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Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to Cool People Did Cool Stuff. The

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Speaker 2: podcast is You're on episode four of it. You're on

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Speaker 2: episode four of it. I'm your host, Margaret Kildroy, My

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Speaker 2: guest is Katie, and the producer is Sophie and audio

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Speaker 2: engineers Danel and on Woman wrote the theme song, Hi everyone,

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Speaker 2: how are you doing so good?

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Speaker 3: Spent so many minutes since we last chatted, I know,

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Speaker 3: just absolute minutes of break where we talked about tea.

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Speaker 2: We did and it was nice. So everything is in

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Speaker 2: its Margaret knows how to speak, Margaret in place. Everything good,

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Speaker 2: Everything is all happening, Yeah, except everything's all fucked up,

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Speaker 2: much like my last attempt to say a sentence, because

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Speaker 2: the Easter Rising is about to happen, but it's about

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Speaker 2: to happen in a really messy way instead of a

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Speaker 2: nice easy way. I mean, they absolutely still would have lost,

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Speaker 2: but it would have been really interesting. So some cowards

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Speaker 2: and leader ship fucked the whole thing up, and people

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Speaker 2: driving at night without headlights fucked the whole thing up.

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Speaker 2: When in doubt where headlights, where headlights use headlights. People

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Speaker 2: are still gonna go, much like I'm gonna keep I'm

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Speaker 2: just as brave as they are because I'm continuing to talk. Yeah, persevere, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: because of all the fuckery and confusion caused by having

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Speaker 2: a cowardy thought he was in charge. Only twelve hundred

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Speaker 2: folks mustered on Monday morning in Dublin at this place

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Speaker 2: called Liberty Hall. Yeah, there's not enough to govern. No,

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Speaker 2: I mean, I guess depends on what you do with

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Speaker 2: the twel hundred people. But this shouldn't work well whatever

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Speaker 2: they made it, this place called Liberty Hall, which is

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Speaker 2: incidentally the first place that the Irish flag was flown publicly.

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Speaker 2: Again I distrust any history. This is first time. Six

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Speaker 2: days earlier, a sixteen year old girl flew the all

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Speaker 2: green flag, all green with Irish Republic painted in gold

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Speaker 2: on both sides. There were a bunch of flags that

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Speaker 2: flew during the rising, including that green one. Also the

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Speaker 2: Irish tricolor, the one that we have now, where green

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Speaker 2: represents the Catholics, orange represents the Protestants and white represents

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Speaker 2: a lasting truce between the two. This flag actually has

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Speaker 2: been around since eighteen forty eight. It was designed by

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Speaker 2: French women who were sympathetic to Irish nationalism because the

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Speaker 2: Irish were all about the French revolution right, Everyone who

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Speaker 2: wanted to not have a monarch anymore was like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: the French Revolutionist seems pretty fucking cool, am I right?

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Speaker 2: And so some French women were like, all right, we'll

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Speaker 2: do it to your specs and they were like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: we want like unity between the Protestants and the Catholics,

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Speaker 2: which is fucking cool. And during the Easter Rising, that's

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Speaker 2: when it became the flag of the Irish Republic. They

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Speaker 2: flew both of those flags. They also flew the starry

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Speaker 2: plow I talked about last time, and then also the

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Speaker 2: harp on the green flag, which is a way older

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Speaker 2: Irish flag. Lots of flag options, yes, Ireland has had

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Speaker 2: a lot of uprisings, so it has a lot of

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Speaker 2: options available to it. Twelve hundred people muster the Irish Volunteers,

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Speaker 2: the Irish Citizen Army and the Kumin Navan, the all

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Speaker 2: women's unit, and of course there was also women in

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Speaker 2: the Irish Citizen Army. About three hundred women participated in

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Speaker 2: the rising. I've read, but I'm unsure that if this

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Speaker 2: is of the original twelve hundred, or if this includes

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Speaker 2: the people who joined later in the week. Overall, the

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Speaker 2: women in the Citizen Army were trained to fight those

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Speaker 2: in koumen Nivan, were there as auxiliaries to like cook

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Speaker 2: and record things and run messages and.

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Speaker 4: All of that.

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Speaker 2: But to be honest, I'm starting to doubt that this

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Speaker 2: is as clear cut as most people represent it, because, yeah,

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Speaker 2: like there's this one story of the secretary who shows

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Speaker 2: up with a portable typewriter and a handgun, and a

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Speaker 2: lot of people I think sometimes like if there was

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Speaker 2: a woman, they were like, oh, they were in kumen Nivan,

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Speaker 2: instead of it being like, no, they were separate. They

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Speaker 2: were with the citizen Army. But then whatever, it's not

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Speaker 2: as clear cut as anyone's presenting it. Armed with Mauser rifles, shotguns, revolvers,

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Speaker 2: and the occasional semi auto pistol. What about they actually

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Speaker 2: had enough guns for people at the beginning, because they

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Speaker 2: didn't have nearly as enough people, right, Yeah, so they

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Speaker 2: kind of had they had enough guns.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: They fanned out through the city center and took key positions,

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Speaker 2: barricading themselves into buildings and barricading the streets. There's like

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Speaker 2: one scene early on where the Countess and one hundred

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Speaker 2: other people are just digging up the streets to build barricades.

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Speaker 2: That's my girl, I know, I know, towering over everyone else.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: James Connolly's son Roderick was there with his father. He

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Speaker 2: was only fifteen years old. His daughter Nora was there too.

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Speaker 2: She was the one who was like, yo, are we

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Speaker 2: doing this? You know? But she was there at the

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Speaker 2: very beginning. But then she was sent up north to

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Speaker 2: rally more women to come down from the north of

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Speaker 2: the country. And they only made it back after the

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Speaker 2: later surrender six days later.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. It takes time to go travel back then too.

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Speaker 3: I know.

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Speaker 2: And then they like ran into problems of having a

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Speaker 2: circumerces they did, they had adventures. Yeah, four hundred rebels

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Speaker 2: took the Post Office the GPO, as their headquarters for

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Speaker 2: the rising, and then Pierce stood outside and proclaimed the

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Speaker 2: Irish Republic, which is fucking cool. They passed out their

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Speaker 2: proclamation throughout the city, which was printed by a woman typesetter.

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Speaker 2: And I'm not going to read the whole thing, but

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Speaker 2: here's some pretty sick parts of it. Irishmen and Irish

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Speaker 2: women in the name of God and the dead generations

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Speaker 2: from which she receives her old tradition of nationhood Ireland

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Speaker 2: through us summons her children to her flag and strikes

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Speaker 2: for her freedom. We declare the right of the people

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Speaker 2: of Ireland to the ownership of Ireland. The Republic guarantees

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Speaker 2: religious and civil liberty, equal rights and equal opportunities to

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Speaker 2: all its citizens, cherishing all the children of the nation

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Speaker 2: equally and oblivious to the differences carefully fostered by an

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Speaker 2: alien government which have divided a minority from the majority

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Speaker 2: in the past.

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Speaker 4: Sounds pretty good to me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. The fact that they came out the gate being like,

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Speaker 2: this isn't a weird Catholic versus Protestant thing that divide

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Speaker 2: was given to us by our colonial masters. They also

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Speaker 2: pioneered Irish radio. The first ever radio broadcast in Ireland

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Speaker 2: was them using Morse Code to announce the Irish Republic

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Speaker 2: because all the like phone lines and shit were cut,

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Speaker 2: you know, and it was sent out in Morse Code.

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Speaker 2: And it involves someone climbing up to a radio, climbing

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Speaker 2: up a radio antenna in the middle of this thing

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Speaker 2: with like their snipers everywhere to fix the radio antenna

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Speaker 2: to broadcast this. They could have taken Dublin Castle, but

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Speaker 2: they didn't know that they could have taken Dublin Castle.

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Speaker 2: They like showed up and shot the cop who was

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Speaker 2: hanging outside, and then they didn't press too far in

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Speaker 2: because they were like, oh fuck, we think it's full

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Speaker 2: of soldiers. There were barely any soldiers there, and they

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Speaker 2: absolutely could have taken it. Lots of armchair generals in

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Speaker 2: the Intervening century have suggested that they should have done

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Speaker 2: this or that strategically, but overall of it probably wouldn't

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Speaker 2: better or if they take it Dublin Castle. Some of

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Speaker 2: the rebels were sick and or disabled. One person, that

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Speaker 2: guy with tuberculosis Plunket, had like an open wound on

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Speaker 2: his neck from his illness and was probably about to die.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, was he out there spreading it around?

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Speaker 2: It is contagious. Yeah, yeah, but people don't really understand

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Speaker 2: that super.

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Speaker 4: Well don't Okay, Well, anyway, I was.

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Speaker 2: Going with bravery here, but now I do have to

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Speaker 2: think about it from that point of view.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's hard to forget the last few years we

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Speaker 4: just lived through.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, no, totally. There's another one of the rebels,

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Speaker 2: at least one more, I think, maybe more than another

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Speaker 2: who shows up to the general muster is so sick

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Speaker 2: or like disabled in a way where he can't necessarily

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Speaker 2: walk quickly, so unlets the rest of the group move

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Speaker 2: ahead while he slowly made his way to his position,

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Speaker 2: and including these just because I think that disability is

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Speaker 2: not always included.

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Speaker 4: When absolutely it's important and it is brave. Yeah, it

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Speaker 4: is very brave to come out and when you don't

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Speaker 4: have the same mobility when you yeah.

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Speaker 2: Right, and it's just like, ye people have this, Oh,

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Speaker 2: these good strong men and I'm like, this is a

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Speaker 2: bunch of weirdos who got together to do this thing,

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Speaker 2: you know. And the first person to die in the

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Speaker 2: rising was a civilian, a woman named Margaret Koch. A

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Speaker 2: rebel named Dan McCarthy had just been shot and she

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Speaker 2: was a nurse and she's in full nurse's uniform and

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Speaker 2: she's like, well, I'm clearly a civilian. I'm in full

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Speaker 2: nurse's uniform. So she runs to go save him, and

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Speaker 2: the British are like, yeah, we don't care, and they

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Speaker 2: shoot her and they killer well. The first fighter killed

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Speaker 2: was a rebel and he was an actor in the

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Speaker 2: Citizen Army. His name was Sean Connolly and he led

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Speaker 2: the takeover of City Hall. He was on the roof

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Speaker 2: readying to raise the Irish flag when a sniper took

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Speaker 2: him down. And that's the kind of thing that's like

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Speaker 2: so narrative that it feels a little convenient, But there

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Speaker 2: is an eyewitness who testifies this. I've also read that

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Speaker 2: the cop outside the Palace was the first person to

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Speaker 2: die in the rising, And I don't know how everyone

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Speaker 2: knows how I feel about first.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's almost impossible to.

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Speaker 2: Uh, yeah, someone probably knows. But I have read multiple

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Speaker 2: things that contradict each other, and I'm not right in dissertation.

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Speaker 2: The rebels didn't get nearly as many positions as they

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Speaker 2: would have liked because the don't show up lads order

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Speaker 2: had happened, you know, and an awful lot of people

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Speaker 2: were at home, unsure what they were supposed to be doing.

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Speaker 2: The chief medical officer of the rising was a woman

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Speaker 2: named doctor Kathleen Lynn, who had spent this past several

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Speaker 2: years teaching combat medicine to the rebels. And she's at

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Speaker 2: the General Post Office, and it's like not just is

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Speaker 2: coordinating care and providing care. Despite the low turnout of rebels,

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Speaker 2: the British forces were caught off guard and whenever soldiers

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Speaker 2: tried to investigate, they got shot, you know, And so

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Speaker 2: at one point the first day. There's all of these

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Speaker 2: different stories of the Countess and what she got up to. Right,

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Speaker 2: there's this version where she shot a cop, but then

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Speaker 2: there's another version where she later says, I put my

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Speaker 2: gun into his belly, but I knew him, so I

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Speaker 2: couldn't pull the trigger. And then there's another version that

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Speaker 2: was at one point there's an eyewitness of this one.

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Speaker 2: They're like trying to hold this place in the streets,

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Speaker 2: and all these soldiers come running around the corner, and

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Speaker 2: so she shoulders her pistol. They use these these mousers,

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Speaker 2: these long barreled pistols where the holster could become a

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Speaker 2: shoulder stock. They're kind of like cool. Oh, they guy

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Speaker 2: called broom handle guns. Anyway, she shoulders her pistol, one

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Speaker 2: of the like three pistols she brought with her. There's

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Speaker 2: a benefit to being the rich lady in the war, yeah,

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Speaker 2: although all with different whatever. I'm not going to get

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Speaker 2: in the gun nerd stuff. Anyway, she shoots at or

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Speaker 2: shoots a small squadron of soldiers and sends them off

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Speaker 2: running and possibly shot two of them, but looting breaks

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Speaker 2: out across the city. Once all this starts happening because

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Speaker 2: starving people are like, you know, it'd be pretty cool

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Speaker 2: if we had that stuff that we can now have

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Speaker 2: because the police are busy, right, and they were really

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Speaker 2: classy about it. Women were like stealing fans, dresses and

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Speaker 2: jewelry and then like parading around in the streets, you know,

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Speaker 2: and cops tried to stop them, but the looters drove

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Speaker 2: them off by the classic method of shooting at the police.

218
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Speaker 4: Yeah, and then they scattered. Yeah.

219
00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:19,200
Speaker 2: Yeah. And everyone is like, like a lot of historians,

220
00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:22,360
Speaker 2: including leftist or whatever, they're like, oh no, there was looting,

221
00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:24,480
Speaker 2: as if this was like like there was like fires

222
00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:28,200
Speaker 2: in the city and that's bad, right, But I'm convinced

223
00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:31,559
Speaker 2: the looters were another column in the struggle, as the uncontrollables.

224
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Speaker 3: We're just so out there, so in chaos, making it

225
00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:39,760
Speaker 3: harder for the you know, everyone to respond to the rebellion.

226
00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:42,680
Speaker 4: It's good, Yeah, it's good, actually, you see.

227
00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:46,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, And the British government declared marshal law the next day,

228
00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:49,360
Speaker 2: which I'm surprised it took them that long. Honestly, get

229
00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:53,040
Speaker 2: your shit together. Some of the rebellion was hindered by

230
00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:56,320
Speaker 2: outright misogyny from the rebels. There's this guy di Valera,

231
00:11:56,400 --> 00:11:58,720
Speaker 2: who will talk more about him later, but he actually

232
00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:00,760
Speaker 2: goes on to be the like one the longest serving

233
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Speaker 2: politicians in Irish history.

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Speaker 4: Of course he does, I know.

235
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Speaker 2: And he just like there's like a bunch of women

236
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Speaker 2: who are ready to fight, and you're like, what do

237
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Speaker 2: we do? And he's like, I'm not giving orders to

238
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Speaker 2: women and then leaves dumb, dumb. Yeah, fuck him. Although

239
00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:18,079
Speaker 2: it's funny because he's on the oh god, Irish politics

240
00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:19,440
Speaker 2: so complicated.

241
00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:20,160
Speaker 4: It's messy, it's messy.

242
00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:22,240
Speaker 2: He's on the right side of the civil war or

243
00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:25,679
Speaker 2: the wrong side of the civil opinion whatever. So meanwhile

244
00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:28,280
Speaker 2: in Galway, on the other side of the country, on

245
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Speaker 2: the west coast of Ireland, in the Gallatact, the part

246
00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:35,000
Speaker 2: that is still Irish speaking had never been fully colonized

247
00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:38,680
Speaker 2: or anglicized. Five hundred volunteers show up armed with like

248
00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:42,000
Speaker 2: fuck all, they did not get the rifles and they're

249
00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:43,640
Speaker 2: trying to do a rising of their own with like

250
00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:47,440
Speaker 2: shotguns and pistols and nothing. But they've been even more

251
00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:50,320
Speaker 2: fucked by the stand down order because the actually just kidding,

252
00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:54,079
Speaker 2: please rise order had a harder time reaching them. Yeah,

253
00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:56,440
Speaker 2: their commander had been sent over from Dublin, and he

254
00:12:56,559 --> 00:12:58,840
Speaker 2: was like, this rising is about kicking the English out,

255
00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:02,720
Speaker 2: But the rank and file of the Galway Rising these

256
00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:05,920
Speaker 2: are like rural poor as far as I can tell overall.

257
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Speaker 2: And this is the side that my uncle fought in,

258
00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:10,800
Speaker 2: or like several of my uncles fought in. They were

259
00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:14,640
Speaker 2: pretty convinced that it was about land distribution. They were like, no,

260
00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:18,440
Speaker 2: the problem is landlords, and I guess that's attached to England,

261
00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:21,840
Speaker 2: you know. And so they were like they wanted to

262
00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:25,600
Speaker 2: also in addition to targeting like British colonial outposts, they

263
00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:27,280
Speaker 2: were like, we're going to target the largest states in

264
00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:31,680
Speaker 2: the landlords, including ostensible nationalists, because the whole point of

265
00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:36,000
Speaker 2: this is to be free, you know. But they barely

266
00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:38,640
Speaker 2: had any rifles. They managed to blow up a bridge,

267
00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:41,400
Speaker 2: capture some officers, and get into one gunfight, but pretty

268
00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:44,560
Speaker 2: soon they dispersed and then a lot of them got arrested.

269
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Speaker 2: And at some point along the way, my uncle got

270
00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:49,079
Speaker 2: shot in the leg, or he got shot in one

271
00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:50,840
Speaker 2: of the later wars. And my family was wrong when

272
00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:52,640
Speaker 2: they told him he was shot in the rising, because

273
00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:53,800
Speaker 2: I don't.

274
00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:56,280
Speaker 4: Know when they told him, did he not know.

275
00:13:56,720 --> 00:13:58,360
Speaker 2: So I got told he when I met him, was

276
00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:00,880
Speaker 2: one hundred years old, and he wasn't oh double communicative.

277
00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:03,320
Speaker 2: I got told by the Irish family that he had

278
00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:06,000
Speaker 2: been shot in the rising. That was like filtered through

279
00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:08,079
Speaker 2: some people who might not have known the difference between

280
00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:10,360
Speaker 2: that the Rising and the War of Independence in the

281
00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:12,319
Speaker 2: Civil War that like nerds like me know about.

282
00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:15,520
Speaker 3: And he's one hundred years old and not necessarily again

283
00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:19,480
Speaker 3: I got ya, Yeah, totally. The fighting in Dublin back

284
00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:21,520
Speaker 3: and now we're back over the East Coast. I just

285
00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:23,200
Speaker 3: had to include Galway because of my family and because

286
00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:24,720
Speaker 3: also because it gets left out and there's actually a

287
00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:26,280
Speaker 3: bunch of other places that the Rising happened.

288
00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:27,200
Speaker 4: I love Galway.

289
00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:29,160
Speaker 2: I know it's the only place in Ireland I have

290
00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:29,640
Speaker 2: actually been.

291
00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:30,680
Speaker 4: But magical.

292
00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:35,600
Speaker 2: The fighting in Dublin went on for six days, but

293
00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:39,320
Speaker 2: the rebels didn't take the railways, and thousands of reinforcements

294
00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:43,560
Speaker 2: from England flooded in over the rails. Sixteen thousand soldiers

295
00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:45,960
Speaker 2: or twenty thousand, depending on what you read. Some of

296
00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:49,840
Speaker 2: them were fresh from the Western Front of World War One.

297
00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:53,680
Speaker 2: Since they're World War One soldiers, they do what World

298
00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:59,040
Speaker 2: War One soldiers do They just fucking shelled everything. Yeah,

299
00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:02,720
Speaker 2: in artillery, there is no problem that a grenade or

300
00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:06,840
Speaker 2: a mortar round won't fix. And they outnumbered the rebels

301
00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:09,200
Speaker 2: about ten to one, maybe more.

302
00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:10,800
Speaker 4: It's not good numbers.

303
00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:15,760
Speaker 2: No, Connolly and the other leaders. They had miscalculated. They'd

304
00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:18,560
Speaker 2: assumed that the English wouldn't want to destroy their own city.

305
00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:23,479
Speaker 2: Dublin was like the second city of the Empire, you know. Yeah,

306
00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:25,680
Speaker 2: at the end of it. They underestimated the British Crown's

307
00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:26,640
Speaker 2: appetite for destruction.

308
00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:29,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, colonial.

309
00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:31,040
Speaker 2: Forces like whatever, we'll just make you poor people build

310
00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:34,000
Speaker 2: it for us again. Right, we don't live there, we

311
00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:39,080
Speaker 2: don't care exactly. In the post office, the headquarters, and

312
00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:41,240
Speaker 2: there's this woman there who is feeding everyone. And her

313
00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:45,840
Speaker 2: name was Nellie Gifford, and she's fucking cool. She's a socialist,

314
00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:48,720
Speaker 2: she's a friend of the countess. She'd showed up armed

315
00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:51,080
Speaker 2: and ready to fight, but she noticed that no one

316
00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:55,320
Speaker 2: had taken care of the food. So she used her

317
00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:58,000
Speaker 2: gun in the old fashioned way to procure food for everyone.

318
00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:02,160
Speaker 2: She waylaid food transport vans and got them to donate

319
00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:02,880
Speaker 2: to the cause.

320
00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:04,320
Speaker 4: Very cool.

321
00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:07,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then she cooked it for everyone, and then

322
00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:10,240
Speaker 2: she went around to shopkeepers to convince them to donate

323
00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:13,680
Speaker 2: as well. And I think it's a mix of robbed

324
00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:14,400
Speaker 2: and convinced.

325
00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:19,240
Speaker 3: I'm like convinced how wielding her gun, I feel like

326
00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:22,000
Speaker 3: picking things up, saying you want to donate, don't you?

327
00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:22,920
Speaker 4: I know you do?

328
00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:26,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, you care about the cause, strong armed them. Sure

329
00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:29,240
Speaker 2: are some nice windows in here, right to see them broken?

330
00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:31,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, shame for them to get blown out.

331
00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:35,800
Speaker 2: Yeah. But one of the things that actually people argue

332
00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:38,360
Speaker 2: a lot about is how popular the Easter Rising was

333
00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:42,760
Speaker 2: or wasn't at the time. The primary narrative is that

334
00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:46,440
Speaker 2: it was not popular and that the average Irish person

335
00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:50,640
Speaker 2: supported home rule kind of but was loyal and wanted

336
00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:52,480
Speaker 2: the war to be won and wanted nothing to do

337
00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:55,840
Speaker 2: with any of this. However, there's a lot of counter

338
00:16:56,040 --> 00:17:01,000
Speaker 2: arguments to that, and primarily from the working class and

339
00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:03,800
Speaker 2: the poor people were like, no, we're actually into this,

340
00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:06,720
Speaker 2: and so there was a lot of support as well.

341
00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:09,439
Speaker 2: So I think of what it was is people were divided. Yeah.

342
00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:12,760
Speaker 2: And one of the reasons that Nellie give her to

343
00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:16,160
Speaker 2: so interesting to me is that so she single handedly

344
00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:18,560
Speaker 2: keeps morale up at the post office because they're eating

345
00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:22,879
Speaker 2: well for a while, right, And it's easy as a

346
00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:25,280
Speaker 2: feminist to be like, hey, women didn't just cook, they fought.

347
00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:29,440
Speaker 2: But it's also important, like we are joining the patriarchy

348
00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:32,159
Speaker 2: and undervaluing traditional women's roles like cooking and caring for

349
00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:34,760
Speaker 2: the wounded. If we don't hold that as equal.

350
00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:35,960
Speaker 4: Thank you. I think it's so important.

351
00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:39,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, that to me is completely under my the whole

352
00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:43,080
Speaker 3: idea of feminism. To me, it's like, it's not that

353
00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:46,399
Speaker 3: those roles are not important, they're vital.

354
00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:49,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, it's.

355
00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:52,040
Speaker 4: Respected as equally important because it is.

356
00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:56,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, and Nelly fucking Rules was ready for whatever needed doing.

357
00:17:56,960 --> 00:17:59,760
Speaker 2: If what needed doing was shooting, she was there to shoot.

358
00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:02,720
Speaker 2: But what she realized what needed doing was feeding people.

359
00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:06,480
Speaker 2: She was there to feed. And she was an actress

360
00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:10,160
Speaker 2: in her mid thirties. She was fiercely Protestant. Okay, all

361
00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:12,960
Speaker 2: her brothers, it's like, whenever you see this, like all

362
00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:14,879
Speaker 2: our brothers did this, all our sisters did this. She

363
00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:17,119
Speaker 2: had like three or four of each, I think. Yeah,

364
00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:20,520
Speaker 2: different time, different place. All her brothers had stayed loyal

365
00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:24,240
Speaker 2: to the crown, but all of her sisters were revolutionaries. Yeah,

366
00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:27,640
Speaker 2: all of her sisters except her eventually conferred to Catholicism

367
00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:30,399
Speaker 2: in order to marry Catholics who were in the revolutionary ranks.

368
00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:33,760
Speaker 2: And she was like, nah, I'm good as a Protestant.

369
00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:37,400
Speaker 2: I just stayed Protestant. She lived to be fucking ninety.

370
00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:39,840
Speaker 2: She spent the rest of her life fighting for the

371
00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:43,600
Speaker 2: rights of prisoners and looking after stray cats and dogs. Yes,

372
00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:47,880
Speaker 2: fucking sounds incredible. Yeah, she sounds like my kind of people.

373
00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:52,360
Speaker 2: I know, I know. And so the Rising, it is

374
00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:56,399
Speaker 2: not going well. The British just massacred civilians. They just

375
00:18:56,440 --> 00:18:59,080
Speaker 2: would blow up buildings and shit, know, like you better

376
00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:03,760
Speaker 2: get out of here. Slowly, the British took rebel positions

377
00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:08,359
Speaker 2: one after the other. However, at Mount Street Bridge, seventeen

378
00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:12,040
Speaker 2: rebels held back more than one thousand British soldiers and

379
00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:15,320
Speaker 2: in the process shot two hundred and forty of the

380
00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:19,840
Speaker 2: British soldiers whoa only four of the seventeen rebels who

381
00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:23,600
Speaker 2: held this bridge died. Wow, and that group of seventeen

382
00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:26,160
Speaker 2: inflicted two thirds of the casualties that the British took

383
00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:27,160
Speaker 2: for the entire week.

384
00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:30,800
Speaker 4: All right, those are some impressive numbers right there. Yeah, yeah,

385
00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:34,960
Speaker 4: well done. Well done, lads, well done. Yeah.

386
00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:37,240
Speaker 2: And what's funny is like I've also read analyses that

387
00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:40,920
Speaker 2: was like, if the British hadn't had actually cared about

388
00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:42,679
Speaker 2: shit the higher ups, they would have just taken a

389
00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:44,280
Speaker 2: different bridge to get where they were going.

390
00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:44,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was.

391
00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:47,560
Speaker 2: But the leaders don't care. They're like, well, just keep

392
00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:49,720
Speaker 2: sending dudes until we win.

393
00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:51,040
Speaker 4: We'll wear them down.

394
00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:53,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, we outnumbered them ten to one. Why do we

395
00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:56,040
Speaker 2: care what happens to nine of our ten guys? You

396
00:19:56,080 --> 00:20:00,879
Speaker 2: know one of the founders. Actually, before we tell you

397
00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:03,320
Speaker 2: about one of the founders, the British Volunteer, I would

398
00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:06,879
Speaker 2: like to tell you about the foundations of our society,

399
00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:12,640
Speaker 2: which is people using media to sell stuff.

400
00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:15,320
Speaker 4: Such an important point, Margaret, really good.

401
00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:20,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I definitely would love to learn more about that.

402
00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:33,560
Speaker 2: Oh you're in luck. Here they are and we're back.

403
00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:37,159
Speaker 2: We're back. Okay. So one of the founders of the

404
00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:41,960
Speaker 2: Irish Volunteers was this guy who was named the over

405
00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:44,679
Speaker 2: Hilly And what kind of bad dos do you have

406
00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:47,159
Speaker 2: to be for your name to be the instead of Michael?

407
00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:48,879
Speaker 2: Like he was born Michael, but he was like, I

408
00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:53,040
Speaker 2: am the And this was part of his de anglicization

409
00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:58,920
Speaker 2: because the head of a clan was called them like, oh,

410
00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:02,159
Speaker 2: which over do you mean? Oh? I mean the oraheely

411
00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:08,880
Speaker 2: mm hmm. And this guy, he's interesting to me. He

412
00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:11,679
Speaker 2: was director of arms for the volunteers, and he had

413
00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:14,960
Speaker 2: overseen a lot of the military training. But he'd also

414
00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:19,119
Speaker 2: been completely against the rising. He had been part of

415
00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:22,760
Speaker 2: the tell people not to rise plan. But when he

416
00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:25,840
Speaker 2: found out it was gonna happen anyway, he was like,

417
00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:30,040
Speaker 2: and he said, and again, they don't miss with their quotes,

418
00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:33,560
Speaker 2: at least poetically. They don't miss with their quotes. He said,

419
00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:38,880
Speaker 2: it is madness, but it is glorious madness. All right,

420
00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:42,560
Speaker 2: he's ready to go, so he joins in. Yeah, he

421
00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:44,879
Speaker 2: or his friends set his own car on fire in

422
00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:46,639
Speaker 2: the street at a barricade. At one point, he like

423
00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:48,560
Speaker 2: brings his car. He's like, I think he's kind of rich.

424
00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:50,440
Speaker 2: He like shows up and he like has his car

425
00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:51,680
Speaker 2: and they use it for a bunch of stuff and

426
00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:52,879
Speaker 2: then they're like, all right, we don with the car

427
00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:56,879
Speaker 2: set it on fire now, yeah, and like, none of

428
00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:58,679
Speaker 2: these people think they're going to survive. I think this

429
00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:00,800
Speaker 2: is the guy who like he like shit makes Connolly's

430
00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:02,320
Speaker 2: hand and is like, all right, I'll see you later,

431
00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:05,320
Speaker 2: and James Connolly looks at me because I'm never going

432
00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:09,399
Speaker 2: to see you again. Yeah, that happened with someone, and

433
00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:12,880
Speaker 2: I think it was the o'reheely. I'll see you in hell, motherfucker.

434
00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:13,600
Speaker 4: Yeah.

435
00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:15,440
Speaker 2: Like, but but you know his equals right, you know

436
00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:18,360
Speaker 2: we're both gonna do it. Yeah, see you heaven, motherfucker.

437
00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:20,920
Speaker 4: Yeah.

438
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:25,320
Speaker 2: And on Friday, the o'raheely leads a charge through the

439
00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:29,640
Speaker 2: street and he's gunned down, and then he survives for

440
00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:33,360
Speaker 2: like twenty one hours, bleeding to death in a doorway.

441
00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:37,600
Speaker 2: He writes a letter to his wife while he is

442
00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:41,520
Speaker 2: bleeding to death in the doorway, and it's I'm gonna

443
00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:44,320
Speaker 2: just quote the whole thing. It's not very long. Written

444
00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:47,560
Speaker 2: after I was shot, Darling Nancy. I was shot leading

445
00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:49,960
Speaker 2: a rush up Moore Street and took refuge in a doorway.

446
00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:52,800
Speaker 2: While I was there, I heard the men pointing out

447
00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:54,520
Speaker 2: where I was and made a bolt for the lane

448
00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:57,320
Speaker 2: way I am in now. I got more one bullet.

449
00:22:57,359 --> 00:22:59,879
Speaker 2: I think tons and tons of love, Dearie, to you

450
00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:02,560
Speaker 2: and the boys and to Nell and Anna. It was

451
00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:06,159
Speaker 2: a good fight. Anyhow, please deliver this to Nanny Orahley

452
00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:09,480
Speaker 2: forty Herbert Park, Dublin, Goodbye, darling.

453
00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:13,480
Speaker 4: Wow, it was a good fight anyhow.

454
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:17,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's kind of sweet, you know, it is very sweet.

455
00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:21,320
Speaker 2: And here's just sometimes letting yourself be won over by

456
00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:23,520
Speaker 2: glorious madness. If all your friends are jumping off a bridge,

457
00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:24,480
Speaker 2: sometimes there's a reason.

458
00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:29,240
Speaker 3: Well, I also think acknowledging that these opportunities don't come

459
00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:32,600
Speaker 3: very often once in a generation, as has been established,

460
00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:36,080
Speaker 3: and this is the thing that you're working towards, and

461
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:40,679
Speaker 3: acknowledging that it's not an ideal situation. But are you

462
00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:42,720
Speaker 3: going to live the rest of your life thinking I

463
00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:46,760
Speaker 3: should have gone out there and died with everyone else?

464
00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:47,439
Speaker 1: You know?

465
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:50,560
Speaker 3: Right, of these characters we've laid out, I think most

466
00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:53,240
Speaker 3: of them would not be living a life they want

467
00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:55,399
Speaker 3: to live if they never didn't make that choice to

468
00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:57,080
Speaker 3: join when push comes to shove.

469
00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:00,679
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and there's actually going to be a there'll be

470
00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:05,000
Speaker 2: some quotes later basically to that effect. Yeah, So Connolly

471
00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:07,000
Speaker 2: at the General post Office, he's the you know, sort

472
00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:08,800
Speaker 2: of military commander of it all. I mean, Pierce is

473
00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:11,359
Speaker 2: also one of the commanders. Right, he gets shot at

474
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:14,959
Speaker 2: least twice in the process of all of this, I've

475
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:18,600
Speaker 2: read a few accounts. Most likely he got shot first

476
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:20,879
Speaker 2: in the shoulder while doing some shit at a barricade,

477
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:24,439
Speaker 2: but he kept keeps going. Later, he takes a bullet

478
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:27,400
Speaker 2: to the ankle and it goes really bad. It goes

479
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:31,840
Speaker 2: really badly. He is unable to stand and he slowly

480
00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:35,119
Speaker 2: starts dying. And the way it gets presented, they're like

481
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:38,680
Speaker 2: he led from a lying down position for days. That's

482
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:42,199
Speaker 2: one version. When I read versions that more actively and

483
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:44,280
Speaker 2: intentionally focus on the women who are involved in the

484
00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:48,680
Speaker 2: rising and are less on the great man of history. Page. Yeah,

485
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:50,399
Speaker 2: he was laying around in a stretcher and he was

486
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:52,760
Speaker 2: doing what he could, and command fell to the second

487
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:55,920
Speaker 2: in command, doctor Kathleen Lynn, the head of all the

488
00:24:55,960 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 2: medical stuff. She was overseeing the headquarters of the rebel

489
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:06,040
Speaker 2: at the end well on Saturday, the rebels surrendered unconditionally

490
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:11,280
Speaker 2: because they were losing badly, and primarily they surrendered, as

491
00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:15,240
Speaker 2: far as I understand, because the British kept fucking killing civilians.

492
00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:21,639
Speaker 2: They thought that the British wouldn't just massacre civilians because

493
00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:26,240
Speaker 2: they overestimated the ethics of their enemy. But I've read

494
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:30,720
Speaker 2: unconditional surrender, and I've also read that Patrick Pearce negotiated,

495
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:32,879
Speaker 2: you can kill those of us who signed the proclamation,

496
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:38,200
Speaker 2: but not everyone else. Yeah, one woman from the kumin Avon,

497
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:41,880
Speaker 2: Elizabeth O'Farrell, had the unfortunate honor of delivering the order

498
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:44,359
Speaker 2: to surrender to all the other positions because there's no

499
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:47,200
Speaker 2: way of communicating, right, so they had to bring her

500
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:50,560
Speaker 2: with a white flag and be like, hey, it's true,

501
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:54,360
Speaker 2: we gave up. A lot of the volunteers didn't want

502
00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:56,640
Speaker 2: to give up, but eventually everyone surrendered.

503
00:25:57,920 --> 00:25:58,400
Speaker 4: Yeah.

504
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:03,040
Speaker 2: As the volunteers surrender, the working class of Dublin gave them,

505
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:07,000
Speaker 2: As one Canadian reporter referred to it, an ovation. Soldiers

506
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 2: would like have to go into the crowd to push

507
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 2: and like shut people up. As everyone cheered on the

508
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:14,600
Speaker 2: rebels as they were marched off to jail, and the

509
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:18,320
Speaker 2: poorer the district, the more support the rebels had. Because

510
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:21,080
Speaker 2: there's this other part of the story where when the

511
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:24,600
Speaker 2: soldiers land, a lot of them are cheered on by

512
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:27,400
Speaker 2: the people of Dublin, right, being like, hey you're here,

513
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:30,960
Speaker 2: shut these weird troublemakers up, you know. Yeah, it was

514
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:36,119
Speaker 2: a very divided city in the end. Two hundred and

515
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:41,679
Speaker 2: sixty civilians were killed, mostly but not exclusively by the British.

516
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:45,840
Speaker 2: One hundred and twenty six UK forces were killed, seventeen

517
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 2: cops were killed, and eighty two Irish rebels were killed

518
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:49,520
Speaker 2: in the fighting.

519
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:53,160
Speaker 4: How many the British did you say?

520
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:56,400
Speaker 2: One hundred and twenty six plus seventeen cops?

521
00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:57,200
Speaker 4: Is that?

522
00:26:58,000 --> 00:26:58,080
Speaker 1: No?

523
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:01,919
Speaker 2: So overall the rebels killed way more British people than

524
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:05,520
Speaker 2: the British killed of them. However, the British killed a

525
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:08,120
Speaker 2: fucked onn of civilians and more Syrians died than anyone else.

526
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:10,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, pretty gruesome strategy.

527
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:15,760
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, more than three thy five hundred people arrested, which,

528
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:18,159
Speaker 2: if you remember correctly, is more than the people who participated.

529
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:22,280
Speaker 2: Almost all of the people who are arrested, and this

530
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:24,239
Speaker 2: does not map to who did the uprising. Almost all

531
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:26,359
Speaker 2: of who was arrested was young Catholic men.

532
00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 4: Huh.

533
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:31,160
Speaker 2: Because there were just raids and roundups over the following days.

534
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:33,119
Speaker 2: Anyone who was suspected of having anything to do with

535
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:36,879
Speaker 2: it was rounded up. Ninety people were sentenced to death.

536
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 2: Most of them don't end up being executed, Okay, fourteen

537
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:43,760
Speaker 2: or fifteen of them were executed by firing squad, mostly leaders.

538
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 2: I'm really annoyed that I run into different numbers everywhere

539
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:49,159
Speaker 2: about this, because I think people are counting differently mm hm,

540
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:53,080
Speaker 2: because some people are counting Roger Casement, who's hanged, and

541
00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:54,879
Speaker 2: some people aren't. And then some people are counting this

542
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:57,639
Speaker 2: other guy who I'll talk about in a moment, and

543
00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 2: some people aren't, James Connolly, the socialist. He's almost dead already, right,

544
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 2: He's taken these two bullets. Doctors telling me is only

545
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:10,439
Speaker 2: a few days left. And then you have this moment

546
00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:13,520
Speaker 2: where the soldiers are like, hey, is he Is he

547
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:18,080
Speaker 2: well enough to shoot yet? And the doctor like who

548
00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:20,040
Speaker 2: I think was a British guy, like looked and was like,

549
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:25,359
Speaker 2: I cannot, No patient is good enough to shoot. You know.

550
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:28,760
Speaker 2: I wish I should have written actual quote down. But

551
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:32,480
Speaker 2: before he dies naturally of naturally, before he dies of

552
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:35,200
Speaker 2: bullets that were inflicted several days earlier.

553
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 4: Before he naturally dies of unnatural causes.

554
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 2: Right, a priest comes in and does last rites and

555
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:43,880
Speaker 2: people like to argue about this because people like want

556
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:46,200
Speaker 2: to claim James Connolly is an atheist or Catholic or

557
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:49,560
Speaker 2: blah blah blah blah blah right, because people want to

558
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:53,480
Speaker 2: own this man's legacy and can't understand the complicated fact

559
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 2: that he was a socialist who was culturally Catholic and

560
00:28:57,520 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 2: possibly in some ways theologically Catholic even we spent a

561
00:28:59,880 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 2: lot lot of his time talking shit on the church,

562
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:06,480
Speaker 2: and he believed in materialism. But he did his last rites.

563
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 2: The colonial occupying Army of Ireland came in, took him out,

564
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:13,840
Speaker 2: tied him to a chair, and shot him. And he

565
00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 2: never saw socialist Ireland. Neither has anyone. Yet his children

566
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:22,600
Speaker 2: kept up the fight for another generation. His last words

567
00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:24,760
Speaker 2: weren't a letter given to his daughter to give to

568
00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:28,480
Speaker 2: the Field General for the British. And it was a complex.

569
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 2: It starts off with a complaint about how the prisoners

570
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 2: are treated, because he's an activist to.

571
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 4: The end, yeah, right, right to the bitter end.

572
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah. And then he talks about how you know

573
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 2: England has no rights to Ireland, and then the last

574
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:44,920
Speaker 2: line is I personally thank God that I have lived

575
00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:47,000
Speaker 2: to see the day when thousands of Irish men and

576
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 2: boys and hundreds of Irish women and girls were ready

577
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:52,240
Speaker 2: to affirm that truth that England had no rights to

578
00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 2: Ireland and to attest it with their lives if need be.

579
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 4: That really doesn't sound like a sentence in atheist would write.

580
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 2: But no, I yeah, yeah exactly. Patrick Pierce wrote a

581
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:08,400
Speaker 2: farewell letter to his mother which which is and it

582
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:11,680
Speaker 2: included the line this is the death I should have

583
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 2: asked if God had given me the choice of all

584
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 2: deaths to die a soldier's death for Ireland and for freedom.

585
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:21,360
Speaker 2: We have done right. People will say hard things of

586
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 2: us now, but later on will praise us. And that

587
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 2: is fucking true.

588
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 4: It is true, And I mean that is the crux

589
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:33,440
Speaker 4: of what I was saying before. Yeah, you know, it's

590
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:33,960
Speaker 4: like I'd.

591
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:39,360
Speaker 3: Rather die a martyr, die fighting for what we believe in,

592
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:40,200
Speaker 3: for our country.

593
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:44,560
Speaker 2: Yeah. My goal is to be the cat lady who

594
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:48,640
Speaker 2: lives to be ninety, but but not by having not

595
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:52,560
Speaker 2: stood up when standing up r happening exactly.

596
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 4: Yeah.

597
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:58,480
Speaker 2: Willie Pierce, Padrick's brother, hadn't been a leader and hadn't

598
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:00,400
Speaker 2: killed anyone in all of it. He had been in

599
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 2: the fighting right, but he was like rank and file.

600
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:08,680
Speaker 2: They killed him too because of his last name, Oh

601
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:12,160
Speaker 2: one man, Thomas Kent. He hadn't come out to the

602
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:15,120
Speaker 2: rising because of the order to stay home. But he

603
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 2: and his like he was from a like strong we

604
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:22,080
Speaker 2: fucking hate the English family, right, And so when they

605
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 2: show up to try and arrest all the usual suspects,

606
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 2: they show up to his house and are going to

607
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:29,240
Speaker 2: arrest him, and he and his three brothers resisted arrest

608
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:33,720
Speaker 2: and killed a cop in the process. He was executed,

609
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 2: and he's part of the reason that the count is

610
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 2: kind of messed up. But yeah, different tastes.

611
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:42,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, he wasn't even a part of it technically, right,

612
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 3: He probably would have been.

613
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:46,040
Speaker 2: He absolutely would have been. Yeah, but he was told

614
00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 2: to stay home, and he did what he was told

615
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 2: to do.

616
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:50,160
Speaker 4: Man, that's also sucks too.

617
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:52,720
Speaker 3: If I was somebody that was committed and then I

618
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:55,960
Speaker 3: got the other and then I missed the memos somehow

619
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 3: and I stayed home, that would be a bitter pill

620
00:31:59,160 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 3: to swallow.

621
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:00,160
Speaker 4: For sure.

622
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 3: Absolutely, I'd maybe I would go fuck up a cop too, Yeah,

623
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 3: I know, especially if they came to arrest me for

624
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:08,400
Speaker 3: the thing I didn't even get to do.

625
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 4: Dare you want to see me fight? I'll fight.

626
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll give you something to write about. Ninety nine

627
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:19,560
Speaker 2: years after he was executed, his remains were exhumed from

628
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:21,760
Speaker 2: the prison where he'd been buried and were reburied in

629
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:27,120
Speaker 2: a state funeral. Joseph Mary Plunkett, he was the tuberculosis

630
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 2: guy or the wound on his neck. Yeah, you know,

631
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:32,480
Speaker 2: he's rich. He let his family use the has, let

632
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 2: the people use the land. Yeah, and you know, he

633
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:39,640
Speaker 2: almost died just of TB. But he was sentenced to death.

634
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:46,560
Speaker 2: His fiancee, Grace Gifford, who his sisters to crap. Some

635
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:50,120
Speaker 2: of the other people that I've talked about, I can't

636
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 2: remember right now. I think Kathleen Lynne, the doctor. Okay,

637
00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:57,240
Speaker 2: So his fiance had just converted to Catholicism in order

638
00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 2: to marry him, and when she heard about her fiance's

639
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:03,480
Speaker 2: execution date, she went out and she bought a ring,

640
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:05,760
Speaker 2: and she found a priest and she showed up at

641
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:08,280
Speaker 2: the jail and was like, you're gonna let me fucking

642
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:09,000
Speaker 2: marry this man.

643
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:11,720
Speaker 4: Let me marry this tuberculous man.

644
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:15,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, before you fucking kill him. A few hours before

645
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:19,480
Speaker 2: his execution, they have a ceremony in the jail cell

646
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 2: and the guards give him give them like ten minutes

647
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 2: together after the wedding to like talk.

648
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:30,640
Speaker 4: Like not even fucking consummate that marriage.

649
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:34,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, they would interrupt every minute to be like nine

650
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:38,240
Speaker 2: minutes now, eight minutes now was there a Dick Dix.

651
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 2: She went on to become a politician for Free Ireland.

652
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:45,400
Speaker 2: There's also this whole thing where like her his family

653
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:47,840
Speaker 2: tried to cut her out of the will because his

654
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:50,040
Speaker 2: will was like I leave it all to my widow.

655
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:53,240
Speaker 2: And then they're like, oh, there weren't enough witnesses for

656
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:55,480
Speaker 2: the marriage to count or whatever.

657
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:56,480
Speaker 4: The fuck did they win?

658
00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:01,200
Speaker 2: Uh, she won some money to twelve years later or

659
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:06,280
Speaker 2: like in nineteen thirty one, it's like fifteen years later. Awful. Yeah.

660
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 2: And there's another guy. His name's Tom Clark. He was

661
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:11,960
Speaker 2: of the older generation of revolutionaries. He had been part

662
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:13,759
Speaker 2: of that get some bombs and go to London and

663
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:17,000
Speaker 2: see what happens plan from the eighteen eighties. So he

664
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:19,759
Speaker 2: had been he was a revolutionist from you know, thirty

665
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:22,640
Speaker 2: years earlier that he was like, well, it's the best

666
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:26,320
Speaker 2: thing going. He had spent fifteen years in prison for

667
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:32,040
Speaker 2: his i mean first terrorism and he went to the US.

668
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:35,040
Speaker 2: He came back, he opened a tobacco shop. He supported

669
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:37,560
Speaker 2: unions and he wouldn't sell newspapers. That were owned by

670
00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 2: union busters. He also supported women's rights, and he was

671
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 2: fifty eight when he was executed for his role in

672
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:48,480
Speaker 2: the rising. His last words were conveyed through his wife,

673
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:51,600
Speaker 2: and they were my comrades, and I believe we have

674
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:55,000
Speaker 2: struck the first successful blow for freedom, and so sure

675
00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:57,360
Speaker 2: as we are going out this morning, and so sure

676
00:34:57,400 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 2: will freedom come as a direct result of our action.

677
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:03,840
Speaker 2: In this belief, we die happy. He also told his

678
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:06,480
Speaker 2: wife to make sure that that asshole coward Owen McNeil

679
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:08,759
Speaker 2: would be held to account for what he had done,

680
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:12,520
Speaker 2: and said, quote, he is a weak man, but I

681
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:17,440
Speaker 2: know every effort will be made to whitewash him, and.

682
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 4: I bet it was.

683
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, although I mean I think overall, I think people

684
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:25,160
Speaker 5: really like the rising, and so what happens is people

685
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:28,120
Speaker 5: try to take the rising and make it be about

686
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:29,280
Speaker 5: what they want it to be about.

687
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:33,279
Speaker 3: You know, Yeah, I guess, And mostly I mean in

688
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:38,000
Speaker 3: the immediate aftermath, the confusion of what the narrative is.

689
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:43,120
Speaker 3: But ultimately no, it's a very clearly he messed up.

690
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:48,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean again, it's like impossible to know

691
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:52,120
Speaker 2: what would have happened if several different things have gone differently. Yeah.

692
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:55,560
Speaker 2: But one thing that is as certain as the fact

693
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:58,520
Speaker 2: that we will each one day die, is that this

694
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:05,040
Speaker 2: podcast will be interrupt to buy advertisers who's all have

695
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:09,600
Speaker 2: very different volumes because they speak in a very maximized

696
00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 2: volume way to get your attention and try to convince

697
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:15,680
Speaker 2: you to do things that you shouldn't do, that you

698
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:20,319
Speaker 2: should totally do with your life. We love our ads

699
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:29,560
Speaker 2: and we're back and we're back. Yes, Okay. Now I'm

700
00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:31,359
Speaker 2: going to tell you about this person and you're gonna

701
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:32,960
Speaker 2: understand why she's my favorite of.

702
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:35,960
Speaker 4: All of Margaret Scott a lovely smile on her face.

703
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:37,280
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, she's excited.

704
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:42,160
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I hadn't yet told you about the lesbian

705
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:44,480
Speaker 2: bomber lady who was a sniper.

706
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:47,600
Speaker 4: Okay, saving the best for last day.

707
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:52,280
Speaker 2: See you guys like are close to us. Yeah, she survives.

708
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:55,680
Speaker 2: So I went through the people who died first, and

709
00:36:56,320 --> 00:37:02,720
Speaker 2: her name was Margaret Skinner. Okay Skinnader, Yeah, okay. Margaret

710
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:07,640
Speaker 2: Skinader was born to Irish parents in Scotland and she

711
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 2: became a school teacher. She later joined the Kumenovon branch

712
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:15,279
Speaker 2: in Glasgow in Scotland, and she was a crack shot

713
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:17,400
Speaker 2: with a rifle, and she spent her free time in

714
00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:21,440
Speaker 2: Ireland smuggling detonators in her hat and testing dynamite with

715
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:25,040
Speaker 2: the girls in the hills around the city. Okay, and

716
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:29,080
Speaker 2: I think spent time blowing up British soldiers and shit

717
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:31,400
Speaker 2: in Dublin when she got bored, Like I think she

718
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:34,279
Speaker 2: was dynamiting British positions before the rising.

719
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:34,960
Speaker 4: Amazing.

720
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:39,359
Speaker 2: She dressed like a boy during the rising to run

721
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:42,680
Speaker 2: messages when she wasn't busy sniping or scouting, and she

722
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 2: had four men under her command. She was almost certainly gay.

723
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:51,080
Speaker 2: There's a lot of like, you know, she wasn't like, hello,

724
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:53,239
Speaker 2: I am a lesbian, said she was like hello, I'm

725
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:55,240
Speaker 2: clearly a lesbian and live with the following woman.

726
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:56,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, you know.

727
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 2: She was also a socialist and she was shot three

728
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:03,400
Speaker 2: times during the rising while trying to burn down some

729
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:06,000
Speaker 2: houses to stop the retreating army. Like the British were

730
00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:07,920
Speaker 2: like trying to like run through some houses. So she's

731
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:10,879
Speaker 2: like fuck it, said fire to them, got shot three

732
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 2: times for it. She survived. She wrote autobiography which I

733
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:16,920
Speaker 2: haven't read yet but has the sick and Humble title

734
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 2: doing my bit for Ireland. Yeah, and then at the

735
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:25,480
Speaker 2: very end of it, she's gonna do one of the

736
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:27,880
Speaker 2: most cool people did cool stuff things of all. No,

737
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:31,239
Speaker 2: she doesn't represent herself in court. She does the other thing.

738
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:39,680
Speaker 2: She fucking breaks out of custody. Yes, she's in the

739
00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 2: hospital right because she got shot a whole lot of times.

740
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:44,800
Speaker 2: Is there a tunnel? Is there a tunnel? No? Okay, okay,

741
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:46,879
Speaker 2: there was a tunnel, And I didn't have a way

742
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:48,439
Speaker 2: to put it in because I wasn't as certain about

743
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:50,320
Speaker 2: it because I've read both that it happened and that

744
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:52,840
Speaker 2: it almost happened earlier. There was a part where I

745
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:55,400
Speaker 2: think Pierce and all the others are not Pierce. The

746
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:57,600
Speaker 2: people at the post office they had to escape, so

747
00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:00,759
Speaker 2: they started digging an escape tunnel. Yeah, but I'm not

748
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:02,960
Speaker 2: certain whether or not they succeeded. At So there was

749
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:06,680
Speaker 2: a tunnel, and she breaks out of custody. She's at

750
00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:09,799
Speaker 2: the hospital and she just like gets out past the

751
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:14,080
Speaker 2: guards and gets the fuck to Scotland. She's like, fuck Ireland.

752
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:16,320
Speaker 4: They underestimated that woman.

753
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:19,799
Speaker 2: Absolutely. They're like, this lady got shot three times. She's

754
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:21,600
Speaker 2: not going anywhere. Plus she's a lady, and she's like

755
00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:25,759
Speaker 2: uh huh, After the war, she did union organizing and

756
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:27,920
Speaker 2: school teaching. She went back to school teaching and she

757
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:31,520
Speaker 2: fought for women's rights, and she's fucking cool as hell.

758
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:37,000
Speaker 2: She's a top tier margaret. Then there's this leader, the

759
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:40,360
Speaker 2: half Spanish, half irishman born in the US named Amon

760
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:43,640
Speaker 2: de Valera. He's the one I mentioned that HM wouldn't

761
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:47,920
Speaker 2: give orders to women. He wasn't executed because of his

762
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:50,840
Speaker 2: American citizenship. He was absolutely one of the leaders of

763
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:54,440
Speaker 2: the rising. The British were trying to get the US

764
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:57,520
Speaker 2: to enter the war, and so killing an American wasn't

765
00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:02,279
Speaker 2: like gonna do them good, right. He becomes the third

766
00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:06,279
Speaker 2: President of Ireland. Later, oh, he also does this interesting shit.

767
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:08,680
Speaker 2: He is the leader of the Well, we'll talk about

768
00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:10,600
Speaker 2: what happens after the we'll talk. We'll get to that

769
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:15,040
Speaker 2: anyway along the way. Later he becomes hell a conservative

770
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:17,080
Speaker 2: or he was always hell a conservative, depending on who

771
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:21,080
Speaker 2: you ask. He's like one of the most strongly Catholic

772
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:25,800
Speaker 2: of all of the people. But in nineteen thirty seven

773
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:28,920
Speaker 2: he was the person who abolished the Oath of Allegiance

774
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:35,960
Speaker 2: to the Crown. So oh, good for him, I guess there. Yeah,

775
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:38,640
Speaker 2: the Countess she'd been one of the main leaders of

776
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:40,800
Speaker 2: the whole thing, and she may or may not have

777
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:44,080
Speaker 2: killed between one and three people between zero and three.

778
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:47,759
Speaker 2: She was sentenced to death, but they commuted it to

779
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:51,000
Speaker 2: life in prison on literal account of like, but you're

780
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:55,640
Speaker 2: a lady though. Okay, they were like, we can't kill you,

781
00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:59,360
Speaker 2: you're a girl. Well, she had a quote in response

782
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:02,440
Speaker 2: to this, I do wish your lot had the decency

783
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:03,000
Speaker 2: to shoot me.

784
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:06,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, honestly, it's worse just to be in

785
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:07,560
Speaker 3: prison the rest of your life.

786
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:09,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, far less lady like.

787
00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:12,720
Speaker 2: Yeah. One of the things that I've learned by reading

788
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:16,160
Speaker 2: history that does not map to any current understanding in

789
00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:19,719
Speaker 2: American politics is that one of the best ways to

790
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:22,200
Speaker 2: not be in prison for a long time is for

791
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:24,800
Speaker 2: the movement that you're a part of to keep fighting

792
00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:31,480
Speaker 2: really fucking hard. Because often throughout history, different governments have

793
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:34,839
Speaker 2: been like, maybe if we let their prisoners go, they'll

794
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:38,880
Speaker 2: stop blowing things up, right, right, So none of the

795
00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:41,640
Speaker 2: Easter Rising arrestees are going to spend an incredibly long

796
00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:46,759
Speaker 2: time in jail. Okay, Because Ireland successfully wins a war

797
00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:49,839
Speaker 2: of independence early O, Well, we'll talk anyway. She goes

798
00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:51,879
Speaker 2: on to become the first woman elected to the House

799
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:54,000
Speaker 2: of Commons, like I was saying, right, and then but

800
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:57,360
Speaker 2: she refused to take the role. And then later she

801
00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:00,359
Speaker 2: becomes the Minister of Labor for Free Ireland as Land's

802
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:04,279
Speaker 2: first woman minister and Europe's second woman minister. Wow. But

803
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:06,719
Speaker 2: Revolutionary Ireland was a lot more progressive than after the

804
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:09,200
Speaker 2: Revolution Ireland, and it wasn't until nineteen seventy nine that

805
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:13,480
Speaker 2: Ireland gets another woman minister. The rising itself was of

806
00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:16,600
Speaker 2: mixed popularity with the Irish people, but the executions were

807
00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:19,960
Speaker 2: really really unpopular. They do not get through the ninety

808
00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:23,160
Speaker 2: The rest of the executions are commuted out of fear

809
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:25,960
Speaker 2: of pissing people off even more except for Roger Caseman

810
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:30,080
Speaker 2: because his trial was separate and the other thing that happened.

811
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:33,360
Speaker 2: I think I mentioned this before, but during his trial

812
00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:35,880
Speaker 2: he kept all these like careful hit this like journal.

813
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:37,800
Speaker 2: He kept a very careful journal of all his travels

814
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:40,240
Speaker 2: around the world, and he kept a secret other journal

815
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:42,640
Speaker 2: of all the dudes he fucked. Ooh, and he was

816
00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:46,160
Speaker 2: a total size queen and interesting. So it was like,

817
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:47,920
Speaker 2: this is how big this dude's stick was?

818
00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:49,200
Speaker 4: Total size queen.

819
00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:54,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, the British pulled out the ifuck Dudes Journal it's

820
00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:58,759
Speaker 2: called the Black Journal or something, and to try and

821
00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:04,200
Speaker 2: turn Catholic Ireland against him, and it's moderately successful. Yeah,

822
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:05,839
Speaker 2: there's a lot of people who are like, no, it's

823
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:09,120
Speaker 2: a lie. And then like later journalists were like, it's

824
00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:12,680
Speaker 2: not a lie. Y'all are home of phobes. Yeah. Oh

825
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:15,000
Speaker 2: so he gets hanged. It's the end of his life.

826
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:18,520
Speaker 2: But he lived an amazing fucking life. Almost two thousand

827
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:21,120
Speaker 2: of the arrestees are taken a concentration camp in England

828
00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:24,799
Speaker 2: and Wales where they basically and I feel like I

829
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:26,080
Speaker 2: have to bring it up every time I say it

830
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:28,319
Speaker 2: on the show, Concentration camps starts meeting a different thing

831
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:30,440
Speaker 2: after World War Two. It's still not good, but it

832
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:33,080
Speaker 2: means take all the people of the following type and

833
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:36,600
Speaker 2: put them in one place. The Japanese and Ternman camps

834
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:39,880
Speaker 2: were one hundred percent concentration camps. Yeah, so they get

835
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:43,120
Speaker 2: together and plot a rebellion while they're in this fucking thing, right.

836
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:46,360
Speaker 2: The Irish War of Independence kicks off in nineteen nineteen.

837
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:50,840
Speaker 2: Only three years later, England sues for peace. The treaty

838
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:52,600
Speaker 2: offer comes and it's like you si got to swear

839
00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:56,400
Speaker 2: allegiance to the crowd. And so this time, when the

840
00:43:56,400 --> 00:43:58,440
Speaker 2: War of Independence had kicked off, they'd made their own government,

841
00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:03,320
Speaker 2: they'd made the doll Air and the yeah, Irish government whatever.

842
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:07,160
Speaker 2: And a ton of women were in this first doll,

843
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:09,759
Speaker 2: like just a ton of them, and a lot of

844
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:13,920
Speaker 2: them were leaders of the rising, or widows or mothers

845
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:16,440
Speaker 2: of people who had died in the rising. Yeah, And

846
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:18,439
Speaker 2: so it was basically like a thing that we see

847
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:20,880
Speaker 2: over and over again in history, is all of the

848
00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:22,560
Speaker 2: men sort of like run to the front, get killed,

849
00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:25,200
Speaker 2: and then the women do the work. The men are great,

850
00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:28,319
Speaker 2: they did amazing work, but so the women keep it up.

851
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:32,040
Speaker 2: Every single one of the women in the doll voted

852
00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:37,080
Speaker 2: against the treaty with England that ended the war by

853
00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:41,600
Speaker 2: making Ireland subservient to England again. So if Ireland had

854
00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:46,440
Speaker 2: listened to women, the Civil War would have been averted. However,

855
00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:48,520
Speaker 2: they would have had to resume war with the English

856
00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:51,640
Speaker 2: probably who fucking knows how that would go. Yeah, And

857
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:54,480
Speaker 2: that civil war leader of the pro treaty side was

858
00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:56,960
Speaker 2: guy Michael Collins, who was in the Rising. But he

859
00:44:57,000 --> 00:44:59,880
Speaker 2: has enough of a hagiography already, and I don't like

860
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:02,439
Speaker 2: like him. My uncle didn't like him, so I didn't

861
00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:02,960
Speaker 2: include him.

862
00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:06,359
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, that's a long standing family grudge. Leave him out.

863
00:45:06,640 --> 00:45:10,920
Speaker 2: Yeah. The guy who led the other side was Aimin

864
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:14,560
Speaker 2: de Valera, the guy who wouldn't give orders to women.

865
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:16,960
Speaker 4: And became eventually president.

866
00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:20,640
Speaker 2: Right, So that's like another part of his complicated legacies.

867
00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:24,480
Speaker 2: Like well, yeah, you know, the Irish Civil War can't

868
00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:27,480
Speaker 2: be mapped neatly left and right because you have a

869
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:30,160
Speaker 2: lot of the conservatives and a lot of the more

870
00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:34,799
Speaker 2: radical folks on the side against the treaty, whereas it's

871
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:37,279
Speaker 2: more of the like centrists and like middle of the

872
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:38,879
Speaker 2: road people who are like, fuck it, I just want

873
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:39,680
Speaker 2: the fighting to be done.

874
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:42,320
Speaker 4: I mean, tale as old as time.

875
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:45,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we have no idea how it would have gone

876
00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:47,080
Speaker 2: if they had turned on the tree. It's possible that

877
00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:48,880
Speaker 2: they would have won full independence. Possible they would have

878
00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:52,319
Speaker 2: been completely subservient. Who fucking knows. How we talk about

879
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:55,719
Speaker 2: historical events always shifts. And one of the ways that

880
00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:58,400
Speaker 2: people talk about the Easter Rising is fascinating to me.

881
00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:00,680
Speaker 2: It's probably wrong, but it's fascinating. It is both the

882
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:02,880
Speaker 2: most pagan and Catholic thing ever, and therefore it is

883
00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:06,360
Speaker 2: the most irish thing ever. People call it a blood

884
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:11,279
Speaker 2: sacrifice and the ideas that the rebels knew that they

885
00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:14,080
Speaker 2: would lose, and that their ideas weren't even popular, but

886
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:16,359
Speaker 2: that they spilled their blood for their country it would

887
00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:19,120
Speaker 2: spur others to fight and would lead to freedom. But

888
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:22,839
Speaker 2: I buy the argument that this isn't true because they

889
00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:25,479
Speaker 2: planned the whole thing. They tried to win. They didn't

890
00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:28,720
Speaker 2: go out to try to die, right, They were willing

891
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:33,360
Speaker 2: to die, and they accepted blood sacrifice as a thing

892
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:38,120
Speaker 2: that was okay, but it wasn't their plan. Ireland today

893
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:41,600
Speaker 2: does not reflect what they fought for, either side of

894
00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:44,719
Speaker 2: the nationalists or the socialist side. I did even more

895
00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:48,839
Speaker 2: reading about Pierce in the Intervening couple of days, and well,

896
00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:50,839
Speaker 2: not since you all heard this on Monday, but since

897
00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:54,840
Speaker 2: last week's episodes, since we've last met. Yeah, exactly the

898
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:58,160
Speaker 2: people who matter on like those listeners, sure, yeah, are

899
00:46:58,200 --> 00:46:59,600
Speaker 2: they even real except.

900
00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:01,680
Speaker 4: For the ones it's looking on sponsors links?

901
00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:07,319
Speaker 2: Oh yeah nada. Yeah. So he was more democratic and

902
00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:11,920
Speaker 2: egalitarian in his nationalism than I had initially assumed, and

903
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:14,560
Speaker 2: he would have been against and I read this from

904
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:17,319
Speaker 2: a I think this was Kiera and Allen's position and

905
00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:19,720
Speaker 2: from the book nineteen sixteen, and I tend to resonate

906
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:22,920
Speaker 2: with it. He would have been against that Ireland doesn't

907
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:29,120
Speaker 2: own its own natural resources. They're sold cheaply to international corporations. Connolly.

908
00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:32,440
Speaker 2: Of course, the socialist said exactly what would happen if

909
00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:34,680
Speaker 2: you don't get rid of capitalism, you don't get rid

910
00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:36,799
Speaker 2: of colonialism. He had that whole quote. If you raise

911
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:39,640
Speaker 2: a green flag over Dublin, it's not going to change

912
00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:42,160
Speaker 2: anything unless you get rid of the landlords. But what

913
00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:44,719
Speaker 2: it did set up, I'm going to quote Kiera and

914
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:48,480
Speaker 2: Allen from that book nineteen sixteen. Easter Rising gave birth

915
00:47:48,520 --> 00:47:52,279
Speaker 2: to a quote revolutionary tradition that has passed like a

916
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:56,320
Speaker 2: thread through subsequent decades. Sometimes this tradition has moved masses

917
00:47:56,360 --> 00:47:58,920
Speaker 2: of people, while at other times it has been confined

918
00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:02,040
Speaker 2: to the margins. Was it for this that the men

919
00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:05,120
Speaker 2: of nineteen sixteen died is one of the most common

920
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:09,480
Speaker 2: sayings of the modern rabble rouser. Official Ireland tries to

921
00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:13,960
Speaker 2: deal with the subterranean revolutionary tradition by canonizing and mummifying

922
00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:18,320
Speaker 2: the leaders of nineteen sixteen. Train stations, schools, and hospitals

923
00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:22,080
Speaker 2: are called after them, but even while their sacrifices are acknowledged,

924
00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:28,960
Speaker 2: their actual ideas are gutted of anything resembling a revolutionary thought. Interesting. Yeah,

925
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:30,640
Speaker 2: And one of the things that's really interesting to me

926
00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:33,719
Speaker 2: too is the rebels weren't just fighting for Ireland. They

927
00:48:34,200 --> 00:48:36,600
Speaker 2: positioned what they were doing in the context of the

928
00:48:36,600 --> 00:48:42,120
Speaker 2: British Empire. Connolly wrote extensively about Britain's colonialism in India,

929
00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:45,160
Speaker 2: and in nineteen fourteen he wrote about his desire to

930
00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:51,280
Speaker 2: fight this way quote starting thus, Ireland may yet set

931
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:54,919
Speaker 2: the torch to a European conflagration that will not burn

932
00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:58,120
Speaker 2: out until the last throne and last capitalism, bond and

933
00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:01,200
Speaker 2: debenture will be shriveled on the funeral pyre of the

934
00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:04,520
Speaker 2: last warlord. And you know it's a good poetic quote.

935
00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:05,640
Speaker 2: When I have to look up a word at a

936
00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:06,920
Speaker 2: venture is just like some like.

937
00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:12,080
Speaker 4: Alone you Oh, okay, thank you. I did not know that.

938
00:49:12,239 --> 00:49:14,320
Speaker 2: I love that you had to look ventured.

939
00:49:14,920 --> 00:49:15,640
Speaker 4: That's your mark.

940
00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:20,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, thinking about that, Martyorie. The thing about the deaths

941
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:24,200
Speaker 3: of the rebels, I mean, that is just such a

942
00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:27,080
Speaker 3: big part of Irish culture in general, all the people

943
00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:31,839
Speaker 3: throughout the all the different rebellions and risings, and uh,

944
00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:38,000
Speaker 3: that they hold this mythical status. Yeah, in Irish society

945
00:49:38,120 --> 00:49:41,000
Speaker 3: and to this day everywhere. Of course it's you know,

946
00:49:41,120 --> 00:49:45,400
Speaker 3: especially Belfast in different parts of the country, you know,

947
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:48,880
Speaker 3: but yeah, that's baked into what it feels to be

948
00:49:49,040 --> 00:49:53,160
Speaker 3: Irish and when you're in Ireland, it's it's everywhere. Yeah,

949
00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:55,400
Speaker 3: I don't know, it's not really a point. It's just

950
00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:58,120
Speaker 3: you know, thinking about all of this history and this

951
00:49:58,280 --> 00:50:02,160
Speaker 3: fight that has continued and you know, in how many

952
00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:05,319
Speaker 3: people have died fighting for this, and yeah, the way

953
00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:10,480
Speaker 3: that the message and the realities get mutated and the

954
00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:15,440
Speaker 3: outcome for the people, you know from the very beginning

955
00:50:15,480 --> 00:50:19,080
Speaker 3: would probably not be very thrilled totally.

956
00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:23,240
Speaker 2: You know, I would absolutely love to have a beer

957
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:30,120
Speaker 2: with the Countess and yeah, and Connolly and the I

958
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:34,480
Speaker 2: forget her name, the lesbian bomber sniper, Margaret's Skinnader. I

959
00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:38,719
Speaker 2: would love to hear what they think about all of this.

960
00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:40,400
Speaker 2: And I mean some of them lived long enough that

961
00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:41,880
Speaker 2: they did get to write about it, and so some

962
00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:44,920
Speaker 2: of it we can go and read, right, because like

963
00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:47,640
Speaker 2: that's the other problem is we'll boil it down to

964
00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:50,800
Speaker 2: Pearson Connolly, who are great, and I don't want to

965
00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:54,319
Speaker 2: take anything away from them. You know, well great is

966
00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:57,560
Speaker 2: not whatever they did an amazing and interesting thing.

967
00:50:58,160 --> 00:50:58,360
Speaker 1: You know.

968
00:50:58,360 --> 00:51:01,000
Speaker 2: We don't have to agree with everything that they or believe,

969
00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:03,359
Speaker 2: but yeah, but we don't. I don't want to take

970
00:51:03,360 --> 00:51:07,960
Speaker 2: anything away from what they did. They are figureheads of

971
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:10,960
Speaker 2: this of these movements, you know, and then there's many,

972
00:51:11,040 --> 00:51:14,759
Speaker 2: many other people involved in these movements. And I like

973
00:51:15,080 --> 00:51:17,120
Speaker 2: the method. I mean, I think it shows on the

974
00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:22,120
Speaker 2: show where instead of taking away from the people who

975
00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:25,080
Speaker 2: get put up as figureheads, is also elevating other people

976
00:51:25,560 --> 00:51:28,880
Speaker 2: and being like, let's add to the roster of our heroes.

977
00:51:29,640 --> 00:51:32,239
Speaker 4: Adding the context and yeah.

978
00:51:32,680 --> 00:51:37,440
Speaker 2: Yeah. So within a few years, Ireland fought a war

979
00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:40,520
Speaker 2: of independence. It did not shatter the British Empire, but

980
00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:43,439
Speaker 2: it showed that it could be beaten, and it also

981
00:51:43,560 --> 00:51:47,959
Speaker 2: showed how to beat it guerrilla warfare. The Irish didn't

982
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:51,279
Speaker 2: invent using guerrilla tactics against the British. They themselves were

983
00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:54,399
Speaker 2: heavily inspired by the Bores of South Africa, but they

984
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:58,880
Speaker 2: in turn influenced others, including the rebellious movements in Myanmar,

985
00:51:59,160 --> 00:52:04,600
Speaker 2: India and Egypt, and that's part of their legacy too. Yeah,

986
00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:07,200
Speaker 2: and that's the story of the Easter Rising.

987
00:52:08,040 --> 00:52:12,840
Speaker 4: It's a wonderful story. Margaret. Thanks a lot of research

988
00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:13,200
Speaker 4: you did.

989
00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:18,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, this was one of those sometimes I have lots

990
00:52:18,719 --> 00:52:20,239
Speaker 2: of days in a row where I wake up and

991
00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:25,920
Speaker 2: work and then do that until I go to sleep. Agnada. Yeah.

992
00:52:26,120 --> 00:52:29,919
Speaker 3: Oh it's fascinating, I mean, but yeah, it's so complicated.

993
00:52:30,080 --> 00:52:33,720
Speaker 3: I've learned a lot, and I don't know, it's interesting,

994
00:52:33,800 --> 00:52:40,080
Speaker 3: especially that, Yeah, the inspiration for other uprisings, other you know,

995
00:52:40,719 --> 00:52:42,520
Speaker 3: movements around the world too.

996
00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:46,759
Speaker 4: You forget that, yeah, or I don't know it didn't know?

997
00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:51,080
Speaker 2: It makes sense well, and it's partly because like I

998
00:52:51,120 --> 00:52:54,480
Speaker 2: love Irish history clearly it shows in my choice of subjects.

999
00:52:54,560 --> 00:52:56,440
Speaker 2: I also love it because of my family connection, but

1000
00:52:56,480 --> 00:52:58,759
Speaker 2: I also love it on its own. But there is

1001
00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:03,480
Speaker 2: this problem where white Americans are like, oh, look the

1002
00:53:03,560 --> 00:53:06,759
Speaker 2: good white people the Irish, you know, and so we

1003
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:10,080
Speaker 2: can be like, ah, yes, the Irish, they overthrew England

1004
00:53:10,200 --> 00:53:13,719
Speaker 2: and that's all that matters, you know. And I don't

1005
00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:17,040
Speaker 2: know shit about the Egyptian independence movement yet, not yet,

1006
00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:20,520
Speaker 2: you know, And like I know a little bit about

1007
00:53:20,520 --> 00:53:23,719
Speaker 2: the Indian independence movement. Actually, until two weeks ago, I

1008
00:53:23,800 --> 00:53:25,400
Speaker 2: knew more about it than I knew what the Irish wan.

1009
00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:27,200
Speaker 2: But I still don't know enough. I don't know enough

1010
00:53:27,200 --> 00:53:28,839
Speaker 2: that I couldn't just do a show on it without

1011
00:53:28,840 --> 00:53:31,400
Speaker 2: doing a fuck ton more research. Yeah, you know, and

1012
00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:34,640
Speaker 2: we mythologize. I actually wrote about this in my substack.

1013
00:53:34,680 --> 00:53:36,440
Speaker 2: Oh here's my like a little plug. Oh good, I

1014
00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:39,560
Speaker 2: wrote a substack article. It will be a couple weeks

1015
00:53:39,560 --> 00:53:41,640
Speaker 2: ago by the time you're listening to this about the rising,

1016
00:53:42,120 --> 00:53:44,600
Speaker 2: and it covers the rising, but it also talks about

1017
00:53:44,719 --> 00:53:46,759
Speaker 2: the way that we mythologize, and the way that I've

1018
00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:51,399
Speaker 2: mythologized Irish rebels and all of that. And it's complicated.

1019
00:53:51,480 --> 00:53:55,640
Speaker 2: It's it's a you know, we want simple black and

1020
00:53:55,680 --> 00:54:00,000
Speaker 2: white heroes, and then you're like, yeah, they kidnapped their

1021
00:54:00,200 --> 00:54:02,759
Speaker 2: friend and then spread lies in order to get people

1022
00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:05,080
Speaker 2: who didn't know that they were about the fighting uprising

1023
00:54:05,160 --> 00:54:08,080
Speaker 2: to go do an uprising, you know, and they got

1024
00:54:08,080 --> 00:54:12,720
Speaker 2: everyone killed. And yes, the British did the shelling. Any

1025
00:54:13,880 --> 00:54:16,560
Speaker 2: rational understanding of British tactics would have been like, the

1026
00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:18,479
Speaker 2: English are going to show up here, in shell, they're

1027
00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:20,279
Speaker 2: just going to blow shit up, you know.

1028
00:54:21,080 --> 00:54:24,759
Speaker 3: But it's important to acknowledge all of it. We have

1029
00:54:24,800 --> 00:54:29,359
Speaker 3: a tendency, yes, to want to put our heroes up,

1030
00:54:29,480 --> 00:54:32,879
Speaker 3: or the people that are fighting for the thing that

1031
00:54:32,920 --> 00:54:33,839
Speaker 3: we believe in.

1032
00:54:34,360 --> 00:54:35,759
Speaker 4: We want to put them on a pedestal. We deal

1033
00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:37,040
Speaker 4: with presidents all the time.

1034
00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:39,640
Speaker 3: But the reality is we need to stop doing that

1035
00:54:40,280 --> 00:54:43,440
Speaker 3: in the sense that they're human beings and complicated and messy,

1036
00:54:43,880 --> 00:54:47,759
Speaker 3: and that a lot of choices fall into a very

1037
00:54:47,840 --> 00:54:51,839
Speaker 3: moral gray area regardless of your goal, how pure your

1038
00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:55,640
Speaker 3: goal is, how do you get there? You know, But

1039
00:54:55,680 --> 00:54:57,479
Speaker 3: we have to be able, we have to be able

1040
00:54:57,520 --> 00:55:01,640
Speaker 3: to think about things honestly that no totally.

1041
00:55:01,640 --> 00:55:03,759
Speaker 2: And actually it's funny you point out like and I'm

1042
00:55:03,760 --> 00:55:05,040
Speaker 2: like I was as you're saying that, I was like, oh,

1043
00:55:05,080 --> 00:55:07,040
Speaker 2: it's not a single American president that I like. But

1044
00:55:07,080 --> 00:55:09,680
Speaker 2: then I'm like, then, why am I talking about these

1045
00:55:09,680 --> 00:55:11,200
Speaker 2: people who are like, yeah, this guy was cool, we

1046
00:55:11,239 --> 00:55:12,759
Speaker 2: did this thing, and then he became the president for

1047
00:55:12,760 --> 00:55:14,480
Speaker 2: a really long time, and he was a little conservative

1048
00:55:14,480 --> 00:55:16,880
Speaker 2: and he was like part of the Irish theocracy that

1049
00:55:17,160 --> 00:55:20,280
Speaker 2: and then I'm like, oh, so in my mind, being

1050
00:55:20,320 --> 00:55:22,800
Speaker 2: a politician as an example of this moral gray area

1051
00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:25,200
Speaker 2: of people like drifting away from the you know, the

1052
00:55:25,239 --> 00:55:29,200
Speaker 2: Easter Rising was like the pure rising, right, whereas the

1053
00:55:29,239 --> 00:55:31,960
Speaker 2: War of Independence and especially the Civil War were messy

1054
00:55:32,480 --> 00:55:36,640
Speaker 2: and there's not a good guy in the English in

1055
00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:38,080
Speaker 2: the in the Irish Civil War. Even though I have

1056
00:55:38,160 --> 00:55:41,120
Speaker 2: a side that I am sympathetic to, right, the anti

1057
00:55:41,160 --> 00:55:44,319
Speaker 2: treaty side, the more freedom side, I am sympathetic to it.

1058
00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:46,400
Speaker 2: Am I so sympathetic to it that I think it

1059
00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:49,200
Speaker 2: would be okay for me to kill the person I

1060
00:55:49,360 --> 00:55:53,480
Speaker 2: just fought a war of independence with. I don't think so.

1061
00:55:54,040 --> 00:55:56,040
Speaker 2: But what if that person is now trying to kill

1062
00:55:56,080 --> 00:55:59,640
Speaker 2: me because I'm saying that we shouldn't swear of oath

1063
00:55:59,680 --> 00:56:02,399
Speaker 2: of lee since the King, you know. And you can

1064
00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:06,680
Speaker 2: see how this wound is left by colonialism. You can

1065
00:56:06,760 --> 00:56:11,360
Speaker 2: see how the Irish versus Irish fight continues to this

1066
00:56:11,520 --> 00:56:15,480
Speaker 2: day because of this, And that is why Star Trek

1067
00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:18,400
Speaker 2: said that twenty twenty four is the year of Irish

1068
00:56:18,480 --> 00:56:22,000
Speaker 2: unification and shin Faine is currently I don't actually think

1069
00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:23,719
Speaker 2: they're going to pull this off, but shin Faane is

1070
00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:27,200
Speaker 2: currently coming into power in Northern Ireland, and so there's

1071
00:56:27,239 --> 00:56:29,759
Speaker 2: like again, this is a the meme level.

1072
00:56:29,560 --> 00:56:32,799
Speaker 3: As it was written, so it shall be yeah, yeah,

1073
00:56:32,800 --> 00:56:34,080
Speaker 3: exactly cool.

1074
00:56:34,960 --> 00:56:37,240
Speaker 1: Canty, you got anything you want to plug for us?

1075
00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:37,960
Speaker 3: Oh?

1076
00:56:38,000 --> 00:56:41,560
Speaker 4: Sure, why not. I have a show with Cody Johnston

1077
00:56:41,680 --> 00:56:44,520
Speaker 4: called Some More News. You can watch the YouTube channel

1078
00:56:44,640 --> 00:56:47,839
Speaker 4: on Wednesdays or you can listen to it as a podcast.

1079
00:56:48,200 --> 00:56:52,040
Speaker 3: Speaking of podcasts, we also have a podcast called.

1080
00:56:51,840 --> 00:56:54,720
Speaker 4: Even More News, which we co host and that's every week.

1081
00:56:55,200 --> 00:56:59,200
Speaker 4: And that's that's it. That's it, that's what I'm plugging.

1082
00:56:59,320 --> 00:57:00,440
Speaker 4: That's what I yep.

1083
00:57:00,920 --> 00:57:02,800
Speaker 2: Get your news from it instead of Twitter, and you

1084
00:57:02,840 --> 00:57:04,480
Speaker 2: will be a happier person.

1085
00:57:05,120 --> 00:57:06,000
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1086
00:57:06,080 --> 00:57:09,600
Speaker 2: I already accidentally plug my substack. I have a book

1087
00:57:09,800 --> 00:57:13,040
Speaker 2: out again. It's the one that I told you about,

1088
00:57:13,040 --> 00:57:15,160
Speaker 2: the kickstarter for last year, one of the ones I

1089
00:57:15,160 --> 00:57:17,000
Speaker 2: told you about, a kickstar for last year. I have

1090
00:57:17,000 --> 00:57:19,120
Speaker 2: a tabletop roleplaying game called Pan Number City. If you

1091
00:57:19,160 --> 00:57:22,640
Speaker 2: want to be a revolutionist blowing up various god things

1092
00:57:22,680 --> 00:57:26,280
Speaker 2: in a vaguely actually really kind of set around nineteen sixteen,

1093
00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:28,760
Speaker 2: but in a fantasy world. You can do it by

1094
00:57:28,760 --> 00:57:30,440
Speaker 2: playing Pa Number City with your friends, or you can

1095
00:57:30,480 --> 00:57:31,640
Speaker 2: do what I did as a kid and not have

1096
00:57:31,680 --> 00:57:33,480
Speaker 2: any friends and by role playing game books and read

1097
00:57:33,520 --> 00:57:35,840
Speaker 2: them and imagine playing them and yet almost as not

1098
00:57:35,960 --> 00:57:38,000
Speaker 2: nearly as much enjoyment, but some enjoyment out of it.

1099
00:57:38,520 --> 00:57:40,600
Speaker 2: And it's available for sale now because it's finally out.

1100
00:57:40,680 --> 00:57:44,520
Speaker 2: It came out on February second, and you can get it.

1101
00:57:44,520 --> 00:57:48,360
Speaker 2: Its distribution is not fully in place yet, but you

1102
00:57:48,360 --> 00:57:49,800
Speaker 2: can get it. So you can't go to like your

1103
00:57:49,840 --> 00:57:52,240
Speaker 2: game story get it yet, but you can go to

1104
00:57:52,280 --> 00:57:54,480
Speaker 2: Tanglebilderness dot org, or you can just type in the

1105
00:57:54,600 --> 00:57:57,200
Speaker 2: number city because there's not too many things named that

1106
00:57:57,480 --> 00:57:59,800
Speaker 2: and one of them is my book.

1107
00:58:00,360 --> 00:58:03,160
Speaker 4: School requested at their local game stores. Would that help?

1108
00:58:03,840 --> 00:58:05,760
Speaker 2: So at some point I'm going to tell people to

1109
00:58:05,760 --> 00:58:08,920
Speaker 2: start doing that thing once we get the distribution network

1110
00:58:08,960 --> 00:58:11,480
Speaker 2: in place. We've been so focused on getting this We

1111
00:58:11,560 --> 00:58:13,320
Speaker 2: kickstarted this book and so we were like, we're going

1112
00:58:13,400 --> 00:58:15,800
Speaker 2: to do so many things, and then we had to

1113
00:58:15,800 --> 00:58:18,520
Speaker 2: do all those things, and now we're like, we tried

1114
00:58:18,560 --> 00:58:20,440
Speaker 2: to get it out to the backers as soon as possible.

1115
00:58:20,760 --> 00:58:22,760
Speaker 2: So now we're setting up that got it.

1116
00:58:22,840 --> 00:58:27,800
Speaker 4: The answer is eventually, eventually, folks, eventually you'll be called

1117
00:58:27,840 --> 00:58:28,520
Speaker 4: into action.

1118
00:58:29,080 --> 00:58:31,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, Sophie, what do you got?

1119
00:58:32,520 --> 00:58:35,560
Speaker 1: We at cool Zone Media have a new weekly podcast.

1120
00:58:35,600 --> 00:58:40,720
Speaker 1: It is called Better Offline. It is hosted by ed Zitron,

1121
00:58:40,880 --> 00:58:43,200
Speaker 1: and it is a weekly show exploring the tech industry's

1122
00:58:43,200 --> 00:58:49,160
Speaker 1: influencing manipulation of society. As of today's episode, the trailer

1123
00:58:49,200 --> 00:58:52,760
Speaker 1: should be out and episode one drops on February twenty

1124
00:58:52,760 --> 00:58:53,560
Speaker 1: first check it out.

1125
00:58:53,560 --> 00:58:57,560
Speaker 4: Ooh, I'm definitely going to check that out. Sounds depressing.

1126
00:58:57,800 --> 00:59:00,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is wickedly talented.

1127
00:59:01,120 --> 00:59:04,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, just an amazing tech journalist. So very excited about

1128
00:59:04,960 --> 00:59:05,600
Speaker 1: that one.

1129
00:59:06,160 --> 00:59:09,080
Speaker 2: All right, we did it. I will see you all

1130
00:59:09,240 --> 00:59:09,680
Speaker 2: next week.

1131
00:59:09,960 --> 00:59:12,280
Speaker 4: NYE bye.

1132
00:59:13,000 --> 00:59:15,480
Speaker 1: Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of

1133
00:59:15,560 --> 00:59:18,640
Speaker 1: cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool Zone Media,

1134
00:59:18,800 --> 00:59:22,040
Speaker 1: visit our website coolzonmedia dot com, or check us out

1135
00:59:22,120 --> 00:59:25,520
Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get

1136
00:59:25,560 --> 00:59:26,360
Speaker 1: your podcasts.