speaker 1: a movie or an album. But like this, I just
Speaker 1: like to stick to more live. Something you saw live.
Speaker 5: Ooh, ooh ooh. I was playing guitar. I was an
Speaker 5: off Broadway actor in the late seventies and I was
Speaker 5: playing guitar and I could fingerpick a little, and I
Speaker 5: wanted to get better. And I went to the bottom
Speaker 5: line and I saw Doc Watson and Merle Watson and
Speaker 5: T Michael Coleman the bass player, just the three of them,
Speaker 5: and that blew me away. That that made me want
Speaker 5: to learn what Doc was doing or deep River Blues
Speaker 5: or something, you know, which I can play now, But
Speaker 5: that was like that was that was a mountain to
Speaker 5: try to climb, to try to what he was doing
Speaker 5: and what they were doing together, and just with acoustic guitars.
Speaker 5: That and to be in a smaller room, like the
Speaker 5: bottom line was maybe it was I'm guessing three hundred
Speaker 5: seats and to see somebody that I had his album,
Speaker 5: somebody had turned me on to him, and there he was,
Speaker 5: and I'm gonna go see him live and oh and
Speaker 5: he's blind, by the way. You know that that changed me.
Speaker 5: That that sent me to the Tamblature books of Doc
Speaker 5: and Stefan Grossman and people like that. That was that
Speaker 5: was a trigger.
Speaker 1: How long ago was that? You said?
Speaker 5: I forgot?
Speaker 1: You said how old were you when.
Speaker 5: He said the late seventies, my seventies.
Speaker 1: Yeah, something about live music that you know I don't.
Speaker 1: I are my writer, Morty. Well, I'll take it to this.
Speaker 1: We had the biggest music critic on the internet, Anthony
Speaker 1: fantana On who has this show on the YouTube. It's
Speaker 1: got like three million subscribers, called the Needle Drop. He's
Speaker 1: like the dude on the internet the reviews records a
Speaker 1: lot of younger stuff, older stuff too. He's a really
Speaker 1: good dude. And we had done Prince nineteen ninety nine
Speaker 1: and I asked him who's about to make their Purple
Speaker 1: Rain and he said, Tyler the creator And he's a
Speaker 1: young guy, you know, hip hop dude, but all this
Speaker 1: kids love him. And our writer Morty took his daughter
Speaker 1: and he was playing Madison Square Garden and nothing to do,
Speaker 1: no shows, and so I went on a whim. Don't
Speaker 1: know any of his songs, and there was a moment
Speaker 1: where he is singing, rapping, and then and then that
Speaker 1: the to the one side of the audience and the
Speaker 1: lights come on and you see the other side, you
Speaker 1: see the arena that side, and it's all these kids
Speaker 1: just singing his lyrics. I don't know any of the songs,
Speaker 1: and it was just it moved me so much because
Speaker 1: it was like, man, that's their dude, and I remember
Speaker 1: being that kid. And and it's like it's why I
Speaker 1: go to concerts NonStop. There's nothing. It's the same way
Speaker 1: we go to the movies. There's something about sitting in
Speaker 1: that dark room with strangers, feeling that you know that
Speaker 1: that moment. But but with live music, it's it's different
Speaker 1: than any other art form, you know, like whereas a.
Speaker 5: Movie, I agree with you, I think theater can be
Speaker 5: that way too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 5: I think live music has it over theater and and
Speaker 5: that AI can't do. Now what Tyler did. No, Tyler's
Speaker 5: got to walk on that stage and have done the
Speaker 5: work to be that good tonight just for you in
Speaker 5: this room. And and AI can't do that movies, you know.
Speaker 5: I think the day's coming when we can see Tom
Speaker 5: Hanks at thirty years old. Sure, and everybody around him
Speaker 5: is AI and so is Tom. And and as long
Speaker 5: as the audience is okay with that and it makes
Speaker 5: a hundred million, we're good. You know, even you know
Speaker 5: you brought up live music thing is different. I think
Speaker 5: live music is you know, Springsteen's got to get out
Speaker 5: there and do it. Yeah, you still just had to
Speaker 5: walk on the stage for four A Way Street and
Speaker 5: hit it, you know.
Speaker 1: But we can watch Squid in the Whale and feel
Speaker 1: the awkward moments that that are in that movie. I
Speaker 1: remember squirming at certain parts by how uncomfortable it was,
Speaker 1: whether it was with Jesse's character, your character, I mean,
Speaker 1: because it's it's life and and that's a beautiful thing.
Speaker 1: That's that's something that that you keep. No, dude, it's
Speaker 1: every movie I go to see at the AMC. When
Speaker 1: Nicole Kidman comes out and does that speech. She made
Speaker 1: twenty five million dollars for literally just wearing a nice
Speaker 1: dress and saying movies rule, we cry, we laugh, there's
Speaker 1: everybody cheers for that, you know, and it's it's a beautiful,
Speaker 1: beautiful thing. But I'll say it.
Speaker 5: I hope it hangs song.
Speaker 1: Yeah, just no, and you're you know, you're I dig it,
Speaker 1: I dig it for sure, all right, Deja Vu, We've
Speaker 1: got a couple more. Let's see, I got a little
Speaker 1: Morty just sent me these. Deja Vu is a poigned
Speaker 1: song with a beautifully baroque intro section has David Crosby
Speaker 1: writing about reincarnation in the Buddhist belief that energy never
Speaker 1: goes away, it just keeps recycling. While carry On was
Speaker 1: done in like eight hours from start to finish, this
Speaker 1: track was an arduous and laborious process to get done.
Speaker 1: Thoughts on dejav Vus the title track.
Speaker 5: And not a lot of thoughts about it. I mean,
Speaker 5: it's just it sounds like that was the one where
Speaker 5: Crossby got a lot of help. You know, that might
Speaker 5: have been one of those were you know, they were
Speaker 5: jumping in versus just letting him do what he does
Speaker 5: or you know, yeah, not a lot of thoughts about it.
Speaker 1: That's funny that you say that because when we were
Speaker 1: going through this, this is one that we were going
Speaker 1: to skip over because it just doesn't it's not bad.
Speaker 1: Obviously it's a title track of the song. But I
Speaker 1: like the question that he came up with. This might
Speaker 1: seem like a peculiar question, but you know, going back
Speaker 1: to any of the characters, if you've done a sequel
Speaker 1: with Harry, which you got to do the sequel with
Speaker 1: with dumb and number two, who would you want to
Speaker 1: pick up on and see where they're at now or
Speaker 1: just visit that character again?
Speaker 4: Oh?
Speaker 5: Man, oh I have now I'm trying to remember what I've.
Speaker 1: Denton Webb and Welcome Home Roxy Carmichael.
Speaker 5: No, I don't think so, you know, it would it would, Uh,
Speaker 5: it wouldn't, you know, Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain and Gettysburg after
Speaker 5: the war. Uh, you know we shot Gettysburg and then
Speaker 5: Gods in Generals, which was actually before the Gettysburg shot
Speaker 5: it out of order. Yeah, maybe to you know, see
Speaker 5: the third act of Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain's life, maybe.
Speaker 1: You'd want to go back to that time period again
Speaker 1: and have to like, you know, dirt it up and
Speaker 1: just those clothes did not look comfortable. I mean, I know,
Speaker 1: like consuming, they definitely fluff it up, but I mean
Speaker 1: those are like you're dressing like a Hasidic Jew. It's
Speaker 1: probably hot out there, you're wearing sick.
Speaker 5: It was Pennsylvania and ninety degrees ninety percent humidity, and
Speaker 5: we were not wool. Yeah yeah, and we all had,
Speaker 5: you know, fake beards and mustaches that kept peeling off.
Speaker 1: You're like a break head. Here can I work and
Speaker 1: put down my musket? Can I take off this eighty
Speaker 1: pounds of jacket?
Speaker 5: There was you know, we we had like the Battle
Speaker 5: of a little Round Top was you know, we kind
Speaker 5: of reenacted that, and the Confederates kept coming up the
Speaker 5: hill and up the hill. And you've got a lot
Speaker 5: of these reenactors, these guys that have drove across the
Speaker 5: country to be in this movie, and they're living intense
Speaker 5: and they're they're pretending it's the eighteen sixties for four
Speaker 5: straight weeks. You know, you're in your trailer. You come
Speaker 5: out here they are and they got their muskets and
Speaker 5: they just want to be transported back. You know, they're
Speaker 5: so into it. They made the movie better because you
Speaker 5: could run the camera across their faces and they were
Speaker 5: into it, you know, and after a take or two
Speaker 5: of the Confederates coming up, the assistant director had to
Speaker 5: get on the megaphone and say, all right, guys, some
Speaker 5: of you seem to be putting some kind of something
Speaker 5: in your muskets their paper wads. There's something. We've got
Speaker 5: to stop doing that because they actually, the Confederate actors
Speaker 5: are feeling feeling the pelt being pelted. Remember this is
Speaker 5: just a movie, you know. They get the guys to stop,
Speaker 5: you know, kind of tap tap tip. But you know,
Speaker 5: oh for good, I got that.
Speaker 1: That's hilarious into it.
Speaker 5: They were that into it.
Speaker 1: But that's that's so groovy though, man. I mean the
Speaker 1: people that be better, Yeah, I mean you want everybody
Speaker 1: to be on board and be excited, and like you
Speaker 1: get real people that are that's this is their this
Speaker 1: is their gig. They love doing the reenactments.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 1: It's better than just getting a bunch of guys from
Speaker 1: Central Casting and just throwing ship on them.
Speaker 5: You know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Dude, Big ups to to the director who is the
Speaker 1: Ron Maxwell Man, he's in the producers. That's it's great.
Speaker 1: I remember seeing that all right, our house is a
Speaker 1: very very very fine house on Gay Down Gay. This
Speaker 1: song is written not just amongst breakups, but also tragedy,
Speaker 1: Like I mentioned, yeah, really heavy. Uh Graham Nash Joni
Speaker 1: had just broke up, so he writes a song about
Speaker 1: domestic bliss and David real tragic man mourning the loss
Speaker 1: of Christine. I want to make sure I get this right.
Speaker 1: Christine Hinton who gets into a car accident. I think
Speaker 1: she's on the way to the vet and the cat
Speaker 1: jumps on her lap and it causes her to drive
Speaker 1: off the road or crash into something, but she passes away.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 1: There is domestic bliss on the surface, but there is
Speaker 1: this absolute tragedy.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 1: I don't know if I like this song on this
Speaker 1: record because it's it's I don't want to call it cheesy,
Speaker 1: because it's not a cheesy song. It's a beautiful song.
Speaker 1: And over the years I think i've you know, when
Speaker 1: I was younger, I might have made fun of it.
Speaker 1: As I've gotten older, you know, it's I think it's
Speaker 1: it's changed my opinion. But fitting it on the record,
Speaker 1: I just don't know if it fits with the vibe
Speaker 1: of this I feel like this and you know, it's
Speaker 1: more of a teacher children. But thoughts. I don't want
Speaker 1: to sit here and say it's bad. It's not a
Speaker 1: bad song. I mean it's a good song, but your thoughts, Jeff.
Speaker 5: My wife Kathleen does a sing along to raise some
Speaker 5: money for diabetes every summer and that's one of the
Speaker 5: songs they sing along. It's an easy song to sing
Speaker 5: along with. It's again, it's positive. It's it's at least,
Speaker 5: you know, to those who are just singing it, not
Speaker 5: really worried about what was going on when they wrote it. Yeah,
Speaker 5: you know, it's pretty and Graham did a great job
Speaker 5: of writing songs like that, and it it juxtaposed as
Speaker 5: well with Helpless and you know later on with you know,
Speaker 5: when Neil was you know, coming out with Southern Man
Speaker 5: and Ohio and all of that. I mean, it's to
Speaker 5: go from one side to the other, is you know,
Speaker 5: I give them credit for that. That's a lot from
Speaker 5: a songwriting standpoint, that's a that's a good range, it is.
Speaker 1: And speaking of range and starting at a certain spot,
Speaker 1: your second movie is Terms of Endearment. And in the
Speaker 1: movie you're not you're not playing the best character. You're
Speaker 1: playing Deb's husband who cheats on her and then ultimately
Speaker 1: she passes. But what was that like for your second movie?
Speaker 1: Because you're up there with Jack and Shirley and Debbie.
Speaker 1: I'm acting like I know here, Deborah, I'm sorry, you're
Speaker 1: playing this shitty guy. How hard was that for you
Speaker 1: as your second film to play with three powerhouses, especially
Speaker 1: Shirley McLean and Jack. I mean.
Speaker 5: It was it was going to it was like having
Speaker 5: a seat in a master's class. I've been acting, not
Speaker 5: just Shirley and Deborah, but Jack. I was twenty eight
Speaker 5: years old, and I just kept my mouth shut and
Speaker 5: I just I would go to the set when I
Speaker 5: wasn't supposed to be working, just so I could watch Jack,
Speaker 5: watch Shirley, watch Deborah. You know, they they I learned
Speaker 5: a lot on that movie. I was off Broadway next
Speaker 5: thing I know, I'm with those three people. So that was,
Speaker 5: you know, just hold up your end. And it was
Speaker 5: the character was so unlikable that nobody, no star, young
Speaker 5: star with a name at that time, wanted to do it.
Speaker 5: You know, I mean, you cheat on Deborah Winger and
Speaker 5: then she dies, you know, come on past. You know.
Speaker 5: I was thrilled to get it. I was thrilled to
Speaker 5: get it. I learned a lot. I learned a lot.
Speaker 1: Did they make you comfortable the way that you make
Speaker 1: younger actors comfortable being?
Speaker 5: You know, the way?
Speaker 1: Did you learn maybe that from them? I know you
Speaker 1: said your father also implied that in you. But you know,
Speaker 1: were they giving as well?
Speaker 5: Did she was? She was great with me. She knew
Speaker 5: I was, you know, a babe in the woods, and
Speaker 5: and she had just come off of the successive officer
Speaker 5: and a gentleman. Yes, she was. She was the Julia
Speaker 5: Roberts of her time at that moment, and she didn't
Speaker 5: have to be nice to me about anything, and she
Speaker 5: was she really you know, I felt fine, you know
Speaker 5: on the set with her. You know, Sureley was was
Speaker 5: was was terrific, but she and Deborah were kind of
Speaker 5: at each other, and so I stayed out of that.
Speaker 5: And then Jack showed up. But I really didn't have
Speaker 5: any scenes with Jack, and I didn't, you know, annoy
Speaker 5: him by sitting next to him on the set. You know,
Speaker 5: if I just I watched, I watched, I'm Jim Brooks
Speaker 5: brought me. I did. I still don't see dailies to
Speaker 5: this day, but Jim Brooks asked me if I wanted
Speaker 5: to see some dailies though of a scene that I
Speaker 5: wasn't in. I said yes, So he showed me the
Speaker 5: scene between Jack and Shirley in the kitchen. It was
Speaker 5: a two shot of the two of them and Jim
Speaker 5: or Jack goes into the I'm one hundred I'm one
Speaker 5: of one hundred and six fucking astronauts. You know. It's
Speaker 5: that speech. And he did about five takes. And this
Speaker 5: is back when, and maybe it still is, but back
Speaker 5: when films you could kind of rehearse on film, kind
Speaker 5: of learn the lines as you go, get used to it,
Speaker 5: find some choices, work off each other. And then about
Speaker 5: take six he took off really good. Great. Here comes
Speaker 5: take seven again, same, just different. Here's eight where he's
Speaker 5: even angrier. Here's nine where he undercuts it, he goes underneath.
Speaker 5: Then here's ten where he does something completely different from
Speaker 5: the other. And between six through ten, Jim Brooks turned
Speaker 5: around when that was the end of the takes. Jim
Speaker 5: turned to me and said, which one do I use?
Speaker 5: You know, and you watched Jack give the editor options
Speaker 5: and give him options too, that he was chasing impulses
Speaker 5: and Merrill does this, You know, that's where I learned
Speaker 5: that it wasn't about with theater where you rehearse for
Speaker 5: seven weeks and then you kind of lock it, and
Speaker 5: that's what you do from the first show on. It
Speaker 5: moves around, but you're supposed to kind of lock it.
Speaker 5: This is the opposite of that. You're chasing whatever you're
Speaker 5: feeling at this moment, and if it doesn't work, it's
Speaker 5: just takes number seven and you delete it. But to
Speaker 5: watch him kind of just trust his instincts and give
Speaker 5: Brooks options and then let him figure it out in
Speaker 5: the editing room is it was a different experience than
Speaker 5: doing the same thing for straight takes, uh, which which
Speaker 5: is a way to control your performance where the director
Speaker 5: only has that Well, he only did it the one way,
Speaker 5: so I guess we got to go with that. But
Speaker 5: Jack was was trusted Jim Brooks enough to give it
Speaker 5: to him different ways, and then so that Jim could
Speaker 5: could work with it, not only what Jim had written,
Speaker 5: but Jack's you know what Jack took from it and
Speaker 5: was able to roll with it. You know, that's where
Speaker 5: them that's where film is kind of a lot of fun.
Speaker 5: If that's where the magic happens, and you know, you
Speaker 5: only have to make it happen for the first time once. Yeah,
Speaker 5: you know, I think you've got to make it look
Speaker 5: like it's happening for the first time and it's shown
Speaker 5: over hundred and twelve.
Speaker 1: Well, I went to see my my buddies were in
Speaker 1: uh like Bob, Odenkirk and Burr and uh, oh my god,
Speaker 1: I can't think of his naything guy from Spinal Tap.
Speaker 1: Uh we're in uh uh not more, Michael McKean, We're
Speaker 1: in Glenburry, Glenn Ross and I went about five different
Speaker 1: times and it was cool seeing it was some shows
Speaker 1: it was funnier, some shows it was darker, and some
Speaker 1: shows it was uh, you know it was it was
Speaker 1: a little bit of both. But to see the choices
Speaker 1: that the actors made, you know, in that moment, because
Speaker 1: sometimes Bob was even funny, it was was mister Showbob
Speaker 1: and David and sometimes you know Burr. You know, Burr
Speaker 1: was always angry the whole time, which was great. But
Speaker 1: it really it really was this this really cool dance.
Speaker 1: And going off of what you said about about Jack,
Speaker 1: I mean, there's that great Matt Damon story about the
Speaker 1: departed talking to him where he's like, you know, and
Speaker 1: he's like, you know, I wouldn't have lasted so long
Speaker 1: if I wasn't a good writer. And it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: there was a scene where he shoots the girl and
Speaker 1: he's like, when if you cut right there, you know,
Speaker 1: but if you keep going and then I improve this
Speaker 1: and then but if you cut right you could cut
Speaker 1: right there, but if you keep going and let the
Speaker 1: camera roll and this lets him play around, and I think,
Speaker 1: you know, you know, I know that might have been
Speaker 1: the first time that he was working with James L. Brooks,
Speaker 1: but something like as good as it gets, where Jim
Speaker 1: uh and Jack are just I think at their best.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just such a powerful performance and the
Speaker 1: writing and the story. You know, I wonder just like
Speaker 1: just how much you know they're they're just enjoying what
Speaker 1: you know, he's being given to say. And then how
Speaker 1: much Jack, who seems like he just really is is
Speaker 1: so good at at what he does, and especially from
Speaker 1: from working with so many great directors over the years
Speaker 1: that trust him, and you know, it's it's it's great
Speaker 1: you get you've worked with so many great people that
Speaker 1: you know, you've been able to really see like just
Speaker 1: the progression between you know, you know what bad acting is,
Speaker 1: you know what good acting is, and you know what
Speaker 1: being the character is. And I think someone like Jack
Speaker 1: or Christopher Walking and Meryl Streep those people in yourself.
Speaker 1: It's like you guys live in your characters and you
Speaker 1: and you you understand it. You know what your character wants,
Speaker 1: and once you know that, then you can have fun,
Speaker 1: you know, And that's that's the beauty of it.
Speaker 5: The other thing that I learned, especially on that movie
Speaker 5: and from someone as revered as Jack, is that it's
Speaker 5: because there's no rehearsal for film, it's guesswork. So this
Speaker 5: is your best guess as to what you think the
Speaker 5: scene is from this character's point of view. And maybe
Speaker 5: you know or maybe you don't know. And so you know,
Speaker 5: Jack from the get go is kind of going, what
Speaker 5: do you think if I do this or I do that?
Speaker 5: And Brooks, who's smart, brilliant, Yeah, try it because you
Speaker 5: never know. You get into editing and you're gonna wish
Speaker 5: you had that one where he wasn't as angry. You're
Speaker 5: gonna wish you had that one where he said, can
Speaker 5: I try it? Where I just I remember Jim, or
Speaker 5: Jim said to Jack, he goes, yeah, great job. I
Speaker 5: have an idea. It's kind of you know, out on
Speaker 5: a limb, and I Jack said, I love going out
Speaker 5: on limbs. I get in trouble out there, and I
Speaker 5: just risk it, risk it. And that's different than the theater.
Speaker 5: The theater is that's inside the rehearsal room, and then
Speaker 5: you know they, no, don't do that. Come over here,
Speaker 5: and maybe you find a way to you know, do
Speaker 5: the similar thing. But it's you know, it's weeks ago,
Speaker 5: this is on the day right now, roll it, boom,
Speaker 5: hit it. Give it to them. Now they have it.
Speaker 5: And now months later when they're in an editing room,
Speaker 5: they've got options because I learned that. It's because it's guesswork.
Speaker 5: You don't know for sure whether this is the only
Speaker 5: way to do the speech or the scene. You know,
Speaker 5: you you know, if you're moving on TV and it's one, two,
Speaker 5: three takes, got to move the cameras, then you got
Speaker 5: to make some choices and stick to them, and that's it.
Speaker 5: But if you give yourself some options, because that's that's
Speaker 5: where you write. The final draft of the movie is
Speaker 5: in the editing, Yeah, I did two Indy's where I
Speaker 5: wrote and directed and acted at him. And that's that's
Speaker 5: where I learned that where I'm going, Okay, the scene
Speaker 5: doesn't work, is there, like, God, is there a take
Speaker 5: where I didn't do? What?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 5: And that's where you write the final draft And yeah,
Speaker 5: Brooks knew that and Jack knew that, And so let
Speaker 5: me give you a couple other options and in the
Speaker 5: event that you need.
Speaker 1: Them, Yeah, I love that. Not to get too off
Speaker 1: top of I mentioned Christopher Walking, there's that when he
Speaker 1: did Catch Me if you Can, and he has Spielberg
Speaker 1: being interviewed and he's just doing this thing talking to Leo,
Speaker 1: and he does this scene three different ways. He does
Speaker 1: it straight, he does it a little bit like more intense,
Speaker 1: and then the last one he starts crying, getting choked up,
Speaker 1: and it's like Spielberg's just blown away. He's I never
Speaker 1: even would have.
Speaker 5: Thought of that.
Speaker 1: He's giving this speech about like you know, it was
Speaker 1: either being the military or something. But it was just
Speaker 1: like I love that choice, and it's like, that's so
Speaker 1: fun just to be able to give the director and
Speaker 1: while them where they don't even think that, well, I
Speaker 1: didn't even think of trying it that way.
Speaker 5: It's, you know, the talent like Walkin does to do that,
Speaker 5: to give it to them three different ways instead of
Speaker 5: arguing about the only way my character would.
Speaker 1: Do this is X.
Speaker 5: Yeah, give it to him three different ways. He's Steven Spielberg.
Speaker 5: He's probably gonna make you look good, you know. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 5: The one that works for the story, which is a
Speaker 5: whole other thing. Yeah, is the choice you're making serving
Speaker 5: the story, probably to bring it back a little bit
Speaker 5: like the solo that you're doing in almost cut your hair,
Speaker 5: cut my hair? Does it serve the song? Or is
Speaker 5: it you just show it off? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Totally something that was that.
Speaker 5: Doesn't really fit it somehow and you don't quite know why,
Speaker 5: but it just doesn't. And again, when I saw Krogie Stilts,
Speaker 5: Nash and Young in Chicago, and when I saw Neil
Speaker 5: do those single note things way up high, for whatever reason,
Speaker 5: it was exactly what it needed to be and I
Speaker 5: completely got it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, talking about not touching something, we're gonna mention it.
Speaker 1: But for timing, I want to move on, because I
Speaker 1: want to get to Country Girl, because I like that
Speaker 1: question more. But for it's four and twenty. That was
Speaker 1: the song that Stills did by himself. When he brought
Speaker 1: it to the band, they said, it's perfect, do not
Speaker 1: touch it. Everything is great. I want to if you
Speaker 1: have any thoughts on that, you can or on four
Speaker 1: and twenty you can, you can mentioned. But I want
Speaker 1: to ask you the question for a country, what do
Speaker 1: you on?
Speaker 5: That is there?
Speaker 1: I think so let me let me take a look
Speaker 1: at the statistics. I'm pretty sure that I'm pretty crosby
Speaker 1: and nasting harmony parts again, he into, They planned to
Speaker 1: at least, and then they were refused. Actually that is
Speaker 1: what it says.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, it's again. It's completely different from anything else.
Speaker 1: It's a still song. It's a still song. It's as
Speaker 1: still as long as it can be.
Speaker 5: Yeah. A good song is a song that can be
Speaker 5: sung on an acoustic with just an acoustic guitar, and
Speaker 5: if it holds up, it's it's maybe even a great song. Yeah,
Speaker 5: that's whole trope. But it's different from country Girl and
Speaker 5: all the other stuff and carry on and all the
Speaker 5: other stuff they're doing, which is at times of those
Speaker 5: harmonies and the operettic kind of feel and the to
Speaker 5: some of those other songs here comes four and twenty,
Speaker 5: which is just so naked that it jumps out. It's
Speaker 5: the same way Helpless jumps out, Yeah, just for different reasons.
Speaker 1: With country Girl, though, this one's the Neil Young song.
Speaker 1: And this is made up of two different songs that
Speaker 1: he had earlier written for Buffalo Springfield, called Whiskey Boot Hill,
Speaker 1: which he had done as an instrumental string quartete arrangement
Speaker 1: on his debut record, and Downtown Down, which would be
Speaker 1: wouldn't be released till years later on a box set.
Speaker 1: He added those to a third section that he was
Speaker 1: calling country Girl in quotations, I think you're pretty overall,
Speaker 1: it's very densely orchestrated and mournful waltz. Yeah, I was saying,
Speaker 1: it's like they already had a sweet with Sweet Judy
Speaker 1: blue Eyes, so this is kind of like them bringing
Speaker 1: it back to that. It brings us into a bar
Speaker 1: where stars are drinking, where people are flirting with the waitress.
Speaker 1: The third section simply yearns for a country girl to
Speaker 1: allow him to be her countryman and presumably take her own,
Speaker 1: take her away from the city. I really liked this one.
Speaker 1: I I you know, I'm not saying I disliked the
Speaker 1: final song on the record, But I really if they
Speaker 1: would have ended the record with country Girl, I wouldn't
Speaker 1: have been upset. And I'm not taking anything away from
Speaker 1: Everybody I Love You. It's a good song, but it's
Speaker 1: just we were this was one that we were thinking
Speaker 1: of skipping your thoughts on country Girl.
Speaker 5: Yeah, Everybody I Love You sounds like, let's let's give
Speaker 5: it a happy ending. Yeah, very But where country Girl is?
Speaker 5: You know? It sounds like Neil wanted to get out
Speaker 5: of la Yeah. Yeah, uh no, I mean that's one
Speaker 5: of my favorites on the whole album. It really is
Speaker 5: arrangement and the where are they going now with that
Speaker 5: whole song country Girl?
Speaker 1: My question was going to be but you answered it
Speaker 1: basically about if you ever wanted to do like a
Speaker 1: Harrison Ford and just go to Montana. But I feel
Speaker 1: like we already kind of mentioned that, so I wanted
Speaker 1: to ask you this about it was there the notes
Speaker 1: right there. You know you're a musician, and speaking of
Speaker 1: this song being three different pieces, like, like, how much
Speaker 1: of being a musician do you bring into acting Like.
Speaker 5: Like it's I think it's easier to memorize because of
Speaker 5: music and the rhythm. There's a rhythm to playing music,
Speaker 5: and the same thing with memorizing or even doing you know,
Speaker 5: a dialogue. There you find them to the sentence that
Speaker 5: he wrote or she wrote. And if you don't have
Speaker 5: a sense of rhythm, a musical sense, I I it
Speaker 5: can get harder.
Speaker 1: Sure.
Speaker 5: I think I've worked with some people who didn't and
Speaker 5: they were just slower to get the lines down and so.
Speaker 5: And not to say that you have to have a
Speaker 5: musical background in order to be a good actor. You don't,
Speaker 5: but it's helped me. And I think it has to
Speaker 5: do with finding the rhythm of the dialogue, which is
Speaker 5: similar to finding the rhythm of you know, the song,
Speaker 5: the chords, the lyrics, the melody.
Speaker 1: I'm assuming certain certain like writers, like we talked about
Speaker 1: Sorkin finding that melody probably was like oh yeah, like
Speaker 1: I know this groove immediately, like he's written the groove
Speaker 1: for you. But then other people you probably have to go, okay,
Speaker 1: like you know this is this is a little different.
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe I'm it's gonna have to wait until I
Speaker 1: get in there with them and figure it out with
Speaker 1: the other actor, right, Yeah.
Speaker 5: Sometimes yeah, it's usually again when it's a single singular
Speaker 5: voice that you can hear it. It's like hearing a melody. Yeah.
Speaker 5: Richard Schiff, who was on West Wing, he came to
Speaker 5: see Mockingbird and I told him that all those West
Speaker 5: Wing guys were great. I went to school on those
Speaker 5: guys before I did Newsroom. And I said to him,
Speaker 5: I said, and doing sort and it's like music. He goes, no, No,
Speaker 5: it's melody. There's a melody to the dialogue that he writes.
Speaker 5: And he was right. It was more specific.
Speaker 1: Gop Man, this is awesome.
Speaker 5: All right.
Speaker 1: Final song, Let's get you out of here, dude. Last song,
Speaker 1: Thank you for all the time, dude. This has been
Speaker 1: such a gift to me, to Jeremiah, all the listeners,
Speaker 1: and please please come back. Final song on the record, everybody,
Speaker 1: I Love You Breezy. It's a soulful rocker. It's the
Speaker 1: only writing collaboration on the record, which is by Stills
Speaker 1: and Young. We already kind of mentioned it, and I
Speaker 1: feel like, you know, for everything we've talked about like this,
Speaker 1: this is a good way to kind of leave it where,
Speaker 1: you know, the opening message of carrying on This really
Speaker 1: leaves a record that has a real sense of struggle
Speaker 1: and poignancy, both in the subtext in the actual material,
Speaker 1: on a note of compassion and good spirits not to
Speaker 1: be morbid, but with so many losses recently, especially you know,
Speaker 1: some of the great musicians like sly Stone and Brian Wilson,
Speaker 1: and then of course Ozzy, which you know, just to
Speaker 1: be able to go out the way that he did
Speaker 1: and tell the world how much he loves him and
Speaker 1: raise all this money right before he dies. What message
Speaker 1: of love and compassion would you like to leave with
Speaker 1: this world? And I'll be so happy.
Speaker 5: There's a lot of darkness and a lot of fear,
Speaker 5: and a lot of craziness going on that no one
Speaker 5: seems to understand or how to deal with. And and
Speaker 5: I you know, as as an older actor, who's you know,
Speaker 5: a celebrity who you know nobody wants to hear from
Speaker 5: us anymore, okay, but you try to find something good
Speaker 5: to do every day for yourself or for someone else.
Speaker 5: It's it's Pollyanna, but it's you know, until we get
Speaker 5: you know, I hope straightened out about being able to
Speaker 5: deal with each other again instead of hating each other
Speaker 5: so much. You know, find something good to do for
Speaker 5: yourself or for somebody else. That's that's a start that
Speaker 5: you can do. Can you change the world, probably not,
Speaker 5: but can you do that every day? Yeah? Yeah, And
Speaker 5: so that's kind of all I'm doing at this.
Speaker 1: Point, and you're doing a great job of it, man,
Speaker 1: And I you know, I love that you brought up
Speaker 1: your dad and what he taught you. And when you
Speaker 1: have someone like that in your life that you can
Speaker 1: that shows you how to be empathetic and love your
Speaker 1: brother and help people. I mean, even on the smallest
Speaker 1: scale of you helping actors, I mean, that makes me
Speaker 1: just so happy to know that there are actors that
Speaker 1: I look at that are extremely successful, that you know,
Speaker 1: like that you put up on I don't want to say,
Speaker 1: you know, on a pedestal, but you're like, ah, Man,
Speaker 1: they might be dicks or assholes, and a lot of
Speaker 1: them that I've met have been very very sweet human beings.
Speaker 1: Some of them have been assholes, but it could just
Speaker 1: be that moment of you never know what they're dealing
Speaker 1: with in their day, but you know, to be able
Speaker 1: to talk to you and you know, hear your story
Speaker 1: and especially what you said about your father. Man, it's
Speaker 1: like you really had someone very beautiful to be able
Speaker 1: to like to teach you about things. And I think
Speaker 1: that is why, you know, even just you sitting down
Speaker 1: and speaking for an hour and forty mins, it's with us.
Speaker 1: It's like you didn't have to do this. So this
Speaker 1: has been incredible and I really appreciate for a time
Speaker 1: and and the message and the honesty, dude, and you know,
Speaker 1: and please do Gettysburn too.
Speaker 5: Please please do it. Man.
Speaker 1: I want to know.
Speaker 5: In and Out or Dumb and Dumber three where you know,
Speaker 5: as Jim said, they'll call it gum and gummer.
Speaker 1: You know, even giving us a second one was like really,
Speaker 1: I mean, dude, it was it was a Swan song.
Speaker 1: It was beautiful and it really was. And it's like, dude,
Speaker 1: it's like spinal tap doing another spinal tap. It's like
Speaker 1: we the people that love it, need it and and
Speaker 1: it's special. And and the things that you've done, whether
Speaker 1: it's the speech in the newsroom or or I remember
Speaker 1: seeing an Arachnophobia opening night, all dude, it's just like
Speaker 1: I said good night to luck Squid in the Whale
Speaker 1: that there was two of my favorite movies that summer,
Speaker 1: and it's just everything you keep doing. I'll keep watching
Speaker 1: it and please come back on. Man, this was this
Speaker 1: was so much fun. I can't think enough.
Speaker 5: I enjoyed it. Guys. Thank you.
Speaker 1: So we ask everybody these questions. Uh, we'll make them quick,
Speaker 1: but I got a new one I'm gonna throw in.
Speaker 1: First question, is favorite song on the record?
Speaker 5: Country girl?
Speaker 1: Nice? H What do you skip over? Is there anything
Speaker 1: you dislike on this album?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Our House nice? Yeah, dude, because it's the hit. I
Speaker 1: always say, sometimes you hear the hit too much. All right,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to filter this one. Can you fuck
Speaker 1: to this record?
Speaker 5: Sure?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 5: Sure, the rhythms change.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's all over the place, you know. I mean,
Speaker 1: teach your children while you're fucking is not gonna be.
Speaker 1: She's like, no, listen, it's a first date. But you know,
Speaker 1: just just ignore this. So we'll skip this track. We'll
Speaker 1: skip this track, all right. This is the This is
Speaker 1: the one I'm gonna throw in. Out of the four
Speaker 1: members of Crosbie, Stills, Nash, and Young ranked them and
Speaker 1: how much you love them. Starting at the lead, you
Speaker 1: and go top to bottom. You tell us which way
Speaker 1: you're going.
Speaker 5: Still's Neil Crosby, Nash and you know I love them all,
Speaker 5: but that's the order.
Speaker 1: That's the order, all right. What would be your elevator
Speaker 1: pitch to get someone to listen to this record that's
Speaker 1: never listened to it? How do you sum this record up?
Speaker 5: Remember the Beach Boys, remember the Beatles and all those harmonies,
Speaker 5: listen to this perfect?
Speaker 1: Yeah? I can't, I can't, I can't. You know, I
Speaker 1: think you said it perfect because I was going to
Speaker 1: mention that earlier when you were talking about some of
Speaker 1: the artists that you like, Like my dad loved the
Speaker 1: Four Freshmen, he loved those vocal groups. And you know,
Speaker 1: as I've gotten older, like falling in love with the
Speaker 1: Beach Boys, falling in love with the harmonies of the Beatles,
Speaker 1: even doing I was I just did Steely Dan Asia
Speaker 1: last night, and hearing Michael McDonald was stacked harmonies. There's
Speaker 1: something about harmonies, and there's something very beautiful about Crosby
Speaker 1: Stills Nashing Young of anybody, maybe next to the Beach
Speaker 1: Boys have done it better, and I am. You know,
Speaker 1: I don't know if we have any I don't think
Speaker 1: we have any other records on after this, but you know,
Speaker 1: to be able to go in order and and know
Speaker 1: what they put through this record. I think it's like
Speaker 1: it's four guys, you know, taking a break from being
Speaker 1: solo and making a sense of an individual solo record
Speaker 1: and then carrying on and.
Speaker 5: An extension of when you know the story of them
Speaker 5: being at Mama Cassa's house and Laurel Daniel, Yeah, and
Speaker 5: the three of them cross the visuals and Nash we're
Speaker 5: singing something and then Nash says, played again, played again,
Speaker 5: and then it happened. Everybody in the room heard it,
Speaker 5: and so deja vu is like and this is like,
Speaker 5: you know, a professional recording of that night in Laurel Canyon.
Speaker 1: That's so rad. Jeff, thank you so much for coming on, buddy,
Speaker 1: please come back. I know we've got some more Bruce,
Speaker 1: you know, which is one of our most fought after artists,
Speaker 1: but I would love to have you back for anything.
Speaker 1: We still got another one hundred and forty seven episodes left,
Speaker 1: so your call, man, And this was just a gift
Speaker 1: to all of us.
Speaker 5: So thank you, brother, all right, thank you appreciate it. Guys.
Speaker 1: What I tell you, What I tell you A gift
Speaker 1: from Emily the one and Only. Jeff Daniels. Follow him
Speaker 1: on Instagram. At Jeff Daniels Official and on Facebook at
Speaker 1: Jeff Daniels Music, and go to Jeff Daniels dot com
Speaker 1: for all things Jeff. Go to his website. Make sure
Speaker 1: you check out his music. Upcoming toward eights, he's gonna
Speaker 1: be in Michigan. Go see his shows. He's incredible. Now
Speaker 1: we just listened to nineteen seventies de Jaboo by Crossy, Stills,
Speaker 1: Nash and Young for new music Pick this week brought
Speaker 1: to you in part by Districal Kid Down I go
Speaker 1: by the man himself, Jeff Daniels. You can find links
Speaker 1: to the music on our website, the five hundred podcast
Speaker 1: dot com. And if you were in a band who
Speaker 1: were directly of those bone of these albums or artists
Speaker 1: and you want your music featured on the five hundred website,
Speaker 1: send your song to five hundred Podcasts at gmail dot com.
Speaker 1: Make sure you put the album and artists that influenced
Speaker 1: you in the subject. Next week, it's number one forty six,
Speaker 1: Whichjefferson here playing surlalistic. I can't even say that surrealistic.
Speaker 1: Pillar Pilla. It's my pilla from sixty seven. Great record.
Speaker 1: It's got white Rabbit, It's got someone to love. It's
Speaker 1: got everything you need. It's a fun record, and it's
Speaker 1: a good app Do your homework. We'll see you though.
Speaker 1: Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. Some towns on right, some.
Speaker 5: Towns roll Zonetown. I'm going soomtimes I'm going.
Speaker 3: For down.
Speaker 5: I go. Sometimes I'm good, Sometimes I'm bad. Sometimes I'm
Speaker 5: hanging over to things I never heard. Sometimes are lafe.
Speaker 5: Sometimes I cry. Sometimes I'm true.
Speaker 3: Sometimes I'm alive.
Speaker 1: Before I know.
Speaker 3: Down I go.
Speaker 4: Sometimes away, sometimes I lose.
Speaker 5: Sometimes I hear the mass of singing me the blues.
Speaker 1: Before I know.
Speaker 3: Go, I go. The five hundreds, keep it I please
Speaker 3: see for the three stations on the five hundry, the
Speaker 3: stile undry. You do things to f