1 00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:09,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Talking Politics, where I am your enlightened spirit guide, 2 00:00:09,320 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 1: helping you on your journey of discovery as we explore 3 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:19,599 Speaker 1: America's fascinating and ever changing political landscape. Just kidding, let's 4 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:23,079 Speaker 1: talk some trash. Seriously, this isn't the time for deep 5 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:27,640 Speaker 1: thoughts and intellectualism. As much as I love them, Hayek 6 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:30,520 Speaker 1: and John Locke can't help us now. Now is the 7 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:33,560 Speaker 1: time for outrage. It is the time to get focused. 8 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:37,239 Speaker 1: It's the time to save our democracy. In a bit, 9 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 1: i'll share my political hot take of the week, the 10 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:41,519 Speaker 1: thing in a mess of news that really got my attention. 11 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 1: But first my interview. Saving our democracy is complicated, isn't it. 12 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:50,479 Speaker 1: To make a meaningful change, you have to have some power, 13 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:53,239 Speaker 1: And to have some power, you have to win elections. 14 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:56,440 Speaker 1: Democrats lost the big election in twenty twenty four. We're 15 00:00:56,440 --> 00:00:59,639 Speaker 1: all living with the consequences of that loss. Whether it's 16 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:02,840 Speaker 1: the shut down fight where the courts or Trump's tariffs. 17 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:06,880 Speaker 1: There just isn't much Dems can do to stop Trump 18 00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:09,480 Speaker 1: or even hold them accountable. And even if you like 19 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:14,119 Speaker 1: what Trump is doing, that is so dangerous. We need 20 00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:16,759 Speaker 1: two strong parties. We need checks and balances. We need 21 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:22,280 Speaker 1: a president with some accountability because a president with absolute 22 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:27,479 Speaker 1: power will be corrupted absolutely. And as Trump grifts off 23 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:30,560 Speaker 1: the American people and cashes in on the presidency oversees 24 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:34,640 Speaker 1: here at home, people are hurting. Nearly half of US 25 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:38,559 Speaker 1: states are in an actual recession. US veterans have turned 26 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 1: to food donations during a government shutdown. Our soybean farmers 27 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:46,680 Speaker 1: have no one to sell soybeans do because of Trump's tariffs, 28 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 1: and it's just gonna get worse. So here's where I 29 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:53,160 Speaker 1: give my friends in the Democratic Party some tough love 30 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 1: and ask when are you going to get your shit together? 31 00:01:57,280 --> 00:02:00,400 Speaker 1: Help answer that very rude question. I'm happy to welcome 32 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:03,880 Speaker 1: one of the more outspoken and effective communicators in the 33 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:09,120 Speaker 1: Democratic Party, Congressman from California, Rocanna, to talk in politics. Welcome. 34 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 2: I don't think I've ever been introduced that way, with 35 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:13,520 Speaker 2: that kind of a provocative question. 36 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:16,400 Speaker 3: So I'll try to live up. 37 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 1: Listen, these are serious times. I don't have to tell you. 38 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 1: And as you know, I talk a lot about how 39 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:26,959 Speaker 1: bad Trump is and how the Republican Party is a disgrace. 40 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:28,680 Speaker 1: And I do that as a conservative, I do it 41 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:31,400 Speaker 1: as a former Republican but if we want Trump and 42 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:34,800 Speaker 1: trump Ism to be defeated, if we want it vanquished 43 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:36,640 Speaker 1: so that no one ever thinks it's a good idea 44 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:39,920 Speaker 1: again to elect a criminal with no concern for the 45 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:43,919 Speaker 1: constitution or the law. Someone's got to present an alternative view. 46 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:47,680 Speaker 1: Someone has to sell voters on a better way. Democrats 47 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:49,919 Speaker 1: did not meet that challenge last year. Are they ready 48 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 1: to meet it in the midterms, Congressman. 49 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:56,800 Speaker 2: We need to offer a vision of economic cope at 50 00:02:56,840 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 2: a time of economic pessimism. That to me is the 51 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:02,400 Speaker 2: central issue. Seventy percent of Americans don't believe in the 52 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 2: American dream. Donald Trump went around the country. He said, 53 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:07,919 Speaker 2: you've lost your means of making a living. They shipped 54 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 2: your jobs offshore, the cover up, delete screwed you. And 55 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 2: I'm going to bring back good jobs. And I'm going 56 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:19,919 Speaker 2: to cut prices. And what we need to now say is, Okay, 57 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:23,679 Speaker 2: you've now had almost six years of this five six 58 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 2: years of this experiment, the tariffs alone. Where are the 59 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 2: new factories. They're not here. Manufacturing's actually down. How have 60 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:34,079 Speaker 2: your prices? What's happened to your prices? They've actually gone up. 61 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 2: They're not going down. I mean your food is costing more. 62 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 2: Fruit's costing more, to coffee is costing more, and housing 63 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:42,240 Speaker 2: is costing more because. 64 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:44,280 Speaker 3: The input costs. Oh the way, it's costing more even 65 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:45,119 Speaker 3: for manufacturing. 66 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 2: But we have a vision of how we're going to 67 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 2: build economic independence and wealth across this country. I represent 68 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:54,000 Speaker 2: a district of almost eighteen trillion dollars a wealth, and 69 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 2: I'll tell you, with the technology revolution, here's a real 70 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 2: plan for what's going to it's going to take for 71 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:04,040 Speaker 2: every community to have jobs and high income and low 72 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 2: costs in the twenty first century. 73 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 3: I think that would win the election. 74 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:12,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think the idea that just opposing 75 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:17,200 Speaker 1: Trump and then simultaneously telling voters the economy is great, 76 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:21,919 Speaker 1: Actually your safe crime is down, illegal immigration isn't a 77 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:27,520 Speaker 1: crisis that obviously didn't work. So you need a positive agenda. 78 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 1: Vote for this, not against that. Do you think that 79 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:34,160 Speaker 1: Democrats as a party have that agenda in place and 80 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 1: can unite around it, whether they're progressives or moderates, to 81 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:43,479 Speaker 1: be a strong party getting into the midterms. 82 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 3: It's taking shape. I think for the midterms. 83 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:50,880 Speaker 2: It's saying, look, this idea of having blanket. 84 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 3: Tariffs have just raised prices. 85 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:54,960 Speaker 2: This idea of giving tax breaks to the billionaires in 86 00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:57,040 Speaker 2: my district that already have eighteen trillion does a well, 87 00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:01,800 Speaker 2: not what the country needs of having healthcare costs go up. 88 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 2: But for a Virginia West Virginia couple who's making eighty 89 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 2: five thousand dollars to pay forty eight thousand dollars more 90 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 2: in healthcare costs because the Republicans don't want to fund healthcare, 91 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 2: that's not helping lower people's cost a living. And what 92 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:18,240 Speaker 2: the Democrats will do on day one when you give 93 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 2: us back the House of Representatives, We're going to fight 94 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 2: to repeal the food terrifs to lower your grocery bills. 95 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 2: We're going to fight to expand healthcare so that your 96 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 2: premiums come down. We're going to fight to raise the 97 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 2: way so you have more money in your pockets. And 98 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:34,680 Speaker 2: we're going to actually offer a real vision for how 99 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:37,800 Speaker 2: young people and people are being displaced with these mass 100 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:41,200 Speaker 2: layoffs can have good paying jobs. I call it economic patriotism. 101 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:43,480 Speaker 2: We can go into it, but I think we have 102 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:47,839 Speaker 2: to run on this fundamental view that people are pessimistic 103 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:51,000 Speaker 2: about the American dream and their outcool and the Democratic 104 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:52,599 Speaker 2: Party is going to turn around, and I don't think 105 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 2: we've articulated that enough. We kind of had a triumphalism 106 00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:57,839 Speaker 2: of Biden economics. And I'm not saying you didn't do 107 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 2: good things, but you know, FDR and four was saying 108 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:01,600 Speaker 2: the country's. 109 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:02,960 Speaker 3: Terrible and it's all Herbert Hoover's fault. 110 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 2: We should not have, you know, a triumphalism when so 111 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:07,480 Speaker 2: many Americans are pessimistic. 112 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:09,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's an important point. And I think 113 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:12,159 Speaker 1: you're an excellent voice for the party. I've interviewed you 114 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:15,160 Speaker 1: a lot on TV, and I see your appearances a lot. 115 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 1: But do you think Democrats need some new messengers, especially 116 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:22,080 Speaker 1: considering how old some in leadership are. 117 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:23,280 Speaker 3: I do. 118 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 2: I mean, look, if I have a lot of respect 119 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:28,159 Speaker 2: for Chuck Schumerray, we wouldn't have gotten the chipsacked Ira 120 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:30,920 Speaker 2: bi part is an infrastructure don if it weren't him. 121 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 2: But like when you see him on television, does he 122 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:36,960 Speaker 2: inspire you to think this is the guy who's going 123 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:39,599 Speaker 2: to turn around the American dream for people? And no, No, 124 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:43,679 Speaker 2: And you know, there was a very reasonable person who's 125 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:45,640 Speaker 2: had a great career in public service. He said we 126 00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:47,680 Speaker 2: all need to know our cell by date and some 127 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 2: of the people have not gotten that message in. 128 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 3: The Democratic Party. Doesn't mean they weren't great voices. 129 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:55,719 Speaker 2: But you know, part of what allowed for Bernie's rise 130 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:58,240 Speaker 2: and Trump's rise is the Democratic Party became a little 131 00:06:58,279 --> 00:07:00,200 Speaker 2: bit of a club. Like if you didn't know the 132 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:02,880 Speaker 2: right people and if you weren't with the consultant class, 133 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:07,360 Speaker 2: you weren't part of the conversation. And that's what allowed 134 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 2: for this outsider voice to come in and guess what 135 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:11,960 Speaker 2: if the club had been the greatest generation in won 136 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:14,040 Speaker 2: World War Two, maybe we would have forgiven it. But 137 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:16,320 Speaker 2: the club presided over the decline of the American dream 138 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 2: and the hollowing out of industry. So it's time for 139 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:21,640 Speaker 2: them gracefully to step aside. I think if you've been 140 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:27,760 Speaker 2: an elective office for more than fifteen years, you probably 141 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:30,880 Speaker 2: aren't the right voices to lead us forward. 142 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 1: I think it's really brave to say it's obvious, I think, 143 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 1: but also pretty brave to say, I'm wondering if you're 144 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 1: looking at someone like Saron Mundani who's totally untested. Right, 145 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:43,400 Speaker 1: we'll see if he can pass the election test, but 146 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:47,440 Speaker 1: then there's like the governing test. But obviously, oh, listen, 147 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 1: I've been covering politics a long time. I haven't seen 148 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:53,440 Speaker 1: the kind of excitement around him since Obama in the 149 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 1: Democratic Party. And maybe it's not based on reality, but 150 00:07:57,480 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 1: it's there. Are you looking at someone like ron Mon 151 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:02,960 Speaker 1: Donnie and thinking this is where we need to go 152 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 1: more like this? 153 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 3: Well, I'm campaigning for him on Saturday. 154 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 2: We're doing a joint rally together in Queens and I 155 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:14,520 Speaker 2: think what he has done and exciting people is absolutely 156 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 2: key to the Democratic Party. 157 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:17,520 Speaker 3: Now we've got to be a big tent. 158 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 2: I've also capt paigd for Abigail Spanberger and Bennington Gap 159 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 2: and Mikey Cheryl m New Jersey, and I think that 160 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:28,920 Speaker 2: the Democratic Party needs to have the excitement and energy 161 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 2: that Doron's bringing and his focused on affordability it particularly 162 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:34,160 Speaker 2: in urban areas. But we also need to listen to 163 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 2: what Abigail Spanberger is saying about rural America and about 164 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:39,920 Speaker 2: factory towns, and we need to listen to Markey about 165 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 2: what suburban America is telling us. And you know, people say, well, 166 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:46,199 Speaker 2: how how can we do one or this or the other. 167 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:48,200 Speaker 2: I said, this is a big country and if you 168 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 2: want to lead the country, you've got to be a 169 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:53,880 Speaker 2: big tent, and I don't understand why Donald Trump was 170 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:56,200 Speaker 2: like cutting deals with Robert Kennedy to win the election. 171 00:08:56,520 --> 00:08:58,560 Speaker 2: I'm not saying we destantly have to go that far, 172 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:02,680 Speaker 2: but we can't. Slice is going to give us a majority? 173 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:05,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, a big tent, but the Republicans have led 174 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:09,960 Speaker 1: some very unseely people under the tent. Okay, maybe maybe 175 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:12,040 Speaker 1: not too big a tent, but yeah, I understand what 176 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:15,840 Speaker 1: you're saying. Who is the star of the party right now? 177 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:20,160 Speaker 2: Well, I think the star of the twenty twenty five 178 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:24,439 Speaker 2: elections is probably Mamnani just by the odds defying nature 179 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 2: of his win. 180 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:27,559 Speaker 1: Right now, I mean of the Democratic Party nationally, who's 181 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:27,960 Speaker 1: the star? 182 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:31,840 Speaker 3: I think that's to be seen. I mean, I really 183 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:33,680 Speaker 3: think that we have a lot of great talent. 184 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:37,640 Speaker 2: I mean we've got people in uh Andy, Basher and 185 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:40,160 Speaker 2: west More and Shapiro, and I mean we've got you know, 186 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:41,839 Speaker 2: I can go on Putaja and there's a lot of 187 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 2: great new voices. But I think that that they are 188 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:49,720 Speaker 2: going to have to articulate their division. I think Kakim 189 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:54,040 Speaker 2: is finding his footing and has really unified the caucus. 190 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:58,400 Speaker 2: I think his he really can arise to the moment. 191 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:00,760 Speaker 2: But I you know, people are afraid that we don't 192 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:03,440 Speaker 2: have a singular leader, but we also didn't have a 193 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:05,719 Speaker 2: singular leader after two thousand and four, and then we 194 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:08,760 Speaker 2: got Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, and then we didn't 195 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:11,240 Speaker 2: have a singular leader after nineteen eighty eight and we 196 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:13,880 Speaker 2: got Bill Clinton. So it's probably a good thing that 197 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 2: we don't have a singular leader because that means we're 198 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:19,240 Speaker 2: actually going to have an open fight for the future 199 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 2: leadership of this party. 200 00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 3: And we haven't had that fight. Can you believe it? 201 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:24,800 Speaker 3: We haven't had that since like two thousand and eight. 202 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:25,760 Speaker 1: It's true. 203 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 3: It's just been handed to the people. 204 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:32,199 Speaker 2: I think that would be the worst, worst mistake that 205 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 2: the Democrats can make. 206 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:37,200 Speaker 1: That's a good way to put it this shutdown battle. 207 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:40,240 Speaker 1: The losers in this shutdown battle are the American people. 208 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:44,319 Speaker 1: Goes without saying, But do you think that Democrats can 209 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 1: come out of this with anything? 210 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:52,360 Speaker 2: Depends how the plane lands right now. Obviously, the most 211 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 2: urgent thing is that sixteen million kids are going to 212 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:57,079 Speaker 2: go hungry the day after Halloween. Yeah, because of the 213 00:10:57,160 --> 00:11:00,599 Speaker 2: lack of snap benefits you have in sure instrument is 214 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:01,440 Speaker 2: literally spiking. 215 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 3: We're not talking about fifty percent. 216 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:06,360 Speaker 2: We're talking about thirty forty thousand dollars more for middle 217 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:10,040 Speaker 2: class families. And you've got people of federal jobs are 218 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:14,319 Speaker 2: not being paid for taking loans. So if the Democrats 219 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:20,600 Speaker 2: can get it back open and demand a vote on 220 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 2: the Affordable Care Act subsidies being increased, and make it 221 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:26,800 Speaker 2: very clear that we are pushing and fighting for them, 222 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:30,440 Speaker 2: and get some concession, then I think this would we 223 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:32,560 Speaker 2: would have held our ground. But if it ends up 224 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:36,400 Speaker 2: being that, you know, we just cave, then it's not 225 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:37,240 Speaker 2: going to be a good look. 226 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:40,320 Speaker 1: Before I let you go, we end with an exit 227 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:42,960 Speaker 1: poll where I ask you three questions of varying degrees 228 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:43,760 Speaker 1: of seriousness. 229 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:45,880 Speaker 3: Okay, I'll try not to flow them. 230 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:48,360 Speaker 1: No, you'll be fine. You're going to do fine. First questions, 231 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:50,680 Speaker 1: what's your favorite movie about politics? 232 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:57,439 Speaker 2: About politics? Probably the one with Jimmy Stewart. 233 00:11:57,280 --> 00:11:59,280 Speaker 1: Goes to Washington, to Washington. 234 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:00,440 Speaker 3: That's a n Icon one. 235 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:04,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean Just on the Waterfront is a good 236 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:06,200 Speaker 2: movie too. It's not directly about. 237 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:08,720 Speaker 1: Polist though, it's about labor. It's such a good movie. 238 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:11,080 Speaker 3: So those are probably two of them. 239 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:13,840 Speaker 1: Love on the Waterfront. Okay, what's someone on the other 240 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:15,559 Speaker 1: side of the isle. Who is someone on the other 241 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:18,960 Speaker 1: side of the aisle that you admire Thomas Massey. 242 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:21,520 Speaker 2: I mean not just because we worked on the Epstein files, 243 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:26,360 Speaker 2: but he's a thinker, and he's unusually principled. You actually 244 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:30,000 Speaker 2: know that he takes an independent position on issues. 245 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:33,959 Speaker 1: Yeah, clearly. And lastly, how do we save our democracy. 246 00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:38,560 Speaker 2: By offering a vision of the alternative that is compelling? 247 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:42,480 Speaker 2: You know, there was a book written about lenin a biography, 248 00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:46,520 Speaker 2: and there's a reason that totalitarian leaders go after universities 249 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:49,040 Speaker 2: and intellectuals first. And I never understood this I read 250 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:51,960 Speaker 2: this biography. It's because those are people offering ideas and 251 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 2: the biggest threat, Actually, it turns out to authoritarian leadership 252 00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:59,400 Speaker 2: is not just resistance, it's the it's the offering of 253 00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:02,880 Speaker 2: an alternative that captures people's imagination. 254 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:06,400 Speaker 3: Gandhi did that? Doacavel did that? You know? 255 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:09,120 Speaker 2: We need to offer an alternative that people say, you 256 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 2: know what, Yeah, that's something we get excited about. 257 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 3: Actually, that's what Zoran did. 258 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:14,680 Speaker 2: Whether you agree with him or not, he offered an 259 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:18,080 Speaker 2: alternative that excited people, and you see how powerful that 260 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:18,400 Speaker 2: can be. 261 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:21,719 Speaker 1: Well, Rocanna, thank you so much. For coming on. I 262 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:24,320 Speaker 1: really appreciate it, and I'm sure I'll see up on 263 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:25,680 Speaker 1: CNN or somewhere else soon. 264 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:27,960 Speaker 3: Thank you, thanks for having me. 265 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:33,120 Speaker 1: Yeah anytime. There was a great conversation with Congressman Rocanna, 266 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:35,680 Speaker 1: and when we come back my political hot take, don't 267 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 1: go anywhere. Welcome back to talking politics. Before I get 268 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 1: to my mini mono, I wanted to check in with 269 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:53,480 Speaker 1: my producer Lauren. Do we have any mail? 270 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:53,959 Speaker 3: Oh? 271 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:55,200 Speaker 4: My goodness, we sure do. 272 00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:58,240 Speaker 1: Oh tell me, Okay, I just is it happy or 273 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:01,040 Speaker 1: is it nice or not nice? This one is a 274 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:01,520 Speaker 1: good one. 275 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:04,360 Speaker 4: You know, we've had a little mixed bag sometimes, but yep, 276 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:08,679 Speaker 4: we're always happy to get mail. This one comes from 277 00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:11,840 Speaker 4: a listener named Paula. Okay, she wants to say thank 278 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:15,400 Speaker 4: you for the honest, transparent podcast. All you have said 279 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:19,520 Speaker 4: and told about Trump is truth and facts, not Fox crap. 280 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 4: Anyone with a heart and decency sees what is happening 281 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:25,840 Speaker 4: in our America and shame on all the greedy others 282 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:30,240 Speaker 4: to allow all this spiteful destruction. I'm glad I'm at 283 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:32,760 Speaker 4: the older part of my life, but not telling what 284 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:36,200 Speaker 4: my grandchildren will have to bear from this insane behavior. 285 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:40,120 Speaker 4: Of our president and our government. Please keep doing what 286 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 4: you do each day, and thank you. That feels nice. 287 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 1: You know that actually means a lot because two reasons. One, 288 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:53,200 Speaker 1: she's speaking to something that's very real, which is that 289 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:55,840 Speaker 1: like when you hear this stuff get defended a lot, 290 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 1: whether it's Fox or a myriad other places, you start 291 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:03,080 Speaker 1: to think you're great. Like what I'm seeing it, so 292 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 1: clearly this is so bad and dangerous, and yet lots 293 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:10,520 Speaker 1: of people in positions of power are defending it. You 294 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:12,640 Speaker 1: can think maybe it isn't that bad. No, it is. 295 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:16,040 Speaker 1: It is, And so I'm happy to be sort of 296 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 1: the you know, I don't know clear ride person who's 297 00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:23,160 Speaker 1: gonna tell you like it is. The Second part of 298 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 1: this is you're not always gonna like what I say, 299 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:29,160 Speaker 1: because because of this, you're not. And you know, I 300 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:31,720 Speaker 1: go up and down. I've got fans who'll be like, oh, 301 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:35,560 Speaker 1: I love when you tell the truth, unless I'm give 302 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:38,280 Speaker 1: I turf love to democrats, right or whatever it is. 303 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 1: So it's a double edged sword. But I'm always gonna 304 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:45,840 Speaker 1: I'm always gonna be honest. And letters like that are 305 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 1: really nice because I you know, I don't always get 306 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:53,320 Speaker 1: nice feedback and I don't do it for that, but 307 00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:55,440 Speaker 1: it is really nice to hear. So that's great and 308 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 1: thanks for tuning in, Paula. We love that. It is 309 00:15:57,560 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 1: very and you can email us at off the Cup 310 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:03,800 Speaker 1: Cup with two p's at gmail dot com and give 311 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 1: us your takes and listen. You can be critical too, 312 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not afraid of that. 313 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:12,520 Speaker 4: Yeah, we don't only need the positive stuff, but no, 314 00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 4: you know, taking your questions like se is here to 315 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:18,520 Speaker 4: answer questions if you have any, so send those in 316 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 4: as well. 317 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 1: One hundred percent ask me anything, Ask me anything. Okay, 318 00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:27,800 Speaker 1: onto the mini mono and it starts with two words, 319 00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:33,040 Speaker 1: Believe him. Last year, almost a year ago, on October 320 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 1: twenty fifth, twenty twenty four, the New York Times editorial 321 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:39,560 Speaker 1: board ran an op ed and they used a full 322 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:45,360 Speaker 1: page to print out in giant boldface all caps the 323 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 1: following missive. They wrote, Donald Trump says he will prosecute 324 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:57,960 Speaker 1: his enemies, order mass deportations, use soldiers against citizens, abandon allies, 325 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:04,040 Speaker 1: and play politics with disagns. Believe him now, as we know, 326 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:07,240 Speaker 1: much of this has already come true because he always 327 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:11,040 Speaker 1: tells us what he's going to do. We saw it 328 00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:14,879 Speaker 1: outlined in Project twenty twenty five, he talked about doing 329 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:18,399 Speaker 1: all of this stuff at his rallies. He told the 330 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:21,720 Speaker 1: media that he was going to do it. He wasn't 331 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 1: issuing empty threats. He wasn't throwing this stuff out there 332 00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:29,800 Speaker 1: as trial balloons to pull test their popularity. He was 333 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:32,040 Speaker 1: saying he was going to do them, because he was 334 00:17:32,119 --> 00:17:36,439 Speaker 1: going to do them. Five days after this New York 335 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 1: Times editorial was published, for example, Trump sued CBS for 336 00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:42,720 Speaker 1: its interview of Kamala Harris. A month after he won 337 00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:45,840 Speaker 1: his election, he sued the Des Moines Register for a 338 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:49,159 Speaker 1: poll he didn't like. He told voters, I will be 339 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:53,960 Speaker 1: your retribution, and true to his word, he prosecuted his enemies. 340 00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:59,080 Speaker 1: He's ordered mass deportations, he has used soldiers against US citizens. 341 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:05,280 Speaker 1: He's abandoned allies, he has played politics with disasters. And 342 00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:09,440 Speaker 1: yet there are still people who think he's bluffing when 343 00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:12,160 Speaker 1: he says he'd like to run for a third term. 344 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:14,640 Speaker 1: Now he's been saying it for months now. He makes 345 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:18,760 Speaker 1: it sound a little like he's joking, but he's not. 346 00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:21,879 Speaker 1: He's saying it because he wants to do it, and 347 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:25,360 Speaker 1: he wants to see how many people agree with him 348 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:27,440 Speaker 1: and how many people might help him along the way. 349 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:31,640 Speaker 1: This week, several Republicans have come out to assure us 350 00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:35,440 Speaker 1: Trump isn't running for a third term. Speaker Mike Johnson 351 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:40,280 Speaker 1: laughed it off as quote trolling and said he's talked 352 00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:44,040 Speaker 1: to Trump about the constitutional constrictions, as if that has 353 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:49,560 Speaker 1: ever stopped Trump before. Now, listen to what former Ohio 354 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:53,200 Speaker 1: governor and presidential candidate John Kasik had to say about 355 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:55,200 Speaker 1: it on MSNBC on Friday. 356 00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:59,000 Speaker 5: No, I mean, it's just nothing to take again. Taking 357 00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:03,040 Speaker 5: that seriously, it's no Listen. Have we had any states 358 00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:05,960 Speaker 5: trying to move to call a convention to change the amendment? 359 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:08,600 Speaker 5: Have we had any Republican governors do that. They're not 360 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:10,520 Speaker 5: even going to ask it, answer a question like that 361 00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:12,840 Speaker 5: because it's not going to happen. I mean, I hate 362 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:15,520 Speaker 5: to burst a balloon here because it's great headline and 363 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 5: it's a good clickbait and all that other stuff. 364 00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:22,919 Speaker 1: Oh the hubris. What country has Kaisak been living In 365 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:26,840 Speaker 1: the past year? Trump has broken every norm, He's violated 366 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:33,119 Speaker 1: the Constitution dozens of times, and he's had help. Unlike 367 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:36,440 Speaker 1: his first term where he'd get to one of these 368 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:39,920 Speaker 1: doors where he wanted to sort of abuse or overreach 369 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:43,000 Speaker 1: his power, and no one would be there to help 370 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:45,119 Speaker 1: him open it. In fact, someone was there to close 371 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:49,320 Speaker 1: it in his face. Mike Pence, for example, He's got 372 00:19:49,359 --> 00:19:53,840 Speaker 1: friends now, allies, accomplices who want to open those doors 373 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:57,440 Speaker 1: for him. They're doing it now. He's got Republicans in 374 00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:00,240 Speaker 1: the House and the Senate, both chambers telling him to 375 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:04,199 Speaker 1: go for a third term. Randy Fine, congressman from Florida, 376 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:08,080 Speaker 1: called for a repeal of the twenty second Amendment. Senator 377 00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:12,119 Speaker 1: Tommy Toberville of Alabama said whether Trump decides to quote 378 00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:16,000 Speaker 1: go around the Constitution would be up to him. No, 379 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:20,159 Speaker 1: it isn't. It definitely isn't. Look this isn't a troll. 380 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:24,439 Speaker 1: It isn't a joke. Just listen to Steve Bannon, the 381 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:26,400 Speaker 1: architect of Trump's first campaign. 382 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:29,239 Speaker 6: He's going to get a third term, so Trump twenty eight. 383 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:31,280 Speaker 6: Trump is going to be president of twenty eight. And 384 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:33,280 Speaker 6: people just want to get accommodated with that. 385 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:34,880 Speaker 1: So what about the twenty second Amendment? 386 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:38,080 Speaker 6: There's many different alternatives. At the appropriate time, will lay 387 00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:39,000 Speaker 6: out what the plan is. 388 00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:43,920 Speaker 1: Got it, they have a plan, They'll lay it out. 389 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:47,760 Speaker 1: I know Steve Bannon. I don't think he's bluffing either. 390 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:53,439 Speaker 1: This isn't like childish wish casting or manifesting. Bannon and 391 00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:55,800 Speaker 1: Trump aren't sitting at home with a vision board and 392 00:20:55,880 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 1: a glue stick. Okay, they are planning it. They're designed. 393 00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:04,200 Speaker 1: I am sure they're talking to lawyers. I'm sure they're 394 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:08,679 Speaker 1: talking to constitutional experts. They are talking to all the 395 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:11,719 Speaker 1: people they'd need to help them do it. They're getting 396 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:16,880 Speaker 1: all their ducks in a row, believe him. And while 397 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:20,959 Speaker 1: Democrats are letting Republicans steamroll them over this shutdown, they 398 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:26,440 Speaker 1: should be taking this threat very seriously. I'm not saying 399 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 1: this to scare you. I'm not saying that he will 400 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:31,600 Speaker 1: definitely get a third term. I'm saying he will try. 401 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:35,199 Speaker 1: He will try, just like he tried on January sixth, 402 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:39,280 Speaker 1: and if we aren't prepared, he might just get to 403 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:45,320 Speaker 1: break our democracy to do it, believe him. Okay, that's 404 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:47,399 Speaker 1: it for me this week. Thanks for tuning in too, 405 00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:52,600 Speaker 1: Talking Politics. Be sure to send us an email at 406 00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:55,680 Speaker 1: off the Cup at gmail dot com. Off the Cup 407 00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:59,159 Speaker 1: Cup with two p's at gmail dot com, Comments, questions, 408 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:02,440 Speaker 1: things you want us to tackle on Talking Politics. I'd 409 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:04,600 Speaker 1: love to hear it. 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