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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls podcast, where we

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Speaker 1: discussed all things mental health, personal development, and all the

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Speaker 1: small decisions we can make to become the best possible

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Speaker 1: versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr Joy Harden Bradford,

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Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. To get more information

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Speaker 1: and resources, visit the website at Therapy for Black Girls

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Speaker 1: dot com. And while I hope you love listening to

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Speaker 1: and learning from the podcast, it is not meant to

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Speaker 1: be a substitute for a relationship with a licensed mental

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Speaker 1: health professional. Hey y'all, thanks so much for joining me

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Speaker 1: for session of the Therapy for Black Girls podcast. On

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Speaker 1: today's episode, I wanted to spend some time discussing a

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Speaker 1: treatment that is used specifically to help work through trauma.

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Speaker 1: So I know in the mental health field you often

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Speaker 1: hear a lot of acronyms thrown around CBD, DBT, I,

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Speaker 1: P T, etcetera. As a part of continuing to help

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Speaker 1: you make the best decisions for yourself and your mental health,

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Speaker 1: I want to help you understand what all these letters mean.

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Speaker 1: That's why for today's episode, I chatted with licensed professional

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Speaker 1: counselor Kelly Davis in her practice Kelly uses e M

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Speaker 1: d R, which stands for eye movement, Desensitization and reprocessing

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Speaker 1: to help our clients work through trauma. Kelly comes for

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Speaker 1: with more than ten years of practice specializing in trauma

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Speaker 1: informed therapy and care, including post traumatic stress disorder and

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Speaker 1: adolescents and adults. PTSD may include symptoms such as nightmares, flashbacks,

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Speaker 1: suicidal ideations, startled responses, and self harming tendencies. Her approach

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Speaker 1: includes experiential therapy such as e M d R and

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Speaker 1: psychodrama techniques, as well as traditional talk therapy. Kelly is

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Speaker 1: in private practice and director of Grief and Trauma Resolution

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Speaker 1: at Lakeside Behavioral Health System. She is a member of

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Speaker 1: the West Tennessee Counseling Association and was named the Counselor

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Speaker 1: of the Year in two thousand and sixteen. She's an

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Speaker 1: active member of the American Society of Group Psychotherapy and

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Speaker 1: Psychodrama and is designated as a Mental Health Services Provider.

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Speaker 1: So in this episode, Kelly and I talked about what

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Speaker 1: e M d R is, how she uses it in treatment,

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Speaker 1: what concerns it works best for, and how it's different

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Speaker 1: from traditional talk therapy. So, Kelly, thank you so much.

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Speaker 1: For joining me on the podcast today. Thank you for

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Speaker 1: having me. You're welcome. So you are here to talk

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Speaker 1: with us all about E M d R. So, first

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Speaker 1: of all, can you tell us what those letters stand for.

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Speaker 1: E M d R stands for Eye movement Desensitization reprocessing. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So what is that. M d R is a type

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Speaker 1: therapy modality that creates REM sleep, rapid eye movement sleep

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Speaker 1: at a waking state. Uh. It is believed that a

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Speaker 1: lot of healing and repairing and restoring takes place in

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Speaker 1: REM sleep. So essentially what m d R does is

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Speaker 1: mimic REM sleep, but the client or patient is awake

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Speaker 1: and very aware of what's going on. Many people mistaken

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Speaker 1: for hypnosis. It's not hypnosis. They're awake, they're alert, and

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Speaker 1: they're just kind of guided through correcting areas in their

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Speaker 1: lives that need to be corrected. Okay, and so what

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Speaker 1: what is involved in this? Like it sounds like this

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Speaker 1: may require like some kind of equipment or does it

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Speaker 1: involve any kind of equipment? It can involve equipment. When

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Speaker 1: it was first discovered and taught to different clinicians, uh,

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Speaker 1: clinicians were encouraged to create the eye movement process by

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Speaker 1: taking two fingers and waving them back and forth in

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Speaker 1: front of a patient, and patients or clients were asked

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Speaker 1: to track the movement of the fingers going back and forth. Um.

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Speaker 1: And there's some clinicies that still use that. I personally use,

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Speaker 1: uh what are considered tappers that will bilaterally stimulate patients

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Speaker 1: and that's what creates the rim sleep process. As long

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Speaker 1: as the eyes are moving back and forth, then we

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Speaker 1: are um mimicking rim sleep and and that's the whole

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Speaker 1: the whole method of of what's going on, the eye

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Speaker 1: movement going back and forth. Okay, So these tappers that

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Speaker 1: you're talking about, what what would they be doing? You

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Speaker 1: say they stimulate bilateral Yeah, So what I do when

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Speaker 1: I'm using m Dr Joy, I will have clients are

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Speaker 1: the hole the tappers in each hand, and you can

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Speaker 1: create the intensity of how they buzz back and forth.

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Speaker 1: You can also control how fast the movement's go back

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Speaker 1: and forth. Some clients, I will have them to to

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Speaker 1: sit on top of them to put one taper under

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Speaker 1: each leg or under each foot because UM reprocessing traumatic events. Uh,

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Speaker 1: you know it's it's it's painful. And so when people

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Speaker 1: get tearful I like for their hands to be free

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Speaker 1: if they would want to reach for kleenex or or

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Speaker 1: clench their hands. UM. But every clinician is different. Okay, okay,

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Speaker 1: So what clinical issues UM is E R is M

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Speaker 1: E M D are typically used for. It's typically used

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Speaker 1: for people survivors of traumatic experiences, primarily people would post

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Speaker 1: traumatic stress disorder UH that have these disturbing events UH

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Speaker 1: that try to process on their own. People try to

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Speaker 1: work them out on their own. And the way they

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Speaker 1: try to get worked out often times or through nightmares

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Speaker 1: and flashbacks. But nightmares people wake up and so they

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Speaker 1: stop UM the process of trying to work through a

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Speaker 1: traumatic experience, or if there's a flashback, the inclination is

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Speaker 1: to go ahead and stop it from happening. If they

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Speaker 1: are will go ahead and encourage that UH in control

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Speaker 1: setting and controlled environment. Okay, So this this feels like

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Speaker 1: is this something that works in tandem with something like UM,

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Speaker 1: like cognitive behavioral therapy or is this like a different approach.

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Speaker 1: I definitely think it could work in tandem with TBT.

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Speaker 1: I've had a lot of clients that come to me

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Speaker 1: they've used cognitive behavior therapy to try and UM to

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Speaker 1: work through traumatic experiences and but that kind of keeps

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Speaker 1: you um intellectual, you know, just kind of in your

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Speaker 1: head the n B are And that's what I like

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Speaker 1: so much about it. It encourages the emotional aspect that

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Speaker 1: goes along with traumatic situations that happened. Most traumatic situations

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Speaker 1: that happened to us, they kind of freeze the store.

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Speaker 1: We kind of stuck in time, so we can feel

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Speaker 1: all of them, all of the painful emotions are still

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Speaker 1: stuck there. E M d R encourages becoming unstucked. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And sometimes CBT just cannot reach a client at that

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Speaker 1: level because E M d R can be very physiological

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Speaker 1: and enco Trauma is trapped in the body. Actually, there's

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Speaker 1: some research that talks about MS. Most sclerosis could be

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Speaker 1: considered trapped trauma. Trauma is trapped in the body. So

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Speaker 1: M d R encourages the processing at a cellular level.

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Speaker 1: And that's the place that talk therapy tries really hard

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Speaker 1: to reach. But in my experience, it can't quite get

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Speaker 1: to it. And most clients will come to me and say,

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Speaker 1: I've talked about this issue. I'm so I'm tired of

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Speaker 1: talking about it. Uh. The talking gives it the relief,

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Speaker 1: but it just doesn't get it to the level that

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Speaker 1: that m d R will. We'll we'll get a client

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Speaker 1: to that I've seen. So this this all sounds really interesting,

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Speaker 1: UM and I want to kind of, you know, help

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Speaker 1: everybody understand like what this exactly looks like. So somebody

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Speaker 1: comes to you, you know, after a traumatic experience, maybe

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Speaker 1: like a bad car accident, UM or something, what kinds

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Speaker 1: of things would happen in like the first couple of

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Speaker 1: sessions and what would like a course of treatment look

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Speaker 1: like with E M d R to help work through

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Speaker 1: the trauma of a car accident. Okay, so that's a

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Speaker 1: good example. You know, if somebody comes to me with

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Speaker 1: the car accident, you know, E M d R has

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Speaker 1: phases that you go through. The first phase would be

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Speaker 1: the history taking, you know, asking the client exactly what happened,

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Speaker 1: um and from events that happened to us, we develop

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Speaker 1: a narrative that oftentimes it's self deprecating. Things We begin

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Speaker 1: to believe about ourselves based on what happened, and the

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Speaker 1: belief oftentimes could be you know, I'm not safe, I'm

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Speaker 1: not okay, I'm stuck, I'm gonna die. Now, the client

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Speaker 1: may into my office. Of course, we know that narrative

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Speaker 1: is not true, but they're still living with that narrative

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Speaker 1: that keeps them very hyper vigilant. That could keep them

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Speaker 1: from getting back into a car again or um, just

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Speaker 1: not wanting to drive. So the E M B R

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Speaker 1: process would would take a client essentially back to that

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Speaker 1: event and work hard to change the narrative. UM. And

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Speaker 1: you go back to the event, to the event with

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Speaker 1: valateral simulation, asking a client to close their eyes, uh,

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Speaker 1: asking them to think about what the worst part of

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Speaker 1: that event was. While they're closing their eyes, Uh, it

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Speaker 1: just appears on the client, But I will ask that

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Speaker 1: they would talk to me through what's going on. For example,

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Speaker 1: a client may say, I see the red light UM

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Speaker 1: changing and and you know, I don't want to be there,

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Speaker 1: don't want to get out. UM. So what I would

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Speaker 1: do as a therapist is it's almost kind of whole

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Speaker 1: vaccine and have the client sitting on my couch. Imagine

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Speaker 1: going back to the client that was driving the car.

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Speaker 1: Does it make sense what I'm saying? So kind of

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Speaker 1: going back to that moment, going back to that moment

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Speaker 1: while you're still being bilaterally stimulated, and asking the client,

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Speaker 1: you know what is it you would like to say

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Speaker 1: right now, and without prompting, most clients are able to say,

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Speaker 1: you know, you're gonna be okay. Uh, You're gonna make

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Speaker 1: it through. It's not gonna be good, uh, at the

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Speaker 1: same time, you're gonna make it through. So with the

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Speaker 1: bilateral stimulation, now the body and the brain is buying

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Speaker 1: into the narrative that I'm safe. I'm gonna be okay,

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Speaker 1: not coming out unscathed, but still safe. I survived this

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Speaker 1: into it, and the bilateral stimulation helps the client to

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Speaker 1: take on that new belief thereby releasing some of the

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Speaker 1: anxiety that's associated with it prior to an M d

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Speaker 1: R session. Okay, So it sounds like maybe like your

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Speaker 1: first couple of sessions are really kind of getting a

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Speaker 1: lot out of the background information about like setting the

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Speaker 1: scene for the trauma so that you can then use

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Speaker 1: that in your E M d R sessions. Absolutely and

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Speaker 1: setting the scene forward. And in this day and time, Joey,

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Speaker 1: you have you have people with a lot of complex

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Speaker 1: trauma and and it's not uncommon to realize I was

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Speaker 1: in that car wreck and I was unsafe, but now

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Speaker 1: I also remember there was another time in my life

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Speaker 1: that I felt the same way. So, uh, it's very

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Speaker 1: common to discover other traumas coming out of just one

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Speaker 1: session and the whole narrative associated with what had happened,

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Speaker 1: possibly long before the car accident. Now, there's some research

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Speaker 1: that shows that one em d R session can be

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Speaker 1: equivalent till about you know, to about five talk therapy sessions.

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Speaker 1: UM in one of them, and there was some research

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Speaker 1: that they would be equivalent to twelve talk therapy sessions,

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Speaker 1: especially dealing with with veterans of a post traumatic stress disorder.

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Speaker 1: Just kind of the relief that you get out of

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Speaker 1: one of those sessions. It encourages clients to come up

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Speaker 1: really with their own insights and their own narratives without

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Speaker 1: being prompted by the clinicians. Um, if I fall and

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Speaker 1: break my arm, they're gonna take me to the doctor.

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Speaker 1: The doctor will set my arm in a cast, and

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Speaker 1: as long as it's supported, our creator has given our

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Speaker 1: body everything it needs to heal, the bone will go

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Speaker 1: back stronger than ever. E m b R is kind

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Speaker 1: of like taking the brain and setting it correctly around

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Speaker 1: what happened, and so then the thinking goes in an

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Speaker 1: area that's helpful and not an area that's maladaptive. It's

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Speaker 1: sets it correctly and the brain has the potential to heal,

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Speaker 1: just like any bone in our bodies. It just has

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Speaker 1: to be said correctly. Wow, that's a really powerful analogy, Kelly.

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Speaker 1: I appreciate that. Yeah, yeah, so you mentioned um, and

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Speaker 1: I would imagine I don't know how early in a

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Speaker 1: session this would happen. When you said if they could

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Speaker 1: go back to that moment, like right at the red light,

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Speaker 1: they would be telling themselves, Um, you're gonna be okay.

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Speaker 1: I would imagine that doesn't happen. And like the first

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Speaker 1: session when you are using e M d R, you know,

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Speaker 1: and I will say this if I can digress just

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Speaker 1: a little bit. You know, in the first session, there's

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Speaker 1: there's just a tool you can use with E M

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Speaker 1: d are called creating a calm safe place. So with

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Speaker 1: by being bi laterally stimulating, you help the client to

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Speaker 1: create a place that is calm and safe that's only

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Speaker 1: for them, and you talk them through moments of that

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Speaker 1: using E M d R. So let's say if I

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Speaker 1: asked them to go to the red light, if that's

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Speaker 1: too much for you, I will say, remember we created

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Speaker 1: the calm, safe place. It just depends on the amount

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Speaker 1: of emotional resourcing the person has, UH that a clinician

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Speaker 1: would have to to assess to see if they are

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Speaker 1: ready for a quote unquote red light sating. So you're

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Speaker 1: exactly right. The assessment important. It depends on the emotional

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Speaker 1: resourcing of somebody if they're equipped enough to be able

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Speaker 1: to handle a thing like that. So depending on the resourcing,

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Speaker 1: you know, they could be ready during the first session

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Speaker 1: and then maybe not. But you get that in the

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Speaker 1: history taken part part of before you start. Okay, So

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Speaker 1: so those assessment sessions really do more than just get

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Speaker 1: like the background of the trauma. They also talk about

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Speaker 1: um like what the person has been doing the cope

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Speaker 1: with the trauma, like how ready are they for this

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Speaker 1: intense type of experience? Absolutely absolutely, you're exactly right. And

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Speaker 1: and and sometimes certain medications will affect how effective you know,

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Speaker 1: e M d R can be. You know, most of

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Speaker 1: the time, UH, ben zos and and and opiates uh

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Speaker 1: work against the whole process because you know that's supposed

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Speaker 1: to relax you. You're not supposed to you know, be heightened.

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Speaker 1: But there are points of e M d R UH

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Speaker 1: that can be very heightened, and if you're on certain medications,

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Speaker 1: you can't quite get to where it is you need

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Speaker 1: to be in order for the process to even be worthwhile.

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Speaker 1: All Right, So I've had people, you know, in the

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Speaker 1: hospital that I worked with that I go back to

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Speaker 1: the position, how far can we cut back on this

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Speaker 1: medication before we even try this process, because you would

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Speaker 1: hate to re re traumatize somebody, right, So I want

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Speaker 1: to go back to something that you pointed out that

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Speaker 1: I find really interesting. So you mentioned that it's been

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Speaker 1: your experience and some of your E M d R

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Speaker 1: work that one trauma will then unearth these other traumas.

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Speaker 1: So I'm curious, how then you begin working with like

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Speaker 1: multiple traumas through the E M d R sessions. Well,

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Speaker 1: we do. It's a very good question, Joy. We assess

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Speaker 1: um we asked for a such level based on a

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Speaker 1: trauma and such s u d S. It stands for

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Speaker 1: a subjective unit of distress um. And so when the

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Speaker 1: scale of zero to ten, we'll say, how bad when

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Speaker 1: you think about this event today, how badly does it

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Speaker 1: bother youut and it bothers me a lot. Zero doesn't

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Speaker 1: bother me at all. Personal if a SUDGE is five

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Speaker 1: or above, I feel like that's active trauma and it's

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Speaker 1: probably affecting your life today. So the events that you

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Speaker 1: you know, if one trauma on earthed another one, I'll

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Speaker 1: assess and I'll get a SUDGE level. Uh. And if

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Speaker 1: that the stretch level is high, then that's something that

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Speaker 1: we need to work on. We need to process. Now

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Speaker 1: something I do with my clients and my outpatient office.

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Speaker 1: I'll do what's called an envelope system. When I believe

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Speaker 1: that there are multiple traumas, and what that is is

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Speaker 1: I ask clients to get an index card. Just give

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Speaker 1: that event in your life a title, write that title down,

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Speaker 1: put an envelope, and seal it. We don't open the

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Speaker 1: envelope until you come in my office, so that means

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Speaker 1: I'm not ignoring it. I know exactly where it is. Uh.

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Speaker 1: When it's time to deal with it, that's when I

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Speaker 1: take it to session. Because most people with PTSD are

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Speaker 1: very afraid with multiple traumas of losing control. So sometimes

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Speaker 1: the envelope system give them, gives them a sense of control. All. Now,

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Speaker 1: each title that they name an event, I asked for

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Speaker 1: a SUDGE level and people can come to work on

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Speaker 1: a correct, But I'll look at a sudge level that

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Speaker 1: happened twelve years ago and this thing is still at

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Speaker 1: a ten. So it's like, okay, whoa that this holds

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Speaker 1: a lot of weight right now, um, and we start

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Speaker 1: the processing from from that point. Okay, okay, got you?

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Speaker 1: So you mentioned that, um, they would hold it until

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Speaker 1: they come to your office. Is there a place that

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Speaker 1: this is the E M d R not done in

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Speaker 1: your office? It is done in my office, you know.

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Speaker 1: But the point that I I give people the assignment,

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Speaker 1: you know, just to say that I'm not ignoring it.

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Speaker 1: I'm not forgetting it. I wrote it down for Kelly.

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Speaker 1: It's on my dresser. I can't wait to take these

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Speaker 1: to her office, you know. So I'm not asking you

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Speaker 1: to deal with it at home or talk to your

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Speaker 1: spouse or your kids about it. You know, we got

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Speaker 1: it on paper, it's sealed and all of the E

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Speaker 1: M b R. You know that I do outpatient takes

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Speaker 1: place in my office unless I'm seeing patients in a hospital,

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Speaker 1: but often in my office if I'm working on one

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Speaker 1: thing and I assess that there several others. And that

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Speaker 1: is the case. Joy with a lot of African Americans

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Speaker 1: several others meaning a theme of traumatic experiences. Um that

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Speaker 1: that stand out. Um, they really do favor and like

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Speaker 1: the whole envelope system. Mm hmm, yeah, I can imagine

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Speaker 1: that does feel a little, um like comforting, like they

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Speaker 1: can you know, kind of contain it so to speak. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so you mentioned, um, you know that you found that

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Speaker 1: particularly with African Americans, they find that confront comforting. UM.

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Speaker 1: And I'm wondering if there are any special considerations related

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Speaker 1: to e m d R when using with the with

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Speaker 1: the black community. UM. You know, I think the thing uh,

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Speaker 1: prior to getting to we want to do the m

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Speaker 1: d R is convincing the African American community that what

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Speaker 1: you're dealing with is trauma, is PTS sting. You know, Um,

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Speaker 1: we asked people out a lot of times, you know,

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Speaker 1: what's wrong with you? Where people may ask what's wrong

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Speaker 1: with me? When the correct question is what happened to me?

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Speaker 1: What happened to you? And it's getting you know, African

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Speaker 1: Americans to understand that things that happened to them things

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Speaker 1: that happened to us. Uh. Maybe uh they were not

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Speaker 1: healthy and maybe they were not intended to be harmful,

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Speaker 1: but they were, So it's just kind of wrapping my

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Speaker 1: mind around that this really is an issue and this

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Speaker 1: is something that really has affected me. Um. Once there's

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Speaker 1: a buying in that here's something that I need to

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Speaker 1: work on because a big part of it, to Joe

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Speaker 1: is establishing trust. And you know, I have to earn

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Speaker 1: my way, in my opinion, especially with African Americans, into

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Speaker 1: doing something like E M d R. Because the first

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Speaker 1: thing they asked, okay is this him knows is what

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Speaker 1: does this mean? But earning my way into that, but

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Speaker 1: getting them to understand that what's going on with me

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Speaker 1: is unresolved trauma that eve be our process then becomes

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Speaker 1: a little easier because it is a very spiritual process.

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Speaker 1: And one thing I use with African Americans, um they

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Speaker 1: are are are quick to go back to. For example, UM,

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Speaker 1: I asked them if if you were sexually used as

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Speaker 1: a little girl, who would you like to take back

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Speaker 1: to help rescue that little girl? Why the bilateral stimulation

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Speaker 1: is going on? You know, it's very common for them

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Speaker 1: to say, I want to take God back, I want

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Speaker 1: to take Jesus back, my big Mama back, I want

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Speaker 1: to take those So to allow them to do that

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Speaker 1: and for them to become um, tearful around that in

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Speaker 1: a good way. It they buy into the process a

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Speaker 1: lot more, um, if I'm being clear what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: And I know in some previous conversations before we started recording,

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Speaker 1: you talked about the fact that E M d R

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Speaker 1: can be really helpful because it allows you to get

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Speaker 1: to a place that sometimes the words can't UM. And

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Speaker 1: I think that that would be particularly helpful for a

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Speaker 1: lot of black women because there there does tend to

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Speaker 1: be like a guard there in wanting to share emotions.

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Speaker 1: So if we're getting at it in a different way, um,

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Speaker 1: then it kind of opens up the space for the

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Speaker 1: words to follow. You're exactly right. Uh. And And here's

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Speaker 1: the thing and doing. You know, when you talk about

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Speaker 1: unresolved trauma, some of the events around what happened to

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Speaker 1: us can be really shaming. What I like about E

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Speaker 1: M d R is that it takes an element out

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Speaker 1: of it because as the clinician, I don't have to

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Speaker 1: know the details of what happened and how many times

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Speaker 1: and where you were, and that's not nearly as important

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Speaker 1: to me. What I'm looking for is that belief that

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Speaker 1: you have about yourself because of what happened. That's the

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Speaker 1: only thing I'm really concerned about because that's really the

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Speaker 1: thing um that's kind of reaking havoc, this belief that

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Speaker 1: you have about yourself based on what happened. So E

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Speaker 1: M b R helps to uh go back and change

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Speaker 1: that narrative real aizing that I was actually strong because

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Speaker 1: I survived that. So I can take off the layer

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Speaker 1: that I'm unworthy and I'm not good enough. Um, so

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Speaker 1: you look at the sun's going down that when I

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Speaker 1: think about the situation now, I'm not at a ten.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'm at about it too. It's things, but

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Speaker 1: I can handle it a whole lot better. And when

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Speaker 1: people come with you know, sexual trauma, that their fear

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Speaker 1: is that you're gonna force me to talk about it.

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Speaker 1: If somebody wants to talk, I'm not gonna shut them down.

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Speaker 1: But that's not the expectation. Okay. So I can imagine, Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, in these sessions that you're bringing up a lot,

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Speaker 1: there's likely even if it didn't start with the motion,

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Speaker 1: there may be a lot of emotion um kind of

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Speaker 1: coming out of it. So I'm wondering, like what kinds

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Speaker 1: of like homework or like what kinds of exercises are

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Speaker 1: grounding kinds of things go along with like the work

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Speaker 1: that goes on in your office. I do give the

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Speaker 1: assignment of letter right into the part of you that UM,

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Speaker 1: that endured that trauma. Uh and and and the hope

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Speaker 1: is what I'm looking for is is that the person

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Speaker 1: that's in my office or after the therapy, that we've

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Speaker 1: invoked a little bit more compassion, because it's amazing when

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Speaker 1: we come out of trauma, we're so upset with ourselves

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Speaker 1: and we beat ourselves up and expect ourselves to heal

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Speaker 1: all at the same time. Uh and and that just

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Speaker 1: kind of doesn't work. It exacerbates even more trauma. Actually,

404
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Speaker 1: But the homework assignment of definitely UM writing that letter

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Speaker 1: and and and giving them permission to talk from the

406
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Speaker 1: space of the trauma, meaning you know, what does that

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Speaker 1: eight year old girl have to say today to afford

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Speaker 1: a year old You know, often time eight year olds

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Speaker 1: thank you for forgiving me, for realizing and it really

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Speaker 1: wasn't my fault. And that's where the grounding comes in. UM.

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Speaker 1: After the session is over, and sometimes even during the session.

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Speaker 1: You know, every patient, every session is different, but not

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Speaker 1: only grounding the whole integration process of it. Integration meaning

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Speaker 1: the D and E M B are desensitize it. Let's

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Speaker 1: take the sting out because I did survive, and I

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Speaker 1: am Okay, now we're gonna reprocess this and realize just

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Speaker 1: how strong I actually was to even make it through

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Speaker 1: that situation. So the letter writing helps with that. So

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Speaker 1: it sounds like, um, you don't use like the bilateral

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Speaker 1: stimulation necessarily in every session. Like a lot of what

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Speaker 1: you're talking about is like narrative and like you know,

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Speaker 1: cognitive restructuring in some ways. So it's exactly right. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So there's also a lot of like talking going on

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Speaker 1: that don't involve the stimulation. Yes, you are exactly right.

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Speaker 1: The bilateral stimulation with creating the rim sleep. It helps

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Speaker 1: to get through the painful parts of the situation. You know,

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Speaker 1: sometimes when I see a client is really struggling, a

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Speaker 1: really cheerful and clinching. As I said, there are different

429
00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:01,000
Speaker 1: speeds and various intensities on the tappers that I use,

430
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:04,320
Speaker 1: so I'll turn them up just a little in order

431
00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:06,360
Speaker 1: to kind of make it over that you know, make

432
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:08,639
Speaker 1: it over that hump. And there are times joy that

433
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:11,200
Speaker 1: I've turned them down and the clients said, no, turn

434
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:14,880
Speaker 1: it back up. Uh, you know to you know, I'm

435
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:16,640
Speaker 1: in this place. I want to process that. I want

436
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,080
Speaker 1: to go ahead and get through. But you're exactly right.

437
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 1: The biletal stimulation is not necessarily used through every setting,

438
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:27,840
Speaker 1: you know, every session regarding that. Okay, And is there

439
00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:30,440
Speaker 1: a part of this UM that a client would try

440
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:33,040
Speaker 1: to do at home? Like could a client induce this

441
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:36,120
Speaker 1: for themselves? Well, that's the first thing I say. Please,

442
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:39,399
Speaker 1: don't go home tapping on my body. Go home and

443
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 1: tell people close your eyes. Let me shure you what

444
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:46,240
Speaker 1: I learned from telling UM. There are people that can

445
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:49,679
Speaker 1: order their own uh tappers, but you have to give

446
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 1: a lot of uh, a lot of paperwork into how

447
00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:56,439
Speaker 1: much E M D are you've actually had. You know,

448
00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:58,879
Speaker 1: another therapist has to know that this is what you're doing.

449
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:03,200
Speaker 1: What I have encouraged clients to do is to kind

450
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:06,159
Speaker 1: of create their own tapping when I do the calm

451
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:09,639
Speaker 1: safe place element that you could help to enhance a

452
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:12,800
Speaker 1: safe place for you. And it's really not tapping joy

453
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:16,480
Speaker 1: because we bilaterally stimulate all the time, we rock side

454
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 1: to side. You know that that's what that is you know,

455
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:23,800
Speaker 1: really you're talking about self soothing. Absolutely, self soothing. We sweat,

456
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:26,639
Speaker 1: so that's the only thing that I would encourage. But

457
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:29,480
Speaker 1: but not with tappers. And if um, you know, a

458
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:32,760
Speaker 1: lay person tried to order tappers, now they have a

459
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:35,880
Speaker 1: lot of questions to ask you before they send them

460
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:37,399
Speaker 1: to you. You have to have a lot of proof

461
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:39,240
Speaker 1: of how much even n B are you've had, and

462
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 1: like I said, those type things, but self soothing, you

463
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 1: absolutely encourage that and I do that a lot. Okay, okay,

464
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:49,239
Speaker 1: So you already talked a little bit about UM like

465
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:52,960
Speaker 1: how you see the SuDS scores go down, um, you know,

466
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:56,240
Speaker 1: between sessions. But can you also talk about any other

467
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:58,960
Speaker 1: improvements that you see kind of throughout the course of

468
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:01,399
Speaker 1: treatment with E M. You are, yes, you know, I

469
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:03,800
Speaker 1: think coming out of trauma, there are four behaviors that

470
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:07,480
Speaker 1: that people lean to in order to uh, in order

471
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 1: to survive, fight, flight, freezing. The piece you know, fight

472
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 1: is that being angry and defensive. Flight. A lot of

473
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 1: times it's being suicidal drugs and alcohol. Most people that

474
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 1: are suicidal, I don't think they want to die, They

475
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:22,640
Speaker 1: just want to stop hurting. People want to get their pain,

476
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:25,959
Speaker 1: not their life. Drugs and alcohol is flight behavior. They

477
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:27,640
Speaker 1: get drunk, they get high. You don't have to feel

478
00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:31,480
Speaker 1: any pain, freeze, it's just kind of numb. You're checked

479
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 1: out and a piece is becoming that people please. You're

480
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:37,680
Speaker 1: to the point of even being abused. Often those four

481
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 1: behaviors have you know, they try to take care of

482
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:43,760
Speaker 1: you coming out of the m d are. A lot

483
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 1: of times people will realize I don't use those behaviors

484
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:50,920
Speaker 1: and as much as I used to or amusing them

485
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:55,359
Speaker 1: now with the right people. So that's a marker for me.

486
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 1: Is a clinician that I look for. You know, what

487
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:02,640
Speaker 1: has your fight behavior like, uh, you know, your need

488
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:04,960
Speaker 1: to please so that people won't hurt your leave you.

489
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:07,960
Speaker 1: What has that looked like? How are you gauging that? Um?

490
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:11,960
Speaker 1: And that's exactly what I look for. Just behaviorally, Um,

491
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 1: how has therapy manifested you know therapy to me, the

492
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:18,480
Speaker 1: work is never in your office, is outside of your office?

493
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 1: You know, how does that enhance the quality of life?

494
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:25,080
Speaker 1: So that's exactly what I look for and have clients

495
00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:29,320
Speaker 1: just report that back to me, because unprocessed trauma just

496
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:33,240
Speaker 1: leaves you hyper vigilant. You're waiting on that next hit

497
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:35,800
Speaker 1: to the point that you sabotage it or you even

498
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:39,440
Speaker 1: cause it all in an attempt to protect yourself, but

499
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:43,320
Speaker 1: it ends up causing new traumas if that's not calmed down.

500
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 1: And the E M b R helps to calm that down.

501
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:50,280
Speaker 1: Got I was not aware of the appease reaction, Kelly,

502
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:52,520
Speaker 1: so I I've learned so much to just hear you

503
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:56,040
Speaker 1: talk um, but the appease reaction was a new one

504
00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 1: for me and and definitely helps to kind of bring

505
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,240
Speaker 1: to light, you know something when we hear about people

506
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:05,200
Speaker 1: um kind of having repeated traumas and the point that

507
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 1: you mentioned about UM kind of giving um like ending

508
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:13,840
Speaker 1: up maybe in continuing abusive relationships because maybe they are

509
00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:17,920
Speaker 1: trying to appease within lead to multiple traumas and joy.

510
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 1: That is the biggest one for African American women, Oh god,

511
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:24,400
Speaker 1: that is the biggest one that appeas and that appease

512
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:27,240
Speaker 1: behavior is you know, you want my money and my mind,

513
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:29,480
Speaker 1: my body, what you want whatever, you won't outdo it.

514
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 1: Just don't leave me and just don't hurt me. You know,

515
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 1: that's the biggest one for us. And so one of

516
00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:38,400
Speaker 1: my new favorite quotes about that we set ourselves on

517
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 1: fire to keep other people warm, not realizing I am

518
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:45,360
Speaker 1: now working on a new trauma because I'm just trying

519
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:47,120
Speaker 1: to get them not to leave me and not to

520
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:50,360
Speaker 1: hurt me. And it's survival. We know how to survive,

521
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:53,719
Speaker 1: we don't know how to thrive. Yeah, you know, it's

522
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:56,360
Speaker 1: it's it's survival. But for black women that appease, we're

523
00:29:56,400 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 1: either angry or we are appeasing total opposites, you know,

524
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 1: you know, the polarities between that I'm fighting, angry or

525
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 1: trying my best to please you, and and all of

526
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:14,080
Speaker 1: that is surviving, trying not to relive the impact of

527
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 1: whatever that trauma was, uh, you know, and then again

528
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:20,800
Speaker 1: working on new traumas. And they're mad at myself because

529
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:24,000
Speaker 1: why do I keep going back to this situation that doesn't,

530
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 1: you know, benefit me? But I think all of it

531
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 1: is a part of just unresolved trauma and being educated

532
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 1: about this is what I'm doing and why. Yeah, those

533
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 1: are very good points, Kelly. So what resources can you

534
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 1: give us for anybody who wants to maybe learn more

535
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:42,120
Speaker 1: about E N d R. And I also want you

536
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:44,840
Speaker 1: to maybe talk about um, like if somebody listens to

537
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 1: this episode and thinks, Oh, that's something that I really

538
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:50,080
Speaker 1: would like to try. Um. Is there some kind of

539
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 1: like directory or national organization where people can find like

540
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:57,040
Speaker 1: E M d R trained therapists. Yes, there is, uh

541
00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:02,200
Speaker 1: www dot Indrea, E M d R I a dot

542
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 1: com or just google E M d R and whoever

543
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:08,920
Speaker 1: you go to this train and M d are. They

544
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 1: need to be a level to train E M b R. Uh,

545
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:14,760
Speaker 1: that's the highest level that you can go. But you

546
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 1: want to be a level to train m d R.

547
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:21,200
Speaker 1: Level one is the person that's getting trained that can

548
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 1: do a little bit of the calm safe place but

549
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 1: not necessarily reprocessing the trauma. UM. So googling that you

550
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:33,200
Speaker 1: can find a level to train nd R and any

551
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 1: clinicians that that that would like to use it UM

552
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 1: as a tool. I definitely think it's beneficial because the

553
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:42,520
Speaker 1: foundational parts of the m d are even if you

554
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:47,200
Speaker 1: don't do the balato stimulation, you see, the foundational component

555
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:49,760
Speaker 1: is very important to be able to do talk therapy

556
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:52,840
Speaker 1: in my opinion, UM. And that same information can be

557
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 1: found on the E M d R website. The same

558
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 1: information can be found UM. And you know, the more

559
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:01,840
Speaker 1: you use it, you kind of tweak it to get

560
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 1: it to your personality and the population of people that

561
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:08,440
Speaker 1: you use. You know, the more you use it with anything,

562
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:10,880
Speaker 1: the sharper you get with being able to use it.

563
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:14,800
Speaker 1: It is definitely my go to UM. I like using

564
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:17,520
Speaker 1: it a lot, very very effective. Let me say this

565
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:21,160
Speaker 1: with children, very effective. With children. It doesn't take them

566
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 1: a long time to process. The reason is because they

567
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:27,440
Speaker 1: don't have a lot of memory M so they go

568
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 1: directly to what that event is. Most of my adult

569
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:34,600
Speaker 1: patients often talk about how much better they would be

570
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 1: if they had gotten the therapy at twelve thirteen, fourteen fifteen,

571
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:40,240
Speaker 1: like so many different decisions they probably would have made,

572
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 1: because it would have been able to just kind of

573
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:46,440
Speaker 1: pluck up that you know, that that template that that's

574
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:51,640
Speaker 1: been so negative. So it's very very very effective with

575
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:55,840
Speaker 1: children as well. So also any resources like you know,

576
00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 1: for maybe UM clients who are interested in learning more

577
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:02,240
Speaker 1: about E M d R and how it can be useful.

578
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:07,960
Speaker 1: Books that you really like, I love. Francine Shapiro was

579
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 1: a founder of E M d R. UM. She so

580
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 1: everything you read by Francine Shapiro. Uh. She was a

581
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:16,720
Speaker 1: founder of of E M DR. She discovered it in

582
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:21,600
Speaker 1: nine um she um. I'm so sorry, I can't think

583
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:24,520
Speaker 1: of the title, but uh, I think the Body Keeps

584
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 1: the Score is a is one that clinicians go to

585
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:32,480
Speaker 1: a lot um the unspoken voice in an unspoken voice

586
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:36,040
Speaker 1: by by Dr Peter Levine that he talks about trauma.

587
00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 1: And I heard Dr Levine speak, if I may say

588
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:42,960
Speaker 1: this joy at a trauma conference, and he showed pictures

589
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:45,840
Speaker 1: of the nine eleven building, Uh, nine eleven when that

590
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:48,160
Speaker 1: happened in our country, and he kind of said, you

591
00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:50,400
Speaker 1: see the people in the picture that are running, that

592
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:55,400
Speaker 1: are moving, they're probably going to be okay. PTSD and

593
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 1: trauma is all about this feeling of being stuck. So

594
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:03,280
Speaker 1: the MBR process helps to get you un stuff that

595
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:07,680
Speaker 1: makes sense, you know. So I often think about that

596
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:10,880
Speaker 1: because most people with PTSD and traumas is feeling up trapped,

597
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:13,319
Speaker 1: and so Peter Levini talks about that a lot in

598
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:16,920
Speaker 1: his book in an unspoken voice of of uh, you

599
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:18,719
Speaker 1: know what that looks like. But the Body Keeps the

600
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:21,759
Speaker 1: Score is probably one of the leading ones. Uh, and

601
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:24,640
Speaker 1: talking about just trauma and PTSD and some of the

602
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:28,480
Speaker 1: benefits of the n B are okay, and you know,

603
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:31,880
Speaker 1: you can google and YouTube, you know, message boards, Uh,

604
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:35,600
Speaker 1: you know, clinicians are are you know doing some awesome

605
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:38,000
Speaker 1: things with it, some awesome things with it. I mean

606
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:41,040
Speaker 1: it's almost a grab bag of learning the foundational part

607
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:43,200
Speaker 1: of it first and then you know, tweaking it to

608
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:45,719
Speaker 1: your practice and of what you're willing to do. I

609
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:48,759
Speaker 1: think everybody, um needs to be trained in it. But

610
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:54,240
Speaker 1: that's just me. There's because it blows the mynth away

611
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:56,040
Speaker 1: that you've got to be in therapy for the rest

612
00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 1: of your life to work on trauma. You know, people

613
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:00,040
Speaker 1: think this has gotta be years of therapy toil to

614
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:03,880
Speaker 1: do this stuff that Memphis going, it goes away. You

615
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:07,800
Speaker 1: don't have to work on it forever, you know, six

616
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:10,279
Speaker 1: to eight sessions. That's kind of the you know what

617
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:13,000
Speaker 1: I'm able to do with clients. Whether that's the ballad

618
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:15,040
Speaker 1: of simulation or not. But I definitely see a lot

619
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:17,120
Speaker 1: of movement and E. M. D R helps you jump

620
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:21,520
Speaker 1: start that got you so, Kelly. I also want you

621
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 1: to talk to us more about your practice, UM and

622
00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:27,720
Speaker 1: where we can find you online in any social media

623
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:31,400
Speaker 1: handles you want to share. Okay, I am in Memphis, Tennessee.

624
00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:34,440
Speaker 1: Uh love being in Memphis and I'm located in Midtown.

625
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:38,880
Speaker 1: My practice is the Mental and Emotional Resource Center incorporated

626
00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:43,040
Speaker 1: UH in the r C I Mercy. I've been here

627
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 1: since two thousand and eleven. UM social media, I do

628
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:52,120
Speaker 1: have a UH YouTube channel that's called Life Management with

629
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:56,040
Speaker 1: Kelly with is the W and the slash and Kelly

630
00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:59,040
Speaker 1: is k E L L I And I'm talking about

631
00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:03,640
Speaker 1: my work and trying when PTSD on YouTube. UM. I

632
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 1: am contracted at the local behavior Health hospital here in

633
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:11,120
Speaker 1: Memphis and the director of grief and trauma therapy there. UM.

634
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 1: They've only had two directors and the first one was

635
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:16,120
Speaker 1: there about nineteen years and I trained with her for

636
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:18,480
Speaker 1: five of those and when she left, I'm number two.

637
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:22,880
Speaker 1: Uh so I UM most people, if they see me

638
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:25,799
Speaker 1: in the hospital, many of them will follow me outside

639
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:28,520
Speaker 1: of the hospital. You know. In the city, I'm known

640
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:32,040
Speaker 1: for my work with PTSD and trauma, so that's where

641
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:34,759
Speaker 1: a lot of my referral sources. UH, That's where they

642
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:37,320
Speaker 1: come from. And as I said, I do this weekend,

643
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:40,080
Speaker 1: week out with child and adolescent, whether it's in the hospital,

644
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:44,799
Speaker 1: in my office geriatric adult. I use this skill a lot.

645
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:49,760
Speaker 1: So sometimes people say, uh, and it's may sound arrogant.

646
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 1: Is there anybody you know that as good as you

647
00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:55,600
Speaker 1: with this type therapy? And I often say joy, there

648
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:58,640
Speaker 1: are not many Clementian clinicians in this city that have

649
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:01,160
Speaker 1: as much experience as I have because I do it

650
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:04,839
Speaker 1: week in and week out with various populations, and so

651
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:08,280
Speaker 1: the more you do it UM, the sharper you get

652
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:11,480
Speaker 1: with it UM. So I am a clinical supervisor now

653
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:16,520
Speaker 1: and improved clinical supervisor. I do have UM two supervisors

654
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:20,480
Speaker 1: that are training trauma that are shadowing me UM at

655
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:22,719
Speaker 1: the hospital and even in my practice, and I'm so

656
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:25,840
Speaker 1: excited with what they will also be able to do

657
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:32,080
Speaker 1: with learning this tool because I can see everybody, right,

658
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:36,600
Speaker 1: I can't, but again I I do enjoy it. So

659
00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:38,839
Speaker 1: I'm found in Memphis. I don't know if you want

660
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:41,759
Speaker 1: my website or yeah, it'll be included in the show notes,

661
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:44,799
Speaker 1: which you can share it now. Okay. It is www.

662
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:50,080
Speaker 1: Dot Mercy Memphis dot org UM that just talks about

663
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:52,719
Speaker 1: how to get to me and things that I've done

664
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:56,840
Speaker 1: in the community. Perfect. Well, thank you so much for

665
00:37:56,880 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 1: sharing all of this information with us today, Kelly. I definitely,

666
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:02,520
Speaker 1: like said, learned quite a bit. Thank you. For having

667
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:07,480
Speaker 1: me Jo, You're You're welcome. I was very excited to

668
00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:09,960
Speaker 1: have Kelly on our episode today because E. M. D

669
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:12,840
Speaker 1: R Is new to me as well, so I learned

670
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:15,719
Speaker 1: just as much from the conversation probably as you did.

671
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:19,040
Speaker 1: You can find all of the information that Kelly shared,

672
00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:21,960
Speaker 1: as well as more information about Kelly in the show notes.

673
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:24,719
Speaker 1: You can find those at Therapy for Black Girls dot

674
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:30,200
Speaker 1: com backslash session. As a reminder, if you're looking for

675
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:32,920
Speaker 1: a therapist in your area, be sure to check out

676
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:36,719
Speaker 1: the directory at Therapy for Black Girls dot com backslash

677
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:40,319
Speaker 1: directory and remember that new therapists are being added all

678
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:42,480
Speaker 1: the time, so if you haven't checked in a while,

679
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 1: then make sure to check it out again today. And

680
00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:48,120
Speaker 1: please make sure to share today's episode with a friend

681
00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:50,560
Speaker 1: who hasn't heard the show, and then let me know

682
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:53,200
Speaker 1: what you thought about the episode. Over on social media,

683
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:58,360
Speaker 1: the hashtag is tv G in session. You can find

684
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:02,200
Speaker 1: us on Twitter at Therapy four the number four be girls,

685
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:05,120
Speaker 1: and you can find us on Instagram and Facebook at

686
00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:08,640
Speaker 1: Therapy for Black Girls. And I'm just remembering, we haven't

687
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:10,719
Speaker 1: had any on the porch questions in a while, so

688
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:13,320
Speaker 1: don't be shy if you have a situation that you

689
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:16,680
Speaker 1: want some feedback about, or have some general mental health questions,

690
00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:19,880
Speaker 1: make sure to send those over to podcasts at Therapy

691
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:23,680
Speaker 1: for Black Girls dot com. I hope that each of

692
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:26,080
Speaker 1: you have an incredible rest of your week, and I'm

693
00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:28,680
Speaker 1: looking forward to continue in this conversation with you all

694
00:39:28,840 --> 00:40:18,880
Speaker 1: real soon. Take good care actor a doctor, actor or